Week Ending May 24, 1997

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:41:04 +1000 
From: Steve Clark <nahema@mailbox.uq.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Fuzion Confusion 
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Brad Thurkettle wrote:  
>  
> That is surprising most old Hero players have gone to length in deriding 
> the new 'look'. Stuff about nipples visible, background graphics and layout 
> unlike any previous Hero material. 
>  
 
Hey! I'm a old hero player and I LIKE VISIBLE NIPPLES! 
 
but maybe I'm just a sicko pervert or something. 
 
Steve 
 
Date: 	Sat, 17 May 1997 20:50:43 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
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Subject: Re: Fuzion Confusion 
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No, just an anatomical realist. :) 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official with the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Sat, 17 May 1997, Steve Clark wrote: 
 
> Brad Thurkettle wrote:  
> > That is surprising most old Hero players have gone to length in deriding 
> > the new 'look'. Stuff about nipples visible, background graphics and layout 
> > unlike any previous Hero material. 
>  
> Hey! I'm a old hero player and I LIKE VISIBLE NIPPLES! 
>  
> but maybe I'm just a sicko pervert or something. 
>  
> Steve 
>  
 
Subject: Re: The Professionals 
Date: Sun, 18 May 97 07:04:55 -0500 
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net> 
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-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
 
	I don't know if you get this locally, or even know about it, but theres a 
cartoon on tv called The Tick.  He faces/allies with all sorts of  concepts 
you could use.  The one that comes to mind immediately is  American Maid. 
 
				Good luck! 
				-Fugazi 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:54:30 -0500 
From: Tim Haas <wabbit@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Help 
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At 08:45 PM 5/13/97 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
>Actually, based on the original question, you might want the RKA to be the 
>major attack since that will cause the focus to lose its abilities. 
>Unfortunately, the focus rules do not tell you how much BODY a focus has, 
>only how much DEF.  In your example of melting a gun, how much BODY would 
>you have to Drain to destroy the gun?  If it is a 2d6 RKA, it has a DEF of 
>3.  The first time you do 4 BODY to the gun it loses one ability, which 
>should be its only ability, the RKA.  (Yes, I know, gun is listed in the 
>Breaking Things rules, but that's a normal gun, what do you do with the 70 
>Active point monstrosity that your High-Tech hero has created?) 
 
  In my campaign, I've made body into something of a figured characteristic. 
For human(oids) I use the formula: 
 
	BODY = (Wt in kg / 12.5) + (Ego/5)  
 
  and allow the player to vary by no more than 3 off of this. Also ALL 
Fractions in the wt figure rd up, only .5 or better rds up in the ego section. 
 
Based on my above formulae most foci have a BODY of 1 with a maximum of 4 
for an incredibly well-built piece (assuming a wt of no more than 12.5 kg). 
Almost all normal guns could be considered well built (street knock off 
excepted). 
 
  What is the Def/Body of a normal gun anyways (my BBB is packed away at 
the moment)? 
 
 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:54:30 -0500 
To: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net&> champ-l@omg.org 
From: Tim Haas <wabbit@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Help 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 15 
 
At 08:45 PM 5/13/97 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
>Actually, based on the original question, you might want the RKA to be the 
>major attack since that will cause the focus to lose its abilities. 
>Unfortunately, the focus rules do not tell you how much BODY a focus has, 
>only how much DEF.  In your example of melting a gun, how much BODY would 
>you have to Drain to destroy the gun?  If it is a 2d6 RKA, it has a DEF of 
>3.  The first time you do 4 BODY to the gun it loses one ability, which 
>should be its only ability, the RKA.  (Yes, I know, gun is listed in the 
>Breaking Things rules, but that's a normal gun, what do you do with the 70 
>Active point monstrosity that your High-Tech hero has created?) 
 
  In my campaign, I've made body into something of a figured characteristic. 
For human(oids) I use the formula: 
 
	BODY = (Wt in kg / 12.5) + (Ego/5)  
 
  and allow the player to vary by no more than 3 off of this. Also ALL 
Fractions in the wt figure rd up, only .5 or better rds up in the ego section. 
 
Based on my above formulae most foci have a BODY of 1 with a maximum of 4 
for an incredibly well-built piece (assuming a wt of no more than 12.5 kg). 
Almost all normal guns could be considered well built (street knock off 
excepted). 
 
  What is the Def/Body of a normal gun anyways (my BBB is packed away at 
the moment)? 
 
 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:54:31 -0500 
From: Tim Haas <wabbit@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Hero Complicated... 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
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At 12:03 AM 5/14/97, John Turner wrote: 
>Our group allows comeliness to affect certain rolls (persuasion, oratory, 
>seduction) as well as Presence Attacks against friendly observers.  Also, 
>in cases where 2 characters have the same speed and dex, the one with the 
>higher COM goes first (the camera focuses on him first... :P ) 
> 
 
FOCLMAO 
 
  I like it.... I think I'll use this one! 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:54:33 -0500 
From: Tim Haas <wabbit@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
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>> Would anatomy class qualify him for find weakness??   ;) 
 
  If it wouldn't I want to know the justification for all those VIPER 
agents having Find Weakness.... Actually I want to know anyways. 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 12:07:08 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: CAN ANYBODY HEAR ME??? 
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hi!! i know this is a wierd queston, but can someone respond to this post  
and tell me how many copies were posted to the list?? i must determine  
wether my system is botched or not. 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:51:23 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: CAN ANYBODY HEAR ME??? 
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ok, thats that problem out of the way, thanks for all your help!! 
 
 
 
btw, has anyone read my ship rules yet?? guess not 
 
on to champions stuff, i have come across a minor quandry in the follower rules. 
the thing is this: shouldn't the psyc lims of the follower be to the detriment of the  
'owner?'   is 'fanatically loyal' really a limitation, considering it actually helps the  
player?   shouldn't it be something like  "disloyal- often chickens out' to be worth  
points??? 
 
if the points come from the player, shouldn't the disadvantages hinder him, or at least  
not help him??? 
 
Kim Foster wrote: 
>  
> At 12:07 PM 5/18/97 -0700, you wrote: 
> >hi!! i know this is a wierd queston, but can someone respond to this post 
> >and tell me how many copies were posted to the list?? i must determine 
> >wether my system is botched or not. 
>  
> I recieved just one copy from the list. 
>  
>         Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
>                         Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu" 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:12:08 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Bludgeon 
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This is the first of a series of posts of characters adapted from GURPS 
Wildcards.  I'm planning on doing... oh... as many of them as interests me 
so if you haven't seen you favorite character yet, just wait.  I'll  post 
my conversion notes when I get around to it, but I haven't really written 
them up into something coherant yet.  Note that these conversions are of 
the 'quick and dirty' variety and as with all character adaptions, YMMV. 
 
BLUDGEON 
(Robert Sievers) 
 
Description: 
Bludgeon is huge, standing about 7' tall and weighing over 300 pounds.  His 
right arm and hand are a malformed mass of muscle and bone.  His fist is 
described as being: "the size and color of a smoked Virginia ham".  Bludgeon's 
face is scared and pockmarked, and he has one blue eye and one red one.  His 
scalp is covered with boils and sores.  Bludgeon's 'ace' power is immense 
physical strength and to be able to absorb tremendous punishment.  As noted in 
his Psych Lims, Bludgeon is aggressive, violent and brutal.  He is the perfect 
thug, especially since he's not all that bright, either. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		38		23 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		20		20 
Body		20		18 
Int		8		-2 
Ego		10		0 
Pre		15		5 
Com		6		-2 
PD		9		2 
ED		6		2 
Spd		3		11 
Rec		11		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		48		0 
Char Total			74 
Power Total			55 
Total Cost			129 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
7	Growth: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 STUN, -1" KB, 7' Tall, 310 lbs 
6	HA: +2d6, 0 END, Right hand only (-1/2) 
9	Armor: 3 DEF (Thick skin) 
10	Damage Resistance: 1/4 Physical, Resistant, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
 
2	AK: Jokertown 11- 
2	AK: New York City 11- 
3	Interrogation 12- 
1	KS: Mafia 8- 
1	KS: Shadow Fist Society 8- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
5	CSL: +1 HTH 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Haymaker, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	DF: Huge, ugly joker with a deformed right hand/arm 
5	DF: Constant use of foul language 
15	Psych: Bad Tempered, Prone to fits of rage 
15	Psych: Bully, Likes to hurt others 
10	Rep: Violent Thug 11- 
 
(Bludgeon created by George R. R. Martin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:12:39 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Carnifex 
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CARNIFEX 
(William "Billy" Ray) 
 
Description: 
Carnifex is over average height, standing 5'10" and weighs about 165.  His face 
is a little off; the eyes aren't level, his jaw is canted, there is too much 
nose and his chin is lacking a bit.  His costume consists of a white body suit 
with a black hood, gloves and boots.  Carnifex's ace powers include increased 
strength, speed and the ability to regenerate from massive amounts of damage. 
Carnifex is also a master of hand to hand combat, although he hasn't studied any 
formal martial art, he just knows what move to make when he needs to make it. 
Thus, Carnifex's martial maneuvers function both as punches and kicks. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		25		15 
Dex		34		72 
Con		18		16 
Body		20		20 
Int		12		2 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		8		-1 
PD		12		7 
ED		10		6 
Spd		6		16 
Rec		10		2 
End		36		0 
Stun		42		0 
Char Total			181 
Power Total			153 
Total Cost			334 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	Martial Arts: Free-form Mayhem 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Counterstrike  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  7d6 Strike; Must follow successful Block 
4	Fast Strike  +2 OCV  +0 DCV  7d6 Strike 
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  6d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Martial Strike  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  7d6 Strike 
5	Offensive Strike  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  9d6 Strike 
 
20	Damage Resistance: 1/2 Energy, Resistant, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
20	Damage Resistance: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
8	Regeneration: 1 BODY per Minute (-1/4) 
8	Running: +4" (10" total) 
9	Enhanced Perception: +3 PER 
 
3	Perk: Federal Police Powers 
3	Ambidexterity 
3	Breakfall 16- 
5	Deduction 13- 
3	Interrogation 13- 
3	KS: Law 12- 
5	KS: Football 14- 
3	PS: Football Player (DEX) 16- 
2	PS: Dept of Justice Agent 11- 
5	Shadowing 12- 
3	Stealth 16- 
3	Streetwise 13- 
7	Tactics 14- 
2	WF: Small Arms 
10	CSL: +2 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	Berserk: Combat, 8-/14- 
10	DF: Mismatched features 
15	Psych: Overconfident, Likes to fight tough, powerful foes 
15	Psych: Impulsive and Reckless, Tends to act without thinking 
10	Psych: Lecherousness, 'Skirt chaser' 
5	Psych: Neatness freak 
15	Rep: Powerful, dangerous Government Ace 14- 
15	Watched: US Justice Dept, (Mopow, NCI) 14- 
134	Executioner Bonus 
 
(Carnifex created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:13:03 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Chickenhawk 
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CHICKENHAWK 
(Gus Wenninger) 
 
Description: 
Chickenhawk is short, standing only about 5'3", and very light, weighing about 
60 lbs.  He has wings that are formed from flaps of skin between his 
fingerbones, these flaps are anchored at his wrists and ankles.  Hew also has a 
long, barbed tail, dirty clumps of feathers scattered over his body and wattles 
under his chin.  Chickenhawk's main ability is to be able to glide on air 
currents.  He also has very acute vision and can use his feet in place of his 
weak hands. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		5		-5 
Dex		14		12 
Con		10		0 
Body		9		-2 
Int		8		-2 
Ego		10		0 
Pre		8		-2 
Com		2		-4 
PD		2		1 
ED		2		0 
Spd		3		6 
Rec		3		0 
End		20		0 
Stun		17		0 
Char Total			4 
Power Total			48 
Total Cost			52 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
-10	Running: 1" 
8	Gliding: 8" 
6	Enhanced Perception: +3 
6	Telescopic Sight: +4 vs RMod 
5	Extra Limbs: Feet 
 
3	Contact Shadow Fist Society 12- 
6	AK: New York City 15- 
5	Climbing 13- 
1	KS: Shadow Fist Society 8- 
3	Streetwise 11- 
9	Survival 14- 
4	CSL: +2 with Gliding 
2	CSL: +1 OCV with Grab 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	DF: Hideous joker with wings and a tail 
5	Phys: Weighs 60 lbs, +2" to all KB rolls 
15	Phys: Virtual cripple when on the ground; 1" Running and 1/2 DCV 
15	Psych: Likes his food raw and live 
 
(Chickenhawk created by George R. R. Martin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:27:02 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: The Pretender 
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Can anyone suggest some ideas about how to duplicate the effect of the 
Pretender.  I have a few ideas but I'd like to see how others might handle this. 
 
For those who may not be familiar with the character it is a man who can not 
only assume any personality but also any profession.  He can basically be 
any person or profession he wants anytime he wants. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:34:28 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com (Unverified) 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Name needed 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
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At 05:05 PM 5/17/97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>At 09:12 PM 5/7/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote: 
>>>    Somehow, I don't think that a macho, male Irish hero (at least, I 
>>> *assume* that this character is male) would take the name Bain Sidhe (Gaelic 
>>> for "female fairy"). 
>> 
>>But that does bring up a good idea. My faerie lore just shut off, so what's 
>the  
>>Irish equivalent of the Wendigo or the Will o'Wisp? 
> 
>   That one, I don't happen to know... and, judging from the deafening 
>silence, I'm guessing that nobody else on the list knows either. 
>   I got my information above (Bain Sidhe) from "Kingdom of Champions" 
>(which, I might add, I find to be a good resource when I wear my writer's 
>hat as well as when I wear my GM's hat).  Maybe you can find some help there 
>as well. 
>--- 
The Irish Male equivalent of the Wendifo or the Will of the Wisp is the Jack 
O' The Lantern. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: 	Sun, 18 May 1997 12:29:55 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: The Pretender 
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some sort of intelligence based power that lets you learn skills 
instantly?  A sort of skills reflex like the Taskmaster's combat reflex. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Sun, 18 May 1997, Patrick Barden wrote: 
 
> Can anyone suggest some ideas about how to duplicate the effect of the 
> Pretender.  I have a few ideas but I'd like to see how others might handle this. 
>  
> For those who may not be familiar with the character it is a man who can not 
> only assume any personality but also any profession.  He can basically be 
> any person or profession he wants anytime he wants. 
>  
> Patrick B. 
>  
>  
>  
 
Date: 	Sun, 18 May 1997 13:34:14 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org, Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Chickenhawk 
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thanks Michael, keep up the good work.  Have you done 
Fortunato/Turtle/Yeoman?  Maybe we can compare notes on those. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
Date: 	Sun, 18 May 1997 13:39:57 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org, Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
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Looks good Michael.  25 strength is what, 8 times as strong as the average 
guy?  Or thereabouts. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:27:51 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 29 
 
At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can kick.  
 
 
Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
 
:) 
 
 
From: Firelynx16@aol.com 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:31:51 -0400 (EDT) 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: The Pretender 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 28 
 
In a message dated 97-05-18 17:47:20 EDT, you write: 
 
<< Can anyone suggest some ideas about how to duplicate the effect of the 
 Pretender.  I have a few ideas but I'd like to see how others might handle 
this. 
  
 For those who may not be familiar with the character it is a man who can not 
 only assume any personality but also any profession.  He can basically be 
 any person or profession he wants anytime he wants. 
  
 Patrick B. 
  >> 
 
This sounds like a case where a VPP based just on Skills geared toward a 
profession would be allowable.  The personality could be accomplished with 
Acting, Oratory, Disguise (for the body language and facial expressions), and 
maybe even Mimicry or Seduction. 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 02:57:22 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Name needed 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 30 
 
In a message dated 97-05-18 17:55:14 EDT, absga@elbertonga.com (Patrick 
Barden) writes: 
 
> The Irish Male equivalent of the Wendifo or the Will of the Wisp is the 
Jack 
>  O' The Lantern. 
>   
>  Patrick B. 
 
Isn't "Will of the Wisp" Irish?  My sources attribute it to all of the 
british isles. 
 
Jay Albright (not Irish...I'm told I've got a little Manx blood in me.) 
 
Date: 	Sun, 18 May 1997 21:32:56 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: The Pretender 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 31 
 
yes, that was what I was tyring to think of being rusty, no tmultipower 
etc., variable power pool deal.  Well done. :)  That would work fine, can 
grab the skills as he needs them, and some process to keep them too if you 
want, I guess. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Sun, 18 May 1997 Firelynx16@aol.com wrote: 
 
> In a message dated 97-05-18 17:47:20 EDT, you write: 
>  
> << Can anyone suggest some ideas about how to duplicate the effect of the 
>  Pretender.  I have a few ideas but I'd like to see how others might handle 
> this. 
>   
>  For those who may not be familiar with the character it is a man who can not 
>  only assume any personality but also any profession.  He can basically be 
>  any person or profession he wants anytime he wants. 
>   
>  Patrick B. 
>   >> 
>  
> This sounds like a case where a VPP based just on Skills geared toward a 
> profession would be allowable.  The personality could be accomplished with 
> Acting, Oratory, Disguise (for the body language and facial expressions), and 
> maybe even Mimicry or Seduction. 
>  
 
Subject: Re: The Pretender 
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 08:35:23 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 32 
 
On 5/18/97 5:27 PM, Patrick Barden (absga@elbertonga.com) Said: 
 
>Can anyone suggest some ideas about how to duplicate the effect of the 
>Pretender.  I have a few ideas but I'd like to see how others might handle  
>this. 
> 
>For those who may not be familiar with the character it is a man who can not 
>only assume any personality but also any profession.  He can basically be 
>any person or profession he wants anytime he wants. 
 
Buy all the skill enhancers, and some perks & contacts. Buy forgery and  
disguise skills. Oratory & Persuasion would be a good bet. And throw in  
the Cramming Talent bought multiple times, and allow bonuses to it for  
whatever you feel appropriate (extra time, related skills, etc.) and  
maybe, 8-10 overall skill levels. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:21:47 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu 
From: wga@po.cwru.edu (Will Austin) 
Subject: Re: whispering vault 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>Revenant said: 
>        One of the big problems I found is the initiative system - the way 
>(for example) Speed 7 translates to an action on segments 
>2,4,6,7,9,11,12. 
>Not only is it a pain to keep track of when your turn is, but it's a 
>pain 
>to keep track of what segment you're actually up to. 
 
        I've never found this to be true. . .each character sheet has a 
little section where you can mark off the phases your character moves on, 
and (usually) the GM monitors the passing of phases. . .not a pain at all, 
unless you're new to the system. . . 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:47:00 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu 
From: wga@po.cwru.edu (Will Austin) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Bravo, Michael!!  I'd love to see more! 
 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:06:35 -0700 
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: mail.igateway.net ip 206.142.60.2 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: tstatler@igateway.net 
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Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
Stephen B. Mann wrote: 
>  
> > From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
> > What is the Mossad? 
>  
>      Israeli spy agency. Small, but with an impressive reputation. I've 
> heard it referred to as the best in the world. YMMV 
 
As to their reputation: 
 
 After the Israeli atheltes were killed at the Munich olympics (Do I 
have the right one, I'm going from memory), the Mossad vowed revenge. 
 
10 years later, the last terrorist turned himself in to either Israeli 
or Western European police and admitted his crimes. It seems that all 
the others hafd been killed, no matter what safety precautions taken. 
Mossad isn't fast but they ARE lethal. 
 
Tim Statler 
 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:31:45 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Hughes Academy Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, I am going to run a PBEM game of young students in a private school 
that teaches how to safely use powers.  The game will be based on Hero rules 
(but as it is Email, that is less important than it is face to face), and 
will likely follow the once turn per week pattern used by most games.  I 
presently have 6 people interested, and can have more (how many more will 
depend on how complex this gets, for now 10 is a limit I will stay at). 
 
My home page is not yet up, but will be soon, I will post the URL when I get 
it up.  The game information and some pix will be on there for players, and 
I will post the turns there as well. 
 
For basic information, no student can be older than a 12th grader, and none 
should be younger than a 7th grader.  The students can have any background 
that does not involve some sort of history, training, or technology (like 
armor).  The students should, in other words, need to learn with their 
powers, and the powers should be inherent.  This can range from the vanilla 
Mutant to a Vampire, an Alien, a little confused Cyborg, etc etc... as long 
as the character is new to this, needs some help with the powers, and is a teen. 
 
In other words, I want no one like 'M' in the Generation X comic... 
 
Characters are 75 pts + up to 75 pts in disadvantages.  For each 15 points 
of disads over the max, you get a coolness point (which helps your status in 
the school with the other students, more will be explained on this later). 
You also get coolness points for taking some limitations on your powers that 
simluate poor control and difficulty of use (such as activation cost, Skill 
rolls based on a stat, increased END cost, etc).  For each -1/2 of these 
limitations, you get another coolness point. 
 
Coolness points add to your status in the eyes of other students, they act 
as sort of extra Presence only to peers.  Lots of COOL means you are very 
popular, less means you are just known.  Characters can take negative cool 
for extra points, for each 1 cool you are in the red, you get 5 points, but 
you can only go to -5 cool before you implode into a black hole of insecurity. 
 
The Hughes Acadmey has many more students than just the characters, and only 
a handful of them have powers like your characters will.  The Academy is a 
prestigious private school for grades 7-12, and costs quite a bit.  However, 
any student with acedemic promise or unusual powers gets in free, as Gilbert 
Hughes was the sole recipient of Howard Hughes' fortunes. 
 
More will follow, and the Home Page will have all you need on it. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
X-Sender: ghost@softfarm.com 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:34:59 -0500 
From: ghost@softfarm.com (Bryce Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 04:16 PM 5/19/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>On Mon, 19 May 1997, Will Austin wrote: 
> 
>> Bravo, Michael!!  I'd love to see more! 
> 
>Thanks.  I'm mostly done with Captain Trips... can you say "Point 
>Monster"? 
 
If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
 
>BTW: Wildcards has the most incredible extreme'sI've ever seen in 
>character design.  On one hand we have 52 point Chickenhawk, while *all* 
>of Trip's 'friends' are at least 370 points or better.  I also have to 
>deal with such things at 170 Active Point attacks!  (yes, you read that 
>right...)   
 
Only 170?? :) Have you tried Popinjay yet? Just your normal everyday 
heroic-level 
character ... except for a 420 pt. Active Point power. And I actually think 
my version of him may have skimped. 
 
The other interesting thing is DEX, or lack their of.  Most of 
>these guys look to have a DEX of about 18 and a SPD of 4, which means that 
>true stat monsters like Carnifex and Moonchild *really* stand out. 
 
True ... although I've noted your conversions are coming out a bit more zapped 
up then my own. I've deflated the DEX/SPD equation a bit, which means someone 
like Turtle is likely to end up with around 11 DEX/3 SPD ... but Carnifex is 
still 24/6. 
 
On a secondary note, I'd be curious to see someone take on the characters that 
/weren't/ in GURPS Wildcards, particularly Will o' the Wisp, Shad, Crypt-Kicker, 
and Cameo. (I'd try it myself, but stupidly I traded my Card Sharks books at 
a paperback exchange, and now I can't seem to get them back). 
 
 
H. G. 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:16:10 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Will Austin wrote: 
 
> Bravo, Michael!!  I'd love to see more! 
 
Thanks.  I'm mostly done with Captain Trips... can you say "Point 
Monster"? 
 
BTW: Wildcards has the most incredible extreme'sI've ever seen in 
character design.  On one hand we have 52 point Chickenhawk, while *all* 
of Trip's 'friends' are at least 370 points or better.  I also have to 
deal with such things at 170 Active Point attacks!  (yes, you read that 
right...)  The other interesting thing is DEX, or lack their of.  Most of 
these guys look to have a DEX of about 18 and a SPD of 4, which means that 
true stat monsters like Carnifex and Moonchild *really* stand out. 
 
Following the character posts, I'll post my notes explaining  "How I Did 
it".  It should help with anyone wanting a 'rough and ready' meathod of 
conversion. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:28:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Bryce Berggren wrote: 
 
> >Thanks.  I'm mostly done with Captain Trips... can you say "Point 
> >Monster"? 
>  
> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
 
Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
 
BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
 
> >BTW: Wildcards has the most incredible extreme'sI've ever seen in 
> >character design.  On one hand we have 52 point Chickenhawk, while *all* 
> >of Trip's 'friends' are at least 370 points or better.  I also have to 
> >deal with such things at 170 Active Point attacks!  (yes, you read that 
> >right...)   
>  
> Only 170?? :) Have you tried Popinjay yet? Just your normal everyday 
> heroic-level 
> character ... except for a 420 pt. Active Point power. And I actually think 
> my version of him may have skimped. 
 
Well, no, but I can see how it is a disgustingly powerful attack.  What 
did you do?  I was going to try Extra-Dimensional Movement, Ranged, 
Useable on Others. 
 
> The other interesting thing is DEX, or lack their of.  Most of 
> >these guys look to have a DEX of about 18 and a SPD of 4, which means that 
> >true stat monsters like Carnifex and Moonchild *really* stand out. 
>  
> True ... although I've noted your conversions are coming out a bit more zapped 
> up then my own. I've deflated the DEX/SPD equation a bit, which means someone 
> like Turtle is likely to end up with around 11 DEX/3 SPD ... but Carnifex is 
> still 24/6. 
 
I'm using the conversion notes from Fantasy Hero for stats.  Basically you 
do this: (GURPS stat x 2) - 10.  It sorta works, except for STR. 
 
> On a secondary note, I'd be curious to see someone take on the characters that 
> /weren't/ in GURPS Wildcards, particularly Will o' the Wisp, Shad, Crypt-Kicker, 
> and Cameo. (I'd try it myself, but stupidly I traded my Card Sharks books at 
> a paperback exchange, and now I can't seem to get them back). 
 
Problem is, most of these guys didn't get a lot of screen time.  The guy 
that would scare me would be, uh... what ever Snotman called himself after 
Typhod Croyd got done with him.  *HE* was scary!. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 12:00:07 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
well, chickenhawk is just a joker though, they will be lower levels. 
 
cf DC first edition Superman. :) 
 
Captain Trips foci must cut down the points a lot though, with all those 
limitations? 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:21:52 -0700 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 05:28 PM 5/19/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>On Mon, 19 May 1997, Bryce Berggren wrote: 
> 
>> >Thanks.  I'm mostly done with Captain Trips... can you say "Point 
>> >Monster"? 
>>  
>> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
>> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> 
>Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
> 
 
Actually, in the lastest WC book. Cap'n Trips united his 'friends' and has 
permanently become the Radical now. 
 
 
>BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
> 
 
Not sure. I'll see if I can find out though. 
 
-Nic 
 
                +-------------------------------------------------+ 
                |               naneiden@iswest.com               | 
                |         http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/        | 
                |     "Kame...hame..ha!" - Goku, Gohan & Goten    | 
                +-------------------------------------------------+ 
 
From: "Larian" <vmsmith@execpc.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:32:11 -0500 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
---------- 
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
> Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
> Date: Monday, May 19, 1997 4:28 PM 
>  
 
> Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
 
	That one is a mystery to me, as far as i know she was still around as of 
the end of   "Double Solitair" (WC #10) 
 
> BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
 
	There are 12 original wildcards books, and at least 3 "Card Sharks" books 
I have 1-10, and im sorry to say they are out of print at the current time. 
 I have tryed every major book store chain i know of to find 11 and 12, but 
sofar NADA!!  maby thats where Moonchild dies, but i don't know! 
 
LATER :) 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:08:41 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wild Cards Characters 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
There's a pretty good version of Black Shadow available on the net somewhere. 
Unfortunately I don't remember the location.  If I remember right, it's 
around 600 or 700 points. 
 
I disagree that jokers would always be lower levels than aces. 
 
I used Bludgeon for quite a while as a goon / thug in my game. His speed 
and dex were closer to average for supers in my game to keep him competitive. 
 
I'd like to see The Sleeper written up.... 
 
Curt 
 
X-Sender: ghost@softfarm.com 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 19:22:15 -0500 
From: ghost@softfarm.com (Bryce Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 05:28 PM 5/19/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>On Mon, 19 May 1997, Bryce Berggren wrote: 
> 
>> >Thanks.  I'm mostly done with Captain Trips... can you say "Point 
>> >Monster"? 
>>  
>> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
>> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> 
>Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
 
In the Card Sharks series. My memories are fuzzy (time to track these books 
down again), but essentially Moonchild was forced to do something nasty she 
hadn't wanted to, and went catatonic on poor Mark. 
 
>BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
 
Lessee ... Wildcards, Aces High, Jokers Wild, Aces Abroad, Down & Dirty, Ace 
In the Hole, Dead Man's Hand, One-Eyed Jacks, Jokertown Shuffle, Assault on 
the Rox, the Tachyon goes home novel, and the three Card Sharks ... I think 
that's all of them. 
 
>> Only 170?? :) Have you tried Popinjay yet? Just your normal everyday 
>> heroic-level 
>> character ... except for a 420 pt. Active Point power. And I actually think 
>> my version of him may have skimped. 
> 
>Well, no, but I can see how it is a disgustingly powerful attack.  What 
>did you do?  I was going to try Extra-Dimensional Movement, Ranged, 
>Useable on Others. 
 
EDM? Kinduva cheat ... 'course, I had kinduva cheat too, so pot/kettle. I 
bit the bullet and gave him Teleport, tons of noncombat, Invisible to Sight 
(it makes a sound and it has a psychic signature, but if you don't know 
Jay's around you don't know what happened), UAO but only UAO, with Gestures 
and a -1/4 limitation to represent the fact that he has to be familiar with 
the location. Hmmm ... come to think of it, I should have bought him a bunch 
of floating locations instead of the -1/4. (Of course, this construction 
only works because my group dumped the pointless extra phase bit on 
noncombat teleport, which a lot of people wouldn't agree with, so ...). 
 
>> The other interesting thing is DEX, or lack their of.  Most of 
>> >these guys look to have a DEX of about 18 and a SPD of 4, which means that 
>> >true stat monsters like Carnifex and Moonchild *really* stand out. 
>>  
>> True ... although I've noted your conversions are coming out a bit more 
zapped 
>> up then my own. I've deflated the DEX/SPD equation a bit, which means someone 
>> like Turtle is likely to end up with around 11 DEX/3 SPD ... but Carnifex is 
>> still 24/6. 
> 
>I'm using the conversion notes from Fantasy Hero for stats.  Basically you 
>do this: (GURPS stat x 2) - 10.  It sorta works, except for STR. 
 
Ahh ... I'd wondered about that ... for STR, I've been using Extra Effort 
Lift (normal lift is multiplied by 10% x STR-16) to compare to the STR chart 
in HERO. 
 
>> On a secondary note, I'd be curious to see someone take on the characters 
that 
>> /weren't/ in GURPS Wildcards, particularly Will o' the Wisp, Shad, 
Crypt-Kicker, 
>> and Cameo. (I'd try it myself, but stupidly I traded my Card Sharks books at 
>> a paperback exchange, and now I can't seem to get them back). 
> 
>Problem is, most of these guys didn't get a lot of screen time.  The guy 
>that would scare me would be, uh... what ever Snotman called himself after 
>Typhod Croyd got done with him.  *HE* was scary!. 
 
Reflector. Iggghh ... 
 
Actually, Cameo gets quite a bit of play in CardSharks as I recall, and Shad 
and Crypt-Kicker play fairly big roles in the Rox cycle. Will o' the Wisp 
has a story to himself in the first Sharks novel, but he dies, so that puts 
a damper on his usefulness. :) 
 
> >> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
> >> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> > 
> >Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
>  
>> Actually, in the lastest WC book. Cap'n Trips united his 'friends' and has 
>> permanently become the Radical now. 
 
>What do you know, a happy ending for someone! 
 
You've got a funny idea of a happy ending. :) Basically put, the Radical's a 
24 karat jerk. Almost any of his 'friends' are better people ... and when 
that includes CT and Aquarian, those are strong words. 
 
> And what's a Cardshark Book? 
 
I'd like to think they're an apology for One-Eyed Jacks and Jokertown 
Shuffle. :)  Seriously, to make this as short as possible, the Wild Cards 
Trust switched publishers, and their first trilogy (only trilogy? say it 
ain't so!) with the new publisher involved a worldwide conspiracy called the 
Card Sharks, who are trying to eradicate the Wild Card virus and anyone 
infected by it. The first book traces the history of the Card Sharks to 
present day, and the next two deal with their present plan. Hartmann, 
Bradley Finn, the Ackroyd agency, and a couple other people find out what's 
going on, and try to stop it. 
 
H. G. 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:27:13 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Hughes Academy Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, the game is on, I have 10 people interested in playing (?!), but I 
will take more people as I don't have character ideas from everybody.  The 
ones I have seen so far have been pretty interesting (hard to believe from 
this group, eh? :) no creativity in Champs players). 
 
My web page (that feels wierd to say) is at www.cyberhighway.net/~lancec/ 
 
It is not complete yet, but is on it's way rapidly.  The campaign 
information and lots of extraneous info is on there.  My House Rules are 
there too, they aren't particularly key for the game, but they should 
provide a laugh at least. 
 
Let me know what you think (I know some of the links are dead, give me time! :) 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13-16 
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:29:15 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
>On a secondary note, I'd be curious to see someone take on the  
>characters that 
>/weren't/ in GURPS Wildcards, particularly Will o' the Wisp, Shad,  
>Crypt-Kicker, 
>and Cameo. (I'd try it myself, but stupidly I traded my Card Sharks  
>books at 
>a paperback exchange, and now I can't seem to get them back). 
 
 
I know Cameo was in Aces Abroad, GURPS second WC sourcebook/adventure. 
 
I'm not sure on the others.  Lots of other interesting characters, 
though. 
 
David Toomey 
dwtoomey@juno.com 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:35:18 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Richard Scott wrote: 
 
> Captain Trips foci must cut down the points a lot though, with all those 
> limitations? 
 
Well, Captain Trips is obviously Multiform, I guess IIF (little bottles) 
and x number of 1 hour charges.  Yeah, the final cost won't be all *that* 
bad. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:36:59 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Nic Neidenbach wrote: 
 
> >> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
> >> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> > 
> >Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
>  
> Actually, in the lastest WC book. Cap'n Trips united his 'friends' and has 
> permanently become the Radical now. 
 
What do you know, a happy ending for someone! 
 
> >BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
> > 
>  
> Not sure. I'll see if I can find out though. 
 
And what's a Cardshark Book? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:39:21 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Characters 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
 
>  
> There's a pretty good version of Black Shadow available on the net somewhere. 
> Unfortunately I don't remember the location.  If I remember right, it's 
> around 600 or 700 points. 
 
The Unoffical Champions Character Archive. 
 
> I disagree that jokers would always be lower levels than aces. 
 
So far, quite a few jokers and aces are all around 200 points.  Ti Malice, 
who is a joker/ace looks to be a whopper in the points department. 
 
> I used Bludgeon for quite a while as a goon / thug in my game. His speed 
> and dex were closer to average for supers in my game to keep him competitive. 
 
The version I posted was ment to be a seriously dangerous thug.  I tired 
to give him good defenses to make up for the low DEX.   
 
> I'd like to see The Sleeper written up.... 
 
Wait for it... 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:50:31 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Cordelia Chassion 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
This character is one of the first of the mega-point monsters.  Although 
her actual point total is low (228) most of that is taken up by her RKA 
power.  Cordilia is similar to at least two other characters in this 
series (Demise and Water Lilly) in that they have massivly powerful 
killing attacks that are almost impossible for people to defend against. 
I've decided to go with the final result of these powers (you die) in 
determining exactly how to build them.  If you've got another way, please, 
let me know. 
 
Anyway: 
 
CORDELIA CHAISSON 
 
Designers Notes: 
Cordelia is the young niece of "Sewer" Jack Robinson.  She is tall and 
slim, standing 5'7"and weighing 115 lbs.  She has black hair, dark eyes 
and a pronounced Cajun accent.  Her ace power is the ability to stop her 
target's respitory and cardiac systems, causeing an almost instant (and 
painful) death.  She can also use her power to revive someone who is 
suffering from shock or similar effects, she cannot heal actual wounds. 
Note: Her power could also be simulated by a Body Drain, although some GMs 
may balk at allowing a Drain to actually kill someone.  One could also go 
with a smalller RKA, but add in the Continous advantage.  
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		8		-2 
Dex		13		9 
Con		13		6 
Body		11		2 
Int		15		5 
Ego		15		10 
Pre		10		0 
Com		14		2 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		-1 
Spd		2		0 
Rec		4		0 
End		26		0 
Stun		22		0 
Char Total			31 
Power Total			197 
Total Cost			228 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
135	3d6 RKA, NND (Defenses: Not needing to breathe, non-human cardiac  
	system, not being 'alive'), Does Body (+1), Invisible to Sight 
	(+1/2), 1/2 END, No KB, END 8 
27	9d6 Healing, Invisible to Sight (+1/2), No Range, Not vs actual 
	wounds, only vs shock or similar damage (-1), END 7 
 
3	Bureacratics 11- 
7	Conversation 13- 
2	KS: Cable TV Industry 11- 
3	KS: Rock Music 12- 
3	Persuasion 11- 
2	PS: TV Producer  11- 
3	Seduction 11- 
4	Lang: Cajun French 
8	CSL: +4 with RKA 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	DF: Pronounced Cajun Accent 
15	Psych: Stubborn 
15	Psych: Will only use power in dire emergencies 
93	Experience 
 
(Cordelia Chaisson created by Edward Bryant and Leanne C Harper, character 
sheet created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:52:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Father Squid 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
FATHER SQUID 
 
Description: 
Father Squid stands about 6' tall and is very broad, weighing close to 270 
lbs.  He is gray skinned , with large hands lined with vestigial suckers. 
Instead of a nose he has a short fall of tentacles.  He is always dressed 
in the manner of a priest and smells faintly like the ocean.  Father 
Squid's powers include immense physical strength and the ability to remain 
underwater for extended periods of time. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		33		23 
Dex		14		12 
Con		23		26 
Body		16		12 
Int		14		4 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		15		5 
Com		6		-2 
PD		10		3 
ED		6		1 
Spd		4		16 
Rec		12		0 
End		46		0 
Stun		45		0 
Char Total			108 
Power Total			70 
Total Cost			178 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
9	Armor: 3 DEF (Thick skin) 
10	Life Support: No Need to Breath, 1 Recoverable Charge of 1 Hour 
8	Running: +4" (Total 10"), END 2 
1	Swimming: +1" (Total: 3") 
 
1	Perk: Priest 
9	Demolitions 14- 
6	KS: Theology 15- 
5	Oratory 13- 
3	Paramedic 12- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
5	Survival 13- 
2	WF: Small Arms 
2	Lang: Church Latin 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Disarm, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	DF: Smells faintly of the sea 
10	DF: Gray skinned joker with tentacles where his nose should be 
15	Psych: Sense of Duty to help _all_ jokers 
10	Psych: Secretive about past 
38	Experience 
 
(Father Squid created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:54:09 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Golden Boy 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
GOLDEN BOY 
(Jack Braun) 
 
Description: 
Golden Boy is tall, standing 6'2" and broad, weighing 190 lbs.  He's blond 
haired, blue eyed, muscular and good looking.  He's possibly the strongest 
man in the world.  His force field, which has a golden glow when it's 
active, grants him immunity from just about *anything*.  He is especially 
resistant to physical impacts, such as bullets and fists.  (Note the extra 
PD should only be applied to 'blunt' impacts, such as bullets, fists, most 
thrown objects, etc.  Golden Boy should not get this extra PD vs sonic 
attacks, falls or any physical attack with the AP advantage.)  Golden Boy 
doesn't age, and looks to be 25, despite being born in 1924.  As one of 
the original Four Aces (aka the Exotics for Democracy), he fought fascism 
in the late 40's.  When dragged before HUAC in the 50's, he collapsed and 
became a "friendly" witness.  This has resulted in him being a 'marked 
man' in the ace community, an image that hasn't totally left him with 
time. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		53		43 
Dex		21		33 
Con		20		20 
Body		14		8 
Int		10		0 
Ego		8		-2 
Pre		18		8 
Com		18		4 
PD		10		-1 
ED		10		6 
Spd		5		19 
Rec		15		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		51		0 
Char Total			138 
Power Total			171 
Total Cost			309 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
60	Force Field: +20 PD/ED, 0 END 
33	+50 PD vs physical impacts only (-1/4), Not vs falls (-1/4) 
6	Life Support: Immune to Aging, Immune to Disease 
4	Running: +2" (8" total) 
13	1/2 END on STR, END 3 
 
15	Wealth 
3	Acrobatics 13- 
3	Acting 13- 
3	Breakfall 13- 
5	Gambling 12- 
7	KS: Politics 16- 
1	PS: Actor 8- 
1	PS: Farming 8- 
2	PS: Real Estate 11- 
3	Seduction 13- 
3	Tactics 11- 
5	Trading 14- 
1	TF: Small Planes 
2	WF: Small Arms 
1	Lang: German  
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	Psych: Overconfident, willing to tackle anything singlehandedly 
10	Psych: Lecherous, prides himself as a 'ladies man' 
10	Psych: Reckless, tends to act first, think later 
10	Psych: Guilt complex over his past 
10	Rep: The 'Judas' Ace, ext 8-  
149	Experience 
 
(Golden Boy created by Walter John Williams, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:56:27 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Harlem Hammer 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE HARLEM HAMMER 
(Mordecai Albert "Kai" Jones) 
 
Description: 
The Hammer is tall and *very* heavy, standing 6'1" and weighing 475 lbs. 
His wildcard power has granted massive physical strength, and virtual 
immunity to physical harm.  It has also altered his metabolism, replacing 
his skeletal structure with heavy metal compounds and allowing him to 
regenerate from any actually physical damage that does occur to him.  He 
barely has to sleep, is virtually tireless and is somewhat faster than 
normal people.  The Hammer prefers to keep out of the public eye.  He 
thinks of himself as a joker and wants little to do with the typical ace 
'heroics'.  Note: the Hammer's regeneration wil not work on damage due to 
his dependency.  
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		53		38 
Dex		17		21 
Con		25		30 
Body		25		30 
Int		23		13 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		12		1 
PD		30		19 
ED		30		25 
Spd		4		13 
Rec		15		0 
End		50		0 
Stun		62		0 
Char Total			216 
Power Total			94 
Total Cost			310 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
7	Density Increase: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+5 STR, +1 PD/ED, -1" KB, x2 Mass; 6'1" Tall, 475 lbs  
30	Damage Resistance: Full 
6	Life Support: Immune to Disease, Doesn't Sleep 
8	Regeneration: 1 BODY per Minute (-1/4) 
13	1/2 END on STR, END 3 
 
5	Perk: Wealth 
3	KS: Automobiles and Automotive repair 14- 
3	KS: Assorted esoteric information and trivia 14- 
9	Mechanics 14- 
2	PS: Auto Mechanic 11- 
3	Trading 13- 
2	TF: Large Ground Vehicles, Tracked Vehicles 
3	CSL: +1 with Block, Haymaker, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	Phys: Dependence upon heavy metal salts once per day, or take 1 
	BODY per hour (Regen will *not* heal this damage) 
10	Phys: Increased metabolism: eats four times the human norm, body  
	temperature of 106 degrees 
15	Psych: Dislikes Doctors, Scientists, Hospitals and Laboratories 
10	Psych: Prefers to be left to himself 
10	Rep: Harlem Hammer; One of the worlds strongest men 11- 
150	Experience Bonus 
 
(Harlem Hammer created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9-37 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
High-level military in the US also are given exposure to JKD and 
Hwarangdo. 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Wed, 14 May 1997 22:45:39 -0500 Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
writes: 
>Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer wrote: 
>>  
>>         Well if he is member of Mossad he'll receive Krav Manga  
>training. If he's 
>> member of MI-5 ,MI-6 or any type of Military Secret Service he'll  
>receive a 
>> military training and some training in Jiu Jitsu or Aikido. If he'll  
>be 
>> member of CIA he'll receive Aikido and Karate training and a lot of  
>anatomy 
>> class to learn where really hurts B) . 
> 
>What is the Mossad? 
> 
>This character is actually one I'm helping another player build.  
>Interestingly enough, in the draft that *I* did of the character, I  
>gave 
>him Jujutsu (spelled as in UMA.. not sure if its correct).  The player 
>ended up using Aikido (mainly because its the 'art' that Steven Segal 
>uses in his movies, and thats basically the type of character he 
>wanted). 
> 
>Would anatomy class qualify him for find weakness??   ;) 
> 
> 
> 
>Todd 
> 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-32 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
"Best" how? 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Fri, 16 May 1997 14:05:05 +0200 (MET DST) Jens-Arthur Leirbakk 
<leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no> writes: 
> 
> 
>On Thu, 15 May 1997, Stephen B. Mann wrote: 
>> > From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> > What is the Mossad? 
>>  
>>      Israeli spy agency. Small, but with an impressive reputation.  
>I've 
>> heard it referred to as the best in the world. YMMV 
>>  
> 
>Bah :) The best agency in the world, is Kempai. *They're* small, and  
>the 
>best in the world. :)) 
> 
>                 =============================================== 
>                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
>                 =       e-mail: leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no         = 
>                 = http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/index.html = 
>                 =    Smash forehead on keyboard to continue   = 
>                 =============================================== 
> 
> 
> 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9-28 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The Israelis also use their extremely fine Paratroops for covert 
operations. 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Wed, 14 May 1997 23:27:48 -0700 Christopher Taylor 
<ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> writes: 
> 
> 
>>> What is the Mossad? 
>> 
>>     Israeli spy agency. Small, but with an impressive reputation.  
>I've 
>>heard it referred to as the best in the world. YMMV 
> 
>Their reputation got greatly inflated after a hostage event in the  
>70's. 
>Mossad is certainly the best for their budget and size. 
> 
>---------------------------------------------------------- 
>Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
>Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
>----------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> 
> 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,8-9,12-17,19-56 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I'm sorry, but tae kwon do is really more a sport than a style of 
fighting.  If you've seen their olympic contests, you can understand why. 
 
A really integrated, effective, martial art needs to be good in all four 
ranges, and must include a study of transitional techniques.  It simply 
isn't good enough to be a puncher, a kicker, a trapper, or a grappler.  
These ranges are important, but transition from one to the other smoothly 
is more important.  And overarching these considerations is your ability 
to gauge your opponent. 
 
So I wind up evaluating Role-Playing games by how well they consider 
hand-to-hand combat.  Everyone has a hobby, and a different set of 
criteria.  SB,>-- 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Fri, 16 May 1997 13:07:59 +1000 michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
writes: 
> 
>>> 'tough man'- neither of these people are in any way practically  
>trained - 
>>> why do you think that gracy guy made dog-meat of the competition in  
>that 
>>> goofy UFC thing you had? 
>> 
>>Actually, Royce Gracie made dog meat out of those guys because in 
>>champions terms he had a style they were totally unfamiliar with and  
>they 
>>could not handle.  Ryoce has not competed in years and others with  
>his 
>>style do not do nearly so well since people know what to expect. 
>> 
> 
>I think they would have the same problem with any real artist.  
> 
> 
>>Anyway, what was so goofy about it.  NHB fighting is the closest  
>thing you 
>>will get to a sport that shows what martial arts style -really- works  
>one 
>>on one:) 
>> 
>> 
>how about thai-style kickboxing? and besides, the nhb styles i've seen  
>are crap,  
>particularly they don't have any technique - if there was good  
>technique, every second  
>fight would include a serious injury, like taekwondo in korea, only  
>worse.AND they still have refs, and it's pretty obvious that the  
>fighters are told to 'take yer time', as the saying goes. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9-41 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The problem with muay thai is that they don't practice ground-fighting.  
If you shoot their legs, they're in trouble.  Not that it's easy to do. 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Fri, 16 May 1997 01:39:45 -0500 (EST) Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
writes: 
>> I once saw via satellite a competition that was from Thailand.   
>(Mind 
>> you that this was a real competition and not a movie) After a small  
>warm 
>> up for the fighters (All of which were using various forms but not  
>over 
>> 5'8") which for the Kick Boxers were a good few kicks to a concrete 
>> column.  In the very first fight the first move was a kick to the  
>head 
>> that not only broke the opponents arm (he blocked) but it smashed up  
>his 
>> nose as well.  The second kick Ko'ed him real quick.  The whole  
>thing 
>> lasted for less than 10 seconds.  There was a no killing rule from  
>what 
>> I could tell, but it didn't matter how close they were to death only 
>> that they didn't die.  In ten fights there were more broken bones  
>and 
>> major medical problems than Seeker has had on all the covers of all  
>the 
>> Champs books.  It was certainly not a "take your time" competition. 
> 
>Sounds alot like muy thai.  I recall they used to fight those with  
>ground 
>glass in their hand wrappings.  Very brutal fights.  The muy thai  
>fighers 
>who have crossed over into boxing have usually shown the same high 
>resistence to pain that this sort of fighting requires. 
> 
>TokyoMark 
> 
> 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8,10-131 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Lots of cops take hapkido -- lots of joint techniques, comealongs, etc.  
Prevents, or at least lessens lawsuits.  This is not a consideration in 
the military, but is for Secret Service. 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Tue, 13 May 1997 12:49:10 +1000 michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
writes: 
>At 08:37 PM 5/12/97 -0500, you wrote: 
>>Todd Hanson wrote: 
>>>  
>>> This question is more for the martial arts experts than the hero 
>>> experts.. 
>>  
>>> I'm working on a character whose background is kind of a 
>>> secret-service/govt agent type.  I want to give him martial arts,  
>but 
>>> I'm not sure what 'real world' martial art would be appropriate.   
>What 
>>> kind of training would a govt agent (or secret serviceman) receive? 
>> 
>>I have a fairly diverse background in the martial arts and have  
>trained 
>>in several schools.  I think the real snswer to your question  
>involves 
>>your character concept more than anything else.  The martial arts  
>rules 
>>in Champions are not very diverse.. i.e. you take a particular move  
>or 
>>set of moves that is the same regardless what martial art style you 
>>practice.. Offensive strike is offensive strike no matter what your 
>>school calls it.  
> 
>no, you can furnish a strike with extra dc's and csl's if you want:  
>i'ts the 
>point of the game-yes? 
> 
> 
>>The real answer to your question lies in your 
>>character's attitude.  Why is he a student of the martial arts?  What 
>>school did he choose to study in?  Why did he pick this school?  I  
>have 
>>seen everything from instructors who consider the martial arts more  
>of a 
>>self development art or sport and neglect the finer details of  
>fighting 
>>and confrontation .. and I have seen schools where a bloody nose is a 
>>nightly occurrance.   
>> 
>haw about: which school did his agency choose to study, based on real 
>practical value? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>Every martial artist is influenced by his instructor in some way.  I 
>>knew one junior instructor who was a street scrapper as a kid.  His 
>>total focus was on hitting and taking a hit.  Certain students 
>>gravitated towards him and others he drove away like flies.  Another 
>>instructor was very calm, patient and gentle.  His students were 
>>technically perfect but could not last five minutes in the sparring 
>>ring.  They were not prepared for conflict and had not been taught to 
>>look for weaknesses in their opponents.   
> 
> 
>actually, if they were "perfect", they should have been able to do  
>just 
>that- as well as hitting a lot harder than less 'technical' students .  
>.. 
> 
> 
>>I stood somewhere in the 
>>middle.  My students were taught fighting as an art for self-defense.  
> 
>>Dynamics such as taking the initiative, where to strike to take the 
>>fight out of your opponent, and above all control of their emotions  
>and 
>>techniques. I am not saying my way is right.. the point I am making  
>is 
>>that three separate instructors are going to turn out three different 
>>types of martial artists and all from the same school. 
>> 
> 
>but are all of them practical? no, and only a good, skilled, and  
>practical 
>style  
>would be adopted by such an agency- yours, in other words, is the only  
>one 
>which need apply. 
> 
> 
>>For a government agent.. control is the most important element.  You 
>>have to be able to decide whether your opponent is truly a threat or 
>>not.  You have to decide this in a split second and you have to react  
>on 
>>that decision.  Obviously the wrong decision is disasterous.   
> 
>are we talkin' spooks or nurses?? the agent in question is not going  
>to 
>bother trying  
>to be gantle- if they are cleared to kill(in self-defense) they will,  
>no 
>question.  
> 
> 
> 
>>Decide on 
>>who your character is and how the martial arts relate to his personal 
>>beliefs and your question will be answered.  Did he just walk out of  
>a 
>>tough-man competition, is he the national forms champion, or does he 
>>possess the wisdom and patience of a true master? 
>> 
>he's an agent, isn't he?? he will have been trained to kill and  
>restrain, 
>and he would not be trained by a wimpy forms expert, or an even  
>wimpier 
>'tough man'- neither of these people are in any way practically  
>trained - 
>why do you think that gracy guy made dog-meat of the competition in  
>that 
>goofy UFC thing you had? 
> 
>PS: there is no such thing as a true master. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: x3.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.100.22 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: tamolyn@juno.com 
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
"Best" how? 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Fri, 16 May 1997 14:05:05 +0200 (MET DST) Jens-Arthur Leirbakk 
<leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no> writes: 
> 
> 
>On Thu, 15 May 1997, Stephen B. Mann wrote: 
>> > From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> > What is the Mossad? 
>>  
>>      Israeli spy agency. Small, but with an impressive reputation.  
>I've 
>> heard it referred to as the best in the world. YMMV 
>>  
> 
>Bah :) The best agency in the world, is Kempai. *They're* small, and  
>the 
>best in the world. :)) 
> 
>                 =============================================== 
>                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
>                 =       e-mail: leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no         = 
>                 = http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/index.html = 
>                 =    Smash forehead on keyboard to continue   = 
>                 =============================================== 
> 
> 
> 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:28:14 EDT 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: x3.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.100.22 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: tamolyn@juno.com 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
The Israelis also use their extremely fine Paratroops for covert 
operations. 
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
 
On Wed, 14 May 1997 23:27:48 -0700 Christopher Taylor 
<ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> writes: 
> 
> 
>>> What is the Mossad? 
>> 
>>     Israeli spy agency. Small, but with an impressive reputation.  
>I've 
>>heard it referred to as the best in the world. YMMV 
> 
>Their reputation got greatly inflated after a hostage event in the  
>70's. 
>Mossad is certainly the best for their budget and size. 
> 
>---------------------------------------------------------- 
>Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
>Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
>----------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> 
> 
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 16:56:54 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Captain Trips 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
also with the limitation of consecutive uses causes 
personality/psychological problems, as well? 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> On Mon, 19 May 1997, Richard Scott wrote: 
>  
> > Captain Trips foci must cut down the points a lot though, with all those 
> > limitations? 
>  
> Well, Captain Trips is obviously Multiform, I guess IIF (little bottles) 
> and x number of 1 hour charges.  Yeah, the final cost won't be all *that* 
> bad. 
>  
> *************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
> *************************************************************************** 
>  
>  
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 17:03:59 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
yes, we could take a whack at them - I have some books here, but not the 
Champions ones. :) 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, David W Toomey wrote: 
 
>  
> >On a secondary note, I'd be curious to see someone take on the  
> >characters that 
> >/weren't/ in GURPS Wildcards, particularly Will o' the Wisp, Shad,  
> >Crypt-Kicker, 
> >and Cameo. (I'd try it myself, but stupidly I traded my Card Sharks  
> >books at 
> >a paperback exchange, and now I can't seem to get them back). 
>  
>  
> I know Cameo was in Aces Abroad, GURPS second WC sourcebook/adventure. 
>  
> I'm not sure on the others.  Lots of other interesting characters, 
> though. 
>  
> David Toomey 
> dwtoomey@juno.com 
>  
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:04:05 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I beg to differ.  Read the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ.  Read the history of 
Judo and Jujitsu. 
 
At 02:36 PM 5/20/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>At 01:27 AM 5/19/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>>At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
>>hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can 
kick.  
>> 
>> 
>>Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
>> 
>WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
> 
> 
>>:) 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 17:05:00 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
guess I haven't seen that one yet.  Card Sharks is the second cycle of 
Wild Cards books, the next however many up to 12, I guess.  Good stuff. :) 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> On Mon, 19 May 1997, Nic Neidenbach wrote: 
>  
> > >> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
> > >> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> > > 
> > >Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
> >  
> > Actually, in the lastest WC book. Cap'n Trips united his 'friends' and has 
> > permanently become the Radical now. 
>  
> What do you know, a happy ending for someone! 
>  
> > >BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
> > > 
> >  
> > Not sure. I'll see if I can find out though. 
>  
> And what's a Cardshark Book? 
>  
> *************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
> *************************************************************************** 
>  
>  
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 17:08:51 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Characters 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
No, no talways, but your average joker is just a person with some oddities 
that might give 'powers' i.e. claws, scaly hide, whatever. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
 
>  
> There's a pretty good version of Black Shadow available on the net somewhere. 
> Unfortunately I don't remember the location.  If I remember right, it's 
> around 600 or 700 points. 
>  
> I disagree that jokers would always be lower levels than aces. 
>  
> I used Bludgeon for quite a while as a goon / thug in my game. His speed 
> and dex were closer to average for supers in my game to keep him competitive. 
>  
> I'd like to see The Sleeper written up.... 
>  
> Curt 
>  
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 23:23:48 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Carnifex 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Bryce Berggren wrote: 
 
> >> If you can build Trips on less than a thousand points, you are a god ... 
> >> well, demi-god now, since he's lost Starshine & Moonchild. 
> > 
> >Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
>  
> In the Card Sharks series. My memories are fuzzy (time to track these books 
> down again), but essentially Moonchild was forced to do something nasty she 
> hadn't wanted to, and went catatonic on poor Mark. 
 
That's depressing.  Moonchild was one of my favorite Cpt Trips 'friends' 
 
> >BTW: what is the total count of WC books?  Are they still avaliable? 
>  
> Lessee ... Wildcards, Aces High, Jokers Wild, Aces Abroad, Down & Dirty, Ace 
> In the Hole, Dead Man's Hand, One-Eyed Jacks, Jokertown Shuffle, Assault on 
> the Rox, the Tachyon goes home novel, and the three Card Sharks ... I think 
> that's all of them. 
 
Hmmm... I've got books 1-10.  Tachyon goes home is "Double Solitaire", 
while the assualt on the Rox book is "Dealer's Choice".  There's also a 
Captain Trips book, with him going to Nam... we get to meat another 
friend.. "Monster" (who reminded me of the Overfeind).  I should try and 
permenently 'borrow' the ones I'm missing from a friend of mine... 
 
> >Well, no, but I can see how it is a disgustingly powerful attack.  What 
> >did you do?  I was going to try Extra-Dimensional Movement, Ranged, 
> >Useable on Others. 
>  
> EDM? Kinduva cheat ...  
 
Well, Popinjay is going to be described as a "GMs Special" anyway... 
 
> >I'm using the conversion notes from Fantasy Hero for stats.  Basically you 
> >do this: (GURPS stat x 2) - 10.  It sorta works, except for STR. 
>  
> Ahh ... I'd wondered about that ... for STR, I've been using Extra Effort 
> Lift (normal lift is multiplied by 10% x STR-16) to compare to the STR chart 
> in HERO. 
 
I forget what I used exactly to figure my STR chart, but I do have one. 
I'll post it when I'm all done.  BTW: using the FH conversion formula, 
Turtle will have an 11 DEX and a 3 SPD. 
 
> >Problem is, most of these guys didn't get a lot of screen time.  The guy 
> >that would scare me would be, uh... what ever Snotman called himself after 
> >Typhod Croyd got done with him.  *HE* was scary!. 
>  
> Reflector. Iggghh ... 
 
The scene that got me was where he absorbed the impact of a *train* and 
all the extra energy bled off of him in the form of lightning... 
 
> > >Lost Moonchild?  When did that happen, who did it? 
> >  
> >> Actually, in the lastest WC book. Cap'n Trips united his 'friends' and has 
> >> permanently become the Radical now. 
>  
> >What do you know, a happy ending for someone! 
>  
> You've got a funny idea of a happy ending. :) Basically put, the Radical's a 
> 24 karat jerk. Almost any of his 'friends' are better people ... and when 
> that includes CT and Aquarian, those are strong words. 
 
Oh well, I hadn't read the book, I just guessed. 
 
> > And what's a Cardshark Book? 
>  
> I'd like to think they're an apology for One-Eyed Jacks and Jokertown 
> Shuffle. :)  Seriously, to make this as short as possible, the Wild Cards 
> Trust switched publishers, and their first trilogy (only trilogy? say it 
> ain't so!) with the new publisher involved a worldwide conspiracy called the 
> Card Sharks, who are trying to eradicate the Wild Card virus and anyone 
> infected by it. The first book traces the history of the Card Sharks to 
> present day, and the next two deal with their present plan. Hartmann, 
> Bradley Finn, the Ackroyd agency, and a couple other people find out what's 
> going on, and try to stop it. 
 
Sounds pretty cool. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:38:49 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:36 PM 5/20/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>At 01:27 AM 5/19/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>>At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
>>hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can 
kick.  
>> 
>>Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
>> 
>WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
 
Well, gee aren't you just captain kung fu?  Judo was derived from juijitsu 
in the 1800s.  Juijitsu is the form from which Judo, Aikido and Hapkido all 
came.   
 
>From the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ: 
"Judo is derived from Jujutsu (see Jujutsu). It was created by Professor 
Jigoro Kano who was born in Japan in 1860 and who died in 1938 after a 
lifetime of promoting Judo. Mastering several styles of jujutsu in his 
youth he began to develop his own system based on modern sports principles. 
In 1882 he founded the Kodokan Judo Institute in Tokyo where he began 
teaching and which still is the international authority for Judo. The name 
Judo was chosen because it means the "gentle way". Kano emphasised the 
larger educational value of training in attack and defense so that it could 
be a path or way of life that all people could participate in and benefit 
from. He eliminated some of the traditional jujutsu techniques and changed 
training methods so that most of the moves could be done with full force to 
create a decisive victory without injury. " 
 
Gee, create a decisive victory without injury? Sounds like a sport to me. 
I get really sick of all the "my Flowering Pig kungfu is better than your 
Festering Boil style."  No one style is the be all end all of Martial Arts. 
 Every move has a counter move and many factors apply to the outcome of a 
fight.  Strength and resistance to pain are two of the greatest, as are the 
rules of contact.  How do you think Mike Tyson was able to defeat more 
technical fighters?  ALL styles have their strengths AND weaknesses.   
 
There is also the factor of the instuctor's teaching style.  You may find 
that dojo A of, say, Tae Kwon Do, is nothing more than preparation for 
sport competition and dojo B teaches the asthetics and philosophy of Tae 
Kwon Do.  Which is better?  Depends on the individual taking the 
instruction.  Any supergrand master can be defeated.  Royce Gracie has been 
defeated, big deal.   
 
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 23:56:12 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
<snicker> This guy was easy!  Reminded me of the DC Heroes write up for 
the Phantom Stranger in that Ambush Bug adventure... 
 
THE SLEEPER 
(Croyd Crenson) 
 
Designers Notes: 
The Sleeper is so named due to the nature of his power; when ever he falls 
asleep, his body changes into a new form.  Usually, he sleeps for several 
weeks, and then awakens, remaining awake for several weeks.  The Sleeper 
has a new body each time he wakes, often with a few joker features, and is 
usually a powerful ace.  His typical powers are great strength and 
enhanced dexterity and speed.  Due to the nature of his powers, the 
Sleeper fears sleep.  He is terrified of eventually waking up in a hideous 
joker body that will either die before he sleeps again, or that won't need 
to sleep at all.  He pops pills constantly, and will usually turn into a 
ravening, paranoid maniac before crashing at the end of his waking period.   
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		varies, but usually is 30+ 
Dex		varies, but usually is 20+ 
Con		varies		 
Body		varies		 
Int		14		4 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		varies		 
Com		varies		 
PD		varies		 
ED		varies		 
Spd		varies, usually 4+ 
Rec		varies		 
End		varies		 
Stun		varies		 
Char Total			na 
Power Total			na 
Total Cost			na 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	Powers vary from waking cycle to waking cycle.  The Sleeper is 
often very strong and resistant to damage.  His other powers (if he has 
any) vary greatly. 
 
Standard powers and skills: 
3	Life Support: Immune to aging 
2	Running: +1" (often more) 
 
10	Wealth 
5	AK: New York City 14- 
7	Gambling 13- 
?	Lockpicking 14- 
?	High Society 12- 
5	Security Systems 13- 
9	Shadowing 14- 
?	Sleight of Hand ? 
?	Stealth ? 
?	Streetwise 16- 
15	CSL: +3 with HTH combat 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	Phys: Addicted to Amphetamines 
15	Psych: Addicted to Amphetamines 
15	Psych: Reckless 
15	Psych: Terrified of Sleeping 
15	Rep: The Sleeper, a violent freelance criminal and plague 
	spreader, Ext 11- 
 
(The Sleeper created by Roger Zelazny, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:36:44 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 01:27 AM 5/19/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
>hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can kick.  
> 
> 
>Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
> 
WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
 
 
>:) 
> 
> 
> 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:48:15 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:28 PM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>I'm sorry, but tae kwon do is really more a sport than a style of 
>fighting.  If you've seen their olympic contests, you can understand why. 
yes, but that's tournament tqd, NOT meant for self-defense!!! 
 
 
> 
>A really integrated, effective, martial art needs to be good in all four 
>ranges, and must include a study of transitional techniques.  It simply 
>isn't good enough to be a puncher, a kicker, a trapper, or a grappler.  
>These ranges are important, but transition from one to the other smoothly 
>is more important.  And overarching these considerations is your ability 
>to gauge your opponent. 
 
NO! if you try to teach everything, all you get is a sloppy fighter. That 
is why the best arts focus on one area - -judo, thai kickboxing, kendo, 
various grappling styles, are good because they focus and dont pretend 
they know everything. it is up to the individual to find their own strenths 
and weaknesses - - - the gracy brothers are good at grappling, but they 
don't fall down when confronted by a kicker, do they??? the same can be 
said for all good artists.tradition is what you make it, nothing more. and 
if you try to 'gague' your opponent in a real fight, you get your head kicked in> 
 
 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:55:17 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:28 PM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>High-level military in the US also are given exposure to JKD and 
>Hwarangdo. 
> 
>Michael Scott Mears 
>TamOlyn@juno.com 
>SB,>-- 
> 
 
 
yeah?? i DO Hwa Rang Do!!! of course, we are korean-origin kick and grapple legends, 
while those american hwarangdo guys completly different - - - in fact, both these 
styles auffer from the same fate - - -  they/we are so diverse, it takes a really good  
instructor to make it work - - -otherwise it's just a sham, and no one learns anything. 
this is the problem with too wide a curriculum 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:01:31 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:28 PM 5/19/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>The problem with muay thai is that they don't practice ground-fighting.  
>If you shoot their legs, they're in trouble.  Not that it's easy to do. 
> 
 
it's SIMPLE!! alll you need is a titanum skull!!! *lol* 
seriously, do you really think you could go for a thai-fighters legs in a 
real fight? no, you couldn't: he'd knee you in the face, and stomp on your neck. 
 
piece of advise kids: NEVER lower your head!!! it is suicide!!! when you 
take-down, ONLY use your legs!! keep upright!!! always!!! 
 
sorry for the outburst. this concludes (hopefully) my martial arts lecture.  
 
Date: 	Mon, 19 May 1997 19:48:46 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org, Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
This is cheating, we can do better than that. :) 
 
First, I guess start with what he turns into, ace, joker/ace, joker in 
descending order of probability. Like 14- ace or something like that. 
 
Then, how do you simulate a random generator of powers?  This would be a 
good time to have a game when you randomly roll powers up on some table 
other than technological. 
 
I guess being basically an NPC only - would anyone play him or would they 
let anyone play him? 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:47:44 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Hughes Academy Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 06:27 PM 5/19/97 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>Okay, the game is on, I have 10 people interested in playing (?!), but I 
>will take more people as I don't have character ideas from everybody.  The 
>ones I have seen so far have been pretty interesting (hard to believe from 
>this group, eh? :) no creativity in Champs players). 
> 
>My web page (that feels wierd to say) is at www.cyberhighway.net/~lancec/ 
 
   Chris, I was interested in following this, but it crashes my browser. 
This Public Library machine only has Netscape 2.01; does your page use some 
of the more advanced Java stuff that NS201 can't handle?  (If so, don't feel 
that you have to change it; I'll probably have an upgrade before too long.) 
 
>It is not complete yet, but is on it's way rapidly.  The campaign 
>information and lots of extraneous info is on there.  My House Rules are 
>there too, they aren't particularly key for the game, but they should 
>provide a laugh at least. 
> 
>Let me know what you think (I know some of the links are dead, give me time! :) 
 
   Is there a link to my stuff?   ;-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
X-Originating-IP: [206.39.33.197] 
From: "David Graham" <dgraham882@hotmail.com> 
Cc: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Fwd: The Apocalypse Parallel 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:06:04 PDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The following is an advertisement for a live AOL campaign.  Any AOL members who  
are interested in playing, please send private mail to JQuick000@aol.com.  DO  
NOT reply to this list!  Thank you. 
 
______________________________________________________________________ 
 
Commander's Log 
UN Gateway Recon Team, Alpha 01 
Subject: Mission failed 
12.28.97 
*****************Start Log************************* 
      This transcript is eyes only. Security level Omicron.  If you're not  
cleared for this material, take a hike, Jack. 
      This is my final entry.  Current locatin is Akron, Ohio, CRA. That's  
Communist Republic of America, if you didn't know. And if you understand the  
rest of this, then you probably didn't.  Of course it's irrelevant now.   
Everyone here is dead. Everyone except for them, and I don't think they can  
talk. 
      When we came through the gateway, we expected something odd, but not what  
we found. At first, it looked just like our world. Then we noticed most of the  
signs were in German. And that was before thing started going really wrong.   
There was a plague...it was wiping out the population of that earth at the rate  
of about 20% a week.  It took us three weeks to find out that the Arrowhead  
Project was located in Virginia in this world, not New York. By the time we  
found the gateway, half the team was dead from the plague. Marcus was dead too,  
but it wasn't the plague. The Nazis got Marcus. We thought the 
gateway would get us home, but we were wrong about that, too. 
      It's been 5 weeks and 4 worlds since then. We lost two more team 
members when one world flooded. We lost the Wren unit on one that was 
freezing over like a tray of ice cubes.  The Wren was the one who figured out  
that the gateways were randomly changing alignment. 
      They got Sgt. Peters this morning. I've been holed up here since then, but  
they'll get in soon enough.  Luckily, I've got one round left. 
      If you're reading this then you probably already know; the gateways just  
lead on and on to different earths, each a little different from the last.  
Except for the fact that they're all dying, of course.  I've already seen  
plague, ice, flood, and the...things...that got Sgt. Peters. What would I see if  
I went on? Alien invasions? Meteor strikes? Or just empty, dead planets floating  
through space like discarded tin cans? 
      We fought the invaders that came through the gateway when they showed up  
on our planet, but I think I can understand them now.  If they were running from  
a place like this then I understand all too well. 
       They've broken through the outer door.  There isn't much to left to say  
anyhow, except that whoever you are, I hope that you saved yourself a bullet.  
Pretty soon you'll be needing it. 
****************End Log************************ 
 
The Apocalypse Parallel is a cross dimensional campaign using the Hero System  
rules.  The PCs are part of a multinational team sent through a mysterious  
gateway after an advanced extradimensional army uses it to launch an invasion of  
earth.  Their objective was to recon and locate weapons or technology usable  
against the enemy, but now it remains to be seen whether or not they can survive  
each dying world even long enough to get to the next.   
   The game at this point is planned to run Sunday evenings from 4:30 to 7:30  
EST in the RPG forum on AOL. EMail JQuick000 for complete campaign ground rules. 
 
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:22:50 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Howler 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE HOWLER 
(Stan Wojpowicz) 
 
Description: 
The Howler is a large, powerfuly built man, 6'1" and 180 lbs.  He has 
short brown hair, brown eyes and a strong chin.  His neck is very thick 
due to his mutated throat.  When acting as the Howler, he dresses in a 
distictive yellow costume with kevlar reinforcement.  His sonic powers 
allow him to shatter just about anything.  He can also create a 'wall' of 
sound, capable of knocking down buildings. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		15		5 
Dex		18		24 
Con		15		10 
Body		14		8 
Int		12		2 
Ego		11		2 
Pre		15		5 
Com		8		-1 
PD		6		3 
ED		4		1 
Spd		4		12 
Rec		6		0 
End		30		0 
Stun		30		0 
Char Total			71 
Power Total			173 
Total Cost			244 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
100	Multipower: Sonic Powers 
7	u 12d6 EB (physical), 1/2 END, END 3 
7	u 10d6 EB (physical), AoE: Cone (11"), No Range, END 10 
7	u 3d6 RKA, Penetrating, END 7 
 
9	Armor: 6 DEF, Act 14-, OIF: Body Armor 
7	Damage Resistance: 1/4 Physical, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
 
5	AK: New York City 14- 
5	Deduction 12- 
5	PS: Longshoreman 14- 
3	Stealth 13- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Dodge, Punch 
9	CSL: +3 with Multipower 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
10	DF: *Very* thick neck and throat 
10	Psych: Easy going and good natured 
10	Rep: Ace crime fighter 11- 
114	Experience 
 
(The Howler created by Stephen Leigh, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:26:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Oddity 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE ODDITY 
(Patti Roberts, Evan Crozier, John Sheak) 
 
Description: 
The Oddity is three people (Patti Roberts, Evan Crozier and John Sheak) 
fused into *one* body.  Thus, the Oddity is a massive figure, weighing 
close to 500 lbs, while only standing 6' in height.  The Oddity dresses in 
a floor-length, hooded black cloak, and wears a fencing mask to hide it's 
constantly shifting features.  It's body shifts as well, and the cloak is 
constantly shifting and sliding about.  The Oddity possess immense 
physical strength as well as great resistance to physical damage.  Because 
of it's multiple personalities, it is also very hard to contact and 
control telepathically.  Also, due to it's multiple personalities, the 
Oddity's INT can range from 11 to 15 depending upon who's currently 
dominant.  These changes will also affect which if the Oddity's Psych Lims 
are currently in use. 
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		45		30 
Dex		12		6 
Con		20		20 
Body		20		20 
Int		13		3 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		2		-4 
PD		25		16 
ED		20		15 
Spd		4		18 
Rec		12		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		50		0 
Char Total			150 
Power Total			49 
Total Cost			199 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
7	Density Increase: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+5 STR, +1 PD/ED, -1" KB, x2 Mass; 6' Tall, 490 lbs 
11	Damage Resistance: 12 PD/10 ED 
7	Mental Defense: 15 DEF, Only vs Mind Control and Telepathy (-1) 
6	Regeneration: 1 BODY per hour (-3/4) 
 
2	AK: Jokertown 11- 
4	AK: New York City 13- 
2	KS: Art 11- 
2	PS: Artist 11- 
2	PS: Sculpting 11- 
3	Streetwise 13- 
3	CSL: +1 with Grab, Haymaker, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	DF: Tall, massive joker with piebald skin and mutable form 
15	Phys: Multiple personalities - Patti is dominate, can cause 
	changes in INT and Psych Lims 
5	Phys: In constant pain 
10	Psych: Bad Tempered (John) 
15	Psych: Protective of jokers and jokers rights 
10	Psych: Shy (Evan) 
24	Experience Bonus 
 
(The Oddity created by Stephen Leigh, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:28:48 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Peregrine 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
PEREGRINE 
 
Description: 
Peregrine (she legally changed her name) is tall and broad-shouldered, 
with a buxom build, long brown hair and blue eyes.  She has brown and 
white feathered wings, and looks to weigh about 140 lbs, but due to her 
hollow bones, only weighs 80 lbs.  Her wings grant her the ability to fly, 
although her actual flight power is a form of telekinesis.  She is a quite 
famous ace, having her own talk show (Peregrine's Perch), cosmetic line, 
designer clothing label, etc.  Peregrine is also turned on by excitement 
and danger and often joins in on dangerous situations and events.  She 
wears a set of titanium talons on each hand for such encounters. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		23		39 
Con		15		10 
Body		13		6 
Int		17		7 
Ego		15		10 
Pre		18		8 
Com		22		6 
PD		5		2 
ED		4		1 
Spd		4		7 
Rec		6		0 
End		30		0 
Stun		30		2 
Char Total			101 
Power Total			95 
Total Cost			196 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
15	HKA: 1d6 (1 1/2d6 w/STR), 0 END, OIF: Fighting claws 
20	Multipower: Wings, Restrainable (-1/2) 
2	u Flight: 15" (30" noncombat), END 3 
1	u Gliding: 15" 
2	Running: +1" (7" total) 
 
10	Perk: Wealth 
5	Acrobatics 15- 
1	Bureacratics 8- 
3	Conversation 13- 
3	High Society 13- 
3	Oratory 13- 
5	PS: Model (PRE) 15- 
3	PS: Talk Show Host (PRE) 13- 
3	Seduction 13- 
3	Trading 13- 
10	CSL: +2 with HTH 
6	CSL: +3 with Flight 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	DF: Extreme beauty and tendency to dress very revealingly 
15	DF: Wings 
10	Phys: Hollow bones, weighs 80 lbs; +1" KB and requires special 
	medical attention 
10	Phys: Large, bulky wings 
15	Psych: Reckless, craves exceitment 
10	Psych: Likes to flirt 
5	Psych: Fear of getting wings dirty/fouled 
10	Public ID 
6	Experience 
 
(Peregrine created by Gail Gerstner-Miller, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:37:02 -0400 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> 
Subject: Re: Help 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:54 AM 5/18/97 -0500, Tim Haas wrote: 
>  What is the Def/Body of a normal gun anyways (my BBB is packed away at 
>the moment)? 
 
DEF on any focus is 1 for every 5 active points.  A normal gun his a 2d6 
RKA or 30 active points and thus 6 DEF.  If you do 7 pbody to a gun, it is 
destroyed. 
The minimum DEF is 3.  BBB pg 105. 
 
  Joe 
 
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:56:09 -0400 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 07:48 PM 5/19/97 -1000, Richard Scott wrote: 
>This is cheating, we can do better than that. :) 
> 
>Then, how do you simulate a random generator of powers?  This would be a 
>good time to have a game when you randomly roll powers up on some table 
>other than technological. 
 
Alright, I don't know the books, but from the description Michael Surbrook 
gave he seems simple.  One power: 
 
VPP (100-300 base, however powerful he needs to be, you know the books, you 
tell me) Cosmic(+1), Can only change between games (-1/2), No Conscious 
Control (-2). 
 
Throw in the LS: Needs no sleep (-1/2 plot device limitation) 
 
   Joe 
 
 
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:50:20 -0600 
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> 
Subject: Humor (slightly off topic) Long 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I know this is a little off topic but I thought the list at large would 
like this.... 
 
 
 
 
 
You might be a gamer if... 
 
 
...losing your dice bag would be a serious financial blow. 
 
        ... " what do you mean dice bag ?" ( singular ) 
 
...you could paper you bathroom in character sheets. 
 
...you could paper your bathroom in different versions of just one 
character. 
 
...you are unable to walk past the latest TSR supplement without leafing 
through it, even though you know it's going to be bad. 
 
...you have more entertaining "No-shit,-there-I-was-in-a-game" stories 
than 
you do anecdotes about your family. 
 
...you talk about your characters as if they are real people. 
 
...you refer to your IRL job as " Live Role Playing " 
 
...you alternate between referring to your characters in the first and 
the 
third person. 
 
        ... and none of your friends gets confused. 
 
...you've ever spent a significant fraction of your life modifying game 
rules that you didn't like 
 
        ... and, as soon as the system worked to your satisfaction, 
discarded it. 
 
...when someone says "The blue books," you don't automatically picture 
the 
kind that they give you during a college final exam. 
 
...you worship idols of Gary Gygax in your basement. 
 
        ...you burn Gary Gygax in effigy in your back yard. 
 
...you will not buy comic books with the Dragon Strike (tm) logo on the 
back. 
 
...you've ever seen the old AD&D tv series. 
 
...you're still reading this list. 
 
...you hang out with people you actively dislike because they give good 
role-play. 
 
...you've ever gotten into a screaming match over something that 
happened 
in a game. 
 
...you have more than one photocopied bootleg of a gaming text. 
 
...you keep old characters around because they are good company. 
 
...you keep old characters around just in case someone might run that 
system again. (Never mind that its TS: SI) 
 
        ...You knew what I meant when I said TS:SI. 
 
...you have a PhD in manipulating point systems to the best effect,even 
though you failed high school geometry. 
 
...you can consume your body weight in junk food in one gaming session. 
 
        ...It's not enough to sustain you. 
     
...you consider Altoids, Salt-&-Vinegar chips, and blue Teeni Hugs a 
balanced diet. (or even an acceptable combination.) 
 
        ...pizza, Coke, cheese puffs, and Sanex  
 
        ...pringles, chocolet covered penuts, and moutain dew 
     
...you have been known to drive to far away places where you paid 
enormous 
amounts of money for the privilege of sleeping on floors, eating crap, 
buying little pewter statues of Gandalf, and meeting dozens of 
psychopathic 
members of the alternate (or similar) sex who will follow you around for 
months,  merely for the pleasure of playing with gamers you don't know. 
 
        ...and then signed up en masse with all of you friends to play 
in games 
with game masters who you've known since high school. 
 
...you own your own weight in gaming books. 
 
        ...before or after the 'consuming own weight' thing? 
     
...the owners of local hobby stores take your checks without ID because 
they know where you live. 
 
        ...And don't want to come over to collect 
     
...you can do AD&D money conversions in your head. 
 
        ...while sleeping. 
     
...you could wallpaper your bedroom in Dragon Mirths (tm). 
 
        ... you have. 
     
...you consider the demise of "What's New With Phil & Dixie" a blow to 
great literature. 
 
...you consider the resurrection of "What's New With Phil & Dixie" the 
redeeming feature of Magic: The Gathering. 
 
...you consider the 20th century a state of mind. 
 
...you have a random NPC generator, written in BASIC, designed to run on 
the Trash-80,the Commodore 64, MSX or Apple II. 
 
...you've ever designed your own character sheets. 
 
...you can be more that three NPCs at the same time without generating 
more 
than reasonable confusion in your players. 
 
...you have ever played a Dwarven character who did not have "axe" or 
"beard" ANYWHERE in his or her name. 
 
...you know how to sex dwarves. (chromosome typing- required a blood 
sample. I'M not getting it...) 
 
...you've ever tried to explain gaming to a school counselor, parent, or 
other PW/OC (Person With/Out Clue). 
 
        ...you've succeeded. 
 
...you've played Talisman more than once. 
 
        ...you've finished a game of Talisman. 
 
                ...more than once. 
 
...you're STILL reading this list. 
     
...you can quote extensively from the Wandering Damage Tables. 
 
...you've mistaken a d12 or a double d10 for a d20 while playing AD&D 
and 
had a THAC0 low enough to hit the 8HD monster, anyway... 
 
        ...you understood that. 
 
...you carry AD&D insurance. 
 
...your AC is so low that even you can't hit yourself. 
 
...an 87 point Balrog is no big thrill anymore. 
 
... you bring your dicebag even to diceless roleplaying events. 
 
        ... to hit people with. 
     
...you've ever discovered, after gaming with your significant other, 
that 
you like their character better than you do them. 
 
...you have friends or acquaintances       gularly refer to you as "Og." 
(Or something similar.) 
 
...you've ceased responding to your birth name. 
 
...you spend more money on dice than on food. 
 
...you sometimes forget what century this is. 
 
...your first response to any frustrating situation is, "I bash it with 
my 
axe." 
 
...you know a lot of gaming jokes that used to be funny once. 
 
        ... you still find them funny 
     
...your friend(s) who does not game feels very left out of all of your 
conversations. 
 
...you have more gaming books than the local hobby store. 
 
...you've discovered that spare dice make good beanbag filler. 
 
        ... use the beanbag as traveling-dice bag. 
     
        ...you knew that that last question was a ringer:  
                who has more dice than they can use? 
 
... you have a copy of "Dark Dungeons" kicking around somewhere because  
        a: you thought it was funny  
        b: your parents got concerned that you were living in a fantasy 
realm. 
        c: you're sort of dissapointed that you haven't reached the 
level where 
they start teaching you the real spells (as described in the above "Dark 
Dungeons" pamphlet) yet:  
        d: You're sure you must be a high enough level. 
 
...you've been gaming for more than half of your life. 
 
...you still laugh when someone says "Hey, Dave, I think the barbarian 
in 
the corner wants another beer." 
 
...the phrase "Collect Call of Cthulhu" brings back fond memories. 
 
...you can quote the whole "Trolls!  Mutants!  Trolls!  Mutants!" strip 
from "what's New With Phil & Dixie." 
     
...you knew a female gamer once. 
 
        ...you were a female gamer once. 
 
...you tend to play characters as different from you in race, religion, 
sex, sexual orientation, and what have you as possible, just to confuse 
your friends. 
 
...(For New Englanders only) You were able to find stuff at "Flock, 
Stock, 
and Barrel." 
 
...you've been known to have in-depth conversations about the relative 
merits of Champions, V&V, Marvel, and DC heroes... ignoring the fact 
that 
all superhero systems are intrinsically sucky. 
 
        ...you like one of the above systems enough that you yelped when 
I called  
them all, "sucky." 
     
...you've thought of four or five additions to this list. 
 
...you actually bought TSR's "Dungeoneer's Survival Guide" when it first 
came out. 
 
...you've ever tried to discover the strengths and weaknesses of a 
hemophiliac werewolf. 
 
...someone is attempting to explain the floor plan of a building to you 
and 
you immediately start thinking in terms of 10x10 squares...or 6'x6' 
hexes. 
 
        ...Or in terms of loot and monsters. 
 
... you know what a "flumph" is. 
 
... you know how to pronounce "Tscojanith" and "Drizz't." 
 
 
 
--  
-Mhoram 
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 
 two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright 
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain: 
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 05:22:54 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Wayne J Shaw <shaw@IDT.NET> 
X-Sender: shaw@u3.farm.idt.net 
Reply-To: Wayne J Shaw <shaw@IDT.NET> 
cc: HeroGames@aol.com, fuzion@pjh.org, Mike Bandoian <Bandoian@deltanet.com&> 
        Sean Fannon <SeanPatFan@aol.com> 
Subject: Fuzion commentary (long)  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Here's the full version of the one I popped out incompletely a while ago.  
I know some of it is old news by now, but it still seemed worth sending 
out: 
 
Okay, now that C:TNM is out, I'm ready to actually make my comments on the 
system. 
 
First off, I want to make it clear that I come at it from a fairly neutral 
stance: I don't think (as some people apparently do) that Hero Games is 
the Antichrist because they've done something to try to break up the 
sluggish movement their system has had for years, and because it doesn't 
happen to be what I'd necessarily prefered.  On the other hand, I'm not 
going in with the assumption they've done things properly either, just 
because of marketspeak.  I also have pronounced opinions of where some 
bugs in Hero 4th are, and this will cover my views, as you'll see. 
 
This will largely be broken up into commentary about each rules section as 
I get to it.  Some of it will have been stated before, but I'm going to 
still comment when I hit something worth commenting on. 
 
Lifepath/Originpath: Unlike some people, I find these fairly harmless; 
sure some people will think they're manditory, but frankly, they seem 
obviously bypassable to me on reading them, and they look like they could 
be a good tool for someone with no concept in mind when they start out. 
They are also (at least the Origin Path) rather obviously set up for the 
specifics of the C:TNM universe in mind. 
 
Primary Characteristics: For the most part, I thought this did a good job 
of breaking down the sets of characteristics in the two parent games and 
making them _appoximately_ even in value.  I thought the modifications to 
Strength (removing the figureds) and Dexterity (splitting it in two) were 
particularly good choices.  I'm not sure making them all equal was 
necessarily the ideal choice, but for a game that was trying to simplify 
it's structre it was an understandable one.  Even though I am not 
altogether comfortable about the fact your Strength no longer has any 
impact on your Defense or Stun, I think it makes certain of the issues 
involving things like Hand-to-Hand attack much more approachable.  I would 
have prefered them to call Reflexes and Dexterity Dexterity and Agility, 
and really think Speed should be based off of the latter, but that's 
probably just me. 
 
Adding/Removing Characteristics: I'm not nearly as sanguine about this as 
they are.  I suspect rolling some of these characteristics in together 
would have very non-benign effects.  I also think their statement about 
emphasizing the importance of characteristics is ducking the issue; some 
campaigns just _can't_ make all characteristics be equal.  That was one of 
GURPS flaws.  On the other hand, there's an easy fix; it isn't hard at all 
to retroduce increased cost for heavily valued characteristics. 
 
Figured Characteristics: It's really unfortunate that they don't spell out 
how to buy these seperately.  It clearly can be done from the implication 
of the Increasing or Decreasing Characteristics bar at the bottom of page 
116.  However, the only ones on the characters are either Defenses (which 
were priced off of the entry in Powers on Armor) or Speed (which at 10 per 
one point, seems pricey given that 10 Option Points could also buy you 2 
more points of Reflex, which would _also_ give you a Speed point). 
Personally, I also wish they'd have kept Stun Defense as Physical Defense. 
I realize the distinction they were making, but... 
 
Gadgets and Bought Options: These need to be spelled out in much greater 
detail.  It _appears_ the distinction is that Gadgets are bought as powers 
with the character taking a Complication to represent the problems with 
having a power on a Focus, while Bought Options are purchased with the 
'money' value of an Option Point.  This also strikes me as creating some 
real problems, since while it's better than giving them out for free, it 
still gives an enormous cost break to conventional technology. 
 
Complications: In general, I'm actually glad about their attempts to 
generalize these more (and don't let the tables fool you, that's what 
they've done; the tables are exemplary for the most part, with a few of 
them giving specifics for common types of complications that are not self 
evident from the general rules).  However, a few things could have been 
clearer.  For example, the Vulnerability section seems to double-dip on 
frequency.  My _guess_ would be that this represents how commonly the 
character can expect to run into it in the environment, and how often the 
GM is permitted to insert it deliberately, but it's _anything_ but clear. 
And the Susceptibility does not give any numbers for how it's applies, nor 
are there any examples in the sample characters.  But it's still a 
generally sound approach, and some things (like the 'social 
disadvantages') have been long needed. 
 
Skills: In general, the breaking down of skills more finely was a good 
thing.  It does, however, produce some odd results, such as the 
distinction between Hand to Hand Evade and Melee Evade.  It also seems 
like something like the old Scientist/Scholar/etc. structure could have 
been imported; I'm sorry, but I've simply never seen a campaign where the 
miscellaneous Knowledge skills are as useful as a lot of functional and 
combat oriented skills.  Also, the business found later about using skills 
with the stat appropriate for the situation should either have been here, 
or at least had  a 'See' reference. 
 
Talents: Okay.  I understand the desire to keep things simple here, but it 
seems to me this is an area where the fixed cost mania got out of hand. 
Some of these seem clearly worth more than 3 points to me (Acute Sense 
comes to mind).  Also, I notice one has disappeared since Bubblegum 
Crises: Knack, which seemed to be the replacement for Scholar/Scientist/ 
Etc.  Since that sort of thing belongs, if anything, more in the Superhero 
genre than anywhere else, I'm a bit suprised.   
 
Perks and Privledges: Okay, this is the first of a couple places where an 
idea that should have been either implimented more fully or left the hell 
alone is presented: the Dial for 'impact' of Perks influencing cost.  This 
should either be discussed as a general proceedure for all kinds of 
purchases, or left the hell alone.   Yes, wealth has very little impact in 
a superhero game, but enormous in a cyberpunk game; but that's also true 
of computer programming.  Also, it's doubtful that Perks as a class change 
from setting to setting: Wealth may not matter much in a superhero game, 
but contacts and favors certainly can. 
 
Wealth: Speaking of Wealth, the way 'regular' equipment is purchased in 
C:TNM is unclear as hell; you buy a Wealth perk, but yet characters do 
seem to pay a small number of option points for the privledge to hall 
things around.  Do you have to pay them again if you lose the equipment? 
And are weapons and armor pointed differently than other everyday 
equipmenet? (It seems so.)  This is a very unclear area. 
 
Superpower Plug-In:  <Leans back and cracks his nuckles in preparation>. 
Okay.  Most of this section I had no problem with.  The simpliied 
purchasing of powers is in keeping with the rest of the system.  Buuuut... 
I even understand the idea of doing up 'canned' powers like the Armor 
Pierecing Energy Blast rather than defining Advantages. But the reduced 
damage rather than modified cost is, I think, a terrible idea.  It 
produces the effect of making powers with Advantages progressively more 
attractive the more dice of it you're going to buy.  A typical C:TNM 
campaign might not feel this hideously, but a higher powered campaign 
definitely would.  In addition, it's not even implimented consistently; 
the adjustment powers are adapted more or less straight across form 
Champions; their advantages (Range in particular, though they talk about 
extended fade time) is bought by increasing the cost of the power as a 
multiplier, in effect.  I think this whole idea, along with the idea of 
using Compensations rather than Limitations, is dangerous at best for 
balance reasons. 
There are also a few annoyingly missing powers; one that has jumped out at 
a number of people (Regeneration) is discussed as being done by buying up 
Recovery.  Unfortunately, this just won't do for actual combat-time 
regenerators, which are a small but not non-existant group.  The vanished 
Transform is also annoying.  You'd also think they could have fixed the 
damn fool business about having to buy the rest of the group at full cost 
on the sensory modification powers. 
A few specific power problems while I'm at it: 
Entangle: Surely they didn't mean for Entangle to actually cost END each 
round.  That bug went out back in Champs I. 
Invisibility: The END cost listed on this is 1/phase.  What is this 
supposed to mean, or is it some sort of typo? 
Force Wall: Given that Energy Blasts and Killing Attacks do damage the 
same way to inanimate objects, and that Killing Defense is normally 
equally effective against either, the difference between the two in the 
way Force Walls are effected makes no sense at all.  In addition, Force 
Walls were often too easy to bring down in Champs; against a Killing 
Attack of compareably power, they're _much_ too easy in the Power Plug in. 
At the least they should get 3 DEF per level, and even then at higher 
level totals there are going to be problems since Killing Attacks slowly 
gain on the Force Wall.  Personally I'm beginning to see virtue in the 
idea of giving Force Walls some SDP in addition to their Armor, and then 
maybe require putting one up actually be an action. 
Growth: This shows all the signs of not being edited when copied over from 
Hero4th.  Inches of Knockback?  Adding Body?  Only adding 1 Stun in a 
version of the game where characters often have significantly more Stun 
than Champs characters? 
See in the Dark: Does this really mean to go through _any_ Darkness, or is 
it just effectively a Special Group targeting sense that you have to buy a 
dedicated Darkness to stop?  If the former, I'm very leery of neutralizing 
a whole power quite that trivially. 
 
Mental Powers Plug-In: Not much change from what we're used to here, 
except for apparently dropping back to the pre-Fourth Edition, pay 
Endurace each round rule.  On the other hand, it only looks like you get 
once shot to pull out of the effect, and then you're stuck.  Hmmm. 
Also, the breakout roll seems rather easy to make, and there seems to be 
no way to make it harder on the target. 
 
Martial Arts Plug-In: There are some interesting features in this, and 
some things that struck me as strange.  Making Breakfall a Martial Arts 
manuever rather than a skill, for example.  The presence of Ki Strike in 
Streetfighting (and _only_ Streetfighting).  The goofy Martial Arts cost 
dial (see the discussion of Perks above for my problem with this.)  Also, 
at only two option point per extra damage class, it seems way too good a 
deal.  At four per DC it would have been a good deal, given the lack of 
END cost. 
 
Mekton Plug-In: This seems generally well done, but was not explained 
fully, as some errata I've seen on the net indicates; in particular, 
calculating the final weight is problematic with the information given. 
Some thought to the proper application of the Rule of X to Mecha or 
Vehicle using characters also would have been helpful.  My assumption was 
that you use the vehicle or the character's defenses and toughness, 
whichever is higher.  That makes it barely possible to build a small 
battlesuit or vehicle under the system with a decent character and fit it 
into a Rule of 24.  Also, I think explicit discussion of the scale 
targeting differences would have been helpful, otherwise one of Mekton's 
more important balancing factors goes out the window. 
 
Experience: There are some problems in this area; particularly the rules 
for buying up skills after the fact mean that it's actually cheaper to buy 
an underlaying Characteristic after a Skill has reached Level Five.  It's 
also not clear at all from the write-up how many Option Points over all 
should be awarded per game. 
 
Rule of X: A fine idea, but the implimentation in some cases is unclear. 
For example, it mentions Damage of attack, not Points, which could be 
interpeted to mean that a 10D6 AP attack is worth the same as a 10D6 
regular attack. 
 
Time, Turns and Speed: The various speed up options and such are nice. 
The lack of half-phases is something that might take some getting used to, 
and the accidental removal of the Move action isn't going to help in some 
cases.  I also think there were better places to mention the Post-12 
Recovery than where it is, since, sure enough, some people think you only 
get it when you're using Speed, even though they clearly mention that 
without Speed, it' just as though you had everyone with a Speed of 4. 
It's also interesting that the alternative use for Speed charg mentions 
Speeds up to 24. 
 
Distance and Movement: Perhaps it's me, but having read the movement and 
accelleration rules on page 140, and additional discussion under the 
movement powers in the Powers Plug-In, I _still_ can't figure out how fast 
someone actually accellerates.  Their combat move?  Their Move score? 
What?  It's rather important, especially in light of some potentil effects 
of the Strength tables.  There are places that seem to imply that 
accelleration works much more dramatically than the pokey version in Hero, 
but it's simply impossible to be sure. 
 
Taking Action/Difficulty Values: This seems generally simple and workable 
enough (though you wouldn't get me to use the Interlock option on a bet; 
small linear die rolls are Not A Good Thing).  However, the table of 
difficulites needs to be modified down by -5 if you're using the D10 
option, or things are significantly harder for people using that. 
 
Using Your Skills: Mostly good work; I particularly like the discussion of 
varying the characteristic base for the skill based on the situation. 
However I think the critical success and failure rules could use some 
work; in practice, these don't really _matter_ as written, in the majority 
of situations. 
 
Actions: There are a few problems in this area, such as the apparent 
accidental removal of the Move action (equivelent to the Champions 
half-move, allowing you to move a bit and still take action).  There are 
also some changes that have profound effects on other parts of the rules: 
Diving for Cover is a fairly trivial exercise for a super, which somewhat 
reduces the utility of area and explosive effects, and Getting Up is a 
full action, which makes being knocked down (by a throw or knockkback) far 
more problematical. 
 
Lifting and Throwing: There are some problems with the whole way the Lift 
table is set up.  For one thing, many of the high-end examples are messed 
up, being _way_ too heavy.  Also, with the superheroic dial setting, we're 
back to the bottom end being able to lift a hell of a lot.  As to throwing 
things, while a cute idea, there are some problems.  First off, the second 
paragraph seems problematic; either it's correct as written, in which case 
minimum throws (because of the STR +4 formula) are way high, or that's 
supposed to be a _minus_ four...in which case teh line under Strength 
feats about only throwing a quarter of your lift is probably not correct. 
More importantly, in the case of high end strengths, the new table makes 
it far too viable a technique to simply pick up an annoying opponent and 
_throw_ him out of the area.  Unless the accelleration rules for movment 
powers have changed (and as I noted, its unclear) he will not likely get 
back before the battle is over.  This worked in DCHeroes because DCHeroes 
characters can accellerate to full speed instantly, and often have 
horrendously large movement powers. 
 
Special Attacks: Some of these aren't much different that in Hero. 
However: 
 
Explosions: As I noted above, it's perhaps a trifle too easy for 
high-characteristic characters to get out of these. 
 
Autofire Attacks: The phrasing under 'Hosing it Down' is seriously 
confused.  It appears the intent is to use something like the Hero and 
RTG autofire rules, which generally worked fairly similar; this is 
supported both by the rules in BubbleGum Crises, and by how the example 
reads.  However, if read literally, any hit leads to a flat number of hits 
equal to some divisor of the rounds fired.  Also, does the rounds fired 
serve any _beneficial_ purpose?  It doesn't appear so. 
 
Manuevering: The discussion of missing a manuever roll seems backward; as 
listed, a lower miss seems to produce a worse result than a higher one. 
Most likely the consequence of the reversed die-rolling convention. 
 
Oh, and since they're in this area: On the guns table, since there was a 
spot between medium Pistols and Magnum Pistols available, damage wise, 
shouldn't the heavies have gotten it rather than setting them the same as 
the Mediums? 
 
Damage: Most of this is clear enough, and seems to fix some old problems. 
The things that will be hardest for Hero players to get used to is that 
it's not going to be possible to get knocked out a lot any more without 
taking some real damage in the form of Hits.  There's at least a couple of 
problems in here though: 
 
Melee Weapons: The strength minimums on weapons are seriously broken. 
None of the Stun weapons are worth using; a STR 3 man can literally do 
more damage with his hand than with a club, and neither the club nor staff 
does any more damage than the person would do unarmed.  Some of the 
Killing Weapons suffer from the same problem if you're dealing with 
armored opponents; they don't actually do any more damage than the person 
expects with his strength, they just turn it from Stun to Killing. 
 
Kills: The implimentation of this idea looks like it'll work well in 
supers games and be mostly harmless elsewhere.  There is an extremely 
cryptic statement about Kill damage applied to humans creating extra 
knockback that is never explained, however. 
 
Knockback: Speaking of Knockback, this is an extra area that is a problem. 
According to the rules as listed, a normal handgun will knockdown an 
average human, even with the Everyday/realistic setting, every time.  It 
seems like some of this problem would go away if the D6 of knockback 
bonus was subtracted, not added.  Even getting rid of it would still leave 
too much knockback, however, and in a game where getting up is an Action, 
this can be a problem. 
 
Defense and Armor: In general, the sample armors seem too light.  It takes 
chainmail, on the average, for example, to stop a shortsword wielded by a 
STR 3 man. 
 
Mecha Armor: It seems like at least some of these rules (Staged 
Penetration) should be applied to normal armor too, or not at all. 
 
Falling and Collisions: Other than the problem of the missing columns, 
we're right back to having a completely unrelated system used for falling 
and collusions than for Move Throughs and Movebys. 
 
For all of the above, I think the game has genuine potential; but I think 
it is seriously hindered by the bad editing and lack of blindreading and 
blindtesting it obviously recieved before going out the door.  
 
 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:56:41 -0500 
From: James Van Sickle <khaine@swbell.net> 
Reply-To: khaine@swbell.net 
Subject: Re: Fuzion commentary (long) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
    I actually have to agree somewhat on this.  While granted I have not 
finished going through the book in its entireity, I have found some 
points that have excellent potential.  The revision of the attributes 
was an interesting concept with splitting of the DEX characteristic. 
The Life Path/Origins section was a nice addition since it helps add 
some background ideas after simply designing a basic character concept. 
I have had many occassions in which I or someone else has an interesting 
character concept or idea, but just can't seem to pull background or 
origin together.  However, the powers have been the section I have 
concentrated most on currently. 
 
    I liked how they explained Special Effects, and gave some common 
examples of these in the beginning.  I always seem to end up explaining 
and explaining the concepts of Special Effects.  However, I did not care 
for the idea of limited amount of Advantages and Disadvantages 
available.  Granted Fuzion is supposed to simplify the game so that it 
would be easier to play and design characters.  Unfortunately I have 
always felt that the huge amount of Advantages and Disadvantages which 
you can add to Powers has been one of the best factors of the game.  It 
allows you to design almost any power you want to just about any 
specifics you can possibly think of. 
 
    As for Martial Arts and Mecha sections, well I have not had a chance 
to get into those yet, but I have lightly scanned through them once or 
twice.  From what I can see of the Martial Arts, yes I do agree that 
"Breakfall" should be a common skill rather than a Martial Art; it does 
not take much to learn how to fall "correctly."  I would have also 
preferred to seem some packages of various Martial Arts styles, much 
like what was written up in the Ultimate Martial Artist.  I will fully 
admit that I have not even looked closely enough to give a good opinion 
of the Mecha/Mekton section. 
 
    The Complication/Disadvantage section is written rather better than 
others.  While I am not saying it lacks typos or conflicts with the game 
system, I am saying that they more general way of taking a Disadvantage 
is a nice improvement in my book.  The idea that a Secret ID can vary 
now on how many friends, relatives, etc may come knocking or who cares 
is a nice concept.  The Social Disadvantages were also a good addition 
to help fully flesh out a character. 
 
    Overall I have to agree that the book does have large potential, but 
could do with an errata and possible rewrite in some areas.  Other parts 
of the game system do need to be tested a little more throroughly, or 
looked into at least.  One concept that did catch my eye in the Combat 
section was the Alternative Speed Chart.  I have always had a problem 
with combat being so slow that we can only have one possibly two fights 
per game.  I am thinking of trying this Alternative in a regular 
Champions game just to see if it might work. 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:38:07 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Wed, 21 May 1997, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
 
> Alright, I don't know the books, but from the description Michael Surbrook 
> gave he seems simple.  One power: 
>  
> VPP (100-300 base, however powerful he needs to be, you know the books, you 
> tell me) Cosmic(+1), Can only change between games (-1/2), No Conscious 
> Control (-2). 
>  
> Throw in the LS: Needs no sleep (-1/2 plot device limitation) 
 
The problem is, is that the Sleeper changes *completely* each time he 
wakes.  It's more like a 'cosmic' multiform, in which there are an 
infinate number of forms, each usable only once.  There is also the fact 
that Sleeper can be anywhere from 50 to 500 points when he wakes up.  
 
He's a great 'plot' device character, and certainly a GM's dream, but I'd 
never really allow him as a PC... too much of a head ache, and his falling 
asleep for weeks at a time certainly would make including him into 
adventures difficult. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:31:44 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:56 AM 5/21/97 -0700, Nic Neidenbach wrote: 
>One of my favorites is from an issue of the Hulk where he was on a 
>battlefield, carrying a huge energy cannon over his shoulder. The gun made 
>this huge Ba-Chooom! noise whenever it fired. 
> 
>At one point, the cannon ran out of ammo, and the Hulk said, "Empty.. I 
>really liked that great Ba-Choom noise." 
> 
>Note, I don't remember the quote directly, just the general idea. :) 
 
Ah, it's nice to see someone else remembering the classics. ;]  A group I 
used to play with officially renamed the VIPER Mauler cannon the "Ba-choom 
Gun" after this issue came out. 
 
-- 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:02:57 -0700 
From: Jim <champion@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Hi everyone!  I am gettting a final draft of my HeroDeck ready for 
web-publishing, and thought I'd add a flavor line to the cards so 
that with each card comes a "traditional" comic book sound, 
like 
 
	T H W A A P!				KA-BOOM! 
 
or others like that. 
 
I'm interested in collecting as many differect Comic Book Sounds as 
possible, from Big Hit Sounds, to Big MISS sounds... to "I'm Stunned" 
kind of sounds, etc. 
 
I remember people were exchanging this some time ago on the list, but I can't 
find them anywhere. 
 
I'd love to see your favorites, and add them to the cards!  Send away!  ;-) 
 
Thanks 
Jim 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR  USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net 
Castle Game Knight:           http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk 
Join the Circle of HEROs:     http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh 
----------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:30:52 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
On Wed, 21 May 1997, Jim wrote: 
 
> Hi everyone!  I am gettting a final draft of my HeroDeck ready for 
> web-publishing, and thought I'd add a flavor line to the cards so 
> that with each card comes a "traditional" comic book sound, 
> like 
>  
> 	T H W A A P!				KA-BOOM! 
>  
> or others like that. 
>  
> I'm interested in collecting as many differect Comic Book Sounds as 
> possible, from Big Hit Sounds, to Big MISS sounds... to "I'm Stunned" 
> kind of sounds, etc. 
>  
> I remember people were exchanging this some time ago on the list, but I can't 
> find them anywhere. 
>  
> I'd love to see your favorites, and add them to the cards!  Send away!  ;-) 
 
You should check out the Dictionary of Comic Book words at  
http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn. Not only is it a great  
collection of sound effect words, it cites where & when they were  
(first?) used! 
 
 
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:56:03 -0700 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:02 AM 5/21/97 -0700, Jim wrote: 
>Hi everyone!  I am gettting a final draft of my HeroDeck ready for 
web-publishing, and thought I'd add a flavor line to the cards so that with 
each card comes a "traditional" comic book sound, like 
> 
>	T H W A A P!				KA-BOOM! 
> 
>or others like that. 
> 
>I'm interested in collecting as many differect Comic Book Sounds as 
possible, from Big Hit Sounds, to Big MISS sounds... to "I'm Stunned" kind 
of sounds, etc. 
> 
>I remember people were exchanging this some time ago on the list, but I 
can't find them anywhere. 
> 
 
One of my favorites is from an issue of the Hulk where he was on a 
battlefield, carrying a huge energy cannon over his shoulder. The gun made 
this huge Ba-Chooom! noise whenever it fired. 
 
At one point, the cannon ran out of ammo, and the Hulk said, "Empty.. I 
really liked that great Ba-Choom noise." 
 
Note, I don't remember the quote directly, just the general idea. :) 
 
-Nic 
 
 
                +-------------------------------------------------+ 
                |               naneiden@iswest.com               | 
                |         http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/        | 
                |     "Kame...hame..ha!" - Goku, Gohan & Goten    | 
                +-------------------------------------------------+ 
 
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <psyche@ionsys.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:40:25 -0400 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>One of my favorites is from an issue of the Hulk where he was on a 
>battlefield, carrying a huge energy cannon over his shoulder. The gun  
>made this huge Ba-Chooom! noise whenever it fired. 
> 
>At one point, the cannon ran out of ammo, and the Hulk said, "Empty.. I 
>really liked that great Ba-Choom noise." 
> 
>Note, I don't remember the quote directly, just the general idea. :) 
 
Then there's always the "THOOMP!!" noise which became so loved (or rather 
we loved to hate it) in one of our campaigns.  It was the sound of one of 
the bad guy's Entangle attacks - a huge shotgun-like weapon that when it 
shot the Entangle made that noise.  By the end of the campaign, just making 
that noise was enough to make us cringe and look for cover.  :) 
 
Lisa Hartjes 
 
psyche@ionsys.com 
Home:  http://www.ionsys.com/~psyche 
Work:  http://web.idirect.com/~ncg 
 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:16:43 -0700 
Subject: Real Martial Arts 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-54 
From: tamolyn@juno.com (Michael S Mears) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
All right. 
 
Since I have been told now on several occasions that I should not write 
"one-liners", I will now lecture at length.  I have tried to respond 
succinctly in the past, as is my wont.  However, in the interests of 
polite discourse, I will curb my tendency not to wander. 
 
I have been studying the martial arts since I was five years old.  I 
have, in that time, studied Kodokan judo, Shotokan karate, two different 
schools of Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Jeet Kune Do.  I have also 
fenced, boxed, and wrestled. 
 
I get sick of people who don't know speaking. 
 
1.  Before you use any grappling attack, you must have your opponent 
off-guard.  No, you do not simply shoot on a Thai-boxer.  However, when 
the opportunity arises, taking a Thai-boxer to the ground is your optimal 
strategy. 
 
2.  If you study only kicking, or only punching, or only wrestling, you 
are a sucker.  You _must_ expand your ability.  The aforementioned 
Thai-boxer, if he had wrestling experience, would be able to counter a 
shoot, or escape from the ground, in order to continue to use his boxing 
skills. 
 
3.  No one art has the answers.  If one art had all the answers, no one 
would study anything else. 
 
4.  Jeet Kune Do is a concept, not an art.  Students are encouraged to 
study other arts, and incorporate useful concepts and movements.  In a 
sense, JKD is the only scientific approach to the martial arts.  Too many 
people take their martial arts on faith, without applying their reason to 
what is taught.  They get into endless arguments about whose art is 
better that resemble religious arguments, because neither side has any 
basis for argument other than faith.  De gustibus non disputatem est. 
 
5.  If you don't apply reason to your art, then you will lose to someone 
who does.  If you take your art on faith, without question, you will lose 
to someone who makes a rational inquiry.  You get locked into patterns 
and are at the mercy of someone trained to break those patterns.  It is 
for this reason that JKD has no forms. 
 
6.  It is extremely difficult to translate real fighting into a 
role-playing game.  Even Hero, which does it well, does not cover most of 
the problems.  In fact, it probably should not, as real fighting is an 
intellectual exercise that requires too much work for someone who is, in 
essence, at play. 
 
7.  If you don't try to gauge your opponent, you suffer from what 
Clausewitz called "the fog of war."  You must try, as much as possible, 
to _out-think_ an enemy -- especially one you cannot beat toe-to-toe.   
 
Michael Scott Mears 
TamOlyn@juno.com 
SB,>-- 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:58:52 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:02 AM 5/21/97 -0700, Jim wrote: 
>Hi everyone!  I am gettting a final draft of my HeroDeck ready for 
web-publishing, and thought I'd add a flavor line to the cards so that with 
each card comes a "traditional" comic book sound, like 
> 
> T H W A A P!    KA-BOOM! 
> 
>or others like that. 
> 
>I'm interested in collecting as many differect Comic Book Sounds as 
possible, from Big Hit Sounds, to Big MISS sounds... to "I'm Stunned" kind 
of sounds, etc. 
 
   Big Hit Sounds:  Bang!  Bop!  Crunch!  Dong!  Kazow!  Klang!  Ouch!  Pow! 
Strike!  Wham!  Whang!  Zap!  Zowie! 
   Big Miss Sounds:  Airball!  Whizz!  Whoosh! 
   Sounds of Pain:  Gnungh!  Homna-homna...  Ohhh...  Ouch! 
 
>I remember people were exchanging this some time ago on the list, but I 
can't find them anywhere. 
 
   Really?  I don't remember it, but maybe I was off the list at the time.... 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 01:30 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote: 
>You should check out the Dictionary of Comic Book words at  
>http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn. Not only is it a great  
>collection of sound effect words, it cites where & when they were  
>(first?) used! 
 
   I checked this link, and got a "Not Found" error.  Are you sure this is 
accurate?  (I'm very interested in this one, Bill!)   :-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Humor (slightly off topic) Long 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:50 PM 5/20/97 -0600, Curtis Gibson wrote: 
>I know this is a little off topic but I thought the list at large would 
>like this.... 
 
   This is only marginally off topic, and we're on a light spell right now, 
so why not?   :-] 
 
>You might be a gamer if... 
> 
>...losing your dice bag would be a serious financial blow. 
> 
>        ... " what do you mean dice bag ?" ( singular ) 
 
         ... losing your dice bag *was* a serious financial blow. 
 
>...you talk about your characters as if they are real people. 
 
         ... your characters talk about you as if you aren't. 
 
>...you consider Altoids, Salt-&-Vinegar chips, and blue Teeni Hugs a 
>balanced diet. (or even an acceptable combination.) 
> 
>        ...pizza, Coke, cheese puffs, and Sanex  
> 
>        ...pringles, chocolet covered penuts, and moutain dew 
    
   Pepsi, bubble gum, Snickers, and egg foo yung.  (At the Game Alliance of 
Salem, these were the Four Basic Food Groups.) 
 
>...the phrase "Collect Call of Cthulhu" brings back fond memories. 
 
         ...you own a "Cthulhu for President" bumper sticker. 
 
>...you've thought of four or five additions to this list. 
 
   No comment.   :-] 
 
>...someone is attempting to explain the floor plan of a building to you 
>and 
>you immediately start thinking in terms of 10x10 squares...or 6'x6' 
>hexes. 
> 
>        ...Or in terms of loot and monsters. 
 
...you see a traffic cop parked by the side of the road and you immediately 
recognize his radar gun as Sense Movement, at Range, Discriminatory, OAF, 
Single Target Only (-1). 
 
         ...you know what all of that meant. 
 
...a bully starts harassing you and, just in case it comes to blows, you 
immediately try to Find Weakness on him. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:06:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Wed, 21 May 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
 
> At 01:30 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote: 
> >You should check out the Dictionary of Comic Book words at  
> >http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn. Not only is it a great  
> >collection of sound effect words, it cites where & when they were  
> >(first?) used! 
>  
>    I checked this link, and got a "Not Found" error.  Are you sure this is 
> accurate?  (I'm very interested in this one, Bill!)   :-] 
 
Yes, the address works, I went there.  Make sure the end of the address 
reads "kjohn" and not "kjohn."  Not the period that shouldn't be used. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:47:35 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 05:06 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>On Wed, 21 May 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>> At 01:30 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote: 
>> >You should check out the Dictionary of Comic Book words at  
>> >http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn. Not only is it a great  
>> >collection of sound effect words, it cites where & when they were  
>> >(first?) used! 
>>  
>>    I checked this link, and got a "Not Found" error.  Are you sure this is 
>> accurate?  (I'm very interested in this one, Bill!)   :-] 
> 
>Yes, the address works, I went there.  Make sure the end of the address 
>reads "kjohn" and not "kjohn."  Not the period that shouldn't be used. 
 
   That was the problem, all right.  I was using Eudora Light, and just 
feeding the link directly to Netscape as you'd typed it.  I tried it again 
just how using the Copy feature, and I got it.  Thanks.   :-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:26:02 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Daniel Rothman <drothman@bah.com> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
On Wed, 21 May 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
 
> At 05:06 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> >On Wed, 21 May 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> >> At 01:30 PM 5/21/97 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote: 
> >> >You should check out the Dictionary of Comic Book words at  
> >> >http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn. Not only is it a great  
> >> >collection of sound effect words, it cites where & when they were  
> >> >(first?) used! 
> >>  
> >>    I checked this link, and got a "Not Found" error.  Are you sure this is 
> >> accurate?  (I'm very interested in this one, Bill!)   :-] 
> > 
> >Yes, the address works, I went there.  Make sure the end of the address 
> >reads "kjohn" and not "kjohn."  Not the period that shouldn't be used. 
>  
>    That was the problem, all right.  I was using Eudora Light, and just 
> feeding the link directly to Netscape as you'd typed it.  I tried it again 
> just how using the Copy feature, and I got it.  Thanks.   :-] 
 
You might be a geek if: 
...you edited the URL correctly when you copied it, without realizing it 
 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:13:24 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: koko@tir.com (Unverified) 
From: koko@tir.com (koko) 
Subject: borg 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Has anyone done a write-up of the different races from star trek, such as 
vulcans, klingons, the borg, ect??? 
If so could you please send them to me at koko@tir.com when you get a chance? 
Thanks. 
 
koko@tir.com 
 
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com 
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:32:20 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, to bring the intellectual level of this DOWN (if you can believe it) in 
an early issue of DC's Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew, CC flies by 
this huge Mecha-ish creature (the Crew was dimension hopping IIRC) and hits 
it as he goes by (this is after several of the other Crew members have gone 
down to this critter {or just before they do . . .}) and the sound effect is 
HIT!!!! and CC thinks: "hit?" 
 
BeerCarboy@AOL.com                               Carter Humphrey 
 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 06:05:13 -0500 (CDT) 
Posted-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 06:05:13 -0500 (CDT) 
X-Sender: rvb@visi.com 
From: Rob <rvb@visi.com> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Not that it competes with an entire website, but one of my personal 
favourite "sounds of pain", from, of course, the Hulk (vs. UFO Ray) being 
shot in the back with a massive energy attack: 
 
        "Aaaarrrgggghhh! Higher! Higher! To the left! Ah. That's better." 
 
(Or words to that effect.) 
 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:58:31 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> 
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
On Wed, 21 May 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote: 
 
> Okay, to bring the intellectual level of this DOWN (if you can believe it) in 
> an early issue of DC's Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew, CC flies by 
> this huge Mecha-ish creature (the Crew was dimension hopping IIRC) and hits 
> it as he goes by (this is after several of the other Crew members have gone 
> down to this critter {or just before they do . . .}) and the sound effect is 
> HIT!!!! and CC thinks: "hit?" 
>  
 
One of my favorite uses of a sound effect was back in the great  
Levitz/Giffen run on the Legion of Super-Heroes. As I recall the scene,  
Wildfire's girlfriend Dawnstar had just left him, largely due to the fact  
that his body was composed of formless energy. In frustration, Wildfire  
blew himself up, destroying his containment suit. The sound effect to the  
explosion, written in large sound effect letters, was "DAMN!"  
 
From: boaters@ix.netcom.com 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:58:42 -0400 
CC: AMP2112@aol.com 
Subject: [Fwd: You might be a gamer if...] 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The fwd. part is a friends own extra addings to the list.   
 
You might be a gamer if........ 
 
	You have ever told your girlfriend that you will be back in a segment. 
 
	you have ever actually held a martial arts tounament just to see if 
people really only have a 2-4 Spd. 
 
	you still own a first ed. of some old gaming book even though you know 
that you will never use it. 
 
	you have the same character written up once in enough systems to 
wallpaper your bathroom. 
 
	you know that if you want to run a 6hr. game to make it 9hrs so that 
you can actually play for 6. 
 
	 
Ah there are so many more........ 
Return-Path: <chenszu@juno.com> 
Received: from x8.boston.juno.com (x8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.24]) by ixmail2.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom) 
	id WAA16100; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:26:53 -0700 (PDT) 
Received: (from chenszu@juno.com) by x8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) 
	id BKS17727; Wed, 09 Apr 1997 01:12:37 EDT 
To: boaters@ix.netcom.com 
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:12:12 PST 
Subject: You might be a gamer if... 
Message-ID: <19970409.011213.7110.1.chenszu@juno.com> 
X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-10,12-13,15-16,18-19,21-24 
From: chenszu@juno.com (Jennifer J O'Malley) 
 
1) Every person that you have ever dated games. 
 
2) You met your current love interest  AT a game. 
 
3) You still game with your ex(s). 
 
4) You have a prepared speech in defense of gaming. 
  
5) You're told your parents more than once that gaming has nothing to do 
with Satanism. 
 
6) You've watched children on a playground, and decided that they have 
phantom hit points. 
 
7) You've looked at everyday objects, say a very large Shakespeare book, 
and decided how much damage it would inflict if used as a melee weapon. 
 
8) You say things like, "I'm taking damage", when something upsets your 
sensibilities. 
 
9) You're ever said anything like, "Man, I have an 8 Dex", when you trip 
or fall. 
 
10) Your dice bag CAN be used as a melee weapon.      
    
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com> 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:45:01 -0400 
Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Organization: Prometheus Corp. 
Lines: 27 
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as3s04.erols.com 
Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as3s04.erols.com 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> 
> Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> 
> Subject: Re: Flavor Lines! 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>  
> On Wed, 21 May 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> > Okay, to bring the intellectual level of this DOWN (if you can believe it) in 
> > an early issue of DC's Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew, CC flies by 
> > this huge Mecha-ish creature (the Crew was dimension hopping IIRC) and hits 
> > it as he goes by (this is after several of the other Crew members have gone 
> > down to this critter {or just before they do . . .}) and the sound effect is 
> > HIT!!!! and CC thinks: "hit?" 
> > 
>  
> One of my favorite uses of a sound effect was back in the great 
> Levitz/Giffen run on the Legion of Super-Heroes. As I recall the scene, 
> Wildfire's girlfriend Dawnstar had just left him, largely due to the fact 
> that his body was composed of formless energy. In frustration, Wildfire 
> blew himself up, destroying his containment suit. The sound effect to the 
> explosion, written in large sound effect letters, was "DAMN!" 
 
I remember a Nightcrawler story that was vaguely derivative of Burroughs'  
John Carter books. In it, when a airship exploded the sound effect was "BARSOOM".  
I was definately ROTFL. 
 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:36:21 -0700 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com 
Subject: Re: Real Martial Arts 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Michael S Mears wrote: 
  
<Michael's experience snipped.> 
  
> 1.  Before you use any grappling attack, you must have your opponent 
> off-guard.  No, you do not simply shoot on a Thai-boxer.  However, when 
> the opportunity arises, taking a Thai-boxer to the ground is your optimal 
> strategy. 
 
When I first saw "shoot" as a term on the list, I thought whoever said 
it meant shoot their legs with a gun... 
 
  
> 4.  Jeet Kune Do is a concept, not an art.  Students are encouraged to 
> study other arts, and incorporate useful concepts and movements.  In a 
> sense, JKD is the only scientific approach to the martial arts. 
 
American Kenpo does a lot with the scientific approach. I would say it's 
more the student & the instructor that determine how much tradition and 
how much thinking go into learning an art. 
 
<The rest of Michael's comments agreed with and snipped.> 
 
-Mark 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:17:23 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Shape - shift persistent, no conscious control as to change. 
After asking for a sleeper writeup, I remembered that I had actually  
made one up.  What I did was give the cosmic power pool with limitations, 
then give an activation roll for every 10 points, in order to simulate 
the range of powers.  Then I gave physical limitations and distinctive 
features with a 'activation roll' to simulate occasional joker disadvantages, 
and decreased the points for the disadvantages appropriately. 
 
 
Curt Hicks 
 
 
 
>  
> On Wed, 21 May 1997, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
>  
> > Alright, I don't know the books, but from the description Michael Surbrook 
> > gave he seems simple.  One power: 
> >  
> > VPP (100-300 base, however powerful he needs to be, you know the books, you 
> > tell me) Cosmic(+1), Can only change between games (-1/2), No Conscious 
> > Control (-2). 
> >  
> > Throw in the LS: Needs no sleep (-1/2 plot device limitation) 
>  
> The problem is, is that the Sleeper changes *completely* each time he 
> wakes.  It's more like a 'cosmic' multiform, in which there are an 
> infinate number of forms, each usable only once.  There is also the fact 
> that Sleeper can be anywhere from 50 to 500 points when he wakes up.  
>  
> He's a great 'plot' device character, and certainly a GM's dream, but I'd 
> never really allow him as a PC... too much of a head ache, and his falling 
> asleep for weeks at a time certainly would make including him into 
> adventures difficult. 
>  
 
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:32:11 -0400 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Sleeper 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 10:38 AM 5/21/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>On Wed, 21 May 1997, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
> 
>> Alright, I don't know the books, but from the description Michael Surbrook 
>> gave he seems simple.  One power: 
>>  
>> VPP (100-300 base, however powerful he needs to be, you know the books, you 
>> tell me) Cosmic(+1), Can only change between games (-1/2), No Conscious 
>> Control (-2). 
>>  
>> Throw in the LS: Needs no sleep (-1/2 plot device limitation) 
> 
>The problem is, is that the Sleeper changes *completely* each time he 
 
How does VPP not handle "changes *completely*"?  Are you following the 
silly rule that you can't put characteristics in a VPP?  Then buy all of 
his (her?) stats up to 100 and put a -1 limitation on the stats "Only 
available in some forms."  (use activation as a guideline: if his STR is 
>20 all the time, you have no lim.  if STR >30 ~90% of the time assume -1/4 
on the 10 points from 21-30.  if STR >40 ~75% assume -1/2 on these 10 
points, etc.  Personally, I would just put a simple -1 or something on the 
whole stat which includes the -1/4 only this hero ID.) 
 
>wakes.  It's more like a 'cosmic' multiform, in which there are an 
>infinate number of forms, each usable only once. 
 
That's what No Conscious Control does for the VPP. 
 
>  There is also the fact 
>that Sleeper can be anywhere from 50 to 500 points when he wakes up.  
 
okay, so the VPP is 500 base points. 
 
>He's a great 'plot' device character, and certainly a GM's dream, but I'd 
>never really allow him as a PC... too much of a head ache, and his falling 
>asleep for weeks at a time certainly would make including him into 
>adventures difficult. 
 
But he makes a great visiting-player-needs-a-character character. 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:22:10 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
you do the same!!! they share a common ancestry, nothing more. it 
is just plain stupid to think they are in any way related. 
 
 
 
At 03:04 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>I beg to differ.  Read the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ.  Read the history of 
>Judo and Jujitsu. 
> 
>At 02:36 PM 5/20/9 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:28:46 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
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WRONG AGAIN! the kido styles originated in korea, and were ripped off from the japanese. 
it is not the 'sport form'- there is hardly any relationship at all. 
 
 
At 03:38 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>At 02:36 PM 5/20/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>At 01:27 AM 5/19/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>>>At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>>>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
>>>hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can 
>kick.  
>>> 
>>>Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
>>> 
>>WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
> 
>Well, gee aren't you just captain kung fu?  Judo was derived from juijitsu 
>in the 1800s.  Juijitsu is the form from which Judo, Aikido and Hapkido all 
>came.   
> 
>From the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ: 
>"Judo is derived from Jujutsu (see Jujutsu). It was created by Professor 
>Jigoro Kano who was born in Japan in 1860 and who died in 1938 after a 
>lifetime of promoting Judo. Mastering several styles of jujutsu in his 
>youth he began to develop his own system based on modern sports principles. 
>In 1882 he founded the Kodokan Judo Institute in Tokyo where he began 
>teaching and which still is the international authority for Judo. The name 
>Judo was chosen because it means the "gentle way". Kano emphasised the 
>larger educational value of training in attack and defense so that it could 
>be a path or way of life that all people could participate in and benefit 
>from. He eliminated some of the traditional jujutsu techniques and changed 
>training methods so that most of the moves could be done with full force to 
>create a decisive victory without injury. " 
> 
 
and hence created a different art! 
 
>Gee, create a decisive victory without injury? Sounds like a sport to me. 
 
WRONG. are you suggesting tear gas is a sport? 
and the idea is so it can be practiced effectivley without limiting its potential. 
 
 
>I get really sick of all the "my Flowering Pig kungfu is better than your 
>Festering Boil style."  No one style is the be all end all of Martial Arts. 
> Every move has a counter move and many factors apply to the outcome of a 
>fight.  Strength and resistance to pain are two of the greatest, as are the 
>rules of contact.  How do you think Mike Tyson was able to defeat more 
>technical fighters?  ALL styles have their strengths AND weaknesses.   
> 
 
yes. but there ARE more and less practical styles!  
 
 
 
>There is also the factor of the instuctor's teaching style.  You may find 
>that dojo A of, say, Tae Kwon Do, is nothing more than preparation for 
>sport competition and dojo B teaches the asthetics and philosophy of Tae 
>Kwon Do.  Which is better?  Depends on the individual taking the 
>instruction.  Any supergrand master can be defeated.  Royce Gracie has been 
>defeated, big deal.   
> 
> 
 
*sigh* the priginal question reguarded practical fightiing techniques tought to  
agents.  
 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:32:01 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
At 07:05 PM 5/21/97 +0200, you wrote: 
>On Tue, 20 May 1997 jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
> 
>> >Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
>> > 
>> WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
> 
>Oh. So the fact that all judoka admit/actively say that their form, judo, 
>is a toned-down, less lethal "sport" version of jujitsu is insignificant, 
>next to your total knowledge of jujitsu and judo? 
> 
>                  
ALL? WOW!! i must be talking to a real live psycic!! such comments are 
over simplified, and do not take into account the FUNCTIONS of the styles, 
only their origins. 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:45:40 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: Real Martial Arts 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
At 02:36 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote: 
>Michael S Mears wrote: 
>  
><Michael's experience snipped.> 
>  
>> 1.  Before you use any grappling attack, you must have your opponent 
>> off-guard.  No, you do not simply shoot on a Thai-boxer.  However, when 
>> the opportunity arises, taking a Thai-boxer to the ground is your optimal 
>> strategy. 
> 
>When I first saw "shoot" as a term on the list, I thought whoever said 
>it meant shoot their legs with a gun... 
> 
>  
>> 4.  Jeet Kune Do is a concept, not an art.  Students are encouraged to 
>> study other arts, and incorporate useful concepts and movements.  In a 
>> sense, JKD is the only scientific approach to the martial arts. 
> 
>American Kenpo does a lot with the scientific approach. I would say it's 
>more the student & the instructor that determine how much tradition and 
>how much thinking go into learning an art. 
> 
 
all styl;es are scientific. but some people are elitist with their 
views, such as the boys at most JKD styles. 
 
 
><The rest of Michael's comments agreed with and snipped.> 
> 
>-Mark 
> 
 
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:05:40 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
Mr Jones, 
 
If you feel you just HAVE to flame somebody, do it in private email.  
The rest of us don't need to see your immature rantings. 
 
And yes, I know I'm being a hypocrite sending this to the list, but 
every time I've sent private email to Mr Jones in the past, he has 
echoed it back to the list ANYWAY, so I figured I would save him the 
step. 
 
Todd 
 
 
jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>  
> you do the same!!! they share a common ancestry, nothing more. it is 
> just plain stupid to think they are in any way related. 
>  
> At 03:04 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote: 
> >I beg to differ.  Read the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ.  Read the history of 
> >Judo and Jujitsu. 
> > 
> >At 02:36 PM 5/20/9 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:49:36 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
I got a great idea: Let's drop the argument of which martial art style is 
best, and get back to discussing Champions and the Hero System, or at the 
very least, some *more* related to comic books. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:52:33 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Cyclone 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
CYCLONE 
(Vernon Henry Carlysle) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Cyclone is moderatly tall and muscular, standing 5'11" and weighing 170 
lbs.  A well known ace from the West Coast, he possess the abilty to 
create and control winds.  Thus, he can fly, generate powerful wind gusts, 
pick up objects, are create a defensive shield.  He has a daughter, 
Mistral, with virtually the same powers as himself. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		17		21 
Con		18		16 
Body		12		4 
Int		15		5 
Ego		13		6 
Pre		18		8 
Com		18		4 
PD		6		3 
ED		5		1 
Spd		4		13 
Rec		9		0 
End		46		5 
Stun		30		2 
Char Total			91 
Power Total			211 
Total Cost			302 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
30	EC: Air Control 
30	12d6 EB (physical), END 6 
40	8d6 EB, (physical), Double KB, END 7 
23	35 STR TK, 1/2 END, Requires large amounts of avaliable air, can 
	only really be used outside (-1/2), END 3 
20	20 PD/ED Force Field, 1/2 END, +2 DCV, Requires large amounts of 
	avaliable air, can only really be used outside (-1/2), END 2 
20	24" Flight (48" noncombat), 1/2 END, Requires large amounts of 
	avaliable air, can only really be used outside (-1/2), END 2 
 
9	Armor: 6 DEF, Act 14-, OIF: Body Armor 
3	IR Vision, OIF: Helmet 
1	Radio Hearing, OIF: Helmet 
 
3	Bureacratics 13- 
7	High Society 15- 
3	KS: Golfing 12- 
3	PS: Play golf 12- 
1	TF: Parachute 
5	Trading 14- 
1	WF: Shotguns 
12	CSL: +4 with Wind Control EC 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
15	Psych: Egotistical 
15	Psych: Glory hound, likes to be in the media eye 
10	Public ID 
157	Experience 
 
(Cyclone created by Steve Perrin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:54:32 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Fadeout 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
FADEOUT 
(Philip Cunningham) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Fadeout is tall and athletic, standing 6' and weighing 170 lbs.  He is 
blonde and blue eyed, with handsome features and excellent taste in 
clothing.  His power is the ability to turn invisible.  It should be noted 
that his the 'fringe' effect on his invisibility is not a fringe outlining 
his body, but the fact that he must keep his eyes visible in order to see. 
He can make his eyes invisible, and lose the fringe effect, but he will 
also be blind as well.   
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		16		18 
Con		15		10 
Body		13		6 
Int		18		8 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		15		5 
Com		14		2 
PD		6		3 
ED		4		1 
Spd		4		14 
Rec		6		0 
End		30		0 
Stun		28		0 
Char Total			78 
Power Total			132 
Total Cost			210 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	MA: Kung Fu 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Escape  +0 OCV  +0 DCV  28 STR vs Grabs 
5	Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  3 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Punch  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike 
 
45	Invisibility: Sight Group, 0 END 
6	Enhanced Perception: Hearing +3 
 
3	Contact: Kien Phuc 12- 
5	Wealth 
5	Breakfall 13- 
3	High Society 12- 
2	KS: Kung Fu 11- 
3	KS: Shadow Fist Society 13- 
4	KS: Yoga 14- 
7	Lockpicking 14- 
3	Persuasion 12- 
3	Security Systems 13- 
11	Stealth 16- 
5	Streetwise 13- 
3	SL: +1 with all PRE skills 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
15	Psych: Greedy 
15	Psych: Very ambitious 
10	Watched: Shadowfist Society (MoPow) 11- 
65	Experience 
 
(Fadeout created by George R R Martin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:56:42 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Gimili 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
GIMILI 
(Tom Miller) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Gimili is a short, barrel-shested joker dwarf.  He stands 4' tall and 
weighs 130 lbs, with powerfully built arms and legs.  His hair is thick 
and reddish brown.  Gimili is a very angry individual, and tends to prefer 
radical politics and extreme measures when fighting for joker's rights. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		20		10 
Dex		15		15 
Con		20		20 
Body		15		10 
Int		14		4 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		18		8 
Com		10		0 
PD		8		4 
ED		6		2 
Spd		3		5 
Rec		8		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		35		0 
Char Total			86 
Power Total			20 
Total Cost			106 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	Contact: Jokers for a Just Society 12- 
4	KS: Politics 13- 
3	Oratory 13- 
3	Persuasion 13- 
3	Streetwise 13- 
1	WF: Pistols 
3	CSL: +1 with Block, Grab, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	DF: Short, barrel chested joker 
10	Phys: Dwarfism, 4' tall, 130 lbs 
10	Psych: Despises 'normals' 
10	Psych: Bad tempered 
15	Rep: Violent joker terrorist (ext) 11- 
 
(Gimili created by Stephen Leigh, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:59:48 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Mackie Messer 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
MACKIE MESSER 
(Detlev Mackintosh aka 'Mack the Knife') 
 
Designers Notes: 
Mackie is a thin, pale, hunchbacked little man.  He stands 5'7" and weighs 
all of 125 lbs.  He has straw colored hair, sunken cheeks, bad skin, and 
is prone to facial tics.  He is usually very scruffily dressed. 
Unfortunatly, Mackie also happens to be a very potent ace.  His power is 
the ability to resonate his body's molecular structure, allowing him to 
walk through walls, as well as granting him the ability to make his hands 
vibrate so rapidly that they can cut through anything.  Note that Mackie 
can use this power while remaning Desolid.  Also note his Damage Shield, 
which represents his using his vibrating hands to block an opponent's 
strikes.  
  
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		8		-2 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		14		8 
Body		12		4 
Int		10		0 
Ego		10		0 
Pre		10		0 
Com		8		-1 
PD		4		2 
ED		4		1 
Spd		3		11 
Rec		5		0 
End		28		0 
Stun		21		0 
Char Total			20 
Power Total			316 
Total Cost			336 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
135	3d6 HKA, AP, Penetrating, Affects Solid, 0 END, Not vs Force 
	Fields (-1/2) 
56	1 1/2d6 RKA, Penetrating, Damage Shield, Affects Solid, 0 END, Not 
	vs Force Fields (-1/2), Must be aware of attack (-1/2) 
60	Desolidification: Affected by vibrational, sonic powers, 1/2 END, 
	END 2 
24	STR Affects Solid, 0 END 
 
3	Ambidexterity 
3	Contact: Senator Greg Hartman 12- 
1	KS: Politics 8- 
1	KS: Scrounging 8- 
9	Streetwise 14- 
1	Survival (city streets) 8- 
3	Lang: English (German native) 
20	CSL: +4 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
10	DF: Thin, pallid hunchback 
20	Psych: Hates just about everyone (Jews, jokers, homosexuals, 
	homeless, the rich) 
15	Psych: Sadistic, likes to instill fear and cause pain 
15	Psych: Likes to kill 
176	Experience 
 
(Mackie Messer created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: flacksd@evron.com 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 9:14:17 -0500 
Subject: RE:MELTING - resent 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 13 
 
I am resending this e-mail about melting.  It seems my e-mail server failed 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:36:44 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 01:28 PM 5/23/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>WRONG AGAIN! the kido styles originated in korea, and were ripped off from 
the japanese. 
>it is not the 'sport form'- there is hardly any relationship at all. 
 
And your sources are what? 
 
>At 03:38 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>>At 02:36 PM 5/20/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>>At 01:27 AM 5/19/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>>>>At 10:58 AM 5/17/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>>>>how about thai, cross-trained with judo? the best fighter is always a 
>>>>hybrid, and i don't mean those fat boys in the ucf who pretend they can 
>>kick.  
>>>> 
>>>>Um, just to point out something, judo is the sport form of juijitsu.  
>>>> 
>>>WRONG. jujitsu is a completly different art, and not nearly as effective. 
>> 
>>Well, gee aren't you just captain kung fu?  Judo was derived from juijitsu 
>>in the 1800s.  Juijitsu is the form from which Judo, Aikido and Hapkido all 
>>came.   
>> 
>>From the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ: 
>>"Judo is derived from Jujutsu (see Jujutsu). It was created by Professor 
>>Jigoro Kano who was born in Japan in 1860 and who died in 1938 after a 
>>lifetime of promoting Judo. Mastering several styles of jujutsu in his 
>>youth he began to develop his own system based on modern sports principles. 
>>In 1882 he founded the Kodokan Judo Institute in Tokyo where he began 
>>teaching and which still is the international authority for Judo. The name 
>>Judo was chosen because it means the "gentle way". Kano emphasised the 
>>larger educational value of training in attack and defense so that it could 
>>be a path or way of life that all people could participate in and benefit 
>>from. He eliminated some of the traditional jujutsu techniques and changed 
>>training methods so that most of the moves could be done with full force to 
>>create a decisive victory without injury. " 
>> 
> 
>and hence created a different art! 
> 
>>Gee, create a decisive victory without injury? Sounds like a sport to me. 
> 
>WRONG. are you suggesting tear gas is a sport? 
 
Yeah, I said that, uh huh, right.  Nice display of false logical deduction... 
 
>and the idea is so it can be practiced effectivley without limiting its 
potential. 
 
You were the one that mentioned tear gas.  I thought we were talking about 
martial arts. Also, did you catch the phrase in the above about 'MODERN 
SPORTS PRINCIPLES?'  
 
 
>>I get really sick of all the "my Flowering Pig kungfu is better than your 
>>Festering Boil style."  No one style is the be all end all of Martial Arts. 
>> Every move has a counter move and many factors apply to the outcome of a 
>>fight.  Strength and resistance to pain are two of the greatest, as are the 
>>rules of contact.  How do you think Mike Tyson was able to defeat more 
>>technical fighters?  ALL styles have their strengths AND weaknesses.   
>> 
> 
>yes. but there ARE more and less practical styles!  
> 
> 
> 
>>There is also the factor of the instuctor's teaching style.  You may find 
>>that dojo A of, say, Tae Kwon Do, is nothing more than preparation for 
>>sport competition and dojo B teaches the asthetics and philosophy of Tae 
>>Kwon Do.  Which is better?  Depends on the individual taking the 
>>instruction.  Any supergrand master can be defeated.  Royce Gracie has been 
>>defeated, big deal.   
>> 
>> 
> 
>*sigh* the priginal question reguarded practical fightiing techniques 
tought to  
>agents.  
> 
 
Yeah, and the answer to that is very little.  The type of agents in 
question get a basic self-defense training in their initial training, but 
move on to investigative and firearm techniques.  It is the individual that 
takes additional training upon himself.   
 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:35:41 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: How many d6 does a papaer airplane do? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
There is something I have never been able to determine satisfactorily, so I 
am seeking opinions from the group.  How do you figure out how much damage a 
thrown object will do when it hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
enough brick.  One option I had tried was to reverse the damage rules for 
hitting a solid object (ie 1d6 per body and DEF of the object thrown).  Also 
converting this damage to a killing equivalent if the object thrown was 
sharp or similarly appropriate). 
 
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:35:45 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Where can I find? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
My local hobby store just went out of business :( 
 
Can anyone recommend a good, reliable mail order source for Champions and 
hero resources.  I am also looking for a good mail order source of general 
RPG materials such as dice, hex paper and mats, and other materials. 
 
Please send me the name and address of the company and if they have an 800 # 
or E-mail address or URL that would also be appreciated.  I would rather not 
give my address at this time, but if you want to contact me by snail-mail 
let me know and I will send you my address directly. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:35:48 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an invasion. 
 
Here are some of my questions: 
 
What can I do to keep things moving? 
What can I do to keep it fun and not bogged down? 
What are some short cuts you have learned? 
What are some mistakes that I can avoid? 
 
Anything else you might think of would be appreciated. 
 
Oh' in referring to manuals take note that I do not have access to more than 
a handful of the newest books.  (ie. Champions version 1-4, C:TNM, and 
Allies and Enemies Assemble are about it.) 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:35:51 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Custom Character Drawing 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Over the last few years I have gotten into drawing pictures of mine and my 
friends characters.  I enjoy doing this and have considered offering to draw 
other peoples characters as well.  I usually work in pen and ink as well as 
colored pencil.  What I want to know is; is there an interest in this kind 
of work and what would be a fair price for and 8 1/2 X11 colored drawing. 
 
Feedback wanted. 
Also if you do something similar I would like to know how you handle matters. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:30:04 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papaer airplane do? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>There is something I have never been able to determine satisfactorily, so I 
>am seeking opinions from the group.  How do you figure out how much damage a 
>thrown object will do when it hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
>damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
>standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
>enough brick.  One option I had tried was to reverse the damage rules for 
>hitting a solid object (ie 1d6 per body and DEF of the object thrown).  Also 
>converting this damage to a killing equivalent if the object thrown was 
>sharp or similarly appropriate). 
 
   As far as I'm aware, there's no published rule covering this.  If there 
is, then ignore the rest of this post.   :-] 
   On the whole, I'd rule the opposite of what you say; that is, that 
objects do damage based on how much STR it takes to lift them.  Thus, if it 
takes 30 STR to lift an object, it does 6d6 damage when it hits. 
   Arguably, one could take a principle based on the Throwing Distance Table 
and assign the same proportions to damage; thus, if an object is either 
balanced or aerodynamic, the damage doubles, and if it's both, it 
quadruples.  Thus a billiard ball (which takes a *lot* less than 15 STR) 
could do 3d6 damage. 
   Than again, one could also put STR into the throw, up to doubling the 
damage from that.  Whether that STR is the STR behind the throw, the STR 
above what's needed to lift the object in the first place, or whatever 
amount of STR the character wants to use would probably depend on the flavor 
of the campaign (heroic vs superheroic, for instance). 
   Of course, the only hard and fast rule about this is that it's the GM's 
decision. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
>have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
>would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
invasion. 
> 
>Here are some of my questions: 
> 
>What can I do to keep things moving? 
 
   There are all sorts of things you can do here.  If things seem to be 
going too smoothly for the PCs, have a patrol of alien guards happen upon 
them.  (How much the PCs are surprised by this should depend on the story 
needs; the scene could become just a "Quick -- hide!" kind of encounter.) 
   Plan the major sequence of events in advance, knowing what will happen if 
the PCs don't intervene, how the enemies will react to the PCs' 
intervention, and so forth.  When things start slowing down, go on ahead 
with the next phase of the story.  That doesn't mean to not give them 
breathing room or time to recover their wits; pauses like that can be just 
as interesting as action.  It's just when things are looking boring that you 
should give them a scare or a surprise. 
 
>What can I do to keep it fun and not bogged down? 
 
   Don't be afraid to say, "Well, this isn't working, so let's end it."  For 
example, if the PCs' opponents are clearly beaten, they'll probably know it, 
and chances are against their fighting to the bitter end.  They might 
surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
 
>What are some short cuts you have learned? 
 
   I don't have any, so I can't help you there. 
 
>What are some mistakes that I can avoid? 
 
   Most of the mistakes I've made are addressed in the Campaigning sections 
of the Champions and C:NM rulebooks.  There is one extra thing that I think 
will help for a long, involved scenario like this, though:  whenever an 
event is planned, go in ahead of time knowing just what you'll do if the PCs 
succeed in the encounter, and what you'll do if they fail.  Think through 
intermediate levels of success vs failure (such as capturing the terrorists 
but failing to locate and disarm the bomb).  If you make a rough flowchart 
of the events on this basis, your scenario will be that much better. 
 
>Anything else you might think of would be appreciated. 
 
   And I hope this works for you.   :-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:55:46 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net 
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins) 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papaer airplane do? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>There is something I have never been able to determine satisfactorily, so I 
>am seeking opinions from the group.  How do you figure out how much damage a 
>thrown object will do when it hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
>damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
>standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
>enough brick.  One option I had tried was to reverse the damage rules for 
>hitting a solid object (ie 1d6 per body and DEF of the object thrown).  Also 
>converting this damage to a killing equivalent if the object thrown was 
>sharp or similarly appropriate). 
 
Any non-focus object (i.e. scenery) can only do as much dice of damage as 
its BODY + DEF, regardless of the STR of the user. So if I pick up a piece 
of paper on a superheroic (or heroic) battlefield and make a paper airplane, 
I could do a max of 1D6 damage with it (piece of paper is probably 0 DEF, 1 
BODY - note that dirt is 0 DEF too). You might be able to poke somebody in 
the eye and do damage, but that's about it. 
 
OTOH, if you bought a 3D6 HKA, Ranged with 'paper airplanes' as your SFX, 
then Bob's your uncle - you could do as much as 6D6 RKA, provided you've got 
enough STR. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
"All right, all right! I'll sit on your crummy lap! Anything!! Just stop 
disintigrating me!!" 
-Gold Digger 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
John D. Prins 
jprins@interhop.net 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papaer airplane do? 
Date: Fri, 23 May 97 16:00:12 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 5/23/97 2:35 PM, Patrick Barden (absga@elbertonga.com) Said: 
 
>There is something I have never been able to determine satisfactorily, so I 
>am seeking opinions from the group.  How do you figure out how much damage a 
>thrown object will do when it hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
>damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
>standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
>enough brick.  One option I had tried was to reverse the damage rules for 
>hitting a solid object (ie 1d6 per body and DEF of the object thrown).  Also 
>converting this damage to a killing equivalent if the object thrown was 
>sharp or similarly appropriate). 
 
We have always ruled that a thrown object does 1d6 per 5 extra STR of the  
thrower, up to a maximum of the BOD of the object. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papaer airplane do? 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 23 May 1997 23:29:12 -0400 
Lines: 31 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "PB" == Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> writes: 
 
PB> There is something I have never been able to determine satisfactorily, 
PB> so I am seeking opinions from the group.  How do you figure out how 
PB> much damage a thrown object will do when it hits a person. 
 
If the character paid points for the object in question then the amount of 
damage it will do is based on what he paid for.  Otherwise the damage is 
either a) the character's Strength/5 or b) the character's Strength beyond 
what he needs to lift the object/5.  Use some common sense when figuring 
damage.  The maximum Body damage an object can do is equal to its DEF+Body. 
So, a paper airplane with 0 DEF, 1 BODY can do a maximum of 1 Body; I would 
call it a 1/2d6 normal attack. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover 
                                    \ head. 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 23 May 1997 23:39:37 -0400 
Lines: 31 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "j" == jonesmj <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> writes: 
 
j> WRONG AGAIN! the kido styles 
 
Pardon me, but there are no "kido" styles.  There are "do" styles and 
"jutsu" styles, corresponding to "way" and "art".  Aikijutsu is "the art of 
Aiki" and Aikido is "the way of Aiki".  The forms are similar, but "do" 
styles encompass a philosophy: they are a way of life, whereas "jutsu" 
forms tend to concentrate on the martial (combat) aspects: they are an art 
of combat. 
 
And if you are going to flame people I would suggest doing so in private 
mail. 
 
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=zDSl 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
                                    \  
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:09:24 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
well, how about this: it IS stupid to make such a comparison between 
two such different arts, so all i was being is accurate. I don't give 
a cold rock in orbit if someone calls me stupid, so there really isn't 
much grounds for accusing me of flaming, is there? 
 
 
 
 
At 11:05 PM 5/22/97 -0500, you wrote: 
>Mr Jones, 
> 
>If you feel you just HAVE to flame somebody, do it in private email.  
>The rest of us don't need to see your immature rantings. 
> 
>And yes, I know I'm being a hypocrite sending this to the list, but 
>every time I've sent private email to Mr Jones in the past, he has 
>echoed it back to the list ANYWAY, so I figured I would save him the 
>step. 
> 
>Todd 
> 
> 
>jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>  
>> you do the same!!! they share a common ancestry, nothing more. it is 
>> just plain stupid to think they are in any way related. 
>>  
>> At 03:04 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>> >I beg to differ.  Read the alt.rec.martial-arts FAQ.  Read the history of 
>> >Judo and Jujitsu. 
>> > 
>> >At 02:36 PM 5/20/9 
> 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:12:15 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
>have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
>would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an invasion. 
> 
>Here are some of my questions: 
> 
>What can I do to keep things moving? 
>What can I do to keep it fun and not bogged down? 
just chase the characters areund!!  
 
 
>What are some short cuts you have learned? 
>What are some mistakes that I can avoid? 
 
DON'T go overboard with lots of different critters. i finnd a 
single race much better, despite how cool ds's invasionstoryline was. 
 
 
> 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:21:32 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 03:36 PM 5/23/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>At 01:28 PM 5/23/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>WRONG AGAIN! the kido styles originated in korea, and were ripped off from 
>the japanese. 
>>it is not the 'sport form'- there is hardly any relationship at all. 
> 
>And your sources are what? 
> 
how valid are yours??? can either of us prove anything at all?? HEY!!! how 
about we just drop it, like 90% of the list want us to do? 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:21:33 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
A 
>j> WRONG AGAIN! the kido styles 
> 
>Pardon me, but there are no "kido" styles.  There are "do" styles and 
>"jutsu" styles, corresponding to "way" and "art".  Aikijutsu is "the art of 
>Aiki" and Aikido is "the way of Aiki".  The forms are similar, but "do" 
>styles encompass a philosophy: they are a way of life, whereas "jutsu" 
>forms tend to concentrate on the martial (combat) aspects: they are an art 
>of combat. 
> 
 
hapKIDO!! aiKIDO!!  And your literal interpretations were valid about 
100 years ago, and no longer. 
 
 
 
>And if you are going to flame people I would suggest doing so in private 
>mail. 
> 
 
 
i suggest you grow a thicker skin. i get pretty insulted by a lot of the things 
said on here, but i usually have the balls to grin and bear it. you do the same, 
and maybe we'll even get some stuff done, yes? 
 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest.net 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 03:34:31 -0400 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
Subject: Re: Real Martial Arts 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I've been avoiding posting more on this thread since it departed so much 
from what is relevent to champions but thought I should respond to at least 
a couple of things.  There are no Kido styles.  There are, however, do 
styles.  Kendo.  Judo.  Aikido.  Hapkido.  Yes, Aikido and Hapkido have kido 
in them.  Why? 
 
In Japanese Aikido is written with three characters. Ai-ki-do.  Do meaning 
'The way'  Ki meaning The spirit.  Ai meaning Harmony.  Thus it can be 
translated 'The way of harmony with the spirit.' 
 
Hapkido is a korean art and to be honest my knowledge of Korean is almost 
non existent.  However, according to an interview with Master Suh Bok Sup, 
one of the first students of the founder of Hapkido, Choi Yong Suhl, Hap Ki 
means total art.  Later on it sounds like another translation could be 
coordinated energy.  It was not until 1958 that the 'Do' was added to the 
name.   
 
Hope this helps with any misunderstandings. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest.net 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 03:34:31 -0400 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
Subject: Re: Real Martial Arts 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I've been avoiding posting more on this thread since it departed so much 
from what is relevent to champions but thought I should respond to at least 
a couple of things.  There are no Kido styles.  There are, however, do 
styles.  Kendo.  Judo.  Aikido.  Hapkido.  Yes, Aikido and Hapkido have kido 
in them.  Why? 
 
In Japanese Aikido is written with three characters. Ai-ki-do.  Do meaning 
'The way'  Ki meaning The spirit.  Ai meaning Harmony.  Thus it can be 
translated 'The way of harmony with the spirit.' 
 
Hapkido is a korean art and to be honest my knowledge of Korean is almost 
non existent.  However, according to an interview with Master Suh Bok Sup, 
one of the first students of the founder of Hapkido, Choi Yong Suhl, Hap Ki 
means total art.  Later on it sounds like another translation could be 
coordinated energy.  It was not until 1958 that the 'Do' was added to the 
name.   
 
Hope this helps with any misunderstandings. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk> 
Date: Sat, 24 May 97 12:23:40 GMT 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
>have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
>would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
invasion. 
> 
>Here are some of my questions: 
> 
>What can I do to keep things moving? 
 
Have you read the Harry Turtledove alien invasion books?? 
 
In the balance/Tilting the balance/ and something else about balance :-) 
 
There should be enough material for stuff to use in various 
scenarios to base a campaign around. 
 
Stephen 
 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:43:38 -0600 
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
S McGinness wrote: 
>  
> At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
> >I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
> >have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
> >would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
> invasion. 
> > 
 
>  
> Have you read the Harry Turtledove alien invasion books?? 
>  
> In the balance/Tilting the balance/ and something else about balance :-) 
>  
Worldwar: In the balance, Tilting the balance, upsetting the balance, 
Finding the balance. 
 
Highly recomemnded reading.  
Also: 
 Footfall by Niven & Pournell 
 
The Invasion: Target Earth Module has some basic advice on running 
invasions. I found it usefull as a guide. 
 
Basic problems in running invasion stories... Why can this race defeat 
Humanity, and if it is "nearly unbeatable", how is it that the humans 
can actually win, all the while keeping a willing suspension of 
disbelief. That was the problem a lot of people had with "Independance 
Day".  
 
> There should be enough material for stuff to use in various 
> scenarios to base a campaign around. 
>  
> Stephen 
 
--  
-Mhoram 
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 
 two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright 
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain: 
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu> 
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu> 
Organization: ORGANIZATION?!? 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:33 -0500 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
CC: hero-l@omg.org 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> well, how about this: it IS stupid to make such a comparison between two 
> such different arts, so all i was being is accurate. 
 
Despite the accuracy of your comments (or lack thereof--I have no  
knowledge with which to confirm or dispute them), your lack of tact, and  
apparent immaturity, were inexcusable. 
 
> I don't give a cold 
> rock in orbit if someone calls me stupid, so there really isn't much 
> grounds for accusing me of flaming, is there? 
 
"I don't care if someone flames me, so therefore nobody can accuse me of  
flaming them"?  Perhaps you should re-evaluate the statement you just  
made. 
 
And while you're at it... 
 
*plonk*--this time, for good. 
 
HAND. 
 
--M 
 
-- 
korthmat@cps.msu.edu   http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat 
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. *** 
"Were you always this stupid--or did you take lessons?" 
"I took lessons!"     --_The Long Kiss Goodnight_ 
 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 14:26:57 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>  
> well, how about this: it IS stupid to make such a comparison between 
two such different arts, so all i was being is accurate. I don't give a 
cold rock in orbit if someone calls me stupid, so there really isn't much 
grounds for accusing me of flaming, is there? 
 
 
Last time I checked, the purpose of this list was to discuss 
Champions/Hero, not martial arts, and certainly not as a free forum for 
any person to regularly insult the rest of the list.  It doesnt matter 
'a cold rock in orbit' how YOU feel about being called stupid, it 
matters how the rest of the list feels about it. 
 
If I remember correctly, you stayed on this list by the skin of your 
teeth once before when you insisted on making an ass of yourself 
repeatedly.  The only thing that saved you was the requests of a few of 
the respected members of the list asking that we give you a second 
chance.  The rest of us did, in the hopes that you would grow up.  
Apparently you arent ready to do that. 
 
Todd 
 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 14:39:18 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>  
 
> surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
> on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
> powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
> guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
 
 
This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
 
Instead, make the aliens seem unbeatable, but leave a method (or more 
than one) where the PCs can discover a method to turn the tide of the 
battle, kind along the lines of how in Independance Day they discovered 
how to turn off the force fields of the alien ships (although I would go 
for something a little more believable) 
 
 
Let the PCs discover some alien technology that enhances their own 
powers - giving them additional firepower and defenses.  It doesnt have 
to be much - adding 2 to 4 dice to a standard attack makes it a really 
nasty attack.. add a 10/10 force field to their defenses and an alien 
gun that would have stunned them before is no more than a nuisance. Let 
the PCs feel like they defeated the aliens on their own by outsmarting 
them.  Of course, make the technology run off of an alien power source 
so you can get rid of it after this scenario...  
 
 
Todd 
 
From: jjerles@pacificnet.net 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jjerles@pacificnet.net> 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:33:26 +0000 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> Subject:       Charges 
> Date:          Sat, 24 May 97 23:20:13 -0500 
> From:          "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
> To:            champ-l@omg.org 
 
> OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
> me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
> more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
> attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
> of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
> limiting than not having any limit at all. 
>  
> Actually, allong those lines, it seems that an autofire charges 
> attack should max out its advantage at +3/4 and a non-autofire 
> at +1/4.  After all, shouldn't having a finite number of shots 
> always be more limiting than not having ANY limit. 
>  
> Just curious what all of you are thinking on this. 
>  
> PAX 
 
 
  Well, it seems to me that while you have a limited number of shots you also  
are getting those shots at no endurance.  The no endurance is a 1/2 mod. off  
the top and autofire makes it possible to fire off more shots than would  
otherwise be given to a hero of the same speed.   
 
  I think that the way charges are, are fine.  If anything, I think that the  
'clips' section of the rules is a little kind, but that is a loophole I can  
live with. 
 
John 


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Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 05:41 PM