Week Ending May 31, 1997

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:59:23 +1000 (EST) 
X-Sender: bryce144@fan.net.au 
From: Len Undy <bryce144@fan.net.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
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At 02:35 PM 23/05/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
>have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
>would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
invasion. 
> 
>Here are some of my questions: 
> 
>What can I do to keep things moving? 
>What can I do to keep it fun and not bogged down? 
>What are some short cuts you have learned? 
>What are some mistakes that I can avoid? 
> 
>Anything else you might think of would be appreciated. 
> 
>Oh' in referring to manuals take note that I do not have access to more than 
>a handful of the newest books.  (ie. Champions version 1-4, C:TNM, and 
>Allies and Enemies Assemble are about it.) 
> 
>Patrick B. 
 
 
        I like my invasions to be BIG.  You shouldn't have too many of these 
type of Invasions, they should be BIG world shaking events.  The Aliens, 
preferably of the same type, should hit the earth by surprise and hard. 
Unless your governments in your campaign have encountered aliens before, 
they really shouldn't be prepared.  Perhaps they bombard the major cities of 
the world first, or disrupt communication.  Then they send in their 
unstoppable airforce(think ID4, or even Robotech).  This is where the heroes 
come in.  Ussaully the heroes base is in a city, so this is where you wipe 
out their base(in one of those-it looks trashed, but can still be rebuilt 
within a few weeks)   
        I like putting the heroes on the run in an Invasion, its one of the 
few opportunities that you get to do so. 
 
        Keep things moving: 
        1:      Keep the heroes on the run.  The Aliens are soon going to 
learn of the threat superheroes pose.  Therefore their going to want to take 
them down.   
        2:      Add lots of twist. eg.  A second Alien race, worse then the 
first attacks both sides.  Heroes must choose between the evil they know and 
a possible ally.  Shapeshifter that inflitrate the Hero community.  The 
aliens originally came from Earth and therefore have some claim over it. 
 
        Keeping it fun and not bogged down: 
        1:  In the "On the run" Invasion, the aliens will at first seem very 
powerful.  To avoid the feeling of "we can't win", show that the aliens do 
have major weaknesses.  See below for suggestions. 
        2:  Have lots of variety in your senarios(sp?).  This is a good 
excuse to send your heroes into all sorts situations around the world, and 
beyond 
        3:  Remember other heroes and villians.  Have major villians side 
with the heroes, and even show that the villians are human after all, 
compared to the aliens.  But also have villians side with the aliens.  eg. 
that evil corporation will build weapons for the aliens in return for 
advanced tech. 
        4:  Have you heroes hate the aliens.  This is doen in several ways. 
Have a hero ally die in a important fight, sacrificing himself in some way. 
Thus the heroes will seek some sort of revenge.  Have the heroes discover a 
concentration camp, where the human prisoners are about to be processed in 
food(but give the heroes a chance to save the victims before its to late). 
Finally, have the aliens seem, well, ALIEN.   Have there motivations seem 
completly inhuman.  Look to insects like ants, bees, and wasp, even spiders 
for ideas on this. 
 
        Notes: 
 
        1:  You must always decide how the aliens will be defeated in the 
end, before you start the campaign.  Are your heroes going to beat them to a 
stand still, causing the aliens to either respect human kind, or just give 
up.  Or are the heroes going to find the Hive Queen, kill her, and destroy 
the mother ship, thus wiping out all the aliens in one fell swoop.  This is 
the most important  part of an invasion, as you can then plan the steps 
leading upto it. 
 
ALIEN ENEMIES(some sterotypes for heroes to battle) 
1:  Standard hovertanks, spaceship fighters, armoured infantry etc. 
2:  Giant robots(hey don't knock 'em until you try 'em) 
3:  Powerarmour troops( perhaps their the aliens commandoes) 
4:  STEAL from movies, go on try it.  The Predator is just a powerarmoured 
assassin sent to kill the heroes, the terminator is standard troops, etc. 
5:  Alien Superheroes, furthering the Aliens ambitions.  The aliens have 
their own superheroe teams, etc. 
6:  Shapeshifters, inflitrators 
7:  Genetic expimentation:  All those humans, how can they resist using them 
in their experiments, perhaps making a new team of villians 
7:  Local villians: evil corporations, just plain stupid villians 
 
ALIEN WEAKNESS: 
 
1:  They aliens last studied the humans several hundred years ago, and 
expect a very basic level of tech.  Boy were they surprised when when they 
see us now.  However, they are still more advanced then us, but not that 
much more. 
2:  Limited numbers.  You can only fit so many soldiers on board the ship 
and the world is a big place.  The Aliens are slowly overextending their 
lines.  Combined with 1, the aliens are in big trouble. 
3:  Code of Honour, A Rule Book of War.  The Aliens are predictable, because 
of a code of honour or a strict set of rules on of war is fought.  Humans 
however are renowned for constantly changing the rules without consulting 
the enemy.  The Aliens even expect us to have the same rules, and are most 
confused with gurrila warfare and terrorist attacks. 
4:  Superheroes?  Aliens have never encountered something as strange as 
superheroes.  Super soldiers with thousands of different powers.  How does 
one plan against that. 
5:  Tratior!!  Perhaps some of the invaders actually like human kind, and 
will surply info and tech to the humans.  However, their pacifist and will 
not actually fight for the humans.  Another slant is that the helpers are 
another alien race hoping to use the humans against the invaders. 
6:  Drugs.  Didn't relize that ginger was so addictive to the aliens did 
you?  Addicts are willing to do anything for a little sample of their 
favoirite drug.  Even give info, or smuggle you aboard the mothership. 
7:  Enemy alien races.  Earth just happens to be the key to an intersteller 
war.  Whoever takes it will rule the universe.  Two or more alien races are 
invading.  Fortunatly the aliens see each other as stronger threats then the 
humans.  Heroes can use each of the aliens against each other in an attemt 
to weaken each of them for a final blow.  But can they do it before the 
earth becomes a wasteland. 
8:  Only one Megadeath weapon?  We only need one.  If the heroes can destroy 
the ship carry the megadeath weapon, the aliens will severly be weakened. 
9:  Time Limit.  The alien invasion is to prepare the earth for a colony of 
aliens.  The invaders must take the planet before a certain time or else. 
If the heroes can delay or even defeat the invasion, the aliens may be 
forced to negoitiate a peace treaty or loose thousands of alien civilians. 
 
        Well that all(!) I can think of now.  I hope this helps. 
 
        BRYCE 
        GRANDMASTER OF THE CENTRUIN IX ASSUALT FLEET 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
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Date: 24 May 1997 22:56:49 -0400 
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>>>>> "j" == jonesmj <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> writes: 
 
j> hapKIDO!! aiKIDO!! 
 
Aikido is three words: ai: harmony, ki: spirit, do: way.  The entire 
meaning is, roughly, the way of harmony of the spirit.  Hapkido is also 
three words: hap: (roughly) coordinate, ki: energy, do: way.  The entire 
meaning roughly being, because my Korean is practically nonexistant, the 
way of coordinated energy.  The "do" part of Hapkido did not appear until 
the late 1950s -- less than the 100 years you claim makes "my" 
interpretation obsolete.  This was also about the time that Aikijutsu (the 
art of harmony with the spirit) mostly ceased being taught, replaced by 
Aikido (there are probably a handful of Aikijutsu schools around, but not 
many; an Aikijutsu practicioner is a rarity these days). 
 
Calling "do" styles "sport forms" is a misnomer of convenience. 
Competition between schools that teach a particular style is common.  To 
moderate these matches there are regulatory bodies that deliniate exactly 
what can and cannot be done during such matches, just as (I'm blanking on 
the name, the Earl of Queensbury?) did for Boxing, the manly art of 
fisticufs, over a century ago. 
 
One of the clearest examples of this is Kendo, which really is a sport form 
of Kenjutsu.  In the various schools of Kenjutsu, the Bushi's sword art, 
almost anything goes, as long as it leaves you standing and your opponent 
dead.  But in Kendo there are exactly 8 ways to hit your opponent, seven 
strikes to various parts of the upper body (head, torso, shoulders) and one 
thrust to the torso.  Anything else will cause you to be eliminated from 
the match.  Because Kendo rigorously enforces these in training they become 
reflexive.  This is a liability in a fight against anyone other than 
another Kendo practicioner because Kendo teaches to block only those 8 
strikes.  A Kendo master that practices no other art is practically 
defenseless against a 9 year old kid wearing heavy boots. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:06:46 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Re: Charges 
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>OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
>me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
>more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
>attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
>of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
>limiting than not having any limit at all. 
 
I have a house rule along those lines, it's a silly holdover from the old 
reduced END rules. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Subject: Charges 
Date: Sat, 24 May 97 23:20:13 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
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OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
limiting than not having any limit at all. 
 
Actually, allong those lines, it seems that an autofire charges 
attack should max out its advantage at +3/4 and a non-autofire 
at +1/4.  After all, shouldn't having a finite number of shots 
always be more limiting than not having ANY limit. 
 
Just curious what all of you are thinking on this. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 07:45:01 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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>> OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
>> me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
>> more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
>> attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
>> of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
>> limiting than not having any limit at all. 
>>  
>  Well, it seems to me that while you have a limited number of shots you  
>also are getting those shots at no endurance.  The no endurance is a 1/2  
>mod. off the top and autofire makes it possible to fire off more shots  
>than would otherwise be given to a hero of the same speed.   
 
That's actually my point.  The only advantage that charges give is No END  
on 
the shot.  So why should the charges "Advantage" cost more than the  
equivilent 
reduced END cost?  Even the Continuing Charges Rules seem awfully  
expensive. 
I can have 250 charges that last 1 hour each as a +2 1/4 Advantage, or 
Unlimited No END Continuous Uncontrolled Shots that never time out for  
a +2 Advantage. 
 
My thought is just that Charges as an Advantage shouldn't ever cost more  
than  
if you just built the power as a Reduced Endurance Construct, and IMHO  
should 
be a hair cheaper.  
 
>  I think that the way charges are, are fine.  If anything, I think that the  
>'clips' section of the rules is a little kind, but that is a loophole I can  
>live with. 
 
The clips rules are the only thing that has made Charges useful at all to  
me. 
At least with autofire, I can build a reasonably accurate automatic weapon 
that doesn't completely break Active Point limits just building a 2d6 KA,  
the 
standard for military grade gear in the Viper suppliment as well as  
CyberHero. 
I'm not sure why your considering them a loophole. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Active Costs 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 07:45:04 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to  
CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for  
technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing  
heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 12:15:34 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>The limitation is that the shots do not cost the character Endurance to 
>use.. while a character without charges can rest and recuperate thus 
>gaining endurance back.. the character with the charges can run out if 
>the story line does not allow him the chance to recharge. 
 
That's why I was asking about a +1/2 / +1 cap for regular/autofire  
attacks.  No END cost on a normal attack is a +1/2 Advantage and on  
an autofire attack is a +1 advantage.  Sence the only "Advantage" of 
charges is No END, it seems the advantage cost should max out at the 
same levels No END itself does. 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk> 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 17:29:09 GMT 
Subject: Re:  Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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"John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@net.infi.nr> 
>Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
>like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
>characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
>closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to 
>CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for 
>technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing 
>heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
>releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
>military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
>unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
 
My My John, we are full of questions this weekend aren't we? :-) 
 
I have broken away completely with limiting the active point cost 
of things. I don't think it is a good way to balance out the 
various powers you might come up with. I'm not trying to say that 
a point is not getting you a points value anywhere, though we all 
realise that things aren't (and can never truly be 100% balanced), 
but if you buy a 100 point power then it will give 100 point value, 
if you place limitations on it then it tends to give 100 point value 
_some_ of the time. Why should players be limited to either 60 
points all the time, or 60 points some of the time, and in some cases 
60 points none of the time?? If the utility of a power is very 
limited then I'll tend to allow higher point powers. If the power 
is limited in effectiveness then I'll always allow higher point 
powers. The active point might be a good initial point to start 
limitations but I tend to use it more as a guide than a rule. 
 
 
Stephen 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:37:38 -0500 (CDT) 
Posted-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:37:38 -0500 (CDT) 
X-Sender: rvb@visi.com 
From: Rob <rvb@visi.com> 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Part of the figuring of the value of limitations is in figuring the 
pragmatic value, not the hypothetical one. Up around 250 charges, on a 
single use attack, you're talking about over fifty turns of ordinary combat. 
I don't know anyone whose single adventures go through so much combat. This 
is ten or more average combats in my Champions experience. For a single 
attack used routinely, about sixteen to thirty uses for even the longest 
adventure would be about as much as pragmatically would be used. 
 
Turning to the case of autofire attacks, there's a whole other kettle of 
fish. Autofire attacks redistribute the odds on Stun Lotto effects of both 
normal and killing attacks, skewing in favour of Stunning. The difference is 
so dramatic in the case of killing attacks that my house rule doubles the 
cost of autofire charges on KA's. The mathematics of this is fairly 
involved, for a short reply, but it seemed to balance fairly well over a 
course of five years of weekly campaigns. 
 
As for inconsistencies in costs, sure, at the extreme limits of the rules, 
things often get a bit distorted. That's why GM's exercise discretion. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:45:53 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Rob wrote: 
>  
> This isn't by way of flame, and don't take it the wrong way, but when I 
> dabbled in such things, I met or studied under three people who met or 
> studied under the man called the father of modern Aikido. All of them eighth 
> Dan. None of them used 'kido' as a term in itself, although several times 
> their lessons addressed the subjects of 'do', 'ki' and 'ai', which I'm sure 
> you well know mean 'way', 'personal energy' and 'harmony' in Japanese. None 
> of them mentioned Korea, either, in connection with Aikido. 
>  
 
rule of thumb: i don't consider critical comments flames. don't think i'm going to be  
offended by dialogue. i tend to ignore such concepts, so i doubt i'd have any grounds  
for going all high-minded on you . . . 
 
 
 
> Perhaps I'm reading too much into what you're saying. Did you only intended 
> to cover Hapkido (which a second Dan instructor did mention had some 
> connection to Korea to me) in your statement? 
>  
 
it was a classification which made sense: both styles are simmilar, and deal with the  
concept of 'ki', and have common ancestry - it was merly a classification, one which i  
have seen used many times. 
 
 
> And, while I am getting old, I promise you this happened much, much less 
> than a hundred years ago. Judo only descended from Jiujitsu a little over a 
> hundred years ago, and the popular explosion in the various jutsu's and do's 
> began in this century.  It is more like the distinction of 'do' and 'jutsu' 
> was less important literally a hundred years ago. Given that - despite 
> claims of 'Te' adherents to the contrary -martial arts in the Orient are 
> less than eight hundred years old (much less than the four thousand year 
> Western traditions of wrestling and boxing, or the approximate twenty five 
> hundred year history of martial forms in India, where the Western traditions 
> evolved into the roots of the Oriental martial arts) it surprises me that so 
> many people get carried away to the extent that they do about all this. I 
> think it's just the fascination people have with the exotic that makes them 
> forget it's just another version of a sport. 
> 
 
 
 
i agree! however, the idea of  "do-vs-jutsu" comes from earlier times, in feudal japan.  
different schools "something-jutsu" competed in war and duels. and the "do" concept came  
in with judo and the like later on.  AND, there is a great deal of evidence that martial  
arst originted all over the place, from very old roots, and evolved together over time.  
i think it is silly to think "we(korean styles)" "them(japanese styles)"  or "us(chinese  
styles"  were the progenetor of martial arts. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:01:02 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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S McGinness wrote: 
>  
> At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
> >I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
> >have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
> >would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
> invasion. 
> > 
> >Here are some of my questions: 
> > 
> >What can I do to keep things moving? 
>  
> Have you read the Harry Turtledove alien invasion books?? 
>  
> In the balance/Tilting the balance/ and something else about balance :-) 
>  
> There should be enough material for stuff to use in various 
> scenarios to base a campaign around. 
> plus try to get hold of the old "INVASION: DCUNIVERSE" stories. they had some cool  
scenes of a united superheroic front, and a good set of cool potential scenes. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:10:39 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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Todd Hanson wrote: 
>  
> Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> > 
>  
> > surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
> > on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
> > powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
> > guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
>  
> This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
> leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
> life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
> out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
>  
 
but the cavalry has to come alon once or twice: remember, the idea of global cooperation  
figures very strongly here. what better way to show it than have the "soviet  
supernaughts" turn up and save the characters ass, and then have the characters do the  
same?? it is a war, afteral, there should be wins and losses, and lots o' dead npc  
supers  :->~ 
 
 
 
 
> Instead, make the aliens seem unbeatable, but leave a method (or more 
> than one) where the PCs can discover a method to turn the tide of the 
> battle, kind along the lines of how in Independance Day they discovered 
> how to turn off the force fields of the alien ships (although I would go 
> for something a little more believable) 
>  
 
*sigh* no i really regret deciding not to be so abrasive. This is a cliche (no flame  
intended, todd) which has been done several times in billions of situations, and is one  
of the few plots used in startrek (no flame intended, universal studios!). I would  
aavoid it at all costs myself, but probably a better idea is to use it a littly bit  
(maybe neutralise a particular race in a coalition, for instance) but keep it to a  
minimum. 
 
 
> Let the PCs discover some alien technology that enhances their own 
> powers - giving them additional firepower and defenses.  It doesnt have 
> to be much - adding 2 to 4 dice to a standard attack makes it a really 
> nasty attack.. add a 10/10 force field to their defenses and an alien 
> gun that would have stunned them before is no more than a nuisance. Let 
> the PCs feel like they defeated the aliens on their own by outsmarting 
> them.  Of course, make the technology run off of an alien power source 
> so you can get rid of it after this scenario... 
>  
> Todd 
 
 
they did this in dc, i think(no flame intended, DC comics) 
and it's a bit mean(no fl-oh, forget it) maybe they could steal a ship or two, 
and maybe you could tell them to save their points before the scenario, so one or two of  
them can have a radiation accident? 
 
From: David.Berge@october.com (David Berge) 
Date: 25 May 97 12:16:08 -0800 
Subject: How many d6 does a papae 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
Patrick Barden writes: 
 
h> How do you figure out how much damage a thrown object will do when it 
 > hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
 > damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
 > standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
 > enough brick. 
 
Terminal velocity intrudes. An object's terminal velocity depends on its 
density and shape. The paper airplane simply can't go fast enough to do the 
full STR damage of a normal person. (More precisely, the airplane dece- 
lerates immediately when it leaves the thrower's hand.) 
 
In game terms, I would set an upper limit on the thrown damage that any 
object can generate. Anyone can probably do full damage with dense metal 
objects. Bricks will hit a limit with objects of density less than, oh, 3, 
and everyone else will be limited with objects less dense than water (1.0). 
 
I don't want to assign exact numbers, though; it's really not an important 
issue unless the density is very low. 
 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:20:20 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
appreciated,thanks. 
 
	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Posted-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) 
X-Authentication-Warning: james.stud.ntnu.no: leirbakk owned process doing -bs 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) 
From: Jens-Arthur Leirbakk <leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 26 May 1997, Kim Foster wrote: 
 
> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
> appreciated,thanks. 
>  
> 	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
> 			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Well, I'd perhaps guess something along these lines: First, figure out the 
maximum amount of Body that limb can take, based on the Body multiple in 
that area. For instance, I believe that an arm is .5. Thus, if a character 
has 30 Body, then that character's "arm body" is 15. Then, let's say that 
this number represents the number of months it takes for a character's 
limb to regrow (unless you want real 4-color, then you say weeks or days 
or whatever). Divide that on the Body/turn of the Regeneration power to 
find the total time needed to regrow that limb. Example: The character has 
a 4 Body Regeneration, and lost that arm. 15/4 is somewhat under 4 months, 
so it'll take 3 months and 3 weeks to completely regrow that arm. It is 
probable that the character will be able to actually use the arm in but a 
fraction of that time, but it will not be back to normal strength until 3 
months and 3 weeks have passed. If that seems long to you, then use weeks 
as your base time unit, or what have you. 
 
                 =============================================== 
                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
                 =       e-mail: leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no         = 
                 = http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/index.html = 
                 =    Smash forehead on keyboard to continue   = 
                 =============================================== 
 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Date: Mon, 26 May 97 08:46:17 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>>On Mon, 26 May 1997, Kim Foster wrote: 
> 
>> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
>> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
>> appreciated,thanks. 
 
>On Mon, 26 May 1997, Jens-Arthur Leirbakk wrote: 
> 
>Well, I'd perhaps guess something along these lines: First, figure out the 
>maximum amount of Body that limb can take, based on the Body multiple in 
>that area. For instance, I believe that an arm is .5. Thus, if a character 
>has 30 Body, then that character's "arm body" is 15. Then, let's say that 
>this number represents the number of months it takes for a character's 
>limb to regrow (unless you want real 4-color, then you say weeks or days 
>or whatever). Divide that on the Body/turn of the Regeneration power to 
>find the total time needed to regrow that limb. Example: The character has 
>a 4 Body Regeneration, and lost that arm. 15/4 is somewhat under 4 months, 
>so it'll take 3 months and 3 weeks to completely regrow that arm. It is 
>probable that the character will be able to actually use the arm in but a 
>fraction of that time, but it will not be back to normal strength until 3 
>months and 3 weeks have passed. If that seems long to you, then use weeks 
>as your base time unit, or what have you. 
 
Another approach would be to simply slide the regeneration down to Body  
per  
day.  In the example above, that would allow the arm to grow back in a  
litle  
over four days.  For higher regens if would be faster and for (in my  
experience  
more common) slower regens it would take longer.  In any case, a  
regenerating  
character has their arm back in 16 days.  This seems about right for four  
color. 
About the highest regen I've ever seen actually used was 5/TURN, which  
would 
still require 3 days to recover (and considering the same character can  
recover 
from near fatal wounds, say -29 BODY, in just over 2 minutes) this still  
feels 
about right for a four color.  In Dark Champions, I'd probably say  
Jens-Arthur's 
approach works better.  Reguardless, depending on the special effect, it  
might 
be reasonable to allow for "reapplying the severed limb" assuming it  
wasn't  
destroyed, only lopped off, and allow normal regeneration to work. 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:50:59 -0500 (CDT) 
Posted-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:50:59 -0500 (CDT) 
X-Sender: rvb@visi.com 
From: Rob <rvb@visi.com> 
Subject: Re: Regeneration 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
While I can appreciate the dramatic effect of slow regeneration of limbs, my 
own take on the issue is that the limb is restored as soon as all BODY taken 
in the injury that severed it is restored, unless the special effects or 
circumstances interfere. 
 
This is more satisfying to me that alternatives based on 'proportion of 
BODY'. After all, why should a character who loses an arm, having paid 
nothing for BODY, get it back in a third the time that an otherwise 
identical character, paying 40 points more for BODY, does? (To cite the 
example of the 30 BODY one-armed regenerator.) 
 
I suggest, if you need slower regeneration, just attribute it to 
circumstances, and set an arbitrary duration based on measures the character 
takes. Rest in bed attended by excellent caregivers being faster, trekking 
through disease-infested swamps slower. 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:33:59 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Hughes Academy Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, the game is full, thanks for everyone's submissions and suggestions. 
I have the following information from each player, for those of you without 
a full character and a background please get those to me soon, I would like 
to get started by next Monday (June 1). 
 
Anthony MacElroy --- character 
John Jerles --- character and background 
Rafael Sant'Anna --- character and background 
Razor Sharp --- character outline 
Captain Spith --- character and background 
jnealis (sorry, I neglected to write your name down) --- letter of intent 
Will Austin --- character and background 
Alex Rojas --- character 
Bryce --- character and background 
Carolyn Vaughan --- character and background 
flacksd@evron.com (sorry, I neglected to write your name down) --- character 
MartinTucker --- Letter of Intent 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:31:56 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net 
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins) 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
>why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
is stupid . .  
>. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
 
Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
"All right, all right! I'll sit on your crummy lap! Anything!! Just stop 
disintigrating me!!" 
-Gold Digger 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
John D. Prins 
jprins@interhop.net 
 
 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 02:57:41 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
Okay, 
 
A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
 
I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
it what are your thoughts? 
 
Jay A 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:55:03 -0600 
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> Okay, 
>  
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
>  
> Jay A 
 
I personally thing it would shift the balance of power off. Bricks (for 
instance) usually have low speeds and high recoveries. Without a post 
12, they wouldn't be able to absorb damage anywhere near as well. A 
speedster or High speed MA could afford to blow a phase to recover, but 
the low speed bricks couldn't.  
 
End use could also get to be a problem. 
 
This kind of rule could work well for a dark Champs, but I don't think 
it would fly well in a Four color.  
 
All the previous is IMHO, of course. 
 
 
A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player that 
came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found a 
differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever way; 
to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
Does any of the list at large do this?  
 
We don't have difficuties here because of the differance (we are adults 
after all) but are curious as to how others do it. 
 
--  
-Mhoram 
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 
 two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright 
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain: 
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 04:16:22 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Wayne J Shaw <shaw@IDT.NET> 
X-Sender: shaw@u3.farm.idt.net 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
 
 
On Tue, 27 May 1997 HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
 
> Okay, 
>  
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
 
Well, it'll certainly do that.  But it also overly rewards a high 
movement, high speed person, who can afford to duck around a corner and 
recover, while his lesser bretheren can't.  And it makes it impossible to 
fly long distances unless your flight is at 0 END. 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 04:44:47 -0500 (EST) 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7 
Reply-To: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past 
me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
 
I'm sure it would speed up combat, but at least with the groups I'm in it 
would change the feel of the game.  Like Hobbes 'State of Nature' combats 
woudl become nasty, brutish and short.  0 End powers and aids will be 
more common. 
 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
 
One thing the group I'm with does that helps.  WE start combat at the top 
of a turn, not on 12.  Starting on 12 gives everyone a chance to push an 
attack, then recover from their damage and end.  It's almost a wasted 
round.  By starting either on the first phase someone goes on (me)  
 or having a 'start of combat' phase then starting with the first phase, 
combat seems to go a little quicker.  Just my thoughts. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:15:54 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: In case anyone's interested..... 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
Hi, 
Look, I know that this is the hero mailer, but I'd thought I'd offer out an 
invitation anyway.  If anyone wishes to join an AD&D PBEM set in my own 
version of the Forgotten Realms please e-mail direct rather than to the list 
thankyou. 
lurkers are more than welcome. 
Thanx 
Chuff78002. 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:15:55 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Uthden Troll...watch this space ! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
Sorry about the delays folks, but things have gotten hectic over here and The 
Uthden Troll mtg/fh conversion has been put on the back burner for a while, 
however i'm almost ready to compile the data and it should be posted real 
soon ! 
 
WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!! 
 
Chuff78002. 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 05:45:55 -0500 
From: Jon Knutson <waffyjon@execpc.com> 
Reply-To: waffyjon@execpc.com 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
Curtis Gibson wrote: 
>  
 
> A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player that 
> came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found a 
> differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever way; 
> to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
> his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
> goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
> Does any of the list at large do this? 
>  
> We don't have difficuties here because of the differance (we are adults 
> after all) but are curious as to how others do it. 
>  
In my old gaming group in Washington, we'd make it an option; anyone 
stunned on Phase 12 could either use their post-12 to recover STUN and 
END, or to recover from being stunned.  If they used it to recover 
stun/end, they'd still need to use their next phase to recover from 
being stunned.  It worked rather well for us. 
 
Jon 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:30:40 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> wrote, 
>to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
>his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
>goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
>Does any of the list at large do this? 
 
 Yeah, that's how my friends and I do it. It doesn't seem to throw anything 
out of balance. 
 
 We also play that if you get stunned before your DEX count, you recover 
from being stunned that phase but lose your action. I don't know if that's 
standard or not. 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:57:52 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:42 PM 5/27/97 -0700, michael wrote: 
>John P. Weatherman wrote: 
>>  
>> Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
>> like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
>> characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
>> closer to 100 Active Points? BLAH BLAH BLAH 
>> PAX 
> 
>why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
is stupid . .  
>. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
> 
 
that would be 3.  :P 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:17:29 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 04:44 AM 5/27/97 -0500, Tokyo Mark wrote: 
>One thing the group I'm with does that helps.  WE start combat at the top 
>of a turn, not on 12.  Starting on 12 gives everyone a chance to push an 
>attack, then recover from their damage and end.  It's almost a wasted 
>round.  By starting either on the first phase someone goes on (me)  
> or having a 'start of combat' phase then starting with the first phase, 
>combat seems to go a little quicker.  Just my thoughts. 
> 
>TokyoMark 
 
The group I play with start combat on 12, but we never let anyone push an 
attack at this time.  I really hate the pushing rules, they are too often 
abused.  We had one player that would try to push everytime he attacked, 
because he figured he could mathematically risk the END.  This made me 
institute a rule that I, as GM, have total control of when the players can 
push.  I can understand if a character wants to boost a power with xps and 
pushes the attack everytime for a while (while he is building up the xps to 
increase the points in the power).  The players have since learned that 
pushing is to be used only in extreme cases, not on every phase. 
 
 
 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:40:07 -0400 (EDT) 
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu> 
Reply-To: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu> 
Subject: subscription 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
		Sorry to take up bandwidth like this, but I sent in my 
re-subscription request over a week ago (to hero-request@omg.org) and 
haven't recieved any mail.  Does it usually take this long, or do I have 
the wrong address?   
 
Thanks for any help you can provide, 
 
	          William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu 
	          http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html 
	   "I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive." 
		    -The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster 
 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:42:29 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
John P. Weatherman wrote: 
>  
> Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
> like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
> characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
> closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to 
> CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for 
> technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing 
> heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
> releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
> military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
> unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
>  
> PAX 
 
why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint is stupid . .  
. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
 
 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________________ 
> | Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             | 
>  
> | email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
> | fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
> |_____________________________|____________________________________| 
> | He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
> | life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
> | the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
> | bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
> | He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
> |                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
> |__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:45:13 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
I do organ damage as a plot concept, and use a ten point 'bonus' body cost for a normal 
organ/limb/bit. Also you could try a bonus cost as a function of total body. 
 
 
 
Kim Foster wrote: 
>  
> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
> appreciated,thanks. 
>  
>         Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
>                         Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu" 
 
From: dobrien@e-mail.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:10:58 EDT 
X-Sender-Info: Dennis L. O'Brien                               Class: Internal 
               Consulting Systems Engineer 
               VM Systems Software 15863            (510) 675-5594 
Subject: Pacificon moved? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The Dunfey Hotel told me today that they have been sold, and will be             
closed for renovations from 11 June to "sometime in November".  Pacificon        
will not be held at the Dunfey.                                                  
 
Has anyone heard anything on where Pacificon will be held, or if it will         
be held?                                                                         
 
                                             Dennis                              
 
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the              
support of Paul.  -- George Bernard Shaw                                         
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:46 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:39 PM 5/24/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote: 
>> surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
>> on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
>> powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
>> guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
> 
> 
>This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
>leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
>life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
>out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
 
   That's a little different than what I was talking about.  The mechanics 
of what I was saying would be the same, except that afterward the big guns 
tell the PCs, "Boy, it's a good thing you guys were here to slow these guys 
down, or the whole world would've been toast!"  Admittedly, that's not as 
satisfying as stopping the Evil One on your own, but it still can give a 
sense of having made a vital contribution. 
 
>Instead, make the aliens seem unbeatable, but leave a method (or more 
>than one) where the PCs can discover a method to turn the tide of the 
>battle, kind along the lines of how in Independance Day they discovered 
>how to turn off the force fields of the alien ships (although I would go 
>for something a little more believable) 
> 
>Let the PCs discover some alien technology that enhances their own 
>powers - giving them additional firepower and defenses.  It doesnt have 
>to be much - adding 2 to 4 dice to a standard attack makes it a really 
>nasty attack.. add a 10/10 force field to their defenses and an alien 
>gun that would have stunned them before is no more than a nuisance. Let 
>the PCs feel like they defeated the aliens on their own by outsmarting 
>them.  Of course, make the technology run off of an alien power source 
>so you can get rid of it after this scenario...  
 
   This is good advice for overall plotting.  (Very good, in fact.)  I was 
addressing what can be done when an individual encounter bogs down. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 03:21 PM 5/24/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>Pardon me, but there are no "kido" styles.  There are "do" styles and 
>>"jutsu" styles, corresponding to "way" and "art".  Aikijutsu is "the art of 
>>Aiki" and Aikido is "the way of Aiki".  The forms are similar, but "do" 
>>styles encompass a philosophy: they are a way of life, whereas "jutsu" 
>>forms tend to concentrate on the martial (combat) aspects: they are an art 
>>of combat. 
> 
>hapKIDO!! aiKIDO!!  And your literal interpretations were valid about 100 
years ago, and no longer. 
 
   Try hapkiDO and aikiDO (as per a very clear interpretation of the Korean 
language originals that Rat gave you). 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:20 AM 5/26/97 -0400, Kim Foster wrote: 
>Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
>limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
>appreciated,thanks. 
 
   I don't think that Regeneration (or any other "enhancement Power") is 
able to regrow limbs, at least in the official rules. 
   In my own games, I allow "Can Regrow Limbs" as a +1/2 Advantage to 
[healing] Aid, Regeneration, and Transfer, and the REC Characteristic.  In 
this case, the amount of BODY needed to regrow a limb is equal to the amount 
that it took to cut it off in the first place. 
   And for the curious:  yes, if a character with Transfer that Can Regrow 
Limbs uses that Power on someone else, the other person does lose the limb, 
but only for the duration that the Transfer lasts (and none of the 
applications of this Advantage will work if the person with the Power never 
had the limb in question to begin with). 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:03:34 -0700 
From: "HAPPYELF!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
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John and Ron Prins wrote: 
>  
> >why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
> is stupid . . 
> >. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
>  
> Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
> limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
> powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
> mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
> take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
> however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
>  
 
 
i agree! however, i would still like to abolish the whole idea, or put it all in  
gm-campagn control . . . 
 
From: DocTough@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:23:30 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Doc sez... 
 
     Speeds up combat, eh?... Not surprised, characters must be getting 
exhausted  and knocked out sooner.  Does your friend mention if there's been 
an increase in the  number of characters that have tried to purchase reduced 
END on their STR and other powers? 
 
Doc  Tough 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:43:48 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
In a message dated 97-05-27 17:46:33 EDT, bob.greenwade@klock.com (Bob 
Greenwade) writes: 
 
> >This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
>  >leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
>  >life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
>  >out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
>   
>     That's a little different than what I was talking about.  The mechanics 
>  of what I was saying would be the same, except that afterward the big guns 
>  tell the PCs, "Boy, it's a good thing you guys were here to slow these 
guys 
>  down, or the whole world would've been toast!"  Admittedly, that's not as 
>  satisfying as stopping the Evil One on your own, but it still can give a 
>  sense of having made a vital contribution. 
 
I would think that the "Queen Bee" motif would be the best for player 
satisfaction.  Not to mention that fact that it's easier to fight smaller 
combats.  Let the NPCs defend the white house (perhaps with a little help 
from our heros).  It's the PCs job to infiltrate, get in there and destroy 
the queen mother, or the main computer, or whatever you can think of.  Or 
maybe even just talk 'em out of attacking...thats always fun.  Or maybe 
just...... 
 
You get my point.  As many Earthlings as you want can stave off individual 
attacks.  Even win battles against incredible odds.  But the PCs should be 
the ones to eventually save the world.  Unless you don't want the world 
saved, that could be fun too. 
 
Jay A 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <aeverett@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> 
From: "Al Everett" <aeverett@worldnet.att.net> 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:10:53 -0500 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Reply-to: aeverett@worldnet.att.net 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 27 May 97 at 7:55, Curtis Gibson wrote: 
> A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player 
> that came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found 
> a differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever 
> way; to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries 
> only. The way his group had always run it, that if you get stunned 
> in 12, your post 12 goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus 
> doesn't help end/stun. Does any of the list at large do this?  
 
My group has traditionally done it this way, more from ignorance than  
anything else. To our way of thinking, whether you recover from being  
stunned and then recover END/STUN or recover END/STUN then recover  
from being stunned, the end result is the same. 
Never seemed to unbalance anything. 
 
 
-- 
Al Everett                |  "Work is the curse of the drinking 
aeverett@worldnet.att.net |    classes"  - Rev William A Spooner 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:49:53 -0500 (EST) 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papae 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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> Terminal velocity intrudes. An object's terminal velocity depends on its 
> density and shape. The paper airplane simply can't go fast enough to do the 
> full STR damage of a normal person. (More precisely, the airplane dece- 
> lerates immediately when it leaves the thrower's hand.) 
>  
> In game terms, I would set an upper limit on the thrown damage that any 
> object can generate. Anyone can probably do full damage with dense metal 
> objects. Bricks will hit a limit with objects of density less than, oh, 3, 
> and everyone else will be limited with objects less dense than water (1.0). 
>  
> I don't want to assign exact numbers, though; it's really not an important 
> issue unless the density is very low. 
 
I believe there is a section in the book where it states that the damage 
of an object can't be more then def+body of the object.  It's been a long 
time since I bothered to look this up so it might simply apply to a past 
edition, but it seems a reasonable way to handle it. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:58:08 -0700 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Reply-To: tstatler@igateway.net 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 1 
 
Charles T. Badger wrote: 
>  
> At 11:50 05/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
> >Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> > 
> >1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> >an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> >cone.  
>  
> since the radius advantage is +1 advantage and gives the same distance as a 
> explosion with the explosion giving less damage to the outer area and also 
> being a +1/2 advantage you could use those two facts to build the other area 
> effect cone and line and use the same distance they would and divide the 
> decrease over even  increments. 
 
A good use of the AE:Explosive Cone (+1/2) advantage is in modelling a 
shotgun blast.  
 
Tim Statler 
 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:50:13 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
 
1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
effect advantage? 
 
2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
TIA, TTFN 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
X-Sender: badger@badgerden.com 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:41:58 -0400 
From: badger@badgerden.com (Charles T. Badger) 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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At 11:50 05/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
 
since the radius advantage is +1 advantage and gives the same distance as a 
explosion with the explosion giving less damage to the outer area and also 
being a +1/2 advantage you could use those two facts to build the other area 
effect cone and line and use the same distance they would and divide the 
decrease over even  increments. I don't have my book with  me currently but 
the distance is more or less based on dc in the base power.  
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
I saw one where the aid with feedback is a -1 limitation that does the same 
amount of body to the user as he/she heals. Transfer would be similar to but 
instead of my transfer transfering points from you to me it would be me to 
you. that would be worth at least -1/2 limitation.  
----- 
Charles T. Badger 
President Badger Internet Services, Inc. 
http://www.badgerden.com 
vrml page 
http://vrml.badgerden.com 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:43:29 -0700 
From: Eric Langendorff <ericl@swiftmedia.com> 
Reply-To: ericl@swiftmedia.com 
Organization: AGT 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
Patrick Barden wrote: 
>  
> Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
>  
> 1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
> effect advantage? 
 
I'd say 1/4 to 1/2 less advantage: Explosive Degrade. 
 
> 2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
> heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
> STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
> worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
Transfer with a -0 SFX limitation: Only works in reverse. 
 
-Eric 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:07:14 -0700 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
Patrick Barden wrote: 
>  
> Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
>  
> 1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
> effect advantage? 
 
Work it like the area effect advantages.  The cone would act just like 
the radius effect in that -1d6 per 1".  The line I might automatically 
allow -1d6 per 2" since it's a lot easier to dive out of. 
I think the cone advantage was either Champs II or Champs 3. 
 
>  
> 2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
> heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
> STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
> worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
Side effect that always goes off. Without my books I couldn't say the 
the costs. probably -1. -2 if he doesn't have ready access to personal 
healing. 
 
-Mark 
 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Date: Wed, 28 May 97 13:08:33 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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On 5/28/97 11:50 AM, Patrick Barden (absga@elbertonga.com) Said: 
 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
> 
I would probably do this as : 
  Energy Blast, AE:(Line or Cone), Reduced by Range 
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
I think this is spelled out in the HSR under Aid.... 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:43:30 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Tue, 27 May 1997, HAPPYELF!!!! wrote: 
 
> > Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
> > limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
> > powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
> > mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
> > take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
> > however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
>  
> i agree! however, i would still like to abolish the whole idea, or put it 
> all in gm-campagn control . . . 
 
How do you mean? It's already entirely a GM campaign-control issue. 
 
 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:50 AM 5/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
 
   Personally, for the cone effect, I would allow a "cone explosion," which 
only operates in a 60-degree cone but which loses damage at -1 DC/2", for 
the same +1/2 Advantage one already gets for Explosion.  Alternately, you 
could just use a regular Explosion, with a -1 Limitation (on the Advantage 
only) for a cone shape. 
   As for the line, I'd just use Area Effect: Line with a -1 Limitation (on 
the Advantage only) for the degradation. 
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
   Rather than do it this way ("Costs STUN as well as END"), give it a -1 
"Side Effects" Limitation (-1/2 if you use the 10 points/1d6 variant on 
Aid).  This ends up doing the same level of damage to the user as he heals. 
You can just rule by GM fiat that the damage the NPC takes is always 
identical to the amount he heals. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:51:14 -0500 
Subject: Determining Limitations 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
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Hello All, 
 
Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the 
subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make it 
totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial). 
 
Rob 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:08:17 -0500 
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> 
Subject: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take 
a minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
_every_ time the character activates the power. 
 
So, for example, the "Empathic Healing" mentioned earlier could simply 
be Aid/Healing with Side Effects: Damage (not Drain) equal to the Aid, 
for a limitation bonus of -1.  Since generic Damage (EB, whatever) is 
5 pts/d6, just like Aid, the total Active Points of Side Effect is 
exactly equal to the total Active Points of the Aid.  Requiring that 
the character take 12d6 damage for 3d6 of Aid would just be lame. 
 
  Donald 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:45:02 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 2 
 
 
>I would think that the "Queen Bee" motif would be the best for player 
>satisfaction.  Not to mention that fact that it's easier to fight smaller 
>combats.  Let the NPCs defend the white house (perhaps with a little help 
>from our heros).  It's the PCs job to infiltrate, get in there and destroy 
>the queen mother, or the main computer, or whatever you can think of.  Or 
>maybe even just talk 'em out of attacking...thats always fun.  Or maybe 
>just...... 
> 
>You get my point.  As many Earthlings as you want can stave off individual 
>attacks.  Even win battles against incredible odds.  But the PCs should be 
>the ones to eventually save the world.  Unless you don't want the world 
>saved, that could be fun too. 
> 
>Jay A 
> 
> 
how about "the heros are one of many who save the world?" or 
 
"the heros' strategist works dilligently with Dr Destroyer to formulate a  
defense plan, and all the world pulls it off?" or 
 
"during peace talks the heros give the aliens east hoboken, not mentioning  
Mechanon just took the joint over"   or  
 
"the world is saved by another alien race, who then tries to plunge the  
world into debt-slavery?"  or 
 
"the aliens are really running like crazy from something else, and move on as soon  
as the earth orbits out of their jetstream" or 
 
"the heros side with the aliens, and they turn out to be really wimpy" or 
 
"the battle rages on indefinitley, with the aliens holding everything outside 
of Mars, with teams of space-borne heros doing guerilla warfare within the asteroid belt" 
 
 
 
we can do WAY better than the old 'shoot de generator vent and it all go boom' 
, guys ..  . 
 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:53:05 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
here's a very small guide: 
 
-1/4 anything not involved directly in the campaign, like an effect that you make up  
and the gm says "yeah, shure, whatever . ." 
 
-1/2 Something really involved with the character: like kryptonite or silver, something the character will see a lot of, within the plot of the setting(it not just a random thingie) 
 
 
 
At 04:51 PM 5/28/97 -0500, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>Hello All, 
> 
>Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
>non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the 
>subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make it 
>totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial). 
> 
>Rob 
> 
> 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 29 May 1997 13:14:36 -0400 
Lines: 30 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "RJ" == R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> writes: 
 
RJ> Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
RJ> non-standard limitations? 
 
Just as a baseline I look at the probabilities for Activation Roll success. 
A limitation that is restrictive about half the time (11-) is worth a -1, 
working up to a -2 for a limitation that is restrictive almost always (8-) 
and down to -1/4 for a limitation that is infrequently restrictive (15-). 
I then make a comparison between the new limitation and any existing but 
similar limitations, and adjust the bonus to fit within the existing 
structure. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and 
                                    \ kept under refrigeration. 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 29 May 1997 13:20:27 -0400 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
 
DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
 
Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:22:48 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 97-05-29 05:37:25 EDT, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
(happyelf!) writes: 
 
> how about "the heros are one of many who save the world?" or 
>   
>  "the heros' strategist works dilligently with Dr Destroyer to formulate a  
>  defense plan, and all the world pulls it off?" or 
>   
>  "during peace talks the heros give the aliens east hoboken, not mentioning 
 
>  Mechanon just took the joint over"   or  
>   
>  "the world is saved by another alien race, who then tries to plunge the  
>  world into debt-slavery?"  or 
>   
>  "the aliens are really running like crazy from something else, and move on 
 
> as soon  
>  as the earth orbits out of their jetstream" or 
>   
>  "the heros side with the aliens, and they turn out to be really wimpy" or 
>   
>  "the battle rages on indefinitley, with the aliens holding everything  
> outside 
>  of Mars, with teams of space-borne heros doing guerilla warfare within the 
 
> asteroid belt" 
>   
>   
>   
>  we can do WAY better than the old 'shoot de generator vent and it all go  
> boom' 
>  , guys ..  . 
 
All these ideas are wonderfull.  And if your players wouldn't feel cheated 
not being the ones who dealt the final blow then you should just run with it. 
 I backed the "queen bee" story line on the assumption that the invaders were 
bad guys who needed to be stopped.  If if turns out they *are* wimps or 
fleeing a greater terror (I like the fleeing especially) then of course the 
scene is different.  But if they are fleeing to earth then we have the 
pursuers to worry about. 
 
My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
players.   
 
It is also very possible that you want the invasion to change the face of 
your campaing.  Maybe they actualy are friendly and misunderstood.  Or maybe 
they do take control of Hoboken. 
 
There are an infinate number of ways to play it.  But if you want the 
invasion to be just one story arc out of many without altering too much the 
face of your world, then the invaders must be dealt with somehow, and you 
must consider the personality of your players and their team.  Would they 
mind merely fighting a few battles or holding up the rear while some other 
NPC heros took the glory? 
 
And of course the "Queen Bee" could be anything.  I did not mean to imply 
that the good guys burst in with guns (and EBs) blazing.  What I meant was 
that there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
behind...in front of) that Event. 
 
I should have been more exacting...less flippant in my original post. 
 
Jay A 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:10:43 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wrack power 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
 
I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
Is there a more elegant way to do this ? 
 
(I originally came up with this idea when trying to make characters based 
on the different alien races in the game Cosmic Encounter.  Anybody else 
done this ? )  
 
Curt Hicks 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:22:30 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote, 
>>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
> 
>DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
>DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
>DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
>DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
> 
>Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
>disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
>So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
>there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
 
 One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:29:25 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Captain Trips 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(Brace yourselves) 
 
CAPTAIN TRIPS 
(Dr. Marcus Aurelius Meadows / Mark Meadows) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Welcome to one of the most powerful aces in the Wildcards universe! 
Captain Trips (named after the late Jerry Garcia), has the ability to 
transform himself into a number of different forms, or 'friends'.  Each of 
these alternate personalities are potent aces in their own right, although 
that doesn't mean they will agree with what ever it is the good Captain is 
involved in. 
 
Mark Meadows is tall and very thin, standing 6'2" and weighing about 160 
lbs.  He has shoulder length hair and a goatee.  He is exceedingly 
intelligent and is probably the most brilliant biochemist in the world. 
He is also quite the burned-out hippie.  As Captain Trips, Mark wears (in 
effect) a purple and white Uncle Sam suit, complete with top hat and a 
flower in the button hole.  Each of his 'friends' however, looks very 
different.  It should be noted that Mark has assumed two other forms aside 
from the five mentioned here.  One is the Radical, a youthful 
blonde-haired man clad only in jeans and wearing a peace medallion.  The 
other was called Monster, stood something like 60' tall and was strong 
enough to toss around T-72 tanks (and reminded me greatly of the 
Overfiend...). 
 
Note: Mark is built on a 25 point base, and is presumed to be a 'normal', 
hence the point total for his INT score. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		11		2 
Body		10		0 
Int		28		26 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		3		1 
ED		2		0 
Spd		2		1 
Rec		4		0 
End		22		0 
Stun		21		0 
Char Total			35 
Power Total			29 
Total Cost			64 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	KS: 'Counter Culture' Rock 15- 
2	KS: Recreational Drugs 11- 
3	PS: Biochemist (INT) 15- 
1	PS: Shop Owner 8- 
3	SC: Biochemsitry 16- 
1	SC: Biology 11- 
3	SC: Chemistry 16- 
2	SC: Mathmatics 15- 
2	SC: Organic Chemistry 15- 
2	SC: Pharacology 15- 
3	Streetwise 11- 
1	Trading 8- 
3	Scientist  
 
Disadvantages 
25	Base 
5	DF: 'Hippie' dress and mannerisms 
15	DNPC: Sprout (incomp) 8- 
10	Psych: Generally lacking in common sense 
10	Psych: Shy, tries to avoid overt publicity 
 
(Captain Trips created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:31:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(How's this for a headache... a Multiform form that has Multiform...) 
 
AQUARIUS 
(Cetus Dauphin - human from) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Aquarius is a huge man, standing 6' tall and weighing 280 lbs.  He has 
grayish skin and is bald.  His primary power is the ability to turn into a 
20' long dolphin.  Aquarius is a somewhat unpleasant fellow, who doesn't 
like *any*Jland dwellers and has a particular distaste for people from 
whaling nations.  He can be talking into giving aid, but it will be only 
grudgingly. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		20		10 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		18		16 
Body		14		8 
Int		18		8 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		15		5 
Com		8		-1 
PD		8		4 
ED		5		1 
Spd		3		11 
Rec		8		0 
End		36		0 
Stun		33		0 
Char Total			67 
Power Total			33 
Total Cost			100 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	Swimming: +3" (5" total) 
5	Discriminatory Taste 
 
4	KS: Scuba 14- 
5	Navigation 14- 
6	SC: Marine Biology 16- 
1	TF: Scuba 
3	Lang: English (native), French 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Dodge, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
25	Base 
25	Berserk:JOcean Mammals harmed (14-/8-) 
5	Dependence: Water, 2d6/5 Minutes 
5	DF:JGrey skinned man 
10	Phys: No sense of smell 
20	Psych: Protective of aquatic mammals 
10	Psych: Hates land dwellers (esp Japanese, Norwegians and Soviets) 
 
(Aquarius created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:32:38 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Aquarius - dolphin) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
AQUARIUS 
(Cetus Dauphin - dolphin from) 
 
Designers Notes: 
This is Aquarius dolphin form. The size of an Orca (Killer Whale), in this 
form Aquarius can out swim anything else in the ocean.  His skin is 
virtually immune to bullets and harpoons, and he can sink a ship with his 
rostrum.  On top of that, Aquarius can call upon and control other 
ocean-going mammals, especially other whales. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		40		0 
Dex		18		24 
Con		30		40 
Body		35		38 
Int		18		8 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		20		10 
Com		10		0 
PD		8		6 
ED		8		2 
Spd		4		12 
Rec		8		0 
End		60		0 
Stun		55		0 
Char Total			148 
Power Total			330 
Total Cost			478 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
40	Growth:J6 Levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+30 STR, +6 Body, +6 Stun, -6" KB, -3 DCV, +3 PER, 20' long, 
	12,800 lbs 
 
15	EC: Ocean Mammal (cetacean) control, Ocean Mammals only (-2) 
15	Mind Control:J12d6, 0 END 
15	Mind Scanning: 12d6, 0 END 
 
24	2d6 HKA, Reduced Penetration - bite, 3 END 
36	+8d6 HA, 0 END, Move Through attacks only (-1) 
60	Armor; +20 PD/ED 
10	+20 PD, only when performing a Move Through (-1) 
3	Life Support: High Pressure 
10	Life Support: No Need to Breath, 1 Recoverable Charge of 1 Hour 
-12"	-6" Running 
27	Swimming: +20" (22" total, 36" noncombat, 60 mph), 1/2 END, END 2 
15	Active Sonar 
9	Enhanced Perception +3 
6	Enhanced Percpetion: Taste +3 
22	Mind Link: Ocean Mammals (+5), Any distance (+5), 0 END 
20	Multiform: Cetus Dauphin, 100 Point total 
15	Universal Translator:J18-, Ocean Mammals only (-1) 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	Dependence: Water, 2d6/5 Minutes 
15	DF: Huge, 20' long dolphin 
15	Phys: No Fine Manipulaiton 
10	Phys: No Sense of Smell 
20	Psych: Protective of aquatic mammals 
10	Psych: Hates land dwellers (esp Japanese, Norwegians and Soviets) 
10	Vuln: Water-borne posions and gases:Jx2 Body 
 
 
(Aquarius created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:33:18 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: Char: CT (Cosmic Traveler) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
COSMIC TRAVELER 
(Damon Strange) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Cosmic Traveler stand 5'10" tall and weighs 145 lbs.  His costume consists 
of a tight-fighting body suit and a black hooded cloak that is lined with 
a glowing starfield.  Traveler's actual appearence is of a stoop 
shouldered man with a thin chest, arms and legs and a slight pot belly. 
Among his ace powers is the ability to change his shape, so he normally 
looks much more imposing.  Traveler has a number of powers, including 
Desoldification, Invisibility, Flight and a powerful will... He's also a 
total coward, and is prone to flee from any threatening situation. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		9		-1 
Dex		23		39 
Con		20		20 
Body		13		6 
Int		26		16 
Ego		40		60 
Pre		10		0 
Com		8		-1 
PD		4		2 
ED		4		0 
Spd		4		7 
Rec		6		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		28		0 
Char Total			148 
Power Total			229 
Total Cost			377 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
40	Desoldification, END 4 
40	Invisibility: Sight Group, No Fringe, 0 END, Linked to Desolid 
	(-1/2) 
13	Life Support: Self-contained breathing, Immune to Vaccum 
30	15" Flight, END 3 
2	Running: +1" (7" total) 
45	Shapeshift - anything of same mass, 0 END 
7	+10 PRE, Linked to Shapeshift 
3	+10 COM, Linked to Shapeshift 
9	Enhanced Perception: +3 
 
13	Acting 16- 
3	Lockpicking 14- 
13	Mimicry 16- 
5	Shadowing 12- 
3	Sleight of Hand 14- 
3	Stealth 14- 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
25	Psych: Total Coward 
15	Psych: Arrogant, egotistical snob 
10	Psych: Terrified of bugs and other crawly things 
20	Vuln: 2 x Effect from Fear-based PRE attacks 
207	Experience 
 
(Cosmic Traveler created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:34:45 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Jumping Jack Flash) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
JUMPING JACK FLASH 
(John Jacob Flash) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Flash is a small man, standing 5'6" and weighing 135 lbs.  He has red 
hair, a handsome face and wears an orange bodysuit, open down to the 
navel, trimmed in red and yellow flames.  His ace powers include the 
ability create and control fire.  He can fire bolts of flame, create a 
flaming rope (that will not burn), fly and extinguish fires.  At times, 
he's been known to create and play flaming guitars. 
 
Note: JJ Flash totals 492 points and thus is the most expensive of the 
Captain's assorted forms.  This means that he's been saddled with the cost 
of the Multiform power.  Aquarius is considered the 'second' from is has a 
point cost of (total points/5).  All other forms have a point cost of 
(total/10). 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		20		10 
Dex		31		63 
Con		23		23 
Body		12		4 
Int		18		8 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		20		5 
PD		24		20 
ED		30		25 
Spd		5		9 
Rec		10		2 
End		60		7 
Stun		34		0 
Char Total			205 
Power Total			510 
Total Cost			715 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
30	EC: Pyrokinesis 
30	12d6 EB, END 6 
30	6d6 EB, AoE: Line (24"), END 6 
37	3d6 RKA, AP, END 7 
24	30 STR TK, 0 END, Affects all parts of target (-1/4) 
15	Damage Reduction: 3/4 Energy, Resistant, Vs fire only (-1) 
13	10d6 Dispell vs RKA, AoE: Radius (3"), 0 END, No Range, Vs natural 
	fires only (-2) 
30	30" Flight (60" noncombat), END 6 
 
15	6d6 Absorbtion vs Energy, to END, Fire attacks only (-1) 
27	Full Damage Resistance 
4	Running: +2" (8" total) 
 
3	Conversation 13- 
3	KS: Guitar 13- 
3	KS: Law 13- 
3	PS: Lawyer (INT) 13- 
3	PS: Play Guitar (DEX) 15- 
3	Seduction 13- 
6	CSL: +2 with Pyrokinesis EC 
8	CSL: +4 with Flight 
 
223	Multiform:JCaptain Trips (64 points), Cosmic Traveler (377 points) 
	Starshine (378 points), Moonchild (450 points), Aquarius (478 
	points) IIF: Little glass bottles (-1/4), Gestures (must open 
	bottle and swallow) (-1/4) 5 continuous charges of 1 Hour each 
	(+1/2) 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	Psych: Hates bullies and cruelty 
15	Psych: Impulsive and Reckless 
15	Psych: Womanizer 
10	Vuln: 1 1/2 x Body from Water Attacks 
20	Vuln: 2 x Stun from Water Attacks 
540	Experience 
 
(Jumping Jack Flash created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:36:21 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Moonchild) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(my favorite of the Captian's friends) 
 
MOONCHILD 
(Isis Moon) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Moonchild is a tall, exotic looking Asian beauty.  Standing 5'7", and 
weigh 120, she is graceful, with a well-muscled form and long black hair. 
She wears a skintight black costume, complete with gloves and boots.  On 
her chest is black and white yin-yang symbol.  A similarly patterned 
half-mask covers her face.  A master martial artist, Moonchild is stronger 
than a normal human and *much* faster.  She is also able to make the dark 
her home, and can become invisible, as well as teleport amid the shadows. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		23		13 
Dex		36		78 
Con		20		20 
Body		14		8 
Int		18		8 
Ego		21		22 
Pre		20		10 
Com		22		6 
PD		20		15 
ED		10		6 
Spd		7		24 
Rec		10		2 
End		36		0 
Stun		36		0 
Char Total			212 
Power Total			238 
Total Cost			450 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	MA: Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido 
4	Arm Sweep Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
5	Crescent Kick Block  +1 OCV  +3 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Disarm  -1 OCV  +1 DCV  33 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Escape  +0 OCV  +0 DCV  38 STR vs Grabs 
5	Flying Side Kick  +1 OCV  -2 DCV  8 1/2d6 Strike 
4	Front Kick  +01 OCV  +2 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Joint Lock  +0 OCV  -1 DCV  Grab One Limbs; 33 STR to Hold  
4	Punch / Elbow Strike  +2 OCV  +0 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
5	Side / Roundhouse Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  8 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Sweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  5 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
3	Takedown  +1 OCV  +1 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
3	Throw  +0 OCV  +1 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
 
7	Damage Reduction: 1/4 Physical, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
8	Damage Resistance: 10 PD/5 ED 
40	Invisibility: Sight Group, No Fringe, 0 END, Requires shadows or  
	darkness (-1/2) 
11	Mental Defense: 15 DEF 
10	Clinging: 23 STR 
8	Running: +4" (10" total), END 2 
15	Invisible Power Effects: Hearing, 0 END, on 10" Running 
13	Teleport: 10", Requires shadows or darkness (-1/2), END 2 
5	UV Vision 
6	1/2 END, STR 
 
3	Acrobatics 16- 
3	Breakfall 16- 
5	Combat Sense 14- 
10	Defense Maneuver (full) 
3	KS: Hapkido 13- 
3	KS: Tae Kwon Do 13- 
3	KS: Zen Philosophy 13- 
9	Shadowing 14- 
3	Stealth 16- 
13	Lang: English (3), French (3), Japanese (1 - literacy only), 
	Korean (0), Mandarin Chinese (3), Portuguese (3) 
3	Linguist 
6	CSL: +2 with Martial Arts 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Exotic beauty 
20	Psych: Cannot kill; cannot even cause serious harm to a human 
being 
15	Psych: Fatalistic and without fear 
10	Psych: Hates the South Korean governtment 
295	Experience 
 
(Moonchild created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:37:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Starshine) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
STARSHINE 
(Justin Bright) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Starshine is a huge imposing figure, well muscled, who stands 6'4" and 
weighs 234 lbs.  He has a solid, square jaw, green eyes and wavy, 
yellow-blond hair.  His costume consists of a yellow bodystocking with an 
orange sunburst on the chest, and green trunks, gloves and folded over 
boots.  His powers are the manipulation of light itself, allowing him to 
generate bolts of pure light energy, create a protective field, exist in 
space and transform himself into a beam of light.  He is very arrogant, 
and opinionated and will quite gladly lecture *anyone* on the evils of 
*Everything*. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		40		30 
Dex		18		24 
Con		23		26 
Body		13		6 
Int		18		8 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		23		13 
Com		24		7 
PD		8		0 
ED		8		3 
Spd		5		22 
Rec		14		2 
End		46		0 
Stun		45		0 
Char Total			157 
Power Total			221 
Total Cost			378 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
30	EC: Light Control 
30	12d6 EB, END 6 
32	25 DEF Force Field, 1/2 END, END 3 
24	Teleport: 30", Line of sight targets only and not through smoke, 
	tinted glass etc (-1/4), END 6 
24	Teleport: 5", x2048 noncombat (10240"), Line of sight targets only 
	and not through smoke, tinted glass etc (-1/4), END 1 
 
20	8d6 Absorbtion vs Energy, to END, Visible light attacks only (-1) 
30	Full Life Support 
10	FTL: 1 light year a year 
4	KS: Literature 
1	KS: Poetry 8- 
3	Oratory 14- 
3	Persuasion 14- 
4	CSL: +2 OCV with EB 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Haymaker, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Large, muscular Adonis figure 
15	Psych: Dislike of 'bad elements' 
20	Psych: Must pontificate before any confrontation 
15	Psych: Stubborn and *very* opinionated 
218	Experience 
 
(Starshine created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:05:30 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Curt Hicks writes: 
>  
>  
> The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
> exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
> degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
 
Reduce target's endurance to zero (via drain or suppress).  Target now has to 
burn stun to spend endurance. 
>  
> I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
> not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
> to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
As a rule, no (definition of legal defense for NND is somewhat unclear). 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:22:53 -0400 
From: Dave Thompson <ezadd@bconnex.net> 
Organization: Blackeagle/Blackeagle Canada 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
> threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
> who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
> players. 
 
	Ah..but what if the Doctor did finish the big baddie off and left the 
heroes without pummelling their remains into the turf? How would they 
feel next time they had to go off and try to stop him?? Just a thought 
 
Dave 
 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Date: Thu, 29 May 97 22:09:55 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
Joe Claffey Jr. 
 
>Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote, 
>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
>> 
>>DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
>>DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
>>DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
>>DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
>> 
>>Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
>>disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
>>So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
>>there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
> 
> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
Does Body on a NND should be a +2 advantage for a total of +3 total.  I'm 
basing that on NND on Killing attacks (used in poison rules) being a +2 
advantage.  It's probably an arguable position though. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:10:39 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
 
> 
>All these ideas are wonderfull.  And if your players wouldn't feel cheated 
>not being the ones who dealt the final blow then you should just run with it. 
> I backed the "queen bee" story line on the assumption that the invaders were 
>bad guys who needed to be stopped.  If if turns out they *are* wimps or 
>fleeing a greater terror (I like the fleeing especially) then of course the 
>scene is different.  But if they are fleeing to earth then we have the 
>pursuers to worry about. 
> 
>My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
>threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
>who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
>players.   
> 
 
in one of my campagns, the invasion started with the aliens oblitering all the toughest villans. Maybe Dr destroyer in a wheel-chair? 
 
 
 
>It is also very possible that you want the invasion to change the face of 
>your campaing.  Maybe they actualy are friendly and misunderstood.  Or maybe 
>they do take control of Hoboken. 
> 
 
In my opinion any 'campagn arc' should change the campagn. just my opinion, is all. 
 
 
>There are an infinate number of ways to play it.  But if you want the 
>invasion to be just one story arc out of many without altering too much the 
>face of your world, then the invaders must be dealt with somehow, and you 
>must consider the personality of your players and their team.  Would they 
>mind merely fighting a few battles or holding up the rear while some other 
>NPC heros took the glory? 
> 
 
 
but what if the 'rear-guard' ended up being the important battle? 
anyone else see the premiere of "Space: Above and Beyond"? 
 
 
 
 
>And of course the "Queen Bee" could be anything.  I did not mean to imply 
>that the good guys burst in with guns (and EBs) blazing.  What I meant was 
>that there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
>everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
>behind...in front of) that Event. 
> 
 
this i have to disagree with. One event is an oversimplification, IMHO. 
 
>I should have been more exacting...less flippant in my original post. 
> 
be as flippant as you want. I condone flippancy. MORE FLIPPANCY ON CHAMP-L!!!  
I am just a bit leery of the 'star trek' type plots, is  
all. 
 
 
 
>Jay A 
> 
 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Date: Thu, 29 May 97 22:20:43 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
cc: <champ-l@omg.org> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
Anthony Jackson 
 
>Curt Hicks writes: 
>> I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
>> not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
>> to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
>As a rule, no (definition of legal defense for NND is somewhat unclear). 
 
NND only calls for something reasonably common that can turn the power  
off. 
So if the defence is not spending END, that qualifies.  However, if a  
target 
stops burning END for 1 phase in that case, the wrack is cancelled and  
the  
target can then expend END again with no further ill effects. 
 
>> The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
>> exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
>> degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
> 
>Reduce target's endurance to zero (via drain or suppress).  Target now has to 
>burn stun to spend endurance. 
 
Try a continuous uncontrolled EGO Blast with the limitation, dice applied  
proportional to END spent.  The limitation would be up to the GM, but I'd  
call it a -1/2 or so.  You could also use the Cumulative (+1/2) advantage  
off of transform.  Then the attack should eventually overwhelm any  
defences 
the target has assuming they continue to expend end. 
 
A word of warning...No END Continuous Uncontrolled Cumulative is NOT a  
good 
idea.  It evenually puts a target into a coma with little to nothing that 
can be done about it.  My GM did this with a SPE drain, needless to say no 
one was comfortable about it.  If you do do something like this, make  
sure  
to require some method of stopping it, whether its a mind control from a 
friendly to set things right or some drug or something. 
 
PAX 
 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:12:59 -0400 
X-Sender: arsenal@pop.iquest.net 
From: Tony Satterthwaite <arsenal@iquest.net> 
Subject: Top Ten Reasons to Suspect You Might be a Gamer 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
>Return-Path: <LghtnBolt@aol.com> 
>Delivered-To: arsenal@iquest.net 
>Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 03:03:25 -0400 (EDT) 
>From: LghtnBolt@aol.com 
>To: arsenal@iquest.net 
>Subject: Top Ten Reasons to Suspect You Might be a Gamer 
> 
> 
>TOP TEN REASONS TO SUSPECT YOU MIGHT BE A GAMER 
> 
>10)   You realize it's time to explain to junior Samuel isn't really a family 
>name, he was actually named after Sam Sun, the Shining  Samauri, one of the 
>founding members of the Gainesville Guardians. 
> 
>9)  You see the dictionary as a source of supervillians, creating teams like 
>the                 Terrible T's and the Killer Bs with a couple dozen 
>villians based on a single letter of the alphabet 
>                                                 
>        
>8)    After a phone call from an aggressive telemarketer who won't take "no" 
>for an .      answer you drop everything to create the Red Ringer, a demented 
>psychopath who screams "I SAID  I WASN"T INTERESTED!!" over and over until 
>his voice shatters his victoms eardrums. 
> 
>7)    You still have nightmares about all the things that went wrong with the 
>whole 
>"if-I-create-a-killer-tornado-20-miles-wide-and-start-wasting-hoosiers-they-MU 
>ST-make-me-King-of-Indiana" plot. 
> 
>6)    You wake up in the morning, hear the rain, and your first thought is:   
>.           "Fantastic!  My talking bullfrog is gonna LOVE today!" 
> 
>5)   You realize your typing has increased by 30 words a minute because of 
>all the  time you've spent working on the problems associated with creating a 
>unique magic system  
> 
>4)     At a party, after too many drinks, you realize you're saying"Yeah, I 
>killed ,       George Bush one New Year's Eve.  Sure, the damn good-guys 
> turned me to stone right afterwards but it was worth it."   and you actually 
>puff your chest out in pride as you boast:    "I was the reason  Dan Quail 
>became the  President in our realitiy!"  
> 
>3)     You watch every 60 minutes, Nightline, Dateline, Discovery Channel, 
>and Learning Channel  special you can find if it's about genetics, always 
>hoping to come with an even better way to build flying monkeys. 
> 
>2)    You realize this has to be at least the hundredth time you've had to 
>defend yourself for going back into the burning building for your gaming 
>files instead of the kittens. 
> 
>and the Number One Reason to Suspect You Might Be A Gamer... 
> 
>During foreplay you find yourself repeatedly saying:  "Do it, Babeazon!  Use 
>your Enchanted Handcuffs!" 
> 
>LghtnBolt@aol.com   Bill O'Neal              
> 
> 
Tony Satterthwaite 
http://www.iquest.net/~arsenal   Last Updated Jan 22, 1997 
Arizona Diamondbacks, CCABL APBA (c)  Baseball League 
*******							************* 
Government-run, tax-funded schools are nothing more than educational welfare. 
Separate school and state and free your children. 
Check out www.sepschool.org 
********						************* 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:18:29 -0500 
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
At 06:53 PM 5/29/97 +1000, happyelf! wrote: 
>here's a very small guide: 
> 
>-1/4 anything not involved directly in the campaign, like an effect that you 
>make up and the gm says "yeah, shure, whatever . ." 
> 
 
  In my Campaigns these are called -0 Limitations, "A limitation that does 
not limit is not a LIMITATION and is not worth a point break". Generally I 
just disallow most of these silly/stupid things.... 
 
 
>-1/2 Something really involved with the character: like kryptonite or 
silver, >something the character will see a lot of, within the plot of the 
setting(it not >just a random thingie) 
> 
 
Based on your examples, Kryptonite (at least for S-Man) would be a -1/4 in 
my campaigns (it's SUPPOSED to be rather rare), Silver would be worth a 
-1/2 ONLY 
if everyone new the character was affected by silver (ie A werewolf) 
otherwise it also would be a -1/4. 
 
  My general guideline is: 
 
	For every eight adventures how often will this effect you: 
 
		Once=			-1/4 
		Two Adventures=	-1/2 
 
		etc 
 
		Every Adventure	-2 
	Again this is only a guideline, but it works for me, and it keeps players 
	from coming up with "-1/4  Doesn't work when all the planets form a 
straight line from the sun" which happens (IIRC) about once every 10,000 yrs. 
 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:27:27 -0400 (EDT) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
> 	from coming up with "-1/4  Doesn't work when all the planets form a 
> straight line from the sun" which happens (IIRC) about once every 10,000 yrs. 
>  
>  
   Well, you could allow it.  Then have Galactus come by once a month and  
re-arrange the planets into a nice, neat line. :-) 
 
                                             Daniel Pawtowski 
 
 
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:54:40 -0400 (EDT) 
cc: catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Hmmmnn, 20 STR?  Ithink that is an underestimate . . . 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Carter Humphrey                                       BeerCarboy@AOL.com 
 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Date: Fri, 30 May 97 10:12:21 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
 
> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average  
42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I  
get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod  
and NO defenses).  
 
That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or  
those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:22:47 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
John P Weatherman writes: 
 
> NND only calls for something reasonably common that can turn the power  
> off. 
> So if the defence is not spending END, that qualifies.  However, if a  
> target 
> stops burning END for 1 phase in that case, the wrack is cancelled and  
> the  
> target can then expend END again with no further ill effects. 
  
No, you're thinking of 'uncontrolled'.  'Not spending END for a phase' 
certainly qualifies as a legitimate way to turn an uncontrolled power off. 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 12:55:15 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: susano@access.digex.net, champ-l@omg.org, catdrag@vnet.net, 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
On Fri, 30 May 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote: 
 
> Hmmmnn, 20 STR?  Ithink that is an underestimate . . . 
 
Using my (rough) conversion charts, Aquarius would have an 18 STR.  I 
upped this to 20, but after reading Wildcards Book II, agree that he 
should probably have a 25 (maybe 30).  I don't think the GURPS Wildcards 
book fully represents that character properly. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:07:55 -0700 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Reply-To: tstatler@igateway.net 
Subject: Character Challenge (long) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
A hero I have has 2 DNPCs. I'd like to challenge the list to create one 
or both of them. I'll give you some background and a few possible disads 
and let the creators create. There is no prize but the final 2 choices 
I'll repost and recognize the author. 
 
Without further ado here are their backgrounds. 
 
Grampa William Smith (I'm terrible with names) 
 
Billy Smith was a young golden gloves boxer in the late 1930s - early 
1940s. He was on the way to making a name for himself when the US became 
invovled in WWII. Like most of his generation, he volunteered for the 
Marines. He fought in the Pacific campaign, Island hoping. During one 
fight, he rescued an injured Japanese soldier from being killed 
outright. The soldier wasn't the simple man Billy thought and according 
to tradition, now owed Billy his life. 
 At the time Billy didn't give it much thought. After the war, he went 
back to his Boxing career. He unfortuneately fell into the clutches of 
the wrong people, people who could garentee him wins. Billy realized 
only when it was too late, what the enevitable was going to be. To 
garuntee a life for his new wife and son he bought a gym in [campaign 
city]. A little over a year later, the men who managed him told him to 
take a dive or else. Billy decided to stand up to them and ended up 
beating his opponent. The men who he had burned decided to get even. 
They caught him unaware and beat him, breaking his back in the process. 
To keep him from testifing against them, they threatened his family. 
 He went home to manage the Gym. A few weeks later a knock on the door 
heralded the arrival of the Japanese soldier he had saved. The Japanese 
moved into a small apartment over the Gym and did wwhatever work the gym 
needed. His discussions with the Japanese led William to go to the 
police with what he knew of the Gangsters. Days later, his apartment 
caught fire while he was at the gym, killing his wife. He moved into the 
Apartment over the gym with his son (who had been in school at the time 
of the fire).  
 Years later his son was grown, married and had a young boy of his own. 
Tragedy struck again, as his son and wife were killed in a traffic 
accident. William Smith took in his Grandson to finish raising, 
instilling in him a sense of right and wrong, using himself as a 
negative example. Later the boy became X and fought the gangs and other 
villians as a costumed hero. 
 
Mr.Hitaschu Myogi (If you know Japanese spelling please correct mine, 
written in Western Style) 
 
Myogi had grown up in a family of samuri, and masters of the martial 
arts, instilling in him a code of duty and honor. He joined the imperial 
marines upon reaching adulthood, and fought in the pacific during WWII. 
His life took a great turn when, while wounded and about to be killed by 
an American soldier, another intervended and saved his life. He went 
into a POW camp for the remainder of the war and home after the 
surrender. 
He search for the American to whom he owed the life debt, but didn't 
find him until he saw a newspaper article about a boxer who had been 
nearly killed by Mobsters. He recognized him as the man who saved his 
life and sold what he had to travel to America.  
He took a job working for his new freind doing watever was needed at the 
gym, from cleaning to fixing broken plumbing. He also debated life with 
him, trying to instill honor. After William Smith's wife died, he shared 
his living space with the man and his son.  
 When William took in his grandson, Mr. Myogi (What the boy always 
called him) taught him the ways of the samuri and karate. The boy took 
to the training rather easily and became a master himself.  
 
Here is some disads and othe rnotes for the 2 DNPCs: 
 
William Smith: 
Incompetent DNPC 
may have a few jabs etc. still in memory. 
 
AGE 60+ (approx 75 to 80 now) 10 pts 
Pys Lim: Paralzed from waist down, can't walk. freq,great  15 pts 
Distinctive features: Wheelchair, conceal w/effort, is always noticed  
15 pts. 
 
 
Mr. Hitaschu Myogi 
Normal DNPC 
 
Karate Master 
 
Age 40+ (about same age as William Smith but in much better shape)  5 
points 
Dis Feature: Japanese easily conceal, note&recognized     5 points 
Psych LIm: Indebted to, loyal to William Smith (common, strong) 
(this is just a minimum. could be stronger if modeled correctly.) 
 
 
 
Thanks and good huniting 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:14:00 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Great and Powerful Turtle 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TURTLE 
(Thomas Tudbury) 
 
Designers Notes: 
The Turtle is *the* most powerful telekineticist in the world.  As Thomas 
Tudbury, the Turtle stands 5'9" and weighs about 170 lbs, with collar 
length dark brown hair.  Within his 'shell' however, the Turtle become a 
true 'superhero', righting wrongs, saving those in distress and doing his 
best to combat crime.  Although he's become a bit cynical over the years, 
the Turtle still keeps at it, doing his best to keep the streets of New 
York safe for everyone. 
 
Note: Some people way want to give the Turtle some for of Variable Area of 
Affect advantage to the Turtle's TK.  He can use his TK much like a giant 
pair of hands, pushing people about, picking up masses of water and so on. 
The 100 STR value was achieved due to the fact that the Turtle *lifted* 
the battleship New Jersey out of the water for 30 seconds one day. 
 
Note II:  Turtles Hero ID requires him to be inside of his Shell to use 
his powers.  He can over come this psychological crutch outside of his 
Shell, but the Turtle is limited to about 10 STR and a x10 END cost. 
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		9		-1 
Dex		11		3 
Con		11		2 
Body		10		0 
Int		18		8 
Ego		15		10 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		0 
Spd		3		9 
Rec		4		0 
End		22		0 
Stun		21		0 
Char Total			31 
Power Total			318 
Total Cost			349 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
240	TK: 100 STR, Invisible to Sight (+1/2), 0 END, Only in HID (-1/4) 
 
31	Vehicle: Turtle's Shell 
 
10	Wealth 
6	AK: New York City 16- 
9	Electronics 14- 
6	KS: Comic Books 16- 
4	KS: Electronics 14- 
2	PS: Electrician 11- 
5	Systems Operation 14- 
5	Trading 12- 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	Phys: Bad eyes, needs glasses 
15	Psych: Protective of innocents, feels it is his duty to aid those 
	in trouble 
10	Psych: Shy, tends to keep to himself 
15	Secret ID 
 
(The Great and Powerful Turtle created by George R R Martin, character 
sheet created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:15:06 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TURTLE'S SHELL 
 
This is Turtle's shell.  It is made from old battleship armor plate, 
layered over (at least the first time around) the body of a Volkswagen 
Beetle.  Later models have included a reclining chair, refrigerator, 
external spotlights, a loudspeaker system and an on board computer.  I'll 
leave those sorts of modifications up to individual GMs. 
 
STAT		VALUE		COST 
Size		3.2x1.6		25	 
DCV		-3		 
Mass (KB)	4t (-3)		 
STR		35		0 
DEF		20		54 
BODY		15		0 
DEX		11		3 
SPD		3		9 
Flt Move	30"		60 
MAX		180 
Char Total			151 
Equip Total			21 
Total Cost			172 
 
COST	EQUIPMENT	 
5	360 Degree Vision IAF (cameras) 
6	HRRH, IIF (internal radio) 
2	IRJVision (IR filters for cameras), IAF 
8	Radar, IIF 
 
Disadvantages 
157	Base 
15	DF: Turtle's Shell, a one-of-a-kind vehicle 
 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:15:08 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
"David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> wrote, 
>On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
> 
>> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
> 
>Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average 
>42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I 
>get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod 
>and NO defenses). 
> 
>That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or 
>those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
 
 The 12d6 EB that bypasses defenses is the *standard* way to do Side Effect 
(at the -1 level). My method reduces it to 4d6. 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:56:48 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Joe Claffey Jr. wrote: 
>  
> "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> wrote, 
> >On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
> > 
> >> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
> >>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
> >>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
> >>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
> > 
> >Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average 
> >42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I 
> >get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod 
> >and NO defenses). 
> > 
> >That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or 
> >those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
>  
>  The 12d6 EB that bypasses defenses is the *standard* way to do Side Effect 
> (at the -1 level). My method reduces it to 4d6. 
 
 
I dont have my books with me, and maybe this was a house rule, but an 
old GM always made the side effect NND for free.  His logic?  If not 
NND, it wasn't worth anything (especially the 30 pt effect level).  If 
you get to apply your defenses towards the side effect, how often is 6d6 
going to get through?  Go ahead and give me that freebie -1/2 side 
effect on ALL of my powers!! 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:25:45 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
 
> BODY		15		0 
> DEX		11		3 
> SPD		3		9 
> Flt Move	30"		60 
> MAX		180 
 
Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
powerful TK. 
 
Curt  
 
p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:27:57 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wrack power 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
D'oh !  Thanks to all who pointed out that the spending stun as endurance  
rules nicely takes care of this, assuming you can nullify all of somebody's 
endurance.    
 
Curt  
 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:17:44 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>I dont have my books with me, and maybe this was a house rule, but an 
>old GM always made the side effect NND for free.  His logic?  If not 
>NND, it wasn't worth anything (especially the 30 pt effect level).  If 
>you get to apply your defenses towards the side effect, how often is 6d6 
>going to get through?  Go ahead and give me that freebie -1/2 side 
>effect on ALL of my powers!! 
 
In the original Fantasy Hero rules that is how it worked... but they changed 
that with 4th edition.  The comments about how little effect 30 active 
points has are based only on Champions experience.  Make a wizard for 
Fantasy hero some time and see what the 2D6 HKA or a 3D6 flash side effect 
does... especially when the spell is less than 30 active points its self. 
 
In my opinion, the side effects should be more like this: 
 
        -1/2: 10 active points or 1/2 the points of the power 
          -1: 30 active points or equal to power  
        whichever is greater. 
         
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Opal@october.com (Opal) 
Date: 31 May 97 02:29:02 GMT 
Subject: Determining Limitations 
X-Ftn-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!opal 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
 r > Hello All,  
 r >  
 r > Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of  
 r > non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the  
 r > subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make  
 r > it  
 r > totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial).  
 r >  
 r > Rob  
  
One old rule of thumb for Limitations in the 'only when' or  
'not when' structure (where you either can use the power or cant):  
  
  The limitation should come up, on average, in about as many games  
as the proportion of the limitation:  so a 1/2 Lim, would come up  
in about half the games played, a -1 in most of them, and a -2 more  
than once in practically every game.  
  
For limitations that reduce the utility of a power, you're pretty much  
stuck comparing them to existing lims - find an existing limitation that  
is *more* limiting than the new one, and use it as a maximum.  
  
For limitations that are the 'reverse' of advantages:  If you want to  
play it conservative, say that they are half the value of the advantage:  
For instance:  Instant (-1/2) is the reverse of Constant (+1).  However,  
there are also instances where the vaules are the same at range and  
no range are +1/2 and -1/2, respectively.  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
___  
 * OFFLINE 1.58  
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:39:00 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Fri, 30 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
 
> Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
>  
> > BODY		15		0 
> > DEX		11		3 
> > SPD		3		9 
> > Flt Move	30"		60 
> > MAX		180 
>  
> Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
> capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
> powerful TK. 
 
Uhm, well, yes... but in effect, the Shell is a vehicle and not a focus. 
Even the GURPS sourcebook lists it a 'vehicle' of sorts. 
 
> p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
 
Thanks! 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:11:19 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
 
I stumbled across a neat site that has sparked several scenario ideas.  
It has all kinds of articles on the latest and greatest science news 
(including things like new findings about stars and planets, the effects 
of space travel on germs and bacteria, the current status of the Russian 
space program, etc).  All the neat things that might trigger a new super 
hero or villian, or might be the target of that slightly insane 
scientist...  The site is http://www.sciencenow.org if you want to check 
it out. 
 
This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
 
Todd 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:13:39 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Spawn? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
After watching the latest episode of the new Spawn animated series, I 
realized that I actually have no clue what the guys actual powers are.  
I never bothered with the comic when it came out (seemed like just 
another Image 'anti-hero' title).    
 
Has anyone attempted a Champions write up of Spawn?  Would you like to 
share it with me (and the list?) 
 
Todd 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:33:51 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 97-05-30 12:12:09 EDT, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
(happyelf!) writes: 
 
>  >...there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
>  >everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
>  >behind...in front of) that Event. 
>  > 
>   
>  this i have to disagree with. One event is an oversimplification, IMHO. 
   
I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there are 
unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final Chapter. 
 And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
if the Event didn't feature them.   
 
I don't think you're disagreeing with me on this point.  At least I hope your 
not. 
 
And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
 
I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon.   
In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
simplify". 
 
Of course Thoreau said it three times when he only needed to once. 
 
Jay "the flip" A. 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:35:40 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Wildcards characters 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
For anyone who is keeping track, here is a list of completd (nad planned) 
GURPS Wildcards conversions.  Note, not all the complete characters have 
been posted yet. 
 
	NAME				POINTS	 
	Astronomer, The	 
	Bagabond	 
	Black Eagle	 
	Bludgeon			129 
	Cpt. Trips			64 
	(Aquarius)			100 
	(Aquarius - Dolphin Form)	478 
	(Cosmic Traveler)		377 
	(Jumping Jack Flash)		715 
	(Moonchild)			450 
	(Starshine)			378 
	Carnifex			334 
	Chaisson Cordelia		201 
	Chickenhawk			52 
	Cyclone				302 
	Deadhead	 
	Demise	 
	Dr. Tachyon	 
	Elephant Girl			92 
	(Elephant form)			341 
	Envoy, The	 
	Fadeout				210 
	Fantasy	 
	Father Squid			178 
	Fortunato	 
	Gimli				106 
	Golden Boy			309 
	Harlem Hammer, The		310 
	Howler, The			244 
	Kid Dinosaur	 
	Kien Phuc			136 
	Mistral	 
	Lazy Dragon	 
	Mackie Messer			336 
	Modular Man			631 
	Oddity, The			199 
	Peregrine			196 
	Popinjay			463 
	Puppetman	 
	Quasiman			200 
	Quinn the Eskimo	 
	Sewer Jack			75 
	(Alligator form)		179 
	Sleeper, The			varies 
	Steele, George	 
	Strauss, Jerimiah		100 
	Ti Malice			201 
	Travineck, Maxim	 
	Troll				153 
	Turtle, The			349 
	(Shell)				172 
	Warlock	 
	Water Lily	 
	Whisperer	 
	Worchester, Hiram	 
	Wraith				232 
	Wyrm				285 
	Wyungare			170 
	Yeoman				335 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Date: Sat, 31 May 97 09:37:50 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
happyelf!!!! 
 
>> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
>> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
>> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there  
are 
>> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final  
Chapter. 
>>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
>> if the Event didn't feature them. 
> 
>yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps  
>going, and where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is  
>a bad idea.  
 
In my experience, the rules of good literature, when applied to  
role-playing,  
make execellent role-playing.  A story should tie up and should have a  
cumulating Event.  This does not imply an ending however sence, just like 
novels, the next sequel is always arround the corner.  As a player, I get 
VERY discouraged when there aren't final grant Events, one per story arc,  
to cleanly let the playing move into a new arena. 
 
I do agree that some things that work in literature don't work in  
role-playing 
very well, precognition being at the top of my list, but the basic  
structure 
works very well. 
 
>> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
>> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
>> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
>> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
>> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
>>  
> 
>but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in  
>all the crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know 
>. . . .it was a good use of his character . .  . 
 
Crossovers do not preclude the use of a final cumulating even that ends  
the 
mechanism by which the crossover occured. 
 
> 
>> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
>> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
>> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
>> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
>> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
>> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
>> simplify". 
>>  
> 
>but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
>sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
>a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
 
I would maintain that the biggest misconception I've come across is that  
the 
rules of literature shouldn't apply to role-playing.  A good RPG should a  
good 
story tell, and a good story should make a good book.  However I'll grant  
that 
a good book may not always work the best as an RPG.  The issue here being  
the 
writer doesn't control the main character anymore, the plotlines are  
usually  
still good material, the Events just never turn out right! :) 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:36:28 -0700 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:39 AM 5/31/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> wrote: 
>On Fri, 30 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
> 
>> Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
>>  
>> > BODY		15		0 
>> > DEX		11		3 
>> > SPD		3		9 
>> > Flt Move	30"		60 
>> > MAX		180 
>>  
>> Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
>> capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
>> powerful TK. 
> 
>Uhm, well, yes... but in effect, the Shell is a vehicle and not a focus. 
>Even the GURPS sourcebook lists it a 'vehicle' of sorts. 
> 
 
Well, since TK clearly states that you can't use TK to move yourself around. 
You can't pick up an object with TK, step on it, then fly around like the 
Silver Surfer. So you have to buy flight to simulate it. At most, the 
flight's special effect is Turtle's TK. 
 
>> p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
> 
 
Yep, they are way cool. :) 
 
-Nic 
 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:09:52 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Custom Character Drawings 
Cc: hero-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 07:04 AM 5/29/97 -0400, Legionair@aol.com wrote: 
><<I am afraid I can only send pictures by snail mail.  I can send copies of 
>some of the stuff I have done for others. 
>Patrick B.>> 
> 
>That's fine.  I'll give you my home address and you can mail the copies of  
>the samples there.  The best thing I can think of is to send me those  
>copies and tell me how much you charged for each of them...  That would  
>give me the best idea of what you have and what you charge for it... 
> 
>Here's another question...  Are there any genres you don't like to do?  Or do 
>you stick strictly to Champions type stuff? 
> 
 
 
Thanks for all those who expressed interest in my custom drawings.  Here is 
where thing stand. 
 
I have had someone generously offer to scan my work for me so that I can 
send out samples in (hopefully) the very near future.  As far as price goes 
I usually charge around $10.00 for an 8 1/2 X 11 color drawing on vellum 
bristol. 
 
I have no real qualms about other genres so much as certain subject matter. 
No nudity, partial or otherwise.  I avoid subject matter of a patently 
demonic  nature.  (ie I'd rather not do Spawn style characters)  I try to 
avoid multiple characters in one drawing.  I usually ask for someone to give 
me a description first and then I decide whether I can do it or not. 
Usually if I refuse a drawing it is because I just don't think I can do a 
decent, satisfactory job of it. 
 
As soon as I have the scans ready to send I willlet the list kn ow and then 
anyone who wants copies can request them.  Any questions should be directed 
to me at my address not the list.  I will post answers to the list only when 
I get enough of the same request to make it practical 
 
Thanks for the interest. 
 
I'll be in touch. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Date: Sat, 31 May 97 13:12:39 -0500 
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
 
 
-------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- 
 
> Date: Saturday, 31-May-97 09:37 AM 
>  
> From: John P Weatherman        \ Internet:    (asahoshi@nr.infi.net) 
> To:   champ-l@omg.org          \ Internet:    (champ-l@omg.org) 
>  
> Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
>  
> happyelf!!!! 
>  
> >> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional 
stories 
> >> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost 
always 
> >> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) 
there  
> are 
> >> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final  
> Chapter. 
> >>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the 
players 
> >> if the Event didn't feature them. 
> > 
> >yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps  
> >going, and where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is 
 
> >a bad idea.  
>  
 
	I find it helpful to remember that the basis for champions is super-hero 
comics.  And there is no "final moment" in the comics that I enjoy.  Oh sure 
, the heroes may beat, force, or out-think a threat into a kind of dormancy, 
but would Batman be as interesting if he had destroyed the Joker completely 
and permanently in their first encounter?  No, in champions, as in comics, a 
good plotline is a series of threats layered over each other. 
 
>  
> >> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change 
the 
> >> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
> >> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where 
bringing up 
> >> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as 
they're 
> >> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
> >>  
> > 
> >but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in 
 
> >all the crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know 
> >. . . .it was a good use of his character . .  . 
 
	Exactly.  Keep the threat alive!  Keeps them on their toes.  Makes sure 
Superman doesn't become an overweight couch potato, ordering out for pizza  
("delivery please.  Address? 1 Fortress of Solitude.") and watching cnn for 
the Next Big Threat.  Kill 'em slowly with stress, I say. 
 
> > 
> >> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
> >> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the 
actual 
> >> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
> >> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the 
age 
> >> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
> >> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
> >> simplify". 
> >>  
> > 
> >but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
> >sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
> >a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
>  
 
	A good book? No.  But hopefully a heckuva comic book.  To draw on another 
analogy, a good champions campaign should be a nightmare for the heroes in 
which they are relentlessly pursued by an innumerable and unending stream of 
villains, or villanous deeds.  After all, if your group got together to play 
, and the campaign events consisted of receiving awards for the storyline 
they just ended, then "nothing else, guys.  Must be a slow week for crime!", 
they'd soon be bored.  But if they are attacked by a new threat while 
receiving the awards, well, then we're in business! 
 
X-Originating-IP: [206.39.35.204] 
From: "David Graham" <dgraham882@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Call for PBEM Lurkers 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:24:52 PDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(The following is an advertisement.) 
 
It's January 1, 1997.  The New Year has come.  The new century, and the  
new millenium, are soon to come as well.  Some say that the new  
millenium will bring about a glorious New Age.  However, there are dark  
forces that threaten to destroy the world as we know it.  The first  
signs are already in sight.  Crime and corruption are all around.  Drug  
abuse is on the rise, with the introduction of a narcotic called Power.   
The world teeters, heading toward the "Eve of Destruction." 
 
What do you do? 
 
(This is an advertisement for a Dark Champions PBEM called "Eve of  
Destruction.  Player slots are currently filled.  However, if you would  
like to be placed on the Lurkers list, please e-mail  
dgraham882@hotmail.com.  New Players will be selected from the Lurkers  
list as slots become open.) 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:26:55 -0700 
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there are 
> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final Chapter. 
>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
> if the Event didn't feature them. 
 
yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps going, and  
where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is a bad idea.  
 
>  
> I don't think you're disagreeing with me on this point.  At least I hope your 
> not. 
>  
 
yes, i am. not your tone,  your point.  
your tone is fine, your point is incorect. 
hence my point about your point, as opposed to a point about your tone(sorry) 
 
> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
>  
 
but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in all the  
crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know. . . .it was a good  
use of his character . .  . 
 
 
 
> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
> simplify". 
>  
 
but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
 
 
> Of course Thoreau said it three times when he only needed to once. 
>  
 
actually, he needed to say it three times- his secretary coudn't take dictation  
for nuts . .*lol* 
 
 
> Jay "the flip" A.flip away, man! 
 
 
so, what does the rest of the list think? 


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Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 05:42 PM