Week Ending June 28, 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 02:59:00 GMT
Subject: The Harlequin Challenge
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h >
h > My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
h > Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
h > Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
h > points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built
h > a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
h > (strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
h > have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
h > (Whew!!!!)
h >
h > Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
h > that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
Usually when you have a duplicating character like this - with two
duplicates that are less powerful than the combined character,
you build the full power character with some of his powers bought
'not when duplicated' (-1/2?) and duplication.
If the two weaker characters are substantially different from the
combined form (or you just don't want one of the duplicates
staggering under the wieght of more disadvantages) you could buy
The 'combined' form as the 'primary' character, who would take
Duplication to produce one of the lesser characters, and a (probably
linked) Multiform to change into the other. This way, the two
Duplicates can be built on equal total points and Disadvantages,
and only the primary form need bear the cost of the Duplication
and Multiform.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:33:43 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 probabilities
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At 06:31 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
(blah)
> TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
>many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
>tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
>arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
>a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
>Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
>Modifier.
(blah)
they didn't find anything. Daeldalus used the same system in it's Nexus game-
incidentally the only other good multigenre i've found.
All in all, this is what i object to. No one on the list persisted with the
"50%-50%" thingie fer long. A few people just said the game sucked.
Please, can we stay away from purposless stuff like this? Nobody cares about the
brilliant nuances of non-linear probability!! It all just makes it harder
for the GM to improvise with numbers. Yes, i say this afteer reading the whole thing, so please don't repost it.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:37:15 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 03:44 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
>> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>>
>> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>>
>> Filksinger
>>
>
>Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
>confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
>dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
>
>-Eric
>
>
i still like my slimebeast idea better. . . .
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
>> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
>
> That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
>lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
>singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
>what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
>other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
>characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
>characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
>thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
>PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
>all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
>because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
>
>
uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
and as for supes. . . .
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 05:16:00 GMT
Subject: ego power
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h > From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
h > To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
h > multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
h > on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
h >
h > Thanx
You're probably starting with the wrong power (Ego Attack). Instead,
buy an NND or AVLD Energy Blast, with the AE:Line Advantage. That's
a +2 advantage for the NND - 4d6 for 60 Apts. If you must, you could
take an EB with Based on Ego Combat Value instead. Same cost as the
NND, but will require a ECV roll against each victim, and goes against
EGO defense. Both are visible and take range mods, unlike an AE Ego
Attack, but the cost is more reasonable. Also, are you picturing a
line coming from the character or an AE that he puts out at a distance?
If the former, you can bring the cost down further with a 'no range'
limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * I am not a Rules Lawyer...I'm a Rules Activist.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:50:50 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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Daemon Devillore wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
> multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
> on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Hmmm...
4d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1 Area Effect Line (or radius, or
cone...)
60 active points and a downright nasty power.
Of course, if you want to get even UGLIER:
3d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1-1/2 Autofire vs Special Defenses,
+1/2 half end.
60 active points and usually doing 9-12 dice of NND damage to most
people (assuming the egoist has a decent ECV and mental defense is
fairly uncommon in the campaign)
Good luck on getting a GM to approve the last one though ;) (or still
having it after the first or second time you use it)
Todd
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:54 PST
Subject: ego power
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7
From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
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I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Thanx
From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:39:35 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: PBEM
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-=> Quoting to Mike Lehmann <=-
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
I can offer what I use for my PBEM. Here's an explained Tactical Sheet, which is how my players inform me of their actions each phase or turn.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Champions Tactics Sheet Battle # ___
Player: _________________________ Character: ______________________
Scenario: ______________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stance:
Total Offense Active Offense Balance Active Defense Total Defense
- Only pick one, please. This will give me an idea of what types of
actions you may take, as well as power levels you'll be using. Please
do not take "Total Offense", then ask to be defending as your
objective.
(IOW, how are your combat levels, if any, used, and what types of
attacks are you likely to use: Haymakers over nerve strikes, for
example).
Primary Objective:
- Engaging/avoiding a specific opponent
- For example, blasting the big tank, or dousing the flaming guy.
- Taking/avoiding a specific action
- Hitting that switch with my Batarang (tm) or avoiding being
pushed into the spinning blades of evisceration...
- Ensuring/preventing a specific event
- Making sure the President gives his speech, or preventing Dr. Mad
Scientist from pulling the death ray "ON" lever...
- Using/opposing a specific skill
- Setting up a security program for the base or disarming a bomb
laid by Doctor Demolition...
- Only 1 of the above for Primary Objective
Secondary Objective:
- Same rules as Primary
General Objectives:
- Can be up to 3 other actions of minor importance.
- Like deal with flying dudes, or cover my buddies... general
actions (which could be as detailed as you want 'em to be).
These priorities will give me an idea of what you'd plan on doing during
the fight. You can be as detailed as you like, but there is a 5-action
limit for most (1 primary, 1 secondary, 3 general)...
Observing:
- You can observe many things, but your perception of each is reduced.
1-2 things of key importance should be sufficient.
- Watching out for "unseen" foes may cause some firing at shadowy
figures.
Of course, if you're watching the shadows and someone springs out of
them, you'll have a good shot at them...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It can get a little confusing using it the first few times, but once you
get the hang of using it, it gives a lot of flexibility to the player
and (especially) the GM, who usually writes up the results of combat
actions...
mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net - - - - - Justice Krewe / Enigma Watch GM
- - - - - - http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html - - - - - -
... "Auto Repair Service. Try us once, you'll never go anywhere again."
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: GURPS to Hero (long)
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CONVERTING GURPS SUPERS TO HERO
The following is a rough outline of how to convert your typical GURPS
Supers character into Hero System character sheet. Note that this is
really a 'quick-and-dirty' guide to systems conversion, I am not all that
familiar with GURPS mechanics to try anything more complex than the
basics. This is also not an attempt to breakdown GURPS posers into their
HERO equivalents. I highly recommend that anyone trying to convert from
GURPS have (at least ) GURPS Supers available.
PART I: Characteristics
For converting from GURPS to Hero using the following chart (adapted from
Fantasy Hero 2nd Edition).
STR see below
DEX (DX x 2) -10
CON (HT x 2) -10
BODY HT and see below
INT (IQ x 2) -10
EGO see below
PRE 10 + (Charisma x 2.5) and see below
COM see below
PD Figured x 2 (note: this may result in very odd numbers)
ED Figured x 2 (ditto)
SPD Figured(Round Up) and see below
REC Figured
END Figured
STUN Figured
Note: the (CHAR x 2) -10 system works well enough for most translations.
When adapting low-level characters (ie. normals) this will result in Hero
Characteristics from 10 to 30. This may be a bit extreme for some GMs.
It tends to work out fine for Super Hero characters.
STR: this stat is a mess as far as translations go. GURPS STR is linear
(20 STR is 2x as strong as a 10 STR, 40 is as twice as strong as 20 etc.),
while Hero is exponential (each 5 points of STR is doubles your lifting
capacity). After some rough figuring based upon stated values in source
material and the GURPS maximum lifting rules I offer the following system:
GURPS HERO
15 13
16 14
17 15
18 16
19 17
20 18
21 19
22 20
26 23
30 25
33 28
35 30
45 33
55 35
65 38
75 40
90 43
110 45
130 48
150 50
180 53
210 55
250 58
290 60
350 63
410 65
BODY: some characters have the power of "Extra Hit Points". Add these to
the HT score to find the characters final BODY total.
EGO: There are several ways to handle this. One is to use (IQ x 2) -10,
which means that any smart character is going to have a high Ego as well.
Another is to use ((IQ + Strong Will) x2) -10. The third is to use IQ +
(Strong Will x 2) to determine EGO. The final is to use 10 + (Strong Will
x 2). The best method seems to be the third way.
PRE: Another way is to give the character +3 PRE for ever level of
Charisma they have.
COM: A rough correlation is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Hideous 0-2
Ugly 4-6
Unattractive 8
Attractive 12-14
Handsome/Beautiful 16-18
Very Handsome/Beautiful 20-22+
SPD: This is very tough. The move score given for characters only
reflects their actual movement. The character's Speed stat helps to
determine over all quickness. a very high GURPS Speed should mean a very
good Hero SPD. In many cases refer to the character description.
MOVE: use the GURPS movement score straight over as the Hero Running.
Some characters may have Flight, and some will have different Flight
numbers (such as a base flight and a "super" flight. In many cases the
Flight listed is a top speed. Usually these numbers can help determine
the characters actual SPD as well.
PART II: GURPS Advantages
A lot of this are similar to Hero Talents. Others are simulated by a
characteristic boost. See the chart below. Note: any GURPS Advantage not
listed is something that doesn't translate to Hero easily.
GURPS HERO
Absolute Direction Bump of Direction
Absolute Timing Absolute Time Sense
Acute Hearing PER bonus to hearing
Acute Taste and Smell PER bonus to taste/smell
Acute Vision PER bonus to sight
Alertness PER bonus
Ambidexterity Ambidexterity
Attractiveness see COM
Charisma see PRE
Clerical Investment Perk: Priest
Combat Reflexes Increase DEX or CSL with HTH
Danger Sense Danger Sense
Double-Jointed Double Jointed
Eidetic Memory Eidetic Memory
High Pain Threshold Add to PD or ED, 1/4 Damage Resistance,
Physical, Stun Only (-1/2)
Immunity to Disease Life Support: Immunity to Disease
Language Talent Linguist
Legal Enforcement Powers Perk: Legal Enforcement Powers (var)
Lightning Calculator Lightning Calculator
Luck: 15 Points 1d6 Luck
Luck: 30 Points 3d6 Luck
Military Rank Perk: Rank (var)
Night Vision UV Vision (except *total* darkness)
Strong Will see EGO
Toughness Add to PD or ED, Damage Resistance or Armor
Wealth see below
GURPS HERO
Dead Broke Destitute
Poor Poor
Struggling Middle Class
Average Middle Class
Comfortable Middle Class
Wealthy Well Off
Very Wealthy Wealthy
Filthy Rich Filthy Rich
Allies Follower
Patron Contact
PART III: Disadvantages
These are pretty simple. Most of them translate right over to Hero disads
pretty easy. I'd recommend getting a hold of a GURPS rule book to
determine exactly what some of the disads mean, but... A rough breakdown
of GURPS Disadvantages would be as follows:
GURPS HERO
SOCIAL see below
Odious Personal Habit Usually a DF, or a Psych Lim
Poverty see Wealth
Primitive Phys Lim: Doesn't understand/unfamiliar with 'x'
Reputation Reputation
Social Stigma Usually a DF, or a Rep.
PHYSICAL usually a Phys Lim. Note that some GURPS Physical
Limitations may or may not be consider "valid"
limitations by Hero GMs.
MENTAL usually a Psych Lim. See notes below.
Addiction Possible Psych and Phys Lim
Berserk Berserk/Enraged
Dyslexia Phys Lim
Illiterate Phys Lim
Split Personality Phys Lim, as well as possible Accidental Change
Unluckiness 1d6 Unluck
Weak Will Lower the character's EGO
DEPENDENTS DNPC
DUTIES usually a Watched
ENEMIES Hunted
QUIRKS May be a DF or a minor Psych Lim. Some GMs allow
1 point Quirks for Hero as well (I do)
PART IV: Super Advantages, Powers and Super Skills
Get a copy of GURPS Supers and read the power description. There are far
to many powers and skills and so one to even try and define them all in
Hero terms. Such a project is feasible, but far beyond the intended scope
of this posting. Needless to say, most if not all questions such as power
level, damage amounts and such will often be determined by the GM's
preferences as well as information gained via translation. For example,
the author of this post tended to keep to a standard 60 Active Points for
powers when adapting the Wild Cards characters. The numbers tended to
work out alright and provide a nice consistent base for others to modify
from.
PART V: Super Disadvantages:
GURPS HERO
Dependency Dependence (or, possibly a Phys Lim)
Uncontrolled Change Accidental Change
Vulnerability Vulnerability
Weakness Susceptablity
PART VI: Skills
Skills tend to be pretty straight forward. Most skills have Hero
counterparts. Note that GURPS skills often have numbers that far exceed
the typical 3-18 range that Hero uses. A rough listing of easy to
translate skills is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Acrobatics Acrobatics, Breakfall
Acting Acting. Mimicry
Administration Bureaucratics
Animal Handler Animal Handling
Armory Weaponsmith
Bard Oratory
Climbing Climbing
Criminology Deduction
Demolitions Demolitions
Diplomacy Conversation
Disguise Disguise
Escape Contortionist
Fast Talk Bribery, Persuasion
First Aid Paramedic
Hobby Skill Knowledge Skill
Hold Out Concealment
Intelligence Analysis Criminology
Forgery Forgery
Gambling Gambling
Interrogation Interrogation
Lip Reading Lipreading
Lockpicking Lockpicking
Mechanic Mechanics
Merchant Trading
Navigation Navigation
Pick Pockets Sleight of Hand
Professional Skill Professional Skill
Riding Riding
Savoir-Faire High Society
Science Skills Science Skills
Sex Appeal Seduction
Shadowing Shadowing
Sleight of Hand Sleight of Hand
Strategy Tactics
Stealth Stealth
Streetwise Streetwise
Surgery Forensic Medicine
Swimming Swimming
Tactics Tactics
Traps Security Systems
Vehicle Skills Transport Familiarity
Ventriloquism Ventriloquism
Weapons Skills Weapon Familiarity
Martial Arts:
GURPS HERO
Brawling Dirty Infighting, or HTH CSL (either 3 point or 5
point levels
Fencing Fencing or Kenjutsu - any martial arts that relies
mainly upon use of a sword
Judo Akido, Judo, Wrestling - any martial arts that
concentrates upon throws and holds
Karate Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do - any martial arts
that concentrates upon punching and kicking
Note: some characters may have more than one martial skill. Moonchild
(from GURPS Wild Cards) had both Judo and Karate. The game description
mentioned her using Akido, but her nationality was Korean. I remembered
her using Tae Kwon Do maneuvers in one of the books and gave her those
packages. Other characters should get martial arts based upon origin and
character description.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:24:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with all sorts
> >of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for because
> >it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> uh-huh? and this is bad why?
Because it's generally considered appropriate to role-play your character
the way he or she was defined. If you want to play a character who's
weak-willed and/or easily frightened, buy the stats to represent that. If
you want certain powers and skills, buy them.
> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
I don't see how that relates at all.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:42:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
cc: champ-l@omg.org, catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net,
deejay@cu-online.com, greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
> Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves: Targetting Sense because he can sense
> the play of gravity waves (when he contemplates killing Fortunato when the
> pimp reports the death of Hiram's friend at the hands of the Alchemist he
> does this).
Unless he's actually done something useful with this ability (preferrably
more than once), I'd say it's purely an SFX thing.
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:55:03 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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At 12:51 AM 6/22/97 PST, Daemon Devillore wrote:
>I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
>multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
>on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
hit the poor defenseless hex.
Joe
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:27:58 (-0600)
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> >> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
> >
> > That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
> >lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
> >singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
> >what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
> >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> >
>
> uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> and as for supes. . . .
Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
playing their charcters as if they were morons. If I have a character who is
defined as being cooler than the Fonze, whould I be comended for hacing the
character jump and go "Yipe!" everytime some punk gets in his face? Is that
roleplaying to you? If you reward players for playing characters stats lower
than they are, you would love my current group where I have told Charcters
what to do next and they still didn't have a clue as to what they needed to
do. Please, if you want to play an idiot, don't give him an 18 INT.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:11:09 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
To: why@mars.superlink.net
Subject: Re: ego power
Uhh... 6d6 Ego Attack is 60 active by itself, and AE:line increases that
to 120. 5d6 EB, AE:line, based on ECV would be 75. With "no range", it's
50 real...
Donald
From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Re: ego power
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:54:04 -0400
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> It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
>
> 6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
> That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
> the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
> hit the poor defenseless hex.
>
> Joe
>
uhm, I believe that ego attack is 10 per die.. thus, it would be 120 active.... not
60.
Sean
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:31:45 -0500
Subject: #HEROCHAT on DALNET
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Okay Gang,
Here is your chance to discuss The Hero System Champions game in real
time with other players from around the country (around THE WORLD even
-- hopefully). Just get on your favorite IRC program and hop over to
#HEROCHAT on DALNET.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, grab yourself a copy of mIRC
(available on the web at WWW.MIRC.CO.UK) and choose ANY DALNET server
(you'll understand that part once you get MIRC up and running) and come
join us!!
Currently, the ops of #HEROCHAT include:
Matthew "CHESSMAN" Mactyre
Shelley "WILD_GOOSE" Chrystal Mactyre
Robert "GOTHYK" Jacobs
Mathieu "DREAMWLD" Roy
Come join us!!! Matt and Shell are on around 6-9pm PST and I'm around
too much for my own good...see you there!!
Rob "GOTHYK"
"Keeper of the Lists"
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:34:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Seeing as the list is so quiet, I'll offer up a scenario idea... (in
exchange for asking a question on how to do a part of it)
First a little background:
Here in Minneapolis we just had 'OzzFest' - an all day concert with 14
heavy metal bands, including Marilyn Manson. The concert was originally
supposed to be in Somerset Wisconsin (about 1/2 hour away) but a group
of 'concerned christians' got together and started a petition to stop
them from having the concert there if Marilyn was going to play. When
the concert was moved to Minneapolis, a similar christian group tried to
do the same thing here (they were unsuccessful - it's a little tougher
to do this in a city than in a small town).
For those of you unfamiliar with Marilyn Manson - his image is pretty
heavy with satanism undertones. (his tshirts all tout slogans like 'tell
me you love Satan' and 'Dont trust God - the Lord is a shepard') He
looks alot like Edward Scissorhands crossed with the transvestite from
Rocky Horror. He does things on stage like pretending to cut himself
(and despite what the media says, its fake blood - I watched close
tonite), rips up bibles, gets the crowd to chant things like 'We hate
love, we love hate', etc... he REALLY plays up the whole image and
drives the crowd into a real frenzy in the process. Drives the
christian groups (and the media) completely nuts.
disclaimer #1: I'm not a Marilyn Manson fan, I actually went to the
concerts for a couple of the OTHER bands... like Type O Negative! ;)
Anyway, now that I've set the stage, here's the scenario:
(Disclaimer #2 - if this seems to be a bit... disjointed, keep in mind
that I'm writing this after about 8 hours of listening to heavy metal
bands.. and my ears are still ringing)
Marilyn Manson (change the name if you want - I'm leaving it alone
because I know it will push some buttons in my group ;) is coming to
town to do a concert. Your campaign city has one of those groups that
EVERY city has - usually called something like 'Citizens for Decency' or
'Minneapolis Christian Coalition'. This group has made alot of noise
about not wanting this concert to take place.
Nobody is sure WHAT Marilyn Manson's real story is. His following just
gets stronger and stronger. After going to his concerts, his fans can't
wait to run out and buy just about anything with his name on it. The
more outragous he gets, the more the fans love him. Their devotion
borders on fanatacism.
The PCs are asked to go undercover at the concert and see just what is
going on.
What nobody knows: Marilyn's music is his expression of his
superpowers. His early songs work a large area effect ego drain. His
'speeches' in between songs are him using his high Oratory to inspire
the now low-ego fans. His final song is a large area effect mind
control that makes the crowd fanatically loyal to him (at the level to
make them think it is their own idea - not so tough to do to the
currently ego 0 fans).
The fun part: after the final song, when the christian group's own team
of supers breaks in to put a stop to this evil, a good share of the PCs
should already be under the mind control, and be ready to jump to
Marilyn's defense!
The best way to do this: know in advance which PCs have power defense,
how much ego is drained before the final song, what each PCs adjusted
ego (and ego roll) now is. Pre-Roll the mind control for the final
song, ask each PC to make a 3d6 roll (but dont tell them what it is
for). Seperate the PCs into 2 groups: those who are controlled, and
those that arent. Describe the scene of the christian supergroup
busting in to each group the way that they would see it: the controlled
group would see a group of murderous supers busting in and trying to
murder the innocent musician. The PCs who AREN'T controlled see things
as they actually are.. and won't understand why their friends are
fighting AGAINST them! Should provide for some good roleplaying, and a
chance for some of the PCs to go toe to toe with each other (and we all
know they are always looking for a chance to do THAT!)
Eventually the group of controlled PCs should grow smaller and smaller
(either as they are defeated, or as they break the mind-control. Maybe
give them another ego roll to break if a team mate actively tries to
convince them that they are being controlled?)
I'm going to use the above scenario to introduce another Supers group to
the campaign - a team that is considered 'one of the goodguys', but will
not always be working towards the same goals as the PCs are (and will
sometimes have conflicting goals). The above scenario will give them a
built in rivalry..
Okay, I shared the scenario... now the questions:
1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
can do the characters...
Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea?
Todd
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:25:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> > >It was even worse with games
> > >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> > >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> > >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> > >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> > >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> > >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> > >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> > uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> > commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > and as for supes. . . .
>
> Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
> idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
> Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
> players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
> playing their charcters as if they were morons.
(and so on....)
It seems to me that there may be a misinterpretation by some people
between character concept, roleplaying, and character sheets. Allow me
to rant and ramble....
The original complaint had to do with players not playing their
characters' conceptions properly. I have to agree that that is a valid
complaint;
1)Powers and skills not 'paid for' are powers and skills that the
character does not have. Roleplaying cannot make a character understand
how to rebuild a car's engine if (s)he has no mechanics skill; even if
the PLAYER can.
2)Powers and skills that ARE paid for do not simply 'disappear' for
the sake of a humourous reaction or 'take'. If a character has a 25
PRE, (s)he's not going to be frightened or cowed by a thing jumping out
from a bush.
How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
an idiot.
Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
to all three.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:51:54 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Todd Hanson sez;
<Scenario Presented>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
Invisible Power Effects is precisely what would be appropriate in
this situation, and you'd probably want to include invisible to mental
as well (+1; invisible to all senses)
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
has;
Mother Superior
Father Secola
Cardinal Biggles
Cardinal Fang
and Caspar the Holy Ghost
Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
have a specific theme for their powers;
Mother Superior; Moses-style abilities (calling down plagues, nasty
weather against the enemy....)
Cardinal Biggles; A Charismatic preacher w/healing, mind control, and
an aid to give additional powers to the 'converted'.
Cardinal Fang; A Brick (The 'Righteous Fist of God)
Caspar; A multiform of the 'Father'(Aids and Drains), the 'Son'(ability
to do small 'miracles'), and the holy ghost(Desol and the ability to
possess people - at least those who are already righteous....)
Father Secola; Simply transportation (Huge amounts of Teleportation
useable on the whole team.)
--
Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:59:13 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
somewhat in relation to its concept;
When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
take over the character until the player can break the control?
I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
mind-controlled characters?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:35:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
give the character darkforce powers.
It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
and passages if there is interest.
TokyoMark
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:52:10 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Todd Hanson wrote
<edited>
>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
maybe throw in a small "Mental Suggestion"..... like you feel nothing
unusual or ignore what is happening to you
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
some name ideas:
Revelation
Shepard
Holy Trinity
Holy Ghost
Apostle
Angel
Jericho
Cain
Crucifix
Dove
Retribution
Brimstone
Adam
Eve
Disciple (spelling?)
Father...
Sister...
Brother...
Devotion
Vengence (is Mine, sayeth the Lord)
Convert
David
Goliath
Judas
Revival
Miracle
Cleric
Monk
Paladin
Preacher
> Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
> a scenario idea?
Hmmmmm scenario idea?........ OK How about a group of 20 something
Superpowered friends..... they aren't really Badguys but the aren't
really Heroes either. In fact they behave a lot like C.L.O.W.N..... but
are more interested in having fun than anything else.
Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
of the local Superteam?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 05:01:09 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
>
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
>
> TokyoMark
I remember that issue..... if you do find it... I at least would love
to see the list...... if for nothing else than to learn the passages
again..... I always thought that was a neat concept.... but never
bothered to look up the actual quotes.
In the same vein.... Anybody out there of a faith other than Christian
that could contribute names or concepts?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 11:41:15 GMT
Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
>Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
>of the local Superteam?
Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
men from the sins of the flesh.....
Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
Papal visit.....
Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
very four colour this!)....
One approach might be that used in the Squadron Supreme maxi-series
(yeah, yeah, JLA ripped off by Marvel, but the story was _good_)
where the superheroes take control of government and then use
a mind altering process to force villains etc to be "good" citizens.
This addresses the whole mind rape issue that ripped across the
list some time ago. A scenario based around this had my old group
split in some very odd ways, but it did encourage in-character
debate.
Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
will of God is carried out properly!
There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
control...) and what their agenda is.
>Jerry aka
>Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Stephen McGinness
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 97-06-23 07:15:14 EDT, badtodd@dacmail.net (Todd Hanson)
writes:
<< Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea? >>
The final episode of Macross Plus used a similar situation. You might want
to take a look at that for another view. This one had to do with a computer
AI being the performer.
Jason
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:47:23 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
S McGinness wrote:
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
>
> Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
> of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
> and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
> explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
> very four colour this!)....
> There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
> group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
> religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
> determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
> control...) and what their agenda is.
There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
caught in the middle.
Make for a lot of soul-searching, I'd think.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:19:20 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Capt. Spith wrote:
>
> The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
> somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
> player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
> take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
> has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
> excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
> are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
> How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
> mind-controlled characters?
I generally explain to the PC (usually privately) what is going on, and
trust them to roleplay it (with an occasional prodding from me if
necessary). I think I could probably trust 4 out of my 5 players to
roleplay their character being mind controlled (and probably love the
hell out of it at the same time) ;)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:22 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:27:16 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 01:34 AM 6/23/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote:
(Background and Scenrio snipped)
>
>1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
>their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
>take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
IPE takes care of this as far as I know, however do not let the PLAYER
know that he has been Ego Drained either, just make the necessary
adjustemnts when
you have to.
>2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
>use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
>fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
>can do the characters...
Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League with
the Devil"... sorry...
>Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
>a scenario idea?
It's a neat idea, but I can't see any way to work it based on real-life
Fundamentalist Christian Groups....
limit? The rulebook said that a good guideline for a -1 limit
was something that reduces the power's usefulness in half. It
seems to me if you give up the DCV bonus, the vs perception roll
bonus, and the size reduction, you're giving up at least half
of the power's usefulness. At only -1/2, 6 levels of density reduction
(decreasing your weight to 1/(8^6)th, nearly as light as air) costs
60 * (1 / (1 + 1/2)) = 40 CP. If you want this to cost no END,
that brings the cost to 60 CP! This is increadibly costly, especially
since you have to buy any useful side effects like gliding seperately
(except for the increased leaping you get by being lighter). Also,
you get one heck of a knockback penalty (an old lady could accidently
jostle "Suprisingly Light Man" and send him into orbit!). Although,
I guess you could bring the cost down with a power framework.
-Eric
From ???@??? Wed Jun 18 18:51:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:53:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Power Question - Reply
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>Okay, here's another Wildcards power question.
>
>Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he
>carves or creates out of folded paper. Thus he can whittle a block of
>soap into a mouse, or create an orgami tiger, possess the creation and
>*persto* instant full size mouse or tiger. The largest thing he's createe
>has been an oriental dragon (one 20' long, the other 40' long). He fall
>unconcious while the creation is active, and if the creature is killed, he
>returns to his own body.
>
>So...
>
>This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the Duplicates
>is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active. Also, the Duplicate can be
>damn near anything. Would people feel that giving the duplicate a
> massive cosmic power pool (Only to simulate animal powers) abusive?
> And what sort of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how
> would one handle the 'snap back to original body part'?
>
>Or is this a really wierd form of summon?
>
I like the duplication path. The idea of a variable power pool for the
duplicate works for me.
There is a character called 'Mr. Nobody' in the Allies supplement. This
would be a good template for the duplicate. Mr. Nobody can
shapechange into any animal (if he makes his skill roll). He has
shapeshift, 0 end, persistant [to become the animal]. A 100 point power
pool, control cost reduced by skill roll, extra time full phase, appropriate
animal powers only (-1/2) [to get the animal's abilities]. He also had a 60
pt Multipower with 6lv Growth and 6 lv shrinking in ultra slots [to adjust
his size]. He also had an AID vs multiple characteristics, only for
appropriate animal stats (-1/2) fades 5/day (i think?). [To adjust his
statistics. You could simply buy stats from the power pool.]
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:20:51 -0700
From: Mike Sprague <sprague@VivaNET.com>
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Subject: Re: b-b-b-b-b-b-boom......
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TRandom@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are autofire area effect attacks handled normally, or are there
> (should there be) some way of preventing jello-boy in the target
> hex from being automatically liquified?
I think they are handled normally (nasty if it's a big attack).
Hmmm, I wonder if you might get a bonus on Diving for Cover vs. Autofire
AE.
Or maybe one could say that you take one shot for every point you miss
the Dive for Cover Roll by. That is, if you miss it by 1, you take one
shot. You miss it by two, you take two ... and so on.
Note that the BBB (page 92) says that if the attack doesn't require an
attack roll (and since your only attacking a hex rather than a
character, I would think this would apply), then the Autofire Advantage
is +1. Thus, this attack would have a +2 Advantage, and be rather
expensive, if it were to be useful.
~ Mike
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:27 1997
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From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: Organi[zs]ation? Boy, do you have the wron
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:19:14 -0500
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> Eric says:
>
> >Unfortunately, your email seems a bit garbled. Some of
> >the words in it ar replaced with <BD> or <BE>.
>
> The copy that came back to me looked okay. Did anyone else have this
> problem?
This is somewhat off-topic, but hey--you asked.
You have MIME Quoted-Printable encoding enabled in your mailer.
Quoted-Printable encoding would use =BD to represent 1/2 (½), and =BE
for 3/4 (_).
If anyone wonders just *why* they'd do it that way, you can e-mail me (or
any of the other computer people on the Hero List)--it's not on-topic for
the list.
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. ***
"Were you always this stupid--or did you take lessons?"
"I took lessons!" --_The Long Kiss Goodnight_
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:38 1997
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:12:56 -0400
Subject: Urban Folklore
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Concerning the Urban Folklore thread, I tried to access the alt.folkloe.urban
group and got the following error:
*News Error!
*News host responded: You're not allowed to read alt.folklor.urban, sorry.
Sounds kinda sinister to me. I think the group is covering it's tracks.
The truth is out there. Trust. Know. One.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:49 1997
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From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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TRandom@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are autofire area effect attacks handled normally, or are there (should there
> be) some way of preventing jello-boy in the target hex from being
> automatically liquified?
According to the write-up in the BBB, (page 147-148) Area affect
attacks are targeted at a hex (DCV 3) with normal modifiers. If an
attack roll misses, the center of the area affect misses by 1" for every
'1' the roll is missed by. Thus, with an autofire AOE, since one hit is
counted for every '2' the roll is made by, then apply all attacks
applicable directly to the target, then those 'hits' which miss the
target will leave a trail of AOE's every 2" in the direction missed.
>EXAMPLE<
A 5-shot AOE flame-ball is fired at Lemmingman. After modifiers and
such are figured, the attack hits the hex by 5 (<14 to hit, rolled a
9). So flame-balls hit the target hex for 9, 11, and 13. But there
were two more shots fired, so a 'missed' direction is rolled.
(Rattlerattle-clickitakatikikatik) and the add'l shots miss to the front
of the target, so the next 'hit' number (15) puts the next AOE center at
1" in front of the target, the next (17) at 3" in front of Lemmingman.
Oops, this puts the last shot too close and Flameboy singes himself with
his own attack. Although, every attack will probably have overlapped
Lemmingman's hex anyway, so he still takes full autofire damage.
And I do agree that an AOE counts as a non-standard attack roll, so
Autofire costs a +1 advantage more.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:52 1997
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Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
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> Reincarnation - everytime the character dies he comes back,
> but somehow different. This could either be like The Doctor,
> who sort of reincarnates in place, or the character's life
> essense could fuse with someone else's somewhere in the
> world (the hero group would get a phone call a week or so
> after the character's death from some guy in Belgium, claiming
> to be the killed hero). I like the latter idea better because
> it is more interesting. The character would lose all the
> knowledge that his previous host had, but gain all the knowledge
> that the new host has. He would also keep a certain amount of core
> knowledge and abilities (including some powers).
>
> I know a variable power pool would probably figure in to the
> changinge characteristics, perks, and skills, but how does
> one simulate the fact that the character does not die? And
> also that the character not only is transported to some other
> spot on the earth (telepotation with huge range and a bunch
> of limits?) but literally becomes someone else (shapechange?).
> Would all that STUN and BODY damage that the character suffered have
> to be healed with a linked aid power? Or whould that be handled by
> special effects?
This one is covered by the Spirit Rules in Hero Almanac #1. Spirits
can have instantaneous transportation, possession, mind swapping,
and other, similar powers. Unfortunately, the rules are to long to
repost here.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:58 1997
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Subject: Re: Nonstandard settings = Dark Wheel Galaxy
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>
> > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> >
> > Can you tell us more about this ?
> >
> > Curt Hicks
>
> I have a campaign setting that I haven't used yet, but intend to
> eventually. I call it, "The Unredeemed". It is set in what appears
> to the average man to be the real world, but all of the characters
> know that something is very, very, wrong.
>
> The characters are people who have all had bad lives, or who have
> been outright evil. Then one day, they encounter the _real_ evil,
> and are desperate to stop it.
>
> Characters might include a heroin-addicted housewife turned hooker
> for fun, who was dragged into a sex-death black magic cult; a
> businessman who unknowingly used his mind control powers to
> manipulate and destroy people, who one day has dinner at his boss's
> house where he is offered mentoring in the _real_ uses of such
> power; and a Mob hit man who is haunted by buried memories of
> Something he saw in Viet Nam, something much worse than napalming
> children, something that makes him want to kill every man he sees,
> in case one of Those is riding him.
>
> The idea is that magic is on the rise again after thousands of
> years, but that due to careful planning and unsuspected hidden power
> sources, evil is ready while good is not. The most powerful good
> person has been forced to call together these people, offering them
> the chance to buy back their souls.
>
> Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
>
> When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> diplomats.
>
> With flintlocks.
>
> The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
>
> In my campaign, the devices turned out to be psionic-based, and
> almost no human could use them. A few could under the influence of
> various drugs that were becoming popular among the neo-hippies of
> the early 21st Century. As a result, a wide variety of extremely odd
> and radical groups became the first humans to colonize the stars.
> Shortly afterwards, the devices were redesigned for non-psionic use,
> and everyone else set out to try to find their own personal planet.
> This happened four hundred years ago.
>
> This allows you to meet anything from spaceships with cannons that
> belong on a galleon, to worlds dominated by every weird religion,
> political system, or lifestyle you can imagine. Additionally, as
> mankind moves out into the galaxy, he is beginning to discover that
> he isn't quite number one in the technological, power, or
> destructiveness circles.
>
> Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:02 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Stupid Shrinking Tricks (was RE: Stupid Mind Tricks)
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> Combat Shrinking
<snip>
>
> For hand-to-hand combat, the GM has the option to ignore Shrinking
> DCV bonuses completely, regardless of the size of the combatants.
> Small characters are still hard to hit, but when the attacker's hand
> is bigger than the entire shrinker's body, it can become the
> equivalent of an area effect attack, and cancel out the Shrinker's
> DCV.
This was built into the original shrinking, and I'm sorry they ever
got rid of it. Growth only made you easier to hit at range, by
decreasing range mods, and shrinking only made you harder to hit by
decreasing range mods.
I liked this, because the present rules really don't make a lot of
sense. Consider a man only six inches tall. He runs up to you
(slowly), and tries to punch you in the foot. However, if you move
your foot 3 inches, you are suddenly out of reach.
On the other hand, if you lift your foot out of his reach, then he's
going to have trouble getting out of the way when you stomp.
Characters with Growth should only have difficulty dodging hand to
hand attacks if they move slowly compared to normal man. A fifty foot
tall man can dodge a smaller man forever, simply by lifting whatever
foot he is near.
However, there is one possible justification for the high
Shrinking DCV, but it would make you hard to hit no matter what
size your opponent is. Since shrunk characters in the BBB don't have
slower running (or other movement), their increased DCV makes some
sense. Imagine trying to swat a bug that can move 6"/phs. It takes him
only a fraction of a second to move a few inches, whereupon your fist
misses. This is why flies are so hard to hit, so long as they can
move. However, if this increased mobility compared to body size is the
reason shrunk characters are hard to hit, then it applies no matter
who they fight with, regardless of size.
<snip>
> Travel Through Phone Lines
>
> Some characters can get small enough to travel through the phones
> lines.
<snip>
> Traveling at the speed of sound will still take a few seconds for a
> long-distance call. Nowadays, many phone lines are fiber optic, and
> don't transmit at the speed of sound, but the speed of light.
Uh, phone transmissions under normal circumstances travel at the speed
of electricity, not sound. If they traveled at the speed of sound
(roughly 745mph), it would take an hour for someone 745 miles away to
hear you. Even calling someone a mile away would create an added delay
of several seconds between a question and a reply.
The speed of electricity, under ideal conductivity, is the speed of
light. Through copper wiring, it is still about 1/4 the speed of
light, an insignificant difference at planetary distances on a
segments/phases/turns time scale.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:04 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@gr.cc.wa.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Nonstandard settings = Dark Wheel Galaxy
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>
> > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> >
> > Can you tell us more about this ?
> >
> > Curt Hicks
>
> I have a campaign setting that I haven't used yet, but intend to
> eventually. I call it, "The Unredeemed". It is set in what appears
> to the average man to be the real world, but all of the characters
> know that something is very, very, wrong.
>
> The characters are people who have all had bad lives, or who have
> been outright evil. Then one day, they encounter the _real_ evil,
> and are desperate to stop it.
>
> Characters might include a heroin-addicted housewife turned hooker
> for fun, who was dragged into a sex-death black magic cult; a
> businessman who unknowingly used his mind control powers to
> manipulate and destroy people, who one day has dinner at his boss's
> house where he is offered mentoring in the _real_ uses of such
> power; and a Mob hit man who is haunted by buried memories of
> Something he saw in Viet Nam, something much worse than napalming
> children, something that makes him want to kill every man he sees,
> in case one of Those is riding him.
>
> The idea is that magic is on the rise again after thousands of
> years, but that due to careful planning and unsuspected hidden power
> sources, evil is ready while good is not. The most powerful good
> person has been forced to call together these people, offering them
> the chance to buy back their souls.
>
> Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
>
> When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> diplomats.
>
> With flintlocks.
>
> The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
>
> In my campaign, the devices turned out to be psionic-based, and
> almost no human could use them. A few could under the influence of
> various drugs that were becoming popular among the neo-hippies of
> the early 21st Century. As a result, a wide variety of extremely odd
> and radical groups became the first humans to colonize the stars.
> Shortly afterwards, the devices were redesigned for non-psionic use,
> and everyone else set out to try to find their own personal planet.
> This happened four hundred years ago.
>
> This allows you to meet anything from spaceships with cannons that
> belong on a galleon, to worlds dominated by every weird religion,
> political system, or lifestyle you can imagine. Additionally, as
> mankind moves out into the galaxy, he is beginning to discover that
> he isn't quite number one in the technological, power, or
> destructiveness circles.
>
> Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:10 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: stupid shrinking tricks
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> But if I really wanted to get picky, an electron from one phone
> isn't the one that travels all the way to the other phone. The real
> world is so unforgiving ;(
In a world where the simple rules of balance (which make it
impossible to grab the trunk of a car and lift it, no matter what
your strength, unless you are much heavier than the car) don't even
apply, you are going to get picky about particle physics?
Filksinger
"No Silicon Heaven? Then where do all the calculators go when they die?"
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:11 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
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> > looking for a bit of advice..
> >
> > How do other GMs handle a character who has code vs killing.. and
> > kills?
> >
> > Let me point out up front - this hasn't happened.. YET. But I'm
> > expecting it to.
>
> If you don't mind that he doesn't have a Code vs. Killing, let him
> buy it off. Point out that you are the arbiter of what his
> disadvantage means, and that if he won't follow it, he has to pay to
> remove it. After all, "reluctance to kill" is a standard no-point
> Disadvantage for 4-color comics, so if his character is merely
> reluctant to kill, he gets no points.
>
> However, if you want him to stop behaving like that, and live up to
> the disadvantage (as you apparently originally intended), there are
> a few possibilities. Keep in mind that these can backfire, so if it
> starts to cause problems, just insist that he buy it off and leave
> it at that.
>
> I would suggest that you start by privately talking to the other
> players. Point out that, according to official sources, characters
> with 20pt. Code vs Killing will _not_ tolerate killing under any
> circumstances. Point out that their _characters_, at the very least,
> are extremely disturbed by this sort of behavior, and ask that they
> play that in character.
>
> Second, let NPCs start disapproving of the character's behavior. If
> a relationship begins to form with an NPC, let it be damaged or
> ruined when the NPC sees how "trigger happy" he is. Let other heroes
> who see this behavior start to shun him, and by association, the
> rest of the group. If they are part of an official group, sanction
> him.
>
> Next step, give him some publicity. Let his quirk be broadcast by
> Gyro Jim live during a battle. Let the public start showing
> disapproval for him. Have children ask him why he wants to kill
> people.
>
> If this doesn't work, then try the Guilt Complex. This was a
> powerful supervillian group written up in an early Adventurer's
> Club, intended to deal with powergamers, but it can be adapted to
> this purpose. The Guilt Complex was a group of supers who were more
> than a match for police because of their attack powers and high DCV,
> but not the heroes. They could be a little hard to hit at first, and
> give the heroes some trouble to begin with. If the heroes unleashed
> their full might upon them, however, they fell over dead.
>
> Variations include a Viper plot wherein an innocent man is put in
> remote controlled power armor and sent to attack the heroes, or a
> villian is created who humiliates a hero, then a normal is forced to
> play his part in a heist, with the problem character mad enough to
> shoot him dead. Giving a villian a really good motivation to commit
> crime (mother needs $50,000 for operation, etc.) and DNPCs (said
> dying mother works well) who will make the hero feel really bad is
> also a good one.
>
> Basically, though, I don't think there is a solution that will
> change the character's behavior. The player wants to play a hero who
> will kill at times, and will do so no matter what you do. I
> recommend that you either allow him to play that character, perhaps
> after a very minor round of the above to let him know there are
> disadvantages to this behavior in a 4-color campaign, or, if the
> character is unacceptable for the campaign either change or replace
> the campaign, or replace him. That is what I had to do the last time
> I had a player like that, though mine was a much worse case.
>
> Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:13 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@gr.cc.wa.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: RE: Champions: New Millenium
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> To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM
> and see what Champions fans thought of it, but I haven't even seen
> it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad?
No, it isn't bad. In fact, I am considering using it for everything
_except_ my superhero games.
I particularly liked the part where every point of characteristic
counts. If a normal man buys one point of Strength, for instance, he
is actually stronger than a man who didn't, and it impacts the game.
Further, a having a high dexterity or a high skill influences the
odds considerably more than under the Hero System.
Under the old Hero System, a man who had maximum human dexterity was
only +2 at performing DEX-based skills, which isn't much of a
difference. Under the Fuzion system, a character who is very very good
(say 7 for both skill and characteristic) is incapable of failing at
a task that is seriously challenging to your average beginner( say 2
for both skill and characteristic).
It is often stomped for three main reasons. One, the complexity of
the Hero System power design long ago drove off most GMs who don't
like the extreme precision with which you can design powers, or who
can't handle the math. Therefore, this is considered a disadvantage
to most Hero GMs, though many people will find it an advantage.
Secondly, there is, compared to Hero, a severe dearth of powers. This
is especially true when you consider that power Advantages and
Limitations have created a great many power variations that could be
treated as completely separate powers. Two obvious ones that are
often complained about are Damage Shield and Autofire, but there are
many others.
Last, but not least, the rules are very unclear in many cases. In
fact, if you picked up the rules from the 'net, as I did, it is even
worse, as example characters are a must to make sense of these rules.
Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:15 1997
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Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: Uthden Troll stats on the way honest !
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Just a quick note to all on the list that the stats for my mtg/fh conversion
of the Uthden Troll is on it's way at last !
Hopefully, there won't be any great delay in getting The Dragon Whelp posted.
Chuff78002.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:15 1997
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Subject: Transparent force walls
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 06:53:49 -0500
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net>
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-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
"A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
concentrated on.
I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
What do you think?
Thanks,
Fugazi
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:21:59 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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David Nasset, Sr. wrote:
> > Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> > mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> > The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> > natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> > anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> > powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
> >
> > When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> > marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> > diplomats.
> >
> > With flintlocks.
> >
> > The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> > within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> > so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> > Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
A small digression.....
"The Road Less Taken" by Harry Turtledove.
it is in the collection _Kaliedascope_.
One of my favorite stories in the world. The anigrav as described in the
story has no ancillary uses the way electricty does, so once it is
discovored all the science goes to perfecting that.
One of the best sequences... The aliens that were captured had just
finished talking to the humans, and nuclear weapons were mentioned.
One says to the other "one weapon that can destroy a city... i don't
believe it"
The other responds "I do, there is fear in his voice when he speaks of
it."
Returning to regular thread.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:20 1997
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Message-ID: <33A92639.52E8@apeleon.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:45 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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Subject: Re: nonstandard settings
References: <199706142001.PAA20583@b04b17.exu.ericsson.se>
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Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> Mike Sprague <sprague@VivaNET.com> wrote:
> > Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> > >
> Basically unusual genres or combinations of genres that require a bit of
> background explanation... Actually what I'm thinking about is starting another
> type of game rather than my long-running superhero game..
>
> Curt
My fantasy Hero was a genre bender. I was translational (ie people
coming from earth), but that does exist in the source literature so I'm
not exactly sure that is 'unusual' enough.
The strangest ones I have run was short lived but fun.
One was set in a near future. PC belonged to a multi-sport entertainment
circuit. It combined null grav Boxing/Pro Wrestling (one event),
autoduelling (a second event), a team game reminiscent of the thing seen
in battlestar Galactica ( the third event), and a Rollerball-esque game.
The PCs had to be able to compete in all four, but only had to be
specialized in one (they were a rollerball team, with individual
specializations). Half the adventures were doing the 'sports' (like
doing tourneys in a ninja-hero thing) and the rest were mysteries and
such. Herioc level, but on 200+ points.
Another was a group that lived on a near future frontier world, with a
culture almost identical to the old west, but your horse (in effect) was
a mecha. The PCs were a Rock band/Con artist team. The planet had
dinasour-like native life on a desert terrain.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:31 1997
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 18 Jun 97 08:37:04 GMT
Subject: babylon revisited
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Please ignore this message, if you have no interest in this subject
matter, or if you are sick to death of this subject. I simply don't need
the hate mail.
I was asked privately by a Mailing List regular to post a
description of the die rolling method used in The Babylon Project,
to further illustrate why I gave that game such a scathing review.
Though I was quite literal and direct when confronted by the game's
author, I did not not elaborate any further than simply presenting my
own opinion. The following corrects that problem.
The Babylon Project is a target-number based game system. The dice
rolled represent positive or negative modifiers that are applied to a
base which is usually gained from adding the total of a stat plus a
skill.
The actual die rolling method itself is fairly simple. One red
six-sided die and one green six sided die are rolled together to
generate a total for each task. The lowest of the two dice renders the
total. Red equaling negative, green equaling positive. With doubles
equaling zero. Except when rolling snake-eyes or boxcars. Snake-eyes
produces a zero result and a spectacular failure. Boxcars produces a
zero result and a spectacular success. But that success or failure is a
side effect, and does not effect the final outcome of that roll.
My criticisms stemmed from the fact that I percieve the die
rolling method itself as being too random. With almost equal chances of
rolling either positive, negative, or zero modifiers. Zero modifiers
have an almost 50-50 chance of producing success or failure. Negative
modifiers are almost a guarantee of failure. And any positive modifier,
at all, seems to produce success.
This die system, in accordance with a target number system that is
very tight numerically, produces the results in accordance with the
extreme amount of randomness that I described previously. Regardless of
the individual character's stat or skill level, or the combination of
the two, the chance of success or failure stays almost 50-50.
Such a basic problem places a stark limit on The Babylon Project's
playability, as a game system. And because of this problem, the GM is
forced to intervene far more often than in a game system, such as Hero,
whose die rolling system actually operates on a coherent bell curve.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X My reality check just bounced.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:34 1997
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 18 Jun 97 08:37:04 GMT
Subject: babylon revisited
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Please ignore this message, if you have no interest in this subject
matter, or if you are sick to death of this subject. I simply don't need
the hate mail.
I was asked privately by a Mailing List regular to post a
description of the die rolling method used in The Babylon Project,
to further illustrate why I gave that game such a scathing review.
Though I was quite literal and direct when confronted by the game's
author, I did not not elaborate any further than simply presenting my
own opinion. The following corrects that problem.
The Babylon Project is a target-number based game system. The dice
rolled represent positive or negative modifiers that are applied to a
base which is usually gained from adding the total of a stat plus a
skill.
The actual die rolling method itself is fairly simple. One red
six-sided die and one green six sided die are rolled together to
generate a total for each task. The lowest of the two dice renders the
total. Red equaling negative, green equaling positive. With doubles
equaling zero. Except when rolling snake-eyes or boxcars. Snake-eyes
produces a zero result and a spectacular failure. Boxcars produces a
zero result and a spectacular success. But that success or failure is a
side effect, and does not effect the final outcome of that roll.
My criticisms stemmed from the fact that I percieve the die
rolling method itself as being too random. With almost equal chances of
rolling either positive, negative, or zero modifiers. Zero modifiers
have an almost 50-50 chance of producing success or failure. Negative
modifiers are almost a guarantee of failure. And any positive modifier,
at all, seems to produce success.
This die system, in accordance with a target number system that is
very tight numerically, produces the results in accordance with the
extreme amount of randomness that I described previously. Regardless of
the individual character's stat or skill level, or the combination of
the two, the chance of success or failure stays almost 50-50.
Such a basic problem places a stark limit on The Babylon Project's
playability, as a game system. And because of this problem, the GM is
forced to intervene far more often than in a game system, such as Hero,
whose die rolling system actually operates on a coherent bell curve.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X My reality check just bounced.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:52:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Fugazi wrote:
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot
> be destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to
> that category.
Correct.
> But if it works like an entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if
> the attacker specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is
> hit its going down.
It doesn't work like an Entangle. The description of the "transparent
Entangle" advantage says that it can still be damaged by an attack
directed at the Entangle itself; the "transparent Force Wall" advantage
makes no such allowance.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:42 1997
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Subject: Extended Characters & Garbled Emails
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 11:06:51 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
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On 6/18/97 3:45 PM, Dave Mattingly (DaveM@FocusSoft.com) Said:
>>Unfortunately, your email seems a bit garbled. Some of
>>the words in it ar replaced with <BD> or <BE>.
>
>The copy that came back to me looked okay. Did anyone else have this
>problem?
If you use any extended characters for fractions or other symbols, as it
appears that you did (which is usually a very good practice, from a
readability standpoint), people who read the email on a platform that
uses a different extended character set, will not get the same
characters.
Since Unix, Windows (3.x, 95, NT), and Macintosh systems all use
different character sets for those characters in the 128-255 range of the
ASCII chart, you should not use them for email, or HTML documents. Use
the regular 1/2, 3/4, etc. despite the fact that it is less readable.
.oooO |
( ) Oooo. | David A. Fair
\ ( ( ) | SDS International
\_) ) / | dfair@sdslink.com
(_/ |
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:44 1997
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From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
>
> What do you think?
I think you're being unnecessarily literal. Transparant Force Wall does not
equal Transparant Entangle. Two entirely different mechanics. Physical
Attacks pass entirely through PD Transparant Force Walls without bringing
down the wall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, seeing as how this is a particle projection weapon pushing electrons
and charged protons across a 400 gigawatt laser path, it may be a little
difficult for you magic to absorb the nuclear feedback. So the question you
gotta ask yourself isn't 'Do I feel lucky?'... 'cause I know you don't! The
question IS 'Any last words?'"
"Yup. BYE!" <pop>
-Gold Digger
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:45 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Density Reduction
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:07:50 -0400
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Eric said:
>shrinking with a no size reduction limitation
>but only a -1/2 limit?
I had thought about a -1, but when used by someone with great mass, it
can be quite useful. Especially on a character with Growth or Density
Increase, the ability to walk normally across a floor can be quite
useful. I set the cost at -1/2 because I wanted to prevent abuse.
>I guess you could bring the cost down with a power framework.
Yes, if you look at the sample characters in my article, the density
controller, Inertia, uses this power in a multipower.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/1905/pwrpnt.html
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:46 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Extended Characters & Garbled Emails
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:06:06 -0400
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>If you use any extended characters for fractions or other symbols, as
it
>appears that you did (which is usually a very good practice, from a
>readability standpoint), people who read the email on a platform that
>uses a different extended character set, will not get the same
>characters.
Actually, I didn't do it on purpose, I just cut-and-pasted from my web
page. That must be why I've never run into this before. I generally type
rather than copy my messages.
Thanks for the info, everyone!
Dave Mattingly
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:47 1997
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You may have noticed that I posted an awful lot of emails lately, and
that most of them seem to be copies of other notes. I have just
discovered that my email software has been sending most of my notes
to the originator, and not to the list. I sent them on again, but
forgot to correct the "quoted text" phenomenon until I was half way
through.
I will be separating all of these notes from my other email to
prevent further problems. To all concerned, while my original email
address was filksinger@usa.net, my new address will shortly be
filkhero@usa.net. All email sent to the old address will still be
received by me, however.
Sorry for the off topic post.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:48 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:06:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
Priority: normal
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> DOCTOR MAXIM TRAVNICEK
>
> Designers Notes:
> Travnicek is tall (6'2") and thin (165 lbs), with graying blond hair
> and thick glasses. He is ill tempered and a misanthrope, who really
> can't stand most people. His wild card power has turned him into a
> brilliant cyberneticist capable of building amazing inventions (see
> Modular Man). Unfortunately, his creative process seems geared to
> creating one-of-a-kind devices and he has yet to produce the Modular
> Man series of robots like he originally planned.
Actually, he isn't brilliant at all. According to one of the books,
investigation into the incredible devices produced by aces shows that
they are unworkable, often constructed of completely useless
materials (for example, an electronic device made of strings and
bobby pins). Travnicek isn't brilliant, he powers Modular Man by his
own psychic ace powers. This is why he cannot create anything
else, because he is out of power. Modular Man cannot be copied,
because he couldn't work if his creator wasn't an ace.
Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
includes the mental power to keep himself running.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:50 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:26:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
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> > DOCTOR MAXIM TRAVNICEK
> >
> > Designers Notes:
> > Travnicek is tall (6'2") and thin (165 lbs), with graying blond hair
> > and thick glasses. He is ill tempered and a misanthrope, who really
> > can't stand most people. His wild card power has turned him into a
> > brilliant cyberneticist capable of building amazing inventions (see
> > Modular Man). Unfortunately, his creative process seems geared to
> > creating one-of-a-kind devices and he has yet to produce the Modular
> > Man series of robots like he originally planned.
>
> Actually, he isn't brilliant at all. According to one of the books,
> investigation into the incredible devices produced by aces shows that
> they are unworkable, often constructed of completely useless
> materials (for example, an electronic device made of strings and
> bobby pins). Travnicek isn't brilliant, he powers Modular Man by his
> own psychic ace powers. This is why he cannot create anything
> else, because he is out of power. Modular Man cannot be copied,
> because he couldn't work if his creator wasn't an ace.
That is a debatable point. The GURPS Wild Cards sourcebook states that he
did develop some nice 'real world' inventions before creating Modular Man,
and that he had a number of revolutionary theories, but his bad tempered
nature kept them from getting the proper attention. Now as to Mod Man
being powered by Travnicek, that's an interesting idea, but after
Travnicek went joker, Mod Man stil worked (even if Travnicek's enchanced
intellect didn't).
> Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
> destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
> includes the mental power to keep himself running.
I'm more likely to support that theory.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:51 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Message-Id: <199706191900.PAA24406@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Wild Cards Question
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
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I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
I have one small question... what's the difference between
a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
this, but I'm curious...
-Eric
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:52 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:14:36 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
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Here is what the wild card virus does :-
Of people infected
Kills 90% horribly painfully
9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
these 1% are the aces.
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
> I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
> I have one small question... what's the difference between
> a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
> a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
> series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
> this, but I'm curious...
>
> -Eric
>
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:08:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&>
greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970619160737.17136M-100000@access1.digex.net>
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FANTASY
(Asta Lenser)
Designers Notes:
Fantasy is a ballet dancer for the American Ballet Theater. She's 5'5"
tall and weighs 110 lbs. She has the power to mesmerize men when she
dances. She works for Kien Phuc as a spy (and his occasion mistress).
he, in return, keeps her supplied with money and cocaine. Fantasy is
quite amoral and very much a hedonist.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 11 1
Dex 18 24
Con 13 6
Body 11 2
Int 14 4
Ego 13 6
Pre 10 0
Com 16 3
PD 3 1
ED 3 0
Spd 3 2
Rec 5 0
End 26 0
Stun 24 0
Char Total 49
Power Total 94
Total Cost 143
COST POWERS & SKILLS
60 Mind Control: 12d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Single Message: "You want
me" (-1/2), Radius of Effect (x4) (+1 1/2), 0 END, No Range,
Gestures (dancing) (-1/2), Extra Time (phase) (-1/4), Affects men
only (-1/2), Only affects those in line of sight (-1/2)
5 Wealth
3 Contact: Shadow Fist Society 12-
3 Conversation 12-
3 High Society 12-
3 KS: Dancing (DEX) 13-
5 KS: Shadow Fist Society 14-
5 PS: Ballet Dancer (DEX) 15-
7 Seduction 14-
Disadvantages
75 Base
15 Phys: Addicted to Cocaine
10 Psych: Bad Tempered
15 Psych: Greedy
15 Psych: Lecherousness
10 Watched: Shadowfist Society (MoPow) 11-
3 Experience
(Fantasy created by Melinda Snodgrass, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:55 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:42:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970619101335.25735A-100000@uhunix2>
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On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Richard Scott wrote:
> Here is what the wild card virus does :-
>
>
> Of people infected
>
> Kills 90% horribly painfully
Well, most die pretty horrible, some die quite quickly... Many of the
deaths seem to be from 'partial' power manifestations. Wild Cards Book I
has an excellent story by Roger Zelazny dealing with Croyd Crensen's
experiences onthe streets when the virus struck. People expolding,
burning up, melting into puddles, dissolving etc.
> 9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
Some cases the deformities are useful - see Peregrine's wings. Also, one
gets 'joker-aces' like Troll, who is 9' tall and green, but also immune to
pistols and can lift several tons.
> 1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
> these 1% are the aces.
"Useless amazing powers" are called 'dueces'.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:56 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:09:06 -0500
From: Alex Rojas <rojasa@uthscsa.edu>
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
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I thought most of the 1% that didn't die and didn't become jokers became
Dueces? They actually got a weak power (TK just strong enough to move a
penny).
Alex
From: "rscott@hawaii.edu" "Richard Scott"
>Here is what the wild card virus does :-
>
>Of people infected
>
>Kills 90% horribly painfully
>9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
>1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
>these 1% are the aces.
>
>Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
>--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
>South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
>South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
>
>On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
>
>> I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
>> I have one small question... what's the difference between
>> a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
>> a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
>> series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
>> this, but I'm curious...
>>
>> -Eric
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:57 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
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From: sd131@csufresno.edu (Keith Curtis)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
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At 5:26 PM 6/19/97, you wrote:
>> Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
>> destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
>> includes the mental power to keep himself running.
Actually, Maxim Travnicek DID die, just before the destruction of the Rox.
MM was complicit in his death, and continued to function afterward (albeit
at the loss of a leg).
Keith Curtis
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:29 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:53:18 -0400
From: The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@bconnex.net>
Organization: The Kingdom of Thunder
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Subject: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
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Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
In Short -
Two brothers - One "good", one "not so good".
A variation on the "Hawk and Dove" theme - (DC Comics)
After a misadventure, the "not so good" brother gets himself chased by
the police, and eventually shot, for stealing an ancient mask from a
museum.
He manages to reach the "good" brother, before death takes him.
In a moment of induced insanity, the good brother reacts to the waste of
life, and the "stupid mask" that indirectly caused his brother's death.
The "good" brother decides to jump from a height and kill himself . .
.he jumps . . . the end?
Not the end . . . the "good" brother wakes up, wearing the mask, in a
brightly coloured costume. Investigation leads him to discover that his
dead brother lives on, in side of him, like a disembodied spirit. In
this form, the brothers are "twice as strong, agile, enduring, etc"
They possess the skills and abilities of both brothers, and control of
the body "flip-flops" from one to the other.
In an attempt to remove the mask, the brothers find that it splits down
the middle, and in a flash, another change occurs. Each brother is now
in a single mask, one of "Comedy" and one of "Trajedy". They each have
a physical form, their own martial art skill, and their own powers: the
ability to conjure "props" (such as cream pies and Shakespearian Skulls)
and to create realistic illusions.
The two become "superheroes" the "Comedian and the Thespian", and in
times of great need, the combined power of the Harlequin. They adopt a
single secret identity, since when the mask is off, only the one body
remains.
OKAY - I guess you get the idea.
Here was the challenge, design a single character, that possesses a
range of powers, that splits into two distinct characters, each with
their own powers and limitations.
Basically, Comedian, the "good" brother, has Judo, and the above listed
powers with the limitations of "Only Comedy Props and Illusions" (Selser
bottles, banana peels, neon signs, Merry Go Rounds, etc.) The "not so
good one", Thespian, has a harsher Martial Art, and a limitation for
"dramatic" events (i.e. Bats, storm clouds, swirling capes, and organ
music). Harlequin possessed the powers of both, but each time he
"reformed" thge other brother was in charge of the body, so both were
reluctant to make the change.
My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built on
a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
(strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
(Whew!!!!)
Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
I'm anxiously awaiting answers . . .
And if I can find my original solution, I will post those stats . . .
And EZ, If you're out there, just thinking about this character again is
reminding me how cool an idea it was, and how frustrating he(they) were
to create!!!
The THUNDERBIRD
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:33:19 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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At 06:53 AM 6/19/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
>-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
>
> What do you think?
I've always assumed that if a forcewall is "Transparent" to a particular
type of attack, that type of attack will pass right through (either
direction) without affecting the ForceWall in any way...
Sort of like the FW being "desolid" to that attack.... If you want to
build a Forcewall that you can shoot through, but it will stop the same
attack from outside, buy your attack with Indirect (Starts at outside of
Forcewall)
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:46 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:25:29 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Power Question - Reply
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At 05:53 PM 6/18/97 -0500, flacksd@evron.com wrote:
>There is a character called 'Mr. Nobody' in the Allies supplement. This
>would be a good template for the duplicate. Mr. Nobody can
>shapechange into any animal (if he makes his skill roll). He has
>shapeshift, 0 end, persistant [to become the animal]. A 100 point power
>pool, control cost reduced by skill roll, extra time full phase, appropriate
>animal powers only (-1/2) [to get the animal's abilities]. He also had a 60
>pt Multipower with 6lv Growth and 6 lv shrinking in ultra slots [to adjust
>his size]. He also had an AID vs multiple characteristics, only for
>appropriate animal stats (-1/2) fades 5/day (i think?). [To adjust his
>statistics. You could simply buy stats from the power pool.]
>
>Daniel Flacks
>dflacks@evron.com
>
Geez, why didn't you post this when I started the "That (@$&;
SHapeshifter" thread :)
In case you don't remember, person in my game wanted the ability to
become any natural animal... was trying to figure out how to do it, gave it
up as too annoying... ended that campaign as a result.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:43:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:46:39 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
In-Reply-To: <199706181633.MAA20661@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
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At 12:33 PM 6/18/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Reincarnation - everytime the character dies he comes back,
>but somehow different. This could either be like The Doctor,
>who sort of reincarnates in place,
I don't know any GM who would allow this but:
Transform, Major, Dead self into new hero, 4d6, Cumulative (+1/2),
Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects(+1),
Trigger (+1/4), Always On (-1/2), 2-3 Charges (How much body do you have?
-1 1/2 - -1 1/4).
Only 75 Real points. 225 AP.
For additional point savings put in your armor (OIF: 64 CP), or an
Independent, Focus (IIF) in a Fantasy Genre (43 CP).
Persistent and Uncontrolled allows the power to work after the character is
dead. Invisible Power Effects prevents the power from being detectable.
If you don't care about someone suppressing your reincarnation, you can
save ~20 real points.
>or the character's life
>essense could fuse with someone else's somewhere in the
>world (the hero group would get a phone call a week or so
>after the character's death from some guy in Belgium, claiming
>to be the killed hero).
Okay, same as above, except it cannot be Cumulative. (Course that allows
it to be 1 Charge.) It also has to target a living being, kinda
non-heroic, ya know.
> I like the latter idea better because
>it is more interesting. The character would lose all the
>knowledge that his previous host had, but gain all the knowledge
>that the new host has. He would also keep a certain amount
>of core knowledge and abilities (including some powers).
This sounds more like the spirit rules. Check them out in Hero Almanac #1.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 22:33:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:12:38 -0400
From: Dave Thompson <ezadd@bconnex.net>
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Subject: re:THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
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THUNDERBIRD
> And EZ, If you're out there, just thinking about this character again is
> reminding me how cool an idea it was, and how frustrating he(they) were
> to create!!!
Glad to make your life hell!! *BG* I have this other idea for a
character...
EZ
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:46 1997
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
References: <1.5.4.16.19970620123502.25e706a2@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "H" == HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> writes:
H> not nescisarily- it could be a subconcious compulsion, like hypnotic
H> programming- anything not "physical", or which has an ego-type resist,
H> is "psycoloical".
Regardless of *why* the character has the disadvantage or how it affects
him, he has it, and it means that he will chose not to use lethal force.
He may not want to make that choice but he will make it. He must because
he has that disadvantage. That is why it is a disadvantage: it restricts
what he can do in certain situations.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
References: <33A9720E.399B@bconnex.net>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TT" == The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@bconnex.net> writes:
TT> Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
TT> character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
A classic use of Duplication. You might want to look a the writup of
"Gemeni" in "The Zodiac Conspiracy" book if you can find it.
Powers that may only be used while duplicated or combined is generally a
- -1/2 to -1 limitation, depending on how often (or not) they are combined.
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From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:49 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: RE: That @$& Shapeshifter
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earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us wrote (in response to my thoughts on the
Lazy Dragon Wildcard power question)
> Geez, why didn't you post this when I started the "That (@$&;
>SHapeshifter" thread :)
> In case you don't remember, person in my game wanted the ability to
>become any natural animal... was trying to figure out how to do it, gave
>it up as too annoying... ended that campaign as a result.
I just joined the list. I've only been here for a month, so I missed your
shapeshifter question. I will be posting some questions of my own soon,
most of which have probably already been answered in the past.
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:55 1997
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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At 06:53 AM 6/19/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
These are two different types of Transparent. Notice that the cost for
the two Advantages is different: Transparent Entangle, which must be
specifically targeted to be damaged, is +1/2 vs all attacks, while
Transparent Force Wall, which cannot be targeted, is +1/2 vs either energy
or physical.
And it's not totally without precedence to apply one version of
Transparent to the other Power. The most obvious use of this is in The
Ultimate Mentalist, where Mental Paralysis is created in part by making
Entangle Transparent to Energy Attacks in the Force Wall manner (also
transferring its vulnerability to Physical Attacks over to Mental Attacks).
I'm sure its been done elsewhere as well, and I might even allow such a
thing in my own campaign if the description of the Power made adequate sense.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:56 1997
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Something new to talk about...
I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
for.
The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
without turning public opinion against them?)
Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
little girl in the hospital??')
3. How would the law handle superpowered criminal kids? It's not like
you can just stick them in juvie hall.. but you can't stick them in
Stronghold EITHER...
thanks in advance for the help...
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:58 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:18:16 -0400 (EDT)
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cc: catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com,
greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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Hmmmn, well I think there are just a few changes that should be made. First,
his EB, RKA and TK should all be bought with the Indirect advantage, after
all he is manipulating gravity. Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves:
Targetting Sense because he can sense the play of gravity waves (when he
contemplates killing Fortunato when the pimp reports the death of Hiram's
friend at the hands of the Alchemist he does this). Als he should have a
several dice HA for when he makes his fist weigh several tons just before it
strikes someone (mentioned as a tactic he used during his brief career as a
costumed crime-fighter).
Carter Humphrey BeerCarboy@AOL.com
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:59 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:49:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
> Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>
> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
I think it would depend upon the powers. If I had invisibility when I was
11-14, I probably would have been severly tempted to make off with all the
gaming books, modules and minatures I could carry. Also, sneaking into
the movies, amusments parks etc.
I could imagine a kid with super strngth trying to steal his own video
game and put it in the basement. And any kid who could fly could get into
more trouble that you can possibly imagine.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:00 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:24:31 +0000
From: Michael Gillespie <mgill@mychoice.net>
Subject: 0 END vs. Uses
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I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
reduced END.
Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
in", receiving no limit for them:
Must be used at full power
Can't be spread
Can't be pushed
Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:02 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:40 -0400
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X-Ray vision or Clairvoyance: Peeping Tom
Telepathy: Mental Peeping Tom, blackmail
Mind control: Think of Billy Mumy in the Twilight Zone, or Empath at any
time
Telekinesis: Anyone ever see Zapped or Modern Problems?
Desolid, Teleport, Shapeshift, Shrinking: Unstoppable tresspassing
Look for back issues of Marvel's New Universe's D.P.7. Around issues
15-20 or so, some of the teenagers form a gang, the DDTeens.
Dave Mattingly
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:03 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Super Kids
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:04:02 -0400 (EDT)
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> Something new to talk about...
>
> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>
A big moustache on the Statue of Liberty? Painting the White House pink?
I'm thinking pranks (but financially costly pranks).
> 2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
> of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
> yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
> theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
> they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
> make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
> them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
> little girl in the hospital??')
>
Heavy Hitter - dressed in a baseball uniform. has 0 range telekinesis
focused through a baseball bat. Might also be called "Bat Boy".
Leapin' Lizard - looks like lil' orphin annie and can jump really high.
green costume in a lizard motif.
Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
Liliputian Lass - can shrink down to 6" high (a la gulliver's travels)
Giggle Girl - an area effect power to make everyone drop to the ground
giggling.
Kid Kong - can change into a small gorilla with all the mighty powers
a 3' tall gorilla would possess.
Elastic Lad - stretching powers.
Beam-Me-Up Boy - teleportation powers.
Tag - Speedster (as in "you're it")
Hide and Seek - a brother and sister combo: one with invisibility, the
other with clairavoyance.
Miss Anne Thrope - the team's ringleader, their 4th grade teacher. she
has no powers, except to manipulate the minds of young children to EVIL!
um... i think i just got carried away....
-Eric
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:51:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Rothman <drothman@bah.com>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: 0 END vs. Uses
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970620142431.0068c684@mychoice.net>
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Michael Gillespie wrote:
> I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
> talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
> autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
>
> I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
> incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
> with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
> don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
> useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
> there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
> reduced END.
>
> Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
> my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
> in", receiving no limit for them:
> Must be used at full power
> Can't be spread
> Can't be pushed
> Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
>
> Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
> a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
> worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
> to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
> limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
>
> But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
> worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
> justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
>
>
Character Concept, Character Concept, Character Concept.
grenade-like weapons may get indirect for free.
The physical charges themselves (if applicable) may have intrinsic use
(i.e. be good power sources, valuable trade items, etc.)
by SFX they may be interchangable for several powers (c.f. End Bat +1/4 adv)
Charged items can be disabled (i.e. bad guy takes away your clip, not your
gun - can't be done with 0-end gun). May cause worthwhile plot points.
daniel
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:06 1997
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From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
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References: <1.5.4.16.19970620123309.27d7d012@topaz.cqu.edu.au&> <33AA4289.3DA8@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:53:41 (-0600)
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:42:49 -0700,
"Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> HAPPYELF!!! sez;
>
> > or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
> > simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
> > the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
> >
> > a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> > this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> > rolls on everything in the plot.
>
> Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
> that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
> esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
> types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
> assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
> would be less pronounced in the first place.
True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under the
pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town. An
the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't call
yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing, Streetwise,
and Conversation.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:08 1997
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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> From: Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
> Subject: Super Kids
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:04:02 -0400 (EDT)
> To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Something new to talk about...
> >
> Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
Filksinger
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:18:55 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:41:02 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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> > a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> > this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> > rolls on everything in the plot.
>
> Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
> that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
> esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
> types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
> assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
> would be less pronounced in the first place.
>
not nesecarily- it is a matter of how likely a given gm is to simply ascribe a
steryotypedue to someone's character- hence they decide super tough RPDR guy is
a power-player, while another character may have say. . skads of telepathy,
but may have just phrased their character outline more "maturely"- both (or
neither) may be power-players, depending on the attitude they cop from
the gm- it's up to the gm to work with the playr's concept, as much as the other way
round. ..
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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At 12:26 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On 6/15/97 10:16 AM, Earl Kwallek (earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us) Said:
>
>[snippage on characters generated by the patented Abuse-A-Matic Hero
>Generator]
>
>> In short, these players designed a bunch of Combat-Killer-Death-Machines
>>rather than anything resembling real people... but then that seems to be
>>normal for the games I have run/played in....
>> Oh well....
>
>So throw them into a mystery, or a diplomatic situation. Watch 'em
>squirm. Tell them that these kinds of plots are common, and they can redo
>their characters now, if they want, or never.
>
or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
rolls on everything in the plot.
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:35 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
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A
>B> But that's all mechanics, what does the Code vs. Killing mean for an
>B> individual character.
>
>It means that the character will consciously and actively avoid the use of
>lethal force.
>
not nescisarily- it could be a subconcious compulsion, like hypnotic programming-
anything not "physical", or which has an ego-type resist, is "psycoloical".
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:36 1997
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At 12:13 AM 6/16/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:02:48 -0500, Earl Kwallek wrote:
>
>>At 12:42 PM 6/15/97 +1000, HAPPYELF wrote:
>>>
>>>>>so? who says bricks have to be slow???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No one- but I have a minor objection to the team Brick being the FASTEST
>>>>member of the party (I dug up the CHar-Recs for that game)
>>>> The brick Had: DEX 33, SPD 8, and 90 STR as well as 30" of Flight
>>>>
>>>so??? why do we have to chuck this guy in s steryotype he obviously
>>doesn't fit??
>>
>> You are either being deliberately dense here, or missing my point
>>entirely...
>>I have a problem with characters that "Have it all" this guy had the best
>>SPD, highest attack (in dice), Best defenses, and second highest DEX/CV in
>>the game.
>>Now do you understand my objection?
>
><subtle hint coming up :}>
>
>Right, so what was the guy's ECV?
>
>
and what about his power defence?
flash defence?
dnpc's??
how about an evil twin fer the guy??
or am i still being dense???
*lol*
:->~
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:37 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth group
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how about. . . .razor-waterslide man!!!
At 02:29 AM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Let's see here... the mysterious street gang that materializes whenever
>a motorist blinks thir high beams, destroying the car and killing
>the occupants.
> A related gang has several unnaturally skinny members who like to hide
>under cars and wait to stab the drivers in the ankle with a syrineful
>of knockout drugs.
> Or, for an old-fashioned approach, a bunch who have the ability to hide
>razor blades in apples that children are about to eat.
>
> Hurm. I suppose all of those could be generated by a single evil mage
>with an odd sense of humor and an addiction to alt.folklore.urban.
>In which case, he probably likes to sling around "Transform: Glass into
>Flowing Glass". :-)
> Daniel Pawtowski
>dpawtows@vt.edu
>
>
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:38 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth group
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how about. . .. a tank that gets 1000 miles to the gallon?? or a fleet
of stripped down army surpless jeeps bought for $20 each??
At 01:39 AM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Patrick Barden wrote:
>>
>> I am looking to create an NPC team of villians based on urban myths.
>>
>> The only one I have so far is:
>> Candyman
>> A drug dealer who uses mirrors to terrorize his victims and opponents. He
>> also maintains a personal dimension behind the mirrors. He is obsessed with
>> (ie. will be stalking) some of the female members of the hero team.
>
> There's always the good ol' Boogeyman who has incredible stealth,
>possibly invisibility or camoflauge (you never know where he's coming
>from), and who knows what kind of attack once he 'get's ya'.
>
> And of course, every town anywhere has a "house". Some house or place
>that is rumored to have any various kinds of spooky/weird/macabre stuff
>going on inside it. Could be their HQ (Who really wants to attack the
>home front then?), or it could be an actual member of the team, though
>the logistics of this (some kind of sentience occupying whatever
>house/place that is most convenient?) could be an incredible
>headache....
>
>--
> -Capt. Spith
> Savior of Humanity
> Secular Messiah
>
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:40 1997
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Subject: House Rules!(Was:THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE)[LONG]
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The THUNDERBIRD wrote:
>
> Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
> character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
>
> In Short -
> Two brothers - One "good", one "not so good".
<Origin Story edited....>
> Not the end . . . the "good" brother wakes up, wearing the mask, in a
> brightly coloured costume. Investigation leads him to discover that his
> dead brother lives on, in side of him, like a disembodied spirit. In
> this form, the brothers are "twice as strong, agile, enduring, etc"
> They possess the skills and abilities of both brothers, and control of
> the body "flip-flops" from one to the other.
>
> In an attempt to remove the mask, the brothers find that it splits down
> the middle, and in a flash, another change occurs. Each brother is now
> in a single mask, one of "Comedy" and one of "Trajedy". They each have
> a physical form, their own martial art skill, and their own powers: the
> ability to conjure "props" (such as cream pies and Shakespearian Skulls)
> and to create realistic illusions.
>
> The two become "superheroes" the "Comedian and the Thespian", and in
> times of great need, the combined power of the Harlequin. They adopt a
> single secret identity, since when the mask is off, only the one body
> remains.
This is a perfect situation for the implementation of the warped way
I've rewritten Duplication and Multiform in my own House Rules. Nothing
here will help you if you're looking for a 'legitimate' solution, but
here goes....
In my games, Duplication and Multiform each have a cost of 1 point
per five of the aternate form(s) cost, for all forms purchased, first
and all subsequent. For Duplication, there is another option, though;
For 'duplicates' which are different from the base character, the cost
is 2 per 5 - effectively the cost of duplication and Multiform
together. Thus the cost of two 'duplicates' that have different
powers/skills than the base form would be 2/5 of the appropriate
character costs for each, or effectively 4/5 of the cost of one
character. Rather spendy, but I'm not done. Since the 'base character'
is lost during duplication, the total duplication cost is given a -1/2
limitation (reducing the cost by 1/3 to reflect losing one third of the
characters paid for by purchasing two duplicates[the general application
being a limitation of 1/x applied to the cost for x duplicates when the
'base' form is lost]), resulting in a grand total of a cost of 8/15 of
the point total of one of the duplicates to give a character who has his
own powers, then splits into two different halves, each less powerful
than the base.
With these costs, you could (for example) have the two thespians
built on 200 points each, which would cost a total of 107 points. If
Harlequin was built on 350, this would leave 243 points for his own
powers. The Duplication cost could also be reduced by a focus or Hero
ID limitation if needed.
Alternately....
Reading through the BBB's writeup, it is actually unclear as to how
identical duplicates actually have to be; the example mentions a
250-point character with a 100-point 'duplicate'. Thus, here is a much
more legal possibility;
Build Harlequin fully as needed, then buy one (1) duplicate at the
listed cost of 2/5 of the duplicate's point total. From what I read of
your origin, it sounds as if each of the three forms has effectively
identical powers, but varying SFX, so the duplicate could be built as
either the Comedian or the Thespian, and the Harlequin would put a
limitation on all his powers and Characteristics and such to reduce them
to the duplicate's level when duplicated. (In pre-4th edition CHAMPS, I
believe this was a -1/4 limitation). I would call the varying SFX
between all the forms merely a free special effect of the concept, since
the individual characters don't vary their individual effects. With
this method, the cost would only be for a singlre duplicate, with
partial limitations on most of the powers of the base, and a little
fudging with SFX.
*Whewh* Any help? Or did I simply ramble too much?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:42 1997
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HAPPYELF!!! sez;
> or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
> simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
> the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
>
> a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> rolls on everything in the plot.
Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
would be less pronounced in the first place.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:43 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
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At 03:15 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>I just discovered Champions recently, and am so far very impressed.
>It seems like almost any power is possible to build. I'm stumped
>on a couple of psionic powers, though:
>-
>Psionic Surgery - A lengthy process (can take as long as a day or two
>for severe changes, less time for minor ones) where the target's per-
>sonality is reshaped to to psychic's whim. This can add or remove
>psychological disadvantages, memories, etc. The effects can be
>reversed by a friendly telepath or psychotherepist, given enough
>rehab time.
>
i'd diothis with just a transform. saves time, and you could even have the 'dice' of transform applied as a psyc lim (or other limitation, depending on special effect)
so say u get 20 total points of major transform, u give the character a 20 pt psyc lim!!!
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:44 1997
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From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 09:50:59 GMT
Message-Id: <21543.9706200950@csm.exeter.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE
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The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@net.bconnex>
>My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
>Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
>Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
>points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built on
>a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
>(strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
>have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
>(Whew!!!!)
I'm going to suggest that you simply use duplication.....
It should be possible to put the powers in each duplicate with
the limitation [only usable in one duplicate form at a time -??]
Thus you get the unduplicated form (Harlequin) where all of
the powers work. When duplicated then one set of powers are
off limits, and one set of disads will be utilised in one
duplicate. the other set of powers and the second set of
disads will be utilised in the other.
I wouldn't worry about how to swap the disads for Harlequin,
I'd just do it as a special effect. As long as the Harlequin
always had enough disads to balance his points then there
should be balance.
Does that work??
Stephen
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:44:04 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
You didn't say "Simon Says...."
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:05 1997
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From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>
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At 03:49 PM 6/20/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
>> Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>>
>> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
>> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
>> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>
>I think it would depend upon the powers. If I had invisibility when I was
>11-14, I probably would have been severly tempted to make off with all the
>gaming books, modules and minatures I could carry. Also, sneaking into
>the movies, amusments parks etc.
>
I suspect Invisible Boy would be spending a lot of time sneaking into girl's
locker rooms...
>I could imagine a kid with super strngth trying to steal his own video
>game and put it in the basement. And any kid who could fly could get into
>more trouble that you can possibly imagine.
>
The Mind Controller would spend use his powers to get other kids (and
eventually adults) to give him/her things (try pinning that sown in a court)
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:06 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:58:09 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Something new to talk about...
>
>I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
>across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
>for.
>
>The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
>to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
>'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
>this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
>long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
>commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
>without turning public opinion against them?)
>
i had a simmilar, though more menacing group. they were each mutants, led
by a powerful teenage telepath, who did whatever the hell they wanted and then
pleaded 'victim of society' at trial- plus litle telepathic pushes at the judge,
so they were always let off.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:07 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under the
>pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
>example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town. An
>the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
>chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
>roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't call
>yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
>points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing, Streetwise,
>and Conversation.
>
>
but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:09 1997
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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>
>> Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do
>whatever
>> he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
>Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>
Knowing his luck, the cleaning lady (60 years old) would just be
finishing up as he walked in ;-{
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:10 1997
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From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:31:12
>To: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
>From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
>Subject: Re: Super Kids
>
>At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Something new to talk about...
>>
>>I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
>>across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
>>for.
>>
>>The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
>>to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
>>'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
>>this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
>>long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
>>commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
>>without turning public opinion against them?)
>>
>>Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>>
>>1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
>>of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
>>Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>>
>
>My game is probably a shade darker than yours, but I did add yet another
twist. Basically the group of superpowered kids was trying to gain revenge
for the abuse that had been perpetrated on them, by abusive parents/foster
parents/ and the system that put them their. THe kids crimes centered around
attacking the system, the government, individual foster agencies, and the like.
>So of course the government was trying to capture them quietly, so my group
>made as much noise as possible.
>
>
>>2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
>>of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
>>yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
>>theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
>>they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
>>make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
>>them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
>>little girl in the hospital??')
>
>Well, my kids won't fit here. They were pretty tough, which made it
amusing because the group basically wouldn't touch them. (Two members have
protective of kids as disads.) Rainbow, controlling light and color is the
team leader. Shes an agressive teenager, full of hate. Micky and Red are two
teenage boys who follow her for more reasons of hormone than anything,
though both have their axes to grind against the system. Micky is a tough
street kid, with 'powers of persuasion' (read mind control, very subtly
used). Red was russian, his father was killed in a trip to the states, and
he ended up in US homes, unadoptable because of his heritage. Red is
actually a hanger on, who in the course of their first adventure steals some
powered armor. (It's the story I used to get the group involved.)
>Lucy is a 10 year old healer, who is following simply because she thinks if
she doesn't she'll get killed, and she really admires all the teens who have
accepted her. And benny, well benny is only 3. His powers are incredible,
but of course, he's three. Usually he occupies a battle by wondering what's
going on, and if he sees an attack on one of his friends, he unleashes with
one huge tantrum attack of disintigration or something, to make the bad
people go away.
>Benny has a teddy bear that he bestowed with life by sheer will power.
(follower).
>Benny is the most dangerous member of the group, and the easiest to reason
with if the party does not mean him harm. Basically, if you mean well, you
approach him like you would any three year old you want to trust you. If
not, well, he'll turn you into a newt.
>
>>
>>3. How would the law handle superpowered criminal kids? It's not like
>>you can just stick them in juvie hall.. but you can't stick them in
>>Stronghold EITHER...
>
>Better yet, how do you handle superpowered kids that the government would
like to make disapear, but that only works if your willing to let your
government operate in shades of grey.
>
>>
>>thanks in advance for the help...
>>
>>
>>Todd
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
>> BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:12 1997
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From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:53:14 +0000
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Subject: PBEM
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I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
their move. Any ideas?
Filksinger
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:13 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:46:34 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
>
> Filksinger
hero combat should always be estimated across email. just stick to
action-defence, and make shure the fast ones go first and most often.
When, in about a YEAR at this rate, i get my own possible pbem up, i will
be useing a short subtext system- only one line of it per action/paragraph,
and working from general combat estimates for the rest. I would also advise
you look to IRc, or maybe one of those html-based chat thingies- i find
cutting and pasting is easier in that medium.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:14 1997
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:51:30 (-0600)
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On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:00:12 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under
> the
> >pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
> >example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town.
> An
> >the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
> >chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
> >roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't
> call
> >yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
> >points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing,
> Streetwise,
> >and Conversation.
> >
> >
>
> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:16 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 12:58:03
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Subject: Re: 0 END vs. Uses
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:24:31 +0000, Michael Gillespie wrote:
>I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
>talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
>autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
>
>I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
>incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
>with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
>don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
>useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
>there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
>reduced END.
>
>Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
>my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
>in", receiving no limit for them:
> Must be used at full power
-1/4 on its own (see HSR).
> Can't be spread
Ditto ('Beam attack')
> Can't be pushed
> Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
>
>Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
>a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
>worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
>to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
>limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
>
>But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
>worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
>justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
As an Independent item where the charges do not recover. 'Take this
rod, but beware, child, its power is only good for ...'
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:17 1997
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Subject: Re: PBEM
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 12:17:25 -0500
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From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
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filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
>I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
>before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
>such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
>particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
>slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
>their move. Any ideas?
>
>Filksinger
>
Try emailing David Miller (selena@fred.net). He's been running one for
a couple years now and is just completeing a rewrite of the campaign
including house rules that have come up along the way. He may be able
to grant some insights.
PAX.
____________________________________________________________________
| Name: John P. Weatherman | Phone: |
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net | (H) (910) 785-1130 |
| fax: (910) 748-4632 | (O) (910) 545-2722 |
|_____________________________|____________________________________|
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives |
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose |
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could |
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: |
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust. |
| Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384) |
|__________________________________________________________________|
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:19 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT)
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> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>
> Filksinger
>
Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
-Eric
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:21 1997
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:14:37 -0500 (CDT)
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Subject: PBEM
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> From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
>
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
>
> Filksinger
There's supposed to be article on running e-mail games accessible from
Harrigan's web page. http://www1.usa1.com/~davin/rpg/coc/cocmain.html
He's just started an e-mail game himself.
I believe the trick for combats is not to run it phase by phase, but
get general guidelines for each character and run it in half-turn intervals
or stop when the situation changes greatly.
Curt
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:22 1997
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From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu>
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Subject: Babylon 5 probabilities
In-Reply-To: <199706212214.RAA17645@b04b17.exu.ericsson.se> from Curt Hicks at "Jun 21, 97 05:14:37 pm"
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:31:42 -0400 (EDT)
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Well, there was an arguemnt about this the other day, so I'll repost
this here (with the author's permission):
T A S K P R O B A B I L I T I E S I N
T H E B A B Y L O N P R O J E C T R P G
by Pierre Savoie
[If you want to get right down to a useful Master Probability Table, skip a
bit.]
Over the years I have noticed how role-playing games try to distinguish
themselves using exotic dice-rolling systems. Some are content with simple
percentile rolls, where people can clearly see what the odds are in per cent
for the target probability. Almost as easy is the classic d20 system, as old
as the CHAINMAIL wargame which became D&D, based on the laudable premise that
you don't have to cut probabilities too fine to be able to model different
rates of success (in familiar 5% increments).
Gary Gygax once tried to form his own RPG company, New Infinities
Productions Inc. For their only RPG, CYBORG COMMANDO, he suggested a roll
where two d10's were MULTIPLIED together which was then compared to the
target probability. This was usually based on a "percentile" skill, and to
improve this skill experience points were added to it uniformly, but as the
character became expert in that skill the linear increases did less and less
good, with fewer and fewer new dice rolls in the high end which were a
success, reflecting the difficulty of improving an expert character. Games
from Chaosium Inc. use the inverse method of giving skills in their true
linear percentile probability, but reducing the chances of a skill increase
at high percentage values (non-linear percentile improvement).
Some games base themselves on 3d6 or 2d6 rolls, but people get used to
the probability profile and have a feel for how much more likely an "11+" is
than a "14+". Some really go off the deep end such as SHADOWRUN, with
rolling a number of single six-sided dice at a time based on your skill, each
roll of 6 causing you to keep the 6 and add a new roll (ad infinitum), and
then counting up the number of dice which beat a target number and comparing
to the number of such successes you need. Yechhhh!
Anyway, why does THE BABYLON PROJECT RPG (TBP) use the dice-rolling
system it does? For any character actions which are not an automatic "sure
thing", all games seek to create a sufficiently varied range of outcomes.
Increases in skill and situational modifiers will move the probabilities into
some new range in interesting ways, if the game is well designed.
Given a range of outcomes, most games try to model the probabilities of
each dice-roll so that they resemble a chunky bar-graph version of the
Gaussian curve or "bell curve", where extreme results occur but rarely and
average results are much more common.
Recent games (STAR WARS, CYBERPUNK) have been making greater use of a
Target Number system, where there is a certain value you need to "make" or
"beat". Any higher rolls are also winners, and the probability of success
equals the sum of the probabilities of all equal or higher numbers. Because
of the large "hump" in the middle of the probability profile, slight changes
in the target cause the largest changes in probability in this range.
This feature of the bell curve has been very important for decades in
tactical boardgames, encouraging players to marshall all the advantages they
can get, to add "bonuses" to improve their odds when evenly matched. This
was described in a little-known booklet called GAME DESIGN: Volume 1: Theory
and Practice, by Nick Schuessler and Steve Jackson, 1981, chapter 6 (there
were no further Volumes!)
As the 1st-edition AD&D game made clear, the easiest way to simulate
something close to a bell curve was to roll three six-sided dice and add the
numbers (two dice are not enough because the probability is more of a
triangular profile, although this was used in early TRAVELLER.) The extreme
results 3 and 18 each occur on the average only once every 216 throws.
TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
Modifier.
This Random Modifier causes results to vary according to a distribution.
Two six-sided dice are rolled, one representing "positive" and the other
"negative", but only the smaller die is retained as the result. Since there
are 36 possible combinations of these dice pairs, we can determine the
consequences of each pair and tabulate the results:
Result: # of occurrences (out of 36):
+ 5 1
+ 4 2
+ 3 3
+ 2 4
+ 1 5
0 6 [the result of all tied dice-pairs](*)
- 1 5
- 2 4
- 3 3
- 4 2
- 5 1
So far, simple. In fact, you would get the same spread of probability
just by adding two six-sided dice together and subtracting 7, but TBP avoids
even this minimal arithmetic by simply asking you to focus on the number of
the smaller die-roll.
(*)Rolling two 1's gives an additional Setback result of some minor
sort; rolling two 6's gives a minor Benefit result. Since these are
adjudicated by the GM, they are role-played and add some interest to the
situations but do not affect probabilities.
Since players will want to design characters with some kind of
specialist profession, they will naturally tend to boost the Attribute
important to the skills of that profession by +2, raise a favorite skill to
the beginner maximum of 4, and name a specialty within that skill for a +2
bonus. Assuming an average base racial Attribute of 5, that totals 13.
Although some players will want to spread skill points around or attempt to
have two or more favored specialties, their main skill rolls will equal or
approach that number.
TBP has assigned target numbers to Difficulty ratings on a non-linear
scale, where an unmodified rating of Difficult is 11 but Very Difficult is
15. Since a seasoned professional in a skill is at up to 13, this falls
conveniently in the middle of a very sensitive range, where the Random
Modifier creates small swings in the final number and large swings in the
resulting probability of beating the Difficulty number -- right where a
professional is challenged by tough tasks.
Unskilled characters can only apply their Attribute to an Ability
number, so they are struggling with what to a human professional are
Basic/Average Tasks. Difficulties of 5 to 9 are their critical range.
For routine tasks, set much lower, the player may not even have to
bother rolling at all, although he should anyway to see if he gets "snake
eyes" (the minor, role-played Setback result) or "boxcars" (some extra
Benefit). But for tasks in the challenging range, the GM must be very
careful to use Difficulty number modifiers sparingly, and here's why:
If we consider the Margin obtained by subtracting the Difficulty number
of the task from the Ability number resulting from the character's Attribute,
Skill and Specialty, we can then construct this handy master (monster!)
table:
------------------------------------------------------------
MASTER PROBABILITY TABLE
(chances out of 36)
Margin [PIP=Probability of Injury after Pushing(*);
between (C=Critical, S=Significant, N=Normal, M=Marginal)
Ability + (S=Success, F=Failure) ]
and
Diffi- SUCCESS
culty TOTAL PIP CS SS NS MS | MF NF SF CF
|
11 or more 36 0 36 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
|
10 36 0 35 1 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
9 36 0 33 3 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
8 36 0 30 5 1 0 | 0 0 0 0
7 36 0 26 7 3 0 | 0 0 0 0
6 36 0 21 9 5 1 | 0 0 0 0
|
5 36 0 15 11 7 3 | 0 0 0 0
4 35 0 10 11 9 5 | 1 0 0 0
3 33 0 6 9 11 7 | 2 1 0 0
2 30 0 3 7 11 9 | 3 3 0 0
1 26 1 1 5 9 11 | 4 5 1 0
|
0 21 3 0 3 7 11 | 5 7 3 0
|
- 1 15 6 0 1 5 9 | 6 9 5 1
- 2 10 10 0 0 3 7 | 5 11 7 3
- 3 6 15 0 0 1 5 | 4 11 9 6
- 4 3 21 0 0 0 3 | 3 9 11 10
- 5 1 26 0 0 0 1 | 2 7 11 15
|
- 6 0 30 0 0 0 0 | 1 5 9 21
- 7 0 33 0 0 0 0 | 0 3 7 26
- 8 0 35 0 0 0 0 | 0 1 5 30
- 9 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 3 33
-10 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 1 35
|
-11 or less 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 36
(*)The probability of physical injury after pushing a physical Attribute by
1 is given for the Margin for the new Ability score derived from the new,
temporary physical Attribute. This probability is equal to SF + CF. Keep in
mind that suggested Impact injury for SF is 3, and CF is 6, and so the
probability distribution and not just the total injury probability will
matter.
To convert these figures to percentage probabilities, multiply the values
given by 2.777777777.
------------------------------------------------------------
By adding up the probability of rolls which meet or exceed the target
Difficulty number, we get probabilities reminiscent of a bell curve
distribution. Notice that an Ability number evenly matched to a Difficulty
gives a slightly larger than 50% probability of success (21/36). This has to
do with the fact that a Random Modifier of zero is in fact counted as a
Success result instead of something neutral, and so Marginal Successes almost
always exceed Marginal Failures. This creates an effect similar to a "house
percentage" in gambling casinos, except here the slight improvement in
probability works to the advantage of characters vs. the cold impersonal
universe.
The sensitive area for fluctuations in the Margin span the area of +1 to
-2. In just that short range, the chance of success goes from over 2/3rds
(26/36) to under 1/3rd (10/36). That is why GMs must be very careful not to
allow too many modifiers, and resist the whining and pleading of the players
to add even a +/- 1 modifier for a trivial reason. However, if there is an
overwhelmingly good reason, the GM can add a large modifier and either make
success in a task almost assured -- or almost beyond the reach of even the
top specialists.
But that's not all! Every roll causes a particular degree of success or
failure, and as the Margin goes up, not only does the probability of success
increase but the quality of successes will shift also. The distributions are
clearly shown along each row of the table, although by this point a math
analysis of success breaks down because most non-combat results are defined
by the GM for what is meant by "Critical Success" or "Marginal Failure". A
player may have fixed an Attribute and Skill to set his Margin rather high,
but the specific quality of the result is still in doubt, with a rough bell
curve profile of results.
Bell-curve profiles occur every which way, in whatever direction on the
table when you keep one variable fixed, and so that yields the desired
diversity of results. That is why I would rate TBP's system as better-than-
average and deceptively simple since you roll only two dice and appear to
have fixed the range of outcomes when you fixed your Attribute and skill levels.
Another outcome of this table has to do with the Probability of taking
an Impact Injury after Pushing a physical Attribute (PIP). This practice
works best when you are already a star athlete, to raise your positive Margin
to achieve really spectacular successes. It should not be tried at the lower
Margins to reduce the severity of failure, since you will indeed shift the
bell-curve distribution of results by moving up one row, but the act of
Pushing will now introduce the risk of Impact Injury (equal to the sum of the
chances of Significant and Critical Failures).
It is unclear whether multiple simultaneous pushes are allowed, but even
sequential use of pushing carries an extra risk of exhaustion when reducing
Endurance down to half.
Once again, I welcome comments to this analysis.
---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net)
-
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that's an "L", not a "one", at the end). For more information on
The Babylon Project, visit Chameleon Eclectic's web site at
http://www.blackeagle.com.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:26 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:27:54 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Subject: Ultimate series
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Has anyone heard anymore on any of the Ultimate Books?
I looked at the Hero Page....... Nice job of being current. ;) But where
do I go for the NEW stuff? My group is getting antsy to build a new team
and wants all the shiney new toys to do it with.
On a related note...... does anyone have a new (well not necessarily
new) VIPER villain they'd like to share or lend out? Preferabley
something devious and cunning. I'm building new Nest in Dallas and
need a Paranormal to run the place. ANY suggestions will be
appreciated.
Thanx
Jerry
aka Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:28 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:33:43 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 probabilities
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At 06:31 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
(blah)
> TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
>many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
>tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
>arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
>a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
>Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
>Modifier.
(blah)
they didn't find anything. Daeldalus used the same system in it's Nexus game-
incidentally the only other good multigenre i've found.
All in all, this is what i object to. No one on the list persisted with the
"50%-50%" thingie fer long. A few people just said the game sucked.
Please, can we stay away from purposless stuff like this? Nobody cares about the
brilliant nuances of non-linear probability!! It all just makes it harder
for the GM to improvise with numbers. Yes, i say this afteer reading the whole thing, so please don't repost it.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:29 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 03:44 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
>> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>>
>> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>>
>> Filksinger
>>
>
>Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
>confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
>dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
>
>-Eric
>
>
i still like my slimebeast idea better. . . .
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:30 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
>> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
>
> That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
>lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
>singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
>what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
>other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
>characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
>characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
>thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
>PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
>all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
>because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
>
>
uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
and as for supes. . . .
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:35 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:54 PST
Subject: ego power
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From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
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I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Thanx
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:36 1997
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From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:39:35 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: PBEM
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-=> Quoting to Mike Lehmann <=-
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
I can offer what I use for my PBEM. Here's an explained Tactical Sheet, which is how my players inform me of their actions each phase or turn.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Champions Tactics Sheet Battle # ___
Player: _________________________ Character: ______________________
Scenario: ______________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stance:
Total Offense Active Offense Balance Active Defense Total Defense
- Only pick one, please. This will give me an idea of what types of
actions you may take, as well as power levels you'll be using. Please
do not take "Total Offense", then ask to be defending as your
objective.
(IOW, how are your combat levels, if any, used, and what types of
attacks are you likely to use: Haymakers over nerve strikes, for
example).
Primary Objective:
- Engaging/avoiding a specific opponent
- For example, blasting the big tank, or dousing the flaming guy.
- Taking/avoiding a specific action
- Hitting that switch with my Batarang (tm) or avoiding being
pushed into the spinning blades of evisceration...
- Ensuring/preventing a specific event
- Making sure the President gives his speech, or preventing Dr. Mad
Scientist from pulling the death ray "ON" lever...
- Using/opposing a specific skill
- Setting up a security program for the base or disarming a bomb
laid by Doctor Demolition...
- Only 1 of the above for Primary Objective
Secondary Objective:
- Same rules as Primary
General Objectives:
- Can be up to 3 other actions of minor importance.
- Like deal with flying dudes, or cover my buddies... general
actions (which could be as detailed as you want 'em to be).
These priorities will give me an idea of what you'd plan on doing during
the fight. You can be as detailed as you like, but there is a 5-action
limit for most (1 primary, 1 secondary, 3 general)...
Observing:
- You can observe many things, but your perception of each is reduced.
1-2 things of key importance should be sufficient.
- Watching out for "unseen" foes may cause some firing at shadowy
figures.
Of course, if you're watching the shadows and someone springs out of
them, you'll have a good shot at them...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It can get a little confusing using it the first few times, but once you
get the hang of using it, it gives a lot of flexibility to the player
and (especially) the GM, who usually writes up the results of combat
actions...
mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net - - - - - Justice Krewe / Enigma Watch GM
- - - - - - http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html - - - - - -
... "Auto Repair Service. Try us once, you'll never go anywhere again."
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:37 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:50:50 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: ego power
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Daemon Devillore wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
> multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
> on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Hmmm...
4d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1 Area Effect Line (or radius, or
cone...)
60 active points and a downright nasty power.
Of course, if you want to get even UGLIER:
3d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1-1/2 Autofire vs Special Defenses,
+1/2 half end.
60 active points and usually doing 9-12 dice of NND damage to most
people (assuming the egoist has a decent ECV and mental defense is
fairly uncommon in the campaign)
Good luck on getting a GM to approve the last one though ;) (or still
having it after the first or second time you use it)
Todd
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 13:55:58 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: GURPS to Hero (long)
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CONVERTING GURPS SUPERS TO HERO
The following is a rough outline of how to convert your typical GURPS
Supers character into Hero System character sheet. Note that this is
really a 'quick-and-dirty' guide to systems conversion, I am not all that
familiar with GURPS mechanics to try anything more complex than the
basics. This is also not an attempt to breakdown GURPS posers into their
HERO equivalents. I highly recommend that anyone trying to convert from
GURPS have (at least ) GURPS Supers available.
PART I: Characteristics
For converting from GURPS to Hero using the following chart (adapted from
Fantasy Hero 2nd Edition).
STR see below
DEX (DX x 2) -10
CON (HT x 2) -10
BODY HT and see below
INT (IQ x 2) -10
EGO see below
PRE 10 + (Charisma x 2.5) and see below
COM see below
PD Figured x 2 (note: this may result in very odd numbers)
ED Figured x 2 (ditto)
SPD Figured(Round Up) and see below
REC Figured
END Figured
STUN Figured
Note: the (CHAR x 2) -10 system works well enough for most translations.
When adapting low-level characters (ie. normals) this will result in Hero
Characteristics from 10 to 30. This may be a bit extreme for some GMs.
It tends to work out fine for Super Hero characters.
STR: this stat is a mess as far as translations go. GURPS STR is linear
(20 STR is 2x as strong as a 10 STR, 40 is as twice as strong as 20 etc.),
while Hero is exponential (each 5 points of STR is doubles your lifting
capacity). After some rough figuring based upon stated values in source
material and the GURPS maximum lifting rules I offer the following system:
GURPS HERO
15 13
16 14
17 15
18 16
19 17
20 18
21 19
22 20
26 23
30 25
33 28
35 30
45 33
55 35
65 38
75 40
90 43
110 45
130 48
150 50
180 53
210 55
250 58
290 60
350 63
410 65
BODY: some characters have the power of "Extra Hit Points". Add these to
the HT score to find the characters final BODY total.
EGO: There are several ways to handle this. One is to use (IQ x 2) -10,
which means that any smart character is going to have a high Ego as well.
Another is to use ((IQ + Strong Will) x2) -10. The third is to use IQ +
(Strong Will x 2) to determine EGO. The final is to use 10 + (Strong Will
x 2). The best method seems to be the third way.
PRE: Another way is to give the character +3 PRE for ever level of
Charisma they have.
COM: A rough correlation is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Hideous 0-2
Ugly 4-6
Unattractive 8
Attractive 12-14
Handsome/Beautiful 16-18
Very Handsome/Beautiful 20-22+
SPD: This is very tough. The move score given for characters only
reflects their actual movement. The character's Speed stat helps to
determine over all quickness. a very high GURPS Speed should mean a very
good Hero SPD. In many cases refer to the character description.
MOVE: use the GURPS movement score straight over as the Hero Running.
Some characters may have Flight, and some will have different Flight
numbers (such as a base flight and a "super" flight. In many cases the
Flight listed is a top speed. Usually these numbers can help determine
the characters actual SPD as well.
PART II: GURPS Advantages
A lot of this are similar to Hero Talents. Others are simulated by a
characteristic boost. See the chart below. Note: any GURPS Advantage not
listed is something that doesn't translate to Hero easily.
GURPS HERO
Absolute Direction Bump of Direction
Absolute Timing Absolute Time Sense
Acute Hearing PER bonus to hearing
Acute Taste and Smell PER bonus to taste/smell
Acute Vision PER bonus to sight
Alertness PER bonus
Ambidexterity Ambidexterity
Attractiveness see COM
Charisma see PRE
Clerical Investment Perk: Priest
Combat Reflexes Increase DEX or CSL with HTH
Danger Sense Danger Sense
Double-Jointed Double Jointed
Eidetic Memory Eidetic Memory
High Pain Threshold Add to PD or ED, 1/4 Damage Resistance,
Physical, Stun Only (-1/2)
Immunity to Disease Life Support: Immunity to Disease
Language Talent Linguist
Legal Enforcement Powers Perk: Legal Enforcement Powers (var)
Lightning Calculator Lightning Calculator
Luck: 15 Points 1d6 Luck
Luck: 30 Points 3d6 Luck
Military Rank Perk: Rank (var)
Night Vision UV Vision (except *total* darkness)
Strong Will see EGO
Toughness Add to PD or ED, Damage Resistance or Armor
Wealth see below
GURPS HERO
Dead Broke Destitute
Poor Poor
Struggling Middle Class
Average Middle Class
Comfortable Middle Class
Wealthy Well Off
Very Wealthy Wealthy
Filthy Rich Filthy Rich
Allies Follower
Patron Contact
PART III: Disadvantages
These are pretty simple. Most of them translate right over to Hero disads
pretty easy. I'd recommend getting a hold of a GURPS rule book to
determine exactly what some of the disads mean, but... A rough breakdown
of GURPS Disadvantages would be as follows:
GURPS HERO
SOCIAL see below
Odious Personal Habit Usually a DF, or a Psych Lim
Poverty see Wealth
Primitive Phys Lim: Doesn't understand/unfamiliar with 'x'
Reputation Reputation
Social Stigma Usually a DF, or a Rep.
PHYSICAL usually a Phys Lim. Note that some GURPS Physical
Limitations may or may not be consider "valid"
limitations by Hero GMs.
MENTAL usually a Psych Lim. See notes below.
Addiction Possible Psych and Phys Lim
Berserk Berserk/Enraged
Dyslexia Phys Lim
Illiterate Phys Lim
Split Personality Phys Lim, as well as possible Accidental Change
Unluckiness 1d6 Unluck
Weak Will Lower the character's EGO
DEPENDENTS DNPC
DUTIES usually a Watched
ENEMIES Hunted
QUIRKS May be a DF or a minor Psych Lim. Some GMs allow
1 point Quirks for Hero as well (I do)
PART IV: Super Advantages, Powers and Super Skills
Get a copy of GURPS Supers and read the power description. There are far
to many powers and skills and so one to even try and define them all in
Hero terms. Such a project is feasible, but far beyond the intended scope
of this posting. Needless to say, most if not all questions such as power
level, damage amounts and such will often be determined by the GM's
preferences as well as information gained via translation. For example,
the author of this post tended to keep to a standard 60 Active Points for
powers when adapting the Wild Cards characters. The numbers tended to
work out alright and provide a nice consistent base for others to modify
from.
PART V: Super Disadvantages:
GURPS HERO
Dependency Dependence (or, possibly a Phys Lim)
Uncontrolled Change Accidental Change
Vulnerability Vulnerability
Weakness Susceptablity
PART VI: Skills
Skills tend to be pretty straight forward. Most skills have Hero
counterparts. Note that GURPS skills often have numbers that far exceed
the typical 3-18 range that Hero uses. A rough listing of easy to
translate skills is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Acrobatics Acrobatics, Breakfall
Acting Acting. Mimicry
Administration Bureaucratics
Animal Handler Animal Handling
Armory Weaponsmith
Bard Oratory
Climbing Climbing
Criminology Deduction
Demolitions Demolitions
Diplomacy Conversation
Disguise Disguise
Escape Contortionist
Fast Talk Bribery, Persuasion
First Aid Paramedic
Hobby Skill Knowledge Skill
Hold Out Concealment
Intelligence Analysis Criminology
Forgery Forgery
Gambling Gambling
Interrogation Interrogation
Lip Reading Lipreading
Lockpicking Lockpicking
Mechanic Mechanics
Merchant Trading
Navigation Navigation
Pick Pockets Sleight of Hand
Professional Skill Professional Skill
Riding Riding
Savoir-Faire High Society
Science Skills Science Skills
Sex Appeal Seduction
Shadowing Shadowing
Sleight of Hand Sleight of Hand
Strategy Tactics
Stealth Stealth
Streetwise Streetwise
Surgery Forensic Medicine
Swimming Swimming
Tactics Tactics
Traps Security Systems
Vehicle Skills Transport Familiarity
Ventriloquism Ventriloquism
Weapons Skills Weapon Familiarity
Martial Arts:
GURPS HERO
Brawling Dirty Infighting, or HTH CSL (either 3 point or 5
point levels
Fencing Fencing or Kenjutsu - any martial arts that relies
mainly upon use of a sword
Judo Akido, Judo, Wrestling - any martial arts that
concentrates upon throws and holds
Karate Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do - any martial arts
that concentrates upon punching and kicking
Note: some characters may have more than one martial skill. Moonchild
(from GURPS Wild Cards) had both Judo and Karate. The game description
mentioned her using Akido, but her nationality was Korean. I remembered
her using Tae Kwon Do maneuvers in one of the books and gave her those
packages. Other characters should get martial arts based upon origin and
character description.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:00 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 02:59:00 GMT
Subject: The Harlequin Challenge
Message-Id: <5c6_9706221021@october.com>
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h >
h > My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
h > Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
h > Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
h > points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built
h > a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
h > (strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
h > have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
h > (Whew!!!!)
h >
h > Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
h > that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
Usually when you have a duplicating character like this - with two
duplicates that are less powerful than the combined character,
you build the full power character with some of his powers bought
'not when duplicated' (-1/2?) and duplication.
If the two weaker characters are substantially different from the
combined form (or you just don't want one of the duplicates
staggering under the wieght of more disadvantages) you could buy
The 'combined' form as the 'primary' character, who would take
Duplication to produce one of the lesser characters, and a (probably
linked) Multiform to change into the other. This way, the two
Duplicates can be built on equal total points and Disadvantages,
and only the primary form need bear the cost of the Duplication
and Multiform.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:02 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:55:03 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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At 12:51 AM 6/22/97 PST, Daemon Devillore wrote:
>I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
>multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
>on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
hit the poor defenseless hex.
Joe
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:04 1997
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From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970622144748.354f1f0c@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with all sorts
> >of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for because
> >it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> uh-huh? and this is bad why?
Because it's generally considered appropriate to role-play your character
the way he or she was defined. If you want to play a character who's
weak-willed and/or easily frightened, buy the stats to represent that. If
you want certain powers and skills, buy them.
> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
I don't see how that relates at all.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:06 1997
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From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
> Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves: Targetting Sense because he can sense
> the play of gravity waves (when he contemplates killing Fortunato when the
> pimp reports the death of Hiram's friend at the hands of the Alchemist he
> does this).
Unless he's actually done something useful with this ability (preferrably
more than once), I'd say it's purely an SFX thing.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:07 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 05:16:00 GMT
Subject: ego power
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h > From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
h > To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
h > multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
h > on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
h >
h > Thanx
You're probably starting with the wrong power (Ego Attack). Instead,
buy an NND or AVLD Energy Blast, with the AE:Line Advantage. That's
a +2 advantage for the NND - 4d6 for 60 Apts. If you must, you could
take an EB with Based on Ego Combat Value instead. Same cost as the
NND, but will require a ECV roll against each victim, and goes against
EGO defense. Both are visible and take range mods, unlike an AE Ego
Attack, but the cost is more reasonable. Also, are you picturing a
line coming from the character or an AE that he puts out at a distance?
If the former, you can bring the cost down further with a 'no range'
limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * I am not a Rules Lawyer...I'm a Rules Activist.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:10 1997
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From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Re: ego power
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:54:04 -0400
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> It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
>
> 6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
> That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
> the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
> hit the poor defenseless hex.
>
> Joe
>
uhm, I believe that ego attack is 10 per die.. thus, it would be 120 active.... not
60.
Sean
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:12 1997
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From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:27:58 (-0600)
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> >> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
> >
> > That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
> >lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
> >singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
> >what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
> >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> >
>
> uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> and as for supes. . . .
Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
playing their charcters as if they were morons. If I have a character who is
defined as being cooler than the Fonze, whould I be comended for hacing the
character jump and go "Yipe!" everytime some punk gets in his face? Is that
roleplaying to you? If you reward players for playing characters stats lower
than they are, you would love my current group where I have told Charcters
what to do next and they still didn't have a clue as to what they needed to
do. Please, if you want to play an idiot, don't give him an 18 INT.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:14 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:34:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: A scenario idea, and a question
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Seeing as the list is so quiet, I'll offer up a scenario idea... (in
exchange for asking a question on how to do a part of it)
First a little background:
Here in Minneapolis we just had 'OzzFest' - an all day concert with 14
heavy metal bands, including Marilyn Manson. The concert was originally
supposed to be in Somerset Wisconsin (about 1/2 hour away) but a group
of 'concerned christians' got together and started a petition to stop
them from having the concert there if Marilyn was going to play. When
the concert was moved to Minneapolis, a similar christian group tried to
do the same thing here (they were unsuccessful - it's a little tougher
to do this in a city than in a small town).
For those of you unfamiliar with Marilyn Manson - his image is pretty
heavy with satanism undertones. (his tshirts all tout slogans like 'tell
me you love Satan' and 'Dont trust God - the Lord is a shepard') He
looks alot like Edward Scissorhands crossed with the transvestite from
Rocky Horror. He does things on stage like pretending to cut himself
(and despite what the media says, its fake blood - I watched close
tonite), rips up bibles, gets the crowd to chant things like 'We hate
love, we love hate', etc... he REALLY plays up the whole image and
drives the crowd into a real frenzy in the process. Drives the
christian groups (and the media) completely nuts.
disclaimer #1: I'm not a Marilyn Manson fan, I actually went to the
concerts for a couple of the OTHER bands... like Type O Negative! ;)
Anyway, now that I've set the stage, here's the scenario:
(Disclaimer #2 - if this seems to be a bit... disjointed, keep in mind
that I'm writing this after about 8 hours of listening to heavy metal
bands.. and my ears are still ringing)
Marilyn Manson (change the name if you want - I'm leaving it alone
because I know it will push some buttons in my group ;) is coming to
town to do a concert. Your campaign city has one of those groups that
EVERY city has - usually called something like 'Citizens for Decency' or
'Minneapolis Christian Coalition'. This group has made alot of noise
about not wanting this concert to take place.
Nobody is sure WHAT Marilyn Manson's real story is. His following just
gets stronger and stronger. After going to his concerts, his fans can't
wait to run out and buy just about anything with his name on it. The
more outragous he gets, the more the fans love him. Their devotion
borders on fanatacism.
The PCs are asked to go undercover at the concert and see just what is
going on.
What nobody knows: Marilyn's music is his expression of his
superpowers. His early songs work a large area effect ego drain. His
'speeches' in between songs are him using his high Oratory to inspire
the now low-ego fans. His final song is a large area effect mind
control that makes the crowd fanatically loyal to him (at the level to
make them think it is their own idea - not so tough to do to the
currently ego 0 fans).
The fun part: after the final song, when the christian group's own team
of supers breaks in to put a stop to this evil, a good share of the PCs
should already be under the mind control, and be ready to jump to
Marilyn's defense!
The best way to do this: know in advance which PCs have power defense,
how much ego is drained before the final song, what each PCs adjusted
ego (and ego roll) now is. Pre-Roll the mind control for the final
song, ask each PC to make a 3d6 roll (but dont tell them what it is
for). Seperate the PCs into 2 groups: those who are controlled, and
those that arent. Describe the scene of the christian supergroup
busting in to each group the way that they would see it: the controlled
group would see a group of murderous supers busting in and trying to
murder the innocent musician. The PCs who AREN'T controlled see things
as they actually are.. and won't understand why their friends are
fighting AGAINST them! Should provide for some good roleplaying, and a
chance for some of the PCs to go toe to toe with each other (and we all
know they are always looking for a chance to do THAT!)
Eventually the group of controlled PCs should grow smaller and smaller
(either as they are defeated, or as they break the mind-control. Maybe
give them another ego roll to break if a team mate actively tries to
convince them that they are being controlled?)
I'm going to use the above scenario to introduce another Supers group to
the campaign - a team that is considered 'one of the goodguys', but will
not always be working towards the same goals as the PCs are (and will
sometimes have conflicting goals). The above scenario will give them a
built in rivalry..
Okay, I shared the scenario... now the questions:
1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
can do the characters...
Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea?
Todd
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:17 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:25:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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> > >It was even worse with games
> > >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> > >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> > >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> > >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> > >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> > >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> > >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> > uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> > commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > and as for supes. . . .
>
> Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
> idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
> Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
> players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
> playing their charcters as if they were morons.
(and so on....)
It seems to me that there may be a misinterpretation by some people
between character concept, roleplaying, and character sheets. Allow me
to rant and ramble....
The original complaint had to do with players not playing their
characters' conceptions properly. I have to agree that that is a valid
complaint;
1)Powers and skills not 'paid for' are powers and skills that the
character does not have. Roleplaying cannot make a character understand
how to rebuild a car's engine if (s)he has no mechanics skill; even if
the PLAYER can.
2)Powers and skills that ARE paid for do not simply 'disappear' for
the sake of a humourous reaction or 'take'. If a character has a 25
PRE, (s)he's not going to be frightened or cowed by a thing jumping out
from a bush.
How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
an idiot.
Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
to all three.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:19 1997
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From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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Todd Hanson sez;
<Scenario Presented>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
Invisible Power Effects is precisely what would be appropriate in
this situation, and you'd probably want to include invisible to mental
as well (+1; invisible to all senses)
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
has;
Mother Superior
Father Secola
Cardinal Biggles
Cardinal Fang
and Caspar the Holy Ghost
Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
have a specific theme for their powers;
Mother Superior; Moses-style abilities (calling down plagues, nasty
weather against the enemy....)
Cardinal Biggles; A Charismatic preacher w/healing, mind control, and
an aid to give additional powers to the 'converted'.
Cardinal Fang; A Brick (The 'Righteous Fist of God)
Caspar; A multiform of the 'Father'(Aids and Drains), the 'Son'(ability
to do small 'miracles'), and the holy ghost(Desol and the ability to
possess people - at least those who are already righteous....)
Father Secola; Simply transportation (Huge amounts of Teleportation
useable on the whole team.)
--
Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:21 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:59:13 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
somewhat in relation to its concept;
When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
take over the character until the player can break the control?
I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
mind-controlled characters?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:23 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:35:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
give the character darkforce powers.
It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
and passages if there is interest.
TokyoMark
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:25 1997
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From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Todd Hanson wrote
<edited>
>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
maybe throw in a small "Mental Suggestion"..... like you feel nothing
unusual or ignore what is happening to you
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
some name ideas:
Revelation
Shepard
Holy Trinity
Holy Ghost
Apostle
Angel
Jericho
Cain
Crucifix
Dove
Retribution
Brimstone
Adam
Eve
Disciple (spelling?)
Father...
Sister...
Brother...
Devotion
Vengence (is Mine, sayeth the Lord)
Convert
David
Goliath
Judas
Revival
Miracle
Cleric
Monk
Paladin
Preacher
> Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
> a scenario idea?
Hmmmmm scenario idea?........ OK How about a group of 20 something
Superpowered friends..... they aren't really Badguys but the aren't
really Heroes either. In fact they behave a lot like C.L.O.W.N..... but
are more interested in having fun than anything else.
Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
of the local Superteam?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:26 1997
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From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
>
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
>
> TokyoMark
I remember that issue..... if you do find it... I at least would love
to see the list...... if for nothing else than to learn the passages
again..... I always thought that was a neat concept.... but never
bothered to look up the actual quotes.
In the same vein.... Anybody out there of a faith other than Christian
that could contribute names or concepts?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:28 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 11:41:15 GMT
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Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
>Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
>of the local Superteam?
Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
men from the sins of the flesh.....
Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
Papal visit.....
Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
very four colour this!)....
One approach might be that used in the Squadron Supreme maxi-series
(yeah, yeah, JLA ripped off by Marvel, but the story was _good_)
where the superheroes take control of government and then use
a mind altering process to force villains etc to be "good" citizens.
This addresses the whole mind rape issue that ripped across the
list some time ago. A scenario based around this had my old group
split in some very odd ways, but it did encourage in-character
debate.
Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
will of God is carried out properly!
There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
control...) and what their agenda is.
>Jerry aka
>Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Stephen McGinness
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:29 1997
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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In a message dated 97-06-23 07:15:14 EDT, badtodd@dacmail.net (Todd Hanson)
writes:
<< Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea? >>
The final episode of Macross Plus used a similar situation. You might want
to take a look at that for another view. This one had to do with a computer
AI being the performer.
Jason
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:30 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:47:23 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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S McGinness wrote:
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
>
> Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
> of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
> and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
> explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
> very four colour this!)....
> There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
> group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
> religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
> determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
> control...) and what their agenda is.
There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
caught in the middle.
Make for a lot of soul-searching, I'd think.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:32 1997
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Message-ID: <33AE7852.50D5@dacmail.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:22 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
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From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:34 1997
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Message-ID: <33AE77D8.1B2B@dacmail.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:19:20 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: Mind Control
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Capt. Spith wrote:
>
> The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
> somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
> player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
> take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
> has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
> excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
> are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
> How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
> mind-controlled characters?
I generally explain to the PC (usually privately) what is going on, and
trust them to roleplay it (with an occasional prodding from me if
necessary). I think I could probably trust 4 out of my 5 players to
roleplay their character being mind controlled (and probably love the
hell out of it at the same time) ;)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
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From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:36 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:13:38 -0400 (EDT)
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> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
>
I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
Crossbreed).
I can't think of to many good names for religous heroes offhand,
except Lazurus (after the man Jesus brought back to life). Maybe
they could name themselves after saints...
Saint Peter - He's called the rock on which the Church is founded,
so maybe he could be a brick.
Saint Thomas Aquinus
Saint Augustine
Saint Frances - known for love of animals, so could have animal
control powers.
A slightly less corny idea would be for them to name themselves
after knights of the round table. Given, this is one of the
most hackneyed and overused ideas in comics, scifi, et al. but
it seems almost appropriate.
>
> --
> Capt. Spith
> Savior of Humanity
> Secular Messiah
>
-Eric, neither secular nor a messiah
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
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> Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
> there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
> goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
> the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
>
> Todd
>
Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
nevermind...
-Eric
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything (was Re: Speed Tricks)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:45:37 -0400
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For those interested in powers of this type, check my Time Manipulation
article at http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/1905/haym12.html
Dave Mattingly
From: flacksd@evron.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:07:23 -0500
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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>2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
>use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
>fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
>can do the characters...
>
At the local Sci-Fi convention I found an action fiquire for a comic called
'Warrior Nun Ariela'. (I am not sure about the nun's name as I don't have
it with me.) This comic is about a group of warrior nuns and magical
priests who fight demons and other villians. I have not seen the comic
but I can tell you what I found out from to toy and people at the
convention.
The warrior nuns and magic priests where started by a valkyre who
convereted to christianity. Ariela (?) was the first warrior nun, centuries
ago. When a current warrior nun shows special power she is given the
name.
Warrior Nun Ariela has a sword of great spiritual power. it does extra
damage to demons, and can be set to do stun only damage (so as not to
hurt potential innocents). She has a cybernetic right arm / hand created
for her after a demon ripped her real one off. This arm has one of the
original crystals given to Ariela by the valkyre. The actual powers of the
arm are not specified but it has some. She also wears 'God Armor'. A
powerfull body armour that can make it's wearer nearly invincible, but at
great risk to their soul (mega side effects / disadvantages). Absolute
power corrupts absolutly.
Other characters listed include Mother Superion and Shotgun Mary.
The Warrior Nuns also have support clergy, religous agents as it were,
and contacts at the Vatican.
I hope this gives you some ideas
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:32:10 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Texas?!?!
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S McGinness wrote:
>
> Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
> >Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
> >of the local Superteam?
>
> Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
> have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
<edit>
>
> Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
> They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
> upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
> tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
> They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
> will of God is carried out properly!
>
<edit>
>
>
> Stephen McGinness
OK I think you missed my point..... I was asking about a different
group. Not the religious group but a gathering of Superpowered
20somethings who are neither Heroes nor Villains..... just interested in
having a fun, and to Hell with Normal Society.
However, I like the teired approach...... I can even see that as a
Mini-Campaign... the rise of a "Fellow" Supergroup just might be the
catalist a team needs to become Heroes of Epic Proportions!
And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:47:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Eric Burns wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
> >
>
> I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
> there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
> themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
> the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
> superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
> Crossbreed).
Well, I DO call myself a _secular_ messiah, now, don't I? Actually,
I run the type of game which is a little more lightheatred overall than
many, and tend to follow my whims when they hit me. The original idea
for the group was inspired by Python's Inquitsition, but my point was to
offer them to the list for their concepts and themes; I actually had
not intended for their names to used as is by anyone else.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
> And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:53:19 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Eric Burns wrote:
> I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
> there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
> themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
> the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
> superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
> Crossbreed).
This sounds like what I am looking for. Could I convince you to give me
a quick overview of who is in Crossbreed and their powers? (or, a
pointer to which issues of Astro City would give me a good feeling for
this team)
Thanks!
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:55:02 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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> Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> nevermind...
>
> -Eric
Actually in most games, since the PC's are the forces of good, the
most likely opposition from a religious standpoint are from th
'fringes'. Most 'mainstream' religions are more tolerant and less
fanatic and would be far less likely to send out paranormals to fight.
Besides, there is always the possibility of offending a player, or at
least stepping on someone's toes when a GM takes a 'mainstream' religion
and sets them up as opposition in a game, so making them a little more
extreme makes the situation a little more comfortable for everyone.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:58:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Eric Burns wrote:
> Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> nevermind...
Maybe 'fringe' was the wrong term. I'm not really basing this on any
established religion or church, but on those little 'christian
coalition' groups that pop up in just about every city. You know the
ones I mean - they appoint themselves our official guardians and proceed
to organize protests, petitions, etc. to shut down or ban anything they
feel is a threat to our morality.
I didn't base this on a 'non-fringe' church group because most
'non-fringe' church groups dont try to force their morals on the rest of
the world (other than their own members of course)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:01:59 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: An Odd one........
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Here's something I'm sure some of you will appreciate....
As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no, I
like drawing.
But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an interesting
situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up with
the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look at
this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
So my question is twofold:
How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume be
bought as a physical limitation?
The Group has agreed to go with the majority from the list on this
one......
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:28:07 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 12:36 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
>groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
>non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
>well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
>then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
>original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
>nevermind...
Many years ago I ran an "All Mutants" campaign (this was long before Mutant
File came out). I had the Roman Catholic church take an official stance
that mutants were the "Children of the Devil" and created a group called
the New Inquistion...
The Original Members of the team were based on the 4 Horesemen of the
Apocalypse (Death, War, Famine, and Pestilence) and they were lead by the
Grand Inquisitor. All of these characters had supernatural origins.
The odd part of this was that a number of "Fringe religous groups" sided
WITH the mutants, just to oppose the "Damned Cath-o-licks and thier
Anti-Christ Pope".
In that campaign the Pope really was the Anti-Christ, but that's a
different story...
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:37:36 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:01 PM 6/23/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an interesting
>situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up with
>the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
>entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look at
>this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
>That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
I have to ask -- exactly what was this travesty of fashion? I'm trying to
imagine a costume so bad it would be worth points /back/. :]
>How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind?
If you're talking real color-blindness, it's infrequent, great (+10 pts.)
Just being fashion-blind would be infrequent, slight.
>And can a costume be bought as a physical limitation?
If it provides such things like OCV/DCV penalties, probably.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:15:53 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> Here's something I'm sure some of you will appreciate....
>
> As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
> called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no,
> I
> like drawing.
>
> But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an
> interesting
> situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up
> with
> the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
> entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look
> at
> this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
> That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
>
> So my question is twofold:
>
> How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume
> be
> bought as a physical limitation?
>
> The Group has agreed to go with the majority from the list on this
> one......
Completly colorblind would freguently come up, but not that much of a
disad.
On the costume: We had a character with one of the most hidious
costumes in one of our games. (purple, light red, with lime green. ech.)
It wasn't much of a limitation in our game, since no disad was taken
with it. He was just made fun of.
The greater the disad, the worse the reaction. A 5 point limitation
would probably just land him on the worst dressed list, comments being
made every so often. Pretty much a role-playing only disad.
If he takes a 20 pointer, then he'll probably get picked on by people
with obscuring attacks, get the fashion police as a hunted etc...
-Mark
p.s. Fashion Police have instant change usable on others, etc...
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:01 PM 6/23/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
>So my question is twofold:
>
>How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume be
>bought as a physical limitation?
I'd call Completely Color-Blind (Achromatic Vision) a 5-point Physical
Limitation; in fact, I've had a couple of characters with that precise
Limitation.
As for a costume being a Physical Limitation, that would depend on what
the costume does. Impairing one's Running, DEX, or other abilities would be
bought-down Characteristics with an OIF. A particularly ugly costume that
looks as though it could be dangerous could be a 5- or 10-point Distinctive
Feature (it's Easily Concealable, but whether it's just Noticed or gets a
Major Reaction depends on just how dangerous it looks).
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Christian Hero Groups
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:47 AM 6/23/97 -0600, Curtis Gibson wrote:
>There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
>I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
>extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
>Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
>(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
>established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
>overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
>Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
>is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
>who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
>does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
>not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
>brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
>caught in the middle.
This is not only a cool idea as written, but either team (or both) could
be quite an interested if the PCs are themselves a Christian group.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:59 AM 6/23/97 -0700, Capt. Spith wrote:
>The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
>somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
>player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
>take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
>has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
>excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
>are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
>How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
>mind-controlled characters?
You're right; it depends on the players. Most of the folks I've played
with are mature enough to "play stupid" when they know something the
characters don't, when the characters are Mind Controlled, and so forth.
(My favorite anecdote along these lines was in a pre-Fantasy Hero game,
where among the other rather odd characters were a werewolf and a bull-man.
A hidden wizard cast a Mental Illusion on the werewolf, who hadn't eaten in
nearly a day, that where the bull-man stood was actually a side of raw beef.
The chaos that ensued had us all giggling for weeks -- you had to be there.)
On the other hand, I know that many other players I've played with would
probably forget about these things; you'd have to explain things the way the
chars would understand them, and trying to get them to play their chars as
Mind Controlled without the chars realizing that they're being Mind
Controlled and trying to snap out of it... well, in these cases it's better
to simply take control of the character. It's also better in these cases,
in fact, to use Mind Control judiciously; the Marilyn Manson scenario would
be too complicated for such a player. (This isn't intended as a put-down
for new, "immature" players; you just don't get into these sophisticated
situations before a player is ready for it, is all.)
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
>2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
>of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
>yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
>theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
>they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
>make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
>them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
>little girl in the hospital??')
Of your three questions, this is the only one I feel really qualified to
handle.
Some ideas which spring to mind:
Awesome Dude = Super-Strong Guy
Chill = Cold Powers
Froggy = Super-Leaper
Hot Stuff = Flame Powers
Jazzy Jerker = Fast-Hitting Speedster
Putty Boy = Shapeshifter
You could also try to take names from popular heavy-metal rock groups (of
which none spring right to mind).
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Woestman <larry@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>
Subject: pre-generated dice roll programs available
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hi!
I was playing around and came up with a couple of programs that generate
sheets of pre-rolled dice rolls. The programs also compute the amount
of body that would be done with that roll according to the Hero rules.
The first program just does 3d6's.
The second program does 4d6's through 14d6's.
I have included sample output from each program below. If you want a
copy of the source for the programs (in C) please send email to me.
Larry Woestman
larry@cv.hp.com
P.S. Please ignore my automatic vacation script. It is requred by my
job, but your email will get through anyway. I am monitoring email
while I am on vacation at home.
3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10,2 10,3 11,3 5,1 11,4 11,4 11,3 15,5 14,5 7,2 14,5
11,3 13,4 9,3 10,3 12,4 11,4 9,2 6,1 18,6 11,3 12,4
8,3 10,3 12,3 9,3 9,3 16,5 4,1 7,2 7,3 16,5 12,3
11,4 10,3 11,3 7,2 12,3 6,3 11,2 14,4 7,2 9,3 12,3
9,2 7,3 7,1 12,3 7,2 12,4 16,5 15,4 14,5 8,3 17,5
16,5 8,2 11,3 14,4 7,1 13,4 8,3 7,2 16,5 9,3 8,3
11,3 16,4 10,3 11,3 12,3 16,4 11,4 13,4 9,2 4,1 14,4
4,1 15,4 9,3 14,4 16,5 13,3 11,3 11,3 16,4 8,2 12,4
12,4 11,3 9,2 10,3 11,3 8,3 11,4 8,3 13,4 12,3 13,4
5,1 6,2 6,2 16,4 10,3 10,3 4,1 15,5 9,3 12,3 10,3
8,2 14,4 12,4 11,3 6,1 14,5 10,3 12,4 4,1 14,3 7,2
12,3 6,2 13,4 9,3 16,5 15,4 10,3 8,3 13,4 9,3 10,3
9,3 14,4 14,4 9,3 10,3 6,2 18,6 16,4 14,4 10,3 13,3
15,5 4,1 14,5 17,5 9,3 10,3 11,3 9,3 11,4 13,4 7,2
10,3 7,3 11,2 7,3 12,3 11,4 5,2 10,2 15,4 15,4 10,3
9,3 13,3 16,5 15,3 13,4 9,2 10,3 10,3 9,3 8,2 8,2
17,5 8,2 11,4 10,3 9,3 11,3 10,3 7,1 9,3 14,4 14,4
13,4 6,1 6,2 7,2 14,4 13,4 10,2 8,2 12,3 10,3 8,3
8,3 11,2 14,3 9,3 9,3 10,3 14,4 15,5 13,4 12,3 9,3
9,2 10,3 11,2 15,5 13,3 13,4 13,3 9,2 8,2 12,4 12,3
10,3 13,4 9,2 11,4 14,4 13,3 10,3 7,3 11,4 9,3 11,2
6,2 12,3 6,2 12,3 6,1 8,2 10,3 16,4 12,3 16,4 6,2
9,3 11,3 9,2 12,3 9,2 9,3 12,3 12,4 6,2 14,5 3,0
8,2 12,3 12,4 7,1 11,3 12,3 8,2 11,3 16,5 8,2 13,3
12,4 7,1 14,4 9,3 15,5 12,3 15,5 7,1 11,3 14,4 6,2
10,2 9,3 10,3 10,3 8,2 11,3 12,4 13,4 10,4 13,4 9,3
13,4 10,3 9,3 7,1 8,2 11,3 11,2 11,3 10,3 10,3 10,3
14,3 10,3 5,2 10,2 7,1 9,3 9,2 7,2 17,5 9,2 11,3
17,5 7,2 12,3 8,2 7,2 12,4 10,3 10,2 11,3 14,4 13,3
11,3 15,4 13,4 10,3 13,4 11,3 12,3 11,3 8,3 13,4 8,3
11,4 8,2 13,3 12,3 11,3 6,1 7,2 11,3 9,3 8,3 9,2
10,4 9,3 8,2 14,3 10,3 10,3 7,2 13,3 8,3 12,3 10,3
12,3 12,3 9,2 13,4 9,2 9,2 8,2 9,3 5,1 13,3 14,4
11,4 10,3 12,4 12,4 16,5 10,2 9,2 9,2 9,3 11,3 8,3
11,3 10,2 11,3 10,3 12,4 5,1 7,2 12,3 9,2 11,3 12,3
7,3 12,3 15,5 10,3 9,3 9,3 11,2 15,5 13,4 16,4 10,4
12,4 8,2 11,3 13,4 9,3 17,5 3,0 12,3 9,3 10,3 8,2
9,2 11,3 10,3 11,3 15,4 9,3 8,2 6,2 11,3 11,2 6,2
12,3 7,2 3,0 13,4 11,3 12,4 12,3 13,4 6,2 15,4 4,1
11,3 5,2 15,5 10,3 15,4 11,3 8,2 11,4 14,4 9,3 10,3
12,3 8,3 9,3 7,1 11,3 11,4 10,4 9,3 10,3 8,2 8,2
9,3 9,3 8,2 8,3 10,3 9,2 10,4 8,2 13,4 15,4 14,5
12,3 9,3 8,2 12,3 9,2 10,2 6,3 14,4 4,1 13,3 9,2
9,2 16,5 17,5 10,2 13,3 15,4 13,4 11,4 12,4 10,3 9,2
6,2 8,2 12,4 13,4 11,3 7,2 13,4 12,4 11,3 7,2 10,3
12,3 9,2 7,2 15,4 12,4 8,2 7,2 11,2 12,4 7,2 4,1
9,3 12,3 8,2 5,1 6,2 14,4 9,3 14,5 10,3 14,3 9,3
13,4 8,2 6,1 10,3 8,3 13,4 10,3 12,3 4,1 13,4 6,2
8,2 8,3 11,3 11,3 8,2 7,3 10,4 14,5 13,4 10,3 13,3
11,4 11,2 11,4 12,3 10,3 14,4 6,1 4,1 11,3 8,2 13,4
14,4 9,3 12,3 13,3 11,3 11,4 5,1 14,4 10,3 9,2 13,4
9,3 13,3 7,1 11,3 11,4 13,4 7,3 11,3 11,3 12,3 5,1
9,3 10,3 10,3 7,2 8,3 5,2 15,4 11,3 15,5 6,3 9,2
6,2 11,2 13,4 16,4 5,1 11,3 10,3 17,5 4,1 7,2 15,4
9,3 15,4 10,2 10,3 14,4 8,2 8,2 8,3 14,4 12,3 6,2
6,1 7,2 11,3 12,3 11,3 12,3 10,3 10,2 14,4 10,2 15,4
5,1 13,3 10,3 7,2 6,3 14,4 12,3 15,4 6,1 9,3 6,2
7,3 10,2 14,3 12,3 18,6 7,2 11,3 12,3 12,3 10,2 10,3
9,3 12,3 6,2 4,1 10,3 12,4 4,1 8,2 13,4 15,4 11,3
7,2 9,3 14,4 8,3 11,3 9,2 10,3 10,3 8,3 10,3 7,1
4d6 5d6 6d6 7d6 8d6 9d6 10d6 11d6 12d6 13d6 14d6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9,2 23,6 19,5 19,6 31,8 36,9 30,9 47,13 38,12 48,14 60,18
18,5 17,5 11,3 20,6 31,9 35,11 42,13 34,10 44,13 42,10 47,12
16,4 19,5 17,6 22,7 28,8 23,6 36,9 47,12 45,13 46,11 54,14
14,4 16,4 18,5 26,9 26,7 25,7 32,9 48,13 35,11 46,13 44,13
14,3 17,5 20,6 30,9 24,7 35,9 36,9 42,12 46,13 40,12 45,14
12,4 13,5 20,5 29,8 26,7 32,8 36,8 40,11 44,14 51,15 37,10
17,5 18,4 25,8 26,8 27,8 31,8 47,13 45,13 45,12 46,12 66,19
20,5 23,6 29,8 27,8 22,6 34,11 45,13 38,11 41,12 52,16 33,9
11,3 15,5 27,8 18,5 30,9 31,10 40,11 37,11 54,16 53,17 60,18
12,3 20,6 23,7 25,7 18,6 33,10 40,11 35,10 35,11 44,13 51,15
9,2 13,4 26,7 20,5 26,9 37,12 41,11 40,10 47,16 51,14 38,11
13,4 19,5 24,8 31,10 23,7 40,12 28,8 41,14 39,11 41,12 40,10
8,2 21,6 27,8 29,7 21,5 39,11 38,10 42,10 40,13 40,13 52,13
19,5 12,4 26,7 14,3 33,11 44,11 30,10 41,13 34,11 40,10 49,15
20,6 15,4 19,5 28,7 30,8 26,8 37,10 37,8 48,13 48,13 54,15
16,4 15,5 23,6 17,7 25,7 30,8 34,9 42,11 39,11 49,13 56,16
19,5 19,6 23,7 30,10 21,5 25,7 28,9 29,7 28,8 36,11 52,16
14,3 20,5 26,7 33,10 31,9 22,5 36,9 42,11 45,12 49,16 43,12
19,5 22,6 18,5 27,8 22,6 25,9 31,9 46,14 49,13 50,14 47,14
11,3 17,5 23,7 35,11 35,9 27,8 31,8 39,10 40,14 51,16 47,13
21,6 23,6 17,6 19,5 27,8 33,10 30,9 41,12 52,15 41,11 46,13
9,3 19,5 18,6 27,8 27,6 29,8 29,10 35,10 39,11 43,12 43,14
16,5 13,4 26,7 25,9 16,5 32,9 29,8 34,10 52,15 49,14 49,11
12,3 21,6 17,5 24,8 30,8 35,10 43,11 42,12 43,12 43,13 42,12
11,4 14,4 22,7 29,9 29,9 36,10 38,11 36,12 52,15 47,13 44,13
17,4 14,5 14,5 22,6 28,9 31,9 38,12 31,9 37,11 41,10 44,14
18,5 13,5 15,3 25,8 28,9 27,8 33,10 42,13 49,14 43,9 50,14
16,4 16,3 24,7 21,6 26,8 33,10 38,12 31,9 39,11 50,15 51,14
20,5 19,6 28,7 21,5 19,5 42,11 42,12 32,9 47,15 44,12 47,12
11,3 21,6 21,7 25,7 23,7 28,8 27,6 47,14 34,9 51,16 41,11
18,5 12,3 20,5 19,5 27,7 35,10 35,11 46,13 34,11 42,11 58,17
14,3 18,6 20,6 17,6 25,8 32,9 35,9 39,12 41,12 43,11 51,13
13,4 21,5 20,7 20,6 39,11 31,9 34,8 48,13 42,12 44,13 61,17
11,3 18,5 22,8 23,7 21,6 40,11 31,8 42,12 44,13 46,14 47,13
14,4 22,7 18,6 23,8 17,6 22,6 35,11 29,7 39,10 47,13 61,18
14,4 21,6 24,7 21,6 33,10 35,11 48,15 39,12 39,12 52,15 53,14
13,3 24,7 20,6 32,9 25,7 29,8 38,10 43,13 39,11 39,11 39,13
15,3 22,6 22,6 19,5 36,9 31,8 40,12 46,14 43,11 50,12 51,14
14,4 19,5 17,5 26,7 29,7 37,10 40,12 32,11 42,10 46,14 53,14
23,7 11,2 20,5 25,8 25,8 39,11 36,9 33,9 45,11 44,12 53,14
12,3 17,5 17,5 32,8 29,8 38,9 37,12 40,11 34,10 44,13 46,12
12,3 17,5 25,7 23,6 27,7 23,8 34,13 48,15 32,9 48,13 43,12
15,5 20,6 25,7 25,8 35,9 37,11 37,12 33,9 54,15 43,12 48,12
18,5 18,5 18,6 19,6 34,8 35,10 45,14 43,13 40,11 41,10 41,13
15,4 23,6 15,4 29,9 26,7 28,7 38,11 38,10 34,10 53,15 41,11
14,4 18,5 21,4 26,7 21,6 30,10 39,12 43,11 38,9 45,11 54,15
16,5 17,5 19,6 25,6 25,9 26,8 41,13 36,12 43,13 43,11 57,16
12,3 11,5 24,7 32,9 24,7 36,11 38,12 28,8 44,13 34,9 56,17
17,5 18,6 18,5 18,4 18,4 39,10 39,9 40,12 38,10 51,15 38,10
15,4 16,3 22,6 18,5 27,7 28,7 41,12 39,10 42,11 47,15 57,17
14,4 21,7 19,6 23,8 27,8 24,6 30,10 40,12 31,9 43,13 45,14
13,3 23,8 22,7 24,8 26,7 28,8 34,10 31,8 46,12 35,10 47,16
16,5 13,3 19,5 29,9 20,6 32,10 29,8 35,9 48,14 43,13 57,15
13,4 22,7 19,6 28,7 32,8 34,10 40,11 45,15 48,12 42,12 52,13
15,5 15,4 25,7 30,8 30,8 26,6 28,9 44,13 43,12 49,13 51,16
12,4 14,4 21,7 22,5 20,6 25,8 32,8 32,9 43,12 53,14 46,13
23,7 19,6 21,6 24,7 33,9 28,8 38,10 47,15 38,11 55,16 51,15
14,4 23,6 28,8 20,6 28,8 31,9 40,12 36,10 40,12 45,13 63,17
13,3 22,5 22,5 22,6 22,6 33,9 38,11 37,11 45,13 47,12 51,15
14,5 21,6 27,8 30,9 27,8 29,8 34,11 33,9 39,10 45,12 48,12
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:45:27 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Newsgroups: october.hero
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Prometheus Corp.
Lines: 15
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as7s50.erols.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as7s50.erols.com
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
herolist wrote:
>
>
> >2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> >use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> >fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> >can do the characters...
>
> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League with
> the Devil"... sorry...
What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:53:47 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> At 12:36 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
> >Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> >groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> >non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> >well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> >then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> >original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> >nevermind...
>
> Many years ago I ran an "All Mutants" campaign (this was long before Mutant
> File came out). I had the Roman Catholic church take an official stance
> that mutants were the "Children of the Devil" and created a group called
> the New Inquistion...
>
Hm, what did you base THAT stance on?
> The Original Members of the team were based on the 4 Horesemen of the
> Apocalypse (Death, War, Famine, and Pestilence) and they were lead by the
> Grand Inquisitor. All of these characters had supernatural origins.
Were they mutants?
>
> The odd part of this was that a number of "Fringe religous groups" sided
> WITH the mutants, just to oppose the "Damned Cath-o-licks and thier
> Anti-Christ Pope".
Not odd at all, good use of real world "grey" morality.
>
> In that campaign the Pope really was the Anti-Christ, but that's a
> different story...
Ah, that explains it. I thought you were slagging the Pope.
We haven't had racist xenophobic Popes in a while.
(Sexist maybe, seperate thread.)
Now, racist xenophobic fringe Southern "Christian" groups are way too common.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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herolist wrote:
>
> And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!!
You have our symphony. No wait, that's not quite right...
> LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> always from Texas?
Maybe 'cause you guys actually named a town Waco.
(Keep telling us it's pronounced Way-ko. Yeah, right.)
> Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> rest of the country?
Yup. Try any state starting with the letters A through Z, among others.
> ..... How come you never hear about the
> Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
I can only assume you haven't been paying attention.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:07:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org
> Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
What, you don't like Bull-Wizards? Which edition stats are you using?
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Reply-To: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea <Longish>
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I thought I'd combine Curtis's (Mhoram) scenario ideas with some
of Jerry's (Puzzleboy) names;
> Something I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce
> this kind of extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the
> perceptions of Christians and Christian groups, and let them run
> rampant over things (as described above).
But, never forget that they are people, too: they haven't truly
been brainwashed (no matter what some people may say). They have as much
right as anyone to choose what they'll believe. Smart PC's will confront
these type of characters with the implicit contradictions between their
beliefs and their actions. If played correctly, this scenario can make
for some very philosophical role-playing.
Without further ado, here's an example of what I think of as a
"realistic extremist." (Ideas stolen from: Marvel's Punisher and Paladin
characters, and Samuel Jackson's character in "Pulp Fiction")
Paladin ("Have Bible, Will Travel");
Paladin spent much of his life earning a feared rep as a mercenary
and hitman. That is, until his mid-life crisis. After a particularly bad
gig, where he was forced to kill a number of innocent people, Paladin put
away his gun, picked up a bible, and began to "walk the earth"; travelling
the country, using his skills to help people in need. Eventually, he
settled down, got married, and became a preacher. His idyllic life was
shattered when his wife and young child were killed by some DEMON
cultists. He prayed for an answer, and he believes he recieved one.
Paladin is a man in his late 40's. He believes that God himself
has transformed him into his instrument of divine retribution. He now
"walks the earth" again, this time using his guns and considerable
mercenary skills to carry out "God's divine will." He can be found in any
campaign city, performing acts of terrorism for local christian extremist
groups (i.e., bombing abortion clinics or gay bars). He believes he is
totally in the right, and if confronted, can usually justify his actions
with at least three biblical quotes.
Unfortunately, Paladin is not easily labeled: he is not evil
(though he has done evil deeds). He is convinced that what he is doing is
"for the good of God's children." If confronted with the true source of
his convictions (the death of his wife and child), he may very well snap.
His beliefs are all that have allowed him to survive his grief: without
them, he will be lost.
> After a rivalry between them and PCs are established, introduce a new
> group, also with Christian/Religous overtones, but these are all the
> "softer" side. A healer, a philospher Martial Artist who found his
> truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that is a feature of your
> campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people who believe in a lot
> of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team does, but only if
> those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE not forcing your
> views, "however right they may be", onto someone else) brings them into
> conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow) caught in the
> middle.
I've done the same thing IMC with Disciple (a character mentioned
in the writeup of Angstrom in Champions Presents #1). They say that
basically he's Defender with a religious theme. That wasn't much a help
for me, so I kept the name and threw out the rest. (Ideas stolen from:
Batman comics, almost any of those Kickboxer/Street Fighter movies,
Ozymandias from The Watchmen, and the Confessor from Astro City)
Disciple ("Snatch the wafer from my hand, my son.");
When Disciple was very young, his father was killed while
competing in the Valhalla Mountain tournament. He spent much of his
adolencence seeking the greatest instructors, so that one day he could
enter the tournament and gain his revenge. As he surpassed his
instructors, he moved on, seeking greater masters so he could continue his
training. Soon he was spending more time looking for teachers than
actually learning, and he had become master of multiple fighting styles.
As part of his education, Disciple would spend a lot of time
reading about great warriors throughout history. After much study, he
noticed certain similarities in the myths of several nations: stories of a
great warrior and philospher who had earned immortality by defeating a
horrible monster. He traced these myths, following them from their point
of origin somewhere in Europe, across Asia, to South America. From there,
the tale blended with history. Spanish missionaries reported converting a
wizend old man, and re-christening him Peter.
Disciple traced Peter to America, where he moved in the 20's. He
finally tracked the warrior to New York, where he was known as St.Peter, a
crazy fanatical bum. Disciple took him in, and now he serves as his
teacher.
Of course, Disciple really has no proof that St.Peter is who he
thinks he is. Many of the exercises St.Peter puts him through (such as
Make Me Breakfast, and Do My Laundry) seem ridiculous. St.Peter also
makes Disciple study the bible, and makes him go into the street to help
unfortunates. However, Disciple is still eager to learn, and has made
St.Peter's belief's his own.
The Disciple now acts as a costumed crimefighter with a religious
theme. He's good samaritan, protector of the weak, and christian soldier
all rolled into one. He's very competitive, and this carries over into
his secualr life. He's perfectly willing spar while debating philosphy.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "J&JN" == Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET> writes:
J&JN> As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
J&JN> called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no,
J&JN> I like drawing.
Good for you. I stopped drawing a few years ago and as a result my
technique has gone to crap, and I do not have the time now to relearn all
that I have forgotten, and I truely regret it these days.
[...]
J&JN> Not to mention that the entire costume was totally impractical.
Since when have superhero outfits been practical? :)
[...]
J&JN> How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind?
Realistically, it is not worth much because it is not that limiting. Even
"black and white" vision will have varying levels of grey, and with a
little practice the combination of grey levels and luminescence can
substitute for differentiation of "color". Additionally, where it is
critical that colors not be confused, like traffic signals, they are
arranged in standard patterns, so that even if one cannot distinguish red
from green -- the most common form of color blindness -- one can
distinguish a "stop" light from a "go" light by the luminescence.
Call it a 5 point disadvantage and hit him with it once in a blue moon. :)
J&JN> And can a costume be bought as a physical limitation?
Ummm... probably not. It might be worth a Distinctive Feature, though.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:44:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho,
Indeed they do not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to continue
spreading the following important information, first provided by Alan
Lustiger:
THE "STATE" OF IDAHO: THE CASE FOR OPEN DEBATE
----------------------------------------------
If you would ask any schoolchild how many states there are in the
United States, you will get the same answer: 50. Fifty states
in the Union. It is simply an accepted "fact." If you would
disagree with this supposed "fact," you would be branded insane
or worse.
However, mounting evidence shows that there are in fact only 49
states in the US, and the "state" of Idaho is a baseless myth.
We have been trying to distribute and publish this information
for over *two years*, but our scholarship has not been given
any respect. We have been censored, vilified, ridiculed and
spat upon by the "traditional" geographers and historians, but
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!
All we ask is that the existence of the state of Idaho be debated,
as every other historical and geographic "fact" can be debated.
Time after time, our opponents have refused to debate us on the
FACTS. This alone should tell you something about the people who
support the "existence" of this "43rd state."
Please read the following evidence VERY CAREFULLY, and you will be
astonished at the veracity of our cause.
THE POPULATION MYTH
Do you know anybody from Idaho? Do you know anybody *who knows
anybody* from Idaho? According to the 1990 "census," there are
over one million (1,000,000, or 1 x 10^6) people living in
Idaho. But if there are so many Idahoers, where are they?
Some people have come forward and claimed that they were born
and raised in "Idaho." But *every single person* who made this
claim have been shown to be frauds and charlatans. These "Idahoan
wannabes" are invariably inconsistent with each other about the
size (in square miles or square kilometers) of "Idaho," about
various town and village names, and even about the names
of "Idaho's mighty rivers."
THE SIZE FARCE
According to traditional geographic sources (created entirely
by people who believe in the existence of Idaho, and probably
the Tooth Fairy, also) the "State" of Idaho is more than twice
the size of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island,
Connecticut and Massachusetts *combined.* Isn't it strange that
a state with such vast land resources has so few people? And
even of you look at a map (created by the Idaho-centric
cartographers) the "State" of "Idaho" is dwarfed by its much
larger neighbor, Montana.
SATELLITE EVIDENCE
Recently declassified weather satellite information, showing
the entire continental United States, shows absolutely *no
evidence* that there is any state where "Idaho" is supposedly
located. Noted experts in the field of interpreting these
pictures unanimously agree that, from outer space, it is
impossible to determine the borders of this elusive "state."
Yet meteorologists and cartographers routinely overlay
these satellite pictures with the outline of states that
would seem to indicate Idaho's existence.
PHOTOGRAPHIC "EVIDENCE"
Many people, skeptical of the clear evidence that Idaho
does not and never did exist, point to photographs that they've
seen in encyclopedias and postcards seeming to show parts of the
state of Idaho.
It is important to note that a photograph without a caption
is often meaningless. A picture of people in boats surrounded
by mountains could have been taken in Colorado or Nevada,
but when the holy *caption* says that this is a picture of
the "Salmon River" in "Idaho," gullible readers tend to
swallow this information whole *without any further examination.*
We have examined literally hundreds of these "photographs," and
the ones that are not outright fakes are all clearly taken in
other parts of the nation.
ASK THE JAPANESE
It is well known that Americans are woefully ignorant about
geography, which is one reason why it is so easy to fake an
entire state here. Not surprisingly, most of the effort to
create the illusion of Idaho has been expended in the USA.
But if you would ask a typical Japanese or French schoolchild
about what he/she knows about Idaho, you will usually get a
blank stare. People who are much better at geography than
Americans have never heard of this "great state."
THE POTATO MYTH
Any given supermarket in the United States has sacks of potatoes
clearly marked "Idaho Potatoes." People make the assumption, that
when they are buying these potatoes, that they were *grown* in
the "state" of "Idaho."
Actually, "Idaho" is a type of potato, just like "McIntosh" is
a type of apple. The FACT is that *many* states have potato crops,
as well as foreign countries, and potatoes that say "Idaho" on
them are no more from Idaho than Baltimore Orioles all come
from Maryland.
SO, WHAT'S THERE?
Nothing. THERE IS NOTHING THERE. We have been so brainwashed
by the traditional mapmaking community to think that if Idaho
doesn't exist, then there must be some sort of vacuum there
instead. This is nonsense.
The very shapes and positions of the states, and indeed of
every nation on the planet, is only known through "information"
provided by cartographers. It is akin to asking "if Santa's
house isn't at the North Pole, then what's there instead?"
THE CARTOGRAPHER CONSPIRACY
The *only evidence* that there is a state called Idaho comes from
maps. Everybody has maps, in almanacs, in encyclopedias, and
on the walls of every elementary school classroom in America.
Astonishingly, *over 99%* of all maps are created by *cartographers!*
If any clearly defined set of people would control any other
important industry to that degree, everybody would be up in arms
about the undue influence given to a meager few. However, for
some reason, Cartographers are immune to such criticism. Any
mention about the Cartographer influence over the mapmaking
industry (and, as a natural extension, OUR VERY THOUGHTS!) is
dismissed as "lunacy."
As an indication of how insidious is this influence, just think:
have you ever questioned a map? Maps, being graphical objects,
require much less effort to assimilate into our very psyches.
Behavioral studies show that people can much more readily understand
maps than printed descriptions of geographical areas; in fact,
the images on maps tend to go directly into the subconsciousness
of Man (Homo Sapiens) without the critical thinking that accompanies
reading. In a very real way, Cartographers are the *real* Thought
Police.
But they do not work in a vacuum. There are much too few of them
to do their real damage unaided. Mapmakers have conspired with the
editors of almanacs and encyclopedias to create a fantastic illusion
of space where there is none, people where there aren't any, and
ski resorts where none exist.
ONLY THE BEGINNING
This is only the tip of the iceberg. We have much more material
on this conspiracy, and we have yet to uncover one iota of evidence
that Idaho has ever existed. All of the so-called "evidence" is
a mixture of falsifications, coersions, lies and exaggerations.
The Cartographers would like nothing better than to silence us.
If you do not see any more postings on this subject, then you
have clear evidence that their Conspiracy of Silence on Idaho
has succeeded, and that Freedom of Speech has been curtailed by
the Cartographical Thought Police.
What can you do? All we ask is that you be open minded. Of course,
you cannot trust any of the second-hand evidence that you would
find in libraries, maps (!), airline schedules or street signs.
All you can trust is what we have written here. We are confident
that once you evaluate all of the valid evidence, you will be
angered by this conspiracy, and motivated to do something about
the scum who perpetated this hoax.
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:27:00 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
>> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
>> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
with
>> the Devil"... sorry...
>
>What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
>and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>
I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
feel free to ignore it...
Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
brand of "right".
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 0:04:41 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
> with
> >> the Devil"... sorry...
> >
> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>
> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
> near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
> allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
> just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
> feel free to ignore it...
> Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
> take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
> brand of "right".
As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
(before anyone doubts my credentials) trained as a lay minister (or
exhorter, as the technical term goes), first:
Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
groups out there as there are Protestant organizations... For every church
someone has seen in their home town, there's probably a "normal" fundamentalist
denomination. So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
Jim Bakker was "Assemblies of God" (in fact, my father went to Bible College
with him, says he was a great minister till he met that "witch") until they
stripped him of his papers long before the scandal - his ministry was too
outspoken and charismatic for them [oh, that's the great break in the
Pentecostal movement - Pentecostals vs. Charismatics], and Jerry Swaggart
was Assembly of God the whole way through, up until the Louisiana officers
seized his ministry and dropped his papers for misconduct.
Now, note that these three men were all different denominations - in fact,
Mr. Falwell is technically Baptist with Holiness influence, not Pentecostal.
Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
My grandfather would give birth to a calf before being lumped with a Baptist
on any issue (for those who don't understand English, that's "have a cow").
Donald McKinney
"Fundamentalist Pentecostal" Gaming Convention Chairman
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:03:26 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Travesty (a little long)
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OK here's a look at that Char I spoke of earlier....
While I'm thinking of it..... we decided to go with the 5pt PhysLim for
totally colorblind....
Anyway-----
Travesty is your basic "Peak of Human Abilty" Crimefighter....he uses a
few gadgets like a StunPistol.... a swingline.... basic Batman stuff.
Now we get to "The Costume" (shudder)
the main suit is a body stocking (standard Superhero wear) that is
Prison/ConstructionCone Orange (ok nothing too bad so far)
the mask or cowl is a lovely Peagreen with dark purple stripes the eye
lenses are bright primary blue (anybody feeling queezy?) and is tied at
the back of the head.... the ties reaching all the way to the ground
(tripping hazard & and easily grabbed)
on top of this we have an oversized Swashbucklers hat in Yellow ochre
with a neon pink band, the floppy brim of this hat extends out past the
shoulders while the turquoise plume sticks straight up and is almost 3
feet long (everyone OK?)
the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
(approx 15feet long and at least 9feet wide)
the trunks, gloves and boots (also shiney vinyl) are pastel pink with
straps and belts of varied colors (hypnotic isn't it?) the cuffs on the
boots and gloves are so large that a small dog (Benji, Tbone, Spuds)
could ride comfortably..... the boots are supposedd to be thigh high ans
will some times stay there but ususally the fall down around the
ankles.... the gloves have no set place of rest but make a nice flapping
noise whenever a gesture is made
finally we get to the Utilitybelt...... flat balck (he messed up trying
to draw in some details) about the diameter of a hula-hoop this belt
rests on the hip opposite the one for the pistol holster..... the other
side rests somewhere above the knee........ the hoster and accompyning
belt are bright candyapple red.... the pistol is ivory.... this belt
hangs in the same manor as the Utilitybelt.... the pistol has a cable
that connects it to a small powerpack on the utility belt and a cable
connecting it to a clasp around the right wrist..... the pistol is
holstered on the leftside of the body
oh yeah... the part of the face not covered by the mask is bubblegum
pink
I told you it was UGLY.... and the player wants to go with it now....
it's become part of the concept..... I've even agrred to draw this
thing.... without changing anything just refining a crude work
Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
some objective opinions and go with the consensus
Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--FoxBat's Best Friend......... Join us, join us!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:10:18 -0400
X-Sender: nez@pop3.thepoint.net
From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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In my play group we have reservist characters, back up characters in case
your regular character is unavailable. Well, since a few weren't being used,
just to get the characters a bit more background, I ran a 'reserversist game.'.
Two of the reservists the players had made were of interest to this thread.
One was Hallelujah. She had all light based powers, and some healing, and
believed herself to be an angel. Actually she was a mutation of sorts, but
she didn't know that, and neither did anyone else. As an angel, she placed
herself somewhat above morality, and as the two game series ran, the player
realized she had created more of a villian than a hero.
By odd coincidence, there was another player who had the same realization
about his character. A gargoyle built into a catholic cathedrel, he was
somehow given enlightenment, and learned the ways of the world by listening
in at the church. Until very recently all his learnings were from church.
The player, without putting it all together, had taken "Lives in a black and
white world" and "Berserk at evil" as disads.
During this 'reservist game they were to investigate a blackout in LA, that
was apparently paranormal. During the blackout they saw some looters. The
gargoyle (named AHHGG), went berserk. Before the majority of players were
aware what was going on, both Ahhhg, and Glory had killed three looters.
Before the game was over, both characters reached some agreements, and
became a team. Due to the nature of the scenario, they took the existence of
certain things as a sing from God that the age of technology was at an end,
and that all electricity was to be destroyed. They formed Hallelugah and the
Glory Warriors, dedicated to returning the world to the ways of God.
They are formidable villians, and both players agree there was no
other logical outcome.
Anyone interested in write ups of these characters, let me know.
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:19:59 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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Anyone that lives in Idaho, and is not from there, soon leaves. :)
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:20:30 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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Oh, and Idaho has neonazis and Mormons. That's enough, eh?
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: Organi[zs]ation? Boy, do you have the wron
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:54:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
Priority: normal
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> I told you it was UGLY....
That you did...
> Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
> possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
> some objective opinions and go with the consensus
>
> Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
> limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
How about advantages for when the villians fall all over themselves
laughing? Or when they stop to gape at the costume? :)
--M
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. ***
"Were you always this stupid--or did you take lessons?"
"I took lessons!" --_The Long Kiss Goodnight_
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 09:05:07 GMT
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Don McKinney <dmckinne@com.csc.csci>
>As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
>church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
Hi Don,
I may have been partly responsible for this as it was me who posted
the actions of a group that I labelled fundamentally Christian. I
am a practising Catholic and coming from the West of Scotland I have
been discriminated against due to my religion. I am sensitive to
these issues. honest!
>Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
>too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
>groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
>of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Unfortunately stereotyping and using the most easily identifiable
characteristic of a very large group is a norm in media communications.
It is often frustrating for people who have been placed in these groups
but it _is_ useful for people writing in the paper, _and_ for GM's who
want their players to pick up a lot of assumed information with as few
words of intro as possible....
>Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
>groups out there as there are Protestant organizations... For every church
>someone has seen in their home town, there's probably a "normal" fundamentalist
>denomination. So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
>Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
>government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
I think this is where the loose use of language comes in. I think that
there is an implied "extreme" whenever the term fundamentalist Christian
is used in game terms. If they aren't extreme then they wont actually be
much fun as a villain group. just like most supervillains there must
be something they take to the extreme.
>Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
>same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
>groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
>and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
Well put. But if we are to see one of these groups in a supers game
which of them do you think we'll see. The quiet ones will not be
there, the vocally accepting will be part of the endgame, but the
ones who shout out against the heroes are the ones that will provide
the players with a challenge and so the ones the GM is most
likely to highlight.
>Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
>of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
>this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
And all drug dealers are similar? :-). You say drug baron and we all get
a lump of information because of the stereotypes grown up around the
phrase. I don't think most people are here to slag off any particular
religion but I do think that stereotypes are useful, even when they
are the abortion hating, contraception detesting, brainwashed Catholic
sterotypes with nuns and priests in full flow!!!
>Donald McKinney
>"Fundamentalist Pentecostal" Gaming Convention Chairman
And here is where you blast some of the conventions about Christians,
the "they all hate gamers" convention anyway. I think it would be
easier for us as Christians if some of our fellows did not run
around trying to ban gaming!!!
Anyway, I think you would have a good input to all of this stuff
and your background should give you the ability to explore issues
that are important to your faith. i do.
Stephen
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:17:09 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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There was a bunch of extremist nutso super types a bit like this in a
later run of Elementals.
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:57:49 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Belief diversity in groups...
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The thread(s) about the Christian adventure/groups has got me to
thinking and wondering.... (scary thought there)
What kind of Belief diversity do the groups that you play in/have played
in have. And what kind of effect does that have on the group, the
adventures and the adventure choices for the GM.
I've played in many different dynamics, and have found that the more
"basically similar" the outlook of the players, the greater the
diversity of plots available. as an example: I have a tendancy to run
philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
and GOOD and EVIL.
It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
If anyone wants to discuss religious ideas over private E-mail I'd be
happy to, but I figured to keep it off the list. 8)
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:31:07 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 12:04 AM 6/24/97 CDT, Don McKinney wrote:
>> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment
(Pentecostal
>> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would
absolutely not
>> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
>> with
>> >> the Devil"... sorry...
>> >
>> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts
from God
>> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>>
>> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
>> near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
>> allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
>> just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
>> feel free to ignore it...
>> Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
>> take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
>> brand of "right".
>
>As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
>church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
>(before anyone doubts my credentials) trained as a lay minister (or
>exhorter, as the technical term goes), first:
>
>Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
>too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
>groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
>of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
I'm familiar with are...
>
>Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
>of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
>this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
>
I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
grant me the same...
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:08:07 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Earl Kwallek wrote:
>
> Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
> I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
> I'm familiar with are...
>
> >
> >Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
> >of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
> >this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
> >
>
> I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
> support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
> grant me the same...
Umm... guys? I think you're taking this beyond the purposes of this
list. If you want to argue over religion please do it in email.
My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
(another) religious war.
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 9:28:55 CDT
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> Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
> I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
> I'm familiar with are...
Ok. First, what Pentecostal denomination was your church a member of?
Or, was it an independent church? I've seen all sorts of "bible"
interpretations in "independent" or "non-denominational" churches.
Like the minister who was offended by my "New International Version"
bible - I'll quote here, and this is definitely in support of your
stereotype:
"If the King James Version was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough
for me..."
Sigh. I am always astounded at the uneducated ministers who do this stuff...
> I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
> support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
> grant me the same...
Oh, come on; I'll do some other "Christian" stereotypes:
Methodist Man: Slow and boring, normally gets beat because he uses
the same tactics over and over again.
Presbyterian Lad: Insists on taking a vote for the next combat move.
Adventist Girl: I'd save you, but if God wanted you saved, he'd do
it himself.
Episcopal Woman: That's right, even women are allowed to save people
now...
et al...
And about Fundamentalists seizing control of America - even if they did for
just a moment, they would just start arguing over it. No worries here
(I've attended a National Association of Evangelical Churches conference,
and trust me, it isn't happening...)
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:30:25 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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At 02:03 AM 6/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>OK here's a look at that Char I spoke of earlier....
(*suppressing nausea) Good lord, I'm sorry I asked. :]
>the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
>interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
>does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
>metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
>to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
Yes, because if it was, it would undoubtedly strangle him in defense of
itself and the world. ;]
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 9:32:01 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
> designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
> bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
> (another) religious war.
Crusade, crusade... Besides, we Fundamentalists are supposed to make a
lot of noise and be obnoxious, apparently.
Honestly, though. As a GM, I've had Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists,
Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans and EVEN one
declared Budist (he worshipped "Bud", apparently). Needless to say, I
avoid religious plotlines, except I've had bad guys hold a Mormon conference
hostage once...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:50:51 -0400
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In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
character.
I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
reduced by range EB.
Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
Dave Mattingly
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 11:36:54 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com>
cc: <champ-l@omg.org>
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On 06/23/1997 06:51 PM, Michael Surbrook (susano@access.digex.net) Said:
>Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
>it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
>Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
This is getting cruel, i mean, our Wizards haven't even played ONE game
as th Wizards, and local media is already saying the uniforms suck, and
now this.
What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
.oooO |
( ) Oooo. | David A. Fair
\ ( ( ) | SDS International
\_) ) / | dfair@sdslink.com
(_/ |
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 15:40:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in group
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Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@net.apeleon>
>philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
>in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
>and GOOD and EVIL.
This is along the lines of what I was saying before. We tend to use
words that will convey a whole range of images and suppositions. The
use of the words may no longer be strictly accurate but they are often
very useful. They work best when everyone is of the same mindset.
>It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
Exactly!
>Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
>it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
That sort of thing _never_ happens on this list! :-)
>-Mhoram
Stephen
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in group
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:46:26 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> >philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
> >in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
> >and GOOD and EVIL.
>
> This is along the lines of what I was saying before. We tend to use
> words that will convey a whole range of images and suppositions. The
> use of the words may no longer be strictly accurate but they are often
> very useful. They work best when everyone is of the same mindset.
Remember that many religious view certain things as always EVIL - wanton
destruction of society and mass death, for example; often, discrimination
against one or more groups (I had Quakers leading the protests against
the "paranormal regulatory act" plotline, and played similar to their
historical opposition to slavery in the US)...
> >It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
Sometimes you want to - that kind of stuff makes for the best red herrings.
Our Baptist and Catholic players had problems with dealing with the bad guys
attacking the Mormons in my game, but our pagan (and team commander at the
time because the leader was elsewhere) player kept her cool and kept the
situation "bad guys are hurting innocents"...
> >Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
> >it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
>
> That sort of thing _never_ happens on this list! :-)
Heh. Of course, real Mormons, Fundamentalists and Pagans don't roleplay!
(right...)
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:01:54 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> >Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> >it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> >Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> This is getting cruel, i mean, our Wizards haven't even played ONE game
> as th Wizards, and local media is already saying the uniforms suck, and
> now this.
>
> What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
Do what the rest of us do - cheer for Seattle teams...
DonM.
(born in Seattle, WA)
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:19:24 -0400
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
>use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
>fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
>can do the characters...
As a matter of fact I currently run as part of one of my universes a
Christian Hero Team called Testament. If your computer can read Wordperfect
6.0 files I can upload you a copy of their stat sheets. If you can't use WP
files I can send you character descriptions so that you can do your own
versions. The members of the team are:
Canon: Martial Artist ex CIA agent, team leader
Stedfast: Brick who can't be moved
Zealot: Speedster with some surprises
Halo: Standard Light and Energy projector
Epiphany: Egoist
John 316: Alien healer who looks like a big blue angel.
To add a little extra to the team both Zealot and Epiphany are minors (age 16).
One hint I would suggest is use "Code VS Killing as a common disad.
Patrick B.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:19:28 -0400
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com>
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 02:03 AM 6/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
>limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
>
>Jerry aka
>Puzzleboy--FoxBat's Best Friend......... Join us, join us!
>
I don't know about limitations but I can suggest a power you might add to
the guy.
Flash versus sight NND any one who looks at him is automatically flashed for
one phase while they refocus their hurting eyes and fight back the feelings
of queeziness.
Patrick B.
PS I am also an artist and I feel for you. You have my sympathy.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:39:47 -0400
sourdust@ix.netcom.com, tarot@grove.ufl.EDU, pthalner@iac.net,
taylor@aphill.jhuapl.edu, kitsune@nether.net,
champion@cyberhighway.net, mtelford@dowco.com,
P.Fayers@astronomy.cardiff.ac.uk, miq@teleport.com,
Shadow@Assassins.com, AREGALAD@umiami.ir.miami.edu,
smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk, tsang@csua.berkeley.edu,
mweil777@interaccess.com, hero-l@omg.org, sturgess@ccis.adisys.com.au,
gazza@antree.com.au, mjcugley@mcs.dundee.ac.uk, Chris_Lea@magic.ca,
kirk@oasis.novia.net, ksonby@sandstone.baldwinw.edu,
whipp@hpel.umd.edu, Allan.Price@library.anu.edu.au,
adkraman@mailbox.syr.edu, adkraman@adala.smith.cis.syr.edu,
adkraman@aol.com, b.mai@genie.com, brad@205.244.242.15,
ClarkC@devetwa.edu.au, Mr_Clever@msn.com, cohan@scf-fs.usc.edu,
dcollins@pathcom.com, DFair@sdslink.com,
grahamd@email.grafenwoehr.army.mil, garfield@northwest.com,
ddgrif01@homer.louisville.edu, elschwei@mtu.edu, georgel@oanet.com,
bpgier@xmission.com, ej53966@goodnet.com, jbes@techline.com,
jdwilso@comp.uark.edu, Leveticus@aol.com, wligon@atl.mindspring.com,
magician@bc1.com, logan@blarg.net, kuncems@sparc.isl.net,
mchildre@pcshs.com, michael_fryer@magtek.com, nemesis@bora.dacom.co.kr,
nickh@KFALLS.sykes.com, lrdpagan@pacbell.net,
103346.671@compuserve.com, fugazi@frontiernet.net,
spmillis@unccvx.uncc.edu, tafka@netcom.com, profesor@durham.net
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT - Champions: The Masquerade
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This is announcement to a great many people who have expressed
interest, at one time or another, in my once long-running Play-By-E-Mail
(PBEM) Champions campaign, which I affectionately call Champions: The
Masquerade.
Said PBEM Campaign has been on an extended hiatus for nearly seven
months now, since (I believe) December or January of 1997. During that
hiatus, I was quite busy with things in real life. However, as I found
time, I started thinking about the campaign, and the world it was set in.
I decided that, although I had enjoyed the game immensly, I had been
somewhat frustrated with the way in which the game and the world were
received by some, and the inconsistencies this brought about. After
further thought, I came to the conclusion that a large part of that problem
was my fault, as I had not made my intentions clear enough, and had not
enforced them stringently enough when characters were presented to me which
went against my ideas. So, I decided that, should I ever find the time to
run the game again, I would like to start all over again, and try to run
the game the way it should have been run.
THAT TIME HAS COME. I have finally completed the (still somewhat
rough) new website for the campaign, and posted it to my account.
Everything anyone needs to get started is there, I hope. And if not, just
drop me a line. Please do read the whole site, or at least a large
majority of it, including the guidelines for joining, the history
(timeline), and the "Who's Who: pages, before sending me anything remotely
resembling character submissions. However, commments, questions, and
suggestions are always welcome.
If you have received this email more than once, my apologies; the
list of addresses is quite long, as you can see, and I may have slipped up.
I have tried to include all the addresses I have for people, on the hopes
that at least one copy will get through.
I will open the "floor", so to speak, for character submissions,
starting at the beginning of next week. I intend to leave the floor open
for character concept submissions until at least the end of July, and
possibly longer. Once I close character concept submissions, I will still
accept applications for lurkers, and everyone will still have at least one
month before character sheets, histories, and such, need to be finalized.
I thank you, one and all, for your patience, and I hope to hear
from some of you in the near future. Be well.
David Miller
C:tM homepage - http://www.fred.net/seleena/champions/index.html
PS: a special thanks to Bob Greenwade for his article on Hero Sanction. I
hope you don't mind, but I put a copy of it on this site (I still gave you
full credit - honest!).
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:45:45 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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>I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
>character.
>
>I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
>deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
>appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
>Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
Yup - try damage reduction vs physical for this effect.
>Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
>arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
>the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
>reduced by range EB.
Try 'Extra STR', 'Only for Throwing Distance and Damage, Not Lifting
Ability'. Hmm, too kludgy. Howabout a triggered minor transform that makes
every object you throw aerodynamic? (Y'know, objects are classified as
balanced/not, aerodynamic/not). Probably too expensive.
Don't forget cool disadvantages, though. I once has a 'super-slip suit'
character (Silicon) who took 2x Distance from Knockback (not 2x damage, just
twice the distance - basically, he had trouble controlling his sliding if
you knocked him around).
How about some reduced STR for grabbing? He can't be held (increased STR vs
Grabs) but by the same token can't hold. Actually, this could be bought as
'Extra STR vs. Grabs, Side Effect: Reduced STR for Grabs' - and away you go.
As for offensive powers, is his 'frictionlessness' restricted to himself, or
can he apply it against others? Running/Superleap Drain can render a lot of
targets helpless - just apply 3/4 of the points to Running Drain, and 1/4 to
Superleap Drain (Superleap typically has far fewer Active Points).
Then there's telekinetic disarms - where you make that gun too slippery to hold.
If you want to just knock people off their feet, use a Suppress vs. STR - if
the person goes below the STR required to support their own weight (0 STR
for most people, IIRC, but don't quote me), they fall down and can't move -
this will even knock a lot of flyers out of the sky (no air resistance to
hold them up, perhaps?) but flyers that use Foci may be immune.
As for actually _damaging_ attacks, it's hard to come up with one - unless
you want to get really evil, and start doing things like lowering the
friction in a person's sweat glands (destroying surface tensions too?) and
watch the person dehydrate in seconds (ick). Sure it's bad physics, but
welcome to comic-book land :-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
else's house?"
-NHS #56
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:57:17 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
> with
> >> the Devil"... sorry...
> >
> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
> >
>
> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing",
Don't watch much TV?
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Travesty (a little long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:00:55 -0400
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Patcrick B. writes:
>Flash versus sight NND any one who looks at him is automatically
flashed for
>one phase while they refocus their hurting eyes and fight back the
feelings
>of queeziness.
Long ago, I wrote a character called the Mad Golfer who wore clothes so
hideous, it was counted as invisibility. People reflexively looked away.
No one could look directly at him unless they made an ego roll or they
saw in a different spectrum.
Invisibility to Normal Sight with fringe, 0 END Persistent, OAF -1, ego
roll negates -1/2.
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:08:03 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Belief diversity[LONG]
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Don McKinney sez;
> S McGiness sez;
> > Curtis sez;
> > >philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
> > >in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
> > >and GOOD and EVIL.
> >
> > This is along the lines of what I was saying before. We tend to use
> > words that will convey a whole range of images and suppositions. The
> > use of the words may no longer be strictly accurate but they are often
> > very useful. They work best when everyone is of the same mindset.
>
> Remember that many religious view certain things as always EVIL - wanton
> destruction of society and mass death, for example; often, discrimination
> against one or more groups (I had Quakers leading the protests against
> the "paranormal regulatory act" plotline, and played similar to their
> historical opposition to slavery in the US)...
My group is currently made up of active pagans, agnostics, and a
couple of 'searchers'; those who have been disillusioned with the
beliefs they were raised in, and looking (actively or passively) for
something they feel is actually 'right'.
I tried at one point to get a coworker of mune into the game who was
a Temple Mormon, but it turned somewhat disastrous; NOT because of his
beliefs, but because of his individual personality. I played in one of
his games once and he had a character that was the DARKEST, most
TWISTED, ulitmately EVIL character I've EVER run across, and it seemed
to be his character-type of choice in general. But back at my house,
he made repeated subtle, insidious comments about making personal
concessions to *allow* him to be associating with pagans and whatnot.
Fortunately, he lived far away, and our schedules seldom coincided, so
it was easy to avoid him after that.
I also (slightly earlier) had another player enter the game very
briefly who was Mormon, and he was just the nicest guy you'd ever meet!
Unfortunately, he had to move.
On another note, Though I, personally, am a died-in-the-wool
agnostic, I have put extensive work in configuring the religious
heirarchies in my game, because I am absolutely fascinated by religions,
and (on a very superficial level) consider the subject great game
material. So before my game had even started, I had already set in
place both what the ultimate cosmic trith WAS and what religions were
practiced by the world's populations - including some that were 'right'
and some that were 'mislead'.
The Spanish Inquisition I mentioned earlier were actually a group of
completely secular origin, and were simply deluded into believing that
they were 'Avatars of God'.
I believe that these kinds of plotlines and Characters need not
actually be offensive to even the devoutest of (put your belief here),
if only two points are remembered;
1)IT'S A GAME. This is fantasy escapism and is not meant as an
attack on anybody, simply conflict and resolution of fantastic
characters.
2)INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT ALWAYS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LARGER GROUP.
Just as in real life, in a fantasy world, just because a villian claims
to be an Avatar of Mohammed, it doesn't mean that all others in the game
who follow Mohammed share his/her specific beliefs.
Man, can't I write ANYTHING that's not long-winded?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:12:40 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> > At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> > >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment
> (Pentecostal
> > >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> > >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
> > with
> > >> the Devil"... sorry...
> > >
> > >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
>
> > >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
> >
> > I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
> > near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
> > allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
> > just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
> > feel free to ignore it...
> > Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
> > take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
> > brand of "right".
>
> As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
> church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
> (before anyone doubts my credentials) trained as a lay minister (or
> exhorter, as the technical term goes), first:
>
> Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
> too much 20/20.
Nothing I didn't get from the fundementalists own TV shows. As you go on to
say there are variations with in any religious grouping. So the "powers" are
bogus but also "real". Don't blame the media for pointing out the nuts that
really exist.
> More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
> groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
> of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
If we understand it, can we stereotype it. :)
>
> Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
> groups out there as there are Protestant organizations...
Of course. Who claimed otherwise?
> For every church
> someone has seen in their home town, there's probably a "normal" fundamentalist
> denomination.
Depending on your definition of "normal". Are Catholics normal, are Mormons?
Are Christians in general? Are Pagans?
> So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
> Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
> government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
Well they've come closer than the Catholics, Pagans, or Mormons.
>
> Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
> same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
> groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
> and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
> Jim Bakker was "Assemblies of God" (in fact, my father went to Bible College
> with him, says he was a great minister till he met that "witch")
Check his views on Revelation, brilliant stuff.
> until they
> stripped him of his papers long before the scandal - his ministry was too
> outspoken and charismatic for them [oh, that's the great break in the
> Pentecostal movement - Pentecostals vs. Charismatics], and Jerry Swaggart
> was Assembly of God the whole way through, up until the Louisiana officers
> seized his ministry and dropped his papers for misconduct.
>
> Now, note that these three men were all different denominations - in fact,
> Mr. Falwell is technically Baptist with Holiness influence, not Pentecostal.
I'm not sure "real" Baptist want him either.
>
> Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
> of picking on my faith, at least on the list.
Sue us for exploring deeper more meaningful issues. That's what religion is
about, right?
> Or, if you really want to do
> this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
Again, did anyone ever use the word "all". I seem to recall the world "fringe".
These people exist, we never said they were you.
>
> My grandfather would give birth to a calf before being lumped with a Baptist
> on any issue (for those who don't understand English, that's "have a cow").
Aren't they both Christians? (That's one issue, where's the calf?)
Now calm down and don't lump those of us who like discussing religion
and it's fringes with the ignorant bastards who don't support freedom of religion.
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 24 Jun 97 17:16:00 GMT
Subject: Looking for character id
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Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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h >
h > Five: I'd like 2-4 more concepts (full character write-ups not
h > needed).
h > Not mutants, or 'super powers', but telekinetics, espers, magic users
h > and
h > "Big Trouble in Little China" type kung fu powers are just fine. High
h > tech is cool (there are two cyborgs) but no battlesuits.
h >
h > So, if anyone has an ideas, please, let me know.
Hmm... sounds like you're already dealing with some serious duplication
here. Trying to be different from what you already have:
- An unasuming, scholarly character, excellent research, good detective,
with psychometry (retro-cognition), and minor telepathy, and a major
telepathic attack when under extreme stress.
- A classic 'tough cop' type: crack shot, streetwise, interogation,
high PRE, CON, BOD, pain resistance (stun only damage reduction) and
<gasp> no powers.
- A high-tech parapsychologist. Would actually step on the magick-
wielding characters toes a bit, but with very different special
effects. Could be a slightly comic Ghostbuster type, an intense
X-filesish 'open to extreme possibilities' investigator, or a
serious skeptic (they're not demons, aliens maybe, extradimensional
beings, perhaps, but not demons...)
- An empathic healer.
- A Christian mystic (a Gnostic, Enochian, Templar, or Mason, perhaps)
again, similiar to the other magick-wielders, but with a different
special effect.
- One of the Cthuloid monsters that has switched sides. In human form,
risks reverting to the ways of its fellows when it assumes its natural
form, but has no decent combat abilities otherwise. Multiform, with
accidental change, and a very dangerous berserk in the Cthuloid form.
- A victim. Really, sometimes it can be fun to play the character who's
best combat power is screaming for help. Should have useful noncombat
abilities, and a reason for being involved - a special sense, a
desperate need to find out something about the enemy/find a lost loved
one/whatever, unluck, being hunted by the bad guys (could be the 'key'
to opening a mystic gateway to let in the Big Bad Guy, or some such),
being madly in love with one of the other characters, intense curiosity,
etc.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:19:08 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> To: champ-l@omg.org
> Umm... guys? I think you're taking this beyond the purposes of this
> list. If you want to argue over religion please do it in email.
>
> My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
> designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
> bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
> (another) religious war.
>
> Todd
Sorry, Todd, I was looking at it as an issue of your right to present
your scenario versus the claims of those saying you're closed minded.
You presnted a fairly brilliant idea that could only be construed as
insulting to the anal. Making sure that such presentation are allowed
and defended seemed on topic to me. The religous specifics probably aren't
except in how they affect the scenario itself.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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Sounds like the Marvel character Madcap (There was a great story
featuring him in the Impossible Man Summer Spectacular). Anyway, I'd
start by giving him 1d6 Unluck, for all the times his costume fouls him
up. Then I'd go to PhysLim: Colorblind, and PsychLim: No Sense of Style
(Not just clothes, but home furnishings, etc). You may even want to put
the Activation limitation on some of his powers ("Oh no! My Travesty-Gun
is tangled in my cape! I'll have to use my Travesty-Bolas!").
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 24 Jun 97 17:26:02 GMT
Subject: More Than Meets The Eye
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Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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h >
h > Hi There,
h >
h > I've been trying to get a good grip on the transform power.
h >
h > The Tim the Transmogrifier has the amazing abilty to turn people
h > into other people. For instance, Tim could transform the team
h >
h > This would be a major Transform, right? My question is does Tim
h > need any other power than transform for these effects to work?
Major Transform. No linked Aid or drain powers, though if you make
a character more powerful, the points still have to balance - you
have to give it disads or reduce other stats or powers.
h > Would it be necessary to buy linked Aid and Drain powers? Would
h > Tim have to buy a second Transform power to effect clothing and
h > carried items? Would a Shape Shift (works against others, 0 END,
h > persistant) work okay or would Transform be necessary? If the
h > target was turned into someone smaller or bigger, would growth
h > or shrinking powers be necessary? How would you build this power?
No. Probably not, your GM might disagree. Transform is preferable to
Shapeshift for the power you describe (Shapeshift does not affect
abilities, so Punisher turned into a cheerleader would still be
tough, and could shoot you with the pom-poms). Yes, they'd be bought
by the transformed character, however, using points from stats or
whatever that are reduced or from disadvantages inflicted by the
transform.
h > Okay, here's another one: Golden Girl can change anyone or anything
h > she touches into gold (actually, a metallic mineral physically similar
h > to gold, but worthless). Any item, person, animal or what-have-you
h > that Goldie wants to become gold, becomes miraculously transformed
h > (with a successful roll).
h >
h > Would you need a drain SPD inorder to make her target immobile? Or
h > does this come free with transform? How do you build a transform that
h > can effect anything?
Transform usuall affects a specific class of things - people -> gold,
lead -> gold, rock -> gold, etc. I'm not sure how you would get enough
different Transforms to do anything->gold, but a Transform is all you
need. If you transform someone into something that can't move, they
can't move.
h > And lastly, how do you create a character that can turn anything into
h > anything? An insanely unbalancing power, I realize, but I'm just
h > wondering how one would build it.
The versatility framework: Variable Power Pool. Getting a GM to let you
put any Transform you can think of into a VPP is going to be tough. It
might help if the VPP does only Transforms (for little or no limitation).
h > Any ideas, folks?
h >
h > -Eric
h >
h >
h > ---
h > * Origin: Usenet:Fidonet: Red October Gateway (1:143/241.0)
___
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:31:31 -0400
Subject: Religion in Games
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> > My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
> > designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
> > bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
> > (another) religious war.
>
> Crusade, crusade...
ROTFL.
> Besides, we Fundamentalists are supposed to make a
> lot of noise and be obnoxious, apparently.
Nah, just the Evangelics. :)
>
> Honestly, though. As a GM, I've had Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists,
> Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans and EVEN one
> declared Budist (he worshipped "Bud", apparently).
Players or characters?
I've ran Southern Baptists, devout Catholics, numerous pagans, Zen masters,
and Taoists. One of the Baptist was a fun character because everyone assumed he
would be the joke stereotype. I played him very straight and intelligently
and took his religion very seriously. Hopefully educated a few folks in the
process.
I've had players who were Mormon, Wiccan, Athiest, and even a Thor cultist.
(I'm a Pantheist. My God's bigger than yours. :))
> Needless to say, I
> avoid religious plotlines,
Heck, I've embraced them. The big issues are fun to play with. Some of my
best supporting cast have been Angels and Demons. I even had a player
character actually become God once. (It was kind of a Starlin/Lovecraft riff.)
Strangely enough it's usually the Atheist and Agnostics who complain when I
do the religous themes. The devout realize it's a game and a fiction, while
the unbelievers seem to think these elements throw them back out of the reality
of the setting.
I'm actually very interested on hearing the religous takes from other campaigns.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:39:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in groups...
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
> Subject: Belief diversity in groups...
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> The thread(s) about the Christian adventure/groups has got me to
> thinking and wondering.... (scary thought there)
Good job on staying on topic. Congrats.
>
> What kind of Belief diversity do the groups that you play in/have played
> in have. And what kind of effect does that have on the group, the
> adventures and the adventure choices for the GM.
>
> I've played in many different dynamics, and have found that the more
> "basically similar" the outlook of the players, the greater the
> diversity of plots available.
I've found the opposite. A diversity of player views will send me in
directions I would never have thought of in a homogenous group.
> as an example: I have a tendancy to run
> philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
> in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
> and GOOD and EVIL.
I actually like it when the CHARCTERS have slightly differing views on
such things. Mature players excel in such situations and make the game
more memorable. Takes it beyond the mere "We have to stop the bad guys"
level.
>
> It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
I prefer broadening horizons and preaching tolorance to playing to peoples
pet taboos. YMMV. I tend to run a style where the "villians" will be on the
side of the angels occasionally. It's more interesting to me having to stop
Doom despite owing your mother's life to him. Or issues like, can we kill
the rampaging dragon or is it murder (or even a violation of the Endangered
Species act)?
>
> Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
> it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
It will. :)
Did I just say something about tolerance?
>
> If anyone wants to discuss religious ideas over private E-mail I'd be
> happy to, but I figured to keep it off the list. 8)
Well as long as we stay on topic, concerning games...
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:42:58 -0400
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>Try 'Extra STR', 'Only for Throwing Distance and Damage, Not Lifting
>Ability'. Hmm, too kludgy. Howabout a triggered minor transform that
makes
>every object you throw aerodynamic? (Y'know, objects are classified as
>balanced/not, aerodynamic/not). Probably too expensive.
Both are pretty good ideas, but for typical combat, an EB OIF would work
fine. It's only when he would want to throw something specific (like a
bomb about to explode) that he'd want the extra throwing distance.
>2x Distance from Knockback (not 2x damage, just
>twice the distance - basically, he had trouble controlling his sliding
if
That's a cool idea. Thanks.
>How about some reduced STR for grabbing? He can't be held (increased
STR vs
>Grabs) but by the same token can't hold. Actually, this could be bought
as
>'Extra STR vs. Grabs, Side Effect: Reduced STR for Grabs' - and away
you go.
A good idea, but I might give him more control over his power than that.
>As for offensive powers, is his 'frictionlessness' restricted to
himself, or
Yes, that's what I was planning. He can make his own body (& costume)
frictionless, but nothing else.
[ other good ideas that involve changing other people's friction deleted
]
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:52:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, David A. Fair wrote:
> On 06/23/1997 06:51 PM, Michael Surbrook (susano@access.digex.net) Said:
>
> >Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> >it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> >Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> This is getting cruel, i mean, our Wizards haven't even played ONE game
> as th Wizards, and local media is already saying the uniforms suck, and
> now this.
>
> What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
Follow the Baltimore Orioles, of course!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:54:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Gordon W. Rycroft wrote:
> >What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
>
> For a start, you can petition the R*dsk*ns to change their name to something more
> acceptable. After all, you wouldn't support a team called the N*gg*rs or the K*k*s...
I'm all for that.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:21:58 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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At 10:50 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
>runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
>have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
>the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
I don't quite understand how friction would protect you from obstacles. If
you collide with an object at high velocity, you're still subject to all the
standard Newtonian laws of momentum and inertia which cause the drastic and
painful reduction of your velocity. (My gaming group refers to all falling
damage as "deceleration trauma" -- it's not the fall that kills you, it's
the sudden stop :]).
If anything, it's going to cause more problems, because you couldn't "brake"
-- while a frictionless character can increase his maximum speed
(essentially, he'd move as if in space, with no upper limit except the
c-constant), he can't do beans about his *acceleration*. Sure, you can
reach 500 mph (or whatever) eventually, but you have to slow down at the
same rate you sped up (either that, or shut off the friction field and burn
up from air resistance).
Now, given, you wouldn't suffer any secondary abrasions from hitting the
wall, but squish is squish. :]
>I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
>deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
>appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
>Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
Only if you hit them at a *very* glancing angle. Think of it this way: a
wet bar of soap has very little friction. Squeeze it in your hand until it
squips out, then try doing this so it hits someone in the head. They will
usually say "Ow" or something of the sort.
>Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
>arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
>the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
>reduced by range EB.
I'd think that, all in all, friction plays much less a role in human speed
than the simple mechanical limitations of the human body. Given the limited
arc of motion in an overhand throw, I'd say you're not going to gain all
that much velocity from eliminating the friction from the arm. If the
character could create an "anti-friction" field around the *object*, it
would become infinite in range, operating under the "object in motion stays
in motion" ideal -- but its velocity would still be pretty darn close (maybe
a small fraction higher) to the starting speed of a normal thrown object.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
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> I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
> deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
> appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
> Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
>
> Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
> arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
> the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
> reduced by range EB.
>
> Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
>
>
> Dave Mattingly
>
How about a huge contortion skill with the limitation only for slipping,
not for bending (-1/4 or -0)? This could help simulate the ability
to duck grabs. How about dispel entangle? If the character can
use this frictionless ability against other characters, the fun really
begins. He/she could dispel gliding by removing air friction, or
increase the damage taken for falls. How about a big NND EB with the
limitations knockback damage only and must be hit by another attack?
-Eric
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: The Crossbreed (was : A scenario idea, yaddah yaddah)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:39:49 -0400 (EDT)
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> Eric Burns wrote:
>
> > I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
> > there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
> > themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
> > the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
> > superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
> > Crossbreed).
>
> This sounds like what I am looking for. Could I convince you to give me
> a quick overview of who is in Crossbreed and their powers? (or, a
> pointer to which issues of Astro City would give me a good feeling for
> this team)
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd
>
The Crossbreed made a brief appearance in Astro City #4. This is what
was revealed about them:
There are 5-6 members. The leader is an old man with a flowing, white
beard and a shepard's staff. Other members include a humanoid lion
and a woman with angelic, feathered wings. It's not revealed what their
powers are, or what their super-hero names are. They all dress in what
looks like a choir uniform. Inbetween fighting crime, they preach
the Gospel on street corners, and hand out pamphlets. They believe
that their powers were given to them by God to change the world for
the better.
This issue also starts a story arc which introduces a BatMan-like
hero called (I think) the Confessor. The Confessor is actually a
priest, and also a- oops, I almost gave it away. Check out Astro
City and learn the Confessor's startling secret. I really recommend
this series.
-Eric
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 10:27 PM 6/23/97 -0500, Earl Kwallek wrote:
> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
>near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
>allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
>just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
>feel free to ignore it...
Given those stances on the workings of the gifts of the Spirit, this
particular outfit *must* have been a fringe group. That last position is
especially odd. Only preachers can interpret tongues? I sure wonder what
Scriptural passage they get *that* idea from.
> Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
>take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
>brand of "right".
I agree that the fringe religious groups should not be ignored, less
because of any "threat" that they may pose to citizens' rights (they don't
really pose any at all) than because of their extreme violence (such as the
World Trade Center and Oklahoma City bombings).
In fact, I'm in the early stages of developing a radical quasi-Christian
group calling themselves the Zealots, who engage in just such terrorist
activities "in the name of God." (They also listen to Rev. Gil Purdue a
lot, for those of you with "Horror Enemies.") Now, if that's not a
philosophical challenge for a team of sincere Christian heroes, I don't know
what is.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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At 10:50 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
>runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
>have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
>the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
>
>I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
>character.
The one thing that comes to mind is Double Jointed. The character
wouldn't actually be double-jointed in the classic sense, but can get most
if not all of the same benefits by not having to deal with friction.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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At 02:03 AM 6/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>Now we get to "The Costume" (shudder)
>
>the main suit is a body stocking (standard Superhero wear) that is
>Prison/ConstructionCone Orange (ok nothing too bad so far)
>
>the mask or cowl is a lovely Peagreen with dark purple stripes the eye
>lenses are bright primary blue (anybody feeling queezy?) and is tied at
>the back of the head.... the ties reaching all the way to the ground
>(tripping hazard & and easily grabbed)
>
>on top of this we have an oversized Swashbucklers hat in Yellow ochre
>with a neon pink band, the floppy brim of this hat extends out past the
>shoulders while the turquoise plume sticks straight up and is almost 3
>feet long (everyone OK?)
>
>the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
>interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
>does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
>metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
>to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
>(approx 15feet long and at least 9feet wide)
>
>the trunks, gloves and boots (also shiney vinyl) are pastel pink with
>straps and belts of varied colors (hypnotic isn't it?) the cuffs on the
>boots and gloves are so large that a small dog (Benji, Tbone, Spuds)
>could ride comfortably..... the boots are supposedd to be thigh high ans
>will some times stay there but ususally the fall down around the
>ankles.... the gloves have no set place of rest but make a nice flapping
>noise whenever a gesture is made
>
>finally we get to the Utilitybelt...... flat balck (he messed up trying
>to draw in some details) about the diameter of a hula-hoop this belt
>rests on the hip opposite the one for the pistol holster..... the other
>side rests somewhere above the knee........ the hoster and accompyning
>belt are bright candyapple red.... the pistol is ivory.... this belt
>hangs in the same manor as the Utilitybelt.... the pistol has a cable
>that connects it to a small powerpack on the utility belt and a cable
>connecting it to a clasp around the right wrist..... the pistol is
>holstered on the leftside of the body
>
>oh yeah... the part of the face not covered by the mask is bubblegum
>pink
>
>I told you it was UGLY.... and the player wants to go with it now....
>it's become part of the concept..... I've even agrred to draw this
>thing.... without changing anything just refining a crude work
>
>Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
>possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
>some objective opinions and go with the consensus
>
>Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
>limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
I definitely have to get my own computer at home, so I don't have to come
to the library to do my email. I was laughing so hard I think I disturbed
some of the other patrons. [Wiping tear from eye - really] Boy, he's not
called Travesty for nothing, that's for sure.
I think that this is definitely worth 2d6 Flash, Continuous, Explosion at
-1DC/5", 0 END, Persistent, Always On, OIF, No Range. (Really -- just
thinking about it hurt my eyes.)
The cape, boots, and gloves would probably cause much of his DEX to have
an Activation Roll, and 1d6 Unluck is not out of the question.
The Distinctive Feature for the costume would be worth 15 points. It's
still Easily Concealable (he could always just not wear it), but it gets a
Major reaction -- people tend to fall down laughing, and not take him seriously.
Arguably, he could also get a Physical Limitation "Automatic Laughter PRE
Attack When Appearing In Costume," Frequent/Great. Use EGO against this PRE
Attack (even if PRE is normally used all the time), and all normal modifiers
have the reverse effect (e.g., a bad soliloquy or pathetic show of power
would increase the effect of the Roll). The severity of the laughter is
represented by how good the PRE Attack is.
Another good Physical Limitation for him would be "Accident Prone When In
Costume," also Frequent/Great.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:52:34 -0400
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Eric said:
>How about a huge contortion skill with the limitation only for
slipping,
>not for bending (-1/4 or -0)? This could help simulate the ability
>to duck grabs.
Good idea. Thanks. Probably a -0, though.
>dispel entangle
>dispel gliding
>NND EB with the limitations knockback damage only and must be hit by
another attack?
Good ideas, but I was looking at being able to control his own friction,
not others'.
Vox said:
>I don't quite understand how friction would protect you from obstacles.
[...]
Good points. I was thinking of small objects, not large. Running into a
wall would still be bad news. Running into a bird wouldn't.
>If anything, it's going to cause more problems, because you couldn't
"brake"
Unless he is in complete control of his frictionless power, and can turn
off all or part of it anytime he wants. Turning friction suddenly back
on while running 200 mph would be very bad, but "pumping the brakes" or
ski-shuss(?)ing could stop him soon enough most of the time.
>while a frictionless character can increase his maximum speed
>he can't do beans about his *acceleration*.
True, it would still be 5" per 1" traveled.
>A wet bar of soap has very little friction. Squeeze it in your hand
until it
>squips out, then try doing this so it hits someone in the head. They
will
>usually say "Ow" or something of the sort.
Who do YOU shower with? :)
But remember that EVERY attack will be at some sort of angle, almost
never 90 degrees, since the human body is not uniformly smooth, or
however is best to say it.
>I'd think that, all in all, friction plays much less a role in human
speed
>than the simple mechanical limitations of the human body. Given the
limited
>arc of motion in an overhand throw, I'd say you're not going to gain
all
>that much velocity from eliminating the friction from the arm.
I was thinking more of a baseball pitch or flicking type of throw. The
object would start off with incredible velocity, but would begin slowing
down immediately leaving the hand.
>If the character could create an "anti-friction" field around the
*object*
That would be much more useful, but I'm trying to limit the power to
just a frictionless self.
Dave Mattingly
From: "Gordon W. Rycroft" <gwr1@ukc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
Priority: NORMAL
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On Tue, 24 Jun 97 11:36:54 -0400 "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> wrote:
>On 06/23/1997 06:51 PM, Michael Surbrook (susano@access.digex.net) Said:
>>Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
>>it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
>>Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>This is getting cruel, i mean, our Wizards haven't even played ONE game
>as th Wizards, and local media is already saying the uniforms suck, and
>now this.
Aren't they a five-a-side ping-pong team? That could explain something...
>What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
For a start, you can petition the R*dsk*ns to change their name to something more
acceptable. After all, you wouldn't support a team called the N*gg*rs or the K*k*s...
Now let the flames roll...
Gordon
__________________________________________________________
If anybody has seen a sigfile around here, please hand it in at the desk
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:24:55 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: The Crossbreed (was : A scenario idea, yaddah yaddah)
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At 03:39 PM 6/24/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>This issue also starts a story arc which introduces a BatMan-like
>hero called (I think) the Confessor. The Confessor is actually a
>priest, and also a- oops, I almost gave it away. Check out Astro
>City and learn the Confessor's startling secret. I really recommend
>this series.
The Confessor's a neat character -- about the only issue of AC I've been
able to get a hold of is the one with the details on X startling secret.
However, his sidekick, "Altar Boy", has got to be the single dumbest
superhero name that ever made it into an otherwise respectable comic. :/
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Looking for character ideas
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Okay, this is sort of an odd post, but bear with me.
First: I'm looking for some character ideas for an anime inspired game.
Any one who hates that sort of stuff should stop reading right about now.
Two: Still with me? Okay. What I want to do is canvas some character
ideas for a Silent Mobius game. For those who haven't heard of it,
the game involves a number of characters who are part of the Attacked
Mytification Police, charged with defending the local populace from
attacks by horrific Cthulhuish monsters.
Three: The current crop of officers includes the following: A cyborg, a
sorceress with an enchanted sword, a Shinto priestess, a powerful (but
highly erratic) telekinetic, a very powerful computer hacker, a very short
(4'2") telekinetic/precognitive, another cyborg, a very powerful
telekinetic, an American Indian shamaness, a devil hunting swordsman with
an magic sword, another devi hunter who uses enchanted wards (aka
ofuda) to destroy demons and the like, a Japanese sorceress who can
manipulate the elements (based upon the classical oriental 5 elements),
and a katana toting swordswoman who can tap into her nordic heritage
'berserker rage'.
(Did I mention that it's 2030?)
Four: I've got three more designs under consideration, they are:
A Buddhist sorceress, a woman with a ghost-cutting naginata and (possibly)
a martial artist with fantastic 'ch'i' powers.
Five: I'd like 2-4 more concepts (full character write-ups not needed).
Not mutants, or 'super powers', but telekinetics, espers, magic users and
"Big Trouble in Little China" type kung fu powers are just fine. High
tech is cool (there are two cyborgs) but no battlesuits.
So, if anyone has an ideas, please, let me know.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:26:00 +0000
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Priority: normal
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There seems to be some confusion here, concerning role playing and
characteristics. I don't think you are communicating.
There are two ways in which a player character might act in a way
that does not match his characteristics or skills. One is a non-point
Disadvantage on a character, his characteristics, or skills. This is
what HAPPYELF is suggesting is OK, but it is not what the other
person is complaining about. The other is poor role playing, where
the character isn't behaving in character. This is what the other
poster is complaining about.
If your character conception states that your character has a high
Cool, PRE, EGO, or whatever, yet is easily startled under certain
circumstances, this is ok, _if that is the character conception_.
However, if it against the character conception for the character to
be played this way, then the character is being played poorly.
For example, if your character with the high Presence finds himself
in an actual haunted house, and the player says that the character is
really nervous about ghosts, and is easily frightened so long as he
is in the house, then that's ok, if it is all right with the GM for
him to add a no-point Disadvantage at that time. It is in character
(as the player conceives the character), and good role playing.
On the other hand, if the character has a high Presence, a cool
professional, and the player just thinks it would be funny if the
character was so scared of the villain that he wet his pants, that is
not in character. It is poor role playing.
Now, if you play in a campaign where being in character is valued,
then the first would be OK, but the second would not. OTOH, if you
play in a campaign where being funny is more important than being in
character, then the second would be just fine.
I suspect that the two sides in this argument actually agree with
each other, but don't realize it.
Filksinger
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: More Than Meets The Eye
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi There,
I've been trying to get a good grip on the transform power.
The book didn't seem to have very many good examples, and I'm not
completely clear about what you can and cannot do. I have some
specific examples...
The Tim the Transmogrifier has the amazing abilty to turn people
into other people. For instance, Tim could transform the team
brick into an 11-year-old girl scout, complete with uniform and
tasty box of peanut butter girl scout cookies; or he could transform
the team energy projector into an exact physical duplicate of
Napoleon Bonaparte, complete with funny hat and french army uniform.
Anything the target is carrying gets transformed to fit the
targets new physical identity, for instance if the Punisher came
running at Tim, he could transform him into a stereotypical
cheerleader, with the gun in each hand becoming pom-poms. The
changes are purely physical. The target will still be mentally
the same, have the same skills, and non-physical powers. Physical
characteristics and powers (like armor or damage resistance) will
change to match the new form.
This would be a major Transform, right? My question is does Tim
need any other power than transform for these effects to work?
Would it be necessary to buy linked Aid and Drain powers? Would
Tim have to buy a second Transform power to effect clothing and
carried items? Would a Shape Shift (works against others, 0 END,
persistant) work okay or would Transform be necessary? If the
target was turned into someone smaller or bigger, would growth
or shrinking powers be necessary? How would you build this power?
Okay, here's another one: Golden Girl can change anyone or anything she
touches into gold (actually, a metallic mineral physically similar
to gold, but worthless). Any item, person, animal or what-have-you
that Goldie wants to become gold, becomes miraculously transformed
(with a successful roll).
Would you need a drain SPD inorder to make her target immobile? Or
does this come free with transform? How do you build a transform that
can effect anything?
And lastly, how do you create a character that can turn anything into
anything? An insanely unbalancing power, I realize, but I'm just
wondering how one would build it.
Any ideas, folks?
-Eric
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:05:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Szucs <yu171533@YorkU.CA>
X-Sender: yu171533@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: RE: Urban Myth Group
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Hey, this is happening at the University of Waterloo (Canada).
The main library is slowly sinking into the ground, millimeter by
millimeter...
On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
> Someone suggested a "haunted house" for the group's HQ. I've got another
> idea for it - an underground library. You see, when they built the library,
> they forgot to account for the weight of the books, and it sank into the
> ground...
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:00:04 (-0600)
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On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:05:39 -0700,
"happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> Trevor Barrie wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >
> > > >> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
> > > >
> > > >Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
> > > >he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> > >
> > > because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
> >
> > Huh? If I want to play a weak-willed character, how does buying that
> > character a 20 EGO make him more "coherent"?
> >
>
> because he can decide how strong willed the character is in different
> situations!!! better that the reverse, yes??
>
> > > >> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > > >
> > > >I don't see how that relates at all.
>
> see below.
>
> > >
> > > like you said:
> > > >> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> > > >> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> > > >> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> > > >> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> > > >> >do it in Hero.
> >
> > A) I didn't say that
>
> \/\/ whatever \/\/
>
> > B) I still don't see how your observation on Spider-Man relates even
> > vaguely to the circumstances being described. (I don't see that it's true,
> > either, but that's beside the point.)
>
>
>
> *sigh* if spidey or supes can 'play' below stat level, why can't players??
> and spidey
>
> once lifted a whole subway system, not to mention numerous other epic feats.
> . .
>
> too numerous to be an 'epic feat' type power. and what about supes??
>
>
>
> look forget it: you are obviously of the 'points for everything, big or
> small camp.
You apperantly don't seem to get it. The player would write up a character,
then play the character completely different than the way he wrote it. 'Cept
CMS. ^_^
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:30:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re:Travesty
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At 02:03 AM 6/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>Now we get to "The Costume" (shudder)
>
>the main suit is a body stocking (standard Superhero wear) that is
>Prison/ConstructionCone Orange (ok nothing too bad so far)
>
>the mask or cowl is a lovely Peagreen with dark purple stripes the eye
>lenses are bright primary blue (anybody feeling queezy?) and is tied at
>the back of the head.... the ties reaching all the way to the ground
>(tripping hazard & and easily grabbed)
>
>on top of this we have an oversized Swashbucklers hat in Yellow ochre
>with a neon pink band, the floppy brim of this hat extends out past the
>shoulders while the turquoise plume sticks straight up and is almost 3
>feet long (everyone OK?)
>
>the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
>interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
>does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
>metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
>to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
>(approx 15feet long and at least 9feet wide)
>
>the trunks, gloves and boots (also shiney vinyl) are pastel pink with
>straps and belts of varied colors (hypnotic isn't it?) the cuffs on the
>boots and gloves are so large that a small dog (Benji, Tbone, Spuds)
>could ride comfortably..... the boots are supposedd to be thigh high ans
>will some times stay there but ususally the fall down around the
>ankles.... the gloves have no set place of rest but make a nice flapping
>noise whenever a gesture is made
>
>finally we get to the Utilitybelt...... flat balck (he messed up trying
>to draw in some details) about the diameter of a hula-hoop this belt
>rests on the hip opposite the one for the pistol holster..... the other
>side rests somewhere above the knee........ the hoster and accompyning
>belt are bright candyapple red.... the pistol is ivory.... this belt
>hangs in the same manor as the Utilitybelt.... the pistol has a cable
>that connects it to a small powerpack on the utility belt and a cable
>connecting it to a clasp around the right wrist..... the pistol is
>holstered on the leftside of the body
>
>oh yeah... the part of the face not covered by the mask is bubblegum
>pink
>
>I told you it was UGLY.... and the player wants to go with it now....
>it's become part of the concept..... I've even agrred to draw this
>thing.... without changing anything just refining a crude work
>
>Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
>possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
>some objective opinions and go with the consensus
>
>Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
>limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
This reminds me of a hero in a campaign I was in back at CMU (Carnegie-Mellon
University) in the mid-eighties. Every character in the group was a little
odd to begin with. We had a mutant rat who thought he was Mighty Mouse, we
had a character who was a blatant rip-off of the Toxic Avenger, an android
martial artist who reflected his lack of ability for creative thought by
calling himself the Penetrator, Captain California (dude with surf and sand
powers and a flying surfboard), my own character (still my favorite though I
have rewritten him in many different ways since) whose name was
Pull-Yourself-Together Man (brownie points for anyone who knows from where I
stole the name), a few other oddities, and finally the indivodual in question
whose name was so uninspired it escapes me. In any case he was a strange
visitor from another dimension (emphasis on strange) who had some pretty
standard brick powers which always applied when he used his massive legs but
only worked for the rest of his body when he used his density increase. The
character was fairly bizarre looking to begin with with his immensely
powerful legs and l;ittle scrawny body that would suddenly fill-out when he
activated his density increase but the real problem was that he could never
come up with a description of his costume. This was important because one of
our players was former professional graphic artist and was doing drawings for
each individual and for the team as a whole. So one session when the player
was NOT present, as a group we costumed him. I do not remember the specific
horrific details but the resulting portrait was a horror and resulted in any
number of unusual NPC reactions . . .
Carter Humphrey Beer
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:35:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
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>I've been trying to get a good grip on the transform power.
>The book didn't seem to have very many good examples, and I'm not
>completely clear about what you can and cannot do. I have some
>specific examples...
<snip examples>
Remember that Transform operates on the following principle: If you can do
2xBODY on the dice, that's sufficient to INSTANTLY KILL a 'normal' (no
resistant defense) person if you used an RKA (as opposed to the 'major
transform', where all the really useful transform effects fall anyways).
So, if I roll my 6D6 Major Transform (matter to solid gold) and roll a 20
vs. someone with 10 BODY, bam, they're a solid gold statue. No need to apply
SPD Drain, or any other funkiness. They've gone from a 'living breathing'
person to a 'golden paperweight' statue. This is the reason that Transform
is expensive - it's powerful.
Anyway, if you want to turn that Brick into a cheerleader - transform can do
it all by itself, and change the foci along with the bargain (assuming that
the foci are 'paid for' stuff, and that changing foci along with the target
is part of the transform's SFX).
But, despite the power, transform is rather easily defeated. Even 10 pips of
Power Defense can ruin most Transforms, even the Cumulative ones (which will
now take far too many hits to work to be practical). A high BODY count can
also make it difficult to use Transforms effectively. The aforementioned 6D6
Transform is helpless in the face of 19 BODY (19x2=38, which is more than
you can roll on 6D6). And in practical terms, 15 BODY almost guarantees
safety from this 90 Active Point power - as you're hard pressed to roll
better than 30 on 6D6. Cumulative Transforms are another matter, of course,
but a 4D6 Cumulative Major Transform (90 AP) will on average need 3 solid
hits to be effective vs a 15 BODY character (often 2 will barely do, though).
Simply put, Transforms are very powerful, very expensive, but not terribly
reliable. A 6D6 RKA is generally scarier than a 6D6 Major Transform.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
else's house?"
-NHS #56
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:08:32 +0000
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Priority: normal
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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> filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, if the character has a high Presence, a cool
> > professional, and the player just thinks it would be funny if the
> > character was so scared of the villain that he wet his pants, that is
> > not in character. It is poor role playing.
>
>
>
>
> oh, really? or is that just because some of us think
> role-playing=taking yerself too seriously? this ain't the white wolf
> list, people. . .
Hardly. I never take myself seriously. However, being serious or not
serious has nothing to do with being in character.
The character above has a stated personal characteristic, that he is
a cool professional. He also has the game characteristic to back it
up. For him to suddenly become a gutless wonder, when his character
is clearly defined as a cool professional with a high Presence, is
not in character, whether it is funny or not.
Suppose your super with the Code vs Killing decided to push a normal
out of a 30th floor window, because it was amusing? Out of character.
Being not serious doesn't make it in character.
If your professional weightlifter can't lift a cube of butter one
day, just because it would be amusing, that isn't in character.
Funny, maybe, but not in character.
> > Now, if you play in a campaign where being in character is valued,
> > then the first would be OK, but the second would not. OTOH, if you
> > play in a campaign where being funny is more important than being in
> > character, then the second would be just fine.
> >
> > I suspect that the two sides in this argument actually agree with
> > each other, but don't realize it.
> >
> > Filksinger
>
> where was conception ever mentioned? the 'other side'
> is speaking stats and skills, man.
Earlier in the discussion, in which they stated that stats and
skills were part of a character conception. More than once.
Filksinger
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:29:41 -0400
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>The Tim the Transmogrifier has the amazing abilty to turn people
>into other people.
>Anything the target is carrying gets transformed to fit the
>targets new physical identity
>The target will still be mentally
>the same, have the same skills, and non-physical powers.
>This would be a major Transform, right? My question is does Tim
>need any other power than transform for these effects to work?
Yes, that's a major transform. If a character has only physical powers
(brick, speedster, gadgetmonger), the character is essentially useless.
Tim does not need any other powers to do this, as long as he does not
add points to the target. You're allowed to take away as many ponts as
you want, but you can't add any. A brick can become any weak person, but
a mentalist who has only paid 10 points on physical characteristics
cannot be transformed into a brick while still keeping his mental powers
unless a compensating disad is taken.
The logic behind transform is that if you do enough body to kill them,
you may as well transform them into something else. If you can
completely eliminate them from the game, just limiting the target is a
less powerful attack. Tim could have turned them all into stone, or into
normal frogs, but didn't.
>If the target was turned into someone smaller or bigger,
>would growth or shrinking powers be necessary?
That's an interesting point, and the answer is probably yes. Remember,
Tim can use this power on his friends, too, and turning Wimpman into a
100-foot-high Wimpman makes him much more effective. Wimpman must lose
100 points to compensate for the 75 points of growth always on.
>Okay, here's another one: Golden Girl can change anyone or anything she
>touches into gold
>Would you need a drain SPD inorder to make her target immobile? Or
>does this come free with transform? How do you build a transform that
>can effect anything?
No SPD drain is needed. Transform can automatically remove any points
you want. Her 4 SPD, or 12 SPD, or whatever it was, is now a 0 SPD,
because she's a gold brick now.
Transforms already affect anything. Golden Girl could turn a person into
gold, or a car into gold, or a puddle into gold, or the air into gold...
To limit it to just organic material would probably be a -1/4, just
living things would be a -1/2, just animals would be a -3/4, and just
humans would be a -1.
>
>And lastly, how do you create a character that can turn anything into
>anything? An insanely unbalancing power, I realize, but I'm just
>wondering how one would build it.
That's in the book. A +2 advantage on the transform.
--
So Tim the Transmogrifier's power would probably be written as Xd6 Major
Transform, transform into limited class of things: other humans +1/4,
only versus humans -1.
Dave Mattingly
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Travesty (a little long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:34:09 -0400
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Bob Greenwade said:
>...PRE Attack [...] all normal modifiers have the reverse
>effect (e.g., a bad soliloquy or pathetic show of power
>would increase the effect of the Roll).
I really like this idea. Opposite modifiers can have opposite results...
This could mean that if instead of causing a target to surrendur, I
could cause him to attack, giving us taunting rules.
Hmm...
Dave Mattingly
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Astro City (was Re: The Crossbreed)
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In a message dated 97-06-24 18:30:40 EDT, you write:
<< However, his sidekick, "Altar Boy", has got to be the single dumbest
superhero name that ever made it into an otherwise respectable comic. :/ >>
Umm, I think the name was chosen on purpose, for just that reason. After
all, the main gist of the story is supposed to be the ups and downs of being
a sidekick... And what sidekick do you know that has a cool name?
Jason
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:00:16 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: RE: Frictionless
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At 04:52 PM 6/24/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>> A wet bar of soap has very little friction. Squeeze it in your hand
>> until it squips out, then try doing this so it hits someone in the
>> head. They will usually say "Ow" or something of the sort.
>
>Who do YOU shower with? :)
No one -- but then again, my shower has liquid soap. Bar soap is for the
sink. :]
>But remember that EVERY attack will be at some sort of angle, almost
>never 90 degrees, since the human body is not uniformly smooth, or
>however is best to say it.
True -- but my point is that "slippage" still involves some exchange of
force/energy of motion. Or, in other words, the soap bar can slip alongside
my head, but it's still going to sting. Maybe Damage Reduction?
>I was thinking more of a baseball pitch or flicking type of throw. The
>object would start off with incredible velocity, but would begin slowing
>down immediately leaving the hand.
I thought "overhand throw" was the standard baseball pitch. :]
I wonder if anyone has data on the difference between a pitch's speed
leaving the mound and arriving at the plate. This could help a little.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:00:18 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Looking for character ideas
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At 05:56 PM 6/24/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Three: The current crop of officers includes the following: A cyborg, a
>sorceress with an enchanted sword, a Shinto priestess, a powerful (but
>highly erratic) telekinetic, a very powerful computer hacker, a very short
>(4'2") telekinetic/precognitive, another cyborg, a very powerful
>telekinetic, an American Indian shamaness, a devil hunting swordsman with
>an magic sword, another devi hunter who uses enchanted wards (aka
>ofuda) to destroy demons and the like, a Japanese sorceress who can
>manipulate the elements (based upon the classical oriental 5 elements),
>and a katana toting swordswoman who can tap into her nordic heritage
>'berserker rage'.
Wouldn't the Nordic heritage be somewhat peeved that she's toting a katana
instead of a good Nordic axe or broadsword? ;]
==
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:02:17 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
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At 09:29 PM 6/24/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>Yes, that's a major transform. If a character has only physical powers
>(brick, speedster, gadgetmonger), the character is essentially useless.
>Tim does not need any other powers to do this, as long as he does not
>add points to the target. You're allowed to take away as many ponts as
>you want, but you can't add any. A brick can become any weak person, but
>a mentalist who has only paid 10 points on physical characteristics
>cannot be transformed into a brick while still keeping his mental powers
>unless a compensating disad is taken.
Um, where precisely does it say in the book that you can't add points? Just
curious.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:04:02 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: PYT Man
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BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
<edit>
my own character (still my favorite though I
> have rewritten him in many different ways since) whose name was
> Pull-Yourself-Together Man (brownie points for anyone who knows from where I
> stole the name),
>
> Carter Humphrey Beer
You stole it from a one-shot comic called "The Guide to the
Non-Existant Universe".... or something like that...... my personal
fave... The Missing Lynx...... "Where IS he?"
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 25 Jun 97 02:06:02 GMT
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and
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Path: october!darrin.kelley
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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HE>From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
HE>Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
HE>To: champ-l@omg.org
HE>Umm... guys? I think you're taking this beyond the purposes of this
HE>list. If you want to argue over religion please do it in email.
Which is where I just chose to pose a message on that topic. I too
feel that this has swayed pretty far from the subject of this list.
HE>My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
HE>designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
HE>bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
HE>(another) religious war.
HE>Todd
On a related subject, I have a story to tell. But I am leaving out
specific names, because it is indeed possible that one or more of those
participants frequent this list.
Just after I left Oregon four years ago, I still remained in contact
with a variety of gamers from the Portland area. Including a few
representatives of a predominantly Christian Champions group. In fact,
one of the players deliberately went out of his way to contact me. It
didn't last very long, and I am about to tell you all why.
The game was run by a friend of mine. One of my old GMs. He is a
pretty intense "Christian fundimentalist" of the Protestant line. He
set out to recruit an entirely Christian gaming group. Well because of
the comparitive rarity of entirely Christian gaming groups, the prospect
did bring a considerable response. And he found himself with a full game
group in little under a week.
Well he started the campaign with the old "the Pope is the
Anti-Christ" bit. Big mistake. The campaign ended as fast as it started.
Because he neglected to check out one fact. His players all turned out
to be Catholic! And in spite of myself, I couldn't help but laugh myself
sick.
The solution to the problem central to the issue is pretty simple:
Keep your own individual religious beliefs separate from gaming. They
don't mix. Because it is entirely likely that the other members of your
gaming group won't share them. And offending the religious
senseabilities of others is no way to keep friends.
specific religions currently in practice in any of roleplaying games I
the extent. Doing any more, as I see it, risks drawing offense from one
or more of my players. And that is definately something I don't see
healthy for any game group.
My reason for not giving the modern faiths equal time in the
roleplaying games I run is pretty simple. Someone invariably will take
offense at whatever portrayal of them I make. However, I don't see
anything wrong with simply stating that a character in a modern setting
practices a certain religion. But that is the extent of it.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:14:28 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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At 02:24 PM 6/22/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
>
>> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
>> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
>> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
>> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
>> >do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with all sorts
>> >of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for because
>> >it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
>
>> uh-huh? and this is bad why?
>
>Because it's generally considered appropriate to role-play your character
>the way he or she was defined. If you want to play a character who's
>weak-willed and/or easily frightened, buy the stats to represent that. If
>you want certain powers and skills, buy them.
>
>> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
>
>Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
>he or she were better than their stats indicate?
because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
>
>> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
>
>I don't see how that relates at all.
like you said:
>> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
>> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
>> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
>> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
>> >do it in Hero.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:16:51 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>> uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
>> commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
>> and as for supes. . . .
>
>Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
>idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
>Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
>players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
>playing their charcters as if they were morons.
because their not bimbos!! plus it is debatable it it was "cute" or just "the guy mentioning it don't get it". . ..
If I have a character who is
>defined as being cooler than the Fonze, whould I be comended for hacing the
>character jump and go "Yipe!" everytime some punk gets in his face? Is that
>roleplaying to you? If you reward players for playing characters stats lower
>than they are, you would love my current group where I have told Charcters
>what to do next and they still didn't have a clue as to what they needed to
>do. Please, if you want to play an idiot, don't give him an 18 INT.
>
uh-huh?? what about an idiot savant??
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:25:47 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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> It seems to me that there may be a misinterpretation by some people
>between character concept, roleplaying, and character sheets. Allow me
>to rant and ramble....
> The original complaint had to do with players not playing their
>characters' conceptions properly. I have to agree that that is a valid
>complaint;
> 1)Powers and skills not 'paid for' are powers and skills that the
>character does not have. Roleplaying cannot make a character understand
>how to rebuild a car's engine if (s)he has no mechanics skill; even if
>the PLAYER can.
> 2)Powers and skills that ARE paid for do not simply 'disappear' for
>the sake of a humourous reaction or 'take'. If a character has a 25
>PRE, (s)he's not going to be frightened or cowed by a thing jumping out
>from a bush.
>
what about an arachniphobic psyc lim??? if a psyc lim works, shouldn't a non- points personality trait?? i would commend anyone who gives themselves extra traits. . .
> How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
>character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
>with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
>Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
>roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
>character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
>player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
>with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
>an idiot.
>
what about 8 skill and a 20+ "bluf" type skill?? how about a classic nerd with 20
skill but is feeling a bit nervous around all these poeple? or someone who only
haks well on their favorite smartdrug, because of addiction???
> Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
>whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
>that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
>ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
>insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
>that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
>is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
>partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
>CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
>to all three.
>
yes, and all effect each other: including skills and stats being partially limited.
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:43:38 -0400
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>I thought "overhand throw" was the standard baseball pitch. :]
It is. I thought you meant overhand like a lob.
>I wonder if anyone has data on the difference between a pitch's speed
>leaving the mound and arriving at the plate. This could help a little.
If I remember right, a typical pro pitch is around 90 at the mound and
85 at the plate. Which is pretty close to reduced by range.
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:48:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
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On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
> >
> >Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
> >he or she were better than their stats indicate?
>
> because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
Huh? If I want to play a weak-willed character, how does buying that
character a 20 EGO make him more "coherent"?
> >> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> >
> >I don't see how that relates at all.
>
> like you said:
> >> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >> >do it in Hero.
A) I didn't say that
B) I still don't see how your observation on Spider-Man relates even
vaguely to the circumstances being described. (I don't see that it's true,
either, but that's beside the point.)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:49:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote:
[Re: Transform]
>
> Um, where precisely does it say in the book that you can't add points? Just
> curious.
Previous edition. That restriction wasn't included in 4E, but IMO it's
necessary for game balance. (Classic example: Transform aluminum cans into
slavishly devoted near-omnipotent beings, 15 points).
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:50:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Looking for character ideas
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote:
> >and a katana toting swordswoman who can tap into her nordic heritage
> >'berserker rage'.
>
> Wouldn't the Nordic heritage be somewhat peeved that she's toting a katana
> instead of a good Nordic axe or broadsword? ;]
He said she used it for a berserker rage, so I would hope it would be a
little more than "somewhat peeved".:)
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:50:50 -0400
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Vox asks:
>Um, where precisely does it say in the book that you can't add points?
I don't have the book here now, but it's I believe it's under the
Transform power description, where it gives an example of adding wings
and taking away speed...
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:55:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> Transforms already affect anything. Golden Girl could turn a person into
> gold, or a car into gold, or a puddle into gold, or the air into gold...
> To limit it to just organic material would probably be a -1/4, just
> living things would be a -1/2, just animals would be a -3/4, and just
> humans would be a -1.
No, the description of Transform states that the default level changes "a
specific type of target into a certain type of object". Advantages are
listed to vary the result, but none for varying the target. I can't
imagine why not, but then the 4E Transform write-up sort of needs an
overhaul.
> >And lastly, how do you create a character that can turn anything into
> >anything? An insanely unbalancing power, I realize, but I'm just
> >wondering how one would build it.
>
> That's in the book. A +2 advantage on the transform.
The book lists +1 to transform your target into anything; I believe "any
target" was a +1 in previous editions, but I'm not certain.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:14:08 -0400
sourdust@ix.netcom.com, tarot@grove.ufl.EDU, pthalner@iac.net,
taylor@aphill.jhuapl.edu, kitsune@nether.net,
champion@cyberhighway.net, mtelford@dowco.com,
P.Fayers@astronomy.cardiff.ac.uk, miq@teleport.com,
Shadow@Assassins.com, AREGALAD@umiami.ir.miami.edu,
smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk, tsang@csua.berkeley.edu,
mweil777@interaccess.com, hero-l@omg.org, sturgess@ccis.adisys.com.au,
gazza@antree.com.au, mjcugley@mcs.dundee.ac.uk, Chris_Lea@magic.ca,
kirk@oasis.novia.net, ksonby@sandstone.baldwinw.edu,
whipp@hpel.umd.edu, Allan.Price@library.anu.edu.au,
adkraman@mailbox.syr.edu, adkraman@adala.smith.cis.syr.edu,
adkraman@aol.com, b.mai@genie.com, brad@205.244.242.15,
ClarkC@devetwa.edu.au, Mr_Clever@msn.com, cohan@scf-fs.usc.edu,
dcollins@pathcom.com, DFair@sdslink.com,
grahamd@email.grafenwoehr.army.mil, garfield@northwest.com,
ddgrif01@homer.louisville.edu, elschwei@mtu.edu, georgel@oanet.com,
bpgier@xmission.com, ej53966@goodnet.com, jbes@techline.com,
jdwilso@comp.uark.edu, Leveticus@aol.com, wligon@atl.mindspring.com,
magician@bc1.com, logan@blarg.net, kuncems@sparc.isl.net,
mchildre@pcshs.com, michael_fryer@magtek.com, nemesis@bora.dacom.co.kr,
nickh@KFALLS.sykes.com, lrdpagan@pacbell.net,
103346.671@compuserve.com, fugazi@frontiernet.net,
spmillis@unccvx.uncc.edu, tafka@netcom.com, profesor@durham.net
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: C:tM Web Site
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-UID: 64
My apologies to one and all for my goof. When I uploaded the
website to the server, I forget to reset the permissions on the folders and
files. I have now done so, and the site should be accessible once more.
Thank to to those who pointed out my error.
David Miller
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:25:54 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
> runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
> have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
> the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
> character.
>
> I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
> deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
> appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
> Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
>
> Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
> arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
> the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
> reduced by range EB.
>
> Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
>
You should check out a comic put out by Eclipse Comics a few years ago,
called Project:Liberty. They had a character called Slick who could
also project "slick" bolts that would cause others to fall or slip. He
could also create slick slides that he could skate around on. I suggest
an entangle or maybe a ranged drain on DEX or SPD.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:34:49 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
> runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
> have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
> the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
> character.
>
> I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
> deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
> appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
> Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
>
> Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
> arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
> the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
> reduced by range EB.
>
> Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
>
Or how about when you punch/shove someone, you are able to cancel their
friction on contact. You could do an energy blast with double knockback
that calculates damage only for knockback.
Joel Vallejo
justice, like lightning
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:42:27 -0400
Subject: Re: PYT Man
Newsgroups: october.hero
X-Listname: Hero
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Path: october.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Prometheus Corp.
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
> Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
> Subject: PYT Man
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
> <edit>
>
> my own character (still my favorite though I
> > have rewritten him in many different ways since) whose name was
> > Pull-Yourself-Together Man (brownie points for anyone who knows from where I
> > stole the name),
>
> >
> > Carter Humphrey Beer
>
> You stole it from a one-shot comic called "The Guide to the
> Non-Existant Universe".... or something like that...... my personal
> fave... The Missing Lynx...... "Where IS he?"
I've been dying to work Sir Realism into a game somewhere. Anyone tried?
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:46:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
> Subject: RE: Travesty (a little long)
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> Patcrick B. writes:
>
> >Flash versus sight NND any one who looks at him is automatically
> flashed for
> >one phase while they refocus their hurting eyes and fight back the
> feelings
> >of queeziness.
>
> Long ago, I wrote a character called the Mad Golfer who wore clothes so
> hideous, it was counted as invisibility. People reflexively looked away.
> No one could look directly at him unless they made an ego roll or they
> saw in a different spectrum.
>
> Invisibility to Normal Sight with fringe, 0 END Persistent, OAF -1, ego
> roll negates -1/2.
I should sic the Paisley Avenger on you guys. He was an effiminate fencer and
self appointed Fashion Cop. Very popular with the player who "got it" and very
nauseating to the rest.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:48:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Urban Myth Group
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: John Szucs <yu171533@YorkU.CA>
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org
> Subject: RE: Urban Myth Group
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> Hey, this is happening at the University of Waterloo (Canada).
> The main library is slowly sinking into the ground, millimeter by
> millimeter...
>
> On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
> >
> > Someone suggested a "haunted house" for the group's HQ. I've got another
> > idea for it - an underground library. You see, when they built the library,
> > they forgot to account for the weight of the books, and it sank into the
> > ground...
How about the section of the city that got paved over in the 'thirties? We
used this as our headquaters once. Of course we had to defend the homeless
who took up residence there.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Looking for character ideas
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote:
> At 05:56 PM 6/24/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >Three: The current crop of officers includes the following: A cyborg, a
> >sorceress with an enchanted sword, a Shinto priestess, a powerful (but
> >highly erratic) telekinetic, a very powerful computer hacker, a very short
> >(4'2") telekinetic/precognitive, another cyborg, a very powerful
> >telekinetic, an American Indian shamaness, a devil hunting swordsman with
> >an magic sword, another devi hunter who uses enchanted wards (aka
> >ofuda) to destroy demons and the like, a Japanese sorceress who can
> >manipulate the elements (based upon the classical oriental 5 elements),
> >and a katana toting swordswoman who can tap into her nordic heritage
> >'berserker rage'.
>
> Wouldn't the Nordic heritage be somewhat peeved that she's toting a katana
> instead of a good Nordic axe or broadsword? ;]
Her father was a Japanese kenjutsu instructor/master, her mother was a
nordic 'witch'. The sword belongs to her dad.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:03:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: RE: Frictionless
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >I wonder if anyone has data on the difference between a pitch's speed
> >leaving the mound and arriving at the plate. This could help a little.
>
> If I remember right, a typical pro pitch is around 90 at the mound and
> 85 at the plate. Which is pretty close to reduced by range.
Unless Nolan Ryan is pitching. In which case it's about 100 mph when it
leaves his hand and a mere 95 when it crosses the plate. Go ahead, swing,
I dare ya!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:04:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Joel Vallejo wrote:
> You should check out a comic put out by Eclipse Comics a few years ago,
> called Project:Liberty. They had a character called Slick who could
> also project "slick" bolts that would cause others to fall or slip. He
> could also create slick slides that he could skate around on. I suggest
> an entangle or maybe a ranged drain on DEX or SPD.
Minor correction; it was called "The Liberty Project".
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:35:49 (-0600)
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On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:14:28 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> At 02:24 PM 6/22/97 -0300, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >
>
> because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
>
No you are not sacrificing points for a more coherent character. You are
getting all the bennies of having a high PRE, EGO, or INT, like high skill
rolls, good ECV, and execellent base PRE, with out roleplaying having the
ability. Columbo appears to be a goofball, Minmay from Robotech does not have
an 18+ INT or 18+ EGO.
> >
> >> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> >
> >I don't see how that relates at all.
>
> like you said:
> >> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >> >do it in Hero.
Of course Spidey doesn't use hif full strength all the time, he's die of
thirst because he's destroy the glass everytime he went to get a drink of
water. Spidey shows something called restraint. He doesn't break some poor
thug in half killing him just beacuse the thug was sneaking up on him with a
gun and he overreacted. He has a briain and he uses it.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Vision and Valkyrie
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:41:49 (-0600)
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Just out of curiosity, what is the status of Vision and Valkyrie background
wise. I think that Vision needs to be redone prettymuch entirely, but I'm not
sure about Valkyrie. (I know the stats and powers section need to be fixed
according to your new outline, but other than that I'm not sure exactly what
needs to be done for her to be finished.)
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Oops Re: Vision and Valkyrie
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:20:14 (-0600)
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On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:41:49 (-0600),
Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu> wrote about Vision and
Valkyrie:
This one should have been sent to David Miller as private email.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:07:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Looking for character ideas
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On 24 Jun 1997, Opal wrote:
> Hmm... sounds like you're already dealing with some serious duplication
> here. Trying to be different from what you already have:
Not exactly. The major differences in the characters is personality,
appearence and minor powers details. The characters are more distinctive
than the character list would seem to indicate.
> - A high-tech parapsychologist. Would actually step on the magick-
> wielding characters toes a bit, but with very different special
> effects. Could be a slightly comic Ghostbuster type, an intense
> X-filesish 'open to extreme possibilities' investigator, or a
> serious skeptic (they're not demons, aliens maybe, extradimensional
> beings, perhaps, but not demons...)
Heh, actually, they *are* extradimensional beings...
> - A Christian mystic (a Gnostic, Enochian, Templar, or Mason, perhaps)
> again, similiar to the other magick-wielders, but with a different
> special effect.
Any suggestions as to what would be appropriate powers wise for such a
character? Any required disads?
> - One of the Cthuloid monsters that has switched sides. In human form,
> risks reverting to the ways of its fellows when it assumes its natural
> form, but has no decent combat abilities otherwise. Multiform, with
> accidental change, and a very dangerous berserk in the Cthuloid form.
Cool idea! The only problem is that the director of the AMP (ie. the PC's
boss) is half human/half extra-dimensional monster (she looks 100% human
though). This would be too close in concept. (darn)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:49:21 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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>> > We are not talking on the same level here. We are talking about
charcters who
>> > have consistantly high Skills and Stats, but don't use them.
>> >
>>
>> uh-huh? so am i!!! yer just plain ignoring me!!!
>
>No, you aren't. He said _consistently_high_ stats and skills, you
>described characters who were either not consistent or didn't have
>high stats or skills.
>
yeah- consistently high- not consistently abused !!! of course the stat are
gonna be
consistent!!!
>A character who is only smart on a drug has a _consistently_ high
>intelligence? A character with an 8- in a skill has a consistently
>_high_ skill? Neither one of these fits the bill, so you are not
>talking about the same thing.
>
*sigh* then he is incorrect in identifying his problem- those people's
pre and ego and cool are not consistent either , by your standards.
>He specifically stated that this is about a character who has high
>skill, high stats, and does not use them at all. Not a character who
>has those things part of the time. Not a character who has those
>things, but limited in some way. Not even a character who is cool,
>but pretends not to be, so they pretend to panic and get away with
>things. A character who has the stats and skills all out, all of the
>time, but plays as if they didn't.
>
"does not use them" equals "has those things part of the time"!!!
both are simply the player choosing a particular behaviour for their
character.
>>
>>
>> > I'm talking about Characters with training superior to Green Berretts or
>> > SEALS, going eep and running around acting like ditzes and
>> > idiots--consistantly.
>> >
>>
>> so? why is that BAD???
>
>Because any Green Berrett or SEAL who behaved like that would be
>kicked out on his ass, that's why. It doesn't fit the character
>conception to behave like that.
>
THEY'RE NOT PLAYING SEALS!!! HE SAID:
>> > I'm talking about Characters with training superior to Green Berretts or
>> > SEALS, going eep and running around acting like ditzes and
training quality does not an archetype make!! just because the gm thinks all
people with high gun skill act like clint eastwood, doesn't mean the
player isn't roleplaying properly if they don't! in fact, they should be
rewarded for avoiding a cliche.
>> > > > Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
>> > > >whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
>> > > >that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
>> > > >ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
>> > > >insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
>> > > >that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
>> > > >is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
>> > > >partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
>> > > >CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
>> > > >to all three.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > yes, and all effect each other: including skills and stats being
partially
>> > > limited.
>
>Save that he stated clearly several times that they are _not_
>partially limited.
>
oh, bull!
>> > I have yet to see and airhead with 20+ PRE, EGO, INT, backed up by
>> > superior training. And no I dont mean dropout from the training
either. We
>> > aren't talking idiot savant, that's a cop out, were talking hyper-competant
>> > chracter with superior stats and skills. This guy would play a Lensman
as a
>> > foolish ditz.
>> >
>>
>> oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is)
>> you're just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want
>> him too!!
>
>No, he bought the characteristic 'Cool' at a high level. He is cool
>under stress and doesn't get rattled, because that is what a high
>Cool means. He can be a coward and run away, or cautious and avoid a
>fight, but he is not rattled, because that is what the characteristic
>means.
>
once again: STATS DON'T AFFECT PERSONALITY!!!! Just because he has the
potential to be 'cool' doesn't mean he has to be!!!
>> frankly, you've missed the point of roleplaying, skills do
>> not cause an archetype of personality!!! the guy could be a savant-
>> or have a split personality-
>
>He specifically stated that the character ALWAYS had the
>characteristic and skill in question, but that the player played the
>character as if the character did not. The character was not a
>savant or a split personality.
>
yes he always had it- how could he not?? by erasing it? by useing hero style
limitations in cyberpunk??
>> or just be a coward anyway!!! btw,,
>> just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand and fight if
>> he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS,
>> not MINIMUMS!!!
>
>He didn't say that the character had a high Cool, but was a coward,
>and he objected. He stated that the character had a high Cool, but
>acted as if they panicked at everything, the exact opposite of a high
>Cool.
>
>Filksinger
>
*sigh* same diif. maybe he's just panicy, but can 'knuckle down' if he needs to
to save his own hide.
Many of the panicy people i've met fall into this category. How else can you
reflect personality like that in cyberpunk- in fact, you'd have to be pretty
anal
to try and get a power modifier like that for a champions character.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:58:08 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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At 01:08 AM 6/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>>
>> > On the other hand, if the character has a high Presence, a cool
>> > professional, and the player just thinks it would be funny if the
>> > character was so scared of the villain that he wet his pants, that is
>> > not in character. It is poor role playing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> oh, really? or is that just because some of us think
>> role-playing=taking yerself too seriously? this ain't the white wolf
>> list, people. . .
>
>Hardly. I never take myself seriously. However, being serious or not
>serious has nothing to do with being in character.
>
yes it does- what is 'in character' can be lax or stringent, and tends to
get a bit lax
in a humorous game, especially if it's only an episode, and the normal game
is serious-
otherwise, the playegs are just a bunch of straight-men, so the gm has to do
all the jokes!!!
>The character above has a stated personal characteristic, that he is
>a cool professional. He also has the game characteristic to back it
>up. For him to suddenly become a gutless wonder, when his character
>is clearly defined as a cool professional with a high Presence, is
>not in character, whether it is funny or not.
>
fair enough
>Suppose your super with the Code vs Killing decided to push a normal
>out of a 30th floor window, because it was amusing? Out of character.
>Being not serious doesn't make it in character.
>
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT is a character ignoring a penalty- it would be like they
were lifting a bus, with only 10 str!!!! the whole conversation
is about the EXACT OPPOSITE of this!!!
>If your professional weightlifter can't lift a cube of butter one
>day, just because it would be amusing, that isn't in character.
>Funny, maybe, but not in character.
>
only if he is a professional weightlifter! and even then, what if
he's been threatened withdeath for lifting? is a plot concept
or a phys lim really any different from the plyer's roleplaying?
the original post made no
mention of character conception whatsoever, just the guys assumptions
about what a 'cool' guy should do.
>> > Now, if you play in a campaign where being in character is valued,
>> > then the first would be OK, but the second would not. OTOH, if you
>> > play in a campaign where being funny is more important than being in
>> > character, then the second would be just fine.
>> >
>> > I suspect that the two sides in this argument actually agree with
>> > each other, but don't realize it.
>> >
>> > Filksinger
>>
>> where was conception ever mentioned? the 'other side'
>> is speaking stats and skills, man.
>
>Earlier in the discussion, in which they stated that stats and
>skills were part of a character conception. More than once.
>
>Filksinger
>
rubbish. sorry, not true, full stop. the skills were described, the
CONCEPTION was not!!! next time, try looking at stuff without your
preconceptions: it is not
obvious to all of us how a stone-cold solo is 'supposed' to act- actually, you
didn't even mention a class as far as i can reccolect. . .
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:58:21 -0400
From: Benoit Goyette <bgoyette@colba.net>
Organization: Multimeg Électronique
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:06:37 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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At 05:49 AM 6/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:35:19 -0700,
>"happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: RolePlaying(WAS:
>Related subject:):
>> > Let's see now how about squeemish, VC, MOD, 0 Points, for a character
with a
>> > 20 EGO and a 20+ PRE with +20 PRE only vs Presence Attacks. This is a
>> > character who is intimidated by just about everything except the badguys.
>> >
>>
>>
>> that's just silly! there are times when points totals are not needed!!!
>>
>>
>
>True, but what about when the points are needed.
this ain't then.
>Why should sombody whose not
>afraid of Mechanon freak when sombody sneaks up on her.
>
because she built mechanon? because she's a classic: afraid little girl who
get's the job done with the aid of friends/powers, who may be terrified of
mechanon but
wasn't GAME EFFECT terrified. 'cause deep down she's a real hero???
because 'someone' is a vampire? because she plays a lot of nintendo? because
she was too stupid to be afraid of a 'big toaster'???
>>
>> > What would you say about a Cool 10 character who uses panic fire whenever
>> > somthing surprises her, then activly fails PER rolls, (only when
convient, ie
>> > not being attacked or in any real danger), so she can fill the person who
>> > surprised her full of lead?
>> >
>>
>> i suppose that's cheating: but what game system do you mean?
>>
>
>I've seen it in Champions, Cyberpunk and Mekton II. Though it does look like
>you're getting my point.
>
no such thing as painic fire in champions. unless you mean that fuzion crud???
or am i missing the point? is this really about gm's being sulky their
players don't
act predictably??
>>
>> > > > How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
>> > > >character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
>> > > >with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
>> > > >Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
>> > > >roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
>> > > >character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
>> > > >player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
>> > > >with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
>> > > >an idiot.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > what about 8 skill and a 20+ "bluf" type skill?? how about a classic
nerd
>> > > with 20 skill but is feeling a bit nervous around all these poeple? or
>> > > someone who only haks well on their favorite smartdrug, because of
>> > > addiction???
>> >
>> > We are not talking on the same level here. We are talking about
charcters who
>> > have consistantly high Skills and Stats, but don't use them.
>> >
>>
>> uh-huh? so am i!!! yer just plain ignoring me!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm talking about Characters with training superior to Green Berretts or
>> > SEALS, going eep and running around acting like ditzes and
>> > idiots--consistantly.
>> >
>>
>> so? why is that BAD???
>>
>>
>
>If you're a whimp or an idiot you don't make it through. That's what the
>training is for.
>
ONCE AGAIN: NOBODY SAID THE CHARACTERS ARE SEALS!!! and were they even
trained??
they could be mutants, or just naturally gifted, or macro-chipped!
>>
>> > > > Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
>> > > >whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
>> > > >that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
>> > > >ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
>> > > >insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
>> > > >that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
>> > > >is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
>> > > >partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
>> > > >CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
>> > > >to all three.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > yes, and all effect each other: including skills and stats being
partially
>> > > limited.
>> >
>> > I have yet to see and airhead with 20+ PRE, EGO, INT, backed up by
>> > superior training. And no I dont mean dropout from the training either.
>We
>> > aren't talking idiot savant, that's a cop out, were talking hyper-competant
>> > chracter with superior stats and skills. This guy would play a Lensman
as a
>> > foolish ditz.
>> >
>>
>> oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is) you're
>> just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
frankly, you've
>> missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
personality!!!
>> the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a coward
>> anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand
and fight
>> if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS,
not MINIMUMS!!!
>
> As a mater of fact one of the characters is supposed to be far superior to
>a Green Berette. The characters are not cowards, savants or split
>personalities, I was there. The characters are idiots and ditzes when it's
>convient to roleplay. No 20 points of Pre, 40 for defence doesn't mean that a
>character has to stand and fight, but it does mean that he's trained himself
>NOT freak out. Thats what Pre only vs Presence attacks is for.
>
>
just because they have those skills. DOESN'T MEAN THEY ACT LIKE CLICHE GREEN
BERETS!!!!
EVEN IF THEY ARE GREEN BERETS!!!!
20 pre means a lot of different things- arnie has a high pre, is he a
trained combat vet?
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:12:00 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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At 06:08 AM 6/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:44:51 -0700,
>"happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
>> > You apperantly don't seem to get it. The player would write up a
character,
>> > then play the character completely different than the way he wrote it.
'Cept
>> > CMS. ^_^
>> >
>>
>> rubbish- are they obeying their personality write up?
>> THAT'S the important thing, the stats don't 'predict' how they will act,
just because
>> you have preconceptions about what a strong willed person would be like.
>> how do they describe their personality?
>
> But I do now how stats are defined in game terms. Mekton II did a surpurb
>good job of defining a Cool 10. Defining something Positively but playing it
>negatively is no more good roleplying than defining something negatively, and
>playing it positively.
>
no, it FAILED!!! It is wrong to put character preconceptions on stats!
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!
WRONG!!!
once again
WRONG!
i'm pretty shure that wasn't a flame. . . unless rtg takes things reeeeeal
personal.
> What if I said the squeemish putz had Overconfidence?
helloooooo?? did you mention this before?
*sigh*
look, just FORGET IT! i'm not going to risk another "stupidgate" incident
on banging my head on a brick wall.
you win, i lose, say whatever you want, it's clear no progress can be made here.
clearly we are not only playing different games, but probably in different
realities, as well.
bye! :->~
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:48:35 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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At 06:35 AM 6/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:14:28 +1000,
>HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
>> At 02:24 PM 6/22/97 -0300, you wrote:
>> >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
>> >
>
>>
>> because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
>>
>
>No you are not sacrificing points for a more coherent character. You are
>getting all the bennies of having a high PRE, EGO, or INT, like high skill
>rolls, good ECV, and execellent base PRE, with out roleplaying having the
>ability. Columbo appears to be a goofball, Minmay from Robotech does not have
>an 18+ INT or 18+ EGO.
>
A SKILL OR STAT DOES NOT COME WITH PERSONALITY TRAITS ATTACHED! You don't
have to roleplay somehow being 'skilled' in that way: how does a crfack shot
act? or an
expert martial artis? yes, the gm has preconceptions about how such people
'have' to act- but he should be more mature than acting like he has the
right to inflict them on the players!!!
>> >
>> >> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
>> >
>> >I don't see how that relates at all.
>>
>> like you said:
>> >> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
>> >> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
>> >> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
>> >> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
>> >> >do it in Hero.
>
> Of course Spidey doesn't use hif full strength all the time, he's die of
>thirst because he's destroy the glass everytime he went to get a drink of
>water. Spidey shows something called restraint. He doesn't break some poor
>thug in half killing him just beacuse the thug was sneaking up on him with a
>gun and he overreacted. He has a briain and he uses it.
>
u-huh?? and what's the difference? his 'player' has a motive for that, so do
theirs.
and how about drinking straight from the tap?
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:51:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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>the main suit is a body stocking (standard Superhero wear) that is
>Prison/ConstructionCone Orange (ok nothing too bad so far)
>the mask or cowl is a lovely Peagreen with dark purple stripes the eye
>lenses are bright primary blue (anybody feeling queezy?) and is tied at
>the back of the head.... the ties reaching all the way to the ground
>(tripping hazard & and easily grabbed)
>on top of this we have an oversized Swashbucklers hat in Yellow ochre
>with a neon pink band, the floppy brim of this hat extends out past the
>shoulders while the turquoise plume sticks straight up and is almost 3
>feet long (everyone OK?)
>the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
>interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
>does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
>metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
>to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
>(approx 15feet long and at least 9feet wide)
>the trunks, gloves and boots (also shiney vinyl) are pastel pink with
>straps and belts of varied colors (hypnotic isn't it?) the cuffs on the
>boots and gloves are so large that a small dog (Benji, Tbone, Spuds)
>could ride comfortably..... the boots are supposedd to be thigh high ans
>will some times stay there but ususally the fall down around the
>ankles.... the gloves have no set place of rest but make a nice flapping
>noise whenever a gesture is made
>finally we get to the Utilitybelt...... flat balck (he messed up trying
>to draw in some details) about the diameter of a hula-hoop this belt
>rests on the hip opposite the one for the pistol holster..... the other
>side rests somewhere above the knee........ the hoster and accompyning
>belt are bright candyapple red.... the pistol is ivory.... this belt
>hangs in the same manor as the Utilitybelt.... the pistol has a cable
>that connects it to a small powerpack on the utility belt and a cable
>connecting it to a clasp around the right wrist..... the pistol is
>holstered on the leftside of the body
This reminds me of a character called Hyperman who was in a campaign I was
part of back at Carnegie-Mellon University in the mid-eighties. All of the
characters had very strange concepts (we were the second string hero team,
kinda like the Legion of Alternate Heroes). There was a mutant rat who
thought he was Mighty Mouse, a rip off of the Toxic Avenger, a contemplative
android martial artist (think Data) who chose the name Penetrator to reflect
the character's lack of creativity, a dude (say "Dewwwwwd") called Captain
California (a brick with a flying surfboard and a flash attack from his too,
too white teeth who wore only bikini briefs {the game was also set in
Pittsburg and he had no resistance to the cold}), my own character named
Pull-Youself-Together Man (Brownie points for anyone who knows where I stole
the name) still a favorite that I have written up a dozen different ways
since), a few other oddities, and the aforementioned Hyperman. Hyperman was
a strange (and I do mean strange) visitor from another dimension, he was a
wimpy little man (scrawny arms, sunken chest, pencil neck) with hugely
muscled and powerful legs until he activated his density increase and made
the rest of his body match the legs. He had a variety of powers based on his
ability to be partially present in several alternate dimensions
simultaneously. The thing was that one of our players (the player of
Penetrator) was a former professional graphic artists and he agreed to draw
all of the characters individually and en masse. Well we had been playing
for several weeks and the player of Hyperman still had not been able to
describe his costume ("I'm working on it . . .), so one session when he was
not present the rest of the group collaboratively costumed Hyperman 8), and
we did a number on him . . .
Carter Humphrey
BeerCarboy@AOL.com
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:59:50 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
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At 11:49 PM 6/24/97 -0300, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>Previous edition. That restriction wasn't included in 4E, but IMO it's
>necessary for game balance. (Classic example: Transform aluminum cans into
>slavishly devoted near-omnipotent beings, 15 points).
IMO, the BBB is the "Doomsday edition" of the HERO system -- it does not
supplement previous editions, it entirely replaces them. Ergo, this rule is
NO LONGER PART of the HERO system.
Since Transform bluntly and explicitly requires GM approval to function,
above and beyond the stop sign ("The GM must approve any Transform before
the player can use it."), game balance is already covered. As a GUIDELINE,
GMs can easily use the "can't add points" bit, but I prefer having the
flexibility to occasionally create empowering Transforms (such as Transform:
Human into Vampire). That's a feature, not a bug.
If players here want to advise people to use the static point guideline, I'm
all for it. Just don't leave them with the (false) impression that it's
part of the HERO core rules.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Charcter/Power Idea: Golem
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Now that you fine folks have answered all my questions on transform,
I've naturally thought of something more complicated (I think I have
a subconsious desire to be confused)... anyway, here goes:
Imagine a character by the name of Golem who can sculpt clay statues.
If that was all he could do, he would simply be a starving artist.
What makes Golem unique is that he can bring these statues to life.
For instance, if he sculpts a clay statue of a television and uses
his power, he will have a perfectly good, working television. He
can sculpt people and living things as well, but they will not be
sentient or active. They will lie comatose. Golem can, however,
possess these clay simulcrams with a limited form of mind control.
Golem's body will lie immobile, but Golem will have complete control
of the mindless simulcram (which has an EGO of 0). Golem is even
able to instill a limited amount of superpowers on the things he
creates. For instance, Golem could sculpt a clay statue of the team's
energy projector, and Golem would be able to shoot out energy when
he possesses the body. Also, golem could sculpt animals, possess them,
and gain their natural abilities. If a simulcram Golem possesses dies,
Golem will simply wake up in his normal body, and the corpse of the
simulcram will turn back into clay.
There are limitations to Golem's powers of course. Firstly, he can
only have so much clay brought to life at a time. Secondly, Golem's
creations can only have so much power. For instance, the energy bolts
shot out by the energy projector simulcram would probably be less
powerful. Lastly, away from Golem's influence, anything he creates will
slowly turn back into clay (over the course of a few days to a week).
So how does one implement this? Duplication seems conceptually simplest,
but the problem with this is that when duplicates die, it's permanent.
Golem is able to create a new simulcram if one dies. I'm thinking power
pool, but how do you create a power pool that applies to newly created
items and creatures?
how about:
Transform (Clay->Real Item or Creature) +
Mind Scan (Only vs Simulcram, 0 DCV) +
Mind Control (Continuous, Only vs Simulcram, 0 DCV) +
Clairasentince (Normal Sight, Sound, Smell, Taste; Only vs Simulcram, 0
DCV, Linked to Mind Control) +
Power Pool (must manifest in animated clay object/Linked to transform) ?
-Eric
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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At 10:26 PM 6/24/97 +0000, filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>There are two ways in which a player character might act in a way
>that does not match his characteristics or skills. One is a non-point
>Disadvantage on a character, his characteristics, or skills. This is
>what HAPPYELF is suggesting is OK, but it is not what the other
>person is complaining about. The other is poor role playing, where
>the character isn't behaving in character. This is what the other
>poster is complaining about.
Then again, there's always Acting -- undercover work, protecting your
Secret Identity, and that sort of thing. You know, like when Peter Parker
of Clark Kent have to pretend to be not as strong as they really are so
nobody starts asking questions about Spider-Man or Superman.
---
VISUALIZE WORLD DOMINATION
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:53:39 +0100
From: Timothy Hayes <TH119@mercury.anglia.ac.uk>
Subject: unsubscribe
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unsubscribe th119@mercury.anglia.ac.uk
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Charcter/Power Idea: Golem
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:01:54 -0400
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How about a mimic pool
requires a sculpted focus -1/2
only change/sculpt at lab -1/2
only powers of sculpted target -1/2
only as much power as target -1/2
leaves physical body behind when possessing a sculpture -1/2
Link some extra BODY to the pool, stating that when the clay's BODY is
destroyed, the sculpture is dead, and Golem's pool turns off and his
consciousness is thrown back into his own body.
He might need a triggered teleport linked to the sculpture's death,
though, to get back to his own body.
Dave Mattingly
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Character/Power Idea: Golem
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:07:07 -0400 (EDT)
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I was just thinking, could you simulate the ability to sense what someone
else is sensing through a telepathy limited to the question "what are you
sensing?" (-1/2? -1/4? -0?) rather than the very costly clairsentience
(x2048 Range, normal sight, hearing, smell, taste)?
-Eric
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:25:55 -0700
From: mtelford@vancouver.net (Michael Telford)
Reply-To: mtelford@vancouver.net
Subject: Adress change
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Apologies for wasting bandwidth - but would the list adminstrator
please move me to thi adress? Thank you.
X-Sender: derekh@thyme.cisco.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:37:34 -0700
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekh@cisco.com>
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subscribe mm-xp-18 tbeecher
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:59:39 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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no, it wasn't. It was in an anual, i think- he was fighting the lizard and a subway landed on him-anual or anniversary issue, i'm shure.
he's done lots of funky stuf over the years
At 02:44 PM 6/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Your probably quite mistaken, about the Spider-Man strength feat unless this
>took place in one of the Cosmic-Powered Spidey stories! What issue was this
>in? I'am nearly positive though, that if this did ever happen it was when
>Spider-Man had the Uni-Power of the Captain Universe energy! Not just a
>regular Spider-Man!
>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:05:39 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-UID: 70
Trevor Barrie wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
>
> > >> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
> > >
> > >Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
> > >he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> >
> > because you are sacrificing points to play a more cohernt character!!!
>
> Huh? If I want to play a weak-willed character, how does buying that
> character a 20 EGO make him more "coherent"?
>
because he can decide how strong willed the character is in different situations!!!
better that the reverse, yes??
> > >> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > >
> > >I don't see how that relates at all.
see below.
> >
> > like you said:
> > >> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> > >> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> > >> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> > >> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> > >> >do it in Hero.
>
> A) I didn't say that
\/\/ whatever \/\/
> B) I still don't see how your observation on Spider-Man relates even
> vaguely to the circumstances being described. (I don't see that it's true,
> either, but that's beside the point.)
*sigh* if spidey or supes can 'play' below stat level, why can't players?? and spidey
once lifted a whole subway system, not to mention numerous other epic feats. . .
too numerous to be an 'epic feat' type power. and what about supes??
look forget it: you are obviously of the 'points for everything, big or small camp.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:39:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote:
> At 11:49 PM 6/24/97 -0300, Trevor Barrie wrote:
> >Previous edition. That restriction wasn't included in 4E, but IMO it's
> >necessary for game balance. (Classic example: Transform aluminum cans into
> >slavishly devoted near-omnipotent beings, 15 points).
>
> IMO, the BBB is the "Doomsday edition" of the HERO system -- it does not
> supplement previous editions, it entirely replaces them. Ergo, this rule is
> NO LONGER PART of the HERO system.
Clearly correct.
> Since Transform bluntly and explicitly requires GM approval to function,
> above and beyond the stop sign ("The GM must approve any Transform before
> the player can use it."), game balance is already covered.
All Powers require GM approval; explicitly stating this doesn't change
anything. If it specifically said that Transforms which increase point
totals weren't allowed without GM's permission, that would be fine (since
it's generally recognized that "only with GM's permission" is BBB-speak
for "NO"), but flagging the Power as a whole doesn't help the GM
identify wonky constructs.
> As a GUIDELINE, GMs can easily use the "can't add points" bit, but I prefer
> having the flexibility to occasionally create empowering Transforms (such
> as Transform: Human into Vampire). That's a feature, not a bug.
Transform linked to Aid or Transform linked to Summon handle these sort of
things just fine. The problem with "Transform as Aid" is that Transform's
cost is based on RKA. Thus, when you buy a major Transform you've paid for
the ability to completely disable your target if you want; however,
nothing in the cost of Transform reflects the usefulness of the resulting
object, so another mechanic should be added for this.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 25 Jun 1997 18:05:58 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Remember one important point: while Transformation will not add points to
the "victim" (use UBO or UAO powers for this) it may be used to either
change the victim's point allocations as well as give them Disadvantages.
Use of these aspects of Transformation will allow one to give new abilities
to the victim, but at the same time he will lose something or gain
Disadvantages of equal value.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:35:19 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 75
> Let's see now how about squeemish, VC, MOD, 0 Points, for a character with a
> 20 EGO and a 20+ PRE with +20 PRE only vs Presence Attacks. This is a
> character who is intimidated by just about everything except the badguys.
>
that's just silly! there are times when points totals are not needed!!!
> What would you say about a Cool 10 character who uses panic fire whenever
> somthing surprises her, then activly fails PER rolls, (only when convient, ie
> not being attacked or in any real danger), so she can fill the person who
> surprised her full of lead?
>
i suppose that's cheating: but what game system do you mean?
> > > How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
> > >character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
> > >with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
> > >Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
> > >roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
> > >character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
> > >player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
> > >with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
> > >an idiot.
> > >
> >
> > what about 8 skill and a 20+ "bluf" type skill?? how about a classic nerd
> > with 20 skill but is feeling a bit nervous around all these poeple? or
> > someone who only haks well on their favorite smartdrug, because of
> > addiction???
>
> We are not talking on the same level here. We are talking about charcters who
> have consistantly high Skills and Stats, but don't use them.
>
uh-huh? so am i!!! yer just plain ignoring me!!!
> I'm talking about Characters with training superior to Green Berretts or
> SEALS, going eep and running around acting like ditzes and
> idiots--consistantly.
>
so? why is that BAD???
> > > Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
> > >whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
> > >that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
> > >ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
> > >insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
> > >that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
> > >is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
> > >partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
> > >CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
> > >to all three.
> > >
> >
> > yes, and all effect each other: including skills and stats being partially
> > limited.
>
> I have yet to see and airhead with 20+ PRE, EGO, INT, backed up by
> superior training. And no I dont mean dropout from the training either. We
> aren't talking idiot savant, that's a cop out, were talking hyper-competant
> chracter with superior stats and skills. This guy would play a Lensman as a
> foolish ditz.
>
oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is) you're
just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!! frankly, you've
missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of personality!!!
the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a coward
anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand and fight
if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not MINIMUMS!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:44:51 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 76
> You apperantly don't seem to get it. The player would write up a character,
> then play the character completely different than the way he wrote it. 'Cept
> CMS. ^_^
>
rubbish- are they obeying their personality write up?
THAT'S the important thing, the stats don't 'predict' how they will act, just because
you have preconceptions about what a strong willed person would be like.
how do they describe their personality?
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:48:03 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:35 PM 6/25/97 -0700, happyelf!!!! wrote:
>> I'm talking about Characters with training superior to Green Berretts or
>> SEALS, going eep and running around acting like ditzes and
>> idiots--consistantly.
>>
>
>so? why is that BAD???
Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your character
the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human). Got
it?
>oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is) you're
>just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
frankly, you've
>missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
personality!!!
No you've missed the point! The point is that if you defined the
character as "Super Cool" (ie 20+ PRE), he SHOULD NOT freak, he should not
act like a dweeb, and in general he should not be easily impressed, UNLESS
you have specifically defined a set of cicumstances under which his "Super
Coolness" does not help him. Which is to say, unless he has a
disad/limitation stating this....
>the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a coward
>anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand
and fight
>if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not
MINIMUMS!!!
Wrong again! The stats are VALUES, they cannot be pushed beyond the set
amount or lowered below it. As an example I have seen many Intellegent
people try to act stupid, none were convincing. I have seen stupid people
TRY to act intellegent, again it fails miserably.
The sole exception to this is STR, damage can be pulled, or (in extremis)
a person can exceed his normal maxima. This is solely to enable a character
to perform in a HEROIC manner... ie: it is a genre thing.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:05:12 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 77
filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>
> For example, if your character with the high Presence finds himself
> in an actual haunted house, and the player says that the character is
> really nervous about ghosts, and is easily frightened so long as he
> is in the house, then that's ok, if it is all right with the GM for
> him to add a no-point Disadvantage at that time. It is in character
> (as the player conceives the character), and good role playing.
>
> On the other hand, if the character has a high Presence, a cool
> professional, and the player just thinks it would be funny if the
> character was so scared of the villain that he wet his pants, that is
> not in character. It is poor role playing.
oh, really? or is that just because some of us think role-playing=taking yerself too
seriously? this ain't the white wolf list, people. . .
>
> Now, if you play in a campaign where being in character is valued,
> then the first would be OK, but the second would not. OTOH, if you
> play in a campaign where being funny is more important than being in
> character, then the second would be just fine.
>
> I suspect that the two sides in this argument actually agree with
> each other, but don't realize it.
>
> Filksinger
where was conception ever mentioned? the 'other side'
is speaking stats and skills, man.
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:16:00 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:39 PM 6/25/97 -0300, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote:
>> Since Transform bluntly and explicitly requires GM approval to function,
>> above and beyond the stop sign ("The GM must approve any Transform before
>> the player can use it."), game balance is already covered.
>
>All Powers require GM approval; explicitly stating this doesn't change
>anything. If it specifically said that Transforms which increase point
>totals weren't allowed without GM's permission, that would be fine (since
>it's generally recognized that "only with GM's permission" is BBB-speak
>for "NO"), but flagging the Power as a whole doesn't help the GM
>identify wonky constructs.
If "only with GM's permission" means "No", that would mean Transform is
inherently illegal, yes? Sort of a waste of paper putting it in and all,
then. :/ Forgive me if I challenge the conventional wisdom by declaring
that "only with GM's permission" means it would only be allowed after the GM
looks at it and permits it to enter his game. (Ooh, rebel me).
Flagging the power as a whole points out simply that because Transform is
THE most free-form power in the game, capable of effectively "adding" or
"subtracting" points by fiat, it won't work unless the GM (King of Fiat)
gets to look at it first. In short, it's an alert to the GM that this is
the highest wonk-potential ability in the game, so be extra careful.
>Transform linked to Aid or Transform linked to Summon handle these sort of
>things just fine.
IMO, Transform alone handles it just fine, too, and has the added advantage
of being the way the rules tell you to do it. ;]
> The problem with "Transform as Aid" is that Transform's cost is based on
> RKA. Thus, when you buy a major Transform you've paid for the ability to
> completely disable your target if you want; however, nothing in the cost
> of Transform reflects the usefulness of the resulting object, so another
> mechanic should be added for this.
Hasn't someone already pointed out that Transform is generally less
effective than an RKA? To be more accurate, it's based off the cost of an
RKA big enough to waste someone in one shot. A 3d6+1 RKA is a scary weapon
which will leave the average person bleeding in the dirt, dead without
medical attention in a couple minutes. A 3d6+1 Major Transform is USELESS
against the average person (maximum roll of 19, not good enough). I chose
this value because 50 points is described in the Designer's Notes as "pretty
good". If a "pretty good" Transform is useless ...?
Also, note that one of their examples for a MINOR transform (dagger into
sword) implies a point shift of (at least) +5.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
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Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:16:02 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:05 PM 6/25/97 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Remember one important point: while Transformation will not add points to
>the "victim" (use UBO or UAO powers for this) it may be used to either
>change the victim's point allocations as well as give them Disadvantages.
This should be rephrased "while your GM may not allow Transforms to add
points to the 'victim' in his campaign, it might still be used to ..."
By the book, Transformation most certainly can "add" points to the 'victim'.
For example, changing a dagger into a short sword (used as an example of a
Minor Transform) increases the dagger's RKA by 5 active points (which
probably works out to 1 points after limitations like Focus, STR Min, etc.).
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:27:17 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:54 PM 6/22/97 -0400, Sean Pavlish wrote:
>> It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
>>
>> 6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
>> That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
>> the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
>> hit the poor defenseless hex.
>uhm, I believe that ego attack is 10 per die.. thus, it would be 120
active....
>not 60.
Yeah, I know, oops. Still, a 3d6 EGO Attack is usually pretty good against
the majority of your foes. And a bunch of people have pointed out the 4d6
BOECV, AoE line for 60 active.
Joe
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:57:55 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>The greater the disad, the worse the reaction. A 5 point limitation
>would probably just land him on the worst dressed list, comments being
>made every so often. Pretty much a role-playing only disad.
>If he takes a 20 pointer, then he'll probably get picked on by people
>with obscuring attacks, get the fashion police as a hunted etc...
A 20 point disad for bad clothing would have to cause some kind of nausea
in an observer. I don't think poor fashion sense could ever be a
Distinctive Feature with an Extreme Reaction.
>p.s. Fashion Police have instant change usable on others, etc...
A friend of mine always wanted to make a character called Fashion Bug.
Instant Change UAO was the idea.
Joe
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:34:09 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:24 PM 6/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>> >so? why is that BAD???
>>>
>>> Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your character
>>> the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
>>> should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human).
>>> Got it?
>>
>>oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of
>>clhiche perceptions of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you
>>think all smart people can spell perfectly?
>
>Umm, actually, the "cliche perceptions" are the _rules_. The Hero System
>Rulebook pretty clearly spells out what each stat means, regardless of
>your interpretations of the names of said stats.
>
> Donald
>
wrong. it does not state that high-pre characters are super-cool as such and can't be
scared unless they fail a pre or ego resistance. It doesn't say all combat trained characters act like green berets. It doesn't say high int characters are
super-confident and competent and are always right and ultra-serious unless they fail
an int roll or whatever.
or are we talking fuzion again??
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:43:54 +1000
From: d9411257@helios.usq.edu.au (Gregory Stille)
Reply-To: d9411257@helios.usq.edu.au
Subject: unsubscribe
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
unsubscribe
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:00:36 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: DON'T SEND UNSUBSCRIBE MESSAGES TO THE LIST!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
the correct address for unsubscription is "champ-request@omg.org&"
Just because a bunch of other ignorant people do the wrong thing, doesn't
mean you should too.
Donald
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:12:13 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>Umm, actually, the "cliche perceptions" are the _rules_. The Hero System
>>Rulebook pretty clearly spells out what each stat means, regardless of
>>your interpretations of the names of said stats.
>
>
>>wrong. it does not state that high-pre characters are super-cool as such
>>and can't be scared unless they fail a pre or ego resistance.
>
>Is that what I said? No. The Hero System does define what the Presence
>stat is ("This Characteristic shows the forcefullness and charisma
>of a character. Presence allows the character to impress or awe others
>and resist the effects of another person [or event]'s high Presence.")
>
>It does give rules on how NPCs will react, given different levels of
>scariness (PRE attack). It's only natural that PCs should *generally*
>have the same sorts of reactions.
>
>
yes- hence i'm right!! i never argued against that- i said they were limits to game mechanics!!!
>>It doesn't say all combat trained characters act like green berets. It
>>doesn't say high int characters are super-confident and competent and are
>>always right and ultra-serious unless they fail an int roll or whatever.
>
>That's a seriously bad straw-man argument. It *does* mean that high-Int
>people should be able to figure things out. Unless the character then
>lies about it, this means high-Int characters shouldn't say "duh, I
>dunno" when they're asked to figure out a puzzle.
>
>
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY!! those descriptions were the like the assumptions being made by others in this discussion. Ande besides, are all smart people really good at puzzles? i think not- how about rubix cubes? are you suggesting it as an intelligance test??
>>or are we talking fuzion again??
>
>If you can't learn to be civil, I suggest you leave the list. And for
>heaven's sake, learn to hit return at 70-75 columns...
>
> Donald
>
what- "fuzion"
is a swear word? *lol*
well, in that cas:
fuzion!!
fuzion!!!
fuzionfuzionfuzion!!!
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:05:22 -0700
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: Role Playing(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:19 AM 6/26/97 -0700, happyelf!!!! wrote:
>> >so? why is that BAD???
>>
>> Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your
character
>> the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
>> should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human). Got
>> it?
>>
>
>
>oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of
clhiche perceptions
>of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you think all smart people
can spell
>perfectly?
I myself prefer to have several different ways to spell a word, keeps me on
my toes. But seriously, a GM is within his rights to expect players to buy
stats appropriate to their character conception, and not just by stats for
a better 'roll'. If a player wants a 20 INT, he should play an intelligent
character. This can be done several ways, not every high int character is
college graduate, computer genius, or sleuth. However, if the player
ignores the INT stat, playing the character 'smart' when he has to make a
skill or INT roll, and dumb to get attention or have fun, then there is a
problem with that character's concept, and a GM has the right to talk to
the player about it.
>
>
>> >oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is)
you're
>> >just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
>> frankly, you've
>> >missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
>> personality!!!
>>
>> No you've missed the point! The point is that if you defined the
>> character as "Super Cool" (ie 20+ PRE), he SHOULD NOT freak, he should not
>> act like a dweeb, and in general he should not be easily impressed, UNLESS
>> you have specifically defined a set of cicumstances under which his "Super
>> Coolness" does not help him. Which is to say, unless he has a
>> disad/limitation stating this....
>>
>
>HE WASN'T DEFINED AS THAT!!!!! unless he writes 'super cool' in his
character
>description, he isn't super cool!!! once again, you have this idea that
your stats
>determine your personality
>THEY DON'T AT ALL!!
>EVER!
>OK?
Actually, No. It's not okay. First off, your all caps reaction is akin to
shouting. Secondly, if a Game Master states; "If you have a high Presence,
I expect you to play a cool, confident character unless you have a psyc
disad that states otherwise", then, quite simply, that's the way it works
in that Game Master's game.
Insisting that Stats never determine characteristics, is only true in
_your_ game. You can say its not a good idea to use stats solely for
determining personality, but to demand that every GM consider cha
>
>they are abstract limits to game mechanics- nothing more.
>
They are also a guideline for what to expect from a character. If someone
buys a 20 STR, I, as a GM, would expect to see a brawny, muscular person,
unless some other limitation or explanation was provided.
>
>
>> >the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a
coward
>> >anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand
>> and fight
>> >if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not
>> MINIMUMS!!!
>>
>> Wrong again! The stats are VALUES, they cannot be pushed beyond the set
>> amount or lowered below it. As an example I have seen many Intellegent
>> people try to act stupid, none were convincing. I have seen stupid people
>> TRY to act intellegent, again it fails miserably.
>
>nonsence!! intelligant people can act stupid, and be stupid!!! you just
can't seem to
>comprehend that!
>
Sure they can, but if the character has purchased a high intelligence, then
made no mention that despite his high intelligence, he's an idiot, or
socially inept, absent minded, or prone to bouts of delirium, a Game Master
is perfectly justified in expecting the player to abide by the character's
stats.
The same can be expected if a character bought the psyc-disad, afraid of
water. The Game Master naturally expects the player to RP that fear.
>
>> The sole exception to this is STR, damage can be pulled, or (in extremis)
>> a person can exceed his normal maxima. This is solely to enable a character
>> to perform in a HEROIC manner... ie: it is a genre thing.
>>
>
>the sole exception? ALL STATS CAN BE LIMITED!!!
>
>str can be limited in all games- as can ANY OTHER STAT!!!
>I repeat:
>ANY OTHER STAT!
>
>
>there is no rule saying you have to do maximum damage, or move maximum
move or whatever
>the same applies to 'non-physical' stats.
>
Actually, shouting aside, you're both right and wrong here. A Game Master
can allow a player to function with a lower than usual stat other then
Strength, but only with permission. The Hero System gives rules for
handling pulling a punch, and thereby do less strength related damage.
However, no where in the rules does it state that a characters INT roll can
be INT/5+9 or (INT-1)/5+9 or (INT-2)/5+9.
To say that any stat can be limited up to any amount at a players whim, is
only true for your game, and possibly other Game Masters that agree with you.
>look, this has nothing to do with the rules- it has to do with certain
people
>clearly not having the slightest clue what roleplaying is about. We can
keep this
>argument up indeffinitely, i am happy to.
Not very constructive, but certainly bandwidth producing.
-Nic
+------------------------------------------------------+
| naneiden@iswest.com |
| Justice, Like Lightning, Thunderbolts! |
| http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/thunder.html |
| Costumed Heroines |
| http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/ |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:12:03 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Role Playing(WAS: Related subject:)
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:05 PM 6/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 10:19 AM 6/26/97 -0700, happyelf!!!! wrote:
>>> >so? why is that BAD???
>>>
>>> Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your
>character
>>> the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
>>> should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human). Got
>>> it?
>>>
>>
>>
>>oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of
>clhiche perceptions
>>of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you think all smart people
>can spell
>>perfectly?
>
>I myself prefer to have several different ways to spell a word, keeps me on
>my toes. But seriously, a GM is within his rights to expect players to buy
>stats appropriate to their character conception, and not just by stats for
>a better 'roll'. If a player wants a 20 INT, he should play an intelligent
>character. This can be done several ways, not every high int character is
>college graduate, computer genius, or sleuth. However, if the player
>ignores the INT stat, playing the character 'smart' when he has to make a
>skill or INT roll, and dumb to get attention or have fun, then there is a
>problem with that character's concept, and a GM has the right to talk to
>the player about it.
>
but what if it's spelt out in his concept?
>>
>>
>>> >oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is)
>you're
>>> >just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
>>> frankly, you've
>>> >missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
>>> personality!!!
>>>
>>> No you've missed the point! The point is that if you defined the
>>> character as "Super Cool" (ie 20+ PRE), he SHOULD NOT freak, he should not
>>> act like a dweeb, and in general he should not be easily impressed, UNLESS
>>> you have specifically defined a set of cicumstances under which his "Super
>>> Coolness" does not help him. Which is to say, unless he has a
>>> disad/limitation stating this....
>>>
>>
>>HE WASN'T DEFINED AS THAT!!!!! unless he writes 'super cool' in his
>character
>>description, he isn't super cool!!! once again, you have this idea that
>your stats
>>determine your personality
>>THEY DON'T AT ALL!!
>>EVER!
>>OK?
>
>Actually, No. It's not okay. First off, your all caps reaction is akin to
>shouting. Secondly, if a Game Master states; "If you have a high Presence,
>I expect you to play a cool, confident character unless you have a psyc
>disad that states otherwise", then, quite simply, that's the way it works
>in that Game Master's game.
>
u-huh? does he getv to decide what the pc says too? and was this made clear to
begin with ? NO! hence the caps!
>Insisting that Stats never determine characteristics, is only true in
>_your_ game. You can say its not a good idea to use stats solely for
>determining personality, but to demand that every GM consider cha
>
no, i'm suggesting it's true for 'good' or 'better' roleplaying. If
we all just keep to the "just my opinion" cliche, what's the point of the
list? to swop character sheets???
>>
>>they are abstract limits to game mechanics- nothing more.
>>
>
>They are also a guideline for what to expect from a character. If someone
>buys a 20 STR, I, as a GM, would expect to see a brawny, muscular person,
>unless some other limitation or explanation was provided.
>
u-huh? and what does con and pre have to do with that? what if they're a
slender 'grey' type alien? yes, thse are other explanations: my point is, they
aren't any more or less valid than the gm's preconceptons!
>>
>>
>>> >the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a
>coward
>>> >anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand
>>> and fight
>>> >if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not
>>> MINIMUMS!!!
>>>
>>> Wrong again! The stats are VALUES, they cannot be pushed beyond the set
>>> amount or lowered below it. As an example I have seen many Intellegent
>>> people try to act stupid, none were convincing. I have seen stupid people
>>> TRY to act intellegent, again it fails miserably.
>>
>>nonsence!! intelligant people can act stupid, and be stupid!!! you just
>can't seem to
>>comprehend that!
>>
>
>Sure they can, but if the character has purchased a high intelligence, then
>made no mention that despite his high intelligence, he's an idiot, or
>socially inept, absent minded, or prone to bouts of delirium, a Game Master
>is perfectly justified in expecting the player to abide by the character's
>stats.
>
did they make mention? or were they given an oppurtunity to make mention?
The original post did not sound very reasonable in this respect.
>The same can be expected if a character bought the psyc-disad, afraid of
>water. The Game Master naturally expects the player to RP that fear.
>
yes- but can't he just have a 0- points psyc lim, like crusader in the BBB?
and if so, can't he have a sort of
"psyc lim- ditz- acts silly usually despite high intelligance"?
once again, from the tome of the original post, i doubt this was an option.
>>
>>> The sole exception to this is STR, damage can be pulled, or (in extremis)
>>> a person can exceed his normal maxima. This is solely to enable a character
>>> to perform in a HEROIC manner... ie: it is a genre thing.
>>>
>>
>>the sole exception? ALL STATS CAN BE LIMITED!!!
>>
>>str can be limited in all games- as can ANY OTHER STAT!!!
>>I repeat:
>>ANY OTHER STAT!
>>
>>
>>there is no rule saying you have to do maximum damage, or move maximum
>move or whatever
>>the same applies to 'non-physical' stats.
>>
>
>Actually, shouting aside, you're both right and wrong here. A Game Master
>can allow a player to function with a lower than usual stat other then
>Strength, but only with permission. The Hero System gives rules for
>handling pulling a punch, and thereby do less strength related damage.
>However, no where in the rules does it state that a characters INT roll can
>be INT/5+9 or (INT-1)/5+9 or (INT-2)/5+9.
>
or the player can just say: "gee, i have good deduction, but since i'm a bigoted alien,
i am likely to underestimate these human criminals"??? once again, no psyc lim
is required!!!!
>To say that any stat can be limited up to any amount at a players whim, is
>only true for your game, and possibly other Game Masters that agree with you.
>
>
not whim- we're talking consistent play here- and hence it's not a whim,
it's a personality trait, and a darn sight better that nothing!
>>look, this has nothing to do with the rules- it has to do with certain
>people
>>clearly not having the slightest clue what roleplaying is about. We can
>keep this
>>argument up indeffinitely, i am happy to.
>
>Not very constructive, but certainly bandwidth producing.
>
>-Nic
u-huh? i already tried to stop once. . . .btw..
fuzion!!! *lol*
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:26:03 -0700
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: Role Playing(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:12 PM 6/26/97 +1000, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
>At 09:05 PM 6/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>I myself prefer to have several different ways to spell a word, keeps me on
>>my toes. But seriously, a GM is within his rights to expect players to buy
>>stats appropriate to their character conception, and not just by stats for
>>a better 'roll'. If a player wants a 20 INT, he should play an intelligent
>>character. This can be done several ways, not every high int character is
>>college graduate, computer genius, or sleuth. However, if the player
>>ignores the INT stat, playing the character 'smart' when he has to make a
>>skill or INT roll, and dumb to get attention or have fun, then there is a
>>problem with that character's concept, and a GM has the right to talk to
>>the player about it.
>>
>
>but what if it's spelt out in his concept?
>
Then I don't see a problem. The original poster seemed to be stressing that
the player designed a character one way, and RPed it another. If the
character had psyc disads explaining unusual behavior, or he explained to
the GM his personality, then you're correct, he shouldn't be limited by the
numerical value of his stats. However, if there is nothing more to go on
than the INT stat, then the player should be expected to RP it.
>>
>>Actually, No. It's not okay. First off, your all caps reaction is akin to
>>shouting. Secondly, if a Game Master states; "If you have a high Presence,
>>I expect you to play a cool, confident character unless you have a psyc
>>disad that states otherwise", then, quite simply, that's the way it works
>>in that Game Master's game.
>>
>
>u-huh? does he getv to decide what the pc says too? and was this made
clear to
>begin with ? NO! hence the caps!
I still don't see how 'shouting' does anything useful.
>
>
>>Insisting that Stats never determine characteristics, is only true in
>>_your_ game. You can say its not a good idea to use stats solely for
>>determining personality, but to demand that every GM consider cha
>>
>
>no, i'm suggesting it's true for 'good' or 'better' roleplaying. If
>we all just keep to the "just my opinion" cliche, what's the point of the
>list? to swop character sheets???
To exchange ideas, not dictate policy. I give an example of a character, or
a RP idea and ask for feedback. Or in this case, comment on someone else's
opinions. Its never good to say "This is the best way to do things,
everyone else who doesn't do this is a poor RPer". There is nothing
constructive in that statement. IF on the other hand, you say, "In my game,
I've found that if I let players ignore the stat numbers and emphasize
their personalities." That says something, without dictating that some else
is wrong.
>
>
>
>>
>>They are also a guideline for what to expect from a character. If someone
>>buys a 20 STR, I, as a GM, would expect to see a brawny, muscular person,
>>unless some other limitation or explanation was provided.
>>
>
>
>u-huh? and what does con and pre have to do with that? what if they're a
>slender 'grey' type alien? yes, thse are other explanations: my point is,
they
>aren't any more or less valid than the gm's preconceptons!
>
Well, since a GM is the final authority, then his 'preconceptions' are more
valid than what the player might assume. And, if they are an alien, then
that is the explanation/limitation I would expect, (Distinctive Looks:
Slim, Grey Alien) even a limitation (DL: Real strong, but is built like a
proverbial 90lb weakling) should be enough.
>
>>
>>Sure they can, but if the character has purchased a high intelligence, then
>>made no mention that despite his high intelligence, he's an idiot, or
>>socially inept, absent minded, or prone to bouts of delirium, a Game Master
>>is perfectly justified in expecting the player to abide by the character's
>>stats.
>>
>
>did they make mention? or were they given an oppurtunity to make mention?
>The original post did not sound very reasonable in this respect.
>
No, there wasn't a complete explanation, however, you were arguing that the
original poster didn't seem to understand that someone who is highly
intelligent can't act foolishly, which I think is an oversimplification of
the original poster's point.
>
>>The same can be expected if a character bought the psyc-disad, afraid of
>>water. The Game Master naturally expects the player to RP that fear.
>>
>
>yes- but can't he just have a 0- points psyc lim, like crusader in the BBB?
>and if so, can't he have a sort of
>"psyc lim- ditz- acts silly usually despite high intelligance"?
>
>once again, from the tome of the original post, i doubt this was an option.
Right, we don't know. So given that we don't know if the GM gave the player
the chance to fully explain his personality, its just as wrong to assume he
wasn't given a chance as it is to assume he was.
>
>>
>>Actually, shouting aside, you're both right and wrong here. A Game Master
>>can allow a player to function with a lower than usual stat other then
>>Strength, but only with permission. The Hero System gives rules for
>>handling pulling a punch, and thereby do less strength related damage.
>>However, no where in the rules does it state that a characters INT roll can
>>be INT/5+9 or (INT-1)/5+9 or (INT-2)/5+9.
>>
>
>
>or the player can just say: "gee, i have good deduction, but since i'm a
bigoted alien,
>i am likely to underestimate these human criminals"??? once again, no
psyc lim
>is required!!!!
Actually, "Psyc: Bigoted Alien" would be an appropriate psyc disads. If a
player suddenly said, "I'm a bigoted alien" but didn't have a psyc disad to
reflect it, I, as a GM, would want to know where this disad came from, and
why.
>
>
>>To say that any stat can be limited up to any amount at a players whim, is
>>only true for your game, and possibly other Game Masters that agree with
you.
>>
>>
>
>not whim- we're talking consistent play here- and hence it's not a whim,
>it's a personality trait, and a darn sight better that nothing!
>
Are you sure it's not a whim? Sure, if a character has a psyc disad, RPing
that disad in all aspects of a character, from the application of his
skills, to whom he will speak to, is a good thing. However, that doesn't
give a player licence to ignore his stats or limitations.
>
>>>look, this has nothing to do with the rules- it has to do with certain
>>people
>>>clearly not having the slightest clue what roleplaying is about. We can
>>keep this
>>>argument up indeffinitely, i am happy to.
>>
>>Not very constructive, but certainly bandwidth producing.
>>
>>-Nic
>
>u-huh? i already tried to stop once. . . .btw..
>fuzion!!! *lol*
>
I think Fuzion gets that reaction from a lot of people. :)
-Nic
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:25:22 -0400
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: nmail.netgate.net ip 204.145.147.77
X-Smtp-Mail-From: nez@thepoint.net
X-Sender: nez@pop3.thepoint.net
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> The solution to the problem central to the issue is pretty simple:
>Keep your own individual religious beliefs separate from gaming. They
>don't mix. Because it is entirely likely that the other members of your
>gaming group won't share them. And offending the religious
the senseabilities of others is no way to keep friends.
>
the other way is to have openminded friends. I have religous freinds. I am
an agnostic/athiest. Many of my freinds are pagan, a few are catholic,
protestant, and generic christian. With a mix of these people in my games, I
have pulled off the following storylines.
A> One of my characters had healing powers, and was raised in a hippy
commune. He spoke of peace and love, and founded a commune of his own, which
developed into a cult. A rather large religious cult. So in essense he was
perceived as Jesus by many. No one in my group was offended by this. I made
it clear that he did not percieve himself as a messiah, the same attitude of
early jesus.
B> An evengalist preaching to masses formed a huge cult. This televanglist
was using mind control over the air waves to create armies of followers. He
eventually planned on causing them to riot and create a holy war. In order
to protect others feelings, I invented a televanglist, rather than naming an
existing one. No one was offended.
c> two of my PLAYERS made religous fanatics who became villians because they
were just too fanatical. It wasn't my fault, and no one was offended. In
fact, everyone agreed.
D> A very powerful mentalist and leader of the kkk used some southern
churches to drum up membership. It worked, though a rather angry minister of
a baptist church started fighting back, and brught the group in. Showing
that some religous people are bad, some are good. No one was offended.
In past games I've included demons, priests, healers, angels, and in my
fantasy games even gods. I've managed to do it without offending people, and
still writing poignant stories with points. I love having moral ambiguity in
my game, it's one of my cheif tools, and religious background stories are an
excellent way for me to bring that about.
>specific religions currently in practice in any of roleplaying games I
>the extent. Doing any more, as I see it, risks drawing offense from one
>or more of my players. And that is definately something I don't see
>healthy for any game group.
I try to challenge peoples thoughts and perceptions. It's one reason I have
people literally standing in line to play my games. (I run 3 seperate games
right now, and have about 21 players in total, and five guys waiting for
open slots.
Those of you who have read my posts may have noticed a tendency for me to
have good guys who cause harm, and bad guys who mean well. Of course theres
also just the downright evil bad guy, but I mix and match. I like to make
people think, and I do try to do it without forcing my opinion, but by
letting them decide what the right decision is.
For instance, a man is develops the power to drain electricity around him.
In fact he needs it to survive. LA ends up in a total blackout, soley
because this character does it unconciously. To deprive him of this mass
amount of power is to kill him. To not do it is to condemn the world to
darkness, and many hundreds to death. What do you do??
A multiple personality character unleashes and incredibly dangerous side
whenever she is threatened with intense physical danger (gunplay etc.). Her
evil side has killed dozens. It's a genetic disorder, not a psychological
one, and it's untreatable (for now). When not in the evil side she's very
nice. Does she go to jail for her crime?
The government has been training small children with superpowers, hoping to
hone them into assasins. The kids rebel, and start an illegal refuge/base of
operations for abused/neglected kids, and save hundreds of kills. But they
kill the abusive fathers when they need to, and they are wanted by the
government. You find out, what do you do?
All of these provide ethical and even spirtual puzzles, and show a side of
myself and opinion, but they are not designed to offend. If I worried about
offending people I'd never do anything.
>
> My reason for not giving the modern faiths equal time in the
>roleplaying games I run is pretty simple. Someone invariably will take
>offense at whatever portrayal of them I make. However, I don't see
>anything wrong with simply stating that a character in a modern setting
>practices a certain religion. But that is the extent of it.
>___
One of my favorite characters in the xmen was Nighcrawler because they did
deal with his faith, and challenged it. And he rose to the challenge.
Nightcrawler kept his faith against the odds, and he did a good job of it. I
admired and liked the character, despite not having such a faith myself.
this kind of depth really adds to characters, and I've had pagan characters
play christian, christians play pagans, and everything else. For me it's a
small part of the role playing experience.
> X SLMR 2.1a X I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?
>
>
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:51:29 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:16 PM 6/25/97 -0500, Bryan Berggren wrote:
>Hasn't someone already pointed out that Transform is generally less
>effective than an RKA? To be more accurate, it's based off the cost of an
>RKA big enough to waste someone in one shot. A 3d6+1 RKA is a scary weapon
>which will leave the average person bleeding in the dirt, dead without
>medical attention in a couple minutes. A 3d6+1 Major Transform is USELESS
>against the average person (maximum roll of 19, not good enough). I chose
>this value because 50 points is described in the Designer's Notes as "pretty
>good". If a "pretty good" Transform is useless ...?
a valid point, has anyone ever seen a Transform attack, meant to be used
against enemies directly (not vs equipment. etc) that wasn't "cumulative"?
IMHO, cumulative should be the DEFAULT for transformation (to bring it more
in line with the RKA it is supposedly based on), and "All or Nothing" would
then be a disad of -1/2 (?).
>
>Also, note that one of their examples for a MINOR transform (dagger into
>sword) implies a point shift of (at least) +5.
Implying very heavily that one CAN add points. UGH! I can just see a
player with
"Transform my ally/self into GODLIKE superbeing". Obviously no sane GM
would allow such a thing, but the concept would be valid if this is
allowable...
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:06:20 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:34 AM 6/26/97 +1000, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
>At 07:24 PM 6/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>> >so? why is that BAD???
>>>>
>>>> Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your character
>>>> the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
>>>> should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human).
>>>> Got it?
>>>
>>>oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of
>>>clhiche perceptions of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you
>>>think all smart people can spell perfectly?
>>
>>Umm, actually, the "cliche perceptions" are the _rules_. The Hero System
>>Rulebook pretty clearly spells out what each stat means, regardless of
>>your interpretations of the names of said stats.
>>
>> Donald
>>
>
>wrong. it does not state that high-pre characters are super-cool as such
and can't be
>scared unless they fail a pre or ego resistance. It doesn't say all combat
trained characters act like green berets. It doesn't say high int
characters are
>super-confident and competent and are always right and ultra-serious
unless they fail
>an int roll or whatever.
>
>or are we talking fuzion again??
It doesn't fewkin matter if we are talking Hero, Fuzion, or fewkin D&D!
The point is (ONE LAST TIME):
If you want to play your character as being an Idiot, don't try to give
him a Super-Genius IQ. If you want to play a super-genius who can't spell
worth a damn, then take an appropiate Disad (possibly for zero points - but
STATE that the character has this disad!)...
If you built a character that has that "Super-cool-under-fire" 20+ PRE,
then BECAUSE OF THE GAME MECHANICS OF HERO SYSTEM'S PRESENCE ATTACK RULES
he should not be freaking out everytime someone goes "boo". If you wanted a
character who is very impressive himself, but also easily impressed, you
should have bought your PRE as "Offensive Only" or the Vulnerability of
"Takes extra effect from PRE attacks"
However, you think I'm a hopeless slave to the rules of the game; and I
think you are arguing for the sake of "hearing" your own voice, so shall we
drop this damn subject once and for all?
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:32:02 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Role Playing(WAS: Related subject:)
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doh- did the private mail thing again. . . take two:
> Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
>said(kinda)
>>>but what if it's spelt out in his concept?
>>>
>>
>>Then I don't see a problem. The original poster seemed to be stressing that
>>the player designed a character one way, and RPed it another. If the
>>character had psyc disads explaining unusual behavior, or he explained to
>>the GM his personality, then you're correct, he shouldn't be limited by the
>>numerical value of his stats. However, if there is nothing more to go on
>>than the INT stat, then the player should be expected to RP it.
>>
>
>like it or not there is no real way to 'play' high int-
>shouldn't the player just have the chance to form their
>'style' of intelligance within the game?
>isn't that the point? To build on the basework????
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, No. It's not okay. First off, your all caps reaction is akin to
>>>>shouting. Secondly, if a Game Master states; "If you have a high Presence,
>>>>I expect you to play a cool, confident character unless you have a psyc
>>>>disad that states otherwise", then, quite simply, that's the way it works
>>>>in that Game Master's game.
>>>>
>>>
>>>u-huh? does he getv to decide what the pc says too? and was this made
>>clear to
>>>begin with ? NO! hence the caps!
>>
>>I still don't see how 'shouting' does anything useful.
>>
>
>i don't see how being stubborn over such a patently incorrect statement
>is useful- but do you see me complaining? no, just
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""shouting"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Insisting that Stats never determine characteristics, is only true in
>>>>_your_ game. You can say its not a good idea to use stats solely for
>>>>determining personality, but to demand that every GM consider cha
>>>>
>>>
>>>no, i'm suggesting it's true for 'good' or 'better' roleplaying. If
>>>we all just keep to the "just my opinion" cliche, what's the point of the
>>>list? to swop character sheets???
>>
>>To exchange ideas, not dictate policy. I give an example of a character, or
>>a RP idea and ask for feedback. Or in this case, comment on someone else's
>>opinions. Its never good to say "This is the best way to do things,
>>everyone else who doesn't do this is a poor RPer". There is nothing
>>constructive in that statement. IF on the other hand, you say, "In my game,
>>I've found that if I let players ignore the stat numbers and emphasize
>>their personalities." That says something, without dictating that some else
>>is wrong.
>>
>
>oh-huh?? but i believe the latter, quite strongly- making
>assumptions about character behaviour based on your interpretations of stats,
>and then acting like they are cheating or something when they don't live
>up to your predictions is bad gm-ing, full stop. Sorry, but that's my opinion.
>This is the same problem which turned some friends of mine off roleplaying,
>when they started their new campaign with the local dm.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>They are also a guideline for what to expect from a character. If someone
>>>>buys a 20 STR, I, as a GM, would expect to see a brawny, muscular person,
>>>>unless some other limitation or explanation was provided.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>u-huh? and what does con and pre have to do with that? what if they're a
>>>slender 'grey' type alien? yes, thse are other explanations: my point is,
>>they
>>>aren't any more or less valid than the gm's preconceptons!
>>>
>>
>>Well, since a GM is the final authority, then his 'preconceptions' are more
>>valid than what the player might assume. And, if they are an alien, then
>>that is the explanation/limitation I would expect, (Distinctive Looks:
>>Slim, Grey Alien) even a limitation (DL: Real strong, but is built like a
>>proverbial 90lb weakling) should be enough.
>>
>
>he is not the final authority, he is the only authority, and as such
>he must be *very* careful to keep such limitations out of the game-
>or he can just play god, at the other extreme. Guess which way is more fun?
>anyway, the player has the right to mold their character-
>especially in a system like this.
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sure they can, but if the character has purchased a high intelligence, then
>>>>made no mention that despite his high intelligence, he's an idiot, or
>>>>socially inept, absent minded, or prone to bouts of delirium, a Game Master
>>>>is perfectly justified in expecting the player to abide by the character's
>>>>stats.
>>>>
>>>
>>>did they make mention? or were they given an oppurtunity to make mention?
>>>The original post did not sound very reasonable in this respect.
>>>
>>
>>No, there wasn't a complete explanation, however, you were arguing that the
>>original poster didn't seem to understand that someone who is highly
>>intelligent can't act foolishly, which I think is an oversimplification of
>>the original poster's point.
>>
>
>he acted like int 20 people couldn't act like ditzes
>smart - stupid
>clear?
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>The same can be expected if a character bought the psyc-disad, afraid of
>>>>water. The Game Master naturally expects the player to RP that fear.
>>>>
>>>
>>>yes- but can't he just have a 0- points psyc lim, like crusader in the BBB?
>>>and if so, can't he have a sort of
>>>"psyc lim- ditz- acts silly usually despite high intelligance"?
>>>
>>>once again, from the tome of the original post, i doubt this was an option.
>>
>>Right, we don't know. So given that we don't know if the GM gave the player
>>the chance to fully explain his personality, its just as wrong to assume he
>>wasn't given a chance as it is to assume he was.
>>
>
>
>once again, the post was heavily hinting at such an option in my opinion-
>is it better not to speak at all? nothing is certain. . . . .
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, shouting aside, you're both right and wrong here. A Game Master
>>>>can allow a player to function with a lower than usual stat other then
>>>>Strength, but only with permission. The Hero System gives rules for
>>>>handling pulling a punch, and thereby do less strength related damage.
>>>>However, no where in the rules does it state that a characters INT roll can
>>>>be INT/5+9 or (INT-1)/5+9 or (INT-2)/5+9.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>or the player can just say: "gee, i have good deduction, but since i'm a
>>bigoted alien,
>>>i am likely to underestimate these human criminals"??? once again, no
>>psyc lim
>>>is required!!!!
>>
>>Actually, "Psyc: Bigoted Alien" would be an appropriate psyc disads. If a
>>player suddenly said, "I'm a bigoted alien" but didn't have a psyc disad to
>>reflect it, I, as a GM, would want to know where this disad came from, and
>>why.
>>
>
>like i said: 0 point limitation! why can't the player add
>extra bits during the game?
>once again, i'm pretty shure that's a lot of the point. . .
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>To say that any stat can be limited up to any amount at a players whim, is
>>>>only true for your game, and possibly other Game Masters that agree with
>>you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>not whim- we're talking consistent play here- and hence it's not a whim,
>>>it's a personality trait, and a darn sight better that nothing!
>>>
>>
>>Are you sure it's not a whim? Sure, if a character has a psyc disad, RPing
>>that disad in all aspects of a character, from the application of his
>>skills, to whom he will speak to, is a good thing. However, that doesn't
>>give a player licence to ignore his stats or limitations.
>>
>
>
>yes it does, that's the point of them! does it matter wether it is a
written down 0 point psyc lim, or something more free and improvised? i
would prefer the latter, and
>put it into points (via limitation replacing) if they are used consistently.
>
>
>>>
>>>>>look, this has nothing to do with the rules- it has to do with certain
>>>>people
>>>>>clearly not having the slightest clue what roleplaying is about. We can
>>>>keep this
>>>>>argument up indeffinitely, i am happy to.
>>>>
>>>>Not very constructive, but certainly bandwidth producing.
>>>>
>>>>-Nic
>>>
>>>u-huh? i already tried to stop once. . . .btw..
>>>fuzion!!! *lol*
>>>
>>
>>I think Fuzion gets that reaction from a lot of people. :)
>>
>>-Nic
>>
>
>hee-hee!!! well, i am glad to report that the feeling
>seems shared by most of the good chams sites i frequent. ..
>
>
>
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:17:25 +1000
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Religion (long)
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okies. . i ahve stuff to add. . no insults intended. . . . .
At 03:25 AM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>
>> The solution to the problem central to the issue is pretty simple:
>>Keep your own individual religious beliefs separate from gaming. They
>>don't mix. Because it is entirely likely that the other members of your
>>gaming group won't share them. And offending the religious
>the senseabilities of others is no way to keep friends.
>>
>the other way is to have openminded friends. I have religous freinds. I am
>an agnostic/athiest. Many of my freinds are pagan, a few are catholic,
>protestant, and generic christian. With a mix of these people in my games, I
>have pulled off the following storylines.
>
beware- it's not nescesarily a matter of "open mind" you have
to stress your own sensitivity, some poeple may have a genuine
objection to your scenario- for instance, it may clash functionally
with the religious beliefs reguarding imagry or representation, or may just
seem/be disrespectful.
>I try to challenge peoples thoughts and perceptions. It's one reason I have
>people literally standing in line to play my games. (I run 3 seperate games
>right now, and have about 21 players in total, and five guys waiting for
>open slots.
>
i woul also steer clear of live religions, supernatural wise.
Having angels and demons is actually more fun if they aren't
""real"" - real angels and demons could not interact with superheros!
it's better to admit these creatures have 'feet of clay' than suggest
a "real" angel would go the sword thing with the teams martial artist,
or whatever. It also gives them more room for personality.
>Those of you who have read my posts may have noticed a tendency for me to
>have good guys who cause harm, and bad guys who mean well. Of course theres
>also just the downright evil bad guy, but I mix and match. I like to make
>people think, and I do try to do it without forcing my opinion, but by
>letting them decide what the right decision is.
>
>
>For instance, a man is develops the power to drain electricity around him.
>In fact he needs it to survive. LA ends up in a total blackout, soley
>because this character does it unconciously. To deprive him of this mass
>amount of power is to kill him. To not do it is to condemn the world to
>darkness, and many hundreds to death. What do you do??
>
plug him into a nuclear reactor? belt the crud out of him? introduce him to
uncontrollable lightning girl?
>A multiple personality character unleashes and incredibly dangerous side
>whenever she is threatened with intense physical danger (gunplay etc.). Her
>evil side has killed dozens. It's a genetic disorder, not a psychological
>one, and it's untreatable (for now). When not in the evil side she's very
>nice. Does she go to jail for her crime?
>
of course she does! btw, this is too much- in my expiriance, players really
hate
the "no, can't do that either" syndrome- what about telepathy?
gene splicing? are you really ready fro them to 'solve' this one???
>The government has been training small children with superpowers, hoping to
>hone them into assasins. The kids rebel, and start an illegal refuge/base of
>operations for abused/neglected kids, and save hundreds of kills. But they
>kill the abusive fathers when they need to, and they are wanted by the
>government. You find out, what do you do?
>
i check for traps!! um, i mean i look to my
code vs killing, and the rest of my stuff- this won't really slow down
all but the most 'middle line' supers- but if there's a team of different folks-
did i mention my love of hero team civil war???
>All of these provide ethical and even spirtual puzzles, and show a side of
>myself and opinion, but they are not designed to offend. If I worried about
>offending people I'd never do anything.
>
yes, but beware- some people just have certain things they are wierd about-
it doesn't mean they are closed-minded, i would really suggest all gm's
thinkn long and hard on this on- you should mold the game to the players and
characters, including their scruples.
>>
>> My reason for not giving the modern faiths equal time in the
>>roleplaying games I run is pretty simple. Someone invariably will take
>>offense at whatever portrayal of them I make. However, I don't see
>>anything wrong with simply stating that a character in a modern setting
>>practices a certain religion. But that is the extent of it.
>>___
>
>
>One of my favorite characters in the xmen was Nighcrawler because they did
>deal with his faith, and challenged it. And he rose to the challenge.
>Nightcrawler kept his faith against the odds, and he did a good job of it. I
>admired and liked the character, despite not having such a faith myself.
>this kind of depth really adds to characters, and I've had pagan characters
>play christian, christians play pagans, and everything else. For me it's a
>small part of the role playing experience.
>
>
yes, plese note the posters (postees?) line of thought everybody-
at no time was nightcrawler attacked by satan or gabriel. I think
"mundane" faith is perfectly aceptable, but i would most humbly
suggest restraint in matters super-natural religious supers-
i would say, if you have them based on living faiths at all,
always expose them as frauds- but, imagine a team devoted
to 'finding god' ina paranormal sence? they would go around,
(missing the point of faith as i see it, i might add)
looking for proof of real angels and demons and such, maybe
even attempting to erm. . . "debunk" folks like
thor- as in "debunk him upsie his head with my plasma cannon". . .
this should never be a successful mission imho, though
there is always the death ad near-death expiriance. . .
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:33:42 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> It doesn't fewkin matter if we are talking Hero, Fuzion, or fewkin D&D!
>The point is (ONE LAST TIME):
>
yes it does, somebody mentioned a "how u act with certain stats" table from
mekton
> If you want to play your character as being an Idiot, don't try to give
>him a Super-Genius IQ. If you want to play a super-genius who can't spell
>worth a damn, then take an appropiate Disad (possibly for zero points - but
>STATE that the character has this disad!)...
> If you built a character that has that "Super-cool-under-fire" 20+ PRE,
>then BECAUSE OF THE GAME MECHANICS OF HERO SYSTEM'S PRESENCE ATTACK RULES
>he should not be freaking out everytime someone goes "boo". If you wanted a
>character who is very impressive himself, but also easily impressed, you
>should have bought your PRE as "Offensive Only" or the Vulnerability of
>"Takes extra effect from PRE attacks"
>
> However, you think I'm a hopeless slave to the rules of the game; and I
>think you are arguing for the sake of "hearing" your own voice, so shall we
>drop this damn subject once and for all?
>
>
uh-huh? do i get the last word??? well, here it is anyway. . . .
This is my logic, like it or leave it.
It is up to the players to explore and add to their characters within the game.
This is ultimately, along with fun (which seems in short supply if you can't
be silly if u want to), the purpose of all roleplaying! does a character
have to write something
down before it is valid? does it then switch from "unnacceptable" to "ok"???
do you have to use it a bunch of times first- or is this what is being
objected to?? your not a slave to the rules. The rules don't say what you
say. Your just stuck with
someplayers who maybe should be playing toon, but who the hell cares? if
they decide
their character "NEVER LEARNT TO REEEED!!! *SOB*" or something, for whatever
reason, then in my opinion they should be encouraged. Character growth is
the most important fact of the game, and improvisation is the most important
skill.
U can even gradually shift limitations to reflect this.
there is nothing wrong with starting a shift away from your psyc lims on day
one-
spidey shure lost his "insufferably arrogant" limitation pretty quick (i
know!!! i know!! it was a catharthic origin, but it's still valid!!!)
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:43:57 (-0600)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:33:42 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: RolePlaying(WAS:
Related subject:):
> > It doesn't fewkin matter if we are talking Hero, Fuzion, or fewkin D&D!
> >The point is (ONE LAST TIME):
> >
>
> yes it does, somebody mentioned a "how u act with certain stats" table from
> mekton
>
Did it ever enter your mind that you use the chart to give a character stats
that match the way he acts rather than have a character act accroding to the
way what you can get out of his stats?
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:51:04 (-0600)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:19:03 -0700,
"happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: RolePlaying(WAS:
Related subject:):
> > >so? why is that BAD???
> >
> > Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your character
> > the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
> > should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human). Got
> > it?
> >
>
>
>
> oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of clhiche
> perceptions
>
> of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you think all smart people can
> spell
>
> perfectly?
>
Stats are defined by the game. If you don't want to use a geme's definition,
I suggest you not play the game.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:02:42 +0000
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
Priority: normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> uh-huh? do i get the last word??? well, here it is anyway. . . .
>
> This is my logic, like it or leave it.
> It is up to the players to explore and add to their characters
> within the game. This is ultimately, along with fun (which seems in
> short supply if you can't be silly if u want to), the purpose of all
> roleplaying!
Absolutely. I agree one hundred percent. However, many people, myself
included, used the word "roleplaying", not to mean "playing a
roleplaying game", but rather "to play a role", that is, to act in
character. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
> does a character have to write something down before it
> is valid?
No. You are quite correct that traits which fit the character do not
necessarily have to be spelled out.
> does it then switch from "unnacceptable" to "ok"???
It would help, especially if the trait doesn't seem to fit the
character, but isn't necessary.
> do you
> have to use it a bunch of times first- or is this what is being
> objected to??
No, though an explaination for truly unusual behavior would be nice.
>your not a slave to the rules. The rules don't say
> what you say. Your just stuck with someplayers who maybe should be
> playing toon, but who the hell cares? if they decide their character
> "NEVER LEARNT TO REEEED!!! *SOB*" or something, for whatever reason,
> then in my opinion they should be encouraged.
Sounds good to me. Always encourage character development.
>Character growth is
> the most important fact of the game, and improvisation is the most
> important skill. U can even gradually shift limitations to reflect
> this.
Of course. Role playing changes in psychological limitations is the
best way to change them, and in a long champaign characters should
change.
> there is nothing wrong with starting a shift away from your
> psyc lims on day one- spidey shure lost his "insufferably arrogant"
> limitation pretty quick (i know!!! i know!! it was a catharthic
> origin, but it's still valid!!!)
Absolutely. I quite agree.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: Role Playing(WAS: Related subject)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:05:04 (-0600)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
You don't GM much do you? I really wish the players in my game would play
their characters with half the brains they give them.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:23:29 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying - LET IT DIE!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
HAPPYELF!!!! wrote:
>
> > It doesn't fewkin matter if we are talking Hero, Fuzion, or fewkin D&D!
> >The point is (ONE LAST TIME):
<< snip >>
>
> uh-huh? do i get the last word??? well, here it is anyway. . . .
>
When a 'discussion' degenerates to the point that you are both just
repeating your arguements (a little bit louder) in the hopes that THIS
time the other guy will understand - its time to let the whole thing
die.
It doesnt do any good to say 'Okay.. for the last time...', because you
KNOW the other guys is going to re-state HIS point 'one last time'..
which requires YOU to state YOUR point 'one last time', which requires
HIM... you get the idea.
Guys, can you drop this, or take it to email? It has NOTHING to do with
Champions (at this point anyway) and is at a hopeless stalemate -
neither side is going to admit they are wrong, or be convinced that the
other side is right.
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: A scenario idea, and
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:12:12 -0400
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Nez said:
>the other way is to have openminded friends. I have religous freinds. I
am
>an agnostic/athiest. Many of my freinds are pagan, a few are catholic,
>protestant, and generic christian. With a mix of these people in my
games, I
>have pulled off the following storylines.
I believe I am the generic Christian that Nez mentioned. I'm an
ex-atheist born-again Christian. I've played in many of Nez's games and
always enjoyed myself. He's played in a few of mine, and I hope enjoyed
himself, as well.
On plot that Nez didn't mention was when I was playing a scientist who
had an accident with a sensory deprivation tank, and could multiform
into either a neanderthal or a large-brained weak-bodied mentalist.
There was a preacher who had the ability to detect paranormals, and
thought that they were a tool of the devil. When he cast his detect on
us, his special effect caused our faces to turn red and horns to grow on
our heads. When my character, Evolvo, suggested he try using his detect
power on himself, a halo appeared over him.
Evolvo, who was also a Christian, offered to try to prove himself
worthy. He explained that he himself was a Christian, and certainly
didn't want to do anything that would be against God's will. The two
debated for quite a while about the nature of powers, of God, and of
various situations that were going on. Eventually, the preacher's
my-mind-is-made-up-and-I'm-right attitude closed the discussion.
All of Nez's gamers are mature adults who are not afraid to take on the
role of someone who is quite different from themselves. We are not
afraid to reevaluate our own convictions or traditions. I've never been
offended by his games. In the times when my own religion has been
presented in a bad light in one of his games, I know that 1. it's just a
game and 2. there are unfortunately Christians in the real world who are
just as bad or worse as those in his games.
Dave Mattingly
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:06:36 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and
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Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> Nez said:
> >the other way is to have openminded friends. I have religous freinds. I
> am
> >an agnostic/athiest. Many of my freinds are pagan, a few are catholic,
> >protestant, and generic christian. With a mix of these people in my
> games, I
> >have pulled off the following storylines.
>
> I believe I am the generic Christian that Nez mentioned. I'm an
> ex-atheist born-again Christian. I've played in many of Nez's games and
> always enjoyed myself. He's played in a few of mine, and I hope enjoyed
> himself, as well.
>
> On plot that Nez didn't mention was when I was playing a scientist who
> had an accident with a sensory deprivation tank, and could multiform
> into either a neanderthal or a large-brained weak-bodied mentalist.
>
> There was a preacher who had the ability to detect paranormals, and
> thought that they were a tool of the devil. When he cast his detect on
> us, his special effect caused our faces to turn red and horns to grow on
> our heads. When my character, Evolvo, suggested he try using his detect
> power on himself, a halo appeared over him.
>
> Evolvo, who was also a Christian, offered to try to prove himself
> worthy. He explained that he himself was a Christian, and certainly
> didn't want to do anything that would be against God's will. The two
> debated for quite a while about the nature of powers, of God, and of
> various situations that were going on. Eventually, the preacher's
> my-mind-is-made-up-and-I'm-right attitude closed the discussion.
>
> All of Nez's gamers are mature adults who are not afraid to take on the
> role of someone who is quite different from themselves. We are not
> afraid to reevaluate our own convictions or traditions. I've never been
> offended by his games. In the times when my own religion has been
> presented in a bad light in one of his games, I know that 1. it's just a
> game and 2. there are unfortunately Christians in the real world who are
> just as bad or worse as those in his games.
>
> Dave Mattingly
BRAVO!!!!!!
I was about to post the same thing myself..........
Well not exactly..... but you get my meaning.
All that is required for a well played game is Maturity and a
willingness to suspend disbelief....... I think this post may also apply
to the "RolePlaying Tirade"........ as far as that goes... if it
advances the game who cares if it meets up with a stat?
And on that note o/` ...... Even the Fonz freaked out once in awhile ;)
Puzzleboy
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:27:40 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying
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Len Undy wrote:
>
> At 03:35 PM 25/06/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Lots Cut....
>
> >oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is) you're
> >just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
> frankly, you've
> >missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
> personality!!!
> >the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a coward
> >anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand and
> fight
> >if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not
> MINIMUMS!!!
>
> I just want to point something out here. IMHO Stats are not Minimums, but
> there also not Maxiums as such. There more like the average level of the
> character. That's why you can push your strengh, and also IMHO you can by
> skills which allow to go past your Stat level as such eg.
>
> Spider can lift 10 tons, but only when Pushing, sometimes in an extended
> action. Most the time he can't even really lift and throw a car. That's
> not because his "playing below his Stats" but because he needs to push to do
> so.
>
u-huh? i doubt that. i'd go the other way- stat wise, spidey can lift more that 10 tons
at a time, but he role plays it, and acts like heavy lifting is hard.
> Example 2: A fairly good student with INT 15 has a skill level
> Science:Robotics of 12-. He teacher has a level of 15-, yet a lower INT.
> Thus one can not be to Intellegent, yet exceed everyone in certain fields.
> Chances are Eistien(sp?) was not as bright as people think, outside his own
> fields. So a character could be roleplayed as pretty average Int and then
> appear to be genuis when someone ask him to disarm that thermal neuclear
> divice they're sitting on.
>
yeha, but is that the only way to do it? do you really want a bunch of characters with 5
types of prescence? or can we just be mature about it???
> IMHO no one should play below their INT either, unless for a good reason.
>
"below"??? yuo just said they weren't minimums!!! even the smartest guy can act or be
dumb, in the right circumstances. . .
> Okay that PRE case. A high PRE character may decide to escape a battle, but
> not because his scared. High PRE character will calmly decide that his
> outnumber, and likely to be gunned down within moments, or this battle isn't
> worth fighting or whatever. He'll then leave the battle, without peeing his
> pants. His not scared, he just knows he can't win. High PRE doesn't mean
> his an idiot(low INT might). High PRE character cannot be cowards...
>
huh? but actors have high pre. .. . hell, the cowardly lion has a high prescence!!!
and why not be scared? aren't players allowed to decide whether their character is
scared from situation to situation?? sounds an aweful lot like gm's wanting to
control/predict player behaviour again. . .
> DON'T TRY AND MAKE YOUR PERSONALITY FIT YOUR STATS, MAKE YOUR STATS FIT YOUR
> PERSONALITY!!
yeah, but you mean by limiting your stats: i mean by getting a gm who hasn't got this
wierd ass idea about stats. . . .
>
> BRYCE
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:18:08 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: RE: More Than Meets The Eye
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At 05:51 AM 6/26/97 -0500, Earl Kwallek wrote:
> Implying very heavily that one CAN add points. UGH! I can just see a
> player with "Transform my ally/self into GODLIKE superbeing". Obviously
> no sane GM would allow such a thing, but the concept would be valid if
> this is allowable...
Which is why Transform explicitly requires GM's permission just to exist:
because no sane GM would allow such a thing.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:19:03 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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> >so? why is that BAD???
>
> Because HERO is a point based system, in which you define your character
> the way you want to... if you want the character to be a ditz/idiot you
> should NOT be buying a 20 INT (ie: 4 times as smart as a normal human). Got
> it?
>
oh, rubbish!! look, this is pointless. Your hidebound into a set of clhiche perceptions
of what intelligence , ect means. I suppose you think all smart people can spell
perfectly?
> >oh, please!!! IS he a green beret? IS he a lensman(whatever that is) you're
> >just acting like he has to be 'super cool' because you want him too!!
> frankly, you've
> >missed the point of roleplaying, skills do not cause an archetype of
> personality!!!
>
> No you've missed the point! The point is that if you defined the
> character as "Super Cool" (ie 20+ PRE), he SHOULD NOT freak, he should not
> act like a dweeb, and in general he should not be easily impressed, UNLESS
> you have specifically defined a set of cicumstances under which his "Super
> Coolness" does not help him. Which is to say, unless he has a
> disad/limitation stating this....
>
HE WASN'T DEFINED AS THAT!!!!! unless he writes 'super cool' in his character
description, he isn't super cool!!! once again, you have this idea that your stats
determine your personality
THEY DON'T AT ALL!!
EVER!
OK?
they are abstract limits to game mechanics- nothing more.
> >the guy could be a savant- or have a split personality- or just be a coward
> >anyway!!! btw,, just because he has 20pre doesn't mean he has to stand
> and fight
> >if he don't want too. . .and he can freak out- the stats are MAXIMUMS, not
> MINIMUMS!!!
>
> Wrong again! The stats are VALUES, they cannot be pushed beyond the set
> amount or lowered below it. As an example I have seen many Intellegent
> people try to act stupid, none were convincing. I have seen stupid people
> TRY to act intellegent, again it fails miserably.
nonsence!! intelligant people can act stupid, and be stupid!!! you just can't seem to
comprehend that!
> The sole exception to this is STR, damage can be pulled, or (in extremis)
> a person can exceed his normal maxima. This is solely to enable a character
> to perform in a HEROIC manner... ie: it is a genre thing.
>
the sole exception? ALL STATS CAN BE LIMITED!!!
str can be limited in all games- as can ANY OTHER STAT!!!
I repeat:
ANY OTHER STAT!
there is no rule saying you have to do maximum damage, or move maximum move or whatever
the same applies to 'non-physical' stats.
look, this has nothing to do with the rules- it has to do with certain people
clearly not having the slightest clue what roleplaying is about. We can keep this
argument up indeffinitely, i am happy to.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 20:21:58
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Subject: Re: Looking for character id
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On 24 Jun 97 17:16:00 GMT, Opal wrote:
>- A victim. Really, sometimes it can be fun to play the character who's
> best combat power is screaming for help. Should have useful noncombat
> abilities, and a reason for being involved - a special sense, a
> desperate need to find out something about the enemy/find a lost loved
And bucket-loads of LUCK
qts
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Cc: "hero-l@omg.org" <hero-l@omg.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 20:34:07
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:35:40 -0400 (EDT), John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>I've been trying to get a good grip on the transform power.
>>The book didn't seem to have very many good examples, and I'm not
>>completely clear about what you can and cannot do. I have some
>>specific examples...
>
><snip examples>
>
>Remember that Transform operates on the following principle: If you can do
>2xBODY on the dice, that's sufficient to INSTANTLY KILL a 'normal' (no
>resistant defense) person if you used an RKA (as opposed to the 'major
>transform', where all the really useful transform effects fall anyways).
>
>So, if I roll my 6D6 Major Transform (matter to solid gold) and roll a 20
>vs. someone with 10 BODY, bam, they're a solid gold statue. No need to apply
>SPD Drain, or any other funkiness. They've gone from a 'living breathing'
>person to a 'golden paperweight' statue. This is the reason that Transform
>is expensive - it's powerful.
>
>Anyway, if you want to turn that Brick into a cheerleader - transform can do
>it all by itself, and change the foci along with the bargain (assuming that
>the foci are 'paid for' stuff, and that changing foci along with the target
>is part of the transform's SFX).
Yep.
>But, despite the power, transform is rather easily defeated. Even 10 pips of
>Power Defense can ruin most Transforms, even the Cumulative ones (which will
>now take far too many hits to work to be practical). A high BODY count can
>also make it difficult to use Transforms effectively. The aforementioned 6D6
>Transform is helpless in the face of 19 BODY (19x2=38, which is more than
>you can roll on 6D6).
But then you can tack on things like Penetrating and Armour Piercing.
Also, how about Find Weakness vs Power Defence?
>And in practical terms, 15 BODY almost guarantees
>safety from this 90 Active Point power
On it's own, yes, but you get your friendly fighter/brick to hammer
them first!
>Simply put, Transforms are very powerful, very expensive, but not terribly
>reliable.
>A 6D6 RKA is generally scarier than a 6D6 Major Transform.
Agreed, but if I had a 90 pt VPP, I'd hit you with each in turn - I
need some ornaments for the garden, you see :}
qts
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Duplication
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:17:00 -0400
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I've moved my Power Point article on duplication on-line at
http://www.geocities.com/area51/5550/haym11.html
It's about 10 pages long and covers nearly every imaginable aspect of
the power.
Dave Mattingly
From: flacksd@evron.com
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:27:35 -0500
Subject: Transform / Religion LONG
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This e-mail has to do with both the Transform and Religion topics under
discussion, hence the subject line.
I ran a campaign a few years back with a cult style religious organization
which had the ability to transform normal people into fanatical followers,
and transform people into temporary, low-powered supers. This actually
turned out to be a lot of fun. The campaign ended in mid-stream do to the
dissolving of the players, but this had nothing to do with their religions.
The campaign included Christen, Jewish, Pagan, and atheist players. It
also had various NPCs with religious bents, and the only complaint I got
was from one of the wiccan women. As a self proclaimed pagan and
witch, she objected to a evil witch NPC. I believe she said that the evil
witch was obviously not a true wiccan, just an occult mystic who called
herself a witch. Once I reminded her of the difference between reality
and a game universe, she stopped complaining.
The cult-like organization, Millennium, became one of the major *evil*
organizations in my campaign. As well as a great source of moral
quandaries for the players.
Millennium used Transformations to brainwash followers (giving them
Phys disadvantages such as fanatically loyal to Millennium). This
process took a long time, so that the players had a chance to save their
DNPCs. To reverse the transform required an equally long
deprogramming. Millennium also uses transformation to change normals
into short term psychotic bricks. One of the PCS and three of the NPCs
(one a hero and two villains) got their permanent powers from exposure
to the Millennium transformation serum. These transforms obviously
added or removed points from the subjects totals, but they were a lot of
fun. The key to transforms, at least in my campaign, was that the
transform results had to be exactly defined before it was submitted for
GM approval. No transforming into anything. I would then examine the
transform and determine if it might unbalance the game. Any transform
that unbalances the game, like transform a tin can into an omnipotent ally,
was NOT allowed.
For those of you who are curious here is a brief synopsis of the
Millennium organization and history.
Millennium is a semi-secret organization. (People know it exists, but have
no idea of its true extent) It membership include a small strike force of
super villains, a slowly growing group of semi-powered individuals
(more powerful that normals, but not as powerful as the PCS), and a
constantly growing large group of normal followers. These normals
range from competent professionals to helpless children. Members were
called the Chosen, while those members with super powers were know
as Adepts. Some of the fully superpowered Adepts, and almost all of
the semi-powered Adepts do not belong to the strike force. This means
that an attacked Millennium refuge usually had fully powered and partially
powered Adepts on hand. Millennium also had limited access to
high-technology. Millennium tech is at a higher level that normal tech, but
not quite on a par with such organizations as Primus and Until.
Millennium began with a scientist who invented a device he called the
temporal experiencer. The TE allowed one to experience the future
without physically effecting or being effected by it. (This could be
explained and a combination of Extra-Dimensional Move and Desolid, but
it was simply a GM Plot Device.)
What the scientist experienced was a world destroyed by war. He
found plenty of wreckage, and some mutated animals and insects. What
he did not find was any people, mutated or otherwise. The scientist
concluded that a war was coming that would destroy the human race.
Worse still, the wreckage was high tech, but not so high tech that he
couldn*t recognize some of it. That meant the war would be in the future,
but not to far into the future. This scientist decided that he had to do
something to same humanity. Using his time technology, and what future
high-tech he could decipher, he became the Time Master, and started a
survivalist movement. This movement would become Millennium.
Time Master began recruiting people. One of his recruits was the DNPC
of one of the hero*s. The heros came looking for him, and in the process
trashed the Time Master*s refuge. The Time Master escaped. This was
a minor incident for the heros but it had a major effect on Millennium. The
Time Master made the following discoveries. 1) Supers tend to be
hardier that normals, so if he wants to be sure humanity survives he
better recruit some Supers. 2) His refuge was to easily discovered and
destroyed. Future refuges would be concealed, armoured, and
defended. 3) Secrecy must be maintained. No-one should be allowed
into a refuge unless their loyalty is assured. 4) Most people, when
exposed to the TE were left in a profoundly shocked and suggestive
state. This state, combined with certain well established cult
indoctrination techniques transforms normal people into fanatical
believers.
Millennium took it*s first steps into the world of fanaticism. Time Master
had always realized that there were too many people to try and save
everyone, but now he began to qualify who was worthy of being saved.
People who join Millennium really believe they are working towards the
survival of their children, descendants, and all of humanity. A normal
might hesitate to confront a super, but if (s)he feels that the welfare of
their children is at stake then even suicidal attacks are possible. Once
the heroes realized the situation they had to deal with attacks from
followers who were only trying to protect their families. Families
members tended to join in groups rather that individually. Members were
encouraged to have lots of children, resulting in the beginnings of a new
generation of followers trained from birth. This also means that gung-ho
heroes crashing into a refuge will have to deal with helpless children on
site.
As Millennium grew, the situations worsened. Some supers joined the
organization, as well as some scientists. These scientists managed to
develop the smasher serum. This was an injected serum that transforms
normals into brick supers. These supers, called smashers, are built on a
lesser point total that PCS. They were called smashers because the
transformation left them mentally deranged, with a tendency to go
berserk. The heroes had to try and stop these bricks without severely
injuring them. A small number of people underwent different and / or
permanent changes. The smasher serum was the origin for one PC and
three NPCs. Millennium came to the attention of the public. The public
believed Millennium to be a small group of supers and agents with
mysterious goals.
When the campaign ended Millennium had just entered a new phase.
Using a derivative of the smasher serum, Millennium developed a method
of sometimes detecting people with potential super powers before their
powers manifested themselves. These tests could be run without
alerting the subject in most cases. Millennium agents began infiltrating
schools and nurseries. Millennium also set up there own special
schools. Parents were approached about transferring their kids to the
schools. A number of these families joined Millennium. Some children
were kidnaped. The campaign ended just after the heroes had sneaked
into one of these schools looking for a kidnaped child, and discovered a
class of 10 year-olds gleefully reciting loyalty pledges to Millennium.
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:38:11 -0400 (EDT)
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> >Remember one important point: while Transformation will not add points to
> >the "victim" (use UBO or UAO powers for this) it may be used to either
> >change the victim's point allocations as well as give them Disadvantages.
>
> This should be rephrased "while your GM may not allow Transforms to add
> points to the 'victim' in his campaign, it might still be used to ..."
>
> By the book, Transformation most certainly can "add" points to the 'victim'.
> For example, changing a dagger into a short sword (used as an example of a
> Minor Transform) increases the dagger's RKA by 5 active points (which
> probably works out to 1 points after limitations like Focus, STR Min, etc.).
>
Yes, you're right, it does. I don't really like the idea of a wildcard
power, though, usable to simulate any effect without much further
definition. Admittedly, any transform requires GM approval, but I still
don't like the idea of something defined so vaguely as to be limited only
by a GM caveat. I mean, you may as well define the power "Do Anything",
15pts per 1d6 or +1 or +1", requires GM approval.
I'm inclined to agree with Dave that, at least in general, a Transform
should not add CP's, only transfer and decrease them. Maybe there
could be exceptions in special cases. For instance, how about
a transform that cures blindness? Or a transform that reverses a
transform? Or a transform that reverses the aging process?
I gather there is no dispute that shuffling or decreasing CP's is fair
game, it's just these special cases that are controversial. So the
only question that remains is under what circumstances can you add
CP's to an object, creature, or person?
For instance, I'd bet dollars to donuts that almost everyone here would
agree that if Animation Lad had the transformation ability of "transforms
stone statue of a person into a person" he could reverse a transform
done by Medusa Maid, after she turns Lightning Lass into stone, and
Lightning Lass would regain all of her powers, talents, etc. But
what happens if AL tries his power on a statue that was never a person?
What if he sculpts a statue of Lightning Lass and uses his transform
on it? Does the statue become a mental and physical duplicate of
Lightning Lass, or does the statue become a lifeless and mindless
corpse with a 12 BODY, a 4 for PD and ED, and 0 everything else (the
same as the stone statue)? Or does the statue become a 0 CP
character with a fraction of LL's abilities? Does anyone here believe
the statue should gain LL's full abilities at no additional cost?
Of course, AL could use a linked Aid (+2 affects all) (+<big number>
wears off very slow), but where should the baseline be? What do you get
by default in a transform?
Sorry to be such a pest... ;-)
-Eric
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:01:47 +0000
Subject: Re: Can't find limitation
Priority: normal
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X-Status:
X-UID: 3
> Well this seems a fairly minor bit for this list but I cannot find a
> particular limitation in the BB which I thought was there. Can
> anyone help me to find where the limitation Costs End (for power's
> that usually don't, of course) and what its value should be?
>
>
>
> Carter Humphrey
> BeerCarboy@AOL.com
Pg 109, in the Limited Power Example, second example from the top.
-1/2.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:17:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Reply-To: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Religious Team from Elementals
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The team from the Elementals was called 'The Rapture'. It had six
members.
***
Genesis 6:4
" There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when
the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children
to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
Genesis was the leader of the team and the most ruthless. He had short
hair and a beard, dark brown. He worn a green costume and a Green Arrow
style mask that did nothing to hide his face. He did not seem
to have any powers (from the bible quotation I expected growth powers), so
I assume he was simply a 'mighty man, a man of renown.' He did seem to be
a trained fighter, using a pistol and a sling shot with some trick shots.
***
Exodus 10:21
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that
there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be
felt."
Exodus had looked like she was conposed totally of darkness and had the
ability to use her darkness to entangle people, create force walls, ect.
She was vulnerable to light.
***
Leviticus 26:22
" I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your
children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your
highways shall be desolate."
Leviticus was covered in light brown fur, had four arms, claws, sharp
teeth. He was by far the most philosophical, speaking more often of
christian compassion than vengence. He was also an ex-cop and more
practical, less fanatical then many of his teammates.
***
Judges 15:14
" And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the
Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon
his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed
from off his hands."
Judges was a muscular, tall man, his black hair was tied back in a pont
tail. Through less of a killer then Genesis, he was fanatical about
smiting the enemies of the Lord and vocal about it. His powers were super
strength and resistence to harm.
***
Matthew 27:51
"And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the
bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent"
Matthew's power was causing vibrations. He used it to
blast apart Monolith in his rock form, as well as doing the same for
Fathon, who was composed of water. Later he caused a chasm to open up
under Ratman and buried him under rocks. He was more of a joker then the
rest of the group, refering to Monolith as 'Rubble without a cause' after
blasting him apart.
***
Isaiah 6:2
" Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he
covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he
did fly."
Isaiah had wings that allowed her to fly, that seemed to be her only
power. She had fair skin and short blond hair, her wings were white. She
seemed to prefer to fly above the battle and swoop down for an ambush.
***
Hope this helps.
TokyoMark
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:28:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Can't find limitation
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Well this seems a fairly minor bit for this list but I cannot find a
particular limitation in the BB which I thought was there. Can anyone help
me to find where the limitation Costs End (for power's that usually don't, of
course) and what its value should be?
Carter Humphrey BeerCarboy@AOL.com
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:17:19 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
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At 08:38 PM 6/26/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Yes, you're right, it does. I don't really like the idea of a wildcard
>power, though, usable to simulate any effect without much further
>definition. Admittedly, any transform requires GM approval, but I still
>don't like the idea of something defined so vaguely as to be limited only
>by a GM caveat. I mean, you may as well define the power "Do Anything",
>15pts per 1d6 or +1 or +1", requires GM approval.
Well, Transform would be "do anything" as long as "anything" fits the
Transform paradigm (of a semi-permanent condition or form inflicted on a
target).
>I'm inclined to agree with Dave that, at least in general, a Transform
>should not add CP's, only transfer and decrease them. Maybe there
>could be exceptions in special cases. For instance, how about
>a transform that cures blindness? Or a transform that reverses a
>transform? Or a transform that reverses the aging process?
For my own part, actually, I'm inclined to agree, too: as a guideline, a
typical Transform effect shouldn't cause major increases in point totals.
But I feel it's important to underline that this is a guideline, and not a
hard-and-fast rule (and certainly not the "official" rule), because
sometimes you WILL want to be able to use a Transform that way. All of the
examples you listed are valid ones, as would be vampiric "infection" (my
"strict Stokerian" vampire package as of the moment is still a positive
cost), Power Broker style superhuman creation, or that handy dagger-to-sword
spell.
>For instance, I'd bet dollars to donuts that almost everyone here would
>agree that if Animation Lad had the transformation ability of "transforms
>stone statue of a person into a person" he could reverse a transform
>done by Medusa Maid, after she turns Lightning Lass into stone, and
>Lightning Lass would regain all of her powers, talents, etc. But
>what happens if AL tries his power on a statue that was never a person?
>What if he sculpts a statue of Lightning Lass and uses his transform
>on it? Does the statue become a mental and physical duplicate of
>Lightning Lass, or does the statue become a lifeless and mindless
>corpse with a 12 BODY, a 4 for PD and ED, and 0 everything else (the
>same as the stone statue)? Or does the statue become a 0 CP
>character with a fraction of LL's abilities? Does anyone here believe
>the statue should gain LL's full abilities at no additional cost?
This really depends on the style of campaign you're running. The standard
four-color comicbook answer would probably be "the statue has LL's abilities".
Now, at first glance this seems like it's a really gonzo ability, and maybe
it is. But to pull it off reliably, you need around a 7d6 Major Transform.
That's 105 Active Points -- probably enough to build a VPP capable of
turning YOURSELF into Lightning Lass temporarily, or a reasonable facsimile.
The "all or nothing" factor of a Transform is probably its biggest balancing
factor -- really abusive Transforms tend to also be really expensive Transforms.
A 2d6 Cumulative Transform will pull off the same effect for less than half
the cost. But it also takes 3-4 Phases and for about half again as much
END. If I were to kludge this from a non-Cumulative transform, using Extra
Time and Increased END, I'd end up with about a 60 pt. power ... so maybe
Cumulative should be +1? (*shrug*)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:30:18 -0400
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From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com>
Subject: Re: Frictionless
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At 10:50 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
>runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
>have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
>the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
>
>I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
>character.
>
>I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
>deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
>appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
>
>Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
>
>Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
>arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
>the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
>reduced by range EB.
>
>Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
>
>
>Dave Mattingly
>
Hwad a character some time back that could not only make herself
frictionless but anyone she touched as well. She would bump into a target
sending the flying into any barrier around. We duplicated this by using a
large energy blast, no range, does Knock back only double knockback.
Another trick she used was to remove friction from a character causing them
to lose control of their movement and balance.(TK only for raising the
oppenent a half inch above ground)
Patrick B.
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 27 Jun 97 16:51:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Looking for characte
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h > > - A Christian mystic (a Gnostic, Enochian, Templar, or Mason,
h > perhaps)
h > > again, similiar to the other magick-wielders, but with a
h > different
h > > special effect.
h >
h > Any suggestions as to what would be appropriate powers wise for such a
h > character? Any required disads?
Keeping it fairly tame, Dispel to send demons back to thier home plane,
Supress against evil magickal powers, Detect to identify shapechanged
or hidden demons, a small Aid or Healing power, and some sort of
Exorcism (Transform or Dispel depending on how possessions work).
For an over-the-top character (this is an anime-inspired game),
a flaming sword or lance effect, blazing light that kills vampires
or dispels illusions, Transforms (water into wine, people into pillars
of salt, whatever), Resurection, totally uncontrolled but very
powerful effects (earthquakes, bizare stuff like the 10 plagues).
Enochian mystics summoned demons and angels. They had a large
list to choose from with a demon or angel that was a specialist
in just about any task you could think of... they just had to
have the right name, and the right ritual to summon and command
it. Demons demand a price, and angels only act if the cause
is rightous and the summoner devout and sincere.
For a more combat oriented character, have a modernized Templar
(for thier day they were impressive fighters with the best
weapons and armor, why shouldn't a 'modern' Templar have the
best weapons and armor he can get? - preferably blessed of
course). Add the detect and Aid above. Or, worse yet:
CyberPaladin!
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 27 Jun 97 17:15:02 GMT
Subject: Level playing field for
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h > I was working on a mentalist character the other day, trying to
h > achieve effects within a reasonable point cost. It struck me how uneve
h > power balance is for mental powers vs. regular attack powers. For inst
h > an energy blast can take a target out of the fight by reducing stun MUC
h > longer han a mentalist can with mind control.
The defenses against mental powers are not as common, fewer characters
buy up thier EGO as get high Stun and CON, the effects of mental powers
can be very dramatic: Doing 20 Stun to someone is pretty good, getting
him to stop interacting with reality, turn on his friends, or reveal
the solution to a mystery is much more significant.
h > Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it. What
h > mentalists were given a bonus to their powers based on their ego in
h > the way> that fighters get a bonus based on strength. For instance, if
h > 20 ego and a 4d6 ego attack, I'd actually get a 6d6 ego attack.
Definitely not nescisary.
h > If ego is, as it says in the rulesbook "strength of will", then it
h > seems reasonable to me that an egoist with a higher strength of will wo
h > have a greater effect. I don't see the correlation between a high "str
h > of will" and a better ability to hit another person mentally (ECV). An
'hitting' someone with a mental power is very different than hitting them
with an attack. No one 'dodges' Ego Attacks - the OECV roll represents a
contest of wills, if the attacker is stronger willed, he forces the effect
on the victim.
h > since bricks can buy +1d6 h-t-h at three points per die PLUS their stre
h > and then get extra damage based on offensive maneuvers (move by, move
h > through, etc.), it seems mentalists are crippled offensively.
Don't even talk about Hand attacks... just don't. Mentalists are far
from crippled offensively, after all most victims have no defense against
thier attacks. Is it really that much better to do 42 stun to someone
with a defense of 24 than to just hit him for 18 stun (Ego Attack) vs
no defense?
h > Not that they don't have their advantages. No range modifiers, for
h > example. But thats just another example of how mentalists have an eas
h > hitting, but a hard time affecting their target.
h > What do you think?
h >
h > -fugazi
The affect a mentalist has is usually quite extreme. Aside from
Ego attacks (which do plenty of damage for what is essentialy a
No Range Mod, Invisible, AVLD, BTW), the typical mental power will
either a)do nothing or b) instantly defeat the opponent. There's
very little middle ground - either the illusion works and Grond
thinks Black Paladin is Defender or it doesn't, if it does *major*
effect - far more than tagging old Grond for 42 stun.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 27 Jun 97 17:31:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Level playing field
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h >
h > I too have noticed the seemingly uneven playing field between
h > mentalists and other characters and their powers. My thoughts and
h > conclusions included:
mostly OK, but a few objections
h >
h > * Mentallists are paying about equal points for their other mental
h > in comparison to the beamer or others. However, for those 50-60 pts,
h > mentalist is getting far less bang for his buck.
h > their
h > effectiveness. A 15 Ego, and 13 pts of mental defense (3 base, and 10
h > for that 'medium grade armor'), and the leftover 7 pts can't even
h > convince the target to do something he didn't already feel like doing.
Might be a valid point, except for all those 10 EGO 0 EGO DEF charaters
out there. In the typical supervillain group, everyones going to
have good defenses against normal attacks or a really high DCV. A
few might have high egos or some EGO DEF. But you can bet there'll
be at least one with a really sad ego 8 or 10 and no EGO DEF - and
he's usually the brick you can Mind Control into beating up his
friends.
It can be very hard to get mental powers to work, but when they
work, they pay big dividends.
h > * For non-standard mental powers, Based On ECV is the standard
h > Yet based on ECV must be used in conjunction with invisible power
h > +1.75 advantage? The invisibility still seems right. But attacking
h > ECV just seems too expensive to me; you still have to roll, and you
h > have to face a defense. Yet we are making this advantage worth the
h > same as there being only one or two defenses around that can stop this
h > from getting you at full blast? For the most part, this just seems lik
h > +1/2> to me. Of course, I always wondered why invisible power effects w
h > so expensive, but its really not the point of this particular posting.
I think you're overestimating the amount of EGO DEF out there. Having
EGO DEF is suposed to be fairly rare, as are mental powers. In a game
were EGO DEF is common (virtually all super have it) and EGO's are
frequetly bought up, the cost of BOECV could be adjusted down, but that
would be an odd exception.
h > * Mental powers are pretty well exclusively mental, ie, mind.
h > they go off at the rate of normal speed, and dexterity, which are both
h > physical stats. Intelligence is described as quick thinking, the
h > thought, etc., so why not base mental powers on Intelligence rather
h > dexterity? I can't see giving a mentallist a 5 or 6 normal speed just
Because INT is just too cheap to base SPD off of, even for mental
powers only. In a game that revolves around Psionics, you might
want to base SPD off INT or EGO, but you'd also want to bump the
cost accordingly (2pt INT or 3 pt EGO), and possibly lower the cost
of DEX to 2.
h > Mind Control and such. But characters with strong minds _should_ be
h > to affect than those with average or lesser minds. So I eventually
h > on an automatic character disadvantage for all characters:
h > Vulnerability, 2x effect from mental powers. I have also allowed that
h > within concept, buy off that disadvantage, or lessen it, via a Talent:
h > Resistant to Mental Powers, for 15 or 30 points (15 reduces the disad
Mystic Masters suggested this. Fine for games where you want Mental
powers to be dominant.
h > 1.5x effect; 30 reduces to 1x effect). All characters now have mental
h > defense as a figured characteristic, since those who purchase points
h > in MD were getting EGO/5 free anyway. Why not give those points to eve
h > for free, as it is only a few points.
h >
Well that explains part of your problem right there. Mental DEF is
supposed to be unusual; possesed by mentally aware characters or
those with extensive training or resistance. If everyone has it,
you throw off the cost structure of EGO Attack completely.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: An Odd one
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At 07:57 PM 6/25/97 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>At 01:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>>Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>>The greater the disad, the worse the reaction. A 5 point limitation
>>would probably just land him on the worst dressed list, comments being
>>made every so often. Pretty much a role-playing only disad.
>>If he takes a 20 pointer, then he'll probably get picked on by people
>>with obscuring attacks, get the fashion police as a hunted etc...
>
>A 20 point disad for bad clothing would have to cause some kind of nausea
>in an observer. I don't think poor fashion sense could ever be a
>Distinctive Feature with an Extreme Reaction.
Not even if the character's clothing causes most normal people to double
over laughing uncontrollably?
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Subject: Level playing field for mentalists
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 13:11:32 -0500
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net>
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-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
I was working on a mentalist character the other day, trying to achieve
effects within a reasonable point cost. It struck me how uneven the power
balance is for mental powers vs. regular attack powers. For instance, an
energy blast can take a target out of the fight by reducing stun MUCH longer
than a mentalist can with mind control.
Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it. What if
mentalists were given a bonus to their powers based on their ego in the way
that fighters get a bonus based on strength. For instance, if I had a 20
ego and a 4d6 ego attack, I'd actually get a 6d6 ego attack.
If ego is, as it says in the rulesbook "strength of will", then it seems
reasonable to me that an egoist with a higher strength of will would have a
greater effect. I don't see the correlation between a high "strength of
will" and a better ability to hit another person mentally (ECV). And since
bricks can buy +1d6 h-t-h at three points per die PLUS their strength, and
then get extra damage based on offensive maneuvers (move by, move through,
etc.), it seems mentalists are crippled offensively.
Not that they don't have their advantages. No range modifiers, for example
. But thats just another example of how mentalists have an easy time
hitting, but a hard time affecting their target.
What do you think?
-fugazi
Subject: Re: Frictionless attack powers
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 13:26:04 -0500
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net>
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-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Good timing!
In the campaign I'm playing, we just met a frictionless speedster villain.
His most effective attack was to hit us and make us frictionless, to the
point where we couldn't stand. This was an actual entangle (i.e. instead of
being told we couldn't move because we were bound, we couldn't move because
we couldn't stand). The character who was hit by it (a wolverine-like
character) ended up jabbing his claws into the ground and pulling himself
off of the frictionless spot (thus attacking the entangle). I thought it
was clever use of a special effect.
-Fugazi
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:30:25 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Level playing field for mentalists
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At 01:11 PM 6/27/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
>-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
> I was working on a mentalist character the other day, trying to achieve
>effects within a reasonable point cost. It struck me how uneven the power
>balance is for mental powers vs. regular attack powers. For instance, an
>energy blast can take a target out of the fight by reducing stun MUCH longer
>than a mentalist can with mind control.
> Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it. What if
>mentalists were given a bonus to their powers based on their ego in the way
>that fighters get a bonus based on strength. For instance, if I had a 20
>ego and a 4d6 ego attack, I'd actually get a 6d6 ego attack.
For reasons explained below, I would not allow this for free. However, I
might be persuaded to allow it as a +1/2 Advantage, roughly the equivalent
of "STR Adds" (which I do allow as a +1/2 Advantage, making RKA with STR
Adds the same as an HKA with Range). Probably I'd allow a -1/2 Limitation
on the Advantage (only) to represent the fact that it's EGO, not STR, that's
increasing the damage, though most mentalists' EGO is higher than their STR
so it'd take a good argument to convince me.
> If ego is, as it says in the rulesbook "strength of will", then it seems
>reasonable to me that an egoist with a higher strength of will would have a
>greater effect. I don't see the correlation between a high "strength of
>will" and a better ability to hit another person mentally (ECV). And since
>bricks can buy +1d6 h-t-h at three points per die PLUS their strength, and
>then get extra damage based on offensive maneuvers (move by, move through,
>etc.), it seems mentalists are crippled offensively.
> Not that they don't have their advantages. No range modifiers, for example
>. But thats just another example of how mentalists have an easy time
>hitting, but a hard time affecting their target.
This issue is similar to the classic balance between Martial Artists (low
defenses, high DCV) vs Bricks (high defenses, low DCV). The lack of Range
Modifers is just one advantage that mentalists have; another is the fact
that most non-Mentalists tend to stay with relatively low ECVs. In fact,
I've just recently learned that in many campaigns the non-mentalists never
even bother increasing their EGO scores above 10, nor buying any Mental Defense!
Also, there's the fact that Mental Powers can be used for various
non-combat effects, in much the way that STR can. For example, Mind Control
and Mental Illusions could be used (especially in concert) to trick an agent
into leading the PCs to the main villain's base.
Personally, I consider Mental Powers to be "a different flavor" -- in
some ways more powerful than other Powers, in some ways less, but on the
whole about balanced.
---
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Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:51:45 -0400
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Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:52:45 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Level playing field for mentalists
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At 01:11 PM 6/27/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
>-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
Some cut
> Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it. What if
>mentalists were given a bonus to their powers based on their ego in the way
>that fighters get a bonus based on strength. For instance, if I had a 20
>ego and a 4d6 ego attack, I'd actually get a 6d6 ego attack.
> If ego is, as it says in the rulesbook "strength of will", then it seems
>reasonable to me that an egoist with a higher strength of will would have a
>greater effect. I don't see the correlation between a high "strength of
>will" and a better ability to hit another person mentally (ECV). And since
>bricks can buy +1d6 h-t-h at three points per die PLUS their strength, and
>then get extra damage based on offensive maneuvers (move by, move through,
>etc.), it seems mentalists are crippled offensively.
> Not that they don't have their advantages. No range modifiers, for example
>. But thats just another example of how mentalists have an easy time
>hitting, but a hard time affecting their target.
> What do you think?
>
> -fugazi
>
That's an intesresting idea. I have been tossing around something similar. I
wanted to create a new mental combat system that used the mental stats in
the same way the physical combat used the physical. Powers would add to base
effects. IE:Ego attack would be the mental equivalent of HTH attack, Mind
Control adding to the effectiveness of mental "grabs" and so on.
Stress: The result of the surpressing the bodie's natural urge to choke the
living crap out of some jerk who so richly deserves it.
Any retail worker,anywhere
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:08:35 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: Level playing field for mentalists
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> I was working on a mentalist character the other day, trying to achieve
>effects within a reasonable point cost. It struck me how uneven the power
>balance is for mental powers vs. regular attack powers. For instance, an
>energy blast can take a target out of the fight by reducing stun MUCH longer
>than a mentalist can with mind control.
> Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it. What if
>mentalists were given a bonus to their powers based on their ego in the way
>that fighters get a bonus based on strength. For instance, if I had a 20
>ego and a 4d6 ego attack, I'd actually get a 6d6 ego attack.
You can kind of do this with HTA, vs EGO def, and range based on EGO...
works pretty well, for about 7 pts/die. Of course, your GM might have
apoplexy at seeing that.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Frictionless attack powers
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:17:09 -0400
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Re: Frictionless Entangle
How much of a limit would 'doesn't affect fliers' be? Or was it so
effective that even fliers couldn't get enough air friction to move?
>a wolverine-like character ended up jabbing his claws into the ground
>and pulling himself off of the frictionless spot (thus attacking the
>entangle). I thought it was clever use of a special effect.
That was indeed clever. It's one of the best uses of a special effect
I've seen in a while!
Dave Mattingly
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:59:33 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Frictionless attack powers
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Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> Re: Frictionless Entangle
>
> How much of a limit would 'doesn't affect fliers' be? Or was it so
> effective that even fliers couldn't get enough air friction to move?
>
It would be more like "while only touching the ground," and it should at
least be 1/2 limitation, maybe 3/4 but I think that is a little much.
Joel Vallejo
brotherguild has not moved in yet - please check back later.
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Frictionless attack powers
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
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Hey, what about increasing friction powers? You could make the air
soupy around you, and swim through the air like a fish. You could
climb up shear surfaces by making tricky handholds easier to hold
on to. You might be able to get some grappling bonuses. You could
work soapstone without any... uh... sandpaper. You could, um, light
matches on your hand. You could... erm.. hurt yourself on a waterslide.
Oh wait, come to think of it, friction reduction is a much more useful
power... oh well, so much for "Sandpaper Boy". Back to the drawing
board (hmmm... "Matter Eater Lad", I like the sound of that...).
-Eric
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:40:31 -0400
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: Re: Level playing field for mentalists
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> For reasons explained below, I would not allow this for free. However, I
>might be persuaded to allow it as a +1/2 Advantage, roughly the equivalent
>of "STR Adds" (which I do allow as a +1/2 Advantage, making RKA with STR
>Adds the same as an HKA with Range). Probably I'd allow a -1/2 Limitation
>on the Advantage (only) to represent the fact that it's EGO, not STR, that's
>increasing the damage, though most mentalists' EGO is higher than their STR
>so it'd take a good argument to convince me.
>
>> If ego is, as it says in the rulesbook "strength of will", then it seems
>>reasonable to me that an egoist with a higher strength of will would have a
>>greater effect. I don't see the correlation between a high "strength of
>>will" and a better ability to hit another person mentally (ECV). And since
>>bricks can buy +1d6 h-t-h at three points per die PLUS their strength, and
>>then get extra damage based on offensive maneuvers (move by, move through,
>>etc.), it seems mentalists are crippled offensively.
>> Not that they don't have their advantages. No range modifiers, for example
>>. But thats just another example of how mentalists have an easy time
>>hitting, but a hard time affecting their target.
I too have noticed the seemingly uneven playing field between
mentalists and other characters and their powers. My thoughts and
conclusions included:
* Mentalists are paying roughly double for their main attack power (ego
blast). Is their power roughtly twice as effective as a beamer's EB? My
answer to this was yes; with their greater advantage in the successful hit
column, and the usually significantly lower defense level, the attack is
almost twice as effective as the EB.
* Mentallists are paying about equal points for their other mental powers
in comparison to the beamer or others. However, for those 50-60 pts, the
mentalist is getting far less bang for his buck. 10d6 Mind control
averages 35 pts; but unlike the beamer's EB, which will apply the
left-overs immediately to STUN, with a good chance of Stunning a normal in
medium-grade armor, the Mentallists' 35 points are applied immediately to
overcome the target's EGO, and _then_ applied to a chart, determining their
effectiveness. A 15 Ego, and 13 pts of mental defense (3 base, and 10 more
for that 'medium grade armor'), and the leftover 7 pts can't even convince
the target to do something he didn't already feel like doing.
* For non-standard mental powers, Based On ECV is the standard advantage.
Yet based on ECV must be used in conjunction with invisible power effects
(at the +3/4 level, leaving the visibility to a single sense, being mental
senses) in order to make it a truly mental power. So, is it really worth
+1.75 advantage? The invisibility still seems right. But attacking vs.
ECV just seems too expensive to me; you still have to roll, and you still
have to face a defense. Yet we are making this advantage worth the same as
there being only one or two defenses around that can stop this power from
getting you at full blast? For the most part, this just seems like a +1/2
to me. Of course, I always wondered why invisible power effects was so
expensive, but its really not the point of this particular posting.
* Mental powers are pretty well exclusively mental, ie, mind. However,
they go off at the rate of normal speed, and dexterity, which are both
physical stats. Intelligence is described as quick thinking, the speed of
thought, etc., so why not base mental powers on Intelligence rather than
dexterity? I can't see giving a mentallist a 5 or 6 normal speed just to
allow them equal attacks to other heroes; unless they are rather unusual
mentallists, they just don't physically react that quickly. What was
needed was a new kind of speed, just for mental action and reaction. So I
created Mental Speed. I figured it was only half as effective, since the
majority of attacks still were physical and required a physical action to
dodge, and movement would still be controlled by physical speed. So I
costed it out at 5 pts per.
* When considering the inequalities of damage or effect for mental powers,
my first solution was to say that you simply removed EGO from the charts of
Mind Control and such. But characters with strong minds _should_ be harder
to affect than those with average or lesser minds. So I eventually settled
on an automatic character disadvantage for all characters: Vulnerability,
2x effect from mental powers. I have also allowed that characters can, if
within concept, buy off that disadvantage, or lessen it, via a Talent:
Resistant to Mental Powers, for 15 or 30 points (15 reduces the disad to
1.5x effect; 30 reduces to 1x effect). All characters now have mental
defense as a figured characteristic, since those who purchase points in MD
were getting EGO/5 free anyway. Why not give those points to everyone for
free, as it is only a few points.
So, by governing mental combat by Mental Speed, and Intelligence,
Mental Defense as a figured characteristic, and a vulnerability to all
characters of 2x effect from mental powers, I feel I have better acheived a
parity for mentallists in my campaign. And for those who feel that I have
given them an advantage, I say only this -- the advantage I give them, if
any, is nothing more than representative of the effectiveness of
mentallists in the source material for any campaign, aka comics.
David Miller
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:44:48 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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First, my apologies for those of you totally bored with this "fundamentalist"
thread - feel free to bail on this message here...
> Nothing I didn't get from the fundementalists own TV shows. As you go on to
> say there are variations with in any religious grouping. So the "powers" are
> bogus but also "real". Don't blame the media for pointing out the nuts that
> really exist.
Here's where I'd point out problems with the media, if I had like a year or
two for the details...
> > More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
> > groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
> > of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
>
> If we understand it, can we stereotype it. :)
Hey, I'm a Pentecostal, and these guys scare me - playing with poisonous
snakes, drinking poisons - reminds me of some frat guys I knew in college...
> > Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
> > groups out there as there are Protestant organizations...
>
> Of course. Who claimed otherwise?
Sure, fine. Just don't use the shotgun on all of us, and portray them as a
fringe group, not as "and fundamentalists all think this type of behavior is
acceptable".
> Depending on your definition of "normal". Are Catholics normal, are Mormons?
> Are Christians in general? Are Pagans?
Well, I'd say there are normal pagans, normal mormons and normal catholics.
Normality is a state of mind, not a state of grace.
> > So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
> > Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
> > government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
>
> Well they've come closer than the Catholics, Pagans, or Mormons.
Hmm - the Catholics have had a President. The Mormons have one state, and
strong minorities in the legislatures of several other states. The Pagans,
well, I suppose I could quote those articles about the Pentagon as the
sign of our government's true allegiance, but since I break out laughing
every time I read them...
> > Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
> > same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
> > groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
> > and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
> > Jim Bakker was "Assemblies of God" (in fact, my father went to Bible College
> > with him, says he was a great minister till he met that "witch")
>
> Check his views on Revelation, brilliant stuff.
Jim Bakker? Revelation? Just one of many interpretations. Every decade has
a new take on this old book. My bible says "No man knows the time or place",
so when someone starts mentioning dates, I tend to ignore them...
> > Now, note that these three men were all different denominations - in fact,
> > Mr. Falwell is technically Baptist with Holiness influence, not Pentecostal.
>
> I'm not sure "real" Baptist want him either.
Which Baptists? There's plenty of varieties...
> Sue us for exploring deeper more meaningful issues. That's what religion is
> about, right?
If using a fundamentalist minister as an evil villian is your view of
"exploring deeper more meaningful issues", well...
> Again, did anyone ever use the word "all". I seem to recall the world "fringe".
> These people exist, we never said they were you.
I used the word fringe. The original posting was just on "Fundamentalists".
> > My grandfather would give birth to a calf before being lumped with a Baptist
> > on any issue (for those who don't understand English, that's "have a cow").
>
> Aren't they both Christians? (That's one issue, where's the calf?)
Depends on your point of view (ie, not to my Grandfather).
> Now calm down and don't lump those of us who like discussing religion
> and it's fringes with the ignorant bastards who don't support freedom
> of religion.
Well, there's a declaration of tolerance if I've ever read one.
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:44:48 CDT
X-To: hero-l@october.com
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
X-Listname: Hero
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First, my apologies for those of you totally bored with this "fundamentalist"
thread - feel free to bail on this message here...
> Nothing I didn't get from the fundementalists own TV shows. As you go on to
> say there are variations with in any religious grouping. So the "powers" are
> bogus but also "real". Don't blame the media for pointing out the nuts that
> really exist.
Here's where I'd point out problems with the media, if I had like a year or
two for the details...
> > More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
> > groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
> > of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
>
> If we understand it, can we stereotype it. :)
Hey, I'm a Pentecostal, and these guys scare me - playing with poisonous
snakes, drinking poisons - reminds me of some frat guys I knew in college...
> > Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
> > groups out there as there are Protestant organizations...
>
> Of course. Who claimed otherwise?
Sure, fine. Just don't use the shotgun on all of us, and portray them as a
fringe group, not as "and fundamentalists all think this type of behavior is
acceptable".
> Depending on your definition of "normal". Are Catholics normal, are Mormons?
> Are Christians in general? Are Pagans?
Well, I'd say there are normal pagans, normal mormons and normal catholics.
Normality is a state of mind, not a state of grace.
> > So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
> > Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
> > government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
>
> Well they've come closer than the Catholics, Pagans, or Mormons.
Hmm - the Catholics have had a President. The Mormons have one state, and
strong minorities in the legislatures of several other states. The Pagans,
well, I suppose I could quote those articles about the Pentagon as the
sign of our government's true allegiance, but since I break out laughing
every time I read them...
> > Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
> > same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
> > groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
> > and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
> > Jim Bakker was "Assemblies of God" (in fact, my father went to Bible College
> > with him, says he was a great minister till he met that "witch")
>
> Check his views on Revelation, brilliant stuff.
Jim Bakker? Revelation? Just one of many interpretations. Every decade has
a new take on this old book. My bible says "No man knows the time or place",
so when someone starts mentioning dates, I tend to ignore them...
> > Now, note that these three men were all different denominations - in fact,
> > Mr. Falwell is technically Baptist with Holiness influence, not Pentecostal.
>
> I'm not sure "real" Baptist want him either.
Which Baptists? There's plenty of varieties...
> Sue us for exploring deeper more meaningful issues. That's what religion is
> about, right?
If using a fundamentalist minister as an evil villian is your view of
"exploring deeper more meaningful issues", well...
> Again, did anyone ever use the word "all". I seem to recall the world "fringe".
> These people exist, we never said they were you.
I used the word fringe. The original posting was just on "Fundamentalists".
> > My grandfather would give birth to a calf before being lumped with a Baptist
> > on any issue (for those who don't understand English, that's "have a cow").
>
> Aren't they both Christians? (That's one issue, where's the calf?)
Depends on your point of view (ie, not to my Grandfather).
> Now calm down and don't lump those of us who like discussing religion
> and it's fringes with the ignorant bastards who don't support freedom
> of religion.
Well, there's a declaration of tolerance if I've ever read one.
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:49:29 CDT
X-To: hero-l@october.com
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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> Sorry, Todd, I was looking at it as an issue of your right to present
> your scenario versus the claims of those saying you're closed minded.
> You presnted a fairly brilliant idea that could only be construed as
> insulting to the anal. Making sure that such presentation are allowed
> and defended seemed on topic to me. The religous specifics probably aren't
> except in how they affect the scenario itself.
No. His original presentation depicted "Fundamentalists" and "Pentecostals"
as a monolithic group of fringe cultists.
I spoke out because it was incorrect; I never said he didn't have the right
to act like a bigoted jerk, I just said his depiction was incorrect.
Great - I'm arguing with one person who believes it's his duty to defend
any posting on the internet containing the word religion, no matter how
factually wrong, and another who could care less about the facts.
Have fun in your games, and shoot those 12d6 EBs at the guys holding the
bibles... "Exploration of deeper, more meaningful issues..."
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:49:29 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> Sorry, Todd, I was looking at it as an issue of your right to present
> your scenario versus the claims of those saying you're closed minded.
> You presnted a fairly brilliant idea that could only be construed as
> insulting to the anal. Making sure that such presentation are allowed
> and defended seemed on topic to me. The religous specifics probably aren't
> except in how they affect the scenario itself.
No. His original presentation depicted "Fundamentalists" and "Pentecostals"
as a monolithic group of fringe cultists.
I spoke out because it was incorrect; I never said he didn't have the right
to act like a bigoted jerk, I just said his depiction was incorrect.
Great - I'm arguing with one person who believes it's his duty to defend
any posting on the internet containing the word religion, no matter how
factually wrong, and another who could care less about the facts.
Have fun in your games, and shoot those 12d6 EBs at the guys holding the
bibles... "Exploration of deeper, more meaningful issues..."
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Religion in Games
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:01:06 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Crusade, crusade...
>
> ROTFL.
Wait - here's one - Ok, does "linked" mean the smaller attack can ONLY be
used with the larger attack it's linked to, or...
Or - GURPS is (oh, wait, GURPS makes me violently ill. I'll pass on this
comment).
Here - Fuzion is a significant improvement on Fourth Edition Champs, and
anyone who doesn't move up is silly...
How are those for religious wars ;)
> > Besides, we Fundamentalists are supposed to make a
> > lot of noise and be obnoxious, apparently.
>
> Nah, just the Evangelics. :)
Sigh. Evangelicals... Am I wearing a bullseye today, or what?
> > Honestly, though. As a GM, I've had Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists,
> > Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans and EVEN one
> > declared Budist (he worshipped "Bud", apparently).
>
> Players or characters?
Players...
> I've ran Southern Baptists, devout Catholics, numerous pagans, Zen masters,
> and Taoists. One of the Baptist was a fun character because everyone assumed he
> would be the joke stereotype. I played him very straight and intelligently
> and took his religion very seriously. Hopefully educated a few folks in the
> process.
There you go. Why a joking stereotype, I wonder... The campaign I'm in
tonight is run by our resident Southern Baptist...
> I've had players who were Mormon, Wiccan, Athiest, and even a Thor cultist.
Our Agnostic and our Pagan dated for four months, and now neither will game...
And they can't stand each other being in the same room... Something about
the relevance of Tarot as a scrying device literally broke them up...
> (I'm a Pantheist. My God's bigger than yours. :))
I thought that was his flute!
(ok, I'm going to have to pray after that one...)
> > Needless to say, I
> > avoid religious plotlines,
>
> Heck, I've embraced them. The big issues are fun to play with. Some of my
> best supporting cast have been Angels and Demons. I even had a player
> character actually become God once. (It was kind of a Starlin/Lovecraft riff.)
We've had PC angels, and PC quasi-demons... ON SUPERHERO TEAMS...
> Strangely enough it's usually the Atheist and Agnostics who complain when I
> do the religous themes. The devout realize it's a game and a fiction, while
> the unbelievers seem to think these elements throw them back out of the reality
> of the setting.
I'll agree there... Our resident Southern Baptist runs the most controversial
religious stuff... And my "evil mentalist uses powerful figures in big
religious circles to make himself fulfill prophecy" plot caused the Agnostic
some serious problems... (which is why I haven't messed with religion for a
while)
> I'm actually very interested on hearing the religous takes from other campaigns.
It's obvious from the list traffic that several have run "Christian" teams;
anyone do "other religion" teams? I mean, sure, norse and greek types are
easy, but others?
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:01:06 CDT
X-To: hero-l@october.com
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Religion in Games
X-Listname: Hero
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> > Crusade, crusade...
>
> ROTFL.
Wait - here's one - Ok, does "linked" mean the smaller attack can ONLY be
used with the larger attack it's linked to, or...
Or - GURPS is (oh, wait, GURPS makes me violently ill. I'll pass on this
comment).
Here - Fuzion is a significant improvement on Fourth Edition Champs, and
anyone who doesn't move up is silly...
How are those for religious wars ;)
> > Besides, we Fundamentalists are supposed to make a
> > lot of noise and be obnoxious, apparently.
>
> Nah, just the Evangelics. :)
Sigh. Evangelicals... Am I wearing a bullseye today, or what?
> > Honestly, though. As a GM, I've had Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists,
> > Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans and EVEN one
> > declared Budist (he worshipped "Bud", apparently).
>
> Players or characters?
Players...
> I've ran Southern Baptists, devout Catholics, numerous pagans, Zen masters,
> and Taoists. One of the Baptist was a fun character because everyone assumed he
> would be the joke stereotype. I played him very straight and intelligently
> and took his religion very seriously. Hopefully educated a few folks in the
> process.
There you go. Why a joking stereotype, I wonder... The campaign I'm in
tonight is run by our resident Southern Baptist...
> I've had players who were Mormon, Wiccan, Athiest, and even a Thor cultist.
Our Agnostic and our Pagan dated for four months, and now neither will game...
And they can't stand each other being in the same room... Something about
the relevance of Tarot as a scrying device literally broke them up...
> (I'm a Pantheist. My God's bigger than yours. :))
I thought that was his flute!
(ok, I'm going to have to pray after that one...)
> > Needless to say, I
> > avoid religious plotlines,
>
> Heck, I've embraced them. The big issues are fun to play with. Some of my
> best supporting cast have been Angels and Demons. I even had a player
> character actually become God once. (It was kind of a Starlin/Lovecraft riff.)
We've had PC angels, and PC quasi-demons... ON SUPERHERO TEAMS...
> Strangely enough it's usually the Atheist and Agnostics who complain when I
> do the religous themes. The devout realize it's a game and a fiction, while
> the unbelievers seem to think these elements throw them back out of the reality
> of the setting.
I'll agree there... Our resident Southern Baptist runs the most controversial
religious stuff... And my "evil mentalist uses powerful figures in big
religious circles to make himself fulfill prophecy" plot caused the Agnostic
some serious problems... (which is why I haven't messed with religion for a
while)
> I'm actually very interested on hearing the religous takes from other campaigns.
It's obvious from the list traffic that several have run "Christian" teams;
anyone do "other religion" teams? I mean, sure, norse and greek types are
easy, but others?
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in groups...
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:07:24 CDT
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> > I've played in many different dynamics, and have found that the more
> > "basically similar" the outlook of the players, the greater the
> > diversity of plots available.
>
> I've found the opposite. A diversity of player views will send me in
> directions I would never have thought of in a homogenous group.
Great - I'm still agreeing with you - diversity of views promotes diversity
of plots...
> I actually like it when the CHARCTERS have slightly differing views on
> such things. Mature players excel in such situations and make the game
> more memorable. Takes it beyond the mere "We have to stop the bad guys"
> level.
Or better, those "balance of the cosmos" types...
> I prefer broadening horizons and preaching tolorance to playing to peoples
> pet taboos. YMMV. I tend to run a style where the "villians" will be on the
Well, as someone who almost was a preacher ;), I'll pass...
> side of the angels occasionally. It's more interesting to me having to stop
> Doom despite owing your mother's life to him. Or issues like, can we kill
> the rampaging dragon or is it murder (or even a violation of the Endangered
> Species act)?
Yes - showing that the villians have motivations and emotions as well; or
a bad guy who won't kill saving innocent lives during a combat by stopping
a flying car from a bad throw... That stuff bothers some would-be heroes...
> > Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
> > it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
>
> It will. :)
> Did I just say something about tolerance?
Woooooosh! Roll him around on the floor, he'll be ok...
> > If anyone wants to discuss religious ideas over private E-mail I'd be
> > happy to, but I figured to keep it off the list. 8)
>
> Well as long as we stay on topic, concerning games...
Just be careful; we had a FORMER member of our group run a plotline which
really caused problems with the Christian and Jewish characters in one team,
and it was because the GM thought Jews were just a separate branch of
Christianity, but still worshipped Christ...
Of course, his idea of research was to watch the movie twice...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:07:24 CDT
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Subject: Re: Belief diversity in groups...
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> > I've played in many different dynamics, and have found that the more
> > "basically similar" the outlook of the players, the greater the
> > diversity of plots available.
>
> I've found the opposite. A diversity of player views will send me in
> directions I would never have thought of in a homogenous group.
Great - I'm still agreeing with you - diversity of views promotes diversity
of plots...
> I actually like it when the CHARCTERS have slightly differing views on
> such things. Mature players excel in such situations and make the game
> more memorable. Takes it beyond the mere "We have to stop the bad guys"
> level.
Or better, those "balance of the cosmos" types...
> I prefer broadening horizons and preaching tolorance to playing to peoples
> pet taboos. YMMV. I tend to run a style where the "villians" will be on the
Well, as someone who almost was a preacher ;), I'll pass...
> side of the angels occasionally. It's more interesting to me having to stop
> Doom despite owing your mother's life to him. Or issues like, can we kill
> the rampaging dragon or is it murder (or even a violation of the Endangered
> Species act)?
Yes - showing that the villians have motivations and emotions as well; or
a bad guy who won't kill saving innocent lives during a combat by stopping
a flying car from a bad throw... That stuff bothers some would-be heroes...
> > Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
> > it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
>
> It will. :)
> Did I just say something about tolerance?
Woooooosh! Roll him around on the floor, he'll be ok...
> > If anyone wants to discuss religious ideas over private E-mail I'd be
> > happy to, but I figured to keep it off the list. 8)
>
> Well as long as we stay on topic, concerning games...
Just be careful; we had a FORMER member of our group run a plotline which
really caused problems with the Christian and Jewish characters in one team,
and it was because the GM thought Jews were just a separate branch of
Christianity, but still worshipped Christ...
Of course, his idea of research was to watch the movie twice...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:08:39 CDT
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> I should sic the Paisley Avenger on you guys. He was an effiminate fencer and
> self appointed Fashion Cop. Very popular with the player who "got it" and very
> nauseating to the rest.
Could you post this? I've been meaning to build something like this, just
to annoy a certain costumed horror in my campaign (the costume is a horror).
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:08:39 CDT
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Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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> I should sic the Paisley Avenger on you guys. He was an effiminate fencer and
> self appointed Fashion Cop. Very popular with the player who "got it" and very
> nauseating to the rest.
Could you post this? I've been meaning to build something like this, just
to annoy a certain costumed horror in my campaign (the costume is a horror).
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
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From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:28:16 -0500
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 12:57 PM 6/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing",
>
>Don't watch much TV?
>
No actually I don't, but that's not relevant. I should perhaps have said
"Never MET anyone who claimed ...", I don't consider TV evangelist to be
"real" examples of religion, or even real examples of human... :)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 23:12:19 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: The Crossbreed (was : A scenario idea, yaddah yaddah)
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Eric Burns wrote:
> The Crossbreed made a brief appearance in Astro City #4. This is what
> was revealed about them:
Hmmm... local comic store is having a 40% off everything sale this
friday... think I'm gonna have to pick up some Astro City and see what
all the hubbub is about!
Anybody else have a favorite comic that is good for providing plot
ideas, or interesting characters??
Todd
From: Firelynx16@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:22:32 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
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In a message dated 97-06-27 17:46:57 EDT, you write:
<< > >Remember one important point: while Transformation will not add points
to
> >the "victim" (use UBO or UAO powers for this) it may be used to either
> >change the victim's point allocations as well as give them Disadvantages.
>
> This should be rephrased "while your GM may not allow Transforms to add
> points to the 'victim' in his campaign, it might still be used to ..."
>
> By the book, Transformation most certainly can "add" points to the
'victim'.
> For example, changing a dagger into a short sword (used as an example of a
> Minor Transform) increases the dagger's RKA by 5 active points (which
> probably works out to 1 points after limitations like Focus, STR Min,
etc.).
>
Yes, you're right, it does. I don't really like the idea of a wildcard
power, though, usable to simulate any effect without much further
definition. Admittedly, any transform requires GM approval, but I still
don't like the idea of something defined so vaguely as to be limited only
by a GM caveat. I mean, you may as well define the power "Do Anything",
15pts per 1d6 or +1 or +1", requires GM approval.
I'm inclined to agree with Dave that, at least in general, a Transform
should not add CP's, only transfer and decrease them. Maybe there
could be exceptions in special cases. For instance, how about
a transform that cures blindness? Or a transform that reverses a
transform? Or a transform that reverses the aging process?
I gather there is no dispute that shuffling or decreasing CP's is fair
game, it's just these special cases that are controversial. So the
only question that remains is under what circumstances can you add
CP's to an object, creature, or person?
For instance, I'd bet dollars to donuts that almost everyone here would
agree that if Animation Lad had the transformation ability of "transforms
stone statue of a person into a person" he could reverse a transform
done by Medusa Maid, after she turns Lightning Lass into stone, and
Lightning Lass would regain all of her powers, talents, etc. But
what happens if AL tries his power on a statue that was never a person?
What if he sculpts a statue of Lightning Lass and uses his transform
on it? Does the statue become a mental and physical duplicate of
Lightning Lass, or does the statue become a lifeless and mindless
corpse with a 12 BODY, a 4 for PD and ED, and 0 everything else (the
same as the stone statue)? Or does the statue become a 0 CP
character with a fraction of LL's abilities? Does anyone here believe
the statue should gain LL's full abilities at no additional cost?
Of course, AL could use a linked Aid (+2 affects all) (+<big number>
wears off very slow), but where should the baseline be? What do you get
by default in a transform?
Sorry to be such a pest... ;-)
-Eric
>>
Just my two cents on this debate... whether you decide 1) Transform can add
CP's as written, but only with GM approval, or 2) in general should not add
CP's, except in special cases, (which also require GM approval) it sounds to
me like you're saying the same thing. And if it is the same thing, there's
no reason to change the rules. I've always been of the idea that changing
the rules should only be the last resort, because you never quite know how
changing a rule, no matter how small, will affect the overall balance of the
game.
'Lynx
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:41:15 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RolePlaying - IT'S DEAD!!
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it's ddead!! i just poseted my opinion and his, one paragraph each, and that is the end of it for me. i will not speak of it again. promise.
At 08:23 AM 6/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>HAPPYELF!!!! wrote:
>>
>> > It doesn't fewkin matter if we are talking Hero, Fuzion, or fewkin D&D!
>> >The point is (ONE LAST TIME):
>
> << snip >>
>
>>
>> uh-huh? do i get the last word??? well, here it is anyway. . . .
>>
>
>When a 'discussion' degenerates to the point that you are both just
>repeating your arguements (a little bit louder) in the hopes that THIS
>time the other guy will understand - its time to let the whole thing
>die.
>
>It doesnt do any good to say 'Okay.. for the last time...', because you
>KNOW the other guys is going to re-state HIS point 'one last time'..
>which requires YOU to state YOUR point 'one last time', which requires
>HIM... you get the idea.
>
>Guys, can you drop this, or take it to email? It has NOTHING to do with
>Champions (at this point anyway) and is at a hopeless stalemate -
>neither side is going to admit they are wrong, or be convinced that the
>other side is right.
>
>
>Todd
>
>--
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
> BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:11:22 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Transform / Religion LONG
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At 06:27 PM 6/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>This e-mail has to do with both the Transform and Religion topics under
>discussion, hence the subject line.
>
>I ran a campaign a few years back with a cult style religious organization
>which had the ability to transform normal people into fanatical followers,
>and transform people into temporary, low-powered supers. This actually
>turned out to be a lot of fun. The campaign ended in mid-stream do to the
>dissolving of the players, but this had nothing to do with their religions.
>The campaign included Christen, Jewish, Pagan, and atheist players. It
>also had various NPCs with religious bents, and the only complaint I got
>was from one of the wiccan women. As a self proclaimed pagan and
>witch, she objected to a evil witch NPC. I believe she said that the evil
>witch was obviously not a true wiccan, just an occult mystic who called
>herself a witch. Once I reminded her of the difference between reality
>and a game universe, she stopped complaining.
>
i have a dude called aspect who transforms people to "dark" versions
and ressurects dead supervillans, AND warps reality- he's real spooky, easily
converted to 'cult leader' type guy- anyone interested??
>The cult-like organization, Millennium, became one of the major *evil*
>organizations in my campaign. As well as a great source of moral
>quandaries for the players.
>
>When the campaign ended Millennium had just entered a new phase.
>Using a derivative of the smasher serum, Millennium developed a method
>of sometimes detecting people with potential super powers before their
>powers manifested themselves. These tests could be run without
>alerting the subject in most cases. Millennium agents began infiltrating
>schools and nurseries. Millennium also set up there own special
>schools. Parents were approached about transferring their kids to the
>schools. A number of these families joined Millennium. Some children
>were kidnaped. The campaign ended just after the heroes had sneaked
>into one of these schools looking for a kidnaped child, and discovered a
>class of 10 year-olds gleefully reciting loyalty pledges to Millennium.
>
>Daniel Flacks
>dflacks@evron.com
>
oh, nice finale!! *lol*
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:20:14 +1000
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 12:57 PM 6/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>herolist wrote:
>>
>> From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
>> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
>> To: champ-l@omg.org
>>
>> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
>> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
>> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
>> with
>> >> the Devil"... sorry...
>> >
>> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
>> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>> >
>>
>> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing",
>
>Don't watch much TV?
>
>
i think a group which thinks superpoweres are gifts from God is valid- but only
as far as many religious types believe ALL, sorry, _all_ good things are gifts from God.
geddit? anything else would be really pretentious! That's just my opinion.
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:22:17 +1000
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Re: Religion in Games
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>
>Heck, I've embraced them. The big issues are fun to play with. Some of my
>best supporting cast have been Angels and Demons. I even had a player
>character actually become God once. (It was kind of a Starlin/Lovecraft riff.)
>
>Strangely enough it's usually the Atheist and Agnostics who complain when I
>do the religous themes. The devout realize it's a game and a fiction, while
>the unbelievers seem to think these elements throw them back out of the reality
>of the setting.
>
>I'm actually very interested on hearing the religous takes from other campaigns.
>
>
note that historically speaking, european medievil plays grew out of improvisation of the . . er. . . passion play,
wasn't it??
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:27:44 +1000
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Subject: Re: Belief diversity in groups...
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i do the old "yank " type group- maybe start off fine,
but dissolve every time the threat wares off- corny i
know, but it is the best balance of conflict i can find-
and i do lluuuuve them hero civil disputes!
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:32:24 +1000
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Subject: Re: Religion in Games
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>
>> I'm actually very interested on hearing the religous takes from other campaigns.
>
>It's obvious from the list traffic that several have run "Christian" teams;
>anyone do "other religion" teams? I mean, sure, norse and greek types are
>easy, but others?
>
>
>DonM.
>--
>============================================================================
>= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
>= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
>= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
>= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
>============================================================================
>
>
my best was a recent group of heros who decided they were god- one of them made
a psionic tech unit which boosted their powers by tapping feelings of
"faith" from "worshippers" , really just like a tk boost from normals.
(to fight an alien invasion) but it had the side efect of giving
delsions of grandure- but as a split personality-
Yup, i've cannibalised the THUNDEBOLTS plot already!!! the team
has soent ages trying to track down the "true Gods", but they are never
are around when they're awake. . . . . *eg*
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:57:14 +1000
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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>Great - I'm arguing with one person who believes it's his duty to defend
>any posting on the internet containing the word religion, no matter how
>factually wrong, and another who could care less about the facts.
>
>Have fun in your games, and shoot those 12d6 EBs at the guys holding the
>bibles... "Exploration of deeper, more meaningful issues..."
>
>
>DonM.
>
>--
>============================================================================
>= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
>= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
>= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
>= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
>============================================================================
>
>
okies- here's my 10c (again).
this time, i've decided to embark on a foolish and dangerous hypothetical
viewpoint-note this is a scenario type thingie, ignore it if u want.
this character's religion states that any religion who
has the letter "Q" in it's name is satanic, but those who
don't have one are still satanic, but just leave the "Q"
silent for pr reasons. he has a team of like - minded
super-allies, and they go around either :
A)looking for proof
that the letter "Q" may have been written on
signs and leaflets and stuff written by religions,
but has been cleverly removed.
B)beating up anybody they want, useiong the "silent Q"
hypothesis
or,
C) kill and torture every religious fundamentalist they find.
what i ask is:
how seriously would you take such a group, working from each
of the possible scenarios?
would you take a group with simmilar, though more religiousl;y authetic
beliefs, any more seriously?
isn't it valid that the more authentic a group is, the easier it is to
get a serious story out of???
It seems to me that a fair chunk of this debate is semi-dishonsest-
the truth is it's easier to bet a serious discussion/roleplay
going about something like religion (especially with judicious use of steryotypes)
than it is a more 'mundane' concept like a villan robbing a bank.
Personally, i think pulling out the "big guns" like this every time
you want a serious story is a cop-out, and everyone does it more then they should.
particularly, i notice a lot of religious types get sick of the GM trotting out
the religion or death issue constantly for the 'serious session' of the month-
banal babble about it really being agnostics and athiests who complain the most
notwhithstanding.
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 02:03:30 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Don McKinney wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Todd, I was looking at it as an issue of your right to present
> > your scenario versus the claims of those saying you're closed minded.
> > You presnted a fairly brilliant idea that could only be construed as
> > insulting to the anal. Making sure that such presentation are allowed
> > and defended seemed on topic to me. The religous specifics probably aren't
> > except in how they affect the scenario itself.
>
> No. His original presentation depicted "Fundamentalists" and "Pentecostals"
> as a monolithic group of fringe cultists.
ummm... my original presentation never once mentioned either
'Fundamentalist' OR 'Pentecostals'. If you saw those terms in my post,
I suggest you get your eyes checked. In fact, my 'original
presentation' specifically did NOT mention any particular religion - it
referred to a generic 'christian group' that was protesting a musician
with a satanic theme. (based on an actual, real life event, btw)
> I spoke out because it was incorrect; I never said he didn't have the right
> to act like a bigoted jerk, I just said his depiction was incorrect.
and exactly how am I a bigoted jerk? and what about my depiction was
incorrect?
If you would like, I can email you my original post and you can explain
to me exactly where I stepped on your religious toes.
But lets do it in email, cuz this has NOTHING to do with Champions.
Todd
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From: "Daniel." <MLash@flash.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 02:28:42 -0500
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Subject: Re: Internet-based RPGs
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Darrin Kelley wrote:
>
> After reading through a copy of the Official Netscape Gold 3.0 Book,
> I got an idea. To use Cool Talk conferencing software to run roleplaying
> games over the Internet. Which would give, relatively, the same effect
> as running a game face to face. And in some cases better. Because
> character pictures, battlefield maps, and a variety of other campaign
> related materials could be broadcast simultaneously to all of the
> players from the GM with a simple push of a button. Which could make the
> GM's job considerably easier. (Although handling die rolling conventions
> definately will have to be something I still have to figure out.)
>
They do this on IRC using mIRC or Pirch. There are also little script
"programs" for these that will role dice for you, you just have to look
for them. IF your intreasted send me email..Chaosdrgn@hotmail.com
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 2:31:47 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> ummm... my original presentation never once mentioned either
> 'Fundamentalist' OR 'Pentecostals'. If you saw those terms in my post,
> I suggest you get your eyes checked. In fact, my 'original
> presentation' specifically did NOT mention any particular religion - it
> referred to a generic 'christian group' that was protesting a musician
> with a satanic theme. (based on an actual, real life event, btw)
You are correct. My response was to someone else, and we (myself and others)
have totally confused the subjects...
I'm a product of my management. Ugh.
> and exactly how am I a bigoted jerk? and what about my depiction was
> incorrect?
Wrong depiction. Actually, Marilyn Manson has a great product - he
makes money if you like the stuff, and those "brilliant" folks who buy
it for more fires...
> If you would like, I can email you my original post and you can explain
> to me exactly where I stepped on your religious toes.
Nope. Just confusing the ol' subject lines...
> But lets do it in email, cuz this has NOTHING to do with Champions.
Sure it does. For example, I might be a viper agent, paid to delay
Alliances by attempting to draw out members of the HERO staff via
bait and switch tactics, while attempting to hack into their new
web site and switch the FUZION rules file with a copy of "Marvel
Super Heroes, Basic Rules"...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 2:49:03 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> this time, i've decided to embark on a foolish and dangerous hypothetical
> viewpoint-note this is a scenario type thingie, ignore it if u want.
>
> this character's religion states that any religion who
> has the letter "Q" in it's name is satanic, but those who
> don't have one are still satanic, but just leave the "Q"
> silent for pr reasons. he has a team of like - minded
> super-allies, and they go around either :
>
> what i ask is:
> how seriously would you take such a group, working from each
> of the possible scenarios?
>
> A)looking for proof
> that the letter "Q" may have been written on
> signs and leaflets and stuff written by religions,
> but has been cleverly removed.
This is a good one - scholars working in secret, fearing they might
be found before discovering "the truth"...
> B)beating up anybody they want, useiong the "silent Q"
> hypothesis
Thugs. Boring.
> or,
> C) kill and torture every religious fundamentalist they find.
Worse - just outright butcherers...
> would you take a group with simmilar, though more religiousl;y authetic
> beliefs, any more seriously?
As long as they don't just go around killing and torturing members of
other religions...
> isn't it valid that the more authentic a group is, the easier it is to
> get a serious story out of???
Hmm... like having a group of Islamic terrorists plot to blow up the
World Trade Center?
> It seems to me that a fair chunk of this debate is semi-dishonsest-
> the truth is it's easier to bet a serious discussion/roleplay
> going about something like religion (especially with judicious use
> of steryotypes) than it is a more 'mundane' concept like a villan
> robbing a bank.
Nope. Just how much emotion you put into it. For example, I had a Vietnam
War buddies hold up a bank, except a team member was flying by, and he
contacted the rest of the team, and the TV crews came in...
Well, anyway, the mentalist discovered these guys weren't at all hardened
criminals, and didn't want to get hurt. So, having slipped in unnoticed,
she revealed herself to them, and talked them into surrendering. Seems
one of the guys' daughter had gotten into the wrong crowd, and owed them
bigtime for $$$ for drugs, damages, etc. So, they kidnapped her, and told
Dad that if he didn't pay the half a million, she'd be on a boat to
South East Asia that night...
So, the team negotiated the crisis out, nailed the drug ring and saved
the girl. She got rehab, the vets got probation and time served, and
community service, because the DA didn't want the trial during an election
year, and the team looked good for only the real bad guys, the drug lords,
getting hurt.
> Personally, i think pulling out the "big guns" like this every time
> you want a serious story is a cop-out, and everyone does it more then
> they should. particularly, i notice a lot of religious types get sick
> of the GM trotting out the religion or death issue constantly for the
> 'serious session' of the month- banal babble about it really being
> agnostics and athiests who complain the most notwhithstanding.
Well, if the GM is stuck on that plot as a crutch, there's a problem.
However, I've seen religion handled respectfully, and still dealt with,
in a Champs game.
It's like this - the CLOWN material is very funny to read. But how many
of us have seen a bad GM totally ruin the concept? In fact, my current
group has banned CLOWN-like organizations, ever since a pathetic GM no
longer with the group ruined them for all of us in one run...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 2:49:03 CDT
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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> this time, i've decided to embark on a foolish and dangerous hypothetical
> viewpoint-note this is a scenario type thingie, ignore it if u want.
>
> this character's religion states that any religion who
> has the letter "Q" in it's name is satanic, but those who
> don't have one are still satanic, but just leave the "Q"
> silent for pr reasons. he has a team of like - minded
> super-allies, and they go around either :
>
> what i ask is:
> how seriously would you take such a group, working from each
> of the possible scenarios?
>
> A)looking for proof
> that the letter "Q" may have been written on
> signs and leaflets and stuff written by religions,
> but has been cleverly removed.
This is a good one - scholars working in secret, fearing they might
be found before discovering "the truth"...
> B)beating up anybody they want, useiong the "silent Q"
> hypothesis
Thugs. Boring.
> or,
> C) kill and torture every religious fundamentalist they find.
Worse - just outright butcherers...
> would you take a group with simmilar, though more religiousl;y authetic
> beliefs, any more seriously?
As long as they don't just go around killing and torturing members of
other religions...
> isn't it valid that the more authentic a group is, the easier it is to
> get a serious story out of???
Hmm... like having a group of Islamic terrorists plot to blow up the
World Trade Center?
> It seems to me that a fair chunk of this debate is semi-dishonsest-
> the truth is it's easier to bet a serious discussion/roleplay
> going about something like religion (especially with judicious use
> of steryotypes) than it is a more 'mundane' concept like a villan
> robbing a bank.
Nope. Just how much emotion you put into it. For example, I had a Vietnam
War buddies hold up a bank, except a team member was flying by, and he
contacted the rest of the team, and the TV crews came in...
Well, anyway, the mentalist discovered these guys weren't at all hardened
criminals, and didn't want to get hurt. So, having slipped in unnoticed,
she revealed herself to them, and talked them into surrendering. Seems
one of the guys' daughter had gotten into the wrong crowd, and owed them
bigtime for $$$ for drugs, damages, etc. So, they kidnapped her, and told
Dad that if he didn't pay the half a million, she'd be on a boat to
South East Asia that night...
So, the team negotiated the crisis out, nailed the drug ring and saved
the girl. She got rehab, the vets got probation and time served, and
community service, because the DA didn't want the trial during an election
year, and the team looked good for only the real bad guys, the drug lords,
getting hurt.
> Personally, i think pulling out the "big guns" like this every time
> you want a serious story is a cop-out, and everyone does it more then
> they should. particularly, i notice a lot of religious types get sick
> of the GM trotting out the religion or death issue constantly for the
> 'serious session' of the month- banal babble about it really being
> agnostics and athiests who complain the most notwhithstanding.
Well, if the GM is stuck on that plot as a crutch, there's a problem.
However, I've seen religion handled respectfully, and still dealt with,
in a Champs game.
It's like this - the CLOWN material is very funny to read. But how many
of us have seen a bad GM totally ruin the concept? In fact, my current
group has banned CLOWN-like organizations, ever since a pathetic GM no
longer with the group ruined them for all of us in one run...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 28 Jun 97 08:28:00 GMT
Subject: Internet-based RPGs
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Path: october!darrin.kelley
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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After reading through a copy of the Official Netscape Gold 3.0 Book,
I got an idea. To use Cool Talk conferencing software to run roleplaying
games over the Internet. Which would give, relatively, the same effect
as running a game face to face. And in some cases better. Because
character pictures, battlefield maps, and a variety of other campaign
related materials could be broadcast simultaneously to all of the
players from the GM with a simple push of a button. Which could make the
GM's job considerably easier. (Although handling die rolling conventions
definately will have to be something I still have to figure out.)
You see, I am separated by 1,200 miles from most of the original
members of my original, and best, game group. This concept will allow
most of the group to reunite, as the bulk have computers capable of
handling the necessary software. And when I brought it up, I have
already recieved some very positive feedback from a few members of that
group.
But at this moment, several conplications are still in the picture.
Scheduling constraints are one. But one of the biggest is the fact that
I haven't yet tested the program out well enough to understand what the
maximum amount of people the program can handle in a conference at one
time is. So I'm not even sure my idea is possible.
If someone does know the information I am seeking, please let me
know. It will be greatly appreciated.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 28 Jun 97 08:35:02 GMT
Subject: I need information.
X-Listname: Hero
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This is a general request.
As I will soon have a new computer and a full internet account, I
need all the Web Page and Mailing List addresses related to Hero Games,
The Hero System, and Fuzion that I can get. And when it comes to the
Mailing Lists, I need the necessary addresses and methods to subscribe
to them described to me.
And please, send me the information by E-Mail. I don't want to
clutter up the Mailing List more than necessary.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--
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From: Burns <rosewood@EastKY.Com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:47:46 -0500
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for characte
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Opal wrote:
>
> h > > - A Christian mystic (a Gnostic, Enochian, Templar, or Mason,
> h > perhaps)
> h > > again, similiar to the other magick-wielders, but with a
> h > different
> h > > special effect.
> h >
> h > Any suggestions as to what would be appropriate powers wise for such a
> h > character? Any required disads?
>
> Keeping it fairly tame, Dispel to send demons back to thier home plane,
> Supress against evil magickal powers, Detect to identify shapechanged
> or hidden demons, a small Aid or Healing power, and some sort of
> Exorcism (Transform or Dispel depending on how possessions work).
>
> For an over-the-top character (this is an anime-inspired game),
> a flaming sword or lance effect, blazing light that kills vampires
> or dispels illusions, Transforms (water into wine, people into pillars
> of salt, whatever), Resurection, totally uncontrolled but very
> powerful effects (earthquakes, bizare stuff like the 10 plagues).
>
> Enochian mystics summoned demons and angels. They had a large
> list to choose from with a demon or angel that was a specialist
> in just about any task you could think of... they just had to
> have the right name, and the right ritual to summon and command
> it. Demons demand a price, and angels only act if the cause
> is rightous and the summoner devout and sincere.
>
> For a more combat oriented character, have a modernized Templar
> (for thier day they were impressive fighters with the best
> weapons and armor, why shouldn't a 'modern' Templar have the
> best weapons and armor he can get? - preferably blessed of
> course). Add the detect and Aid above. Or, worse yet:
> CyberPaladin!
>
> ___
> * OFFLINE 1.58
Templars also has the greatest spy organization of their day.
You might want to play this up.
TJB
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:09:31 +0000
Subject: Re: Level playing field
Reply-To: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> h > Mind Control and such. But characters with strong minds
> _should_ be h > to affect than those with average or lesser minds.
> So I eventually h > on an automatic character disadvantage for all
> characters: h > Vulnerability, 2x effect from mental powers. I
> have also allowed that h > within concept, buy off that
> disadvantage, or lessen it, via a Talent: h > Resistant to Mental
> Powers, for 15 or 30 points (15 reduces the disad
>
> Mystic Masters suggested this. Fine for games where you want Mental
> powers to be dominant.
When I saw that in Mystic Masters, I knew they had made a mistake.
The effect they were going for is not quite the same as what they
got.
In mystic supers comics, Mind Control doesn't just instantly work.
First, you have to force the subject slowly into submission. "Give me
the sword of Arthur." "No." "Give it to me." "No..." "You cannot
resist me." "NO! You can't have it!" "Submit!" "Get out of my
mind!!!" "Submit." "Yes, master."
There are two ways to run this one. One is EGO Drain, based upon EGO,
possibly linked to the Mind Control. When the EGO is low enough, they
do as you say. This is particularly useful in campaigns that allow
negative characteristics, such as described in the Hero System Annual
I. This also explains why the character, once dominated, does
whatever the mentalist says, rather than having a new fight for every
command.
The other way would be to allow the Transform advantage Cumulative
with Mind Control and other mental powers. Each new role that isn't
successfully resisted adds to the control. Additionally, for those
who want a low power Mind Control that slowly takes over the target
("For days I've been hearing this voice in my head." Short while
later, "I must obey the voice! Die, senator!"), you could add the
advantage from Aid that allows you to buy the ability to go above
your maximum dice roll, 2 pt. increased maximum effect per point.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 03:21:25 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: Level playing field for mentalists
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-=> Quoting Fugazi to Mike Lehmann <=-
Fu> I was working on a mentalist character the other day, trying to
Fu> achieve effects within a reasonable point cost. It struck me how
Fu> uneven the power balance is for mental powers vs. regular attack
Fu> powers. For instance, an energy blast can take a target out of the
Fu> fight by reducing stun MUCH longer than a mentalist can with mind
Fu> control. Then I came upon this idea, and I'd like your feedback on it.
<snip>
An interesting idea, though it would make powers way too cheap (a 30 EGO
(6d6, 40 Active) + a 6d6 Mind Control (30 Active points), so 70 instead
of the regular 100 points are spent.
I suppose you could require it to be no range (which could be bought at
+1/2 Advantage), to keep it in-line with other powers.
I've taken a different approach and found something that seems to work
well:
Using Mental Defense as a standard stat (like PD and ED, at EGO/5), and
having the Mental Powers work directly against MD instead of EGO + MD.
ECV is still determined the same. IMO, it increases the effectiveness of
mental powers without requiring any major changes.
I'm still trying to determine what level of MD would be reasonable for
the NCM limit... any suggestions (besides 8, as with PD/ED)?
mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net - - - - - Justice Krewe / Enigma Watch GM
- - - - - - http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html - - - - - -
... Heisenburg may have slept here.
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net <<<<<<<<<<<
The TERMINAL BBS Fidonet; 1:358/17
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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:39:20 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net (Unverified)
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>But, despite the power, transform is rather easily defeated. Even 10 pips of
>>Power Defense can ruin most Transforms, even the Cumulative ones (which will
>>now take far too many hits to work to be practical). A high BODY count can
>>also make it difficult to use Transforms effectively. The aforementioned 6D6
>>Transform is helpless in the face of 19 BODY (19x2=38, which is more than
>>you can roll on 6D6).
>
>But then you can tack on things like Penetrating and Armour Piercing.
>
>Also, how about Find Weakness vs Power Defence?
Well then, you've effectively raised the active point total of the Transform
- after all, you do get what you pay for. That 6D6 Major Transform is 135
points if it's armor piercing or penetrating, and Find Weakness is neither
instant nor reliable (at a low cost level - and Find Weakness is EXPENSIVE).
>>And in practical terms, 15 BODY almost guarantees
>>safety from this 90 Active Point power
>
>On it's own, yes, but you get your friendly fighter/brick to hammer
>them first!
That's probably a bad interpretation - so you could instantly Transform
anyone with that 1/2D6 Major Transform as long as they're at negative BODY?
Nope. Transform works vs. the BODY stat, not your current BODY total. If
someone has a BODY stat of 15 but is currently at 5 BODY, they can still
resist Transform results up to 30, AFAIK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
else's house?"
-NHS #56
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:39:24 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net (Unverified)
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Looking for character id
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>- A victim. Really, sometimes it can be fun to play the character who's
>> best combat power is screaming for help. Should have useful noncombat
>> abilities, and a reason for being involved - a special sense, a
>> desperate need to find out something about the enemy/find a lost loved
>
>And bucket-loads of LUCK
Naah. Just "Summon Superhero, Fully Invisible, 0 END". Reminds me of
'Ordinary Guy' from Darkwing Duck...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
else's house?"
-NHS #56
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
X-Sender: sstaten@pop.erols.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:24:34 -0400
From: Scott Staten <sstaten@erols.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
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unsubscribe
Scott
******************************************************************************
* *
* "We are the makers of the music, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." *
* - Willy Wonka *
* *
* http://theorg.org/scott/ *************************************** ICQ 86580 *
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:29:38 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: More Than Meets The Eye
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:39 AM 6/28/97 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>That's probably a bad interpretation - so you could instantly Transform
>anyone with that 1/2D6 Major Transform as long as they're at negative BODY?
>Nope. Transform works vs. the BODY stat, not your current BODY total. If
>someone has a BODY stat of 15 but is currently at 5 BODY, they can still
>resist Transform results up to 30, AFAIK.
This is one more reason why I've made a house rule in my own campaigns that
damage is not "subtracted from" STUN, BODY, or END but rather "scored
against" -- that there's a clear separation between "points of stat" and
"points of damage" (which also makes, for example, a STUN Drain
significantly different from an NND).
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:44:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Bagabond
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
[well, I've been a bit busy and haven't been able to get to the last few
remaning GURPS Wild Cards adaptions like I wanted. But, I've managed to
finish off three more. I know have only 4 more character to write up: Kid
Dinosaur, Puppetman, Gerorge Steele and The Whisperer. Personally, I
think Puppetman's character sheet is going to be a monster...]
BAGABOND
(Suzanne Melotti)
Designers Notes:
Bagabond is a small woman, standing 5'3" and weighing 100 lbs, with long
dark brown hair. Currently, she is a bag lady, having nearly been driven
made by the sensation of suddenly receiving the sensory impressions of the
millions of animals around her. She dresses in cast off clothing, is
dirty, smells bad and lives in the streets. She is almost always
accompanied by two cats, a large black male and a smaller ginger female.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 8 -2
Dex 12 6
Con 10 0
Body 10 0
Int 10 0
Ego 15 10
Pre 10 0
Com 10 0
PD 2 0
ED 2 0
Spd 3 8
Rec 4 0
End 20 0
Stun 19 0
Char Total 22
Power Total 306
Total Cost 328
COST POWERS & SKILLS
25 EC: Animal Control powers, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
15 Clairisentience: Sight, hearing, smell, x 16 Range (2400" or 3
Miles), 0 END Must utilize an animal, point of view is controlled
by animal's actions (-1/2),
0 DCV Concentrate (throughout) (-1)
45 Mind Control: 12d6, Telepathic, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
35 Mind Scanning: 12d6, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
35 Telepathy: 12d6, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
28 Danger Sense: 15-, General Area, Any normally detectable atatck
(requires animals in the local area) (-1/4)
15 Mind Link: Any animal, 0 END, (usually maintained with "The
Black", see below)
51 Summon: 128 0 Point Animals, Any small animal (+1/4), 0 END,
Animals must arrive under own power (-1), Concentrate: 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
10 Followers: "The Black", a *very* large black cat, and a ginger
female cat
3 AK: New York City 12-
6 KS: Scrounging 15-
9 Shadowing 14-
9 Stealth 14-
3 Streetwise 11-
12 CSL: +4 with Animal Control Powers
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Homeless: poor hygiene and dress
10 Destitue
15 Psych: Shy, avoids almost all human contact
15 Psych: Very protective of "her" animals
178 Experience
(Bagabond created by Leanne C Harper, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Black Eagle
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
BLACK EAGLE
(Earl Sanderson Jr.)
Designers Notes: (this write up is for the 1950's version of Black Eagle)
Black Eagle stands 5'11" and weighs a solid 170 lbs. He's well built,
with dark skin, a mustache and handsome looks. A former WWII fighter
pilot, he flew with the 332nd Fighter Group (the "Lonely Eagles") and had
an unconfirmed 53 kills. After contracting the wildcard virus he gained
the power of flight, as well as the ability to project a telekinetic
battering ram. He normally wears a black leather flier's jacket, a white
scarf, a black flight helmet with goggles, and black boots. Under his
jacket he wears his old US Air Corps uniform with the insignia removed.
He was recruited into the Four Aces, but left the country after HUAC
ripped them apart.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 15 5
Dex 26 48
Con 20 20
Body 15 10
Int 20 10
Ego 20 20
Pre 20 10
Com 18 4
PD 8 5
ED 8 4
Spd 5 14
Rec 8 2
End 40 0
Stun 35 2
Char Total 154
Power Total 365
Total Cost 519
COST POWERS & SKILLS
78 EC: Telekinetic Powers
73 TK: 50 STR, AoE: Cone, Only while flying (-1/4), 1/2 END
82 Force Field: 40 PD/ED, Invisible to Sight (+1/2), 0 END
78 Flight: 60", x4 Noncombat, 1/2 END, (~450 mph)
6 Running: +3" (9" total)
1 Perk: Lawyer's License
7 Combat Pilot 16-
4 KS: Law 15-
1 Oratory 8-
3 PS: Lawyer (INT) 13-
3 PS: Football Player (DEX) 14-
3 PS: Basketball Player (DEX) 14-
3 Tactics 14-
1 TF: Parachute
1 WF Pistol
7 Lang: English (native), French (3), Italian (2), Russian (2)
8 CSL: +4 with Flight
6 CSL: +2 with Block, Dodge, Punch
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Military fatigues, black leather flyer's jacket, beret, white
scarf
15 DF: Black 'superhero' in 40s-50s America
15 Psych: Sense of duty to the black community
5 Psych: Believer in Marxism
10 Psych: Wary of being "used"
(Black Eagle created by Walter Jon Williams, character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:50:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: The Envoy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
THE ENVOY
(David Harstein)
Designers Notes: (this write up is for the 1950's version of The Envoy)
The Envoy is a young man (aged 26), standing 5'9" and weighing 150 lbs.
He has black hair, brown eyes, a wry smile and a handsome face. His power
is the ability to emit pheromones that make people want to agree with
*anything* he says. Note: this is a *very* impressive power! The version
given below is 400 active points! He was recruited into the Four Aces and
had a number of successes, before HUAC sent him to prison for three years
for contempt of court.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 10 0
Dex 10 0
Con 13 6
Body 12 4
Int 20 10
Ego 15 10
Pre 15 5
Com 18 4
PD 3 1
ED 3 0
Spd 3 7
Rec 5 0
End 26 0
Stun 24 0
Char Total 47
Power Total 177
Total Cost 224
COST POWERS & SKILLS
145 20d6 Mind Control, AoE: Radius x2, 20"r (+1 1/4), Telepathic
(+1/4), Invisible
to Mental Sense (+1/2), Single Command: "You Agree" (-1/2), 0 END,
Persistant, Always On (-1/2), Relies on subject's sense of smell
(-1/4), Can be
disrupted by strong winds, fans, air conditioners etc (-1/2)
3 Acting 12-
4 AK: World 14-
6 KS: Chess 16-
4 KS: Poetry 14-
3 Oratory 12-
3 High Society 12-
3 Persuasion 12-
6 SL: +2 with all PRE skills
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 Psych: Feels a sense of duty/responsiblity to humanity as a whole
10 Psych: Likes to play harmless practical jokes with his power
99 Experience
(Envoy created by Geroge R. R. Martin, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: catdrag@pop.vnet.net
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:31:28 -0400
From: "Robert H. Nichols" <catdrag@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bagabond
Cc: Hero system mail list <hero-l@emerald.omg.org&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
/snip/ about Bagabond. BTW, the third book, Bagabond is revealed to have
once been crazy,. But under the influence of Sewer Jack, she has regained
a bit of her sanity, she just behaves crazily.... (I am rereadingthe books
now, she may lose it again later I don't remember...
>25 EC: Animal Control powers, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
>15 Clairisentience: Sight, hearing, smell, x 16 Range (2400" or 3
> Miles), 0 END Must utilize an animal, point of view is controlled
> by animal's actions (-1/2),
> 0 DCV Concentrate (throughout) (-1)
>45 Mind Control: 12d6, Telepathic, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
>35 Mind Scanning: 12d6, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
>35 Telepathy: 12d6, 0 END, 0 DCV Concentrate (-1/2)
>
She can use these powers on humans but she is much less effective. I would
probably write it up as X3 Endurance on humans and perhaps less dice of
effect when dealing with humans.
BTW, I just noticed. Me work adrress is no longer active
(robertni@us.ibm.com). You might want to discontinue that address.) :)
Bobby Nichols
The Cat.Dragon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
catdrag@vnet.net http://users.vnet.net/catdrag/bobby.html
bnichols@ieidesign.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Love doesn't make the world go 'round; love is what makes the ride
worthwhile.
-- Franklin P. Jones
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Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 09:17 AM