Week Ending August 30, 1997
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:15:02 +1000
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Subject: Re: Comic Book World Creation Check list
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At 09:19 PM 8/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Another possibility is that
>> the frequency of paranormals varies from country to country. I often
>> run campaigns where first world countries have a greater frequency of
>
>> paranormals than Second, and Third World. I justify this prejudice
>> by reasoning that persons in the west have greater access to
>technology,
>> and wealth than in the third world, thus more technological based
>> origins happen in the western world.
>
> However, third world areas would get more mutants, due to pollutions
>and
>other factors...
> This would also make rural groups, such as Mexican Migrant farm
>workers in california, have
>very high numbers of mutants. They show this in the real world actually.
>Although real world mutations
>are not so benificial as super ones...
>
>
another concept to address is the idea of a 'power curve'- like that postulated
in several pbem's about. The idea is that mutations arise from how much energy is thrown around the area- the more energy, the more mutants can tap into it. Unfortunately
since mutants actually throww off a lot of power (through hyperspace in my games)
they actually cause the rise of more mutants, who throw off more power. . . . .
the idea is that nukes set off the latest wave of mutation, while magic and visiting stellar heavyweights could be the culprit in earlier ages. Therefore we get a geometric
curve develpoing in areas such as manhattan, with each new generation having more
and more mutants, while the third world could be befret of any- HOWEVER, if there were a
few supers in say, afganistan(evil soviet experiments) then a 'plague' of
super-mutation could spread through populous places like india in a matter of a few
generations.
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:02:00 +1000
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At 02:34 PM 8/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 24 Aug 97 at 15:15, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote:
>>
>> another concept to address is the idea of a 'power curve'- like that
>> postulated in several pbem's about. The idea is that mutations arise
>> from how much energy is thrown around the area- the more energy, the
>> more mutants can tap into it. Unfortunately since mutants actually
>> throww off a lot of power (through hyperspace in my games) they
>> actually cause the rise of more mutants, who throw off more power. .
>> . . . the idea is that nukes set off the latest wave of mutation,
>> while magic and visiting stellar heavyweights could be the culprit
>> in earlier ages. Therefore we get a geometric curve develpoing in
>> areas such as manhattan, with each new generation having more and
>> more mutants, while the third world could be befret of any- HOWEVER,
>> if there were a few supers in say, afganistan(evil soviet
>> experiments) then a 'plague' of super-mutation could spread through
>> populous places like india in a matter of a few generations.
>
>That works well, except that it is positive feedback. Using that
>method, all you need is some supers who stay in one area, and you get
>more and more and more. Eventually, everyone has super powers.
>
everyone in that area.
>This is not necessarily a problem, but you do have to know why
>previous supers didn't do this. You need to either a) create a brake
>of some sort, to explain what stopped the positive feedback loop, or
>b) this has to be the beginning of the first age of supers.
>
the idea is that each new generation has a number of mutants based on how many
powerful beings and power in general are around- one possibility is that this is the most powerful age-
due to tha atom bombs and power generation which takes place in the industrial
age. In earlier ages maybe the effect was limited because only a few powerful individals
(wizards, gods, ect) were around, and probably geographically isolated- one of my games
had the gods hanging out on the moon. Now lets say a bunch of people (incliding mutants)
go live on the moon- in a couple of generations they're all superhuman-
just like the . . erm. . inhumans, wasn't it? black bolt and all them?
or are they eternals? well, the point is the same.
Useing another pbem's concept (golden hawks) lets' say there were supers around in
the classical greek age. Well, firstly i could ague that they were 'set off'
by the greek gods, who then left, causing immense upheaval and battle between the most
powerful supers. Now let's say a few groups of weak mutants survive this war-
like say a few posidon-worshippers with life support and webbed feet- and they make
their way to the ocean floor. . .
This introduces a new concept to my little construct- low power or 'inactive'
mutants, who don't throw of much power, usually because their powers are biological
or other wise efficiant.
With this brake added i can now explain the remainder of previous ages of metahumanity-
but note the current age is unlikely to end so easily- perhaps if a new-tech energy creation process was made, which didn't effect the curve?
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:09:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Give me the News, Please!
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Well, I guess I'm back, and I've really missed this place.
That summer e-mail account never materialized.
So, anyway, what's the news? What were the major hot
debate/argument topics over the summer? What's the lowdown on Hero
Games/Hero Plus? Anyone have a GenCon report? Anyone want my GenCon
report?
-Tim Gilberg
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:42:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Give me the News, Please!
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Since I'm just back from vacation, I don't have news for you (plural),
but tell me what's new, including, Tim, your GenCon report.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:58:41 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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>At 09:35 AM 8/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>In the 1542 Japan game that I'm in, one of the PCs was a farmer while the
>>rest of us were samurai. After a while, the player complained about not
>>having any armor, getting stuck with all the dirty jobs and not having any
>>say in anything. Our response? "Hey, wake up dude! Your playing a
>>character from the bottom third of the social scale, we *don't* have to do
>>anything for you, PC or not!" And if the PC took offense and picked a
>>fight, we were perfectly in our own right (ie abiding by the genre
>>conventions of the game) to cut him down like the mad dog that he was.
>>Needless to say, thay player never did acheive clue and left that game.
>>
>
>
>see, in the real world, martial arts evolved to kick the crud out of uppity
>saamurai like that- in a good game, you would have given the character
>depth- instead of just using the genre as such a cop-out.
Well, I agree and I disagree. The genre does state that he should have been
treated like that, and as long as the players were doing it in character it
would be ok. However, since it doesn't seem that he ever took the clue, it
was more likely because no one ever fully explained it to him. It should
have been around that time of his complaining that someone clued him in so
that HE, not the other players, could give the character more depth. I
agree that the genre should dictate the characters to an extent, but at the
same time I can't stand a "role player" who wants the GM to hand him or her
everything on a silver plate regardless of how they act in the genre. This
genre stated that he was a lowly farmer and thus he should have been treated
as such. It would be odd for the lowly farmer to have a group of samuri
that listen to his every order. If he was complaining he should have talked
it over with the GM and players to see how he could go forward with the
character instead of just bailing on the game. Just my two cents. Later.
Sparx
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:59:42 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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>On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote:
>
>> At 09:35 AM 8/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >In the 1542 Japan game that I'm in, one of the PCs was a farmer while the
>> >rest of us were samurai. After a while, the player complained about not
>> >having any armor, getting stuck with all the dirty jobs and not having any
>> >say in anything. Our response? "Hey, wake up dude! Your playing a
>> >character from the bottom third of the social scale, we *don't* have to do
>> >anything for you, PC or not!" And if the PC took offense and picked a
>> >fight, we were perfectly in our own right (ie abiding by the genre
>> >conventions of the game) to cut him down like the mad dog that he was.
>> >Needless to say, thay player never did acheive clue and left that game.
>>
>> see, in the real world, martial arts evolved to kick the crud out of uppity
>> saamurai like that- in a good game, you would have given the character
>> depth- instead of just using the genre as such a cop-out.
>
>Excuse me? Jones, in the *real world* martial arts developed as a means
>of self defense *and* warfare. And technically, the unarmed fighting
>arts that non-samurai developed to defend themselves from armed and
>belligerent samurai would really take off for another 100 years (when
>the social structure got locked into place by the Tokugawa Shogunate)
>
>We weren't 'uppity', we were trying to play by the established conventions
>of the genre. Ie. as samurai we had certain rights and should attempt to
>behaive in a certain way. I'd also like to point out it is not *my* job
>as PC to give someone else's character depth, nor is it the GM's. The
>GM's job is to present adventures and situations that will allow me (and
>the other players) to role player our characters in accordance to the
>personalities given the characters. Therefore establishing depth. If a
>particular player doesn't do anything of the sort, whose fault is it?
>
>And abiding by genre conventions is not a 'cop-out'. It is doing just
>that, role-playing your character withing the conventions and boundries
>described by the campaign. If I've paid the points for kirisutogomen (the
>right of a samurai to kill anyone of a lower class) and someone (even
>another PC who is playing a farmer) offends my character, then I should
>cut that person down. To *not* do so is delibertly ignoring the whole
>nature of the game. Now, granted, not every samurai is/was that touchy,
>and my PC wouldn't just indiscriminatly hack down people, but at one point
>(after I got sick of the famer player's whining) I did tell the GM, "If he
>keeps this up, I'm gonna kill him."
>
>If the GM states that 'x' is a fact of life in his game, then to ignore
>'x' is a 'cop-out'. Abiding by 'x' is roleplaying.
>
>And prime examples of 'x'?
>
>In a four color game, I'd say it is "Heroes do not Kill"
>
>In a 50's SF game? "All aliens are bug-eyed monsters who want our women"
>
>In a modern horror game? "Any one can die at any time"
>
>In a Dark Champions game? "There are no good guys and no bad guys. There
> are just scum, the cops, and innocent people. And sometimes,
> these groups cross boundies"
>
>In the feudal Japan game? "Ninja are myths, and samurai can get away with
> murder"
>
>Genre conventions are called such because they define the setting (ie, the
>genre).
>
>Thus, in most supers games, *everyone* with superpowers wears a mask,
>looks good in tights and stops aging somewhere between 25 and 35.
>
>In a martial arts game, *everyone* is a martial artist (allow me to repeat
>myself - *everyone*!). If its an anime martial arts game, everyone can
>jump over the horizion too.
>
>If its a Call of Cuthulhu game (or any other horror setting) guns won't
>stop the monster, any one who goes off alone probably won't come back and
>reading that strange book you found is probably bad for you... *very* bad.
>
>I think I should stop now, since I'm obviously beginning to ramble...
>BTW: Does anyone other than Jones have any thoughts on my opinions?
I have thoughts on your opinion. And they are, "I agree with you fully."
So I guess that really isn't much of a thought for you to go with, but it is
refreshing to see other players and GMs out there that share my opinion.
Take it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:00:06 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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>It's the fault of whoever choose "farmer" as his character-
>did he know what he was getting into? honestly?
This is something I have to agree with. If a player doesn't honestly know
what he is getting into, I will usually forwarn him or her. If he or she
still insist on playing the role of the farmer I will always offer them to
step down and switch characters once they relize how it is.
>>If the GM states that 'x' is a fact of life in his game, then to ignore
>>'x' is a 'cop-out'. Abiding by 'x' is roleplaying.
>>
>
>no, useing 'X' to silence a whiner is a cop-out "hey! a real barbarian
>would kill your mage to get his gold!" why if a player says it it's cheating,
>but when it's part of the "genre", it's roleplaying?
I don't know. Would the barbarian kill a mage and take his gold if he knew
that magic was involved later. Magic which the barbarian has no clue about.
Unless we are talking a very stupid or very dense barbarian and usually
they were good with tactics, even common sense would say, if I'm going to be
fighting magic, it would be good to have magic.
>>In a modern horror game? "Any one can die at any time"
>>
>
>anyone can get killed by the GM at any time-
True, but it doesn't happen as often in some genres than others. Some game
mechanics make it even impossible to kill people versus other mechanics.
These are usually based on the genre of the game.
>>In the feudal Japan game? "Ninja are myths, and samurai can get away with
>> murder"
>>
>
>the problem is some of these are "facts", some are simply what the PC's ect
believe-
>i really think the two should be kinda put in different categories. . .
Actually, in the RPG world, with the PCs and moreso what the GM believe is
FACT. Let's make this simple, the sky is blue (don't argue it), but if the
GM says it is red in his world then it is a FACT that it is red. Done and
over with. You really can't sit there and argue it. If it is a FACT that
ninjas are myth in a game, that is the FACT, having a player that says he is
a ninja upsets the game and the genre.
Take it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Give me the News, Please!
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
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> Well, I guess I'm back, and I've really missed this place.
>
> That summer e-mail account never materialized.
>
> So, anyway, what's the news? What were the major hot
> debate/argument topics over the summer? What's the lowdown on Hero
> Games/Hero Plus? Anyone have a GenCon report? Anyone want my GenCon
> report?
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
Well, I guess the biggest news around here is that TSR bought Hero Games,
and they plan on releasing Champs 5th ed. which will change the game over
to a class based system. The powers that each character gets will be
completely dependent on class, and the BODY and STUN characteristics will
be replaced by "hit points", which will grow exponentially as you increase
"levels". It was just announced that Gary Gygax is rejoining TSR in
order to write this game. A number of supplements, including a Monstrous
Manual and Players Guide to Bricks, are already in the works.
...
Just kidding!!! :-)
-Eric
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:11:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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In a message dated 97-08-25 18:52:45 EDT, psansone@i1.net writes:
> Actually, in the RPG world, with the PCs and moreso what the GM believe is
> FACT. Let's make this simple, the sky is blue (don't argue it), but if
the
> GM says it is red in his world then it is a FACT that it is red. Done and
> over with. You really can't sit there and argue it. If it is a FACT that
> ninjas are myth in a game, that is the FACT, having a player that says he
is
> a ninja upsets the game and the genre.
This raises the $64 question: If it is a FACT that ninjas are a myth in a
game 'cause the GM says so, and then the GM has the PC samurai encounter NPC
ninjas...do the players then have kirisutogomen against the GM?
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:25:36 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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>In a message dated 97-08-25 18:52:45 EDT, psansone@i1.net writes:
>
>> Actually, in the RPG world, with the PCs and moreso what the GM believe is
>> FACT. Let's make this simple, the sky is blue (don't argue it), but if
>the
>> GM says it is red in his world then it is a FACT that it is red. Done and
>
>> over with. You really can't sit there and argue it. If it is a FACT that
>
>> ninjas are myth in a game, that is the FACT, having a player that says he
>is
>> a ninja upsets the game and the genre.
>
>This raises the $64 question: If it is a FACT that ninjas are a myth in a
>game 'cause the GM says so, and then the GM has the PC samurai encounter NPC
>ninjas...do the players then have kirisutogomen against the GM?
Ok, I'm going to be the first to admit that I don't know what kirisutogomen
is, but if it is a GM Fact that ninjas are a myth then the players come
across a band of them they have discovered the myth is not true. The GM can
change his world or have false myths as facts, but if the player is too
believe it is myth, then that is how the game should be ran, no one should
start with a ninja or with common knowledge about ninjas. At the most, I
would allow KS: Myth: Ninjas and make sure that some of the stuff the PC
knows is myth and some is true. Take it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:43:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Sparx wrote:
> >This raises the $64 question: If it is a FACT that ninjas are a myth in a
> >game 'cause the GM says so, and then the GM has the PC samurai encounter NPC
> >ninjas...do the players then have kirisutogomen against the GM?
>
> Ok, I'm going to be the first to admit that I don't know what kirisutogomen
> is,
It is the right of a samurai to kill those of the 'lower classes'. If a
samurai thought someone of a lower class (like a farmer or merchant or
tradesman) wasn't giving him respect or had insulted him, he could kill
that man with a minimum of fuss. Note: ninja and geisha don't even fit on
the class scale and can get killed with no trouble.
> but if it is a GM Fact that ninjas are a myth then the players come
> across a band of them they have discovered the myth is not true. The GM can
> change his world or have false myths as facts, but if the player is too
> believe it is myth, then that is how the game should be ran, no one should
> start with a ninja or with common knowledge about ninjas. At the most, I
> would allow KS: Myth: Ninjas and make sure that some of the stuff the PC
> knows is myth and some is true. Take it easy and talk at you later.
In my opinion, if one is runnig a feudal Japan game and the GM states:
'Ninja are a myth' there should be a sly wink tacked in there. Sure, all
the PCs should start out believing that ninja don't really exist, but if
the GM presents a situcation that show otherwise, it is up to the players
to decide how thier characters react.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:06:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Genre Selection
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> This raises the $64 question: If it is a FACT that ninjas are a myth in a
> game 'cause the GM says so, and then the GM has the PC samurai encounter NPC
> ninjas...do the players then have kirisutogomen against the GM?
I don't see why not. Unless, of course, they are depending on the
GM paying for the pizza.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:55:54 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Hi friends
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 07:31 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I am trying out a new email program that has added color and other font
options, please let me know if you see the following.
>
>This is red
>
>This is bold
>
>This is in italics
a)It doesn't work. It never works. It's wasteful, bloated, and stupid. And
there's no reason for you not to have known this.
b)If you continue to use that mailer, you get in my killfile.
c)Have a nice day.
d)By the way, you don't know how to format a to: header, either.
MAIL IS FOR TEXT. THE WEB IS FOR GRAPHICS. DON'T CONFUSE THEM AGAIN.
No, I will not apologize for being rude.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:47:48 +0000
Subject: The GM's Corner - Pointers
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
CC: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com&> francisb@toronto.planeteer.com
Priority: normal
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I compiled a list of pointer for GMs, and I was wondering if anyone
had any pointers they'd be willing to share with the rest of us.
Below is a list of pointers:
1. Make it Personal:
An adventure catches the attention, and interest of players much
more quickly if the stakes are personal. If the player(s) are going
to lose, or gain something they value their concern will become real.
Some might mistakenly think that it should be what the character
values, but it's the players' interest you must capture. Your players
are the heart, mind, and soul of your story's heroes.
2. Add some variety, but make sure it isn't to much.
Variety may be the spice of life, but remember to much spice can
ruin a meal. Providing a variety of encounters, obstacles, and characters
is one of the simplist steps you can take to keep your campaign from
going stale. Although variety is important you must remember that
your campaign is a continuing story, and as such requires a sense of
continuity. A good compromise is to provide variety in the details of
your story, and in only a couple of the major story elements.
3. Establish Mood, and Atmosphere:
This is something that is often ignored, or overlooked in roleplaying
adventures. Every scenario should have a least one scene where the
mood of the story is established. One of the best ways to establish
mood is to use a description of a person, place, or thing. A defining
scene can also go a long way to set the mood of a story.
4. Be Prepared:
This may be the motto of the boy scouts, but it is also good advice
for a gamemaster. Only a few Gamemasters have that rare talent to
create a decent adventure on the fly. Working out a general story
line, and creating the characters that will populate your story can
only improve your adventures. Having all the maps, character sheets, and
forms available during play will help ease the burden on the
Gamemaster. Any preparations will free the Gamemaster during the
game allow him to deal with the players.
5. Provide Players with Opportunity:
It is up to the Gamemaster to provide the opportunities for players
to roleplay. The skills, powers, disadvantages, and background of
every player character should be exploited during the course of a
campaign. The Gamemaster must use, or provide an opportunity for the
player to excercise their roleplaying skills. Every player should get
their turn in the spot-light.
6. Stick with what works:
If you've found something that works, try to introduce that element in
other stories. Don't feel compelled to discard elements that works
simply because they've been used before. Adding a new twist to an old
story element will keep it vital. If a particular scenario was a
successful try to identify those elements that made it a success, and
incorporate them into new stories.
7. Establish the ground rules up front:
A Gamemaster should make an effort to explain what is expected of
their players. The beginning of a campaign, or adventure is the ideal
moment to present your expectations. Any potential problems are best
covered in the beginning, or at the moment they appear.
8. Remember, a story is finished until it's been played:
A roleplaying adventure is a work in progress. The adventure isn't
complete until it has been played. Playing the adventure is more
important than all the preparations you've made. Playing out the
adventure is the moment you've been working for. The Gamemaster is
now responsible for pacing the adventure, acting the part of all
characters except those of the players, and dealing with unexpected
turns of event.
9. A Gamemaster should like his players, and their characters:
If you don't like a player, or a character they shouldn't be in your
campaign. The often forgotten job of the player is to entertain the
gamemaster, and the other players. Dealing with players is much more
difficult than their characters. A technique I've found useful is to
get good characters is to require players to submit three different
character concepts for a role in the campaign. The Gamemaster can
than choose the character that he most likes, and best fits his campaign.
10. Remember, roleplaying is a cooperative effort:
A good game requires the sincere effort of all involved parties. It
really is impossible for a Good GM, to have his best game with bad
players. A good game is dependent on all it's participants. I find it
useful to inform players of my belief that roleplaying is at its heart
a cooperative game.
11. Establish a Campaign Theme, and Direction from the beginning:
An established campaign theme, and direction will allow players
to get into, and appreciate the stage you've created for them. The
campaign theme will help establish the mood of your campaign. It is
important that the GM live up to the campaign theme, and mood. The
campaign theme, and mood needs to be reinforced during each scenario.
12. Lay a strong foundation for your campaign:
A good concept, and background are the necessary foundation for a good
campaign. The players, and the GM should be happy with the campaign
theme, mood, situation, and background. Building the appropriate
foundation for campaign will establish the success of your campaign
from the beginning.
Well that concludes my list of Gamemaster pointers. Should anyone
care to comment, or make additions to this list I'd be more than
happy to hear from them.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:15:26 +0000
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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On 26 Aug 97 at 22:59, J. A. Holmes wrote:
>
> The other does affect the character, he should probably (i know it's
> expensive) have normal characteristic disad, so that the age
> disadvantage can be applied. In specific, when he fought the dragon
> it was made very clear that the only reason it was a chore (and he
> lost) is that he was quite old and had lost a good part of his
> youthful strength.
>
I must disagree. There is no reason why any character without LS:
Does not age should not get weaker as they get older. If it wasn't
for the fact that superheroes never seem to age, I would generally
assume that The Thing, Spiderman, or even the Hulk would get weaker
when they get older.
The Age disadvantage is not necessary to simulate aging. If you run a
campaign where it ever matters, simply declare it as a fact.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:37:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Hi friends
Reply-to: guyhoyle@iname.com
Priority: normal
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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> At 07:31 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >I am trying out a new email program that has added color and other font
> options, please let me know if you see the following.
> >
> >This is red
> >
> >This is bold
> >
> >This is in italics
>
> a)It doesn't work. It never works. It's wasteful, bloated, and stupid. And
> there's no reason for you not to have known this.
> b)If you continue to use that mailer, you get in my killfile.
> c)Have a nice day.
> d)By the way, you don't know how to format a to: header, either.
>
> MAIL IS FOR TEXT. THE WEB IS FOR GRAPHICS. DON'T CONFUSE THEM AGAIN.
>
> No, I will not apologize for being rude.
This is unreasonably harsh. Obviously, this user has little
experience with email, but this kind of a response wasn't warranted.
If he hadn't advertised that he was using a graphic emailer, I would
never have known he was using one; it was a failed experiment on his
part, but caused me no problems; I suspect that most people had no
problems either. If Lizard did, then obviously I'm mistaken; but I
think that flaming newbies is like shooting orcs in a barrel.
Graphic emailers generally only work with other graphic emailers,
which are not very common. If yours does, that's great, but be aware
that most other emailers won't see 'em.
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:31:14 +0000
Subject: Empires and Armies
Reply-to: guyhoyle@iname.com
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X-UID: 37
I just had an idea that I thought was pretty cool for a fantasy game
of some type. In concept, it's pretty simple: instead of
individuals, the players play countries. They create armies and
cities (followers and bases, I guess). It seems to me as if you
could use the Hero System pretty much as is, with judicious
choice of combat rules. Characters wouldn't be individuals, they'd
be armies composed of lots of individuals. You could have armies of
priests and sorcerors and monsters, too. I can even see divine
intervention of a kind, as well, maybe a war of the gods with humans
caught up in the struggle.
This is a very hasty summary of an idea I had when I was half asleep;
if it doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I wanted to post it for
feedback. Let me know if you have any comments, please!
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:29:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Beowulf
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"A thane of Hygelac, a good man among the Geats, heard in his homeland of
Grendel's deeds: of mankind he was strongest of might in the time of this
life, noble and great." Beowulf -translated by E. Talbot Donaldson.
BEOWULF
Designers Notes:
Beowulf is the central figure of the epic poem "Beowulf". Written over
1200 years ago, it is the oldest poem written in English (actually Old
English) that exists today. The poem concerns itself with a series of
events that occur (presumably) in the mid to late 500s.
Beowulf is a Geat, a Germanic race native to southern Sweden. A great
warrior and noted hero, he journeys south to aid the Danish king Hrothgar
in his battle vs the foul monster Grendel. He slays the monster in a
fierce wrestling match; later killing Grendel's mother when she tries to
get revenge for the death of her son. Beowulf goes on to become king of
the Geats, finally dying in battle vs a fire-breathing dragon (although he
does slay the dragon as well).
For my adaption of Beowulf, I used two translations of the poem. One was
by David Wright, the other by E. Talbot Donaldson. The former is written
in a much more 'modern' prose style, while the latter does a much nicer
job of capturing the poems alliterative style.
Description:
Beowulf is never actually described physically. He is noted to be strong,
a mighty warrior, and his heroic appearance and bearing definitely make
him stand out when amid others.
Powers Notes:
Beowulf's main ability is his strength. He is said to have the strength
of 30 men in his hand grip (which is how I got a 35 STR. If one man can
lift 100 kg, then 30 x 100 = 3,000 kg). His great strength allows to slay
and subdue giants, fight with great sea-going beasts and successfully
wrestle with Grendel.
In the course of fighting with Grendel, Beowulf eventaully wrenches
Grendel's arm out of it's socket and tears the entire limbs from Grendel's
body. I bought this is a Penetrating HKA, representing Beowulf's ability
to slowly tear apart anything he can get his hands upon.
At one point inthe story, Beowulf describes at great length his ablity to
swim (he once spent 5 days out in the oceans), as well as his prowess vs
water monsters. He also seems to be quite capable of spending enormus
lengths of time underwater (it takes him the better part of a day to get
to the bottom of Grendel's mother's pool, he spends an entire night under
the ocean fighting with sea serpents).
Although Beowulf wrestles Grendel barehanded and without armor, he does
normally carry weapons. Usually, he is described as wearing a simple
open-faced helm, a shirt of mail and carrying a sword and a roundshield.
Disadvantages Notes:
Beowulf is a hero, which greatly defines his actions. He must act in a
courageous manner, boasting of his great deeds and of the things he is
going to accomplish. He cannot shirk from actions that are dangerous, or
allow a challenge to go unanswered. He known to be a great hero, a
powerful warrior and he must live up to these expectations. Naturally,
this mind set does cause him to perform acts that people might call
foolish. He removes his mail shirt before fighting Grendel, vowing to
fight him barehanded since Grendel does not carry a weapon. He plunges
into the pool that holds Grendal's mother alone, pausing only to detail to
his men what to do if he should be killed. He fights a dragon single
handedly.
Beowulf also lives by the Germanic code that one cannot allow the death of
a close companion or liege to go unanswered. Unlike most heroes of these
sorts of tales, he doesn't get embroiled in the circular bloodfeuds that
are a staple of most sagas, instead confronting larger supernatural
threats.
A final note on Beowulf's unluck. Several times in the poem, Beowulf's
weapons fail him in his time of need. His sword will not cut Grendel's
mother, he breaks his sword on the dragon's hide, etc.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 21 22
Body 15 10
Int 18 8
Ego 20 20
Pre 23 13
Com 16 3
PD 8 1
ED 7 3
Spd 4 12
Rec 11 0
End 42 0
Stun 44 0
Char Total 141
Power Total 129
Total Cost 270
COST POWERS & SKILLS
MA: Wrestling
4 Crush +0 OCV +0 DCV 11d6 Crush, must follow grab
4 Escape +0 OCV +0 DCV 50 STR vs Grab
3 Hold -1 OCV -1 DCV Grab two limbs; 45 STR to hold on
3 Slam +0 OCV +1 DCV 7d6 +v/5; Target falls
22 HKA: 1d6 (2d6 w/ STR) , Penetrating, Must follow grab (-1/4)
5 Life Support: Can Breathe Underwater
2 Running: +1" (total 7")
3 Swimming: +3" (total 6")
15 Luck: 3d6
2 AK: Geatish and Danish Lands 11-
2 AK: Scandinavian Oceans 11-
3 Climbing 13-
2 KS: Warriors of note 11-
7 Navigation 13-
3 Oratory 14-
2 PS: Warrior 11-
3 Riding 13-
7 Survival 13-
3 Tactics 13-
3 Tracking 13-
1 TF: Water Craft
5 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missle Weapons, Shield
5 Perk: Chief of the Geats
20 CSL: +4 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Noble bearing
10 Psych: Code of Vengance (com, mod)
20 Psych: Courageous (vcom, strong)
20 Psych: Overconfidence (vcom, strong)
15 Rep: Beowulf - a great hero and warrior 14-
5 Unluck: 1d6
90 Hero of the Geats bonus
(Beowulf created by an unknown English poet, character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:33:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Grendel
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"The grim demon was called Grendel, a notorious ranger of the borderlands,
who inhabited the fastness of moors and fens"
Beowulf - translated by David Wright
GRENDEL
Designers Notes:
Grendel is one of the three great monsters fought by the Geatish hero
Beowulf in the epic poem "Beowulf". Written over 1200 years ago, it is
the oldest poem written in English (actually Old English) that exists
today. The poem concerns itself with a series of events that occur
(presumably) in the mid to late 500s.
Grendel himself is the first and most famous of the three creatures
featured in the poem (the other two are Grendel's mother and a
fire-breathing dragon). Described as a descendent of Cain (the first
murderer), Grendel is a physical embodiment of evil, a terrifying monster
who exists only to kill and ravage mankind. Making his home in a desolate
moor, Grendel stalks the fens and marshes, killing all he catches, until
his misdeeds bring the attentions of Beowulf.
For my adaption of Grendel, I used two translations of the poem. One was
by David Wright, the other by E. Talbot Donaldson. The former is written
in a much more 'modern' prose style, while the latter does a much nicer
job of capturing the poems alliterative style.
Description:
[King] Hrothgar spoke... "I have heard landsmen, my people,
hall-counslers, say this, that they have seen two such huge walkers in the
wasteland holding to the moors, alien spirits. ... The other wretched
shape trod the tracks of exile in the form of a man, except he was bigger
than any other man." Beowulf -translated by E. Talbot Donaldson.
The poem never actually describes Grendel to any degree. About the only
real idea we have of what he looks like is the passage quoted above. It
is obvious from the poem that Grendel is a huge man-like shape with eyes
that burn in the darkness. Other details are left to one's imagination.
It should be noted that at one point the poem states that four men are
required to carry Grendel's head upon a framework of spears.
Powers Notes:
Grendel's powers are very basic - he is huge and *very* strong. The poem
speaks of him shattering iron bound doors "with a touch"; of reducing a
man to a bloody pulp in a matter of moments, devouring him totally, right
down to his hands and feet. Grendel's extra dice of HKA (Must follow
Grab) is designed to represent this ability. In his first raid on Heorot,
Grendel killed 30 men. He ate 15 of them right there in the hall and
dragged the other 15 back with him to his lair. As his lair is under a
lake, it seemed proper to give him a few inches of Swimming and the proper
level of Life Support. Even if he doesn't actually breathe underwater, it
is likely that he can hold his breath long enough that it doesn't really
matter.
Grendel's most potent power is a spell he has cast upon all edged weapons.
This spell renders all edged weapons useless against him. Axes, swords,
daggers etc, anything with an edge will just bounce of off his hide, doing
no damage. Depending on the nature of your campaign, the exact details of
this power may need to be altered, but I figured 20 DEF armor would make
Grendel pretty immune.
Disadvantages Notes:
Grendel's disads are simple. He is a huge humanoid of presumably horrific
visage. He preys on the hall of Heorot for 12 years and becomes pretty
well known as the bane of King Hrothgar. The only major point to remember
about Grendel is that he is _evil_. He is described as a "fiend", a
"fierce spirit", a "grim spirit", a "creature of evil", "the enemy of
mankind" and so on. As a cursed descendent of Cain, he seems to be unable
to abide the light of day, only coming out at night.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 40 15
Dex 15 15
Con 23 26
Body 14 2
Int 8 -2
Ego 10 0
Pre 25 15
Com 2 -4
PD 10 5
ED 8 3
Spd 3 5
Rec 10 0
End 46 0
Stun 40 1
Char Total 81
Power Total 194
Total Cost 275
COST POWERS & SKILLS
20 Growth: 3 Levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always On,
4 m tall, 2 m wide, 800 kg
+15 STR, +3 BODY & STUN, +1" Reach, -3" KB, +2 PER, -2 DCV
37 HKA: 1 1/2d6, 0 END (claws)
20 HKA: + 1 1/2d6, Must follow Grab (-1/4) (rending)
9 Armor: 3 DEF
17 Armor: +17 PD, Only vs Edged Weapons (-1/2)
40 Damage Reduction: 3/4, Phys, Resistant,
Only vs Edged Weapons (-1/2)
8 Life Support: Breathe Underwater, Immune to Aging
6 Running: +3" (9" total)
2 Swimming: +2" (4" total)
9 Enhanced Perception: +3 with Hearing
5 Climbing 13-
7 Stealth 14-
7 Survival 13-
7 Tracking 13-
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
8 CSL: +4 with Grab
Disadvantages
100 Base
25 DF: Huge misshapen monster
15 Phys: Cannot stand the light of day (inf, fully)
20 Psych: Casual killer, enjoys feasting on men
15 Psych: Hatred of mankind; of mirth, merriment and life
15 Rep: Haunter of Heorot (ext) 11-
85 Bane of Heorot Bonus
(Grendel created by an unknown English poet, character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:59:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "J. A. Holmes" <starfyr@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero system mail list <hero-l@emerald.omg.org&>
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
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I'm afraid I have to nit pick this one,
The first problem doesn't affect the character, and may well be a
translation problem, but I always found it notable that Beowulf's
dragon wasn't fire breathing, it spewed posinous vapour and caustic
venom, as I recall in th eend what killed bewulf wasn't even that but
the terrible poison of th ecreatures blood that washed over him when
he finally kiled it.
The other does affect the character, he should probably (i know it's
expensive) have normal characteristic disad, so that the age
disadvantage can be applied. In specific, when he fought the dragon it
was made very clear that the only reason it was a chore (and he lost)
is that he was quite old and had lost a good part of his youthful
strength.
____________________________________________________________________
Somewhere in a lonely hotel room a man begins to realize that
eternal fate has turned her back on him ...
<http://www.access.digex.net/~starfyr/index.html>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:07:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero system mail list <hero-l@emerald.omg.org&>
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
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On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, J. A. Holmes wrote:
>
> I'm afraid I have to nit pick this one,
> The first problem doesn't affect the character, and may well be a
> translation problem, but I always found it notable that Beowulf's
> dragon wasn't fire breathing, it spewed posinous vapour and caustic
> venom, as I recall in th eend what killed bewulf wasn't even that but
> the terrible poison of th ecreatures blood that washed over him when
> he finally kiled it.
Both of the translations I used describe the dragon as breathing fire.
Beowulf dies from being bitten in the shoulder and from having the
dragon's posion in his body. At least, this is what is written in the
versions I was reading.
> The other does affect the character, he should probably (i know it's
> expensive) have normal characteristic disad, so that the age
> disadvantage can be applied. In specific, when he fought the dragon it
> was made very clear that the only reason it was a chore (and he lost)
> is that he was quite old and had lost a good part of his youthful
> strength.
Well, that's a GM's call. One could say that in his prime, Beowulf
prowess was such that he exceeded the limitations of NCM. I would agree
that by the time he fights the dragon he is older and weaker and could
have gained NCM and Age as disads. OTOH, I'd have to state that regardles
of his actual age, he should be given the 40 year old Age disad.
This is the same as with my Conan writeup. In his prime he is superhuman
in his physical prowess, and is still going strong at age 60 or so. He
eventually gains NCM as a disad and ages, but it doesn't affect him to
that great of a degree.
Actually, if I ever get around to writing up Appleseed's Deunan Knute,
she's going to be a 23 DEX, 5 Speed 100 point base character with no NCM.
The whole idea is that she exists in a world of 75 point base 'normals'
and thus her physical abilites are really superior.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:58:19 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Hi friends
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At 10:37 PM 8/26/97 +0000, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>Graphic emailers generally only work with other graphic emailers,
>which are not very common. If yours does, that's great, but be aware
>that most other emailers won't see 'em.
>
Graphic emailers include large amounts of mime-encoded garbage, usually
many times the length of the text being posted. My mailbox is quite full
enough, thank you -- I don't need to have UUCODED, MIMED, etced,
attachments on every two line message.
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:41:44 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Empires and Armies
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At 11:31 PM 8/26/97 +0000, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>I just had an idea that I thought was pretty cool for a fantasy game
>of some type. In concept, it's pretty simple: instead of
>individuals, the players play countries.
<deletia>
>
You might wish to examine 'Aria', by Last Unicorn Games. If you can get
through the somewhat dense verbiage (makes White Wolf seem striaghtforward
and clear), there's a LOT of good ideas there about 'interactive history'
in gaming, which is exactly what you are discussing. Another possible
source of ideas, though I've never seen it personally, is TSR's
"Birthright" game.
What can be a lot of fun is letting the players 'play countries' until you
like the world...then tell them, OK, create characters born into this
world. Thus, the players become a lot more involved in the history and
structure of the world...when their characters find the remnants of a
burned out city, the players remember running the war which destroyed said
city.
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:52:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Hi friends
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Naturally, your fancy program won't work with my plain old Juno. Hope it
works for others.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:32:21 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: [OFF TOPIC]My last word on 'Hi Friends'.
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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(Note:This was orginally going to be private email. After much thought, I
decided, with some reluctance, to cc: it to the list. I want people to
understand just *why* 'formatted' email is a bad thing, by spelling out the
numbers. I humbly request replies, criticisms, and the inevitable flames by
directed off-list)
The following is the entire, complete unedited text of the original "Hi
Friends" message.
========
I am trying out a new email program that has added color and other font
options, please let me know if you see the following.
This is red
This is bold
This is in italics
Thanks,
Patrick
=========
About, what, 150 characters?
It also created an EIGHT K attachment file, which ended up buried in the
recesses of my hard drive. That's something on the order of FIFTY FOUR
times the size of the actual text data of the message.
I think using a format which bloats the size of a message by FIFTY FOUR
TIMES merits a bit of a hard line, don't you? My Hero inbox is now about 1
megabyte in size. That's cool. I don't want it to be 54 megabytes and
contain the same amount of data.
Now, perhaps the 8K is simply header info, and the ratio doesn't remain
constant. Still, it means that EVERY MESSAGE using this mailer is going to
be a *minimum* of 8K in size -- when most messages contain a lot less than
a K of text. That means, AT BEST, it will take eight times as long to
download each message. It's a total, complete, and utter waste of bandwidth
and disk space. I get 300 messages a day, people -- I don't want to
download an 8K header with each one, because someone decided that *this*
wasn't good enough for italics and THIS wasn't good enough for bold.
Now, perhaps, a lot of mailers toss away all that garbage, instead of
saving it, as Eudora does. Irrelevant -- Eudora doesn't 'make stuff up',
so, even if your mailer doesn't write it to disk, the data was still
transmitted, still stored at your host, etc. The bandwidth waste is there,
and real.
Like they say on those stupid Nike commercials -- Do The Math.
The only reason "formatted" email exists is because email is a mature
product category -- things like Eudora and Pegasus already have 99% of the
functionality needed. So to 'compete', companies invent useless
'bells&whistles' like formatting, and, since they are in competition, they
don't have agreed-on standards, so everyone but people using the same
mailer gets pages of @%$@#$@. (And, as I said, even if they see bold or
italic or whatever, they're still bloating the file sizes ridiculously, for
a very minimal gain in utility.)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:57:10 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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>Actually, if I ever get around to writing up Appleseed's Deunan Knute,
>she's going to be a 23 DEX, 5 Speed 100 point base character with no NCM.
>The whole idea is that she exists in a world of 75 point base 'normals'
>and thus her physical abilites are really superior.
I think that would be way overboard. Deunan would rate a DEX in the 18-20
range, sure, with SPD 4, but she _is_ a normal human. And I'll point out
that she wasn't the 'best' in the series, though she was near optimum human
performance. At 18-20 DEX, she's in the world class gymnast/martial artist
range, which is plenty.
I'll point out that Deunan often wins as a result of superior tactics and
training more than anything else. In the Benandanti training, she takes on
the opposing force mostly one or two at a time, setting up booby traps or
using superior stealth/tactics. In the grand melee in book 4, she was the
only one armed with a firearm, she had grenades, a superior position from
above (firing down) and eliminated all but a handful of opponants before she
ran out of bullets. Then she had a longer weapon, luck, and was facing
opponants of much less skill (DEX 14-15, SPD 3, with far fewer skill levels
- good mercinaries, but not heroic class opponants). Though Sudo (?) notes
that she's lucky that she wasn't facing anybody really skilled, or she
would've gotten creamed (like she almost did in the Databook). I'd give
Deunan plenty of Luck, though. But there's no reason to dip into the
superhuman for Deunan's stats.
You want superhuman, write-up Artemis Alpea. Or any of the borgs in Appleseed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
-John comments on Feng Shui
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:19:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >Actually, if I ever get around to writing up Appleseed's Deunan Knute,
> >she's going to be a 23 DEX, 5 Speed 100 point base character with no NCM.
> >The whole idea is that she exists in a world of 75 point base 'normals'
> >and thus her physical abilites are really superior.
>
> I think that would be way overboard. Deunan would rate a DEX in the 18-20
> range, sure, with SPD 4, but she _is_ a normal human. And I'll point out
> that she wasn't the 'best' in the series, though she was near optimum human
> performance. At 18-20 DEX, she's in the world class gymnast/martial artist
> range, which is plenty.
Yeah, but Shirow does make the statement about her agility and speed being
virtually unequaled. (I think it is in the databook somewhere.) Granted
I don't have any of my books handy and can't quote page numbers, but I do
remember him stating that somewhere.
I think such numbers really boil down to preception. If I feel that most
of the 'grunts' in Appleseed (or any comic) have a DEX & SPD of 'x', then
a 'named' character should 'x' + a resonable amount. So if grunts and
other competant troops are DEX 15, SPD 3, then the character should be DEX
20, SPD 4.
Based on Denunan fight in the collapsed building where she fought off
something like 4 guys aremed with only a long knife, I felt her stats
exceeded the normal human range to a slight degree.
There is also the point that having NCM doesn't restrict one to a DEX of
20 and a SPD of 4, it just makes it damn expensive to have anything
higher.
> I'll point out that Deunan often wins as a result of superior tactics and
> training more than anything else. In the Benandanti training, she takes on
> the opposing force mostly one or two at a time, setting up booby traps or
> using superior stealth/tactics. In the grand melee in book 4, she was the
> only one armed with a firearm, she had grenades, a superior position from
> above (firing down) and eliminated all but a handful of opponants before she
> ran out of bullets. Then she had a longer weapon, luck, and was facing
> opponants of much less skill (DEX 14-15, SPD 3, with far fewer skill levels
> - good mercinaries, but not heroic class opponants). Though Sudo (?) notes
> that she's lucky that she wasn't facing anybody really skilled, or she
> would've gotten creamed (like she almost did in the Databook). I'd give
> Deunan plenty of Luck, though. But there's no reason to dip into the
> superhuman for Deunan's stats.
I think we are going to have to agree that we disagree here. I'm just not
going to make a big stink about it. Besides, I haven't sat down to make
note yet either. I'll scope out your examples and make my decision then
(this, of course, presumes I get off my butt and start writing soon).
> You want superhuman, write-up Artemis Alpea. Or any of the borgs in
> Appleseed.
There is a thought.
Just how *strong* is Briareos anyway? And Artemis... DEX what? 23 to 26?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
> -John comments on Feng Shui
Heh, truer words were never spoke!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
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X-UID: 48
Just out of curiosity John, did you think the stats for Beowulf and
Grendel way out of line?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:21:52 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
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>Just out of curiosity John, did you think the stats for Beowulf and
>Grendel way out of line?
No, but then I never bothered to sit down and read through Boewulf. Sounds
reasonable for what he does. Beowulf _was_ superhuman. You don't go tearing
off limbs as a normal person.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
-John comments on Feng Shui
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:21:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beowulf
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 59
>> >Actually, if I ever get around to writing up Appleseed's Deunan Knute,
>> >she's going to be a 23 DEX, 5 Speed 100 point base character with no NCM.
>> I think that would be way overboard. Deunan would rate a DEX in the 18-20
>> range, sure, with SPD 4, but she _is_ a normal human. And I'll point out
>> that she wasn't the 'best' in the series, though she was near optimum human
>> performance. At 18-20 DEX, she's in the world class gymnast/martial artist
>> range, which is plenty.
>
>Yeah, but Shirow does make the statement about her agility and speed being
>virtually unequaled. (I think it is in the databook somewhere.) Granted
>I don't have any of my books handy and can't quote page numbers, but I do
>remember him stating that somewhere.
>
>I think such numbers really boil down to preception. If I feel that most
>of the 'grunts' in Appleseed (or any comic) have a DEX & SPD of 'x', then
>a 'named' character should 'x' + a resonable amount. So if grunts and
>other competant troops are DEX 15, SPD 3, then the character should be DEX
>20, SPD 4.
Maybe, but I'd put the majority of SWAT/ESWAT in the DEX 15/3 SPD range -
and Deunan's opponants in Book 4 were below this standard - probably DEX 13
SPD 3. Good merc troops, sure, but not elites by any stretch.
>Based on Denunan fight in the collapsed building where she fought off
>something like 4 guys aremed with only a long knife, I felt her stats
>exceeded the normal human range to a slight degree.
They probably weren't trained to fight as a group against a single opponant.
The thing that made Deunan so good is that she's trained out the wazoo - can
fight single opponants, multiples, etc. Plus none of them were hand to hand
specialists.
>There is also the point that having NCM doesn't restrict one to a DEX of
>20 and a SPD of 4, it just makes it damn expensive to have anything
>higher.
True.
>> Deunan plenty of Luck, though. But there's no reason to dip into the
>> superhuman for Deunan's stats.
>I think we are going to have to agree that we disagree here. I'm just not
>going to make a big stink about it. Besides, I haven't sat down to make
>note yet either. I'll scope out your examples and make my decision then
>(this, of course, presumes I get off my butt and start writing soon).
>
>> You want superhuman, write-up Artemis Alpea. Or any of the borgs in
>> Appleseed.
>
>There is a thought.
>
>Just how *strong* is Briareos anyway? And Artemis... DEX what? 23 to 26?
Bri ripped the (damaged) access hatch off Deunan's Guges without too much
strain, and was handing around Hitomi in her small landmate pretty easy. He
swings around a cannon Deunan can't even _lift_ pretty much one-handed. I'd
be surprised if he didn't run near 35 STR.
Artemis herself is probably damn near 30 STR. As for her DEX, 26 isn't out
of line, IMHO. She does cartwheels off of a moving vehicle after reaching
into them and ripping the gun holster right off of Brontes. Just look at the
forest scene in Book 3, where she's bouncing around up and down in a forest
without using her hands...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
-John comments on Feng Shui
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Empires and Armies
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 11:31 PM 8/26/97 +0000, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>I just had an idea that I thought was pretty cool for a fantasy game
>of some type. In concept, it's pretty simple: instead of
>individuals, the players play countries. They create armies and
>cities (followers and bases, I guess). It seems to me as if you
>could use the Hero System pretty much as is, with judicious
>choice of combat rules. Characters wouldn't be individuals, they'd
>be armies composed of lots of individuals. You could have armies of
>priests and sorcerors and monsters, too. I can even see divine
>intervention of a kind, as well, maybe a war of the gods with humans
>caught up in the struggle.
>
>This is a very hasty summary of an idea I had when I was half asleep;
>if it doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I wanted to post it for
>feedback. Let me know if you have any comments, please!
Actually, some time ago I had the idea of running a space exploration and
battle type of game (like a certain chit-based game I once played in but
whose name escapes me at the moment) using the Hero System as a standard.
Each player would devise an alien race, all of the military personnel, all
of the ship designs, etc., with a certain number of points as the central basis.
I think what you're talking about here is similar. If you agree, and
would like some of my ideas on implementation, let me know and I'll give you
what I can remember off the top of my head (and believe me, there's a lot
that's *off* the top of my head!).
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:33:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Empires and Armies
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I just had an idea that I thought was pretty cool for a fantasy game
> of some type. In concept, it's pretty simple: instead of
> individuals, the players play countries. They create armies and
> cities (followers and bases, I guess). It seems to me as if you
> could use the Hero System pretty much as is, with judicious
> choice of combat rules. Characters wouldn't be individuals, they'd
> be armies composed of lots of individuals. You could have armies of
> priests and sorcerors and monsters, too. I can even see divine
> intervention of a kind, as well, maybe a war of the gods with humans
> caught up in the struggle.
Hmmm. I've been toying with this very thing for a while.
>
> This is a very hasty summary of an idea I had when I was half asleep;
> if it doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I wanted to post it for
> feedback. Let me know if you have any comments, please!
Actually, there was a company at GenCon with a new game where the
player plays an entire society (through various size periods of time) I
think it was something like Gold Unicorn or Black Unicorn press, though I
can't think of the game off-hand. I'll have to look through my bag
o'stuff. Anyway, I thought that it would make a great supplement for a
game run with Hero rules, when need be.
BTW, I'll get my GenCon report written soon, I've just been a
little busy.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:19:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: GM's Corner - Pointers
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Good thread(s) ! Something different from rules questions.
I wonder what order/priority these should be in.
I might add:
- Don't let slavish adherence to the rules ruin the fun of the game
- Don't be afraid to 'cheat' to make the game more fun for you AND your
players
Maybe these should just be one rule.
- Remember that you're playing to have fun
Curt
> From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
>
> I compiled a list of pointer for GMs, and I was wondering if anyone
> had any pointers they'd be willing to share with the rest of us.
>
> Below is a list of pointers:
>
> 1. Make it Personal:
>
> 2. Add some variety, but make sure it isn't to much.
>
> 3. Establish Mood, and Atmosphere:
>
> 4. Be Prepared:
>
> 5. Provide Players with Opportunity:
> >
> 6. Stick with what works:
> >
> 7. Establish the ground rules up front:
>
> 8. Remember, a story is finished until it's been played:
>
> 9. A Gamemaster should like his players, and their characters:
>
> 10. Remember, roleplaying is a cooperative effort:
>
> 11. Establish a Campaign Theme, and Direction from the beginning:
>
> 12. Lay a strong foundation for your campaign:
>
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:22:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: GM's corner - plot hooks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Meant to respond on this earlier.
What I'd do when planning upcoming scenarios, was look at what I'd done
the past few game sessions and try to vary it. One of the things I
checked on was "How the heroes got involved" i.e. called on for help,
stumbled across plot, attacked out of the blue, result of their own
investigations. Very similar to Vance's list.
I also varied on type of opposition i.e. normals, agents, supervillain team,
single supervillain, monster, etc. etc. as well as type of plot.
Curt
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: test
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
My apologies for this if anyone sees it. But since I joined
this list three months ago, I've never
been able to send to it, only read, as all my other email is
working, I'm trying a last ditch effort with a new address
someone suggested.
specifically:
hero-l@emerald.omg.org
formally, I had tried:
champ-l@omg.org
but this has always failed for me, as not one post has come through to
the list.
Again, my apologies for the noise if this one makes it.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 23:30:37 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Reply-To: rook@infinex.com
Subject: Thank you and something on topic (my champs website) (was Re: test)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 7
Brian Wong wrote:
> specifically:
> hero-l@emerald.omg.org
>
> formally, I had tried:
> champ-l@omg.org
Ok, someone told me I needed to try champs-l@omg.org
For some reason the reply-to is dropping the 's'.
Of course, when I tried that, I got a returned mail: user unknown
message, so I'm
going to send this to the hero-l address and see if it goes.
Anyway, thanks for helping me everyone; future posts will be on topic.
And for an on topic post, I've just put up a PC on what is the
begginings of my champions
website. I was looking for opinions on the format I chose to use
It's at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/KITTY.htm
Of course, if you have something to say about the character itself
that's all good as well :).
The origin needs to worked a little, I'm not satisfied with it there
yet, but over all I think it's
a fun character. I prefer light-hearted PC's. Dark Champions is just not
my style.
--
Rook
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:42:12 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Two things
>others. The other difference it has with Mechanon is a lack of
>imagination. It is far more brutish and direct in its thinking. And is
>not prone to advance planning. But also like Mechanon, destroying one
> (Note: The high INT stat is representative of retained data, not
>wits.)
> 33 INT x 1 10 23 23 INT Roll: 16 3 ++
> 33 EGO x 2 10 46 46 EGO Roll: 16 4 .
Okay, the BBBsez: "(INT) represents the ability to take in and
process data quickly. INT does not necessarily reflect knowledge." I tend
to think of it as a mental form of DEX, and I know some people who base the
order of actions in Mental Combat on it. I think that if the character is
as you described it, it would have a lower INT and just a *whole lot* of
Knowledge Skills. Maybe even Eidetic Memory...
> 9 PRE x 1 10 -1 -1 PRE Roll: 11 5 .
> -2 COM x 0.5 10 -6 -6 PER Roll: 16 6 ++
Secondly: Is Psiborg really (marginally) more easily impressed than
an average human? And (also marginally) less impressive? Note that I don't
know *anything* about the character... And, about Negative COM: "No Primary
Characteristic may be reduced below 5, except with the GM's permission. In
any case, the minimum value of a Characteristic is always 1." Having said
this, I will note that, HEY, you *are* the GM. In my games, I run the
"Negative Characteristics" rules from the old _Champions_III_ book. In that
one, if you buy Negative COM, it *costs* you points. So, a -2 COM would get
you -4pt (-5 to bring it to 0, +1 to bring it to -2). The reason for this
is that it was stated you could apply 1/2 your Negative COM to PRE attacks
based on fear. You'd be hideous, tho... (How ugly *is* he?)
Jerry
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:00:23 +0000
Subject: Re: GM's Corner - Pointers
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
CC: hero-l@emerald.omg.org, "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com&>
francisb@toronto.planeteer.com
Priority: normal
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 19
> Good thread(s) ! Something different from rules questions.
> I wonder what order/priority these should be in.
Thanks again, any encouragement is very welcome.
> I might add:
I've now go the time to write a more comprehensive reply to post, so
here it is.
> - Don't let slavish adherence to the rules ruin the fun of the game
I fully agree with you here, to many games have been ruined by Rules
Lawyers that don't know when to give up. When the game degenerates in
to an argument, or debate about the rules it spoils the illusion of
the game. I'll definitely have to add this to my list of pointers.
> - Don't be afraid to 'cheat' to make the game more fun for you AND your
> players
Here I happen to disagree with you. Those times the GM has cheated in
favour of my character, or against my character I've been
disappointed. When the GM cheats in my favour I feel like the risk,
and excitement of the game disappears. When the GM cheats against
my character I feel my decisions, and actions have become pointless.
My characters actions should play an important role in the success,
or failure of an adventure. I think it is perfectly fine for the heroes to
fail in their quest now, and then. Let's remember that a champions
campaign is a collection of many adventures. The heroes will get
another shot at the bad guys, and maybe the chance to undo the bad
guy's plans. I realize that there are moments where chance, or player
thick headedness can derail a story line. What I advocate is
manipulation of events to fix plot derailment. The GM's power to
control the actions of the world should be enough to prod the story
line back on the track you'd intended. The GM must be careful not to
erode the player power to determine their own success, or failure.
There may come a time where you should let a player's character die,
fail, or succeed. The fact that the story is in flux, and it's
outcome is uncertain is one of the things that separate roleplaying
from writing stories. Whether you're fudging dice rolls, or
manipulating the events of the story you must remember that the
player shouldn't realize what you're doing.
> maybe these should just be one rule.
Since I agree with one rule, and not the other I think
they're better suited as two separate rules.
>
> - Remember that you're playing to have fun
>
Another Good pointer that'll have to add to the list.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:21:42 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
Subject: Converted character from Superebabes.
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First, I would like to apologize for my lateness. This sample was a
long time coming. Even though it is a bare bones character, I hope
everybody likes it. I hope to fleshout the disadvantages later. Because
I do have some intimate knowledge of this character's origins.
The character that follows is a conversion from Superbabes. It is an
extremely powerful supervillain. And I used no power frameworks, because
it simply didn't seem all that appropriate. So the active points and the
real points are the same.
Name: Psiborg
Designation: Bio-Exterminator Unit 114
(Be afraid! Be very Afraid!)
The concept behind Psiborg is along the same lines as Mechanon. A
robot that is dedicated to the destruction of all organic life. But its
primary objective is abit different. Users of magic rank highest on its
priority list. It will hunt and destroy them first, in exclusion of all
others. The other difference it has with Mechanon is a lack of
imagination. It is far more brutish and direct in its thinking. And is
not prone to advance planning. But also like Mechanon, destroying one
version doesn't mean permanant destruction. A new and more powerful
version will always appear a few months later. As the central
intelligence is actually a gigantic computer system with a factory at
its disposal.
Psiborg is actually extraterrestrial in origin. Its builders, a
highly developed civilization of machine intelligences turned galactic
conquerors, had a bad encounter with a world with a high magic content.
and were almost obliterated. because they had no defense against it. So
the Psiborg intelligence was constructed to hunt down and destroy not
only all organic life, but any traces of magic on a prospective target
of conquest. It was also created to settle an old score. Because, you
see, the world where they were almost destroyed centuries ago was Earth.
(Note: The high INT stat is representative of retained data, not
wits.)
Champions Character Construction v1.1
Name: Psiborg Creation:
Player: Update: 8 28 97
Val Char Cost Base BC RC Lim CV: 18 18.3
55 STR x 1 10 45 45 ECV: 11 11.0 Phases
55 DEX x 3 10 135 135
55 CON x 2 10 90 90 STR Roll: 20 1 .
10 BODY x 2 10 0 0 DEX Roll: 20 2 .
33 INT x 1 10 23 23 INT Roll: 16 3 ++
33 EGO x 2 10 46 46 EGO Roll: 16 4 .
9 PRE x 1 10 -1 -1 PRE Roll: 11 5 .
-2 COM x 0.5 10 -6 -6 PER Roll: 16 6 ++
11 PD x 1 11 0 0 7 .
11 ED x 1 11 0 0 Run 9 8 .
4 SPD x 10 6.5 -25 -25 Leap 9 ++
22 REC x 2 22 0 0 Run Jump 12.5 10 .
110 END x 0.5 110 0 0 Stand Jump 5.5 11 .
66 STUN x 1 66 0 0 High Jump 5.5 12 ++
Characteristics Total 307
BC AC RC Adv Lim Powers END
6 6 6 +3" Running (9" Total) 1
14 14 14 7" Flight (14" noncombat) 1
5 5 5 2 Extra Limbs (arms) 1
80 80 80 16d6 Energy Blast 8
24 24 24 +8D6 Hand to Hand Attack 2
20 30 30 0.5 2D6 Ranged Body Drain 3
5 5 5 UV Vision 1
10 10 10 360 Degree Vision 1
36 36 36 12D6 Dispel Flight 4
30 30 30 Full Life Support 3
87 87 87 Armor (29rPD/29rED) 9
327 Powers Total
BC Per+ Cost Base Plus Roll Skills Type
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 Skill Total
Pts Character Disadvantages
5 Poor
5 Disadvantage Total
100 Base
634 Character Total
529 Points To Go
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:13:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Holy Guacamole! I'd hate to see this wretch after one of my
magic-abusers.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Question about "Linked"
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:12:47 -0400 (EDT)
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The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
-Eric
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:46:04 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
CC: flashbak@pacbell.net, champ-l@omg.org
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William G Geiger wrote:
> Holy Guacamole! I'd hate to see this wretch after one of my
> magic-abusers.
That is the point. A non-magical entity that can present a
legitimate threat to magic using characters. It is supposed to be
terrifying. That is the whole point. Magic users tend to be a cocky
breed that believe that their art makes them pretty near invincible.
This thing makes them stand up and take considerable notice.
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 12:56:37 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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On 8/28/97 12:12 PM, Eric Burns (burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu) Said:
>The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
>be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
>compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
I'm glad this wasn't the question I thought it was....
Personally, I use Active Points.
The popularity of Windows surged in 1995, when |
Microsoft began shipping Windows 95, which | David A. Fair
included many innovations that the Macintosh | SDS International
had introduced 10 years earlier. | dfair@sdslink.com
- Reuters, Friday, July 18, 1997 |
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
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At 12:12 PM 8/28/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
>be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
>compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
Active.
(Oh please please please let them let this pass....) ;-]
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:13:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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I say the larger Power has more Active Points. Aren't Real Points and
Character Points the same thing?
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Eric Burns
<burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu> writes:
>The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can
>only
>be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
>compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
>
>-Eric
>
Cc: willggeiger@juno.com, flashbak@pacbell.net, champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:19:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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I understood the point of the Psiborg character upon first reading. In
fact, the sheer horror of contemplating this creature stalking one of my
mages is compounded by the fact that I create low-powered PCs. Mind you,
I always buy one or more Movement Powers- run away! Run away!
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:04:31 +0000
Subject: The GM's corner - Scenarioes My Way
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
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Scenarioes - How I put them together.
I may have gone over this topic already, but I figure that it could
use a more in depth study.
Inventing a Scenario:
The act of creating is a difficult one. It's hard to come up with an
original, and grabbing story. I decided to give people a look at the
creative process I use. There may be other methods, but this is the
one I use.
An idea:
In the beginning there is an idea. It might be a new character, an
interesting story developement, or an outrageous plot. Once you've
got an idea write it down so you won't forget it.
Where do these story ideas come from? Story ideas come from you,
and the world around you. Inspiration comes in many forms. I've
based adventures on my own nightmares. I've turned a friend's joke
into a major villain. I've based villianous plots on news reports. I've
taken characters from movies, and literature, and turned them into
my own creations. Capturing a creative muse is a two step process;
First, you must keep your mind alert to ideas. You must train
yourself to see story seeds in your every day life. With practice
you'll have a fresh harvest of ideas every day to base stories on.
Second, you must mold inspiration into something useful, and original.
Molding inspiration into a story involves both the creative, and the
rational. Your creative side comes up with the elements out of which
your story is made. Your rational side forges divergent elements
together to form a story.
Some useful questions to ask your self are:
1. Does this make sense?
2. Is this interesting?
3. What would this character do in this situation?
4. What other people could be involved in this story?
5. Does this sequence of events make sense?
6. What other events could happen?
7. What set of elements could best be combined into a story?
The traditional journalists questions are also very useful in
creating stories, and scenes.
Who? What? Why? When? Where? and How?
Well this raps up another issue of the GM's corner.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:16:34 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
CC: flashbak@pacbell.net, champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
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William G Geiger wrote:
> I understood the point of the Psiborg character upon first reading.
> In
> fact, the sheer horror of contemplating this creature stalking one of
> my
> mages is compounded by the fact that I create low-powered PCs. Mind
> you,
> I always buy one or more Movement Powers- run away! Run away!
Good for you!
The thing is not fast. That is the fortunate thing for for the PCs
Which should somewhat iffset some of the disgusting amount of damage the
thing is capable of inflicting. I believe the maximum amount of hand to
hand damage dice the thing is capable of throwing is around 19. Pretty
much a squishy for most average characters. The trick to beating him, of
coarse, is with either an energy projector or a telekinetic. Range
really is the only sensable way to do it.
Would you believe that this monster costs both fewer active points
amd real points than the version of Mechanon in the 4th Edition book?
It's true, frighteningly enough.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:00:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
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> >The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
> >be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
> >compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
>
> Active.
> (Oh please please please let them let this pass....) ;-]
Now, now. Even though I know not what side of the debate you rest
upon, I know of no argument about this aspect of linked.
BTW, you are one of the *good* guys, right?
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:13:41 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
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At 07:21 AM 8/28/97 -0700, Darrin Kelley wrote:
> First, I would like to apologize for my lateness. This sample was a
>long time coming. Even though it is a bare bones character, I hope
>everybody likes it. I hope to fleshout the disadvantages later. Because
>I do have some intimate knowledge of this character's origins.
One question -- why such a low PRE? It seems to me that something like that
would a)be scary as hell, and, b)be pretty hard to intimidate. Is this
representative of a programming quirk, or the like?
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:07:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
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Could somebody mail me a copy of Psiborg's stats? For some
reason, when I viewed the attached file, they were too garbled to read.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:12:54 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
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Eric Burns wrote:
>
> The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
> be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
> compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
Everyone I know interprets this as Active Points.
>
> -Eric
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:35:02 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC]My last word on 'Hi Friends'.
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Lizard wrote:
>
> (Note:This was orginally going to be private email. After much thought, I
> decided, with some reluctance, to cc: it to the list. I want people to
> understand just *why* 'formatted' email is a bad thing, by spelling out the
> numbers. I humbly request replies, criticisms, and the inevitable flames by
> directed off-list)
I am disregarding your request to keep criticisms of your conduct
private, because your original reply was a public affront to everyone on
the list, and is therefore the list's business.
Your extended (second) commentary presented a reasoned, and reasonably
civil, argument for not using graphic emailers, at least in their present
form. I see no reason that you could not have been at least as civil to
the original posters. The odds are that they simply were unaware that
this wouldn't work for most of us. Frankly, you have wasted more time on
this than the original "offense" was worth.
I am sorry if get too many messages to handle conveniently, and I am
sorry if you had a bad day. It happens to all of us on occasion, but I
think that we all have a responsibility to avoid flaming people. If I
want grief, I can go back to work; I am on the list for fun.
I sympathize with your getting passionate over questions of system
integrity and even of game systems. I do not sympathize with your
incivility. Anyone who repeatedly strays from the bounds of civil
discourse will make it onto *my* kill file.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:36:33 -0700
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: GM's Corner - Pointers
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At 11:00 AM 8/28/97 +0000, Vance Scott wrote:
>> - Don't be afraid to 'cheat' to make the game more fun for you AND your
>> players
>
>Here I happen to disagree with you. Those times the GM has cheated in
>favour of my character, or against my character I've been
>disappointed. When the GM cheats in my favour I feel like the risk,
>and excitement of the game disappears. When the GM cheats against
>my character I feel my decisions, and actions have become pointless.
I think that your GM isn't a very good cheater. ;-) I think a skilled GM can find ways to cheat so as to not give away the fact thay they just bent the rules, or fudged a die roll, etc.
Secondly, if you were less entertained by the results of the "cheat" then the GM probably used poor judgement about the time and place to cheat.
>There may come a time where you should let a player's character die,
>fail, or succeed.
...and the timing for such a thing should perhaps enhance the gaming experience. I remember a time when I played a GREAT little thief character in a fantasy game that had a ring he wore from the proceeds of his previous adventures. The GM knew this ring would give him away to wizards who were looking for it/him. So when a caravan was approaching one day when the party was staging an ambush on the caravan, we were all shocked and surprised by a sudden fireball explosion centering on the poor thief. All survived but him, and not s single die was rolled for his benefit or detriment. It was just "his time".
And though for a few minutes I felt "ripped-off" by the deal, his death served as a plot device in a later, but related, game session where the method of his death provided information about the wizard that the party needed in order to defeat him. Without that knowledge, they would have likely been thrashed upon, and perhaps all died unless the GM cheated a lot at that time...hehehe.
So I think that "plot devices" and "story advancement" need to throw of the die. The GM should simply play it out...and be done with it. If the GM is a good one, a skilled one, all of the players will end up enjoying a rich story full of uncertainty and interest.
>The fact that the story is in flux, and it's
>outcome is uncertain is one of the things that separate roleplaying
>from writing stories. Whether you're fudging dice rolls, or
>manipulating the events of the story you must remember that the
>player shouldn't realize what you're doing.
So my remarks are a second to these. Like I said: A GM should feel free to cheat, so long as nobody knows, and it makes the game more enjoyable for all!
Jim
_________________________________________________________________
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net
Castle Game Knight: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:35:39 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
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Darrin Kelley wrote:
>
> 5 Poor
If it's got factories producing more of them, why poor?
Issue with Stats:
I assume a 55 dex was just to keep with the 55 theme. (53 would be just
as useful)
Instead of a 33 Int, I would use eidetic memory and some skills.
A 9 Pre? Ooo Scary.
A 4 speed? Seems a strange number when combined with the Dex. I'm
assuming you're running a campaign with speeds of 2-5.
No power or mental defense? Seems every magic using character I've had
to deal with had one or the other.
It must have some sort of skills?
<Power Level comments deleted>
-Mark
From: "Tivaak" <Tivaak@usa.net>
Subject: Timelines for Champions?
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:30:33 -0500
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Has anyone written up a timeline for the official Champions universe? Which
books contain timelines? thanks.
From: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 23:46:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Timelines for Champions?
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In <19970829033153.10076.qmail@dns01.ops.usa.net&> on 08/28/97
at 10:30 PM, "Tivaak" <Tivaak@usa.net> said:
>Has anyone written up a timeline for the official Champions universe?
>Which books contain timelines? thanks.
Champions Universe (Stock#: 421) 19 pages spanning the years from
500,000,000 BC through 1992
Champions: New Millenium (Stock#: HG10001) 1 page covering 1967 through
2000
The C:NM timeline is not nearly as comprehensive as the CU one, and the
two of the do not agree with each other. (The C:NM universe is not the
Champ's universe 7 years later).
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
john.desmarais@ibm.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 05:42:34 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
CC: champ-l@omg.org
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Mark Lemming wrote:
> If it's got factories producing more of them, why poor?
A single factory. Hidden. As in not mobile.
Other than that, it has very few resources it can call on. And I
felt that the Poor Disadvantage was appropriate because of that fact.
> Issue with Stats:
>
> I assume a 55 dex was just to keep with the 55 theme. (53 would be
> just
> as useful)
> Instead of a 33 Int, I would use eidetic memory and some skills.
I didn't go for balance when I translated Psiborg. But a reasonable
approximation.
As I said in a previous message, I feel that Eidetic Memory would be
giving Psiborg too much of an advantage. It is gross enough as it
stands. The INT roll presents a possibility of failure. Where Eidetic
memory doesn't.
And Psiborg doesn't need many skills. All that are necessary are the
one it gets as Everyman Skills.
> A 9 Pre? Ooo Scary.
It is an ant looking four armed robot. Something that looks like it
popped out of a science fiction movie. Which isn't that impressive,
until it starts firing weapons and doing damage.Plus, the thing is
easily confused by emotional behaviour. So, in the mind of someone from
a modern setting, it doesn't appear that threatening. So the 9 PRE is
justified.
> A 4 speed? Seems a strange number when combined with the Dex. I'm
> assuming you're running a campaign with speeds of 2-5.
DEX represents accuracy, SPD represents reaction time. It isn't
supposed to react too quickly. That is why the SPD is 4. Notice the
movement rates? The thing is supposed to be rather plodding, Sort of
like a tank.
> No power or mental defense? Seems every magic using character I've
> had
> to deal with had one or the other.
In the game I translated Psiborg from, mental powers can't effect
machines. Except when powers specifically effecting machines is bought.
And even then, it isn't common.
There is no real equivilent to Power Defense in that other game
system. Because alteration powers are almost non-existant.And a defense
against them just doesn't exist.
> It must have some sort of skills?
It is a killing machine. Simple and straightforward. The Everyman
Skills cover all it needs.
> <Power Level comments deleted>
I knew something like that would be dropped in my lap eventually!
This thing is supposed to be a major team level menace, not
something someone can take out very easily. It is an annoyingly
recurring threat. One that has to be delt with, or someone will get
hurt. A perfect type of villain for the heroes to cut loose on without
having to face any guilt.
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:16:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 56
Thanks, Darrin and Will, for sending me the Psiborg stats again.
No problems reading them this time.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
From: Joe76653@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:41:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Difficulty Values
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I noticed a difference in the Difficulty Values for unopposed action BGC &
C:NM. The values in C:NM are 10 points higher. The combat sample in the color
pages in the back of C:NM refer to the values in BGC & not the values in C:NM
[where defender is trying to break the containment field around the
artifact].
Defender succeeded in his action when he used the difficulty value from BGC.
He would have failed if the GM had used the C:NM value.
I'd appreciate an explanation, and an example (if possible). Thanks.
--Joe
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Question about "Linked"
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 67
> > >The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can only
> > >be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
> > >compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
> >
> > Active.
> > (Oh please please please let them let this pass....) ;-]
>
>
> Now, now. Even though I know not what side of the debate you rest
> upon, I know of no argument about this aspect of linked.
>
> BTW, you are one of the *good* guys, right?
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
Actually, I agree with the answers I was given (Active Points). Was there
some sort of huge debate about "Linked" before I joined this list, because
I get the feeling that I got a collective dirty look in response to my
question... I'm no trying to stir up trouble (this time), honest!
-Eric
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:02:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Converted character from Superebabes.
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
I had no idea what Psiborg looked like before this post. PRE Defense is
a must- many mages have good PRE or a good PRE spell, Evil Eye, etc.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Difficulty Values
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> I noticed a difference in the Difficulty Values for unopposed action BGC &
> C:NM. The values in C:NM are 10 points higher. The combat sample in the color
> pages in the back of C:NM refer to the values in BGC & not the values in C:NM
> [where defender is trying to break the containment field around the
> artifact].
>
I think you may have sent this to the wrong address.
This mailing list is for champions. there is a seperate Fuzion mailing
list.
Info on the Fuzion mailing list can be found at
http://pjh.org/~jad/fuzion/
Or go to:
To subscribe to the FML, send a subscribe command to fuzion-request@pjh.org. Subscription is
open to the public, though only subscribers may post to the list.
If you have any questions or problems, send them to fuzion-owner@pjh.org.
But please don't send Fuzion questions here. There are two mailing lists
for a reason.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:48:22 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Drain to Zero
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
How do other GMs handle Drains (or Transfers) that take a characters
stats to or below zero? Personally, I use the Negative Characteristics
rules in the old Champions III book, but I'd be interested in your comments.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 30 Aug 97 07:40:14 GMT
X-To: herolist@october.com (herolist) h > The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can h > only h > be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers h > compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points? h > h > -Eric
Subject: Question about "Linked"
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Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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h > The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can
h > only
h > be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
h > compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
h >
h > -Eric
Active points.
10 demerits for mentioning linked.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 30 Aug 97 07:40:14 GMT
X-To: herolist@october.com (herolist) h > The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can h > only h > be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers h > compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points? h > h > -Eric
Subject: Question about "Linked"
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
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Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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To: herolist@october.com (herolist)
h > The description to the "Linked" disadvantage states that a power can
h > only
h > be linked to a larger power. My question is how are the two powers
h > compared, by Real Points, Active Points, or Character Points?
h >
h > -Eric
Active points.
10 demerits for mentioning linked.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:57:45 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:51 AM 8/30/97 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>At 12:48 PM 8/30/97 +0600, *I* wrote:
>> How do other GMs handle Drains (or Transfers) that take a characters
>>stats to or below zero? Personally, I use the Negative Characteristics
>>rules in the old Champions III book, but I'd be interested in your comments.
>
>Also, if you drain someone to -BODY, can I safely assume they are dead, and
>they won't "recover" later? Drains simulate some forms of potentially fatal
>spells better than KA do in my FH campaigns.
>
I thought of this, too. I think that's the way it works. If you have a
BODY of 1, you die when you reach -1. If you have a BODY of 0, you die when
you reach the negative of zero... Hey, you're already there!
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:07:21 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Reply-To: rook@infinex.com
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> How do other GMs handle Drains (or Transfers) that take a
> characters
> stats to or below zero? Personally, I use the Negative
> Characteristics
> rules in the old Champions III book, but I'd be interested in your
> comments.
Personally, I use the rules on page 14 of the Hero System Almanac #1.
I think they're similar to the ones in Champions III, but I haven't
opened that
book in years. I tend to rely on 4th edition for my answers today.
--
Rook
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:51:42 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 12:48 PM 8/30/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> How do other GMs handle Drains (or Transfers) that take a characters
>stats to or below zero? Personally, I use the Negative Characteristics
>rules in the old Champions III book, but I'd be interested in your comments.
Also, if you drain someone to -BODY, can I safely assume they are dead, and
they won't "recover" later? Drains simulate some forms of potentially fatal
spells better than KA do in my FH campaigns.
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:06:11 -0800
From: rbezold <rbezold@nwrain.com>
Subject: New Campaign
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Hi. Im running a present-day superhero campaign and you’re invited.
The campaign takes place in the fictional town of Buford, Con. I have a
completely detailed 500x500 hex map of the campaign city(1hex=5inches).
Snail mail me for a copy at 1122 E Pike #1312 Seattle Wa. 98122.
What makes this campaign different is that there are no super-powered
NPC’s. None. Every superbeing you meet will be another player’s
character. Whether you play a hero or a villain is up to you. I intend
to stay completely neutral.
Each turn represents 12 segments of combat time and 1 hour of non-combat
time. I mail out turns every friday at 11pm pst.
There will be plenty to do even if you don’t meet any other characters.
There is crime to stop (or commit), people to save (or hurt), and
disasters to avert (or cause). This campaign will emphasize the
ordinary guy on the street.
CREATING CHARACTERS - Start with a 150pt base, and as many disadvantages
(No Hunteds - you make your own enemies) as you want. Build the
character any way you want. There is no such thing as an unbalanced
character.
EXPERIENCE - You get experience points at the end of each situation you
resolve. You get points from three catagories:
Opposition - The people trying to stop you had NO CHANCE (-.5), a SLIM
CHANCE (0), an EQUAL CHANCE (+.5), a GOOD CHANCE (+1), a DAMN GOOD
CHANCE (+2).
Additionally, if facing a super-powered opponent, for every 50pts
difference in total points, every 25pts difference in attacks every
10pts difference in defense, and every pt difference of speed there is a
+/-.5
Area affected - Your actions have an effect on ONLY YOU (+.5), a SMALL
GROUP (1-100 people +1), a LARGE GROUP (100-1000 people +2), the ENTIRE
CITY (+3), the ENTIRE COUNTRY (+5), the ENTIRE WORLD (+7).
Consequences - Your actions have a SHORT TERM (up to 1 month +1), LONG
TERM (up to 1 year +3), PERMENENT (+5) effect on the campaign.
I Look forward to hearing from you.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 30 Aug 97 22:57:58 GMT
Subject: 4 color principles
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Supers often seem to have jobs, but they seem to not be as dedicated to them as
normals.
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 30 Aug 97 23:05:22 GMT
Subject: GM's corner - plot hooks
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Possible plot hook, it has been used before.
IS the old standard, your character has been watched from birth, by two sides
of a conflict. And You have finally reached the age where you have to make a
choice of which side you will be on. Both sides are "good" just different.
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 30 Aug 97 23:16:08 GMT
Subject: Alternate Times/Earths
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I once designed a world that was the same as normal earth until c.1860 or so.
After that there was a conjunction of the spheres, and low level at first
powered individuals came about, such as Sherlock Holmes and like (Sherlock used
as a marker point, not part of the world I created).
It also included Martian Ether riding and like (Mars 1889?). Had a Golden Age
of Supers, Silver age and such, and then in c.1967, things really got wierd.
The world was invaded by aliens (humanoid ones, looked like elves?)
>From a paradimensional empire.
You characters are current day survivors, either of the old days, or the new
days (born since 1967), whose mission is to retake the earth from the Aliens.
Since the supers of 1967 were not strong enough to do it in 1967. Your group is
a small cell f the CN-Elf (Confederation of Nations-Earth Liberation Force).
Sort of a red dawn meets Aliens (sort of).
From: "Tivaak" <Tivaak@usa.net>
Subject: Champions books, short reviews?
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:19:31 -0500
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hi all,
well, i'm pretty much sold on getting Champions Universe, if only for the
timeline, but what else is in the book?
Also, what about the following books:
Olympians, Golden Age, Invasions: Target Earth and Dark Champions.
could someone post some short reviews of these books -- what's in them, are
they worth getting? etc. thanks for any information. i know that they're
mostly out of print, but there are places on the web i can get them, but i
don't like getting books sight unseen, so any information would be very
helpful.
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:29:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
For death, the BBB (p. 161) and I say you must lose twice your original
BODY. Having a negative BODY means you are dying.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
>Also, if you drain someone to -BODY, can I safely assume they are
>dead, and
>they won't "recover" later? Drains simulate some forms of potentially
>fatal
>spells better than KA do in my FH campaigns.
>
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:39:00 -0400
X-To: hero-l@october.com
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Listname: Hero
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Hah! You should meet some of my alleged coworkers.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
On 30 Aug 97 22:57:58 GMT Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
writes:
>
>
>Supers often seem to have jobs, but they seem to not be as dedicated
>to them as
>normals.
>
>
>
>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:52:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Champions books, short reviews?
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-23,28-29,34-35,37-38
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:19:31 -0500 "Tivaak" <Tivaak@usa.net> writes:
>hi all,
>
>well, i'm pretty much sold on getting Champions Universe, if only for
>the
>timeline, but what else is in the book?
>
>Also, what about the following books:
>
>Olympians, Golden Age, Invasions: Target Earth and Dark Champions.
>
>could someone post some short reviews of these books -- what's in
>them, are
>they worth getting? etc. thanks for any information. i know that
>they're
>mostly out of print, but there are places on the web i can get them,
>but i
>don't like getting books sight unseen, so any information would be
>very
>helpful.
As mentioned recently, I own Golden Age, and I think it's great. No
further comment here, though, because mine is a 1st print, not 4th
Edition. The later version has more than rules changes, so I'm told. If
no one else will give you the 4th Edition review, prompt me and I'll tell
you about the older version.
Dark Champions is also superb, even if you prefer 4-color games, as I do.
It is not designed to exclude 4-color concepts. Steve Long is a
knowledgable, thorough, entertaining writer. My favorite parts are the
Guns, Vehicles, and Gadgets, which I have referred to and altered
portions of many times.
I've seen the other two books, which I did not find especially
entertaining or useful.
>
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Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 11:07 AM