Week Ending September 20, 1997
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From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:34:39 +0000
Subject: NNDs- Are they broken?
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I was considering the oil slick Drain question, and it occurred to me
that a character with Power Defense was resistant, and could,
conceivably, completely ignore these oil slick ideas that involved
Drains and Suppresses. This meant that you needed NND, so that Power
Defense wouldn't defend. However, NNDs are hideously expensive, even
though the defense of not being on the surface stopped the power
better than Power Defense (because it protected absolutely), and was
more common to boot, at least in my campaigns.
Which lead me to a question- who thinks that NNDs need refining?
Consider a STUN Drain NND and an Energy Blast NND. The Drain pays the
same amount for NND that Energy Blast does, and gets the same effect.
OTOH, the Energy Blast NND is actually cheaper than a AVLD, which
would give you the same effect as the Drain did in the first place.
Thus, Drain pays for a Advantage that could, logically, be considered
a Limitation, because it gives up the equivalent of an AVLD for a
NND.
Other weaknesses exist. Imagine two NNDs, one not against Force
Field, one not against 10 pts. Life Support. In most campaigns, the
Life Support one is more effective, because Life Support is rarer.
However, in a hero-level game, a FF might be very rare, while gas
masks may be readily available.
I was considering something like this.
Unusual Defense
Unusual Defense is an advantage (or, sometimes, a limitation) that
applies to attack powers. Unusual Defense changes the defense of a
power so that it is different than the standard defense for that
power. For example, a gas attack EB whose defense is Life Support:
Does not breathe, or a ultra-sharp toxic dart EB whose defense is
Hardened Resistance PD or 15 Resistant PD.
The cost of Unusual Defense is based upon the commonness of the
defense and the degree to which it defends you. It replaces both NND
and AVLD.
Defense is:
A partial defense +1 (As with an AVLD)
A total defense:
All the time +1/2 (As NND vs a power, like LS)
A normal roll +3/4 (Character makes roll, nothing happens)
A -5 roll +1
Defense is:
Much more common than normal defense -1
More common than normal defense -1/2
As common as normal defense +0
Less common than normal defense +1/2
Much less common than normal defense +1
If the power has multiple defenses, then the other defenses are taken
as standard limitations.
Example:
Hypno has an EB UD: Partial defense: Flash. Flash only partially
effective, each point of Flash Defense subtracts 1 point of STUN
damage. Thus, the cost of the UD is Partial Defense (+1), Less common
than normal defense (+1/2) (not much less common, because of
sunglasses and tinted motorcycle helmet faceplates), for a total of
+1 1/2. This is exactly the same as AVLD, both in cost and in effect.
Example: Dartman has EB UD: Not vs 10pts Resistant Defense, because
of drugged darts. The defense is total (+1/2), and is Less common
than normal defense (+1/2), for a total of +1, exactly the same as
the original NND, in cost and effect.
Example: Gasboy has a EB UD: 10pts Life Support. Life Support
completely stops the attack (+1/4), and the GM declares that Life
Support: Does not breathe is very rare in his campaign, and is thus
is much less common than normal PD (+1). This gives a total cost
increase of +1 1/4, because it is less likely to be stopped than
Dartman's darts. Doesn't work if target is holding his breath,
however, would be a limitation on the power itself, just as it would
be if it was taken on an ordinary EB.
Another example: Slick has the power DEX Suppress, with the special
effect that he makes the ground extra slippery. His GM decides that
Power Defense is useless vs slipperiness, and tells him to buy
Unusual Defense. Slick calculates the cost of the UD like this:
Defense is target is not touching surface, which is determined to be
more common than Power Defense (-1/2), and the defense stops the
power completely, all the time(+1/2). Thus, this UD costs nothing.
What do you guys think?
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:28:00 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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At 03:37 PM 9/13/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>The esteemed Mr. Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> sez:
>> About two to three per session is probably about right, especially if you
>play once a week, >as most groups do; it could even be considered high.
>However, you [me!] mentioned in >another post that you play every two to
>three weeks, so you might even be able to get away >with going up to
>averaging 4 per session.
Hm. I seem to have made the list of Esteemed Champions Minds. Maybe
someday I'll be called a Champions Guru, and I'll start getting invited as
Guest Speaker at someone's Con. Someday............ ;-)
>This being said, I have used really three different (but similar) systems,
>which overlapped...
>
>1) Started as 1 xp/session, +1 if it was especially long or the players
>were being really cool (kind of how I interpret playing well; if I had a
>good time...).
>This kind of morphed into...
>2) 2 xp/session, +1 if we played all night, +1 if the individual players
>were cool and/or funny, +1 for giving me cool drawings/backgrounds of the
>characters/events (one of the guys does *lovely* Anime-esque art, and I've
>had to cut that bonus back slightly).
>3) Flat, 1 xp/session (my most recent game, with the most players.
>
>With 1, I was just starting out, and simply used the table in the back of
>the book. At 2, some of the players complained that they weren't advancing
>fast enough, and I didn't want unhappy players. Also, S. John Ross told me
>of his "Bonus Starting Character Points" system (I don't think that's what
>he calls it) that he uses in GURPS. He awards extra points *at character
>creation* for things like: character sketch/full description (at least a
>page, I believe); promise to do a character diary/log/chronicle, in
>character; and some other things, I forgot, I'll ask John. 3 was my most
>recent game, with the most players, and I didn't want to "play favorites" or
>upset anyone. Plus, most of them were still exploring the system and the
>novelty of just playing their characters in this "new" (to them) system was
>enough.
Tailoring the xp awards to the needs of the group is a very sensible
idea that I admit has never occurred to me, and I've never seen it in print
or on the list either (at least not that I can think of). We're so busy
with applying YMMV to character creation and combat rules and campaign
flavors that we forget that it can apply to something as obvious as
experience point awards.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:19:54 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Ego[not EGO]and Hero(Was:You know your a HERO player when...)
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Filksinger wrote:
>
> Has anyone here ever designed themselves as they wish they were,
> based upon 250 points, just for fun?
>
> (If not, I'm going to feel really stupid.)
You may feel really stupid anyway, just with company....
Actually, I've gone full-bore on the self-aggrandization highway;
I've built 'myself' as I would envision myself as a 'realistic' hero,
but that was just the beginning!
I went on to create a version of myself with 'normal' CHARs and my
actual skills, with a huge VPP which would allow me to 'write my own
character sheet' a'la Dial 'H' for Hero (but with more control) and came
in and out of the various games I GMed as an NPC/Plot Device.
Then I wrote up 'myself' using superpowers as an analogy for
personality traits - which led to my writing up an entire 'villian' team
of characters based on my players using powers as personalities - who
make the occasional appearance in my current game.
Not to mention that my first and longest-played character (Capt.
Spith, oddly enough) has always been played as myself actually sticking
concretely to all of my ideals.
I also still have one or two more versions of 'myself' stuck in a
folder somewhere....
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:17:40 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
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At 09:46 PM 9/13/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
>On 12 Sep 97 at 15:04, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
>> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg
>
>Uh, your sig has 404ed.
I caught that the same time you did. It should now be corrected (below).
Thanks for the note, though.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: I don't think so, Tim.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:33:44 -0400
Subject: Re: You know your a HERO player when
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> On 12 Sep 97 at 23:41, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Devan wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, John Lansford wrote:
> > >
> > > > You calculate your own statistics and wish your personal STR were just
> > > > a point or two higher
> > >
> > > Or possibly...
> > >
> > > You keep thinking, "Damn, I've got all these disadvantages.. Where the hell
> > > did I spend my points?"
> >
> > Or that all you *really* had to do in order to learn a new language (like
> > Japanese) is spend a coupla points somewhere...
> >
>
> Has anyone here ever designed themselves as they wish they were,
> based upon 250 points, just for fun?
>
> (If not, I'm going to feel really stupid.)
No, but for my final project for CS 221 (Structured Programming in C), I
wrote a program that wrote a Postscript character sheet for a normal in
Champions... and used myself as the example when I had to demo it to the
professor. :)
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE/UBE will be crucified. ***
"Katy, you're a freshman. Find 2,000 people."
--Droz, _PCU_
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:40:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
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> > Of course, that said, I don't totally agree with that rule. It is
> > really up to character conception and cohesion. However, for most
> > practical purposes one is hard pressed to come up with more than one that
> > fits a given SFX, except maybe for a gadgeteer-type.
>
> Many wide-spectrum types can theoretically justify more than one. A broad
> band environmental mage for example could theoretically smother you, hit
> you with heat shock, cause little bugs to appear and sting you, and so on.
> But the gas gun/trank gun combination of the gadgeteer is a particularly
> obvious one.
Which really makes it a game balance thing. Do you want to
allow someone with that type of power and unbalanced-ness. I'd need top
see the attacks at a very low level (2 to 3 dice of NND) before I might
allow multiple NNDs.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:08:20 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: You know you're a Hero player when...(archive)
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Because I've got too much time on my hands, here's a comprehensive list
for those who want to keep these things....
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:01:28 -0700
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Subject: You know you're a Hero player when...(archive)
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Captain Spith wrote:
Eric Burns...
>-When you ask everyone you meet how many "Total Points" they are "built
>on".
>When you refer to your glasses as your "OIF Focus for Enhanced Normal
>Sight".-
Capt. Spith...
>...Instead of covering a friends eyes and saying "Guess Who?" you say
>"Make a perception roll"
>...During a snowball fight, you start cataloging who has a high DEX
>and who has skill levels.
>...You refer to your friends' and family's idiosyncracies as Psych
>Lims
Curtis Gibson...
>... you tell someone waiting, 'Be back in a segment'.
>... any movie seen is instantly catalogued as Wild Ninja Hero,
>Streetlevel, ect.
>... You refer to getting your second wind as 'taking a post 12'
Happyelf...
>... you get annoyed in a fun run if your second wind doesn'y come ever 12 seconds. .
>... nobody else seems to understand what "ouch! nnd me will ya!" means....
>... you don't understand how people can learn to play th piano without first saving a >bunch of orphans from a burning building or at least beating up a thug
Bob Greenwade...
>...what's going through your mind during a movie is what each
>character's Characteristics, Skills, and Disadvantages would be.
>...you count off segments when watching an action sequence.
>...you tune in a martial arts tournament just to see what hwarang-do
>actually looks like.
>...you're being hurried by someone and you ask for one extra level on
>the Time Chart.
>...you express your computer's speed as a one-digit number that is not
>in Megahertz.
>...someone in an AOL chat room offers you a a celebrity nude pic and you
>ask for Quantum.
>...your computer's hard disk has more space devoted to CHA files than
>EXE files.
>...your line of thought when vacationing is what would be a cool place
>to stage a superhero battle. (Side note: the tide pools at Yaquina Head
>just north of Newport, Oregon would be an *excellent* locale!)
>...someone mentions four armed guards, and you wonder how many there are
>and whether they have weapons. (You may have to read that one multiple
>times to understand it.)
John Lansford...
>You calculate your own statistics and wish your personal STR were just
>a point or two higher
>You write vacation spots for brochures to use in your campaign, not to
>plan a vacation with (I did this for New Orleans)
>You judge building materials on how much knockback they subtract off
>before getting knocked through them
William G Geiger...
>Every time you research,
>your sweetie says it is for gaming purposes.
David Fair...
>... you look for places to attach a swingline as you walk from your
>office to the Metro (or your car).
>... you compile lists of people you meet whose names would sound good
>on your PC's & NPC's (maybe that one's just me?)
>... you trip on a crack in the sidewalk you say "I'm OK, just failed
>my DEX roll"
>... you know what a photographic memory is _really_ called. (Eidetic
>Memory, in case you don't have one)
Devan...
>You keep thinking, "Damn, I've got all these disadvantages.. Where the hell did I
>spend my points?"
Michael Surbrook...
>Or that all you *really* had to do in order to learn a new language (like
>Japanese) is spend a coupla points somewhere...
----
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Comments: Authenticated sender is <swhbfssg@pop.softnet.co.uk>
From: "MarkBarltrop" <Mark.Barltrop@kzin.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:12:30 +0100
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
Reply-to: tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk
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On 11 Sep 97 at 21:16, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> >
> > NO. Allowing a single character two different NND attacks is
> > normally forbidden in Champions, and you want an infinite number of
> > NND attacks?
>
> Of course, that said, I don't totally agree with that rule. It is
> really up to character conception and cohesion. However, for most
> practical purposes one is hard pressed to come up with more than one
> that fits a given SFX, except maybe for a gadgeteer-type.
>
Martial Arts- both Hwarang-do & Ninjitsu allow 2 different NNDs, Plus
there would be no reason why someone with those styles could not have
their own NND. For example if Scorpia, say, had either of those
styles instead of Generic Comic book, She would have 3 NNDs. (though
in her case all 3 would be stopped by solid armour).
Although strictly speaking those 2 styles are illegal under the Hero
system (I'm assuming these weren't changed in USM), the fact that
they would both be stopped by solid armour might well explain the
exemption, and as someone else said earlier, allowing multiple NNDs
as long as one (fairly common) defence stops all of them could be the
way to go.
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk)
'What is it?'
'Its a wolf!'
'In a city? What does it find to eat?'
'Oh, why did you have to ask that?'
(Terry Pratchett,'Feet of Clay')
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:18:41 -0500
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Books in Champions Universe
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> It wasn't lack of faith that prevented the Hero guys from trying to get
>the Champions Universe developed into other media forms; it was the fact
>that they didn't own the rights to all of its institutions, PRIMUS being
>arguably the most notable case (as well as anything written by Aaron
>Allston). I asked Steve P. point-blank in an email once, and that's what
>he told me (and it makes perfect sense).
Except that in my experience, those in the game industry have a rather
nebulous concept of "rights". Every source I've found indicates a total of
two protections for literary creations: copyrights and trademarks. Hero
Games very explicitly owns both the copyrights and trademarks for those
works they published (at least, a quick glance at supplements I own ranging
from TO SERVE AND PROTECT to NORMALS UNBOUND showed a consistent format
claiming both copyright and trademark for Hero Games).
> Personally, I'm just wishing that they could've negotiated something
> with the copyright owners and/or done something a little more drastic.
Hero Games *is* "the copyright owners", or at least always began as such.
> I can't even get a straight answer from Steve about whether the old CU
> is going to be supported in Hero Plus materials.
Have we ever gotten a straight answer from Steve about ANYTHING? :]
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:18:44 -0500
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: You know your a HERO player when
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At 03:34 PM 9/12/97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> ...you tune in a martial arts tournament just to see what hwarang-do
>actually looks like.
I would, except I have yet to find anything to tune into which is featuring
hwarang-do. (Or pentjak silat, either, another M-ART I'd like to watch.
Did catch a Karala documentary on ESPN once, though).
> ...your computer's hard disk has more space devoted to CHA files than
>EXE files.
Well, not anymore, but I just bought a ZIP drive precisely for that problem...
> ...someone mentions four armed guards, and you wonder how many there are
>and whether they have weapons. (You may have to read that one multiple
>times to understand it.)
(*LOL*)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:18:46 -0500
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
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At 03:04 PM 9/12/97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> There is that. But there's also the artistic purpose of putting out a
>book of any type. I doubt that they would've put out the HSAs (with
>apparent plans of doing more) if they weren't trying to expand the Hero
>System as a whole (the books' stated purpose). Remember, these guys are
>writers and gamers, not television network programming executives. They do
>have souls. ;-]
So does my Dad. I don't want him writing my gaming supplements, either. :/
(NASCAR Hero, anyone?)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:31:10 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: (Genre Question) Teen Aged Heroes. Is it a viable construct
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> There are several examples of this in the genre.
>
> New Mutants, Teen Titans, DNAgents, Gen 13,
>Generation X, X Force.
>
> Gaming gives us Arcadian Academy, Scions of Cain,
>and I know of two PBeM's devoted to the subject. For
>those who don't know, the first two are from Fuzion,
>the second two are Champions PBeM's.
>
> The question here remains however, is this a viable
>concept. The idea of a group of teenage Super-Heroes.
>What ought to happen to people of such an age in a
>Super-Universe.
>
> Obviously, they shouldn't be out in the open battling
>Galactus, that seems the role of the adults...
>
> So is the idea of such a Super Team viable. What would
>they do? What should they not do? How would adult
>society deal with them? Why would they exist as a super
>hero team? What would hold them together? How would
>they pull it off?
>
> What kind of adventures would make sense for them?
>
>--
>Rook
I'm currently running a game where the character's ages range from 16 - 30.
This makes for an interesting game because the older superheroes role play
it well. They feel the younger generation of heroes has no right being
heroes yet and should be in school and enjoying their young lives before
getting killed by a villian. The younger character's fight with them all
the time and when they get in trouble with their parents come to the older
members looking for help, which though they help them usually point out the
parents are right. Note: All the players are about the same age. This
makes for great role playing. The adventures are about the same as all
super hero stories, but the gap in age difference among characters makes for
a certain amount of tension between the characters. Coincidentally, the
players chose the age, and it seems the more powerful characters are younger
so they feel they have every bit of a right to be full fledged members on
the team. This doesn't answer your question I realize, but I thought I'd
share my experience with the younger hero vs older hero scenario. And yes,
the youngest member just went one on one with Firewing, though I hate to say
it really wasn't a fight. This brought about a team bent on beating
Firewing and then bringing the character's parents in on the fact he was a
hero and in serious condition in the hospital. Great role playing. Take it
easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
====================================================
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 14 Sep 97 23:05:26 GMT
Subject: re: campaign questionaire
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In one of my universes the "Metas" first started showing up c.1860
when there was a passing of the Spheres (read Moorcock to know what I mean)
And things started to happen a bit different. It started slow, people
like Sherlocks Holmes came into exister as the "magic"
crept ipers started showing up.
Over time the supers started to get to be low level to mid level, then
the invasion came from a parallel dimenstion and the supers
were drafted to fight the enemy, but the ene superior
technology, so the nations of Earth (The Confederation of Nations, sort
of like a less y of the United Nations) fell.
And the people of earth who wished to fight the invaders went underground.
Sort of a Red Dawn scenario (I think I originally had the idea
after one of the times I saw the movie).
The current group in the scenario are a rebel group based of all places
Alaska (Alyeska in this world) (I live in Alaska okay).
They are made up of supers/metas and some normals in a fight to reclaim
Earth from the invaders looks alot like elves or
Elrics Melnibonians.
Yes I am a reader of Moorcock, Zelazny, Farmer, Noey, and
a few others.
-=> Quoting herolist@october.com to All <=-
he> From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
he> Subject: Re: Campaign Questionnaires
> Other Super Questions....
> Why are there supers in your world (ie ancient genetic tampering,
> Wildcards virus ect)? And this question I wouldn't expect the GM to tell
> the players, just that he knows what it is. I had mine planned and 8
> years later only 2 PCs know the answer; big mystery in the campaign.
>
he> You know. I actually intentionally did not answer this question
he> for my super world. It's not the focus I chose. My focus is on the
he> nature of they mythic hero ideal. Certain things just 'are'.
Sorry for spelling errors, the connect is buggy and my uploads are not being
uoploaded right.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:36:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
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> Martial Arts- both Hwarang-do & Ninjitsu allow 2 different NNDs, Plus
> there would be no reason why someone with those styles could not have
> their own NND. For example if Scorpia, say, had either of those
> styles instead of Generic Comic book, She would have 3 NNDs. (though
> in her case all 3 would be stopped by solid armour).
And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They aren't
really different NNDs.
> Although strictly speaking those 2 styles are illegal under the Hero
> system (I'm assuming these weren't changed in USM), the fact that
> they would both be stopped by solid armour might well explain the
> exemption, and as someone else said earlier, allowing multiple NNDs
> as long as one (fairly common) defence stops all of them could be the
> way to go.
Illegal? First I've heard anything to that effect. Explain.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:02:33 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
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At 09:36 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> Martial Arts- both Hwarang-do & Ninjitsu allow 2 different NNDs, Plus
>> there would be no reason why someone with those styles could not have
>> their own NND. For example if Scorpia, say, had either of those
>> styles instead of Generic Comic book, She would have 3 NNDs. (though
>> in her case all 3 would be stopped by solid armour).
>
> And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
>of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They aren't
>really different NNDs.
Modification: They're different, but not *that* different. The special
effects that neutralize them overlap, making them at least marginally
acceptable.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:54:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: nez@pop3.thepoint.net
From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: XP Awards
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I weigh ex awards on several factors. The level/type of the game, the
lethality level of the game, the genre, the end goals, the number of people
involved, the general playing skill of the players, and what I feel the
players of that campaign want.
One thing we do a bit differently with xp, is to try and break it down a bit
more, so that individual moves, creative soliqy, clever ideas, can each
count for something, without easily adding up to 12-14 points. That is to
give out decimal points. In some of my games I break it down to give out
between 15-50 points per session, with 25 being the average. 10 points = 1.
This allows me to say "gee telling that villian his shoes were untied is
worth a point, what else showed me an aspect of your character." this can be
fun wrap up, but can also be ugly competition, hence why I don't always do
it that way.
Lately I've been doing more just straight points, almost everyone gets the
same unless they play badly/well.
The CLPC = currently longest played character total
ALE = Alien Law Enforcement
Game 1: Sector 2 ALE:
Champions super hero mostly 4 color game.:
250 point game: 3-7 points given out per adventure with adventures
taking between 1-4 games.
Reason: standard super hero level IMO
CLPC: 3 years, 118 xp
Game 2: Sector 6 ALE:
Champions super hero, 4 color with heavy grey overtones:
250 point game: same as above.
Reason: To keep games at similar levels.
CLPC: 3 years, 107 xp
Game 3: Sector 1 ALE:
Champions super hero, reasonably silly, rarely played, very campy:
300 point game: 3 points per session, with extra points for the
right laugh.
Reason: game balance doesn't matter, we're just goofing off. Why
think about xp, just standard is good. The gm once considered giving out 700
points, but changed his mind.
CLPC 2 years (15 play sessions): 47 xp
Game 4: Fantasy Hero:
Mythic legends as the characters set out on a quest in a world
filled with black plague, based on a myth they all once heard.
150 point game: 2-4 points per adventure. (adventure = 1-4 sessions).
Reason: I want to keep this game low level, and stay away from
fantasy super heroes. Low magic, lots of non magical foes, standard thugs as
threats so i need slow advancment. The characters are heroic enough at start.
CLPC 4 months (9 games) 14 XP.
Game 5: Western Horror Hero:
Supernatural forces in the new unexplored world of America. Very
high lethality (6 deaths in 9 games- 4 from the same player though)
100 point game: 4-9 points per game.
Reason: characters start out just nobodys, one more face on the road
west, but as they uncover the impossible, face that which has never been
faced, they quickly become the stuff of legend. Learn fast or die. Start
small, build fast.
CLPC: 9 Games 44 xp
Game 6: ALE Reservist force:
Champions super hero, heroes in training.
200 point game: 5-9 points per session
Reason: to reflect intensive training in between games.
CLPC: 2 games: 9 xp With 50 ex characters are allowed to graduate
to other ALE groups. Very rarely has anyone played the same reservist twice
yet so this hasn't happened. We've played 6 reservist games.
Thats all the hero games I currently run. Most are bi weekly, except for
game 3 and game 6.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:23:30 -0500
From: John Stefanski <jstefanski@internetMCI.com>
Subject: Scenario Ideas
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Would anyone like to post their favorite scenario ideas/threads?
I personally get some of my favorite smaller scenarios from cartoons. A great source is "The New Adventures of Jonny Quest." I change the names and mold some of the story ideas to the appropriate characters in our game.
JS
==============================
John Stefanski
"There can BE only one"
Send all replies to jstefanski@iname.com
==============================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:24:28 -0500
From: John Stefanski <jstefanski@internetMCI.com>
Subject: Champion Comics
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If anyone is interested, I have the complete set of hero comics. This includes:
"Champions Mini-series" 1-6,
"Champions (Unlimited?)" 1-12,
"Champions Annual" 1, "
"The League of Champions" 1-3
"Captain Thunder & Blue Bolt" 1-4
The Flare Mini-series,
The Marksman Mini-series, and
The Rose Mini-series.
Thanks,
JS
==============================
John Stefanski
"There can BE only one"
Send all replies to jstefanski@iname.com
==============================
Subject: Re: Books in Champions Universe
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 08:56:41 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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On 9/14/97 4:18 PM, Vox Ludator! (ludator@mail.softfarm.com) Said:
>> I can't even get a straight answer from Steve about whether the old CU
>> is going to be supported in Hero Plus materials.
>
>Have we ever gotten a straight answer from Steve about ANYTHING? :]
Steve P. Is a lawyer; he, and others of his kind, are genetically
incapable of giving a straight answer.
The popularity of Windows surged in 1995, when |
Microsoft began shipping Windows 95, which | David A. Fair
included many innovations that the Macintosh | SDS International
had introduced 10 years earlier. | dfair@sdslink.com
- Reuters, Friday, July 18, 1997 |
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:13:01 -0500
From: John Stefanski <jstefanski@internetmci.com>
Subject: RE: XP Awards
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I use a very subjective system that encourages various areas of play. I usually start with a Base Experience for a game at three and go from there.
Areas of Measurement:
1.) Played within Character Conception,
2.) Co-operative Playing,
3.) Characters Significance
Scale:
-1 Point: Terrible
-1/3 Point: Poor
+0 Point: Average
+1/3 Point: Good
+1 Point: Excellent
I always accompany comments for the award.
JS
==============================
John Stefanski
"There can BE only one"
Send all replies to jstefanski@iname.com
==============================
From: BCBattle@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:37:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Champion Comics
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>If anyone is interested, I have the complete set of hero comics. This
includes:
>"Champions Mini-series" 1-6,
>"Champions (Unlimited?)" 1-12,
>"Champions Annual" 1, "
>"The League of Champions" 1-3
>"Captain Thunder & Blue Bolt" 1-4
>The Flare Mini-series,
>The Marksman Mini-series, and
>The Rose Mini-series.
It's interesting that you say you have the complete set. I think there may
be more to it than what you currently own. I myself have copies of:
Champions Annual 1 and 2,
League of Champions 1-3, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 10
Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Comics) 1-4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10
Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Graphics) 1 and 2
The Lady Arcane mini-series 1, 2 and 4 (of 5)
Marksman Annual 1
As for Flare:
Flare (Hero Comics) 1-3
Flare (Heroic) 1-10
Flare Adventures 1-3 and 12
Flare Annual 1
Flare First Edition 1, 2, 4, 6 and 10
And what about the Icicle mini-series?: 1-4 (of 4)
And I'm pretty sure there was a Sparkplug special or two as well as a couple
of things that exclusively involved Foxbat in his own title. So far, I have
yet to latch onto those as well as the Marksman mini-series.
If anyone can steer me in the right direction for the rest of these Works of
Great Literature, I'd be mighty grateful.
BCB
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:43:59 -0500
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Books in Champions Universe
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At 12:34 PM 9/15/97 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>To be more precice, copyright applies to the text and instances of artwork,
>and tradmark applies to the likenesses of the characters. And yeah, any
>comercial entity goes out of its way to make sure that both copyright and
>trademark protection are in effect whenever possible.
And to be even more precise (and perhaps annoying), trademarks can also
apply to the names of characters. IIRC, Hero Games only bothers claiming
trademarks on the names of its products, so (for example) "To Serve And
Protect" is a trademark, but "Protectors" and "Quasar" aren't. (This gives
people a certain leeway in universe building ...)
One may also hear people (usually representatives of interested parties
like, say, TSR) talk about a "character copyright" separate from the
standard "put a copyright on the textual description and/or artwork you made
concerning the character", which would prevent one from lifting characters
(or in more extremist versions, using settings or universes) from another
source ... but as far as I've been able to determine this is halfway between
legal urban legend and outright wishful thinking -- the sort of thing people
just assume "should" be in the law and don't bother looking.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:57:56 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
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At 01:34 AM 9/14/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
>Which lead me to a question- who thinks that NNDs need refining?
>
>Consider a STUN Drain NND and an Energy Blast NND. The Drain pays the
>same amount for NND that Energy Blast does, and gets the same effect.
>OTOH, the Energy Blast NND is actually cheaper than a AVLD, which
>would give you the same effect as the Drain did in the first place.
Not exactly. An Energy Blast AVLD has range; a Drain does not (unless
you use the Range Advantage).
>Thus, Drain pays for a Advantage that could, logically, be considered
>a Limitation, because it gives up the equivalent of an AVLD for a
>NND.
A Drain NND with Range is 25 pts/d6; an Energy Blast AVLD is 12.5 pts/d6.
Arguably, this is indeed (as I gather you're trying to say) too large of
a price gap.
>Other weaknesses exist. Imagine two NNDs, one not against Force
>Field, one not against 10 pts. Life Support. In most campaigns, the
>Life Support one is more effective, because Life Support is rarer.
>However, in a hero-level game, a FF might be very rare, while gas
>masks may be readily available.
>
>I was considering something like this.
>
>Unusual Defense
>
>Unusual Defense is an advantage (or, sometimes, a limitation) that
>applies to attack powers. Unusual Defense changes the defense of a
>power so that it is different than the standard defense for that
>power. For example, a gas attack EB whose defense is Life Support:
>Does not breathe, or a ultra-sharp toxic dart EB whose defense is
>Hardened Resistance PD or 15 Resistant PD.
Looking here at a modifier that crosses the line between an Advantage
and a Limitation, then, like Charges (and END Battery from older editions)?
>The cost of Unusual Defense is based upon the commonness of the
>defense and the degree to which it defends you. It replaces both NND
>and AVLD.
>
>Defense is:
>
>A partial defense +1 (As with an AVLD)
>A total defense:
> All the time +1/2 (As NND vs a power, like LS)
> A normal roll +3/4 (Character makes roll, nothing happens)
> A -5 roll +1
I'm not sure I understand these last two entries.
>Defense is:
>Much more common than normal defense -1
>More common than normal defense -1/2
>As common as normal defense +0
>Less common than normal defense +1/2
>Much less common than normal defense +1
This is generally sensible, though I think I'd halve the modifiers and
change the argument of how common to what the average value is (if someone
doesn't have it, the value is 0).
>If the power has multiple defenses, then the other defenses are taken
>as standard limitations.
[Examples clipped for some semblence of brevity]
>What do you guys think?
This is an interesting idea, if nothing else. It could use a little
fleshing out and balancing, though -- but that's what we're here for! :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:07:27 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champion Comics
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At 10:37 AM 9/15/97 -0400, BCBattle@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>If anyone is interested, I have the complete set of hero comics. This
>includes:
>
>>"Champions Mini-series" 1-6,
>>"Champions (Unlimited?)" 1-12,
>>"Champions Annual" 1, "
>>"The League of Champions" 1-3
>>"Captain Thunder & Blue Bolt" 1-4
>>The Flare Mini-series,
>>The Marksman Mini-series, and
>>The Rose Mini-series.
>
>It's interesting that you say you have the complete set. I think there may
>be more to it than what you currently own. I myself have copies of:
>
>Champions Annual 1 and 2,
>League of Champions 1-3, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 10
>Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Comics) 1-4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10
>Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Graphics) 1 and 2
>The Lady Arcane mini-series 1, 2 and 4 (of 5)
>Marksman Annual 1
>
>As for Flare:
>
>Flare (Hero Comics) 1-3
>Flare (Heroic) 1-10
>Flare Adventures 1-3 and 12
>Flare Annual 1
>Flare First Edition 1, 2, 4, 6 and 10
>
>And what about the Icicle mini-series?: 1-4 (of 4)
>
>And I'm pretty sure there was a Sparkplug special or two as well as a couple
>of things that exclusively involved Foxbat in his own title. So far, I have
>yet to latch onto those as well as the Marksman mini-series.
>
>If anyone can steer me in the right direction for the rest of these Works of
>Great Literature, I'd be mighty grateful.
Personally, I had no idea that this much comic material had been
released featuring the characters of the Champions Universe (at least, what
was *then* the Champions Universe, on which I gather the CTNM world is
loosely based). Before this thread started, I was only aware of the first
six-issue mini-series, and maybe a couple of later specials.
I'm also interested in finding out more about these comics.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:08:10 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
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At 04:18 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>At 03:04 PM 9/12/97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> There is that. But there's also the artistic purpose of putting out a
>>book of any type. I doubt that they would've put out the HSAs (with
>>apparent plans of doing more) if they weren't trying to expand the Hero
>>System as a whole (the books' stated purpose). Remember, these guys are
>>writers and gamers, not television network programming executives. They do
>>have souls. ;-]
>
>So does my Dad. I don't want him writing my gaming supplements, either. :/
>(NASCAR Hero, anyone?)
I'd buy it. Even if I didn't buy everything Hero as soon as I have the
money to do so, I'd probably buy it.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:19:56 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Scenario Ideas
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At 08:23 AM 9/15/97 -0500, John Stefanski wrote:
>Would anyone like to post their favorite scenario ideas/threads?
>
>I personally get some of my favorite smaller scenarios from cartoons. A
great source is "The New Adventures of Jonny Quest." I change the names and
mold some of the story ideas to the appropriate characters in our game.
I often do the same thing, but with "Darkwing Duck" and "Pinky & the
Brain." (Foxbat is the perfect villain to steal a scheme of the Brain's,
and some of the stuff tried by Tuskanini on DW would be grist for the
Director.)
Another thing I do is take a close look at the PCs' Hunters and
carefully consider *why* these people are after them. Often there's a
scenario idea there that can be drawn out. What I tend to do in this case
is have that particular Hunter not show up for a while, and then suddenly
make an appearance with a complex scheme intended to draw the PC to where
they want him.
I have a handful of original scenarios on my website (URL in my sig),
all drawn on the idea that certain villains and groups in the Champions
Universe just aren't adequately exploited in the published material. So
far I've featured the Asesinos, COIL, the Crusher Gang, the Cult of the Red
Banner, the Gweenies, Spectrum, and VIPER (twice, but neither time
centrally). The most popular ones seem to be the one featuring the
Asesinos (A Fine Place to Die) and Spectrum (A Frame of Many Colors),
possibly because these adventures specifically target the PCs for
extinction. I'm also taking requests....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Books in Champions Universe
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Sep 1997 12:34:33 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "VL" == Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com> writes:
VL> Except that in my experience, those in the game industry have a rather
VL> nebulous concept of "rights". Every source I've found indicates a
VL> total of two protections for literary creations: copyrights and
VL> trademarks.
To be more precice, copyright applies to the text and instances of artwork,
and tradmark applies to the likenesses of the characters. And yeah, any
comercial entity goes out of its way to make sure that both copyright and
trademark protection are in effect whenever possible.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:39:38 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extradimensional Bases
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Bob Greenwade was patient enough with me to write:
>At 09:01 PM 9/9/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>>The esteemed Mr. Greenwade wrote:
>>>At 03:28 PM 9/9/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>>> I'd go along with that YMMV. OTOH, the XDM could be held by the base
>>>itself, at least if it was a Gate (and possibly otherwise)
>>>
>>ooo... hmm... Um, but how would you use that Gate to get to the base?
>>(Personally, I'm not familiar with the *exact* mechanics of the Gate, I
>>don't own Mystic Masters.) I assume it would be very similar to the old JLA
>>satelite, with the teleporters, right?
>
> That's the idea, at least; and I do think that the published mechanics
>are at least similar. (I do happen to have access to my copy of Mystic
>Masters, but I'm too lazy to get up and go get it right at the moment.)
So, I assume it's an Area Effect (I think I saw this when it had
been discussed before), and would be thrown on several hexes of the base.
These hexes would be allocated to various cities across the globe (at least,
that's the way that the JLA used to do it), as per the mention of this in
the Base rules (BBB, p. 188, Floor Plans). But these were Teleporter
Booths, which were Invisible to everyone. The only reason the Leaguers
could find them is that they knew *exactly* where to look. Would this be
Invisibility bought for the Base, but with the Partial Coverage Limitation?
Also, I have found some posts from last semester about Gate.
Teleportation or, in this case, EDM, with Usable By Others, and Open at Both
Ends (-1/2 Limitation). Does this sound right? (Rat said it.) But John
Prins said it was Continuous, AE: Hex, UBO. Possibly with "Open at Both
Ends" and "Lasts an Extra Phase" as Limitations.
I dunno. Anybody used a version that worked particularly well for them?
- Jerry
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:57:38 +0000
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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On 15 Sep 97 at 8:08, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 04:18 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
> >
> >So does my Dad. I don't want him writing my gaming supplements, either. :/
> >(NASCAR Hero, anyone?)
>
> I'd buy it. Even if I didn't buy everything Hero as soon as I have the
> money to do so, I'd probably buy it.
Personally, I rather liked Autoduel Champions. <G>
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:01:45 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Books in Champions Universe
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At 08:56 AM 9/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On 9/14/97 4:18 PM, Vox Ludator! (ludator@mail.softfarm.com) Said:
>
>>> I can't even get a straight answer from Steve about whether the old CU
>>> is going to be supported in Hero Plus materials.
>>
>>Have we ever gotten a straight answer from Steve about ANYTHING? :]
>
>Steve P. Is a lawyer; he, and others of his kind, are genetically
>incapable of giving a straight answer.
>
now, now. . it's a defensive adaptation. . *l*
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:05:07 -0400
Subject: Hero System formula
Newsgroups: october.hero
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Can anyone out there tell me how to convert Hero STR to weight
lifted? I know that a 20 STR can lift 200 kb, but how much can a 31 STR
lift?
Similarly, how fast is SPD 8, 13" Running, with x4 noncombat
multiplier in MPH? How do I convert these numbers to real world
measurements?
--
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln1.esc.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:33:14 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: You know you're a Hero player when...(archive)
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Here is yet another one, sent to me by a friend.
...the girlfriend you used to consider a DNPC is now the ex-girlfriend
you consider a Hunted.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:52:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Scenario Ideas, etc.
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,15
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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I'd love to read people's scenario ideas. Good thinking, John Stefanski.
>
>Has anyone here ever designed themselves as they wish they were,
>based upon 250 points, just for fun?
>
>(If not, I'm going to feel really stupid.)
>
>Filksinger
>"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
I have not done this. When a friend of mine designed a villain team
based on my wife and me, I returned the favor. I created a villain based
not just on him, but also reflecting two of his PCs based on him, and his
family history.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:03:09 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 01:57 AM 9/16/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
>>On 15 Sep 97 at 8:08, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>>> At 04:18 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>>> >
>>> >So does my Dad. I don't want him writing my gaming supplements,
>either. :/
>>> >(NASCAR Hero, anyone?)
>>>
>>> I'd buy it. Even if I didn't buy everything Hero as soon as I have the
>>> money to do so, I'd probably buy it.
>>
>>Personally, I rather liked Autoduel Champions. <G>
>
> Yeah, I'm trying to find a copy locally....
I don't know. I thought of it as a better supplement to Car Wars than Hero.
That's why it's at home with my CW stuff. But, for the completist... I
can't say, "Boo," 'cause I own Champs, Champs II, and Champs III, along
with the first Enemies book.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:18:33 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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The esteemed (by me, anyway) Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Hm. I seem to have made the list of Esteemed Champions Minds. Maybe
>someday I'll be called a Champions Guru, and I'll start getting invited as
>Guest Speaker at someone's Con. Someday............ ;-)
>
Like I said, held in esteem by me. : ) I dunno. You've always posted
intelligently and politely. Your page kicks its own share of ass. Huh. I
thought only GURPS GMs were GURUs? And you'd probably have to publish some
of those adventures to do the Con thing (unless it were a small con...).
Keep trying, and I'll keep esteeming!
>>This being said, I have used really three different (but similar) systems,
>>which overlapped...
>>
>>1) Started as 1 xp/session, +1 if it was especially long or the players
>>were being really cool (kind of how I interpret playing well; if I had a
>>good time...).
>>This kind of morphed into...
>>2) 2 xp/session, +1 if we played all night, +1 if the individual players
>>were cool and/or funny, +1 for giving me cool drawings/backgrounds of the
>>characters/events (one of the guys does *lovely* Anime-esque art, and I've
>>had to cut that bonus back slightly).
>>3) Flat, 1 xp/session (my most recent game, with the most players.
>>
>>With 1, I was just starting out, and simply used the table in the back of
>>the book. At 2, some of the players complained that they weren't advancing
>>fast enough, and I didn't want unhappy players. Also, S. John Ross told me
>>of his "Bonus Starting Character Points" system (I don't think that's what
>>he calls it) that he uses in GURPS. He awards extra points *at character
>>creation* for things like: character sketch/full description (at least a
>>page, I believe); promise to do a character diary/log/chronicle, in
>>character; and some other things, I forgot, I'll ask John. 3 was my most
>>recent game, with the most players, and I didn't want to "play favorites" or
>>upset anyone. Plus, most of them were still exploring the system and the
>>novelty of just playing their characters in this "new" (to them) system was
>>enough.
>
> Tailoring the xp awards to the needs of the group is a very sensible
>idea that I admit has never occurred to me, and I've never seen it in print
>or on the list either (at least not that I can think of). We're so busy
>with applying YMMV to character creation and combat rules and campaign
>flavors that we forget that it can apply to something as obvious as
>experience point awards.
>
Ooohhh... Compliment! Thanks.
Oh, and I talked to S John about his "bonus" system. Like I said,
he uses it for GURPS, and only gives the points out (AFAIK) at character
creation. Said he got the basic premise from an old Roleplayer. Once I
look that up, I'll post something about it, too. (Unless everyone just
wants me to shut up... : )
Character Sketch: 5 pts
Ongoing Diary (750 wds/session minimum): 20 points
Tape Recording (taping each session, you provide the tapes them give
them up): 30 points
Character History: 1 point per 250 words.
Purchase and paint a miniature specifically for your PC: 5 points.
And he listed "Other Deals and Bribes" as "Variable," stating that
he once gave a player 10 points to bring pizza every session (the guy worked
at Papa John's). He also stated that the original article in Roleplayer
where he gleaned some of this (before he modified it) mentioned giving out 5
points for a player to work out ALL of the GURPS numbers ahead of time (long
jump distance, short jump distance, one-hand lift, etc. If you've played
GURPS, you know of what I speak).
And I, as I mentioned, tend to give out points (during play) for
things I like/find neat/cool. Drawings, character stories, one guy painted
a couple of miniatures (although I don't think he bought them especially for
the game), and other stuff. One guy mentioned dressing up in character
(he's a Private Dick), which'd be worth a point, or two if I get a photo.
This wouldn't work for all the characters (one of 'em has invisible
forearms). But I tend to extrapolate from examples I'm given.
Right. Long enough.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:38:30 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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Brain Wong wrote:
>Here's an idea I got this morning.
>
>An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
>more than just one defense.
> For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
>Flash Defence.
> Or a drain that can be stopped by Mental Defense and Power Defense.
>
> A falsh stopped by both Power Defense and Flash Defense.
>
>Etc...
> I can see it for certain kinds of magic effects, or even an energy
>or mental attack which targets the eyes...
>
> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
>It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
>than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
>
I had thought of something *similar* last night. How would one
model the following Power: I want a Mental Power that would reduce an
opponent's EGO, making them more susceptible to incoming Mental Attacks.
I came up with:
2d6 Drain (v.EGO), fade rate: per 5 minutes, Invisible Power Effects
(Sight + Hearing), No Range Penalty, Ranged. This eliminated the need for
BOECV, which I thought was a horrible way to go for this Power. Inhibitive
cost, and I don't think it would've modeled what I wanted very well.
Now my question is (to Mr. Wong, and others), how would I go about
having this power act on EGO DEF instead of POW DEF? Should I just assume
it defaults to the same value?
As I see it, because of AVLD, Flash DEF/EGO DEF/POW DEF all have the
same "value" as defenses. Obviously, normal PD or ED have a greater
"value," and then Resistant Defenses top the chart (ignoring, for now,
Hardened Defenses, as this can be applied to any of these).
Possibly, to simply switch the Defense a Power works against, there
would be no Limitation or Advantage. To "upgrade" by one, might be +1/4.
By two levels, +1/2?
To down grade, the inverse of the above Advantages (or whatever the
individual GM decided) should be fine. Maybe I'm getting this backwards?
And the above things I've written (which may or may not be at all
good) could be extrapolated from to acquire the mulit-Defense Limitation
value. Or not. My head hurts.
: )
- Jerry
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:15:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
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At 01:57 AM 9/16/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
>On 15 Sep 97 at 8:08, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> At 04:18 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>> >
>> >So does my Dad. I don't want him writing my gaming supplements,
either. :/
>> >(NASCAR Hero, anyone?)
>>
>> I'd buy it. Even if I didn't buy everything Hero as soon as I have the
>> money to do so, I'd probably buy it.
>
>Personally, I rather liked Autoduel Champions. <G>
Yeah, I'm trying to find a copy locally....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:22:52 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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At 01:57 AM 9/16/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
>> A Drain NND with Range is 25 pts/d6; an Energy Blast AVLD is 12.5
pts/d6.
>> Arguably, this is indeed (as I gather you're trying to say) too large of
>> a price gap.
>
>Considering that the Energy Blast, if the AVLD is vs Power Defense,
>has the same effectiveness as the Drain did before the NND, and the
>Drain with the NND is, assuming a relatively common defense, less
>effective that it was to begin with.
>
>I just thought of a good example. An NND could easily have Power
>Defense as the defense. Thus, a Drain with that NND is obviously less
>effective, for a +1 cost.
That depends on the specifics of the NND. If the Defense is having any
Power Defense at all, then it's probably less effective than the
AVLD/Drain, depending on how common Power Defense is. After all, just 1
pip would completely stop the NND, but would barely affect the AVLD/Drain
at all.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:34:03 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> (by way of Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com&>
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
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On 15 Sep 97 at 7:57, Bob Greenwade wrote:
I think this got sent directly to me when it should've been sent to the
list....
> At 01:34 AM 9/14/97 +0000, Filksinger wrote:
> >Which lead me to a question- who thinks that NNDs need refining?
> >
> >Consider a STUN Drain NND and an Energy Blast NND. The Drain pays the
> >same amount for NND that Energy Blast does, and gets the same effect.
> >OTOH, the Energy Blast NND is actually cheaper than a AVLD, which
> >would give you the same effect as the Drain did in the first place.
>
> Not exactly. An Energy Blast AVLD has range; a Drain does not (unless
> you use the Range Advantage).
Picky, picky.<G> Thanks for pointing that out, however. That will
help, if I ever do an in depth cost analysis.
> >Thus, Drain pays for a Advantage that could, logically, be considered
> >a Limitation, because it gives up the equivalent of an AVLD for a
> >NND.
>
> A Drain NND with Range is 25 pts/d6; an Energy Blast AVLD is 12.5 pts/d6.
> Arguably, this is indeed (as I gather you're trying to say) too large of
> a price gap.
Considering that the Energy Blast, if the AVLD is vs Power Defense,
has the same effectiveness as the Drain did before the NND, and the
Drain with the NND is, assuming a relatively common defense, less
effective that it was to begin with.
I just thought of a good example. An NND could easily have Power
Defense as the defense. Thus, a Drain with that NND is obviously less
effective, for a +1 cost.
<snip>
>
> Looking here at a modifier that crosses the line between an Advantage
> and a Limitation, then, like Charges (and END Battery from older editions)?
Yes. As the example I just added shows, sometimes NND costs a lot
more than it is worth.
I have a rule in my campaign that mirrored the "A Limitation that
doesn't limit is worth no points." In my campaign, an Advantage that
isn't an Advantage costs nothing. Thus, if an attack against which
the defense is rare takes NND with a more common defense, it cost
nothing.
<snip>
> >
> >Defense is:
> >
> >A partial defense +1 (As with an AVLD)
> >A total defense:
> > All the time +1/2 (As NND vs a power, like LS)
> > A normal roll +3/4 (Character makes roll, nothing happens)
> > A -5 roll +1
>
> I'm not sure I understand these last two entries.
I knew I forgot something. While typing this thing, it went through
three variations. One of the previous one's explained the above.
If I have an NND, where the defense is an EGO roll, then that would
be a common defense for comparison purposes (everyone has EGO), and
it would be worth a +3/4, in addition to the commoness modifier. It
is higher than A Total Defense: All the Time because the defense
doesn't work all the time.
Example: I have a DEX Drain Oil Slick, which is stopped completely vs
Acrobatics. That would take the +1/2 cost. If the target needed
Acrobatics, and also had to roll, that would be a +3/4. If the target
needed an Acrobatics roll at -5 to defend against the attack, then
the cost would be +1.
> >Defense is:
> >Much more common than normal defense -1
> >More common than normal defense -1/2
> >As common as normal defense +0
> >Less common than normal defense +1/2
> >Much less common than normal defense +1
>
> This is generally sensible, though I think I'd halve the modifiers
I made the modifiers this size because A) it matched the values for
NND and AVLD better and B) because if I didn't, I would still be
paying points for changes that I think should be Limitations rather
than Advantages.
> and
> change the argument of how common to what the average value is (if someone
> doesn't have it, the value is 0).
I think I'd need both. There should be a difference between NND vs
Life Support and NND vs Resistant PD. There should also be a
difference between NND vs an EGO roll and NND vs a STR roll, as, on
the average, characters have a higher STR roll.
> >If the power has multiple defenses, then the other defenses are taken
> >as standard limitations.
> [Examples clipped for some semblence of brevity]
> >What do you guys think?
>
> This is an interesting idea, if nothing else. It could use a little
> fleshing out and balancing, though -- but that's what we're here for! :-]
Considering that I created it when I was typing it, I think it came
out pretty well. I did need to chuck it three times and start over,
though. One time, I got the effect of the commoness of defenses
backwards, so that going from defense PD to defense Power Defense
would have been a Limitation, but the other way around would have
been an Advantage. Not good.
All in all, I haven't decided in favor of it, but I like it for a
first draft. Ultimate Advantages and Limitations book, anyone?
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: BCBattle@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Champion Comics
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On 97-09-16 10:24:59 EDT, jstefanski@internetmci.com (John Stefanski) wrote:
>If anyone is interested, I have the complete set of hero comics. This
includes:
>"Champions Mini-series" 1-6,
>"Champions (Unlimited?)" 1-12,
>"Champions Annual" 1, "
>"The League of Champions" 1-3
>"Captain Thunder & Blue Bolt" 1-4
>The Flare Mini-series,
>The Marksman Mini-series, and
>The Rose Mini-series.
I think there may be more to it than what you currently own. I myself have
copies of:
Champions Annual 1 and 2,
League of Champions 1-3, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 10
Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Comics) 1-4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10
Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt (Hero Graphics) 1 and 2
The Lady Arcane mini-series 1, 2 and 4 (of 5)
Marksman Annual 1
As for Flare:
Flare (Hero Comics) 1-3
Flare (Heroic) 1-10
Flare Adventures 1-3 and 12
Flare Annual 1
Flare First Edition 1, 2, 4, 6 and 10
And the Icicle mini-series: 1-4 (of 4)
And I'm pretty sure there was a Sparkplug special or two as well as a couple
of things that exclusively involved Foxbat in his own title. So far, I have
yet to latch onto those as well as the Marksman mini-series.
BCB
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:49:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
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> > And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
> >of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They aren't
> >really different NNDs.
>
> Modification: They're different, but not *that* different. The special
> effects that neutralize them overlap, making them at least marginally
> acceptable.
However, the one defense of hard armor cover would be enough for
any one of them. Each just takes more defense than is needed making each
less effective than they have to be.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:54:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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> Tailoring the xp awards to the needs of the group is a very sensible
> idea that I admit has never occurred to me, and I've never seen it in print
> or on the list either (at least not that I can think of). We're so busy
> with applying YMMV to character creation and combat rules and campaign
> flavors that we forget that it can apply to something as obvious as
> experience point awards.
I've had the standing offer in all of my campaigns for an extra XP
each session if the player comes with a diary/journal/report in character
of the previous game and/or 'off-screen' events. For really good ones
I'll give a bonus XP above the one.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:57:24 -0700 (PDT)
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> >
> >Uh, your sig has 404ed.
>
> I caught that the same time you did. It should now be corrected (below).
> Thanks for the note, though.
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
I'm not one to normally tute somebody else's horn, but there's
some real cool stuff on this page people. Like a diceless system for hero
and several other ideas. One complaint though. No pictures/drawings for
any of the characters. :(
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Extra Defense Limitation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:04:03 -0700 (PDT)
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Here's an idea I got this morning.
An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
more than just one defense.
For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
Flash Defence.
Or a drain that can be stopped by Mental Defense and Power Defense.
A falsh stopped by both Power Defense and Flash Defense.
Etc...
I can see it for certain kinds of magic effects, or even an energy
or mental attack which targets the eyes...
Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Champion Comics
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
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A lot of this stuff has been scanned in and put on the web by the
authors. I was looking at it last night, but it's bookmarked on
another machine...
Maybe I'll post the URL if I can find it tonight.
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Champion Comics (WEBSITE URL)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
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Ok; I found the stuff.
The Champions comic books website is:
http://www.heroicpub.com/
--
Rook
Also known as Arcady on #herochat and #Fuzionchat in DALnet IRC
herochat is a channel for discusion of the Hero system
Fuzionchat is for dicussion of Fuzion (C:NM, BGC, et all)
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:41:29 +0000
Subject: GM's Corner - Quests. Re: Scenario Ideas, etc.
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
Priority: normal
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> >Has anyone here ever designed themselves as they wish they were,
> >based upon 250 points, just for fun?
Having played Villains and Vigilantes I have made characters with
myself as the starting point, and then later converted them into
Champions. I was White Bear a brick wearing a mystical polar bear rug
that impowered me with various super powers.
> >(If not, I'm going to feel really stupid.)
> I have not done this. When a friend of mine designed a villain team
> based on my wife and me, I returned the favor. I created a villain based
> not just on him, but also reflecting two of his PCs based on him, and his
> family history.
I never turned my friends into villains, but they have been the
inspiration for a few supporting characters. I've used various school
yard bullies as the basis for villains from both elementary, and
secondary school. Having a real person as a model for a character
gives you something to keep in mind, and will make your characters
more realistic, and consistant.
As for scenario ideas most rpg adventures are event driven stories
where the heroes are given the task of setting things right. In these
stories something is wrong, or has gone wrong with the world, and it
is the heroes duty to restore the world to its proper order. The
injustice may be a long standing one like an oppressive feudal lord
the heroes must overthrow, or it maybe a recent problem like
capturing an escaped prisoner. Provided below is a list of general
tasks that are the key stone to many story plots. Event driven
stories are quest stories where the heroes are given a task to
accomplish.
Rescue: This usually involves saving a person, place, or thing from
imprisonment, destruction, or injury.
Guard: This involves protecting a person, place, or thing from
capture, destruction, or injury.
Hunt: This involves finding, and capturing, or killing a person, place
or thing.
Escape: This involves fleeing, or escaping a person, place, or thing.
Investigation: This involves exploring, researching, and studying a
person, place, or thing.
Prevent: This involves thwarting the efforts, and schemes of a
person, or thing.
Attack: This involves any attempt to weaken, or destroy an opponent.
Most stories can be event driven, or action based stories can be
classified in one of the proceeding quests.
comments are welcome, and additions are even more welcome.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes.
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:04:13 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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At 09:04 AM 9/16/97 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
>It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
>than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
>
Stopped by the SUM of the defenses, or the higher of the defenses?
If the latter, I'd say -1/4. If the former, -1.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <swhbfssg@pop.softnet.co.uk>
From: "MarkBarltrop" <Mark.Barltrop@kzin.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:30:59 +0100
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
Reply-to: tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk
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On 14 Sep 97 at 21:36, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> > Martial Arts- both Hwarang-do & Ninjitsu allow 2 different NNDs, Plus
> > there would be no reason why someone with those styles could not have
> > their own NND. For example if Scorpia, say, had either of those
> > styles instead of Generic Comic book, She would have 3 NNDs. (though
> > in her case all 3 would be stopped by solid armour).
>
> And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
> of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They
> aren't really different NNDs.
>
>
> > Although strictly speaking those 2 styles are illegal under the Hero
> > system (I'm assuming these weren't changed in USM), the fact that
> > they would both be stopped by solid armour might well explain the
> > exemption, and as someone else said earlier, allowing multiple NNDs
> > as long as one (fairly common) defence stops all of them could be the
> > way to go.
>
>
> Illegal? First I've heard anything to that effect. Explain.
>
(Well, since you asked so nicely:-))
I simply mean they're illegal because they allow you to have 2 NNDs.
(though in fact, it doesn't mean you can't use those styles, just
that you can't buy both NND manoeuvres .)
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk)
'What is it?'
'Its a wolf!'
'In a city? What does it find to eat?'
'Oh, why did you have to ask that?'
(Terry Pratchett,'Feet of Clay')
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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>
> At 09:04 AM 9/16/97 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>
> > Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
> >It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
> >than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
> >
> Stopped by the SUM of the defenses, or the higher of the defenses?
>
> If the latter, I'd say -1/4. If the former, -1.
>
Both. They're both valid concepts.
Course I imagine a power stopped by the sum of PD and ED would be more than
a -1 lim in most games.
But the sum of flash defense and power defense in many games might
not be very limiting.
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 13:32:56 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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On 9/16/97 11:04 AM, Brian Wong (rook@sanfran.infinex.com) Said:
>An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
>more than just one defense.
> For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
>Flash Defence.
> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
>It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
>than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
Lets say you have a 10 d6 EB, stopped by both ED & Flash Def.
You shoot me.
Do I...
A) Apply the larger of my Flash Def/ED
B) Add them together, then apply as a single DEF
C) Something else (split attack into two 1/2 attacks ala Red. Pen. )
Now lets say I have _no_ flash def. You got a limitation on your EB that
isn't very limiting against me, granted this is true many times, but I
think this could be abused. I think that the attack power should have to
first take AVLD.
Just my .02
The popularity of Windows surged in 1995, when |
Microsoft began shipping Windows 95, which | David A. Fair
included many innovations that the Macintosh | SDS International
had introduced 10 years earlier. | dfair@sdslink.com
- Reuters, Friday, July 18, 1997 |
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:00:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
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> > Illegal? First I've heard anything to that effect. Explain.
> >
> (Well, since you asked so nicely:-))
> I simply mean they're illegal because they allow you to have 2 NNDs.
> (though in fact, it doesn't mean you can't use those styles, just
> that you can't buy both NND manoeuvres .)
Actually, I'd have to disagree based on the fact of both NNDs
sharing a common defense to stop them with more defenses piled on top.
Both NNDs are less effective than they have to be. Nothing illegal here
at all.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:57:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:49 AM 9/16/97 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> > And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
>> >of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They aren't
>> >really different NNDs.
>>
>> Modification: They're different, but not *that* different. The special
>> effects that neutralize them overlap, making them at least marginally
>> acceptable.
>
> However, the one defense of hard armor cover would be enough for
>any one of them. Each just takes more defense than is needed making each
>less effective than they have to be.
No "However" about it, Tim; that's basically what I'm getting at.
(Though the hard armor requirement is for different locations IIRC, so
someone who had only partial coverage might be immune to one but not to
another, never minding the other defenses against each.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:57:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: NND & Variable special effect
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:49 AM 9/16/97 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> > And the excuse really is in that last statement. All of the NNDs
>> >of differing SFX use the same mechanics for damage purposes. They aren't
>> >really different NNDs.
>>
>> Modification: They're different, but not *that* different. The special
>> effects that neutralize them overlap, making them at least marginally
>> acceptable.
>
> However, the one defense of hard armor cover would be enough for
>any one of them. Each just takes more defense than is needed making each
>less effective than they have to be.
No "However" about it, Tim; that's basically what I'm getting at.
(Though the hard armor requirement is for different locations IIRC, so
someone who had only partial coverage might be immune to one but not to
another, never minding the other defenses against each.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:06:04 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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At 11:18 AM 9/16/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>The esteemed (by me, anyway) Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> Hm. I seem to have made the list of Esteemed Champions Minds. Maybe
>>someday I'll be called a Champions Guru, and I'll start getting invited as
>>Guest Speaker at someone's Con. Someday............ ;-)
>>
>Like I said, held in esteem by me. : ) I dunno. You've always posted
>intelligently and politely. Your page kicks its own share of ass. Huh. I
>thought only GURPS GMs were GURUs? And you'd probably have to publish some
>of those adventures to do the Con thing (unless it were a small con...).
>Keep trying, and I'll keep esteeming!
I dunno. Seems to me Shelley Chrystal Mactyre would be a good candidate
for a con guest, though Guest of Honor would be unlikely.
And Aaron Allston has been referred to as a Champions Guru for so long
that he appeared in the drawing on the cover of one of the Justice, Inc.
books wearing a T-shirt reading, "I am not a Champions Guru." (Also see
his home page; I don't have the exact URL handy, but I'm sure someone else
does. It has a drawing that has to be seen to be believed.)
>> Tailoring the xp awards to the needs of the group is a very sensible
>>idea that I admit has never occurred to me, and I've never seen it in print
>>or on the list either (at least not that I can think of). We're so busy
>>with applying YMMV to character creation and combat rules and campaign
>>flavors that we forget that it can apply to something as obvious as
>>experience point awards.
>>
>Ooohhh... Compliment! Thanks.
> Oh, and I talked to S John about his "bonus" system. Like I said,
>he uses it for GURPS, and only gives the points out (AFAIK) at character
>creation. Said he got the basic premise from an old Roleplayer. Once I
>look that up, I'll post something about it, too. (Unless everyone just
>wants me to shut up... : )
Please don't shut up on our account. This is very informative.
> Character Sketch: 5 pts
> Ongoing Diary (750 wds/session minimum): 20 points
> Tape Recording (taping each session, you provide the tapes them give
>them up): 30 points
> Character History: 1 point per 250 words.
> Purchase and paint a miniature specifically for your PC: 5 points.
How do these points compare to Character Points in Hero?
> And he listed "Other Deals and Bribes" as "Variable," stating that
>he once gave a player 10 points to bring pizza every session (the guy worked
>at Papa John's). He also stated that the original article in Roleplayer
>where he gleaned some of this (before he modified it) mentioned giving out 5
>points for a player to work out ALL of the GURPS numbers ahead of time (long
>jump distance, short jump distance, one-hand lift, etc. If you've played
>GURPS, you know of what I speak).
Hm. I wonder if I should implement a policy of awarding +1 xp per $5
slipped to the GM. (Dang, all of a sudden I'm actually *wishing* that my
players were powergamers!)
> And I, as I mentioned, tend to give out points (during play) for
>things I like/find neat/cool. Drawings, character stories, one guy painted
>a couple of miniatures (although I don't think he bought them especially for
>the game), and other stuff. One guy mentioned dressing up in character
>(he's a Private Dick), which'd be worth a point, or two if I get a photo.
>This wouldn't work for all the characters (one of 'em has invisible
>forearms). But I tend to extrapolate from examples I'm given.
I may go and discuss this with my players.
I'm also thinking of recording WAV files of the characters' quotes and
posting them to the Justifiers' section of my website. (I've been
practicing my voice as Rattler.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:35:11 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Drain to Zero
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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At 08:57 AM 9/16/97 -0700, you wrote:
>> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
>> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
>
> I'm not one to normally tute somebody else's horn, but there's
>some real cool stuff on this page people. Like a diceless system for hero
>and several other ideas. One complaint though. No pictures/drawings for
>any of the characters. :(
Thanks for the plug, Brian.
I echo the frowny-face for the lack of art (I can't even draw a straight
line using a ruler), that *may* change soon. And I am looking for
volunteers.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:56:40 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Bob Greenwade (still held in esteem) wrote:
> I dunno. Seems to me Shelley Chrystal Mactyre would be a good candidate
>for a con guest, though Guest of Honor would be unlikely.
I'd agree with that. I respect her Net-work very much, and have
greatly enjoyed all the work she has done. Again, GoH would probably be a
*published* author...
> And Aaron Allston has been referred to as a Champions Guru for so long
>that he appeared in the drawing on the cover of one of the Justice, Inc.
>books wearing a T-shirt reading, "I am not a Champions Guru." (Also see
>his home page; I don't have the exact URL handy, but I'm sure someone else
>does. It has a drawing that has to be seen to be believed.)
Ah. Yes, I seem to remember something about that. *I* was
referring to the defintion of GURU (I believe) coined by S John Ross: GURU -
Generic Universal Roleplaying Umpire. Obviously, you were referring to a
more generic guru. (more generic than Generic?)
>> Character Sketch: 5 pts
>> Ongoing Diary (750 wds/session minimum): 20 points
>> Tape Recording (taping each session, you provide the tapes them give
>>them up): 30 points
>> Character History: 1 point per 250 words.
>> Purchase and paint a miniature specifically for your PC: 5 points.
>
> How do these points compare to Character Points in Hero?
>
Well, the "average" heroic GURPS character is 100 pt, +40 for
Disadvantages, +5 for Quirks. Some "heroic" campaigns raise this up to
anywhere near double. And the "average" Supers game in GURPS runs 500,
+100, +5. Personally, I'd probably just leave the points where they were,
but for comparability, you may want to halve the values.
>>he once gave a player 10 points to bring pizza every session (the guy worked
>
> Hm. I wonder if I should implement a policy of awarding +1 xp per $5
>slipped to the GM. (Dang, all of a sudden I'm actually *wishing* that my
>players were powergamers!)
>
Well, an adventure module (written by S John) for Tales From the
Floating Vagabond (an out-of-print game system from Avalon Hill) lists XP
bonuses like: general award, 100 points; completion of the goals (without
too much nudging), 200 points; they paid for the beer and pizza, 50 points.
("Let's encourage this sort of blatant bootlicking...") I should point out
this one's a COMEDY game, though.
> I may go and discuss this with my players.
*GOOD* idea. This is something that could be abused, or at least
taken advantage of. Personally, I don't *need* two dozen character
sketches. After a while, they all kind of blend together, anyway. (Two of
my players are notorious for drawing. One does it just 'cause he loves it,
and the XP are BONUS. The other does it for the points. I've been forced
to cut back due to the large influx of paper from these guys.)
> I'm also thinking of recording WAV files of the characters' quotes and
>posting them to the Justifiers' section of my website. (I've been
>practicing my voice as Rattler.)
I think that's pretty cool. Me and my players aren't voice actors,
though.
- Jerry
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: Invisible attacks/beestings
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:02:57 GMT
Organization: Disorganized
Reply-To: samael@clark.net
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On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:15:15 +0100, Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
sent these symbols into the net:
>The reason that wasp and bee stings hurt is because they are acidic/alkaline
> (I can't remember which but you can take th esting awy by neutralising the
>sting..)
>
>And who says that my toxin is not strong that even a minute doesage of it
>is enough to kill?
> Remember poisons do not have to be injested to kill, contact with the skin
>is often enough.
>
Bees are acidic, Wasps 're alkaline, I know this from RL experience,
*never* let *anybody* put baking soda on a wasp sting. For me, if a wasp
sting is left alone, it fades < 1 hour, but with baking soda it swells up
and is there for 2-3 days.
**********************************************************************
*Lissajous patterns and windmills and don't ask about the connection.*
* Acid Rainbow: Semi-professional windmill-tilter. *
**********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 08:21:01 GMT
X-Sender: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk
From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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At 12:38 PM 16/9/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> I had thought of something *similar* last night. How would one
>model the following Power: I want a Mental Power that would reduce an
>opponent's EGO, making them more susceptible to incoming Mental Attacks.
> I came up with:
> 2d6 Drain (v.EGO), fade rate: per 5 minutes, Invisible Power Effects
>(Sight + Hearing), No Range Penalty, Ranged. This eliminated the need for
>BOECV, which I thought was a horrible way to go for this Power. Inhibitive
>cost, and I don't think it would've modeled what I wanted very well.
> Now my question is (to Mr. Wong, and others), how would I go about
>having this power act on EGO DEF instead of POW DEF? Should I just assume
>it defaults to the same value?
I'd have thought that you might have two ways to go about this. It would, as
always, depend on the special effects of your character, and how
specifically you thought of the susceptibility affecting the target.
I had two thoughts that might just be cheaper and more applicable than what
you have come up with.
1: You concentrate and mentally find the weaknesses in his mental defences,
this could be modelled by skill levels with ego attacks that cost END.
Obviously this would only affect attacks made by yourself.
2: You send pulses of mental energy that scramble his defences which is more
obviously suppress vs mental defence and would make the target vulnerable to
any incoming ego attacks etc.
The first would not even require a to hit roll to work.
>
>- Jerry
>
I gave an old villain of mine a similar style of power. I wanted a hard to
put down villain that would not initially worry the heroes, but become
increasingly dangerous. I linked his STR to a PD drain and an NND (padded
defences). The drain was limited by the number of STUN damage rolled by the
NND and the NND didn't actually do any damage at all, it was more of a
limiter than anything else! I was going through a phase of designing
exceptionally complex powers!!!!
When Bruiser met the heroes his punches were only 5 or 6D6 and the players
laughed at the amount of damage he was doing (I kept the drain and NND
secret and just told them that although there was no damage they felt a bit
tender where he had hit them, and a nasty bruise had begun to appear). They
thought that it was all special effects until I told them they were
beginning to take damage.....
Stephen
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:29:32 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Hero System formula
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Stephen B. Mann wrote:
>Can anyone out there tell me how to convert Hero STR to weight
>lifted? I know that a 20 STR can lift 200 kb, but how much can a 31 STR
>lift?
Okay, to get the lift capacity of STR 31, multiply the lift capacity
of STR 30 by the fifth root of 2. I know it sound complicated, but that's
the exponential relationship.
Ex. STR 30 -> 3200 kg lift
STR 31 -> (3200 * [5th rt 2]) -> ~3676 kg
STR 32 -> (3200 * [5th rt 2]squared) -> ~4222 kg
STR 33 -> (3200 * [5th rt 2]to the 3rd) -> ~4850 kg
STR 34 -> (3200 * [5th rt 2]to the 4th) -> ~5572 kg
STR 35 -> (3200 * [5th rt 2]to the 5th) -> 6400 kg
You'll notice that the fifth root of two to the fifth power is,
simply, 2. Which gives us the actual "book" lifting value of STR 35. Also
notice that I'm using the true exponential form, which means that STR 33
lifts slightly more than "book" value. (The book lists STR 33 as 1.5x STR
30, my method says it's ~1.51572x.)
> Similarly, how fast is SPD 8, 13" Running, with x4 noncombat
>multiplier in MPH? How do I convert these numbers to real world
>measurements?
>
SPD * inches noncombat movement * 2 * 5 * 60 / 1000 = km/h
Ex. Using the numbers you gave above...
8 (SPD) * 52 (inches of noncombat movement) * 2 (to translate inches
to meters)
* 5 (to translate 1 turn to 1 minute) * 60 (to translate 1
minute to 1 hour)
/ 1000 (to translate meters to kilometers) = 249.6 km/h
1 km = ~0.621 mi (my Physics book)
1 kg = ~2.2 lb (BBB, although mass and weight are not truly equivalent)
So, a STR 31 could lift ~8087 lb (~4 tons), and your speedster could
run ~155 mph.
Questions?
- Jerry
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:41:52 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it. They blow something
up at close range and before the explosion has a chance to reach them they
are out of harm's way. In fact, I have a player who has seen this and we
left the game hanging there. He wants to blow up an energy source and
outrace the explosion. In Champions terms how would this be done? Dive for
Cover just doesn't cut it. He would be at so many negatives that he would
never make the roll, but he is a speedster and much like the Flash should be
able to do it. Sure, I could just LET him do it, but then he might start
trying to pull that off during battles. How would this be done? I was
thinking maybe if he wants to pull that move off on a regular basis he
should buy 2 point levels with Dive For Cover to help out? Sounds the best
to me. Take it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
====================================================
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:45:05 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 07:41 AM 9/17/97 -0500, Sparx wrote:
>Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it. They blow something
>up at close range and before the explosion has a chance to reach them they
>are out of harm's way. In fact, I have a player who has seen this and we
>left the game hanging there. He wants to blow up an energy source and
>outrace the explosion. In Champions terms how would this be done? Dive for
>Cover just doesn't cut it. He would be at so many negatives that he would
>never make the roll, but he is a speedster and much like the Flash should be
>able to do it. Sure, I could just LET him do it, but then he might start
>trying to pull that off during battles. How would this be done? I was
>thinking maybe if he wants to pull that move off on a regular basis he
>should buy 2 point levels with Dive For Cover to help out? Sounds the best
>to me. Take it easy and talk at you later.
Yeah, I just checked the book for possibilities for this in the BBB, and
only two things give even a little help.
You could allow the character to Set beforehand, giving a +1. (This is
pushing the officiality of the rules a little, but every little bit helps.)
You could also allow the character to prepare for a bit of time, giving
+1 for every level on the Time Chart starting with a full Phase. I don't
think I'd let a character prepare for over a minute, though (for a +3).
So I think your approach is probably best. Let the character take
2-point Combat Skill Levels w/Diving For Cover Against Self-Triggered
Explosions (you may want to charge more, but this is what I'd say).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:50:45 +0000
Subject: Re: (Genre Question) Teen Aged Heroes. Is it a viable construct
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
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Teen age Superheroes are definitely viable. If the concept wasn't
viable there wouldn't be comics based on teams with exclusive
teenaged members.
In most campaigns teen supers should be treated in much the same way
as their older compatriots. Some adventures should focus on the fact
the team members are teenagers. A team of paranormal teenagers would
of course have more teenage enemies, and teenage allies than an adult
team. Another difference would be how the player characters spend
their off hours. The focus of most teenagers lives will be school,
friends, and family. Teenage superheroes will have to intergrate
their ordinary life with their heroic life. Teenage heroes are most
likely more daring, and less careful than older superheroes.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes.
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:56:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Sparx wrote:
> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it. They blow something
> up at close range and before the explosion has a chance to reach them they
> are out of harm's way. In fact, I have a player who has seen this and we
> left the game hanging there. He wants to blow up an energy source and
> outrace the explosion. In Champions terms how would this be done? Dive for
> Cover just doesn't cut it. He would be at so many negatives that he would
> never make the roll, but he is a speedster and much like the Flash should be
> able to do it. Sure, I could just LET him do it, but then he might start
> trying to pull that off during battles. How would this be done? I was
> thinking maybe if he wants to pull that move off on a regular basis he
> should buy 2 point levels with Dive For Cover to help out? Sounds the best
> to me.
Levels with Dive For Cover seem like a good way to handle this. This sort
of thing is why speedsters generally have those ridiculously high DEX
scores. I'd be curious to hear more specific numbers involved. What is the
speedster's DEX? How big an explosion does he want to outrun?
The Dive for Cover approach simulates things just fine for a small
explosion, at least. With extemely large explosions, though, I can see how
there might be some difficulties. A good speedster should be able to
outrun the shockwave of a nuclear explosion (but maybe not the light &
other radiation), but it gets awfully difficult to make a Dive for Cover
over many miles. The problem is with the explosion advantage, which treats
the explosions as instantaneous. As a GM, I might arbitrarily assign a
rate to the explosion, but that's not exactly sticking to the letter of
the rules. I suppose you could always stick a -1/4 limitation on large
bombs, "Explosion spreads at 10"/ segment" (or whatever), but it's a
pretty questionable limitation, especially seeing how plenty of explosive
things have been written up and I've never seen anyone bother with a rate
of explosion. Has anyone dealt with this before?
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:30:40 -0400
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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>>Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it. They blow something
>>up at close range and before the explosion has a chance to reach them they
>>are out of harm's way. In fact, I have a player who has seen this and we
>>left the game hanging there. He wants to blow up an energy source and
>>outrace the explosion. In Champions terms how would this be done? Dive for
>>Cover just doesn't cut it. He would be at so many negatives that he would
>>never make the roll, but he is a speedster and much like the Flash should be
>>able to do it. Sure, I could just LET him do it, but then he might start
>>trying to pull that off during battles. How would this be done? I was
>>thinking maybe if he wants to pull that move off on a regular basis he
>>should buy 2 point levels with Dive For Cover to help out? Sounds the best
>>to me. Take it easy and talk at you later.
>>Sparx
>
> Well, as I see it, you have a few choices which will allow you to
>adjudicate this possibility.
>
>1) Set a DEX for the exploding device, and then allow the character to
>attempt a full phase of running to escape the totallity of the blast range
>of the explosion. If he doesn't make it, maybe he is in the outer rings,
>and takes much less damage, and is thrown clear the rest of the way.
>
>2) Give the character a bonus to his Dive For Cover roll for every inch he
>has in his movement power above and beyond the distance he needs to cover
>to be safe.
>
>3) This is the most complicated/convoluted method. Divide the character's
>movement power by 6; then apply a -1 penalty for every X number of hexes
>away the character must reach, X being the character's movement divided by
>6. This represents the fact that it is easier for the character to travel
>longer distances by making his dive for cover ranges proportional to the
>number of times faster than a normal human he is.
>
>
>Hope one or all of these helps,
>David Miller
>
>
>PS - Yes, if he decides to make this a regular thing, i would require him
>to begin purchase of Dive For Cover skill levels (though I _might_ be kind
>enough to allow that purchase within his Speed Powers EC or his Speedster
>Tricks MP....).
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:40:09 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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Steve McGinness wrote:
>Jeremiah Driscoll (that's me) wrote:
>> I had thought of something *similar* last night. How would one
>>model the following Power: I want a Mental Power that would reduce an
>>opponent's EGO, making them more susceptible to incoming Mental Attacks.
>> I came up with:
>> 2d6 Drain (v.EGO), fade rate: per 5 minutes, Invisible Power Effects
>>(Sight + Hearing), No Range Penalty, Ranged. This eliminated the need for
>>BOECV, which I thought was a horrible way to go for this Power. Inhibitive
>>cost, and I don't think it would've modeled what I wanted very well.
>> Now my question is (to Mr. Wong, and others), how would I go about
>>having this power act on EGO DEF instead of POW DEF? Should I just assume
>>it defaults to the same value?
>
>I had two thoughts that might just be cheaper and more applicable than what
>you have come up with.
>
Um. I hadn't mentioned it, but the Power was in a Multipower anyway... but
thanks for keeping point savings in mind! : )
>1: You concentrate and mentally find the weaknesses in his mental defences,
>this could be modelled by skill levels with ego attacks that cost END.
>Obviously this would only affect attacks made by yourself.
>
Not a bad suggestion, but wouldn't that be more appropriate as a Find
Weakness Talent? Concentrate to *find the weaknesses* : ) Sounds like it
to me...
>2: You send pulses of mental energy that scramble his defences which is more
>obviously suppress vs mental defence and would make the target vulnerable to
>any incoming ego attacks etc.
>
But this still has the problem (in my mind) of being based on OCV/DCV to
hit. Of course, that was still a problem with the Power I had devised...
Now, extra levels to hit is nice, but I wanted to effect the EGO, more than
the Mental Defense. See, if I weaken their Defenses, that'll help, but only
on targets with those Defenses (few and far between, and usually they are
Mentalists, with high EGOs anyway). If it directly affects the EGO, it'll
work against peons, too, causing them to be more easily controlled, mind
scanned, mind read, etc.
I thank you very much for the suggestions. Perhaps I will use them for
another character.
- Jerry
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
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>
> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it. They blow something
> up at close range and before the explosion has a chance to reach them they
> are out of harm's way. In fact, I have a player who has seen this and we
> left the game hanging there. He wants to blow up an energy source and
> outrace the explosion. In Champions terms how would this be done? Dive for
> Cover just doesn't cut it. He would be at so many negatives that he would
> never make the roll, but he is a speedster and much like the Flash should be
> able to do it. Sure, I could just LET him do it, but then he might start
> trying to pull that off during battles. How would this be done? I was
Well, judge it by drama.
If he's doing a great heroic deed, let him pull it off by some miracle.
If his motivations are unheroic, have him get caught in the explosion.
Or make it an implosion that sucks him in.
I always set things up so heroic deeds get their reward, wheras
unheroic ones get hit with a harsh reality. This helps enforce the genre.
--
Rook
Also known as Arcady on #herochat and #Fuzionchat in DALnet IRC
herochat is a channel for discusion of the Hero system
Fuzionchat is for dicussion of Fuzion (C:NM, BGC, et all)
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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>>>>> "S" == Sparx <psansone@i1.net> writes:
S> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it.
Dive for Cover.
Nothing in the description requires "leaping" movement; *any* movement
power may be used.
And buy a bunch of skill levels to offset the penalties.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:04:17 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (rather long, sorry)
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Bob Greenwade (showing impressive patience with me) wrote:
>At 12:56 PM 9/17/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> My reasoning precisely.
Well, then. We agree. Hmm.
>> Ah. Yes, I seem to remember something about that. *I* was
>>referring to the defintion of GURU (I believe) coined by S John Ross: GURU -
>>Generic Universal Roleplaying Umpire. Obviously, you were referring to a
>>more generic guru. (more generic than Generic?)
>
> Uh... yeah. :-]
>
Yet another dead end in the conversation... <sigh> Well, let's see
what's next...
>>>> Character Sketch: 5 pts
>>>> Ongoing Diary (750 wds/session minimum): 20 points
>>>> Tape Recording (taping each session, you provide the tapes them
>>>>give them up): 30 points
>>>> Character History: 1 point per 250 words.
>>>> Purchase and paint a miniature specifically for your PC: 5 points.
>
> For the sketch, history, and miniature, I might go with the listed
>values if done at the outset. For the diary or recording, or for sketches
>or miniatures done after the beginning of the campaign (or the character's
>debut), I think I'd divide the values by 5. 20 points seems like an awful
>lot to award someone for keeping a journal (unless the 20 points was for
>the entire, completed journal -- but then where does the tape recording fit
>into that?).
>
S John did all of this at the outset. I don't even know how many XP
he gave out during the game. The journal was an ongoing thing, always done
in character. And the tapes, well, I guess there's the $$$ cost, and the
fact that you'd wind up with every little character bit (and a lot of OOC
stuff in my games). Easier to keep track of things for the GM. (Oh, that
NPC has a weird accent? Almost forgot... Oh, that PC insulted the King
back then? woo-hoo)
My brother did a journal for one of John's fantasy games. He played
a religious nut, and constantly Capitalized words in the Middle of his
sentences, seemingly at Random... like I said, in character. And the
character's perceptions of what went on, and his inner thoughts, would not
necessarily be what *actually* happened. This is also a good tool to see
how the PC is thinking (not just the player) and how to draw him further
into his story and plotlines.
Plus, the tapes might make interesting keepsakes. Like you said
about the WAV files for your site, just *think* of all the WAV files you
might get from a particularly inspired night of gaming!
>> Well, an adventure module (written by S John) for Tales From the
>>Floating Vagabond (an out-of-print game system from Avalon Hill) lists XP
>>bonuses like: general award, 100 points; completion of the goals (without
>>too much nudging), 200 points; they paid for the beer and pizza, 50 points.
>>("Let's encourage this sort of blatant bootlicking...") I should point out
>>this one's a COMEDY game, though.
>
> I've seen that game, but not examined it closely.
> I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
>systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
>for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
>
I've only played Paranoia once, and all I got rewarded with was
Death. Constant, unstoppable Death. Death for being in character. Death
for being out of character. Death for being loyal to the Computer. Death
for being disloyal to the computer. <sigh>
Tales From the Floating Vagabond has an interesting XP system (well,
bits of it). The example I gave above was (AFAIK) only used by S John Ross
in his module (Weirder Tales... A Space Opera). The other XP rules are
pretty much standard, for good roleplaying and difficulty of the adventure.
The levels of difficulty are slightly humorous (you get 50-100 XP for a
"fairly easy adventure", but 300-500 XP for "An adventure that is actually a
threat to the very fabric of reality due to its sheer toughness", and 1000
XP for "Destroying the Universe"). The system itself is somewhat laughable;
not because of the comedy, if you get my meaning. It's not so much a rules
system as a guideline. A terribly unedited guideline.
Oh, one other thing about TF2V: you also get 1 XP for each
"Sawbuck" (that's 5 Bucks) retained at the end of the adventure. I've taken
this to mean that the Bartender (hey, that's what the GM is called in there,
honest) is supposed to "arrange" for the characters to be broke most of the
time... It's also a good plot hook. (Beginning of the session: Bartender
sez, "Here's your tab." Patrons (that's the players) say, "uh oh" and then
get hired to do something fairly near impossible, but also hopefully funny.)
Most other systems I've played (not many) give XP for either combat
or roleplaying. With GURPS, it's roleplaying, although some GMs...
With D&D, everyone's familiar with XP earned from: kill the monster,
take its treasure. This is all fine and well. There are also optional XP
awards, which differ by class. Mages get XP based on spell levels cast.
Thieves get XP for using their "thief abilities" (I think). Clerics get XP
bonuses for casting spells that further their God's cause. And Fighters...
get even more XP for killing things, based on the "Hit Dice" of the monster
slain. There's also another optional bonus, this one for good roleplaying.
One late night session, I earned the highest XP bonus for
roleplaying possible, after a taunting speech made down the stairs of a
dungeon to a Priest of Bane who was hanging around with a Green Dragon (I
was a 1st level Priest of Lathander, the other PCs were also 1st level).
The highest possible total: 50 XP!!! For those of you who've played D&D,
you know how much that is...
> I think this should max out at about 3-4 pics, depending on how many
>aspects the character can have. Taking Ms. Steele from my own campaign as
>an example, she'd probably do well with a facial portrait, a full-length
>illo in a suit for when she goes to court, and another full-length in what
>she wears in action (I might accept a bikini picture to increase website
>traffic).
>
Okay, I'm back on topic (was I off?). I have been very generous with XP for
drawings, mostly because I *love* this one guy's stuff. I'd prefer to start
getting background from the players, but they don't seem to be writers...
Also, I developed this "XP for extras" rule on-the-fly, while I was running
campaigns... I really didn't envision it blooming like it has.
- Jerry
From: "Tivaak" <Tivaak@usa.net>
Subject: Justice, Inc. ?
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:20:42 -0500
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Hi all,
i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
information.
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:40:50 -0400 (EDT)
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There is an Optional Rule that is in the same ballpark: Champions Deluxe,
page 156, under Optional Combat Maneuvers, there is
"Rolling with a Punch". You lower your CV to do it and take only half damage
from the attack. You could just use this as Rolling with an Area Effect
attack, or tweak the maneuver to adjust for size of blast and speed
of movement. Speedsters probably _should_ be better at this than most
others.
Daniel Pawtowski
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion (and Speedster notes)
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>>>>> "DP" == Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> writes:
DP> There is an Optional Rule that is in the same ballpark: Champions
DP> Deluxe, page 156, under Optional Combat Maneuvers, there is "Rolling
DP> with a Punch".
"Roll with Punch" has been around for a long time.
DP> You lower your CV to do it and take only half damage from the attack.
But at the same time you suffer more knockback.
DP> You could just use this as Rolling with an Area Effect attack, or tweak
DP> the maneuver to adjust for size of blast and speed of movement.
Enh... not when Dive for Cover already does it. In fact, Dive for Cover
works better because it is based on the size of the area (actually, how far
the character must move to get out) whereas Roll with Punch is tied to the
damage classes of the attack. Using Roll with Punch you wind up with a
backwards situation where a massive, one-hex area blast is harder to get
out of than a smaller attack with a greater radius.
DP> Speedsters probably _should_ be better at this than most others.
Only if you insist that speedsters must have a high Dexterity, which most
really do not. They have tremendous levels of movement powers, and some
"weird" powers for stupid speedster tricks (Change Environment is good for
this), but Dexterity and Speed stats do not need to be particularly high.
In fact, if you keep Dexterity and especially Speed down, you use less END
per Turn. That means you can get away with less base Endurance and a
smaller Recovery. And all that adds up to more points available for the
neat things that a Speedster can do.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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On 17 Sep 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "S" == Sparx <psansone@i1.net> writes:
>
> S> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it.
>
> Dive for Cover.
>
> Nothing in the description requires "leaping" movement; *any* movement
> power may be used.
>
> And buy a bunch of skill levels to offset the penalties.
>
I think most people are in agreement that Dive for Cover can simulate
outrunning an explosion. The problem (as I see it, anyway) is with
explosions taking place over extremely large areas. A Dive for 5 or 10
inches should be pretty easy for a high-DEX speedster, especially with
those skill levels. But just try diving a couple of *miles* with a -1 per
1" penalty (have I got that right?)
Those large explosions, I think, just call for a GM special effects call.
I can certainly think of some effects built with an explosion advantage
that would be genuinely instantaneous, but a typical bomb might have a
shockwave that would spread out at a speed which a hero might outrun.
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
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On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Tivaak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
> sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
> system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
> information.
Justice Inc (or JI) is a Hero System sourcebook for running games set in
the Pulp Ficiton era (~1920-1935). The book has been out of print for
sometime, and uses 3rd Ed rules. Other than that, it's a nice sourcebook
and worth having.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 22:13:09
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
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On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:20:42 -0500, Tivaak wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
>sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
>system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
>information.
Probably my all-time favorite of the pre-4th eddition Champions derivitives. Lot's of
neat "pulp-era" source material. The game system was slightly altered from core 3rd
eddition rules (as was typical of Hero publications of the time) but anyone who knows
the current system will have no problems with it. All of the "wierd talents" can be
duplicated using Hero 4 powers.
Well worth having.
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:43:24 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
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Tivaak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web
> page for
> sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the
> Hero
> system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
> information.
I have one answer to all of your questions above: YES!
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
Subject: New PBEM campaign
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:50:55 +0100
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I am going to have a go at starting my own PBEM. This is something that I
have never done before, and the whole thing is going to be highly
experimental!
I am looking for players with time to spare, patience (I just told you... I
haven't doen this before!), and as much expertise as possible.
Attached are the campaign guidelines and a brief history of the campaign
world.
All questions answered, all players welcome....
(Advice from practicing PBEM GM's also appreciated!!!)
TTFN from Chris!
http://www.lynch1.demon.co.uk
Attachment Converted: "g:\eudora\attach\History.txt"
Attachment Converted: "g:\eudora\attach\Campaign.txt"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:59:55 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Brian Wong wrote:
> An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
> more than just one defense.
> For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
> Flash Defence.
[...]
> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
> It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
> than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
Why? If anything the opposite would be the case... with Flash you're
adding another defense whose commonality is comparable to the original,
whereas with EB the new defense is significantly less common than the
original defense.
Also, it's not clear whether you mean that you'd subtract Max(ED,Power
Defense) or ED + Power Defense from the EB's damage. In the former case, I
don't think this is worth a Limitation at all... it just isn't enough to
merit a -1/4.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <swhbfssg@pop.softnet.co.uk>
From: "MarkBarltrop" <Mark.Barltrop@kzin.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:04:55 +0100
Subject: Re: Hero System formula
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On 15 Sep 97 at 23:05, Stephen B. Mann wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone out there tell me how to convert Hero STR to weight
> lifted? I know that a 20 STR can lift 200 kb, but how much can a 31
> STR lift?
(Actually 20 STR can lift 400 Kg)
25* (2^ (STR/5)) Kg
> Similarly, how fast is SPD 8, 13" Running, with x4 noncombat
> multiplier in MPH? How do I convert these numbers to real world
> measurements?
(SPD*Move*NCM)*0.6 KPH (or *0 .37 MPH)
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk)
'What is it?'
'Its a wolf!'
'In a city? What does it find to eat?'
'Oh, why did you have to ask that?'
(Terry Pratchett,'Feet of Clay')
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:58:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
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On 17 Sep 97 at 13:20, Tivaak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
> sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
> system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
> information.
In the old days where every genre had its own variation of the Hero
System, Justice, Inc. was the rules for 1920-30s pulp fiction. It has
a good source book and some excellent adventure ideas. With some
tweaking and a lot of work on my part, The Coates Shambler became
probably the best adventure I have ever run. The work came from using
the most difficult adventure options.
All in all, I'd say it was one of the best things Hero Games ever put
out. If you are going to use 4th Edition Hero System rules, however,
you might want to look at the Hero System Almanac I. It contained
conversion rules to cover the odd "pulp"-style psychic powers from
JI. Without JI, however, those rule updates are no more than mildly
interesting, whereas without the updates JI is still one of the best
things Hero Games ever did.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:56:09 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
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At 05:28 PM 9/17/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Tivaak wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
>> sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
>> system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
>> information.
>
>Justice Inc (or JI) is a Hero System sourcebook for running games set in
>the Pulp Ficiton era (~1920-1935). The book has been out of print for
>sometime, and uses 3rd Ed rules. Other than that, it's a nice sourcebook
>and worth having.
Rather than give my own reply, I decided to just give an echo to what
Michael says here. :-)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:53:16 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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At 12:56 PM 9/17/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>Bob Greenwade (still held in esteem) wrote:
>> I dunno. Seems to me Shelley Chrystal Mactyre would be a good candidate
>>for a con guest, though Guest of Honor would be unlikely.
> I'd agree with that. I respect her Net-work very much, and have
>greatly enjoyed all the work she has done. Again, GoH would probably be a
>*published* author...
My reasoning precisely.
>> And Aaron Allston has been referred to as a Champions Guru for so long
>>that he appeared in the drawing on the cover of one of the Justice, Inc.
>>books wearing a T-shirt reading, "I am not a Champions Guru." (Also see
>>his home page; I don't have the exact URL handy, but I'm sure someone else
>>does. It has a drawing that has to be seen to be believed.)
> Ah. Yes, I seem to remember something about that. *I* was
>referring to the defintion of GURU (I believe) coined by S John Ross: GURU -
>Generic Universal Roleplaying Umpire. Obviously, you were referring to a
>more generic guru. (more generic than Generic?)
Uh... yeah. :-]
>>> Character Sketch: 5 pts
>>> Ongoing Diary (750 wds/session minimum): 20 points
>>> Tape Recording (taping each session, you provide the tapes them
give
>>>them up): 30 points
>>> Character History: 1 point per 250 words.
>>> Purchase and paint a miniature specifically for your PC: 5 points.
>>
>> How do these points compare to Character Points in Hero?
>>
> Well, the "average" heroic GURPS character is 100 pt, +40 for
>Disadvantages, +5 for Quirks. Some "heroic" campaigns raise this up to
>anywhere near double. And the "average" Supers game in GURPS runs 500,
>+100, +5. Personally, I'd probably just leave the points where they were,
>but for comparability, you may want to halve the values.
For the sketch, history, and miniature, I might go with the listed
values if done at the outset. For the diary or recording, or for sketches
or miniatures done after the beginning of the campaign (or the character's
debut), I think I'd divide the values by 5. 20 points seems like an awful
lot to award someone for keeping a journal (unless the 20 points was for
the entire, completed journal -- but then where does the tape recording fit
into that?).
>>>he once gave a player 10 points to bring pizza every session (the guy
worked
>>
>> Hm. I wonder if I should implement a policy of awarding +1 xp per $5
>>slipped to the GM. (Dang, all of a sudden I'm actually *wishing* that my
>>players were powergamers!)
>>
> Well, an adventure module (written by S John) for Tales From the
>Floating Vagabond (an out-of-print game system from Avalon Hill) lists XP
>bonuses like: general award, 100 points; completion of the goals (without
>too much nudging), 200 points; they paid for the beer and pizza, 50 points.
>("Let's encourage this sort of blatant bootlicking...") I should point out
>this one's a COMEDY game, though.
I've seen that game, but not examined it closely.
I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
>> I may go and discuss this with my players.
> *GOOD* idea. This is something that could be abused, or at least
>taken advantage of. Personally, I don't *need* two dozen character
>sketches. After a while, they all kind of blend together, anyway. (Two of
>my players are notorious for drawing. One does it just 'cause he loves it,
>and the XP are BONUS. The other does it for the points. I've been forced
>to cut back due to the large influx of paper from these guys.)
I think this should max out at about 3-4 pics, depending on how many
aspects the character can have. Taking Ms. Steele from my own campaign as
an example, she'd probably do well with a facial portrait, a full-length
illo in a suit for when she goes to court, and another full-length in what
she wears in action (I might accept a bikini picture to increase website
traffic).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:01:23 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 04:41 PM 9/17/97 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>I think most people are in agreement that Dive for Cover can simulate
>outrunning an explosion. The problem (as I see it, anyway) is with
>explosions taking place over extremely large areas. A Dive for 5 or 10
>inches should be pretty easy for a high-DEX speedster, especially with
>those skill levels. But just try diving a couple of *miles* with a -1 per
>1" penalty (have I got that right?)
Yowtch. Was that the original question???
>Those large explosions, I think, just call for a GM special effects call.
>I can certainly think of some effects built with an explosion advantage
>that would be genuinely instantaneous, but a typical bomb might have a
>shockwave that would spread out at a speed which a hero might outrun.
Hm. I might go with a GM Special Effects call, or perhaps an Advantage
could be given to movement that Dive For Cover takes normal Range
Modifiers. (Say, a +1/4 Modifier for that? Is that too low? Or should
some other, similar factors be added to such an Advantage?)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:09:47 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Hero System formula
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Mark Baltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk) wrote:
>On 15 Sep 97 at 23:05, Stephen B. Mann wrote:
>> Can anyone out there tell me how to convert Hero STR to weight
>> lifted? I know that a 20 STR can lift 200 kb, but how much can a 31
>> STR lift?
>(Actually 20 STR can lift 400 Kg)
>25* (2^ (STR/5)) Kg
>> Similarly, how fast is SPD 8, 13" Running, with x4 noncombat
>> multiplier in MPH? How do I convert these numbers to real world
>> measurements?
>(SPD*Move*NCM)*0.6 KPH (or *0 .37 MPH)
>
Okay, so you actually figured out the equation for STR. Which makes
it look more elegant than mine. : P
But how do *you* feel about the fact that the formula value and book
value of, say, 33 STR differ? Why doesn't Hero use a straight exponential?
Too much math? That's like closing the barn door after the horse is already
gone.
- Jerry
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:15:45 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
<Other stuff deleted for security reasons>
>
> I've seen that game, but not examined it closely.
> I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
> systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get
> rewarded for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
Reward? Yea, right. I suppose you can give them the hope that they are
favored...
-Mark
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:23:36 -0400
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Filksinger sez, "An NND could easily have Power Defense as the defense."
I say, in many campaigns, Power Defense is not reasonably common.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:24:44 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Brian Wong wrote:
>> An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
>> more than just one defense.
>> For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
>> Flash Defence.
>
>[...]
>
>> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
>> It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
>> than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
>
>Why? If anything the opposite would be the case... with Flash you're
>adding another defense whose commonality is comparable to the original,
>whereas with EB the new defense is significantly less common than the
>original defense.
>
Well, in the last paragraph, he said "Drain," not "EB." (I know he said EB
at the beginning...) A Flash v. Flash Def + Power Def would be very
slightly limited (in my games), but a Drain that was defended by "both ED
and Power defense" would be *severely* limited. Most Drains I have done are
less dice than an EB.
In an "average" campaign, ED 20 and EB 10d6 are not uncommon. That
means an average of 15 STUN. For a 10d6 Drain (with this Limitation, works
v. ED) that would also mean an average of 15 CP. For a 5d6 Drain (a more
common, I think), that means a *max* of 10 CP. That's pretty limiting.
>Also, it's not clear whether you mean that you'd subtract Max(ED,Power
>Defense) or ED + Power Defense from the EB's damage. In the former case, I
>don't think this is worth a Limitation at all... it just isn't enough to
>merit a -1/4.
>
Yes, possibly the least Limiting of these examples would be an EB
that worked against ED+Power Def. Most characters don't have it... I
probably wouldn't give a Limitation (maybe -1/4, because *not* giving one
means they won't take that SFX).
Now, along these lines... Some games have instated a base Mental
Defense. Like PD is based on STR, and ED on CON, these games have MD based
on EGO (EGO/5) and give these first few points free. When buying additional
Mental Defenses, there is no "bonus" and it simply costs 1/1. Would this be
viable to do for Power Defense as well, perhaps based off of BODY? Flash
Defense based off of INT or DEX? It would be best for campaigns where these
attacks were more common, and more powerful than "average." (Plus, Flashes
would become *much* more underpowered using these rules...)
- Jerry
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Date: 18 Sep 1997 00:25:24 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Hm. I might go with a GM Special Effects call, or perhaps an Advantage
BG> could be given to movement that Dive For Cover takes normal Range
BG> Modifiers. (Say, a +1/4 Modifier for that? Is that too low? Or should
BG> some other, similar factors be added to such an Advantage?)
Nah. Look, a mile-wide explosion is a plot device. Getting *out* of a
mile-wide explosion is a plot device. I mean, seriously, you want to make
characters pay for an ability they are going to *MAYBE* use *ONCE*?
Besides, a campaign that can "afford" AoEs with radii of more than 6" or so
can easilly afford a handful of skill levels that can be applied to Dive
for Cover rolls.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:56:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Some bombs have fuzes or timers, giving speedsters plenty of time to
escape.
Another idea might be to purchase Range Skill Levels with Dive for Cover.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:56:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Reply-To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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> I've seen that game, but not examined it closely.
> I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
> systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
> for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
There's XP in Paranoia? I didn't think you were supposed to get
through more than one session with a character. {grin}
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:03:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc.
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Justice, Inc. is a great game. Think Indiana Jones, the Shadow, and Doc
Savage, baby. It was really an agent level game. The Shadow and Doc
Savage had operatives, you know. My 4th edition JI, "Pulp Hero," is the
most popular local game.
I like injecting some Cthulu horror into it, too.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:15:42 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Mark Lemming wrote:
>>Superman flying high above the streets of Metropolis sees bad
>> guys with his super-vision about to shoot innocents, he swoops down
>> from 400 meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200 penalty
>> with a standard Dive for Cover.)
>>
>For Superman in the example above:
>He sees bad guys about to shoot innocents.
>He decides not to use his heat vision to turn the bad guys to ash.
>He finishes his half move and then dives the 1".
>
No, I don't think so. I thought it was something like this. Segment 12,
they act and everything. Segment 1, the bad guys had held their Action, and
decide to use it to shoot the innocent. Supes didn't hold his Action. The
only way for him to reach them is to... Dive for Cover. At a -200 penalty.
You can't Abort to a Movement Power, and even if you could, that's your only
action. You couldn't Abort to a Move, and then a Dive for Cover.
- Jerry
ps - If Supes *was* right there, he wouldn't even have to "Dive" the 1". He
could just as easily "Dive" for 0.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:20:00 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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John P Weatherman wrote:
>In the PBEM I'm currently involved with, we are currently using Mental
>Defence
>and Power Defence as figured characteristics (EGO/5 and BODY/5
>respectively).
>This is obviously a VERY House thing to do, however drains are mental
>powers
>are both very common in the campaign and it seemed reasonable. I don't
>know
>about Flashes though. As you point out, they are already underpowered
>and, at
>least in this campaign, not all that common. Also, Flashes effect
>senses, not
>characteristics, so it makes basing them on a characteristic a little
>problematic.
Well, the only reason I thought of this using INT for base Flash Defense is
that Senses and Perception rolls are based on INT. I suppose your argument
could be used against your own use of BODY as the CHA for Power Defense.
The only thing that is BODY based is BODY and STUN. Your individual powers
aren't BODY-based. But, then again, I was the one to bring it up...
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:42:07 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Miq Millman wrote:
>> >> from 400 meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200 penalty
>> >> with a standard Dive for Cover.)
>> >>
>> >For Superman in the example above:
>> >He sees bad guys about to shoot innocents.
>> >He decides not to use his heat vision to turn the bad guys to ash.
>> >He finishes his half move and then dives the 1".
>> >
>> No, I don't think so. I thought it was something like this. Segment 12,
>> they act and everything. Segment 1, the bad guys had held their Action, and
>> You can't Abort to a Movement Power, and even if you could, that's your only
>> action. You couldn't Abort to a Move, and then a Dive for Cover.
>
>You missed the point. You don't have to abort if you have an action.
>Superman moves on all segments.......
>
Okay, wiseguy, howsabout this: Supes does his Action, he's flying around
the city. SPD 12, and whatever high DEX you *want* him to have. Doesn't
matter. *SAME PHASE*, the bad guys, with a lower DEX, say they are shooting
the innocent. Supes already did his Action, and can't Abort. Okay? A SPD
12, pretty much blows you out of the Aborting rules altogether. You'd have
to be lowering your DEX for purposes of acting *all the time*.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:50:13 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Miq Millman wrote:
>You missed the point. You don't have to abort if you have an action.
>Superman moves on all segments.......
>
Ah. I just looked it up. *Your* version of Supes has SPD 14, which (AFAIK)
isn't even officially legal under 4th Ed Rules (if I'm wrong, please correct
me *gently* : ) However, Eric Langendorff gave him a SPD 10, as did Sam
Bell. Now, I don't want to get into an analysis of his power levels
(especially since he no longer exists in that form : ) but I think I (and
you) are losing sight that this was just an example.
Although I assume you are using the older rules, so that Supes gets one
Action every Segment, with an extra Action on Segments 6 and 12, I still
have problems seeing him execute the bouncing bullets trick just using the
straight rules.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:19:11 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Superman silliness...was out running...
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Miq Millman wrote:
>And who said Superman only has a speed 12? I'd give him at the very least
>this:
>
Well, actually, I assumed this: 1 Action/Segment = 12 SPD. Didn't say I
agreed with it (in fact, I think it's too high). And, as I mentioned, two
other write ups said SPD 10. : P nyah!
>53 +12 speed, only ususable once a turn, +1 1/2
>
Perhaps you meant -1 1/4? A -1 1/2 Limitation would give a cost of 48.
>This allows him to move again at half his Super-high Dex on any segment.
>Effectively he now has a 24 speed one phase eash turn, and a 12 speed for
>the other 11 phases (or a 8 speed for the other 7 phases or what ever speed
>he has)
>
Didn't see this in the book... Like I said in another post, 4th Ed doesn't
allow for this (right?). Even the acting "again at half his Super-high Dex"
isn't specified. Actually, I couldn't even find the "higher than 12 SPD"
rule in the old Champs books, even though I remember it. Do you recall
where it is? Are you using it straight out of the book, or did you modify it?
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:25:23 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Mark Lemming wrote:
>Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>
><Wise guy stuff deleted>
>
>> Okay, wiseguy, howsabout this: Supes does his Action, he's flying
>> around
>> the city. SPD 12, and whatever high DEX you *want* him to have.
>> Doesn't
>> matter. *SAME PHASE*, the bad guys, with a lower DEX, say they are
>> shooting
>> the innocent. Supes already did his Action, and can't Abort. Okay?
>> A SPD
>> 12, pretty much blows you out of the Aborting rules altogether. You'd
>> have
>> to be lowering your DEX for purposes of acting *all the time*.
>
>See your problem is that you're always thinking in combat time. If the
>GM wants the bad guys to shoot the innocent, then the innocent gets
>shot. Just use the combat phases when you have to. Not for examples
>like this. That pretty much sums up my views, so I'm out of this
>argument.
>
No, my problem was assuming that, since we were talking of game mechanics, I
could continue and expand using game mechanics. If the GM says, "Hey,
Clark, you see the Bad Guys (tm) about to shoot the Threatened Innocent
(tm). But you're 400m away. What do you do?" And then, when Clark says,
"I Instant Change and do this and this and this..." And the GM says, "Make
this and this and this roll..." I guess I assumed that combat had started.
Hmm... Guys firing guns at people, people rolling to hit and for
damage... sounds like combat to me.
But, I'm curious. If you're just going to use the characters
Powers, Characteristics, et al. as a guideline, except when you specifically
run combats, why would the rest of the thread matter to you, anyway? If
it's not "combat time," why would the character need a specific way of
outrunning an explosion, if he has a NCM on his move that would let him
physically do it?
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:12:33 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Extra Defense Limitation
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Brian Wong wrote:
>Here's an idea I got this morning.
>
>An Extra Defense Limitation. Under this idea a power could be stopped by
>more than just one defense.
> For instance an EB that is stopped by both ED and PD, or say ED and
>Flash Defence.
> Or a drain that can be stopped by Mental Defense and Power Defense.
>
> A falsh stopped by both Power Defense and Flash Defense.
>
>Etc...
> I can see it for certain kinds of magic effects, or even an energy
>or mental attack which targets the eyes...
>
> Question is, what would it be worth. I imagine it would vary.
>It's a lot more limiting to have a drain stopped by both ED and Power defense
>than it is to have a falsh stopped by flash defense and power defense.
>
Just found this in Champions III, under Transformation:
"The base Transformation Attack goes against the target's Power
Defense, is all or nothing, and does no STUN; it costs 15 points per 1d6...
A meaningful Transformation Attack can be very expensive, but it can
be made cheaper. The character can take a +1 1/2 Limitation on the
Transformation if it acts against the target's resistant Physical or
resistant Energy Defense."
So, extrapolating from this, to replace an Adjustment Power's
defense with Resistant ED or PD, it's -1 1/2. Then to add this as a second
additional defense *might* be -1 3/4.
Further extrapolations are at your own risk.
And, to answer my own earlier question, I would allow replacing
Power Defense as a defense for Adjustment Powers with Mental Defense, as
long as the SFX were right.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:16:00 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Superman silliness...was out running...
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Brian Wong wrote:
>> And who said Superman only has a speed 12? I'd give him at the very least
>> this:
>>
>> 53 +12 speed, only ususable once a turn, +1 1/2
>>
>> This allows him to move again at half his Super-high Dex on any segment.
>> Effectively he now has a 24 speed one phase eash turn, and a 12 speed for
>> the other 11 phases (or a 8 speed for the other 7 phases or what ever speed
>> he has)
>
> If you're already allowing speeds aboe 12, in this case, why not just
>buy a 13 speed? Only costs 10 more points than the 12 speed...
> Actions would just wrap around on the speed chart.
>
Well, for the additional 43 points, you get to choose *when* he takes his
extra Action, right before he wants to take it. With just a 13 SPD, he'd
*have* to have 2 Actions in Segment 7, or lose the other one. You can't
hold an Action into a Segment where you are already supposed to have an
Action. Which is *every* Segment, if your SPD >= 12.
- Jerry
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:25:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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In a message dated 97-09-17 13:50:34 EDT, ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes:
>
> >>>>> "S" == Sparx <psansone@i1.net> writes:
>
> S> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it.
>
> Dive for Cover.
>
> Nothing in the description requires "leaping" movement; *any* movement
> power may be used.
>
> And buy a bunch of skill levels to offset the penalties.
>
Except that this breaks down for the super-speedsters ("faster than a
speeding bullet") who can literally outrun the shockwave of an explosion.
These folks are going to have 3-digit movement scores.
Using the standard, unmodified Dive for Cover will limit characters to
relatively short distances: More than 10" is iffy. Modifications to the rule
are needed to duplicate the really huge "Dive for Cover" moves sometimes seen
in the comics (Superman flying high above the streets of Metropolis sees bad
guys with his super-vision about to shoot innocents, he swoops down from 400
meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200 penalty with a
standard Dive for Cover.)
IMHO, Dive for Cover needs a modification to make it taper off after reaching
a -5 penalty or so. If a character has the movement needed to pull off a 200"
Dive for cover, then the penalty to the DEX roll should be somewhere within
the realm of possibility: A -5 or -10 instead of -200.
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:04:58 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 12:25 AM 9/18/97 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
>
>BG> Hm. I might go with a GM Special Effects call, or perhaps an
Advantage
>BG> could be given to movement that Dive For Cover takes normal Range
>BG> Modifiers. (Say, a +1/4 Modifier for that? Is that too low? Or should
>BG> some other, similar factors be added to such an Advantage?)
>
>Nah. Look, a mile-wide explosion is a plot device. Getting *out* of a
>mile-wide explosion is a plot device. I mean, seriously, you want to make
>characters pay for an ability they are going to *MAYBE* use *ONCE*?
Well, sure -- but not much, and my last question indicated that I'm
willing to throw some additional benefits into the bargain (if someone can
come up with some).
>Besides, a campaign that can "afford" AoEs with radii of more than 6" or so
>can easilly afford a handful of skill levels that can be applied to Dive
>for Cover rolls.
While this is true, you're looking at a need for something like 600
Skill Levels to make a Dive For Cover of this magnitude even reasonable.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Outrunning an Explosion...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:57:53 -0400
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I wonder if putting the No Range Penalty on Running or Flight should
allow the character to dive for cover without distance penalties...
i.e. The Flash has 50" of Running with No Range Penalty. When he dives
for cover, he can dive 1" or 50", and it's still the same DEX roll.
This kind of thing might work well in a speedster MP.
Dave Mattingly
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
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> >
> > i saw this game, aparently related to the Hero games line on a web page for
> > sale. so i'm wondering -- is it related to Champions? does it use the Hero
> > system? what is it about and is it worth getting? thanks for any
> > information.
>
> In the old days where every genre had its own variation of the Hero
> System, Justice, Inc. was the rules for 1920-30s pulp fiction. It has
> a good source book and some excellent adventure ideas. With some
> tweaking and a lot of work on my part, The Coates Shambler became
> probably the best adventure I have ever run. The work came from using
> the most difficult adventure options.
>
Hey you know. I have to say the same thing. I don't remember it's
name, but I ran the haunted house adventure. Too date it was my favorite
experience as a GM.
That game was great.
Too bad my stepfather gave my copy away when I stored it at his house
while staying in Korea for a few years... :(
> All in all, I'd say it was one of the best things Hero Games ever put
> out. If you are going to use 4th Edition Hero System rules, however,
> you might want to look at the Hero System Almanac I. It contained
> conversion rules to cover the odd "pulp"-style psychic powers from
> JI. Without JI, however, those rule updates are no more than mildly
> interesting, whereas without the updates JI is still one of the best
> things Hero Games ever did.
>
Another very good item to have is Horror Hero. It contains several
package deals and advice that helps.
I managed to buy a copy of the sourcebook to Justice Inc. from
Steve Peterson at Dundracon last year, but I'm still missing the rules and
Lands of Mystery...
Of all the things he could have tossed, he had to toss my favorite...
--
Rook
Also known as Arcady on #herochat and #Fuzionchat in DALnet IRC
herochat is a channel for discusion of the Hero system
Fuzionchat is for dicussion of Fuzion (C:NM, BGC, et all)
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:03:48 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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ErolB1@aol.com wrote:
> Except that this breaks down for the super-speedsters ("faster than a
> speeding bullet") who can literally outrun the shockwave of an
> explosion.
> These folks are going to have 3-digit movement scores.
>
> Using the standard, unmodified Dive for Cover will limit characters to
> relatively short distances: More than 10" is iffy. Modifications to
> the rule
> are needed to duplicate the really huge "Dive for Cover" moves
> sometimes seen
> in the comics (Superman flying high above the streets of Metropolis
> sees bad
> guys with his super-vision about to shoot innocents, he swoops down
> from 400
> meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200 penalty with a
> standard Dive for Cover.)
>
> IMHO, Dive for Cover needs a modification to make it taper off after
> reaching
> a -5 penalty or so. If a character has the movement needed to pull off
> a 200"
> Dive for cover, then the penalty to the DEX roll should be somewhere
> within
> the realm of possibility: A -5 or -10 instead of -200.
The original message was talking about setting off an explosion and then
getting away from it.
That to me is just a plot device. He sets the bomb off and has 1-3
seconds. For a speedster should have the one or two phases in there. No
dive for cover needed since he's just moving.
For Superman in the example above:
He sees bad guys about to shoot innocents.
He decides not to use his heat vision to turn the bad guys to ash.
He finishes his half move and then dives the 1".
-Mark
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:26:12 -0700
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 08:25 AM 9/18/97 -0400, ErolB1@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-17 13:50:34 EDT, ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes:
>
>>
>> >>>>> "S" == Sparx <psansone@i1.net> writes:
>>
>> S> Ok, we've all seen the Flash and even Superman do it.
>>
>> Dive for Cover.
>>
>> Nothing in the description requires "leaping" movement; *any* movement
>> power may be used.
>>
>> And buy a bunch of skill levels to offset the penalties.
>>
When I ran a super-fast speedster, his movement was bought as Teleport. So
with multiples, he could literally teleport miles in an instant, and if he
could time it right (a DEX roll with proper minuses) he could intercept
bullets, etc.
It seems to me that it would be easy to out run an explosion you set off if
you use Teleport, because *instantly* you aren't there...
Jim
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> >> from 400 meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200 penalty
> >> with a standard Dive for Cover.)
> >>
> >For Superman in the example above:
> >He sees bad guys about to shoot innocents.
> >He decides not to use his heat vision to turn the bad guys to ash.
> >He finishes his half move and then dives the 1".
> >
> No, I don't think so. I thought it was something like this. Segment 12,
> they act and everything. Segment 1, the bad guys had held their Action, and
> You can't Abort to a Movement Power, and even if you could, that's your only
> action. You couldn't Abort to a Move, and then a Dive for Cover.
You missed the point. You don't have to abort if you have an action.
Superman moves on all segments.......
--
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:36:51 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Lightning Cage...
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Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:37:10 -0500 (CDT)
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From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion....
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Thanks all for helping me with the outrunning an explosion question. I
think I'm going to handle it in the form of needing to buy Dive For Cover
levels. A few of you seemed to agree with it and it makes sense to me. The
scenario in question is not a bomb at all, but a space ships energy source
that the "hero" was going to destroy and hope to outrace the destruction of
the ship. Just have to wait and see how it turns out, I guess. Interesting
points were brought up and perhaps there should be a bonus for Speedsters
getting outta dodge in time. Thanks again and talk at you later.
Sparx
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:40:01 +0000
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
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On 18 Sep 97 at 0:23, William G Geiger wrote:
> Filksinger sez, "An NND could easily have Power Defense as the defense."
>
> I say, in many campaigns, Power Defense is not reasonably common.
Which makes it even worse. A defense that is not reasonably common
partially stops a Drain, and it has to be replaced by a reasonably
common defense that stops it totally. Clearly a step down, and an
expensive one at that.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:40:01 +0000
Subject: RE: Outrunning an Explosion...
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On 18 Sep 97 at 10:57, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> I wonder if putting the No Range Penalty on Running or Flight should
> allow the character to dive for cover without distance penalties...
>
> i.e. The Flash has 50" of Running with No Range Penalty. When he dives
> for cover, he can dive 1" or 50", and it's still the same DEX roll.
>
> This kind of thing might work well in a speedster MP.
>
> Dave Mattingly
You fiend.
Why are all my best ideas revealed by someone else just before I tell
people?
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:40:01 +0000
Subject: Re: XP Awards (rather long, sorry)
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On 18 Sep 97 at 0:04, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> Bob Greenwade (showing impressive patience with me) wrote:
> > I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
> >systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
> >for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
> >
> I've only played Paranoia once, and all I got rewarded with was
> Death. Constant, unstoppable Death. Death for being in character. Death
> for being out of character. Death for being loyal to the Computer. Death
> for being disloyal to the computer. <sigh>
A good Paranoia game shouldn't kill _too_ many people. I've had
entire teams that mostly survived an adventure.
If you have a running campaign, rewards depend a bit upon the _type_
of award. For example, promotion under the Computer depends upon
convincing the Computer that you are loyal to the Computer and
promote its aims. Framing your teammates for traitorous acts and then
turning them in is good for this.
Promotion in your secret society is similar. You get promoted for
following orders and promoting the secret society. Blackmail is also
useful.
Experience points come from adventuring, succeeding at tasks you are
given, and inventive roleplaying. Dying in a particularly interesting
manner is worth points. Avoiding certain death is also a good way to
get points. For example, in one game some players allowed a scrubbot
to clean the brain of the world's most powerful warbot, thus ruining
it. One of them called in a favor, and got a friend sent over with
orders to inspect the warbot. When the friend opened the braincase,
they shot him and blamed him. The forged inspection order he carried
was enough to save them. Got them bonus points, too
Paranoia games that only promote the death of the players are not
much fun, except possibly for some GMs. Occasional gratuitous and
possibly amusing death is fine, especially since it is even fun for
the players, if not overdone, but surviving ridiculous, nearly deadly
circumstances can be fun for everyone.
I have met many people who, after playing Paranoia, said that it was
only fun for the GM. I have successfully convinced some of them that
_when properly run_ it is fun for the players as well. Sometimes
while killing everyone, but usually not, and usually not more than
once or twice.:)
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: Superman silliness...was out running...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
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Jeremiah Driscoll says:
> Okay, wiseguy, howsabout this: Supes does his Action, he's flying around
> the city. SPD 12, and whatever high DEX you *want* him to have. Doesn't
> matter. *SAME PHASE*, the bad guys, with a lower DEX, say they are shooting
> the innocent. Supes already did his Action, and can't Abort. Okay? A SPD
> 12, pretty much blows you out of the Aborting rules altogether. You'd have
> to be lowering your DEX for purposes of acting *all the time*.
And who said Superman only has a speed 12? I'd give him at the very least
this:
53 +12 speed, only ususable once a turn, +1 1/2
This allows him to move again at half his Super-high Dex on any segment.
Effectively he now has a 24 speed one phase eash turn, and a 12 speed for
the other 11 phases (or a 8 speed for the other 7 phases or what ever speed
he has)
:^)
--
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:18:23 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
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Bob Greenwade sed:
> I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
>systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
>for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
>
Well, the only other RPG of note that I have played (besides the
ones I've mentioned elsewhere on the thread) was the White Wolf system.
And, personally, I'm a little more conversant than my time playing would show...
There's the policy in that game that the Players "compete" for a
single XP award for good roleplaying. I'm not sure I like this, as I would
prefer a game where there is more cooperation than competition (although
that has its place, as well). But the rest of the XP system seemed pretty
standard...
I have thought of a few other ideas for tossing out XP... I (just
now) considered an adventure that would have situations tailored to the
individual characters. Some of these would be simple to get out of (make a
Skill roll), but could be looked at with *much* more depth. The idea would
be to "tie" XP awards to the individual situations... if the character just
kinda glossed over it, he wouldn't be able to earn the XP ("yeah, I'll make
my Electronics roll. Let's get to the combat...").
Another way of giving out XP that I've only heard of (ie- not seen
in practice) was the "Let the Players Decide/Vote." The Players would get
some say in who got more XP, usually by a vote. I could theorize on this,
but I'd prefer to let someone who has first-hand knowledge continue with it...
- Jerry
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:18:30 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
<Wise guy stuff deleted>
> Okay, wiseguy, howsabout this: Supes does his Action, he's flying
> around
> the city. SPD 12, and whatever high DEX you *want* him to have.
> Doesn't
> matter. *SAME PHASE*, the bad guys, with a lower DEX, say they are
> shooting
> the innocent. Supes already did his Action, and can't Abort. Okay?
> A SPD
> 12, pretty much blows you out of the Aborting rules altogether. You'd
> have
> to be lowering your DEX for purposes of acting *all the time*.
See your problem is that you're always thinking in combat time. If the
GM wants the bad guys to shoot the innocent, then the innocent gets
shot. Just use the combat phases when you have to. Not for examples
like this. That pretty much sums up my views, so I'm out of this
argument.
-Mark
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:33:54 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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At 12:36 PM 9/18/97 -0500, Sparx wrote:
>Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
>interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
>Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
>actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
>through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
>to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
>it easy and talk at you later.
>Sparx
Area Effect, Hole In Middle?
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
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>
> Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
> interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
> Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
> actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
> through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
> to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
> it easy and talk at you later.
Some combination of Area Effect and Continuous.
Just figure which version of Area Effect best fits the effect and
shape desired.
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Superman silliness...was out running...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
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>
> And who said Superman only has a speed 12? I'd give him at the very least
> this:
>
> 53 +12 speed, only ususable once a turn, +1 1/2
>
>
> This allows him to move again at half his Super-high Dex on any segment.
> Effectively he now has a 24 speed one phase eash turn, and a 12 speed for
> the other 11 phases (or a 8 speed for the other 7 phases or what ever speed
> he has)
If you're already allowing speeds aboe 12, in this case, why not just
buy a 13 speed? Only costs 10 more points than the 12 speed...
Actions would just wrap around on the speed chart.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:41:25 -0400
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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>Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
>interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
>Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
>actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
>through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
>to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
>it easy and talk at you later.
>Sparx
EB (or RKA), Hex AOE, Continuous, Only around the edges (-?)
I would probably make that one a -1; if the player used it often on
moving people so as to nail them because they can't get stopped in time,
then reduce it to a -1/2. You will probably want to include some level of
either force wall or entangle, linked, so as to represent that just because
you take the damage does not mean you get out.
Or, build the force wall or the entangle as the larger power, and then link
the EB/RKA to it, -1/4 limitation of only goes off on breakout attempts. ?
Other ideas?
David Miller
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:49:25 +0000
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
Reply-to: ghoyle1@airmail.net
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> On 18 Sep 97 at 0:23, William G Geiger wrote:
>
> > Filksinger sez, "An NND could easily have Power Defense as the defense."
> >
> > I say, in many campaigns, Power Defense is not reasonably common.
>
> Which makes it even worse. A defense that is not reasonably common
> partially stops a Drain, and it has to be replaced by a reasonably
> common defense that stops it totally. Clearly a step down, and an
> expensive one at that.
Why is Power Defense considered an uncommon defense? I can think of
many justifications for at least a few points of it in most
campaigns. Devout Christians should be able to call upon Jesus, God,
or the saints for protection against evil curses and possession,
especially by wearing a saint's medallion. Those who believe in the
occult should be able to obtain charms against evil influences. No
doubt practitioners of other religions oughtta be able to come up
with something similar. Of course, this would probably only work
against Drains with magic attacks, but this should provide a
justification for Power Defense in most settings.
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:55:28 +0000
Subject: Re: XP Awards (rather long, sorry)
Reply-to: ghoyle1@airmail.net
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> On 18 Sep 97 at 0:04, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>
> > Bob Greenwade (showing impressive patience with me) wrote:
>
> > > I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
> > >systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
> > >for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
> > >
> > I've only played Paranoia once, and all I got rewarded with was
> > Death. Constant, unstoppable Death. Death for being in character. Death
> > for being out of character. Death for being loyal to the Computer. Death
> > for being disloyal to the computer. <sigh>
>
> A good Paranoia game shouldn't kill _too_ many people. I've had
> entire teams that mostly survived an adventure.
>
> If you have a running campaign, rewards depend a bit upon the _type_
> of award. For example, promotion under the Computer depends upon
> convincing the Computer that you are loyal to the Computer and
> promote its aims. Framing your teammates for traitorous acts and then
> turning them in is good for this.
>
> Promotion in your secret society is similar. You get promoted for
> following orders and promoting the secret society. Blackmail is also
> useful.
>
> Experience points come from adventuring, succeeding at tasks you are
> given, and inventive roleplaying. Dying in a particularly interesting
> manner is worth points. Avoiding certain death is also a good way to
> get points. For example, in one game some players allowed a scrubbot
> to clean the brain of the world's most powerful warbot, thus ruining
> it. One of them called in a favor, and got a friend sent over with
> orders to inspect the warbot. When the friend opened the braincase,
> they shot him and blamed him. The forged inspection order he carried
> was enough to save them. Got them bonus points, too
>
> Paranoia games that only promote the death of the players are not
> much fun, except possibly for some GMs. Occasional gratuitous and
> possibly amusing death is fine, especially since it is even fun for
> the players, if not overdone, but surviving ridiculous, nearly deadly
> circumstances can be fun for everyone.
>
> I have met many people who, after playing Paranoia, said that it was
> only fun for the GM. I have successfully convinced some of them that
> _when properly run_ it is fun for the players as well. Sometimes
> while killing everyone, but usually not, and usually not more than
> once or twice.:)
Well, I haven't played very much Paranoia myself, but I'm very much
taken by the whole idea. Some of my friends were not, however; I'm
convinced that the secret of enjoying Paranoia is understanding that
there'll be a virtually unstoppable stream of death at the whim of
the Computer. The GM's task is to make it FUN for the player to die,
rather like in a Roadrunner cartoon. Death isn't really permanent in
Paranoia because of the clones. After all, the Computer may be
insane, but it's still your friend!
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
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and the PANGAEA Project!
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:11:45 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Justice, Inc. ?
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At 08:43 AM 9/18/97 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> In the old days where every genre had its own variation of the Hero
>> System, Justice, Inc. was the rules for 1920-30s pulp fiction. It has
>> a good source book and some excellent adventure ideas. With some
>> tweaking and a lot of work on my part, The Coates Shambler became
>> probably the best adventure I have ever run. The work came from using
>> the most difficult adventure options.
>>
> Hey you know. I have to say the same thing. I don't remember it's
>name, but I ran the haunted house adventure. Too date it was my favorite
>experience as a GM.
> That game was great.
It seems like a lot of us have positive memories of a Justice, Inc. game.
One of the best adventures I ever played in was a Justice, Inc.
limited-run adventure (a four-parter) where a group of intrepid adventurers
investigated werewolf happenings around an old mansion. I'll never forget
the fight on the burning railway car with a runaway engine after the
engineer turned into a werewolf. Nor his being trapped in a room with a
crushing ceiling and a mad bomber who suddenly became reluctant to use his
dynamite to get out of that trouble because he'd be too close to the blast.
Nor his falling into a spike-laden pit and injuring his left leg -- for
the third time that adventure. Nor everybody narrowly winning a fight
against robotized suits of plate armor.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:14:00 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 10:57 AM 9/18/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
>I wonder if putting the No Range Penalty on Running or Flight should
>allow the character to dive for cover without distance penalties...
>
>i.e. The Flash has 50" of Running with No Range Penalty. When he dives
>for cover, he can dive 1" or 50", and it's still the same DEX roll.
>
>This kind of thing might work well in a speedster MP.
Sounds OK for a Speedster Multipower (like that used by Fast Forward).
Outside a Multipower, though, it's still a bit expensive for the expected
benefit -- unless we can figure out some additional benefit to having NRP
on Running.
---
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:16:37 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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At 10:26 AM 9/18/97 -0700, Jim Dickinson wrote:
>
>When I ran a super-fast speedster, his movement was bought as Teleport. So
>with multiples, he could literally teleport miles in an instant, and if he
>could time it right (a DEX roll with proper minuses) he could intercept
>bullets, etc.
>
>It seems to me that it would be easy to out run an explosion you set off if
>you use Teleport, because *instantly* you aren't there...
Hm, you're thinking of Teleport with a Must Cross Intervening Space (or
similar) Limitation? That might very well work.
---
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:20:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion....
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At 12:37 PM 9/18/97 -0500, Sparx wrote:
>Thanks all for helping me with the outrunning an explosion question. I
>think I'm going to handle it in the form of needing to buy Dive For Cover
>levels. A few of you seemed to agree with it and it makes sense to me. The
>scenario in question is not a bomb at all, but a space ships energy source
>that the "hero" was going to destroy and hope to outrace the destruction of
>the ship. Just have to wait and see how it turns out, I guess. Interesting
>points were brought up and perhaps there should be a bonus for Speedsters
>getting outta dodge in time. Thanks again and talk at you later.
Oh, that kind of thing? I typically just tell the characters "You have
X seconds (or whatever) to avert disaster."
In fact, I once ran a scenario where the characters had one Turn, cut
specifically into twelve seconds (literally until the stroke of 12 -- noon,
to be specific) to avert the destruction of the world. And sure enough,
the one who actually did it was the last one to move on Segment 12.
(You just can't plan 'em like that.)
---
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:25:29 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: The Dreaded SPD > 12 Thread Again (was Superman/Outrunning)
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At 03:16 PM 9/18/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>Well, for the additional 43 points, you get to choose *when* he takes his
>extra Action, right before he wants to take it. With just a 13 SPD, he'd
>*have* to have 2 Actions in Segment 7, or lose the other one. You can't
>hold an Action into a Segment where you are already supposed to have an
>Action. Which is *every* Segment, if your SPD >= 12.
I guess this has already started, so I might as well....
If SPD > 12 (assuming this is allowed IYC at all), where does the
character's extra Phases fall in DEX order? Typically, I'd say at half DEX.
For SPD > 24, IMO, the Phases come at DEX, half DEX, and one-quarter DEX
(so the character only has to worry about three DEX positions, rather than
four as would happen if we were to say full and half when there are two
actions and full, two-thirds, and one-third when there are three).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Hocus Focus
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:34:44 -0400 (EDT)
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I have an idea for a type of focus, but I'm having trouble building it.
Terry the Telepath can read people's minds, but only if he has a personal
possession of theirs (eg a favorite shirt, a strand of hair, etc). He
needs a seperate focus for each potential target. Anyone have any ideas
on how this could be implemented?
-Eric
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:46:46 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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>Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
>interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
>Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
>actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
>through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
>to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
>it easy and talk at you later.
How about:
XD6 Energy Blast (or RKA), AE: One Hex, Hole in the Middle, Continious?
Just define the 'hole' as 1/2 a hex (fixed, +1/4) and away you go. Not very
cheap, but complex powers seldom are in Champs. You could just have a 0 DEF
0 BODY Entangle with a Linked, Triggered power attached to it if you like.
Instant breakout if you want, but *BBBZZZTTTT!* when you do. I guess that
would be a Triggered EB with a linked No Body No DEF Entangle (at 1D6 1 DEF
originally, with those lims, cheap, cheap, cheap!). And not abusive at all -
for those points, you could just buy a normal RKA/EB and fry him on the spot.
Hmm..I guess it could be just a triggered EB; trigger 'if you use a movement
power other than XDM/Teleport', and the trigger fails if the victim goes
desolid (SFX).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
-John comments on Feng Shui
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The Dreaded SPD > 12 Thread Again (was Superman/Outrunning)
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 18 Sep 1997 18:57:22 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> I guess this has already started, so I might as well....
BG> If SPD > 12 (assuming this is allowed IYC at all), where does the
BG> character's extra Phases fall in DEX order?
Let me burst this right now by making a suggestion that if you absolutely
have to have more actions in a combat turn, make a combat turn longer.
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PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:31:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Hocus Focus
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-20
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Sounds like Fragile Personal Foci (-1/4), difficult to acquire (-1/4).
You decide about Obvious or /Inobvious, Accessible or Inacessible. Terry
might also need to Concentrate, possibly for Extra Time.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
The Computer wants you to be happy.
If you are not happy, you will be used as reactor shielding.
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Eric Burns
<burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu> writes:
>I have an idea for a type of focus, but I'm having trouble building
>it.
>Terry the Telepath can read people's minds, but only if he has a
>personal
>possession of theirs (eg a favorite shirt, a strand of hair, etc). He
>needs a seperate focus for each potential target. Anyone have any
>ideas
>on how this could be implemented?
>
>-Eric
>
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:17:08
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: CHAR: [New Gods] "Prequel"
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Recently got an urge to do Hero write-up of the characters from Jack Kirby's Fourth
World (probably has something to do with DC announced tpb collecting all of Kirby's
Fourth World stuff).
No attempt has been made to make these characters into balanced, playable
characters (although they seem to match up fairly well power-level-wise with the DC
write-ups Sam Bell has done). All I've tried to do is (more or less) acurately represent
the powers levels exhibited in the comics.
Oh, btw, if anyone is interested I can also send you (or post to the list) Heromaker
versions of these characters.
-=>John Desmarais
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:19:33
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: CHAR: [New Gods] Highfather Izaya
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Highfather Izaya
35 STR 25
53 DEX 129
52 CON 84
24 BODY 28
48 INT 38
33 EGO 46
30 PRE 20
14 COM 2
43 PD 36
46 ED 36
8 SPD 17
17 REC 0
104 END 0
68 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 461
6 Life Support (Light),immune to disease,immune to aging
36 36/36 Damage Resistance
15 Persuasion 21-
19 WF,Flails,Lances,Quarterstaff,Whip,Sling,Staff Sling,
Flamethrowers,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket
Launchers,Man-Guided Missiles,Common Melee,Common Missile,
Small Arms,Heavy Weapons,Via his past life as a warrior,
just assume that he knows.
3 AK: New Genesis 19-,(INT based)
2 AK: Apokolips 11-
3 Tactics 19-
3 Bureaucratics 15-
24 3 Levels,all combat
HIGHFATHER'S STAFF
40 Clairsentience (Direct link to "The Source"),see future,see
past,see other dimensions,OAF(-1) 8
120 VPP (80),no skill roll required,OAF(-1)
15 100/20 End Reserve,OAF(-1)
0 Followers: Mother Box (see below) (0pt)
Powers Cost: 286
Total Cost: 747
Base Points: 100
25 Psych Lim,"Near irrattional compulsion towards peace",very
common,total
15 Psych Lim,"Mysterious (due to his link with "THe Source")",
very common,moderate
607 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 647
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 747
Highfather is the leader of the New Gods. He is beloved by his people for is unerring
wisdom, loving nature, and paternal spirit. As a pacifist who no longer engages directly
in combat, Highfather is nevertheless prudent enough to realize that sometime force is
the only effective weapon against Darkseid.
Mother Box (or a poor facsimle thereof)
20 INT 10
10 DEX 0
2 SPD 0
12 EGO 4
Characteristics Cost: 14
35 16- Danger Sense,any attack,immediate vicinity
17 +6 Detect,make into sense,Desc: Life
10 360 Degree Sensing,Unusual Sense Group
180 VPP (90),can change powers as 0 phase
33 VPP Manipulation 28-
11 100/1 End Reserve
Powers Cost: 286
Total Cost: 300
Base Points: 100
25 Psych Lim,"Enigmatic Motivations",very common,total
175 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 200
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 300
My basis for the powers and characteristics is a combination
of Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG, DC Comic's Who's Who in the
DC Universe, ad my own twisted mind.
===================================================
Character write-up by John Desmarais. Copy and use as
you will. Comments to John.Desmarais@ibm.net
===================================================
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:24:11
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: CHAR: [New Gods] Orion
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Orion
110 STR 100
43 DEX 99
60 CON 100
30 BODY 40
28 INT 18
38 EGO 56
25 PRE 15
6/24 COM -2
67 PD 45
57 ED 45
7 SPD 17
34 REC 0
120 END 0
115 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 533
6 +18 COM,Not when enraged(-1/2)
45 45/45 Damage Resistance
30 3 BODY Regen
3 AK: Apokolips 15-,(INT based)
3 AK: New Genesis 15-,(INT based)
2 11- Contact: Misc Apokolips Scumbuckets
2 11- Contact: Ruling Heirarchy of New Genesis
10 10 Resistance
6 Life Support (Light),immune to disease,immune to aging
32 4 Levels,all combat
20 4 Levels: Hand-to-Hand,related group
12 4 Levels: ASTRO-GLIDER Weapons,tight group
19 WF,Flails,Lances,Quarterstaff,Whip,Sling,Staff Sling,
Flamethrowers,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket
Launchers,Man-Guided Missiles,Common Melee,Common Missile,
Small Arms,Heavy Weapons
GADGETS
15 EC (ASTRO-GLIDER) (37),OAF(-1 1/2),bulky
22a) 25D6 EB (Concussive Blast),vs physical defense,OAF(-1 1/2),
bulky 12
9b) 6 1/2D6 Flash,Sight Group,OAF(-1 1/2),bulky 7
14c) 65 STR TK (Magnetism),affects all parts,OAF(-1 1/2),bulky 10
13d) 30" Flight (Gravity),x125 Non-Combat,OAF(-1 1/2),bulky 6
9 Life Support,"(provided by the Astro-Glider)",doesn't
breathe,safe in vacuum/pressure,safe in radiation,safe in
heat/cold,immune to disease,OAF(-1 1/2),bulky
Mother Box
Get real. This is a god box. Here's a sloppy,
ill-conceived attempt.
[No points have been spent by the character to have this -
it just seemed wrong]
0 Followers: Mother Box (see below) (0pt)
Powers Cost: 272
Total Cost: 805
Base Points: 100
10 Enraged,"When in combat",very common,occur 11-,recover 14-
15 Hunted,"Minions of Darkseid",as powerful,harsh,appear 11-
10 Watched,"Darkseid",more powerful,harsh,appear 11-
15 Psych Lim,"Moody",very common,moderate
15 Psych Lim,"Only happy when fighting",common,strong
640 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 705
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 805
Orion is a tortured soul who constantly strives to temper his tendency towards wanton
brutality with his love for peace and beauty. And though his violent temper often clouds
his rational judgeent, he is still New Genesis's greatest champion.
Mother Box (or a poor facsimile thereof)
20 INT 10
10 DEX 0
2 SPD 0
12 EGO 4
Characteristics Cost: 14
35 16- Danger Sense,any attack,immediate vicinity
17 +6 Detect,make into sense,Desc: Life
10 360 Degree Sensing,Unusual Sense Group
180 VPP (90),can change powers as 0 phase
33 VPP Manipulation 28-
11 100/1 End Reserve
Powers Cost: 286
Total Cost: 300
Base Points: 100
25 Psych Lim,"Enigmatic Motivations",very common,total
175 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 200
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 300
My basis for the powers and characteristics is a combination
of Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG, DC Comic's Who's Who in the
DC Universe, ad my own twisted mind.
===================================================
Character write-up by John Desmarais. Copy and use as
you will. Comments to John.Desmarais@ibm.net
===================================================
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:27:22
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: CHAR: [New Gods] Lightray
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Lightray
30 STR 20
40 DEX 90
24 CON 28
14 BODY 8
38 INT 28
18 EGO 16
18 PRE 8
26 COM 8
12 PD 6
10 ED 5
6 SPD 10
11 REC 0
48 END 0
41 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 227
90 18D6 EB (Solar) 9
60 6D6 Flash (Solar),Sight 6
226 68" Flight,x16 Non-Combat,0 END(+1/2) 0
61 -7 Images (Light),Sight Group,x4 Increased Area 6
30 Life Support (Light),doesn't breathe,doesn't
eat/sleep/excrete,safe in vacuum/pressure,safe in radiation,
safe in heat/cold,immune to disease,immune to aging
10 x1 FTL (Light)
3 Acrobatics 17-
6 TF,Ground Vehicles,Air Vehicles,Space Vehicles
9 WF,Flamethrowers,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket
Launchers,Man-Guided Missiles,Small Arms,Heavy Weapons
3 Scientist
2 SC: Chemistry 17-,(INT based)
2 SC: Mathematics 17-,(INT based)
2 SC: Physics 17-,(INT based)
3 AK: New Genesis 17-,(INT based)
3 AK: Apokolips 17-,(INT based)
0 Followers: Mother Box (see below) (0pt)
Powers Cost: 510
Total Cost: 737
Base Points: 100
20 Psych Lim,"Uncommonly Heroic",very common,strong
5 Rep,"Orion's pal",occur 8-
612 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 637
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 737
Lightray has been a staunch ally and friend to Orion in his battle against the forces of
Apokolips. Lightray's peaceful nature often counterbalances Orion's ferocity.
Mother Box (or a poor facsimile thereof)
20 INT 10
10 DEX 0
2 SPD 0
12 EGO 4
Characteristics Cost: 14
35 16- Danger Sense,any attack,immediate vicinity
17 +6 Detect,make into sense,Desc: Life
10 360 Degree Sensing,Unusual Sense Group
180 VPP (90),can change powers as 0 phase
33 VPP Manipulation 28-
11 100/1 End Reserve
Powers Cost: 286
Total Cost: 300
Base Points: 100
25 Psych Lim,"Enigmatic Motivations",very common,total
175 Kirby Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 200
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 300
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:32:59
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: CHAR: [New Gods] "postscript"
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Well, those three (Highfather, Orion, and Lightray) are today's batch.
Next up, some bad guys I think - I'm not sure who (any requests?), but Darkseid will
definitely be in the mix, and possibly Big Barda (yeah, I know, she's not a bad guy, but
she used to be).
I won't be doing Mr. Miracle (Sam Bell already did him), but I may (if I can figure out what
he can do) write-up Scott Free's current incarnation (per John Byrne's "Jack Kirby's
Fourth World").
-=>John Desmarais
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 00:35:57
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: META: Opinon wanted.
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Just a quick question for the readers of this list:
Is there enough of a diference in the audiences of this list and
rec.games.frp.super-heroes to justify posting things like character write-ups to both?
-=>John Desmarais
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:27:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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> Some bombs have fuzes or timers, giving speedsters plenty of time to
> escape.
> Another idea might be to purchase Range Skill Levels with Dive for Cover.
>
However, one may even need to buy some special inches in running,
only to increase dive for cover distance. Maybe.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:37:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: XP Awards (rather long, sorry)
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> One late night session, I earned the highest XP bonus for
> roleplaying possible, after a taunting speech made down the stairs of a
> dungeon to a Priest of Bane who was hanging around with a Green Dragon (I
> was a 1st level Priest of Lathander, the other PCs were also 1st level).
> The highest possible total: 50 XP!!! For those of you who've played D&D,
> you know how much that is...
Yeah, I once knew the XP tables for that game well. I'm better
now, really. You can send away those men in the clean white coats.
LAst time I ran AD&D I ended up coming at it like I did for Hero
-- Combat was of little importance for XP. Heck, the players got about
1000 of the whatever number of points for 2nd level from RP bonuses. Very
little from combat. Ah well, just goes to show that even a bad game
system can be utilized with style if the GM has any skill.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:25:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: XP Awards (rather long, sorry)
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> If you have a running campaign, rewards depend a bit upon the _type_
> of award. For example, promotion under the Computer depends upon
> convincing the Computer that you are loyal to the Computer and
> promote its aims. Framing your teammates for traitorous acts and then
> turning them in is good for this.
Also good for those teammates putting a shot in your back, but
who's counting?
> get points. For example, in one game some players allowed a scrubbot
> to clean the brain of the world's most powerful warbot, thus ruining
> it. One of them called in a favor, and got a friend sent over with
> orders to inspect the warbot. When the friend opened the braincase,
> they shot him and blamed him. The forged inspection order he carried
> was enough to save them. Got them bonus points, too
I like that.
> I have met many people who, after playing Paranoia, said that it was
> only fun for the GM. I have successfully convinced some of them that
> _when properly run_ it is fun for the players as well. Sometimes
> while killing everyone, but usually not, and usually not more than
> once or twice.:)
Well, I've only played the game once, and that was at a GenCon
game this year. Everyone lost at least three clones, one player lost
five. At one time the entire team was dead.
It was great, however, because the GM did very little of the
killing. (Except maybe for some ammunition that happened to be in the
line of fire.) We were all quite fervrent in our attempt to toadie
support from the computer and to not be considered traitorous. For that,
we killed each other as much as possible -- usually with a cry of "He's a
traitor!"
It was only coincidence that we barely started our first of three
missions, really.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 06:10:09 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Superman silliness...was out running...
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At 02:19 PM 9/18/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>Didn't see this in the book... Like I said in another post, 4th Ed doesn't
>allow for this (right?). Even the acting "again at half his Super-high Dex"
>isn't specified. Actually, I couldn't even find the "higher than 12 SPD"
>rule in the old Champs books, even though I remember it. Do you recall
>where it is? Are you using it straight out of the book, or did you modify
it?
I own EVERY edition of the Champions Rules - believe me Speed OVER 12 has
NEVER been "legal" in any of them...
In fact, in the first 3 editions, the subject was never mentioned at all,
allowing the power trippers to believe that the speed chart could just be
"extended" to allow for it....
However the "official" statement from every hero games person I've ever
talked to about it is that "Speed over 12 is ludicrous and not allowed in
the official rules or any published supplement" - (Perrin)
Personally I agree with this... If you want to be able to attack more
than once per segment - start buying autofire!
Earl Kwallek - Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.US
A Man with a gun is a citizen;
a man without a gun is a subject.
From: PopTholian@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NPC
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MUSTAFAH IBRAHIM
=================
STR 8
INT 18
DEX 15
BOD 11
EGO 13
PRE 12
COM 11
CON 12
REC 9
END 45
STN 45
POWERS & SKILLS:
====================
AK: Alexandria
AK: Beirut
AK: Hampton Roads
AK: Mediterranean
AK: Spain & Morrocco
Aid: 3 Dice, Any SFX, Any 1 Power, +2 to max, fade per hour (faith)
Bump of Direction
Climbing
Danger Sense 15- personal only (eyes of the janni)
Double-Jointed
Enchanced Hearing PER +5
KS: Astronomy
KS: Mathematics
KS: Navigation
KS: Koran
KS: Religious Literature
KS: Archaeology
Lang: Arabic (native)
Lang: Dutch
Lang: Egyptian
Lang: English
Lang: French
Lang: Spanish
Luck: 2dice (watchful eye of god)
PS: Accountant
PS: Administration
PS: Calligrpher
PS: Merchant Marine
Persuasion (Fast Talk)
Ranged Levels w/Guns: +2
Ranged Levels w/Knife: +4
Regeneration: 3 Body (will to live)
Running 13" total
Stealth
Streetwise
Survival
Swimming 9" total
Systems Operations
Transport Fam: Ships & Boats
Wpn. Fam: Guns
Wpn. Fam: Knives
DISADS:
=============
Dist.Feature: Annoying Accent
Dist.Features: Short & Swarthy
Dist.Features: Offensive to Catholics, Protestants, Jews, etc.
Physical Limit: Blurts out religious phrases often (Ex: Allah be praised!)
Dependence: Must say prayers to Mecca 3 times per day (1d6 stun)
Poor 5
Psych: Overconfident (except in total darkness)
Psych: Mildly Afraid of the Dark (Ego roll to remember Allah is near)
Psych: Vow to never take wine, drugs, alchohol, tobacco, etc.
Psych: Superstitiously carries the following equip:
EQUIPMENT:
=============
3 Knives
Astrolabe
Kuran
Pencil & Paper
Laptop Powerbook
Verse-Scroll Holder
Ibrahim lived practically as a slave on a Moroccan freighter since the
time he was 8. He has been all over the Med and the Atlantic. When he
was 19, his ship foundered. During the 33 day ordeal adrift at sea,
he led the other survivors in survival rituals, was credited with praying
down rain, caught the most fish, etc. He of course credits Allah for
all this and his powers. (Whether his experiences and blessing are genuine
or psychological depends on how you as GM run your supernatural world)
In my world, he was the genuine article.
His role in the one campaign he's been used in was a contact for dealers
and mid-eastern scholars, street people, or cargo. His current "job"
is as the first mate on a large Atlantic cruise liner. He keeps the
ships books and now he orders the deck boys around. In a pinch, he also
fills in for the captain on the bridge. The "Jasmine Queen" calls in
tourist ports from Beirut, Jaffa, Alexandria, Monte Carlo, Naples, Venice,
Cadiz, Marakesh, Lisbon, Azores, Newport News, Bermuda, Kitty Hawk,
etc. As such he is able to carry small items to and from nearly anywhere.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:45:25 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Superman silliness...was out running...
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At 06:10 AM 9/19/97 -0500, Earl Kwallek wrote:
>At 02:19 PM 9/18/97 +0600, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>>Didn't see this in the book... Like I said in another post, 4th Ed doesn't
>>allow for this (right?). Even the acting "again at half his Super-high Dex"
>>isn't specified. Actually, I couldn't even find the "higher than 12 SPD"
>>rule in the old Champs books, even though I remember it. Do you recall
>>where it is? Are you using it straight out of the book, or did you modify
>it?
>
> I own EVERY edition of the Champions Rules - believe me Speed OVER 12 has
>NEVER been "legal" in any of them...
>
> In fact, in the first 3 editions, the subject was never mentioned at all,
>allowing the power trippers to believe that the speed chart could just be
>"extended" to allow for it....
>
> However the "official" statement from every hero games person I've ever
>talked to about it is that "Speed over 12 is ludicrous and not allowed in
>the official rules or any published supplement" - (Perrin)
This is the first thing I've heard on the topic from any of the Hero
guys (though Steve Perrin at best only marginally counts as this IMO).
I've always assumed that, since an absolute max of 12 SPD was never
mentioned in any edition, that it was technically legal, but just "beyond
specs" (the rules just weren't designed to handle it, since it was never
expected to actually happen in any sane campaign, so if you wanted it you
were on your own).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:50:17 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: META: Opinon wanted.
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At 12:35 AM 9/19/97, you wrote:
>Just a quick question for the readers of this list:
>
>Is there enough of a diference in the audiences of this list and
>rec.games.frp.super-heroes to justify posting things like character
write-ups to both?
Probably. I'm one person who's on the list and not on the newsgroup;
and I understand that a few of the folks on the newsgroup tend to look down
their noses at the folks on the list, so they're not here.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:00:22 +0000
Subject: Reasonable justification of Power Defense (was Re: NNDs- Are the
Reply-to: ghoyle1@airmail.net
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> Reasonable justification is not the same as reasonably common.
> No doubt, in some campaigns Power Defense is reasonably common.
I guess that my point was lost. I was trying to make the point that
most GMs were failing to see a perfectly valid justification for
Power Defense within their campaigns. There's no reason that Power
Defense should be less common or less available in most campaigns
than Forcefields or Armor, all things being equal. In superhero
campaigns there should be few problems in obtaining it; I wouldn't
even hesitate to include it in my Justice, Inc. campaign (though I
wouldn't make it ubiquitous, just difficult to obtain).
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:51:18 -0400
Subject: Re: NNDs- Are they broken?
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From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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Reasonable justification is not the same as reasonably common.
No doubt, in some campaigns Power Defense is reasonably common.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
The Computer wants you to be happy.
If you are not happy, you will be used as reactor shielding.
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:52:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: [New Gods]
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On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, John Desmarais wrote:
...
>
> Mother Box (or a poor facsimile thereof)
>
> 20 INT 10
> 10 DEX 0
> 2 SPD 0
> 12 EGO 4
> Characteristics Cost: 14
>
> 35 16- Danger Sense,any attack,immediate vicinity
> 17 +6 Detect,make into sense,Desc: Life
> 10 360 Degree Sensing,Unusual Sense Group
> 180 VPP (90),can change powers as 0 phase
> 33 VPP Manipulation 28-
> 11 100/1 End Reserve
>
> Powers Cost: 286
> Total Cost: 300
>
> Base Points: 100
> 25 Psych Lim,"Enigmatic Motivations",very common,total
> 175 Kirby Bonus
>
> Disadvantages Total: 200
> Experience Spent: 0
> Total Points: 300
>
>
Very brave of you to write up the ultimate plot device - but of course,
that's what VPP's are for.
Overall, I really like your write-ups. I might add a few things, seeing
how these are *gods* - a "God" Perk for one, and I'd probably give them
all higher PRE scores. In addition (and I can't give any strong support to
this from the comics), I might give them all some Power Defense: godhood,
indicating characters whose existence is very much defined by their
essence, always seemed to me to be one of the few good justifications of
that hopelessly vague defense.
You might want to write up one of the most common powers employed by the
Mother Boxes - the Boom Tube. A teleport with a few advantages, plus (or
maybe instead) Extradimensional Movement, should pretty much cover it,
though I'd also toss in a PRE bonus; even though teleportation is
relatively common in the DC Universe, the opening of a Boom Tube is a
dramatic event. (Besides, they make a big "BOOM" noise!)
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 17:55:24
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: CHAR: [New Gods]
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On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:52:17 -0400 (EDT), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>Very brave of you to write up the ultimate plot device - but of course,
>that's what VPP's are for.
>
>Overall, I really like your write-ups. I might add a few things, seeing
>how these are *gods* - a "God" Perk for one, and I'd probably give them
>all higher PRE scores. In addition (and I can't give any strong support to
>this from the comics), I might give them all some Power Defense: godhood,
>indicating characters whose existence is very much defined by their
>essence, always seemed to me to be one of the few good justifications of
>that hopelessly vague defense.
Okay folks, here's the question. What does the perk "god" get you you and what would
it cost?
>You might want to write up one of the most common powers employed by the
>Mother Boxes - the Boom Tube. A teleport with a few advantages, plus (or
>maybe instead) Extradimensional Movement, should pretty much cover it,
>though I'd also toss in a PRE bonus; even though teleportation is
>relatively common in the DC Universe, the opening of a Boom Tube is a
>dramatic event. (Besides, they make a big "BOOM" noise!)
If I get ambitious I'll do up an expanded write-up of a mother box as a separate post.
-=>John Desmarais
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:16:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: New Gods?
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Had a few days of network problems and lost the posted new gods.
Could someone please send them to me privately?
-Tim Gilberg
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 20:29:37
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
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On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:41:27 -0400 (EDT), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>I think most people are in agreement that Dive for Cover can simulate
>outrunning an explosion. The problem (as I see it, anyway) is with
>explosions taking place over extremely large areas. A Dive for 5 or 10
>inches should be pretty easy for a high-DEX speedster, especially with
>those skill levels. But just try diving a couple of *miles* with a -1 per
>1" penalty (have I got that right?)
>
>Those large explosions, I think, just call for a GM special effects call.
>I can certainly think of some effects built with an explosion advantage
>that would be genuinely instantaneous, but a typical bomb might have a
>shockwave that would spread out at a speed which a hero might outrun.
Why not just have a Transport effect, xN NCM, Only For Escaping
Explosions (-2)? Because the hero is running away, you can justifiably
omit the location.
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at punt-1.mail.demon.net
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:58:26 +0100
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---
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: 18 September 1997 07:24
Subject: Re: Outrunning an Explosion...
>Mark Lemming wrote:
>>>Superman flying high above the streets of Metropolis sees bad
>>> guys with his super-vision about to shoot innocents, he swoops down
>>> from 400 meters away to bounce the bullets: This would be a -200
penalty
>>> with a standard Dive for Cover.)
>>>
>>For Superman in the example above:
>>He sees bad guys about to shoot innocents.
>>He decides not to use his heat vision to turn the bad guys to ash.
>>He finishes his half move and then dives the 1".
>>
>No, I don't think so. I thought it was something like this. Segment 12,
>they act and everything. Segment 1, the bad guys had held their Action,
and
>decide to use it to shoot the innocent. Supes didn't hold his Action.
The
>only way for him to reach them is to... Dive for Cover. At a -200
penalty.
>You can't Abort to a Movement Power, and even if you could, that's your
only
>action. You couldn't Abort to a Move, and then a Dive for Cover.
>
Why not let speedsters abort to a movement power as a GM call?
According to my rulebook (don't ask me what edition it is.. I don't know
(unless someone wants to tell me!)) you can't USUALLY use a held move to go
for a movement power either...
Obviously for most PC's in most genres this would apply. Being able to hold
a phase or abort to a movement power is silly (Even Aunt May could dodge a
bullet if she was ready!) but lets face it:
THESE GUYS ARE SUPERFAST! Maybe doing this kind of thing every know and
again (perhaps with a dex roll related to Dive for Cover?) ask a perk of
being a speedy kind of a guy?
If that doesn't satisfy you, how about a slight alteration to the dive for
cover rules:
IDEA ONE:
My rules say that if you miss the dive for cover roll you are consiidered
to be n the air in your original hex. Why not change this so that, if you
miss roll, you only make it half way?
IDEA TWO:
You start off moving your full movement away from the bomb blast/towards
the bullets. Now for every point you miss the required dice roll by you
knock of a proportion of that movement.... as to what proportion...... I
don't know (maybe someone else can follow this one through)
IDEA THREE (OR IS THIS A QUESTION).
Now, I have just been reading my rulebook, and theres that section on
movement which explains the difference between combat and noncombat
movement. It's goes on to explain how a character can only accelerate and
decelerate by his/her combat movement, taking several phases to get up to
full speed and several to come back down.
At this point I confuse myself.
If you are moving noncombat, do you uses actions to do so??
Having read through these rules once, it doesn't look like you do. I mean,
if you do, then you could be heading a brick wall and think "Pants! I'm
going to hit that brick wall" but you can INSTANTLY halve your velocity by
only taking a half move and then say switching on your forcefield!
I am sure that you do use phases even when moving noncombat (does movin
gnoncombat take 0 phases perhaps?). If I am correct, then the Superman
problem is solved by the fact that he was moving noncombat and so could
easily be maintaining a held phase. I mean, you're Superman, your'e on
patrol, ready to RACE/SPRING/DIVE FOR COVER into action as soon as danger
rears it's head and you DON'T have a held phase????? Some hero.....
TTFN from Chris!
http://www.lynch1.demon.co.uk
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:11:13 -0400
From: Charles Badger <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: META: Opinon wanted.
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At 05:50 09/19/97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 12:35 AM 9/19/97, you wrote:
>>Just a quick question for the readers of this list:
>>
>>Is there enough of a diference in the audiences of this list and
>>rec.games.frp.super-heroes to justify posting things like character
>write-ups to both?
>
> Probably. I'm one person who's on the list and not on the newsgroup;
>and I understand that a few of the folks on the newsgroup tend to look down
>their noses at the folks on the list, so they're not here.
Also there's those of us who's ISP doesn't get that group in their news feed.
-----
Charles T. Badger
X-Sender: dalger@thyme.cisco.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:35:55 -0700
From: Douglas Alger <dalger@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [New Gods]
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>Okay folks, here's the question. What does the perk "god" get you and
>what would it cost?
I'm playing in a campaign where a character has a 10-point perk of being a
genuine saint. While his status is largely overlooked by the masses, it
has been extremely handy those occasional times he has encountered vampires
and other unholy types, by tripping some of their appropriate
susceptibilities. Higher-ups in most of the major religions seem to
unconsciously defer to his opinions quite a lot, too...
I think the perk's cost and benefits depend a lot upon how the publics
react to the character. If the general public and established authorities
(world leaders, the Pope, etc.) will bow, scrape, grovel, build temples,
whatever - then it's probably as much as 15 points. If most folks won't
know or recognize the character's divinity then it's probably only 5 points.
Just my 2 cents...
- Doug
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:53:27 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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-> From jrc@mail1.nai.net Fri Sep 19 16:49:23 1997
->
-> I once created a Taoist metal sorceror with something like this, "Cage of
-> the Five Lightnings." I built it as an RKA, Autofire, AE: Hex,
-> Non-selective target, Hole in the Middle, and Trigger: entering or leaving
-> the hex. It seemed to work ok, either for attack (imprisoning an enemy) or
-> defense (cast it around yourself, and no-one can attack you hand to hand
-> without going through it unless they use a pole arm).
->
But is sure is embarrassing when you get hit with an energy blast that does
knockback.
-Sam
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:34:11 -0500
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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psansone@i1.net (Sparx) wrote,
>Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
>interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
>Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
>actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
>through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
>to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
>it easy and talk at you later.
>Sparx
I once created a Taoist metal sorceror with something like this, "Cage of
the Five Lightnings." I built it as an RKA, Autofire, AE: Hex,
Non-selective target, Hole in the Middle, and Trigger: entering or leaving
the hex. It seemed to work ok, either for attack (imprisoning an enemy) or
defense (cast it around yourself, and no-one can attack you hand to hand
without going through it unless they use a pole arm).
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: I don't think so, Tim.
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:58:20 -0400
Subject: Re: XP Awards (was Re: NND & Variable special effect)
Priority: normal
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>
> > I've seen that game, but not examined it closely.
> > I wonder... how much of this type of thing does exist in other game
> > systems, comedic or otherwise? What, for example, do players get rewarded
> > for in Paranoia (assuming that's not Ultraviolet Security)?
>
>
> There's XP in Paranoia? I didn't think you were supposed to get
> through more than one session with a character. {grin}
I actually ran across one article that proposed that if you start out as
Red, and survive one mission, you get promoted to Orange; survive 2 more,
get promoted to Yellow; another 3, to Green; and so on.
Mind you, any Paranoia GM who allows his players to actually *get* that
far...
--M, who is reporting to the nearest Termination Center.
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE/UBE will be crucified. ***
"Katy, you're a freshman. Find 2,000 people."
--Droz, _PCU_
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:28:03 -0400
Subject: Re:Power Defense Justification
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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That's a decent justification. I run a contemporary Templar with some
Limited Power Defense, which touches upon your religious motif.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
The Computer wants you to be happy.
If you are not happy, you will be used as reactor shielding.
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:03:15 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Hocus Focus
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limited variable power pool, like a gadget pool? or just an 'only while' (holding ect)
limitation. ..
At 05:34 PM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have an idea for a type of focus, but I'm having trouble building it.
>Terry the Telepath can read people's minds, but only if he has a personal
>possession of theirs (eg a favorite shirt, a strand of hair, etc). He
>needs a seperate focus for each potential target. Anyone have any ideas
>on how this could be implemented?
>
>-Eric
>
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:12:27 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re:Power Defense Justification
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power defence can also be defined metabolically. it's simply a case of a character being made of sterner stuff than most, harder to drain and so forth. or has somebody already mentioned this? 8g*
At 09:28 PM 9/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>That's a decent justification. I run a contemporary Templar with some
>Limited Power Defense, which touches upon your religious motif.
>
> Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
>The Computer wants you to be happy.
>If you are not happy, you will be used as reactor shielding.
>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 19 Sep 1997 22:43:46 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "JC" == Joe Claffey <jrc@mail1.nai.net> writes:
JC> I once created a Taoist metal sorceror with something like this, "Cage
JC> of the Five Lightnings." I built it as an RKA, Autofire, AE: Hex,
JC> Non-selective target, Hole in the Middle, and Trigger: entering or
JC> leaving the hex.
The Trigger is superfluous. By nature, entering or leaving an AoE subjects
one to the effects of that power.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
From: "VANSICKLE, James" <JVansickle@usae001.shl.com>
Cc: "'champ-l@omg.org'" <champ-l@omg.org>
Subject: RE: Power Defense Justification
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:15:37 -0500
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I have seen Shape Shifters use it with the justification that if they
can control their body to that extent, they should be able to resist
something like a Transform.
>----------
>From: William G Geiger[SMTP:willggeiger@juno.com]
>Sent: Friday, September 19, 1997 10:09 PM
>To: champ-l@omg.org
>Cc: champ-l@omg.org
>Subject: Re:Power Defense Justification
>
>That's a decent justification. I run a contemporary Templar with some
>Limited Power Defense, which touches upon your religious motif.
>
> Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
>The Computer wants you to be happy.
>If you are not happy, you will be used as reactor shielding.
>
>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 19 Sep 1997 23:21:51 -0400
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>>>>> "Rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:
Rat> The Trigger is superfluous. By nature, entering or leaving an AoE
Rat> subjects one to the effects of that power.
Let me emmend that slightly: simply being within the area of effect of an
AoE power subjects one to effects of that power.
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\
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:39:05 +1000
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Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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At 11:21 PM 9/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "Rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:
>
>Rat> The Trigger is superfluous. By nature, entering or leaving an AoE
>Rat> subjects one to the effects of that power.
>
>Let me emmend that slightly: simply being within the area of effect of an
>AoE power subjects one to effects of that power.
>
how about an area effect which goes off if the person tries to leave the hex?
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:31 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Paranoia [was;XP Awards]
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> > For example, in one game some players allowed a scrubbot
> > to clean the brain of the world's most powerful warbot, thus ruining
> > it. One of them called in a favor, and got a friend sent over with
> > orders to inspect the warbot. When the friend opened the braincase,
> > they shot him and blamed him. The forged inspection order he carried
> > was enough to save them. Got them bonus points, too
>
> I like that.
<<....>>
> Well, I've only played the game once, and that was at a GenCon
> game this year. Everyone lost at least three clones, one player lost
> five. At one time the entire team was dead.
>
> It was great, however, because the GM did very little of the
> killing. (Except maybe for some ammunition that happened to be in the
> line of fire.) We were all quite fervrent in our attempt to toadie
> support from the computer and to not be considered traitorous. For that,
> we killed each other as much as possible -- usually with a cry of "He's a
> traitor!"
>
> It was only coincidence that we barely started our first of three
> missions, really.
>
> -Tim Gilberg
I only had the opportunity to play the game once, but I had a blast;
the other players got carried away trying to actually survive the game
and figure out how things work. I on the other hand simply went with
the flow and spouted out whatever would be the most 'computer-friendly'
at any given time. Ironically, the game ended with me only on my second
clone and everyone else was on #5 or 6...
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:09:02 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Lightning Cage...
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E. David Miller wrote:
>
> >Ok, new question, can you tell I've been playing with some creative and
> >interesting people as of late? I have a player who wants to create a
> >Lightning Cage with his powers. Sort of like an Entangle, but it doesn't
> >actually hold the person, just does damage to them if they try to pass
> >through it. I'm sure I know how to do this, but right now, it isn't coming
> >to me, so I turn to the list. How would you design a lightning cage? Take
> >it easy and talk at you later.
> >Sparx
>
> EB (or RKA), Hex AOE, Continuous, Only around the edges (-?)
>
> I would probably make that one a -1; if the player used it often on
> moving people so as to nail them because they can't get stopped in time,
> then reduce it to a -1/2. You will probably want to include some level of
> either force wall or entangle, linked, so as to represent that just because
> you take the damage does not mean you get out.
>
> Or, build the force wall or the entangle as the larger power, and then link
> the EB/RKA to it, -1/4 limitation of only goes off on breakout attempts. ?
>
> Other ideas?
> David Miller
Actually, I think the Force Wall is a good idea, possibly with a
limitation that it must be a closed configuration every use (-1/4?
-1/2?), and then buy the damage as a Damage Shield, linked to the FW,
rather than a DS on the character. This configuration may be pricey,
but it gives some well-defined results;
1)The Force Wall would give a definitive 'defense' to the 'entangle',
but would remain at full strength until overcome in one shot,
2)The Damage Shield would accurately reflect the relative safety of the
character who just sits in the Lightning Cage without trying to break
out.
I believe that Force Walls (and force fields, for that matter) can
also be made transparent to PD or ED, if that is desired, though, I
don't remember if that is in the BBB or one of the HSAlmanacs...
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Comments: Authenticated sender is <swhbfssg@pop.softnet.co.uk>
From: "MarkBarltrop" <Mark.Barltrop@kzin.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:08:07 +0100
Subject: Re: Hocus Focus
Reply-to: tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk
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On 18 Sep 97 at 17:34, Eric Burns wrote:
> I have an idea for a type of focus, but I'm having trouble building
> it. Terry the Telepath can read people's minds, but only if he has a
> personal possession of theirs (eg a favorite shirt, a strand of
> hair, etc). He needs a seperate focus for each potential target.
> Anyone have any ideas on how this could be implemented?
>
treat each item as a breakable, fragile, personal focus.
If he can carry multiple possessions for each person (several strands
of hair, couple of socks, etc) then the focus will be inaccessible
(if one gets taken out of his hands, he just takes another one out of
his pocket).Obvious or inobvious will depend on whether he does have
to hold it in his hands or display it obviously, or just has to have
it on his person
An additional limitation would be appropriate to reflect the need to
get something belonging to someone before Terry can use his power on
them - but this depends so much on how the GM wants to play this that
I won't attempt to set a value on it.
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk)
'What is it?'
'Its a wolf!'
'In a city? What does it find to eat?'
'Oh, why did you have to ask that?'
(Terry Pratchett,'Feet of Clay')
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Fw: New PBEM campaign
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:47:44 +0100
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Still looking for a few good men and women
----
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: 17 September 1997 11:50
Subject: New PBEM campaign
>I am going to have a go at starting my own PBEM. This is something that I
>have never done before, and the whole thing is going to be highly
>experimental!
>
>I am looking for players with time to spare, patience (I just told you...
I
>haven't doen this before!), and as much expertise as possible.
>
>Attached are the campaign guidelines and a brief history of the campaign
>world.
>All questions answered, all players welcome....
>
>(Advice from practicing PBEM GM's also appreciated!!!)
>
>TTFN from Chris!
>http://www.lynch1.demon.co.uk
>
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From: "MarkBarltrop" <Mark.Barltrop@kzin.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:15:17 +0100
Subject: You can't have too much maths!(was:Re: Hero System formula)
Reply-to: tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk
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On 18 Sep 97 at 10:09, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> Mark Baltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk) wrote:
> >On 15 Sep 97 at 23:05, Stephen B. Mann wrote:
> >> Can anyone out there tell me how to convert Hero STR to weight
> >> lifted? I know that a 20 STR can lift 200 kb, but how much can a 31
> >> STR lift?
> >(Actually 20 STR can lift 400 Kg)
> >25* (2^ (STR/5)) Kg
> >> Similarly, how fast is SPD 8, 13" Running, with x4 noncombat
> >> multiplier in MPH? How do I convert these numbers to real world
> >> measurements?
> >(SPD*Move*NCM)*0.6 KPH (or *0 .37 MPH)
> >
> Okay, so you actually figured out the equation for STR.
> Which makes
> it look more elegant than mine. : P
> But how do *you* feel about the fact that the formula value
> and book
> value of, say, 33 STR differ? Why doesn't Hero use a straight
> exponential? Too much math? That's like closing the barn door after
> the horse is already gone.
>
The formula gives 606 Kg for 23STR, whereas the BBB says 600.
Close enough for me- I'm more concerned by the more obvious fudges
like the time chart. I think you've got a point about horses and barn
doors - As well as consolidating all the different hero system rules
into one whole (a Good thing, on balance), 4th edition tends to
simplify what its inherited from earlier editions - You only have to
look at Fuzion/CNM to see what they'd do if they were writing Champs
from scratch today. I guess they think today's Storyteller/CCG
players won't (or Can't :-)) handle the maths.
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@kzin.softnet.co.uk)
'What is it?'
'Its a wolf!'
'In a city? What does it find to eat?'
'Oh, why did you have to ask that?'
(Terry Pratchett,'Feet of Clay')
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:25:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: [New Gods]
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>
> Okay folks, here's the question. What does the perk "god" get you you and what would
> it cost?
This is really a campaign-by-campaign thing.
Some campaigns it would mean just about nothing; in others it
grants a recognition of authority and power with the ability to affect
the world situation on a whim.
Gm's call.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:27:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: New Gods
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O.K. Thanks for the response on sending me the New Gods.
I just hope that the network fix we utilized holds up.
-Tim Gilberg
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
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Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 11:18 AM