Week Ending April 11, 1998
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Retcons (Was Re: Independent Focus)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:21:52 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >Finally, since the past has become so mutable in comics, even changes
that
> >are framed as "surprising revelations" or "new discoveries" sometimes
get
> >labelled retcons if they change what had previously been assumed about
the
> >character. For example, Batman might refer to a case early in his career
> >which has never previously been published - some readers would describe
> >this as a retcon. This third sense is what "qts" meant, I think: a new
> >revelation about the sword, even if neither the player, the character,
nor
> >the GM had thought of it earlier.
>
> Errr, not quite, I meant Retroactive Construction - ie you go back and
> change the character sheet. This also implies what you state, but
> doesn't state it explicitly. After all, we're talking HERO here, not
> comics.
>
another idea is to play 'never needed it before'- spend xp on abilities
your character always had, but just now started to use. .
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Villain Name
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:32:06 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
----------
> From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org; Tim R. Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
> Subject: Re: Villain Name
> Date: Sunday, April 05, 1998 8:05 AM
>
> On Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:01:18 -0600 (CST), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> >
> >> >Does anyone recall any characters from comic books, RPGs, etc., named
Lord
> >> >Bane?
> >>
> >> >From TSRs Forgotten Realms. A deity, if memory serves.
> >
> > That would be it. I remember him from the whatever Avatars
> >Forgotten Realms series. (Hey, be nice. I was young and didn't know
how
> >I was wasting my valuable reading time!)
>
> I'm sorry, young man. Not only must justice be done, but it must be
> seen to be done. I hereby sentence you to appear on Blind Date.
>
heh. we abolished dating show years ago- ((of course there was that one
last year where couples competed for the chance to be married on tv))-
but my post is about bane- obviously that's the bane he meant, but has
anyone
heard of another bane, apart from the batman one and the novel mentioned
earlier?
i'm sure there was a cartooon or something with a 'bane' in it.
> <g>
>
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block and Casual STR
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 04 Apr 1998 21:58:00 -0400
Lines: 26
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "RAW" == Robert A West <robtwest@erols.com> writes:
RAW> But, there is not a single defined SFX for the character.
This is intentional. A single combat manevuer may be used to represent a
plethora of combat techniques. A character might know two hundred
distinctly different techniques for "blocking" a particular category of
strike techniques; he needs only "Martial Block" and the appropriate
Knowledge Skill(s) to encompass all of his techniques.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSblJp6VRH7BJMxHAQGdTwQAo0kur9eBUOBG8tS2GI1loKF5K1GFQlbu
nF3t7LJ3rbEG0Fq8s6k+jP4Xqe2a6hkKanxYUogsjV9WHIsTwGvy6omnbzX+pYlZ
QOaHp9mPJJW85/b/hZFOrOfSaadSEQCaXSDueEexNwex7YeKozi418+Q8xEAzbkw
M95C/WUiSqo=
=sb1n
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Villain Name
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:34:51 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>
>
> > heh. we abolished dating show years ago- ((of course there was that one
> > last year where couples competed for the chance to be married on tv))-
> > but my post is about bane- obviously that's the bane he meant, but has
> > anyone
> > heard of another bane, apart from the batman one and the novel
mentioned
> > earlier?
> > i'm sure there was a cartooon or something with a 'bane' in it.
>
> Well, The Simpsons has an occasionally appearing character named
> "McBain".
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
> -"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
that's the one! :->~
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:45:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Villain Name
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> heh. we abolished dating show years ago- ((of course there was that one
> last year where couples competed for the chance to be married on tv))-
> but my post is about bane- obviously that's the bane he meant, but has
> anyone
> heard of another bane, apart from the batman one and the novel mentioned
> earlier?
> i'm sure there was a cartooon or something with a 'bane' in it.
Well, The Simpsons has an occasionally appearing character named
"McBain".
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:04:50 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:56 PM 4/5/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you point
>up a Memory Eraser? Mind Control at a sufficient level makes the target
>forget the Mind Control and the events under its influence, but the
>command will eventually wear off. A command to "Forget the last 5
>Minutes" will wear off eventually, and the target will remember.
TUM has a nice chart for using Dispel BOECV for affecting the mind,
listing the following as Active Points of what's being deleted (slightly
paraphrased below):
Object Value
Berserk/Enranged Cost
Fact, minor importance 5
", medium importance 10
", major importance 15
", extreme importance 20
Memory, weak 10
", medium strength 15
", strong/important/intense 20
", extremely strong/intense 25
Mental Signature* 10
Mental Power AP Cost
Mental Tag* 15
Mental Trace* 10
Mental Trap* AP Cost
Psychological Limitation Cost
Psychosomatic Limitation* Cost
Skill 17+AP Cost
*Don't panic if you don't understand these terms.
So if you want something that will cause the target to forget everything
that happened in the preceding 5 minutes, you'd probably want to assume
that the experience was a fairly intense one, and have enough Dispel to
erase 20 points' worth with an average Roll (6d6, or 18 points' worth).
Add BOECV and Range, and the total cost is 45 points. You can be happy
with that, or add an extra 2d6 and make the total Active Cost the
ubiquitous 60 points, or another +1 Advantage (say, Area Effect, or
Explosion at +2" per DC lost) to make it worth 63 points.
Add further Modifiers to taste.
>I always try very hard to find an option other than Transform, regarding
>it as the power of last resort.
A good philosophy, in my view. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out5.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out5.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.245
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 20:12:46
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:22:39 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>The main characters in DC's way cool series "Watchmen" were based on
>characters created by *another* comic company that DC bought. For
>example, Nite Owl II is pretty much the Blue Beetle, Dr. Manhattan is Cpt.
>Atom and Rorschach is The Question. Does anyone know who Comedian,
>Ozymandias and Silk Spectre were based off of? (I think Comedian is
>Peacemaker...)
Comedian: Peacemaker
Ozymandias: Thunderbolt (Peter Cannon)
Silk Spectre: Nightshade
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp2.erols.com ip 207.172.3.235
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:47:13 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Block and Casual STR
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "RAW" == Robert A West <robtwest@erols.com> writes:
>
> RAW> But, there is not a single defined SFX for the character.
>
> This is intentional. A single combat manevuer may be used to represent a
> plethora of combat techniques.
My point exactly. It was you who were claiming otherwise.
> A character might know two hundred
> distinctly different techniques for "blocking" a particular category of
> strike techniques;
Well, 200 *distinctly different* techniques for *each strike technique*
is a bit overboard -- I am not sure there is that much difference under
the present discussion between a direct and a circular parry.
> he needs only "Martial Block" and the appropriate
> Knowledge Skill(s) to encompass all of his techniques.
But, a combatant does not have a free choice of techniques; each exists
to handle a type of circumstance. If, for any reason, one or more of
those techniques are unavailable to a combatant, then he is at a
disadvantage. At some difference in strength, a bind become impossible
and corps-a-corps becomes a losing proposition; at a greater difference,
a beat fails, and ultimtely even a glide becomes impossible. The weaker
opponent's repertoire becomes more restricted, reducing his
effectiveness.
Now, at reasonable differences in STR, I have no problem with ignoring
the game effect. Athletic normals are in the range 10-20, and my
proposed rule would only constitute a -1 at the extreme difference.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp2.erols.com ip 207.172.3.235
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:56:35 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you point
up a Memory Eraser? Mind Control at a sufficient level makes the target
forget the Mind Control and the events under its influence, but the
command will eventually wear off. A command to "Forget the last 5
Minutes" will wear off eventually, and the target will remember.
I always try very hard to find an option other than Transform, regarding
it as the power of last resort.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arthur.avalon.net from pod@avalon.net server root@arthur.avalon.net ip 204.71.106.20
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:42:00 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: pod@avalon.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Palace of Dwarves <pod@avalon.net>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:56 PM 4/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you point
>up a Memory Eraser? Mind Control at a sufficient level makes the target
>forget the Mind Control and the events under its influence, but the
>command will eventually wear off. A command to "Forget the last 5
>Minutes" will wear off eventually, and the target will remember.
>
>I always try very hard to find an option other than Transform, regarding
>it as the power of last resort.
>
>--
><------------------------------------------------------->
>Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
>Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
>http://www.erols.com/robtwest
>
I would have to say the taking a look in the UM would be your best
shot. I know that the last time that I looked threough it, that it gave a
lot of ideas for mentalist characters.
But yeah, doing a Transform BOECV would be the best bet to go with.
Depending on how mush memory you would be looking to erase, would depend on
the type of transform that would be used (cosmetic, minor, major).
-Dan
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo elvis.vnet.net from johnl@vnet.net server @elvis.vnet.net ip 166.82.1.5
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:13:12 GMT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:56:35 -0700, you wrote:
>A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you point
>up a Memory Eraser? Mind Control at a sufficient level makes the target
>forget the Mind Control and the events under its influence, but the
>command will eventually wear off. A command to "Forget the last 5
>Minutes" will wear off eventually, and the target will remember.
>
>I always try very hard to find an option other than Transform, regarding
>it as the power of last resort.
If you look at Telepathy, getting enough levels above the target's EGO
will allow the mentalist to alter deep memories and plant incorrect
ones. This is similar to erasing memories and replacing them with
nothing at all, and that's how I allow this to happen in my campaign.
The rules on this were either in the Ultimate Mentalist or in the BBB.
John Lansford
http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/intro.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access4.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access4.digex.net ip 205.197.245.195
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:22:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
The main characters in DC's way cool series "Watchmen" were based on
characters created by *another* comic company that DC bought. For
example, Nite Owl II is pretty much the Blue Beetle, Dr. Manhattan is Cpt.
Atom and Rorschach is The Question. Does anyone know who Comedian,
Ozymandias and Silk Spectre were based off of? (I think Comedian is
Peacemaker...)
PS: Can you tell what my latest adpations are? (yeah, and I'm still
tinkering with Devil Hunter Yoko)
Serious, I hope to have both the Minutemen *and* the Watchmen out in a few
weeks.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:05:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>The main characters in DC's way cool series "Watchmen" were based on
>characters created by *another* comic company that DC bought. For
>example, Nite Owl II is pretty much the Blue Beetle, Dr. Manhattan is
>Cpt.
>Atom and Rorschach is The Question. Does anyone know who Comedian,
>Ozymandias and Silk Spectre were based off of? (I think Comedian is
>Peacemaker...)
Silk Spectre: Nightshade without powers is my guess
Ozymandias: Actually, I think *he's* Peacemaker
Comedian: No idea
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 16:12:07 -0700
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@omg.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Here's an idea for critical hits that I thought up a couple of weeks
ago. It does have a few holes in it (like the fact that there's no
Critical Miss equivalent), but I think it's something worth considering.
The idea came to me when I was wondering about Find Weakness. If an
expert can find a weakness by training (or whatever), why couldn't someone
occasionally find one by accident? How would that work?
So my rule suggestion is that this is exactly what happens when someone
rolls a natural 3 on an Attack Roll.
This form of Find Weakness is DEX-based instead of INT-based, and cannot
be bought up (since it's a combat event and not a Skill). Skill Levels do
not apply to it (not even Overall Levels). However, the character does get
a +1 for every 2 points the Attack Roll was actually made by. (If an 11 is
needed and a 3 is rolled, that's a difference of 8, so the character gets a
+4 to the Find Weakness.) If the target has Luck, then he may also get a
+1 for every level of Luck rolled.
The target's Lack of Weakness, if any, does apply to this Find Weakness.
The attacker may continue to roll Find Weakness, with the usual
cumulative penalty of -2 per successive Roll, until he misses one. Each
successful Roll cuts the target's defenses in half *for that attack only*.
Now, right off-hand, I can see a couple of problems with this:
1) As mentioned above, there's no "critical miss" equivalent to balance
this; if anyone has ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
2) It introduces yet more die-rolling to the game; in fact, when
invoked, there's a likely average of around 3 additional rolls each time.
(This could be fixed by making just one Find Weakness Roll, and halving the
target's defenses for every +2 that it's made by.)
On the other hand, it has these strengths:
1) It increases the damage actually done without messing with the basic
amount done, making it arguably just a little more true-to-life than just
declaring that maximum damage is done.
2) Its effect is variable -- some hits are more critical than others.
3) It covers an occurrance (accidental Find Weakness) that logically
should be able to happen from time to time.
4) The problems mentioned above are mitigated somewhat by two things:
(a) it will only happen in one Attack Roll out of 216, and (b) it's as
likely to happen to the bad guys as to the PCs.
If this idea goes over reasonably well with the list, I may add an
adaptation of this rule to my Diceless Combat System.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:39:28 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Actually, this illustrates why I dislike using Transforms. IMO, erasing
>a memory, no matter how brief, is more than Cosmetic. A Major Transform
>can erase all memories and replace them with completely different ones.
>This leaves Minor Transform to do all the work in the middle. Yecchh!
Not really. With a Cosmetic Transform you could change very minor memories
("What color was his suit?" "Uh...blue!" <zworp!> "Uh...green!"). Minor
Transform could change more important events ("What kind of weapon did he
pull out?" "A 9mm automatic pistol!" <zworp!> "No, uh, a sawed-off
shotgun!"), and Major Transform would affect the really important memories
("And did you see the man's face?" "Yeah, it was Fred!!" <zworp!> "Uh, I
mean, it was Jacob!").
To help model this, Cosmetic would only affect memories that somebody with
Eidetic Memory would easily remember. Minor would be good for stuff anyone
would remember on a successful INT roll. Major would be for stuff people
just don't forget under normal circumstances. Given the nature of
superheroic comics, most memories would be Major, after all, you seldom
forget the fact that Psionia just made Banjo Bob's head explode.
To simply 'erase' memories, I think an BOECV RKA (Does BODY) would be
appropriate (with Indirect at the full level). So long as the appropriate
limitations are piled on it to prevent abuse (a BOECV Does Body Fully
Indirect RKA is powerful!), I'd allow it, though Transdimensional should
probably be tacked on as well (treating the person's memories as a
'dimension'; you use Telepathy to target the power).
But it's messy, right? Simple BOECV Major Transform is probably the ticket.
1D6 Major Transform, BOECV (+1), Cumulative (+1/2), Invisible to Sight and
Sound (+3/4), Indirect (+1/2) = 65 Active Points. Most mentalists could fit
this into their Multipower.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp1.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp1.erols.com ip 207.172.3.234
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:40:04 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Palace of Dwarves wrote:
>
> At 01:56 PM 4/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you point
> >up a Memory Eraser?
>
> I would have to say the taking a look in the UM would be your best
> shot. I know that the last time that I looked threough it, that it gave a
> lot of ideas for mentalist characters.
Well, it is out of print according to all the stores I have checked, and
I am not thrilled with the Hero Plus CD concept -- it looks as if I may
have to break down and go with that.
I did think about a Mind Control bought Uncontrolled as a Continuing
Charge of duration 25 years(+1 1/2 if a single charge) to prevent the EGO
roll from improving over time.
> But yeah, doing a Transform BOECV would be the best bet to go with.
> Depending on how mush memory you would be looking to erase, would depend on
> the type of transform that would be used (cosmetic, minor, major).
Actually, this illustrates why I dislike using Transforms. IMO, erasing
a memory, no matter how brief, is more than Cosmetic. A Major Transform
can erase all memories and replace them with completely different ones.
This leaves Minor Transform to do all the work in the middle. Yecchh!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:24:42 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
At 06:22 PM 4/5/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>The main characters in DC's way cool series "Watchmen" were based on
>characters created by *another* comic company that DC bought. For
>example, Nite Owl II is pretty much the Blue Beetle, Dr. Manhattan
is Cpt.
>Atom and Rorschach is The Question. Does anyone know who Comedian,
>Ozymandias and Silk Spectre were based off of? (I think Comedian is
>Peacemaker...)
>
>PS: Can you tell what my latest adpations are? (yeah, and I'm still
>tinkering with Devil Hunter Yoko)
>
>Serious, I hope to have both the Minutemen *and* the Watchmen out in
a few
>weeks.
>
Do you have access to the excellent Watchmen sourcebook published for
DC Heroes? A LOT of details that never made it into the comics, esp.
about the Minutemen. All approved by Moore, IIRC.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNShnGTKf8mIpTvjWEQLPEACg86ZS6MiaMuF/4P4IQzdqXxJZN1IAn2WH
G+mR9D2pOiY0vEnq/hQBMO+0
=kVi2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:05:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Lizard wrote:
> >Seriously, I hope to have both the Minutemen *and* the Watchmen out in
> >a few weeks.
> >
> Do you have access to the excellent Watchmen sourcebook published for
> DC Heroes? A LOT of details that never made it into the comics, esp.
> about the Minutemen. All approved by Moore, IIRC.
Yes. I have the two Watchmen adventures put out for DC Heroes, as well as
the AC conversion issue.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from stevel1979@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: SteveL1979 <SteveL1979@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:15:06 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
In a message dated 98-04-06 07:44:34 EDT, you write:
<< > Do you have access to the excellent Watchmen sourcebook published for
> DC Heroes? A LOT of details that never made it into the comics, esp.
> about the Minutemen. All approved by Moore, IIRC.
Yes. I have the two Watchmen adventures put out for DC Heroes, as well as
the AC conversion issue. >>
There was also a specific WATCHMEN *sourcebook* in addition to the two
scenarios; it contains a lot of useful info that would help you write up the
characters in Hero System stats.
Steve Long
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo babar.ins.cwru.edu from wga@po.cwru.edu server root@babar.INS.CWRU.Edu ip 129.22.8.213
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:16:40 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Will Austin <wga@po.CWRU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
<x-rich>At 08:12 PM 4/5/98, you wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:22:39 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>>The main characters in DC's way cool series "Watchmen" were based on
>>characters created by *another* comic company that DC bought. For
>>example, Nite Owl II is pretty much the Blue Beetle, Dr. Manhattan is Cpt.
>>Atom and Rorschach is The Question. Does anyone know who Comedian,
>>Ozymandias and Silk Spectre were based off of? (I think Comedian is
>>Peacemaker...)
>
>Ozymandias: Thunderbolt (Peter Cannon)
I thought Ozy was the Judomaster. . . . .
============================================================================
Nomad
wga@po.cwru.edu
myrtth@geocities.com
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded
with a sleep."
--Shakespeare, <bold><italic>The Tempest</italic></bold>,
IV.i.148
============================================================================
</x-rich>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pm02sm.pmm.mci.net from jstefanski@internetmci.com server @pm02sm.pmm.mci.net ip 208.159.126.151
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:22:15 -0500
From: John Stefanski <jstefanski@internetmci.com>
Subject: RE: Critical Hits
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
In many of our campaigns over the past 10 years we have subscribed to the
house rule that any "natural 3" is double effect. (That's before defenses)
It has the effect of an incredible shot/punch/effect. At one point we went
so far to include 1.5 effect on a "natural 4." On the flip side anyone who
rolls an attack roll of 18 is automatically at 1/2 DCV to the effect of a
stubbing of a toe/trip/itch to scratch etc. I recognize this rule leans
more toward the PC's but I see no problem with that. I can't tell you
where it came from since we've been using it for so long.
JS
========================
JS Stefanski - jstefanski@iname.com
"aut vincere aut mori" - Conquer or Die
========================
On April 05, 1998 6:12 PM, Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
wrote:
> Here's an idea for critical hits that I thought up a couple of weeks
> ago. It does have a few holes in it (like the fact that there's no
> Critical Miss equivalent), but I think it's something worth considering.
> The idea came to me when I was wondering about Find Weakness. If an
> expert can find a weakness by training (or whatever), why couldn't
someone
> occasionally find one by accident? How would that work?
> So my rule suggestion is that this is exactly what happens when
someone
> rolls a natural 3 on an Attack Roll.
> This form of Find Weakness is DEX-based instead of INT-based, and
cannot
> be bought up (since it's a combat event and not a Skill). Skill Levels
do
> not apply to it (not even Overall Levels). However, the character does
get
> a +1 for every 2 points the Attack Roll was actually made by. (If an 11
is
> needed and a 3 is rolled, that's a difference of 8, so the character gets
a
> +4 to the Find Weakness.) If the target has Luck, then he may also get a
> +1 for every level of Luck rolled.
> The target's Lack of Weakness, if any, does apply to this Find
Weakness.
> The attacker may continue to roll Find Weakness, with the usual
> cumulative penalty of -2 per successive Roll, until he misses one. Each
> successful Roll cuts the target's defenses in half *for that attack
only*.
>
> Now, right off-hand, I can see a couple of problems with this:
> 1) As mentioned above, there's no "critical miss" equivalent to
balance
> this; if anyone has ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
> 2) It introduces yet more die-rolling to the game; in fact, when
> invoked, there's a likely average of around 3 additional rolls each time.
> (This could be fixed by making just one Find Weakness Roll, and halving
the
> target's defenses for every +2 that it's made by.)
>
> On the other hand, it has these strengths:
> 1) It increases the damage actually done without messing with the
basic
> amount done, making it arguably just a little more true-to-life than just
> declaring that maximum damage is done.
> 2) Its effect is variable -- some hits are more critical than others.
> 3) It covers an occurrance (accidental Find Weakness) that logically
> should be able to happen from time to time.
> 4) The problems mentioned above are mitigated somewhat by two things:
> (a) it will only happen in one Attack Roll out of 216, and (b) it's as
> likely to happen to the bad guys as to the PCs.
>
> If this idea goes over reasonably well with the list, I may add an
> adaptation of this rule to my Diceless Combat System.
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:30:02 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: ravanos <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
An NPC I'm working on is decended from an extradimensional being
and can focus his latent capacity to manipulate the mystical energies of
his lineage to create a 'phantasmal blade' willed into existence and
forged of spirit matter. The blade itself does damage by disrupting the
aura of the object, slicing through it. Since a living object's life
force is effected, it does BODY damage.
For the mechanics: 1d6+1 HKA, AVLD (versus Power Defense) is what
I was thing of desiging it as. If an object is AVLD does it effect a
material object (i.e. can it 'push buttons' and such?).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
First edition Fantasy Hero had a rule whereby if you
made a roll of I believe it was 3-5, you got a critical hit. This
gave you max damage.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:31:46 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
At 09:30 AM 4/6/1998 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> An NPC I'm working on is decended from an extradimensional being
>and can focus his latent capacity to manipulate the mystical energies of
>his lineage to create a 'phantasmal blade' willed into existence and
>forged of spirit matter. The blade itself does damage by disrupting the
>aura of the object, slicing through it. Since a living object's life
>force is effected, it does BODY damage.
> For the mechanics: 1d6+1 HKA, AVLD (versus Power Defense) is what
>I was thing of desiging it as. If an object is AVLD does it effect a
>material object (i.e. can it 'push buttons' and such?).
I'd say yes, if it's an AVLD that does BODY (total Advantage: +2 1/2),
it will affect solid objects, unless it has a Limitation that says it can't.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:53:16 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: RE: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
At 09:22 AM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In many of our campaigns over the past 10 years we have subscribed to the
>house rule that any "natural 3" is double effect. (That's before defenses)
>It has the effect of an incredible shot/punch/effect. At one point we went
>so far to include 1.5 effect on a "natural 4." On the flip side anyone who
>rolls an attack roll of 18 is automatically at 1/2 DCV to the effect of a
>stubbing of a toe/trip/itch to scratch etc. I recognize this rule leans
>more toward the PC's but I see no problem with that. I can't tell you
>where it came from since we've been using it for so long.
We just use a natural 3 as either full damage or you get to choose your
location and roll as you wish
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Comic Trivia Question
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:10:55 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
>PS: Can you tell what my latest adpations are? (yeah, and I'm still
>tinkering with Devil Hunter Yoko)
Be sure give her very high COM! ^_^;
DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
Should post my COM rules sometime!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
Hello;
What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
And,
In a Fantasy Hero game set at 150 points (75+75), what power levels
would people recommend?
I'm thinking ave here and not max.
So, Spd, Dex, DC, CV, Str, Int, Ego, Weapon DC, Combat Skill levels,
Skill levels, what else?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:46:13 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:07 AM 4/6/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>Hello;
>
> What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
>
>And,
>
> In a Fantasy Hero game set at 150 points (75+75), what power levels
>would people recommend?
>
>I'm thinking ave here and not max.
>
> So, Spd, Dex, DC, CV, Str, Int, Ego, Weapon DC, Combat Skill levels,
> Skill levels, what else?
My recommendation is that, for the most part, mid to upper heroic-level
ranges should be used: DEX 15, SPD 3, Most characteristics at 10-13
(fighters might have STR 15-18 and mages likewise with INT and maybe EGO),
weapon and spell Damage Classes in the range of 6-8, beginning armor no
more than 3 or maybe 4 points, and no more than two or maybe three Combat
Skill Levels to start.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:06:15 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
At 10:07 AM 4/6/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>Hello;
>
> What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
>
I ran a good campaign using the original FH rule at 75+25;I also used 75+75
under the modern rules.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:06:15 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
At 10:07 AM 4/6/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>Hello;
>
> What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
>
I ran a good campaign using the original FH rule at 75+25;I also used 75+75
under the modern rules.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: One Use Luck
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
Hello;
I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
Gained either through actions or prayer.
In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
How much for a one use auto successful point of luck?
Rook ?U ?k 1b 'no giga pets were harmed in the production of this message'.
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Roleplay
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:50:28 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
> What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
we use 50+50, makes for simple, low powered guys with lots of growing
room... but the magic system is repaired to be more useful at lower level.
> So, Spd, Dex, DC, CV, Str, Int, Ego, Weapon DC, Combat Skill levels,
> Skill levels, what else?
With the point levels set like this and normal characteristic maxima you
dont really need limits... characters tend to fall within a range of 3-4
speed and 14-18 dex for the most part... combat values similar. Id be
careful with martial arts thought, they are horribly effective at this power
level. Also, avoid Density Increase and Growth for FH spells, they are
scary powerful
see my FH notes at
http://www.cyberis.net/~lancec/fhero.htm
for more info and my house rules at
http://www.cyberis.net/~lancec/hrules.htm
if you wish to see how I do things in more detail
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
> > What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
> >
> I ran a good campaign using the original FH rule at 75+25;I also used 75+75
> under the modern rules.
Yes but; what power level? :)
Points has very little to do with overall power level in Hero.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Solo Adventure Online
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:59:29 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
I've uploaded Power Point #11, Solo Hero. In this interactive web page,
you can choose your own adventure as you learn more of the
supervillains' plots and beat them up.
For a little background on the adventure and the concept of solo
heroing, go to http://www.haymaker.org/haym11f.html. To jump right in,
go to http://www.haymaker.org/solo.html.
Dave Mattingly
Haymaker coordinator
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo isis.sunderland.ac.uk from christopher.brecken@sunderland.ac.uk server @isis.sunderland.ac.uk ip 157.228.12.13
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:36:07 +0100
From: Chris Brecken <Christopher.Brecken@sunderland.ac.uk>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: [Fwd: KBAC: Action Figures]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Thought people might be interested in this...
Chris
Return-path: <owner-kbac-l@valor.mlists.com>
Envelope-to: ca3cbr@isis.sunderland.ac.uk
Delivery-date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:09:29 +0100
Received: from (orac.sunderland.ac.uk) [157.228.12.1]
by isis.sunderland.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2)
id 0yLGWX-0001FH-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:09:29 +0100
Received: from valor.idyllmtn.com (valor.mlists.com) [206.16.238.101]
by orac.sunderland.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1)
id 0yLGSx-0001DW-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:05:47 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by valor.mlists.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26418
for kbac-l-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:52:42 -0800
Received: from x10.boston.juno.com (x10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.25])
by valor.mlists.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26415
for <kbac-l@mlists.com&> Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:52:38 -0800
Received: (from tjkenning@juno.com)
by x10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SLD05379; Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:52:53 EST
To: kbac-l@mlists.com
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:51:57 -0600
Subject: KBAC: Action Figures
Message-ID: <19980403.175158.3798.0.tjkenning@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8
From: tjkenning@juno.com (T Kenning)
Sender: owner-kbac-l@mlists.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: kbac-l@mlists.com
Check out the address below for an interview with Brent Anderson about
the upcoming Astro City figures. It really sounds like there's going to
be a lot of quality involved in them. I'm excited.
http://www.mania.com/toys/features/brentanderson0403981.html
_____
/_ _/- - - - - - - - - - - -
/ /OM KENNING
/__/- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.superlink.net from why@saturn.superlink.net server why@saturn.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.7
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), Brian Wong wrote:
>
> >Hello;
> >
> > I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
> >as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
> >
> > Gained either through actions or prayer.
> >In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
> >
> > What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
> >
> >How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
>
> 1d6 Luck (5 AP): One Charge (-2), Charge Does Not Recover (-2)
>
> 1 CP
But that doesn't mean you'll get a 6 on the die roll. :-)
Try, Favor, GM, 14-. (Like 10 points considering the power level of a
GM? :-)
Joe
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Brian Wong" <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
"champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 19:56:25
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:07:34 -0700 (PDT), Brian Wong wrote:
>What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
Beginner 30 AP, Hero 50 AP, Master 70AP, Archmage 100AP+
Note that a character like a Paladin will have a bunch of 10-20AP
powers
>In a Fantasy Hero game set at 150 points (75+75), what power levels
>would people recommend?
>
>I'm thinking ave here and not max.
>
>So, Spd, Dex, DC, CV, Str, Int, Ego, Weapon DC, Combat Skill levels,
>Skill levels, what else?
For warriors, it's Str 13+, Spd 3, Dex 14+, Int 10, Ego 13, 4-6DC
(Broadsword or 2H sword or battleaxe or bow), Extra Stun, extra Con,
CVs are highly variable 30 pts in combat stuff and Talents, the rest as
skills. Skill rolls are up to 16-. Scholar is usual.
For spellcasters, it's broadly the same, except Int or Ego are 18+ and
35-40 pts in a spell pool, with many spell-related skills. Wizards tend
to have a high CON or END, too. Skills tend to be rather higher, and
they invariably have Scholar and Linguist.
I've been known to give out a few minor magical trinkets (5-10 CP).
One thing that catches many players on the hop is non-combat skill
levels: you can't apply them to more than one skill at the same time
(ie a main skill and a complementary skill). I'm big on Complementary
Skills as it keeps the power levels down.
All characters have Riding, which I take to cover in combat as well,
being appropriate for the milieu.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Brian Wong" <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
"champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 20:14:51
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), Brian Wong wrote:
>Hello;
>
> I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
>as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
>
> Gained either through actions or prayer.
>In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
>
> What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
>
>How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
1d6 Luck (5 AP): One Charge (-2), Charge Does Not Recover (-2)
1 CP
>How much for a one use auto successful point of luck?
Didn't this appear in Dragon many years ago?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:17:53 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:47 AM 4/6/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>Hello;
>
> I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
>as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
>
> Gained either through actions or prayer.
>In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
>
> What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
>
>How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
Well, one charge per day (or per trip out) is a -2 Limitation; I think
Fantasy Hero First Edition was the last place to have the additional -2
Limitation for charges that never replenish. That's a total of a -4
Limitation, which yields a nice, even 1 point per 1d6 of one-use-only Luck.
>How much for a one use auto successful point of luck?
4d6 is about where you get a roughly even chance of rolling at least one
level of Luck, so I'd call that 4 points.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.132
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:33:10 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: ICE supplements?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA18188
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I'm interested in picking up some of the ICE supplements before the supply
dries up... Is the Gold Rush Games site the place to order these? I
quickly glanced at the Hero Games page and didn't see anything about
ordering products (they ought to at least have a link to GRG's product
listing, especially for Hero Plus).
I'm curious...a lot of "stock" information for a superhero RPG (how to deal
with mutants, how to handle alien invasions, etc) is disappearing along
with the ICE supplements, and this will create a big hole in future
support. Are new books going to appear that cover the same topics as some
of the ICE supplements, or will city books such as San Angelo try to cover
all these angles a little, or are new players doomed to be without some of
these invaluable books? Heck, I don't even think there's a book of
villains (such as Classic Enemies) that is still in print....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:42:12 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Haymaker
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:59 AM 4/6/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I've uploaded Power Point #11, Solo Hero. In this interactive web page,
>you can choose your own adventure as you learn more of the
>supervillains' plots and beat them up.
>
>For a little background on the adventure and the concept of solo
>heroing, go to http://www.haymaker.org/haym11f.html. To jump right in,
>go to http://www.haymaker.org/solo.html.
I want to check this out as soon as I'm able.
I have something ready to go for Haymaker #16; I just need to know what
I'd need to do to submit.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:44:44 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > >How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
> >
> > 1d6 Luck (5 AP): One Charge (-2), Charge Does Not Recover (-2)
> >
> > 1 CP
>
> But that doesn't mean you'll get a 6 on the die roll. :-)
>
> Try, Favor, GM, 14-. (Like 10 points considering the power level of a
> GM? :-)
>
I always had a problem with the Luck power. It seemed too be both too open
to GM interpretation / storytelling ability
and too limited to your actual roll on the die.
In my opinion, it seems likely that a 'lucky' character that had 3D6 of
luck might never roll a 6 at the appropriate time. OTOH, I would say that
the same character could always find a nice parking space, regardless of
whether or not any 6's were rolled. I would prefer luck to be used more
as it is in other games, where you could add or subtract points to your die
roll. Or maybe reroll your dice and take the better of the two rolls.
Curt
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 06 Apr 1998 16:46:57 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Here's an idea for critical hits that I thought up a couple of weeks
BG> ago.
No.
No critical hits in Champions, unless you want dead characters all over the
place. Seriously, reasonable characters with defenses that can deal with
12DC attacks will *DIE*, especially if Killing Attacks are being used.
Very un4-colorish.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSk/Op6VRH7BJMxHAQGP4wP/ajSJa46CMZllJFCMA0diBvVMK4qQHGl0
mNxI6A9oihHudBXFEzBWLK/qp8m1Eqhe/rvE33KIqy3HzcxXMZvj5HMv9WDd6cFE
qW3Q0qc5pUABWUHxmIdqq9wdhTfy8AMMGEvHHsDqg9Bryge2JZP5+aA5ZLrFBayb
9Ev1vZtCHBE=
=neqN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 06 Apr 1998 16:49:35 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> TUM has a nice chart for using Dispel BOECV for affecting the mind,
Excuse me, but what the fuck? Arbitrarilly assigning active point values
to memories? I *KNEW* there was a reason I avoided the "ultimate" books on
general principle. That is just too much.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSk/3p6VRH7BJMxHAQH+fAQAgGuaKT1EJ6FNCtcBxsujLKT6hmHbaNfG
/Hn6a8pThQ+cOq0R+I1MosRToM6Y5e6m4tKIkueIJcibVzGoP2YYnQXLYM2UnfzW
73AwU1Gob8sx4VIxdU2P+1J98SguTWzBcFa7zRYBUODTFdpkkt4cllJONuthMdT4
N/rMYw951k8=
=lBMN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 06 Apr 1998 16:50:10 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "RAW" == Robert A West <robtwest@erols.com> writes:
RAW> A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you
RAW> point up a Memory Eraser?
You have a power that achieves the desired effect. Stop looking for
another one.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSlAAZ6VRH7BJMxHAQHo/wP9EOEvQsnVIVpHxi29z2BeiLeM3k5gL/d6
EgNM67vlRkwq7RhX9sd0hdZTRPFxcwbSaDG6J0LGVcNUkAnbrvlat82bvVRBG9T/
TT+ZYQTY0AJYASLqT9fwK9iZ7AejoSUXOJfI0/LnkALWGdUrMQ21vx0rhviFe8Mx
TlGsfSvAFSY=
=ZFeD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel7.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel7.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.57
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:02:08 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: KBAC: Action Figures]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Check out the address below for an interview with Brent Anderson about
>the upcoming Astro City figures. It really sounds like there's going to
>be a lot of quality involved in them. I'm excited.
>
Are we talking miniatures, or G.I.Joe type stuff?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:13:24 -0400
Lines: 44
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "JS" == JASON SULLIVAN <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
JS> An NPC I'm working on is decended from an extradimensional being
JS> and can focus his latent capacity to manipulate the mystical energies
JS> of his lineage to create a 'phantasmal blade' willed into existence and
JS> forged of spirit matter. The blade itself does damage by disrupting
JS> the aura of the object, slicing through it. Since a living object's
JS> life force is effected, it does BODY damage.
If you assume that the "spirit body" has something resembling a physical
existance on its native plane, you also have to consider what it would use
for defenses. In other words, you as the GM, must first define exactly
what an aura is, and what its capabilities are. Once you do that, you
should have a good idea of what can affect it.
My own idea on nature of the aura/astral body is that it is a manifestation
of belief and will in a coresident plane. Things like Strength and Energy
Defense do not have true 1:1 correspondence, one's knowledge of oneself
carries over. For most campaigns, this means that whatever you can (or
cannot) do in the physical world you can (or cannot) do in the astral
world. If your physical world defenses can stop a bullet, your astral
body's defenses can stop the astral aspect of the same bullet.
That being said, I would stick with a basic, if largish, HKA, and Affects
Desolid.
YMMV.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSlFcp6VRH7BJMxHAQFO4wQAsPolhib2OyGJxEQq9r4wYnCBKofOyKmo
Qh6dPyhicVNY0O1srWBFeESB5NqRDuPWupO70QQ8fJhkRkyEjJjNxpbfEhJR4e8C
xsH6nAJZNQjBL0hmHH3FdA3b+25BlsjK8hvHgVYdEBPJ1gyteJlRd76MIEyDDNKq
2hAAN1KU8/4=
=TNSu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:18:12 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:18 PM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> What page is the does BODY advantage on? I thought it was by
>GM approval with no point cost given.
Iit is, but its a general house rule (and used in the Bestiary) to be a +1
advantage, almost everyone uses it
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:18:39 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@sysabend.org"
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
What page is the does BODY advantage on? I thought it was by
GM approval with no point cost given.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:46:35 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:18 PM 4/6/1998 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> What page is the does BODY advantage on? I thought it was by
>GM approval with no point cost given.
It's not in the HSR, but has appeared in TUM and a couple of Third
Edition supplements. In TUM, it was suggested as being mainly applicable
to Ego Attack, or attacks bought BOECV; in Gadgets!, it was applied to any
Power bought AVLD. I think it's been largely accepted as an Advantage that
can be applied to any of those, plus NND attacks.
(I personally like the idea of expanding its scope slightly, like
allowing an EB AVLD vs Sight Flash to do BODY damage that counts as a Flash
vs Sight.)
It's basically given as a +1 Advantage to do BODY damage.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:53:39 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:46 PM 4/6/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
>
>BG> Here's an idea for critical hits that I thought up a couple of weeks
>BG> ago.
>
>No.
>
>No critical hits in Champions, unless you want dead characters all over the
>place. Seriously, reasonable characters with defenses that can deal with
>12DC attacks will *DIE*, especially if Killing Attacks are being used.
>Very un4-colorish.
You are aware, aren't you, that there's more to the Hero System than
just four-color, 12 Damage Class Champions?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:35:21 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I'm interested in picking up some of the ICE supplements before the supply
dries up... Is the Gold Rush Games site the place to order these? >>
You can order the books directly from us, from Hero games, or through your
local retailer. Everything we have is still available through distributors
and, of course, retailers.
<< (they ought to at least have a link to GRG's product listing, especially
for Hero Plus). >>
Just to clarify, all of the Hero Plus products must be ordered from Hero
Games. We do not stock the Hero Plus products; we only carry the old ICE books
and of course our licensed Hero System (4th Ed) paper books.
<< Are new books going to appear that cover the same topics as some of the ICE
supplements, or will city books such as San Angelo try to cover all these
angles a little, or are new players doomed to be without some of these
invaluable books? >>
Would we doom players to be without these types of books? ;) I think you'll
be seeing some interesting stuff covering a variety of topics in Champions.
They will be largely tailored for the San Angelo setting, but they will be
easily adaptable to any superhero setting. Some of the topics/books we've
planned include "Mytsic San Angelo" (working title), "Enemies Incarcerated"
(working title), "Denizens of San Angelo" (sort of a Normals Unbound for San
Angelo), and a lot, lot more. Once we get the ball rolling on the San Angelo
line there will be a good supply of books coming out.
<< Heck, I don't even think there's a book of villains (such as Classic
Enemies) that is still in print.... >>
On the contrary. We still have all of the following Enemies books in print
and available for purchase:
HG422 1-55806-173-8 Hi Tech Enemies 13.00
HG427 1-55806-183-5 Allies 13.00
HG429 Creatures of the Night 13.00
HG431 1-55806-197-5 Underworld Enemies 13.00
HG433 1-55806-206-8 Murderer's Row 13.00
HG439 1-55806-227-0 Enemies For Hire 15.00
HG440 1-55806-230-0 Enemies Assemble! 15.00
HG442 1-55806-248-3 Watchers of the Dragon 20.00
Of course, these and other books are listed on our web site. And while
you're there, be sure to check out the San Angelo Times Online!
Mark @ GRG
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:51:51 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:49 PM 4/6/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
>
>BG> TUM has a nice chart for using Dispel BOECV for affecting the mind,
>
>Excuse me, but what the f...
Well, that was worthless.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.nai.net from jrc@mail1.nai.net server @mail1.nai.net ip 208.133.174.65
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:53:28 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Power Levels
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Hello;
>
> What are the average Fantasy Hero power levels that people use?
It's been my experience that 100+50 will allow characters that are
"legendary" in scale. Bar fights are not a problem, even for the weakest
member of the party.
50+50 (or 75+25) will create much lower-powered heroes. They'll still be
able to wipe the floor with a normal or two, but now the sergeants of the
guard will be a threat, instead of only the captain. The characters will
not be able to defeat every opponent with force alone.
25+25 (or whatever adds up to 50 points) makes for a very interesting
game. Characters at this level tend to not save the world very often. :-)
They will often have to think their way around more powerful opposition.
> In a Fantasy Hero game set at 150 points (75+75), what power levels
>would people recommend?
>
>I'm thinking ave here and not max.
>
> So, Spd, Dex, DC, CV, Str, Int, Ego, Weapon DC, Combat Skill levels,
> Skill levels, what else?
SPD of 3 or 4.
DEX 14-21
6-8 DC
CV 4-7
Normal Chacteristic Maxima tends to keep most stats under 25, with
non-signature stats well under 20.
2-3 skill levels or combat skill levels.
As I said above, you're going to get a bunch of legends. The opposition
should be similarly high-powered.
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:54:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> What page is the does BODY advantage on? I thought it was by
> GM approval with no point cost given.
It's appeared in (I think) AC and one of the Almanacs as
"official" errata.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:57:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> BG> TUM has a nice chart for using Dispel BOECV for affecting the mind,
>
> Excuse me, but what the fuck? Arbitrarilly assigning active point values
> to memories? I *KNEW* there was a reason I avoided the "ultimate" books on
> general principle. That is just too much.
It seems Rat doesn't like anything useful to cross his path. As
is, I'd quibble on what makes up a major or minor memory, but this seems
like a very strong idea. And considering that memories can be manipulated
with other mental powers, it makes sense that they have some sort of
rating in the Hero system. Everything else does, so why not memories?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:31:09 EDT
To: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/6/98 1:49:13 PM, DBStallard@compuserve.com wrote:
<<I'm interested in picking up some of the ICE supplements before the supply
dries up... Is the Gold Rush Games site the place to order these? I
quickly glanced at the Hero Games page and didn't see anything about
ordering products (they ought to at least have a link to GRG's product
listing, especially for Hero Plus).>>
There's a whole section on ordering products... we're in the midst of a site
redesign, so maybe you missed it under all the construction (see Products).
<<I'm curious...a lot of "stock" information for a superhero RPG (how to deal
with mutants, how to handle alien invasions, etc) is disappearing along
with the ICE supplements, and this will create a big hole in future
support. Are new books going to appear that cover the same topics as some
of the ICE supplements, or will city books such as San Angelo try to cover
all these angles a little, or are new players doomed to be without some of
these invaluable books? Heck, I don't even think there's a book of
villains (such as Classic Enemies) that is still in print....>>
We still have copies of almost all of the books available. As they go out of
print, we're converting them to electronic format. So Classic Enemies is still
available, only now in electronic format (and at a significant savings, too,
since it's only $10 in electronic format).
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Transformation Attacks (5ED)?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Hm...some time ago, I was considering writing up transform after the
style of a mental power, and I finally completed it. The result is somewhat
better defined than a standard Hero transform, and hopefully not completely
imbalanced; I'm curious what people think.
Transform: 5 pts/1d6, minimum cost 10 pts.
Transform allows changing the powers or appearance of any target. In
order to transform someone, simply choose an effect, roll effect, then
subtract power defense; this is the total result. You will generally need
to roll a total of CON + some constant to entirely transform someone
(note: I choose CON rather than the historical BOD because it is less
likely to be totally unbalanced. Assume inanimate objects have con equal
to twice their body; if desired, use 2xBOD instead of con for all effects).
Inobvious special case: powers 'usable against others' may be implemented
with transform -- simply give them a power, and a physical limitation to
reflect the fact that they must use it. Note that powers which are
utterly disabling (such as teleporting someone to another dimension) are
considered to be +30; base the frequency of the physlim on how commonly
the power will be an annoyance while near the person with the power. As
a rule, an instant effect which causes loss of a phase can be considered
minor, loss of a turn is major, anything more is total.
To determine the result required for any transformation, decide how the
transform hurts the target, and compare with the following table:
Con +0 Effect is strictly beneficial.
Con +5 Assign a -1/4 limitation to any power. Base frequency on frequency
in the vicinity of the person whose transform it is -- 'not in intense
magnetic fields' is _not_ -1/4 if you can generate intense magnetic
fields. Any limitation which doesn't make sense should be disallowed;
in addition, turning powers into a universal focus or anything similar
should be disallowed.
+5 double the value of the limitation given.
Con +20 Remove any power.
Con +5 -1 to any roll, or -10AP to any ability; can be taken more than once.
Con +30 Totally change target; remove any number of powers.
Con +X Any disadvantage, value equal to X; psych lims may not be 'absolute'.
You may take 'distinctive features' at an appropriate level for free.
+5 -1 to EGO rolls to resist psychlims. This may be taken after the
effect
is rolled.
+5 Double the number of effects (from the above list); this is +5
relative to the most expensive desired effect. Optionally, double
the total value of the +X (thus, if you have a +20 effect, you can
get a +10 and two +5s for only one doubling).
Con +30 Totally disable target.
Adding powers: it is possible to use transform to give people powers; no power
given can have more active points than the total on your transformation
result; in addition, the total real point value of the transform
(including disads) cannot exceed your roll; the total for all 'positive'
effects cannot exceed 2x your roll. If the target already possesses
the desired power, the transform does not add. In the case of transform
for stats, assume the active point value of a stat is equal to its cost.
Optionally, you may allow powers exceeding the active limit, as long
as their real point value is not greater than _half_ the limit.
Complete Transformation (equivalent to 'add multiform'): you can simply assign
someone a form, rather than modifying their form; assume that the base
value for the form (excluding disads) is equal to twice your roll, the
total (including disads) cannot exceed 5x your roll. What powers may be
given is otherwise limited as above.
*Advantage*: cumulative transform, +1/2. A cumulative transform can
_gradually_ overwhelm a target who is too strong to be immediately
transformed. In case of a cumulative transform, keep track of the total
effect on the transformation; add _half_ of the previous total to your
roll; if the previous total is more than double your roll, there is no
effect. Note that a cumulative transform is capable of having _partial_
effect -- for example, if you want to turn someone to stone (Con+30)
but only have Con+10 points, you can give them a 10 pt physical limitation
appropriate to being partially turned to stone.
Examples:
Popper has a multipower of teleport powers (60 pts) and wants to be able
to teleport people about, so he buys transform( teleport, as directed by
Popper; cannot be teleported into solid objects ). The GM decides that
on average this will remove someone for about a phase, so it requires
Con+15 to use; he buys it at 12d6, and hits ogre (28 con) with it. If
he rolls 43+ on 12d6, ogre will be teleported whereever popper chooses,
assuming it is withing 21" of where he previously was. If this were a
noncombat teleport, this would probably be increased to be avg 1 turn
removal (requiring +20), but he could get ogre to noncom away with 40
active points (10" x32, or 320").
Medusa has the power 'transform to stone, 12d6, cumulative'; this is a
'totally disabling' effect (+30); once again, the target is ogre. On
the first try, she rolls 41, which is Con+13; as this is a cumulative
transform, she can do a partial effect; she goes with -6 DEX (20 AP)
to represent being partially made of stone. On the second try, she
rolls 43; adding (41/2) she gets a total of 63, or Con+25, enough to
get ogre almost solid; we call this -12 dex (+20), 2x# of effects(+5),
solid to the waist (can only move by hopping or dragging along by arms).
On the third try, she rolls 40; adding 32, she exceeds the 68 she needs
and Ogre is turned to solid stone.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:24:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Comic triva question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, SteveL1979 wrote:
> In a message dated 98-04-06 07:44:34 EDT, you write:
>
> << > Do you have access to the excellent Watchmen sourcebook published for
> > DC Heroes? A LOT of details that never made it into the comics, esp.
> > about the Minutemen. All approved by Moore, IIRC.
>
> Yes. I have the two Watchmen adventures put out for DC Heroes, as well as
> the AC conversion issue. >>
>
> There was also a specific WATCHMEN *sourcebook* in addition to the two
> scenarios; it contains a lot of useful info that would help you write up the
> characters in Hero System stats.
Well crap, I don't own that one... And it's out of print too... Uh..
anyone have a copy they can lend me? I'll mail it back when I'm done...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:29:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Comic Trivia Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >PS: Can you tell what my latest adpations are? (yeah, and I'm still
> >tinkering with Devil Hunter Yoko)
>
> Be sure give her very high COM! ^_^;
I was thinking 16 in everyday clothing, 20 in costume.
> DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
Heh, I was thinking 3 DEF armor defined as 'clothes get cut, but not her'
I wonder if I can get away with extra DCV levels defined as 'opponet
wastes time watch her breasts bounce' (-1 only works on men) ^_^
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:42:09 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:31 PM 4/6/1998 EDT, Hero Games wrote:
>We still have copies of almost all of the books available. As they go out of
>print, we're converting them to electronic format. So Classic Enemies is
still
>available, only now in electronic format (and at a significant savings, too,
>since it's only $10 in electronic format).
And the one currently available via Hero Plus is the same text, art,
etc., that I currently have in my print copy, and not an update, right?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:04:37 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Organization: Red Bow Antiques
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I have been playing with the idea of something like this for a long
time. I am a fan of the games where you can use Karma points or
experience to change a die roll.
I was thinking of allowing my players to change any die roll effecting
their character by spending experience points. The basic rule would be
that spending one experience would be a +1 or -1 to the roll tht effects
your character.
Of course, since I usually award 3-4 experience per adventure and don't
want my characters to stagnate spending all points on dice rolls I was
thinking of raising my average experience award up to 4-6.
What do you think?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:34:35 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>We still have copies of almost all of the books available. As they go out of
>print, we're converting them to electronic format. So Classic Enemies is
still
>available, only now in electronic format (and at a significant savings, too,
>since it's only $10 in electronic format).
>
>-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
As has been pointed out by others on the list, it's not a net savings if
you actually print the book out; paper may not cost much, but I can go
through a whole inkjet cartridge printing out a book of any size, at $25+
per cartridge.
Actually, though, what I wanted to ask about was availability. You said
supplements were being converted to electronic format "as they go out of
print". How much of a delay is there, and what kind of backlog currently
exists...also, are there out-of-print books that you don't plan to
"resurrect" electronically (wow...shades of Dr. Frankenstein)?
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:20:15 -0400 (EDT)
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from genfield@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: genfield@mail.cyberis.net (Unverified)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Grant Enfield <genfield@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Robert A. West wrote:
>How, other than Transform would you point up a Memory Eraser?
>
>IMO, erasing a memory, no matter how brief, is more than Cosmetic. A Major
Transform
>can erase all memories and replace them with completely different ones.
>This leaves Minor Transform to do all the work in the middle. Yecchh!
>
>I did think about a Mind Control bought Uncontrolled as a Continuing
>Charge of duration 25 years(+1 1/2 if a single charge) to prevent the EGO
>roll from improving over time.
You don't want to use Transform because you're uncomfortable with applying
Cosmetic, Minor, or Major status to memories but will buy Mind Control with
a 25-year continuing charge?? That's a pretty unwieldy construction to me,
and Transform (which turns princes into frogs, stones into bread, and
corpses into zombies) seems perfectly suited to changing a sane person
insane or one persone into an identical person minus a few memories.
Besides I wouldn't want to encourage players to buy 25-year continuing
charges for their mentalists's powers. . . . (When do you get to make your
EGO Rolls to beak free?)
grant
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:20:18 -0400 (EDT)
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from genfield@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: genfield@mail.cyberis.net (Unverified)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Grant Enfield <genfield@cyberis.net>
Subject: HERO Games in Phoenix
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I may very well be moving to the Phoenix area for graduate school at Arizona
State. Does anyone know of any HERO Games being played down there?
I enjoy role-playing, but I'm sure I won't have time to run a game of my
own, and I play HERO-system exclusively. (Hey, once I realized I can build
the character I want and everything's balanced, why should I play anything
else?)
grant
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mars.superlink.net from why@superlink.net server root@mars.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.9
X-Sender: why@mail.superlink.net
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:43:45 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:53 PM 4/6/98 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 04:46 PM 4/6/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>No critical hits in Champions, unless you want dead characters all over the
>>place. Seriously, reasonable characters with defenses that can deal with
>>12DC attacks will *DIE*, especially if Killing Attacks are being used.
>>Very un4-colorish.
>
> You are aware, aren't you, that there's more to the Hero System than
>just four-color, 12 Damage Class Champions?
Critical hits would be silly in Champions and it would be silly in any
other Hero genre. If you want combat to be more deadly use the hit
location, wounding, disabling, and bleeding rules.
If you absolutely have to have Critical hits, do not double damage. Do max
damage. Or do add 1 STUN per die, or increase the STUN multiple by 1 for KAs.
But seriously, in what genre are "critical hits" appropriate? Street level
games should use hit locations, and if you don't think those rules are
deadly enough, you aren't using them correctly.
Joe
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:15:55 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:43 PM 4/6/1998 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>At 02:53 PM 4/6/98 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>At 04:46 PM 4/6/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>>No critical hits in Champions, unless you want dead characters all over the
>>>place. Seriously, reasonable characters with defenses that can deal with
>>>12DC attacks will *DIE*, especially if Killing Attacks are being used.
>>>Very un4-colorish.
>>
>> You are aware, aren't you, that there's more to the Hero System than
>>just four-color, 12 Damage Class Champions?
>
>Critical hits would be silly in Champions and it would be silly in any
>other Hero genre. If you want combat to be more deadly use the hit
>location, wounding, disabling, and bleeding rules.
Actually it's not the genre that should dictate whether Critical Hits
are used at all. It really has little or nothing to do with it.
Besides, Rat's comments have little to do with the proposal I forwarded
(unless he also thinks that Armor Piercing and normal Find Weakness are too
deadly for a "four-color" game). He just asummed (as you apparently did,
for that matter) that "Critical Hit" = "Deadly Hit" without even giving the
proposal much attention or the matter much thought. *That* is what's
really silly. (Either that, or Walter Matthau in a pink bunny suit; take
your pick.)
>If you absolutely have to have Critical hits, do not double damage. Do max
>damage. Or do add 1 STUN per die, or increase the STUN multiple by 1 for
KAs.
Did you even read the post I sent out? I said nothing about doing
double damage, and in fact I don't particularly like that method. That
STUN increase idea you gave (and I assume it was an off-the-cuff idea)
isn't much better. The max damage idea is the "traditional" method in hero
-- at least, it's the only one I've seen before I started this discussion.
I was just giving another idea.
>But seriously, in what genre are "critical hits" appropriate? Street level
>games should use hit locations, and if you don't think those rules are
>deadly enough, you aren't using them correctly.
I was specifically trying to come up with a good "critical hit" system
that *wouldn't* be horribly deadly. For that matter, I wasn't really
trying to come up with a critical hit system at all; I was trying to come
up with an implementation for "accidental Find Weakness." If you can come
up with a better way of implementing it, I'm open to suggestions.
To my mind, a "critical hit" is just that lucky or outstanding shot that
did considerably better than usual. But max damage and all the other
methods just seemed a little forced. It wasn't until I stumbled on the
thought of using it for my Find Weakness idea that it seemed to fall into
place.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:50:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> As I have said before when the topic of Transform comes up, it does
> not have enough granularity IMHO. Transform is, by its own writeup, the
> power of last resort, Major Transform is too cheap for some of its
> uses and the power is much-overused. For example, the HSR/BBB suggests
Huh? How can something priced higher than killing someone be
overpriced? If you can kill someone, you can change them. The logic
makes sense.
> buying a blinding acid spray as Major Transform. I would prefer to buy
> it as Drain Normal Sight with a long fade time.
And how exactly does a non-heal-able blindness get better?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp.prtcl.com from calicajun@prtcl.com server @smtp.prtcl.com ip 205.158.46.3
X-Sender: calicajun@smtp.prtcl.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:37:55 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Eric Chauvin <calicajun@prtcl.com>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:47 AM 4/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello;
>
> I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
>as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
>
> Gained either through actions or prayer.
>In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
>
> What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
>
>How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
>
>How much for a one use auto successful point of luck?
>
>Rook ?U ?k 1b 'no giga pets were harmed in the production of this message'.
> __
>/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
>\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Roleplay
>
In our group we use an experience point called a "Task Point".
It is essentially a G.M./Player tool used to help dramatize the story.
A task point is not used to change a die roll, but instead to perform that
action that a HERO would do, but would probably (by game mechanics or sheer
logic) end up with a characters demise.
An example of this was a campaign in which a villain fell off a 3000ft
cliff into an uncontrolled dive & our hero (subject to a 20pt. Code Vs.
Killing & a 20pt. Chivalrous) dove off the cliff after him. He spent a task
point to save the villain & survive himself. He hurt for a while but it
made for a great story piece & really helped flesh out a part of his
character. By logic they both would have died, but with a task point he
became the hero we always dream of creating.
____________________________
GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
---------------------------------------------
Eric Chauvin
calicajun@prtcl.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:24:41 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Phantasmal Blade (AVLD vs Power Defense)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>
> I was thing of desiging it as. If an object is AVLD does it effect a
> material object (i.e. can it 'push buttons' and such?).
I have decided that, in my campaign and provided that there is an
appropriate special effect, STUN-only attacks can be used to exert small
amounts of force, such as pushing buttons. IMHO, the small amount of
force required to push a button is far less than the amount required to
do 1/10 of killing a normal. A phantasmal blade may fall into that
category. If you don't want to go that route, just buy a minimum buy of
stretching or TK linked to the blade.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:33:25 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> >>>>> "RAW" == Robert A West <robtwest@erols.com> writes:
>
> RAW> A question came up last night. How, other than Transform would you
> RAW> point up a Memory Eraser?
>
> You have a power that achieves the desired effect. Stop looking for
> another one.
Per the description of Transform, it cannot be used to duplicate effects
achievable by other powers; therefore, if there is another way to do it
that is even halfway reasonable, Transform is not an option.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo radius1.teleport.com from cptspith@teleport.com server @radius1.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.35
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:16:40 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Comic Trivia Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
>
> Heh, I was thinking 3 DEF armor defined as 'clothes get cut, but not her'
> I wonder if I can get away with extra DCV levels defined as 'opponet
> wastes time watch her breasts bounce' (-1 only works on men) ^_^
Or lesbians....
--
"SPOOOOOOOONN!!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:35:55 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Grant Enfield wrote:
>
> Robert A. West wrote:
> >How, other than Transform would you point up a Memory Eraser?
> >
> >IMO, erasing a memory, no matter how brief, is more than Cosmetic. A Major
> Transform
> >can erase all memories and replace them with completely different ones.
> >This leaves Minor Transform to do all the work in the middle. Yecchh!
> >
> >I did think about a Mind Control bought Uncontrolled as a Continuing
> >Charge of duration 25 years(+1 1/2 if a single charge) to prevent the EGO
> >roll from improving over time.
>
> You don't want to use Transform because you're uncomfortable with applying
> Cosmetic, Minor, or Major status to memories but will buy Mind Control with
> a 25-year continuing charge?? That's a pretty unwieldy construction to me,
I feel that Transform is a fundamentally broken power as currently
written, and prefer to avoid it if at all possible. In any event, I said
I *thought about* doing it that way, not that I intend to implement it
that way.
> and Transform (which turns princes into frogs, stones into bread, and
> corpses into zombies) seems perfectly suited to changing a sane person
> insane or one persone into an identical person minus a few memories.
As I have said before when the topic of Transform comes up, it does
not have enough granularity IMHO. Transform is, by its own writeup, the
power of last resort, Major Transform is too cheap for some of its
uses and the power is much-overused. For example, the HSR/BBB suggests
buying a blinding acid spray as Major Transform. I would prefer to buy
it as Drain Normal Sight with a long fade time.
> Besides I wouldn't want to encourage players to buy 25-year continuing
> charges for their mentalists's powers. . . . (When do you get to make your
> EGO Rolls to beak free?)
>
> grant
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:52:43 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Comic Trivia Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:16 AM 4/7/98 -0700, Captain Spith wrote:
>> > DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
>>
>> Heh, I was thinking 3 DEF armor defined as 'clothes get cut, but not her'
>> I wonder if I can get away with extra DCV levels defined as 'opponet
>> wastes time watch her breasts bounce' (-1 only works on men) ^_^
>
> Or lesbians....
Wow... talk about a thread that you can't come into the middle of...
But actually I have a villain I have used who has a level with DCV though a
focus that have the limitation that they don't work vs women. The
description is her costume is so sexy men are distracted. I figure one was
the most you could justify.
I am glad none of my players are on this list...
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:02:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Comic Trivia Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Captain Spith wrote:
> > > DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
> >
> > Heh, I was thinking 3 DEF armor defined as 'clothes get cut, but not her'
> > I wonder if I can get away with extra DCV levels defined as 'opponet
> > wastes time watch her breasts bounce' (-1 only works on men) ^_^
>
> Or lesbians....
Ahem... I wasn't going to go there...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:57:33 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>I was thinking of allowing my players to change any die roll effecting
>their character by spending experience points. The basic rule would
>be that spending one experience would be a +1 or -1 to the roll that
>effects your character.
I've done this before, but the stakes were upped to +/-5 with a skill
roll or a to-hit roll, or +10 active points onto a power. It worked out
pretty well. Even with this rule, though, only one player ever burned
his EPs. The others were too greedy about improving their stats &
skills.
But then, I usually gave out 1-3 EPs per game.
Dave Mattingly
mattingly@bigfoot.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-8.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-8.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.138
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:11:52 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Underworld Enemies?
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id KAA28167
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Can somebody tell me what's in this book? Is it stats for normals who are
gangsters, etc, or is it stats for supervillains who work for the mob? Was
this published as a Dark Champions supplement, or is it a "generic"
Champions supplement?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,12-14
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:43:57 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>In our group we use an experience point called a "Task Point".
>It is essentially a G.M./Player tool used to help dramatize the story.
>A task point is not used to change a die roll, but instead to perform
>that
>action that a HERO would do, but would probably (by game mechanics or
>sheer
>logic) end up with a characters demise.
<example snipped>
This sounds like something I could use in my games -- do you give task
points in addition to XP, or does the player simply cross off an XP and
call it a task point?
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Comic Trivia Question
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:55:04 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>> >PS: Can you tell what my latest adpations are? (yeah, and I'm still
>> >tinkering with Devil Hunter Yoko)
>>
>> Be sure give her very high COM! ^_^;
>I was thinking 16 in everyday clothing, 20 in costume.
Puma tend to give anime babes a high COM!
There're so cute!
>> DF: Looses clothes in combat? ^o^
>Heh, I was thinking 3 DEF armor defined as 'clothes get cut, but not
her'
>I wonder if I can get away with extra DCV levels defined as 'opponet
>wastes time watch her breasts bounce' (-1 only works on men) ^_^
Just use my COM rules, a COM attack can have that sort of effect!
Puma will dig them out and post them!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Re: Is Transform too Cheap? (Was: Erasing Memories)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:01:50 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On 4/7/98 11:26 AM Robert A. West (robtwest@erols.com) Said:
>> > power of last resort, Major Transform is too cheap for some of its
>> > uses and the power is much-overused. For example, the HSR/BBB suggests
>>
>> Huh? How can something priced higher than killing someone be
>> overpriced? If you can kill someone, you can change them. The logic
>> makes sense.
>
>*Higher* than killing someone? Not bloody likely. Compare
>
>21 3D6 Cumulative Major Transform
>20 3D6+1 RKA vs PD.
Okay, now lets try it with the costs from the BBB
67 3d6 Cumulative Major Transform
67 4 1/2d6 RKA vs PD (some would cost this at 70)
>In a DC-12 campaign, typical starting rPD averages 10, starting Power
>Defense is zero and starting BODY is 11. The transform averages 10.5 per
>hit: two or three hits to transform someone. The RKA averages 3.5 per
>hit: six or seven hits to kill someone.
>
God only knows where these typicals come from, but we can use them
anyway.
The transform will roll an average 10.5 for each attack, and take 3 hits
of average rolls to transform the target.
The RKA will roll an average 15.75 body for each attack, and after the
DEF of 10, do 5.75 body and (again, average STUNx of 2.67 makes it 42) 32
STUN. This is likely to Stun some opponents, and should even knock
normals out with one hit. It will take one more average hit to put them
at the "Bleeding to death, will die without immediate help" stage, and
then 2 more hits to make them really die.
So 3 average hits vs 4. Sounds close to me when you factor in that 1-3 of
those 4 attacks will be against a stunned, knocked out or dying target.
>A more direct comparison would be:
>
>35 3D6 RKA AVLD/Power Defense(+1 1/2) Does BODY(+1) No STUN(-1/2)
The true cost of which is 157 active, 105 real.
This would not be allowed in most campaigns.
>The Transform/KA comparison is a false one, because KAs go against rPD,
>which is common and tends to be large, while Transforms go against Power
>Defense, which is uncommon and tends to be small. Having the most major
>transforms be 25/die (37/die if cumulative) would seem about right to me.
<sarcasm>
Sure, all normals in my worlds have a bare minimum of 5 rPD. We can't let
the heroes have anything the general public can't have, can we.
</sarcasm>
The transform/KA comparison is entirely valid, because, while rPD is far
more common than PowerDef, KA's do STUN damage as well, letting you STUN
an opponent, Knock him out, or Kill him.
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:26:59 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Is Transform too Cheap? (Was: Erasing Memories)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> > power of last resort, Major Transform is too cheap for some of its
> > uses and the power is much-overused. For example, the HSR/BBB suggests
>
> Huh? How can something priced higher than killing someone be
> overpriced? If you can kill someone, you can change them. The logic
> makes sense.
*Higher* than killing someone? Not bloody likely. Compare
21 3D6 Cumulative Major Transform
20 3D6+1 RKA vs PD.
In a DC-12 campaign, typical starting rPD averages 10, starting Power
Defense is zero and starting BODY is 11. The transform averages 10.5 per
hit: two or three hits to transform someone. The RKA averages 3.5 per
hit: six or seven hits to kill someone.
A more direct comparison would be:
35 3D6 RKA AVLD/Power Defense(+1 1/2) Does BODY(+1) No STUN(-1/2)
The Transform/KA comparison is a false one, because KAs go against rPD,
which is common and tends to be large, while Transforms go against Power
Defense, which is uncommon and tends to be small. Having the most major
transforms be 25/die (37/die if cumulative) would seem about right to me.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:28:27 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Underworld Enemies?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:11 AM 4/7/1998 -0400, David Stallard wrote:
>Can somebody tell me what's in this book? Is it stats for normals who are
>gangsters, etc, or is it stats for supervillains who work for the mob? Was
>this published as a Dark Champions supplement, or is it a "generic"
>Champions supplement?
It's a mix of normals, gangsters, TPOs*, and mostly low-level
superhumans suitable for Dark Champions campaigns. It includes an advanced
write-up of Crusader in Dark Champions terms, and what can be considered a
preview of Chris Avellone's upcoming Asylum books.
*TPO = Trained Paranormal Operative; a person who uses high-level
training and equipment to be on par with "true" superhumans.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:18:01 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/6/98 6:13:10 PM, you wrote:
<< And the one currently available via Hero Plus is the same text, art,
etc., that I currently have in my print copy, and not an update, right?>>
Yep, that's right. No changes from the printed version.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:29:24 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/6/98 7:41:41 PM, you wrote:
<<Actually, though, what I wanted to ask about was availability. You said
supplements were being converted to electronic format "as they go out of
print". How much of a delay is there, and what kind of backlog currently
exists...also, are there out-of-print books that you don't plan to
"resurrect" electronically (wow...shades of Dr. Frankenstein)?>>
The lag depends on the title. Some products we already have in completely
electronic form; those are easy to port over, but as they tend to be the newer
books, they tend to be ones we still have in print. Somewhat older books we
have the text in electronic form, but the graphics need to be scanned in. The
oldest books need to be scanned in and OCR'ed to get the text in electronic
form, and then edited (because the OCR process introduces errors), and then
the graphics scanned.
In the queue to be turned into electronic format: the VIPER sourcebook,
Fantasy Hero (though Hero Games still has a handful of printed copies
available for direct sale, we're putting this into electronic format to make
it available to distribution), Classic Organizations, Lands of Mystery, and
Mystic Masters. In some cases (like Lands of Mystery) the author wants to make
changes, so that will delay the project.
In the case of some books (like Wings of the Valkyrie) the author has
requested that we do not put it into electronic format, so we're honoring that
request.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:39:29 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:29 PM 4/7/1998 EDT, Hero Games wrote:
>In the queue to be turned into electronic format: the VIPER sourcebook,
>Fantasy Hero (though Hero Games still has a handful of printed copies
>available for direct sale, we're putting this into electronic format to make
>it available to distribution), Classic Organizations, Lands of Mystery, and
>Mystic Masters. In some cases (like Lands of Mystery) the author wants to
make
>changes, so that will delay the project.
>
>In the case of some books (like Wings of the Valkyrie) the author has
>requested that we do not put it into electronic format, so we're honoring
that
>request.
What about "The Coriolis Effect?"
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle.auc.on.ca from mcosby@eagle.auc.on.ca server mcosby@eagle.auc.on.ca ip 199.212.55.136
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:48:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Devil in Disguise! <mcosby@eagle.auc.on.ca>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: New millenium Errata??
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
ok, I'm not sure if this is actual errata or not, but I know it is really
damn confusing for someone just trying to learn the system. Right now, my
buddies and I are creating characters for the champions new millenium
game. One person rolled on the origin tables, and got power armor, it
says it must be bought with the disadvantage technology. We couldn't find
this in the book so we assumed that you just use the frequency intensity
and importance. Now this made perfect sense, except when we tried to
verify this by looking at the New millenium sample characters, we notice
that Defender had a disadvantage of 35 which does not seem be plausible.
I didn't notice anything on any previous published errata, perhaps someone
could explain this to me, if this is actually supposed to be correct.
_ __________ _,
_.-(_)._ ." ". .--""--. _.-{__}-._
.'________'. | .--------. | .' '. .:-'`____`'-:.
[____________] /` |________| `\ / .'``'. \ /_.-"`_ _`"-._\
/ / .\/. \ \| / / .\/. \ \ || .'/.\/.\'. | /` / .\/. \ `\
| \__/\__/ |\_/ \__/\__/ \_/| : |_/\_| ; | | \__/\__/ |
\ / \ / \ '.\ /.' / .-\ >/-.
/'._ -- _.'\ /'._ -- _.'\ /'. `'--'` .'\/ '._-.__--__.-_.'
\/_ `""""` _\/_ `""""` _\ /_ `-./\.-' _\'. `""""""""`'`\
(__/ '| \ _)_| |_)_/ \__)| '
|_____'|_____| \__________/|; `_________'________`;-'
s'----------' '----------' '--------------'`--------------------`
S T A N K Y L E K E N N Y C A R T M A N
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:29:21 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/7/98 12:13:48 PM, you wrote:
<< What about "The Coriolis Effect?"
->>
We still have copies for sale of the original printed version.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 15:40:05 -0400
Lines: 41
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Besides, Rat's comments have little to do with the proposal I
BG> forwarded (unless he also thinks that Armor Piercing and normal Find
BG> Weakness are too deadly for a "four-color" game).
They are when you start combining their effects.
Take a character with a 3D6+1 RKA, Armor Piercing. Put him against a
character with a 30 DEF Force Field. Even halved by the AP, a maximum
damage roll of 19 Body will do only 4 Body.
Same characters, but this time the attacker scores a "critical hit", and
his defenses are halved. Then they are halved again for the AP. Suddenly,
an average damage roll on the RKA does 3-4 Body. Worse yet, the same
maximum damage roll does 12 Body.
I assumed nothing. I did the math. Going from uninjured to "you will
bleed to death in 10 turns if you do not receive medical attention" in a
single shot is deadly.
Hero already has a "critical damage" system in effect. It is called
"rolling damage dice".
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqBDZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGFggP+IvSqISoRypoQW/fNuohxN7CkAdAKBMkt
9iU4Jt/FYqHm4unryR299/uDNFrV46tGUTWqExoyUvhO/u2NfHwNbTF2AJ2xM5xe
gEf5iaO9CR8wReBc+lIB7TEHLI550JhGj2hb8cnHj0/B4zr3zxeDghne3E4m23ay
nvtR79GRxAE=
=covD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 15:41:04 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> Excuse me, but what the fuck? Arbitrarilly assigning active point
>> values to memories? I *KNEW* there was a reason I avoided the
>> "ultimate" books on general principle. That is just too much.
TRG> It seems Rat doesn't like anything useful to cross his path.
Since when is a crock so blatant that it does not even pretend to fit with
the existing mechanics qualify as "useful"?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqBTZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFAnAQAo5tGR7ocegVYB9Hz6+Q7FasSe8FK+R49
cblEnpaQHJHdtoKR3fot9/0KMRfc/p4sXJRB2CYVjwSxeKxUVzGBZhUn8BRgWIC7
iOHf7lKROWbg7R3HpEmJue0X7JTAekVxu/H7Zhm6TeJSZ7t0QXi5IY7Rianh+vIu
K9myCdRrGlE=
=jnS7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-1.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-1.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.131
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:47:26 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA10768
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I have no reason or desire to switch from Hero to some other system (my
opinion of Fuzion is being formed, although I think I prefer Hero at this
point), but I'm curious to know a little bit about the other systems out
there. I'm vaguely familiar with Marvel SH and DC Heroes...I have the 1st
editions of both but haven't played either one. The games I don't know
anything about are: GURPS Supers (or, I guess, GURPS in general), Heroes
Unlimited (or whatever that Palladium game is called), and Villains &
Vigilantes (is this one still being published?).
Could someone, maybe in private mail to keep this list on track, give a
brief rundown of these systems and how they differ from Champs? I don't
need to know the inner workings of the combat system, but just things like
"you roll dice to make a character instead of spending points" or whatever.
I know that a lot of people don't like the Palladium system (and, from my
very brief experience with TMNT, I'd have to agree), but for some reason
I'm especially interested in that Heroes Unlimited game...maybe because I
flipped through the powers and got some inspiration for HERO characters. I
did some web hunting for HU information, but the player-supported pages
aren't so hot unless you're already familiar with the system.
The reason I posted on the HERO list is because it seems that references to
GURPS Supers are very common, and V&V also gets mentioned. Nobody mentions
HU, which maybe should tell me something about that game.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:55:04 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-> From ratinox@peorth.gweep.net Tue Apr 7 12:43:53 1998
->
-> Take a character with a 3D6+1 RKA, Armor Piercing. Put him against a
-> character with a 30 DEF Force Field. Even halved by the AP, a maximum
-> damage roll of 19 Body will do only 4 Body.
->
-> Same characters, but this time the attacker scores a "critical hit", and
-> his defenses are halved. Then they are halved again for the AP. Suddenly,
-> an average damage roll on the RKA does 3-4 Body. Worse yet, the same
-> maximum damage roll does 12 Body.
Actually, half of 15 is 8 (in Champions defenses), so max is 11 body.
->
-> I assumed nothing. I did the math. Going from uninjured to "you will
-> bleed to death in 10 turns if you do not receive medical attention" in a
-> single shot is deadly.
->
I think you should go over your math again. You either go from uninjured to
taking 3-4 body, or from taking 4 body to taking 11 body (depending on whether
you are looking at average attacks or max outs).
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-3.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-3.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.133
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:57:17 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Supplement reviews?
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA11274
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Could someone post a brief review of the Allies book? It sounds
interesting, but it seems like it would be a lesser used book in my
collection, since I don't think I would want to crowd the universe with NPC
heroes that could steal the spotlight from the PC group.
I'd also appreciate the same for the High-Tech Enemies book and the Mutant
File book, if anyone has the time and inclination. I've pretty much
decided that these are on the "must have" list, but I'd still like to hear
about 'em.
Do any of these books offer explicit adventure ideas (as opposed to hinting
at them in character backgrounds), or are they straight character writeups
similar to Classic Enemies?
I'm just going through the out-of-print-but-still-available stuff to see
what I don't want to slip by, so I might ask for a few other "book reviews"
later....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:58:44 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
We've posted a document on our web site (www.herogames.com) about the Hero
Universe, which is the setting where Bay City and the New Millennium campaign
are placed. Hudson City is also a part of that, which is where the Dark
Champions revision will be set, as well as the Justice Inc. revision.
The Hero Universe is a grand tapestry of potential RPG settings, spanning time
and space from 100,000 years B.C. to many thousands of years in the future of
the galaxy. We're looking for authors to help fill in this tapestry by writing
campaign settings for it. Many would be published through Hero Plus in
electronic format; some would be published through Gold Rush Games or R.
Talsorian Games.
Please head over to the web site and check it out. If you're interested in
contributing, you can find our submission guidelines on the web site and email
Bruce Harlick at brucehh@aol.com about it.
I'm also curious to hear what settings people find of the most interest, and
others that may have been overlooked.
Thanks!
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:00:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >request.
>
> What about "The Coriolis Effect?"
Hmmm. I just got this one, myself. I want Red Doom and Scourge
>From the Deep.
But I'd think Circle and METE, Blood and Dr. McQuark, Enemies:
Internation File, and Villiany Unbound would be good ones for potential
rerelease.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: New millenium Errata??
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:02:47 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>
>
> ok, I'm not sure if this is actual errata or not, but I know it is really
> damn confusing for someone just trying to learn the system. Right now, my
> buddies and I are creating characters for the champions new millenium
> game. One person rolled on the origin tables, and got power armor, it
Hello;
You would do better to take this to the 'Fuzion Mailing list'
let me see if I can find it for you
(insert sounds of steam engines starting up as coal is shoved into the
engine's of my browser.)
This from http://www.herogames.com :
The Fuzion Mailing List
As you might have guessed, this mailing list dicusses Fuzion. If you
are interested, click on the link or mail a request to
fuzion-request@pjh.org. The subject and body text should say subscribe.
This particular mailing list deals with Champions and the Hero system, and not
Fuzion's C:TNM.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> << What about "The Coriolis Effect?" >>
>
> We still have copies for sale of the original printed version.
>
That was, IMHO, the best of the old Hero modules.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:18:56 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: James Bond Scenarios
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Which James Bond novels / movies would make good scenarios for a super-hero
game ?
Has anybody played or run in scenario inspired by one of the Bond movies ?
I've run one "master villain attempts to rob Fort Knox" scenario, equally
inspired by Goldfinger and the Adventurer's Club 'Raid on Fort Knox' article.
I've also run a 'colony under the sea' episode where the characters were on
the trail of Dr. Stromberg, noted marine biologist...
Curt Hicks
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:25:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> TRG> It seems Rat doesn't like anything useful to cross his path.
>
> Since when is a crock so blatant that it does not even pretend to fit with
> the existing mechanics qualify as "useful"?
Hmmmm. You seem to have ignored the remainder of my message. As
I inquired, if everything else in Hero can be described with points and
mechanics, why can't memories. Dispel/Suppress/Drain could be used to
drain things that technically weren't paid for, like, say, the DEF of some
object. I'm sure you can think of other examples of normal things that
have point representations and can be affected by powers.
So, given that thoughts and memories have some rating under
existing mental powers, why not extrapolate for various adjustment-type
powers?
Besides, this is about the best way I've seen to represent the MiB
Memory Eraser without it costing way too much for the effectiveness.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
David B Stallard writes:
> I have no reason or desire to switch from Hero to some other system
<zappity>
> Could someone, maybe in private mail to keep this list on track, give a
> brief rundown of these systems and how they differ from Champs?
Oh, but bashing other systems on a mailing list is _such_ fun.
GURPS Supers: the GURPS system is good for a lot of things, though like any
system it has its quirks, but the Supers supplement is notoriously bad. GURPS
resembles HERO in a number of ways, both are point-based 3d6-based systems, the
things you are most likely to notice:
Damage: this is linear in GURPS (depending on how you look at it, lifting
ability is either first or second order in strength). This means that
extremely high power characters work quite a bit differently -- in Hero the
difference between 50 strength (10d6 punch) and 60 strength (12d6) is not huge,
in GURPS this is 160 ST (17d6 punch) vs 320 (33d6), which _is_ huge. If you're
a fan of street-level games, this may not be a problem.
Lethality: GURPS supers offers a number of _optional_ rules on damage. The
system is unplayable without them...people will either be utterly unharmed, or
they'll die instantly.
Powers: while second-edition supers added the concepts of 'enhancement' and
'limitation' (read: advantage/limitation), 'ice jet' and 'flame jet' are still
separate powers. There is no general power-creation system.
Technology: there is no concept of restricting people's ability to pick up
guns/armor/whatever, and such items are actually sufficiently powerful that
most people will want to use them...
--Overall: the GURPS system could do a reasonable job at a reasonably
street-level supers game (such as Dark Champions), not so good at higher power
levels. However, the Supers supplement itself is garbage.
Heroes Unlimited: I usually avoid palladium products, and this one was no
exception. I've looked very briefly at it and wasn't impressed.
Villians and Vigilantes: I've only looked at the first edition of this game;
it's an amusing random character creation system, though characters tend to be
somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in Marvel Super
Heroes. The combat system is somewhat quirky, and quite cinematic, with some
notable holes (for example, on average a housecat vs a tyrannosaurus rex is a
fair fight). The second edition of the game is supposedly point-based, but
I've never actually seen it. Technically, the game is still in print, you can
get materials by contacting the company directly (FGU, I think), but it's
hardly 'active'.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:37:31 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "SB" == Sam Bell <Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
SB> I think you should go over your math again. You either go from
SB> uninjured to taking 3-4 body, or from taking 4 body to taking 11 body
SB> (depending on whether you are looking at average attacks or max outs).
Without Bob's crit system, as things are right now, "you" take 3-4 Body
from the maximum damage of the attack described. With it, "you" take 11-12
Body from the maximum damage of the same attack. The former might not be
considered deadly. The latter is devestating.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqOiJ6VRH7BJMxHAQGN0wP/Z6DdZtR4zRV2qwfRLQzAL1NCfMCwh+g/
4aFwY7PUJDsyqHNB25bkaS+FNb2ibck9Rex0+poBVMYZcB2kFbtj3/8AoaIlebNc
iWDoH3UCFK7A6qDmSRdAW+Y3MS+OrysVPeoDc8yHqnkcbG8k0LDl+Tw/Rpn/QnFi
QJLiZ1iUOqA=
=2b2q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.teleport.com from miq@teleport.com server @smtp2.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.20
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: 14 years ago tomorrow
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Just an early birthday greeting, here.
How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
--
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.teleport.com from miq@teleport.com server @smtp2.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.20
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:42:44 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sorry for the spam
Since the list moved, the mail headers just haven't been the same........
--
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:42:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I have no reason or desire to switch from Hero to some other system (my
> opinion of Fuzion is being formed, although I think I prefer Hero at this
> point), but I'm curious to know a little bit about the other systems out
> there. I'm vaguely familiar with Marvel SH and DC Heroes...I have the 1st
> editions of both but haven't played either one. The games I don't know
> anything about are: GURPS Supers (or, I guess, GURPS in general), Heroes
> Unlimited (or whatever that Palladium game is called), and Villains &
> Vigilantes (is this one still being published?).
Not a bad idea, especially with the new Marvel SH coming out. And
I'd like to know more about Superworld and Superbabes, myself. Heck, I've
heard rumors of a Super Hero setting for the D6 universe (WEG).
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:43:21 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Hmmmm. You seem to have ignored the remainder of my message. As
TRG> I inquired, if everything else in Hero can be described with points
TRG> and mechanics, why can't memories.
If it has a point cost, one can pay points for it. When was the last time
any of your characters had to spend any points for memories acquired after
the start of the campaign?
The entire premise is flawed.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqP4J6VRH7BJMxHAQE02QP/S8XPFNbszxkNL5M2UXvnF4WToEetJ5dO
QBSU7huiQiKrBLkb66UFBL6hJvn70PzX7/CMSy6LxPfxFZoVLwdjvsDOS62h/x2V
TOmCR7kwaF48qNl6VhqYb7z+XSLi8brQ3iu1bw8/M4DKLqboMm1rP1gaT84WtlR7
LqC1ufMVcdo=
=DPcb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo bermuda.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@bermuda.io.com ip 199.170.88.7
X-Authentication-Warning: bermuda.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:50:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On 7 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> Hero already has a "critical damage" system in effect. It is called
> "rolling damage dice".
Unfortunately (and this is what Bob is trying to fix, I think), said
'critical damage' system - and indeed, the HERO damage system in general -
has very little to do with the skill of the attacker.
One can hit with a 3 and do minimum damage, one can hit exactly and do
maximum damage. This is an artifact of the system - it happens because
the 'to-hit' roll was basically designed as a pass-fail.
If you think of the to hit roll as determining 'did I hit or not', you're
fine, because then the damage dice determine 'how well did I hit'. If you
look at it as determining 'how well (if at all) did I hit?', then you're
going to have problems with the system as it stands.
There's probably room for an optional rule in this that bases damage done
on how much you beat your target number by, but the vast array of
probabilities daunt me.
(Unfortunately, I deleted the original proposal, so I can't comment on it
here...Bob, can you resend please? Thanks. The other thing I want to be
clear on is exactly what you're trying to do with this crit-hit system -
is it that highly skilled characters don't do more damage than those with
less skill?)
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:00:38 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Any interest in a far-future, LSH-type setting? I'm currently running one,
and, at this early stage of the game, it seems to be succesful...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:23:34 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Miq Millman wrote:
>Just an early birthday greeting, here.
>
>How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
>
>Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
>
Misdirected mail. Gotta love it.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:23:34 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Miq Millman wrote:
>Just an early birthday greeting, here.
>
>How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
>
>Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
>
Misdirected mail. Gotta love it.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:26:06 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org,
"INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:42 PM 4/7/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> Not a bad idea, especially with the new Marvel SH coming out. And
>I'd like to know more about Superworld and Superbabes, myself. Heck, I've
>heard rumors of a Super Hero setting for the D6 universe (WEG).
>
Apparently, WEG has got the DC liscence. I've heard this from a Reliable
Source TM.
Superman vs. Darth Vader, anyone?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:26:06 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org,
"INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:42 PM 4/7/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> Not a bad idea, especially with the new Marvel SH coming out. And
>I'd like to know more about Superworld and Superbabes, myself. Heck, I've
>heard rumors of a Super Hero setting for the D6 universe (WEG).
>
Apparently, WEG has got the DC liscence. I've heard this from a Reliable
Source TM.
Superman vs. Darth Vader, anyone?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:33:08 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement reviews?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:57 PM 4/7/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Could someone post a brief review of the Allies book? It sounds
>interesting, but it seems like it would be a lesser used book in my
>collection, since I don't think I would want to crowd the universe with NPC
>heroes that could steal the spotlight from the PC group.
That problem is nicely worked around; most of the groups and heroes in
there have hooks that could bring them into directly conflict with PCs. In
fact, there's only one group in there that would probably steal the
spotlight from the PCs, and that's their conflict hook (the Flashmen like
to take more public credit than they're due, and they're very good at it too).
There's also Executive Sanction, a low-powered group of Feds; the Posse,
a bunch of killer vigilantes; the Braverman Foundation, a literal circus
full of bricks; Zen Team, a corporate-owned sentai; the Redeemed, a bunch
of ex-supervillains trying to go straight; and the Cyberknights, a more
classic, if decidedly high-tech, group of heroes. Solo heroes cover a wide
range from the comedic to the horrific, and even a couple with political
overtones.
On the whole, it's a very well-planned and well-organized book with a
lot more in the way of story hooks than one would expect from a volume of
superheroes. And most of the groups (Executive Sanction, Zen Team, the
Redeemed, and the Cyberknights) are potentially good resources for heroes,
too.
>I'd also appreciate the same for the High-Tech Enemies book and the Mutant
>File book, if anyone has the time and inclination. I've pretty much
>decided that these are on the "must have" list, but I'd still like to hear
>about 'em.
High-Tech Enemies is a very good book (I'd call it just short of
"excellent") for any GM who wants to run a lot of high-tech adventures; if
you can use Corporations and Allies as companion books (the latter for the
Cyberknights), you can even fun an all-out high-tech superhero campaign.
Its only real weaknesses are the somewhat inflated power levels of the
villains, and the lack of real story hooks.
The Mutant File is arguably overpowered for most campaigns, particularly
the updating of Genocide. (In Sean Fannon's defense, much of the "power
inflation" in this book was reportedly mandated by the Hero Guys, though
some of it may have been an overreaction to said mandate.) The actual
mutants in this book, though, are either lower-powered or meant to be used
in smaller groups; this makes it much easier for lower-powered PCs.
>Do any of these books offer explicit adventure ideas (as opposed to hinting
>at them in character backgrounds), or are they straight character writeups
>similar to Classic Enemies?
You get a little of each. There's a good number of good story hooks in
both Allies and The Mutant File, and all three books have one or two short
adventure write-ups in the back. (Allies also has a page and a half of
quick one-paragraph suggestions.)
>I'm just going through the out-of-print-but-still-available stuff to see
>what I don't want to slip by, so I might ask for a few other "book reviews"
>later....
Go ahead. I own everything from the BBB through Watchers of the Dragon,
so just ask away.
And, of course, others will have differing opinions.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:33:39 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/7/98 1:05:52 PM, you wrote:
<< But I'd think Circle and METE, Blood and Dr. McQuark, Enemies:
Internation File, and Villiany Unbound would be good ones for potential
rerelease.
>>
Sure, once we run out of them. Circle and METE is already out of print, and
Aaron is in the throes of reworking them as part of his grand Strike Force
revision (which will result in approximately 10 books or so from Hero Plus).
However, he's been slowed by a small matter of having to write New York Times-
bestselling Star Wars novels (see Wraith Squadron, first of several).
If you want to see what we still have in stock, go to our web site at
www.herogames.com and look in the Products section for complete listings.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:39:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > << What about "The Coriolis Effect?" >>
> >
> > We still have copies for sale of the original printed version.
> >
> That was, IMHO, the best of the old Hero modules.
I prefered Wrath of the 7 Horsemen and VOICE of Doom, myself. And
I need a copy of The Island of Doctor Destroyer, come to think about it.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:42:44 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:37 PM 4/7/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "SB" == Sam Bell <Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
>
>SB> I think you should go over your math again. You either go from
>SB> uninjured to taking 3-4 body, or from taking 4 body to taking 11 body
>SB> (depending on whether you are looking at average attacks or max outs).
>
>Without Bob's crit system, as things are right now, "you" take 3-4 Body
>from the maximum damage of the attack described. With it, "you" take 11-12
>Body from the maximum damage of the same attack. The former might not be
>considered deadly. The latter is devestating.
This assumes that (1) the attack did roll a natural 3, and (2) the
"accidental Find Weakness" was successful.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:46:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> --Overall: the GURPS system could do a reasonable job at a reasonably
> street-level supers game (such as Dark Champions), not so good at higher power
> levels. However, the Supers supplement itself is garbage.
How about the various other Supers releases. Some look like good
potential character sources. I actually have Superscum, but am not sure
how to go about converting characters. "School of Hard Knocks" is an OK
adventure for GURPS Supers that, as a bonus, Aaron Allston provides Champs
conversions for on his web site. Any other good suppliments?
> Heroes Unlimited: I usually avoid palladium products, and this one was no
> exception. I've looked very briefly at it and wasn't impressed.
Any good character ideas?
> Villians and Vigilantes: I've only looked at the first edition of this game;
> it's an amusing random character creation system, though characters tend to be
> somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in Marvel Super
> Heroes. The combat system is somewhat quirky, and quite cinematic, with some
> notable holes (for example, on average a housecat vs a tyrannosaurus rex is a
> fair fight). The second edition of the game is supposedly point-based, but
Cat vs T-Rex? How does that work?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:48:25 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:50 PM 4/7/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>There's probably room for an optional rule in this that bases damage done
>on how much you beat your target number by, but the vast array of
>probabilities daunt me.
I do have such a system on my website, as a variation of the Diceless
Combat System, if you'd be interested in checking into that. This is my
actual method for relating damage done to the skill of the attacker.
>(Unfortunately, I deleted the original proposal, so I can't comment on it
>here...Bob, can you resend please? Thanks. The other thing I want to be
>clear on is exactly what you're trying to do with this crit-hit system -
>is it that highly skilled characters don't do more damage than those with
>less skill?)
What I'm actually trying to do with this system is to find a local place
to put the idea that, if a skilled character can Find Weakness on purpose,
then an unskilled one should be able to do it accidentally every so often.
After all, the weakness is there if it can be found on purpose, and so it
should be possible to find it by accident.
The original post of this Critical Hit system, including my brief
analysis, is as follows (unmodified since nobody who's made any worthwile
comment on it that I can recall offhand has actually read it):
Here's an idea for critical hits that I thought up a couple of weeks
ago. It does have a few holes in it (like the fact that there's no
Critical Miss equivalent), but I think it's something worth considering.
The idea came to me when I was wondering about Find Weakness. If an
expert can find a weakness by training (or whatever), why couldn't someone
occasionally find one by accident? How would that work?
So my rule suggestion is that this is exactly what happens when someone
rolls a natural 3 on an Attack Roll.
This form of Find Weakness is DEX-based instead of INT-based, and cannot
be bought up (since it's a combat event and not a Skill). Skill Levels do
not apply to it (not even Overall Levels). However, the character does get
a +1 for every 2 points the Attack Roll was actually made by. (If an 11 is
needed and a 3 is rolled, that's a difference of 8, so the character gets a
+4 to the Find Weakness.) If the target has Luck, then he may also get a
+1 for every level of Luck rolled.
The target's Lack of Weakness, if any, does apply to this Find Weakness.
The attacker may continue to roll Find Weakness, with the usual
cumulative penalty of -2 per successive Roll, until he misses one. Each
successful Roll cuts the target's defenses in half *for that attack only*.
Now, right off-hand, I can see a couple of problems with this:
1) As mentioned above, there's no "critical miss" equivalent to balance
this; if anyone has ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
2) It introduces yet more die-rolling to the game; in fact, when
invoked, there's a likely average of around 3 additional rolls each time.
(This could be fixed by making just one Find Weakness Roll, and halving the
target's defenses for every +2 that it's made by.)
On the other hand, it has these strengths:
1) It increases the damage actually done without messing with the basic
amount done, making it arguably just a little more true-to-life than just
declaring that maximum damage is done.
2) Its effect is variable -- some hits are more critical than others.
3) It covers an occurrance (accidental Find Weakness) that logically
should be able to happen from time to time.
4) The problems mentioned above are mitigated somewhat by two things:
(a) it will only happen in one Attack Roll out of 216, and (b) it's as
likely to happen to the bad guys as to the PCs.
If this idea goes over reasonably well with the list, I may add an
adaptation of this rule to my Diceless Combat System.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:48:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> TRG> I inquired, if everything else in Hero can be described with points
> TRG> and mechanics, why can't memories.
>
> If it has a point cost, one can pay points for it. When was the last time
> any of your characters had to spend any points for memories acquired after
> the start of the campaign?
All the time, actually. I happen to like to purchase Knowledge
Skills, especially Area Knowledges. These are nothing more than memories.
> The entire premise is flawed.
You've provided no evidence as such. However, I do think a memory
erasing/dispelling power could be a good addition to the system. It has
enough special properties to be distinct from anything else in the system.
It would result in less kludges of Mind Control, Telepathy, or Transform.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:50:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> SB> I think you should go over your math again. You either go from
> SB> uninjured to taking 3-4 body, or from taking 4 body to taking 11 body
> SB> (depending on whether you are looking at average attacks or max outs).
>
> Without Bob's crit system, as things are right now, "you" take 3-4 Body
> from the maximum damage of the attack described. With it, "you" take 11-12
> Body from the maximum damage of the same attack. The former might not be
> considered deadly. The latter is devestating.
Um, that's the point of a Critical Hit. However, the same effect
would be noted were a character to have Find Weakness to begin with.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:50:27 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:25 PM 4/7/1998 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> Besides, this is about the best way I've seen to represent the MiB
>Memory Eraser without it costing way too much for the effectiveness.
You mean, the neuralizer a.k.a. flasher-thingie? :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwu.ericy.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwu.ericy.com ip 208.196.3.162
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:52:12 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> writes:
> GURPS Supers: the GURPS system is good for a lot of things, though like any
> system it has its quirks, but the Supers supplement is notoriously bad. GURPS
.....
> However, the Supers supplement itself is garbage.
>
Are you just referring to the 'supplement' that has the Supers rules ?
I've got most if not all of the GURPS Supers Supplements, IST, Supertemps,
Superscum, etc. etc, and found all of them pretty good.
Curt
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:01:46 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:04 PM 4/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> << What about "The Coriolis Effect?" >>
>>
>> We still have copies for sale of the original printed version.
>>
> That was, IMHO, the best of the old Hero modules.
I really liked the Protect and Serve module myself
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:02:45 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:43 PM 4/7/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>
>TRG> Hmmmm. You seem to have ignored the remainder of my message. As
>TRG> I inquired, if everything else in Hero can be described with points
>TRG> and mechanics, why can't memories.
>
>If it has a point cost, one can pay points for it. When was the last time
>any of your characters had to spend any points for memories acquired after
>the start of the campaign?
With this system introduced, it's now possible. I could have an
ancient, mystic crystal in my campaign that contains a person's memory of
an important event (Memory, important, 20 Active Points; OAF, 10 real
points). Any person who holds the crystal would have access to the memory.
If there was some mystery to the event, whether its overall appearance or
some small detail, then it could become an important plot element. And
some other group -- say, DEMON -- may want that memory permanently
suppressed, and try to use a Dispel to get rid of it.
A magic-using PC might even want to go through the trouble of making
such a gem (or a high-tech PC could make the technological equivalent).
This is a lot easier than some rules kludge using Extra-Dimensional
Telepathy or Eidetic Memory UBO or some such.
Personally, I would've used about half the values that Steve gave in TUM
for most of the fixed values, using Eidetic Memory as a starting point.
But that's just me.
What would you say is the better way to do this? Remember to match the
desired effect exactly -- the memory does *not* come back.
>The entire premise is flawed.
Yours seems more flawed: No New Mechanics. Even after 5th Edition is
out, even with whatever power expansions go into it, there will be a need
for new mechanics for things that weren't considered at the time. Those of
us with imaginations (especially the more twisted imaginagions) are always
coming up with strange new effects that don't smoothly fit into the
existing Hero System rules.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:06:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>> somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in Marvel Super
>> Heroes. The combat system is somewhat quirky, and quite cinematic, with some
>> notable holes (for example, on average a housecat vs a tyrannosaurus rex is a
>> fair fight). The second edition of the game is supposedly point-based, but
>
> Cat vs T-Rex? How does that work?
Fluffy jumps on T-Rex and tries to claw its eyeballs out. Classic conflict
if I ever heard one. Of course, all Fluffy should really be able to do is
distract the T-Rex, giving little Jimmy time to run away and hide under
something. It's the sort of thing you'd see in a Disney flick ^_^.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:07:23 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:00 PM 4/7/1998 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Any interest in a far-future, LSH-type setting? I'm currently running one,
>and, at this early stage of the game, it seems to be succesful...
Before the move from ICE to RTG, there was talk of "Champions 3000,"
which would resemble an LSH-type setting. In the Hero Universe timeline
(at least, on my printout of it; and I don't think things have changed
since then), the centuries leading up to the 50th are the era of "Galactic
Champions."
If you want to write it, I'd probably want to buy it (I may even want to
correspond with you about it, since I'm trying to get dibs on the earliest
part of that period for an idea of my own).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 18:09:17 -0400
Lines: 31
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "S" == Sakura <jeffj@io.com> writes:
S> Unfortunately (and this is what Bob is trying to fix, I think), said
S> 'critical damage' system - and indeed, the HERO damage system in general
S> - has very little to do with the skill of the attacker.
Guess what? It is possible to hit someone in the head with a .44Mag and
barely scratch him. Or the same weapon can kill him instantly with a head
shot. Which result actually happens has nothing to do with the skill of
the attacker. The damage multiples on the hit location chart really do
provide a fair approximation of what could happen.
Where the attacker's skill comes into play is calling specific locations to
get the nasty damage multiples.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqkC56VRH7BJMxHAQH2KwP+N0qQnx4NKZKrVMAxoZ/dkCsYgE7QCkT7
22JVfF76MY8CiW0T9ZaSd156t6gxDgcPbz0X7bdI00ndW9R9dquPzH9PDaAgxFE1
PAkjDhU8YxflaUVNeRNyioUOjfr/kblsfDGCSUMDXb2SWbJqOVLv+381DbWQIX1D
A2KglDBlRHQ=
=FMtJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:10:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Curt Hicks writes:
>
> Are you just referring to the 'supplement' that has the Supers rules ?
> I've got most if not all of the GURPS Supers Supplements, IST, Supertemps,
> Superscum, etc. etc, and found all of them pretty good.
Yes. The supplements _for_ gurps supers were decent enough (though they had a
bit of a tendency to invent new rules...), it's just Supers itself which is
bad.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:15:43 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I'm running a highly variant Fantasy Hero game ("Arduin Hero") and I
created a new ego power called 'Forget':
It basically works like Mind Control, Telepathy, etc. It costs 5pts/d6 and
it uses Ego vs Ego to target. The difference is that is uses Int for the
effect table and for making 'breakout' rolls.
Forget Table:
total greater Target
than: forgets:
Int Trivia, Mundane Events
Int+10 Interesting Events, Seldom-Used Knowledge
Int+20 Remarkable Events, Oft-Used Knowledge
Int+30 Target's name, religious affiliation, etc
Example: Oblivio is on the run, and he runs into a cop. He runs
off, but before losing sight he attempts to make the cop forget
the incident. The GM rules that meeting Oblivio, a villain in a
purple jumpsuit with a big green "O" on his chest is a remarkable
event, so he must get Int+20. Oblivio has 12d6 of Forget and rolls
well: 47. The cop only had a 10 Int so he rolled 17 more than he
needed, now the cop is at -3 to his Int rolls to 'break out'. He
rolls a 12 on his phase, then a 10 on post-12. On his own, it may
take him hours to remember. Just then, the Krimson Kid, hot on
Oblivio's trail, stops by. At first the cop can't remember anything,
but as long as the Kid keeps asking questions ("You know, big guy,
purple suit, yellow cape, he was just here a minute ago...") the
cop will keep getting to make an Int roll every phase.
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:16:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Tim R. Gilberg writes:
> Cat vs T-Rex? How does that work?
Oddities having to do with how damage is computed, and how 'hit points' were
computed. Damage was exponential (similar to Hero) and in most cases you just
had hit points, not armor; thus a cat did around 1d4, the dinosaur something
like 2d10, 3d10 (I don't remember exactly). Hit points were computed in an
arcane formula which included size, stamina, agility, and a few other things --
the idea being that 'hit points' weren't raw physical toughness, they just
represented an overall ability to take damage, be it by absorbing hits, rolling
with the blow, or whatever. Not necessarily a bad idea, actually kind of
interesting. Anyway, the cat had gobs of agility on the T-rex; the cat had
some 8 hp vs the T-rex's 50 or so (after applying agility, etc). The cat was
thus more accurate (higher agility) and I think got a bonus to damage due to
agility as well, plus it acted 2-3 times as often as the T-rex. However, if
the T-rex got a hit the cat died. I finally worked out that in the time it
would take the cat to (on average) claw the T-rex to ribbons, the T-rex had
about a 50% chance of scoring a hit on (and killing) the cat.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:40:13 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< But I'd think Circle and METE, Blood and Dr. McQuark, Enemies: Internation
File, and Villiany Unbound would be good ones for potential rerelease. >>
I believe we still have all of those in stock. Not a lot, but a few.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:41:02 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Supplement reviews?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Could someone post a brief review of the Allies book? It sounds
interesting, but it seems like it would be a lesser used book in my
collection, since I don't think I would want to crowd the universe with NPC
heroes that could steal the spotlight from the PC group. >>
So change the costumes and names and use them as NPC villains... ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:46:47 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
You can check out http://www.mrlizard.com/gaming/sentry.html for some notes
on the universe. It's a bit sparse because it is 'common knowledge' that my
players have as well -- no Hidden GM Tidbits.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:50:32 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>In the queue to be turned into electronic format: the VIPER sourcebook,
>Fantasy Hero (though Hero Games still has a handful of printed copies
>available for direct sale, we're putting this into electronic format to make
>it available to distribution), Classic Organizations, Lands of Mystery, and
>Mystic Masters. In some cases (like Lands of Mystery) the author wants to
make
>changes, so that will delay the project.
This brings up another point I should have thought of before: do these
faithful electronic reproductions include the original errors, or in cases
where errata has been published, have those corrections been incorporated?
>In the case of some books (like Wings of the Valkyrie) the author has
>requested that we do not put it into electronic format, so we're honoring
that
>request.
I don't think I know that one...must be one of the earlier double-digit
product numbers, and I have most of those.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:59:19 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:39 AM 4/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>In the case of some books (like Wings of the Valkyrie) the author has
>>requested that we do not put it into electronic format, so we're honoring
>that
>>request.
>
> What about "The Coriolis Effect?"
I have two copies of that one; want one? Every once in a while I find a
stash of old Hero products at comic shop or book store and can't remember
for sure which ones I have. I have duplicates now of Coriolis, plus
Enemies: the International File, VOICE, The Spell Book, and Almanac 2. The
few things I know I'm missing are Enemies: Villainy Unbound, the original
Red Doom (got the 4th Ed update), Watchers of the Dragon, AC1 and AC4
(plus some of the electronic-format-only Hero Plus products). Most of
those are available from Hero, I just keep neglecting to order them.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:02:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> << But I'd think Circle and METE, Blood and Dr. McQuark, Enemies:
> Internation File, and Villiany Unbound would be good ones for potential
> rerelease.
> >>
>
> Sure, once we run out of them. Circle and METE is already out of print, and
> Aaron is in the throes of reworking them as part of his grand Strike Force
> revision (which will result in approximately 10 books or so from Hero Plus).
> However, he's been slowed by a small matter of having to write New York Times-
> bestselling Star Wars novels (see Wraith Squadron, first of several).
Oh, I have the pre-4th editions of these products. I just want to
see them updated to 4th or 5th edition.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 19:08:00 -0400
Lines: 26
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Um, that's the point of a Critical Hit. However, the same effect
TRG> would be noted were a character to have Find Weakness to begin with.
But in the case of Find Weakness, you need several successful rolls, at
cumulative penalties, not to mention range modifers, to achieve the
effect. Not to mention the fact that Find Weakness has a Big Huge Stop
Sign on it (or at least a magnifying glass... I forget off-hand which).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqxz56VRH7BJMxHAQF58AQAxj4J2Ln6LZGr9Tk47nS1m6UeRQq3gKGN
iR9h3USvq5dEaRWXrkKYeb8E3XD+89W18EfEOsHN9NZwsxuT1/Dxu4tpVABcSTIt
nzLyDDbNDUDig+65DGPvSphIs7YU8jUhMBDM57xDsbvUlvR2g5PHvzcgiUDBvW7x
EQ/1BoOuowQ=
=wbBA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 19:10:02 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> All the time, actually. I happen to like to purchase Knowledge
TRG> Skills, especially Area Knowledges. These are nothing more than
TRG> memories.
So, how much is remembering my nephew's birthday party worth? Can I
permanantly sell those memories back for points?
How much is 30 years worth of memories like that worth? Can I get points
for those in addition to Physical Limitation: Amnesia?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqySJ6VRH7BJMxHAQF20AQAlk40AN/c3TD6eVktGMrT7j7ASHmePiIH
d/aPc58kSOQ3cpBiVR+Dy8Wo+n/Mn8dkDZCwNpwJkVM0coije0U9raKwZaFk+M0V
t0OC3bri83av8dV6QWgIjy8EUbCnxSjfTcgJmcElH8J8ENqe3DgJ9SmFBGOpuUxg
Ww7bQvqpiog=
=GhTh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 19:14:25 -0400
Lines: 26
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "SB" == Sam Bell <Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
SB> It basically works like Mind Control, Telepathy, etc. It costs 5pts/d6
SB> and it uses Ego vs Ego to target. The difference is that is uses Int
SB> for the effect table and for making 'breakout' rolls.
Telepathy used to work on Intelligence, rather than Ego, and at a +20 level
of effect it could affect memories, at least temporarilly. "Permanant"
changes, of course, required Transformation.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSqzT56VRH7BJMxHAQGI7gP/XudCRpqHOLkuqo1EIFBnKXbmiYFCm0uS
7gnuj8HkmYWMR5gB01BrQUYTiiOlh82YmhQK4eXfl6j5aWXoqUs0Z+sTdxoMzRNz
IErfIryHVLCx2tQ5HpSZrBurDSowubYG8CcgPWjHZCpSDtcHewOacW75p+ZLyHzH
6x3UOeXOWA0=
=UfC1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:37:15 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Low Gravity and STR
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Ifthe PCs are on the moon, how would this affect their STR? I was thinking
of granting +10 STR for lifting purposes and jumping purposes, but not for
damage purposes. Any thoughts?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:38:45 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>The Hero Universe is a grand tapestry of potential RPG settings, spanning
time
>and space from 100,000 years B.C. to many thousands of years in the future of
>the galaxy. We're looking for authors to help fill in this tapestry by
writing
>campaign settings for it. Many would be published through Hero Plus in
>electronic format; some would be published through Gold Rush Games or R.
>Talsorian Games.
Having read the document in question, I find I have mixed feelings about
it. I am a little concerned that it represents a step toward
standardization of a sort that the Big Two comics companies have had a
great deal of trouble with. GMs continue to be fre to run their house
games any way they see fit, but I see potential problems if future
published products will be expected to conform to this mold.
For one thing, a would-be game author may just decide it's not worth the
trouble of heavily revising his concept to include some of the assumptions
the Timeline makes, or an otherwise fine product might be rejected for that
reason.
Also (and this is where Marvel and DC had trouble) the Timeline as it
stands now is fairly general, but if it's built on by upcoming "official"
products, it gains more weight. What happens when a conflict is found
between a pre-"Hero Universe 1.0" game product and the new Timeline? One
of two things: retconning, or a discrepancy that must be ignored no matter
how blatant it may be. Those comic companies spent decades putting out
unrelated stories and then tried to tie them all together and reinvent
their respective universes. Results were uniformly disastrous. Whether or
not that will happen here depends largely on how strictly the Timeline is
enforced for published products.
>I'm also curious to hear what settings people find of the most interest, and
>others that may have been overlooked.
The above concerns aside, I was impressed with the sheer scope of the
Timeline. I do not play Fantasy Hero, and am likely to ignore everything
prior to 1500 A.D. (over 100,000 years of Hero Universe history!) The
settings I'd be most interested in are Two-Fisted Champions/Golden Age
Champions (big, big, fan of the Shadow, Doc Savage, the Green Hornet and so
on), and Solar Hero/Interstellar Hero. Our group usually plays Champions
which, though set in the '90s, are best described by the tone of Silver Age
Champions.
My Star Hero campaign starts in two weeks and is set in 2248 A.D. with FTL
Travel and two extrasolar colony worlds, terraforming of Mars well
underway, but no aliens yet contacted. I'd be willing to play in a
far-future setting like Galactic Champions, but wouldn't run that game and
so might not buy products for it. Ah, who am I kidding... I'm an addict,
I'll buy anything I'll play.
We had mammoths and mammoth hunters in North America as recently as 9000
B.C., they do not need to be relegated to the Bronze Age.
Missing eras include Napoleonic Hero (in between Revolutionary and
Victorian). No mention is made of the American Civil War, the War of 1812,
the French Revolution, or World War I as potential settings for War Hero.
The 1990's seem conspicuously absent as well.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:49:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> So, how much is remembering my nephew's birthday party worth? Can I
> permanantly sell those memories back for points?
Well, it'd depend on the GM, but most would allow little more that
Psych Lim: Absentminded here. We're talking about unimportant (to the
game) knowledges. That said, a mechanic other than Transform would be
nice to make someone forget these types of memories.
> How much is 30 years worth of memories like that worth? Can I get points
> for those in addition to Physical Limitation: Amnesia?
Nope, mostly for the reason that most of these memories (read,
KSs) are free. They're part of what everyone has. More important ones,
like detailed knowledge of Hudson City's Underworld, cost points. And
Phys Lim: Amnesia (maybe Psych Lim, depends on the SFX) would be worth
enough to cover not having these everyman freebie KSs.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:22:34 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/7/98 3:58:00 PM, you wrote:
<<This brings up another point I should have thought of before: do these
faithful electronic reproductions include the original errors, or in cases
where errata has been published, have those corrections been incorporated?>>
We are trying to include corrections, especially any that the author requests,
in the electronic versions of the books.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:44:58 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Transformation Attacks (5ED)?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:02 PM 4/6/1998 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Hm...some time ago, I was considering writing up transform after the
>style of a mental power, and I finally completed it. The result is somewhat
>better defined than a standard Hero transform, and hopefully not completely
>imbalanced; I'm curious what people think.
I took a while to peruse this, and I think it look quite interesting.
Certainly there's a lot of thought given to quantifying how Transform works.
Other than organizing the bonuses a little more neatly, the only thing
I'd recommend is having the effects go against BODY rather than CON.
There's a strong history for using BODY for Transforms, and it makes it
easier to apply logically to machines and inanimate objects, which have
BODY but not CON.
Since no big discussion was raised over it, what I think I'll do is hold
on to that post of yours and look it over more closely at a later date. If
it wasn't such a radical change from 4th edition, not to mention after the
April 1st deadline, I'd say that it stood a good chance of getting in as a
5th edition rule; as it is, I think we'll have to wait for 6th edition, or
maybe some Hero System Almanac.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:59:37 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:14 PM 4/7/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "SB" == Sam Bell <Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
>
>SB> It basically works like Mind Control, Telepathy, etc. It costs 5pts/d6
>SB> and it uses Ego vs Ego to target. The difference is that is uses Int
>SB> for the effect table and for making 'breakout' rolls.
>
>Telepathy used to work on Intelligence, rather than Ego, and at a +20 level
>of effect it could affect memories, at least temporarilly. "Permanant"
>changes, of course, required Transformation.
Even Transform isn't permanent; it can be healed back, either normally
or though a pre-defined "cure."
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:03:19 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:59 PM 4/7/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:39 AM 4/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>In the case of some books (like Wings of the Valkyrie) the author has
>>>requested that we do not put it into electronic format, so we're honoring
>>that
>>>request.
>>
>> What about "The Coriolis Effect?"
>
>I have two copies of that one; want one? Every once in a while I find a
>stash of old Hero products at comic shop or book store and can't remember
>for sure which ones I have. I have duplicates now of Coriolis, plus
>Enemies: the International File, VOICE, The Spell Book, and Almanac 2. The
>few things I know I'm missing are Enemies: Villainy Unbound, the original
>Red Doom (got the 4th Ed update), Watchers of the Dragon, AC1 and AC4
>(plus some of the electronic-format-only Hero Plus products). Most of
>those are available from Hero, I just keep neglecting to order them.
I'll take that spare Coriolis Effect. Other than Robot Gladiators, it's
the only book I'm really missing out on.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:11:14 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:37 PM 4/7/1998 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Ifthe PCs are on the moon, how would this affect their STR? I was thinking
>of granting +10 STR for lifting purposes and jumping purposes, but not for
>damage purposes. Any thoughts?
While +10 STR would represent 1/4X gravity, I think the moon's gravity
is actually closer to 1/6 the Earth's, which would mean +13 STR. (I looked
it up, but couldn't get a straight answer from Britannica; I really miss my
old World Book.) Otherwise I think that your way is the way to do it.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:15:54 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:15 PM 4/7/1998 -0700, Sam Bell wrote:
>
>I'm running a highly variant Fantasy Hero game ("Arduin Hero") and I
>created a new ego power called 'Forget':
>
>It basically works like Mind Control, Telepathy, etc. It costs 5pts/d6 and
>it uses Ego vs Ego to target. The difference is that is uses Int for the
>effect table and for making 'breakout' rolls.
It looks to me like it's essentially Mind Control redefined to work
against INT, with +1/4 for Telepathic Command and -1/4 for Limited Class of
Commands, and reconstructed into a Meta-Power. That said, though, I don't
think it's a necessarily *bad* construct. I think I'd leave it as I just
described it for my own game (maybe with an extra -1/2 Limitation for
working against INT, as per TUM), but this mechanic is workable on a
general basis for a house rule.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:12:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> TRG> Um, that's the point of a Critical Hit. However, the same effect
> TRG> would be noted were a character to have Find Weakness to begin with.
>
> But in the case of Find Weakness, you need several successful rolls, at
> cumulative penalties, not to mention range modifers, to achieve the
> effect. Not to mention the fact that Find Weakness has a Big Huge Stop
> Sign on it (or at least a magnifying glass... I forget off-hand which).
But that Find weakness mixed with the AP attack will have the
exact same effect, a whole lot more often, then a 1 in 216 chance further
reduced by a roll for potential Find Weakness after that 1 in 216.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:15:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> SB> It basically works like Mind Control, Telepathy, etc. It costs 5pts/d6
> SB> and it uses Ego vs Ego to target. The difference is that is uses Int
> SB> for the effect table and for making 'breakout' rolls.
>
> Telepathy used to work on Intelligence, rather than Ego, and at a +20 level
> of effect it could affect memories, at least temporarilly. "Permanant"
> changes, of course, required Transformation.
Well, besides the fact that even Transform isn't "permanent", this
is an area where, IMO, a new power would fit in well. I'd like something
more permanent than Sam Bell's -- if it's gone, it's gone -- at least
until, perhaps, therapy of some sort brings it back. Or you watch the
replay. The idea is common enough to deserve a mechanic, and it is
distinct enough from Mind Control or Telepathy to need something else.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 22:41:07 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> But that Find weakness mixed with the AP attack will have the
TRG> exact same effect, a whole lot more often,
Any GM that allows a combination of Find Weakness and Armor Piercing
deserves the nightmares it gives him.
TRG> then a 1 in 216 chance further reduced by a roll for potential Find
TRG> Weakness after that 1 in 216.
I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSrjwJ6VRH7BJMxHAQGMvQQAmfINPtKePVwnsT2JlB1YZEHHPdvwoLjd
2m4nX6qca19vxdCkDOpH9+g9WQQ2/BmW4gSDl67BUW0MA4qp40PYkJt39soDx02k
I4FxVlh8U69hUZdvLecMWud27BJQfFVrW6eX5D3yS8QeApwO9Kbgr23Y7MLT4G5V
SRfV+GIBubg=
=55ct
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 22:45:18 -0400
Lines: 39
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> So, how much is remembering my nephew's birthday party worth? Can I
>> permanantly sell those memories back for points?
TRG> Well, it'd depend on the GM, but most would allow little more that
TRG> Psych Lim: Absentminded here.
Now wait a second. I can take a disadvantage that says I walk with a limp,
and I can sell back some of my running to reflect it. If memories have an
active point cost, why is it that I cannot sell those off, too?
TRG> We're talking about unimportant (to the game) knowledges.
If they are not important, why do they have a point cost?
TRG> That said, a mechanic other than Transform would be nice to make
TRG> someone forget these types of memories.
As I previously mentioned, the previous incarnation of Telepathy had this
feature. That is a good place to start if you are looking for a "new"
power.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSrkvZ6VRH7BJMxHAQHYNwP/SGUeyLUlYWaskzWLKQ2d1gbQlCsSWJwP
eKESd/RI4zF219Rt223+HK2nbCkhUxmZCkE9y/BsIKELSzxcXSR6FHe2kjrtflGI
xXCLiS179uBxj8d4LZ8aQ3C0NdidmpAWzmiSfK+zRiXM/3OdwMl16Ray5liqgIZQ
nXf7YxNGJu8=
=9+2K
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories - another approach
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 22:47:21 -0400
Lines: 23
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Well, besides the fact that even Transform isn't "permanent",
Tim, the quotes around the word mean that I am deliberately using the word
with a meaning that is not precicely correct.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSrlNp6VRH7BJMxHAQFR9AQAn333GVVaqjrmjH5O+NYyYazoOs7tT4xi
HbddIevyYxH7hEeSwQvTwpcH1O7MByibWJqch8O3seTxmM4kgp8NX4G5YrTEQ/GO
xyt/iE6FEE0YgxUIWL8OjBLe5U8rX/CNCPrvYdzl6cEpzyZQXNPi6tXM2zWGWb7s
LPs8QUFX7wU=
=LB6b
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 22:53:58 -0400
Lines: 30
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "L" == Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> writes:
L> Ifthe PCs are on the moon, how would this affect their STR? I was
L> thinking of granting +10 STR for lifting purposes and jumping purposes,
L> but not for damage purposes. Any thoughts?
Weight, which is a function of gravity, and mass, which is not, are not the
same thing. If you have sufficient strength to move a thing and can
overcome whatever friction is holding in place (which is a weight/gravity
issue), you can move it regardless of how much it weighs.
Actually, when you get right down to it, +10 effective Strength is a
reasonable, if quick-and-dirty, way to do it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSrmxJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHzfAP/UpJ6WWkLhitC3LOfgBib6cVg4nrMnxbx
lBYSvqteIdf5f6GTxao9ni49B1s0MWEtCqNbExk7Yo2CS9yUjQ21xHn2TMTQ9A8Q
aAMEaoqAouAxslv41lpqJCaUolJm5rj0WMZ8wdi5VS/jk4h8ihrqUD7Yej9hlU0O
hqgKfy6zzos=
=5NXT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:57:36 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-> From ratinox@peorth.gweep.net Tue Apr 7 19:53:30 1998
->
-> Weight, which is a function of gravity, and mass, which is not, are not the
-> same thing. If you have sufficient strength to move a thing and can
-> overcome whatever friction is holding in place (which is a weight/gravity
-> issue), you can move it regardless of how much it weighs.
->
-> Actually, when you get right down to it, +10 effective Strength is a
-> reasonable, if quick-and-dirty, way to do it.
->
So, if we are in a stable orbit, or interstellar space (ie, weightless), do
we all get plus one zillion Str? To put it another way, ever hear of something
called inertia?
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:29:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
> TRG> But that Find weakness mixed with the AP attack will have the
> TRG> exact same effect, a whole lot more often,
>
> Any GM that allows a combination of Find Weakness and Armor Piercing
> deserves the nightmares it gives him.
I'd require a lessened DC on any powers affected, myself. But a
6d6 AP w/ Find Weakness isn't that bad.
> TRG> then a 1 in 216 chance further reduced by a roll for potential Find
> TRG> Weakness after that 1 in 216.
>
> I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
Yeah. A little less than .5% of the time, for me.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:36:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
> TRG> Well, it'd depend on the GM, but most would allow little more that
> TRG> Psych Lim: Absentminded here.
>
> Now wait a second. I can take a disadvantage that says I walk with a limp,
> and I can sell back some of my running to reflect it. If memories have an
> active point cost, why is it that I cannot sell those off, too?
You can sell of something with that Psych Lim: Absentminded. Buy
back some of your INT. But this is a case of having troubles with
memories rather than not having the memories.
In the case of Phys Lim: Amnesia we have a Phys Lim that takes
away Everyman abilities. Everyone has memories, some of yours are
missing. Only the important ones cost points to buy. However, if a
mechanic allows one to get rid of the memories, we can't let unimportant
ones go away for free any more than we can let the first 10 points of the
primary stats be drained for free.
> TRG> We're talking about unimportant (to the game) knowledges.
>
> If they are not important, why do they have a point cost?
For purposes of completeness. These are unimportant mental data
packets, but they exist and can be affected like any other.
> TRG> That said, a mechanic other than Transform would be nice to make
> TRG> someone forget these types of memories.
>
> As I previously mentioned, the previous incarnation of Telepathy had this
> feature. That is a good place to start if you are looking for a "new"
> power.
Possibly. However, a mechanic where this is the sole purpose of
the power would be nice. As is, we're looking at merely one potential
effect of Telepathy, and not one at the base level.
Considering the minor overlap in the other mental powers -- Mind
Control could easily be used for Telepathy and Mental Illusions, Mental
Illusions can act as a pseudo mind control, etc -- it makes sense to draw
this out to its own power. Differentiating the importance of memories
would allow a structure similar to the EGO, EGO+10, EGO+20, EGO+30, EGO+40
we see with the current mental powers. With the old Telepathy, we have
merely the Ego+20 level, and leave a lot up to discretion.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 07 Apr 1998 23:47:06 -0400
Lines: 42
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "SB" == Sam Bell <Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
SB> So, if we are in a stable orbit, or interstellar space (ie,
SB> weightless), do we all get plus one zillion Str? To put it another way,
SB> ever hear of something called inertia?
Yeah... and it has no bearing on how much you can lift/move, only how fast
you can move it.
Say you have a 10 Strength. On Earth, you must push your Strength to carry
a 400Kg object, unless it is on wheels (overcome friction). Even with
wheels, you will not be able to move it quickly.
On the Moon, which has a force of gravity roughly 1/6 that of Earth, you
can carry a 400Kg object without too much effort, because its weight is 1/6
what it was on Earth -- your effective Strength is 10 higher than normal
(actually, closer to 13 if you want to be a bit more realistic about it).
But it still has a mass of 400Kg, so you will not be able to move it any
faster than you could on Earth.
In a freefall environment, where there is effectively no acceleration due
to gravity, your lifting capacity is effectively infinite. You can carry
that 400Kg object with no effort at all because it has no weight. But it
still has a mass of 400Kg, so you will not be able to move it any faster
than you could on Earth or the Moon.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSrzOZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGqagQAkvFmTs7ACmmbpFDxqSepTxE7RcxTKZVw
ytjsG6ayxsYD2lfxcXtrkIz6QWzlQkdEVifEgtor1P208eEMV7Y7pjbuO55d4P05
VxSN16f/52qcaoW5bLlFhIG2t44JETSub9WcecbSkEAkIcmZcucCgRqA+BNuG3KL
ltPX98OU3Q0=
=lkAV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:54:15 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
At 04:37 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Ifthe PCs are on the moon, how would this affect their STR? I was thinking
>of granting +10 STR for lifting purposes and jumping purposes, but not for
>damage purposes. Any thoughts?
This has come up in preparations for our Star Hero game, where we not only
have to worry about the Moon, (0.16 G, Bob is correct) but also Mars (0.38
G) and two extrasolar colony worlds (1.2 G and 0.9 G respectively).
I start with the fact that kg is a measure of mass, not weight, so to keep
everything consistent, a native of Luna should be able to lift the same
mass *on Luna* that a person on Earth could lift. So, a Lunar character's
STR of 10 will lift 100kg within the domed city (the Lunar colony cities
maintain 0.8 G, since the lower outside gravity is just too inconvenient
for daily living; microgravity is bad for you over the long term).
However, once he got to Earth his STR would effectively be reduced to 9
because of the higher gravity.
I add and subtract END in similar ratios when you move to a higher or lower
gravity field. Moving into a lighter gravity field gains you 2 END for
every 1/10th G; you lose 2 END for every 1/10th G added if you enter a
higher gravity field than the one you're used to. These effects will be
temporary, but how long they last may depend on how much time you've been
in one gravity field before entering a different one.
And yes, the uses for the extra STR and END are limited to those which are
related to movement and lifting. You don't get an extra use out of your
Energy Blast or the ability to punch through walls.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shirley.theramp.net from voxel@theramp.net server @shirley.theramp.net ip 205.212.88.4
X-Sender: voxel@mail.theramp.net
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 23:11:29 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:08 AM 4/8/98 -0700, John Desmarais wrote:
>> Actually, didn't FASA put together its three major products?
>> Wasn't Earthdawn on the same world as Shadowrun, the latter being a
>> re-awakening of the magic of the former. And wasn't Battletech just
>> 1000 or so years after Shadowrun?
>
>I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
>of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
>Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
>each, lots of duplicates).
As I understand it, Earthdawn was conceived from the beginning as the
fantasy world from which all the magic elements in Shadowrun were
"awakening" FROM. As for Battletech -- I know they altered MechWarrior to
make it *mechanically* similar to Shadowrun (specifically the whole priority
chart 'n archtype system for chargen), but I never heard that there was any
*setting* connections.
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-4.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @dub-img-4.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.134
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:17:10 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id AAA05536
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
> Villians and Vigilantes: I've only looked at the first edition of this
game;
> it's an amusing random character creation system, though characters tend
to be
> somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in Marvel
Super
> Heroes. The combat system is somewhat quirky, and quite cinematic, with
some
> notable holes (for example, on average a housecat vs a tyrannosaurus rex
is a
> fair fight). The second edition of the game is supposedly point-based,
but
> I've never actually seen it. Technically, the game is still in print,
you can
> get materials by contacting the company directly (FGU, I think), but it's
> hardly 'active'.
I never did the House Cat vs. T-Rex scenario, but my favorite bit from V&V
was the damage given for nuclear bombs: Small: 1d100, Medium: 2d100, and
large: 4d100, so yes, it was possible to stand at ground zero of a large
nuclear bomb and take only 4 points of damage. Simply changing it to 10d10,
20d10, and 40d10 would have fixed that.
The second edition was vastly superior, as it got rid of that annoying
D&Dish bit of adding one hit die every level that gave high level
mentalists roughly the same hit points as high level bricks. It had several
flaws still (every Power Blast did the same amount of damage as every other
Power Blast), but the combat was simpler and faster to run than Hero, once
you got used to the DM's Guide style Combat chart. One positive gem was the
power, Cosmic Awareness, which I have adapted to Hero rules as a 30 point
Special Power, since there was no way to build it under Hero rules.
A few of the later supplements even included a V&V to Champions conversion
system that worked amazingly well. A huge number of NPCs in my campaign
were lifted from V&V modules, since I knew the players had never seen them.
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-2.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @hil-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.132
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:17:13 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id AAA05269
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
> You've provided no evidence as such. However, I do think a memory
> erasing/dispelling power could be a good addition to the system. It has
> enough special properties to be distinct from anything else in the
system.
> It would result in less kludges of Mind Control, Telepathy, or Transform.
The one time this came up in my campaign (when the PC's wanted to erase the
knowledge of one of their member's Secret ID from the mind of a villain to
whom she had inadvertently revealed it), I used the old Mental Paralysis
power as a model -- 15 pts per 1d6, 1 DEF per 30 points. The user of the
power states what memory (or memories) he would like to block, anything
from a single fact (like a PC's Secret ID) to total amnesia. After the
attack roll was made and the effect rolled, the target got one initial
attempt to break out. Thereafter, the target got another roll anytime
something happened that served to jog his memory -- the more sweeping the
memory loss, the more often something would happen that would cause the
character to try to break the effect, and in the case of total amnesia, the
character obviously got to roll every phase (or until he ran out of END!).
Skills could not be erased via this power, although the memory of having
such skills might be ("How did you do that?" "I don't know...")
Even though Mental Paralysis has gone the way of Piercing Points and Power
Destruction, I think the general model still holds up well... although I'm
sure many will disagree :-).
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-3.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @hil-img-3.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.133
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:17:20 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id AAA05296
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
This discussion is getting a little... heated (nothing new on THIS list,
eh? :-)), but I decided to throw my two cents in anyway. The following
system is based on what I have found to work well in my campaign.
Going under the assumption (well founded or not) that most players would
rather have some form of critical hit system than none at all, I considered
most of the traditional methods:
1) Automatic maximum damage -- I have seen this grind scenarios to
a screeching halt too many times to adopt this method. Villains who can
laugh of the average roll of the character's attack are usually flattened
by this, or at the very least Stunned;
2) Double damage -- same as above, only more so, since double the
average roll is actually more than the normal maximum damage;
3) An additional few dice of damage -- this is actually the
recommended approach of the Hero rules (HRB, pg 146), but I wasn't
satisfied with it, mainly because it doesn't guarantee that the damage done
will be significantly higher than normal, and testing showed that the
player who is given a few extra dice but subsequently rolls very low ends
up even more frustrated;
4) One GM allowed us to choose a Hit Location on a natural "3," but
since I never saw anyone choose any location other than "Head," this was
really just another way of saying "double damage."
So after determining what "didn't" work for me, I figured out what exactly
I was looking for, namely a system that guaranteed (or very nearly so) an
increase in damage, but not so much that it became unreasonable. With this
in mind, I decided to try simply increasing each die rolled by "1" with the
proviso that no die could roll higher than "6." To my surprise, this worked
exceedingly well -- the damage was shifted upwards, but it never exceeded
the maximum that was theoretically possible if the character rolled all
sixes.
FI, on a normal 12d6 attack, the average spread would look like: 1 1 2 2 3
3 4 4 5 5 6 6 = 42 STUN & 12 BODY. Using my system, this would become: 2 2
3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 = 52 STUN & 16 BODY. 1's are eliminated and 6's become
twice as common.
I know this isn't for everyone, since I'm sure a lot of players and GM's
probably like the occasional unexpected fight-ending critical hit, but it's
worked like a charm for me.
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:17:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
> > Besides, this is about the best way I've seen to represent the MiB
> >Memory Eraser without it costing way too much for the effectiveness.
>
> You mean, the neuralizer a.k.a. flasher-thingie? :-]
Um, yeah. I just didn't want to say any term that might be
copywrited. Yeah, that's it!
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from firelynx16@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: Firelynx16 <Firelynx16@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:30:30 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Damage based on 'to-hit' (was: Critical Hits)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
In a message dated 98-04-07 17:10:02 EDT, you write:
> One can hit with a 3 and do minimum damage, one can hit exactly and do
> maximum damage. This is an artifact of the system - it happens because
> the 'to-hit' roll was basically designed as a pass-fail.
>
> If you think of the to hit roll as determining 'did I hit or not', you're
> fine, because then the damage dice determine 'how well did I hit'. If you
> look at it as determining 'how well (if at all) did I hit?', then you're
> going to have problems with the system as it stands.
>
> There's probably room for an optional rule in this that bases damage done
> on how much you beat your target number by, but the vast array of
> probabilities daunt me.
I'll throw my own version of 'increased damage based on to-hit roll' in for
your discussion here.
For one of my characters, I bought a 10d6 Energy Blast (fire) in a game where
11-12d6 are the norm. Then, in addition to that, I bought 5 extra dice of
damage, based upon how much the to-hit roll was made by. The increments were
'to-hit roll made by 2, 3, 5, 6, & 8'. The Limitation for each die was
decided upon by basing the character's standard OCV with the attack versus the
campaign's average DCV. In this case, it was 12-. Then we simply compared
the modified rolls to their corresponding Activation rolls to get the Lim
value. So 'made by 2' became equivalent to a 10- (-1 1/4) for that die, and
so on.
This has been quite fun to play, and it hasn't unbalanced the game at all.
'Lynx
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-8.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @arl-img-8.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.138
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:52:06 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id AAA07025
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
> So, if we are in a stable orbit, or interstellar space (ie, weightless),
do
> we all get plus one zillion Str? To put it another way, ever hear of
something
> called inertia?
Well, actually yes, sort of. What I think you're thinking of as inertia is
really something different -- inertia describes the tendency of an object
that is at rest to remain at rest unless (and this is the important part)
acted upon by an outside force. So if you are hovering absolutely
motionless in interstellar space alongside a massive object (let's say the
Titanic - don't ask how it got there), and you kick off of that object, the
force of that kick will be divided between you and the Titanic. Since you
have so much less mass, the force will have a much more obvious effect on
you and you will begin moving in the opposite direction relative to the
force you applied. However, the Titanic will also begin moving away from
you, but since it is so much more massive, the effect will be much, much
smaller. Unless and until some other outside force acts upon it, it will
keep moving in that direction ad infinitum.
This is of course an incredible simplification, and it far surpasses the
extent of my limited physics knowledge to calculate how fast the Titanic
would actually move.
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:20:10 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Web Site Update...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
Hello all...
The Long suffering Herozine Web Site has finally been updated and given a
face lift.
So surf on over and check it out...
Michael Nunn
Main 'ziner
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:47:50 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
I think it's a mistake to try to make all these genre's exist in the
same world and timeline. This is like a multigenre RPG on drugs.
If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
world would be considered publishable. This knocks out huge chunks of
the fantasy genre.
It's a mistake to try to standardize it all this way. It would be like
trying to put Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, James Bond, Xena, a book on
the history of Egypt, and a Humphrey Bogart movie all together.
Some of these things don't mix. Their best left exclusive of each
other. Genre is about a lot more than when. It's about paradigms of how
reality works. Even that is only the beginning.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shirley.theramp.net from voxel@theramp.net server @shirley.theramp.net ip 205.212.88.4
X-Sender: voxel@mail.theramp.net
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:48:57 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:04 AM 4/8/98 +0000, Theala Sildorian wrote:
>I suggest you look at the plot points system proposed by Sean Fannon.
> Essentially, it allows players to earn "plot points" which may be
>used to pay for unusual special effects at critical moments in the
>game, such as re rolling bad die rolls, or using Powers in ways which
>severly bend the rules but are interesting and dramaitc. Players who
>don't have any plot points, can still make use of the system by
>buying Payback Points. At the end of the session, players "in the
>hole" have dice rolled by the GM based on the number of Payback
>Points they have accumulated. The result is compared to a chart,
>which Greg Smith has greatly expaned, and I will post on my Web Page
>if people are interested. This chart has a list of disadvantages, or
>other fun complications which then affect the character like:
>
>Embarrassing photo and outrageous lie is published in a tabloid about
>the PC
>PC obviously has gained or lost 9+ 1d6 pounds
>PC suffers a week of insomnia (-10 END until he or she gets a good
>nights sleep).
And while you're at it, you may wish to look at the earlier source for this,
the "Bimbo Points" system used by the _Superbabes_ roleplaying game. (Good
idea, bad name ...). IMO, it works best if the GM tailors the chart to fit
his own campaign (for example, the second result above is primarily
appropriate to very silly or very un-epic campaigns).
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:06:52 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ICE supplements?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
<< Other than Robot Gladiators, it's the only book I'm really missing out on.
>>
We have it (RG).
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from calicajun@prtcl.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
X-Sender: calicajun@smtp.prtcl.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:46:58 -0700
To: champ-l@omg.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Eric Chauvin <calicajun@prtcl.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
David Stallar wrote:
>Some people might think this is goofy, but I'd really like to see more of
>those cardboard character "miniatures" that came with the 4E GM's screen.
>Not only are there not enough of them, but they look pretty dated (no more
>bellbottom pants, please!). I don't know if there's any need for a 5E GM's
>screen that could include these, but my group finds them very useful seeing
>that "real" superhero miniatures are virtually impossible to find (I know
>Hero made some a long time ago, but they're all gone as far as I know).
I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
files to the Hero E-mail list.
If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
____________________________
GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
---------------------------------------------
Eric Chauvin
calicajun@prtcl.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp.prtcl.com from calicajun@prtcl.com server @smtp.prtcl.com ip 205.158.46.3
X-Sender: calicajun@smtp.prtcl.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:46:58 -0700
To: champ-l@omg.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Eric Chauvin <calicajun@prtcl.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
David Stallar wrote:
>Some people might think this is goofy, but I'd really like to see more of
>those cardboard character "miniatures" that came with the 4E GM's screen.
>Not only are there not enough of them, but they look pretty dated (no more
>bellbottom pants, please!). I don't know if there's any need for a 5E GM's
>screen that could include these, but my group finds them very useful seeing
>that "real" superhero miniatures are virtually impossible to find (I know
>Hero made some a long time ago, but they're all gone as far as I know).
I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
files to the Hero E-mail list.
If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
____________________________
GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
---------------------------------------------
Eric Chauvin
calicajun@prtcl.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.1.64
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 01:26:01 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Organization: None
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Supplement reviews?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 03:57 PM 4/7/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
> >Could someone post a brief review of the Allies book? It sounds
> >interesting, but it seems like it would be a lesser used book in my
> >collection, since I don't think I would want to crowd the universe with NPC
> >heroes that could steal the spotlight from the PC group.
>
> That problem is nicely worked around; most of the groups and heroes in
> there have hooks that could bring them into directly conflict with PCs. In
> fact, there's only one group in there that would probably steal the
> spotlight from the PCs, and that's their conflict hook (the Flashmen like
> to take more public credit than they're due, and they're very good at it too).
> There's also Executive Sanction, a low-powered group of Feds; the Posse,
> a bunch of killer vigilantes; the Braverman Foundation, a literal circus
> full of bricks; Zen Team, a corporate-owned sentai; the Redeemed, a bunch
> of ex-supervillains trying to go straight; and the Cyberknights, a more
> classic, if decidedly high-tech, group of heroes. Solo heroes cover a wide
> range from the comedic to the horrific, and even a couple with political
> overtones.
> On the whole, it's a very well-planned and well-organized book with a
> lot more in the way of story hooks than one would expect from a volume of
> superheroes. And most of the groups (Executive Sanction, Zen Team, the
> Redeemed, and the Cyberknights) are potentially good resources for heroes,
> too.
>
> >I'd also appreciate the same for the High-Tech Enemies book and the Mutant
> >File book, if anyone has the time and inclination. I've pretty much
> >decided that these are on the "must have" list, but I'd still like to hear
> >about 'em.
>
> High-Tech Enemies is a very good book (I'd call it just short of
> "excellent") for any GM who wants to run a lot of high-tech adventures; if
> you can use Corporations and Allies as companion books (the latter for the
> Cyberknights), you can even fun an all-out high-tech superhero campaign.
> Its only real weaknesses are the somewhat inflated power levels of the
> villains, and the lack of real story hooks.
> The Mutant File is arguably overpowered for most campaigns, particularly
> the updating of Genocide. (In Sean Fannon's defense, much of the "power
> inflation" in this book was reportedly mandated by the Hero Guys, though
> some of it may have been an overreaction to said mandate.) The actual
> mutants in this book, though, are either lower-powered or meant to be used
> in smaller groups; this makes it much easier for lower-powered PCs.
>
> >Do any of these books offer explicit adventure ideas (as opposed to hinting
> >at them in character backgrounds), or are they straight character writeups
> >similar to Classic Enemies?
>
> You get a little of each. There's a good number of good story hooks in
> both Allies and The Mutant File, and all three books have one or two short
> adventure write-ups in the back. (Allies also has a page and a half of
> quick one-paragraph suggestions.)
>
> >I'm just going through the out-of-print-but-still-available stuff to see
> >what I don't want to slip by, so I might ask for a few other "book reviews"
> >later....
>
> Go ahead. I own everything from the BBB through Watchers of the Dragon,
> so just ask away.
> And, of course, others will have differing opinions.
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
I have at one time (and sometimes twice owned everything except invasion from
below and wings of the valkyrie....
By the by Bob, where are you based?
Just wondering
Chad
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:35:51 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Wings of the Valkries
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
Wings is the only Hero book I don't have, I have been told I saw a copy once
:-)
does any one have a copy that they might want to part with?
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo relia.net from mhoram@relia.net server @saturn.relia.net ip 207.173.156.8
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:48:26 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
Michael Nunn wrote:
>
> Wings is the only Hero book I don't have, I have been told I saw a copy once
> :-)
> does any one have a copy that they might want to part with?
>
> Michael
>
REsponding privately because this is illeagle (formally) but not really
bad...
I'd be willing to photocopy my copy for the price of the copy and the
mailing, if it is the information you are looking for rather than the
owning of the adventure.
--
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and
goes through their pockets. -- Eddy Peters
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo relia.net from mhoram@relia.net server @saturn.relia.net ip 207.173.156.8
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:53:06 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Forgot to look at the reply to line....
As Mhoram dancing aroung the fire naked with egg on his face to burn the
shame and embaressment from his soul....
--
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and
goes through their pockets. -- Eddy Peters
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shore.intercom.net from theala@shore.intercom.net server @shore.intercom.net ip 204.183.208.11
Comments: Authenticated sender is <theala@shore.intercom.net>
From: "Theala Sildorian" <theala@shore.intercom.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:04:47 +0000
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I have been playing with the idea of something like this for a long
> time. I am a fan of the games where you can use Karma points or
> experience to change a die roll.
I suggest you look at the plot points system proposed by Sean Fannon.
Essentially, it allows players to earn "plot points" which may be
used to pay for unusual special effects at critical moments in the
game, such as re rolling bad die rolls, or using Powers in ways which
severly bend the rules but are interesting and dramaitc. Players who
don't have any plot points, can still make use of the system by
buying Payback Points. At the end of the session, players "in the
hole" have dice rolled by the GM based on the number of Payback
Points they have accumulated. The result is compared to a chart,
which Greg Smith has greatly expaned, and I will post on my Web Page
if people are interested. This chart has a list of disadvantages, or
other fun complications which then affect the character like:
Embarrassing photo and outrageous lie is published in a tabloid about
the PC
PC obviously has gained or lost 9+ 1d6 pounds
PC suffers a week of insomnia (-10 END until he or she gets a good
nights sleep).
This isn't quite Karma, but it allows for a better use of Luck and
Unluck in that both are rolled at the beginning of the session and
the BODY of the dice become either Plot Points or Payback Points.
It's an interesting system, well worth a look. If you want a quick
look at the system, hit
http://www.io.com/~wileyc/champ/plotpoints.html. I'll try to get the
revised tables posted on my Web Page sometime in the next day or so,
if I can get my durned scanner working again <sigh>
Amy
----------------
Theala Sildorian
http://www.intercom.net/user/theala/hero.html
Home of the Unofficial Champions Home Page!
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 07:02:07 -0500
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that hitting
Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I may
not be the only one this is happening to.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 05:28:50 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:17 PM 4/7/1998 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> > Besides, this is about the best way I've seen to represent the MiB
>> >Memory Eraser without it costing way too much for the effectiveness.
>>
>> You mean, the neuralizer a.k.a. flasher-thingie? :-]
>
> Um, yeah. I just didn't want to say any term that might be
>copywrited. Yeah, that's it!
Aw heck, this is a discussion list. We can even mention Sherlock Holmes
or "That Other Game" if we want to. (I just avoid mentioned the name of
that fantasy game that used to come in a three-volume set and whose
publisher was recently bought up by a collectible card game maker because
profanity cheapens the speaker.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:28:51 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
----------
> From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Hero Universe
> Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 3:47 PM
>
> I think it's a mistake to try to make all these genre's exist in the
> same world and timeline. This is like a multigenre RPG on drugs.
>
> If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
> world would be considered publishable. This knocks out huge chunks of
> the fantasy genre.
> It's a mistake to try to standardize it all this way. It would be like
> trying to put Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, James Bond, Xena, a book on
> the history of Egypt, and a Humphrey Bogart movie all together.
>
> Some of these things don't mix. Their best left exclusive of each
> other. Genre is about a lot more than when. It's about paradigms of how
> reality works. Even that is only the beginning.
>
Not always. Thinking of genre in such a structuralist manner only restricts
the nature of setting-
that is a specific storyline within the genre. It might sound nice, but
it's more fun to leave it
open, especially since any such cmbination which suceeded would be a
*classic*- just look at
OTE and the the suprisingly unrecognised NEXUS for examples of how fun this
can be, and not
just becasue you get to sit around pointing out the genre-synthesis.
When genre combines it creates a new entity- different, but still valid,
and more original than
an operationalised perspective of a conventional genre.
In a few weeks i'll be launching a humble little page based
around Core Alpha, an organisation which not only crosses genre- but
game formats as well. I'll be doing up the character bios in HERO format
and most likely doing a PBEM as well, so odds are you lot will hear
some wierd quesitons about genre concepts. . oh, and blowing stuff up, too.
> --
> Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
> __
> /.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
> \(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
> Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 05:42:41 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:17 AM 4/8/1998 -0400, Jeff M. Reid wrote:
>The one time this came up in my campaign (when the PC's wanted to erase the
>knowledge of one of their member's Secret ID from the mind of a villain to
>whom she had inadvertently revealed it), I used the old Mental Paralysis
>power as a model -- 15 pts per 1d6, 1 DEF per 30 points. The user of the
>power states what memory (or memories) he would like to block, anything
>from a single fact (like a PC's Secret ID) to total amnesia. After the
>attack roll was made and the effect rolled, the target got one initial
>attempt to break out. Thereafter, the target got another roll anytime
>something happened that served to jog his memory -- the more sweeping the
>memory loss, the more often something would happen that would cause the
>character to try to break the effect, and in the case of total amnesia, the
>character obviously got to roll every phase (or until he ran out of END!).
>Skills could not be erased via this power, although the memory of having
>such skills might be ("How did you do that?" "I don't know...")
Now, *that's* an interesting way of modelling it. It certainly offers a
different dynamic than any of the other constructs (Telepathy, Mind
Control, Transform, or Dispel).
>Even though Mental Paralysis has gone the way of Piercing Points and Power
>Destruction, I think the general model still holds up well... although I'm
>sure many will disagree :-).
Mental Paralysis came back in TUM, though it's now built by adding three
Advantages (BOECV and two special constructs) to Entangle for a total
Advantage value of +1 3/4. The two "specials" are "Transparent to Physical
Attacks" (a form borrowed from Force Wall; the thing is vulnerable only to
Ego Attacks and BOECV attack powers, taking BODY even if the Power in
question doesn't normally do BODY damage) for +1/4, and "Works Against EGO,
Not STR" for +1/2.
Personally, I prefer a flat +2 "Mental Paralysis" Advantage. It's
smoother mathematically, and can take into account such things as
invisibile power effects, Mental Awareness, and so forth. Just stuffing
these things into a package like this makes it nice and neat, and easy to
use.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pilot003.cl.msu.edu from korthmat@pilot003.cl.msu.edu server @pilot003.cl.msu.edu ip 35.9.5.103
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:47:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew James Korth" <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
>What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that hitting
>Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
>back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I may
>not be the only one this is happening to.
Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
Anyone remember what happened when someone left the list without (a) telling
Geoff and (b) unsubscribing, when Bob Quinlan had Red October's echo of the
list setting Reply-To:? That wonderful mail loop?
Please, *remove* that header.
--M
--
korthmat@pilot.msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~korthmat
Charter Member of the Complaining Censorious Bastards Club
(this means I'll report any UCE I receive to the sender's ISP)
Member of the USENET Cabal (TINC!), BOFH-in-training
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 06:07:59 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement reviews?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:26 AM 4/8/1998 -0700, Chad Riley wrote:
>> Go ahead. I own everything from the BBB through Watchers of the Dragon,
>> so just ask away.
>> And, of course, others will have differing opinions.
>
>I have at one time (and sometimes twice owned everything except invasion from
>below and wings of the valkyrie....
>By the by Bob, where are you based?
>
>Just wondering
Corvallis, Oregon (just a Quick Trip from Chris Taylor's place in Salem).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:13:13 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I recently purchased a copy from a store in S. Carolina that claims
to have several in stock, hidden in back; to be sold on request only.
While I don't want to give out their name, I will suggest this:
put up a WTB add in rec.games.frp.marketplace for all the hero stuff you
want.
I bought Lands of Mystery through them at the same time.
>
> Wings is the only Hero book I don't have, I have been told I saw a copy once
> :-)
> does any one have a copy that they might want to part with?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 06:18:13 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:47 PM 4/7/1998 -0700, Rook wrote:
>I think it's a mistake to try to make all these genre's exist in the
>same world and timeline. This is like a multigenre RPG on drugs.
>
> If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
>world would be considered publishable. This knocks out huge chunks of
>the fantasy genre.
No, I think you're misunderstanding. There's already a Fuzion-based
fantasy setting in the works that doesn't fit into the Hero Universe; Sean
Fannon's Shaintar campaign book is well under way. All the timeline does
is show what fantasy, science fiction, and other settings can be considered
a part of the Hero Universe, meaning that events in one can affect events
in another.
For example, Atlantean Age heroes are in rebellion against Sharna-Gorak
the Destroyer; this same character, now known as Doctor Destroyer, is a
problem for New Millenium heroes as well (at least, if memory serves that
this is the same guy; I do not yet own the book). Sharna-Gorak could also
be a problem for PCs in the Age of Heroes, and could experience a
resurgence in the period of the Galactic Champions to become an ongoing
menace thereafter.
Likewise, Mechanon could become dormant by the end of the New Millennium
period (or, at the latest, the end of the "Cyber Hero" period), only to be
reactivated in time for the Galactic Champions -- or, Mechanon could turn
out to be the Emperor in the Foundation of Empire period.
The bugs from the Alien Wars period could have a resurgence during the
Interstellar Dark Ages, and likewise pose a problem for the Galactic
Champions and even return in the period of Sorcerer's Galaxy.
> It's a mistake to try to standardize it all this way. It would be like
>trying to put Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, James Bond, Xena, a book on
>the history of Egypt, and a Humphrey Bogart movie all together.
Such a project might have actually worked, had Tolkien, Lucas, Fleming,
Raimi, the author of the Egyptian novel (it would have to be a novel, since
we're not role-playing historical fact here), and the producer of the
Bogart movie all worked to make it fit from the beginning.
> Some of these things don't mix. Their best left exclusive of each
>other. Genre is about a lot more than when. It's about paradigms of how
>reality works. Even that is only the beginning.
Have you actually taken a look at the timeline, and the nature of the
Hero Universe? "How reality works" actually shifts over time, with a
reasonably plausible explanation of how. (However, it probably would have
been helpful to include that explanation, including a paragraph on the
nature of Gate Keys, in the Hero Universe write-up.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:18:43 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that hitting
> >Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
> >back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I may
> >not be the only one this is happening to.
>
> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
>
Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to people
privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 06:20:23 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:46 AM 4/8/1998 -0700, Eric Chauvin wrote:
>I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
>happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
>having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
>these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
>files to the Hero E-mail list.
>If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
>I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
Please don't send files to the list. It forces downloads on people that
don't want them (or, at least, weren't expecting them). Instead, offer to
email them directly to people who are interested, until you can get that
website in place.
I don't think I'd want to be among those receiving these via email, but
I'd be very interested in seeing what you can do on a website. (If the
Hero Guys don't mind, perhaps you could start with some of the more popular
Champions Universe villains, at least until they can get official ones out.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pilot003.cl.msu.edu from korthmat@pilot003.cl.msu.edu server @pilot003.cl.msu.edu ip 35.9.5.103
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:39:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew James Korth" <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>> >What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that hitting
>> >Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
>> >back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I may
>> >not be the only one this is happening to.
>>
>> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
>> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
>>
> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
>name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to people
>privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
This is one of the few times I've ever agreed with Rat about anything.
It's convenient, yes. It's also a Bad Thing.
If someone forgets to unsubscribe before their account is removed, the
"no such user" bounces will not *necessarily* go to the list owner; not every
site honors the Errors-To: header. They'll most likely go to the list
instead. This has happened to the Hero List before.
It's also possible for someone to set up an autoresponder (i.e. the
vacation program on Unix machines) if they're going to be away for a while.
Unless they *specifically* configure the program *not* to reply to the
list, it will... for every list mail it gets.
Either way, you wind up not only with the Hero List mail, you wind up with
the autoresponses (or bounces), and the autoresponses to the autoresponses,
and the autoresponses to the autoresponses to the... you get the point.
I'd rather not have this happen again with the Hero list running around 75
messages a day...
--M
--
korthmat@pilot.msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~korthmat
Charter Member of the Complaining Censorious Bastards Club
(this means I'll report any UCE I receive to the sender's ISP)
Member of the USENET Cabal (TINC!), BOFH-in-training
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: HERO Dream Park
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:42:39 +0200
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I was wondering if anyone has run a Dream Park game using the
HERO system. If so, I would like to hear about it; how it went,
pluses/minuses, difficulties, etc.
I am thinking about trying to run a game in this setting and think
HERO rules might work well for this. So any enlightenment and/or
material anyone might have could save me some from reworking
tilled soil (so to speak).
-Roger
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:44:03 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Organization: Red Bow Antiques
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Lizard wrote:
>
> At 01:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Miq Millman wrote:
> >Just an early birthday greeting, here.
> >How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
> >Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
> Misdirected mail. Gotta love it.
Actually, I am wondering who Zoe is and if they set a date or not.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:01:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I think it's a mistake to try to make all these genre's exist in the
> same world and timeline. This is like a multigenre RPG on drugs.
I had similar thoughts.
> If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
> world would be considered publishable. This knocks out huge chunks of
> the fantasy genre.
Right. Even with the various "apocolypses", that doesn't leave
much room for the huge variety of potential campaign worlds. Or movement
beteen universes unless one considers merely time travel.
And, come to think about it, time travel stories can be seriously
messed up. If someone goes back to the stone age, or further back into
pre-human times, they will be in for some huge shocks. I rather like a
lot of the real-world prehistory that has been obsoleted.
> It's a mistake to try to standardize it all this way. It would be like
> trying to put Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, James Bond, Xena, a book on
> the history of Egypt, and a Humphrey Bogart movie all together.
Well, some things can work together, and work together well.
There's no reason a Mythic Greece (Xena), Humphry Bogart (Justice, Inc),
James Bond (Espionage?) and an Egyptian campaign (new suppliment) can't
work together. Mixing in the various other wars and historical settings
along with a low-key fantasy setting even works rather well.
It's also not hard to accept a future Cyberpunk line, though I'd
push it a few more years into the future than it currently is. The Space
Stories afterward are good, though they leave a lot of room in between
while still seeming to needlessly tie down any future-set campaign.
> Some of these things don't mix. Their best left exclusive of each
> other. Genre is about a lot more than when. It's about paradigms of how
> reality works. Even that is only the beginning.
If you look at my list of what works together, it all assumes a
potential world much like our own -- just a little more heroic.
Some of the High Fantasy would work much better in alternate
(still set) Universes and Timelines.
Actually, didn't FASA put together its three major products?
Wasn't Earthdawn on the same world as Shadowrun, the latter being a
re-awakening of the magic of the former. And wasn't Battletech just 1000
or so years after Shadowrun?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Reply = champ-l@sysabend.org
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---Matthew James Korth wrote:
>
> >What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that
hitting
> >Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my
response
> >back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think
I may
> >not be the only one this is happening to.
>
> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To:
to the
> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail
filter again.
>
> Anyone remember what happened when someone left the list without (a)
telling
> Geoff and (b) unsubscribing, when Bob Quinlan had Red October's echo
of the
> list setting Reply-To:? That wonderful mail loop?
>
> Please, *remove* that header.
Since changing the listserver to put the list address into the
reply-to field there have been (like there was before doing so)
several email adresses that "died". It happenes continuously. I
average about 100 bounced messages a day. How many have actually fed
back to the list?
Be that as it may, I'll leave it up the list at large. Give me your
opinion. Let me know (via either champ-l-owner@sysabend.org or
john.desmarais@ibm.net - let's not bog the list down with it) whether
you want the sender's name in the reply-to field or the list address.
I'll change things accordingly once I've gotten enough opinions to
form a concensus.
-=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1a.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1a.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.22
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:08:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---"Tim R. Gilberg" wrote:
>
> Actually, didn't FASA put together its three major products?
> Wasn't Earthdawn on the same world as Shadowrun, the latter being a
> re-awakening of the magic of the former. And wasn't Battletech just
1000
> or so years after Shadowrun?
>
I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
each, lots of duplicates).
-=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = champ-l@sysabend.org
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:29:01 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> Since changing the listserver to put the list address into the
> reply-to field there have been (like there was before doing so)
> several email adresses that "died". It happenes continuously. I
> average about 100 bounced messages a day. How many have actually fed
> back to the list?
>
None.
> Be that as it may, I'll leave it up the list at large. Give me your
> opinion. Let me know (via either champ-l-owner@sysabend.org or
> john.desmarais@ibm.net - let's not bog the list down with it) whether
> you want the sender's name in the reply-to field or the list address.
> I'll change things accordingly once I've gotten enough opinions to
> form a concensus.
I can't see why anyone would prefer the other method if the bounced
issue is not a problem.
I belong to several mailing lists, 3 of which are busier than this,
all of which do the reply to. Never had a problem once.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>
>
> > I think it's a mistake to try to make all these genre's exist in the
> > same world and timeline. This is like a multigenre RPG on drugs.
>
> > It's a mistake to try to standardize it all this way. It would be like
> > trying to put Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, James Bond, Xena, a book on
> > the history of Egypt, and a Humphrey Bogart movie all together.
>
> Well, some things can work together, and work together well.
> There's no reason a Mythic Greece (Xena), Humphry Bogart (Justice, Inc),
> James Bond (Espionage?) and an Egyptian campaign (new suppliment) can't
> work together. Mixing in the various other wars and historical settings
> along with a low-key fantasy setting even works rather well.
Actually, I think it would end up coming out like Xena.
Episode 1, PC' meet Hercules
2: they meet Ceasar
3: they witness Jesus' birth
4: they bump in Columbus
5: they battel Nazi's
6: They battle Aries
7: they try to kill a Chinese Emperor
All mixed up, no clue about what genre they should be in.
Work's on a fantasy version of Babe Watch on the tele, but I stopped
being able to play or GM in this setting after middle school. Around the
same time the minimum acceptable stat for a PC went below 18 in my group. :)
(And, yes, saying minimum was not a typo)
Multigenre on drugs. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:36:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On 7 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "S" == Sakura <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> S> Unfortunately (and this is what Bob is trying to fix, I think), said
> S> 'critical damage' system - and indeed, the HERO damage system in general
> S> - has very little to do with the skill of the attacker.
>
> Guess what? It is possible to hit someone in the head with a .44Mag and
> barely scratch him. Or the same weapon can kill him instantly with a head
> shot.
Yes,, very true. I never said otherwise.
> Which result actually happens has nothing to do with the skill of
> the attacker.
Here's where I disagree. I would argue that a person with higher skill
would be more likely to get the 'head splattered like an overripe melon'
result than someone who had just picked up the gun for the first time.
He's going to know how to aim, how to compensate for the 'kick' of the
gun, etc, and thus is more likely to score a dead-on hit than the novice.
Since HERO's 'to-hit' roll means 'did I hit at all', assuming both people
hit, they have equal chance of doing lousy damage or great damage. I
think that the skilled shooter will not only hit more often, but hit with
more effect, whereas in HERO, he will just hit more often.
The only thing that comes anywhere close to modeling this in HERO is the
ability to trade combat levels for damage (assuming your GM even lets you
do that for ranged combat) - but that has the problem of decreasing your
overall accuracy, since you have to assign them before you make the
attack.
Here's something I'm going to toss off of the top of my head, just to see
how unbalancing it is.
* For every 2 points you make your 'to hit' roll by, you do an extra DC of
damage.
This would basically be similar to the use of CSLs now, except that you
could 'trade them in' for damage /after/ the roll was made instead of
before.
Campaign limits would have to be adjusted - the base DC of a power would
need to be low compared to the base defenses. Probably, the average power
on an average roll should be completely blocked by the average defense.
Obviously, the idea needs more polish, but it does represent the fact that
characters with more skill are going to do more damage.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.mailsrvcs.net from ashock@gte.net server @smtp2.gte.net ip 207.115.153.31
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:49:43 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I recently purchased a copy from a store in S. Carolina that claims
>to have several in stock, hidden in back; to be sold on request only.
>
> While I don't want to give out their name, I will suggest this:
>
>put up a WTB add in rec.games.frp.marketplace for all the hero stuff you
>want.
> I bought Lands of Mystery through them at the same time.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS (as if everyone doesn't already know what Wings is
about...)
Y'know, that adventure got a really bad rap; I can't even begin to see how
people thought it was Anti-Semetic. Yes, the characters had to choose to
save Hitler order to keep history the way it's supposed to be. This is a
staple of time travel science fiction! When I ran that adventure, the
characters didn't let him get off unscathed though. One of the heroes, a Big
guy named Atlas, decked him just before the heroes left! I used this as the
historical justification for why Hitler spent so much time and money trying
to create his own supers, that he crippled the Nazi A-Bomb effort, thus
preventing them, with other factors of course, from winning the war. Believe
me, none of the heroes in the group were unaffected by the choice they had
to make. It was the first time ever that I saw actual ROLEPLAYING in the
group.
Allen Shock
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:57:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
> files to the Hero E-mail list.
> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
Yes! Something I can print out and even glue to poster board
would be great.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:02:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
> > list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
> >
> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to people
> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
Yes, but the point is it is a much less robust way of doing
things. Little problems become big ones very quickly.
As it, it isn't a problem to reply-to-all and delete the
non-wanted address(es). Heck, with pine, it's only a simple ^K command.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---Eric Chauvin wrote:
>
> David Stallar wrote:
>
> >Some people might think this is goofy, but I'd really like to see
more of
> >those cardboard character "miniatures" that came with the 4E GM's
screen.
> >Not only are there not enough of them, but they look pretty dated
(no more
> >bellbottom pants, please!). I don't know if there's any need for a
5E GM's
> >screen that could include these, but my group finds them very
useful seeing
> >that "real" superhero miniatures are virtually impossible to find
(I know
> >Hero made some a long time ago, but they're all gone as far as I
know).
>
> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I
would be
> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I
intend on
> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a
update of
> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I
can send
> files to the Hero E-mail list.
> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the
list. If
> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
A friend of mine down south has done the same thing (hundreds of
little .TIF files). He's expressed a willingnes to make them
available to the folks on the list, so I'm waiting for him to send
them to me so that I can post them up on my champions web site. I'll
drop a note on list when they're available.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:09:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Actually, didn't FASA put together its three major products?
> > Wasn't Earthdawn on the same world as Shadowrun, the latter being a
> > re-awakening of the magic of the former. And wasn't Battletech just
> 1000
> > or so years after Shadowrun?
> >
>
> I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
> of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
> Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
> each, lots of duplicates).
I don't know if Battletech was said or not, but the world would
fit just fine with the other two. Magic would just have receeded again.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:26:44 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>>How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
>>
>>Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
>>
>Misdirected mail. Gotta love it.
The ironic thing is that I know a Zoie and wouldnt mind setting a date with
her LOL
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>>> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
>>> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
>> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
>> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to people
>> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
>
> As it, it isn't a problem to reply-to-all and delete the
> non-wanted address(es). Heck, with pine, it's only a simple ^K command.
>
No such function here. I have to write it in manually from memory
every time on the old method. Version of elm we've got here has no reply to all
that I've as yet found.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I have been playing with the idea of something like this for a long
> > time. I am a fan of the games where you can use Karma points or
> > experience to change a die roll.
>
> I suggest you look at the plot points system proposed by Sean Fannon.
>
> It's an interesting system, well worth a look. If you want a quick
> look at the system, hit
> http://www.io.com/~wileyc/champ/plotpoints.html. I'll try to get the
I'll have to take a look soon.
My own new Karma rules, using luck/unluck, are at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/stryfe/FH/magic.html
as a subset of my magic rules for FH when used in my world...
It's all just been typed out of my head for the first time in
the 15 years I've had that world...
So it's a bit brief and as yet lacking refinement. But the
essense is there.
Rook ?U ?k 1b 'no giga pets were harmed in the production of this message'.
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Roleplay
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---Brian Wong wrote:
>
> >>> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set
Reply-To: to the
> >>> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail
filter again.
> >> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the
list's
> >> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I
send to people
> >> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other
way.
> >
> > As it, it isn't a problem to reply-to-all and delete the
> > non-wanted address(es). Heck, with pine, it's only a simple ^K
command.
> >
> No such function here. I have to write it in manually from memory
> every time on the old method. Version of elm we've got here has no
reply to all
> that I've as yet found.
>
It's been many years since I used elm, but I think elm refers to it as
a g)roup reply. You'll find this option in the alternate menu (the
one for "advanced users").
It looks something like this:
|=pipe, !=shell, ?=help, <n>=set current to n, /=search pattern
a)lias, C)copy, c)hange folder, d)elete, e)dit, f)orward, g)roup
reply, m)ail,
n)ext, o)ptions, p)rint, r)eply, s)ave, t)ag, q)uit, u)ndelete, or
e(x)it
-=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:56:15 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/7/98 10:53:36 PM, you wrote:
<< If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
world would be considered publishable. This knocks out huge chunks of
the fantasy genre.>>
No, you did not understand it correctly at all; I'm sorry that was not made
clear. In fact, we're publishing Broken Kingdoms as our very next product, and
it has nothing to do with the Hero Universe. And we are eagerly looking for
other campaign settings.
The point of the Hero Universe is that we can have *a* unified setting, which
makes time travel easier to handle, and gives some added impetus to historical
genres that might otherwise have a very limited audience.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo owlnet.rice.edu from chip@owlnet.rice.edu server @owlnet.rice.edu ip 128.42.49.7
X-Authentication-Warning: snowy.owlnet.rice.edu: chip owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Brian Wong wrote:
> > >What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that hitting
> > >Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
> > >back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I may
> > >not be the only one this is happening to.
> >
> > Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to the
> > list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter again.
> >
> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to people
> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
I agree with Rook. This message, for once, doesn't have me having to
annoyingly reset headers to send to the list.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Transformation Attacks (5ED)?
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob Greenwade writes:
> I took a while to peruse this, and I think it look quite interesting.
> Certainly there's a lot of thought given to quantifying how Transform
> works. Other than organizing the bonuses a little more neatly, the only
> thing I'd recommend is having the effects go against BODY rather than CON.
> There's a strong history for using BODY for Transforms, and it makes it
> easier to apply logically to machines and inanimate objects, which have
> BODY but not CON.
Unfortunately (though arguably this is the fault of character designers) a lot
of characters have quite low body -- effects like transform _should_ be more
effective against minor characters than against important characters, and
directing the power against CON has that effect, since most major characters
are built on 18+ CON. Then again, I don't much like characters with 10 EGO
either. I suppose I could do transform with 'breakout' rolls based on CON
instead.
Incidentally, what should the 'natural' duration of a transform be?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 10:10:32 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 08:29 AM 4/8/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>>>> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to
the
>>>> list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter
again.
>>> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
>>> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to
people
>>> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
>>
>> As it, it isn't a problem to reply-to-all and delete the
>> non-wanted address(es). Heck, with pine, it's only a simple ^K command.
>>
> No such function here. I have to write it in manually from memory
>every time on the old method. Version of elm we've got here has no reply
to all
>that I've as yet found.
Does your system have a POP server? If so, and if you're using Windows
or Mac, you could probably try using Eudora Lite....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:55:31 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
TRG> Yeah. A little less than .5% of the time, for me.
Tell that to the corpse.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSu6DJ6VRH7BJMxHAQGfXwQAvr7x+lgo3dlwsRkPTBjP47oDCtYWibjj
XJUsdlMQiD8cmmkB73a/vlJ6+63SI0CjoOd9Qv66j/aQTVZa+OYQS4v80Hlu7Mr/
kx1vDvrZyCpox30fD6RfVgIBPElMMbhyFJXvskiOj1qFi46OHoDh0jhcw4LqPqqo
fTkCvyioHhQ=
=d3GN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:20:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Er, you misunderstood.
> > Well, some things can work together, and work together well.
> > There's no reason a Mythic Greece (Xena), Humphry Bogart (Justice, Inc),
> > James Bond (Espionage?) and an Egyptian campaign (new suppliment) can't
> > work together. Mixing in the various other wars and historical settings
> > along with a low-key fantasy setting even works rather well.
>
> Actually, I think it would end up coming out like Xena.
> Episode 1, PC' meet Hercules
> 2: they meet Ceasar
> 3: they witness Jesus' birth
> 4: they bump in Columbus
> 5: they battel Nazi's
> 6: They battle Aries
> 7: they try to kill a Chinese Emperor
>
> All mixed up, no clue about what genre they should be in.
> Work's on a fantasy version of Babe Watch on the tele, but I stopped
> being able to play or GM in this setting after middle school. Around the
> same time the minimum acceptable stat for a PC went below 18 in my group. :)
> (And, yes, saying minimum was not a typo)
>
> Multigenre on drugs. :)
I mean that the above that I listed could easily take part in the
same campaign world merely separated by time. Mixing in the far past and
far future stuff like the New Millenium Universe does is a bit
schitzophrenic.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Hero Universe
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:22:47 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
How about Joan of Arc's era (100 years war).
How much would "Contact: God" cost? ^_^
Actually, she talked to saints.
This would need mass combat rules,
divine intervention rules (the GM :), etc.
I've always wanted to run her as a PC or NPC.
Rewrite history, have her live, become Empress
of France (by God's command, she wouldn't want to), etc.
Interesting possibilities!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:24:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> No such function here. I have to write it in manually from memory
> every time on the old method. Version of elm we've got here has no reply to all
> that I've as yet found.
Well, that's probably why we have pine here. (PINE=Pine Is Not
Elm, btw). I'm given the option as soon as I hit the reply command. Do
you at least have aliases?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:29:35 -0400
Lines: 36
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "S" == Sakura <jeffj@io.com> writes:
S> Here's where I disagree. I would argue that a person with higher skill
S> would be more likely to get the 'head splattered like an overripe melon'
S> result than someone who had just picked up the gun for the first time.
S> He's going to know how to aim, how to compensate for the 'kick' of the
S> gun, etc, and thus is more likely to score a dead-on hit than the novice.
The practiced shooter will have appropriate weapon familiarities, the
novice will not and will suffer significant OCV penalties. The practiced
shooter will be able to hit what he is aiming at more frequently than the
novice: combat skill levels to increase OCV, offsetting OCV penalties for
called shots. If you want a particularly lethal game, OCV skill levels may
be exchanged for increasing the damage done by the attack -- again, the
practiced shooter will be able to afford to do it.
Hero is already a disturbingly accurate model of reality; there is no need
to make it any more "realistic", especially if it adds more dice rolling
and slows things down.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSvCDp6VRH7BJMxHAQHcoAQAkzu6GqG3S/o0/avrcOo3gvY+lquLES/0
vsJJxzKi8pIOLqg0y+uU7hgdiG0bOFX7BcbQmH66zg+TOSyFF6o+3e2OZVRcezIZ
WZzoLlEMRHQGc8N1P73jSqTfAt2EXKF+ztfAN9WkZpoezrQiHZ6iNreTCuZEEFfS
TP2mpVmOCII=
=7Ri5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:32:21 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> If they are not important, why do they have a point cost?
TRG> For purposes of completeness. These are unimportant mental data
TRG> packets, but they exist and can be affected like any other.
Things with point costs can be bought with character points and sold for
character points. Except for these unimportant memories which have a point
cost but cannot be bought with or sold for character points.
Excuse me if I cannot see anything complete or consistant about the idea.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSvCs56VRH7BJMxHAQH7ZQQAvmblc530xVkUTmV3fuQ6GyTg5KhkNY1w
d5OmunmQtuoSlSpRnWZwFw8xnEyyST6ABqNKqq/i3x6EzcJglESY35pXMZ43SmHS
kJw53XzR7vX0e0ZtNj8opNrvfgp5FoAQrR0imyyvdspJK1KDL52GAWRToXUenk4k
oIcVopOY0do=
=NtKs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:33:42 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:47 AM 4/8/1998 -0500, Darien Phoenix Lynx wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Brian Wong wrote:
>
>> > >What's happened here? In the last couple of days I've noticed that
hitting
>> > >Reply, which used to create an off-list response, now sends my response
>> > >back to the list. From what I've seen in the list traffic, I think I
may
>> > >not be the only one this is happening to.
>> >
>> > Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to
the
>> > list. Looks like it's time to pull out the Reply-To: procmail filter
again.
>> >
>> Personally I think it' great. Having to manually type in the list's
>> name on every message was a major pain. The amount of stuff I send to
people
>> privately from this list is trivial, and it was a waste the other way.
>
>I agree with Rook. This message, for once, doesn't have me having to
>annoyingly reset headers to send to the list.
I say we leave it as is (now that we all know it's there -- most of the
confusion happened because it was just done without announcement, and
nobody really payed attention to the "Reply-To" Header), and only change it
back when an actual problem surfaces.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:38:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >> I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
>
> TRG> Yeah. A little less than .5% of the time, for me.
>
> Tell that to the corpse.
Well, I don't think he'll hear me, but . . .
"Mr. Corpse? A critical hit is rolled a little less than .5% of
the time."
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:41:55 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Here's something I pondered a while back at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/haym15l.html.
Mind Stealing
In The Ultimate Mentalist, a method is presented for switching minds
(the same method that I presented back in Haymaker #5!). But how can
minds be stolen?
Example: Mind Thief steals Defender's mind. Now Defender doesn't know
who he is, or why he's in a power suit. Mind Thief now knows everything
that Defender did, including how to operate the suit, his secret ID, his
engineering skills, his first girlfriend, everything.
Here's my attempt:
- Mind Control or Mental Illusions (single command -- "You know
nothing."), or Transform into an Amnesiac
- Transfer versus INT, EGO, and all skills
- Mind Link versus single target
- Read-only Telepathy, perhaps Autofire
Is it legal to transfer skills that the transferring character does not
possess himself?
The Autofire on Telepathy would allow up to five facts to be read per
phase, not just one. Does this sound reasonable?
Can Area Effect Mind Control or Autofire Mind Control be used to send
different commands to each of its targets? What if it had the Variable
Special Effects advantage, with the varying effects being varying
commands?
Which is more appropriate to wipe a target's mind -- mind control or
mental illusions?
Dave Mattingly
mattingly@bigfoot.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Joe Mucchiello" <why@superlink.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 98 18:43:10
Subject: Re: One Use Luck
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:42:04 -0400 (EDT), Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), Brian Wong wrote:
>>
>> >Hello;
>> >
>> > I'm considering a construct in Fantasy Hero for luck deemed
>> >as Karma. This would be a dice of luck which is usable only once.
>> >
>> > Gained either through actions or prayer.
>> >In the prayer method it would basically be a sacrifice or EP's for the luck.
>> >
>> > What I;m working on now is a cost for this.
>> >
>> >How much seems fair for a one use dice of luck?
>>
>> 1d6 Luck (5 AP): One Charge (-2), Charge Does Not Recover (-2)
>>
>> 1 CP
>
>But that doesn't mean you'll get a 6 on the die roll. :-)
Agreed, but then that wasn't answering that part of the original post
>Try, Favor, GM, 14-. (Like 10 points considering the power level of a
>GM? :-)
:}
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-5.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.135
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:53:44 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA17327
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org
>I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
each, lots of duplicates).<
I just came off of a long Earthdawn campaign to start Champions again, so I
guess I have a little bit of authority on the subject. Yes, Earthdawn and
Shadowrun are based in the same world...Earthdawn is a long, long time ago
(I forget the dates), and Shadowrun is in the near future. Here's how it
works: Magic ebbs and flows in the world, from a maximum where magic is
everyday, to a minimum where it doesn't exist at all. Earthdawn takes
place just as the magic cycle is starting to come down from a high.
Shadowrun takes place just as the magic cycle is coming up from a low.
Battletech is not in this same universe, as far as I know.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:54:13 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:38 PM 4/8/1998 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> >> I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
>>
>> TRG> Yeah. A little less than .5% of the time, for me.
>>
>> Tell that to the corpse.
>
> Well, I don't think he'll hear me, but . . .
>
> "Mr. Corpse? A critical hit is rolled a little less than .5% of
>the time."
"Just think of it, sir! Your death saved 215 lives!"
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:16:38 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: SMTP%"champ-l@sysabend.org" 8-APR-1998 14:50:33.97
To: BSVITAVSKY
CC:
Subj: Re: Critical Hits
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980408092206.21578A-100000@dillinger.io.com>
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:29:35 -0400
In-Reply-To: Sakura's message of "Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:36:59 -0500 (CDT)"
Message-ID: <x7k990kvzk.fsf@peorth.gweep.net>
Lines: 36
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 19.34
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>>>>> "S" == Sakura <jeffj@io.com> writes:
S> Here's where I disagree. I would argue that a person with higher skill
S> would be more likely to get the 'head splattered like an overripe melon'
S> result than someone who had just picked up the gun for the first time.
S> He's going to know how to aim, how to compensate for the 'kick' of the
S> gun, etc, and thus is more likely to score a dead-on hit than the novice.
It seems to me that in this discussion so far everyone has been
assuming the optimum shot does more damage. Very often in superhero
games this is not the case, and the way I handle critical hits with
this in mind.
I generally interpret a roll of 3 as an attack that has gone
perfectly, doing the best that the attacker could realistically
hope it might do. If a brick hits a relatively normal person,
doing maximum damage might be disastrous - chances are the brick
was more interested in moderating his strength than in inflicting
the most harm.
Rather than trying to create a system to account for all the
possible hopes an attacker might have for an attack, I handle
things on a per case, GM's call basis. This might mean doing
maximum damage, but it might also mean angling the knockback
just perfectly, executing the attack with flash and style
(thus getting a PRE attack bonus), knocking out the thief
without damaging the Ming vase in his hands, etc.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Wings of the Valkries
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:23:55 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
OK, Puma give, just WHAT this supplement about?
Never heard of/saw it! Do like Valkries though! ^_^
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:41:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On 8 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
Rat, did you even read my message? I dealt with all of these points,
because I knew they were the ones you were going to bring up.
> The practiced shooter will have appropriate weapon familiarities, the
> novice will not and will suffer significant OCV penalties. The practiced
> shooter will be able to hit what he is aiming at more frequently than the
> novice: combat skill levels to increase OCV, offsetting OCV penalties for
> called shots.
>From my previous message (emphasis added):
S> Since HERO's 'to-hit' roll means 'did I hit at all', assuming both
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
S> people hit, they have equal chance of doing lousy damage or great
^^^^^^^^^^
S> damage.
Now, the shooter with more CSLs will be able to do more damage at the same
level of accuracy, yes, which is I think what you are trying to say.
Let's take two guys - one relative novice (WF: Rifle) and one experienced
sharpshooter (some CSLs - however many it'd take to hit the vitals at no
penalty).
If they both just 'fire at some guy' and they both hit, they both do the
same amount of damage. The experienced shooter is more likely to hit,
though.
If the novice just 'fires at the guy' and the experienced shooter aims for
the vitals, the experienced sharpshooter has the same chance to hit as the
novice, but will do more damage if he does. This is the thing that seems
wrong to me. The sharpshooter is aiming dead center at his heart, but if
he misses his roll, he misses the guy entirely? In a more realistic
situation, it wouldn't be all-or-nothing - either he'd hit the vitals, or
he'd hit the guy in the chest, or he'd miss.
The same applies for putting CSLs into damage.
> If you want a particularly lethal game, OCV skill levels may
> be exchanged for increasing the damage done by the attack -- again, the
> practiced shooter will be able to afford to do it.
>From my previous message:
S> The only thing that comes anywhere close to modeling this in HERO is
S> the ability to trade combat levels for damage (assuming your GM even
S> lets you do that for ranged combat) - but that has the problem of
S> decreasing your overall accuracy, since you have to assign them before
S> you make the attack.
Translation: If you're aiming for a point that's going to let you do more
damage, you're more likely to miss overall. See above.
> Hero is already a disturbingly accurate model of reality;
I have nothing to say to this. You must live in a very interesting world.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo id.sedl.org from tsang@id.sedl.org server tsang@id.sedl.org ip 198.213.9.2
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:41:54 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>>> >> I have been suprised at how frequently that 1:216 comes up.
>>>
>>> TRG> Yeah. A little less than .5% of the time, for me.
>>>
>>> Tell that to the corpse.
>>
>> Well, I don't think he'll hear me, but . . .
>>
>> "Mr. Corpse? A critical hit is rolled a little less than .5% of
>>the time."
>
> "Just think of it, sir! Your death saved 215 lives!"
Don't forget, it's also a 1:216 that a 3d6+1K comes up at max BODY,
so *that* situation only comes up less than 0.0025% of the time...
"Mr. Corpse? You're really unlucky..."
(max damage on 4d6K comes up more often... hello, 120 STUN!)
Donald
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-4.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-4.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.134
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:45:35 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA19693
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org
> I say we leave it as is (now that we all know it's there -- most of the
confusion happened because it was just done without announcement, and
nobody really payed attention to the "Reply-To" Header), and only change it
back when an actual problem surfaces.<
I prefered it the old way, myself. When looking at a list of my messages,
I could see who sent each message. Now, every message comes from "champ-l"
and I have to sift through that archaic internet header stuff to figure out
who sent a particular message. Plus, my auto-quoting thing (see above) no
longer knows which user it is quoting. Anyway, it seems like most people
like the new way, so I'll adapt.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---"Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" wrote:
>
> OK, Puma give, just WHAT this supplement about?
> Never heard of/saw it! Do like Valkries though! ^_^
>
Sorry, nothing to do with Valkries.
It was an adventure who's underlying premise was that of someone going
back in time to assassinate Hitler before he came to full power in
Germany. The heroes then had ot go back in time to save Hitler (it
the type of moral dilema that Rob Bell seemed to enjoy).
It was a well done adventure, but it generated some bad press for
Hero/ICE, so they elected to pull the product rather than risk further
negative press by fighting the issue. I sound, if (from the
perspective of someone who didn't get a copy) annoying business
decision.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:28:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---David B Stallard wrote:
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I say we leave it as is (now that we all know it's there -- most
of the
> confusion happened because it was just done without announcement, and
> nobody really payed attention to the "Reply-To" Header), and only
change it
> back when an actual problem surfaces.<
>
> I prefered it the old way, myself. When looking at a list of my
messages,
> I could see who sent each message. Now, every message comes from
"champ-l"
> and I have to sift through that archaic internet header stuff to
figure out
> who sent a particular message. Plus, my auto-quoting thing (see
above) no
> longer knows which user it is quoting. Anyway, it seems like most
people
> like the new way, so I'll adapt.
Now that's weird. All of the mail programs I use show the FROM field
in the list of messages and hide the REPLY-TO field unless you read
the header or reply to the message. What mail program are you using?
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:29:17 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:23 PM 4/8/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>OK, Puma give, just WHAT this supplement about?
>Never heard of/saw it! Do like Valkries though! ^_^
>
In (very) short, the PC's have to time travel to save Hitler. You can see
why they got in trouble...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:29:17 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:23 PM 4/8/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>OK, Puma give, just WHAT this supplement about?
>Never heard of/saw it! Do like Valkries though! ^_^
>
In (very) short, the PC's have to time travel to save Hitler. You can see
why they got in trouble...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.132
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:44:46 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement request
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA22372
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> In days past, my group's just had a large sheet of 25mm hex paper under
a sheet of transparent dry-erase plastic. The GM would then draw the map
on the plastic, and we'd put our characters' initials at whatever location
we were at. It may seem cheesy to some today, but it was a winner for the
6 years (or thereabouts) that I was with that crew.<
We have a transparent hex-map that we draw on, but we use dice or the 4E
cardboard miniatures to represent people. I bought the transparent version
of the hexmap so that I could draw out maps on paper ahead of time, and
just slide them underneath for an instant map. The funny thing is, I've
never done this. I always just sketch out a map on the hexmap itself. I
should start doing them on paper first, for two reasons: to have a
permanent copy of a map in case I want to use it again, and because I can
get more detailed since I won't be holding up the game while I draw. On my
sketches, I usually don't put enough in the way of cars, trees, and other
things that could affect the battle (brick ammunition).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:59:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> TRG> For purposes of completeness. These are unimportant mental data
> TRG> packets, but they exist and can be affected like any other.
>
> Things with point costs can be bought with character points and sold for
> character points. Except for these unimportant memories which have a point
> cost but cannot be bought with or sold for character points.
Sure they can. KS: Relatives' Birthdays, 14-, 5 pts
KS: My High School Years, 12-, 3 pts
KS: Problems with my car, 13-, 4pts
We could go on. Most GMs won't charge for these things. I'd also
say that something like Dispel would work for temporary loss of these
memories, and turning them back on would be just a matter of thinking
about it.
> Excuse me if I cannot see anything complete or consistant about the idea.
You say you can buy anything, and I pointed out memories are the
same way. However, I've got some things that may be a little messy to
buy: A stool, a dead floppy disk, a pencil, a postage stamp, the ability
to make farting noises with my hands,the ability to tie a cherry stem with
my tongue, the ability to belch "Happy Birthday to You", the ability to
annoy my girlfriend with my finger tapping.
How would I buy these?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:04:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Well, I don't think he'll hear me, but . . .
> >
> > "Mr. Corpse? A critical hit is rolled a little less than .5% of
> >the time."
>
> "Just think of it, sir! Your death saved 215 lives!"
Well, more than that. Because some attacks were still too small
to kill, and others rolled little enough damage to not kill. Heck, as
your system requires a roll for the Crit to occur _after_ the 1 in 216
chance, we're looking at more like, to be liberal, 1 in 500.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:06:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I prefered it the old way, myself. When looking at a list of my messages,
> I could see who sent each message. Now, every message comes from "champ-l"
> and I have to sift through that archaic internet header stuff to figure out
> who sent a particular message. Plus, my auto-quoting thing (see above) no
> longer knows which user it is quoting. Anyway, it seems like most people
> like the new way, so I'll adapt.
Actually, those are other good points. It is more difficult to
follow who sent what in what thread.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:29:26 -0400
Lines: 59
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "S" == Sakura <jeffj@io.com> writes:
S> Now, the shooter with more CSLs will be able to do more damage at the
S> same level of accuracy, yes, which is I think what you are trying to
S> say.
Which the system already handles, if you use the option to add CSLs to DCs:
the attacker has a tougher shot at a location that will hurt worse.
[...]
S> If they both just 'fire at some guy' and they both hit, they both do the
S> same amount of damage. The experienced shooter is more likely to hit,
S> though.
The experienced shooter will consider the target and decide what part of
the target he can hit. If he decides he cannot hit the head, then he will
concentrate on the torso.
The final result is the same, however.
[...]
S> The sharpshooter is aiming dead center at his heart, but if he misses
S> his roll, he misses the guy entirely? In a more realistic situation, it
S> wouldn't be all-or-nothing - either he'd hit the vitals, or he'd hit the
S> guy in the chest, or he'd miss.
What you are describing is not a critical hit system. What you are asking
for is a minor change to hit/miss determination. Something like, If you
miss just due to hit location penalties (that is, if the roll were
unmodified by a hit location penalty you would have hit), then you hit an
adjacent location on the chart. That can be pretty messy when attempting a
wounding shot and accidentally hitting something more vital.
[...]
>> Hero is already a disturbingly accurate model of reality;
S> I have nothing to say to this. You must live in a very interesting world.
I live in the real one, where people frequently die from gunshot wounds.
The Hero system as it currently stands is disturbingly accurate.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSvsNJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHHagP8DQEw3GPtLgDPpOu2oeo2W4QJymOdG6sI
pbmUXV6MN7IC0Quwde9iMrC9QOqi+n8Fm0Af4TsVXw9p8rYOEOElET4iU7ElqKka
X0d7a9RRnFUxUlYLqtzwq74VyPnqmwVGoiTyOaZw7XaXtwMdxvyHaoAdhw8uy0Sp
Q64ptEQpW9M=
=e/l2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:35:39 -0400
Lines: 33
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> Excuse me if I cannot see anything complete or consistant about the idea.
TRG> You say you can buy anything, and I pointed out memories are the
TRG> same way.
No, you imply that one can buy anything. My point is that things that the
things that cost points are things that are important to the game (rather,
the game mechanics). If random memories are not "important" then they
have no real point cost. If they are important, and they do cost points,
why is it that they cannot be bought and sold like everything else in the
game that cost points?
This is not complete or consistant, Tim. It is a exception made for
munchkinism's sake.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSvtqp6VRH7BJMxHAQE+0gP/dZhoRaUWtgsDlrH1WcZJV94NeSEsE+We
U8h9ACyMlEPvtrHQ5zQ34oW7HS/nPhUcs4UR4NzpzOrqlTPfVbUtXGmDusucVvGe
OTk7bKXOTEScJJwMeahlGY6FNGPdHY0JjiW3f34ARDLRle9k7wGHcIVQ6O6orl0F
kKw/yiIw6qo=
=NKL5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:38:06 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:04 PM 4/8/1998 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> > Well, I don't think he'll hear me, but . . .
>> >
>> > "Mr. Corpse? A critical hit is rolled a little less than .5% of
>> >the time."
>>
>> "Just think of it, sir! Your death saved 215 lives!"
>
> Well, more than that. Because some attacks were still too small
>to kill, and others rolled little enough damage to not kill. Heck, as
>your system requires a roll for the Crit to occur _after_ the 1 in 216
>chance, we're looking at more like, to be liberal, 1 in 500.
Just as a guess, probably something like 1:300 or so just for the Crit
to occur in the first place (including the 1:216 for the natural 3 that
started it).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:38:34 -0400
Lines: 30
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BW" == Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com> writes:
>> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to
>> the list. [...]
BW> Personally I think it' great.
Personally, this is the one thing that will make me leave the list.
I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if it
is still there, I am gone.
(Yes, I loathe lists that set Reply-To headers back to themselves.)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSvuPZ6VRH7BJMxHAQELPgQAxvf904e4/kVRYe+2NqxJEhO4aOoa9OW5
X+vgaxsADn0+XLIsDx+U3DMZiPQlG1y1Y+2yXaeMZrVRrLlpswA28+NCckfEIhOx
7w66YpIyVGVIzG5MtVeUtydyxWbsblPoErvs6aVtsoLg3BaWyPtPUWu7/9uzuDaC
xy7UPDeYOfg=
=IbUR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pm04sm.pmm.mci.net from jstefanski@internetmci.com server @pm04sm.pmm.mci.net ip 208.159.126.153
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:51:26 -0500
From: John Stefanski <jstefanski@internetmci.com>
Subject: RE: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Eric I would be very interested in the cardboard miniature .TIF files.
Thanks,
JS
========================
JS Stefanski - jstefanski@iname.com
"aut vincere aut mori" - Conquer or Die
========================
On April 08, 1998 2:47 AM, Eric Chauvin [SMTP:calicajun@prtcl.com] wrote:
> David Stallar wrote:
>
> >Some people might think this is goofy, but I'd really like to see more of
> >those cardboard character "miniatures" that came with the 4E GM's screen.
> >Not only are there not enough of them, but they look pretty dated (no more
> >bellbottom pants, please!). I don't know if there's any need for a 5E GM's
> >screen that could include these, but my group finds them very useful seeing
> >that "real" superhero miniatures are virtually impossible to find (I know
> >Hero made some a long time ago, but they're all gone as far as I know).
>
> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
> files to the Hero E-mail list.
> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
> ____________________________
> GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
> ---------------------------------------------
> Eric Chauvin
> calicajun@prtcl.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:04:56 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:41 AM 4/8/1998 -0700, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>Here's something I pondered a while back at
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/haym15l.html.
>
>Mind Stealing
>In The Ultimate Mentalist, a method is presented for switching minds
>(the same method that I presented back in Haymaker #5!). But how can
>minds be stolen?
>Example: Mind Thief steals Defender's mind. Now Defender doesn't know
>who he is, or why he's in a power suit. Mind Thief now knows everything
>that Defender did, including how to operate the suit, his secret ID, his
>engineering skills, his first girlfriend, everything.
>Here's my attempt:
> - Mind Control or Mental Illusions (single command -- "You know
>nothing."), or Transform into an Amnesiac
> - Transfer versus INT, EGO, and all skills
> - Mind Link versus single target
> - Read-only Telepathy, perhaps Autofire
>Is it legal to transfer skills that the transferring character does not
>possess himself?
If it's legal to Transfer Skills at all (and I don't see why it
shouldn't be, if the Transfer is BOECV) then it shouldn't matter whether
the Transferring character has them or not.
>The Autofire on Telepathy would allow up to five facts to be read per
>phase, not just one. Does this sound reasonable?
Works for me (subject to the usual restrictions on Autofire).
>Can Area Effect Mind Control or Autofire Mind Control be used to send
>different commands to each of its targets? What if it had the Variable
>Special Effects advantage, with the varying effects being varying
>commands?
I don't think I'd allow different commands to different targets for Mind
Control any more than I'd allow different Powers for different targets for
a regular attack (the Swiss Army Machine Gun notwithstanding). With a
variation on the Variable Special Effects Advantage (one I call Variable
Result), I might allow it, though.
>Which is more appropriate to wipe a target's mind -- mind control or
>mental illusions?
It depends on the dynamic involved. If the mentalist is giving the
command, "Forget Everything," then the target will still be able to
struggle to remember it; that's Mind Control. If the mentalist is casting
a cloud over the target's mind to make it more difficult to recall things,
that would be Mental Illusions (though I'd call it a rather tenuous use of
that Power). The same result could also be done with Telepathy, Transform,
Dispel, or Mental Paralysis, depending on how you envision the target being
able to recover the memories (if at all).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:08:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Transformation Attacks (5ED)?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:08 AM 4/8/1998 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Bob Greenwade writes:
>> I took a while to peruse this, and I think it look quite interesting.
>> Certainly there's a lot of thought given to quantifying how Transform
>> works. Other than organizing the bonuses a little more neatly, the only
>> thing I'd recommend is having the effects go against BODY rather than CON.
>> There's a strong history for using BODY for Transforms, and it makes it
>> easier to apply logically to machines and inanimate objects, which have
>> BODY but not CON.
>
>Unfortunately (though arguably this is the fault of character designers) a
lot
>of characters have quite low body -- effects like transform _should_ be more
>effective against minor characters than against important characters, and
>directing the power against CON has that effect, since most major characters
>are built on 18+ CON. Then again, I don't much like characters with 10 EGO
>either. I suppose I could do transform with 'breakout' rolls based on CON
>instead.
That could work -- basing the effect on BODY, but using CON for
"breakouts."
>Incidentally, what should the 'natural' duration of a transform be?
I have no idea. I think I'd just let the target heal it like BODY
damage, with an option for an all-or-nothing cure, like it is now. When
the character has been in the Transformed state for as long as it would
take him to heal the BODY from the Transform (as though it had been an AVLD
Energy Blast doing BODY), he gets his first Breakout Roll.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:43:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> No, you imply that one can buy anything. My point is that things that the
> things that cost points are things that are important to the game (rather,
> the game mechanics). If random memories are not "important" then they
> have no real point cost. If they are important, and they do cost points,
> why is it that they cannot be bought and sold like everything else in the
> game that cost points?
Eh? Like I said, they can be bought just fine. Like all Everyman
Skills, however, they cannot be sold. One can get a Physical Lim from not
having them, but they can't be sold.
Compare to Normal Sight -- everyone has it, and it can't be bought
off. However, a physical lim can get rid of it and, I'd argue, a dispel
vs. eye-sfx would cause a momentary inability to see.
Look at the ability to breathe in an oxygen-based environment.
Everyone gets it free and you can't buy it off. Howver, you can take a
physical lim to represent not having this ability.
So where is the inconsistency. Memories would be no more than
KSs, plain and simple. As such, they can be affected by Adjustment
Powers.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:00:45 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
She's my Fiancee. No date set yet.
-Sam
-> From redbf@ldd.net Wed Apr 8 06:48:44 1998
-> X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
-> X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
-> MIME-Version: 1.0
-> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-> Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
-> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
->
-> Lizard wrote:
-> >
-> > At 01:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Miq Millman wrote:
-> > >Just an early birthday greeting, here.
-> > >How's things? Have you and Zoe set a date yet?
-> > >Chromatic Dragon sends his best as well on this joint anniversay occaision.
->
->
-> > Misdirected mail. Gotta love it.
->
->
-> Actually, I am wondering who Zoe is and if they set a date or not.
->
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:01:33 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >> Someone (John, presumably, since he's the list admin) set Reply-To: to
> >> the list. [...]
>
> BW> Personally I think it' great.
>
> Personally, this is the one thing that will make me leave the list.
>
> I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if it
> is still there, I am gone.
>
> (Yes, I loathe lists that set Reply-To headers back to themselves.)
Really, when it wasn't there I once considered leaving over that. But
then I just decided I could deal with the extra work. I can't stand
having to
type in the list's name in every message I reply to. :)
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:08:39 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: 14 years ago tomorrow
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Hey dude.
No date yet. We're still planning on buying a new house first.
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 08 Apr 1998 20:12:38 -0400
Lines: 32
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "R" == Rook <rook@infinex.com> writes:
R> Really, when it wasn't there I once considered leaving over
R> that. But then I just decided I could deal with the extra work. I can't
R> stand having to type in the list's name in every message I reply to. :)
You see, a good mail client will automatically Do The Right Thing,
depending on which reply command you use. Reply-To headers pointing back
at a mailing list make it impossible for good mail clients to Do The Right
Thing because it will honor the Reply-To header first and foremost, which
is what RFC 822 says it should do.
A perfect example is this list, which overrode the Reply-To header that I
set specifically to prevent discussion on the mailing list. I cannot abide
broken mailing lists when I use a good mail client.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNSwSdZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGd6wQAvHyRFDYATLBH2YlnEMQBUhEPMlqONDIb
WRFH/+w341P+HNYk/GEOy3iaQ7BN1dmwBBJxVDQ31rh9UA2W6bSID565qxgniviN
vjBbXvYJPwZVDMD6D5ElkIEzuivAJ/lO9ycbZCP/kZEarMreWwsbrT6gZAf9drAm
LdsUFXoC7oQ=
=qZyr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:11:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
Here! Here! I agree! I would think that the "best interest of the
list" would include keeping unnecessary, or off-topic, discussion
OFF-LIST. I guess if the reply-to header is going to be used, I will
just have to send smaller comments (that I normally would just send to
the author) to the list instead...
---Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "R" == Rook <rook@infinex.com> writes:
>
> R> Really, when it wasn't there I once considered leaving over
> R> that. But then I just decided I could deal with the extra work. I
can't
> R> stand having to type in the list's name in every message I reply
to. :)
>
> You see, a good mail client will automatically Do The Right Thing,
> depending on which reply command you use. Reply-To headers pointing
back
> at a mailing list make it impossible for good mail clients to Do The
Right
> Thing because it will honor the Reply-To header first and foremost,
which
> is what RFC 822 says it should do.
>
> A perfect example is this list, which overrode the Reply-To header
that I
> set specifically to prevent discussion on the mailing list. I
cannot abide
> broken mailing lists when I use a good mail client.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNSwSdZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGd6wQAvHyRFDYATLBH2YlnEMQBUhEPMlqONDIb
> WRFH/+w341P+HNYk/GEOy3iaQ7BN1dmwBBJxVDQ31rh9UA2W6bSID565qxgniviN
> vjBbXvYJPwZVDMD6D5ElkIEzuivAJ/lO9ycbZCP/kZEarMreWwsbrT6gZAf9drAm
> LdsUFXoC7oQ=
> =qZyr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid
core,
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to
rupture, should
> \ not be touched, inhaled, or
looked at.
>
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo13.mx.aol.com from legionair@aol.com server @imo13.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.35
From: Legionair <Legionair@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:48:16 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: The Watchmen
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
I don't remember who was looking for the Watchmen information, but I found a
pretty in-depth site on the subject...
http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/jbfliege/watchmen.html
It has a full write up of the additional information that was in the Mayfair
DC Heroes supplement as well.
Jason
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:00:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: CHAR: Devil Hunter Yohko
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
I hold no enmity against those coerced into evil;
But to those vile beings who toy with the hearts and souls of men,
Since the time of the Ancient Gods, we have been your destroyers!
Now the 108th Devil Hunter, Yohko, is here... Beware!
DEVIL HUNTER YOHKO
(aka MAMNO HUNTER YOHKO)
(Yohko Mano)
Designers Notes:
Yohko Mano is a member of the very old Mano clan. For over 2,000 years
this clan has been defending Japan from incursions of 'yoma' (a generic
term for demons, devils and other supernatural beasts). Yohko is the
108th of her line, trained in the arts of devil hunting by her
grandmother, Madoka Mano.
The Mano's got their start when Haruka Mano, the first devil hunter,
defeated the demon Tokima and sealed him away. Since then, Tokima has
managed to periodically break free, sending incursions of demons and other
foul creatures to trouble man. It's the job of the Mano clan to send
these creatures back to where they came from.
Yohko is not alone in her quest, however, she has her grandmother - a
once-powerful devil hunter in her own right - to help her, as well as
Azusa Kanzaki, a junior devil-hunter in training. Yohko's mother, Sayoko,
doesn't believe a word of this, and calmly goes about her daily business
of putting food on the table (and meeting single men) instead of risking
life and limb defending Japan from the supernatural. Oh well, to each
their own...
Description:
Yohko is a 16 year old school girl, but this being anime that doesn't say
much. She looks to be fairly tall, with long legs, a narrow waist and
hips and a surprisingly large bust. She has dark eyes and brown hair that
would come down past her waist if she didn't keep it tied up in two
ponytails. As Yohko, she wears typical Western dress; as Devil Hunter
Yohko, however, she wears in a very tight one piece Chinese styled sheath
dress that is slit up to the hip on either side. The dress is red with
gold trim and has a ying-yang symbol on the chest. Yohko also wears gold
bands at the wrist and ankle and black slippers to complete her
devil-hunting outfit.
Powers Notes:
Yohko, like many other anime and comic heroes, suffers from a severe case
of 'one-shot' syndrome, meaning that we see her perform a number of
attacks once and once only, regardless of how effective these attacks
looked at the time. For completeness sake, I've included these single use
powers, mainly because they made for a more interesting character.
For starters, Yohko seems to derive most of her powers from her 'Yoma
Ring'. The ring is a piece of jewelry that loosely resembles a goat's
head. The teeth fit around the middle finger, while the horns wrap across
the back of the hand. Yohko wears this ring on her left hand.
When the power of the ring is activated, Yohko undergoes a rather typical
'magical girl'-styled transformation. In the style of anime 'magical
girls' everywhere (ie. Sailor Moon, Pretty Sammy et al), Yohko spins
around, her clothes disintegrate and her devil hunting uniform forms
itself around her body. All accompanied by a dazzling light show and
theme music. That done, Yohko can then summon her 'Sword of the Soul'
which can used to quickly cut most demon into chunks.
Probably the most obvious change in Yohko, once she transforms, is that
she becomes physically more powerful. She's a little stronger, a *lot*
faster, and *much* more tougher than she had been. The transformation
also seems to be a big confidence boost, Yohko is much more willing to
tackle monsters *after* she's transformed than before - hence the PRE
bonus (and that form-fitting dress certainly does wonders for her
figure!).
After transforming, Yohko can call upon her 'Sword of the Soul'. This is
a two-handed, straight bladed sword about the size of your average katana,
with a large axe-blade forming part of the crossguard. It can be used as
a normal sword, or Yohko can separate the blade and use just the axe (she
did this once when the blade itself got stuck in a monster). The sword
can also be used to generate the traditional 'sword-energy' so common to
anime. Yohko winds up, takes a mighty swing, and sends a line of energy
streaking towards her opponent. She's done this twice, generating a
simple cutting attack the first time, and a bolt of fire the second. The
sword can also be used to block similar attacks. Several times a yoma
will toss a bolt of fire Yohko's way, she'll hold up the sword and the
bolt either dissipate against the blade, or be harmlessly cut in two.
Finally, the sword can be recalled to Yohko's if knocked away or left
behind. She simply has to hold out her hand and summon it. Note that
this takes about a phase, and probably has to be reasonably close by.
In her hair, Yohko wears two ornaments made from some sort of mystical
crystal. Supposedly, they allow one to focus their inner power. I don't
know about that, but at one point, she used them to generate bands of red
energy with which to immobilize a foe.
Yohko herself is capable of taking quite a bit of abuse one she's
transformed. She gets kicked around by any number of monsters and still
comes back for more. She also seems to take a lot less damage from claws
and blades than one would expect. This seems to be a common cinematic
stunt, especially in anime, where a sword fight will result in a lot of
thin little cuts instead of any major crippling wounds. A good simulation
of this is by buying the character some Armor with Invisible Power
Effects. This is what I did for Yohko. Note, the SFX on her Armor is
that you cut her dress to shreds, not Yohko herself.
Yohko looks to be a reasonably well-trained martial artist. She fights
equally well bare-handed or with her sword. Her martial arts are pretty
generic, as she obviously doesn't practice and specific style. It should
be noted that the Martial Strike, Offensive Strike and Throw are
restricted to bare handed use, while the Bind and Passing Strike are
performed only with the sword. The Sacrifice Strike is either an all-out
slash, or a Flying Kick. The Passing Strike itself is often used in
conjunction with Yohko's Superleap in order to generate enough power.
Finally, Yohko preferred defensive tactic is her Flying Dodge, which she
aborts to often.
Yohko is only 16 (or maybe 18, depends on which tape you watch), and
hasn't really accumulated any skills of note (other than ones used to hunt
devils). She is a very good acrobat, however and is *very* good at
dodging.
Disadvantages Notes:
Yohko's costume is rather striking, especially since no one else runs
around in a bright red, skin-tight dress... it is kind of hard to miss
her.
Chigako Ogawa is Yohko's self-proclaimed business manager, who figures
that Yohko's devil hunting skills are a sure ticket to easy money. Azusa
Kanzaki is a 'junior devil-hunter in training'. She has a version of the
Yoma Ring herself, and can summon the 'Spear of Fuma' when she transforms.
Azusa means well and doesn't do *that* bad in a fight, and will follow her
teacher (ie. Yohko) to the ends of the Earth (or beyond).
Being 16, Yohko suffers from all the same sorts of emotional problems that
most 16 year old girls do... She wants boys to notice her (and drools
after anyone who is 'cuter than average') and will fall in love in about 5
seconds if presented with a reasonable handsome male. Her grandmother
calls her 'fluff-brain' and 'airhead', mainly because Yohko can be counted
on oversleeping every morning and then running around in a panic upon
waking.
Ayako Mano is Yohko's most dangerous foe (sort of). The granddaughter of
Chiaki Mano, Madoka Mano's twin sister, Ayako looks *just* like Yohko,
wears a similar costume (except in black and gold) and carries the 'whip
of distraction'. Ayako is very smart, has a follower similar to Azusa
(and called Azusa #2) and is a very dirty fighter. She originally wanted
to destroy Yohko and take her place as the rightful Devil Hunter, now, she
just wants to defeat Yohko to prover herself.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 7/10* 2
Dex 14/24* 36
Con 10/20* 16
Body 9* -2
Int 13 3
Ego 12 4
Pre 10/20* 8
Com 16/20* 4
PD 2/10* 7
ED 2/10* 5
Spd 2/4* 5
Rec 3/6* 0
End 20/40* 0
Stun 18/30 5
Char Total 93
Power Total 176
Total Cost 269
COST POWERS & SKILLS
*Characteristics gained Only in Hero Form via 'Yoma Ring' (see
below)
1 Martial Arts: Generic HTH fighting skills, Use Art with Sword
4 Bind +1 OCV +0 DCV 20 STR Bind
4 Block +2 OCV +2 DCV Block, Abort
5 Flying Dodge +0 OCV +4 DCV Dodge vs All, Abort, Full Move
4 Martial Strike +0 OCV +2 DCV 4d6 Strike (+1DC)
5 Offensive Strike -2 OCV +1 DCV 6d6 Strike (+2DC)
5 Passing Strike +1 OCV +0 DCV 2d6 + v/5; Full Move
5 Sacrifice Stroke +1 OCV -2 DCV 6d6 Strike (+2DC)
3 Throw +1 OCV +0 DCV 2d6 + v/5; Target Falls
4 Instant Change: Costume, IIF: Yoma Ring
33 Multipower: Sword of the Soul, OIF (can be recalled)
3 u 2d6 HKA, +1 OCV, 0 END - sword blade
3 u 1d6+1 HKA, AP, 0 END - axe blade
2 u 10d6 EB, Cannot half move and attack (-1/4), Beam (-1/4)
2 u 3d6+1 RKA, Cannot half move and attack (-1/4), 2x END (-1/2)
2 u Missile Deflection: vs All, +5 to roll
24 4d6 Entangle: , Transparent (+1/2), Only Binds two Limbs (-1/2),
Concentrate: 0 DCV (-1/2), Full Phase (-1/4), IIF: Hair Ornaments
10 Armor: 3 DEF, Invisible Power Effects (+1/2), OIH (-1/4)
12 Damage Reduction: 1/4 Physical Resistant, OIH (-1/4)
4 Running: +2" (8"/16")
6 Superleap: +6" (8"/4")
3 Acrobatics 14-
3 Breakfall 14-
3 Climbing 14-
2 KS: Demons, devils and other monsters 11-
2 KS: History of the Mano clan 11-
1 KS: Shinto Rites 8-
3 Stealth 14-
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
8 CSL: +4 DCV with Flying Dodge
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: Outfit (Conceal, Major reaction)
10 DNPC: Chigako Ogawa (norm) 8-
15 DNPC: Azusa Kanzaki (less pow) 14-
20 Hunted: Demons (assorted) 14-
10 Psych: A bit of a 'fluff brain'
15 Psych: Falls in love at the drop of a hat
5 Unluck: 1d6
10 Rivalry: Ayako Mano (prof and romantic)
69 Mamano Bonus
(Devil Hunter Yohko created by Masao Moruyoma, character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:44:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from genfield@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: genfield@mail.cyberis.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Grant Enfield <genfield@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
Brian Wong wrote:
>4: they bump in Columbus
um . . . isn't this a family-oriented list?? OR is that how they do things
in Columbus?
thank you for letting me waste all your time,
grant
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.1.64
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:01:22 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Organization: None
To: "Champ's Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Archtypes
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
I've noticed that the Archtypes discussion has run its course and was
wondering if anyone finally got them all down or not....
I'm really into fiddling with established norms for villains and heroes
and I was looking for some quick source material. (I'm terribley lazy
and I love to see other gamer's takes on characters)
I don't care what point totals are used so.....
If no one wants this topic to rear its ugly head again respond privately
Thankz,
Chad
chadriley01@sprynet.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:42:21 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Erasing Memories
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>
> Things with point costs can be bought with character points and sold for
> character points. Except for these unimportant memories which have a point
> cost but cannot be bought with or sold for character points.
>
> Excuse me if I cannot see anything complete or consistant about the idea.
I believe that the argument runs as follows:
The everyman power "memory" should have an implied point cost, just as
normal sight should have an implicit point cost. Subject to GM approval,
it can be sold back in lieu of taking a Phys Lim. Memories, on the other
hand, are an *instance* of a power, which don't cost points, but can be
dispelled or suppressed.
Consider Darkness bought as a continuing charge. This is a power that
costs points. Casting a Darkness does not cost points, it costs a
charge. Once I cast an instance of Darkness, it can be dispelled or
suppressed, but it cannot be sold back for points.
Similarly, the ability to remember things could be sold back, but an
individual memory is merely an instance, subject to being dispelled. I
suppose that the implied power Memory has a couple of levels of "Hard to
Dispel" associated with it, with the SFX limitation that they only apply
to important or vivid memories.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo15.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo15.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.37
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 04:55:48 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
> If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
> world would be considered publishable.
Then you misunderstand what Steve Peterson has explained. He clearly stated
that they could still publish unrelated genre books. They're not limited to
only that timeline.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 05:48:37 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Opening Day
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
> PLAY BALL!!!
>
>Oh, man! we went through this last year!
>
>A BASEBALL GAME IS NOT COMBAT!
>
>And that is all I will say this time around.
What about Hockey?
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:07:45 -0500
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Old Hero System products
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
Recent mention of "Wings of the Valkyrie" -- a product I don't recall
having heard of before this week, although I started buying Champions
material about the time Champions II came out -- made me wonder how many
other adventures or sourcebooks there might be out there that I'm not aware
of. I went back through my collections and listed all the gaps in the
sequence of product numbers. Can anyone tell me what these items are:
HERO03
HERO05
HERO07
HERO13
HERO33
HERO37
HERO43
HERO45
HERO49
Thanks.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:23:02 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
>
> > If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
> > world would be considered publishable.
>
> Then you misunderstand what Steve Peterson has explained. He clearly stated
> that they could still publish unrelated genre books. They're not limited to
> only that timeline.
>
I know that's been stated now, but the thing did begin by saying
'anyone who wants to publish for hero plus must read this'.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-4.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-4.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.134
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:37:04 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id JAA16097
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
>I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if
it
is still there, I am gone.<
That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shirley.theramp.net from voxel@theramp.net server @shirley.theramp.net ip 205.212.88.4
X-Sender: voxel@mail.theramp.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:44:09 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:20 PM 4/9/98 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
> Enemies. 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? And most of the
> character writeups were similarly over-powered to the extreme. The biker
> gang was the only redeeming bit...
"Dippy" wouldn't be the word I chose for it. "Misdirected", maybe. I tend to
class _The MUTANT File_ in the "Good Ideas Run Amuck" category. There's very
little in the book I'm not using in my campaigns _somehow_ ... but there's
also very little in the book that got used "as is", or even close to "as
is". As written, there's just too much "k001ness" in the book, that vague
spirit inherent in newbie munchkins who can't wait to impress you with their
terminally badass creations. As much as has been talked about the point
totals, I think there was even more of a need for /conceptual/ restraint
than point restraint. For example:
* I toned down the Genocide agents a little, basically by rendering the
various ranks into package deals and equipment attached to Competent
Normals, and by revising the equipment to get rid of its "shopping list"
feeping creaturism. I think it's more interesting to have an anti-mutant
organization that ISN'T teeming with power-nullifying technology -- it's too
EASY to go that route.
* In my own campaign, Rex Albus's branch covers the entire Americas, and
Purifier is /his/ Bishop. Regina Atra has been retconned into a Japanese
woman in charge of the Asian branch (it was really silly to create a
bureacratic setup that ignores China, Russia, AND India, the three most
populous -- and thus probably most mutant-ous -- nations in the world!).
* IMAGE makes for a nice "bad guy mutants" group, but they don't have the
"army of thousands" described in their writeup. Like I said, conceptual
restraint.
* Say "No" to "advanced generation mutants" -- these are based on the
serious misconception of evolution as a linear process from single-celled
organisms to Gods On Earth (which, incidentally, is the same misconception
that fuels IMAGE, the BAD guys ... it's usually A Bad Idea(tm) to make the
villains *right*). There is no "good" or "bad" in the evolutionary chain --
if you lived to produce offspring, you were "good".
And so on.
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.132
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:13:32 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: More book reviews, please
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id KAA18041
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
Here are some more books that sound interesting. A few of these might not
be out of print, but I think most of them are. Could someone (or several
someones) give me brief revies of these:
* Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies
* Corporations
* Enemies for Hire
* Enemies Assemble
* Atlantis
* Foxbat Unhinged
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wings of the Valkries
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,12-13,20-21,24-26
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:20:41 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
>>OK, Puma give, just WHAT this supplement about?
>>Never heard of/saw it! Do like Valkries though! ^_^
>>
>In (very) short, the PC's have to time travel to save Hitler. You can
>see
>why they got in trouble...
>
I recently got a copy of this through www.dragontrove.com (the same place
I found the VIPER supplement, and no I don't know if he has any more {of
either} in stock). I was going to throw in spoiler space here, but it
looks like by now the whole list knows the basic idea.
Several Holocaust survivors (some with superhuman powers, some TPOs, one
scientific genius to build the time machine) intend to travel back to
1931 and kill enough key Nazis to ensure the Holocaust never happens.
Unfortunately, when Our Heroes are caught in the time travel field, they
find out that the "new" timeline is even worse than the one it replaced.
They then have to time-hop to Munich before the Children of the Holocaust
can start the massacre and make sure history isn't changed.
Sorry Puma, no real Valkyries in the story -- the plan to change history
was named after a real-world Operation Valkyrie (the plot to kill Hitler
in 1944).
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:40:55 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
>
> All mixed up, no clue about what genre they should be in.
> Work's on a fantasy version of Babe Watch on the tele, but I stopped
> being able to play or GM in this setting after middle school.
I assume you mean that it's more mature to play within solidly defined and
previously
existing genre? speaking as a mature person myself- shea RIGHT!
>Around the
> same time the minimum acceptable stat for a PC went below 18 in my group.
:)
> (And, yes, saying minimum was not a typo)
>
> Multigenre on drugs. :)
*snort* i can beat that. we used the champions stat scale while playing
ad&d. ..
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:41:59 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
> >
> > I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
> > of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
> > Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
> > each, lots of duplicates).
>
> I don't know if Battletech was said or not, but the world would
> fit just fine with the other two. Magic would just have receeded again.
>
>
*drool* anyone for awakened mechs? TELL me that isn't a cool idea. .
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
> -"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:47:44 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
>
> Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
> >I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if
> it
> is still there, I am gone.<
>
> That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
um, isn't it like, way more convinient, and stuff? or am i on the wrong
thread?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:06:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
At 06:23 AM 4/9/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>>
>> > If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
>> > world would be considered publishable.
>>
>> Then you misunderstand what Steve Peterson has explained. He clearly
stated
>> that they could still publish unrelated genre books. They're not limited to
>> only that timeline.
>>
> I know that's been stated now, but the thing did begin by saying
>'anyone who wants to publish for hero plus must read this'.
I happen to still have Steve's original post, and in actuality he said
no such thing, nor anything even close. He did state that this is where
the new Dark Champions and Justice, Inc. revisions are going to be set, and
that they are looking for authors for other settings. And it arguably goes
without saying that anyone who wants to write for the Hero Universe will
need to know the layout. But they will be publishing other stuff, Broken
Kingdoms being one example.
For my own part, I have two all-original things on the drawing board
that I'd like to do, and only one of them would go into the Hero Universe.
For over a decade I've wanted to put together a setting that would combine
elements of space opera and high fantasy, a sort of "Star Trek" with
wizards. I kinda gave up on it after Spelljammer was released, but reading
through the Hero Universe timeline revived it; I think it could fit quite
well into the 47th century, sandwiched between the Rebellion and the era of
the Galactic Champions.
The other idea, which would definitely *not* fit into the Hero Universe,
is something I call Chaos Theory (a sort of X-Files a la Zucker).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:10:24 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
At 09:37 AM 4/9/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
>>I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if
>it is still there, I am gone.<
>
>That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
Sh! ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:28:14 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
On 4/9/98 10:13 AM David B Stallard (DBStallard@compuserve.com) Said:
>* Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies
I have this but don't use it, It is not really my favorite Genre. If you
like that sort of thing then it would be good. As I recall it was well
written, but very derivitave.
>* Corporations
My second-favorite Hero book Ever. Using the Ideas and companies in here
can potentially add a great deal to the plotting and believability of a
campaign.
>* Atlantis
Without a doubt, the best book Hero has ever done. Great Art, Great story
hooks and plot elements, many different options presented, and a Minimum
of new rules. It was somewhat derivitave, but with this subject matter,
that is very hard to avoid.
>* Foxbat Unhinged
Ugh, Foxbat. The worst villian Hero ever made gets his own book.
Thrillsville.
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
Well, I know that the Herozine website has a review of Foxbat
Unhinged. Just read it the other day. I don't recall the URL,
though, sorry. ;-)
---David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> Here are some more books that sound interesting. A few of these
might not
> be out of print, but I think most of them are. Could someone (or
several
> someones) give me brief revies of these:
>
> * Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies
> * Corporations
> * Enemies for Hire
> * Enemies Assemble
> * Atlantis
> * Foxbat Unhinged
>
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Watchmen
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Wow! Great website! Thanks!
---Legionair <Legionair@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I don't remember who was looking for the Watchmen information, but I
found a
> pretty in-depth site on the subject...
>
> http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/jbfliege/watchmen.html
>
> It has a full write up of the additional information that was in the
Mayfair
> DC Heroes supplement as well.
>
> Jason
>
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-10.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-10.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.140
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:07:41 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA23738
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
Message text written by John Desmarais:
>Now that's weird. All of the mail programs I use show the FROM field
in the list of messages and hide the REPLY-TO field unless you read
the header or reply to the message. What mail program are you using?<
I'm using CompuServe, which may not have a sophisticated enough mail
reader. I have a few other email addresses that would probably act as you
describe, but this address is the most convenient for getting this mailing
list.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo peorth.gweep.net from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @swec-fw-e0.swec.com ip 199.103.216.194
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 09 Apr 1998 13:10:08 -0400
Lines: 30
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:37:04 -0400, David B Stallard
>>>>> <DBStallard@compuserve.com> said:
> Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
>> I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if
> it
> is still there, I am gone.<
> That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
You are right, it is silly. So is a mailing list that says I have to go
out of my way to properly direct my replies. I have better things to do
with my time.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS0A7J6VRH7BJMxHAQGlSAQAm5I7cgNswDVSKVvDlCOHUo9/AdcWQS0k
w7zjZbu22XPxqPpk5gUFiAGTubn5G4rL5/HV/1y78/z+OUeEngSgrmENwHyW/1AL
EqvVlPeOgZhes9R3JDkc3E50uoBVSBih9u3ZrrEJvTQdlkFq7q8oxmPxUk6/SNPc
iBU5c3LDdmo=
=fHhn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-5.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.135
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:11:59 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Watchers of the Dragon
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA23965
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
Does Watchers of the Dragon assume that you have Ultimate Martial Artist,
freely using rules from that book?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:17:33 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
At 12:41 AM 4/10/98 +1000, happyelf wrote:
>
>> >
>> > I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read much
>> > of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
>> > Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
>> > each, lots of duplicates).
>>
>> I don't know if Battletech was said or not, but the world would
>> fit just fine with the other two. Magic would just have receeded again.
>>
>>
>
>*drool* anyone for awakened mechs? TELL me that isn't a cool idea. .
(Sing)"We wish to welcome you to Munchkin Land!"(/Sing)
It's 20 meters tall, covered with ultrahardium armor, carriers enough
missiles to destroy a city...and it's sentient and casts spells. How many
smegging points is THAT worth?
(Hmmm...excpet for the spells, that would pretty much describe a
Transformer, so maybe it isn't so Munchkin...)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.136
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:18:01 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA24329
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
Message text written by David Fair:
>Ugh, Foxbat. The worst villian Hero ever made gets his own book.
Thrillsville.<
This got me thinking...would books dedicated to "serious" villains be
plausible? Most villains wouldn't warrant their own sourcebook, but I
could definitely see a whole book dedicated to Dr. Destroyer, for example.
I also wouldn't mind seeing more villain team books like the Zodiac book (I
will pay extra for the color art!).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
> >> I'll be nice and give it a grace period to go away. Come next Mondy, if
> > it
> > is still there, I am gone.<
>
> > That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
>
> You are right, it is silly. So is a mailing list that says I have to go
> out of my way to properly direct my replies. I have better things to do
> with my time.
Which is why it's easier to have the reply to go to the list, thus
allowing the message to automaticly go to the list, and only the list. Which
can be changed manually on those rare messages that don't go to the list.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:01:34 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< A few of these might not be out of print, but I think most of them are. >>
I would strongly urge checking out our web page, and going to our products
list. People keep mentioning "I think this is out of print," when clearly it
isn't. For the record <G>, all of the books you listed are still available. So
are a great many other 4th Ed books. All you have to do is go to the source.
Why ask the "masses?" They may also be mistaken about the status of a product.
To find out if we have a 4th Ed book in stock, go to:
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg
<< Could someone (or several someones) give me brief revies of these: >>
<< * Corporations >>
An awesome book. I hear the authors are really cool guys, one of which now
publishes 4th Ed books. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo peorth.gweep.net from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @swec-fw-e0.swec.com ip 199.103.216.194
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 09 Apr 1998 14:02:48 -0400
Lines: 36
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Brian Wong writes:
> Which is why it's easier to have the reply to go to the list, thus
> allowing the message to automaticly go to the list, and only the
> list. Which can be changed manually on those rare messages that don't go
> to the list.
Yeah... except for those of us used to good mail clients that do the right
thing and fill in the headers properly depending upon whether we "reply to
originator" or "reply to list". Instead of making less work, it makes it
more work, because I cannot easilly send a reply to a person using the same
command that I use for every other mailing list I am on.
Worse, I keep setting a Reply-To pointing back to myself to keep this from
becoming a list-wide discussion, and the boneheaded mail manager robot
keeps replacing it with a Reply-To header pointing at the list.
Sorry, I know better than anyone else where my responses should go. Any
boneheaded mail robot that thinks it knows better than I gets dropped.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS0NMJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHHdAP+Ne2pT62M7u0gwA87QRbfI0Rl+BDuLFP1
Q64ysvOMIvFdLu2EZTw3sMGqR7jyn4D3fJfDiXyyhNNSRsEEvVKnibQUkwBwGHmY
iskIdqTZDmTJnUw6xVGs0aUgmHroWc2HeVHRPIVo4A4wUjl0dfpMeQJI/h3E23WL
CW/Bxr8sZYY=
=8Aa/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >> > If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
> >> > world would be considered publishable.
> >> Then you misunderstand what Steve Peterson has explained. He clearly
> stated
> >> that they could still publish unrelated genre books. They're not limited to
> >> only that timeline.
> >>
> > I know that's been stated now, but the thing did begin by saying
> >'anyone who wants to publish for hero plus must read this'.
>
> I happen to still have Steve's original post, and in actuality he said
> no such thing, nor anything even close. He did state that this is where
This is a direct quote from the digital hero webpage:
*********
This Week (4/2/98):
I managed to miss a couple of weeks of Digital Hero updates due to computer
shuffling and web redesign stuff. So, we're going to get back on track with those
weekly updates, starting with this week. Sorry about the interruption.
1.Conversion Corner: That family of adventurer-scientist-heroes, the
Wilders, are here in all their 4th Edition glory.
2.The Hero Universe: If you want to know how Fantasy Hero, Justice
Inc., Champions: New Millennium, and CyberHero all hang together,
this article will tell you. Steve Peterson and Steve Long look at the Hero
Universe throughout the ages. This document is full of adventure settings
(and book ideas!). Note: If you are interested in writing for Hero
Plus, you need to check this out!
*****
It's right there in the last line.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:17:19 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:13 AM 4/9/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Here are some more books that sound interesting. A few of these might not
>be out of print, but I think most of them are. Could someone (or several
>someones) give me brief revies of these:
I'll do what I can. :-]
>* Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies
I'd call this one Above Average. Also, the title is a little
misleading; there's more attention to giving a sense of horror in a
superhero setting than to duplicating the various styles of horror
monsters. Certainly there are vampires, demons, mind-sucking aliens, and
the obligatory amorphous horror, but it's definitely geared toward
superhero-level games. The whole thing is followed up by a couple of
weakly-researched essays on Satanists and serial killers (neither
altogether useless, but neither as useful as it could be).
For as critical as the preceding paragraph was, it's not all bad; far
from it, in fact. The introduction, describing how to do horror stories in
various genres (and this book predated Horror Hero, BTW), is almost worth
the price of admission all by itself. If you do want real horror enemies
for a superhero or vigilante campaign (the latter generally needing a
mystic bent), there are plenty here, and the character write-ups definitely
live up to the highest standards of Hero Games' published enemies.
>* Corporations
This one is harder to call. I own it, of course, and it's one of my
favorite Champions sourcebooks. Others have loathed it, or at least not
found it especially useful.
Most of the twenty-six corporations listed in this book have ties to
other Champions Universe entities (sometimes more than one), and each has a
very usable adventure idea, often using under-utilized entities in the CU
and giving even more inspiration for adventures. There is also some useful
information on how corporations actually work, and how some of these
functions can be defined in Hero System terms. This is capped off with a
villain group, the Corporate Raiders, who work as corporate spies and
saboteurs for hire. I don't think anyone who uses the Champions Universe
extensively should afford to be without it, and those who like to mix and
match can find a lot of useful stuff as well.
>* Enemies for Hire
In the category of Good Ideas Executed Poorly, I'll put this one right
next to Champions Universe. Actually, "poorly" may be too strong of a
word; there are a number of truly useful and interesting characters in
here. The attempt at fleshing out the ranks of GRAB, if nothing else, is
laudable, and most of the characters toward that end are quite acceptable
(though the main exception to that is also the only male one; is that a
good thing for Black Claw, or not?). However, some of the characters fit
rather poorly into the Champions Universe continuity, and others are just
plain silly or stupid. So call it a mixed bag.
The Good Idea part, by the way, is the policy of putting each character
on a two-page spread, with the picture and UNTIL-provided information on
the first page (to the right) and the character sheet and GM's information
on the second page (to the left). The theory, I gather, was that the GM
could photocopy the first page and use it as a handout. Unfortunately, the
dividing line didn't always fall at the page break, so even this cool
innovation falls a bit flat.
>* Enemies Assemble
If this book had nothing other than the updates of the Ultimates and
Foxbat (with Exo-Skeleton Man and his "legion" of four agents), then it
would still be worth the price of admission. There are three other villain
groups in this book, however, each of which presents PCs with a different
challenge. So in spite of the absence of Foxbat's vehicles and some
relatively minor editing glitches with the Ultimates and one of the other
groups, I'd call this book a top-notch piece of work.
For that matter, one could probably buy just Champions and this book,
and have six villain groups (counting the Asesinos) to base an entire
campaign around.
>* Atlantis
The Hero Writers' Guidelines mentions something about writing in a way
that even someone who doesn't game can find it interesting reading.
Patrick Bradley has this practice down to an art form. Though you'd need
to understand Champions to fully understand Atlantis, it's a worthwhile
book even if you never use it in a game.
If you do want to use it in a game, though, you'll find a full history,
a map of the city and its environs, and a series of adventure seeds that
can be spread over a long period within the campaign to gradually bring
Atlantis from unknown entity to a member of the UN. Then there's a
bestiary of underwater creatures, an extra water-based supervillain group,
rules on running things underwater...
In short, it's one of the best things Hero Games has ever put out. It's
not perfect (what is?), but it's a model that other authors should follow.
>* Foxbat Unhinged
Here's where you can find write-ups of Foxbat's vehicles, though none of
his gang (from Enemies Assemble!) is around. You'll also find a pair of
outlandish scenarios featuring Foxbat (one of which goes into what happens
when he gets his hands on Alladdin's Lamp). These are two areas that are
lacking the Foxbat write-up in Enemies Assemble!, and I like to use this
book as an addendum to that.
It's definitely worth the money. Just be careful about who follows you
home after you buy it.
Nuff said.
Excelsior.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:20:58 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< My second-favorite Hero book Ever. Using the Ideas and companies in here
can potentially add a great deal to the plotting and believability of a
campaign.>>
(Talkes off publisher hat and puts on author hat) Yay, a fan! <LOL> Ebvene
after a few years, it's nice to hear good things about your work.
Mark Arsenault
Co-author, Corporations
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:22:57 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Watchers of the Dragon
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:11 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Does Watchers of the Dragon assume that you have Ultimate Martial Artist,
>freely using rules from that book?
Yes and no. It does use the rules, though most of the constructs are
described in enough detail that you can see how something should be managed
without necessarily having to refer to TUMA. Only a couple of the
characters really start to fall down (so to speak) without the other book.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:39:19 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:13 AM 4/9/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> >> > If understood it correctly, no fantasy hero setting not set in that
>> >> > world would be considered publishable.
>> >> Then you misunderstand what Steve Peterson has explained. He
clearly stated
>> >> that they could still publish unrelated genre books. They're not
limited to
>> >> only that timeline.
>> >>
>> > I know that's been stated now, but the thing did begin by saying
>> >'anyone who wants to publish for hero plus must read this'.
>>
>> I happen to still have Steve's original post, and in actuality he said
>> no such thing, nor anything even close. He did state that this is where
>
> This is a direct quote from the digital hero webpage:
>
>*********
>
>This Week (4/2/98):
>
> I managed to miss a couple of weeks of Digital Hero updates due to
computer
> shuffling and web redesign stuff. So, we're going to get back on
track with those
> weekly updates, starting with this week. Sorry about the interruption.
>
> 1.Conversion Corner: That family of adventurer-scientist-heroes, the
> Wilders, are here in all their 4th Edition glory.
> 2.The Hero Universe: If you want to know how Fantasy Hero, Justice
> Inc., Champions: New Millennium, and CyberHero all hang together,
> this article will tell you. Steve Peterson and Steve Long look
at the Hero
> Universe throughout the ages. This document is full of adventure
settings
> (and book ideas!). Note: If you are interested in writing for Hero
> Plus, you need to check this out!
>
>*****
> It's right there in the last line.
There's a subtle difference between "must" and "need to." The tone of
the web page statement indicated to me, from the start, that it was an
imperative rather than a directive. In other words, Bruce was urging any
prospective Hero Plus writers to look at this, since it was how they were
going to be operating the Hero Universe in the future.
When you start worrying that no non-Hero Universe stuff will be
accepted, just remind yourself of Bright Future and Broken Kingdoms. If
that doesn't work, send a query about a non-HU work and see what comes back.
(BTW Steve & Steve, when C:TNM first came out, most folks on the list
regarded the world described there as a separate world from the one we're
more familiar with, just as that other Steve guy did in his conversation
between the two Seekers. With Shelley's PRIMUS update coming up and my own
VOICE update now under way, it looks to me like you're going to be
continuing support of the old Champions Universe as well as the new Hero
Universe; am I right?)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:45:05 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sorry, I'm with Brian. I greatly prefer this method. 99.99% of my responses
go to the list, so this saves me a lot of trouble.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: CHAR: Devil Hunter Yohko
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:45:22 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Characteristics, defenses, etc. looked a little wimpy (IMHO)
but altogether very good! Like to see anime stuff on list!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:51:22 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:13 AM 4/9/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>
> (and book ideas!). Note: If you are interested in writing for Hero
> Plus, you need to check this out!
>
>*****
> It's right there in the last line.
>
I guess I'm more hype-immune than most. I interpret that last line along
the lines of "If you like pulse-pounding action, you need to see this
movie!". It's not like they said, "Any supplements not conforming to this
timeline will be summarily rejected and their authors added to Harbringers
'to do' list."
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 11:51:22 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:13 AM 4/9/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>
> (and book ideas!). Note: If you are interested in writing for Hero
> Plus, you need to check this out!
>
>*****
> It's right there in the last line.
>
I guess I'm more hype-immune than most. I interpret that last line along
the lines of "If you like pulse-pounding action, you need to see this
movie!". It's not like they said, "Any supplements not conforming to this
timeline will be summarily rejected and their authors added to Harbringers
'to do' list."
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:09:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'm using CompuServe, which may not have a sophisticated enough mail
> reader. I have a few other email addresses that would probably act as you
> describe, but this address is the most convenient for getting this mailing
> list.
Um, then get a better mail reader. Inferior software on the part
of some is no reason to penalize those that have their software set up to
do things the right way. There _is_ a PC port of pine that will handle
mail better than any of the commercial releases. And it's freeware.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1a.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1a.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.22
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com> wrote:
>
> Which is why it's easier to have the reply to go to the list, thus
> allowing the message to automaticly go to the list, and only the
list. Which
> can be changed manually on those rare messages that don't go to the
list.
>
I think this list has enough bogus, off-topic messages on it already.
Making it more difficult to take threads off-list is a poor
list-management decision, IMHO.
A prime example is this very thread. It has consumed far too much
list bandwidth already. I would have replied directly to you, but
hitting the reply button only gives the list address, and I am left
with the option of copying and pasting your email address into the To:
field instead.
Some may say I am just lazy for not doing that. And it's probably
true. But I think the bottom line is that there is a simple,
fundamental philosophical difference in this argument.
One side of the debate has no concern over the amount of list traffic
received that is little more than junk, while the other side of the
debate is looking to reduce that junk down to more relevant
conversation.
Maybe I am different from most people on the list. I end up getting
my 100+ champ-l emails, and then I have to sort the mailbox by
subject...primarily so I can summarily delete 75 of those messages
that are basically junk-threads. Call me whatever you want, but I
think that this is just a waste.
I have debated dropping the list many times because I get so tired of
having to sort mail on this list like it was a newsgroup. It's just
plain old annoying.
Maybe one of the folks on the "Reply-To-Lovers" side of the discussion
would be willing to start "moderating" this mailing list to weed out
the junk threads??? That would be a very acceptible compromise to the
debate, eh?
Jim
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:51:20 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob G reviewed:
>* Enemies for Hire
>The Good Idea part, by the way, is the policy of putting each character
>on a two-page spread, with the picture and UNTIL-provided information
>on the first page (to the right) and the character sheet and GM's
>information on the second page (to the left). The theory, I gather,
was
>that the GM could photocopy the first page and use it as a handout.
>Unfortunately, the dividing line didn't always fall at the page break,
>so even this cool innovation falls a bit flat.
As I remember, part of this was not under the creators' control,
however. All the post-it notes (that look so cool) weren't supposed to
be there. The notes are there to cover up text that ties to previous
characters, modules, etc. within the past suite of Champions products,
for some real interconnectedness. But many of the references had to be
removed, since the characters referenced were not under Hero's control
(published by Hero but outside the Champions Universe), so some of the
text comes off choppy or refers to backgrounds of other characters
within the book that got the relevant part post-it noted over.
Earlier drafts were much more cohesive and impressive. I say this not as
a shot against Hero's editing, but against the lack of understanding of
the Hero policy by the authors, who developed a wonderful product that
unfortunately wasn't quite suited as written.
Dave Mattingly
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: More book reviews, please
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:51:49 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
One of Pumas fav was "The Mutant File".
Very well done, including explanation of
just what mutants are. Could have used
mutant package deals (based what they
say all mutants/2nd gen. mutants have).
But, all in all, very good supplement. A
must have if you want run "mutie" game!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sungod.ccs.yorku.ca from duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca server [AH16zq2oyFAuOiIJ6oYK51muhrB7KYd9]@sungod.ccs.yorku.ca ip 130.63.236.104
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:57:25 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Duane Morris <duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
X-X-Sender: duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> > I'm using CompuServe, which may not have a sophisticated enough mail
> > reader. I have a few other email addresses that would probably act as you
> > describe, but this address is the most convenient for getting this mailing
> > list.
>
> Um, then get a better mail reader. Inferior software on the part
> of some is no reason to penalize those that have their software set up to
> do things the right way. There _is_ a PC port of pine that will handle
> mail better than any of the commercial releases. And it's freeware.
(:
And you can get it setup to ask if you want to the "Reply To:" field or
the "From:" field...
Duane.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Duane Morris <duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca> Dept. of Technical Services
Faculty of Pure and Applied Science Petrie Science Stores
York University, North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5244; Fax: (416) 736-5516
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.11
X-Sender: nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:58:05 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:09 PM 4/9/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> I'm using CompuServe, which may not have a sophisticated enough mail
>> reader. I have a few other email addresses that would probably act as you
>> describe, but this address is the most convenient for getting this mailing
>> list.
>
> Um, then get a better mail reader. Inferior software on the part
>of some is no reason to penalize those that have their software set up to
>do things the right way. There _is_ a PC port of pine that will handle
>mail better than any of the commercial releases. And it's freeware.
I don't have a strong opinion on the Reply to thing; I find the current
arrangement slightly more convenient than the way it's been in the past,
but I'm willing to consider the interests of others.
I do think, though, that the list _should_ make some allowances for those
of us with "inferior software." Not everyone on the list can have the
optimum mail utility, and it's often not a matter of choice, laziness, or
even ignorance. For example, I read my mail via three different set-ups in
the course of a typical day: using Eudora on my 8 year old Mac at home,
using Eudora on my office PC, and using a telnet connection to the
mainframe (an Alpha with a VMS operating system) from the reference desk
where I spend much of my work day. I'm satisfied with both versions of
Eudora, but the Alpha's mail utility leaves a lot to be desired and there's
nothing I can do about it. (Well, I could refrain from responding to the
list while I'm at work, but where's the fun in that?)
I'm sure there are others out there with more difficult circumstances than
mine; I think the list should make reasonable accomodations for those who
don't have access to the best hardware and software around.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:02:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,17-19,21-23,26-31
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>> You are right, it is silly. So is a mailing list that says I have
>to go
>> out of my way to properly direct my replies. I have better things
>to do
>> with my time.
>
> Which is why it's easier to have the reply to go to the list,
>thus
>allowing the message to automaticly go to the list, and only the list.
>Which
>can be changed manually on those rare messages that don't go to the
>list.
I disagree. I can keep one address (the list) either in my mind or my
mail-server's Address Book with no problem, so entering it is not a
difficulty. Sorting through the header, or chopping up the file to get
the
initial sender can be a pain.
I may differ from most people here, but most of my responses *are*
private
e-mail, not postings to the lists as a whole.
And, finally, I have Juno as my mail server. It is fairly limited (no
attachments, etc), but it does give me the choice of replying to the
sender or to the sender and
all recipients, which I can use to post to the list.
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp.ezy.net from rcole@ezy.net server @smtp.ezy.net ip 206.43.209.2
From: rcole@ezy.net (Ron Cole)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:03:27 -0400
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA02080
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Maybe one of the folks on the "Reply-To-Lovers" side of the discussion
>would be willing to start "moderating" this mailing list to weed out
>the junk threads??? That would be a very acceptible compromise to the
>debate, eh?
One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'd rather see the default reply-to
set to the list, mainly because that's the purpose of the list, a group
discussion. The ones that wish to take a discussion to private email should be
the ones to change the "to" field. What usually happens when its the other way
around is, the person being replied to gets 2 copies. The first one direct, and
then a second one when the person replying realises that he didn't send the
mailing list reply to the mailing list.
If the purpose of this list, is to have a group discussion about Hero related
topics, then the default should be to reply to the list. If the purpose of the
list was to announce your desire to have a private discussion about a Hero
topic, then the other way would be better.
Ron
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---"Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" wrote:
>
> One of Pumas fav was "The Mutant File".
> Very well done, including explanation of
> just what mutants are. Could have used
> mutant package deals (based what they
> say all mutants/2nd gen. mutants have).
> But, all in all, very good supplement. A
> must have if you want run "mutie" game!
Actually, I was a little disppointed in The Mutant File, I wanted much
more "meat" on Genocide (although it was nice to get an updated
writeup of the big robots).
Now, VIPER, on the other hand, was what I think an organization book
should be. Even if you never actually use VIPER in your games, there
is so much good "Hi-Tech Villian Organization" stuff it that's ts
still a good resource.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:28:16 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Put me down in the "Change it back" Camp as well.
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo id.sedl.org from tsang@id.sedl.org server tsang@id.sedl.org ip 198.213.9.2
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:30:16 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
(makes little actual difference to me, since I use /usr/ucb/Mail, which
ignores Reply-To:)
>One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'd rather see the default
>reply-to set to the list, mainly because that's the purpose of the list,
>a group discussion. The ones that wish to take a discussion to private
>email should be the ones to change the "to" field.
Uhh, the way it is, people with "smart" mailers have no way of picking up
the sender automatically, so they have to search, cut, and paste. The
other way, reply-to-all (followed by an optional deletion of the sender)
does the right thing. I mean, really, haven't you guys learned to do
that by default now?
>If the purpose of this list, is to have a group discussion about
>Hero related topics, then the default should be to reply to the list.
>If the purpose of the list was to announce your desire to have a private
>discussion about a Hero topic, then the other way would be better.
That's bogus; discussions should take place in public until they no
longer belong, then they should go private. The "old/standard" way does
that; the "new" way does not ("It's too much trouble to look up and type
the sender's email address -- I'll just send it to the list.")
Besides, there's historical trouble with expired/vacationing addresses
infinite looping with the Reply-To: set the "new" way. As I see it, the
*only* reason we should consider keeping the "new" way is because Rat
has threatened to leave... :) :) :)
Donald
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.139
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:39:44 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA04317
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> I'd call this one Above Average. Also, the title is a little
misleading; there's more attention to giving a sense of horror in a
superhero setting than to duplicating the various styles of horror
monsters. Certainly there are vampires, demons, mind-sucking aliens, and
the obligatory amorphous horror, but it's definitely geared toward
superhero-level games.<
When this book first came out, I was put off by it because I'm not into the
horror thing (that whole Worlds of Darkness thing just doesn't appeal to
me). However, I think it would be nice in a superhero campaign to have
these sorts of elements from time to time...heck, I've already used the
Demons Rule adventure anyway. Someone else said they didn't use this book
because they aren't into horror, but I see this book being used for an
adventure here and there--not a campaign focus. That's what Horror Hero is
for, which I have no interest in picking up.
>> This one is harder to call. I own it, of course, and it's one of my
favorite Champions sourcebooks. Others have loathed it, or at least not
found it especially useful.<<
The Bay City book for C:NM describes a lot of corporations in it's "60
pages about 30 things" section...how would you compare this to the
Corporations book?
>> If this book had nothing other than the updates of the Ultimates and
Foxbat (with Exo-Skeleton Man and his "legion" of four agents), then it
would still be worth the price of admission.<<
Sounds like Enemies Assemble should be added to my must-have list.
>> In short, it's one of the best things Hero Games has ever put out.
It's
not perfect (what is?), but it's a model that other authors should
follow.<<
You're the 2nd person to say such a thing, so I'd better look into
Atlantis.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-3.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-3.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.133
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:40:08 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA03916
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org
> I would strongly urge checking out our web page, and going to our
products
list. People keep mentioning "I think this is out of print," when clearly
it
isn't. For the record <G>, all of the books you listed are still available.
So
are a great many other 4th Ed books. All you have to do is go to the
source.
Why ask the "masses?" They may also be mistaken about the status of a
product.<
When I say a book is out of print, what I'm thinking is that it is no
longer being produced, and all that is left is what is sitting in the
warehouse--once that supply is gone, so is the book. I have checked both
the GRG page and the Hero page, and I have found several discrepancies as
to what is or isn't available. The one example I can think of right now is
The Olympians. The GRG page says it is no longer available, but the Hero
page is still selling it. I noted at a few other discrepancies like this,
but can't think of them right now. Anyway, in my mind "out of print" means
it might still be for sale but the well is running dry, whereas
"unavailable" means the well has already run dry. Using those definitions,
I think the majority of the books I listed are out of print. I'd be
delighted if I was wrong, though.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:41:31 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< All the post-it notes (that look so cool) weren't supposed to be there. The
notes are there to cover up text that ties to previous characters, modules,
etc... But many of the references had to be removed, since [they] were not
under Hero's control... >>
That was not my understanding at all. The text under the Post-it notes is in
some foreign language or gibberish which essentially means nothing of import
to the game or the book, AFAIK. That's an interesting theory, though. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Champions Discussion List" <champ-l@omg.org&>
"Darien Phoenix Lynx" <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 20:44:42
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:49:29 -0600 (CST), Darien Phoenix Lynx wrote:
>- The rules allow a character to dive for "cover" in order to take an
>attack destined for another character. But if it makes sense, and the
>characters are in the same hex, there's no reason not allow one character
>to block for another either. The sword, swinging down on the priest's
>head... (commerical break)... CLANG! The priest looks up to see the
>fighter's intervening blade, and breathes a sigh of relief.
Good idea, but make it same or adjacent hexes - even a shortsword has a
long reach when at the end of an outstretched arm - BUT put the
blocking character at a DCV penalty.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from qts@nildram.co.uk server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Champions Discussion List" <champ-l@omg.org&>
"Darien Phoenix Lynx" <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 20:44:42
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:49:29 -0600 (CST), Darien Phoenix Lynx wrote:
>- The rules allow a character to dive for "cover" in order to take an
>attack destined for another character. But if it makes sense, and the
>characters are in the same hex, there's no reason not allow one character
>to block for another either. The sword, swinging down on the priest's
>head... (commerical break)... CLANG! The priest looks up to see the
>fighter's intervening blade, and breathes a sigh of relief.
Good idea, but make it same or adjacent hexes - even a shortsword has a
long reach when at the end of an outstretched arm - BUT put the
blocking character at a DCV penalty.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:52:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> I do think, though, that the list _should_ make some allowances for those
> of us with "inferior software." Not everyone on the list can have the
> optimum mail utility, and it's often not a matter of choice, laziness, or
> even ignorance. For example, I read my mail via three different set-ups in
> the course of a typical day: using Eudora on my 8 year old Mac at home,
> using Eudora on my office PC, and using a telnet connection to the
> mainframe (an Alpha with a VMS operating system) from the reference desk
> where I spend much of my work day. I'm satisfied with both versions of
> Eudora, but the Alpha's mail utility leaves a lot to be desired and there's
> nothing I can do about it. (Well, I could refrain from responding to the
> list while I'm at work, but where's the fun in that?)
Hmm. What mail software is on the Alpha? Both Pine and Elm
support a reply-to and a reply-to-group. Most other mailing software does
the same. The options are already there.
By making the default to the individual, non-important discussion
is taken off-list. This is a *good* thing.
Also, as pointed out, setting the reply-to to the list _will_ lead
to problems when someone starts bouncing back at us. It's happened
before, it'll happen again.
> I'm sure there are others out there with more difficult circumstances than
> mine; I think the list should make reasonable accomodations for those who
> don't have access to the best hardware and software around.
That's fine. If they have to, they can make a nickname for the
list, say "chl", and type that into their address field. Nothing is
stopping them from e-mailing the list. However, it is easier to remember
a list address to type in than any possible individual address to type in.
Off the top of my head, I couldn't say any of your addresses.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.132
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:56:04 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA04780
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Tim Gilberg
> Um, then get a better mail reader. Inferior software on the part
>of some is no reason to penalize those that have their software set up to
>do things the right way. There _is_ a PC port of pine that will handle
>mail better than any of the commercial releases. And it's freeware.
-sigh- I think you have me confused with someone who was whining. I
distinctly remember typing "I'll adapt" when I was pointing out that the
old way worked better with this particular mail reader (I have other mail
readers which would handle things properly).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:22:17 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< When I say a book is out of print, what I'm thinking is that it is no
longer being produced, and all that is left is what is sitting in the
warehouse >>
But that can be said about every single product that is ever produced.
<< --once that supply is gone, so is the book. >>
But it's not out of print until there is no more stock and there is no
reprint. Just FYI. ;)
<< I have checked both the GRG page and the Hero page, and I have found
several discrepancies as to what is or isn't available. The one example I can
think of right now is The Olympians. The GRG page says it is no longer
available, but the Hero
page is still selling it. >>
Please bear in mind that the inventory that we carry is not the same
inventory that Hero Game sis selling. Hero Games has a separate (albeit
usually smaller) inventory of 4th Ed books that they sell through their Hero
Plus line. We have a much bigger stock (in most cases) because we are the ones
who sell them to distributors. When we run out of an item, we're out. But
sometimes (as you noted) Hero Games still has some copies available. Si I
guess I'd have to suggest you check both places. Either way, you can't lose.
If either of us has what ytou're looking for you win. :D
<< ...in my mind "out of print" means it might still be for sale but the well
is running dry, whereas "unavailable" means the well has already run dry. >>
In the publishing biz, "out of print" refers to a product that is no longer
available from the publisher (i.e., sold out with no reprint planned). It may
very well still be available at other levels of the market (including
distributors or retailers).
As an example, our recent "Usagi Yojimbo RPG" has just recently "sold out."
But you can still buy it in stores, and stores can still order it through
their distributor. Once that supply is exhausted then the book is "temporarily
unavailable," or on haiatus if you will. ;)
But because we are planning a reprint of the Usagi RPG, the book is not
listed as out of print. If we were to tell distributors that it weas out of
print, they would delete it from their databases and never, ever order it
again. We certainly don't want that. ;)
So I hope you can understand why I jumped up when I saw "out of print."
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: LIST OWNER, PLEASE REPLY (was: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
---Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> wrote:
>As I see it, the
> *only* reason we should consider keeping the "new" way is because Rat
> has threatened to leave... :) :) :)
ROFLMAO!!!!!
[recovering composure]
The bottom line here is what the list-owner's point of view is. An
official statement would be appropriate at this point, so that we know
if Rat's leaving or not, and we can plan ahead for the party. ;-)
So what so you, list owner? Is the Reply-To thing staying, or no?
Jim
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp.ezy.net from rcole@ezy.net server @smtp.ezy.net ip 206.43.209.2
From: rcole@ezy.net (Ron Cole)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:38:13 -0400
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id RAA06730
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Uhh, the way it is, people with "smart" mailers have no way of picking up
>the sender automatically, so they have to search, cut, and paste. The
>other way, reply-to-all (followed by an optional deletion of the sender)
>does the right thing. I mean, really, haven't you guys learned to do
>that by default now?
That's weird, my mailer must be ultra-smart then, because when I hit reply, it
defaulted to the "reply-to" field, which makes sense, but in the pull down menu
next to it, I had the option of replying to:
"Reply-to: champ-l@sysabend.org"
"From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>&q>
"Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org"
"To: champ-l@sysabend.org"
This would seem to be the ideal setup to me. When I reply to email from the
list, it defaults to the list, and if I want to change it, its easy enough. As
I said before, this is a group discussion list, the default reply should go back
to the list.
Ron
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server @shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> >Maybe one of the folks on the "Reply-To-Lovers" side of the discussion
> >would be willing to start "moderating" this mailing list to weed out
> >the junk threads??? That would be a very acceptible compromise to the
> >debate, eh?
>
> One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'd rather see the default reply-to
> set to the list, mainly because that's the purpose of the list, a group
> discussion. The ones that wish to take a discussion to private email should be
> the ones to change the "to" field.
Exactly.
> What usually happens when its the other way
> around is, the person being replied to gets 2 copies.
> The first one direct, and then a second one when the person replying
> realises that he didn't send the mailing list reply to the mailing list.
I've lost at least 4 messages meant for the group from this one.
I, like others, use multiple email programs. Right now I'm at a terminal with
a telnet session. I don't have the wonderful stuff many others have. Other time
I have a choice of elm or pine on a Unix machine. I take elm as pine, at least
that machine's version; won't let me change my editor to vi. At home I have
the luxury of netscape mail.
In some of these applications, in the old days, if I didn't remember to
add in the group, I never saw my message. So if I sent it the wrong way and
the person I sent it to didn't feel like fowarding it back, it was lost.
> If the purpose of this list, is to have a group discussion about Hero related
> topics, then the default should be to reply to the list. If the purpose of the
> list was to announce your desire to have a private discussion about a Hero
> topic, then the other way would be better.
Precisely.
Rook ?U ?k 1b 'no giga pets were harmed in the production of this message'.
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Roleplay
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out2.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out2.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.229
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 21:50:27
Subject: Re: LIST OWNER, PLEASE REPLY (was: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:30:49 -0700 (PDT), Sharky Dangerthorn wrote:
>The bottom line here is what the list-owner's point of view is. An
>official statement would be appropriate at this point, so that we know
>if Rat's leaving or not, and we can plan ahead for the party. ;-)
>
>So what so you, list owner? Is the Reply-To thing staying, or no?
To be perfectly honest, I have (gasp!) no opinion at all on it, so I'm quite willing to live
with whatever folks want. Unfortunately, its now become a point of great contention
among several folks on the list.
The History of "the change"
Sometime around a week ago (I think), the listserver farckled. I had to rebuild the
config from memory. When the list was first set up, the REPLY-TO thing was off, but I
didn't remember this; so (being as I was working from my office instead of home where I
could actually look at an old message header) I guessed: when I rebuilt the config I set
the REPLY-TO thing to on, and prompty forgot about the whole mess. I actually didn't
know I had set it up differently from what it was until someone wrote thanking me for the
change - at this point, I looked at the header to an old post and saw that the REPLY-TO
field had previously NOT been populated, but, since no one had complained, I just
decided to leave it. Now however, we have THE GREAT REPLY-TO DEBACLE.
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:51:51 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Organization: Red Bow Antiques
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Fuzion to Hero
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I am a huge fan of Bubblegum Crisis and am trying to convert it back to
4th edition. However, I have ran into what I feel is a snag. In one of
the Fuzion books it states:
Fuzion Personal Armor KD 1-50: KD equals Hero resistant PD.
This means that something with a KD of 45 has a Resistant PD of 45!!
That seems outrageous to me. Even if I hit it with a 7d6RKA I won't even
be denting it. Is this a misprint?
Also, have you noticed that only the Hero Games website has conversions
from Fuzion to Hero System? Every one else has Hero System to Fuzion.
I am looking for numbers on how to convert Fuzion SDP, KD, Armor, and
Kills into Hero System. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No matter how pararnoid you are you are never paranoid enough.
---Susan Modeski, X-files
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out2.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out2.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.229
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 22:02:13
Subject: Re: LIST OWNER, PLEASE REPLY (was: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
p.s.
For those interested, at the moment the voting is just about dead even (with a fairly
small number of votes cast period, about 24 total), so apparently the list as a whole
doesn't really have much opinion either.
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Wounded Penalties?
To: champ-l@omg.org (champions listserv)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:29:00 -0400 (EDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
time swinging your two-handed sword...
If this is not in the rules, does anyone have any optional
rules that they use in their own campaign that they would
be willing to share? Much thanks...
-Eric
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.nai.net from jrc@mail1.nai.net server @mail1.nai.net ip 208.133.174.65
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:30:43 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
I like replying directly to the list. It saves me a fair amount of cut and
pasting of addresses. And Eudora Lite doesn't have a "Reply-To" command.
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Fuzion to Hero
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
bobby farris writes:
> I am a huge fan of Bubblegum Crisis and am trying to convert it back to
> 4th edition. However, I have ran into what I feel is a snag. In one of
> the Fuzion books it states:
> Fuzion Personal Armor KD 1-50: KD equals Hero resistant
> PD.
>
> This means that something with a KD of 45 has a Resistant PD of 45!!
> That seems outrageous to me. Even if I hit it with a 7d6RKA I won't even
> be denting it. Is this a misprint?
Nah, it's a side effect of Fuzion being somewhat broken -- in particular,
Kills-based damage and DC-based damage are incompatible, because one is
basically linear, the other is basically logarithmic.
>
> Also, have you noticed that only the Hero Games website has
> conversions from Fuzion to Hero System? Every one else has Hero System to
> Fuzion. I am looking for numbers on how to convert Fuzion SDP, KD,
> Armor, and Kills into Hero System. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Depends if you're starting from one of the CNM books or one of the anime books.
The standard conversion rules work pretty well for CNM books, _except_ that
resistant defenses should be divided by 2 or 3. For any of the books which use
Kills-based damage, I suggest the following:
Dice = 10log10(Kills)+10, or 10log10(dice)-1.
Armor = 10log10(Kills)+12, or 10log10(KD)-5. Add a PD bonus equal to Armor/2.
Body = 10log10(Kills)+12, or 10log10(SDP)-5.
PD: BBC is heroic, not superheroic. Halve PD.
For those who don't memorize common logarithms (;)) this works out to:
Def/Bod KD/SDP Kills Def/Bod KD/SDP Kills
Def/Bod KD/SDP Kills
1 4 .08 11 40 0.8 21 400
8
2 5 .1 12 50 1.0 22 500
10
3 6 .125 13 62 1.25 23 620
12.5
4 8 .16 14 80 1.6 24 800
16
5 10 .2 15 100 2.0 25 1000
20
6 13 .25 16 126 2.5 26 1260
25
7 16 .32 17 160 3.2 27 1600
32
8 20 .4 18 200 4.0 28 2000
40
9 25 .5 19 250 5.0 29 2500
50
10 32 .63 20 315 6.3 30 3100
62
For Dice, subtract 2. Round up. You might want to call 1 DEF 2 KD, 2 DEF 4
KD, instead of these numbers, but you rarely have numbers that small, so it
isn't a big issue.
This means the early BBC mecha (around 0.9 kills) would be around 12 def, 12
body; big attacks are usually 1.1-1.5 Kills, working out to 11 or 12 DC
(3.5-4d6K).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:33:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Devil Hunter Yohko
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> Characteristics, defenses, etc. looked a little wimpy (IMHO)
> but altogether very good! Like to see anime stuff on list!
Well... the orginal version had a 15 STR and 26 DEX, but after watching my
tapes I realized that she just wasn't *that* strong of fast.
As for defenses, she has a 10 PD, 3 DEF armor and 1/4 Damage Reduction...
what more do you want?
Beisdes, the monsters she fights don't look to be all that powerful,
physically (at least in terms of DEX & SPD).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: COM rules [Really Long!]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:34:56 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
These are the COM rules from my house rules!
Puma raise shields to deflect anticipated flames! ^_^;
Comeliness:
When a target sees an attractive (high COM)
member of the opposite sex (the attacker), the attacker should make a
comeliness roll. The roll is made using 1D6 for every 5 points in
comeliness the attacker has. The damage on the roll is totaled and
applied against the target's EGO. Results are determined from the chart
shown below:
COMELINESS EFFECTS
Damage is greater than: Effect:
Target's EGO Target finds the attacker attractive.
Will grant attacker requests that target is inclined to perform anyway.
Target will hesitate enough so that the attacker may act before the
target this phase. +1D6 to PRE attacks vs. target. +1 to PRE based
skills vs. target.
Target's EGO +10 Target is enamored. Thinks
attacker is friendly unless shown otherwise. Will tend to believe any
reasonable thing attacker says. Will grant attacker requests that target
wouldn't mind doing. Target will hesitate as above, and only performs a
half phase action during the COM attack's phase. +2D6 to PRE attacks vs.
target. +2 to PRE based skills vs. target.
Target's EGO +20 Target is infatuated. Thinks
attacker is a very nice person. Will believe most things the attacker
says unless shown proof otherwise. Will not fight attacker unless shown
it's necessary. Will grant attacker requests that target would normally
not do (EGO roll to resist at -1 per 5 points of damage over EGO + 20
level). Target will hesitate 1 full phase and is at half DCV. +3D6 to
PRE attacks vs. target. +3 to PRE based skills vs. target.
Target's EGO +30 Target is in love with attacker.
Will believe whatever attacker says without question. Will grant
attacker requests that go against target's nature (EGO roll to resist,
at -1 per 5 points of damage over EGO + 30 level). Target will hesitate
indefinitely and is at DCV 0. +4D6 to PRE attacks vs. target. +4 to PRE
based skills vs. target.
Example:
Mrs. Daicon has a COM of 40. She walks
up to a (male) clerk in the reception area of a hero group's base. The
clerk has an EGO of 10. Mrs. Daicon rolls 8D6 for her COM and gets a 31.
That's at the EGO +20 level, so the clerk assumes the babe in the bunny
motif costume is some sort of hero (i.e. a nice person, even though he's
never seen or heard of her). Also, he doesn't think twice when he
answers her question about whether the heroes are in (if she wanted more
important info, like what Nuclear Man's weakness is, the clerk could
resist telling her with a successful EGO roll). If Mrs. Daicon wanted to
use her seduction skill on him (its at 15-), she'd get +3, making it
18-. If she made a PRE attack on him, she'd get +3D6. Lucky for him (and
the heroes) Mrs. Daicon is a new hero and not a new villain!
Even though these effects can be powerful, they
are not near as effective as mind controls of the same level. Comeliness
attacks work more like PRE attacks than mind controls, except that EGO
is used (instead of PRE) to resist them. The maximum comeliness effect
level is about equivalent to a PRE +30 PRE attack, except it is more
manipulative than a PRE attack and less disabling (target won't faint,
run away in panic, etc.). If you want to make people jump off of
buildings, use mind control, a COM attack won't be powerful enough (in
most cases).
These effects can be altered by psychological
limitations and situations just as with PRE attacks. For example, if a
character has a reputation for being devious, its COM effect level
should be lowered if a target makes the reputation roll (see PRE attack
section in the rules book for more examples). PRE defense and Special
Damage Reduction reduce the damage done by a COM attack.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:41:41 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:45 AM 4/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Sorry, I'm with Brian. I greatly prefer this method. 99.99% of my responses
>go to the list, so this saves me a lot of trouble.
But do all those responses really *need* to go to the list, giving the rest
of us more to delete?
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 18:08:00 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Book Reviews (if you could?) Almanac I & II, E4E, Western HERO
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Could anyone here critique the HERO Almanac I and II, An Eye for an Eye,
and Western HERO for me? I'm most interested in variants on Limitations,
Disadvantages, Advantages, Perks, and any other rules within said tomes.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:20:54 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>One of Pumas fav was "The Mutant File".
>Very well done, including explanation of
>just what mutants are. Could have used
>mutant package deals (based what they
>say all mutants/2nd gen. mutants have).
>But, all in all, very good supplement. A
>must have if you want run "mutie" game!
You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
Enemies. 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? And most of the character
writeups were similarly over-powered to the extreme. The biker gang was the
only redeeming bit...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:28:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Book Reviews (if you could?) Almanac I & II, E4E, Western
HERO
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:08 PM 4/9/1998 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>Could anyone here critique the HERO Almanac I and II, An Eye for an Eye,
>and Western HERO for me? I'm most interested in variants on Limitations,
>Disadvantages, Advantages, Perks, and any other rules within said tomes.
Here's what I have to say about them:
HSA1: This book is dominated by the Spirit Rules (which also appear
more-or-less intanct in Horror Hero). These rules have been derided more
than they've been praised, though I lean more toward the latter camp
myself. If one takes just the definition of a Spirit and no more of the
rest than is absolutely needed (including most of the rules on containers
and the Shift Spirit Power), then I think one would have a quite workable
system. (Add the Switch Spirit power from Chris Avellone's contribution to
Heroic Adventures Volume 1 to round it out.) Superleap with No Skill Roll,
the new forms of Area Effect, the Restrainable Limitation, and revised Time
Chart are also great; the rules on Negative Characteristics and Usable On
Others need work, but are a good start for their respective concerns.
There are also some stuff from old Adventurers' Clubs (which would
probably have been much better of translated from 3rd Edition to 4th), and
write-ups of the original Captain Australia, his epynomynous
sister/successor, and their arch-nemisis Entropi. Rounding out the
selection are bits on Average Combat Capabilities (which I think should be
included as part of the 5th Edition rulebook) and a random superhero team
name generator.
In all, a cool book. If your budget's tight, don't worry about it, but
it's worth the price overall.
HSA2: A considerable improvement over the first effort. Steve Long has
some nice expansions of Requires a Skill Roll (some of which found its way
into TUSV) and Sense Powers, and Steve Peterson did some work on drugs and
Change Environment. Write-ups of a typical Army soldier and a couple of
tanks, along with updates of UNTIL and SAT (the latter is now a private
organization called World Security Services) make this a must-buy for
anyone using the Champions Universe. The rest is more entertaining than
useful, though entertaining it certainly is.
An Eye For An Eye: Though billed as an expansion of Dark Champions,
this is a sourcebook that can apply to many four-color characters as well.
A lot of the new rules and law enforcement/military package deals are
probably more applicable to street-level superheroes (like Batman).
There's also sections on criminal psychology, advanced forensics, and drugs
(a more extensive write-up than Steve's in HSA2), along with a sourcebook
with more weapons and gadgets than you can shake a stick at. And then
there's the update of Raven... in short, unless you're playing a strictly
four-color Champions campaign -- and maybe even if it is -- this can be a
very handy book to have.
Western Hero: If you're primarily after new rules, you might just skip
this one; its real strength is in the setting. At that, it focuses on
"realistic" Western settings and shuns "Wild West" type stories.
Other than these two weaknesses (and the first isn't really a weakness,
since there wasn't really a lot needed in the way of new rules to do
Westerns), it's an excellent book, though. I haven't seen a lot of Western
RPG rules books, but this is the game I'd recommend for anyone wanting to
do one.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:28:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Book Reviews (if you could?) Almanac I & II, E4E, Western
HERO
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:08 PM 4/9/1998 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>Could anyone here critique the HERO Almanac I and II, An Eye for an Eye,
>and Western HERO for me? I'm most interested in variants on Limitations,
>Disadvantages, Advantages, Perks, and any other rules within said tomes.
Here's what I have to say about them:
HSA1: This book is dominated by the Spirit Rules (which also appear
more-or-less intanct in Horror Hero). These rules have been derided more
than they've been praised, though I lean more toward the latter camp
myself. If one takes just the definition of a Spirit and no more of the
rest than is absolutely needed (including most of the rules on containers
and the Shift Spirit Power), then I think one would have a quite workable
system. (Add the Switch Spirit power from Chris Avellone's contribution to
Heroic Adventures Volume 1 to round it out.) Superleap with No Skill Roll,
the new forms of Area Effect, the Restrainable Limitation, and revised Time
Chart are also great; the rules on Negative Characteristics and Usable On
Others need work, but are a good start for their respective concerns.
There are also some stuff from old Adventurers' Clubs (which would
probably have been much better of translated from 3rd Edition to 4th), and
write-ups of the original Captain Australia, his epynomynous
sister/successor, and their arch-nemisis Entropi. Rounding out the
selection are bits on Average Combat Capabilities (which I think should be
included as part of the 5th Edition rulebook) and a random superhero team
name generator.
In all, a cool book. If your budget's tight, don't worry about it, but
it's worth the price overall.
HSA2: A considerable improvement over the first effort. Steve Long has
some nice expansions of Requires a Skill Roll (some of which found its way
into TUSV) and Sense Powers, and Steve Peterson did some work on drugs and
Change Environment. Write-ups of a typical Army soldier and a couple of
tanks, along with updates of UNTIL and SAT (the latter is now a private
organization called World Security Services) make this a must-buy for
anyone using the Champions Universe. The rest is more entertaining than
useful, though entertaining it certainly is.
An Eye For An Eye: Though billed as an expansion of Dark Champions,
this is a sourcebook that can apply to many four-color characters as well.
A lot of the new rules and law enforcement/military package deals are
probably more applicable to street-level superheroes (like Batman).
There's also sections on criminal psychology, advanced forensics, and drugs
(a more extensive write-up than Steve's in HSA2), along with a sourcebook
with more weapons and gadgets than you can shake a stick at. And then
there's the update of Raven... in short, unless you're playing a strictly
four-color Champions campaign -- and maybe even if it is -- this can be a
very handy book to have.
Western Hero: If you're primarily after new rules, you might just skip
this one; its real strength is in the setting. At that, it focuses on
"realistic" Western settings and shuns "Wild West" type stories.
Other than these two weaknesses (and the first isn't really a weakness,
since there wasn't really a lot needed in the way of new rules to do
Westerns), it's an excellent book, though. I haven't seen a lot of Western
RPG rules books, but this is the game I'd recommend for anyone wanting to
do one.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:32:28 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:34 PM 4/9/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> These are the COM rules from my house rules!
> Puma raise shields to deflect anticipated flames! ^_^;
No flames from this corner. I like it. It's finally something concrete
that can be done with COM.
I'd only make two substantial alterations. The first is that the
attacker has to declare a COM Attack to do it, unless the target has some
Psychological Limitation or other reason for an automatic effect. Also,
bonus dice should be available for special circumstances, though because
COM is so much cheaper than PRE they should be harder to come by.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo darius.concentric.net from cypriot@concentric.net server @darius.concentric.net ip 207.155.184.79
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:32:46 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:29 PM 4/9/98 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
>at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
>been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
>seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
>time swinging your two-handed sword...
>
Check the optional rules on Impairment. In general, if the
character got to 1 BODY via one nasty hit, there's something
on his body that no longer functions properly. If he was
whittled down with a series of 1 BODY nicks and scratches,
he's probably alright, but will be seriously sore in the
morning.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo darius.concentric.net from cypriot@concentric.net server @darius.concentric.net ip 207.155.184.79
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:34:20 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Reply = Reply To All ?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Personally, I don't give a damn. After I hit the Reply
button, I actually CHECK to see where my e-mail is going.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:36:48 -0700
To: champ-l@omg.org (champions listserv)
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:29 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
>at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
>been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
>seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
>time swinging your two-handed sword...
>
>If this is not in the rules, does anyone have any optional
>rules that they use in their own campaign that they would
>be willing to share? Much thanks...
About the only thing I can find is the Impairing/Disabling option that
goes with the Hit Location Chart (HSR page 162-164).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:15:18 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
----------
> From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Hero Universe
> Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 3:17 AM
>
> At 12:41 AM 4/10/98 +1000, happyelf wrote:
> >
> >> >
> >> > I never heard anything about Battletech being related (never read
much
> >> > of the game), but I do remember something about Earthdawn and
> >> > Shadowrun being related somehow (heck, just look at the critters in
> >> > each, lots of duplicates).
> >>
> >> I don't know if Battletech was said or not, but the world would
> >> fit just fine with the other two. Magic would just have receeded
again.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >*drool* anyone for awakened mechs? TELL me that isn't a cool idea. .
>
> (Sing)"We wish to welcome you to Munchkin Land!"(/Sing)
>
> It's 20 meters tall, covered with ultrahardium armor, carriers enough
> missiles to destroy a city...and it's sentient and casts spells. How many
> smegging points is THAT worth?
>
> (Hmmm...excpet for the spells, that would pretty much describe a
> Transformer, so maybe it isn't so Munchkin...)
well if i pay heaps of points for it, it isn't munchkinny at all, yes?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:22:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> This would seem to be the ideal setup to me. When I reply to email from the
> list, it defaults to the list, and if I want to change it, its easy enough. As
> I said before, this is a group discussion list, the default reply should go back
> to the list.
Actually, no. A group discussion list places itself as merely a
waystation for the mail. It still should be from the various individuals.
You may think you have some common sense on your side, but it's a false
common sense disproven by years of internet mailing lists.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo newenglandpc.net from warren@newenglandpc.net server @209.188.41.226 ip 209.188.41.226
From: "Warren E Henderson III" <warren@newenglandpc.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 00:27:47
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
Ummm, I missed the first part of this debate. Is the problem hitting
reply, on some software packages, now causes the message to go to the
list, rather than the author of the message?
Warren
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo phil.digitaladvantage.net from badtodd@dacmail.net server @phil.digitaladvantage.net ip 207.40.157.13
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:35:32 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Eric Chauvin wrote:
> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
> files to the Hero E-mail list.
> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
Eric,
I would be interested in seeing something like this!
Todd
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:37:58 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: GREAT List of 4-color conventions...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
This grew out of a thread on the GURPS list. A wonderful collection
of the unspoken assumption and cliches of 4 color. A good way to add
that '4 color' feeling to your game, or, if you're aiming for a more
realistic game, what NOT to do.
I did not write or compile this, though I did contribute a few items.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/5751/4color.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNS1p5jKf8mIpTvjWEQJ2uwCg1RCXfwCfLY7zO0EFNenYB8rUzcwAniRE
tmifjkEJk8MPgnvnwGvmDm3n
=L5U0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:42:18 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:20 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>One of Pumas fav was "The Mutant File".
>>Very well done, including explanation of
>>just what mutants are. Could have used
>>mutant package deals (based what they
>>say all mutants/2nd gen. mutants have).
>>But, all in all, very good supplement. A
>>must have if you want run "mutie" game!
>
>You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
>Enemies. 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? And most of the character
>writeups were similarly over-powered to the extreme. The biker gang was the
>only redeeming bit...
There's more to a character's power than just points. Let's compare the
actual capabilities of a Genocide Pawn vs a VIPER agent:
Pawn VIPER
DEX 15 15
SPD 3 3
DC (R) 9 9
DC (H) 7.5 7*
DC (S) 16 18
nrDEF 15 9
rDEF 5 6
For DCs, I evaluated the Ranged damage for a standard weapon,
Hand-to-hand damage, and damage from Special weapons. *Only VIPER Unarmed
Combat Specialists are really adept at hand-to-hand combat.
Now, certainly one Genocide Pawn is more powerful than one VIPER Agent,
but not like you'd expect for 268 points vs 100 points. Beginning-level
Seeker could probably pound a Pawn into the ground without working up too
much of a sweat. The true guage of power isn't just raw points, but where
those points are spent.
Pawns carry multiple weapons, paying full cost for each (rather than
taking the option, introduced somewhat later, of putting multiple weapons
into a single Multipower). They also have points spent in stuff like
Martial Arts, and even a motion detector. These things suck up points,
making a character more versatile but less powerful overall for a
deceptively high cost.
As for the other characters, they're only overpowered if you use them en
masse for a team-vs-team fight. The IMAGE characters should be used only
one or two at a time, with low-powered backup, at least until you're ready
to get rid of the organization; only then should you have the PCs face the
leadership as a group. Catastrophe is meant to be foiled, not captured.
And don't even think about sending PCs against Genocide's higher-ups unless
they're powerful *and* experienced.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:49:00 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding at physical
actions while wounded in the Champs rules? >>
Pp. 162-1677 is the only relevant section I could find. :/
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo newenglandpc.net from warren@newenglandpc.net server @209.188.41.226 ip 209.188.41.226
From: "Warren E Henderson III" <warren@newenglandpc.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 00:51:38
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:22:21 -0500 (CDT), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> Actually, no. A group discussion list places itself as merely a
>waystation for the mail. It still should be from the various individuals.
>You may think you have some common sense on your side, but it's a false
>common sense disproven by years of internet mailing lists.
Huh? You lost me. A group discussion list should be a place for you
to post mail to an individual that you wouldn't mind others reading is
how your statement above comes across to me. I am pretty sure I am
just
being dense but what do you mean?
Warren
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo phil.digitaladvantage.net from badtodd@dacmail.net server @phil.digitaladvantage.net ip 207.40.157.13
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:53:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers (was Re: Reply = Reply To All ?)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> Personally, this is the one thing that will make me leave the list.
well, that's reason enough for me to vote that we leave it the way it
is.
If ratboy wants to take his toys and go home, I guess I'll just have to
live without his rude, condescending and inflamatory contributions to
the list.
insert a smiley if it makes you feel better.
Todd
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo13.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo13.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.35
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:11:46 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
<< 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? >>
Sheer point toals should not be the determining factor on whether a
character is reasonable or not. For "Law & Order," I have been developing some
police packages, and let me tell you... a "regular street cop" has close to
200 points... and that's with Characteristic Stat Maxima! But a 200 point
superhero could dust them in no time flat (most of the points are in skills).
So don't wrinkle your nose at the points just because there are a lot of them.
Consider how they are spent.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 18:20:16 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:20 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>One of Pumas fav was "The Mutant File".
>>Very well done, including explanation of
>>just what mutants are. Could have used
>>mutant package deals (based what they
>>say all mutants/2nd gen. mutants have).
>>But, all in all, very good supplement. A
>>must have if you want run "mutie" game!
>
>You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
>Enemies. 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? And most of the character
>writeups were similarly over-powered to the extreme. The biker gang was the
>only redeeming bit...
I concur, I thought The Mutant File ranked right up there with oh, High Tech
Enemies for most useless supplement. My biggest annoyance was the mutant
working in Genocide... like a virulently anti mutant organization wouldnt
EVER notice that (nothing is detect proof).
However, the icing on the cake is the huge self aware robots. Not only are
they silly and self defeating (try to hide a 3 story robot flying off
somewhere), it doesn't fit the profile of the Genocide people. If humanity
is the zenith of creation, why use machines that are intelligent?
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:45:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> I concur, I thought The Mutant File ranked right up there with oh, High Tech
> Enemies for most useless supplement. My biggest annoyance was the mutant
> working in Genocide... like a virulently anti mutant organization wouldnt
> EVER notice that (nothing is detect proof).
I find it very interesting that Sean Fannon wrote both of these books. I
beleive that part of the problem stems from the fact that Sean is noted
for running an 'unlmited' points game, where the characters were as
expensive as the player wanted. Sean appreantly thinks *everyone* runs
games at this power level and wrote his books accordingly.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:47:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? >>
>
> Sheer point toals should not be the determining factor on whether a
> character is reasonable or not. For "Law & Order," I have been developing some
> police packages, and let me tell you... a "regular street cop" has close to
> 200 points... and that's with Characteristic Stat Maxima! But a 200 point
> superhero could dust them in no time flat (most of the points are in skills).
> So don't wrinkle your nose at the points just because there are a lot of them.
> Consider how they are spent.
I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game, it was
discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
200 points real fast. 75% of that would be skills, and the character
would probably fold like a house of cards to your average 250 point super.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.airmail.net from ghoyle1@airmail.net server @mail.airmail.net ip 206.66.12.40
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:06:54 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id VAA18189
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
On 4/9/98, at 7:52 PM, Todd Hanson wrote:
>Eric Chauvin wrote:
>
>> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
>> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
>> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
>> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
>> files to the Hero E-mail list.
>> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
>> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
>
>
>Eric,
>
>I would be interested in seeing something like this!
Me, too!
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:29:17 -0500
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-26
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:34:56 -0500 "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA"
<andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com> writes:
> These are the COM rules from my house rules!
> Puma raise shields to deflect anticipated flames! ^_^;
>
> Comeliness:
> When a target sees an attractive (high COM)
>member of the opposite sex (the attacker), the attacker should make a
>comeliness roll. The roll is made using 1D6 for every 5 points in
>comeliness the attacker has. The damage on the roll is totaled and
>applied against the target's EGO. Results are determined from the
>chart
>shown below:
<<--snipped-->>
No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
I normally add 1d6 for every 5 pts of COM above 10 to appropriate PRE
attacks.
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo15.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo15.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.37
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:32:36 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: BruceHH@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
In a message dated 4/9/98 10:22:48 AM, you wrote:
> Note: If you are interested in writing for Hero
> Plus, you need to check this out!
Bruce wrote that, not me. His intent was to alert authors to the Hero
Universe, not to restrict them to writing only for the Hero Universe. Since
the line is subject to misinterpretation, I'll make sure he changes it so that
it's clearer.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:33:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-15,17,19-24
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Eric Burns
<burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu> writes:
>Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
>at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
>been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
>seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
>time swinging your two-handed sword...
>
>If this is not in the rules, does anyone have any optional
>rules that they use in their own campaign that they would
>be willing to share? Much thanks...
It wouldn't be difficult to swipe from GURPS and have a -1 on all skills
(and OCV) for the wounded character's next phase. Long term, a -1 to
physical skills at 1/2 Body, and -2 at 1 or less could be used, but it
might
not be good to go beyond that unless you're running a 'realistic'
campaign.
Many heroes in fiction seem to continue quite well even when wounded.
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:37:03 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
<< I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game, it was
discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
200 points real fast.>>
I came up with a total even higher than that. And let's not talk about given
them a separate Martial Arts Style package for each appropriate weapon (as per
UMA)! <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:42:40 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
<< Wow, I take it this is "not your father's Package Deal" >>
Actually I wasn't clear (I had two thoughts running in my head at the same
time). The extra Packages themselves (the SWAT package, the EOD package, the
Jailer package, etc.) are like 5-15 Pts each. It's the very Basic Package (a
rookie cop freash out of the academy) that costs a whopping 30 Pts (not
counting stats and background skills), IIRC, and the total characters that
cost so much.
<< I'm afraid if you already told me, I've forgotten: when is "Law & Order"
expected? >>
I'm hoping to finish the writing on it by the end of the summer. But we have
a number of other projects ahead of it right now that are keeping me tres
busy.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:44:13 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
In a message dated 4/9/98 12:52:37 PM, you wrote:
>When I say a book is out of print, what I'm thinking is that it is no
>longer being produced, and all that is left is what is sitting in the
>warehouse--once that supply is gone, so is the book. I have checked both
>the GRG page and the Hero page, and I have found several discrepancies as
>to what is or isn't available. The one example I can think of right now is
>The Olympians. The GRG page says it is no longer available, but the Hero
>page is still selling it. I noted at a few other discrepancies like this,
>but can't think of them right now. Anyway, in my mind "out of print" means
>it might still be for sale but the well is running dry, whereas
>"unavailable" means the well has already run dry. Using those definitions,
>I think the majority of the books I listed are out of print. I'd be
>delighted if I was wrong, though.
The discrepancies between what GRG has and what Hero Games has are due to the
fact the GRG is selling Hero Games books into distribution, while Hero Games
is not. We have a few copies of most books that we only sell direct to
customers. Our stock of Hero books would be wiped out with a distributor
order; we're hanging on to them because it's easier for fans to find them from
us.
Most, if not all, of the Hero Games products put out by ICE will not be
reprinted, at least not in their current form. If we bring them back it'll be
in new editions. This is largely true of game products across the industry,
BTW. Only core books get reprinted; other supplements are not reprinted
because retailers and distributors are not buying "old" products (that is,
anything older than three months that's not considered a "core" product). A
regrettable situation, but it's a fact of life that all RPG publishers are
having to deal with these days.
Our solution is to use the electronic book format to bring old books back into
print, in cases where it would not be cost-effective to print it again.
Electronic books are far less expensive for us to bring out, and we can keep
them in print forever because they don't have minimum quantities like paper
books do.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:48:28 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
In a message dated 4/9/98 1:33:45 PM, you wrote:
> (BTW Steve & Steve, when C:TNM first came out, most folks on the list
>regarded the world described there as a separate world from the one we're
>more familiar with, just as that other Steve guy did in his conversation
>between the two Seekers. With Shelley's PRIMUS update coming up and my own
>VOICE update now under way, it looks to me like you're going to be
>continuing support of the old Champions Universe as well as the new Hero
>Universe; am I right?)
Yes, that's correct. The advantage for us with the New Millennium setting is
that since we own all of the characters in it, authors can freely reference
and develop those characters in subsequent New Millennium products. While we
own many of the characters in the Champions Universe, we don't own all of
them, so it gets much trickier for authors trying to add to that setting.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Hero Games wrote:
> Our solution is to use the electronic book format to bring old books back into
> print, in cases where it would not be cost-effective to print it again.
> Electronic books are far less expensive for us to bring out, and we can keep
> them in print forever because they don't have minimum quantities like paper
> books do.
Tell me Steve, have you ever considered using HTML instead of Acrobat
to create these electronic books? Personally, I find that Acrobat is very
slow and unwieldy on my computer.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:57:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game, it was
> discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
> and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
> 200 points real fast.>>
>
> I came up with a total even higher than that. And let's not talk about given
> them a separate Martial Arts Style package for each appropriate weapon (as per
> UMA)! <LOL>
Let's see... kenjutsu, yarijutsu, kyujutsu, jujutsu... possibly
naginatajustsu... oh, that could be 50 points right there!
A 14th century knight given all the 'proper' skills and traning will be in
the same boat. Although he won't have all the martial arts packages
(I will argue he should have some sort of package though), there are
stilkl a number of things he would kow and be trained in that could push
his point total way about most Fantasy Hero starting character levels.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:08:44 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
In a message dated 4/9/98 6:56:34 PM, you wrote:
>Tell me Steve, have you ever considered using HTML instead of Acrobat
>to create these electronic books? Personally, I find that Acrobat is very
>slow and unwieldy on my computer.
Sorry to hear that; I do know there are some folks who have problems running
Acrobat, particularly on older machines. We intend to stick with Acrobat,
though, because it has many more features than HTML. For one thing, we can get
all the text, graphics and fonts easily into Acrobat files, and from our
existing PageMaker files, with very little work.
-- Steve Peterson
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:14:06 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
<< Although he won't have all the martial arts packages..., there are still a
number of things he would kow and be trained in that could push his point
total way about most Fantasy Hero starting character levels.>>
Like what? How to employ sheep's bladders to prevent earthquakes? ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Genocide and Mutants
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
>At 07:20 PM 4/9/98 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>> You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
>"Dippy" wouldn't be the word I chose for it. "Misdirected", maybe. I tend to
>class _The MUTANT File_ in the "Good Ideas Run Amuck" category.
Heh. Good idea: Genocide. Amok idea: Genocide w/ 240+ point agents. :-)
> There's very
>little in the book I'm not using in my campaigns _somehow_ ... but there's
>also very little in the book that got used "as is", or even close to "as
>is".
That's just it; you have to do so much modifying in most campaigns that you
might as well write up your own version of Genocide. This does not, IMHO,
constitute a 'good suppliment'. To compare, I would use most of VIPER as-is.
And VIPER is supposed to be the technological bad-ass, as far as
organizations go. But Genocide totes around way better stuff!
>I think there was even more of a need for /conceptual/ restraint
>than point restraint. For example:
>
>* I toned down the Genocide agents a little, basically by rendering the
>various ranks into package deals and equipment attached to Competent
>Normals, and by revising the equipment to get rid of its "shopping list"
>feeping creaturism. I think it's more interesting to have an anti-mutant
>organization that ISN'T teeming with power-nullifying technology -- it's too
>EASY to go that route.
Indeed. What really got me, though is that a group that is fighting against
'freaks' would so easily subject themselves to cybernetic augmentation that
was VERY obvious and freakish (i.e. the Knights, the Black Queen - at least
the Purifier has less than obvious cybernetic reconstruction. But you think
any organization as bigoted as Genocide would be against all forms of
invasive augmentation (power suits would be okay, ditto robots).
And yeah, it's too easy for Genocide if they have _reliable_ mutant
neutralization and detection technology.
>* In my own campaign, Rex Albus's branch covers the entire Americas, and
>Purifier is /his/ Bishop. Regina Atra has been retconned into a Japanese
>woman in charge of the Asian branch (it was really silly to create a
>bureacratic setup that ignores China, Russia, AND India, the three most
>populous -- and thus probably most mutant-ous -- nations in the world!).
Good idea!
>* IMAGE makes for a nice "bad guy mutants" group, but they don't have the
>"army of thousands" described in their writeup. Like I said, conceptual
>restraint.
Right. One of the genre bits of most superheroic universes is that mutants
(heck, any supers!) generally don't form huge organizations with political
agendas.
>* Say "No" to "advanced generation mutants" --
I do. It was just a goofy excuse to hand out Power Defense and Life Supports
IMHO.
How I'd like to run mutants:
I don't think that mutants would be the 'start' of a superior human being.
Rather, they're the genetic 'hiccups' produced by a species on the verge of
an evolutionary 'step up'. The randomness of the manifestation of powers and
the gross physical distortions are indicative of this. The 'actual'
evolutionary upgraded humans would simply have higher baseline
characteristics - say, 13s across the board, a slightly better immune
system, etc., but would be essentially impossible to differentiate from a
'normal' human being (they're just a whole lot better at everything).
Natural selective processes would have most 'improved' humans mating with
other improved humans, eventually (maybe) outstripping the 'baseline'
humanity thanks to simply better health, longevity and intelligence/talents.
And they wouldn't even realize that they were doing it...:-).
Anyway, once the 'baseline' humanity has faded from the Earth (peacefully,
probably), superpowered mutation would come to an end. In fact, mutants
might have been the product of interbreeding between the 'baseline' and
'improved' humans*. Hmm...
Anyway, mutantkind would not be the next race of humanity. Mutants breeding
with mutants would produce a number of possibilities: Baseline humans,
improved humans, or different mutants with different powers.
*Improved humans would result from a small percentage of the births between
baseline humans - the right genes mix at the right time. With Earth's
population being what it is, the species has finally enough improved humans
to achieve a sort of 'critical mass' that allows the improved humans to make
a grab for the evolutionary brass ring.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id XAA21997
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
>>You gotta be kidding me. This was the dippiest suppliment since European
>>Enemies. 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? And most of the character
>>writeups were similarly over-powered to the extreme. The biker gang was the
>>only redeeming bit...
>
> There's more to a character's power than just points. Let's compare the
>actual capabilities of a Genocide Pawn vs a VIPER agent:
> Now, certainly one Genocide Pawn is more powerful than one VIPER Agent,
>but not like you'd expect for 268 points vs 100 points. Beginning-level
>Seeker could probably pound a Pawn into the ground without working up too
>much of a sweat. The true guage of power isn't just raw points, but where
>those points are spent.
> Pawns carry multiple weapons, paying full cost for each (rather than
>taking the option, introduced somewhat later, of putting multiple weapons
>into a single Multipower). They also have points spent in stuff like
>Martial Arts, and even a motion detector. These things suck up points,
>making a character more versatile but less powerful overall for a
>deceptively high cost.
Yes, I know, but Genocide agents are built to thwart just about every
super-option for taking out agents without doing serious harm. They have gas
masks to foil NNDs; they have Flash Defense to foil Flashes; they have Sonar
to foil Darkness.
But what's worse, they have MORE skill levels than you'd expect from Navy
SEALs. These are supposed to be guys described as coming from all walks of
life, but they're combat monsters, as far as normals go (14 DEX, 4 combat
levels, 5 martial arts maneuvers, familiar with all firearms). It should
take _years_ of _daily_ training to get this good. Genocide agents shouldn't
have 'normal' lives period.
Also, most of them carry equipment that would make the average PC gadgeteer
drool with envy; 4D6 Area Effect STR Drain, 3D6 Autofire x10 RKA, 8D6 Area
Effect Suppress vs All Psionic Powers, 40 STR Area Effect Telekinesis, 8D6
Suppress vs. Energy-Based Powers* - Genocide agents are generally holding
weapons in the 80-160 active point range! Yes, Seeker could clobber one
right quick; but a single hit from the right Genocide weapons will
completely neutralize most heroes. Most VIPER weapons cap out at 90 active
points, and those tend to act on conventional defenses (which heroes
generally have lots of). And the average agent has a 40-60 AP weapon.
They're not _all_ heaving around 100+ AP weapons (and a 45 AP sidearm plus a
70+ AP grenade weapon).
*A crock of an SFX if I ever saw one!
Also, I object to the 'cookie-cutter' higher-up pawns as well. The Knights
are more than a match for any one super, and Rooks put most power armor
supers to shame.
Oh, and you'll note that the Rooks and Knights don't hate mutants, at least
not on a Psychological Limitation level ^_^.
>And don't even think about sending PCs against Genocide's higher-ups unless
>they're powerful *and* experienced.
The funny thing is that a handful of Genocide agents could wipe out the
leadership. There's some quality villian planning if I ever saw it :-).
Oh, on a side note; how many Silver Avengers have gone bad to date?
Vengeance (genocide White King's Bishop), Red Shield (Red Doom Member), and
Armstrong (VIPER Force-2's leader). Isn't it getting a bit cliché? :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:16:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Minutemen VII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
>However, the icing on the cake is the huge self aware robots. Not only are
>they silly and self defeating (try to hide a 3 story robot flying off
>somewhere), it doesn't fit the profile of the Genocide people. If humanity
>is the zenith of creation, why use machines that are intelligent?
Gah! Don't even mention the Minutemen VII. Mutant hunting robots should be
able to go toe-to-toe with the average super, one-on-one, but a robot that
can take an entire team and easily win...bleah! I want to use Minutemen as
Genocide's genre bit; not as their 'final assault' weapon. I'd rather
Genocide not have many agents at all; relying primarily on Minutemen for
thier dirty work. It makes Genocide distinctive from VIPER (power levels aside).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:16:07 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
><< 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? >>
>
> Sheer point toals should not be the determining factor on whether a
>character is reasonable or not. For "Law & Order," I have been developing some
>police packages, and let me tell you... a "regular street cop" has close to
>200 points... and that's with Characteristic Stat Maxima! But a 200 point
>superhero could dust them in no time flat (most of the points are in skills).
>So don't wrinkle your nose at the points just because there are a lot of them.
>Consider how they are spent.
You gotta be kidding me. This is a case of over-building if the Street Cop
has 200 points. Unless, UNLESS, you're playing Police HERO.
How the hell did Joe Cop spend 200 points anyways? You say most of those
points are in skills, but once you've bought PS: Police Officer and KS:
Police Procedures and mayyyybe KS: Law, a couple weapon FAMs and Combat
Driving, what have you got left to buy? I can't (believably) see anyone
spending more than 20 points for the average cop's skills unless they were
totally...ahhh...I think I'll withhold that comment ^_^. Joe Cop is a
skilled normal; the higher-ups (detectives, etc.) shouldn't break out beyond
100 points IMHO.
Look at it this way; if Joe Cop is built on 200 points, if my character
wants to play a Cop who gained super powers, he'll have...50 points worth of
super-powers and attributes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo26.mx.aol.com from firelynx16@aol.com server @imo26.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.70
From: Firelynx16 <Firelynx16@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:35:02 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, calicajun@prtcl.com
Subject: Re: Supplement request (Cardboard Miniatures)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
In a message dated 98-04-08 03:52:03 EDT, you write:
> I've been making/using cardboard character miniatures for years. I would be
> happy to post & create some for those interested. Eventually I intend on
> having a web site where if requested people will regularly find a update of
> these "cardboard miniatures" I am unaware as to weather or not I can send
> files to the Hero E-mail list.
> If you are interested You can E-mail me or post a response on the list. If
> I receive enough responses I will make this a pet project of mine.
> ____________________________
> GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
> ---------------------------------------------
> Eric Chauvin
> calicajun@prtcl.com
I'd love this! Make 'em, and I'll use 'em!
'Lynx
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:48:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << Although he won't have all the martial arts packages..., there are still a
> number of things he would kow and be trained in that could push his point
> total way about most Fantasy Hero starting character levels.>>
>
> Like what? How to employ sheep's bladders to prevent earthquakes? ;)
lesse:
WF: Sword, Shield, Lance, Bow (possibly quarterstaff)
Riding
High Society
Tactics
KS: Dance
KS: Heraldry
KS: Chess
PS: Knight
KS: Hawking
Animal Handler (horse and/or hawk)
KS: Poetry
Oratory
Perk: Knight
CSLs with weapons, martial arts and to counteract DCV minus from wearing
armor.
Martial Arts: sword and shield, mounted combat, great sword, pole arm
Wealth - it was expensive to be a knight, which is why by the 15th C, many
squires stayed squires
possible skills include Paramedic, Bureacratics (for dealing with middle
ages law - knights were the law enforcement of the time), and assorted
skills with running a manor and/or castle
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:49:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
>> << 240+ point _agents_ working for Genocide? >>
>>
>> Sheer point toals should not be the determining factor on whether a
>> character is reasonable or not.
<snip>
>> Consider how they are spent.
>
>I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game, it was
>discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
>and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
>200 points real fast. 75% of that would be skills, and the character
>would probably fold like a house of cards to your average 250 point super.
My point is that those 268 points in Genocide agents ISN'T spent on skills;
it's something like 142 points in gadgets. A black belt (plus) in martial
arts. More arms training than a Marine.
Personally, I'd like to see the 200 point 'average' samurai. That's samurai
retainer, not a lord. I question the need to buy a martial art for such a
samurai in the first place (most would have FAM with the appropriate weapons
and a couple skill levels, not a full Kenjitsu package). I'll bet a lot of
the writeup could be wrapped into PS: Samurai...<shrug>.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Joe Cop
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
><< Wow, I take it this is "not your father's Package Deal" >>
>
> Actually I wasn't clear (I had two thoughts running in my head at the same
>time). The extra Packages themselves (the SWAT package, the EOD package, the
>Jailer package, etc.) are like 5-15 Pts each. It's the very Basic Package (a
>rookie cop freash out of the academy) that costs a whopping 30 Pts (not
>counting stats and background skills), IIRC, and the total characters that
>cost so much.
Okay, THAT makes a whole lot more sense. Your average street cop (your best
buddy in law and order!) shouldn't progress too far from the baseline (a few
skill improvements here and there, some extra PRE/EGO from experience,
etc.). Of course cross-trained uber-cop (was in SWAT, now a Homicide
Detective, etc.) will have tons of skills.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:01:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game, it was
> >discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
> >and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
> >200 points real fast. 75% of that would be skills, and the character
> >would probably fold like a house of cards to your average 250 point super.
>
> My point is that those 268 points in Genocide agents ISN'T spent on skills;
> it's something like 142 points in gadgets. A black belt (plus) in martial
> arts. More arms training than a Marine.
Well, to be honest, I didn't care for Mutant File. I didn't use mutant in
my old Champions game and I found a lot of the write-ups in MF to be just
plain gross in terms of power level.
> Personally, I'd like to see the 200 point 'average' samurai. That's samurai
> retainer, not a lord. I question the need to buy a martial art for such a
> samurai in the first place (most would have FAM with the appropriate weapons
> and a couple skill levels, not a full Kenjitsu package). I'll bet a lot of
> the writeup could be wrapped into PS: Samurai...<shrug>.
A run-of-the-mill 'bushi' would be maybe 10 points and be built like the
samurai you mention. But, a proper samurai retainer, as in one given the
right to wear a daisho, would have been trained in the use of his swords,
often from a very young age. He also would have been trained in proper
court behavior, riding, the use of a slew of weapons, be expected to write
well, be a poet, possibly play a musical instrument, the tea ceremony...
It isprobably a matter of opinion as to how much one can file under PS:
Samurai (or cop or knight).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:00:15 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Minutemen VII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
>Gah! Don't even mention the Minutemen VII. Mutant hunting robots should be
>able to go toe-to-toe with the average super, one-on-one, but a robot that
>can take an entire team and easily win...bleah! I want to use Minutemen as
>Genocide's genre bit; not as their 'final assault' weapon. I'd rather
>Genocide not have many agents at all; relying primarily on Minutemen for
>thier dirty work. It makes Genocide distinctive from VIPER (power levels
aside).
For making agencies distinct I always have tried to make thier goals and
modus operandi very distinct. Viper is after money, pure and simple (I dont
have the VIPER book plot in place), and they use huge schemes to keep their
name in high profile. Genocide is after genetic purity, at any cost; no
robots, only humans using high tech.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: uh, what's this with subscribing again?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:38 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
i just got another 'do you want to subcribe' command. .. i'm gona ignore
it,
since i've already got about 5. .. .hope it's nothing important. .. anyone
else
got simmilar messages?
*backs slowly away*
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.1.64
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:05:34 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Organization: None
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
John and Ron Prins wrote: Oh, on a side note; how many Silver Avengers have gone
bad to date?
> Vengeance (genocide White King's Bishop), Red Shield (Red Doom Member), and
> Armstrong (VIPER Force-2's leader). Isn't it getting a bit cliché? :-)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Now, we get bigger guns."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John D. Prins and Ron Prins
> jprins@interhop.net
I concour on that note. But I think that the characters who have come from the
cliche have given me PRIMUS's Personality. I originally though PRIMUS was like
SHIELD, or UNTIL but now I See them more as SAT, almost a government supported
Klan. The Golden Avenger in my Campaigns has been a glory hounding asshole who has
great PR. Half the heroes in the world wanna shove his face into a toilet. The
Silver Avengers are chosen by him (or to fill quotas) so Its easy to see them
being easily disillusioned. I have Three other Renegade SA's. A vigilante named
Justice (original no?), A hero named American Steel, and a villain crimelord known
as Avenger Black who was trying to cripple national security and the criminal
underworld by causing a series of "gang wars" so he could take over......
I also have had the cyberline treatment stolen and given to the leaders of the
Shadowlords; world conquerers for hire....
I'm a ramblin' guy
Chad
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:20:06 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
> Yes, that's correct. The advantage for us with the New Millennium setting is
> that since we own all of the characters in it, authors can freely reference
> and develop those characters in subsequent New Millennium products. While we
> own many of the characters in the Champions Universe, we don't own all of
> them, so it gets much trickier for authors trying to add to that setting.
Not up for a DC/Marvel style retcon to explain how all those old
characters that you don't own not only no longer exist but actually
never did? :)
Something like this may actually be a justifiable use of that
technique. Though I imagine many fans would flame you for it anyway. :)
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:28:34 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
> > There's very
> >little in the book I'm not using in my campaigns _somehow_ ... but there's
> >also very little in the book that got used "as is", or even close to "as
> >is".
>
> That's just it; you have to do so much modifying in most campaigns that you
> might as well write up your own version of Genocide. This does not, IMHO,
> constitute a 'good suppliment'. To compare, I would use most of VIPER as-is.
> And VIPER is supposed to be the technological bad-ass, as far as
> organizations go. But Genocide totes around way better stuff!
THis is a key point. I'm a strong believer that Hero needs to establish
a standard 'published power level' that all published works reference.
So that when
I see a 400 point super I know she's suppossed to be X times more potent
than the
'average'.
If all published stuff stuck to a standard design philosophy and power
level, it
would be trivial for me to modify anything new to my game's level's.
As is, when I open a given book and all it's super's are at 350 points
and it's agents at 200; I don't know if this is because of the way that
author played their games, or if those characters were supposed to be
tougher than normal. I have to read through everything several times,
then make an educated guess, before I know best how to adopt it into my
game's world and my design philosophy.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo cray-ymp.acm.vt.edu from epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.vt.edu server @cray-ymp.acm.vt.edu ip 128.173.43.251
From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@acm.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
>
> Villians and Vigilantes: I've only looked at the first edition of this game;
> it's an amusing random character creation system, though characters tend to be
> somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in Marvel Super
I remember a bunch of us spending an afternoon rolling up characters
and falling off our chairs laughing at how rediculious the resulting
characters tended to be....
Eric
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-7.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @arl-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.137
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:41:02 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: COM rules [Really Long!]
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id GAA09240
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
> Target's EGO +10 Target is enamored. Thinks
> attacker is friendly unless shown otherwise. Will tend to believe any
> reasonable thing attacker says. Will grant attacker requests that target
> wouldn't mind doing. Target will hesitate as above, and only performs a
> half phase action during the COM attack's phase. +2D6 to PRE attacks vs.
> target. +2 to PRE based skills vs. target.
Whoa! This almost perfectly describes my relationship with Tonya Harding.
Spooky...
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:49:10 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
At 10:20 PM 4/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Yes, that's correct. The advantage for us with the New Millennium
setting is
>> that since we own all of the characters in it, authors can freely reference
>> and develop those characters in subsequent New Millennium products.
While we
>> own many of the characters in the Champions Universe, we don't own all of
>> them, so it gets much trickier for authors trying to add to that setting.
>
> Not up for a DC/Marvel style retcon to explain how all those old
>characters that you don't own not only no longer exist but actually
>never did? :)
> Something like this may actually be a justifiable use of that
>technique. Though I imagine many fans would flame you for it anyway. :)
I know I would. That's exactly the sort of thing that I was concerned
about when I read the "Hero Universe 1.0" document and Timeline.
Damon
---------------------
Dream or reality, the experience is the same, is it not?
-- Michael Moorcock
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mars.superlink.net from why@saturn.superlink.net server root@mars.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.9
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:04:51 -0400 (EDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
Steve Peterson wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/98 6:56:34 PM, you wrote:
>
> >Tell me Steve, have you ever considered using HTML instead of Acrobat
> >to create these electronic books? Personally, I find that Acrobat is very
> >slow and unwieldy on my computer.
>
> Sorry to hear that; I do know there are some folks who have problems running
> Acrobat, particularly on older machines. We intend to stick with Acrobat,
It doesn't work well on Pentium II 300.
> though, because it has many more features than HTML. For one thing, we can get
> all the text, graphics and fonts easily into Acrobat files, and from our
> existing PageMaker files, with very little work.
Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the text
from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the lastest
copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus Color
600.) I will never buy another Hero Plus product until it is available in
another (read: better) format.
Joe
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: COM rules [Really Long!]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:20:48 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
> At 05:34 PM 4/9/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA
wrote:
> > These are the COM rules from my house rules!
>> Puma raise shields to deflect anticipated flames! ^_^;
From: Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
> No flames from this corner. I like it. It's finally
something concrete
> that can be done with COM.
Much Thanks!
> I'd only make two substantial alterations. The first is
that the
> attacker has to declare a COM Attack to do it, unless the
target has some
> Psychological Limitation or other reason for an automatic
effect.
Reasonable, although had in mind hot babe in skimpy outfit doing
attack when made rules. If dressed and acting "normally", would
have
to decalre it. But, if wearing skimpy outfit, etc, its automatic
(whether
you want to do it or not! :) Psych lims, etc. can effect it as
you said.
> Also,
> bonus dice should be available for special circumstances,
though because
> COM is so much cheaper than PRE they should be harder to come
by.
Yes, breifly mentioned this. Can get extra dice just as with a
PRE attack.
EX: Hot babe gets costume blown off! ^_^; Useing Seduction
skill, etc.
> ---
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: COM rules [Really Long!]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:30:16 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
>No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
>a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
PRE attacks work on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (monsters too).
COM attacks just work on the opposite sex.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:33:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, David W Toomey wrote:
>
> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:34:56 -0500 "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA"
> <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com> writes:
> > These are the COM rules from my house rules!
> > Puma raise shields to deflect anticipated flames! ^_^;
> >
> > Comeliness:
> > When a target sees an attractive (high COM)
> >member of the opposite sex (the attacker), the attacker should make a
> >comeliness roll. The roll is made using 1D6 for every 5 points in
> >comeliness the attacker has. The damage on the roll is totaled and
> >applied against the target's EGO. Results are determined from the
> >chart
> >shown below:
>
> <<--snipped-->>
>
>
> No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
> a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
Because it's better suited to the character concept.
Also, PRE is used as a skill basis and as an alternative resistance to PRE
Attacks (more correctly, EGO is the alternative resistance and PRE is the
standard resistance). If you beef up the game-mechanical abilities that
COM gives you to match this, I'd recommend increasing the price of COM to
match the price of PRE.
> I normally add 1d6 for every 5 pts of COM above 10 to appropriate PRE
> attacks.
This doesn't remedy the game-mechanical problem you describe above; you
can still get +1d6 PRE Attack for only 2.5 character points by buying it
through COM instead of PRE.
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle-140.raptor.com from jcalvaneso@raptor.com server @eagle1a.raptor.com ip 209.48.140.11
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:03 -0400
From: Justin Calvaneso <jcalvaneso@raptor.com>
Organization: Raptor Systems
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Tell me Steve, have you ever considered using HTML instead of Acrobat
> to create these electronic books? Personally, I find that Acrobat is very
> slow and unwieldy on my computer.
Same prob here. I have a little P75 w/16MB RAM. Large PDF's don't make it very
happy. HTML on the other hand can be handled quite nicely. See White Wolf's Vampire
CD Rom. They reprinted 5 books in more or less the same format (graphics are intact,
electronic and paper book pages correspond to on another), and used HTML. <shrug>
It's something to consider.
---
Justin Calvaneso Raptor Systems, Inc.
Test Lab Technician a division of Axent Technologies
jcalvaneso@raptor.com 266 Second Avenue
(781) 530-2362 Waltham, MA 02154
---
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:04:05 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
In a message dated 4/10/98 7:13:33 AM, you wrote:
>It doesn't work well on Pentium II 300.
>
>> though, because it has many more features than HTML. For one thing, we can
get
>
>> all the text, graphics and fonts easily into Acrobat files, and from our
>> existing PageMaker files, with very little work.
>
>Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
>picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the text
>from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the lastest
>copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus Color
>600.) I will never buy another Hero Plus product until it is available in
>another (read: better) format.
There's obviously some reason why Acrobat dislikes your particular
configuration; perhaps Adobe can help you out. We've seen no problems with
Acrobat on a wide variety of machines, and none of the other possibilities
we've looked at have come anywhere close to offering us (as publishers) the
features of Acrobat. Also, Adobe continues to work on improving Acrobat, and
continues to support multiple platforms (including UNIX). No solution we
choose is going to work for everyone, though, so we just have to go with the
best choice we have.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: More book reviews, please
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:06:11 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 39
Mark,
You'll be getting Haymaker #16 any day now. In it is my take on the cop
skill debate (among other skill packages).
Dave Mattingly
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:21:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
> >a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
>
> PRE attacks work on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (monsters too).
> COM attacks just work on the opposite sex.
Make that 'appropriate' sex...after all, the Incredible Hunk should be
able to use his COM attack vs, say, Northstar of Alpha Flight...
Also, PRE attacks can be used to inspire, lead, cause fear, etc - they're
a lot more versatile than a COM attack, which can basically be used to
seduce.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:45:11 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> > I said before, this is a group discussion list, the default reply should go back
> > to the list.
>
> Actually, no. A group discussion list places itself as merely a
> waystation for the mail. It still should be from the various individuals.
> You may think you have some common sense on your side, but it's a false
> common sense disproven by years of internet mailing lists.
Say, what?
I've participated in mailing lists off and on since 1983, and I have seen
lists do it both ways, depending on convenience and the purpose of the
list. In fact, with some lists, there was not anything in the header
that indicated where the message came from: you had to rely on
signatures. In fact, this was one of the *reasons* to have a sig file.
I have seen people get high and mighty about silly things in fifteen
years on the net, but this is one for the books. I think it reasonable
to have an on-list meta-discussion about the list rules, but, people!
This is not a moral issue! Lighten up!
The current method is slightly more convenient for me, because 95% of the
time, I want to reply to the group. Either I have to cut-and-paste to
avoid sending default replies to both the group and the author, or I have
to cut-and-paste to send occasional replies to the author only.
But, this is just a slight matter of convenience.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:45:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 41
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Sakura wrote:
> Also, PRE attacks can be used to inspire, lead, cause fear, etc - they're
> a lot more versatile than a COM attack, which can basically be used to
> seduce.
Perhaps it would be better simply to change Seduction to a COM-based
skill, and be done with it...
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Reply-To Problems
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:49:00 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 42
>Mark,
>
>You'll be getting Haymaker #16 any day now. In it is my take on the cop
>skill debate (among other skill packages).
>
Misdirected mail is the major problem with screwing with reply-to
addresses on mailing lists. My guess is that this was intended as private
mail.
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:59:40 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Genocide
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 46
At 09:45 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
>> I concur, I thought The Mutant File ranked right up there with oh, High
Tech
>> Enemies for most useless supplement. My biggest annoyance was the mutant
>> working in Genocide... like a virulently anti mutant organization wouldnt
>> EVER notice that (nothing is detect proof).
>
>I find it very interesting that Sean Fannon wrote both of these books. I
>beleive that part of the problem stems from the fact that Sean is noted
>for running an 'unlmited' points game, where the characters were as
>expensive as the player wanted. Sean appreantly thinks *everyone* runs
>games at this power level and wrote his books accordingly.
This speaks to the need for a "standard" power range. A good
organizational write-up should, at its most basic level, be defeatable by a
low-powered group of 100+100 supers or 75+75+75 super agents, but still
have elements that can challenge the unlimited-points crowd. VIPER handled
that easily. I hope to at least approach that standard in my VOICE update.
This is, I think, where Sean really fell down in his creation of
Genocide. A team of seven Pawns (half the stated standard) plus a Rook is
just enough to challenge a beginning team of five to seven 100+200 PCs, but
if I had a low-powered 100+100 game I'm not sure how I'd use them. Other
Fannon organizations, like IMAGE and Cy-Force, don't suffer that way. I
think he was trying to create a frightening organization, and overstepped.
Amy Crittenden mentioned something in one of the chats with Bruce about
doing a Genocide update. Amy, if you do that, and if you're still on the
list, I have a couple of bits of advice: 1. Don't ignore or try to retcon
Sean's work; build on it, and create a forward continuity that corrects the
problems. 2. Keep in mind the breadth of possible power levels in CU
campaigns, and write accordingly. 3. Pay close attention to the comments
made by folks here on the list. I got valuable ideas for TUSV, and got a
few for VOICE (and I'll be seeking out more later on, after I've sent in
the Final Draft for TUSV).
That's all. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:22:17 -0500
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-14,16,18-23
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 72
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:33:30 -0500 (CDT) Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
writes:
>On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, David W Toomey wrote:
>> I normally add 1d6 for every 5 pts of COM above 10 to appropriate
>PRE
>> attacks.
>
>This doesn't remedy the game-mechanical problem you describe above;
>you
>can still get +1d6 PRE Attack for only 2.5 character points by buying
>it
>through COM instead of PRE.
That's why I said *appropriate* PRE attacks. A -1 limit on extra PRE
defined
as "same sex (usually) only, Offensive only, Only to charm: Not for fear,
morale
building,etc" would be accepted in my campaign.
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:24:23 -0500
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-9,11-16
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 69
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:30:16 -0500 "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA"
<andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com> writes:
>>No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
>>a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
>
>PRE attacks work on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (monsters too).
>COM attacks just work on the opposite sex.
So buy PRE with -1 limitation...don't re-write the rules when with
appropriate
SFX, the available rules work
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: COM rules [Really Long!]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:25:08 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 43
>Make that 'appropriate' sex...after all, the Incredible Hunk should be
>able to use his COM attack vs, say, Northstar of Alpha Flight...
Very True! Can cause 'problems' for the attacker! ^_^;
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:52:34 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Acrobat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 45
At 10:04 AM 4/10/1998 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>> >Tell me Steve, have you ever considered using HTML instead of Acrobat
>> >to create these electronic books? Personally, I find that Acrobat is
very
>> >slow and unwieldy on my computer.
>>
>> Sorry to hear that; I do know there are some folks who have problems
running
>> Acrobat, particularly on older machines. We intend to stick with Acrobat,
>
>It doesn't work well on Pentium II 300.
That's funny; Acrobat Reader works great on my 486/80!
>> though, because it has many more features than HTML. For one thing, we
can get
>> all the text, graphics and fonts easily into Acrobat files, and from our
>> existing PageMaker files, with very little work.
>
>Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
>picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the text
>from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the lastest
>copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus Color
>600.) I will never buy another Hero Plus product until it is available in
>another (read: better) format.
Please consider _selectively_ buying books in the print format.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:52:44 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 44
<< ...they're combat monsters, as far as normals go (14 DEX, 4 combat levels,
5 martial arts maneuvers, familiar with all firearms). It should take _years_
of _daily_ training to get this good. Genocide agents shouldn't have 'normal'
lives period. >>
I disagree. 20 is the "peak" of human ability with regard to stats, but
normal humans *can* go above 20... it just costs them more points. ;) My
point is that regular everyday normal non-super-type humans can have a stat
higher than 20. Further, if 10 is the *average* score, then why is it so
unfathomable for a skilled agent to have a 14. I have worked with many cops
that I would consider having a 14+ DEX and a 4 SPD in Hero System terms, and I
assure you that they have not had years of daily training (unless doughnuts
and mochas count as training <G>).
I'm not advocating the increase of human NPC stats across the board, only
that a 14 is not as unreasonable as some may think for agents.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:57:02 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 48
At 08:49 PM 4/9/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding at physical
>actions while wounded in the Champs rules? >>
>
> Pp. 162-1677 is the only relevant section I could find. :/
Yep, over 1500 pages of text on the subject! ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:59:19 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 47
At 10:44 PM 4/9/1998 EDT, Hero Games wrote:
>Our solution is to use the electronic book format to bring old books back
into
>print, in cases where it would not be cost-effective to print it again.
>Electronic books are far less expensive for us to bring out, and we can keep
>them in print forever because they don't have minimum quantities like paper
>books do.
You might even say that it *does* have a minimum quantity -- one. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:59:40 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Samurai
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 49
At 10:57 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
>
>> << I agree. When developing characters for a local fedual Japan game,
it was
>> discovered that a 'proper' samurai (meaning one that had all the skills
>> and training one would expect for a historical samurai) would probably top
>> 200 points real fast.>>
>>
>> I came up with a total even higher than that. And let's not talk about
given
>> them a separate Martial Arts Style package for each appropriate weapon
(as per
>> UMA)! <LOL>
>
>Let's see... kenjutsu, yarijutsu, kyujutsu, jujutsu... possibly
>naginatajustsu... oh, that could be 50 points right there!
Don't forget that once you buy a maneuver (in game terms), it's bought
for all of the styles you know. (Though there's not as much crossover
among those styles as one might think.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:59:51 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Genocide
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA23245
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 51
At 11:15 PM 4/9/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>> Pawns carry multiple weapons, paying full cost for each (rather than
>>taking the option, introduced somewhat later, of putting multiple weapons
>>into a single Multipower). They also have points spent in stuff like
>>Martial Arts, and even a motion detector. These things suck up points,
>>making a character more versatile but less powerful overall for a
>>deceptively high cost.
>
>Yes, I know, but Genocide agents are built to thwart just about every
>super-option for taking out agents without doing serious harm. They have gas
>masks to foil NNDs; they have Flash Defense to foil Flashes; they have Sonar
>to foil Darkness.
And why wouldn't they be? (Though I could probably go along with
ditching the motion detector as standard-issue equipment.)
>But what's worse, they have MORE skill levels than you'd expect from Navy
>SEALs. These are supposed to be guys described as coming from all walks of
>life, but they're combat monsters, as far as normals go (14 DEX, 4 combat
>levels, 5 martial arts maneuvers, familiar with all firearms). It should
>take _years_ of _daily_ training to get this good. Genocide agents shouldn't
>have 'normal' lives period.
I could also see ditching the CSLs. However, the rest make sense,
considering their philosophy of life. Remember, real-world survivialists
and weekend warriors also come from "all walks of life."
>Also, most of them carry equipment that would make the average PC gadgeteer
>drool with envy; 4D6 Area Effect STR Drain, 3D6 Autofire x10 RKA, 8D6 Area
>Effect Suppress vs All Psionic Powers, 40 STR Area Effect Telekinesis, 8D6
>Suppress vs. Energy-Based Powers* - Genocide agents are generally holding
>weapons in the 80-160 active point range! Yes, Seeker could clobber one
>right quick; but a single hit from the right Genocide weapons will
>completely neutralize most heroes. Most VIPER weapons cap out at 90 active
>points, and those tend to act on conventional defenses (which heroes
>generally have lots of). And the average agent has a 40-60 AP weapon.
>They're not _all_ heaving around 100+ AP weapons (and a 45 AP sidearm plus a
>70+ AP grenade weapon).
>
>*A crock of an SFX if I ever saw one!
Most of your points here I'll concede; a couple I'd debate. I'll cover
the latter category first.
As for Special Defenses and weapons that act against them, that's part
of Genocide's bailiwick. They're fighting mutants, and so have to address
the presence of mutant powers.
And while I'd agree that a *lower* proportion of the Pawns should carry
around butt-busting weapons (not *all* of them do now; and I don't really
count the TK weapon in this category), and that some of these weapons
should be toned down a bit, they should still be significantly more
frequent and more powerful than what's in VIPER. VIPER agents are intended
for 5:1 match-ups, while Pawns should work best in 3:1 (or maybe 2:1)
match-ups. (Yes, note in another of my posts that what I do now is closer
to 3:2.)
I'd agree wholehearedly about that crock in the Suppress weapon. I end
up consciously reading that as "All Powers of Any One Energy-Based SFX
(choose)."
To expand on my concession about *how* big these uberweapons are, I
think some general level should be set and stuck to. 90 AP is generally
good for a typical butt-buster, or 120 if you really want something tough
(though that should have just 1-2 Charges or be similarly Limited). Use AE
sparingly; at least a couple of the weapons have AE:hex that really
shouldn't. It seems to me that a lot of the constructs were built with
game mechanics in mind rather than special effects.
>Also, I object to the 'cookie-cutter' higher-up pawns as well. The Knights
>are more than a match for any one super, and Rooks put most power armor
>supers to shame.
I think the Knights *should* be more than a match for any one super, and
require at least two to cleanly defeat. Only one or at most two should be
present at any encounter.
I will tend to agree on the Rooks, though. They should just about equal
any one super. On them, I think I'd kill the Lack of Weakness and
Knockback Resistance (I don't see much SFX reason for the latter anyway),
cut the pool to 60 points, drop one of the two pairs of CSLs, leave off the
Radar, and cut REC and STUN to base levels.
>Oh, and you'll note that the Rooks and Knights don't hate mutants, at least
>not on a Psychological Limitation level ^_^.
Can you say, "Silly Oversight," boys and girls? :-]
>>And don't even think about sending PCs against Genocide's higher-ups unless
>>they're powerful *and* experienced.
>
>The funny thing is that a handful of Genocide agents could wipe out the
>leadership. There's some quality villian planning if I ever saw it :-).
Yep. Like I said, the Pawns are *a tad* overpowered, but not as grossly
overpowered as their point total would suggest.
>Oh, on a side note; how many Silver Avengers have gone bad to date?
>Vengeance (genocide White King's Bishop), Red Shield (Red Doom Member), and
>Armstrong (VIPER Force-2's leader). Isn't it getting a bit cliché? :-)
I think that's why there's a de factor moratorium on Silver Avengers
gone bad (though I had a logical explanation for it that I would've put
into my update of PRIMUS had Shelley not gotten that book).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1a.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1a.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.22
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic] Other superhero RPGs
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 50
---Eric Pawtowski wrote:
>
> >
> > Villians and Vigilantes: I've only looked at the first edition of
this game;
> > it's an amusing random character creation system, though
characters tend to be
> > somewhat better balanced against one another than they are in
Marvel Super
>
> I remember a bunch of us spending an afternoon rolling up characters
> and falling off our chairs laughing at how rediculious the resulting
> characters tended to be....
"Ice Powers - your character has the ability to freeze and entire city
block. Does 1d6 damage". (or was it 1d10?)
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:14:19 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 53
<< You gotta be kidding me. This is a case of over-building if the Street Cop
has 200 points. Unless, UNLESS, you're playing Police HERO. >>
Given that "Law & Order" is intended to be the definitive law enforcement
sourcebook for Hero System (and other games), it kinda stands to reason that
we're going for the full-bore cop write-up, as well as "Police Hero"-type
characters.
Remember -- these characters are the PC or "major NPC" type of write-ups.
Having spent more than 10 years in this profession and having gone through two
full-time academies, I can assure you that cops have a heck of a lot more than
25 Pts. in skills and such. <LOL> Unless you think that somehow I've been
duped and the skills I learned don't really exist... ;)
<< How the hell did Joe Cop spend 200 points anyways? ...once you've bought
PS: Police Officer and KS: Police Procedures and mayyyybe KS: Law, a couple
weapon FAMs and Combat Driving, what have you got left to buy? >>
There is KS: Civil Law 8-, AK: Patrol Area, Forensic Science 8-, and much,
much more. Again, this is not intended, necessarily, to be the write-up you
*must* use for your NPC cops. I'm talking a real-world big city cop expressed
in Hero System terms.
Steve Peterson, Bruce Harlick, Steve Long and a host of other Hero folk have
seen some of this material and I assure you that none of them said "Whoa! Too
many points! Cut them in half!" <LOL>
<< Joe Cop is a skilled normal; the higher-ups (detectives, etc.) shouldn't
break out beyond 100 points IMHO. >>
As per the existing Hero System guidelines, no, they shouldn't. However,
we're breaking those boundaries because they are not realistic when exploring
cops as full blown characters. Again, think of this books as "The Ultimate Law
Enforcer" if it helps to keep it in perspective. ;)
<< Look at it this way; if Joe Cop is built on 200 points, if my character
wants to play a Cop who gained super powers, he'll have...50 points worth of
super-powers and attributes. >>
That's fine and well, but this book is designed for more than just a four-
color Champions campaign. And the players do not have to take our published
materials as mandatory. It will be a "realistically accurate" portrayal of law
enforcement in Hero System terms.
So I suppose you think that a Fast Draw modifier for different holster types
is excessieve, too? Sheesh. Good thing I didn't tell him about the 750 Pt.
police cruisers! ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:14:53 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 55
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
At 09:30 AM 4/10/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>>No Flames, just wondering why anybody would buy PRE to more than
>>a medium value with a 2-for-1 deal with COM.
>
>PRE attacks work on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (monsters too).
>COM attacks just work on the opposite sex.
>
Well, to be fair, they ought to work on anyone physically attracted
to you, regardless of their gender or yours.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNS5TjTKf8mIpTvjWEQJltwCg4x4krXSMNR1DH2yEo2Enomkzxj0An07o
LPYQYJn1T+Xj85nJU7KypFcC
=2BOl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:18:19 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 54
<< More arms training than a Marine. >>
I'm going to have to go back and look at these write-ups.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo user1.cyberis.net from ctaylor@cyberis.net server qmailr@user1.cyberis.net ip 207.14.106.217
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:20:21 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 52
At 11:25 AM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Make that 'appropriate' sex...after all, the Incredible Hunk should be
>>able to use his COM attack vs, say, Northstar of Alpha Flight...
>
>Very True! Can cause 'problems' for the attacker! ^_^;
what a curious caveat... it obviously doesnt mean children either... nor
dead people... why include only one segment of the population that is an
exception?
Make that appropriate only to the same species, and to those able to respond
(would Hellen Keller respond to seduction as normally applied?) as well...
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:25:49 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Tell me more, Sir Vladimir...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 56
Hey, Mike S. Great list of skills for knights. I was just being a loon, mind
you. I, of all people, can appreciate the costly list of skills a "real world"
character can accumulate. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:32:05 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 57
<< Okay, THAT makes a whole lot more sense. Your average street cop (your best
buddy in law and order!) shouldn't progress too far from the baseline (a few
skill improvements here and there, some extra PRE/EGO from experience, etc.).
>>
You're on the right track, but cops accumulate a lot of experience in the
form of skill improvements, IMO. They have a lot more in the way of skills
than you think.
<< Of course cross-trained uber-cop (was in SWAT, now a Homicide Detective,
etc.) will have tons of skills. >>
To imply that a "regular" cop is a lot less trained than a cop who is
transferred to Homicide is short-sightedness. Cops don't make it to Homicide
if they're lunk heads. :D And everyday "normal" cops all have the basic
training in crime scene protection and investigation. A street cop that can
handle a robbery well but freezes up (INT Drain <LOL>) when he comes upon a
homicide scene would be pretty silly.
Just messing around here, but the bottom line is that cops have a lot more
points in skills than folks would think. There are a lot of things that cops
do that aren't as obvious as the "Driving, shooting and arresting" that the
media portrays. ;)
Of course, even with that said, there's nothing to say that cops in every
genre of game play need this many points either. Sometimes cops only need to
be skilled enough to run away and call the superheroes. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:38:30 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 58
<< THis is a key point. I'm a strong believer that Hero needs to establish a
standard 'published power level' that all published works reference. So that
when I see a 400 point super I know she's suppossed to be X times more potent
than the 'average'.>>
Hmm... in *all* published works? Should Fantasy Hero fgollow the same
guidelines as Champions, or Horror Hero? Or are you talking all books within a
certain line?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 59
> >>Make that 'appropriate' sex...after all, the Incredible Hunk should be
> >>able to use his COM attack vs, say, Northstar of Alpha Flight...
> >Very True! Can cause 'problems' for the attacker! ^_^;
> what a curious caveat... it obviously doesnt mean children either... nor
> dead people... why include only one segment of the population that is an
> exception?
> Make that appropriate only to the same species, and to those able to respond
> (would Hellen Keller respond to seduction as normally applied?) as well...
How about:
Applies when circunstances deem it would logically apply.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:51:00 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 60
> So I suppose you think that a Fast Draw modifier for different holster
types
>is excessieve, too? Sheesh. Good thing I didn't tell him about the 750 Pt.
>police cruisers! ;)
I'd expect the cost of the cruiser to be paid for by the Department rather
than the character (he doesn't own it, after all) at least the cost
wouldn't be an issue. I have seen spaceships built on fewer points, but as
you say, realistic portrayal means you have to consider (and spend points
for) details that are usually overlooked in a typical -- four-color
especially -- Hero game.
And of course the cars don't seem so "expensive" when bought in quantity:
a single 750-pt car might cost 150 pts, but if you double the number of
[identical] cars for +5 pts, even a small municipality can quickly get the
cost down to around 5 pts per car (for 32 such vehicles).
Perhaps posting a couple of excerpts on the GRG web page would answer some
of these "to many points!" comments as well as whetting appetites for the
final product?
Damon
---------------------------
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are
any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
-- Howard Aiken, American engineer,
developed the first computers for IBM
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:56:14 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 61
<< You'll be getting Haymaker #16 any day now. In it is my take on the cop
skill debate (among other skill packages). >>
What I find curious is that folks are "debating" this when they have not
read "Law & Order" and apparently have not a good idea of what the book is
intended to be. :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.137
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:04:23 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Hero Plus printed versions
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA26950
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 62
Message text written by Hero Games:
>Our solution is to use the electronic book format to bring old books back
into
>print, in cases where it would not be cost-effective to print it again.
>Electronic books are far less expensive for us to bring out, and we can
keep
>them in print forever because they don't have minimum quantities like
paper
>books do.
I noticed that you can buy printed, 3-hole punched versions of the Hero
Plus stuff, but these are really expensive. Are the prices this high
because they are bigger than your average sourcebook, or because of color
art, or some other reason? I know that the first Hero Plus book (Ultimate
Super Mage?) was supposed to be huge, but I don't know if that has been
true for later supplements. Certainly it isn't true for the old books that
have been "reprinted" in electronic format.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:11:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Power Question: Gas Cloud
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 64
Hm...I have a character who has the power to surround himself with a cloud of
gas (doing NND damage, etc). This is mostly a question about how this power
should be bought. Currently I have:
1d6 NND, continuous, area effect radius, no range, 0 END, _plus_ darkness 2"
radius (no range, linked to NND). There are a couple problems with this,
however.
a) Turning on this effect ends my phase. This is not necessarily horrifying,
but is somewhat weird.
b) While darkness is specifically permitted to follow the character about,
attacks bought 'continuous' are not. Should this be interpreted as a general
property of continuous area effect powers?
c) Generally speaking, a continuous attack does damage on the phase of the
person whose power it is, or when you enter the area. Assuming (b) is true,
what happens when you move your area on top of someone else? Also, if a
speedster were to run in and out of a continuous area effect multiple times
(say, multiple movebys) would he take damage multiple times? In addition,
_when_ during your phase does the damage occur?
d) I have also seen this effect done via 'damage shield, area effect radius'
-- in fact, I currently see an example of this on GRGs San Angelo page. This
has the advantage that (a) is not true, but it seems to violate the nature of a
damage shield -- by the way the advantage is described, it seems that area
effect damage shield would probably damage everyone nearby whenever you get
hit, which probably is not the intent.
So...any comments on how other people would do this effect?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:12:23 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 63
> Pp. 162-1677 is the only relevant section I could find. :/
<< Yep, over 1500 pages of text on the subject! ;-] >>
I'm going back in my cave. <LOL>
mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:25:18 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 65
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
John and Ron Prins writes:
> How the hell did Joe Cop spend 200 points anyways? You say most of those
> points are in skills, but once you've bought PS: Police Officer and KS:
> Police Procedures and mayyyybe KS: Law, a couple weapon FAMs and Combat
> Driving, what have you got left to buy?
A few Combat Skill Levels with handguns or firearms in general. A street
cop should be a normal person built on 25 base plus 25 in disadvantages,
plus whatever experience he may have earned.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS5kB56VRH7BJMxHAQHz4QP/Vu9NLkGsyE7zVDMRx8QBkM3djf7Mn0Gt
/0rgWc2Rk13mfDLz9rlRZ0OrVQYNlWVCg5+GD3w0pysfXHL8eLcKLonQQDbyZ/66
z+xhiBNeoKCktQ5GrrStJE8Gi5IOL3GdlUmoSL8/OZvcOnQVOni7NkSNJk88KwuY
AUeJCetj2Ig=
=8io9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:26:17 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 66
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael (Damon) or Peni R Griffin writes:
> I'd expect the cost of the cruiser to be paid for by the Department rather
> than the character (he doesn't own it, after all)
Something you forgot: "things" do not cost anyone anything in an
heroic-scale campaign. Only supers have to spend points for "things".
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS5kRZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGB+wQArLTgDK2e+YMuqV6mf3bFEqxVzpLFwufo
F6bg3yK1NkLLc8393TVWTbAQZOZS+JkUM0Ah8p8tUOERxLlP5Yt5sszz9ydAlVqp
arXtaiQorApeNK+6b3m8srVxNDg4A2h/wGVE0tfRH0OUi9ey//di1O9DNvGQgPB/
h9Lq2UCQCyM=
=UAFm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: LIST OWNER, PLEASE REPLY (was: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:28:30 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 67
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sharky Dangerthorn writes:
>> Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> wrote:
>> As I see it, the *only* reason we should consider keeping the "new" way
>> is because Rat has threatened to leave... :) :) :)
> ROFLMAO!!!!!
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy, because I agree with Donald's statement,
joke that it might be.
Except that I do not threaten.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS5ky56VRH7BJMxHAQEwlwQAucZcKT9+EPUT4xrcBpkl8/o1dmXIDYjK
0Uh51U2WaZB6jzOxM1t9CpRFT0Le6B+NO1S94QnXEbBuqoJ21JCKDpPtgf4YpD6t
iCOnefhQ+b0hPQIaZOny3ZYTpaBOirc+YBQPb4kPKSiz/xKH0iWU2pl/LhJ/NqZ/
+ELdsUu9BLs=
=khzg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Samurai
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:36:09 -0400
Lines: 32
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 68
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Bob Greenwade writes:
> Don't forget that once you buy a maneuver (in game terms), it's bought
> for all of the styles you know. (Though there's not as much crossover
> among those styles as one might think.)
To be properly pedantic (because I am good at that :) a samurai is trained
in exactly two skills: sword and poetry. This can be (and historically
was!) as simple as WF: Sword and a few combat skill levels, and an
appropriate poetry writing skill. Total cost: about 10 points.
Spears (yari) are a footman's weapon, not a samurai's weapon; ditto for
pole-arms (naginata), though those were frequently used by women as well as
foot troops. Unarmed fighting techniques would likewise be considered
beneath a samurai -- he has his sword, after all.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS5mmJ6VRH7BJMxHAQEZ4AQAn7l2XpouhYwSmjJL5JJwknuEPmjlZS41
gXWCkpKx2Q+OMBF50Qt0OZsIrz1ZySs9BasUmdtfv0IKYd8bc8oUL95lAjr2c4LJ
MCEeRXkHkeRjKk1XebZRe9gBdaMPxyOMzw2ypD8+r98G3LU7mLdPJ4WhTdeLGubC
j5aWKdjYV/I=
=dpjU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:00:50 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 74
>WF: Sword, Shield, Lance, Bow (possibly quarterstaff)
>Riding
Yes.
>High Society
Hrm...maybe.
>Tactics
No. Not every knight was a landowner with a levy of men to direct. Besides,
Tactics is one of those 'use sparingly' skills for when PCs are stumped - I
think this could fall under PS: Knight unless you're a general or something.
>KS: Dance
Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS. And not all nights
were courtiers.
>KS: Heraldry
That's what you hire a Herald for...
>KS: Chess
Another 'any idiot' skill - someone with KS: Chess should be a renowned player.
>PS: Knight
Now you're talking.
>KS: Hawking
Again, not every knight flew hawks.
>Animal Handler (horse and/or hawk)
Yeah, from their squire days...
>KS: Poetry
'Any Idiot' skill. Only if you want _quality_ poetry should you have this
skill. Heck, this assumes automatic literacy on the part of knights, which
just isn't so, especially depending on when you look at knights...
>Oratory
Nope.
>Perk: Knight
Yep.
>CSLs with weapons, martial arts and to counteract DCV minus from wearing
>armor.
>Martial Arts: sword and shield, mounted combat, great sword, pole arm
Just combat levels. There's no need to delve into Martial Arts - IMHO it
really should be saved for the 'exceptional' individuals (read: heroes and
main bad guys).
>Wealth - it was expensive to be a knight, which is why by the 15th C, many
>squires stayed squires
Yeah.
>possible skills include Paramedic, Bureacratics (for dealing with middle
>ages law - knights were the law enforcement of the time), and assorted
>skills with running a manor and/or castle
Follower: Wife (having a chatelaine is very useful...). In fact, a landed
knight would have more than a few followers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:00:53 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 73
>A run-of-the-mill 'bushi' would be maybe 10 points and be built like the
>samurai you mention. But, a proper samurai retainer, as in one given the
>right to wear a daisho, would have been trained in the use of his swords,
>often from a very young age. He also would have been trained in proper
>court behavior, riding, the use of a slew of weapons, be expected to write
>well, be a poet, possibly play a musical instrument, the tea ceremony...
>It isprobably a matter of opinion as to how much one can file under PS:
>Samurai (or cop or knight).
Indeed. I'm of the opinion that if you've got a PS, you can earn a living at
it, and if you've got a KS, you can debate the topic. For samurai, most of
the stuff you mention would be covered by PS: Samurai. Meaning that they can
perform the various tasks well enough to not embarrass themselves. You only
grab the PS/KS skills if you want to be exceptional.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:16:37 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 76
>> I'd expect the cost of the cruiser to be paid for by the Department rather
>> than the character (he doesn't own it, after all)
>
>Something you forgot: "things" do not cost anyone anything in an
>heroic-scale campaign. Only supers have to spend points for "things".
<sarcasm>
Gosh! My mistake! I'd better rush right out and tell my Star Hero players
that, thanks to their characters being built at the heroic level, they can
have that 900-pt starship for free after all. I'm sure they'll be pleased.
</sarcasm>
You sure you want to wait until Monday, Rat?
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LIST OWNER, PLEASE REPLY (was: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 78
---Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Sharky Dangerthorn writes:
>
> >> Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> wrote:
> >> As I see it, the *only* reason we should consider keeping the
"new" way
> >> is because Rat has threatened to leave... :) :) :)
>
> > ROFLMAO!!!!!
>
> Laugh while you can, monkey-boy, because I agree with Donald's
statement,
> joke that it might be.
>
> Except that I do not threaten.
So you think that the list should keep the Reply-To, just so that you
will leave? I think that's what you would be saying if you were
"agreeing" with Donald.
That aside, I see that Donald was making a joke. And I thought it was
a funny joke. We have made jokes like that around the gaming table
about particular PC's, etc. It was not meant to demean you. It was
in good fun.
I guess the bottom line here is that you can leave the list at any
time you choose. And for whatever reason. However, if you choose to
persuade others on this list to rally to your flag by threatenting to
leave, maybe you have overstated your clout.
Either way, I appreciate your contributions to the list, both the
times you have been right and the times you have been wrong. Your
insight, like everyone else's, is always appreciated.
Thanks
Jim
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 77
>
> << THis is a key point. I'm a strong believer that Hero needs to establish a
> standard 'published power level' that all published works reference. So that
> when I see a 400 point super I know she's suppossed to be X times more potent
> than the 'average'.>>
>
> Hmm... in *all* published works? Should Fantasy Hero fgollow the same
> guidelines as Champions, or Horror Hero? Or are you talking all books within a
> certain line?
Clearly all items within a given 'power level'.
I'd want it even to the point where all the 'heroic games' like Justice Inc.
and Fantasy Hero all use one concept of what a skilled normal and a heroic
normal is, and then super uses another.
The BBB had such a thing. But then the suppliments mostly failed to
follow it. Instead it looks like each author built things to their own
campaign's desires.
Your 'cops' are, unfortunatly, an example of this. While I like how you
describe them, and would do them in such detail myself; in a published work
they should be catagorized as 'skilled normals' or 'heroic normals' and then
all built within those limits.
If the current limits are breaking down in the face of the modern
preference for more detailed skill lists; then perhaps in 5th those limits
should be adjusted to reflect this.
But wherever those limits are, the published works should stick to them.
House games can then modify as needed to fit their own preferences.
Otherwise it takes a lot of work to use any given suppliment in one's
game. Work that shouldn't exist.
I should need to do the work of explaining a published work's presence
in my world. But I should have almost no work adjusting stats and house rules.
The only rules work I should need to do would be to adjust it by the
same ratios I adjust every published work to go from the standard to my own
preferences.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus printed versions
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 79
---David B Stallard wrote:
>
> Message text written by Hero Games:
> >Our solution is to use the electronic book format to bring old
books back
> into
> >print, in cases where it would not be cost-effective to print it
again.
> >Electronic books are far less expensive for us to bring out, and we
can
> keep
> >them in print forever because they don't have minimum quantities like
> paper
> >books do.
>
> I noticed that you can buy printed, 3-hole punched versions of the
Hero
> Plus stuff, but these are really expensive. Are the prices this high
> because they are bigger than your average sourcebook, or because of
color
> art, or some other reason? I know that the first Hero Plus book
(Ultimate
> Super Mage?) was supposed to be huge, but I don't know if that has
been
> true for later supplements. Certainly it isn't true for the old
books that
> have been "reprinted" in electronic format.
Many of the Hero Plus publications are larger than a typical "book"
would have been, plus it's more expensive to do small print runs than
large ones (price per book).
-=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: The REPLY-TO thing
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 80
Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
this:
1. The "nays" outweighed the "yays" ever so slightly (by one vote -
total vote count was 27).
2. A more compelling reason though is that I believe that turning it
off will generate less disharmony that leaving it on.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp.ezy.net from rcole@ezy.net server @smtp.ezy.net ip 206.43.209.2
From: rcole@ezy.net (Ron Cole)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The REPLY-TO thing
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:56:45 -0400
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA02896
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
>the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
>this:
Bleh... I don't suppose there's an option in there to set this by subscriber?
Or if there is other list software that we could switch to that does allow it?
Ron
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from qts@nildram.co.uk server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"champions listserv" <champ-l@omg.org&>
"Eric Burns" <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 20:03:32
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 70
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:29:00 -0400 (EDT), Eric Burns wrote:
>Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
>at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
>been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
>seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
>time swinging your two-handed sword...
The phrase, 'Run away!' comes to mind...
But these are HEROES - they go down swinging.
>If this is not in the rules, does anyone have any optional
>rules that they use in their own campaign that they would
>be willing to share? Much thanks...
Check out the Impairment/Disabling rules, but also note that a
character with reduced BODY has reduced max STUN too. Further, there is
a suggestion in the HSR that after being damaged, a character must make
an EGO roll at a penalty equal to the BODY that got through
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"champions listserv" <champ-l@omg.org&>
"Eric Burns" <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 20:03:32
Subject: Re: Wounded Penalties?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 71
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:29:00 -0400 (EDT), Eric Burns wrote:
>Does anyone know whether there are penalties on succeeding
>at physical actions while wounded in the Champs rules? I've
>been trying to find this in the BBB, without success. It
>seems to me if your down to 1 BODY, you should have a harder
>time swinging your two-handed sword...
The phrase, 'Run away!' comes to mind...
But these are HEROES - they go down swinging.
>If this is not in the rules, does anyone have any optional
>rules that they use in their own campaign that they would
>be willing to share? Much thanks...
Check out the Impairment/Disabling rules, but also note that a
character with reduced BODY has reduced max STUN too. Further, there is
a suggestion in the HSR that after being damaged, a character must make
an EGO roll at a penalty equal to the BODY that got through
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.132
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:03:54 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Corporations
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA03265
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Reply-To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
>>> This one is harder to call. I own it, of course, and it's one of my
favorite Champions sourcebooks. Others have loathed it, or at least not
found it especially useful.<<
The Bay City book for C:NM describes a lot of corporations in its "60
pages about 30 things" section...how would you compare this to the
Corporations book?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:47:44 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< A few Combat Skill Levels with handguns or firearms in general. A street
cop should be a normal person built on 25 base plus 25 in disadvantages,
plus whatever experience he may have earned. >>
Oh ye of little experience as a cop... ;) I'm telling you, there is no way
to build a realistically portrayed street cop in the Hero System with so few
points, unless you are willing to simply group a bunch of unrelated skills
under "PS: Cop." Note: I know this is done often for the sake of genre, and
that's okay, too. I'm just simply stating that it is not accurate. That's like
saying that a professional soldier has to be built on the same point scale.
And don't forget, there are "Skilled Normals" which have a higher point base,
but even they are not sufficient to accurately portray cops in the Hero
System.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:51:50 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Something you forgot: "things" do not cost anyone anything in an heroic-
scale campaign. Only supers have to spend points for "things". >>
Okay, so we're switching frm point "cost" to point "value." You guys are
hard to keep up with. :D
Btw, the 750 Active Point patrol car was a joke, in case anyone thought
otherwise. ;)
I love this thread!
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:56:55 EDT
Subject: Re: San Angelo
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
An expectant, would-be fan of San Angelo recently wrote:
<< I don't mean to sound snippy, but what is the deal with San Angelo?
Being a long-time Champions player (12+ yrs), I am used to product being
eternally late, but isn't San Angelo running over 6 months late? Come
on--this product sounds like something that could really revitalize superhero
gaming, and its tardiness goes beyond irritating to this buyer. When can we
expect supplements--6 months later?
I know it sounds opposite to the above, but I have been so looking forward to
this project. I really want you all to succeed and get product to the masses,
and I'm afraid that gamers just won't care if things aren't released in a
timely fashion. I mean, what [good] is the San Angelo web page when it is
full of unusable material? It would make more sense to work on the book
instead of assembling a page about a non-existent product.
I wish you luck, because I am afraid you might need it.>>
I'm sorry that you're annoyed about the product's lateness, but it's due to
circumstances beyond our control. You may not be aware that most of the
companies in the RPG industry rely on freelancers rather than in-house staff
to create products; even the largest publishers use freelancers to some
extent, and the smaller publishers (most of them) use freelancers for every
phase of production: writing, art, editing, and layout.
Whenever you use freelancers rather than employees, there will be
circumstances beyond your control. Their full-time job intervenes, or they
*get* a full-time job, or another task takes them longer than they expect.
It's unfortunate, but true. We're determined to make sure this is a quality
product, and therefore we're not going to rush it out. We've had problems with
various freelancers on this project, but even though we've missed our initial
schedule we're not going to hurry up and do a slap-dash job.
I understand that your annoyance is rooted in a desire for the product, so I
hope you'll understand that no one is more eager than I to see San Angelo see
print. But I intend to take as much time as needed to make sure the product is
worthy of the wait. Our watchword is: "People may forget about late, but
they'll always remember bad." We're already late and I certainly don't want to
compound the problem by releasing the product when it's not quite ready.
Mark @ GRG
P.S. San Angelo: City of Heroes is currently slated for release in June.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 17:09:28 -0400
Lines: 56
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Anthony Jackson writes:
> 1d6 NND, continuous, area effect radius, no range, 0 END, _plus_ darkness
> 2" radius (no range, linked to NND). There are a couple problems with
> this, however.
You probably want Personal Immunity on that if you do not have the defense
for the NND.
> a) Turning on this effect ends my phase. This is not necessarily
> horrifying, but is somewhat weird.
Try adding Damage Shield to the power. You lose the "No Range" limitation,
but it eliminates the weirdness. Some GMs might not allow the combination
of Damage Shield and AoE.
> b) While darkness is specifically permitted to follow the character
> about, attacks bought 'continuous' are not. Should this be interpreted
> as a general property of continuous area effect powers?
Normally, Darkness is targeted. As such, it normally cannot move. Damage
Shield would allow it to move, assuming the GM allows the construct in the
first place.
> c) Generally speaking, a continuous attack does damage on the phase of
> the person whose power it is, or when you enter the area. Assuming (b)
> is true, what happens when you move your area on top of someone else?
This would be a GM's judgement call. As the power stands, since it costs
you time to maintain the power, I would say that damage is done on your
action phases. If you apply Damage Shield, you do not have to spend time
to maintain it, and damage would be done on the victim' action phases.
> Also, if a speedster were to run in and out of a continuous area effect
> multiple times (say, multiple movebys) would he take damage multiple
> times? In addition, _when_ during your phase does the damage occur?
Just for everyone's sanity, I would say he takes damage only once during
the phase.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS6Kh56VRH7BJMxHAQFPmgP/Zj72e4+j/CGn3MljWu3aGJzJ9Y9CX5u1
MxPlZYfLcdtADQBLDmKTYviy0RItNRDDO+/AgT8v+jiwnpaF/oGL27tEGGAWThtS
WXprgqh8im2bKvbUBCIHu8PxK0p/j/aLd4RGvotYAKwRC6vmdZ+5xmc7mss3JItL
F2LE7Nypcmw=
=xFww
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo19.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo19.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.41
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:10:21 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Samurai
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< To be properly pedantic (because I am good at that :) a samurai is trained
in exactly two skills: sword and poetry. This can be (and historically was!)
as simple as WF: Sword and a few combat skill levels, and an appropriate
poetry writing skill. Total cost: about 10 points. >>
Oh, man. I can't let this one go by without a reply. ;)
Samurai (buke in service to a daimyo, or lord) received training in much
more than just kenjutsu and poetry. Depending on the particular era, they also
either received or themselves sought out training in naginatajutsu, etiquette,
law, classical literature, cha-no-yu (Tea Ceremony), painting, kyujutsu
(archery - a big one!), grappling in armor (not the same as Jujutsu),
hojojutsu (cord tying), suijutsu (crossing and fighting in water/rivers),
Buddhist or Shinto teachings (theology?), senjojutsu (battlefield strategy &
tactics) and Go (the game), fief management (perhaps not a formalized skill,
but an important one), monshogaku (heraldry), etc, etc, ad nauseum.
Skills were commonly tought at Buddhist temples, specialized
academies/schools (often sponsored by the local daimyo) or within the clan
itself.
Two skills indeed. ;)
<< Spears (yari) are a footman's weapon, not a samurai's weapon; ditto for
pole-arms (naginata), >>
Wrong. There are numerous examples of samurai fighting with spears (look at
Shingen Tekeda's "Wind" cavalry in the late 16th century -- considered
unstoppable, until they were stopped by a contingent of arquebus troops!
<LOL>).
Just as common was the samurai's use of the naginata in battle, a weapon
that was by no means considered inappropriate for the samurai. In fact, the
naginata was probably more common to the samurai than the ashigaru (foot
troops).
The spear was, as you point out, more common to the ashigaru (who made up
the majority of a daimyo's army) than the samurai, but the latter were by no
means unable to use it.
In fact, the ashigaru eventually became carriers of the daikyu or yumi
(Japanese longbow) as well, once almost exclusively used by the samurai (until
about the 15th century, IIRC). Did you know that the daikyu was once held in
higher esteem and regard than the samurai's katana? 'Tis true.
<< Unarmed fighting techniques would likewise be considered beneath a samurai
-- he has his sword, after all.>>
Again, this is inaccurate. Samurai were specifically trained in unarmed (but
still armored) grappling and fighting techniques. This was often the only way
a samurai could survive in case he *lost* his sword in combat. Hey, it
happens. Sometimes they would break, be dropped, etc.
Love this thread, too! :D Man, two threads right up my alley in one day.
I'm in heaven!
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:13:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
To: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Donald Tsang writes:
> Area Effect Damage Shield works fine; AE changes the nature of the Damage
> Shield so it's no longer "you hit me, you take damage", but rather, "you
> get close to me, you take damage". At +1 1/2, it's not terrible...
Hm..as you see, the reply-to header has now been removed ;). As for your
comment: while this is not a horribly unreasonable way to interpret area effect
damage shield, it certainly isn't supported by the rules....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo22.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo22.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.66
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:22:40 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>High Society
<< Hrm...maybe. >>
A Knight was expected to know how to behave and understand (and extoll) the
virtues of chivalry. I think High Society is very approrpiate for true
Knights. Now knaives... they could get away without having it. ;)
>KS: Dance
<< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS. And not all
nights were courtiers. >>
Do you know how to Waltz? Two-step? Does everyone you know know how? Just
wondering. I certainly don't. ;)
>KS: Heraldry
<< That's what you hire a Herald for... >>
Perhaps a herald carries the standard, but wouldn't the knight need to be
able to recognize the heraldic symbols of others?
>KS: Hawking
<< Again, not every knight flew hawks. >>
I would agree.
>Animal Handler (horse and/or hawk)
<< Yeah, from their squire days... >>
Perhaps a Familiarity would suffice, especially if it had been a long time
since the skill was practiced?
>KS: Poetry
<< 'Any Idiot' skill. Only if you want _quality_ poetry should you have this
skill. >>
I think that was the intent.
>Perk: Knight
<< Yep. >>
Low Justice?
>possible skills include Paramedic,
Methinks Paramedic might be out of place. Perhaps not. I'm not honed up in
my knowledge of medieval medicine. :/
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:29:49 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Corporations
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:03 PM 4/10/1998 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Message text written by Bob Greenwade
>>>> This one is harder to call. I own it, of course, and it's one of my
>favorite Champions sourcebooks. Others have loathed it, or at least not
>found it especially useful.<<
>
>The Bay City book for C:NM describes a lot of corporations in its "60
>pages about 30 things" section...how would you compare this to the
>Corporations book?
For myself, I wouldn't. The only reason for that, though, is that I
don't (yet) own any of the C:NM stuff. Once I've bought all the C:NM
books, though (which I fully do intend to do), I could give you a
comparison.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
> You probably want Personal Immunity on that if you do not have the defense
> for the NND.
I do, and I know.
> Try adding Damage Shield to the power. You lose the "No Range" limitation,
> but it eliminates the weirdness. Some GMs might not allow the combination
> of Damage Shield and AoE.
Also, it doesn't seem to exactly match what damage shield does, not to mention
being redundant with continuous.
>
> Normally, Darkness is targeted. As such, it normally cannot move. Damage
> Shield would allow it to move, assuming the GM allows the construct in the
> first place.
A specific comment is made that darkness _can_ be created 'around' the person
whose power it is, and _will_ then follow them about -- and that to follow
other people about, you need 'usable against others'.
>
> This would be a GM's judgement call. As the power stands, since it costs
> you time to maintain the power, I would say that damage is done on your
> action phases. If you apply Damage Shield, you do not have to spend time
> to maintain it, and damage would be done on the victim' action phases.
Continuous powers do not require time to maintain -- this is the point of
continuous. If I want to do damage every phase in a location and am willing to
spend phases doing that, I can do it for a +0 advantage ;).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Michael Surbrook" <susano@access.digex.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 21:33:20
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:48:54 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
>
>> << Although he won't have all the martial arts packages..., there are still a
>> number of things he would kow and be trained in that could push his point
>> total way about most Fantasy Hero starting character levels.>>
>>
>> Like what? How to employ sheep's bladders to prevent earthquakes? ;)
>
>lesse:
>
>WF: Sword, Shield, Lance, Bow (possibly quarterstaff)
>Riding
>High Society
So far so good.
>Tactics
Not to start with.
>KS: Dance
Doubtful
>KS: Heraldry
Ditto. *Differentiating* devices is *much* easier than knowing all the
histories - lke recognising national flags.
>KS: Chess
Nope
>PS: Knight
Yes
>KS: Hawking
Optional; for wealthier ones.
>Animal Handler (horse and/or hawk)
Yes.
>KS: Poetry
He's a samurai, not a bard.
>Oratory
No.
>Perk: Knight
Yes.
>CSLs with weapons, martial arts and to counteract DCV minus from wearing
>armor.
Not to start with.
>Martial Arts: sword and shield, mounted combat, great sword, pole arm
Yes, but primarily relying on Str.
>Wealth - it was expensive to be a knight, which is why by the 15th C, many
>squires stayed squires
Many took to raiding. The Crusades, anyone?
>possible skills include Paramedic, Bureacratics (for dealing with middle
>ages law - knights were the law enforcement of the time),
Perk: Low Justice 1 pt
and assorted
>skills with running a manor and/or castle
Left to the wife. But a PC with a castle would be a *major* player. He
shouldn't start with one.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:35:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Hmm... in *all* published works? Should Fantasy Hero fgollow the same
> guidelines as Champions, or Horror Hero? Or are you talking all books within
a
> certain line?
<< Your 'cops' are, unfortunatly, an example of this. While I like how you
describe them, and would do them in such detail myself; in a published work
they should be catagorized as 'skilled normals' or 'heroic normals' and then
all built within those limits. >>
The limits for each genre should be described, I agree. What you are failing
to acknowledge, however, is that "Law & Order" wil include notes on cop
campaigns, as well as different ways to write-up cops for campaigns of
different genres.
<< If the current limits are breaking down in the face of the modern
preference for more detailed skill lists; then perhaps in 5th those limits
should be adjusted to reflect this. >>
A good suggestion.
<< But wherever those limits are, the published works should stick to them.
House games can then modify as needed to fit their own preferences. >>
But house games can already modify as needed. Still, I think that guidelines
are good, but constraining all published works to them may or may not be best
for the individual product. After all, there are exceptions to every rule, and
the Hero System rules are no exception. Er... uh... crud. Now my head hurts
again. ;)
<< Otherwise it takes a lot of work to use any given suppliment in one's game.
Work that shouldn't exist. >>
I think there will always be some work involved in customizing a product for
use within an existing campaign. Perhaps staying close to published standards
would help cut down on this.
<< The only rules work I should need to do would be to adjust it by the same
ratios I adjust every published work to go from the standard to my own
preferences. >>
That seems a reasonable expectation.
But what if the point levels of characters in a product are already in line
with the standards, but it is the author who feels that they need to be so
high for that particular campaign? In other words, what if the author's vision
is that the characters *need* to be that powerful given the currently existing
standards? Then what? Do you simply delete the character because the concept
can't be fit neatly into the established point limits?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: SPD Rules [Long]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:19:30 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here are Puma's house rules for SPD.
Puma will now hide under rock for avoid flames! ^_^;
Speed:
Speed is not limited to a maximum of 12; it can
have any value. The cost does not change for speeds over 12. With a
speed above 12, a character will act more than once (have more than one
phase) in a given segment. When a character has a speed higher than 12,
it acts at its speed, and then again at its SPD-12, then SPD-24, etc.
until what's left is 12 or less. Additional speed is figured via the
speed chart, with the segments determined by SPD, SPD-12, etc.
Example:
Shasti has a speed of 20 and has phases as shown
below:
Segments: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12
Speed 20: X X X X X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X X X
On segment one, Shasti has one phase and acts
before anyone with a SPD less than 20. On segment two, she has two
phases. This means that she has an entire phase to act before anyone
else (that has only one phase on that segment) can act! If another
character acted twice that segment, the one with the highest SPD would
go first (as usual). For her second phase on that segment, she acts as
if she was 20 - 12 = SPD 8. Therefore, someone with a SPD of 9 would get
to use their phase in that segment before Shasti could use her second
phase in that segment.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 18:58:30 -0400
Lines: 45
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Anthony Jackson writes:
> Also, it doesn't seem to exactly match what damage shield does,
The way I see it, the two advantages, Area of Effect and Damage Shield, are
not really exclusive. Damage Shield allows you to use the NND in a vaguely
defensive fashion -- no attack roll, constant effect, hits anyone that hits
you. AoE does not negate the Damage Shield effect; instead, it has the
effect of expanding the definition of what it means to attack you to
include "coming within so many hexes of you".
> not to mention being redundant with continuous.
That is an interesting point... if Continuing Charges requires that an
instant power be made Continuous, should Damage Shield have the same
requirement? Or is this subsumed as part of the trade-off with the "free"
No Range limitation?
[...]
> Continuous powers do not require time to maintain -- this is the point of
> continuous.
A Continuous power used offensively requires a half-phase action (I would
want to double-check the BBB to be sure whether or not it counts as an
attack action) to maintain it, and it requires line of sight to the target
of the power (moot for this particular power). If you wish to "detach" the
power, you also need Uncontrolled.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS6kA56VRH7BJMxHAQF6sgQAxbpTwUHDLtLyZWKEiEXfZ0dhtB4/gOfR
vpm+ovHravnN8KqASZv90ukmDT2s4ZyzVcPtR8bhjmIWXvM865MQQL1YRHm0mDy2
oBs1W2hhsmSA527s0tPCaMazF/x02bIVKhCYYp0ldHNdJuFqn7Pnr2YOw0ynQLOw
uP4nlhCoEF4=
=g2tn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:37:01 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Plus printed versions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/10/98 11:09:49 AM, you wrote:
>I noticed that you can buy printed, 3-hole punched versions of the Hero
>Plus stuff, but these are really expensive. Are the prices this high
>because they are bigger than your average sourcebook, or because of color
>art, or some other reason? I know that the first Hero Plus book (Ultimate
>Super Mage?) was supposed to be huge, but I don't know if that has been
>true for later supplements. Certainly it isn't true for the old books that
>have been "reprinted" in electronic format.
These prices represent the added cost of taking the book to a local copy store
and getting a copy made (double-sided, 3-hole drilled). We don't make any
additional profit on those copies; we offer them as an added service to our
customers.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net from darkwraith@worldnet.att.net server @mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net ip 204.127.131.34
From: "potroast@theoven" <darkwraith@worldnet.att.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:46:26 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << How the hell did Joe Cop spend 200 points anyways? ...once you've
bought
> PS: Police Officer and KS: Police Procedures and mayyyybe KS: Law, a
couple
> weapon FAMs and Combat Driving, what have you got left to buy? >>
>
> There is KS: Civil Law 8-, AK: Patrol Area, Forensic Science 8-, and
much,
> much more. Again, this is not intended, necessarily, to be the write-up
you
> *must* use for your NPC cops. I'm talking a real-world big city cop
expressed
> in Hero System terms.
>
> Steve Peterson, Bruce Harlick, Steve Long and a host of other Hero folk
have
> seen some of this material and I assure you that none of them said "Whoa!
Too
> many points! Cut them in half!" <LOL>
>
> << Joe Cop is a skilled normal; the higher-ups (detectives, etc.)
shouldn't
> break out beyond 100 points IMHO. >>
>
> As per the existing Hero System guidelines, no, they shouldn't.
However,
> we're breaking those boundaries because they are not realistic when
exploring
> cops as full blown characters. Again, think of this books as "The
Ultimate Law
> Enforcer" if it helps to keep it in perspective. ;)
>
> << Look at it this way; if Joe Cop is built on 200 points, if my
character
> wants to play a Cop who gained super powers, he'll have...50 points worth
of
> super-powers and attributes. >>
>
> That's fine and well, but this book is designed for more than just a
four-
> color Champions campaign. And the players do not have to take our
published
> materials as mandatory. It will be a "realistically accurate" portrayal
of law
> enforcement in Hero System terms.
>
> So I suppose you think that a Fast Draw modifier for different holster
types
> is excessieve, too? Sheesh. Good thing I didn't tell him about the 750
Pt.
> police cruisers! ;)
>
> Mark @ GRG
I do believe that there is a everymans' skill roll for info that the char
is expected to know you, where refering to KS: police procedures, that
covers a lot of ground. If you insist on specific skills for each
knowledge, image writing up a tax accountant (give Dr D a run for his
money) how about your average fast food worker "I know how to drop fryes in
32 different restraunts KS fryes) "Fear me now, Legion of Doom" What it
boils down to is that once you assign a N/PC to cophood, you do not need to
write up everything unless you want the char to be better in that field,
then most. That should go for most PS's
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from dpawtows@access.digex.net server ql8n./ZPr9g26@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
OK, so I'd prefer to also throw in a plain ACSII text version, too.....
Daniel Pawtowski
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mailhost.infi.net from asahoshi@nr.infi.net server @mailhost.infi.net ip 208.131.167.6
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 20:54:24 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob Greenwade bob.greenwade@klock.com 4/9/98 7:32 PM
> No flames from this corner. I like it. It's finally something concrete
>that can be done with COM.
I agree!
> I'd only make two substantial alterations. The first is that the
>attacker has to declare a COM Attack to do it, unless the target has some
>Psychological Limitation or other reason for an automatic effect.
<snip>
In a few games I've been in, we've used casual PRE, once PRE gets high
enough
its a constant attack whether its willed or not. I'd suggest that COM
could
be treated the same way. In both cases, a normal never has more than a
2d6
attack causual attack (1/2 of 20 = 10 AP) that a normal level of PRE or
EGO
easily overcomes, but some heros have high enough stats that a casual
attack
does matter. A 30 PRE would give a 15 AP or 3d6 attack which would have
a
minor effect on a normal in normal situation, etc. Admittedly, we usually
didn't roll for these effects but just figure them in as story telling
benchmarks.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-10.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @hil-img-10.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.140
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:13:27 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: More book reviews, please
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id XAA19604
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
> picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the text
> from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the lastest
> copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus Color
> 600.) I will never buy another Hero Plus product until it is available
in
> another (read: better) format.
I had a major problem trying to get TUSM to print out: the illustrations
would print fine but any and all text was fuzzed out like the horizontal
hold was screwed up. What I finally discovered (by accident) was that if I
exported the pages to by fax software and printed it from there it would
print fine (albeit in black-and-white). Thus I was able to print it out in
a roundabout fashion, but it took a LONG time. I have no idea if the
problem was in the Hero product, the Acrobat software or my printer driver.
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-5.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @arl-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.135
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:13:36 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: SPD Rules [Long]
To: Champions Mailing List A <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id XAA19627
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Speed:
> Speed is not limited to a maximum of 12; it can
> have any value. The cost does not change for speeds over 12. With a
> speed above 12, a character will act more than once (have more than one
> phase) in a given segment.
I've actually considered something similar for my campaign, although I've
never gone to the effort of codifying it simply because I don't think any
of my players would be willing to spend the huge amount of points it would
take to implement it. The highest Speed I've ever given a villain is 10 (a
sword wielding speedster lifted from a V&V supplement); other than that one
case, I don't think I've ever gone higher than 6 or 7.
Have any players in Puma's game ever bought a Speed higher than 12?
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: FAQ/POC update
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:43:34 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Just a minor update to the FAQ/POC to reflect the recent changes in the
Universe as we know it.
HTML version:
<URL:http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/champions.html>
text version:
<URL:ftp://ftp.ccs.neu.edu/pub/people/ratinox/champ/champions.faq>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNS7m3p6VRH7BJMxHAQHojQQAguF5aPcChNkkE8f+h4vfQ9L5wggWuQRx
Kr9wnAcqvh+hSMW3rUTAcy9widaGKhV7+skcwFD4hTjrxl+2lOPHcUDkHjEVoTgm
nsM1sewWctd0B1azDWbD3LzR6uzvNS1gF6a0ro2ljRde0Gb8/kx/obsBxo4tTHu0
toYr8uxyDis=
=drwU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.teleport.com from cptspith@teleport.com server @mail1.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.26
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:14:03 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > > That's a silly reason to give up valuable Hero System discussion....
> >
> > You are right, it is silly. So is a mailing list that says I have to go
> > out of my way to properly direct my replies. I have better things to do
> > with my time.
>
> Which is why it's easier to have the reply to go to the list, thus
> allowing the message to automaticly go to the list, and only the list. Which
> can be changed manually on those rare messages that don't go to the list.
I get the impression that apparently, Mr. Rat replies to individuals
more often that to the list, thus thinks that to accomodate him
properly, the Reply To: header should reflect this proportion. But I
also get the impression that MOST participants on a mailing list fully
intend to reply to messages from the list TO the list at large MOST of
the time; I know I do. This idea is insinuated by the comments of some
who ask for specific information and invite respondents to answer via
private e-mail to save on list bandwidth. If individual replies were
the norm, the list would have fewer that 60 messages a day, and it would
be redundant to mention private e-mail replies in request postings.
As for me, I really don't care, since I have an Address Book with the
List address easily accessible. However, I would VOTE for a reply to
the list default. And as far as rejected user mail bouncing to the
list, I would think that the moderator should be able to unsubscribe the
appropriate user as soon as he notices it happening, leaving the culprit
responsible for resubscribing (and taking measures to prevent such an
occurence again, possibly as a prerequisite of resubscribing...). In
fact, responsible participants often unsubscribe from the list before
extended abscences to avoid just such an occurence, and resubscribe when
they return.
--
"SPOOOOOOOONN!!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.teleport.com from cptspith@teleport.com server @mail1.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.26
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:27:38 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reply-To headers and Junk Threads
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Maybe I am different from most people on the list. I end up getting
> my 100+ champ-l emails, and then I have to sort the mailbox by
> subject...primarily so I can summarily delete 75 of those messages
> that are basically junk-threads. Call me whatever you want, but I
> think that this is just a waste.
I do exactly the same thing, but it has nothing to do with "junk"
threads. Once I read a few posts of a particular topic, often I decide
that it is not of interest to me, so I delete the thread. Besides, why
do you assume that people will respond privately more often with the old
ReplyTo:? I saw just as much traffic and just as many Junk Threads when
the RepltTo: line had to be personally directed to the list. Generally,
people in a discussion group (which this is) tend to want to be heard
(read) by everyone, so reply to the list by habit, if not actually by
default. I really think that the difference in traffic is negligible,
bacause most people will reply to the list bacause it is a list
discussion, not simply because it is convenient.
And yes, I responded to the list, not privately, because others
besides you may wish to debate or support the point I have just
presented.
--
"SPOOOOOOOONN!!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:40:51 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I do believe that there is a everymans' skill roll for info that the char
is expected to know, where refering to KS: police procedures, that covers a
lot of ground. If you insist on specific skills for each knowledge... What it
boils down to is that once you assign a N/PC to cophood, you do not need to
write up everything unless you want the char to be better in that field, then
most. >>
For some aspects of the law enforcement character PS works fine. For
example, report writing, using the police radio and knowing the different
codes used on the radio (unit call signs, event codes, how NOT to use voice
inflection or a variance in tone or to yell, etc.), reading a Thomas Bros. map
book, flipping on the siren, booking a prisoner into the jail, the proper way
to put on handcuffs, department policies (on use of force, prisoner transport,
etc.), and so on...
However, there are some areas in which PS: Peace Officer simply does not
cover it. There are some skills which are clearly defined as separate skills
which are more than appropriate for officers. These include (minimum
expenditure noted at the end of each entry):
Area/City Knowledge: Knowing your patrol area better than the average
citizen is darned important. This would include knowing crime trends; knowing
the common business and residential targets for robbery, burglary, and home
invasion; knowing which streets are under repair so you don't suddenly find
yourself on a dead end when rolling Code 3 to a rape in progress; being able
to give good directions to citizens when asked, etc. (2 Pts)
Bureaucratics: Law enforcement is a bureaucracy, like any other government
entity. Cops work in this environment and deal with citizen complaints about
it routinely. Need I say more? (3 Pts)
Combat Skill Levels: Part of the law enforcement profession is regular
qualification on the range. Some would argue that this just maintains
fundamental skill levels with the primary weapon (the sidearm). However, over
time, it gradually adds to an officer's level of comfort with said weapon as
well as their prooficiency, IMO. Plus, many cops shoot with more frequency
than the required minimum. (2 Pts for "+1 w/Personal Sidearm")
Combat Driving: If anyone thinks cops don't qualify for this skill they are
kidding themselves. Our local EVOC or the Emergency vehicle Ops Course
(includes skidpan training, pursuit driving, defensive driving, and an
obstacle course) is a required part of the basic academy. Every patrol officer
I've known has been involved in a number of high speed pursuits within the
last few months. (3 Pts)
Concealment: Cops make arrest. Part of the arrest procedure is the search.
There are also building searches for suspects, searches for bombs, probation
searches, area searches (for suspects, bodies, evidence, etc.)... There are a
number of different types of searches, but they usually come down to one
thing: "...find things that other people have hidden." (3 Pts)
Conversation: Cops interrogate suspects. They question witnesses. In both
cases, some subjects are less than cooperative. Some play games Some are
flippin' nuts. In all three cases (and others) the Conversation Skill is
appropriate. (1 Pt Familiarity)
Criminology: IMO, peace officers by and large "know how to look for clues,
dust for fingerprints, examine evidence,... search through files, and so on."
I will concede that not all cops know how to do ballistics tests and examine
records, but as this is a catch all skill for an "investigator," it is very
appropriate for cops, even if only at the Familiarity (8-) level. (1 Pt)
Deduction: Some GMs use this skill and some don't. However, "this is the
classic detective's skill." However, it allows other skills as complimentary,
and it is deserving of at least a Familiarity level for basic cops. (1 Pt)
Forensic Medicine: I'm not advocating a full blown 12- or 14- here, but a
Familiarity is appropriate given the description: "...make inferences from a
corpse about the cause of death, how long the individual has been dead, and so
forth." I concede that cops should not be able to perform an autopsy, but this
is a bit of an inclusive skill. I suppose it could be argued that Criminology
would suffice, but I disagree. (1 Pt)
Knowledge: This covers a variety of subjects that can be bought for the
officer. Remember, "Players define how specific their Knowledge Skills are.
The more general the Knowledge Skill, the less the character will know about
specifics." Again, some GMs might prefer to lump many of these together into
one skill, but they *can* be broken down in to separate and completely
legitimate skills, such as Criminal Law/Penal Code, Civil Law (familiarity
only), Criminal Groups, Law Enforcement World, Local Criminals/MOs, Police
Procedures/Dept Policy, Speed Estimation (of moving vehicles),
Radar/"Speedgun" Operation (the theory and "hows & whys" of radar; very good
for court), Patrol Area/Beat, City/County Knowledge, Narcotics/Drugs, and so
on. This is probably the area most likely to spur debate. (6 Pts)
Martial Arts: Using the UMA, I wrote up the "Arrest Control" Martial Arts
Style. It's an accurate simulation (IMO) of some of the common tactics and
maneuvers (based on Bob Koga's style) taught to many peace officers across
this country. This is one of the costlier items on the list, and includes "Use
style with Baton/PR-24." What's a PR-24? Well, that would fall under "Weapon
Familiarity." ;) (10 Pts)
Paramedic: This is a no-brainer. Cops are, by law (at least in California),
considered "first responders" and this is required training. (3 Pts)
Persuasion: Cops routinely have to deal with situations that don't justify
the use of force. Instead they have to "convince, persuade, or influence
individuals." Of course, this *does* include the occasional lie, although for
good reasons -- "white lies," like convincing the mental subject that you'll
bring their invisible puppy along, too (get the book to find out more). (1 Pt)
Professional Skill: No argument that this is a requirement. However, the
specific job title should reflect the character's employer and status. For
example, I suggest different PSs, like: Federal Agent, Peace Officer, Police
Officer, Deputy Sheriff, USAF Security Policeman, USA/USMC MP, USN Shore
Patrol/Master at Arms, USPS Inspector, and so on. Sure, there is no
appreciable difference between them in game terms, but we're talking flavor
here. ;) (2 Pts)
Range Skill Levels: Same comments as the "Combat Skill Levels" above. (2
Pts)
Science Skills: As a general rule this one os not applicable, EXCEPT for
Criminal Psychology or just plain vanilla Psychology. Now, I'm not suggesting
that all cops are certified counselors, but if you've ever been on a ride-a-
long you know that that's what they spend a LOT of their time on the job
doing... counseling. I'm serious. Cops have to diffuse situations and deal
with issues that the people involved are unable to deal with. I could go on
and on about this, but suffice it to say that a Familiarity in either or both
of the aforementioned skills is very appropriate for cops. (1 Pt)
Shadowing: This is more of a skill that is acquired through "on-the-job
training," but I think it's appropriate for cops. Yes, for basic patrol cops.
Although it's often difficult to be sneaky while following a suspect car while
you're in a big white Caprice with a red and blue light-bar on the roof, but
hey... that's a modifier not something that rules out possessing the skill. ;)
(1 Pts)
Stealth: I assure you that trying to enter a building to which you've
responded to a silent burgalry alarm requires a lot of guts... and stealth. It
doesn't pay to noisily set up a permiter on a silent robbery alarm at a fast
food joint, risking that the suspect will spot you and take hostages. Stealth
comes in handy quite often on the job. And yes, it is part of training. (3
Pts)
Streetwise: Another OJT skill, primarily, but even rookie officers should
have a Familiarity in this. Other Packages receive increases to the Skill,
however (Detectives, Veteran Officers, etc.). (1 Pt)
Systems Operation: Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but this could be applied to
police radios, radar/speed-detecting equipment, and the like. This one's a
wobbler. ;) (0 Pts)
Tactics: A Familiarity in this skill in not unreasonable, given the training
that most officers receive in "crowd control" and handling riots (be they on
the street or in a jail/prison). (1 Pt)
Transport Familiarity: Some GMs don't require this skill to be purchased for
common vehicles (cars, motorcycles), and some do. I list it here in any case.
(0 Pts, Everyman Skill)
Weapon Familiarity: Common weapons (from the list) in use by patrol officers
include: (under Common Melee Weapons) Straight Baton or PR-24 (side-handled
baton/similar to a tonfa); (Small Arms Groups) Pistols and Shoulder Arms
(shotguns). Of course, SWAT members get a lot more goodies to be familiar
with. ;) (3 Pts)
Weaponsmith (Slugthrowers): Another debatable one. It includes "maintaining
and repairing" the weapon. Perhaps a Familiarity is in order here? I believe
so, but I would limit it to only those with which the officer already has the
WF. (1 Pt)
Well, that's the basics, and I did not include skills from the various
"upgrade" Packages (like SWAT, Detective, etc.). Assuming only the
minimum/base costs for these skills, the total so far is 52 Pts.
What about Perks? Does not a typical patrol cop have a few neighborhood or
departmental contacts? (0 Pts min)
Btw, I have written a new Perk: Fringe benefit -- Local/State Police Powers.
And for those who think I am just out to rack up a tubload of point costs,
this Perk *includes* the right to carry a concealed weapon off duty (i.e., no
extra Pts for Weapon Permit or Concealed Weapon Permit). (2 Pts)
And I also did not include a 1 Pt "License to practice Profession," despite
the fact that officers must be certified by the state and possess a "Peace
Officers Standards of Training (POST)" certificate to be hired... ;)
Well, that's a total of 54 Pts for just the bare bones basic Skills and
Perks, and does not include Stats, other specialty Packages or any equipment
(if you have the character pay for those; some campaigns/genres don't require
it)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net from darkwraith@worldnet.att.net server @mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net ip 204.127.131.35
From: "potroast@theoven" <darkwraith@worldnet.att.net>
To: "GoldRushG" <GoldRushG@aol.com&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:21:43 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
----------
> From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 1:40 AM
>
> << I do believe that there is a everymans' skill roll for info that the
char
> is expected to know, where refering to KS: police procedures, that covers
a
> lot of ground. If you insist on specific skills for each knowledge...
What it
> boils down to is that once you assign a N/PC to cophood, you do not need
to
> write up everything unless you want the char to be better in that field,
then
> most. >>
>
> For some aspects of the law enforcement character PS works fine. For
> example, report writing, using the police radio and knowing the different
> codes used on the radio (unit call signs, event codes, how NOT to use
voice
> inflection or a variance in tone or to yell, etc.), reading a Thomas
Bros. map
> book, flipping on the siren, booking a prisoner into the jail, the proper
way
> to put on handcuffs, department policies (on use of force, prisoner
transport,
> etc.), and so on...
>
> However, there are some areas in which PS: Peace Officer simply does
not
> cover it. There are some skills which are clearly defined as separate
skills
> which are more than appropriate for officers. These include (minimum
> expenditure noted at the end of each entry):
>
I am willing to concede that a well-rounded peace officer has those
skills, a vast majority are taught at a police, or other appropropriate,
academy making them everyman (read 8-/ 0 points) with modifers on often
repeated tasks. The rest of their skills and levels are experience.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:14:12 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << Otherwise it takes a lot of work to use any given suppliment in one's game.
> Work that shouldn't exist. >>
>
> I think there will always be some work involved in customizing a product for
> use within an existing campaign. Perhaps staying close to published standards
> would help cut down on this.
Yeah it would.
> << The only rules work I should need to do would be to adjust it by the same
> ratios I adjust every published work to go from the standard to my own
> preferences. >>
>
> That seems a reasonable expectation.
>
> But what if the point levels of characters in a product are already in line
> with the standards, but it is the author who feels that they need to be so
> high for that particular campaign? In other words, what if the author's vision
> is that the characters *need* to be that powerful given the currently existing
> standards? Then what? Do you simply delete the character because the concept
> can't be fit neatly into the established point limits?
>
No problem. Here's how I was seeing this:
The publisher sets a standard series of power level guidelines.
Something like this (in terms of supers, other genre's would have their
own lists I presume):
Sidekick level = A
Low Power = B
Street level hero = C (points, or DC/CV/Pd&Ed/etc)
Standard Super = D
Powerful Super = E
World saver = F
Galaxy saver = G
'beyonder class' = H
So, as a writer, let's say I have a villian 'Dr. Conquest' who's
supposed to be a would be world conqurer. When I ajust him from the way
I've used him in my games to the published format, I look at the power
level guidlines for catagory 'F' and make him equivalent to this.
Then another author makes an NPC hero team who are a bunch of street
level vigilantes, but in his house game, he uses about 6 times the
number of points I do in my house game. But he considers these hero's to
still be low power street level, after all, even the normals in his game
are built this way.
So when adjusting his work for publication, rather than send it off as
it appears in his game, he adjusts that team to match the guidlines of
catagory 'C'.
This way, when the consumer goes out and buys both books, he instantly
knows how Dr. Conquest SHOULD compare to that hero team. So that if his
own game uses an entirely diferent idea of what is needed at each power
level, he at least knows where each of these published NPC's should
fall.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: global stat alteration
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:37:33 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
huh. That's the best subject line i can think of- what i'm on about
is grabbing all the pc's and making uniform changes for some reason-
like say they spend a few adventures on a low gravity world, or maybe
in another dimension where they don't have to eat. I'm interested in
wether people make these changes on a stat level(higher str for low
gravity)
, or externalise it(lower object weight), or ignore it. One example i did
of this
is a fantasy campaign that evolved into a chamions setting after the heroes
crossed worlds. Turns out their race is slightly bigger and more dense than
'normal' humans, an adjustment which put them up to superheroic level
power. Has anyone else done this sort of thing, and if so, what was the
'time frame' involved?
"Enslave humanity willya?"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Standardization (Re: Genocide and Mutants)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:45:16 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I'd put a limit on points totals, and maybe the type of powers useable
(no stopsigns for street level, ect), but i think active points limits
would be a bad idea. Dunno if anyone's suggested them, but i
think points totals are sufficient for pulling things into line.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5,7-9,17-19
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:54:12 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
> picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the
text
> from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the lastest
> copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus
Color
> 600.) I will never buy another Hero Plus product until it is available
in
> another (read: better) format.
The only problem I've had printing Eye for an Eye (other than punching
holes in the pages) is an occasional streakiness, and that's probably
because I'm breaking in a rechargable inkjet cartridge. (I'm certain my
b&w printer would make a hash of the full color cover, but I wasn't
really planning to print that anyway.) Of course, I'm also running
Windows 3.11, which might be part of the difference -- I would go into
some of the comments I've heard about Windows 95, but I believe this is a
G-rated list :) .
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4,6,8-9,16-18
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:54:13 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Persuasion: Cops routinely have to deal with situations that don't
justify
>the use of force. Instead they have to "convince, persuade, or influence
>individuals." Of course, this *does* include the occasional lie,
although for
>good reasons -- "white lies," like convincing the mental subject that
you'll
>bring their invisible puppy along, too (get the book to find out more).
(1 Pt)
There's a story in one of the America's Dumbest Criminals books that's a
great example of this. I loaned that book to a friend, but IIRC a patrol
car was called to a nursing home because a 90+ year old World War vet
hadn't been taking his medication and got a bit wild -- not violent, just
noisy. I'd argue the police sergeant who showed up had the full skill,
not just familiarity, but by the time someone is ready for the sergeant's
exam they've racked up some XPs.
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:01:49 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Combat Skill Levels: Part of the law enforcement profession is regular
>qualification on the range. Some would argue that this just maintains
>fundamental skill levels with the primary weapon (the sidearm). However, over
>time, it gradually adds to an officer's level of comfort with said weapon as
>well as their prooficiency, IMO. Plus, many cops shoot with more frequency
>than the required minimum. (2 Pts for "+1 w/Personal Sidearm")
I won't strongly contest the presence of this Skill, but since you said
"over time, it gradually adds", doesn't that imply that the baseline cop
will *not* have CSLs, placing this into in the category of things that
should be added on later?
> Knowledge: This covers a variety of subjects that can be bought for the
>officer. Remember, "Players define how specific their Knowledge Skills are.
>The more general the Knowledge Skill, the less the character will know about
>specifics." Again, some GMs might prefer to lump many of these together into
>one skill, but they *can* be broken down in to separate and completely
>legitimate skills, such as Criminal Law/Penal Code, Civil Law (familiarity
>only), Criminal Groups, Law Enforcement World, Local Criminals/MOs, Police
>Procedures/Dept Policy, Speed Estimation (of moving vehicles),
>Radar/"Speedgun" Operation (the theory and "hows & whys" of radar; very good
>for court), Patrol Area/Beat, City/County Knowledge, Narcotics/Drugs, and so
>on. This is probably the area most likely to spur debate. (6 Pts)
I don't think I'd give Officer Everyman a Speed Estimation ability; if I
did, I'd base it on a Talent rather than a KS. Bob Greenwade uses a
generic Talent called "Exact Measure" in TUSV, which is defined when bought
as being applicable to distance, angle, mass, velocity, light levels or
whatever. If I thought every cop needed to have this ability, I'd give
them a limited version of this (Approximate Measure) applicable to the
vehicle velocity. However it's modeled, it sounds more like something you
get from experience, though. Perhaps the GM should award bonus XPTS over
the course of the campaign in the form of abilities like this that "every
good cop" will automatically learn in the course of performing his normal
duties.
> Streetwise: Another OJT skill, primarily, but even rookie officers should
>have a Familiarity in this. Other Packages receive increases to the Skill,
>however (Detectives, Veteran Officers, etc.). (1 Pt)
Another good candidate for Bonus XPTS. I agree the rookie should start
with a FAM, but any cop worth his salt will build this into a Skill over
time. I'd find this obvious enough that as a GM I'd set aside 1 XP every
few adventures and eventually just award the cop PC a full-blown Streetwise
Skill.
> Weaponsmith (Slugthrowers): Another debatable one. It includes "maintaining
>and repairing" the weapon. Perhaps a Familiarity is in order here? I believe
>so, but I would limit it to only those with which the officer already has the
>WF. (1 Pt)
The rules are a little vague on this, but I generally assume a WF covers
the knowledge of routine cleaning and maintenance. Weaponsmith allows
designing, building and ful repair of the weapon type, which seems too
much. I expect a character with WF: small arms to know how to clean the
weapon and clear a jam.
> What about Perks? Does not a typical patrol cop have a few neighborhood or
>departmental contacts? (0 Pts min)
Acquired during his time on the beat, yes. Not on his first day out of the
academy.
> And I also did not include a 1 Pt "License to practice Profession," despite
>the fact that officers must be certified by the state and possess a "Peace
>Officers Standards of Training (POST)" certificate to be hired... ;)
I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice.
Not much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you are.
Personally, in many cases I'd be happy to play using the PS: Cop and not
much else, but only if the GM agreed that the PS covers 95% of what you've
listed above. I think most GMs would balk at the PS coverage being that
extensive, in which case I'd have to go with something much like what
you've described above.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Acrobat
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:10:13 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Acrobat refuses to print my copy of Eye for an Eye. Any page with a
> picture and headings only prints the heading. You can't export the text
> from Acrobat in any meaningful way, either. (And I do have the latest
> copies of Win 95, Acrobat, and printer drivers for my Epson Stylus Color
> 600.)
As a person who works in the printer industry (I write embedded software for
printer controllers, and work closely with the Printer Driver people) I
would guess your not having an Acrobat problem, so much as one of the
following:
1) Even though you have the latest driver for your printer, your problem is
most likely a printer driver problem rather than an Acrobat problem.
Granted though, any Adobe software product (and Quark Express and a few
others, for that matter) tend to cause more problems with printer drivers
than anything else.
2) For that matter, you may need more RAM in your printer to print complex
pages ... though this is usually more of a PCL or Postscript sort of
problem. I'm not sure what your Epson Print driver is emitting. If it's
GDI, then RAM on the printer should not be a problem. On the other hand, if
the printer rips the page image, this could easily be the real problem.
At work, I haven't had problems printing with Acrobat for several years now
... the last time I did, it was a problem with our printer drivers, which
was fixed. At home (Brother HL730 laser printer with 2MB of RAM), Acrobat
has always worked fine with one exception. When I printed the "Free Fuzion
Game", the black boxes with page numbers on the second page printed out only
as black boxes. Definitely a printer driver problem!!
Over all, I have had more problems (work and home) printing out HTML!! A
lot of times, I end up with a partial line of text on the bottom of one
page, with the rest being on the top of the next page. I'm not sure if this
is a printer driver problem or not (or maybe because I'm sometimes printing
from a browser) ... but I do know that HTML can give printer drivers fits
too ... so that's not a good solution.
Anyway, call technical help for your printer, and tell them your having
trouble printing with Acrobat. They may already be aware of it, and have a
solution for you!!
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: "Hero Games" <HeroGames@aol.com&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus printed versions
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:20:38 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>I noticed that you can buy printed, 3-hole punched versions of the Hero
>>Plus stuff, but these are really expensive. Are the prices this high
>>because they are bigger than your average sourcebook, or because of color
>>art, or some other reason?
>
> These prices represent the added cost of taking the book to a
> local copy store
> and getting a copy made (double-sided, 3-hole drilled). We don't make any
> additional profit on those copies; we offer them as an added
> service to our
> customers.
On thing that annoyed me about "The Ultimate Super Mage" was that there
really wasn't enough room on the inside margin (duplexed) for 3-hole drilled
paper. I suppose it works okay if you want to put it into a three ring
notebook, but if you want to put it into a folder/cover or use a simple
binding system like you can get at Office Max, the text is just too close to
the edge of the page!!!
On the other hand, the outside margins are _huge_. I suppose they needed to
be to fit that large scroll around the page number. It would have been much
nicer if the scroll had been smaller, and the whole image moved maybe a
quarter of an inch toward the outside margin.
It would have also been nicer if the graphic on the front page had been a
little higher resolution. It looked fine on the screen, but is pretty
grainy when you print it out. I can live with the grainy graphics through
the rest of the book.
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from psansone@i1.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:31:35 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
To: champ-l@omg.org
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: San Angelo
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I understand that your annoyance is rooted in a desire for the product, so I
>hope you'll understand that no one is more eager than I to see San Angelo see
>print. But I intend to take as much time as needed to make sure the product is
>worthy of the wait. Our watchword is: "People may forget about late, but
>they'll always remember bad." We're already late and I certainly don't want to
>compound the problem by releasing the product when it's not quite ready.
>
> Mark @ GRG
>
> P.S. San Angelo: City of Heroes is currently slated for release in June.
Been a while since I posted here, but I just wanted to say Thanks for the
release date. I've been bothering my local store on a weekly basis about
San Angelo. I'd prefer a late book with quality then monthly books worth
nothing in quality or game value that counterdict each other at every turn.
Keep up the good work. I'll have to say I am one of those people who will
forget late, (actually isn't that standard for gaming :) ) but I won't
forget or forgive a bunch of hype and then shoddy material. Once bitten,
twice shy sort of thing. Well, thanks once again. Keep up the good work,
just keep us posted if the date gets moved in either direction, take it easy
and talk at you later.
Sparx
=====================================================
I intend to live forever - so far, so good
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access4.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access4.digex.net ip 205.197.245.195
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:44:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Reply-To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
> > Combat Skill Levels: Part of the law enforcement profession is regular
> Personally, in many cases I'd be happy to play using the PS: Cop and not
> much else, but only if the GM agreed that the PS covers 95% of what you've
> listed above. I think most GMs would balk at the PS coverage being that
> extensive, in which case I'd have to go with something much like what
> you've described above.
The one thing that bugged me about your response to Mark's listing of
skills (and the responses to my listing of Knight skills) was the constant
use of 'for a beginner, no'. Joe cop (or average knight) does not mean
rookie. This is not D&D, where the generic cop/night/samurai is a
first-level nobody that exists only to take up space. The skill sets that
Mark and I brought up were for a character with some experience,
representing a spread of skills one would expect after sufficent exposure
to the job.
Now, if Mark's 54 point cop package is for a 'fresh out of the Acadamy'
character, I'd balk too. If it's ment to simulate the average 5-10 year
veteran, then I have no problem. Sure, it might be a bit over specific in
skills (the Steve Long syndrome), but I prefer that to PS: Cop 11- and
nothing else.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:23:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:20 AM 4/10/1998 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>At 11:25 AM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Make that 'appropriate' sex...after all, the Incredible Hunk should be
>>>able to use his COM attack vs, say, Northstar of Alpha Flight...
>>
>>Very True! Can cause 'problems' for the attacker! ^_^;
>
>what a curious caveat... it obviously doesnt mean children either... nor
>dead people... why include only one segment of the population that is an
>exception?
Actually, I don't think *any* psychologically-based attack would have
much effect on dead people.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:40:53 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:40 AM 4/11/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Btw, I have written a new Perk: Fringe benefit -- Local/State Police
Powers.
>And for those who think I am just out to rack up a tubload of point costs,
>this Perk *includes* the right to carry a concealed weapon off duty (i.e., no
>extra Pts for Weapon Permit or Concealed Weapon Permit). (2 Pts)
>
> And I also did not include a 1 Pt "License to practice Profession," despite
>the fact that officers must be certified by the state and possess a "Peace
>Officers Standards of Training (POST)" certificate to be hired... ;)
This, I think, is a good call. A Police Powers Perk (of any type or
level) should include a license to operate as a police officer.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:48:52 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 09:01 AM 4/11/1998 -0500, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
>> And I also did not include a 1 Pt "License to practice Profession,"
despite
>>the fact that officers must be certified by the state and possess a "Peace
>>Officers Standards of Training (POST)" certificate to be hired... ;)
>
>I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
>one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice.
>Not much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you
are.
Don't assume that. There have been a handful of cases in fiction, and
of course several in real life, where an individual has been perfectly
qualified to practice a profession but not licensed to do so.
Several years ago there was a character on General Hospital (I think
Grant Andrews was his name) who was an orthopedic surgeon, but lost his
license due to a political snafu (it turned out he was also a spy for an
enemy power, but turned against his people to defect to the US, and lost
his medical certification in the shuffle).
Along a similar line, there's a fellow up in Portland who is a highly
qualified medical practitioner (I forget his area of specialization), but
can't get his license because he came to America from Cambodia as one of
the "boat people" of the 1970s and doesn't speak English well enough to
pass the exam.
So it's not too unreasonable to assume that there are a few people
running around with the qualifications and training to be a police officer,
but who don't have the POST certificate.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:58:54 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The REPLY-TO thing
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:49 PM 4/10/1998 -0700, John Desmarais wrote:
>Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
>the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
>this:
>
>1. The "nays" outweighed the "yays" ever so slightly (by one vote -
>total vote count was 27).
Actually I was ready to change my vote to say drop the Reply-To: header.
>2. A more compelling reason though is that I believe that turning it
>off will generate less disharmony that leaving it on.
And you couldn't have waited until Tuesday? ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:58:54 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The REPLY-TO thing
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:49 PM 4/10/1998 -0700, John Desmarais wrote:
>Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
>the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
>this:
>
>1. The "nays" outweighed the "yays" ever so slightly (by one vote -
>total vote count was 27).
Actually I was ready to change my vote to say drop the Reply-To: header.
>2. A more compelling reason though is that I believe that turning it
>off will generate less disharmony that leaving it on.
And you couldn't have waited until Tuesday? ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:04:15 -0700
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: A quick announcement
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
For all interested: the address for my website has changed. (Its actual
location is the same; you just get to it differently.)
The correct address for Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page is below. The
old address will still get you there for the foreseeable future, however --
in fact, if I'm understanding my sysadmin correctly, for as long as it
stays at Around the Klock. So while changes in your bookmark files and
link pages would be good, there's no panic.
Thank you for your time and bandwidth. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:07:12 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>High Society
><< Hrm...maybe. >>
>
> A Knight was expected to know how to behave and understand (and extoll) the
>virtues of chivalry. I think High Society is very approrpiate for true
>Knights. Now knaives... they could get away without having it. ;)
Knights of the court, perhaps. But most knights didn't hang around the
court; they were too busy governing lands and such. And knowledge of
Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight.
>>KS: Dance
><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS. And not all
>nights were courtiers. >>
>
> Do you know how to Waltz? Two-step? Does everyone you know know how? Just
>wondering. I certainly don't. ;)
I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction. My point
being that your average individual can go to a nightclub and not look like a
total doofus on the dance floor without having to buy PS: or KS: Dance. The
same applies to knights and ladies; only those known as 'superior' dancers
should buy PS: Dance.
>>KS: Heraldry
><< That's what you hire a Herald for... >>
>
> Perhaps a herald carries the standard, but wouldn't the knight need to be
>able to recognize the heraldic symbols of others?
That's memory; not heraldry per se. If I was going to be as pedantic as to
reqire knights to have KS: Heraldry, I'd separate KS: Heraldry from KS:
Family Crests. They are not the same thing.
Besides, (in)famous crests should be covered by Reputation, should they not?
And anyone would know the 'major' crests of the land.
>>KS: Poetry
><< 'Any Idiot' skill. Only if you want _quality_ poetry should you have this
>skill. >>
>
> I think that was the intent.
But this, and the Heraldry skill, assumes a high degree of literacy on the
part of knights; this was not necessarily so. Plenty of them were barely
literate or even illiterate - being able to read was a very big deal and not
every knight could afford it (especially after all the other costs involved
in being a knight) or practice it to a degree where they became truly
proficient.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:14:19 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: Red Bow Antiques
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Plus printed versions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Sprague wrote:
> On thing that annoyed me about "The Ultimate Super Mage" was that >there really wasn't enough room on the inside margin (duplexed) for >3-hole drilled paper. I suppose it works okay if you want to put it >into a three ring notebook, but if you want to put it into a >folder/cover or use a simple binding system like you can get at Office >Max, the text is just too close tothe edge of the page!!!
>
I have had this problem as well, but I have solved it now. I
spend an extra $5.00 and buy sheet protectors. Then I bind the sheet
protectors in a notebook. It really doesn't take up more room than the
sheets by themselves, looks good, and protects my paper from spills and
such.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp2.erols.com ip 207.172.3.235
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:52:26 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The REPLY-TO thing
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Ron Cole wrote:
>
> >Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
> >the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
> >this:
IMHO the one who does the work gets to make the rules. This is true
whether that is a GM or a List Administrator.
>
> Bleh... I don't suppose there's an option in there to set this by subscriber?
> Or if there is other list software that we could switch to that does allow it?
I suspect that Mr. Desmarais may have a life not connected with this
list. Frankly, I suggest that we all live with it as decreed.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo13.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo13.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.35
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:59:41 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I'd argue the police sergeant who showed up had the full skill, not just
familiarity, but by the time someone is ready for the sergeant's exam they've
racked up some XPs.>>
Being eligible for the Sgt.'s exam is based almost entirely on years of
service in our department. Just FYI.
Plus, I know some Sgt.s who couldn't persuade a rock to stand still. <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:16:44 -0500
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Joe Cop and Sir Joseph
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>The one thing that bugged me about your response to Mark's listing of
>skills (and the responses to my listing of Knight skills) was the constant
>use of 'for a beginner, no'. Joe cop (or average knight) does not mean
>rookie. This is not D&D, where the generic cop/night/samurai is a
>first-level nobody that exists only to take up space. The skill sets that
>Mark and I brought up were for a character with some experience,
>representing a spread of skills one would expect after sufficent exposure
>to the job.
>
>Now, if Mark's 54 point cop package is for a 'fresh out of the Acadamy'
>character, I'd balk too. If it's ment to simulate the average 5-10 year
>veteran, then I have no problem. Sure, it might be a bit over specific in
>skills (the Steve Long syndrome), but I prefer that to PS: Cop 11- and
>nothing else.
I didn't reply to your list of Knight skills. I thought it was very well
constructed as you had it, though I did wonder if Perk: Knight included
things like the Right of Hospitality or if it was just meant to be a
version of the Rank perk. I might also have made one of two of the listed
Skills into Familiarities, but the only real quibble I had was with
Paramedic, and someone else raised that objection, so I didn't need to.
It was my understanding that the package presented was meant to be
representative of any given policeman. I did understand that it wasn't
being suggested that the detailed presentation *must* be used in all cases,
but I had thought what we were being given here was a choice between PS:
Cop 11- (to represent all policemen within the campaign) or, if the GM
prefered the maore detailed and realistic approach, something like the
54-point package given could be used as the base template for all policemen
in the campaign. If that's true, it needs to apply to rookies as well as
5-10 year vets, and it's on that basis that I made my comments.
If in fact I misunderstood the intent, and the skill package Mark described
was only meant to refer to veterans with several years on-the-job
experience, then you are quite right there was no need for me to say
anything at all. Fortunately for most of us, misinterpretation of things
like that won't get a person shot.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:19:53 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I won't strongly contest the presence of this Skill, but since you said
"over time, it gradually adds", doesn't that imply that the baseline cop will
*not* have CSLs, placing this into in the category of things that should be
added on later? >>
No. That comment was in response to the "Some Gms may argue." In my opinion
and experience, baseline cops start with extra Skill Levels because of their
initial training. You don't give a new cop a gun without training them how to
use it and becoming proficient. There's a liability issue. Cops *have* to be
more proficient than the "average citizen" withal of their equipment, aqnd
this goes beyond the basic Weapon Familiarity.
<< I don't think I'd give Officer Everyman a Speed Estimation ability; >>
I didn't suggest that they do get this ability. I merely listed it as one of
many possible KSs. Not all of the skills I listed would necessarily apply to
baseline cops. Apologies for not making that clear. However, msot of those
skills are worthy of a Familiarity for new cops.
<< if I did, I'd base it on a Talent rather than a KS. >>
You could do it either way, using a Talent requiring a PER roll. But I think
of it as more of a skill which can be increased with experience. Some officers
I know can go into court and simply provide a speed estimation, which the
court accepts the same as it would a number from a radar gun! No joke. From so
many appearances in court and accurate estimations, the court felt that the
officer's experience was sufficient for admission.
<< However it's modeled, it sounds more like something you get from
experience, though. >>
It was another of those "not necessarily every cop has it" skills.
<< Perhaps the GM should award bonus XPTS over the course of the campaign in
the form of abilities like this that "every good cop" will automatically learn
in the course of performing his normal duties. >>
A good idea.
<< I agree the rookie should start with a FAM, but any cop worth his salt
will build this into a Skill over time. >>
Absolutely. Unfotunately, there are some who don't get that opportuity, as
they work in the jail, or the court system, or in some other position other
than patrol (this is more common in sheriff's depts than city police depts
AFAIK).
<< The rules are a little vague on this, but I generally assume a WF covers
the knowledge of routine cleaning and maintenance. >>
Under Weaponsmith is states "maintain...," which is why I listed it as a
Familiarity, with the caveat that it applies only to the weapons they have WF
for.
<< I expect a character with WF: small arms to know how to clean the weapon
and clear a jam. >>
In which case you wouldn't need your players to buy it.
> What about Perks? Does not a typical patrol cop have a few neighborhood or
>departmental contacts? (0 Pts min)
<< Acquired during his time on the beat, yes. Not on his first day out of the
academy. >>
Which is why it is listed with a suggested 0 Pt minimum. :/
<< I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice. Not
much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you are. >>
One can have the Professional Skill lawyer (law school grad?) and yet not
possess the license (didn't pass the bar?).
<< Personally, in many cases I'd be happy to play using the PS: Cop and not
much else, but only if the GM agreed that the PS covers 95% of what you've
listed above.>>
Keep in mind that Law & Order will have quite a bit more than just police
character Packages and templates. It will also have a good amount of
equipment, weapons, vehicles, and tons of source material about what cops do,
how they do it, and in some cases why they do it. Great campaign material for
anyone, in any modern genre, wanting more info about cops, much like UMA
provided info about martial artists, or TUSM did about mages.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from goldrushg@aol.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:22:02 EDT
To: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: San Angelo
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Keep up the good work, just keep us posted if the date gets moved in either
direction... >>
We certainly will.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:39:58 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< And knowledge of Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight. >>
Is that so?
>>KS: Dance
><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS
<< I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction. >>
Faking a Waltz is not the same as having a good knowledge and adequate
proficiency with the Waltz. Just because I can fake something doesn't mean I
have the skill. :/
<< My point being that your average individual can go to a nightclub and not
look like a total doofus on the dance floor without having to buy PS: or KS:
Dance. >>
Improvising a dance is not the same as knowing how to dance in a certain
formal style, IMO. Just because I can fake the Electric Slide doesn't mean I
actually know how to do it. In fact, to those who *do* know how to do it, I
*would* look like a doofus.
> Perhaps a herald carries the standard, but wouldn't the knight need to be
>able to recognize the heraldic symbols of others?
<< That's memory; not heraldry per se. >>
You have got to be joking? The same could be said of *any* Knowledge Skill,
then. "Oh, I don't need that skill, I just 'remember' it." ;) Sorry, I
disagree with this logic completely.
<< Besides, (in)famous crests should be covered by Reputation, should they
not?
And anyone would know the 'major' crests of the land. >>
Now you're defining things a bit. The original comment was more broad,
dealing with crests in general.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access4.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access4.digex.net ip 205.197.245.195
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << And knowledge of Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight. >>
>
> Is that so?
I agree with Mark. PS: Knight does not grant extenmsive knowledge of the
tenants and practices of Chivalry. Heck, "The Book of the Order of
Chivalry" was written about the subject to illuminate what was considered
proper behaviour in knights.
> >>KS: Dance
> ><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS
>
> << I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction. >>
>
> Faking a Waltz is not the same as having a good knowledge and adequate
> proficiency with the Waltz. Just because I can fake something doesn't mean I
> have the skill. :/
A proper gentleman might be expected to know several styles of dance, and
to be considered a man of quality, to know them well.
> > Perhaps a herald carries the standard, but wouldn't the knight need to be
> >able to recognize the heraldic symbols of others?
>
> << That's memory; not heraldry per se. >>
>
> You have got to be joking? The same could be said of *any* Knowledge Skill,
> then. "Oh, I don't need that skill, I just 'remember' it." ;) Sorry, I
> disagree with this logic completely.
I agree with Mark. KS: Heraldy will allow the knight to describe arms to
others, cant his own arms, understand the canting of other's arms, as well
as know who the heck is bearing what on the battlefield.
> << Besides, (in)famous crests should be covered by Reputation, should they
> not?
> And anyone would know the 'major' crests of the land. >>
>
> Now you're defining things a bit. The original comment was more broad,
> dealing with crests in general.
Hey, I never said a word about crests, I was talking about heraldic arms,
like what you see on a shield. Worrying about creasts, mottos and
supporters is a herald's job.
Hmm... I guess I'll have to post a list of knightly skills like Mark did
for cops.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:07:58 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
>>one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice.
>>Not much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you
>are.
>
> Several years ago there was a character on General Hospital (I think
>Grant Andrews was his name) who was an orthopedic surgeon, but lost his
>license due to a political snafu (it turned out he was also a spy for an
>enemy power, but turned against his people to defect to the US, and lost
>his medical certification in the shuffle).
While it would never have occured to me to hold up General Hospital as an
example of how to do things in order to add realism to a game, your point
(and Mark's, when he mentioned the law school grad who didn't pass the bar
exam) is well taken. The PS Skill in its original description indicated
that a person with a PS was "pretty good, enough to get a job in the
field". If the job requires a certification you don't have, presumably you
can't get the job; ergo, if you *can* get a job on the basis of the PS
alone, it must include any license or certification required to do so.
Unfortunately for me, even if that interpretation might have been valid
once, it isn't any longer. I went back and checked, and Champions II
describes the PS as "enough to get a job", but the 4th Ed rules do not.
This voids the whole basis for my position and I will have to make the
adjustment.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
><< And knowledge of Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight. >>
>
> Is that so?
Of course! That's part of what differentiates it from PS: Mercinary Soldier.
Chivalry was (supposed to be) part of the professional etiquette of the
knight, neh?
>>>KS: Dance
>><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS
>
><< I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction. >>
>
> Faking a Waltz is not the same as having a good knowledge and adequate
>proficiency with the Waltz. Just because I can fake something doesn't mean I
>have the skill. :/
Exactly. If a knight wants to 'impress' the ladies with how well he dances,
it's time for him to buy PS: Dancing (KS: Dancing would be theoretical and
historical knowledge...IOW, Dance Masters only).
I can't help but wonder if the 'Everyman' skills in a campaign shouldn't
depend on the background of the individual - namely, the social class they
come from, as bought as a Perk/Disad. Nobles (Perk:Nobility) and Peasants
(Phys.Lim.:Serf) should in theory have broadly different 'Everyman' skills,
should they not?
>
><< My point being that your average individual can go to a nightclub and not
>look like a total doofus on the dance floor without having to buy PS: or KS:
>Dance. >>
>
> Improvising a dance is not the same as knowing how to dance in a certain
>formal style, IMO. Just because I can fake the Electric Slide doesn't mean I
>actually know how to do it. In fact, to those who *do* know how to do it, I
>*would* look like a doofus.
But those that _do_ know are either club dwellers (who do little else but
work at day and club at night) or trained dancers. And I wasn't talking
about improvising per se, but simply getting by with a few basic dance steps.
The problem is that when you get to 'picky' about who has what skills,
almost _any_ human being needs 100+ points to be properly represented. Even
the stuff from your student work days would provide a half dozen PS's, if
only at the FAM level.
>> Perhaps a herald carries the standard, but wouldn't the knight need to be
>>able to recognize the heraldic symbols of others?
>
><< That's memory; not heraldry per se. >>
>
> You have got to be joking? The same could be said of *any* Knowledge Skill,
>then. "Oh, I don't need that skill, I just 'remember' it." ;) Sorry, I
>disagree with this logic completely.
I misspoke myself; it's a factor of Area Knowledge. A knight would know the
crests of the local nobles best (local AK), and the important crests of the
high lords of the nation (national AK, or just a penalty on the local AK).
Most knights would be completely stumped on foreign crests unless they were
of (in)famous lords. Somebody with Heraldry could probably tell you the
geneology of a person just from his crest, especially in the later years
when crests started to get messy, what with quartering, and added helms and
scrollwork and mottoes and bestiaries.
After all, you can recognize the flags of your state, city and township,
right? Same thing; area knowledge. Knights applying for a 'new' coat of arms
consulted with Heralds to insure that they did not conflict with other
crests (a serious no-no); there's no way the 'average' knight would have the
knowledge to perform this kind of research - and that's primarily what KS:
Heraldry is, IMHO.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:03:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >>KS: Dance
> ><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS. And not all
> >nights were courtiers. >>
> >
> > Do you know how to Waltz? Two-step? Does everyone you know know how? Just
> >wondering. I certainly don't. ;)
>
> I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction. My point
> being that your average individual can go to a nightclub and not look like a
> total doofus on the dance floor without having to buy PS: or KS: Dance. The
> same applies to knights and ladies; only those known as 'superior' dancers
> should buy PS: Dance.
Well, actually, dancing was one of the bigger social activities of the
time. /Everybody/ danced, peasant and noble, because that's what people
did when they got together. It gave an excuse for meeting, flirting, etc.
Note that the dances likely to be known are not waltzes and such - they're
much later historically. You're going to have country dances and the
like. Italy and Spain had more 'ballroom' types of dancing - very formal,
full of reverances (bows/curtseys) to your partners, etc.
Anyway, from all the information I've heard, knights should definitely be
able to dance - but so should everyone else in a medieval society. If I
were running a middle ages game, I'd definitely make it an Everyman skill.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 03:48 PM