Week Ending April 18, 1998
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out2.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out2.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.229
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 98 00:17:35
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: The REPLY-TO thing
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:52:26 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>Ron Cole wrote:
>>
>> >Well, sometime this weekend (maybe even today) you can expect to see
>> >the REPLY-TO field cease to be populated. There are two reasons for
>> >this:
>
>IMHO the one who does the work gets to make the rules. This is true
>whether that is a GM or a List Administrator.
True I suppose, but there's no reason for me to be an ogre about it.
>> Bleh... I don't suppose there's an option in there to set this by subscriber?
>> Or if there is other list software that we could switch to that does allow it?
>
>I suspect that Mr. Desmarais may have a life not connected with this
>list.
An ugly rumor.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo web2.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @web2.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.68
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:23:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Knights
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
---Sakura wrote:
>
> Well, actually, dancing was one of the bigger social activities of the
> time. /Everybody/ danced, peasant and noble, because that's what people
> did when they got together. It gave an excuse for meeting, flirting, etc.
[snip]
> Anyway, from all the information I've heard, knights should definitely be
> able to dance - but so should everyone else in a medieval society. If I
> were running a middle ages game, I'd definitely make it an Everyman skill.
>
> J
Finally, someone who understands... different culture, different Everyman
skills! Any person brought up in a culture where dancing was as common as
watching TV is for us would have as little trouble on the dance floor as the
average 8-year old has setting the VCR clock!
The same can be said for many knightly skills. Just because WE consider
such things to be esoteric knowledge doesn't mean THEY had any trouble with it.
And, vice versa for such things as literacy... that was more a priestly
thing. In fact, it was not uncommon for a landed knight, or even higher
nobility, to place all the responsibility for reading and writing on his local
clergy (mainly because he was totally illiterate himself).
One thing you may want to consider, though... since they could never be
sure if their prospective message recipients could read, most messages were
conveyed by word of mouth. Thus, there was a cultural need for strong,
perhaps even EIDETIC, memory.
For more detail on medieval life, I strongly recommend Gordon R.
Dickson's series of excellent fantasy novels The Dragon And The (fill in the
blank). Even though they are fantasy, the depiction of medieval culture is
amazingly accurate.
That's all from me... for now. Take care!
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: "Buying" off -0 limitations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:38:28 +0200
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I was wondering how GMs handle characters who
want to remove -0 limitations from their powers.
Do you just roleplay the character working to
remove the limitation until it is gone; require them
to spend points to remove the limitation, even tho'
it doesn't save points to begin with; etc?
-Roger
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: Miss Direction
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:06:47 +0200
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Got some questions, but let me expain the problem first.
Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
physical object from its original path to move in another
direction.
Ex: Rhino is charging Miss D at a velocity of 12", she
does her thing and Rhino suddenly finds himself heading
back the way he came; into the wall to his right; into his
buddy Mr. OhShitI'mGonnaBeCreamedByMyOwnPartner;
straight up into the air; etc.
I am thinking of constructing this power as:
XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
So,
1) What, if anything, are the two limitations worth?
Note: I listed them separately so that the lims would have to
be bought off independently.
2) Is the minimum amount of XDM [20 pts; one dimension]
enough to construct this power? Or should it be [30 pts;
one related group of dimensions] to simulate the shunting to
*any* direction?
3) If she buys the x2 mass option on XDM, does she have
to purchase it for UAO as well?
4) Using the example above: If Rhino (velocity 12") is
suddenly going straight up into the air (and he has no flight)
how far up will his momentum carry him?
I ask because how far up he travels will determine how far he
will fall back to the ground and how much damage that he will
take from this.
5) What would be a "reasonably common set of defenses"
vs this attack?
Thanks,
-Roger
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:37:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: "Buying" off -0 limitations
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Rog wrote:
> I was wondering how GMs handle characters who
> want to remove -0 limitations from their powers.
That depends heavily on the power and the limitation. If the limitation
is due to their SFX (sonic powers not working in a vacuum) then I probably
wouldn't let them buy it off at all.
If it were due to a fine point of control or some such that the character
could conceivably change - roleplay, definitely. The player was nice
enough to provide you with this 'hook', so use it. People taking a 0-pt
limitation willingly certainly aren't doing it because they're
pointmongers (the pointmongers would be busy trying to convince you it's
worth -1/4).
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:12:55 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
> >one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice.
> >Not much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you
> are.
>
> Don't assume that. There have been a handful of cases in fiction, and
> of course several in real life, where an individual has been perfectly
> qualified to practice a profession but not licensed to do so.
> So it's not too unreasonable to assume that there are a few people
> running around with the qualifications and training to be a police officer,
> but who don't have the POST certificate.
Such as your typical SP/MP military veteran. These guys are cops for
the military. When they get out, some become police officers, but not
all. Yet they all have all the police knowledge; just for a somewhat
diferent legal system.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:24:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Miss Direction
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>Got some questions, but let me expain the problem first.
>
>Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
>physical object from its original path to move in another
>direction.
>I am thinking of constructing this power as:
>XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
>only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
>only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
Hrm. I'd personally use Telekinesis, Fully Invisible, Only to Change the
Path of A Moving Object (-1). Then just use a STR vs. STR roll to 'control'
the poor sap you're moving. You win the STR roll, he has to go your way!
That, or you just ignore a STR vs STR contest and use the TK to 'throw' the
target with the TK; it's just the SFX look as if you're controlling his
direction. Probably best used as a held phase...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:50:14 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
John and Ron Prins wrote:
>
> >>High Society
> ><< Hrm...maybe. >>
> >
> > A Knight was expected to know how to behave and understand (and extoll) the
> >virtues of chivalry. I think High Society is very approrpiate for true
> >Knights. Now knaives... they could get away without having it. ;)
>
> Knights of the court, perhaps. But most knights didn't hang around the
> court; they were too busy governing lands and such. And knowledge of
> Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight.
Knowledge of the conventions of Chivalric conduct would be common to all
knights, but they would vary greatly in their ability to put it into
practice. From the days of Richard III onward, there was a strong
distinction, as you point out, between carpet and battlefield knights.
As such, I would want the ability to distinguish the abilities, and High
Society would be a recommended purchase for Knights, but not an Everyman
nor a part of the package.
>
> >>KS: Dance
> ><< Any idiot should be able to dance without requiring a KS. And not all
> >nights were courtiers. >>
KS: Dance should be knowledge of the history of dance, regional
variations, etc.
Dancing (DEX) is a physical skill, requiring much practice over time.
The earliest dances that I have experience with dances are the Minuet
(1650) and the Waltz (1770). The earliest courtly dances were modified
versions of traditional dating from the 15th century. If you want an
historical medieval setting, then the knights and ladies dance the same
traditional dances as the peasants and this is an everyman skill. If you
want courtly dances, then this is a separate skill, and rustic nobles
from the provinces might lack it.
PS: Dancer should IMHO be restricted to professional teachers and
performers.
> >
> > Do you know how to Waltz? Two-step? Does everyone you know know how? Just
> >wondering. I certainly don't. ;)
>
> I'll bet I could fake a waltz with three minutes of instruction.
I wouldn't put money on that if I were you! I have assisted with
beginning ballroom classes, and it takes at least a full hour to get to
the "fake it" level, unless the person is already a professional-level
dancer, and longer than five minutes even if he or she is a professional.
And...you can't really fake it anyway. You either know what you are
doing and do it right, or you stick out like a sore thumb to everyone in
the place.
> My point
> being that your average individual can go to a nightclub and not look like a
> total doofus on the dance floor without having to buy PS: or KS: Dance.
Well, your typical club dancer *does* look like a total doofus. The
reason that this is not remarked on is that all his friends also look
like total doofuses.
I had hundreds of hours of training in ballroom dance, and did well in
competitions, but I do not flatter myself that I could get out on a
hip-hop floor and look like I know what I am doing without spending a
*lot* more than three minutes. I can, however, tell the difference
between competent and incompetent dancers, even in an unfamiliar field.
>
> >>KS: Poetry
> ><< 'Any Idiot' skill. Only if you want _quality_ poetry should you have this
> >skill. >>
> >
> > I think that was the intent.
>
> But this, and the Heraldry skill, assumes a high degree of literacy on the
> part of knights; this was not necessarily so. Plenty of them were barely
> literate or even illiterate - being able to read was a very big deal and not
> every knight could afford it (especially after all the other costs involved
> in being a knight) or practice it to a degree where they became truly
> proficient.
What makes you think that Heraldry was a skill for the literate. The
escutcheons were developed precisely as identifiers that could be created
and used by the non-literate. It doesn't require reading to learn the
rules of heraldry, or the names of the elements, etc.
What makes you think that poetry has anything to do with literacy? The
composer of Beowulf as we have it was almost certainly not literate. It
was written down by a monk who was interested in preserving it for some
reason -- possibly a nationalistic Saxon after the conquest.
As for being an "Any Idiot" skill, a knight was expected to extemporize
poetry that would, if not impress others, at least not embarrass himself.
This is not a universal skill, and it requires considerable training and
practice. Are you forgetting about Caedmon? He was a Saxon knight who
could not extemporize poetry at the mead-table, and who was humiliated
for it. According to his own account, he prayed for deliverance, and
produced the beautiful old-english hymn known ever after as Caedmon's
hymn.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:29:56 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Dale Ward wrote:
>
> ---Sakura wrote:
> >
> > Well, actually, dancing was one of the bigger social activities of the
> > time. /Everybody/ danced, peasant and noble, because that's what people
> > did when they got together. It gave an excuse for meeting, flirting, etc.
And, dances such as the Carol and the May Day dances had earlier
ritual/magical/religious significance. IIRC, the Morris dances were
probably derived from such a source as well.
> > were running a middle ages game, I'd definitely make it an Everyman skill.
> >
> > J
>
> Finally, someone who understands... different culture, different Everyman
> skills! Any person brought up in a culture where dancing was as common as
> watching TV is for us would have as little trouble on the dance floor as the
> average 8-year old has setting the VCR clock!
This is why it is vital whether the GM wants a society in which courtly
dances are distinct from the traditional dances of the countryside.
> The same can be said for many knightly skills. Just because WE consider
> such things to be esoteric knowledge doesn't mean THEY had any trouble with it.
Are all PCs going to be knights? If so, then I agree they should be
Everyman skills. If not, then those skills should be included with the
Package Deal: Knight.
> For more detail on medieval life, I strongly recommend Gordon R.
> Dickson's series of excellent fantasy novels The Dragon And The (fill in the
> blank). Even though they are fantasy, the depiction of medieval culture is
> amazingly accurate.
Well, de gustibus non est disputandem, but you seem to have a higher
opinion of GRD than do I. Then again, I came to him via the Dorsai
books, which may have poisoned the well.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp1.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp1.erols.com ip 207.172.3.234
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:32:06 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Rook wrote:
>
> > >I generally assume that to be included under the PS if the profession is
> > >one that requires licensing, bonding or other certification to practice.
> > >Not much point in being qualified for the job if you can't prove that you
> > are.
> >
> > Don't assume that. There have been a handful of cases in fiction, and
> > of course several in real life, where an individual has been perfectly
> > qualified to practice a profession but not licensed to do so.
And, the license to practice may be suspended or revoked, which does not
reduce the Professional Skill any -- although it might deteriorate over
time. In a supers campaign where mutants were illegal, a mutant
physician might lack the requisite license.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Miss Direction
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:13:25 +0200
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id RAA20111
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
----------
From: Robert A. West [SMTP:robtwest@erols.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 11:42 PM
Rog wrote:
> Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
> physical object from its original path to move in another
> direction.
Many SFX questions: Why can't she rotate an object that is stationary with respect to the local reference frame? Can she rotate an object's motion with respect to some other reference frame? Can she only rotate motion relative to her own reference frame?
She can rotate objects in motion> relative to the Earth. She may
learn to affect stationary objects in the future, but hey she's only
16, give her a chance, she's still testing her abilities and she
can currently only affect with objects that already have a momentum
> I am thinking of constructing this power as:
> XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
> only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
> only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
Why XDM? The target is not leaving normal space-time. This is an
extremely powerful effect, that can deal out significant amounts of
damage. I would point it as
40 12" Teleport UAO(+1) Ranged(+1/2) Rotate only(-1/2)
Defense = having teleport or moving > the teleport.
The special effect is that the object is rotated and now has its velocity in the new direction. It requires more END to rotate a faster moving object, which strikes me as reasonable, and buying enough of this power to really hurt someone will be comparable to buying the requisite amount of Energy Blast.
Why 12" of Teleport> ? She is not moving the target any distance,
only changing its bearing. And how do you see this costing more
END the faster an object is moving? [That's not a bad idea but
I don't see how this reflects that, unless you mean that different
levels of Teleport are used for different speeds]
<snip>
Assume that Rhino is running at 12", and he has a SPD of 4. He is travelling 48"/turn = 4"/segment. This means that he comes to a stop in less than a segment. According to the BBB, he will travel 4" upwards and take 4D6 damage on falling. According to my table, he will travel 2" upwards and take 2D6 damage on falling. My guess is that neither will bother Rhino one whit, except that he probably lacks Breakfall.
It may not bother Rhino, but what about Mr Speed, a physically weak
character who can move up to 20"/6 SPD (only along the ground).
Weeeee......way up! Long way down! Can you say Scrunch!! ?
<evil HM grin>
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Thanks, for the comments,
-Roger
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Miss Direction
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:24:51 +0200
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
----------
From: John and Ron Prins [SMTP:jprins@interhop.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 6:24 PM
>Got some questions, but let me expain the problem first.
>
>Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
>physical object from its original path to move in another
>direction.
>I am thinking of constructing this power as:
>XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
>only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
>only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
Hrm. I'd personally use Telekinesis, Fully Invisible, Only to Change the
Path of A Moving Object (-1). Then just use a STR vs. STR roll to 'control'
the poor sap you're moving. You win the STR roll, he has to go your way!
That, or you just ignore a STR vs STR contest and use the TK to 'throw' the
target with the TK; it's just the SFX look as if you're controlling his
direction. Probably best used as a held phase...
I don't see this ability as a STR vs STR contest. She should be
able to affect a kid on a bike as easily as Mr Muscular with his
80 STR, as long as the target is with in the mass range she can
handle (probably only man-sized or maybe 2xman-sized, to start)
Although, doing without STR vs STR contest might work. would
Need to buy TK STR at about 25-30 so that the casual STR
(12-15) would be enough to affect a man(or 2) massed object.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Thanks for the comments,
Roger
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp1.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp1.erols.com ip 207.172.3.234
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:41:42 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Miss Direction
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Rog wrote:
>
> Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
> physical object from its original path to move in another
> direction.
Many SFX questions: Why can't she rotate an object that is stationary
with respect to the local reference frame? Can she rotate an object's
motion with respect to some other reference frame? Can she only rotate
motion relative to her own reference frame?
>
> I am thinking of constructing this power as:
> XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
> only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
> only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
Why XDM? The target is not leaving normal space-time. This is an
extremely powerful effect, that can deal out significant amounts of
damage. I would point it as
40 12" Teleport UAO(+1) Ranged(+1/2) Rotate only(-1/2)
Defense = having teleport or moving > the teleport.
The special effect is that the object is rotated and now has its velocity
in the new direction. It requires more END to rotate a faster moving
object, which strikes me as reasonable, and buying enough of this power
to really hurt someone will be comparable to buying the requisite amount
of Energy Blast.
>
> So,
>
> 1) What, if anything, are the two limitations worth?
> Note: I listed them separately so that the lims would have to
> be bought off independently.
Nothing.
Something that is defined by SFX as non-physical is usually bought
desolid, so you are taking a limitation for not affecting desolid. If you
mean that you cannot affect Energy Blasts or RKAs that are going off, I
would not allow any power except Dispel or Suppress to be used that way
in the first place.
Since there is no reason to use this power against non-moving objects,
the restriction is trivial.
>
> 2) Is the minimum amount of XDM [20 pts; one dimension]
> enough to construct this power? Or should it be [30 pts;
> one related group of dimensions] to simulate the shunting to
> *any* direction?
Since this is not the way that "Dimension" is being used for XDM, I would
not use that power. See above.
>
> 3) If she buys the x2 mass option on XDM, does she have
> to purchase it for UAO as well?
I assume that you mean to ask, "If she buys the x2 mass option on XDM,
does she have to pay the +1 UAO for it as well?" The answer is, of
course, yes. Advantages always apply to the entire power. A power and a
power with an advantage are distinct powers. This rule comes from 3rd
ed., but the lack of any discussion about "partially advantaged" powers
convinces me that it was intended to be carried over to 4th ed.
>
> 4) Using the example above: If Rhino (velocity 12") is
> suddenly going straight up into the air (and he has no flight)
> how far up will his momentum carry him?
To determine how far or how long an object moves when thrown upward,
simply convert the velocity to "/segment look in the velocity column
of the falling table backwards. You can use the distance column to find
the distance fallen, but the distances in the BBB are a bit too high.
The physically accurate distances, assuming g=5"/segment are:
Segment Velocity after Correct Distance BBB
1 5" 2.5" 5"
2 10" 10" 15"
3 15" 22.5" 30"
4 20" 40" 50"
5 25" 62.5" 75"
6 30" 90" 105"
The formula for the correct distance is 0.5*g*t^2, where g is the
acceleration due to gravity and t is the time fallen.
Assume that Rhino is running at 12", and he has a SPD of 4. He is
travelling 48"/turn = 4"/segment. This means that he comes to a stop in
less than a segment. According to the BBB, he will travel 4" upwards and
take 4D6 damage on falling. According to my table, he will travel 2"
upwards and take 2D6 damage on falling. My guess is that neither will
bother Rhino one whit, except that he probably lacks Breakfall.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out1.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out1.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.252
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 00:25:21
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>swing lines.
>
>Would one use Swinging?
>Stretching?
>I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
>to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>
>Suggestions?
Is this the Batman style of fire the gun into the air anywhere in the city and magically
catch hold of some structure above you, or a semi-realistic device to help you climb up
the side of a building (or similar object)?
For the semi-realistic device I'd actually suggest Clinging.
For the Bat-thing I'd go with limited Flight ("must have stucture over head")
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:08:25 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: "'Champions Mail List'" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Miss Direction
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Ron Ablitz wrote, responding to my response to Rog:
> > > 3) If she buys the x2 mass option on XDM, does she have
> > > to purchase it for UAO as well?
> >
> > I assume that you mean to ask, "If she buys the x2 mass option on XDM,
> > does she have to pay the +1 UAO for it as well?" The answer is, of
> > course, yes. Advantages always apply to the entire power.
> >
> The question was refering to the effect *2 mass for +1/4 that UAO has in
its desripition.
OIC. Since the mass option on UAO is not relevant for characters, then
so long as the power is only used against sentient beings, the answer is
"no." If the power is later on to be used against vehicles, then the
answer would become, "yes," IMHO, of course.
Rog wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: Robert A. West [SMTP:robtwest@erols.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 11:42 PM
> Rog wrote:
> > Miss Direction has the mystical ability to reorient any moving
> > physical object from its original path to move in another
> > direction.
> Many SFX questions: Why can't she rotate an object that is stationary with respect to the local reference frame? Can she rotate an object's
motion with respec
> She can rotate objects in motion> relative to the Earth. She may
> learn to affect stationary objects in the future, but hey she's only
> 16, give her a chance, she's still testing her abilities and she
> can currently only affect with objects that already have a momentum
>
> > I am thinking of constructing this power as:
> > XDM(change orientation), UAO(+1), Ranged(+1/2),
> > only vs physical objects/beings(-?),
> > only vs moving objects/beings(-?)
> Why XDM? The target is not leaving normal space-time. This is an
> extremely powerful effect, that can deal out significant amounts of
> damage. I would point it as
> 40 12" Teleport UAO(+1) Ranged(+1/2) Rotate only(-1/2)
> Defense = having teleport or moving > the teleport.
>
> The special effect is that the object is rotated and now has its velocity in the new direction. It requires more END to rotate a faster
moving object, which s
> Why 12" of Teleport> ? She is not moving the target any distance,
> only changing its bearing. And how do you see this costing more
> END the faster an object is moving? [That's not a bad idea but
> I don't see how this reflects that, unless you mean that different
> levels of Teleport are used for different speeds]
Exactly. The idea is that the teleport substitutes its own move in the
indicated direction for the original movement, so you need at least
enough teleport to match the movement rate of the victim. If there is
not some limit on this power, it simply becomes a way to deal out huge
amounts of damage on the cheap.
>
> <snip>
> Assume that Rhino is running at 12", and he has a SPD of 4. He is travelling 48"/turn = 4"/segment. This means that he comes to a stop in
less than a segment
> It may not bother Rhino, but what about Mr Speed, a physically weak
> character who can move up to 20"/6 SPD (only along the ground).
> Weeeee......way up! Long way down! Can you say Scrunch!! ?
> <evil HM grin>
Lessee....20"x6/12=10"/segment. This gives 2 segments up, 2 down and
10" vertical (using my chart) for 10D6 damage. Using the BBB table, Mr.
Speed goes up and comes down 15", so we use the LONG FALLS formula, with
1D6 for every 1"/segment: 10D6 -- whatta coinkidink!
BTW, this is why I suggest strongly that there be some underlying
movement power underneath this. If we allow your construct
35 XDM UAO(+1) At Range(+1/2)
we are dealing out damage on the cheap, and forcing Mr. Speed to lose a
couple of phases. If we use my construct,
67 20" Teleport UAO(+1) At Range(+1/2) Not through solid(-1/2)
you are paying a bit more than for a 10D6 energy blast, but getting more
mileage (so to speak) out of it.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:26:18 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions Listserver <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Precog Gadgeteer
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
OK, my turn. I have a gadgeteer who must, by special effect, select his
weapons in advance. He also has a limited precognition that allows him
to coincidentally select exactly the right things for what he will need.
"I get this odd feeling that I should take a proton depolarizer
tonight."
My representation is:
50 50 point VPP, based on Gadgeteering Skill
37 Control 0 Phase(+1) No Skill Roll(+1)
Not reconfigurable (-1 to advantages) Restricted Powers(-1/2)
The SFX is that, during play, any uncommitted points may suddenly become
anything, but a reconfiguration requires a normal gadgeteering roll.
Any comments or better suggestions?
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:12:41 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
GoldRushG wrote:
>
>
> Btw, I have written a new Perk: Fringe benefit -- Local/State Police Powers.
Neww? My copy of the Hero System Rules contains the perk "Local Police
Powers" on page 44, three entries above "Federal/National Police Powers."
>
> Well, that's a total of 54 Pts for just the bare bones basic Skills and
> Perks, and does not include Stats, other specialty Packages or any equipment
> (if you have the character pay for those; some campaigns/genres don't require
> it)
I see that you like the style of character creation that demands a
Photography skill to use a camera! Seriously, to assert that a
reasonable treatment of police is not possible under 200 points is to
assert that all games involving superpowers *must* reduce police to
characatures that have no function other than to call the supers. It
makes the job of running a low-power campaign more difficult, not less.
<putting on my asbestos suit> ;-)
I also see that you have left out some vital real-world police skills:
Acting. This skill is essential when lying on the witness stand.
Bribery. This skill covers soliciting as well as making bribes.
Interrogation. The third degree, using modern techniques.
Inventor. Useful to manufacture evidence.
Sleight of Hand Used to plant evidence during traffic stops.
AK: Donut Shops.
Be sure to include these, and others, in "Dark Humor Champions." ;-)
<checking my Life Support: Flame a second time...>
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:15:22 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
<< New? My copy of the Hero System Rules contains the perk "Local Police
Powers" on page 44, three entries above "Federal/National Police Powers." >>
If you reread my post, you will see that I listed it as Local/State, and
that it is defined to include (Concealed) Weapon Permit. That is essentially a
new description of an existing Perk.
<< I see that you like the style of character creation that demands a
Photography skill to use a camera! >>
The use of sarcasm disguised as humor do nothing to endear yourself to me. I
take the time to post information in order to share our ideas and give a
glimpse to works in progress. I can appreciate your opinions about the way we
are suggesting designing peace officers for Law & Order, but you and several
others seem to be missing the point of it all...
The way we suggested is not the ONLY way to design cops. We are portraying a
simulation of a "realistic" cop in Hero System terms. It is not appropriate
for use in all genres nor even in all campaigns within a single genre. Nor
will it be the only suggested method in the book.
However, for those who have ever wondered "What are *all* the Hero System
skills the are appropriate for a cop?" or "What should my character have if I
want him to be just like a real cop?" we are providing a very detailed
example. If you disagree with the way we've designed it, that's fine. However,
everyone has a different style of gaming with the Hero System, and to
criticize one method of portraying what is a very complex character archetype
(believ it or not) seems a bit shortsighted.
<< Seriously, to assert that a reasonable treatment of police is not possible
under 200 points... >>
I NEVER asserted that a reasonable treatment of police is not possible under
200 points. You have inferred that, and incorrectly so. I will refer again to
my comments above.
<< ...is to assert that all games involving superpowers *must* reduce police
to
characatures that have no function other than to call the supers. >>
That is, for the most part, a very important aspect of the genre. For if law
enforcement (as a whole) were as capable in the comics as it is in real life,
many times there would be no need to call the superheroes. Period. But that
certainly wouldn't be much fun for a superhero PC in such a campaign.
<< It makes the job of running a low-power campaign more difficult, not
less.>>
What does? Our detailed write-up of a cop? How so? No one is forcing you to
use our detailed cop write-up. You still have the free will to use whatever
kind of write-ups you think are appropriate to your game. Please do not
mistake our intention of providing the "ultimate cop" as being the end-all be
all of copdom in the Hero System.
As I said, the full, detailed write-up is not appropriate to all genres. But
I am of the opinion that it is easier to present something meaty and let
people pick off what they don't like than it is to present something emaciated
and leave people hungry for more.
<< I also see that you have left out some vital real-world police skills: >>
<< Acting. This skill is essential when lying on the witness stand. >>
<< Bribery. This skill covers soliciting as well as making bribes. >>
<< Interrogation. The third degree, using modern techniques. >>
<< Inventor. Useful to manufacture evidence. >>
<< Sleight of Hand Used to plant evidence during traffic stops. >>
<< AK: Donut Shops. >>
We will, in fact, be addressing some of these items in our section on
corruption.
Once again, I put forth a plea to all readers... don't make the mistake of
assuming that just because I have posted one page of info from a work in
progress that you understand the totality of the project. Many of your
concerns have already been addressed in the book, I assure you.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
swing lines.
Would one use Swinging?
Stretching?
I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
to create a climbing line with that exact power.
Suggestions?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:58:30 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: GM's R US
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
> >For the semi-realistic device I'd actually suggest Clinging.
> >For the Bat-thing I'd go with limited Flight ("must have stucture over head")
>
>
I agree with these two things. If all the gun does is allows you to climb better I
would think of making it a simple plus to the climbing skill. This it the most realistic way
and how I would do it in a Heroic level campaign. However, if I was doing it for Super
Heroes and Batman I would definantly go with Flight or even a multipower for all the
different possible effects the player could use with the gun.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo radius1.teleport.com from cptspith@teleport.com server @radius1.teleport.com ip 192.108.254.35
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:39:06 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> swing lines.
>
> Would one use Swinging?
> Stretching?
> I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
> to create a climbing line with that exact power.
I have always done this as stretching, with a small limitation. In
fact, a line gun is much more limiting than full stretching, since
basically, it only acts to grab things at a distance (traversing the
intervening distance is a seperate matter; either a linked movement
power if the linegun 'auto-retracts', or any existing movement used
along a path not available without the linegun), and probably can't do
damage, or perhaps not equivalent damage. The advantages are that
attacking the line doesn't damage the character and the linegun
character couldn't be grabbed while 'grabbing' the target.
Anyhow, there are - of course - varying levels of this device, but
all of them should be some form of stretching, limited to whatever
degree the sfx dictate. The primary limitation/advantage to take into
account is that a targte 'grabbed' with a linegun can only be pulled
toward the attacker/no actual part of the attacker is grabbable when
linegun 'stretching' is used. For convenience's sake, I generally
consider these two things to cancel out, and concentrate on other
limitations and sfx of the device.
--
"SPOOOOOOOONN!!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo relia.net from mhoram@relia.net server @saturn.relia.net ip 207.173.156.8
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:53:35 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
Robert A. West wrote:
> I also see that you have left out some vital real-world police skills:
> AK: Donut Shops.
>
> Be sure to include these, and others, in "Dark Humor Champions." ;-)
>
> <checking my Life Support: Flame a second time...>
Just a comment. I'v been a 7-11 employee- Night Shift for over 4 years.
The police around here just don't buy donuts...and anytime one does the
rest of the night shift gives them a really bad time.
And no, I am not of arabic descent.
Aren't stereotypes wonderful. 8)
--
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and
goes through their pockets. -- Eddy Peters
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from pat10355@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: Pat10355 <Pat10355@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 02:06:47 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
<<How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
swing lines.>>
Try Superleap, with the limitation of only going straight up. As per Steve
Long somewhere in Dark Champions. That's what I used for one of my archer PC's
gadget arrows.
Patrick Sweeney
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp1.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp1.erols.com ip 207.172.3.234
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:13:14 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
GoldRushG wrote:
>
> << New? My copy of the Hero System Rules contains the perk "Local Police
> Powers" on page 44, three entries above "Federal/National Police Powers." >>
>
> If you reread my post, you will see that I listed it as Local/State, and
> that it is defined to include (Concealed) Weapon Permit. That is essentially a
> new description of an existing Perk.
I *did* read your post carefully, and still don't understand what has
changed. Maybe I have been running the perks differently from everyone
else all this time. Nevertheless, clarity is good: a detailed discussion
of police powers is appropriate to the book under discussion.
>
> << I see that you like the style of character creation that demands a
> Photography skill to use a camera! >>
>
> The use of sarcasm disguised as humor do nothing to endear yourself to me. I
I did not mean to give offense, but was trying to make a point. One is
supposed to be able to build a skilled normal (which should IMHO include
most local police) on 50 points or so and a competent normal (a SWAT team
member, FBI agent, or an officer who is a cut above the rest) on 100 pts.
Now, out comes a statement from you that this cannot be done. I quote
you *exactly*:
> Oh ye of little experience as a cop... ;) I'm telling you, there is no way
> to build a realistically portrayed street cop in the Hero System with so few
> points, unless you are willing to simply group a bunch of unrelated skills
> under "PS: Cop."
This means that Hero is now introducing a new type of campaign: one in
which normals are built on Heroic or Superheroic points. If cops are
going to be 200 pts, so are doctors, scientists, etc. Such character
designs are going to be inappropriate to a supers campaign, unless it is
very high powered. This would be fine if there were good guidance on
building realistic cops for less, but you have just disclaimed that.
> Nor will it be the only suggested method in the book.
If there are good suggestions for building realistic cops on 50 points or
so, that is a Good Thing(tm). For one thing, it would be a nice
guide on how to build the non-super side of a superhero. Your statement
that I cited above seemed to deride the possibility.
>
> << Seriously, to assert that a reasonable treatment of police is not possible
> under 200 points... >>
>
> I NEVER asserted that a reasonable treatment of police is not possible under
> 200 points. You have inferred that, and incorrectly so. I will refer again to
> my comments above.
Your statement that I quote above says, to me, exactly and precisely what
you deny it says. Since it requires effort to compress a reasonable
treatment of a skills-based character into 25 or 50 points, help there
would be of far more interest to me.
And, as you may have guessed, I prefer that my Normals be competent and
interesting. That's why I bought Normals Unbound in the first place.
> But that
> certainly wouldn't be much fun for a superhero PC in such a campaign.
I disagree that real-world police could handle mentalists, teleporting
thieves, super-bricks, and so on very well.
>
> << I also see that you have left out some vital real-world police skills: >>
<snip>
>
> We will, in fact, be addressing some of these items in our section on
> corruption.
And here I thought I was being funny, with my suggestion for "Dark Humor
Champions."
> << AK: Donut Shops. >>
Various departments in the Philadelphia area recently inaugurated a
program of setting up all-night substations in convenience stores and
donut shops. Although this was a perfectly sensible suggestion that
gives those establishments increased security at night and provides
numerous substations at little cost to the community, the commentators
and headlines were merciless.
I have frequently had arguments with players who thought that the police
showed up too quickly (when they didn't want them) and too slowly (when
they did want them), and were too efficient (when the PCs were doing
something suspicious). Will L&O contain suggestions for typical ranges
of response times, standard procedures, and so on? I have, I believe, a
fair grasp of such things, but backup is always nice in more ways than
one.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:32:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, John Desmarais wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> >swing lines.
> >
> >Would one use Swinging?
> >Stretching?
> >I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
> >to create a climbing line with that exact power.
> >
> >Suggestions?
>
> Is this the Batman style of fire the gun into the air anywhere in the city and magically
> catch hold of some structure above you, or a semi-realistic device to help you climb up
> the side of a building (or similar object)?
The ability to launch a line up a side of a builiding and then climb the
line.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:35:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Captain Spith wrote:
> Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >
> > How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> > swing lines.
> >
> > Would one use Swinging?
> > Stretching?
> > I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
> > to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>
> I have always done this as stretching, with a small limitation. In
> fact, a line gun is much more limiting than full stretching, since
> basically, it only acts to grab things at a distance (traversing the
> intervening distance is a seperate matter; either a linked movement
> power if the linegun 'auto-retracts', or any existing movement used
> along a path not available without the linegun), and probably can't do
> damage, or perhaps not equivalent damage. The advantages are that
> attacking the line doesn't damage the character and the linegun
> character couldn't be grabbed while 'grabbing' the target.
Any idea was to what sort of values are approprite for these limitations?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:07:15 -0500
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
At 12:18 AM 4/13/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>swing lines.
>
>Would one use Swinging?
>Stretching?
>I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
>to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>
>Suggestions?
Super Agents wrote this up as Stretching:
<QUOTE>
Grapnel Launcher & Retractor - Stretching 4" (That is, 4" line with grapnel
and retractor motor: Throw it with a Grab manuever and if it hits the
retractor hauls the user at 10 STR up the line)
</QUOTE>
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Michael Surbrook" <susano@access.digex.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 13:35:07
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>swing lines.
>
>Would one use Swinging?
>Stretching?
>I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
>to create a climbing line with that exact power.
How about Stretching or Flight? I'd go for the former, having used it
for magic grappling hooks.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: SPD Rules [Long]
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:10:48 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
>Have any players in Puma's game ever bought a Speed higher than
12?
Occasionally. It meant for speedster characters.
Think one had a 15 in one of last games ran.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:12:51 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
At 12:18 AM 4/13/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>swing lines.
>
>Would one use Swinging?
>Stretching?
>I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
>to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>
>Suggestions?
For my own part, I'd recommend a limited form of Flight. It's also
possible to build it with limited Stretching as well, but I'd probably lean
toward Flight.
My Stretching model:
10" Stretching, Grabs & Pulls Only (-1), Range Penalties (-1/2), OAF (14)
My Flight model:
10" Flight, Requires Attack Roll (-1/2), Fragile Climbing Line (-1/2),
Vertical Only (-1), OAF (5)
The Flight model is not only cheaper, but arguably closer to the actual
effect of what happens.
(Aside to Dave Mattingly: take these down for me, would ya?)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:10 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:30:10 -0700
To: Champions Listserver <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Precog Gadgeteer
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
At 07:26 PM 4/12/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>OK, my turn. I have a gadgeteer who must, by special effect, select his
>weapons in advance. He also has a limited precognition that allows him
>to coincidentally select exactly the right things for what he will need.
> "I get this odd feeling that I should take a proton depolarizer
>tonight."
>
>My representation is:
>
>50 50 point VPP, based on Gadgeteering Skill
>37 Control 0 Phase(+1) No Skill Roll(+1)
> Not reconfigurable (-1 to advantages) Restricted Powers(-1/2)
>
>The SFX is that, during play, any uncommitted points may suddenly become
>anything, but a reconfiguration requires a normal gadgeteering roll.
>
>Any comments or better suggestions?
1. Take out the No Skill Roll Advantage, and have the character control
the Pool with Resourcefulness, a new INT-based Skill (which can also be
useful for pulling MacGyver style stunts). (Alternately, if he actually
has Precognition, you could just require a Precog PER Roll, using -1 per
step down the Time Chart as a Range Modifier.)
2. Being able to reset the VPP only at base is a -1/4 Limitation to the
entire Control Cost (half the value of only being able to allocate the
points at base, since they can be allocated in the field and only then get
stuck that way).
3. Consider adding Change as Half Phase Action for +1/2 (as opposed to
+1 for changing as a 0 Phase Action).
4. He could probably still use Gadgeteering and related Skills to change
the devices that he's already pulled out of the Pool, in a normal time
frame.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:43:54 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: SPD Rules [Long]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
At 09:10 AM 4/13/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>
> >Have any players in Puma's game ever bought a Speed higher than
>12?
>
>Occasionally. It meant for speedster characters.
>Think one had a 15 in one of last games ran.
In my long history (nearly two decades) of Champions gaming, I've had
two entities with SPD above 12. One was an alien supercomputer, and the
other a mega-powerful wizard designed to give a challenge to a very
high-powered group.
To handle this, I used a rule similar to yours, Keith. I simply gave a
Phase on each Segment, and then at the Phases appropriate to SPD-12. For
DEX location, I ran the first Phases on full DEX, and then the extras on
half DEX. The computer, with its SPD of 30, also had Phases on one-quarter
DEX (which was 48, so its other Phases were on 24 and 12).
The reason I prefer one-quarter and one-half to one-third and two-thirds
is that it reduces the number of entries on the combat chart. With this
system, the computer had entries at 48, 24, and 12; if thirds were used
instead, it would be at 48, 32, 24 (for the odd-numbered segments), and 16.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle-140.raptor.com from jcalvaneso@raptor.com server @eagle1a.raptor.com ip 209.48.140.11
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:09:54 -0400
From: Justin Calvaneso <jcalvaneso@raptor.com>
Organization: Raptor Systems
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
Hemoglobin, Blood Bank, Red Cross... =P
---
Justin Calvaneso Raptor Systems, Inc.
Test Lab Technician a division of Axent Technologies
jcalvaneso@raptor.com 266 Second Avenue
(781) 530-2362 Waltham, MA 02154
---
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:12:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
---"Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" wrote:
>
> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
Afterglow {Definition: Recombination radiation emitted from a cooling
plasma when the source of ionization (heating, etc) is removed.}
Don't like it? Here a good source of ideas for other names:
Glossary of Frequently Used Terms in Plasma Physics and Fusion Energy
Research <http://www.pppl.gov/~rfheeter/fusion-faq/glossary.html>
or
Frequently Asked Questions about Fusion Research
<http://fusedweb.pppl.gov/FAQ/fusion-faq.html>
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:22:09 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
At 09:20 AM 4/13/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
Sunburn?
Solar Flare?
Hot Stuff?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:04:11 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
>Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
In memory of Wendy O. Williams, who died last week, how about
"Plasmatic"?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
To: andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com (Andreano, Keith HIM, VA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
<sigh> looks like we're back to the old method on the reply to thing... oh
well...
> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
>
What's the character's personality? History?
Culture? Favorite Ice Cream? Favorite Author? Favorite Book?
Etc...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
> > not to mention being redundant with continuous.
>
> That is an interesting point... if Continuing Charges requires that an
> instant power be made Continuous, should Damage Shield have the same
> requirement? Or is this subsumed as part of the trade-off with the "free"
> No Range limitation?
This would seem to be taken as part of the 'free' no range limitation.
Actually, a 'continuous uncontrolled' power bought with damage shield would
presumably hit anyone attacking the person with the damage shield with an
uncontrolled cumulative attack.
>
> A Continuous power used offensively requires a half-phase action (I would
> want to double-check the BBB to be sure whether or not it counts as an
> attack action) to maintain it, and it requires line of sight to the target
> of the power (moot for this particular power). If you wish to "detach" the
> power, you also need Uncontrolled.
While that may have been errata'd, at least my version of the BBB doesn't
mention any requirements beyond remaining within the normal range limits of the
power.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:43:45 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
Her name need not correspond with her powers. There are tons of comic book
examples for characters whose names have no direct correlation with their
powers. What is her personality like? (arguably Apocalypse) What are her
likes and interests? (Thanos) Her goals? (the Leader) Her purpose?
(C:NM's Guard organization or even the Sentinel robots) Is there a word or
phrase that she uses often? (Ultra Girl used the word 'Ultra' in practically
every sentence) Is her ID public? If so, she might play off of her birth
name and/or occupation. (Doc Sampson) If it lends itself, she might even
simply use her first name. (Jesus, Madonna) ;)
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 11:22 AM
> To: 'Champions'
> Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
>
> At 09:20 AM 4/13/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
> >EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
> >or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
>
> Sunburn?
> Solar Flare?
> Hot Stuff?
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:50:35 -0700
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com (Andreano, Keith HIM, VA)
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
At 09:18 AM 4/13/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
><sigh> looks like we're back to the old method on the reply to thing... oh
> well...
>
>> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
>>
> What's the character's personality? History?
>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream? Favorite Author? Favorite Book?
>Etc...
>
Good point. A hero doesn't need a power-related name. Motive is a good
source -- Avenger, Defender, Justicar, etc. Are there any unique or
interesting special effect to the power which could inspire a name? Is
there an older hero/ine the character admires, perhaps with totally
different powers, that she could 'take up the mantle of'? "I am...the NEW
Golden Fury!" Etc.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:09:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
>> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
>>
> What's the character's personality? History?
>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream?
I can just see it: The superheroine Strawberry Ripple...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:40:55 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Maybe I have been running the perks differently from everyone else all this
time. Nevertheless, clarity is good: a detailed discussion of police powers
is appropriate to the book under discussion. >>
And that is what we are trying to do. The reason I have clearly defined it
as including the (Concealed) Weapon Permits is because several Hero products
have included cops which had both Police Powers and Weapons Permit. That's a
redundancy that I am simply trying to eliminate.
<< One is supposed to be able to build a skilled normal... on 50 points or so
and a competent normal... on 100 pts. >>
For the superhero genre and limited others, yes. But that's not what I am
discussing.
<< Now, out comes a statement from you that this cannot be done. I quote
you *exactly*: >>
> Oh ye of little experience as a cop... ;) I'm telling you, there is no
way
> to build a realistically portrayed street cop in the Hero System with so few
points
Thank you for making my point for me. I stand by that statement, but you
obviously misunderstand what I've said. Allow me to restate it with added
emphasis (my own):
There is no way to build a REALISTICALLY PORTRAYED street cop in the Hero
System with so few points. <LOL>
Now, I fully understand what you're saying, but please acknowledge this -- I
never said that this was the only way to portray cops in the Hero System.
Indeed, for some genres you certainly don't want the full-blown "realistic
cop" write-up. Why is there so much confusion about this?
<< This means that Hero is now introducing a new type of campaign: >>
This is something that you have stated based on incorrect interpretation of
my comments and postings. I never said that there was a new campaign (other
than the San Angelo campaign setting, of course <G>).
<< ...one in which normals are built on Heroic or Superheroic points. If cops
are
going to be 200 pts, so are doctors, scientists, etc. >>
If that's what it took for a full, accurate "real world" write-up then I
wouldn't be opposed to it at all. But I think you're overreacting to this
whole thing.
<< Such character designs are going to be inappropriate to a supers campaign,
unless it is very high powered. >>
Not true. Contrary to your apparent opinion, sheer point totals are not the
only way to guage the relative "power level" of a character. But on the other
hand, I have already stated several times on this list that this "cop" write-
up would not be appropriate to all campaigns. So I'm glad to see we both agree
on that.
<< This would be fine if there were good guidance on building realistic cops
for less, but you have just disclaimed that. >>
No I have not. Certainly you can build a functional, though patently
"unrealistic" cop on less than 100 points, or even 50 points if you want to. I
am simply saying that these low-point cops will not be accurate portrayals of
real-world cops. But on the other hand, not every campaign *needs* accurate
portrayals of real-world cops.
In Law & Order we're trying to cover a lot of ground and a lot of campaign
styles. This whole thread is amusing, because it is discussing only one part
of a great big book! :D
<< I disagree that real-world police could handle mentalists, teleporting
thieves, super-bricks, and so on very well. >>
I never claimed that they could. Once again you are making inferences that
are incorrect, and trying to attribute "claims" to me that I have never made.
Perhaps I am being too general in my comments?
> We will, in fact, be addressing some of these items in our section on
corruption.
<< And here I thought I was being funny, with my suggestion for "Dark Humor
Champions." >>
Just another example of the fact that there is a lot more to the Law & ORder
book than just 200 Pt. cops. ;)
<< Will L&O contain suggestions for typical ranges of response times, standard
procedures, and so on? >>
Yes, of course. You could use L&O to generate characters for a cop campaign
if you wanted to. There will be a lot of info, for GMs of nearly every
campaign style and type. (Note: I said *nearly* every...<G>)
<< I have, I believe, a fair grasp of such things, but backup is always nice
in more ways than one.>>
You're telling me? Boy do I have some stories about backup. Whew! <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:47:21 -0700
To: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins), champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:09 PM 4/13/98 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>> Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>>> EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>>> or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
>>>
>> What's the character's personality? History?
>>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream?
>
>I can just see it: The superheroine Strawberry Ripple...
I dunno, that's actually a cool name. I can see it for a late 60s/early 70s
character, actually...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Strawberry Ripple (Was: I need a name)
To: lizard@mrlizard.com (Lizard)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >>> Made a character.
> >>>
> >> What's the character's personality? History?
> >>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream?
> >
> >I can just see it: The superheroine Strawberry Ripple...
>
> I dunno, that's actually a cool name. I can see it for a late 60s/early 70s
> character, actually...
Right, there's my next character. :) Maybe I'll use that when GMing of
the game passes from me to one of the other players. :)
Now I've got to figure out just what a character with a name like that
would be like.
Why is it I can't get that 'Strawberry Fields' Beattles song out of my
head? :)
This'll be fun. :) A perfect compliment to 'Angel Dust', 'Rasta Man',
and some of my other such characters. :)
Rook ?U ?k 1b 'no giga pets were harmed in the production of this message'.
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Roleplay
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:24:52 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> What's the character's personality? History?
>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream? Favorite Author? Favorite Book?
>Etc...
Personality:
Aggressive and tough, but this is to conceal the fact
that she is very insecure and unsure of herself and
her abilities. She is only 18 and big nasty people
are trying to kill her (Viper, Genocide).
History:
(Very abbreviated version) Powers manifested 1st year
in college. Got involved with "plot" on campus. Starts
out small and snowballs quick with Viper being involved.
Genocide shows up (She is a Mutant) and all hell breaks
loose. The bad guys mostly kill each other (^_^) and when
the smoke clears she is left standing and gets the credit!
She looks good on TV (COM 20) so the press eat it up!
She thinks she didn't do much, but she actually did well,
especially considering how young/inexperienced/out
classed she was. There's more, but that's all for now...
Culture:
American middle class suburban.
Favorite Ice Cream:
Just about anything with chocolate.
Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
Motivation:
Stop injustice/evil.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:30:57 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
><< Maybe I have been running the perks differently from everyone else all this
>time. Nevertheless, clarity is good: a detailed discussion of police powers
>is appropriate to the book under discussion. >>
>
> And that is what we are trying to do. The reason I have clearly defined it
>as including the (Concealed) Weapon Permits is because several Hero products
>have included cops which had both Police Powers and Weapons Permit. That's a
>redundancy that I am simply trying to eliminate.
I hope you're going to cover more than just the US Police forces (I think
you will, but I want to be clear on this). A good paragraph on how forces
differ in powers/restrictions/operational procedure for European nations,
Asian countries, etc. would be _greatly_ appreciated, I'll tell you!
> Thank you for making my point for me. I stand by that statement, but you
>obviously misunderstand what I've said. Allow me to restate it with added
>emphasis (my own):
>
> There is no way to build a REALISTICALLY PORTRAYED street cop in the Hero
>System with so few points. <LOL>
>
> Now, I fully understand what you're saying, but please acknowledge this -- I
>never said that this was the only way to portray cops in the Hero System.
>Indeed, for some genres you certainly don't want the full-blown "realistic
>cop" write-up. Why is there so much confusion about this?
Perhaps because the HERO system (not just Champions) encourages you to build
a Medical Doctor on 6 points (Paramedic, KS: Medicine 11-, License). My
brother's a MD; a 'realistically portrayed' MD would cost as much or more
than a 'realistically portrayed' Police Officer. But that's neither here nor
there. Way back when _I_ originally got outraged at the concept of a 200
point cop; _I_ was talking about overpriced agents (from Genocide). A flip
remark (which you corrected and explained later to my total satisfaction) on
your part made it seem like you were proposing 200 point agent-level cops in
superhero games.
> Not true. Contrary to your apparent opinion, sheer point totals are not the
>only way to guage the relative "power level" of a character. But on the other
>hand, I have already stated several times on this list that this "cop" write-
>up would not be appropriate to all campaigns. So I'm glad to see we both agree
>on that.
Right.
><< This would be fine if there were good guidance on building realistic cops
>for less, but you have just disclaimed that. >>
>
> No I have not. Certainly you can build a functional, though patently
>"unrealistic" cop on less than 100 points, or even 50 points if you want to. I
>am simply saying that these low-point cops will not be accurate portrayals of
>real-world cops. But on the other hand, not every campaign *needs* accurate
>portrayals of real-world cops.
Well, it depends on your definition of 'accurate' and how broad you allow
PS: Police Officer to be. Remember, this is the system of 6 point doctors!
> In Law & Order we're trying to cover a lot of ground and a lot of campaign
>styles. This whole thread is amusing, because it is discussing only one part
>of a great big book! :D
Which I look forward to. I'm a Canadian, and the number of police groups in
the United States amazes me: County Sheriffs (elected! <boggle!!>), FBI
Special Agents, Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco, Secret Service,
Treasury Department, US Marshals, Texas Rangers, etcetera. I'm sure you
Yankees are wondering about our RCMP (and Ontario and Quebec provincial
police). I expect this book to give the skinny on all these organizations.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
To: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
Cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Andreano, Keith HIM,VA writes:
> Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
> Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
Oh my. Hm...I don't know an awful lot about Joan of Arc, but I'd be surprised
if you can't find some idea for a name here ;).
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 13 Apr 1998 14:53:58 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael Surbrook writes:
> How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> swing lines.
For a simple climbing line, I would use a few skill levels with the
Climbing skill.
For a winch, I would use Stretching with a lot of non-combat multiples. A
realistic winch would have its own Strength, which would determine how much
it can lift.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTJfQp6VRH7BJMxHAQFojQP+KhPVPo6IlzKDnoH4ZqIjE9hadcf7x+NL
ndU34gxynlCWtgbs5NWR8SRSGa4T83DJEM33lEsQwV+wJE4NkL3ne5QcPl+q13NT
AgRy4/v5E+wNVl5g9vzEQ5h36tJ4V3y1T0rU04si75AEJO8ezDgXdQyQgt46JzWG
Y8XK2UChoJc=
=ncLo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle-140.raptor.com from jcalvaneso@raptor.com server @eagle1a.raptor.com ip 209.48.140.11
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:02:15 -0400
From: Justin Calvaneso <jcalvaneso@raptor.com>
Organization: Raptor Systems
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
GoldRushG wrote:
> No I have not. Certainly you can build a functional, though patently
> "unrealistic" cop on less than 100 points, or even 50 points if you want to. I
> am simply saying that these low-point cops will not be accurate portrayals of
> real-world cops. But on the other hand, not every campaign *needs* accurate
> portrayals of real-world cops.
>
Yupyup. I completely agree. While, IMHO, most of the skills you've chosen for
your COP *are* appropriate, they're just not necessary for an NPC. If I were
running the game, I wouldn't bother with so much detail for some Cop NPC's unless
she/he was a DNPC, teammate, or something similar. A player, on the other hand,
should definately go to this level of detail if they plan on playing a Cop PC. I
guess it's a question of resolution. I prefer my NPC's to occupy fewer pixels than
the PC's, so the extra attention to minscule detail would never see in game use.
---
Justin Calvaneso Raptor Systems, Inc.
Test Lab Technician a division of Axent Technologies
jcalvaneso@raptor.com 266 Second Avenue
(781) 530-2362 Waltham, MA 02154
---
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:10:26 -0700
To: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:24 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
> Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
>
This is a good hook. Crusader? Arcfire? (Bad pun...) Firesword?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:11:33 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple (Was: I need a name)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> >> What's the character's personality? History?
>> >>Culture? Favorite Ice Cream?
>> >
>> >I can just see it: The superheroine Strawberry Ripple...
>>
>> I dunno, that's actually a cool name. I can see it for a late 60s/early 70s
>> character, actually...
>
>Right, there's my next character. :) Maybe I'll use that when GMing of
>the game passes from me to one of the other players. :)
>
>Now I've got to figure out just what a character with a name like that
>would be like.
>Why is it I can't get that 'Strawberry Fields' Beattles song out of my
>head? :)
>This'll be fun. :) A perfect compliment to 'Angel Dust', 'Rasta Man',
>and some of my other such characters. :)
Aagh, I've created a monster...I just wonder what sort of propositions such
a character would have to endure...^_^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:15:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > It's 20 meters tall, covered with ultrahardium armor, carriers enough
> > missiles to destroy a city...and it's sentient and casts spells. How many
> > smegging points is THAT worth?
> >
> > (Hmmm...excpet for the spells, that would pretty much describe a
> > Transformer, so maybe it isn't so Munchkin...)
>
> well if i pay heaps of points for it, it isn't munchkinny at all, yes?
Well, I think I'd allow it only as a GM-controlled construct to
give the players hell, but that's me.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:17:43 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:24 PM 4/13/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
> Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
For me, regarding this character, the name Immolatrix is suggested here.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:23:03 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:30 PM 4/13/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>> In Law & Order we're trying to cover a lot of ground and a lot of campaign
>>styles. This whole thread is amusing, because it is discussing only one part
>>of a great big book! :D
>
>Which I look forward to. I'm a Canadian, and the number of police groups in
>the United States amazes me: County Sheriffs (elected! <boggle!!>), FBI
>Special Agents, Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco, Secret Service,
>Treasury Department, US Marshals, Texas Rangers, etcetera. I'm sure you
>Yankees are wondering about our RCMP (and Ontario and Quebec provincial
>police). I expect this book to give the skinny on all these organizations.
Just on three quick points here:
1. Elected county Sheriffs are mostly just administrators. Some in
particularly rural areas are actually active in the field, but they're the
exception rather than the rule.
2. That's Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).
3. Texas Rangers are basically just the state police; someone who's
actually from Texas could probably clarify further. (Most other states use
the term State Police, though California and I think a couple of others
call it Highway Patrol.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 13 Apr 1998 15:23:38 -0400
Lines: 30
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Justin Calvaneso writes:
> Yupyup. I completely agree. While, IMHO, most of the skills you've
> chosen for your COP *are* appropriate, they're just not necessary for an
> NPC.
Not to mention being unnecessary in general. :)
For instance, a cop's knowledge of "law" is extremely narrow and limited.
If he already has a skill that includes "standard procedures", which I
would subsume under "Professional Skill: Police Officer", he does not need
a separate "KS: Law" skill. He is a cop, not a lawyer. His job is to
enforce certain laws (procedures), not interpret them (lawyer).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTJmOZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFZgwP/cvsBLDXnQNMojUjVhU7bWR+Jezpqp111
RfVsZJzsWoE/obRnvUvJrkY5Yb7fYLS4DwMo5QU6XLXZBHnDOZhaKBja8r55xYqd
hFocSh6cTom5TjHfKCpWVhKhu8dGTWAkkSg4z1ixhmvvdZ+4TfFaDMHQgXtzk8En
PUEi2P3iZ+E=
=4C3d
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:28:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I came up with a total even higher than that. And let's not talk about given
> them a separate Martial Arts Style package for each appropriate weapon (as per
> UMA)! <LOL>
Eh? They don't need to rebuy maneuvers if they are the same
mechanically as another, though skills would have to be purchased for
each. That's what I remember from NH and UMA, anyway.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.139
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:30:14 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Strawberry Ripple
Cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA06268
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Strawberry Ripple sounds to me like a red-headed female super who has
seismic/earth control powers, maybe creating "ripples" along the ground to
knock people off their feet.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail3.bunt.com from uraeus@mail3.bunt.com server @mail3.bunt.com ip 195.178.0.27
From: Rog <uraeus@mail3.bunt.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:54:34 +0200
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
How about d'Arc? (plasma "Arc"; Joan d'Arc; get it?)
Or the Radio City Music Hall Arc-ette? heh heh
-Roger
----------
From: Andreano, Keith HIM,VA [SMTP:andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com]
Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 8:25 PM
<snip>
Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
<snip>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 13 Apr 1998 16:04:12 -0400
Lines: 25
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
David B Stallard writes:
> Strawberry Ripple sounds to me like a red-headed female super who has
> seismic/earth control powers, maybe creating "ripples" along the ground to
> knock people off their feet.
Nah... she's a mentalist with a somewhat nutty sense of humor. Rocky
Road... now that is a brick :).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTJvu56VRH7BJMxHAQFwgQQAsnCXmPB9/KSPLF59Ik2U4GtzKJhKB8PK
UL4Il60hCIm/ZOARL5sRtTHYhDyip0epCFMfj+Irx0n7YODgILSDLIGSl46rK3lw
gm0pDAISsmdIYpP/OUf/5p1vcQ+gA/minpvL51pH+jRi/Z2+YSv2V5vrlgHuRPzz
QLaruhZKkvk=
=0gTn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.ucsf.edu from dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu server @mail.ucsf.EDU ip 128.218.95.23
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
To: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
cc: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Lizard wrote:
> At 01:24 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
> > Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
> >
> This is a good hook. Crusader? Arcfire? (Bad pun...) Firesword?
How about Lightning Sword of Justice?
--Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
* DOS. *
* *
* --Izzy to Gabriel *
* THE PROPHECY II *
*************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:52:20 -0700
To: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: RE: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Cc: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:05 PM 4/13/98 -0700, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Lizard wrote:
>
>> At 01:24 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>> >Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
>> > Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
>> >
>> This is a good hook. Crusader? Arcfire? (Bad pun...) Firesword?
>
>How about Lightning Sword of Justice?
>
Nah, that's a goofy name. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:02:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Also, PRE attacks can be used to inspire, lead, cause fear, etc - they're
> > a lot more versatile than a COM attack, which can basically be used to
> > seduce.
>
> Perhaps it would be better simply to change Seduction to a COM-based
> skill, and be done with it...
The problem is that Seduction is a whole lot more than COM. I'd
perhaps allow a Com roll as a supplimentary skill roll.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On 13 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> David B Stallard writes:
>
> > Strawberry Ripple sounds to me like a red-headed female super who has
> > seismic/earth control powers, maybe creating "ripples" along the ground to
> > knock people off their feet.
>
> Nah... she's a mentalist with a somewhat nutty sense of humor. Rocky
> Road... now that is a brick :).
Supers based off of ice cream...gah...
Well, here's some based off of Ben & Jerry's flavors...
Cool Brittania - Young, long-haired English guy with Cosmic Rollerblades
and a high-fashion wardrobe.
Chunky Monkey - This simian was rocketed into space in an effort to
reproduce the accident that gave the Fantastic Four their powers.
Amazingly, it worked, granting the orangutan (Ook!) both a rocky
exterior and an incredible intellect. (Note that the press gave him
the name - he hates it and will thrash anyone that refers to him as
a 'monkey'.)
Chubby Hubby - Famous villain the Blob gets married, settles down, and
straightens out, eventually using his super-weight and
immobility powers as a force for good.
Holy Cannoli - A defrocked and irreverant Italian priest, he specializes
in fighting vampires, ghosts and other supernatural creatures.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out1.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out1.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.252
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 21:06:18
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Strawberry Ripple
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:08:15 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Does anyone want to host a web site containing all the characters built
>around the name 'Strawberry Ripple'? It would be an interesting look at how
>to go from name to concept to character sheet, and how many different paths
>there are to get there...
>
There are, in the world, people in need of intense psychological help...
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:12:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: "INTERNET:champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus printed versions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I noticed that you can buy printed, 3-hole punched versions of the Hero
> Plus stuff, but these are really expensive. Are the prices this high
> because they are bigger than your average sourcebook, or because of color
> art, or some other reason? I know that the first Hero Plus book (Ultimate
> Super Mage?) was supposed to be huge, but I don't know if that has been
> true for later supplements. Certainly it isn't true for the old books that
> have been "reprinted" in electronic format.
I'd say it's probably because they aren't preprinted so Hero is
forced to have each order printed. That means no bulk discounts. These
are things that would be huge losses were they to be actually reprinted.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:13:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > points are in skills, but once you've bought PS: Police Officer and KS:
> > Police Procedures and mayyyybe KS: Law, a couple weapon FAMs and Combat
> > Driving, what have you got left to buy?
>
> A few Combat Skill Levels with handguns or firearms in general. A street
> cop should be a normal person built on 25 base plus 25 in disadvantages,
> plus whatever experience he may have earned.
And considering they're out having what a game would call
"adventure sessions" about every day or so, they'll build up a lot of XP
really quickly.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 13 Apr 1998 17:30:20 -0400
Lines: 25
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> And considering they're out having what a game would call
> "adventure sessions" about every day or so, they'll build up a lot of XP
> really quickly.
No, they are doing their jobs, same as teachers, librarians, constructon
workers, hacks, and Unix sysmonsters.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTKD6p6VRH7BJMxHAQG09gP/XtTaeXtG9JIB7bzPdsMCMaA3TqYnnQy8
+Dcd4K6Ftv0aIv3944iir6ybkwv4hfR+Un2G9da+MGV8N7tbyVK1C0oSNgfqknHh
rNGKKiuwbh2TFjXTahLqhMf80hgaklhyrJnDATpbuH6kslWbgMB10hrBuxldO1Xl
32BNgpx9blI=
=yYNl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:46:40 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I hope you're going to cover more than just the US Police forces (I think
you will, but I want to be clear on this). A good paragraph on how forces
differ in powers/restrictions/operational procedure for European nations,
Asian countries, etc. would be _greatly_ appreciated, I'll tell you! >>
We certainly intend to provide an overview of some police forces from around
the world, including Interpol (which is not a govt law enforcement agency, per
se', but is still very cool <G>). The foreign (non-US) agencies will not be
covered in as much detail as the US agencies, but there will still be a good
amount of info.
<< Perhaps because the HERO system (not just Champions) encourages you to
build a Medical Doctor on 6 points (Paramedic, KS: Medicine 11-, License). My
brother's a MD; a 'realistically portrayed' MD would cost as much or more than
a 'realistically portrayed' Police Officer. >>
I would like to see the write-up.
<< But that's neither here nor there. >>
Yes it most certainly is. That is exactly what we are discussing here.
<< Way back when _I_ originally got outraged at the concept of a 200 point
cop; _I_ was talking about overpriced agents (from Genocide). A flip remark
(which you corrected and explained later to my total satisfaction) on your
part made it seem like you were proposing 200 point agent-level cops in
superhero games. >>
They can certainly be used in superhero campaigns. There is nothing
unbalancing about them at all. In fact, they perform the same in combat as 50
Pt cops. :/
<< Well, it depends on your definition of 'accurate' and how broad you allow
PS: Police Officer to be. >>
I would think you now know what my definition of realistic is in regards to
cops: listing all of the Hero System skills they would realistically possess.
As for PS: Police Officer, I have also declared what I think it is good for
and what its shortcomings are.
<< Remember, this is the system of 6 point doctors! >>
This is a system that allows 6 point doctors *and* 200 point cops. Hero
System is flexible and allows you to customize it quite a bit. Do not rule out
the full blown "PCs are Cops in an Action Film" campaign, which would
certainly benefit from the detailed write-ups I suggest.
<< I'm sure you Yankees are wondering about our RCMP (and Ontario and Quebec
provincial police). >>
Careful. ;) "Yankees" is a term generally reserved for those of "Northern"
descent. Them's is fightin' words to a proper red-blodded South'ner! <LOL>
<< I expect this book to give the skinny on all these organizations. >>
Aye, aye! ;) And we will be presenting info on the RCMP, as well.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:48:39 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< If I were running the game, I wouldn't bother with so much detail for some
Cop NPC's unless she/he was a DNPC, teammate, or something similar. >>
Well, you've just provided another argument in support of our presenting the
detailed write-up in the book. Thank you. ;)
<< A player, on the other hand, should definately go to this level of detail
if they plan on playing a Cop PC. >>
That's another good reason. :)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:55:40 -0700
To: Sakura <jeffj@io.com&> Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:04 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>On 13 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>> David B Stallard writes:
>>
>> > Strawberry Ripple sounds to me like a red-headed female super who has
>> > seismic/earth control powers, maybe creating "ripples" along the
ground to
>> > knock people off their feet.
>>
>> Nah... she's a mentalist with a somewhat nutty sense of humor. Rocky
>> Road... now that is a brick :).
>
>Supers based off of ice cream...gah...
>
>Well, here's some based off of Ben & Jerry's flavors...
>
>Cool Brittania - Young, long-haired English guy with Cosmic Rollerblades
> and a high-fashion wardrobe.
You know, I *really* like this one, for some reason. Possibly because I can
actually envision him as a real PC or NPC...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:05:06 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Not to mention being unnecessary in general. :) >>
Oh boy, here we go again... :D
<< ...a cop's knowledge of "law" is extremely narrow and limited. If he
already has a skill that includes "standard procedures", which I would subsume
under "Professional Skill: Police Officer", he does not need a separate "KS:
Law" skill. He is a cop, not a lawyer. His job is to enforce certain laws
(procedures), not interpret them (lawyer).>>
I disagree completely (big surprise, eh). A peace officer must understand
the law in several areas. An officer must understand the elements of crimes as
defined in the penal code. Why? Because the cop will prosecute the accused?
No. Because the cop must determine if a crime has been committed at all!
Sometimes a person does something that the lay person would think was a crime,
only to find out that no crime is committed. That requires not a simple
procedure to follow, but a judgement call on the officer's part that results
from interpreting the law and making factual comparisons.
What are the exceptions to the search & seizure rules? What are the elements
of a battery? Of a kidnapping? What about a public disturbance? Who must be
disturbed for it to be a crime? What is the "reasonable person" theory and how
does it apply to law enforcement? Under what circumstances can you arrest a
person on a misdemeanor warrant at night? If a 4 year child says his daddy
touched his private parts can you arrest the dad on that statement alone? A
landlord has locked a tenant out of their apartment for being 2 days late on
the rent. Is that legal? If it is a vilation of the law, is it a violation of
civil law or criminal law? If your 17 year old son takes the family car
without permission is that auto theft?
There are dozens situations a cop deals with every day that require a very
good knowledge of the law, becuase the cop must make judgement calls (it's
called "officer's discretion"). The officer must interpret the law to a degree
to determine if what he/she is dealing with fits into one of the thousands of
definitions. The law gives the peace officer not just the authority to enforce
the law and to make arrests, but to some degree the authority to NOT make
arrests, too.
I would argue that a cop does, indeed, need KS: Law at the very least. I
broke it down into KS: Criminal Law 11- and KS: Civil Law 8- because most
officers are far less familiar with Civil law, though one plain "KS: Law"
could cover it, I suppose.
As for PS: Police Officer... it doesn't cut it. I understand PS: Police
Officer to be primarily procedural, rather than theoretical.
Peace. :)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo15.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo15.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.37
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:08:12 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< 3. Texas Rangers are basically just the state police; someone who's
actually from Texas could probably clarify further. (Most other states use
the term State Police, though California and I think a couple of others call
it Highway Patrol.) >>
The Texas Department of Public Safety handles the typical "state trooper"
functions, and are the "Highway Patrol" of TX.
If memory serves, the Texas Rangers started as a paramilitary "national
police" of sorts in the Republic of Texas. Since their inception, the Rangers
have been disbanded and reinstated several times. Their most recent
incarnation is essentially in the role of a state police force, yes. Just a
trivial FYI. :)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:09:29 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< And considering they're out having what a game would call "adventure
sessions" about every day or so, they'll build up a lot of XP really quickly.
>>
Daily. Absolutely, without question, those officers working the larger urban
population areas have them daily. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:14:33 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< No, they are doing their jobs, same as teachers, librarians, constructon
workers, hacks, and Unix sysmonsters. >>
Well, so are superheroes. Thus, superhero PCs deserve no experience points
for their adventrues... ever. Hey, I like that! Prevents the need to revamp
the villains from time to time. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from michael.adams@october.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 13 Apr 98 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: Test..
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
To: hero-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
So how is things? Anyone place any Star Trek related games in HERO?
Laters..
Mike
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from michael.adams@october.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 13 Apr 98 15:00:10 -0800
Subject: Alaska UAF Con - April
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
To: hero-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
Gaming con at UAF (university of alaska fairbanks). April 18-19 all day.
Email me for more info. Looking for GMs..
Mike
... "Transporter chief , beam the landing party to the bridge"
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:02:05 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:05 PM 4/13/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> As for PS: Police Officer... it doesn't cut it. I understand PS: Police
>Officer to be primarily procedural, rather than theoretical.
I'd tend to argue that PS: Police Officer would cover all of those Skill
that a police officer would need no more than Familiarity with, like KS:
Civil Law and Weaponsmith, just as part of the "package." If a
full-fledged Skill is needed, then that would probably need to be taken
separately.
> Peace. :)
"Peace, Officer." ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:03 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:04 PM 4/13/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>> > Strawberry Ripple sounds to me like a red-headed female super who has
>> > seismic/earth control powers, maybe creating "ripples" along the
ground to
>> > knock people off their feet.
>>
>> Nah... she's a mentalist with a somewhat nutty sense of humor. Rocky
>> Road... now that is a brick :).
>
>Supers based off of ice cream...gah...
>
>Well, here's some based off of Ben & Jerry's flavors...
>
>Cool Brittania - Young, long-haired English guy with Cosmic Rollerblades
> and a high-fashion wardrobe.
>
>Chunky Monkey - This simian was rocketed into space in an effort to
> reproduce the accident that gave the Fantastic Four their powers.
> Amazingly, it worked, granting the orangutan (Ook!) both a rocky
> exterior and an incredible intellect. (Note that the press gave him
> the name - he hates it and will thrash anyone that refers to him as
> a 'monkey'.)
>
>Chubby Hubby - Famous villain the Blob gets married, settles down, and
> straightens out, eventually using his super-weight and
> immobility powers as a force for good.
>
>Holy Cannoli - A defrocked and irreverant Italian priest, he specializes
> in fighting vampires, ghosts and other supernatural creatures.
Don't forget the African-American killer vigilante, Death By Chocolate.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:08:15 -0700
To: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: The Ultimate Strawberry Ripple
Cc: Ravanos <Ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Does anyone want to host a web site containing all the characters built
around the name 'Strawberry Ripple'? It would be an interesting look at how
to go from name to concept to character sheet, and how many different paths
there are to get there...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
><< I hope you're going to cover more than just the US Police forces (I think
>you will, but I want to be clear on this). A good paragraph on how forces
>differ in powers/restrictions/operational procedure for European nations,
>Asian countries, etc. would be _greatly_ appreciated, I'll tell you! >>
>
> We certainly intend to provide an overview of some police forces from around
>the world, including Interpol (which is not a govt law enforcement agency, per
>se', but is still very cool <G>). The foreign (non-US) agencies will not be
>covered in as much detail as the US agencies, but there will still be a good
>amount of info.
<waves placard> "EQUAL SPACE FOR EVERY NATION!!" :-)
Seriously, though, there are some major differences between various
countries. Another good point to deal with is the varying attitudes towards
police in various nations. Will you also address the criminal justice system
for the various nations? What you can expect if you commit a crime,
conditions in prison, what punishment for what crime, special punishments
found in various nations (flogging in Singapore, etc.), etc.
><< Perhaps because the HERO system (not just Champions) encourages you to
>build a Medical Doctor on 6 points (Paramedic, KS: Medicine 11-, License). My
>brother's a MD; a 'realistically portrayed' MD would cost as much or more than
>a 'realistically portrayed' Police Officer. >>
>
> I would like to see the write-up.
Well, my brother did St.John's training before university, that's Paramedic
to start. Bachelor's Degree in Biochemistry before hitting medschool. That's
SC: Biochemistry and probably SC: Biology and SC: Math and SC: Physics and
SC: Chemistry (the first at INT, the rest at 11-). Medschool itself would
give you SC: Anatomy, SC: Pathology, KS: Medicine (all WELL above 11-). Then
internship would get you PS: Medical Doctor, SC: Surgery (probably at 11-
unless you specialize in surgery) as well as bumping up Paramedic to around
14-. Not to mention that my brother did triathalons well into medschool, so
you can give him an above average STR, DEX, CON, BODY, PD, ED, REC and END,
plus bumped up Running and Swimming. Of course, don't forget the higher than
average INT and EGO (you try dissecting a human corpse!) it takes to be a
doctor, plus Conversation to deal with patients. And this is for a _general_
practitioner - family medicine! Okay, without the Triathalon stuff:
3 Scientist (keeps costs down)
3 +3 INT (at least)
6 +3 EGO (at least)
2 SC: Pre-Med Subject 12-
1 SC: Peripheral Pre-Med Subject* 11-
1 SC: Peripheral Pre-Med Subject* 11-
2 SC: Biology 12-
4 SC: Anatomy** 14-
4 SC: Pathology** 14-
4 KS: Medicine** 14-
7 Paramedic** 14-
1 SC: Surgery 11-
3 PS: Medical Doctor 12-
3 Conversation
1 Perk: License to Practice Medicine
5 Perk: Wealth***
--
50 points. And that's for a General Practitioner. Specialists would go
higher. as time went on, I'd expect the PS: MD to go higher, with small
increases in KS: Medicine, SC: Surgery and Paramedic.
* Generally Math, Physics, Chemistry, Materials Science, etc.
** Bare minimum to qualify for a Medical Doctorate, IMHO.
*** Optional, but most make a lot of money unless they're doing foreign aid
work. Part of the cost probably also covers the prestige a doctor gets in
society.
><< Way back when _I_ originally got outraged at the concept of a 200 point
>cop; _I_ was talking about overpriced agents (from Genocide). A flip remark
>(which you corrected and explained later to my total satisfaction) on your
>part made it seem like you were proposing 200 point agent-level cops in
>superhero games. >>
>
> They can certainly be used in superhero campaigns. There is nothing
>unbalancing about them at all. In fact, they perform the same in combat as 50
>Pt cops. :/
Well, yes, but they aren't _agents_, they're special NPCs. The average cop
is not a walking criminology lab. That's why they call the lab boys to go
over a crime scene, or homicide detectives to investigate a murder - the
_average_ cop is not _properly_ equipped or trained to deal with such
situations. A 200 point cop would be.
><< Remember, this is the system of 6 point doctors! >>
>
> This is a system that allows 6 point doctors *and* 200 point cops. Hero
>System is flexible and allows you to customize it quite a bit. Do not rule out
>the full blown "PCs are Cops in an Action Film" campaign, which would
>certainly benefit from the detailed write-ups I suggest.
I'm not. But I do advocate, unless you _have_ to detail everything, that
NPCs be built on a 'rock-bottom' basis - it minimises the work a GM has to
do when running the character. I really hope you have a short bit on "If you
want cheap, low detail cops, here's the absolute minimum they should be
built with".
><< I'm sure you Yankees are wondering about our RCMP (and Ontario and Quebec
>provincial police). >>
>
> Careful. ;) "Yankees" is a term generally reserved for those of "Northern"
>descent. Them's is fightin' words to a proper red-blodded South'ner! <LOL>
Okay. Yankees and Rednecks it is :-).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sac-d.mp.campus.mci.net from nexus@uky.campus.mci.net server @sac-d.mp.campus.mci.net ip 204.71.76.243
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:14 PM 4/13/98 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< No, they are doing their jobs, same as teachers, librarians, constructon
>workers, hacks, and Unix sysmonsters. >>
>
> Well, so are superheroes. Thus, superhero PCs deserve no experience points
>for their adventrues... ever. Hey, I like that! Prevents the need to revamp
>the villains from time to time. ;)
As I've seen Superhero PCs have alot of "downtime" such as standard patrols,
day to day activites that they don't get experience for or its lumped into
"roleplaying" bonuses. I'd dare say the same things applies to police
officers, firefighters and others with dangerous professions. Gamewise, they
wouldn't rack up XP everytime they went to work, perhaps not even every time
something "exciting" happened.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:44:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Strawberry Ripple
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: Ravanos <Ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here's my take on the groovy babe Strawberry Ripple.
She's a far out, man... She was once a square geek-child, but
after an accident with some chemical substances, she gained the ability to
change into S.R. Now she fights 'the man' sand speaks out for the rights
of hip and happening young people everywhere. An activist, the fuzz don't
appreciate her much... but she tunes them in with her 'strawberry love
wave', (AoE Radius Mental Illusions, based on CON, illusions based on
target's subconcious perceptions of the world).
Other powers I would suggest are Aura Perception, Change
Environment (just for funked out lighting and lava lamp effects), Mind
Control (as above, to instill feelings of serenity, peace, and love for
your fellow man), and even gliding or flight (with bad blue screen special
effects in the background).
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo15.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo15.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.37
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:57:13 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Seriously, though, there are some major differences between various
countries.>>
Why, yes, there are.
<< Will you also address the criminal justice system for the various nations?
>>
To a limited extent, yes. basically we may make some comparisons of the
basic stuff, but we can't go into too much detail about each country's justice
system, not even our own (we're limiting it to the part that law enforcement
officers play in the justice system).
The book is primarily focused on law enforcement officers in the US,
obviously. However, if there wqere sufficient demand, I guess we could look at
doing an "International Law and Order" book if we had some authros for it. ;)
<< 50 points. And that's for a General Practitioner. >>
I think someone sees exactly what it is I've been talking about. ;)
<< Well, yes, but they aren't _agents_, they're special NPCs. >>
Semantics. You're comparing a label attached to a point total (re: "Agent")
to my suggestion for a fully fleshed out simulation of a real-world type
character. If you want to consider it a "Major NPC," then by all means do so.
It makes no difference. There is absolutely nbothing that says a cop cannot be
a "major" character as far as points go. By the same token, I never said you
couldn't make due with 25 Point cops in a campaign if that's all it needs.
<< The average cop is not a walking criminology lab. That's why they call the
lab boys to go over a crime scene, or homicide detectives to investigate a
murder - the
_average_ cop is not _properly_ equipped or trained to deal with such
situations. A 200 point cop would be. >>
I find it interesting that you are telling an average law enforcement
officer what an average law enforcement officer is capable of doing in the
real world. I never claimed cops were "walking crime labs." I think you need
to re-read my specific comments about the Forensic Medicine skill in an
earlier post.
<< I'm not. But I do advocate, unless you _have_ to detail everything, that
NPCs be built on a 'rock-bottom' basis - it minimises the work a GM has to do
when running the character. >>
Some GMs *like* to have detailed write-ups. Some GMs aren't bothered by a
little more work when running characters. Nobody is twisting your arms and
saying that you must accept this write-up as the *only* valid write-up for a
cop in all games. Good golly, you can do whatever you want. We're not
mandating anything.
<<I really hope you have a short bit on "If you want cheap, low detail cops,
here's the absolute minimum they should be built with". >>
I get the sneaking feeling that some people are just not reading my posts.
Yes, we are planning to include a section on developing low-cost cops.
However, it will not be a large portion of the book. That would be like simply
listing one single generic "Martial Arts" style in The Ultimate Martial
Artist. <LOL>
The book is called "Law and Order," folks. We are delving into the genre and
the topic in order to provide a lot of good, deailed info about law enfocement
in general, for use in any modern genre game. You don't have to use the
material at all if you don't want. But all of the criticism is just mind
boggling to me given that nop one has read the book yet (obviously), nor even
seen the outline.
For months I have received nothing but positive comments from Hero fans
telling me they are eagerly awaiting the book, can't wait to see what kind of
Hero System stats we list for things (including police vehicles, weapons,
armor, characters, etc.), the campaign info and tips, character archetypes,
and so on.
Then I post one teeny tiny portion of the info that will be in the book
and.. BANG! You'd think we were responsible for WWIII! <LOL> Give it a chance,
folks. There's a lot more to it than a single 200 point write-up of a cop.
mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:08:55 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< As I've seen Superhero PCs have alot of "downtime" such as standard
patrols>>
Okay, I am going to clarify the following comment right now -- I am talking
about big city patrol cops. The comment itself is:
How much downtime do you think there is on patrol in a city? If you think
that the average swing shift patrol has hours of dead time, you are woefully
mistaken. On any given weeknight swing shift patrol, I responded to no less
than 20 calls in an 8 hour period. Before you start using averagetimes (let's
see, that's 24 minutes per call) keep in mind travel time.
Driving to a call can take up most of the time spent "assigned" to a call.
The average response time when I worked was about 10-15 minutes. That's a busy
night! Granted, I worked the county and not the city (city cops tend to have
more cops per capita and smaller patrol districts resulting in a lower
response time to calls and a lower response time for backup).
It's hard to put into words the chaos that goes on on patrol. But we're
going to do our best in Law and Order. ;)
<< I'd dare say the same things applies to police officers, firefighters and
others with dangerous professions. Gamewise, they wouldn't rack up XP
everytime they went to work, perhaps not even every time something "exciting"
happened. >>
An average night may have something like: two or more silent burglary alarms
(usually false), one or two silent robbery alarms (usually employee error or a
disturbance only, but not always), several domestic violence calls, a missing
child (11 yrs or younger), a suicidal subject, a major traffic accident, two
or more traffic stops, a shoplifting or beer run, drive-by shooting, loud
music complaint, a felony warrant arrest or two, a high speed chase... PER
PATROL UNIT.
This is no joke. We're talking an average night in a city.
Fights, shootings, investigations, consoling, counseling work, arrests and
booking, car and foot chases are all pretty "exciting," usually. While in game
terms probably not worth 1 EP each, they could certainly add up quickly. ;)
My veteran cop NPCs are not typically slouches by any stretch. But again, in
a superhero campaign, even my 200-250 Point cops are no match for one 200
point hero PC (or supervillain NPC). That's what the heroes are for. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:14:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Reply-To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More book reviews, please
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> really planning to print that anyway.) Of course, I'm also running
> Windows 3.11, which might be part of the difference -- I would go into
> some of the comments I've heard about Windows 95, but I believe this is a
> G-rated list :) .
Well, I, like many, was totally Anti-Win95 up until last summer.
I was then forced to deal with it, Win 3.1, Win for Workgroups, and Novel
on a regular basis as part of my Computer Tech job.
I must say that was enough to convince me to switch from 3.1 to 95
when I upgraded my hardware. It was much easier to do anything involving
networking of any type, as well as being a little less eclectic. Win 95
is just not as bad as Win 3.1, which doesn't say much, but does say
something. I still get a lot of crashes, but got many more from 3.1. I'm
still looking forward to an eventual switch to a Sun OS.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:18:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I won't strongly contest the presence of this Skill, but since you said
> "over time, it gradually adds", doesn't that imply that the baseline cop
> will *not* have CSLs, placing this into in the category of things that
> should be added on later?
But the baseline cop is _not_ a rookie. That would be a special
toned-down package, IMO. Most cops aren't rookies.
> Acquired during his time on the beat, yes. Not on his first day out of the
> academy.
Again, the base cop will have at least a few years of experience.
> Personally, in many cases I'd be happy to play using the PS: Cop and not
> much else, but only if the GM agreed that the PS covers 95% of what you've
> listed above. I think most GMs would balk at the PS coverage being that
> extensive, in which case I'd have to go with something much like what
> you've described above.
Right. That was a damn incredible list, making me absolutely
convinced that I must pick up the book when it is released. Many other
jobs could recive this sort of fleshing out, especially military.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:20:39 EDT
To: trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< That was a damn incredible list, making me absolutely convinced that I must
pick up the book when it is released. >>
Thanks, Tim. ;)
<< Many other jobs could recive this sort of fleshing out, especially
military. >>
Well, now that you mention it, we are covering Military Police in the book
as well... ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:22:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: COM rules [Really Long!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Actually, I don't think *any* psychologically-based attack would have
> much effect on dead people.
But, perhaps, a dead person could make a Com-based attack. We
probably don't want to think about it.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:25:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << I'd argue the police sergeant who showed up had the full skill, not just
> familiarity, but by the time someone is ready for the sergeant's exam they've
> racked up some XPs.>>
>
> Being eligible for the Sgt.'s exam is based almost entirely on years of
> service in our department. Just FYI.
That is XP, isn't it? Just plain experience in the field?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:44:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> ><< And knowledge of Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight. >>
> >
> > Is that so?
>
> Of course! That's part of what differentiates it from PS: Mercinary Soldier.
> Chivalry was (supposed to be) part of the professional etiquette of the
> knight, neh?
You seem really willing to give an awful lot just with the PS. By
this estimation, PS: Doctor will be enough to do any and all medical
procedures and PS: Translator will allow you to speak whatever languages
you are translating.
> Exactly. If a knight wants to 'impress' the ladies with how well he dances,
> it's time for him to buy PS: Dancing (KS: Dancing would be theoretical and
> historical knowledge...IOW, Dance Masters only).
This is a huge part of the chivalric practice, especially with
fictional knights. Courtly abilities and reputations were as large as
battlefield abilities and reputations. If the latter requires separate
skill purchases, the former should as well. Adding musical skills would
be a big plus. You might also think about conversation and seduction.
> I can't help but wonder if the 'Everyman' skills in a campaign shouldn't
> depend on the background of the individual - namely, the social class they
> come from, as bought as a Perk/Disad. Nobles (Perk:Nobility) and Peasants
> (Phys.Lim.:Serf) should in theory have broadly different 'Everyman' skills,
> should they not?
Nope. At that point, they aren't held by "everyman". As the
medieval English play, this applies to absolutely everyone, in theory.
You'll have some that won't even take the baseline level, but that's
because we allow for what the majority will have. In this case, there's
not a whole lot that is going to go into the Medieval everyman. A
language, possibly an AK, possibly a KS on local personages.
> But those that _do_ know are either club dwellers (who do little else but
> work at day and club at night) or trained dancers. And I wasn't talking
> about improvising per se, but simply getting by with a few basic dance steps.
That won't help your rep at all in a highly sophisticated court.
> The problem is that when you get to 'picky' about who has what skills,
> almost _any_ human being needs 100+ points to be properly represented. Even
> the stuff from your student work days would provide a half dozen PS's, if
> only at the FAM level.
Not really. Most have been forgotten already. However, the base
person for the Everyman has definately _not_ gone to college. We're
talking a High School education with a simple profession. Someone who has
gone through a 4-year degree should be at least a 25 point character.
> After all, you can recognize the flags of your state, city and township,
> right? Same thing; area knowledge. Knights applying for a 'new' coat of arms
Um, no. I can get the Federal, that's about it. I may have
learned the others, but I've moved and stuff. At the same time, I
definately have an 8- AK with Jacksonville, IL, an 8- AK with the Joliet
IL area, and a 14- or 15- AK with the Channahon and Minooka, IL area. I
probably also have an 8- with Chicago proper and an 8- with IL in general.
Heck, as I can name and place all the states, most of the capitols, and
many of the major cities, I probably have an 8- or 11- AK, The US and, as
I was a geography wiz in my earlier days who could place basically any
country, most with capitol, I probably have an AK 8-, The World. That
said, the flags would get me on a lot of those. I don't have a KS in
flags.
> consulted with Heralds to insure that they did not conflict with other
> crests (a serious no-no); there's no way the 'average' knight would have the
> knowledge to perform this kind of research - and that's primarily what KS:
> Heraldry is, IMHO.
Right. But I'd argue that should be PS: Herald and/or a SS:
Heraldy. The KS would actually be KS: Crests and Coats of Arms.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.airmail.net from ghoyle1@airmail.net server @mail.airmail.net ip 206.66.12.40
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:03:07 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id VAA21349
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some "cardboard hero" type counters in electronic format?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sac-a.mp.campus.mci.net from nexus@uky.campus.mci.net server @sac-a.mp.campus.mci.net ip 204.71.76.240
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:12:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 09:08 PM 4/13/98 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< As I've seen Superhero PCs have alot of "downtime" such as standard
>patrols>>
>
> Okay, I am going to clarify the following comment right now -- I am talking
>about big city patrol cops. The comment itself is:
>
> How much downtime do you think there is on patrol in a city? If you think
>that the average swing shift patrol has hours of dead time, you are woefully
>mistaken. On any given weeknight swing shift patrol, I responded to no less
>than 20 calls in an 8 hour period. Before you start using averagetimes (let's
>see, that's 24 minutes per call) keep in mind travel time.
>
> Driving to a call can take up most of the time spent "assigned" to a call.
>The average response time when I worked was about 10-15 minutes. That's a busy
>night! Granted, I worked the county and not the city (city cops tend to have
>more cops per capita and smaller patrol districts resulting in a lower
>response time to calls and a lower response time for backup).
>
> It's hard to put into words the chaos that goes on on patrol. But we're
>going to do our best in Law and Order. ;)
>
><< I'd dare say the same things applies to police officers, firefighters and
>others with dangerous professions. Gamewise, they wouldn't rack up XP
>everytime they went to work, perhaps not even every time something "exciting"
>happened. >>
>
> An average night may have something like: two or more silent burglary alarms
>(usually false), one or two silent robbery alarms (usually employee error or a
>disturbance only, but not always), several domestic violence calls, a missing
>child (11 yrs or younger), a suicidal subject, a major traffic accident, two
>or more traffic stops, a shoplifting or beer run, drive-by shooting, loud
>music complaint, a felony warrant arrest or two, a high speed chase... PER
>PATROL UNIT.
>
> This is no joke. We're talking an average night in a city.
>
> Fights, shootings, investigations, consoling, counseling work, arrests and
>booking, car and foot chases are all pretty "exciting," usually. While in game
>terms probably not worth 1 EP each, they could certainly add up quickly. ;)
Exciting yes, but still "routine", definatly not worth a point of experience
for every night showing up for work. If so, Super PCs should get one for
every mugger they stop, every cat the flying guy gets out of tree on their
patrols
The biggest objetion I have to the 200+ pt cop (or any "realistic NPC) is
that it does make PCs look incompotent. A hero who's a cop in his secret id
is likely going to come out quite a bit "underskilled" along these lines.
This is really going to stick out in low level "Dark Champions" games where
investigation is spotlighted unless the PCs all resemble the Harbinger of
Justice point totalwise....
> My veteran cop NPCs are not typically slouches by any stretch. But again, in
>a superhero campaign, even my 200-250 Point cops are no match for one 200
>point hero PC (or supervillain NPC). That's what the heroes are for. ;)
Perhaps on a combat basis but skillwise is another issue.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:21:12 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
><< Will you also address the criminal justice system for the various nations?
> To a limited extent, yes. basically we may make some comparisons of the
>basic stuff, but we can't go into too much detail about each country's justice
>system, not even our own (we're limiting it to the part that law enforcement
>officers play in the justice system).
Well, knowing what is a crime in which country would be nice. Especially the
colorful ones, like "No chewing gum in Singapore."
> The book is primarily focused on law enforcement officers in the US,
>obviously. However, if there wqere sufficient demand, I guess we could look at
>doing an "International Law and Order" book if we had some authros for it. ;)
Well, with good reason, but having reasonably detailed knowledge of the
legal systems and police forces of, say, the G7 countries, would be oh-so
invaluable for internationaly style games! And this sort of material is
cross-game stuff; worthwhile regardless of the system used. Some of the
stuff in Dark Champions is a good example; namely the Organized Crime (a bit
more about crime outside the US would have been good - who runs crime in
India? South Africa?) and Forensics sections are useful regardless of the
game system.
><< 50 points. And that's for a General Practitioner. >>
>
> I think someone sees exactly what it is I've been talking about. ;)
To a degree. But HERO is perfectly comfortable 'blowing off' those detailed
writeups for 'stock' characters. Even in a Police-centered campaign, I'd
expect the standard police officer to be written up pretty much the same as
in a Superhero campaign.
>a "major" character as far as points go. By the same token, I never said you
>couldn't make due with 25 Point cops in a campaign if that's all it needs.
True, but I get a sneaking suspicion you might be a tad offended if it
happened in your campaign ^_^. That's okay, I see that all the time; write
up a NPC who has the same job as one of your players, and he'll say: "But he
needs this, and this, and this, and this..."
><<I really hope you have a short bit on "If you want cheap, low detail cops,
>here's the absolute minimum they should be built with". >>
> Yes, we are planning to include a section on developing low-cost cops.
>However, it will not be a large portion of the book. That would be like simply
>listing one single generic "Martial Arts" style in The Ultimate Martial
>Artist. <LOL>
Don't laugh, Watchers of the Dragon couldn't build 'popcorn' ninja to fight
heroic characters on less than 150 points, and made ninja for fighting
superheroes start at 250 points*. THIS is the sort of error I don't want to
see in Law and Order. I just want to stress the importance of starting the
scale as low as possible/believable - from there, go as high as you please!
Watchers of the Dragon _didn't_ make allowances for most styles of game play
- they had the uber-ninjas galore, but lacked the lower end. Ninja Hero is
better in this respect, giving 100 and 120 point heroic ninja, which is
probably the reasonable bottom end on ninja-hood.
*and this was a fairly combat-effective 250 to boot. DEX 18 SPD 4 with 7
martial arts maneuvers. This was the 'worst' ninja they had to offer?
> Then I post one teeny tiny portion of the info that will be in the book
>and.. BANG! You'd think we were responsible for WWIII! <LOL> Give it a chance,
>folks. There's a lot more to it than a single 200 point write-up of a cop.
I expect that; you made that clear very rapidly. I just wanted to point out
that 'abstracted' is not the same as 'unrealistic', and abstracted costs a
whole lot less (what if I want to have Police Officers as followers, or
Summon them? I want them cheap and cost effective as possible, right? :-).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:06:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > And considering they're out having what a game would call
> > "adventure sessions" about every day or so, they'll build up a lot of XP
> > really quickly.
>
> No, they are doing their jobs, same as teachers, librarians, constructon
> workers, hacks, and Unix sysmonsters.
Ah. In which case, Superheroes, merely doing their "jobs" as
superheroes, would get absolutely no XP, thus removing any need for XP.
Super Agents in a Superagent campaign would also only be doing their
"job", and would get nothing for it.
I'm sorry, Rat, you've said some pretty stupid things, but this
about takes the cake.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:21:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << That was a damn incredible list, making me absolutely convinced that I must
> pick up the book when it is released. >>
>
> Thanks, Tim. ;)
No problem. This is the sort of thing that can easily sell
outside of actual Hero gamers. I could see White Wolfers picking this up
to flesh out a Vampire campaign.
> << Many other jobs could recive this sort of fleshing out, especially
> military. >>
>
> Well, now that you mention it, we are covering Military Police in the book
> as well... ;)
That's great, but I think a Military Hero book would go over well.
cover the various branches with specialization packages. Cover training
and procedure, etc.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp1.globalserve.net from hartjes@ionsys.com server @smtp1.globalserve.net ip 209.90.144.2
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:22:56 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <hartjes@ionsys.com>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, Rat, you've said some pretty stupid things, but this
> about takes the cake.
>
> -Tim Gilberg
I was just wondering how many messages it would take until this topic
would degenerate into personal insults and attacks.
It is very easy to build a cop at almost any point total. It all
depends on what you think the cop deserves in the way of skills and what
is covered by PS: Law Enforcement Agent.
Sheesh. I thought the Reply-To thing was bad...
Chris Hartjes
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 13 Apr 1998 23:30:15 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> Ah. In which case, Superheroes, merely doing their "jobs" as
> superheroes, would get absolutely no XP, thus removing any need for XP.
> Super Agents in a Superagent campaign would also only be doing their
> "job", and would get nothing for it.
Sorry, Tim, but street cops are *NOT* the heroes of the story. They do
*NOT* get experience in the same fashion that PCs and major villains will.
They do *NOT* need a huge (relatively) expenditure of points in various
legal skills that will never be used.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTLYRJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHH/QP+PTjzofzCIGT00nbJTDRHcB9WDoKl8UjP
282J1X989StkRnC4OYuq3ygWIb2xN/qzk7a4AN0FdDotcSVkc92017EQHsNR/N/+
IW2a8vnsZ/aCF+EpBWzh60qV3NbdYUyO7kkmcG1VBpKKtAhrG8/qoSbE3R3aI2++
ZJ/Oq+Ai2IA=
=Migt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo wnsc_mail.centraltx.net from ronald@centraltx.net server root@mail.centraltx.net ip 208.135.247.48
From: "Ron Abitz" <ronald@centraltx.net>
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:42:17 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<SNIPPED>
>
> ><< I'm sure you Yankees are wondering about our RCMP (and Ontario and
Quebec
> >provincial police). >>
> >
> > Careful. ;) "Yankees" is a term generally reserved for those of
"Northern"
> >descent. Them's is fightin' words to a proper red-blodded South'ner!
<LOL>
>
> Okay. Yankees and Rednecks it is :-).
Hey you missed the people from the midwest and the northwest. Oh and the
people from Califiona<G>
Ron Abitz
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mars.superlink.net from why@superlink.net server root@mars.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.9
X-Sender: why@mail.superlink.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:01:33 -0400
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 08:44 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>> ><< And knowledge of Chivalry would definitely be part of PS: Knight. >>
>> >
>> > Is that so?
>>
>> Of course! That's part of what differentiates it from PS: Mercinary
Soldier.
>> Chivalry was (supposed to be) part of the professional etiquette of the
>> knight, neh?
>
> You seem really willing to give an awful lot just with the PS. By
>this estimation, PS: Doctor will be enough to do any and all medical
>procedures and PS: Translator will allow you to speak whatever languages
>you are translating.
No. That's silly. PS: Knight is the minimum skill a knight needs to get
through a typical day without getting hanged by his liege lord. Chivalry
basics would be included. Grooming a horse would be in it. Court
etiquette as practiced by a knight would be in it. Without any other skill
he would always properly address his superiors, properly dress down his
pages, and properly handle his equipment. WF: Sword and Riding are about
all else he NEEDS. (And as I'll contend below, he only needs an 11- in PS:
Knight.)
I go into the doctor pretty well, below:
>> I can't help but wonder if the 'Everyman' skills in a campaign shouldn't
>> depend on the background of the individual - namely, the social class they
>> come from, as bought as a Perk/Disad. Nobles (Perk:Nobility) and Peasants
>> (Phys.Lim.:Serf) should in theory have broadly different 'Everyman' skills,
>> should they not?
>
> Nope. At that point, they aren't held by "everyman". As the
>medieval English play, this applies to absolutely everyone, in theory.
No, it doesn't. Just most everyone. Learning disabled people don't have
them. PC aliens from another culture constantly take "no familiarity with
earth customs". Stroke victims lack most of these everyman skills. A
friend of mine does not have a driver's license because he doesn't feel he
possesses the typical late 20th century, everyman skill: PS: Driving
(according to your definition of the necessary skills.) I would place
Everyman skills for modern gaming at 25 years old, high school diploma with
an adequate paying trade. It would include everything you theoretically
learn in school, typical knowledge of local laws and customs, and a PS:
trade 11-. (I know the book suggests 8- but I figure at 25, the everyman
deserves an XP.)
>You'll have some that won't even take the baseline level, but that's
>because we allow for what the majority will have. In this case, there's
>not a whole lot that is going to go into the Medieval everyman. A
>language, possibly an AK, possibly a KS on local personages.
Okay, let's see me: Computer programming 12- (I have a master's degree),
PS: Computer programmer/analyst 11-, KS: Computing 11-, PS: musician 11-,
KS: song composition: 11-, KS: rpgs (20+ years) 12-, KS: comic books 8-,
KS: scifi/fantasy novels, movies, tv shows 11-, probably a few more I
failed my KS: knowledge of self 12- roll due to lack of extra time. Even
if this adds up to over 25 points, what about my disadvantages: phys: obese
(infreq, slight), psy: must prove others wrong (common, strong :-), phys:
Insomnia, phys: lacks everyman spelling (-1), etc, etc. Then, there are my
characteristics: a little extra BODY, a little less END, good CON, ave STR,
ave DEX, good INT, so-so EGO, better than I usually realize PRE, lowish COM.
Whenever people write themselves up they do not remember that most of the
skills they are really good at, are skills that they take extra time to
perform. My 12- in CompProg is sheet bragidoccio. I believe I am better
at it than most other programmers (who would have a 11-). Programming
takes time, by giving myself a 12-, I am saying I am 5 times faster than
someone else. That is more than likely false. But a 13- would be 25 times
better/faster than most trained programmers and that is just delusional.
(Difference in skills is based on the time chart, each level is 5 times
longer than the previous. To get a 11- skill to 14- requires 3 levels on
the time chart. If you start at 12-, you can do the skill (at 14-, safely)
5 times faster.)
>> The problem is that when you get to 'picky' about who has what skills,
>> almost _any_ human being needs 100+ points to be properly represented. Even
>> the stuff from your student work days would provide a half dozen PS's, if
>> only at the FAM level.
PS: Dead-end jobs worked through college, 8-. (1 point, stick it in the
Paid His Own Way Through College package deal. :-)
> Not really. Most have been forgotten already. However, the base
>person for the Everyman has definately _not_ gone to college. We're
>talking a High School education with a simple profession. Someone who has
>gone through a 4-year degree should be at least a 25 point character.
That's silly. Unless you have a Ph.D. (or many years of broad experience),
you do not have more than 3 points in a specific KS or PS. You may have
more than 3 points in a broad KS. A doctor (PS: General practician) does
not have to make a PS roll to figure out a perscription for a cold. He
automatically determines what is best for his patient. This is because
most of the symptoms he encounters are routine and give +3 to +5 on his
skill roll (BBB p18). When in doubt, he can take extra time. He might get
+1 to +3 because he is in his office (good environment). If he has KS:
Medicine, he gets a complimentary roll. Maybe he has KS: "patients in his
practice" at 8-. (How much does your doctor really know about you?) Maybe
<1% of the time he would need to roll a PS skill to diagnose one of his
patients.
He can perform first aid without a roll. In fact, any doctor with a 14- in
PS: general physician is near godlike when it comes to primary care: over
125 times better than the average doctor, who should only have an 11-.
>> After all, you can recognize the flags of your state, city and township,
>> right? Same thing; area knowledge. Knights applying for a 'new' coat of
arms
>
> Um, no. I can get the Federal, that's about it. I may have
>learned the others, but I've moved and stuff. At the same time, I
>definately have an 8- AK with Jacksonville, IL, an 8- AK with the Joliet
>IL area, and a 14- or 15- AK with the Channahon and Minooka, IL area. I
>probably also have an 8- with Chicago proper and an 8- with IL in general.
>Heck, as I can name and place all the states, most of the capitols, and
>many of the major cities, I probably have an 8- or 11- AK, The US and, as
>I was a geography wiz in my earlier days who could place basically any
>country, most with capitol, I probably have an AK 8-, The World. That
>said, the flags would get me on a lot of those. I don't have a KS in
>flags.
No, you probably don't have all of that. You can name 95% percent of the
streets in Channahom and Minooka? (And where they are in relation to each
other?) If I asked you how many houses were on such-and-such street, would
you know? Is there a short cut through back yards to get from Channon St
to North St? (I used yahoo maps, I really don't know what I'm talking about:
http://maps.yahoo.com/yahoo/yt.hm?CMD=MAP&FAM=yahoo&SEC=geo&MA=1&GC=X:-88.21
857|Y:41.43446|LT:41.43142|LN:-88.22377|LS:10000|c:Channahon|s:IL|d:602|p:US
A&IC=41.43446:-88.21857:10:&GAD3=Channahon%2c+IL&H=375&W=600&LV=1
)
You have AK: East Illonios 11-, and AK: home town 12- and those two give
you local knowledge of your area. They tell you where the Sears (or
Walmart) is, how to get to Chicago, the location of some excellent
restaurants. And, I would contend that those two skills are everyman
skills: AK: local geopgraphic region 11-, AK: town lived in 12-. Everyman
skills also give you US and world general geography. Not everyone has
Everyman skills, some people buy them back as disadvantages.
And, knowing capitals does not have anything to do with AK. AK is knowing
an area, what's there, who populates it, where the hospitals are, names of
streets or highways. Capitals do not cut it. Capitals of states and
cities is like KS: Geography 8-. You want it higher than that then name
some mountain peeks, a few rivers, a forest or two and a swamp in your
area, multiply appropriately as the area grows.
>> consulted with Heralds to insure that they did not conflict with other
>> crests (a serious no-no); there's no way the 'average' knight would have
the
>> knowledge to perform this kind of research - and that's primarily what KS:
>> Heraldry is, IMHO.
>
> Right. But I'd argue that should be PS: Herald and/or a SS:
>Heraldy. The KS would actually be KS: Crests and Coats of Arms.
And the KS would be assumed by PS: Herald. KS: Crests and Coats of Arms as
an actual skill would allow a herald to determine the meaning of a 500 year
old tapestry found and preserved in a lost area of the game world. It
would tell the herald why the king's brother's traditional coats of arms
traditionally carries a crimson snake in the lower quadrant. The PS:
Herald skill would just allow the herald to recognize the coats of arms as
the enemy army charged into battle.
Joe
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from pat10355@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: Pat10355 <Pat10355@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:27:01 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
I'm afraid that I just don't see why delineating a "complete cop" in Hero
System is a sign of the coming apocalypse.
Look, if you want to say everything necessary to practice a profession is
covered by a 2-point skill, go ahead. No one's stopping you.
But if someone else wants to know every skill a peace officer might reasonably
have, because it's a campaign *about* cops, because they're anal retentive,
whatever, then this is useful information.
If it's not useful to you, then don't use it.
PS The posts from non-peace officers lecturing real-life officers on what
skills they possess are very funny.
Patrick Sweeney
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:28:44 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Law& Order
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
What about the UCMJ and the Militay Police and it's various forms?
The DEA, and all the Govt. agencies?
How about "Future Law Organizations"?
Any real surprises in store?
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:28:46 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
At 09:03 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some "cardboard
hero" type counters in electronic format?
I can't speak for Hero but if there was enough call for them I think you
could count on somebody offering upa disk...
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:41:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
> It is very easy to build a cop at almost any point total. It all
> depends on what you think the cop deserves in the way of skills and what
> is covered by PS: Law Enforcement Agent.
And if I was still responding to the cops andpoint totals part of
the discussion, you would be right.
However, I was responding to Rat's assertion that a cop, or
anyone, when performing their job earns no XP. While I could see an
argument that this may be so for non-adventurous professions, the work of
a cop (fighting crime) is similar to that of a Hero (fighting Super
Crime). If the cop gets no XP for doing his job, then a Hero would get no
XP either.
Simple extrapolation of Rat's comment exposes it's incredible lack
of thought.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:48:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
> > superheroes, would get absolutely no XP, thus removing any need for XP.
> > Super Agents in a Superagent campaign would also only be doing their
> > "job", and would get nothing for it.
>
> Sorry, Tim, but street cops are *NOT* the heroes of the story. They do
> *NOT* get experience in the same fashion that PCs and major villains will.
> They do *NOT* need a huge (relatively) expenditure of points in various
> legal skills that will never be used.
And the major villians aren't either the Heroes of the story. Nor
are minor villians or minor NPC heroes. (Or followers, or DNPCs, or . . .
you get the point). However, it is not foolish to assume that any and all
would improve with time, based on the earning of XP. It doesn't take
someone sitting at a table playing them for them to earn XP.
So, therefore, an NPC hero team from the next city over would
develop just as the PC heroes do. As would their arch-nemisis villian
team.
PC Cops in a Police Hero game would obviously earn XP, I don't
expect you to debate that. However, their NPC rivals should improve and
mature just as they do. For that matter, everyone on the force will
improve with time.
XP is the provided method for gradual improvement based on
experience in "the field", whatever that may be. Therefore, it is prudent
to assume that XP is gainable by any and all in a world.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:50:47 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
This for the most part is me. I used my military backgound as a base and
did this write-up. There are several KS I might have been able to give
myself but I tried to stay at or near 100 pts.
Michael
Standard US Army Infantry Solider
13 STR 3
14 DEX 12
13 CON 6
10 BODY 0
13 INT 3
11 EGO 2
13 PRE 3
10 COM 0
5 PD 2
4 ED 1
3 SPD 6
6 REC 0
26 END 0
24 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 38
2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
3 PS: Military Speciality
2 KS: Hobby 11-
1 Paramedic 8-
3 Tactics 12-
1 Computers 8-
1 Orienteering 8-
1 Weapon Permit
1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
2 +1" Running 0
5 1 Levels: Small Arms,related group
44 PKG,"Soldier"
(7) WF,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket Launchers,
Man-Guided Missiles,Small Arms,Knives
(2) KS: Military 11-
(2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
(12) Commando Training
(3) Climbing 12-
(3) Stealth 12-
(3) Survival 11-
(1) TF,Parachuting
(3) Navigation 11-
(3) 1 Levels: w/3 related weapons (M16A2, M249 Saw, M9 9mm
Barett,tight group
(2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
(3) Rappeling 11>
Powers Cost: 66
Total Cost: 104
Base Points: 50
5 Subject to recall
5 Distinctive,"Military",easily concealable,minor
10 Watched,"The US Army",more powerful,non-combat influence,
harsh,appear 8-
15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-
10 Psych Lim,"Military Mind Set",common,moderate
5 Unluck,1D6
Disadvantages Total: 50
Experience Spent: 4
Total Points: 104
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:00:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Reply-To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
I'll get to the rest of your post later, for now I'll use the AK.
> No, you probably don't have all of that. You can name 95% percent of the
> streets in Channahom and Minooka? (And where they are in relation to each
> other?) If I asked you how many houses were on such-and-such street, would
> you know? Is there a short cut through back yards to get from Channon St
> to North St? (I used yahoo maps, I really don't know what I'm talking about:
Um, yes, I would know 95%. I delivered pizza there for 3 years
and that will definately give quite a KS roll. Channon to North? You
can cut through the yards, most aren't fenced. Past Willard (which is two
separate streets, the one the map shows on the other side of Tryon and the
one that is a straight line to the NW from it connecting Channon and
North.) It'd also be pretty easy to cut through the Library, the
ex-vacent lot that is now a clinic, or the shopping plaza. But those are
the easy parts of Channahon. The tough ones are out in the boonies that
actually aren't part of a city.
If I know that much about the towns, though, I'd estimate that the
local police know at least as much. That's a 14- or 15- AK, easy.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:10:15 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
A few nits:
-> 1 Orienteering 8-
-> (3) Climbing 12-
-> (1) TF,Parachuting
-> (3) Navigation 11-
-> (3) Rappeling 11>
1) It costs 1pt to be able to parachute, but 3pts to climb and ANOTHER 3pts
to slide down a rope? I'd let people with the climbing skill rappel for free.
2) After spending 3pts to be able to Navigate, you still need to spend another
point on Orienteering? Seems a bit much to me.
Maybe I should post a 100pt juggler:
3pts Ball Throwing
3pts Ball Catching
3pts Pin Throwing
1pt Familarity w/Flaming Pins
3pts Pin Catching...
Seriously though, it would interesting to see Rookie, Average, Skilled and
Awesome skillsets (say 10, 20, 40 and 60pts) for a variety of 'action' careers
(Journalist, Policeman, Soldier, Intelligence Agent, Private Investigator).
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo wnsc_mail.centraltx.net from ronald@centraltx.net server root@mail.centraltx.net ip 208.135.247.48
From: "Ron Abitz" <ronald@centraltx.net>
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:16:14 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
----------
> From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
>
> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
This is the only one I would strongly argue with since the "standard" (AKA
adverage) Infantry does not have any Security clearance. Enless uniyt
mission requrements dectate otherwise.
Ron Abitz
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp3.erols.com from robtwest@erols.com server @smtp3.erols.com ip 207.172.3.236
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:20:50 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
CC: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Kim Foster wrote:
>
>
> The biggest objetion I have to the 200+ pt cop (or any "realistic NPC) is
> that it does make PCs look incompotent. A hero who's a cop in his secret id
> is likely going to come out quite a bit "underskilled" along these lines.
>
> This is really going to stick out in low level "Dark Champions" games where
> investigation is spotlighted unless the PCs all resemble the Harbinger of
> Justice point totalwise....
Thank you, Kim, for elucidating my misgivings more lucidly than I
managed. As soon as L&O comes out, my PCs who have law enforcement
backgrounds are going to wave it in my face and demand ridiculous package
deals so that their characters are as effective as "Joe."
Mark, I respectfully express my opinion that it is harder to make the
fine judgments that occupy the middle ground between excruciatingly
detailed 200-pt normals and supremely abstracted normals who are nothing
more than a PS and two KS's. As such, I respectfully express my hope
that this area of play will not be glossed over.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:34:32 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
>> From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
>> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
>>
>
>> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
>
>This is the only one I would strongly argue with since the "standard" (AKA
>adverage) Infantry does not have any Security clearance. Enless uniyt
>mission requrements dectate otherwise.
Good point, that was a personal one I forgot to drop. Most all Officers and
Senior NCO would have this. Lot's of standard soliders would have a Secret
Clearance. At least 1 out of every 3 would.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:37:47 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell), champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
At 11:10 PM 4/13/98 -0700, Sam Bell wrote:
>
>A few nits:
>
>-> 1 Orienteering 8-
>-> (3) Climbing 12-
>-> (1) TF,Parachuting
>-> (3) Navigation 11-
>-> (3) Rappeling 11>
>
>1) It costs 1pt to be able to parachute, but 3pts to climb and ANOTHER 3pts
>to slide down a rope? I'd let people with the climbing skill rappel for free.
Rappeling out of a moving Blackhawk is a lot diffrent from climbing down a hill.
Maybe it should be a Fam. instead. That's how Parachuting works, brakefall
is the real skill you just need the TF.
>2) After spending 3pts to be able to Navigate, you still need to spend another
>point on Orienteering? Seems a bit much to me.
I took classes in both Land Nav as well as Orienteering. Orienteering would
be a complimentary skill to Navigation. So I guess you could drop it and
let Nav cover both.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from pat10355@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: Pat10355 <Pat10355@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:51:06 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Joe Reporter
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
OK, as a newspaper copy editor and former reporter, I'll take a crack at Joe
Reporter.
This is intended to represent an average reporter at a metro daily. TV and
radio folks will be different, as will veteran or highly experienced
reporters.
10 STR 0
10 DEX 0
10 CON 0
12 INT 2
11 EGO 2
13 PRE 3
10 COM 0
2 PD 0
2 ED 0
2 SPD 0
4 REC 0
20 END 0
20 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 7
3 Conversation12-
3 Persuasion 12-
3 Choose One: Bureaucratics 12-, High Society 12-, Language (fluent
w/accent), Streetwise 12-, Trading 12-
1 Perk: Press Pass
2 PS: Reporter 11-
2 CK: City 11-
2 AK: County or Region 11-
4 KS: Beats (Choose 2: Local Government, State Government, Federal
Government, Public Safety, Courts, Health, Business, Lifestyles,
Entertainment, Science & Technology, Education, Transportation, Military,
International Affairs, Politics, Religion 11-)
2 KS: Own Newspaper 11-
2 KS: Current Events 11-
1 KS: Photography 8-
1 KS: Local Newspapers & Reporters 8-
1 KS: First Amendment & Open Meetings Laws 8-
1 KS: Journalism History 8-
5 Contacts: Other Journalists 8-
10 Contacts: Sources 8-
Skills Cost: 43 pts.
Total Cost: 50 pts.
Disadvantages
Psych Lim:
10 Code of ethics (common, moderate)
10 Curious (common, moderate)
Rivalry:
5 Competitors (professional)
Base Points: 25 +
Disads: 25 =
Total 50
Other Power Levels:
At a bare minimum, I'd say PS: Reporter 11-, Conversation and Persuasion would
be appropriate. That would be lumping everything else under the PS.
For a higher power level, it's really easy to add skills, particularly
background ones like KS and CK. A foreign correspondent might have the Well-
Traveled enhancer along with a good selection of major world cities, while a
highly experienced business reporter might have KS slots for several of the
top corporations she covers, for example.
A couple of notes on my reasoning:
Characteristics are pretty flexible -- reporters have to be fairly strong-
willed and self-confident, but other than that it varies widely. Some are in
terrible physical shape, and others run marathons for fun.
Conversation and Persuasion are pretty much what the job is all about. The
other skills are things you pick up on the beat. Many reporters learn a second
language, in California often Spanish, to do a better job in a diverse U.S.
There are no secrets in a newsroom, and reporters change jobs so often that
after a few years you know someone at almost any paper. (Off the top of my
head, I have former co-workers in Stockton, Fresno, Washington state, New York
City, Idaho, Florida and Georgia. That's about 10 seconds worth of thought --
if I really worked on it, I could probably name another half-dozen states)
Many reporters start their careers at small papers too cheap to hire a full-
time photog, so you learn some camera-work. Most are familiar with laws
pertaining to the job -- where you can and can't go legally, why the school
board can't hold a secret meeting, etc. And anyone with a journalism degree
knows something about journalism history.
You'd be a pretty lame reporter with no sources, but most of your contacts
aren't going to stick their necks out for you. That's why you need Persuasion.
:)
If you're not curious, you're not a reporter. If you don't care whether or not
a rival paper scoops you, you're not a reporter.
Yes, reporters do follow a code of ethics. This covers things like not paying
for interviews, not accepting gifts from sources, writing accurately and
fairly, and avoiding conflicts of interest -- such as covering a business you
own stock in.
Before people start in on ethics or lack thereof in the news biz, let me
mention that in 12 years in the field I've seen one person flat-out fired for
plagiarism and at least a half-dozen let go for persistent accuracy problems.
There are exceptions, but most papers, and most reporters, do take this stuff
seriously.
Patrick Sweeney
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-10.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.39
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:28:02 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Watchmen
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
If you are looking for a REALLY in depth look at the graphic novel itself
(which is worth a lot more than some stats for the characters) then do a
web search for "The Annotated Watchmen" (sorry - forgotten the URL)
This epic piece of work disects the novel panel by panel and keys you in
on all the brilliant background play that is going on throughout the
novel.
Sharky Dangerthorn wrote:
> Wow! Great website! Thanks!
>
> ---Legionair <Legionair@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't remember who was looking for the Watchmen information, but I
> found a
> > pretty in-depth site on the subject...
> >
> > http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/jbfliege/watchmen.html
> >
> > It has a full write up of the additional information that was in the
> Mayfair
> > DC Heroes supplement as well.
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
> ==
> Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
> a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
> Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
>
> Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
> Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-10.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.39
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:36:48 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
qts wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> >swing lines.
> >
> >Would one use Swinging?
> >Stretching?
> >I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
> >to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>
> How about Stretching or Flight? I'd go for the former, having used it
> for magic grappling hooks.
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Flight works well for the Batman style of line (or the Spiderman - I can't
believe that this guy is getting overlooking in the swinging line stakes!)
with limitations such as "Only in urban environment" or "Requires purchase".
The urban one is about -1/2 (if you take him out into the desert he's in
trouble) but the "purchase" thing is only really worth about -1/4 as players
will always find something to attach a line to...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-10.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.39
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:42:29 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
CC: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 12:18 AM 4/13/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> >swing lines.
> >
> >Would one use Swinging?
> >Stretching?
> >I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
> >to create a climbing line with that exact power.
> >
> >Suggestions?
>
> For my own part, I'd recommend a limited form of Flight. It's also
> possible to build it with limited Stretching as well, but I'd probably lean
> toward Flight.
>
> My Stretching model:
>
> 10" Stretching, Grabs & Pulls Only (-1), Range Penalties (-1/2), OAF (14)
>
> My Flight model:
>
> 10" Flight, Requires Attack Roll (-1/2), Fragile Climbing Line (-1/2),
> Vertical Only (-1), OAF (5)
>
> The Flight model is not only cheaper, but arguably closer to the actual
> effect of what happens.
> (Aside to Dave Mattingly: take these down for me, would ya?)
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
The only thing I would disagree with here is the "upwards only"
limitation. If the player is getting -1 for that I would enforce it
pretty harshly. If you take a look at Batman the Animated Series (a
great source for Bat swinging examples) he usually moves up and in a
direction at quite some speed which is at odds with your flight model.
How about decreasing it to -1/2 and offering a little more flexibility
in movement?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-10.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.39
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:48:58 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Plus printed versions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
Are the electronic books available in HTML format?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-10.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.39
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:55:07 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
CC: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu&>
"Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >> At 01:24 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >> >Favorite Author/Favorite Book:
> >> > Just about anything on her hero, Joan of Arc.
> >> >
Pity she doesn't have a background in the police or other law
enforcement. She'd be crying to be called Stakeout.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Joe X on 25 points
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:42:59 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here are some of the packages I describe at
http://www.haymaker.org/haym16.html. Each package comes with a rank of
Great, Good, and Fair, costing 25, 15, and 5 points respectively.
Remember that complementary skills, extra time, familiarity of subject,
good materials, etc. can add to rolls. In almost all cases, skills were
not bought above 3 points.
Programmer
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 3 Programming
3 3 1 Electronics
3 3 1 System Operation
2 2 1 AK: Internet
6 3 Speed Reading and/or Lightning Calculator
2 2 Computer Science
3 1 Security Systems
3 1 Cryptography
2 1 Math
2 Geek Contacts
-4 Programmer Package
Programmers can get computers to do what they want them to do, whether
it be creating a software package, finding what they want in a database
or on the internet, or hacking into a secure network.
Some programmers can apply their computer and math expertise to other
situations.
Serious internet buffs often have friends all over the world, that they
have never actually seen nor spoken to.
Scientist
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 1 Electronics
3 3 1 Programming
1 1 1 Chemistry
1 1 1 Physics
1 1 1 Biology
1 1 1 Math
3 3 Scientist
3 1 Gadgeteering
3 1 Mechanics
3 1 System Operation
3 1 Inventor
1 1 Engineering
1 Robotics
1 Astronomy
1 Aeronautics
-4 Scientist Package
Scientists discover new aspects about ourselves and about the world
around us. Whether they're theoretical or practical or a combination,
they tend to have a lot of ideas brewing at once.
With a more diverse scientific background, they can discover even more,
so they tend towards strong general knowledge with one or two areas of
specialization.
Hours in the lab might seem like drudgery to the rest of us, but it's
the highlight of a scientist's day.
Paramedic
25 15 5 Skills
5 3 3 Paramedic
2 2 1 CK: City
2 2 1 P: Paramedic
1 1 1 Paramedic's License
3 3 * Combat Driving
2 2 Pharmacology
2 2 Contact: Doctor
3 1 Medicine
1 1 Bureaucratics
3 Forensics
3 Mechanics
3 Bump of Direction
1 Criminology
1 Systems Operation
-4 Paramedic Package
Paramedics keep people alive long enough to get them to proper medical
care. Skilled in both first aid and in driving, they can find their way
around the city's side streets and around a patient's innards equally
well.
While a doctor and the proper equipment and medicine are needed for
difficult diagnoses or operations, a paramedic can make sure you get
there safely.
Doctor
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 3 Paramedic
3 3 1 P: Doctor
2 2 1 K: Medicine
1 1 1 Doctor's License
3 * * Conversation
3 3 Forensics
2 3 K: Specialty
1 1 Pharmacology
1 1 Biology
1 1 Chemistry
3 Scholar
3 Scientist
1 K: Experimental Procedures
1 Bureaucratics
1 Programming
-4 Doctor Package
Doctors save lives and preserve our health.
Newsroom Reporter
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 2 K: Journalism
3 3 1 Streetwise
3 2 1 K: News
2 1 1 P: Reporter
1 1 1 Press Pass
3 3 * Deduction
3 3 * Conversation
3 * * Concealment
3 * * Stealth
2 1 CK: City
1 1 Bureaucratics
1 Programming
1 Criminology
-4 Newsroom Reporter Package
Newsroom reporters are generally given stories to research by their
editor, and do most of their work at a desk.
Investigative Reporter
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 1 Streetwise
3 3 1 Acting
1 1 1 P: Reporter
1 1 1 K: Journalism
1 1 1 Press Pass
1 1 1 CK: City
3 3 * Disguise
3 3 * Shadowing
3 3 * Conversation
3 * * Deduction
3 * * Concealment
3 * * Stealth
1 Criminology
-4 Investigative Reporter Package
An investigative reporter goes undercover in the real world looking to
expose the corruption they find.
Lawyer
25 15 5 Skills
3 3 2 P: Lawyer
3 3 1 K: Law
3 3 1 Interrogation
2 2 1 K: Court
1 1 1 Lawyer's Certificate
3 * * Conversation
3 * * Persuasion
3 3 Streetwise
3 3 Criminology
3 Oratory
1 Bribery
1 Bureaucratics
-4 Lawyer Package
Lawyers put criminals in prison and clear the names of good men.
Detective
25 15 5 Skills
2 2 2 Concealed Weapon Permit
3 3 1 Streetwise
3 1 1 Criminology
3 1 1 Bugging
1 1 1 Detective License
3 3 * Deduction
3 3 * Conversation
3 * * Stealth
3 1 Bribery
3 1 Gambling
2 1 WF: Pistols / Small Arms
2 1 CK: City
-4 Detective Package
Detectives find people. Cheating husbands, hiding felons, unidentified
killers, long-lost brothers, and even missing dogs can all be found if
you know where to look, and detectives do know where, or else they'll
find out.
Finding people who don't want to be found can be dangerous work at
times, which is why many detectives carry a weapon.
Piecing together various clues into a coherent picture is the
detective's purview. So is dealing with people who live on the underside
of society's belly.
Patrol Policeman
25 15 5 Skills
2 2 2 Police Powers
2 2 2 Concealed Weapons Permit
3 2 1 K: Law Enforcement
2 2 1 K: Specialty
3 * * Combat Driving
3 * * Paramedic
3 3 Streetwise
3 3 Criminology
3 1 Bureaucratics
2 1 CK: City
1 1 Forensics
1 Mechanics
1 Electronics
1 Systems Operation
-4 Patrol Policeman Package
Patrol policemen walk (or drive or bike) a beat. Sometimes a particular
beat, sometimes the route varies.
Undercover Policeman
25 15 5 Skills
2 2 2 Police Powers
2 2 2 Concealed Weapons Permit
3 2 1 K: Law Enforcement
2 2 1 K: Specialty
3 * * Disguise
3 3 Streetwise
3 3 Criminology
3 1 Bureaucratics
2 1 CK: City
1 1 Forensics
3 Acting
2 Contact
1 Lockpicking
-4 Undercover Policeman Package
Undercover policemen, unlike beat officers, infiltrate specific groups
of criminals to try to catch the bad guys in the act.
Lab Tech Policeman
25 15 5 Skills
2 2 2 Police Powers
2 2 2 Concealed Weapons Permit
3 2 1 K: Law Enforcement
2 2 1 K: Specialty
3 3 Streetwise
3 3 Criminology
3 1 Bureaucratics
2 1 CK: City
1 1 Forensics
3 Bugging
3 Security Systems
1 Lockpicking
1 Electronics
1 Programming
-4 Lab Tech Policeman Package
Lab tech policemen are the scientists of the force. They analyze hair
follicles, soil samples, etc. to prove the bad guys did it.
Soldier
25 15 5 Skills
2 2 2 WF: Small Arms
3 3 1 Tactics
3 2 1 K: Military
2 1 1 P: Soldier
1 1 1 WF: Knives
3 3 * Paramedic
3 3 * Combat Driving
3 3 Survival
3 1 Breakfall
3 1 Parachuting
1 1 WF: Grenades
1 Acrobat
1 Demolitions
-4 Soldier Package
Soldiers are the fighting force of the world. They're at home on the
battlefield and can kick your butt good.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:50:22 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
At 09:20 PM 4/13/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< That was a damn incredible list, making me absolutely convinced that I
must
>pick up the book when it is released. >>
>
> Thanks, Tim. ;)
>
><< Many other jobs could recive this sort of fleshing out, especially
>military. >>
>
> Well, now that you mention it, we are covering Military Police in the book
>as well... ;)
I'm with Tim on both comments -- that I will definitely buy this book,
and that I'd like to see a book on the Military (general military)
following this one at some point (even more than the book on attorneys that
I suggested earlier in private mail).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:23:01 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Bouncing it off of my military experience...
Basically okay, except:
The "Standard" Infantry Soldier doesn't have a TS, isn't airborne or air
assault, is not an FO, doesn't have a weapon's permit, and doesn't know much
about computers unless he learned it elsewhere. You may want to throw hand
grenades in there. I think you are seriously overstating hand-to-hand
training by giving a "Commando" martial art. Body should be moved up a
notch or two as well.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Nunn [SMTP:mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 1:51 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> This for the most part is me. I used my military backgound as a base and
> did this write-up. There are several KS I might have been able to give
> myself but I tried to stay at or near 100 pts.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
>
> 13 STR 3
> 14 DEX 12
> 13 CON 6
> 10 BODY 0
> 13 INT 3
> 11 EGO 2
> 13 PRE 3
> 10 COM 0
> 5 PD 2
> 4 ED 1
> 3 SPD 6
> 6 REC 0
> 26 END 0
> 24 STUN 0
> Characteristics Cost: 38
>
> 2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
> 3 PS: Military Speciality
> 2 KS: Hobby 11-
> 1 Paramedic 8-
> 3 Tactics 12-
> 1 Computers 8-
> 1 Orienteering 8-
> 1 Weapon Permit
> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
> 2 +1" Running 0
> 5 1 Levels: Small Arms,related group
> 44 PKG,"Soldier"
> (7) WF,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket Launchers,
> Man-Guided Missiles,Small Arms,Knives
> (2) KS: Military 11-
> (2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
> (12) Commando Training
> (3) Climbing 12-
> (3) Stealth 12-
> (3) Survival 11-
> (1) TF,Parachuting
> (3) Navigation 11-
> (3) 1 Levels: w/3 related weapons (M16A2, M249 Saw, M9 9mm
> Barett,tight group
> (2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
> (3) Rappeling 11>
>
> Powers Cost: 66
> Total Cost: 104
>
> Base Points: 50
> 5 Subject to recall
> 5 Distinctive,"Military",easily concealable,minor
> 10 Watched,"The US Army",more powerful,non-combat influence,
> harsh,appear 8-
> 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-
> 10 Psych Lim,"Military Mind Set",common,moderate
> 5 Unluck,1D6
>
> Disadvantages Total: 50
> Experience Spent: 4
> Total Points: 104
> Rising Force Publications
> Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web
> site...
> http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
>
> "You have never lived until you have almost died.
> And for those who fight for it,
> life has a flavor the protected never know"
> - anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
To: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net (Michael Nunn)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
> >> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
> >
> >> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
> >
> >This is the only one I would strongly argue with since the "standard" (AKA
> >adverage) Infantry does not have any Security clearance. Enless uniyt
> >mission requrements dectate otherwise.
>
> Good point, that was a personal one I forgot to drop. Most all Officers and
> Senior NCO would have this. Lot's of standard soliders would have a Secret
> Clearance. At least 1 out of every 3 would.
>
Everyone in the Air Force has a 'Secret level' security clearance.
This alows you to work with classified information and materials of up to
a certain level (which I no longer remember how it was done) on a need to
know basis. After that was Top Secret and one other. 1 out of 10 AF people
would have the Top Secret; as the AF deals with high tech and 'information
management' quite a lot. Quite a few of my buddies when I was in had the Top
Secret, and even a few of them had the one after it. Such people where very
easy to come by.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mars.superlink.net from why@saturn.superlink.net server root@mars.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.9
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Remember, going into this I know that we are not going to agree.
> > No, you probably don't have all of that. You can name 95% percent of the
> > streets in Channahom and Minooka? (And where they are in relation to each
> > other?) If I asked you how many houses were on such-and-such street, would
> > you know? Is there a short cut through back yards to get from Channon St
> > to North St? (I used yahoo maps, I really don't know what I'm talking about:
>
> Um, yes, I would know 95%. I delivered pizza there for 3 years
> and that will definately give quite a KS roll. Channon to North? You
> can cut through the yards, most aren't fenced. Past Willard (which is two
> separate streets, the one the map shows on the other side of Tryon and the
> one that is a straight line to the NW from it connecting Channon and
> North.) It'd also be pretty easy to cut through the Library, the
> ex-vacent lot that is now a clinic, or the shopping plaza. But those are
> the easy parts of Channahon. The tough ones are out in the boonies that
> actually aren't part of a city.
You're original description of yourself did not include PS: Pizza
delivery. Otherwise I would not have doubted the AK 14-. However, I am
sure that most pizza deliverymen would not have AK 14-, maybe 12- or 13-.
The average person does not keep track of which houses in their pizza
delivery area are fenced.
> If I know that much about the towns, though, I'd estimate that the
> local police know at least as much. That's a 14- or 15- AK, easy.
For the police, a beat officer/patrolman might have a 12- or 13- but I
don't accept the 14-. That would be a veteran who has spent a lot of time
in the town.
I think the problem is that I am stingy with XPs because I see them as
being very valuable. If 5 XP is an extra die of damage, then 5 points of
skill is a whole other level of experience. I wouldn't give John Williams
more than PS: Composor, 14- and PS: Conductor, 14-. Any higher level
would be absurd to me. Normals should earn 2-3 XPs per year, AT MOST,
IMHO. You might argue the police, fireman, military personnel, ems, etc
should earn more, but I would not more than double or triple that 2-3/year
rate.
Joe
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:03:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Whiplash & 0 END Density Increase & Magnetic Effects
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: Ravanos <Ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
Whiplash is an villian with an amazing ammount of skill with her
whip.
The only problem is, I'm not sure how to represent this...
I essentially want her to be able to do all sorts of 'whip
tricks.'
I've been considering using a limited form of stretching, but that
wouldn't allow me to "wrap 'em up" and leave them there... would it?
Other constructs I've been thinking about include a limited
entangle, a limited TK, HA, HKA, and swinging. Any other powers that you
can think of?
I was also making a Brick with 0 END Stregnth and 2 levels of
Density Increase 0 END, Persistant, Always On. Is the STR that comes
from DI also 0 END since DI was bought 0 END?
Mr. Metal is a robot made of space age ceramaics and plastics, but
his skeleton is metal. While he wouldn't take additional BODY or STUN
from magnetic attacks, I was thinking about giving him X2 effect from any
Magnetic attack.
I've often seen Magnetism modeled as a limited form of TK. Would
a TK that could lift the equivalent of a 20 STR now be able to lift him as
if it was a 25 STR TK? Or 40?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: The Watchmen
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:15:08 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
That's what this is...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Lynch [SMTP:chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 7:28 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: The Watchmen
>
> If you are looking for a REALLY in depth look at the graphic novel itself
> (which is worth a lot more than some stats for the characters) then do a
> web search for "The Annotated Watchmen" (sorry - forgotten the URL)
> This epic piece of work disects the novel panel by panel and keys you in
> on all the brilliant background play that is going on throughout the
> novel.
>
> Sharky Dangerthorn wrote:
>
> > Wow! Great website! Thanks!
> >
> > ---Legionair <Legionair@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't remember who was looking for the Watchmen information, but I
> > found a
> > > pretty in-depth site on the subject...
> > >
> > > http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/jbfliege/watchmen.html
> > >
> > > It has a full write up of the additional information that was in the
> > Mayfair
> > > DC Heroes supplement as well.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> >
> > ==
> > Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
> > a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
> > Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
> >
> > Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
> > Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&> mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:32:09 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Just a little clarification of classification...
Classification works like this: Confidential(C), Secret(S), Top Secret(TS).
There is nothing "after that." If something needs to be even further
restricted, we go into Special Compartmented Information(SCI) access. Thus,
your friend may have had a TS w/SCI access. SCI has numerous
sub-compartmentalizations for restriction by category, and no one (well,
okay, a few people) has access to all compartments. However, having a
clearance of a specific level doesn't really mean anything, except the
periodic annoyance of undergoing another NAC/BI/SBI. "Need to Know" is the
other factor. If you don't need to know, it doesn't matter what your
clearance level/access is.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Wong [SMTP:rook@shell.infinex.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 9:43 AM
> To: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
> Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> > >> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
> > >
> > >> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
> > >
> > >This is the only one I would strongly argue with since the "standard"
> (AKA
> > >adverage) Infantry does not have any Security clearance. Enless uniyt
> > >mission requrements dectate otherwise.
> >
> > Good point, that was a personal one I forgot to drop. Most all Officers
> and
> > Senior NCO would have this. Lot's of standard soliders would have a
> Secret
> > Clearance. At least 1 out of every 3 would.
> >
> Everyone in the Air Force has a 'Secret level' security clearance.
> This alows you to work with classified information and materials of up to
> a certain level (which I no longer remember how it was done) on a need to
> know basis. After that was Top Secret and one other. 1 out of 10 AF people
> would have the Top Secret; as the AF deals with high tech and 'information
> management' quite a lot. Quite a few of my buddies when I was in had the
> Top
> Secret, and even a few of them had the one after it. Such people where
> very
> easy to come by.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:42:34 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:42 PM 4/14/1998 +0100, Chris Lynch wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> At 12:18 AM 4/13/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>> >swing lines.
>>
>> 10" Flight, Requires Attack Roll (-1/2), Fragile Climbing Line (-1/2),
>> Vertical Only (-1), OAF (5)
>
>The only thing I would disagree with here is the "upwards only"
>limitation. If the player is getting -1 for that I would enforce it
>pretty harshly. If you take a look at Batman the Animated Series (a
>great source for Bat swinging examples) he usually moves up and in a
>direction at quite some speed which is at odds with your flight model.
>How about decreasing it to -1/2 and offering a little more flexibility
>in movement?
Sounds reasonable to me.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-5.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.135
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:19:30 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA22430
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some
"cardboard
hero" type counters in electronic format?<<
Lots of people (myself included) are asking for more of those cardboard
"miniatures". Hero or Gold Rush, are you taking notes? :-) My personal
preference would be to have only silhouettes on these miniatures (just like
the character sheets), so we could draw our own heroes/villains onto them.
Sounds like an inexpensive project that is highly desired.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:22:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> You're original description of yourself did not include PS: Pizza
> delivery. Otherwise I would not have doubted the AK 14-. However, I am
Well, I was only giving my AK at the time. But it's been a couple
of years since I worked pizza. Still, I'd say it's a profession that
doesn't at all need a PS. If you want to give it one, call it PS: Food
Worker, 11- (I delivered, made pizza, managed, did paperwork, cleaned,
prepped, etc. I've also worked a Fast Food/Ice Cream Joint. That's
enough for the 11-.)
> sure that most pizza deliverymen would not have AK 14-, maybe 12- or 13-.
> The average person does not keep track of which houses in their pizza
> delivery area are fenced.
True. But with my much better than average memory, I'm good at
remembering what is where. Plus, I rode my bike around the area a lot
when I was younger. 14- or 15- seems reasonable for me personally, 11-
to 13- for most pizza drivers. Give beginners a 8-.
> > If I know that much about the towns, though, I'd estimate that the
> > local police know at least as much. That's a 14- or 15- AK, easy.
>
> For the police, a beat officer/patrolman might have a 12- or 13- but I
> don't accept the 14-. That would be a veteran who has spent a lot of time
> in the town.
I don't buy it. I'm positive that they knew more about the town
then I did, and that's saying a lot. Noted, it is a small (couple) of
towns. Knowing everything about them is quite easy.
> I think the problem is that I am stingy with XPs because I see them as
> being very valuable. If 5 XP is an extra die of damage, then 5 points of
> skill is a whole other level of experience. I wouldn't give John Williams
> more than PS: Composor, 14- and PS: Conductor, 14-. Any higher level
> would be absurd to me.
I'll kick myself, but, who's John Williams? If a famous conductor
at the international level, you would be looking at more the 18- level
then the 14- level.
> Normals should earn 2-3 XPs per year, AT MOST,
> IMHO. You might argue the police, fireman, military personnel, ems, etc
> should earn more, but I would not more than double or triple that 2-3/year
> rate.
Easily more than double or triple. The thing about XPs are that
most end up being earmarked into contacts, favors, KSs, AKs, PSs, etc.
They aren't freely spendable. Most of a Police Officers would be this
way, with perhaps some improvements to highly-used skills: Psychology,
Weapon Usage, etc.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:31:24 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: GM's R US
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Seems to me there is a lot of talk about what exactly a
Proffesional Skill covers and what it doesn't cover so I am including my
own House rules here for you to flame on.
If there are no other applicable skills to the Proffesion, such
as Pro Football player, then the
PS: Football Player gives the player:
a) the ability to play Football,
b) the ability to know the rules of Football,
c) the ability to know the little things a football star would
know like other players, agents, rules of the league, etc.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:34:54 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: GM's R US
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Left some off of the last message...hit send a little to quick.
My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional
skill has another applicable skill than the player must have that skill.
For example:
Player purchases PS: Computer Programmer. In this case the PS does
NOT help the player perform the skill, for that they need Computer
Programing. However, the skill does help the player know where to look
for jobs, the names of other computer programmers, and other such
trivialities.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:47:57 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: GM's R US
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I was wondering how other peoople handle equipment and the
points spent for it.
For me it depends on the type of campaign that I am
Gamemastering. If the campaign is a superheroic game then I feel
compelled to make up the equipment as a character going through all the
list of it's powers, advantages, and disadvantages. This way if a
Villian or Hero acquires the item I now how much it is relatively worth.
However, for more Heroic and low point level campaigns I don't
worry about the cost of equipement as much. If the character picks up a
gun, I just say "fine you have the gun" and it does whatever the gun
does.
What brings this up is the fact that I was looking through a
copy of the never published Star Hero 2nd edition and they had listed in
it how much it would cost to give a ship of certain sizes artificial
gravity. The question is, outside of a Supers campaign why would this
matter? Am I wrong in thinking that it would be okay and not unbalancing
to just say "fine your ship has artifical gravity"?
I know that as GM I can make what ever rule that I want, and
I'll do that anyway, but how do other GM's out there do it.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
X-Sender: nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:30:18 -0400
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:47 AM 4/14/98 -0500, bobby farris wrote:
> What brings this up is the fact that I was looking through a
>copy of the never published Star Hero 2nd edition and they had listed in
>it how much it would cost to give a ship of certain sizes artificial
>gravity. The question is, outside of a Supers campaign why would this
>matter? Am I wrong in thinking that it would be okay and not unbalancing
>to just say "fine your ship has artifical gravity"?
I haven't seen the proto-2nd edition, but the 1st edition Star Hero had a
system for calculating monetary cost based on the points in an item. It
also based the _size_ of a piece of technology on the active points, which
I thought was quite inspired - it gave a game mechanics reason why it's
easier to build an FTL cruiser than an FTL fighter. (This could be
overridden by the Miniaturization advantage, which was pretty cool too.)
Another reason to build equipment in rules mechanics is to deal with
Drains, Suppresses, etc. - valid concerns for most SF games. (And for
Fantasy Games with magical counterspells, etc.)
For most heroic games, though, I fudge most of the equipment like you do.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-1.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-1.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.131
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:30:53 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: More supplement reviews
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id MAA25332
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here's a third list of supplements I'd appreciate getting reviews/opinions
on. The twist here is that I already own some of these, but maybe have a
problem with them and want to see how they are viewed by the overall
audience.
* Challenges for Champions
* Invaders from Below
* The Olympians
* Champions Presents #1 and #2
* Pyramid in the Sky
* Watchers of the Dragon
I'm also curious about this "Hero Games Deluxe 3-ring Binder" that is for
sale on the Hero Games web page. Does the cover match the 4E hardbound
book? How big is the binder? Our hardbound book fell apart not long after
we bought it, so we put all the pages into plastic sleeves and put those
into a 3-ring binder. We have a really thick binder which holds the first
two sections, but we had to put the Champions sourcebook into a separate
binder...those plastic sleeves greatly increased the thickness of the 4E
hardbound book. I would buy a copy of Champions Deluxe since the binder is
a headache compared to a normal book, but since 5E is on the way, I'll wait
on it. In the meantime, it might be nice to have 4E in a "pretty" binder
rather than the plain gray one it's in now...$6 isn't too much to tack onto
a larger order.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-3.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-3.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.133
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:40:51 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Corporations
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id MAA25684
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> For myself, I wouldn't. The only reason for that, though, is that I
don't (yet) own any of the C:NM stuff. Once I've bought all the C:NM
books, though (which I fully do intend to do), I could give you a
comparison.<
Well, the basic gist of the "60 pages about 30 things" section of the Bay
City book is that they spend one page talking about a location, and a
second page talking about a character associated with that location. I'm
assuming that Corporations goes into a lot more detail than can be handled
in two pages, though. Corporations is on my list of books to get, but it's
not top priority. The ones at the top so far are Atlantis, Allies, and
Enemies Assemble.
Just in a general sense and without ranking them or anything (unless you
want to take the time to do so), what would you say are the best three to
five 4E Champions supplements? Worst three to five?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:26 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
as well, or should. As an example, here's my estimate of my own stats:
STR:8
DEX:9
CON:9
INT:15 (Yes, that's what I test at. Scary, ain't it?)
EGO:11/20 (+9 EGO, limit:Only via the net, -2)
PRE:10/20 (+10 PRE, limit as above, -2)
COM:8
Figure figured stats as normal, except +5 END, to represent the fact I walk
a lot and can keep plugging away longer than you'd expect given the rest of
my physical condition.
Skills:
KS:Geek stuff, 15-
PS:Programmer, 12-
AK:San Francisco, 8-, NYC,11-
PS:Writer, 11-
WF:Handguns
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-8.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-8.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.138
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:59:20 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Which published villains do you use?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA26507
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
Inc. was also a big player.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:14:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Well, I'm not too sure.
> If there are no other applicable skills to the Proffesion, such
> as Pro Football player, then the
> PS: Football Player gives the player:
> a) the ability to play Football,
I'd call this more of a new skill: Football. Dex-based.
> b) the ability to know the rules of Football,
> c) the ability to know the little things a football star would
> know like other players, agents, rules of the league, etc.
Yeah. Pretty much. This would be handling the basic aspects of
being a player of the game. The Dex-Based skill would be for actually
physically performing your portion of the game. Add a WF: Thrown Objects
for Quarterbacks. Many would also have a KS: Current and Past Players;
KS: Sports Reporters and the like. It's easy to branch out from a basic
two skills.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:18:46 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: Redbow Antiques
To: "Don S." <dschniepp@ldd.net>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Adventure Idea
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Okay, on the 12 noon news I hear a report that the military
loaded some napalm on a train to take it to be destroyed. Well, the
company that was going to destroy it backed out of the deal and now they
are not sure where the train is. They think it is somewhere in the New
Mexico area.
Is this a GM's plot or what?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:23:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> ...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
> 11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
Yeah. And we're talking, for the "average man", a non-college
educated individual. College, as I've argued, both adds skills and
indicates a sense of being "above average" enough for more points.
> Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
Disagreed.
> Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
> of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
> as well, or should. As an example, here's my estimate of my own stats:
I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
by skill rolls, it should probably be looked at as extending easily to 30
for normals, considering that the age lim pushes it close to this. This
allows for much more significance to INT scores. I'd say Genius level and
above would have a 20+.
> STR:8
Hmmm. How are you judging STR? If by bench press, this may be
OK, may be too high. If, however, by dead lift or some other such method,
you might want to up this.
> DEX:9
You're a little less skilled than average?
> CON:9
Hmmm. Based on your extra End argument, you may want to up this.
> INT:15 (Yes, that's what I test at. Scary, ain't it?)
See above. This would work out to a 20-23, probably, in an
expanded INT.
> EGO:11/20 (+9 EGO, limit:Only via the net, -2)
Eh? Explain.
> PRE:10/20 (+10 PRE, limit as above, -2)
See above.
> COM:8
Sure.
> Figure figured stats as normal, except +5 END, to represent the fact I walk
> a lot and can keep plugging away longer than you'd expect given the rest of
> my physical condition.
See above.
> KS:Geek stuff, 15-
This would qualify, to me, as a "useless skill" that won't cost
you any points.
> PS:Programmer, 12-
Fine. Where's the Computer Programing skill to go with it.
> AK:San Francisco, 8-, NYC,11-
Well, NYC is big enough that most specific questions would come
with a negative modifier, so this is pretty good.
> PS:Writer, 11-
A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
something published, but not write it.
> WF:Handguns
Maybe a WF:Knives, WF:Thrown, or something similar you've
overlooked?
Whatabout college courses. Most would be useless skills, but some
may provide useful ones at the 8- level. Sports? These would be KS
and/or PS.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
To: DBStallard@compuserve.com (David B Stallard)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
None and all.
That is, when I need quick stats I pull out an enemies book and open to the
first page with a picture that looks like the guy has the powers I want.
But none of the villians in the books get used as is.
I am using a set of V&V published villians as is right now, converted to Hero;
but I'll make em unique enough before the combat starts up anyway.
If a one time villian becomes a regular, he'll get a paragraph like
write up which will expand out as time goes on and he/she becomes more and more
important. So far only one villian has 'grown out' in this way. A minor
super strength thug who's punch turned people to stone, named 'Stone' of
course. :) He's gotten to his 'second appearance' stage and the players suspect
he'll become a regular. So naturally I'll find a use for him somewhere and let
him grow from there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hermes.ldd.net from redbf@ldd.net server @hermes.ldd.net ip 209.16.220.10
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:28:54 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Reply-To: redbf@ldd.net
Organization: Redbow Antiques
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
David B Stallard wrote:
> I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
> Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
> haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
> were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
> Inc. was also a big player.
Well, I like to use the Conquerors or the Ultimates. In fact my
present campaign is based on the idea in Enemies Ensemble where the Ultimates
form and go from a minor Villian group to a MAJOR Villian group, I just changed
their names.
As far as groups are concerned I use Viper and since my players
like mutants I like to use Genocide a lot. If you have any telepaths PSI is a
great group to use.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:35:45 EDT
To: trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Being eligible for the Sgt.'s exam is based almost entirely on years of
> service in our department. Just FYI.
<< That is XP, isn't it? Just plain experience in the field? >>
No. It is years on the department. In our department one can work in any
number of different divisions: Corrections, Investigative Services, Court
Security, Administration, Patrol Services, etc. Just having years on does not
give one more patrol experience necessarily.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.ucsf.edu from dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu server @mail.ucsf.EDU ip 128.218.95.23
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
To: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Lizard wrote:
> ...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
> 11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
>
> Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
>
> Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
> of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
> as well, or should.
Well, I think this brings up an interesting point. Since the Hero
System's "Normals Max Out At 20" rule isn't really hard-and-fast (just
pay double), do "normals" really max out at 20? With relatively cheap
stats like STR, INT, PRE, and COM, especially, it's not that expensive to
create ostensible "normals" with stats above 20. This implies (to me)
that normals with stats >20 are actually not overly unusual, given a large
enough population.
My take on it is that the 8-20 range represents the mean +/- 2SD of the
hypothetical normal distribution for adult humans. This leaves a
remaining 2.5% on either end to have values >20 or <8, and also expands
the range of stats available to normals. (Of course, if I had my way,
we'd also be using a stat/3-based skill system, so that more of the
intervening numbers *mean* something, but that's a topic for another
post...:)
I also don't think that INT in game terms qualifies as IQ (Wechsler scale,
presumably) divided by 10, since it's specifically described in the
rulebook as, essentially, how quickly someone thinks.
> As an example, here's my estimate of my own stats:
As a fellow player, I hereby refrain from comment. ;)
> STR:8
> DEX:9
> CON:9
> INT:15 (Yes, that's what I test at. Scary, ain't it?)
> EGO:11/20 (+9 EGO, limit:Only via the net, -2)
> PRE:10/20 (+10 PRE, limit as above, -2)
> COM:8
What about BODY? BODY is actually one of the stats with which I have a
great deal of conceptual trouble. In game terms, it seems analogous to,
essentially, Hit Points. But what does that translate to in real life
(tm)? Mass? Will to Live? Damage Resistance? Physique?
I generally end up thinking of BODY as overall mass (kind of like
Chaosium's SIZ attribute), but this usually leads to my characters
rarely buying up BODY, since I don't picture them as significantly larger
than average.
> Figure figured stats as normal, except +5 END, to represent the fact I walk
> a lot and can keep plugging away longer than you'd expect given the rest of
> my physical condition.
>
> Skills:
> KS:Geek stuff, 15-
> PS:Programmer, 12-
> AK:San Francisco, 8-, NYC,11-
> PS:Writer, 11-
> WF:Handguns
--Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
* DOS. *
* *
* --Izzy to Gabriel *
* THE PROPHECY II *
*************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:48:08 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Exciting yes, but still "routine", definatly not worth a point of
experience for every night showing up for work. If so, Super PCs should get
one for every mugger they stop, every cat the flying guy gets out of tree on
their patrols >>
That's your call as GM. ;) I'm not sure how you define "routine" in this
instance. I think we agree, however, that cops wouldn't get experience (in
game terms) for each night of work.
<< The biggest objetion I have to the 200+ pt cop (or any "realistic NPC) is
that it does make PCs look incompotent. A hero who's a cop in his secret id is
likely going to come out quite a bit "underskilled" along these lines. >>
You don't have to use the detailed write-up in a superhero game. And even if
you do and you want your PCs to have more skills, increase the points you
allow players to build their PCs with. You could even give them an extra 25
Pts "Only for background skills" or some such.
<< This is really going to stick out in low level "Dark Champions" games where
investigation is spotlighted unless the PCs all resemble the Harbinger of
Justice point totalwise.... >>
Once again I say... point totals are not the absolute measure of a
character. If you want characters to have more skills while keeping a decent
power level, give them more points for their characters. If you want your cops
to be 50 Pt. agents then by all means go for it.
> even my 200-250 Point cops are no match for one 200 point... supervillain
<< Perhaps on a combat basis but skillwise is another issue. >>
Okay, I'm going to make a general statement again. This is not the opinion
of Gold Rush Games or Hero Games. It is my own.
"Typical" PCs in Champions are incompetent when it comes to skills. There is
a fix, of course -- give them more points to buy the skills with.
Unfortunately most players seem to be stuck on this 250 Pt limit because
"that's what it says in the book." If you want more skills for your
characters, give them more points. Period.
Mark
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:49:08 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< The biggest objetion I have to the 200+ pt cop (or any "realistic NPC) is
that it does make PCs look incompotent.>>
Then don't use them.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:01 -0700
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:23 PM 4/14/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> ...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
>> 11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
>
> Yeah. And we're talking, for the "average man", a non-college
>educated individual. College, as I've argued, both adds skills and
>indicates a sense of being "above average" enough for more points.
>
>> Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
>
> Disagreed.
>
>> Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
>> of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
>> as well, or should. As an example, here's my estimate of my own stats:
>
> I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
>by skill rolls, it should probably be looked at as extending easily to 30
>for normals, considering that the age lim pushes it close to this. This
>allows for much more significance to INT scores. I'd say Genius level and
>above would have a 20+.
>
If you extend stats to 30 Normal Max, sure. Otherwise, the scale is
compressed.
>> STR:8
>
> Hmmm. How are you judging STR? If by bench press, this may be
>OK, may be too high. If, however, by dead lift or some other such method,
>you might want to up this.
>
Based on the fact I'm out of shape and don't exericse, but I'm not
seriously hindred in day-to-day to life;I have no trouble lugging stuff
around, but it's more of a strain for me than for most of my peers. Or
maybe I just bitch more than they do.
>> DEX:9
>
> You're a little less skilled than average?
>
Perhaps it ought to be lower. I trip over wrinkles in the force.
>> CON:9
>
> Hmmm. Based on your extra End argument, you may want to up this.
>
Possibly, but no more than average at best.
>> EGO:11/20 (+9 EGO, limit:Only via the net, -2)
>
> Eh? Explain.
>
>> PRE:10/20 (+10 PRE, limit as above, -2)
>
> See above.
I'm a lot more strong-willed (EGO) and intimidating (PRE) when I'm in my
net persona. I tend to be much more agreeable in real life, where there's a
risk of getting my face punched in.
>> COM:8
>
> Sure.
>
Gee, thanks.
>> KS:Geek stuff, 15-
>
> This would qualify, to me, as a "useless skill" that won't cost
>you any points.
>
Fair enough, but it ought to be listed.
>> PS:Programmer, 12-
>
> Fine. Where's the Computer Programing skill to go with it.
>
Computer Programming, 13-.
>> AK:San Francisco, 8-, NYC,11-
>
> Well, NYC is big enough that most specific questions would come
>with a negative modifier, so this is pretty good.
>
>> PS:Writer, 11-
>
> A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
>something published, but not write it.
There is no specific 'writing' skill, so what do you suggest? I'd say my
writing ability is 11-, my knowledge of being a professional writer is a
Familiarity, 8-.
>> WF:Handguns
>
> Maybe a WF:Knives, WF:Thrown, or something similar you've
>overlooked?
>
No training in any of those. I do have handgun training and experience.
> Whatabout college courses. Most would be useless skills, but some
>may provide useful ones at the 8- level. Sports? These would be KS
>and/or PS.
No sports, certainly. Other skills would be:
History, 8-
General Science 8-
Philosophy, 8-
PS:Salesman, 11-
Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
native speaker?)
Most of my knowledge skills (history of comics, knowledge of RPGs,
knowledge of anime, computer history, quote every line from Star Wars and
Monty Python, etc) are subsumed under 'geek stuff'.
I hesitate to list my disads because I'd end up being a 300 point character
if I did. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.globalserve.net from hartjes@ionsys.com server @smtp2.globalserve.net ip 209.90.128.7
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:55:42 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <hartjes@ionsys.com>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
> Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
> haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
> were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
> Inc. was also a big player.
I tend to make up my own organizations and villians because often they
wouldn't fit into my campaign world without a lot of changes. I tend
not to like organizations like Viper and Demon because it seems to me
that unless they always acted in secret or disguised their efforts,
*someone* would organize an effective resistance and destroy them.
Chris Hartjes
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mason2.gmu.edu from wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu server @mason2.gmu.edu ip 129.174.1.11
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:56:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
X-Sender: wbushway@mason2.gmu.edu
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, David B Stallard wrote:
I'll comment on the two I own;
> * The Olympians
I purchased this for the writeups of the Greek/Roman gods. I
needed some inspiration for powers for Olympian, my Fawcett
Cpt.Marvel-type hero (Shazam!). I wasn't really that impressed; the gods'
powers were rather bland, the only thing making them dangerous were their
sheer point totals. The book also provided only the most cursory of
coverage of Greek Heroes and Demigods, both major parts of Greek
mythology.
If I remember correctly (I don't have it in front of me), the book
doesn't give any very inpired scenario ideas to anchor the Gods in the
campaign. They're mentioned in Champions Universe, but haven't had
much of an impact on continuity. The book also doesn't say anything on
the Greek Gods during the ancient period; a little Greek history would
have been nice. The location maps were pretty lame; just overhead views
with place names, no descriptions.
I guess that the book's worth picking up at a discount, if you're
interested in one take on the Greek gods.
> * Champions Presents #1
Actual published adventures for Champions are so rare, it's hard
to pass on picking them up. Like always, some tailoring is necessary
before use.
Seeing as my campaign-to-be is set in D.C., I'll probably get the
most use out of Spectrum. A pretty well fleshed-out superteam, along with
a scenario to use them in? You can't beat that with stick. I especially
liked the way Prism's background ties into those of other Champions
Universe characters.
The time travelling scenario is useful, if only to give you a
workable example on how to set one up. It also gives you a nice
smattering of characters from different genres. I especially liked the
concepts of the Pulp-style characters, Crimestopper and the Masque.
The Inuit Ice-Demon scenario, however, just fell flat with me.
The only thing I could salvage from that one were the pictures for Ice
Shadow, and the big baddie, who'll appear in my game under different
identities.
Of course, you'll have to take my reviews with a grain of salt; I
haven't actually had a chance to use _either_ book in a game yet. :P
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:00:42 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< To a degree. But HERO is perfectly comfortable 'blowing off' those detailed
writeups for 'stock' characters. >>
Just as comfortable as it is using the detailed write-ups. ;)
<< Even in a Police-centered campaign, I'd expect the standard police officer
to be written up pretty much the same as in a Superhero campaign. >>
Then that is what you should use. Not everyone agrees, however. Some people
want to see the detailed write-ups.
<< True, but I get a sneaking suspicion you might be a tad offended if it
happened in your campaign ^_^. >>
That's why it's called "my campaign." I'd be silly to let someone else
dictate how I should GM my own game (except when it comes to players having
fun).
<< Don't laugh, Watchers of the Dragon couldn't build 'popcorn' ninja to fight
heroic characters on less than 150 points, and made ninja for fighting
superheroes start at 250 points*. >>
That is perfectly appropriate given the subbject of the book. What's more,
el cheapo 50 Pt ninja have been published elsewhere. I don't see what the
problem is. If you like them you use them. If you kinda like them, tweak them
until they're usable to you. If you don't like them at all, then ignore them.
It's a printed page, not a mystic curse. <LOL>
<< THIS is the sort of error I don't want to see in Law and Order. I just want
to stress the importance of starting the scale as low as possible/believable -
from there, go as high as you please! >>
What in the world ever gave you the idea that we weren't presenting less-
expensive alternatives to this stuff? Has no one been reading my posts
thoroughly?
<< Watchers of the Dragon _didn't_ make allowances for most styles of game
play
- they had the uber-ninjas galore, but lacked the lower end. Ninja Hero is
better in this respect, giving 100 and 120 point heroic ninja, which is
probably the reasonable bottom end on ninja-hood. >>
In your opinion. That's fine. But if you want "realistically accurate"
ninja...
<< I just wanted to point out that 'abstracted' is not the same as
'unrealistic', and abstracted costs a whole lot less (what if I want to have
Police Officers as followers, or Summon them? I want them cheap and cost
effective as possible, right? :-).>>
That a player-centric view. As a GM, I would want you to pay for what you
were getting. If you want retarded cops who carry cap guns and plastic
handcuffs, fine. Here you go. But if you want a "real" cop... prepare to pay a
little more for it.
To be honest, however, I'm starting to get a little bored with some of the
same comments over and over and over again in this thread. It's this very
reason that I seldom post anything of substance to the HML. It's a shame that
people can't simply state their opinion, seek clarification, and say "Hm. I
wouldn't use that, but it is cool to see. I wonder what else they're going to
do in the book?"
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Equipment
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:07:13 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Another reason for listing costs of spaceship equipment is that it's a
benchmark to compare effectiveness of one craft versus another. Your
ship can specialize in being maneuverable, stealthy, or offensive.
In my old Star Hero campaign, I told my players that they had X points
to spend on a spaceship, from the given equipment list in the book.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo13.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo13.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.35
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:13:59 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Law& Order
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< What about the UCMJ and the Militay Police and it's various forms? The DEA,
and all the Govt. agencies? How about "Future Law Organizations"? Any real
surprises in store?>>
I'm wondering how people expect us to publish a 160 page book about
200-point cops! <LOL>
Of OCURSE we're going to at least touch on all of these topics. After all,
the book is called "Law & Order," not "Dukes of Hazard!" :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:16:01 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Sorry, Tim, but street cops are *NOT* the heroes of the story. >>
Not in a superhero game, perhaps. But perhaps in another game they would be.
;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 14:18:41 -0400
Lines: 38
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> And the major villians aren't either the Heroes of the story.
They are the antagonists to the PC protagonists. That puts them in the
same category as the PCs.
> Nor are minor villians or minor NPC heroes. (Or followers, or DNPCs, or
> . . . you get the point).
Supporting cast fits somewhere between the protagonists and antagonists
(main cast), and everyone else (extras).
> PC Cops in a Police Hero game would obviously earn XP, I don't
> expect you to debate that. However, their NPC rivals should improve and
> mature just as they do.
I disagree. The PCs are the protagonists of the story. NPC allies should
rarely be as proficient as the PCs, and even more rarely be superior.
Those that are should be relegated to positions where they cannot outshine
the PCs.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTOogJ6VRH7BJMxHAQFkWgP+In9zwXkbEmqD7xdZBpZatdv4ApXEmMJN
d3cYasmsC1gDU3uERF9lC0mwOGYtDGVS4MP2Ww21ijyONA7u1yvHkm8bBqtgrd7w
Drq9LfAqvTPtRwEu5XMzOZhlVH52TLStZw6ajRgscFeFeEgPzWZzsBvadTwmccRt
xv3rq3K28Gk=
=2Ip/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
To: trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu (Tim R. Gilberg)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:24:09 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > ...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
> > 11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
>
> Yeah. And we're talking, for the "average man", a non-college
> educated individual. College, as I've argued, both adds skills and
> indicates a sense of being "above average" enough for more points.
>
I'd personally say an average person is college educated, or trained in
a profession. Besides, anyone with any real world experience can tell you
that the average college grad knows less than the average trained mechanic in
their relative professions. College is just to theoretical and not enough hands
on to give any real skills beyond "KS: trivia related to desired profession,
but not directly applicable."
I've seen it time and time again where a HS grad with 4 years in the
army as an electrician can out perform a kid with a an engineering degree.
However the kid with the degree can talk electronic theory and
terminology circles around the veteran.
I'd make a HS grad with no training a 0 pointer. someone who'd been
through a trade school, or graduate degree with no work experience yet a
skilled normal (25 pointer).
Then go from there. A doctorate with no work exp might also be a 25
pointer, as the longer you stay in school, the more you loose touch with a
few of your real world skills and knowledges.
> > Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
> Disagreed.
>
> > Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
> > of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
> > as well, or should. As an example, here's my estimate of my own stats:
>
> I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
All stats in Hero as far as I know use the 'every 5 worth is twice as
good.' Know I know a person with a 150 IQ is more than twice as smart as a
person with a 100 IQ. But I don't know by how much.
> > STR:8
>
> Hmmm. How are you judging STR? If by bench press, this may be
> OK, may be too high. If, however, by dead lift or some other such method,
> you might want to up this.
I used to believe my strength was low as well. Basing it off my old
high school estimate of me vs. the jock types. But I'd say I'm a 10 now, with
a skill level in strength rolls for certain tasks that I got good at in the
military.
Hero places the average at 10. So I'd use whatever X let the average
adult do 100kg of X (or whatever close thing we can find) as the measurement.
> > INT:15 (Yes, that's what I test at. Scary, ain't it?)
> See above. This would work out to a 20-23, probably, in an
> expanded INT.
Agreed.
> > AK:San Francisco, 8-, NYC,11-
>
> Well, NYC is big enough that most specific questions would come
> with a negative modifier, so this is pretty good.
Also true with San Francisco.
Myself in the AK dept I have:
San Francisco 11-, Berkeley 11-, Bay Area 8-, Silicon Valley 8-
Seoul (SK) 8-, Suwon 8-, Songtan 12-, South Korea 8-
And some sub skills on certain districts or 'scenes' in some of those
cities, like KS: Seoul Nightlife, both korean and expat versions. Or
AK: Seoul tourist spots, palaces, museums, and temples 12-. :)
I was quite a traveller of Korea when I lived there, and know it better
than I do my home city.
> > PS:Writer, 11-
>
> A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
> something published, but not write it.
KS: Writing?
> > WF:Handguns
>
> Maybe a WF:Knives, WF:Thrown, or something similar you've
> overlooked?
Here's one for you: familiarity with using a weapon group, but not
enough to cancel out all the penelties, yet more than someone with no clue.
WF: Chinese Martial weapons (lim: only to cancel unskilled penalties
for either ocv or dcv, but not both? (are there penalties to both?))
I'm tempted to show a writeup of myself...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 14:30:29 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
> by skill rolls, it should probably be looked at as extending easily to 30
> for normals, considering that the age lim pushes it close to this. This
> allows for much more significance to INT scores. I'd say Genius level
> and above would have a 20+.
Enh... INT is really a measure of how fast one can think, not how much one
knows (check the BBB for its exact definition; it is *NOT* IQ). Albert
Einstein is my favorite example of a genius-level person with an INT of
around 8 -- the prototypical absent-minded professer.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTOrOJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHJbAP9F7qxGRPihYUmc039JWpJLslKARMvfk3Y
BvlO32Wvn33XYBvP5tD+uoHvQSsQHPo/feVQGv2aqRKhCe6/WmY51yl6xKI+KA5F
EPaIci9A1r2C3wn5OrEI+/+rRs6gHn8IdEAyrtkv4k3dK+HIXHS9mRr6bHuedRwl
38hht+ZPb8Q=
=l0ho
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Body for the average man
To: dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu (Dennis C Hwang)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: lizard@mrlizard.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> As a fellow player, I hereby refrain from comment. ;)
Yeah, me too. :) Though unlike you, if he messes with Cosmo Lass
in his game, I can give Neo trouble in mine. :)
> > STR:8
> > DEX:9
> > CON:9
> > INT:15 (Yes, that's what I test at. Scary, ain't it?)
> > EGO:11/20 (+9 EGO, limit:Only via the net, -2)
> > PRE:10/20 (+10 PRE, limit as above, -2)
> > COM:8
>
> What about BODY? BODY is actually one of the stats with which I have a
> great deal of conceptual trouble. In game terms, it seems analogous to,
> essentially, Hit Points. But what does that translate to in real life
> (tm)? Mass? Will to Live? Damage Resistance? Physique?
>
> I generally end up thinking of BODY as overall mass (kind of like
> Chaosium's SIZ attribute), but this usually leads to my characters
> rarely buying up BODY, since I don't picture them as significantly larger
> than average.
I think it's just a 'pain threshold, luck, shock resistance, etc.'
sort of thing. Isn't most death a matter of shock as oppossed to actual
ripping away of tissue needed to continue functioning?
In which case, high body could fit many people who simply have
'the will to survive'. Conversly, many stronger, heavier types can be
rather poor with shock.
After all, if body=mass, overweight people would be nigh
unstoppable. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:42:39 -0700
To: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:43 AM 4/14/98 -0700, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
>What about BODY? BODY is actually one of the stats with which I have a
>great deal of conceptual trouble. In game terms, it seems analogous to,
>essentially, Hit Points. But what does that translate to in real life
>(tm)? Mass? Will to Live? Damage Resistance? Physique?
>
>I generally end up thinking of BODY as overall mass (kind of like
>Chaosium's SIZ attribute), but this usually leads to my characters
>rarely buying up BODY, since I don't picture them as significantly larger
>than average.
>
Sheesh, how did I miss that? I'd put my BODY at an even 10, as my increased
mass balances out with my low pain threshold to about average.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
To: lizard@mrlizard.com (Lizard)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
> >by skill rolls, it should probably be looked at as extending easily to 30
> >for normals, considering that the age lim pushes it close to this. This
> >allows for much more significance to INT scores. I'd say Genius level and
> >above would have a 20+.
> >
> If you extend stats to 30 Normal Max, sure. Otherwise, the scale is
> compressed.
>
The 'max' is not a cap so much as a point at which it costs double in
order to reflect the rarity.
> Based on the fact I'm out of shape and don't exericse, but I'm not
> seriously hindred in day-to-day to life;I have no trouble lugging stuff
> around, but it's more of a strain for me than for most of my peers. Or
> maybe I just bitch more than they do.
I'll go for door number 2. :)
Plus a lot of people simply don't know how to use the Str they
have. That's why I gave myself a skill level in it. The military
hammered that one down our throats, as it was a lot cheaper
than paying medical bills. :)
> Perhaps it ought to be lower. I trip over wrinkles in the force.
Steer clear of Strawberry Ripple then. :)
> Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
> represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
> native speaker?)
>
This is the 5 point level of a language. Unless that applies only
to knowing all the dialects.
> Most of my knowledge skills (history of comics, knowledge of RPGs,
> knowledge of anime, computer history, quote every line from Star Wars and
> Monty Python, etc) are subsumed under 'geek stuff'.
Trust me, he can quote all that stuff. It must have taken him years
to learn all of it... :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 14:54:59 -0400
Lines: 80
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael Nunn writes:
> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
My biggest problem with this is that 1/3 wants to be Infantry, 1/3 wants to
be a Ranger, and 1/3 wants to be discharged. For PBI, DEX and Speed are
too high, Body too low, and there are a lot of inappropriate skills listed.
> 2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
What job? Most recruits are fresh out of high school.
> 2 KS: Hobby 11-
8-, and it is a freebie.
> 1 Paramedic 8-
Another everyman skill; another freebie.
> 3 Tactics 12-
Only after OCS.
> 1 Computers 8-
Only for a particular specialst.
> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
Largely useless, so why pay points for it?
> (2) KS: Military 11-
> (2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
Only for OCS. Most of what a grunt knows is subsumbed by his soldiering
professional skill.
> (1) TF,Parachuting
Infantry don't drop, Rangers drop.
> (3) Navigation 11-
A specialist.
> (2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
Ditto.
> 5 Subject to recall
> 10 Watched,"The US Army",more powerful,non-combat influence,
> harsh,appear 8-
If discharged, the former applies; if active, the latter. Pick one.
> 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-
Unlikely for an enlisted Infantryman.
> 5 Unluck,1D6
Not the kind of disadvantage I would want every soldier to have.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTOxAZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFcXQP9FKxpE+KJsDL5DH2nGtSMWVQgwClZLx1T
szUU40XcvlnClFTbxoUPM6Gks2fPduzmViI7vvozA9Br9TrrWrfyWxN2dZzSf5xK
oXn+D4ihz1DTVy+lrBoen502sBN1j2f8F5pEEHc1IT6AZQ0yBnrWsNFN2WIP6NPn
esPjIzpZUmA=
=WbzE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 15:00:38 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
bobby farris writes:
> My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional
> skill has another applicable skill than the player must have that skill.
Pardon me, but duh. This is not a house rule, this is common sense.
I mean, a teacher needs "Professional Skill: Teacher" to be able to teach.
But he needs a relevant skill in the subject that he is teaching in order
to be able to teach it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTOyVZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFVqQQAjsrzMMKmOl5sgFul0EW9x+2W5YjhwgUf
uwUqq6ny5t8t/Pvd9FiRA5BKL1gEYi/yBJciw1yET/L+9Q6+BiZXgUX6S+1GYxhe
NaiYibWOuP/KatVHOiTFES98M2bsbSwpjoAOpKGEOL/D+wnV4fqsZT52e/z5TbLE
GMYus9t9byQ=
=RylI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
To: hartjes@ionsys.com (Chris Hartjes)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> > campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> > haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
>
> I tend to make up my own organizations and villians because often they
> wouldn't fit into my campaign world without a lot of changes. I tend
> not to like organizations like Viper and Demon because it seems to me
> that unless they always acted in secret or disguised their efforts,
> *someone* would organize an effective resistance and destroy them.
Most the Champions villians and groups are written with a definate
'Marvel Comics' flavor to them. If your world doesn't follow a Marvel feel,
then it's likely they just wont fit without some tweaking. Now, about 99% of
the Champion's games I've played in followed the Marvel feel, so in general
this is not a major issue for most people. Just those of us who do diferent
styles.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:05:51 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Test
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@sysabend.org"
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Hi. Anyone getting this?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us server @alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.11
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:08:47 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average Man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
"qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:01 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
>represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
>native speaker?)
Easy: +1 pt. A 'native' has 4 pts in a language, but you can have 5
pts. In a tonal language like Chinese, you could add in Perfect Pitch,
too.
qts
<<<
It would be interesting to use the +1 point to suggest a
large vocabulary, skilled diction, and so on (as you seem to be
suggesting), though I believe the BBB pretty specifically
states that 5 points in a language gives you the skill to
imitate dialects.
Other possibilities for language ability include Oratory, KS:
English Vocabulary, KS: English Grammar, and PS: Writer. I'd
probably assume that most characters with Linguist or any
KS's or PS's related to reading or writing have superior
language ability as well.
Now that I think about it, excellent diction could be a good
justification (or at least part of the justification) for a
high PRE. A high INT might include ability with language in some
cases, but certainly not all.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-4.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-4.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.134
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:11:35 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA04022
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by GoldRushG
> "Typical" PCs in Champions are incompetent when it comes to skills.
There is
a fix, of course -- give them more points to buy the skills with.
Unfortunately most players seem to be stuck on this 250 Pt limit because
"that's what it says in the book." If you want more skills for your
characters, give them more points. Period.
You could even give them an extra 25 Pts "Only for background skills" or
some such.<
I've played in campaigns where the GM allocated a certain amount of points
"for skills only", and it worked beautifully. Groups I've been involved
with have always had a tendency to skimp on the skills, buying only 2 or 3
to stop the GM from frowning at us. By giving us points only for skills,
he was happy that we didn't think about only combat and we were happy
because we got more well-rounded characters. I think this was a 250 point
game, where 225 points were for characteristics/powers and 25 were for
skills. I had forgotten about this, but now that I've been reminded, I'll
probably change my current 250 point game (which just started) to be 250
points + 25 points for skills only.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 15:13:28 -0400
Lines: 30
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Dennis C Hwang writes:
> Well, I think this brings up an interesting point. Since the Hero
> System's "Normals Max Out At 20" rule isn't really hard-and-fast (just
> pay double), do "normals" really max out at 20?
Normals do not max out at 20. *MOST* normals max out at twenty. "Normal
maximum" does not mean that it is the maximum that a normal person can
achieve, it means that it is the maximum that a person can normally
achieve. A perfectly normal person can put an abnormal effort into
increasing his Strength beyond what can normally be achieved.
Anyone know what the world's record for heaviest lift is?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTO1Vp6VRH7BJMxHAQHTIAQAjcducDH5tM3gwNKwA7AmH9w+QZ3yTfz3
7NGgWokOyct0xpQLFUbpg14lS95rfya2tQmhmG1GEzESHrNB+SzlZJagDY756A7c
Y3/WwtOzR24We+rEVFt9AqJEXogbZyOhMo3WMfNgTQKRBSM20UAE0/zERKIZFAdG
dSLVEBj0PFc=
=WAKA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us server @alpha2.mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.11
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:27:05 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> > campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> > haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
I'm another in the "none" camp.
They don't match my style, and I prefer to create distinctive
worlds from scratch anyway. If I'm going to put the trouble into
running a campaign world, I want the world to be mine (and my
players', of course) through and through.
It's unfortunate for me that my tastes in these matters run
exactly counter to Hero's marketing philosophies. I wouldn't mind
having a self-contained published adventure module now and then
for a one-shot break from my own work, and I appreciate genre
or period support materials, but I'm not much interested in
published characters or organizations.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"Champions" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 19:28:24
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: I need a name (oh no, not again! :)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:10 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA
wrote:
>Made a character. She has plasma based powers.
>EB, FF, Flight. Don't want a cliche name like Nova
>or Plasma Girl. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?
How about Sunday?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:40:37 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA04976
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Brian Wong
> I've seen it time and time again where a HS grad with 4 years in
the
army as an electrician can out perform a kid with a an engineering degree.
However the kid with the degree can talk electronic theory and
terminology circles around the veteran.<
This is off-topic, but it struck a chord....
I'd agree here, but I think the severity of it varies by field. For
instance, I have a BS in Computer Science. I think the first two years
were extremely valuable, but the last two (especially the senior level
classes) were fairly worthless in practical terms...they delve too much
into the "theory of the science" and aren't much use outside of academic
circles.
On the other hand, I have a minor in English. From my experience, the vast
majority of the cirriculum is worthless from a job skill point of view.
They spend far too much time having you read the "classics" and far too
little time teaching you how to write. It's funny, because most of the
writing that you do is non-fiction (essays, research papers, etc), but most
of the writing you study is fiction (Shakespeare, etc). There is almost
zero effort placed on teaching you how to write in the style that
academians hold so high. My experience was that an English degree teaches
you how to analyze writing, not how to write such material yourself (one
does not beget the other).
I guess I should say that my experience is with Louisiana State University,
and my comments may or may not be valid with other schools.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com&> "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 19:43:13
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:01 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
>represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
>native speaker?)
Easy: +1 pt. A 'native' has 4 pts in a language, but you can have 5
pts. In a tonal language like Chinese, you could add in Perfect Pitch,
too.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle-140.raptor.com from jcalvaneso@raptor.com server @eagle1a.raptor.com ip 209.48.140.11
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:48:01 -0400
From: Justin Calvaneso <jcalvaneso@raptor.com>
Organization: Raptor Systems
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Brian Wong wrote:
> Most the Champions villians and groups are written with a definate
> 'Marvel Comics' flavor to them. If your world doesn't follow a Marvel feel,
> then it's likely they just wont fit without some tweaking. Now, about 99% of
> the Champion's games I've played in followed the Marvel feel, so in general
> this is not a major issue for most people. Just those of us who do diferent
> styles.
Define 'Marvel flavor'. I'm curious.
---
Justin Calvaneso Raptor Systems, Inc.
Test Lab Technician a division of Axent Technologies
jcalvaneso@raptor.com 266 Second Avenue
(781) 530-2362 Waltham, MA 02154
---
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo saturn.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @saturn.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Chris Lynch" <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 19:48:07
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:36:48 +0100, Chris Lynch wrote:
>qts wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>
>> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>> >swing lines.
>> >
>> >Would one use Swinging?
>> >Stretching?
>> >I know that Ninja Hero talks about using Entangle, but I seems a bit odd
>> >to create a climbing line with that exact power.
>>
>> How about Stretching or Flight? I'd go for the former, having used it
>> for magic grappling hooks.
>> qts
>>
>> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
>
> Flight works well for the Batman style of line (or the Spiderman - I can't
>believe that this guy is getting overlooking in the swinging line stakes!)
>with limitations such as "Only in urban environment" or "Requires purchase".
>The urban one is about -1/2 (if you take him out into the desert he's in
>trouble) but the "purchase" thing is only really worth about -1/4 as players
>will always find something to attach a line to...
Especially enemies - hence my use of Stretching - effectively allowing
a HKA at range.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.139
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:52:04 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA05149
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
>Infantry don't drop, Rangers drop.<
Uh, my dad was in the 82nd and 101st Airborn Infantry and I'm fairly
certain he wasn't a Ranger.
> > 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-<
Unlikely for an enlisted Infantryman.<
Huh? What do you base that on? From my recollection of living in military
housing on several military bases, they are just as likely to be married as
anyone else.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.ucsf.edu from dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu server @mail.ucsf.EDU ip 128.218.95.23
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On 14 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Dennis C Hwang writes:
>
> > Well, I think this brings up an interesting point. Since the Hero
> > System's "Normals Max Out At 20" rule isn't really hard-and-fast (just
> > pay double), do "normals" really max out at 20?
>
> Normals do not max out at 20. *MOST* normals max out at twenty. "Normal
> maximum" does not mean that it is the maximum that a normal person can
> achieve, it means that it is the maximum that a person can normally
> achieve. A perfectly normal person can put an abnormal effort into
> increasing his Strength beyond what can normally be achieved.
Well, I guess my main question was essentially: how common are stat
scores >20 in the "normal" population?
> Anyone know what the world's record for heaviest lift is?
What kind of lift? For that matter, what kind of lift is being assumed in
the STR chart?
I've assumed a sort of dead-lift/whole-body lift for the STR chart, since
a 100-kg (220-lb) bench press would be way above "average"...
--Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
* DOS. *
* *
* --Izzy to Gabriel *
* THE PROPHECY II *
*************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Hero Wish List (Was Which published villains do you use?)
To: NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us (BILL SVITAVSKY)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> It's unfortunate for me that my tastes in these matters run
> exactly counter to Hero's marketing philosophies. I wouldn't mind
> having a self-contained published adventure module now and then
> for a one-shot break from my own work, and I appreciate genre
> or period support materials, but I'm not much interested in
> published characters or organizations.
I agree here. Here's what my dream come true of Hero Products would be:
1. Cardboard miniatures, blanks, siloettes (sp wrong, I failed my Int check),
and fully drawn and colored of all sorts.
2. Genre books (Fantasy Hero, Space Hero, Super Hero)
3. Sub genre books (like Golden Age heroes, Lands of Mystery, Dark Champions)
4. Champions Plus. Rules expansions, optional rules, and popular house rules
put this one out on a one volume a year basis or something.
Collect rules from people's house games and present them for
everyone's perusal.
5. Gm and Players screens, now of course, the players screen need not be a
stand up, but just a few pages of quick ref stuff.
6. A whole book of siloettes (failed that Int roll again. :) ) for my less
art inclined players.
7. quicky scenerio books, showing how to take a basic thread and expand it
into an advneture, rather than the full adventure. Example of this
would be Challenges for Champions done even better. (I think, just
bought it, haven't read it yet.)
8. WorldBooks, Licenced lines. Marvel Hero, Conan Fantasy Hero, Expanding
Western Shores out to a full worldbook. San Angelo, etc...
9. Villian and Hero collections. Enemies and Allies books. Though I disliked
allies as it lacked enough solo's and had too many teams for my tastes.
I would want these to be single quick NPC's I could toss in on a rainy
day. Or scavenge for parts, more or less, when building my own NPC's.
That's more or less in order.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:00:57 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
To correct a number of false assertions...
A rather significant percentage of soldiers do not come straight out of high
school. Even those that do, often have jobs in high school. And this is a
standard soldier - not a recruit.
Infantry are trained in basic tactics in basic/AIT, with more training as
you ascend in rank, both through schools and OJT.
Infantry do learn about the military and its history and its customs,
particularly if they want to pass any promotion boards. In fact, the most
unit museums are taken care of by enlisted personnel.
Rangers are in the *minority* of airborne troopers. The 82nd Airborne
Division and the rest of the XVIIIth Airborne Corps is a prime example.
All US Army soldiers are taught to navigate, infantry even more so.
If a soldier is a member of a rapid response unit (like the entire XVIIIth
Airborne Corps) then Recall is appropriate to active duty since by SOP you
are expected to be back at your unit HQ within 2 hours, even if on vacation.
If you are on active duty, the US Army certainly comes up more than 8- IRL.
A great many enlisted are married. some E-1s come in married and I'd
venture that at least 50% of E-5 and above are married.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 2:55 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Michael Nunn writes:
>
> > Standard US Army Infantry Solider
>
> My biggest problem with this is that 1/3 wants to be Infantry, 1/3 wants
> to
> be a Ranger, and 1/3 wants to be discharged. For PBI, DEX and Speed are
> too high, Body too low, and there are a lot of inappropriate skills
> listed.
>
> > 2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
>
> What job? Most recruits are fresh out of high school.
>
> > 2 KS: Hobby 11-
>
> 8-, and it is a freebie.
>
> > 1 Paramedic 8-
>
> Another everyman skill; another freebie.
>
> > 3 Tactics 12-
>
> Only after OCS.
>
> > 1 Computers 8-
>
> Only for a particular specialst.
>
> > 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
>
> Largely useless, so why pay points for it?
>
> > (2) KS: Military 11-
> > (2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
>
> Only for OCS. Most of what a grunt knows is subsumbed by his soldiering
> professional skill.
>
> > (1) TF,Parachuting
>
> Infantry don't drop, Rangers drop.
>
> > (3) Navigation 11-
>
> A specialist.
>
> > (2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
>
> Ditto.
>
> > 5 Subject to recall
> > 10 Watched,"The US Army",more powerful,non-combat influence,
> > harsh,appear 8-
>
> If discharged, the former applies; if active, the latter. Pick one.
>
> > 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-
>
> Unlikely for an enlisted Infantryman.
>
> > 5 Unluck,1D6
>
> Not the kind of disadvantage I would want every soldier to have.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTOxAZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFcXQP9FKxpE+KJsDL5DH2nGtSMWVQgwClZLx1T
> szUU40XcvlnClFTbxoUPM6Gks2fPduzmViI7vvozA9Br9TrrWrfyWxN2dZzSf5xK
> oXn+D4ihz1DTVy+lrBoen502sBN1j2f8F5pEEHc1IT6AZQ0yBnrWsNFN2WIP6NPn
> esPjIzpZUmA=
> =WbzE
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly,
> and
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid
> prolonged
> \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:02:58 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Dennis C Hwang writes:
> Well, I guess my main question was essentially: how common are stat
> scores >20 in the "normal" population?
Uncommon at best. You will not find a statistically relelvant segment of
the population with any >normal maximum characteristics because exceeding
normal maxima requires exceptional effort. These few people are generally
not going to be a significant part of any demographic survey, what as they
are busy doing things like training for the next Olympiad or other
world-class meet (or are busy concealing their heroic identities from an
unsuspecting world).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPA8Z6VRH7BJMxHAQGpkwP+NcQazoQOqNOHcgoH+FuJestO8BFNp1AE
VW9WoPGynOt5LqXmmg8ppYNkbpDQphX/zIYWY9euw4GAM4oGnwlmTNMU27T0My1z
M8mdLwkV7fQgkmS07ItVD2+WCYxy8lorjpkBAPlhHHarXLaBQy31H5YIdiB8TApo
fHHRUkcbPNs=
=X08m
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:03:29 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Actually, a teacher who is any good would also have a skill in teaching.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:01 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> bobby farris writes:
>
> > My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional
> > skill has another applicable skill than the player must have that skill.
>
> Pardon me, but duh. This is not a house rule, this is common sense.
>
> I mean, a teacher needs "Professional Skill: Teacher" to be able to teach.
> But he needs a relevant skill in the subject that he is teaching in order
> to be able to teach it.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTOyVZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFVqQQAjsrzMMKmOl5sgFul0EW9x+2W5YjhwgUf
> uwUqq6ny5t8t/Pvd9FiRA5BKL1gEYi/yBJciw1yET/L+9Q6+BiZXgUX6S+1GYxhe
> NaiYibWOuP/KatVHOiTFES98M2bsbSwpjoAOpKGEOL/D+wnV4fqsZT52e/z5TbLE
> GMYus9t9byQ=
> =RylI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain
> types
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
> \
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:10:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << That is XP, isn't it? Just plain experience in the field? >>
>
> No. It is years on the department. In our department one can work in any
> number of different divisions: Corrections, Investigative Services, Court
> Security, Administration, Patrol Services, etc. Just having years on does not
> give one more patrol experience necessarily.
Ah. I see your point. Still, even the "minor" jobs while not on
patrol would earn some XP, though much of it would be "earmarked".
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:22:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Body for the average man
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> In which case, high body could fit many people who simply have
> 'the will to survive'. Conversly, many stronger, heavier types can be
> rather poor with shock.
> After all, if body=mass, overweight people would be nigh
> unstoppable. :)
I've always seen it as a mix of the mentioned factors. Someone a
bit bigger than normal (like me) will have a bit more bod than normal.
Someone with a higher will to live than normal will have a bit more bod
than normal. Someone better trained to take damage than normal will have
a bit higher bod than normal. Someone with all of the above will have an
aweful lot.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:22:50 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
We do something similar this, in that we require the character to have a
minimum number of non-combat skills and a minimum level in each. It works
pretty well.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David B Stallard [SMTP:DBStallard@compuserve.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:12 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: [unknown]
> Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
>
> Message text written by GoldRushG
> > "Typical" PCs in Champions are incompetent when it comes to skills.
> There is
> a fix, of course -- give them more points to buy the skills with.
> Unfortunately most players seem to be stuck on this 250 Pt limit because
> "that's what it says in the book." If you want more skills for your
> characters, give them more points. Period.
> You could even give them an extra 25 Pts "Only for background skills"
> or
> some such.<
>
> I've played in campaigns where the GM allocated a certain amount of points
> "for skills only", and it worked beautifully. Groups I've been involved
> with have always had a tendency to skimp on the skills, buying only 2 or 3
> to stop the GM from frowning at us. By giving us points only for skills,
> he was happy that we didn't think about only combat and we were happy
> because we got more well-rounded characters. I think this was a 250 point
> game, where 225 points were for characteristics/powers and 25 were for
> skills. I had forgotten about this, but now that I've been reminded, I'll
> probably change my current 250 point game (which just started) to be 250
> points + 25 points for skills only.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:24:16 -0400
Lines: 38
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
David B Stallard writes:
> Message text written by Stainless Steel Rat
>> Infantry don't drop, Rangers drop.<
> Uh, my dad was in the 82nd and 101st Airborn Infantry and I'm fairly
> certain he wasn't a Ranger.
Airborne Infantry != Infantry. Rangers are "elite" Airborne Infantry.
>> > 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-<
> Unlikely for an enlisted Infantryman.<
> Huh? What do you base that on?
On the fact that Joe Soldier is fresh out of high school.
> From my recollection of living in military housing on several military
> bases, they are just as likely to be married as anyone else.
Yeah, officers and career enslited, not Joe Soldier doing his basic tour of
duty.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPF7p6VRH7BJMxHAQHOVQP8CsH8ATdTVHLrYnDUPFFI+/LTIOXK0A3y
x5iogzLiu9Zo6i1oqFthYL/HBodmDkE/HGUqh7bYFbUsRgCOOtnpgJr7KV+O3vyi
3o/CObh1oB6O8SdVr6rHNBFrvZ+cfLt4Pb3gb3DhIJl5dpeV48SRR/W0rFNvwFOS
Kzb63oAmHtU=
=Ef/t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:25:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > And the major villians aren't either the Heroes of the story.
>
> They are the antagonists to the PC protagonists. That puts them in the
> same category as the PCs.
And supporting characters would be in the same scenarios. They'll
develop as the players do to provide a fluid world. I don't much like the
sound of your cardboard silouette of a world.
> > PC Cops in a Police Hero game would obviously earn XP, I don't
> > expect you to debate that. However, their NPC rivals should improve and
> > mature just as they do.
>
> I disagree. The PCs are the protagonists of the story. NPC allies should
> rarely be as proficient as the PCs, and even more rarely be superior.
> Those that are should be relegated to positions where they cannot outshine
> the PCs.
Um. I was talking about NPC rivals, which almost certainly _will_
exist. That FBI Local Investigator will continually be competing for
cases. That Street Pounder who wants to do more will keep trying to get
in on the action. As the players improve, they will too in order to keep
at a similar level of challenge. If they remained static, any type of
rivalry would quickly become moot.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:28:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Enh... INT is really a measure of how fast one can think, not how much one
> knows (check the BBB for its exact definition; it is *NOT* IQ). Albert
> Einstein is my favorite example of a genius-level person with an INT of
> around 8 -- the prototypical absent-minded professer.
Um. No. Much of IQ _is_ how fast you can think. Some is what
you know, but it often goes together. Einstein would recieve a Phys Lim:
Absent Minded and, perhaps, a Phys Lim: Not very perceptive.
He was quite fast at thinking about very difficult subjects,
something that went beyond a mere recitation of knowledge. He came up
with a huge amount of ideas, being able to work his mind quickly through
thinks most would fall apart on.
Give him a 30, maybe more, even if an IQ test showed up as low.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:29:54 -0400
Lines: 59
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Goode, Jason writes:
> A rather significant percentage of soldiers do not come straight out of
> high school. Even those that do, often have jobs in high school. And
> this is a standard soldier - not a recruit.
"Joe Soldier" is fresh out of basic and specialist training.
> Infantry are trained in basic tactics in basic/AIT, with more training as
> you ascend in rank, both through schools and OJT.
8- like I said.
> Infantry do learn about the military and its history and its customs,
> particularly if they want to pass any promotion boards. In fact, the
> most unit museums are taken care of by enlisted personnel.
Not something that "Joe Soldier" will be particularly concerned about.
> Rangers are in the *minority* of airborne troopers. The 82nd Airborne
> Division and the rest of the XVIIIth Airborne Corps is a prime example.
Airborne Infantry units are separate from Infantry units.
> All US Army soldiers are taught to navigate, infantry even more so.
Orienteering 8-, as specified. Or Navigation 8-, take your pick (they are
the same skil as far as game mechanics go).
> If a soldier is a member of a rapid response unit (like the entire
> XVIIIth Airborne Corps)
This is not "Joe Soldier".
> If you are on active duty, the US Army certainly comes up more than 8- IRL.
But when on active duty you are not "subject to recall (reactivation)".
> A great many enlisted are married. some E-1s come in married and I'd
> venture that at least 50% of E-5 and above are married.
E-5 is not "Joe Soldier", the military is his career.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPHP56VRH7BJMxHAQFU7QP/YCIf1rOcApUEws7ZqLPvzuSjgEBusNOg
XYK7QKXjgH2Pmh2jSjhJBr2Nq+6aDFSk49qngfoHENVM9xZ9Cq4GzTwa1I74NC8q
a3jR2lWV3jQSzp2RVIkIIFSqd4ZzKTZbsPR7KHN+Yh4XofDVFZ09vt5g2nbA5iwK
6TF1bI19JTQ=
=ZA6z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:30:57 -0400
Lines: 25
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Goode, Jason writes:
> Actually, a teacher who is any good would also have a skill in teaching.
Methinks Jason missed where I pointed out that:
>> I mean, a teacher needs "Professional Skill: Teacher" to be able to
>> teach.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPHfZ6VRH7BJMxHAQEdjQP9En2DmuCUwB2bOROfh5uH2R8nK3anMiO0
OBc+4BzQBGV7AvOFNxJvfBURU3S8M8WL6YDTWGuOorApykeb7UDoQzyEp2k+yda+
FLIMfno1c10h7r1UW1UwaElVyKA3P6JF8AWA21WOpUw6mKV5fFiQNWa2U6xGp8e9
idV9Ava6wmU=
=bQyX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:37:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'd agree here, but I think the severity of it varies by field. For
> instance, I have a BS in Computer Science. I think the first two years
> were extremely valuable, but the last two (especially the senior level
> classes) were fairly worthless in practical terms...they delve too much
> into the "theory of the science" and aren't much use outside of academic
> circles.
And to those inventing the new ways a field or industry will move.
The practical is great for doing what is out there. The theoretical
allows you to change what is needed "out there".
> On the other hand, I have a minor in English. From my experience, the vast
> majority of the cirriculum is worthless from a job skill point of view.
> They spend far too much time having you read the "classics" and far too
> little time teaching you how to write. It's funny, because most of the
Um. And?
That _is_ what an English Degree is defined as. (I get mine in a
month.) The knowledge of the classics is the degree. Writing is a
secondary skill for an English Lit degree.
However, you've gotten enough experience in writing to be hugely
valuable in a writing field. A strong background in research, study, and
analysis makes a great foundation for going into law school . . . or many
other fields.
> writing that you do is non-fiction (essays, research papers, etc), but most
> of the writing you study is fiction (Shakespeare, etc). There is almost
> zero effort placed on teaching you how to write in the style that
> academians hold so high. My experience was that an English degree teaches
> you how to analyze writing, not how to write such material yourself (one
> does not beget the other).
Your last statement is so obvious as to be worthless. Actually,
Illinois College offers two English degrees -- Lit and Writing. Both need
both fields, but the former's main concentration is on reading and
analysing literature. The latter on writing of various forms, usually
creative. This includes Drama, Poetry, Short Stories, Rhetorical Writing,
Journalistic Writing, etc.
For the record, I'm getting a Lit degree. It has already earned
my an appointment to the Masters Program in English Lit at the University
of Oklahoma with a Teaching Assistantship. That's exactly what I needed
the degree to do.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:39:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Actually, a teacher who is any good would also have a skill in teaching.
Right. Add the PS: Teacher for the beaurocratic side, a skill in
the main and possibly minor subject.
Add a skill: Teaching based on PRE, similar to Oratory or
Persuasion or Conversation.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:41:15 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> And supporting characters would be in the same scenarios. They'll
> develop as the players do to provide a fluid world. I don't much like the
> sound of your cardboard silouette of a world.
We aren't talking about the world, we are talking about a game.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPJ6Z6VRH7BJMxHAQGxFwQAuSfW2uPz3HPVlebm0edXlaEweUzkQn6W
Arj28IUksKpLjdnBLf2Cvgx3ElWNnEdV8mGKOmmzsGu9ddutdxScHDK9SaPNVbwY
5lbKRVZghQJOm2MGXi0xl7sALxIErCLhqTvK0HNC/7q4Dl7rzxLPykpXV+WQBAu1
ioj4lSXnr0w=
=juN3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:42:23 -0400
Lines: 23
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> Um. No. Much of IQ _is_ how fast you can think. Some is what
> you know, but it often goes together.
You might want to check your BBB on this one, Tim, becuse it says otherwise.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPKLp6VRH7BJMxHAQHaVAQAh8Q8AussE/PECvzO23Z+rTINgH/2uzsq
kVPB9BWQTb5Gzk+G1Tb2FX2opA7ZgWWdgozPyb3EBIeA0/2AEtNblb4/xDBmYMKB
+wnasRkYtf42QwWE1SGXWsu4Wzjva+qsJwO7XabSat1P8kDVzYH1vYtUbK0TK64w
V3uUOKbT0ew=
=lqAG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:48:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'd personally say an average person is college educated, or trained in
> a profession.
Um. Based on my knowledge of what those I went to high school
with are up to, I'd have to disagree. The average man don't know much,
except perhaps how to stock the local Jewel/Osco or work the machinery at
the plant or wait tables.
> Besides, anyone with any real world experience can tell you
> that the average college grad knows less than the average trained mechanic in
> their relative professions.
That mechanic is another trained professional. And even he is
having problems with the newer cars -- they are being covered in the auto
mechanic schools.
And considering that most college grads go on to fields not
related to their degrees (directly related), I'd say you're pretty much
on.
> College is just to theoretical and not enough hands
> on to give any real skills beyond "KS: trivia related to desired profession,
> but not directly applicable."
Um, I'd disagree. I'd say College would give one at least one 11-
skill, possibly higher depending on how good the student was, at least one
foreign language, and a collection of 8- KSs, most quickly being
forgotten, but there to "be remembered" when XP is needed to be spent.
> I've seen it time and time again where a HS grad with 4 years in the
> army as an electrician can out perform a kid with a an engineering degree.
> However the kid with the degree can talk electronic theory and
> terminology circles around the veteran.
Yup. But those coming out with the great degrees will end up
defining what the future will hold. Maybe. Or they get into the real
world, keep the theoretical part where it is, and get useful.
> I'd make a HS grad with no training a 0 pointer. someone who'd been
> through a trade school, or graduate degree with no work experience yet a
> skilled normal (25 pointer).
Graduate degree? That'd be a bit higher.
> Then go from there. A doctorate with no work exp might also be a 25
> pointer, as the longer you stay in school, the more you loose touch with a
> few of your real world skills and knowledges.
Not really. You usually have to work your summers, giving all
sorts of possible PSs and KSs, mostly at the 8- level.
> All stats in Hero as far as I know use the 'every 5 worth is twice as
> good.' Know I know a person with a 150 IQ is more than twice as smart as a
> person with a 100 IQ. But I don't know by how much.
Hmmm. I'm not sure if INT would be the same or not. Seems kinda
likely.
> I used to believe my strength was low as well. Basing it off my old
> high school estimate of me vs. the jock types. But I'd say I'm a 10 now, with
> a skill level in strength rolls for certain tasks that I got good at in the
> military.
>
> Hero places the average at 10. So I'd use whatever X let the average
> adult do 100kg of X (or whatever close thing we can find) as the measurement.
I'd place myself at 12 or 13 based on being able to lift more than
average, but not a whole lot more. Much is based on my size.
> And some sub skills on certain districts or 'scenes' in some of those
> cities, like KS: Seoul Nightlife, both korean and expat versions. Or
> AK: Seoul tourist spots, palaces, museums, and temples 12-. :)
Adds up, don't it?
> > A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
> > something published, but not write it.
>
> KS: Writing?
Nah. With that you could teach it. Call it a new skill: Writing.
I'm not sure if it should just be 11- or be based on INT or PRE.
> Here's one for you: familiarity with using a weapon group, but not
> enough to cancel out all the penelties, yet more than someone with no clue.
Just buy a +1 OCV, only to partially remove the -2 unfamiliar
weapon penalty.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:48:45 -0500
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> PS:Writer, 11-
>
> A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
>something published, but not write it.
Apologies in advance for the rudeness to follow, but...
You are out of your tiny little mind. Writing is EXACTLY what PS: Writing
will help a person do. Any Professional Skill "gives the character the
ability to perform a certain profession." I'd have thought a person with
your better-than-average memory would have recalled that description. Why
are you so eager to create new Skills when the system has two generic Skill
groups (KS and PS) that were specifically designed to cover all this
stuff...Football(DEX-based), and now Writing(?-based).
If you want more than the ordinary ability to sell a writen work, PS:
Literary Agent might be one way to go. PS: Editor or KS: Publishing Houses
(so you know what they're looking for) would not hurt, and high EGO and PRE
are also helpful when you meet with agents, editors, publishers and other
potential industry contacts. Complementary Skills might, under some
circumstances, include Persuasion, Trading and Bureaucratics (as applicable
to the publishing industry, and if you don't think that's a bureaucracy,
you've never dealt with it). All of the above is strictly optional; PS:
Writer is all you need. If you want a better than 11- chance of making a
sale (because there *will* be negative modifiers in the current market),
spend a few extra points and improve your base roll.
Unlike some of you who speak from personal experience in such fields as
Food Service, I should admit at this point I am not a writer. My wife of
11 years is, however. She has written over 20 books (only 9 published so
far; the rest are making the rounds of publishers), plus a number of short
stories, some of which have appeared in The Dragon, Realms of Fantasy,
Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine, etc. She's been nominated for an Edgar Award
for Best Juvenile Mystery. Well, this is beside the point.
Bottom line: you appear in many cases to be tossing aside the basic
function of the Professional Skill, reducing it at best to the status of a
complementary roll for some new Skill you create off-hand.
Time to create that kill file at last (though there will be one person
ahead of you in that list).
Damon
----------------------------------------------
"Ah! Arrogance and stupidity in one package.
How efficient of you." -- Londo Molari
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:49:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
> Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
> haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
> were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
> Inc. was also a big player.
Well, I'm always up to pull Viper in. At least a minor incident
every other game. Genocide is being saved with only hints at what they
are up to, same for Demon. Terror, Inc is nice for a lighter villian
group. I've also gotten some use from the Crusher Gang and Grab.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:58:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I'd disagree on your INT estimates. As INT is differentiated only
> >by skill rolls, it should probably be looked at as extending easily to 30
> >for normals, considering that the age lim pushes it close to this. This
> >allows for much more significance to INT scores. I'd say Genius level and
> >above would have a 20+.
> >
> If you extend stats to 30 Normal Max, sure. Otherwise, the scale is
> compressed.
As others have pointed out, it's not the max. As so few do have a
130+ IQ, we could expect some extra expenditure. This is not your average
maximums. Otherwise, what's the difference between a 13- and a 17-?
> Based on the fact I'm out of shape and don't exericse, but I'm not
> seriously hindred in day-to-day to life;I have no trouble lugging stuff
> around, but it's more of a strain for me than for most of my peers. Or
> maybe I just bitch more than they do.
Hmmm. Based on an OK press and a really good squat and leg lift,
I'd give myself a 12 or 13.
> > You're a little less skilled than average?
> >
> Perhaps it ought to be lower. I trip over wrinkles in the force.
Um, yeah.
> >> COM:8
> >
> > Sure.
> >
> Gee, thanks.
I'm not gonna argue on a stat you're willing to judge at
(hopefully) a realistic level. I'd hate to think that this is an inflated
stat.
> > This would qualify, to me, as a "useless skill" that won't cost
> >you any points.
> >
> Fair enough, but it ought to be listed.
Sure. I'm working on a "Useless Skills" proposal right now.
This would allow the inclusion of some minor skills on the sheet
that wouldn't cost anything -- they're there for flavor.
I'm also working on an "Inactive Skills" proposal. These are
skills a character once had at whatever level, but have fallen out of
practice. They can be quickly re-picked up taking away a need for
training time when spending XP.
> > Fine. Where's the Computer Programing skill to go with it.
> >
> Computer Programming, 13-.
OK.
Though I'd require a language skill for the various languages.
Most "good" programmers would have no more than 1 or 2 points in these,
however. I'd give myself a 8- Computer Programming skill and 1 pt in
Pascal, COBOL, C, and Intel Assembler.
> There is no specific 'writing' skill, so what do you suggest? I'd say my
> writing ability is 11-, my knowledge of being a professional writer is a
> Familiarity, 8-.
Make a new skill. It's provided for in the book. Just decide if
it should be based on a stat like INT or PRE or just be 11-.
> > Maybe a WF:Knives, WF:Thrown, or something similar you've
> >overlooked?
> >
> No training in any of those. I do have handgun training and experience.
Ah. I'd have an "inactive skill" WF with .22s and the M-16 based
on some earlier training. I'd currently have a WF with Flying Discs
(Frisbees)
> History, 8-
> General Science 8-
> Philosophy, 8-
All KSs.
> PS:Salesman, 11-
No persuasion to go with it? Not many sales, huh.
> Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
> represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
> native speaker?)
Call it a KS in vocab or specialized vocab or even the language as
a whole.
> Most of my knowledge skills (history of comics, knowledge of RPGs,
> knowledge of anime, computer history, quote every line from Star Wars and
> Monty Python, etc) are subsumed under 'geek stuff'.
I'd expand those under free "useless skills".
I'd have an 18- in "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" for starters.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:00:35 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:46 PM 4/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: More supplement reviews
>Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>Here's a third list of supplements I'd appreciate getting reviews/opinions
>on. The twist here is that I already own some of these, but maybe have a
>problem with them and want to see how they are viewed by the overall
>audience.
>
>* Challenges for Champions
This is not one of Hero Games' -- nor Andy Robinson's -- best efforts,
but at the same time it's far from the worst. While the scenarios
themselves are generally rather weak and the NPCs mostly uninspiring,
there's an extremely helpful opening article on scenario design, and the
scenarios to help spark "ways of thinking" that just wouldn't occur to many
of us. And, despite what I say above, most of the scenarios are good
enough to run as a quick knockoff when you don't have anything else to do
(though some adjustment would be needed for many campaigns).
If this book were larger (and more expensive), I'd say pass on it.
Since it's one of the smaller (and less expensive) books in the Hero Games
line, however, I do recommend it.
>* Invaders from Below
When I look at how much I like a supplement, the question I ask myself
is, "What will this contribute to my campaign?" A good supplement will
furnish new rules, interesting characters (either new or updated),
background material, or inspiration for scenarios. Despite the fair amount
of work and thought that evidently went into it, this book provides none of
the above, at least from my viewpoint.
>* The Olympians
My take on this book is similar to IFB; however, I don't find it quite
as utterly useless. In fact, the only reason I find it as useless as I do
is because I have no plans on using the Greek gods in my campaign at any
level. It does, in fact, provide some material that I can use as
background, and I can see a couple of possibilities for individual
encounters. Your campaign could probably make better use of it than mine.
>* Champions Presents #1 and #2
Two decidedly above-average books.
CP1 is a trio of scenarios that are designed to be run back-to-back (not
in any particular order, though a recommended procedure is given).
Spectrum, by Scott Sigler, is more useful for the supervillain group it
provides than for the scenario itself (in fact, one of the scenarios on my
website uses them). The second, No News of a Thaw, is an odd little piece
by Phil Masters using Inuit mythology; I didn't care for it, but others'
opinions may differ. The third, Menace Out of Time, is a time-travel piece
by Dean and Dana Edgell, and suffers only from its lack of interaction with
the rest of the Champions Universe (as these all do).
In CP2, Stan West gives of MAVRIC; Timothy Keating treats us to Murder
in Stronghold, and Cliff Christiansen gives us COIL. That Stan is the
creator of CLOWN is reflected somewhat in his scenario about a
self-actualizing computer, though he makes good use of foreshadowing and
recurrence. Timothy's treatment of a murder mystery at Stronghold is
probably the best superhero mystery done to date. And as for Cliff's take
on COIL, well, it also shows that he's one of the co-authors of the widely
(and deservedly) lauded VIPER sourcebook. Would it help to say that I'm
making use of all three of these sections in the early stages of my campaign?
>* Pyramid in the Sky
This is another one of the books that is interesting to read even if you
never actually use it in a game. It's designed as three scenarios that
could be run separately, but are designed to be best run in sequence. It
starts with something just a notch above street-level, and gradually
escalates to the foiling of a horde of invading aliens. The street-level
villains and the aliens are really the most interesting parts of the book;
in fact, the two alien races shown would be fun additions for a
high-powered Star Hero campaign (after the fashion of Star Trek: Voyager,
which currently has to deal with Borg, Hirogen, and Species 8472). One
could also read it straight through and treat it like a novel; secrets and
surprises are well-timed in the narrative, revealing them to the
straight-through reader at about the same point that they'd be revealed to
the PCs.
>* Watchers of the Dragon
Speaking of reading straight through like a novel, this one is almost
literally exactly that. Is it a novella, a scenario book, or an enemies
book? Actually, it's a little of each, and I wish Hero Games would do more
books like it. (I hope to write one myself someday.) The NPCs make a good
selection of "Martial Arts Enemies" (with the occasional wizard, monster,
or battlesuit), and the novella describes Seeker's journey to the
Tournament of the Dragon (you know, that thing Green Dragon's been training
for practically since Champions was first printed). Appendices include the
rules of the tournament, a rundown of scenario hooks (related to the
Tournament and otherwise), lists of Oriental names, notes for converting
the characters to non-superpowered Dark Champions levels, and generic
martial arts thug and ninja write-ups. All in all, unless you just don't
like superheroic-level martial arts, I'd highly recommend this book.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu&>
Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:01:22 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a week,
will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis C Hwang [SMTP:dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:56 PM
> To: Stainless Steel Rat
> Cc: Champions
> Subject: Re: The Average man...
>
>
> I've assumed a sort of dead-lift/whole-body lift for the STR chart, since
> a 100-kg (220-lb) bench press would be way above "average"...
>
> --Dennis
> *************************************************************
> * dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
> *************************************************************
> * So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
> * DOS. *
> * *
> * --Izzy to Gabriel *
> * THE PROPHECY II *
> *************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:05:11 -0500
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> I'll kick myself, but, who's John Williams? If a famous conductor
>at the international level, you would be looking at more the 18- level
>then the 14- level.
Composers aren't as "visible" as actors or even directors, thus harder to
remember. John Williams has a career spanning several decades and well
over 100 composing credits including '60's TV series "Lost In Space", "Land
of the Giants", "Time Tunnel" and "Gilligan's Island"; a bit more recently,
the movie soundtracks for "Fiddler On the Roof", "Poseidon Adventure",
"Towering Inferno", "Earthquake", the "Jaws" films, the "Superman" movies,
"Close Encounters", "E.T.", the whole "Star Wars" series (including those
scheduled for release in 1999 through 2005), the "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
series and dozens more.
You may kick yourself now if you feel it's warranted.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:09:35 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Corporations
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:53 PM 4/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Corporations
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>Message text written by Bob Greenwade
>> For myself, I wouldn't. The only reason for that, though, is thI
>don't (yet) own any of the C:NM stuff. Once I've bought all the C:NM
>books, though (which I fully do intend to do), I could give you a
>comparison.<
>
>Well, the basic gist of the "60 pages about 30 things" section of the Bay
>City book is that they spend one page talking about a location, and a
>second page talking about a character associated with that location. I'm
>assuming that Corporations goes into a lot more detail than can be handled
>in two pages, though. Corporations is on my list of books to get, but it's
>not top priority. The ones at the top so far are Atlantis, Allies, and
>Enemies Assemble.
Actually, each corporation in Corporations is handled in a little under
two pages (on average), and only a couple include write-ups of specific
individuals.
>Just in a general sense and without ranking them or anything (unless you
>want to take the time to do so), what would you say are the best three to
>five 4E Champions supplements? Worst three to five?
I don't think I want to answer this question. My opinions on Champions
books tend to be rather mercurial, and my Top Five and Bottom Five lists
could change by the time I get done typing them. A few books (Bestiary,
Creatures of the Night, or Invasions: Target Earth, for instance) have been
on either list at any given time, and most of the time Alien Enemies is on
both simultaneously.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:12:02 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:15 PM 4/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Which published villains do you use?
>
>I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
>campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
>campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
>Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
>haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
>were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
>Inc. was also a big player.
My current cast of regulars include:
Card Shark
COIL
Cy-Force
Crusher Gang
Genocide
Headhunter
The Posse
PSI
VIPER
VOICE
Of course, all but three (Card Shark, the Crusher Gang, and VOICE) are
Hunters of someone, so their appearances are pretty easy to predict.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:16:28 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:31 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > Actually, a teacher who is any good would also have a skill in teaching.
>
> Methinks Jason missed where I pointed out that:
>
> >> I mean, a teacher needs "Professional Skill: Teacher" to be able to
> >> teach.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTPHfZ6VRH7BJMxHAQEdjQP9En2DmuCUwB2bOROfh5uH2R8nK3anMiO0
> OBc+4BzQBGV7AvOFNxJvfBURU3S8M8WL6YDTWGuOorApykeb7UDoQzyEp2k+yda+
> FLIMfno1c10h7r1UW1UwaElVyKA3P6JF8AWA21WOpUw6mKV5fFiQNWa2U6xGp8e9
> idV9Ava6wmU=
> =bQyX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and
> cover
> \ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.137
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:16:36 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id RAA09432
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Brian Wong
>1. Cardboard miniatures, blanks, siloettes (sp wrong, I failed my Int
check),
and fully drawn and colored of all sorts.
6. A whole book of siloettes (failed that Int roll again. :) ) for my less
art inclined players.
7. quicky scenerio books, showing how to take a basic thread and expand it
into an advneture, rather than the full adventure. Example of this
would be Challenges for Champions done even better. (I think, just
bought it, haven't read it yet.)<
These would be great. I hadn't thought of a book of silhouettes (actually,
I'd prefer a book of character sheets but with tons of different
silhouettes, so you could photocopy the one you want to use), but I'd love
to see that. Also, I would love to see more books along the lines of
Challenges for Champions, where you get lots of adventure ideas in one
book. This to me would be a lot more valuable than a book that was just
one adventure, even though each adventure idea wouldn't be as fleshed out.
>4. Champions Plus. Rules expansions, optional rules, and popular house
rules
put this one out on a one volume a year basis or something.
Collect rules from people's house games and present them for
everyone's perusal.<
I would suggest that each book should publish everything from the old book
(maybe revised), plus whatever new stuff came up in a year. The reason I
suggest this is because, once early issues become unavailable, you'll have
a split in the demographic between veteran players who know about Rule Y
and relative newbies that can only find out about it by talking to
veterans.
>2. Genre books (Fantasy Hero, Space Hero, Super Hero)
3. Sub genre books (like Golden Age heroes, Lands of Mystery, Dark
Champions)
5. Gm and Players screens, now of course, the players screen need not be a
stand up, but just a few pages of quick ref stuff.
9. Villian and Hero collections. Enemies and Allies books. Though I
disliked
allies as it lacked enough solo's and had too many teams for my
tastes.
I would want these to be single quick NPC's I could toss in on a
rainy
day. Or scavenge for parts, more or less, when building my own
NPC's.<
I'm not sure why these are on your wishlist, since they already exist. The
packet of charts that came with the GM screen makes a handy reference for
all players.
>>8. WorldBooks, Licenced lines. Marvel Hero, Conan Fantasy Hero, Expanding
Western Shores out to a full worldbook. San Angelo, etc...<<
To be honest, I think of the Hero System as strictly a Superhero system,
and I've been resistant to trying it for anything else (for example, when I
was shopping for a new fantasy system, I chose Earthdawn over Fantasy Hero
and others). However, these would probably be good ideas for the majority
of players who don't have this hangup. I'd be particularly interested in a
game and/or worldbook that did justice to the world of Conan...I'm one of
the few people who bought (and still own) the Conan RPG that TSR put out
years ago.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:20:15 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Adventure Idea
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:18 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, bobby farris wrote:
> Okay, on the 12 noon news I hear a report that the military
>loaded some napalm on a train to take it to be destroyed. Well, the
>company that was going to destroy it backed out of the deal and now they
>are not sure where the train is. They think it is somewhere in the New
>Mexico area.
>
> Is this a GM's plot or what?
It works for me.
There's almost always something going on in the news that could be
worked into an adventure scenario. Shelley has tied in the Branch Davidian
suicide into the background of PRIMUS, I'm working on ideas to tie the
Oklahoma City bombing into a VOICE plot, and I'm sure someone could blame
the recent rash of schoolyard shootings into something arranged by PSI. It
just takes a bit of imagination. (And yours is apparently healthy!)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:21:40 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
You know, based on your perception of Joe Soldier, I really must ask have
you ever been in the military? Strike that - I will just say that your
perception of Joe soldier is amazingly and completely unlike mine, or anyone
I every met, or soldiered with, or discussed the military with, etc.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:30 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > A rather significant percentage of soldiers do not come straight out of
> > high school. Even those that do, often have jobs in high school. And
> > this is a standard soldier - not a recruit.
>
> "Joe Soldier" is fresh out of basic and specialist training.
>
> > Infantry are trained in basic tactics in basic/AIT, with more training
> as
> > you ascend in rank, both through schools and OJT.
>
> 8- like I said.
>
> > Infantry do learn about the military and its history and its customs,
> > particularly if they want to pass any promotion boards. In fact, the
> > most unit museums are taken care of by enlisted personnel.
>
> Not something that "Joe Soldier" will be particularly concerned about.
>
> > Rangers are in the *minority* of airborne troopers. The 82nd Airborne
> > Division and the rest of the XVIIIth Airborne Corps is a prime example.
>
> Airborne Infantry units are separate from Infantry units.
>
> > All US Army soldiers are taught to navigate, infantry even more so.
>
> Orienteering 8-, as specified. Or Navigation 8-, take your pick (they are
> the same skil as far as game mechanics go).
>
> > If a soldier is a member of a rapid response unit (like the entire
> > XVIIIth Airborne Corps)
>
> This is not "Joe Soldier".
>
> > If you are on active duty, the US Army certainly comes up more than 8-
> IRL.
>
> But when on active duty you are not "subject to recall (reactivation)".
>
> > A great many enlisted are married. some E-1s come in married and I'd
> > venture that at least 50% of E-5 and above are married.
>
> E-5 is not "Joe Soldier", the military is his career.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTPHP56VRH7BJMxHAQFU7QP/YCIf1rOcApUEws7ZqLPvzuSjgEBusNOg
> XYK7QKXjgH2Pmh2jSjhJBr2Nq+6aDFSk49qngfoHENVM9xZ9Cq4GzTwa1I74NC8q
> a3jR2lWV3jQSzp2RVIkIIFSqd4ZzKTZbsPR7KHN+Yh4XofDVFZ09vt5g2nbA5iwK
> 6TF1bI19JTQ=
> =ZA6z
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
> \
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 17:26:15 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Goode, Jason writes:
> No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
> something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill to
fix a car, just as "PS: Electrician" is the skill to wire a house, just as
"PS: Surgeon" is the skill to perform surgery, just as "PS: Lawer" is the
skill to practice law, etc.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPUdZ6VRH7BJMxHAQHxlgQApFh9dXOgjRP+iIGkDuqnviMn+tXWt6cG
xVinw1trqVjYPm/C2RlvtB9p5Q+gOOUR/aMdyY7m1iad6K4NhFeR1JeI4DipIVZK
MmcHa0sH9Pumev1Q9+4Qeo/Jp41nzpk7FuD37UtMm6fsK7kYzPCR62wk5KecaBjV
bR7GriYah0c=
=Xz56
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mercury.sun.com from samuel.bell@eng.sun.com server @mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:28:56 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, ratinox@peorth.gweep.net
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-> From ratinox@peorth.gweep.net Tue Apr 14 14:25:17 1998
-> Goode, Jason writes:
->
-> > No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
-> > something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
->
-> I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
-> Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill to
-> fix a car, just as "PS: Electrician" is the skill to wire a house, just as
-> "PS: Surgeon" is the skill to perform surgery, just as "PS: Lawer" is the
-> skill to practice law, etc.
->
Rat: take a deep breath and read what he wrote again. He's just saying that
some teachers don't know how to teach. He's not saying anything about game
mechanics, he's just saying that some incompetent teachers are still getting
paid.
-Sam
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:30:26 -0700
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I have not used 'published' villains in any of my games -- the creation of
the villains is part of the fun! By the time you're done rewriting origins,
motivations, powers, etc, you might as well have created a new villain anyway.
Unless you're actually playing in a published universe, which is something
else I've never done.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:32:57 -0700
To: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:05 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>Hi. Anyone getting this?
I did. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:43:11 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:43 AM 4/14/1998 -0700, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Lizard wrote:
>
>> ...should have average stats -- straight 8-10, with maybe 1 or 2 stats at
>> 11. The rest of his 25 points should go to skills.
>>
>> Most of the sample 'average' characters have stats which are too high.
>>
>> Remember:Only 2% of the population has an IQ of 130+ (INT 13-14). 1/100th
>> of 1% has an IQ of 180+ (INT 18+). The same figures apply to physical stats
>> as well, or should.
>
>Well, I think this brings up an interesting point. Since the Hero
>System's "Normals Max Out At 20" rule isn't really hard-and-fast (just
>pay double), do "normals" really max out at 20? With relatively cheap
>stats like STR, INT, PRE, and COM, especially, it's not that expensive to
>create ostensible "normals" with stats above 20. This implies (to me)
>that normals with stats >20 are actually not overly unusual, given a large
>enough population.
>
>My take on it is that the 8-20 range represents the mean +/- 2SD of the
>hypothetical normal distribution for adult humans. This leaves a
>remaining 2.5% on either end to have values >20 or <8, and also expands
>the range of stats available to normals. (Of course, if I had my way,
>we'd also be using a stat/3-based skill system, so that more of the
>intervening numbers *mean* something, but that's a topic for another
>post...:)
This is, in my view, perfectly reasonable.
My "house rule" is that a character with NCM can spend up to a total of
40 points (after doubling) on Characteristics (including Running, Swimming,
Lightning Reflexes, etc.) above the listed maxima. When one spends that
much, one has spent as much as one would have spent without the
Disadvantage. Approached another way, just figure that the extra points
spent on higher Characteristics (and such) is actually a reduction in the
Disadvantage value.
Fuzion takes a similar view; Characteristic values of up to 7 (which is
about 20 in Hero terms) is the most that the majority can expect, but you
don't get into truly superhuman levels until you get past 10 (which
translates to about 30).
>What about BODY? BODY is actually one of the stats with which I have a
>great deal of conceptual trouble. In game terms, it seems analogous to,
>essentially, Hit Points. But what does that translate to in real life
>(tm)? Mass? Will to Live? Damage Resistance? Physique?
>
>I generally end up thinking of BODY as overall mass (kind of like
>Chaosium's SIZ attribute), but this usually leads to my characters
>rarely buying up BODY, since I don't picture them as significantly larger
>than average.
The table on page 176 of the HSR gives typical BODY values according to
mass. An average man, as can be expected, has 10 BODY at 100kg. An
unliving object of the same mass has -3 BODY (so a corpse would have 7
BODY). A complex machine has -5 BODY (so an android would have 5 BODY).
But obviously there's more to it than that, since people (and androids, now
that I think about it) have widely varying amounts of BODY, both higher and
lower (though mostly higher, at least for PCs and major NPCs).
In fact, though I'm not finding in in the HSR, I think it was an earlier
edition of Champions that specifically stated that BODY represented not
only mass but will to live, general health, and other factors. So your
assessment is quite correct.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:57:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
> >something published, but not write it.
>
> Apologies in advance for the rudeness to follow, but...
I'll accept the quite necessary apologies.
> You are out of your tiny little mind. Writing is EXACTLY what PS: Writing
> will help a person do. Any Professional Skill "gives the character the
> ability to perform a certain profession." I'd have thought a person with
> your better-than-average memory would have recalled that description. Why
> are you so eager to create new Skills when the system has two generic Skill
> groups (KS and PS) that were specifically designed to cover all this
> stuff...Football(DEX-based), and now Writing(?-based).
Because I don't feel it covers certain professions and skills,
especially ones similar to examples in the book.
The book includes Acting, Persuasion, and Oratory as possible
creative expression skills. However, they won't give one the ability to
hold a job in these areas. Mechanic is a skill totally separate from PS:
Mechanic -- both are needed for a mechanic, IMO.
As writing is a means of expression, I feel that it should
probably be a PRE based skill. Not all writers writing for a living will
have it, just the good ones. I'd argue it's an everyman skill at the 8-
level, actually. Now there are plenty of good writers who are quite
unable to be published. They aren't "professionally" writers and don't
have the PS.
Football is probably best handled with specialized combat skills,
actually. PS: Football player would work for many things. Not for
throwing, and probably not for catching, however. Same for tackling and
eluding the tackle. Heck, even blocking. Those are all combat skills.
> If you want more than the ordinary ability to sell a writen work, PS:
> Literary Agent might be one way to go. PS: Editor or KS: Publishing Houses
> (so you know what they're looking for) would not hurt, and high EGO and PRE
> are also helpful when you meet with agents, editors, publishers and other
> potential industry contacts. Complementary Skills might, under some
Oh, sure. But someone who is just good at writing (the Writing
Pre-based skill) will not be able to cover these areas that would be
covered by even an 8- PS: Writer.
> circumstances, include Persuasion, Trading and Bureaucratics (as applicable
> to the publishing industry, and if you don't think that's a bureaucracy,
> you've never dealt with it).
I won't argue. I've had friends try to get published, and some of
the works were good.
> All of the above is strictly optional; PS:
> Writer is all you need. If you want a better than 11- chance of making a
> sale (because there *will* be negative modifiers in the current market),
> spend a few extra points and improve your base roll.
That's for making the sale. It is no suprise that alot of what's
out there is shlock written with very little skill, but it was published.
Totally different skills.
> Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine, etc. She's been nominated for an Edgar Award
> for Best Juvenile Mystery. Well, this is beside the point.
Not really. It's an example that she's better than average at
writing at at making a living as a writer. Someone with PS: Journalist
would be able to make a living as a journalist, but wouldn't be anything
special as a writer.
> Bottom line: you appear in many cases to be tossing aside the basic
> function of the Professional Skill, reducing it at best to the status of a
> complementary roll for some new Skill you create off-hand.
Not necessarily. Just in certain things. If you want to abstract
football, you're gonna need something more than a PS that will cover all
of the everyday. Like I said, combat skills work best.
And writing is a form of expression beyond the ability to make
money doing it. Just as, I believe, Teaching deserves it's own PRE-based
skill that is _not_ a PS. I've known teachers who can't teach worth crap
who have no problem making a living in the teaching field.
> Time to create that kill file at last (though there will be one person
> ahead of you in that list).
Now, now. Even after that venemous reply, I'm not gonna killfile
you. I find these debates nice.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:01:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Um. No. Much of IQ _is_ how fast you can think. Some is what
> > you know, but it often goes together.
>
> You might want to check your BBB on this one, Tim, becuse it says otherwise.
It mentions thinking quickly which, I argue, is pretty much
necassary to be brilliant. You can know a lot without a high INT stat (or
a high IQ, for that matter) but not be brilliant in any way. The
description is vague enough to support either of us, though.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:02:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I'll kick myself, but, who's John Williams? If a famous conductor
> >at the international level, you would be looking at more the 18- level
> >then the 14- level.
Actually, I got it just before reading your response. I knew the
name was familiar.
> You may kick yourself now if you feel it's warranted.
Yup. And definately better than 14-.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:02:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > And supporting characters would be in the same scenarios. They'll
> > develop as the players do to provide a fluid world. I don't much like the
> > sound of your cardboard silouette of a world.
>
> We aren't talking about the world, we are talking about a game.
You make no sense. A game is contained in a game world. They go
hand in hand. If the world doesn't change, things get pretty stiff.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:04:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a week,
> will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
And that is a good deal more than what the "average" does.
Expecially when that average is the average adult, not just male.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:05:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
> something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
Correction. Anyone who has been to school of any type most likely
knows this, and anyone who has been to High School definately knows this.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:10:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Reply-To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
> > something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
>
> I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
> Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill to
> fix a car,
Nope. That last is Mechanics, actually. You'd need both skills.
The PS will get you by with some minor skills.
> "PS: Surgeon" is the skill to perform surgery, just as "PS: Lawer" is the
> skill to practice law, etc.
Right, though the former won't go over very well without a SS to
go with it, and perhaps a surgery skill (debateable). The later will need
some KSs and, to be successful in court, a persuasion or oratory type of
thing. And both would need licenses, of course.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwu.ericy.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwu.ericy.com ip 208.196.3.162
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:21:07 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
So what do I need to buy for my new character ?
A professional comic book artist with a degree from the Art Institute,
and former worker in a commercial art shop.
Curt Hicks
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:29:52 -0400
Lines: 34
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
>> You might want to check your BBB on this one, Tim, becuse it says
>> otherwise.
> It mentions thinking quickly which,
It does not "mention" it, it states outright that that is the primary
aspect of the characteristic.
> I argue, is pretty much necassary to be brilliant.
> You can know a lot without a high INT stat (or a high IQ, for that
> matter) but not be brilliant in any way.
And you can know very little but still accidentally come up "brilliant". A
lucky die roll is all that is required to be brilliant.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPjX56VRH7BJMxHAQEZrQP/S3JgsY5nFgWFGPNsP5ZK9FLxryVdoDmf
ApSrkOgtp3Mfe7ZvYIZq/O0zpsmKswHpovfL/uC/DvvdQJJPJwLNEfj2kXzsW1nc
hh6Ki+X84YhFNBbcZduF4mpfKyvSSM1D7icvJzlPyfUxur3vpHFGxGf5iVZ/4K9C
lvGmijKPuyw=
=Plza
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:30:58 -0400
Lines: 25
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sam Bell writes:
> Rat: take a deep breath and read what he wrote again. He's just saying
> that some teachers don't know how to teach.
So what? Having the job does not mean one is qualified for it, it just
means you passed whatever exam was handed to you. An incompetant teacher
will have something less than an 11- PS: Teacher skill.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPjn56VRH7BJMxHAQEi3AP/dKdJ536THGNZM4cFd59gVwZJ/6qgt2R8
u23rCFap5E3h18nrdSRhvZE3GnG9m7DWJNyiuN7mBcXw2e2PT7/iVOA7uSys1vv2
9t6YSCIQ7n/AN48VViBV75SrA85rgqa2qjwjeF768eMgRTVDriKzdXUMO0QgMjsD
Gcvd4UyS/hY=
=HVbv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwu.ericy.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwu.ericy.com ip 208.196.3.162
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:39:33 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote:
> >* Champions Presents #1 and #2
>
> Two decidedly above-average books.
> CP1 is a trio of scenarios that are designed to be run back-to-back (not
> in any particular order, though a recommended procedure is given).
Minor nit-pick. If I remember properly,
they gave suggestions for running them back-to-back or inter-
leaving the scenarios. IMO, that's not the *same* as the scenarios being
*designed* to be run back-to-back.
I actually ran No News of a Thaw. Did more foreshadowing than typical with
my scenarios. I think the scenario went over OK, if not being really
enthusiastically received. Worse part when I ran it was that it's a good
example of a "Oh wow, look at all the cool scenery, etc." and my player that
was most into that didn't make the session.
Curt
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:44:47 -0400
Lines: 45
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Goode, Jason writes:
> You know, based on your perception of Joe Soldier, I really must ask have
> you ever been in the military? Strike that - I will just say that your
> perception of Joe soldier is amazingly and completely unlike mine, or
> anyone I every met, or soldiered with, or discussed the military with,
> etc.
I think the problem is not our perceptions of the military, but in how to
model them with the game mechanics. You are building "Joe Soldier", the
average grunt, as a low-powered heroic-level charcter, not the normal
person that he really is, putting far more points into what should be
"passing familiarities" than are necessary. This is the same issue that I
have with the 200-point "street cop".
As far as game mechanics go, the modern "specialist" is a slightly better
than average normal person holding down a relatively normal job (PS:
whatever his specialty might be, plus one or two other supporting skills),
and with the addition of basic combat training (weapon familiarities, some
combat skill levels, etc.) and a few other skills to round him out. These
extras are generally "paid" with the associated disadvantages of serving in
the military. In other words, "Joe Soldier" is a 25-point normal with
15-25 points of extras and 15-25 points of corresponding disadvantages.
When Joe Soldier decides to go career, or OCS, or an elite unit, he will
start picking up a lot of stuff. If he can hack it, he might actually come
out as a genuine 50-point character. A very few might even qualify as
full-blown heroic scale characters.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPm356VRH7BJMxHAQEhmAQAuUxyCDsc5i9HI+UPCVqn3+Jb+l2kROAB
04gghFDBxKkOXXbYhw2iiYj51zuft80ms5A7SiwkAzoe6TIgra/7j11ZHoOLIPJH
nxMaKiIdAcQF351Ojn/KZA/FB/4X+t4mzsreoPBZ7OE6tkRVgkDTXifbzX4X2sSF
yzxwwTx3C3s=
=wOpx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mailhub.iastate.edu from rharriso@iastate.edu server @mailhub.iastate.edu ip 129.186.1.102
X-Sender: rharriso@pop-2.iastate.edu
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:52:30 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Robert Harrison <rharriso@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:18 AM 4/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
>swing lines.
>
If you're talking about Rorschach's line gun, you should also give it 2d6 RKA :)
________________________________________
Robert L. Harrison
Department of Entomology
411 Science II
Iowa State University
Ames, IA 50011
Phone: (515) 294-3963
Fax: (515) 294-5957
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:53:05 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Curt Hicks writes:
> So what do I need to buy for my new character ?
> A professional comic book artist with a degree from the Art Institute,
> and former worker in a commercial art shop.
PS: Artist 11- at the very least. The degree might be worth a 1 point
perq. Experience in the comercial art shop might justify a higher than
base level PS: Artist, as well as a passing familiarity with how a business
is run.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTPozp6VRH7BJMxHAQHJzQP/SIKFDo+c5Vrg1dTAGRd1Vn/5N3JSf0rU
F32tS+vi0OTN2U3xyLS7RDeGic8Oomjg+Do3Abnbs4rLU4hpudrs53JlNdKEPTDE
7gt2LOcHKyu/+xzRfcbcnRgayKMul4Dh2061jSRSLUHOL8kX5Vkhflwj5624uN7f
l5HYtGA9rdM=
=hsJI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:59:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> So what do I need to buy for my new character ?
> A professional comic book artist with a degree from the Art Institute,
> and former worker in a commercial art shop.
PS: Comic book artist will be fine if you're not particularly
good. I'd add a KS: Art and a KS: Art History for your degree as well as
a skill Artist. The skill would be probably be 11- for 3, +2 per one.
Artistry is more than PRE, I'd say.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:07:11 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 08:52 PM 4/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: The Average man...
>> > A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
>> > something published, but not write it.
>>
>> KS: Writing?
>
> Nah. With that you could teach it. Call it a new skill: Writing.
>I'm not sure if it should just be 11- or be based on INT or PRE.
I think it would probably be most representative to make Writing a
stat-based Professional Skill. Let it variably be based on INT, PRE, or
EGO, depending on the writing style and lifestyle of the individual (in my
case, I think I'd go with EGO; my better stuff really comes out by force of
will, a phenomenon that's extremely hard to explain to someone who hasn't
experienced it).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:08:11 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I'd tend to argue that PS: Police Officer would cover all of those Skill
that a police officer would need no more than Familiarity with, like KS: Civil
Law and Weaponsmith, just as part of the "package." If a full-fledged Skill
is needed, then that would probably need to be taken separately. >>
An interesting thought. However, based on the description of the PS in the
Hero System rules I would have to, of course, disagree.
<< "Peace, Officer." ;-] >>
<LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:13:54 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
True. I was simply recalling my most recent experiences. Many teachers
either learned their field yet remain unskilled at effectively passing that
knowledge to others, or have become disenchanted and are just marking time
and collecting a paycheck. Sad, really.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim R. Gilberg [SMTP:trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 6:06 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Champions
> Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
>
>
> > No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to
> teach
> > something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
>
> Correction. Anyone who has been to school of any type most likely
> knows this, and anyone who has been to High School definately knows this.
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
> -"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:20:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Rat: take a deep breath and read what he wrote again. He's just saying
> > that some teachers don't know how to teach.
>
> So what? Having the job does not mean one is qualified for it, it just
> means you passed whatever exam was handed to you. An incompetant teacher
> will have something less than an 11- PS: Teacher skill.
I'd have to disagree. Being unable to teach means you have to be
better at "looking good". They'd have the 11- PS to get and keep the job,
and nothing in "Teaching".
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo22.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo22.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.66
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:21:56 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional skill has
another applicable skill than the player must have that skill. For example:
Player purchases PS: Computer Programmer. In this case the PS does NOT
help the player perform the skill, for that they need Computer Programing.
However, the skill does help the player know where to look for jobs, the names
of other computer programmers, and other such trivialities. >>
Sounds good to me. In fact, that's the way I see PS also. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access5.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access5.digex.net ip 205.197.245.196
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:27:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Gadget Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Robert Harrison wrote:
> At 12:18 AM 4/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >How would people write up a line gun? For firing of climbing lines, not
> >swing lines.
> >
>
> If you're talking about Rorschach's line gun, you should also give it
> 2d6 RKA :)
How'd you guess?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:32:10 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:59 PM 4/14/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> It's unfortunate for me that my tastes in these matters run
>> exactly counter to Hero's marketing philosophies. I wouldn't mind
>> having a self-contained published adventure module now and then
>> for a one-shot break from my own work, and I appreciate genre
>> or period support materials, but I'm not much interested in
>> published characters or organizations.
>
> I agree here. Here's what my dream come true of Hero Products would be:
>
>1. Cardboard miniatures, blanks, siloettes (sp wrong, I failed my Int check),
> and fully drawn and colored of all sorts.
Someone else made mention of silhouette Cardboard Heroes. I vote for
both options: regular Cardboard Heroes for published NPCs, and silhouettes
for PCs and house NPCs.
>2. Genre books (Fantasy Hero, Space Hero, Super Hero)
>
>3. Sub genre books (like Golden Age heroes, Lands of Mystery, Dark Champions)
From what I understand, we'll be getting plenty of these on both sides
of the Hero/Fuzion line. Of course, what comes out in Hero Plus depends in
large part on what people want to write.
>4. Champions Plus. Rules expansions, optional rules, and popular house rules
> put this one out on a one volume a year basis or something.
> Collect rules from people's house games and present them for
> everyone's perusal.
Basically, revive the Hero System Almanacs. I'd deem that a good call,
though it'd probably be distributed under Hero Plus.
>5. Gm and Players screens, now of course, the players screen need not be a
> stand up, but just a few pages of quick ref stuff.
Basically, a 5th Edition GM's screen. Hey, Mark & Steve -- here's
something to follow up the 5th Edition Rulebook with, like you did the 4th
Edition! (And I'll *definitely* buy it if you package it like you did the
4th Edition one!)
>6. A whole book of siloettes (failed that Int roll again. :) ) for my less
> art inclined players.
Someone else mentioned a book of character sheets with different
silhouettes, and I think I'd prefer that. A disk of silhouettes for
Creation Workshop character sheets would be cool too.
>7. quicky scenerio books, showing how to take a basic thread and expand it
> into an advneture, rather than the full adventure. Example of this
> would be Challenges for Champions done even better. (I think, just
> bought it, haven't read it yet.)
A couple of those would be cool, though I think the Hero Guys have been
talking about publishing "quick scenarios" from their website once they
have an electronic commerce system in place. Advice on building good
scenarios would be a good addition to the 5th Edition Hero System Rulebook,
though, and I think Andy Robinson's words in C4C would be a good starting
place.
>8. WorldBooks, Licenced lines. Marvel Hero, Conan Fantasy Hero, Expanding
> Western Shores out to a full worldbook. San Angelo, etc...
I don't think we can look forward to much in the way of licensed
products in the Hero System; most are taking Fuzion. However, there's been
plenty in the works in the way of world books in Hero: Bright Futures is
already out, and a fantasy world (whose title I forget offhand -- Broken
Kingdoms?) was in the final stages at last mention. I think there's one
more of each (fantasy and sci-fi) in the earlier stages of development as
well.
As for Western Shores, something was mentioned about that some time ago,
but it may have been abandoned.
My heroic-level campaign book, Chaos Theory (imagine Mulder and Scully
as played by Leslie Nielson and Carol Kane), is still in the earliest
stages of planning, and while I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do
with it, I do intend on getting it published in some form, almost certainly
through either Hero Plus or GRG.
>9. Villian and Hero collections. Enemies and Allies books. Though I disliked
> allies as it lacked enough solo's and had too many teams for my tastes.
> I would want these to be single quick NPC's I could toss in on a rainy
> day. Or scavenge for parts, more or less, when building my own NPC's.
More Enemies books? Maybe reworkings of the Enemies books by origin
type (aliens, high tech, mutants, etc.), but I don't think we need a whole
lot beyond that. Any other characters (new or updated) should probably be
limited to Ultimate books, geographic sourcebooks, and similar works.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:33:07 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:41 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>Tim R Gilberg writes:
>
>> And supporting characters would be in the same scenarios. They'll
>> develop as the players do to provide a fluid world. I don't much like the
>> sound of your cardboard silouette of a world.
>
>We aren't talking about the world, we are talking about a game.
I got the impression that he was talking about a game world. Or do the
characters in your game operate in a vacuum?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:36:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
To: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: New Rules: Inactive Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
OK. I mentioned a proposal for some new rules for Inactive
Skills. Here it is.
When designing a character, one has the option of noting Inactive
Skills (signified by an "(IA)" after the skill name). Such skills can be
at whatever level is desired, though subject to GM approval.
These skills are not normally usable. When a character attempts
to use this skill in any more than a one-shot sorty of thing (GM
discression), it is considered to be at one level below where it is
purchased at in terms of skill rolls. When thak skill is used, the
character is assumed to be in the process of refamiliarizing him or
herself with the skill. He/She must either buy the skill to it's full
point cost with on-hand XP or spend at least 1 XP per session until it is
paid for. At this time it will be considered to be once again at its full
level of ability. Even if immediately paying the XP, it will not be at
its full level until the next session.
As an option, a GM can keep track of what skills of a character
are not being used. If a significant amount of time has passed, the GM
can rule that the skill is Inactive and must be re-practiced for a session
before full effectiveness is reached. Until that time, it is at one level
lower.
The levels:
Regular Skill Inactive Skill
Familiarity 8- No roll, just usefull for no
training needed for purchase
11- 8-
14- or higher 11-
So, what does everyone think? This could be a great way to add
color to a character, fitting the "I learned how to do that a long time
ago" thing so often seen in comics.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:38:29 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:39 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
> Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote:
>
>> >* Champions Presents #1 and #2
>>
>> Two decidedly above-average books.
>> CP1 is a trio of scenarios that are designed to be run back-to-back (not
>> in any particular order, though a recommended procedure is given).
>
>Minor nit-pick. If I remember properly,
>they gave suggestions for running them back-to-back or inter-
>leaving the scenarios. IMO, that's not the *same* as the scenarios being
>*designed* to be run back-to-back.
You are quite correct. I missed my PS: Writing Roll and expressed
myself poorly there. :-]
>I actually ran No News of a Thaw. Did more foreshadowing than typical with
>my scenarios. I think the scenario went over OK, if not being really
>enthusiastically received. Worse part when I ran it was that it's a good
>example of a "Oh wow, look at all the cool scenery, etc." and my player that
>was most into that didn't make the session.
I think I'd recommend that people go along with this assessment of the
scenario, than with mine (which comes from just generally looking it over;
I've never actually run it).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:44:19 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:26 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Goode, Jason writes:
>
>> No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
>> something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
>
>I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
>Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill to
>fix a car, just as "PS: Electrician" is the skill to wire a house, just as
>"PS: Surgeon" is the skill to perform surgery, just as "PS: Lawer" is the
>skill to practice law, etc.
Actually, Rat, I can tell you from firsthand experience that it is you
who are utterly and completely wrong. However, I think it's because you're
addressing a point other than the one which Jason is making.
I've been a student for several people who held the professional
position of "Teacher" (so that they could put that on their Form 1040), but
who didn't have enough actual skill in teaching to warrant even an 8- Roll.
I've also dealt with several people who could teach just about anything to
just about anyone, but who weren't professional teachers (or in a couple of
cases even professionals in the field in which they were giving instruction).
Having a license to teach and thereby being a "professional teacher" is
quite different from having the skill to do it.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:46:20 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:30 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Sam Bell writes:
>
>> Rat: take a deep breath and read what he wrote again. He's just saying
>> that some teachers don't know how to teach.
>
>So what? Having the job does not mean one is qualified for it, it just
>means you passed whatever exam was handed to you. An incompetant teacher
>will have something less than an 11- PS: Teacher skill.
That is precisely what Jason was saying when you said that he was
"utterly and completely wrong."
And isn't that point different than the question of whether a
Professional Skill is needed to actually perform the job (the point you
raved on about)?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:49:59 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:05 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
>> I'll kick myself, but, who's John Williams? If a famous conductor
>>at the international level, you would be looking at more the 18- level
>>then the 14- level.
>
>Composers aren't as "visible" as actors or even directors, thus harder to
>remember. John Williams has a career spanning several decades and well
>over 100 composing credits including '60's TV series "Lost In Space", "Land
>of the Giants", "Time Tunnel" and "Gilligan's Island"; a bit more recently,
>the movie soundtracks for "Fiddler On the Roof", "Poseidon Adventure",
>"Towering Inferno", "Earthquake", the "Jaws" films, the "Superman" movies,
>"Close Encounters", "E.T.", the whole "Star Wars" series (including those
>scheduled for release in 1999 through 2005), the "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
>series and dozens more.
You forgot that he also directed and conducted the Boston Pops Orchestra
for a few years (between Arthur Fiedler and Keith Lockhart).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:52:36 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:42 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Tim R Gilberg writes:
>
>> Um. No. Much of IQ _is_ how fast you can think. Some is what
>> you know, but it often goes together.
>
>You might want to check your BBB on this one, Tim, becuse it says otherwise.
I didn't think there was even a mention of IQ in the BBB at all. Where
is it?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:54:33 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:01 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Goode, Jason wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dennis C Hwang [SMTP:dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:56 PM
>> To: Stainless Steel Rat
>> Cc: Champions
>> Subject: Re: The Average man...
>>
>>
>> I've assumed a sort of dead-lift/whole-body lift for the STR chart, since
>> a 100-kg (220-lb) bench press would be way above "average"...
[reverse snip]
>Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a week,
>will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
With weight training, though, I think I'd tend to give a person a STR of
13-15.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:55:45 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Ah. I see your point. Still, even the "minor" jobs while not on patrol
would earn some XP, though much of it would be "earmarked". >>
Hmm.. perhaps, but certainly a lot less so than working in patrol. An
officer working in the jail certainly would have limitations as to what skills
they would be able to increase (in game terms). But there are justifications
for more than people might think. Case in point; Streetwise.
"WHAT? How could a jailer increase Streetwise??"
Simple. The jailer deals with dozens (probably hundreds or even thousands)
of what...? Inmates! Criminals! Bad guys! Street urchins! And who knows the
streets better than the bad guys? ;) Keep in mind that not all inmates are
"anti-social" when it comes to cops and/or jailers. Some want to try to earn
brownie points, and will give up info to a floor officer in order to assure
they get to work in the laundry or kitchen, or get the extra 10 minutes of rec
time... or want to switch cells because their bunk mate wants to take the term
literally! <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:06:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Yeah, officers and career enslited, not Joe Soldier doing his basic tour of
duty.>>
Hey, rat. Out of curiosity, how long were you in the military as an enlisted
person? I'm serious. Were you ever?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo wnsc_mail.centraltx.net from ronald@centraltx.net server root@mail.centraltx.net ip 208.135.247.48
From: "Ron Abitz" <ronald@centraltx.net>
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Joe anything on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:10:33 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Why do I keep seeing people equaling adverage with rookie/beginer.
The adverage person of a career/job would have some on the job experince.
For exmple the adverage soldier would be a PFC or a new SPC not a PVT right
out of AIT.
And at a guess (not having any personal experince) the adverage patrol
officer would have 3 to 5 years on the job (maybe more). For those that
think that a average anything is a rookie. What percetage of these types of
organizations do you think are rookies 75-80?
Ron Abitz
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:11:49 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< "PS: Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the
skill to
fix a car >>
That's funny... I thought the skill to fix a car was Mechanics. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:13:56 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Now let me say something that I am very loathe to say. However, you have
earned it. You are an idiot. Well, okay, maybe not, but you do have a
serious problem with understanding other people's points of view. Your way
is the only right way, and you can not accept that there are different
styles that are all equally valid.
I said nothing about game mechanics. The last 24 hours on this list has
very plainly demonstrated that there are numerous playing styles and
interpretations of the same BBB that we've all read. A lot of this revolves
around the level of detail and 'reality' that an individual or group desires
and enjoys. That's fine and we all have different opinions on the topic.
You seem to go very light detail, whereas Mark (@ GRG) goes to very great
detail. I find myself somewhere in the middle. My last comment was a
simple observation about teachers and teaching that I doubt that anyone on
this list can honestly disagree with. There are Professional Teachers who
can make money, deal with the bureaucracy, publish papers, write books, fill
out the paperwork, etc., but can't impart one microgram of knowledge to
their students. One the other hand, I have had teachers who have opened my
eyes to worlds of knowledge, yet lost their jobs because they couldn't play
the game of institutional bureaucratics. I, myself, have often been told
that I am excellent at teaching and that I would make a wonderful teacher.
Yet, it is not my profession, not will it be in the foreseeable future. I
also know professional electricians who I wouldn't trust to change the
batteries in a flashlight, yet they seem to do very well. Programmers who
are respected by their bosses and make a ton of money, yet couldn't code
their way out of a bag. I can go on and on, but the point remains clear and
true: Being able to make a living at a profession and being skilled at what
that profession says you should be able to do are NOT the same thing.
Personally, I don't care what level of detail you (or Mark, for that matter)
prefer, because I am always going to go with what works best for
entertaining me and my players. My cops will have more skills than yours,
but less than Mark's. My goal is provide an afternoon of enjoyment by
telling a good story - WITHOUT REGARD TO POINTS. However, if we are having
a discussion about a 'Realistically Detailed' (as Mark refers to the
concept) teacher, then you must acknowledge that PS: Teaching and Skill:
Teaching are not the same thing and should be regarded separately.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 5:26 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to
> teach
> > something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
>
> I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
> Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill
> to
> fix a car, just as "PS: Electrician" is the skill to wire a house, just as
> "PS: Surgeon" is the skill to perform surgery, just as "PS: Lawer" is the
> skill to practice law, etc.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTPUdZ6VRH7BJMxHAQHxlgQApFh9dXOgjRP+iIGkDuqnviMn+tXWt6cG
> xVinw1trqVjYPm/C2RlvtB9p5Q+gOOUR/aMdyY7m1iad6K4NhFeR1JeI4DipIVZK
> MmcHa0sH9Pumev1Q9+4Qeo/Jp41nzpk7FuD37UtMm6fsK7kYzPCR62wk5KecaBjV
> bR7GriYah0c=
> =Xz56
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include
> an
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell
> to
> \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mailhost.infi.net from asahoshi@nr.infi.net server @mailhost.infi.net ip 208.131.167.6
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 20:16:27 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
cc: "Champions" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Tim R. Gilberg trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu 4/14/98 6:01 PM
>
>> > Um. No. Much of IQ _is_ how fast you can think. Some is what
>> > you know, but it often goes together.
>>
>> You might want to check your BBB on this one, Tim, becuse it says otherwise.
>
> It mentions thinking quickly which, I argue, is pretty much
>necassary to be brilliant. You can know a lot without a high INT stat (or
>a high IQ, for that matter) but not be brilliant in any way. The
>description is vague enough to support either of us, though.
How fast you think has nothing to do with IQ. IQ is mearly a benchmark
noting about how effective your, primarily linguistic, skills are relative
to other people your same age. IQ varies day to day and certainly quite
a bit over the years. It is not a real thing, just a current appearant
benchmark (for that matter, "intelligence" isn't much better). At any
rate,
sense IQ is specifically stated as being, in essence, mental speed it
sould
not be even remotely equated to IQ.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:25:38 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Bottom line: you appear in many cases to be tossing aside the basic
> function of the Professional Skill, reducing it at best to the status of a
> complementary roll for some new Skill you create off-hand.
Here comes another clarification.
Professional Skill allows you to use your practical skills to engage in a
profession. Thus, having a Mechanics skill at 13- makes one a wonderful
mechanic. But without the PS: Mechanic skill, your character hasn't the first
clue how to engage in the profession -- no experience with certification,
paperwork, billing, work-order rotation, etc. Sure he can spin a mean wrench,
but he's got no practical (employed) work experience.
Here's an example from the other end of the spectrum: the Unscrupulous
Mechanic. He runs a great business, advertises, has a lot of customers (at
least one time each <G>), etc. He has, _in our example_, a PS: Mechanic of
14-, but he sucks as an actual mechanic, having a Mechanics skill of 8-. He's
in it for the money, and copuld care less about quality.
Does everyone see how this works? The *other* skill (be it a KS or some
other listed skill, like Mechanics, Paramedic, etc.) may be required to know
how to perform a specific skill. The PS skill is required to hold a job in the
related profession and be employable in that profession (a professional pilot,
a cop, a doctor, a writer). The PS confers the knowledge of the "industry", if
you will, not the training to get there. Having one skill does not preempt the
necessaity to have the other.
Being a "licensed" to be a private investigator by the state does not confer
the necessary skills to actually consudt investigations.
Of course there is the caveat that folks can declare that PS covers *all*
necessary skills in their game, but that is not the way it is laid out in the
Hero System rule book. :)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:29:08 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< So what do I need to buy for my new character ? A professional comic book
artist with a degree from the Art Institute, and former worker in a commercial
art shop. >>
Do you want the suggested *detailed* write-up, or just the 25-point version?
<LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:31:20 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:22 PM 4/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
>Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
>> > Rat: take a deep breath and read what he wrote again. He's just saying
>> > that some teachers don't know how to teach.
>>
>> So what? Having the job does not mean one is qualified for it, it just
>> means you passed whatever exam was handed to you. An incompetant teacher
>> will have something less than an 11- PS: Teacher skill.
>
> I'd have to disagree. Being unable to teach means you have to be
>better at "looking good". They'd have the 11- PS to get and keep the job,
>and nothing in "Teaching".
This would be the way to do it if there was a separate
(non-Professional) Skill for Teaching. While I support such an addition
(good idea, Tim!), it's far from a done deal in the system.
For the system as it currently stands, the teacher without the PS would
probably just need Familiarity with Acting (so it looks like he's doing a
good job) and Forgery (to make his papers look like they're legitimate -- a
stretch of a use for that Skill, but what else are you going to use?).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:33:42 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:08 PM 4/14/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< I'd tend to argue that PS: Police Officer would cover all of those Skill
>that a police officer would need no more than Familiarity with, like KS:
Civil
>Law and Weaponsmith, just as part of the "package." If a full-fledged Skill
>is needed, then that would probably need to be taken separately. >>
>
> An interesting thought. However, based on the description of the PS in the
>Hero System rules I would have to, of course, disagree.
I dunno. Looking at the given example of Plumbing, I think it could be
easily argued that PS: Plumbing gives Fam: Mechanics (albeit a somewhat
limited form) as part of the "package."
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:35:44 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Oh, I wasn't meaning to imply anything about what the average person does.
Just an interesting observation that sort of jumped to the forefront of my
mind when I read that message about strength.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim R. Gilberg [SMTP:trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 6:05 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Champions
> Subject: RE: The Average man...
>
>
> > Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a
> week,
> > will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
>
> And that is a good deal more than what the "average" does.
> Expecially when that average is the average adult, not just male.
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
> -"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:39:26 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I think the problem is not our perceptions of the military, but in how to
model them with the game mechanics. >>
In other words he's never been a soldier or a cop. ;D
<< You are building "Joe Soldier", the average grunt, as a low-powered heroic-
level charcter, not the normal person that he really is, putting far more
points into what should be "passing familiarities" than are necessary. This
is the same issue that I
have with the 200-point "street cop". >>
But if "Joe Soldier" or "Joe Cop" are, indeed, "heroic level" people in the
real world why do you argue against portraying them that way in the Hero
System? Why do you insist on declaring that all NPCs must be built on X points
and no more?
<< In other words, "Joe Soldier" is a 25-point normal with 15-25 points of
extras and 15-25 points of corresponding disadvantages. >>
You do not acknoledge the hard work, training and development that goes into
a professional soldier, much less a professional peace officer, doctor or any
other profession. You *can* build professional NPCs on very few points, but
you don't *have* to.
<< When Joe Soldier decides to go career, or OCS, or an elite unit, he will
start picking up a lot of stuff. >>
Joe Soldier re-enlists. Gains 25 EPs! <LOL>
<< A very few might even qualify as full-blown heroic scale characters.>>
Depending on your definition of Heroic Level (75 Pt characters?) I would
argue that most soldiers are already there. The average soldier can trash your
average comci book artist in Champions. Oh, no... wait a second. I'm confusing
my topics here... :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:40:15 -0700
To: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: New Rules: Inactive Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:36 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> OK. I mentioned a proposal for some new rules for Inactive
>Skills. Here it is.
[Actual proposal snipped for space]
> So, what does everyone think? This could be a great way to add
>color to a character, fitting the "I learned how to do that a long time
>ago" thing so often seen in comics.
While I like the theory, I'm not sure I grasp the mechanics.
Suppose Captain Glory finally gets around to using his Archaeology
degree, and goes out on a dig in England to uncover Camelot (something that
happened in actual play, by the way). How many points would he have needed
for an 11- Roll beforehand? How does he change the Skill from Active to
Inactive? Does the Roll change, or the cost?
Please clarify. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, David B Stallard wrote:
> Here's a third list of supplements I'd appreciate getting reviews/opinions
> on. The twist here is that I already own some of these, but maybe have a
> problem with them and want to see how they are viewed by the overall
> audience.
> * Watchers of the Dragon
Watchers is a mixed bag in my opinion. It is an interesting idea for a
Enemies Book/Adventure, what with the 'novelized' description of Seeker's
search for the story behind the Tourney of the Dragon, and I agree it
should be done more often.
The characters themselves range from the pretty cool (David LoPa--- uh, I
mean Dr. Yin Wu) to the downright absurd (Maya). The point totals on a
lot of these guys is a killer, expect to see a lot of 350-400 point
characters. OTOH: There are scads of 250 to 275 pointers.
There is a nice selection of characters from across the world, although
the non-Asians in the book get only passing mention (with the exception of
Nightwind).
There is a nice selection of martial arts types too, although I disagree
with the way in which some of these guys are written up (too many Damage
Classes are handed out).
Cutting back point totals would be pretty easy in all cases, so the
numbers for the characters can be a bit misleading.
My biggest complaint is not enough 'source' and too much 'book'. Okay, so
the story line is nice, but I would have liked to seen more on the SFX of
Eastern Magic (rahter than a listing of spells and magic items) and more
Oriental creatures would have been nice (Yin Wu *is* supposed to have a
small army of monsters). The name list in the back is nice, although the
ninja-templates are pretty silly (the 900 point Disgustingly Powerful
Ninja is rather funny). OTOH: the 900 point ninja does give a lot of
useful skill selections to pick from.
All-in-all? A decent book. I do use it a bit, mainly as a refrence for
my own characters.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:44:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Nah. With that you could teach it. Call it a new skill: Writing.
> >I'm not sure if it should just be 11- or be based on INT or PRE.
>
> I think it would probably be most representative to make Writing a
> stat-based Professional Skill. Let it variably be based on INT, PRE, or
> EGO, depending on the writing style and lifestyle of the individual (in my
> case, I think I'd go with EGO; my better stuff really comes out by force of
> will, a phenomenon that's extremely hard to explain to someone who hasn't
> experienced it).
Well, my point was that there was a lot more to getting published
than being a good writer. That's something totally separate -- a burst of
creative composition. "The spontaneous overflow of emotion recollected in
tranquility," to quote Wordsworth.
And note that being able to write a good gaming book may be more a
matter of PS: Writer than a Creative Skill: Writing. Hmmm. That's a good
new category -- Creative Skill. It could subsume Acting, add Musical
Expression, etc.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:51:34 -0500
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>Composers aren't as "visible" as actors or even directors, thus harder to
>>remember. John Williams has a career spanning several decades and well
>>over 100 composing credits including '60's TV series "Lost In Space", "Land
>>of the Giants", "Time Tunnel" and "Gilligan's Island"; a bit more recently,
>>the movie soundtracks for "Fiddler On the Roof", "Poseidon Adventure",
>>"Towering Inferno", "Earthquake", the "Jaws" films, the "Superman" movies,
>>"Close Encounters", "E.T.", the whole "Star Wars" series (including those
>>scheduled for release in 1999 through 2005), the "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
>>series and dozens more.
>
> You forgot that he also directed and conducted the Boston Pops Orchestra
>for a few years (between Arthur Fiedler and Keith Lockhart).
Whoever first mentioned him correctly identified Williams as both, but
since I'm less familiar with him in that capacity I addressed only his
career as a composer. I could certainly be wrong here -- wouldn't be the
first time today -- but I thought he'd be more familiar through that body
of work than as a conductor.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:08:05 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
No, our problem is that you don't seem to understand that the root of this
was a guy trying to model a *realistically accurate* typical soldier in the
US Army. Any *realistically accurate* human will be far more than a 25
point character. You also seem to fail to understand Joe Soldier means the
typical soldier (specifically Infantry in this case) in the entire US Army,
not a new recruit with 13 weeks of training (Basic and AIT are combined for
an 11B.)
On the military: it is very obvious that you either never spent any time in
the military, or weren't paying any attention if you did. For example, you
said to another guy that airborne infantry is not infantry. You couldn't be
more wrong if you tried. Let me tell you how you get airborne infantry.
You take a recruit. Send him to 11B school. Then you send him to airborne
school. Ta-da! The only difference between the two is how they get to the
battlefield. Paratroopers jump in from 800 feet, and gropos walk/ride.
Rangers are not elite infantry. They have a completely different mission.
Etc, etc.
If you don't know the topic, then fine. Go with PS: Soldier. It's your
game. Don't, however, argue how to model a *realistically accurate*
soldier with someone who has spent time as both enlisted and as an officer.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 6:45 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > You know, based on your perception of Joe Soldier, I really must ask
> have
> > you ever been in the military? Strike that - I will just say that your
> > perception of Joe soldier is amazingly and completely unlike mine, or
> > anyone I every met, or soldiered with, or discussed the military with,
> > etc.
>
> I think the problem is not our perceptions of the military, but in how to
> model them with the game mechanics. You are building "Joe Soldier", the
> average grunt, as a low-powered heroic-level charcter, not the normal
> person that he really is, putting far more points into what should be
> "passing familiarities" than are necessary. This is the same issue that I
> have with the 200-point "street cop".
>
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
> \
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:29:39 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 08:25 PM 4/14/98 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
>> Bottom line: you appear in many cases to be tossing aside the basic
>> function of the Professional Skill, reducing it at best to the status of a
>> complementary roll for some new Skill you create off-hand.
>
> Here comes another clarification.
>
> Professional Skill allows you to use your practical skills to engage in a
>profession. Thus, having a Mechanics skill at 13- makes one a wonderful
>mechanic. But without the PS: Mechanic skill, your character hasn't the first
>clue how to engage in the profession -- no experience with certification,
>paperwork, billing, work-order rotation, etc. Sure he can spin a mean wrench,
>but he's got no practical (employed) work experience.
Okay, before I go and stick my *other* foot in my mouth today, let me get
something straight. Did I not recently concede that licensing and
certification was a Perk separate from the PS? Are you not one of the
people who convinced me of that? Are you not now saying that certification
is part of the PS?
> Here's an example from the other end of the spectrum: the Unscrupulous
>Mechanic. He runs a great business, advertises, has a lot of customers (at
>least one time each <G>), etc. He has, _in our example_, a PS: Mechanic of
>14-, but he sucks as an actual mechanic, having a Mechanics skill of 8-. He's
>in it for the money, and copuld care less about quality.
He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. He sounds like a businessman (in
the sense that he might have paid more attention to his Business Admin
courses than his auto shop courses). In the example above, *any*
unscrupulous business owner who is good at advertising and generating a
customer base could be subtituted. That would mean that PS: Plumber, PS:
Dentist and PS: Accountant are all interchangeable if the apply to
unscrupulous businessmen. Thus, none of these Skills are worth a damn
except as a generic ability to do business; under the system you (and some
others) describe, you seem to have to buy Plumbing (Background?), Dentistry
(Background?), Accounting (INT?) in order to do the job...despite the fact
that the rules pretty clearly state that the PS allows you to do the job.
In some cases, buying a complementary KS is appropriate. Nowhere is it
even hinted that you should create new job-related Skills in order to
perform the basic PS functions.
What you are describing doesn't sound like PS: Mechanic to me, it sounds
like Business Sense, presumably a Background Skill, which measures how good
a businessman you are regardless of your chosen field.
> Does everyone see how this works? The *other* skill (be it a KS or some
>other listed skill, like Mechanics, Paramedic, etc.) may be required to know
>how to perform a specific skill. The PS skill is required to hold a job in
the
>related profession and be employable in that profession (a professional
pilot,
>a cop, a doctor, a writer). The PS confers the knowledge of the
"industry", if
>you will, not the training to get there. Having one skill does not preempt
the
>necessaity to have the other.
If any special knowledge of the industry is needed, separate from the
knowledge of how to do the job, you can buy KS: <The Industry>, allow the
PS to cover the basic job functions, and not need to buy a separate,
made-up Skill.
> Being a "licensed" to be a private investigator by the state does not
confer
>the necessary skills to actually consudt investigations.
Again, I thought we'd established that you needed Perk: P.I. License,
separate from PS: Private Investigator in order to be certified to do the
job. If that's true, all your statement above says is that the Perk
doesn't confer any job-related skills. I'm not suggesting it does, I'm
saying the PS does. Not every P.I. will be as good as every other, whis is
why you can buy the PS at 11-, 12-, 13- or whatever suits your level of
ability.
> Of course there is the caveat that folks can declare that PS covers *all*
>necessary skills in their game, but that is not the way it is laid out in the
>Hero System rule book. :)
Agreed. If that *were* the way it was laid out, each individual PS would
be all-inclusive within its field and you might never need a complementary
Skill roll.
However, the Hero System rule book does explicitly state "Whereas Knowledge
Skills give the character knowledge of how or why something works, a
Professional Skill gives the character the ability to do it...a person with
PS: Plumbing might not understand the intricacies of water pressure and
water flow friction, but he could fix a broken pipe." It doesn't say the
Professional Plumber will know how to advertise. It doesn't say he'll know
how to select an advantageous location for his shop. It doesn't say he
knows how to competitively price his services. It says he can fix a broken
pipe.
Now, it looks to me that what you are saying about certifications and
Professional Skils today is different from what you said yesterday or the
day before. It also appears to me that you, Tim and a handful of others
are blatantly ignoring the description of PS, which I've quoted in part
above. I have already been a flaming idiot today, though, and make
allowance for the possibility that there is something I'm not seeing here.
Please educate me. Show me something in the rules that (a) indicates that
a PS does *not* cover basic job functions for any PS, and (b) a suggestion
that new Skills will need to be created by GMs to cover these inexplicable
omissions that have managed to persist through every edition of the Hero
rules to date.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from dpawtows@access.digex.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Equipment
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:35:24 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> gravity. The question is, outside of a Supers campaign why would this
> matter? Am I wrong in thinking that it would be okay and not unbalancing
> to just say "fine your ship has artifical gravity"?
Players can e endlessly creative. If you give them something like
gravity control for free, you may then have problems when the pirate
boarding party that was supposed to be a key to your plot becoming
helpless when a PC engineer glues them to the deck with ten G's.
Or somebody else rigs up a tractor beam/grave-cannon/hovercraft/etc
out of the ability that the GM didn't anticipate.
Heck, a major peeve of mine with "Star Trek" is that the Federation
completely overlooks a lot of the *really* neat things one could do
with the gadgets they display (curiously enough, the things they overlook
tens to be the things that would drive the SFX budget thru the roof :).
Daniel Pawtowski
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:36:38 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Skills and setting their levels (was Re: Knights)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
At 07:51 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
>>>Composers aren't as "visible" as actors or even directors, thus harder to
>>>remember. John Williams has a career spanning several decades and well
>>>over 100 composing credits including '60's TV series "Lost In Space", "Land
>>>of the Giants", "Time Tunnel" and "Gilligan's Island"; a bit more recently,
>>>the movie soundtracks for "Fiddler On the Roof", "Poseidon Adventure",
>>>"Towering Inferno", "Earthquake", the "Jaws" films, the "Superman" movies,
>>>"Close Encounters", "E.T.", the whole "Star Wars" series (including those
>>>scheduled for release in 1999 through 2005), the "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
>>>series and dozens more.
>>
>> You forgot that he also directed and conducted the Boston Pops Orchestra
>>for a few years (between Arthur Fiedler and Keith Lockhart).
>
>Whoever first mentioned him correctly identified Williams as both, but
>since I'm less familiar with him in that capacity I addressed only his
>career as a composer. I could certainly be wrong here -- wouldn't be the
>first time today -- but I thought he'd be more familiar through that body
>of work than as a conductor.
It depends on what circle of artistic endeavor you're more familiar with
-- movie and TV scores, or PBS. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo attach1.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @attach1.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.81
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Body for the average man
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
---Brian Wong wrote:
>
> After all, if body=mass, overweight people would be nigh
> unstoppable. :)
>
Actually... we are.
So there. NYAH!
===
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from dpawtows@access.digex.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:43:30 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
AverageMan:
75% Damage Reduction, +20 PD/ED, Only vs 'unusuall' damage.
Averageman is immune to the mighty blasts of Dr. Destroyer, but has to
be very careful when crossing the street.......
Daniel "Hey you! LOOK OUT FOR THAT BUS!!" Pawtowski
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:45:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> > > No. Being a professional teacher is not the same as knowing how to teach
> > > something to someone. Anyone whose been to college knows this.
> >
> > I do not say this often: you are utterly and completely wrong. "PS:
> > Teacher" is the skill to teach, just as "PS: Auto Mechanic" is the skill to
> > fix a car,
>
> Nope. That last is Mechanics, actually. You'd need both skills.
> The PS will get you by with some minor skills.
The 'Mechanic' skill is posessed by any back-yard auto mechanic - my
father, for instance, would probably have it at a decent level. It covers
fixing cars, and that's it.
PS: Mechanic would cover: ordering parts from NAPA, operating the cash
register, probably operating some of the 'professional-level' machinery,
how to handle warranty stuff, how to do auto & emissions inspections, etc.
So yeah, they'd be two different skills, and any good professional
mechanic is going to have both.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:48:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: New Rules: Inactive Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> While I like the theory, I'm not sure I grasp the mechanics.
I'll try to explain.
> Suppose Captain Glory finally gets around to using his Archaeology
> degree, and goes out on a dig in England to uncover Camelot (something that
> happened in actual play, by the way). How many points would he have needed
> for an 11- Roll beforehand? How does he change the Skill from Active to
> Inactive? Does the Roll change, or the cost?
A skill taken as Inactive, for a starting character, is _FREE_.
However, as soon as it is attempted to be used in any way regularly
(beyond the one-time plot point, "Gee, I remember a way out of this mess
from my days as a Rutabega Salesman!") it requires the expenditure of XP
to get it to whatever level it was bought at. This could get a character
in XP trouble quick, as they will never be able to spend it freely if
they're always buying off Inactive Skills.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:53:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional skill has
> another applicable skill than the player must have that skill. For example:
>
> Player purchases PS: Computer Programmer. In this case the PS does NOT
> help the player perform the skill, for that they need Computer Programing.
> However, the skill does help the player know where to look for jobs, the names
> of other computer programmers, and other such trivialities. >>
>
> Sounds good to me. In fact, that's the way I see PS also. ;)
Hey, wow, my area. This is even better than 'Mechanic' and 'PS: Mechanic'
that I just commented on.
Computer Programming: Hacking code. Lots of people have this. I got it
in college. What I /didn't/ have when I entered the workforce was:
PS: Computer Programmer, which covers a lot of the 'procedural' stuff - in
my case, how to use source control and bug tracking software, some
familiarity with how the company's design process works, how the
departments interact with each other, etc.
Arguably, that skill should be PS: Computer Programmer for (Company), but
that might be getting a bit /too/ specific.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:10:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
> Okay, before I go and stick my *other* foot in my mouth today, let me get
> something straight. Did I not recently concede that licensing and
> certification was a Perk separate from the PS? Are you not one of the
> people who convinced me of that? Are you not now saying that certification
> is part of the PS?
Certification is a perk separate from the PS.
Knowing how to /get/ certification is part of the PS.
See the difference?
<unscrupulous mechanic snipped>
> He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. He sounds like a businessman
<snip>
> That would mean that PS: Plumber, PS:
> Dentist and PS: Accountant are all interchangeable if the apply to
> unscrupulous businessmen.
Not at all. Someone with PS: (Unscrupulous) Plumber would have no idea
how to fill out a tax form for a certain investment, and someone with PS:
(Unscrupulous) Dentist wouldn't know the first thing about where to order
the cheapest pipes, what kind of tools he needs, etc.
> Nowhere is it
> even hinted that you should create new job-related Skills in order to
> perform the basic PS functions.
I generally use this rule of thumb: if the skill i or can have a
significant impact on the game, it deserves to have more detail. Thus,
Mechanic gets split off from PS: Mechanic, but I'd probably leave PS:
Plumber as one skill.
Unless I were running 'Bathroom HERO', that is.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:14:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: 0 END DI
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> Anyone here know the offial answer to this problem?
> If DI is bought 0 END, do you need to pay the END cost of the STR it grants?
Yes.
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:17:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> This would be the way to do it if there was a separate
> (non-Professional) Skill for Teaching. While I support such an addition
> (good idea, Tim!), it's far from a done deal in the system.
> For the system as it currently stands, the teacher without the PS would
> probably just need Familiarity with Acting (so it looks like he's doing a
> good job) and Forgery (to make his papers look like they're legitimate -- a
> stretch of a use for that Skill, but what else are you going to use?).
How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
would impart no actual ability to teach.
Or, this would be a good place to use PS: Teacher and KS: Teaching - the
KS would be possessed by people who could impart knowledge to their
students well, and the PS by people who were good at the other aspects of
a teaching career.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:24:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
> This would be the way to do it if there was a separate
> (non-Professional) Skill for Teaching. While I support such an addition
> (good idea, Tim!), it's far from a done deal in the system.
So we need to add an entry to the skill section called "Skill"as a
catch all, as using PS for the catch-all is a kludge.
As is, Heromaker supports the addition of new skills, and I've
always allowed it in my campaign.
> For the system as it currently stands, the teacher without the PS would
> probably just need Familiarity with Acting (so it looks like he's doing a
> good job) and Forgery (to make his papers look like they're legitimate -- a
> stretch of a use for that Skill, but what else are you going to use?).
Good points. This would be a case of a great place for a new
skill. Teaching is a valuable skill -- for heroes as well. How else are
you gonna train effectively your sidekick. Otherwise you'll run into all
sort of problems. (Well, you'll run into problems anyway, but that's not
important.)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:40:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
> He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. He sounds like a businessman (in
> the sense that he might have paid more attention to his Business Admin
> courses than his auto shop courses). In the example above, *any*
> unscrupulous business owner who is good at advertising and generating a
> customer base could be subtituted. That would mean that PS: Plumber, PS:
> Dentist and PS: Accountant are all interchangeable if the apply to
> unscrupulous businessmen. Thus, none of these Skills are worth a damn
Untrue. Mechanic is a skill specifically noted as separate from a
PS, however. Certain others, like acting and computer programming, are
the same way. Certain other professions have enough of a difference from
being skilled in the aspects of the job and what is actually done --
Singing, Writing, and Teaching are good examples. Also, this would
support a parallel provided by acting's treatment in the rules.
Some, like Plumber, are covered fine by the PS. I'd say food
service, bartending, accounting, banking, carpentry, bee keeping, (add
your own, I'm sure you can think of some) would work fine with only the
PS, though some KSs would help a lot. For example, most bar tenders have
PS: Bartender. Some have a KS: Mixed Drinks, but not all -- from my
experience.
> except as a generic ability to do business; under the system you (and some
> others) describe, you seem to have to buy Plumbing (Background?), Dentistry
> (Background?), Accounting (INT?) in order to do the job...despite the fact
> that the rules pretty clearly state that the PS allows you to do the job.
Allows you to perform basic activities of the job, different from
skillfully performing. Some work fine, but Dentestry would require at
least a SS: Dentestry and (IMC) a Dental Work Dex-based skill.
> In some cases, buying a complementary KS is appropriate. Nowhere is it
> even hinted that you should create new job-related Skills in order to
> perform the basic PS functions.
Not job related skill per se, but skills that may or may not be
used by someone with that job. A skill, Writer, would be used by
PS:Novelist, PS: Journalist, PS: Speechwriter, etc. Look at the example
of Acting vs PS: Actor.
> What you are describing doesn't sound like PS: Mechanic to me, it sounds
> like Business Sense, presumably a Background Skill, which measures how good
> a businessman you are regardless of your chosen field.
More to it than that, as every type of business is different. The
PS allows you to operate within the field and, in some cases, perform your
work duties.
> If any special knowledge of the industry is needed, separate from the
> knowledge of how to do the job, you can buy KS: <The Industry>, allow the
> PS to cover the basic job functions, and not need to buy a separate,
> made-up Skill.
But the PS by nature will include some basic knowledge of the
industry -- enough to work within it, anyways. Why are you so against
making new skills -- it's needed for any game system, IMO, and Champions
allows about the most leeway.
> Again, I thought we'd established that you needed Perk: P.I. License,
> separate from PS: Private Investigator in order to be certified to do the
> job. If that's true, all your statement above says is that the Perk
> doesn't confer any job-related skills. I'm not suggesting it does, I'm
> saying the PS does. Not every P.I. will be as good as every other, whis is
> why you can buy the PS at 11-, 12-, 13- or whatever suits your level of
> ability.
But much of your PI work will be covered by Deduction and
Investigation. (The last is a book skill, right? Or was it from Dark
Champs.) Also add Concealment and Shadowing. These skills will not come
with the PS. The PS will allow you to set up shop, find customers, and do
the _basic_ parts of the above tasks.
> However, the Hero System rule book does explicitly state "Whereas Knowledge
> Skills give the character knowledge of how or why something works, a
> Professional Skill gives the character the ability to do it...a person with
> PS: Plumbing might not understand the intricacies of water pressure and
> water flow friction, but he could fix a broken pipe." It doesn't say the
> Professional Plumber will know how to advertise. It doesn't say he'll know
> how to select an advantageous location for his shop. It doesn't say he
> knows how to competitively price his services. It says he can fix a broken
> pipe.
However, it also states it will allow working in the field, per
se. With the examples of professions with separate (BBB) skills, we have
a precident for certain professions needing more than the PS.
> Please educate me. Show me something in the rules that (a) indicates that
> a PS does *not* cover basic job functions for any PS, and (b) a suggestion
> that new Skills will need to be created by GMs to cover these inexplicable
> omissions that have managed to persist through every edition of the Hero
> rules to date.
Um. Skills have been added with every edition as well in almost
every suppliment. Some are obviously not SS, KS, or PS -- these are just
plain new skills.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:44:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
> How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
> administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
> would impart no actual ability to teach.
>
> Or, this would be a good place to use PS: Teacher and KS: Teaching - the
> KS would be possessed by people who could impart knowledge to their
> students well, and the PS by people who were good at the other aspects of
> a teaching career.
But a KS doesn't give one ability, it gives one knowledge. And
the study of teaching (Pedantics?) is a knowledge all of its own. This is
a place for a new PRE-based skill, based off of Acting, Conversation,
Oratory, etc.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Sakura <jeffj@io.com&> Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:49:30 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
I could live with that, though because I run a median detailed campaign, I'd
want a few other skills and attributes that seemed to be possessed by every
good teacher that I've experienced.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sakura [SMTP:jeffj@io.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:17 PM
> To: Champions Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >
> > This would be the way to do it if there was a separate
> > (non-Professional) Skill for Teaching. While I support such an addition
> > (good idea, Tim!), it's far from a done deal in the system.
> > For the system as it currently stands, the teacher without the PS
> would
> > probably just need Familiarity with Acting (so it looks like he's doing
> a
> > good job) and Forgery (to make his papers look like they're legitimate
> -- a
> > stretch of a use for that Skill, but what else are you going to use?).
>
> How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
> administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
> would impart no actual ability to teach.
>
> Or, this would be a good place to use PS: Teacher and KS: Teaching - the
> KS would be possessed by people who could impart knowledge to their
> students well, and the PS by people who were good at the other aspects of
> a teaching career.
>
> J
>
> "One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
> To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Sakura <jeffj@io.com&> Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:57:01 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
Good rule.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sakura [SMTP:jeffj@io.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:10 PM
> To: Champions Mailing List
> Subject: Re: The Average man...
>
>
> I generally use this rule of thumb: if the skill i or can have a
> significant impact on the game, it deserves to have more detail. Thus,
> Mechanic gets split off from PS: Mechanic, but I'd probably leave PS:
> Plumber as one skill.
>
> Unless I were running 'Bathroom HERO', that is.
>
> J
>
> "One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
> To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:58:49 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: 0 END DI
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@sysabend.org"
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Anyone here know the offial answer to this problem?
If DI is bought 0 END, do you need to pay the END cost of the STR it grants?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:11:29 -0500
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
><unscrupulous mechanic snipped>
>
>> He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. He sounds like a businessman
><snip>
>> That would mean that PS: Plumber, PS:
>> Dentist and PS: Accountant are all interchangeable if the apply to
>> unscrupulous businessmen.
>
>Not at all. Someone with PS: (Unscrupulous) Plumber would have no idea
>how to fill out a tax form for a certain investment, and someone with PS:
>(Unscrupulous) Dentist wouldn't know the first thing about where to order
>the cheapest pipes, what kind of tools he needs, etc.
Tax forms and parts procurement weren't part of Mark's unscrupulous example:
"He runs a great business, advertises, has a lot of customers (at least one
time each <G>), etc. "
This is not PS: Mechanic (or Plumber or Dentist or Accountant); it's PS:
Entrepreneur.
>> Nowhere is it
>> even hinted that you should create new job-related Skills in order to
>> perform the basic PS functions.
>
>I generally use this rule of thumb: if the skill i or can have a
>significant impact on the game, it deserves to have more detail. Thus,
>Mechanic gets split off from PS: Mechanic, but I'd probably leave PS:
>Plumber as one skill.
I appreciate your input here, but it only describes your house rules.
What's at issue isn't how useful general mechanical ability is relative to
plumbing expertise, but whether or not a standard PS, as written, covers
the basic job-related tasks of its profession. I contend that it does, and
that this is clearly stated in the rules under the description of PS.
Several other people have stated that PS isn't sufficient to enable a
character to do the basic job tasks. A few people have simply tried to
state this as obvious fact; most people have tried to give some kind of
rationale, or at least examples of their viewpoint, but so far I haven't
any of these people back up their position with anything that's actually
*in* the rules.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:14:18 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
Hmm...good point. I don't know "how to teach", nor have I studied
education. I just know that people tell me that I teach well. I guess a KS
wouldn't do it for a realistic level of detail.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim R. Gilberg [SMTP:trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:44 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Champions Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
>
> > How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
> > administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
> > would impart no actual ability to teach.
> >
> > Or, this would be a good place to use PS: Teacher and KS: Teaching - the
> > KS would be possessed by people who could impart knowledge to their
> > students well, and the PS by people who were good at the other aspects
> of
> > a teaching career.
>
> But a KS doesn't give one ability, it gives one knowledge. And
> the study of teaching (Pedantics?) is a knowledge all of its own. This is
> a place for a new PRE-based skill, based off of Acting, Conversation,
> Oratory, etc.
>
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
> -"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
> Depending on your definition of Heroic Level (75 Pt characters?) I would
>argue that most soldiers are already there. The average soldier can trash your
>average comci book artist in Champions. Oh, no... wait a second. I'm confusing
>my topics here... :D
Maybe, but Joe Lumberjack or Joe Trapper would clean up on either of them.
Wilderness folk are tough, oy vey...;-). For example, my cousin, who skipped
a chainsaw off a tree, into her leg, through chainmail pants. Way cool
scar...That's right, HER. Nowadays she works for the Ministry of the
Environment, directing firefighting efforts in the summer, and animal
control in the winter...did I mention the packs of wild dogs? Makes soldier
boys look sissy by comparison - and she tells me stories about the tough
people she's met :-) :-) :-).
Oh, and not all comic book artists are pushovers. Fred Perry (Gold Digger)
in particular was a soldier before pursuing his current career...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
>> * Watchers of the Dragon
>
>Watchers is a mixed bag in my opinion. It is an interesting idea for a
>Enemies Book/Adventure, what with the 'novelized' description of Seeker's
>search for the story behind the Tourney of the Dragon, and I agree it
>should be done more often.
>
>The characters themselves range from the pretty cool (David LoPa--- uh, I
>mean Dr. Yin Wu) to the downright absurd (Maya). The point totals on a
>lot of these guys is a killer, expect to see a lot of 350-400 point
>characters. OTOH: There are scads of 250 to 275 pointers.
Agreed. WotD presented a 'mixed bag' of characters - from the barely more
than starting PC all the way to what a highly experienced 'super' martial
artist would be.
>There is a nice selection of characters from across the world, although
>the non-Asians in the book get only passing mention (with the exception of
>Nightwind).
Fleur De Lis; but yeah, you're right. But any martial arts book is likely to
be mostly Asian (genre). A fencer would have been nice...
Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
>There is a nice selection of martial arts types too, although I disagree
>with the way in which some of these guys are written up (too many Damage
>Classes are handed out).
Mmmm...we're back in the 'Martial Artist punches out Brick' thread again,
aren't we?
>My biggest complaint is not enough 'source' and too much 'book'. Okay, so
>the story line is nice, but I would have liked to seen more on the SFX of
>Eastern Magic (rahter than a listing of spells and magic items) and more
>Oriental creatures would have been nice (Yin Wu *is* supposed to have a
>small army of monsters). The name list in the back is nice, although the
>ninja-templates are pretty silly (the 900 point Disgustingly Powerful
>Ninja is rather funny). OTOH: the 900 point ninja does give a lot of
>useful skill selections to pick from.
Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:13:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: John and Ron Prins <jprins@interhop.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
>
> Oh, and not all comic book artists are pushovers. Fred Perry (Gold Digger)
> in particular was a soldier before pursuing his current career...
And just let your average soldier try to trash mild mannered Steve Rogers,
from back in the days when Capt. America's secret ID was a comic book
artist.;)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:16:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >> * Watchers of the Dragon
> >The characters themselves range from the pretty cool (David LoPa--- uh, I
> >mean Dr. Yin Wu) to the downright absurd (Maya). The point totals on a
> >lot of these guys is a killer, expect to see a lot of 350-400 point
> >characters. OTOH: There are scads of 250 to 275 pointers.
>
> Agreed. WotD presented a 'mixed bag' of characters - from the barely more
> than starting PC all the way to what a highly experienced 'super' martial
> artist would be.
Yeah, but some of them 'super' martial artists are way of the scale (there
are two 800+ point characters in the book)
> >There is a nice selection of characters from across the world, although
> >the non-Asians in the book get only passing mention (with the exception of
> >Nightwind).
>
> Fleur De Lis; but yeah, you're right. But any martial arts book is likely to
> be mostly Asian (genre). A fencer would have been nice...
I should have been more clear. Nightwind and Seeker actually talk, thus
you get a bit of insight into his character. Fleur de Lis and co. just
get mentioned in passing as part of a news article.
> Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
Heh... love Gossamer Storm's artwork... looks like the artist used Minka
as a figure model.
> >There is a nice selection of martial arts types too, although I disagree
> >with the way in which some of these guys are written up (too many Damage
> >Classes are handed out).
>
> Mmmm...we're back in the 'Martial Artist punches out Brick' thread again,
> aren't we?
Nope. I just think that Damage Classes were handed out like candy in the
book.
> Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
> doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
> Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
Hmmm... I diubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:27:45 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
> Untrue. Mechanic is a skill specifically noted as separate from a
>PS, however. Certain others, like acting and computer programming, are
>the same way. Certain other professions have enough of a difference from
>being skilled in the aspects of the job and what is actually done --
>Singing, Writing, and Teaching are good examples. Also, this would
>support a parallel provided by acting's treatment in the rules.
I could argue that Computer Programming, Electronics and Mechanics are all
Skills that a person can acquire through a hobby; abilities in these areas
does not necessarily require any professional training. PS: Computer
Programmer must include Computer Progamming as a job-related ability,
because you can't do the job without it, and the rules say a PS will let
you do the job. QED. You *can* still give a character both Skills, but by
my interpretation the PS would represent programming ability gained from
formal education or on-the-job training (COBOL and Natural, in my case) and
the separate Computer Programming Skill would represent programming skills
picked out on my own, irrespective of the job (BASIC and FORTRAN, both
learned years before I was hired as a programmer).
I don't think what I'm saying here is substantially different from what
Sakura said about back-yard mechanics vs. professional auto-shop mechanics.
The backyard mechanic learned auto mechanics as a hobby; if he goes on to
be a professional auto mechanic, he'll have access to tools and techniques
he didn't before, and thus be able to repair systems on the car he couldn't
before. He will not forget his hobby-based learning, though, and if that
experience tells him that pouring Coke on a battery is a good way to clean
the terminals, or that there's a "little trick" to doing a particular bit
of routine maintenance, he'll still remember how to do that. The mechanic
described here would have both Skills.
Dentistry is not practiced as a hobby. Your ability to perform dental work
is part of PS: Dentistry, thus there is no need for a separate Dentistry
Skill to stand alongside Electronics and Mechanics.
> Some, like Plumber, are covered fine by the PS. I'd say food
>service, bartending, accounting, banking, carpentry, bee keeping, (add
>your own, I'm sure you can think of some) would work fine with only the
>PS, though some KSs would help a lot. For example, most bar tenders have
>PS: Bartender. Some have a KS: Mixed Drinks, but not all -- from my
>experience.
I agree with this paragraph, though I'm a bit surprised you didn't require
SCI: Mathematics for the accountant. It seems consistent with the other
things you seem to feel are necessary as "support Skills".
>> except as a generic ability to do business; under the system you (and some
>> others) describe, you seem to have to buy Plumbing (Background?), Dentistry
>> (Background?), Accounting (INT?) in order to do the job...despite the fact
>> that the rules pretty clearly state that the PS allows you to do the job.
>
> Allows you to perform basic activities of the job, different from
>skillfully performing. Some work fine, but Dentestry would require at
>least a SS: Dentestry and (IMC) a Dental Work Dex-based skill.
Your skill level at a given job should be primarily determined by your
Skill Roll in that Skill, not by how many related Skills you can tack onto
it. I say that Dr. Tooth (PS: Dentist 13-) is a better dentist than Dr.
Gum (PS: Dentist 11-). You say (I think) that Dr. Tooth is better at
office procedure and business-related aspects of his practice, but that the
doctors' levels of medical expertise cannot be measured except in terms of
a Science and a [presently] non-existent DEX-based Skill.
> Not job related skill per se, but skills that may or may not be
>used by someone with that job. A skill, Writer, would be used by
>PS:Novelist, PS: Journalist, PS: Speechwriter, etc. Look at the example
>of Acting vs PS: Actor.
PS: Writer, SFX Journalist (or Speechwriter or Novelist)
Yes, I am well aware that these are different disciplines, but not so
different they can't be lumped together under the umbrella of Writer.
There's only one Animal Handler Skill, but you can define it as applicable
to almost any species of animal.
>> What you are describing doesn't sound like PS: Mechanic to me, it sounds
>> like Business Sense, presumably a Background Skill, which measures how good
>> a businessman you are regardless of your chosen field.
>
> More to it than that, as every type of business is different. The
>PS allows you to operate within the field and, in some cases, perform your
>work duties.
Again, take PS: Entrepreneur and define it as applicable to your particular
business, if all it's going to cover is the business-related aspects of
your profession.
>> If any special knowledge of the industry is needed, separate from the
>> knowledge of how to do the job, you can buy KS: <The Industry>, allow the
>> PS to cover the basic job functions, and not need to buy a separate,
>> made-up Skill.
>
> But the PS by nature will include some basic knowledge of the
>industry -- enough to work within it, anyways. Why are you so against
>making new skills -- it's needed for any game system, IMO, and Champions
>allows about the most leeway.
I did not suggest that the PS didn't include basic industry knowledge.
Quite the opposite. I merely suggested that if you were dealing with an
industry that for some reason required more detailed knowledge than a
typical profession, this was best handled by taking a KS to cover it.
I am not against the introduction of new Skills (or Powers or any other
options) if there's truly a gap that needs to be filled. I'm against the
rampant proliferation of a separate Skill for every conceivable profession,
sport, and handicraft. The Hero System is meant to be as generic as
possible at the base level. You can create a wide variety of things using
the existing building blocks. New blocks shouldn't be added unless there's
no [easy or sensible] way of modeling the desired ability already. You
don't need a rectangular block if two squares will do the job just as well.
>> Again, I thought we'd established that you needed Perk: P.I. License,
>> separate from PS: Private Investigator in order to be certified to do the
>> job. If that's true, all your statement above says is that the Perk
>> doesn't confer any job-related skills. I'm not suggesting it does, I'm
>> saying the PS does. Not every P.I. will be as good as every other, whis is
>> why you can buy the PS at 11-, 12-, 13- or whatever suits your level of
>> ability.
>
> But much of your PI work will be covered by Deduction and
>Investigation. (The last is a book skill, right? Or was it from Dark
>Champs.) Also add Concealment and Shadowing. These skills will not come
>with the PS. The PS will allow you to set up shop, find customers, and do
>the _basic_ parts of the above tasks.
Setting up shop and finding customers is related strictly to
business-related aspects that *any* entrepreneur will have to deal with. I
do not need the ability to deal with those things if I work as an employee,
only if I'm the boss. For example, John Reid runs the Silver Bullet
Detective Agency. John must pay all the bills, including his employee's
salaries, drum up new business, etc. so he rarely handles cases himself,
though he has the skills to do so. He has four investigators on his
payroll. They don't do any of this, they just handle the Concealment,
Shadowing, Deduction and, if you like, Investigation. My way, all five men
(sorry, persons) get PS: Private Investigator and John gets PS:
Entrepreneur as well. Your way, John gets PS: P.I. and the employees
get...what? PS: P.I. with a Limitation? Concealment, Shadowing and
Deduction, plus the license Perk, but no PS Skill? How can they not have
the PS Skill -- they're qualified to do the job, and they're doing it. It
doesn't make sense to say a person isn't fully qualified to do a job
(entitled to a PS, in other words) unless he's also capable of starting and
running his own business in that field. A PS gives you the ability to Do A
Job, not necessarily Run A Company.
Doctors in private practice should have PS: Entrepreneur; if a doctor just
works at a hospital, he doesn't need it.
>
>> However, the Hero System rule book does explicitly state "Whereas Knowledge
>> Skills give the character knowledge of how or why something works, a
>> Professional Skill gives the character the ability to do it...a person with
>> PS: Plumbing might not understand the intricacies of water pressure and
>> water flow friction, but he could fix a broken pipe." It doesn't say the
>> Professional Plumber will know how to advertise. It doesn't say he'll know
>> how to select an advantageous location for his shop. It doesn't say he
>> knows how to competitively price his services. It says he can fix a broken
>> pipe.
>
> However, it also states it will allow working in the field, per
>se. With the examples of professions with separate (BBB) skills, we have
>a precident for certain professions needing more than the PS.
I'm not sure what you mean by that first sentence; you aren't quoting. If
you mean it includes the ability to use job-related equipment (operating an
oil rig), that supports my point. I assume, then, that's not what you meant.
>> Please educate me. Show me something in the rules that (a) indicates that
>> a PS does *not* cover basic job functions for any PS, and (b) a suggestion
>> that new Skills will need to be created by GMs to cover these inexplicable
>> omissions that have managed to persist through every edition of the Hero
>> rules to date.
>
> Um. Skills have been added with every edition as well in almost
>every suppliment. Some are obviously not SS, KS, or PS -- these are just
>plain new skills.
Every edition, probably. Almost every supplement? I guess I just picked
the wrong ones, then. I went and looked at the Skills sections of Ninja
Hero, Western Hero, Cyber Hero, Horror Hero and Dark Champions. Out of
five major genre sourcebooks, I found one new Skill: Decking. There were
several examples of genre-specific Knowledge Skills, but Decking was the
only one that was truly new. If you have examples, I'll be happy to go
look at them. But again, it's not new Skills I have a problem with -- it's
new Skills for areas that are already adeqately covered, especially by a PS
(which is kind of the central point of this discussion).
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:50:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
<snip>
> Tax forms and parts procurement weren't part of Mark's unscrupulous example:
> "He runs a great business, advertises, has a lot of customers (at least one
> time each <G>), etc. "
>
> This is not PS: Mechanic (or Plumber or Dentist or Accountant); it's PS:
> Entrepreneur.
That means that Mark's example wasn't explained in the best possible way.
I think my example showed the difference between 'Mechanic' and 'PS: Auto
Mechanic' quite well.
> >I generally use this rule of thumb: if the skill i or can have a
> >significant impact on the game, it deserves to have more detail. Thus,
> >Mechanic gets split off from PS: Mechanic, but I'd probably leave PS:
> >Plumber as one skill.
>
> I appreciate your input here, but it only describes your house rules.
Well, actually, it also describes the way the HERO system does things.
It's never stated right out, but let's look at some examples.
PS: Knight - Under your argument, this should cover fighting (a basic,
job-related task of the profession). But the HERO system already has
rules for fighting, so PS: Knight covers 'Knightly Stuff that isn't
handled elsewhere'. The reason HERO handles it elsewhere is because it
gives a fair amount of detail to combat.
PS: Mechanic - under your argument, this should cover how to fix a car.
But the HERO system already has the 'Mechanic Skill', so PS: Mechanic
ought to cover all the job-related stuff that isn't part of 'Mechanics'.
The reason HERO has a 'Mechanics' skill is because they thought it was
important enough in enough games to treat in a bit more detail than for
other skills.
PS: Plumber - this covers all the job skills of the plumber, from knowing
the best way to fix a pipe to how to order more supplies from companies to
how to write up an invoice and operate whatever kind of billing system
they use. HERO doesn't see a need to handle plumbing in great detail, so
it doesn't.
> What's at issue isn't how useful general mechanical ability is relative to
> plumbing expertise, but whether or not a standard PS, as written, covers
> the basic job-related tasks of its profession. I contend that it does, and
> that this is clearly stated in the rules under the description of PS.
I contend, instead, that a PS handles all aspects of a particula
rprofessiont hat aren't already covered by other skills. If PS covered
everything, there would be no need for 'mechanic' - we'd use PS: Mechanic.
There'd be no need for 'Strike' - we'd use PS: Knight.
While it may not be in the rules in a blatant, in-your-face, 'here it is
in black and white, read it and weep sucka' kind of way. it is certainly
heavily implied by the way the skill structure is set up.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:51:44 -0500
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
>> > How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
>> > administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
>> > would impart no actual ability to teach.
I wanted to address this separately, since PS: Entrepreneur isn't
appropriate in this case. PS: Teacher should in fact be a measure of an
individual's ability to teach, though you can certainly opt to make it
characteristic-based. That would give a range of abilities dependent on
the teacher's PRE (or EGO or INT, however you choose to define it) and how
many points s/he spends to improve the base roll. Teaching is a complex,
long-term, interactive process. You must deal with a variety of factors
like the student's ability to learn, the restrictions placed on the teacher
by the school board (in terms of what may be included in the curriculum and
what materials are made available), the number of students among whom the
teacher must divide his or her attention, whether or not the teacher must
follow a set lesson plan an/or make use of standardized tests, etc. All of
these are potential situational modifiers to the PS: Teacher Skill Roll.
Routine paperwork and administrative duties such as the preparation of
lesson plans, grading of tests and report papers, issuing report cards and
participating in parent/teacher conferences, should all be covered by the
PS: Teacher. If the teacher is also an administrator (teaches three
classes in the morning and functions as assistant vice principal or student
career advisor in the afternoon) a separate PS: Administrator Skill may
well be warranted.
>> But a KS doesn't give one ability, it gives one knowledge. And
>> the study of teaching (Pedantics?) is a knowledge all of its own. This is
>> a place for a new PRE-based skill, based off of Acting, Conversation,
>> Oratory, etc.
Pedagogics, not pedantics. Yes, it's a study on its own, and not one that
all teachers should have as a KS. All teachers by definition have it as a
demonstrable ability, an integral part of PS: Teacher (pedagogy is "the art
or profession of teaching", so if you're in the profession, you're a
pedagogue). Yes, some are better at it than others, just as some students
are better at learning than others and some school systems are better at
providing an education than others (as a result of many factors, not just
the staff of teachers).
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:54:28 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
<< As soon as L&O comes out, my PCs who have law enforcement backgrounds are
going to wave it in my face and demand ridiculous package deals so that their
characters are as effective as "Joe." >>
Then you can wave it right back at them and point to the sections that say
"...with GMs approval..." "Optional" and so on. Come on, folks. It's one
example of how to do it. Can we please get over this paranoia and panic mind
set? :D
<< Mark, I respectfully express my opinion that it is harder to make the fine
judgments that occupy the middle ground between excruciatingly detailed 200-pt
normals and supremely abstracted normals who are nothing more than a PS and
two KS's. As such, I respectfully express my hope that this area of play will
not be glossed over.>>
Your comments are noted, believe me (as have been similar comments over the
last few days). I certainly hope that people who are reading this thread will
take the heart some of my comments that I fear have been ignored. Namely the
"it's not the only thing in the book" comments. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-8.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @arl-img-8.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.138
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:56:23 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus printed versions
To: Champions Mailing List A <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id AAA02104
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
> On thing that annoyed me about "The Ultimate Super Mage" was that there
> really wasn't enough room on the inside margin (duplexed) for 3-hole
drilled
> paper. I suppose it works okay if you want to put it into a three ring
> notebook, but if you want to put it into a folder/cover or use a simple
> binding system like you can get at Office Max, the text is just too close
to
> the edge of the page!!!
>
> On the other hand, the outside margins are _huge_. I suppose they needed
to
> be to fit that large scroll around the page number. It would have been
much
> nicer if the scroll had been smaller, and the whole image moved maybe a
> quarter of an inch toward the outside margin.
When I printed my copy, it came out just fine, and the margins were
perfect. You might want to check the margin settings on your printer
itself. Just a thought...
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:07:08 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
<< Now let me say something that I am very loathe to say. However, you have
earned it. You are an idiot. >>
There is certainly no need to stoop to name-calling in this list. If you
can't keep your comments civil and want to make personal attacks I'd suggest
doing so in private e-mail. I certainly don't want to read them here. Don't
get me wrong -- I've had my patience stretched at times, too, by various
comments that seemed to be personal attacks. But let's not let this forum of
idea exchange degenerate into a snake pit. If it does I'll be reluctantly
forced to remove myself.
<< Well, okay, maybe not, but you do have a serious problem with understanding
other people's points of view. >>
I think your whole letter would have been much better served by beginning
with a comment like this rather than the way it did.
<< The last 24 hours on this list has very plainly demonstrated that there are
numerous playing styles and interpretations of the same BBB that we've all
read. >>
Well put.
<< You seem to go very light detail, whereas Mark (@ GRG) goes to very great
detail. >>
You are attaching labels and generalizations to me and espousing my beliefs.
Interestingly, none of them are accurate. With all due respect, I have only
gone to great detail in one sample which I mentioned on this list. No one has
yet seemed to remember that I also stated that the "detailed" cop was but one
example from the book, and that we were also planning to address other ways of
representing cops in the Hero System.
Even more interesting, while several people have told me that my
interpretation of a "real \world cop" in Hero System terms was "wrong," not
one single person has asked to see any of my lower-point versions of cops, nor
asked about my various treatments of cops for different genres. At this point
I must say that the relative hostility on this list to my opinions leaves me
quite reluctant to do so at this point.
<< Personally, I don't care what level of detail you (or Mark, for that
matter) prefer,>>
An interesting comment for someone who has told me what level of detail I
prefer (despite the fact that I have never stated my belief in this matter).
<< My cops will have more skills than yours, but less than Mark's. >>
Yeah, but my cops can beat up your cops. And my police captain can yell
louder than yours. <LOL>
<< My goal is provide an afternoon of enjoyment by telling a good story -
WITHOUT REGARD TO POINTS. >>
To quote Cartman... "That's what *I* said." :D
<<< However, if we are having a discussion about a 'Realistically Detailed'
(as Mark refers to the concept) teacher, then you must acknowledge that PS:
Teaching and Skill: Teaching are not the same thing and should be regarded
separately.>>
Hey, I do. I hear you, man. I'm right there with you! ;) My cops could
still beat up your teachers, though. :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:11:03 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
<< I don't think we can look forward to much in the way of licensed products
in the Hero System; most are taking Fuzion. >>
Really, Bob? Is that so? I'm sorry you feel that way. I certainly hope that
our announcement this summer will change your mind. ;)
<< while I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do with it, I do intend on
getting it published in some form, almost certainly through either Hero Plus
or GRG. >>
Ahhh... more proposals. Good. Good! ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:31:11 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
I based that write-up upon my experences in the Army, not all of my
experences, I didn't include anything I learned in Ranger school, and
nothing I learned during my time at the National Training Center at Ft Ord CA.
I did include Airborne and Air Assault school, allmost because over 60% of
active duty infantry have one or both schools. (60% is more than half Rat)
that number is according to a DOD publication.
The write-up I provided was a fair cross section of a modern infanty
solider. If a unit of infanty was deployed to answer a threat in the real
world or in a Comic book game world there are a few things that can be
assumed. The unit will comnsist of both green newbees, as well as senior
NCO's who may have had combat duty. Lt's fresh from OCS who are more of a
liability than a help and officers who have been around. All in all a
standard unit covers all the bases. So having one standard write-up as a
base is much easier than a 10 diffrent one to handle each type.
Now to answer some of your comments...
> Standard US Army Infantry Solider
> 2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
What job? Most recruits are fresh out of high school.
Most people have jobs in high school, and since the standards of enlistment
were raised, you have many more people who wait untill after college to join.
> 2 KS: Hobby 11-
8-, and it is a freebie.
Sounds to me like you would give yourself more than an 8- skill with your hobby.
> 1 Paramedic 8-
Another everyman skill; another freebie.
Maybe, but I don't give everyone an 8- paramedics in my game.
> 3 Tactics 12-
Only after OCS.
Nope, taught in Basic, AIT, and during the whole time you are at your unit.
In fact it could be broken down into Small Unit Tactics and Individual
Combat Tactics.
> 1 Computers 8-
Only for a particular specialst.
Every one in the Headquarters Platoon from and Infantry Company learns to
use a PC, most soliders learn to use computer at least a little during there
time in the service.
> 1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
Largely useless, so why pay points for it?
Useless? Not if you want entrance into a secure area or need secret
information.
> (2) KS: Military 11-
> (2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
Only for OCS. Most of what a grunt knows is subsumbed by his soldiering
professional skill.
Maybe, but all and I do mean all soliders MUST know the history and customs.
If not they will spend more time in the front leaning rest position than on
their feet. (That's doing push ups)
> (1) TF,Parachuting
Infantry don't drop, Rangers drop.
Some one has allready explained this one better than I could.
> (3) Navigation 11-
A specialist.
Land Nav is a testable skill, you must pass to graduate basic and AIT both.
> (2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
Ditto.
This is a left over from my write-up, should have been left off.
> 5 Subject to recall
> 10 Watched,"The US Army",more powerful,non-combat influence,
> harsh,appear 8-
If discharged, the former applies; if active, the latter. Pick one.
Again, nope, recall works for both, if active duty you can be recalled from
leave or even back from a day off. if out you can be reactivated.
You are watched from now on. You are subject to laws and rules even after
your discharged.
> 15 DNPC,"spouse",normal,appear 11-
Unlikely for an enlisted Infantryman.
Beleve it or not, a study from 1991 showed that over 70% of all recent
enlistees will get married during their time in the service. Spouce can
also cover girlfriends.
> 5 Unluck,1D6
Not the kind of disadvantage I would want every soldier to have.
Every soldier I know has it, just ask one. You want an example?
While deployed to Saudia Arabia, The 101st Airborne Div. experenced more
rain than had fallen in county since they have kept records.
God loves the Infanty....
Michael
501st PIR
101st Airborne
72nd Ranger Batt
5th Group Special Forces
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:32:34 -0500
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
>That means that Mark's example wasn't explained in the best possible way.
>I think my example showed the difference between 'Mechanic' and 'PS: Auto
>Mechanic' quite well.
I've referred to that in a reply to Tim, so I won't repeat it here.
>Well, actually, it also describes the way the HERO system does things.
>It's never stated right out, but let's look at some examples.
Since it's "never stated right out" what I'm looking at here isn't The
Rules, but your interpretation of them. Let's see how much of it I can
agree with...
>PS: Knight - Under your argument, this should cover fighting (a basic,
>job-related task of the profession). But the HERO system already has
>rules for fighting, so PS: Knight covers 'Knightly Stuff that isn't
>handled elsewhere'. The reason HERO handles it elsewhere is because it
>gives a fair amount of detail to combat.
I have no ready answer for this one, but nothing I've objected to so far
has anything to do with combat, so I'm not certain that catches me in an
inconsistency. I may have to think about this.
>PS: Mechanic - under your argument, this should cover how to fix a car.
>But the HERO system already has the 'Mechanic Skill', so PS: Mechanic
>ought to cover all the job-related stuff that isn't part of 'Mechanics'.
Covered elsewhere, but the gist of what I said is that hobby-based
Mechanics may well provide a different set of techniques, almost certainly
a different set of tools, and thus enable a Professional Mechanic to
"repair, replace and build" things the talented amateur could not. I do
consider the separate Skill to be subsumed under the PS in many cases.
>The reason HERO has a 'Mechanics' skill is because they thought it was
>important enough in enough games to treat in a bit more detail than for
>other skills.
You assume. Or have you spoken to the original designers and received this
information first-hand? I could argue (as I said elsewhere) that
Mechanics, Electronics and Computer Programming are listed separately
because, unlike Dentistry, it's possible to acquire them via a hobby,
without ever getting the PS to go with it. That being the case, it's not
inconsistent or unreasonable to consider those Skills to be subsets of
their respective PS Skills.
>PS: Plumber - this covers all the job skills of the plumber, from knowing
>the best way to fix a pipe to how to order more supplies from companies to
>how to write up an invoice and operate whatever kind of billing system
>they use. HERO doesn't see a need to handle plumbing in great detail, so
>it doesn't.
Plumber covers all the job skills of a plumber because that what a PS does,
not because Hero doesn't consider plumbing important. (It probably is true
that Hero doesn't consider plumbing important, I just don't think the
coverage of a PS varies according to that.)
If I take PS: Plumber for 2 points and it covers all aspects of my job, but
PS: Mechanic does not, shouldn't I be entitled to a price break on PS:
Mechanic? Say a -1/2 Limitation, Requires Additional Skills. It isn't
good enough on its own...I can't do the job unless I have these other
Skills to go with it. That doesn't make sense to me, and neither does
claiming the PS means one thing if the profession it represents is
"important" and something else if the profession isn't "important".
>> What's at issue isn't how useful general mechanical ability is relative to
>> plumbing expertise, but whether or not a standard PS, as written, covers
>> the basic job-related tasks of its profession. I contend that it does, and
>> that this is clearly stated in the rules under the description of PS.
>
>I contend, instead, that a PS handles all aspects of a particula
>rprofessiont hat aren't already covered by other skills. If PS covered
>everything, there would be no need for 'mechanic' - we'd use PS: Mechanic.
>There'd be no need for 'Strike' - we'd use PS: Knight.
You can have hobby-derived Mechanics without being a professional; you can
have a form of combat skill that includes Strike without having all the
other abilities that go with being a knight. The notion that a PS
incorporates some skill, knowledge or ability doesn't in all cases remove
the need for the separate ability...though it may serve to limit the wanton
creation of new ones.
>While it may not be in the rules in a blatant, in-your-face, 'here it is
>in black and white, read it and weep sucka' kind of way. it is certainly
>heavily implied by the way the skill structure is set up.
I've tried to convey here (and in replies to Tim) that there's more than
one possible explanation for why some Skills are separate from the
Professional Skills they seem most closely associated with. That being the
case, perhaps you are inferring something from the Skill structure that is
not in fact being implied.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:37:07 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
> Your comments are noted, believe me (as have been similar comments over the
>last few days). I certainly hope that people who are reading this thread will
>take the heart some of my comments that I fear have been ignored. Namely the
>"it's not the only thing in the book" comments. ;)
You have a legitimate gripe here. However, although you have referred to
other material L&O will cover, the "200-point cop" thread discusses the
only thing you've actually *shown* here. Describe any other part of the
book you like in as much detail as you've described Officer Joe and those
comments will end. They won't necessarily be replaced by comments you'll
like any better, of course. :)
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:50:03 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
CC: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
> >1. Cardboard miniatures, blanks, siloettes (sp wrong, I failed my Int check),
> > and fully drawn and colored of all sorts.
>
> Someone else made mention of silhouette Cardboard Heroes. I vote for
> both options: regular Cardboard Heroes for published NPCs, and silhouettes
> for PCs and house NPCs.
>
I'd want full drawn pictures of not only published NPC's, but of
whatever
characters hit the artist's fancy. This way, my players would have a
grab bag of hundreds
of counters to choose from if they weren't art inclined. Plus it gives
me hundreds of NPC ideas.
> >6. A whole book of siloettes (failed that Int roll again. :) ) for my less
> > art inclined players.
>
> Someone else mentioned a book of character sheets with different
> silhouettes, and I think I'd prefer that. A disk of silhouettes for
> Creation Workshop character sheets would be cool too.
This is one of those rare things I might actually prefer on disk over
paper.
> >8. WorldBooks, Licenced lines. Marvel Hero, Conan Fantasy Hero, Expanding
> > Western Shores out to a full worldbook. San Angelo, etc...
>
> I don't think we can look forward to much in the way of licensed
> products in the Hero System; most are taking Fuzion. However, there's been
Which is sad. The comics industry right now is in an even worse slump
than the RPG industry. You'd think they'd jump at the chance for
publicity, even if minor.
But GURPS has proven that many fiction authors are willing to license.
> >9. Villian and Hero collections. Enemies and Allies books. Though I disliked
> > allies as it lacked enough solo's and had too many teams for my tastes.
> > I would want these to be single quick NPC's I could toss in on a rainy
> > day. Or scavenge for parts, more or less, when building my own NPC's.
>
> More Enemies books? Maybe reworkings of the Enemies books by origin
Well; that's why I listed it dead last. It's what I least want to see
them publish.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:58:18 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
<< Are you not now saying that certification is part of the PS? >>
No, no, not at all. Sorry. What I should have said that PS: Whatever confers
the knowledge of how to GET the licensing moreso than the actual license
itself. There are steps to obtaining and maintaining a license for any
profession, obviously enough. I think a PS should allow a character to have
this information.
<< He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. >>
But nevertheless, by definition, he is still a "mechanic."
<< In the example above, *any* unscrupulous business owner who is good at
advertising and generating a customer base could be subtituted. >>
Very much so. I see real world examples almost every day. I'm sure you do,
too. ;)
<< Thus, none of these Skills are worth a damn except as a generic ability to
do business; under the system you (and some others) describe, you seem to have
to buy [a KS] in order to do the job...despite the fact that the rules pretty
clearly state that the PS allows you to do the job. >>
Being able to do a job and really knowing what your doing in that field are
not necessarily the same thing, as others have pointed out. The example of
teachers who cannot "teach," lawyers who passed the bar but couldn't litigate
to save their lives, etc., are all examples of this line of thought.
<< What you are describing doesn't sound like PS: Mechanic to me, it sounds
like Business Sense, presumably a Background Skill, which measures how good
a businessman you are regardless of your chosen field. >>
Not so. The "unscrupulous mechanic" in my example has to have *some*
knowledge of being a mechanic to run the business effectively, thus the
Familiarity with Mechanic. Someone with a Masters in Business Administration
but nbo background whatsopever in law is going to have a tough time running a
paralegal service all by himself. ;)
<< If any special knowledge of the industry is needed, separate from the
knowledge of how to do the job, you can buy KS: <The Industry>, allow the PS
to cover the basic job functions, and not need to buy a separate, made-up
Skill. >>
So what is the difference, philosophically, between buying (what I deem to
be) the prerequisite skill and (what you state) a KS: The Industry? :) Not
much, if any at all, IMO.
<< Again, I thought we'd established that you needed Perk: P.I. License,
separate from PS: Private Investigator in order to be certified to do the job.
>>
You're right, we did. Sorry. Bad example.
<< Not every P.I. will be as good as every other, whis is why you can buy the
PS at 11-, 12-, 13- or whatever suits your level of ability. >>
And any PI who doesn't have Detective Work or Deduction or any other
"investigative"-type skills won't be very effective at all. I would assert
that such a character is a PI by name only (the PS) and not by definition. ;)
<< ...the Hero System rule book does explicitly state "Whereas Knowledge
Skills give the character knowledge of how or why something works, a
Professional Skill gives the character the ability to do it...a person with
PS: Plumbing might not understand the intricacies of water pressure and water
flow friction, but he could fix a broken pipe." >>
Right. So someone with PS: Trial Lawyer could argue in court, but without KS:
Law he may have no clue what the heck he is arguing about or truly understand
how the law works! <LOL> Someone with PS: Writer could draft a ton of books
and send them off to his agent, but without a skill conferring the theories
and understanding the "elements of style" he has little luck of getting
published. Well, maybe I should rephrase that. He may get published, but his
work will certainly not win any awards. ;)
<< It also appears to me that you, Tim and a handful of others are blatantly
ignoring the description of PS, which I've quoted in part above. >>
That';s right. The publisher is ignoring the rules printed in the product.
::sigh:: No, I am not blatantly ignoring them. I am interpreting them. I think
a PS would certainly be sufficient for some jobs that are essentially less
technical (PS: Waitress? PS: Video Rental Clerk?). But when it comes to some
jobs, other skills are an absolute necessity. One could be a plumber with PS:
Plumber, but how many plumbers do you know that really know how to do pipe
work and have absolutely no knowledge of water pressure and such?
<< I have already been a flaming idiot today, though, and make allowance for
the possibility that there is something I'm not seeing here. Please educate
me. >>
We're trying. ;) Perhaps in large part it *does* simply come down to
preferred style of play.
<< Show me something in the rules that (a) indicates that a PS does *not*
cover basic job functions for any PS, and (b) a suggestion that new Skills
will need to be created by GMs to cover these inexplicable omissions that have
managed to persist through every edition of the Hero rules to date.>>
I am not going to point out specific rules passages to you to try to
convince you. I believe much of it is common sense and desired style of play
(read: opinion). Besides, you posted one of the same quotes I did.
If you are only going to acknowledge the published rules as canon and not be
open to a differing point of view, then what's the point? I thought we were
discussing an interpretation of the rules; a way to present a "realistically
detailed" option to the low-point NPCs that many Hero fans are used to.
If we *were* to publish such a rule, would that convince you to consider the
possibility that PS is not the catch-all skill that some people consider it to
be? Do you see how silly this all is? <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo26.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo26.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.70
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:01:55 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
<< The 'Mechanic' skill is posessed by any back-yard auto mechanic... It
covers
fixing cars, and that's it. >>
Oh, boy. That's not correct. Mechanics covers "mechanical devices and... how
to repair, replace and build them." That can cover a lot more than just cars.
In fact, in the description, it mentions modifying a car engine to power a
boat. :)
<< So yeah, they'd be two different skills, and any good professional mechanic
is going to have both.>>
My point exactly! :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:03:17 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
CC: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
> >4. Champions Plus. Rules expansions, optional rules, and popular house
> rules
> put this one out on a one volume a year basis or something.
> Collect rules from people's house games and present them for
> everyone's perusal.<
>
> I would suggest that each book should publish everything from the old book
> (maybe revised), plus whatever new stuff came up in a year. The reason I
> suggest this is because, once early issues become unavailable, you'll have
> a split in the demographic between veteran players who know about Rule Y
> and relative newbies that can only find out about it by talking to
> veterans.
That would mean that each book would get bigger than the last until you
eventually had a 1000+ page volume of all the house rules in use in
every known hero system game out there.
>
> >2. Genre books
> 3. Sub genre books
> 5. Gm and Players screens
> 9. Villian and Hero collections.
> I'm not sure why these are on your wishlist, since they already exist. The
> packet of charts that came with the GM screen makes a handy reference for
> all players.
My wishlist is not what I want to see next, so much as how I would have
done it if it had been me. The numbers where the priority I would place
on them. So number 9 is where I would put my 'spare resources' into
developing. Where-as numbers 1 and 2 would have gotten my full attention
and resources as a game publisher. I've always felt Hero should have
followed GURPS' path and tried to license or design a world and or genre
book for everything they could come up with.
> >>8. WorldBooks, Licenced lines. Marvel Hero, Conan Fantasy Hero, Expanding
> Western Shores out to a full worldbook. San Angelo, etc...<<
>
> To be honest, I think of the Hero System as strictly a Superhero system,
> and I've been resistant to trying it for anything else (for example, when I
> was shopping for a new fantasy system, I chose Earthdawn over Fantasy Hero
> and others).
That too bad. I've always felt Hero did Fantasy better than it did
Super. It was a natural fit for the genre. Either that or Fantasy Hero
just very well written. But I've always found that it plays very well in
that genre. It plays even better in pulp. This despite the fact that the
stat and skill range is so limited at those power levels. If you can get
past how that looks and just try it; you'll likely find it very playable
and fun.
> However, these would probably be good ideas for the majority
> of players who don't have this hangup. I'd be particularly interested in a
> game and/or worldbook that did justice to the world of Conan...I'm one of
> the few people who bought (and still own) the Conan RPG that TSR put out
> years ago.
GURPS Conan was a masterpiece; IMHO. It sits on my shelf as something
I'm very glad to say I own. I made it a policy to avoid buying anything
TSR with extra good cause and pre knowledge of the contents years ago.
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo19.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo19.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.41
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:04:00 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
<< What I /didn't/ have when I entered the workforce was: PS: Computer
Programmer, which covers a lot of the 'procedural' stuff... >>
Hmm... That echoes my earlier post in which I said that PS was primary
procedural. Interesting. I think we're on to something here. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo26.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo26.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.70
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:15:21 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
<< What's at issue [is] whether or not a standard PS, as written, covers the
basic job-related tasks of its profession. >>
Certainly it does. I never suggested otherwise. In fact, early on I listed a
number of duties a cop could perform with just PS: Police Officer. Why are you
making this some type of internal struggle when it's not? It's simply a matter
of misunderstanding what is being said, I think.
<< ...so far I haven't any of these people back up their position with
anything that's actually *in* the rules. >>
As a publisher of Hero System products I hereby declare it is now an Otional
Rule. <LOL> Satisfied?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:21:06 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
<< Maybe, but Joe Lumberjack or Joe Trapper would clean up on either of them.
>>
With or without guns? At what range? In what setting (forest, hills,
flatland...)? ;)
<< Oh, and not all comic book artists are pushovers. Fred Perry (Gold Digger)
in particular was a soldier before pursuing his current career...>>
But I thought you said soldiers were sissy-boys? No, wait.. I got that
messed up again. <LOL>
FWIW, I never said all comic artists were pushovers. We were talking
averages, nevermind the fact that I was being facetious.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:38:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
> > Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
>
> Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
I did them for another game some time ago. But I also wrote up Dr.
Destroyer's Iron Lords for that game. The PC's were agents of Dr. D, so I
had to put more work into them than I would for a Superhero game. That
game went through so many turns and twists and covered 20 game years. One
of my two favorite games to GM to date.
> > Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
> > doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
> > Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
>
> Hmmm... I diubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
> proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
I doubt it would get written but could be interesting. I liked Wuxia
Hero, at least the section I found on the webpages.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:50:24 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
> >> > A writing skill to go with it? This will help you try to get
> >> > something published, but not write it.
> >>
> >> KS: Writing?
> >
> > Nah. With that you could teach it. Call it a new skill: Writing.
> >I'm not sure if it should just be 11- or be based on INT or PRE.
>
> I think it would probably be most representative to make Writing a
> stat-based Professional Skill. Let it variably be based on INT, PRE, or
Ok.
KS: Writing (Based on ___ )
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.2.64
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:52:32 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Law& Order (was Re: Joe Cop...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
GoldRushG wrote:
> To be honest, however, I'm starting to get a little bored with some of the
> same comments over and over and over again in this thread. It's this very
> reason that I seldom post anything of substance to the HML. It's a shame that
> people can't simply state their opinion, seek clarification, and say "Hm. I
> wouldn't use that, but it is cool to see. I wonder what else they're going to
> do in the book?"
>
> Mark @ GRG
Amen... Geez some of us can't stop repeating them selves over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (sadistic
aren't I?)
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over (I love the cutt and paste commands) over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over.
Quit trying to beat your opinions into everyone's head, if we didn't agree with
you then we certainly won't after the flame war is done...
No Life, no sig
Gonna dance me a jig.
God I depress me
Chad
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.2.64
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:07:44 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>
> > >> * Watchers of the Dragon
>
> > >The characters themselves range from the pretty cool (David LoPa--- uh, I
> > >mean Dr. Yin Wu) to the downright absurd (Maya). The point totals on a
> > >lot of these guys is a killer, expect to see a lot of 350-400 point
> > >characters. OTOH: There are scads of 250 to 275 pointers.
> >
> > Agreed. WotD presented a 'mixed bag' of characters - from the barely more
> > than starting PC all the way to what a highly experienced 'super' martial
> > artist would be.
>
> Yeah, but some of them 'super' martial artists are way of the scale (there
> are two 800+ point characters in the book)
>
> Okay, This is another of my pet peeves with this group. But before I rant I will
> say that my earlier opinion of the groups attitude towards "high-end" characters
> and those who play in highlevel campaigns was incorrect. I haven't seen many
> personal attacks so I'll keep it civil myself.
Any way, to my rant. There were what 30+ characters in the book some were 250 -
275and others were higher (some a lot higher) my question is so what? I mean if
you want to make an immortal Martial artist who fights (and can give them a go of
it)an entire team of super heroes are you gonna use another 250pt guy? I doubt it.
I mean like the guys say these guys aren't carved in stone, alter them don't smash
the author....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.1.64
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:32:01 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 39
Not to get completely off the subject but this thread title reminds me of one of
our fav. Silly supers NORMAL MAN! He was completely normal except that he had a
booming voice and a PRE of 50. He made many low end villains wet their pants and
he was fearless he'd run into burning buildings to save a lady's potted
plant......
Other Stupid heroes were:
Captain Invincible who, like NORMAL MAN, had base stats except for PRE (20) and
he had Telepathy (or mind control I can't remember) 15d6 always on AE that made
people think he was immune to all harm. He was killed by a team mate who tried to
smash a villain into his invulnerable teammate at superspeed.....SQUISH
Armor Man: whose armor was OAF; he had a big red button on his chest that said
EJECT BUTTON. He was often shot out of the back of his armor in round one.He
latter bought down the Limitation but not being the brightest genius inventor, he
bought it to IAF and scribbled over EJECT BUTTON with "This in not an EJECT
BUTTON".
sorry back to the Average Man......
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:16:34 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
>Maybe, but Joe Lumberjack or Joe Trapper would clean up on either of them.
>Wilderness folk are tough, oy vey...;-). For example, my cousin, who skipped
>a chainsaw off a tree, into her leg, through chainmail pants. Way cool
>scar...That's right, HER. Nowadays she works for the Ministry of the
>Environment, directing firefighting efforts in the summer, and animal
>control in the winter...did I mention the packs of wild dogs? Makes soldier
>boys look sissy by comparison - and she tells me stories about the tough
>people she's met :-) :-) :-).
>
>Oh, and not all comic book artists are pushovers. Fred Perry (Gold Digger)
>in particular was a soldier before pursuing his current career...
Sissy's... gee I think those are fightin' words :-)
I have to admit some soldiers aren't not the toughest people in the world
but I can tell you from personal experience that some of the toughest,
meanest, most dangerous people in the world are in the Military.
For example...
Take the case of Sgt P. name deleted to protect the guilty :-)
Sgt P played football at Alabama, he was Navy SEAL. During the invasion of
Panama he was shot, his wound caused him to be discharged from the Navy. He
healed and joined the Army and went to Special Forces Q course. He was a
semipro body builder, he spent two tours as a Drill SGT. I saw him
personally clean out a bar full of Marines and members of the 24th Infanty
Division. I saw him pick up a 200 pound plus Marine with one hand around
his neck and smash him into the wall hard enough the guy was knocked out, he
then hit him with the other hand... This wasn't TV wrestling it was real
life. Kinda looked like the WWF, but alot more painful.
Sissy huh?
Oh yeah, SGT P. is a Fire Jumper when he goes home.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:10:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Tokyo Mark wrote:
> > > Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
> > > doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
> > > Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
> >
> > Hmmm... I doubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
> > proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
>
> I doubt it would get written but could be interesting. I liked Wuxia
> Hero, at least the section I found on the webpages.
Thank you!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:49:37 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
CC: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: 0 END DI
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 133
Dataweaver wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>
> > Anyone here know the offial answer to this problem?
> > If DI is bought 0 END, do you need to pay the END cost of the STR it grants?
>
> Yes.
>
> ---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
I would agree. If you want to get the strength for nothing as well then
you need to buy 0END on the strength itself. This is not terribly points
efficient, as you will not always have that level of strength (but, if
it doesn't cost you in END to "power up" you only need to worry about
this when ou are standing on a bed of eggshells or something.)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:56:27 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
CC: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 128
If there is a big enough demand for this then I might give it a try and
stick on my web page. Before I embark on this epic mission..... just how
desperate are you guys (if we're bribing again I only except cash)
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> >>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some
> "cardboard
> hero" type counters in electronic format?<<
>
> Lots of people (myself included) are asking for more of those cardboard
> "miniatures". Hero or Gold Rush, are you taking notes? :-) My personal
> preference would be to have only silhouettes on these miniatures (just like
> the character sheets), so we could draw our own heroes/villains onto them.
> Sounds like an inexpensive project that is highly desired.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:56:27 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
CC: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 132
If there is a big enough demand for this then I might give it a try and
stick on my web page. Before I embark on this epic mission..... just how
desperate are you guys (if we're bribing again I only except cash)
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> >>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some
> "cardboard
> hero" type counters in electronic format?<<
>
> Lots of people (myself included) are asking for more of those cardboard
> "miniatures". Hero or Gold Rush, are you taking notes? :-) My personal
> preference would be to have only silhouettes on these miniatures (just like
> the character sheets), so we could draw our own heroes/villains onto them.
> Sounds like an inexpensive project that is highly desired.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:05:40 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: redbf@ldd.net
CC: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 129
A good example of this is in the Feng Shui system (OK... I know it's
light on rules.. but..)
They break any skill down into 3 component parts
1- Being able to physically do it (e.g fire a a gun)
2- Knowing the thoery behind it (e.g. Ah... a Colt 45...)
3- Knowing other people who know about it (e.g. "Hey Bob, more .45
rounds?" "Yeah Bill, put them on my account ok.. the waterfronts a
mess!")
This seems like a pretty good of considering the professional skill,
after all you are supposed to a professional in your field right?
If you want to know EVERYTHING about your field you take the KS to go
with, and if you want a contact who is really reliable (or a real big
account at the gun sotre!) then you can buy a contact.
Comments (ducks ...)
bobby farris wrote:
>
> Seems to me there is a lot of talk about what exactly a
> Proffesional Skill covers and what it doesn't cover so I am including my
> own House rules here for you to flame on.
>
> If there are no other applicable skills to the Proffesion, such
> as Pro Football player, then the
> PS: Football Player gives the player:
> a) the ability to play Football,
> b) the ability to know the rules of Football,
> c) the ability to know the little things a football star would
> know like other players, agents, rules of the league, etc.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:09:14 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
CC: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 134
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > Actually, a teacher who is any good would also have a skill in teaching.
>
If only they knew this in my university...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:39:05 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 42
And you'll notice that I retracted it in the next sentence, and then
proceeded to explain what I really meant.
I am not *stating* anything about your style of play, only that you *seem*
to have x preferences based on your previous comments. You'll note that I
did use the word *seem*. It means that I don't know, but this is my current
thought based on the evidence available.
Regardless, my teachers get more respect and appreciation than your cops
;-)
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GoldRushG [SMTP:GoldRushG@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 1:07 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
>
> << Now let me say something that I am very loathe to say. However, you
> have
> earned it. You are an idiot. >>
>
> There is certainly no need to stoop to name-calling in this list. If you
> can't keep your comments civil and want to make personal attacks I'd
> suggest
> doing so in private e-mail. I certainly don't want to read them here.
> Don't
> get me wrong -- I've had my patience stretched at times, too, by various
> comments that seemed to be personal attacks. But let's not let this forum
> of
> idea exchange degenerate into a snake pit. If it does I'll be reluctantly
> forced to remove myself.
>
> << Well, okay, maybe not, but you do have a serious problem with
> understanding
> other people's points of view. >>
>
> I think your whole letter would have been much better served by
> beginning
> with a comment like this rather than the way it did.
>
> << The last 24 hours on this list has very plainly demonstrated that there
> are
> numerous playing styles and interpretations of the same BBB that we've all
> read. >>
>
> Well put.
>
> << You seem to go very light detail, whereas Mark (@ GRG) goes to very
> great
> detail. >>
>
> You are attaching labels and generalizations to me and espousing my
> beliefs.
> Interestingly, none of them are accurate. With all due respect, I have
> only
> gone to great detail in one sample which I mentioned on this list. No one
> has
> yet seemed to remember that I also stated that the "detailed" cop was but
> one
> example from the book, and that we were also planning to address other
> ways of
> representing cops in the Hero System.
>
> Even more interesting, while several people have told me that my
> interpretation of a "real \world cop" in Hero System terms was "wrong,"
> not
> one single person has asked to see any of my lower-point versions of cops,
> nor
> asked about my various treatments of cops for different genres. At this
> point
> I must say that the relative hostility on this list to my opinions leaves
> me
> quite reluctant to do so at this point.
>
> << Personally, I don't care what level of detail you (or Mark, for that
> matter) prefer,>>
>
> An interesting comment for someone who has told me what level of detail
> I
> prefer (despite the fact that I have never stated my belief in this
> matter).
>
> << My cops will have more skills than yours, but less than Mark's. >>
>
> Yeah, but my cops can beat up your cops. And my police captain can yell
> louder than yours. <LOL>
>
> << My goal is provide an afternoon of enjoyment by telling a good story -
> WITHOUT REGARD TO POINTS. >>
>
> To quote Cartman... "That's what *I* said." :D
>
> <<< However, if we are having a discussion about a 'Realistically
> Detailed'
> (as Mark refers to the concept) teacher, then you must acknowledge that
> PS:
> Teaching and Skill: Teaching are not the same thing and should be regarded
> separately.>>
>
> Hey, I do. I hear you, man. I'm right there with you! ;) My cops could
> still beat up your teachers, though. :D
>
> Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:40:51 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 41
5th Group? I think one of your SFA teams still has my snorkel gear. ;-)
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Nunn [SMTP:mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 1:31 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
>
> God loves the Infanty....
>
> Michael
>
> 501st PIR
> 101st Airborne
> 72nd Ranger Batt
> 5th Group Special Forces
>
>
> Rising Force Publications
> Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web
> site...
> http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
>
> "You have never lived until you have almost died.
> And for those who fight for it,
> life has a flavor the protected never know"
> - anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:04:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 43
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
> << The 'Mechanic' skill is posessed by any back-yard auto mechanic... It
> covers
> fixing cars, and that's it. >>
>
> Oh, boy. That's not correct. Mechanics covers "mechanical devices and... how
> to repair, replace and build them." That can cover a lot more than just cars.
> In fact, in the description, it mentions modifying a car engine to power a
> boat. :)
Poorly worded. My bad. Replace 'cars' with 'stuff' and you have what I
/meant/ to say - i.e that 'Mechanics' covers fixing stuff, and not all the
things that PS: Auto Mechanic covers.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:35:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net (Unverified)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 44
>> Agreed. WotD presented a 'mixed bag' of characters - from the barely more
>> than starting PC all the way to what a highly experienced 'super' martial
>> artist would be.
>
>Yeah, but some of them 'super' martial artists are way of the scale (there
>are two 800+ point characters in the book)
But wouldn't you expect that from the "World's Greatest" super-martial
artist? I still wonder if Lin Hu's 80 point VPP is enough to simulate all
the martial arts powers of legend! I don't mind the odd 800+ point villian
(or hero); it's when the point levels are consistantly 400+ that it bugs me.
WotD had martial artists from pretty much all ends of the 'super' martial
artist scale, which was fine by me.
>> Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
>
>Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
Yeah. So?
>Heh... love Gossamer Storm's artwork... looks like the artist used Minka
>as a figure model.
Indeed, very nice...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,10-12
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:35:24 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 45
> For the system as it currently stands, the teacher without the PS
>would
>probably just need Familiarity with Acting (so it looks like he's
>doing a
>good job) and Forgery (to make his papers look like they're legitimate
>-- a
>stretch of a use for that Skill, but what else are you going to use?).
Contacts/Favors might also work -- both to get the job and to get the
teaching certificate (anyone can pass a certification test if they
already have the answers, no roll required IMHO).
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:38:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 46
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
>
> >PS: Knight - Under your argument, this should cover fighting (a basic,
> >job-related task of the profession).
>
> I have no ready answer for this one, but nothing I've objected to so far
> has anything to do with combat, so I'm not certain that catches me in an
> inconsistency. I may have to think about this.
Well, is fighting not a basic, job-related task of the 'Knight'
profession? How about the 'Gladiator' profession, or 'Soldier'? In all
of those cases, someone in that profession who did not know how to fight
would certainly not be able to perform the basic tasks of the profession.
With regards to your 'nothing I've objected to so far has anything to do
with combat' - why should it be any different when it involves combat? If
PS: Knight or Gladiator /doesn't/ cover fighting, then isn't that claiming
(as you say below) that 'PS means one thing if the profession it
represents is "important" and something else if the profession isn't
"important".'?
> >PS: Mechanic - under your argument, this should cover how to fix a car.
> >But the HERO system already has the 'Mechanic Skill', so PS: Mechanic
> >ought to cover all the job-related stuff that isn't part of 'Mechanics'.
<snip>
> I do
> consider the separate Skill to be subsumed under the PS in many cases.
So in your system, PS: Private Investigator would subsume Interrogation,
Deduction, Investigation, Shadowing, Bureaucracy, and all the other
skills related to Private Detecting? That's quite a deal. Why would I
want to pay 5 points for Deduction skill if I can get all the other stuff
packaged into the same roll for the same price?
> If I take PS: Plumber for 2 points and it covers all aspects of my job, but
> PS: Mechanic does not, shouldn't I be entitled to a price break on PS:
> Mechanic? Say a -1/2 Limitation, Requires Additional Skills. It isn't
> good enough on its own...I can't do the job unless I have these other
> Skills to go with it. That doesn't make sense to me, and neither does
> claiming the PS means one thing if the profession it represents is
> "important" and something else if the profession isn't "important".
If I were a backyard mechanic, and became a professional, shouldn't I get
a price break on PS: Mechanic because I already have the skill? If not,
I'm paying twice for the same thing.
See my PS: Private Investigator above. Shouldn't that cost /more/,
because it encompasses so much more stuff? It covers 4 or 5 skills -
perhaps more, depending on how you stretch it.
PS: Cat Burglar would likewise, under your system, seem to encompass
Stealth, Lockpicking, Streetwise, a bit of Merchant...
How about PS: Fast Food Cook vs. PS: Brain Surgeon? A neurosurgeon has to
spend years and years in training, and must have lots of specialized
knowledge to do what he does. Shouldn't it cost more, because it
encompasses so much more than how long to leave the fries in the oil?
It seems to me that you are treating "Professional Skill' as some kind of
massive package deal that encompasses literally everything that might be
done by a particular profession, even if there are other skills for it in
the game. I think that approach is pretty inconsistent, /and/ it means
that you effectively cannot build certain types of characters - a teacher
who can't teach but has tenure, for example, or even a character who is
much better at one aspect of their profession than another.
Under your system, all professional mechanics that are good at fixing cars
are /also/ good at paperwork, operating the register, dealing with the
state bureaucracy to get their certification, etc. Under your system, all
professional programmers are equally good at both hacking code and doing
all the procedural stuff that comes along with being a programmer. I can
assure you from experience that this is not the case.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:13:55 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA25783
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 47
Message text written by BILL SVITAVSKY
>They don't match my style, and I prefer to create distinctive
worlds from scratch anyway. If I'm going to put the trouble into
running a campaign world, I want the world to be mine (and my
players', of course) through and through.<
Could you explain a little how your style differs from that of all the
published Champions NPCs?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-5.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.135
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:13:59 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA25826
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 50
Message text written by "Tim R. Gilberg"
> Well, I'm always up to pull Viper in. At least a minor incident
every other game. Genocide is being saved with only hints at what they
are up to, same for Demon. Terror, Inc is nice for a lighter villian
group. I've also gotten some use from the Crusher Gang and Grab.<
Could you give some examples of the "minor incidents" that you use to keep
Viper visible in your campaign?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:14:05 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA25791
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 48
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> This is not one of Hero Games' -- nor Andy Robinson's -- best efforts,
but at the same time it's far from the worst. While the scenarios
themselves are generally rather weak and the NPCs mostly uninspiring,
there's an extremely helpful opening article on scenario design, and the
scenarios to help spark "ways of thinking" that just wouldn't occur to many
of us. And, despite what I say above, most of the scenarios are good
enough to run as a quick knockoff when you don't have anything else to do
(though some adjustment would be needed for many campaigns).
If this book were larger (and more expensive), I'd say pass on it.
Since it's one of the smaller (and less expensive) books in the Hero Games
line, however, I do recommend it.<
I've used a few of the adventures in Challenges for Champions, but some of
them I don't think I'll ever use. However, I absolutely love this concept.
I would really like to see another book like this, only with more
"regular" superhero adventure ideas. One thing I've noticed is that so
many authors are concerned with making adventures that are unique, that
really we have a shortage of "standard, straight-from-comics" adventures!
>>* Invaders from Below
When I look at how much I like a supplement, the question I ask myself
is, "What will this contribute to my campaign?" A good supplement will
furnish new rules, interesting characters (either new or updated),
background material, or inspiration for scenarios. Despite the fair amount
of work and thought that evidently went into it, this book provides none of
the above, at least from my viewpoint.<
I think running the invasion could be fun, but my problem with this book is
that the villains are mostly lame. Maybe if I made my own villain team and
reworked the "grunts" from this book, it would be more appealing. Anyway,
I ran two of the "foreshadowing" adventures from this book but never got
around to doing the invasion itself.
>* The Olympians
My take on this book is similar to IFB; however, I don't find it quite
as utterly useless. In fact, the only reason I find it as useless as I do
is because I have no plans on using the Greek gods in my campaign at any
level. It does, in fact, provide some material that I can use as
background, and I can see a couple of possibilities for individual
encounters. Your campaign could probably make better use of it than mine.<
I have no interest in using Greek gods (I'm not interested in Thor or
Hercules in Marvel Comics, either), but I thought that if somebody gave
this a fantastic review, it might be worth another look.
> CP1 is a trio of scenarios that are designed to be run back-to-back
(not
in any particular order, though a recommended procedure is given).
Spectrum, by Scott Sigler, is more useful for the supervillain group it
provides than for the scenario itself (in fact, one of the scenarios on my
website uses them). The second, No News of a Thaw, is an odd little piece
by Phil Masters using Inuit mythology; I didn't care for it, but others'
opinions may differ. The third, Menace Out of Time, is a time-travel piece
by Dean and Dana Edgell, and suffers only from its lack of interaction with
the rest of the Champions Universe (as these all do).<
I ran the adventure with Spectrum (I saw your adventure on your web page,
but haven't read it yet), and I definitely would like to use this team some
more. The time travel adventure looks nice, but I also was a little put
off by No News of a Thaw (by the way, Phil Masters used to be a regular
contributor in the Hero Games area on CompuServe, but I don't know if he's
still there), I think because of the weird mystic theme. My campaigns and
my taste in comics have never included much in the way of magic.
> In CP2, Stan West gives of MAVRIC; Timothy Keating treats us to Murder
in Stronghold, and Cliff Christiansen gives us COIL. That Stan is the
creator of CLOWN is reflected somewhat in his scenario about a
self-actualizing computer, though he makes good use of foreshadowing and
recurrence. Timothy's treatment of a murder mystery at Stronghold is
probably the best superhero mystery done to date. And as for Cliff's take
on COIL, well, it also shows that he's one of the co-authors of the widely
(and deservedly) lauded VIPER sourcebook. Would it help to say that I'm
making use of all three of these sections in the early stages of my
campaign?<
I have CP2 but haven't looked at it very closely...it looks like I need to
dust this one off real soon.
>* Pyramid in the Sky
This is another one of the books that is interesting to read even if you
never actually use it in a game. It's designed as three scenarios that
could be run separately, but are designed to be best run in sequence. It
starts with something just a notch above street-level, and gradually
escalates to the foiling of a horde of invading aliens. The street-level
villains and the aliens are really the most interesting parts of the book;
in fact, the two alien races shown would be fun additions for a
high-powered Star Hero campaign (after the fashion of Star Trek: Voyager,
which currently has to deal with Borg, Hirogen, and Species 8472). One
could also read it straight through and treat it like a novel; secrets and
surprises are well-timed in the narrative, revealing them to the
straight-through reader at about the same point that they'd be revealed to
the PCs.<
For some reason I was put off by Pyramid in the Sky when I looked at it in
the store, but maybe I'll give it another look.
>* Watchers of the Dragon<
It sounds like an interesting book, IF you want a lot of martial arts
action. My campaigns usually have more of an Avengers flavor to them,
though, so martial arts is not an especially featured archetype. I prefer
battlesuits and energy blasts.... The problem is, I think my players are
interested in martial artist heroes, so I probably need to bring more of it
into the campaign.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.137
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:14:35 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA25838
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 49
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> More Enemies books? Maybe reworkings of the Enemies books by origin
type (aliens, high tech, mutants, etc.), but I don't think we need a whole
lot beyond that. Any other characters (new or updated) should probably be
limited to Ultimate books, geographic sourcebooks, and similar works.<
I don't think my appetite for Enemies books could be satiated. Even though
there would be too many villains to use, it's still fun to look at the
pictures, read the backgrounds, and most importantly to use them as
examples of how to make your own characters. I certainly hope there are
more Enemies-type books on the way. Maybe if they did more along the lines
of the Zodiac book, which has less villains but more info about them?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:19:28 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 51
Sounds like Sgt. P. *is* the stuff that legends are made of...
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Nunn [SMTP:mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 4:17 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
>
> >Maybe, but Joe Lumberjack or Joe Trapper would clean up on either of
> them.
> >Wilderness folk are tough, oy vey...;-). For example, my cousin, who
> skipped
> >a chainsaw off a tree, into her leg, through chainmail pants. Way cool
> >scar...That's right, HER. Nowadays she works for the Ministry of the
> >Environment, directing firefighting efforts in the summer, and animal
> >control in the winter...did I mention the packs of wild dogs? Makes
> soldier
> >boys look sissy by comparison - and she tells me stories about the tough
> >people she's met :-) :-) :-).
> >
> >Oh, and not all comic book artists are pushovers. Fred Perry (Gold
> Digger)
> >in particular was a soldier before pursuing his current career...
>
> Sissy's... gee I think those are fightin' words :-)
>
> I have to admit some soldiers aren't not the toughest people in the world
> but I can tell you from personal experience that some of the toughest,
> meanest, most dangerous people in the world are in the Military.
>
> For example...
>
> Take the case of Sgt P. name deleted to protect the guilty :-)
>
> Sgt P played football at Alabama, he was Navy SEAL. During the invasion
> of
> Panama he was shot, his wound caused him to be discharged from the Navy.
> He
> healed and joined the Army and went to Special Forces Q course. He was a
> semipro body builder, he spent two tours as a Drill SGT. I saw him
> personally clean out a bar full of Marines and members of the 24th Infanty
> Division. I saw him pick up a 200 pound plus Marine with one hand around
> his neck and smash him into the wall hard enough the guy was knocked out,
> he
> then hit him with the other hand... This wasn't TV wrestling it was real
> life. Kinda looked like the WWF, but alot more painful.
>
> Sissy huh?
>
> Oh yeah, SGT P. is a Fire Jumper when he goes home.
>
> Michael
> Rising Force Publications
> Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web
> site...
> http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
>
> "You have never lived until you have almost died.
> And for those who fight for it,
> life has a flavor the protected never know"
> - anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-2.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-2.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.132
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:20:23 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Champions Universe
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA26259
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 52
I'm trying to get a better feel for why people weren't happy with Champions
Universe. I flipped through it last night, and there were several areas
that got me excited, but that may just be the nostalgia of seeing all the
old books mentioned in one place. It's fun to just read through the
glossary in the back, and I think the art (mostly from Storn Cook) is
generally more exciting than the usual fare. With all that said, I haven't
read the gritty details of any section of this book, and I haven't tried to
run a campaign based heavily on CU (I use the published NPCs and
adventures, but in the past have not done a good job of tying them
together), so maybe I haven't been in the position to see where it fails.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Test..
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:42:41 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 54
>
> So how is things? Anyone place any Star Trek related games in HERO?
>
> Laters..
>
> Mike
>
> ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
> ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
Well, i know some guy on here was doing a cross between TNG and the DC
universe in PBEM format, and some other guy just finished a really nice
Vehicle Sourcebook for hero plus (or is that digital hero) oh, and i've got
a set of
three dimensional air combat rules designed specifically with ST and SW in
mind,
but my hard drive crashes every time i finish it- and it's only a text
file! :-<~
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Equipment
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:01:16 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 59
Hmm. . well, i'mdoing a set of superheroic level games which nevertheless
have bulk equipment involved. i've given each player a 40 pt vpp bought
around the comcept of grabbing stuff you see invarious ways. So, if you
pick up an agentsblaster, it becomes part of your vpp if oyu have
sufficient points. This allows for a deal of
'heroic' gun-toting without an overload of equipment i have to 'tax' every
few sessions.
I even allow pc's to occasionall go past the vpp active point limimts for
this pool-
to represent very powerfuly but chrinocally unreliable stuff they may come
across.
> I was wondering how other peoople handle equipment and the
> points spent for it.
>
> For me it depends on the type of campaign that I am
> Gamemastering. If the campaign is a superheroic game then I feel
> compelled to make up the equipment as a character going through all the
> list of it's powers, advantages, and disadvantages. This way if a
> Villian or Hero acquires the item I now how much it is relatively worth.
>
> However, for more Heroic and low point level campaigns I don't
> worry about the cost of equipement as much. If the character picks up a
> gun, I just say "fine you have the gun" and it does whatever the gun
> does.
> What brings this up is the fact that I was looking through a
> copy of the never published Star Hero 2nd edition and they had listed in
> it how much it would cost to give a ship of certain sizes artificial
> gravity. The question is, outside of a Supers campaign why would this
> matter? Am I wrong in thinking that it would be okay and not unbalancing
> to just say "fine your ship has artifical gravity"?
> I know that as GM I can make what ever rule that I want, and
> I'll do that anyway, but how do other GM's out there do it.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo scud.pronet.net.au from cgtmljon@pronet.net.au server @scud.pronet.net.au ip 203.34.103.243
Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: "JASON SULLIVAN" <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:07:50 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 56
----------
> From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Test
> Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 5:05 AM
>
> Hi. Anyone getting this?
yup, me! hmm, anyone getting *this?*
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:15:49 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 66
At 04:26 AM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
>cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
>
>> Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
>> doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
>> Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
>
>Hmmm... I diubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
>proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
Actually, I have some notes and several HeroMaker files for a Far East
Enemies book which would include the entire Tiger Squad, the Pacific Guard,
and several villains and others in an area stretching from Korea to Papua
New Guinea. But that one's going to have to wait while I finish off other
projects....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:21:27 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 74
At 03:28 PM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
>Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
>
>Message text written by Bob Greenwade
>> More Enemies books? Maybe reworkings of the Enemies books by origin
>type (aliens, high tech, mutants, etc.), but I don't think we need a whole
>lot beyond that. Any other characters (new or updated) should probably be
>limited to Ultimate books, geographic sourcebooks, and similar works.<
>
>I don't think my appetite for Enemies books could be satiated. Even though
>there would be too many villains to use, it's still fun to look at the
>pictures, read the backgrounds, and most importantly to use them as
>examples of how to make your own characters. I certainly hope there are
>more Enemies-type books on the way. Maybe if they did more along the lines
>of the Zodiac book, which has less villains but more info about them?
Well, I am in the process of working up an update for VOICE, which will
not only update the original characters from VOICE of Doom but also
introduce several new ones and update at least a couple from other sources.
Given your above statements, I think that you will like this one.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:25:09 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 73
At 01:11 AM 4/15/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< I don't think we can look forward to much in the way of licensed products
>in the Hero System; most are taking Fuzion. >>
>
> Really, Bob? Is that so? I'm sorry you feel that way. I certainly hope that
>our announcement this summer will change your mind. ;)
If you're going to announce a licensed product using the Hero System
from a previously published setting, then I can tell you right now that it
will. And to state that I will be quite pleased to have it would be quite
an understatement (well, depending on what that setting is, of course).
><< while I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do with it, I do intend on
>getting it published in some form, almost certainly through either Hero Plus
>or GRG. >>
>
> Ahhh... more proposals. Good. Good! ;)
I'm just not sure which. It depends somewhat on what else I want to do
with that setting.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
To: DBStallard@compuserve.com (David B Stallard)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 57
> >They don't match my style, and I prefer to create distinctive
> worlds from scratch anyway. If I'm going to put the trouble into
> running a campaign world, I want the world to be mine (and my
> players', of course) through and through.<
>
> Could you explain a little how your style differs from that of all the
> published Champions NPCs?
>
I can't say for the above person; but I can guess.
Feel?
I know for me they often just don't 'feel' right. We all have a
certain mood we assign to the genre. Unless you sync with someone's elses
genre interpretations, it's just going to feel wrong.
When I play in the CU I feel I'm in a X-Men/Avengers crossover
comic. Well, my style prefs are more like an Impulse/Astro City crossover.
CU is an agent heavy world. More so than any of the comic book
universes. Even Marvel. However, it also has several Marvel like elements.
Stronghold, Primus, Viper, Genocide, Mechanon. These all have direct links to
Marvel equivelants. Though the Marvel versions, even Shield (Primus) are not
as prevelant.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:28:25 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Cop on 200 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 67
At 12:54 AM 4/15/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< As soon as L&O comes out, my PCs who have law enforcement backgrounds are
>going to wave it in my face and demand ridiculous package deals so that their
>characters are as effective as "Joe." >>
>
> Then you can wave it right back at them and point to the sections that say
>"...with GMs approval..." "Optional" and so on. Come on, folks. It's one
>example of how to do it. Can we please get over this paranoia and panic mind
>set? :D
We can't help it. We're Americans. ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.ucsf.edu from dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu server @mail.ucsf.EDU ip 128.218.95.23
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
To: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
cc: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 58
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Goode, Jason wrote:
> Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a week,
> will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
That is interesting. I would have assumed that that would depend on what
you were able to lift before starting training, wouldn't it? Not to
mention the sort of weight training you were doing.
> > I've assumed a sort of dead-lift/whole-body lift for the STR chart, since
> > a 100-kg (220-lb) bench press would be way above "average"...
--Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
* DOS. *
* *
* --Izzy to Gabriel *
* THE PROPHECY II *
*************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:40:57 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 72
At 11:51 PM 4/14/1998 -0500, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
>>> > How about PS: Lousy Teacher? Such a PS would cover all the paperwork,
>>> > administrative stuff, knowledge of the school districts, etc - but it
>>> > would impart no actual ability to teach.
>
>I wanted to address this separately, since PS: Entrepreneur isn't
>appropriate in this case. PS: Teacher should in fact be a measure of an
>individual's ability to teach, though you can certainly opt to make it
>characteristic-based. That would give a range of abilities dependent on
>the teacher's PRE (or EGO or INT, however you choose to define it) and how
>many points s/he spends to improve the base roll.
This gives me a thought that I think I'll toss out for consideration:
For the basic 2-point, 11- PS, the character can handle the basics of
the profession (paperwork, license applications, and such).
For the 3-point, Characteristic-based PS, the character can do that
*and* handle the basic performance of the profession.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:42:29 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 61
<< Regardless, my teachers get more respect and appreciation than your cops >>
Oh, man.. that's cold.. <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:46:34 -0700
To: champ-l@omg.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 71
At 09:43 PM 4/14/1998 -0400, Daniel Pawtowski wrote:
>
>AverageMan:
> 75% Damage Reduction, +20 PD/ED, Only vs 'unusuall' damage.
>
> Averageman is immune to the mighty blasts of Dr. Destroyer, but has to
>be very careful when crossing the street.......
Outch. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
X-Sender: nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:48:44 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us (Bill Svitavsky)
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 53
It seems to me the confusion in this debate is resulting from people trying
to interpret Professional Skills as consistent with one another and with
the real world. They're not consistent, for the complicated reasons of game
balance.
Tim Gilberg argues that there should be a separate skill for Writing,
probably PRE-based. There are, after all, analogous skills for Acting,
Oratory, etc. In general principle, I agree. In fact, if I were playing
Lost Generation Hero or somesuch I might make the skill as a house rule.
But in most games, it's entirely reasonable (and within the rules) to make
PS: Writer encompass both professional savvy and the ability to write.
Why? Because writing doesn't often have an effect on adventuring - this is
the "Hero" system, after all. Sure, a clever player might occasionally
write a diatribe to expose or infuriate the villain, might write a love
sonnet to win over an NPC, etc., but there's less opportunity for these
acts than there's likely to be for those other useful PRE Skills.
And yes, actual practice of a skill _is_ within the rules for PS. The BBB
clearly states (on page 35) that "A plumber with PS: Plumbing... could fix
a broken pipe."
The confusion results because some professions require an "ability" skill
(Acting, Computer Programming, etc.) as well as a PS, thereby making the PS
more representative of professional savvy exclusively. This makes sense
from a game balance perspective, however; the writer gets to buy two skills
in one because the character concept is not particularly convenient for an
adventurer.
I'm using Writing skill here primarily as an example. The same goes for
other non-adventure oriented skills like PS: Teacher, PS: Lawyer, etc.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Politics in the game...
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:54:37 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 64
Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a
distinctly liberal bent to them (IMHO). Does anyone run
their games more middle of the road or conservative?
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:00:47 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Tough? Lemme tell you about tough...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 68
At 03:16 AM 4/15/1998 -0500, Michael Nunn wrote:
>Take the case of Sgt P. name deleted to protect the guilty :-)
>
>Sgt P played football at Alabama, he was Navy SEAL. During the invasion of
>Panama he was shot, his wound caused him to be discharged from the Navy. He
>healed and joined the Army and went to Special Forces Q course. He was a
>semipro body builder, he spent two tours as a Drill SGT. I saw him
>personally clean out a bar full of Marines and members of the 24th Infanty
>Division. I saw him pick up a 200 pound plus Marine with one hand around
>his neck and smash him into the wall hard enough the guy was knocked out, he
>then hit him with the other hand... This wasn't TV wrestling it was real
>life. Kinda looked like the WWF, but alot more painful.
>
>Sissy huh?
>
>Oh yeah, SGT P. is a Fire Jumper when he goes home.
I want to see his write-up. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-10.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-10.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.140
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:03:09 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Geographic sourcebooks
Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA00884
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 62
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> More Enemies books? Maybe reworkings of the Enemies books by origin
type (aliens, high tech, mutants, etc.), but I don't think we need a whole
lot beyond that. Any other characters (new or updated) should probably be
limited to Ultimate books, geographic sourcebooks, and similar works.<
I forgot to mention this before, but I don't see much use for geographic
sourcebooks. I know I'm talking to the wrong guy, since you have Northwest
Champions on your plate, but I don't see the value in having all of these.
Maybe one of them would be good, if you plan on basing your game in that
geographic area, but the others will only rarely get used, on the off
chance that your PC group travels from their base region. I've seen on
this list that the UK Champions book (I forget the exact name) is a very
popular one, but I can't bring myself to buy it because I don't want to
base a campaign in England--thus, it would have minimal impact on my
campaign. The same thing goes for the Champions of the North and European
Enemies. I would much prefer to have writeups that aren't
geography-specific, so I can plop them anywhere I want.
If anybody can convince me to pick up any of the above-mentioned books (or
any that I left out), I'll be delighted, but right now it seems like they
would be fairly useless to my campaign, unless I ripped out the villain
writeups and "Americanized" them. For international flavor, previous books
have supplied Red Doom, Eurostar, and, uh, that one group with a 4-armed
guy as leader and a hippie member named Flower (can't remember what book
they are in). I'm not sure that I need volumes and volumes of "outsiders",
though.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:08:18 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: New Rules: Inactive Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 69
At 01:58 AM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
>Cc: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: New Rules: Inactive Skills
>> While I like the theory, I'm not sure I grasp the mechanics.
>
> I'll try to explain.
>
>> Suppose Captain Glory finally gets around to using his Archaeology
>> degree, and goes out on a dig in England to uncover Camelot (something that
>> happened in actual play, by the way). How many points would he have needed
>> for an 11- Roll beforehand? How does he change the Skill from Active to
>> Inactive? Does the Roll change, or the cost?
>
> A skill taken as Inactive, for a starting character, is _FREE_.
>However, as soon as it is attempted to be used in any way regularly
>(beyond the one-time plot point, "Gee, I remember a way out of this mess
>from my days as a Rutabega Salesman!") it requires the expenditure of XP
>to get it to whatever level it was bought at. This could get a character
>in XP trouble quick, as they will never be able to spend it freely if
>they're always buying off Inactive Skills.
So let me see if I've got this....
In his earlier career as an archaeologist, Cap had a 14- Roll (based on
his INT of 23) in Sci: Archaeology. When he goes to England, he doesn't
have to pay points for it, but as he brushes up on it he'd have to buy the
Skill? (IOW more or less like he was buying it from scratch, but with a
different Special Effect.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:09:03 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Stupid Heroes (was The Average man...)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 75
At 12:32 AM 4/15/1998 -0700, Chad Riley wrote:
>Not to get completely off the subject but this thread title reminds me of
one of
>our fav. Silly supers NORMAL MAN! He was completely normal except that he
had a
>booming voice and a PRE of 50. He made many low end villains wet their
pants and
>he was fearless he'd run into burning buildings to save a lady's potted
>plant......
>
>Other Stupid heroes were:
>Captain Invincible who, like NORMAL MAN, had base stats except for PRE
(20) and
>he had Telepathy (or mind control I can't remember) 15d6 always on AE that
made
>people think he was immune to all harm. He was killed by a team mate who
tried to
>smash a villain into his invulnerable teammate at superspeed.....SQUISH
>
>Armor Man: whose armor was OAF; he had a big red button on his chest that
said
>EJECT BUTTON. He was often shot out of the back of his armor in round one.He
>latter bought down the Limitation but not being the brightest genius
inventor, he
>bought it to IAF and scribbled over EJECT BUTTON with "This in not an EJECT
>BUTTON".
It reminds me somewhat of Snark, a hero with the words "HIT ME" written
on the front of his costume. He had a VPP that could duplicate any power
or ability that he'd already been hit with (only once per hit, and for the
exact same damage roll).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo brain.proaxis.com from cpartridge@proaxis.com server root@brain.proaxis.com ip 206.163.142.1
X-Sender: cpartridge@proaxis.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:09:07 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Camille Partridge <cpartridge@proaxis.com>
Subject: Suggested incremental damage idea
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 63
This is an idea for an "incremental" damge house rule for the Hero system.
This is partially in response to the recent discussion about critical
hit options. I would suggest using this house rule instead of a critical
hit option in a heroic level game that uses hit locations. I could also
be used without hit locations in a super level game.
The basic concept is that a "better" to-hit roll should increase the
damage that is done.
If you roll 2/3 or better of your to-hit roll, all 1's rolled on damage dice
would become 2's. Similarly, if you rolled 1/2 or better of your to-hit
roll, all 1's and 2's on damage dice would become 3's. This pattern
continues for 1/3, 1/4, and 1/5 of your to-hit roll. Here is a table
with the numbers calculated out for those who think better that way:
(n) (2/3 n) (1/2 n) (1/3 n) (1/4 n) (1/5 n)
to-hit 1->2 1,2->3 1,2,3->4 1,2,3,4->5 1,2,3,4,5->6
------ ------- ------- -------- ---------- ------------
3 - - - - -
4 3 - - - -
5 3 3 - - -
6 4 3 - - -
7 5 4 - - -
8 5 4 3 - -
9 6 5 3 - -
10 7 5 3 3 -
11 7 6 4 3 -
12 8 6 4 3 -
13 9 7 4 3 3
14 9 7 5 4 3
15 10 8 5 4 3
16 11 8 5 4 3
17 11 9 6 4 3
18 12 9 6 5 4
19 13 10 6 5 4
20 13 10 7 5 4
21 14 11 7 5 4
22 15 11 7 6 4
23 15 12 8 6 5
24 16 12 8 6 5
25 17 13 8 6 5
For example, assume that your to-hit roll is 12-:
If you roll 13 or above, you miss (just like always).
If you roll 9 to 12, you do the same damage as always.
If you roll 7 or 8, all 1's on your damage dice get changed to 2's.
If you roll 5 or 6, all 1's or 2's get changed to 3's.
If you roll 4, all 1's, 2's, and 3's get changed to 4's.
If you roll 3, all 1's, 2's, 3's, and 4's get changed to 5's.
What do you (plural) think?
Larry Woestman (sharing an account with my wife)
Camille Partridge
Gaelforce Scottish Terriers
cpartridge@proaxis.com
http://www.proaxis.com/~cpartridge
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
X-Sender: nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:26:40 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us (Bill Svitavsky)
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 55
David B Stallard wrote:
>Message text written by BILL SVITAVSKY
>>They don't match my style, and I prefer to create distinctive
>worlds from scratch anyway. If I'm going to put the trouble into
>running a campaign world, I want the world to be mine (and my
>players', of course) through and through.<
>
>Could you explain a little how your style differs from that of all the
>published Champions NPCs?
Hmmm... Style is always a tough thing to pin down, but I'll try.
In part, my style changes from campaign to campaign. I ran a rather dark
superhero game a couple of years ago where all the supers had a common
origin in a fertility drug used a couple of generations back, and the
existince of superbeings had fundamentally changed society. (The former
U.S. consisted of a bunch of small city-states ruled by superbeings.) The
supers all had certain shared traits (characteristic minima, an ability to
detect one another, etc.) and had grown up in a society where they were
virtual aristocrats. The supers were also prone to psychological extremes
and drastic physical deformity, and powers often (but not always)
represented in similar ways, so that one speedster might have some unusual
similarities to another.
But what I was really thinking about is more subtle than that. My
characters (PC's and NPC's) tend to represent my own tastes and interests.
One of my villains might expouse a political view which greatly offends me;
another might take a philosophy I believe in to an extreme. Sometimes my
sense of humor comes through in my characters - most of my games have some
satirical exaggeration to them.
There are various other reasons I prefer to create my own worlds. The
Champions Universe is strongly Marvel-influenced, while I've always been
more of a DC reader. (Though I've read plenty of many publishers over many
years.) The Champions Universe also suffers from inconsistencies inevitable
in any shared universe - no real common structure to psionics or magic,
hundreds of aliens with no clearly defined relation to one another, etc. -
which I can avoid by creating a world entirely according to my vision.
What's really important to me is that every one of my NPC's is a character
I can really get into. It's not impossible for me to get into someone
else's creation, but I just feel like the world is more consistent and more
truly mine if I've created it from scratch.
This might be somewhat unusual in a Champions GM (though I've noticed
several others on the list seem to be similarly inclined), but it's
actually the default view of most _players_. It's unusual for a player to
run a character someone's created; it can be fun, and it works well for
certain types of scenario, but there's a loss of a certain amount of
creative control. I tend to feel the same when I'm game mastering.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
To: DBStallard@compuserve.com (David B Stallard)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 65
>
> I'm trying to get a better feel for why people weren't happy with Champions
> Universe. I flipped through it last night, and there were several areas
It's not that we don't like it; it's just that we have our own
stories to tell. Keep in mind that anyone who's been doing Champions since
before the 4th edition has been doing it since before there was any official
universe.
Before that point, some of the various books made attempts to tie into
each other; but it wasn't all established as a set reality.
So all us old geezers got used to doing it on our own. And, things
being what they are; we prefer it that way.
You could give me a universe that's the coolist thing since sliced
bread (like an Astro City license, which will never happen due to the author's
desires), and I'd still use my own.
Why?
Cause it's mine.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-4.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-4.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.134
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:30:28 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Soliloquies
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA02065
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 70
Soliloquies take no time in combat. Does this mean that characters can
talk back and forth to each other at any time? In the past, I have allowed
characters to make soliloquies only on their phase, because sometimes the
PCs can relay information back and forth to each other too quickly if I
don't (they could have a whole conversation between one move and the next).
Is this a good practice, or should I allow a character (PC or otherwise)
to say as much as they want, whenever they want? For instance, say BadGuy
uses an Armor Piercing attack on GoodGuy. Should GoodGuy immediately be
allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out, BadGuy's laser completely
ignored my armor!"?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:36:00 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: X 2 effect magnetics
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@sysabend.org"
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 60
What is the offical ruling on the following question:
A character that takes 'X2 effect: magnetics' being thrown by
TK with the Sf/x of Magnetism would be affected as the equalivent weight
capacity of the TK X2 or the equavalent STR of the TK X2?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.137
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:53:26 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA03746
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 77
Message text written by Brian Wong
>You could give me a universe that's the coolist thing since sliced
bread (like an Astro City license, which will never happen due to the
author's
desires), and I'd still use my own.<
I don't think that's the general philosophy, though.... From what I've
gathered, you and Bill Svitavsky (?) have your own worlds, but most others
use at least pieces of the Champions Universe. As for myself, I don't have
the time or inclination to create my own world when I know I can't do any
better than what's out there. I do have time, though, to twist and mold an
existing world to suit my tastes.
> So all us old geezers got used to doing it on our own. And, things
being what they are; we prefer it that way.<
I've been playing off and on since 2nd Edition, but I don't feel that
Champions Universe has serious conflicts with any campaign I've been
involved with. Maybe because those campaigns have been really loose
(probably too loose) in defining the world. I'm not trying to defend CU
(heck, I use the C:NM setting anyway, and might change to San Angelo when
it arrives), I'm just trying to get a feel for why people feel it did a bad
job of cementing the Champions universe.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
To: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Bob Greenwade)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 78
> >> Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
> >> doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism, Taoism,
> >> Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
> >
> >Hmmm... I diubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
> >proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
>
> Actually, I have some notes and several HeroMaker files for a Far East
> Enemies book which would include the entire Tiger Squad, the Pacific Guard,
> and several villains and others in an area stretching from Korea to Papua
> New Guinea. But that one's going to have to wait while I finish off other
> projects....
Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a bunch of
anime movies.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:59:37 -0700
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 76
At 01:30 PM 4/15/98 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>For instance, say BadGuy
>uses an Armor Piercing attack on GoodGuy. Should GoodGuy immediately be
>allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out, BadGuy's laser completely
>ignored my armor!"?
>
Sure. It's totally in-genre. Characters can make speeches of virtually
infinite length while the action in the panel takes less than a second.
Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" goes into some depth on the peculiar
time-distortions which the comic medium imposes.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
To: andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com (Andreano, Keith HIM, VA)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 80
>
> Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a
> distinctly liberal bent to them (IMHO). Does anyone run
> their games more middle of the road or conservative?
Really? You found them liberal?
I found them a bit conservative myself.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel14.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel14.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.64
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:06:02 -0400
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 79
At 01:30 PM 4/15/98 -0400, David B Stallard wrote:
>Soliloquies take no time in combat. Does this mean that characters can
>talk back and forth to each other at any time? In the past, I have allowed
>characters to make soliloquies only on their phase, because sometimes the
Soliloquy takes no time. However, Conversation takes considerable
time. The Soliloquy rule was created, I believe, with the intention
of mimicking the stereotypical superhero banter that goes on during
a battle ("Hah! You didn't think I would fall for THAT, did you?!")
As soon as they start having discussions with each other, or with
the bad guys, it is no longer soliloquy (Look it up in the dictionary),
but conversation. Conversation, IMHO should never be allowed during
combat (unless you actually want to draw it out, one line per action
phase).
As far as the timing for soliloquy, I'd say if it sticks to the intended
purpose, it doesn't really matter whether the speech occurs on an action
phase or in between.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo owlnet.rice.edu from chip@owlnet.rice.edu server @owlnet.rice.edu ip 128.42.49.7
X-Authentication-Warning: snowy.owlnet.rice.edu: chip owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:08:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
Reply-To: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 85
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, David B Stallard wrote:
> Soliloquies take no time in combat. Does this mean that characters can
> talk back and forth to each other at any time? In the past, I have allowed
> characters to make soliloquies only on their phase, because sometimes the
> PCs can relay information back and forth to each other too quickly if I
> don't (they could have a whole conversation between one move and the next).
> Is this a good practice, or should I allow a character (PC or otherwise)
> to say as much as they want, whenever they want? For instance, say BadGuy
> uses an Armor Piercing attack on GoodGuy. Should GoodGuy immediately be
> allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out, BadGuy's laser completely
> ignored my armor!"?
It is incorrect to say that soliloquies take no time in combat, and belies
a common false impression of how to interpret the Champions time system.
A 0-phase action is not something which takes 0 time (although it can be),
but is often something which can be done *at the same time* as other
actions. This is the case with soliloquies. Similarly, two half phase
actions should in most cases be interpreted as actions happening at the
same time. One day I'll dig up my articles on this, but I've been having
some trouble finding them.
But I found this, a discussion of alternatives in interpreting speaking
during controlled time.
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:09:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: RP: Talking and Linking
On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brad Allen wrote:
> >>Doran: <<Why don't you try handling the Kaphadorian the way you
> >handled
> >>his friend, Golth?>>
> >
> >Golth: <<Hmmm... That might be worth a try. Vax, do you think you
> >could grab his hands after I get him in a headlock? That way he'd be
> >less likely to try anything funny.>>
>
> Lyrdon: <<Whaaat?! CHOKEHOLD? This is a #$#!@ baby-f**ing @!#%*
> demon-$@#$@%er with unknown ass-kicking powers. KILL! KILL! KILL!!! >>
>
> Lyrdon: <<Deep breath. I'm calm now. I'm waiting with the door open a
> crack. I don't want to spoil the surprise. Golth, as soon as you I hear you
> attack I'm coming in to back you up. I recommend someone, perhaps Marcus or
> Doran, deal with Fanz by explaining to him what's happening and telling him
> to yell to his family to get out of the house, which is no longer safe. If
> he sides with the Kaphadorian, Marcus might need to shoot him in the leg.>>
{ Wow, I really must be getting better at my mind link! ;) GM, am I right
in assuming that we can only get short phrases across to each other in the
middle of combat, assuming we don't want to blow phases? Or does it work
at the speed of thought? Certainly the mind link overcomes most language
barriers, but does it overcome temporal barriers as well?
{ Talking is a 0-phase action, but that doesn't mean that it takes no
time; it can and does, however, occur simultaneously with other actions in
a phase (you know, talking and walking at the same time). A strictly
realistic approach to talking in combat would allow players to speak no
more than they could say in the number of seconds allocated to their
current phase. So if Lyrdon were the micro-machine man, he might find some
way of saying the above in three seconds, but then there are no guarantees
of comprehension! However, using this strict approach, we also run into
the problem of simultaneous conversation; assuming someone wanted to say
something in a phase, no one else could speak in an overlapping phase
without talking over him. And even further into reality, unless someone
can anticipate what they think you're going to say in advance, they
shouldn't be able to act on it or respond until a following phase.
{ Relaxing the constraints of realism a bit, we can move to the more
dramatic comic-book battle conversations. "Die! Foul Fiend!" and "Where
have you taken Mary Jane!" are some examples, although you find the
occasional "You and your pathetic Super-Team are doomed to failure, for I
am the Mighty Lord Destroyer of Annhilation!!" These overlook simultaneous
conversation and time constraints, and to some extent the temporal mapping
of phases onto seconds, preferring instead to make each phase like a frame
in a comic book. Final Fantasy Tactics gets even more liberal with
speech--characters carry on entire philosophical conversations during
their action phase... "Wiegraf! You're alive!" "Ah, Lynx, so good to see
you again." "You've given up your ideals and become a dog for the church!"
"You don't know how hard it is to fulfill your ideals without power! No
matter how strong your will, it's not enough. You need power to make it
happen!" "You say that, but even if you had perished and failed, there
were people who believed in you, who followed you. They trusted your dream
for a better future and you betrayed them. And for what? For the empty
promises of the Cardinal? Strange bedfellows, you and the Shrine
Knights... Miluda would be ashamed if she saw you now." "How dare you
speak of betrayal! It was YOU, you and the Hokuten, all nobles who
betrayed us! We fought and died to free Ivalice from invaders, and your
brothers, and the Prince, turned thier backs on us. And it was you who was
the dog, eager to please your brothers by wiping us out! But now, the
Shrine Knights have given me the power to return the favor. Miluda will be
avenged!" <act>
{ Did I mention that Final Fantasy Tactics is a F***ING AWESOME GAME!?!??!
Doran/Dusty would really love that game. Awesome, complex, and intruiging
story, superb music, good gameplay, and not-bad graphics to boot. }
{ Anyway, back to the talking issue. The rule of thumb I follow in my
campaigns is 25-35 words per phase, with no attention paid to talking over
someone else. More generally, this means any number of people can talk in
a phase and say 3 times as much stuff as they would normally say in that
time frame, and others can act on it even in overlapping phases, to hell
with reality. Lyrdon stepped outside even those generous bounds, though,
so I thought I'd bring the issue up.
{ I'm not trying to pick on Brad, though. Given Lyrdon's hyper state, he
may very well be speaking as quickly as possible. Anyway, having brought
up the issue, we can get the GM's official word on it. }
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:12:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 81
> > Well, I'm always up to pull Viper in. At least a minor incident
> every other game. Genocide is being saved with only hints at what they
> are up to, same for Demon. Terror, Inc is nice for a lighter villian
> group. I've also gotten some use from the Crusher Gang and Grab.<
>
> Could you give some examples of the "minor incidents" that you use to keep
> Viper visible in your campaign?
Streetwise characters get some word that they've been behind a few
of the latest whatevers. They've been in a running turf war with the
Mafia. They hit some industrial/technical target quite frequently. They
are caught running drugs on the pier. They are sponsering certain street
gangs. They ambush some characters that they are hunting. (I'd say 50%
of the PCs in my various campaigns have been hunted by Viper, and close to
that by Genocide. I make all Mutants take Detects as Mutant and Hunted By
Genocide)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
Cc: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&>
Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:14:00 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 84
Well, after I left the military, I let myself go all to hell. I completely
stopped exercising, put on 40 lbs., etc. I don't know why, I just did.
I then decided that enough was enough, and that my wife was probably going
to start looking for a new mate if I didn't get my act together. So, I got
a bud who was a Phys. Ed. teacher at a local community college to work with
me. I bought a really good bench, an Olympic bar, about 300 lbs worth of
Olympic iron plates, and dumbbells from 5 to 30 lbs (I tend to go
overboard). He came over every Saturday morning and worked me for about 1.5
hours. That's it. I didn't touch the stuff or during the week. At the
start, I was definitely pushing my limits to bench 95 lbs. After 3 months,
I was benching over 200. Might have been due to having been in good shape
before, or a genetic predisposition to responding quickly to muscular
overstressing. Then again, it might have just been working hard for those
1.5 hours every week.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis C Hwang [SMTP:dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:33 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Stainless Steel Rat; Champions
> Subject: RE: The Average man...
>
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Goode, Jason wrote:
>
> > Interestingly, I can attest that weight training for only 1.5 hours a
> week,
> > will get you to that level in about 12 weeks.
>
> That is interesting. I would have assumed that that would depend on what
> you were able to lift before starting training, wouldn't it? Not to
> mention the sort of weight training you were doing.
>
> > > I've assumed a sort of dead-lift/whole-body lift for the STR chart,
> since
> > > a 100-kg (220-lb) bench press would be way above "average"...
>
> --Dennis
> *************************************************************
> * dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
> *************************************************************
> * So...you're keeping me alive because you don't know *
> * DOS. *
> * *
> * --Izzy to Gabriel *
> * THE PROPHECY II *
> *************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-10.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-10.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.140
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:14:10 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Wish List
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA04999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 83
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> Well, I am in the process of working up an update for VOICE, which will
not only update the original characters from VOICE of Doom but also
introduce several new ones and update at least a couple from other sources.
Given your above statements, I think that you will like this one.<
Seeing as I never had the original VOICE book, it'll all be new to me!
Heck, I can't even remember what sort of organization VOICE is... It's
things like this where the Champions Universe book comes in handy--I'll
have to look them up tonight.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:15:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 82
> I'm trying to get a better feel for why people weren't happy with Champions
> Universe. I flipped through it last night, and there were several areas
> that got me excited, but that may just be the nostalgia of seeing all the
> old books mentioned in one place. It's fun to just read through the
> glossary in the back, and I think the art (mostly from Storn Cook) is
> generally more exciting than the usual fare. With all that said, I haven't
> read the gritty details of any section of this book, and I haven't tried to
> run a campaign based heavily on CU (I use the published NPCs and
> adventures, but in the past have not done a good job of tying them
> together), so maybe I haven't been in the position to see where it fails.
I like its "Where are thay now?" type of stuff. It introduced the
Crusher Gang, which has been very big in my games. I also like the
various info in the back where it at least gives names of some unpublished
heroes and teams. I'm going to write up the Bayou Brigade, one of these
days.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Paranoia! WAS: "Joe Cop..."
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:25:57 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 89
>>example of how to do it. Can we please get over this paranoia and
panic mind
>>set? :D
> We can't help it. We're Americans. ;-]
One look at our Federal Government and you know why! ^_^;
"No matter how paranoid you are, you're not paranoid enough!"
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:26:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: New Rules: Inactive Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 86
> So let me see if I've got this....
> In his earlier career as an archaeologist, Cap had a 14- Roll (based on
> his INT of 23) in Sci: Archaeology. When he goes to England, he doesn't
> have to pay points for it, but as he brushes up on it he'd have to buy the
> Skill? (IOW more or less like he was buying it from scratch, but with a
> different Special Effect.)
Right. Though most GMs would make him, if buying it from scratch,
spend a few game sessions "studying". This is just a method to add to the
background of the character without the GM saying, "Wait a minute, you
said you studied Astronomy, but you didn't buy it on your sheet. Get rid
of two points of Stun and take the Science Skill."
These are noted, but never really come into play. If they do,
they have to be paid for like normal skills.
For example, in my college courses I have gained 8- KSs in quite a
few areas, though I don't really remember too much right now. However, by
picking the book back up and looking through it or my notes, I could
quickly be back to that 8- familiarity stage. I took Spanish in high
School and my Freshman year of college. I've lapsed and don't remeber too
much, but when I hear Spanish I find it coming back. If I'd spend just a
little time, I'd be back to my old proficiency.
So I'd have the following:
Pts Skill Roll
0 KS: World Religions(IA) 8-
0 KS: Political Theory(IA) 8-
0 SS: Geology(IA) 8-
0 SS: Human Biology(IA) 8-
0 SS: Psychology(IA) 8-
0 Spanish, 2pts (IA) -
See?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
To: DBStallard@compuserve.com (David B Stallard)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 87
>
> Soliloquies take no time in combat. Does this mean that characters can
> talk back and forth to each other at any time? In the past, I have allowed
Yes. It's to simulate the comic book feel of having a whole lot of
dialogue per panel.
> characters to make soliloquies only on their phase, because sometimes the
> PCs can relay information back and forth to each other too quickly if I
> don't (they could have a whole conversation between one move and the next).
> Is this a good practice, or should I allow a character (PC or otherwise)
> to say as much as they want, whenever they want? For instance, say BadGuy
> uses an Armor Piercing attack on GoodGuy. Should GoodGuy immediately be
> allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out, BadGuy's laser completely
> ignored my armor!"?
If youur simulating comic books, yes. In reality, it's darn hard to
waste breath on useless chit chat when all your adrenaline is pumping to
keep you alive and your lung are breathing so much they'll likely burst whilst
your heart rate has doubled or tripled. Which is what any long lasting hand to
hand fight ends up like.
A ranged combat, or a short hand to hand might be a bit different
however. I've personally not experienced many of these so my expertise there
is somewhat limited. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Players & GMs in Northern Virginia!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:31:01 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 93
I still want to run/play in a champions game. Since I live in
Northern Virginia, I'm looking for players/GMs in the area.
I received a few responses about this before, what I want to
do now is finalize (if possible) just who is interested and
available to play/GM Champions in the area. We would also
need to set a meeting place/times, etc. RSVPuma! Thanks!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:35:49 -0700
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
bob.greenwade@klock.com (Bob Greenwade)
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 88
At 10:56 AM 4/15/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
> Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
bunch of
>anime movies.
>
>
You mean those AREN'T historically accurate sources???
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
To: lizard@mrlizard.com (Lizard)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bob.greenwade@klock.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 91
> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
> bunch of
> >anime movies.
> >
> You mean those AREN'T historically accurate sources???
Ok. Enough of that from the peanut gallery.
If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the
next in this area.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:42:18 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 90
David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> wrote:
>>>
Message text written by Brian Wong
>You could give me a universe that's the coolist thing since sliced
bread (like an Astro City license, which will never happen due to the
author's
desires), and I'd still use my own.<
I don't think that's the general philosophy, though.... From what I've
gathered, you and Bill Svitavsky (?) have your own worlds, but most others
use at least pieces of the Champions Universe. As for myself, I don't have
the time or inclination to create my own world when I know I can't do any
better than what's out there. I do have time, though, to twist and mold an
existing world to suit my tastes.
<<<
Thanks for spelling my name right, David! That's a rarity.
I can certainly understand why you (and others) make use of the
existing characters and materials; some days I wonder why I make
so much work for myself.
But for me, creating my own material is ultimately one of the biggest
plusses of the Hero System. I like the world-indendence of the
system, letting me make things work the way I want them to. This
can be simply creating a superhero whose powers work the way I
think they should, or it can extend to a Fantasy Hero game with a
distinct magic system, or even to a campaign which doesn't quite
fit any established genre.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:48:22 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Professonal Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 94
Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
>
> This gives me a thought that I think I'll toss out for consideration:
> For the basic 2-point, 11- PS, the character can handle the basics of
> the profession (paperwork, license applications, and such).
> For the 3-point, Characteristic-based PS, the character can do that
> *and* handle the basic performance of the profession.
I don't agree with this. I agree with the interpretation that PS as
written in the current rules already gives you the ability to perform the skill,
with the exception that 'particularly useful skills' such as computer programming
ALSO require you to buy the skill separately.
Curt Hicks
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel14.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel14.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.64
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:49:14 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 96
At 11:00 AM 4/15/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>>
>> Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a
>> distinctly liberal bent to them (IMHO). Does anyone run
>> their games more middle of the road or conservative?
>
> Really? You found them liberal?
>
>I found them a bit conservative myself.
>
I'm going to have to read those things a little more closely.
I haven't noticed any particular political agenda.
I do know that as most of the players in our group are more
conservative (libertarian, actually), we have a habit of playing
it that way.
There are exceptions. I find that we play most city officials
as pathetically liberal. (oops. redundant.)
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.137
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:50:39 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA07270
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 97
Message text written by Bob Greenwade
> My current cast of regulars include:<
Wow, even in alphabetical order. You must keep some organized campaign
notes. Who is Card Shark? What book does he appear in?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:51:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 95
Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
up against an interesting problem...
I want to have a 'Gambler' type character whose special powers are random,
based on poker hands. How I'd like to do it is this:
The player gets dealt a 5-card hand. He makes the best poker hand he can
out of it. If he wants to, he can use that hand right then for the
effect, or next turn he can take an action to discard and redraw up to
three cards.
Each hand would have a completely different effect (and a different power
level, for that matter - the rarer the hand, the more powerful the effect)
(Oh yeah...getting the 'Dead Man's Hand' - black aces & eights - triggers
a rather nasty attack pointed at the PCs)
So...what's the best way to handle something like this in HERO? (i.e. how
should I work the limitations?) I loathe the idea of just waving my hand
and saying 'it works', especially because it's a power only for this
character. (If everyone had it, I'd be more likely to do that).
Any help would be much appreciated. Here's some thought's I've had.
* Figure the probabilities of each hand. The difficulty here is that the
probabilities are drastically altered because of the 'draw' thing - given
enough time, he could always get a royal flush. I might be convinced to
drop the 'draw' ability if I could find an elegant enough solution.
The trouble here is that the Activation only gotd to 8-...maybe multiple
activation rolls to get the right %? Then again, there's a slight
advantage in that he can start gathering the power and
* Figure the amount of extra time that each hand would take to get, on the
average, and charge based on that.
* Buy all the powers fueled off of an END reserve, and mimic the drawing
of cards by putting points into the END reserve (somehow). Maybe each pip
of END would have limitations. It'd be pretty ugly.
Ideas?
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:57:25 -0700
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Cc: bob.greenwade@klock.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 92
At 11:40 AM 4/15/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
>> bunch of
>> >anime movies.
>> >
>> You mean those AREN'T historically accurate sources???
>
> Ok. Enough of that from the peanut gallery.
>
>If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
>sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the
>next in this area.
>
Hey, do it! I suspect there really is good demand for "Champions Of The
East" or the like, and if you can manage to mesh *accurate* cultural flavor
with the paradigms of RPGs, it will be quite a feat.
I suspect a lot of the problem is that people writing gaming books look to
other gaming books as sources. How did GURPS China and GURPS Japan come out?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:03:46 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 98
As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
to use my own material.
I do like to read through the published material now and then.
I'm sure those of you who regularly use it know and appreciate
the characters better than I do. I'm curious to hear what
characters people really like. In the comics newsgroups, people
can rattle on endlessly about the concepts and doings of their
favorite heroes & villains; who catches Champions fans fancy?
To me, a lot of the most prominent characters don't seem all that
inspired. Dr. Destroyer is a thinly disguised Dr. Doom, Mechanon
is Ultron, and even Foxbat (whom I like) is only a few steps
removed from Ambush Bug (maybe not an imitation, but a conscious
effort to create one of that type.) What Champs characters stand
out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
While I really don't know these characters all that well, I do
think Black Paladin and the Slug are pretty good concepts; they'd
make passable villains in published comics. I also liked the
woman nobody noticed in the Horror Enemies (I think) book.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: More supplement reviews
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:04:57 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 102
>Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
bunch of
>anime movies.
But Japan is just like in anime!
Aliens, Giant Robots, Space Ships,
and hoards of hot babes with big, umm, EYES!
At least that's the way us otaku would like it! ^o^
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:06:33 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Cc: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA08388
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 100
Thanks for all the responses on this so far, but let me get more specific
with my question:
In the middle of combat, what if a PC1 asks a question of PC2? Would you
require PC2 to wait until his phase to respond, or allow him to respond
immediately? If he can respond immediately, then the PCs can essentially
discuss tactics while the villains sit by and wait for time to "start up"
again.
In a related question, do you use "table talk" in your game, where anything
the player says is assumed to be something his character says? If so, then
the players couldn't relay ideas to each other "offline" and implement them
immediately. If not, then it would seem that their characters immediately
came up with a complex battle plan without saying a word to each other.
Maybe this is where coded maneuvers (like "Cannonball Special" or "Manuever
#9") come in handy....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:09:14 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 99
<< Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a distinctly liberal bent to
them (IMHO). Does anyone run their games more middle of the road or
conservative?>>
Now this is an interesting observation. Do you have any examples?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:13:18 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 103
<< Should GoodGuy immediately be allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out,
BadGuy's laser completely ignored my armor!"? >>
I think this depends on how you want your games to go. Simulating the comic
books (with all that that entails <G>) would lead one to conclude that that
use of solilogues would be perfectly acceptable. For one thing, it prevents
the villain from getting blasted before he reveals his nefarious pla to the
PCs.
"...and there's nothing any of you can do to stop me! Bwah hah hah hah!"
<BLAM!>
Thud.
"...oooo... maybe I spoke too soon..."
<LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: Scott Nolan <nolan@pop.erols.com&> "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Players & GMs in Northern Virginia!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:33:24 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I live just outside of DC (near Wilson Bridge) and I work
in Reston. I will eventually move closer to work. So the
Reston area (or anywhere in convenient driving distance)
would be fine with me. It all depends on where the other
players are though! ^_^;
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Nolan [SMTP:nolan@pop.erols.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 3:04 PM
> To: Andreano, Keith HIM,VA
> Subject: Re: Players & GMs in Northern Virginia!
>
>
>
> Where in Northern Virginia?
>
> Scott
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> She loves me all that she can,
> And her ways to my ways resign;
> But she was not made for any man,
> And she never will be all mine.
> Edna St. Vincent Millay, Witch-Wife, 1917
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Scott C. Nolan
> nolan@erols.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mars.superlink.net from why@saturn.superlink.net server root@mars.superlink.net ip 204.97.220.9
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
To: jeffj@io.com (Sakura <jeffj@io.com&>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:33:30 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.com
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
> up against an interesting problem...
Does this mean it's an actual published senario you are working on? If so
then my version of hand waving will not work:
> I want to have a 'Gambler' type character whose special powers are random,
> based on poker hands. How I'd like to do it is this:
>
> The player gets dealt a 5-card hand. He makes the best poker hand he can
> out of it. If he wants to, he can use that hand right then for the
> effect, or next turn he can take an action to discard and redraw up to
> three cards.
>
> Each hand would have a completely different effect (and a different power
> level, for that matter - the rarer the hand, the more powerful the effect)
Use a multipower for all of the combinations. Each slot is an ultra. Put
the following limitations on the MP: -1/2 Only one power may be used at a
time, -1 slot switched based on hand. Include in the multipower a slot
called: Does nothing (1u: change environment, no perceptible change 1", 1
END) and assign all useless hands to it.
Now, in play, use a real deck. Every time the player draws a hand,
determine which MP slot becomes activated, charge the END cost (thus the
reason for "Does nothing"), and let the power happen. Why did I choose
-1? Because it seems simple enough. Multipower slots are so small in
points that there is not difference between a Royal Flush (120 Active
points = 12u, -3 Lim = 4u and 12u, -1 Lim = 6u) and King high (10 Active =
1 u) It should average out in the end. If this bothers you give really
rare hands (4 of a kind and higher) an addition -1/2 on the slot cost.
Don't let it be more than -1 for the slot switch since the player can
choose the "Does nothing" slot.
"Does nothing" has the added bonus that if you decides to fold the hand it
still costs him END.
As I'm thinking about it, the "Does nothing" slot could also be called the
"Draw slot": since it allows the character to draw up to 3 more cards.
Hope that helped,
Joe
P.S. Don't call him Gambler, Call him Stud, that's the game he's playing.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo22.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo22.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.66
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:34:02 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
sourcebook. >>
There are two venues for such a book... ;)
<< The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the next in
this area. >>
Agreed. That's a good part of the reason we're developing Sengoku. Of
course, that's a bit different genre than Champions, but hey...
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo15.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo15.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.37
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:13 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Surely just 8- for the rank and file. Only officers get the full skill.>>
Tactics is the small unit stuff. In my old unit, the brass wasn't tactically
bright at all. But the troops... now *they* knew how to move, shoot and win!
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 19:44:07
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 101
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:50:47 -0500 (CDT), Michael Nunn wrote:
>This for the most part is me. I used my military backgound as a base and
>did this write-up. There are several KS I might have been able to give
>myself but I tried to stay at or near 100 pts.
Surely what follows is for a SAS/Green Beret type?
>Standard US Army Infantry Solider
>
>13 STR 3
>14 DEX 12
Surely 11 DEX 3 for +1 CV?
>13 CON 6
>10 BODY 0
I'd give a 11 BODY 2 here.
>13 INT 3
Nope. Plain 10.
>11 EGO 2
Yes.
>13 PRE 3
Nope: there are plenty of soldiers who don't qualify; in fact, being a
squaddie gives a negative in many situations.
10 PRE 0
>10 COM 0
>5 PD 2
Only 1 extra here
4 PD 1
>4 ED 1
What's the justification for this?
3 ED 0
>3 SPD 6
Nope, SPD 2 - because of higher DEX, they go first.
2 SPD 0
>6 REC 0
>26 END 0
>24 STUN 0
>Characteristics Cost: 38
Char cost 17
>2 PS: Job Before Joining Military
Not necessarily - many join straight from school.
>3 PS: Military Speciality
Just 2 points, surely.
>2 KS: Hobby 11-
>1 Paramedic 8-
>3 Tactics 12-
Surely just 8- for the rank and file. Only officers get the full skill.
1 Tactics 8-
>1 Computers 8-
Questionable.
>1 Orienteering 8-
Yes
>1 Weapon Permit
Not necessary.
>1 PERK: Top Secret Security Clearance
Ditto.
>2 +1" Running 0
Why? The extra Stun and End are good enough.
>5 1 Levels: Small Arms,related group
Skilled troops only. Remember that normal civilians don't even have
Familiarity, and so a soldier is +3 OCV
7 points in Skills and 17 in Stats so far
>44 PKG,"Soldier"
>(7) WF,Grenade Launchers,Heavy Machine Guns,Rocket Launchers,
> Man-Guided Missiles,Small Arms,Knives
Yep, but call it WF: Military weapons for 2 points
>(2) KS: Military 11-
>(2) KS: Military History and Customs 11-
So far so good.
>(12) Commando Training
Hmmm.... This would make him a black belt, per NH. I'll be generous and
allow two manoeuvers for 6 pts
>(3) Climbing 12-
>(3) Stealth 12-
>(3) Survival 11-
>(1) TF,Parachuting
:}
>(3) Navigation 11-
No, you've already got Orienteering.
>(3) 1 Levels: w/3 related weapons (M16A2, M249 Saw, M9 9mm
> Barett,tight group
Nope, specialists only - see earlier comments.
>(2) PS: Forward Observer 11-
I'd put this under Tactics.
>(3) Rappeling 11-
I'd suggest Familiarity if at all.
So, 23 points for the Package.
>Powers Cost: 66
>Total Cost: 104
Powers cost: 30
Total cost: 47
Now round out with an extra language, or a KS.
Disadvantages would be Subject To Orders (10), and Watched: Service 14-
(15)
Your writeup would be fine for a Green Beret/SAS type, but not for a
squaddie.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 19:50:06
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Knights
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 104
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:44:04 -0500 (CDT), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>You seem really willing to give an awful lot just with the PS. By
>this estimation, PS: Doctor will be enough to do any and all medical
>procedures
With appropriate equipment and practice; PS: Brain Surgeon would be
another Complimentary Skill, but an 'ordinary' doctor faced with having
to operate on a brain tumour in the field would still use his PS:
Doctor as a CS to his Medic skill. True, he might have a -5, but it's
better than nothing!
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:57:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
> > Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
> > up against an interesting problem...
>
> Does this mean it's an actual published senario you are working on? If so
> then my version of hand waving will not work:
Eh? No, only for me and my tabletop group. I might put the results up on
the web if enough people are interested, but I don't have the time or the
energy to try and get licensing from Square and Hero, let alone write
it up as an 'official' book...
> Use a multipower for all of the combinations. Each slot is an ultra.
The trouble here is that to have a really powerful 'Royal Flush' attack
you have a lot of wasted points. I suppose I could partially limit the
Multipower pool at the higher levels...but that puts me back at the 'how
much limitation' stage.
> Put
> the following limitations on the MP: -1/2 Only one power may be used at a
> time, -1 slot switched based on hand. Include in the multipower a slot
> called: Does nothing (1u: change environment, no perceptible change 1", 1
> END) and assign all useless hands to it.
Actually, in keeping with the Final Fantasy games, 'High Card' is going to
be a sort of booby-prize minor healing effect.
> Now, in play, use a real deck. Every time the player draws a hand,
> determine which MP slot becomes activated, charge the END cost (thus the
> reason for "Does nothing"), and let the power happen. Why did I choose
> -1? Because it seems simple enough. Multipower slots are so small in
> points that there is not difference between a Royal Flush (120 Active
> points = 12u, -3 Lim = 4u and 12u, -1 Lim = 6u) and King high (10 Active =
> 1 u) It should average out in the end. If this bothers you give really
> rare hands (4 of a kind and higher) an addition -1/2 on the slot cost.
What bothers me is having the player spend so many points for a
power he might never get to use. I think the minimum I'll go with on the
high-level powers is Activate 8- (-2) and NCC (-2) - that would make it
seem to be rare enough...
> Don't let it be more than -1 for the slot switch since the player can
> choose the "Does nothing" slot.
Actually, I'm saying he has to use the best hand possible, just to keep
things simple. The Gambler has little control over his magic...
> "Does nothing" has the added bonus that if you decides to fold the hand it
> still costs him END.
'Fold' would only cost him the actions - but there's little reason to do
that, unless he doesn't want to pay the END for the 'high card' healing
effect...
> P.S. Don't call him Gambler, Call him Stud, that's the game he's playing.
Actually, it's 5-card draw. 'Gambler' is the name of the (for lack of a
better term) 'character class' - the player will of course choose the
name.
Thanks for the help!
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Politics in the game...
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:58:15 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>I'm going to have to read those things a little more closely.
>I haven't noticed any particular political agenda.
Some don't show it, some do a little, some its blatant.
I sensed it as an overall trend though (maybe its just my
paranoia :)
Depends on the author, of course.
>I do know that as most of the players in our group are more
>conservative (libertarian, actually), we have a habit of
playing
>it that way.
I do the same.
>There are exceptions. I find that we play most city officials
>as pathetically liberal. (oops. redundant.)
Same here too! ^_^;
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Politics in the game...
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:32:05 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
><< Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a distinctly
liberal bent to
>them (IMHO). Does anyone run their games more middle of the
road or
>conservative?>>
>Now this is an interesting observation. Do you have any
examples?
>Mark @ GRG
Good question. I'll look through some stuff tonight and either:
A) Post a list of examples that I found. Or...
B) Not find any and say that it was just my paranoia! ^_^;
Just for the record, I'm basically a Libertarian.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:44:12 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:34 PM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Champions Universe
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>I'm trying to get a better feel for why people weren't happy with Champions
>Universe. I flipped through it last night, and there were several areas
>that got me excited, but that may just be the nostalgia of seeing all the
>old books mentioned in one place. It's fun to just read through the
>glossary in the back, and I think the art (mostly from Storn Cook) is
>generally more exciting than the usual fare. With all that said, I haven't
>read the gritty details of any section of this book, and I haven't tried to
>run a campaign based heavily on CU (I use the published NPCs and
>adventures, but in the past have not done a good job of tying them
>together), so maybe I haven't been in the position to see where it fails.
Brian's and Bill's comments aside, the main problem with CU is in its
organization and application. It fails to do what San Angelo and C:NM have
since succeeded to do: explain *why* superpowers work, how they really
affect day-to-day life (though this is at least attempted admirably), and
draw most of the existing characters into a living, breathing, interacting
world.
A few specific faults:
1. The given timeline takes all of the adventures that had been
published to date, and put their events at about the time they were
published, most of them centering on the Champions' adventures but others
involving the Protectors or other NPC hero groups. It would have been much
better if the background events for most of them had been entered to lead
up to those times, but most of them left open-ended. (I do like the Day of
the Destroyer and the Assault on Sanctuary being in the history, though,
since they do affect other events.)
2. The characters provided should have been enough to base a campaign
around by themselves, and this was far from the case. Mostly it was a
couple of characters who had been mentioned as example characters in the
Hero System Rulebook, and updates of some old characters from 3rd edition
supplements.
3. Often characters, groups, or alien races are thrown together with
little attention given to how compatible their write-ups are. Specific
examples (and arguably the most blatant) include Lionslayer recruiting
Deathmask into VOICE (given their original write-ups, the two would be
enemies) and making Orion the Hunter from an alternate race on the same
planet as Obsidian (I can see plenty of reason to believe this to not be
the case).
4. Virtually every character and institution ever published by Hero
Games was included. This makes it had to practice forward-consistency; it
would have been much better (in my opinion at least) to only include those
characters and institutions that were actually created by the Hero Guys, or
by someone who doesn't mind having their creations become a part of the
Champions Universe on a continuing basis. (For the latter category we can
start myself; I think we can probably also include Chris Avellone, Patrick
Bradley, Sean Fannon, Scott Heine, Scott Jamison, Steve Long, Phil Masters,
Steve Perrin, and Andrew Robinson. I'd want to ask them, though, just as
I'd want to ask as many of the other one-time authors as I could find.)
Now, I've been of a mind to try my hand at a second edition of a guide
to the Champions Universe (a special Hero Plus edition specifically for
those of us who happen to like it, at least in principle or as a place to
visit). In fact, I've managed to talk Steve Peterson into letting me do
such a project, and I have a few notes down. I'm starting to have second
thoughts, though, given how tepid the response has been here about the book
and concept in general.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Cc: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Soliloquies
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:50:54 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
We only allow brief stuff: "Look out!" "Get above him!" "Don't touch
her!" "That one's mine!" "Flash its eyes!"
We don't allow letting them do stuff like: "Hey, you circle around and get
behind him. The two of us will try to maneuver him onto the manhole cover
so Sewer Urchin can hit him from below. Then the Incredible Bulk will jump
on top of his head and Fire Finger will finish him off!"
No table talk related to the current tactical situation is allowed unless
its a rules question, power use interpretation, a question about the
environment, or something like that.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David B Stallard [SMTP:DBStallard@compuserve.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 3:07 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Champions Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Soliloquies
>
> Thanks for all the responses on this so far, but let me get more specific
> with my question:
>
> In the middle of combat, what if a PC1 asks a question of PC2? Would you
> require PC2 to wait until his phase to respond, or allow him to respond
> immediately? If he can respond immediately, then the PCs can essentially
> discuss tactics while the villains sit by and wait for time to "start up"
> again.
>
> In a related question, do you use "table talk" in your game, where
> anything
> the player says is assumed to be something his character says? If so,
> then
> the players couldn't relay ideas to each other "offline" and implement
> them
> immediately. If not, then it would seem that their characters immediately
> came up with a complex battle plan without saying a word to each other.
> Maybe this is where coded maneuvers (like "Cannonball Special" or
> "Manuever
> #9") come in handy....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:53:48 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:45 PM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Soliloquies
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>Soliloquies take no time in combat. Does this mean that characters can
>talk back and forth to each other at any time? In the past, I have allowed
>characters to make soliloquies only on their phase, because sometimes the
>PCs can relay information back and forth to each other too quickly if I
>don't (they could have a whole conversation between one move and the next).
> Is this a good practice, or should I allow a character (PC or otherwise)
>to say as much as they want, whenever they want? For instance, say BadGuy
>uses an Armor Piercing attack on GoodGuy. Should GoodGuy immediately be
>allowed to yell to his teammates, "Watch out, BadGuy's laser completely
>ignored my armor!"?
It depends on the feel you want. The usual Silver Age practice was to
have characters able to say anything whenever they were interacting with
others -- when they made a move or attacked, they they got attacked, or
when another character (in one of the other two categories) addressed them.
The most blatantly ridiculous example that I can remember came when Ultra
Boy explained what he was doing with his freeze-breath *while* he was doing
it! And I think it was in the Golden Age that the original Captain Marvel
traded an "after you, Alphonse" with Junior while they teamed up to
overwhelm a gang of thugs.
If you want something more realistic in this sense, then reduce the
opportunities the characters have for talking. In a television or movie
type of setting, making a quick soliloquy would probably be a half Phase,
while a longer one would take a full Phase. Yours is closer to the
"animated television" style, where characters can speak up when they have
an action phase.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:57:05 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 07:07 PM 4/15/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>Message text written by Bob Greenwade
>> My current cast of regulars include:<
>
>Wow, even in alphabetical order. You must keep some organized campaign
>notes. Who is Card Shark? What book does he appear in?
Dark Champions.
(I also have some planned action from local La Cosa Nostra and yakuza
gangs.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:59:18 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Universe
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:42 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
>I don't think that's the general philosophy, though.... From what I've
>gathered, you and Bill Svitavsky (?) have your own worlds, but most others
>use at least pieces of the Champions Universe. As for myself, I don't have
>the time or inclination to create my own world when I know I can't do any
>better than what's out there. I do have time, though, to twist and mold an
>existing world to suit my tastes.
>
><<<
>
>Thanks for spelling my name right, David! That's a rarity.
B-I-L-L. What's so hard about that? ;-]
>I can certainly understand why you (and others) make use of the
>existing characters and materials; some days I wonder why I make
>so much work for myself.
>
>But for me, creating my own material is ultimately one of the biggest
>plusses of the Hero System. I like the world-indendence of the
>system, letting me make things work the way I want them to. This
>can be simply creating a superhero whose powers work the way I
>think they should, or it can extend to a Fantasy Hero game with a
>distinct magic system, or even to a campaign which doesn't quite
>fit any established genre.
Personally, I like both opportunities.
Using the Champions Universe is, for me, a lot of fun because there are
so many possibilities for what can be done.
On the other hand, I expect Chaos Theory to be a blast, since it will
all be from the most warped corners of my own imagination....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 17:10:31 -0400
Lines: 32
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> I'd have to disagree. Being unable to teach means you have to be
> better at "looking good". They'd have the 11- PS to get and keep the job,
> and nothing in "Teaching".
Back up. "PS: <insert job here>" is the skill required to perform that
job. "PS: Teacher" is the skill required to be a teacher.
Getting the job is another matter entirely. A lousy teacher (PS: Teacher
8- or worse) might have Acting sufficient to be a convincing liar, or the
schooll that hires him might be so desperate for bodies that they would
have hired anyone that applied. There are lots of reasons why an
incompetant teacher might be hired, but none of them change the fact that
"PS: Teacher" is the one skill required to *BE* a teacher.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCUAwUBNTUiRp6VRH7BJMxHAQG7CAP2PPZzR5sPeKuyBLS4fH8ewBv6UkPJN7Fq
EC7Hq13Iqw7s603Tx3OsqlSal8SAsnwCO7flE/t64B19WehXmSIw05m4O3HORlRZ
IX+LE0M6YH9Q7JQ+iIGJ3mtAjvWS5trL/wF1EV7d3OP8GPD+04xm42jgh9GMGfBA
nD43Z/ZRzQ==
=J6i8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:12:36 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:51 PM 4/15/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>
>Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
>up against an interesting problem...
>
>I want to have a 'Gambler' type character whose special powers are random,
>based on poker hands. How I'd like to do it is this:
>
>The player gets dealt a 5-card hand. He makes the best poker hand he can
>out of it. If he wants to, he can use that hand right then for the
>effect, or next turn he can take an action to discard and redraw up to
>three cards.
>
>Each hand would have a completely different effect (and a different power
>level, for that matter - the rarer the hand, the more powerful the effect)
>
>(Oh yeah...getting the 'Dead Man's Hand' - black aces & eights - triggers
>a rather nasty attack pointed at the PCs)
>
>So...what's the best way to handle something like this in HERO? (i.e. how
>should I work the limitations?) I loathe the idea of just waving my hand
>and saying 'it works', especially because it's a power only for this
>character. (If everyone had it, I'd be more likely to do that).
>
>Any help would be much appreciated. Here's some thought's I've had.
>
>* Figure the probabilities of each hand. The difficulty here is that the
>probabilities are drastically altered because of the 'draw' thing - given
>enough time, he could always get a royal flush. I might be convinced to
>drop the 'draw' ability if I could find an elegant enough solution.
>
>The trouble here is that the Activation only gotd to 8-...maybe multiple
>activation rolls to get the right %? Then again, there's a slight
>advantage in that he can start gathering the power and
>
>* Figure the amount of extra time that each hand would take to get, on the
>average, and charge based on that.
>
>* Buy all the powers fueled off of an END reserve, and mimic the drawing
>of cards by putting points into the END reserve (somehow). Maybe each pip
>of END would have limitations. It'd be pretty ugly.
This is an ugly problem, but not as ugly as you think.
Yes, figuring the probabilities of each hand and simply basing the
allowed Active Points based on that does allow him to eventually get a
Royal Flush with time. But the key phrase here is, "with time."
The END Reserve thing would be pretty awful too. Forget about it.
Doing something close to your second option would probably be ideal, if
you have the mathematical wherewithal to do it. Create an all-ultra
Multipower, with the Active Points on each Power based on the odds of
getting the appropriate hand (1/10 the odds, square root of the odds, or
whatever). Give the whole thing OAF: Poker Deck. If you're allowing a
Power for "nothing" (probably a small, cosmetic CE), then let that level
stand as-is; for each level from a simple pair on up, give a cumulative
-1/4 Limitation for "Must Have [Appropriate Hand] or Better."
You're probably thinking that this would be horribly messy in the
character creation process. You're right. The nice thing about character
creation in any RPG system, though, is that you only have to do it once.
If you have to go through a hairy time for character creation but the power
still works smoothly during actual play, then it'd be worth it (that's why
I recommended nixing the END Reserve idea; it'd be too much trouble during
play).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 17:13:55 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> But a KS doesn't give one ability, it gives one knowledge. And
> the study of teaching (Pedantics?) is a knowledge all of its own. This
> is a place for a new PRE-based skill, based off of Acting, Conversation,
> Oratory, etc.
Nah... Oratory is just a very good complimentary skill roll for PS: Teacher
(my dad was good at that :). Acting might be useful for the "wacky" type
of teacher. Conversation tends to be a one-on-one skill, not so good in
the classroom.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTUjD56VRH7BJMxHAQEZPAP+PIJxaZ1ykXQxXz/vpQ1UugVXolU/4p9o
TSpaqdRP7ssKxJFEFu54SSvEzLQxoq73y9Ufq0Nec2weEic9+KT/EWUaMCGxVDnR
0dHrCnZ/d7ppPwZhAuU6OEkqEoR2qUSZTbGaK3scXrsboYY3he6hXtLcuG3jAtoa
JrKOC4S3LPs=
=nhfM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:17:09 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:56 AM 4/15/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> >> Kinda cries out for a whole book devoted to say, Asia, for Champions,
>> >> doesn't it? You could throw the Tiger Squad in, discuss Bhuddism,
Taoism,
>> >> Zen, Shinto, Confucianism, etc...
>> >
>> >Hmmm... I diubt it would ever get written. Of course, my Wuxia Hero
>> >proposal was going to include some of these ideas.
>>
>> Actually, I have some notes and several HeroMaker files for a Far East
>> Enemies book which would include the entire Tiger Squad, the Pacific Guard,
>> and several villains and others in an area stretching from Korea to Papua
>> New Guinea. But that one's going to have to wait while I finish off other
>> projects....
>
> Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
bunch of
>anime movies.
Actually most of my current notes (which are basically just sketches)
come from the Britannica and World Book Encyclopedias, and periodicals
about individual countries put out by the US Department of State and the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, all of which was available at
my local library. I could do a little more research, but for such a large
scope not much more detail than what I've been doing would be needed.
(Remember, this is really supposed to be an Enemies book and not a regional
sourcebook, at least by my plan.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:19:11 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:40 AM 4/15/1998 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
>> bunch of
>> >anime movies.
>> >
>> You mean those AREN'T historically accurate sources???
>
> Ok. Enough of that from the peanut gallery.
>
>If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
>sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the
>next in this area.
Go ahead. I'd even be willing to share some of my notes, or trash them.
(I suspect that your full-fledged sourcebook would have a somewhat
different geographical scope than I had planned for my Far East Enemies
book.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 17:20:57 -0400
Lines: 44
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sakura writes:
> The 'Mechanic' skill is posessed by any back-yard auto mechanic - my
> father, for instance, would probably have it at a decent level. It
> covers fixing cars, and that's it.
Actually, "Mechanic" is a more general skill. It applies to repairing all
sorts of mechanical devices.
> PS: Mechanic would cover: ordering parts from NAPA, operating the cash
> register,
Um, no. A trained chimpanzee can run a cash register :).
> probably operating some of the 'professional-level' machinery, how to
> handle warranty stuff, how to do auto & emissions inspections, etc.
This is the skill that any auto mechanic will have, in addition to
Mechanics. It puts a lot of practical knowledge specific to automobiles in
the mechanic's posession.
Mechanics is the ability to fix a problem.
PS: Auto Mechanic is the ability to correctly diagnose the problem so that
it can be fixed efficiently, effectively, and correctly. It also covers
all the tools in the shop, so that the mechanic will use the most
appropriate tools for each step in the repair.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTUkuJ6VRH7BJMxHAQGQmAQAiD51nqyQ48beA4xPWyHV3EvD/B/JQprb
yspzdeGIL4OfjwvQTfHJdFw1HXQUv+/tdf12c3KcvTOclmZfmelX45FCtLxXtEmZ
6Tx7EKuAV2JjrEfip+39zA9IyCr6yjeVTQ8Nmgt62O0WmATkfqz9m7icFZIzk7dZ
2RcZO8b0ORc=
=TAV/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:21:25 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:54 AM 4/15/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a
>distinctly liberal bent to them (IMHO). Does anyone run
>their games more middle of the road or conservative?
I've generally tended to avoid political themes in my gaming, so I
really can't give you any concrete feedback on it. Once I get the
Justifiers campaign going, though, I'll be having a gently conservative
push in those cases where such themes do appear.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 17:22:38 -0400
Lines: 23
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Bob Greenwade writes:
> For the basic 2-point, 11- PS, the character can handle the basics of
> the profession (paperwork, license applications, and such).
That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTUlHJ6VRH7BJMxHAQEq8gP/YXepqQqKNV1CNRpViZ0CSNbgHNNkDb4/
JQT9sSxApMmkQIVeaJJXdcMXan5g4oV1EFZpM1g+lJURacK3UQu/GdLC9TE5FSsL
EVFCvDSvuUi4DcLl2xbEY434ysVzXNX25RfQwhgqx6duGzm2SaiX/yb8Qx0BKcCT
ls0mDFGGE2E=
=T0PQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Solider on 100 points?!?!?
To: GoldRushG@aol.com (GoldRushG)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> << Surely just 8- for the rank and file. Only officers get the full skill.>>
>
> Tactics is the small unit stuff. In my old unit, the brass wasn't tactically
> bright at all. But the troops... now *they* knew how to move, shoot and win!
>
I'd agree here. Officiers know strategy
("Johnson, send a few thousand of em in there and give me a body count when it's
all over. Somebody give my secretary those pretyped death notices so she can
stamp my name on em.") :)
But have no clue on which way a gun even points. :)
A pilot would have tactics for airial combat though. ussually
a few points under their brown nose skill. :)
Ussually an officer in a combat zone is a good sign somebody's going
to bite it. You want a high tactics skill, get yourself one of those grizzled
old Senior Msgt types.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
To: lizard@mrlizard.com (Lizard)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:46:18 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bob.greenwade@klock.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
> >> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
> >> bunch of
> >> >anime movies.
> >> >
> >If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
> >sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the
> >next in this area.
> >
> Hey, do it! I suspect there really is good demand for "Champions Of The
> East" or the like, and if you can manage to mesh *accurate* cultural flavor
> with the paradigms of RPGs, it will be quite a feat.
>
Well, first I'd have to get over being motified (whatever that is),
and get down to being 'motivated'. :)
> I suspect a lot of the problem is that people writing gaming books look to
> other gaming books as sources. How did GURPS China and GURPS Japan come out?
>
They were decent, and ocaisionally even accurate.
The problem is twofold.
1. Most westerners have very little clue on asia. That's the nature of our
society. By converse, most asian societies today study the west in
great detail.
2. Asia is a living breathing place. It's not today what it was 500 years ago,
let alone even 5 years ago. Most of the stuff I see on asia uses out
of date stereotypes that were hardly accurate to begin with.
I'd like to see a book on asia written by people who have lived there.
It's quite a rich place for both fantasy and super roleplay.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
To: NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us (BILL SVITAVSKY)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
> Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
> any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
> to use my own material.
Same here.
> I do like to read through the published material now and then.
Same here. I often buy the stuff in order to pillage it for my own
nefarious purposes.
> effort to create one of that type.) What Champs characters stand
> out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
I'm not sure. I'm trying over here, but I'm not yet coming up
with any among the major well known characters. I'm sure there are some
among the more obscure characters.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo teleute.com from naneiden@iswest.com server root@alex-va-n002c091.moon.jic.com ip 206.156.21.101
X-Sender: empulse@usa.net (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:53:43 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:51 PM 4/15/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>
>Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
>up against an interesting problem...
>
>I want to have a 'Gambler' type character whose special powers are random,
>based on poker hands. How I'd like to do it is this:
>
>The player gets dealt a 5-card hand. He makes the best poker hand he can
>out of it. If he wants to, he can use that hand right then for the
>effect, or next turn he can take an action to discard and redraw up to
>three cards.
>
The Hucksters from Deadlands are a lot like this, you should check out the
core rule book for a solid explanation of how their magic works through
drawing cards.
As I see it, you could go with something like this.
Character has a set of powers, either a VPP, or a multi-power, depending on
just how you want to represent the various abilities. Then take a look at
the various hands in poker (5 card stud is easiest) and determine what
portion of the active of the power the character can use for a given hand.
For example:
2 of a Kind 50% Active
3 of a Kind 60% Active
I don't have the rules for poker in front of me, the Deadlands book can
give you a good idea of the progression involved. The its just a question
of how much of a limitation the character should get for this. I think it
would be a rather big limitation, but YMMV.
Secondly, the character would have to have a Gambling skill. Failing the
skill Roll would give the character the standard 5 cards, nothing more.
Making the roll would allow the character to spend an extra phase
discarding up to 3 of the cards to make his hand. Finally, for ever 2 (or
more, depending) he makes the roll by, he's allowed to draw more cards to
create his 5 card hand.
Lastly, don't let him reshuffle the deck until he goes through the deck or
maybe crits his Gambling roll. That way the power will fluctuate the way
cards do. Unlike dice, you can run out of certain cards.
This might not be very clear, the Deadlands book does a better job of
explaining it.
-Nic
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "GoldRushG" <GoldRushG@aol.com&> "Sakura" <jeffj@io.com>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:00:36
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:53:35 -0500 (CDT), Sakura wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, GoldRushG wrote:
>
>> << My house rules also include the idea the if the Proffesional skill has
>> another applicable skill than the player must have that skill. For example:
>>
>> Player purchases PS: Computer Programmer. In this case the PS does NOT
>> help the player perform the skill, for that they need Computer Programing.
>> However, the skill does help the player know where to look for jobs, the names
>> of other computer programmers, and other such trivialities. >>
>>
>> Sounds good to me. In fact, that's the way I see PS also. ;)
>
>Hey, wow, my area. This is even better than 'Mechanic' and 'PS: Mechanic'
>that I just commented on.
>
>Computer Programming: Hacking code. Lots of people have this. I got it
> in college. What I /didn't/ have when I entered the workforce was:
>
>PS: Computer Programmer, which covers a lot of the 'procedural' stuff - in
>my case, how to use source control and bug tracking software, some
>familiarity with how the company's design process works, how the
>departments interact with each other, etc.
>
>Arguably, that skill should be PS: Computer Programmer for (Company), but
>that might be getting a bit /too/ specific.
OK, as a professional computer bod, I can't help but bite here. IMO the
PS covers both aspects, and the KS covers the *insight*. Someone with
just the PS will follow the procedures, do the documentation etc; but
someone with the KS as well will know when to bend the rules, when to
go beyond the normal etc. A 'geek' is someone who has the KS but not
the PS.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server @pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:03:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On 15 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> Bob Greenwade writes:
>
> > For the basic 2-point, 11- PS, the character can handle the basics of
> > the profession (paperwork, license applications, and such).
>
> That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
Actually, Bureaucracy is more 'general'. PS: Teacher would give no help
with filling out complex immigration forms, while Bureaucracy would. (And
if one had both PS: Teacher and Bureaucracy, one could use one as a
complementary skill to the other when filling out teacher-related
paperwork.)
Hmm. Maybe the PS should be regarded as a collection of very limited
skills. PS: Teacher would include 'Bureaucracy, only for Teaching-related
matters', among other things.
This would mean that the Mechanic skill is 'fix anything', while PS: Auto
Mechanic would let you fix cars and nothing else. Since PS: Auto Mechanic
covers more than just fixing cars, it helps keep both skills on a similar
level of how much is covered.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Brian Wong wrote:
> If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
> sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book to the
> next in this area.
Well, I will admit that my Wuxia Hero book is deliberaitly written with
anime and HK action in mind. It is not so much an Asia sourcebook, but a
sourcebook for HK (etc) action movies and how to adapt them to Hero.
Historically accurate? You must be kidding. Stererotyped? Possibly, but
it will HK film-maker sterotypes (noble Triad gangsters and all that).
Great fun? I sure hope so.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:05:44 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:22 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Bob Greenwade writes:
>
>> For the basic 2-point, 11- PS, the character can handle the basics of
>> the profession (paperwork, license applications, and such).
>
>That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
Think of it as a limited form of Bureaucracy. (Oh, and throw in things
like a basic knowledge of teaching sourceworks, how to fill out attendance
charts, the terminology used in the profession, etc.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:06:41 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:20 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>> PS: Mechanic would cover: ordering parts from NAPA, operating the cash
>> register,
>
>Um, no. A trained chimpanzee can run a cash register :).
You know, I *thought* that clerk at the local 7-11 looked kinda
hiruite.... ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "BILL SVITAVSKY" <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us&>
"CHAMP-L@sysabend.org" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:09:38
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Average Man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:08:47 -0400, BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
>"qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:01 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>
>>Language:English, beyond fluent. (This isn't on the chart. How do you
>>represent someone with a command of the language BEYOND that of the typical
>>native speaker?)
>
>Easy: +1 pt. A 'native' has 4 pts in a language, but you can have 5
>pts. In a tonal language like Chinese, you could add in Perfect Pitch,
>too.
>qts
>
><<<
>
>It would be interesting to use the +1 point to suggest a
>large vocabulary, skilled diction, and so on (as you seem to be
>suggesting), though I believe the BBB pretty specifically
>states that 5 points in a language gives you the skill to
>imitate dialects.
IMO this is a reflection of the deeper knowledge: people in different
areas speak in different ways, and to properly imitate this you have to
know the rules behind it.
>Other possibilities for language ability include Oratory, KS:
>English Vocabulary, KS: English Grammar, and PS: Writer. I'd
>probably assume that most characters with Linguist or any
>KS's or PS's related to reading or writing have superior
>language ability as well.
Yes, though someone with all of those would probably be a Professor of
English or equivalent.
>Now that I think about it, excellent diction could be a good
>justification (or at least part of the justification) for a
>high PRE. A high INT might include ability with language in some
>cases, but certainly not all.
Yes - Only for Repartee.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:14:30
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:57:47 -0500 (CDT), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> Football is probably best handled with specialized combat skills,
>actually. PS: Football player would work for many things. Not for
>throwing, and probably not for catching, however. Same for tackling and
>eluding the tackle. Heck, even blocking. Those are all combat skills.
Didn't they do a 'football' martial art?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:16:33 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:03 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
>
>As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
>Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
>any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
>to use my own material.
>
>I do like to read through the published material now and then.
>I'm sure those of you who regularly use it know and appreciate
>the characters better than I do. I'm curious to hear what
>characters people really like. In the comics newsgroups, people
>can rattle on endlessly about the concepts and doings of their
>favorite heroes & villains; who catches Champions fans fancy?
>
>To me, a lot of the most prominent characters don't seem all that
>inspired. Dr. Destroyer is a thinly disguised Dr. Doom, Mechanon
>is Ultron, and even Foxbat (whom I like) is only a few steps
>removed from Ambush Bug (maybe not an imitation, but a conscious
>effort to create one of that type.) What Champs characters stand
>out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
Actually, BTW, I'm almost completely sure that Foxbat predates Ambush
Bug by at least a couple of years.
I've found that I can get surprisingly good mileage out of COIL. Most
of the story hooks there aren't obvious, and the extra ones I've found may
even have been unintentional, but if you look closely enough through the
various character descriptions you can find a lot of "things that make you
go hmmmmmmmm..."
Another one I can get a lot of ideas out of is Proteus, from the "Murder
in Stronghold" scenario in Champions Presents #2. (Oh, and if anyone knows
how to get ahold of Timothy Keating, please give him both my email address
and Dave Mattingly's; we each have something different that we wish to cull
from this work of his.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mason2.gmu.edu from wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu server @mason2.gmu.edu ip 129.174.1.11
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:22:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
X-Sender: wbushway@mason2.gmu.edu
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Sakura wrote:
> > > Well, I'm working on my current project (Final Fantasy HERO) and I've come
> > > up against an interesting problem...
> >
> > Does this mean it's an actual published senario you are working on? If so
> > then my version of hand waving will not work:
>
> Eh? No, only for me and my tabletop group. I might put the results up on
> the web if enough people are interested, but I don't have the time or the
> energy to try and get licensing from Square and Hero, let alone write
> it up as an 'official' book...
Please, put it up on the Web. Telling my friend that he could
accurately model his favorite FF characters was one of the ways I
convinced him to switch from D&D.
> > Use a multipower for all of the combinations. Each slot is an ultra.
I've used this setup successfully for a character with powers
based off a Tarot deck.
> > Put the following limitations on the MP: -1/2 Only one power may be
> > used at a time, -1 slot switched based on hand.
Hmmm... I agree that each slot should be an ultra. But,
considering that the size of the point reserve will most likely be based
on the biggest power (Royal Flush), putting a -1 limit on said power would
be a bit of a faux pas. ;)
> Actually, in keeping with the Final Fantasy games, 'High Card' is going to
> be a sort of booby-prize minor healing effect.
Mugu, mugu.
> What bothers me is having the player spend so many points for a
> power he might never get to use. I think the minimum I'll go with on the
> high-level powers is Activate 8- (-2) and NCC (-2) - that would make it
> seem to be rare enough...
Well, time for somebody with a scientific calculator to supply us
with some probabilities. I tend to belive that the chance of drawing a
royal flush is a little less than 8-. If you're really scrimping for
points, you could continue the chart in the BBB down to -3, and so on.
Of course, if you want to follow the FF mold, each slot would have
the Advantage:0 END cost.
> Actually, I'm saying he has to use the best hand possible, just to keep
> things simple. The Gambler has little control over his magic...
This is why everyone should own one of those miniature working
slot-machine games, like the ones on keychains they sell at Vegas.
> > P.S. Don't call him Gambler, Call him Stud, that's the game he's playing.
>
> Actually, it's 5-card draw. 'Gambler' is the name of the (for lack of a
> better term) 'character class' - the player will of course choose the
> name.
Which FF games are you looking at? I'm assuming U.S. 2 and 3.
1 U.S. would be too D&D-ish, and 7 too complex (How would you model a
limit break? An END reserve, equal to the END cost of the Limit attack,
that fills up when you take STUN?)
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo clark.pioneer.net from chud@pioneer.net server @clark.pioneer.net ip 205.162.228.2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:00:53 -0700
From: Clinton Chard <chud@pioneer.net>
To: Larry <cpartridge@proaxis.com>
CC: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Suggested incremental damage idea
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Camille Partridge wrote:
> This is an idea for an "incremental" damge house rule for the Hero system.
> This is partially in response to the recent discussion about critical
> hit options. I would suggest using this house rule instead of a critical
> hit option in a heroic level game that uses hit locations. I could also
> be used without hit locations in a super level game.
>
> The basic concept is that a "better" to-hit roll should increase the
> damage that is done.
>
> If you roll 2/3 or better of your to-hit roll, all 1's rolled on damage dice
> would become 2's. Similarly, if you rolled 1/2 or better of your to-hit
> roll, all 1's and 2's on damage dice would become 3's. This pattern
> continues for 1/3, 1/4, and 1/5 of your to-hit roll. Here is a table
> with the numbers calculated out for those who think better that way:
>
> (n) (2/3 n) (1/2 n) (1/3 n) (1/4 n) (1/5 n)
> to-hit 1->2 1,2->3 1,2,3->4 1,2,3,4->5 1,2,3,4,5->6
> ------ ------- ------- -------- ---------- ------------
> 3 - - - - -
> 4 3 - - - -
> 5 3 3 - - -
> 6 4 3 - - -
> 7 5 4 - - -
> 8 5 4 3 - -
> 9 6 5 3 - -
> 10 7 5 3 3 -
> 11 7 6 4 3 -
> 12 8 6 4 3 -
> 13 9 7 4 3 3
> 14 9 7 5 4 3
> 15 10 8 5 4 3
> 16 11 8 5 4 3
> 17 11 9 6 4 3
> 18 12 9 6 5 4
> 19 13 10 6 5 4
> 20 13 10 7 5 4
> 21 14 11 7 5 4
> 22 15 11 7 6 4
> 23 15 12 8 6 5
> 24 16 12 8 6 5
> 25 17 13 8 6 5
>
> For example, assume that your to-hit roll is 12-:
>
> If you roll 13 or above, you miss (just like always).
>
> If you roll 9 to 12, you do the same damage as always.
>
> If you roll 7 or 8, all 1's on your damage dice get changed to 2's.
>
> If you roll 5 or 6, all 1's or 2's get changed to 3's.
>
> If you roll 4, all 1's, 2's, and 3's get changed to 4's.
>
> If you roll 3, all 1's, 2's, 3's, and 4's get changed to 5's.
>
> What do you (plural) think?
>
Well, by changing the 1's to 2's and so forth, this significantly changes the
amount of body done in the attack. This would certainly be the affect of a
'critical hit' that is reflective of how well the hit was made. Not bad.
> Larry Woestman (sharing an account with my wife)
> Camille Partridge
> Gaelforce Scottish Terriers
> cpartridge@proaxis.com
> http://www.proaxis.com/~cpartridge
--
"Contrariwise," Continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were
so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -Lewis Carroll
Clinton Chard
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo clark.pioneer.net from chud@pioneer.net server @clark.pioneer.net ip 205.162.228.2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:26:50 -0700
From: Clinton Chard <chud@pioneer.net>
To: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
CC: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
> As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
> Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
> any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
> to use my own material.
>
> I do like to read through the published material now and then.
> I'm sure those of you who regularly use it know and appreciate
> the characters better than I do. I'm curious to hear what
> characters people really like. In the comics newsgroups, people
> can rattle on endlessly about the concepts and doings of their
> favorite heroes & villains; who catches Champions fans fancy?
>
> To me, a lot of the most prominent characters don't seem all that
> inspired. Dr. Destroyer is a thinly disguised Dr. Doom, Mechanon
> is Ultron, and even Foxbat (whom I like) is only a few steps
> removed from Ambush Bug (maybe not an imitation, but a conscious
> effort to create one of that type.) What Champs characters stand
> out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
>
> While I really don't know these characters all that well, I do
> think Black Paladin and the Slug are pretty good concepts; they'd
> make passable villains in published comics. I also liked the
> woman nobody noticed in the Horror Enemies (I think) book.
I really liked The Exterminators in Alien Enemies. They were jokers
with some powerful, but unreliable weapons that would give most supers a
pause. I liked the humor of them chasing an alien PC, so I created one
for Bob Greenwade's. It should be fun!
--
"Contrariwise," Continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if
it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."
-Lewis Carroll
Clinton Chard
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:38:28 -0500
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> No, no, not at all. Sorry. What I should have said that PS: Whatever
confers
>the knowledge of how to GET the licensing moreso than the actual license
>itself. There are steps to obtaining and maintaining a license for any
>profession, obviously enough. I think a PS should allow a character to have
>this information.
Okay, I'll buy that.
>
><< He doesn't sound like a mechanic at all. >>
>
> But nevertheless, by definition, he is still a "mechanic."
A person with a 14- in a PS which, as you described it, has more to do with
running a business -- any business -- than repairing cars, and who happens
to have an 8- FAM with Mechanics isn't by definition a mechanic. He's a
businessman who has a nodding acquanintance with the job his enployees are
doing, and *they* are mechanics.
> Being able to do a job and really knowing what your doing in that field are
>not necessarily the same thing, as others have pointed out. The example of
>teachers who cannot "teach," lawyers who passed the bar but couldn't litigate
>to save their lives, etc., are all examples of this line of thought.
And I have no problem with the idea that you may want to buy a KNOWledge
Skill to go with your PS in some cases, to better KNOW what you're doing in
that field. Buying PS: Lawyer and KS: Law should cover it, though. It
shouldn't be necessary to buy a new Skill -- Litigation(PRE) to in order to
"complete" the ability. Where would this stop, and how would you decide
where to draw the line? If you want a litigator, buy PS: Trial Lawyer
instead of PS: Contracts Lawyer. Breaking a broad profession down into
specialties using PS has precedents in the published description: Brain
Surgeon, within the broader field of Doctor, and Game Editor, within the
broader field of Editor.
><< What you are describing doesn't sound like PS: Mechanic to me, it sounds
>like Business Sense, presumably a Background Skill, which measures how good
>a businessman you are regardless of your chosen field. >>
>
> Not so. The "unscrupulous mechanic" in my example has to have *some*
>knowledge of being a mechanic to run the business effectively, thus the
>Familiarity with Mechanic. Someone with a Masters in Business Administration
>but nbo background whatsopever in law is going to have a tough time running a
>paralegal service all by himself. ;)
As might a lawyer without the MBA. But a business major with a FAM in Law
isn't a lawyer, any more than a business major with a FAM in Mechanics is
an auto mechanic.
Think about this: you go to a doctor and there on the wall is his diploma
from Harvard. But wait! You look closer and find it's an MBA from Harvard
Business School. "It's okay," he assures you, "I took pre-med as well."
This man is not a doctor; in a realistically handled campaign, there'd
probably be no way for him to obtain a license to practice as one. Someone
with only a FAM in Law probably cannot pass the bar, and *may* not have
graduated law school.
> So what is the difference, philosophically, between buying (what I deem to
>be) the prerequisite skill and (what you state) a KS: The Industry? :) Not
>much, if any at all, IMO.
The difference is in what we think the prerequisite skill covers, and in
whether or not, as a result of that coverage (or lack thereof) you have to
go out and make up new Skills to cover the most central job-related tasks.
Dave buys PS: Firefighter. In order to be effective on the job, does he
need to create a Firefighting Skill to go with it? Ed buys PS:
Photographer, but not the [non-existent] Photography Skill. Oops! Does
this mean Dave, with no knowledge of business practices, can start and run
a photography studio, but that he *doesn't* know how to take
professional-quality pictures?
><< Not every P.I. will be as good as every other, whis is why you can buy the
>PS at 11-, 12-, 13- or whatever suits your level of ability. >>
>
> And any PI who doesn't have Detective Work or Deduction or any other
>"investigative"-type skills won't be very effective at all. I would assert
>that such a character is a PI by name only (the PS) and not by definition. ;)
Like I said, some people will be better at it than others and complementary
Skills are always a good idea. I think if the rules *required* additional
Skills, they wouldn't simply be made available. Somewhere there'd be a
note to the effect that: "the PS does not confer on a character the
ability to perform any but the simplest job related tasks. In order to
carry out the important, central job functions, the player must create a
new Skill to describe those abilities. When a Skill Roll is required, the
GM will decide whether to roll against the new Skill (central job duties)
or the PS (any business-related or otherwise minor aspect of the job." Any
I just don't see a note like that anywhere, or even anything (except posts
from you and a handful of others here) even suggesting it.
>Right. So someone with PS: Trial Lawyer could argue in court, but without KS:
>Law he may have no clue what the heck he is arguing about or truly understand
>how the law works!
I agree. But you've just described the purchase of a related KS, not the
creation of a new Litigation Skill. You handled that by buying PS: Trial
Lawyer instead of PS: Lawyer. I have no problem at all with this one, it's
exactly what I'm suggesting should be done.
> That';s right. The publisher is ignoring the rules printed in the product.
>::sigh:: No, I am not blatantly ignoring them. I am interpreting them. I
think
>a PS would certainly be sufficient for some jobs that are essentially less
>technical (PS: Waitress? PS: Video Rental Clerk?). But when it comes to some
>jobs, other skills are an absolute necessity. One could be a plumber with PS:
>Plumber, but how many plumbers do you know that really know how to do pipe
>work and have absolutely no knowledge of water pressure and such?
I haven't taken a poll of the plumbers I've hired. If they can fix my
broken pipe, that's all I care about. Again, I don't see anything in the
rules that suggests that Professional Skills fall into two categories,
those that cover all the job requirements and those that don't. I
certainly don't see any basis for objectively determining what jobs fall
into each category. Bob's suggestion to divide them along the lines of
Background vs. Char-based Skills might help address this, but I just read
that in the last 5 minutes and haven't had time to think that one through yet.
> I am not going to point out specific rules passages to you to try to
>convince you. I believe much of it is common sense and desired style of play
>(read: opinion). Besides, you posted one of the same quotes I did.
I don't understand your reluctance to support your position with published
rules. *Much* of it is common sense, but unless you take the view that one
of us is completely devoid of common sense, this specific point apparently
falls outside the range of "much". I think I'm making a reasonable
argument here, and explaining both by example and by rules citation why I
think so. I know that you are capable of well reasoned commentary
yourself, but I'm finding a lot of what you're saying here to be somewhat
circular -- as opposed to my own comments, which are merely repetitive ;)
-- in that it seems to boil down to "I say this is how PS works because I
say that's how the rules work". I still don't know what leads you to this
particular interpretation.
Your view is one possible interpretation, not the only one. The fact that
I have offered specific supporting evidence for my view does NOT mean that
mine is the better argument, but IMO it does mean my argument is presently
the only supported one at the table, making it harder for me to compare the
virtues of my position with the virtues of yours.
> If you are only going to acknowledge the published rules as canon and
not be
>open to a differing point of view, then what's the point? I thought we were
>discussing an interpretation of the rules; a way to present a "realistically
>detailed" option to the low-point NPCs that many Hero fans are used to.
The published rules *are* canon by definition. That doesn't make them
inviolate. It does make them the starting point for the game. Individual
GMs, as always, can do what they like in their own campaigns. Hero does
not frown on these sorts of rules deviations. Part of what I'm trying to
do here is to establish whether your system, or mine, or both constitutes
such a rules deviation/modification. It's less a matter of which of us is
"right" or "wrong" than which of us (if either) is correctly interpreting
the original system. It wouldn't matter if each of us only played in our
own little corners, but it's conceivable I may someday offer something for
publication, and you will be doing so routinely; published materials should
observe standard Hero conventions as far as possible, and flag rules
additions or modifications where they appear.
> If we *were* to publish such a rule, would that convince you to consider
the
>possibility that PS is not the catch-all skill that some people consider
it to
>be? Do you see how silly this all is? <LOL>
I'm already *considering* the possibility, though not as seriously as I
would be if people would give a rules-supported argument instead of just
saying "No, it isn't."
Cerainly I'd welcome clarification of this one way or the other in 5th
Edition rules. I don't know how much weight I'd give it if I found such a
pronouncement in a licensed product of any sort from Atlas, R. Talsorian or
Gold Rush. That's because I don't know to what extent licensed products
are "Watched" (read: edited in any way) by Hero Games.
How "official" are they, really?
><< What's at issue [is] whether or not a standard PS, as written, covers the
>basic job-related tasks of its profession. >>
>
> Certainly it does. I never suggested otherwise. In fact, early on I
listed a
>number of duties a cop could perform with just PS: Police Officer. Why are
you
>making this some type of internal struggle when it's not? It's simply a
matter
>of misunderstanding what is being said, I think.
If this is now a struggle, it's become one in part because not one person
has yet responded to my request for *any kind* of specific rules citation
in support of the view I've been arguing against.
> As a publisher of Hero System products I hereby declare it is now an
Otional
>Rule. <LOL> Satisfied?
I'm going to assume you entertained no notion that I would be. Look, I
behaved Very Badly a couple of days ago (and unfortunately, not for the
first time) and I've been trying to keep myself under control since then.
Flatly refusing to respond to my requests, calling the whole question silly
and laughing at me as you wave the Big Stick of the Licensed Publisher is
really not calculated to help my mood. I respect your right to a differing
viewpoint. I accept that yours *may be* the [more nearly] correct
viewpoint, and have asked for evidence of this -- some indication that your
system is in fact what the original writers had in mind all along -- and
you haven't offered me any.
The one argument *anyone* has made, pointing out that the existence of
Computer Programming, Electronics and Mechanics as separate Skills could be
used to support the contention that PS: Mechanic doesn't make one a
mechanic (it still sounds bizarre) I have replied to. I offered a
different explanation for why those particular Skills, among all the
possible Professional Skills, might have been listed separately. No one
has so much as acknowledged that explanation yet, much less discussed it.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo kuhub.cc.ukans.edu from kevinc@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu server SYSTEM @kuhub.cc.ukans.edu ip 129.237.32.2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:44:47 -0600
From: kevinc@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kevin Criscione)
Subject: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: Lindsley@kuphsx.phsx.ukans.edu
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>From Champions Mailing list:
>> >> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>> >> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
>> >> bunch of
>> >> >anime movies.
>> >> >
>> >If I could ever get myself motified to write, I'd love to do an asia
>> >sourcebook. The gaming industry has been one miserably inacurrate book
>>to the
>> >next in this area.
>> >
>> Hey, do it! I suspect there really is good demand for "Champions Of The
>> East" or the like, and if you can manage to mesh *accurate* cultural flavor
>> with the paradigms of RPGs, it will be quite a feat.
>>
> Well, first I'd have to get over being motified (whatever that is),
>and get down to being 'motivated'. :)
>
>> I suspect a lot of the problem is that people writing gaming books look to
>> other gaming books as sources. How did GURPS China and GURPS Japan come out?
>>
> They were decent, and ocaisionally even accurate.
>
>The problem is twofold.
>
>1. Most westerners have very little clue on asia. That's the nature of our
> society. By converse, most asian societies today study the west in
> great detail.
>
>2. Asia is a living breathing place. It's not today what it was 500 years ago,
> let alone even 5 years ago. Most of the stuff I see on asia uses out
> of date stereotypes that were hardly accurate to begin with.
>
> I'd like to see a book on asia written by people who have lived there.
>It's quite a rich place for both fantasy and super roleplay.
Well, the character write-ups (game mechanics only and with a number of
familiar anime references) for the proposed "Champions of Nippon" are
finished and my co-author, who is doing the social aspects of the book has
had a long time interest in Japanese culture and is currently living and
working in Japan for two years. Does that qualify?
Kevin Criscione Champions is a simulation of comic book reality.
kevinc@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Congruency with any other reality is purely
coincidental.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:45:26 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 05:44 PM 4/15/1998 -0600, Kevin Criscione wrote:
>> I'd like to see a book on asia written by people who have lived
there.
>>It's quite a rich place for both fantasy and super roleplay.
>
> Well, the character write-ups (game mechanics only and with a number of
>familiar anime references) for the proposed "Champions of Nippon" are
>finished and my co-author, who is doing the social aspects of the book has
>had a long time interest in Japanese culture and is currently living and
>working in Japan for two years. Does that qualify?
I should hope it does.
Count me as a customer for this book!
(PS: Please include Zen Team and other Japanese characters established
in the Champions Universe. They may be cheesy, but continuity is important
to us CU fans.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:46:17 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:06 PM 4/15/1998 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 05:20 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>> PS: Mechanic would cover: ordering parts from NAPA, operating the cash
>>> register,
>>
>>Um, no. A trained chimpanzee can run a cash register :).
>
> You know, I *thought* that clerk at the local 7-11 looked kinda
>hiruite.... ;-]
Typo time again. Make that "hirsuite."
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:06:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
> What Champs characters stand
> out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
Let's see... off of the top of my head, here are some of my favorite
Hero System characters:
The Blood (Blood and Dr. McQuark) - all of them, but especially "The
Affrighter". Okor showed up in at least 4 local games at last count.
Madame Moonlight (Golden Age of Champions) - best costume *ever* and a
pretty cool concept.
St. Peter's Star (Classic Organizations) - Mainly due to the art, but I
really liked certain aspects of the character's personality.
Felix-9 and Long Walker (Allies) - Walker's personality was just too cool,
and Felix demanded to be droped into my Kazei 5 cyberpunk game.
Normals Unbound - Just about *all* of them.
Morgan Blake (Horror Hero) - I liked him due to his pic (pretty cool) and
his personality.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:16:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
>
> Think of it as a limited form of Bureaucracy. (Oh, and throw in things
> like a basic knowledge of teaching sourceworks, how to fill out attendance
> charts, the terminology used in the profession, etc.)
Also, how to fill out a lesson plan, the latest homework and paper
fads, etc. A whole bunch of skills that are essential to a teache.
Teaching is not on that list.
Also, I like the idea of not requiring a second skill unless the
skill is "important" enough outside of the profession. Teaching, I think,
would be here. This skill would go to elementary and high school
teachers, college professors, military drill instructiors, industry
"teaching consultants", etc. Very valuable. The other PRE-based skills
don't quite cover it, so call it a new PRE-based skill.
I think Writing would be another one "important" enough to have
its own skill; however, I'd give it as a free 8- Everyman.
In this way, PS: Dentistry would be fine, though all dentists
would have a KS and SS or two on account of years of schooling. PS:
Plumber would be fine, though a KS would be common. PS: Doctor is needed
for all doctors, but specialized ones should add additional PSs (such as
neurosugeon, etc) which are needed to keep for having huge penalties for
certain procedures.
So, can anyone think of any other skills, besides Teaching and
Writing, that should have their own skill entry besides the PS?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access1.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access1.digex.net ip 205.197.245.192
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:26:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >Yeah, but some of them 'super' martial artists are way of the scale (there
> >are two 800+ point characters in the book)
>
> But wouldn't you expect that from the "World's Greatest" super-martial
> artist? I still wonder if Lin Hu's 80 point VPP is enough to simulate all
> the martial arts powers of legend! I don't mind the odd 800+ point villian
> (or hero); it's when the point levels are consistantly 400+ that it bugs me.
> WotD had martial artists from pretty much all ends of the 'super' martial
> artist scale, which was fine by me.
I think my argument comes from a 'gut-reaction' of "800 points! For
what?" Li Chun the Destroyer (Hey... "LI CHUN"? Steve, were you playing
Streetifhter II while writing this? ^_^). Any way Li Chun is supposed to
be a team-trasher, 832 points is okay. Lin Hu is supposed to be the
world's best, but does he need 855 points to do it?
To be honest, a closer look does show that some of those points are spent
on pretty useless KS skills (do you really need to spend 66 points for a
KS of every known martial art, or could you just by KS: Martial Arts 23-
and be done with it?) He also drops 34 points to know how to use every
weapon known to man... but that's sorta unavoidable.
Finally, so of his stats are (IMHO) a bit inflated. 35 DEX, 8 PSD and -9
DEX Lightning Reflexes? Way to much. I'd go 30 DEX, 7 SPD and skill
levels. (Yeah, even on top of his 8 HTH and 2 Overall). I think too many
people pump DEX for its CV valuse alone, as oppsoed to using CSLs to
represent fighting skill and experience .
80 points for martial arts powers sounds okay. Exactly what super
abilities do you want to simulate that you can't fit into 80 Active
Points? HKAs, AF Punches, AoE Punches, Chi blasts... what else?
Looking at my own Kazei Five manuscript, I find that there is one 836
point character, one 700 point character ... and then a big drop to 398,
380 and 353. And this doesn't count the cyberdroids, which are uh... 368,
479, 533 and 624 points...
Hmm... maybe I should just shut up now?
The characters taken from actual PCs are 237, 263, 267, 279, 286,
311 and 313... okay, so maybe it isn't that bad...
> >> Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
> >
> >Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
>
> Yeah. So?
Just that it would be a sourcebook all to itself.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com&>
"Champions Mailing List A" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus printed versions
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:42:24 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> When I printed my copy, it came out just fine, and the margins were
> perfect. You might want to check the margin settings on your printer
> itself. Just a thought...
There is nothing to check on the printer ... and for that matter, it printed
out pretty much like Acrobat displayed it. Your definition of perfect could
simply be different than mine. Like I said before, if you simply want to
three hole punch it and put it in a three ring binder, the inside margin is
large enough.
For reference, when I print I have an inside margin of slightly less than
3/4" and an outside margin (paper edge to the line) of 2 5/8". Granted, you
need room for the fancy graphic around the page number (or do you), but it
could be made smaller, such that the image could be shifted to the outside
(1/4" inch would be great).
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:48:21 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
There is a software package, called Poser 2, by Fractal Design that _looks_
like it could be a good way to create a bunch of Cardboard Heroes. It's
intent is to create realistic looking 3-D people, from babies to
super-heroic physique. It looks like you can add clothing (costume) and
additional stuff (extra arms?) to personalize each one. Once you create
one, you can rotate and look (print) it at any angle, so it would be easy to
get a front and rear view of the same pose.
I would love knowing how to use this software, but I simply don't have the
time. Has anyone tried it?
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: "Dataweaver" <traveler@io.com&>
"JASON SULLIVAN" <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: 0 END DI
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:23:57 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>
> > Anyone here know the offial answer to this problem?
> > If DI is bought 0 END, do you need to pay the END cost of the
> STR it grants?
>
> Yes.
I agree. 0 END means that you pay no END for DI, which gives you extra
strength. Actually using that Strength, however, costs END.
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> What Champs characters stand
>> out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
Well, from Champions of the North:
Borealis: I love this guy. Sure, he's a supervillian, but he's a big
patriotic Canadian supervillian. He's so anti-stereotypically Canadian I
could hug the big guy. I can just see him going around kicking ass in the
name of the True North, Strong and Free. :-)
Ambrosia: Simply for the very cool nature of her powers. Chemical telepathy...
>From Allies:
The Zen Team. All of them. They're so lovably, cheezily sentai. All they
need are combining weapons and giant robots...
Le Chevalier D'Honneur: More cheeze, but I like swashbuckler cheeze too.
>From VIPER:
Viperia. Yeah, she's a superman ripoff. But she's a unabashedly blatant
Superman ripoff, you gotta admire the gall of Scott Bennie and Cliff
Christiansen.
>From Classic Organizations:
Peace Keeper: Mechanon, reprogrammed to be all nicey-nice. I love it.
Erg: Very nifty character concept.
Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a guy
who chases whomever is currently 'it'.
I also like most of the characters from the Zodiac Conspiracy. Using the
'original' Minotaur was a nice touch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:40:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> >Yeah, but some of them 'super' martial artists are way of the scale (there
>> >are two 800+ point characters in the book)
>>
>> But wouldn't you expect that from the "World's Greatest" super-martial
>> artist?
>I think my argument comes from a 'gut-reaction' of "800 points! For
>what?" Li Chun the Destroyer (Hey... "LI CHUN"? Steve, were you playing
>Streetifhter II while writing this? ^_^).
Heh. Just out of curiosity, what does Li Chun mean in Chinese? This could be
actually significant...
> Any way Li Chun is supposed to
>be a team-trasher, 832 points is okay. Lin Hu is supposed to be the
>world's best, but does he need 855 points to do it?
>
>To be honest, a closer look does show that some of those points are spent
>on pretty useless KS skills (do you really need to spend 66 points for a
>KS of every known martial art, or could you just by KS: Martial Arts 23-
>and be done with it?)
THAT is very true. I wondered on that one myself. And I would have given Lin
Hu some martial arts - just so he could do the 'normal' Martial Throw which
is annoying to simulate with dumb stuff like 'Double Knockback'. Martial
Throw, Martial Strike, and most of the exert maneuvers. Let him use his VPP
for extra STR only to do damage, 0 END, but he does Knockback like a regular
martial artist (he just uses martial strike all the time).
He also drops 34 points to know how to use every
>weapon known to man... but that's sorta unavoidable.
Yup. Though he has a 60 point weapon VPP; he's paid points for just about
every martial arts weapon known to man, so he doesn't need the FAM to use
them, does he? But I suppose he's going to be teaching others...the FAMs
make sense.
>Finally, so of his stats are (IMHO) a bit inflated. 35 DEX, 8 PSD and -9
>DEX Lightning Reflexes? Way to much. I'd go 30 DEX, 7 SPD and skill
>levels. (Yeah, even on top of his 8 HTH and 2 Overall). I think too many
>people pump DEX for its CV valuse alone, as oppsoed to using CSLs to
>represent fighting skill and experience .
I'd feel no remorse giving Lin Hu a 12 SPD. Watching him fight would
probably be a lot like a movie martial arts fight where everything an
opponant does has him running into an arm, leg, elbow, knee, forehead, etc.
IOW, any fight Lin Hu gets into looks like the fight was coreographed for
Lin Hu to win in the minimum possible time while the bad guys fall all over
themselves to 'let' Lin Hu beat them up :-).
As for the DEX, I'm afraid that's an artifact of the way 'standard'
superhero martial artists are built (27 DEX for Seeker, etc.).
>80 points for martial arts powers sounds okay. Exactly what super
>abilities do you want to simulate that you can't fit into 80 Active
>Points? HKAs, AF Punches, AoE Punches, Chi blasts... what else?
I'd expect Lin Hu to be able to do some _vile_ Dim Mak abilities, but TUMA
slaps on Invisible (+3/4) and Massive Time Delays for the return rate of the
Drains. I think Lin Hu should have a 'real' point limitation to his powers,
but effectively no _active_ point limitation. Lin Hu couldn't even do Qi
Feng's Dim Mak on 80 points.
>Looking at my own Kazei Five manuscript, I find that there is one 836
>point character, one 700 point character
That'd be Ran and Shion, truly vile psychokinetics, right? Just how big was
Ran's VPP again? :-)
>> >> Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
>> >
>> >Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
>>
>> Yeah. So?
>
>Just that it would be a sourcebook all to itself.
Yeah. So? :-) While we're at it, we need the Pacific Lords as well...^_^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.eznet.net from msprague@eznet.net server @mail1.eznet.net ip 207.50.128.20
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: More supplement reviews (V&V Stuff)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:12:02 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Since we are on the subject, I thought I would toss out something along the
same lines. Does anyone have a list of all the V&V superhero stuff?
Here is what I know of:
2000 Villains and Vigilantes (Revised Edition)
2002 Crisis at Crusaders Citadel
2003 Death Duel with the Destroyers
2004 The Island of Doctor Apocalypse
2005 Force
2006 Assassin
2007 Opponents Unlimited
2008 Most Wanted: Volume 1
2010 The Dawn of DNA
2011 From the Deeps of Space
2012 Battle Above the Earth
2014 Devil's Domain
2016 Terror by Night
2017 Most Wanted: Volume 3
2018 Pre-Emptive Strike
2020 Honor (Enter the Dragon's Claw)
2021 Search for the Sensei
2051 DNAgents Sourcebook
A lot of missing number there.
If anyone is interested in a summary of any of these, I can write a quick
one, as the above are all owned by myself or friends. Some are really good,
some are poor, and some depend on your campaign.
~ Mike
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-9,15-17,19
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:29:06 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a distinctly liberal
>bent to
>them (IMHO). Does anyone run their games more middle of the road or
>conservative?>>
>
> Now this is an interesting observation. Do you have any examples?
Or better yet, definitions? "Liberal" and "Conservative" mean different
things to different people.
IMHO, the superhero genre does tend to be pro-individualism. The lone
hero (or small group of heroes) that challenges evil directly despite
evil's numerical advantage is shown as worthy of respect. I don't recall
any comics where success routinely comes from following along with the
group. (I never got into the super-agent comics, though -- or the
cartoon tie-ins.) Is this what the original poster meant?
Leah
(hoping this turned out semi-coherent after the overtime she's put in
this past week)
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.igateway.net from tstatler@igateway.net server @mail.igateway.net ip 206.142.60.2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:33:40 -0500
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
Reply-To: tstatler@igateway.net
To: hero-l@sysabend.org, Jason Sullivan <ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Strawberry Ripple
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Here's my take on the groovy babe Strawberry Ripple.
>
> She's a far out, man... She was once a square geek-child, but
> after an accident with some chemical substances, she gained the ability to
> change into S.R. Now she fights 'the man' sand speaks out for the rights
> of hip and happening young people everywhere. An activist, the fuzz don't
> appreciate her much... but she tunes them in with her 'strawberry love
> wave', (AoE Radius Mental Illusions, based on CON, illusions based on
> target's subconcious perceptions of the world).
>
> Other powers I would suggest are Aura Perception, Change
> Environment (just for funked out lighting and lava lamp effects), Mind
> Control (as above, to instill feelings of serenity, peace, and love for
> your fellow man), and even gliding or flight (with bad blue screen special
> effects in the background).
>
Okay, You've asked for it. Write her up and submit her to the list
Tim Statler
(just now catching up from over two weeks on not reading mail during
the holidays.)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from dpawtows@access.digex.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:46:01 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Averageman is immune to the mighty blasts of Dr. Destroyer, but has to
> >be very careful when crossing the street.......
>
> Outch. :-]
Did I mention DF: Has *precisely* 2.3 kids? :-)
Daniel "Birthdays every third year" Pawtowski
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:57:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >From Classic Organizations:
You forgot Yu Genothrax. Nice Cuthuloid writeup.
> Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a guy
> who chases whomever is currently 'it'.
Oh, yeah. CLOWN. I use them a lot in my game for some comic
relief. My group really doesn't like Snapshot, Merry Andrew or, of
course, Tag.
> I also like most of the characters from the Zodiac Conspiracy. Using the
> 'original' Minotaur was a nice touch.
Yes. About the best villian "team" in the Champions Universe.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:59:57 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< A person with a 14- in a PS which, as you described it, has more to do with
running a business -- any business -- than repairing cars, and who happens
to have an 8- FAM with Mechanics isn't by definition a mechanic. >>
This thread is starting to read like the "Argument Clinic" sketch from Monty
Python. ::sigh::
"Look, I don't want to argue about that!"
"Ah, but you came here to argue."
IMO, the guy in my example abovbe is every bit as much a mechanic by as is
the guy who has PS: Mechanic and nothing else. So there. :P
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: DC Heroes and D6
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:00:16 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I know this is not a Champions thing, but I
thought fans of DC or D6 might want to know the following. This is a reply to a
letter I got back from Eric Trautmann of West End Games. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT
size=2>______________________________________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2><<I am a fan of D6 and wish to
know also about your plans for DC Heroes RPG<BR>which you have acquired the
rights to produce. Will it be a D6 system? >><BR><BR>It is a variant
version of the D6 Rules called "D6 Prime"--it is similar to<BR>what we
used in our Hercules & Xena game (which ships in the next few weeks).<BR>It
is easily converted to D6; the main difference is the die rolling
mechanic.<BR>Instead of counting up your dice for a total, you count 5s and 6s
as<BR>successes. The overall difference is lower difficulty numbers. By
multiplying<BR>the difficulty numbers by 3, you can run it using the standard D6
rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Eric Trautmann<BR>WEG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>_________________________________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Sorry for all the devoted Champs fans
who wish not to have their list sullied with the concerns of other game
companies and other peoples heroes. Thanks for your
time.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:01:02 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Where would this stop, and how would you decide where to draw the line? >>
Based on one's desired level of detail. :)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:04:18 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< But a business major with a FAM in Law isn't a lawyer, any more than a
business major with a FAM in Mechanics is an auto mechanic. >>
On the contrary. All that being a mechanic "requires" is PS: Mechanic and
Mechanics skill. Now are we to put minimum level requirements on them as well.
Doesn't *that* go against the philosophy of reducing the level of detail? ;)
If someone with PS: Techer 8- is a crappy teacher but STILL a teacher, then
someone with PS: Mechanic 14- and Mechanics 8- is STILL a mechanic. ;)
<< You look closer and find it's an MBA from Harvard Business School. "It's
okay," he assures you, "I took pre-med as well." This man is not a doctor; in
a realistically handled campaign, there'd probably be no way for him to obtain
a license to practice as one. Someone with only a FAM in Law probably cannot
pass the bar, and *may* not have graduated law school. >>
UNLESS the Familiarity level in indicative of a skill gained long ago but
which degraded over time. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 23:11:24 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sakura writes:
>> That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
> Actually, Bureaucracy is more 'general'.
Then a more specific "subskill" of Bureaucracy. Because "PS: Teacher" is
not a bureaucratic skill, it is a skill concerned with teaching. The guy
that teaches high school physics in Brighton, MA, has PS: Teacher. The guy
that teaches Kung Fu in a small monastary in the outlands of China has PS:
Teacher.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTV2256VRH7BJMxHAQGCTwP/dnR4oHgqCse8ZeoBo2HDNx68klREVRYi
yVgPXr2iwt0g8uYm29Ax1tTJzdNCCgWi6byGR1mwHMwA+8A47pTpuh4ZvqclmaI1
+z6u3nmdpiS7A0iueymJOqlmEccy8f3YHA1sXWKSzy6epNiSBKO+aJPVam1k1bZb
TA/PU3ONxqY=
=+thv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo27.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo27.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.71
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:13:37 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I don't understand your reluctance to support your position with published
rules. *Much* of it is common sense, but unless you take the view that one of
us is completely devoid of common sense, this specific point apparently falls
outside the range of "much". >>
If nothing I've said (keeping in mind that I am a publisher of Hero System
books) has given you pause to consider the possibility that my suggestion for
handling PSs is just as valid as the "skills lite" method, then why in the
world would quoting previously published rules matter?
<< I think I'm making a reasonable argument here, and explaining both by
example and by rules citation why I think so. >>
I think you are a rules-centric player and that is fine. If the printed word
is all you want to base your gaming decisions on then that's fine. More power
to you. But please don't preach about the rules. We write and publish rules.
<LOL>
<< ...it seems to boil down to "I say this is how PS works because I say
that's how the rules work". I still don't know what leads you to this
particular interpretation. >>
That is your own erroneous inference of the comments I've made. If you or
anyone else want to continue to skip past the "option" and "anyway you want"
and "opinions" comments I've made, then this conversation has outlasted its
usefulness. I'm not going to argue with anyone about this. It is simply one
manner of handling PSs, and the method I prefer. You can do it any way you
want. It's your game. Period. Just quit trying to tell me I'm wrong, because
niether of us is "wrong," okay?
<< Your view is one possible interpretation, not the only one. >>
Funny, I have been one of those saying that from the beginning. Why do you
try to make me out to be some kind of closed-minded person on this issue? I
never claimed mine was the only way.
<< The fact that I have offered specific supporting evidence for my view does
NOT mean that mine is the better argument, but IMO it does mean my argument is
presently the only supported one at the table, making it harder for me to
compare the
virtues of my position with the virtues of yours.>>
Again, if you want to stay mired in rules, then that is your choice. I
prefer a different style of game play and character creation. That's all.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo13.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo13.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.35
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:17:45 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Flatly refusing to respond to my requests, calling the whole question silly
and laughing at me as you wave the Big Stick of the Licensed Publisher is
really not calculated to help my mood. >>
I have no intention of affecting your mood either way with my comments. I
simply think this whole thread has gotten silly.
<< I respect your right to a differing viewpoint. I accept that yours *may
be* the [more nearly] correct viewpoint, and have asked for evidence of this
-- some indication that your system is in fact what the original writers had
in mind all along -- and you haven't offered me any. >>
To a degree, it's less important what they had in mind 10 years ago. What do
they have in mind now? Modifications and clarifications are one of the reasons
for the new 5th Edition of the rules.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to do the layouts for San Angelo. ;)
Take care, and good gaming.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:19:39 -0500
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>With regards to your 'nothing I've objected to so far has anything to do
>with combat' - why should it be any different when it involves combat?
Why shouldn't it?
If
>PS: Knight or Gladiator /doesn't/ cover fighting, then isn't that claiming
>(as you say below) that 'PS means one thing if the profession it
>represents is "important" and something else if the profession isn't
>"important".'?
No, because IF after taking the time to consider it I decided combat should
be excluded from these considerations, it wouldn't be because I think
combat is "important", it'd be because combat is already handled separately
in the game; Skill Levels and Combat Skill Levels, for example, are not
interchangeable. Combat isn't based directly on DEX, but on the
intermediate OCV/DCV rating, which is routinely modified up or down without
affecting the base DEX. Since the game already treats combat as separate
from other Skill uses, I expect I'd find it inconsistent for me to try and
incorporate it into ordinary Skill use.
>So in your system, PS: Private Investigator would subsume Interrogation,
>Deduction, Investigation, Shadowing, Bureaucracy, and all the other
>skills related to Private Detecting?
No, under my system a person is allowed to hold a job as a P.I. with
nothing more than the PS: Private Investigator and his Everyman Skills in
Concealment, Shadowing and Deduction, all at 8-. He won't be as effective
as someone who buys those things as full Skills, probably along with
others, but he *is* a legal character and he *is* entitled to the job.
Actually, though I've slipped up on this elsewhere myself, what I'm
desciribing is not "my system", but rather, an explanation of what I think
the existing system is. But that takes too long to say every time...
>If I were a backyard mechanic, and became a professional, shouldn't I get
>a price break on PS: Mechanic because I already have the skill? If not,
>I'm paying twice for the same thing.
Oh? How much credit did the vocational school give you for the time spent
in your back yard? It's not unreasonable that you'd still have to pay the
full price for the PS, because not only will you be learning how to do more
things, you will in some cases be re-learning how to do some of the things
you can already do; that is, how to do them the "right" way.
>PS: Cat Burglar would likewise, under your system, seem to encompass
>Stealth, Lockpicking, Streetwise, a bit of Merchant...
You are twisting this. I don't suggest foregoing EXISTING Skills that are
obviously useful and complementary to the profession. I resist the notion
that along with those Skills, the professional cat burglar must create and
purchase a new Skill called Burglary.
>How about PS: Fast Food Cook vs. PS: Brain Surgeon? A neurosurgeon has to
>spend years and years in training, and must have lots of specialized
>knowledge to do what he does. Shouldn't it cost more, because it
>encompasses so much more than how long to leave the fries in the oil?
Again, this isn't the issue I'm addressing. The problem I have is with the
notion that in order to do their jobs at the base level, each of the above
must purchase Cooking or Surgery, respectively in addition to the PS
listed. A complementary KS (and in the case of the surgeon, an SS)
wouldn't be amiss, but I see no need to make up new Skills for fry cooks or
brain surgeons. Since cooking is a skill that can be self-taught, or
picked up initally as a hobby, like computer programming or mechanics, I
would not think it inappropriate if someone wanted to write up Cooking as a
separate Skill. I would, however, be surprised if it happened, given the
low level of "importance" (read: game impact) such a Skill would generally
have.
>It seems to me that you are treating "Professional Skill' as some kind of
>massive package deal that encompasses literally everything that might be
>done by a particular profession, even if there are other skills for it in
>the game. I think that approach is pretty inconsistent, /and/ it means
>that you effectively cannot build certain types of characters - a teacher
>who can't teach but has tenure, for example, or even a character who is
>much better at one aspect of their profession than another.
This is absurd. (1) I am not trying to stuff a dozen useful Skills into a
single PS, I am simply saying there should be no need to CREATE NEW SKILLS
(not that there should be no need to purchase additional existing ones) in
order for someone with a PS to do his job at the base level of ability.
(2) All teachers, by definition, can teach. Some do it poorly. I confess
my imagination is not sufficient to envision a tenured (thus, experienced)
professional who is absolutely incapable of imparting ANY information to
ANY student under ANY circumstances. (3) Skill Roll, Skill Roll, Skill
Roll. This is one of the more obvious ways of measuring the capabilities
of a person with any Skill, PS included, as compared with those of another
person with the same Skill. I am completely mystified at why you think
this will no longer be possible if you stick with the existing PS and any
existing Skills you bought for the character.
>Under your system, all professional mechanics that are good at fixing cars
>are /also/ good at paperwork, operating the register, dealing with the
>state bureaucracy to get their certification, etc. Under your system, all
>professional programmers are equally good at both hacking code and doing
>all the procedural stuff that comes along with being a programmer. I can
>assure you from experience that this is not the case.
No, the mechanic has an 11- (or whatever rating he paid for) as an overall
measure of how good he is at his job, which includes paperwork, getting
certification, etc. Of course he'll be better at some job tasks than
others. Similar reasoning applies to the programmer; one will be great at
hacking but may not be able to follow procedure very well, while another
has all the approved styles and protocols memorized but wouldn't know where
to begin to hack into a "secure" server. When you get a Job Performance
Evaluation (or whatever it may be called) it is generally true that you get
numeric ratings describing your performance in key job areas. You also get
an aggregate score. The PS can be related to the aggregate score. If you
want to add the detail of bonuses and penalties to Skill Rolls when
specific job tasks are attempted, to reflect the fact that you are better
at some things than others, that's up to you. I wouldn't recommend it
myself, nor does anything in "my system" require it.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:23:59 -0500
To: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts), champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> Now this is an interesting observation. Do you have any examples?
>
>Or better yet, definitions? "Liberal" and "Conservative" mean different
>things to different people.
Right. For almost everyone, "Liberal" is just a label that means
"politically to the left of where I am", and "Conservative"...well, you
know. For the labels to have any meaning, you have to know where the, uh,
labeller stands within the political spectrum.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:43:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Then a more specific "subskill" of Bureaucracy. Because "PS: Teacher" is
> not a bureaucratic skill, it is a skill concerned with teaching. The guy
> that teaches high school physics in Brighton, MA, has PS: Teacher. The guy
> that teaches Kung Fu in a small monastary in the outlands of China has PS:
> Teacher.
You've never taught, have you? Nor have you taken Teaching
courses in college. Or been good friends with teachers.
Believe me, the requirements to be a teacher have almost nothing
to do with actually teaching. And some that are recongnized as the very
best (active in committees, head departments, get records done on time,
handles detention well, etc) would have very good PS: Teacher. And they
may have no Teaching Ability to speak of. Heck, even what is taught in
college is more the PS: Teacher end of the profession and not the Teaching
end. The latter seems more a natural skill. Some of the best teachers
I've seen don't actually Teach in a school at all.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:44:13 -0500
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:04 PM 4/15/98 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< But a business major with a FAM in Law isn't a lawyer, any more than a
>business major with a FAM in Mechanics is an auto mechanic. >>
>
> On the contrary. All that being a mechanic "requires" is PS: Mechanic and
>Mechanics skill. Now are we to put minimum level requirements on them as
well.
>Doesn't *that* go against the philosophy of reducing the level of detail? ;)
Sorry, I was thinking about FAM as applied to a KS or stand-alone Skill,
though of course it's entirely legitimate to apply it directly to a PS.
Poorly expressed on my part.
><< You look closer and find it's an MBA from Harvard Business School. "It's
>okay," he assures you, "I took pre-med as well." This man is not a doctor; in
>a realistically handled campaign, there'd probably be no way for him to
obtain
>a license to practice as one. Someone with only a FAM in Law probably cannot
>pass the bar, and *may* not have graduated law school. >>
>
> UNLESS the Familiarity level in indicative of a skill gained long ago but
>which degraded over time. ;)
You aren't the only one whose posts aren't being read carefully. Note the
inclusion of "probably" and "*may* not have" as qualifiers in my last
sentence.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 15 Apr 1998 23:46:49 -0400
Lines: 50
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael (Damon) or Peni R Griffin writes:
> No, because IF after taking the time to consider it I decided combat
> should be excluded from these considerations, it wouldn't be because I
> think combat is "important", it'd be because combat is already handled
> separately in the game;
About the size of it.
"PS: Knight" is as much about swinging a sword as "PS: Teacher" is about
reciting a text book.
To provide a bit of reference, I am a sysmonster. That means my resume and
business cards say "Unix Systems Administrator". "Computer Programming" is
a skill I have at an 8- at best; I do not write code for a living, though I
can cobble up shell scripts to automate routine tasks. A more apt general
skill would be "Systems Operations", which is a "use computers" type of
skil rather than "write code" type of skill. But the real meat of what I
know is in "PS: Sysmonster". Any schmuck with a reasonable Systems
Operation skill can navigate a file system, roll and extract tarballs, copy
or move files around, etc. What he will not know is all the useful tricks,
like 'tar cf - . | ( cd /foo; tar xpf - )' to make an exact duplicate of
the current directory, including ownerships and permissions. Sure, the
schmuck can probably mange holding down a sysmonster's position, if he has
a GUI to hold his hands all the time (look at all the "Certified Windows/NT
Administrators" out there these days :). But he is not going to be
anywhere near as good at it as I am.
"PS: Knight" gives the knight a similar advantage over some schmuck that
happens to be good with a sword. The Professional Skill says that the
knight knows how to do things that can give him an advantage over the
schmuck. What kind of things? If you are playing a knight, do some
research into knightly things so you can role-play it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTV/J56VRH7BJMxHAQHRKQP8Dt9U5gszJja/y9z21paxmmJnug/dcAfX
Fd+/D+FenHmLR4aAVEbbrVjS0FrLs2rkFStYs4dmWBh150e+/BrlU/QZtsi4UT+W
rWhIr02NfcfE0Xt8r2TJxNw60fx7NHxG/uOnF3zx8Emhinq4j1QO+mLAJ1SHCT+B
il+MeSJXfgI=
=szMS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:01:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, William K Bushway wrote:
> Please, put it up on the Web. Telling my friend that he could
> accurately model his favorite FF characters was one of the ways I
> convinced him to switch from D&D.
It'll be a while...I've got a /lot/ of work in front of me, and
playtesting of course. You'll be able to keep track of my progress by
watchign this list, I'm sure. ;)
> > > Put the following limitations on the MP: -1/2 Only one power may be
> > > used at a time, -1 slot switched based on hand.
>
> Hmmm... I agree that each slot should be an ultra. But,
> considering that the size of the point reserve will most likely be based
> on the biggest power (Royal Flush), putting a -1 limit on said power would
> be a bit of a faux pas. ;)
I don't follow you here...I was going to partially limit the
multipower...10 pts of the reserve (to pull a number out of my hat)
would be unlimited, the next 10 would have 'only if 1 pair is drawn', the
next 10 'only if 2 pair', etc. Overall limitations would be OAF: Cards,
gestures, full phase, and 'must use best hand'. I think the 'side
effects' are a -0 since they're pretty rare.
> > What bothers me is having the player spend so many points for a
> > power he might never get to use. I think the minimum I'll go with on the
> > high-level powers is Activate 8- (-2) and NCC (-2) - that would make it
> > seem to be rare enough...
>
> Well, time for somebody with a scientific calculator to supply us
> with some probabilities. I tend to belive that the chance of drawing a
> royal flush is a little less than 8-.
The chance of getting it 'pat (first hand) is somewhere in the .00005%
range. That's why I added 'No Conscious Control'. I was pondering
applying multiple activation rolls, too, to get the percentages right.
(i.e. two 11- (50%) activation rolls would really be 25%...)
> If you're really scrimping for
> points, you could continue the chart in the BBB down to -3, and so on.
There's the other option...
> Of course, if you want to follow the FF mold, each slot would have
> the Advantage:0 END cost.
Probably going to power it off of an END reserve. Cheaper that way...
> Which FF games are you looking at? I'm assuming U.S. 2 and 3.
US 3 is my main source, especially for the magic system, although I'm
taking ideas from FFVj as well - and a bit from FF7.
> 1 U.S. would be too D&D-ish,
True.
> and 7 too complex (How would you model a
> limit break? An END reserve, equal to the END cost of the Limit attack,
> that fills up when you take STUN?)
Actually, this is something I've figured out already. 8)
You have an END reserve equal to the END cost of the limit attack (you
were right so far) with 0 recovery, and the -1/4 limit 'starts at 0, lost
when unconscious'. Then you simply have a couple dice of Absorb (half for
physical, half for energy) that feed into the Reserve. It's not a
perfectly accurate portrayal, but it's close enough in game terms (the
more powerful an attack, the more it fills up your limit gauge)
Materia would be a bit more difficult, but I didn't care for the materia
system, because it left the characters too undifferentiated. I liked
Sabin having Blitzes and Edgar having Tools and all the other stuff from
FFIII much better...so that's what I'll be modelign my game after. The
plot and world, however, are my own (except for the 'classic bits' - an
airship, Chocobos, a guy named Cid...)
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo web1.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @web1.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.67
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
---Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>
> P.S. Don't call him Gambler, Call him Stud, that's the game he's playing.
>
I hate to pick nits, but stud poker does not include a draw.
===
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:09:27 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> If nothing I've said (keeping in mind that I am a publisher of Hero System
>books) has given you pause to consider the possibility that my suggestion for
>handling PSs is just as valid as the "skills lite" method, then why in the
>world would quoting previously published rules matter?
Yes, we've established repeatedly that you are a publisher of Hero System
books, no need to beat anyone over the head with it. I believe I can
safely assume that you are, overall, more familiar with the Hero rules than
I am. But am I also to assume that the publication of a couple of
adventure books empowers said publisher to be The Final Word on
interpretation of rules in earlier works he *didn't* publish? And if so,
do all publishers of licensed Hero products have equal standing in making
such determinations?
I wasn't approaching you, individually, as a publisher, to get an
"official" ruling on this. For an "official" ruling I probably would have
asked Steve Long whether any clarification was planned for 5th Edition. I
was asking you, Tim and whoever else espoused your interpretation of the
use of Professional Skills to please explain to me what existing published
rules shaped that view...because it's frequently true that when I find I'm
doing something in a non-standard way, it's because I wasn't aware, or had
forgotten, that a rule was already in place to cover that situation, and if
someone points it out to me (as was the case recently with my belief that
certifications should be included in the PS), I can adjust. As it is, I
cannot even be certain that what I'm doing is non-standard, though I
suppose it's likely, given that I seem to be a minority of one on this
question.
> I think you are a rules-centric player and that is fine. If the printed
word
>is all you want to base your gaming decisions on then that's fine. More power
>to you. But please don't preach about the rules. We write and publish rules.
><LOL>
Asking for specific instruction and information is preaching? I simply
*must* remember to keep my questions general, and not concern myself with
whether the response, if any, actually addresses the question I asked. I
have as many house rules and modifications of standard rules as anyone, but
I do think it's appropriate to be sure what the rule says before you go
changing it.
Why do I suddenly feel like John Adams? Oh, yeah..."obnoxious and disliked".
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:11:07 -0500
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Now if you'll excuse me, I have to do the layouts for San Angelo. ;)
Just couldn't let one post go by with bringing up the publisher thing
again, could you?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:16:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On 15 Apr 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Sakura writes:
>
> >> That is Bureacracy, not Teaching.
>
> > Actually, Bureaucracy is more 'general'.
>
> Then a more specific "subskill" of Bureaucracy.
Which would work how in the rules? (GURPS has a 'specialization' rule,
but Hero does't...)
> Because "PS: Teacher" is
> not a bureaucratic skill, it is a skill concerned with teaching.
Slight correction: it is a skill concerned with being a professional
teacher. There is a difference.
One could have the hypothetical 'teaching' or 'instruction' skill without
being a certified (or certifiable) teacher. Heck, I probably have it at
8-, but I wouldn't know the first thing about a lot of stuff that someone
with PS: Teacher would - all the 'procedural stuff' as it's been called
elsewhere in this thread. I wouldn't know about choosing and ordering
textbooks, how to talk to parents about unruly students, how to cause a
kid to be held back or be placed in an honors program, etc. PS: Teacher
would encompass all of those things, because they're things a professional
teacher ought to know.
> The guy
> that teaches high school physics in Brighton, MA, has PS: Teacher. The guy
> that teaches Kung Fu in a small monastary in the outlands of China has PS:
> Teacher.
Hmm. I guess I go into more detail with PSes than you do - I do /not/
think that a king fu teacher in China has the same PS as a physics teacher
in Brighton. I'd use 'PS: High School Physics Teacher' and 'PS: Sifu' or
'PS: Kung Fu Teacher'.
A sensei does not need to know how to grade papers or prepare his students
for the AP Physics test. A physics teacher does not need to know how to
challenge his student's physical limitations to make him stronger.
There is some overlap, yes, in that both would need to know the basics of
instruction - but even then, the approaches they use will probably differ
greatly.
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:27:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
cc: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Now if you'll excuse me, I have to do the layouts for San Angelo. ;)
>
> Just couldn't let one post go by with bringing up the publisher thing
> again, could you?
Cut back on the caffeine a little bit, ok? It'll help with that tension
and general irritability.;) Unless Mark (@GRG) starts saying 'This way
is the ONLY right way, because I work on the game', I don't see the
problem here.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.mailsrvcs.net from ashock@gte.net server @smtp2.gte.net ip 207.115.153.31
Reply-To: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
To: <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:53:31 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Without a doubt, Foxbat.
My second favorite is the new version of Doctor Destroyer from Champions:
New Millenium. he's far enough removed from the Doctor Doom clone origins as
to be a very interesting character. And thanks to the website, he is
available for Hero.
Allen Shock
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo magic.cyberone.com.au from rholding@actonline.com.au server root@c1-www.ispsys.net ip 210.8.19.250
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:56:41 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "RH" == Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> writes:
>
> RH> You still must declare the block before the attack roll is made but
> RH> after the attack decleratiaon, that is true. But many people also play
> RH> that you must block what the attacker hit (if the attack roll is good,
> RH> it is harder to block.)
>
> This is wrong. A Block roll is made *before* the attacker rolls to hit.
> In other words, it is impossible to determine what the attacker hit,
> because he has not hit anything, yet.
>
> It also makes Block nigh-useless as a defense when compared to Dodge.
First, sorry about the delay in getting back to this. My server was
changing hardware and it took several weeks to make the transfer.
Correct. The way block is written, the defender makes his roll
first. But it is a relatively simple step to have the attacker declare his
intent to attack, the defender states he will attempt to block the attack,
then have the attacker make his attack roll to see if a hit needs to be
blocked and if it needs to be blocked then see how hard it will be to block
it. The block action is attempted wether the attack lands or not, so the -2
effect of extra blocks is still counted. The proposal just makes combat a
bit more interesting when you are going toe to toe.
I am a bit unclear as to the meaning of your last statement. I think
you are saying that basing the block attempt on the "relative success" of the
attack makes it more or less pointless as a defence. I must disagree here.
The effect of tying the target number of the block to the attack roll makes
it easier to block about half the time and harder to block the other half. It
means that Granite OCV 3 has a chance of getting lucky if Speed Freak OCV 8
happens to make a pitiful attack (rolls a 16) which while it actually
connects, is somewhat easier to block.
Besides, as I said in an alternate post, if all you skill levels are
on OCV, they do diddly squat when dodging, so blocking is always a viable
defence.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:29:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> To provide a bit of reference, I am a sysmonster. That means my resume and
> business cards say "Unix Systems Administrator". "Computer Programming" is
> a skill I have at an 8- at best; I do not write code for a living, though I
> can cobble up shell scripts to automate routine tasks. A more apt general
> skill would be "Systems Operations", which is a "use computers" type of
> skil rather than "write code" type of skill. But the real meat of what I
> know is in "PS: Sysmonster". Any schmuck with a reasonable Systems
> Operation skill can navigate a file system, roll and extract tarballs, copy
> or move files around, etc. What he will not know is all the useful tricks,
> like 'tar cf - . | ( cd /foo; tar xpf - )' to make an exact duplicate of
> the current directory, including ownerships and permissions. Sure, the
> schmuck can probably mange holding down a sysmonster's position, if he has
> a GUI to hold his hands all the time (look at all the "Certified Windows/NT
> Administrators" out there these days :). But he is not going to be
> anywhere near as good at it as I am.
You've just illustrated it exactly, Rat. The PS is generally more
than just a simple ability as so many non PS skills are in Champs.
Writing, as a new skill, would be expressing PRE through writing,
basically. Teaching would be imparting knowledge. PS: Writing will give
a lot of the little tricks, etc that someone who makes their living
writing will know, much as your PS: Sysmonger gives you little tricks
Systems Ops (or Computer Operations, a personal skill) gives and different
than what Computer Programming gives.
A PS: Teacher can do all of the little things (and there are a lot
of them) that are necessary to keep a teaching job. This is everything
from planning parent-teacher conferences to supervising passing periods.
This isn't easy, but it's not Teaching, that is to say imparting
knowledge. That's something different and, sad to say, something some
teachers who are very good at being teachers are very bad at.
Similarly, someone with a high Computer Programming roll will be a
whiz at writing code, though I'd make him take a language skill for each
programming language. However, he's not going to know how to follow the
huge amount of procedure a coding job in the industry will require. A
race car driver will take a PS to reflect the working with a pit crew and
various other little things involved in the profession, but the driving
portion will be covered by combat driving.
Now, certain professions, whose skills aren't important outside of
a professional standpoint, will get along fine with the PS. PS: Plumber
is all a plumber needs. PS: Pizza Delivery Guy will be just fine for him.
(Though I'd add in a AK at least at the 11- for some of them.) PS:
Secretary will be fine for a secretary. PS: Lawyer will be OK, but it
won't be very good without a KS or two and some PRE skills for arguing
persuasively. He can argue without them, but an opponent with the skills
will debate circles around him.
> "PS: Knight" gives the knight a similar advantage over some schmuck that
> happens to be good with a sword. The Professional Skill says that the
> knight knows how to do things that can give him an advantage over the
> schmuck. What kind of things? If you are playing a knight, do some
> research into knightly things so you can role-play it.
Um. Why don't _you_ give us some examples, Rat?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca from opus@sprint.ca server @hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca ip 207.107.250.175
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:38:39 -0400
From: Cory Conrad <opus@sprint.ca>
Organization: Dreamriders Workshop
To: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> >>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some
> "cardboard
> hero" type counters in electronic format?<<
>
> Lots of people (myself included) are asking for more of those cardboard
> "miniatures". Hero or Gold Rush, are you taking notes? :-) My personal
> preference would be to have only silhouettes on these miniatures (just like
> the character sheets), so we could draw our own heroes/villains onto them.
> Sounds like an inexpensive project that is highly desired.
Well for what it is worth I am paying attention. :)
I personally own just about all of the old SJG Cardboard Heroes with
some small plastic ants and spiders thrown in for good measure.
Currently we have all our artists wrapped up in the various comics we
are producing for the Fuzion game system (Currently FTR: Federal
Tactical Response, Flat Black, Revenant, and Night's Edge). That and
there is the Cold Fuzion print magazine which is in the works.
So when we get a chance we will have honest-to-goodness comic artists
working on cardboard miniatures.
--
Cory Conrad
Dreamriders Workshop
------------------------------------------
Fuzion, Comics, and a touch of Magic
http://www.dreamriders.com/
------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:59:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >I think my argument comes from a 'gut-reaction' of "800 points! For
> >what?" Li Chun the Destroyer (Hey... "LI CHUN"? Steve, were you playing
> >Streetfighter II while writing this? ^_^).
>
> Heh. Just out of curiosity, what does Li Chun mean in Chinese? This could be
> actually significant...
Depends on how you write it.
> > Any way Li Chun is supposed to
> >be a team-trasher, 832 points is okay. Lin Hu is supposed to be the
> >world's best, but does he need 855 points to do it?
> >
> >To be honest, a closer look does show that some of those points are spent
> >on pretty useless KS skills (do you really need to spend 66 points for a
> >KS of every known martial art, or could you just by KS: Martial Arts 23-
> >and be done with it?)
>
> THAT is very true. I wondered on that one myself. And I would have given Lin
> Hu some martial arts - just so he could do the 'normal' Martial Throw which
> is annoying to simulate with dumb stuff like 'Double Knockback'. Martial
> Throw, Martial Strike, and most of the exert maneuvers. Let him use his VPP
> for extra STR only to do damage, 0 END, but he does Knockback like a regular
> martial artist (he just uses martial strike all the time).
I agree, a scattering of throws and such would be nice.
> He also drops 34 points to know how to use every
> >weapon known to man... but that's sorta unavoidable.
>
> Yup. Though he has a 60 point weapon VPP; he's paid points for just about
> every martial arts weapon known to man, so he doesn't need the FAM to use
> them, does he? But I suppose he's going to be teaching others...the FAMs
> make sense.
Heh, I forgot about that one. Yeah, he technically has paid the points to
have any weapon he wants, why the FAM?
> >Finally, some of his stats are (IMHO) a bit inflated. 35 DEX, 8 SPD
> >and +9
> >DEX Lightning Reflexes? Way to much. I'd go 30 DEX, 7 SPD and skill
> >levels. (Yeah, even on top of his 8 HTH and 2 Overall). I think too many
> >people pump DEX for its CV valuse alone, as oppsoed to using CSLs to
> >represent fighting skill and experience .
>
> I'd feel no remorse giving Lin Hu a 12 SPD. Watching him fight would
> probably be a lot like a movie martial arts fight where everything an
> opponant does has him running into an arm, leg, elbow, knee, forehead, etc.
> IOW, any fight Lin Hu gets into looks like the fight was coreographed for
> Lin Hu to win in the minimum possible time while the bad guys fall all over
> themselves to 'let' Lin Hu beat them up :-).
12 SPD? Whew... I dunno.
> As for the DEX, I'm afraid that's an artifact of the way 'standard'
> superhero martial artists are built (27 DEX for Seeker, etc.).
Yeah, I guess so.
> >80 points for martial arts powers sounds okay. Exactly what super
> >abilities do you want to simulate that you can't fit into 80 Active
> >Points? HKAs, AF Punches, AoE Punches, Chi blasts... what else?
>
> I'd expect Lin Hu to be able to do some _vile_ Dim Mak abilities, but TUMA
> slaps on Invisible (+3/4) and Massive Time Delays for the return rate of the
> Drains. I think Lin Hu should have a 'real' point limitation to his powers,
> but effectively no _active_ point limitation. Lin Hu couldn't even do Qi
> Feng's Dim Mak on 80 points.
Hmm.. I see your point.
> >Looking at my own Kazei Five manuscript, I find that there is one 836
> >point character, one 700 point character
>
> That'd be Ran and Shion, truly vile psychokinetics, right? Just how big was
> Ran's VPP again? :-)
Uh... err... ahem... 200 points...
Gee... look at the time, I gotta go! Bye all!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca from opus@sprint.ca server @hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca ip 207.107.250.175
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:01:04 -0400
From: Cory Conrad <opus@sprint.ca>
Organization: Dreamriders Workshop
To: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
CC: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
>
> As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
> Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
> any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
> to use my own material.
What?!? No one metioned the illustrious Foxbat as their favorite?
I even created a battle cry for him: "Pong!"
Well, I like the Tick for the same reasons. Silly, but dangerous if not
taken seriously.
--
Cory Conrad
Dreamriders Workshop
------------------------------------------
Fuzion, Comics, and a touch of Magic
http://www.dreamriders.com/
------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:47:36 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< You aren't the only one whose posts aren't being read carefully. Note the
inclusion of "probably" and "*may* not have" as qualifiers in my last
sentence. >>
Lighten up, dude. I was adding to your example, not trying to challenge or
contradict it. Sheesh. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:56:24 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Just couldn't let one post go by with bringing up the publisher thing
again, could you? >>
Wasn't trying to beat a dead horse or anything of the sort. I honestly am
swamped and recently had the layout job dropped in my lap -- two months past
deadline -- by someone who suddenly had to back out of the project.
And why do you imply that I mention it every post? I don't. Unless you're
referring to my "Mark @ GRG" sig. :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 04:11:17 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Yes, we've established repeatedly that you are a publisher of Hero System
books, no need to beat anyone over the head with it. >>
That's not my intent.
<< I believe I can safely assume that you are, overall, more familiar with the
Hero rules than I am. But am I also to assume that the publication of a
couple of adventure books empowers said publisher to be The Final Word on
interpretation of rules in earlier works he *didn't* publish? >>
Umm... nope. :)
<< I wasn't approaching you, individually, as a publisher, to get an
"official" ruling on this. >>
And I didn't initially post my 200 point cop comment with the intent to
establish an "official ruling" on PSs. That whole degradation came about
because some people were too unwilling to see one example from an as yet
unpublished book go by without running it through the proverbial grinder.
As for official rulings... please bear in mind that I have been flamed for
NOT providing official rulings on issues, even when it's not my place to do
so. So what do you people want from me? Either my status as a publisher has
bearing or it does not. But for crying out loud, please don't make me feel
unwelcomed just because I disagree with you.
<< For an "official" ruling I probably would have asked Steve Long whether any
clarification was planned for 5th Edition. >>
Asking the freelance author for an official ruling makes more sense than
asking the publisher, or ever the designers of the original rules system??
Whoa! Have I been slammed or what? <LOL>
<< I was asking you... to please explain to me what existing published rules
shaped that view... >>
And I thought we did just that. But it really revolves around interpretation
and implementation of a rule, not the mere presence or absence of one in this
case. :/
<< Asking for specific instruction and information is preaching? >>
None of your posts came across to me as asking for specific instruction. If
you care to reword your question, I can see about tryingf to answer it
directly. But I'm afraid on this PS issue I may be unable to. I have already
stated what I believe the spirit of the rules to be in this matter. The only
way to get a truly official "ruling" is to get a response from the designers.
If an official ruling isn't needed (i.e., if we're simply debating the
interpretation of the PS description on a philosophical level) then that's
another story. ;)
<< I have as many house rules and modifications of standard rules as anyone,
but I do think it's appropriate to be sure what the rule says before you go
changing it.>>
I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, the rule in question has been posted
verbatim twice to this list, and yet the debate rages on. <LOL>
And did I mention that I was a publisher as well? ;)
Look, I love this list and everybody on it. (Group hugs) We all ove the same
game, and I will say right here and right now that everybody's style of play
and interpretations of the rules are the next. I may not agree with someone's
style of play, but I will defend to "-30 Stun/GM's Option" the right of every
person to play in that style! :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 04:21:31 EDT
To: rholding@ActOnline.com.au, champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
This is a very old net hoax. There is no such virus, nor has there ever
been, and doubtful ever will be. A virus simply cannot be transmitted by an
ASCII text message (aka e-mail). Now, an attached file *could* carry a virus
(or *be* a virus). But simply opening e-mail does nothing.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:28:42 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:56 AM 4/16/98 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< Just couldn't let one post go by with bringing up the publisher thing
>again, could you? >>
>
> Wasn't trying to beat a dead horse or anything of the sort. I honestly am
>swamped and recently had the layout job dropped in my lap -- two months past
>deadline -- by someone who suddenly had to back out of the project.
After nearly two years of hearing the cries and lamentations of a few people
on this list about the lack of an Offical presense on the list I think Mark
should start all of hhis posts by saying...
I am Mark, I publish 4th edition Hero prouducts and other stuff...
Just my opinion...
Michael
The guy who publishes Herozine...
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:28:44 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:01 PM 4/15/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, William K Bushway wrote:
>> Hmmm... I agree that each slot should be an ultra. But,
>> considering that the size of the point reserve will most likely be based
>> on the biggest power (Royal Flush), putting a -1 limit on said power would
>> be a bit of a faux pas. ;)
>
>I don't follow you here...I was going to partially limit the
>multipower...10 pts of the reserve (to pull a number out of my hat)
>would be unlimited, the next 10 would have 'only if 1 pair is drawn', the
>next 10 'only if 2 pair', etc. Overall limitations would be OAF: Cards,
>gestures, full phase, and 'must use best hand'. I think the 'side
>effects' are a -0 since they're pretty rare.
In other words, something pretty close to what I suggested?
BTW, for "Must Use Best Hand," I'd recommend -1/2 as a bonus level.
>> > What bothers me is having the player spend so many points for a
>> > power he might never get to use. I think the minimum I'll go with on the
>> > high-level powers is Activate 8- (-2) and NCC (-2) - that would make it
>> > seem to be rare enough...
>>
>> Well, time for somebody with a scientific calculator to supply us
>> with some probabilities. I tend to belive that the chance of drawing a
>> royal flush is a little less than 8-.
>
>The chance of getting it 'pat (first hand) is somewhere in the .00005%
>range. That's why I added 'No Conscious Control'. I was pondering
>applying multiple activation rolls, too, to get the percentages right.
>(i.e. two 11- (50%) activation rolls would really be 25%...)
Don't bother with the NCC. This Limitation basically means that the
Power is under the control of the GM rather than the player. By the time
you get to the "Must Make [Given Hand]" Limitation for that level, though,
you'll be approaching (if not exceeding) that level of Limitation anyway.
And by the way, actually 11- is about 62%; twice that is around 38%. If
you want a 25% chance, though, just try an 8- Activation.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:30:33 -0700
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 08:48 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Michael Sprague wrote:
>There is a software package, called Poser 2, by Fractal Design that _looks_
>like it could be a good way to create a bunch of Cardboard Heroes. It's
>intent is to create realistic looking 3-D people, from babies to
>super-heroic physique. It looks like you can add clothing (costume) and
>additional stuff (extra arms?) to personalize each one. Once you create
>one, you can rotate and look (print) it at any angle, so it would be easy to
>get a front and rear view of the same pose.
>
>I would love knowing how to use this software, but I simply don't have the
>time. Has anyone tried it?
I haven't tried it, but for various purposes (this among them) it is on
my "To Get" list of software. Therefore I would like to hear what anyone
else has to say about the program....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:39:26 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 09:40 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>> Any way Li Chun is supposed to
>>be a team-trasher, 832 points is okay. Lin Hu is supposed to be the
>>world's best, but does he need 855 points to do it?
>>
>>To be honest, a closer look does show that some of those points are spent
>>on pretty useless KS skills (do you really need to spend 66 points for a
>>KS of every known martial art, or could you just by KS: Martial Arts 23-
>>and be done with it?)
>
>THAT is very true. I wondered on that one myself. And I would have given Lin
>Hu some martial arts - just so he could do the 'normal' Martial Throw which
>is annoying to simulate with dumb stuff like 'Double Knockback'. Martial
>Throw, Martial Strike, and most of the exert maneuvers. Let him use his VPP
>for extra STR only to do damage, 0 END, but he does Knockback like a regular
>martial artist (he just uses martial strike all the time).
I think it could be argued that Lin Hu is one of those unique cases
where one could justify allowing the VPP points to be spent on Martial Arts
maneuvers (though whether I'd allow him to put a lot of extra Damage
Classes in with it is a matter of consideration; it would be obscenely
powerful at 80 points, but then again he *is* the best Martial Artist in
the world).
>>> >> Oh, who else wants to see a full write up of all of the Tiger Squad?
>>> >
>>> >Hmmm... sure. But isn't that like... 35 people?
>>>
>>> Yeah. So?
>>
>>Just that it would be a sourcebook all to itself.
>
>Yeah. So? :-) While we're at it, we need the Pacific Lords as well...^_^
And I have both groups slated for Far East Enemies, once I get around to
doing that book. (In fact, I have HeroMaker files as well as sketch notes
for most of the Pacific Lords, at that, as well as some seeds for internal
politics and such.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel8.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel8.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.58
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:17:22 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:29 PM 4/15/98 -0400, Leah L Watts wrote:
><< Most Champions supplements, modules, etc. have a distinctly liberal
>>bent to
>>them (IMHO). Does anyone run their games more middle of the road or
>>conservative?>>
>>
>> Now this is an interesting observation. Do you have any examples?
>
>Or better yet, definitions? "Liberal" and "Conservative" mean different
>things to different people.
>
Oh boy. Well, it's going to be difficult to keep this in genre, so let
me at least try to keep it short.
You want a classic definition? Liberals advocate changes to the system,
while conservatives resist change. This definition has gone mostly by
the wayside.
A spectrum definition: Liberals are aligned with the "left" on a one-
dimensional line, while conservatives are plotted on the "right". This
has never really made much sense, as it refers to the seating chart of
the British Parliament.
A more modern application: Liberals tend to favor higher taxation and
income redistribution in the name of fairness and level playing fields,
and support a more lenient or flexible view of personal conduct
standards. Conservatives talk of stricter moral and personal
restrictions in the name of family values and strengthening of the
moral fiber of civilization, while supporting fewer assaults on personal
and corporate finances. In practice, though, there are few modern
politicians that fall into either of these categories.
As you asked only about "liberals" and "conservatives", I'll save my
"libertarian" diatribe for another time. (Personal freedom plus
financial freedom)
Now, as to how this applies in role-playing, I'm not sure. Obviously,
individual characters can have their own personal political philosophies,
in which case, to say that there's a "liberal bent" would imply that most
or all of your characters are played as liberals. The superhero group
itself might have a political agenda, as shown through speeches and
public actions. Again, though, this is not due to the supplements or
other Champions creations.
One area for political agenda might be the judicial system described
(I think) in DARK CHAMPIONS -- or for that matter, the judicial system
as built in your own Champions universe. Court decisions and precedents
might tend toward different points on the political chart (which, by the
way, is not a straight line, folks).
If your campaign deals heavily with the government, you might run into
political considerations, although I suspect that most of this will run
toward the fringe, conspiracy theory types.
Another example might be a campaign where the government has swung to
an extreme political position. Let's say, the authoritarian, "Big
Brother" type system. In this case, the political bent of your campaign
will probably be exactly opposite to that system -- in this case,
libertarian freedom fighters. This could theoretically be done with any
combination of political philosophies, although most probably (and most
interestingly) will be done with the diametrical opposites.
I'm thinking of all this as I type, and I still haven't thought of an
example in the Champions resources where any particular political thought
is overrepresented. I'm still hoping that the original poster will
provide some illustrations, as it is an intriguing subject.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:18:29 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
>campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
>campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
>Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
>haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
>were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
>Inc. was also a big player.
One team that I use, that I am surprised no one else has mentioned, is
Deathstroke. This team is great for the circles you can run with their
competancy, mental stability and they work fine for both
world-threatening plots and bank robberies.
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
To: andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com (Andreano Keith HIM VA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 06:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >I do know that as most of the players in our group are more
> >conservative (libertarian, actually), we have a habit of
> playing it that way.
>
> I do the same.
Heh. Growing up in San Francisco I always assummed RPG'er were
a more liberal group. Currently I've somehow amased a group of players
from the midwest. Every now and then they say something about guns,
the environment, or whatever that from my worldview is absurd.
Fortunatley living abroad has tought me to keep from making a scene
when my views difer. But I doubt these guys will last too many years
with those views in this city. :)
> >There are exceptions. I find that we play most city officials
> >as pathetically liberal. (oops. redundant.)
>
> Same here too! ^_^;
Reverse here. I guess we Americans assume politicians to be stupid.
So naturally we play them to the politiical leanings we find to be stupid.
Which means you conservatives play them liberal while us liberals play them
conservative. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:06:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 08:48 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Michael Sprague wrote:
> >There is a software package, called Poser 2, by Fractal Design that _looks_
> >like it could be a good way to create a bunch of Cardboard Heroes. It's
> >intent is to create realistic looking 3-D people, from babies to
> >super-heroic physique. It looks like you can add clothing (costume) and
> >additional stuff (extra arms?) to personalize each one. Once you create
> >one, you can rotate and look (print) it at any angle, so it would be easy to
> >get a front and rear view of the same pose.
> >
> >I would love knowing how to use this software, but I simply don't have the
> >time. Has anyone tried it?
>
> I haven't tried it, but for various purposes (this among them) it is on
> my "To Get" list of software. Therefore I would like to hear what anyone
> else has to say about the program....
I've got it, and it works pretty well. You can adjust the pose or use one
of several preset poses, you can create a color map to overlay on the
figure (I haven't done this yet) and if you've got another 3d package, you
can model stuff there and either import it as a prop or use it to replace
one of the existing things (hand/forearm/arm/head/chest/etc). If you were
really dedicated and a modeling whiz, you could use the program to create
mecha that moved like humans...
One other thing that Poser 2 does is animate the figures - you can define
keyframes and watch the thing move. Be aware that it's a 3d rendering
program, though, so any anymations you do will take a /long/ time to
finish, unless (and probably even if) you've got a professional-level
graphics setup.
You can print directly or (my favorite) export the figure into another 3d
program, or even export a rendered picture into a regular paint program.
My advice: If you need it for more than just Cardboard Heros, get it. If
it's just for gaming stuff, it might be a bit expensive - you might want
to try looking for an old copy of Poser 1 (less features, no animation,
but cheaper).
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.globalserve.net from hartjes@ionsys.com server @smtp2.globalserve.net ip 209.90.128.7
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:15:08 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <hartjes@ionsys.com>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Do we *really* have to talk about politics. Are there no other topics
that can be used for personal assaults and long-winded posts that
degenerate into "my way or the highway"? I fail to see what politcs has
to do with Champions. Being a Canadian, I find the whole US political
system a constant source of amusement and I keep politics out of my
campaigns. Nothing ruins a good discussion more than politics.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo owlnet.rice.edu from chip@owlnet.rice.edu server @owlnet.rice.edu ip 128.42.49.7
X-Authentication-Warning: snowy.owlnet.rice.edu: chip owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:30:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Rick Holding wrote:
> Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> > >>>>> "RH" == Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> writes:
> > RH> You still must declare the block before the attack roll is made but
> > RH> after the attack decleratiaon, that is true. But many people also play
> > RH> that you must block what the attacker hit (if the attack roll is good,
> > RH> it is harder to block.)
> > This is wrong. A Block roll is made *before* the attacker rolls to hit.
> > In other words, it is impossible to determine what the attacker hit,
> > because he has not hit anything, yet.
> > It also makes Block nigh-useless as a defense when compared to Dodge.
> Correct. The way block is written, the defender makes his roll
> first. But it is a relatively simple step to have the attacker declare his
> intent to attack, the defender states he will attempt to block the attack,
> then have the attacker make his attack roll to see if a hit needs to be
> blocked and if it needs to be blocked then see how hard it will be to block
> it. The block action is attempted wether the attack lands or not, so the -2
> effect of extra blocks is still counted. The proposal just makes combat a
> bit more interesting when you are going toe to toe.
> I am a bit unclear as to the meaning of your last statement. I think
> you are saying that basing the block attempt on the "relative success" of the
> attack makes it more or less pointless as a defence. I must disagree here.
> The effect of tying the target number of the block to the attack roll makes
> it easier to block about half the time and harder to block the other half. It
> means that Granite OCV 3 has a chance of getting lucky if Speed Freak OCV 8
> happens to make a pitiful attack (rolls a 16) which while it actually
> connects, is somewhat easier to block.
In order for this analysis to be correct, we have to assume that rolls of
11+ are about as likely to hit as rolls of 11-... which isn't true. The
rolls which you really *need* to block are the lower ones, which are more
likely to hit. In the system as written, blocking an attack is based on
the relative skill of attacker and defender--OCV vs. OCV... in your system
blocking is less a matter of skill as it is of luck. While I understand
your interpretation that "lower rolls mean better attacks," which should
therefore be more difficult to block, one of the primary appeals of block
is the much higher defensive capability you have, even if your opponent
gets "lucky." With block you even out the bell curve... both a good roll
on your opponent's part and a bad roll on your part are needed to get hit.
Although the mechanics can have many special effects, you can imagine that
someone is concentrating on watching his opponent's moves, waiting for the
chance to deflect a strike; it doesn't matter how "good" the strike is, it
could be a beauty to your stomach, for instance, but if I can hit your arm
before you hit me, that's a block. If you wanted to develop some other
house rule for making attacks more difficult to block, like feints, or
attacking from unpredictable directions, I'm sure it would be fine. The
UMA suggests using Sleight of Hand for this purpose... I might also
suggest allowing one OCV combat level to count as +2 OCV, vs. blocks only.
As for not rolling the block first, I'll repost an older post in this
thread.
From: Darien Phoenix Lynx <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
> At 09:02 AM 3/31/98 -0600, Darien Phoenix Lynx wrote:
> >Not true! If the block misses, you can no longer block until your next
> >action... every block should be rolled, *before* the roll to hit is made.
> I stand corrected. With multiple attackers, you would have
> to do it that way. In a one-on-one combat, you could shave
> off a little time by ignoring the roll.
Either way, there is 1 or 2 rolls. If the block is successful, you needn't
roll to see if the attacker hit. I think it's a good idea to get in the
habit of rolling the block first to avoid confusion.
Even in one-on-one combat, one attacker might get two or more attacks
against a single block maneuver due to a higher speed or a held action.
This happens regularly during swashbuckling swordfights in our Fantasy
Hero campaign... waiting for the chance to throw off your opponent's
parrying with a quick flourish.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eagle-140.raptor.com from jcalvaneso@raptor.com server @eagle1a.raptor.com ip 209.48.140.11
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:49:03 -0400
From: Justin Calvaneso <jcalvaneso@raptor.com>
Organization: Raptor Systems
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Allen Shock wrote:
> Without a doubt, Foxbat.
Yay Foxbat! ^.^ Believe it or not Bay City was my first exposure to this
character. There's plenty of potential in a comic relief/irritating villian.
Back in the day when I used to run a Heroes Unlimited campaign (I didn't know
any better), I always enjoyed using 'The Mighty Static Man' from Villians
Unlimited to knock the PC's down a few pegs every now and then. Humility is an
important heroic lesson. =P Bay City (It's Fuzion, for you Hero only guys who
aren't keeping score) didn't have all that much on the original Foxbat. I'd like
to scrap together a list of the book he's appeared in thus far. Can anyone help?
I think there's Enemies Assemble, Foxbat Unhinged, any others? Danke.
---
Justin Calvaneso Raptor Systems, Inc.
Test Lab Technician a division of Axent Technologies
jcalvaneso@raptor.com 266 Second Avenue
(781) 530-2362 Waltham, MA 02154
---
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:55:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 11:01 PM 4/15/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
> >
> >I don't follow you here...I was going to partially limit the
> >multipower...10 pts of the reserve (to pull a number out of my hat)
> >would be unlimited, the next 10 would have 'only if 1 pair is drawn', the
> >next 10 'only if 2 pair', etc. Overall limitations would be OAF: Cards,
> >gestures, full phase, and 'must use best hand'. I think the 'side
> >effects' are a -0 since they're pretty rare.
>
> In other words, something pretty close to what I suggested?
> BTW, for "Must Use Best Hand," I'd recommend -1/2 as a bonus level.
Yeah. It was the 'must have X hand' that was tripping me up. Is that
suggested -1/2 for everything, or should I be using -1/2 instead of -1/4
for each level of 'Must have X hand'?
> >The chance of getting it 'pat (first hand) is somewhere in the .00005%
> >range. That's why I added 'No Conscious Control'. I was pondering
> >applying multiple activation rolls, too, to get the percentages right.
> >(i.e. two 11- (50%) activation rolls would really be 25%...)
> By the time
> you get to the "Must Make [Given Hand]" Limitation for that level, though,
> you'll be approaching (if not exceeding) that level of Limitation anyway.
Well, if I use -1/4 per level, I won't - 10 hands = -2 1/2 limit for the
Royal Flush. If I'm using -1/2 per level, then it certainly works
better...
The thing that bothers me about using a steady progression is that the
jumps between the odds of getting each hand aren't even...this might be
small enough to even out in gameplay, I'm not sure.
> And by the way, actually 11- is about 62%; twice that is around 38%. If
> you want a 25% chance, though, just try an 8- Activation.
That'll teach me to post without my reference material. Lemme try this
again. Lets put two 8- activation rolls on the power for a total of -4
limit - the power has a 6.25% chance of working then (25% of 25%) -
roughly equivalent to a 5- activation (4.5%). Continue to add activation
rolls of various sizes until you get to the % you want...
Does this seem way off or is it actually usable?
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:00:18 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Long Walker Rocks! Not only is her personality a great source of amusement
when interacting with the players, but I like her background too.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Surbrook [SMTP:susano@access.digex.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 8:06 PM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
>
> Felix-9 and Long Walker (Allies) - Walker's personality was just too cool,
> and Felix demanded to be droped into my Kazei 5 cyberpunk game.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel8.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel8.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.58
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:08:27 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Reverse here. I guess we Americans assume politicians to be stupid.
>So naturally we play them to the politiical leanings we find to be stupid.
>Which means you conservatives play them liberal while us liberals play them
>conservative. :)
Heh! An interesting take! :)
Actually, I'll play them as an exaggerated version of what they
already are. And I usually pick the most extreme examples anyway.
If we have a local bible-thumping conservative in the news, I'll
use him as an extreme "right-winger". Whereas, our local race-
baiters love to criticize our superhero group for being lacking
in multiculturalism.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel8.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel8.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.58
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:11:18 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:15 AM 4/16/98 -0400, Chris Hartjes wrote:
>Do we *really* have to talk about politics. Are there no other topics
>that can be used for personal assaults and long-winded posts that
>degenerate into "my way or the highway"? I fail to see what politcs has
>to do with Champions. Being a Canadian, I find the whole US political
>system a constant source of amusement and I keep politics out of my
>campaigns. Nothing ruins a good discussion more than politics.
>
Just because *you* don't have the stomach or interest for politics
doesn't mean that the rest of us can't use it as a useful role-playing
tool.
P.S. I sure as hell hope, for the sake of your country, that you
don't actually vote.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.136
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:12:17 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: CLOWN
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA27635
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by John and Ron Prins
>Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a
guy
who chases whomever is currently 'it'.<
Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people on this
list hate them?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo osf1.gmu.edu from wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu server @osf1.gmu.edu ip 129.174.1.13
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:50:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Justin Calvaneso wrote:
> I'd like to scrap together a list of the book he's appeared in thus far.
> Can anyone help? I think there's Enemies Assemble, Foxbat Unhinged, any
> others? Danke.
His writeup can be found in Classic Enemies (and I think his _original_
writeup first appeared in Enemies 2, for 1st Edition).
He plays a small role in the Sanctuary section of Classic Organizations (I
don't remember if he was involved in the Assault on Sanctuary, but I do
recall Freddy Foswell sneaking into the Superhero summercamp scenario).
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
To: kevinc@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kevin Criscione)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:01:50 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org, Lindsley@kuphsx.phsx.ukans.edu
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>>>>> Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
>>>>>>on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
>>>>> bunch of
>>>>>>anime movies.
>>>>>>
>>> I suspect a lot of the problem is that people writing gaming books look to
>>> other gaming books as sources. How did GURPS China and GURPS Japan come out?
>> They were decent, and ocaisionally even accurate.
>>
>>The problem is twofold.
>>
>>1. Most westerners have very little clue on asia. That's the nature of our
>> society. By converse, most asian societies today study the west in
>> great detail.
>>
>>2. Asia is a living breathing place. It's not today what it was 500 years ago,
>> let alone even 5 years ago. Most of the stuff I see on asia uses out
>> of date stereotypes that were hardly accurate to begin with.
>>
>> I'd like to see a book on asia written by people who have lived there.
>>It's quite a rich place for both fantasy and super roleplay.
>
> Well, the character write-ups (game mechanics only and with a number of
> familiar anime references) for the proposed "Champions of Nippon" are
> finished and my co-author, who is doing the social aspects of the book has
> had a long time interest in Japanese culture and is currently living and
> working in Japan for two years. Does that qualify?
I suppose it would, for that one small region of asia. But it would be
regretable if it falls down to an anime crutch. ANIME HERO is the place for
that.
It's kind of like doing a book on the USA and using 'Pinky and the
Brain' as your source material.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo osf1.gmu.edu from wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu server @osf1.gmu.edu ip 129.174.1.13
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:18:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Sakura wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, William K Bushway wrote:
> > Hmmm... I agree that each slot should be an ultra. But,
> > considering that the size of the point reserve will most likely be based
> > on the biggest power (Royal Flush), putting a -1 limit on said power would
> > be a bit of a faux pas. ;)
>
> I don't follow you here...
Sorry, what I was trying to say was that the -1/2 Limitation: only
one power at a time, should be applied to the powers themselves, not the
whole multipower. My reasoning is this; If you place the -1/2
limitation on the multipower, you are - in effect - placing that
limitation on every power, right? Now, with said limitation, it would
only make sense to make the point pool equal to the cost of the largest
power in the multipower (Royal Flush). Because it too will be an Ultra
slot, and uses up all the points in the pool (thus making it impossible to
use any other powers, even without the limitation), you are effectively
putting a limitation on a power that already has said limitation.
That's still a little confusing... let me put it this way: If I
have a 50 pt. Multipower, and all my slots are ultras, and all said slots
use the whole 50 pts., is it fair to give the multipower the Lim: Can only
use one power at a time? No, because it already has that limitation built
in, because of the way I've structured the multipower.
Yeah, it's nitpicky, so sue me.
> > and 7 too complex (How would you model a limit break? An END reserve,
> > equal to the END cost of the Limit attack, that fills up when you take
> > STUN?)
>
> Actually, this is something I've figured out already. 8)
<Snipping the mechanics>
That makes sense, because in III, each character did possess a
kind of Limit Break that activated when their health level was critical.
> Materia would be a bit more difficult, but I didn't care for the materia
> system, because it left the characters too undifferentiated.
Me either, but it was the logical outgrowth of III's Espers. I
still think II was the best FF released in the U.S.
> The plot and world, however, are my own (except for the 'classic bits' -
> an airship, Chocobos, a guy named Cid...)
Square's explanation for the dis-connectedness of the Final
Fantasy installments is that each game is the "Final Fantasy", the last
great epic story, of that world. Running your own setting is actually
perfectly consistant with that ideal.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:21:45 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote:
>>>
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Justin Calvaneso wrote:
> I'd like to scrap together a list of the book he's appeared in thus far.
> Can anyone help? I think there's Enemies Assemble, Foxbat Unhinged, any
> others? Danke.
His writeup can be found in Classic Enemies (and I think his _original_
writeup first appeared in Enemies 2, for 1st Edition).
He plays a small role in the Sanctuary section of Classic Organizations (I
don't remember if he was involved in the Assault on Sanctuary, but I do
recall Freddy Foswell sneaking into the Superhero summercamp scenario).
<<<
Foxbat spoke up in the Adventurer's Club letter column for quite
a while, and was frequently mentioned even when they decided it
was silly and tried to get rid of him. He also appeared as the
illustration for "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" game review
column.
Champions II had a running Foxbat strip appearing throughout the
rulebook. It also featured his ally Exo-Skeleton Man and the
infamous Centipedemobile.
I believe he also showed up in some of the Champions comics. (Those
were pretty awful, by the way.)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwu.ericy.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwu.ericy.com ip 208.196.3.162
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:21:50 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I think the only time politics came up in my game was when one of the
players said "don't run a 'rescue President 'x'" scenario, because my
character won't bother". Of course his character always have the same politics
as he does.
Curt
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo relia.net from mhoram@relia.net server @saturn.relia.net ip 207.173.156.8
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:39:25 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, which published villains make regular appearances in your
> campaigns? I assume Viper is probably a mainstay in the majority of
> campaigns, but how about groups like Zodiac or solo villains like Dark
> Seraph (just to throw out some names)? My campaign has just started so I
> haven't pinned down the regulars yet, but in past campaigns Viper and Demon
> were the two most regularly featured villain organizations, and Terror,
> Inc. was also a big player.
I used PSI extensively for a while, but for an express purpose. I put
them in and made them so extremly nasty that the team took them out,
permanatly.
I use Mechanon (under another alias), because one of the original
characters in the campaign had a bit of background that she invented
him.
Terror Inc are fun incompetants (powerfull incompetants but
incompetants)
In both campaigns I've GMed the Golden Avenger has ended up a villian,
and usually a campaign favorite. I guess I stress his racism and
manipulation/slimy factor a bit 8)
ATLAS has been a big deal. The team defeated them, the team PC telepath
(also a psychologist) fixed Peacemonger, he joined the team, and the
team took over the moonbase as thier own. Ego ended up in PSI.
VIPER has been used, but just recently completely trashed as a world
super agent power, the remnants are going to come together under
Armstrong (leader of VF2).
Genocide is used but with almost nothing in common with any published
versions. Golden Avenger became on of the bishops. So did Mechanon (the
PC that built him worked with the guy that became the White King..
Mechanon sees her as Mom and him as Dad).
Doctor Destroyer is around, and in the news, but almost never used. Just
once.. when the team got new members they fought him (and Mechanon,
Viperia, Archimago and Menton).
The Knightsaber (from Herioc Adventures 2) has been a reaccuring
character/situation as well.
--
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and
goes through their pockets. -- Eddy Peters
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hil-img-1.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @hil-img-1.compuserve.com ip 149.174.177.131
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:00:55 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Cc: "[unknown]" <CHAMP-L@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id NAA02508
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Michael Surbrook
>The Blood (Blood and Dr. McQuark) - all of them, but especially "The
Affrighter". Okor showed up in at least 4 local games at last count.<
Can you tell me a little about this supplement? I never picked it up, and
don't know what I might have missed....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail1.geo.net from lizard@mrlizard.com server @mail1.geo.net ip 166.90.101.11
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:05:40 -0700
To: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au&>
champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:33 PM 4/16/98 -0700, Rick Holding wrote:
>-- Just passing this along from a friend.
Someone failed an INT roll. Badly.
PT Barnum was wrong. More like every *second*.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:10:43 -0400
From: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
>>>
I think the only time politics came up in my game was when one of the
players said "don't run a 'rescue President 'x'" scenario, because my
character won't bother". Of course his character always have the same politics
as he does.
<<<
In one of my old campaigns, the player creating the hero "Shock"
described his political views as just like his own - he was
pretty left-wing.
In the course of one of his first adventures, Shock ran into
Ernie Brown, a lowbrow semi-corrupt cop with a Rush Limbaugh
Republican world view. Shock started humoring Ernie in an
attempt to get information out of him, but the player had so
much fun with the right-wing rhetoric he soon decided that those
really were Shock's views after all.
Most interestingly, a few years later the player himself swung
far to the right on the political spectrum. He was a big Ross
Perot supporter, and now spends most of his time expounding the
wonders of the free market, despising liberal economic policies.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:11:30 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
Hero Games people said there was "No Market" for it and
"Anime doesn't even deserve a sourcebook since it isn't
a specific genre." Lots people complained, but they no listen!
Anyone out there disagree?
Gold Rush Games listening?
Puma could contribute much for it yes!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:35:55 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Okay, this is an outline in progress and is NOT the final outline,
necessarily. But a few people expressed interest in seeing more Law & Order
material, so here you go. ;)
Mark @ GRG
=========================================================
HOW TO USE THIS BOOK <B-Header>
AUTHOR'S NOTES <B-Header>
USING LAW AND ORDER IN OTHER GENRES <B-Header>
FANTASY HERO/MEDIEVAL <C-Header>
GOLDEN AGE CHAMPIONS/1930s-1950s <C-Header>
HORROR HERO/HORROR <C-Header>
STAR HERO/SCI-FI <C-Header>
DARK CHAMPIONS/MODERN <C-Header>
CHAMPIONS/MODERN SUPERHERO <C-Header>
LAW ENFORCEMENT SUB-GENRES <B-Header>
ADVENTURE <C-Header>
SERIAL DRAMA <C-Header>
INVESTIGATION <C-Header>
THE LIGHTER SIDE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT <C-Header>
COVERT ACTION <C-Header>
BIBLIOGRAPHY & FILMOGRAPHY <B-Header>
COPS IN THE CAMPAIGN <A-Header>
WHAT IS A COP? <B-Header>
DEFINITION <C-Header>
A HISTORY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT <C-Header>
A DAY IN THE LIFE <C-Header>
INSIDE A COP'S HEAD (PSYCHOLOGY) <C-Header>
How Cops View Others <D-Header>
Other Cops <E-Header>
Citizens At Large <E-Header>
Politicians <E-Header>
Attorneys <E-Header>
Criminals <E-Header>
How Cops View Themselves <D-Header>
THE ROLE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT <B-Header>
WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR? <C-Header>
USING COPS INTELLIGENTLY <C-Header>
THE BROTHERHOOD <B-Header>
THE LAW ENFORCEMENT FAMILY <C-Header>
TRUST <C-Header>
GOOD OLD BOYS <C-Header>
COVER-UPS <C-Header>
INTERAGENCY COOPERATION <B-Header>
JOINT OPERATIONS <C-Header>
CROSSING JURISDICTIONAL LINES <C-Header>
DEALING WITH PARANORMALS <B-Header>
SANCTIONED HEROES <C-Header>
SUPERVILLAINS <C-Header>
Arresting Supervillains <D-Header>
Special Arrangements <D-Header>
Containment <E-Header>
Transportation <E-Header>
Super Jails <E-Header>
EFFECTS OF PARANORMAL POWERS ON CRIME <C-Header>
How Are They Viewed? <D-Header>
Legal Considerations <D-Header>
Police Reactions To Powers <D-Header>
CREATING CHARACTERS <A-Header>
CREATING COP CHARACTERS <B-Header>
EXISTING SKILLS, TALENTS, PERKS AND DISADS <C-Header>
Police Powers <D-Header>
NEW SKILLS, TALENTS, PERKS AND DISADS <C-Header>
Limited Police Powers <D-Header>
Speed Estimation <D-Header>
COP PACKAGE DEALS <B-Header>
LAW ENFORCEMENT NPCS <B-Header>
POLICE PROCEDURES (ROLEPLAYING?) <A-Header>
TRAINING <B-Header>
THE ACADEMY (Min. Requirements) <C-Header>
ADVANCED OFFICER TRAINING (AOT) <C-Header>
SPECIAL TRAINING <C-Header>
CALLS FOR SERVICE <B-Header>
THE 911/COMMUNICATIONS CENTER <C-Header>
DISPATCHING <C-Header>
Channels <D-Header>
Repeaters <D-Header>
Radio Codes <D-Header>
Cop Jargon <D-Header>
RESPONDING TO THE CALL (Getting There) <C-Header>
AREA/CITY KNOWLEDGE <D-Header>
(COMBAT) DRIVING <D-Header>
MAKING CONTACT <B-Header>
ARRIVING AT THE SCENE <C-Header>
Observations <D-Header>
Securing the Scene/Handling the Crowd <D-Header>
Identifying Witnesses & Suspects <D-Header>
Interviewing Witnesses <D-Header>
OFFICER SAFETY <C-Header>
CHASING THE BAD GUY <C-Header>
HOT PURSUIT <D-Header>
VEHICLE PURSUITS <D-Header>
FOOT PURSUITS <D-Header>
USE OF FORCE <C-Header>
Levels of Force <D-Header>
When To USe It <D-Header>
Accountability <D-Header>
INVESTIGATING CRIMES <B-Header>
TIPS FOR INVESTIGATORS <C-Header>
Arson <D-Header>
Homicide <D-Header>
Rape <D-Header>
Burglary <D-Header>
Auto Theft <D-Header>
Narcotics <D-Header>
Explosives <D-Header>
CONDUCTING STAKE-OUTS <C-Header>
UNDERCOVER OPERATIONS <C-Header>
CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS/CONTACTS <C-Header>
MAKING THE ARREST <B-Header>
PROBABLE CAUSE <C-Header>
APPREHENDING THE SUSPECT <C-Header>
SEARCHES <C-Header>
Pat-down <D-Header>
Officer Safety <E-Header>
Thorough Search <D-Header>
Incident to Arrest <E-Header>
Exigent Circumstances <E-Header>
Complete/Cavity Search <D-Header>
Opposite Sexes <D-Header>
USE OF FORCE <C-Header>
LEVELS OF ARREST <C-Header>
Citation <D-Header>
Cite and Release <D-Header>
Cuff 'em and Stuff 'em <D-Header>
MIRANADA/RIGHTS ADVISEMENT <C-Header>
When is it Required? <D-Header>
TRANSPORTING THE PRISONER <C-Header>
INTERROGATION AND QUESTIONING <C-Header>
Handling Juveniles <D-Header>
BOOKING THE PRISONER <B-Header>
ENTERING THE JAIL <C-Header>
THE BOOKING PROCEDURE <C-Header>
CLASSIFICATION <C-Header>
ACCOMODATIONS <C-Header>
JAILHOUSE RULES <C-Header>
TRUSTEES <C-Header>
RELEASE <C-Header>
THE COURTS <B-Header>
COURT SECURITY <C-Header>
ESCORTS <C-Header>
BAILIFFS <C-Header>
PUBLIC RELATIONS <B-Header>
ORGANIZATION OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY <A-Header>
DEPARTMENTAL STRUCTURE <B-Header>
DIVISIONS <C-Header>
BUREAUS <C-Header>
DETAILS <C-Header>
CHAIN OF COMMAND <B-Header>
RANK STRUCTURE <C-Header>
SECTIONS <B-Header>
STAFF <C-Header>
Administration <D-Header>
Internal Affairs <D-Header>
Media Affairs <D-Header>
Community Resources/Public Relations <D-Header>
PATROL <C-Header>
Vehicle Patrol <D-Header>
Aero Detail <D-Header>
Traffic Enforcement <D-Header>
Mounted/Horse Patrol <D-Header>
Crowd/Riot Control <D-Header>
Canine (K-9) <D-Header>
Crime Prevention <D-Header>
Neighborhood Watch <E-Header>
D.A.R.E. <E-Header>
TECHNICAL <C-Header>
Identification <D-Header>
Media <D-Header>
INVESTIGATIONS <C-Header>
Homicide <D-Header>
Missing Persons <D-Header>
Burglary <D-Header>
Assault <D-Header>
Robbery <D-Header>
Sex Abuse/Rape <D-Header>
Theft <D-Header>
Fraud <D-Header>
Vice <D-Header>
Prostitution <D-Header>
Gambling <D-Header>
Narcotics <D-Header>
Organized Crime <D-Header>
Gang Suppression <D-Header>
TASK FORCES <C-Header>
Inter-agency Operations <D-Header>
FICTIONAL SECTIONS <C-Header>
Special Violence Task Force <D-Header>
Paranormal Alert Response Team (PART) <D-Header>
Special Crimes Unit <D-Header>
SAMPLE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES <B-Header>
NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
HUDSON CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
STEWART COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
TOOLS OF THE TRADE <A-Header>
PERSONAL EQUIPMENT <B-Header>
THE UNIFORM <C-Header>
SAFETY EQUIPMENT <C-Header>
Handgun <D-Header>
Ammunition <D-Header>
Handcuffs
Keys <D-Header>
Flashlight <D-Header>
Mace <D-Header>
Oleoresin Capsicum (O.C.) <D-Header>
Baton/PR-24 <D-Header>
Gloves <D-Header>
Portable Radio <D-Header>
Whistle <D-Header>
MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT <C-Header>
First Aid Kit <D-Header>
Traffic Accident Investigation Kit <D-Header>
Flares <D-Header>
Report Forms <D-Header>
Citations <D-Header>
Cellular Phone <D-Header>
Toys <D-Header>
Pager <D-Header>
EQUIPMENT LIST (Organized by Era/Genre) <C-Header>
WEAPONS LIST (Organizaed by Era/Genre) <C-Header>
VEHICLE EQUIPMENT <B-Header>
MOBILE RADIO <C-Header>
LIGHT BAR <C-Header>
SIREN/P.A. <C-Header>
PUSH-BARS <C-Header>
SAFETY CAGE <C-Header>
SHOTGUN RACK <C-Header>
POLICE VEHICLES <B-Header>
THE ROARING TWENTIES <C-Header>
Police Car <D-Header>
Motorcycle <D-Header>
GOLDEN AGE VEHICLES <C-Header>
Police Car <D-Header>
Motorcycle <D-Header>
MODERN VEHICLES <C-Header>
1980 Ford Ltd. <D-Header>
1990 Mustang Pursuit Car <D-Header>
1994 Chevy Caprice Patrol Car <D-Header>
1997 Ford Crown Victoria Patrol Car <D-Header>
1990 Chevy Blazer <D-Header>
1992 Kawasaki Police 1000 <D-Header>
Police Helicopter <D-Header>
Spotter Plane <D-Header>
Outboard Police Boat <D-Header>
Crime Scene Investigation Unit <D-Header>
Tactical Unit Van <D-Header>
Unmarked Police Car <D-Header>
FUTURISTIC VEHICLES <C-Header>
Hovercar <D-Header>
Air Assault Vehicle <D-Header>
STREET CRIMES <A-Header>
CRIMES BY TYPE <B-Header>
INFRACTIONS <C-Header>
MISDEMEANORS <C-Header>
FELONIES <C-Header>
CRIMES DEFINED <B-Header>
CRIMES AGAINST PEOPLE <C-Header>
Assault <D-Header>
Battery <D-Header>
Robbery <D-Header>
Mayhem <D-Header>
Rape <D-Header>
Sexual Assault <D-Header>
Fraud <D-Header>
Peace Disturbance <D-Header>
A WORD ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE <C-Header>
CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY <C-Header>
Theft <D-Header>
Petty Theft <E-Header>
Grand Theft <E-Header>
Burglary <D-Header>
Vandalism <D-Header>
Graffiti <D-Header>
VICTIMLESS CRIMES <C-Header>
Prostitution <D-Header>
Gambling <D-Header>
Mentally Ill <D-Header>
Transients <D-Header>
Panhandlers <D-Header>
Public Disturbances <D-Header>
SAMPLE CRIMINAL CODES <B-Header>
STATE PENAL CODES <C-Header>
STEWART COUNTY ORDINANCES <C-Header>
HUDSON CITY CODES <C-Header>
GANGS <A-Header>
WHITE GANGS <B-Header>
Origins <C-Header>
Organizations <C-Header>
Identifiers <C-Header>
Activities <C-Header>
BLACK GANGS <B-Header>
Origins <C-Header>
Organizations <C-Header>
Identifiers <C-Header>
Activities <C-Header>
HISPANIC GANGS <B-Header>
Origins <C-Header>
Organizations <C-Header>
Identifiers <C-Header>
Activities <C-Header>
ASIAN GANGS <B-Header>
Origins <C-Header>
Organizations <C-Header>
Identifiers <C-Header>
Activities <C-Header>
MOST WANTED (NPC Criminals) <A-Header>
SERIAL KILLER <C-Header>
STRONGARM ROBBERY <C-Header>
GANG MEMBER <C-Header>
GANG ASSOCIATE <C-Header>
CAR THIEF <C-Header>
MAD BOMBER <C-Header>
PSYCHO KILLER <C-Header>
WIFE-BEATER <C-Header>
DRUG DEALER <C-Header>
PROSTITUTE <C-Header>
ARSONIST <C-Header>
TERRORIST <C-Header>
TAGGER <C-Header>
AGENCIES <A-Header>
LOCAL AGENCIES <B-Header>
CITY POLICE <C-Header>
COUNTY SHERIFF'S <C-Header>
UNIVERSITY POLICE <C-Header>
AIRPORT POLICE <C-Header>
PARK RANGERS <C-Header>
STATE AGENCIES <B-Header>
HIGHWAY PATROL/DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY <C-Header>
STATE POLICE <C-Header>
CORRECTIONS <C-Header>
BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS <C-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE <C-Header>
FEDERAL AGENCIES <B-Header>
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS <C-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE <C-Header>
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms <D-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS <C-Header>
BORDER PATROL <C-Header>
MARSHALS OFFICE <C-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF FORRESTRY <C-Header>
CUSTOMS DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION <C-Header>
U.S. Coast Guard <D-Header>
POSTAL SERVICE <C-Header>
Postmaster General <D-Header>
Postal Inspections <D-Header>
TREASURY DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
Secret Service <D-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE <B-Header>
Department of Defense Police <C-Header>
MILITARY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES <B-Header>
U.S. NAVY <C-Header>
Master At Arms <D-Header>
Shore Patrol <D-Header>
U.S. MARINE CORPS <C-Header>
Military Police <D-Header>
Security Forces <D-Header>
Port Security <D-Header>
U.S. ARMY <C-Header>
Military Police <D-Header>
Criminal Investigations Division <D-Header>
U.S. AIR FORCE <C-Header>
Security Police <D-Header>
Law Enforcement Specialists <E-Header>
Security Specialists <E-Header>
Security Police Investigations <E-Header>
Office of Special Investigations (OSI) <D-Header>
INTERNATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES <B-Header>
INTERPOL <C-Header>
FOREIGN AGENCIES <C-Header>
Royal Canadian Mounted Police <D-Header>
Japanese National Police Force <D-Header>
German Polizei <D-Header>
London Metropolitan Police <D-Header>
FICTIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES <B-Header>
BUREAU OF PARANORMAL INVESTIGATIONS <C-Header>
DEPARTMENT OF PARANORMAL REGULATION <C-Header>
U.S. MARHALS PARANORMAL FUGITIVE DIVISION <C-Header>
OTHER SERVICES <B-Header>
FIRE DEPARTMENT <C-Header>
PARAMEDICS <C-Header>
AMBULANCE/EMTS <C-Header>
APPENDICES <A-Header>
GLOSSARY OF POLICE AND RELATED TERMS <B-Header>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:43:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here's a bit of short fiction I currently have in the intro section.
Dopesn't necessarily mean it's going to stay there in its current form, or
even at all. To be honest, I haven't even looked at it for about a year. But
it's something else from the book. Enjoy. ;)
Mark @ GRG
===============================================
Paul took a sip of his coffee and looked through the windshield at the city
street. Snow flakes drifted downward, leaving a thin white blanket on the
ground, covering the dirt and grime. Paul reflected on the beauty of the
virgin snow, a beauty that would last only a few hours. Soon, he thought, the
silky white cloak would give way to the footsteps and tires, turning the
streets dark again. Still, he thought, it was pretty while it lasted.
The yellow strobe light of a passing city manintenance truck cast an amber
glow on the snow-covered street. "Don't eat it" he thought, chuckling to
himself. He glanced down at the radio as it crackled another message.
"Forty-one David," came the South area dispatcher's voice over the speaker,
"audible alarm, 6241 Heine." Another burglary alarm, Paul thought. That was
the fourth audible alarm call he'd heard this shift. Winter always brought
about a higher number of audible alarm calls, mostly because of the cold
winds.
"What a way to spend Christmas eve," Paul said aloud to the syrofoam cup he
held. "Driving around in a stinking squad car chasing false alarms." It could
be worse, he thought. He could be working in Fall's Point.
Paul reflected back on his days as a rookie and the hard lessons he'd learned
on these Hudson City streets. Then he thought about the three weeks he was off
work, collecting city disability while ecoverig from a gunshot wound he'd
sustained during a routine traffic stop.
"Routine. Hah," Paul muttered. Very little about this job was routine, except
perhaps the danger and lack of public appreciation. Still, work is good, he
thought. Four 10-hour shifts a week with three days off, regular meal breaks
barring some really hot call, and decent pay. Not tremendous pay, mind you,
but decent pay. And security. There was always job security, because the bad
guys would always be there.
Of course, so would garbage. Paul thought a moment about the fact that city
sanitation workers earned more than he did. Paul shrugged his shoulders. They
don't get to carry guns, he thought sarcastically. Hell, they also don't get
shot at. Well, not often.
Paul adjusted the metal report case in his lap and finished writing the short
synopsis of his last call for the shift log.
2354 Hours: Arrival. Domestic violence. Husband arrested/Battery. Wife
arrested/ADW (assault with a deadly weapon). Both subjects transported to
Stewart County Jail. See report #94-15867.
That didn't nearly tell the story, Paul thought.
* * * * * *
As he approached the house Paul could see various 40-ouncers littering the
yard. He could also hear two people fighting; a man and a woman. The man was
screaming something about kicking portions of her anatomy better left behind,
so to speak. The
woman was screaming obscenities relating to the man's ability to "perform," so
to speak. They must be married, Paul thought to himself.
As Paul neared the front door he could hear the woman screaming about a "close
personal relationship" she had had with the man's best friend, due in large
part to the man's inability to engage in close personal relationships, which
she so desperately craved.
Paul didn't thoroughly explore the ramifications of such a statement, but
apparently the husband had. Just as Paul reached the front door, the woman's
face impacted sharply against the man's fist. The outcome was predictable. Her
face lost. Blood went everywhere as her nose flattened out, and she made a
limp dive for the ground, backwards at that.
Paul kicked open the door and announced his presence.
"Police officer! Get on the floor, NOW!" Paul noticed that the man had all of
the stereotypical characteristics of a drunk spouse abuser; matted hair, a
five o'clock shadow, beer-stained T-sirt, and holey blue jeans. The man
ignored Paul's instructions and began yelling at him instead.
"Shcrew her," he slurred. "The witch got what she desherves. I should'a never
married her, the good fer nothin' skank." Then the man made a vain attempt to
spit on the woman, the saliva instead dribbling down his chin. The man then
began yelling at Paul, but the words were like an unitelligible string of
sounds. Paul learned to tune out the ramblings of drunks. All Paul caught were
a few words here and there. Something about paying rent and tenant rights, or
some such nonsense.
The man was obviously unimpressed with Paul's official demeanor and
authoritative voice, so Paul decided to convince the man of his resolve. He
drew his PR-24 and again instructed the man to assume a position on the floor
similar to his wife.
Suddenly the man made an assumption in the recesses of his inebriated brain;
if he could knock out his old lady, then he could knock out this pain-in-the-
ass cop, too. He was wrong, but he didn't find out until it was too late.
The man's facial expression suddenly changed, signalling Paul that things were
about to get interesting. The man lunged, but Paul, the only one of the pair
not feeling the effects of a few 40-ouncers, side stepped. The man was
staggering past Paul, surprised and off balance. In a quick, fluid motion,
Paul swung the baton... hard. It landed with a "whoomf!" in the man's stomach.
He doubled over and began screaming about Paul's relations with his mother.
"Get on the floor, man!" Paul yelled. "This isn't a damned game! Now DO IT!
Get on the floor and spread your arms out!"
Then all of a sudden, as if inspired to attempt the same stupid maneuver
again, he started to turn toward Paul. All the while the man was uttering a
deep, primal growl that often manifests after a few 40-ouncers and an
encounter with a uniformed authority figure. Paul was ready, however, and
bounced the baton off of the man's shin with a loud "prang!" More screaming
and yelling ensued, but the man was more concerned with his wounded body parts
than with fighting.
As soon as he saw that the fight was out of the man, Paul rolled him over, put
him in a departmentally-approved wrist lock and handcuffed him. As he stood
the man up, however, he saw the woman standing in a nearby doorway... with a
12 inch kitchen knife in her hand!
"You're not takin' my man!" she yelled, and she lunged forward. For a fleeting
moment Paul contemplated hiding behind "her man," but instead he threw the man
to the floor and drew his PR-24. The woman slashed at Paul, but he managed to
narrowly avoid the attack. The woman was not as lucky. As she was off-balance,
Paul brought the baton down hard on the back of her hand. She screamed
out loud, but she also dropped the knife. In short order Paul had the woman
restrained and put his second set of 'cuffs to good use.
Only then did Paul hear the sirens. Within moments, four patrol cars pulled up
in front of the house. Officers ran toward the front door, dodging various
bottles and cans that littered the yard. "Are you okay?" one of them asked.
"Yeah, why?" Paul asked between heavy breaths.
"Dispatch's been calling you for the last ten minutes. We thought you got
hurt."
"Oh, crap," Paul had said. "I must have forgotten to turn my portable on."
Another typical call, Paul thought. Yeah, right.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
To: GoldRushG@aol.com (GoldRushG)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: rholding@ActOnline.com.au, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> This is a very old net hoax. There is no such virus, nor has there ever
> been, and doubtful ever will be. A virus simply cannot be transmitted by an
> ASCII text message (aka e-mail). Now, an attached file *could* carry a virus
> (or *be* a virus). But simply opening e-mail does nothing.
Actually, this depends upon your email software, and your browser.
It's is quite easy to build a piece of Java code into an email that will crash
a PC running a browser and reading email through that browser. It can be
as simple as setting up a continuous loop to keep opening new browser windows.
Done at the right moment (which can be acheived by calling up the right
other stuff through Java) this will at least ruin your browser.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:05:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: CLOWN
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
---David B Stallard wrote:
>
> Message text written by John and Ron Prins
> >Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea
of a
> guy
> who chases whomever is currently 'it'.<
>
> Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people
on this
> list hate them?
A lot of the more, um, "serious gamers", think that CLOWN is an insult
the genre. Personally, I think they're a hoot - but I've only
actually used them once in a campaign.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Cc: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> rholding@ActOnline.com.au,
champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Brian Wong writes:
> > This is a very old net hoax. There is no such virus, nor has there ever
> > been, and doubtful ever will be. A virus simply cannot be transmitted by
> > an ASCII text message (aka e-mail). Now, an attached file *could* carry
> > a virus (or *be* a virus). But simply opening e-mail does nothing.
>
> Actually, this depends upon your email software, and your browser.
<stuff about java deleted>
Aiii.....this old hoax could gain new strength! Btw, there actually _is_ a
virus -- the email itself it a virus. It spreads by being remailed by people
who don't recognize it as a hoax. However, it doesn't do anything except put
spam in your mailbox ;)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:21:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, William K Bushway wrote:
> Sorry, what I was trying to say was that the -1/2 Limitation: only
> one power at a time, should be applied to the powers themselves, not the
> whole multipower. My reasoning is this;
<snip> Ah, that makes sense. Hadn't really thought of it that way. I'm
not completely sure it shouldn't be applied to the entire power, because
there are several combinations of powers where they 'could' be used
together - but then again the partially limited pool should take care of
that. The limit is going to be vanishingly small when applied to the
slots anyway...
<Limit Break snip>
> That makes sense, because in III, each character did possess a
> kind of Limit Break that activated when their health level was critical.
The FF3 'desperation attacks' I'd do a different way...I'd just put a
'Limited Power' on it, only when BODY/Stun is at 10% or less. That'd
probably be a fairly large one. I might also think of it as NCC, since
the GM decides when they can do it, not the player. There was only a
chance that the person would use it, if I remember right - it wasn't a
certainty.
The whole combat/'death' thing is going to have to work a bit different in
HERO - I'm not entirely sure what exactly I'm going to do, because people
die and get ressurrected with frightenting regularity in combat, but when
people actually /die/ they die permanently - there are examples in both
III and 7 which I won't go into cos they're spoilers - and no amount of
Phoenix Down or Life2 or magicite/materia is going to save them.
I think that 'death' in FF combat is more being knocked out, possibly to
the GMO level, and actual death is a much rarer occasion. That's probably
how I'll handle it for the game.
> > Materia would be a bit more difficult, but I didn't care for the materia
> > system, because it left the characters too undifferentiated.
>
> Me either, but it was the logical outgrowth of III's Espers. I
> still think II was the best FF released in the U.S.
<rant on> The thing that bugged me most about the materia was that the
characters weren't learning the magic and getting more powerful - the
rocks were. In FF3 with the Magicite, your character would learn the
spells...in FF7, you have 'magic rocks' that cast spells. You don't learn
how to steal stuff - your rock does. Bah. Bah bah bah. It greatly lessens
the whole 'improving the characters' aspect of things. <rant off>
(Plus, Materia would be a bitch to handle in HERO, what with all the
players trading it around all the time...)
On the other hand, I liked the idea of the Espers in FFIII teaching you
magic, and you being able to summon them (briefly) to help you. It's all
in how you look at it.
> > The plot and world, however, are my own (except for the 'classic bits' -
> > an airship, Chocobos, a guy named Cid...)
>
> Square's explanation for the dis-connectedness of the Final
> Fantasy installments is that each game is the "Final Fantasy", the last
> great epic story, of that world. Running your own setting is actually
> perfectly consistant with that ideal.
Ah...I hadn't heard that, but it certainly makes sense. Not that I was
going to let myself be stopped anyway.
The campaign didn't actually start out as Final Fantasy...I just wanted
one that had the same kind of console RPG 'feel' to the world...but it
kept getting closer and closer and finally I said 'ta heck with it, it's
FF HERO' and went all-out.
J, writing stats for Chocobos.
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-10.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-10.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.140
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:26:05 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA06182
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Cory Conrad
>Currently we have all our artists wrapped up in the various comics we
are producing for the Fuzion game system (Currently FTR: Federal
Tactical Response, Flat Black, Revenant, and Night's Edge). That and
there is the Cold Fuzion print magazine which is in the works.<
Comics? Are these "normal" comics that will sit next to Marvel and DC on
the shelf, or inserts that come with future game books, or something else?
>So when we get a chance we will have honest-to-goodness comic artists
working on cardboard miniatures.<
Sounds great! Would this be something that you submit to Hero or GRG for
publication, or a generic supplement that would be published for anyone to
use (sorta like those generic "traps" and "dungeons" books that are out
there)?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: CLOWN
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:49:02 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
When I started my latest campaign, I asked the players what types things
they would like to see. CLOWN was specifically requested....
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David B Stallard [SMTP:DBStallard@compuserve.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 11:12 AM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: [unknown]
> Subject: CLOWN
>
> Message text written by John and Ron Prins
> >Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a
> guy
> who chases whomever is currently 'it'.<
>
> Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people on this
> list hate them?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mason2.gmu.edu from wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu server @mason2.gmu.edu ip 129.174.1.11
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:29:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
X-Sender: wbushway@mason2.gmu.edu
To: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Sakura wrote:
> I think that 'death' in FF combat is more being knocked out, possibly to
> the GMO level, and actual death is a much rarer occasion. That's probably
> how I'll handle it for the game.
Ah, the old "Swoon" dilemma. I'd probably model the Life spells
as a transform that raises the character's BODY and STUN to zero, linked
to an Aid. The trick is making the players aware which are "story"
deaths, and which aren't.
> On the other hand, I liked the idea of the Espers in FFIII teaching you
> magic, and you being able to summon them (briefly) to help you. It's all
> in how you look at it.
Yeah. Still, I lied the quests from 2 where you had to convince
the monster to help you, before you could summon them.
> J, writing stats for Chocobos.
Just remember, Chocobos are invincible (unless you're playing
Tactics). In 2&3, you never even have a chance to attempt to kill a
Chocobo. In 7, I defy to attempt to kill them. I spent a half hour
repeating the Knights of the Round/Mime/2x Summon combo, only to have the
slightly miffed chocobo peck each of my characters, and run away.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium. All anime means is
animation that comes from Japan. Other than that, there are no conventions
to follow; not even wide-eyed women.
Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or "Poetry HERO".
Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl, supernatural fu,
romance, space opera, etc.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:41:59 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: CLOWN
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>Message text written by John and Ron Prins
>>Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a
>>guy who chases whomever is currently 'it'.
>
>Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people on this
>list hate them?
They're annoying. I know, they're 'supposed' to be annoying, but getting
humilated is seldom the PC's idea of a good time, and that's what CLOWN is
there to do - humiliate heroes. And some of them belong in more serious
villian organizations - like April Foolkiller and Tag.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo teleute.com from naneiden@iswest.com server @alex-va-n002c091.moon.jic.com ip 206.156.21.101
X-Sender: empulse@usa.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:02:43 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:41 PM 4/16/98 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
>
>Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium. All anime means is
>animation that comes from Japan. Other than that, there are no conventions
>to follow; not even wide-eyed women.
>
I think you're being a little to literal and way to critical.
There has often been discussion about bringing certain aspects of popular
Anime into genre works for Hero. Michael Surbrook's Kazi Five is a good
example of combining cyberpunk, psionics, etc... into a game world that can
easily be recognized as having its roots in Akira, Appleseed, Ghost in the
Shell and Bubble Gum Crisis.
>Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or "Poetry HERO".
>Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl, supernatural fu,
>romance, space opera, etc.)
>
This is what I feel is uncalled for. You can certainly argue the definition
of Genre and Medium, but there is absolutely no evidence that Puma seeks to
have a slew of genre books produced for things that are clearly not a
genre. While his initial comment was not the most articulate, I think its
clear that what he'd like to see is Hero System supplements that bring
aspects of Anime into the RPG forum.
-Nic
+-------------------------------------------------+
| naneiden@iswest.com |
| http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/ |
| "Kame...hame..ha!" - Goku, Gohan & Goten |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > I suppose it would, for that one small region of asia. But it would be
> >regretable if it falls down to an anime crutch. ANIME HERO is the place for
> >that.
>
> Although many of the characters (powers and some background ideas) are
> anime inspired, the characters are being written in such a manner as to be
> a part of a relatively reasonable campaign setting. Thus, would you mind
> elaborating on the above?
>
Simple. Even Japan is about more than cartoons.
Hopefully the individual living there currently who's working with you is
aware of this. I've met westerners when I lived in asia who weren't. I'd
like to see such a book cover much more of the society and it's relations to
it's neighbors (which are generally hostile), as well as it's own internal
conflicts and successes. Most of which have nothing to do with cartoons.
Post WWII radiation and Japanese mythology are both ripe with
opportunities for supers. As well as martial artists who fled China when
martial arts were banned there after the communist take over. Though most
of those went elsewhere. The whole ninja mythology could be exploited, not
that that hasn't been done to death though.
Japans problems in the sex slave trade make ripe topics for Dark
Champions. As does the Yakuza.
None of this is cartoon.
Also, presenting the society, it's values, religion, and politics without
resorting to basing it off of the latest japanese cartoon, but off of an
actual examination fo what those things are.
That's more or less what I'm getting at, only I'm out of time and will
have to follow this up more later.
> BTW, it is not necessary to send to me and the Champions Mailing list, as
> I am a subscriber.
>
Well, I'm not going to manually edit all these things, so it's group
reply as the option now that they took out the all too sensible option of
having the reply-to in there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo central.worldweb.net from dfair@pop.worldweb.net server @central.worldweb.net ip 204.117.218.31
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:08:05 -0400
x-sender: dfair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <dfair@sdslink.com>
To: "Hero Games" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On 4/16/98 1:43 PM GoldRushG (GoldRushG@aol.com) Said:
> Here's a bit of short fiction I currently have in the intro section.
>Dopesn't necessarily mean it's going to stay there in its current form, or
>even at all. To be honest, I haven't even looked at it for about a year. But
>it's something else from the book. Enjoy. ;)
>
Thank you for posting this, I for one found it enjoyable and worthwhile
(and a welcome respite at that).
David A. Fair |
SDS International | Think Different
dfair@sdslink.com |
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: CLOWN
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:12:43 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>When I started my latest campaign, I asked the players what types
things
>they would like to see. CLOWN was specifically requested....
>Jason Goode
<pumaese>
Puma, personally, would get urge for KILL all members of CLOWN! ^_^;
<\pumaese>
Seriously, they are so obnoxious, they'd get on my nerves real quick!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:34:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
> Hero Games people said there was "No Market" for it and
> "Anime doesn't even deserve a sourcebook since it isn't
> a specific genre." Lots people complained, but they no listen!
> Anyone out there disagree?
> Gold Rush Games listening?
> Puma could contribute much for it yes!
Considering the existence of Fuzion's Animechanics, I think _someone_ out
there believes that there's a market for Anime. I'm _not_ so sure that a
single sourcebook could do it justice, though...
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from dangerthorn@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharky Dangerthorn <dangerthorn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
To: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au&>
champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
FYI to any others on the list that don't know: This is a hoax. You
can get info on this and other hoaxes at:
http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html
---Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> wrote:
>
> -- Just passing this along from a friend.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
> Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
> -----------------------------------------------------------
==
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland/Salem, OR, USA
a.k.a. Sharky Dangerthorn, Midget, Hey You!
Nicks on DALnet (IRC): Da_Midge Game_Knight
Castle Game Knight: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.aircyber.net/~jd/coh
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo19.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo19.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.41
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:56:17 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here is some equipment I wrote up sometime back. These are not final stats,
to be sure. These are merely transcribed from my notes. Some of the point
totals may be off, too (they haven't been rechecked).
Mark @GRG
===========================
RADAR "SPEED" GUN
Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF Speedgun,
Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest vehicle
(-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
"FLASH-BANG" GRENADE
Flash vs Sight Group 1D6, AE: 2" Rad., OAF Grenade, 1 Charge, Indirect (+1/4),
Linked to:
2D6 NND (Defense is Force Field or Proof vs Sonics), AE: 2" Rad., OAF Grenade,
1 Charge, Indirect (+1/4)
AP: 100 Real Cost: 24 Price: $45
RIOT SHIELD
Armor +5rPD/+5rED, +2 DCV, OAF Shield, Act 14-
AP: 31 Real Cost: 12 Price: $400
BALLISTIC VEST (Level I/II)
Armor +5rPD/+5rED, Act 9- (or Locations 11-13), OIF Vest, 1/2 Def vs Blades
AP: 15 Real Cost: 4 Price: $450
TRAUMA PLATE (added to vest)
Armor +5rPD/+5rED, Act 8- (or Locations 10-11), OIF Trauma Plate
AP: 15 Real Cost: 4 Price: $100
ASSAULT/RAID VEST
Armor +7rPD/+7rED, Act 9- (or Locations 11-13), OIF Assault Vest, 1/2 Def vs
Blades
AP: 21 Real Cost: 6 Price: $600
BOMB/EOD SUIT
Armor +14rPD/+14rED, OIF Bombsuit, Bulky (1/2 DCV, No NC Movement)
AP: 42 Real Cost: 14 Price: $5,000
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:56:20 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: (L&O) Holsters
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here are some of the holsters with applicable modifiers based on the type.
I'll say up front that this is all intended to be *optional* stuff for people
wanting this level of detail. It obviously is going to work better in Heroic-
level games than Superheroic ones. ;) These are also straight from my notes,
so the stats are subject to change.
Mark @ GRG
=================================
TYPE: Type of holster (will be better explained in the book; I'll be happy to
answer questions here about it).
GRAB: This is the modifier to the *attacker's* OCV when trying to Grab the
weapon in the holster.
STR: This is the modifiers to the *defender's* STR when trying to retain the
weapon from being grabbed out of the hoster. Only used if the Grab is
successful.
FD: This is the modifier to the Fast Draw roll when the wearer attempts to
fast draw the weapon from this type of holster.
COST: The approximate/avg monetary cost of the holster (it may be issued)
The following are all assumed to be leather holsters.
TYPE | GRAB | STR | FD | COST
Std Top Draw | +0 | +5 | +0 | $90
Front Break | -1 | +10 | +1 | $110
Security II | -1 | +10 | +0 | $100
Security III | -2 | +15 | -1 | $120
Strapless | +1 | +0 | +1 | $60
Shoulder | -1 | +5 | +0 | $90
Ankle | -2 | +5 | -2 | $60
Waistband | +0 | +5 | +0 | $70
The following numbers reflect the same style of holster but made of nylon:
TYPE | GRAB | STR | FD | COST
Std Top Draw | +0 | +0 | +1 | $45
Security II | -1 | +5 | +1 | $50
Strapless | +1 | +0 | +2 | $30
Shoulder | -1 | +0 | +1 | $50
Ankle | -2 | +0 | -1 | $30
Waistband | +0 | +0 | +1 | $40
And there you have it. A detailed representation (but by no means the ONLY
way to handle these nor a mandatory-use rule! <LOL>).
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:56:23 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: (L&O) Interpol
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here are few tidbits of info about Interpol, for folks who want to use them
in their camapign (any campaign):
FUNDING
Interpol operates on "budget units" (BU), which are paid by each member
nation (a "budget unit" was worth 4,850 Swiss Francs in 1976). Since 1956,
each nation decides how many BUs it will contribute when it joins Interpol.
Prior to 1956, contributions were based on the member nation's population.
ORGANIZATION
Interpol is made up of four groups which coordinate and direct the
organization: the General Assembly (GA), Executive Committee (EC), General
Secretariat (GS) and the National Central Bureaus (NCB).
The GA and EC are made up of representatives of each member nation. The GA
is the supreme authority, and it also elects the EC, which includes 13 members
(a President, 3 Vice Presidents and 9 delegates). The EC meets twice a year
(ordinarily).
The GS and NCBs run the day-to-day ops of Interpol. They are the "permanent
and visible" elements. An NCB is one designated agency from a member nation
which acts as the official law enforcement liaison between that nation and
Interpol.
MEMBERSHIP
By 1975, there were 120 member nations, each maintaining its own NCB. NCBs
include:
Argentina (?)
Australia (Melbourne City Police)
Belegium (Palais de Justice)
Canada (RCMP)
Columbia (?; Bogata)
Egypt (?)
France (Suete')
(W) Germany (Bundeskriminalamt)
Hong Kong (May House, Police HQ; Arsenal St.)
Italy (Questore)
Japan (National Police; Tokyo)
Lebanon (?)
Malaysia (?)
Mexico (?)
Norway (Oslo Police - Interpol)
Philipines (?; Manila)
Spain (Comisaria General de Investigacion Criminal)
Sweden (Interpol Sektionen, Rikspolisstyrelson; Stockholm)
Switzerland (Bureau Central Swiss)
Thailand (Bangkok Police, Foreign Affairs Div.)
UK (Scotland Yard; London)
USA (Dept of the Treasury; Washington, D.C.)
Venezuela (Cuerpo Technico de Policia Judicial O.C.N.; Caracs)
OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
The official languages of Interpol are English, French and Spanish. All
internationally distributed documents (such as bulletins and notices) are
printed in these three languages.
NOTICES
Official notices (including notifications of international criminals being
in a certain area/country and requests to apprehend them) are published in the
three languages listed above. They are color coded (with a colored border) to
indicate the notice's purpose or intent.
Red: Arrest for extradition
Green: Warning notice
Blue: Requests for additional information about a suspect
Black: Used to establish identity of a corpse
RESTRICTIONS
Interpol is forbidden from becoming involved in military, political,
religious or racial activities. The international officers from one country
occasionally operate within another country as "advisors," and must adhere to
the laws of the country they are in, in regards to arrest, search and seizure,
etc. It's the repsonsibility of each member nation's NCB to "take up the
chase" that Interpol begins.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>>Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
>>
>>Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium. All anime means is
>>animation that comes from Japan. Other than that, there are no conventions
>>to follow; not even wide-eyed women.
>
>I think you're being a little to literal and way to critical.
>
>There has often been discussion about bringing certain aspects of popular
>Anime into genre works for Hero. Michael Surbrook's Kazi Five is a good
>example of combining cyberpunk, psionics, etc... into a game world that can
>easily be recognized as having its roots in Akira, Appleseed, Ghost in the
>Shell and Bubble Gum Crisis.
Yes, a _genre_ of anime Michael calls "Cyberpunk Anime". I know, I helped
him with the definition.
>>Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or "Poetry HERO".
>>Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl, supernatural fu,
>>romance, space opera, etc.)
>This is what I feel is uncalled for. You can certainly argue the definition
>of Genre and Medium, but there is absolutely no evidence that Puma seeks to
>have a slew of genre books produced for things that are clearly not a
>genre.
Sigh. That was sarcasm.
>While his initial comment was not the most articulate, I think its
>clear that what he'd like to see is Hero System supplements that bring
>aspects of Anime into the RPG forum.
>
>-Nic
No, it's not clear. He said he wants a book called "Anime HERO". Which is
about as clear as mud. Anime is just cartoons from Japan. It has as few
boundaries on its subject matter and style as american television does (in
fact, probably fewer boundaries).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:07:46 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Gold Rush Games listening? >>
Certainly.
<< Puma could contribute much for it yes!>>
That depends. Is this indicative of your typical writing style?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:09:03 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< The whole ninja mythology could be exploited, not that that hasn't been
done to death though. >>
Not in a historical context it hasn't. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo newenglandpc.net from warren@newenglandpc.net server @209.188.41.226 ip 209.188.41.226
From: "Warren E Henderson III" <warren@newenglandpc.net>
To: "hero-l@sysabend.org" <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 21:21:56
Reply-To: "Warren E Henderson III" <warren@newenglandpc.net>
Subject: Re: The Official Word on PS
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:35:14 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Here is a transcript form a recent chat with Bruce Harlick about the whole
>PS "debate." While I assert that both viewpoints are equally valid, some
>people expressed an interest in hearing what Hero had to say about it. So,
>here you go. never say I don't love you guys and do stuff for you. ;)
>
> Mark @ GRG
>======================================
Thank you.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
GoldRushG writes:
> RADAR "SPEED" GUN
> Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF
> Speedgun, Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest
> vehicle (-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
> AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
Hm....strangely implemented and highly overpriced. For example, 'AE cone' is
quite unnecessary. Try 'detect discriminatory speed, ranged, telescopic +6',
OAF, easily confused (-1/4), 'active' sensor (-1/4?).
AP: 24. Real: 10.
>
> "FLASH-BANG" GRENADE
> Flash vs Sight Group 1D6, AE: 2" Rad., OAF Grenade, 1 Charge, Indirect
> (+1/4), Linked to:
> 2D6 NND (Defense is Force Field or Proof vs Sonics), AE: 2" Rad., OAF
> Grenade, 1 Charge, Indirect (+1/4)
> AP: 100 Real Cost: 24 Price: $45
Um...indirect? For that matter, the damage is overstated too. Try 'flash vs
sight and hearing 2d6, explosion, OAF, 1 charge' -- 60 active, 15 real. If you
really feel like making it do damage, add a 4d6 normal explosion (30/7).
>
> RIOT SHIELD
> Armor +5rPD/+5rED, +2 DCV, OAF Shield, Act 14-
> AP: 31 Real Cost: 12 Price: $400
You don't need both '+2 DCV' and 'activation 14-'. I'd probably go with '+5/+5
armor, OAF shield, not vs attacks which hit vs DCV+3(-1?)' for 15/5
>
> BALLISTIC VEST (Level I/II)
> Armor +5rPD/+5rED, Act 9- (or Locations 11-13), OIF Vest, 1/2 Def vs Blades
> AP: 15 Real Cost: 4 Price: $450
Kevlar isn't all that impressive against flame, nor against blunt trauma. I'd
write it up as '+5PD/+1ED damage resistance (half vs blades), +2 PD, +1 ED',
other limits as noted, for 6 active, 2 real.
>
> TRAUMA PLATE (added to vest)
> Armor +5rPD/+5rED, Act 8- (or Locations 10-11), OIF Trauma Plate
> AP: 15 Real Cost: 4 Price: $100
>
> ASSAULT/RAID VEST
> Armor +7rPD/+7rED, Act 9- (or Locations 11-13), OIF Assault Vest, 1/2 Def
> vs Blades
> AP: 21 Real Cost: 6 Price: $600
Same as for ballistic vest, but +2 to all numbers: +7/+3 damage resistance,
+4PD,+3ED. Active 12, real 4.
>
> BOMB/EOD SUIT
> Armor +14rPD/+14rED, OIF Bombsuit, Bulky (1/2 DCV, No NC Movement)
> AP: 42 Real Cost: 14 Price: $5,000
I'd probably go with +12PD/+8 ED.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:31:59 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
>Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium. All
anime means is
>animation that comes from Japan. Other than that, there are no
conventions
>to follow; not even wide-eyed women.
Well.... Anime tends have its own style for doing things.
>Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or
"Poetry HERO".
>Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl,
supernatural fu,
>romance, space opera, etc.)
Would expect see all those in "Anime Hero" book.
i.e., this is how do 'space opera' anime style, 'romance' anime
style, etc.
Some are anime-specific, like magical girl.
It would be really BIG sourcebook!
Maybe do several smaller ones.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>"Now, we get bigger guns."
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Kei and Yuri say that? ^_^;
>John D. Prins and Ron Prins
>jprins@interhop.net
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:35:14 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: The Official Word on PS
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here is a transcript form a recent chat with Bruce Harlick about the whole
PS "debate." While I assert that both viewpoints are equally valid, some
people expressed an interest in hearing what Hero had to say about it. So,
here you go. never say I don't love you guys and do stuff for you. ;)
Mark @ GRG
======================================
GoldRushG: Btw, I have a question (on behalf of the HML <G>).
BruceHH: Ask away...
GoldRushG: Does one require a related KS for complex jobs in addition to a PS?
Or does PS cover all job-related tasks regardless of any possible or existing
skills (e.g., PS: Mechanic and Mechanics)? Yes, it's a raging debate, and some
people [disagree with me] for thinking the former is true (KSs required for
complex jobs, where appropriate).
BruceHH: No. It is assumed that you can function professionally with the PS.
Having the KS may MAKE you a better mechanic, and certainly, for the game, you
can't make complex skill checks or anything like that without the proper skil,
if one exists (such as Mechanics). But you can MAKE A LIVING at the job if you
have the appropriate PS at 11 or less or greate.
GoldRushG: Hmm... so theoritically a cop could get by with just PS: Police
Officer? No need for other skills 'tall? Depends on the genre and level of
play, I know...
BruceHH: Yes, but he wouldn't be a great cop. Certainly not PC level. You
know, one of those guys who puts in his time, but isn't talented or
particularly skilled...
GoldRushG: Okay. Now, can the people on the HML take this as an "official
ruling?" (Keep in mind I plan to cut and paste this to the list). :) Be
careful how you word your reply... <LOL>
BruceHH: Sure. I'm as official as they come. Ooh, I can steal and adapt your
stuff for my Fuzion modern game... cool (re: recently posted Law & Order
stuff)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo teleute.com from naneiden@iswest.com server @alex-va-n002c091.moon.jic.com ip 206.156.21.101
X-Sender: empulse@usa.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:38:23 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:59 PM 4/16/98 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>
>
>No, it's not clear. He said he wants a book called "Anime HERO". Which is
>about as clear as mud. Anime is just cartoons from Japan. It has as few
>boundaries on its subject matter and style as american television does (in
>fact, probably fewer boundaries).
>
That's true.
A book called 'Anime Hero' would either be a misleading title, or would
just skim over the various genres most associate with Anime. Neither of
which would do the subject matter justice.
-Nic
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:42:53 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Hm....strangely implemented and highly overpriced. For example, 'AE cone'
is
quite unnecessary. >>
Oh, really? Hm. And here I thought I learned something in my Radar Operation
class put on by MPH Laboratories, makers of the most popular radar guns. :D
That'll show me!
<< 'active' sensor (-1/4?). >>
Active Sensor. Hm.
<< Um...indirect? >>
You can huck it over a wall or through a window can't you? ;)
<< For that matter, the damage is overstated too. Try 'flash vs sight and
hearing 2d6, explosion, >>
Yeah, I agree explosion is better than AE.
<< If you really feel like making it do damage, add a 4d6 normal explosion
(30/7).>>
But it does little real "damage" (i.e. Body), though it can catch things on
fire... :/
<< Kevlar isn't all that impressive against flame, nor against blunt trauma.
>>
Gosh. And that time I had a torch held to my torso I thought it protected
me. <LOL> Vests are great against blunt trauma. After all, kevlar dissipates
kinetic energy over an area larger than the impact point; that's how it
*works*. I can tell you that I have been hit by a baseball bat while wearing a
vest, and I'm sure as heck glad I had it on! Otherwise I'd have been out for
the count!
Some of your other suggestions I'll be taking a longer look at, however.
Thanks for the feedback.
Mark @ GRG
P.S. I'm totally serious about the torch incident.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:52:40 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
OK, Leafed through few supplements for few minutes last
night before Babylon 5 came on. Here's what was seen:
Allies:
Many male characters shown as sexist (females not).
Nazi type shown, no liberals shown as bad (i.e. Commie-man).
Mutant File:
Genocide all conservative types. Most liberals shown as good,
liking mutants. Most conservatives shown as bad, hating mutants.
Red Doom:
ONLY place Communism/Liberals shown as capable of being bad.
General:
International liberal (UN) groups (UNTIL) show as mostly good.
US patriotic (conservative) groups (Primus) shown in negative way.
Any religious person shown in negative way.
Please note that most religious and/or conservative people are
NOT evil/racist. Hard to tell that from these game books! ;_;
PS: This is all IMHO. Many will disagree.
PPS: Please note the .sig! ^_^;
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo shell.infinex.com from rook@shell.infinex.com server rook@shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
To: GoldRushG@aol.com (GoldRushG)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:25 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> << Puma could contribute much for it yes!>>
>
> That depends. Is this indicative of your typical writing style?
I think it's just that 'Puma' has decided to post 'in character' to
this mailing list; whereas the rest of us post 'out of character'. Trust me,
you don't want to see me write up my posts 'in character as Cosmo Lass'. :)
It'd confuse even me. :)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
GoldRushG writes:
> Oh, really? Hm. And here I thought I learned something in my Radar
> Operation
> class put on by MPH Laboratories, makers of the most popular radar guns. :D
> That'll show me!
It's unnecessary within the context of 'detect', since a ranged detect does
that kind of thing anyway. You don't need to buy area effect on spatial
awareness, now do you?
>
> You can huck it over a wall or through a window can't you? ;)
Hm...while true, this isn't exactly what the +1/4 level of indirect does.
>
> But it does little real "damage" (i.e. Body), though it can catch things
> on fire... :/
Which is why we make it 'normal' damage, possibly with reduced penetration.
>
> Gosh. And that time I had a torch held to my torso I thought it protected
> me. <LOL> Vests are great against blunt trauma. After all, kevlar
> dissipates kinetic energy over an area larger than the impact point;
> that's how it *works*. I can tell you that I have been hit by a baseball bat
> while wearing a vest, and I'm sure as heck glad I had it on! Otherwise I'd
> have been out for the count!
Sure, you can stop a blowtorch with a bulletproof vest. You can also stop a
blowtorch with padded cloth or leather -- blowtorches have fairly negligible
penetration (1 pip RKA, half a die if you're being generous). It's basically
nonflammable heavy cloth against a blowtorch. Same thing against blunt trauma.
If you think my numbers are a bit low, go with +3/+3 armor, with +2 points of
damage resistance only against bullets. Modify somewhat depending on what else
is in the armor, there's various things which can make the vest quite a bit
stiffer, but ballistic cloth really is optimized strictly for bullets.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:28:08 -0400
Lines: 33
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> You've never taught, have you?
I don't have the patience for it.
> Nor have you taken Teaching courses in college. Or been good friends
> with teachers.
Just the son of one for 30 years.
> Believe me, the requirements to be a teacher have almost nothing
> to do with actually teaching.
What does that have to do with the price of beef in Atlantis? "PS:
Teacher" is the ability to teach.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTaF956VRH7BJMxHAQEzfQP/WV74cZS7uPKresY/1NDVUVk6TI4vmGhF
vpkQeqmxf5ceKa3M/Pd3zZT2ahftY5jcHCpknNKMRGsRjTq7ZnSGJbY6vZdbjoJI
LSKSRZeHT8ke91ViRq1sHEIo2sZ5MJUpJIF37Uu+WZfGdxmPxHJpJg9tLSvtQ/kp
tT1t8EyhTqw=
=0Wnh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:31:32 -0400
Lines: 28
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Rick Holding writes:
> Correct. The way block is written, the defender makes his roll
> first. But it is a relatively simple step to have the attacker declare
> his intent to attack, the defender states he will attempt to block the
> attack, then have the attacker make his attack roll to see if a hit needs
> to be blocked and if it needs to be blocked then see how hard it will be
> to block it.
Sorry, no. By the time you know whether or not you are going to be hit, it
is too late to decide to do something -- because you've been hit already.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTaGwp6VRH7BJMxHAQF2bwP/XvjTyocBLT3pyG4u+hPYA4c6Y0t5/l7L
svyPxCa54DlPuaKEJG+yZjEZbEbdmR3bWJmT5wDfoUizbFGUtahxA2G7vmvK+4mI
HAyJBdhXNXCzEOwV1VmWiZnCxQHsgR5WnVZyueISa1PQjBsCWIsjQ0beCT0gJUnI
w/Pc5wNjKHo=
=hWNT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:36:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>>Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
>
>>Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium.
>Well.... Anime tends have its own style for doing things.
Such as? I don't think there's a single set rule that you could give me that
happens in all anime - other than the fact that it's cartoons from Japan.
>>Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl,
>>supernatural fu, romance, space opera, etc.)
>
>Would expect see all those in "Anime Hero" book.
>i.e., this is how do 'space opera' anime style, 'romance' anime
>style, etc.
>Some are anime-specific, like magical girl.
Not particularly, it's just sentai action with some romantic notions thrown
in. Hmmm...Sentai HERO...the rules for sentai action can be summed up fairly
easily:
A.) Use your weakest attack first, then ramp upwards.
B.) The villians always send in hordes of witless expendibles first.
C.) Use really cheezy posturing whenever possible.
D.) Teenagers and/or children are always the top candidates for world-saving
power.
>It would be really BIG sourcebook!
Too large. Anything over 200 pages is a hard sell, as a sourcebook. And each
genre has sub-genres and they all seem to follow entirely different 'world
assumptions'. To do justice would take 400+ pages...
> Maybe do several smaller ones.
Pick up Kazei 5 when it comes out. BTW, if you want Gundam-style giant robot
sci-fi, pick up Jovian Chronicles by Dream Pod 9. HERO to this point hasn't
done well, IMHO, simulating the Giant Robot environment. Mayhap TUSV will
remedy this; but we'll have to wait and see.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:36:20 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> RADAR "SPEED" GUN
>> Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF
>> Speedgun, Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest
>> vehicle (-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
>> AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
>Hm....strangely implemented and highly overpriced. For example, 'AE cone' is
>quite unnecessary. Try 'detect discriminatory speed, ranged, telescopic +6',
>OAF, easily confused (-1/4), 'active' sensor (-1/4?).
>AP: 24. Real: 10.
Why not just: Radar Sense; OAF (-1), Only for determining speed (-1/2)? I
wouldn't even call it Discriminatory, sure, it can correctly tell you the
speed of a vehicle it's pointed at, but probably only to one decimal place
and is easily confused...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com&>
"'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:57:45 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
The "puma-speak" is weird, but you like B5, so you're okay. ;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andreano, Keith HIM,VA [SMTP:andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 5:53 PM
> To: 'Champions'
> Subject: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
>
> OK, Leafed through few supplements for few minutes last
> night before Babylon 5 came on. Here's what was seen:
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CLOWN
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, David B Stallard wrote:
> Message text written by John and Ron Prins
> >Tag: I know I shouldn't be pushing CLOWN, but I just love the idea of a
> guy
> who chases whomever is currently 'it'.<
>
> Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people on this
> list hate them?
Clown is a group designed to make everyone loook like idiots, something I,
as a PC< would really dislike really fast. To be done right, they would
also require a GM who is *really* good at improv comedy, something easier
said than done.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >Puma been saying they should do ANIME HERO since 1992.
>
> Puma's been wrong. Anime is not a genre, it's a medium. All anime means is
> animation that comes from Japan. Other than that, there are no conventions
> to follow; not even wide-eyed women.
>
> Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or "Poetry HERO".
> Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl, supernatural fu,
> romance, space opera, etc.)
Although John's a little harsh, I do have to agree. "Anime" is a medium,
not a genre. Although one can point to certain elements that are common
to *many* anime (large-eyed girls, giant robots, leaping to the horizon)
these elements are not common to *all* anime. The effect is like trying
to make a book called "TV Hero", it just wouldn't work.
If one is going to write an anime sourcebook, then you should select a
reasonably popular type of anime... Mecha Hero for example.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo access2.digex.net from susano@access.digex.net server ql/uf2H3ZGxMA@access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:47:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >There has often been discussion about bringing certain aspects of popular
> >Anime into genre works for Hero. Michael Surbrook's Kazi Five is a good
> >example of combining cyberpunk, psionics, etc... into a game world that can
> >easily be recognized as having its roots in Akira, Appleseed, Ghost in the
> >Shell and Bubble Gum Crisis.
>
> Yes, a _genre_ of anime Michael calls "Cyberpunk Anime". I know, I helped
> him with the definition.
Yep and thanks, John.
When I created K5, I narrowed down my focus to anime/manga with similar
themes, that of the slighty (or mostly) dark near-future settings rife
with low-end mecha, psychokinetics, artifical people and strife - elements
taht combine to make a pretty cool universe IMHO.
> >>Next thing you know Puma will be pushing "Literature HERO" or "Poetry HERO".
> >>Pick a specific genre of anime (giant robot, magical girl, supernatural fu,
> >>romance, space opera, etc.)
>
> >This is what I feel is uncalled for. You can certainly argue the definition
> >of Genre and Medium, but there is absolutely no evidence that Puma seeks to
> >have a slew of genre books produced for things that are clearly not a
> >genre.
>
> Sigh. That was sarcasm.
Yeah, but sarcasm never really seems to work in text.
> >While his initial comment was not the most articulate, I think its
> >clear that what he'd like to see is Hero System supplements that bring
> >aspects of Anime into the RPG forum.
>
> No, it's not clear. He said he wants a book called "Anime HERO". Which is
> about as clear as mud. Anime is just cartoons from Japan. It has as few
> boundaries on its subject matter and style as american television does (in
> fact, probably fewer boundaries).
I'd say fewer boundries, considering what I've seen on Ranma 1/2 and
Dragonball/Dragonball Z shows.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:54:23 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
<< Trust me, you don't want to see me write up my posts 'in character as Cosmo
Lass'. :) It'd confuse even me. :) >>
<LOL> I'll take your word for it.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:08:58 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< It's unnecessary within the context of 'detect', since a ranged detect does
that kind of thing anyway. You don't need to buy area effect on spatial
awareness, now do you? >>
> You can huck it over a wall or through a window can't you? ;)
<< Hm...while true, this isn't exactly what the +1/4 level of indirect does.
>>
Sure it is. "+1/4 if the attack always come from the same location and fires
away from the attacker;" What would you suggest?
> But it does little real "damage" (i.e. Body), though it can catch things
> on fire... :/
<< Which is why we make it 'normal' damage, possibly with reduced
penetration.>>
Hmm... okay. I'll take that into consideration.
<< blowtorches have fairly negligible penetration (1 pip RKA, half a die if
you're being generous). It's basically nonflammable heavy cloth against a
blowtorch. >>
Kevlar isa nt the same as heavy cloth. It's a synthetic fiber, for one
thing.
<< Same thing against blunt trauma. >>
Horse puckey. I have seen someone wear a heavy cloth jacket and take a full
swing from a bat. The cloth protects *some* but not more than a few points'
worth (in game-speak). In the real life incident I witnessed, the victim had a
moderate injury. Kevlar, on the other hand, is much better at protecting
against blunt attacks. I know. I've experienced it first hand.
<< Modify somewhat depending on what else is in the armor, there's various
things which can make the vest quite a bit stiffer, but ballistic cloth really
is optimized strictly for bullets. >>
Okay, this I want to know. What else can be "in the armor?" And wqhat kind
of things can make the vest "stiffer?" I've worn various forms of real-world
body armor for over 10 years. If there's something I haven't heard of it would
certainly be helpful to learn about it for L&O.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:12:32 -0700
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&> GoldRushG@aol.com (GoldRushG)
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
Cc: rholding@ActOnline.com.au, champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
At 10:56 AM 4/16/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>> This is a very old net hoax. There is no such virus, nor has
there ever
>> been, and doubtful ever will be. A virus simply cannot be
transmitted by an
>> ASCII text message (aka e-mail). Now, an attached file *could*
carry a virus
>> (or *be* a virus). But simply opening e-mail does nothing.
>
> Actually, this depends upon your email software, and your browser.
>
>It's is quite easy to build a piece of Java code into an email that
will crash
>a PC running a browser and reading email through that browser. It
can be
>as simple as setting up a continuous loop to keep opening new
browser windows.
>
> Done at the right moment (which can be acheived by calling up the
right
>other stuff through Java) this will at least ruin your browser.
>
But it won't propogate itself (the *definition* of a virus!) nor
destroy any disk files. The worst it can do is crash your browser.
And about four lines of Javascript can do that, too.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNTaebzKf8mIpTvjWEQJd3wCdHW9SQT9BmLAv4wFplroJFR0Dw88AoLD4
02oSSELMOp57o282RFbP63WG
=l8K2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo14.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo14.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.36
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:17:12 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
<< Why not just: Radar Sense; OAF (-1), Only for determining speed (-1/2)? I
wouldn't even call it Discriminatory, sure, it can correctly tell you the
speed of a vehicle it's pointed at, but probably only to one decimal place and
is easily confused... >>
Because that is not how these radar guns work. That's why.
Radar guns cannot always tell you the speed of the vehicle it's pointing
toward (I say "toward" because the radar is emitted in a cone, not a line). It
will tell you the speed of the vehicle that bounces back the strongest signal.
That vehicle is generally (in tthis order): the one with the largest mass of
metal (big rigs are easier to "lock on to" than Fieros), the closest (the car
1/4 mile away will bbounce a much stronger signature than the car 1 mile away)
or the fastest (all things being equal).
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:24:00 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
At 06:13 PM 4/16/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
>
> Here's a bit of short fiction I currently have in the intro section.
>Dopesn't necessarily mean it's going to stay there in its current form, or
>even at all. To be honest, I haven't even looked at it for about a year. But
>it's something else from the book. Enjoy. ;)
I liked it, and would encourage you to keep it (perhaps in slightly
edited form) for the final work. However, something in this paragraph
stood out to me:
>"Forty-one David," came the South area dispatcher's voice over the speaker,
>"audible alarm, 6241 Heine." Another burglary alarm, Paul thought. That was
>the fourth audible alarm call he'd heard this shift. Winter always brought
>about a higher number of audible alarm calls, mostly because of the cold
>winds.
*Heine*? Are we going to be seeing street names in San Angelo like
Arsenault, Avellone, Bell, Bradley, Christiansen, Jamison, Long, MacDonald,
Masters, Perrin, Peterson, Robinson, Shomshak, Tong, and West? (Actually,
now that I think about it, I think that'd be rather cool....)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo out1.ibm.net from john.desmarais@ibm.net server @out1.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.252
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 00:24:45
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 39
On Thu, 16 Apr 98 20:34:49 -0400, John P Weatherman wrote:
>Howdy Listers,
>
>I have a couple concepts I'm stumbling over and wondered how
>you all would build them.
>
>The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a
>NND (defence is not being grounded or Personal Immunity to
>electrical SFX attacks), AOE: Line, Continuous, reduced by
>range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or inexcessable).
>Here's my problem, a jolt from a taser should drop a normal
>in a single phase, 20 to 25 points of effect or 8d6 using
>the 3 "rule". That makes a standard taser a 100 AP power,
>reduced to around 57 real points (maybe more, any ideas on
>further limitations?). So my first question is, does
>this look right. My second question is, given a 60 AP/12 DC
>game, should a taser really be beyond what a beginning character
>should have?
I'd drop the NND. Consider, when attacking "normals" the DEF involved is so low that
bypassing it isn't really worth all that much, but the extra dice you can pack in by not
making it an NND are quite worthwhile. As for using against supers - well, how effective
should a piece of equipment that you can go out an buy really be against them?
I'd also think about the AOE: Line - after all, how did you get a multi-target taser? (I might
consider the disad "beam attack").
Continuous? Eh.. No real opinion - but you may want to really think about whether or not
this is the effect your looking for (since you were concerned about being able to drop
someone with a singe blow).
All in all, I'd probably just call a taser a stun only energy blast.
>The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that
>allows for recovery every phase whether the character is acting
>or not. SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is
>"rebuilding" a host constantly. Basically it feeds energy back
>into the host organism. My basic leaning would be:
Sounds like Regeneration to me. ("Rebuilding" implies Body as opposed to Stun).
>a) Aid: No END Persistant Fully Invisible Uncontrolled v STUN and
> END both at once Only to Heal, a 27 AP cost per d6 (3 points).
> To simulate a normal would be 2d6 and then handle "healing"
> limits would need a +14 max for a total of 93 AP and 62 real
> points. This seems awfly expensive relitive to effect.
>b) SPEED equal to the characters base speed limited Only For
> Recoveries. I have no idea how limiting this should be but
> it would have to be rather extreme sence normal SPEED let you
> take every action in the game! Still, this almost feels,
> pricewise, farely reasonable.
>c) REC with say Continuous Uncontrolled advantages or some such.
> Honestly, some modifier to REC seems the cleanest, but I really
> am at a loss at to exactly what.
I dunno, I can't see most GM's letting this fly.
>Any othe ideas out there? Are these just things that don't model
>well, or are they too munchkiny? Any advise would be appreciated.
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysanbend,org>
=================================================
Gotta question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go look
over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been slowly
posting information about the list there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:27:04 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Holsters
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
At 04:56 PM 4/16/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Here are some of the holsters with applicable modifiers based on the type.
>I'll say up front that this is all intended to be *optional* stuff for people
>wanting this level of detail. It obviously is going to work better in Heroic-
>level games than Superheroic ones. ;) These are also straight from my notes,
>so the stats are subject to change.
Looks cool, and looks like yet one more reason for me to buy this book.
I do have one question, though: I noticed that the Fast Draw modifiers
were all in increments of +5 (to +15). Why so large? Do these holsters
really affect the ability that much?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:32:39 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Interpol
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
At 04:56 PM 4/16/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Here are few tidbits of info about Interpol, for folks who want to use them
>in their camapign (any campaign):
This is yet another section that I intend to set aside and use until the
L&O book comes out (you keep selling me on this thing, Mark). Once again,
though, I do have a comment:
>MEMBERSHIP
> By 1975, there were 120 member nations, each maintaining its own NCB. NCBs
>include:
[snip]
> USA (Dept of the Treasury; Washington, D.C.)
Pardon my ignorance, but I'd thought that the US agency working with
Interpol was the FBI. I don't remember my source, and I'll defer to your
greater wisdom, but if you could clarify this (used to be the FBI, my
source was wrong, I'm obviously just plain confused again, or whatever),
I'd appreciate it.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:34:11 -0700
To: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&> CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Of course, also remember that the America of most gaming supplements
is hardly the America we live in -- and I'm not merely talking about
the prescence of superheroes. For example, to judge from most gaming
supplements, nothing exists except large cities, all of which have
corrupt administrations (or a very recently elected non-corrupt one
inheriting a corrupt infrastructure). Moderates don't exist, either --
everyone is either a 60s leftover Marxist or a Straight White
Christian Male bigot. Moderation in *general* is missing;the middle
class and the working class don't exist, you are either dirt-poor or
a billionaire. Banks are about the most unsafe possible places to
keep your money, as they get robbed at least four times a day. Gang
and Mafia wars regularly sweep through the business and financial
districts of most cities. There are no small businesses;only massive
megacorporations exist, and each one has near-monopoly control over
some aspect of life. Almost no gay people exist (except in White
Wolf, where everyone is fashionably androgynous). Etc.
To make a gaming supplement worth buying, it must be different from
what you can get in a travel guide or history book. The parts of a
culture that are 'gameable' are different from the parts that govern
day-to-day life. People picking up a gaming supplement about Japan
are going to want ninjas, giant robots, and women with really big
eyes, at least up front. Real details about the government, the
education system, the real conflicts which can be '4 colorised', etc,
ought to be in there, but it has to at least *look* like there's
going to be 'cool stuff' as well.
As for what I'd like --
a)Info on the different major cities in Japan, and their 'flavor'
from a gaming perspective. Which is a cosmopolitan, San Franciso type
city? Which is a 'seedy', crime-ridden, Chicago type?
b)The nature of government -- what is the equivalent of a 'senator'?
What are the powers of the Prime Minister? Would asassinating the
Emperor have any real political impact, or is he primarily a social
figure, ala the British monarchy?
c)Note on the language -- the complex system of honorifics and
suffixes to names can be used to add flavor to character interaction.
The importance of status and interelationships between people of
different ranks is great fodder for role-playing.
d)Minority groups in Japan -- I know there are some, and that like
minority groups everywhere, they get the short end of the stick. But
what are their sizes, and where are the enclaves of foreign cultures?
e)Technical data on the Japanese defense force -- if Godzilla *does*
attack, how much force can they really muster?
f)Religious breakdown, with a special focus on the 'gaming' aspects
of religion -- demons, spirits, the reported powers of priests, etc.
g)Fringe culture. What's the Japanese equivalent of UFO nuts, militia
members, radical political groups? Does the left/right pattern map
well to Japan, or do its extremes have different sets of
political/social fetishes?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNTajgjKf8mIpTvjWEQJ3hACggG5EucKaNQaI3sEA0lWM5KmPqqQAnRSW
9BAeHEFZMNvxNfe7F1IILahX
=zUkO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mailhost.infi.net from asahoshi@nr.infi.net server @mailhost.infi.net ip 208.131.167.6
Subject: How do I...
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 20:34:49 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
Howdy Listers,
I have a couple concepts I'm stumbling over and wondered how
you all would build them.
The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a
NND (defence is not being grounded or Personal Immunity to
electrical SFX attacks), AOE: Line, Continuous, reduced by
range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or inexcessable).
Here's my problem, a jolt from a taser should drop a normal
in a single phase, 20 to 25 points of effect or 8d6 using
the 3 "rule". That makes a standard taser a 100 AP power,
reduced to around 57 real points (maybe more, any ideas on
further limitations?). So my first question is, does
this look right. My second question is, given a 60 AP/12 DC
game, should a taser really be beyond what a beginning character
should have?
The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that
allows for recovery every phase whether the character is acting
or not. SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is
"rebuilding" a host constantly. Basically it feeds energy back
into the host organism. My basic leaning would be:
a) Aid: No END Persistant Fully Invisible Uncontrolled v STUN and
END both at once Only to Heal, a 27 AP cost per d6 (3 points).
To simulate a normal would be 2d6 and then handle "healing"
limits would need a +14 max for a total of 93 AP and 62 real
points. This seems awfly expensive relitive to effect.
b) SPEED equal to the characters base speed limited Only For
Recoveries. I have no idea how limiting this should be but
it would have to be rather extreme sence normal SPEED let you
take every action in the game! Still, this almost feels,
pricewise, farely reasonable.
c) REC with say Continuous Uncontrolled advantages or some such.
Honestly, some modifier to REC seems the cleanest, but I really
am at a loss at to exactly what.
Any othe ideas out there? Are these just things that don't model
well, or are they too munchkiny? Any advise would be appreciated.
PAX,
John
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:35:42 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
At 04:56 PM 4/16/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Here is some equipment I wrote up sometime back. These are not final stats,
>to be sure. These are merely transcribed from my notes. Some of the point
>totals may be off, too (they haven't been rechecked).
>
> Mark @GRG
>===========================
>
>RADAR "SPEED" GUN
>Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF Speedgun,
>Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest vehicle
>(-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
>AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
I suspect that the AE could be dropped, unless current radar guns give a
video "speed map" of each item in the range.
>"FLASH-BANG" GRENADE
>Flash vs Sight Group 1D6, AE: 2" Rad., OAF Grenade, 1 Charge, Indirect
(+1/4),
>Linked to:
>2D6 NND (Defense is Force Field or Proof vs Sonics), AE: 2" Rad., OAF
Grenade,
>1 Charge, Indirect (+1/4)
>AP: 100 Real Cost: 24 Price: $45
For Flash Grenades, I like giving a -1/2 Limitation for having to be
facing the point of impact when it happens. (Other GMs may consider it a
"common sense -0 Lim" similar to the fact that normal Flashes only work
when the target is facing the attacker; use your own judgement on this.)
No comment on the rest. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:44:08 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
At 06:36 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>>It would be really BIG sourcebook!
>
>Too large. Anything over 200 pages is a hard sell, as a sourcebook. And each
>genre has sub-genres and they all seem to follow entirely different 'world
>assumptions'. To do justice would take 400+ pages...
Which, of course, would only work in Hero Plus.
>> Maybe do several smaller ones.
>
>Pick up Kazei 5 when it comes out. BTW, if you want Gundam-style giant robot
>sci-fi, pick up Jovian Chronicles by Dream Pod 9. HERO to this point hasn't
>done well, IMHO, simulating the Giant Robot environment. Mayhap TUSV will
>remedy this; but we'll have to wait and see.
As the author, I can tell you that it will help quite a bit (especially
since it started out as The Ultimate Giant Robot). However, I don't think
it's quite the kind of fix that you're looking for of this problem. The
best situation would probably be if someone who was a big-time Giant Robots
fan (bigger than me, at least -- and I'm not exactly a slouch) were to use
TUSV and the old Robot Warriors game as a starting point to build a Fifth
Edition genre book for it.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:46:01 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
At 06:31 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>Rick Holding writes:
>
>> Correct. The way block is written, the defender makes his roll
>> first. But it is a relatively simple step to have the attacker declare
>> his intent to attack, the defender states he will attempt to block the
>> attack, then have the attacker make his attack roll to see if a hit needs
>> to be blocked and if it needs to be blocked then see how hard it will be
>> to block it.
>
>Sorry, no. By the time you know whether or not you are going to be hit, it
>is too late to decide to do something -- because you've been hit already.
You slipped again there, Rat. Block can be Aborted to. That means that
you *can*, as Rick said, wait until you know that someone is going to try
to attack you before deciding to Block.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:54:50 -0700
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
At 04:52 PM 4/16/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
>OK, Leafed through few supplements for few minutes last
>night before Babylon 5 came on. Here's what was seen:
>
>Allies:
>Many male characters shown as sexist (females not).
>Nazi type shown, no liberals shown as bad (i.e. Commie-man).
>
>Mutant File:
>Genocide all conservative types. Most liberals shown as good,
>liking mutants. Most conservatives shown as bad, hating mutants.
>
>Red Doom:
>ONLY place Communism/Liberals shown as capable of being bad.
>
>General:
>International liberal (UN) groups (UNTIL) show as mostly good.
>US patriotic (conservative) groups (Primus) shown in negative way.
>Any religious person shown in negative way.
Far from all religious are bad. Note the Deacon and St. Peter's Star in
Classic Organizations, and Barnstormer and Lady Thunder in Allies. Oh, and
Jo-Tan in Champions Universe (a devout Buddhist).
And just incidentally, Shelley's PRIMUS sourcebook will give PRIMUS, a
mostly conservative outfit, in a more positive light (based on what I've
seen from her PBEM campaigns and preview materials). In fact, if she
included my write-up of Silver Avenger Richard Stephens (from Seattle) in
her manuscript, then you will have at least one charactr who is both
extremely conservative and eminently likeable (who, oddly, was assigned to
what was at the time one of the most liberal states in the Union to even
have a PRIMUS base).
>Please note that most religious and/or conservative people are
>NOT evil/racist. Hard to tell that from these game books! ;_;
Again, check the five above-mentioned characters. They do make up, at
least somewhat, for Reverend Billy Bob, Julie Rainbow, and Rev. Gil Purdue
(although I do think -- and I say this as a conservative Christian myself
-- that this last fellow would be a great foil for an all-Christian hero
team!).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:55:24 -0500
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11,13-18
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
>
>RADAR "SPEED" GUN
>Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF
>Speedgun,
>Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest
>vehicle
>(-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
>AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
>
Shouldn't that be discriminatory? As built, all you get is "That's Fast"
or
something like that. Also, why make it a sense? Does it go off by
itself?
(Doubtful, given the Conc. limit)
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: How do I...
To: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Cc: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
John P Weatherman writes:
> The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a
> NND (defence is not being grounded or Personal Immunity to
> electrical SFX attacks), AOE: Line, Continuous, reduced by
> range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or inexcessable).
Nope. Your average taser is 'energy blast, stun only'. ED _is_ insulation, if
it will stop a lightning bolt it will stop a taser. Continuous is also
debatable, I have doubts about how well it will stay attached once the target
starts jerking around. It _isn't_ an area effect, and it isn't 'reduced by
range', it just has crappy range (which is probably the same -1/4 disadvantage,
so no big deal). In addition, to 'drop' a normal in a single phase you don't
need to KO them, stunning them is usually plenty. I'd call a taser a 5d6 EB,
OAF, limited range (points/5, -1/4), 6 charges, total 8 points. A comic-book
taser might be more.
>
> The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that
> allows for recovery every phase whether the character is acting
> or not.
> Any othe ideas out there? Are these just things that don't model
> well, or are they too munchkiny? Any advise would be appreciated.
In general, any mechanic for this will be somewhat munchkin, because the effect
itself is pretty unreasonable. I'd go with using the regeneration as a special
effect of defenses instead.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:59:37 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
At 09:55 AM 4/16/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> At 11:01 PM 4/15/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>> >
>> >I don't follow you here...I was going to partially limit the
>> >multipower...10 pts of the reserve (to pull a number out of my hat)
>> >would be unlimited, the next 10 would have 'only if 1 pair is drawn', the
>> >next 10 'only if 2 pair', etc. Overall limitations would be OAF: Cards,
>> >gestures, full phase, and 'must use best hand'. I think the 'side
>> >effects' are a -0 since they're pretty rare.
>>
>> In other words, something pretty close to what I suggested?
>> BTW, for "Must Use Best Hand," I'd recommend -1/2 as a bonus level.
>
>Yeah. It was the 'must have X hand' that was tripping me up. Is that
>suggested -1/2 for everything, or should I be using -1/2 instead of -1/4
>for each level of 'Must have X hand'?
I'm suggesting a -1/2 for the whole Multipower, in addition to the "Must
Have X Hand" Limitation.
>> >The chance of getting it 'pat (first hand) is somewhere in the .00005%
>> >range. That's why I added 'No Conscious Control'. I was pondering
>> >applying multiple activation rolls, too, to get the percentages right.
>> >(i.e. two 11- (50%) activation rolls would really be 25%...)
>> By the time
>> you get to the "Must Make [Given Hand]" Limitation for that level, though,
>> you'll be approaching (if not exceeding) that level of Limitation anyway.
>
>Well, if I use -1/4 per level, I won't - 10 hands = -2 1/2 limit for the
>Royal Flush. If I'm using -1/2 per level, then it certainly works
>better...
>
>The thing that bothers me about using a steady progression is that the
>jumps between the odds of getting each hand aren't even...this might be
>small enough to even out in gameplay, I'm not sure.
Then how about a cumulative increase? Start with -1/4; then
-(1/4+1/2)=3/4, then -(1/4+1/2+3/4)=1 1/2, then -(1/4+1/2+3/4+1)=2 1/2....
>> And by the way, actually 11- is about 62%; twice that is around 38%. If
>> you want a 25% chance, though, just try an 8- Activation.
>
>That'll teach me to post without my reference material. Lemme try this
>again. Lets put two 8- activation rolls on the power for a total of -4
>limit - the power has a 6.25% chance of working then (25% of 25%) -
>roughly equivalent to a 5- activation (4.5%). Continue to add activation
>rolls of various sizes until you get to the % you want...
>
>Does this seem way off or is it actually usable?
While I suppose it could work; I just like the pattern of doubling the
Limitation for every -3 to the Roll.
However, you're apparently looking for appropriate Limitation levels for
given percentage chances. I suppose you could continue to extrapolate past
the ~.5% to get bigger bonuses for smaller percentages, if you have the
mathematical knowhow.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:10:50 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
At 09:06 AM 4/16/1998 -0500, Sakura wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> At 08:48 PM 4/15/1998 -0400, Michael Sprague wrote:
>> >There is a software package, called Poser 2, by Fractal Design that
_looks_
>> >like it could be a good way to create a bunch of Cardboard Heroes. It's
>> >intent is to create realistic looking 3-D people, from babies to
>> >super-heroic physique. It looks like you can add clothing (costume) and
>> >additional stuff (extra arms?) to personalize each one. Once you create
>> >one, you can rotate and look (print) it at any angle, so it would be
easy to
>> >get a front and rear view of the same pose.
>> >
>> >I would love knowing how to use this software, but I simply don't have the
>> >time. Has anyone tried it?
>>
>> I haven't tried it, but for various purposes (this among them) it is on
>> my "To Get" list of software. Therefore I would like to hear what anyone
>> else has to say about the program....
>
>I've got it, and it works pretty well. You can adjust the pose or use one
>of several preset poses, you can create a color map to overlay on the
>figure (I haven't done this yet) and if you've got another 3d package, you
>can model stuff there and either import it as a prop or use it to replace
>one of the existing things (hand/forearm/arm/head/chest/etc). If you were
>really dedicated and a modeling whiz, you could use the program to create
>mecha that moved like humans...
For that last item, I'd probably have to wait until MechPoser came out,
or at least until someone with the talent and inclination created a package
of Giant Robot frames.
It's cool to know that Sledge can live again thanks to this program,
though. ;-]
>One other thing that Poser 2 does is animate the figures - you can define
>keyframes and watch the thing move. Be aware that it's a 3d rendering
>program, though, so any anymations you do will take a /long/ time to
>finish, unless (and probably even if) you've got a professional-level
>graphics setup.
My system is nowhere near that, but I do have specific plans to upgrade
as I start getting royalties (including a top-flight graphics accelerator a
ways down the road).
>You can print directly or (my favorite) export the figure into another 3d
>program, or even export a rendered picture into a regular paint program.
>
>My advice: If you need it for more than just Cardboard Heros, get it. If
>it's just for gaming stuff, it might be a bit expensive - you might want
>to try looking for an old copy of Poser 1 (less features, no animation,
>but cheaper).
The animation feature was the main thing I wanted to use it for. I have
some ideas for computer-generated animated short subjects for video (read:
cartoons) that I'd like to try it on. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo magic.cyberone.com.au from rholding@actonline.com.au server root@c1-www.ispsys.net ip 210.8.19.250
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:33:06 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
To: champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-- Just passing this along from a friend.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-POP3-Rcpt: rholding@actonline.com.au@genie
Return-Path: <strop@orac.net.au>
Received: from magic.actonline.com.au (root@magic.actonline.com.au [203.29.91.2])
by genie.cyberone.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21907
for <rholding@news.cyberone.com.au&> Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:47:51 +1000
Received: from cally.orac.net.au (root@cally.can.orac.net.au [203.30.77.157]) by magic.actonline.com.au (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA28324 for <rholding@actonline.com.au&> Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:50:01 +1000
Received: from strop (jendigital-25.canberra.orac.net.au [203.37.33.125])
by cally.orac.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05991;
Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:01:09 +1000
Message-Id: <199804150301.NAA05991@cally.orac.net.au>
From: "Wayne and Shelby Schofield" <strop@orac.net.au>
To: "Peter Jenkins" <peter.jenkins@mail.sema.co.uk>
Cc: "Tony Winmill" <winmill@ibm.net&> "Tabbi Bowker" <bowker@palnet.com&>
"steve myers" <stevem@homemail.com&>
"Rick Holding" <rholding@actonline.com.au&>
"Rebecca Ollenich" <thebecksta@hotmail.com&>
"Rachelle Coates" <rachellecoates@yahoo.com&>
"Phil Hastie" <phastie@dynamite.com.au&>
"Peter Tolhurst" <tolhurstpj@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:48:25 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Subject: more warnings on viruses
Sensitivity: Private
This is a warning I received today... Just keep these in the back of your
mind..... Michael
>>If you receive an e-mail titled "WIN A HOLIDAY" DO NOT open it, it will
>>erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many
>>people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many
>>people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning
>>from Microsoft, please share it with everyone that might access the
>>Internet.
>>
>>Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that
>>this
>>may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look atany mail that says
>>"RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVER" this virus will attach itself to your
>>computer components and render them useless. Immediately delete any
>>mail
>>items that say this. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus
>>and
>>that there is NO remedy for it at this time. please practice cautionary
>>measures and forward this to all your on-line friends.
>>
>>Kimberly J. Griggs
>>Accounting Manager
>>Gateway Systems Corporation
>>4660 S. Hagadorn, Suite 110
>>East Lansing, MI 48823-5353
----------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:35:37 -0700
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
At 10:15 AM 4/16/1998 -0400, Chris Hartjes wrote:
>Do we *really* have to talk about politics. Are there no other topics
>that can be used for personal assaults and long-winded posts that
>degenerate into "my way or the highway"? I fail to see what politcs has
>to do with Champions. Being a Canadian, I find the whole US political
>system a constant source of amusement and I keep politics out of my
>campaigns. Nothing ruins a good discussion more than politics.
Well, then you probably won't like my Northwest supplement, since an
unusually large proportion of situations in Oregon seem to arise from
thepolitical views, agendas, and disagreements of various individuals and
organizations. In just the past 15 years or so, I've seen incredibly
bitter, vindictive, and occasionally violent debates on matters ranging
from abortion, euthenasia, and gay rights to sales tax proposals, term
limits for elected officials, and even an update of our bottle deposit law.
(Yes, folks, there were a couple of personal-attack ads along the lines
of, "Don't let These People shove their ideas down our throat," over the
issue of paying a refundable five cents for the bottle that Snapple and
similar drinks come in.)
Yes, I do plan to go into this, at least to an extent, in my book, and
even include a couple of politically-motivated villains on various sides of
different issues (including a neo-Nazi, and a group of superpowered
gay-rights radicals that even radical gay-rights groups don't like).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:43:47 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
At 01:35 PM 4/16/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
> Okay, this is an outline in progress and is NOT the final outline,
>necessarily. But a few people expressed interest in seeing more Law & Order
>material, so here you go. ;)
Looks nifty. Now I'll probably be able to give Rattler a proper array
of skills to reflect his background in the US Marshal's Office. :-]
I might suggest moving the bibliography/filmography (is "Barney Miller"
going to be included?) to an Appendix, but otherwise it looks tres
magnifique.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:45:10 -0700
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
At 10:14 PM 4/15/1998, qts wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:57:47 -0500 (CDT), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> Football is probably best handled with specialized combat skills,
>>actually. PS: Football player would work for many things. Not for
>>throwing, and probably not for catching, however. Same for tackling and
>>eluding the tackle. Heck, even blocking. Those are all combat skills.
>
>Didn't they do a 'football' martial art?
It's in Ninja Hero. I was slightly disappointed that it wasn't carried
forward into The Ultimate Martial Artist.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:52:12 -0400
Lines: 35
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
John P Weatherman writes:
> The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a NND (defence is
> not being grounded or Personal Immunity to electrical SFX attacks),
How about a Stun-only Energy Blast?
[...]
> The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that allows
> for recovery every phase whether the character is acting or not.
The system does not allow for it.
> SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is "rebuilding" a host
> constantly.
That is not recovery, that is Regeneration.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTa1y56VRH7BJMxHAQEB5AP/TvXcEK+tKsSsudk+aX6PeHOozedzhM7c
F4aQYShVlODSHU9K4QAhHNcLuf0oE86OBTrPNmIxGScdRkoNM1rMG/ujGvULvoNl
uXkACeRlM6lC7GgBZJ2gu3I0rxLtKMcsvG3aKK0ocbZ4bcwA8iRwQEx37SK3Yrtt
yyPdcJg7MmA=
=eTZX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:54:28 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
At 04:08 PM 4/16/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
>cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: Foxbat
>
>On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Justin Calvaneso wrote:
>
>> I'd like to scrap together a list of the book he's appeared in thus far.
>> Can anyone help? I think there's Enemies Assemble, Foxbat Unhinged, any
>> others? Danke.
>
>His writeup can be found in Classic Enemies (and I think his _original_
>writeup first appeared in Enemies 2, for 1st Edition).
>
>He plays a small role in the Sanctuary section of Classic Organizations (I
>don't remember if he was involved in the Assault on Sanctuary, but I do
>recall Freddy Foswell sneaking into the Superhero summercamp scenario).
Yes, Foxbat was present at the Assault on Sanctuary. He'd sacrificed
his Ping Pong Ball Gun to create a set of tracers that would tell him the
exact location, powers, and weaknesses of everyone in the room.
Unfortunately (for him), Merry Andrew got ahold of the things and reversed
their function so that everyone in the room suddenly knew his exact
location, powers, and weaknesses. The Champions, the Ultimates, CLOWN, and
Road Kill stop their fighting just long enough to track him down to the
Mechanical Room and punch his lights out.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo magic.cyberone.com.au from rholding@actonline.com.au server root@c1-www.ispsys.net ip 210.8.19.250
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:11:10 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 80
One thing. Find Weakness is not Int based, its just a plain 11-.
Otherwise, pretty good.
What about the person who already has find weakness? Give him an
extra +2 perhaps?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from dpawtows@access.digex.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: CLOWN
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:11:15 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
>
> A lot of the more, um, "serious gamers", think that CLOWN is an insult
Awww.....
> the genre. Personally, I think they're a hoot - but I've only
> actually used them once in a campaign.
Yay, Clown!!
>
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo emerald from dpawtows@access.digex.net server @emerald.omg.org ip 192.67.184.65
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: CLOWN
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:14:31 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
>
> humilated is seldom the PC's idea of a good time, and that's what CLOWN is
> there to do - humiliate heroes. And some of them belong in more serious
> villian organizations - like April Foolkiller and Tag.
They certainly don't have to be played that way. They can be humiliated,
too. (OK, so that happened when CLOWN, Foxbat, and a bunch of Mechanons
got into a fight atop a giant purple M&M floating in Philladelphia
harbor. The PC's later buried the M&M and made it into a secret
base)
Daniel Pawtowski
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo moe.rice.edu from chip@owlnet.rice.edu server @moe.rice.edu ip 128.42.5.4
From: "Darien Lynx" <chip@owlnet.rice.edu>
To: "Champions" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:22:56 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
One possibility for recovering every phase is used in several campaigns as a
house rule. It's very simple: you split up the post-segment-12 recovery and
give a portion of it to the character every phase. My low-speed, high-REC
players prefer this option. I allow players to choose which they want, but
their REC has to be evenly divisible by their speed if they want per-phase
partitioning, and they have to stick by it (no changing!) Sometimes the
partitioning works for you, and sometimes against.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: How do I...
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>John P Weatherman writes:
>
>> The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a NND (defence is
>> not being grounded or Personal Immunity to electrical SFX attacks),
>
>How about a Stun-only Energy Blast?
>
>[...]
>
>> The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that allows
>> for recovery every phase whether the character is acting or not.
>
>The system does not allow for it.
>
>> SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is "rebuilding" a host
>> constantly.
>
>That is not recovery, that is Regeneration.
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
>Charset: noconv
>
>iQCVAwUBNTa1y56VRH7BJMxHAQEB5AP/TvXcEK+tKsSsudk+aX6PeHOozedzhM7c
>F4aQYShVlODSHU9K4QAhHNcLuf0oE86OBTrPNmIxGScdRkoNM1rMG/ujGvULvoNl
>uXkACeRlM6lC7GgBZJ2gu3I0rxLtKMcsvG3aKK0ocbZ4bcwA8iRwQEx37SK3Yrtt
>yyPdcJg7MmA=
>=eTZX
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>--
>Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
>PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
> \
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com&> Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
GoldRushG@aol.com
Cc: rholding@ActOnline.com.au, champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:24:03 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
Depends what brower you're running. Seems like mine sometimes goes down
with the first line ;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lizard [SMTP:lizard@dnai.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 8:13 PM
> To: Brian Wong; GoldRushG@aol.com
> Cc: rholding@ActOnline.com.au; champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: More VIRUS Warnings - Very Important!!!]
> > Done at the right moment (which can be acheived by calling up the
> right
> >other stuff through Java) this will at least ruin your browser.
> >
> But it won't propogate itself (the *definition* of a virus!) nor
> destroy any disk files. The worst it can do is crash your browser.
> And about four lines of Javascript can do that, too.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Soliloquies
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4,6-7,12-13,15,17,19,21-22,24-26,35-37
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:24:29 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
>In the middle of combat, what if a PC1 asks a question of PC2? Would
you
>require PC2 to wait until his phase to respond, or allow him to respond
>immediately? If he can respond immediately, then the PCs can
essentially
>discuss tactics while the villains sit by and wait for time to "start
up" again.
Depends on what sort of response we're talking about. If PC1 yells for
help, I'd let PC2 call out "Hold on, I'm coming" or something along that
line immediately. I wouldn't let PCs converse during a fight, though,
unless the villians also got a chance to "freeze frame" and discuss the
best way to clobber the heroes. It doesn't seem fair otherwise.
>In a related question, do you use "table talk" in your game, where
anything
>the player says is assumed to be something his character says? If so,
then
>the players couldn't relay ideas to each other "offline" and implement
them
>immediately. If not, then it would seem that their characters
immediately
>came up with a complex battle plan without saying a word to each other.
>Maybe this is where coded maneuvers (like "Cannonball Special" or
"Manuever
>#9") come in handy....
I've played with groups that enforced a rule of "if you say it, your
character said it" unless a player specifically indicated he was speaking
out of character. If you're trying to show a group what role-playing (as
opposed to rolling dice) is about, it's a workable if brute-force method.
If you have a loud-mouthed player who keeps coming up with idiotic
ideas, this is a good way to slap him down, especially if you combine it
with a "no takebacks" rule (i.e. you can't say "Oh, I didn't mean that, I
meant ...). Personally, I think a group of good roleplayers doesn't need
this rule, but that's my bias showing.
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo pentagon.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@pentagon.io.com ip 199.170.88.5
X-Authentication-Warning: pentagon.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:39:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 06:36 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >>It would be really BIG sourcebook!
> >
> >Too large. Anything over 200 pages is a hard sell, as a sourcebook. And
> >each genre has sub-genres and they all seem to follow entirely
> >different 'world assumptions'. To do justice would take 400+ pages...
>
> Which, of course, would only work in Hero Plus.
No, it wouldn't; not unless Hero Plus decides to lower its prices
(hint...)
> >> Maybe do several smaller ones.
> >
> >Pick up Kazei 5 when it comes out. BTW, if you want Gundam-style giant
> >robot sci-fi, pick up Jovian Chronicles by Dream Pod 9. HERO to this
> >point hasn't done well, IMHO, simulating the Giant Robot environment.
> >Mayhap TUSV will remedy this; but we'll have to wait and see.
>
> As the author, I can tell you that it will help quite a bit
> (especially since it started out as The Ultimate Giant Robot). However,
> I don't think it's quite the kind of fix that you're looking for of this
> problem. The best situation would probably be if someone who was a
> big-time Giant Robots fan (bigger than me, at least -- and I'm not
> exactly a slouch) were to use TUSV and the old Robot Warriors game as a
> starting point to build a Fifth Edition genre book for it.
Mecha Hero, that is; Anime Hero is simply too broad of a subject.
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from kane476323@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: Kane476323 <Kane476323@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:41:24 EDT
To: Alurmic@aol.com
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: justice inc for sale
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
i am auctioning off a complete boxed set of justice inc and several old V+V
modules anyone interested please contact me.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo sanfran.infinex.com from rook@infinex.com server root@ns1.infinex.com ip 207.113.220.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:01:43 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
To: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
CC: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&> CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
> a billionaire. Banks are about the most unsafe possible places to
> keep your money, as they get robbed at least four times a day. Gang
> and Mafia wars regularly sweep through the business and financial
> districts of most cities. There are no small businesses;only massive
> megacorporations exist, and each one has near-monopoly control over
> some aspect of life. Almost no gay people exist (except in White
> Wolf, where everyone is fashionably androgynous). Etc.
I thought this was about portraying gaming worlds; not 'life in LA'. :)
> To make a gaming supplement worth buying, it must be different from
> what you can get in a travel guide or history book. The parts of a
True.
> culture that are 'gameable' are different from the parts that govern
> day-to-day life. People picking up a gaming supplement about Japan
> are going to want ninjas, giant robots, and women with really big
> eyes, at least up front. Real details about the government, the
> education system, the real conflicts which can be '4 colorised', etc,
> ought to be in there, but it has to at least *look* like there's
> going to be 'cool stuff' as well.
I dunno. My point is that there are many things about asia that can be
used without having to resort to silly, sometimes demeaning and ussually
inacurate stereotypes. The place is rife with adventure possibilities.
The big eyed women and Giant Robots are fine for 'Anime Hero' or 'Mecha
Hero', but if I buy 'Japan Hero' I'd want to learn some basic details
about life in Japan, then how to use Japan in diferent points in history
for various genres of gaming. Obviously, it's quite possible the book I
buy is not so general; but just a super book (to give an example) in
which case I'd want to see Hero's and Villians that could actually fit
the society, rahter than the stereotypes assigned to it. I'd also want
to see info on taking various aspects of Japan and using them for a
super's game. A little knowledge on the role Japan plays in asia shows
that it makes a place good for much struggle.
Some example topics:
1. Most other asians would view any Japanese hero as a villian by
default. Covering this stryfe might be handy. It could easily shape the
nature of many heroes and villians.
2. Two of their cities got a-bombed. That bound to make some good mutant
origins
3. Their primary religion, Shinto, is shamanic in nature. Mystical
heroes and villians would be good ideas.
4. Big business is big there, this would affect the kinds of teams
there.
5. Japan is one of the asian countries that places a higher value on the
group than the individual. A section could cover how this affects a Hero
and a Villians motivations and actions could prove interesting. Despite
what many may think; this way of thinking is VERY diferent from that of
westerners and leads to actions which seem to us to be highly illogical.
6. On that topic, a basic overview of notable cultural diferences and
how best to handle roleplaying them if you yourself are not native to
them would be very handy for most western players and GMs.
> As for what I'd like --
> a)Info on the different major cities in Japan, and their 'flavor'
> b)The nature of government -- what is the equivalent of a 'senator'?
> c)Note on the language -- the complex system of honorifics and
> d)Minority groups in Japan -- I know there are some, and that like
> f)Religious breakdown, with a special focus on the 'gaming' aspects
> g)Fringe culture. What's the Japanese equivalent of UFO nuts, militia
All good ideas. Perhaps also a list of common names would be handy
and advice on how Japanese name their kids.
Of course, for me; I'd prefer a book on asia in general over one on
Japan. Or perhaps as well. I could write one on Korea in my sleep, if I
could ever get the time and patience to write it all down. The rest of
the region is familiar to me, but if I did it I'd want to do a lot
research for it. To date I've yet to see anything for asia in a gaming
book that did the region justice or in some way wasn't patronizing to
one aspect or another.
I'm hoping Sengoku will do Japan justice for the classical period. I
should have joined their mailing list too take a look at how well it's
team knew their stuff; but I didn't. Oh well. (Here's were I imagine
Mark @ GRG will tell me I still can or something. :) )
--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â
__
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links Page
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero Role
Playing
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:24:43 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net (Unverified)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
><< Why not just: Radar Sense; OAF (-1), Only for determining speed (-1/2)? I
>wouldn't even call it Discriminatory, sure, it can correctly tell you the
>speed of a vehicle it's pointed at, but probably only to one decimal place and
>is easily confused... >>
>
> Because that is not how these radar guns work. That's why.
>
> Radar guns cannot always tell you the speed of the vehicle it's pointing
>toward (I say "toward" because the radar is emitted in a cone, not a line). It
>will tell you the speed of the vehicle that bounces back the strongest signal.
>That vehicle is generally (in tthis order): the one with the largest mass of
>metal (big rigs are easier to "lock on to" than Fieros), the closest (the car
>1/4 mile away will bbounce a much stronger signature than the car 1 mile away)
>or the fastest (all things being equal).
Well if Radar guns are _that_ inaccurate, I don't see how the cops get away
with using them! :-) I can accept your explanation of how radar guns 'work'
in real life, but how does the above game mechanic fail? Radar detects
objects by bouncing electromagnetic waves off them, and reading the return.
If it's limited to a cone, fine, limit it to a cone (I assume that ranged
sense are not 'beams' but roughly 180 degree coverage - so any ranged detect
that works in a cone would get a limitation, not an area effect advantage!).
To wit; Radar sense bounces radio waves off a target. I assume Police Radar
Guns do the same, if somewhat imperfectly. So why does Radar Sense fail as
the 'sense of choice'?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:27:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Hero Games <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Which published villains do you use?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
> One team that I use, that I am surprised no one else has mentioned, is
> Deathstroke. This team is great for the circles you can run with their
> competancy, mental stability and they work fine for both
> world-threatening plots and bank robberies.
Ya know, I keep meaning to bring these guys in and never get
around to it. An ex-GM of mine, before CU came out, updated the
characters and merged them with the Ultimates. I wasn't expecting Stinger
and Deathsinger when going after Binder and Blackstar.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 16 Apr 1998 23:41:43 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Bob Greenwade writes:
> You slipped again there, Rat. Block can be Aborted to. That means that
> you *can*, as Rick said, wait until you know that someone is going to try
> to attack you before deciding to Block.
Read what Rick wrote again. He was describing the making of the Block roll
*AFTER* the attacker makes his attack roll. In essence, allowing you to
pick the action to which you abort after you know whether or not you will
be hit, and by how much.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTbPcJ6VRH7BJMxHAQEBnwP+IBlTT6obWf+x6hApktRSzBo/AVDzsYZ7
qF533TPnLFq0Ez1FkhO6CCSSK8BsqOiF8O/Q5F04m44XElFP8H4Usn0B8xhHMdut
HuyxZBLnHo4WsA/97Cm/fQBQIcMMDTO9wdqojFxATw8ZjTm2+P7Zd2mKyI3FkUN1
BXYYHqk7fFQ=
=S0mU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:01:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
> He plays a small role in the Sanctuary section of Classic Organizations (I
> don't remember if he was involved in the Assault on Sanctuary, but I do
> recall Freddy Foswell sneaking into the Superhero summercamp scenario).
Very much involved in the Assult on Sanctuary. Both sides ended
up turning on him to get him out of the combat.
The Assult on Sanctuary has always been a one-shot-type of thing
that I'd love to run. The writeup in CU was great.
Heck, CU as a whole was great. It and Classic Enemies have
probably been my two most useful books. (Not necessarily best, but
definately the most useful.)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:13:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
> > BTW, it is not necessary to send to me and the Champions Mailing list, as
> > I am a subscriber.
> >
> Well, I'm not going to manually edit all these things, so it's group
> reply as the option now that they took out the all too sensible option of
> having the reply-to in there.
Refusing to follow simple common courtesy in this way is, IMO, a
good reason to kick someone off of a list.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:15:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
> > Football is probably best handled with specialized combat skills,
> >actually. PS: Football player would work for many things. Not for
> >throwing, and probably not for catching, however. Same for tackling and
> >eluding the tackle. Heck, even blocking. Those are all combat skills.
>
> Didn't they do a 'football' martial art?
Yup, but only the really good would have the maneuvers. The rest
would make do with the freebies that everybody has.
So what would be the modifiers for trying to get past a grappling
Offenive Tackle to bring down the sweeping Running Back with a Martial
Grab?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:26:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
> > You've never taught, have you?
>
> I don't have the patience for it.
Don't blaim you. I dropped my Teacher Certification aspect of my
degree in an effort to teach at the College level and college level only.
> > Believe me, the requirements to be a teacher have almost nothing
> > to do with actually teaching.
>
> What does that have to do with the price of beef in Atlantis? "PS:
> Teacher" is the ability to teach.
Nothing to your question. However, a PS is the minimum needed to
hold a job in that field, plain and simple. Holding a job as a teacher is
more a matter of knowing procedure than teacher. Sad but true.
At the same time, this is a great place for a skill that has usage
outside of the professional field. A great way to expand the rules.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:29:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CLOWN
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
> > Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people on this
> > list hate them?
>
> Clown is a group designed to make everyone loook like idiots, something I,
> as a PC< would really dislike really fast. To be done right, they would
> also require a GM who is *really* good at improv comedy, something easier
> said than done.
Comic relief, not "look like idiots". Though the two are not
exclusive. I've had fun with them and the Heroes going toe to toe in a
battle of pranks. It ended with a Basketball Game at the United Center to
save the Jordan Statue with a kidnapped Mike Ditka as guest referee. BTW,
CLOWN now has Hunted by Mike Ditka as a disad in my campaign.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:39:46 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
<< The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a NND (defence is
not being grounded or Personal Immunity to electrical SFX attacks), AOE: Line,
Continuous, reduced by range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or
inexcessable). >>
Okay, here I go in "reality-grounded cop equipment critic" mode. ;)
Not being grounded is no reliable defense against a taser, IMO.
The AE: Line isn't applicable because the taser can only hit one target, not
affect every potential target within the "line." Thos little dart-linke barbs
can only stick in one target at a time. ;)
The taser is not Reduced by Range. Whethe the target is struck 3 feet from
the "gun" or 13 feet away, the damage will be the same. It *does* have a
limited range, however (and that exact max limit is beyond my recollection at
the moment).
The focus would, indeed be OAF. The gun itself is a focus, as is the line
that runs from the gun to the barb. Cut the line and you stop the damage. Now,
if we're talking about stun guns, that's a different beast entirely. Those
have "No Range," needing to be in direct contact with the target. ;)
You should also add "1 Recoverable Charge," as the gun must be "reloaded"
(the wires retracted and the barbs reset) to be fired again.
<< Here's my problem, a jolt from a taser should drop a normal in a single
phase, >>
NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT MEANT AS EDITORIALIZING OR INTENDED TO BE A
POLITICIAL STATEMENT -- ONLY A STATEMENT OF FACTS AND OF GAME MECHANICS. ANY
OFFENSE TAKEN BY ANY PERSON WHO READS THIS IS PURELY UNINTENTIONAL; DO NOT E-
MAIL ME WITH FLAMES OR TRY TO ENGAGE ME IN DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT.
*Should* is the operative word. To simulate the seemingly miraculous effects
of situations like the Rodney King incident, in which he was hit by a taser
*twice* and was not completely incapacitated -- an affect normally only
encountered with subjects under the influence of PCP or other narcotics or the
mentally ill -- you could to14- activation roll, or perhaps a Limitation "14-
Activation against enraged, metally ill or those under the influence of
narcotics, -1/4" (just a suggestion).
<< So my first question is, does this look right. >>
Overall, sure, taking into consideration my suggestions above.
<< My second question is, given a 60 AP/12 DC game, should a taser really be
beyond what a beginning character should have? >>
The NPC cops have access to it. Why not a PC?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo26.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo26.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.70
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:42:25 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 41
<< if Godzilla *does* attack, how much force can they really muster? >>
haven't you heard? Godzilla is foregoing Tokyo in favor of New York these
days. The Japanese Defense Forces are downsizing in a big way since this
latest development. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Size DOES Matter! :D
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:52:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 42
> Again, check the five above-mentioned characters. They do make up, at
> least somewhat, for Reverend Billy Bob, Julie Rainbow, and Rev. Gil Purdue
> (although I do think -- and I say this as a conservative Christian myself
> -- that this last fellow would be a great foil for an all-Christian hero
> team!).
Good points on positive Conservatives. I'm trying to recall
others, myself.
I'm working on a Christian Hero/Villian group. I'm going with the
currently popular assumption of Gabrial as a semi-rogue angel trying to
take the top ArchAngel spot from Michael. She's (yes, she) has come to
Earth assuming that all the supernatural/superhuman activity is an
abhorrance and is starting a group to try to wipe it out, being an Angel
hero for getting rid of the menace. So far I've got Revelation, a MA with
a spiritual sword of holy white flame, and Rapture, a female flying EB
with holy white flame. I'm trying to think of a third so I can call the
team The Trinity, but haven't been able to think of a cool term. Anyone?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:02:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
Reply-To: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 43
> At 04:52 PM 4/16/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> >OK, Leafed through few supplements for few minutes last
> >night before Babylon 5 came on. Here's what was seen:
I just started watching B5 when it came to TNT and have been very
impressed. But it'll be tricky to try to run a RP game based on it.
> >Allies:
> >Many male characters shown as sexist (females not).
Who? Only one character had a psych relating to this (Thinks He's God's
Gift to women). The Zen Team leader (Zen Lion?) had 'doesn't understand
women, would be more comfortable with a submissive woman' line in his
write up, which is more a relatively common stereotype of Japanese men. A
few other characters had little sections in the write up about them dating
alot, but unless you count that as sexist...;)
> >Nazi type shown, no liberals shown as bad (i.e. Commie-man).
Aryan Man was not in fact shown as bad. A 'liberal' would make him a
vile villain, not give him a code of honor and make him someone trying to
be a hero. Since Fascism/Naxi is at the far right (At least on the same
rather inaccurate scale that put the Soviet Union/Communism on the far
left), a liberal would have used 'The People's Hero' a firm believer in
Communism trying to be a hero.
> >
> >Mutant File:
> >Genocide all conservative types. Most liberals shown as good,
> >liking mutants. Most conservatives shown as bad, hating mutants.
I have it someplace but could not find it. Hope I didn't lose it in the
move.
> >
> >Red Doom:
> >ONLY place Communism/Liberals shown as capable of being bad.
Not true. There is another group in another book, I forget the title, who
is lead by a Vasalov trained shifter Comminist baddie. This is of course
assuming Soviet Communism=Liberalism, which is far from the truth.
I'm not a publisher, just a Political Scientist.;) Believe me, I'm not
bragging, I wish I had gone into computers now.:)
> >
> >General:
> >International liberal (UN) groups (UNTIL) show as mostly good.
I admit I didn't see anything in the write ups given to UNTIL that had a
liberal slant. They just seemed to be an attempt at a international good
agent group.
> >US patriotic (conservative) groups (Primus) shown in negative way.
Generally true. I think to a degree this was true because at the time the
out of control government type was big (Henry Peter Gyrich, anyone?).
This C:TNM is Fuzion but by Hero Games in the Guard government group
replacing Primus and SAT is patriotic and shown positively.
> >Any religious person shown in negative way.
>
> Far from all religious are bad. Note the Deacon and St. Peter's Star in
> Classic Organizations, and Barnstormer and Lady Thunder in Allies. Oh, and
> Jo-Tan in Champions Universe (a devout Buddhist).
Good points.
> And just incidentally, Shelley's PRIMUS sourcebook will give PRIMUS, a
> mostly conservative outfit, in a more positive light (based on what I've
> seen from her PBEM campaigns and preview materials). In fact, if she
> included my write-up of Silver Avenger Richard Stephens (from Seattle) in
> her manuscript, then you will have at least one charactr who is both
> extremely conservative and eminently likeable (who, oddly, was assigned to
> what was at the time one of the most liberal states in the Union to even
> have a PRIMUS base).
I'm looking forward to this book, I've always liked Primus.
>
> >Please note that most religious and/or conservative people are
> >NOT evil/racist. Hard to tell that from these game books! ;_;
And most liberals are not evil/bad either.;)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:06:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 44
<< Nope. Your average taser is 'energy blast, stun only'. ED _is_
insulation, if
it will stop a lightning bolt it will stop a taser. >>
I think you are confusing a taser with a stun gun.
<< Continuous is also debatable, I have doubts about how well it will stay
attached once the target starts jerking around. >>
Hmm.. that could be a special effect of the OAF Limitation, though, don't
you think?
The taser is better simulated by an NND than a standard EB, IMO.
Btw, I thought of another Limitation for the taser: Cannot penetrate
Armor/rDEF.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo17.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo17.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.39
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:10:49 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 45
> Well, I'm not going to manually edit all these things,
Why not? I do.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:15:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 47
> Skills that a person can acquire through a hobby; abilities in these areas
> does not necessarily require any professional training. PS: Computer
> Programmer must include Computer Progamming as a job-related ability,
Then why buy Computer Programmin when the PS is cheaper? But the
Hero Games ruling explained that quite well. I'm going to go with "all
abilities unless useful outside the profession." I'm also going to make
Writing a separate skill but add it as an Everyman at 8-.
> the separate Computer Programming Skill would represent programming skills
> picked out on my own, irrespective of the job (BASIC and FORTRAN, both
> learned years before I was hired as a programmer).
Computer Programming, no matter where picked up, is Computer
Programming. Making different rules based on _where_ it is learned is
horribly unintuitive. It's the type of thing that, if in a gaming system,
earns that gaming system sarcastic comments.
> Dentistry is not practiced as a hobby. Your ability to perform dental work
> is part of PS: Dentistry, thus there is no need for a separate Dentistry
> Skill to stand alongside Electronics and Mechanics.
Right. I'd agree, but only because dental work isn't really
useful outside of a Professional Dentist. And all dentists would have
some related KSs as a result of extensive schooling.
> I agree with this paragraph, though I'm a bit surprised you didn't require
> SCI: Mathematics for the accountant. It seems consistent with the other
> things you seem to feel are necessary as "support Skills".
While potentially useful, it really isn't necessary. Accounting
doesn't use most of the higher level mathematics covered by SS:
Matematics. Although Lightning Calculator would be quite useful.
> Your skill level at a given job should be primarily determined by your
> Skill Roll in that Skill, not by how many related Skills you can tack onto
> it. I say that Dr. Tooth (PS: Dentist 13-) is a better dentist than Dr.
> Gum (PS: Dentist 11-). You say (I think) that Dr. Tooth is better at
> office procedure and business-related aspects of his practice, but that the
> doctors' levels of medical expertise cannot be measured except in terms of
> a Science and a [presently] non-existent DEX-based Skill.
And I've backed down from this on dentistry. Note, however, Dr.
Gum may have a specialty PS: Oral Surgeon that will allow him to be better
at certain parts of dentistry. Dr. Tooth, attempting oral surgery, will
be at a minus to his roll compared to Dr. Gum.
> PS: Writer, SFX Journalist (or Speechwriter or Novelist)
>
> Yes, I am well aware that these are different disciplines, but not so
> different they can't be lumped together under the umbrella of Writer.
> There's only one Animal Handler Skill, but you can define it as applicable
> to almost any species of animal.
But only for one species. You'd have to add another purchase of
the skill for another species. (IIRC).
Specializing PSs will help for the more specialized disciplines.
There are different things involved with PS: Novelist than with PS: RPG
Sourcebook Author.
> Again, take PS: Entrepreneur and define it as applicable to your particular
> business, if all it's going to cover is the business-related aspects of
> your profession.
Well, it's gonna cover Entrepeneurship in general. Take a KS or
PS in the area if you like, but the PS: Entrepreneur is really redundant.
> I am not against the introduction of new Skills (or Powers or any other
> options) if there's truly a gap that needs to be filled. I'm against the
> rampant proliferation of a separate Skill for every conceivable profession,
> sport, and handicraft. The Hero System is meant to be as generic as
> possible at the base level. You can create a wide variety of things using
> the existing building blocks. New blocks shouldn't be added unless there's
> no [easy or sensible] way of modeling the desired ability already. You
> don't need a rectangular block if two squares will do the job just as well.
I see the point. Do you see mine on more specialized PSs where
appropriate and certain skills that have value outside of the profession
being separate. (Computer Programming, Combat Driving, Combat Piloting,
Forensic Medicine, Mechanics, Electronics and others in the BBB plus
Teaching, Writing, and maybe a few others not in the book.)
> Shadowing, Deduction and, if you like, Investigation. My way, all five men
> (sorry, persons) get PS: Private Investigator and John gets PS:
> Entrepreneur as well. Your way, John gets PS: P.I. and the employees
Again, the PS: Entrepreneur is unecessary unless he is an expert
on setting up a business in general. PS: P.I. is enough to set up a P.I.
business. However, Bureaucratics might be nice to signify he's better at
that sort of stuff.
> get...what? PS: P.I. with a Limitation? Concealment, Shadowing and
> Deduction, plus the license Perk, but no PS Skill? How can they not have
> the PS Skill -- they're qualified to do the job, and they're doing it. It
> doesn't make sense to say a person isn't fully qualified to do a job
> (entitled to a PS, in other words) unless he's also capable of starting and
> running his own business in that field. A PS gives you the ability to Do A
> Job, not necessarily Run A Company.
It gives both if that can be considered part of the job. Someone
with a high PS: Food Service Worker can probably start his own pizza
joint, but may be better off picking up some related KSs.
> Doctors in private practice should have PS: Entrepreneur; if a doctor just
> works at a hospital, he doesn't need it.
But even a doctor in a hospital will be dealing with a lot of
paperwork and business decisions. Just watch ER. ;) Some will have
Bureacratics, of course.
> I'm not sure what you mean by that first sentence; you aren't quoting. If
> you mean it includes the ability to use job-related equipment (operating an
> oil rig), that supports my point. I assume, then, that's not what you meant.
It includes the ability unless it is important enough out of the
profession to cost.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:19:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 46
> > But a KS doesn't give one ability, it gives one knowledge. And
> > the study of teaching (Pedantics?) is a knowledge all of its own. This
> > is a place for a new PRE-based skill, based off of Acting, Conversation,
> > Oratory, etc.
>
> Nah... Oratory is just a very good complimentary skill roll for PS: Teacher
> (my dad was good at that :). Acting might be useful for the "wacky" type
> of teacher. Conversation tends to be a one-on-one skill, not so good in
> the classroom.
Actually, as I was pointing out, it is similar to these skills in
mechanics of using PRE, but separate enough to be its own skill. You can
attempt to teach without it, but won't really help much more than a
textbook. And anyone can read from a textbook. (Well, almost anyone.)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:24:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 48
> The difference is in what we think the prerequisite skill covers, and in
> whether or not, as a result of that coverage (or lack thereof) you have to
> go out and make up new Skills to cover the most central job-related tasks.
> Dave buys PS: Firefighter. In order to be effective on the job, does he
> need to create a Firefighting Skill to go with it?
nope. But he'll need Paramedic and perhaps (if you require it) a
TF: Breathing Gear. Maybe a few other skills, but I can't think of them
now. Certainly Mechanics might be helpful.
> Ed buys PS:
> Photographer, but not the [non-existent] Photography Skill. Oops! Does
> this mean Dave, with no knowledge of business practices, can start and run
> a photography studio, but that he *doesn't* know how to take
> professional-quality pictures?
Nope, Photography is only really important in the profession. I
might include a KS or SS: Photography for particularly artist-type
photographers. (We need a new skill category, related to Science Skill,
called Art Skill.)
> >Right. So someone with PS: Trial Lawyer could argue in court, but without KS:
> >Law he may have no clue what the heck he is arguing about or truly understand
> >how the law works!
>
> I agree. But you've just described the purchase of a related KS, not the
> creation of a new Litigation Skill. You handled that by buying PS: Trial
> Lawyer instead of PS: Lawyer. I have no problem at all with this one, it's
> exactly what I'm suggesting should be done.
Actually, being good at litigating would be a matter of Persuasion
and Oratory, both separate skills.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:30:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 49
Some good points, in general.
> You want a classic definition? Liberals advocate changes to the system,
> while conservatives resist change. This definition has gone mostly by
> the wayside.
True.
> A more modern application: Liberals tend to favor higher taxation and
> income redistribution in the name of fairness and level playing fields,
> and support a more lenient or flexible view of personal conduct
> standards. Conservatives talk of stricter moral and personal
> restrictions in the name of family values and strengthening of the
> moral fiber of civilization, while supporting fewer assaults on personal
> and corporate finances. In practice, though, there are few modern
> politicians that fall into either of these categories.
>
> As you asked only about "liberals" and "conservatives", I'll save my
> "libertarian" diatribe for another time. (Personal freedom plus
> financial freedom)
Good points, but I may be able to give some better explination.
Instead of seeing politics on one axis, look at it on two
One involves the trade-off between Freedom and Equality. The
other involves the trade-off between Freedom and Order.
In general, a Conservative will prefer Order over Freedom and
Freedom over Equality. A Liberal will desire Equality over Freedom and
Freedom over Order. A socialistic/populistic society, in general, will be
Order and Equality both over Freedom. Libertarians like Freedom over both
Equality and Order.
This is, of course, an abstracted view. I got it in my Freshman
American Government class at Northwestern, and I think I went and sold the
damn book. (Silly me. I keep them now for reference.) Interestingly
enough, most of the people I know fall closer to the Libertarean ideal
than anything else.
> might tend toward different points on the political chart (which, by the
> way, is not a straight line, folks).
Too true. I'm still trying to figure out where a Pure Democracy
and a True Communism would fall. They have radically different popular
conceptions, but in reality are incredibly similar. And both are probably
equaly impossible in any society of more than one person.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:32:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Holsters
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 50
> > Here are some of the holsters with applicable modifiers based on the type.
> >I'll say up front that this is all intended to be *optional* stuff for people
> >wanting this level of detail. It obviously is going to work better in Heroic-
> >level games than Superheroic ones. ;) These are also straight from my notes,
> >so the stats are subject to change.
>
> Looks cool, and looks like yet one more reason for me to buy this book.
> I do have one question, though: I noticed that the Fast Draw modifiers
> were all in increments of +5 (to +15). Why so large? Do these holsters
> really affect the ability that much?
Look at the chart again. The spacing was messed up, but the
column under FD modifier was actually STR modifier. The second to last
column was FD modifier.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:35:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 51
> Aryan Man was not in fact shown as bad. A 'liberal' would make him a
> vile villain, not give him a code of honor and make him someone trying to
> be a hero. Since Fascism/Naxi is at the far right (At least on the same
> rather inaccurate scale that put the Soviet Union/Communism on the far
> left), a liberal would have used 'The People's Hero' a firm believer in
> Communism trying to be a hero.
Good point on "The Aryan." He really is a handle because he isn't
the stereotype. He may have mistaken ideals, but he comes across as a
"good guy". How to handle him as Heroes. Also, note that many Neo-Nazis
wouldn't like this guy for his views as well. Does he have any friends?
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo attach1.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @attach1.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.81
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 52
---GoldRushG wrote:
>
> will tell you the speed of the vehicle that bounces back the strongest signal.
> That vehicle is generally (in tthis order): the one with the largest mass of
> metal (big rigs are easier to "lock on to" than Fieros), the closest (the car
> 1/4 mile away will bbounce a much stronger signature than the car 1 mile away)
> or the fastest (all things being equal).
>
> Mark @ GRG
>
Geee... so that's why the troopers always nabbed me in my rig instead of
the morons doin' 120 mph.
And here I thought it was because I was the only one they could catch.
;>
===
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:39:54 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 54
<< Shouldn't that be discriminatory? As built, all you get is "That's Fast"
or
something like that. >>
Actually I meant "speed" as in "MPH/KPH." It wouldn't be disriminatory
because it cannot tell one vehicle from another... only the speed that the
vehicle with the strongest "signature" is traveling at.
<< Also, why make it a sense? Does it go off by itself? >>
Yes, actually. It can be manually turned "on" and "off," or simply left on,
constantly displaying and updating the speed of the signature vehicle.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo30.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo30.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.74
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:41:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 53
<< The system does not allow for it. >>
Sure it does. "Anything is possible with Hero System." :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:43:01 EDT
To: bob.greenwade@klock.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Holsters
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 55
<< I noticed that the Fast Draw modifiers were all in increments of +5 (to
+15). Why so large? Do these holsters really affect the ability that much?
>>
Did I mislabel the order of the modifiers? Those are the STR mods for gun
retention (against Grabs). :/
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pilot04.cl.msu.edu from korthmat@cps.msu.edu server @pilot04.cl.msu.edu ip 35.9.5.14
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: United Appeal for the Dead
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:45:24 -0400
Subject: Re: CLOWN
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 56
> > Why do you say you shouldn't be pushing CLOWN? Do a lot of people
> on this
> > list hate them?
>
> A lot of the more, um, "serious gamers", think that CLOWN is an insult
> the genre. Personally, I think they're a hoot - but I've only actually
> used them once in a campaign.
They provide *wonderful* opportunities for bad puns. :)
Such as the time our team leader sent Merry Andrew a letter written with
black chalk on black paper, sealed inside a black envelope.
What, you've never heard of 'blackmail'? :) The team leader in question
had Merry Andrew as a hunted after that one...
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE/UBE will be crucified. ***
"_Troops_ is filmed on location with the men of the Imperial Forces.
All suspects are guilty--period. Otherwise, they wouldn't be suspect,
would they?" --Kevin Rubio's _Troops_
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo19.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo19.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.41
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:47:25 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 57
>RADAR "SPEED" GUN
>Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF Speedgun,
>Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest vehicle
>(-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
>AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
<< I suspect that the AE [on "SPEED" GUN] could be dropped, unless current
radar guns give a video "speed map" of each item in the range. >>
Uh.. no. That's why it has the Only registers largest or closest/fastest
vehicle
(-1/2)" Lim. How best to describe that? I suppose we could drop the Cone and
simply assume it has a "standard" 60 degree "field of vision." Thoughts?
<< For Flash Grenades, I like giving a -1/2 Limitation for having to be facing
the point of impact when it happens. >>
I see what you're saying here, BUT... Flash-bangs are so incredibly bright
that they have good effect on anyone nearby who has their eyes open. Again,
believe me. :) I've been subjected to them. But I'd be willing to modify them
to 1/2 effect if not facing it...
<< No comment on the rest. :-] >>
THIS is a good sign! <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:51:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Interpol
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 58
<< This is yet another section that I intend to set aside and use until the
L&O book comes out (you keep selling me on this thing, Mark). >>
Well, I stated several times on the list that L&O was going to have a lot of
stuff in it and not just 200 pt. cops. ;) I thought I would share a few of
those things with the list to put my proverbial money where my mouth was. I
figured if I anted up a bit, that folks would tend to believe me and rest a
little easier re: the "detailed cop" issue. ;)
<< Once again, though, I do have a comment: >>
<< Pardon my ignorance, but I'd thought that the US agency working with
Interpol was the FBI. I don't remember my source, and I'll defer to your
greater wisdom, but if you could clarify this (used to be the FBI, my source
was wrong, I'm obviously just plain confused again, or whatever), I'd
appreciate it. >>
Well, my source was a book titled "Interpol," published in the late '70s,
IIRC. It's quite possible that the USA's NCB has since been changed to the
FBI. However, that is not yet confirmed.
I wonder if Interpol has a web site? Hmm...
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:00:43 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: Kane476323 <Kane476323@aol.com&> Alurmic@aol.com
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: justice inc for sale
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 59
At 10:41 PM 4/16/98 EDT, Kane476323 wrote:
>i am auctioning off a complete boxed set of justice inc and several old V+V
>modules anyone interested please contact me.
Which V&V modules do you have?
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:02:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: bastet@iquest.net
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Interpol
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 60
>
> Well, my source was a book titled "Interpol," published in the late '70s,
> IIRC. It's quite possible that the USA's NCB has since been changed to the
> FBI. However, that is not yet confirmed.
>
> I wonder if Interpol has a web site? Hmm...
>
> Mark @ GRG
Yep. The official website is at
http://193.123.144.14/interpol-pr/Index.html
It lists some sites for the NCB's as well.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:04:57 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 61
<< Two of their cities got a-bombed. ...bound to make some good mutant origins
>>
Hey, it worked for Godzilla. (I can hardly wait for that to come out!)
<< Their primary religion, Shinto, is shamanic in nature. >>
What do you mean by this, exactly? I'm just curious, as we';re doing a LOT
of work on the4 Sengoku magic system to reflect Shinto and esoteric Buddhism
as historically as we can (in a fantasy game).
<< Minority groups in Japan -- I know there are some, and that like >>
In Japan, *every* group other than "Japanese" is a minority. ;) Some of the
minority groups I know of off hand include: Korean, Chinese, et al (other
nationalities). I don't recall the term for them, but the people of mixed race
(half Japanese) are all but ostracized in Japan. Another VERY minority group
are the Ainu (or Ebisu, the aboriginal inhabitants of Japan; similar to our
Native Americans but even worse off), who actually are found almost totally in
small numbers on Hokkaido now.
<< f)Religious breakdown, with a special focus on the 'gaming' aspects >>
This would be a great section, I agree!
<< Fringe culture. What's the Japanese equivalent of UFO nuts, militia >>
Elvis fans. :)
<< All good ideas. Perhaps also a list of common names would be handy... >>
I was going to suggest folks check out the Sengoku plug--in for our list of
names, but I realize now that those names were specifically reasearched as
"old" (read: historical) names, and many are not in use today. In fact, one of
our Japanese readers laughed out loud (I'm told) when they read some of the
names on the list. "What's funny?" they were asked.are OLD names. Nobody uses
these names anymore <LOL>" AHA! I knew we were doing something right! ;)
<< I could write one on Korea in my sleep, if I could ever get the time and
patience to write it all down. >>
How about historic Korea? Say, 16th century Korea? If you're interested,
drop me a line (after checking out our Submission Guidelines, natch). ;)
<< I'm hoping Sengoku will do Japan justice for the classical period. I should
have joined their mailing list too take a look at how well it's team knew
their stuff; but I didn't. Oh well. (Here's were I imagine Mark @ GRG will
tell me I still can or something. :) ) >>
[In best Beavis voice] Uhh.. huh huh. Uhhh... You still can... or
something. Huh huh...
Seriously, the Sengoku list is still going, as is the Usagi Yojimbo list
(there's some subscriber crossover there). If you want to subscribe to either,
send a request to sengoku-request@dryland.mandarin.org or UYrpg-
request@dryland.mandarin.org. You'd be welcomed there. All of you would.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.2.64
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:14:13 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
CC: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com&>
Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: More supplement reviews
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 62
Lizard wrote:
> At 10:56 AM 4/15/98 -0700, Brian Wong wrote:
>
> > Let's just hope that if anyone ever did it they actually had a clue
> >on asia, rather than just learned it all from a Wolverine comic and a
> bunch of
> >anime movies.
> >
> >
> You mean those AREN'T historically accurate sources???
Now they tell us........
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:16:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 64
> << Two of their cities got a-bombed. ...bound to make some good mutant origins
> >>
>
> Hey, it worked for Godzilla. (I can hardly wait for that to come out!)
I'm looking forward to it also, the commercials have been pretty amusing.
> names, but I realize now that those names were specifically reasearched as
> "old" (read: historical) names, and many are not in use today. In fact, one of
> our Japanese readers laughed out loud (I'm told) when they read some of the
> names on the list. "What's funny?" they were asked.are OLD names. Nobody uses
> these names anymore <LOL>" AHA! I knew we were doing something right! ;)
I would still be interested in seeing this. What's the download address?
> Seriously, the Sengoku list is still going, as is the Usagi Yojimbo list
> (there's some subscriber crossover there). If you want to subscribe to either,
> send a request to sengoku-request@dryland.mandarin.org or UYrpg-
> request@dryland.mandarin.org. You'd be welcomed there. All of you would.
I'll have to join. It'd be interesting to see what's up. Part of the
reason I've enjoyed taking Japanese so much is my teacher throws in little
bits about Japanese history and culture, such as why they drive on the
left there.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo web2.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @web2.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.68
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 63
---Brian Wong wrote:
>
> > << Puma could contribute much for it yes!>>
> >
> > That depends. Is this indicative of your typical writing style?
>
> I think it's just that 'Puma' has decided to post 'in character' to
> this mailing list; whereas the rest of us post 'out of character'. Trust me,
> you don't want to see me write up my posts 'in character as Cosmo Lass'. :)
> It'd confuse even me. :)
>
Is it just me or does anyone else visualize Zathras (from Babylon 5) when
reading Puma's posts. ;>
No offense, Keith!
===
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:25:31 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 66
I've noticed a trend about who posts certain kinds of comments about my own
messages. :/ ::sigh::
<< Well if Radar guns are _that_ inaccurate, I don't see how the cops get away
with using them! :-) >>
Because they *are* accurate if you know what it is reading. An ooficer has
to be able to describe in court how they operate (if asked) and how he came to
determine that the vehicle in question was the one registered on the speed
gun. You see, that is all part of the KS: Radar/Speed Gun skill. ;) In any
case, if you know how they work and how to use it, they are extremely
accurate.
<< I can accept your explanation of how radar guns 'work' in real life, but
how does the above game mechanic fail? >>
It doewsn't fail, per se' but I think it can be better described. I'm not
even suggesting m posted method is the best. For insatnce, I have doubts about
whether AE: Cone is needed since someone else posted their comment about it.
<< Radar detects objects by bouncing electromagnetic waves off them, and
reading the return. >>
I thought it emitted radio waves? Are those the same as EM? Hmm... Anyway,
yours is a simplification.
"Speed guns" work by emitting a steady/repeated series of radio signals.
Those radio waves all bounce off of objects they strike (even the gound) and
are returned back toward the gun. Now, some objects will "reflect" or "bounce"
more of the original signal than others. For instance, a big semi will return
a larger signal than will a Lamborghini. Also, metal returns a much larger
portion of the signal than will plastic or asphalt. That's where the size and
material come into play.
The returning signals are all received by a passive receiver. The time it
takes for the signal to return basically indicates distance to the target.
Distance weakens the signal somewhat. The *difference* between the length of
time for each successive signal to return is factored in and the little
computer inside is able to calculate the speed at which the target is moving
(either toward or away from the gun). That is the doppler effect.
Now, the gun can only determine (and display) the speed of one item at a
time (unlike the radar and tracking systems used by F-16s and F-15s, which do
this with several targets at once!). So, the unit will register and display
either the strongest signal (i.e., signal from the largest or closest vehicle)
or the fastest vehicle (most rapid changes in the received signals).
Clear as mud? :)
Now, there are ways to throw off radar, like putting big wads of aluminum
foil in your hubcaps, but I assure you that those tricks are not fool proof.
While they may mess up the unit's ability to register an accurate speed, a
trained operator will *know* something is afoot and may (depending on the
jurisdiction and probable cause laws there) pull you over on those grounds
alone and subject you to a vehicle inspection! <LOL>
<< If it's limited to a cone, fine, limit it to a cone (I assume that ranged
sense are not 'beams' but roughly 180 degree coverage - so any ranged detect
that works in a cone would get a limitation, not an area effect advantage!).
>>
That's a very good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
<< To wit; Radar sense bounces radio waves off a target. I assume Police Radar
Guns do the same, if somewhat imperfectly. So why does Radar Sense fail as the
'sense of choice'? >>
Well, on the surface it seems the obvious choice. And it may well be. :D
I'm just considering all the options here. If we did go with Radar Sense, then
it would emit an active radar signal, which could be picked up (by PCs or
radar detectors!). Hmm. I like that...
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.1.64
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:26:24 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 65
Mike Christodoulou wrote:
> At 10:15 AM 4/16/98 -0400, Chris Hartjes wrote:
> >Do we *really* have to talk about politics. Are there no other topics
> >that can be used for personal assaults and long-winded posts that
> >degenerate into "my way or the highway"? I fail to see what politcs has
> >to do with Champions. Being a Canadian, I find the whole US political
> >system a constant source of amusement and I keep politics out of my
> >campaigns. Nothing ruins a good discussion more than politics.
> >
>
> Just because *you* don't have the stomach or interest for politics
> doesn't mean that the rest of us can't use it as a useful role-playing
> tool.
>
> P.S. I sure as hell hope, for the sake of your country, that you
> don't actually vote.
>
> ======================
> ==================================================================================================
That'll show him insult him and his beliefs! Prove your the better man by
shouting louder.Good grief, no wonder other countries laugh at us....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.2.64
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:35:49 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: BILL SVITAVSKY <NBYMAIL11@mln.lib.ma.us>
CC: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: What are your favorite Hero-published characters?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 67
BILL SVITAVSKY wrote:
> As I've mentioned recently in the published villain & Champions
> Universe threads, I'm one of those seeming few who don't use
> any published villains, organizations, etc. in my games, preferring
> to use my own material.
>
> I do like to read through the published material now and then.
> I'm sure those of you who regularly use it know and appreciate
> the characters better than I do. I'm curious to hear what
> characters people really like. In the comics newsgroups, people
> can rattle on endlessly about the concepts and doings of their
> favorite heroes & villains; who catches Champions fans fancy?
>
> To me, a lot of the most prominent characters don't seem all that
> inspired. Dr. Destroyer is a thinly disguised Dr. Doom, Mechanon
> is Ultron, and even Foxbat (whom I like) is only a few steps
> removed from Ambush Bug (maybe not an imitation, but a conscious
> effort to create one of that type.) What Champs characters stand
> out on their own? (I'm talking concept, not rules construction.)
>
> While I really don't know these characters all that well, I do
> think Black Paladin and the Slug are pretty good concepts; they'd
> make passable villains in published comics. I also liked the
> woman nobody noticed in the Horror Enemies (I think) book.
I had a wierd sentimental attachment to the Geodesics I ran them as a
weak but determined team who desired respect along with their money. The
kept adding (and occasionally subtracting) new low-powered villians to
their banner, eventually numbering 12.THEN they started to whoop
ass.....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:37:53 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 68
<< As for using against supers - well, how effective should a piece of
equipment that you can go out an buy really be against them? >>
Well, a super without resistant defenses can be seriously screwed over by a
shot to the head by a .380 auto. Those go for about $325 these days... :/
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m7.sprynet.com from chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com server @m7.sprynet.com ip 165.121.2.64
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:38 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: "Champ's Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Favorite moments
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 69
So what are your favorite moments in Champions?
The third adventure in my friend's "Strong Arm" campaign had mine. Our
characters were the security team for Stronghold, under the direct
supervision of PRIMUS. Being only two players we each played 2
characters, Mine; Vanguard and Protector respectively and my Brother's;
Iron Eagle and some guy whose name escapes me but was a lot like
marvel's Constrictor. Anyway it turned out that one of the Silver
Avengers who was to be our liason was i believe a Vampire. (The GM left
for college shortly after the campaign started and it died...) any how,
he had taken over the robots and security guards and turned them against
us and we had taken them down (mostly anyway). He was really tough and
we were in bad shape, then he began a sililoquy about what he was going
to do to us and the elevator carrying one of the security robots was
descending to our level.
as the doors opened the villain kept on yakking, he didn't even look
back. Since it was a hover robot and not a clanker it made no noise.
Protector yelled "Golden Avenger! Thank God you're here!" the villain
looked back in shock (He had all but killed Avenger earlier). Pete's
"Constrictor" character grabbed the villain and tossed him in the
elevator, the doors closed and we ran like rabbits....
We still yell "Golden Avenger! Thank God you're Here!" when we play.
Chad Nostalgic (er, Riley)
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:56:27 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 71
> Dave buys PS: Firefighter. In order to be effective on the job, does he
> need to create a Firefighting Skill to go with it?
<< nope. But he'll need Paramedic and perhaps... a TF: Breathing Gear. >>
Eh??
<< Maybe a few other skills, but I can't think of them now. >>
How about: Climbing; KS: HazMat; KS: Fires/Fire Suppression; CL: +1 w/Ax
<G>; PS: EMT (some are); RL: +2 w/Hose <G>; TF: Large Ground Vehicles (semi-
trucks, hook 'n ladder trucks, etc.). Just tossing out some ideas.
<< Actually, being good at litigating would be a matter of Persuasion and
Oratory, both separate skills. >>
IMO, those would be good complimentary skills, but I would imagine that
litigation requires a lot more knowledge of law and legal precedent than
flattery and nice a speaking voice (an over-simplification, I know).
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:57:12 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 70
><< As for using against supers - well, how effective should a piece of
>equipment that you can go out an buy really be against them? >>
A 44 magnum is dangerous against anybody, super or not. Get really gross
and pick up a 50 cal sniper rifle, You can buy those, it's a 3d6 killing
attack with a +2 stun Mulit, according to Dark Champs. Any super's thats
going to laugh off 11 body 55 stun on the average won't be bothered by
normal weapons. Just think on a great roll... 16 body 112 stun, that should
get most supers attention...
Then you can get into the specialty ammo, the so called cop killers, they
hit like that but are AP... scarry isn't it? Then there are the Teflon
coated, spent Uraninum core NATO 223 rounds. 1/4 inch plate steel doesn't
even slow them down...
It get's even worse, so yes you could have a group of normals with normal
stuff that could hurt or even kill a super.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo22.mx.aol.com from pat10355@aol.com server @imo22.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.66
From: Pat10355 <Pat10355@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:59:24 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Favorite moments
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 72
<<So what are your favorite moments in Champions?>>
One of my favorites was playing the Hunter, a normal archer with gadget
arrows, when his hero team battled an evil cult led by supernatural-themed
villains.
They had captured Psyche, the team psionicist, and the rest of the Minutemen
tracked them down to rescue her. A huge battle erupts, and one of the
villains, Plague, threatens the Hunter.
But the team had encountered Plague's biotoxins earlier, and our team
scientist had devised an antidote. The Hunter broke one of the vials over an
arrowhead and warned Plague to give up. The villain laughed, of course, so the
Hunter shot him.
Cured him of his own powers, temporarily anyway, and put him out of the fight.
:)
Patrick Sweeney
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:02:50 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Japanese names
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 73
<< I would still be interested in seeing this. What's the download address?
>>
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg
Just click on the Sengoku cover. While you're at our page, drop by the San
Angelo site, too. ;)
The direct link to the file escapes me, but it is listed on the
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg/sengoku/sengoku.htm page.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:05:49 EDT
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 74
<< my teacher throws in little bits about Japanese history and culture, such
as why they drive on the left there. >>
Let me guess (because I honestly don't know): Back in the days of the
Sengoku-jidai and Tokugawa-jidai, samurai and others would walk the relatively
narrow dirt "highways" (such as the Tokkaido). In order to prevent scabbards
from striking each other as samurai passed one another, they would walk to
their left... thus keeping the swords on opposite sides of the road?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:09:50 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 75
<< Then you can get into the specialty ammo, the so called cop killers,...
Then there are the Teflon coated... >>
The "cop-killers" generally refer to the teflon-coated rounds. Just FYI. ;)
<< 1/4 inch plate steel doesn't even slow them down... >>
I have doubts as to whether 1/4 inch plate steel would slow down a *regular*
.223 round. :D
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:13:27 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Favorite moments
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 76
While running from an enemy encampment a guard in a tower was taking pot
shots at our two heros, Col Action, a CPT America type, and Soldjer, a super
solider who uses guns. Soldjer had lost his weapons during the adventure,
but had picked up an Uzi. He turned and fired a single shot at the guard.
Upon figuring the range the weapon minus, and the partial cover the GM
delared "you need a 4 or less" LOL!!!
I rolled... a three... caught him dead between the eyes.
Col Action turned and calmly said... "Nice shot."
Sometimes the dice like you.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:14:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
cc: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 77
> Let me guess (because I honestly don't know): Back in the days of the
> Sengoku-jidai and Tokugawa-jidai, samurai and others would walk the relatively
> narrow dirt "highways" (such as the Tokkaido). In order to prevent scabbards
> from striking each other as samurai passed one another, they would walk to
> their left... thus keeping the swords on opposite sides of the road?
Pretty much, but not the complete story. Samurai did walk on the left to
prevent their swords from clashing. Because the Samurai did, so did
everyone else. So even after the samurai were gone it was custom and has
stayed that way.
May favorite story was about Japan's initial troubles trading. Since
silver was more rare than gold, it was what they used in trading (Both the
words for bank and for market have the word silver in them). Chinese
traders would come to Japan to trade gold for silver and both thought they
got the better of the deal. Once Japan became more open to trading that
changed fast.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo23.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo23.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.67
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:14:38 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Interpol
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 78
<< http://193.123.144.14/interpol-pr/Index.html >>
And there you have it! :)
Thanks for posting that! I'm going to go have a look right now.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:26:23 -0500 (CDT)
X-Sender: mlnunn@blue.net
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 79
"cop-killers" generally refer to the teflon-coated rounds. Just FYI. ;)
Oh yeah... I knew that... :-0
>
><< 1/4 inch plate steel doesn't even slow them down... >>
>
> I have doubts as to whether 1/4 inch plate steel would slow down a *regular*
>.223 round. :D
Oh, it will slow it down, it won't stop it but it will slow it down. Those
NATO things, Gee... we shot up an old 113 in training, we each had 3 of the
NATO Rounds, they went on one side came out the other and buried in the
sand. It got my attention. We were told that one of those wouldn't even
notice that we had on Kevlars and Flak vests. Makes you feel real safe.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine, The Superhero RPG Fanzine...vist our recently updated web site...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
"You have never lived until you have almost died.
And for those who fight for it,
life has a flavor the protected never know"
- anonymous
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net from cyprimus@swbell.net server @mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net ip 151.164.60.103
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 05:44:33 -0500
From: Kirby Jones <cyprimus@swbell.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: test, please ignore
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 81
test 1
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net from cyprimus@swbell.net server @mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net ip 151.164.60.103
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:27:54 -0500
From: Kirby Jones <cyprimus@swbell.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: test, please ignore
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 82
> test 2
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:09:23 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 87
>> I am not against the introduction of new Skills (or Powers or any other
>> options) if there's truly a gap that needs to be filled. I'm against the
>> rampant proliferation of a separate Skill for every conceivable profession,
>> sport, and handicraft. The Hero System is meant to be as generic as
>> possible at the base level. You can create a wide variety of things using
>> the existing building blocks. New blocks shouldn't be added unless there's
>> no [easy or sensible] way of modeling the desired ability already. You
>> don't need a rectangular block if two squares will do the job just as well.
>
> I see the point. Do you see mine on more specialized PSs where
>appropriate and certain skills that have value outside of the profession
>being separate. (Computer Programming, Combat Driving, Combat Piloting,
>Forensic Medicine, Mechanics, Electronics and others in the BBB plus
>Teaching, Writing, and maybe a few others not in the book.)
Yes, I do, and if it had been presented this way in this first place I'd
never have felt any need to question it. The rules have always allowed you
to define a PS as more specialized; that is, you've always had the option
to buy PS: Novelist or PS: RPG
Sourcebook Author in stead of the more general PS: Writer if you decided
that better fit your character concept. No rules additions or
modifications required there.
And I have no problem with the idea that there may be more Skills,
primarily associated with a profession (like Teaching) that are potentially
useful and should be made available to characters outside that profession.
My complaint all along was your requirement to force *professionals* as
well as amateurs to purchase these newly-created Skills. If as a result of
Bruce's ruling you no longer feel that's necessary, I am entirely satisfied.
> Again, the PS: Entrepreneur is unecessary unless he is an expert
>on setting up a business in general. PS: P.I. is enough to set up a P.I.
>business. However, Bureaucratics might be nice to signify he's better at
>that sort of stuff.
If you don't want the character to be able to set up *any* kind of
business, you can limit the focus to a certain type of business. Like any
other PS, Entrepreneur can be specialized if you want. Earlier examples
given in this thread *might* have suggested, for example, that a master
chef could use his PS to set up a four-star restaurant but he'd be no good
at making the food unless he also bought a Cooking Skill. In that case,
I'd has argued for PS: Restauranteur as a more specific form of PS:
Entrepreneur, to describe a person who can set up and managae a restaurant
business but can't cook.
And, no I don't think PS: Entrepreneur is usually a requirement for a
professional in any given field. I certainly don't make every character
with a PS take that one as well. I only brought it up in the first place
as a way or [more accurately, I thought] describing those professional
characters in the earlier examples whose talents all revolved around the
managing of their respective business, without being able to actually do
the central job tasks. That, too, has been resolved now.
>> A PS gives you the ability to Do A Job, not necessarily Run A Company.
>
> It gives both if that can be considered part of the job.
Yes it does, which is why I qualified the above statement with "necessarily".
Am I correct in believing we're both happy with the outcome of all this?
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:15:45 -0500
To: Champions Listserv <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 88
At 12:24 AM 4/17/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> The difference is in what we think the prerequisite skill covers, and in
>> whether or not, as a result of that coverage (or lack thereof) you have to
>> go out and make up new Skills to cover the most central job-related tasks.
>> Dave buys PS: Firefighter. In order to be effective on the job, does he
>> need to create a Firefighting Skill to go with it?
>
> nope. But he'll need Paramedic and perhaps (if you require it) a
>TF: Breathing Gear. Maybe a few other skills, but I can't think of them
>now. Certainly Mechanics might be helpful.
He will certainly need Paramedic and othe Skills, nor did I suggest
otherwise. But PS: Firefighter *does* allow him to fight fires; the PS
covers his central job task. In the abovd example I'd say that the use of
breathing gear is a job requirement and thus covered by the PS.
> Nope, Photography is only really important in the profession. I
>might include a KS or SS: Photography for particularly artist-type
>photographers. (We need a new skill category, related to Science Skill,
>called Art Skill.)
I like the notion of Art Skills, or perhaps Art/Craft Skills.
Damon
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:09:47 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Holsters
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 90
At 05:33 AM 4/17/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: (L&O) Holsters
>
>> I do have one question, though: I noticed that the Fast Draw modifiers
>> were all in increments of +5 (to +15). Why so large? Do these holsters
>> really affect the ability that much?
>
> Look at the chart again. The spacing was messed up, but the
>column under FD modifier was actually STR modifier. The second to last
>column was FD modifier.
Quite right. Correction noted. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:17:42 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 92
At 01:47 AM 4/17/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
>>RADAR "SPEED" GUN
>>Detect Speed, Sense, Ranged, AE Cone (768"), Telescopic (+14), OAF Speedgun,
>>Concentrate (1/2 DCV), Only registers largest or closest/fastest vehicle
>>(-1/2), Doppler Radar Effect (-1/2)
>>AP: 82 Real Cost: 25 Price: $1,500
>
><< I suspect that the AE [on "SPEED" GUN] could be dropped, unless current
>radar guns give a video "speed map" of each item in the range. >>
>
> Uh.. no. That's why it has the Only registers largest or closest/fastest
vehicle
>(-1/2)" Lim. How best to describe that? I suppose we could drop the Cone and
>simply assume it has a "standard" 60 degree "field of vision." Thoughts?
That's how I've built radar guns in the past.
><< For Flash Grenades, I like giving a -1/2 Limitation for having to be
facing
>the point of impact when it happens. >>
>
> I see what you're saying here, BUT... Flash-bangs are so incredibly bright
>that they have good effect on anyone nearby who has their eyes open. Again,
>believe me. :) I've been subjected to them. But I'd be willing to modify
them
>to 1/2 effect if not facing it...
Nah. Now that I think of it, half effect (if any) when facing away from
the source should probably be a default characteristic of Flash vs the
Sight Group. It makes up (partially) for how much more powerful of an
effect it has than other forms of Flash.
><< No comment on the rest. :-] >>
>
> THIS is a good sign! <LOL>
Less so from me than for others on the list.... ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:18:19 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 89
Yes. Radio is a small subset of EM.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GoldRushG [SMTP:GoldRushG@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 2:26 AM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
>
>
> I thought it emitted radio waves? Are those the same as EM?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:23:34 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 94
At 09:39 PM 4/16/1998 -0500, Dataweaver wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> At 06:36 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
>> >>It would be really BIG sourcebook!
>> >
>> >Too large. Anything over 200 pages is a hard sell, as a sourcebook. And
>> >each genre has sub-genres and they all seem to follow entirely
>> >different 'world assumptions'. To do justice would take 400+ pages...
>>
>> Which, of course, would only work in Hero Plus.
>
>No, it wouldn't; not unless Hero Plus decides to lower its prices
>(hint...)
I don't see what that has to do with the practicality of a huge book in
print versus an equally huge book done electronically (especially since the
latter would still be around $10 cheaper even as a printout from a
three-disk set).
>> >> Maybe do several smaller ones.
>> >
>> >Pick up Kazei 5 when it comes out. BTW, if you want Gundam-style giant
>> >robot sci-fi, pick up Jovian Chronicles by Dream Pod 9. HERO to this
>> >point hasn't done well, IMHO, simulating the Giant Robot environment.
>> >Mayhap TUSV will remedy this; but we'll have to wait and see.
>>
>> As the author, I can tell you that it will help quite a bit
>> (especially since it started out as The Ultimate Giant Robot). However,
>> I don't think it's quite the kind of fix that you're looking for of this
>> problem. The best situation would probably be if someone who was a
>> big-time Giant Robots fan (bigger than me, at least -- and I'm not
>> exactly a slouch) were to use TUSV and the old Robot Warriors game as a
>> starting point to build a Fifth Edition genre book for it.
>
>Mecha Hero, that is; Anime Hero is simply too broad of a subject.
Yes, Mecha Hero (or Giant Robot Hero, or MechHero if you don't mind
"Golden Arches" jokes) is what I was referring to here.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:27:39 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 98
At 11:41 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Bob Greenwade writes:
>
>> You slipped again there, Rat. Block can be Aborted to. That means that
>> you *can*, as Rick said, wait until you know that someone is going to try
>> to attack you before deciding to Block.
>
>Read what Rick wrote again. He was describing the making of the Block roll
>*AFTER* the attacker makes his attack roll. In essence, allowing you to
>pick the action to which you abort after you know whether or not you will
>be hit, and by how much.
I did read it again. In fact, here it is again, posted from my quote of
it from your post:
>> Correct. The way block is written, the defender makes his roll
>> first. But it is a relatively simple step to have the attacker declare
>> his intent to attack, the defender states he will attempt to block the
>> attack, then have the attacker make his attack roll to see if a hit needs
>> to be blocked and if it needs to be blocked then see how hard it will be
>> to block it.
This quite clearly and explicitly states that the defender states his
intent to block (which is *not* the same thing as Rolling to see if it was
successful) *before* the attacker makes his attack roll.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:33:16 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 91
At 07:11 PM 4/16/1998 -0700, Rick Holding wrote:
>One thing. Find Weakness is not Int based, its just a plain 11-.
>Otherwise, pretty good.
Ah, right. OK, then the basis for this "accidental FW" would be a basic
11-.
> What about the person who already has find weakness? Give him an
>extra +2 perhaps?
No. This basic mechanic is to allow for that rare instance where
someone actually manages to do it by accident. I don't think a character
should be able to apply complementary Skills, Skill Levels, or any other
kind of bonus to something that basically happens by accident.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo bnllc2.blue.net from mlnunn@bnllc2.blue.net server @bnllc2.blue.net ip 206.65.217.254
Comments: Authenticated sender is <mlnunn@mail.blue.net>
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@bnllc2.blue.net>
Organization: Rising Force Publications
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:40:36 +0000
Subject: Re: How do I...
Reply-to: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
CC: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 163
Um... bullshit.
First, there are *NO* DU-cored .223 out there. They are all solid steel or
steel jacketed lead. The rounds of which you write are standard issue FMJ
or solid steel. DU is rarely used on the battlefield. It is expensive and
dangerous; tungsten-carbide has equivalent penetration characteristics, is
cheaper, and is not a contact poison. Besides, high density, high tensile
strength subcaliber penetrators are used in large bore weapons -- cannon --
not small arms.
Really, I will assume that you were present when I went to a 3 hour
training course on the proper handling and safety factors of using
SUC-Ammo. And heard something completely diffrent than I did?
Second, *ALL* military issue .223 are coated in Teflon, not for ballistic
penetration but to reduce barrel wear. In fact, the Teflon coating very
slightly *REDUCES* penetration of ballistic fabrics.
Again really? Looking at the label on the ammo box setting in my
closet, it says, Copper coated, 223. Hum... copper and teflon the same?
Third *ALL* steel or steel jacketed lead rounds are considered "light armor
piercing". They have very high velocities, and the steel construction
prevents deformation. In other words, they tend retain their energy
(penetrate armor) rather than dumping it into a target (do damage).
I was speaking in game terms, of AP useing Dark Champions as a guide
line.
"Herozine" Rising Force Publications "SUPER" RPG 'zine,
check out our web site at:
http://users.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:53:07 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 96
At 08:01 PM 4/16/1998 -0700, Rook wrote:
>Some example topics:
>
>1. Most other asians would view any Japanese hero as a villian by
>default. Covering this stryfe might be handy. It could easily shape the
>nature of many heroes and villians.
>
>2. Two of their cities got a-bombed. That bound to make some good mutant
>origins
>
>3. Their primary religion, Shinto, is shamanic in nature. Mystical
>heroes and villians would be good ideas.
>
>4. Big business is big there, this would affect the kinds of teams
>there.
>
>5. Japan is one of the asian countries that places a higher value on the
>group than the individual. A section could cover how this affects a Hero
>and a Villians motivations and actions could prove interesting. Despite
>what many may think; this way of thinking is VERY diferent from that of
>westerners and leads to actions which seem to us to be highly illogical.
>
>6. On that topic, a basic overview of notable cultural diferences and
>how best to handle roleplaying them if you yourself are not native to
>them would be very handy for most western players and GMs.
>
>> As for what I'd like --
>> a)Info on the different major cities in Japan, and their 'flavor'
>
>> b)The nature of government -- what is the equivalent of a 'senator'?
>
>> c)Note on the language -- the complex system of honorifics and
>
>> d)Minority groups in Japan -- I know there are some, and that like
>
>> f)Religious breakdown, with a special focus on the 'gaming' aspects
>
>> g)Fringe culture. What's the Japanese equivalent of UFO nuts, militia
>
> All good ideas. Perhaps also a list of common names would be handy
>and advice on how Japanese name their kids.
In addition to all of the above, I'd encourage giving Japanese supers a
"look and feel" like supers in Japanese TV, anime, manga, and other forms.
Kingdom of Champions did an excellent job of giving eminently (but mostly
not stereotypically) British NPC heroes; Champions of Nippon should have
the same attitude.
> Of course, for me; I'd prefer a book on asia in general over one on
>Japan. Or perhaps as well. I could write one on Korea in my sleep, if I
>could ever get the time and patience to write it all down. The rest of
>the region is familiar to me, but if I did it I'd want to do a lot
>research for it. To date I've yet to see anything for asia in a gaming
>book that did the region justice or in some way wasn't patronizing to
>one aspect or another.
I'm starting to feel encouraged for a Far East Enemies book. Mind you,
it wouldn't give anything like the detail you're asking for; it would be
merely an enabler for adventures in that area. My notes are for an Enemies
book with a few notes on politics and culture that would amount to about
3/4 page per country (if that much). I'm starting to suspect that this
would be a more successful book than I'd even thought originally.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:54:01 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 95
At 12:42 AM 4/17/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
><< if Godzilla *does* attack, how much force can they really muster? >>
>
> haven't you heard? Godzilla is foregoing Tokyo in favor of New York these
>days. The Japanese Defense Forces are downsizing in a big way since this
>latest development. ;)
Oh, that reminds me. Another thing that should be in the Japanese book
is the various ways of destroying the Tokyo radio tower...
And an update of Hach-U-Rui for 5th Edition... ;-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:54:21 -0700
To: CHAMP-L@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 93
At 01:10 AM 4/17/1998 EDT, GoldRushG wrote:
>> Well, I'm not going to manually edit all these things,
>
> Why not? I do.
As do I.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:05:09 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 100
-----Original Message-----
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 7:52 PM
Subject: How do I...
>Howdy Listers,
>
>I have a couple concepts I'm stumbling over and wondered how
>you all would build them.
>
>The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a
>NND (defence is not being grounded or Personal Immunity to
>electrical SFX attacks), AOE: Line, Continuous, reduced by
>range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or inexcessable).
>Here's my problem, a jolt from a taser should drop a normal
>in a single phase, 20 to 25 points of effect or 8d6 using
>the 3 "rule". That makes a standard taser a 100 AP power,
>reduced to around 57 real points (maybe more, any ideas on
>further limitations?). So my first question is, does
>this look right. My second question is, given a 60 AP/12 DC
>game, should a taser really be beyond what a beginning character
>should have?
>
Whoa... why do people insist on making electrical attacks NND? Sheesh. Why
would they be anything of the sort? You HAVE a defense for electricity. Its
called energy defense. If your armor is less conducive, you are effected
less by the electricity and yes, a thick jacket WILL protect you from a
taser..... sometimes. Do it this way instead, EB does stun only. Simple and
cheap. Viola.
Being grounded won't help you a damn bit with a taser because it has two
contact points. One emits and the other recieves, so to speak. When pressed
to your skin, the electricity, comes out, goes into your skin, then into the
second contact making it "ground". You get hurt no matter if you are wearing
rubber golashes or not.
And by the way, what WOULD be an NND then? Contact poisons, sonic attacks
that cause internal distress and pain, mental attacks that basically cause
nothing but pain, radiation which easily surpasses armor (though this would
also, I believe cause body or be a partial transform attack from healthy
person to person with radiation sickness (with a SLOW recovery), cryokinetic
or pyrokinetic attacks which warm or chill from the inside out. etc. , etc.
I know whether an attack is NND or not is up to the GM of the game but this
is just a pet peeve of mine. Electricity is energy that usually comes from
the outside to a person through appropriate defenses. Thick clothing will
protect from some electricity but not large amounts. Armor is effective if
it is less conductive to energy (i.e. iron and steel armor should have
a -1/4 to -1/2 disad on it (Limited Power:No protection against
electricity) depending on how often electricity is used as an attack in that
game world.)
>The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that
>allows for recovery every phase whether the character is acting
>or not. SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is
>"rebuilding" a host constantly. Basically it feeds energy back
>into the host organism. My basic leaning would be:
>
>a) Aid: No END Persistant Fully Invisible Uncontrolled v STUN and
> END both at once Only to Heal, a 27 AP cost per d6 (3 points).
> To simulate a normal would be 2d6 and then handle "healing"
> limits would need a +14 max for a total of 93 AP and 62 real
> points. This seems awfly expensive relitive to effect.
>b) SPEED equal to the characters base speed limited Only For
> Recoveries. I have no idea how limiting this should be but
> it would have to be rather extreme sence normal SPEED let you
> take every action in the game! Still, this almost feels,
> pricewise, farely reasonable.
>c) REC with say Continuous Uncontrolled advantages or some such.
> Honestly, some modifier to REC seems the cleanest, but I really
> am at a loss at to exactly what.
>
>Any othe ideas out there? Are these just things that don't model
>well, or are they too munchkiny? Any advise would be appreciated.
>
Buy the symbiote (with GM permission) as a follower and put a few levels of
shrinking on him to reduce his weight and say that he is carried by the main
character. Now this means that the symbiote can be HURT and must take damage
if main character is struck, usually, but you can buy separate powers for
symbiote and it be pretty cost effective.
Next suggestion, if your GM won't allow you to do the symbiote thing, buy
your original amount of Speed again (double it) but the second half of your
speed is bought with that Only for recoveries limitation (-2) and recover
every other round by buying a high recovery and buy regeneration or aid to
boot
.
>PAX,
>John
>
Robert Kemp
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:08:12 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 97
><< Gold Rush Games listening? >>
>Certainly.
><< Puma could contribute much for it yes!>>
>That depends. Is this indicative of your typical writing
style?
>Mark @ GRG
Um, No! ^_^; I actually have experience in writing.
I helped Wizards of the Cost make their Hero
Hero System conversion rules for "The Primal
Order" (the original ones weren't so hot, mine were
in the "Pawns" supplement). Actually got in the credits.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:26:33 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 122
-----Original Message-----
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: How do I...
><< The first is a taser. Near as I can tell, it should be a NND (defence
is
>not being grounded or Personal Immunity to electrical SFX attacks), AOE:
Line,
>Continuous, reduced by range, and Obvious Focus (either accessable or
>inexcessable). >>
>
> Okay, here I go in "reality-grounded cop equipment critic" mode. ;)
>
> Not being grounded is no reliable defense against a taser, IMO.
>
> The AE: Line isn't applicable because the taser can only hit one target,
not
>affect every potential target within the "line." Thos little dart-linke
barbs
>can only stick in one target at a time. ;)
>
> The taser is not Reduced by Range. Whethe the target is struck 3 feet
from
>the "gun" or 13 feet away, the damage will be the same. It *does* have a
>limited range, however (and that exact max limit is beyond my recollection
at
>the moment).
>
> The focus would, indeed be OAF. The gun itself is a focus, as is the line
>that runs from the gun to the barb. Cut the line and you stop the damage.
Now,
>if we're talking about stun guns, that's a different beast entirely. Those
>have "No Range," needing to be in direct contact with the target. ;)
>
> You should also add "1 Recoverable Charge," as the gun must be "reloaded"
>(the wires retracted and the barbs reset) to be fired again.
>
And make it a EB, stun only... hey... you Gold Rush guys seem to know your
Champions.... gosh, I hope you guys talk to Hero about doing some stuff
(that was a poor attempt at sarcasm and I hope to see 5th edition soon)
><< Here's my problem, a jolt from a taser should drop a normal in a single
>phase, >>
>
> NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT MEANT AS EDITORIALIZING OR INTENDED TO BE A
>POLITICIAL STATEMENT -- ONLY A STATEMENT OF FACTS AND OF GAME MECHANICS.
ANY
>OFFENSE TAKEN BY ANY PERSON WHO READS THIS IS PURELY UNINTENTIONAL; DO NOT
E-
>MAIL ME WITH FLAMES OR TRY TO ENGAGE ME IN DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT.
>
> *Should* is the operative word. To simulate the seemingly miraculous
effects
>of situations like the Rodney King incident, in which he was hit by a taser
>*twice* and was not completely incapacitated -- an affect normally only
>encountered with subjects under the influence of PCP or other narcotics or
the
>mentally ill -- you could to14- activation roll, or perhaps a Limitation
"14-
>Activation against enraged, metally ill or those under the influence of
>narcotics, -1/4" (just a suggestion).
>
I DON'T CARE ABOUT POLITICAL DEBATE... but can I argue with your
interpretation of the rules? Whether it effects the mentally ill or drugged
isn't a limitation of the device, its a power of the mentally ill person or
the drugs the drugged person is taking.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:29:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Japan Sourcebook (was Re: More supplement reviews)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 101
><< Their primary religion, Shinto, is shamanic in nature. >>
>
> What do you mean by this, exactly? I'm just curious, as we';re doing a LOT
>of work on the4 Sengoku magic system to reflect Shinto and esoteric Buddhism
>as historically as we can (in a fantasy game).
Isn't Shinto an animistic religion? 'Every object and place has a
spirit/kami'? The 'big' kami are pretty indistinguishable from what other
religions call gods.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:29:43 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 99
> I've noticed a trend about who posts certain kinds of comments about my own
>messages. :/ ::sigh::
Hey, I'm an argumentative bastard ^_^.
><< Well if Radar guns are _that_ inaccurate, I don't see how the cops get away
>with using them! :-) >>
>gun. You see, that is all part of the KS: Radar/Speed Gun skill. ;) In any
Argh! You got me! <flop!>
><< Radar detects objects by bouncing electromagnetic waves off them, and
>reading the return. >>
>
> I thought it emitted radio waves? Are those the same as EM? Hmm... Anyway,
>yours is a simplification.
The electromagnetic spectrum includes visible light, radio waves,
microwaves, etc. I've heard of laser-based 'radar guns', which _would_ be
very target specific, could you confirm the existance of said device?
> Clear as mud? :)
>
> Now, there are ways to throw off radar, like putting big wads of aluminum
>foil in your hubcaps, but I assure you that those tricks are not fool proof.
>While they may mess up the unit's ability to register an accurate speed, a
>trained operator will *know* something is afoot and may (depending on the
>jurisdiction and probable cause laws there) pull you over on those grounds
>alone and subject you to a vehicle inspection! <LOL>
"Pardon me, sir, would you please remove your hubcaps?" :-)
><< To wit; Radar sense bounces radio waves off a target. I assume Police Radar
>Guns do the same, if somewhat imperfectly. So why does Radar Sense fail as the
>'sense of choice'? >>
>
> Well, on the surface it seems the obvious choice. And it may well be. :D
>I'm just considering all the options here. If we did go with Radar Sense, then
>it would emit an active radar signal, which could be picked up (by PCs or
>radar detectors!). Hmm. I like that...
Well, I thought that was obvious - which is why I thought they were
switching to far less detectable laser-based systems.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:34:10 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 121
><< Nope. Your average taser is 'energy blast, stun only'. ED _is_
>insulation, if
>it will stop a lightning bolt it will stop a taser. >>
>
> I think you are confusing a taser with a stun gun.
>
Stun gun is up close, taser sends out two little wires and does it at range
(In game terms about one hex and two if your are very lucky and a good
aim... and the guy is standing pretty much still..... and there's no
wind..... did I mention the guy should be standing still for this?
Still EB stun only... see my previous post.
><< Continuous is also debatable, I have doubts about how well it will stay
>attached once the target starts jerking around. >>
>
> Hmm.. that could be a special effect of the OAF Limitation, though, don't
>you think?
>
Sometimes what happens is the assailant will grab the wires in an effort to
pull them off. His hands get the current and clench so they don't let go...
poor mister assailant.
> The taser is better simulated by an NND than a standard EB, IMO.
>
Ack... PLEASE read the previous argument.
> Btw, I thought of another Limitation for the taser: Cannot penetrate
>Armor/rDEF.
>
Thats true, if the barbs get caught in the clothing or if only one barb gets
stuck, then the taser don't work, but the current CAN still pass through
thick clothing... maybe work it as an Activation with a bonus or minus up to
GM depending upon the thickness of the clothing.
Robert Kemp
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:45:10 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 102
Which is why Chameleon Eclectic did it for you. "The Babylon Project" is
the RPG. Pick up a copy. Chameleon worked closely with the show's creator,
so it's pretty accurate. It's also great for background on the universe.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tokyo Mark [SMTP:bastet@iquest.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 1:02 AM
> To: Bob Greenwade
> Cc: 'Champions'
> Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
>
> > At 04:52 PM 4/16/1998 -0500, Andreano, Keith HIM,VA wrote:
> > >OK, Leafed through few supplements for few minutes last
> > >night before Babylon 5 came on. Here's what was seen:
>
> I just started watching B5 when it came to TNT and have been very
> impressed. But it'll be tricky to try to run a RP game based on it.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo arl-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @arl-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.217.139
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:54:11 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id KAA01213
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 103
Message text written by "Tim R. Gilberg"
> The Assult on Sanctuary has always been a one-s<
I don't have my book handy to verify, but doesn't Classic Organizations
have guidelines on how to run the assault on Sanctuary?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:13:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 104
> > Dave buys PS: Firefighter. In order to be effective on the job, does he
> > need to create a Firefighting Skill to go with it?
>
> << nope. But he'll need Paramedic and perhaps... a TF: Breathing Gear. >>
>
> Eh??
Well, SCUBA requires a Transport Familiarity, so perhaps the
breathing gear used by firefighters would as well.
> << Maybe a few other skills, but I can't think of them now. >>
>
> How about: Climbing; KS: HazMat; KS: Fires/Fire Suppression; CL: +1 w/Ax
> <G>; PS: EMT (some are); RL: +2 w/Hose <G>; TF: Large Ground Vehicles (semi-
> trucks, hook 'n ladder trucks, etc.). Just tossing out some ideas.
Right. I was blanking on stuff like this. What's HazMat?
> IMO, those would be good complimentary skills, but I would imagine that
> litigation requires a lot more knowledge of law and legal precedent than
> flattery and nice a speaking voice (an over-simplification, I know).
Hmmm. Well, at least with Dramatized law, the speaking skills
seem to be most important, using the PSs and KSs as the complimentaries.
Also, the BBB comes right out and says that those PRE skills are the ones
for influencing, etc. I'd assume they, as more specialized in that,
would be more effective than the PS.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.139
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:15:12 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: The source of all power?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id LAA02182
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 107
One of the selling points for San Angelo is that it explains why
superpowers work. A weakness that has been pointed out in Champions
Universe is that it doesn't explain why superpowers work.
What I can't figure out is, why is it so important to know why energy
blasts are possible for some people? When I think of the Marvel, DC, or
Image universes, I don't think they've defined some all-encompassing power
like "the Force" which allows certain people to have extraordinary powers.
Some rare individuals just have laser-eyes or whatever...you accept it, and
get on with the story. Sometimes the source of your power (such as being a
volunteer in some experiment which granted them) is valuable to the
campaign (maybe the lab wants to bring you back for more experimentation),
but this varies from character to character. What intrinsic value is added
to a campaign simply by describing a "force" from which all superpowers
stem?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:17:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 105
> The professional skill gives you the ability to DO the job, the
> part that gets your hands dirty. The knowledge skill gives you the ability
> to KNOW about the job and the ins and outs that can come about. Thats what
> I've always believed.
But for actual play, combat rules would be used. I'd say that,
without the PS, you would be at a negative modifier to all rolls made in
play. (Kind of hard to catch a pass when you ran the wrong way.)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo smtp2.globalserve.net from hartjes@ionsys.com server @smtp2.globalserve.net ip 209.90.128.7
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:21:14 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <hartjes@ionsys.com>
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Politics in the game...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 108
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> Well, then you probably won't like my Northwest supplement, since an
> unusually large proportion of situations in Oregon seem to arise from
> thepolitical views, agendas, and disagreements of various individuals and
> organizations. In just the past 15 years or so, I've seen incredibly
> bitter, vindictive, and occasionally violent debates on matters ranging
> from abortion, euthenasia, and gay rights to sales tax proposals, term
> limits for elected officials, and even an update of our bottle deposit law.
> (Yes, folks, there were a couple of personal-attack ads along the lines
> of, "Don't let These People shove their ideas down our throat," over the
> issue of paying a refundable five cents for the bottle that Snapple and
> similar drinks come in.)
> Yes, I do plan to go into this, at least to an extent, in my book, and
> even include a couple of politically-motivated villains on various sides of
> different issues (including a neo-Nazi, and a group of superpowered
> gay-rights radicals that even radical gay-rights groups don't like).
> ---
I think that some people may have misconstrued my comments about
politics (not to say adding unthinking PS comments to their messages).
I have no problem with using politics in a *game* situation. It
obviously creates a lot of opportunities for serious role-playing. What
I had a problem with was the conservative vs. liberal arguement for the
various Champs products. I fail to see what it has do with the material
inside.
On a related note, you may find it strange that a Canadian runs a
campaign set in Oregon! I created a city in the ficticous town of
Winchester Bay, where the Smith and Umqua rivers empty into the
Pacific. I'll be looking at the Northwest Supllement with great
interest so I can flesh out some of the details I have no way of knowing
about.
Chris Hartjes
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:25:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Foxbat
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 106
> > The Assult on Sanctuary has always been a one-s<
>
> I don't have my book handy to verify, but doesn't Classic Organizations
> have guidelines on how to run the assault on Sanctuary?
Yeah, but I've never had the time to lay out and work in a
personal hero group. Plus, it'd be one heck of a long adventure -- all
combat.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Foxbat
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:32:26 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 109
yep.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David B Stallard [SMTP:DBStallard@COMPUSERVE.COM]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 10:54 AM
> To: Goode, Jason
> Cc: Champions
> Subject: Re: Foxbat
>
> Message text written by "Tim R. Gilberg"
> > The Assult on Sanctuary has always been a one-s<
>
> I don't have my book handy to verify, but doesn't Classic Organizations
> have guidelines on how to run the assault on Sanctuary?
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:42:59 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 110
> Again, check the five above-mentioned characters. They do make up,
at
>least somewhat, for Reverend Billy Bob, Julie Rainbow, and Rev. Gil
Purdue
>(although I do think -- and I say this as a conservative Christian
myself
>-- that this last fellow would be a great foil for an all-Christian
hero
>team!).
Glad to hear it! Hope this trend continues!
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1c.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1c.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.38
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:28:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: How do I...
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 112
---GoldRushG wrote:
>
> << As for using against supers - well, how effective should a piece of
> equipment that you can go out an buy really be against them? >>
>
> Well, a super without resistant defenses can be seriously screwed
over by a
> shot to the head by a .380 auto. Those go for about $325 these
days... :/
Thank you Mark. :-p <<imagine the sound of Bronx cheer>>
Ok, I'll admit, there are some out there, but really, rare is the
Champs character without at least a few of points of resistant DEF.
-=>John D.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1a.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1a.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.22
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: Favorite moments
To: chadriley01@sprynet.com, "Champ's Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 113
---Chad Riley wrote:
>
> So what are your favorite moments in Champions?
While on an unrelated mission the hero (my character included) flew
over what turned out to be a Genocide installation (a favorite of the
GM). Both my character "Neutrino - the Mighty Mite" (a 3 foot tall
brick) and the other team brick "Flannaman - the Man of Flanna" (No I
don't know what flanna is either, so don't ask - big guy though, one
level growth always on) had long standing hunteds by said group.
Someone down on the ground started firing at out plane (yep, just a
normal plane - none of us could fly). The GM looks over me to ask
what my chatacter is doing
"Running past Flannaman to jump out of the plane first so I can beat
him to the ground." My character leaps, followed shortly by
Flannaman. The other players are shocked "but you can't fly"
"Who cares, landing is all that matters".
We both plow pretty deaply into the ground (many damage rolled by GM),
two phases later we climb out, glare at the agents "who's first?".
Every agent puts his gun on the ground and his hand in the air (the GM
didnt even bother roling for a PRE attack). By the time the rest of
the team had landed Neutrino and Flannaman were eating lunch.
All in all, it's a good thing the agents had no way of determining our
state of health. When we climbed out of our respective holes in the
ground we each had (after recovering from being stunned and taking
one recovery) just enough stun to stand up.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo21.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo21.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.65
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:43:36 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 116
<< Whoa... why do people insist on making electrical attacks NND? Sheesh. Why
would they be anything of the sort? You HAVE a defense for electricity. Its
called energy defense. >>
Becuase electricity is not simply represented by one specific power in the
Hero System. Electricity is a special effect that can be used for any power.
The effect that a stun gun or taser has on a person is a lot different than
the effect of grabbing onto a live high voltage wire. ;)
It's the effect of the item that we're trying to best simulate.
<< If your armor is less conducive, you are effected less by the electricity
and yes, a thick jacket WILL protect you from a taser..... sometimes. >>
But that is because the barbs cannot penetrate the jacket and deliver the
charge to your body. It's imperative that the taser be able to deliver the
electrical charge to your body, else the attack is nigh useless. The taser
does not deliver a lethal charge of electricity designed to fry one's flesh.
It is designed to send a non-lethal charge that temporarily disrupts the
body's ability to send/receive neuro-impulses; muscles don''t work, body falls
down, person stunned. This is better simulated as an NND, IMO.
<< Do it this way instead, EB does stun only. Simple and cheap. Viola. >>
I'd rather not. It doesn't represent the affects a taser has as well as an
NND, IMO.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:49:41 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 114
<< Hey, I'm an argumentative bastard ^_^. >>
And this self admission doesn't inspire me to read many more of your posts.
<< "Pardon me, sir, would you please remove your hubcaps?" :-) >>
Been there. Done that.
>it would emit an active radar signal, which could be picked up (by PCs or
>radar detectors!). Hmm. I like that...
<< Well, I thought that was obvious >>
Another example of your tone and "demeanor" in posts. Please bring it down a
notch, okay? Did you not read my disclaimers at the beginning of my posts
containing the stats? I am what many refer to as "human," and thus I am
subbject to some of the same imperfections as anyone else. Those stats were
from old write-ups and I did say they hadn't been checked in some time and are
subject to change...
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo18.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo18.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.40
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:52:24 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 118
<< Chameleon worked closely with the show's creator, so it's pretty accurate.
>>
*Pretty* accurate? Unless they structured their license to allow CE to
create "parallel universe"-type material, I would say that the stuff in book
would have to be very accurate, else it would not get the approval of the
licensor. Now, I don't know the details of the agreement between the two, but
my guess is that everything in the BP:RPG is "official."
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:55:28 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 117
<< What's HazMat? >>
Hazardous Materials. Basically knowing what type of hazardous material it
is, what it's effects are, and how to contain, treat or otherwise clean it up.
HazMat can include everything from spilled gasoline to radiation, and all of
the nasty chemicals that are transported on our public highways. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo26.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo26.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.70
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:28 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 119
<< One of the selling points for San Angelo is that it explains why
superpowers work. >>
More accurately, we explain why they *can* work. The actual origins and
special effects of powers are still up to the players and the GMs. Just FYI.
;)
<< What intrinsic value is added to a campaign simply by describing a "force"
from which all superpowers stem? >>
Some people have an easier time suspending their disbelief if there is a
story-based mechanic in place to "allow" things to happen. Without it, there
is nothing to fall back on, nothing to "blame" for the weirdness of the
setting. ;) Some people don't like that.
Other benefits of defining such a force include: plot hooks, story threads,
etc. But those are things we're not going to be covering for a while. We'll
let folks romp around in the city and have fun for a while before we start
exploring some of that stuff. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Favorite moments
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:00:36 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 125
<<So what are your favorite moments in Champions?>>
Favorite moment #1:
Character called Ricochet, a marksman with autofire weapons and unlimited
ammo (teleporting clips, god bless 'em), was trapped in the bottom of a pit
with a character whose name I think was Rottweiler or something dog-like.
Anyway, Ricochets weapons were useless against this guy, his armor was just
too bad ass and he had strength to boot. After several successfull dodges
and shots in vain, Rottweiler gets Ricochet in a bear hug and starts
squeezing the heck out of him, laughing at him and mocking him all the
while.
Player: Crap! What the Hell can I do? My weapons don't effect him.
GM: Sorry... you got yourself in it.
(short pause)
Player: Does this guy breathe?
GM: (thinks and blinks a bit, looks at the character sheet) Well... yeah.
Player: Good, jam my gun in ghis mouth when next he makes a snide comment
and fire.
GM: (Looks annoyed) His armor is internal too.
Player: Fine.... I have unlimited ammo.... lets see if he can breath lead.
To make a long story short, the villain started swallowing bullets but
failed an Con check.... The GM thought it was creative and the Rott didn't
really have enough strength to bite the barrel off sense it was supposedly
an unbreakable focus.
Ricochet drowned him in bullets.
Favorite moment #2:
Two characters in a group, one is the brick named Adonis, the other a
berserker claw named, (go fig) Claw. Claw has a Berserker when takes 10 stun
on 14- and is 8 or less to come out. Adonis CONSTANTLY has to grab him after
a fight to prevent him from hurting innocnets and team mates and Adonis is
getting irritated about it. Claw's player just loves it and thinks this
games is just so... neato.
They are raiding a VIPER base in this really large underground hangar and
have just defeated 20 VIPER armored troops. Adonis is getting irritated at
all the little underlings but fortunately Claw has not been hit and is still
in control at the end of the battle. Claw's Player is really getting into
the "wolverinieness" of his character which just irritates Adonis's Player
all the more.Just then 40 even weaker VIPER members come out of the doors at
the other end of the hangar. Adonis sighs and his player gets upset at the
concept of having to bother with these guys.
Adonis comes up with a solution.
Adonis grabs Claw suddenly, open hand slaps his face for a little over 10
stun and then mightily hurls him into the middle of the 40 VIPER agents.
Adonis exits while they clammer for their lives against the berserking Claw.
All players are lying on the floor crying from laughing and Claw's player
finally gets upset.
Favorite Moment #3
Battle with Dr. Destroyer.
Gauntlet, flying armor character, is on the way there doing max non-combat
speed.
Dr. D starts with a Presence attack and has the entire group in awe and at
his whim (+30).
Gauntlet still approaching. Gm dtermines he will arrive on the end of
post-phase 12.
Dr. D begins to lay waste to the group who currently has 0 DCV. The two long
range characters and martial artist go down in the first area effect attack
(high roll and low stun (Gee, our DCV is so high, we'll NEVER be hit)).
Phase 2, Dr. D takes out brick with NND some failed attempts at challenging
fail after a lucky EGO roll (house rule) is made. To make a long story
short, at the end of the round, Dr. D has managed to make all but one
team-mate unconscious and the one still up is primarily a support character
(one with some weak entangles, an NND (which doesn't effect Dr. D because he
has Flash defense for hearing), and a lot of aid).
End of Post-phase twelve, Brick wakes up just in time to see Gauntlet
arrive... he doesn't slow down. He pulls off a 35 Move through even with
half his OCV. Rolls Hit Location on Dr. D.
He hits the head.
The resulting damage nearly KILLS Gauntlet (Well, nearly makes him
unconscious anyway) BUT, he takes down Dr. D in one shot.
Guantlet's player later has t-shirt made to commemorate the event "I took
out Dr. Destroyer in one shot". Its his favorite war story... don't tell
him, but I thought it was pretty neat too.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo16.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo16.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.38
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:07:09 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 123
<< Ok, I'll admit, there are some out there, but really, rare is the Champs
character without at least a few of points of resistant DEF. >>
According to what survey or experience? Apparently in our group rDEF is less
common than in yours. I guess our heroes are just more heroic. ;)
"Armor? Who need armor? We're SUPERheroes!"
<LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo vega.iii.com from ajackson@iii.com server @vega.iii.com ip 192.33.187.51
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:07:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: How do I...
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 124
GoldRushG writes:
> Becuase electricity is not simply represented by one specific power in the
> Hero System. Electricity is a special effect that can be used for any
> power. The effect that a stun gun or taser has on a person is a lot
> different than the effect of grabbing onto a live high voltage wire. ;)
Actually, it's more or less identical to grabbing a high voltage, low amperage
wire, since that's pretty much what a taser is (it's a 40,000 volt shorted out
low-amperage power line). Of course, your average power line is medium voltage
high amperage instead, which is why it's likely to kill you instead of just
stunning you (cross-country power lines will be very high voltage very high
amperage). Any insulation capable of coping with a power line is capable of
coping with a taser just fine. Due to it's relative high voltage and low
amperage, I might call a taser 'AP energy blast, stun only', since penetration
is mostly a function of voltage, while 'damage' is mostly a function of
amperage.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Fw: How do I...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:23:30 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 126
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert <baron@stlnet.com>
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: How do I...
>><< Whoa... why do people insist on making electrical attacks NND? Sheesh.
>Why
>>would they be anything of the sort? You HAVE a defense for electricity.
Its
>>called energy defense. >>
>>
>> Becuase electricity is not simply represented by one specific power in
>the
>>Hero System. Electricity is a special effect that can be used for any
>power.
>>The effect that a stun gun or taser has on a person is a lot different
than
>>the effect of grabbing onto a live high voltage wire. ;)
>>
>> It's the effect of the item that we're trying to best simulate.
>>
>Energy defense is put there for a reason. If its effect you want, lets look
>at it this way then. Why should a brick who can catch a live wire in his
>teeth just to please kiddies at a charity benefit be threatened by a cop
>weilding a taser. Would Superman be intimidated by a taser-weilding cop or
>would he be amused? The damage is less in intensity and even MORE less
>likely to affect that brick. Volts shock, amps kill. Tasers and stun guns
>deliver volts (some amps but those are the ones that are illegally
>modified).
>
>><< If your armor is less conducive, you are effected less by the
>electricity
>>and yes, a thick jacket WILL protect you from a taser..... sometimes. >>
>>
>> But that is because the barbs cannot penetrate the jacket and deliver
the
>>charge to your body.
>
>No actually its because the ARC of electricity can't penetrate the jacket.
>You can still have a taser line stuck in your clothing and the arc reach up
>to two inches or so to you providing how close the other contact is.
>
>> It's imperative that the taser be able to deliver the
>>electrical charge to your body, else the attack is nigh useless. The taser
>>does not deliver a lethal charge of electricity designed to fry one's
>flesh.
>
>RIGHT... thats why its EB, stun only.
>
>>It is designed to send a non-lethal charge that temporarily disrupts the
>>body's ability to send/receive neuro-impulses; muscles don''t work, body
>falls
>>down, person stunned. This is better simulated as an NND, IMO.
>
>When we get hit by ANY electricity, that is just a side effect of
>electricity, hence you takes stun. When you get punched, your
>"nuero-impulses" tell you it hurts real bad and you take Stun just the same
>way heat damage stings like the dickens for minutes after you get burned.
>The fact that it "hurts" is why you are taking stun only. The fact that it
>doesn't do body isn't good enough reason to make it NND. Tasers and Stun
>guns are EB, stun only. Simplify.
>>
>><< Do it this way instead, EB does stun only. Simple and cheap. Viola. >>
>>
>> I'd rather not. It doesn't represent the affects a taser has as well as
>an
>>NND, IMO.
>>
>From my experience with them, I disagree. Oh well.
>
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from jeffj@io.com server jeffj@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:30:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sakura <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Grossly Complex problem
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 127
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, William K Bushway wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Sakura wrote:
<death in FF snipped>
> Ah, the old "Swoon" dilemma. I'd probably model the Life spells
> as a transform that raises the character's BODY and STUN to zero, linked
> to an Aid. The trick is making the players aware which are "story"
> deaths, and which aren't.
Indeed...I think it'll be easiest to just call them 'GMO knockouts' - it
is difficult to kill someone in HERO, but there's going to be some fairly
high levels of power flying around. Still, it's /easy/ to keep from
killing characters, and if Phoenix Down' doesn't actually cure /real/
death, then it prevents all sorts of in-game problems that you will never
have in a computer RPG.
Hmm...I think the various 'Cure' spells will all have the limit 'only on
conscious targets'. What would that be? -1/2? (For that matter, what
would 'only on unconscious targets' be for Life1, Life2, and Phoenix
Down?)
> > On the other hand, I liked the idea of the Espers in FFIII teaching you
> > magic, and you being able to summon them (briefly) to help you. It's all
> > in how you look at it.
>
> Yeah. Still, I lied the quests from 2 where you had to convince
> the monster to help you, before you could summon them.
Ooo. I haven't played 2, so I probably missed out on a lot. (I hear
they're rereleasing it for Playstation in Japan - I hope it makes it over
here...). Could you give me an example? (don't worry too much about
spoilers, unless they're shocking revalations in the plot of the game)
> > J, writing stats for Chocobos.
>
> Just remember, Chocobos are invincible (unless you're playing
> Tactics). In 2&3, you never even have a chance to attempt to kill a
> Chocobo. In 7, I defy to attempt to kill them. I spent a half hour
> repeating the Knights of the Round/Mime/2x Summon combo, only to have the
> slightly miffed chocobo peck each of my characters, and run away.
Yarf. I've never tried to 'sense' one so I have no idea what their stats
are. I'll probably go with the 'Tactics' model (after I rent the game and
play it a bit) since if I didn't, I'd have players trying to train
invincible War Chocobos.
Plus, there might be some deviant who wants to /play/ one...<g>
J
"One equal temper of heroic hearts, http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will jeffj@io.com
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: How do I...
To: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 131
---GoldRushG wrote:
>
> << Ok, I'll admit, there are some out there, but really, rare is the
Champs
> character without at least a few of points of resistant DEF. >>
>
> According to what survey or experience? Apparently in our group
rDEF is less
> common than in yours. I guess our heroes are just more heroic. ;)
Well, the published Champions heroes and villains. Not very many that
don't have at lesat some resitant def
> "Armor? Who need armor? We're SUPERheroes!"
Maybe, but it's damn embarressing to, after saving the planet from the
ravages of the Kosmic Kumquat, to be killed by a punk with handgun.
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo12.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo12.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.34
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:35:57 EDT
To: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 130
In a message dated 4/17/98 8:24:03 AM, DBStallard@compuserve.com wrote:
>One of the selling points for San Angelo is that it explains why
>superpowers work. A weakness that has been pointed out in Champions
>Universe is that it doesn't explain why superpowers work.
>
Actually, that was a deliberate design decision on our part. We felt that
people would want the flexibility to come up with their own explanations.
>
>What I can't figure out is, why is it so important to know why energy
>blasts are possible for some people? When I think of the Marvel, DC, or
>Image universes, I don't think they've defined some all-encompassing power
>like "the Force" which allows certain people to have extraordinary powers.
>Some rare individuals just have laser-eyes or whatever...you accept it, and
>get on with the story. Sometimes the source of your power (such as being a
>volunteer in some experiment which granted them) is valuable to the
>campaign (maybe the lab wants to bring you back for more experimentation),
>but this varies from character to character. What intrinsic value is added
>to a campaign simply by describing a "force" from which all superpowers
>stem?
We did go further in the New Millennium setting towards explaining
superpowers, because we felt it would be helpful to newer GMs. We even set up
a list of common SFX that powers are based on, and integrated that into the
Origin Path tables. This makes it easy to create characters who are connected
to the campaign background and therefore to other characters; I recommend that
people do something similar for their own campaign settings. You don't need to
roll on the Origin Tables unless you want a random idea; you can use them as
reference points to fit into a concept you're developing.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo post.mail.demon.net from chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk server @post-20.mail.demon.net ip 194.217.242.27
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:52:23 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Ultimate Utility Belt
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 135
As a bit of a fan of gadgeteers and thier biggest and best gadget the
utility belt, and I working on a site called (in ture Hero fash') 2The
Ultimate Utility Belt"
I have almost finished converting Batman's utility belt (which has to be
the mother of them all) from DCH over to Hero and was wondering what
other cool gadgets people have written themselves they might want to
submit, or what gadgets people are having trouble with which I could
try and do.
Thanks in advance....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.stlnet.com from baron@stlnet.com server root@mail.stlnet.com ip 209.96.6.16
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
To: "Champs" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:04:50 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 137
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Cc: [unknown] <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
>David B Stallard wrote:
>>
>> >>Is there a chance that Hero Games might be able to realease some
>> "cardboard
>> hero" type counters in electronic format?<<
>>
>> Lots of people (myself included) are asking for more of those cardboard
>> "miniatures". Hero or Gold Rush, are you taking notes? :-) My personal
>> preference would be to have only silhouettes on these miniatures (just
like
>> the character sheets), so we could draw our own heroes/villains onto
them.
>> Sounds like an inexpensive project that is highly desired.
>
>If there is a big enough demand for this then I might give it a try and
>stick on my web page. Before I embark on this epic mission..... just how
>desperate are you guys (if we're bribing again I only except cash)
>
We're desparate and would appreciate it. Very much. Thanks for your hard
work.... and no, no money, just kudos and accolades if it gets done. Its a
dirty job, but someone has to shirk it off on someone else.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Power Question: Gas Cloud
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:08:00 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 138
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Rick Holding writes:
> I'm not aware of any place that states that a power with charges
> that has an extended time needs also to have Continuous or are we talking
> about different effects?
Check the FAQ. The official ruling is that Continuous Charges requires
either a constant base power or the Continuous advantage. Also of import
is that a continuous attack requires a half-phase attack action to maintain
it unless you also have Uncontrolled.
I was simply running along with the idea.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTeaf56VRH7BJMxHAQGIYgP/ZOOzETje6pXUJPsK9SvAiAhC85PaetSh
8LNIdYegIGJ97RGlCMq848ckGrsaqeaRuW8R11kSF146mBz+5tjPA3EBHKdM4S9e
52BYzGFC1K78mWA+HNcIUfTxnsi7NyzpUsQpApN7PrZpKdCjq6OhxxUF/ZjurdeW
tK/m6ZEd/dI=
=jTJh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:11:27 -0400
Lines: 27
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 136
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> Nothing to your question. However, a PS is the minimum needed to
> hold a job in that field, plain and simple. Holding a job as a teacher
> is more a matter of knowing procedure than teacher. Sad but true.
The ability to hold a job as a teacher without the ability to teach is the
nebulous "other skill" you have been trying to create. I tend to think of
it as a combination of Bureaucracy and some type of practical political
skill. "PS: Teacher" is still the skill to be able to teach well.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTebTp6VRH7BJMxHAQFYygQAlaezZzf9UydOdCDDqcRx3cFUcDEkSoXR
vFQPaJw0qjuwD7Tmq1mWgo+lP+s/DmooYhZntUXJxy6k99ZsIui/rv5O10DLFvqF
Ivtx1mmFoM2ngMtguCmz0MsxsXSr5zLNZ3CMuoAPpIsd7sWntL0FkfRHiIS2CMYk
yuRorob3idY=
=iR6I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:13:34 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 140
I was trying to be brief with an off-topic subject. Allow me to expand and
clarify.
First, *pretty* can be interpreted differently depending on you personal set
of connotations. We dedicated B5 fans tend to have annoyingly high (to
other people) standards for accuracy and conformance to the show. For me,
*pretty* accurate is 90% or better in reference to B5.
Second, the show has multiple sources of sometimes conflicting but still
'canon' material, i.e., the TV show, the TV movies, the novels, the comics,
the A-to-Z guide, the Official Guide CD-ROM, JMS' (the show's creator,
Joseph Michael Strackzinsky) comments on the net (he has an extraordinarily
high web presence for a writer/producer of TV), comments of the other 'high
ranking' people on the show, AOG's Babylon 5 Wars (a tactical game), the
Babylon Project itself, and others. These, sometimes conflicting,
information sources can lead to confusion and inaccuracy. Reportedly,
Strackzinsky has contradicted himself multiple times.
Three, the setting for the game is actually prior to the events in the
television show, and contains much speculation and extrapolation on the part
of the game's creator's, as well as the occasional compromise for
playability's sake (all approved by JMS and Warner Brothers' lawyers).
Four, JMS, Doug Netter and the rest have much more important things to do
than go over every word submitted for the RPG (such as producing a quality
show each week, as well as filming the movies).
Etc., etc., you get the point. Mind you, I think that they did an excellent
job and so do most other people. It's a great game and I wish I could GM
that type of environment. Unfortunately (or fortunately for you guys) I do
much better with fantastical environments, like superheroes. Which means
I'm stuck not playing until I find someone else who lives with 50 miles or
so and wants to GM it.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GoldRushG [SMTP:GoldRushG@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 12:52 PM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Examples (Was RE: Politics in the game)
>
> << Chameleon worked closely with the show's creator, so it's pretty
> accurate.
> >>
>
> *Pretty* accurate? Unless they structured their license to allow CE to
> create "parallel universe"-type material, I would say that the stuff in
> book
> would have to be very accurate, else it would not get the approval of the
> licensor. Now, I don't know the details of the agreement between the two,
> but
> my guess is that everything in the BP:RPG is "official."
>
> Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-7.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-7.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.137
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:13:57 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: San Angelo continuity
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA11069
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 141
Another of San Angelo's selling points is that importance will be placed on
continuity, and supplement authors will not just be allowed to make stuff
up as they go along. This sounds like a good idea to me, but I was
thinking.... Does this mean that people who only buy, say, supplement #1
and supplement #5 are going to be missing chunks of the story and might
have a hard time figuring out how the world got from #1 to #5?
I guess what I'm confused about is past continuity vs future continuity.
It certainly makes sense to me that supplements would have to comply with
established groups and world events, or else get approval to introduce a
new one. Now, if the San Angelo world is going to change as more
supplements come out, then the "missing chunk" idea I mentioned before
could be correct.
* Minor Earthdawn spoiler alert *
To take an example from another RPG, Earthdawn (from FASA) released a
supplement called "Prelude to War" which was exactly that...it set the
stage for a full-scale war. An upcoming supplement is planned to deal with
the war itself, and then following supplements will deal with a post-war
Barsaive. Thus, if I'm a new player to the game coming in at the post-war
time, there's a lot of stuff that I'll have to piece together unless I go
get all the previous supplements. Now, each campaign can have the war
happen at different points, or they can ignore the war altogether, but it
is a "world change" and future supplements have the right to assume that
the war has taken place in your campaign.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the San Angelo timeline advance through
various supplements with world events similar to the Assault on Sanctuary
or the temporary conquering of SA by aliens or whatever, with future
supplements referencing these events, or will supplements essentially add
new "features" (like a new villain group) to the current day San Angelo? I
think the Champions Universe and C:NM (so far) both just kept adding stuff
to the current day, rather than advancing the "world status". I guess all
the paragraphs other than this one aren't needed anymore, since I think I
asked the question clearly enough...I think it just took me those "rough
drafts" to figure out exactly what I wanted to ask. -grin-
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-9.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-9.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.139
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:14:04 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA10868
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 139
Message text written by GoldRushG
> Some people have an easier time suspending their disbelief if there is a
story-based mechanic in place to "allow" things to happen. Without it,
there
is nothing to fall back on, nothing to "blame" for the weirdness of the
setting. ;) Some people don't like that.<
I suppose that's understandable, but wouldn't these people have problems
with comic books too? I'm pretty sure Marvel and Image don't have a
"father of all powers" concept, and I'd guess that DC doesn't either.
> Other benefits of defining such a force include: plot hooks, story
threads,
etc. But those are things we're not going to be covering for a while. We'll
let folks romp around in the city and have fun for a while before we start
exploring some of that stuff. ;)<
I can see the benefits as far as story goes, and I'd rather have it than
not have it, but I don't see why the lack of such a concept would be
considered a downfall of Champions Universe. It seems like a minor detail
when compared to all the other information that a book like CU or San
Angelo would provide.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:16:43 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 143
What I did was
5 PS: Artist
2 PS: Commercial Artist
2 PS: Graphic Artist
2 KS: Comic Book Industry
Thanks for the suggestions guys. (No, I'm not real clear on the difference
between 'Commercial Artist' and 'Graphic Artist'.)
>
> Curt Hicks wrote:
> >
> > So what do I need to buy for my new character ?
> > A professional comic book artist with a degree from the Art Institute,
> > and former worker in a commercial art shop.
> >
> > Curt Hicks
>
>
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:18:01 -0400
Lines: 29
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 142
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> Actually, as I was pointing out, it is similar to these skills in
> mechanics of using PRE, but separate enough to be its own skill. You can
> attempt to teach without it, but won't really help much more than a
> textbook. And anyone can read from a textbook. (Well, almost anyone.)
Thing is, different teachers use different techniques to achieve the same
end (keeping students interested in learning). And some do not even
bother. The point is that you cannot roll it all up into one single skill,
because it is really a small variety of different skills, all (or at least
most) of which already exist.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTec2J6VRH7BJMxHAQFaTQQAvCHPq5TiO/FGSydDyhDkkOPnAaUQZ074
zLY/t1XZeXyWMhtvIZ0z9GJFjL/BT3L/Bk+vK6UrVTfZXRh4byMx2yJvSkKHoKI2
fJRHYp01t7Sf125saXitcdBknHntIglMksCbj5f1qZhz2M3vagDPcFWDg6Z5lsbu
ui7EWhtTjBI=
=HPbb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo titan.dnai.com from lizard@dnai.com server @dnai.com ip 207.181.194.98
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:30:49 -0700
To: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au&> champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Low Gravity and STR
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 148
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Y'all are forgetting one important thing. No, you couldn't just shove
the Titanic with one hand in space, because it was 'weightless'. But,
ultimately, ANY force acting on it, given time, WILL move it, because
there's no other forces acting on it.
IOW, in the Titanic was floating in space, not in any kind of orbit
or otherwise influenced by gravity, someone with a peashooter and
enough peas could *eventually* get it to move.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNTef2DKf8mIpTvjWEQIybwCg5WO0VCpBmBp6FpWeNP3hy4vqxwMAoMd3
6ydMBtkvBpu2dweG/mU1JSnR
=5XHe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:30:57 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 145
Cool idea.
Bob G and I are working on The Ultimate Gadgeteer, and the Utility Belt
is definitely going to get some good coverage.
Here's one that I tend to use:
15 Belt: OAF
1u Radios: High Range Radio Hearing, usable by 1 other
1u Telescope: +10 Telescopic Sight
1u Light: Change Environment @ 0 END
1u Steroids: 2d6 Aid STR, lose 1/minute [16 charges]
1u Duller: 1d6 Drain EGO, recover 1/minute [8 continuing charges:
1 turn]
1u Antidote: 5d6 Dispel Poison [16 charges]
1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
1u Swing Lines: 10" Swinging, usable by 1 other
1u Parachute: 15" Gliding [1 recoverable charge]
1u Air Bag: +15 PD [1 recoverable charge]
1u Gas Masks: LS: Self-Contained, usable by 1 other
1u Smoke Bomb: 1" Darkness to normal, IR [4 continuing charges:
1 minute]
1u Flash Bomb: 1d6 Flash explosion [4 charges]
1u Tear Gas: 1d6 AVLD Flash defense [4 continuing charges:
1 minute]
--
30 Utility Belt
With all the drugs and chemicals in here, you can see that this is for a
hero who knows his pharmacology. There are tons of other gadgets that
can, of course, go in. Just pick a 15-point power and insert it.
Actually, you can go up to 30-points if you want, but I stuck with 15,
so that two gadgets can be going at once.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:33:22 -0400
Lines: 47
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 144
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Rick Holding writes:
> No, sorry, but you have to read what I sent again. At no point did
> I say that you declare a block after the attack roll. I said you declare
> a block after the attack statement but before the attack roll.
Okay, I did misunderstand.
> So, your opponent winds up, you say you attempt to block, he attacks and
> IF he hits, you roll the block based on how well he hits.
That makes block completely useless. Watch:
First example (dodge): two characters with OCV 5, DCV 5. A is the
attacker, D is the defender. D decides to dodge. A has a constant 25%
chance to hit D.
Second example (standard block method): D attempts to block A's strike. D
has an 11- chance to stop the attack; if he fails, A has an 11- chance to
hit. A has a constant, slightly less than 25% chance of hitting D.
Third example (your proposed method): A announces his attack, D opts to
block. A has an 11- chance to hit D; if he hits, D has an 11- less chance
to block, less the difference between his DCV and the highest DCV A could
have hit with that roll. A has at least a slightly less than 25% chance of
hitting D, modified up based on the difference between D's DCV and the
highest DCV A could have hit.
Using your method, one will *ALWAYS* be better off using a dodge maneuver
instead of a block maneuver.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTegcZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFOCwQAlPSrYScc5BIGdRuI3kMt14XJ8CmwNUFJ
2udi+FXWIlw6oKQiCOsMQZ6FC5Nx5bJsf4S7kvq6PJeDARbsIzO+2AU9ZkDjFQ9Y
hhmryXe9JVR0KAJrMDPkCihPtKc51Zyab/0w9oHH7RAmVnvPWKoLZ/yIud5zqLyL
ALZ0puCKjq4=
=I/3L
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1d.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1d.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.48
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Cardboard Heroes. A question...
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 147
Anyone have any handy? If so, what were the dimensions? Height,
width, amount left at the bottom to stick in the base (or foldover to
form a base)?
==
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
============================================
Got a question about the list? Just ask. Or, you can go
look over at www.sysabend.org/champions. I've been
slowly posting information about the list there.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:42:47 -0400
Lines: 44
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 146
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael Nunn writes:
> Then you can get into the specialty ammo, the so called cop killers, they
> hit like that but are AP... scarry isn't it? Then there are the Teflon
> coated, spent Uraninum core NATO 223 rounds. 1/4 inch plate steel
> doesn't even slow them down...
Um... bullshit.
First, there are *NO* DU-cored .223 out there. They are all solid steel or
steel jacketed lead. The rounds of which you write are standard issue FMJ
or solid steel. DU is rarely used on the battlefield. It is expensive and
dangerous; tungsten-carbide has equivalent penetration characteristics, is
cheaper, and is not a contact poison. Besides, high density, high tensile
strength subcaliber penetrators are used in large bore weapons -- cannon --
not small arms.
Second, *ALL* military issue .223 are coated in Teflon, not for ballistic
penetration but to reduce barrel wear. In fact, the Teflon coating very
slightly *REDUCES* penetration of ballistic fabrics.
Third *ALL* steel or steel jacketed lead rounds are considered "light armor
piercing". They have very high velocities, and the steel construction
prevents deformation. In other words, they tend retain their energy
(penetrate armor) rather than dumping it into a target (do damage).
Gah! I hate it when people spread the "Teflon cop killer" myth.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTeiop6VRH7BJMxHAQGNgQQAxLILJj0t699KoiIC2+5VSk9JB6IhODwp
pC4T61h+kRJJBZsQUW0KBPakpj2asQsdB6sT6ljJPXAm4pgfFfpdQLbTJc8Zulbh
znAFPTObm80dlkmOPg66mrrwGK0D1RX4hvL2Nyn7/dRMQoOhj+pRmoRcNbmhO2pz
DvvSPV7NFRc=
=UzHt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-5.compuserve.com from morfhis@compuserve.com server @dub-img-5.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.135
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:45:20 -0400
From: "Jeff M. Reid" <Morfhis@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Favorite Moments
To: Champions Mailing List A <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id OAA12799
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 149
Zenith (my character, patterned after Ultra Boy of the Legion of Super
Heroes), and the other members of the Sentinels, were confronted by about a
dozen agents of the Knights of Genetic Purity. We knew they were no
challenge but we didn't have time to deal with them, so Zenith grabbed the
weapon of the nearest agent.
Pointing the weapon (a 2d6 RKA) at his own head, he said, "Pay attention!
THIS is your gun... THIS is my HEAD!" He fired the weapon, taking maximum
damage (with Head Shot modifiers). Nearly, but not quite, Stunned, he
glared at the agent and said, "Any questions?"
Jeff Reid
Morfhis@compuserve.com
http://www.now-online.com/morfhis/bugloony.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:46:40 -0400
Lines: 24
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 150
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> Then why buy Computer Programmin when the PS is cheaper?
"Computer Programming" is used to write code. "PS: Computer Programmer" is
used in addition to "Computer Programming" when you write lean, fast,
well-documented code. They are complimentary, not redundant.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTejj56VRH7BJMxHAQFkmwP/fcYoyXjCTBOg8LCE+Sj9Y2pq6SGywNnL
U79qrJt/AF4RT/NC4hRTTy6bUMoXSL1RHwP6Bab+W8G+WDLqWRf9CEUKvDdL2qKw
bZLX+nCdp24OuewYIufVuNXyFPtwVtVh2d2UtLXYsqVLgRzQu4LdR91Dzp49II+G
lonE3ep+bmA=
=m4y2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo24.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo24.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.68
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:04:01 EDT
To: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: San Angelo continuity
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 152
In a message dated 4/17/98 11:25:27 AM, DBStallard@compuserve.com wrote:
> I think the Champions Universe and C:NM (so far) both just kept adding stuff
>to the current day, rather than advancing the "world status".
The Champions: The New Millennium setting will be advancing the "world status"
in the forthcoming cycle of books, beginning with Champions Worldwide and
continuing through the VIPER and UNTIL books. Some events are occurring which
can serve to generate some very interesting adventures for the heroes, and the
world won't be quite the same afterwards. Though I suppose you could ignore
those events if you wanted to, as the fundamental institutions will still be
around, but some of the relationships may alter.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca from opus@sprint.ca server @hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca ip 207.107.250.175
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:11:58 -0400
From: Cory Conrad <opus@sprint.ca>
Organization: Dreamriders Workshop
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com&>
Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Hero Plus: "Cardboard Heroes"?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 160
David B Stallard wrote:
>
> Message text written by Cory Conrad
> >Currently we have all our artists wrapped up in the various comics we
> are producing for the Fuzion game system (Currently FTR: Federal
> Tactical Response, Flat Black, Revenant, and Night's Edge). That and
> there is the Cold Fuzion print magazine which is in the works.<
>
> Comics? Are these "normal" comics that will sit next to Marvel and DC on
> the shelf, or inserts that come with future game books, or something else?
Yup normal comics in every way. Plots, villains, heroes, spandex. The
only thing we are missing are the grossly out-of-proportioned
"bad-girls" which are currently saturating the market.
FTR: Federal Tactical Response, the first of the Fuzion Powered books,
is currently listed in Preview under Dreamriders Workshop and will be
available through any comic store who orders it (hint: you have to ask
them to, ususally), as well as our web site. It will be shipped to
retailers the week of June 22cnd.
> >So when we get a chance we will have honest-to-goodness comic artists
> working on cardboard miniatures.<
>
> Sounds great! Would this be something that you submit to Hero or GRG for
> publication, or a generic supplement that would be published for anyone to
> use (sorta like those generic "traps" and "dungeons" books that are out
> there)?
It will be a generic supplement that anyone can use, just like the old
SJG Cardboard Heroes were. We can also include characters which look
coincidentally just like the Heroes and villains in our comics. :)
Wether GRG wants to distribute them or not is up to Mark and his
buddies. I haven't asked them yet. Still, if there is enough demand for
them from the stores I assume it would be possible, but to start out we
will probably just release them through our web store and see how things
progress from there.
--
Cory Conrad
Dreamriders Workshop
------------------------------------------
Fuzion, Comics, and a touch of Magic
http://www.dreamriders.com/
------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:12:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 151
> > Actually, as I was pointing out, it is similar to these skills in
> > mechanics of using PRE, but separate enough to be its own skill. You can
> > attempt to teach without it, but won't really help much more than a
> > textbook. And anyone can read from a textbook. (Well, almost anyone.)
>
> Thing is, different teachers use different techniques to achieve the same
> end (keeping students interested in learning). And some do not even
> bother. The point is that you cannot roll it all up into one single skill,
> because it is really a small variety of different skills, all (or at least
> most) of which already exist.
You've made no point here, Rat.
Look at some book skills.
Computer Programmer: Different people will use different methods
to write code, really made up of a variety of different little skills.
Mechanics: Different people may have wildly different techniques
and, of course, with all the different things that can be worked on this
is really a compilation of a lot of little skills.
Seduction: (Very close to the Teaching example). Lots of
different techniques to achieve the same end. Some won't even bother.
(But yes, you can roll it up into a small variety of different skills.)
Conversation: See seduction -- lots of different techniques to get
information out of people.
Interrogation: See seduction.
Oratory: See seduction.
Persuasion: See seduction.
Deduction: Lots of different ways to come to a conclusion on
something. Again, one skill taking together a lot of techniques.
So, therefore, how can you say:
> Thing is, different teachers use different techniques to achieve the same
> end (keeping students interested in learning). And some do not even
> bother. The point is that you cannot roll it all up into one single skill,
> because it is really a small variety of different skills, all (or at least
> most) of which already exist.
Also, you say that some don't even bother, right? Well they still
have the job, so they have some skill at fulfilling the job requirements
of a teacher. There are enough things they will be obligated to do that
will be part of a PS: Teacher skill. By pulling Teaching out into its own
skill we establish a parallel with the above PRE-based skills as well as
allowing those who _aren't_ professional teachers and who don't know all
of the little things that go into teaching in a school environment to
still be effective teachers. This would allow little Aunt Betsy, NPC
extrodinaire, to teach her KS: Piano to Little Billy. (Who's actually
HeroBoy in disguise.)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:16:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 153
> > Then why buy Computer Programmin when the PS is cheaper?
>
> "Computer Programming" is used to write code. "PS: Computer Programmer" is
> used in addition to "Computer Programming" when you write lean, fast,
> well-documented code. They are complimentary, not redundant.
I knew that. The post I was referring to was suggesting that PS:
Computer Programmer would be taken if one learned the skill on the job and
would allow coding just as Computer Programmer does. That I didn't agree
with.
As a parallel, I guess, Teaching, as a skill, would allow one to
teach, to impart knowledge. PS: Teacher would allow one to do it in an
environment of 33 bored and hormone-charged teenagers.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 15:20:36 -0400
Lines: 34
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 155
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Curt Hicks writes:
> Thanks for the suggestions guys. (No, I'm not real clear on the difference
> between 'Commercial Artist' and 'Graphic Artist'.)
The degree of detail and GM's discretion.
A has "PS: Artist" 11-. B has "PS: Comerical Artist" 11-. Assume that
both are "competing" against each other in the following examples.
Scenario 1: produce an advertisement for a product. The GM should assess a
small to moderate penalty (-1 to -3) to A's roll, because his skill is not
as focused as B's.
Scenario 2: paint something, Art for Art's sake. The GM should assess a
small to moderate penalty to B's roll because the task is somewhat outside
of his skill concentration.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTerg56VRH7BJMxHAQGoEwP9E7XtSPvdBYB5pcpEr+9Eib2CdlWwlTce
Xq1PASNJTQv7JaJyrCsbYKx1epGtFg4BkI39cL6VL5Bp4r3l+Ub+jNuq5oTDbK9t
d713RONcioylNZirGESsb3DQlxhKPjD2tpBLfo1rdWvTeO5d7yfZeJyVzuA1m/0K
1PbbWmeLAmQ=
=k3Ah
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 15:23:00 -0400
Lines: 32
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 156
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Dave Mattingly writes:
> 1u Steroids: 2d6 Aid STR, lose 1/minute [16 charges]
Stimulants, not steroids.
> 1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
In a utility belt?!?! :)
I'd model it as NCMs, or a mix of a little extra Running and an NCM.
> 1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
If these are UBO, so should the skateboard.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTesE56VRH7BJMxHAQE3FQP/ZJbhyE7OB/nzMajOUwPddtsaWnKuRHHN
bWrS7OMsQVOo+h4uxewDjoXcF2FfZVogoeaqO+QQXCyVuqpuatALEv8sZ2dDea6q
BQfqHJo1AWxmsLFXgTn9D/CuoaLC46ApmcbKAIabqG007vcUvopn4xQA5MtyGmHL
VdDF6HPE72s=
=YkPy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo relia.net from mhoram@relia.net server @saturn.relia.net ip 207.173.156.8
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:32:10 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Favorite moments
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 157
Chad Riley wrote:
>
> So what are your favorite moments in Champions?
The team: Tempest (named for how well the team got along originally)
Black Cat; a martial Artist with Darkforce powers
Gibralter; a density increase brick
Thunderstike; an Energy projector with lightning and Videogame Martial
arts
Oraclese /or-a-cleez/; a flying speedster who thinks he is the herald of
Zues
Oraclese is a real 'looney'. Always doing annoying things....
Shortly after the team was formed, we were all giving speeches. Black
Cat (my character) who was a bit nervous about doing the news conferance
got booed. She found out later that Oraclese set up people to boo all
but his speech. Cat caught up to him later and tapped him on the
shoulder. He turned. Pushed martial Punch. Out cold.
A few months later, Gibralter (the team leader) has had enough of
Oraclese mouthing off, and tells him off. He does a full speed move
through on her. She braces for Knockback- end result she is stunned, and
doesn't take KB. Oraclese is out cold.
After this it became a running gag about the team one punching Oraclese.
A few months after that Oraclese gets kidnapped. We rescue him (why I
don't know) and he seems much more stable. Then another guy shows up
with oraclese face, but new powers- Telekenetic in nature. It turns out
we got a clone, and the orginization had played with his powers.
The imposter Oraclese tries a full speed move through on the original
(but improved) oraclese. He uses his TK to redirect the movement into
the ground. The clone is out cold.
Oraclese "HEY! I one punched myself!"
--
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and
goes through their pockets. -- Eddy Peters
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo eamail1.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server @eamail1.unisys.com ip 192.61.103.80
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The source of all power?
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:33:21 -0500
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 159
[The following has been translated from the Pumaese]
I for one, would like to see this.
Can you give any hints or do we all have to wait until June.
That is when it will be in the stores yes?
Also, how about power level guidelines.
Not all (read most) Comic book heroes are built on 100pt base.
I like to look at it like this: A 100pt base super is like a first
level D&D character. That's where the game system says to
start, but the typical examples from fantasy books, movies, etc.
are NOT first level characters! Your typical comic book hero is
the same (more that 100pt base) even though the system says
to start at that level. This is what causes most "munchkinism".
The GM runs a comic book like game with 100pt base (read
totally outclassed) heroes, so they have to take -873429 in
power limitations to get the active points they need to cope.
This isn't good for game balance so...
Have stuff for the San Angelo universe take this into account
by having supplements spell out what point totals its targeted
to and how to scale up/down for a given campaign power level.
Just a thought.
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:40:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 161
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, David B Stallard wrote:
> One of the selling points for San Angelo is that it explains why
> superpowers work. A weakness that has been pointed out in Champions
> Universe is that it doesn't explain why superpowers work.
>
> What I can't figure out is, why is it so important to know why energy
> blasts are possible for some people? When I think of the Marvel, DC, or
> Image universes, I don't think they've defined some all-encompassing
> power like "the Force" which allows certain people to have extraordinary
> powers.
Not entirely true; DC Comics has posited both a "metagene" and "the
Source" (capitals theirs) as an overall explanation for the existence of
superpowers, and Marvel has likewise given explanations (although I'm not
as well-versed on those).
> Some rare individuals just have laser-eyes or whatever...you accept it,
> and get on with the story. Sometimes the source of your power (such as
> being a volunteer in some experiment which granted them) is valuable to
> the campaign (maybe the lab wants to bring you back for more
> experimentation), but this varies from character to character. What
> intrinsic value is added to a campaign simply by describing a "force"
> from which all superpowers stem?
Cohesiveness and believability. If a common cause for all superpowers
does not add either of these elements to your game, then by all means,
don't use them. I, OTOH, will.
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:47:21 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Favorite adventures
Cc: Champions Mailing List A <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA16685
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 165
I thought I'd expand this "favorite" theme even further, since I find this
sort of thing much more valuable as a GM than nitpicking over some obscure
rule.
What are some of your favorite adventures and/or campaign themes that you
have run or been involved in?
One of my favorite campaign themes didn't directly involve my character at
all, and the details are sketchy because I was never privy to them all.
Another player's character (a Darkness-based character who's powers were
based on his big cloak...I forget his name, but I'll call him Cloak...I
think he was based on Cloak from the Marvel comic Cloak & Dagger) was in a
hospital room guarding another PC who was in a coma. One night, this
bright light forms in the room and out steps this guy dressed like a
cowboy, except he has gnarled skin like he was undead or something. He
says something along the lines of "You have been chosen", and then he
shoots Cloak with these "soul guns" that were at his sides.
To make a long story short, this cowboy was some sort of interdimensional
guardian or hunter (hunter sounds right), and Cloak had been chosen to take
over the job. After getting shot with the soul guns, Cloak started
developing new powers (in addition to his own), and I suspect he was worth
many more points than any other PC--I think there was a 2nd character sheet
that only he and the GM ever saw. I think he was eventually going to be
given the soul guns, which from what I understand were mighty powerful but
which brought some added responsibility. I don't know how much Cloak's
player knew about what was happening, and the campaign disbanded before the
transformation was complete, but it was fascinating to see this play out
from the sidelines, as one of your teammates started undergoing weird
changes like having his eyes glow red and exhibiting powers you never knew
he had (like Teleportation). I don't know that I've described this very
well, since it was always sketchy to me and I was learning it as the PC and
GM revealed it to me, but I thought it was a brilliant campaign twist on
the part of the GM.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:51:17 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Professional Skills
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 164
Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
> Curt Hicks writes:
>
> > Thanks for the suggestions guys. (No, I'm not real clear on the difference
> > between 'Commercial Artist' and 'Graphic Artist'.)
>
> The degree of detail and GM's discretion.
>
Right. It's a question of scope, similar to Area Knowledge. As you say,
'commercial artist' is a specialization of 'artist' and is better at
'commercial art' than other types of art. Not being a professional artist,
the part I was unclear about was the difference, if any, between the different
art fields. e.g. 'commercial' vs. 'graphic'.
Anybody familiar with this ?
Curt
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo web2.rocketmail.com from daleaward@rocketmail.com server @web2.rocketmail.com ip 205.180.57.68
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 162
Greetings,
> Okay, this I want to know. What else can be "in the armor?" And wqhat kind
> of things can make the vest "stiffer?" I've worn various forms of real-world
> body armor for over 10 years. If there's something I haven't heard of it would
> certainly be helpful to learn about it for L&O.
>
> Mark @ GRG
I haven't caught up with all my list mail yet, so this may have already
been addressed.
Mark, I think what he was referring to are the hard plate inserts that
are available for vests like the "Second Chance". They fit into pockets in
the vest and provide a hard barrier to supplement the protection of the cloth.
Actually, I believe this results in the vest being upgraded to the next
higher item in your list. Correct me if I'm wrong. The gods know I have been
before. ;>
===
Dale A. Ward
($.02 Paid In Full)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo send1b.yahoomail.com from johndesmarais@yahoo.com server @send1b.yahoomail.com ip 205.180.60.23
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:56:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: AID to Psychological Disads.
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 166
---JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>
> ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
> temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
> Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
> ...just wondering.
>
A Psychologiocal Limitation can be ignored by the character (in
theory) by an Ego roll. Just use an Aid to EGO, only for overcoming
Psych Lim.
-=>John D
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-1.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-1.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.131
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:56:32 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: San Angelo continuity
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id PAA17202
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 167
Message text written by Hero Games
>The Champions: The New Millennium setting will be advancing the "world
status"
in the forthcoming cycle of books, beginning with Champions Worldwide and
continuing through the VIPER and UNTIL books. Some events are occurring
which
can serve to generate some very interesting adventures for the heroes, and
the
world won't be quite the same afterwards. Though I suppose you could ignore
those events if you wanted to, as the fundamental institutions will still
be
around, but some of the relationships may alter.<
That sounds great. My concern, though, is that a player could own
supplement #1 and supplement #5 and they could seem contradictory, because
he doesn't have supplement #3 where group X switched from villain to hero
status (to throw out an example). I suppose this could promote "supplement
collecting" sorta like comic collecting, where you don't want to miss a
supplement because you'll have holes in the overall timeline. Maybe this
is a wise marketing move, to get people to buy supplements that they may
have passed over....
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo exchange-irvine.platsoft.com from dmattingly@platsoft.com server @mail.platsoft.com ip 206.215.12.10
From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:57:09 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Rat writes:
>> 1u Steroids: 2d6 Aid STR, lose 1/minute [16 charges]
>Stimulants, not steroids.
Good points, thanks.
>> 1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
>In a utility belt?!?! :)
Sure. It can be tri-folding, telescoping, or otherwise compactable. Or
in this case, the whole back of the belt contained just the skateboard.
Not everything in a utility belt has to be the size of a marker... Or
you could always just call it roller skates attachments.
>> 1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
>If these are UBO, so should the skateboard.
He has two pairs of suction cups, but only one skateboard. Any focus can
already be given to someone else.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo camel8.mindspring.com from cypriot@concentric.net server @camel8.mindspring.com ip 207.69.200.58
X-Sender: Cypriot@pop3.concentric.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:01:04 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: AID to Psychological Disads.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:27 PM 4/17/98 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
>temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
> Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
> ...just wondering.
It's an interesting idea, but I would explore ANY OTHER possible
implementation besides AID vs. Disad. The problem there is that
you would be removing points from the person's disad bonus. How
would the character make up those points?
Instead, look at something along the lines of AID PRE, where the
PRE works against the disad.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 16:06:25 -0400
Lines: 25
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> You've made no point here, Rat.
Actually, I did, you just missed it.
The point is that there is no need to start introducing new skills because
the ones you want/need are already there.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTe2QJ6VRH7BJMxHAQF4iAP+PBZFymflcCdp98WgP6Yggj1biuv1NgMQ
oXiB5ZYqYKQAyEPp+vFXKFkDY+RK2zIs2n3WWWIB3GFvTblY93C4LBm1Pitu1QxH
gxvIcIiJd/pLx3qGTZA7hquJAqTrGyMEstQVxOUyZcfKt7BZgCvUIsU1wkQO6DJC
snMVhvuMyiY=
=YDUK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mail.interhop.net from jprins@interhop.net server root@mail.interhop.net ip 204.50.138.29
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> What I can't figure out is, why is it so important to know why energy
>> blasts are possible for some people? When I think of the Marvel, DC, or
>> Image universes, I don't think they've defined some all-encompassing
>> power like "the Force" which allows certain people to have extraordinary
>> powers.
>
>Not entirely true; DC Comics has posited both a "metagene" and "the
>Source" (capitals theirs) as an overall explanation for the existence of
>superpowers, and Marvel has likewise given explanations (although I'm not
>as well-versed on those).
There are a couple; the big one is that the Celestials played genetic games
on early humanity; which would have mutations showing up when certain
background conditions were met (radiation levels, environmental changes, etc.).
But even the Champions Universe has given a reason for all the supers; in
The Zodiac Conspiracy it's the fault of Capricorn, who is going around
weakening the barriers of reality to allow for a wholesale return of
'magical' creatures. The big side-effect of all his (centuries of) work is
that superpowers are becoming more and more common. As I recall, there are a
couple of other reasons given in Champions (Q'rrrm Effect?).
But as for 'all encompassing' powers, most comic books have at least four:
Biological, Psionic, Magical, or Technological.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now, we get bigger guns."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins and Ron Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo pluto.nildram.co.uk from qts@nildram.co.uk server @pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"John P Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 20:15:35
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 154
On Thu, 16 Apr 98 20:34:49 -0400, John P Weatherman wrote:
>The second concept is, can anyone come up with a structure that
>allows for recovery every phase whether the character is acting
>or not. SPX would be a non-intelligent symbiot that is
>"rebuilding" a host constantly. Basically it feeds energy back
>into the host organism. My basic leaning would be:
Buy Regeneration.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu&> champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: AID to Psychological Disads.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:15:36 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Ahh, but then what would be the fun of playing a 24' giant with 90 STR and
60 EDr/PDr, who ran away from Viper agents because the snake motif freaked
him out, if he can just pop a pill?
(No, I don't have a character like this. It's exaggeration for effect.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JASON SULLIVAN [SMTP:RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 4:27 PM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: AID to Psychological Disads.
>
> ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
> temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
> Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
> ...just wondering.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 16:17:44 -0400
Lines: 38
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tim R Gilberg writes:
> I knew that. The post I was referring to was suggesting that PS:
> Computer Programmer would be taken if one learned the skill on the job and
> would allow coding just as Computer Programmer does. That I didn't agree
> with.
Oh, okay. Yeah, that is wrong. Like I said, they are complimentary
skills, not redundant.
> As a parallel, I guess, Teaching, as a skill, would allow one to
> teach, to impart knowledge. PS: Teacher would allow one to do it in an
> environment of 33 bored and hormone-charged teenagers.
The analogy breaks because there is no "Teaching" skill. It is more like
the example of a plumber with "PS: Plumber", which is described as being
the requisite skill to do plumber things (it specifically mentions working
with pipes). There is no "Plumbing" skill.
Is there a need for a separate Teaching skill? I don't think so, not
within the context of the game.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTe4556VRH7BJMxHAQHrRQQAqGgh45z27rtZOnvA/N4Et7ewzm061ZFn
qJTSEuHST/U2/hNAQ7m1H/q39vOtVFKq2tLcMfh8FGPLOiuKbNuL5jQRLxe0IG2D
KWcZvMk1Yd5XaIQ0QUSplmsnOB2aK0siWTQ1beAxSFGuffksiRCJA0c6Awtsypmo
n/5v4j5LkSw=
=AuUl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo dub-img-6.compuserve.com from dbstallard@compuserve.com server @dub-img-6.compuserve.com ip 149.174.206.136
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:21:14 -0400
From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
To: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by beelzebubba.sysabend.org id QAA19852
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Dataweaver
>Cohesiveness and believability. If a common cause for all superpowers
does not add either of these elements to your game, then by all means,
don't use them. I, OTOH, will.<
It seems that too many people on this list think that if you ask a question
about something, you must be opposed to it. I definitely would prefer to
have a common cause (or causes) for superpowers, because of the added link
between the PCs and the gameworld, but I don't think it's such an important
thing that Champions Universe should be considered a failure for not
including it. I realize that this isn't the only gripe against CU, but I'm
just saying that I don't find this particular omission to be a critical
flaw.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo mln.lib.ma.us from nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us server @mln.lib.ma.us ip 198.112.12.10
X-Sender: nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:23:30 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: AID to Psychological Disads.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:27 PM 4/17/98 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
>temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
> Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
> ...just wondering.
>
This is a really interesting idea, but I'd say it's definitely not legal.
There's nothing saying Aid can be used on Disads, and Disads are different
from skills and powers in a lot of ways - they can't have Advantages or
Limitations either.
Even more importantly, this could easily get unbalancing. If Aid could be
applied to Psych Lim's, it could probably be applied to any Disadvantage.
While this would provide a neat mechanic for healing (Aid to Phys. Lim.),
buy down the recovery time far enough and a character could effectively
eliminate all his or her own Disadvantages.
Still, it's an amusing thought. Hand someone's DNPC a good book and tell
them to stay out of trouble (Aid to DNPC). Reason with the psychotic who
spends his life seeking vengeance on you (Aid to Hunted.) A tempting
power...
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo jcs1.jcstate.edu from ravanos@jcs1.jcstate.edu server @jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:27:13 -0500 (EST)
From: JASON SULLIVAN <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: AID to Psychological Disads.
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@sysabend.org"
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 158
ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
...just wondering.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 16:27:25 -0400
Lines: 51
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael Nunn writes:
> Really, I will assume that you were present when I went to a 3 hour
> training course on the proper handling and safety factors of using
> SUC-Ammo. And heard something completely diffrent than I did?
DU is used against slab steel armor. It is an interesting chemical
reaction: uranium + steel + heat from impact = an alloy similar to lead:
very soft, easily melted. Thus, the "hot knife through butter" effect.
Against the modern composite armors, tungsten-carbide is as effective as
DU, without the hazards.
[...]
> Again really? Looking at the label on the ammo box setting in my
> closet, it says, Copper coated, 223. Hum... copper and teflon the same?
I did say *MILITARY* issue are steel or steel jacketed; these are the ones
with Teflon "jackets". Civilian rounds are usually copper full or
semi-jacketed. Copper is softer than steel, so causes significantly less
barrel wear than steel or steel jacketed rounds. No need for Teflon on
copper jacketed rounds.
Steel or steel jacketed ammunition is generally not available to civilians,
because it is a light armor penetrating type. They are almost always
coated with Teflon, which has given rise to the myth of the "Teflon cop
killer". It is not the Teflon, but the steel, that makes them AP.
[...]
> I was speaking in game terms, of AP useing Dark Champions as a guide
> line.
Yeah, well, Dark Champions is wrong.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTe7LJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHHWAP9EvVSS/HqkWLB1F2TqWY3A3RZmYcJH7qc
TBC4pezoL8X1NNFXQurlq3ovjAK1nGY1XTH/WMkmCaoN+q2t1IBcKCVqBYae1gxP
j8ibliMM2laWYaYgTZ1GBWviC3nPRyiXqDN4jEDIvAPKKbG0s1O+BL+73WGw+F+T
8LDjyIUcEzc=
=YJ2F
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hilltop.ic.edu from trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu server @hilltop.ic.edu ip 192.217.244.1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:28:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> > 1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
>
> In a utility belt?!?! :)
Sure, the fold-out model. I'd add a "requires DEX roll" and a
side-effect (crash) though.
> I'd model it as NCMs, or a mix of a little extra Running and an NCM.
Makes more sense, yeah.
> > 1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
>
> If these are UBO, so should the skateboard.
Nah. This would be you and the other being able to use these.
The skateboard doesn't have room for two and/or there's only one
skateboard.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo fsdgate1.han.federal.unisys.com from andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com server root@fsdgate1.HAN.Federal.Unisys.COM ip 192.62.159.20
From: "Andreano, Keith HIM,VA" <andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com>
To: "'Champions'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Favorite moments
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:37:30 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Island of Doctor Destroyer...
All heroes defeated (way outclassed)...
My brick/super genius character [Nexus]
barely manages to make it to a computer console.
Dr. Destroyer leaves in his SST [laughing maniacally]
as the Hypno Ray satellite rocket takes off.
Nexus [having computer programming, security
systems, etc. on 18-] cracks into the system.
Me: "Can I get it to self-destruct."
GM: "No, but you can affect some basic systems."
Me: "I try to set a new target for the rocket."
GM: "Roll good!"
I roll an 8, and the rocket carrying the Hypno Ray
satellite turns around, and slams right into Dr.
Destroyer's SST! We found pieces of his armor
on the sea floor. He never showed up again! ^_^
^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;^_^;^o^;
"No flames please, once burnt at the stake, twice shy!"
- Joan of Arc's .sig
Keith "Puma" Andreano andreak@vapo1.him.unisys.com
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:25:45 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Without one, characters (PC or NPC) cannot teach other characters (PC or
NPC) anything other than the most basic of skills, unless they are
professional teachers. This is important in the context of our games, since
our characters need justification for gaining in abilities. Thus, we have
Teaching skill. With this skill, the group martial artist can teach the
mentalist how to defend himself if he gets in a situation where his mental
powers can't help him. This avoids the need for the player to say "Well,
yes, I know that I have a regular job, and I have a family and I am a
superhero constantly on patrol, but somewhere I manage to squeeze in a
karate class or two. That gives me martial punch, right?" or the equally
lame "My constant superheroing over the last six months has increased my
combat skills." "How, you always stay out of sight and use your mental
blasts, illusions and control from a safe distance." "Umm...I watched the
other characters and have been secretly practicing in my room at night."
Jason "Gee, too bad we couldn't teach those people the skills they needed
to survive on their own." "Yeah, I know. We have the skills, but none of
us are professional teachers." Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 4:18 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: The Average man...
>
> Is there a need for a separate Teaching skill? I don't think so, not
> within the context of the game.
>
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should
> be
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
> \ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:28:36 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:26 PM 4/17/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David B Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: The source of all power?
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
>Message text written by GoldRushG
>> Some people have an easier time suspending their disbelief if there is a
>story-based mechanic in place to "allow" things to happen. Without it,
>there
>is nothing to fall back on, nothing to "blame" for the weirdness of the
>setting. ;) Some people don't like that.<
>
>I suppose that's understandable, but wouldn't these people have problems
>with comic books too? I'm pretty sure Marvel and Image don't have a
>"father of all powers" concept, and I'd guess that DC doesn't either.
>
>> Other benefits of defining such a force include: plot hooks, story
>threads,
>etc. But those are things we're not going to be covering for a while. We'll
>let folks romp around in the city and have fun for a while before we start
>exploring some of that stuff. ;)<
>
>I can see the benefits as far as story goes, and I'd rather have it than
>not have it, but I don't see why the lack of such a concept would be
>considered a downfall of Champions Universe. It seems like a minor detail
>when compared to all the other information that a book like CU or San
>Angelo would provide.
The problem (as I've had it given to me) is that CU doesn't only not
give a "blanket explanation" for all powers, but doesn't do very much to
really explain why *any* type of superpower works in this universe when it
wouldn't in our own. There isn't even an "X-gene" type of thing to explain
why mutants are so different from other types of paranormal.
Note that while I do consider this to be a weakness, I consider it a
fairly piddling little thing. It's others (most of whom, I think, are no
longer on this list for various reasons) who have made a big issue out of it.
Heck, I don't even know that I go along with the need for flux or Gate
Keys or that kind of thing to explain *all* paranormal abilities. It is
cool to have, and I'm not against it; it just seems like a unnecessary
thing (aside from the story hooks and such Mark mentioned).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:35:44 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: AID to Psychological Disads.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 04:01 PM 4/17/1998 -0400, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>At 03:27 PM 4/17/98 -0500, JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
>> ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
>>temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
>> Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
>> ...just wondering.
>
>It's an interesting idea, but I would explore ANY OTHER possible
>implementation besides AID vs. Disad. The problem there is that
>you would be removing points from the person's disad bonus. How
>would the character make up those points?
"Make up the points?" The Disad isn't bought bought off any more than
an Aided Power or Characteristic is being bought up.
I'd allow the construct, given this Special Effect (or certain others).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:38:11 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Block vs Dodge
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:33 PM 4/17/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> So, your opponent winds up, you say you attempt to block, he attacks and
>> IF he hits, you roll the block based on how well he hits.
>
>That makes block completely useless. Watch:
>
>First example (dodge): two characters with OCV 5, DCV 5. A is the
>attacker, D is the defender. D decides to dodge. A has a constant 25%
>chance to hit D.
>
>Second example (standard block method): D attempts to block A's strike. D
>has an 11- chance to stop the attack; if he fails, A has an 11- chance to
>hit. A has a constant, slightly less than 25% chance of hitting D.
>
>Third example (your proposed method): A announces his attack, D opts to
>block. A has an 11- chance to hit D; if he hits, D has an 11- less chance
>to block, less the difference between his DCV and the highest DCV A could
>have hit with that roll. A has at least a slightly less than 25% chance of
>hitting D, modified up based on the difference between D's DCV and the
>highest DCV A could have hit.
Why does D's DCV affect A's chance to hit in the proposed Block method,
and not in the standard block method?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:53:50 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:23 PM 4/17/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>> 1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
>
>In a utility belt?!?! :)
>
>I'd model it as NCMs, or a mix of a little extra Running and an NCM.
I tend to agree. In TUSV I make mention of muscle-powered Vehicles such
as skateboards and bicycles, which should (in most cases) be modeled as
NCMs in a Focus.
>> 1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
>
>If these are UBO, so should the skateboard.
The Skateboard is a Universal Focus (well, it really should need a
Vehicle Familiarity; even before my knees started giving way, I couldn't
ride one more than five feet or so). The Suction Cups, as Dave pointed
out, can be used simultaneously with the owner.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:57:19 -0700
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Utility Belt
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:30 AM 4/17/1998 -0700, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>Cool idea.
>
>Bob G and I are working on The Ultimate Gadgeteer, and the Utility Belt
>is definitely going to get some good coverage.
In fact, the "Utility Belt Wearer" is a Gadgeteer Archetype.
>Here's one that I tend to use:
>
>15 Belt: OAF
>1u Radios: High Range Radio Hearing, usable by 1 other
>1u Telescope: +10 Telescopic Sight
>1u Light: Change Environment @ 0 END
>1u Steroids: 2d6 Aid STR, lose 1/minute [16 charges]
>1u Duller: 1d6 Drain EGO, recover 1/minute [8 continuing charges:
>1 turn]
>1u Antidote: 5d6 Dispel Poison [16 charges]
>1u Skateboard: +5" Running @ 0 END
>1u Suction Cups: Clinging, usable by 1 other
>1u Swing Lines: 10" Swinging, usable by 1 other
>1u Parachute: 15" Gliding [1 recoverable charge]
>1u Air Bag: +15 PD [1 recoverable charge]
>1u Gas Masks: LS: Self-Contained, usable by 1 other
>1u Smoke Bomb: 1" Darkness to normal, IR [4 continuing charges:
>1 minute]
>1u Flash Bomb: 1d6 Flash explosion [4 charges]
>1u Tear Gas: 1d6 AVLD Flash defense [4 continuing charges:
>1 minute]
>--
>30 Utility Belt
>
>With all the drugs and chemicals in here, you can see that this is for a
>hero who knows his pharmacology. There are tons of other gadgets that
>can, of course, go in. Just pick a 15-point power and insert it.
>Actually, you can go up to 30-points if you want, but I stuck with 15,
>so that two gadgets can be going at once.
Another good example of a utility belt in Hero is Crusader's, in his
update in Underworld Enemies. This was a 20-point Multipower with various
10- and 20-point Powers, and even a set of two 6-point Powers and a
7-pointer that could all be used at the same time (flashlight, rebreather,
and lockpick set).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo hotline.klock.com from bob.greenwade@klock.com server @hotline.klock.com ip 198.68.19.64
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:03:25 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:42 PM 4/17/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Michael Nunn writes:
>
>> Then you can get into the specialty ammo, the so called cop killers, they
>> hit like that but are AP... scarry isn't it? Then there are the Teflon
>> coated, spent Uraninum core NATO 223 rounds. 1/4 inch plate steel
>> doesn't even slow them down...
>
>Um... bullsh--
This, of course, is a large part of why so few people on this list take
you seriously. I stopped reading this post right here (though I did go
through Michael's response to it).
First, cut the profanity.
Second, cut the hostility.
Third, back up your statements with sources.
When someone describes a firsthand experience with something and you
come around with contradictory "facts" that you refuse to back up with
personal background or some other source, it really makes you look
incredibly stupid.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo prescienttech.com from ratinox@peorth.gweep.net server @londo.prescienttech.com ip 199.103.216.62
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: The Average man...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:07:19 -0400
Lines: 26
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Goode, Jason writes:
> Without one, characters (PC or NPC) cannot teach other characters (PC or
> NPC) anything other than the most basic of skills, unless they are
> professional teachers.
This is not a justification for a *separate* teaching skill when "PS:
Teacher" already encompasses teaching, just as "PS: Plumber" encompasses
plumbing.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNTfSlp6VRH7BJMxHAQE7MgP+Nop/s5XQfGhTgWvizcHOL8N24+D3P/vN
hKYy0S3IB2StXIdXBEeg5iEYgpfGnB43hymyW7pMBRl+vGkVOu4yprd9ejZdC8ez
Jo2N+OxmFmKWCUaoOhMOX/JSoUDSRvV5ABHPyCaWA/ap/cHr5t/AusXVq4s754jo
NUIws4jaeIY=
=7xPk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo iquest3.iquest.net from bastet@iquest.net server @iquest3.iquest.net ip 209.43.20.203
X-Sender: bastet@pop.iquest.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:08:03 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: TokyoMark <bastet@iquest.net>
Subject: Babylon 5
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I have the Babylon Project RPG, and it does indeed look accurate. But
starting off running would still take alot of work. If you have not
watched all the series so far, the game gives pretty sketchy info on the
universe and seems to assume you'll be running a Earthforce game. Since
one of my thoughts was a Psicop campaign, this will still take alot of
work. Can anyone comment on the Earthforce Source book?
Thanks.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo gwa.ericsson.com from exucurt@exu.ericsson.se server @gwa.ericsson.com ip 198.215.127.2
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:11:48 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: AID to Psychological Disads.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
How about Mind Control ? Or Dispel ? Curt
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JASON SULLIVAN [SMTP:RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 4:27 PM
> > To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Subject: AID to Psychological Disads.
> >
> > ProZak has the glorious ability to create pills and liquids that
> > temporarily negate various forms of Psychological Disadas.
> > Is it possible to have an AID vs. Psychologiocal Disads?
> > ...just wondering.
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo20.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo20.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.42
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:20:30 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> Btw, I thought of another Limitation for the taser: Cannot penetrate
>Armor/rDEF.
<< Thats true, if the barbs get caught in the clothing..., then the taser
don't work, but the current CAN still pass through thick clothing... >>
So then what's wrong (in your opinion) with portraying it as an NND?
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: The Average man...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:42:12 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
It may not be for you, but it is for me.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stainless Steel Rat [SMTP:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 6:07 PM
> To: Champions
> Subject: Re: The Average man...
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Goode, Jason writes:
>
> > Without one, characters (PC or NPC) cannot teach other characters (PC or
> > NPC) anything other than the most basic of skills, unless they are
> > professional teachers.
>
> This is not a justification for a *separate* teaching skill when "PS:
> Teacher" already encompasses teaching, just as "PS: Plumber" encompasses
> plumbing.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNTfSlp6VRH7BJMxHAQE7MgP+Nop/s5XQfGhTgWvizcHOL8N24+D3P/vN
> hKYy0S3IB2StXIdXBEeg5iEYgpfGnB43hymyW7pMBRl+vGkVOu4yprd9ejZdC8ez
> Jo2N+OxmFmKWCUaoOhMOX/JSoUDSRvV5ABHPyCaWA/ap/cHr5t/AusXVq4s754jo
> NUIws4jaeIY=
> =7xPk
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should
> be
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
> \ kept under refrigeration.
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:47:56 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I suppose that's understandable, but wouldn't these people have problems
with comic books too? >>
I suppose some might. :/
<< I'm pretty sure Marvel and Image don't have a "father of all powers"
concept, and I'd guess that DC doesn't either. >>
<< I can see the benefits as far as story goes, and I'd rather have it than
not have it, but I don't see why the lack of such a concept would be
considered a downfall of Champions Universe. >>
I don't consider the downfall of the CU. I consider it a strength. The GM
can make up whatever he wants, if anything at all.
<< It seems like a minor detail when compared to all the other information
that a book like CU or San Angelo would provide. >>
You said it best yourself. "I'd rather have it than not have it."
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-SMTP: helo dillinger.io.com from traveler@io.com server traveler@dillinger.io.com ip 199.170.88.11
X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: traveler owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:48:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dataweaver <traveler@io.com>
To: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 09:39 PM 4/16/1998 -0500, Dataweaver wrote:
> >On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >> At 06:36 PM 4/16/1998 -0400, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >> >>It would be really BIG sourcebook!
> >> >
> >> >Too large. Anything over 200 pages is a hard sell, as a sourcebook.
> >> >And each genre has sub-genres and they all seem to follow entirely
> >> >different 'world assumptions'. To do justice would take 400+
> >> >pages...
> >>
> >> Which, of course, would only work in Hero Plus.
> >
> >No, it wouldn't; not unless Hero Plus decides to lower its prices
> >(hint...)
>
> I don't see what that has to do with the practicality of a huge book
> in print versus an equally huge book done electronically (especially
> since the latter would still be around $10 cheaper even as a printout
> from a three-disk set).
Oh, I'm not disputing that it would be less impractical electronically;
I'm just saying that it would still be impractical, given Hero Plus'
apparent pricing schemes.
---- Jonathan Lang <traveler@io.com> ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver ---------
Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists
GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing,
FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have
Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer.
submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness"
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo11.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo11.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.33
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:56:10 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: San Angelo continuity
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Another of San Angelo's selling points is that importance will be placed on
continuity, and supplement authors will not just be allowed to make stuff up
as they go along. Does this mean that people who only buy, say, supplement #1
and supplement #5 are going to be missing chunks of the story and might have a
hard time figuring out how the world got from #1 to #5? >>
If they are following the SA continuity, that is a distinct possibility.
That's an issue inherent in maintaining a continuity and applies to every
product that has one.
<< I guess what I'm confused about is past continuity vs future continuity.
It certainly makes sense to me that supplements would have to comply with
established groups and world events, or else get approval to introduce a new
one. >>
And that is our emphasis. Continuity between products as well as the
setting.
<< ...will the San Angelo timeline advance through various supplements with
world events similar to the Assault on Sanctuary or the temporary conquering
of SA by aliens or whatever, with future supplements referencing these events,
or will supplements essentially add new "features" (like a new villain group)
to the current day San Angelo? >>
Our intent is to introduce new elements in a logical fashion. If we
introduce aliens, there will be a story element explaining their arrival or
discovery. However, none of our products are going to be making sweeping
changes to the world. Our focus remains on San Angelo itself. Even so, we
won't be making gross cahnges to San Angelo either. The occasional bridge may
be destroyed, then rebuilt, characters die, come back again, etc., but nothing
that will invalidate an entire existing campaign that folks are playing. Just
stuff to keep it interesting and "real." ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo19.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo19.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.41
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:59:01 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: How do I...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Um... bullshit. >>
I'm no list-master, but I think it's time for you to clean up your act a bit
if you plan to stay on this list, rat. There are far more civil ways to
express an opinion, clarify and issue or correct someone's inaccurate
statement.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:03:10 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< I for one, would like to see this. Can you give any hints or do we all have
to wait until June. That is when it will be in the stores yes? >>
What are you referring to specifically? What do you want hints about? If you
haven't already, you should download the free San Angelo preview from our web
page. We're hoping for a June release. It will take another week after that
for it to hit stores.
<< Also, how about power level guidelines. >>
Guidelines in the San Angelo book? I believe those were written in about 6
months ago or more.
<< Have stuff for the San Angelo universe take this into account by having
supplements spell out what point totals its targeted to and how to scale
up/down for a given campaign power level. >>
Scaling up or down is a matter of the GM making changes to the characters
that he feels are appropriate for his campaign.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo29.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo29.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.73
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:07:49 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< Mark, I think what he was referring to are the hard plate inserts that are
available for vests like the "Second Chance". They fit into pockets in the
vest and provide a hard barrier to supplement the protection of the cloth. >>
Yes, I know what they are. They are commonly referred to as "trauma plates."
I have one written up on the equipment list I posted.
<< Actually, I believe this results in the vest being upgraded to the next
higher item in your list. Correct me if I'm wrong. The gods know I have been
before. ;> >>
No, a trauma plate is extra protection for a small portion of the vest (the
area over the heart/center chest).
What is happening is that some people are making criticisms and posting
information about subjects which they have little or no real experience or
knowledge. People can disagree with my opinions all they want. But if you're
going to talk about my profession, at least know what it is you're talking
about. <LOL>
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:09:56 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Proffesional Skills x2
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< The point is that there is no need to start introducing new skills... >>
There is nothing wrong with adding new skills. The list in teh book is not
exhaustive.
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo25.mx.aol.com from goldrushg@aol.com server @imo25.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.69
From: GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:15:31 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: The source of all power?
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
<< It is cool to have, and I'm not against it; it just seems like a
unnecessary thing (aside from the story hooks and such Mark mentioned). >>
If you don't like it, don't use it. It's just there because some people
asked for something like it. Better to have and not need than not have and
need, IMO. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo imo28.mx.aol.com from herogames@aol.com server @imo28.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.17.72
From: Hero Games <HeroGames@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:40:22 EDT
To: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: RE: ANIME HERO (WAS Re: Japan Sourcebook)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 4/17/98 3:51:41 PM, traveler@io.com wrote:
>Oh, I'm not disputing that it would be less impractical electronically;
>I'm just saying that it would still be impractical, given Hero Plus'
>apparent pricing schemes.
I'm not sure what you mean. What's wrong with the Hero Plus pricing scheme?
We're offering the books for anywhere from 30% to 50% less in electronic
format than they would be in print. Basically, books of up to about 100 pages
are $10; books up to about 250 pages are $15; and larger books are $20. That's
all based on our production costs, and I think it's also important to note
that for copies we sell direct (through our web site or at cons) the creators
get 30% of that revenue.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo x6.boston.juno.com from dwtoomey@juno.com server @x6.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.23
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:47:29 -0500
Subject: Re: (L&O) Some Cop Equipment
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10,12-22,24-44
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:39:54 EDT GoldRushG <GoldRushG@aol.com> writes:
><< Shouldn't that be discriminatory? As built, all you get is "That's
>Fast"
>or
>something like that. >>
>
> Actually I meant "speed" as in "MPH/KPH."
Perhaps I've read it wrong, but I've always treated straight detect as
binary, i.e.,
"Detect Gold" = Yes, this is gold or No, this is Not gold. Normally
detailed
descriprions require Discriminatory.
>It wouldn't be
>disriminatory
>because it cannot tell one vehicle from another... only the speed that
>the
>vehicle with the strongest "signature" is traveling at.
I can see a limitation on the power to simulate this....Please note, I
don't
disagree with you on what the device actually does- you seem to have much
more experience here- only with the mechanics to simulate it.
><< Also, why make it a sense? Does it go off by itself? >>
>
> Yes, actually. It can be manually turned "on" and "off," or simply
>left on,
>constantly displaying and updating the speed of the signature vehicle.
>
If so, how does the Concentrate limitation come into play?
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo m4.boston.juno.com from llwatts@juno.com server @m4.boston.juno.com ip 205.231.101.198
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Politics in the game)
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,13-14,30-32
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:26:44 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >US patriotic (conservative) groups (Primus) shown in negative way.
If I'm reading this right, patriotic=conservative. Sorry, I've met
liberals who may not have been superpatriots to the 25 point level but
who were definitly patriotic.
I prefer the version of PRIMUS that Shelley has on her web site to the
original Organizations Book, but we're discussing published works, and
the PRIMUS Sourcebook isn't out yet. I'll agree that the higher-ups in
both SAT and the original PRIMUS were corrupt (the original Golden
Avenger was a jerk, and I'm glad Shelley killed him off), but maybe I'm
odd -- I never saw the rank and file as automatically corrupt. Yeah,
they had attitude problems, but nothing worse than many PC heroes I've
played with.
Branching off a bit (because I don't have some of the originally
referenced books), Golden Age Champions includes some Axis supers who
were pretty decent people -- considering the stereotypes of the time
period, that's a bit surprising. Veltro and Decurian are written as
heroic characters, even though they start the war as "villians" (from an
Allied point of view). Shocktrooper may be in the SS, but only because
he's got a 20 point code of honor and two SS doctors saved his life -- I
could see a group of Allied supers letting him "escape" after the war,
especially if the GM ran "Target: Skull Island". On the other hand,
Doktor Qual is evil with capital letters, underlining and all the
flourishes your WP software can handle, Vampir is described as a "racist
jerk", and Gertrude: Queen of the Jungle (why do the German females get
such dumb code names?) is a white supremacist. Now, if you want to find
evidence of "liberal" bias in that book, you can (the two smartest
members of the GOSH team are the female and the African-American).
Taking it as a whole, though, I personally find it balanced.
Leah
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo medrad.com from jgoode@medrad.com server @hq.medrad.com ip 206.138.198.2
From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@medrad.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Babylon 5
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:34:00 -0400
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Well, I have it, but since it looks like I'm not going to be playing any
time soon, I haven't read it. I heard plenty of good reviews on the B5 RPG
list and even the B5W list. I, too, think a Psi-Cop campaign would be cool.
I scanned the book for references to military teeps, but I didn't find
anything.
Jason Goode
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TokyoMark [SMTP:bastet@iquest.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 6:08 PM
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Babylon 5
>
>
> I have the Babylon Project RPG, and it does indeed look accurate. But
> starting off running would still take alot of work. If you have not
> watched all the series so far, the game gives pretty sketchy info on the
> universe and seems to assume you'll be running a Earthforce game. Since
> one of my thoughts was a Psicop campaign, this will still take alot of
> work. Can anyone comment on the Earthforce Source book?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Return-Path: <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org>
X-Authentication-Warning: beelzebubba.sysabend.org: majordom set sender to owner-champ-l@sysabend.org using -f
X-SMTP: helo legend.sat.txdirect.net from griffin@txdirect.net server root@legend.sat.txdirect.net ip 209.142.64.2
X-Sender: griffin@mail.txdirect.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:50:08 -0500
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Favorite (?) campaign moments
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Well, a *classic* moment anyway, and one of our favorite "war stories",
though we didn't enjoy it much at the time. The very first Champions game
for our group, circa 1983, had three characters: The Saint (a mentalist,
sort of a poor man's Professor X), Magnus (unimaginative and blatant
rip-off of Magneto) and Swanmay, my wife's character. She was in the
cliche lab accident, went deaf and gained a variety of sonic powers. Our
foe was to be Armadillo. Could have been tailor made for our team: a
250-pt character with Vulnerabilities to both sonic and mental attacks, and
a Susceptibility to strong magnetic fields. We should have been able to
take him, or so our GM thought.
Swanmay gets to him first and fires off a 5d6 sonic EB, which is entirely
shrugged off by his 24 ED. He retaliates by firing his 10d6 EB Blaster and
gets a pretty good damage roll. "So, how much Armor do you have?" asks the
GM. "Armor?!?" Peni says, "Steve, I'm wearing a blue leotard!" Oops.
Swanmay drops. Looks like it's all over for her, since we can't possibly
get her to a trauma center in time.
Swanmany had been given a power we didn't think we'd see for some time, if
ever. Her "Swansong" was a 0-END sonic RKA of monstrous damage (I don't
recall just how much) with a huge pile of Limitations on it to bring the
cost down to something bearable. It was a sort of "Death Blossom" attack
(remember The Last Starfighter?) that activated in the event of her
imminent death -- and only then -- with an AOE of something like a 10"
radius. Armadillo died, his henchmen died, his van was destroyed, damage
was done to the fountain and front steps of the museum where this took
place...it was a mess. The whole thing took place before Magnus and the
Saint had quite got into position, so being outside the damage radius, they
survived. But we didn't let Steve GM another game for a while.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 03:47 PM