Week Ending June 27, 1998
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:10:43 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
This Subject reminds me of an aincient champs-superworld-v&v module
Any one remember "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs" ????
---------------------------------------------------------------The Eternal
Newbie
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 23:52:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Teleportation and UAO
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From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> >The actual abusive case, now that I remember more clearly, was to
>create
>> >the following crock:
>> >
>> >6 10 points COM, UBO(+1/2) Ranged(+1/2)
>> > Side Effect(-1): 12D6 EB
>> >
>> >Since a Persistent Power is on unless turned off by voluntary
>action,this can be used to put any stunned or unconscious character out
of
>the fight, without making an attack roll, or even using a half phase!
>This safeguard
>does not apply for a Persistent power if the person is unconscious:
>such
>powers are ON by default, otherwise Regeneration UBO wouldn't work.
Regen UBO would *not* work vs an unconscious target, use UAO or Aid for
that.
Yes, a persistant power is on unless turned off, but it must be
initially turned
on by conscious action, which an unconscious person just can't do.
And there is always the SFX of the power. How does the target know he
has
+10 COM to turn on in the first place, and does this knowledge include
the
fact that there is a 12d6 trap attached? In this case, as a GM I would
insist the
two pieces of information were linked, thus removing the trap value of
this power.
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:10:01 +1000
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Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
----------erm, i know it was a champs modules becasue i remember SEEING it
in
a local store. . we get all sortsa flotsam up here. . .
>
>
>
> This Subject reminds me of an aincient champs-superworld-v&v module
>
> Any one remember "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs" ????
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------The
Eternal
> Newbie
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:41:09 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: [Re: Query]
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Filksinger wrote:
> owner-champ-l@sysabend.org wrote:
> > >-1/2 limitation "shared skills" for both forms
> >
> > I think it's fine. This limits the character in that any future skills
> > learned or improved must be bought equally for both forms, since it's the
> > same person. Are all his psych lims the same as well?
>
> Yipe! I'd better spike this right now.
>
> Create a character using nothing but skills. Give him Multiform, and
> give him this limitation.
>
> He now has more points for skills than he did without Multiform. He
> has two forms _and_ more points to spend, at the same time.
>
> This is not a limitation on the Skills. It could certainly be a
> limitation on Multiform, and that's what I would recommend, but it
> doesn't limit the _skills_ at all.
>
> Note that if carried to the extreme I mentioned above, it isn't
> multiform properly at all, it is a Limited Shapeshift.
>
> Filksinger
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Okay my question is. Are both forms buying the skills with the limitation?
I.e. do they both pay 2pts for acrobatics or does one pay 2pts for acrobatcis?
I could see giving lee way for the limitation if both forms had to buy the
skills ...they're each paying for the skill but they are paying less. But if
just one form is paying for the skills then its an advantage to use with the
other form. Why not just make all his/her/its powers OIHID and by a single form
shape shift?
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Champions Listserver" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 98 10:01:50
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Drugs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:36:46 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>qts wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:59:50 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Since there is no power called "Resurrection" in the basic system,
>>
>> Repeat after me: SFX, SFX, SFX.
>
>Sigh! You just snipped everything but the restrictive clause of one
>compound sentence, and then comment on that as if it were a complete
>thought. Try re-reading the entire sentence, or better yet, the entire
>paragraph.
You mistake me: Resurrection is the SFX of the cure - I deliberately
didn't specify the game-mechanic.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Cc: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"fuzion@dour.org" <fuzion@dour.org&> "jeffj@io.com" <jeffj@io.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 98 10:04:40
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Manifestations of Magic
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 13:08:48 -0700 (PDT), Steven J. Owens wrote:
>Somebody (I *think* it was Bob Greenwade) wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:00:20 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Light will pass right through
>> >> >transparent materials as if they weren't there, but will be neatly
>> >> >reflected by polished surfaces.
>> >>
>> >> Not sure of this. Think about standing in a suit of highly polished
>> >> plate mail in bright light - you get hot.
>
> Ever stood in a suit of highly polished plate mail, in bright
>light? No, I haven't, but friends who have tell me it's not nearly as
>bad as you might think,
I have friends that do. Not to mention a friend who was in the Guards -
where they have those breastplates.
> Reaching back to an intro physics course (I have no idea how the
>current theory is), I believe that what we think of as light
>"reflecting" off a surface is actually not the photon bouncing off the
>surface. The photon hits an atom, is absorbed by the atom and kicks
>the atom (or is that an electron of the atom?) up to a higher energy
>state. The atom can't stay up at that level by itself, so it drops
>back down - in the process emitting another photon.
Yes.
> Maybe one of the resident physicists could clarify this.
Good idea.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 05:45:04 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:10 AM 6/21/1998 EDT, DocWeird@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>This Subject reminds me of an aincient champs-superworld-v&v module
>
> Any one remember "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs" ????
Seen it, played it, and recently found a copy of it on the used shelf at
the game store in Eugene (40 miles from here). It's a really cute old
module from Chaosium, and probably one of their better efforts in the
superhero genre. It did a nice job of blending humorous characters with
serious subject matter.
By the way, it has no V&V stats (at least, my copy doesn't).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 05:58:26 -0700
To: Hero List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleportation and UAO
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:37 PM 6/20/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> At 11:01 AM 6/20/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>> >The actual abusive case, now that I remember more clearly, was to create
>> >the following crock:
>> >
>> >6 10 points COM, UBO(+1/2) Ranged(+1/2)
>> > Side Effect(-1): 12D6 EB
>> >
>> >Since a Persistent Power is on unless turned off by voluntary action,
>> >this can be used to put any stunned or unconscious character out of the
>> >fight, without making an attack roll, or even using a half phase! Just
>> >in case your were curious, the GM rejected this horror out of hand.
>>
>> I don't see how this Power would have the stated effect (to put any
>> stunned or unconscious character out of the fight without making an attack
>> roll or even using a half phase). In fact, this looks like merely an
>> extremely risky power to use to just make someone look more attractive.
>
>I would thing that 12D6 of STUN, with no defenses of any kind applying,
>would put most *anyone* out of a fight. Perhaps your characters are more
>studley.
No, the characters I work with are about on par with the BBB characters.
That's why it'd be such a risky construct to use, with no positive combat
effect. Go make someone more attractive, and all of a sudden you're
unconscious and possibly dying.
>Or, perhaps you are forgetting that, in a power bought UBO, the recipient
>stands in for the owner of the power in all ways: control, END cost, and
>Side Effects, if any. This is perfectly appropriate if the power is
>being given to someone who wants it and is willing to take the Side
>Effect, and especially so if the Side Effect is part and parcel of the
>effect desired, as in the case of Negative Growth Shrinking.
I see nothing in the descriptions of either UBO nor Side Effect that
either states or clearly implies that the recipient of the Power would be
subject to Side Effects.
>The safeguard in place for UBO is that the person can normally elect not
>to use the power, thereby avoiding the side-effect. This safeguard
>does not apply for a Persistent power if the person is unconscious: such
>powers are ON by default, otherwise Regeneration UBO wouldn't work. This
>is the origin of the abuse to which I was referring, and which I
>mistakenly introduced in a discussion about UAO, which is another animal
>entirely.
The HSR states quite clearly that "Usable by Others has no effect on
unwilling targets." It's not possible to be a willing target if you're
unconscious.
Furthermore, if the Power cannot be shut off (by virtue of it being
Persistent), then the character with it would last about two Phases in my
campaign, considering he'd be taking 12d6 without defenses every Phase he
wasn't using it on someone else.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:03:02 -0400
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@omg.org>
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Seeking Modern-Day Campaigns
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Hi, all!
We have a campaign based in modern day Atlanta, Georgia. The characters
and scenarios are all woven into actual places and events in the Metro
Atlanta area. The campaign environment mostly mirrors reality, but with
a few exceptions for creative license.
As part of our game, we'd like to keep an index of other superhero
groups in the world, especially those with a web page. (Incidentally,
ours is at http://www.concentric.net/~Cypriot/gaming.) Sure, we could
make some up, but we thought it would be neater to actually use
existing campaigns, possibly trading stories or interacting with those
campaigns in the future.
If you have a superhero (or heroic) campaign set in the modern day
world -- game system is irrelevant -- please drop me a line at
Cypriot@concentric.net.
******************************************************
Live fast! Love hard! And Die with your mask on!
******************************************************
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:56:00 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
DocWeird@aol.com wrote:
>
> This Subject reminds me of an aincient champs-superworld-v&v module
>
> Any one remember "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs" ????
>
My word! I had forgotten that one. I played in it sometime in 1982 or
so. IIRC, my character was a computer nerd, and after all attempts to
get at the real villain failed, I finally decided to resolve the
situation by bombarding the IRS with fake documentation showing all his
drug income, and figuring that would tie him up for a while. The GM was
annoyed at my solution.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:04:59 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
CC: Champions Listserver <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Drugs
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
qts wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:36:46 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>
> >qts wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:59:50 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Since there is no power called "Resurrection" in the basic system,
> >>
> >> Repeat after me: SFX, SFX, SFX.
> >
> >Sigh! You just snipped everything but the restrictive clause of one
> >compound sentence, and then comment on that as if it were a complete
> >thought. Try re-reading the entire sentence, or better yet, the entire
> >paragraph.
>
> You mistake me: Resurrection is the SFX of the cure - I deliberately
> didn't specify the game-mechanic.
Then we are at loggerheads. IMHO, "Resurrection" is a game effect, not
an SFX. If someone wanted to come up with such a power in my campaign, I
would need to see a *lot* more material on how this is being done, and so
on.
Moreover, and again IMHO, the reversal condition for an all-or-nothing
transform needs to be something that, once identified, a PC could be
reasonably expected to do, or at least find someone who can do. Most
campaigns don't include "Resurrection" among the commonly-available set
of game effects.
Obviously, you are starting from markedly different assumptions. I
suspect that we will merely continue to talk past one another.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Jun 1998 21:34:57 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Robert A West writes:
>> Ranged Killing Attack
> Wrong power. Once the virus starts, I put up my Force Field and it stops
> hurting me? Use 1 1/2 D6 Drain BODY instead.
Or RKA with NND as per AC16, as I originally suggested. But either way,
your Force Field will not stop it.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Date: 21 Jun 1998 22:24:06 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Robert A West writes:
> I dislike NND RKAs that do BODY, and try to avoid them whenever possible.
> Call it an aesthetic point, if you like, or a point of sticking to the
> "official" rules. Note that Hero suggested using Drain BODY, rather than
> RKA NND Does BODY, in Hero Almanac 1, precisely because the Does BODY(+1)
> was unofficial.
Not that HA1 can be considered canonical, either :).
But it depends on whether or not your interpretation of the rules allows
for adjustment powers to reduce below 0. If they cannot (which I think is
the most internally consistant interpretation -- adjustment powers work on
active points, and Strength is the only thing in the game you can "buy"
below 0, thus is the only thing you can adjust below 0), then Drain is
somewhat less than useful for lethal effects. It can reduce someone to 0
Body, but it cannot kill him.
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From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Worst GM Mistakes
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:37:12 -0500
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Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Inspired by the latest issue of Haymaker, I request the following anti-good
game information. I'm interested in the worst mistake you ever made as a
GM, where worst is defined not only as bad at the time, but also
considering all the long-term implications. Fixes are optional :-) For
those who don't GM, but want to contribute, how about the worst GM mistake
you ever witnessed. (Worst mistake by a player is a whole separate thread,
which someone can start if they like.)
Just to break the ice, here is mine: At the beginning of my first FH
campaign, with all beginning players, I stated that "no one would die as
long as they did nothing blatantly stupid." My intent was to relax them,
so that they would attempt appropriately heroic things, without worrying
so much about the characters surviving. I promised to cheat the rolls, if
necessary, even alter reality, to get the promised result. What I got was
a bunch of players cautious to the point of tedium. Everytime one tried to
spice up the action, three others would ask if the attempt was "blatantly
stupid."
It took forever to cure this problem. In fact, I only fully cured it by
stating that not only was the "blatantly stupid" contract null and void,
but that I would cheat _no_ die rolls. When a character finally died, and
everyone realized that it wasn't the end of the world, the players started
playing the way I had originally intended.
Steven Mitchell
mdmitche@advicom.net
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:35:01 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Teleportation and UAO
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
David W Toomey wrote:
>
>
> Regen UBO would *not* work vs an unconscious target, use UAO or Aid for
> that.
> Yes, a persistant power is on unless turned off, but it must be
> initially turned
> on by conscious action, which an unconscious person just can't do.
This differs from practice where I have played. A persistent power is
deemed to be turned on by default, unless the character in question
specifies otherwise. Depending on the special effect, the power may be
always on, without being entitled to the Always On Limitation.
For this reason, Regeneration UBO is a perfectly valid way to save an
unconscious person (usually the victim of the heroes' carelessness) from
death. Come to think of it, when I asked this list, some months ago,
about precisely this power, I got not one reply firmly on the side of
UAO's being required.
Of course, this view requires that the GM disapprove any power UBO that
might be deleterious to the victim, unless the power is off by default.
This does bring up another issue about UBO: does a power UBO normally
convey information about its own use to the person receiving it?
Normally, I would think not; this is why a Persistent Force Field, bought
UBO, can be thrown around another person without his or her consent.
Next available action phase, the character can turn the power off by the
simple act of volition, "I don't want this!"
This is not very prone to abuse, with the single exception of the Side
Effect issue, for the following reason:
Power UBO(+1/4) 0 END(+1/2) Persistent(+1/2) = + 1 1/4
Power UAO(+1) 0 END(+1/2) = + 1 1/2
The first power can be avoided by anyone with a saved action, or using
an abort, or on the next action phase. The second power cannot be
avoided by the target, except by having the specified defense.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:56:03 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Hero List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Teleportation and UAO
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 03:37 PM 6/20/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
> >Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >>
> >> At 11:01 AM 6/20/1998 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
Such a lot of traffic for so minor a remark!
> >> >6 10 points COM, UBO(+1/2) Ranged(+1/2)
> >> > Side Effect(-1): 12D6 EB
Or any other persistent power (on by default) that you choose.
> >> >
> >> >Since a Persistent Power is on unless turned off by voluntary action,
> >> >this can be used to put any stunned or unconscious character out of
> >> I don't see how this Power would have the stated effect (to put any
> >> stunned or unconscious character out of the fight without making an attack
> >> roll or even using a half phase).
>
> >Or, perhaps you are forgetting that, in a power bought UBO, the recipient
> >stands in for the owner of the power in all ways: control, END cost, and
> >Side Effects, if any. This is perfectly appropriate if the power is
> >being given to someone who wants it and is willing to take the Side
> >Effect, and especially so if the Side Effect is part and parcel of the
> >effect desired, as in the case of Negative Growth Shrinking.
>
> I see nothing in the descriptions of either UBO nor Side Effect that
> either states or clearly implies that the recipient of the Power would be
> subject to Side Effects.
Interesting. It seems clear to me that it should. UBO, essentially,
allows one character to grant a power, temporarily, to another. The
character using the power gets all the benefits, and suffers all the
consequences, such as END usage. If the power is Growth, the DCV and PER
penalties are suffered by the character using the Growth, not the
character owning the Growth UBO. If the power requires a Skill Roll, it
is the user's, not the grantor's, Skill that matters. If the power
requires Concentration, then the user must Concentrate. If the power is
bought with Personal Immunity, then the user, not the grantor, has the
immunity.
There are, to be sure, obvious special-effects-determined exceptions to
each of these cases, but I am stating what I consider to be the default
case.
>
> The HSR states quite clearly that "Usable by Others has no effect on
> unwilling targets." It's not possible to be a willing target if you're
> unconscious.
Actually, you fail to quote the essential predicate clause. The HSR (p.
98) actually says:
Because the Power is under the control of the recipient,
Usable by Others has not effect on Unwilling Targets -- the
target can simply choose not to use the Power.
This says, to me anyway, that a power that is normally on, such as a
Persistent Power, can be turned off by an act of volition, but requires
an act of volition to turn it off.
> Furthermore, if the Power cannot be shut off (by virtue of it being
> Persistent), then the character with it would last about two Phases in my
> campaign, considering he'd be taking 12d6 without defenses every Phase he
> wasn't using it on someone else.
I said Persistent, not Always On!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:03:38 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Robert A West writes:
>
> >> Ranged Killing Attack
>
> > Wrong power. Once the virus starts, I put up my Force Field and it stops
> > hurting me? Use 1 1/2 D6 Drain BODY instead.
>
> Or RKA with NND as per AC16, as I originally suggested. But either way,
> your Force Field will not stop it.
I dislike NND RKAs that do BODY, and try to avoid them whenever possible.
Call it an aesthetic point, if you like, or a point of sticking to the
"official" rules. Note that Hero suggested using Drain BODY, rather than
RKA NND Does BODY, in Hero Almanac 1, precisely because the Does BODY(+1)
was unofficial.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:24:58 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions Listserver <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: STEVE LONG: UBO Issues to resolve in 5ed.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I am flagging this to Steve, since it came up deep into a thread that he
is probably no longer following, and posting to the group, because I am
sure that many people are also no longer following the discussion.
Issue #1: If a Power is bought both UBO and Persistent (or is Persistent
naturally), does it affect an unconscious or unaware person?
Argument in favor of yes: defensive powers UBO can be used on characters
without their advance knowledge. Examples include throwing one's Force
Field around a teammate, using Regeneration UBO on an unconscious victim,
etc.
Argument in favor of no: this could be used as a cheap form of UAO,
defense is to have a saved action or abort available. Helping allies and
victims who are not able to cooperate *should* be expensive.
Issue #2: If a power UBO has a Side Effect, does the Side Effect transfer
to the other character as well? (Subject to appropriate special effect,
of course.)
Argument for yes: In most cases of Side Effect, this would be natural.
For example, if Shrinking is bought with the Negative Growth Side Effect,
the character who Shrinks should lose STR, BODY, STUN and reach, not the
character who owns the Shrinking power.
Argument for no: This opens up the door to abuse, and will bedevil the GM
with a hundred requests for powers that are nothing but cheap substitutes
for UAO or NND. This is especially bad if combined with a Persistent
Power if the answer to Issue #1 is, "Yes," as well.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:07:45 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Robert A West writes:
>
> > I dislike NND RKAs that do BODY, and try to avoid them whenever possible.
> > Call it an aesthetic point, if you like, or a point of sticking to the
> > "official" rules. Note that Hero suggested using Drain BODY, rather than
> > RKA NND Does BODY, in Hero Almanac 1, precisely because the Does BODY(+1)
> > was unofficial.
>
> Not that HA1 can be considered canonical, either :)
Well, it is certainly no *less* canonical than AC.
>
> But it depends on whether or not your interpretation of the rules allows
> for adjustment powers to reduce below 0.
This is specifically discussed in HA1, and is the most straightforward
way to get an opponent's CHAR roll worse than 9-.
> If they cannot (which I think is
> the most internally consistant interpretation -- adjustment powers work on
> active points, and Strength is the only thing in the game you can "buy"
> below 0, thus is the only thing you can adjust below 0), then Drain is
> somewhat less than useful for lethal effects. It can reduce someone to 0
> Body, but it cannot kill him.
Actually, the rules on Lowering Characteristics on p. 15 prohibit selling
*any* characteristic below 1. There is *no exception* for STR. By your
logic, a Drain cannot even get a CHAR to zero, and the negative STR
listings on p. 173 should apply only to animals that one does not
normally point up explicitly, such as a small puppy that is whimpering in
a tree.
A more logical approach would seem to be that selling a CHAR below one is
prohibited to PCs: this is prevent horrors with a -100 COM. If a GM
wants to use this, instead of just piling on more points, he is either
being a munchkin himself, or the negative COM is a vital Special Effect
and it was just easier to show it explicitly. EC: Gorgon Powers, anyone?
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:39:17 +1000 (EST)
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: happyelf <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 10:37 PM 6/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Inspired by the latest issue of Haymaker, I request the following anti-good
>game information. I'm interested in the worst mistake you ever made as a
>GM, where worst is defined not only as bad at the time, but also
>considering all the long-term implications. Fixes are optional :-) For
>those who don't GM, but want to contribute, how about the worst GM mistake
>you ever witnessed. (Worst mistake by a player is a whole separate thread,
>which someone can start if they like.)
>
The worst i did was in a cyberpunk game. when a weapon goes full auto,
you get +1 to hit per 10 rounds fire. . but i played it as +1 per ROUND fires
for like a month. .. every time mr full auto stpped up to the plate.. all
the baddies fell down.
"enslve humanity willya?"
Core Alpha PBEM http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/3306/Pbem.htm
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:42:19 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: STEVE LONG: UBO Issues to resolve in 5ed.
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 98-06-21 22:30:18 EDT, robtwest@erols.com writes:
<< I am flagging this to Steve, since it came up deep into a thread that he
is probably no longer following, and posting to the group, because I am
sure that many people are also no longer following the discussion. >>
As a matter of fact, this was one I kept following, but nevertheless the
precise phrasing of the questions and summary of pro and con positions is
invaluable. Thanx, Robert!
Steve Long
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Okay, here's an odd question.
Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
England other than the Isle of Avalon?
Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
Avalon given as Avallach).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:54:28 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
>
> Okay, here's an odd question.
>
> Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> England other than the Isle of Avalon?
>
> Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
> Avalon given as Avallach).
>
Lyonesse was one. And for some reason Tir Na Nog comes to mind, though I'm
not sure it was an island. There were more listed in Kingdome of Champions..
Why do you ask ?
Curt
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> > England other than the Isle of Avalon?
> >
> > Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
> > Avalon given as Avallach).
>
> Lyonesse was one. And for some reason Tir Na Nog comes to mind, though I'm
> not sure it was an island. There were more listed in Kingdome of Champions..
>
> Why do you ask ?
A while back I mentioned I was going to run a 'normal humans transported
to a weird world' adventure, much like the anime El Hazard (among others).
The game still hasn't started, but since then I've expanded my ideas on
what the strange world is. The main kingdom is Avallach (ie Avalon) and
the surrounding kingdoms will be named after the related mythical islands.
Similar ideas will include the wreck of the USS Cyclops (found in a nearby
river), a town named Croatoan and the fact the castle dungeon contains the
mouldering ruin of an Avenger Torpedo Bomber. Oh, and maybe a life ring
from the ship used in the Philidelphia Experiment.
I'm also tying to dig up info on any mass vanishings (like whole towns) to
further add to the setting.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
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***************************************************************************
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From: Pat10355@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:07:46 EDT
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Parallel Earths
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Hi,
I just ran an adventure in which the PCs from our San Angelo: City of Heroes
campaign found themselves transported to a parallel Earth -- a version of the
Champions Universe in which Mechanon won in 1995.
The Earth is now in ruins, with the last few pockets of humanity being hunted
by Mechanon's robot forces (borrowing heavily from the Terminator films).
BTW, after Defender and Solitaire were introduced as the surviving Champions,
someone piped up with "So that means Seeker died?" and everyone applauded.
At the end of the session I killed Solitaire, their ride home, trapping them
on the other Earth for a few more adventures. :)
What are your favorite parallel Earth adventures from your own campaigns?
Patrick Sweeney
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:32:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: New Topic: Teleportation and Usable Against Others
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
> >> b) 50 10PD/10ED Force Field UAO(+1) Ranged(+1/2)
> >
> >Aid to Armour.
>
> You can Aid a power the target does not have?
It's a grey area. I'm inclined to decide on a case-by-case basis; in this
case, it seems reasonable.
> So I can buy an Aid with variable special effects and at +2 to give myself
> powers I lack, just in case.
No.
> "Oh, no Lois Lane is falling off a building and Superman
> isn't around." "Don't worry, I have a Flight Aid, Ranged."
??? Was this supposed to indicate a potential problem? I don't see it.
> >If a Power is defined to allow its user to do X, then its point cost is
> >going to be based on the usefulness of doing X. There's no reason to think
> >that the usefulness of making somebody else do X is going to be directly
> >proportional to the usefulness of doing X, so it makes no sense to change
> >a Power which does the former into one which does the latter by applying
> >a simple Modifier.
>
> So your solution is that ALL POWERS which allow its user to do X should
> cost EXACTLY THE SAME amount to effect someone else?
No. What gives you that idea?
> >> Again, Transform is inappropriate for any of the above, and UAO seems to
> >> work fairly well. Consider that Transform works very badly for any
> >> effect that should be quantifiable, since there is no point distinction
> >> between a Transform that shrinks a target to 1/8 size and one that
> >> shrinks the target to 1/32 size.
> >
> >If we assume that a target shrunk to 1/8 size has been nullified as a
> >combatant, there's no reason why they should cost differently.
>
> Actually, I would not assume that. If a mentallist is 1/8, 1/32 or even
> 1/256 his normal size, he can still be very effective.
In other words, there's still no real difference in effectiveness between
1/8 shrinking and 1/32, correct?
> > If not,
> >the two should be different levels of Transform. (Yes, Transform suffers
> >from an overly coarse granularity, but that's a separate issue.)
>
> Yes, Transform suffers from overly coarse granularity, that's why it should
> not be used to model powers which have game descriptions.
Because Transform suffers from overly coarse granularity, it shouldn't be
used to model effects which involve transforming your target? Wouldn't a
more reasonable response be to come up with a more detailed model for
Transform?
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:51:08 +0200
From: Rog <uraeus@bunt.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> Okay, here's an odd question.
>
> Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> England other than the Isle of Avalon?
>
> Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
> Avalon given as Avallach).
>
Isn't Ys supposed to be around there somewhere? Not an island but
on the continent jutting out up around England somewhere....I could
be sadly mistaken/confused...I'm not that familiar with Ys.
-Roger
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:05:05 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Parallel Earths
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Pat10355@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
<Snip>
> What are your favorite parallel Earth adventures from your own campaigns?
>
> Patrick Sweeney
<note- spolers for menace out of time, and the Horror world from 3-D>
Mine was a combination time travel/alternate earth.
It all started innocent enough. Menaces from out of time started
appearing and assualting the heroes. (using the 'menace out of time plot
from one of the Champs presents). Dinos then a cyborg cop, then Thor;
who singled out the mage as his primary targer and hurling invectives at
him.
The PCs then get approached by a lady who said her husband invented a
time machine and dissapears in the past. The PCs go back and get the guy
(with some Nazi fighting) and then find a way to come forward. They do,
and find the earth almost completely destroyed and in the thrall of the
Anoupholies demons. (Think Cthulu style crossed with Mosquitoes).
The PCs spend 4 or so sessions there unraveling the mystery of why/when
this happened. The peg the time in the 30's when an occult investigator
gets nabbed.They find a way to get back (and by this point the PCs (and
the inventor of the time machine) are all a little (some a lot) crazy
from exposure to the Anoupholeese. They get to the gate last gate, and
not being able to see inside the mage scries for life signs... and
recieves 12 weak human, 1 strong human and one Powerfull non-human. He
gets a lock on the non human, dive through and blast (the mage with the
most powerfull spell he could make). They blast Thor, who is fighting
the possessed summoner of the Anouoholese. He rants about risking his
neck to save Midgard then dissapears with a familiar time flash.
They trash the cultist, save the day, and return home; with no real
changes.
I've never run a better time travel or alternate dimension plot.
-Mhoram
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards,
for they are subtle and quick to anger. -J R R Tolkien
No matter how subtle the Wizard,
a knife between the shoulderblades will seriously cramp his style. -S
Brust
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:15:11 -0700
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Security System Descriptions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I'm working on a senario for a skill based character who plans to
infiltrate a villain's front company. I'm looking for ideas for security
systems that uses technology available today. I could just have him make
some die rolls, but I'd much rather be able to describe the system, and let
him come up with creative ways for cracking it.
Anyone out there have some ideas they could send my way? The building is a
four story office building, located in your average upscale business district.
Any sugestions would be most welcome.
-Nic
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| naneiden@iswest.com |
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| http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/thunder.html |
| Costumed Heroines |
| http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/index.html |
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From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
To: "Champions" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:15:31 -0700
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From: Stainless Steel Rat
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
<snip>
> But it depends on whether or not your interpretation of the rules allows
> for adjustment powers to reduce below 0. If they cannot (which I think is
> the most internally consistant interpretation -- adjustment powers work on
> active points, and Strength is the only thing in the game you can "buy"
> below 0, thus is the only thing you can adjust below 0), then Drain is
> somewhat less than useful for lethal effects. It can reduce someone to 0
> Body, but it cannot kill him.
The last time we had this debate, the last thing I posted was a letter from Bruce Harlick
(which I have subsequently lost) stating that Drain below 0 could kill. The exact relevant
words, IIRC, were "...that's the way we always played it".
You may play it however you wish (something else he said, pointing out that if you were
the GM then what you said went), but Drains that kill appear to be "official".
Filksinger
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:12:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Book Update
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
For those that care (and to prove I'm not blowing smoke outta my ass).
Kazei Five has reached the next stage of development. I've been assigned
an editor (Pat... uh.. whatshisname... he created Dr. McQuark and helped
on Normals Unbound). Anyway, he's looked at a few files, likes what he
sees and we've even ironed out file translation problems (as usual, the
Mac guy has to do all the work the PCs can't).
I've written Bruce Harlick and expect a contract soon (all I have to do is
select which characters will remain 'my' property)...
Now, if we could only get GRG to publish it!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:32:13 +0500
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:30:07 -0700, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
>What might cause 1999 to look like the '30s and '40s with a few advances,
>and what might those advances be (mass transit blimps)?
Well, I give you a good example of what the world might look like - just take a look at
the Batman Animated Series. 1990's technology mixed with a 30s/40s "look".
-=>John D.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:43:11 -0400
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Michelle Knight <mlknight@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Book Update
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:12 PM 6/22/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> I've been assigned an editor (Pat... uh.. whatshisname...
> he created Dr. McQuark and helped on Normals Unbound).
I believe your referring to Patrick Bradley, author of ATLANTIS
and co-author of NORMALS UNBOUND.
Michelle
====================================================
Michelle Knight Primary: mlknight@mindspring.com
Gold Rush Games ICQ: 2083514/ A.I.M. MLKnight01
Greensboro, NC
---------------- Freelance Editing/Layout & Design -----------------
====================================================
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 22 Jun 1998 15:00:07 -0400
Lines: 27
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Filksinger writes:
> The last time we had this debate, the last thing I posted was a letter from
> Bruce Harlick (which I have subsequently lost) stating that Drain below 0
> could kill. The exact relevant words, IIRC, were "...that's the way we
> always played it".
Like I said, it depends on how you interpret it. I am not going to argue
the point further, since it will go nowhere.
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\
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Security System Descriptions
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Date: 22 Jun 1998 15:20:35 -0400
Lines: 44
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Nic Neidenbach writes:
> I'm working on a senario for a skill based character who plans to
> infiltrate a villain's front company. I'm looking for ideas for security
> systems that uses technology available today.
Keep in mind, the security of any facility, regardless of size, is only as
strong as its weakest element. You could have a tripple deadbolt with
Medeco locks; it means squat if I can easilly kick the door down because
the frame is rotten.
The first line of defense is physical locks on the doors. The weak link
here is that you need to have one door with the lock on the outside. This
is covered by a living security guard.
Second line is an automatic monitoring system. Surveilance cameras.
Pressure sensors in the floors. Motion detectors. Again, backed up by
living security.
Third line is active security patrols, preferably in teams of two.
Last line is locks on internal doors. Conventional keyways (especially
Medeco locks... almost impossible to pick, and certainly not quickly). MAD
and magstrip keycards coded individually and maintained by a simple,
unnetworked computer on the inside of the door. Numerical code locks with
randomized displays. Fooprint scanners aren't particularly reliable, yet.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Here is my second try at the 'Wu' character design. This version drops
the Aid (upon further review it was decided that the Aid power was *not*
the effect described in the text) and adds the 'severed limb' TK power.
Any further comments?
BASE WU
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
10 STR 0 11- 100kg; 2d6
10 DEX 0 11- OCV: 3 / DCV: 3
10/20 CON 0 11-/13-
10/40 BODY 0 11-/17-
10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-
10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3
10 PRE 0 11- PRE Attack: 2d6
10 COM 0 11-
2 PD 0 Total: 2 PD
2 ED 0 Total: 2 ED
2 SPD 0 Phases: 6, 12
4 REC 0
20 END 0
20 STUN 0
Total Characteristics Cost: 0
Movement: Running: 6" / 12"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Cost Powers & Skills
Wu Powers:
13 Several Limb Control: Telekinesis: 10 STR, Fully Indirect (+3/4),
Requires a severed body part (-1/2), x2 END (-1/2), END 4
13 High Pain Threshold: CON: +10, Does not affect Figured (-1/2)
30 Immortal Body: BODY: +30, Invisible Power Effects: Sight (+1/2),
Only to Stave Off Point of Death (-2)
10 High Pain Threshold: Damage Reduction: 1/4 Energy, Resistant,
Stun Only (-1/2)
10 High Pain Threshold: Damage Reduction: 1/4 Physical, Resistant,
Stun Only (-1/2)
15 Rapid Regrowth: Does Not Bleed
14 Immortal Body: Life Support: Does Not Need to Eat, Excrete or
Sleep, Immune to Aging, Disease (and Poisons), Radiation
96 Rapid Regrowth: Regeneration: 12 BODY/Turn, Regen triggers on the
Phase *after* the Wu stops paying END (-1/4)
10 Magical Sense: Detect: Magic and Supernatural Beings, Sense,
Ranged 11-
Background Skills:
5 Inherent Magical Aptitude: Magic Skill 12-
0 Total Powers & Skills Cost
216 Total Character Cost
100+ Disadvantages
Distinctive Features:
10 Wu Aura (NC, Maj, Limited)
5 Wu Facial Marking (EC)
20 Psychological Limitation: Sense of Duty to Sanjiyan Master (to
protect and serve) (VC, S)
5 Reputation: Wu, dangerous being and guardian of a Sanjiyan 8-
76 Experience
216 Total Disadvantage Points
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:30:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
So... how much Body does the Earth have?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Yet another odd-ball Question
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:42:32 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>So... how much Body does the Earth have?
That's come up before... I believe the consensus is between 80 and 90.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:48:13 -0500 (CDT)
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Palace of Dwarves <pod@avalon.net>
Subject: Security System Descriptions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>I'm working on a senario for a skill based character who plans to
>infiltrate a villain's front company. I'm looking for ideas for security
>systems that uses technology available today. I could just have him make
>some die rolls, but I'd much rather be able to describe the system, and let
>him come up with creative ways for cracking it.
>
>Anyone out there have some ideas they could send my way? The building is a
>four story office building, located in your average upscale business district.
I've always been a fan of motion detectors. Take those and combine
then in with floors that have pressure plates and heat sensors and you have
onbe heck of a time getting around.
Security cameras are always fun. Retinal scans to gain access to
rooms is fun. 10-key pad locks on doors are always a delightful pain.
Having a couple of inches of plexi-glass drop down and trap any
intruders while the room/section of the hall fills with gas will make some
people worry.
Having IR beams set up can be nifty.
But the old ones are by far the best. I like having a well trained
animal of your choice placed as a guard. Nothing like a well trained
dobberman attacking someone.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:53:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook writes:
> So... how much Body does the Earth have?
Well, it's a simple non-living object (thus, 100 kilograms is 7 body) and
doubling the mass of an object is +1 body. It weighs approximately 6e+24
kilograms, which is 6e+22 times 100 kilograms, or roughly 2^76*100 kilograms.
Thus, the earth has 83 body.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:56:24 -0700
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net&>
Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Book Update
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:12 PM 6/22/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>For those that care (and to prove I'm not blowing smoke outta my ass).
>Kazei Five has reached the next stage of development. I've been assigned
>an editor (Pat... uh.. whatshisname... he created Dr. McQuark and helped
>on Normals Unbound). Anyway, he's looked at a few files, likes what he
>sees and we've even ironed out file translation problems (as usual, the
>Mac guy has to do all the work the PCs can't).
Pat Bradley? The self-admitted Slowest Author in the Hero Universe?
We're doomed. ;-]
>I've written Bruce Harlick and expect a contract soon (all I have to do is
>select which characters will remain 'my' property)...
>
>Now, if we could only get GRG to publish it!
That would be cool....
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:01:24 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Query
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Palace of Dwarves wrote:
>
> Character A buys Package "X" for 15 pts. [(real value 23 pts), -1/2 Limitation]
> Character B buys package "X" also at same cost.
> 30 pts. -vs.- 46 pts.
>
> Ideally the character is looking to save points. In this case 16 to
> be exact.
> Would this be a safe ruling???
Okay, I've followed this thread for a while, but have seen huge
amounts of 'What the Hell Is He Thinking!?', but few suggestions. I
have rewritten a version of Multiform just for such an occasion. Now be
it understood, this is a house rule that has only been tested in my own
campaign, but it seems to work for me.
It's based loosely on the idea of a large multipower, with slots
reflecting the different forms.
Subtract the cost of all shared skills/powers/stats from each form,
leaving an 'effective' character cost for purposes of multiform.
_Each_ form pays 1/10 of the 'effective' character cost for each
other form it can directly access.
These examples are made with random numbers for convenience, and do
not necesarily denote valid character concepts...
I.E.(1)Multiman can change from a flying EBer into a brick or an
EGOist. All of his Skills, talents, and knowledges stay the same
between forms. Total shared cost is (conveniently!) 100 points, leaving
his Flyer's 'effective' cost at 125, his Brick's 'effective' cost at 90,
and his EGOist's 'effective' cost at 110.
Since any form can change directly into any other form, the Flyer's
multiform cost is (Brick)9+(EGO)11=20 points, for a total Character cost
of 245.
The Brick's multiform cost is (Flyer)12.5+(EGO)11=23.5=23 for a total
character cost of 213
The EGOist's multiform cost is (Flyer)12.5+(Brick)9=21.5=21 for a
total cost of 231
I.E.(2)WereGuy can change from human(oid) to half-wolf to full wolf.
Some Stats/skills increase as he changes towards wolf, while some
decrease, but there are a lot of points which remain allocated
throughout all forms. His Common Cost is 125, which leaves his
effective costs at; Human - 60, HalfWolf - 110, Wolf - 75. Also, he can
only go from human to wolf through the halfwolf form, so his costs would
be;
11 points multiform cost for the Human and Wolf forms, making their
total costs 196 and 211, respectively
13.5 points for both forms on the halfwolf character sheet for a
total cost of 243.
With this method, there is also no "base" form, since all forms pay a
multiform cost. Any form can be remained in effortlessly until change
is activated. All forms are responsible for sufficient disadvantages to
cover their respective costs.
As I said, this is a method I have cobbled together for my own
purposes, but it seems to work well for me...
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Justice Inc 1999
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:30:07 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On the webrpg forum, Steve Peterson wrote that Hero is planning a new
edition of Justice Inc for 1999.
I know that he means that it will be pulp action set in the '30s & '40s, but
at first reading, it sounded like pulp action in 1999!
That brought up an interesting idea -- what if today was still the pulp
action era? What changes would need to have happened in the past?
I don't think that a rejection of factory automation and mass production
would be enough -- that was already happening by that time. What if the US
hadn't gotten into WW2?
What might cause 1999 to look like the '30s and '40s with a few advances,
and what might those advances be (mass transit blimps)?
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Cc: "'knstar69@aol.com'" <knstar69@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Parallel Earths
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:37:46 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Patrick Sweeney writes:
>I just ran an adventure in which the PCs from our San Angelo: City of
>Heroes campaign found themselves transported to a parallel Earth --
>a version of the Champions Universe in which Mechanon won in 1995.
>What are your favorite parallel Earth adventures from your own
>campaigns?
Actually, my favorite alternate Earth game was also a Mechanon one. A few
years before on this world, supers went crazy -- no one was sure why. There
was massive destruction around the world. The US became a super-free zone,
enforced by Minutemen. Hawaii had been domed in by a force wall that no one
had gotten into (and come out alive) in years. Foxbat had cyber-raided the
Swiss banks and single-handedly driven the economy to ruins.
At least, that's how it appeared at first. It was actually a character
called The Engineer. A woman thief who stumbled upon one of Mechanon's labs.
The lab, upon detecting life, tried to destroy her, but at the same time,
tried to reassemble a Mechanon body with the only available material it had
-- her.
It was a very good game. Lots more to it than that, but that covers part of
the basic premise.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:47:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Michael Surbrook writes:
> > So... how much Body does the Earth have?
>
> Well, it's a simple non-living object (thus, 100 kilograms is 7 body) and
> doubling the mass of an object is +1 body. It weighs approximately 6e+24
> kilograms, which is 6e+22 times 100 kilograms, or roughly 2^76*100 kilograms.
> Thus, the earth has 83 body.
There are, of course, those of us that thing that this rating of the
Earth's body is simply a load of hooey, and that it exposes some
of the problems with the Champions system at higher power levels...
Even remaining within the rules, the Earth is hardly an object of the same
nature as, say, a wall, since it's made up of wide bands of incredibly
varying structure (topsoil, bedrock, magma, metal core)
My general answer is 'more than you can do'. If I wanted to get specific,
I'd probably treat each hex individually with a DEF and BODY based on the
primary contents of the hex, because that seems to give more sensible
results.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> > England other than the Isle of Avalon?
>
> Lyonesse was one. And for some reason Tir Na Nog comes to mind, though I'm
> not sure it was an island. There were more listed in Kingdome of Champions..
Tir na Nog is the 'Land of Youth' from Celtic mythology - I believe it was
in fact an island. There's a good section on the Celtic Otherworld in
GURPS Celtic Myth - GURPS Places of Mystery might also be worth a look.
J, who really ought to work on his own 'young
people transported to the Otherworld' game.
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:56:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> 96 Rapid Regrowth: Regeneration: 12 BODY/Turn, Regen triggers on the
> Phase *after* the Wu stops paying END (-1/4)
Is the END referred to here the END for manipulating severed limbs, or any
END use at all (which might be better phrased as 'only when taking
Recoveries')?
Also consider a low rate of regen for when the Wu is active and a higher
one with the 'only when taking Recoveries' limitation - I seem to recall
that they would heal faster if they weren't doing other things (like
fighting, etc).
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:52:58 -0500 (CDT)
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Parallel Earths
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> What are your favorite parallel Earth adventures from your own campaigns?
>
I ran a 'Worlds of If' storyline in which the heroes were recruited to help
find and stop a group of crosstime raiders. Worlds travelled to included
1) Modern world. Despite being at the same date as the heroes home
time-line and having *FEWER* superhumans, was much more advanced technologically
and socially than the heroes homeworlds. Did the players pick up on this ?
No.
2) Roman world. Modern-day Roman empire with Roman equivalents
of the players characters from another Champions campaign,
trying to capture the characters for the gladiatorial games.
3) Swamp world. Characters were pursued through a swamp by a pack of
velociraptors.
4) Mecha world. Filled with bomb craters and wreckage. A huge mecha blocked
access to a sealed bunker the raiders were using as their base.
5) Raider's home world. A world in which the heroes stayed behind to try
and prevent World War 2 (based off Wings of the Valkyrie) and were only partly
successful.
I've also done an alternate world where the characters slowly start losing
their powers based on how long they were in the world. That didn't go over
very well.
Curt
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:07:03 -0700
To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com&>
Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:53 PM 6/22/98 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Michael Surbrook writes:
>> So... how much Body does the Earth have?
>
>Well, it's a simple non-living object (thus, 100 kilograms is 7 body) and
>doubling the mass of an object is +1 body. It weighs approximately 6e+24
>kilograms, which is 6e+22 times 100 kilograms, or roughly 2^76*100
kilograms.
>Thus, the earth has 83 body.
>
So, if I use my 3d6 KA (average damage, 10 Body) on any piece of 'Earth'
(say, a large cliff) about nine times, I can destroy the planet? Cool...
Laugh at me, will they? I'll show them all!
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From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Me and My Shadow
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:13:35 -0500
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happyelf wrote:
>Well my players actually immolated the library with oil. . .. . they
always
>do since i
>put their last set of pcs in a library full of bookworms and rot grubs. .
.
>Have much trouble converting to FH stats?
I didn't have a lot of trouble converting, except that I ran out of time
and had to just rough out most of the creatures. Also, I tend to do as
many new spells as I can, then substitute with ones I have already
converted.
Besides, the three party do-gooders plastered Dalamar in a couple of
actions. Unfortunately (for them), they knocked him out instead of killing
him. He almost got them in trouble with the local law (I had reset the
adventure in Everlund, in the Realms). They now have a major hunted. So
maybe I will get to use the spells again real soon :-)
Steven Mitchell
mdmitche@advicom.net
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:26:44 -0400
From: Patrick Bierlein <prbierlein@ntwrks.com>
Reply-To: prbierlein@ntwrks.com
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> Here is my second try at the 'Wu' character design. This version drops
> the Aid (upon further review it was decided that the Aid power was *not*
> the effect described in the text) and adds the 'severed limb' TK power.
> Any further comments?
One... and I may have missed, or it might not have been put there in the
first place for one reason or another.
Buuuut.... If I remember the Anime/Manga the Wu automaticaly dies if the
Sanjiyan master dies.
Was this not put in for a reason, or is it just to hard to create such a
disadvantage. Just thought I wouls ask. ^_^
Patrick
--
* Hoshino Ruri: MS Nadesico * Kanzaki Hitomi: Escaflowne *
* Patrick Bierlein - prbierlein@ntwrks.com
* Trade List:
http://www.ntwrks.com/~prbierlein/animelst.html
* Member/Staff: Triangle Area Anime Society (TAAS)
* NC State University - Raleigh, NC *
* Fan Subtitler: Oukami Studios (TAAS)
* Homepage: http://www.ntwrks.com/~prbierlein/oukami.html
* Ryuzaki Umi: MK Rayearth * Tachiban Maria: Sakura Taisen *
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:03:34 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: New Topic: Teleportation and Usable Against Others
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:32 PM 6/22/98 -0300, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>
>> >> b) 50 10PD/10ED Force Field UAO(+1) Ranged(+1/2)
>> >
>> >Aid to Armour.
>>
>> You can Aid a power the target does not have?
>
>It's a grey area. I'm inclined to decide on a case-by-case basis; in this
>case, it seems reasonable.
Well, I'm against it. UBO is cleaner, even witht the side effect problem
you had.
>> So I can buy an Aid with variable special effects and at +2 to give myself
>> powers I lack, just in case.
>
>No.
What's the difference? Granted the GM is insane if he allows it. But, as
a grey area it is legal.
>> "Oh, no Lois Lane is falling off a building and Superman
>> isn't around." "Don't worry, I have a Flight Aid, Ranged."
>
>??? Was this supposed to indicate a potential problem? I don't see it.
Yeah. She doesn't have flight to Aid. Can you also Drain Flight from
someone who does not have it so that when the Flight is Aided it has to
overcome the prior Drain? (I can't believe I typed that.)
>> >If a Power is defined to allow its user to do X, then its point cost is
>> >going to be based on the usefulness of doing X. There's no reason to
think
>> >that the usefulness of making somebody else do X is going to be directly
>> >proportional to the usefulness of doing X, so it makes no sense to change
>> >a Power which does the former into one which does the latter by applying
>> >a simple Modifier.
>>
>> So your solution is that ALL POWERS which allow its user to do X should
>> cost EXACTLY THE SAME amount to effect someone else?
>
>No. What gives you that idea?
Transform has one cost for all of the relavent X's. Various UBO powers
would have varying costs which for the most part balance. At worst some
power become too expensive with UBO.
>> >If we assume that a target shrunk to 1/8 size has been nullified as a
>> >combatant, there's no reason why they should cost differently.
>>
>> Actually, I would not assume that. If a mentallist is 1/8, 1/32 or even
>> 1/256 his normal size, he can still be very effective.
>
>In other words, there's still no real difference in effectiveness between
>1/8 shrinking and 1/32, correct?
No, just that size doesn't matter. :-) Seriously, some characters will be
greatly diminished in power by shrinking, some won't. That means, UBO
shrinking should cost more for greater shrinking in the cases where it will
matter.
>> > If not,
>> >the two should be different levels of Transform. (Yes, Transform suffers
>> >from an overly coarse granularity, but that's a separate issue.)
>>
>> Yes, Transform suffers from overly coarse granularity, that's why it should
>> not be used to model powers which have game descriptions.
>
>Because Transform suffers from overly coarse granularity, it shouldn't be
>used to model effects which involve transforming your target? Wouldn't a
>more reasonable response be to come up with a more detailed model for
>Transform?
No, actually, I'm one of the few on this list (I presume) who doesn't think
more granular Transform is really necessary. In fact, if you wanted it, I
would make Transform cost less for some effects:
3/die Cosmetic
5/die No real change
10/die Any same kingdom change
15/die Any change
But the 3/die level is not necessary.
Joe
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:16:42 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:53 PM 6/22/98 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Michael Surbrook writes:
>> So... how much Body does the Earth have?
>
>Well, it's a simple non-living object (thus, 100 kilograms is 7 body) and
>doubling the mass of an object is +1 body. It weighs approximately 6e+24
>kilograms, which is 6e+22 times 100 kilograms, or roughly 2^76*100
kilograms.
>Thus, the earth has 83 body.
Ah, but what's its DEF? This would matter in a rediculous high level Star
Hero Game. "Why'd you blow up the planet?!?!?" "It was easier than
finding the guy who sold me this lousy watch"[1]
Actually, that number is too low. A hex of Dirt is 16 BODY after all. If
83 is the right answer, then any 27D6 RKA could destroy it on an average
roll. (Or a 20D6 Haymaker :-)
Joe
[1] Vintage "What's New with Phil and Dixie".
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:30:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
To: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Joe Mucchiello writes:
>
> Ah, but what's its DEF? This would matter in a rediculous high level Star
> Hero Game. "Why'd you blow up the planet?!?!?" "It was easier than
> finding the guy who sold me this lousy watch"[1]
>
> Actually, that number is too low. A hex of Dirt is 16 BODY after all. If
> 83 is the right answer, then any 27D6 RKA could destroy it on an average
> roll. (Or a 20D6 Haymaker :-)
Def should probably be 70+. Given that a 27d6 RKA is equivalent to a force
which can pick up and throw a planet (405 strength) I fail to see a big problem
here.
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:51:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> > > So... how much Body does the Earth have?
> >
> > Well, it's a simple non-living object (thus, 100 kilograms is 7 body) and
> > doubling the mass of an object is +1 body. It weighs approximately 6e+24
> > kilograms, which is 6e+22 times 100 kilograms, or roughly 2^76*100 kilograms.
> > Thus, the earth has 83 body.
>
> There are, of course, those of us that thing that this rating of the
> Earth's body is simply a load of hooey, and that it exposes some
> of the problems with the Champions system at higher power levels...
Yes, while as I agree that I find it hard to believe that the Earth has
'only* 83 to 90 Body, it does provide a nice arbitrary number for me to
base Freezer's (and Cell's) world destroying ki-blasts around.
I bit silly yes, but hey, realism is *not* a strong point of Dragonball Z.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> > 96 Rapid Regrowth: Regeneration: 12 BODY/Turn, Regen triggers on the
> > Phase *after* the Wu stops paying END (-1/4)
>
> Is the END referred to here the END for manipulating severed limbs, or any
> END use at all (which might be better phrased as 'only when taking
> Recoveries')?
The Wu has to stop paying *any* END before his Regen will kick in. Hmm...
actually, it might be a good idea to phrase it as 'only in not doing any
other actions'
> Also consider a low rate of regen for when the Wu is active and a higher
> one with the 'only when taking Recoveries' limitation - I seem to recall
> that they would heal faster if they weren't doing other things (like
> fighting, etc).
Well, their base regen is described a really fast, 1 GURPS Health a second
(which is pretty close to 1 BODY a segment). In the GURPS adaption, they
don't get any regeneration until they stop burning fatigue.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:05:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Rog wrote:
> > Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> > England other than the Isle of Avalon?
> >
> > Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
> > Avalon given as Avallach).
>
> Isn't Ys supposed to be around there somewhere? Not an island but
> on the continent jutting out up around England somewhere....I could
> be sadly mistaken/confused...I'm not that familiar with Ys.
Neither am I. What the heck is Ys?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:08:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Patrick Bierlein wrote:
> Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >
> > Here is my second try at the 'Wu' character design. This version drops
> > the Aid (upon further review it was decided that the Aid power was *not*
> > the effect described in the text) and adds the 'severed limb' TK power.
> > Any further comments?
> Buuuut.... If I remember the Anime/Manga the Wu automaticaly dies if the
> Sanjiyan master dies.
>
> Was this not put in for a reason, or is it just to hard to create such a
> disadvantage. Just thought I wouls ask. ^_^
Uh... I seem to have missed that. Exactly how do you define it? A Phys
Lim? I could just make it a given, much like the Wu's Immortality. Any
suggestions?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:03:23 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@m7.sprynet.com>
Reply-To: chadriley01@sprynet.com
Organization: None
To: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net>
CC: Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org&> wcarone@leland.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Melinda and Steven Mitchell wrote:
> Inspired by the latest issue of Haymaker, I request the following anti-good
> game information. I'm interested in the worst mistake you ever made as a
> GM, where worst is defined not only as bad at the time, but also
> considering all the long-term implications. Fixes are optional :-) For
> those who don't GM, but want to contribute, how about the worst GM mistake
> you ever witnessed. (Worst mistake by a player is a whole separate thread,
> which someone can start if they like.)
My GM never made any mistakes.
He just caused the world to suffer for ours....
We hated that.
Actually, since he doesn't currently read the newsgroup. He tended to
oversestimate his players grasp of tactics and combat. We usually were not as
effective in combat as villains based on similar points. Often, particularly my
brother's characters who often seemed inspired by Wolverine, we would loose to
a particular villain dozens of times before getting lucky and KOing him or her.
Then my brother's character would kill the villain.
But I can't blame all of that on the GM.
Its just fum to bug him about it.
Ofcourse he can always counter with the time my character gave a highly
sophisticated Robot carcass to the Government for study (I was a bit naive and
he had a rather cynical view of government) what followed was about six or
eight sessions of "Big Metallic Brother"....Not good.
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From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Yet another odd-ball Question
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:26:03 -0700
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From: Dr. Nuncheon
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > Michael Surbrook writes:
> > > So... how much Body does the Earth have?
> >
<snip>
>
> My general answer is 'more than you can do'. If I wanted to get specific,
> I'd probably treat each hex individually with a DEF and BODY based on the
> primary contents of the hex, because that seems to give more sensible
> results.
Particularly since a wall of Earth thickness, made of metal, would have 55 BODY, shooting
it with 55 BODY would create a 1 meter hole, and the hole would grow to swallow the Earth
if you did 68 BODY.
Personally, I'd suggest they throw out the "+1d6 equals double force" idea entirely. The
main problem by far would be the STR chart, but simply declare that damage caused by a
punch is partly from the speed of the blow and partly from the raw force (true), and that
STR only gives raw force. Thus, doubling the lifting ability does not necessarily double
the damaging ability.
Filksinger
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:57:29 -0700
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 11:18 PM 6/22/98 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>Dave Mattingly wrote:
>>
>> That brought up an interesting idea -- what if today was still the pulp
>> action era? What changes would need to have happened in the past?
>
>I don't understand the question. What aspects of the era and genre do
>you want to preserve? Porkpie hats and running boards? Not very likely
>to survive fifty years regardless of history. The peculiar sexual
>tension as "respectable" women first begin to work outside the home in
>large numbers? Impossible to maintain over decades. The freedom of the
>police to run roughshod over people's rights? Step'n'fetchit? The usual
>suspects: blacks, foreigners and recent immigrants?
>
>>
>> What might cause 1999 to look like the '30s and '40s with a few advances,
>> and what might those advances be (mass transit blimps)?
>
>A few advances? The doubling-time of human technical knowledge has been
>shrinking steadily for two hundred years. Keeping change down to a
>level that I suspect you want would require either a major change in the
>laws of physics, thereby making transistors and fission impossible, or a
>major world disaster that virtually stopped scientific progress.
>
World War II doesn't happen. The Depression drags on, and money can't be
spent on 'pure' research. Indeed, any 'labor saving devices' are frowned on
as any and all jobs are needed. (Remember, in the 1930s, people really
believed 'machines put people out of work' -- the truth that advancing
technology creates more jobs than it costs was not known to them, and those
who held onto power preferred to keep people scared of the future). Fear of
radiation might keep television from being developed, and the lack of a
military need for codebreaking and calculation cripples early computer
development. By the 50s, a global detente between totalitarian fascism,
totalitarian communism, and the 'free world' is achieved, with a number of
small brushfire wars happening constantly but no 'big' wars. Military
'terror weapons' are refinements of those developed in WWI -- poison gas
and short-range aerial bombing. (No jets or rockets. Goddard died in
obscruity and Von Braun never got the funding he needed)
Airships are still used, because without a WW2, there was no reason to not
sell helium to the Germans, so there was no Hindenburg disaster.
Metallurgical advances and plastics have made it possible for airships to
become virtual floating ocean liners. The lack of computer technology also
cripples communication tech in general -- no cell phones, no internet, etc
-- the pace of life is slower.
Medicine is advanced by newer antibiotics and advanced surgical techniques
-- the structure of DNA remains unknown (no development of X-ray
crystallography due to no development of TV and catohde ray tech, see
above). Radios are much more advanced, though, and can pick up a wide range
of frequencies, but all broadcasts are local except for those transmitted
by wires -- no satellites due to no rocketry.
Most of the globe has been mapped by airship, but weather balloons require
human observors. Fax machines do exist, but they are very expensive and
used only by governments or large corporations. (The first working
prototype fax was built in the late 1800s! Really!)
Relatively inefficient automobiles and high fuel costs mean the suburbs
never happened. Cities are huge sprawling masses of towering skyscrapers,
with bridges and roadways and subway tunnels criss-crossing in an
incredible maze. The non-repeal of prohibition has led to multigenerational
crime families who virtually 'own' the cities.
Could be fun. The opportunities for adventure are many, and a lot of
'modern' tech can be introduced as prototypes or hidden developments. In
some areas, such as architecture, surgery, or airships, this world could be
ahead of our own.
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Me and My Shadow
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:52:39 +1000
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> happyelf wrote:
> >Well my players actually immolated the library with oil. . .. . they
> always
> >do since i
> >put their last set of pcs in a library full of bookworms and rot grubs.
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Parallel Earths
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:02:56 +1000
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> What are your favorite parallel Earth adventures from your own campaigns?
>
*No atmosphere world. The a-bomb was built with 'hefredite' detonators,
hefredite being a substance taken from a downed interdimesional spacecraft.
Hefredite only goes bang slightly if you run a current through it, but
expose it to a nuclear blast. . .and it burns off your air! all of it! the
only ones to survive were on submarines at the time, or in other sealed
areas like deep bunkers. In another version i put the civilisation in orbit
and put the immolation in 2015.
*amoeba world. the ocean is overun by a giant blob! there's no ocean
anymore, just this dang blob! Sure it converts OC to O2 at the same rate,
and clouds form above it like the old ocean, but it grabs people with
tentacles and eats them if it comes too close. . . . .put it down to a
highly mutative alien organism dropped into the ocean in 1920.
*death ray world. Someone invents (or steal from the future) an immensly
powerful death ray pistol! no-one can modify it, but they CAN reproduce it.
By
1980, death ray pistols are all over the world, with enough power to fire
through buildings and (duh) kill anything that moves.
*Someone killed death world- no-one ever dies on this mystical world in
which various mystical beings control the laws of nature, but death died.
*l*
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:18:59 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> That brought up an interesting idea -- what if today was still the pulp
> action era? What changes would need to have happened in the past?
I don't understand the question. What aspects of the era and genre do
you want to preserve? Porkpie hats and running boards? Not very likely
to survive fifty years regardless of history. The peculiar sexual
tension as "respectable" women first begin to work outside the home in
large numbers? Impossible to maintain over decades. The freedom of the
police to run roughshod over people's rights? Step'n'fetchit? The usual
suspects: blacks, foreigners and recent immigrants?
>
> What might cause 1999 to look like the '30s and '40s with a few advances,
> and what might those advances be (mass transit blimps)?
A few advances? The doubling-time of human technical knowledge has been
shrinking steadily for two hundred years. Keeping change down to a
level that I suspect you want would require either a major change in the
laws of physics, thereby making transistors and fission impossible, or a
major world disaster that virtually stopped scientific progress.
Perhaps you could be more explict about the results that you want, then
we can figure out how to get there, rather than here.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:04:36 +0200
From: Rog <uraeus@bunt.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
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Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Rog wrote:
>
> > > Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
> > > England other than the Isle of Avalon?
> > >
> > > Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
> > > Avalon given as Avallach).
> >
> > Isn't Ys supposed to be around there somewhere? Not an island but
> > on the continent jutting out up around England somewhere....I could
> > be sadly mistaken/confused...I'm not that familiar with Ys.
>
> Neither am I. What the heck is Ys?
YS: Magical city shrouded in lengend, ruled by her Nine priestesses, her
gods, and her King. Ends up sinking into the ocean.
If all my stuff hadn't just been packed away for my impending move, I
have a couple things that would help me answer your question better:
a book called King of Ys written by Poul & Karen Anderson
and The Epic of Aerth book from the Dangerous Journeys - Mythus RPG.
But as you probably don't have either..a quick search found this
website concerning the legend of Ys:
http://kemper.enst-bretagne.fr/villedys_E.html
Hope this helps out!
-Roger
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:41:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
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On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > There are, of course, those of us that thing that this rating of the
> > Earth's body is simply a load of hooey, and that it exposes some
> > of the problems with the Champions system at higher power levels...
>
> Yes, while as I agree that I find it hard to believe that the Earth has
> 'only* 83 to 90 Body, it does provide a nice arbitrary number for me to
> base Freezer's (and Cell's) world destroying ki-blasts around.
>
> I bit silly yes, but hey, realism is *not* a strong point of Dragonball Z.
Oh...you wanted to know how much BODY the Earth had in DBZ. Big
difference between that and theEarth's BODY in a more...er...serious game,
I'd think.
In a DBZ game you're either going to be rolling double armfuls of dice or
you should scale stuff down so that knockback actually /can/ take you
through a planet (without killing you, no less!). I'd arbitrarily double
or triple damage to non-living things, based on what I've seen of the
show...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:46:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: New Topic: Teleportation and Usable Against Others
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On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
> >> So I can buy an Aid with variable special effects and at +2 to give myself
> >> powers I lack, just in case.
> >
> >No.
>
> What's the difference? Granted the GM is insane if he allows it. But, as
> a grey area it is legal.
Did my previous post go missing? I think I explained this...
Aid vs. X (let's say strength) is the power.
'Chi meditation' or 'Power drugs' or 'adrenal stimulator' is the SFX.
Buying variable SFX on this power means you can increase your strength in
many different ways. It does /not/ mean you can vary the 'target' of the
Aid, because that is not SFX, it is part of the power.
If you pay the +2 for 'aid a bunch of powers at once' then your group of
powers is subject to GM approval.
OK? OK.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:51:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wu (part 2)
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On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > Buuuut.... If I remember the Anime/Manga the Wu automaticaly dies if the
> > Sanjiyan master dies.
>
> Uh... I seem to have missed that. Exactly how do you define it? A Phys
> Lim? I could just make it a given, much like the Wu's Immortality. Any
> suggestions?
Off the top of my head...
Phys Lim: Dies when 'Master' dies
or
Susceptibility: Death of Master (at a high level - this one would let the
Wu live for a few rounds and get off a final 'revenge attack', which
always appeals to me)
However, making it a 'given' is probably best, as its counteracting
another 'given'. It's not really much of a disadvantage, either, because
the ref can't have it come up without, well, killing the character.
(Although he can threaten the Wu's Sanjiyan, this triggers enough other
Psych Lims that there's too much overlap to give any points)
I'd call it a 0-pt Phys Lim: Only dies when Sanjiyan 'master' dies.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Justice Inc 1999
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:49:58 -0700
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John D writes:
>Well, I give you a good example of what the world might look like -
>just take a look at the Batman Animated Series. 1990's
>technology mixed with a 30s/40s "look".
That's kind of the look I was going for, yes.
Lizard writes:
>World War II doesn't happen. The Depression drags on, and money
>can't be spent on 'pure' research. Indeed, any 'labor saving devices'
>are frowned on as any and all jobs are needed.
That's true. I remember one early industrialist who was told that a new
device would do the work of 60 men. He told them to get rid of it and hire
60 men! Not because he was afraid of tech, but because he cared about
people.
>Fear of radiation might keep television from being developed,
...and Godzilla, too. :(
>The lack of computer technology also cripples communication
>tech in general -- no cell phones, no internet, etc -- the pace of
>life is slower.
Speed of sound communication still, right? Overseas calls are very rare.
Thanks for the ideas!
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: SteveL1979@aol.com
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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SUGGESTIONS FOR HERO 5TH EDITION
A mixed bag of ideas and comments for Steve Long.
CHARACTERISTICS:
Comeliness: Give it something to do. Yes it measures how
'attractive' someone is, but other than that it has no official game use.
Suggestion? Allow it to be used to complement many PRE skills, such as
Seduction, Persuasion, Conversation etc. Perhaps allowing it to give
additional dice for (certain) PRE attacks as well?
SKILLS:
Right now skills are either 8- Familiarities or 3 points for 9 +
CHAR/5. This can be a touch extreme, especially in a supers game. It
would be nice if provisions were made for 2 point versions of skills,
something like this:
1 8-
2 11-
3 9 + CHAR/5
Note that a modifier would have to be included to the effect that
if your 9 + CHAR/5 result *is* 11-, than you have to pay the full 3
points. There is also the problem that General Skills aren't based on a
CHAR roll, although one could make a case otherwise. ie. Animal Handler
PRE, Demo INT, Disguise INT, Electronics INT, Forgery INT, Gambling INT or
PRE, Lipreading INT (ie PER roll), Mechanics INT, Mimicry... hmmm...,
Navigation INT, Shadowing DEX, Survival INT, Ventriloquism ... hmmm...,
Weaponsmith INT. Or, just say that this rule doesn't apply to General
Skills.
Another good idea would to fully explain what a Prof Skill is used
for and what it means to have an 8-, 11- and (say) 14- in the skill.
PERKS:
Is you are Poor (-5 pts) is this a disad or placed directly on the
character sheet? (Thus lowering the overall cost of the character)
POWERS:
Adjustment powers: Can a Drain kill? And negative CHAR should be
in 5th edition.
Change Environment: Make it do something. There has been a very
interesting (and useful) CE variant posted to this list several times. I
like how it works and it allows one to create a wide number of interesting
effects.
Entangle: Can this/should this be used to create 'everyday'
objects? If not, does one use Transform? Is it a good idea to request a
'Create Object' power?
Flash Defense: Waaayy to cheap. Make it cost 2 points per point
of DEF. Or remove the minimum cost for the power.
Regeneration: Much has been said on how Fuzion does regen. I
honestly don't remember what it was, but I do know that one someone
explained how it worked I liked it better. There is also the question of
regenerating lost limbs and such, a minor point, but it would help if one
knew what the 'default' regen actually did. Also, it would be nice to
have something that would allow for 'immortal' characters, ala Highlander,
the Wu and so one. Possibly verboton in Hero, but nice.
Summon: Give it an advantage that makes the summon creature
automatically loyal to the caster.
Transform: Can this power increase a character's points total?
ADVANTAGES:
Variable Advantage: Way too expensive for what you get. Make it
+1/2.
LIMITATIONS:
Side Effects: I'd like to see this power renamed (to something
like Feedback) and a new Side Effects created that's more of an
environment effecting power. In other words use of a power with Side
Effects creates undesired secondary effects that can damage the
surrounding area, team mates and so on.
POWER FRAMEWORKS:
Aaron Allston's suggestion on using Adjustment Powers vs Elemental
Controls is a good one and should be included.
DISADVANTAGES:
I feel strongly that some sort of 'Social Status' disad is a good
one. Right now one can use Distinctive Features of possibly Phys Lims,
but a separate disad would be nice. I also like the idea of modifying
Secret ID into a more generic Secret disad, allowing for characters to
purchase 'dark secrets' that can cause problems if discovered. Finally, I
like the idea of the 1 point Quirk. I think Hero should adapt that.
COMBAT:
Clarify the hit location damage multiple chart. And how much
damage limbs can actually take. I know that the impairing/disabling rule
allow for limb loss, but can I really kill someone by hitting them in the
hand of 20 BODY? I believe the BBB says limbs can take a max of 1/3 BODY
before being destroyed, make that clear.
Missing. Where do shots go if they miss? How about missile
deflected powers? If I fire into a crowd of targets do I get an OCV
minus? What are my chances of hitting the wrong target? If I miss my
target, what is my chance of hitting someone else in the path of the
attack? Firing blindly into a crowd is a good way to create a lot of
casualties, is this an OCV 0 vs DCV 0 attack? (etc)
Odd situations: Can I Dive for Cover from a HTH attack? What
happens if my ranged attack goes through a hex occupied by someone who is
invisible? What are my chances of hitting him instead?
The throwing chart needs to be cleaned up a bit. Bricks *can't*
toss things in Hero like they can in the comics.
Superheroic genre suggestion for guns: make all HKAs & RKAs have a
STUN X of 3.
CHARACTER DESIGN:
Benchmarks of some sort are a good idea. A sampling of normals
isn't bad either. This could include a 'kid', normal (all 8s), 'Hero'
(all 10s), basic agent (ie cop), experienced combatant and so on.
Well... that's it for now. I'm sure I missed something though.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:14:29 -0700
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>Right now skills are either 8- Familiarities or 3 points for
>9 + CHAR/5. This can be a touch extreme, especially in a
>supers game. It would be nice if provisions were made for 2
>point versions of skills, something like this:
>1 8-
>2 11-
>3 9 + CHAR/5
The 2-point version I've seen that I like best is 9- that also allows the
use of skill levels (which can't be used w/ familiarities, otherwise 50
familiarities and 10 overall levels make you a skill god). This removes the
problem of what if 9 + CHAR/5 = 11, and is in effect, just removing the
CHAR/5 from the equation.
>Flash Defense: Waaayy to cheap. Make it cost 2 points per point
>of DEF. Or remove the minimum cost for the power.
Something that just came to me is: What if Flash's (and Flash Def's) cost
was based on the Time Chart? Something like: 10 points to blind a target for
1 segment, w/ +1 advantage to move it one step up the time chart. And Flash
Def would be similarly costed (-1 level on the time chart for 2 points, or
something).
This would allow the long-term blinding without a transform, which I've
never really liked. The costing probably has to be played with, though, to
make sure it's not too powerful.
Something I'd like to see, though, is no more +X points to do something, I'd
like it to all be done with advantages, instead of increasing the base cost.
>Summon: Give it an advantage that makes the summon creature
>automatically loyal to the caster.
But if the summoned creature's point cost is over the caster's cost, does it
cost 1:1 for the overage?
>Variable Advantage: Way too expensive for what you get. Make it +1/2.
Actually, I'd rather it be 2x the advantage cost, like variable limitation
is half the limitation value.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:14:57 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
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Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > Michael Surbrook writes:
> > > So... how much Body does the Earth have?
> > Thus, the earth has 83 body.
>
> There are, of course, those of us that thing that this rating of the
> Earth's body is simply a load of hooey, and that it exposes some
> of the problems with the Champions system at higher power levels...
I think that one has to distinguish between compact objects, which are
treated as a single entity, and extended objects, such as huge walls
and planets. Compact objects need to be further divided into functional
and inert objects. Exceeding the BODY of a functional object will render
it non-functional, but it still exists as an object. Note that a
character has a lot more BODY than a corpse, yet the character is not
obliterated when its BODY is exceeded.
Exceeding the BODY of an extended object merely destroys some amount of
local area of the object, generally up to a hex. One should not be able
to carry away more than a hex with non-area-effect weapons, and even a
hex is neither realistic nor, usually, dramatically appropriate.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:21:00 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Evil Doctor (Was: Drugs)
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In a message dated 98-06-21 09:03:54 EDT, bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
<< This Subject reminds me of an aincient champs-superworld-v&v module
>
> Any one remember "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs" ????
Seen it, played it, and recently found a copy of it on the used shelf at
the game store in Eugene (40 miles from here). It's a really cute old
module from Chaosium, and probably one of their better efforts in the
superhero genre. It did a nice job of blending humorous characters with
serious subject matter.
By the way, it has no V&V stats (at least, my copy doesn't). >>
It's the other one ---The Trouble w/ Havok that has the stats for all
three---my bad.
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From: SteveL1979@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:17:24 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Character Sheet
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OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
sheets.
We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for the
5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
1. Do you like the current character sheet?
a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the
character sheet?
3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System
character sheet?
Please note that this is primarily a call for suggestions, not submissions
of draft character sheets. We know that many of you have designed your own
character sheets, and what we're primarily looking for is ideas you've gleaned
from doing so. Submissions of character sheets to me, or to Hero Games,
raises a couple of problems. The first is the issue of ownership of rights to
the sheet design. The second, and perhaps more important, one is simply
trying to read them -- it wouldn't help us or you for us to try to decipher a
sheet that's been garbled through differences in platforms, mangling by
Greater Internet Demons, or my own general computer ineptitude. :) If you
have some questions or ideas about this, though, please feel free to contact
me directly.
Thanx very much for your input! If you'd rather not clutter up the list,
please feel free to respond to me directly at SteveL1979@aol.com.
Steve Long
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:18:21 -0700
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Jim Dickinson <jdickins@oregonsbest.com>
Subject: RE: Justice Inc 1999
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At 06:49 AM 6/23/98 -0700, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>John D writes:
>>Well, I give you a good example of what the world might look like -
>>just take a look at the Batman Animated Series. 1990's
>>technology mixed with a 30s/40s "look".
>
>That's kind of the look I was going for, yes.
Also, go rent "To Cast A Deadly Spell" (I am pretty sure that this is what
it is called.) It was an HBO movie that went video. The main character
was a gumshoe named H.P. Lovecraft who lives in a world where magic found
it's way back to commonality. And because there was magic to deal with,
technology didn't advance as quickly, leaving things just about as they
were in the 40s.
There was a sequel, too but I can't remember the title.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:25:52 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Security System Descriptions
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At 09:15 AM 6/22/98 -0700, Nic Neidenbach wrote:
>I'm working on a senario for a skill based character who plans to
>infiltrate a villain's front company. I'm looking for ideas for security
>systems that uses technology available today. I could just have him make
>some die rolls, but I'd much rather be able to describe the system, and let
>him come up with creative ways for cracking it.
>
>Anyone out there have some ideas they could send my way? The building is a
>four story office building, located in your average upscale business
district.
>
There was an "Adventurer's Club" issue with an article that may
help you out. I don't have the issue # at the moment (I'm away
from home), but if you haven't located it by tomorrow, I should
be able to track it down for you.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:31:33 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
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At 02:47 PM 6/22/98 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Michael Surbrook writes:
>> > So... how much Body does the Earth have?
>>
>My general answer is 'more than you can do'. If I wanted to get specific,
I'd go with that answer. Rather than waste gray matter figuring up
numbers, this is the sort of thing you can boil down to the simple
question: Does your plot require that the Earth get destroyed? If
so, then just destroy it. If not, then don't.
Incidentally, in all your calculations of mass and density, don't
forget to factor in the force of gravity, which becomes non-trivial
in a body that size.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:33:52 -0700
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>Also, go rent "To Cast A Deadly Spell"
Yes, that's the title. I've already seen it -- pretty good. Roger Rabbit
with magic instead of toons.
>There was a sequel, too but I can't remember the title.
I hadn't heard about that one.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:36:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: SteveL1979@aol.com, Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Regeneration: Much has been said on how Fuzion does regen. I
> honestly don't remember what it was, but I do know that one someone
> explained how it worked I liked it better. There is also the question of
> regenerating lost limbs and such, a minor point, but it would help if one
> knew what the 'default' regen actually did. Also, it would be nice to
> have something that would allow for 'immortal' characters, ala Highlander,
> the Wu and so one. Possibly verboton in Hero, but nice.
Let me say that I /really/ like the Fuzion regen more than HERO - not that
the mechanic is necessarily better (shortening the Recovery time for
BODY), but because of the 'regenerates lost limbs' and 'regenerates from
the dead' which make it a lot easier to do many types of characters
(including Highlanders and Wu - they regenerate from anything unless they
are decapitated or their Sanjiyan is killed, respectively)
> Summon: Give it an advantage that makes the summon creature
> automatically loyal to the caster.
I'd just call that a Follower, and buy XDM or Teleport, UBO, only vs.
Follower (probably -2 since you can't use it yourself).
> DISADVANTAGES:
>
> I feel strongly that some sort of 'Social Status' disad is a good
> one. Right now one can use Distinctive Features of possibly Phys Lims,
> but a separate disad would be nice. I also like the idea of modifying
> Secret ID into a more generic Secret disad, allowing for characters to
> purchase 'dark secrets' that can cause problems if discovered. Finally, I
> like the idea of the 1 point Quirk. I think Hero should adapt that.
YES! YES! YES! Secret, or Social Limitation, or something of the sort
would be /so/ welcome.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:41:41 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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At 02:17 PM 6/23/98 -0400, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
>sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
>1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
My main problem with the character sheets is the order in which
the information is presented. In combat, it would be nice to have
all combat related information up front (up top?) and in a clear,
concise format. Anything else (i.e. non-combat critical) can go
below, or on separate sheets, as you have plenty of time to hunt
down the info you need when out of combat.
Also, I would add a second page format for when the first page
becomes too crowded.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:47:04 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 01:52 PM 6/23/98 -0500, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>... > ... Compact objects need to be further divided into functional
>> and inert objects. Exceeding the BODY of a functional object will render
>> it non-functional, but it still exists as an object. Note that a
>> character has a lot more BODY than a corpse, yet the character is not
>> obliterated when its BODY is exceeded.
>
> How much BODY would you need to do to a character to 'atomize'
>it (SFX 'Atomic Disintergration Blast' not withstanding...).
Heh! :^) And for that matter, what's the difference between destroying
the earth and merely "breaking" it? Does it lose its largest power,
a la focussed multipower? Does it lose speed or dex a la vehicles?
What about its entangle-like properties? Do those contained on the
earth take damage from attacks targeted on the earth?
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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SteveL1979 writes:
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
> the 5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
Using the current three column layout as the base line, a variant that has
a Powers section that is two columns wide and about half a page tall would
be useful for characters with not so many powers but lots of power
modifiers on those they have.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:52:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
To: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
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... > ... Compact objects need to be further divided into functional
> and inert objects. Exceeding the BODY of a functional object will render
> it non-functional, but it still exists as an object. Note that a
> character has a lot more BODY than a corpse, yet the character is not
> obliterated when its BODY is exceeded.
How much BODY would you need to do to a character to 'atomize'
it (SFX 'Atomic Disintergration Blast' not withstanding...).
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:53:35 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Justice Inc 1999
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>
> From: Jim Dickinson <jdickins@oregonsbest.com>
>
> Also, go rent "To Cast A Deadly Spell" (I am pretty sure that this is what
> it is called.) It was an HBO movie that went video. The main character
> was a gumshoe named H.P. Lovecraft who lives in a world where magic found
> it's way back to commonality. And because there was magic to deal with,
> technology didn't advance as quickly, leaving things just about as they
> were in the 40s.
Umm..Jim. 'Cast A Deadly Spell' *takes place* in the 40's.
Highly recommended ! The sequel 'Witch Hunt' (??) takes place in the 50's.
There's analogies to the McCarthy anti-communist scares.
I recommend *against* seeing the sequel.
Curt
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From: "James Jandebeur" <James.Jandebeur@esstech.com>
To: <SteveL1979@aol.com&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:03:59 -0700
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> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
The only major problem I have with them currently is that they don't have
enough space on them for the types of characters I generally build. I like
having a full length line for my power write ups. The only way I've seen
this work for a printed out sheet is to have it on two sides, so that there
is plenty of room for full line descriptions of powers. Perhaps you could
put a section for the character's power list on the back, with the front
being for, well, everything else. This would have the added advantage of
allowing characters for heroic, non-powered games to ignore the whole thing
or put something completely different back there. Also, I do not generally
have a use for the character drawing region: those few characters I have
drawings for are on separate pages.
A seperate "background" sheet might also be nice. It could have space for a
picture, area for a description, background, attitudes, goals, and so on.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:04:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
From: "Albert Deschesne" <Psihawk@pacbell.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
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<x-html><HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Character Sheet</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Well, as you can tell from my submission to the Hero Games Website, I really dislike the current Hero character sheet designs (and because the same basic design was used for Fuzion, those too.) I mainly dislike the three column design and much prefer the longer powers area I put on mine. Actually, to see my ideas on a good sheet see my submission. I'd add more disadvantage lines to my sheet, but that's about it.<BR>
Albert<BR>
----------<BR>
>From: SteveL1979@aol.com<BR>
>To: champ-l@sysabend.org<BR>
>Subject: Character Sheet<BR>
>Date: Tue, Jun 23, 1998, 6:17 PM<BR>
><BR>
>1. Do you like the current character sheet?<BR>
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.<BR>
><BR>
>2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the<BR>
>character sheet?<BR>
><BR>
>3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System<BR>
>character sheet?<BR>
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Michael Surbrook writes:
> Comeliness: Give it something to do.
Or make it go away entirely.
[...]
> 1 8-
> 2 11-
> 3 9 + CHAR/5
Or eliminate Characteristic based rolls for skills entirely.
[...]
> Adjustment powers: Can a Drain kill? And negative CHAR should be
> in 5th edition.
I would rather not see negative characteristics at all. I like to think
that they were eliminated from the fourth edition after being officially
included in the third for a good reason: they are nonsensical without
making exceptions for everything.
> Change Environment: Make it do something.
Yep.
> Entangle: Can this/should this be used to create 'everyday'
> objects? If not, does one use Transform? Is it a good idea to request a
> 'Create Object' power?
My opinion would be to separate DEF from Body of Entangles. That is, 20
points points buys a 2DEF/2D6 Entangle, or 3 DEF/1D6, or 1 DEF/3D6, or 0
DEF/4D6, or even 4 DEF/0D6. Or something like that.
[...]
> Transform: Can this power increase a character's points total?
This is already answered in the BBB: no.
[...]
> LIMITATIONS:
> Side Effects: I'd like to see this power renamed (to something
> like Feedback)
And the hiccups ironed out (specifically, a power with Side Effects and
Activation Roll is less disadvantageous than a similar power with just Side
Effects).
[...]
> CHARACTER DESIGN:
> Benchmarks of some sort are a good idea.
Benchmarking what? Hero already has a superior version of Fuzion's "Rule
of X". Anything else will vary so widely that a simple benchmark will be
useless. A bit of common sesnse on the part of the GM will go much
further.
> A sampling of normals isn't bad either. This could include a 'kid',
> normal (all 8s), 'Hero' (all 10s), basic agent (ie cop), experienced
> combatant and so on.
Yep. That would be good.
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From: "James Jandebeur" <James.Jandebeur@esstech.com>
To: "Jason Sullivan" <ravanos@njcu.edu&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: SFX of a Speedster's Psychokinetic Force Field
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:15:30 -0700
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> C) The PK force field acts to make Marathon more aerodynamic,
>with a perfectly smooth nigh-frictionless surface at key points which
>shift as he moves.
You might take some STR, No Figured Characteristics(-1/2), Only for breaking
holds and (some) Entangles(-1/2?). That covers many of the in-game effects.
You might also consider finding out what the effects of being in a fluid
medium are in the game, and buying enough of appropriate abilities to negate
those. A couple of the Hero books, I think including Atlantis (I'm not sure
of that), have some possibilities for what penalties you normally have
underwater, and how to negate them.
Finally, buy some levels with your Running to reduce your Turn Mode, or buy
some higher point levels that can be applied to this and Move Bys and Move
Throughs.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:16:54 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Jim Dickinson <jdickins@oregonsbest.com>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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At 02:17 PM 6/23/98 -0400, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
>sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
>We know that many of you have designed your own
>character sheets, and what we're primarily looking for is ideas you've
gleaned
>from doing so.
I found that especially for convention games, it was very handy to use one
of those BIG 5x8 index cards with both sides in use. One side had all the
"character info" including non-combat skills, stats, descriptions, etc.
And the other side had "combat info" including stats, skills, powers, and
damage boxes.
Most players found this easier to get around in. When in combat, the
combat side was turned face up. When combat was over, the cards all
flipped back the other way.
It was also a good way to for me as GM to make sure that characters were
"balanced" with non-combat stuff equal to the combat stuff.
Hope this helps. It sure did for me.
Jim
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:20:53 +0000
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Suggestions
From: "Albert Deschesne" <Psihawk@pacbell.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
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<x-html><HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: 5th Edition Suggestions</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Since this is just Armor and Body UAO, i think this works pretty well (you get a cost break for the range 8-) )<BR>
<BR>
Albert<BR>
<BR>
> My suggestion, once finally ironed out, was 6 points per DEF and 4<BR>
>points per BODY (using the same proportions as Armor & BODY for a<BR>
>character). I don't know how well that works for the Hero Guys, though.<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:33:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: SFX of a Speedster's Psychokinetic Force Field
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
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Marathon is a new 'paranatural' who "evolved" due to a strange
substance that is part of an international conspiracy. After exposure,
his body went through various (painful) physiological changes. He
developed powers that allowed him to travel faster than any man, gave him
increased reaction time (especially when evading or running), and do a
number of other speedster tricks.
Marathon dosen't know it, but he also possesses psychokinetic
powers as well... The most apparent one being a special Force Field with
the following properties:
A) The psychokinetic force field provides protection from
wind-burn, small particles of dirt, rock, as well as other objects he may
encounter during a collision. The PK force field increases in durability
as he travels faster, providing more protection at higher speeds. The
force field also prevents his feet from turning into hamburger as it
strikes they strike the ground.
B) The psychokinetic force field sustains it's own sealed
system, it's internal atmosphere, humidity, pressure, and air supply being
sufficient enough to sustain Marathon at speeds most humans would have
trouble breathing at.
C) The PK force field acts to make Marathon more aerodynamic,
with a perfectly smooth nigh-frictionless surface at key points which
shift as he moves.
Ok. Pretty much I figure I have a Force Field and LS. What
modifiers do I add? Also, what about the 'frictionless' aspect? What
about any other powers or tricks that could work with this general
premise?
Any comments, questions, or critques would be appreciated.
-Jason
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:39:04 -0500
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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Steve Long wrote,
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
>sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
>1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
It's adequate. It has room for *most* of the stuff I want.
>2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the
>character sheet?
The biggest minor change I would make would be to make more room for
combat skill levels. Three little lines isn't enough. You can take the
space out of the character description area.
>3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System
>character sheet?
This is where the big change comes: I'd like to see a 2-sided version. The
single-sided version is OK for superheroic games, where you aren't carrying
around a lot of "mundane" equipment, but it runs out of space quickly when
you carry a lot of stuff around - especially if that stuff has to be
described in game terms. Sure, you can write it all in on the back, but
then what's the point of having a character sheet?
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:42:28 -0400
To: SteveL1979@aol.com, champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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Overall, I like the current character sheets. My suggestions for the 5th
edition, though, would be the following.
1. Label the "Experience" space a little more clearly to establish whether
the number indicates the number of experience points yet to be spent, or
the total experience gained, spent or unspent. I've seen different players
use the Experience space differently, which can be a little confusing when
looking over a character.
2. Leave room to record armor which doesn't correspond to the same ranges
as the basic hit locations. With current sheets it's a little awkward
recording a piece which covers only part of a location (e.g. a helm, which
covers only location 3 of the head, as I recall), or a larger piece which
covers many locations on the hit chart.
3. Make sure the character sketch templates look good. Superheroes are
pretty visual, and not all gamers are artists, so the templates are
wonderful for Champions. I never cared much, though, for the ones with
dotted lines where gloves, trunks, boots, and hair might go - that much I
can draw on my own! I'd be happy to see Mark Williams's old sketches
return; I've actually photocopied them onto current sheets. A variety of
body types (both male & female) and a sheet with the sketch space left
blank would be convenient, too. I also wouldn't mind an additional sheet
with no sketch space, but a few extra tables; this would be appropriate for
less visual characters and genres.
4. Make sure to include an additional sheet for character background, etc.
While players can always write out their origins and other details on a
blank sheet (or type them out on a word processing program, as I generally
do) it's convenient to be prompted sometimes on details like appearance
(height, eye & hair color, distinguishing features, etc.), residence, and
so on. Equipment could go on this page as well.
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, "'SteveL1979@aol.com'" <SteveL1979@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:50:03 -0700
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>1. Do you like the current character sheet?
Yes. But I don't use it. :)
>2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made
>to the character sheet?
I'd like to see a "phase clock" with active phases indicated graphically,
instead of just listed. My format for Haymaker characters shows an example
of what I'm talking about.
_ _ _ __
Ex: 1 2 |3| 4 5 |6| 7 8 |9| 10 11 |12|
- - - --
Something like that.
>3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard
>HERO System character sheet?
This wouldn't be useful in all genres, but I'd like to see a RoboTech-like
body cross section in which players could write their location BODY, perhaps
even with a cross-off-the-pips-as-their-used kind of deal like RoboTech
does.
If not that, then at least a picturized version of the hit location table.
.--
/ 3-5
| x2
\_x2
___|
/ 9
| x1
| x1
Kind of a half-silhouette, but with numbers on it. I think it'd add a little
more flavor than a regular table would.
Something I do that helps with charges characters is to create
cross-off-able boxes to keep track of charges as they're used.
Ex: Normal Arrows [][][][][][][][]
Poison Arrows [][][][]
The checkbox/crossoff/phaseclock/hitlocation metaphor seems to work well
with most people. I'd like to see (at least one version of) the character
sheet move toward that idea.
Do the same for STUN, BODY, and END. Allow (say) 50 small boxes for STUN
totals. Cross off the STUN you don't have (i.e. a 40 STUN character would
cross off the last 10). As you take damage, cross off the boxes. It becomes
a much more psychologically effective damage report. If someone has over the
max given, just have them write STUN + 20 or something.
Another thing I'd like to see is character point totals not just of
characteristics and powers, but skills and equipment as well. So instead of
100 chars + 150 powers = 250 = 100 base + 150 disads, do 100 chars + 30
skills + 50 equipment + 70 powers = 250.
Ideally, leave space for more granular detail. i.e. Doctor Skills: 15, Cop
Skills: 12, Hobbies: 5, Cop Equipment: 45, Doc Equipment: 8, etc.
Add disadvantage categories into the disad section. Physical, Mental,
Social, and Power. Perhaps even break down the disads total into its parts
like with the powers and equipment above.
You can get rid of the "standard maneuvers block." Once you get used to the
system, it's just wasted space. Leave some blank lines for maneuvers common
for that character, but that should be plenty. As long as there's a
consolidated table section in the book (like a poor man's GM's screen), the
relevant rules don't need to be reprinted on each character sheet.
If you do add a backside, as one respondent suggested, add space for
Background, Powers/Tactics, Appearance, and Quote; the standard write-up
info. It gets old bringing multiple pieces of paper for each character,
which is why I designed my own character sheet that contains all the info I
want, and no more than that.
If you want to go overboard, you can have "character class" sheets. One for
skill and equipment -heavy characters, one for stat-heavy ones (bricks and
speedsters), one for power-heavy, etc.
Steven Mitchell had several good points in Haymaker #16. One of my favorites
was "readied weapons" and "worn armor." If not in its own place on the
sheet, I'd at least like to see some heroic characters written up in the
book that have the locations of their gadgets given in the write-up (i.e.
Whip: 6d6 HA + 1" Stretching, OAF: whip hanging looped from belt).
It would be nice if the power & gadget sections had a field for name and a
separate one for mechanics. i.e. Laser Eye-Beam Blast, 10d6 EB. That would
enforce the idea of special effects.
For VPP characters, it would be nice to have a "spell list" type of area, in
which the actual known spells, common gadgets, shapeshiting forms, etc.
could be broken down into detail.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:55:10 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 02:17 PM 6/23/1998 EDT, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
>sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
>1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
>
>2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the
>character sheet?
>
>3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System
>character sheet?
Other than a "yes" which goes to the main part of 1, my answer is mostly
the same thing.
I'd like to see the Characteristics section altered slightly, so that
(a) there are spaces for Characteristic Rolls for each of the Primary
Characteristics, (b) there's enough space to write in "alternate" values
for OIHID, Battlesuit, and similar characters, and (c) there are at least
two places each under Primary and Figured Characteristics to write in
"house" Characteristics.
In the Powers/Skills section, it might be nice to separate the END and
Roll columns, or at least widen the existing column slightly so there's
plenty of space to write both in if the need arises (as with many comples
high-tech devices and Magic spells).
Oh, and two more spaces for write-in combat maneuvers would be ideal
(for those really advanced martial artists).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:02:25 -0700
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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At 02:39 PM 6/23/1998 -0500, Joe Claffey Jr. wrote:
> This is where the big change comes: I'd like to see a 2-sided version. The
>single-sided version is OK for superheroic games, where you aren't carrying
>around a lot of "mundane" equipment, but it runs out of space quickly when
>you carry a lot of stuff around - especially if that stuff has to be
>described in game terms. Sure, you can write it all in on the back, but
>then what's the point of having a character sheet?
Having a two-sided version seems to be the most popular suggestion.
Drawing together what I gather of others' ideas, and mixing in a few of
my own, maybe we could have something basic on Side One, which most
characters could use; and then four sections (two columns, each divided in
two horizontally) of Power/Skills listings on the back, which could be used
as overflow, detailed descriptions, etc. So for a gadgeteer character, he
could write in (for instance), "[15] Engram Surfer, 10d6 Mind Scan, +5 (see
back)," and the section on the back could describe the Engram Surfer and
how it turned a 10d6 Mind Scan with +5 EOCV into something costing 15 real
points. And a magician, a VPP user, or just about any other character with
several intricate powers, could do the same thing. (And Side Two could be
copied twice onto one sheet for those *really* complex character
constructions.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:08:03 -0700
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 03:09 PM 6/23/1998 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Michael Surbrook writes:
>
>> Comeliness: Give it something to do.
>
>Or make it go away entirely.
>
>[...]
>Or eliminate Characteristic based rolls for skills entirely.
Both too extreme for this edition. Maybe in Sixth (around 2010).
>> Entangle: Can this/should this be used to create 'everyday'
>> objects? If not, does one use Transform? Is it a good idea to request a
>> 'Create Object' power?
>
>My opinion would be to separate DEF from Body of Entangles. That is, 20
>points points buys a 2DEF/2D6 Entangle, or 3 DEF/1D6, or 1 DEF/3D6, or 0
>DEF/4D6, or even 4 DEF/0D6. Or something like that.
My suggestion, once finally ironed out, was 6 points per DEF and 4
points per BODY (using the same proportions as Armor & BODY for a
character). I don't know how well that works for the Hero Guys, though.
>> LIMITATIONS:
>
>> Side Effects: I'd like to see this power renamed (to something
>> like Feedback)
>
>And the hiccups ironed out (specifically, a power with Side Effects and
>Activation Roll is less disadvantageous than a similar power with just Side
>Effects).
I could be wrong, I think this assessment is pretty close to unanimous.
>> CHARACTER DESIGN:
>
>> Benchmarks of some sort are a good idea.
>
>Benchmarking what? Hero already has a superior version of Fuzion's "Rule
>of X". Anything else will vary so widely that a simple benchmark will be
>useless. A bit of common sesnse on the part of the GM will go much
>further.
One of us isn't understanding what Michael means by "benchmarks,"
because I don't see what Rule of X has to do with it.
---
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:09:44 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 01:52 PM 6/23/1998 -0500, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>... > ... Compact objects need to be further divided into functional
>> and inert objects. Exceeding the BODY of a functional object will render
>> it non-functional, but it still exists as an object. Note that a
>> character has a lot more BODY than a corpse, yet the character is not
>> obliterated when its BODY is exceeded.
>
> How much BODY would you need to do to a character to 'atomize'
>it (SFX 'Atomic Disintergration Blast' not withstanding...).
My general assumption is that when something is at negative double BODY,
it's good and well demolished. If you like that idea but want to separate
"demolished" from "atomized," you can put it at negative triple BODY.
---
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: RE: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:34:54 -0700
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Jason Sullivan writes:
>HERO lacks a point based Karma/Fate point system... the closest
>a player can get to it is Luck. Even then, it doesn't let a player pull
>off what amounts to being a 'power stunt' [borrowing from the Marvel
>SuperHeroes RPG there...].
Something I've done in the past is to kind of combine Marvel's Karma with
Star Wars' Force Points, and allow players to "burn EPs" in emergencies. 1
experience point can be used to add 10 active points to an attack or +5 to
any one roll, ONCE. It's the equivalent of buying 10 points of a power or
skill levels, with the limitations 1 charge per day -2, charge never
recovers -2, independent -2, and some other -1 lim that escapes me at the
moment.
It works out pretty well.
>...but lots of times in comics, a hero will use a 'power stunt'
>once, and then it will never been seen again...
Something I sometimes do is allow 10% of a power to be used freely for a
related power stunt. So, if a character had a 10d6 electrical EB, he could
use the equivalent of 5 points to power a toaster (4 END 1 REC Battery), or
give someone static cling (Instant Change, UAO, only to stand up hair and
stick socks to back -1), or to short out a walkman (1.5d6 dispel radio
hearing), etc.
>Would you let a character buy a one shot power of exceptional
>potency for purposes of plot?
Without a doubt. Probably more generously than you seem to be considering.
>If you were running this scenario, and Wilson had enough points to
>buy a 1 Charge Independent EB that would let him blast through the
>neo-glass chambers, would you let him buy it?
Sure. I'd allow him to keep the power, too, but make it unpleasant or
inconvenient to use. Instead of Independent, try x10 END, or 8-, or Full
Side Effects, or Extra Time: 1 Minute, or only when psych lims roll a
critical, or something else.
If he wants to start using the power more, he can gradually buy off
limitations.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.haymaker.org
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:36 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Security System Descriptions
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At 02:25 PM 6/23/1998 -0400, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>At 09:15 AM 6/22/98 -0700, Nic Neidenbach wrote:
>>I'm working on a senario for a skill based character who plans to
>>infiltrate a villain's front company. I'm looking for ideas for security
>>systems that uses technology available today. I could just have him make
>>some die rolls, but I'd much rather be able to describe the system, and let
>>him come up with creative ways for cracking it.
>>
>>Anyone out there have some ideas they could send my way? The building is a
>>four story office building, located in your average upscale business
>district.
>
>There was an "Adventurer's Club" issue with an article that may
>help you out. I don't have the issue # at the moment (I'm away
>from home), but if you haven't located it by tomorrow, I should
>be able to track it down for you.
Oh, yeah -- this was reprinted in Hero System Almanac I. The article
was written for 3rd Edition and not updated for 4th, but it should still be
useful.
---
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From: "James Jandebeur" <James.Jandebeur@esstech.com>
To: "Jason Sullivan" <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: SFX of a Speedster's Psychokinetic Force Field
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:41:16 -0700
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> Only vs. Entangles and initial holds, would be appropiate I'd
>running/moving]). Is a -1/2 Limited Power enough, though?
Probably not, I was thinking of it as being about the minimum. Especially
since it wouldn't even affect all entangles: ones that completely encase
you, for example. The way you describe it could be worth more, or you could
have it with the additional limitation Based on Running.
> All ready noted. Also, I was thinking the PK aspect of his power
>would let him pull some more of the outrageous 4-color 'tricks' (like
>running on water or up walls or shifting his inertia and stopping on a
>dime, or, like the force field, breathing at high velocity or running
>through a Sahara windstorm at MACH 1 without having your face sandblasted
>to a stump).
Running on Water: You could put the power in a Multipower with either
Swimming or Flight, which would also take into account running up buildings.
Whether you can get a Limitation for such a power (only works on surfaces)
is entirely up to your GM. Instead of running on water (every speedster
does that), you could "skip" yourself like a flat rock. Same effect, but
you'd be unique.
Running up Buildings: Instead of buying Flight, you could buy Clinging. I
just remembered: 4th edition Hero does not give a turn mode to running,
which I've always just assumed was a compensation for having to stay on the
ground (it could be an oversight, I suppose...). So you don't need the
levels for that, if your GM agrees. This also means that using Running and
Clinging has a significant advantage over Flight, and you even have a very
good special effect for it: assume that the force field can increase as
well as decrease friction in a controlled manner.
Stopping on a dime: Well, you could put a force wall in your way... There
isn't really a way that I can think of in the rules, but those movement
levels could apply to reducing the number of inches it takes to come to a
start (at 30" movement, that's 6" to stop, so 6 levels), or something like
that.
Running through the sand storm: The Force Field/LS should protect you from
its normal effects, and the Running power should generally be thought to
shield you from itself. That doesn't mean you can run full tilt into an
Adamantium wall and take no damage, but environmental effects like sand or
small stones in the air shouldn't hurt you, or at least not any more than
they normally would.
> ...can you think of more 'tricks' using PK/Speedster combos?
1. Reaction Blow: buy a Damage Shield at the Speedsters strength
2. Ranged Killing Attack: Pick up a small rock, run forward an inch (not a
game inch), and let it go...
3. The Two Inch Punch: Similar to the Killing Attack above.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Sorry none of them had
the PK included.
> In Villians Unlimited by Palladium Books, a truly cutthroat villan
>called 'Whiplash' combined clinging and super speed. He'd carry people up
>the sides of buildings at superspeed and let them go, or grab people in a
>full nelson and suddenly stop.
> ouch.
You could design a Speedster Martial Art with some maneuvers: the Crush
maneuver from Pankration might fit for the "I stop now" thing, for example.
A full move Dodge also seems appropriate. This would simulate the hours and
hours of practice you've put in honing your powers.
Well, back to work.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:47:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: SFX of a Speedster's Psychokinetic Force Field
To: James Jandebeur <James.Jandebeur@esstech.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
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On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, James Jandebeur wrote:
> You might take some STR, No Figured Characteristics(-1/2), Only for breaking
> holds and (some) Entangles(-1/2?). That covers many of the in-game effects.
Only vs. Entangles and initial holds, would be appropiate I'd
think. The second he stops moving, the force field discorporates nigh
instantaneously, though (hence, if the evil Dr. Brick or Web-o-tron caught
him whilst still, the force field couldn't help him while immobilized [not
running/moving]). Is a -1/2 Limited Power enough, though?
> You might also consider finding out what the effects of being in a fluid
> medium are in the game, and buying enough of appropriate abilities to negate
> those. A couple of the Hero books, I think including Atlantis (I'm not sure
> of that), have some possibilities for what penalties you normally have
> underwater, and how to negate them.
Anyone have any of these supplements?
> Finally, buy some levels with your Running to reduce your Turn Mode, or buy
> some higher point levels that can be applied to this and Move Bys and Move
> Throughs.
All ready noted. Also, I was thinking the PK aspect of his power
would let him pull some more of the outrageous 4-color 'tricks' (like
running on water or up walls or shifting his inertia and stopping on a
dime, or, like the force field, breathing at high velocity or running
through a Sahara windstorm at MACH 1 without having your face sandblasted
to a stump).
...can you think of more 'tricks' using PK/Speedster combos?
In Villians Unlimited by Palladium Books, a truly cutthroat villan
called 'Whiplash' combined clinging and super speed. He'd carry people up
the sides of buildings at superspeed and let them go, or grab people in a
full nelson and suddenly stop.
ouch.
-Jason
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:09:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
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HERO lacks a point based Karma/Fate point system... the closest a
player can get to it is Luck. Even then, it dosen't let a player pull
off what ammounts to being a 'power stunt' [borrowing from the Marvel
SuperHeroes RPG there...].
I've brought up buying 'on the spot' powers before on the list,
and many people said they would let a player do this provided the
characters had enough points to pay for the power on the spot.
...but lots of times in comics, a hero will use a 'power stunt'
once, and then it will never been seen again...
So, my question for all you loveable guys who run Comic Book Genre
HERO games...
Would you let a character buy a one shot power of exceptional
potency for purposes of plot?
The Endurers are a group of extra-planatary space faring men and
women branded 'mutants' who have managed to leave their home world of
Terra-Sol Prime to escape euthanization. Soon after they left, a vast
war broke out, destroying most of the population on Terra-Sol, mutants and
humans alike. Soon they find their latant powers emerging, one by one.
However, in a later session on the game, all of the chracters have
been captured by the evil OverDog, a cybernetic survivor of the catylicism
that wants to use them for vivisection and spare parts. Pretty much the
PC's are screwed, with not one living soul to rescue them in OverDog's
dungeons. Jessie Powers is now on a metal slab, prepped for her panful
'surgery', with all of her friends, and her husband Wilson Winters, are
contained in neo-glass chambers. Try as they may with their powers, the
chambers are too strong, withstanding even Wilson's hyper-blue force-bolt
eye beams.
If you were running this scenario, and Wilson had enough points to
buy a 1 Charge Independent EB that would let him blast through the
neo-glass chambers, would you let him buy it? Of course, the CP spent
would be lost for all eternity! (*gasp* the strain!), but Wilson, loving
his Jessie so much, wouldn't think twice about it.
Tell me what you think.
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:13:44 -0400
From: Joshua Krage <jkrage@access.digex.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
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On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 02:17:24PM -0400, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
> sheets.
> 3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System
> character sheet?
Lots of good suggestions have already tossed out. Mine is simple.
I want a character sheet that I can print from my computer.
I don't like hand-written character sheets. Especially from players.
They're hard to read and are often in sixteen different formats
despite the fact that one could just photocopy the master or copy
from it.
Usually the lines on the pre-printed sheet are too small for easy
legibility. Or they waste space with sections that just aren't used
for a particular character or campaign. They have to be re-copied
periodically due to wear and tear. And updates require erasing and
re-writing, which becomes very problematic depending on your pencil
and eraser.
Besides, laser-printed character sheets look so much better.
Maybe I'm just being picky. :)
--
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
To: champ-l@sysabend.org, SteveL1979@aol.com
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---SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
>
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic:
character
> sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character
sheets for the
> 5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
> 1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
>
> 2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made
to the
> character sheet?
>
> 3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard
HERO System
> character sheet?
>
Kill the space for a character sketch (I'd prefer to see a separate
"character background" sheet that had space for a sketch) to make more
room for powers/skills/perks/talents (perhaps with a variant sheet
that spreads the powers section across two column-widths).
Kill the "stat roll section" and add another column to the
charcteristic block for stat rolls (this allow for a space efficiant
way of showing stat-rolls for all stats).
If you're going to leave space to write in custom combat maneuvers
(like martial maneuvers) make sure you have enough lines for a typical
martial package.
More space for combat skill levels in the OCV/DCV block.
Hmm.... Without a sheet in front of me that's all I can think of.
ttfn
==
==============================================
John Desmarais
==============================================
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
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---Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> HERO lacks a point based Karma/Fate point system... the closest a
> player can get to it is Luck. Even then, it dosen't let a player pull
> off what ammounts to being a 'power stunt' [borrowing from the Marvel
> SuperHeroes RPG there...].
> I've brought up buying 'on the spot' powers before on the list,
> and many people said they would let a player do this provided the
> characters had enough points to pay for the power on the spot.
> ...but lots of times in comics, a hero will use a 'power stunt'
> once, and then it will never been seen again...
> So, my question for all you loveable guys who run Comic Book Genre
> HERO games...
> Would you let a character buy a one shot power of exceptional
> potency for purposes of plot?
>
Use a system somewhat like the "brownie points" in Super Agents and
Danger International. A separate set of points awarded similarly to
experience points (but usualy in larger amounts) but with different
functionality - in your case, buying one-shot powers.
p.s.
Super Agents and Danger Int use the to buy equipment and to denote
standing with your organization (and other organization type stuff).
==
==============================================
John Desmarais
==============================================
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:45:40 +0200
From: Rog <uraeus@bunt.com>
To: Jim Dickinson <jdickins@oregonsbest.com>
CC: "'champ-l@sysabend.org'" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
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Jim Dickinson wrote:
>
> At 06:49 AM 6/23/98 -0700, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >John D writes:
> >>Well, I give you a good example of what the world might look like -
> >>just take a look at the Batman Animated Series. 1990's
> >>technology mixed with a 30s/40s "look".
> >
> >That's kind of the look I was going for, yes.
>
> Also, go rent "To Cast A Deadly Spell" (I am pretty sure that this is what
> it is called.) It was an HBO movie that went video. The main character
> was a gumshoe named H.P. Lovecraft who lives in a world where magic found
> it's way back to commonality. And because there was magic to deal with,
> technology didn't advance as quickly, leaving things just about as they
> were in the 40s.
>
> There was a sequel, too but I can't remember the title.
It was "Witch Hunt" with Dennis Hopper as HPL (not the same guy as in
"To Cast A Deadly Spell") and Penelope Ann Miller as the female lead...
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:39:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >Summon: Give it an advantage that makes the summon creature
> >automatically loyal to the caster.
>
> But if the summoned creature's point cost is over the caster's cost, does it
> cost 1:1 for the overage?
There is no top end rules for Summon, so I can't answer that. But, there
are too many examples of fictional summons where the creature *will* do
what you want, no questions asked to ignore this idea.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:45:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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On 23 Jun 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> > 1 8-
> > 2 11-
> > 3 9 + CHAR/5
>
> Or eliminate Characteristic based rolls for skills entirely.
That sounds a bit too extreme. Although there is somethingto be said for
the GURPS method of skill buying. (Where one pays 'x' for a CHAR roll and
then can pay less of more for that roll + or - x number of points.)
> > Entangle: Can this/should this be used to create 'everyday'
> > objects? If not, does one use Transform? Is it a good idea to request a
> > 'Create Object' power?
>
> My opinion would be to separate DEF from Body of Entangles. That is, 20
> points points buys a 2DEF/2D6 Entangle, or 3 DEF/1D6, or 1 DEF/3D6, or 0
> DEF/4D6, or even 4 DEF/0D6. Or something like that.
Hmm... here is an argument for not using Transform to create objects. The
BB says it can't be used to create 'useful' objects.
> > Transform: Can this power increase a character's points total?
>
> This is already answered in the BBB: no.
Really? Mine doesn't say that. It does say that you can't create useful
objects, but that's all. I've seen Transform used to create vampires,
werewolves, superboxers and ubermen. If this is wrong then someone needs
to clarifiy what you can and cannot do with Transform.
> > CHARACTER DESIGN:
>
> > Benchmarks of some sort are a good idea.
>
> Benchmarking what? Hero already has a superior version of Fuzion's "Rule
> of X". Anything else will vary so widely that a simple benchmark will be
> useless. A bit of common sesnse on the part of the GM will go much
> further.
Benchamrks as to what should be considered a 'normal' human and so on. At
least for Heroic level characters. This is a very hard to define idea and
not every GM is going to have the desired level of 'common sense'.
Hmm.. actually, I think Hero 5th should use the Fuzion method of determing
lifting ability too.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:36:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Limitations on UAO/UBO & Advantages
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
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How do you but a power that you have, but can effect another
person UAO/UBO if a certain set of criteria is met?
Example: Skyler Shade is a vampire. As a vampire, he is
resistant to injury, and can heal wounds at an astounding rate. However,
if is blood is injested by another, they too can heal like him for a
limited period of time.
The Limitation on the UBO would be 'Only if Skyler's blood is
injested' or more appropiately 'Gestures: Must feed blood to target/Target
must drink blood'?
Which brings up another point...
Can you voulantarily shut off Advantages?
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:46:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
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From: istorema@juno.com (Bruce A Crow)
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Like others, I would mention Lyonesse and Ys. I only know of Ys from
mention in Mists of Avalon (and a brief mention at that).
And if you are looking for Irish sources, (ala Tir Na Nog) you'll find
much more. The tale of St. Brendan the Navigator is filled with little
else but referrences to the various islands he visited and their mystical
qualities. There is a really interesting book I checked out of the
library, about two years ago, that followed his journey (St. Brendan was
a real person, though the reality of his journey is debated) and
identified the real names of the islands he lists and what it was about
them that caused such fanciful descriptions.
>From what I understand, Irish folklore has many such tales, but St.
Brendan's is the best of the genre.
And don't forget the Isle of Mann, which was quite a mystical place to
the Irish Celts, even though it is quite real.
A world is a terrible thing to waste.
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Michael Surbrook
<susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>Okay, here's an odd question.
>
>Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
>England other than the Isle of Avalon?
>
>Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
>Avalon given as Avallach).
>
>***************************************************************************
>* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano
>Orbatos,Orion *
>* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net
> *
>* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:
> *
>* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html
> *
>* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT
> *
>* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of
>St.Mark *
>***************************************************************************
>
>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:11:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
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Greetings,
---Jason Sullivan wrote:
[snip]
> The Endurers are a group of extra-planatary space faring men and
> women branded 'mutants' who have managed to leave their home world of
> Terra-Sol Prime to escape euthanization.
[snip]
>Try as they may with their powers, the chambers are too strong, withstanding
>even Wilson's hyper-blue force-bolt eye beams.
>
> If you were running this scenario, and Wilson had enough points to
> buy a 1 Charge Independent EB that would let him blast through the
> neo-glass chambers, would you let him buy it?
[snip]
It wouldn't be necessary... that's what PUSHING is for.
Now, if he wanted to suddenly develop a totally new power, that would be
a different story. If it was absolutely necessary in order to survive the
situation, I might be persuaded to arrange a "radiation accident" or "sudden
burst of super-adrenalin".
OTOH, I can't recall ever running a game where I've arranged a totally
inescapable deathtrap. As a result, those "radiation accidents" have never
been required.
Dale A. Ward
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
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From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:37:27 EDT
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>Airships are still used, because without a WW2, there was no reason to
not
>sell helium to the Germans, so there was no Hindenburg disaster.
Airplanes would still have propellors, though there might be some
prototype turboprops being flown. Helicopter development might not be as
advanced as in our world. World War II era choppers couldn't carry a big
enough payload to be used in combat, but without that war and with the
airship tech we're postulating, would there have been any incentive to
develop helicopters that _could_ carry a good-sized load?
>Relatively inefficient automobiles and high fuel costs mean the suburbs
>never happened. Cities are huge sprawling masses of towering
skyscrapers,
>with bridges and roadways and subway tunnels criss-crossing in an
>incredible maze.
With the cities staying relatively compact, it would still be
cost-effective to use streetcars as public transit -- the streetcar lines
wouldn't have to extend their lines very often to reach their customers.
Leah
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X-Envelope-Recipient: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
To: <SteveL1979@aol.com>
Cc: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Character Sheet
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:38:36 -0500
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> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for
the
>5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
>2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the
>character sheet?
<snip rest>
I'd love to see two different sheets for each character. One would be the
design sheet, and would have all the point totals, CHAR maxima and cost per
point. In fact, it probably would need to be multiple pages, too allow for
some decent representation of how special powers are built.
The second sheet would be just a one page play sheet. It would have only
the information useful for actually playing the game. For example, instead
of all the design info on CHAR, it would either just list the value--or
possibly have a second column for "current values." (Those long-running
drains, or BODY damage between sessions.)
As most of you probably are already thinking by now, the best way to do
this would be with a computer program. Perhaps Creation Workshop could
provide this kind of thing.
Why? Because we can put more information on the play sheet, but make it
less cluttered during play. Second, if you're breaking in a new player,
you don't have to intimidate them with all the numbers.
Steven Mitchell
mdmitche@advicom.net
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From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:02:05 -0500
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Bob Greenwade writes:
> Having a two-sided version seems to be the most popular suggestion.
> Drawing together what I gather of others' ideas, and mixing in a few of
>my own, maybe we could have something basic on Side One, which most
>characters could use; and then four sections (two columns, each divided in
>two horizontally) of Power/Skills listings on the back, which could be
used
>as overflow, detailed descriptions, etc. So for a gadgeteer character, he
>could write in (for instance), "[15] Engram Surfer, 10d6 Mind Scan, +5
(see
>back)," and the section on the back could describe the Engram Surfer and
>how it turned a 10d6 Mind Scan with +5 EOCV into something costing 15 real
>points. And a magician, a VPP user, or just about any other character
with
>several intricate powers, could do the same thing. (And Side Two could be
>copied twice onto one sheet for those *really* complex character
>constructions.)
I wasn't going to say this, since I use my own sheet, but ...
If Hero really wants an innovative sheet, my suggestion would be to get a
sample of as many different sheets as you can. Then take each type of
thing and make it fit some standard size (or handful of sizes). For
example, you might provide versions of disadvantages 1 column wide and 2,
3, and 4 inches high. Some samples might even be 2 or 3 columns wide.
Provide as many as possible in a few likely combinations. Then encourage
folks to cut and paste (scissors and tape--not a program :-) If they don't
want the character sketch, replace it with something else. Want to put the
combat abilities together, by all means, go ahead. This way, it's somewhat
standard, since all the "units" are "official" Hero, but everyone can
customize to their heart's content.
Steven Mitchell
mdmitche@advicom.net
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
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From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:42:14 EDT
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<description of situation snipped>
> If you were running this scenario, and Wilson had enough points
to
>buy a 1 Charge Independent EB that would let him blast through the
>neo-glass chambers, would you let him buy it? Of course, the CP spent
>would be lost for all eternity! (*gasp* the strain!), but Wilson,
loving
>his Jessie so much, wouldn't think twice about it.
Assuming that Pushing his EB wouldn't break the neo-glass (and in that
situation, I'd probably let him push more than 10 points), sure.
I might point it out as one charge that can never recover (-4 lim. --
from the self-destruct charges in Eye For An Eye) rather than
independent, but that's just personal preference.
Leah
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:47:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
To: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
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On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Dale Ward wrote:
> Now, if he wanted to suddenly develop a totally new power, that would be
> a different story. If it was absolutely necessary in order to survive the
> situation, I might be persuaded to arrange a "radiation accident" or "sudden
> burst of super-adrenalin".
What to you suggest as a mechanic for a one-time
"radiantion-accident" or "sudden burst of super-adrenalin"?
Also, pushing is viable, but has a margin for error which would
have to be taken into account.
Pushing also can't add sudden Advantages on to powers (AP and
Penetrating for example <or can it?!?>) which would help old W.W. save his
beloved before she gets ginzu-o-maticked. It happens often enough in
comics (ohmygosh, Cyclops suddenly developed Area of Effect Cone!!!!).
Of course, if the player wanted a 'stress only' power, I might
convince him to purchase "Only when under extreme stress" (-1/4), One
Recoverable Charge (recovery would be sufficent rest on the part of the
character).
-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:12:44 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Limitations on UAO/UBO & Advantages
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> How do you but a power that you have, but can effect another
> person UAO/UBO if a certain set of criteria is met?
Simple, take the power Partially Limited, with the appropriate Limitation
applying only to the Advantage. This is suggested on p. 101 of HSR.
> Example: Skyler Shade is a vampire. As a vampire, he is
> resistant to injury, and can heal wounds at an astounding rate. However,
> if is blood is injested by another, they too can heal like him for a
> limited period of time.
> The Limitation on the UBO would be 'Only if Skyler's blood is
> injested' or more appropiately 'Gestures: Must feed blood to target/Target
> must drink blood'?
13 Regeneration UBO(+1/2) Partial Lim/UBO Only: Gestures(-1/2)
Gestures reflect feeding blood continuously.
The UBO(+1/2) means that Skyler can still Regenerate while healing
someone else.
>
> Which brings up another point...
> Can you voulantarily shut off Advantages?
No. HSR p. 90:
A Power with an Advantage is considered to be a distinct
Power, and the Advantage must always be used whenever the
character uses the Power.
Now, in the case of UBO, it is not necessary to actually grant the power
to anyone, but the Advantage always affects Active Point costs, and
therefore END, Skill Rolls, etc. If the Advantage has a Limitation that
it does not share with the base power, the Advantage does nothing other
than take up room, but it is still there in principle.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:23:56 -0700
To: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts), champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
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At 10:37 PM 6/23/98 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>>Relatively inefficient automobiles and high fuel costs mean the suburbs
>>never happened. Cities are huge sprawling masses of towering
>skyscrapers,
>>with bridges and roadways and subway tunnels criss-crossing in an
>>incredible maze.
>
>With the cities staying relatively compact, it would still be
>cost-effective to use streetcars as public transit -- the streetcar lines
>wouldn't have to extend their lines very often to reach their customers.
>
Possibly. I was starting with a visual image (a city ala Gotham from the
first 'Batman' movie) and 'reverse engineering' to find out how such a city
would evolve, where the divergent points were. Streetcars are logical, but
they're lousy for chases or fight scenes. (Based on the ones in SF, at
least)
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:22:04 -0400
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
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> If you were running this scenario, and Wilson had enough points to
>buy a 1 Charge Independent EB that would let him blast through the
>neo-glass chambers, would you let him buy it? Of course, the CP spent
>would be lost for all eternity! (*gasp* the strain!), but Wilson, loving
>his Jessie so much, wouldn't think twice about it.
> Tell me what you think.
[Aside: Yes, we do allow on-the-spot power buys. Normally it's
used for the purchase of skills that the character should
probably have already. And of course, only by GM permission.]
It's an interesting thought. And the campaign you describe is
probably one of the few ways in which it would work.
As a GM, I would allow it. But as a player, I doubt that I would
ever do such a thing. Points are just too valuable to waste on a
one-shot thing. Perhaps if there were some way to reward the
player for doing this ...
I have to wonder though: Let's say that the players didn't find
this system to be an advantage. Would the scenario above be
forcing them into doing something that they wouldn't ordinarily
want to do?
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:49:40 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 11:23 PM 6/23/1998 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>At 10:37 PM 6/23/98 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>
>>>Relatively inefficient automobiles and high fuel costs mean the suburbs
>>>never happened. Cities are huge sprawling masses of towering
>>skyscrapers,
>>>with bridges and roadways and subway tunnels criss-crossing in an
>>>incredible maze.
>>
>>With the cities staying relatively compact, it would still be
>>cost-effective to use streetcars as public transit -- the streetcar lines
>>wouldn't have to extend their lines very often to reach their customers.
>>
>Possibly. I was starting with a visual image (a city ala Gotham from the
>first 'Batman' movie) and 'reverse engineering' to find out how such a city
>would evolve, where the divergent points were. Streetcars are logical, but
>they're lousy for chases or fight scenes. (Based on the ones in SF, at
>least)
San Francisco streetcars may be lousy as participants in chases, but
they're great as obstacles, as can happen when the chase crosses their
lines. They can also be plenty of fun as the scene for fistfights,
especially if the Bad Guy is trying to throw the Good Guy in front of an
oncoming automobile (even at the relatively low speeds of streetcars and
downtown auto traffic, that can *hurt*).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:18:39 -0400
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
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At 07:39 PM 6/23/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
>> >Summon: Give it an advantage that makes the summon creature
>> >automatically loyal to the caster.
>>
>> But if the summoned creature's point cost is over the caster's cost,
does it
>> cost 1:1 for the overage?
>
>There is no top end rules for Summon, so I can't answer that. But, there
>are too many examples of fictional summons where the creature *will* do
>what you want, no questions asked to ignore this idea.
>
I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if I'm being redundant,
but...
For Summon, I'd very much like to see actual *summoning* clearly
established as a special effect. Currently, a strict rules interpretation
insists that a summoned being must be brought from some other place. I
regularly ignore this, using summon to describe the *creation* of animate
beings, and I think most other people do to. Game balance-wise, summoning a
creature from another dimension and creating it from thin air are pretty
much the same thing, and I'd like to see the rules explicitly allow both
options.
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:09:40 -0500
From: Commando <commando@mail.com>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
To: SteveL1979@aol.com
Cc: hero-l@sysabend.org
Reply-to: Commando <jstefanski@iname.com>
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Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I personally wouldn't spend a lot of calories on the character sheet. Most
of the players I know have designed their own spreadsheet based character
sheet. The one thing I enjoyed was the outline for drawing my own
character. The template was nice but since I'm no artist, I never took it
very far. What would be nice is a computer program similar to the
children's storybook applications that let the user put together a person,
castle and etc. by using small pictures. The user moves the costume design,
color or extras onto a predetermined outline and whoa-la, instant character
picture. Sounds expensive, but If you marketed it along with the new
edition I'm sure it will sell.---------------------------------At least I
will.
JS
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤º°°º¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø
"There can be only one"
Send all messages to commando@mail.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:24:04 +0000
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Hmm... here is an argument for not using Transform to create objects. The
> BB says it can't be used to create 'useful' objects.
>
> > > Transform: Can this power increase a character's points total?
> >
> > This is already answered in the BBB: no.
>
> Really? Mine doesn't say that. It does say that you can't create useful
> objects, but that's all. I've seen Transform used to create vampires,
> werewolves, superboxers and ubermen. If this is wrong then someone needs
> to clarifiy what you can and cannot do with Transform.
It used to be that you could not increase the point total. They left that
sentence out in the BBB. My guess is that since Transform's need to be
heavily monitered by the GM, you might as well allow it to be more
flexible.
-Mark Lemming
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:27:46 +0000
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
To: Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Melinda and Steven Mitchell wrote:
>
> If Hero really wants an innovative sheet, my suggestion would be to get a
> sample of as many different sheets as you can. Then take each type of
> thing and make it fit some standard size (or handful of sizes). For
> example, you might provide versions of disadvantages 1 column wide and 2,
> 3, and 4 inches high. Some samples might even be 2 or 3 columns wide.
>
> Provide as many as possible in a few likely combinations. Then encourage
> folks to cut and paste (scissors and tape--not a program :-) If they don't
> want the character sketch, replace it with something else. Want to put the
> combat abilities together, by all means, go ahead. This way, it's somewhat
> standard, since all the "units" are "official" Hero, but everyone can
> customize to their heart's content.
Colorform for Champions? I like this idea.
-Mark
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:10:51 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 98-06-23 14:24:14 EDT, jdickins@oregonsbest.com writes:
<< Also, go rent "To Cast A Deadly Spell" (I am pretty sure that this is what
it is called.) It was an HBO movie that went video. The main character
was a gumshoe named H.P. Lovecraft who lives in a world where magic found
it's way back to commonality. And because there was magic to deal with,
technology didn't advance as quickly, leaving things just about as they
were in the 40s.
There was a sequel, too but I can't remember the title.
>>the sequel was called Witch Hunt, and starred Dennis Hopper a
H.P.Lovecraft instead of Fred Ward......
--------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:38:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
Triangle that is...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:49:40 -0700
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 06:38 PM 6/24/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
>vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
>Triangle that is...
The main one that I can think of is the Marie Celeste, and that's
connected to the Bermuda Triangle.
Of course there's always Glenn Miller, whose transport is believed to
have gone down over the English Channel en route from London to Paris (on
16 Dec 1944), though neither bodies nor wreckage have ever been found.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Gone Missing...
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:55:30 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any
>good mass vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns?
Have you heard of Roanoke, the missing colony?
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
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From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:14:32 -0500
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How about the original settlers of Roanoke (supposedly inter-married with a
local Indian tribe)?
----------
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
> To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Subject: Gone Missing...
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 5:38 PM
>
> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
> Triangle that is...
>
>
***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
*
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net
*
> * Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:
*
> * http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html
*
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT
*
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark
*
>
***************************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:16:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: RE: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any
> >good mass vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns?
>
> Have you heard of Roanoke, the missing colony?
Yup. Along with the city of Ys, the PCs will come across the town of
Croatoan. In some Steven King books (and other places), I've seen stories
of whole towns up and vanishing. I'm trying to discover any ones that are
supposed to be true to see if I can work them into the plot.
For example, I remember reading (some where) of a British army regiment
that marched into a thick cloud/fog mass and never came out...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:25:52 -0700
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any
> >good mass vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns?
>
Oh, yeah. There's also the Mary Celeste. She's a ship from the 1800's, I
believe, that never made it to her destination. She was found way off course
months later, with no sign of a disturbance, but no people. There were still
plates of food on the tables, etc. -- it looked like everyone just up and
left for no reason.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:35:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> > >In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any
> > >good mass vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns?
> >
> Oh, yeah. There's also the Mary Celeste. She's a ship from the 1800's, I
> believe, that never made it to her destination. She was found way off course
> months later, with no sign of a disturbance, but no people. There were still
> plates of food on the tables, etc. -- it looked like everyone just up and
> left for no reason.
Got that one too. I'll state that your version of the story is in error
as to the facts, but that's not the point of my question.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: calicajun@prtcl.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:09:34 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: supplement request
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I am looking for a old champions supplement that had danger rooms in it.
Does anyone remember this book, it's title & where I could pick up a copy?
P.s. I also think it would be something worth re-releasing with 4th or 5th
edition changes.
____________________________
GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
---------------------------------------------
Eric Chauvin
calicajun@prtcl.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:38:59 -0500
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Justice Inc 1999
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>That brought up an interesting idea -- what if today was still the pulp
>action era? What changes would need to have happened in the past?
>
>I don't think that a rejection of factory automation and mass production
>would be enough -- that was already happening by that time. What if the US
>hadn't gotten into WW2?
>
>What might cause 1999 to look like the '30s and '40s with a few advances,
>and what might those advances be (mass transit blimps)?
This retro-modern look was used to some extent in the recent FLASH
television series, and was the visual art focus of Tim Truman's comic book
miniseries THE SPIDER. That series was written and drawn as if *set* in
the 1990's but *created* in the 1930's. In other words, given the
information available to a pulp writer of 60 years ago, what might he have
imagined the future would look like?
In that case, doubling-time of technical knowledge isn't an issue; time is
only passing in the forward-projected imagination of the writer. A few
technical advances might be accurately predicted, but the shape or design
of those machines would be colored by the fashions of the writer's time,
and thus inaccurate on that level at least. For example, interplanetary or
interstellar spaceships would be given the "rocketship" design:
bullet-shaped with fins and a fiery propellant.
Also, the writer is not likely to assume a short lifespan for new (to him)
appliances or equipment; he will assume these are ultramodern devices, not
fads. They may be improved on in the future, but he will not expect them
to be cast aside. The pulp writer would assume modern conveyances like the
airship and the autogiro to still be in use in the future, etc.
Damon
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/ |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Worthy Causes -- Computer -- Atlanta -- All Human Knowledge |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
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From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@early.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another odd-ball Question
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 03:50:58 -0400
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> From: Dr. Nuncheon
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Surbrook writes:
>>>> So... how much Body does the Earth have?
>>>
> <snip>
>>
>> My general answer is 'more than you can do'. If I wanted to get specific,
>> I'd probably treat each hex individually with a DEF and BODY based on the
>> primary contents of the hex, because that seems to give more sensible
>> results.
>
> Particularly since a wall of Earth thickness, made of metal, would have 55
> BODY, shooting it with 55 BODY would create a 1 meter hole, and the hole
> would grow to swallow the Earth if you did 68 BODY.
>
> Personally, I'd suggest they throw out the "+1d6 equals double force" idea
> entirely. The main problem by far would be the STR chart, but simply declare
> that damage caused by a punch is partly from the speed of the blow and partly
> from the raw force (true), and that STR only gives raw force. Thus, doubling
> the lifting ability does not necessarily double the damaging ability.
>
> Filksinger
At times, I've tinkered with the notion of changing the way damage dice and
BODY are related to energy and mass. Say that every doubling of energy entails
a +2d6 increase, and every doubling of mass a +2 BODY increase, resulting in a
more graduated scale. Or how about a +4d6 and +4 BODY increase per doubling,
for an even more gradual progression? I soon realized that, to maintain
complete consistency, I would have to extensively rewrite the rules, both the
official and my own house rules and my lists of vehicles and weapons and object
rD & BODY. The rules also started to look rather like GURPS in certain ways,
and less like Hero.
The more gradual the scale, the stronger the distinction between the merely
heroic and the superheroic, and the bigger the numbers at the high end of the
scale. A doubling of mass giving a +2 BODY boost makes those 18 and 20 BODY
heroes look not so troublesome as before, if a basic 20 BODY vehicle has a mass
of just 3.2 tons, 32x that of a common man. A modern tank then has about a 28
BODY, and planet Earth about a 170 BODY. Have to revise the Density Increase,
Growth, and Shrinking rules, though, to accommodate the new mass scale.
Of course, you have to roll a lot more dice with those high-energy attacks.
The German 88-mm Pak 43/41 gun of WW II could hurl its antitank rounds with
about five megajoules of kinetic energy (10 kg projectile at 1 km/sec). A
revised energy scale might place that at about a 31 DC attack. Damned lethal
to a normal human, as would be expected, but the stats for combat vehicles and
weapon systems must be redone--weapon damage and armor rD (the best modern tank
armor could survive an old 88-mm round), as well as BODY.
If the damage values in the Strength table are left alone, those 70 STR bricks
start looking wimpy when it comes to punching through tank armor. To maintain
consistency, damage energy should keep pace with the lift energy of a brick's
impressive muscles. Crank up damage dice for HtH attacks (note that I don't
abide by the official Haymaker rule--too quirky for me), and STR **really**
looks underpriced. Have to increase the cost of STR, and redo the costs of
Density Increase and Growth again.
And just where is the beginning baseline of the revised energy scale? From the
beginning of the STR/energy scale, or do you institute the change higher up?
Say that a 10 STR character's 2d6 punch entails about 50 joules of energy. A
100 joule attack is 4d6 damage, 200 joules is 6d6 damage, and so on, up through
the high energies of AT guns and missiles and such. So now a 20 STR character
does 6d6 with an ordinary punch.
It's kind of tempting, in that every point of STR becomes meaningful when it
comes to damage. Consider:
Strength Damage
10 2d6
11 2d6+1
12 2 1/2d6
13 3d6
14 3 1/2d6
15 4d6
But with higher damage at even the heroic level, a character's PD and ED and
the protective value of body armor must be permitted to rise so that
heroic-level characters can sustain the higher damage. And what about the
whole business of weapon damage and STR minimums? Does a +3 STR above the
minimum grant a +1 DC, with a +5 STR above min a +2 DC? Does two-handed use
grant a +1 DC or a +2 DC bonus? Sheesh.
I've heard how some people change the STR scale so that, beginning at say a 50
STR, every additional 10 STR doubles lift, to moderate the great weights bricks
can lift. So adopt this idea--everything stays the same at the heroic level,
but as you move into really high strengths and energies, then the scale becomes
more gradual. Leave HtH damage alone, but adjust downward the lift masses for
high STR to match. A brick still has to really buy up his STR if he's not to
feel inadequate compared to a main battle tank, rather like the 200+ ST
strongmen of GURPS Supers. You don't have to sweat all the changes if you run
only a gritty, heroic-level campaign, but for many campaigns, you need to
accommodate the changes where the energy/mass scale shifts from one progression
to another. More rule kludges.
Now try explaining all these changes to someone used to the official rules.
>From his point of view, all this might seem a variant so different from the
game he loves it's no longer Hero, it's an odd Hero/GURPS hybrid. Not going to
catch on.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:45:20 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: supplement request
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
calicajun@prtcl.com wrote:
>
> I am looking for a old champions supplement that had danger rooms in it.
> Does anyone remember this book, it's title & where I could pick up a copy?
> P.s. I also think it would be something worth re-releasing with 4th or 5th
> edition changes.
The first supplement I recall having danger rooms was "Champions II"
waaaaaaaaaaay back in '84(?) or so. Long before even 3rd edition, it
was. I don't know if there are any others, but your best bet is to look
at comic and gaming shops that have old used stuff. If you find it, you
could probably get it for a couple o' bucks.
____________________________
> GET-EM!!! THAT'S THE PLAN?!?
(Ghostbusters!)
--
-Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:56:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
> Triangle that is...
Well, how about an entire continent? There's always Atlantis, Lemuria,
Mu...'sunk beneath the waves'could have been a misunderstanding (or a
poetic way of saying 'they went poof').
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:06:21 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands & Disappearances
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> > Anyone know what other mythical lands were supposed to exist around
>> > England other than the Isle of Avalon?
>> >
>> > Lesser know names would be a plus (for example, I've seen the Isle of
>> > Avalon given as Avallach).
I'm not certain what you mean by 'around England' in terms of distance, but
no doubt some of these will be farther afield than you had in mind:
The Isle of Demons. Stories of the island date back to the earliest trips
to the cod fishing grounds off Newfoundland. The most complete account of
it is credited to Andre Thevet, a Franciscan friar and chaplain to
Catherine de Medici, from a voyage in 1555. Written accounts date back at
least to 1540, and it may have appeared on maps as early as 1436.
Frisland, south of Iceland. Southern coast at about 60 to 61 degrees N
latitude. A mid-16th Century map places seven towns on Frisland.
Similarity of some geographic features suggests Frisland may have just been
Iceland (though Iceland was known at the time) and that navigators were
confused by magnetic variation in the vicinity of Greenland.
Buss Island, discovered 1578. Southeast of Frisland, at about 59 degrees
N, 30 degrees W...or at 23 degrees W (120 nautical miles away) depending on
who you believe.
Antilla, or Ante Ilha. Seven cities were supposedly founded in the 8th
Century on the island of Antilla, 200 leagues (686 nautical miles) due west
from the Canary and Azores islands.
Hy-Brazil. Known to be close to the western Irish coast, but only visible
once every seven years when the dense fog normally cloaking it lifts.
Stories date back at least to the 6th Century. In addition to different
spellings, pronounciation in different languanges and so forth, Hy-Brazil
has many different names: Tir fo-Thuin, Magh Mell, Hy na-Beatha, Tir
na-m-Buadha, etc.
Disappearances:
The schooner Patriot, lost somewhere between South Carolina and New York in
1812, with the daughter of Aaron Burr aboard.
The steamer Waratah, disappeared 1909 off South Africa.
The merchant ship Asiatic Prince, vanished 1928 en route from Los Angeles
to Yokohama.
The five-masted freighter Kobenhavn, vanished December 1928 or January 1929
en route from Buenos Aires to Australia.
The above references are taken from --
PHANTOM ISLANDS OF THE ATLANTIC by Donald S. Johnson
FAMOUS MYSTERIES OF THE SEA by Patricia Lauber
I have other books on disappearances, but they focus mainly on individuals,
rather than large groups.
Damon
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:43:42 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
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The Roanoke colony of colonial Virginia.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 6/25/98, at 8:03 AM, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
>> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
>> Triangle that is...
>
>Well, how about an entire continent? There's always Atlantis, Lemuria,
>Mu...'sunk beneath the waves'could have been a misunderstanding (or a
>poetic way of saying 'they went poof').
>
>J
>
>Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
>Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
Uncommon Solutions...when you need a better way!
http://www.uncommonsolutions.com
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:46:31 -0700
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
Fuzion Mailing List <fuzion@dour.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: [off topic] ICQ
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Pardon the brief off-topic note; with traffic relatively low on both
lists, this will hopefully not be a major problem.
I've just gotten hooked up with ICQ (at least for now), so if anyone
with it sees me and wants to contact me for something, my number is 14602667.
Thank you all for your patience. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:03:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands & Disappearances
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:
> I'm not certain what you mean by 'around England' in terms of distance, but
> no doubt some of these will be farther afield than you had in mind:
Yes, but they are good enough.
> The Isle of Demons. Stories of the island date back to the earliest trips
> to the cod fishing grounds off Newfoundland. The most complete account of
> it is credited to Andre Thevet, a Franciscan friar and chaplain to
> Catherine de Medici, from a voyage in 1555. Written accounts date back at
> least to 1540, and it may have appeared on maps as early as 1436.
Uh... and is it inhabited by Demons?
> Antilla, or Ante Ilha. Seven cities were supposedly founded in the 8th
> Century on the island of Antilla, 200 leagues (686 nautical miles) due west
> from the Canary and Azores islands.
Any relation to the Greater and Lesser Antillies?
> The steamer Waratah, disappeared 1909 off South Africa.
I remember that name from a refrence I read somewhere else... now if I
could only remember what...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:58:33 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands & Disappearances
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>> The Isle of Demons. Stories of the island date back to the earliest trips
>> to the cod fishing grounds off Newfoundland. The most complete account of
>> it is credited to Andre Thevet, a Franciscan friar and chaplain to
>> Catherine de Medici, from a voyage in 1555. Written accounts date back at
>> least to 1540, and it may have appeared on maps as early as 1436.
>
>Uh... and is it inhabited by Demons?
It was, according to the book, "reputedly inhabited by a curious mixture of
wild animals: [polar] bear and walrus, plus mythological creatures such as
the gryphon. Evil spirits or demons, beings of a nature intermediate
between gods and men, abounded. These beasts and malignant spirits had one
activity in common: 'vying with each other to torment civilized man."
And from Thevet's account: "...when they passed this way, they heard in the
air, on the tops or about the masts, a great clamor of men's voices,
confused and inarticulate, such as you may hear from the crowd at a fair or
marketplace; whereupon they well knew that the Isle of Demons was not far
off." In fact this racket was probably caused by flocks of gannets or
auks, both species being silent while at sea but noisy when at their
breeding grounds.
>
>> Antilla, or Ante Ilha. Seven cities were supposedly founded in the 8th
>> Century on the island of Antilla, 200 leagues (686 nautical miles) due west
>> from the Canary and Azores islands.
>
>Any relation to the Greater and Lesser Antillies?
Possibly. It was suggested that the "200 league" reference was not meant
as an accurate measurement, but simply a way of saying 'a great distance';
and that Antilla was even farther west, in the Caribbean. If this is the
case, it could mean that knowledge of the New World could date back to the
1300's. Antilla proper (there were some lesser islands associated with it)
might be Cuba. The tip of Florida may have been misidentified as a second
island, cartographers being unaware it was part of a continent.
Damon
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:12:30 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
>
> Well, how about an entire continent? There's always Atlantis, Lemuria,
> Mu...'sunk beneath the waves'could have been a misunderstanding (or a
> poetic way of saying 'they went poof').
Lemuria? Hmm....reminds me of my favorite button at an old Empiricon:
Reunite Gondwanaland!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:41:29 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
To: champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Character Sheet
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
>
> OK, folx, time for a general 5th Ed. question. The topic: character
> sheets.
>
> We are considering whether to re-do the HERO System character sheets for the
> 5th Ed. rulebook. So we wanted to ask:
>
> 1. Do you like the current character sheet?
> a. If not, why not? Please be specific.
>
> 2. If not covered in 1.a, what changes would you like to see made to the
> character sheet?
>
> 3. Is there anything new you'd like to see added to the standard HERO System
> character sheet?
I'm still using the character sheets from way back which are effectively
two wide sections for powers and disads. Even with the extra width, I find that I
still run out of room for some things. The only time I use the three column sheets
is for Superagents or fantasy. Going with one or the other would be a mistake, I
think.
Leave the combat information part in but provide more space for manouvers
used by certain characters. Increase the movement section to enable people to
write kph rates, both max and cruise. While not relevant in combat, for those long
distance jaunts, it saves a lot of time to be able to say "I fly at 60 kph" instead
of "I do 20 inches with 3 speed." Increase the perception roll area to enable for
weird senses and enhancements that are not blanket. Allow a space next to the
stats area for stat rolls.
Add some more tables, (yes, I, like others, am leaning to double sided
sheets) for such things as range mods, stun multiples (hit locations) and locations
to track such things as ablative and charges.
One other thing. If possible, have the character sheets in a slip in the
back of the book. This will enable people to photocopy the sheets easily without
busting the spine of the book or getting that "blurred" section along the edge.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time between play
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Mythical Islands
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:54:50 +1000
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----------
> > Neither am I. What the heck is Ys?
>
>
> YS: Magical city shrouded in lengend, ruled by her Nine priestesses, her
> gods, and her King. Ends up sinking into the ocean.
>
erm, is that the one with 'she who must be obeyed' ?
or am i completly off track. . .
> If all my stuff hadn't just been packed away for my impending move, I
> have a couple things that would help me answer your question better:
> a book called King of Ys written by Poul & Karen Anderson
> and The Epic of Aerth book from the Dangerous Journeys - Mythus RPG.
>
> But as you probably don't have either..a quick search found this
> website concerning the legend of Ys:
> http://kemper.enst-bretagne.fr/villedys_E.html
>
> Hope this helps out!
>
> -Roger
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Feats of Derring-Do in the Comic Genre!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:01:42 +1000
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, June 24, 1998 7:09 AM
>
> HERO lacks a point based Karma/Fate point system... the closest a
> player can get to it is Luck. Even then, it dosen't let a player pull
> off what ammounts to being a 'power stunt' [borrowing from the Marvel
> SuperHeroes RPG there...].
> I've brought up buying 'on the spot' powers before on the list,
> and many people said they would let a player do this provided the
> characters had enough points to pay for the power on the spot.
> ...but lots of times in comics, a hero will use a 'power stunt'
> once, and then it will never been seen again...
> So, my question for all you loveable guys who run Comic Book Genre
> HERO games...
> Would you let a character buy a one shot power of exceptional
> potency for purposes of plot?
>
Buy a vpp, only usable in EXTREME situations, and let the active points
of the power go above the pool cost. This portrays those superlads and
lasses
who seem to be able to do really wiggy things with their powers when the
plot requires it. you could even make it cost 1 xp per use.
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:05:21 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
To: champion mailing list <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: STEVEL: 5th Edition Suggestions
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> SUGGESTIONS FOR HERO 5TH EDITION
> SKILLS:
>
> Right now skills are either 8- Familiarities or 3 points for 9 +
> CHAR/5. This can be a touch extreme, especially in a supers game. It
> would be nice if provisions were made for 2 point versions of skills,
> something like this:
>
> 1 8-
> 2 11-
> 3 9 + CHAR/5
We play that 2 point skills are 10-. This tends to put it more in the
middle for most skills as far as steps are concerned.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time between play
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:26:26 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
> Triangle that is...
>
Erm, nothing more than the usual 'vanishes off the highway' fare that i can
remember. .
as for MASS vanishing, i remember something about a dissapearing circus but
i don't think that was at urban myth level. . more of a ghost story.
What about the lost patrol? oh hang on didn't they get found? Well, there
WAS a
myth up north in australia that a bunch of . . polish people i think
got shipwrecked on the north coast and made a little village. . . and later
on an exploration leader aparently found their dwellings or somesuch. Of
course, he was dying of thirst as any good australian explorer was at that
time.
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:14:06 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Limitations on UAO/UBO & Advantages
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Robert A. West wrote:
>
> Jason Sullivan wrote:
> > Can you voulantarily shut off Advantages?
>
> No. HSR p. 90:
>
> A Power with an Advantage is considered to be a distinct
> Power, and the Advantage must always be used whenever the
> character uses the Power.
>
> Now, in the case of UBO, it is not necessary to actually grant the power
> to anyone, but the Advantage always affects Active Point costs, and
> therefore END, Skill Rolls, etc. If the Advantage has a Limitation that
> it does not share with the base power, the Advantage does nothing other
> than take up room, but it is still there in principle.
I realize that this is potentially unclear. What I meant to say was, if
the Advantage has a deleterious Limitation, such as Gestures,
Concentration, Side Effect or Increased END Cost, that is not shared by
the underlying Power, the user may elect not to use the Advantage by
choosing not to pay the cost of the Limitation, but the non-functional
Advantage still counts toward normal END costs, Skill Rolls, etc. For
example:
Magical Healing:
12 Regeneration UBO(+1/2) Part. Lim./UBO: 0 DCV Concentration(-1)
The owner of the power may Regenerate normally at full DCV, or may
Concentrate at 0 DCV throughout to grant Regeneration to another, that
person then does not need to spend END to Regenerate. If distracted
while concentrating, I would rule that *both* the self-regeneration and
other-regeneration are lost, but YMMV.
Power Armor: Offense and Defense
40 [60] Multipower Reserve OIF(-1/2) END Reserve except as specified
Rapid-Fire Pulse Laser
4u 2D6 RKA 10-shot AF(+1)
Single, well-aimed Laser Pulse
8m 2D6 RKA ISM(+1/2) AP(+1/2): Advantages use natural END.
Energy Shield
8m 16PD/24ED FF Red. END(+1/4) Hardened(+1/4)
Power Supply
20 100 END 20 REC Reserve [30] OIF(-1/2)
Firing autofire requires 3 END/shot from the reserve. Placing a
well-aimed shot (AP ISM) requires personal effort to the tune of 3 END
from the character's END, in addition to 3 END from the reserve.
Firing the full-auto lasers requires taking down the shields completely,
but the single-shot laser may be used anywhere from half to full power.
In so doing, the user may elect not to spend personal END: the AP then
becomes non-functional, but the Active Points remain and still take up
part of the multipower reserve. Thus, if our hero uses 2D6 RKA
single-shot and doesn't pay 3 personal END for accuracy, he is *still*
taking up all of the MP reserve, and cannot run the shields.
As a last example, I would allow
Flame Blast
72 12D6 EB Explosion(+1/2) PL/Expl.: OAF(-1) RSR(-1/2) SideEff(-1/2)
Our hero has developed a flame spreader that allows his single-target
Flame Blasts to act like Fireballs. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the
technology down, so he needs a skill roll with his Device Skill to do it
right, and suffers a Side Effect if he fails. I would rule that the
character may, by not using the Focus, eliminate the need for the Skill
Roll and the risk of the Side Effect, but that he still needs to pay the
full 9 END.
The above is *my* interpretation of what is in the book. As always,
YMMV, at least until 5ed comes out and clarifies everything.
>
> --
> <------------------------------------------------------->
> Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
> Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
> http://www.erols.com/robtwest
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:02:00 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> Lemuria? Hmm....reminds me of my favorite button at an old Empiricon:
>
> Reunite Gondwanaland!
And a friend of mine has a button and a .sig that support the
"Pangean Reunification Front".
Daniel "Time *is* on our side" Pawtowski
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:14:46 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
> Triangle that is...
Although a bit afield, don't dismiss towns that show up only once every
century or so, such as Brigadoon and Germelshausen -- where are they in
between? Also, consider Shangri-La and other mythical places that one
typically cannot find again, once one has left them.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 02:23:10 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
[Steve Long]
"... THE ULTIMATE SKILL (a subject of great interest to me, since I
play so many Skill-oriented characters) ... I think both of these
books are natural extensions of much of my previous Hero Games
work."
At 09:41 AM 6/26/98 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>I wish to comment that I would buy both of those *immediately* upon
>release, as I prefer low-power games where skills&weapons are of prime
>importance.
>
>I assume TUS will answer, once and for all, the great 'What can you do with
>a PS' debate...
If TUS is actually an extension of SL's previous HERO system work, then it
will be the exact opposite: a detailed exposition on how to do away with
Skills altogether by simulating them with appropriate Powers. :/
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
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From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org&>
"Fuzion Mailing List" <fuzion@dour.org>
Subject: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:11:16 -0500
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Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Check out the new Rising Force Publications Web Site, along with our
exclusive interview with Steve Long, author of Hero System 5th Edition!!!
http://members.tripod.com/~RFPOnLine/rfponlin.htm
Check out the Might Girl On-Line comic while visiting.
Michael
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:41:15 -0700
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:11 AM 6/26/98 -0500, Michael Nunn wrote:
>Check out the new Rising Force Publications Web Site, along with our
>exclusive interview with Steve Long, author of Hero System 5th Edition!!!
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~RFPOnLine/rfponlin.htm
>
Cool stuph from that interview:
"5th Edition is definitely my “dream assignment”; it’s going to be hard to
ever top it! Beyond that, there are a couple of Hero Games products that
I’m really looking forward to: THE ULTIMATE SKILL (a subject of great
interest to me, since I play so many Skill-oriented characters); and THE
ULTIMATE WEAPON
(covering everything from sticks and rocks to advanced sci-fi weapons, in
exhaustive detail). I think both of these books are natural extensions of
much of my previous Hero Games work."
I wish to comment that I would buy both of those *immediately* upon
release, as I prefer low-power games where skills&weapons are of prime
importance.
I assume TUS will answer, once and for all, the great 'What can you do with
a PS' debate...
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:41:59 -0700
To: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com&>
Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 12:14 AM 6/26/98 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>
>> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
>> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
>> Triangle that is...
>
>Although a bit afield, don't dismiss towns that show up only once every
>century or so, such as Brigadoon and Germelshausen -- where are they in
>between? Also, consider Shangri-La and other mythical places that one
>typically cannot find again, once one has left them.
>
>
For that matter, Lilliput, Brobdignang, Laputa...
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:38:54 -0500
To: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>Cool stuph from that interview:
>"5th Edition is definitely my “dream assignment”; it’s going to be hard to
>ever top it! Beyond that, there are a couple of Hero Games products that
>I’m really looking forward to: THE ULTIMATE SKILL (a subject of great
>interest to me, since I play so many Skill-oriented characters); and THE
>ULTIMATE WEAPON
>(covering everything from sticks and rocks to advanced sci-fi weapons, in
>exhaustive detail). I think both of these books are natural extensions of
>much of my previous Hero Games work."
>
>I wish to comment that I would buy both of those *immediately* upon
>release, as I prefer low-power games where skills&weapons are of prime
>importance.
>
>I assume TUS will answer, once and for all, the great 'What can you do with
>a PS' debate...
I was under the impression Bruce Harlick had already answered this
question, if not in a lot of detail. Detail, of course is what the
Ultimate series is all about, and I too will jump on both the above books
the instant they become available in any format.
Hey, Steve: has any thought been given to expanding Sciences, and making
related disciplines cheaper to buy, in the way related Languages get a cost
break?
Damon
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:44:06 -0400
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 09:41 AM 6/26/98 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>At 12:14 AM 6/26/98 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>>Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>>
>>> In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any good mass
>>> vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns? Other than the Bermuda
>>> Triangle that is...
>>
>>Although a bit afield, don't dismiss towns that show up only once every
>>century or so, such as Brigadoon and Germelshausen -- where are they in
>>between? Also, consider Shangri-La and other mythical places that one
>>typically cannot find again, once one has left them.
>>
>>
>For that matter, Lilliput, Brobdignang, Laputa...
>
Boston parking spots...
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:37:47 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
> At 03:11 AM 6/26/98 -0500, Michael Nunn wrote:
> >Check out the new Rising Force Publications Web Site, along with our
> >exclusive interview with Steve Long, author of Hero System 5th Edition!!!
> >
> >http://members.tripod.com/~RFPOnLine/rfponlin.htm
> >
> Cool stuph from that interview:
> "5th Edition is definitely my “dream assignment”; it’s going to be hard to
> ever top it! Beyond that, there are a couple of Hero Games products that
> I’m really looking forward to: THE ULTIMATE SKILL (a subject of great
> interest to me, since I play so many Skill-oriented characters); and THE
> ULTIMATE WEAPON
> (covering everything from sticks and rocks to advanced sci-fi weapons, in
> exhaustive detail). I think both of these books are natural extensions of
> much of my previous Hero Games work."
Just to be negative:
I'm glad Steve Long is excited about doing 5th edition.
However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th Edition
has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this changed ?
The ULTIMATE WEAPON sounds interesting, but I don't know about ULTIMATE SKILL.
I'm not sure what the scope would be.
Guess I'll go check the web site.
Curt
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:42:59 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
I'm going to be starting play soon in a 'strategic level' role playing
game where all of the characters are wizards, and most probably are also
the 'heads of state' of their country. The plan is for us to give a
month's worth of orders at a time to the GM and have him respond with the
results.
Has anybody done anything similar ?
Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the enemy
army with lightning bolts and wind.
Curt Hicks
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
To: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Curt Hicks writes:
> I'm glad Steve Long is excited about doing 5th edition.
> However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
> existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th
> Edition has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this
> changed ?
Nah, it was presented as 'no _major_ rules changes'. As far as I can tell the
intent is that _most_ people will not have to rewrite their character sheets to
remain compatible.
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:47:18 +0100
From: Chris Brecken <Christopher.Brecken@sunderland.ac.uk>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@omg.org>
Subject: Re: Gone Missing...
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
It was a Roman Legion, the 9th i think, but i may be wrong.....
Chris
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> > >In reation to my mythical island question, does anyone have any
> > >good mass vanishing stories? Ships, planes, whole towns?
> >
> > Have you heard of Roanoke, the missing colony?
>
> Yup. Along with the city of Ys, the PCs will come across the town of
> Croatoan. In some Steven King books (and other places), I've seen stories
> of whole towns up and vanishing. I'm trying to discover any ones that are
> supposed to be true to see if I can work them into the plot.
>
> For example, I remember reading (some where) of a British army regiment
> that marched into a thick cloud/fog mass and never came out...
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
> * http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
--
--------------------------------------------
Ride against the wind born to lose the fight
Magnum - How Far Jerusalem
--------------------------------------------
Christopher.Brecken@Sunderland.ac.uk
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:54:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
And here I was expecting something like a Hero adaption of the game "Wiz
War".
Hmmm... Sudden Death... what a great name for an RKA!
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:04:59 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From ajackson@iii.com Fri Jun 26 13:52 CDT 1998
>
> Curt Hicks writes:
> > I'm glad Steve Long is excited about doing 5th edition.
> > However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
> > existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th
> > Edition has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this
> > changed ?
>
> Nah, it was presented as 'no _major_ rules changes'. As far as I can tell the
> intent is that _most_ people will not have to rewrite their character sheets to
> remain compatible.
>
I guess the question then is what constitutes a _major_ rules change.
Presumably, everybody is hoping that their pet peeves / houserules aren't
major, but are going to be changed in 5th edition.
Curt
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:13:39 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 01:37 PM 6/26/1998 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
>I'm glad Steve Long is excited about doing 5th edition.
>However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
>existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th Edition
>has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this changed ?
Your understanding of the situation is somewhat off the actual case.
There will be a *few* changes and additions to the rules. For example,
Hand-to-Hand Attack will be expanded to 5 points per die, Aid will be
expanded to 10 points per die, Defense Maneuver will be expanded as seen in
TUMA, and Lightning Reflexes will be included. Other new Powers, Skills,
and other abilities that have been introduced since 4th Edition -- right up
to and probably including TUSV -- will very likely be put in as well. This
was the plan from the beginning, though it has also been the plan that as
few changes as possible would be made that might effect the point costs or
combat effectiveness of any character (whether published or PC).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:11:30 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: rossrannells@worldnet.att.net
To: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net>
CC: Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Melinda and Steven Mitchell wrote:
> Inspired by the latest issue of Haymaker, I request the following anti-good
> game information. I'm interested in the worst mistake you ever made as a
> GM, where worst is defined not only as bad at the time, but also
> considering all the long-term implications. Fixes are optional :-) For
> those who don't GM, but want to contribute, how about the worst GM mistake
> you ever witnessed. (Worst mistake by a player is a whole separate thread,
> which someone can start if they like.)
>
> Just to break the ice, here is mine: At the beginning of my first FH
> campaign, with all beginning players, I stated that "no one would die as
> long as they did nothing blatantly stupid." My intent was to relax them,
> so that they would attempt appropriately heroic things, without worrying
> so much about the characters surviving. I promised to cheat the rolls, if
> necessary, even alter reality, to get the promised result. What I got was
> a bunch of players cautious to the point of tedium. Everytime one tried to
> spice up the action, three others would ask if the attempt was "blatantly
> stupid."
>
> It took forever to cure this problem. In fact, I only fully cured it by
> stating that not only was the "blatantly stupid" contract null and void,
> but that I would cheat _no_ die rolls. When a character finally died, and
> everyone realized that it wasn't the end of the world, the players started
> playing the way I had originally intended.
>
Introducing the Cybermen from Doctor Who into a super heroic campaign. The
arguement over whether my write up was accurate or not ended the campaign and
broke up the group.
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:13:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
To: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Curt Hicks wrote:
> I'm going to be starting play soon in a 'strategic level' role playing
> game where all of the characters are wizards, and most probably are also
> the 'heads of state' of their country. The plan is for us to give a
> month's worth of orders at a time to the GM and have him respond with the
> results.
>
> Has anybody done anything similar ?
Sounds great. I've wanted to, but never gotten around to actually running
such a game. Aria (by Last Unicorn) is supposed to be good for dealing
with such 'strategic level' games, but the vocabulary and such is so
unweildy that it's usefulness is limited.
> Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
> example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the enemy
> army with lightning bolts and wind.
This is really hard to respond to without knowing the power level and
limitations of magic in your game. Games where magic is represented by a
Cosmic VPP are /very/ different from games where all magic is purchased as
individual spells, and powerful spells have boatloads of Extra Time,
Gestures, Incantations, and an Expendable OAF 'Virgin Sacrifice'...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:27:40 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
>
>
> > Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
> > example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the enemy
> > army with lightning bolts and wind.
>
> This is really hard to respond to without knowing the power level and
> limitations of magic in your game. Games where magic is represented by a
> Cosmic VPP are /very/ different from games where all magic is purchased as
> individual spells, and powerful spells have boatloads of Extra Time,
> Gestures, Incantations, and an Expendable OAF 'Virgin Sacrifice'...
>
No power pools or frameworks allowed.
Every wizard has to do spell research using their magical theory and
appropriate 'magic flavor' skill. The time to learn a new spell is based
on the active cost, the real cost, and your appropriate knowledge skill
for the spell type. Essentially, you're getting assigned experience points
as a research result that you use to buy the particular spell.
In any event, I was looking more for the spell effects, rather than the
mechanical constructions.
Curt
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:34:40 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
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Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Message text written by Curt Hicks
>I'm going to be starting play soon in a 'strategic level' role playing
game where all of the characters are wizards, and most probably are also
the 'heads of state' of their country. The plan is for us to give a
month's worth of orders at a time to the GM and have him respond with the
results.
Has anybody done anything similar ?
Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the enemy
army with lightning bolts and wind.<
I would recommend that you pick up the Birthright box set. Yeah, it's an
AD&D gameworld, but it does something very similar to what you describe.
It isn't limited to wizards, and the system is kinda awkward, but I think
you'll get a lot of neat ideas from it. They also have things called
"Realm Spells" for wizards who happen to regents, which sound like the
high-powered spells you are talking about. For example, you might cause
flooding in an enemy's province to damage crops and restrict movement. I
think some supplements have additional Realm Spells, but the box set would
probably give you basic guidelines and then you could create your own from
there. Realm Spells also include spells which can take out entire
regiments of an army, because "personal spells" like the regular Fireball
are too small to make a dent in an army. These are basically high-powered
versions of the AD&D spells you're familiar with, which can kill hundreds
with each casting.
Besides that source material, I think the Birthright world is pretty darn
neat and sorta reminds me of Greyhawk....just ignore all the "kingdom
maintenance" rules and use it as a regular adventuring setting.
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:36:50 -0700
To: rossrannells@worldnet.att.net,
Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net>
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Cc: Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 03:11 PM 6/26/98 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
>
>Introducing the Cybermen from Doctor Who into a super heroic campaign. The
>arguement over whether my write up was accurate or not ended the campaign and
>broke up the group.
>
This is why you ALWAYS file down the serial numbers. If you want your
players to meet the Cybermen, write up your version of them and call them
the Robot Lords Of Xirag or something. This is good in three ways:
a)No one can say "They aren't right"
b)You can draw off your knowledge of the source media to answer a lot of
questions.
c)As needed, you can alter the source at will.
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:40:47 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> At 01:37 PM 6/26/1998 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
> >I'm glad Steve Long is excited about doing 5th edition.
> >However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
> >existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th Edition
> >has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this changed ?
>
> Your understanding of the situation is somewhat off the actual case.
> There will be a *few* changes and additions to the rules. For example,
> Hand-to-Hand Attack will be expanded to 5 points per die, Aid will be
> expanded to 10 points per die, Defense Maneuver will be expanded as seen in
> TUMA, and Lightning Reflexes will be included. Other new Powers, Skills,
> and other abilities that have been introduced since 4th Edition -- right up
> to and probably including TUSV -- will very likely be put in as well. This
I guess Steve Long is the best author then, since I imagine that most of the
new powers, skills, and abilities are from his supplements. (grin) I'll
bet Rat is very happy that Steve's stuff is becoming 'canon'.
Curt
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:42:35 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: web site for interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Can somebody repost that ? The link I wrote down didn't work.
Curt
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:33:32 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
At 02:54 PM 6/26/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>And here I was expecting something like a Hero adaption of the game "Wiz
>War".
>
Or the old video game: Wizard of War.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 26 Jun 1998 17:54:11 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Nic Neidenbach writes:
> Or the old video game: Wizard of War.
Wizard of Wor.
HTH.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:05:05 EDT
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
In a message dated 6/26/98 11:43:57 AM, exucurt@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>However, to the best of my knowledge 5th edition is merely clarifying
>existing rules and providing numerous examples. This is the way 5th Edition
>has been presented. No rules changes, and no new rules. Has this changed?
>
No, your information was wrong. While the 5th Edition is mainly concerned with
clarification, we are also changing some things (like the cost of Aid, for
instance), adding in new things (most of which have appeared previously, in
Hero System Almanacs or elsewhere), and extending existing things (like
providing much more detail for Change Environment, for instance). As we stated
before, though, the basic rules won't change; stat costs remain the same,
skill rolls are handled the same way, and combat is handled the same way. The
vast majority of costs remain the same; our goal is to make it so that you
won't *have* to rewrite any character, though you may *want* to rewrite a
character when you see more options that look like they would help fulfill
your concept. We won't entirely make that goal (because, as I said, we are
changing a few costs), but we'll come very close.
-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:34:56 -0500 (CDT)
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>
> I would recommend that you pick up the Birthright box set. Yeah, it's an
> AD&D gameworld, but it does something very similar to what you describe.
> It isn't limited to wizards, and the system is kinda awkward, but I think
> you'll get a lot of neat ideas from it.
Is it 'strategic level' AD&D or what ?
> They also have things called
> "Realm Spells" for wizards who happen to regents, which sound like the
> high-powered spells you are talking about. For example, you might cause
> flooding in an enemy's province to damage crops and restrict movement.
This is good. I suppose causing flooding would be 'Change Environment'
in Hero system...
> I
> think some supplements have additional Realm Spells, but the box set would
> probably give you basic guidelines and then you could create your own from
> there. Realm Spells also include spells which can take out entire
> regiments of an army, because "personal spells" like the regular Fireball
> are too small to make a dent in an army.
Right. I'd already figured that I was going to need some HUGE area effects
for that kind of thing.
Curt
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Reply-To: <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
From: "Geoff Heald" <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Fw: New guy/question
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:27:27 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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Hi, I'm new. My brother is very into Hero, I'm less so. But I've been
playing Hero since 1986.
Here's my question:
for Fantasy Hero, using 4th.ed rules.
I want to have magical tattoos. I see this as three seperate Distinctive
Features.
1) Tattoos--Easily concealable, Noticed & Recognized --- 5pts.
2) Magic Tattoos--Only a small group or requires major effort(Detect
Magic), Always Noted --- 10pts.
3) Specific Magic Tattoos--Small group, Noticed&Recognised --- 5pts
(KS:Magic Tattoos will tell exactly what powers each tattoo can convey)
Now, I know all about taking multiples of the same disad. but my GM balks
because they're all from the same thing. He showed me how to make a
Psychological Limitation and Distinctive Features off the same thing
(always wears pink, must make Ego roll) but feels that one thing can only
make one Distinctive Feature.
Maybe some of this should be "reputation" or something.
Looking forward to advice,
Geoff
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:18:41 -0700
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: erk@halcyon.com (Eric Wylie)
Subject: Crime and punishment
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
This has probably been asked many times in the past, but I'm not sure where
else to ask. (I'd also like to avoid a trip to the law library.) I have a
hero that killed two characters in our last scenario. The first was killed
when the character went enraged and smashed an agent. The second (a known
killer) was killed because of the players lack of experience and ability to
control his character.
What I need to find out is what the various levels of murder/manslaughter
are and their average penalties. How long does the average felony trial
last and what are its stages? (I'm familiar with business law, so I
presume the process is not much different.)
One of the other characters told the brick to hit the known killer. Does
he then become an accessory? What would he be charged with?
Thanks,
Eric Wylie
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:29:30 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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> I'm going to be starting play soon in a 'strategic level' role playing
> game where all of the characters are wizards, and most probably are also
> the 'heads of state' of their country. The plan is for us to give a
> month's worth of orders at a time to the GM and have him respond with the
> results.
>
> Has anybody done anything similar ?
>
I once did a 'sorceror kings of athas' setup with hero system.
I gave a discount for followers who were normals, and let
them breed new magical creatures with a variation of the
follower rules.
> Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
> example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the
enemy
> army with lightning bolts and wind.
>
> Curt Hicks
AE , AE, and AE. Actually our battles were fought with the sorcerer king
mainly
acting through his templars- his priests by any other name. The actual
mass combat rules we used based on scale minatures and heaps of little
army men (we didn't have enough fantasy lads). The few times the kings
threw spells themselves they did so via UBO on a leading templar.
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:46:05 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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> No power pools or frameworks allowed.
> Every wizard has to do spell research using their magical theory and
> appropriate 'magic flavor' skill. The time to learn a new spell is based
> on the active cost, the real cost, and your appropriate knowledge skill
> for the spell type. Essentially, you're getting assigned experience
points
> as a research result that you use to buy the particular spell.
>
> In any event, I was looking more for the spell effects, rather than the
> mechanical constructions.
>
> Curt
>
Well, it sounds like birthright IS a good idea, but here's a few off
the top of my head:
High ground: adjust the battlefield so what WAS a level plain
becomes a cliff face with areas open on both sides. the idea is
that your men are up the top and the foe is downthe bottom.
Nightmare plague: cast on a sleeping division, it sucks the men into
a horrible joint nightmare and focus's the 'total fear' generated on only
a few targets. . .
and they go mad or die of fright. the idea is that you target the officers
and leave the enlisted men in a superstitious rabble.
dancing corpses: heh, just though of converting this one- cast on a single
man, kills and animates him into a leaping spasming zombie
which passes through the host, infecting anyone he touches with
the same fate. . .
false standard: creates an illusionary standard and/or other parts
of the command force. this is meant to cause confusion amongst the
enemy.
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au>
To: "Hero Mail List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:49:30 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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> This is why you ALWAYS file down the serial numbers. If you want your
> players to meet the Cybermen, write up your version of them and call them
> the Robot Lords Of Xirag or something. This is good in three ways:
> a)No one can say "They aren't right"
> b)You can draw off your knowledge of the source media to answer a lot of
> questions.
> c)As needed, you can alter the source at will.
hey! the robot lords of Xirag are nothig LIKE the cybermen!
And there is something to be said for an authentic threat,
like pitting a group against "DOCTOR DOOM" instead of
"professor badstuffisgonnahappen".
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:55:05 -0700
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
From: "Albert Deschesne" <Psihawk@pacbell.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>No, your information was wrong. While the 5th Edition is mainly concerned with
>clarification, we are also changing some things (like the cost of Aid, for
>instance), adding in new things (most of which have appeared previously, in
>Hero System Almanacs or elsewhere), and extending existing things (like
>providing much more detail for Change Environment, for instance). As we stated
>before, though, the basic rules won't change; stat costs remain the same,
>skill rolls are handled the same way, and combat is handled the same way. The
>vast majority of costs remain the same; our goal is to make it so that you
>won't *have* to rewrite any character, though you may *want* to rewrite a
>character when you see more options that look like they would help fulfill
>your concept. We won't entirely make that goal (because, as I said, we are
>changing a few costs), but we'll come very close.
>
>-- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
>From what I've gathered it's more akin to going from 2nd ed. to 3rd. ed.
than from 3rd. ed. to 4th ed.
I am REALLY looking forward to this! And Steve (P and L), I'm requesting a
HARDCOVER version of the same quality as the Champions Deluxe variety. Even
if it's $50.00 w/o a CD of Creation Workshop in the back. hint hint 8-)
Albert Deschesne
Gamemaster of the Metaverse
http://members.aol.com/Adeschesne
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Reply-To: <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
From: "Geoff Heald" <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Fw: Crime and punishment
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:22:06 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> What I need to find out is what the various levels of murder/manslaughter
> are and their average penalties. How long does the average felony trial
> last and what are its stages? (I'm familiar with business law, so I
> presume the process is not much different.)
Murder One --- premeditated killing
Murder Two --- intentional killing
Manslaugher --- accidental or reckless killing.
> One of the other characters told the brick to hit the known killer. Does
> he then become an accessory? What would he be charged with?
If he Knew that the brick might kill, he's reckless at best. Reckless
Endangerment or Manslaughter might apply. Or he could be cleared. Maybe
he didn't have a clue that this guy was a ticking bomb.
Was the "known killer" threatening someone? Was he trying to escape? If
he was trying to escape AND was likely to kill again, Lethal Force to
prevent his escape might be justified.
And in that first incident, was he provoked? He might get diminished
capacity (he intentionally made me really angry) or even self defense or
Justifiable Homicide if the other guy started the fight.
I guess I need to know a little more.
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:11:09 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: rossrannells@worldnet.att.net
To: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
CC: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net&>
Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
Lizard wrote:
> At 03:11 PM 6/26/98 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
>
> >
> >Introducing the Cybermen from Doctor Who into a super heroic campaign. The
> >arguement over whether my write up was accurate or not ended the campaign and
> >broke up the group.
> >
> This is why you ALWAYS file down the serial numbers. If you want your
> players to meet the Cybermen, write up your version of them and call them
> the Robot Lords Of Xirag or something. This is good in three ways:
> a)No one can say "They aren't right"
> b)You can draw off your knowledge of the source media to answer a lot of
> questions.
> c)As needed, you can alter the source at will.
Some of us have to learn this the hard way...
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From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:25:38 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: VTSFFC
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
>
> Hmmm... Sudden Death... what a great name for an RKA!
Hey! What about the spell names used in the Anime show "Bastard!" ?
Daniel "What _were_ they smoking?" Pawtowski
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:40:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Wizard War
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
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On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Daniel Pawtowski wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm... Sudden Death... what a great name for an RKA!
>
> Hey! What about the spell names used in the Anime show "Bastard!" ?
Oh... let me see...
Megadeath
Slayer
Stryper
arrggh...
I forget the rest.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:17:29 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Organization: Satan's Children
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Fw: New guy/question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
X-Status:
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X-UID: 5
Geoff Heald wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm new. My brother is very into Hero, I'm less so. But I've been
> playing Hero since 1986.
> Here's my question:
> for Fantasy Hero, using 4th.ed rules.
> I want to have magical tattoos. I see this as three seperate Distinctive
> Features.
> 1) Tattoos--Easily concealable, Noticed & Recognized --- 5pts.
> 2) Magic Tattoos--Only a small group or requires major effort(Detect
> Magic), Always Noted --- 10pts.
> 3) Specific Magic Tattoos--Small group, Noticed&Recognised --- 5pts
> (KS:Magic Tattoos will tell exactly what powers each tattoo can convey)
>
> Now, I know all about taking multiples of the same disad. but my GM balks
> because they're all from the same thing. He showed me how to make a
> Psychological Limitation and Distinctive Features off the same thing
> (always wears pink, must make Ego roll) but feels that one thing can only
> make one Distinctive Feature.
I see this configuration as two disads at most. The second two
points are the same thing. Realizing the tatoos are magic may be a DF,
but recognizing the specific tatoos would actually be reflected by
knowledge skill or background of the perceiver, but not as a disad.
OTOH, you may wish to define the tatoos a a DF, and the magical nature
of them as a reputation, recognizeable only by the select few that -uh-
recognize them. All-in-all, the whole kit'n'kaboodle will ultimately
not return a whole lot of points, but remember too that some aspect of
the tatoos is unoubtedly absorbed by the arguement of power SFX.
My suggestion would be to take the tatoos as DF (5 pts.), and the
magical nature of such as reputation. Recognition of specific tatoos
could be achieved by really good rep. rolls. Or maybe a physical
limitation; inability to conceal magical nature of tatoos (recognizeable
only to a small populous).
--
-Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: "gheald@worldnet.att.net" <gheald@worldnet.att.net&>
"Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 98 09:33:39
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fw: New guy/question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:27:27 -0400, Geoff Heald wrote:
>Hi, I'm new. My brother is very into Hero, I'm less so. But I've been
>playing Hero since 1986.
>Here's my question:
>for Fantasy Hero, using 4th.ed rules.
>I want to have magical tattoos. I see this as three seperate Distinctive
>Features.
> 1) Tattoos--Easily concealable, Noticed & Recognized --- 5pts.
> 2) Magic Tattoos--Only a small group or requires major effort(Detect
>Magic), Always Noted --- 10pts.
> 3) Specific Magic Tattoos--Small group, Noticed&Recognised --- 5pts
>(KS:Magic Tattoos will tell exactly what powers each tattoo can convey)
>
> Now, I know all about taking multiples of the same disad. but my GM balks
>because they're all from the same thing. He showed me how to make a
>Psychological Limitation and Distinctive Features off the same thing
>(always wears pink, must make Ego roll) but feels that one thing can only
>make one Distinctive Feature.
I don't think that this would be a disadvantage at all - many people
have tattoos - unless they were on the face, in which case it's DF:
Easily concealable (wear a hood). Treat the tattoos just like any other
magic item.
And wearing pink is NOT a DF and PL, just a DF. Read the description of
DF - it covers this.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:44:26 -0500
From: Kirby Jones <cyprimus@swbell.net>
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Wizard War
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Hi all:
There are a few play by mail games that to a limited extent do this, for
example RSI@reality.com has a web page that give a full discription, i am sure
thier are others, feel free to point them out.
Thanks
Kirby Jones
Curt Hicks wrote:
> I'm going to be starting play soon in a 'strategic level' role playing
> game where all of the characters are wizards, and most probably are also
> the 'heads of state' of their country. The plan is for us to give a
> month's worth of orders at a time to the GM and have him respond with the
> results.
>
> Has anybody done anything similar ?
>
> Does anybody have suggestions for highpowered spells or tactics ? For
> example changing the weather to create a storm and then blasting the enemy
> army with lightning bolts and wind.
>
> Curt Hicks
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:09:13 -0400
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@omg.org>
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
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>What I need to find out is what the various levels of murder/manslaughter
>are and their average penalties. How long does the average felony trial
>last and what are its stages? (I'm familiar with business law, so I
>presume the process is not much different.)
Well, as someone who knows SQUAT about the law, I can at least tell
you that the laws vary from state to state. In general, you have
Murder in the First Degree which is when you PLAN to kill somebody.
(Kaszinsky) Murder in the Second is when you kill someone in the heat
of the moment. (OJ?) Manslaughter is when you didn't mean to do it,
but somebody dies because of your actions. (Louise Woodward)
Some states also allow for Felony Murder, which may also apply in
your case. If, while you are committing a crime (any crime), somebody
is killed, you can be charged with his murder.
You can also consider various outcomes: Guilty, Guilty but Mentally
Ill, Innocent by Reason of Insanity, or Not Guilty. (Depending upon
the state)
The length of the trial will depend on the amount of evidence and
the defendant's plea. And media coverage. Anywhere from 2 weeks
to 6 months. (OJ was an abnormality.)
I don't know if you really want to go into the stages of a trial
during a role-playing game unless you're really hurting for material.
Let's see if I can remember this correctly:
1. Indictment (don't know much about this)
2. Trial
Voir dire (For a murder trial, you will seat 12 jurors, and 2 or
more alternates, from a pool of as many as it takes.)
Plea
Opening Statement (Prosecution)
Opening Statement (Defendant)
Prosecution's Case
Examine Witness
Defendant's cross-examination
Prosecution's rebuttal
Defendant's cross-examination
Repeat for next witness
Defendant's Case
Examine Witness
Prosecution's cross-examination
Defendant's rebuttal
Prosecution's cross-examination
Repeat for next witness
Closing Statement (Prosecution)
Closing Statement (Defendant)
Jury Deliberation
Verdict
3. Sentencing
>One of the other characters told the brick to hit the known killer. Does
>he then become an accessory? What would he be charged with?
The charge might vary according to the perceived relationship
between the two characters. If they have worked together extensively
in the past, and it could be shown that such an order would have been
expected to be obeyed, then Accessory or even Murder charges could be
brought. At the very least, it could be considered inflammatory
speech which, if not prosecuted criminally, could be tried in Civil
Court.
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Worst GM Mistakes
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6-14,21-23
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:42:21 EDT
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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>> This is why you ALWAYS file down the serial numbers. If you want your
>> players to meet the Cybermen, write up your version of them and call
them
>> the Robot Lords Of Xirag or something. This is good in three ways:
>> a)No one can say "They aren't right"
>> b)You can draw off your knowledge of the source media to answer a lot
of
>> questions.
>> c)As needed, you can alter the source at will.
>
>hey! the robot lords of Xirag are nothig LIKE the cybermen!
>And there is something to be said for an authentic threat,
>like pitting a group against "DOCTOR DOOM" instead of
>"professor badstuffisgonnahappen".
Yes, but if you announce to your players that "The Cyber Leader and 6
Cybermen have just stepped out of the spaceship", any Dr. Who fans in the
group will immediately start gold-plating HTH weapons or loading gold
ammo into their ranged weapons (or start looking for a police box :) ).
Even if the Robot Lords of Xirag have the same vulnerabilities as the
Cybermen, they will be seen as more of a threat because the players don't
know how to take them out at the start of the first game session.
Leah
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:43:08 -0700
To: "Hero List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: New guy/question
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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At 10:27 PM 6/26/1998 -0400, Geoff Heald wrote:
>Hi, I'm new. My brother is very into Hero, I'm less so. But I've been
>playing Hero since 1986.
>Here's my question:
>for Fantasy Hero, using 4th.ed rules.
>I want to have magical tattoos. I see this as three seperate Distinctive
>Features.
> 1) Tattoos--Easily concealable, Noticed & Recognized --- 5pts.
> 2) Magic Tattoos--Only a small group or requires major effort(Detect
>Magic), Always Noted --- 10pts.
> 3) Specific Magic Tattoos--Small group, Noticed&Recognised --- 5pts
>(KS:Magic Tattoos will tell exactly what powers each tattoo can convey)
>
> Now, I know all about taking multiples of the same disad. but my GM balks
>because they're all from the same thing. He showed me how to make a
>Psychological Limitation and Distinctive Features off the same thing
>(always wears pink, must make Ego roll) but feels that one thing can only
>make one Distinctive Feature.
He's correct. Generally, tattoos should only be one Distinctive
Feature, with all three of the above levels taken into consideration.
Generally, since they're Easily Concealed and never are anything more than
Noticed and Recognizable, that should be that; the rest is just special
knowledge about the type of tattoo.
If, however, the magic tattoos are detectable through some other Sense
(such as Detect Magic) and was not concealable (aside from avoiding people
with that Sense, then this could warrant the 10-point DF you list above.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:45:48 -0500
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: RFP Web Site/Steve Long Interview
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
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"Albert Deschesne" <Psihawk@pacbell.net> writes,
>I am REALLY looking forward to this! And Steve (P and L), I'm requesting a
>HARDCOVER version of the same quality as the Champions Deluxe variety. Even
>if it's $50.00 w/o a CD of Creation Workshop in the back. hint hint 8-)
Just be sure that there's a version *without* the CD for those of us that
don't have Windoze computers.
Or, better yet, write CW in 100% Pure Java. *hint hint* :-)
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
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Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 04:04 PM