Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 105

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:52 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #105 
 
 
champ-l-digest       Tuesday, December 22 1998       Volume 01 : Number 105 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: New Skill: Meditation 
    Re: House Rule: Please Comment 
    Re: Magic Lab 
    Re: range of success (long) 
    Re: range of success 
    Zero phase actions 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Duplication Death 
    Re: Superstar 
    Re: Magic Lab 
    Re: Duplication Death 
    Re: Duplication Death 
    Re: Duplication Death 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Re: New Skill: Meditation 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Re: Duplication Death 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    RE: Magic Lab 
    re: HTAs and stuff 
    Elemental Controls (was Re: Power set question) 
    Re: Superstar 
    Re: range of success 
    Re: Duplication Death 
    Re: New Skill: Meditation 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    San Angelo 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Re: Magic Lab 
    Re: Duplication Death 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:18:39 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: New Skill: Meditation 
 
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net> 
 
 
 
> 
>Ok.  I have this nutty mentallist in the group who is dead set 
>on having a meditation skill.  Now I've asked the character to describe 
>how the skill works, and this is what he gave me, in my own words of course 
>"it's a skill that you use outside of combat."  : Fair enough 
>"It allows you to focus your mind." : Ok 
>"It allows to to go over a scene and catch things that you previously 
>missed." : Hmmm.. 
> 
>My reaction to the player was this, "well it sounds like you want a skill 
>that is a combination of deduction, enhanced perception and post cognitive 
>powers.  Uhhh, no." 
> 
>So, was it bad o me to have denied such a request? 
>        I do have some alternatives though. 
>        Buy more deduction was my first recommendation.  But the PC was 
>against this one.  Said that it went against the concept of the character. 
>        Needless to say, I was stumped until a few nights ago, when I 
>thought to myself, "hell.  best thing for the character would be to allow 
it 
>to have post cognitive powers. 
> 
>So, should I allow the character to have post cog or not? 
 
 
Depends. 
 
Does he actually look into the past, or does he review his own memories for 
things he missed and make better deductions? 
 
If it is the first, give him very limited post cog. 
 
If it is the second, give him: 
 
+4 lvls w/PER, Only notices things that required the +4 after meditating 1 
hour (-1) 
+4 lvls w/INT roll, Only notices things that required the +4 after 
meditating 1 hour (-1) 
+4 lvls w/Deduction roll, Only notices things that required the +4 after 
meditating 1 hour (-1) 
 
Thus, if he has a 12- PER roll, 16- with the +4 bonus, and rolls a 14, then 
he doesn't notice what he perceived until he meditates for 1 hour, then 
_ping_! 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 21 Dec 1998 23:23:04 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule: Please Comment 
 
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"F" == Filksinger  <filksinger@usa.net> writes: 
 
F> This is all or nothing, in that you can't have things like "He 
F> hesitates, then continues.  However, his movements are slowed, as if he 
F> is fighting the control", or "He screams, 'I can't control myself much 
F> longer! Get out, before I kill you all!" You can kludge them, but the 
F> don't exist under the standard Mind Control as written. 
 
That is because these are all... 
 
	wait for it... 
 
		SPECIAL EFFECTS OF FAILING THE BREAKOUT ROLL!!! 
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:07:40 -0500 
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca> 
Subject: Re: Magic Lab 
 
>Other than that though, he's not too sure what else he would need to have go 
>into a magic lab. 
>So I pose the question.  What does everything should go into a magic lab??? 
> 
The best answer I can give you comes from a D&D supplement, Aurora's Whole 
Realms Catalogue.  It's got a big pile of stuff that belongs in a wizard's 
lab. 
 
Here's the list (I'm not going to put in any big descriptions, since that 
would take too long).  Some of it may be familiar to chemistry students: 
 
3 Alembics 
3 Aprons 
Astrolabe 
Balance 
Vials, beakers, glass tubing, etc. 
Bellows 
Braziers and burners 
2 Burettes 
Tables, cabinets, shelves 
Candles 
Centrifuge 
Clay 
Coal 
Disscetion Instruments 
Easel 
Files 
Filter 
Gloves 
Heat Mats 
Hourglass/Minuteglass 
Ice Chest 
Jars 
Magnets 
Optic Aids (magnifying glass, etc.) 
Ovens/Kilns 
Papyrus pads 
Pestle and Mortar 
Quern (to powder things) 
Racks/Stands 
Retort 
Glass Rods 
Slate and Chalk 
Sparker 
Sponges 
String 
Tongs 
Vent 
Water Reservoir 
 
And of course, all the myriad things wizards use for their experiments; 
think of a well-stocked Chem lab; lots of different metals, minerals, dead 
animals, plants, etc. 
 
Hope this helps. 
 
Glen 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 21 Dec 1998 23:33:20 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: range of success (long) 
 
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"F" == Filksinger  <filkhero@usa.net> writes: 
 
F> There is also an Optional rule from the Hero System Almanac which was 
F> official in 3rd Ed. Specifically, any roll that is half the needed roll, 
F> rounded _down_, does maximum damage. Thus, if I need a 13 or less to 
F> hit, a 6 does maximum damage, but a 7 doesn't. 
 
That is an optional rule for HEROIC GAMES ONLY.  The hit location chart has 
a tendency to make this less devestating than it could be. 
 
F> I was going to say that this works poorly for superhero games, but maybe 
F> it works fine. 
 
It does if you want a bloody campaign with half the PCs in the hospital all 
the time and a funeral every other week. 
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 21 Dec 1998 23:29:19 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: range of success 
 
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"F" == Filksinger  <filksinger@usa.net> writes: 
 
F> There are lots of ways such a situation can occur. Players may ask for a 
F> one-shot "Make it so we can really lose" scenario. 
 
This does not necessitate rolling dice. 
 
F> You could have designed the scenario to be fairly straightforward, but 
F> player's bad luck or stupidity caused them to end up in a no-win 
F> situation that cannot be readily fudged, 
 
A player's bad luck is all the more reason to relegate to role playing or 
plot device instead of random dice whenever possible. 
 
As for a player's stupidity, rolling dice should not be used to get himself 
out of the situation he put himself into in the first place. 
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PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:17:56 -0800 
From: "Eric Wylie" <erk@halcyon.com> 
Subject: Zero phase actions 
 
I'm working on the house rules for my new campaign and have a few questions 
on zero phase actions. 
 
Aid: In all the campaigns I've played before, we've always considered 
activating a power to be a zero phase action.  I've seen several characters 
with aids they used to pump their own powers up.  Since it is normally a 
half phase action to perform an aid on another character, should it be a 
zero or half phase move to aid oneself? 
 
Desolidification: Again, activating a power has been considered a zero phase 
action.  With desolid, can a character become desolid, fly through a wall, 
become solid, perform a move by and again go desolid through another wall 
all in the same phase?  This seems to be a bit of rules raping when it comes 
to activating a power. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:29:14 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
> 
>I'm working on the house rules for my new campaign and have a few questions 
>on zero phase actions. 
> 
>Aid: In all the campaigns I've played before, we've always considered 
>activating a power to be a zero phase action.  I've seen several characters 
>with aids they used to pump their own powers up.  Since it is normally a 
>half phase action to perform an aid on another character, should it be a 
>zero or half phase move to aid oneself? 
 
It not only should be a half phase, it should be a phase terminal action 
like an attack. 
 
> 
>Desolidification: Again, activating a power has been considered a zero phase 
>action.  With desolid, can a character become desolid, fly through a wall, 
>become solid, perform a move by and again go desolid through another wall 
>all in the same phase?  This seems to be a bit of rules raping when it comes 
>to activating a power. 
 
My rule of thumb has always been that you can turn a power on or off in the 
same phase, but not both. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:43:34 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Duplication Death 
 
The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
 
So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
points?  
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"The lover knows more about absolute good and 
universal beauty than any logician or theologian,  
unless the latter, too, be lovers in disguise." 
        George Santayana 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:34:52 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: Superstar 
 
On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, thomas deja wrote: 
 
> Superstar is a martial artist with a couple of super poewers (i.e. a HA 
> based on weapons of opportunity, autofire on STR). I want to give him an 
> EC or MP composed of Jackie-Chan-like super abilities to simulate some 
> of the wilder things you see in HK martial arts thrillers like CHINESE 
> GHOST STORY, BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR, the DRUNKEN MASTER films--with the 
> special effect of onlookers not being sure if its a trick or not (they 
> might think the see wires when SS does an impossible leap or something).  
>  
> Any sugestions for slots? 
 
Go to:  
 
www.otd.com/~susano/index.  
 
Take a look at the Heroes of HK cinema for write ups of Bruce Lee, Jackie 
Chan, Fong Sai Yuk and the cast of Big Trouble in Little China.  Go to the 
Orginal Characters page and check out Mei Shin Li and Steel Tiger.  Go to 
the Hero System Sourcebook page and take a look at the Wuxia Hero article. 
You also might want to take a look at the write ups for Ryouga Hibiki 
(Anime Characters page) and the cast of Dragonball Z (Worldbooks page). 
Oops, almost forgot, I did the ghost from ACGS too. 
 
And if that isn't enough, let me know. 
 
Yeah, I need to do the Bride and Jet Li at some point... 
And the Heroic Trio... 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:29:17 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: Magic Lab 
 
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: 
 
> >Other than that though, he's not too sure what else he would need to have go 
> >into a magic lab. 
> >So I pose the question.  What does everything should go into a magic lab??? 
> > 
> The best answer I can give you comes from a D&D supplement, Aurora's Whole 
> Realms Catalogue.  It's got a big pile of stuff that belongs in a wizard's 
> lab. 
 
Nice and useful ist, there. 
 
This list came to me from... well... somewhere.  Anyway, I am going to 
pass it on in the interests of amusement. 
 
<break> 
 
This is a "List of Stuff" I found in one of Nathan's RPG notebooks. He 
doesn't really remember the circumstances around the game it originated 
in; it was long ago and far away. I think he mentioned it was stuff found 
in a wizard's cluttered workshop.  At any rate, he's kept it this long, 
and it's starting to get tattered, so I'm typing it out, and I thought I 
might as well share it with you... (this is pretty much verbatim, spelling 
mistakes and all) 
 
(Actually Nate now tells me this was from a Stormbringer game, found in a 
house which was located on a "rift" into the "multiverse".) 
 
Petrified Bantha Pudoo 
Elenbar steel ingot (7)  
Green Metal 
Blue Blade Long Sword 
AT&D calling card 
Cordless Phone 
Instant water (5) 
Bermuda shorts 
"Nerdstar" Operator's Manual 
H.Z.-Pakerd 2-function Calculator 
Bike Lite 
Bottle Kok-a-Kola (4) 
B&W TV 12" 
Plastic Chess Set 
Somy Walkwomon w/Headphones 
A "I Saw The Universe Flushed" T-shirt 
Penthost Magazin -Issues-  
	"Mysshala Nude" & interviews & articles 
	"Morgana & Arthur" & cartoons & articles 
	"Sodom & Gammora" & articles and subscription form 
(7) Blue Bannanna Peels (Very Slippery) 
Wishbone (Chicken's) 
Wishbone (Lizard's) 
Brass Ring 
Pencil 
Workwist the Twisted's Torture Kit for Kids 
Fern (3) Nice pots 
Inflatable Love Doll. Veronica 
4' x 7' Carpet w/steering wheel & 6 manual gears 
41 identicle metal septers 
Lodak disk camera 
32 undeveloped disks 
5 news disks 
2 bottles 75 year old Scotch 
1 bottle of Dom Bauche & Lomb. 100 year 
Can of Matel Slime 
8 Slinkeys      
7 jars of peanut buter 
3 Cowboy hats 
1 WWII pilot hat 
1 Sherlock Holmes type hat 
1 fire helmet 
1 motor cycle helmet 
1 portable nose picker 
Planesphere 
Map to the stronghold of Mordakin 
4'x4' loadstone 
	Currently stuck: 
	4000 paper clips (give or take 500) 
	4 daggers 
	3 spoons 
	2 fillings (teeth) 
	1 set false teeth 
	A sword 
	A shield   
	A corpse in armor 
	4 priests who can't get their belt buckles off 
Alarm Clock (mod) 
Pepper Mill 
Clock Radio (interdimesional reception) 
Audio Tape 60 min 
Water Bed Queen Size 
A Brass Box containing; 
	3 green beatles (trans) 
	1 red beattle (fire) 
	4 glow worm 
Small blue cricket cage with: 
	Metallic Mantis 
Aluminum envelope with: 
	Black coiled cable -ultra thin 
Fist-sized wicker basket w/ 
	3 buzz bees (stealth included) 
Poloroid picture of Nude woman w/ 4 breast & mermaid bottom half, pale 
green hair 
Dirty Laundry; 
	Metalic boxer shorts 
	T-shirt made of bark 
	Nike high-tops 
	Betelgeuse Bizrod's base-ball cap 
	Garter belt for 3 legged person 
	Used orange propalactic (toothbrush) 
Size 9 shoes with the mystic word "ADIDAS" all over them  (1 pair) 
200 rolls of toilet paper (pink) 
20 tips handtowels (lime green) "Hilton" written on each. 
Mango SE Personal Computer 
	2DSDD drives 
	Printer 
	10 meg RAM 
	60 meg hard 
Brass Doorknob 
Sky Hook 
Steel ring w/string attached 
4'x6' piece of invisible blanket 
Encyclopedia Devaca Volumes A-LU & O-Ti 
Red Toe-nail clippers 
"Classic" Swess Army knife 
Varnet sun glasses (1) 
Plastic bag with white powder in it (2 kilos) 
Dented horseshoe 
1 loyal retainer of the orthadontic variety 
17 blue toothbrushes 
 
(Then there's some misc. coins, in particular 1,249,132 pennies at 500lbs 
total, and two objects that apparently defied description so that they 
needed to be drawn. One is 15"x 18" and looks something like a TV mounted 
on a set of handlebars with it's own sattilite dish. The other is 11" x 
3'5" and looks like a cross between a saddle and a guitar.  
  
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:16:10 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
>The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
>by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
> 
>So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
>of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
>points?  
 
As far as I can tell, the cost of one duplicate is gone. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:55:19 -0600 
From: "Lilith" <drake01@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
Personaly I'd have to say it's up to the campaign. IMHO I'd let the 
character keep the points but not allowed to "use" that double for x amount 
of time...say the # of days it would take for a live one at 0 body to heal. 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:32 AM 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
 
>>The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
>>by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
>> 
>>So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
>>of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the 
>>points? 
> 
>As far as I can tell, the cost of one duplicate is gone. 
> 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:55:19 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Wayne Shaw wrote: 
 
> >The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
> >by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
> > 
> >So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
> >of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
> >points?  
>  
> As far as I can tell, the cost of one duplicate is gone. 
 
That's certainly how I'd run it.  I'm not sure I'd call it an 'Independant 
Power', though. 
 
Look at it this way: if your character dies, he basically loses all of his 
points.  If your character has two bodies, then the loss is confined to 
the points in one of those bodies. 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 13:01:44  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:17:56 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote: 
 
> 
>I'm working on the house rules for my new campaign and have a few questions 
>on zero phase actions. 
> 
>Aid: In all the campaigns I've played before, we've always considered 
>activating a power to be a zero phase action.  I've seen several characters 
>with aids they used to pump their own powers up.  Since it is normally a 
>half phase action to perform an aid on another character, should it be a 
>zero or half phase move to aid oneself? 
> 
>Desolidification: Again, activating a power has been considered a zero phase 
>action.  With desolid, can a character become desolid, fly through a wall, 
>become solid, perform a move by and again go desolid through another wall 
>all in the same phase?  This seems to be a bit of rules raping when it comes 
>to activating a power. 
 
Surely using a power is a half-phase action? With Aid and Desolid you 
are not 'activating' the power, you are *using* it. If you want it as a 
0 phase action, buy the Fast advantage from FH1 (+1/2 IIRC) 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 13:03:44  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: New Skill: Meditation 
 
On Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:18:39 -0800, Filksinger wrote: 
 
>From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>Ok.  I have this nutty mentallist in the group who is dead set 
>>on having a meditation skill.  Now I've asked the character to describe 
>>how the skill works, and this is what he gave me, in my own words of course 
>>"it's a skill that you use outside of combat."  : Fair enough 
>>"It allows you to focus your mind." : Ok 
>>"It allows to to go over a scene and catch things that you previously 
>>missed." : Hmmm.. 
>> 
>>My reaction to the player was this, "well it sounds like you want a skill 
>>that is a combination of deduction, enhanced perception and post cognitive 
>>powers.  Uhhh, no." 
>> 
>>So, was it bad o me to have denied such a request? 
>>        I do have some alternatives though. 
>>        Buy more deduction was my first recommendation.  But the PC was 
>>against this one.  Said that it went against the concept of the character. 
>>        Needless to say, I was stumped until a few nights ago, when I 
>>thought to myself, "hell.  best thing for the character would be to allow 
>it 
>>to have post cognitive powers. 
>> 
>>So, should I allow the character to have post cog or not? 
> 
> 
>Depends. 
> 
>Does he actually look into the past, or does he review his own memories for 
>things he missed and make better deductions? 
> 
>If it is the first, give him very limited post cog. 
> 
>If it is the second, give him: 
> 
>+4 lvls w/PER, Only notices things that required the +4 after meditating 1 
>hour (-1) 
>+4 lvls w/INT roll, Only notices things that required the +4 after 
>meditating 1 hour (-1) 
>+4 lvls w/Deduction roll, Only notices things that required the +4 after 
>meditating 1 hour (-1) 
> 
>Thus, if he has a 12- PER roll, 16- with the +4 bonus, and rolls a 14, then 
>he doesn't notice what he perceived until he meditates for 1 hour, then 
>_ping_! 
 
That's going to be an administrative nightmare - the GM will have to 
note every PER roll! 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:22:43 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, qts wrote: 
 
> Surely using a power is a half-phase action? With Aid and Desolid you 
> are not 'activating' the power, you are *using* it. If you want it as a 
> 0 phase action, buy the Fast advantage from FH1 (+1/2 IIRC) 
 
Alternately, set it up as a Trigger of some sort - ISTR that setting off a 
trigger is usually a 0 phase action.  Of course, you have to spend a half 
phase resetting the trigger each time, but it lets you get it in once in a 
fight... 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:16:15 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
At 01:43 AM 12/22/98 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote: 
>The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
>by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
> 
>So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
>of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
>points? 
 
   As far as I can tell, the points are lost. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:18:48 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
At 09:17 PM 12/22/98 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote: 
> 
>I'm working on the house rules for my new campaign and have a few questions 
>on zero phase actions. 
> 
>Aid: In all the campaigns I've played before, we've always considered 
>activating a power to be a zero phase action.  I've seen several characters 
>with aids they used to pump their own powers up.  Since it is normally a 
>half phase action to perform an aid on another character, should it be a 
>zero or half phase move to aid oneself? 
 
   I'd call it a half phase action.  In fact, even when used on oneself, 
I'd treat it as an attack action. 
 
>Desolidification: Again, activating a power has been considered a zero phase 
>action.  With desolid, can a character become desolid, fly through a wall, 
>become solid, perform a move by and again go desolid through another wall 
>all in the same phase?  This seems to be a bit of rules raping when it comes 
>to activating a power. 
 
   It's beyond rules raping; it's a violation of the rules to allow any 
zero phase action in the middle of a Phase.  The general rule is that zero 
phase actions can be performed only at the beginning of a Phase; "no-time" 
actions can be performed at any time.  (It's not explicitly in HSR4, but it 
is the general consensus of how things should be treated, from a list 
discussion about 3 yrs ago.)  To do the above would require Affects Solid 
World (a +1 Advantage) on STR. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:50:45 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: RE: Magic Lab 
 
At 05:41 PM 12/21/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote: 
>Hi, 
> 
>Here's a list of things that I've seen put into magic labs. 
 
   Comments on a couple.... 
 
>*Jars to keep all your samples in. You take samples of everything don't you? 
 
   Don't forget the formaldehyde (made from genuine formaldes). 
 
>*Knockout gas traps that are hard to disarm. This shuts down mundane thieves 
>without wrecking your cool mage stuff like explosions or falling rocks. 
>Plus, it has the added bonus of leaving a sleepy thief on your floor. 
 
   Said thief can provide great raw material for experiments. 
   On the other hand, if you're not sold on that idea, various other types 
of traps can be set:  trap doors (leading to chutes that come out at the 
side of a high cliff), a swinging mallet (make sure the wall has fake 
treasure), teleport traps (two miles straight up), and similar miscreance. 
 
>*An antechamber with a really unfair trap or "murder zone". 
>*A furnace that burns really hot. This is often necessary for creating or 
>destroying artifacts. It's also good for destroying evidence. 
 
   These two can be combined, if a trap deposits its prey in the furnace. 
 
>*A comfy chair with good lumbar support. 
 
   With three guys in snappy red uniforms administering "torture."  ;-] 
 
>*Enough dried meats, cofee and trail rations to support the mage for weeks. 
 
   Don't forget duct tape.  You can never have too much duct tape. 
 
>*A secret escape path that's virtually impossible to enter through. Like a 
>shoot with a fireman's pole and horrible traps that trigger if anyone comes 
>up the pole or touches the walls. 
 
   Maybe this is where the refuse from the furnace goes.... 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:09:12 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: re: HTAs and stuff 
 
> But there is footage of a straw that impaled a TREE that  
> I have seen, its all a matter of physics. 
 
or Lee Jeans... 
 
 BUDDY LEE is BUDDY LEE, Man of Action! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                    oh. wait, here's the kitty. 
 
 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
_________________________________________________________ 
DO YOU YAHOO!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:39:19 -0500 
From: emiller1@worldbank.org 
Subject: Elemental Controls (was Re: Power set question) 
 
I would have to say that I find the concept of the two ECs (Major and Minor 
Shadow Powers) to be highly questionable.  On the other hand, I as both 
player and GM understand the desires and frustrations that spawned such an 
idea.  It is for that reason that I, as a house rule, returned to the 3rd 
edition definition of an Elemental Control, halving the active cost of all 
powers in the EC except the most expensive one.  In this manner, you do 
indeed still get a benefit from grouping in al the minor little powers 
which are still a part of your power concept, without then screwing 
yourself over on the cost of the more expensive powers. 
 
David 
 
 
 
 
 
"Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on 12/21/98 06:23:23 PM 
 
 
To:   Scott Nolan <Nolan@Erols.Com> 
cc:   Hero-L@Sysabend.Org 
 
Subject:  Re: Power set question 
 
 
 
 
On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Scott Nolan wrote: 
 
> >Does this bug anyone else except me?  I mean, two ECs, one for 'Major 
> >Shadow Powers' and one for 'Minor Shadow Powers'? 
> 
> I think it's a good idea.  Two -different- EC's, like "Fire Powers" and 
> "Flight 
> Powers" 
> would be bad, but Major and Minor seem okay to me. 
 
Would you mind explaining your logic? 
 
I'd be leery of /any/ character that had two different ECs, honestly.  On 
the other hand, if the character conception allowed it, I might let the 
player take (for example) 'Telepathy EC' and 'Vampire EC' if, say, he was 
a telepath who got turned into a vampire. 
 
If you allowed multiple ECs for the same effect though...eh.  I would 
think it would lead to players minmaxing the number of ECs that they have 
to get the most benefit out of them - "Well, I've got Big Fire Powers EC, 
Medium Fire Powers EC, and Small Fire Powers EC, because I've got three 
basic AP levels of powers." 
 
I guess also part of my objection is that 'Minor Shadow Powers' and 'Major 
Shadow Powers' mean nothing when separated.  No character would ever 
take 'Minor Shadow Powers' alone as an EC.  What is the distinction 
between the two?  Nothing, they are both 'Shadow Powers', so they should 
either go into the same EC, or not go into an EC at all. 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:40:17 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: Superstar 
 
> Yeah, I _need_ to do the Bride and Jet Li at some point... 
> And the Heroic Trio.. 
 
"Need" is such a strong word, Michael.   :) 
 
 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
_________________________________________________________ 
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:35:48 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: range of success 
 
> As for a player's stupidity, rolling dice should not be used to  
> get himself out of the situation he put himself into in the  
> first place.      - 
 
This guy's never been through the A1-5 series in AD&D, has he? 
 
(Isn't that the series where the players end up in loincloths 
in the Slaver's Stocakades? And it requires ingenuity as well 
as good dice to get out.)  
 
but I digress. We are discussing Transcendental versus 
Predestinational Gaming. The Hero-L charter prohibits  
discussing religion on the list, I declare this thread ended. 
 
  :) 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
_________________________________________________________ 
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:30:18 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
>The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
>by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
> 
>So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
>of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
>points?  
 
In the old rules they said that you had to pay for the character in 
experience, IE if you lost a 65 point duplicate, you had to pay 65 points 
of experience to get them back.  I say thats a crock of um ...stuff... and 
say you regenerate the points back like BOD, it takes a while to build that 
back up but its not gone for as long as the XPS would take to regain.  Part 
of you did die, that should take a while, but to be forced to rebuy a 
power?  Thats just plain wrong. 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:15:43 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: New Skill: Meditation 
 
PS: Detective;  Concentrate, No Range Mods, Transdimensional (time)  
 
      :) 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
_________________________________________________________ 
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 22 Dec 1998 12:25:32 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
Hash: SHA1 
 
"EW" == Eric Wylie <erk@halcyon.com> writes: 
 
EW> Aid: In all the campaigns I've played before, we've always considered 
EW> activating a power to be a zero phase action. 
 
By the book, activating a power is a 0 Phase action. 
 
EW> I've seen several characters with aids they used to pump their own 
EW> powers up.  Since it is normally a half phase action to perform an aid 
EW> on another character, should it be a zero or half phase move to aid 
EW> oneself? 
 
There is no "use a power" action listed on the combat time chart.  In other 
words, it is up to the GM to determine how long it takes to use Aid. 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: GnuPG v0.4.5 (GNU/Linux) 
Comment: For info finger gcrypt@ftp.guug.de 
 
iD8DBQE2f9YMgl+vIlSVSNkRAjyOAKDmh7Jkkx73xH3RRvsIoMC9/Vz/TACgpw6+ 
Lft2eOnL5bWlN1rIBSTOo7w= 
=tUqJ 
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 
- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover 
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \ head. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 22 Dec 1998 12:23:06 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
Hash: SHA1 
 
"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
 
BG>    It's beyond rules raping; it's a violation of the rules to allow any 
BG> zero phase action in the middle of a Phase.  The general rule is that 
BG> zero phase actions can be performed only at the beginning of a Phase; 
BG> "no-time" actions can be performed at any time. 
 
Um, no.  Most 0 Phase actions may be performed at the start of one's action 
phase, and at the 'half action' point.  Some 0 Phase actions, such as 
Multipower and Skill Level allocations specifically state that they may 
only be done at the start of one's action phase. 
 
That said, the desolid example is okay up to the Move By.  He *CANNOT* turn 
desolid after he has performed the attack action, because his action phase 
is over. 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: GnuPG v0.4.5 (GNU/Linux) 
Comment: For info finger gcrypt@ftp.guug.de 
 
iD8DBQE2f9V6gl+vIlSVSNkRAhtkAJ9mCysr99zt+WrEepz/W4NtIdiNLACeMy8D 
iMnhnV5ZWX2/6ODp3jPWRCo= 
=1C/N 
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 
- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:44:25 -0800 
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net> 
Subject: San Angelo 
 
I just picked up San Angelo yesterday and I was wondering how other people 
integrate the rest of the Champions Universe with San Angelo.  I'm planning 
to start a new campain after the holidays. 
 
Thanks for any advice. 
 
Eric 
 
 
 
Geek Code 
**************************************************************************** 
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V 
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y** 
**************************************************************************** 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:19:59 -0800 (PST) 
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
Greetings! 
 
- ---Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote: 
 
>    It's beyond rules raping; it's a violation of the rules to allow any 
> zero phase action in the middle of a Phase.  The general rule is that zero 
> phase actions can be performed only at the beginning of a Phase; "no-time" 
> actions can be performed at any time.  (It's not explicitly in HSR4, but it 
> is the general consensus of how things should be treated, from a list 
> discussion about 3 yrs ago.)  To do the above would require Affects Solid 
> World (a +1 Advantage) on STR. 
 
      This brings up an interesting question (at least, to MY mind). 
 
      How do you figure the cost of an advantage to a characteristic that you 
have not increased over the base (i.e. FREE) points? 
      For instance, in the above example, if the desolid character only had 
his original base STR of 10, how much would it cost to add Affects Solid World? 
 
Dale A. Ward 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:46:59 -0800 (PST) 
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Magic Lab 
 
Greetings! 
 
- ---Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net> wrote: 
> 
> In my current champaign, one of my PC's is a mage.  Recently he decided to 
> start constructing a magic Lab.  unfortunately, he's not to certain what he 
> wants in it.  He knows that he wants magical texts, alchemy gear, spell 
> components and the occasional item. 
>  
> Other than that though, he's not too sure what else he would need to have go 
> into a magic lab. 
> So I pose the question.  What does everything should go into a magic lab??? 
 
      Having had considerable experience with wizards involved in research, I 
offer the following suggestions: 
 
1) A fire extinguisher (very important) 
 
2) A mundane tool box containing (at least): 
   a) a decent set of wrenches, box- and open-end, standard and metric * 
   b) a 20 oz. claw hammer *  ** 
   c) Marvel Mystery Oil *** 
   * I suggest Craftsman for the excellent lifetime guarantee. 
  ** also useful when the summoning goes awry. 
 *** there's no end to the uses for THIS stuff! 
 
3) 2 or 3 pairs of scissors 
   (darned apprentices always borrowing the best ones) 
 
Dale A. Ward 
(speaking from painful experience) 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:43:26 -0800 (PST) 
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@prog1.caprica.com> 
Subject: Re: Duplication Death 
 
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
 
> >The HSR says that a duplicate that has been killed cannot be reactivated 
> >by recombining.  "The character has lost a part of himself," we are told. 
> > 
> >So....what happens to the points?  Are they lost?  Is Duplication a form 
> >of Independent power?  Or does the base character get back the  
> >points?  
>  
> In the old rules they said that you had to pay for the character in 
> experience, IE if you lost a 65 point duplicate, you had to pay 65 points 
> of experience to get them back.  I say thats a crock of um ...stuff... and 
> say you regenerate the points back like BOD, it takes a while to build that 
> back up but its not gone for as long as the XPS would take to regain.  Part 
> of you did die, that should take a while, but to be forced to rebuy a 
> power?  Thats just plain wrong. 
 
Like someone said, if you die, you normally lose all the character, so I  
can see the logic their working on.  Personally, it seems a bit harsh to  
me, since one of the uses of duplication is to buy a lot of weaker  
characters...who might well be more likely to die than a normal super. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #105 
***************************** 


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