Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 12
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 2:12 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #12
champ-l-digest Wednesday, November 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 012
In this issue:
Re: Powers set Hero has trouble with
Re: FFH - Monster Trainer
Re: Powers set Hero has trouble with
Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
Re: Limited Power: Blade
Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
Re: Question on powers
Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Re: Limited Power: Blade
Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Re: Question on powers
Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Re: "Vancian" Magic
Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
Re: Question on powers
Re: Question on powers
Re: 100% Damage Reduction?
Re: Nauseating Smells
Re: Different Disads
Re: Nauseating Smells
Re: "Vancian" Magic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:35:03 +1000
From: happyelf <jonesmj@cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Powers set Hero has trouble with
>
<final post. . i promise. .>
> I didn't see the post where you made this statement... and, frankly, I
> don't see the parallel. A 1000+ point Godzilla clone as a Follower for 10
> points is totally outside the realm of the printed rules, simply because
> Followers cost 5:1, and 1:1 if the total is greater than the owner's, and
> Limitations are not allowed. (Although they *are* allowed on Summon, so it
> is theoretically possible to get that Godzilla clone for 10 points.)
> On the other hand, it's a relatively simple matter (mathematically
> speaking) to extend the Damage Reduction table using the formula of +25% to
> Reduction for 2x points. For that matter, it would be *theoretically*
> possible to get 125% Damage Reduction for four times the cost of 75%, thus
> *getting back* STUN and BODY when hit -- though just try getting that past
> any GM (even if it does cost 240 points per damage type, if resistant).
>
this is the exact opposite of what makes sence to me. You HAVE followers,you
can GET a 1000 point follower for 200 points (depending on your own points
level).
The only thing wrong is the cost.
you DON'T HAVE 100% damage reduction! how can you argue that it lies more
within the rules than 10 pt gozilla? ones a mis-cost issue, the others a
non-existant power
AND a mis-cost.
> >i mean hey, you can ignore the point if you want, i mean it's not like
> >the 100% dr construct is based on anything that MAKES SENCE,
> >and i'm happy to call names and stuff if that's what your after.
>
> No, just remember to put your counterarguments on the same plane as the
> arguments you get. If someone makes a point mathematically, don't argue
> philosophy.
your math is impeccable. if the chart progresses as you claim- 25, 50, 75,
100,then you are correct. but the chart does not progress in that fasion.
your PRIMARY ASSUMPTION, the philosophical assumption you make,
is flawed. Hence my replies.
> Make your points *specific* and detailed -- don't leave your
> connections to guesswork. Leave all salient parts of a conversation in
> your quoted material (though at least you don't quote back every last byte,
> or fail to quote at all). I know you can handle this, because you've done
> it before and made your points very clear, not to mention convincing, in
> the process.
> And if you think the Damage Reduction table doesn't make sense, then
> just say that directly; don't hide it behind a discussion of a rules
> proposal.
<one more time: capitals for emphasis>no, the damage reduction table makes
perfect sence- your reading of it
is JUST PLAIN WRONG. The whole POINT of damage reduction is that
SOME DAMAGE GETS THROUGH. That is the PRIMARY ASSUMPTION
upon which the power is BUILT. I am sorry that you can't see that and likely
you never will.
Being indestructable is a COMPLETLY DIFFERENT ISSUE, with NOTHING TO DO WITH
DAMAGE REDUCTION, which works from the PRIMARY ASSUMPTION
that SOME DAMAGE GETS THROUGH! Clearly, this is NOT what being indestructable
ENTAILS.
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 98 10:21:55
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FFH - Monster Trainer
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:16:43 -0500 (CDT), Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, qts wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:03:37 -0500 (CDT), Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>> >
>> >But then how does 'OAF' limit that power? It doesn't. Therefore you
>> >shouldn't get the points for it.
>>
>> Yes it does - in your example, it's been taken away from you and can
>> then be used against you.
>
>So the OAF stays around even after I switch the points to another power in
>my pool? That's an uncomfortable precedent...it would make me (and other
>players) wonder why I can't create an OAF magic battleaxe in my pool, give
>it to Bob, swap the points for an OAF magic sword, give it to Pete, make
>an OAF magic rubber duckie for myself, etc.
Not exactly - it is precedented that a focus *taken* from one character
may be used by another, but *giving*, that's a different story.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:16:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Powers set Hero has trouble with
Bob Greenwade says:
> The last sentence was basically my point. (Though I do believe that
> Damage Reduction does exist as a Power, and that the cost is a simple
> mathematical extrapolation.)
reduction exists, invulnerable does not.
> So then why, as you claim, are the two things so similar?
>
> Well, let's see....
> 25 is the lowest value.
> 25 + 25 = 50, the second value.
> 50 + 25 = 75, the third value.
>
> 10 is the lowest value (for cost of Normal, non-resistant Reduction).
> 10 x 2 = 20, the second value.
> 20 x 2 = 40, the third value.
>
> Seems to me that the fashion in which the chart flows is pretty clear:
> add 25 to the percentage, double the cost. Adding a fourth entry with 100
> and 80 (respectively) is mathematically logical.
No. Its double the cost, for half the damage THAT GETS THROUGH! the last
three words are the key to DR, DAMAGE GETS THROUGH. All seem to agree that
the initial start doesn't really fall neatly in the linnear extrapolation,
but it has to start somewhere.
Thus your simple math chart should be a small program:
1) y = x points == a bunch of damage gets through
2) y = 2x points == half the damage gets through
3) y = 2y points == half of the last level gets through
4) go to step 3 and repeat
> As to the philosophical discussion:
>
> ><one more time: capitals for emphasis>no, the damage reduction table makes
> >perfect sence- your reading of it
> >is JUST PLAIN WRONG. The whole POINT of damage reduction is that
> >SOME DAMAGE GETS THROUGH. That is the PRIMARY ASSUMPTION
> >upon which the power is BUILT. I am sorry that you can't see that and likely
> >you never will.
> >Being indestructable is a COMPLETLY DIFFERENT ISSUE, with NOTHING TO DO WITH
> >DAMAGE REDUCTION, which works from the PRIMARY ASSUMPTION
> >that SOME DAMAGE GETS THROUGH! Clearly, this is NOT what being indestructable
> >ENTAILS.
Happyelf, you summed up this very well.
> OK... Then how would you price being Industructible?
> (Remember, with 75% DR and 80 Armor, there's still a threshold where
> *something* can get through....)
Indestructible should be based upon the campaign for costs. Or not even
assigned a cost.
Example:
You have a player that wants to be Indestructible, have him make a character
on 0 points + 50 disads, of his "other" stuff, and just say he's
indestructible. All damage is ignored, he gets to play with the big boys,
and he doesn't do much in the way of anything beyond a normal. One of his
disads is NCM.
Or
You pick a level that is based on your campaign. If you are playing in a
12 dc 250 point game, 120 points for indestructible seems reasonable for
one type of damage. If you are playing in a 20 dc 500 point game, its a
bit unreasonable. There could be a brick with 40 defenses fully resistent
and 50% reduction to Physical, that brick has spent 90 points in physical
defenses to still take 5 to 10 stun per attack. It is out of proportion to
let him toss all that and for an additional 30 points ignore everything.
In this case it would make more sense to have it cost 200 or so.
However, there are no absolutes in the game system, unless the GM makes
them. If you have a guy who has a 70 str, he might be the strongest in the
world, but there is a possibility for there to be someone with 75 str.
In the comics the really tough guys might seem "nigh invulnerable" but
eventually there is something that gets through.
I think the point about being in the (granted absurd) center of a star
should not be ignored by some wimpy bunsen burner dude.
When someone says they are indestructible, how so? What is the limit?
None? If they were hit by a bus, they ignore it. What about having a tank
dropped on him? What about a battle ship? What about a full oil tanker?
What about a large meteor landing on him? Eventually, even if it hits the
scale of the absurd, there is going to be a limit to how much that
character can really truely just ignore.
Just as Bob has had good experience with his player "Lucky" in a campaign,
I and others on this list have had good experience with having damage
reduction not reach an absolute, the doubel cost for half gets through
works. I have played with other characters that had 7/8th reduction and it
was balanced at that level (granted rather higher than some of the close
minds on this list seem to fathom.....).
- --
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
On Sat, 1 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Maybe what's needed here is a new AE: Reach. It goes only as far as you
> can reach, but automatically includes Personal Immunity (or, at least,
> doesn't include yourself directly).
How's this:
NEW ADVANTAGE:
When designing certain types of "punch-everyone-around-me" maneuvers, it
rapidly became apparent that the Area of Effect options in the Hero System
Rulebook don't quite work. AOE - Radius results in too large of an area,
and AOE - One Hex doesn't expand properly to allow one to affect adjacent
hexes. To resolve this problem a new type of Area of Effect was created:
Area Effect Adjacent Hexes (+3/4). This type of power affects all 6
adjacent hexes, and only those six. Like AOE - One Hex, you can't
increase it's size (if you want to do that, take AOE - Radius with hole in
the middle or personal immunity).
Note that this is intended as a "melee" AOE - as such, it should usually
have Selective or Nonselective applied to it (so that you roll versus the
defender's DCV, rather than versus a hex DCV of 3). Exceptions can be
made for special effects that clearly affect the whole area of the hex
(using a dozen tentacles, for example, or a table).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 03:51:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
> > I think that it is a great idea. My recommendation is to go out
> > and rent the movie "The City of Lost Children". Be warned though. it
Already have, though this was not my initial infulence. My
primary infulence came from an episode of the Wonder Woman televsion show
where there was a villian who was a disembodied brain. Also, when I was
young and read through my old Superman encylopedia, I recall having seen a
villian whose brain could move from body to body (will find out for future
reference on this list).
Lesser infulences included the B-movie 'The Brain That Wouldn't
Die,' as well as other horror/sci-fi flicks (such as, I believe it's
called, Saturn-6), as well as any of the Frankenstein-type movies, various
comic book villians (like Dr. Sun in Marvel), RPG infulences like Cyborg
Commandos, Rifts, and Dark Conspiracy as well as the Anime _Akira_ and
various other creepy viedo games, novels, etc. ad infinitum
- -+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
- -Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
- -=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 10:17:32 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Limited Power: Blade
Filksinger wrote:
> From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> <snip>
> >
> >So why don't firearms get this limitation, too?
>
> In my campaigns, they do.
>
> Filksinger
So is this the equivelent of the "Real" disadvantage from armor for
weapons?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 11:13:20 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
Robert A. West wrote:
> Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > I'm working on a Disembodied Brain NPC who is an extremely intelligent
> > mentalist mutant whose brain was divorced from his body . . .
>
> Wow! I want to see the transcript from that court case! Does it get
> alimony? ;-)
>
> > . . . and can survive
> > outside of a human body in a properly prepared nutrient bath (and limited
> > ammounts of time outside of the bath).
>
> > My problems come in the form of:
> > Physical Limitations- How many? He has no body (no manipulatory
> > appendages, no ability to move, etc.), no 'natural' senses (sight,
> > hearing, smell, taste, touch), and no ability to communicate.
> > However, some of these disadvantages would be offset by certain
> > Mentalist Abilities (360 degree Mental sensing Sense, Mind Scan,
> > Telepathy, and Mind Link).
>
> My $.02:
>
> Physical Limitations
> 20 Unable to Walk (frequent, fully impairing)
> 25 No Hands (Always, fully impairing)
> 15 Requires special Life Support Equipment to Eat, keep warm, etc.
> 10- Allowance for limited offset from TK, Levitation, etc.
> (Also limits category to 50 points maximum)
>
> 25 Dependence on Nutrient Bath (unique, 1D6/turn; 5 min delay)
>
> 25 Distinctive Features, Disembodied Brain (Not Conc., Extreme)
>
> 10 DNPC Scientist 14- (competent normal, useful skills)
>
> Vulnerabilities
> 30 2xBODY from Physical Killing Attacks (very common)
> 15 1.5xBODY from Energy Killing Attacks (very common)
> ---
> 155 Total Disadvantages
>
> Sell Back Everyman Powers
> 12- 6" Running
> 2- 2" Swimming
> 30- Normal Sight (Discriminatory Spatial Awareness)
> 20- Normal Hearing (Discriminatory Sense + Ranged for Hearing Group)
> ---
> 64- Everyman Powers sold back.
>
> For a character like this, I sometimes just lift the rule on maximum
> Limitations, in lieu of adding a "villain bonus" or experience, and this
> guy will probably have a host of Psychological Limitations to boot. I
> suggest selling back everyman powers, rather than taking a physical
> limitation, if a character is giving up normal senses, since the
> character usually buys back other senses that somewhat offset the
> limitation. Some people may disagree with my pointing of Normal Sight
> and Hearing, but barring a pronouncement in 5th Edition that clarifies
> the active and real point totals for those powers, those are what I use.
>
> The Physical Limitation "Requires Special Life Support" may seem at first
> to be redundant with the Dependence, that is not so. They have the same
> special effect, but are not the same Disadvantage. The nutrient bath is
> needed to provide the environment that allows the brain to survive at
> all, but there is other equipment that is necessary to keep the bath
> oxygenated, at a constant temperature of 37C, and to process nutrients in
> the way that the digestive system and Liver do in a normal person. As
> such, the Brain has the following problems:
>
> Loss of power = cannot breathe
> Loss of feeder tubes = cannot eat
> Cannot adapt to small temperature changes, especially if out of the bath.
>
> Thus, a simple Change Environment may be deadly to the Brain. Moreover,
> the entire complex that protects the Brain is highly immobile.
>
> The Dependence has a long period (5 min) to the first onset of problems,
> and a shorter period (turn) between taking STUN thereafter. In such
> cases, I think it is simplest to average the point contribution of the
> two times. I also regarded the batch as "unique", which is two steps
> rarer than "uncommon". To be "Unique," the object of the dependence need
> not be irreproducable, just not reproducable in an emergency without
> advance preparation. Thus, the Brain may have an escape pod set up with
> an emergency version of the bath that can take him to his back-up base,
> but if the heroes destroy that, he is SOL, and will probably die.
>
> By the same token, the heroes are unlikely to be able to construct one in
> a hurry if they carelessly destroy his base.
>
> --
> <------------------------------------------------------->
> Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
> Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
> http://www.erols.com/robtwest
My two cents worth. Build the living brain as a computer with ego (IE an AI).
The disembodyment problem goes away then. The vat of special solution and what
ever else the brain needs to survive are now special effects. Any movement or
sence powers now have to be bought normally. The loss of the disadvantages are
more then offset by the 5 for 1 purchase price for computers.
Of course if you allow this you have to watch for the rule abouse of 50 points
for 250 point computer and then 50 points for the 250 automaton/vehicle to
house it. I did this once, called the character Gemini. It ended up being rto
unbalancing for the game so I retired him after only playing 4 scenerios.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 10:51:57 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Question on powers
Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>
> > FTL is not impossible. All the math says is that it is impossible for an
> > object with rest mass to travel *at* c: e = mc^2. It is certainly possible
> > for an object to travel faster than c (although measuring such objects is
> > problematic). You can accelerate ("deceleration" is acceleration)
> > asymptotically to c, but you can never achieve it while you have mass.
>
> Actually, an object with real rest mass can't travel faster than c, as its mass
> becomes imaginary (an object with imaginary rest mass, whatever that means, can
> travel faster than c but cannot travel at or slower than c). As a side effect,
> any effect which travels faster than c and can actually transfer information
> (certain virtual objects can travel faster than c but have no energy or
> information content, which makes the point somewhat irrelevant) will allow
> causality violations; if a normal object can actually travel FTL that will
> imply time travel.
I don't know what imaginary means for you physacists, but for us mathmaticians it
is the square root of -1. Does this mean that tachyons have a measurable mass of
the square root of -1?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 11:33:05 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
qts wrote:
> <snip>
> >* Hmm. Killing Attack, 10 points per die. No range, only does base
> >damage. Ranged and Str Adds would both be +1/2 advantages available for
> >this power. That would make things come out even no matter what
> >combination of advantages were put on the power. It's also one step
> >closer to a 'generic building block' for HERO. Comments?
>
> I'll have to think about that one.
> qts
The problem is that the next 1/2 advantage is alot cheaper. A 10 point power at a
+1 is cheaper then a 15 point power at a +1/2 by 2.5 points. Currenly a 2D6 HKA,
AP and a 2D6 RKA, Exp cost 45 point, under your proposed system they would only
cost 40 points. This may not seem to be much, but when applied to a common assault
rifle the increased power level becomes clear. In my campaign, I define an M16 as
2D6-1 RKA, Auto (5), AP, +1 OCV, +1 RMod, OAF, Indp, Str Min 1/3, Str Doesn't Add,
2H, Beam, 15+ Jamm with 1/2 phase clear (for a 1/2 disad), with 4 32 shot clips:
total cost 12 points with a 15 str min (note in my campaign 2D6-1 is 27 active
points not 25). Under your proposed change I could get the same basic weapon as a
2D6+1 RKA with a +2 RMod instead of the +1 OCV and +1 RMod for the same 12
points. Viper would certainly love this rule change.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 11:43:48 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Limited Power: Blade
Robert A. West wrote:
> Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> >
> >
> > It's one of those 'realistic' limitations like 'Real armor', that don't
> > get used a lot, and never* in a superheroic setting.
> >
> > J
> >
> > * - And now someone will disprove me with one exampl, once again reminding
> > me to 'never say never'.
>
> Actually, I have seen this type of limitation used fairly often in a
> superheroic setting, whereever real-world equipment must nevertheless be
> bought with character points.
>
> - The follower or DNPC who is a skilled normal.
> - A VPP used to buy real-world or near-real-world combat equipment.
> - When agents are described with a real-point limit on their equipment,
> essentially having a VPP.
> - When NPCs are written up using Superheroic rules, either for
> publication or because the GM prefers it that way.
> - As a mandatory limitation when a player wants to add something that is
> not "in concept" but can be readily obtained: the Projector who
> buys a 9mm weapon to surprise the villain who is immune to his
> energy blasts; the Martial Artist who wants some Kevlar armor
> for occasional use.
>
> I grant that these are all exceptional situations, but that does not mean
> that they don't come up in a lot of campaigns.
>
> --
> <------------------------------------------------------->
> Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
> Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
> http://www.erols.com/robtwest
I see it in every agent in my campaign (which has been pointed out to me may be
as much as 25% of the city's 1 million population) has armor that carries the
real limitaiton. In my campaign standard kevlar is defined as OIF, Indp, 1/2
Weight, Real, Arblative. Anyone wanting to use it must either purchase it with
hero points or take it from someone who has.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 12:22:21 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> > Maybe what's needed here is a new AE: Reach. It goes only as far as you
> > can reach, but automatically includes Personal Immunity (or, at least,
> > doesn't include yourself directly).
>
> How's this:
>
> NEW ADVANTAGE:
> When designing certain types of "punch-everyone-around-me" maneuvers, it
> rapidly became apparent that the Area of Effect options in the Hero System
> Rulebook don't quite work. AOE - Radius results in too large of an area,
> and AOE - One Hex doesn't expand properly to allow one to affect adjacent
> hexes. To resolve this problem a new type of Area of Effect was created:
> Area Effect Adjacent Hexes (+3/4). This type of power affects all 6
> adjacent hexes, and only those six. Like AOE - One Hex, you can't
> increase it's size (if you want to do that, take AOE - Radius with hole in
> the middle or personal immunity).
>
> Note that this is intended as a "melee" AOE - as such, it should usually
> have Selective or Nonselective applied to it (so that you roll versus the
> defender's DCV, rather than versus a hex DCV of 3). Exceptions can be
> made for special effects that clearly affect the whole area of the hex
> (using a dozen tentacles, for example, or a table).
>
How about Area Effect Hex with Autofire. By the rules you would only get 5 out
of the six hexes. If you were really nice to the GM and made your pleading roll,
s/he might just let you effect the sixth hex at no additional cost or at an only
slightly higher cost (depending on how much you made the roll by).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 12:56:29 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Question on powers
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Ross Rannells writes:
>
> > I don't know what imaginary means for you physacists, but for us
> > mathmaticians it is the square root of -1. Does this mean that tachyons
> > have a measurable mass of the square root of -1?
>
> The definitions are different, but the meanings are similar: an imaginary
> phenomenon is one that seemingly nonsensical, but is mathematically (or
> othewise) valid. The hypothetical tachyon is supposed to have mass and
> energy less than 0. Like the square root of -1 this seems nonsensical but
> is mathematically valid.
>
Thanks for the clarification. One more question, if you don't mind, is it true
that tachyons move slower the more energy they have so that they are asymtotic
to the speed of light from the above direction? So that when they reach
infinite energy they slow to the speed of light, or is my understaning totally
off?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 98 13:30:05
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
On Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:15:29 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> Maybe what's needed here is a new AE: Reach. It goes only as far as you
>> can reach, but automatically includes Personal Immunity (or, at least,
>> doesn't include yourself directly).
>
>How's this:
>
>NEW ADVANTAGE:
>When designing certain types of "punch-everyone-around-me" maneuvers, it
>rapidly became apparent that the Area of Effect options in the Hero System
>Rulebook don't quite work. AOE - Radius results in too large of an area,
>and AOE - One Hex doesn't expand properly to allow one to affect adjacent
>hexes. To resolve this problem a new type of Area of Effect was created:
>Area Effect Adjacent Hexes (+3/4).
Sounds about right. Or +1/4 on attacks which already have an Area
Effect.
> This type of power affects all 6
>adjacent hexes, and only those six. Like AOE - One Hex, you can't
>increase it's size (if you want to do that, take AOE - Radius with hole in
>the middle or personal immunity).
Why not include your current hex? As currently written, you can't
affect someone in your own hex. an example would be a giant with a
large sword doing a sweep. You could use the Sweep manoeuver, but if
he's particularly good at it, you could have an AoE:AH HKA.
>Note that this is intended as a "melee" AOE - as such, it should usually
>have Selective or Nonselective applied to it (so that you roll versus the
>defender's DCV, rather than versus a hex DCV of 3). Exceptions can be
>made for special effects that clearly affect the whole area of the hex
>(using a dozen tentacles, for example, or a table).
Agreed
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 98 00:24:17
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: >>>Anime Ninja Crusher Strike!<<<
On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 11:33:05 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
>
>
>qts wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>> >* Hmm. Killing Attack, 10 points per die. No range, only does base
>> >damage. Ranged and Str Adds would both be +1/2 advantages available for
>> >this power. That would make things come out even no matter what
>> >combination of advantages were put on the power. It's also one step
>> >closer to a 'generic building block' for HERO. Comments?
>>
>> I'll have to think about that one.
>> qts
>
>The problem is that the next 1/2 advantage is alot cheaper. A 10 point power at a
>+1 is cheaper then a 15 point power at a +1/2 by 2.5 points. Currenly a 2D6 HKA,
>AP and a 2D6 RKA, Exp cost 45 point, under your proposed system they would only
>cost 40 points. This may not seem to be much, but when applied to a common assault
>rifle the increased power level becomes clear. In my campaign, I define an M16 as
>2D6-1 RKA, Auto (5), AP, +1 OCV, +1 RMod, OAF, Indp, Str Min 1/3, Str Doesn't Add,
>2H, Beam, 15+ Jamm with 1/2 phase clear (for a 1/2 disad), with 4 32 shot clips:
>total cost 12 points with a 15 str min (note in my campaign 2D6-1 is 27 active
>points not 25). Under your proposed change I could get the same basic weapon as a
>2D6+1 RKA with a +2 RMod instead of the +1 OCV and +1 RMod for the same 12
>points. Viper would certainly love this rule change.
Dr N's not mine, but I do feel that seperating BODY and STUNx could be
a useful construct.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:56:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Re: "Vancian" Magic
> I think we have a fundamental difference of ethics here. If a Wish is
> unreasonable, then I'll twist it, likewise if the wish-granter is
> malevolent. But we play this game for MUTUAL FUN, not an ego-trip.
And I don't like the assumption that I do play for an ego-trip. I
just see Wish as beingan inherently unpredictible thing. Probably
stemming from its roots in Arabian mythology.
> > Of course, when the totally insane Beastman Chaos
> >Warrior (anyone recognize that reference?)
>
> Runequest or Warhammer.
Really? I was thinking of Angband, or rather the Zangband varient
of.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:22:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Disembodied Brains are People Too.
On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Brats Incorporated wrote:
> Also, when I was
> >young and read through my old Superman encylopedia, I recall having seen a
> >villian whose brain could move from body to body (will find out for future
> >reference on this list).
>
> I think that would have been the Ultra-Humanite. But I'm probably wrong.
No, I think that's correct.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:44:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on powers
> Things fall. That's a fact. Air has mass. That's a fact. Physics has
> lots of facts. And lots of flaky theories, some of which may prove to be
> true. Physics is also famous for self contradiction and Law by Fiat. As
> an example of the latter, it has been proposed that time travel is
> impossable not because observed laws prohibit it (quite the opposite is
> true) but because no one knows what would happen if you kill your own
> grandpa in the past.
Nope. Couldn't have happened. You exist. If it happened, it
happened, plain and simple.
> Science decided that there are no naked singularities because if there
> were, all of our physical laws must be local rather than universal and
> anything is possable. Stephen Hawking has proved that the odds that there
> is a naked singularity _somewhere_ in our universe is 1(that is, a one in
> one chance).
What exactly is a naked sigularity. I was familiar with the idea
of physical laws being local, but not the reasoning.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 14:17:58 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Question on powers
At 12:44 AM 8/3/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> What exactly is a naked sigularity. I was familiar with the idea
>of physical laws being local, but not the reasoning.
A singularity point existing without a black hole wrapped around it, as I
understand it.
- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:12:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: 100% Damage Reduction?
On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> A while ago, someone posted a set of charts (which I wish I'd kept)
> showing the break-points how the various levels of Damage Reduction (25%,
> 50%, 75%, and the proposed 100%) compare to the same number of points spent
> in PD/ED or Armor, including the breakpoints of where the DR starts
> becoming more efficient than the other construct.
That would be me...glad someone noticed them, since they seemed to get
ignored in the discussion.
Here they are again...
If your average DC is: with this defense you'll take this much
damage, on average*
DC 5 (18 stun, 5 body) 25% rDR (15 pts) 12 STUN, 2 BODY
10 rPD (15 pts) 6 STUN, 0 BODY
50% rDR (30 pts) 8 STUN, 1 BODY
20 rPD (30 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
75% rDR (60 pts) 4 STUN, 0 BODY
40 rPD (60 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
100% rDR (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
80 rPD (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
DC 10 (35 stun, 10 body) 25% rDR (15 pts) 25 STUN, 6 BODY
10 rPD (15 pts) 23 STUN, 0 BODY
50% rDR (30 pts) 16 STUN, 4 BODY
20 rPD (30 pts) 13 STUN, 0 BODY
75% rDR (60 pts) 8 STUN, 2 BODY
40 rPD (60 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
100% rDR (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
80 rPD (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
DC 20 (70 stun, 20 body) 25% rDR (15 pts) 51 STUN, 13 BODY
10 rPD (15 pts) 60 STUN, 10 BODY
50% rDR (30 pts) 34 STUN, 9 BODY
20 rPD (30 pts) 50 STUN, 0 BODY
75% rDR (60 pts) 17 STUN, 4 BODY
40 rPD (60 pts) 30 STUN, 0 BODY
100% rDR (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
80 rPD (120 pts) 0 STUN, 0 BODY
* All attacks are assumed to be EBs, the target has average stats: PD/ED
of 2. Killing attacks may change things.
It's clear from the above that 100% DR doesn't even /start/ to outperform
the equivalent amount of Armor until you pass 20 damage classes, and DR in
general is inferior to an equivalent amoutn of armor on average. OTOH,
its the times that they /don't/ get an average roll that DR really saves
your butt. DR is also better vs. AP, Penetrating, and the like.
None of this matters at the average superhero 10-12 DC range, where the
max damage is 72, and 120 points will buy you enough armor to shrug that
off with some left to spare - 80 points.
And if you really want to minmax your armor, it gets even worse. AT a
ratio of 1:3 resistant to non-resistant defenses, 120 points gets you 35
points of armor and 68 points of regular defense - that lets you ignore up
to 35 BODY and 103 STUN from each attack!
Based on all of this, I'd say that 120 points is a pretty balanced cost
for the utility you'd get from 100% DR.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:09:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Re: Nauseating Smells
> What's the best way to represent fighting in an area filled with a really nauseating smell?
Entangle, based on Con? (Ducks)
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:32:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Subject: Re: Different Disads
> >If the character doesn't have much money, he may have needed to take a
> >year off school (or go part-time) -- that should stretch things out to 3
> >years.
>
> Actually, it's relatively unusual (though by no means rare, especially
> in scientific fields) for a student to go directly from graduating with his
> Bachelor's to earning his Master's. Most take a year or two (or, more
> often, several years) in between to save up for the endeavor.
I was suprised to find out how true this is. I'm just starting my
Masters workin English at the University of Oklahoma, straight out of 4
yrs of undergrad, and out of all the incoming TA's, only one or two others
are right out of undergrad.
-Tim Gilberg
-"Hey! MacLeod! Get off of my ewe!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 11:54:55 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Re: Nauseating Smells
At 01:09 PM 8/3/98 -0500, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> What's the best way to represent fighting in an area filled with a
really nauseating smell?
>
> Entangle, based on Con? (Ducks)
>
>
Ducks don't smell that bad. I mean, unless they're diseased or something.
I'd use a Drain on Dex and Running, combined with a Mind Control, single
command ("Leave the area") and a Change Environment. Or maybe just an NND
(Life Support).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 98 19:42:43
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: "Vancian" Magic
On Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:56:07 -0500 (CDT), Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> I think we have a fundamental difference of ethics here. If a Wish is
>> unreasonable, then I'll twist it, likewise if the wish-granter is
>> malevolent. But we play this game for MUTUAL FUN, not an ego-trip.
>
>And I don't like the assumption that I do play for an ego-trip. I
I've seen too many that do.
>just see Wish as beingan inherently unpredictible thing. Probably
>stemming from its roots in Arabian mythology.
But equally there is the European mythos, with wishes both good and
bad.
>> > Of course, when the totally insane Beastman Chaos
>> >Warrior (anyone recognize that reference?)
>>
>> Runequest or Warhammer.
>
>Really? I was thinking of Angband, or rather the Zangband varient
>of.
Zangband a la Rogue? Warhammer is famous for its Chaos critters,
usually with spikey armour, and as for RQ, remember the Broo.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
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