Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 120
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 6:05 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #120
champ-l-digest Monday, January 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 120
In this issue:
Re: CAK interpretations.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: CAK interpretations.
Re: CAK interpretations.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: CAK interpretations.
Re: Rifts Hero.
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
Re: CAK interpretations.
Re: Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
Re: CAK interpretations.
RE: CAK interpretations.
Re: Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:14:06 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
>From: tstatler@igateway.net (Tim Statler)
>>I was wondering how people interprete Code
>> Against Killing.
>>Obviously the character can't kill, but does it
>> mean he'll have to try and save anyone that
>> is hurt and dying?
Depending upon the severity of the CAK Limitation--reflected by the
amount of points pumped into it--not necessarily. In the standard
4-color CAK (think Superman), a hero will do everything they possibly
can to prevent death on his/her watch--they might even blame themselves
if, through an accident or an oversight, someone dies during one of
their operations (for a sample of this, I recommend looking at this
month's HITMAN, which features Sperman discussing this very issue).
However, there are shades of grey--Wolverine may have a code against
killing needlessly, where he might kill an opponent if he sees no other
solution to the problem. And then we have people lower down the rung,
who may hesitae before killing, but that's it....
If a plaer paid the 20 points for a fullbore CAK, he should do
everything he can to save someone if they are in danger of dying on
their watch--including villians. If they paid less, they might get a
little more breathing room.
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and
the damned were smarter than this crowd."
--Evan Dorkin, DORK #2
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 04:02:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@dojo.mi.org>
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
To me, Mega Damage/MDC meant that whatever I was converting was more
likely to be a Killing Attack. OR, it would mean I should give the
character more Champtions STR. Rifts is a more happy-happy-kill-kill
kinda game, and I never saw a strict translation of Palladium P.S. to
Champions STR as sufficient. I had similar problems with number of
attacks vs. Champions SPD. As you can see, I was more focused on
characters than weaponry, buying weapons only when they were integral
to the character I was making.
Beyond MDC, the problem I had with any tit-for-tat conversion with
Rifts and other Palladium games was that I'd end up with rather gross
disparities in the power levels, especially as later supplements would
inflate matters. (Would you really want to play a Psi-Stalker? Cool
name, but lame power level.) The idea of applying to Dark Champions
in particular wouldn't have occured to me even if existed at the time.
When I wanted to translate a Rifts character into a Hero one, I'd end
up doing it from scratch, coming up wit a point total appropriate for
the concept ripped off from Rifts and spending appropriately, rather
than trying to apply conversion rules.
The best success I had was with Ninjas and Superspies -- arguably, the
least imbalanced of the Palladium games. Yes, I was mostly interested
in the way cool martial arts. :)
- --
Michael J. O'Connor | WWW: http://dojo.mi.org/~mjo/ | Email: mjo@dojo.mi.org
InterNIC WHOIS: MJO | (has my PGP & Geek Code info) | Phone: +1 248-848-4481
=--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--=
"Childhood is for spoiling adulthood." -Calvin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:25:20 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
personally I converted the Kill from fuzion for MDC and treat it as
against harden defences, basically I move it up a level. It isn't
perfect but at the same time I created microdamage for small animals,
treating normal damage as killing and stun only as normal. so it
balances out
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:42:09 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
the easiest way to convert Psi-stalkers is to require seperate END for
magic and psionics. then give them a 75pt. power that when they draw BOD
it drains all magic END and half psychic END. they also get a physical
limitation must drain END once a week. they are still week in modern
settings, but try them in an all psionic or heavy magic campaign.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 08:30:42 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
At 07:20 PM 1/3/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>I was wondering how people interprete Code Against Killing.
>
>Obviously the character can't kill, but does it mean he'll have to try
>and save anyone that is hurt and dying?
>
>Opinions sought and welcome.
By those players who use disads as just a way of getting free points,
CAK will be used as just a way of getting free points. But for those
that actually want to play it out, there are many variations and
gradients.
I recommend as a starting point, the discussion of CAK in DARK
CHAMPIONS.
Depending upon the strength of the CAK, the character might avoid
killing any living thing. Or might avoid killing any humanoid.
He would most likely try to prevent others from killing. Or at
least express severe displeasure when it happens.
But it goes beyond killing. A 20-point CAK would never think
about using any killing-level attack against a living being. Even
if, on the average, the dice would come up in his favor. He wouldn't
fire a killing blast in the near vicinity of another person, even if
the game mechanics say that you have no chance of hitting him if
you're aiming for a different hex. He would probably not even choose
to inflict great pain if it was avoidable.
The person with the high CAK hates death and dying, and would most
likely do anything within his power to prevent it.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 09:46:54 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
>I was wondering how people interprete Code Against Killing.
>
>Obviously the character can't kill, but does it mean he'll have to try
>and save anyone that is hurt and dying?
>
>Opinions sought and welcome.
Depends on how strong the CAK is and whether the character _can_ do
anything to save the dying person. Someone with a weak CAK might try to
save that person if there's nothing more important to do (like chase down
the person who caused the injury). Someone with a strong CAK, but who's
only medical knowledge comes from MASH reruns, might feel he's done
enough by calling an ambulance or a buddy with EMT training. Personally,
I'd count "Must save lives" as a separate Psych Lim.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:00:38 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
>personally I converted the Kill from fuzion for MDC and >treat it as
against harden defences, basically I move it >up a level. It isn't
perfect but at the same time I >created microdamage for small animals,
treating normal >damage as killing and stun only as normal. so it
balances >out
Personally I used the Rifts Conversion book to strip out the MDC before
hand, then converted for HSR.
But then I *hate* the megadamage rules from Palladium, no matter what
it's implementation.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"All good things succumb to those who wait." - Razorclaw
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:58:38 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
>the easiest way to convert Psi-stalkers is to require >seperate END for
magic and psionics. then give them a >75pt. power that when they draw BOD
it drains all magic >END and half psychic END. they also get a physical
>limitation must drain END once a week. they are still week >in modern
settings, but try them in an all psionic or >heavy magic campaign.
Thank you. That's a lovely idea. If the Magic END/Psi END doesn't make
your head hurt.
I might be tempted to use a house rule instead that all mages must buy
and use and END pool to power their magic with...
My solution was to buy Drain and link it to their attack.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"All good things succumb to those who wait." - Razorclaw
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 07:34:17 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
At 07:20 PM 1/3/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>I was wondering how people interprete Code Against Killing.
>
>Obviously the character can't kill, but does it mean he'll have to try
>and save anyone that is hurt and dying?
Basically, it's a matter of personal interpretation, and can even vary
from one character to another in the same campaign. It should be agreed
upon by the player and GM at the time of character creation, and be
influenced by both the genre and flavor of the campaign and the character's
other Psychological Limitations (or general background).
As a general rule, a CAK that includes the above should have a higher
Frequency rating than one that does not. Thus, the situation is either
Common to include saving someone who's dying and Uncommon to only not take
a direct action to kill someone (which is what I'd recommend), or Very
Common and Common respectively.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:24:46 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Rifts Hero.
>To me, Mega Damage/MDC meant that whatever I was >converting was more
likely to be a Killing Attack.
I just did away with the whole idea. That made the Coalition C-XX Rifle
was about the same attack as an AK-47, *but* I rationalized that energy
weapons are more popular because energy clips and electricity is a "dual
use" technology.
>OR, it would mean I should give the character more >Champtions STR.
Rifts is a more happy-happy-kill-kill
>kinda game, and I never saw a strict translation of >Palladium P.S. to
Champions STR as sufficient.
Well it does lend itself to munchkinism, doesn't it? I did the beginning
of a direct conversion table, but the fact of the matter is that you sort
have to wing it by the character concept, too.
> I had similar problems with number of attacks vs. >Champions SPD. As
you can see, I was more focused on
>characters than weaponry, buying weapons only when they >were integral
to the character I was making.
I tended to go ahead and let the conversion go at that point and just go
with the HSR and the character concept. And I am that type of role
player. I am more into characters than the combat.
>Beyond MDC, the problem I had with any tit-for-tat >conversion with
Rifts and other Palladium games was that >I'd end up with rather gross
disparities in the power >levels, especially as later supplements would
inflate >matters.
Again it's case where the original game seems predicated on a certain
amount of munchkinism. For people who play straight Rifts, my version
might seem to be more gutless or wimpy, simply because I delete the gross
imbalances in firepower levels. But I was sort of looking for the
*story* inside the setting and to me that'smore of what I play for
anyway.
> (Would you really want to play a Psi-Stalker? Cool >name, but lame
power level.) The idea of applying to Dark >Champions in particular
wouldn't have occured to me even >if existed at the time. When I wanted
to translate a Rifts >character into a Hero one, I'd end up doing it from
>scratch, coming up wit a point total appropriate for the >concept ripped
off from Rifts and spending appropriately, >rather than trying to apply
conversion rules.
Ah. Okay. That actually sounds more interesting (to ditch the baggage of
the original systrem and just start over agains in HSR). Fopr Psi
Stalkers I was just using the Drain Power. They can actually build up
some threat level that way, but I never got that detailed in my thought
experiment conversion.
>The best success I had was with Ninjas and Superspies -- >arguably, the
least imbalanced of the Palladium games. >Yes, I was mostly interested
in the way cool martial arts. > :)
> Michael J. O'Connor
Actually, in the Rifts Converstion book, they have the rules for
stripping out the MDC rules. Using that makes the native Rifts system
more compatible with both "Ninjas and Superspies" and the Palladium FRPG
rules. From there, describing everything in HSR terms is easier and more
balanced.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
Get a taste of religion. Eat a missionary.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 08:03:39 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
At 06:51 PM 1/3/99 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>> An attack's STUN damage would only translate to the >Pilot if a
>vehicular Hit Location system (or something >similar) is being used, the
>pilot's compartment is hit, >and the BODY of the attack (preferably a
>Ranged >one)exceeds the Vehicle's DEF. In this case, it acts like >a
>Force Wall against the attack, subtracting its DEF from >the STUN and
>BODY.
>
>??? Okay. Where does it say this specifically?
It doesn't, at least not that I'm aware of; neither does it say anything
to the contrary. And where the HSR doesn't say one way or the other, one
must use common sense to determine what's most reasonable in terms of
realism and game balance.
Essentially, a Vehicle's DEF is like the wall of a building. If
something strikes the wall, generally speaking no matter how much damage is
done to the building it's not going to pass any direct damage on to those
inside unless the damage penetrates the wall. The damage itself, as
suffered by the building, could endanger those inside as debris falls,
pipes break, floors collapse, and so forth, but the original damage won't
be passed on to the occupants.
The same principle holds for vehicles. If I shoot a moving car with a
Howitzer, it will generally not directly affect those inside unless I hit
the passenger section *and* penetrate the armor. I might do some Knockback
on it (it's rather likely, in fact), and I might damage some systems that
could hurt someone (especially if I penetrate the gas tank), but the
passengers will be unaffected by the round itself.
If one does pass STUN and BODY along to the occupants, giving Vehicular
DEF an "Armor" effect rather than "Forcve Wall," one could fire a Howitzer
at an armored car and render eveyone inside unconscious. That's not how it
works in reality, I've rarely seen that effect in fiction, and I see no
game-balance reason to have it work that way, so it shouldn't.
>> In TUV I propose that vehicular DEF has more of an >"Armor" effect
>(as opposed to the above "Force Wall" >effect) when protecting the
>passengers from Move Through >and Move By damage; that is, it protects
>those inside by
>>subtracting its DEF from the STUN and BODY done. Devices >such as seat
>belts and airbags halve the damage from a >collision.
>
>This is the way I have been running it, almost automatically. I guess
>that's a house rulew, then isn't it?
Actually, as someone else pointed out, it's in An Eye For An Eye (from
which I lifted almost all of its vehicle-based rules), so it's actually a
published option rather than a house rule.
>>>For example, you might have a high powered brick or >>energy blaster
>trying totake a VIPER tank or mecha suit >>out of action, but he doesn't
>have the time to just >>destroy the thing outright before it pounds his
>teammates >>to mulch, or maybe has a code-vs.-killing that would
>>>prevent him from doing so.
>>>Can he at least hit it hard enough to con-stun the pilot >>long enough
>to get some breathing room?
>>
>> I would say not; whatever "con-stun" is, it's unlikely >that a brick
>could hit a vehicle hard enough to do it to >the operator.
>
>I used the term "dazed". the BBB has two uses for the term "Stunned" a
>character who looses all of his stun pips is stunned and unconscious. A
>Character who takes more stun pips than his CON (I.E. a character who has
>a 10 CON and takes 11 or more stun in a single attack, after defenses) is
>also stunned, meaning he stands around and is unable to act in his next
>phase. I call that "dazed" to differentiate it from a character who has
>lost all of his stun pips.
See pages 160-161, under "Effects of Damage." A character who loses all
of his STUN is Knocked Out. A character who takes more STUN than his CON
is Stunned. I am aware of no reference in the BBB where "Stunned" is used
to refer to someone who is Knocked Out. The only use of "both Stunned and
Knocked Out" is to refer to someone who suffers both effects at the same time.
>>>On a slightly related tangent, using the Abrams tank from >>HSA II as
>an example. How do you achieve the classic >>brick-trick of bending the
>main turret gun barrel up to >>render the gun useless? Do you have to do
>more body than >>the DEF of the Tank as a whole? Or could you allow it to
>>>be handled via a STR roll?
>>
>> In general, since the device is being targeted, I'd use >the device's
>DEF based on the Focus rules.
>> The main problem I have with this is that the Focus >rules gives a
>DEF equal to AP/5, so the Abrams' main gun, >at 150 Active Points, would
>have a DEF of 30. I'm of a >mind that the DEF should be AP/10, giving it
>a more >reasonable DEF of 15, or even that DEF should be declared >at 3
>with the option of buying up at 1:1. (I'd say this >is grist for the
>mill in The Ultimate Gadgeteer!) :-]
>
>That's an interesting idea (AP/10). I would also point out that I tend
>to GM called shots against large inanimate objects as somewhat easier
>than against other characters.
>
>"You've grappled the tank. Now give me an attack roll at -8 to shift your
>grip to the main gun." u-huh.
Personally I'd give the gun a DCV Modifier based on its Size, which in
turn would be based on its AP (see the Device Mass article on my website,
soon to be updated). It might just be easier to grab the tank's main gun
than the Vehicle itself!
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:07:38 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
Well, it's certainly good to hear the other FH fans banging spears on
shields out there. I'm certainly into more FH related discussions. One thing
that might prove helpful is to put some indication of genre in the subject
line. This way, if you've got 130 messages in your inbox, you can scrap all
the genre specific stuff you're not interested in. I'm sure there's lots of
people with no interest in FH while others don't really care to read about
world smashing manga guys, dig?
So, as a FH GM, what I'm pondering right now is job packages. Can anyone
tell me where I can find FH job packages on the web? See, what I'm doing
with my FH game is running sort of a prologue. My players started at the
competent level and are earning their way up to the heroic level. Once they
finish the prologue, I give them their job packages.
The training for each of the job packages will come from the Church of Zudo
in the city of Khore. Khore is a theocracy and each of the six official
state churches control different elements of the sacred citystate of Khore.
The Church of Zudo is dedicated to protecting the city from transmundane
threats and corruption. They operate like a mix of the CIA, Spanish
Inquisition, and Islaamic Jyhad all in one. Since The Church of Zudo is a
religious organization, all the packages involve a certain amount of
religious training and strictures.
So, here are the packages for the Church of Zudo:
Church of Zudo, Brother of Shadows
Investigator
The Investigators are the secret police of Khore. Their primary role is to
ensure that Khore remains free of Stalker influence. They are trained in
detection methods, interrogation and physical combat.
Zealot
Known for their unrivaled courage and fanatical devotion to Zudo, the
Zealots are masters of stealth, martial arts and surviving against
impossible odds. Zealots are sometimes seen patrolling Khore's rooftops,
alleyways and gutters for signs of impurity and corruption.
Hunter
Quiet and lethal, the Hunters acquire their target and neutralize them
without mercy or alarm. They are specialists in shadowing, concealment,
poisons and ranged attack.
Warlock
The Warlock is a versatile spellcaster whose arts are dedicated to
neutralizing threats to the city from transmundane sources. He is learned in
the ways of Stalkers, demons and other otherworldly entities. The Warlock is
expected to deal with threats others are not even aware of.
Crusader
The Crusader is the cutting edge of Zudo's faithful. He must be prepared for
anything and often volunteers for the most dangerous and unusual missions.
His blend of fighting skill, faith and mystical knowledge give the paladin
the self reliance and effectiveness he needs to handle any situation.
Infiltrator
The Infiltrator operates in any environment unknown to his fellows. He
gathers intelligence, manipulates conditions and plants false information.
He is trained in disguise, conversation and propaganda.
So, here's how the packages are getting built.
Point Breakdowns
Total Cost = 15pts.
Disdads = 23 pts.
Total Goodies = 38 pts.
Disads
- -3 Package Disad
- -5 Watched: Church of Zudo
- -10 Strictures: Church of Zudo
- -5 DF: Brands
Goodies
1 Status: Citizen
1 Status: Agent of Zudo
3 KS: Church of Zudo
1 KS: Enemies of Zudo
3 Meditation [EGO roll]
3 Contact: Supervisor
6 6pts. Stat Training
20 Job Module
The Job Module item will be different for each package. For example, here's
my draft of the Crusader Module.
Crusader Module
5 5pts. towards magic pool
4 5pts. Control: Life Sphere [0phase +1/req's daily Meditation
Roll -1/4]
3 Life Magic Roll
1 10END Life Battery
1 1REC Life Battery [-1/4 req's daily Meditation Roll]
3 +1 CSL w/ MA
3 Combat Sense
So? Any comments?
BRI
] Can anyone direct me to (an)other list(s) that deal(s)
] specifically with
] >the fantasy and/or hard SF implementation of the HSR?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:48:27 -0800
From: "David W. Salmon" <dwsalmon@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
On a related note ...
So how does one apply damage to the driver of a vehicle if the driver uses
the vehicle to do a move-thru on a wall ? Assume the vehicle has no chance
of going thru the wall.
I would think that you would apply the move-thru damage calculations to the
vehicle using the vehicles mass and velocity giving the vehicle it's DEF
versus the damage. Then apply the move-thru damage calculations to the
driver using the drivers mass and the vehicles velocity giving the driver
his DEF against the damage. I would also think that the damage should be
reduced somehow if the driver was wearing a seatbelt or if an airbag was
deployed on impact.
Yes/No/Maybe ... ?? Anyone care to take a stab at actual numbers ?
Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
>At 06:51 PM 1/3/99 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>>> An attack's STUN damage would only translate to the >Pilot if a
>>vehicular Hit Location system (or something >similar) is being used, the
>>pilot's compartment is hit, >and the BODY of the attack (preferably a
>>Ranged >one)exceeds the Vehicle's DEF. In this case, it acts like >a
>>Force Wall against the attack, subtracting its DEF from >the STUN and
>>BODY.
>>
>>??? Okay. Where does it say this specifically?
>
> It doesn't, at least not that I'm aware of; neither does it say anything
>to the contrary. And where the HSR doesn't say one way or the other, one
>must use common sense to determine what's most reasonable in terms of
>realism and game balance.
> Essentially, a Vehicle's DEF is like the wall of a building. If
>something strikes the wall, generally speaking no matter how much damage is
>done to the building it's not going to pass any direct damage on to those
>inside unless the damage penetrates the wall. The damage itself, as
>suffered by the building, could endanger those inside as debris falls,
>pipes break, floors collapse, and so forth, but the original damage won't
>be passed on to the occupants.
> The same principle holds for vehicles. If I shoot a moving car with a
>Howitzer, it will generally not directly affect those inside unless I hit
>the passenger section *and* penetrate the armor. I might do some Knockback
>on it (it's rather likely, in fact), and I might damage some systems that
>could hurt someone (especially if I penetrate the gas tank), but the
>passengers will be unaffected by the round itself.
> If one does pass STUN and BODY along to the occupants, giving Vehicular
>DEF an "Armor" effect rather than "Forcve Wall," one could fire a Howitzer
>at an armored car and render eveyone inside unconscious. That's not how it
>works in reality, I've rarely seen that effect in fiction, and I see no
>game-balance reason to have it work that way, so it shouldn't.
>
>>> In TUV I propose that vehicular DEF has more of an >"Armor" effect
>>(as opposed to the above "Force Wall" >effect) when protecting the
>>passengers from Move Through >and Move By damage; that is, it protects
>>those inside by
>>>subtracting its DEF from the STUN and BODY done. Devices >such as seat
>>belts and airbags halve the damage from a >collision.
>>
>>This is the way I have been running it, almost automatically. I guess
>>that's a house rulew, then isn't it?
>
> Actually, as someone else pointed out, it's in An Eye For An Eye (from
>which I lifted almost all of its vehicle-based rules), so it's actually a
>published option rather than a house rule.
>
>>>>For example, you might have a high powered brick or >>energy blaster
>>trying totake a VIPER tank or mecha suit >>out of action, but he doesn't
>>have the time to just >>destroy the thing outright before it pounds his
>>teammates >>to mulch, or maybe has a code-vs.-killing that would
>>>>prevent him from doing so.
>>>>Can he at least hit it hard enough to con-stun the pilot >>long enough
>>to get some breathing room?
>>>
>>> I would say not; whatever "con-stun" is, it's unlikely >that a brick
>>could hit a vehicle hard enough to do it to >the operator.
>>
>>I used the term "dazed". the BBB has two uses for the term "Stunned" a
>>character who looses all of his stun pips is stunned and unconscious. A
>>Character who takes more stun pips than his CON (I.E. a character who has
>>a 10 CON and takes 11 or more stun in a single attack, after defenses) is
>>also stunned, meaning he stands around and is unable to act in his next
>>phase. I call that "dazed" to differentiate it from a character who has
>>lost all of his stun pips.
>
> See pages 160-161, under "Effects of Damage." A character who loses all
>of his STUN is Knocked Out. A character who takes more STUN than his CON
>is Stunned. I am aware of no reference in the BBB where "Stunned" is used
>to refer to someone who is Knocked Out. The only use of "both Stunned and
>Knocked Out" is to refer to someone who suffers both effects at the same
time.
>
>>>>On a slightly related tangent, using the Abrams tank from >>HSA II as
>>an example. How do you achieve the classic >>brick-trick of bending the
>>main turret gun barrel up to >>render the gun useless? Do you have to do
>>more body than >>the DEF of the Tank as a whole? Or could you allow it to
>>>>be handled via a STR roll?
>>>
>>> In general, since the device is being targeted, I'd use >the device's
>>DEF based on the Focus rules.
>>> The main problem I have with this is that the Focus >rules gives a
>>DEF equal to AP/5, so the Abrams' main gun, >at 150 Active Points, would
>>have a DEF of 30. I'm of a >mind that the DEF should be AP/10, giving it
>>a more >reasonable DEF of 15, or even that DEF should be declared >at 3
>>with the option of buying up at 1:1. (I'd say this >is grist for the
>>mill in The Ultimate Gadgeteer!) :-]
>>
>>That's an interesting idea (AP/10). I would also point out that I tend
>>to GM called shots against large inanimate objects as somewhat easier
>>than against other characters.
>>
>>"You've grappled the tank. Now give me an attack roll at -8 to shift your
>>grip to the main gun." u-huh.
>
> Personally I'd give the gun a DCV Modifier based on its Size, which in
>turn would be based on its AP (see the Device Mass article on my website,
>soon to be updated). It might just be easier to grab the tank's main gun
>than the Vehicle itself!
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:59:20 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
>>> I would say not; whatever "con-stun" is, it's unlikely >that a brick
>>could hit a vehicle hard enough to do it to >the operator.
The term "con-stunned" has, for whatever reason, become fairly popular: many
groups I have encountered use it to refer to what is in the rules as
"Stunned", and, in fact, it was once proposed on this list that the latter
term be replaced by it. I do not use the term myself, nor do I think it
needs to be changed, but it should be understood what it means when people
use it.
I expect the reasons are two-fold: Stun and Stunned sound similar enough
that, without proper enunciation, they can be confused, so the term
Con-Stunned might have been created to avoid that. Then new players would
get involved and hear the term and start using it, themselves. So it goes.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 11:03:55 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
>I expect the reasons are two-fold: Stun and Stunned sound similar enough
>that, without proper enunciation, they can be confused, so the term
>Con-Stunned might have been created to avoid that. Then new players would
>get involved and hear the term and start using it, themselves. So it goes.
We use the term Conned sometimes but honestly... how many people are so
lacking in the understanding of context to not know what you mean when you
say stunned? I mean CON is a noun... and Stunned is an adverb, you know,
it describes a state. I know education is pretty poor these days but PLEASE.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:59:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
interpret: Code versus Killing
IMHO it Depends on the points you paid for it.
The 25 point version means your hero
ends up doing silly stuff sometimes
just to save a life.
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:45:04 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> So, here are the packages for the Church of Zudo:
> Church of Zudo, Brother of Shadows
> Crusader
> The Crusader is the cutting edge of Zudo's faithful. He must be prepared for
> anything and often volunteers for the most dangerous and unusual missions.
> His blend of fighting skill, faith and mystical knowledge give the paladin
> the self reliance and effectiveness he needs to handle any situation.
> The Job Module item will be different for each package. For example, here's
> my draft of the Crusader Module.
>
> Crusader Module
> 5 5pts. towards magic pool
> 4 5pts. Control: Life Sphere [0phase +1/req's daily Meditation
> Roll -1/4]
> 3 Life Magic Roll
> 1 10END Life Battery
> 1 1REC Life Battery [-1/4 req's daily Meditation Roll]
> 3 +1 CSL w/ MA
> 3 Combat Sense
Hmmm. From the description you gave above, I figured they'd have more on
the fighting skills than just one level and Combat Sense.
re: 'mystical knowledge' - would they have any knowledge of magical theory
beyond what they need to know to work their life magic? i.e. would they
know anything about other types of magic, both practiced in the church or
by enemies of the church? If so, you might want to consider a KS: Magic
skill.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:25:13 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: CAK interpretations.
At 07:20 PM 1/3/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>I was wondering how people interprete Code Against Killing.
>
>Obviously the character can't kill, but does it mean he'll have to try
>and save anyone that is hurt and dying?
It was once suggested in one of the HERO books, as an example for
Disadvantages (I don't recall which book) that, in a 4 color super campaign,
Uncommon was will not personally kill, Common would not allow others around
them to kill, and Very Common would cause them to risk life and limb for
_anybody_.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:44:17 -0600
From: "Hudson, Robert" <x2rhudso@southernco.com>
Subject: RE: CAK interpretations.
At 1:59 PM Jan 04 Elliot wrote:
>interpret: Code versus Killing
>IMHO it Depends on the points you paid for it.
>The 25 point version means your hero ends up doing silly stuff
sometimes just to save a life.
Personally, I had a character with a 20-point Code vs. Killing
campaign against the death penalty, and urge alternative sentencing against
guys that I as a player would have pulled the trigger on myself if given the
opportunity. [He wasn't always popular with a couple of guys in the group
for his views - I had one guy tell me on-game that if he heard me say 'all
life has value' one more time there was going to be an ass whipping handed
out... He meant his, because he was a light-weight martial-artist who used a
bunch of weapons and I was the party brick, but it was a good scene.]
I think this kind of falls in the area of 'personal interpretation'
that others have suggested - you just talk to your GM and go with what works
for the two of you.
Rob Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:09:50 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Champs/FH: Job Packages for the Church of Zudo[was Other Mailing Lists] - long
- ---Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> wrote:
>
> So, as a FH GM, what I'm pondering right now is job packages. Can
anyone
> tell me where I can find FH job packages on the web? See, what I'm
doing
Well, I have a bunch of Fantasy Hero Package Deals up on my site, but
they are all Archetype packages, as opposed to Job packages (although
I do also have a bunch of Justice Inc Career Packages which were fun
to make).
==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:54:26 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
At 12:48 PM 1/4/99 -0800, David W. Salmon wrote:
>On a related note ...
>
>So how does one apply damage to the driver of a vehicle if the driver uses
>the vehicle to do a move-thru on a wall ? Assume the vehicle has no chance
>of going thru the wall.
Calculate the damage done to the wall by the Move Through, based on the
Vehicle's STR (and/or Size; I present some options for that in TUV) and its
velocity.
The wall takes all the BODY, minus its own DEF. The Vehicle takes all
the BODY, minus its own DEF. Anyone inside takes all the STUN and BODY,
minus the sum of the Vehicle's DEF and their own personal defenses. If
they are using seat belts, air bags, or similar safety devices, they only
take half damage (such devices can be built using Damage Reduction).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:23:53 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN
>>We use the term Conned sometimes but honestly... how many people are so
>>lacking in the understanding of context to not know what you mean when you
>>say stunned? I mean CON is a noun... and Stunned is an adverb, you know,
>>it describes a state. I know education is pretty poor these days but
>PLEASE.
>
>Uhm, excuse me? I said Stun and Stunned sound similar enough that someone
>might (note - might) have started using the phrase Con-Stunned to indicate
>the state of being Stunned in a Champions game to avoid confusion. The
>adverb Stunned sounds enough like the noun (or verb) Stun that confusion may
>result, and so perhaps Con-Stunned came about. How does your statement
>relate?
how often is there going to be a conflict between these two terms? In
combat, how often does your GM say the creature was stunned and everyone
says "gosh, you mean he lost all his stun???" Or when you say you have 15
stun does everyone say "uhhh wow, you were stunned 15 times?"
I cannot imagine how someone would be confused by the two, they are not
used in even similar contexts, and although they sound the same they are
not used the same, nor in the same situations. To me it just seems odd
that someone would get the two confused. To answer your question, it
relates in the fact that if you have a rudimentary grasp of the english
language (say... 2 points heh heh) you can tell the difference between the
two terms without requiring another word.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #120
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