Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 132
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 5:45 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #132
champ-l-digest Wednesday, January 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 132
In this issue:
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: The Kandris Seal
Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
RE: Immortality
Clarification
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Rules Changes in Hero Creator (was Re: Highland Immortality)
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
Broken Kingdoms
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Unknown Eagles (was Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff)
CHAR: Vegita
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:21:49 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 08:08 AM 1/13/99 -0500, emiller1@worldbank.org wrote:
>My suggestion is-- buy the power as a Force Wall, opaque to a few senses
>(smokescreen would be normal vision, probably IR vision as well, and the
entire
>scent sense group), with the defenses probably set to 0, and then use the
rules
>of that power to expand it to the needed length/area.
The problem with this one is that, per the Force Wall rules, as soon as
someone walks through it the whole thing goes down.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:42:26 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
At 10:02 PM 1/12/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
>>Actualy he's the biggest fount of misinformation there, or lack of it. he
>>may know what it is but i bet you dollars to donuts he couldn't tell you
>>when it was going to be released, page count, etc....
>
>
><<Shhh, he might be listening and pull the plug on the whole operation!!!>>
>
>Heck, I'm the author and *I* can't tell you exactly when its due out. :)
Don't feel badly. As the author of The Ultimate Vehicle, I've already
turned in my Final Draft (in October) and I, too, have no idea when it'll
be ready. It could be set to go tomorrow and I wouldn't know.
Not that I begrudge Steve and Bruce for this, at least more than a
smidge. They have a *lot* of stuff going on, between Hero Plus, C:NM, Hero
Software, the online store, and other considerations. If the book's
available by March 15, I'll be happy. (If it isn't, I'll be in deep
kumquats with my creditors....)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:27:39 -0500
From: David_A._Fair@fc.mcps.k12.md.us (David A. Fair)
Subject: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
I'm back, with a new email address. I have been off the list for almost
8 months now, and am only now finally settling in to my new job well
enough that I can find the time for this high-volume list again (I used
to be dfair@sdslink.com, for those who remember me).
Anyway, in the past 8 months my favorite gaming store has closed, and I
know that the Hero site is not always as up to date as we would like,
so...
What new Champions (and C:NM) stuff is out, either in paper or as Hero
Plus stuff? I have Bay City, Alliances, C:NM (PsychLim:Must buy Hero
Products, Unc., Total) but the last thing I got from GRG was Heroic
Adventures Vol. 2. Their Web Site says it is in second printing, but I
couldn't figure out how to order it on-line. Does anyone know where I
can order it? How about Hero Creator, any thoughts? Is it worth it?
Thanks,
Dave
- ---------------------------------------------------------
David A. Fair
Montgomery County Public Schools
Office of Global Access Technology
Elementary User Support Specialist
David_Fair@fc.mcps.k12.md.us
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:51:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
> >Highlander Immortality
>
> Actually there's been multiple long and extensive debates on the topic,
> none of them conclusive.
> Personally, I say to just wait for 5th Edition. :-]
Yup.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jan 1999 10:05:33 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"jw" == joshua windeknecht <joshuaw@igateway.net> writes:
jw> I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
jw> Highlander Immortality
Frequently.
It is a special effect, IMO. Anyone of any consequence in such a campaign
has the ability. Since 'everyone' has it, it qualifies as an 'everyman'
ability and costs nothing (which makes things easier on everyone playing).
The few important mortals get a hefty limitation bonus to make up for the
fact that they are not nigh-immortal and to offset the fact that they
probably start with fewer points. That is, an immortal might be 75+100
whereas a mortal might be 50+75.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:19:02 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 02:30 AM 1/13/99 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
[snip]
>I want to build a smokescreen 32 hexes long. Do I buy Images
>with a 16-hex radius and ignore the fact that only 32 of the 2526
>hexes covered actually contain an image?
>
>Or is reasonable to buy a 4-hex radius Images, noting that it covers
>38 hexes, and just spread those hexes out in a line?
An interesting question. The answer really depends on how flexible the
Images Power is, and how flexible the GM is.
If you can do other things besides the 32-hex-long smokescreen, then
you'd need to buy the 16-hex radius. In fact, strictly by HSR4, that's
your only option.
On the other hand, if this is the only possible effect for this
particular instance of Images, you might be able to convince the GM into
translating the area purchased for the Images into a line, as one might
convert AE:Radius to AE:Line. In this case, a 32" AE:Line would be the
equivalent of an 8" AE:Radius, so you'd buy the Images radius as 8" and
define it as a 32" line.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:10:55 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>
>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
This is why I changed all the powers with innate area effect to have NO
area effect. In order to give them an area, you purchase the advantage
"Area Effect" and follow the rules there (for increasing size etc). This
has the result of making them slightly more expensive to begin with but
less costly as you increase the area as compared to the present writeup.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:36:01 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
In the campaign I'm playing in now, Aid costs 10 pts/die, not 5. In Hero
Creator, how can I adjust this cost accordingly?
Thanks,
Guy
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
- --Charles Fort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:50:36 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: Immortality
> I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
> Highlander Immortality
Yeah actually there have been some immortality powers proposed, I have one
in my house rules (20 points if you can be killed by X manner, 50 if you
cant be killed by any means). However, in practical terms you can buy it
as extra BOD and very low level regen (like 1 per day) except to head
trauma and say that if something exceeds this extra BOD you took it to the
head. Use hit locations.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:10:08 -0600
From: joshua windeknecht <joshuaw@igateway.net>
Subject: Clarification
This is a clarification of the question I asked about Highlander
Immortality. I am going to be playing in a non-immortal campaign, and I
could possibly be the only character with this ability.
BTW, I only have the main book
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:04:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 10:02 PM 1/12/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
> >Heck, I'm the author and *I* can't tell you exactly when its due out. :)
>
> Don't feel badly. As the author of The Ultimate Vehicle, I've already
> turned in my Final Draft (in October) and I, too, have no idea when it'll
> be ready. It could be set to go tomorrow and I wouldn't know.
I know that Kazei 5 went into Bruce Dec 27th or there abouts. I'm keeping
my fingers crossed.
>
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:58:52 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>It is a special effect, IMO. Anyone of any consequence in such a campaign
>has the ability. Since 'everyone' has it, it qualifies as an 'everyman'
>ability and costs nothing (which makes things easier on everyone playing).
That only helps if the character is being played in a game of that sort.
I agree with Bob: Wait for 5th Edition. Since the power is in Heromaker, I
think we can assume pretty well that Regeneration is going to include Return
from Death for 20 points. As a stopgap measure, you could download the
Fuzion Superpowers rules from the Hero site, multiply the desired level of
Regeneration by 5 to get the Hero cost, and you're set til the rules change
(-;
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:52:16 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>No, you buy Area Effect: Line for as long a line as you want...
Problem being, since it's already an Area Effect power, you shouldn't have
to buy it Area Effect.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:46:21 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
The GM may, of course, give you permission to have all of the hexes in the
area strung out in a line. However, there is no provision in the book for
this type of thing, so the conservative method is to just lose the rest of
the area: few GM's will argue with that.
Since AE: Line is twice the length of AE: Radius' diameter, I suppose it
would be reasonable to either start with twice the hexes (not much help,
that's just one free doubling) or have the advantage give you x4 area
instead of x2, or something.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:59 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Rules Changes in Hero Creator (was Re: Highland Immortality)
> From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
> I agree with Bob: Wait for 5th Edition. Since the power is in Heromaker,
I
> think we can assume pretty well that Regeneration is going to include
Return
> from Death for 20 points.
Just noticed this rules change myself. Has anyone spotted any others so
far?
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:41:04 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
> I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
>Highlander Immortality
There are rumors that Champions 5th Edition will have the Regeneration
ability modeled like Fuzion, which has "regenerate from death" as one of the
options (it would be 20 points). If so, you take that and take the method of
permanently killing you as lopping off your head (you have to have a method
of being killed permanently).
If you don't mind being able to be killed by simple damage (although a lot
of it), the method a person in my games used went something like this:
20 Body
2 Body Regeneration
Physical Limitation: Functions like someone with only 10 body, but not
really dead.
This means that when you've taken 10 Body, you're "dying", when you've taken
20 Body, you're "dead". In older rules, when you've taken 30 body you're
effectively disintegrated, and I kept that rule for my game (and based in on
special effect - machine guns generally don't do it). You'd have to take 40
Body to actually be dead. You could also toss in some Armor that only stops
body and allows you to be beaten to "death": 6 PD & ED Armor, if you take
four hits for 6 Body each, which would do 24 Body without the armor, you're
"dead" and need to recover.
You might also throw in Simulate Death.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:39:56 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
At 10:36 AM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote:
>In the campaign I'm playing in now, Aid costs 10 pts/die, not 5. In Hero
>Creator, how can I adjust this cost accordingly?
Half the dice result? I dont know, apparently HS5th is going to have this
as the rules, which to me seems... excessive, I ran the numbers on AID,
building it as straight character point cost and simulating it with
limitations and advantages, and it ends up being about 4.5 points per die
as I figured it, so we already are paying more than it is worth by my
numbers. Aid is powerful, certainly, but not so powerful it ruins the game
by any thought (any more than transform or power pool). It just requires
the caution that a power like that should require.
On the other hand Im the kind of GM where, when I had a fellow make a
mentalist with Mental Defense aid I said OK, and liked it even more when he
put personal immunity on the MD given. So everyone in the group had 20-30
mental defense fading over a week, which the mentalist ignored for their
mind links and such. What it did was make certain kinds of adventures and
opponents less effective, but on the other hand, they could take on people
like Menton without as much fear, and thus certain OTHER adventures were
possible.
That, and I have a house rule that any power with personal immunity has the
chance that someone can figure out how to access that. Thus, when they
were attacked by the Prophet (from a former game, former PC who went a lil
kooky), he ignored their added mental defense and whupped em around using a
device he had designed.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:29:08 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>There are rumors that Champions 5th Edition will have the Regeneration
>ability modeled like Fuzion, which has "regenerate from death" as one of the
>options (it would be 20 points). If so, you take that and take the method of
>permanently killing you as lopping off your head (you have to have a method
>of being killed permanently).
That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
have you killed as a GM? How many of them didnt really "die" in a comic
book manner? I mean does this really demand a 20 point power? Highlander
on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
get his head lopped off on the TV show.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:14:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 09:46 AM 1/13/99 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>
>
>The GM may, of course, give you permission to have all of the hexes in the
>area strung out in a line. However, there is no provision in the book for
>this type of thing, so the conservative method is to just lose the rest of
>the area: few GM's will argue with that.
Another possibility would be to impose a Limitation on it (probably -1)
that the Image forms a line rather than a circle.
>Since AE: Line is twice the length of AE: Radius' diameter, I suppose it
>would be reasonable to either start with twice the hexes (not much help,
>that's just one free doubling) or have the advantage give you x4 area
>instead of x2, or something.
Actually, AE:Line (2"/5AP) is four times the length of the diameter of
AE:Radius (1"/10AP).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:56:04 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>>
>>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>
>Try AOE: Line
The rules specifically prohibit applying the AOE advantage to a power that
already has an area.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:56:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
At 09:27 AM 1/13/99 -0500, David A. Fair wrote:
>I'm back, with a new email address. I have been off the list for almost
>8 months now, and am only now finally settling in to my new job well
>enough that I can find the time for this high-volume list again (I used
>to be dfair@sdslink.com, for those who remember me).
Welcome back! :-]
>Anyway, in the past 8 months my favorite gaming store has closed, and I
>know that the Hero site is not always as up to date as we would like,
>so...
Bummer.
>What new Champions (and C:NM) stuff is out, either in paper or as Hero
>Plus stuff? I have Bay City, Alliances, C:NM (PsychLim:Must buy Hero
>Products, Unc., Total) but the last thing I got from GRG was Heroic
>Adventures Vol. 2. Their Web Site says it is in second printing, but I
>couldn't figure out how to order it on-line. Does anyone know where I
>can order it? How about Hero Creator, any thoughts? Is it worth it?
Answering in order, off the top of my head (although Steve Peterson
and/or Mark Arsenault will probably jump in with even better information):
A bunch of things were released at Gen Con for Hero Plus, including
Unknown Eagles (I have it; it's a very nice WWII campaign sourcebook) and
PRIMUS (been trying to get it; what I've seen looks very nice), among others.
You're up to date on C:NM material, though Worldwide should be out
before too much longer.
GRG has released San Angelo: City of Heroes, a book which I recommend to
any gamer, period. Never mind whether you're planning on using the city,
nor even if your campaign is set in modern times. *This* is how a city
setting should be set up. There's not a whole lot that could be added to
it, though there are several supplemental books in the works. I've no idea
how you can order any of GRG's stuff online, though, unless you go via
WebRPG (at www.webrpg.com).
I'm only slightly less enthusiastic about Hero Creator (actually I have
Creation Workshop with the Hero template). This is much smoother and much
easier to deal with than HeroMaker. The jump from HM to CW is as great as
the jump from hand-worked sheets to HM. It's definitely worth the
investment.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
> effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
> have you killed as a GM? How many of them didnt really "die" in a comic
> book manner? I mean does this really demand a 20 point power? Highlander
> on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
> get his head lopped off on the TV show.
Depends on the kind of campaign you run. In a typical supers game, yeah,
Mr Immortal is only going to get to use his powers if he has really low
defenses vs killing attacks. OTOH, if you run a game where folks don't
have Damage Resistance or access to armor, guns can get more lethal.
One thing I enjoyed throwing at my players was a gang of goons with mostly
normal stats and armed with clubs. All of the PC's had to pull their
punches or risk really seriously injuring them. (Of course, it was all a
big diversion while a mentalist picked open their brains.)
- --
Rick Jones For three years now, you've been pulling everyone's strings,
rick@blkbox.com getting us to do all the work and you haven't done a damn
thing but stand there and look cryptic!
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Sheridan, B5, Interludes and Examinations
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 99 15:28:27
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:16:27 -0500, Indiana Joe wrote:
>At 11:13 AM -0500 1/13/99, qts wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:30:38 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>>
>>>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>>>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>>>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>>>
>>>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>>>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>>>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>>>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>>
>>Try AOE: Line
>
> You mean to use AOE:Line instead of the default AOE rules for the power
>(Images, Darkness, Change Enviroment, etc), right?
What makes you think they're alternatives?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:35:18 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
> At 10:36 AM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote:
> >In the campaign I'm playing in now, Aid costs 10 pts/die, not 5. In Hero
> >Creator, how can I adjust this cost accordingly?
>
> Half the dice result? I dont know, apparently HS5th is going to have this
> <Snipped the bit about Aid being worth 4.5 points>
Aid is very abuasable, but most anything is. 10 points just makes it more
difficult. Most fixes that Hero puts out either cripples a power
or opens up some new abuse. And one persons abuse is another persons tool.
It's only when they're in the same campaign that it's a problem.
> On the other hand Im the kind of GM where, when I had a fellow make a
> mentalist with Mental Defense aid I said OK, and liked it even more when he
> put personal immunity on the MD given. So everyone in the group had 20-30
> mental defense fading over a week, which the mentalist ignored for their
> mind links and such. What it did was make certain kinds of adventures and
> opponents less effective, but on the other hand, they could take on people
> like Menton without as much fear, and thus certain OTHER adventures were
> possible.
No problem with that. Under 3rd edition we wound up having many of the
energy projectors using the End battery abuse, so that they could be on
the same power level as the bricks & martial artists.
> That, and I have a house rule that any power with personal immunity has the
> chance that someone can figure out how to access that.
Sounds fine as long as it's used sparingly.
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:49:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
What is "Unknown Eagles" again? A sourcebook for WWII or a Golden Age
campaign?
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:42:33 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
> Actually, AE:Line (2"/5AP) is four times the length of the diameter of
>AE:Radius (1"/10AP).
Oh, Bob, I knew someone was going to say that right after I posted, but I
didn't expect it to be you. I'm so disappointed.
1"/10 AP is the radius of the area, not the diameter. Diameter is twice the
radius. Hence, AE: Line is twice the diameter. I used diameter because it is
closer to what the line is in terms of effect than the radius is.
(-;
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:37:29 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>> That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
>> effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
>> have you killed as a GM? How many of them didnt really "die" in a comic
>> book manner? I mean does this really demand a 20 point power? Highlander
>> on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
>> get his head lopped off on the TV show.
>
>Depends on the kind of campaign you run. In a typical supers game, yeah,
>Mr Immortal is only going to get to use his powers if he has really low
>defenses vs killing attacks. OTOH, if you run a game where folks don't
>have Damage Resistance or access to armor, guns can get more lethal.
And not everyone plays in superhero games. This power will be very
useful in my Fantasy Hero game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:13:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
Mark Lemming writes:
> Aid is very abuasable, but most anything is. 10 points just makes it more
> difficult. Most fixes that Hero puts out either cripples a power
> or opens up some new abuse. And one persons abuse is another persons tool.
> It's only when they're in the same campaign that it's a problem.
Well, the main problem was usually not aid directly, it was with the +2
'affects all powers in a group' advantage, or the +1/2 point per +1 max effect.
That and at 5 pts/die aid really _was_ too cheap for a healing effect,
particularly since it never defined how aid max actually worked for healing.
Not that you couldn't get some creative abuses with aid... like the
'super-mechanic' power: aid (+1d6, max 20; 12 base), affects all mechanical
devices (+2), +8 levels extra time (season, '90 day warranty'); 60 active
points. Now we add OAF (tools;-1), extra time (one turn;-1), limited power:
must add all powers in the power group separately (-1/2 -- the effect is that
its like a variable aid, only aiding the second power doesn't cause the first
aid to go away), concentration (half DCV; -1/4), total of -2.75, for 16 real
points... with aid at 10/die this either goes up to 85 active points (problem
if you have an active point cap, otherwise 23 points is still not a big deal)
or to a max of 10 points.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:15 -0800
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: Broken Kingdoms
Anyone here seen it yet? I'm chomping at the bit to see a review...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:14:33 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>> That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
>> effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
>> have you killed as a GM? How many of them didn't really "die" in a comic
>> book manner? I mean does this really demand a 20 point power? Highlander
>> on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
>> get his head lopped off on the TV show.
>
>Depends on the kind of campaign you run. In a typical supers game, yeah,
>Mr Immortal is only going to get to use his powers if he has really low
>defenses vs killing attacks. OTOH, if you run a game where folks don't
>have Damage Resistance or access to armor, guns can get more lethal.
Yeah but you know, it always ends up the guy with regeneration sucks up the
most BOD damage, the guy with high defenses gets shot the most LOL cause as
a GM you want it challenging and scary but you dont wanna butcher the PCs.
After all, what fun is it when players get chopped up and die in a hurry?
The trick is to have a threat that doesnt go off, like a Hitchcock movie
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:01:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Rick Jones wrote:
> Christopher Taylor wrote:
> > That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
> > effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
> > have you killed as a GM?
Well, I'd be a lot more likely to kill a character if it wasn't going to
be permanent...
> > Highlander
> > on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
> > get his head lopped off on the TV show.
Yeah...but now the GM is free to kill him in other ways, or he can do
things that no sane person would do without fear of death. "You guys run
for it, I'll stay behind and hold off the 300 soldiers armed with
automatic weapons..."
Or, like in one of the only decent scenes in Highlander 2 ("There should
have been only one!") where MacLeod and Ramirez are shot to 'death', and
their bodies are stored inside the place they wanted to get to. (I forget
all of the details...)
Or even 'I'm being pursued, and I need to get away...hmm...I'll jump off
of this handy cliff!' wheeeSPLAT. Pursuers, "Hmm, looks like bird food,
he's dead, let's go have a beer."
Basically, it's incredibly freeing for the character, because you can get
away with a whole passel of stuff you never would be able to in any other
circumstance.
> Depends on the kind of campaign you run. In a typical supers game, yeah,
> Mr Immortal is only going to get to use his powers if he has really low
> defenses vs killing attacks. OTOH, if you run a game where folks don't
> have Damage Resistance or access to armor, guns can get more lethal.
Or, a fantasy game for that matter. 'regenerate from death' is just what
the doctor ordered for certain monsters (trolls, necromancers, various
types of undead, etc).
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:26:06 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Unknown Eagles (was Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff)
At 09:07 PM 1/13/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
>
>What is "Unknown Eagles" again? A sourcebook for WWII or a Golden Age
>campaign?
Yes, and no.
It's really more of a WWII campaign book, with a focus on top-secret
heroic-level activity in the skies.
While I don't typically care for such "vertical-market" gaming material,
this had enough to make it very useful for other purposes of mine, and is
an interesting read besides.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:44:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Vegita
[Don't say I didn't warn you...]
VEGITA
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
48 STR 38 19- 18.75 tons; 9 1/2d6
30 DEX 60 15- OCV: 3 / DCV: 3
35 CON 50 16-
20 BODY 20 13-
13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 12-
10 EGO 0 13- ECV: 6
23 PRE 13 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
10 COM 0 12-
28 PD 18 Total: 28 PD / 12 PDr
28 ED 21 Total: 28 ED / 12 EDr
6 SPD 20 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
18 REC 2
100 END 15
65 STUN 3
Total Characteristics Cost: 263
Movement: Flight: 30" / 120"
Running: 12" / 24"
Superleap: 20" / 40"
Swimming: 4" / 8"
Teleport: 12"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
40 Combat Skill Levels: +5 with All Combat
18 Combat Skill Levels: +6 vs Range, all attacks
Martial Arts: Saiyan Combat Training
Maneuver OCV DCV Damage
4 Block +2 +2 Block, Abort
4 Dodge +0 +5 Dodge vs All, Abort
5 Flying Dodge +0 +4 Dodge vs All, Abort; Full Move
3 Joint Lock -1 -1 Grab Two Limbs, 68 STR to hold
5 Kick -2 +1 17 1/2d6 Strike
4 Knee/Elbow Strike +2 +0 15 1/2d6 Strike
4 Knife Hand -2 +0 1d6+1 HKA (2 1/2d6 w/STR)
4 Punch +0 +2 15 1/2d6 Strike
16 +4 Damage Classes with Martial Arts
Saiyajin Racial Powers:
6 Toughness: Damage Resistance: 6 PD, 6 ED
3 Life Support: Immune to Aging
12 Great Strength: 1/2 END on STR
Super-Saiyajin Powers:
50 Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
Full Phase (-1/2)
32 Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),
0 END (+1/2), Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid
levels (-1), Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1)
Ki Powers:
300 Ki Powers Multipower: 300 Point Pool
20 u - Big Bang Attack: EB: 30d6, AoE: Cone (+1),
Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), END 30
9 u - Galick-Ho: EB: 38d6, Full Phase (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4),
Gestures (-1/4), END 19
12 u - Ki Blast: EB: 25d6, END 12
16 u - Kienzan: RKA: 5d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2), Full Phase (-1/2),
Gestures (-1/4), END 11
10 u - Renzoku Energy Dan: EB: 16d6 Autofire 10 (+3/4),
1/2 END (+1/2), Full Phase (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), END 4 per
shot
30 Missle Deflection: All Ranged Attacks, +5 OCV
97 Bukujutsu: Flight: 30", x4 NCM, 0 END (+1/2)
12 Running: +6" (12" total), END 2
14 Sanzouken: Teleport: 12", No Non-combat movement (-1/4), Must be
able to cross distance normally (-1/2), END 2
11 Superleap: +11" (20" total), END 2
2 Swimming: +2" (4" total), END 1
37 Ki Sense: Detect: Ki, Discriminatory, Ranged, Sense, Telescopic
+8, 360 degree
Equipment:
12 Freezer Armor: Armor: DEF 12, Locations 10-12 (-1 1/2), OIF (-1/2)
Background Skills:
3 Acrobatics 15-
3 AK: "Known Space" 12-
3 Breakfall 15-
7 Combat Sense 14-
10 Defense Manuever (full)
5 Analyze Style 14-
3 KS: "Known Space" 12-
3 Saiyajin People and History 12-
2 PS: Mercenary/Warrior 11-
2 PS: Prince 11-
3 Stealth 15-
3 Streetwise 14-
7 Survival 13-
1 TF: Spaceship
847 Total Powers & Skills Cost
1110 Total Character Cost
150+ Disadvantages
15 Distinctive Features: Super Saiya-jin Mode (Gold hair, extremely
obvious Ki)
15 DNPC: Bulma (normal) 11-
15 Physical Limitation: All Aid effects lost if reduced to negative
Stun
Psychological Limitation:
10 Delights of being 'evil' (C, M)
15 Obsessed with being the best (C, S)
20 Overconfident (an immense amount of pride) (VC, S)
15 Vengeful (C, S)
20 Reputation: Saiyan Prince and powerful fighter, Ext 14-
5 Rivalry: Son Goku
830 Experience
1110 Total Disadvantage Points
Designers Notes:
Vegita has a very colorful and violent history. Prince of the Saiyajins,
Vegita's father is King Vegita (who ruled the planet Vegita, home of the
Saiyajins). Yes, his name is a pun, being taken from 'vegetable'. After
Freezer annihilated the planet Vegita (and virtually the whole race),
Prince Vegita became a mercenary, conquering worlds for Freezer. He came
to Earth about a year after the battle between Son Goku, Piccolo and
Raditz. Accompanied by Nappa Vegita battled the newly revived Son Goku to
a standstill, before escaping in his spaceship.
Recovering from his injuries, Vegita then learned that Freezer was looking
for a series of dragonballs on the planet Namek (Freezer wanted to wish
for immortality). Flying there, Vegita decided to beat Freezer to the
punch and claim the balls for himself. As luck would have it, he was
pursued by Son Goku, Son Gohan and Kulilin.
While on the planet, Vegita slaughters several of Freezer henchmen, is
badly wounded (but recovers), attempts to battle members of Freezer;s
5-man Ginyu team, and otherwise proves that he is one of the nastiest
fighters in the universe. Finally, he, Goku, Piccolo and the rest square
off against Freezer for the final showdown. The resulting battle (one of
the longest in the manga) ended in Vegita and Kulilin getting killed and
the planet destroyed. Vegita, revived with a wish from the Namek
dragonballs, then returned to Earth with the rest of the Z fighters. Once
there he dedicated himself to trying to beat Son Goku. He also became
embroiled in the fight with Dr. Gero and his cyborgs, married Bulma, sired
a son (Trunks) and helped fight Cell.
Vegita ends up helping Goku destroy Majin Buu as well, but not after being
possessed by Madoshi Babidi and destroying a good portion of the local
landscape. He also uses the power of Fusion to join together with Son
Goku and create the *most* powerful character in the series... Vejit. The
less said about this character, the better...
Description:
Vegita isn't very tall, standing about 5'5" or so. He is about the same
height as Bulma and a bit shorter than Son Goku. He has a muscular build,
however and is very strong. Vegita's black hair is worn sweeping back
from his head, and her has an obvious receding hair line. Vegita dresses
in casual - Western - clothing, unless he needs to fight, in which case he
dons a dark blue bodysuit, white boots and gloves and his white body
armor.
Powers Notes:
As a Saiyajin Vegita can achieve the high-energy state known as 'Super
Saiyajin'. This state is marked by his hair turning bright golden yellow
and spiky, and his ki manifesting as a visible aura. His ki reaches such
high levels that *anyone* with any amount of 'Detect Ki' should be able to
pick him up. Super Saiyajin mode is marked by a massive increase in the
character's strength, agility, durability and so on. Note that the SSJ
Aid also feeds into the Multipower pool and the slots, boosting Vegita's
ki blasts as well! SSJ 2 can pump Vegita's fighting ability to
astronomical levels, but has one major drawback. One's muscles become so
pumped with energy, that the Sayajin's agility is shot and his ability to
move and fight is effectively eliminated.
Vegita's main powers is his massively powerful ki attacks. He used to be
able to assume were-monkey form, but lost his tail in the fight with Goku
on Earth. He is a powerful hand-to-hand fighter and can hold his own
versus almost anyone.
Vegita has several ki blasts, which are detailed as follows:
Big Bang Attack: This is a devastating blast of energy that
totally vaporizes Android #19. It is also called the "Super Vegita Big
Bang Attack". (It is also this writer's favorite name for an attack in
the series)
Galick-Ho: Vegita's answer to the Kamehameha, it is fired in
virtually the same fashion.
Ki Blast: A standard (but very powerful) ki blast.
Kienzan: The energy cutting disk first used by Kulilian.
Renzoku Energy Dan: Vegita is a master of this attack. He can
fire off massive numbers of energy bolts in a very short period of time,
crushing an opponent and the surrounding area.
Vegita also has typical DBZ powers of ki blast defelction, flight,
increased movement and ki sense. in the video games, heseems to have
sevreal other attacks. One of these is called "Final Flash" and looks to
be an attack similar to the Big Bang Attack. Vegita also wears armor over
his torso (and is the only character to regularly do so).
Disadvantages Notes:
Vegita's most noteworthy trait is his extreme arrogance. He is obsessed
with being the best and most powerful fighter. He spars with Son Goku in
an never-ending quest to become better than Goku and thus proclaim himself
the most powerful warrior in the universe. This sense of pride and vanity
has been his downfall several times. Often, Vegita will mouth off about
how he is going to destroy an enemy, only to get pounded himself. This
also means that Vegita cannot allow himself to loose, especially in front
of others. He will not retreat or surrender, even in the face of
overwhelming odds. Naturally, this often means that Vegita will end up
embroiled in something he cannot handle. Probably the best example of
Vegita's arrogance is his allowing Cell to swallow Android #18. By doing
this, Cell was able to increase his prowess and fighting power. Vegita
let him do it in order to have a more worthy opponent. Cell then beat
Vegita into a bloody mess and went on to nearly destroy the world.
Vegita, despite all of his faults, really does care for his family (Bulma
and Trunks). Cell's killing of Trunks enabled Vegita to call upon some
desperately needed energy, while Son Goku found that the evil Vegita from
the Majin Buu episodes wasn't so callous about destroying the Earth (and
thus, his wife) as he was pretending to be.
As a Super-Saiyajin, Vegita's hair turns bright gold and his ki skyrockets
to phenomenal levels. He can be easily detected this way, which is not
always to his advantage. As with all Super-Saiyajins, being knocked out
removes *all* benefits of his Aid power, instantly.
(Vegita created by Akira Toriyama, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #132
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