Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 137
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:35 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #137
champ-l-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 137
In this issue:
Re: How to explode
Re: Upcoming Champions books
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
New PBeMs
Re: How to explode
Re: How to explode
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Upcoming Champions books
Re: Upcoming Champions books
Re: Tolkien Characters
Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Upcoming Champions books
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Tolkien Characters
Re: Upcoming Champions books
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Tolkien Characters
Re: Tolkien Characters
Aragorn: Character
Arwen:Character
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:13:34 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: How to explode
Either take EB, No Range, Explosion with a) Hole in the Middle or b) a
Teleport linked to it
Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Lund <klund@technologist.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 9:07 PM
Subject: How to explode
>I'm designing a character that has an "explosive" personality. Well, ok,
>what I mean is if he impacts with something going at a minimum of
>20" velocity I want to fire off an Energy Blast Explosion, No Range. Now
>Damage Shield doesn't look quite right, nor does Trigger. Do I simply
>need to combine one of these with some Adv or Lim, or is there some
>completely other way to do it?
>
>Let's go further: He also needs to explode if he's smashed under great
>weight, even if he isn't travelling fast. Is there a way to make the whole
>thing work with one power and some Advs/Lims?
>
>Thanks,
>Kirk
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:49:08 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
||I can't speak for Tarot, but Gestalt is _anything_ but generic, and I've
|always thought Strike Force had enough clever bits and odd corners to be
|distinctive. Of course, I think that's true of the New Millenium setting
too.
FWIW, one of the players in my cgroup used to be in the original Gestalt
campaign, and he's always spoken highly of it. And there are several files
related to Gestalt on the Red October website, at
http://www.mactyre.net/october
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:41:37 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
>> Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
>> having tried:
>> Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
>> roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
>> side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
>> as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
>> chance to act per segment.)
>> So, what do you all think?
>>
>I've used this for awhile in my FH game, except that I use a d6 (since SPD
>above 4 is very rare). It really does not matter what size die you use,
>except that it be higher than the highest current SPD. A few suggestions
>that we use:
I have a really really big problem with this idea: A very unlucky person or
someone with a 4 speed has a good chance of not moving EVER in a turn. I
dont know about you but this would make me exceedingly upset with the GM,
the system, and the dice. Upset enough to not play in that group ever again.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:18:13 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: New PBeMs
Watch out, loaded question:
Who has plans for a PBeM/PBICQ in the near future? If there's one right
now, where can I get info?
SuperMiller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:05:59 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: How to explode
>
>What does teleport have to do with the power? just buy it with personal
>immunity. And you still haven't dealt with the automatic trigger effects.
TP really has nothing to do with it, it's for effect like Grenade of the
Strangers... that way you can blast and reintegrate at a different place,
like a certain enchanter named... Tim.
Miller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:11:56 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: How to explode
have you considered the effect of knockback
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:47:16 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
> What bugs me more, no pun intended, are newscasters who deride
> programmers of the late 1960s and 1970s for beign shortsighted, lazy or
> just plain stupid.
>
> <soapbox>
[large cut]
> </soapbox>
Yeah, whatever. I know lazy when I see it. Lazy.
:)
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:20:20 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books
At 04:49 PM 1/14/1999 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>
>FWIW, one of the players in my cgroup used to be in the original Gestalt
>campaign, and he's always spoken highly of it. And there are several files
>related to Gestalt on the Red October website, at
>http://www.mactyre.net/october
I believe you, but I've just returned from the RO site, and I couldn't
tell, based on the file name and [where available] descriptions *which*
files had anything to do with the Gestalt setting...with the result that I
still know nothing about the campaign.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:06:51 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>
>||I can't speak for Tarot, but Gestalt is _anything_ but generic, and I've
>|always thought Strike Force had enough clever bits and odd corners to be
>|distinctive. Of course, I think that's true of the New Millenium setting
>too.
>
>FWIW, one of the players in my cgroup used to be in the original Gestalt
>campaign, and he's always spoken highly of it. And there are several files
>related to Gestalt on the Red October website, at
>http://www.mactyre.net/october
Which of the originals? There have been three Gestalt campaigns: the New
Columbians, the Hollywood Knights (which I was in) and, hurm, I've done a
blank on the third one suddenly.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:33:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
> In all the repositories of Hero Characters out there, has anyone
> ever done all the characters from "The Lord of the Rings"
> or "The Silmarillion"?
Hmmm... not yet. I was thinking about doing the LOTR characters. I even
did some notes about Ringwraths. How do people feel about being able to
cause damage with your PRE? I mean, the Ringwraiths tended to cause
'normals' to simply collapse and loose the will to fight (and seemingly -
live). I do know that the LOTRs characters shouldn't be all that
expensive. Perhaps in the 50+50 or 75+75 range.
If anyone does these, let me know, I'd love to put them on my site.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:51:50 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
> >Has anyone else run into attempted abuses of this rule interpretation?
> >Does everyone agree that these are abusive? Has there been a definitive
> >ruling on whether powers in an EC can be used together this way? (I
> >would say, intuitively, "Yes," because that explains why to put
> >attack-oriented powers in an EC rather than an MP.)
>
> Can't be of any help, since I've always operated on the theory that unless
> Linked, you can't fire two attacks at once.
As have I, but we have to realize that this is now considered
a house rule, not "by the book." : (
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:40:44 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
> >1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's,
> >1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be
> >different.
>
> These people do/did show up. I remember hearing this sort of thing for 1980
> and 1990. Of course, it was not as big a deal as 2000, but then it was only
> a decade, not a century.
Interesting. Anyway, I'm not gonna buck popular opinion, though
two straight new years of parties sounds good to me. Instead of calling
the 20th century the only one with only 99 years, just consider that first
one to be a bit short--or to include 1 BC as a shared year or something.
Just a bit of RetConning, nothing new.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:41:54 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books
Anything by Mr. Allston is well worth buying, and Jason Vester's a pretty good
author. As for Gestalt:
Gestalt has been in the works since I started the New Columbians campaign six
years ago. It's a world where nearly all supers were created by an overload in
the human collective unconscious, creating a psionic reaction that either
endowed people with superhuman abilities that meshed well with their
personalities and interests, or created entities out of wholecloth. One of the
first superhuman entities started wearing a superhero outfit, called himself
"America Man" and got lots of publicity. Numerous imitators followed, and thus
a superhero world was born.
The "gestalt" phenomena tends to promote supers who represent archetypes or
champions of certain causes or psychological conditions. There's a long list in
the book of sample gestalts and appropriate powers for them, examples might
include a Gestalt of Strength, a brick who's associated with the concept of the
strongman, looks like a strongman, and invariably gets into situations where he
has to demonstrate his strength, who enjoys demonstrating his strength and
actively promotes the concept of physical prowess to the masses to the point
where he has an actual agenda. Put together a group of gestalts, working toward
a common good but who also have agendas driven by their archetypes, and you can
get some interesting conflicts.
Gestalt is enough like a standard superhero campaign to be recognizable to
comics fans, but it has some really weird edges to it.
Gestalt differs from San Angelo and CNM in that supers are a fairly recent
development, and that there's a lot of them in the world: unlike San Angelo and
CNM, you're dealing with a very crowded superhuman ecology. I try to touch
issues that some other settings don't touch (how does religion view
superhumans, for example). There's a lot of description of prominent local
heroes and world heroes, which I hope will be pilferable to other campaigns
even if the GM ignores the rest of the book. The power level is fairly robust;
a standard campaign is assumed to start at 300-325 points, and the first draft
has a lot of house rules and campaign structure guidelines that's designed to
serve that power level.
Certain comics characters are subsumed into gestalts: battlesuit technology is
pretty weak, magic is non-existent, aliens are rare, and superhuman mutation is
non-existent. The tone of the book is meant to be "adult" (ie. not for kids);
the setting is not going to be for everyone, but I'm hoping there are enough
interesting ideas in it that the book will be worth the money for nearly any
GM.
I'm hoping to finish the first draft soon. It's looking like the finished
product will be in the 325-350 page range, so cuts may be forthcoming (Steve, I
feel your pain!), or it may get divided into two books. Since it looks like
there's a few books ahead of it on the Hero Plus queue, I can't give a solid
publication date, even if I get it finished when I want.
> Message text written by Steve Peterson
> >>There are two campaign books already out for Champions; the Champions: New
> Millennium campaign book and the San Angelo: City of Heroes campaign book.
> Scott Bennie is hard at work on his Gestalt campaign book (which I hope we'll
> see soon!); Aaron Allston is working on his new Strike Force campaign book
> series; and we already have Jason Vester's Tarot campaign book in the editing
> process. So we'll be
> seeing a lot of different campaigns, along with supplements for many of those
>
> campaigns, which means there'll be a lot of choices for Champions fans.<<
>
> If it's not too early, can you maybe give us a sentence or two about each
> of these so we can tell how they are different? San Angelo and New
> MIllennium are both fairly "generic" settings, so if we get any more of
> those, it seems like it would be overkill. Hopefully these other 3
> campaign books you mentioned (Gestalt, Strike Force, Tarot) are specialized
> and immediately distinguishable from the 2 current campaign worlds.
>
> >>Dave Mattingly is working on the Champions genre book right now<<
>
> I am looking forward to this more than I have any other Hero System book I
> can remember.
BTW, what have you heard about the Champs genre book? I've heard next to
nothing about it. What'll be in it?
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:54:24 -0800
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
>I have a really really big problem with this idea: A very unlucky person or
>someone with a 4 speed has a good chance of not moving EVER in a turn. I
>dont know about you but this would make me exceedingly upset with the GM,
>the system, and the dice. Upset enough to not play in that group ever again.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a pure math note these are the chances
Speed % Chance of not going at all in 1 turn
1 35.2%
2 11.21%
3 3.1671%
4 0.7707%
5 0.155239%
6 0.024414%
7 0.002738%
And from there the odds go down hill really fast.
I wouldn't call 0.7707% a really good chance, but neither would I want to
be there when it does happen (and it will, 2 games ago one of my players
missed an 11- to hit roll 5 times straight which is a 0.741577% chance)
And on a non math note my problem isn't with haymakers it's with players
acting in certain ways because of how the game mechanics work instead of
acting due to character reasons.
Consider a speed 5 character against some speed 3 thugs, under the speed
chart the speed 5 character can throw all their levels into dcv and dodge
on 3, make an all out attack on 5 knowing that they will go first on 8,
dodge with levels on dcv in 8 make another all out attack in 10 and then
dodge again in 12, "heck I'll sweep in 10, so what if I'm at 1/2 dcv, I go
first in 12 after all"
Now consider a speed 5 character against some speed 3 thugs when they have
to roll for their actions each turn. The only thing the speed 5 character
can be sure of is that on any given segment each thug has a 25% chance to
act, all OCV or all DCV level allocations become less viable, and
maneuvering to reduce the number of attackers becomes real attractive. (All
this comes out of a tendency of many of the combats that I've seen, they
tend to turn into "battle ship duels" with characters staying mostly
immoble and lobbing shots at one another until someone falls over. This
tendancy goes against how combat plays out in both "the real world" and in
comics, and so I'm looking for ways to change this, thus the speed idea.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:47:55 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
>
>> >Has anyone else run into attempted abuses of this rule interpretation?
>> >Does everyone agree that these are abusive? Has there been a definitive
>> >ruling on whether powers in an EC can be used together this way? (I
>> >would say, intuitively, "Yes," because that explains why to put
>> >attack-oriented powers in an EC rather than an MP.)
>>
>> Can't be of any help, since I've always operated on the theory that unless
>> Linked, you can't fire two attacks at once.
>
> As have I, but we have to realize that this is now considered
>a house rule, not "by the book." : (
Actually, given the conflicting statements that have come out, until we see
Fifth Edition (or Steve Long gives us a hint) no one seems to know what _is_
by the book.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:26:52 -0600
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
> From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> To: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>
> >> Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
> >> having tried:
> >> Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each
combatint
> >> roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As
a
> >> side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a
turn
> >> as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
> >> chance to act per segment.)
> >> So, what do you all think?
> >>
> >I've used this for awhile in my FH game, except that I use a d6 (since
SPD
> >above 4 is very rare). It really does not matter what size die you use,
> >except that it be higher than the highest current SPD. A few
suggestions
> >that we use:
>
> I have a really really big problem with this idea: A very unlucky person
or
> someone with a 4 speed has a good chance of not moving EVER in a turn. I
> dont know about you but this would make me exceedingly upset with the GM,
> the system, and the dice. Upset enough to not play in that group ever
again.
>
I think you (and Steve Long) got this system confused with the original
Adventurer's Club article. In that article, everyone used a d12. They got
to move if they rolled one of their phases on the d12. So a 4 SPD got to
move if he rolled a 3,6,9,12. Likewise, the 3 SPD goes on rolls 4,8,12.
If you use this system, then you are right--a guy can get nailed several
ways. I didn't care for it for the same reason.
However, that is not what is proposed--"if they roll their Speed or less
they get an action" (see above). A 3 SPD goes on a 1,2,3 (whatever the die
used). A 4 SPD goes on a 1,2,3,4. Now the only way the 4 SPD guys gets
nailed is if he personally rolls poorly. That is why I suggested that only
the GM roll, then apply the same roll to everyone. Now it is impossible
for a high SPD to get nailed.
Statistically, this works out the same as the SPD chart--on Average. I
played this way for awhile. However, it is too easy to roll a string of
4's and nail the lower SPD characters. Next we tried giving everyone a +1
SPD, only for the die roll. This made the lower SPD's get more actions per
turn (relative to what they used to get compared to SPD 4), but personally
I don't mind that in a heroic game. It makes SPD 2 viable. However, we
still had some stilted combats with strings of 5's rolled, and it seemed
wrong somehow.
Thus my suggestion to give +1 to anyone who does not get an action this
round. This increases the relative worth of the low SPDs just like giving
everyone a +1, but it isn't as cumbersome--if you get to act, it is not an
issue--if your do not, then you have nothing to do but remember the +1.
Voila, no chance of the high SPD characters acting 4 or 5 times before
anyone else. (And no chance that the GM will roll a long string of 5's or
6's with nothing happening.)
Finally, all of this put together means that you can end the turn on a roll
of 1. This makes it much easier to track long running effects, and you do
not have to keep up with how many times each character has gone. (As a
side effect, it makes people a little less sanguine about END and
STUN--maybe they will get a REC soon or maybe they won't.)
BTW, there are all kinds of pacing benefits to this system, but only if you
want a more reactive game: "Hey, I get to act--I'd better turn on my
Shield Spell. No telling when I'll get to go again." It's not for
everyone, but it does seem to make the action flow more like certain
Fantasy stories.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:05:40 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase
>>Actually, given the conflicting statements that have come out, until we see
>>Fifth Edition (or Steve Long gives us a hint) no one seems to know what _is_
>>by the book.
>
>What conflicting statements? I asked SteveP awhile ago, got an answer
>for 5th, and got no firm answer for whether "two powers in an EC can't
>be linked to go off together" applied. Was there another, different
>response?
Over time, Steve, George and Bruce have given rather varied answers on the
topic. Me, I'll consider it authoritative when I get told it's definitely
going into Fifth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:41:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel P. Pawtowski" <dpawtows@acm.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
> Consider a speed 5 character against some speed 3 thugs, under the speed
> chart the speed 5 character can throw all their levels into dcv and dodge
<snip>
I've occasionally dealt with this by re-assigning the phases at which
thugs act on. In a Viper 5-team, for example, one guy may go on 3, 6,
and 9. His buddy goes on 2,5, and 8. Another goes on 4, 7, and 10.
Somebody else picked 3, 7, and 11. Etc.
Alternately, the book legal way: Many of the write-ups on agents
say that they are trained to hold actions frequently. Have half fire
on their SPD&dex, the other half sprinkle their fire later on.
This was actually the SFX of the "re-assigned phases" method, I referred
to it as "These guys are all trained to not move in an identical,
predictable pattern".
Daniel Pawtowski
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:01:35 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
>Consider a speed 5 character against some speed 3 thugs, under the speed
>chart the speed 5 character can throw all their levels into dcv and dodge
>on 3, make an all out attack on 5 knowing that they will go first on 8,
>dodge with levels on dcv in 8 make another all out attack in 10 and then
>dodge again in 12, "heck I'll sweep in 10, so what if I'm at 1/2 dcv, I go
>first in 12 after all"
Personally, I consider this as much a bug as feature, since it abstracts
some real world tactical decisions (particularly in melee) involving
judgement that there's no other way to approximate in the game. I don't
think it's possible to play a properly varied martial artist without playing
phasing games, for example.
Really, all you have to remember is that two can play; if your thugs don't
all attack immediately when they can, and save across a phase or two, this
becomes much trickier. Dumb gangs that just attack straight out are
predictable and should be run around by higher speed characters who, after
all, think faster on their feet.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:39:30 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters
>> In all the repositories of Hero Characters out there, has anyone
>> ever done all the characters from "The Lord of the Rings"
>> or "The Silmarillion"?
>
>Hmmm... not yet. I was thinking about doing the LOTR characters. I even
>did some notes about Ringwraths. How do people feel about being able to
>cause damage with your PRE? I mean, the Ringwraiths tended to cause
>'normals' to simply collapse and loose the will to fight (and seemingly -
>live). I do know that the LOTRs characters shouldn't be all that
>expensive. Perhaps in the 50+50 or 75+75 range.
>
>If anyone does these, let me know, I'd love to put them on my site.
I asked because I intend to do them. I worked out Aragorn today. I'm
going alphabetically (Arwen next), so 'Nazgul' is a way down the track.
My Aragorn was 483 points, nearly all in skills. That did include Anduril,
however. I'm guessing he's on the high side for most mortal characters,
though Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn will also rake in the points.
When I'm finished, I'll be putting them on my site.
Would people be interested in seeing these? Should I release them
one at a time or several together?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:38:32 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books
>From: sbennie@dowco.com (Scott Bennie)
>>Gestalt has been in the works since I started
>> the New Columbians campaign six years
>> ago. It's a world where nearly all supers
>> were created by an overload in the human
>> collective unconscious, creating a psionic
>> reaction that either endowed people with
>> superhuman abilities that meshed well with
>> their personalities and interests, or created
>> entities out of wholecloth.
That's too wild--a portion of the PBeM CHAMPIONS world I'm participating
in, the VC Universe postulates somthing very similar--that certain
heroes are endowed with abilities by the gather will of a people.....I
used this primarily to explain the 'flagsuit' phenomenon....
Sounds like there might be some material I can use in your book, Scott
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and
the damned were smarter than this crowd."
--Evan Dorkin, DORK #2
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:22:53 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
>Consider a speed 5 character against some speed 3 thugs, under the speed
>chart the speed 5 character can throw all their levels into dcv and dodge
>on 3, make an all out attack on 5 knowing that they will go first on 8,
>dodge with levels on dcv in 8 make another all out attack in 10 and then
>dodge again in 12, "heck I'll sweep in 10, so what if I'm at 1/2 dcv, I go
>first in 12 after all"
But isnt that realistic? YOu are slower than this guy so you have to stall
and wait for an opening, striking fast when you can! right? thats how it
works in real life too.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:26:21 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters
At 11:25 PM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>My Aragorn was 483 points, nearly all in skills. That did include Anduril,
>>however. I'm guessing he's on the high side for most mortal characters,
>>though Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn will also rake in the points.
>
>I dont even want to think of how powerful those will be, especially
>Celeborn... "hi, Ive been alive since the beginning of time, and have a
>ring of power... and you are?"
I find it amusing that ICE listed Osse and Uinen (two maia that serve
the Vala Ulmo and occasionally interfere in mortal affairs) as about three
times
more powerful -each- than Sauron. I won't be using ICE's stats for
these characters.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:18:25 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters
At 11:33 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>> In all the repositories of Hero Characters out there, has anyone
>> ever done all the characters from "The Lord of the Rings"
>> or "The Silmarillion"?
>
>Hmmm... not yet. I was thinking about doing the LOTR characters. I even
>did some notes about Ringwraths. How do people feel about being able to
>cause damage with your PRE? I mean, the Ringwraiths tended to cause
>'normals' to simply collapse and loose the will to fight (and seemingly -
>live). I do know that the LOTRs characters shouldn't be all that
>expensive. Perhaps in the 50+50 or 75+75 range.
>
>If anyone does these, let me know, I'd love to put them on my site.
Id put Aragorn above that, just cause he was alive for centuries. And of
Course Gandalf who used about 3% of his full power until he fought the
Nazgul. The Lord of the RIngs has a lot of spiritual damage, it was
metaphoric in some senses, so that the presence of the evil of the
RingWraiths corrupted the soul and withered it in mortals around them.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:17:25 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Aragorn: Character
ARAGORN
18 STR 8
14 DEX 12
18 CON 16
16 BODY 12
16 INT 6
23 EGO 26
23 PRE 13
8 COM -1
12 PD 8
10 ED 6
5 SPD 26
20 REC 24
60 END 12
75 STUN 41
Characteristics Cost: 209
4 WF,Common Melee,Common Missile
30 3 Levels,all skills (Figured in below)
32 4 Levels,all combat
3 Concealment 15-
3 High Society 17-
3 Mimicry 14-
9 Navigation 17-
3 Oratory 17-
3 Riding 15-
5 Shadowing 15-
5 Stealth 16-
7 Survival 16-
9 Tactics 18-
7 Tracking 17-
1 TF,Ships
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Westron,native,literacy
3 Lang: Numenorean,fluent w/accent,literacy
3 Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy
3 Lang: Quenya,fluent w/accent,literacy
2 Lang: Harad,fluent conversation,literacy
3 AK: Eriador 15-
3 AK: Gondor 15-
3 KS: Dunadan History 15-
3 KS: Elven History 15-
3 KS: Hidden Councils of the Wise 15-
5 KS: Herb Lore 17-
20 6D6 Healing,"Healing Hands", Gradual
3 Bump Of Direction
7 14- Combat Sense
5 Defense Maneuver
10 Head of State
24 Package,"Anduril",OAF,unbreakable,extremely hard 4
(15) 3D6 Killing Attack HTH,STR Min 13 4
(4) 5 Levels
(5) +2 Detect,"Orcs and other Dark Creatures",make into sense,
Desc: Glowing Blade, Ranged
Powers Cost: 228
Total Cost: 437
Base Points: 75
10 Distinctive Features,"Dunadan",concealable,minor
10 Hunted,"Sauron's Minions",as powerful,harsh,appear 8
5 Watched,"The Wise",as powerful,harsh,appear 8
10 Psychological Limitation,"Driven to Reunite Kingdom",
uncommon,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Love for Arwen",uncommon,total
20 Psychological Limitation,"Must Protect The Weak",common,
total
5 Reputation,"Drifter",occur 8
15 Secret ID,"Isildur's Heir"
272 Feel Foul, Seem Fair Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 362
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 437
Aragorn is one of the central characters of J.R.R. Tolkien's
"The Lord of the Rings". He is the ranger who guides the
tale's main characters to the secret elven valley of Rivendell.
There, he is revealed as the heir to the throne of two ancient
kingdoms, one fallen, and one without a king for over a thousand
years.
His name is Aragorn, son or Arathorn, but in his very long life
he has masqueraded as many men, including the Gondorian
hero Thorongil and the Eriadoran ranger Strider.
Since the fall of the kingdom of Arthedain, the last heirs of Isildur's
line have been raised in secret in Rivendell until they could one
day reunite their kingdom and destroy the rule of Sauron, the
Dark Lord. Aragorn has a second reason to want this: he is
betrothed to the daughter of the elf-lord, Elrond. Elrond will
not let his daughter marry any mortal of lesser rank than the king
of both Gondor and Arnor.
Aragorn is unique in another way. In him are united the bloodlines
not only all three of the Three Houses of Men, but of all three of the
great peoples of the Elves, as well as that of the Maiar.
Born in Rivendell in Third Age 2931, Aragorn entered the service
of the Ruling Steward of Gondor in 2968. In 2980, he led a small
force of Gondorians into the harbor of Umbar and burned most
of the Umbarean fleet, delaying the onslaught of Umbar's ships
for nearly forty years.
In 3019, he became part of the Fellowship of the Ring. In Rivendell,
the elven smiths reforged the sword Narsil that had belonged to his
distant ancestor Elendil, which Elendil had shattered destroying
Sauron's material form. Narsil was renamed Anduril (Flame of the
West). During that same year he fought at the Battle of Helm's Deep,
captured the Umbarean fleet at Pelargir and routed the enemy at the
Pelennor Fields.
He was crowned king of the Reunited Kingdom in the same year,
taking the name Elessar Telcontar. He married Arwen the next year
and had a son and several daughters.He died peacefully in Fourth Age
120, at the age of 208.
NOTES:
Aragorn is an epic hero, but nothing in Tolkien's stories makes him
superheroic. Because of this, I've endeavored to keep his characteristics
mostly within normal limits. Aragorn seemed extremely competent,
both in battle and out, hence the many levels and skill levels.
The characteristics are admittedly my best guess. The Comeliness
is based on Sam's reaction to Aragorn as Strider in Bree.
Most of the skills are related to his long labors as a ranger in Eriador,
though a few are related to his fostering in Rivendell.
The Healing power is not well described, and appears to require rare
herbs, at least in some cases. But "The Hands of the King are
the hands of a healer, and thus ye shall know him", so I gave Aragorn
the ability to cure serious injuries. He never shows this ability prior to
the battle of Pelennor Fields, so it is possible that Aragorn does not
gain this ability prior to becoming king in fact. That would make a certain
amount of sense. Kings are priests in Gondorian society, the only
ones able to ascend the holy mountain or pronounce the name of the
Creator.
The Disadvantages seem fairly obvious, with the possible exception
of his distinctive features and his reputation. Dunadan are very tall
(Aragorn is something like 6'7") and relatively rare in Eriador, where
he spent most of his time. His reputation as a drifter is in his most
common guise, that of Strider the ranger. He was mistrusted in
places like Bree.
The Head of State perk makes sense even prior to 3019, because he
is recognized by the rangers as Isildur's Heir and the 16th Chieftan of
the Rangers. Any of the rangers or the elf-lords would treat him as king
in fact.
The languages are a guess. Westron is the lingua franca of both
Gondor and Arnor. As the last heir of Elendil and Isildur, it makes
sense that Aragorn would know the ancestral tongue, Numenorean.
As a ward of Elrond's, it seems impossible that he would not know
both Sindar and Quenya. The Harad is just a guess, but since he
spent so much time in Harondor, Harad and Umbar as Thorongil,
it seems to make sense.
Finally, Bump of Direction, Combat Sense and Defense Maneuver
are admittedly guesses. As I noted above, Aragorn is thoroughly
competent in battle, and seemed equally so in the dark depths of
Moria. These talents seemed to fit him well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:16:00 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Arwen:Character
13 STR 3
18 DEX 24
13 CON 6
13 BODY 6
18 INT 8
23 EGO 26
28 PRE 18
36 COM 13
5 PD 2
3 ED 0
4 SPD 12
9 REC 6
30 END 2
32 STUN 5
Characteristics Cost: 131
6 Life Support,immune to disease,immune to aging
6 +2 Enhanced Perception,with all senses
5 Ultraviolet Vision
3 Ultrasonic Hearing
4 WF,Common Melee,Common Missile
8 1 Levels,all combat
10 1 Levels,all skills (figured in below)
2 1 Rng Levels: Bows,tight group
3 Conversation 16-
7 High Society 18-
17 Paramedic 21-
9 Riding 17-
1 Lang: Quenya,native,literacy
6 Lang: Sindarin,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Numenorean,fluent w/accent,literacy
5 Lang: Westron,native accent,literacy
3 KS: Elven History 14-
3 KS: Dunadan History 14-
10 KS: Herbs and Healing Lore 21-
5 AK: Rivendell and Lorien 16-
11 20- Contact: Elrond
37 Variable Power Pool (30),only change in given circ,
restricted type of powers,"Healing Powers"
Powers Cost: 165
Total Cost: 296
Base Points: 75
20 Distinctive Features,"Elf Lord",concealable,extreme
5 Watched,"Elrond",more powerful,mild,appear 8
10 Psychological Limitation,"Love of Aragorn",uncommon,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Reclusive",common,strong
10 Public ID,"Elrond's Daughter (or Queen of Reunited Kingdom)"
161 Evenstar Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 221
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 296
Arwen is the daughter of Elrond and Celebrian, and is therefore
of the most noble lineage of elves in Middle Earth. She is destined
to be the fourth and last elf-maid to marry a mortal. Like her future
husband, she is descended from Maia, elf and man (Aragorn is
directly descended from her uncle, Elros). She dwelled in Imladris
(Rivendell) and Lorien since the dawn of the Third Age (over three
thousand years) before falling in love with Aragorn.
Eventually, Arwen marries Aragorn and makes the decision not to
follow her father over the sea to the west, but makes the decision to
remain with Aragorn and become mortal. She dies one year after
he does and is buried at Cerin Amroth in Lorien.
Arwen (the name means "Royal-Maiden") is said to be supremely
beautiful, recalling the beauty of her ancestor, Luthien, the first elf-
maid to marry a mortal. Because she is fated to be last such beauty
of her race in Middle-Earth, she is surnamed Undomiel, or Evenstar.
NOTES:
Little beside her beauty is explicitly stated about Arwen, who makes only
one appearance in the novels. Some things are known: her lineage and
great age, and the fact that she is said to be wise and compassionate.
Given these things, I have decided to make her a healer. Hence, the VPP
and appropriate skills.
I've given Arwen some fundamental weapons skills because she is a noble
elf, at least partially descended from the Noldo. Her brothers Elladan and
Elrohir are said to be great captains, so I reason that she should have
at least enough knowledge to acquit herself well.
Her high Presence and Ego I see as part and parcel of her lineage. It might
have been reasonable to giver her Mental Defense as well. I didn't simply
because such magic is unheard of except for the Power of the One Ring, and
all the elven lords scrupulously avoid that. Her high Comeliness I think is
reasonable for the most beautiful being in more than six thousand years.
The 'reclusive' disadvantage I've given her simply because she does
seem absent in at least two key scenes, though this may be more because
Elrond wants her away from Aragorn. I've given her skill in Numenorean and
Dunadan history simply because she is in love with Aragorn, and I think
she would have studied it, if she didn't know it already.
A 3,000 year-old elf (considered young!) would probably have many more
skills and much more knowledge than this, but I think these are the ones
that would define her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #137
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Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:11 PM