From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:07 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #147 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Tuesday, January 19 1999        Volume 01 : Number 147 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: More Triggered Questions 
    Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers 
    Re: superleap attacks 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: superleap attacks 
    Re: Camp Councilor 
    Star Maps 
    Loser Heroes 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
    Character: Bilbo Baggins 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
    Character: Boromir 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: superleap attacks 
    Re: Camp Councilor 
    Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers 
    Re: Star Maps 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
    Re: Camp Councilor 
    Re: Loser Heroes 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:45:30 PST 
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999  Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> wrote: 
>cc: Hero List <hero-l@sysabend.org> 
>Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
> 
> 
>> Considering that evening news consistently gets any tech or science  
story 
>> messed up, this isn't a surprise. I have yet to see a single program  
that 
>> can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint:  
It 
>> isn't Dec 31, 1999.) 
> 
>	Er, sorry.  You lose this argument.  Common Sense (No Such Animal, 
>I know, but anyway) says that those first two digets are what matters. 
>There are just too few voices out there trying to base things on a 
>medieval Catholic calendar, which started on 1 instead of 0. 
> 
>	Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that 
>1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's, 
>1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be 
>different. 
> 
 
They do.  I know many of these people.  I am one of them.  A decade is  
10 years.  The calendar started with day 1, year 1.  Therefore, the  
second decade CE started on the first day of the year 11.  It's called  
math.  Look into it. 
 
Jesse Thomas 
 
haerandir@hotmail.com 
 
 
 
 
______________________________________________________ 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:29:46 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: More Triggered Questions 
 
At 11:56 AM 1/18/99 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote: 
>If I cast a Triggered power on something 3 times (for instance), and set 
>them all to go off with the same trigger (for instance, when I say 
>"Shazam!"), will they all go off on the same phase? Doesn't this interfere 
>with the "one attack per phase" rule? 
 
   They will, and it doesn't.  The "one attack per Phase" rule applies when 
you're setting the powers up, not when they go off. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:15:00 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers 
 
At 03:44 PM 1/18/1999 -0600, Curt Hicks wrote: 
>> Hmmm...yes, you're quite right.  Unless we're talking about a "mystery 
>> powers" game, the *player* can't help but know what kind of damage his 
>> character's attack can be expected to dish out.  But you could easily 
>> roleplay situations where the character didn't know the parameters of his 
>> own abilities.   
>>  
>The *player* can't help but know, but the *character* doesn't know. 
>This might actually give some benefit to playing out 'lab testing' the 
>use of your powers.  You have some justification for the *character* 
>knowing that she has a more 'lethal' attack.  Otherwise, the character 
>might only know that her Meson blast put a 2" hole in the brick wall. 
>The thing is, you'd probably be testing your powers against inanimate 
>objects and only know how it works against living creatures after much 
>experience.  Unless the character is ruthless enough to gratuitously blast 
>stuff. 
 
Uh, yeah. I was agreeing with you there.  The player would know but the 
character frequently would not.  It makes sense. 
 
Sometimes I really can't figure out how I'm being unclear... 
 
>> This is in fact very appropriate for the follow up to many character origin 
>> stories.  Many campaigns skip from "lab accident" (background history) to 
>> "full-fledged costumed superhero with a rep and two hunteds" (first game), 
>> but for those who roleplay the Year One stuff, there's no reason most 
>> heroes *should* know exactly what they're capable of at that point. 
>>  
>I'm actually in an emerging powers game right now, and trying 
>to roleplay this.  Vortex can 'dematerialize' things and then  
>'re-materialize' them somewhere else.  It took several sessions before he 
>used the power on a living being, a dog, and longer before he used it on  
>a person.  And this was after 'piping' computers and other electronic 
>equipment and the like and then running diagnostic tests on them to see 
>if they'd been affected in any way.  
 
Yep, that's the way to do it. 
 
Damon 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:33:43 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: superleap attacks 
 
At 11:38 AM 1/18/99 -0600, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote: 
>At 06:21 AM 1/18/1999 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>>   Here's an alternate method that I just thought of: 
>>   Buy Superleap, with the +1/4 Advantage Bouncable.  For each Skill Level 
>>used, the character can strike something in mid-leap and change direction 
>>(somewhat like the way Energy Blasts are Bounced). 
>>   One could even add the Cumulative Advantage to this, and allow the 
>>character to increase his Leaping by the amount of his Superleap with each 
>>Bounce (and there you have Bouncing Boy!). 
>>   It's probably a little tweakish, but it's also probably a good starting 
>>point for finding the "right" way.  :-] 
> 
>Bouncing an Attack is a standard combat modifier (+1 to +3 OCV), applicable 
>to any ranged attack and requiring one Combat Skill Level (applicable to 
>that attack) per bounce.   
 
   That is correct. 
   My suggestion was just to allow a +1/4 Advantage to allow a similar 
thing to be done with Superleap. 
 
>TUMA (p.118-120) gives some optional rules for Ranged Martial Arts. 
> 
>Why not just give the character a Savate manuever or two, built as Ranged, 
>and enough CSLs with the maneuver(s) to allow as many bounces as the 
>character wants.  Three levels, for example, should allow the character to 
>bounce off two opponents before hitting the third (hit actual target, and 
>the only one who will take damage from the attack). 
 
   This is another possibility. 
 
>If the above maneuver could be combined with Sweep, the character could do 
>damage on *each* bounce, affecting all three opponents. 
 
   This type of thing might also be doable for things like when Xena 
strikes or disarms multiple opponents with her chakram. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:09:44 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
Hash: SHA1 
 
"DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
 
DT> Pushing, unusual maneuvers (haymakers, move-throughs, fastball specials), 
DT> one-shot gadgets, ... all of these things have often been used to exceed 
DT> the campaign DC caps of the thirty or so campaigns (ten or so groups of 
DT> people) I've been in.  And some of these groups have included Hero authors, 
DT> advisors and friends of GMD and SP, etc. 
 
And these all have significant inherent limitations which prevent them from 
becoming unbalancing: 
 
Pushing: 10x Endurance cost for all of 2 DCs. 
Haymaker: 1 segment delay and nasty CV penalties. 
Move Through: nasty CV penalties and you eat some of the damage yourself. 
Fastball Special: see Move Through. 
One-shot Gadgets: one shot, use it or lose it. 
 
What is the significant inherent limitation in combining powers to exceed 
campaign guidelines by twice or more? 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: GnuPG v0.9.1 (GNU/Linux) 
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org 
 
iD8DBQE2o81Hgl+vIlSVSNkRAv0oAJ0QPANX25ALbIK7OFG6yZVQLUrZBQCgtuQ+ 
TwWI1Gd9TOiZ8eOXoAqxko8= 
=sS7c 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:02:21 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
>Hash: SHA1 
> 
>"DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
> 
>DT> Pushing, unusual maneuvers (haymakers, move-throughs, fastball specials), 
>DT> one-shot gadgets, ... all of these things have often been used to exceed 
>DT> the campaign DC caps of the thirty or so campaigns (ten or so groups of 
>DT> people) I've been in.  And some of these groups have included Hero authors, 
>DT> advisors and friends of GMD and SP, etc. 
> 
>And these all have significant inherent limitations which prevent them from 
>becoming unbalancing: 
> 
>Pushing: 10x Endurance cost for all of 2 DCs. 
>Haymaker: 1 segment delay and nasty CV penalties. 
>Move Through: nasty CV penalties and you eat some of the damage yourself. 
>Fastball Special: see Move Through. 
>One-shot Gadgets: one shot, use it or lose it. 
> 
>What is the significant inherent limitation in combining powers to exceed 
>campaign guidelines by twice or more? 
 
Well, in the case of Aid, unless you have the long extended fade rate 
version it's that the Aider has to spend one or more phases Aiding the 
target instead of doing something to the opposition himself.  As an example, 
if you have a 6D6 Aid Strength, yes, on the average you'll add d$6 to your 
teammate's Strength based attacks...at the price of tying up a phase doing 
it, and having a 60 point power that you have to keep at least present (i.e. 
not swapped out in a Multipower slot) for the entire time he's using it  On 
the whole, I find that at least as much of a problem as the ones associated 
with Moving manuevers 
 
Now if you find someone has bought an extended fade rate Aid outside of a 
multipower for Strength, it's of course wise to find out what the purpose of 
thatis, but that gets back to the distinction between occasional tactics and 
permanant operating procedures. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:37:03 -0500 
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net> 
Subject: Re: superleap attacks 
 
>Buy Superleap, with the +1/4 Advantage Bouncable.  For each Skill Level 
>used, the character can strike something in mid-leap and change direction 
>(somewhat like the way Energy Blasts are Bounced). 
>   One could even add the Cumulative Advantage to this, and allow the 
>character to increase his Leaping by the amount of his Superleap with each 
>Bounce (and there you have Bouncing Boy!). 
>   It's probably a little tweakish, but it's also probably a good starting 
>point for finding the "right" way.  :-] 
 
 
My bouncy character, The Lord of Leaping, has a multipower with several 
leaping maneuvers in it, including: 
 
   4u 36" Leap No Range Mod 
   4u 10" Leap NRM + Area Effect Line STR 
 
The No Range Mod allows him to land exactly where he wants to, instead of 
rolling to hit the hex. 
 
His Area Effect Line allows him to do multiple leap throughs and leap bys, 
which is quite appropriate for the multiple bounce question, although Any 
Area or Selective Radius might be more appropriate. 
 
 
Dave Mattingly 
http://haymaker.org 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:09:33 -0600 
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net> 
Subject: Re: Camp Councilor 
 
> From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> 
>  
> This made me laugh. 
>  
> ] >There is only one camp: caps are tools GMs use to ensure that nothing 
> ] >unbalances their campaigns.  They should be used during all  
> ] aspects of the 
> ] >game, not just character creation, not just during play. 
>  
> It's attitudes like this that lead to religious wars and ethnic 
cleansing. 
> I'm so far out of this camp that I haven't bothered to comment until just 
> now. In my camp, we laugh at AP maximums. I've never had AP maximums in 
any 
> of my campaigns. The only thing that changes is that the campaigns get a 
> little more dangerous. 
>  
> Mind you, most of the games I've ran have been FH games but even in a 
> supahero genre, you find toadies with one off-balanced power they can 
only 
> use at a full moon with the wind from the south. If you make those 
> limitations count and lean on their weak spots, players stay in line. I 
had 
> a player in my first champs game that [after a dozen sessions or so] had 
a 
> 110pt. multipower with an activation roll and full sideFX. Since his 
> character was demonic in origin, his side effect was a summon that called 
up 
> a couple of his old demonic secret police buddies to come and kill him. 
Once 
> the multi got that big, he was afraid to use it, just in case he blew the 
> roll. 
>  
> It's like I always say, 'If you wanted to be safe, you should have made a 
> cobbler'. 
>  
> Aside from that, nobody in my games ever seems to want a code against 
> killing. 
>  
> Right. That's it. I've buckled up my flame retardant underoos so fire 
away. 
> BRI 
>  
I'ld like to second Brian on this one.  (I left the whole message in, 
because I agree with every word of it.)  Like Brian, I've rarely used any 
kind of definite campaign limits.  Rather, I use a very simple limit:  I 
scrupulously allow NPCs to do anything the PCs can do.  Whenever a player 
asks to do something that I don't particularly want in the game, I just 
say, "Sure, if you are comfortable with the opposition doing that sort of 
thing."  I've been asked about such activity maybe 30 or 40 times in the 
last 5 years.  The players always decide they would just as soon leave 
things the way they are--usually after about 5 second of careful thought 
where they consider just what such activity would do to their beloved 
character. 
 
Steven 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:38:59 -0600 
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com> 
Subject: Star Maps 
 
Okay folks I had forgotten this, it is a week late, but here it is. 
The following url is for a nice 2300 fan in Italy I believe. 
His Warp 98 program generates printable real star maps within a 100ly radius 
of earth I think. 
 
He also has a program there that creates starsystem data. 
http://archiginnasio.dsnet.it/max/warp 
 
I knew I had forgotten something. 
 
 
TV 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:56:37 -0800 
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com> 
Subject: Loser Heroes 
 
Hey All, I was wondering if you could think of some of Marvel's less 
respected heroes. I'm doing something with them I already have a core of 
the Lightning Rods, Frogman, the Osprey (the guy from the old Marvel 
Superheroes Game), and Captain Ultra. I'm looking for guys and girls who 
have never really measured up to the big leagues, characters who were 
made that way on purpose, not just ones you can't stand. However aside 
from the Lightning Rods (formerly Great Lakes Avengers), I don't want 
anyone who already is in a team (like Speedball). Any ideas? The heroes 
introduced on assistant editor's month would be good. I need 
predominately Marvel characters but if they're lame enough I will take 
DC Characters. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:26:44 -0600 
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com> 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
My all time favorite,  Ambush Bug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
TV 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:55:21 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
>From: chadriley01@sprynet.com (Chad Riley) 
 
>> Hey All, I was wondering if you could think of 
>> some of Marvel's less respected heroes.  
 
Silly heroes?  I can think of: 
 
Slapstick (an ill-advised attempt to do a wacky hero book--he was 
basically a cartoon come to life) 
 
The Amazing Spider-Kid (a nerdish Spidey fan in a spider-harnass) 
 
The Walrus (a DEFENDERS villian who had the proportional strength of a 
walrus and keep canting 'Googoogajoob') 
 
Razorback (big tough guy with a boar's head on his head who drove a 
truck) 
 
'Jackrabbit' (a guy who got bit--I'm NOT making this up--by a 
radioactive jackrabbit who lives in the midwest and helped Spidey beat 
up a guy in a water powered suit) 
 
The Rocket Racer (a guy who fights crime from his skateboard....do I 
need to go on?) 
 
I've got others if you want 'em..... 
 
"A trial without witnesses is like the Euro, a monetary system without 
the benefits of paper money or coin--what's the fun of that?" 
- --Harry Shearer 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:53:27 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Character: Bilbo Baggins 
 
BILBO BAGGINS (c. Third Age 3019) 
 
6	STR	-4 
13	DEX	9 
10	CON	0 
6	BODY	-8 
13	INT	3 
13	EGO	6 
10	PRE	0 
10	COM	0 
1	PD	0 
2	ED	0 
1	SPD	-13 
3	REC	0 
20	END	0 
14	STUN	0 
Characteristics Cost: -7 
 
13	1 LVL Shrinking,Always On,0 END Persistent 
10	17 Mental Defense, Only v. Mind Control	 
		 
3	Ambidexterity	 
15	3D6 Luck	 
		 
1	WF,Swords	 
3	Concealment 12-	 
7	Conversation 13-	 
3	High Society 11	- 
3	Navigation 11- 
3	Persuasion 11-	 
		 
3	Traveler	 
2	AK: The Shire 12- 
2	AK: Rivendell 12- 
2	AK: Eriador 12-	 
2	AK: Rhovanion 12-	 
2	AK: Mirkwood 12- 
2	AK: Erebor 12-	 
		 
3	Scholar	 
2	KS: Elves 12-	 
2	KS: Dwarves 12- 
2	KS: Dunedain 12- 
2	KS: Hobbits 12- 
2	KS: Eldar and Dunedain History 12-	 
		 
3	Well-Connected	 
3	13- Contact: Elrond	 
1	11- Contact: Gandalf	 
1	11- Contact: The Rangers	 
1	11- Contact: Dain II	 
		 
3	Linguist	 
1	Lang: Hobbitish,native,literacy	 
2	Lang: Westron,native accent,literacy	 
3	Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy	 
1	Lang: Quenya,literacy	 
 
Powers Cost: 108 
Total Cost: 101 
 
Base Points: 75 
10	Age,60+ 
10	Distinctive Features,"Very Old Hobbit",concealable,minor 
5	Watched,"Elrond",more powerful,noncombat influence,limited 
	 area,mild,appear 8- 
15	Psychological Limitation,"Tired from burden of carrying One 
	 Ring",common,strong 
5	Reputation,"Ringbearer",occur 8- 
 
Disadvantages Total: 45 
Experience Spent: 0 
Total Points: 120 
 
 
Bilbo Baggins is the hero of "The Hobbit".  In "The Lord of the Rings"  
he makes only three brief appearances, as a very old (131 years  
old) hobbit. Possession of the One Ring for sixty years preserved him  
without giving him extra life - "stretching him thin".  The curiosity and  
intelligence that drove him in his earlier adventures is still there, but he 
is aged and tired. 
 
Bilbo found the One Ring when accompanied the company of Thorin II 
Oakenshield over the Misty Mountains to retake Erebor from the  
great dragon Smaug the Golden in the year 2941.  Using the One Ring,  
he was able to help the dwarves defeat the evil worm, but in typical 
fashion, the Ring exacted a price and many of those around him died.   
 
At Gandalf's urging, Bilbo gave the ring to his nephew Frodo in 3001 and 
retired to Imladris (Rivendell) to live out his days.  He was still there  
eighteen years later when the Fellowship of the Ring arrived, hounded  
by the nazgul. Bilbo had spent the intervening years researching the vast  
store of knowledge in Elrond's house, and became a poet and scholar,  
as well as resting some of the hurt that bearing the Ring had done to his  
soul. Early on his stay, he evidently returned to Erebor and Dale, either in  
3001 or 3002.  Thereafter, he remained in Imladris until after the War 
of the Ring. In 3021, Bilbo accompanied Frodo, Gandalf and Galadriel  
over the sea to Valinor with the Last Riding of the Keepers of the Ring. 
 
During the years between 2941 and 3021, Bilbo was the author of 
"The Red Book of Westmarch", which among other things, contains 
the tale of his adventures in Dale and Erebor.  He wrote much poetry 
and scholarly works later relied on as history by the people of the 
Fourth Age, especially his greatest work "Translations from the Elvish", 
tales of the First Age. 
 
NOTES: 
 
There's not much here that really needs explaining.  The large mental 
defense models his hobbitish resistance to the call of the One Ring, 
that drove strong men mad.  Bilbo's resistance to the Ring seems 
to have been greater than Frodo's, as he bore it for sixty years and 
rarely gave in to it.  On the other hand, as Frodo bore it closer to  
Mordor, the Ring became harder to resist, so they could be equal. 
 
Bilbo seems to have been about as lucky as one can get.  Good 
breaks came his way all the time, hence the luck.  Finding the One 
Ring when you are alone and lost in an orc warren, just before it's 
owner decides to kill you is a -long- stretch of luck! 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"All are but parts of one stupendous whole, 
whose body Nature is, and God the soul." 
        Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:07:21 -0500 
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@early.com> 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
>From: chadriley01@sprynet.com (Chad Riley) 
> 
>> Hey All, I was wondering if you could think of 
>> some of Marvel's less respected heroes. 
 
 
I recall a day about ten years back when I bought some old Marvel 
titles from a friend.  As part of the deal, I had to take his "Nobody 
Laughs at Mr.. Fish!" issue of Power Man off his hands as a freebie. 
I didn't want it.  He insisted I take it.  We spent the rest of the 
evening playing a game of him sneaking the issue into my stack of 
purchased comics and me tossing it back out again.  Growing tired of 
this duel of wills, I eventually gave in and took it.  I've regretted 
that ever since. 
 
Len Carpenter 
redlion@early.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:57:34 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Character: Boromir 
 
BOROMIR, SON OF DENETHOR 
 
23	STR	16 
13	DEX	9 
16	CON	12 
18	BODY	16 
12	INT	2 
14	EGO	8 
18	PRE	8 
14	COM	2 
8	PD	3 
6	ED	3 
4	SPD	17 
10	REC	4 
50	END	9 
65	STUN	42 
Characteristics Cost: 151 
 
20	50% Damage Reduction (PD)(non-resistant),"Tough Guy"	 
10	+10 Constitution,doesn't add to figured,Only to avoid being	 
	stunned	 
7	+3" Running,1/2 END 
		 
3	WF,Lances,Common Melee	 
15	3 Levels: Swords,related group	 
13	4 Levels,related group,Only w/ Sweep Maneuver	 
3	Martial Grab	 
4	Martial Block	 
3	Martial Throw	 
9	14- Combat Sense	 
5	Defense Maneuver	 
7	14- Fast Draw	 
		 
3	Bureaucratics 13-	 
3	Gambling 11-	 
5	High Society 14	- 
3	Navigation 11-	 
5	Oratory 14-	 
5	Riding 13-	 
3	Survival 11-	 
9	Tactics 14-	 
1	TF,Boats	 
		 
6	15- Contact: Denethor	 
2	11- Contact: Imrahil	 
2	11 Contact: Faramir	 
3	Perk: Heir to the Ruling Steward	 
10	Money,wealthy	 
		 
7	AK: Gondor 16-	 
3	AK: Eriador 12- 
9	AK: Minas Tirith 18- 
4	KS: The Nobility of Gondor 13-	 
2	KS: Heraldry 11	- 
		 
1	Lang: Westron,native,literacy	 
1	Lang: Adunaic,literacy	 
		 
12	6/6 Armor,"Dunedain Chainmail",OIF	 
		 
18	Package,"Dunedain Broadsword",STR Min 13,OAF 
(14)	2D6+1 Killing Attack  HTH 
(4)	2 Levels,related group	 
		 
7	Package,"The Horn of Vorondil",OAF	 
(7)	+15 Presence	 
 
Powers Cost: 223 
Total Cost: 374 
 
Base Points: 75 
5	Distinctive Features,"Dunedain Warrior",easily concealable, 
	 minor 
10	Hunted,"Servants of Sauron",as powerful,harsh,appear 8- 
10	Watched,"Denethor",more powerful,noncombat influence,mild, 
	 appear 8- 
15	Psychological Limitation,"Love of War",common,strong 
15	Psychological Limitation,"Overconfidence",common,strong 
10	Psychological Limitation,"Driven by Prophetic Vision", 
	 uncommon,strong 
10	Public ID,"Heir to the throne of the Ruling Steward" 
5	Rivalry,"with Faramir",professional 
219	Doomed Bonus 
 
Disadvantages Total: 299 
Experience Spent: 0 
Total Points: 374 
 
 
 
Boromir was the eldest son of Denethor II, the Ruling Steward of Gondor.   
After leading the defense of Osgiliath against the armies of Sauron in  
3018, he went to Imladris (Rivendell) to try to understand the mysterious 
vision shared by him and his brother, Faramir.  He became part of the  
Fellowship of the Ring. 
 
At Amon Hen, the spell of the One Ring proved too powerful for Boromir 
and with his head filled with visions of victory over Sauron, he attempted 
to take it from Frodo by force.  He immediately repented of his actions, 
but his madness drove Frodo to set out on his own, thus sundering the 
Fellowship.   
 
This proved fortuitous, because Amon Hen was shortly thereafter attacked 
by a band of orcs.  Boromir died defending the hobbits Merry and Pippin 
from the orcs.  Later, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli gave Boromir a proper 
funeral, sending his body over the falls of Rauros in an elven boat, his 
sword and sundered horn by his side.  Weeks later, his body was found 
and brought to Denethor, which was one of the causes of Denethor's  
madness. 
 
Boromir was handsome, brave, and very strong.  He delighted only 
in war and his pride drove him to overconfidence. 
 
NOTES: 
 
Boromir is really big, even for a Dunedan.  He seems to have been 
enormously strong and tough, and so I have given him damage 
reduction and CON, only to avoid being stunned, as well as  
several strength-based maneuvers. 
 
The Horn of Vorondil is the great horn of Vorondil the Hunter, 
one of the greatest of the Ruling Stewards.  It's sounding seems 
to have heartened or disheartened all who heard it, hence the 
bonus to Presence when it is sounded. 
 
Note that, as a human, Boromir has paid double for characteristics 
over the normal maximum (thanks to those who pointed out that 
I forgot this with Aragorn). 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"All are but parts of one stupendous whole, 
whose body Nature is, and God the soul." 
        Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:21:28 -0800 
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com> 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
Marvel loser villains? Pretty much anyone Bill Mantlo came up with when 
he transformed Alpha Flight into Awful Flight, one of the most 
spectacular destructions of a comic title in history. 
 
For a really fun loser villain, check out the Ringer in Spectacular 
Spider-Man #58. He's a villain who was so incompetent that Peter Parker 
actually made his date on time. A great model for a character that your 
players will have fun mopping the floor with. A pity he got offed in the 
whole Scourge mess. 
 
How many campaigns out there actively use comic relief characters 
(villains or NPC heroes)? Admittedly Champions player characters often 
prove that "comedy is easy, dying is hard", but I've always found a few 
swattable loons to be an awful lot of fun to throw at PCs. I've never 
saddled the PCs with a bumbling hero groupie, but that might be an 
interesting thing to do too. 
 
Scott Bennie 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:56:27 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>  
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
> Hash: SHA1 
>  
> "RH" == Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> writes: 
>  
> RH> if one player helps "focus" anothers abilities at certain times, thats 
> RH> what teams are for.  But, as I said, if it would come into effect all 
> RH> the time, then the GM steps in and puts a stop to it. 
>  
> And this is different from using or enforcing DC caps during play because... 
 
 
	Is it two people getting together to evade laid down guidelines or is 
using powers creatively?  Are 12 DC a hard limit or can it be broken by 
a character within allowed rules?  You didn't reply to the rest of what 
I said, so I don't know what you position is for haymakers, movebys or 
other methods of boosting damage. 
 
	A sixty point attack can be boosted.  That's a 14 DC attack that is 
legal.  A brick with 50 strength kicks doing a 15 DC attack, again 
legal.  A brick throws another hero at a target doing killing damage 
that breaks the 12 DC limit.  At what point do you step in and say "Nah, 
Can't do that!"?  Presumably, the character(s) were vetted by the GM.  
If after a number of sessions, a combination of powers that you did not 
foresee is causing you grief, then you get them to alter whatever it is, 
otherwise you have to live with it. 
 
	I understand what Rat is saying.  But lets face it.  There are many 
ways that proscribed limits can be temporarily evaded.  As long as the 
limits are not being consistently broken by a deliberate attempt, so be 
it. 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:09:17 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: superleap attacks 
 
Mark Lemming wrote: 
>  
> Rick Holding wrote: 
> > 
> > Ronald A. Miller wrote: 
> > 
> > > Next subject, please:  Has anybody out there tried to simulate an 
> > > attack that is geared around jumping (Superleaping) at an 
> > > opponent, and bouncing OFF him causing (I'd say) Move By damage? 
> > > I would say that this would require some levels in Superleap to 
> > > perfect the 180 degree move off the target and maybe an Acrobatics 
> > > roll to enhance the attack's chances.  I think, too, that a 
> > > separately bought Damage Resistance can be employed to minimize 
> > > the Hero's damage if the Acrobatics roll is successful. 
> > Comments? 
> > 
> >         Don't buy it as a superleap attack.  Instead buy it as a 
> > ranged physical energy blast with the SX as you leaping at the target 
> > and bouncing back.  Gear it to the amount of damage you would 
> > normally do if 
> > you were leaping at the target and apply appropiate advantages and 
> > limitations. (There you go, Bob.  Right terminology for ya.) 
>  
> Problem with that version, is what if you want to bounce off and land 
> somewhere else.  Maybe you want flight with the limitation that you 
> have to land between phases and enough turn-mod levels to do a quick 
> turn around. 
 
	The use of 180 degree turns in the original post indicated to me that 
the person was to return to the same spot.  If you want to go somewhere 
else, include a short range teleport (this will allow you to get over 
holes in the ground).  Flight could also be used with appropiate 
restrictions. 
  
> Also, Damage resistance isn't going to do a bit of good.  Extra PD 
> would be a lot better.  (Unless you're attacking a Sea Urchin) 
 
	You don't need damage resistance or extra PD because you are not really 
doing a moveby on the target.  It just looks like it.  Hence you don't 
take any damage and need the extra defences. 
 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:38 +1000 
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Camp Councilor 
 
agreed. i tend to be more character specific here. as long as people 
spend points fairly (through proper aplication of limtations, and correction 
of things like 3 pt ha) and in genre, the exact points don't matter- nor do 
the 
point caps. If it works for the character, let it happen. in fact, i'd say 
that if 
you're constantly placing arbitary limits on things, perhaps you should be 
reviewing c's 
a bit more? 
 
 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> 
To: Champeens <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 8:52 AM 
Subject: Camp Councilor 
 
 
>This made me laugh. 
> 
>] >There is only one camp: caps are tools GMs use to ensure that nothing 
>] >unbalances their campaigns.  They should be used during all 
>] aspects of the 
>] >game, not just character creation, not just during play. 
> 
>It's attitudes like this that lead to religious wars and ethnic cleansing. 
>I'm so far out of this camp that I haven't bothered to comment until just 
>now. In my camp, we laugh at AP maximums. I've never had AP maximums in any 
>of my campaigns. The only thing that changes is that the campaigns get a 
>little more dangerous. 
> 
>Mind you, most of the games I've ran have been FH games but even in a 
>supahero genre, you find toadies with one off-balanced power they can only 
>use at a full moon with the wind from the south. If you make those 
>limitations count and lean on their weak spots, players stay in line. I had 
>a player in my first champs game that [after a dozen sessions or so] had a 
>110pt. multipower with an activation roll and full sideFX. Since his 
>character was demonic in origin, his side effect was a summon that called 
up 
>a couple of his old demonic secret police buddies to come and kill him. 
Once 
>the multi got that big, he was afraid to use it, just in case he blew the 
>roll. 
> 
>It's like I always say, 'If you wanted to be safe, you should have made a 
>cobbler'. 
> 
>Aside from that, nobody in my games ever seems to want a code against 
>killing. 
> 
>Right. That's it. I've buckled up my flame retardant underoos so fire away. 
>BRI 
> 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:29:53 -0500 
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@early.com> 
Subject: Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers 
 
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin <griffin@txdirect.net> 
 
 
>At 08:55 AM 1/18/1999 -0600, Curt Hicks wrote: 
>>I agree that 'in the context of normal superhero campaigns' this is 
true; 
>>because in 'normal superhero campaigns' players always buy their 
defenses 
>>up, regardless of whether or  not they actually have any 
justification to 
>>or not.  (Note that I am not talking about common sense precautions 
such 
>>as armor or a reinforced suit, that should be obvious when 
considering 
>>power level.)  However, I still don't see the difference between 
starting off 
>>with a 12D6 EB and a 4D6 RKA when a character has a CAK. 
 
 
(attack comparison snipped) 
 
>How can you not see a difference between the two?  A Normal Damage 
attack 
>and a Killing Damage attack of the *same* Damage Class only do 
equivalent 
>damage against a target with resistant defenses. 
> 
>I do agree that characters with a CAK should err on the side of 
caution 
>when selecting -- and certainly when using -- attacks, including 
>non-Killing Attacks of potentially lethal power.  But the fact that 
>significant Normal Damage will be absorbed by ordinary defenses gives 
the 
>12d6 EB-wielder more leeway than the character with the 4d6 RKA. 
> 
>Damon 
 
Pardon me while I shift the focus of this topic somewhat.  I have a 
problem drawing a distinction between the two, not as a matter of game 
mechanics, but as a question of "realism."  My definition of a Normal 
Attack is a narrow one.  I see it as a low-velocity, bludgeoning 
attack against which a character's PD may reasonably be interpreted as 
offering some protection against the attack. 
 
I buy the notion of a muscular boxer being able to take a 4d6 punch 
better than a normal moke.  But a 12 DC attack, capable of blowing a 
hole through a wall whether it's called a 12d6 EB or a 4d6 RKA?  How 
does the boxer shrug that off?  Once you're talking about attacks of 
such tremendous energy, then the distinction between Normal and 
Killing becomes meaningless.  Any such attack, regardless of its 
nature, does Killing damage, and normal PD doesn't count for beans. 
 
Now, a missile traveling 120 m/sec can penetrate any human body 
cavity.  Throw a baseball hard enough, and it becomes a big bullet. 
Drop a safe out of a 10th story window, and when it comes to absorbing 
the safe's kinetic energy, it doesn't matter whether the person it 
falls on is a heavyweight boxer or a little old lady.  Have a 60 STR 
brick land a punch on that boxer, and the brick's fist is going to 
smash right through all that muscle and bone like it's wet cardboard. 
 
So I would call any 12+ DC attack a KA.  It's a rules change that 
makes the world more lethal, so any superhero with a CAK had better 
think twice before loosing the full force of his mightiest attack 
without knowing what the target can withstand. 
 
Len Carpenter 
redlion@early.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:37:15 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: Star Maps 
 
At 09:38 PM 1/18/99 -0600, you wrote: 
>Okay folks I had forgotten this, it is a week late, but here it is. 
>The following url is for a nice 2300 fan in Italy I believe. 
>His Warp 98 program generates printable real star maps within a 100ly radius 
>of earth I think. 
> 
>He also has a program there that creates starsystem data. 
>http://archiginnasio.dsnet.it/max/warp 
> 
>I knew I had forgotten something. 
> 
WOW!  This program kicks butt!  I love it! 
I've been looking for something just like this and figured I'd have to 
write it myself. 
 
============================ 
Geoff Heald 
============================ 
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:56:59 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
At 11:21 PM 1/18/99 -0800, you wrote: 
These guys fought the Defenders in the Howard the Duck Annual: 
Bullseye, an ex-federal agent now branded for life by Native Americans he 
was investigating undercover who tattooed a big target on his chest.  I 
think he used suction cup tipped arrows. 
Some lame Valkerie chick. 
Another guy I don't remember. 
And, The Black Hole, a man with a bit of neutronium embedded in his chest. 
He wears an all yellow costume except the area around his eyes is black as 
is the vortex he can create in his chest.  His powers? "Like his namesake, 
The Black Hole sucks."  He can draw people or things into the hole in his 
chest, never to be seen again. He was destroyed when someone pushed his 
hand (that is, The Black Hole's hand) into his chest.  He sorta sucked 
himself in and disappeared. 
 
============================ 
Geoff Heald 
============================ 
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:31:20 -0500 (EST) 
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor) 
Subject: Re: Camp Councilor 
 
Well Steven said nicely what i pulled on my players. 150pt with no limit 
on disadvantages and no caps and a warning that I knew the rules a lot 
better then they did. one came up with a STR 89, DEX 43 and no real 
defences. I responded with snipers with real good skill levels and area 
attacks.  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:23 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes 
 
>From: sbennie@dowco.com (Scott Bennie) 
 
>>Marvel loser villains? Pretty much anyone Bill 
>> Mantlo came up with when he transformed 
>> Alpha Flight into Awful Flight, one of the 
>> most spectacular destructions of a comic 
>> title in history.  
 
I think he's only looking for loser heroes; mentioning the Mantlo ALPHA 
FLIGHt *does* bring to mind the embarassing Mannikin, a kid who could 
slide up and down the evoltionary scale....a silly character. 
 
>>How many campaigns out there actively use 
>> comic relief characters (villains or NPC 
>> heroes)? 
 
I usually try to have the odd goofy character--including my traditional 
use of a villian called the Deadly Human Top, who spins.  Real fast.   
 
The other recurring goofy villians I like to use are Slash and Burn, a 
duo based not-so-subtlely on Lenny and Squiggy.... 
 
"A trial without witnesses is like the Euro, a monetary system without 
the benefits of paper money or coin--what's the fun of that?" 
- --Harry Shearer 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #147 
*****************************