Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 150
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:19 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #150
champ-l-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 150
In this issue:
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: Loser Heroes (fwd)
RE: Character: Boromir
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: Loser Heroes
Dark Champions?
RE: Loser Heroes
Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
RE: Character: Boromir
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
One More Note On Celeborn
Re: superleap attacks
Character: Celeborn
Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
You know you're a good GM when...
Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: superleap attacks
Re: Dark Champions?
Re: Loser Heroes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:14:46 -0600
From: Trevor Gunther <gunthert@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
Batroc was partners with Razorfist and Zaran the weoponsmaster, I've never seen
him team with either the Frightful Four or Sinister Six.
Trevor.
Ronald A. Miller wrote:
> There was a guy who scrapped SpiderMan a couple of times called the Leaper.
>
> That would be Batroc, he showed up in a few Captain America's too. His
> forte was Savate, actually. Wasn't he one of the Frightful Four or the
> Sinister Six or something like that?
>
> Miller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes (fwd)
>> >
>> >I think Evolvo Lad was one of the Heroes of Lallor, a sort of "indy"
>> >Legion on another planet. Renamed Elvo at some point for an issue or
>> >three, probably until they realized what kind of cracks could be made
>> >outta that ("Elvo has left the building!")
>>
>> Hmmm. I think you're confusing the Lallorian heroes and the team that
>> inclded Quantum Queen, Dartalg and company, who's name suddenly escapes me.
>> Elvo was the fellow who carried the electrified sword before they re-wrote
>> him late in the day. Evolvo Lad is back in the current continuity.
>>
>>
>
>The Wanderers ! I got the mini-series although I'd never seen them in
>a story before. The mini-series started with an interesting premise,
>the characters were all clones of the original Wanderers (in some cases
>with upgrades, i.e. 'cause their original powers were too stupid)
>and were investigating what happened to the originals....
I never actually thought the Wanderers were all that stupid. Some of them
were a little drab, but all they suffered from was being characters of their
day.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:48 -0500
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net>
Subject: RE: Character: Boromir
> BOROMIR, SON OF DENETHOR
> 16 CON 12
> 20 50% Damage Reduction (PD)(non-resistant),"Tough Guy"
I'd probably make his CON a couple points higher, and drop the DR
to 25%...I generally try to use characteristics/skills over powers
when designing 'normals' (even high-point normals).
> 3 Martial Grab
> 4 Martial Block
> 3 Martial Throw
What martial art would you group these under? (Wrestling?).
I don't know if he's really the martial arts sort; I see him as a
brawler, and a consummate warrior, but he didn't show any particular
unarmed finesse that I can recall.
> 3 Gambling 11-
He never struck me as the gambling type, but I
could be mistaken; is there a mention of it anywhere?
I'd also add:
6 PS: Soldier 15-
> 12 6/6 Armor,"Dunedain Chainmail",OIF
>
> 18 Package,"Dunedain Broadsword",STR Min 13,OAF
> (14) 2D6+1 Killing Attack HTH
> (4) 2 Levels,related group
2d6+1 seems a rather high for a broadsword, even one of
high quality. (FH lists a broadsword as 1d6+1). He
also might not need to be charged for the armor, since
his wealth would justify it in most fantasy settings.
> 7 Package,"The Horn of Vorondil",OAF
> (7) +15 Presence
You could probably put Gestures and Incantations on
this, if you wanted.
Disadvantages:
> 15 Psychological Limitation,"Overconfidence",common,strong
I always felt he was more proud than overconfident...but that could be
just me.
I'd probably add:
Either a professional rivalry (Aragorn) or a psych lim (jealous of Aragorn)
15 Psych Lim: "Devoted to Gondor", common, strong
5 1d6 Unluck (He was ill-fated from the onset)
----Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:10:59 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
Anybody who's ever been on The Tick.
(Four-Legged Man, Feral Boy, Carpeted Man, etc.)
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:18:41 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers
>
>
>Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>
>> >So I would call any 12+ DC attack a KA. It's a rules change that
>> >makes the world more lethal, so any superhero with a CAK had better
>> >think twice before loosing the full force of his mightiest attack
>> >without knowing what the target can withstand.
>>
>> It's also seriously counter-genre.
>
>Then why, Wayne, does Cyclops hold back the full-force of his optic blasts? Why
>does Superman pull his punch when hitting normals (or even most supervillains)?
>Why does Batman not beat the living $#!+ out of muggers and thugs, leaving them
>comatose?
>
First off, because they're extreme cases; Cyclops is not a 12D6 EB in his
setting; he's probably more like an 18D6, given the variety of an energy
blasters in his setting; he's high end even for the superhero setting.
Superman is even more so. And I've yet to notice Batman ever pull a punch
or even indicate he was doing so when fighting badguys; if he has, it's
never been in anything I've seen.
>I say it's because they know how damaging "Normal Attacks" are, and their Codes
>won't let them unload on someone they have a chance of killing or maiming.
And in two of those cases, you're probably right; and they'd probably do so
even under the current mechanics because many people _don't_ have enough
defense to take it. Superman probably has about 125 Champions strength;
I've seen quite a few supers without 25 PD.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:39:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
> At 06:53 AM 1/17/1999 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > In the few Batman comics I've read over the past few years, the only
> >time the topic's come up, he's adamantly refused to kill. (I think this
> >was in some part of the Contagion epic.) Has he intentionally killed
> >someone at any time since the Zero Hour reboot, or at least since the
> >Crisis on Infinite Earths?
Not that I'm up on the latest developments in the comics worlds
(I went through a lean period in the early nineties that weaned me of
the habit), BUT...
One of the distinctive things about Batman, particularly when he
showed up in other characters' books, was that he *didn't* have a code
against killing. This became a major point of the whole Ras Al Ghul
story where he ended up using Ghul's orbital death ray against him at
the end (as Ras makes the stereotypical last-minute getaway in a
hidden escape craft... which takes him into the field of fire of the
death ray).
I'm not going to argue continuity, I'm just saying that although
Batman didn't kill casually, the fact that the was so driven and at
times ruthless to the point of killing was (in my opinion) part of
what made him interesting.
Batman is in some ways the personification of our own internal
desires for "real justice", but a personification that is tinged with
the disquieting aspects of the situation as well as the adolescent
power-fulfillment. Frank Miller brought this to the foreground again
with his _Dark Knight_ work, but it was always an element of Batman.
My favorite "written" superhero work is David Brin's _Thor Meets
Captain America_, from his _River of Time_ anthology. No, the
characters are not based on Marvel's, nor are they set in a Marvel
universe, but I think the story gets at the underlying resonance
between comic books and readers. Give it a read. I'd love to see a
similar approach to Batman.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:51:31 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
Here's one:
Captain Ares from Top Secret SI F.R.E.E. Lancers.
Basicly, in a low powered "enhanced para-normals" campaign, this guy wore a
cape and tights with a big "A" on his chest. He could fly a little and was
real strong without being too muscular and was kinda bulletproof. His
disads included a major delusion: he thinks he's from another planet and
that is how he got his powers. Something about our lesser gravity and/or
the color of our sun.
Point is, this guy just doesn't have the points to be superman, but he
thinks he is.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:24:59 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
At 04:58 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>Old New Mutant members Cypher, Rusty and Skids. Poor.
>
>>If you want to consider CYPHER from the New Mutants. OOOOO... Languages.
>>Scare me more.
>>
>HEY, hey hey hey, don't y'all be talking about cypher like that, cypher
ruled.
>I mean anyone who's got adamantium bones or a nova blast can go out and
>fight evil, but to fight the good fight when all you have is 20 points in
>universal translator, you got ta be a stud. Besides he had that thing going
>with Psylock ( and roulette, and raine).
>
And don't forget the Doug Ramsey/Warlock team up. In one of the Annuals,
Warlock became powered armor for Doug. I thought it was perfect:I got the
brains, you've got the looks; let's make lots of money.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:24:27 -0500
From: "Graelorn" <graelorn@ezwv.com>
Subject: Dark Champions?
Hello,
I just recently received Champions 4th ed deluxe and San Angelo from GRG,
and well, since I'm satisfied w/ the ease of ordering and the speedy
delivery time I'm now leaning towards ordering Dark Champions...Tho I can't
say I really have much of an idea as to what the book contains. I assume it
gives some genre notes and a gritty setting, but what else does it contain?
New rules perhaps? Would it be a worthwhile purchase? How many pages is it?
- --Thanks in advance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:05:18 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Loser Heroes
At 01:43 PM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote:
>In the 'Losers We Love' category, Zan & Jayna, the Wonder Twins! Form of...
>a goat! Shape of an ice slide!
>
For those who haven't seen it, Cartoon Network has a great comercial with
these two. It begins as an editorial about what is real and what is
make-believe. "Some of you may have watched our show and thought that you,
too, could turn into an Argelian Tiger..." "Or, a giant bucket of
icewater." Quickly it degenerates: "Hey! Why do I always have to turn
into something lame like ice?" "I don't know, Zan, but this isn't really
the time to..." "When ARE we gonna talk about it? I mean, what kind of
superpower do I really have? I could be beaten by a sponge. It wouldn't
even have to be an _evil_ sponge!"(accompanied by picture of Legion of
Doom, zoom in on evil sponge snickering).
It's worth a see.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:41:32 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
At 07:43 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I know this has been discused before, but I must admit I wasn't paying
>enought attention.
>Why is the list set up so that the messages are "from" the writer of the
>message instead of "from" the champ-l list.
>(I just hit "reply to" and sent a message that was intended to the list as
>a whole to just the person who wrote the message, usually I rember to
>change the "to" field, usually.)
> Max Callahan
>
Main Reason, (as I understand it) if you go away suddenly, like when my ISP
closed my account on me, your ISP starts bouncing your e-mail. That is,
mail to you from the list gets sent back as a reply saying "could not
deliver". If that message went to the list, everyone would get it,
including you. Then, it would bounce again. Soon, total gridlock.
There are ways around this, I'm told, but I think they might not work with
this list program, or they mean more work for the moderator or something.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jan 1999 00:29:10 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"MC" == Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com> writes:
MC> Why is the list set up so that the messages are "from" the writer of the
MC> message instead of "from" the champ-l list.
Because I am writing this message, not the mailing list software behind the
champ-l mailbox. I am the originator, therefore my my mailbox goes in the
From (originator) header. Putting anyone else's mailbox in the From header
is Just Plain Wrong (and if you want the technical details, contact me off
the list).
MC> (I just hit "reply to" and sent a message that was intended to the list
MC> as a whole to just the person who wrote the message, usually I rember
MC> to change the "to" field, usually.)
Get a better mail client, one that distinguishes between replies to the
originator and replies to the list (or learn to use the features of the
software you currently have).
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE2pWmlgl+vIlSVSNkRAiCaAKCV4Zxmj2kUzdRncnptYGf4F55MYACgpRnB
G4Wv5gdPNiVr22HtHwKm35c=
=20ZE
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:15:44 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Character: Boromir
>> 3 Gambling 11-
>He never struck me as the gambling type, but I
>could be mistaken; is there a mention of it anywhere?
This was admittedly my touch. Not sure why.
>I'd also add:
> 6 PS: Soldier 15-
>
>> 12 6/6 Armor,"Dunedain Chainmail",OIF
>>
>> 18 Package,"Dunedain Broadsword",STR Min 13,OAF
>> (14) 2D6+1 Killing Attack HTH
>> (4) 2 Levels,related group
>
>2d6+1 seems a rather high for a broadsword, even one of
>high quality. (FH lists a broadsword as 1d6+1). He
>also might not need to be charged for the armor, since
>his wealth would justify it in most fantasy settings.
The Armor is better than regular chainmail. I think the
sword is okay, considering who has it. It's a very good
magical broadsword.
>> 7 Package,"The Horn of Vorondil",OAF
>> (7) +15 Presence
>
>You could probably put Gestures and Incantations on
>this, if you wanted.
Good point.
>Disadvantages:
>> 15 Psychological Limitation,"Overconfidence",common,strong
>I always felt he was more proud than overconfident...but that could be
>just me.
>
>I'd probably add:
>Either a professional rivalry (Aragorn) or a psych lim (jealous of Aragorn)
>15 Psych Lim: "Devoted to Gondor", common, strong
> 5 1d6 Unluck (He was ill-fated from the onset)
I see a difference between Unluck and a character who dies badly. We
only seem as fated ex post. Most people who knew Boromir would
not have called him unlucky while he lived. Quite the reverse, in fact.
Spaceman Spiff. Now -that's- Unluck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:50:21 -0800
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
Scott Bennie wrote:
> > I think you're referring to the immortal Batroc the Leaper (or Leapair),
> > a classic Captain America villian--when Byron Preiss let me know that
> > the next anthology after X-MEN LEGENDS was going to be THE ULTIMATE
> > CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE AVENGERS, I actually considered (and talked to
> > my editor about) a story called "The Ultimate Batroc".....I LOVE THIS
> > GUY!!!
>
> Chalk me up as someone who loves Batroc too. Unlike most loser villains, the
> guy is fun. He tries so hard - he's like Wile E. Coyote in tights with a
> cheezy accent and a dumb goatee.
>
> I think the "best" loser heroes or villains are ones which don't take
> themselves *too* seriously, but which don't go all the way into camp or
> parodyland either.
>
> Scott Bennie
That's what I'm looking for, really. I have some odd ball master villain that
is capturing the half assed heroes and making them truly powerful (or at least
average when compared to others). He figures they'll be loyal because they will
finally have the power that they've always wanted.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:04:57 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
> On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Jesse Thomas wrote:
> <I'm piggybacking, so someone else wrote this, not Jesse>
> > > Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that
> > >1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's,
> > >1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be
> > >different.
>
> Well...no...see, 'the 40s' is a different concept from 'the fourth decade
> of the 20th century'.
>
> One is 1940-1949.
> The other is 1941-1950.
I realise that I am nitpicking here but the fourth decade is 1931-1940.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:30:16 -0600
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
- -----Original Message-----
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
>At 04:58 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Old New Mutant members Cypher, Rusty and Skids. Poor.
>>
>>>If you want to consider CYPHER from the New Mutants. OOOOO... Languages.
>>>Scare me more.
>>>
>>HEY, hey hey hey, don't y'all be talking about cypher like that, cypher
>ruled.
>>I mean anyone who's got adamantium bones or a nova blast can go out and
>>fight evil, but to fight the good fight when all you have is 20 points in
>>universal translator, you got ta be a stud. Besides he had that thing
going
>>with Psylock ( and roulette, and raine).
>>
>And don't forget the Doug Ramsey/Warlock team up. In one of the Annuals,
>Warlock became powered armor for Doug. I thought it was perfect:I got the
>brains, you've got the looks; let's make lots of money.
Quick trivia point. Art Adams drew that particular armor based on one that
appears in an actual anime show (and no it wasn't Gundam or Macross!) Which
particular Anime show did he get the armor from? If anyone shows an
interest, I'll post the answer later.
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:53:31 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: One More Note On Celeborn
I forgot to mention that Celeborn's 2000 year stay in Dol Amroth
is, as far as I can tell, not according to professor Tolkien, but
according to ICE (Southern Gondor: The People). But they do
such an amazingly good job on Tolkien stuff that I thought I'd put
it in.
Scott
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:31:06 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks
Ronald A. Miller wrote:
> I really don't want to lose sight of the concept here. If Skyshot does a
> leap attack (BTW if you're thinking of it like some kind of
> linear/horizontal jump then that's not what I had in mind, it's more like a
> power jump up and come down HARD on the target) then he runs the risk of
> being Grabbed by the opponent and wrangled. All these other concepts seem
> to go off the pretense that it's some kind of
> rediculous-anime-type-background-lines-flying-in-the-air-for-a-full-minute-m
> ove (really, no offense intended). All I really want is an attack based
> around Superleap that can get the PC in and out of there in one move. All
> the opinions so far are appreciated, though, and may be used as minor attack
> variants, so thanks.
Okay, step by step.
Move by and move through has several options as to where you end up at
the end of your attack run. In the hex of contact, in the hex where the
target lands or at the limit of the movement power. Hence you dont NEED
to be in the same hex as your target.
Your constant referal to "get the PC in and out of there in one move"
indicates to me that what I suggested was a valid response to what you
wanted. If you don't want to be in the air "for a full minute", you
dont have to be. In fact as superleap is written, your normal combat
movement takes one phase, the same as moving the same distance with
combat running, flight, swimming, etc.
So, if you are after a high speed move through, then buy a high speed
move through. Make it double knockback if you are concerned about
moving the target. Buy stun only damage resistance for move throughs
that you do.
But if what you are after is an attack described as a leaping attack
where you bounce to some other location, buy an energy blast with linked
teleport to the limit of how far you think you can bounce. You don't
have to worry about taking damage or suffering the adverse effects to
DCV for move throughs.
>
> > You don't need damage resistance or extra PD because you are not really
> >doing a moveby on the target. It just looks like it. Hence you don't
> >take any damage and need the extra defences.
>
> The hit would be ultimately based around bodily contact, thus STR and PD
> would be taken into consideration for the move's concept.
If that is what you want.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:49:18 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Celeborn
CELEBORN THE WISE
13 STR 3
18 DEX 24
14 CON 8
11 BODY 2
28 INT 18
23 EGO 26
23 PRE 13
20 COM 5
4 PD 1
6 ED 3
5 SPD 22
10 REC 8
40 END 6
40 STUN 15
Characteristics Cost: 154
6 Life Support,immune to disease,immune to aging
6 +2 Enhanced Perception,with all senses
5 Ultraviolet Vision
3 Ultrasonic Hearing
10 Eidetic Memory
4 +2" Running
53 Invisibility,Sight Group,Hearing Group,Only in Woodland
settings,0 END Persistent
4 WF,Common Melee,Common Missile
16 2 Levels,all combat
6 2 Levels: Bows,tight group
20 2 Levels,all skills (added in parens, below)
4 2 Rng Levels: Bows,tight group
3 Conversation 14- (16-)
9 High Society 17- (19-)
3 Navigation 11- (13-)
9 Oratory 17- (19-)
3 Paramedic 15- (17-)
3 Persuasion 14- (16-)
3 Riding 13- (15-)
9 Survival 14- (16-)
3 Tactics 15- (17-)
3 Tracking 15- (17-)
1 TF,Boats
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Sindarin,native,literacy
4 Lang: Quenya,imitate dialects,literacy
2 Lang: Adunaic,fluent w/accent,literacy
2 Lang: Westron,fluent w/accent,literacy
3 Scholar
2 KS: Eldar History 15,- (17-)
2 KS: History of MiddleEarth 15- (17-)
2 KS: Councils of the Wise 15- (17-)
2 KS: Minions and Powers of Sauron 15- (17-)
5 KS: Items of Power 18,- (20-)
3 Traveler
4 AK: Lorien 17- (19-)
4 AK: Eregion 17- (19-)
4 AK: Dol Amroth 17- (19-)
4 AK: Doriath 17- (19-)
2 AK: Gondor 15- (17-)
2 AK: Eriador 15- (17-)
2 AK: Rhovanion 15- (17-)
2 AK: Beleriand 15- (17-)
3 Well Connected
11 21- Contact: Galadriel
4 14- Contact: Elrond
3 13- Contact: Thranduil
3 13- Contact: Cirdan
3 13- Contact: Gandalf
2 12- Contact: Radagast
1 8- Contact: Fangorn
90 5,000 150-point Followers
10 Head of State
15 Money,filthy rich
140 Variable Power Pool (100-point pool),
restricted type of powers ("Woodland Powers"),
no skill roll required, Extra Time,time: 1 turn
125 Package,"Elven Chain Byrnie",OIF
(13) 6/7 Armor
(90) 15D6 Dispel,"v. Magic",vs SFX (all powers), 0 END
(7) 10 Power Defense
43 Package,"Bow of Doriath",OAF,STR Min 13
(33) 2D6 Killing Attack Ranged,vs physical defense,x5 Autofire,
0 END,double cost (for autofire)
(7) 3 Levels: Bows,related group
(3) 3 Rng Levels,tight group
31 Package,"Sword of Gondolin",OAF,STR Min 13
(27) 2D6 Killing Attack HTH,vs physical defense,x1 Armor
Piercing,+1 Stun Multiplier
(4) 2 Levels,related group
15 Package,"Star of Eregion",OAF
(15) 200/10 End Reserve
Powers Cost: 740
Total Cost: 894
Base Points: 75
15 Distinctive Features,"Sinda Lord",concealable,major
10 Watched,"Galadriel",more powerful,mild,appear 14-
10 Psychological Limitation,"Desire to remain in woodlands",
common,moderate
15 Psychological Limitation,"Dedicated to Protection of his
people",common,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Love of Galadriel",common,strong
5 Reputation,"Celeborn the Wise",occur 8-
749 "Wise? Coulda Fooled Me!" Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 819
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 894
Celeborn the Wise is the Lord of Lorien and rules with his wife
Galadriel at his side. He is a noble Sinda, a relative of Elwe,
king of Doriath. He met and married Galadriel in Doriath in the
First Age, and together they had one daughter, Celebrian.
At the fall of Doriath, Celeborn fled with Galadriel to Arvernien,
and remained with her when the Valar refused to allow her to
return to Valinor. At the end of the First Age, they moved to Lindon
and dwelt with Cirdan. Some years later, they moved to Eregion
and dwelt there with Celebrimbor until the War of the Elves and
Sauron brought that nation to an end. They then returned to Lindon.
After the War of the Last Alliance and the start of the Third Age,
Celeborn and Galadriel took up residence in Dol Amroth at the
plea of Amroth himself, who moved to found Lorien. There they
lived for almost two thousand years until the death of Amroth in Third
Age 1981, when they took over the lordship of Lorien, leaving Dol
Amroth in the keeping of the descendants of Imrazor.
Celeborn ruled over Lorien and the Galadrim, its people until the end
of the Third Age. During the War of the Ring, Celeborn led the army
that took Dol Guldur, Sauron's former residence in Mirkwood. When
Galadriel went over the sea with the Last Riding of the Bearers of the
Ring in Third Age 3021, Celeborn found that he did not want to leave
Middle-Earth, but neither did he want to live in Lorien without Galadriel,
so he ruled in Southern Mirkwood, which he renamed East Lorien.
After a time, he tired of rule and travelled to Rivendell. Perhaps he
eventually sailed west to Valinor and was reunited with Galadriel.
Celeborn was reputed to be very wise, even though that quality
is not demonstrated in The Lord of the Rings.
NOTES:
1) I made up all the magic items. They seemed elvish and right
to me, but no mention of what Celeborn carried is made in the novels
and I don't own the ICE "Lorien" supplement.
2) "The Star of Eregion" is intended to represent a jewel created
in Eregion that did not fall under Sauron's power. It draws upon
the power of the stars of Varda and fuels Celeborn's magic.
3) Magic is a rare thing in Middle-Earth. Even the wizards
do not have flashy spells (Gandalf can't fly or hurl fireballs).
Therefore, Celeborn's VPP is intended to represent his power
over the woodlands of Lorien. All powers should be non-spectacular.
For instance, Celeborn probably uses the power most often to watch
the borders or to communicate with his Galadrim captains. Rarely,
he might use it to summon allies like the eagles to him.
4) Despite this being a Fantasy character, Celeborn did not have
to pay double for going over Normal Characteristic Maxima. He's
an ancient elf-lord and that's a good enough reason for me.
5) Someone on the list mentioned Celeborn's Ring of Power.
They were confusing Celeborn with Galadriel, who has the Ring of Water.
Look for Galadriel soon!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:26:08 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
At 12:29 AM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"MC" == Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com> writes:
>
>MC> Why is the list set up so that the messages are "from" the writer of the
>MC> message instead of "from" the champ-l list.
>
>Because I am writing this message, not the mailing list software behind the
>champ-l mailbox. I am the originator, therefore my my mailbox goes in the
>From (originator) header. Putting anyone else's mailbox in the From header
>is Just Plain Wrong (and if you want the technical details, contact me off
>the list).
>
>MC> (I just hit "reply to" and sent a message that was intended to the list
>MC> as a whole to just the person who wrote the message, usually I rember
>MC> to change the "to" field, usually.)
>
>Get a better mail client, one that distinguishes between replies to the
>originator and replies to the list (or learn to use the features of the
>software you currently have).
>
My mail client is just fine. The list sets the From box as you (or whoever
wrote the message) and the Reply box as the same. I know it's not my mail
software's problem because on almost every other list I'm on, the Reply To
box is the list, not the author.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:28 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Reply to does not go to champ-l
Its best to set the reply to the sender on high volume lists because of
the large number of off topic messages, private flames, and lurkers that
prefer to stay hidden. The lists I'm on run half and half with the
smaller lists prefering the reply to list option. Its easier to
remember a few addresses. just be happy if you can snip replyes, all I
can do is forward the whole message or retype the parts i want to send
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:44:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Logan Darklighter wrote:
> >And don't forget the Doug Ramsey/Warlock team up. In one of the Annuals,
> >Warlock became powered armor for Doug. I thought it was perfect:I got the
> >brains, you've got the looks; let's make lots of money.
>
> Quick trivia point. Art Adams drew that particular armor based on one that
> appears in an actual anime show (and no it wasn't Gundam or Macross!) Which
> particular Anime show did he get the armor from? If anyone shows an
> interest, I'll post the answer later.
Dunno... sorta reminds me of Patlabor. And have you ever noticed all the
*junk* Art stuffed into his books? The X-Men/Asgardian bit and the
X-Men/New Mutants vs Mojo are filled with all sorts of little gags tucked
away in the corners of panels.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Think for yourselves and question authority."
Dr. Timothy Leary
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:20:36 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: You know you're a good GM when...
... you get an email from someone who went to your website, asking if one of
the news items for your pbem game is true. :)
Of course, that could say something completely different about the level of
intelligence of the general population, but I'd just like to think I'm just
that good. :)
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
If the GM smiles, run. If she laughs, it's too late...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:10:36 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
>> >>PS I also remember an old Dragon article that had some poorly thought out
>> >>Champions powers and skills including the skill: "Bouncing".
I'm not sure which issue this is from, but years ago I photocopied it, cut
it out and pasted it into a campaign rulesbook:
"BOUNCING 5 pts for INT Roll / +1 per 2 pts
This is the skill of finding structures in the inner city against which a
character may bounce. Scenery such as flagpoles and telephone wires can be
found with a successful use of this skill. An Acrobatics roll is still
necessary to bounce against the item or to keep from falling from it. If
the Acrobatics roll is made, the character may leap at five times the
normal distance allowed for the character's strength; characters with
Superleap add this extra distance to the end of their normal leaping
distance. Bouncing is a favorite skill among street heroes."
I believe it was the same Dragon article that included Combat Luck, Extra
Life, Domination, Enragement, Knockout, Power Healing, Slipperiness,
Temporal Fugue, Transmutation and Vertigo, though those may have been split
up into a couple of separate articles. There was at least one more
article, that offered things like Pliability, Throwing Master, and the Lack
of Control Limitation.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:22:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
> 3) Magic is a rare thing in Middle-Earth. Even the wizards
> do not have flashy spells (Gandalf can't fly or hurl fireballs).
Um...Gandalf can't fly, true, but he most certainly /can/ hurl fireballs.
Go dig out your copy of the Hobbit and re-read the scene when Thorin,
Gandalf and company have been treed by the wolves.
Granted, they're not AD&D 'fill the room and the corridor and
the...oops...' type fireballs, but they're there.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:27:25 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks
>>>PS I also remember an old Dragon article that had some poorly thought out
>>>Champions powers and skills including the skill: "Bouncing".
>>
>>Steve Maurer's article, after it was rejected by Adventurer's Club?
>>"Champions Minus", I believe it was called...
>>
>Was that it? When did it come out? I'm gonna lose sleep if I don't find
>it. It's here somewhere... It had a characture of Steve P. in "Generic
>Hero"s costume right (a big hex on the chest, not Herculan)?
>
>
>Miller
>
>
>
The only other "hex" character I recall is HexMaster, from AC #3 (spring
'84), but the Champions Minus article was not in this issue of AC. I don't
recall which issue it was in, but a reprint can be found in Hero System
Almanac #2.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:49:59 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Dark Champions?
At 12:24 AM 1/20/99 -0500, Graelorn wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I just recently received Champions 4th ed deluxe and San Angelo from GRG,
>and well, since I'm satisfied w/ the ease of ordering and the speedy
>delivery time I'm now leaning towards ordering Dark Champions...Tho I can't
>say I really have much of an idea as to what the book contains. I assume it
>gives some genre notes and a gritty setting, but what else does it contain?
>New rules perhaps? Would it be a worthwhile purchase? How many pages is it?
>
DARK CHAMPIONS is one of the few books I've chosen to buy. I highly
recommend it.
It doesn't add any new rules, but provides a wealth of suggestions
for creative uses of the existing rules. There's also a bunch of
sample characters, weapons, and (if I recall correctly) a small
sample scenario.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:40:07 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
>>>CHANCE and GOMI from Fallen Angels:
>>> Chance enhances mutant powers, Gomi had
>>> artificial TK powers which he could use to
>>> fire force blasts... he was friends/owner of
>>> two cybernetic lobsters! (what could be sillier
>>> than cyber-crustaceans?!)
>
>Geez, I forgot about Gomi!!!
>
>Wasn't there also a tacky alien type called Ariel who came from the
>dimension (I kid you not) Coconut Grove, and could teleport people and
>things, but only using doors as a focus?
Yes... And the Fallen Angels were led by the Vanisher, a loser in his own
right. :)
>And don't forget Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy!
>
>I dunno--Haywire never struck me as that awful--Pinball, however, who
>could expand his body into a big ball and try to run people over (he
>appeared in a SS crossover with CAPTAIN AMERICA) and Remanat, a guy who
>threw lethal carpet samples--they were both pretty awful.
I stand by my original assesment: Haywire is a loser! That is why they
left him on Earth Avengers (well, he said because it was that he had
nothing left to go back to, but we readers know better...) :)
Of course, the whole Squadron Supreme was a big characiture of JLA, down to
the villain: Master Menace. The parallels are both blatant and obvious.
Other silly heroes, and I am surprised no one mentioned them yet:
The Zoo Crew:
Captain Carrot, Fatsback, RubberDuck, Pig Iron, Alley Kat Abra, and (gawd
forbid) Yankee Poodle!
and Little Cheese, the shrinking mouse, joined later...
Also, from DC, Legionnaire Matter Eater Lad!
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #150
*****************************
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Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:13 PM