Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 154
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 7:35 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #154
champ-l-digest Thursday, January 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 154
In this issue:
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Hastur
Re: Speedster Flavor
Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
Re: Character: Barrow wight
Speedster flavor
Re: SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
Re: Point balance vs. Power balance
Re: Speedster flavor
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Hastur
Re: Killing and Expectations
Re: You know you're a good GM when...
Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers
Re: Character: Denethor
Re: slippery floors?
Hero Creator: Life Support
Re: More Triggered Questions
Re: Speedster flavor
Re: Trigger Question
Re: Character: Celeborn
Character: Elrond
Re: Hero Creator: Life Support
Re: Character: Elrond
Re: Character: Celeborn
Note on Elrond
Re: [crossworlds] Re: In Search Of New Stuff
Re: Character: Elrond
Re: Killing and Expectations
Re: Character: Elrond
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:21:39 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
At 07:19 AM 1/21/99 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>No offense intended:
None Taken.
>But aren't all these characters defined in Role-Master
>terms on the "Lords of Middle-Earth" Series 1 2 & 3 ?
Wouldn't know, don't own it.
>Or are we seeking a new, low-power iinterpretation of
>all Tolkien's personas?
- -We- are not doing anything. I am writing them up as I see fit.
Though I am now curious as to the other interpretations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:10:22 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Hastur
Something to have the heroes hear over the radio sometime:
"Well it looks to be a good day here at Miskatonic Stadium."
"Yes it does, and here come the Flutists, cheerleading team for the Flying
Cephalopods! Let's listen in..."
"Gimme an H!"
"H!"
"Gimme an A!"
"A!"
"Gimme an S-T-U!"
"S-T-U!"
"Say, one of the professors is rushing down toward the cheerleaders, I
wonder what's that about?"
"Gimme an R!"
"R!"
"What does that spell?"
"NO! WAIT!"
"HASTUR!"
"And a new player has just taken the field. He's a big one, looks like he
could have the entire opposing team for breakfast."
"Ha ha, he does at that. Say, why do you suppose he's looking up here..."
<FSSSSHHHHH>
"This game has been called on account of technical difficulties."
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:52:19 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Speedster Flavor
Kirk Lund wrote:
>
> I suppose a GM could simply require these LS powers for any super
> fast character. Isn't that unfair though? Maybe. "LS: Protection From
> Using Your Own Energy Blast" comes to mind. I'm not trying to raz you
> Lisa, I'm just wondering if it's fair. The character spent the points on
> a power. Why should he or she take damage for using it?
>
> The power is worth less so you could reflect this by adding in Power
> Lim's like "Causes friction damage -1/2" and "Cannot breathe, must
> hold breath while using power -1/2" (insert whatever modifier values
> you feel are right). Then if you buy the specialized LS powers, you're
> just sort of making a double negative effect. While such LS and Mods
> reflect my thoughts while reading the comics (How does the Flash
> avoid burning up his clothes?), I don't think the Hero System actually
> requires them in the write up.
The Lim would be kind of cheesy since you would then spend 3 points
to counteract a in all likely greater lim.
> At 02:12 PM 1/20/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
> >
> >LS: High Speed Friction (keeps the character's body (and clothing) from
> >taking damage from running at such high speeds) for 3 pts. (doesn't affect
> >people they're carrying)
> >
> >LS: Can breathe at high speeds (cost as per breathe in unusual environment)
I agree with Kirk in that I'm not into that much realism. I just figure the
character has protection against most of his powers. Though an argument
saying
that Personal Immunity is needed against EBs exists, but I don't like it.
There are a lot of effects for all sorts of characters that would wind up
hurting
themselves. In my gaming group, my speedster was pulling 440 G's when he did
a quick turn. In real life, that would turn someone into a thin paste.
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:09:02 -0600
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes (One line response - Slightly off topic)
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Logan Darklighter wrote:
>
>> >And don't forget the Doug Ramsey/Warlock team up. In one of the
Annuals,
>> >Warlock became powered armor for Doug. I thought it was perfect:I got
the
>> >brains, you've got the looks; let's make lots of money.
>>
>> Quick trivia point. Art Adams drew that particular armor based on one
that
>> appears in an actual anime show (and no it wasn't Gundam or Macross!)
Which
>> particular Anime show did he get the armor from? If anyone shows an
>> interest, I'll post the answer later.
>
>Dunno... sorta reminds me of Patlabor. And have you ever noticed all the
>*junk* Art stuffed into his books? The X-Men/Asgardian bit and the
>X-Men/New Mutants vs Mojo are filled with all sorts of little gags tucked
>away in the corners of panels.
Oh yes! That was the really fun thing about Art Adams. Trying to catch all
the injokes lying scattered about! See how many times he can fit Gumby and
Pokey into a book! ^_^
Oh -- and the suit was based off of one of the ones from _Vifam_, which is a
pretty obscure anime "giant robot" show from the early to mid 80's. ^_^
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:05:41 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Barrow wight
At 12:01 PM 1/21/99 -0600, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>I've been following your writeups with interest, if not great promptness,
>and finally looked at the barrow-wight writeup today. 'What' does the
>barro-wight's drain affect ?
Oops. Stun.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:07:41 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Speedster flavor
Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> Curt Hicks writes:
> >
> >
> > Somebody mentioned LS:Friction caused by High Speed....
> >
> > How would you actually buy an attack like that ?
> >
> I'd probably buy it as damage shield, with a limitation that it only affects
> things that I'm holding or are holding on to me, and only when moving at
> superspeed.
Mental failing on my part:
What's that attack when you grab somebody and rub the top of their
head real fast? That could be a good speedster attack.
(Well, a bit silly of course...)
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:12:27 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>
> > > What's wrong with that? There's no big Cuthulian monster that will
> > >show up for mentioning that.
> > >
> > > Linked, linked, linked.
> > >
> > > There, I said it, and noth....
> >
> > GM rolls 1d100 for sanity loss for everyone on the list that witnesses Mr.
> > Gilberg's untimely, horrifying end...
>
> When the evil witch Ursla monstered out into a half-human half-octopus in
> "Little Mermaid" did anyone else have the reaction I did?
> Said reaction being, of course: SAN CHECK!
I had a delayed reaction. I practically jumped out the window when I met my
wife's aunt. I swear some Disney animator saw her and modeled Ursula off
her. She still gives me the heebie jeebies. And now I'm going through them
again.
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:04:34 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Point balance vs. Power balance
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
>> > Who is on this list who doesn't care about point
>> > balancing the heroes?
>
>A small minority opinion here:
<snip>
>The Justice League of Alabama campaign was described
>from the start as a hearkening back to the days when
>giants like Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter were
>on the same team as Batman and Green Arrow.
>
>Character concepts, not numbers, were it's tenets.
I've played games like this. The quality varies enormously with the quality
of the players.
The best was one where I played "Muscles the Gorilla", who was a recurring
NPC in the GMs campaigns before I knew him. An exceptionally large
genetically enhanced gorilla, Muscles was secretly an agent for a strange,
shadowy (but good) presence known only as "Mother". He was as smart as an
enhanced gorilla could get (borderline human genius), was stronger than most
gorillas ever would get, immortal, and had more skill in martial arts than
the GMs campaign guidelines allowed for most players. And never hit anyone
in all the time I played him.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:17:09 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Speedster flavor
At 10:07 AM 1/21/99 -0800, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Curt Hicks writes:
>> >
>> >
>> > Somebody mentioned LS:Friction caused by High Speed....
>> >
>> > How would you actually buy an attack like that ?
>> >
>> I'd probably buy it as damage shield, with a limitation that it only
affects
>> things that I'm holding or are holding on to me, and only when moving at
>> superspeed.
>
>Mental failing on my part:
>What's that attack when you grab somebody and rub the top of their
>head real fast? That could be a good speedster attack.
>(Well, a bit silly of course...)
>
>-Mark Lemming
>
A Super Noogie?! *cover my head*
Oh the humanity...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:02:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hayden <mhayden@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
> -We- are not doing anything. I am writing them up as I see fit.
> Though I am now curious as to the other interpretations.
IIRC, the ICE/Rolemaster write-ups were notoriously overextrapolated and
overpowered for the sake of making LoME a flashier, more playable FRPG. No
serious Tolkien scholars -- not even the Tolkien estate itself -- accept
them as representative of the the actual characters.
Having seen both (Scott's and Rolemaster's), I personally think Scott's
are better...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael D. Hayden -- mhayden@silverhammer.org -- http://silverhammer.org/
Hey, I use Procmail with Spam Bouncer, so spam away! (^_^)
"What you are about to see is real. These are not actors; they're directors."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:38:03 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: Hastur
><FSSSSHHHHH>
>
>"This game has been called on account of technical difficulties."
Beautiful, just beautiful.
Gotta love old MU, my first alma matter.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:31:09 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Killing and Expectations
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
<snip>
>
>That's the one thing I didn't like about the Gilt Complex, from an early
>AC. They were set up so a character who was trying not to kill them
>still could (with that Takes BODY from Ego Attacks lim). Of course, the
>storyline had the G.C. going against a "character" who had bought darn
>near every combat power in the book, but it still doesn't seem fair.
Agreed. Since the idea was that they were to plonk players whose characters
who were overdone in the power department, slamming everyone right and left,
I understand the desire to get them for 12d6 Ego Attacks. However, I don't
think that was the way to do it.
In my campaign, I'd simply make some people who took so much STUN that they
were in the "GM's option" range stay unconscious for _days_, in a coma and
being fed through tubes, if I needed to get that message through to someone.
That would get that message across, especially when the hero's reputation
starts to suffer due to "excessive force", or if someone had a heart attack
from the pain, or if someone doesn't wake up at all....
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:39:03 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: You know you're a good GM when...
From: Lisa Hartjes <beren@unforgettable.com>
>... you get an email from someone who went to your website, asking if one
of
>the news items for your pbem game is true. :)
You are a large, bearded, 40-year-old ex-Marine, talking to a 20-year-old
rather whimpy man, but everyone buys it that you are a sexy blonde bimbo and
he's the seven-foot-tall sentient gorilla you are flirting with. (Note: I
was the gorilla.)
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:08:25 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Bad Habits of Poor Gamers
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
<snip>
>>Then why, Wayne, does Cyclops hold back the full-force of his optic
blasts? Why
>>does Superman pull his punch when hitting normals (or even most
supervillains)?
>>Why does Batman not beat the living $#!+ out of muggers and thugs, leaving
them
>>comatose?
>>
>
>First off, because they're extreme cases; Cyclops is not a 12D6 EB in his
>setting; he's probably more like an 18D6, given the variety of an energy
>blasters in his setting; he's high end even for the superhero setting.
>Superman is even more so. And I've yet to notice Batman ever pull a punch
>or even indicate he was doing so when fighting badguys; if he has, it's
>never been in anything I've seen.
It has been stated that Spiderman regularly pulls his punches with anyone
who he is not certain can take his full strength. In the past this has
included the Kingpin, who is about as tough as a normal human can get. This
is presented as a partial explanation as to why the Kingpin can be dangerous
fighting barehanded someone ten times as strong and fast as he is, and
tougher, to boot.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 12:51:35
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Character: Denethor
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:34:46 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>Denethor II, Last Ruling Steward of Gondor
>
>8 STR -2
I'd put this up at 13 or more - after all, doesn't he show the
Fellowship that he goes around in chainmail?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:47:04 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
>At 03:09 AM 1/21/99 +1000, Lockie wrote:
>>idea for slippery floors, stop me if you've heard this one, suggested by
one
>>of my players. Martial throw, ae, continuous, uncontrolled. neh??
>>
>
>We use Running (or gliding), UAO.
And I prefer DEX Suppress, AE, not vs. flying characters, using the negative
characteristics rules from the Hero System Almanac 1. If you're good enough,
you don't fall down, but you take negatives, if your DEX is exceeded, you
can barely function, and sometimes fail (fall down), and if your DEX is
exceeded by enough, you are helpless. Seems to fit well.
And, yes, we have heard it before. This has been beaten to death, and
everyone has their own preferences.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:12:39 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Hero Creator: Life Support
There doesn't appear to be any way to give Life Support any advantages or
limitations, as you can do with the other powers. Is there areason for
this, or just a mistake (mine or theirs)? Anybody know about a workaround?
Guy Hoyle
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
- --Charles Fort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 20:49:48
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: More Triggered Questions
On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:56:53 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>If I cast a Triggered power on something 3 times (for instance), and set
>them all to go off with the same trigger (for instance, when I say
>"Shazam!"), will they all go off on the same phase?
Yes.
> Doesn't this interfere
>with the "one attack per phase" rule?
No, because your 'attack' is the casting of the power
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:00:37 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Speedster flavor
Normally a noogie; for a speedster, that would be a super-noogie or a
hyper-noogie
- ----------
> From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
> To: hero-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Speedster flavor
> Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 12:07 PM
>
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > Curt Hicks writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Somebody mentioned LS:Friction caused by High Speed....
> > >
> > > How would you actually buy an attack like that ?
> > >
> > I'd probably buy it as damage shield, with a limitation that it only
affects
> > things that I'm holding or are holding on to me, and only when moving
at
> > superspeed.
>
> Mental failing on my part:
> What's that attack when you grab somebody and rub the top of their
> head real fast? That could be a good speedster attack.
> (Well, a bit silly of course...)
>
> -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 13:41:01
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trigger Question
On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:40:30 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>When you use a power with Trigget, can this power be reused immediately, or
>do you have to wait until the trigger is set off?
Immediately.
>If it can be used before the trigger is set off, how do you keep people from
>having hundreds of precast attacks ready to go off?
This is up to the GM. For example, IMC a potion is a Triggered Effect,
but has a required casting time of 1 day+
>If you have to trigger the power before it can be used again, how can you
>simulate things like potions, which can be made in multiple doses at a time,
>and which typically use triggers to activate them?
Use Charges.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:07:32 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
Michael Hayden said:
>Having seen both (Scott's and Rolemaster's), I personally think Scott's
>are better...
There'll be a little something extra in your paycheck this week, Mike.
:-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:14:59 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Elrond
ELROND HALF-ELVEN
15 STR 5
18 DEX 24
13 CON 6
13 BODY 6
20 INT 10
20 EGO 20
23 PRE 13
18 COM 4
4 PD 1
5 ED 2
5 SPD 22
11 REC 10
40 END 7
50 STUN 22
Characteristics Cost: 152
6 Life Support,immune to disease,immune to aging
6 +2 Enhanced Perception,with all senses
5 Ultraviolet Vision
3 Ultrasonic Hearing
10 Eidetic Memory
4 +2" Running
4 WF,Common Melee,Common Missile
16 2 Levels,all combat
6 2 Levels: Swords,tight group
20 2 Levels,all skills (Shown in parentheses, below)
3 Conversation 14- (16-)
9 High Society 17- (19-)
7 Navigation 13- (15-)
9 Oratory 17- (19-)
7 Paramedic 15- (17-)
3 Persuasion 14- (16-)
3 Riding 13- (15-)
9 Survival 14- (16-)
11 Tactics 17- (19-)
3 Tracking 13- (15-)
1 TF,Boats
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Quenya,native,literacy
4 Lang: Sindarin,imitate dialects,literacy
2 Lang: Adunaic,fluent w/accent,literacy
2 Lang: Westron,fluent w/accent,literacy
3 Scholar
6 KS: Eldar History 17- (19-)
4 KS: Dunadan History 15- (17-)
4 KS: History of MiddleEarth 15- (17-)
10 KS: Councils of the Wise 21- (23-)
7 KS: Minions and Powers of Sauron 18- (20-)
3 Traveler
7 AK: Imladris 18- (20-)
4 AK: Eriador 15- (17-)
2 AK: Lindon 13- (15-)
2 KS: Beleriand 13- (15-)
3 Well-Connected
6 16- Contact: Gandalf
4 14- Contact: Galadriel and Celeborn
4 14- Contact: Aragorn
4 14- Contact: Elladan
4 14- Contact: Elrohir
3 13- Contact: Cirdan
2 12- Contact: Thranduil
2 12- Contact: Radagast
1 11- Contact: Gwaihir
100 1,000 250-point Followers
15 Money,filthy rich
250 Variable Power Pool (200-point pool), OIF (the ring Vilya) ,
restricted type of powers ("Air Magic"),
no skill roll required,Extra Time,time: 1 turn,
Use of 'Active' Powers may draw the attention of Sauron
40 Package,"Elven Mail",OIF
(18) 9/9 Armor
(2) Life Support,safe in heat/cold
(10) 25% Damage Reduction (PD),resistant
(10) 25% Damage Reduction (ED),resistant
26 Package," Angolas (Sword)",OAF
(14) 2D6+1 Killing Attack HTH,STR Min 13
(7) 3 Levels,related group
(5) +10 Presence
Powers Cost: 673
Total Cost: 825
Base Points: 75
15 Distinctive Features,"Elda Lord",concealable,major
10 Watched,"Sauron",more powerful,noncombat influence,harsh,
appear 8 -
5 Watched,"The Wise",as powerful,noncombat influence,mild,
appear 8-
15 Psychological Limitation,"Committed to Opposing Sauron",
common,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Protective of Elves and Rangers",
common,strong
10 Psychological Limitation,"Longs for Valinor and the sea",
uncommon,strong
10 Reputation,"Mighty Elda Lord",occur 8-,extreme reputation
15 Secret ID,"Bearer of the Ring Vilya"
655 Homely House Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 750
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 825
The son of Earendil and Elwing, Elrond was born in Avernien fifty-eight
years before the end of the First Age. He was taken prisoner by the sons
of Feanor when they sacked Avernien, but then befriended Maglor and was
his standard-bearer in the Great Battle.
At the end of the First Age, the Valar allowed Elrond and his twin brother
Elros to choose their races, whether to be of the deathless eldar or to accept
the Gift of Death and become human. Elrond chose to become eldar and
was gifted with great wisdom and grace. Elros went on to lead the surviving
Edain to Numenor and become the first king of the Dunedain.
During the Second Age, Elrond lived in Lindon with Gil-Galad until Second
Age 1695, when he was sent to Eregion to help defend that realm against
Sauron. It was at this time that Celebrimbor, king of Eregion, gave him
Vilya, the greatest of the Three Elven Rings for safekeeping. When Eregion
was overrun in 1697, Elrond fled with the few surviving Noldor and founded
Imladris (Rivendell). During the War of the Last Alliance of Men and Elves,
Elrond was Gil-Galad's standard bearer.
In Third Age 100, he married Celebrian, daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn.
They had three children: Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen. Throughout the rest
of the Third Age, Elrond gave refuge and counsel to the line of Isildur and
the rangers. At the end of the Third Age, he sailed over the sea with the
Last Riding of the Keepers of the Ring.
Elrond is among the wisest and most open of all the elven-lords, and is
central in the tale of The Lord of the Rings for his direction, with Gandalf,
of the resistance to Sauron.
NOTES:
1) The Followers include many 150-point Silvan elves and not a few 350-
point Noldo.
2) The 'Active' powers mentioned in connection with Vilya are anything
other than defensive spells or spells local to Imladris.
3) The sword Angolas (Iron-leaf) I made up. It's there for completeness,
Ditto for his magical chainmail.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:52:09 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Creator: Life Support
At 02:12 PM 1/21/99 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>There doesn't appear to be any way to give Life Support any advantages or
>limitations, as you can do with the other powers. Is there areason for
>this, or just a mistake (mine or theirs)? Anybody know about a workaround?
In Creation Workshop, when I call up Life Support (or any other Power
without built-in Options) there's a button at the bottom marked "Options."
I click that, and it opens up into a dialog where I can stick stuff like
Advantages, Limitations, and so forth.
I would assume that Hero Creator works the same.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:25:55 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Elrond
At 04:20 PM 1/21/99 -0600, Donald Tsang wrote:
>note that overall levels don't exactly increase "all skills" instead,
>you can distribute the levels between your CV and skills as desired each
>phase. If two skills must be used together, you can't put all your
>levels in both.
I get it.
Which is why I listed the numbers in parentheses, rather than merely
upping each skill by two.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:10:36 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
>Scott Nolan nolan@erols.com 1/20/99 4:51 PM
>
>>At 01:41 PM 1/20/99 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>>>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>>>
>>>> However, that wasn't because of his own powers, that was because he had
the
>>>> Ring of Fire, one of the three Rings of Power given to the elves.
>
>I wouldn't be so sure. On Caradhras Gandolf kindles fire and declairs:
>
>"If there are any to see, then I at least am revealed to them...I have
>written
>Gandolf is Here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to Anduin."
>
>Gandolf's capacity with fire magic is well documented and, from the
>foregoing,
>seems to be independent of Narya. While Narya no doubt enhanced his
>natural
>abilities, fire magic was his independent of the ring whose power he was
>lothe to use anyway.
How do you know that these fires weren't created by the ring, and that this
wasn't how Gandalf was revealed to his enemies? True, the ring was "hidden"
from the view of Sauron, but so was Gandalf. Sauron must have wanted him
pretty badly, but obviously couldn't lay his hands on him. Maybe the ring
was "hidden" by being in the possession of a powerful wandering wizard whose
location cannot be precisely determined, and, if found, will be gone before
you can muster the power to destroy him and capture the ring. The book
seemed to imply that Gandalf, like Aragorn, often went places in disguise,
or at least anonymity.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:13:19 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Note on Elrond
John's comment reminded me of something I meant to put into
Elrond's writeup, but forgot. In Elrond, as in Aragorn, flows the
blood of all three Houses of the Eldar, at least two of the Houses
of the Edain, and through Melian, of the maiar.
Elrond is, as the kids say, a bad dude.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:28:45 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [crossworlds] Re: In Search Of New Stuff
At 09:38 AM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Also I would like to share with this group information about my Dark Aeon
>project, which I hope will be published. I'll do that hopefully this
>weekend, but I would like to add it to the list of worlds presented on
>Crossworlds. The whole world won't be up on the web, but the info on the
>web sould supplement the stuff in the book.
>
I like this for two reasone:
1) This is your baby, John, and I have no proplem plugging your stuff here.
2) I think we should do this for anybody (within reason). If TSR wants us
to put up some support for Forgotten Realms that they've got, and they're
willing to pay our cost for the extra web space, I say we do it. (Not that
I believe that would ever happen)
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
Roving bands of well-paid craftsmen fitted two extra beads to abacuses and
sorted it out.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 18:10:29 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Character: Elrond
Scott Nolan nolan@erols.com 1/21/99 5:14 PM
>ELROND HALF-ELVEN
>16 2 Levels,all combat
> 6 2 Levels: Swords,tight group
>20 2 Levels,all skills (Shown in parentheses, below)
This seems to be the standard for "highly skilled" with these
characters (I could be wrong). Given Elrond's extensive
battlefield experience (All the wars of the Second Age, his
own battles during the Third), I'd give him 4 levels.
>3 Well-Connected
>6 16- Contact: Gandalf
>4 14- Contact: Galadriel and Celeborn
>4 14- Contact: Aragorn
>4 14- Contact: Elladan
>4 14- Contact: Elrohir
>3 13- Contact: Cirdan
>2 12- Contact: Thranduil
>2 12- Contact: Radagast
>1 11- Contact: Gwaihir
I'd add:
2 8- Contact: Tom Bombadil
While we don't see this in TLoR, Elrond certainly knew him,
as did all the wise, and if a problem involved the Old Forest,
Tom could certainly play a part.
>250 Variable Power Pool (200-point pool), OIF (the ring Vilya) ,
> restricted type of powers ("Air Magic"),
> no skill roll required,Extra Time,time: 1 turn,
> Use of 'Active' Powers may draw the attention of Sauron
I'm not sure I buy how this is modeled. Elrond's powers extended
beyond the "Air" school, in particular he was able to raise the
River Bruinen which was "at his command" and the running horses
and winds in the rising are claimed by Gandolf as his own work.
Also, Elrond was 1/16th Maia. Given the power inherant in the
Anuir, I tend to think Elrond's power was far more innate than
this pool setup represents.
In general, I think the Elven Rings (actually all the Rings)
functioned far more as REALLY MASSIVE Aids defined at the +2
level as "Enhancing the Charaters Esential Nature", obviously
under strict GM observation.
Also, the elements for which the Rings are named seem more
symbolic,IMHO, than literal. The Ring of Fire represents the
capacity to kindle hope and courage, "firey" emotions, the Ring
of Water represents rejuvenation and life as represented in
unchanging Lorien and the Ring of Air wisdom and long sightedness.
Each came into the posession of one whose needs and aims
corresponded most closely with it own nature (which is consistant
with how magic seems to work in Middle Earth).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:12:33 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Killing and Expectations
><digging out that issue> With base CVs of 10 each, the cops might have
>had trouble hitting them, but if they did ... Goldrush is the only one
>who could have taken a 1d6 KA pistol shot, assuming he had his force
>field up. The other two would have been bleeding with one average shot,
>dying with two.
And God help them if the cops had used shotguns, assuming they'd need the
firepower because these were supers.
>
>The base idea was OK, the execution was off. I don't mind showing
>characters just what their megablast/megapunch can do, but the Gilt
>Complex went too far.
In my opinion, far too typical of Dennis Malonee's approach to things.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:10:07 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Elrond
At 06:10 PM 1/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Scott Nolan nolan@erols.com 1/21/99 5:14 PM
>
>>ELROND HALF-ELVEN
>>16 2 Levels,all combat
>> 6 2 Levels: Swords,tight group
>>20 2 Levels,all skills (Shown in parentheses, below)
>
>This seems to be the standard for "highly skilled" with these
>characters (I could be wrong). Given Elrond's extensive
>battlefield experience (All the wars of the Second Age, his
>own battles during the Third), I'd give him 4 levels.
Possibly. Although I tend to think he was more of a commander
than a warrior. Hence his high Tactics skill.
>>3 Well-Connected
>>6 16- Contact: Gandalf
>>4 14- Contact: Galadriel and Celeborn
>>4 14- Contact: Aragorn
>>4 14- Contact: Elladan
>>4 14- Contact: Elrohir
>>3 13- Contact: Cirdan
>>2 12- Contact: Thranduil
>>2 12- Contact: Radagast
>>1 11- Contact: Gwaihir
>
>I'd add:
>2 8- Contact: Tom Bombadil
>
>While we don't see this in TLoR, Elrond certainly knew him,
>as did all the wise, and if a problem involved the Old Forest,
>Tom could certainly play a part.
I just don't buy it. TB was a largely solitary guy. Elrond certainly
knew of him, but I can't see buying the contact.
>>250 Variable Power Pool (200-point pool), OIF (the ring Vilya) ,
>> restricted type of powers ("Air Magic"),
>> no skill roll required,Extra Time,time: 1 turn,
>> Use of 'Active' Powers may draw the attention of Sauron
>
>I'm not sure I buy how this is modeled. Elrond's powers extended
>beyond the "Air" school, in particular he was able to raise the
>River Bruinen which was "at his command" and the running horses
>and winds in the rising are claimed by Gandolf as his own work.
>
>Also, Elrond was 1/16th Maia. Given the power inherant in the
>Anuir, I tend to think Elrond's power was far more innate than
>this pool setup represents.
>
>In general, I think the Elven Rings (actually all the Rings)
>functioned far more as REALLY MASSIVE Aids defined at the +2
>level as "Enhancing the Charaters Esential Nature", obviously
>under strict GM observation.
>
>Also, the elements for which the Rings are named seem more
>symbolic,IMHO, than literal. The Ring of Fire represents the
>capacity to kindle hope and courage, "firey" emotions, the Ring
>of Water represents rejuvenation and life as represented in
>unchanging Lorien and the Ring of Air wisdom and long sightedness.
>Each came into the posession of one whose needs and aims
>corresponded most closely with it own nature (which is consistant
>with how magic seems to work in Middle Earth).
Well, there you got me. I think your comments are solid. This
will be looked at when I do my final drafts (to which I won't subject
the list).
BTW: "Gandalf" and "Ainur"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:52:51 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
From: Steven J. Owens <puff@netcom.com>
<snip>
> My favorite "written" superhero work is David Brin's _Thor Meets
>Captain America_, from his _River of Time_ anthology. No, the
>characters are not based on Marvel's, nor are they set in a Marvel
>universe, but I think the story gets at the underlying resonance
>between comic books and readers. Give it a read. I'd love to see a
>similar approach to Batman.
A man of good taste, I see.:)
My favorite part of that story is that, since the Norse gods back Nazi
Germany, Loki must aid the Allies.:)
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 18:42:03 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
Filksinger filkhero@usa.net 1/21/99 6:10 PM
>>From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
>>I wouldn't be so sure. On Caradhras Gandolf kindles fire and declairs:
>>
>>"If there are any to see, then I at least am revealed to them...I have
>>written Gandolf is Here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to
>>Anduin."
>How do you know that these fires weren't created by the ring, and that this
>wasn't how Gandalf was revealed to his enemies?
Ultimately, I don't. However if the Ring was what created the fire, it
should have been revealed. Gandolf's statement seems to imply that he
personally, whom no one but Cirdan knew possed Narya, had been revealed.
Also, only a few weeks later Frodo immediately recognized the Ring of
Water
when its power is used in the Mirror of Galadriel. He does NOT recognize
Gandolf's ring on Caradhras, which I interprite to mean that the Ring
itself
was not in actual use.
>True, the ring was "hidden" from the view of Sauron, but so was Gandalf.
>Sauron must have wanted him pretty badly, but obviously couldn't lay his
>hands on him. Maybe the ring was "hidden" by being in the possession of
>a powerful wandering wizard whose location cannot be precisely determined,
>and, if found, will be gone before you can muster the power to destroy
>him and capture the ring.
The One remained hidden even in the possession of Hobbits. Since all the
Rings shared the same basic porperties, being variations on Sauron's
theme, it seems highly unlikely that Gandolf was what cloaked Narya.
More likely it was the subtile nature of elven magic that hid the Three.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:55:15 -0600
From: Trevor Gunther <gunthert@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
As I recall, Batman left the JLA because they wouldn't help him invade Markovia
to rescue Lucius Fox. It had nothing to do with anyones attitude towards
killing.
Steven J. Owens wrote:
> Mitchel Santorineos writes:
>
> > This is a point I will have to disagree on. Batman does not mind if a
> > villain kills dies in his own plan, but he would never kill someone and
> > would do what he could to avoid the death.
> >
> > In the Ras Al Ghul story, Ras' escape takes him through the field of fire.
> > If he hadn't taken that route there would have been no problem.
>
> Did you read the comic in question or are you basing this on my
> comments? If the latter, I was trying to summarize briefly, but in
> point of fact Ras' shuttle took through the field of fire, whereupon
> Batman pressed the button that activated the weapon, in the process
> mightily pissing off some of the other heroes. In fact, dredging my
> memories this was the spark that resulted in Batman leaving the JLA
> and starting the Outsiders.
>
> Steven J. Owens
> puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #154
*****************************
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Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:13 PM