Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 163
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 5:12 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #163
champ-l-digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 163
In this issue:
Re: Gun Damage
Gods...
Re: [Re: How much damage should guns do.]
Re: A painful question
Re: Levels and Limitations
Alternative bits and pieces
My thought on guns after your comments
Re: Levels and Limitations
Re: A painful question
Re: A painful question
Re: Levels and Limitations
Re: A painful question
RE: Gun Damage
Re: Levels and Limitations
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
RE: How much damage should guns do.
Re: Levels and Limitations
Re: Gun Damage
Re: Levels and Limitations
Short Games (was Re: A painful question)
Re: A painful question
Re: Short Games (semi-long)
Re: A painful question
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: How much damage should guns do.
Re: Multipower Questions
EGYPTOID.CHA file
Re: Gun Damage
Character: Frodo Baggins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Jan 1999 23:21:20 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Damage
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"TV" == Thomas Vickers <redroach@sprynet.com> writes:
TV> First off, there are several custom made handguns that are chambered
TV> for things like .50 rounds. That my friends is a machine gun round.
TV> Not even a rifle.
Wrong. It is a .50 Magnum, not the .50 Browning MG.
Unless you are talking about the one I think you are, which was a clever
hoax but still a hoax. The photographs are of a well-made mockup.
TV> Of course it is a custom gun, made in Canada I think, For grizzly
TV> protection.
A friend of mine's grandpa uses a .44 Magnum in that capacity. In his
words, 'a definitive argument winner'. He's a voulunteer ranger up in
northern Maine.
[...]
TV> To get realistic damage for something like a plasma rifle or laser
TV> rifle, I had them doing damage listed for a 120mm cannon in DI.
TV> Is there a fix for this?
Don't use Hero for this type of game? Or else live with the fact that
coherent energy weapons are devestating.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:55:22 -0600
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net>
Subject: Gods...
I once designed a character who was Odin, I didn't say, oh he is a god an go
nuts with points, In fact I made the "value" of his eratic dark prophecies
equate to the point cost of his lost eye for instance. I will have to dig it
out of my notes.
Norse gods were very mortal and seem like they would make a good genre for
HERO/Champions
Lancelot
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jan 1999 23:15:21 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: How much damage should guns do.]
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"AV" == ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net> writes:
AV> Then there must have been an epidemic of broken wrists in the 80's
AV> when silhouette shooting was so popular. Those pistols were
AV> chambered for all manner of rifle rounds.
Two things. One, they fire underpowered versions of the same cartridge.
Two, the weapons themselves are much larger and heaver than the regular
crop of handguns, and are loaded with all sorts of recoil compensation
gimmicks.
That said, I feel the need to point out that I got a chance to fire a
Walther PPK chambered for .380 at a local range a few years ago. .380 is
larger than the PPK's standard .25ACP, but is considered 'useless' by
modern standards. It is a seriously underpowered load for any sort of
combat use. On the other hand, the PPK is a small, light handgun.
After 6 rounds my hand hurt so bad I could barely hold the weapon. I
cleared the range and traded for one of the big frame Colt double action
revolvers chambered for .22 LR. The weapon hardly moved when I fired.
Aside from the fact that I learned that I hate double action revolvers
(and, in fact, revolvers in general) I could have plinked targets all day.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:30:09 -0600
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net>
Subject: Re: A painful question
The 75 points was just real full blown skills in gurps even a relatively normal
college grad in real
life terms came out to be 100 points at a virtual minimum (The point system is
obviously not
scaled the same as in Hero)
D+D got picked on because it didnt simulate(provide any system for) even basic
survival skills (like swimming)
I know full grown adults who would be hard pressed to ride a bike, and ones who can
quote names of classic music but have no clue about popular music. I guess heros
can do anything if it isnt combat oriented and nothing combat oriented unless they
pays for it yes ;) that actually simulates James Bond rather well.
Wayne Shaw wrote:
> >Yes true HEROs arent what this game emulates ;) if you want an exercise... of
> >this sort try it with a real life person and includes skills like bike riding,
> >mushroom hunting and popular music, the points could get crazy, I havent
> done it
> >with HERO yet but have in GURPS hehehe, If I remember correctly the cost of
> >Graduating with a Bachelors from College was on the order of 75 pts in Gurps.
>
> Well, for the most part Hero ignores minor skills of that nature and/or
> emulates them with Intelligence rolls.
>
> And full blown heroes can be done quite well with Heroic scale characters;
> it's just not assumed every Secret Service agent, policeman or private eye
> you meet are built on those kind of points.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:03:12 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
At 10:53 PM 1/25/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>"N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
>N> 1) You can't limit anything smaller than a 5-pt level anyway.
>
>Tell that to the guy what brought up the idea of putting limitations on
>2-point and 3-point skill levels.
Although both Aaron Allston and Steve Long have gone ahead and done it
anyhow (for 3-point levels). Cf. NINJA HERO and/or THE ULTIMATE MARTIAL
ARTIST, weapon creation rules.
- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:03:03 +0800
From: "Colin aka Arkham aka the God King" <astroboy@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Alternative bits and pieces
This message appears to have been fouled by my mail client so if it gets
through twice - my apologies.
Given all the debate on alternatives to the speed chart I thought I draw
attention to my own alternative at :
http://www.iinet.net.au/~astroboy/Hero/initaitive.html
Theirs a few bits and pieces of other Hero stuff around on my website as
well. Be sure to check them out while you're there :)
********************************************************
Colin Clark
http://www.iinet.net.au/~astroboy
********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:44:12 -0800
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: My thought on guns after your comments
First I have to cop to an error in my original post, a 7.62 Nato round does
not have an order of magnitude more muzzle energy than a .50 Cal Pistol
round (it's ability to penetrate is close to that though, that's what I get
for posting when I didn't want to go dig for my reference material). The
7.62 Nato has about twice the muzzle energy of the .50 pistol, so the 7.62
comes out at 2.5D6 and that isn't nearly as disruptive to continuity (hey
2.5d6 +1 stun is 12DC). Now, the general thought is that the big
advantage to rifles is their greater ability to penetrate (rifles tend to
fire smaller harder bullets at a higher velocity that pistols so they make
smaller woulnd channels but blow straight thru (unless the bullet hits
bone, pistol bullets break bones, rifle bullets shatter bone into fragments
and the fragments then tear thru the flesh aroung them)).
So what does every body think about:
Light Armor piercing, +1/4 Advantage, the attack goes against 3/4
of the targets defense.
And then apply that to all rifles.
Oh and I've been buying 3 round burst as a 1/2 advantage (same as 5 round
autofire) as the disadvantage of not geting the fourth and fith hit is
about equal to the advantage of not wasting 2 rounds of ammo that you will
seldom hit with.
Max Callahan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:14:56 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
ANTHONY VARGAS wrote:
> Well, levels that aply only to a specific weapon would be 2 points...
> 3 if it was some kind of multi-function weapon.
What is meant here by specific weapon? Are you restricting it to the
level of "I have four 2 point levels with THIS colt-45" or "I have four
2 point levels with ANY colt-45"? There is a big difference here.
If the former, then putting them into a focus would not be a
limitation. As it stands now, it would cost extra for the effect which
is pointless. If, however, the latter, then it would be limiting to
have them OAF. Then it would be reasonable to allow 2 point levels in a
focus due to the effect that MY colt-45 has been worked over to make the
action very smooth, the sight altered for my preferred firing technique
and just a touch of extra weight in the handle for stability. All of
this gives me +3 OCV with this weapon. Give me any other colt, and I
would be back down to where everybody else is.
So (some of) you are saying that I should pay more for this bit of
characterisation?
Oh, by all means. Keep an eye on it. But thats what all these
crackerjack ref's are getting paid for.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:12:18 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: A painful question
>
>I know full grown adults who would be hard pressed to ride a bike, and ones
who can
>quote names of classic music but have no clue about popular music. I guess
heros
And you can find someone who falls outside the setup of any game system on
the market. Your point?
>can do anything if it isnt combat oriented and nothing combat oriented
unless they
>pays for it yes ;) that actually simulates James Bond rather well.
>
It's also easy to be sarcastic when you're responding to a statement more
broadly than it was made.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:35:27 EST
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: A painful question
In a message dated 99-01-25 12:04:54 EST, gilberg@ou.edu writes:
> >I see it as being inherently masochistic. I know *intellectually* that some
> >people get great enjoyment out of this, just as I know *intellectually*
> that
> >some people get great pleasure out of being tied to a post and flogged.
But
> >*emotionally* I Just Don't Get It.
>
> You don't play Call of Cuthulu, do you?
I did once play in a Call of Cuthulu game, on the strength of a GM promise
that it would "not be like" stereotypical CoC where the characters suffer an
irreversible slide into madness and dispair. (The GM lied, btw.)
> One thing was that we knew
> this was going to be a short campaign--all of our games in that group were
> short campaigns lasting from 3-8 sessions or so. But why would you assume
> that being less powerful than what is around you is equivalent to being
> flogged?
What do you have against being flogged? There are perfectly nice people out
there who enjoy being flogged, who derive great pleasure from it.
I haven't ever been flogged, so I can't say with absolute certainty that I
wouldn't enjoy it - but that's the way I'd bet. Pain hurts. It's unpleasant,
and I try to avoid it.
OTOH I *have* been in situtations where I've been the low being on the food
chain, where I was thrust into situtations that I was less than competent to
deal with. That was unpleasant too, and not an experience I would seek out for
entertainment.
>
> >The best thing for all involved is for me to steer clear of such games.
But
> >I'm touchy about any suggestion that these games are somehow "superior"
> >instead of just being a specialized aquired taste, and that my own
> preferences
> >for higher powered and 'brighter' games are immature, 'munckin' and
> inferior.
>
> And I wouldn't argue as such except for the fact that it seems to
be
> completely true in your case. By arguing that a game where one is
> lower-powered is equivalent to being flogged, you place yourself quite well
> into the munchkin camp. Some people can do just fine without cosmic power,
> thank you very much.
Why do you assume that being competent to deal with the situtations one faces
is equivalent to possessing cosmic power? By arguing that a game where one is
higher-powered is equivalent to immature munchkinism, you place yourself quite
well into the snob camp. Some people can do just fine without wallowing in the
lovely filth, thank you very much.
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:58:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Bryant Berggren wrote:
> >"N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
> >N> 1) You can't limit anything smaller than a 5-pt level anyway.
> >
> >Tell that to the guy what brought up the idea of putting limitations on
> >2-point and 3-point skill levels.
>
> Although both Aaron Allston and Steve Long have gone ahead and done it
> anyhow (for 3-point levels)
And 2 pt levels as well, at least for Ninja Hero. My guess is that they
thought that putting limitations only on the OCV levels (instead of
applying the same set of limitations to the entire weapon) would have made
things confusing and more complicated than necessary.
NH at least has several restrictions on when you can buy the 3 and 2-pt
levels, to help alleviate the possible abuses.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:09:28 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: A painful question
At 07:35 AM 1/26/1999 EST, ErolB1@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 99-01-25 12:04:54 EST, gilberg@ou.edu writes:
>I did once play in a Call of Cuthulu game, on the strength of a GM promise
>that it would "not be like" stereotypical CoC where the characters suffer an
>irreversible slide into madness and dispair. (The GM lied, btw.)
"Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"
-- Dennis the peasant, Monty Python & the Holy Grail
The silde into madness is pretty much inherent in the CoC system, in that
you will inevitably acquire Cthulhu Mythos knowledge in the long run just
by adventuring, and your character's maximum Sanity at any point is
whatever percentile score he started the game with, *minus* the percentile
score representing his level of Mythos knowledge. The more you learn, the
less sane it's possible for you to be. Play long enough and your character
*will* become a raving loony; he *may* have his disembodied brain carted
off to Pluto in an aluminum can, he *may* be hideously transformed into a
servant of the Outer Gods, he *may* die (or any combination of the above).
But the madness is a given. I love that game.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:26:45 -0500
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: RE: Gun Damage
The gun from Hard Boiled was a Thompson Contender, which comes in a variety of calibers. It's a single-shot breech-loading target pistol (for those out there who have never seen one).
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Surbrook [SMTP:susano@dedaana.otd.com]
> Sent: Monday, 25 January, 1999 23:14
> Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Gun Damage
>
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
> > >
> > >First off, there are several custom made handguns that are chambered for
> > >things like .50 rounds. That my friends is a machine gun round. Not even a
> > >rifle.
> > >Of course it is a custom gun, made in Canada I think, For grizzly
> > >protection.
> >
> > I really have to seriously wonder how someone could make a handgun that
> > could fire an actual .50 caliber machine gun round that wouldn't break a
> > human hand. You're not talking about the shortened .50 that the Desert
> > Eagle of that caliber fires, are you?
>
> Wasn't the bad guy in "Hard Target" carrying a single shot .50 pistol? A
> pistol that fired HMG rounds? Also, there is the single shot,
> berak-action pistol Mad Dog uses at one point towards the end of "Hard
> Boiled", I don't kow the caliber, but it looked big, and I know that John
> Woo liked to use real-world guns in his films.
>
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> A train station is where trains stop. A bus station is where buses stop.
> Well, I'm at a workstation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:52:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Tim Gilberg wrote:
> > > If you want a level with "blaster rifles," you take a 3 pt level.
> > > If you want a level with a specific blaster rifle, you take a 2 pt level.
> >
> > And if the level is inherent in the gun rather than a skill (i.e. the
> > rifle is more accurate) you take a 5-pt level and put OAF and Only for
> > Blaster Rifles on it.
>
> Why? The rules state that you can't put an OAF on levels worth
> less than 5 pts. As 2 pt levels apply here, you put them on and leave the
> lim off. Don't use a skill+lim to simulate what a skill already does.
Because with OAF, the skill is inherent in the gun.
Example 1: +1 level ranged (5) OAF only for blaster rifles: GunMan drops
his rifle. His sidekick Pistol Boy picks it up. When he fires it, he gets
the +1 OCV, because it's a part of the focus.
Example 2: +1 OAF blaster rifles (2): Gunman drops his rifle. Pistol Boy
picks it up. He doesn't get the +1 OCV. GunMan picks up another Blaster
Rifle. He gets the +1 OCV because the level is inherent to him and not
the weapon.
Different game-mechanical effects, different game-mechanical solution.
If I buy a standard 2-point level, explain to me what in the rules would
allow me to put that level into the rifle, so that /anyone/ who picks up
the rifle is more accurate with it. I can think of two ways: Universal
OAF and Usable By Others.
The first way...well, we'd have to use a 5 pt level. It's a universal OAF
(-1) and since it's a 5 pt level (i.e. with all ranged weapons) we also
need to limit it to 'only with this blaster rifle' for probably another
- -1.
The second way, we'd need to put Usable By One Other on the level, and
then limit /that/ with either OAF Blaster Rifle or 'Usable only to fire X
blaster rifle'.
Since the first involves standard use of limitations, and the second
involves putting a limitation on an advantage, I know a) which one I think
is easier and b) which one I'm going to use...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:29:04 -0500
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Tim Gilberg wrote:
>
> > What bugs me more, no pun intended, are newscasters who deride
> > programmers of the late 1960s and 1970s for beign shortsighted, lazy or
> > just plain stupid.
> >
> > <soapbox>
> [large cut]
> > </soapbox>
>
> Yeah, whatever. I know lazy when I see it. Lazy.
>
> :)
And, of course, we don't want to write code in a lazy way. Code should
be tested for ALL of the following:
- - That 2000 will be a leap year, and 2100 will not.
- - For Y10K. In fact, why stop there? What about Y1M?
- - Will work when the internal clock on your hardware wraps.
Of course, this will mean that 70% of the U.S. population will be
working as programmers to avoid long-distant events, and that 80% of all
code will be obsolete before it is released.
On second thought, maybe that's the case now.
;-) ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:04:20 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: How much damage should guns do.
At 04:31 PM 1/25/99 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>> >I got your muzzle velocity right here.
>> Oh, is that where it went? Can I have it back? Thanks.
>You guys should've muzzled this part of the thread :)
Hey, the only Muzzle I know is a psychotic rottweiler....
[Waits to see who recognizes the reference, if any....]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1999 10:56:17 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
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"BB" == Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> writes:
BB> Although both Aaron Allston and Steve Long have gone ahead and done it
BB> anyhow (for 3-point levels). Cf. NINJA HERO and/or THE ULTIMATE MARTIAL
BB> ARTIST, weapon creation rules.
At least in Ninja Hero, the skill levels in question do *NOT* have the
Focus limitation on them (I cannot say about UMA). They are 'focused' by
special effects only.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1999 10:54:37 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Gun Damage
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"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> writes:
MS> Also, there is the single shot, berak-action pistol Mad Dog uses at one
MS> point towards the end of "Hard Boiled", I don't kow the caliber, but it
MS> looked big, and I know that John Woo liked to use real-world guns in
MS> his films.
The complete .50 Browning MG (and the Soviet 12.7mm for that matter) round
is about 5 inches long. Most of that is cartridge, and most of *THAT* is
powder. You tell me if that is what he was firing.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:39:56 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
At 07:24 AM 1/25/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>> This would be fine except for the fact that the limitation is not
>>>at all limiting. Those levels are already only with the blaster rifle,
>>>taking a focus lim that says they work only with the blaster rifle is just
>>>free points.
>>
>> If the weapon is taken away and used by someone else, the Level(s)
>>bought through the Focus would go with it. Otherwise the owning character
>>keeps it.
>
>I think Rat's point is as follows:
>
> If the levels only apply to the rifle, if the rifle is taken away he can't
>use the levels anyway, as in a game that monitors points for equipment,
>chances are he won't have another available. At that point, putting them on
>the rifle is more limiting than having them himself in what fashion?
If you read the paragraph you responded to carefully, I think you'll
find the answer to your question right there. :-]
If you still have trouble seeing it, even with the explanations others
have given (and sometimes it legitimately is hard to notice the obvious,
even for perfectly intelligent people), just say so and I'll take the time
to spell it out for you plainly. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:25:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Short Games (was Re: A painful question)
> From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
>
> As for campaign types, I have just never liked (and this is completely
> personal taste) closed end short games.
>
> I run a Champs game that is 8 years long, I run an FH that has gone on
> 7 years, I play in a champs that is 7 years old, another that ran 6, and
> my wife's first campaign (starting with 1st edition) ran hers almost 10
> years before she decided she wanted to play full time. The six year
> campaign still seems short to me. ;)
>
Well I'm jealous. None of the campaigns I've played in were intended to be
closed*. They just die. We have enough problems just finding players that
will show up regularly or GMs that manage to come up with scenarios for
their once a month game sessions. How do you find players and GMs that are
that committed ?
Curt Hicks
*By 'closed' I assume you mean planned to end once certain campaign goals
are accomplished.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:33:41 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A painful question
Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> The silde into madness is pretty much inherent in the CoC system, in that
> you will inevitably acquire Cthulhu Mythos knowledge in the long run just
> by adventuring, and your character's maximum Sanity at any point is
> whatever percentile score he started the game with, *minus* the percentile
> score representing his level of Mythos knowledge. The more you learn, the
> less sane it's possible for you to be. Play long enough and your character
> *will* become a raving loony; he *may* have his disembodied brain carted
> off to Pluto in an aluminum can, he *may* be hideously transformed into a
> servant of the Outer Gods, he *may* die (or any combination of the above).
> But the madness is a given. I love that game.
It's a great game when run well. (That goes with most games actually.) One of
my favorite NPCs is an Ex-COC character. He would always roll his way out of
the most hopeless situation in CoC. I think he was the sole survivor of
several groups. After extrapolating his adventures, he's now the gardener
for the Hero team. Just don't try to see his face...
There's a lot of fun in playing games where it's tough to win. It's bad if
the GM is the type that makes sure you lose though. My early GM career, I
would beat the crap out of the PCs. It was mainly because I over-estimated
the heroes. Every once in awhile, the heroes would pull off a win. Which
gave them a sense of accomplishment. I'm much better now in power estimation.
I've also been in games where I felt like an ant on a sunny day. Then the GM
would come by with his magnifying glass...
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:45:00 -0700
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
Subject: Re: Short Games (semi-long)
Curt Hicks wrote:
> Well I'm jealous. None of the campaigns I've played in were intended to be
> closed*. They just die. We have enough problems just finding players that
> will show up regularly or GMs that manage to come up with scenarios for
> their once a month game sessions. How do you find players and GMs that are
> that committed ?
>
> Curt Hicks
>
> *By 'closed' I assume you mean planned to end once certain campaign goals
> are accomplished.
To be honest I have been _very_ lucky on the players front there. Our
group consists of me, my wife, and Mike (the GM of the Supers game I
play in), and two others. The first three have been the core group for
the last 7 years. We have had players move away, and we have an ad at
the local game shop for new players. When someone is iterested we warn
them that we expect people to show up evey week. And if someone knows
ahead of time that they cannot make it we cancel that week. Aside from
the holiday season we only loose 3 or so game sessions a year. We sort
of 'audition' new players- making sure that they like our style and vice
versa, and that they can commit to the every week thing.
The average age of the players is high 20's. I think that has something
to do with it. Now the makeup of the group is different than it was 6
years ago (aside from the core 3) but we genreally have a new player
interested within a month after someone leaves. We have had one or two
dry spells where it was just the three of us for a couple months, but
not many.
There is also the fact that, right now anyway, every single person has
GMed. We all trade off occosiaonly so no one burns out, keeping a
playing/GMing balance in there. I recently had finished a huge epic
crossover adventure and a starting a new sort of strange FH campaign...
then my work switched my schedule and I got very tired, and burned out,
so I called a halt to me GMing for a few months and one of the others
took over. I had been running the FH so he could take a break from the
crossover epic. That is one of the big helps there too. No burnout, and
we all keep good records, so it makes it easier to come back to a
campaign after a layoff.
And, yeah, by closed end, I meant a campaign that had a definate finish.
- -Mhoram
- --
What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed.
- -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 23:48:37
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: A painful question
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:40:29 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
>
>
>> A couple of us were
>>"famous figures" from history. (Pontius Pilot and Nostradamus.)
>
>
>Pontius Pilate.
>
>Normally, I wouldn't have said anything, but I am trying desperately to
>dispel the vision of a man in a toga, flying a fighter jet....
From 'Pass The Port Again' IIRC
Child handed in a drawing of a Nativity scene, complete with Jumbo and
Pontius the pilot...
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 19:26:58
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:23:52 -0600, Donald Tsang wrote:
>Rat said:
>>There used to be something called the 'common' slot limitation. If all of
>>your MP slots have different limitations, you could take the smallest total
>>bonus and apply it to the reserve. This went away with the fourth edition.
>
>I use the following house rule to preserve some of the "common slot lim",
>while reducing its abusability by, um, half:
>
> If all of the slots in a Multipower have limitations on the individual
> powers, you may take a "Variable Limitations" on the reserve equal to
> half the smallest limitation total on any of the slots, rounding down
> to the nearest 1/4.
This is a good idea.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 19:25:05
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:58:01 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>><<If you put the OAF on the pool, you don't have to buy it again for the
>>slots, but the -1 modifier will still apply.>>
>>
>>So, what you're saying is, that if you put the OAF limitation on the pool,
>>you don't buy the limitation again for each slot?
>
>In practice, yes. It's already assumed the whole Multipower is an OAF.
>There's been some debate in the past how multipowers _composed_ of entirely
>OAFs should normally be priced, since they're harder to take out than a
>single OAF would be.
My take on this is that the MP only gets the OAF if it's the same OAF.
This goes for some other limitations, too. Anyway, if it isn't the same
OAF, what are the powers doing in the same MP?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 00:00:51
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do.
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:33:56 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>>While I'm not familiar with the specific weapons you cite, I disagree.
>>>The advantage of the rifle is that it is far more accurate at range.
>>
>>This has always been my impression as well. I understood that a 9mm bullet
>>would do the same damage whether fired from a pistol or a rifle, and that
>>the rifle's only advantage was added range.
>>
>>So, Max, I think you want to compare the two types of ammunition, not the
>>two types of weapon. (I'm not sure that has any effect on your question,
>>though, it may be purely semantic.)
>
>Not really, while a rifle does have longer range and greater accuracy at
>range, the bullets in a pisol and rifle are not the same. the actual led
>ball is the same, but the cartrige has more powder and thus greater power
>and muzzel velocity. This translates into more energy and more damage.
>Thats why a 22 pistol is much less damaging than an M16 even though the
>actual hunk of lead is very similar in size (.22 vs .223)
Not at very short range. And remember that the volume of the hunk goes
with the cube, so it's 27% (1.03^3) more effective.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 00:09:25
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:03:58 -0800, Mark Lemming wrote:
>qts wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:27:07 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>>
>> >Say you have an archer character who carries six different types of arrows:
<snip>
>> >Now, this would seem to me to be a classic case of putting the charges on
>> >the multipower itself, since he's not restricted to a certain number of
>> >charges per arrow; however, the rules don't permit it.
>>
>> Don't they? Didn't spot anything in the HSR to say that. And if there
>> is, and you don't like it, change it.
>
>BBB (softbound) pg 115
>
>"Power Limitations may be applied to Multipowers. If the Limitation
>applies to a slot within the Multipower, then the Limitation serves to
>decrease the cost of the slot, but not the Multipower. If the Limitation
>is applied to the whole Multipower, then the Limitation reduces the cost
>of the point reserve and the slots. This is the only way that the Reserve
>can be Limited."
<Examples snipped>
I hadn't looked upon that paragraph that way, but yes, it does fit.
However, I suggest that my strophe still applies. :}
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:10:02 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: EGYPTOID.CHA file
A mere 75 pt follower? Now you've hurt my feelings. I'd much rather be
a contact with useful skills, that way I can go on believing I'm a 250
pt undercover superhero.
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Shit. now I have to change my EGYPTOID.CHA file.
>Are you about 50 or 75 pt follower?
><< fires up HeroMaker >>
>Or should you just be a Contact? ;)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Gun Damage
On 26 Jan 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> writes:
>
> MS> Also, there is the single shot, berak-action pistol Mad Dog uses at one
> MS> point towards the end of "Hard Boiled", I don't kow the caliber, but it
> MS> looked big, and I know that John Woo liked to use real-world guns in
> MS> his films.
>
> The complete .50 Browning MG (and the Soviet 12.7mm for that matter) round
> is about 5 inches long. Most of that is cartridge, and most of *THAT* is
> powder. You tell me if that is what he was firing.
Hmmm... good question. I don't think so, then. The round is big and I
know he drops it into the breech with two fingers... from that shot
(AFAIK) the round looks to be about 3" long or so. It might be larger,
but I can't remember exactly.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"And I, Susano, warrior-god of the Black Dragon Eye,
will teach you your proper place!!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:06:03 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Frodo Baggins
FRODO OF THE NINE-FINGERS, RING-BEARER
10 STR 0
16 DEX 18
16 CON 12
12 BODY 4
15 INT 5
18 EGO 16
15 PRE 5
10 COM 0
5 PD 3
3 ED 0
3 SPD 4
7 REC 4
36 END 2
35 STUN 10
Characteristics Cost: 83
13 1 LVL Shrinking,Always On,0 END Persistent
10 19 Mental Defense,Only v. Mind Control
1 WF,Swords
5 1 Levels,related group
3 Climbing 12-
3 Conversation 12-
3 Deduction 12-
3 Persuasion 12-
7 Stealth 14-
1 TF,Horses / Donkeys
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Hobbitish,native,literacy
1 Lang: Westron,fluent w/accent,literacy
2 Lang: Sindarin,fluent conversation,literacy
1 Lang: Quenya
7 AK: The Shire 16-
3 AK: Eriador 12-
1 AK: Middle-Earth 8-
5 KS: The Adventures of Bilbo 14-
4 KS: Hobbitish History 13-
3 KS: Stories and Legends 12-
3 Ambidexterity
2 11- Contact: Gandalf
2 11- Contact: Bilbo Baggins
5 Money
30 1 150-point Follower (Sam Gamgee)
38 Package,"Dwarven Mithril Chainmail Hauberk",OIF,unbreakable
(18) 9/9 Armor
(10) 25% Damage Reduction (PD),resistant
(10) 25% Damage Reduction (ED),resistant
27 Package,"Sting: Long Dagger of Gondolin",OAF,STR Min 5
(18) 1D6+1 Killing Attack HTH,x1 Armor Piercing,+1 Increased
Stun Multiplier
(9) Sense Orcs and Other Dark Servants, 360-degrees, +3
PER
45 Package,"The Phial of Galadriel",OAF,0 END
(30) 4D6 Aid,"to Ego",fade rate: per 5 minutes,Area Effect,radius
(15) 8" Change Environment,"Light"
0 Package,"The One Ring", IIF,unbreakable, 0 END Persistent
(64) Invisibility, Sight Group, no fringe
(840) 30D6 Aid, "to VPP", Continuous, Uncontrolled
(61) 15D6 Mind Control, telepathic contact, single command only,
Usable by Ring, not wearer
(19) 3D6 Suppress,"v. EGO",Only v. Wearer,Mental Defense acts as
Power Defense, Continuous, Uncontrolled
(3) Life Support: Does Not Age
Powers Cost: 232
Total Cost: 315
Base Points: 75
15 Distinctive Features,"Hobbit",not concealable,minor
20 Hunted,"Minions of Sauron",more powerful,harsh,appear 11-
10 Watched,"Gandalf",more powerful,noncombat influence,mild,
appear 11-
8 Watched,"The Wise",more powerful,noncombat influence,mild,
appear 8-
20 Psychological Limitation,"Driven to Finish Quest",common,
total
10 Psychological Limitation,"Tempted by Ring",common,moderate
10 Psychological Limitation,"Desires not to expose companions
to harm",common,moderate
15 Secret ID,"Bearer of the One Ring"
87 Underhill Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 240
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 315
Frodo Baggins is a hobbit, a member of a diminutive minor race
once spread throughout Eriador and the vales of Anduin, and now
mostly concentrated in and around a quiet corner of Eriador known
as "The Shire". Frodo is the only son of Drogo Baggins and Primula
Brandybuck, and the nephew of Bilbo Baggins.
Frodo was born in Third Age 2968 on 22 September. In 2980, his
parents died in a boating accident and he was adopted by his
famous uncle, Bilbo, and went to live with him in the manor at Bag End.
In 3001, when Bilbo left for Rivendell, Frodo inherited his possessions,
including both Bag End and the One Ring.
In 3018, Gandalf arrived and advised Frodo to travel to Rivendell under
the name of Mr. Underhill. Along the way, he was joined by Sam Gamgee,
Merry Brandybuck, Pippin Took and Aragorn. He was nearly slain by the
barrow-wight and the Lord of the Nazgul. At Rivendell, he volunteered to
take up the Quest of the Ring, to destroy the Ring at Orodruin in Mordor.
He was joined by Sam, Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas
and Gandalf.
They travelled together until Boromir tried to take the ring near Rauros,
when Frodo and Sam set out alone, pursued by Gollum. Frodo took
the ring into Mordor, and was able to resist its growing power with the
aid of the Phial given him by Galadriel. He was rescued by Sam from
the giant spider, Shelob, and from orcs.
On the slopes of Orodruin, Frodo was at last overcome by the Ring, and
decided to use it's power to remake the world, but Gollum bit his finger off
and fell into the magma at the Sammath Naur, destroying himself, the Ring
and Sauron.
After the War of the Ring, Frodo, wounded in body and spirit, returned to
The Shire and helped to take it away from the much-shrunken Saruman.
For the six months, he was the mayor of Michel Delving. Unable to enjoy
life with the pain of the Ring, Shelob's poison, and the morgul-knife, Frodo
at last passed over the sea with the Last Riding of the Keepers of the Rings
in 3021 at the age of fifty-three.
Frodo was a writer, and wrote the account of the War of the Ring and the
Quest of the Fellowship in the Red Book of Westmarch. During the War
of the Ring, he wore a shirt of mail which had been a gift to Bilbo from
the dwarves of Erebor, the elven long dagger "Sting", and the Phial of
Galadriel, in addition to the One Ring.
The Phial was a crystal jar which
contained water from Galadriel's spring. It caught and reflected the
light of Earendil's star, which was the light of a Silmaril, which had
caught the light of the Two Trees before the dawn of the First Age.
It brought courage and light in the darkness.
NOTES:
1) Frodo's high CON and BOD scores reflect the basic toughness of hobbits.
2) His Deduction skill is meant to reflect that Frodo was thoughtful, and very
insightful about everyone he met.
3) Frodo's AK:Eriador is not from travel, but from his ravenous appetite
for stories from beyond the Shire.
4) This characterization is meant to represent Frodo as he leaves the
Fellowship.
5) I have no idea how many points Sam will actually be. This is a guess.
6) The One Ring is over 1200 Active Points. The massive Aid will work
for anyone with a magical VPP. Yes, the Ring promised power to
Sam, Boromir and Frodo, but surprise, it was lying. Look what it did for
Smeagol: turned him into Gollum.
7) The One Ring's Mind Control influences people to seize and hold the Ring,
and if they are powerful, to try to control the world.
8) The anti-aging effect of the Ring is not benign. It does not grant more
life,
it merely "stretches thin" the life the wearer has. Witness the horrid
effects
on Smeagol. Perhaps this should be modelled as a very slight cumulative
Transform.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desire:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
William Shakespeare, Henry V
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #163
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