Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 168
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 6:04 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #168
champ-l-digest Friday, January 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 168
In this issue:
Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
Computers
Re: [OIHID and Focus]
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: Tolkien Characters (was: Frodo Baggins)
Re: EGYPTOID.CHA file
RE: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
Re: EGYPTOID.CHA file
Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
Re: Tolkien Characters (was: Frodo Baggins)
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: No Conscious Control
Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: My thought on guns after your comments
Power set question.
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: OIHID and Focus
Re: No Conscious Control
Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: A painful question
Re: AP, Penetrating, Piercing
Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: A painful question
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: Levels and Limitations (Oh, Mr. Long!)
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: Levels and Limitations
Character: Gandalf The Grey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:08:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Has anybody done a conversion from the Shadowrun magic system
to Hero ? I quite like a couple of the Shadowrun assumptions for
their system and have been idly thinking of how it would work in
Hero.
These are:
1) spell casting takes an amount of effort (drain) proportional to the
strength of the spell. this is charged against the mage's stun and then
his body. this drain can be resisted by willpower
2) mage's can allocate their spell casting ability so that they either
get more effect from their spell, or suffer less drain in other words,
a skilled wizard can cast a spell with less effort, or with greater effect.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:25:09 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
> >>Why the heck would you buy a multipower *this* way:
> > >
> > >30 Munchkin Power, OAF(-1)
> > >6u Cool Power #1
> > >6u Cool Power #2
> > >6u Cool Power #3
> >
This can't be a munchkin power. Not enough limitations. :-)
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:15:31 -0500 (EST)
From: blake1001@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) wrote:
>>I'd work him totally against type--Instead of making him on the cutting edge of technology and pop culture, I'd make him a throwback--a 'swing kid,' let's say, who prides himself on getting into the most secure installations in the world with his antique Mac set-up...... <<
Been there, am that.
Well, I don't dance , and it's an XT rather than a Mac, but same principle. ;)
- --- |
Blake 1001, Virtual Adept, Disciple ---|-.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1317 '-|---
|
- ---------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:00:30 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Computers
I'm building a computer hacker as a character in a sci-fi game I'm joining
in, and I need to build a computer, naturally. He belongs to a special
Covert Ops group, and he'll be breaking into computers and networks on a
regular basis, to access records, shut down their security, plant
disinformation, etc.
As I'm not very familiar with the HS rules on computers, I thought I'd ask
for some help (I play this Saturday, the 30th). If you have any
suggestions about the skills and stats and programs I'd need to make this a
viable computer, please let me know!
Thanks,
Guy
ghoyle1@airmail.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
- --Charles Fort
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 99 13:46:49 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [OIHID and Focus]
> I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and
> Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved.
Well that would make it a -1/2 for an OIF, OIHID (same as an OIF normally),
and it would be /less/ of a limitation (-3/4) for an
OAF, OIHID than an OAF (-1), then there's the 3/8 Limitation you'd
get for an IIF, OIHID.
> This to me represents a power that can be taken away while in hero ID
> but can revert if they change back and forth. Am I off base here?
It'd be a focus that either only exists/functions in Hero ID, or which
is so distinctive that using it effectively identifies you as the Hero.
IIRC, the BBB recomends against combining Foci with Hero ID Only, more
using the latter as an alternative to Focus (as with the Iron Man example).
I think HIDO is reasonable in conjunction with a Focus limitation to
represent a non-concealable focus, like a suit of hard-shell powered
armor (as opposed to a skin-tight battlesuit), that is unique enough
in appearance to identify the character using it as being the Hero...
Might also be reasonable for a focus that 'changes with' the character -
like how Dr. Blake's walking stick turned into the Hammer when he became
Thor. (that doesn't quite sound right, did I get the name right? have
they changed the way Thor works? ...)
____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:53:50 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
From: Robert A. West <robtwest@erols.com>
>> Er, no. We were just discussing this. The reserve gets the
common
>> limitations of each slot, in this case, 4 charges per slot. While a good
>> potential house rule, that construction was quite valid by the book.
>
>Pardon me, but the fact that the list was discussing the question hardly
>qualifies as settling the issue in an official way.
No, but the fact that the book clearly states that a Limitation that applies
to all slots applies to the pool cost, without any reference to it creating
additional Limitations on the individual slots, _does_.
>I would say that
>the rule is clear on the opposite interpretation: a Limitation that is
>placed on the Reserve must apply to the Reserve itself, if there is any
>sensible way to do so.
It does not indicate that in any way, and I disagree with that
interpretation. Furthermore, it cannot be "clear", or there would be no
debate.
>In the instance of charges, this creates a pool
>of charges from which every slot may draw. In the instance of Increased
>END, there is no straightforward and reasonable way to apply the
>Limitation to the Reserve, since expenditure of END implies actually
>using a power, which means that a slot is active.
Which is why I believe you are wrong.
>This is an instance of the Rule of Reason:
<snip>
It is at least mildly insulting to claim, even in such an oblique fashion,
that your opponents don't use "reason" and cannot see things which are
"clear'. Not only have I found that (as a general rule, _NOT_ a commentary
on you) such claims are not made by the most reasonable people in a
discussion, but such claims _never_ convince _anyone_. The opposite is true.
People who are told they are not being reasonable always get _less_
reasonable and argue _more_. This is especially true if they _are_
unreasonable.
>In this case, constructing the rule as I have cited allows one to easily
>describe a power that could not be easily described using the
>construction that you favor (a pool of charges).
Sure it could. Using the Limited Power Limitation, create a new Limitation:
Shared Charges. Give it a value of -1/4 if it applies to four powers, with
an additional -1/4 for each doubling, rounded up. Thus, 2 powers get a -1/2,
3-4 get -3/4, 5-8 get -1, etc. Apply to each power sharing charges, and to
the Multipower pool if it applies to the entire pool.
>Moreover, my
>interpretation means that the cost ordinals are as follows:
>
>Most Expensive: MP with no charges
> MP with charges on each slot, Reserve has total charges.
>Least Expensve: MP with charges on each slot and Reserve has a total
> that prevents all slots from being fully used.
Your interpretation is not unreasonable, but I believe it contains a serious
flaw. If I apply your interpretation across the board, then it results in a
significant imbalance. Some Limitations apply to the pool for free (like
Increased END, NCC, Lim: Only in darkness), some have some increase in the
degree of Limitation (now I need two OIFs, one for the power, one the pool;
now my Increased Time is two min, not one), and some are very severely
limiting (I have a 10 slot Multipower, but can only use it four times a day,
period).
The dramatic differences your ruling would have on different Limitations is
unacceptable to me. Rulings on the use of Limitations shouldn't produce such
large discrepancies, as a rule, IMHO.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:57:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters (was: Frodo Baggins)
> Ghan-buri-Ghan
HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT
Ghan is the MAN! 8)
Please make him as kick-ass as possible, but only in his home
forest. Remember, the Rohirrim were SCARED of those little guys!
HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT
Okay. I'm calm now. I had forgotten about the Wose-men.
==
=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:28:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EGYPTOID.CHA file
Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> wrote:
> A mere 75 pt follower?
75 points BASE. with enough disad points you can
buy skills and powers to rule the world!
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
==
=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:46:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
> >The Rebel: he got into hacking & cracking because he likes to break
the
> >rules, and that shows up in the rest of his life, too. Expect him to
> >challenge rules and authority whenever possible. Play him as the
hacker
> >equivalent of the classic 'loose cannon' characters from cop films.
> >Probably wears a leather jacket
Perhaps like David Goldblum's chaos-theory-quotin scientist
from Jurass-is-grass-ic Park?
==
=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:55:12 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: EGYPTOID.CHA file
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:28:44 Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>75 points BASE. with enough disad points you can
>buy skills and powers to rule the world!
>
>Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so, Elliot. But where are we going to find 37 silver pelicans
and Sam Donaldson's cat?
Pinky Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
>==
>=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
>=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
>=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:52:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker
> Here are a few things to ponder that I can come up with offhand:
> - Setting where he first got interested in his trade
> - Father's occupation
This, to me, is similar to constructing a mage for fantasy hero.
One of the most important questions one can ask of a sorceror
is "Who taught them the craft of magic?"
Their techniques, strengths, tools, and tactics can be strongly
colored by the one to whom they were apprenticed. The teacher may
have been a slack mage that taught them a little, and they went
on to greater heights. Or the master may have been Merlin-class,
and they only scratched the surface of what he knew. The teacher's
attitudes are important.
And, like magicks: Someone had to teach them programming. Even if it
was just the first few basics, and they glommed the rest themselves.
Or maybe they've been tutored since they were six by a unix-guru?
So, howdja get to be such a hacker?
==
=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:48:53 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters (was: Frodo Baggins)
At 02:57 PM 1/28/99 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>> Ghan-buri-Ghan
>
>HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT
>
> Ghan is the MAN! 8)
>
>Please make him as kick-ass as possible, but only in his home
>forest. Remember, the Rohirrim were SCARED of those little guys!
>
>HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT- HOOT
>
>
>Okay. I'm calm now. I had forgotten about the Wose-men.
Ummmm. Yes.
Well, there is a long section on the druadan in "The Book of Lost Tales"
and also an excellent reference in ICE's "Southern Gondor: The People".
At the moment I'm struggling with Ghan-buri-Ghan's immediate
alphabetical predecessor, Gandalf. Like the Balrog before
me, Gandalf threatens to throw me crashing to the ground.
He's tricky.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"He who knows only his own side of the case,
knows little of that."
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1854
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:05:57 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
At 10:35 AM 1/28/99 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>[I have no excuses for what follows except to say: "This character is a
>monster!" I really doubt that very many of you have ever run a game that
>would use such a creation, but hey, he's part of the Dragonball Z universe
>and has been included for completeness sake. Anyway, read on and try not
>to gag too much, please? - Michael]
No problem. I only have one remark at this time anyway:
>2355 Experience
>2630 Total Disadvantage Points
>
>Designers Notes:
>Where to begin? Cell is the second most powerful enemy the Son Goku and
>company ever had to deal with (Majin Buu is number 1).
I don't even know if I *want* to see Majin Buu! ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 1999 20:44:21 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Maybe it's just because I'm not feeling well today, but this statement
BG> makes absolutely *no* sense.
That is the point, Bob. It does not make sense. It demonstrates the flaw
in the logic of the previous statement.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 1999 20:48:50 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control
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"KF" == Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> writes:
KF> Thanks, thats the way I look at it. NCC essnetially turns the power
KF> over to the GM, making it a plot device.
And as a plot device, it exists to further the plot, just like the
description of the limitation says. It does not exist to make life
miserable for the character; those are disadvantages and are treated quite
differently.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 1999 20:51:43 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
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"CH" == Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> writes:
CH> Has anybody done a conversion from the Shadowrun magic system to Hero ?
CH> I quite like a couple of the Shadowrun assumptions for their system and
CH> have been idly thinking of how it would work in Hero.
Having been a long-time Shadowrun player, I would say badly. The mechanics
work in Shadowrun because the system was designed with them in mind.
Grafting them to Hero would be clunky at best.
Or else use Side Effects at half bonus and allow personal defenses to apply
against that damage.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 1999 20:47:01 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: My thought on guns after your comments
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"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> Sorry. I spaced for a moment, and was considering the 2 1/2 D6 attack
F> that was discussed above. Of course, that was neither official nor the
F> 5.56 NATO. Oops.
You also forgot that I had mentioned reducing the DCs of the light, high
energy rounds somewhat in exchange for adding Piercing. So the NATO 5.56
is more likely a 1.5D6 RKA or so with 4 or 5 points of Piercing. Put that
up against a lightly armored 12 DEF vehicle and it will take you a long
time to hurt it, and anything heavier is going to laugh at you (assuming it
could).
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
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PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:28:30 -0600
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
Subject: Power set question.
As related to my OIHID and FOcus thread. (too many loose threads.)
Here is a power construct for a sword.
The sword will cut thru most inanamite objects but not living creatures.
For living creatures it passes thru them and stuns them. I don't believe
I have it written up properly yet. So here it is for the list to rip
apart and put back together (hopefully in better shape.).
20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
END(+1/2)
16 +6d6 HA, only vs. Living Creatures(-1/4), Stun Only(-1/4), OIHID
(-1/4),OAF (-1/2), 0 END(+1/2), Linked to HKA(-1/2)
notes: I bought the HA at 5 pts/die, halved the Focus limitation to
represent it acts as one but isn't as risky,
Tim Statler
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:05:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 10:35 AM 1/28/99 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >[I have no excuses for what follows except to say: "This character is a
> >monster!" I really doubt that very many of you have ever run a game that
> >would use such a creation, but hey, he's part of the Dragonball Z universe
> >and has been included for completeness sake. Anyway, read on and try not
> >to gag too much, please? - Michael]
>
> No problem. I only have one remark at this time anyway:
>
> >2355 Experience
> >2630 Total Disadvantage Points
> >
> >Designers Notes:
> >Where to begin? Cell is the second most powerful enemy that Son Goku
> >and company ever had to deal with (Majin Buu is number 1).
>
> I don't even know if I *want* to see Majin Buu! ;-]
You don't. ^_^
Without going into a great deal of detail, allow me to describe one
of Majin Buu's stunts: He transforms the entire population of a city into
small candies, floats them over and eats *all* of them.
Pssst! Bob? My Perfect Cell beats your Devourer of Worlds!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
A train station is where trains stop. A bus station is where buses stop.
Well, I'm at a workstation.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:00:10 -0600
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
Subject: Re: OIHID and Focus
happyelf wrote:
>
> focus exists in both forms- it's just useless in normal id. i'd call this
> really quite valid.
> you could buy your focus discount with the oihid as a limitation to
> represent it
> returning in normal id/hero crossover. Hence the oihid is an advantage.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
> To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 12:20 PM
> Subject: OIHID and Focus
>
> >I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and
> >Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved.
> >
> >This to me represents a power that can be taken away while in hero ID
> >but can revert if they change back and forth. Am I off base here?
> >
> >Tim Statler
> >Taking cover behind the revetments
> >
> >
Just to clariffy.
The power is a sword. Now the character doesn't run around carring the
sword, but when she transforms to her heroic ID the sword appears. The
sword can then be disarmed, taken, whatever while she is in hero form
and she can't use it until she goes back to her secret id (the sword
disappears) and returns to her hero id. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING SHE WOULD
CASUALLY DO. Especially since she does have secret id disad.
Tim Statler
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:25:33 -0500
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control
At 08:48 PM 1/28/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"KF" == Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> writes:
>
>KF> Thanks, thats the way I look at it. NCC essnetially turns the power
>KF> over to the GM, making it a plot device.
>
>And as a plot device, it exists to further the plot, just like the
>description of the limitation says. It does not exist to make life
>miserable for the character; those are disadvantages and are treated quite
>differently.
Oh, I agree with you. But "furthering the plot", as another person also
pointed out, is not alway soemthing benifical the player character in
question, at that time. A NCC precog having a vision while doing something
else, perhaps in public, is not benfical, but may further the plot. If the
plot involes the PC being in China, then his NCC teleport kicks in and
nothing says it has to be a convient time. If the power constantly and/or
consitently causes the character problems its a disadvantage. If it
occasionaly does so due to limitations placed on it usefulness or even sfx
thats not one in my opinion.
The limitation says "usually to further the plot". That opens up a lot of
possibilities as far as I can see, you just have to be careful that the
power maintains usefulness based on the points paid for it (not very
considering the limitation value). It can occasioanlly come up when it
doesn't further plot, sometimes cause problems even when it does, just as
sometimes Disadvantages can have benifits and limiations can be useful.
Oh! Its all hot and sticky.
Is this blood? Nice....
Lillith-Darkstalkers 3
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:49:47 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
At 02:08 PM 1/28/1999 -0600, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
>Has anybody done a conversion from the Shadowrun magic system
>to Hero ? I quite like a couple of the Shadowrun assumptions for
>their system and have been idly thinking of how it would work in
>Hero.
Somebody, somewhere, is bound to have done the conversion. You might start
by browsing the 287 websites in the Shadowrun Web Ring (not all of them are
in English).
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=shadowrun&list
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:33:19 -0600
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: A painful question
> From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
> Everyone has varying tastes in running a campaign, and we all have
> strong opinions on what makes a campaign enjoyable and encourages the
> feel of the genre, but we rarely get into an objective discussion of the
> specifics.
>
> The question I'm asking is, what are the advantages and disadvantages of
> a low power campaign versus a high power campaign? What does a high
> point campaign do that a low point campaign doesn't, and vice versa?
>
> I've been thinking about writing an article on power levels, and I'd
> appreciate opinions on the question.
As an oblique answer, I think it is all relative to the genre. Too low
points for the genre, and the characters cannot do what they should be able
to do. Example, High Fantasy game with 50 start + 50 disadvantage
characters. OTOH, too high points for the genre leads to lack of variety.
Example, Low Fantasy game with hundreds of points. After the little ole
wizard has spent 40 points on characteristics and a few points on the
meager spells allowed, the player finds it hard to resist putting a couple
of skill levels into daggers. Pretty soon, old flashy fingers is throwing
knives like gangbusters.
Of course, the examples could be valid campaigns: A long running epic
could start with very low point totals. But for every campaign, there is a
point total that is too low and too high.
It is also relative to the genre because of the opposition. Very powerful
characters will neither unbalance a campaign nor overshadow the heroes, if
they have something that keeps them from fully using their power or keeps
them busy--witness the recent discussions about LotR characters with those
powerful rings.
Steven
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:40:57 -0800
From: Jay P Hailey <jayphailey@juno.com>
Subject: Re: AP, Penetrating, Piercing
>I liked Piercing. What it did is you bought points of Piercing (2
>points for each 1 piercing for normal attacks and 3 points for each 1 of
>killing, if I recall correctly). Each point of Piercing ignored one
point of
>the appropriate defense. It was an odd power but it worked well for
some
>powers, and it was fun to use. Im not sure it was all that cost
>effective, but on certain powers like Drain, it was hideous (just how
much powerf
>defense do YOU buy?)
Sounds unbablancing to me. It should cost as much or more than the
defense being affected.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
God was my co-pilot, but we crashed into the mountains and I had to eat
him.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:29:49 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
At 02:08 PM 1/28/99 -0600, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
>Has anybody done a conversion from the Shadowrun magic system
>to Hero ? I quite like a couple of the Shadowrun assumptions for
>their system and have been idly thinking of how it would work in
>Hero.
Even though I know next to nothing about the Shadowrun system, I can
make a couple of shots at least:
>These are:
>
>1) spell casting takes an amount of effort (drain) proportional to the
>strength of the spell. this is charged against the mage's stun and then
>his body. this drain can be resisted by willpower
Call this a Side Effect which manifests as an Ego Attack which Does
BODY. The resistance by Willpower can be represented by increasing the
damage from the basic 1d6 per 20 AP to 1d6 per 13 AP if it requires an EGO
Roll to resist (something like applying a "Requires Failed EGO Roll by
Target" Limitation), or 1d6 per 10 AP if it can be defended by Mental
Defense (somewhat like removing the NND Advantage from a Power).
>2) mage's can allocate their spell casting ability so that they either
>get more effect from their spell, or suffer less drain in other words,
>a skilled wizard can cast a spell with less effort, or with greater effect.
That's already covered in the existing Side Effects rules -- the more
effect you do, the more damage (or other effect) you take.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:18:20 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: A painful question
>>It's not just that coming up with them is hard; it's that it
>>encourages excesses of high-maintainence disads like Hunteds and DNPCs
>(not high
>>for the players...high for the GM). As a GM, I _really_ don't need to
>>keep up with 12 Hunteds and 9 DNPCs for a six character group.
>
>A> Establish "Campaign hunteds" a list of folks who are available
>generically for hunteds
>
>B>If the Player comes up with a good idea for bad guys in his hunteds,
>then steal 'em. If they are too generic, then merge 'em into one of the
>"Campaign hunteds" above.
>
>I do stuff like that.
That's not the issue; whether they're derived from my campaign or not, it's
just too many to use regularly. With 12 hunteds in a game, if you're using
them as intended, you expect about three of them involved _every session_.
I just find that too damn much trouble.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:38:26 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
> Er, no. We were just discussing this. The reserve gets the common
>limitations of each slot, in this case, 4 charges per slot. While a good
>potential house rule, that construction was quite valid by the book.
>
Actually, some of us don't think it _is_ valid by the book, since it appears
to be an example of a limitation that applies to the individual slots rather
than the pool. In effect, each slot is getting a seperate charge limitation
on it, and given the lowest common limitation rule is gone...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:38:22 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations (Oh, Mr. Long!)
>At 07:25 AM 1/26/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>If you're refering to the fact that if the Focus is Universal the levels
>>could be used by someone else, I don't consider that significant.
>>Especially given that there is nothing requiring that Foci be Universal.
>>That says, to me, that the assumptions of the game are that the big
>>limitingfactor is 'take away from user' not 'used by others'. And in
>>practice, taking the gun away will make the levels mostly useless most of
>>the time anyway.
>
> OK, so the villain takes the gun away from the hero, and this includes
>the +3 OCV built into the gun.... and *that* isn't significant?
Since the fact it can be done with the base powers isn't considered
significant in the Limiting value of focus, why should I assume it is?
> Mind you, I can see the 5 pt CSLs with a Limitation for "Only With
>Weapon" as well as OAF (net cost 5 pts), but is it really *that* damaging
>to let it be three 2 pt CSLs with just the OAF (net cost 3 pts)?
Given that I already think 2 point levels are an overly generous operation?
Yeah, i think it is.
> Would you really deny the above hero the cost break of 2 lousy points
>(or 3 pts, compared to 2 pt CSLs bought straight) when the special effects
>would call for the above situation? I mean, it's not like it was an extra
>Limitation on the whole bloomin' Power here.
Since I tend to frown on 2 point levels in the first place?
> Very rarely do I see an OAF weapon in a Personal Focus, and almost never
>with OCV bonuses. The only exception was a high-tech gun that used
>"fingerprint ID," and even then it was used against him (indirectly -- I
>don't even remember exactly how that went down).
I've seen guns that were keyed to their users and couldn't be used by other
people in a lot of contexts.
> Now, I'll grant that these are small problems that will come up only
>occasionally in a game, if at all. But remember how big, really, the bonus
>is in terms of points the character actually saves. Compare it to how
>helpful a Power or Skill of the same cost would be in a game. How often,
>really, does a PC's ability to speak fluent Japanese save the day? Are
>those 3 or 4 points worth the same as the above-described inconvenience,
>which would provide a character with a savings of about the same amount?
The problem is, you're looking at it the wrong way; what it provides is the
savings to buy _more of those levels_.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:00:55 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"JT" == Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>JT> However, I think you're looking at it backwards. If each slot has 4
>JT> charges, and the Multipower has 5 slots, then the Multipower as a whole
>JT> has 20 charges. You're giving the reserve, the most expensive part of
>JT> the multipower, the value of a -1 limitation, despite the fact that it
>JT> effectively has a +1/4 advantage!
>
>By that logic, a Multipower with 5 slots, each having x2 END, would require
>the Reduced END *advantage* on the reserve.
Except that Charges are based on the total number of shots available, while
X2 Endurance involves extra Endurance per use. The latter is just as
limiting on a Multipower...maybe moreso...then on a normal power. The
charges aren't, and I frankly find it a little amazing that someone thinks
that someone who has four charges each of, say, six different attacks, is as
limited as someone who just has four charges period.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:57:05 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
>*grabs somebody's plasma cannon and shoots them with it*
>volia.
And, as I pointed out, nothing requires him to make the focus Universal, a
choice that's considered just that, a choice, rather than a different level
of limitation?
I'm sorry, but I might buy this if the system showed any sign of considering
the ability for a focus to be used by others other than a break even...but
it doesn't.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:11:45 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Gandalf The Grey
13 STR 3
15 DEX 15
20 CON 20
20 BODY 20
25 INT 15
30 EGO 40
20 PRE 10
12 COM 1
7 PD 4
10 ED 6
5 SPD 25
15 REC 16
80 END 20
50 STUN 13
Characteristics Cost: 208
6 Life Support,immune to disease,immune to aging
9 +3 Enhanced Perception,with all senses
9 Sense Magic , +2 PER
20 Clairsentience, see future, No Conscious Control, 0 END
3 Bump Of Direction
38 15- Danger Sense, any attack, general area
10 Eidetic Memory
3 Lightsleep
15 3D6 Luck
2 WF,Swords,Quarterstaff
5 1 Level: Melee Weapons,
20 2 Levels,all skills (noted in parentheses, below)
11 Conversation 17- (19-)
9 Deduction 17- (19-)
11 High Society 17 - (19-)
13 Navigation 16- (18-)
17 Oratory 20- (22-)
3 Paramedic 14- (16-)
17 Persuasion 20- (22-)
5 Riding 13- (15-)
3 Linguist
1 Lang: The Tongue of Aman,native,literacy
5 Lang: Quenya,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Sindarin,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Adunaic,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Westron,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Hobbitish,imitate dialects,literacy
5 Lang: Khuzdul,imitate dialects,literacy
4 Lang: Black Speech,imitate dialects,literacy
5 Lang: Haradrim,imitate dialects,literacy
5 Lang: Easterling,imitate dialects,literacy
28 15- Universal Translator
3 Traveler
6 AK: Eriador 18- (20-)
4 AK: Rhovanion 16- (18-)
5 AK: Gondor 17- (19-)
2 AK: Rhun 14,- (16-)
2 AK: Mordor 14- (16-)
2 KS: Haradwaith 14- (16-)
4 AK: Aman 16- (18-)
3 Scholar
5 KS: History of Middle-Earth 17- (19-)
4 KS: The Peoples of Middle-Earth 16- (18-)
9 KS: Councils of the Wise 21- (23-)
8 KS: Minions and Powers of Sauron 20- (22-)
5 KS: Items of Power 17- (19-)
3 KS: Maiar of Middle-Earth 15- (17-)
2 KS: Will of the Valar 14- (16-)
3 Well-Connected
1 11- Contact: Cirdan
5 15- Contact: Elrond
1 11- Contact: Thranduil
4 14- Contact: Celeborn and Galadriel
2 12- Contact: Saruman
3 13- Contact: Radagast
5 15- Contact: Aragorn
1 11- Contact: Eomer
1 11- Contact: Faramir
1 11- Contact: Imrahil
1 11- Contact: Bard II
1 11- Contact: Dain II Ironfoot
1 8- Contact: Fangorn
1 11- Contact: Gwaihir
378 Variable Power Pool (175-point pool),
restricted type of powers ("Istari Powers"),
can change powers as 0 phase,no skill roll required,
0 END
32 Package, "Glamdring - Gondolin Broadsword",OAF,STR Min 10
(18) 2D6 Killing Attack HTH, vs physical defense,
+1 Increased Stun Multiple
(6) 3 Levels,related group
(9) Sense Orcs and Other Dark Servants, 360-degrees, +3
PER
362 Package,"Narya The Ring of Fire", IIF,0 END Persistent
(13) KS: Fire Magic 20-
(108) 10D6 Aid, "To VPP", Use Risks Drawing Sauron's Attention,
Extra Time (1 turn), Continuous, Uncontrolled
Only for Fire Magic or to bring Courage and Strength
(64) Invisibility, Detect, Mental Group,no fringe
(63) 3D6 Aid to Presence, fade rate: per day, Usable By Others,
doesn't lose power, usable at range, x16 # Of Targets
(69) 75% Damage Reduction (ED),resistant, Only v. Fire and Cold
(5) Life Support,safe in heat/cold
(16) 10 Flash Defense, Sight Group
(24) 4" Change Environment, "Heat and Flames"
Powers Cost: 1154
Total Cost: 1368
Base Points: 75
10 Distinctive Features,"White-Bearded old Man",concealable,
minor
5 Hunted,"Minions of Sauron", less powerful, harsh, appear 8-
8 Watched, "The Valar", more powerful, noncombat influence, mild,
appear 8-
8 Watched, "The Wise", as powerful, noncombat influence, mild,
appear 11-
20 Psychological Limitation, "Opposition to Sauron", very common,
strong
15 Psychological Limitation, "Spirit of Compassion", common,
strong
15 Psychological Limitation, "Protective of Companions", common,
strong
10 Reputation, "Istari",occur 8-, extreme reputation
10 Reputation, "Meddler", occur 11-
10 Rivalry, "Saruman", professional, in superior position
15 Secret ID,"Bearer of the Ring Narya"
1167 Secret Fire of Anor Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 1293
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 1368
The second most powerful of the Istari, the order of wizards, Gandalf
was one of the maia sent by the Valar in circa Third Age 1000 to
unite and counsel the Free Peoples in their struggle against Sauron
and his allies. As Olorin the maia, he was said to be the wisest
of the maiar. He dwelt in the land of Irmo, the Land of Dreams, but
learned more deeply of compassion and patience from Nienna than
any other maiar.
Like all the Istari, he had to assume the form of a frail old man to
venture into Middle-Earth and share the earthly existence of those
he would counsel. When he arrived in Lindon, however, he was
recognized by Cirdan the Shipwright, who had known him in Aman,
and Cirdan gave him the Narya, the elven Ring of Fire.
Over the next two thousand years, Gandalf worked to oppose the
plots of Sauron, moving ceaselessly throughout the west, from Forochel
to Umbar and from Lindon to Rhun. He was closest of all the Istari to
the Eldar, and he alone of the Istari gave thought to the little things of
the Earth, like hobbits.
In 2063, at the request of the White Council, he went in secret to
Dol Guldur in Mirkwood, seeking in vain for the identity of it's master,
the Necromancer. Eight hundred years later, in 2850, he again
entered Dol Guldur and discovered that the Necromancer was Sauron.
He also found the dwarf Thrain and received from him the key to Erebor,
the Lonely Mountain.
In 2941, he convinced Thrain's son Thorin Oakenshield to make an
expedition from the Ered Luin, through the Shire to Erebor. This
is the tale told in "The Hobbit." In this, Gandalf sought to do two things.
He sought to remove the growing power of the dragon, Smaug, before
he could become an effective ally to Sauron. He also sought a strong
ally against the growing threat of the Easterlings.
This expedition had a far more important result, for Bilbo had by
accident or fate recovered the One Ring. Gandalf suspected it as
such, and between 2941 and 3001, had the rangers of the north keep
a close watch on the Shire. In 3001, Gandalf convinced Bilbo to
give up the One Ring to Frodo and retire to Rivendell.
As war loomed on all fronts in 3019, Gandalf influenced Frodo to
travel to Rivendell and then to begin the quest of the Ring. It was in
Rivendell that Gandalf proved to the White Council that Saruman
had become evil, and that Frodo's ring was indeed the One Ring.
Gandalf accompanied the Fellowship of the Ring as far as Moria,
where he died slaying the Balrog. But as a maia, only his physical
form could be slain, and he was shortly thereafter returned as
Gandalf the White, taking on the greater power that should have
been Saruman's.
Gandalf dressed in grey robes and a tall grey battered hat. His long
white beard descended past his waist. He had many names.
"Gandalf" (Grey-elf) was the name given him by the men of the north.
The elves called him Mithrandir, and the dwarves Tharkun. He was
Incanus in Haradwaith and Greyhame in Rohan. He was also known
as Grey Wanderer, Grey Pilgrim, Stormcrow (by Theoden), Lathspell
(by Grima) and the Grey Fool (by Denethor). His true name was Olorin,
but he said that he like Gandalf best of all.
The Ring Narya is the Ring of Fire, and aids its wearer in bringing
courage, insight and hope. It was forged in Eregion during the Second
Age by the smith Celebrimbor. Sauron, disguised as Atannar, sought to
use the rings to bind the elven kindred, but Celebrimbor discovered the
plot and hid the rings before Sauron could taint them. Narya he gave to
Cirdan.
The sword Glamdring was forged in Gondolin during the First Age for
the wars of Beleriand. It was worn by Turgon, king of Gondolin. It's
between the fall of Gondolin in First Age 511 and the late Third Age
is unrecorded, but Gandalf discovered it in a troll-hoard in 2941. It
was the twin to Orcrist, carried by and buried with Thorin Oakenshield.
Glamdring and Orcrist were known to the goblins as Beater and Biter,
respectively.
NOTES:
1) I will continue Gandalf's history in "Gandalf The White"
2) Although seemingly old and frail, Gandalf could throw off
this guise and reveal his true strength, as he did on the bridge
of Khazad-dum. Thus, his characteristics are not those of a
frail man.
3) Gandalf was highly perceptive, hence his Deduction and
Danger Sense. I can only guess that these failed him when
Saruman captured him, or that they have no effect on other
maiar.
4) The term "Istari Powers" used for the VPP deserves some
comment. Gandalf does not fly, and only rarely uses blasts
of fire. He never turns his opponents into toads or teleports
himself. He walks, he rides, he counsels. This is his nature,
and the 'magic' is really a representation of the immense
power of the maiar, even limited by 'mortal' form.
5) The Rivalry with Saruman represents their differing views
on the White Council, and of course the fact that (unbeknownst
to Gandalf until 3018) that Saruman has become evil.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"He who knows only his own side of the case,
knows little of that."
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1854
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #168
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