Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 169
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 1:59 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #169
champ-l-digest Friday, January 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 169
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
Re: Limitations on Multipowers
Re: How much damage should guns do.
Re: Levels and Limitations
Re: OIHID and Focus
Re: Power set question.
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: Power set question.
Re: Power set question.
extra time
Re: A painful question
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Modifiers to Telepathy Attacks
Re: extra time
Re: extra time
Re: extra time
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
Re: Power set question.
Re: Power set question.
Re: Power set question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 11:14:15
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:35:19 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>1070 Seru Junia Umi Dashi: Duplication: 10 732 point Duplicates (aka
> Mini-Cells), Full-Phase to create Duplicates (-1/2)
Shouldn't this be Summon?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 11:27:52
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:11:45 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>10 Distinctive Features,"White-Bearded old Man",concealable,
> minor
Shouldn't this be Public ID: Gandalf the Grey? After all, being old and
having a long beard isn't really a DF.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 11:32:31
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:33:40 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:58:01 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>
>>>><<If you put the OAF on the pool, you don't have to buy it again for the
>>>>slots, but the -1 modifier will still apply.>>
>>>>
>>>>So, what you're saying is, that if you put the OAF limitation on the pool,
>>>>you don't buy the limitation again for each slot?
>>>
>>>In practice, yes. It's already assumed the whole Multipower is an OAF.
>>>There's been some debate in the past how multipowers _composed_ of entirely
>>>OAFs should normally be priced, since they're harder to take out than a
>>>single OAF would be.
>>
>>My take on this is that the MP only gets the OAF if it's the same OAF.
>>This goes for some other limitations, too. Anyway, if it isn't the same
>>OAF, what are the powers doing in the same MP?
>
>It's a common construct for buying things like arsenals of weapons
Nope - each weapon should be its own focus.
> and utility belts.
This is fine - if he loses the belt, he loses all the powers
> I've also occasionally seen cases of people with multipowers
>where one slot is a focus because it's _literally_ a focus in this case (as
>an example, in my last campaign, one of the characters was a telepath who
>learned psionic technology as the campaign progressed. She had one slot of
>her multipower that took her telepathic powers and transduced them into a
>telekinetic force blast).
I don't follow here - could you elaborate?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:27:07 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
>>It's a common construct for buying things like arsenals of weapons
>
>Nope - each weapon should be its own focus.
Why? Why should the person who has seven different weapons be that much
more expensive than the person who has one weapon that does seven things?
That's a case of seriously punishing people cost-wise for what is, much of
the time, special effects.
>
>> and utility belts.
>
>This is fine - if he loses the belt, he loses all the powers
>
>> I've also occasionally seen cases of people with multipowers
>>where one slot is a focus because it's _literally_ a focus in this case (as
>>an example, in my last campaign, one of the characters was a telepath who
>>learned psionic technology as the campaign progressed. She had one slot of
>>her multipower that took her telepathic powers and transduced them into a
>>telekinetic force blast).
>
>I don't follow here - could you elaborate?
Essentially, one slot had the focus limitation...the focus took her
telepathic powers and turned them into psychokientic force when she was
using it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:27:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, qts wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:35:19 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> >1070 Seru Junia Umi Dashi: Duplication: 10 732 point Duplicates (aka
> > Mini-Cells), Full-Phase to create Duplicates (-1/2)
>
> Shouldn't this be Summon?
No, I don't think so. Why should this be summon? Cell creates little
versions of himself, he doesn't summon another version of himself that has
a mind of it's own.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I don't care where I go, as long as it ain't here..."
George Thorogood, "Gear Jammer"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:29:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, qts wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:11:45 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
> >10 Distinctive Features,"White-Bearded old Man",concealable,
> > minor
>
> Shouldn't this be Public ID: Gandalf the Grey? After all, being old and
> having a long beard isn't really a DF.
Yes it is. Gandalf's height, dress, age and hairstyle are pretty
recognizable by many. Actually, Gandalf could almost have both a Public
ID (many people knew or knew of him) and the DF, since he was fairly easy
to ID by many people.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I don't care where I go, as long as it ain't here..."
George Thorogood, "Gear Jammer"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:44:05 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers
At 03:27 AM 1/29/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>It's a common construct for buying things like arsenals of weapons
>>
>>Nope - each weapon should be its own focus.
>
>Why? Why should the person who has seven different weapons be that much
>more expensive than the person who has one weapon that does seven things?
>That's a case of seriously punishing people cost-wise for what is, much of
>the time, special effects.
Esp. if you compare to buying those powers OUTSIDE of the multipower. One
could argue that there's a definite advantage/lack of limitation of having
multiple foci vs. one foci ... but it's not like I can buy "Power A, OAF
(Foo)", and then argue my GM into "Power B, OAF (Foo), Foo Already Used for
Power A (-1/x)" (or, alternatively, requiring "+1/x Advantage: New Focus").
- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:37:57 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do.
>
>>* I reject the excuse that the damage values given are what they are
>>because they are intended for "comic book" or "cinematic" damage. The
core
>>rules -- including damage values for common weapons -- need to apply
>>equally to all genres, not just comic book or cinematic/high adventure
>>games. If you want to modify the damage ratings, or the way damage is
>>calculated, within a genre book, fine.
>
>Stop right there. You're playing the wrong game.
>
woah there!
>I'm quite serious; while there are various rules to make this less so, the
>base assumptions in the Hero System are and always have been cinematic in
>nature; this goes all the way from the strength values to the damage
add a pip of hka with every point of strength past 20, manditory for
character creation.
you quickly get proper or effective lethality- it costs more, as it should.
Hence, a guy with str 30 is doing 2d6 hka should he wish it.
> to the
>fact people can dodge bullets as effectively as thrown rocks.
add a bonus to ocv of guns based on their speed. again it will result in a
more
expensive construct, but it's possible, and quite viable.
> If you don't
>realize that, trying to address this sort of thing will cause you enormous
>frustration, because it's too well embodied int he core design of the
rules.
>
nope. i'd turn his suggestion around, and tell him to think of a realistic
genre-book.
As it is, this ain't htat non-deadly. I mean if you have enough points, you
can kill
somebody. how many time have you heard somebody that just got beaten up
saying:
"why, if i had more points i coulda kicked yer ass!"
and sofourth. irl, fighting is far more restricted by things like size and
range.
in hero, all it takes is a plot device.
>The Hero System was designed initially around the superhero genre, and the
>basic assumptions in it support that sort of feel. The fact it is useable
>for other settings is largely an artifact of the fact the superhero genre
is
>so all encompassing. But if you expect it's assumptions at the root to be
>truly genre/style neutral, you're in the wrong game.
>
>
well, i'd tend to say this is as realistic as anything, considering you can
tweak it to
suit what you think of realism. Take cyberpunk- armor=invincible. Take ad&d=
kicking people in the head wears off. at least we have the option to make
adjustments.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:09:23 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Levels and Limitations
>>*grabs somebody's plasma cannon and shoots them with it*
>>volia.
>
>And, as I pointed out, nothing requires him to make the focus Universal, a
>choice that's considered just that, a choice, rather than a different level
>of limitation?
>
yes, but if he has a common object like a mass-manufactured weapon,
it's pretty common for them not to be hard-wired to a particular level. and
in any event, there are exceptions- what about his evil twin?
your position does not justify the lack of proper limtations, if the power
is in a focus, it's
in a focus. If that focus gets trashed, the power is gone for however long,
if it's an independant
power that means somehting, and even if it isn't, it still means it can't be
used.
A focus is a focus. It cal also take damage,
with the focus limit, you can trash the power via blasting it. There are
numerous reasons
for this, plus the inherent reason- if it's not a 'skill', it's in the
object, if it's in the object,
it's not a 'skill'. a more powerful csl would be badly abused by you saying
'may as well not get that foci limt',
the same premise applies ot lower values.
>I'm sorry, but I might buy this if the system showed any sign of
considering
>the ability for a focus to be used by others other than a break even...but
>it doesn't.
>
well, those of us in the know tend not to hand out nonuniversal foci without
a
good reason. Also, i don't let anything less than 5 pts get a limit, anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:57:52 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: OIHID and Focus
yup, that's pretty much what i was suggesting. the limitation on the focus
is reduced
due to it only being in hero id. if you buy oihid and focu normally, you
have a focus that
don't work in normal id.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org&> happyelf
<jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: OIHID and Focus
>happyelf wrote:
>>
>> focus exists in both forms- it's just useless in normal id. i'd call this
>> really quite valid.
>> you could buy your focus discount with the oihid as a limitation to
>> represent it
>> returning in normal id/hero crossover. Hence the oihid is an advantage.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
>> To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org>
>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 12:20 PM
>> Subject: OIHID and Focus
>>
>> >I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and
>> >Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved.
>> >
>> >This to me represents a power that can be taken away while in hero ID
>> >but can revert if they change back and forth. Am I off base here?
>> >
>> >Tim Statler
>> >Taking cover behind the revetments
>> >
>> >
>Just to clariffy.
>
>The power is a sword. Now the character doesn't run around carring the
>sword, but when she transforms to her heroic ID the sword appears. The
>sword can then be disarmed, taken, whatever while she is in hero form
>and she can't use it until she goes back to her secret id (the sword
>disappears) and returns to her hero id. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING SHE WOULD
>CASUALLY DO. Especially since she does have secret id disad.
>
>Tim Statler
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:15:34 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 1:41 PM
Subject: Power set question.
>As related to my OIHID and FOcus thread. (too many loose threads.)
>
>Here is a power construct for a sword.
>
>The sword will cut thru most inanamite objects but not living creatures.
>For living creatures it passes thru them and stuns them. I don't believe
>I have it written up properly yet. So here it is for the list to rip
>apart and put back together (hopefully in better shape.).
>
>
>20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
>END(+1/2)
>
>16 +6d6 HA, only vs. Living Creatures(-1/4), Stun Only(-1/4), OIHID
>(-1/4),OAF (-1/2), 0 END(+1/2), Linked to HKA(-1/2)
>
>
>notes: I bought the HA at 5 pts/die, halved the Focus limitation to
>represent it acts as one but isn't as risky,
>
>Tim Statler
>
>
as you described it on the other thread, i'd write the oihid as a reduction
on the discount given
fro the focus. The oihid is advantageous, if it can be used to get the focus
back.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:54:18 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
- -----Original Message-----
From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
>
>It is at least mildly insulting to claim, even in such an oblique fashion,
>that your opponents don't use "reason" and cannot see things which are
>"clear'. Not only have I found that (as a general rule, _NOT_ a commentary
>on you) such claims are not made by the most reasonable people in a
>discussion, but such claims _never_ convince _anyone_. The opposite is
true.
>People who are told they are not being reasonable always get _less_
>reasonable and argue _more_. This is especially true if they _are_
>unreasonable.
>
I'd pay rat being more unreasonable than me. nonetheless, being told yer
unreasonable does not nesecarily effect your argumentitive prowess, possibly
only the superficial aspects of conduct involved.
You can label such a loss of argumentitivly reasonable conduct, but you
would be in error
in many cases.
>>In this case, constructing the rule as I have cited allows one to easily
>>describe a power that could not be easily described using the
>>construction that you favor (a pool of charges).
>
>Sure it could. Using the Limited Power Limitation, create a new Limitation:
>Shared Charges. Give it a value of -1/4 if it applies to four powers, with
>an additional -1/4 for each doubling, rounded up. Thus, 2 powers get
a -1/2,
>3-4 get -3/4, 5-8 get -1, etc. Apply to each power sharing charges, and to
>the Multipower pool if it applies to the entire pool.
>
so. . we either make a new limtation, or we can simply apply it like thus:
4 charges:
4 charges overall - apply to pool and slots.
16 charges overally - apply to each slot, apart from pool.
you're getting a discount, just a suitable one.
>>Moreover, my
>>interpretation means that the cost ordinals are as follows:
>>
>>Most Expensive: MP with no charges
>> MP with charges on each slot, Reserve has total charges.
>>Least Expensve: MP with charges on each slot and Reserve has a total
>> that prevents all slots from being fully used.
>
>
>Your interpretation is not unreasonable, but I believe it contains a
serious
>flaw. If I apply your interpretation across the board, then it results in a
>significant imbalance. Some Limitations apply to the pool for free (like
>Increased END, NCC, Lim: Only in darkness),
you can't take those. a limtation, should it effect powers, must effect ALL
power slots. That's the whole point, the downside of limiting the pool.
> some have some increase in the
>degree of Limitation (now I need two OIFs, one for the power, one the pool;
>now my Increased Time is two min, not one),
if you have two of the same limtation, you have two, reguardless of
wether it's a mp pool or not. That has nothing to do with the issue. You may
have
to regulate or forbid certain multiples, but the current concepts does not
encourage or
increase the chances of such.
> and some are very severely
>limiting (I have a 10 slot Multipower, but can only use it four times a
day,
>period).
>
that is the downside of having bulk slots. the limts effect bulk of your
points.
Otherwise, a large slot multipower can become abusive if limitations are
just piled onto the
pool cost. And anyway, a 4 charge limit is a 4 charge limt, it's harsh,
period.
>The dramatic differences your ruling would have on different Limitations is
>unacceptable to me. Rulings on the use of Limitations shouldn't produce
such
>large discrepancies, as a rule, IMHO.
>
what large discrepancy? it's just number of uses, not even a qualititative
difference.
>Filksinger
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:45:18 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
At 07:28 PM 1/27/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
>END(+1/2)
Unless you're actually carrying the sword when you're not in
hero id, the OIHID limitation is merely an attempt to shave
off points without taking any real disadvantage.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:15:22 EST
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
>20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
>END(+1/2)
>
>16 +6d6 HA, only vs. Living Creatures(-1/4), Stun Only(-1/4), OIHID
>(-1/4),OAF (-1/2), 0 END(+1/2), Linked to HKA(-1/2)
Using both stun only and only vs. living creatures sounds a bit odd -- is
the character really going to run into that many non-living things with a
STUN stat?
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:46 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: extra time
Hi,
One of my players has a damage shield. He's bought it with the [extra time -
full turn] limitation. What he wants is to spend a full turn activating the
damage shield and then have it run normally until deactivated. I said I'd
let him take the lim at half value based on the convention used with
gestures and incantations. That, and he has to pay END into it every phase.
Does this sound reasonable?
Specifically, this is a fire based spell called Scar. It's a small damage
shield drain to COM with a fade rate of about 100 years and 2 levels of
[difficult to dispel]. The idea is that if you're foolish enough to put your
hands on the dread warlock Petru Fruevenbach, your skin will blister and
boil so that all may see the price of your arrogance. It's just a flavour
spell so I'm not too worried about it but I don't want to set the wrong
precendent.
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
"Do or do not. There is no try."
- - Yoda
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:30:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: A painful question
At 11:18 PM 1/28/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>That's not the issue; whether they're derived from my campaign or not, it's
>just too many to use regularly. With 12 hunteds in a game, if you're using
>them as intended, you expect about three of them involved _every session_.
>I just find that too damn much trouble.
Funny... I find that to be a great impetus for plots.
In many of my stories, one of the Hunters is the main baddie for the
session, while two others provide plot complications.
Or maybe two of the Hunters have primary involvement, working either
together or against each other.
(Of course, those 12 Hunteds won't necessarily be all different; with
campaign based Hunteds, there'll be a lot of overlap.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:28:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
At 03:40 AM 1/29/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
>cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
>> I don't even know if I *want* to see Majin Buu! ;-]
>
>You don't. ^_^
>
>Without going into a great deal of detail, allow me to describe one
>of Majin Buu's stunts: He transforms the entire population of a city into
>small candies, floats them over and eats *all* of them.
Speeeeew. ;-]
>Pssst! Bob? My Perfect Cell beats your Devourer of Worlds!
Pointwise, definitely; and he probably could in combat.
I might post the Devourer to the list soon, for comparison. It depends
on what its fate is re: appearing in TUV or a secondary book, and HG's
policy about that sort of thing.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:43:36 -0500
From: David_A._Fair@fc.mcps.k12.md.us (David A. Fair)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
exucurt@exu.ericsson.se,Internet writes:
>1) spell casting takes an amount of effort (drain) proportional to the
>strength of the spell. this is charged against the mage's stun and
>then
>his body. this drain can be resisted by willpower
Make all spells take an xd6 STUN Drain as a side effect, put a
limitation on the Drain that cuts it's dice in half with a successful
EGO roll.
>2) mage's can allocate their spell casting ability so that they either
>get more effect from their spell, or suffer less drain in other words,
>a skilled wizard can cast a spell with less effort, or with greater
>effect.
Make each spell a 2-3 spell Multipower. The first has a high level of
effect and high Side effect as well. The second has little side effect,
and a reduced level of effect as well. The third would average the two.
My Six Cents,
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 16:28:21
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:27:39 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, qts wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:35:19 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>
>> >1070 Seru Junia Umi Dashi: Duplication: 10 732 point Duplicates (aka
>> > Mini-Cells), Full-Phase to create Duplicates (-1/2)
>>
>> Shouldn't this be Summon?
>
>No, I don't think so. Why should this be summon? Cell creates little
>versions of himself, he doesn't summon another version of himself that has
>a mind of it's own.
Fair enough. It just seems a very expensive way of doing it.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:19:20 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
At 08:44 PM 1/28/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
>
>BG> Maybe it's just because I'm not feeling well today, but this statement
>BG> makes absolutely *no* sense.
>
>That is the point, Bob. It does not make sense. It demonstrates the flaw
>in the logic of the previous statement.
What was nonsensical about it was that it had no bearing on the logic of
the previous statement whatsoever. In fact, I didn't even see a
relationship. Even on re-examination, feeling a bit more awake and under
the weather, it looks to me like a total non sequitur. You might as well
have been asking where we're going to get a duck and a hose at this hour.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:38:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, qts wrote:
> >> Shouldn't this be Summon?
> >
> >No, I don't think so. Why should this be summon? Cell creates little
> >versions of himself, he doesn't summon another version of himself that has
> >a mind of it's own.
>
> Fair enough. It just seems a very expensive way of doing it.
Any way you slice it, Duplication is *very* expensive.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We're Americans -- with a capital 'A', huh? Do you know what that means?
Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent
nation on Earth. We are the wretched refuse!"
John Winger (Bill Murray), from _Stripes_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:38:34 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Modifiers to Telepathy Attacks
I know it says somewhere in the books about modifiers to telepathic attacks.
Say I have a character with 10d6 Telepathy attacking someone who would
effectively have an "alien mind". Would the alien mind modifier apply to
the attack
roll, or to the total of the 10d6?
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
If the GM smiles, run. If she laughs, it's too late...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:37:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: extra time
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Hi,
>
> One of my players has a damage shield. He's bought it with the [extra time -
> full turn] limitation. What he wants is to spend a full turn activating the
> damage shield and then have it run normally until deactivated. I said I'd
> let him take the lim at half value based on the convention used with
> gestures and incantations. That, and he has to pay END into it every phase.
>
> Does this sound reasonable?
Yes. In fact, there is a comment in Extra Time (IIRC) that states that
powers that need the extra time to start up but run normally afterwards
only get half of the limitation value.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We're Americans -- with a capital 'A', huh? Do you know what that means?
Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent
nation on Earth. We are the wretched refuse!"
John Winger (Bill Murray), from _Stripes_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:31:55 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: extra time
At 10:39 AM 1/29/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Hi,
>
>One of my players has a damage shield. He's bought it with the [extra time -
>full turn] limitation. What he wants is to spend a full turn activating the
>damage shield and then have it run normally until deactivated. I said I'd
>let him take the lim at half value based on the convention used with
>gestures and incantations. That, and he has to pay END into it every phase.
>
>Does this sound reasonable?
Actually, the half value for what you say here is right according the
BBB (last paragraph under Extra Time).
Unless you're charging END for the start-up time, I'd say you're doing
this by the book.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:27:00 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: extra time
At 10:39 AM 1/29/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Hi,
>
>One of my players has a damage shield. He's bought it with the [extra time -
>full turn] limitation. What he wants is to spend a full turn activating the
>damage shield and then have it run normally until deactivated. I said I'd
>let him take the lim at half value based on the convention used with
>gestures and incantations. That, and he has to pay END into it every phase.
>
>Does this sound reasonable?
>
>Brian Wawrow
>Financial Models Company
>
The answer for this already exists... The "bible" states that "If the
power has a lengthy start-up time, but can be used every phase from then
on, then the Limitation value is halved. If the character ever stops
using the power or stops paying END, the power turns off and he must take
the time again to restart the power."
David
AKA Frostfire
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 16:48:54
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:53:50 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
<snip>
>Your interpretation is not unreasonable, but I believe it contains a serious
>flaw. If I apply your interpretation across the board, then it results in a
>significant imbalance. Some Limitations apply to the pool for free (like
>Increased END, NCC, Lim: Only in darkness),
But these Limit the whole MP and thus are valid.
<snip>
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:43:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Perfect Cell
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Without going into a great deal of detail, allow me to describe one
> >of Majin Buu's stunts: He transforms the entire population of a city into
> >small candies, floats them over and eats *all* of them.
>
> Speeeeew. ;-]
Actually, he offs a couple of people that way too. Turns one guy into a
giant gingerbread and snarfs him down in about three bites.
> >Pssst! Bob? My Perfect Cell beats your Devourer of Worlds!
>
> Pointwise, definitely; and he probably could in combat.
"Perfect Cell is the undisputed champion of the universe! And if that
so-called Devouer of Worlds wants to getinto the ring with me, then I'll
have no choice but to lay the smack down! And that's teh bottom line
'cause Perfect Cell said so!"
> I might post the Devourer to the list soon, for comparison. It depends
> on what its fate is re: appearing in TUV or a secondary book, and HG's
> policy about that sort of thing.
It would be... interesting.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We're Americans -- with a capital 'A', huh? Do you know what that means?
Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent
nation on Earth. We are the wretched refuse!"
John Winger (Bill Murray), from _Stripes_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:37:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ?
> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> Curt >2) mage's can allocate their spell casting ability so that they either
> >get more effect from their spell, or suffer less drain in other words,
> >a skilled wizard can cast a spell with less effort, or with greater effect.
>
> That's already covered in the existing Side Effects rules -- the more
> effect you do, the more damage (or other effect) you take.
> ---
I'm either misunderstanding you or haven't been clear myself.
The *base* drain is always a *fixed* amount. Regardless of the
effect /power level / damage you achieve the drain would be the same.
The *actual* drain is dependent on how well you resist it.
So, you always
1) roll for effect 2) roll to resist drain. I'd like the system to model
the flexibility of letting the caster choose whether to use their extra
skill to try for more effect (damage) or less drain.
Actually, since resisting drain and power level are different things,
it might be possible to have a mage who is very skilled at resisting drain,
but only mediocre at casting spells; or a superb spell caster but a weak
one that always takes the maximum drain.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 16:39:30
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:29:18 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, qts wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:11:45 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>>
>> >10 Distinctive Features,"White-Bearded old Man",concealable,
>> > minor
>>
>> Shouldn't this be Public ID: Gandalf the Grey? After all, being old and
>> having a long beard isn't really a DF.
>
>Yes it is. Gandalf's height, dress, age and hairstyle are pretty
>recognizable by many. Actually, Gandalf could almost have both a Public
>ID (many people knew or knew of him) and the DF, since he was fairly easy
>to ID by many people.
Is there any indication that he *always* dresses that way? If not, then
no DF. He looks just like an old man with a beard, and there are plenty
of those. Remember a DF has to be Distinctive - being old and having a
beard are NOT distinctive.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:23:18 +0900
From: Michael House <macross@gol.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The Grey
At 07:29 -0500 1999.01.29, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Yes it is. Gandalf's height, dress, age and hairstyle are pretty
> recognizable by many. Actually, Gandalf could almost have both a Public
> ID (many people knew or knew of him) and the DF, since he was fairly easy
> to ID by many people.
Wouldn't that be Reputation rather than Public ID? People knew of
him, but they didn't necessarily know where to find him at any
given time, as I recall.
Be Seeing You...
- --Michael House, macross@gol.com, www.gainax.co.jp
GAINAX Co., Ltd. (Opinions expressed are my own unless otherwise specified)
"Perfection is achieved only by institutions on the point of collapse."
- --C. Northcote Parkinson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:21:20 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
At 07:28 PM 1/27/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>As related to my OIHID and FOcus thread. (too many loose threads.)
>
>Here is a power construct for a sword.
>
>The sword will cut thru most inanamite objects but not living creatures.
>For living creatures it passes thru them and stuns them. I don't believe
>I have it written up properly yet. So here it is for the list to rip
>apart and put back together (hopefully in better shape.).
>
>
>20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
>END(+1/2)
>
>16 +6d6 HA, only vs. Living Creatures(-1/4), Stun Only(-1/4), OIHID
>(-1/4),OAF (-1/2), 0 END(+1/2), Linked to HKA(-1/2)
>Tim Statler
>
Ok, my $.02 worth...
First of all, a comment on the powers themselves... If it passes through
them to do damage, it sounds like they wouldn't have any real defense
against it and not likely to be any KB, so, instead of +6d6 HA, wouldn't an
3-4d6 NND (+1)attack (Def. is non living things, which would include
robots, undead, etc), 0 END (+1/2), no range (-1/2), linked to the HKA
(-1/2), OIHID (-1/4), "focus" (-1/2) For 4d6, the cost would be... 18 pts.
Close to what it is now and sounds more like the effect.
Now, as for the OIHID and Focus useable together, think about this:
THOR's Hammers (old stories) work on the same principle I believe, that the
hammer is around only in his HID, but can be stolen or cut off from him so
that he cannot use its abilities. The only main difference is the
Hammer/Cane is also how he changes IDs... How does your character change
forms anyway? Automatic I assume... This was really just an example of
how the concept DOES exist in the comics and thus should be able to be
emulated somehow.
My actual "answer" (suggestion) is this:
Use the "Restrainable" Limitation in the Almanac. It states that: "...
this limitation defines an area of the body as generating the power. If
that area is retrained [sic], entangled, or otherwise held, the power is
unusable. As soon as the restrain is gone, the character may use the power
without restriction. Restrainable causes the power to be treated like a
power with an OAF limitation for the purposes of grabs and entangle and is
a -1/2 limitation."
This sounds much more what you are going for. The "area" of the body is
the sword or hands itself. It can be "neutralized" just like a sword. I
figure, if it can be grabbed, it can be "taken away" for the purposes of
special effect only. Since it can be regenerated when he changes forms, it
is not TRULY a focus, merely copying the special effects of one. If he can
get the sword back while still in his HID, then it is no longer restrained.
I hope this all works out however you decide to do it.
David
AKA Frostfire
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:41:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Leah L Watts wrote:
> >20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
> >END(+1/2)
> >
> >16 +6d6 HA, only vs. Living Creatures(-1/4), Stun Only(-1/4), OIHID
> >(-1/4),OAF (-1/2), 0 END(+1/2), Linked to HKA(-1/2)
>
> Using both stun only and only vs. living creatures sounds a bit odd -- is
> the character really going to run into that many non-living things with a
> STUN stat?
True. Actually, my idea would be something like this:
2d6 HKA, does no BODY vs. living things, other limitations as required.
This way you only have one power to write down on your sheet and keep
track of.
I think 'Does no body' is something like a -3/4 or a -1 for a KA. but I
could be wrong...in any case, I wouldn't make 'does no BODY to living
things' more than -1/2 or possibly even -1/4, because of all the potential
/positive/ effects of the limitation.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:18:33 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Power set question.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Power set question.
>At 07:28 PM 1/27/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>>20 2d6 HKA, not vs. living creatures(-1/2),OIHID(-1/4),OAF(-1/2), 0
>>END(+1/2)
>
>
>Unless you're actually carrying the sword when you're not in
>hero id, the OIHID limitation is merely an attempt to shave
>off points without taking any real disadvantage.
>
The whole point of focus oihid is that
the focus is of no use in that form. why would you carry it aorund? that's
like demanding people carry a focus around period so it can have a
chance to be stolen. Focus oihid is a perfectly valid way of portraying
a focus you have in both forms that is useless in one, but in this case
the oihid functions as a bonus from the sound of the description, and
should be bought as such. Do you mean 'carrying' or 'having'?
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #169
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Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:15 PM