Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 209
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:45 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #209
champ-l-digest Thursday, February 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 209
In this issue:
Re:blocking the heavy hits
Re: Reply-To
Re: Reply-To
Re: Reply-To
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: Reply-To
Re: Reply-To
Re: Reply-To
Re: Reply-To
Re: Hopefully the last word on Happy99.exe
Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
Re: Wyrms
RE: Paying END sporadically
Re: Wyrms
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Feb 99 17:40:19 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re:blocking the heavy hits
> AV> Well, when an unarmed normal is facing a normal with a weapon (like
> AV> a knife or sword) he suffers a -2 to his Block (if he just throws
> AV> up his arm and swats the sword aside, it'll likely cut him).
>
> Since other melee weapons are bought with OCV bonuses, this
> tends to cancel out. But an unarmed character does not get those inherent
> 'weapon accuracy' bonuses, so the Block modifier is already there.
I wasn't suggesting a variant... I thought there really was a rule
burried in there somewhere (Ninja Hero maybe?) to that effect.
> AV> Something that simple could work. 8 PD martial artist tries to block
> AV> 60 STR Brick's pushed Haymaker... if it hits, it'll do around 12 BOD to
> AV> him, so, he has to use some finesse, just like he would if he were
> AV> facing a more normal character with a katana or some such, thus, -2
> AV> Block.
>
> To this I have a knee-jerk reaction against. Strength matters almost
> nothing when it comes to neutralizing an attack.
I'm certainly willing to believe that when the strength is in the
relatively human range of 5-25. But, when you're talking huge
differences, I'm not so sure. I, personally prefer the way it works
now. I thought, that the unarmed blocker vs armed attacker rule might
be expanded to cover the extreme situation covered in the thread...
it's certainly a milder penalty to the lower STR character than taking
damage in spite of successfully blocking, as others have suggested.
> Of course, an 8 PD martial artist in a world with 60 STR bricks has
> defenses woefully below what qualifies as a minimum for that type of
> campaign. As the GM I would have required the character to have at least
> 12 PD and ED.
Really? I wouldn't think so... assuming he has the CV to balance it
out, anyway. Of course, such a character would do well to buy up his
BOD and/or consider a little Regeneration...
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:20:43 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Reply-To
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>You see, this is why Reply-To headers pointing to a mailing list are a Bad
>Idea.
>
>Each time (at least most of them) I have posted to the virus thread I have
>included a Reply-To pointing back at myself, specifically so as to remove
>discussion from the list. So much for that idea.
And because this list _doesn't_ reply-to itself normally, everyone is in the
habit of replying to the list as a matter of course and ignoring them.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:44:17 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Reply-To
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
<snip>
>You see, this is why Reply-To headers pointing to a mailing list are a Bad
>Idea.
>
>Each time (at least most of them) I have posted to the virus thread I have
>included a Reply-To pointing back at myself, specifically so as to remove
>discussion from the list. So much for that idea.
It worked fine. However, since Reply-To presently does not point to the
list, pointing it to yourself made no difference- it _always_ points to you.
If you wanted to remove discussion from the list, then why not just reply to
the sender directly, and cut the list out of your reply? I was begining to
wonder why you wanted to include the list; I continued to post to it only
because you seemed to want to, and because the list seemed interested in the
discussion after their brush with that damned worm.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:16:16 -0600
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To
>If you wanted to remove discussion from the list, then why not just reply
to
>the sender directly, and cut the list out of your reply? I was begining to
>wonder why you wanted to include the list; I continued to post to it only
>because you seemed to want to, and because the list seemed interested in
the
>discussion after their brush with that damned worm.
>
>Filksinger
Wyrms!, we've got wyrms on the list! Squire get me my sword! Archers to
the parapets! Alert the King! :-)
Sorry, I am better now.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: 17 Feb 1999 23:54:17 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
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* ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net> 17 Feb 99 17:40:19 MST
| Really? I wouldn't think so... assuming he has the CV to balance it
| out, anyway. Of course, such a character would do well to buy up his
| BOD and/or consider a little Regeneration...
A good rule of thumb is for a character to have defenses sufficient to stop
the average Body damage of his most common attacks. In a 12DC world, any
character with 8 PD and 8DC attacks is going to get nowhere; having a high
CV just means he'll get their faster.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 17 Feb 1999 23:52:21 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Reply-To
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* "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:44:17 -0800
| It worked fine. However, since Reply-To presently does not point to the
| list, pointing it to yourself made no difference- it _always_ points to you.
Oh, lovely. And I thought the other case was bad. Thppt.
| If you wanted to remove discussion from the list, then why not just reply
| to the sender directly, and cut the list out of your reply?
Because there are certain people on this list that insist on diseminating
FUD to the list at large.
No sense in setting a Reply-To since it won't work. Thppt.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:24:58 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Reply-To
>No sense in setting a Reply-To since it won't work. Thppt.
I don't know about other people, but with the version of Eudora I have, I
can't even tell a message to the list from a message to me unless I look at
the header carefully. That's one of the reasons the individual reply-to
default is such a pain in the butt.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 15:58:02
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Reply-To
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:24:58 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>No sense in setting a Reply-To since it won't work. Thppt.
>
>I don't know about other people, but with the version of Eudora I have, I
>can't even tell a message to the list from a message to me unless I look at
>the header carefully. That's one of the reasons the individual reply-to
>default is such a pain in the butt.
I use PMMail and have two options: either reply to the sender, or reply
to all. The latter is very useful for sending a copy to the original
sender.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:39:49 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Reply-To
At 07:59 PM 2/17/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>You see, this is why Reply-To headers pointing to a mailing list are a Bad
>Idea.
>
>Each time (at least most of them) I have posted to the virus thread I have
>included a Reply-To pointing back at myself, specifically so as to remove
>discussion from the list. So much for that idea.
You could always try replying privately yourself, or stating, "Please
reply privately and not to the list."
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:13:11 GMT
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: Hopefully the last word on Happy99.exe
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:56:24 -0800, "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> sent
these symbols into the net:
>Apparently, this thing is spreading rapidly in some areas, especially among
>computer professionals. It is very new, which explains why my anti-virus
>didn't catch it (though the latest DAT files from McAfee did).
>
>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2208275,00.html
>
>Apparently, as I appear to be the only one infected, this list handled it
>better than a great many computer professionals. Now I feel embarrassed for
>my entire profession.:)
Not quite, I saved the thing to disk and ran it through my out-dated copy
of F-Prot, which didn't catch it. Fortunately, that thing's easy to get rid
of, but it *does* tell me I've gotten a bit careless in my old age, I
really *must* get updates when F-prot tells me they're needed.
**********************************************************************
*Lissajous patterns and windmills and don't ask about the connection.*
* Acid Rainbow: Semi-professional windmill-tilter. *
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:13:09 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Wyrms
From: J. Alan Easley <alaneasley@email.com>
<snip>
>Wyrms!, we've got wyrms on the list! Squire get me my sword! Archers to
>the parapets! Alert the King! :-)
>
>Sorry, I am better now.
Don't apologize. It is more relevant to the list than the previous
discussion has become.
I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
they, and did they have any unusual features?
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:50:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Filksinger wrote:
> I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
> they, and did they have any unusual features?
I had a dragon show up in a Champions game once. His name was
Soldotanmangel which is supposed to be German and is supposed to translate
to "Soldier Mangler". Anyway, this was a huge dragon, with wings, a long
neck, tail etc. He could fly and breathe fire as well. His one
interesting scthick was a sort of widescale mindlink to communicate, so
you could hear him speak to you even though his mouth didn't move. For
some reason that freaked some of my PCs.
In my Silent Mobius game I had another dragon appear. This was an
oriental dragon, so it looked like a snake with legs. That one could spew
forth lightning, created rain upon appearence and few by running on the
air. Oh yeah, when shot at by a PC I told the player: "Yes you hit, no it
didn't do anything to your target, don't bother to roll damage..."
Not that the dragon was that tough, but more that I wastrying to set up a
sense of power.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Go-Go-Gadget Thermonuclear Device!"
William K. "Bushmaster" Bushway
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:08:10 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Wyrms
>Don't apologize. It is more relevant to the list than the previous
>discussion has become.
>
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
>they, and did they have any unusual features?
>
>Filksinger
In the only FH campaign I ran to date, there were two kinds of dragons:
Lesser Dragons which were just powerful monsters, and Greater Dragons, which
were quasi-transcendent beings that could ride the winds between the planes
of Creation, and were in eternal war with the equally great Panthers
(heraldic panthers, not the zoological kind).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:51:25 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
>On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Filksinger wrote:
>
>> I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
>> they, and did they have any unusual features?
In one game in which I played , our team ran into a huge dragon, one of the
four
elementals who held the physical world together. It's roar was a Presence
attack. Our martial artist simply became catatonic, our power-armor
guy wet his armor and my 40-Presence angel was so scared he dropped
his sword.
We never went back. When we had to fight another of the elementals,
we made damn sure we had a secret weapon! But we all still talk about it.
Right up there with the time we dropped the Washington Monument on a
bad guy...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Do not despise the lore that has come down from
distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives
keep in memory word of things that once it were
needful for the wise to know."
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:57 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful
were
>they, and did they have any unusual features?
>
>Filksinger
>
>
One of my first Champions characters was Glow-Wyrm, an otherwise
ordinary scientist who could turn into a dragon. Not that he was much
of a dragon, mind you, only about 8' long, but he was worth around 200
points. His only notable power (aside from the usual scaly skin, fiery
breath, sharp teeth, etc.) was a 0 END, Persistent, Always On Area
Effect Flash with Personal Immunity. After all, he was the GLOW-Wyrm...
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:45:56 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
>they, and did they have any unusual features?
The Dragons in my Fantasy Hero game range from 400-700 points, depending on
age (they come in various colors but they arent color coded as to morality
or power). They are all very powerful, but the most powerful ones have the
classic dragon powers like acid blood and hypnotic stare, the ability to
blind people with dust by their wings, use magic, etc. Dragons are the
pinnacle of power in my world, then there are extradimensional beings that
are more points.
But they tend to stay on their own, most of them are actually scholars, and
for the right price can answer any question. Their loot usually comes from
this, and from cleaning out the lair they have chosen. Dragons also make
really nice equipment, from their bones and scales, although if they see
this kind of equipment it typically does not behoove one to you.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 23:31:03
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:13:09 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
>they, and did they have any unusual features?
In my first campaign I had four dragons. The first was insanely
powerful but really a plot device - Uthax was marshal of the forces of
light - but with a weakness for coffee. The other three were a family:
the PCs rescued the hatchling dragon, which was about as powerful as
the PCs, and had to return it to the parents, which were very much more
powerful than the PCs (4d6K claws, 10d6K breath) but not unbeatable.
They became contacts for the PCs.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:21:16 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
> One of my first Champions characters was Glow-Wyrm, an otherwise
> ordinary scientist who could turn into a dragon. Not that he was much
> of a dragon, mind you, only about 8' long, but he was worth around 200
> points. His only notable power (aside from the usual scaly skin, fiery
> breath, sharp teeth, etc.) was a 0 END, Persistent, Always On Area
> Effect Flash with Personal Immunity. After all, he was the GLOW-Wyrm...
For some reason, I'm not sure if I should groan here.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:57:28 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
At 02:45 PM 2/18/1999 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>The Dragons in my Fantasy Hero game range from 400-700 points, depending on
>age (they come in various colors but they arent color coded as to morality
>or power). They are all very powerful, but the most powerful ones have the
>classic dragon powers like acid blood and hypnotic stare, the ability to
>blind people with dust by their wings...
That last sounds like it should be a martial arts manuever for dragons, a
little someting extra for Dirty Infighting. Just like tossing a handful of
sand at an opponent's face, except that if the dragon is fighting much
smaller opponents, the blinding effect might be AoE.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:31:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
At 11:13 AM 2/18/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were
>they, and did they have any unusual features?
The only time I recall using a dragon in a game (other than That Gygax
Game, where I went so strictly By The Book it isn't even funny) was when a
group of about four or five intrepid adventurers (I forget exactly) had to
go retrieve something from a cave where a supposedly "young" dragon was
living.
This critter had mostly the regular dragon powers: it could fly (or
could have, had they encountered it outdoors), and big honkin' teeth and
claws, and breathed flame. After the PCs failed to sneak past it, they
lost one of their number to the flames and took serious injuries on two
others before they killed it.
Then, just as one of the survivors grabbed the main item they were
after, a loud but childish voice from further in the cavern cried out,
"Mommy! They hurt Foo-Foo!"
That was when the PCs decided upon the better part of valor.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 18 Feb 99 17:37:43 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Paying END sporadically
>>>I have considered this, but it doesn't work quite right. For most
uses, yes, that would be best, but what if I want a power that costs
full END plus extra when an attack occurs?
For example, a Force Field that costs full END until I am hit, then
costs x2 END. I could put a Limitation on a Limitation (x2 END, only
when hit), but several people have claimed in the past that this
should be illegal. Instead, I am using the Limited Power Limitation,
which is legal. Note that any case where a Limited Limitation appears
to be the best answer, this could be done, so long as the initial
Limitation was not a -1/4.Filksinger<<<
Hm... that's starting to sound a bit like Instant. In the sense that,
each time you use that force field, you pay the END on it. No, that's
not how you'd build it, per se, but it does give you an idea of what
that Limited Power Limitation might be worth.
Actually, I did something like that once... a Force Wall that cost
extra END for each BOD of damage that hit it... can't remember how
I built it, though...
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:20:57 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Wyrms
>>The Dragons in my Fantasy Hero game range from 400-700 points, depending on
>>age (they come in various colors but they arent color coded as to morality
>>or power). They are all very powerful, but the most powerful ones have the
>>classic dragon powers like acid blood and hypnotic stare, the ability to
>>blind people with dust by their wings, use magic, etc.
>
>How "classic" are acid blood, hypnotic stare, and (... oh, blind people the
>same way helicopters do) magic in dragons?
>
>Except for the spells, it's not standard for AD&D.
nope it isn't, I meant standard for classic dragons of myth and legend, for
example in ring cycle, the dragon's blood actually corroded and destroyed
weapons (it was poisonous to touch as well), and its gaze fascinated people
who saw it's eyes. We are talking VERY old stories, not circa 1978
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #209
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Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:35 AM