From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:43 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #210 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Friday, February 19 1999        Volume 01 : Number 210 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Wyrms 
    Re: Wyrms 
    Re: Wyrms 
    Is San Angelo too mundane? 
    Re: Wyrms 
    Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
    test-o-rama 
    Re: test-o-rama 
    Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
    Back from DunDraCon 
    Re: [ Is San Angelo too mundane?] 
    Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:18:51 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Wyrms 
 
>>The Dragons in my Fantasy Hero game range from 400-700 points, depending on 
>>age (they come in various colors but they arent color coded as to morality 
>>or power).  They are all very powerful, but the most powerful ones have the 
>>classic dragon powers like acid blood and hypnotic stare, the ability to 
>>blind people with dust by their wings... 
> 
>That last sounds like it should be a martial arts manuever for dragons, a 
>little someting extra for Dirty Infighting.  Just like tossing a handful of 
>sand at an opponent's face, except that if the dragon is fighting much 
>smaller opponents, the blinding effect might be AoE. 
 
yeah actually its bought as an area effect: radius flash 1D6, not 
especially powerful but rather annoying for warriors.  The Dragon likes to 
make passes with its breath, magic, and claws, then comes down for a big 
blast of blinding dust and takes out the most powerful warriors, or thus is 
the theory... nobody has wanted to actually fight one. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:02:05 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Wyrms 
 
Filksinger wrote: 
 
> I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were 
> they, and did they have any unusual features? 
 
	I am actually running a dragon PC at the moment, currently running 
around 350 points.  VERY big, in the order of 30 metres nose to tail.  
Is also used by the party for death from below attacks, where we burrow 
into the enemy camp avoiding all the nasties that are trying to put 
holes in us. 
 
	Oh, yes.  Can also detect gold at range which was very useful when we 
were trying to find the secret safe with the plans in it.  We are also 
looking into going in the treasure hunting business off the Florida 
coast. 
 
	She is actually being played in a fun campaign of a group of immortals 
getting together to form a club with members you know are going to be 
around long enough to have a really good argument with.  Just to pass 
the time, we also hire out for mercenary work (although we save people 
for free) 
 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:22:52 +1000 
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Wyrms 
 
Hmm, well fro wierd you can't go past psycodelicas borgus, 
the dragon with psycadelic cybernetic implants. Basically 
he recieved very advanced surgery after a nasty battle, and 
to kepe up with his draconic body the implants used were 
basically made of a wierd for of umf, or unstable molecules. 
It was kind of meant ot be a fluctuating matter almost in energy form 
which reacted wierdly to various em bands, so they strobed with colored 
light and looked like fractals and stuff when he was active, including a 
single cyberoptic. He was pretty strong, tough and stuff, too. 
 
And i mentioned a problem player a while ago? his latest character- a 
dragon who i'd originally set up with a variable advantage/sfx hka (to 
representing various dragon attacks) and some good ize and so fourth. 
He asked to rediesign it, and for some reason, came back with an 18d6 
ego blast in a multipower. Aparently the beastie needed it to hunt DEER. . . 
. 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> 
>Don't apologize. It is more relevant to the list than the previous 
>discussion has become. 
> 
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful were 
>they, and did they have any unusual features? 
> 
>Filksinger 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:00:24 -0500 
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> 
Subject: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
 
I have a feeling that I'm the only person who feels this way, but I thought 
I'd stick my neck out and see if there's anyone else.  As great as everyone 
says San Angelo is, I've never been able to bring myself to read it for 
extended periods of time.  There's just too much mundane information in it, 
like a "real life" travel guide, to hold my interest.  In contrast, the New 
Millennium setting is chock full of superhero info (non-mundane, I guess 
you could say) such as The Pit, the Wildstrike, and the various secret 
societies.  Bay City seems so much more exciting to me, simply because it 
focuses on the superhero element rather than going into every aspect of the 
city.  Maybe my complaint is that San Angelo has too much detail to plow 
through in order to get the the superpowered meat.  I really want to love 
San Angelo, but I can never sit down with it long enough to get a good feel 
for it, because I get tired of reading about "everyday" stuff.  I'll be 
firing up a Champions (Hero System) campaign soon, and at this point I 
think I'll be using Bay City, even though that book is presented in terms 
of the Fuzion rules...the setting is exciting enough that I'm willing to do 
the extra work. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:15:37 -0800 
From: Jay P Hailey <jayphailey@juno.com> 
Subject: Re: Wyrms 
 
>I'm curious; in campaigns where people have had dragons, how powerful  
>were they, and did they have any unusual features? 
> 
>Filksinger 
 
I borrowed parts of a write up from an AQ magazine that speculated that 
Dragons hoard gold because it acts as leverage for their telepathy. Also 
the bits about the telepathic Dragon-Net. 
 
I also tried for a non-human thought process. Dragons have eggs and then 
leave them behind to fend for themselves.  Dragons are territorial, and 
drive off or kill any competetior for food, gold, maidens and etc.  
Dragons are telepathic.  Sometimes older Dragons will "mentor" younger 
ones in the arts of psionics, assuming they don't eat the younger ones or 
drive them away. 
 
So in our steal of "The House That Jack Built" The creature written up as 
Puff turned into C.K.  A very recently hatched dragon with a taste for 
house cats.   
 
PC: "What's your name?" 
 
Dragon: "....  Cat Killer!" 
 
PC: "How about C.K.?" 
 
Dragon: "I'd prefer your highness..." 
 
etc.  
 
C.K. Adopted/was adopted by the party mentalist. C.K. was approximately 
two feet long and was still hard to get in under point balance.  
 
C.K. was an avowed coward. Little dragons don't live long by being brave. 
C.K. was greedy, and had a talent for negotation and finance, and an 
obsession with gold.  The PCs could smetimes bribe C.K. into performing 
useful tasks with bits of gold. In some ways C.K. wound up resembling a 
minature, scaly, flying Ferengi, witha small pocket flame thrower.  C.K. 
hid his gold near the PCs base of operations, and would never believe 
that even his closest friends weren't out to tail him and boost all of 
his gold.  Any other Dragon would run him off and absorb his small stash. 
 
C.K. left active play when he was involved in the rescue of a very rich 
inventor.  A large pile of gold can make a dragon very brave indeed.  The 
Inventor agreed to pay, and C.K. went forth into battle gleefully.  The 
battle was one, C.K. was paid well (in pure gold), and promptly retired 
to a life as a high financier well away from the PCs. 
 
Not that C.K. didn't like his pet monkies, especially the mentalist, but 
life around them was *dangerous*.  And besides, any dragon with that much 
gold had to find one hell of a place to hole up, hide his stash and join 
intothe D-Net. 
 
Three other Dragons of this type appeared in play.  In ascending order, a 
young, middle aged and old dragon.  They were son, father and 
grandfather.  They joined in a major attack on the PC's home city (For a 
large pile of gold, of course) Another PC mentalist defeated the young 
dragon on mental combat and was holding off the middle one.  The older 
one got an idea, and threatened the PCs with vengeance for huting a 
member of his family. (actually the youngsters own fault. Attacking 
heroes without back up just meant a two way split for the gold rather 
than a three way.) and then let the PCs understand that they might buy 
off the angry Dragons with enough gold.  
 
Another large pile of gold later. the Dragon's part of the battle was 
over.  The PC's were much poorer, but the major attack was foiled for 
lack of air support. Dragons stay bought just so long as you've offered 
them the most gold.  Dragons understand mercenary ethics and can 
intelligently judge a business propsition, but they do have a thing for 
gold. 
 
Older Dragons are physically and mentally very powerful and no one to 
mess with unless you're sure of your abilities.  They can even know 
magic, for a triple threat. (Older dragons sometimes take up magic as a 
hobby) 
 
Dragons life spans are open ended usually ending in violence, accident or 
transcendence to a higher plain of existence. 
 
and of course in the end-  There's more than one type of Dragon, and so 
these rules only apply to some dragons. 
 
 
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> 
 
 "Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash 
 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:43:54 -0700 
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net> 
Subject: Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
 
David Stallard wrote: 
>  
> I have a feeling that I'm the only person who feels this way, but I thought 
> I'd stick my neck out and see if there's anyone else.  As great as everyone 
> says San Angelo is, I've never been able to bring myself to read it for 
> extended periods of time.   
 
I had this problem to begin with, I would recomend reading short pieces 
at a time, and most importantly, read all the little qoutes and such as 
they come up in the layout of the text, this is what brings the 
superhero feel to the book. They also break up the 'mundane' parts up, 
and some of them are quite interesting and humorous. 
 
- -Mhoram 
 
I mean, Karmicly, self defence is really quite cool.  
  Dr. Cozy Carlisle      Dead Again 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:37:24 -0500 
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> 
Subject: test-o-rama 
 
Hi, 
 
Am I back in the game here? 
 
Brian Wawrow 
Financial Models Company 
 
"Do or do not. There is no try."  
- - Yoda  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:06:00 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: test-o-rama 
 
At 03:37 PM 2/19/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote: 
>Hi, 
> 
>Am I back in the game here? 
 
   Looks like it.  :-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:44:18 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
 
At 04:10 PM 2/19/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote: 
>From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> 
>Subject: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l-digest@sysabend.org> 
> 
>I have a feeling that I'm the only person who feels this way, but I thought 
>I'd stick my neck out and see if there's anyone else.  As great as everyone 
>says San Angelo is, I've never been able to bring myself to read it for 
>extended periods of time.  There's just too much mundane information in it, 
>like a "real life" travel guide, to hold my interest.  In contrast, the New 
>Millennium setting is chock full of superhero info (non-mundane, I guess 
>you could say) such as The Pit, the Wildstrike, and the various secret 
>societies.  Bay City seems so much more exciting to me, simply because it 
>focuses on the superhero element rather than going into every aspect of the 
>city.  Maybe my complaint is that San Angelo has too much detail to plow 
>through in order to get the the superpowered meat.  I really want to love 
>San Angelo, but I can never sit down with it long enough to get a good feel 
>for it, because I get tired of reading about "everyday" stuff.  I'll be 
>firing up a Champions (Hero System) campaign soon, and at this point I 
>think I'll be using Bay City, even though that book is presented in terms 
>of the Fuzion rules...the setting is exciting enough that I'm willing to do 
>the extra work. 
 
   I dunno that you're the *only* person that feels that way, but I am 
certainly on the other side of the fence. 
   Being able to quickly get to the superhero "meat" is always good, but 
there's a lot to be said for the "potatoes" of everyday folks.  When PCs 
are discussing a case over dinner, for example, it's always a nice bit of 
atmosphere to have it take place not just at "a restaurant" or "a nice 
little Mexican place around the corner, but at Twister's, Ekaterina's, Las 
Palomas, etc., with their unique backgrounds, reputations, etc. 
   Plus, a lot of the apparently "mundane" stuff can lead to a super story. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:55:25 EST 
From: GoldRushG@aol.com 
Subject: Back from DunDraCon 
 
  Greetings, all. We're back from DunDraCon and I must say it was a great 
show. We debuted the DarkTown RPG and also had San Angelo: City of Heroes 
there, as well as a good collection of chanbara videos (which still seem to be 
growing in popularity). Unfortunately Enemies of San Angelo wasn't released 
yet, but we had several pages printed up in a preview for folks to check out. 
 
  It was great seeing our old friends and fellows fromprevious DunDraCons, 
like Aaron Allston, Rob Miles, Eric Rowe, Steve Long, Bill Robinson, Mike 
Pondsmith, Nicole Lindroos, Gary Townsend, Matt Iskra and everyone else, as 
well as meeting some new faces, like Chris Pramas, Bryant Durrell, James 
Jandebeur and others. Pat "San Angelo" Sweeney and Michelle Knight came up for 
Saturday. We wished you guys could've stayed longer, but it was nice seeing 
you guys there, nonetheless. 
 
  And, as always, it was great meeting the fans and players out there. Thank 
you to everyone who came by the GRG booth and inquired about upcoming 
products, including Sengoku -- there were many of you!. ;) 
 
  We had a great time with the Hero Games gang. I ran a Sengoku demo for them 
and a few of our regular playtesters, and that adventure was a blast! I also 
ran an Usagi Yojimbo RPG demo which was attended by several rabbit, er, 
"rabbid" Usagi fans and a good time was had by all. 
 
  A shout out to James Jandebeur and Bryant Durrell, two of our authors on 
upcoming San Angelo supplements, for coming by to press the flesh and put in 
some time at the GRG booth. Thanks also to Ken Pryde and Rich Sagely for 
helping to staff the booth. Thanks, guys! 
 
  Ken graciously offered to run Sengoku games not once but twice! Amazingly 
enough, throughout the development of Sengoku I have run the game many, many 
times, but this was my first opportunity to actually play in the game. I had a 
blast. Amakura-san, the partying sohei (warrior monk) had a great time. ;) 
 
  The "Meet Gold Rush Games" seminar was attended by a relatively small group, 
but the message is getting out. Those that were there got the latest news 
about upcoming products, including a rundown of San Angelo supplements that 
are in the works. 
 
  The Hero Games party Saturday night was a pleasant get together. The crowd 
never got rowdy and lots of chat among friends, both old and new. 
 
  I wasn feeling under the weather Sunday, however, and missed the traditional 
Special Violence Task Force game, Steve Long's traditional convention Dark 
Champions game. But I understand that everyone managed to keep the especially 
violent gaming tradition alive for another year, including new SVTF member 
Chris Pramas. <Bang!> "Stop or I'll shoot!" Sorry I missed it, guys. 
 
  Well, overall I say the show was a great success, and we are already making 
plans for a *big* event next year. No secrets being spilled yet, but DunDraCon 
2000 is one West Coast convention you will *not* want to miss! 
 
  Thanks again to everyone. We had a blast. 
 
  Mark @ GRG 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 19 Feb 99 15:19:28 MST 
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: [ Is San Angelo too mundane?] 
 
 David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> wrote: 
>Maybe my complaint is that San Angelo has too much detail to plow 
> through in order to get the the superpowered meat.   
 
I think that's rather the point.  San Angelo is supposed to present 
a setting where the PCs get to be the premier super-heroes.  Can't 
do that if there's a well-developed meaty super-team already there. 
 
Personally, I think it's a great idea - San Angelo presents all the 
sort of information I wouldn't want to think about, while leaving 
room for any nifty 'super stuff' I or my players might want to add. 
 
I don't generally like setting books, I like to come up with my own 
settings, and always have.  San Angelo is the first setting book in 
a long, long time that I'd consider using... 
 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:27:22 EST 
From: Pat10355@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Is San Angelo too mundane? 
 
 David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> wrote: 
>Maybe my complaint is that San Angelo has too much detail to plow 
> through in order to get the the superpowered meat. 
 
My premise for including a great deal of information about ordinary San Angelo 
and less on the superpowered scene was really twofold. 
 
First, I presumed that most Champions GMs don't need much help coming up with 
supervillains, evil agencies, talking apes, etc. Most have binders full of 
such things, and, in fact, are likely to throw out or drastically revise 
anything along those lines I wrote to fit in their own ideas. I know I did as 
a GM reading the old Hero Games books for Champions. 
 
I felt that what most Champions GMs probably needed was a solid background 
with details on city government, public safety agencies, neighborhoods, 
entertainment venues, TV stations, etc. -- all the real-life things that most 
GMs either forget about or don't know enough about to create. After all, when 
you've got a game to run tomorrow, you can't really run to the library to find 
out what a medical examiner does, or how a police department is organized. 
 
As I worked on SA:CoH, I kept thinking of a comment someone had made early on 
in the writing process -- "I was thinking about having a supervillain kidnap 
the mayor, but then I realized I didn't know what a mayor does or whether it 
would matter if the villain killed him." :) 
 
Secondly, I wanted to avoid overshadowing PCs by creating a lot of highly 
experienced, very cool superheroes with a long history of fighting a lot of 
supervillains, criminal agencies, etc. in the city. 
 
Plus, I didn't want to preset the course of GMs' campaigns. I knew GMs would 
be using SA:CoH for many different types of campaigns, from the Avengers-JLA 
type teams to X-Men style outcasts to solo vigilantes. The more detail I 
included on the superpowered end of things, the more of those options I 
closed, I felt. 
 
As others have pointed out, one of the major reasons behind the quotes was to 
spice up text detailing more everyday types of information and retain a 
"superhuman" feel throughout the book no matter what the topic on any given 
page might be. 
 
Anyway, those are some of the reasons for the form that SA:CoH took. 
 
Patrick Sweeney 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #210 
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