Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 252
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:50 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #252
champ-l-digest Tuesday, March 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 252
In this issue:
Re: Swingers
Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Re: Swingers
Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
Re: Mechanon Invasion
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: Swingers
Re: Swingers
RE: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: Swingers
Re: Swingers
Re: Swingers
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Melissa Virus
Re: Swingers
No Conscious Control
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Re: No Conscious Control
Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
RE: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:18:08 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Swingers
>>What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills, rather
>>than powers? Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
>>hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)? Isnt any power that
>>logically requires a focus a skill? I dunno just seems like to me, why
>>isn't climbing a power (I have 45" of climbing, just start going UP and
>>I'll catch you).
>
>First of all, neither of them logically requires a focus; someone could have
>either as a power (I've had a character who swung by eminating little
>telekinetic lines.) And there _are_ differences between the speeds of
>gliders; it has to do with amount of drag and loft. In the case of
>swinging, the issue is the length of the line. And there _is_ a powered
>version of climbing; it's called Clinging.
Just a pet peeve of mine, if I made the game it wouldn't have gliding at
all (this is simply flight with appropriate limitations DELETE) and
swinging would be a skill just like climbing. Oh well, I'm sure everyone
has little bits like this they would change (AVLD/NND and BOECV is another
of mine)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:13:40 -0500
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campuscwix.net>
Subject: Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
At 08:09 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>* "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
>| No. You're thinking of Drain or Transfer, Always On, not Absorption.
>
>No, I am thinking of how Always On works as a Limitation.
>
>| Absorption does not normally do any of the things you describe.
>
>Since an electric coffee maker costs 0 active points, neither will Drain or
>Transfer.
Transform (ground coffee to liguid coffee)? :D
Seriously, I think whats being said is that using "Always on" like that is
running a Power Modifier as a character Disadvantage, as was discussed with
No Consious Control some weeks ago.
Email Address change:Please update to the following:
nexus@uky.campuscwix.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:32:26 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
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> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
> | No. You're thinking of Drain or Transfer, Always On, not Absorption.
>
> No, I am thinking of how Always On works as a Limitation.
Always On, as a Limitation, only applies if the problems that ensue are a
direct result of the use of the power when you don't want to. A Force Field
that prevents you from eating; TK that creates an invisible giant hand that
keeps getting in the way; EB that destroys things around you all the time.
It doesn't apply to odd events that are a side effect of the Power, but
which are not caused by the Power itself. Those would either be
Disadvantages or Side Effects.
> | Absorption does not normally do any of the things you describe.
>
> Since an electric coffee maker costs 0 active points, neither will Drain
or
> Transfer.
Then you end up with inconsistencies such as electronic devices that only
fail if they don't cost points, or possibly when it costs points but is a
good thing for the hero. but which somehow never go wrong if they are worth
points and bad for the hero. Such inconsistencies are generally to be
avoided.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:45:00 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Swingers
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
>
> >> What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills,
rather
> >> than powers?
> >
> >Er...I really don't see why. You could have a skill with your gliding
> >(say) to represent the fact that you were good at it - there's already
> >mechanics for 'skill levels with flight'.
>
> Because they make more sense to me as skills than powers?
They make more sense to me as Powers than Skills.
> >> Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
> >> hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)?
> >
> >Because they're Movement Powers, and the way you rate how powerful a
> >Movement Power is is by how fast it lets you go. It makes as much sense
> >as giving speeds to Running or Flight.
>
> Yes I understand how mechanics work, thank you sir, what I'm referring to
> is how absurd that is.
Why is it absurd? Different gliders _do_ travel at different speeds.
Attempting to exceed these speeds puts you into a dive and can rip off your
wings. A plane-like glider that is launched into the air by being pulled by
a plane, for example, will easily outdistance a hang glider.
> >> Isnt any power that
> >> logically requires a focus a skill?
>
> >a) No.
I must agree. If that were the case, RKA would be a Skill, HKA would be a
Skill, etc. In real life, virtually all powers require Foci; this does not
make them Skills. Skills are used to run the Foci. In fact, you are more
likely to need a Focus for a Power than a Skill; most Skills do not require
Foci.
> >b) Neither Swinging not Gliding logically require a Focus. Real World
> >Example: Flying Squirrels have the Gliding power but no Focus. Monkeys
> >(as well as Tarzan and other brachiators) could be said to have the
> >Swinging power with several limitations, but not Focus.
>
> Define how you swing with no focus in the real world (in game terms, ok
you
> could create an 'energy tendril') but I am referring to examples in
> literature and real world.
He just did. Tarzan, monkeys, and apes. Furthermore, you cannot define a RKA
in the real world that doesn't use a Focus, Flight that doesn't use a Focus,
Clinging that doesn't use a Focus, Life Support that doesn't use a Focus,
etc., etc. This does not make them Skills, in fact, it may be what makes
them Pow3ers.
> >> I dunno just seems like to me, why
> >> isn't climbing a power (I have 45" of climbing, just start going UP and
> >> I'll catch you).
> >
> >You can do super-fast climbing in several ways. IIRC, your Climbing
Speed
> >is based on your ground speed.
> >
> >1) Clinging + Running (only affects climbing speed -1 1/2)
> >
> >2) Flight (must be touching a solid surface -?)
> >
> >Either of these could be bought with Requires Skill Roll (Climbing) if
you
> >like.
>
> Is it my complete obscurity or did you just miss the point?
Actually, your point seems to contradict your previous point. You previously
claimed that Swinging should be a Skill because it requires a focus, asked
why Climbing wasn't a Power. The answer is simple; people without Foci can
have Climbing, but can't normally have Swinging. Thus, climbing is a skill,
but swinging is a power.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:57:08 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
At 05:34 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>At 02:00 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I didn't explain that very clearly (as evidenced by the fact
>>that at least one other person had the same misunderstanding). What I
>>meant was that, once the Entangle between the two is broken, they two are
>>no longer tied together.
>
>
>Well, I'm always a firm believer in keeping it simple. Even if the
>Rules Lords can find some technical faults with it, at least you've
>got something to work with. Try this: Just define it as a series
>of separate Entangles, bought through the focus. The special effect
>is that everybody in this entangle is stuck together. Then, the
>targets can try to break free of their individual cuffs (i.e. break
>the entangle), or try to separate their section of the chain from
>the other parts of the chain (i.e. target the focus, which is breakable).
Well, I'm interested in hearing from the Rules Lords, but I think you
may be on to something here: just build the restraint with a number of
Charges (or clips of Charges, if one character is paying points for
multiple restraints), with the number of Charges representing the number of
individuals that can be restrained that way, and then just say by
definition that all Charges in a single Clip are tied to each other.
This has the advantage of being able to Entangle a number of targets
together, but this is balanced by the limitation of being unable to
Entangle targets that are separated by space -- for exaple, you can't cuff
a target in one room, and another at the opposite end of the building.
This *may* be the way I end up going, unless someone comes up with
something that is both clearly rules-legal and simple in execution.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:03:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mechanon Invasion
At 03:57 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, David Stallard wrote:
>I'm not confident this made it to the list, so I'm sending it one more
>time:
It did; I think that most folks, like myself, just didn't have any
immediate feedback.
>* Mechanon makes another announcement, saying that some rogue paranormals
>have been skirmishing with his army and it will not be tolerated.
>Paranormals should surrender immediately, as the robot army has been
>ordered to kill them on sight. <end session 2>
>
>This is as far as we've gotten. I don't have any hard and fast plans for
>the next session, but I want to have a scenario where the heroes are
>amongst refugees and one (or more) of them turns out to be one of those
>disguise-bots from the MAVRIC adventure...sorta like something out of the
>Terminator movies, 'cept not so invincible. Just something to make them
>watch their back. I'm hoping for some "underground resistance" type
>scenarios but it depends on what the heroes do. I think Mechanon is
>probably rounding up humans to help him increase the size and power of his
>army so that he can conquer more of the world than just Bay City. Oh, the
>missing Champions--I'm going to have them be prisoners of some arch-foe of
>theirs, and the PC group will have to break them out. Nice way for the PCs
>to meet the Champions and not feel like they are inferior or less
>important. This will be a separate adventure that will happen after the
>invasion is resolved.
>
>Anyway, let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions for the
>rest of the story!
This much looks great, even though I was only able to lightly skim it
right now (I'll probably go into it more deeply some time tomorrow).
You've had a good investigative phase; now, with the heat turned up to
full, I'd say it's time to switch to a combat-intensive mode, with just
enough further investigation to move things forward. When the disguised
bot attacks, the PCs will probably destroy it, and when they do they may
find some clue as to Mechanon's whereabouts. Then it's just a matter of
getting past the snipers to confront the Big Boss. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:58:11 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
<Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.>
Nope completely blinded. My favorite item is 75% Damage Reduction vs. PD
& ED IIF " Bracers of Defence ". Did I mis-read the rules or am I not
understanding Rat's comment. actually I prefer to do the reduction
before the defences as a house rule. It allows a low defence charecter
to not take damage from every attack
Does anyone allow Damage Reduction vs SFX ( any magic, high tech,
ect...) or Vs. advantages ( all NNDs ) WITH a good definition instead of
Vs. PD and/or ED with the appropriate limitations
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:12:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> At 04:57 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering with converting
> >a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero terms.
> >First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed back is gretly
> >appreciated.
> >
As a side note, I intend to offer up the Blink Dog and the Type V demon.
These two (plus the Beholder) where the three most 'interesting' creatures
from the old MM. I *might* (might mind you) take a swing at Demogorgon,
Orcus and Jubilex, if only to try and figure out their powers. I also
will be offering some conversions for creatures from the GURPS
Fantasy Bestiary (and a few otehr sources) later on.
> >Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> >15 STR 0 12- 200kg; 3d6
>
> What does this strength represent, since it has neither manipulatory
> limbs nor even legs? The STR of it's bite? I'd be inclined to give it
> a lesser STR (maybe 10?) and increase the raw damage of the
> bite. That's a -big- mouth.
I orignally gave it a 10 STR, but then realized that 1 Level of Growth
gave it a base of 15. Yes, I figure it is the STR of the bite. If I
increase the raw damage of the bite, I'll make it Reduced Penetration.
> >24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
>
> One of the classic things about the Beholder is that it was among
> the first D&D monsters with multiple armor classes. You could
> represent this with a limitation that the eyestalks and central eye
> have a lesser DEF. Eyestalks: 6 DEF, Central Eye: 4. Called
> Shots, anybody?
I was trying to simplify matters. I was thinking of giving it a
Vulnerability to 'called' shots.
And ideas on how to simulate lopping off the small eyes? I was thinking
of going for a 'OIF' lim on the multipower, inwhich the -1/2 lim wasn't
for a focus per se, but to represent the fact that the eyes are 'outside'
of the base DEF.
> See, the thing about that central eye is that eveyone wants to target it,
> but by definition, if you can see it, it can see you, and neutralize
> any magic you might be trying to use against it...
Yeah, a very good point there.
> Also, how about some enhanced perception modifiers for sight?
I was thinking that. But only for the main eye I think.
> Other than that, it looks good!
Thanks!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist,
but you have ceased to live."
Mark Twain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:15:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >>24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
> >
> >One of the classic things about the Beholder is that it was among
> >the first D&D monsters with multiple armor classes. You could
> >represent this with a limitation that the eyestalks and central eye
> >have a lesser DEF. Eyestalks: 6 DEF, Central Eye: 4. Called
> >Shots, anybody?
>
> I agree, the multiple AC's/DEF are important. However, as I recall D&D
> Beholders also have a lot of Hit Dice. In this conversion, their base DCV
> is 6. Sure, a -8 location modifer for the central eye would bump that up to
> 14, but that's still an achievable hit in most FH games, and a sword can
> get a lot of damage past a 4 DEF. It seems a bit weaker than the terrors I
> remember from D&D. Perhaps a higher STUN & BODY are in order.
The Beholder has 45-75 HP in the version of the MM I have (no hit dice
listed..how does it bite anyone?) Anyway, using the AD&D to Hero
conversion charts in FH, I got the numbers you see. Fiddling with the
STUN & BODY isn't a problem.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist,
but you have ceased to live."
Mark Twain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:16:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Jack Scarecrow wrote:
> Forgotten Realms has actual statistics for their creatures, (i.e.
> Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma).
I see.
> I also believe there are rules for converting AD&D characters to HERO.
I was using the Fantasy Hero II conversion tables.
> Thus, perhaps you can use these statistics to better aid your statistics
> via conversion and comparison.
>
> If I can, I'll forward you a copy.
That would help a lot, so if can send them, please do.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist,
but you have ceased to live."
Mark Twain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 23:02:16 -0500
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> I orignally gave it a 10 STR, but then realized that 1 Level of Growth
> gave it a base of 15. Yes, I figure it is the STR of the bite. If I
> increase the raw damage of the bite, I'll make it Reduced Penetration.
The 15 STR might also indicate much weight the beholder can carry around. In a
D&D arcade game the beholder would grab your character in his mouth and chew him
while floating about. Ouch.
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:07:32 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Swingers
>>>What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills, rather
>>>than powers? Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
>>>hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)? Isnt any power that
>>>logically requires a focus a skill? I dunno just seems like to me, why
>>>isn't climbing a power (I have 45" of climbing, just start going UP and
>>>I'll catch you).
>>
>>First of all, neither of them logically requires a focus; someone could have
>>either as a power (I've had a character who swung by eminating little
>>telekinetic lines.) And there _are_ differences between the speeds of
>>gliders; it has to do with amount of drag and loft. In the case of
>>swinging, the issue is the length of the line. And there _is_ a powered
>>version of climbing; it's called Clinging.
>
>Just a pet peeve of mine, if I made the game it wouldn't have gliding at
>all (this is simply flight with appropriate limitations DELETE) and
>swinging would be a skill just like climbing. Oh well, I'm sure everyone
>has little bits like this they would change (AVLD/NND and BOECV is another
>of mine)
I just don't understand why you think Swinging isn't a power. Even if
there's a physical swingline, there's nothing as says it would have to be a
Focus in the Hero sense; you could generate new ones each time. At that
point the reach of the line is the most relevant point, which is the way it
is in the rules.
Personally, I somewhat agree with you about the fact Gliding is Limited
Flight, but it's hardly the only 'convenience power' in the rules...Growth
and Density Increase come to mind.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:42:26 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Swingers
>>>Just a pet peeve of mine, if I made the game it wouldn't have gliding at
>>>all (this is simply flight with appropriate limitations DELETE) and
>>>swinging would be a skill just like climbing. Oh well, I'm sure everyone
>>>has little bits like this they would change (AVLD/NND and BOECV is another
>>>of mine)
>>
>>I just don't understand why you think Swinging isn't a power. Even if
>>there's a physical swingline, there's nothing as says it would have to be a
>>Focus in the Hero sense; you could generate new ones each time. At that
>>point the reach of the line is the most relevant point, which is the way it
>>is in the rules.
>
>Because it's something any ass with a rope can do, and thats how I define a
>skill LOL, if anyone can do it.
Any 'ass' with a knife can do an HKA too, but that doesn't make it any less
a power.
>
>>Personally, I somewhat agree with you about the fact Gliding is Limited
>>Flight, but it's hardly the only 'convenience power' in the rules...Growth
>>and Density Increase come to mind.
>
>Both Growth and Density Increase do things no other power covers (i.e. get
>bigger and get denser... the latter being somewhat iffy). The fact that
>they give other effects is a result defining what happens when you get
>bigger or denser.
And doing damage is what generating fire often does, but we don't have
'generate fire' as a seperate power...instead, you look at the effects and
buy the powers based on that. Growth and Density are, if you strip off the
things that are expressable as other abilities, Limitations or Disadvantages.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:10:16 -0500
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net>
Subject: RE: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
> Nope completely blinded. My favorite item is 75% Damage Reduction vs. PD
> & ED IIF " Bracers of Defence ". Did I mis-read the rules or am I not
> understanding Rat's comment. actually I prefer to do the reduction
> before the defences as a house rule. It allows a low defence charecter
> to not take damage from every attack
...it also (IMHO) /way/ unbalances the power of Damage Reduction (which is
already dubiously balanced, especially for high point games). If you really
like that house rule, I'd double (at least) the cost of all damage
reduction,
or you'll get everyone wanting it. One house rule that I /do/ like to use
is
to modify the cost of D.R. by the point base of the campaign relative to a
standard 250-point one. Thus, in a Heroic game, D.R. costs 150/250 = 3/5 x
normal, while in a megapowered 500 pt game, it costs 500/250 = 2 x normal.
> Does anyone allow Damage Reduction Vs SFX ( any magic, high tech,
> ect...) or Vs. advantages ( all NNDs ) WITH a good definition
> instead of Vs. PD and/or ED with the appropriate limitations
I'd say yes to D.R. vs. a specific SFX, but no to D.R. vs. a specific
advantage (What SFX could justify a defense that worked vs. nerve pinches,
knockout gas, and sonic disruptors?)
----Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:40:01 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Swingers
At 08:42 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
Note: ">>" isn't Wayne, but the proper attribution was missing. Sorry. :[
>>Both Growth and Density Increase do things no other power covers (i.e. get
>>bigger and get denser... the latter being somewhat iffy). The fact that
>>they give other effects is a result defining what happens when you get
>>bigger or denser.
>
> And doing damage is what generating fire often does, but we don't have
> 'generate fire' as a seperate power...instead, you look at the effects
> and buy the powers based on that. Growth and Density are, if you strip
> off the things that are expressable as other abilities, Limitations or
> Disadvantages.
No, in this case, Growth, Shrinking, and Density Increase all do something
that isn't available to other powers: alter volume and weight. Though this
could be handwaved away as special effects, the fact that the powers exist
in the game (and in the case of the first two, are allotted their own "Power
Group") is a hint that the creators thought this was IMPORTANT. (And given
that these same powers are used for building vehicles et al., it *does*
become important sometimes).
- --
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:05:23 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Swingers
>At 08:42 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>Note: ">>" isn't Wayne, but the proper attribution was missing. Sorry. :[
>
>>>Both Growth and Density Increase do things no other power covers (i.e. get
>>>bigger and get denser... the latter being somewhat iffy). The fact that
>>>they give other effects is a result defining what happens when you get
>>>bigger or denser.
>>
>> And doing damage is what generating fire often does, but we don't have
>> 'generate fire' as a seperate power...instead, you look at the effects
>> and buy the powers based on that. Growth and Density are, if you strip
>> off the things that are expressable as other abilities, Limitations or
>> Disadvantages.
>
>No, in this case, Growth, Shrinking, and Density Increase all do something
>that isn't available to other powers: alter volume and weight. Though this
>could be handwaved away as special effects, the fact that the powers exist
>in the game (and in the case of the first two, are allotted their own "Power
>Group") is a hint that the creators thought this was IMPORTANT. (And given
>that these same powers are used for building vehicles et al., it *does*
>become important sometimes).
Actually the part you're responding to _was_ mine. And my point was, I
think if you followed the logic of other parts of the Hero System, the
addition of mass and weight largely _would_ be a special effect...and a
Disadvantage/Limitation. The other properies are pretty much all reflected
by various powers.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:12:52 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Swingers
>>>
>>>Because it's something any ass with a rope can do, and thats how I define a
>>>skill LOL, if anyone can do it.
>>
>>Any 'ass' with a knife can do an HKA too, but that doesn't make it any less
>>a power.
>
>But the KNIFE has the power in it, would you not say? Everyone agrees that
>a knife is built as a killing attack, but is a vine built with swinging as
>a power? A rope? Or is that what you DO with the device (read... skill)?
Actually, just a rope doesn't give you swinging anyway; swinging as a power
assumes a fairly sophisticated rapid launch grappling cable type effect.
And yes, I'd say that's a device with the power Swinging in it.
>
>>And doing damage is what generating fire often does, but we don't have
>>'generate fire' as a seperate power...instead, you look at the effects and
>>buy the powers based on that. Growth and Density are, if you strip off the
>>things that are expressable as other abilities, Limitations or Disadvantages.
>
>Growth is not expressable as any power that I'm aware of (unless you use
>transform, but growth predated transform, and technically ANY power can be
>simulated with it). All Growth DOES is make you bigger (and give you
>results of that like STR) and all Energy Blast does is damage (defined with
>the special effect).
You're missing the point. What does 'getting bigger' do? It gives you more
reach (Stretching) makes you harder to knock back (Knockback Resistance)
makes you stronger (Strength) and so on, accompanies by various
disadvantages. It's just as reduceable to seperate abilities as changing to
ice would be.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 01:19:14 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
At 09:39 AM 3/29/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
> I'm trying to come up with oodles of American Heroes.
>
> Here are come concepts I have so far:
>
> Four Score: Four Score has Duplication, and can become Four
>seperate heroes. They know martial arts, and are very well coordinated
>due to a Mind Link. Unfortunately, they all take "Backlash" from any of
>the other's damage, and if one should die, they all die.
> (All I need to do is figure out how to balance out all of the
>points so everyone gets an equal share).
>
> Fore Father: A wise character with Retrocognition and LS: Does
>not Age who has lived since the beginning of America itself. Can commune
>with spirits of our great fore bearers. Most likely, also had advanced
>detection powers. His motif and gadgets are based around this.
>
> Flag Waver (or Flag Pole): The entire motif for this Martial
>Artist's staff fighting style is based around a Flag and a Flag Pole.
> (FlagStone: A brick?)
>
> Constitution: He can't be killed. He is not so much resistant
>to injury as he is unkillable.
>
> Any other heroes, already existing from other RPG sources or comic
>books (no matter how silly or stupid sounding) would be appreciated.
>
>
Dexter's Laboratory, on Cartoon Network, features Major Glory, a
star-spangled hero who spouts stuff about the flag, eagles, and/or justice
at every opportunity. While he sometimes appears in a standard segment or
as an action figure, the best stuff will come from the segments about The
Justice Friends which is basicly a sitcom about 3 roommates: Major Glory,
the Indefagable Krunk, and Val-Hallen the Viking God of Rock.
Also worth a view from Hero fans, the segment Dial M for Monkey that
featured the intergalactic warrior Res-Lor (voiced by Macho Man Randy
Savage). It is an exellent parody of Secret Wars and it's ilk.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
In search of the perfect .SIG file.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 01:27:29 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
At 07:11 AM 3/29/99 -0800, you wrote:
>> On a similar note, what sort of Limitation would "attracts
>>electricity" be? Those glass electrical orbs would explode when you touch
>>them, sparks would fly out of sockets if you had your hands near them,
>>light bulbs and other devices would dim (like a brown out), you'd be a
>>living lightning rod, etc. ?
>
> I don't think that's a Limitation per se, unless it's Side Effects from
>using a Power. I'd call this a combination of reduced DCV vs electricity,
>Distinctive Features (the sparks and the light bulb thing), and *maybe* a
>Susceptibility or Physical Limitation.
>---
>
I think I see the effect you're going for here.
On the TV show Misfits of Science, one of the low-rent heros was Johnnie
B., a rock star who was changed by being struck by lightning. He can now
drain electricity (like grabbing onto a high voltage transformer to power
up) and can fire lightning from his hands. On the down side, he moved to
the middle of the desert because of how he attracts lightning storms and he
can't even ride in a car for very long because he drains the battery and
drains off the alternator until the car doesn't have enough electricty to
fire the spark plugs. This last part is like a Drain, Always on but that
doesn't cover Phys Lim: Attracts Lightning.
I'm not sure how to write it up, though.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
In search of the perfect .SIG file.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 01:45:25 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Melissa Virus
>Mailing-List: contact mektonz-help@mecha.com; run by ezmlm
>Reply-To: mektonz@mecha.com
>Delivered-To: mailing list mektonz@mecha.com
>X-Sender: nemo@mail.psn.net
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:38:17 -0700
>To: mektonz@mecha.com
>From: RAKnotts <rknotts@psn.net>
>Subject: [MZML] Melissa Virus
Since we all got nabbed by Happy99 a while back, I thought I should forward
this. It's another virus that's touring the mailing lists because it
emails itself out.
>
>>Please visit the attached web site concerning the Melissa Virus
>>
>>
>>http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-04-Melissa-Macro-Virus.html
>
>This has also been reported on CNN today.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: mektonz-unsubscribe@mecha.com
>For additional commands, e-mail: mektonz-help@mecha.com
>
>
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
In search of the perfect .SIG file.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:01:29 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Swingers
At 05:14 PM 3/29/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Is it my complete obscurity or did you just miss the point?
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
A little of both.
Swinging os really just a limited version of Flight. So is Gliding. While
a character might buy Hang Gliding skill and a hang-glider, Gliding as a
power means he can fly (with or without a focus) at a given speed, but may
not gain altitude and/or whatever limitations there are on it. Champions
prices things based on _game_effect_, not on real-world logic of use.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
In search of the perfect .SIG file.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:12:15 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: No Conscious Control
At 08:13 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Kim Foster wrote:
>
>Seriously, I think whats being said is that using "Always on" like that is
>running a Power Modifier as a character Disadvantage, as was discussed with
>No Consious Control some weeks ago.
>
>
Well, I guess I missed that discussion but here's a question I've had for a
while:
When I played AD&D the GM ran clerics that, since their spells came from
their god, sometimes they didn't get exactly the spells they prayed for.
Like, if you said "today I'm gonna take 3 Cure Light Wounds" he might say
"2 Cure Light and one Turn Dead." Usually, you'd run into some undead a
day or two after this.
What Power Limitation would best reflect a power like that? If I have a
Multipower with No Conscious Control on changing the slots, I roll randomly
to see where the points are today. If I have Activation Roll on changing
the slots, I can fail my roll and be unable to change them. But what would
say that I usually get what I want, but sometimes they change to things I
didn't ask for?
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
In search of the perfect .SIG file.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:01:47 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
> Dexter's Laboratory, on Cartoon Network, features Major Glory, a
> star-spangled hero who spouts stuff about the flag, eagles, and/or justice
> at every opportunity. While he sometimes appears in a standard segment or
> as an action figure, the best stuff will come from the segments about The
> Justice Friends which is basicly a sitcom about 3 roommates: Major Glory,
> the Indefagable Krunk, and Val-Hallen the Viking God of Rock.
>
> Also worth a view from Hero fans, the segment Dial M for Monkey that
> featured the intergalactic warrior Res-Lor (voiced by Macho Man Randy
> Savage). It is an exellent parody of Secret Wars and it's ilk.
The Justice Friends is a waste, IMO. Not nearly as funny as Dexter or Monkey.
BTW, the Res-Lor episode (which *IS* funny) is an almost scene for scene
parody of the Marvel Two-In-One annual with the Thing vs. the Champion of the
Universe (with wrestling subbing for boxing).
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:16:08 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control
- -----Original Message-----
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 5:57 PM
Subject: No Conscious Control
>At 08:13 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Kim Foster wrote:
>Well, I guess I missed that discussion but here's a question I've had for a
>while:
>When I played AD&D the GM ran clerics that, since their spells came from
>their god, sometimes they didn't get exactly the spells they prayed for.
>Like, if you said "today I'm gonna take 3 Cure Light Wounds" he might say
>"2 Cure Light and one Turn Dead." Usually, you'd run into some undead a
>day or two after this.
>
>What Power Limitation would best reflect a power like that? If I have a
>Multipower with No Conscious Control on changing the slots, I roll randomly
>to see where the points are today. If I have Activation Roll on changing
>the slots, I can fail my roll and be unable to change them. But what would
>say that I usually get what I want, but sometimes they change to things I
>didn't ask for?
>
buy a vpp, and get most of the control cost with 'change in situation X'
and some with 'change in situation X, no choice as to powers'
that smaller fragment will be yer gods doing. Now, if a mimic
can 'choose' his 'unchosen powers' by targeting a particular person, the
cleric may have a crack at choosing this fragment by doing some rp
with his god.
oh hang on a multipower? Well i guess just shove an
arbitary limtation on it, maybe an activation roll that
affects the pool, but not the slots. Or vice versa?
eh. . .
>
>============================
>Geoff Heald
>============================
>In search of the perfect .SIG file.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:47:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> I think I see the effect you're going for here.
> On the TV show Misfits of Science, one of the low-rent heros was Johnnie
> B., a rock star who was changed by being struck by lightning. He can now
> drain electricity (like grabbing onto a high voltage transformer to power
> up) and can fire lightning from his hands. On the down side, he moved to
> the middle of the desert because of how he attracts lightning storms and he
> can't even ride in a car for very long because he drains the battery and
> drains off the alternator until the car doesn't have enough electricty to
> fire the spark plugs. This last part is like a Drain, Always on but that
> doesn't cover Phys Lim: Attracts Lightning.
> I'm not sure how to write it up, though.
I thought he moved to the desert because he took damage from
water? Just the slightest bit would cause extreme pain as it would "short
circuit" the part of his body it hit.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:49:53 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: RE: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
<< I'd say yes to D.R. vs. a specific SFX, but no to D.R. vs. a specific
advantage (What SFX could justify a defense that worked vs. nerve
pinches, knockout gas, and sonic disruptors?) >>
OK NND was a bad example, I was running late for work. How about an
acrobatic charecter with Damage Reduction vs. all Area Effect ? Or a
brick with D.R. vs. Armor Piercing?
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #252
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Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 01:13 PM