Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 253
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 11:54 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #253
champ-l-digest Tuesday, March 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 253
In this issue:
Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Re: Swingers
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: No Conscious Control
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: No Conscious Control
Re: Swingers
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: No Conscious Control
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:08:52 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
wouldn't an Always On Absorbtion vs. electricity make you take painful
shocks from static electricity everytime you are in contact with metal,
no rugs needed. or would that be no metal needed, you complete the
circuit yourself.
personally I see a lot of AOs as an advantage of never having to
activate a power because there are no drawbacks. does Persistant really
cover this or is there a better advantage
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:17:19 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
At 12:01 AM 3/30/1999 -0800, Scott Bennie wrote:
>The Justice Friends is a waste, IMO. Not nearly as funny as Dexter or Monkey.
As a rule, the Justice Friends At Home segments aren't as funny, but there
have been a few bright spots...Valhalen's bedroom in their shared apartment
opening into another dimension, for example. The JF vs. Bar-B-Qor and the
Silver Spooner was a Monkey episode, wasn't it? It was Monkey's birthday,
so no one would allow him to exert himself and fight the Galactus-style
menace.
>BTW, the Res-Lor episode (which *IS* funny) is an almost scene for scene
>parody of the Marvel Two-In-One annual with the Thing vs. the Champion of the
>Universe (with wrestling subbing for boxing).
That's where I read it! I'd been thinking it matched Contest of Champions,
but when I pulled out that miniseries to check, it didn't come close.
Switching back to American themed heroes, there are dozens in the comics.
Jason, are you trying to compile a list of those as well as thinking up new
ones?
Ms. Victory (I & II) and Yankee Girl (Femforce, AC Comics)
Yankee Poodle (Capt. Carrot and the Zoo Crew, DC Comics)
Major Victory, Mayflower...hmmm, can't remember the rest. A villain group
that I think Batman and the Outsiders came up against. I think there were
five in the group, all based on some "Americana" theme, though not all in
red, white and blue. One dressed like the Statue of Liberty!
Agent Liberty (DC Comics)
Mister America (two-issue miniseries, can't remember the publisher offhand)
Super President (early '60s TV cartoon...only the Vice President knew the
hero's secret identity)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:06:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Swingers
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >> What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills, rather
> >> than powers?
> >
> >Er...I really don't see why. You could have a skill with your gliding
> >(say) to represent the fact that you were good at it - there's already
> >mechanics for 'skill levels with flight'.
>
> Because they make more sense to me as skills than powers?
Why would Gliding be a skill? It's not something that I (as an example of
the average human) can do or learn to do. No amount of study will let me
jump off of the Empire State Building and float to safety.
If you are talking about the skill of operating a hang glider, that would
be TF: Hang Glider (or Combat Piloting: Hang Glider). Said hang glider
would be built with the Gliding power.
> >> Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
> >> hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)?
> >
> >Because they're Movement Powers, and the way you rate how powerful a
> >Movement Power is is by how fast it lets you go. It makes as much sense
> >as giving speeds to Running or Flight.
>
> Yes I understand how mechanics work, thank you sir, what I'm referring to
> is how absurd that is.
It's absurd to rate a movement power by how fast it lets you go? What
would you rate it by, the color of your shoes?
Or are you going to claim that things with the Gliding power shouldn't
have speeds because all hang gliders go exactly the same speed as all
flying squirrels and all paper airplanes?
> >> Isnt any power that
> >> logically requires a focus a skill?
>
> >a) No.
> >
> >b) Neither Swinging not Gliding logically require a Focus. Real World
> >Example: Flying Squirrels have the Gliding power but no Focus. Monkeys
> >(as well as Tarzan and other brachiators) could be said to have the
> >Swinging power with several limitations, but not Focus.
>
> Define how you swing with no focus in the real world (in game terms, ok you
> could create an 'energy tendril') but I am referring to examples in
> literature and real world.
Tarzan the Ape-Man has purchased 12" of Swinging with the limitations
'Only where there are vines' and either 'Constant Gestures' or
'restrainable'. The vines are not an OAF - that would be like Daredevil's
billyclub. If you take away one vine, it does not take away Tarzan's
ability to swing. The vines are not an OIF either - you can't take them
away from Tarzan with an out-of-combat action.
Another example from (comic-book) literature: Spiderman (when he had the
alien symbiote)/Venom. The alien symbiote could generate the web-lines,
so Spidey no longer had to use his IIF web-shooters to get the Swinging
ability.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:13:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> Major Victory, Mayflower...hmmm, can't remember the rest. A villain group
> that I think Batman and the Outsiders came up against. I think there were
> five in the group, all based on some "Americana" theme, though not all in
> red, white and blue. One dressed like the Statue of Liberty!
I know (roughly) of these guys, having seen them in the Suicide Squad some
time agao. The name is "The Force of July" (I think). There were 5
members, including Major Victory, Lady Liberty and Silent Majority.
Silent Majority didn't speak and could duplicate into a virtual army. The
one time I saw him, he looked to be able to teleport (sort of) by
duplicating.
Major Victory was really strong and really tough... and well... a bit of a
jerk.
There was a kid as well who (I think) fired off sparkler effects. Dr.
Light killed him after the kid tormented the Doc into a berserk rage.
Of course, I may have mixed stuff up here, my relevent issues of Suicide
Squad are packed away.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:28:05 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
I think this beholder is great. I have a couple of comments and suggestions.
First, I think this is the perfect kind of character to try that limited SPD
thing that's been bouncing around the list the last couple of days. I think
I'd make him SPD 2 with +2SPD[eye stalks only -1/2] So he can do what he
likes on 6 and 12, but on 3 and 9 he can only use his multipower.
I think the armour and DCV are fine. Don't forget that the old AD&D AC was
supposed to encompass both armour and passive dodging. With a hit location
modifier of -6 or so for the big eye and maybe -10 for the stalks, snipers
and specialists will be able to make called shots but bah-fight guys will
just have to wail away at the body. Also, the beholder has a 15 INT and is
strong at range so a GM should play him as such. To my mind, a beholder
would never choose a tactical situation where anyone could initiate
hand-to-hand combat without, say, leaping over a chasm, climbing something
or swimming through waters infested with giant gar or something.
Yea, I dig the Beholder. I'd make him a little quicker, but I dig him.
BRI
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
There is a theory that state: "If anyone finds out what the universe is
for it will disappear and be replaced by something more bizzarly
inexplicable."
There is another theory that states: "This has already happened..."
Douglas Adams, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Michael Surbrook [mailto:susano@dedaana.otd.com]
] Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 4:57 PM
] To: Champions Mailing List
] Subject: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
]
]
] I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering
] with converting
] a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero terms.
] First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed
] back is gretly
] appreciated.
]
] BEHOLDER
]
] Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
] 15 STR 0 12- 200kg; 3d6
] 19 DEX 27 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
] 15 CON 10 12-
] 14 BODY 8 12-
] 15 INT 5 12- PER Roll 12-
] 18 EGO 16 13- ECV: 6
] 15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6
] 0 COM -5 9-
] 6 PD 4 Total: 14 PD / 8 PDr
] 6 ED 3 Total: 14 ED / 8 EDr
] 3 SPD 1 Phases: 6, 12
] 6 REC 2
] 66 END 18
] 30 STUN 3
] Total Characteristics Cost: 97
]
] Movement: Flight: 3" / 6"
]
] Cost Powers & Skills
] Combat Training:
] 10 Combat Skill Levels: +2 with Eye Blasts Multipower
] 4 Combat Skill Levels: +2 OCV with Bite
]
] Beholder Powers:
] 7 Great Size: Growth: 1 Level, 0 END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/2),
] Always On (-1/2)
] +5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 STUN, -1" KB, 4-6' across, 400 lbs
]
] 96 Eye Blasts Multipower: 120 Point Pool, Multipower has a Limited
] Arc of Fire, each slot can only affect targets in a 180 degree
] arc, arc varies per slot (-1/4)
] 5 u - Anti-Magic Stare: Dispel: 16d6 vs Magic, Any single
] power with
] a magic Special Effect (+1/4), END 6
] 5 u - Charm: Mind Control: 12d6, Only vs Humanoids, END 6
] 5 u - Charm: Mind Control: 12d6, Only vs Animals, END 6
] 4 u - Cause Serious Wounds: Drain: 2d6 vs BODY, Ranged (+1/2),
] Recovers per Day (+1 1/4), END 5
] 5 u - Death Stare: RKA: 1d6+1, NND: Defense is not being 'alive',
] Having Full Life Support, Power Defesne, or being defended by a
] magical 'force field' (+1), Does Body (+1), END 6
] 5 u - Disintigrate: RKA: 1d6, AVLD: Power Defense (+1 1/2), Does
] Body (+1), END 6
] 5 u - Fear: Mind Control: 9d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Single Command:
] Run Away (-1/2), END 6
] 5 u - Flesh to Stone:Transformation Attack: 2 1/2d6 Major
] (Flesh to
] Stone), Cumulative (+1/2), END 6
] 5 u - Levitation: TK: 40 STR, END 6
] 5 u - Sleep: Ego Attack: 3d6, AoE: Radius (+1), END 6
] 5 u - Slow: Drain: 4d6 vs SPD, Ranged, END 6
]
] 15 Bite: HKA: 1d6 (2d6 with STR), END 3
] 24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
] 6 Flight: 3", END 1
] -12 Running: -6" (0" Total)
] -2 Swimming: -2" (0" Total)
] 10 Multiple Eyes: 360 degree Sensing for Sight Group
] 5 Heat Vision: IR Vision
] 5 Night Vision: UV Vision
]
] Background Skills:
] 3 AK: Local Area 12-
] 0 Beholder (native)
] 3 "Common Speech" (fluent)
] 3 Persuasion 12-
] 3 Stealth 13-
] 3 Tactics 12-
] 3 Tracking 12-
] 240 Total Powers & Skills Cost
] 337 Total Character Cost
]
] 100+ Disadvantages
] Distinctive Features: Beholder
] Physical Limitation: No manipulatory limbs
] Psychological Limitation:
] Agressive and hateful
] Greedy
] Reputation: Eye Tryant, Ext 8-
] Experience
] Total Disadvantage Points
]
]
] --
] Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"You! Get me a drink! Make it large, strong, and to go,
and put it on Godot's tab!"
Der Rock the Destroyer, from _Buck Godot: PSmIth_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:43:18 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: No Conscious Control
I use this house-rule version of NCC that we call partial control for -1. It
basically allows the PC to activate the power and describe how he hopes
things turn out. Then, the GM figures out what happens. I've found it a
little more playable than NCC, because, as a GM, you (well, I) forget about
unconscious stuff like that.
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And I
am unsure about the universe.
- Albert Einstein
] -----Original Message-----
] From: geoff heald [mailto:gheald@worldnet.att.net]
] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 2:12 AM
] To: champ-l@sysabend.org
] Subject: No Conscious Control
]
]
] At 08:13 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Kim Foster wrote:
] >
] >Seriously, I think whats being said is that using "Always
] on" like that is
] >running a Power Modifier as a character Disadvantage, as was
] discussed with
] >No Consious Control some weeks ago.
] >
] >
] Well, I guess I missed that discussion but here's a question
] I've had for a
] while:
] When I played AD&D the GM ran clerics that, since their
] spells came from
] their god, sometimes they didn't get exactly the spells they
] prayed for.
] Like, if you said "today I'm gonna take 3 Cure Light Wounds"
] he might say
] "2 Cure Light and one Turn Dead." Usually, you'd run into
] some undead a
] day or two after this.
]
] What Power Limitation would best reflect a power like that?
] If I have a
] Multipower with No Conscious Control on changing the slots, I
] roll randomly
] to see where the points are today. If I have Activation Roll
] on changing
] the slots, I can fail my roll and be unable to change them.
] But what would
] say that I usually get what I want, but sometimes they change
] to things I
] didn't ask for?
]
]
] ============================
] Geoff Heald
] ============================
] In search of the perfect .SIG file.
]
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:49:43 -0500
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> > Major Victory, Mayflower...hmmm, can't remember the rest.
> I know (roughly) of these guys, having seen them in the Suicide Squad some
> time agao. The name is "The Force of July" (I think).
Yup, they were funded by a rabidly patriotic US senator, and used
to fulfill his right-wing agenda.
> Major Victory was really strong and really tough... and well... a bit of a
> jerk.
His power came mostly from his suit, I believe. He was a minor
brick who was amplified by the circuits in his costume. I think he and
Silent Majority were the only real Americans in the group. Mayflower was
British, the Statue-of-Liberty lady was French, and I think the sparkler
kid was Latino.
> Of course, I may have mixed stuff up here, my relevent issues of Suicide
> Squad are packed away.
Yah, mine too. I really loved the Squad. I mean, any serious team
(and they were very serious) that's got both Deadshot and Punch and
Jewelee...and Amanda Waller staring down Batman...
- --
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:49:48 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Real American Heroes (American Themed Heroes)
The Sentinels of Liberty and Justice ( from Heroes Unlimited )
Patriot - High EGO / CON. STR 28, Martial Arts, and Karmic Powers ( 5D6
luck and skill levels with disadvantages if he does "evil" things )
Constitution - grows to 20', High DEX / CON, regeneration
Flagwaver - Gliding, EC: Air, Ambidexterous
Minuteman - "Captain America" clone with high DEX, resistant defences,
"bionic implants ", and the ability to stop clocks ( not time, just
anything that measures time )
Stars & Stripes - Twin psychics with END Reserve when holding hands
Stars - TK, mnd bolt, hypnotic powers, "pyrokinetics' " resist cold,
fatigue, thirst, and hunger "
Stripes - female with healing, telepathy, danger sense, mental defences,
psionic detection, Aura sight, total recall, speed reading
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:58:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
At 08:11 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
>| I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
>| including the defense of Damage Reduction.
>
>Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
>defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
>that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
I was right with you up until your example.
Rat, you have *got* to get into the habit of explaining your logic for
things up front instead of letting people guess.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:58:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
At 08:11 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
>| I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
>| including the defense of Damage Reduction.
>
>Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
>defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
>that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
I was right with you up until your example.
Rat, you have *got* to get into the habit of explaining your logic for
things up front instead of letting people guess.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:53:17 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Absorbtion (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
At 07:47 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>
>> I think I see the effect you're going for here.
>> On the TV show Misfits of Science, one of the low-rent heros was Johnnie
>> B., a rock star who was changed by being struck by lightning. He can now
>> drain electricity (like grabbing onto a high voltage transformer to power
>> up) and can fire lightning from his hands. On the down side, he moved to
>> the middle of the desert because of how he attracts lightning storms and he
>> can't even ride in a car for very long because he drains the battery and
>> drains off the alternator until the car doesn't have enough electricty to
>> fire the spark plugs. This last part is like a Drain, Always on but that
>> doesn't cover Phys Lim: Attracts Lightning.
>> I'm not sure how to write it up, though.
>
> I thought he moved to the desert because he took damage from
>water? Just the slightest bit would cause extreme pain as it would "short
>circuit" the part of his body it hit.
I, too, don't remember anything said in the show about him attracting
lighting storms.
The pilot is at the video store here in Corvallis; maybe I should go
rent it and find out. :-]
BTW, the attraction of lightning would probably be either a Physical
Limitation (which I'd call Frequent, Slight), or a Change Environment
(Always On).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:56:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 03:05 AM 3/30/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
>
>On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
>As a side note, I intend to offer up the Blink Dog and the Type V demon.
>These two (plus the Beholder) where the three most 'interesting' creatures
>from the old MM. I *might* (might mind you) take a swing at Demogorgon,
>Orcus and Jubilex, if only to try and figure out their powers. I also
>will be offering some conversions for creatures from the GURPS
>Fantasy Bestiary (and a few otehr sources) later on.
What, no Umber Hulks? ;-]
>And ideas on how to simulate lopping off the small eyes? I was thinking
>of going for a 'OIF' lim on the multipower, inwhich the -1/2 lim wasn't
>for a focus per se, but to represent the fact that the eyes are 'outside'
>of the base DEF.
A Focus can be Grabbed and taken away. I'd call this a Limitation on
BODY (make all but one BODY "Not on Eyestalks").
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:08:09 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control
At 02:12 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, geoff heald wrote:
>Well, I guess I missed that discussion but here's a question I've had for a
>while:
>When I played AD&D the GM ran clerics that, since their spells came from
>their god, sometimes they didn't get exactly the spells they prayed for.
>Like, if you said "today I'm gonna take 3 Cure Light Wounds" he might say
>"2 Cure Light and one Turn Dead." Usually, you'd run into some undead a
>day or two after this.
>
>What Power Limitation would best reflect a power like that? If I have a
>Multipower with No Conscious Control on changing the slots, I roll randomly
>to see where the points are today. If I have Activation Roll on changing
>the slots, I can fail my roll and be unable to change them. But what would
>say that I usually get what I want, but sometimes they change to things I
>didn't ask for?
I think I'd just make it a -1/4 or -1/2 Limitation for "Divine
Overruling."
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:36:06 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Swingers
Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
>> Define how you swing with no focus in the real world (in game terms, ok
you
>> could create an 'energy tendril') but I am referring to examples in
>> literature and real world.
>
First off, the game portrays all settings, not just the real world. Second,
the way it's set up defies the 'one true rule' maxim of how to portray a
given
effect. Third, even swinging by hand from a parelle bar could be referred to
as swinging, depending on the interpretation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:46:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >As a side note, I intend to offer up the Blink Dog and the Type V demon.
> >These two (plus the Beholder) where the three most 'interesting' creatures
> >from the old MM. I *might* (might mind you) take a swing at Demogorgon,
> >Orcus and Jubilex, if only to try and figure out their powers. I also
> >will be offering some conversions for creatures from the GURPS
> >Fantasy Bestiary (and a few otehr sources) later on.
>
> What, no Umber Hulks? ;-]
<shrug> I guess I could, if you want to seem them. How do you do
'confusion' as a power?
> >And ideas on how to simulate lopping off the small eyes? I was thinking
> >of going for a 'OIF' lim on the multipower, inwhich the -1/2 lim wasn't
> >for a focus per se, but to represent the fact that the eyes are 'outside'
> >of the base DEF.
>
> A Focus can be Grabbed and taken away. I'd call this a Limitation on
> BODY (make all but one BODY "Not on Eyestalks").
Well, I did put OIF in quotes. I was thinking of putting a -1/2 lim on
the multipower stating that it could be removed (slot by slot) and that
the slots had less DEF than the rest of the body. Is this a good/bad
idea?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:54:49 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
he means that damage reduction does not function as a defense for a focus,
while pd and ed do.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
>At 08:11 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>* Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
>>| I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
>>| including the defense of Damage Reduction.
>>
>>Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
>>defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
>>that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
>
> I was right with you up until your example.
> Rat, you have *got* to get into the habit of explaining your logic for
>things up front instead of letting people guess.
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:58:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Lockie wrote:
> he means that damage reduction does not function as a defense for a focus,
> while pd and ed do.
I disagree. Rat is stating that DR is figured *after* damage gets through
defenses, but that any foci is hit *before* defenses (in general), meaning
that (according to Rat) the DR is rendered useless. Persoanlly, I
disagree with this view of DR when bought via a focus.
> >>| I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
> >>| including the defense of Damage Reduction.
> >>
> >>Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
> >>defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
> >>that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
> >
> > I was right with you up until your example.
> > Rat, you have *got* to get into the habit of explaining your logic for
> >things up front instead of letting people guess.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:54:37 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
I remember reading somewhere years ago in one of those early Champions
supplements that if your EGO goes below 0, you have to make an EGO roll to
do anything. Thus, an EGO Drain is the way I'd do confusion. With an EGO of
0, you've got about as much initiative and ambition as your average
automaton.
I used it in my first supers campaign in this big cage in a hellish place
called the Time Wastes. Very powerful creatures [and PC's] had their EGO's
drained below zero and just couldn't decide to do anything. They would roll
successfully, make a half move, fail the next roll and stare slack-jawed
into space.
]
] <shrug> I guess I could, if you want to seem them. How do you do
] 'confusion' as a power?
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:11:48 -0800
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekh@employees.org>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
At 5:58 AM -0800 3/30/99, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
>>defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
>>that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
> I was right with you up until your example.
> Rat, you have *got* to get into the habit of explaining your logic for
>things up front instead of letting people guess.
He means that the Focus will get its DEF from the Active Points in
the Focus rather than "borrowing" the DEF of the Power itself (as
it would with, say, Armor). Ergo, since Damage Reduction does not affect
the DEF of a Focus it's bought through, Damage Reduction is not a Defensive
power.
- - Derek
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:19:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> I remember reading somewhere years ago in one of those early Champions
> supplements that if your EGO goes below 0, you have to make an EGO roll to
> do anything. Thus, an EGO Drain is the way I'd do confusion. With an EGO of
> 0, you've got about as much initiative and ambition as your average
> automaton.
Except that this is an optional rule and I try to avoid such things in my
write ups for the list. Would a DEX drain work better? I could simulate
an inability to concentrate and one could give the lim of "Uses Ego
instead of Power Defense" (-1/4).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:22:24 -0600
From: "Hudson, Robert" <x2rhudso@southernco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 10:20 AM march 30 Surbrook wrote:
>Except that this is an optional rule and I try to avoid such things
in my write ups for the list. Would a DEX drain work better? I could
simulate an inability to concentrate and one could give the lim of "Uses
Ego instead of Power Defense" (-1/4).
Hideous as the cost might be, why not use an Entangle? If all the
victim does is stand there and go 'Duh" that pretty much sounds like it'd
duplicate the effect.
Rob Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:31:56 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Is that an optional rule? I just thought it was just obscure. It would be
nice if 5th said a little something about having stats drained below zero.
I can't see using a DEX Drain to simulate confusion.
Rob Hudson's email just floated across my desktop and he's suggested an
entangle. Okay, what about an entangle vs. EGO. This is pricey but really is
an effective (almost abusive) power, especially if you drain the target's
EGO at the same time.
"Foul beast!! You'll taste my... uh... ummm... hmmm... hey... uh... is
anybody hungry?"
BRI
] > I remember reading somewhere years ago in one of those
] early Champions
] > supplements that if your EGO goes below 0, you have to make
] an EGO roll to
] > do anything. Thus, an EGO Drain is the way I'd do
] confusion. With an EGO of
] > 0, you've got about as much initiative and ambition as your average
] > automaton.
]
] Except that this is an optional rule and I try to avoid such
] things in my
] write ups for the list. Would a DEX drain work better? I
] could simulate
] an inability to concentrate and one could give the lim of "Uses Ego
] instead of Power Defense" (-1/4).
]
] --
] Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
] http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
]
] "Every normal
] man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
] raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
] H.L. Mencken
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:39:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Is that an optional rule? I just thought it was just obscure. It would be
> nice if 5th said a little something about having stats drained below zero.
Hmmm... Hey! Steve!
> I can't see using a DEX Drain to simulate confusion.
> Rob Hudson's email just floated across my desktop and he's suggested an
> entangle. Okay, what about an entangle vs. EGO. This is pricey but really is
> an effective (almost abusive) power, especially if you drain the target's
> EGO at the same time.
This works as well. Honestly, I haven't even begun to look into the Umber
Hulk, so I'll cross the bridge when I get to it.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:47:24 -0600
From: "Hudson, Robert" <x2rhudso@southernco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 3:57 PM March 29 Surbrook wrote:
>I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering with
converting a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero
terms. First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed back is
greatly appreciated.
>5 u - Disintigrate: RKA: 1d6, AVLD: Power Defense (+1 1/2),
Does Body (+1), END 6
This' actually the only slot I had a question about - it seems to me
that if you're modeling a power that either turns you to dust or does
nothing at all, you might be better served with a very large RKA that has
some sort of "All or nothing" Limitation on it. That way, if it failed to
generate enough Body to kill the target outright, nothing happened.
[Replicating the "I made my Save!" moment from AD&D]
Rob Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:53:46 -0500
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Well, I guess I missed that discussion but here's a question I've had for a
> >while:
> >When I played AD&D the GM ran clerics that, since their spells came from
> >their god, sometimes they didn't get exactly the spells they prayed for.
> >Like, if you said "today I'm gonna take 3 Cure Light Wounds" he might say
> >"2 Cure Light and one Turn Dead." Usually, you'd run into some undead a
> >day or two after this.
[Snip]
> I think I'd just make it a -1/4 or -1/2 Limitation for "Divine
> Overruling."
Actually, if the overruling is generally used to benefit the priest using
information the deity has and the priest doesn't (like the example above), maybe
it should be a -0, or even an Avantadge.
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0800
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:54:37 -0500 Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
writes:
>I remember reading somewhere years ago in one of those early Champions
>supplements that if your EGO goes below 0, you have to make an EGO roll
to
>do anything. Thus, an EGO Drain is the way I'd do confusion. With an EGO
of
>0, you've got about as much initiative and ambition as your average
>automaton.
Good Call!
Reading all these posts about the beholder makes me wanna go play the Eye
Of The Beholder trilogy... :-)
Want to try your hand at a Mind Flayer, Mike?
|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ]
CO/Alpha Company, Black Horse Regiment
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:51:21 -0500
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
>[Replicating the "I made my Save!" moment from AD&D]
This looks like a job for "Saving Throw Man"...all of whose attack powers
are bought with the limitation "Target takes 1/2 effect if his player rolls
11 or higher on a d20".
Worth it just to watch the expression on Hero players' faces when they
realize that you really expect them to roll a d20. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:51:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Hudson, Robert wrote:
> >I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering with
> converting a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero
> terms. First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed back is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> >5 u - Disintigrate: RKA: 1d6, AVLD: Power Defense (+1 1/2),
> Does Body (+1), END 6
>
> This' actually the only slot I had a question about - it seems to me
> that if you're modeling a power that either turns you to dust or does
> nothing at all, you might be better served with a very large RKA that has
> some sort of "All or nothing" Limitation on it. That way, if it failed to
> generate enough Body to kill the target outright, nothing happened.
> [Replicating the "I made my Save!" moment from AD&D]
Hmmm... that would work. I was shooting for some sort RKA that would
destroy anything given time. Still, what sort of lim would "all or
nothing" be on the RKA?
The only problem with tis is that I also was trying to make everything
fall into a base 60 Active Points (merely for design purposes and slot
balance), so a 4d6 RKA will not 'kill' your average 10 BDOY character in
one shot.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:53:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Tracy L Birdine wrote:
> >I remember reading somewhere years ago in one of those early Champions
> >supplements that if your EGO goes below 0, you have to make an EGO roll
> to
> >do anything. Thus, an EGO Drain is the way I'd do confusion. With an EGO
> of
> >0, you've got about as much initiative and ambition as your average
> >automaton.
>
> Good Call!
>
> Reading all these posts about the beholder makes me wanna go play the Eye
> Of The Beholder trilogy... :-)
>
> Want to try your hand at a Mind Flayer, Mike?
As I understand it, the next Haymaker may have a Mind Flayer in it. Since
I don't have acess to a lot of background data on them (I know the race
was expanded on heavily), I'll have to pass.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #253
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Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 01:13 PM