Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 261
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 6:45 PM
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Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #261
champ-l-digest Saturday, April 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 261
In this issue:
Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
Re: superpatriots and other madmen
Re: superpatriots and other madmen
unsubscribe
House Rules
Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
Re: Hero Chainsaw?
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
Re: Converting D&D spells to HERO
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: Battle-light adventures?
Disfiguring Martial Artist (Disfiguring & MA attacks)
Re: Disfiguring Martial Artist (Disfiguring & MA attacks)
Re: superpatriots and other madmen
Re: superpatriots and other madmen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:39:34 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
> At 04:38 PM 4/1/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
> >From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
> >> See the A-Team.
> >
> >No. I refuse. I will tolerate comic books, but not _that_.:)
>
> MacGuyver?
Only if absolutely necessary. And even MacGuyver can't replace a tranny in
10 minutes.
> >>As I said, I'm looking at the rules from a cinematic
> >> viewpoint.
> >
> >But that only applies to one type of campaign. Comic book campaigns are
> >often _not_ cinematic, but require superspeed rules. Same goes for
fantasy.
>
> Comics are always cinematic. Unless you are talking about golf anime.
> Even Archie comics are cinematic.
Depends on what you call cinematic. And the campaign. It would be quite
possible to have a superhero campaign with gritty realism, for example, that
still allows for superspeed.
<snip>
> And you don't like the A-Team? :-) As someone pointed out, if you as GM
> don't think it's likely, put negatives on the roll. I would even let the
> speed 3 brick (with Mohawk) with Mechanics succeed in 20 minutes.
At reassembling a car? I do not run campaigns where people without special
powers can do such things. And don't want to play in them, either.
> And,
> hey, how contrived is that example? Why did they take the car apart when
> they could have flattened it? No one can repair a flattened car.
Intended to be an extreme example. In my past experience, characters with
superspeed can be gamebreakers. It therefore follows that any rules that
allow for superspeed simply by making a good roll are also potential
gamebreakers.
<snip>
> >Unfortunately, most games are not of the sort where the Extraordinary
Skill
> >rules are fitting. Nor do they readily fit super powers and magic spells.
> >Neither, unfortunately, do yours.
>
> But in those games where it is impossible BY DEFINITION no one would have
a
> power which made it possible.
Wrong. In any superhero game, there are all kinds of people who have powers
which make things possible to them that are impossible to normal humans. I
want these abilities to be available to super powered beings who have the
appropriate power, but not to those who don't. And I consider it to be too
valuable to be handwaved as "SFX". In campaigns where I have allowed it, it
has always been important.
<snip>
>
> If he is fast enough, he can combine every single part in every
combination
> until he gets it right in a phase. If he's fast enough.
Of course. However, there is presently no power or skill for doing this.
Thus, only "SFX" is available, and it has been too valuable to my players in
the past to be SFX.
> And master
> mechanic should realize that he will get it done without needing to break
> the sound barrier. I've never had a game where Mechanic skill came up in
a
> critical situation. I try to put the important parts of the game on the
> players being clever rather on them making a good die roll.
The same argument applies to a great many powers and skills. Deduction is an
obvious example. Inventor, Persuasion, and Oratory are also good ones.. The
same argument applies to virtually all such abilities; if they lose ability
X, or that player doesn't show up, they should be able to get around it.
This doesn't mean they aren't desirable and/or important.
> >But he doesn't have to. You can finish walls, including windows, and even
> >ceilings if you know what you are doing, without even using mortar. The
> >Incas never had mortar. If I have a 15- with Stonemason, and I decide to
> >build a stone house, then, even if it supposed to take a year, I can, by
> >rolling a 8-, finish during a lunch break from my real job.
>
> But in a realistic game, it would not be up to code. If a player in my
> game said he was going to try that, he better start laughing soon. Silly
> is just silly.
And what do you tell Speedmaster, when he wants to do it? Sure, it's just
SFX? Believe me, in any game where overall superspeed comes up, it quickly
becomes more than SFX to do these things. It actually becomes quite
valuable.
<snip>
>
> In my games, the speedster usually doesn't have paramedic. He picks up
the
> dying person, that the guy with paramedic can't get to, and speeds over to
> a hospital. Meanwhile, the rest of the party is after the villains. My
> players always split up.
Just because people generally work around a non-existent ability in
Champions doesn't mean it isn't valuable.
> >Keep in mind that, at this level, I am only advocating 1 more point. A
> >character who was 125 times faster than normal as a Mechanic, for
example,
> >would only cost 3 pts more my way than yours.
>
> But no one would by multiple levels in a single skill. A speedster is
> going to multiple levels for all skills. I object to that costing 10 per
> instead of 5 per.
Why? Overall levels already cost 10 pts per level. Also, keep in mind that
the character could, in theory, take extra time for bonuses, while still
taking the normal amount of time. This would give the character superspeed
_and_ extra level bonuses. This would make even 10 per too cheap, since that
would be the cost of the level to begin with, making superspeed free.
<snip>
> >2. Who said anything about the story hingeing on it? Stories often don't
> >hinge on all kinds of abilities that cost a lot more than 2 pts. Few
stories
> >actually hinge on the hero's Life Support, or Flight, or quite a few
other
> >powers, and they cost a lot more than what I am suggesting.
>
> Then who cares how long it take to do. (Which was my point.) No one is
> going to try to build a house in a minute under pressure. Flight often
> affects every battle that takes place. Life Support stops many limited
> powers. Fixing a carborator doesn't come up.
In what games? Maybe in superhero games that is true, though it certainly
isn't in mine. Superheroes in my games often do semi-normal things as well
as super things, and such abilities are valuable.
> >> >Superspeed "catch the falling people".
> >>
> >> That's a movement power, not a skill. Some kind of bizarre move by.
> >
> >Not necessarily. If a character didn't have "Autofire grab", then, even
if
> >he had the movement power, he couldn't do it. Since "autofire grab" is,
for
> >the most part, a rather silly power ("I grab all 5 Viper agents at once!"
> >"Do you have stretching?" "No." "Then you grabbed five, but released 3 to
> >get the last 2."), it is likely that the character won't have it.
>
> And so you've proven that a speedster cannot catch 5 falling people with
> skill levels? What was the point of the "catch falling people"
But he can, if he has "Superspeed" as a power. Since catching people isn't
"combat", he can catch 5 people in the amount of time other characters would
catch 1, if he has one level, and more if he has more.
> >> >Superspeed "reforge the passport papers".
> >>
> >> Another "how often" problem. If the character is a speedster, this is
> >> worth hand-waving. Forcing him to pay 30 points for super-forgery is
> >silly.
> >
> >Why would it have to be 30 pts? For "Able to forge a document that should
> >take 5 hours in 1 minute", using your suggestion, would cost 8 pts. With
> >mine, it would cost 12.
>
> That assumes you only bought fast forgery. We were discussing a generic
> speedster originally. At your costs, that's 30.
True. But you asked why superforgery should cost 30 pts. It doesn't.
Superforgery, superfirstaid, supertyping, supersearchtheroom,
superpickupallthegrenadesandthrowthemoutthewindow, etc., etc., etc., all at
the same time, however, does.
> >And, in a great many games (espianage games spring to mind), the ability
to
> >forge documents in minutes instead of hours would be a very useful
ability.
>
> And unrealistic. Should I say cinematic?
Neither one, necessarily. We are talking about a special ability, based upon
a great many possible SFX.
> If you allow people to take the
> power which makes it faster, why not just give them a penalty for taking
> less time down the time chart?
That's fine. And the ability to do that should cost the same as levels do to
begin with, since they are of roughly the same utility, but do something
ordinary levels don't; move things down the time chart. 2 pts for 1 power, 3
pts for close group, 5 pts for DEX-based, INT-based, etc., and 10 pts for
everything.
>What is the difference? (I think that's
> what I've been arguing all this time.)
I consider the ability to move things down the time chart is as valuable as
levels. In campaigns where I have had it, it always has been. Therefore, I
think it should cost as much.
> Who would know at character
> creation that being able to forge documents fast is a good idea? Why not
> just make use of skill penalties?
Because people want to build characters who are exeptionally fast, due to
super powers, magic, or cybernetic implants, and simply using skill
penalties doesn't cover it properly.
<snip>
> >
> >Two, since one would only allow for doing 5 things at once, and he
wouldn't
> >have time to get from position to position on the bridge. Besides, if all
he
> >needed was one level down the chart, then the power only cost 10 pts, or
5
> >if it is a +1 time level for ship use skills.
>
> One allows 5 things and two allows 25 things and you'd force 6 things into
> the two slot? It's not like the time chart is perfectly linear.
1. Yes, he could do six things with a penalty, due to being exceptionally
rushed.
2. Getting between the chairs, however, takes too much time. If he can do
them all from one chair with no time needed to switch, then he just takes a
penalty for rushing.
<snip>
> >
> >> Personally, I just use
> >> Change Environment. It is good enough.
> >
> >1. Can't be used for changing the character. A character with this power
> >could not get dressed super fast, or put on make-up, or put on bandages
and
> >stop his own bleeding.
>
> A speedster who doesn't have instant change? Bandaging bleeding takes a
> phase IIRC.
It is only a minor point. Yes, the speedster should have instant change,
though I might declare that instant change was subsumed by the Speedster
power, just as Secret Identity would become part of either "Social
Disadvantage" or "Secret"
> >2. Change Environment, over an area, with variable effect to cover all
> >things that could be done by superspeed, is more expensive than your
method.
>
> But it's in the rules.
You suggested a new power that wasn't in the rules, and claimed mine was too
expensive. Now you champion a more expensive power, and criticize mine for
not being in the rules.
> >3. Many things done with such a power should be Transforms, not Change
> >Environment. This boosts the cost even more.
>
> Strickly yes.
I have tried these methods, and they are too expensive. I have tried just
chalking it up to penalties and SFX, and found that this granted some people
valuable special abilities solely due to SFX, or required massive penalties,
with speedsters buying massive levels "Only to negate time penalties", and
it was _still_ too expensive.
> >> I don't know of any rule which
> >> says that you cannot use more than one skill per phase.
> >
> >If you told me, "In this phase, my character will use Paramedics on all 5
> >injured people", I'd laugh in your face. And if you tried to buy the
> >ability, I'd point out that, under the present rules, it cannot be
bought,
> >except by an expensive Transform.
>
> Yes, but you would laugh because I cannot reach 5 people at a time. The
> speedster's paramedic special effect would make it possible.
In previous play, I have found such abilities to be worth more than SFX,
particularly when the character has several levels of universal superspeed.
The ability to do 25 things in the time that other people can do 1 is, in my
experience, worth roughly the same as two levels, and my suggested costs fit
that.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:15:04 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
> > At 05:25 PM 4/1/99 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
First off: I didn't say it, incorrect attribution.
> > Playing the piano is physical. Intellectual skills should never REQUIRE
1
> > hour or 1 day to accomplish. Inspiration is always a 0 phase action.
>
> You've never done a complex equation, or worked out a long chain of
> reasoning? Try doing 5th order quadratic equations as 0 phase actions, or
> analyze the latest "proof" of Fermat's Last Theorem.
He said it should never *require* it, which I have to assume from the
context of the conversation refers to game mechanically. In game mechanical
terms, there is little difference between such-and-such thing takes a day to
complete and applying a -10 (or so) to the roll. The average, or even the
highly skilled, mathematician is likely to take the same period to figure it
out either way. He never said that it wouldn't generally take that time,
merely that a minimum time would not be necessary.
Also, just because we mere mortals can't do these things as a 0 phase action
doesn't mean that some Wiley Supergenius couldn't do it. Mr. Fantastic does
complex equations during combat as a matter of course, for example. It could
be argued that it takes even him time to do them, that he can just fight at
the same time, but it still takes him no actions. And it could just as
easily be argued that each given equation is done as a 0 phase action.
He also looked over Victor's papers for a moment and found the flaw in the
formulas, when he was a college student: very close to a 0 phase action, if
put in game terms, or at most, say, a one turn action, far better than
ordinary folk can do.
Mr. Stark and Mr. Pym have also done these things, and these people are not
even supposed to be super-fast thinkers (as in speedsters), "merely" highly
intelligent but still human.
Real people have been known to do similar things, as well: not as impressive
(or at least not as flashy in final effect) in some ways perhaps, but
finding the solutions to purely mental exercises much faster than many
others would think possible. Truth is often stranger than fiction, and just
because I can't do a thing myself doesn't mean that no one in the world can
do that thing.
Trying to apply real-world examples to a game system, especially a superhero
game system or one which is trying to cover a wide variety of genres, rarely
works. I assume that none of the people on this list are super-powered
speedsters, for example (though I could be wrong), so whether they can do
complex equations in their heads as 0 phase action doesn't necessarily apply
to the individual who thinks at fifty times the speed that we do.
Anyway, really every avenue has been covered: Transforms for building things
(or Summon to create a building? Maybe an Entangle?) or repairing things,
assigning penalties to the skill roll for many other things, and simply
assuming that the high Speed speedsters generally have decreases the time to
do things really about cover it, don't they? Not that there aren't other
powers and abilities that could help, too.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:49:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: superpatriots and other madmen
Scott C. Nolan writes:
>
> At 09:25 AM 4/2/99 -0800, Steven J. Owens wrote:
> > Specifically relevant to Captain America, I think most americans
> >don't realize how weird our culture is, compared to the rest of the
> >world and history. Sometimes that weirdness is bad, dangerous, or
> >just plain embarrassing (the ugly american being the classic exaple),
> >at other times, other cultures regard us as somewhat childish (not
> >that I agree that it's necessarily a bad thing). But a lot of the
> >time (in my opinion, of course) it turns out to be something quite
> >special.
>
> That really is unbelievable insulting.
I'm sorry you choose to take offense at my characterization of
the last few hundred years of american (*) culture compared to the
last 4000+ years of the rest of the world's culture as "weird".
For that matter, I'm sorry you choose to assign negative
connotations to the term "weird". I happen to think that weirdness is
often positive. Considering the fact that anybody who participates in
this mailing list is by the standards of the mainstream indisputably
weird, I think you have some personal conflicts to resolve there.
For yet another matter, I'm sorry you choose to ignore the main
body of my post and react only to a single paragraph that is really
not central to the dicsussion.
(* well, if we're going to get all nit-picky I'd have to stop saying
"american" and start saying eurocentric united states, as opposed to
say Canada, South America, not to mention this entire hemisphere
before the europeans started mucking about with it back around the
beginning of the 15th century, but that gets quite awkward to write)
> The 'weirdest' thing about American culture is that we've allowed
> the press and radicals and Euro-whiners to convince the common man
> that we should aplogize for American culture.
It's interesting that you interpreted my comments as an apology.
In point of fact, if you reread the message I think you'll see that I
was saying that I'm proud of our culture, and our ideals. In spite of
some real flaws (frequent ethnocentrism to the point of ignorance and
rudeness) and some imagined (the perception of the american national
character as "childish") we have quite a bit to be proud of. What is
it you think we need to apologize for?
Maybe you're having a bad day or it's been a bad week (your
comments earlier in this thread show a similar shortness of
temper). Or maybe you're still a bit annoyed at that last exchange
where somebody took issue with political discussions. My original
post was about two or three screens longer, but I realized the extra
paragraphs weren't really relevant to the discussion of patriotism as
it relates to superheroes, so I cut them.
In any event, I'd be interested in continuing this discussion
(privately, since it's off-topic) and clarifying my comments. Let's
table it until monday, though, to give us time to consider the issues.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:29:55 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: superpatriots and other madmen
On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com> wrote:
> Specifically relevant to Captain America, I think most americans
>don't realize how weird our culture is, compared to the rest of the
>world and history. Sometimes that weirdness is bad, dangerous, or
>just plain embarrassing (the ugly american being the classic exaple),
>at other times, other cultures regard us as somewhat childish (not
>that I agree that it's necessarily a bad thing). But a lot of the
>time (in my opinion, of course) it turns out to be something quite
>special.
>
For an interesting (and not apologetic, for those of you who have a
problem with that) take on this, read "The Doctrine of Otherness", an
essay in David Brin's anthology "Otherness".
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:44:20 -0600
From: Mike Matherne & Lindsey Love <mikelindsey@home.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe hero-l
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:43:22 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: House Rules
Updated and snazzier looking House Rules page, changed for easier reading
and finding information, anyone interested please take a look and let me
know your thoughts on these. I have posted them on the list in the past
but I always like feedback and information.
http://www.viser.net/~joelat/hrules.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:53:05 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
From: Rick Holding <rholding@actonline.com.au>
> You know, much of the arguments about this can be desolved by saying
> that it takes 5 hours to fix the car with a speed of two (base human
> norm). Marvin the Speedster has a speed of 8. He can do it in an hour
> 15. Simple.
Except that we are looking for a mechanic that allows Marvin the Speedster
to do it in 2 minutes 57 seconds.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 10:24:34
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hero Chainsaw?
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:48:42 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Anyone ever built a chainsaw using Hero rules?
>If yes, could you post it? Thanks.
How about using xD6 HKA, Reduced Penetration, Str Does Not Add.
Chainsaws will go through soft stones, like limestone and sandstone,
but not harder ones. For that, just remove the RP and you get the
stone-mason's tool.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 10:17:13
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:24:45 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 02:50 PM 3/31/1999 GMT, Quentin Stephens wrote:
>>> Physical Limitation: No manipulatory limbs
>>
>>Not appropriate as it has TK, I would suggest.
>
> I disagree here. The TK does offset the problems formed by having no
>manipulatory limbs, but the offset is paid for by the points that the
>creature spends in TK. IOW, if the disabling effect of a 20-point Physical
>Limitation is offset by a 20-point Power, then the two can be considered to
>balance each other out. At least, IMHO.
But TK can do *so* much more, and at greater range.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 10:26:50
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: HOUSE RULE: Super Speedy Skills
On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:39:36 -0500 (EST), Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
>Much to my chagrin, there is no HERO mechanic that will allow
>a person to perform Skills at an accelerated rate.
Actually, there is, in Fantasy Hero. It gives the example of Arkelos
the Mage needing to enchant a ring to control a rampaging demon in a
hurry. A penalty of -2 per level on the Time Chart is imposed.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:16:20 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Converting D&D spells to HERO
Knock is a useful but cheap spell. I would go with a Change Environment
( open closed, locked doors ), Add 3 hex area to affect large doors,
maybe RSR to beat the lock. As for affecting magically sealed doors,
either get the GM to agree that this spell will release certain locking
spells or have a more powerful spell to open them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:37:14 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 10:17 AM 4/2/1999, qts wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:24:45 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>>At 02:50 PM 3/31/1999 GMT, Quentin Stephens wrote:
>>>> Physical Limitation: No manipulatory limbs
>>>
>>>Not appropriate as it has TK, I would suggest.
>>
>> I disagree here. The TK does offset the problems formed by having no
>>manipulatory limbs, but the offset is paid for by the points that the
>>creature spends in TK. IOW, if the disabling effect of a 20-point Physical
>>Limitation is offset by a 20-point Power, then the two can be considered to
>>balance each other out. At least, IMHO.
>
>But TK can do *so* much more, and at greater range.
While at the same time, doing much less -- for example, zero tactile
feedback (which would require Clairsentience).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:35:23 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Battle-light adventures?
Sounds to me like you have the perfect vehicle for a non-combat run.
Play out the rebuilding the city. Have your NPC hero get wounded and the
only doctor that can do the operation is lost in the city. Have all your
DNPC trapped somewhere. Just have the destuction of Mechanon destroy all
power and communication relays as a revenge.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:37:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Disfiguring Martial Artist (Disfiguring & MA attacks)
Maiming Powers
I am making a Martial Artist who maims his opponents.
In order to do this, I thought about using a combination of the
following:
3d6 COM Drain, Fade Rate: 1 year (+2 1/4), Trigger: Base attack
must do BODY (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2); Limitation: Attack must
target non armored hit location (can not penetrate Resistant PD) (-1/4),
Limitation: Must target face with appropiate penalty to strike (?),
Limitation: Quicker reversal of circumstances with proper healing,
reconstructive surgery (?)
4d6 Major Transform: Human facial features into disfigurement,
Trigger: Base attack must do BODY (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Cumulative (
+1/2); No Range (-1/2), Limitation: Attack must target non armored hit
location (can not penetrate Resistant PD) (-1/4), Limitation: Must strike
face with appropiate penalty to strike (?)
I'm missing point values for some of the Limitations. I'm also
not sure if this is all rules viable.
Also, he uses twin forearm guards with three blades extending from
the top (I think they're called shuko). I tried writing them up like
this:
36 3d6 HKA, 0 END (+1/2), AP (+1/2); OIF: Blade (-1/2), No KB (-1/4),
Real Blade Limitation (-1/4), Limitation: 1/3 Penetrating (-1/2)
16 Autofire (2 "shots") [0 END (+1); OIF: Blade #2 (-1/2), Seperate
Rolls and Levels (-1/4)]
6 0 END Adjustment on HKA from Autofire
58 Total Real Cost
Tell me what you think. I want to make sure this is all rules
viable.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:01:35 -0800
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekh@employees.org>
Subject: Re: Disfiguring Martial Artist (Disfiguring & MA attacks)
At 4:37 AM -0800 4/3/99, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> 3d6 COM Drain, Fade Rate: 1 year (+2 1/4), Trigger: Base attack
>must do BODY (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2); Limitation: Attack must
>target non armored hit location (can not penetrate Resistant PD) (-1/4),
>Limitation: Must target face with appropiate penalty to strike (?),
>Limitation: Quicker reversal of circumstances with proper healing,
>reconstructive surgery (?)
I don't think you need to pay a Trigger Advantage for this. I'd go
just the opposite way, making it Linked (-1/2) to the KA with the
Limitation "KA must successfully do BODY damage (-1/4 or more, depending
on how likely you think it will be for the KA to do BODY)". Then you
don't need to worry about whether it hit a non-armored location or not;
if it did BODY then it might disfigure them.
It's impossible to say how much of a Limitation the hit location
requirement is without knowing the character's OCV. (ie, if he can
target the head and still hit a typical opponent 90% of the time, then
it's not that much of a Limitation.) But assuming he doesn't have lots
of special levels for countering hit location penalties, I'd assume it's
at least a -1, possibly more.
If you have something to do the math for you (ie, Creation Workshop
or HeroMaker), I'd make the quicker healing with appropriate aid
Limitation apply only to the Increased Fade Rate Advantage rather than
the whole power. If applied only to the Advantage, I'd make it a -1/2
to -1 Limitation, depending on how common you envision proper healing
being. If you want to apply it to the whole Power for the sake of
simplicity, I wouldn't make it more than -1/4.
> 4d6 Major Transform: Human facial features into disfigurement,
>Trigger: Base attack must do BODY (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Cumulative (
>+1/2); No Range (-1/2), Limitation: Attack must target non armored hit
>location (can not penetrate Resistant PD) (-1/4), Limitation: Must strike
>face with appropiate penalty to strike (?)
Honestly, I don't think you need this at all. Their features being
disfigured can just be the special effect of the COM Drain. If you
want their facial features to be inoperative, then I'd go with a Drain
similar to the COM Drain above that affects senses as appropriate
(sight, smell, etc.)
- - Derek
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:49:50 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: superpatriots and other madmen
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven J. Owens <puff@netcom.com>
> Specifically relevant to Captain America, I think most americans
>don't realize how weird our culture is, compared to the rest of the
>world and history. Sometimes that weirdness is bad, dangerous, or
>just plain embarrassing (the ugly american being the classic exaple),
>at other times, other cultures regard us as somewhat childish (not
>that I agree that it's necessarily a bad thing). But a lot of the
>time (in my opinion, of course) it turns out to be something quite
>special.
>
>Steven J. Owens
>puff@netcom.com
>
Actually this has more to do with the common view western societies hold
of themselves. Currently it is popular to decry the westernised elements
of a culture, and consider them inferior to those of a more culturally
diverse peers, due to the current revisionist trend towards recognising the
'bad' elements of our own history. The problem with this, apart from the
clear
misasma of undeserved criticism attached to a western culture view by many
subcultural philosophies, is it results in an ignorance about the often
quite
appaling social and political conditions in non-western countries, not to
mention
their own 'ugly' tourists. The english, australians and americans all have
this
'evil-tourist-ruining-some-nice-nonwestern-coutries-ambiance' myth, but it's
not realised that other countries, such as western european populations,
can be pretty dang obnoxious, too. Far from being about ignorance,
mostly it has to do with alcahol.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:48:21 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: superpatriots and other madmen
> > That really is unbelievable insulting.
>
> I'm sorry you choose to take offense at my characterization of
> the last few hundred years of american (*) culture compared to the
> last 4000+ years of the rest of the world's culture as "weird".
Few hundred years? Hmmm.
> (* well, if we're going to get all nit-picky I'd have to stop saying
> "american" and start saying eurocentric united states, as opposed to
> say Canada, South America, not to mention this entire hemisphere
> before the europeans started mucking about with it back around the
> beginning of the 15th century, but that gets quite awkward to write)
Well, european-american culture is quite short no matter
what--now, as for truly american cultures--note the plural--well, they've
been around for quite a bit longer.
> some real flaws (frequent ethnocentrism to the point of ignorance and
> rudeness) and some imagined (the perception of the american national
> character as "childish") we have quite a bit to be proud of. What is
> it you think we need to apologize for?
Quite a bit to be proud of? Maybe, but we hear about that
constantly. We so rarely get to hear about all the horrors and ugly spots
of american history and culture--and by american I mean european-american
and the united states in particular. I'm sorry, but a few jokes about
rude Americans wearing shorts to the Notre Dame cathederal doesn't count.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #261
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:11 AM