Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 280
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:26 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #280
champ-l-digest Thursday, April 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 280
In this issue:
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
superhero LARP's
RE: VPP question ...
RE: VPP question ...
RE: VPP question ...
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
Re: VPP question ...
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: VPP question ...
RE: VPP question ...
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: superhero LARP's
RE: VPP question ...
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: VPP question ...
RE: VPP question ...
Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
Re: VPP question ...
Re: VPP question ...
Re: VPP question ...
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (sorry)
Re: VPP question ...
Apology required??
RE: VPP question ...
Re: Apology required??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:12:30 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
<snip>
> Forgive me, but going to Cons is not gaming it is game-related. Going to
> cons relates to being a gamer about as much as going to Star Trek
> conventions relates to watching TV. If I get a week off from work, I'd
> much rather spend it playing games with people I know, in a campaign I
> like, playing a character I've spent years developing than travelling to a
> distant city to play with people I know nothing about who probably are no
> fun to play with.
You can't say that going to cons isn't gaming, then say that you don't want
to do it because you don' t think you would like the gaming. Not being
gaming and not liking gaming are two different things. Your argument, in
fact, argues that going to cons _is_ gaming, as much as many activities
mentioned in the list
People go to the cons to game. If you don't want to game in that
environment, fine, but gaming is still what is done there.
It isn't like watching ST vs going to a ST con. It is like watching ST on TV
vs a movie theater. You may not like the theater, you may think that the ST
movies all suck, you may think all movies, period, suck. That doesn't make
it not watching ST.
If you are going by what is gaming vs what is gaming related, then stepping
on a 4-sided die, spilling food on a character sheet, and owning old gaming
books are also not gaming, but are rather gaming related.
> And LARPGs are not RPGs, they're improv-theater for vampire wannabes. If I
> could wield a baseball bat nearly as well as my latest fighter, playing a
> fighter would be less fun.
LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
> IMHO
Ditto.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:19:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: superhero LARP's
> From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
>
> LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
> role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
> in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
> and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
>
I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
super-hero LARPs ?
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:08:57 -0700
From: "David W. Salmon" <dwsalmon@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
Interesting discussion of Trigger vs Delayed Effect. It clarified a couple
things in my mind but ...
my original question still stands ...
If I use all of the points in my VPP to create, say, a triggered explosion
on a door. The trigger being opening the door without saying "open-says-me".
Are all of VPP points locked out or can I go ahead and do other things with
my VPP ? Thanks in advance for your help.
Any takers ??
Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org [mailto:owner-champ-l@sysabend.org]On
Behalf Of Dr. Nuncheon
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:46 PM
To: Brian Wawrow
Cc: Champions List
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Okay. Assuming that's accurate, what is the functional difference between
> 'Delayed Effect' and 'Trigger'?
>
> Assume you criteria is a command word like , "Fire". What, then is the
> difference between [for example] a 3D6 Flash [+1/2 trigger "Fire"] and 3D6
Isn't Trigger +1/4? Or are you assuming 'changeable trigger'?
> Flash [+1/2 D/Effect "Fire"]?
1) There's no 'command word' for Delayed Effect - or, in effect, it's like
Trigger: when I want it to happen.
2) You don't need to be present when a Trigger goes off - i.e. you can
use it to set up 'booby traps' for example. You do have to be present
to use a Delayed Effect.
3) There's a limit on how many Delayed Effects you can have at once. I
don't recall there being any for Trigger.
4) Triggers don't take a half action to use, DEs do.
5) Triggers can be detected unless they're Invisible. I'm not sure if DEs
can but I don't think so.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:24:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, David W. Salmon wrote:
> Interesting discussion of Trigger vs Delayed Effect. It clarified a couple
> things in my mind but ...
>
> my original question still stands ...
>
> If I use all of the points in my VPP to create, say, a triggered explosion
> on a door. The trigger being opening the door without saying "open-says-me".
> Are all of VPP points locked out or can I go ahead and do other things with
> my VPP ?
Gut reaction: those points are locked up until they are used. Or,
alternately, if you switch the points out of the triggered power, it goes
away.
Evidence:
'Continuing Effects' go away if in a MP/VPP and the points are switched.
Extra points from Aid, Constant/continuous powers, etc. Only the 'instant
results' of powers do not to this (damage, for example).
The Trigger power can be detected at any time before it goes off (and
presumably Dispelled or otherwise interfered with).
Essentially, the trigger power remains 'active' until it is set off, so
the points need to be allocated to the power. The same is true of Delayed
Effect and (AFAIK) Time Delay.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:29:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
> From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
>
> Gut reaction: those points are locked up until they are used. Or,
> alternately, if you switch the points out of the triggered power, it goes
> away.
>
> Evidence:
> 'Continuing Effects' go away if in a MP/VPP and the points are switched.
> Extra points from Aid, Constant/continuous powers, etc. Only the 'instant
> results' of powers do not to this (damage, for example).
>
What about entangle in a multipower ? Or damage caused by an energy
blast ? Those don't vanish when the multipower is switched.
I seem to remember this coming up before. Hopefully, it will be clarified
in 5th edition.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:43:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
At 03:19 PM 4/14/1999 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
>> From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
>>
>> LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
>> role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
>> in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
>> and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
>>
>
>I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
>super-hero LARPs ?
Not formally, but I did play in a Champions game once where the first
session took place at the headquarters of A Certain Gaming Club, and when a
fight broke out we (the players) all got up and used ourselves as counters.
:-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
- --- Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
>
> > From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
> >
> > LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
> > role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
> > in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
> > and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
> >
>
> I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
> super-hero LARPs ?
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/5560/DriveIn.html
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:41:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
At 05:08 AM 4/14/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>> This, unfortunately, I've also found to be true (to an extent, at
>>>least). In the past month or so, I've posted a question to that list, and
>>>Leah has as well, but the only reply I've seen was my (non-helpful) reply
>>>to Leah's question.
>>
>>Must be a different Leah, I won't be getting CW until I do some computer
>>upgrading (right after that car upgrade I need to do ....)
>
> Must be a different poster; sorry, Leah. :#]
> Excuse me, I think I'll go check my facts now....
I checked. It was Lisa Hartjes. My apologies to both ladies.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:44:35 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
At 01:32 PM 4/14/1999 -0700, David W. Salmon wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>Quick question for you all. I am not sure if this topic has been talked
>about before. If it has, please excuse the repeat.
>
>If I use all of the points in my VPP to create, say, a triggered explosion
>on a door. The trigger being opening the door without saying "open-says-me".
>Are all of VPP points locked out or can I go ahead and do other things with
>my VPP ? Thanks in advance for your help.
Offhand, logic would say no, those points are not locked out; however,
without looking at the rules, I think a strict reading would say the
opposite.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
- --- John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
> > >
> > > LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
> > > role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you
> do
> > > in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
> > > and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
> > >
> >
> > I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
> > super-hero LARPs ?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/5560/DriveIn.html
Whoops, wrong link. Try: http://home.mho.net/jwalker/lash.htm
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:41:41 -0400
From: E David Miller <golem@fred.net>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, David W. Salmon wrote:
>
> > Interesting discussion of Trigger vs Delayed Effect. It clarified a couple
> > things in my mind but ...
> >
> > my original question still stands ...
> >
> > If I use all of the points in my VPP to create, say, a triggered explosion
> > on a door. The trigger being opening the door without saying "open-says-me".
> > Are all of VPP points locked out or can I go ahead and do other things with
> > my VPP ?
>
> Gut reaction: those points are locked up until they are used. Or,
> alternately, if you switch the points out of the triggered power, it goes
> away.
>
> Evidence:
> 'Continuing Effects' go away if in a MP/VPP and the points are switched.
> Extra points from Aid, Constant/continuous powers, etc. Only the 'instant
> results' of powers do not to this (damage, for example).
>
> The Trigger power can be detected at any time before it goes off (and
> presumably Dispelled or otherwise interfered with).
>
> Essentially, the trigger power remains 'active' until it is set off, so
> the points need to be allocated to the power. The same is true of Delayed
> Effect and (AFAIK) Time Delay.
To then assist the original poster with his concept/request, I offer the
following advice. If you want to activate the Triggered power, from an MP or a
VPP, and have it remain, after the points from either construct have been
moved/reallocated to a new power, add the advantage Uncontrolled. This should
then permit the power to persist, beyond the reallocation of points. BTW - I do
think that "Trigger" is the more appropriate of the two selected advantages,
rather than Delayed Effect.
Hope this helps,
David Miller
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:46:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
> >
> > Gut reaction: those points are locked up until they are used. Or,
> > alternately, if you switch the points out of the triggered power, it goes
> > away.
> >
> > Evidence:
> > 'Continuing Effects' go away if in a MP/VPP and the points are switched.
> > Extra points from Aid, Constant/continuous powers, etc. Only the 'instant
> > results' of powers do not to this (damage, for example).
>
> What about entangle in a multipower ? Or damage caused by an energy
> blast ? Those don't vanish when the multipower is switched.
See above, on 'instant results' not doing so.
The reason an entangle doesn't disappear is because the 'power' isn't
being used any more - the entangle is already created. The reason the
damage doesn't disappear is because the 'power' isn't being used anymore -
the damage has already been done.
Conversely, the reason the extra points from Aid /do/ disappear is because
the Aid power is still 'on'. (Aid is kind of a wonky example, though,
just because it's the exception to so many rules.) Your Duplicate will
vanish if you switch away from that slot in the MP (assuming your GM
allowed you to make a Mp containing Duplication) because the power is
still 'on'.
Since a Triggered power is arguably 'on' until it is set off (as evidenced
by the fact that it is detectable, etc), the points in the MP should have
to remain allocated.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:55:40 -0400
From: werther@hilander.com (Jason Schneiderman)
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
>I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
>super-hero LARPs ?
There's one called "Masks" in the ILF databank - supposedly it's pretty
good, but I've never run it.
Jason Schneiderman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:58:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
What's the ILF ?
Curt
> From: werther@hilander.com (Jason Schneiderman)
>
>
> >I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
> >super-hero LARPs ?
>
> There's one called "Masks" in the ILF databank - supposedly it's pretty
> good, but I've never run it.
>
> Jason Schneiderman
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:04:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
Whoops. Need to read more carefully. So, it seems the real question
is whether the power is still 'on'. I'm pretty much going to have to
bow out at this point given my previous acknowledgement that I get
delayed effect & trigger mixed up, but I have one parting comment.
IF delayed effect is the advantage for which only a certain
number can be maintained at one time and IF Trigger has no limits on how many
powers can be maintaned at one time. It seems then that delayed effect
would lock-out the VPP, but trigger would not.
Curt
p.s. I suspect that the 'maintain at once' was more a matter of play-balance
than whether the power is 'on' or not.
> From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
> See above, on 'instant results' not doing so.
>
> The reason an entangle doesn't disappear is because the 'power' isn't
> being used any more - the entangle is already created. The reason the
> damage doesn't disappear is because the 'power' isn't being used anymore -
> the damage has already been done.
>
> Conversely, the reason the extra points from Aid /do/ disappear is because
> the Aid power is still 'on'. (Aid is kind of a wonky example, though,
> just because it's the exception to so many rules.) Your Duplicate will
> vanish if you switch away from that slot in the MP (assuming your GM
> allowed you to make a Mp containing Duplication) because the power is
> still 'on'.
>
> Since a Triggered power is arguably 'on' until it is set off (as evidenced
> by the fact that it is detectable, etc), the points in the MP should have
> to remain allocated.
>
> J
>
> Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
> Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:08:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
> > LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
> > role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
> > in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
> > and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
> I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
> super-hero LARPs ?
> Curt
Excuse me for a moment...
hAh-HA-Hee ho ha-ha *chortle* heh heh.... <whew>
Trust me. From first hand experience... It would be a tatical
nightmare. There wouldn't be a sufficent "suspension of disbelief" IMHO.
...and the tights, oh no, the tights!
In a game where you have powers like Energy Blast, Invisibility,
Flight, etc. I think it's best played table top.
...and in a SuperHero LARP, who will be the villians? How many
people would be playing? Would they _all_ be heroes?
LARP works suprsingly well for Murder Mystery, Dectective, or Noir
stories (where there are no "powers" or alien creatures per se). I've
said in the past the bastard cousin of role playing is the Murder
Mystery.
Gothic horror, science fiction, and low fantasy are do-able,
though special effects and costuming help tremendously... Often times,
there is combat or conflict, which is where "boffer" weapons, HBLT sets,
or character sheets and rules are truly needed.
High fantasy LARPs, SuperHero LARPs, and games like The
Masquerade, just don't work on a technical level because the image isn't
right, or the crowd isn't into it, or things are just plain silly (in The
Masquerade, for example, you walk around with your arms cross when you
have a certain power and you are said to be "invisible.")
Still, I have faith in LARPing... Somewhere out there, there are
role players... good role players, who play roles well and cast
themselves in these roles accordingly, who study acting... who wear
period garb... who know about make up... and special effects... and who
have the resources, props, sets, and location to orchestrate a Live Action
Role Playing Game where there are rules (but no one notices)...
Needless to say, I haven't found them yet.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:22:35 -0400
From: werther@hilander.com (Jason Schneiderman)
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
> In a game where you have powers like Energy Blast, Invisibility,
>Flight, etc. I think it's best played table top.
"Item Card: Flight
The bearer of this card may show it to his opponent to make a Fair Escape
from Combat."
What's so hard? ;)
> ...and in a SuperHero LARP, who will be the villians? How many
>people would be playing? Would they _all_ be heroes?
1. People who signed up to play them. What, you think everyone wants to be
the good guy?
2. Usually about 30-40 or so.
3. Nope.
> Still, I have faith in LARPing... Somewhere out there, there are
>role players... good role players, who play roles well and cast
>themselves in these roles accordingly, who study acting... who wear
>period garb... who know about make up... and special effects... and who
>have the resources, props, sets, and location to orchestrate a Live Action
>Role Playing Game where there are rules (but no one notices)...
>
> Needless to say, I haven't found them yet.
Do me a favor. Head over to www.ilfinfo.org, the home page of the
Interactive Literature Foundation, an organization dedicated to the
promotion of live-action roleplaying. You might be pleasantly surprised.
- - J
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:07:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
>> ...and in a SuperHero LARP, who will be the villians? How many
>>people would be playing? Would they _all_ be heroes?
>1. People who signed up to play them. What, you think everyone wants to be
>the good guy?
This is also the case on superhero MUSHes, which usually have PC villains.
They're perhaps less popular than heroes, but you still can fill the
important roles at least.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:32:07 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
> Okay. Assuming that's accurate, what is the functional difference between
> 'Delayed Effect' and 'Trigger'?
Delayed Effect allows you yourself to use the power later, while Trigger
allows you to put the power on an object and have it go off under a specific
circumstance.
The main use of Delayed Effect is to do all the preperation work (use up
foci, spend time using the power, and so on) and then use the power later
with only a half phase action. That's why it's only used in games with a
limit on how many effects you can have "up" at a given time.
If memory serves.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:46:40 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
At 02:11 PM 4/14/1999 -0400, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Okay. Assuming that's accurate, what is the functional difference between
>'Delayed Effect' and 'Trigger'?
>
>Assume you criteria is a command word like , "Fire". What, then is the
>difference between [for example] a 3D6 Flash [+1/2 trigger "Fire"] and 3D6
>Flash [+1/2 D/Effect "Fire"]?
I don't understand. Please, if you haven't already, define how the
command word "Fire" operates with Delayed Effect.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:48:12 -0700
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekh@employees.org>
Subject: Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
At 8:56 PM -0700 4/12/99, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> I was wondering if it would be possible to construct the following
>Advantage on a power:
> xd6 Attack, Increased STUN Multiplier, where the STUN Multiplier
>increases +1 for every 2 points the Attack roll was made by.
>
> Would this be Increased STUN multiplier with a Limitation, or
>Increased STUN multiplier with an Advantage (like Trigger), or something I
>haven't thought of yet.
Although maybe not elegant, probably the most "legal" way to buy this
would be like so:
xd6 xKA, Increased STUN Multiple x1 (+1/2), [ISM x1 (+1/2) Only if
Attack Roll made by 2 or more (-1/2)], [ISM x1 (+1/2) Only if Attack
Roll made by 4 or more (-1)], [ISM x1 (+1/2) Only if Attack Roll made
by 6 or more (-1.5)] etc. up to the max it can increase the STUNx.
If it ONLY has ISM if the Attack roll is made by 2 or more, you might
consider just using the normal ISM Advantage, and chalking it up to
SFX. (Ie, the fact that it gets no Advantage at all on Attack Rolls
made exactly or by one is balanced by the fact that it can potentially
have more than one level of ISM if the Attack Roll is made by 4 or more.)
If you think the character in question is likely to hit by a higher
margin freqently, you could up the Advantage.
I'm a big believer in the idea that the Hero System should have the
equivalent of Limited Power for Advantages, called "Enchanced Power".
Just like Limited Power, its value is assigned by the GM and it's
used for beneficial effects that don't seem to be reflected elsewhere
among Advantages or Powers. I also hold that the Basic Rule of Limitations
(A Limitation That Doesn't Limit the Character Isn't Worth Any Bonus)
should have a counterpart for Advantages: An Advantage That Doesn't
Make The Power More Effective Isn't Worth a Cost.
- - Derek
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:54:14 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
>> LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
>> role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
>> in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
>> and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
>>
>
>I guess it would be kind of silly, but are there such things as
>super-hero LARPs ?
yeah everyone thought they were funny until Joe was tossed off the 5 story
building cause in Hero he would just be bruised a little....
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:58:34 -0700
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekh@employees.org>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
At 11:58 PM -0700 4/12/99, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> I need a power that will allow a character to see as well at night
>as during the day.
> This is not infravision, where one may see things in heat
>patterns.
> Rather, it is a "mystical" sight, in which there is no darkness.
>It does not require any from of ambient radiation. It functions similar
>to normal sight, the only drawback (perhaps) being the sight "in the
>dark" is ever so slighty dimmed towards monochrome color shifts.
>
> It is not Spatial Awareness, because it can sense fine details.
>N-Ray vision and Detect/Sense also can't be used to simulate this power,
>nor can a bonus to PER only for the purposes of seeing in the dark.
> It is a directional, targeting, ranged, discriminatory sense,
>based on the Sight sense group.
Why not just buy Ultraviolet Vision, and give it a different SFX?
Ie, instead of saying it requires some UV rays to be present in order
to work, give it some other condition that makes sense for the power
and is about as common as lack of UV rays?
- - Derek
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1999 19:49:20 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
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* Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> on Wed, 14 Apr 1999
| What about entangle in a multipower ? Or damage caused by an energy
| blast ? Those don't vanish when the multipower is switched.
Entangles and damage are permanent effects, not continuing effects.
IMO, both Trigger and Delayed Effect are continuing effects, like Aid or
Suppress. Once you deallocate the framework reserve, the power goes away
as do their continuing effects.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> on Wed, 14 Apr 1999
> | What about entangle in a multipower ? Or damage caused by an energy
> | blast ? Those don't vanish when the multipower is switched.
>
> Entangles and damage are permanent effects, not continuing effects.
>
> IMO, both Trigger and Delayed Effect are continuing effects, like Aid or
> Suppress. Once you deallocate the framework reserve, the power goes away
> as do their continuing effects.
A problem here is: exactly how do 'aid' and 'drain' differ, aside from one
adds, one subtracts? Should drain also shut off when you change multipower
slots?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:19:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
>Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> * Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> on Wed, 14 Apr 1999
>> | What about entangle in a multipower ? Or damage caused by an energy
>> | blast ? Those don't vanish when the multipower is switched.
>>
>> Entangles and damage are permanent effects, not continuing effects.
>>
>> IMO, both Trigger and Delayed Effect are continuing effects, like Aid or
>> Suppress. Once you deallocate the framework reserve, the power goes away
>> as do their continuing effects.
>
>A problem here is: exactly how do 'aid' and 'drain' differ, aside from one
>adds, one subtracts? Should drain also shut off when you change multipower
>slots?
They don't, logically. The rule regarding Aid and Transfer exists because
it just plain old is imbalanced the other way, but that's not true of the
damaging effects.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:04:00 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
> LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
> role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
> in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
> and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
Quite right. While an ongoing campaign using White Wolf
occasionally used some live action--and an improved game of Live Action
Vampire with no official rules--almost all of my limited LARPing has been
"other."
Cons mostly, and usually scenarios set up so that they can be
contained in about a 4 hour slot with limited ability for the characters
to leave.
I have played a sort of live action Hero system. At Gencon they
have Drive-In Hero, which is quasi-live action.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:41:12 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (sorry)
At 01:12 PM 4/14/99 -0700, you wrote:
>From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>
><snip>
>> Forgive me, but going to Cons is not gaming it is game-related. Going to
>> cons relates to being a gamer about as much as going to Star Trek
>> conventions relates to watching TV. If I get a week off from work, I'd
>> much rather spend it playing games with people I know, in a campaign I
>> like, playing a character I've spent years developing than travelling to a
>> distant city to play with people I know nothing about who probably are no
>> fun to play with.
>
>You can't say that going to cons isn't gaming, then say that you don't want
>to do it because you don' t think you would like the gaming. Not being
>gaming and not liking gaming are two different things. Your argument, in
>fact, argues that going to cons _is_ gaming, as much as many activities
>mentioned in the list
>
I agree. I got emotional and argued badly.
>People go to the cons to game. If you don't want to game in that
>environment, fine, but gaming is still what is done there.
>
I disagree. While gaming happens at cons, gaming is not "what is done
there". From what I read in the "Con Report"s in gaming mags, cons are
mainly about the new products and presentations by the companies and the
costume contest. Most of the gaming goes on away from the con, back in a
hotel room.
>It isn't like watching ST vs going to a ST con. It is like watching ST on TV
>vs a movie theater. You may not like the theater, you may think that the ST
>movies all suck, you may think all movies, period, suck. That doesn't make
>it not watching ST.
>
My analogy was not to watching ST on TV, but on watching TV in general.
I'm not a "gamie" (in the way that Trekkies or Trekkers are into the whole
ST experience), I'm a gamer. I game.
>If you are going by what is gaming vs what is gaming related, then stepping
>on a 4-sided die, spilling food on a character sheet, and owning old gaming
>books are also not gaming, but are rather gaming related.
>
At least those things happen at/during a game and not the other way around.
>> And LARPGs are not RPGs, they're improv-theater for vampire wannabes. If I
>> could wield a baseball bat nearly as well as my latest fighter, playing a
>> fighter would be less fun.
>
>LARPGs are not Vampire. Vampire is a LARPG. There are others. They _are_
>role-playing; you play out a role. You just happen to move more than you do
>in table-top games. There is no doubt it is role-playing; I have done it,
>and role-playing is exactly what I was doing.
>
I apologize. I let some personal and local bias come through (loud and
clear, too).
We all know a case of some sicko or nutcase who made all gamers look bad.
Our local one was into Vampire. He looked a lot like the Comics Shop Owner
on the Simpsons. He got into drinking blood and offering teenage girls
experience points for sex. It got all over the local news, complete with
the usual tripe (I'm suprised the Michigan steam tunnel bit didn't surface)
during his trial.
Cases like this led me to the semi-conscious that that's a path to a bad
end, and one needs to look hard at anyone who shows up to game in costume,
because they've started down that path. I guess I'm as suceptable to
biased news as the "common folk". I let a few (well publicised) nutcases
turn me against an entire genre.
I got strident, and I got close to mean. I'm letting the whole thing drop.
Anyone who takes serious issue with any point I have raised may contact me
privately.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:32:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: VPP question ...
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Stainless Steel Rat writes:
> > IMO, both Trigger and Delayed Effect are continuing effects, like Aid or
> > Suppress. Once you deallocate the framework reserve, the power goes away
> > as do their continuing effects.
>
> A problem here is: exactly how do 'aid' and 'drain' differ, aside from one
> adds, one subtracts? Should drain also shut off when you change multipower
> slots?
Aid (and Transfer, for that matter) also have upper limits on how much a
stat can be boosted. They work differently from Drain just enough that I
don't really have a problem with it.
Here's a Q though: I've got a Transfer in my MP. I hit SSR with it and
'steal' 10 AP of STR. Next phase, I switch my MP. My extra STR goes
bye-bye. Does SSR get all of his back? (Gut instinct: treat the lost STR
as Drained, so no, he doesn't.)
Another Q: SSR gets his STR back after a brief pause, and whips out an END
drain gun, firing it at me and hitting, twice. Do I get my STR back at
5/turn or 10/turn?
Yet another Q: My identical twin super-cousin Lloyd and I decide to go
harass SSR some more. We both hit him with our STR Transfers. Does he
get his STR back at 5/turn or 10/turn? If it's different than above, why?
What if it were Lloyd and the Abominable Dr. Phibes with his
Strength-Draining Ray?
I guess what I'm basically asking is, 'do stats go back to normal at
5/turn* no mater how many powers they've been affected by, or does each
power wear off at 5/turn individually'.
* - unless the recovery rate is bought up/down, that is.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:08:22 +0100
From: Stephen McGinness <MCGINNESSS@parliament.uk>
Subject: Apology required??
I haven't recieved any mail from the list for two days now. I know our server is
playing up quite badly so I was wondering if I have been causing problems with
the list through bounced mail?? Perhaps so badly I have been removed??
I am getting mail just now so if someone could tell me one to one??
Stephen McGinness
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:45:42 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
I was under the impression that Delayed Effect worked with some kind of
firing criteria like a command word or whatever. Am I to understand that the
Delayed Effect power only waits for a 0-phase mental command from the
character?
] I don't understand. Please, if you haven't already, define how the
] command word "Fire" operates with Delayed Effect.
Now, what's this about the effects of Aid's fading to zero if you switch
your MP slot or reallocate your VPP? Does it say this in the BBB? No way.
Can't be. Too ridiculous. If it was going to be true for one adjustment
power, it would be true for them all.
I remember when I thought I knew how to play this game.
BRI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:19:50 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Apology required??
At 01:08 PM 4/15/1999 +0100, Stephen McGinness wrote:
>I haven't recieved any mail from the list for two days now. I know our
server is
>playing up quite badly so I was wondering if I have been causing problems
with
>the list through bounced mail?? Perhaps so badly I have been removed??
>
>I am getting mail just now so if someone could tell me one to one??
It's quite likely. I got three bounces from private mail, so I think
your server and the list's are to blame.
I don't know that an apology on your part is required (your server would
be the one, if anyone), but it may now be time to re-subscribe. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #280
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 AM