Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 282
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 1:24 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #282
champ-l-digest Saturday, April 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 282
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
RE: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: superhero LARP's
Re: superhero LARP's
RE: VPP question ...
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
re: superhero LARP
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Palladium to HERO
CHAR: Umber Hulk
Re: Palladium to HERO
Cartoon: The Spiral Zone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:17:27 -0400
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, E David Miller wrote:
>
> > > [Does AD&D still *have* these things, or did they vanish under the PC
> > > waves?]
> > >
> > > MARILITH
> > > (TYPE V DEMON)
> >
> > Actually, they _do_ still have their demons. These were first
> > reprinted in the Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix, and have
> > later been updated, expanded, and horrendous numbers of additional types
> > and such have been added with the advent of the PlaneScape campaign
> > setting, set in.....The Outer Planes.
>
> At some point I thought they stopped calling them demons, right?
Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're the
same things, though. * shrugs *
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:13:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> > At some point I thought they stopped calling them demons, right?
>
> Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're the
> same things, though. * shrugs *
Proboalby an attempt to appease those who thought AD&D was a game for
devil worshipers.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"What would you do with a brain if you *had* one?"
Dorothy (Judy Garland), from _The Wizard of Oz_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:34:35 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
At 03:13 PM 4/15/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>
>> > At some point I thought they stopped calling them demons, right?
>>
>> Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're the
>> same things, though. * shrugs *
>
>Proboalby an attempt to appease those who thought AD&D was a game for
>devil worshipers.
It isn't? Damn, and I spent all that money on goats.
I find it hilarious that several gaming groups recently protested to NBC over
the geeky representation that AD&D gamers got on the show "Jesse". I thought
that Wizards of the Coast got it right when they said that the protesters
sounded
needy and that being seen as geeks is a step up from being seen as devil
worshippers.
"I can feel the devil right here in the media center." - quote from a Heber
City,
Utah, school librarian, protesting the playing of D&D after hours in the
library in
1981.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> >> Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're the
> >> same things, though. * shrugs *
> >
> >Proboalby an attempt to appease those who thought AD&D was a game for
> >devil worshipers.
>
> It isn't? Damn, and I spent all that money on goats.
Gotta grill?
> I find it hilarious that several gaming groups recently protested to NBC over
> the geeky representation that AD&D gamers got on the show "Jesse". I thought
> that Wizards of the Coast got it right when they said that the protesters
> sounded
> needy and that being seen as geeks is a step up from being seen as devil
> worshippers.
Well, I will admit that description of the scene I was given made the
RPGers sound like total idiots and did nothing to improve the image of
*anyone* who plays an RPG.
> "I can feel the devil right here in the media center." - quote from a Heber
> City,
> Utah, school librarian, protesting the playing of D&D after hours in the
> library in
> 1981.
Is that where he was?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"What would you do with a brain if you *had* one?"
Dorothy (Judy Garland), from _The Wizard of Oz_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:41:40 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
>MARILITH
>(TYPE V DEMON)
>4 SPD 12 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
>10 REC 8
>80 END 20
>40* STUN 9 *Modifiers for Growth included
I'd give the Marilith a 5 Speed, 12 REC and at least a 75 Stun. This thing
is one of the toughest beings in the AD&D universe.
Otherwise, very good.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:43:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> >MARILITH
> >(TYPE V DEMON)
> >4 SPD 12 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
> >10 REC 8
> >80 END 20
> >40* STUN 9 *Modifiers for Growth included
>
> I'd give the Marilith a 5 Speed, 12 REC and at least a 75 Stun. This thing
> is one of the toughest beings in the AD&D universe.
I used the AD&D to Hero charts in the back of FH2. The numbers come out
on the low end pretty consistently, but I figure that's okay. Once can
always pump the creature up.
I'll make a note of this in my website version.
> Otherwise, very good.
Thanks.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"What would you do with a brain if you *had* one?"
Dorothy (Judy Garland), from _The Wizard of Oz_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:44:47 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
At 03:38 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
>> >> Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're
>the
>> >> same things, though. * shrugs *
>> >
>> >Proboalby an attempt to appease those who thought AD&D was a game for
>> >devil worshipers.
>>
>> It isn't? Damn, and I spent all that money on goats.
>
>Gotta grill?
>
>> I find it hilarious that several gaming groups recently protested to NBC
over
>> the geeky representation that AD&D gamers got on the show "Jesse". I
thought
>> that Wizards of the Coast got it right when they said that the protesters
>> sounded
>> needy and that being seen as geeks is a step up from being seen as devil
>> worshippers.
>
>Well, I will admit that description of the scene I was given made the
>RPGers sound like total idiots and did nothing to improve the image of
>*anyone* who plays an RPG.
Yeah. So what? They're comedies. They make fun of things. It's okay
with blondes, bosses, soldiers and gays; it should be okay with gamers.
Nobody's above being made fun of.
Ya can't get around that what we do is unusual, and people will make
fun of it. Hell, -I- make fun of it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:00:45 GMT
From: mhoram@relia.net (Curtis A Gibson)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>=20
>> "I can feel the devil right here in the media center." - quote from a =
Heber
>> City,
>> Utah, school librarian, protesting the playing of D&D after hours in =
the
>> library in=20
>> 1981.
>
>Is that where he was?=20
My wife played D&D early on and grew up in Heber City. I'll ask her if
she saw him. :)
- -Mhoram
We are human beings because there are communication between us which
are not experienced by rabbits....kindenss, patience..great books and =
fine music.
...It is hardly a demonstration of manhood...to prove that he wants
what a rabbit wants as much as a rabit wants it.
- Theodore Sturgeon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:51:36 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Type V Demon
My buddy's wife thought it was so funny she taped it and made us watch it.
It's kind of like being a health care worker and watching a naughty nurses
expose. Total crap that wasn't funny because it bore no passing resemblance
to reality. I'm the first one to laugh at myself and this subculture but
this was just so far off, it was stupid. As compared to the odd X-Files D&D
references that are generally bang-on. Rolling the dice, "C'mon! Papa needs
a new Sword of Wounding!" Also, the 3 geeks or the guy who runs The
Android's Dungeon on the Simpsons are an infinitely more clever satire of us
nerds.
] Well, I will admit that description of the scene I was given made the
] RPGers sound like total idiots and did nothing to improve the image of
] *anyone* who plays an RPG.
Let me tie this in with the whole devil worshipping and LARP threads. I used
to play in this Vampire LARP for a while that was run in this largely empty
piece of commercial rental space with a game store in front. Up above the
miniatures on the wall was this crudely done oil painting of a kid slumped
over a book [about Player's Handbook size] with blood pooling beneath him
and a smoking gun in his dead hand. Above and behind him was the image of a
laughing demon. Now, if you're going to run a gaming store where 13yr old
kids are going to come in with their moms to buy them supplements, what's
the worst kind of image you can portray to the ignorant public. Bingo!
Always bet on stupidity,
BRI
"You don't play Dungeons and Dragons as long as I have without learning a
thing or two about courage"
-the bald security guard that looks like my friend Big Gay Dan on
the funniest X-Files ever
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:42:40 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
At 01:07 PM 4/15/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jason Schneiderman wrote:
>> > In a game where you have powers like Energy Blast, Invisibility,
>> >Flight, etc. I think it's best played table top.
>> "Item Card: Flight
>> The bearer of this card may show it to his opponent to make a Fair Escape
>> from Combat."
>> What's so hard? ;)
>
> What's hard is the suspension of disbelief. Anyone who does
>something by saying "Invisible!" or "I'm Flying!" dosen't actually look
>like they are invisible or flying at all (unless said gamers have been
>exposed to halloucenogeic drugs :) ). Add to that the ability to do
>certain tatical things beyond the scope of normal humans...
Am I the only one (or in such a terribly small minority) who sees
problems when "difficulty in suspension of disbelief" is such an issue?
I'm not meaning to put down your point, Jason, and I apologize if it
comes across that way, but this seems to me to fall into the same category
as players who can't separate their own knowledge from that of their
characters ("I turn around and blast the guy sneaking up behind that wall!").
> Rules wise, it works... but I think the point of LARPs is to have
>more immersion than table top, and with _just_ descriptions of fantastic
>events while you're LARPing... I don't think that's enough.
"More immersion than table top" doesn't necessarily translate to
"absolute and total immersion." One could always get in costume and
role-play the parts that don't involve combat, have tags that indicate
certain special effects like being invisible or insubstantial, and play
combat in roughly the conventional manner except for using real buildings
and furniture and live human beings instead of maps and miniatures. It's
not as absolute as a zero-SFX game, but it's still more than the table-top
version.
(Disclaimer: I am not, unfortunately, speaking from personal experience
here, so those who have such experience may know better.)
> So 15-20 would be heroes, 15-20 would be villians? Where's the
>pathos? Where's the plot? More often than not, Superheroes and Villians
>fight... so would the game degenerate into a war game?
> How could you add intrigue and make the game more multi faceted?
>One way, I think, would be to have a dinner party type scenerio where only
>a few of the characters are heroes... and all the millionare playboys and
>reporters and police chiefs are held hostage. The 'heroes' have to
>escape, change into their costumes, and try to beat the bad guys, which
>could be very anti climactic...
Maybe. If everyone has some extra personal goal, though, there could be
a pretty good level of intrigue and pathos. If the GM plots things the
right way, there can be hero vs hero fights, villains turning to the law,
and plenty for normals to do.
(I've run plenty of games full of pathos in my time. Ask anyone who's
played with me, and they'll tell you that nobody runs a more pathetic
game.) ;-]
Just offhand, my way of doing it would be to have 5 players be heroes, 5
be villains, and the rest be assorted normals. The normals each have their
own reasons for being there -- some resource (money, information,
influence, a Contact or something else altogether) that the villains have
their reasons for wanting and the heroes have their reasons for protecting.
I could probably continue with more, but that should be enough to give
the general idea. :-]
> ...and I do think low powered heroes without powers would make a
>better game than high powered "super" heroes. I could see role playing
>Martial Arts, or fighting... I can't see someone shouting "Flame on!" so
>they're covered in 'fire', or pointing at someone and saying "Zap!"
> Even actors who have blue screens have problems doing the very
>same thing.
They have, but less today (with a wider audience for science-fiction and
other "blue-screen" milieux) than previously. Brent Spiner actually
developed some techniques and shared it with not only his fellow TNGers,
but anyone else who'd take the time to learn from him. (No, I'm not aware
of what these techniques are or involve.)
> Pretty much, I've learned that many systems for LARPing already
>out suck. The rules must be clearly defined and any ambuguities must be
>defined or eliminated. The more you seperate the players from the rules,
>the better. Drama can go a long way. People are easily impressed by very
>"simple" magic tricks, easily staged flashback sequences, "weak" NPCs who
>add flavor, "strong" NPCs who are few and far between and don't steal the
>spotlight, red herrings, variety, "special attention" (like audio tapes of
>ghosts for those who can hear them, letters from ex lovers, real props of
>objects they recive or clues, personalized preludes to fill in gaps, and
>tiny embellishments which add to the story), but most of all: severed
>heads... (which I custom make, and add to my collection. One of my guilty
>pleasures. :) )
> Dice and combat slow things down, as well as referencing Character
>Sheets. My advice is to go digital, which saves you alot of hassle from
>book keeping.
> The rest goes as per table top.
All of this strikes me as pretty darn good advice.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:02:32 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: superhero LARP's
I think a LARP of "costumed mystery-men" would be fantastic. You could have
characters like the Sandman (Wesley Dodds, not Morpheus), the Green Hornet
and Kato, the Shadow, the very early Batman, all their supporting cast,
etc. Fewer powers, less of a danger to suspension of disbelief.
Guy
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 4/15/99 at 1:42 PM Bob Greenwade wrote:
|At 01:07 PM 4/15/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
|>On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jason Schneiderman wrote:
|>> > In a game where you have powers like Energy Blast,
Invisibility,
|>> >Flight, etc. I think it's best played table top.
|>> "Item Card: Flight
|>> The bearer of this card may show it to his opponent to make a Fair
Escape
|>> from Combat."
|>> What's so hard? ;)
|>
|> What's hard is the suspension of disbelief. Anyone who does
|>something by saying "Invisible!" or "I'm Flying!" dosen't actually look
|>like they are invisible or flying at all (unless said gamers have been
|>exposed to halloucenogeic drugs :) ). Add to that the ability to do
|>certain tatical things beyond the scope of normal humans...
|
| Am I the only one (or in such a terribly small minority) who sees
|problems when "difficulty in suspension of disbelief" is such an issue?
| I'm not meaning to put down your point, Jason, and I apologize if it
|comes across that way, but this seems to me to fall into the same category
|as players who can't separate their own knowledge from that of their
|characters ("I turn around and blast the guy sneaking up behind that
wall!").
|
|> Rules wise, it works... but I think the point of LARPs is to have
|>more immersion than table top, and with _just_ descriptions of fantastic
|>events while you're LARPing... I don't think that's enough.
|
| "More immersion than table top" doesn't necessarily translate to
|"absolute and total immersion." One could always get in costume and
|role-play the parts that don't involve combat, have tags that indicate
|certain special effects like being invisible or insubstantial, and play
|combat in roughly the conventional manner except for using real buildings
|and furniture and live human beings instead of maps and miniatures. It's
|not as absolute as a zero-SFX game, but it's still more than the table-top
|version.
| (Disclaimer: I am not, unfortunately, speaking from personal experience
|here, so those who have such experience may know better.)
|
|> So 15-20 would be heroes, 15-20 would be villians? Where's the
|>pathos? Where's the plot? More often than not, Superheroes and Villians
|>fight... so would the game degenerate into a war game?
|> How could you add intrigue and make the game more multi faceted?
|>One way, I think, would be to have a dinner party type scenerio where
only
|>a few of the characters are heroes... and all the millionare playboys and
|>reporters and police chiefs are held hostage. The 'heroes' have to
|>escape, change into their costumes, and try to beat the bad guys, which
|>could be very anti climactic...
|
| Maybe. If everyone has some extra personal goal, though, there could
be
|a pretty good level of intrigue and pathos. If the GM plots things the
|right way, there can be hero vs hero fights, villains turning to the law,
|and plenty for normals to do.
| (I've run plenty of games full of pathos in my time. Ask anyone who's
|played with me, and they'll tell you that nobody runs a more pathetic
|game.) ;-]
| Just offhand, my way of doing it would be to have 5 players be heroes,
5
|be villains, and the rest be assorted normals. The normals each have
their
|own reasons for being there -- some resource (money, information,
|influence, a Contact or something else altogether) that the villains have
|their reasons for wanting and the heroes have their reasons for
protecting.
| I could probably continue with more, but that should be enough to give
|the general idea. :-]
|
|> ...and I do think low powered heroes without powers would make a
|>better game than high powered "super" heroes. I could see role playing
|>Martial Arts, or fighting... I can't see someone shouting "Flame on!" so
|>they're covered in 'fire', or pointing at someone and saying "Zap!"
|> Even actors who have blue screens have problems doing the very
|>same thing.
|
| They have, but less today (with a wider audience for science-fiction
and
|other "blue-screen" milieux) than previously. Brent Spiner actually
|developed some techniques and shared it with not only his fellow TNGers,
|but anyone else who'd take the time to learn from him. (No, I'm not aware
|of what these techniques are or involve.)
|
|> Pretty much, I've learned that many systems for LARPing already
|>out suck. The rules must be clearly defined and any ambuguities must be
|>defined or eliminated. The more you seperate the players from the rules,
|>the better. Drama can go a long way. People are easily impressed by
very
|>"simple" magic tricks, easily staged flashback sequences, "weak" NPCs who
|>add flavor, "strong" NPCs who are few and far between and don't steal the
|>spotlight, red herrings, variety, "special attention" (like audio tapes
of
|>ghosts for those who can hear them, letters from ex lovers, real props of
|>objects they recive or clues, personalized preludes to fill in gaps, and
|>tiny embellishments which add to the story), but most of all: severed
|>heads... (which I custom make, and add to my collection. One of my
guilty
|>pleasures. :) )
|> Dice and combat slow things down, as well as referencing Character
|>Sheets. My advice is to go digital, which saves you alot of hassle from
|>book keeping.
|> The rest goes as per table top.
|
| All of this strikes me as pretty darn good advice.
|---
|Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
| http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
|Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
| http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
- --_
Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)
At first I thought, "Mind control satellites? No way!"
But now I can't remember how we lived without them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: VPP question ...
>Now, what's this about the effects of Aid's fading to zero if you switch
>your MP slot or reallocate your VPP? Does it say this in the BBB? No way.
>Can't be. Too ridiculous. If it was going to be true for one adjustment
>power, it would be true for them all.
It's not spelled out that way on the Frameworks, but it's explicitly
mentioned among the Aid or Transfer that can go to any single power of one
special effect, and the idea was extended explicitly in Ninja Hero and later
the UMA. And it is true for any Adjustment increase, just not the
decreases. Remember, the increases already work under rules the decreasers
don't anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
>>Well, I will admit that description of the scene I was given made the
>>RPGers sound like total idiots and did nothing to improve the image of
>>*anyone* who plays an RPG.
>
>Yeah. So what? They're comedies. They make fun of things. It's okay
>with blondes, bosses, soldiers and gays; it should be okay with gamers.
>Nobody's above being made fun of.
>
>Ya can't get around that what we do is unusual, and people will make
>fun of it. Hell, -I- make fun of it.
Sure, but it doesn't help that this is the _only_ view of gamers many people
get. You at least get good images elsewhere of soldiers and gays (nobody
loves bosses :)); when was the last time you saw an image of a gamer that
wasn't a clueless loser?
Admittedly, there are plenty of clueless losers in the hobby, but it'd be
nice if you occasionally saw this wasn't all there was to it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:16:04 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Ummmm I believe they do not actually use either D words or classic D names when referring
to imaginary other planar monsters, they are berry berry PC.
E David Miller wrote:
> Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >
> > [Does AD&D still *have* these things, or did they vanish under the PC
> > waves?]
> >
> > MARILITH
> > (TYPE V DEMON)
>
> Actually, they _do_ still have their demons. These were first reprinted in the
> Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix, and have later been updated,
> expanded, and horrendous numbers of additional types and such have been added
> with the advent of the PlaneScape campaign setting, set in.....The Outer Planes.
>
> Just FYI, to answer your question.
>
> David Miller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:16:09 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
Haven't you heard due to revisionist history AD+D never did have any of the D
words except dungeons and nobody got tortured in those anyways, we all
collectively imagined them and its a good thing for a game based on
imagination ;)
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> [Does AD&D still *have* these things, or did they vanish under the PC
> waves?]
>
> MARILITH
> (TYPE V DEMON)
You really should have included the psionics... AD+D psionics are a bit poorly
implemented but have nice style, how well can just psionic combat alah AD+D be
implemented without extreme amount of bizarre but fun machinations.
Lance
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:34:04 -0700
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
That was then, this is now, which has become an earlier then. From what WotC's
been saying in the last year, they're demons and devils again, at least in
Greyhawk.
Scott Bennie
Mathieu Roy wrote:
> Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, E David Miller wrote:
> >
> > > > [Does AD&D still *have* these things, or did they vanish under the PC
> > > > waves?]
> > > >
> > > > MARILITH
> > > > (TYPE V DEMON)
> > >
> > > Actually, they _do_ still have their demons. These were first
> > > reprinted in the Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix, and have
> > > later been updated, expanded, and horrendous numbers of additional types
> > > and such have been added with the advent of the PlaneScape campaign
> > > setting, set in.....The Outer Planes.
> >
> > At some point I thought they stopped calling them demons, right?
>
> Correct. They now call them tanar'i. Devils got called baatezu. They're the
> same things, though. * shrugs *
>
> Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:34:18 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
Okay, coming at this from a different direction:
How about, instead of trying to do it with some funky enhanced sense, you do
it as:
Change environment, only to provide light, only for you (invisible to everyone
else?)
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:03:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: re: superhero LARP
<<What's hard is the suspension of disbelief. Anyone who does something
by saying "Invisible!" or "I'm Flying!" dosen't actually look like they
are invisible or flying at all (unless said gamers have been exposed to
halloucenogeic drugs :) ). Add to that the ability to do certain tatical
things beyond the scope of normal humans...>>
You have a an unimaginatie childhood? [:8) I have fond memories of
riding my alien motorcycle with the flamethrower with Super Woman flying
along side. People with an active imagination can accept alot. Of course
my disbelief wasn't suspended, it was expelled. =A0 [:8)
I've LARP once in recent years and realized it's one thing for me to
decide my barbarian would avoid trails, another for me to run full tilt
up the side of a hill. On the otherhand, I was a lot better at playing
in charecter then the kids that played. I still laugh about asking the
group's leader how he walked though a wall ( that he marked the outline
for ), the Cave guardian that wouldn't let us pass, after his boss had
told us to leave, ( and my favorite ) Trying to sacrifice my brother's
wolfman charecter when a shaman said he could cast a spell we needed if
he had a dog to sacrifice =A0 [:8)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:25:04 EDT
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
In a message dated 99-04-14 10:29:12 EDT, jeffj@io.com writes:
> (Apologies for piggybacking...accidentally deleted the original message)
>
> > >> > I scored 67%pure (33% corrupt) and I say again this test is unfairly
> > biased
> > >> > against folks who don't go to Cons and disdain LARP.
> > >>
> > >> I got a 31% corrupt and I agree.
>
> It occurs to me that saying that the gamer purity test is unfairly biased
> agains people who don't LARP or go to cons is about the same as saying the
> standard purity test is unfairly biased against people who don't have sex.
I could agree wrt cons, but not wrt LARP. Some of us are grognards who
consider LARPing to be a form of artsy-fartsy "avant gaming" For a crusty old
rpg grognard, the only form of "LARP" that's heavy-duty enough to be worthy
of respect is the SCA - and even there we may respect it without belonging or
participating in it.
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:14:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 ErolB1@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 99-04-14 10:29:12 EDT, jeffj@io.com writes:
> >
> > It occurs to me that saying that the gamer purity test is unfairly biased
> > agains people who don't LARP or go to cons is about the same as saying the
> > standard purity test is unfairly biased against people who don't have sex.
>
> I could agree wrt cons, but not wrt LARP. Some of us are grognards who
> consider LARPing to be a form of artsy-fartsy "avant gaming" For a crusty old
> rpg grognard, the only form of "LARP" that's heavy-duty enough to be worthy
> of respect is the SCA - and even there we may respect it without belonging or
> participating in it.
No offense, but what does the respect of crusty old rpg grognards have to
do with whether something should be included on the 'Gamer Purity Test'?
A LARP is a role-playing game (a different kind, certainly, but it's
role-playing and there's a game) and there's a lot of gamers who LARP.
Personally, I'm beginning to think that there's people who are taking this
test way too seriously - using it as a sort of gamer penis size contest -
and see it as a challenge to their egos that they will never get to answer
'yes' to all of the questions on the test. But I could be wrong.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Type V Demon
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Lance Dyas wrote:
> You really should have included the psionics... AD+D psionics are a bit poorly
> implemented but have nice style, how well can just psionic combat alah AD+D be
> implemented without extreme amount of bizarre but fun machinations.
The psionic attack powers of the Type V don't seem to be all that special
from a Hero stand point. I guess one could create a variety of Ego
Attacks (such as AP, Penetrating and Autofire), but AD&D psionics can kill
and all the defenses don't make a whole lot of sense and well... it seemed
like too much trouble and also didn't fit witht he general ide of hte
creature.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is
make sure we keep talking."
Dr. Stephen Hawking, in Pink Floyd's "Keep Talking"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:14:27 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: Palladium to HERO
Has anyone come up with a decent conversion system for Palladium to HERO? I've an idea or two that I'm toying around...
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:32:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Umber Hulk
UMBER HULK
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
35* STR 10 11- 3200kg; 7d6
18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
21 CON 22 13-
18* BODY 10 11-
10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-
10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3
20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
0 COM -5 9-
11 PD 7 Total: 17 PD / 6 PDr
8 ED 4 Total: 14 ED / 6 EDr
3 SPD 2 Phases: 4, 8, 12
10 REC 4
42 END 0
40* STUN 1 * Includes modifiers for Growth
Total Characteristics Cost: 89
Movement: Running: 3" / 6"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Tunneling: 3" / 6"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
10 Combat Skill Levels: +2 with HTH
8 Combat Skill Levels: +4 OCV with Confusion
Umber Hulk Powers:
20 Great Size: Growth: 3 Levels, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2),
Always On (-1/2)
+15 STR, +3 Body, +3 Stun, -2 DCV, +2 PER vs, +1" reach, -3" KB
80 Confusion: Drain: 6d6 vs INT, Ranged (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2), Must
make eye contact (-1/2)
22 Claws: HKA: 1d6 (2d6 with STR), Armor Piercing (+1/2), END 2
25 Mandibles: HKA: 1 1/2d6 (3d6+1 with STR), END 2
18 Thick Hide: Armor: 6 DEF
- -6 Running: -3" (3" Total), END 1
20 Tunneling Multipower: 20 Point Pool
2 u Stone: Tunneling: 1", DEF 6, END 1
2 u Hard Packed Dirt: Tunneling: 2", DEF 3, END 1
1 u Loam: Tunneling: 3", DEF 1, END 1
5 Night Vision: IR Vision
Background Skills:
3 Climbing 13-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Tracking 11-
0 Umber Hulk (native)
222 Total Powers & Skills Cost
311 Total Character Cost
75+ Disadvantages
20 Distinctive Features: Huge black-skinned humanoid creature (NC, M)
Psychological Limitation:
15 Highly fond of the flesh of humans and humanoids (C, S)
10 Malicious and cruel (C, M)
191 Experience
311 Total Disadvantage Points
Appearance:
An umber hulk is a huge humanoid figure standing a full eight feet tall
and five feet wide. They are black in hue, with a lighter grayish front
and head. The face is equipped with two long mandibles (much like those
of a stag beetle), and four eyes. Two of the eyes are normal, while two
are reddish compound eyes similar to those of an insect.
Ecology:
Umber hulks are subterranean carnivores that prey upon numerous types of
large burrowing animals (such as giant and/or purple worms, anhkhegs,
carrion crawlers and the like). They have a marked preference for humans
and other humanoids however and have been known to assault villages of
humans, elves, halflings and other races. If desperate, the umber hulk
will eat vegetable matter as well as certain forms of cave fungus.
Motivations:
Normal animal motivations. Although reasonably intelligent, umber hulks
aren't driven to do much more than survive. A few may attempt to enact
some sort of plan to ensure a constant food supply, but most umber hulks
are nomadic, fallowing the tunnels left by their larger prey.
Combat Techniques:
In combat, an umber hulk will lash out with its iron-hard claws, tearing
soft prey to shreds. Larger types of prey will be savagely bitten with
the power mandibles. Against an intelligent opponent, the umber hulk will
try and lock gazes, using its ability to confuse in order render a victim
helpless.
Other Names: Umber Bulk
Rumors:
It is said that there is a species of umber hulk that dwells under water.
Designer's Notes:
The umber hulk is found in the pages of the original AD&D Monster Manuel.
Most of the material here was created whole-cloth in an effort to provide
a somewhat realistic background of these creatures.
The Confusion power (aka the INT Drain), should use the optional Negative
Characteristic rules from "Hero Almanac I". Basically, these rules work
as follows:
At INT 0 or below, the character must make an INT roll to make decisions.
This includes moving, continuing an action, attacking, casting spells and
so on. Characters who have been drained to negative their starting INT
(or -30 which ever is greater) can no longer make any new decisions. Note
that your INT roll is based on your current drained in. A -10 INT, for
example, has an INT roll of 7- [9- (-10/5) = 7].
If you don't like this ruling, then give the umber hulk an Entangle, Fully
Invisible, BOECV, Uses EGO Instead of STR to resist (this is most likely a
+1/4 to +1/2 Advantage). For more information on this construct, see "The
Ultimate Mentalist".
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is
make sure we keep talking."
Dr. Stephen Hawking, in Pink Floyd's "Keep Talking"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:23:39 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Palladium to HERO
I have. I will dig it up.
"Johnson, Adam" wrote:
> Has anyone come up with a decent conversion system for Palladium to HERO? I've an idea or two that I'm toying around...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Adam Johnson
> Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
> ajohnson@clariion.com
> Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
> Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
> ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:23:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Cartoon: The Spiral Zone
Does anyone here remember a cartoon and toy line known as "the
Spiral Zone"?
I had something to do with weird extradimensional energies, or a
disease...
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #282
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 AM