Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 295

Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 295
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 5:58 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #295

champ-l-digest Tuesday, April 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 295

In this issue:

Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
I'm outta here
Re: CHAR: (next)
Re: CHAR: (next)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:01:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> 18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
Dare I say, I think this is too low... unless compensated with
various OCV/DCV Levels.
> 13 BODY 6 12-
I think he should have more BODY than this. Look at what the
Emperor did to him... and he still survived.
Also, he might have more BODY/Armor/STUN because of his hit
locations.

> I also have roughed out some Force Powers. They are:
> Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
BOECV, Clairsentience or Mind Link
> Telekinesis: 50 STR (tossing the boxes around in ESB
Might want to make this Invisible... or more like Psychokinesis
from K5.

> I was thinking some sort of Precog... he *knew* that the rebels were on
> Hoth.

That works...
...you could always take the "easy out" and give him a Force
Powers VPP.
What are you thinking about doing with the END costs and
Limitations on the Force Powers?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:04:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:

> > Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> > 10 STR 0 11- 100kg; 2d6

> I've always imagined a Rust Monster to be stronger than this. I
> remember seeing a drawing Rust Monster picking up a human in at least one
> book.. metal isn't exactly the lighest stuff. Coincidentially, Rust
> Monsters always appear larger than a "normal" human. I think they've
> always been depicted that way. If anything at all, from their
> description, I've also assumed they weigh more than an average
> human (their hide, and assumabally the strange internal chemistry) , but
> with out the reference material in front of me, I really don't know.

The Monster Manual syas the RM is 'man-sized', the art didn't show
anything like a sense of scale and the description said zip. Now, the
Density Increase makes sense, but the book didn't quite say anything about
it. I decided that a 5' long, 200 lb critter wasn't all that stronger or
different than the averag human.

> > Rust Monster Powers:
> > 30 Metal to Rust Elemental Control: 30 Point Pool
> > 45 1 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major,
> > Cumulative (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2)
> > 20 2 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major,
> > Cumulative (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2)
>
> An alternate, and cheaper, method of doing this would have been a
> 0 Range, 0 END, Persistant, Cumulative Transformation Attack, Always On.

This wouldn't serve as a Damage Shield and the MM says taht hitting the RM
with a metal weapon will rust the weapon.

> Tunneling (Only through metal), might be another power to
> consider.

The Transformation Attack would do that too I think.

> And for all those rules sticklers out there, LS: Can digest metal,
> or LS: Immune to Poison could be handy (after all, if I knew I was going
> to be in a dungeon with a Rust Monster, I'd have a sack of tin coins and
> iron spikes coated with injested poison... in fact, I'd start a business
> as an exterminator!).

But, if the monster eats 'rust' instead of normal food, it shopuldn't get
the LS. I'd give the LS to a creature that can feed on normal food *and*
rust.

> > 18 Smell Metal: Detect: Metal, Sense, Ranged, 14-
> Might seem redundant, but you might want to add "Limitation: Based
> on Sense Group Smell instead of Sense Group Special, 0 points."

maybe. I called it 'smell metal' but it might be a different sense than
just 'msell'.

> More questions:
> Do they use their antenne/tentacles like apendages? If so, would
> the Phys. Lim for manipulating objects be in order?

Yes. It might be able to lift objects with its tentacles, but I doubt it
coulddial a phone or work a door knob.

> Do they have any natural attacks aside from rusting?

Not that the book says.

> What about the rocky club at the end of their tail? What about a
> pip for the beaks? (I mean, even house cats get at least a pip of Reduced
> Penetration HKA for clawing attacks).

I debated the 'tail attack', but the book usually mentions any and all
attacks for a creature. Now, as for the beak, I decided that itwasn't big
enough to be harmful (see the description).

> I've always been quite partial to Sci-Fi...
>
> "After the hull breach on decks 8-12 A, causing a loss or pressure
> and atmosphere, negating life support functions and artifical gravity, we
> sent five engineering cadets to inspect, and if possible, repair the
> damage.
> _If_ what you're suggesting is true, even if there was some
> xenological intruder in our ship, there would be little chance they could
> hurt them. After all, they're wearing their tri-chain ferro-titanium-mylar
> lattice pressure suits..."
> "Yeoman Johnson... why have you broken off tranceiver contact?
> What's that crunching noise? Johnson, Johnson?!?"

Heh... I like that one.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:04:38 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

Quick suggestion:Lower INT, raise EGO. Darth never demonstrated
exceptional intelligence, certainly not genius-level. He was a warrior
and leader, not a thinker. (Indeed, one could argue he was a bit dim
at times, what with strangling every competant member of his crew and
leaving him surrounded by yes-men)

But he *was* an incredibly strong-willed individual -- strong enough
to serve the ark Side yet not be consumed by it, and to stand up to
the Emperor. That takes Ego.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:13:37 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

>> > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
>> >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
>>
>> He did, but the link was merely present. He can do it at range
>> and without LOS.
>
>Uhm... any suggestions for *that*?

Clairsentience. This would also explain "He is here. I feel it!"

>
>> > Telekinesis: 50 STR (tossing the boxes around in ESB
>> > Missile Deflection: Up to Energy Attacks (seen in ESB)
>> > Superleap: (seen in ESB)
>> > Force Sensitive: Detect (Seen in SW)
>> >
>> >I was thinking some sort of Precog... he *knew* that the rebels were on
>> >Hoth.
>> >
>> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>>
>> 2d6 HKA, Armor Piercing or possibly 2d6 RKA, Armor Piercing, No Range.
>> But the lightsaber fights often show muscle as being a factor, so I'd go
with
>> the former.
>
>Only 2d6? I was thinking Penetrating (and 3d6) since Luke chops right
>through the hatch on the AT-AT.

Season to taste. If you make it 3d6, go with the RKA, No Range.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:09:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

> > 30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
> Sticklers note that the presence attack is usually boosted by 'Extreme
> Reputation', 'Displays Powers', and '(Incredibly) Violent Action'

Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.

> > I also have roughed out some Force Powers. They are:
> > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> > another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)

> I dunno if NND is the right idea here, unless you have it as 'Can do BODY'
> or even 'Does BODY after STUN is exhausted'. I doubt that Darth would be
> limited to knocking somone out with the power, after all.

Yes, IMO, this is like the NNDs from UMA and NH that o BODY *after* you
exhaust all the Stun.

> > Telekinesis: 50 STR (tossing the boxes around in ESB
> > Missile Deflection: Up to Energy Attacks (seen in ESB)
>
> Note that Darth, unlike Luke (and most other Jedi), does not need an OAF:
> Lightsaber to do this trick...

Yup.

> > And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>
> Owie. One of the big toughies in modelling SW. Either you kill someone
> or you cut something off of them.
>
> My first instinct would be NND or AVLD, Does Body - considering the ease
> with which the sabers seemed to cut through anything, including AT-AT
> underbelly armor. (I don't buy that the underbelly armor is weak, since
> the thing is supposed to take on ground positions) You'd probably want to
> use Hit Locations, and some sort of crippling/limb loss mechanic.

Ouch.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:10:56 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

>So it's based on ECV & he has Mind Scan, maybe? Mind Scan would make a lot
>of sense - he can sense Luke's presence on a planet, Obi-Wan's presence on
>the Death Star, etc. (It might only work on Jedi & Force users, though.)

The problem with Mind Scan is that it requires an Attack action...in Jedi,
for example, he just sorta gets a hunch that something's up with the
shuttle. I also get the impression that the range at which this power works
varies widely, based more on plot than anything else.

I would suggest:

Detect Force-stuff (people with Force potential, millions of voices crying
out and suddenly being silenced, etc.): 360, Range, Discriminatory.

+"a bundle" Telescopic Sense, Limitation: "Range Penalties based on
vagaries in the plot^H^H^H^HForce". (Alternatively, say that certain events
- -- planets dying, your son passing by -- are detectable over much longer
ranges.)

Geoff Speare

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:10:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

> > > > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> > > >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
> > >
> > > He did, but the link was merely present. He can do it at range
> > > and without LOS.
> >
> > Uhm... any suggestions for *that*?
>
> You could make it an Ego Attack (Does Body) - use Mind Scan to get the
> lock (i.e. figure out where the guy is) and then the Force to crush his
> throat. This might require Concentration, since we never see Darth doing
> it in combat.

Wow... that works really well, too. Is this a go with most people?

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:10:46 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

My take on lightsabres, and why only Jedi use them:
3d6 NND Killing (GM's option to permit, +2) defense is another
lightsabre or a force field or hardened armor. OAF (Lightsabre), Side
Effects:2d6 KA on self when you miss an attakc roll in a 'real' combat
situation. (The idea is that the blade is weightless, so you are very
likely to overswing if you don't contact what you expected to contact)
Alternatively, RSR:Force Manipulation

A lightsabre can also be used for missile deflection, don't forget.

But remember, there's nothing inherently magical about them -- Han
*did* pick one up and use it in ESB, and he's about as froce-sensitive
as womp-rat.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:15:29 -0400
From: E David Miller <golem@fred.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
> > At 03:38 PM 4/27/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > >Note: My Darth will be taken from the films, *not* the Star Wars RPG or
> > >any of the novels. This menas that some of the powers he is "supposed" to
> > >have won't appear. That gotten out of the way, I'm looking for input on
> > >his stats. My rough layout is a follows:
> > >
> > >DARTH VADER
> > >Dark Lord of the Sith
> > >
> > >Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> > >30 STR 20 15- 1600kg; 6d6
> > A bit high, I think. I'd go with 25. Or even 20.
> He does lift a man up off the ground (enough that his boots are swinging
> freely), holds him at arms length and still has enough STR left over to
> crush the man's throat (and toss him a fair distance to the wall). *And*
> he does this with *one* hand.

I'd stick with 30, here, for just those kinds of reasons.

> > >I also have roughed out some Force Powers. They are:
> > > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> > >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
> >
> > He did, but the link was merely present. He can do it at range
> > and without LOS.
>
> Uhm... any suggestions for *that*?

Funny you should ask. :) Try using some of the rules from Ultimate
Mentallist. Assume that his TK is BOECV. Now build the following power: xd6
EB, BOECV, Invisible Effects (+3/4) - Only visible to Force sense/Mental Group,
Does Body (+1). I wouldn't make it a real NND, because I'm not sure armor would
stop it, even around the neck; and, I never saw any of them try this stunt on a
Force-active target; I think it goes against MD.... (hope this at least helps to
give you some ideas.)

> > >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
> >
> > 2d6 HKA, Armor Piercing or possibly 2d6 RKA, Armor Piercing, No Range.
> > But the lightsaber fights often show muscle as being a factor, so I'd go with
> > the former.
>
> Only 2d6? I was thinking Penetrating (and 3d6) since Luke chops right
> through the hatch on the AT-AT.

I'd go with a 2.5d6HKA, NND Does Body (+2) - defense is a parry with another
LightSaber. This would go up to a 3d6 HKA with a STR of 15, sufficient to kill
a normal human with a high roll (solid hit) in a single stroke, and serious
damage regardless. But that's just me, and I don't have a problem with
terrifying players and other GMs, so....

David

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:12:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:

> > Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> > 18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6

> Dare I say, I think this is too low... unless compensated with
> various OCV/DCV Levels.

It will. But, he isn't that fast, I mean, Han could fast draw on him and
Obi Wan was holding him off quite well.

> > 13 BODY 6 12-

> I think he should have more BODY than this. Look at what the
> Emperor did to him... and he still survived.

In RotJ? Yeah, more BODY might be in order.

> Also, he might have more BODY/Armor/STUN because of his hit
> locations.

I was going to give him Armor due to his costume.

> > I also have roughed out some Force Powers. They are:
> > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> > another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
> BOECV, Clairsentience or Mind Link

Been suggested, I thin this is the way to go.

> > Telekinesis: 50 STR (tossing the boxes around in ESB
> Might want to make this Invisible... or more like Psychokinesis
> from K5.

It will be invisible.

> > I was thinking some sort of Precog... he *knew* that the rebels were on
> > Hoth.
>
> That works...
> ...you could always take the "easy out" and give him a Force
> Powers VPP.

Yeah... maybe. Either that or a big EC.

> What are you thinking about doing with the END costs and
> Limitations on the Force Powers?

END? Give him a lot of END, or just buy them down.

What limitations were you thinking of?

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:22:37 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

At 04:09 PM 4/27/99 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
>> > 30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
>> Sticklers note that the presence attack is usually boosted by 'Extreme
>> Reputation', 'Displays Powers', and '(Incredibly) Violent Action'
>
>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.

I think 30 is right. He's scary. The officer was stupid and paid for it.
Darth -is- presence.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:

> > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
> >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
>
> So it's based on ECV & he has Mind Scan, maybe? Mind Scan would make a lot
> of sense - he can sense Luke's presence on a planet, Obi-Wan's presence on
> the Death Star, etc. (It might only work on Jedi & Force users, though.)

Yeah, this is looking like the way to go with the power. Maybe I should
just give him the damn VPP and be done with it...

> > Telekinesis: 50 STR (tossing the boxes around in ESB
> > Missile Deflection: Up to Energy Attacks (seen in ESB)
> > Superleap: (seen in ESB)
> > Force Sensitive: Detect (Seen in SW)
> >
> A discriminatory detect, I'd say. "The Force is strong in this one." It
> might make sense to tie this into Mind Scan, though. Can you make a Detect
> Based on ECV? Or maybe just defining Mental Awareness (Discriminatory) as
> Force sensitive could work.

Actually, I just realized that Mental Awareness *is* the power to use.

> Don't forget Telepathy: "There is... a sister!" And that Armor surely
> provides some resistant defenses. Depending how you'd define the Emperor's
> Force lightning stuff, Vader appears to have higher defenses (rED? Power
> Defense?) than Luke (though of course he took a lot of BODY and made some
> EGO rolls.)

Who did the telepathy there? I mean, didn't the Emperor say that?

> >I was thinking some sort of Precog... he *knew* that the rebels were on
> >Hoth.
>
> No Conscious Control?

Naw, he was far to positive once he heard the news. Luke has NCC Precog.

> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>
> Setting aside the question of damage, I think it's important to build in a
> mechanic which explains why Jedi are the only ones to use the things in
> combat. The Star Wars game has a nice one, basing lightsaber combat on a
> Force skill. Maybe it's Based on ECV as well.

Mayyybe. Or maybe it's a convention of the genre?

> Yeah, I know I've got a bee in my bonnet at the moment about BOECV. It
> works nicely for a lot of Force stuff. Of course, the Force should also
> apply to stuff that has no ECV at all; remember Luke & the training remote.
> Combat Sense or Spatial Awareness might be a reasonable Force power.

Did the last part already.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:17:04 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, Apr 27, 1999 at 04:12:45PM -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> > > Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> > > 18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
>
> > Dare I say, I think this is too low... unless compensated with
> > various OCV/DCV Levels.
>
> It will. But, he isn't that fast, I mean, Han could fast draw on him and
> Obi Wan was holding him off quite well.
>
Uhm, not to be too sarcastic, but that's like saying:He's not so good
- -- even Jackie Chan (Bruce Lee,Chuck Norris) could hit him!

Han and Obi are among the best in the galaxy. If Vader can outmatch
them, he's *good*. I'd give him DEX 24, and some seriou CSL.

>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:11:05 +0200
From: Henrik Giese <henrik.giese@lgp.se>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster

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DANGER! NEW TO THE LIST! DANGER!

At 12:01 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 12:40 PM 4/27/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>RUST MONSTER
>>
>>Rust Monster Powers:
>>30 Metal to Rust Elemental Control: 30 Point Pool
>>45 1 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major,
>> Cumulative (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2)
>>20 2 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major,
>> Cumulative (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2)
>
> When I saw this one coming down the proverbial pike, I wondered how the
>"rusting your armor" ability would be worked.
> Do you suppose a Drain (with large Recovery time) or Dispel (with
>Cumulative cobbled into it) versus Armor would work here?
>
Use: Drain (any power based on a metal foci, +1/4)

/Henrik

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DANGER! NEW TO THE LIST! DANGER!


At 12:01 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
 >At 12:40 PM 4/27/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
 >>RUST MONSTER
 >>
 >>Rust Monster Powers:
 >>30 Metal to Rust Elemental Control: 30 Point Pool
 >>45 1 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major, 
 >> Cumulative (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2)
 >>20 2 - Metal to Rust: Transformation Attack: 2d6, Major, 
 >> Cumulative (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2)
 >
 >   When I saw this one coming down the proverbial pike, I wondered how the
 >"rusting your armor" ability would be worked.
 >   Do you suppose a Drain (with large Recovery time) or Dispel (with
 >Cumulative cobbled into it) versus Armor would work here?
 >
 Use: Drain (any power based on a metal foci, +1/4)


/Henrik


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Lizard wrote:

> > > > Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
> > > > 18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
> >
> > > Dare I say, I think this is too low... unless compensated with
> > > various OCV/DCV Levels.
> >
> > It will. But, he isn't that fast, I mean, Han could fast draw on him and
> > Obi Wan was holding him off quite well.
> >
> Uhm, not to be too sarcastic, but that's like saying:He's not so good
> -- even Jackie Chan (Bruce Lee,Chuck Norris) could hit him!
>
> Han and Obi are among the best in the galaxy. If Vader can outmatch
> them, he's *good*. I'd give him DEX 24, and some seriou CSL.

Yeah, I realize that don't make sense. Still, he doesn't *look* that
fast. Problem is, he just doesn't carve up any 'normal' troops.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

Me and my big mouth. Gimme a day or two to consolidate what we've got and
I'll repost the rough.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:21:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Lizard wrote:
> My take on lightsabres, and why only Jedi use them:
> 3d6 NND Killing (GM's option to permit, +2) defense is another
> lightsabre or a force field or hardened armor. OAF (Lightsabre), Side
> Effects:2d6 KA on self when you miss an attakc roll in a 'real' combat
> situation. (The idea is that the blade is weightless, so you are very
> likely to overswing if you don't contact what you expected to contact)

Um. Since we never saw /anyone/ hack themselves up with a lightsaber, I'm
not so sure the Side Effects are in order - especially since we /did/ see
missed attacks in the films. Also, technically, the way you have the
lightsaber written up, me just holding another saber will let me ignore
the damage. If you purchase it as an HKA, you've already accounted for
the fact that it can be parried.

As for why only the Jedi use them - it's really the same reason that
people don't use swords nowadays. A blaster lets you kill from quite a
long ways away, and unless you have Force training, you don't get the
other nice benefits of LS use like what you mention next:

> A lightsabre can also be used for missile deflection, don't forget.

It's not an inherent quality of the saber, though - it's the Force moving
through the weilder. The light saber is just the most convenient thing to
parry with since the blade is basically indestructible.

I'd say that the Force might well give you some combat skill levels - Luke
had barely any training and he was able to fight quite effectively with
Vader. (Then again, as has been mentioned, Vader might not have /that/
high of a skill...)

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:29:53 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

At 04:15 PM 4/27/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>> > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
>> >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
>>
>> So it's based on ECV & he has Mind Scan, maybe? Mind Scan would make a lot
>> of sense - he can sense Luke's presence on a planet, Obi-Wan's presence on
>> the Death Star, etc. (It might only work on Jedi & Force users, though.)
>
>Yeah, this is looking like the way to go with the power. Maybe I should
>just give him the damn VPP and be done with it...

What's wrong with a VPP? The Force is exactly what VPP's are
for. It is a big bag of raw power that adepts can learn to put
their own uses. You might want to note that 'new' powers
require training, but this should be true of any VPP. Just
give him the VPP and list the sort of powers he is known to use
in the text.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:31:01 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

At 04:19 PM 4/27/99 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Lizard wrote:
>
>> > > > Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
>> > > > 18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
>> >
>> > > Dare I say, I think this is too low... unless compensated with
>> > > various OCV/DCV Levels.
>> >
>> > It will. But, he isn't that fast, I mean, Han could fast draw on him and
>> > Obi Wan was holding him off quite well.
>> >
>> Uhm, not to be too sarcastic, but that's like saying:He's not so good
>> -- even Jackie Chan (Bruce Lee,Chuck Norris) could hit him!
>>
>> Han and Obi are among the best in the galaxy. If Vader can outmatch
>> them, he's *good*. I'd give him DEX 24, and some seriou CSL.
>
>Yeah, I realize that don't make sense. Still, he doesn't *look* that
>fast. Problem is, he just doesn't carve up any 'normal' troops.

David Prowse is slow. Vader is fast. But he's so damn good, he
can afford economy of motion. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:28:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:

> >Yeah, this is looking like the way to go with the power. Maybe I should
> >just give him the damn VPP and be done with it...
>
> What's wrong with a VPP? The Force is exactly what VPP's are
> for. It is a big bag of raw power that adepts can learn to put
> their own uses. You might want to note that 'new' powers
> require training, but this should be true of any VPP. Just
> give him the VPP and list the sort of powers he is known to use
> in the text.

Nothing, it's just that I don't want to toss in an VP and take the 'easy
way out'. And I will list specific powers in the text.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:

> David Prowse is slow. Vader is fast. But he's so damn good, he
> can afford economy of motion. :-)

There is that.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:31:38 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

> > >Yeah, this is looking like the way to go with the power. Maybe I should
> > >just give him the damn VPP and be done with it...
> >
> > What's wrong with a VPP? The Force is exactly what VPP's are
> > for. It is a big bag of raw power that adepts can learn to put
> > their own uses. You might want to note that 'new' powers
> > require training, but this should be true of any VPP. Just
> > give him the VPP and list the sort of powers he is known to use
> > in the text.
>
> Nothing, it's just that I don't want to toss in an VP and take the 'easy
> way out'. And I will list specific powers in the text.

Please do. That's my BIG problem with published VPPs - I really wish
when the author gives a character a VPP they would list some basic
power mechanics they would expect to see (even better, the author's
view of the *COMBAT* powers the character would normally use in the
VPP).

DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:31:46 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

At 04:15 PM 4/27/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>> Don't forget Telepathy: "There is... a sister!" And that Armor surely
>> provides some resistant defenses. Depending how you'd define the Emperor's
>> Force lightning stuff, Vader appears to have higher defenses (rED? Power
>> Defense?) than Luke (though of course he took a lot of BODY and made some
>> EGO rolls.)
>
>Who did the telepathy there? I mean, didn't the Emperor say that?
>

You're right. (Oh, the shame, misattributing a Star Wars quote.) If you're
sticking purely to what Vader did, as opposed to what he might be
reasonably supposed to be capable of, I can't think of him reading any minds.

>> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>>
>> Setting aside the question of damage, I think it's important to build in a
>> mechanic which explains why Jedi are the only ones to use the things in
>> combat. The Star Wars game has a nice one, basing lightsaber combat on a
>> Force skill. Maybe it's Based on ECV as well.
>
>Mayyybe. Or maybe it's a convention of the genre?
>

Lizard's NND: Defense is Force defense works reasonably well to enforce
this, too. A GM could make it work as a simple genre convention, but I'd be
more pleased with a lightsaber skill mechanic which treated with some
consistency why only Jedi use them (Han solo's noncombat use aside) and why
they can do such cool stuff with them (Missile Deflection, hitting unseen
targets, etc.)

>> Yeah, I know I've got a bee in my bonnet at the moment about BOECV. It
>> works nicely for a lot of Force stuff. Of course, the Force should also
>> apply to stuff that has no ECV at all; remember Luke & the training remote.
>> Combat Sense or Spatial Awareness might be a reasonable Force power.
>
>Did the last part already.
>

Glad to hear it. The more I think about it, the more Spatial Awareness
seems like a key Force ability. It seems to fit in with Yoda's description
of the Force's basic nature.

The real difficulty translating Force stuff into Hero is that the Force
unifies the mental & spiritual with the physical. Hero has mechanics for
doing each, but not a single mechanic to do both. A lot of ground can be
covered quite nicely, though, by doing as much as possible with Mental
Awareness & Spatial Awareness.

- - Bill Svitavsky

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:11:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: I'm outta here

Hey all.

It's been fun, but the end of the semester and a summer of traveling
chaos is upon me. I'll be gone from the list for at least a few weeks,
maybe more. Don't have any arguments about Linked while I'm gone.

-Tim Gilberg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:39:40 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: (next)

At 07:10 PM 4/27/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: CHAR: (next)
>
>Next up -
>
>Shambling Mound and Darth Vader (trying to have him ready for the Phantom
>Menace release).

How about Shambling Mound *vs* Darth Vader? ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:16:08 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAR: (next)

At 12:39 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 07:10 PM 4/27/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>>Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>>Subject: Re: CHAR: (next)
>>
>>Next up -
>>
>>Shambling Mound and Darth Vader (trying to have him ready for the Phantom
>>Menace release).
>
> How about Shambling Mound *vs* Darth Vader? ;-]

Well, despite his metal armor &life support apparatus, Vader seems to have
trounced the rust monster easily enough. That was the busiest run on a
single topic I've seen here in a long time.

Bill Svitavsky

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:30:40 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)

>> Han and Obi are among the best in the galaxy. If Vader can outmatch
>> them, he's *good*. I'd give him DEX 24, and some seriou CSL.
>
>Yeah, I realize that don't make sense. Still, he doesn't *look* that
>fast. Problem is, he just doesn't carve up any 'normal' troops.

Part of that is movies, he's wearing all that crap but I would give him not
DEX, he's not fast, just give him lots of levels in martial arts, he is so
damn good... well like Joe Dimaggio, he didnt make spectacular catches very
often, he just was always at the right place at the right time, you just
seemed to ... hit it to him...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:37:31 -0700
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)

> Speaking of rust monsters, as a child (in the early 1970's) I
> had a set of plastic monsters which included a creature which
> looked exactly like the Monster Manual's illustration of the
> rust monster. I'm sure the rust monster must have been created
> by a DM (Gygax?) who had the same set of toys on hand, and
> decided to use this weird looking creature as a miniature.

The story I heard was that those same little plastic monsters were used as
'figurines' in early D&D games. Of course, to do this someone had to write
it up in game terms (once they invented a suitable explanation for what it
was). Eventually, these writeups made it into the monster manual -- and the
artist simply copied the little plastic monster!

I believe that some of the other plastic monsters in the set also made it
into the monster manual. In fact I'd guess that the dinosaurs that used to
be common in D&D were also inspired by the ready availability of plastic
toys.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:57:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote:

> > Speaking of rust monsters, as a child (in the early 1970's) I
> > had a set of plastic monsters which included a creature which
> > looked exactly like the Monster Manual's illustration of the
> > rust monster. I'm sure the rust monster must have been created
> > by a DM (Gygax?) who had the same set of toys on hand, and
> > decided to use this weird looking creature as a miniature.
>
> The story I heard was that those same little plastic monsters were used as
> 'figurines' in early D&D games. Of course, to do this someone had to write
> it up in game terms (once they invented a suitable explanation for what it
> was). Eventually, these writeups made it into the monster manual -- and the
> artist simply copied the little plastic monster!
>
> I believe that some of the other plastic monsters in the set also made it
> into the monster manual. In fact I'd guess that the dinosaurs that used to
> be common in D&D were also inspired by the ready availability of plastic
> toys.

I remember my set had something that looked like a bulette...

- --Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* "To be or not to be: that is the question, whether 'tis *
* nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of *
* outrageous fortune." *
* *
* ANAGRAM: "In one of the Bard's best-thought-of *
* tragedies, our insistent hero, Hamlet, queries on two *
* fronts about how life turns rotten." *
*************************************************************

------------------------------

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*****************************

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