Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 296
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 10:29 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #296
champ-l-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 296
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
RE: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
RE: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: Darth Vader
RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
Re: Darth Vader
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: Darth Vader
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:28:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
At 07:57 PM 4/27/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
>
>> Tunneling (Only through metal), might be another power to
>> consider.
>
>The Transformation Attack would do that too I think.
I think there's something to the Tunneling, though. The Transformation
would enable Tunneling, but Tunneling with the "rust the metal" SFX would
enable the RM to travel more quickly and more efficiently.
>> And for all those rules sticklers out there, LS: Can digest metal,
>> or LS: Immune to Poison could be handy (after all, if I knew I was going
>> to be in a dungeon with a Rust Monster, I'd have a sack of tin coins and
>> iron spikes coated with injested poison... in fact, I'd start a business
>> as an exterminator!).
>
>But, if the monster eats 'rust' instead of normal food, it shopuldn't get
>the LS. I'd give the LS to a creature that can feed on normal food *and*
>rust.
For a being that eats rust instead of "normal" food, I'd be willing to
give the LS with a Physical Limitation alongside.
>> > 18 Smell Metal: Detect: Metal, Sense, Ranged, 14-
>> Might seem redundant, but you might want to add "Limitation: Based
>> on Sense Group Smell instead of Sense Group Special, 0 points."
>
>maybe. I called it 'smell metal' but it might be a different sense than
>just 'msell'.
It would be a different sense, but I think what's being suggested here
is that it would go into the Smell Sense Group (which can be done with
Detect as a matter of voluntary definition).
On the other hand, now that I look at it in isolation, why is it 14-?
Wouldn't it just equal the RM's PER Roll? Or does this have extra
"plusses" for some reason?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:37:46 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
At 08:02 PM 4/27/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
>> > 30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
>> Sticklers note that the presence attack is usually boosted by 'Extreme
>> Reputation', 'Displays Powers', and '(Incredibly) Violent Action'
>
>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with this.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:41:22 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
At 08:03 PM 4/27/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
>> > > > Telekinetic Choke: NND (note: didn't he do this to a guy on
>> > > >another Star Destroyer? Over a video link?)
>> > >
>> > > He did, but the link was merely present. He can do it at range
>> > > and without LOS.
>> >
>> > Uhm... any suggestions for *that*?
>>
>> You could make it an Ego Attack (Does Body) - use Mind Scan to get the
>> lock (i.e. figure out where the guy is) and then the Force to crush his
>> throat. This might require Concentration, since we never see Darth doing
>> it in combat.
>
>Wow... that works really well, too. Is this a go with most people?
It works for me. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote:
> > I believe that some of the other plastic monsters in the set also made it
> > into the monster manual. In fact I'd guess that the dinosaurs that used to
> > be common in D&D were also inspired by the ready availability of plastic
> > toys.
>
> I remember my set had something that looked like a bulette...
>
> --Dennis
I had that one too, and I remember seeing the Rust Monster, but I never
saw a full set. Were there any other memorable ones?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:56:23 -0400
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> The problem is that plate armor (DEF 7-8) should rust just as easy as mail
> (DEF 6). Now, you could make it an NND (DEF: Not made of metal), that
> Does BODY (a +2 Advantage), but at that point you are paying a base 45
> points a die for the power... a cost far exceeding it use.
But one die (or even one pip) is really all you need, since a single point of damage
to a Focus will destroy one of its powers, and most FH armor/weapons are only one
power (Armor or HKA).
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:04:18 -0700
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>> It will. But, he isn't that fast, I mean, Han could fast draw on him and
>> Obi Wan was holding him off quite well.
>>
>Uhm, not to be too sarcastic, but that's like saying:He's not so good
>-- even Jackie Chan (Bruce Lee,Chuck Norris) could hit him!
>
>Han and Obi are among the best in the galaxy. If Vader can outmatch
>them, he's *good*. I'd give him DEX 24, and some seriou CSL.
>
>>
>>
It strikes me that by Star wars Episode 3, Obi Wan might not be a great
swordsman, he had been living the live of a hermit as Ben Kenobi for many
years, it had probably been many years since he had used his lightsaber.
Obi seems to be living the late part of the life cycle of the martial
artist, living in seclusion mastering the spiritual side of the art while
his combat skill atrophy (and of course wating for the proper pupil to come
along).
Max Callahan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:04:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Okay, you've convinced me... expect Rust Monster 2.0 soon.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
raise the skull-and-crossbones, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:28:08 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rust Monster
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Lance Dyas wrote:
>
> > Arrrrgh, I knew it, indignity upon indignity... AD+D silliness creeping into
> > Hero, Arrrrghh
> > Next you will model the old cast and forget spellcraft system Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
>
> Nope, not me. Besides, that's easy. Everything has charges that take a
> full day to reocver (or 8 hours of sleep).
>
And you forgot the number of charges on a given spell being inverse to its total
points
(it isnt as easy as you imply)
Drat am I a sucker or what ;(
Lance
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:28:21 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@actonline.com.au>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
> >
> Setting aside the question of damage, I think it's important to build in a
> mechanic which explains why Jedi are the only ones to use the things in
> combat. The Star Wars game has a nice one, basing lightsaber combat on a
> Force skill. Maybe it's Based on ECV as well.
I dont know if its a question of CANT use one as more of WONT use one.
The light saber is known as the weapon of the Jedi. And they all got
hunted down and killed by the imperial forces. Major disincentive
number one.
Swords are balanced, have a certain amount of weight and inertia and
hence can be controlled by anybody who knows how to swing a pool cue.
Not well I will grant you, but the heft is there. A light saber is a
handle with a very efficent cutting device coming out of it which makes
it very easy to lose a foot or something. Major disincentive number
two.
Finally, and probarly the main reason, consider the environment. Every
man and his companion who you might want to use a light saber on is
carrying a blaster. And unless you have the drop on the opposition and
are in real close, they will pull out their blaster and put big holes in
you. Yes, the light saber can deflect blaster bolts. But unless you
are REALLY lucky, or a Jedi, you are going to swing and miss. End
result the same. Major disincentive number three.
So its a case of just use the blaster. Its easier.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:30:22 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
DARTH VADER
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
30 STR 20 15- 1600kg; 6d6
18 DEX 24 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
23 CON 26 14-
13 BODY 6 12-
20 INT 10 13- PER Roll 13-
20 EGO 20 13- ECV: 7
30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
6 COM -2 10-
8 PD 2 Total: PD / PDr
7 ED 2 Total: ED / EDr
4 SPD 12 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
9 REC 0
46 END 0
40 STUN 0
Total Characteristics Cost: 140
This was the first set of stats to be proposed. And you know what? I believe
its by far the best that Ive seen. Theres a horridly intollerable mechanic
built into the very HEART of the HERO system, and you all seem to just accept
it blindly without question. Yes, I am refering to Mega-Dex Characters. You
all seem to have no problem with boosting a characters Dex way way above
levels that fit the characters concept, just for the purpose of combat. Its
totally rediculace. And to accept it is even worse.
With that said, ive got a few other things about the stats too. First, he is
largly human, and would have the Normal human Maxima. Thats another thing
HERO gamers seem to just overlook. So, none of his stats would be over 20
naturaly.
30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the robotic
suit. Hed have like 15
18 DEX I dont think this is that bad, really.
23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an invilid.
Agian, the suit.
13 BODY Very good.
20 INT Also very good, though this would make him as
smart as Einstein
20 EGO Very good. If there was a stat that would be over 20,
this is it.
30 PRE Ehhhh. Id give him 18 or if I had to 20. Than add a
bonus for the suit.
6 COM Good for out of suit. Ill get back to this though.
8 PD 2
7 ED 2
4 SPD 12
Darth Vader is alive for 1 reason only. A BIG SUIT. This suit provides extra
strength, a fairly high armor rating, points of Con, and possably some Dex.
Darth Vader is an invilid. Hes a tattered human held togather by robotics,
and on top of that, hes an old man.
As for powers, Darth Vader doesnt just use "the force". Theres a reason he
has the title of "Lord of Sith". Its because he uses a form of dark "magic"
that was developed by the race called Sith. So, any powers you wanna give him
Im all for. As long as you dont go giving him 45 Dex or superleap or
something.
Darth Vader cant even RUN. He can walk at a barely increased speed, but lacks
the motor skills or interface with his cybernetic required to mave rapidly.
He cant keep the Pace in a fight versus Luke ( who is a highly
unskilled,untrained teenager ) so he has to revert to using TK.
Fighting skills: Darth Vader is a Dirty Infighter. He is not a skilled as Obi
Wan (whp is also an old man), Obi Wan chooses to be beaten and become one
with the "Force". Obi just lowers his weapon and takes the hit. Darth can
barely beat Luke, who is a child with no training at fighting art WHAT SOEVER.
Basically, make a psionic (force user) Human, who is a cripple with
phenominal mental powers, than build him a Powersuit to augment the stuff you
feel needs to be rediculacly high.
Basically, I feel that these stats fit into most peoples CHAMPS games very
well. But, thats not a good thing, IMO. Ive had enough of the 35 Dex 900 lb.
Bricks, and the hands down standard provedure of boosting certian stats and
forgetting about others for strictly combat reasons.
Maybe 5th edition will have an alternate rulesset for OCV and DCV, and wont
require people to scarifice character elements for combat ones. heheh.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:53:12 -0400
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
At 07:30 AM 4/28/99 -0400, Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>This was the first set of stats to be proposed. And you know what? I believe
>its by far the best that Ive seen. Theres a horridly intollerable mechanic
>built into the very HEART of the HERO system, and you all seem to just
accept
>it blindly without question. Yes, I am refering to Mega-Dex Characters. You
>all seem to have no problem with boosting a characters Dex way way above
>levels that fit the characters concept, just for the purpose of combat. Its
>totally rediculace. And to accept it is even worse.
>
Bravo! Thank you!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:32:42 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
No, it was Vader who said it. I just watched RotJ recently, and remember it rather clearly.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Svitavsky [SMTP:nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us]
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 April, 1999 16:32
> To: Michael Surbrook
> Cc: Champions Mailing List
> Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>
> At 04:15 PM 4/27/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >
> >> Don't forget Telepathy: "There is... a sister!" And that Armor surely
> >> provides some resistant defenses. Depending how you'd define the Emperor's
> >> Force lightning stuff, Vader appears to have higher defenses (rED? Power
> >> Defense?) than Luke (though of course he took a lot of BODY and made some
> >> EGO rolls.)
> >
> >Who did the telepathy there? I mean, didn't the Emperor say that?
> >
>
> You're right. (Oh, the shame, misattributing a Star Wars quote.) If you're
> sticking purely to what Vader did, as opposed to what he might be
> reasonably supposed to be capable of, I can't think of him reading any minds.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:17:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
> This was the first set of stats to be proposed. And you know what? I believe
> its by far the best that Ive seen. Theres a horridly intollerable mechanic
> built into the very HEART of the HERO system, and you all seem to just accept
> it blindly without question. Yes, I am refering to Mega-Dex Characters. You
> all seem to have no problem with boosting a characters Dex way way above
> levels that fit the characters concept, just for the purpose of combat. Its
> totally rediculace. And to accept it is even worse.
When I design characters (especially adaptions of fictional characters) I
try to base the DEX on a number of factors. I have handed out a 30 DEX
before (Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan), I even handed out a 40 DEX once (Perfect
Cell), OTOH, many of the D&D critters I've uploaded lately have hed DEXs
around 15. (and I even uploaded a 9 DEX character once). So, DEX can be
an arms race (witness many published superheroes) but it also depends
onthe game. There are many high-DEX (and by high I mean 30 or better)
characters in (say) a Pre-Crisis DC campaign. So, a high DEX isn't a
direct sign of Power-Gaming, although it can be a sign of poor character
design / concept.
> With that said, ive got a few other things about the stats too. First, he is
> largly human, and would have the Normal human Maxima. Thats another thing
> HERO gamers seem to just overlook. So, none of his stats would be over 20
> naturaly.
Actually, Vader is said to be "more machine than human" (Obi Wan - RotJ)
meaning that you can probably ignore stat maxima in many areas. He is
also a Jedi knight, which means that his EGO is probably 20 and more
likely, better. NCM does not mean you can't* have a stat over 20, just
htat it is very expensive.
> 30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the robotic
> suit. Hed have like 15
See above for why I disagree. Also, see my previous post about how he
strangles a rebel officer with one hand. Also, even if he has a 15
naturally, he virtually lives in his suit, so it's not a focus anymore and
it inegral to his body.
> 18 DEX I dont think this is that bad, really.
> 23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an invilid.
> Agian, the suit.
Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive stat
bonuses based onthe suit... what do others think?
> 13 BODY Very good.
Actually, it might be a 15..
> 20 INT Also very good, though this would make him as
> smart as Einstein
Nope. Einsiein has a 10 INT. It's just that Einstien has Physics on a
18- and takes *days* to work on a problem, just getting massive "Extra
Time" bonuses. And, I agree, the 20 INT is too high. Vader is not that
fast a thinker. Reed Richards is a 30+ INT becuase he can make descisions
(and figure out problems) virutally instantly).
> 20 EGO Very good. If there was a stat that would be over 20,
> this is it.
I'm thinking 23 myself.
> 30 PRE Ehhhh. Id give him 18 or if I had to 20. Than add a
> bonus for the suit.
Well, the suit is his PRE. Thequestons is one of 'how intergral is the
suit to Vader?' If he never takes it off, then there is no foci bonus.
> 6 COM Good for out of suit. Ill get back to this though.
> 8 PD 2
> 7 ED 2
> 4 SPD 12
>
> Darth Vader is alive for 1 reason only. A BIG SUIT. This suit provides extra
> strength, a fairly high armor rating, points of Con, and possably some Dex.
> Darth Vader is an invilid. Hes a tattered human held togather by robotics,
> and on top of that, hes an old man.
Well... based on the ages of Obi Wan and Luke, amd doing a little comon
sense figuring, Vader is at minimum 40, more like 50 (which makes Obi Wan
70-80). But, Obi Wan looks to be quite adept even for a 70 year old man.
So age many not be a factor. Look at the Emperor. He's antiquated (and
loosk the same in the Phantom Menace trailers), so how old is he, really?
> As for powers, Darth Vader doesnt just use "the force". Theres a reason he
> has the title of "Lord of Sith". Its because he uses a form of dark "magic"
> that was developed by the race called Sith. So, any powers you wanna give him
> Im all for. As long as you dont go giving him 45 Dex or superleap or
> something.
Ahhh... but is that according to what we see in the films? Is that ever
said? Nope. I'm basing Vader of the *only* canon source I have, the
trilogy. I'm not going to try and use the game or any novels as a
basisfor his powers. Why? becuase Lucas didn't write any of that.
> Darth Vader cant even RUN. He can walk at a barely increased speed, but lacks
> the motor skills or interface with his cybernetic required to mave rapidly.
> He cant keep the Pace in a fight versus Luke ( who is a highly
> unskilled,untrained teenager ) so he has to revert to using TK.
Actually, I think Vader was trying to batter Luke around to capture him.
And they really did go at it hammer and tongs when it came down to it.
Also note that Vader did a interresting leap down the stairs int he duel
in RotJ. He when head over heels andlandedon his feat (yes, that;s the
Force, but it proves he can move).
> Fighting skills: Darth Vader is a Dirty Infighter. He is not a skilled as Obi
> Wan (whp is also an old man), Obi Wan chooses to be beaten and become one
> with the "Force". Obi just lowers his weapon and takes the hit. Darth can
> barely beat Luke, who is a child with no training at fighting art WHAT SOEVER.
I disagree there. The fight between the two looks to be evenly matched in
SW. Obi Wan's reduced DEX is backed up by a buttload of CSLs. Now, vs
Luke, we have to deal with a natural Force magnet ("The Force is strong in
this one") backed up by the fact that Vader is going for capture. When
Vader decidesthat'snot going to work, he beats the hell out of Luke.
> Basically, make a psionic (force user) Human, who is a cripple with
> phenominal mental powers, than build him a Powersuit to augment the stuff you
> feel needs to be rediculacly high.
Actually, I am, but I'm incoporating most of his armored suit's power
right into his characteristics. As the Hero book says, it's not a foci if
he never takes it off or looses it.
> Basically, I feel that these stats fit into most peoples CHAMPS games very
> well. But, thats not a good thing, IMO. Ive had enough of the 35 Dex 900 lb.
> Bricks, and the hands down standard provedure of boosting certian stats and
> forgetting about others for strictly combat reasons.
Well, I've never seen a 35 DEX 900 lbs brick. OTOH, if you canlife 50
tons, I doubt weighing 900 lbs will slow you down very much.
> Maybe 5th edition will have an alternate rulesset for OCV and DCV, and wont
> require people to scarifice character elements for combat ones. heheh.
I can't say.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:24:05 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
At 03:25 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Ben Brown wrote:
>
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote:
>> > I believe that some of the other plastic monsters in the set also made it
>> > into the monster manual. In fact I'd guess that the dinosaurs that
used to
>> > be common in D&D were also inspired by the ready availability of plastic
>> > toys.
>>
>> I remember my set had something that looked like a bulette...
>>
>> --Dennis
>
>
>I had that one too, and I remember seeing the Rust Monster, but I never
>saw a full set. Were there any other memorable ones?
>
I recall a humanoid (bipedal) dragon with flamelike projections near its
nostrils, and an evil-looking armadillo-like thing. A couple of people have
mentioned one resembling the D&D bullette. There were others, too, but it's
been a long time.
Speaking of D&D monster origins, does anybody have any idea where the
multi-legged lizard basilisk came from? As far as I know, the traditional
name basilisk is synonymous with cockatrice, which matches the description
of the D&D cockatrice. I'm half-wondering if there might have been a
multi-legged lizard in that plastic monster set.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:42:14 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
>>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
>>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
>>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
>
> It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with this.
The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with this...a
disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand, should
have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:45:17 -0500
From: Alex Rojas <rojasa@uthscsa.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
> Finally, and probarly the main reason, consider the environment. Every
>man and his companion who you might want to use a light saber on is
>carrying a blaster. And unless you have the drop on the opposition and
>are in real close, they will pull out their blaster and put big holes in
>you. Yes, the light saber can deflect blaster bolts. But unless you
>are REALLY lucky, or a Jedi, you are going to swing and miss. End
>result the same. Major disincentive number three.
>
> So its a case of just use the blaster. Its easier.
>--
>Rick Holding
I'd have to disagree a little on this point. Everyone is the Star Wars
galaxy seems to have a depth perception problem. Nobody could hit anything
with a blaster if the target was more than 30 feet away.
In SW, when they came upon the dead Jawas, they said the blast points were
"too accurate for Sand People", implying that Stormtroopers are good shots.
But we saw later in the movie how bad the Stormtroopers where at hitting
anything. And the only time the good guys hit anything, was when the
Stormtroopers were clumped together, and hard to miss.
In RotJ, the Stormtroopers couldn't hit the slow moving Ewoks. They had to
use an area effect weapon from the AT-ATs
I do agree deflecting shots would require Jedi training, but I don't agree
that you would be dead meat if someone pulled a blaster on you :)
- --Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:49:48 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
This is probably why GURPS has an optional combat rule, "Imperial
Stormtrooper Academy Marksmanship," or something like that. The gist of it
is that on the first round of any ranged combat, the enemy will always miss
their intended target.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Rojas [SMTP:rojasa@uthscsa.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, 28 April, 1999 9:45
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>
> >Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>
> > Finally, and probarly the main reason, consider the environment.
> Every
> >man and his companion who you might want to use a light saber on is
> >carrying a blaster. And unless you have the drop on the opposition and
> >are in real close, they will pull out their blaster and put big holes in
> >you. Yes, the light saber can deflect blaster bolts. But unless you
> >are REALLY lucky, or a Jedi, you are going to swing and miss. End
> >result the same. Major disincentive number three.
> >
> > So its a case of just use the blaster. Its easier.
> >--
> >Rick Holding
>
> I'd have to disagree a little on this point. Everyone is the Star Wars
> galaxy seems to have a depth perception problem. Nobody could hit
> anything
> with a blaster if the target was more than 30 feet away.
>
> In SW, when they came upon the dead Jawas, they said the blast points were
> "too accurate for Sand People", implying that Stormtroopers are good
> shots.
> But we saw later in the movie how bad the Stormtroopers where at hitting
> anything. And the only time the good guys hit anything, was when the
> Stormtroopers were clumped together, and hard to miss.
>
> In RotJ, the Stormtroopers couldn't hit the slow moving Ewoks. They had
> to
> use an area effect weapon from the AT-ATs
>
> I do agree deflecting shots would require Jedi training, but I don't agree
> that you would be dead meat if someone pulled a blaster on you :)
>
> --Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:48:15 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
>> 30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the
robotic
>> suit. Hed have like 15
>
>See above for why I disagree. Also, see my previous post about how he
>strangles a rebel officer with one hand. Also, even if he has a 15
>naturally, he virtually lives in his suit, so it's not a focus anymore
and
>it inegral to his body.
>
>> 23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an
invilid.
>> Agian, the suit.
>
>Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive
stat
>bonuses based on the suit... what do others think?
It's been a while since I watched the trilogy, but *can* Vader take off
the suit without dying? Even an IIF has to be removable without harming
the focus' owner.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:57:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Rust Monster (origins)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> Speaking of D&D monster origins, does anybody have any idea where the
> multi-legged lizard basilisk came from? As far as I know, the traditional
> name basilisk is synonymous with cockatrice, which matches the description
> of the D&D cockatrice. I'm half-wondering if there might have been a
> multi-legged lizard in that plastic monster set.
Yes, I have found a period (ie. pre-1700's) descriptions of the baslisk as
an eight-legged creature. The baslisk mutates over time, starting out as
a snake and becoming a lizard of sorts. With time, the cockatrice becomes
a seperate creature as well, evolving into a lizard/chicken.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:57:12 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
At 09:48 AM 4/28/99 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>>> 30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the
>robotic
>>> suit. Hed have like 15
>>
>>See above for why I disagree. Also, see my previous post about how he
>>strangles a rebel officer with one hand. Also, even if he has a 15
>>naturally, he virtually lives in his suit, so it's not a focus anymore
>and
>>it inegral to his body.
>>
>>> 23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an
>invilid.
>>> Agian, the suit.
>>
>>Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive
>stat
>>bonuses based on the suit... what do others think?
>
>It's been a while since I watched the trilogy, but *can* Vader take off
>the suit without dying? Even an IIF has to be removable without harming
>the focus' owner.
>
It doesn't appear so. In fact, when he tells Luke to take off his helmet in
RotJ, Luke objects "But you'll die!" He does have the helmet off in that
one Empire scene, but he's in his big pod thing which is presumably
designed for such maintenance. I'd say Vader is a cyborg, so his
characteristics should be bought straight, not through a focus.
This reminds me of a PC in one of my early campaigns who insisted on buying
a battlesuit that provided life support as a focus. After villains stole
the suit & he spent an adventure hooked to life support equipment in a
hospital while his teammates retrieved it, he begged to rewrite the
character.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:58:57 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
At 01:09 PM 4/28/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
>
>Actually, Vader is said to be "more machine than human" (Obi Wan - RotJ)
>meaning that you can probably ignore stat maxima in many areas. He is
>also a Jedi knight, which means that his EGO is probably 20 and more
>likely, better. NCM does not mean you can't* have a stat over 20, just
>htat it is very expensive.
>
>> 30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the robotic
>> suit. Hed have like 15
>
>See above for why I disagree. Also, see my previous post about how he
>strangles a rebel officer with one hand. Also, even if he has a 15
>naturally, he virtually lives in his suit, so it's not a focus anymore and
>it inegral to his body.
>
>> 18 DEX I dont think this is that bad, really.
>> 23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an invilid.
>> Agian, the suit.
>
>Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive stat
>bonuses based onthe suit... what do others think?
For what I can tell -- and the above only reinforces this impression--
there is no suit. Vader is a cyborg.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Alex Rojas wrote:
> I'd have to disagree a little on this point. Everyone is the Star Wars
> galaxy seems to have a depth perception problem. Nobody could hit anything
> with a blaster if the target was more than 30 feet away.
This is a problem with the conventions of film and fiction.
> In SW, when they came upon the dead Jawas, they said the blast points were
> "too accurate for Sand People", implying that Stormtroopers are good shots.
> But we saw later in the movie how bad the Stormtroopers where at hitting
> anything. And the only time the good guys hit anything, was when the
> Stormtroopers were clumped together, and hard to miss.
Okay, the problem is very simple. Somoene is writing the book/story. It
has been pointed out that technically, Cyclops (of the X-Man) shouldn't be
all that physcially tough, *but* he never gets hit by anything, so it's
hard to judge how tough/fast he is. Why doesn't he get hit? Becuase he's
really just a normal human with eye blasts. The guys who can take the
hits get hit. We see this al the time in the manga Silent Mobius, where
Kiddy, the cyborg, get the crap kicked out of her *all* the time. Since
she is the one person who can really survive internal injuries and a
broken arm with minimal down time, she's the one to get hit/hurt.
In Star Wrs, stormtroopers are deadly accurate when the need to be, ie
when shooting at everyone else. Looks how many dead rebels ther are int
he hallway of the Blockade Runner compared to dead (or downed)
stormtroopers. It's something like 12 to 2 and one of the downed
'troopers was the first guy through the door (how do you miss him?). The
heoes, since they can't be hit (and thus killed) aren't hit, while they
hit (and drop) everyone one they usually shoot at.
> In RotJ, the Stormtroopers couldn't hit the slow moving Ewoks. They had to
> use an area effect weapon from the AT-ATs
Yes, well, the Stormtrooper vs Ewoks fight was so laughable it was
painful. *Somebody* was going for market appeal there. I liked the
original idea (or rumored idea), which was to use Wookies.
> I do agree deflecting shots would require Jedi training, but I don't agree
> that you would be dead meat if someone pulled a blaster on you :)
Well, yeah, you should be.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:17:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >>Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive
> >stat
> >>bonuses based on the suit... what do others think?
> >
> >It's been a while since I watched the trilogy, but *can* Vader take off
> >the suit without dying? Even an IIF has to be removable without harming
> >the focus' owner.
>
> It doesn't appear so. In fact, when he tells Luke to take off his helmet in
> RotJ, Luke objects "But you'll die!" He does have the helmet off in that
> one Empire scene, but he's in his big pod thing which is presumably
> designed for such maintenance. I'd say Vader is a cyborg, so his
> characteristics should be bought straight, not through a focus.
Actually, when in his mediation chamber, he is using a breathing tube
(AFAIK). So, no, I'm betting he can't take off the suit.
> This reminds me of a PC in one of my early campaigns who insisted on buying
> a battlesuit that provided life support as a focus. After villains stole
> the suit & he spent an adventure hooked to life support equipment in a
> hospital while his teammates retrieved it, he begged to rewrite the
> character.
heh, a nice object lesson.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:29:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
> >>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
> >>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
> >>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
> >>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
> >
> > It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with this.
>
> The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with this...a
> disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand, should
> have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
Disads can certainly give you bonuses. Examples:
NND 'Stench' attack - shouldn't affect someone with the Phys Lim 'No Sense
of Smell'
Images vs. Sight won't do a thing to a blind man.
Psych Lims have an effect on Mind Control - if you have Psych Lim: Total -
Cannot endanger an innocent life, then Mind Master is going to have a lot
harder time getting oyu to do something that might hurt someone...he'd be
better off using his power on Collateral Damage Man.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
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