Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 297
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:53 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #297
champ-l-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 297
In this issue:
Re: Darth Vader
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
CHAMPS: 2009
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Teleporting body parts
Re: Teleporting body parts
Re: Teleporting body parts
Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: Teleporting body parts
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: Teleporting body parts
Re: Teleporting body parts
Re: Darth Vader
Re: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Re: Teleporting body parts
Re: Darth Vader
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
CHAMPS: 09 House Rule #1
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
CHAMPS: PC rules vs. NPC rules
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
RE: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
RE: Status & Reputation
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Re: Darth Vader
Re: CHAMPS: 2009
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:33:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> Actually, when in his mediation chamber, he is using a breathing tube
> (AFAIK). So, no, I'm betting he can't take off the suit.
Also check out when Luke cuts off Vader's hand - there's wires and such at
the wrist, not flesh and bone. The 'suit' is, as far as I can tell, not
removable.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:35:27 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>Disads can certainly give you bonuses. Examples:
True: however, given the fact that there's no form of Reputation that costs
points, too many people use the disad just to get the Presence bonus. A lot
like "Psych Lim: Hates being Mind Controlled"...yeah, it's a disad, but in
most cases the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:35:30 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: CHAMPS: 2009
Ok Guys, I got one here that I think some of you may be interested in. Maybe
not.
As most of you can probably quess from the types of questions and possably
the comments i have. My background is fairly diverse, including Ad&d (yek),
GURPS (ehh), Legend of the 5 Rings (yum), D6 (ehh), Star Wars (uh-huh), In
Nomine (double yum), BGC and other Fuzionites (ehh), Heavy Gear (ehh), Jovian
Chronicles (triple yum), Shadowrun 2nd & 3rd Ed.(ehh & ick), BattleTech
(ewe), and the entire gammot of WoD (yum).
Ive just bought the BBB -deluxe- 2 1/2 weeks ago. After reading through The
Manual, as i call it, I realized that i would need to set up a frameworked
world to learn the details of the game. For example, when I read over the EC
rules. Lets just say I saw how much potential was there for me to jump in to
fast and totally mess my own understanding of how it SHOULD work up forever.
Well, Heres what Im gonna attempt to do. Im going to create a entirely Comic
Universe, and than learn more about the "finer" details of power constructing
and such as the worlds population grows.
i know that most of you are pretty knowledgable about what works and what
doesnt, and I know for a fact that Im amoung the 5 least skilled Power
Constructers here. I could use all the help you guys see fit to give :)
Heres what i have set down so far as guidlines.
General Description: a campaign where parahumans began emerging in the form
of both natural genetic mutation (read:marvel) and as the result of a top
secret and extensive genome-eugenics project (read:gen13). there is no
"magick" at all, although "powers" have been noted to emerge from intense
conditioning (read:yoga,zen,psy). There is no public knowledge of any alien
existance (read:xfiles,darkskies,WILDcats).
Importance of PC's: the first set of pc's represent members of the first
generation of of "para's". They will be active in world development.
Campaign Tone:
Morality: some cross-over between G & E.
Realism: neutral - realistic
Outlook: sometimes goodguys lose
Seriousness: some ironic humor - morality questioned
Continuity: entirely serial
Physical World:
No magic SFX, no FTL w/o ship, all characters start with Norm Hum Max. (can
buy it off). no "STOP" or "O-" powers at all.
Character Guidlines:
starting points: 75 /100 points
disad points: 75 / 100 ( restricted by GM approval and continuity)
no points for Characteristic Maxim.: Yes (err, yes means no points)
free tech?: no
power levels: begining maximum
attack powers- 8 - 10 15 or so
defense powers- 10 - 15 20 - 30 (i think)
skill rolls- 15 20 or so
Campaign Rules:
Hit Location: no
Knockdown: knockback
Longterm END: nope
Limited Push: yes
Ok, what do you guys think of this? What type of technology do you guys think
we in the RL will be sporting in 10 years? Dont feel too restricted, cause im
thinking of things like brain/comp interface experiments, clones, nanotech
experiments, and the like. lets hear the stuff. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:01 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
Looks ambitious. :)
>Physical World:
>No magic SFX, no FTL w/o ship, all characters start with Norm Hum Max. (can
>buy it off).
Requiring people to buy off the 20 point Normal Characteristic Maxima
before they can start buying high stats is a little unbalanced from a
cost-benefit point of view -- characters with high stats are encouraged to
have LOTS of high stats, since they already paid 20 points just for the
privilege.
I would suggest either mandating the disad for everyone and requiring
people with high stats to pay double cost, or else allowing characters
whose concepts involve higher stats to not take the disad.
> no "STOP" or "O-" powers at all.
Good call, if you are just starting out. Don't feel obligated to restrict
your NPCs in the same way though. :)
>Character Guidlines:
>starting points: 75 /100 points
>disad points: 75 / 100 ( restricted by GM approval and continuity)
So characters will be 150 - 200 points total? That's probably a good amount
for people new to Hero: enough points to buy cool stuff, but small enough
that they are not overwhelmed. Just make sure they understand that they
will be starting with fairly low powered heroes.
>power levels: begining maximum
>attack powers- 8 - 10 15 or so
>defense powers- 10 - 15 20 - 30 (i think)
>skill rolls- 15 20 or so
I would also suggest a SPD guideline; if people start designing characters
with SPD 5-6, those normals with SPD 3 are going to feel left out.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:55:33 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Teleporting body parts
One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target's=
body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to be=
able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he stuc=
k
Continuous on the RKA.
I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it? Assuming it is allowed,=
do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:06:12 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
>One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target's
>body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
>pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to be
>able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he stuck
>Continuous on the RKA.
>I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
>Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it?
Not in a superhero game...not in any game where death was uncommon. In a
high-powered Dark Champions game, for example, it would probably be OK.
>Assuming it is allowed,
>do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
Well, since Armor and Forcefields presumably won't stop the attack, it
should be NND (defense: hardened defense that teleport won't work through,
or not having internal organs, or maybe having Teleport yourself and Diving
for Cover to follow your missing organ).
Also, if the attack is really just teleporting something out and then
holding it, it should cost END to start and to stop, and should not stop if
he is knocked out or Stunned. That would make it Uncontrolled (stopped by
anyone with Teleport or quick surgery), 0 END (except for startup). So
you're looking at:
1d6 RKA, Continuous, Uncontrolled, 0 END, NND, Does Body: 75 Active
That attack on its own sets off my "Advantage Happy Syndrome" alarm, and is
way too abusive for most games.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:07:13 -0400
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
At 10:55 AM 4/28/99 -0400, David Stallard wrote:
>One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target's
>body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
>pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to be
>able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he stuck
>Continuous on the RKA.
>
>I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
>Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it? Assuming it is allowed,
>do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
I don't have a problem with the mechanics of the power. It's perfectly
reasonable to define an RKA with a special effect: Teleport. I don't think
it needs to be Continuous. That causes damage to keep occuring on each
phase, when in fact, it's a single wound.
Actually, if it's vital organs you want, you probably need to do it as
a Body Drain. That way, the target's lung doesn't just "heal".
Now, as to whether a "hero" should have this power ... Well, that's a
question for you and your group to decide. Other heroes in the team should
decided for themselves whether they wish to be associated with such a
killer.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:06:29 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
In a message dated 4/28/99 9:41:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
writes:
> >>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
> >>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people... *but*
> >>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
> >>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
> >
> > It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with
this.
>
>
> The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with this...a
> disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand, should
> have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
Yeah... but according to the book it does. So, how do you handle this? I
think that i have heard that the Reputation disad is being re-worked in the
5th ED; but as I have not actually seen it, cannot say for certain.
how do other GM's handle this in their games?
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:09:10 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
ROTFL depth perception problem, heheheheh
umm In order to suspend my disbelief I always
assumed that the blaster is kind of a waivy
innacurate pulse even an innacurate ranged
weapon has its own advantages.. particularly against
clumps of enemies.
Alex Rojas wrote:
> >Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >> >And (here I go...) any suggestions for a lightsaber?
>
> > Finally, and probarly the main reason, consider the environment. Every
> >man and his companion who you might want to use a light saber on is
> >carrying a blaster. And unless you have the drop on the opposition and
> >are in real close, they will pull out their blaster and put big holes in
> >you. Yes, the light saber can deflect blaster bolts. But unless you
> >are REALLY lucky, or a Jedi, you are going to swing and miss. End
> >result the same. Major disincentive number three.
> >
> > So its a case of just use the blaster. Its easier.
> >--
> >Rick Holding
>
> I'd have to disagree a little on this point. Everyone is the Star Wars
> galaxy seems to have a depth perception problem. Nobody could hit anything
> with a blaster if the target was more than 30 feet away.
>
> In SW, when they came upon the dead Jawas, they said the blast points were
> "too accurate for Sand People", implying that Stormtroopers are good shots.
> But we saw later in the movie how bad the Stormtroopers where at hitting
> anything. And the only time the good guys hit anything, was when the
> Stormtroopers were clumped together, and hard to miss.
>
> In RotJ, the Stormtroopers couldn't hit the slow moving Ewoks. They had to
> use an area effect weapon from the AT-ATs
>
> I do agree deflecting shots would require Jedi training, but I don't agree
> that you would be dead meat if someone pulled a blaster on you :)
>
> --Alex
------------------------------
Date:
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> on Wed, 28 Apr 1999
| I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
| Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it?
No.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:13:12 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Tisk Tisk a disdvantage that aint no disad doesnt get you any points
Hates being mind controlled is like hates taking body damage... sorry
no points and no advantage... unless he buys it as one ( a bonus to md
versus mind control).
Geoff Speare wrote:
> >Disads can certainly give you bonuses. Examples:
>
> True: however, given the fact that there's no form of Reputation that costs
> points, too many people use the disad just to get the Presence bonus. A lot
> like "Psych Lim: Hates being Mind Controlled"...yeah, it's a disad, but in
> most cases the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
>
> Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:16:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
> Darth Vader is alive for 1 reason only. A BIG SUIT. This suit provides extra
> strength, a fairly high armor rating, points of Con, and possably some Dex.
> Darth Vader is an invilid. Hes a tattered human held togather by robotics,
> and on top of that, hes an old man.
Actually, the reason Vader is so angry, and such a nasty "tool"
for the Dark Side, is because when he first began to give in to the Dark
Side, and tried to heal himself after a battle, he couldn't...
Acts such as healing weren't in the Dark Side's nature.
And so, not being able to do what he once was able to do, being
wounded (and essentially, feeling "betrayed" by the "good" Force), his
anger and malice grew... and with each surgery, each scar, each lost part
of himself, so went his humanity, and in that void the Dark Side
flourished, along with his cruelty, callousness, and evil.
Reminds me of a cartoon I saw one easter when I was a kid about a
farmer who lost his limbs to a machine (like the Tin Man, only he hunted
rabbits).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 99 04:47:27 PDT
From: "Richard O'Marro" <hbcraft@impulsedata.net>
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
- ----------
> One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target=
's
> body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
> pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to =
be
> able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he =
stuck
> Continuous on the RKA.
>
> I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
> Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it? Assuming it is allowe=
d,
> do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
>
>
My opinion on this, don't allow it. My reasoning, no rules based mumbo =
jumbo, just the fact that you said that you don't like this power. Obviou=
sly you'd feel uncomfortable having it in your game world/ergo it does =
not fit with the campaign format.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 99 04:47:27 PDT
From: "Richard O'Marro" <hbcraft@impulsedata.net>
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
- ----------
> One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target=
's
> body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
> pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to =
be
> able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he =
stuck
> Continuous on the RKA.
>
> I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
> Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it? Assuming it is allowe=
d,
> do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
>
>
My opinion on this, don't allow it. My reasoning, no rules based mumbo =
jumbo, just the fact that you said that you don't like this power. Obviou=
sly you'd feel uncomfortable having it in your game world/ergo it does =
not fit with the campaign format.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:17:47 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> At 09:48 AM 4/28/99 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
> >>> 30 STR Darth isnt this strong naturally. Its the
> >robotic
> >>> suit. Hed have like 15
> >>
> >>See above for why I disagree. Also, see my previous post about how he
> >>strangles a rebel officer with one hand. Also, even if he has a 15
> >>naturally, he virtually lives in his suit, so it's not a focus anymore
> >and
> >>it inegral to his body.
> >>
> >>> 23 CON Way way way way way way to high. Hes an
> >invilid.
> >>> Agian, the suit.
> >>
> >>Does he come out of the suit? Very rarely. I could give him massive
> >stat
> >>bonuses based on the suit... what do others think?
> >
> >It's been a while since I watched the trilogy, but *can* Vader take off
> >the suit without dying? Even an IIF has to be removable without harming
> >the focus' owner.
> >
>
> It doesn't appear so. In fact, when he tells Luke to take off his helmet in
> RotJ, Luke objects "But you'll die!" He does have the helmet off in that
> one Empire scene, but he's in his big pod thing which is presumably
> designed for such maintenance. I'd say Vader is a cyborg, so his
> characteristics should be bought straight, not through a focus.
>
> This reminds me of a PC in one of my early campaigns who insisted on buying
> a battlesuit that provided life support as a focus. After villains stole
> the suit & he spent an adventure hooked to life support equipment in a
> hospital while his teammates retrieved it, he begged to rewrite the
> character.
>
> - Bill Svitavsky
Ouch thats mean, life support should only be needed under certain specific
condition
unless he also bought dependent on life support as a disadvantage you screwed
that
player badly IMHO
Lance Dyas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:21:22 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
At 11:06 AM 4/28/99 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 4/28/99 9:41:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
>writes:
>
>> >>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
>> >>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people...
*but*
>> >>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
>> >>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
>> >
>> > It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with
>this.
>>
>>
>> The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with this...a
>> disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand,
should
>> have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
>
>Yeah... but according to the book it does. So, how do you handle this? I
>think that i have heard that the Reputation disad is being re-worked in the
>5th ED; but as I have not actually seen it, cannot say for certain.
>
>how do other GM's handle this in their games?
>
I really liked the Recognition and Reputation rolls in the first edition
Golden Age of Champions. I used them quite successfully in my longest
running Champions game. They helped define the public image of each hero,
and on occasion guided the heroes' behavior. It gave a nice traditional
superhero feel to the game, as the PC's frequently became involved in
public service projects to enhance their acceptance in the community.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:23:09 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
In a message dated 4/28/99 10:48:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
writes:
> Good call, if you are just starting out. Don't feel obligated to restrict
> your NPCs in the same way though. :)
this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
non-players.
allow me to repeat. this is wrong.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 4/28/99 10:48:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
> writes:
>
> > Good call, if you are just starting out. Don't feel obligated to restrict
> > your NPCs in the same way though. :)
>
> this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
> non-players.
>
> allow me to repeat. this is wrong.
No, I disagree. NPC, especially villains, should be allowed to go beyond
the capabilites of the PCs. How else do you get super-villains (or other
characters) that can hold off a whole team of heroes?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:26:57 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Teleporting body parts
In a message dated 4/28/99 10:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
DBStallard@compuserve.com writes:
> One of my players wants to be able to temporarily teleport out a target's
> body part, for instance a lung. He figures that this would cause great
> pain, so he's defined it as a Ranged Killing Attack. He also wants to be
> able to hold the body part in his "phantom world" for a while, so he stuck
> Continuous on the RKA.
>
> I don't like this power...it's too deadly for a hero PC (even one named
> Homicide -- I kid you not). Would you allow it? Assuming it is allowed,
> do you think Continuous RKA is the right way to define this?
As the GM, you have the right to tell your player that this does not fit with
the
tone and feel of your campaign. [neither is teleporting rebar into his body
and
keeping it there.] just say "no".
i certainly could be a continuous killing attack (would it have to be bought
uncontrolled first?)
on a side note: if you allow it in, you should give at least one of the
regular
bad guys a very similar power (and uncontrolled, continuous killing attack).
when the heroes start to act like the bad guys, then the bad guys should
either get wrose or better. and better really never works for them.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:28:50 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
At 10:17 AM 4/28/99 -0500, Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
[snip]
>>
>> This reminds me of a PC in one of my early campaigns who insisted on buying
>> a battlesuit that provided life support as a focus. After villains stole
>> the suit & he spent an adventure hooked to life support equipment in a
>> hospital while his teammates retrieved it, he begged to rewrite the
>> character.
>>
>> - Bill Svitavsky
>
>Ouch thats mean, life support should only be needed under certain specific
>condition
>unless he also bought dependent on life support as a disadvantage you screwed
>that
>player badly IMHO
>
I didn't mean the power Life Support, I meant it in the general sense
(hence no capitals). It was constructed as a Dependence on the suit.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:32:18 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> 20 INT Also very good, though this would make him as
> > smart as Einstein
>
> Nope. Einsiein has a 10 INT. It's just that Einstien has Physics on a
> 18- and takes *days* to work on a problem, just getting massive "Extra
> Time" bonuses. And, I agree, the 20 INT is too high. Vader is not that
> fast a thinker. Reed Richards is a 30+ INT becuase he can make descisions
> (and figure out problems) virutally instantly).
Einsteins Inventive Genius normally gets blopped into his intelligence, he invented
whole hog much of the support Math and the Physics without experimental basis it is
totally flabbergasting, Put the points where you want to but he should come off as
having a wierd mind. Based on what Ive heard the man had an estimated real world iq
of 180.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:34:20 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: CHAMPS: 09 House Rule #1
Its been less than an hour since the first post of a 2009 message, and
already weve been able to work out a nice little house rule!
Characters start with Normal Human Maxima disadvantage and recieve no points
for it. If a character wishes to buy off the disadvantage, they must do so
for each individual stat.
Example: A character who wants 40 STR for some reason can go about it two
ways. They can either pay 20 points to remove the Human Maxima:STR, than pay
30 more points to have STR of 40.
Or they can buy theyre STR up to 20 for 10 points, than up to STR 40 for 40
more points.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:37:08 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
>this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
>non-players.
I smell a good discussion. :)
There should be two sets of building rules for players and non-players.
Player characters, by their nature, are less predictable (from the
viewpoint of the GM); also, they need to be balanced with other player
characters so that the players don't feel that they are being shortchanged
in their roleplay. (Doesn't mean that point totals or power levels need to
be balanced, just that players should get roughly equal game time.)
Non-players, on the other hand, are controlled by the GM: their reason for
existence is to challenge the player characters and entertain the players.
Non-players can have horribly abusive powers, as long as they are not used
in improper ways (show up the players, take out GM's RL aggression on
players, etc.).
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:39:25 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: CHAMPS: PC rules vs. NPC rules
>this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
>non-players.
I smell a good discussion. :)
There should be two sets of building rules for players and non-players.
Player characters, by their nature, are less predictable (from the
viewpoint of the GM); also, they need to be balanced with other player
characters so that the players don't feel that they are being shortchanged
in their roleplay. (Doesn't mean that point totals or power levels need to
be balanced, just that players should get roughly equal game time.)
Non-players, on the other hand, are controlled by the GM: their reason for
existence is to challenge the player characters and entertain the players.
Non-players can have horribly abusive powers, as long as they are not used
in improper ways (show up the players, take out GM's RL aggression on
players, etc.).
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:41:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 4/28/99 10:48:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
> writes:
>
> > Good call, if you are just starting out. Don't feel obligated to restrict
> > your NPCs in the same way though. :)
>
> this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
> non-players.
And why, exactly, is that wrong?
First of all, you /already/ have two sets of building rules for PCs and
NPCs. The PCs get a set number of points to create their character, but
the GM does not need to abide by that restriction when making the NPCs.
(If he did, then single villains like Mechanon and Dr. Destroyer would be
impossible to create, and everyone would always fight teams. Oh, and also
all of the NPCs would be at the PCs power level, including Joe the
security guard and Rita Mae the plumber's apprentice.)
Also, many of the STOP or Mag. Glass powers are marked because they can be
abused, and make things very difficult for the GM if he isn't prepared to
deal with them. An example would be Telepathy, which can derail many
mystery-type plots right off. But, a villain having Telepathy is not
nearly as big of a problem for the GM, because the GM is /controlling/ the
villain.
And, of course, some McGuffins or plot elements require stuff that should
not be in the hands of a player. Take this power for example: it's a mind
control power that saps the targets will and makes them susceptible to the
commands of the user. Furthermore, each of those targets 're-broadcasts'
and amplifies the mental power - so the more people fall under the spell,
the more powerful it gets, the range is increased, etc...that would be
Mind Control and EGO Drain with a boatload of advantages (and several
stop signs) - plus, it's an inappropriate power for a hero to have, but
for a villain? It's perfect.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:12:24 -0700
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:30:22 EDT Akirazeta@aol.com writes:
> DARTH VADER
>
> Im all for. As long as you dont go giving him 45 Dex or superleap or
Luke has it.
>
> Darth Vader cant even RUN.
No, we've never *seen* him run. he's never been in a situation where he
had to...
He can walk at a barely increased speed,
When he's got a purpose, he does have a mean stroll.
> but lacks
> the motor skills or interface with his cybernetic required to mave
> rapidly.
Uuuh, Return of the Jedi, his lightsaber battle with Luke. He was moving
pretty rapidly there.
> He cant keep the Pace in a fight versus Luke ( who is a highly
> unskilled,untrained teenager ) so he has to revert to using TK.
Luke had raw talent that got loose from him for a moment.
> Fighting skills: Darth Vader is a Dirty Infighter. He is not a
> skilled as Obi
> Wan (whp is also an old man), Obi Wan chooses to be beaten and
> become one
> with the "Force". Obi just lowers his weapon and takes the hit.
> Darth can
> barely beat Luke, who is a child with no training at fighting art
> WHAT SOEVER.
Once again, look at that battle. He wasn't trying to kill Luke, but when
he got mad, he took the boy to the cleaners before Luke rallied. So I'd
say there's a fair amount of skill going on there...
> Basically, make a psionic (force user) Human, who is a cripple with
> phenominal mental powers, than build him a Powersuit to augment the
> stuff you
> feel needs to be rediculacly high.
I agree.
|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ] ghostwalker@ifr-inc.org
CO/4th Batt., The Horsemen, Black Horse Regiment
*---===( )===---*
Black Horse Webpage: http://www.ifr-inc.org/staffpages/tb.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:34:39 -0700
From: "David W. Salmon" <dwsalmon@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
Actually, Dark Champions sheds some light on this subject. It says that if
your reputation roll is made then you can get bonuses to your presence.
Thereby combining presence and reputation which does make a bit of sense. I
don't have the book with me so I am not sure of the specifics. I will go
look it up though.
Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org [mailto:owner-champ-l@sysabend.org]On
Behalf Of Bill Svitavsky
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 9:21 AM
To: AndMat3@aol.com; champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: Reputation [was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
At 11:06 AM 4/28/99 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 4/28/99 9:41:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
>writes:
>
>> >>Well, he walks into the Blockade Runner and Stormtrooper *and* Rebel
>> >>Troops shut up and get out of his way. He tends to scare people...
*but*
>> >>I might drop this, as some of the Death Star officers had enough of a
>> >>spine to talk back to him... at least a 20 then.
>> >
>> > It seems to me that his Reputation should have something to do with
>this.
>>
>>
>> The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with this...a
>> disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand,
should
>> have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
>
>Yeah... but according to the book it does. So, how do you handle this? I
>think that i have heard that the Reputation disad is being re-worked in the
>5th ED; but as I have not actually seen it, cannot say for certain.
>
>how do other GM's handle this in their games?
>
I really liked the Recognition and Reputation rolls in the first edition
Golden Age of Champions. I used them quite successfully in my longest
running Champions game. They helped define the public image of each hero,
and on occasion guided the heroes' behavior. It gave a nice traditional
superhero feel to the game, as the PC's frequently became involved in
public service projects to enhance their acceptance in the community.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:40:45 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Status & Reputation
The way that I handle this is with status. I realize that in a supers game,
being the CEO of a multinational hi-tech powersuit corporation is just a
trivial background trait but in my world, status is not so easy to come by.
I have my PC's buy very specific bits of status. Sometimes the status is
official, like a 3pt. Eathereal Mechanics certification or a 1pt. junior
membership in the Alchemist's Guild. Also, I allow reputations in any walk
of life to be bought as status, generally on a scale of about 1 to 10,
however you can go as high as you want.
Off hand, I'd say that anyone in a position of serious power, like a general
or a CEO should have something like 30 or 40 points wrapped up in status.
The six people who run the city in my FH game have about 60 pts. each in
status.
When taking a rep as a disad, it should never, under any circumstances,
result in anyone reacting more favourably towards the PC. However, a rep
disad and a few points of status can work together to define NPC's
reactions.
Later
BRI
] I really liked the Recognition and Reputation rolls in the
] first edition
] Golden Age of Champions. I used them quite successfully in my longest
] running Champions game. They helped define the public image
] of each hero,
] and on occasion guided the heroes' behavior. It gave a nice
] traditional
] superhero feel to the game, as the PC's frequently became involved in
] public service projects to enhance their acceptance in the community.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:34:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
> From: AndMat3@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/28/99 10:48:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
> writes:
>
> > Good call, if you are just starting out. Don't feel obligated to restrict
> > your NPCs in the same way though. :)
>
> this is wrong. it's like having two sets of building rules for players and
> non-players.
>
> allow me to repeat. this is wrong.
>
> andy
>
>
Oh ? So as a GM I'm not allowed to build a master villain that can take on
a whole team of heroes single-handedly because I can't balance her properly
on starting points plus disadvantages ?
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:15 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Darth Vader
Ah OK player screwed himself royally then. Somebody wanted to do the "Iron Man"
thing but over did it by defining the armor in a loseable fashion and complete
dependence. Actually I think the original Iron man could last several days out of
armor before the fragment killed him. He was still quite dependent on the armor,
in the long run
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> At 10:17 AM 4/28/99 -0500, Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >>
> >> This reminds me of a PC in one of my early campaigns who insisted on buying
> >> a battlesuit that provided life support as a focus. After villains stole
> >> the suit & he spent an adventure hooked to life support equipment in a
> >> hospital while his teammates retrieved it, he begged to rewrite the
> >> character.
> >>
> >> - Bill Svitavsky
> >
> >Ouch thats mean, life support should only be needed under certain specific
> >condition
> >unless he also bought dependent on life support as a disadvantage you screwed
> >that
> >player badly IMHO
> >
>
> I didn't mean the power Life Support, I meant it in the general sense
> (hence no capitals). It was constructed as a Dependence on the suit.
>
> - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:49:05 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: 2009
In a message dated 4/28/99 11:41:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jeffj@io.com
writes:
> And why, exactly, is that wrong?
>
> First of all, you /already/ have two sets of building rules for PCs and
> NPCs. The PCs get a set number of points to create their character, but
> the GM does not need to abide by that restriction when making the NPCs.
> (If he did, then single villains like Mechanon and Dr. Destroyer would be
> impossible to create, and everyone would always fight teams. Oh, and also
> all of the NPCs would be at the PCs power level, including Joe the
> security guard and Rita Mae the plumber's apprentice.)
ok... allow me to re-state this. [note: this is an opinion. not a fact.]
i don't mind that players and non-players have different point values.
i do mind that they don't have access to the same power list.
either something is ok... or it is not. decide and then make the list
available to all.
i'm not looking for people to agree with me. most GM's do not; but
that's ok. this is an opinion and therefore, open to debate. when you
disallow a power for a PC and then allow it for an NPC the player (or
maybe its just me) sees that and say "ah! the GM is cheating."
as for Plot Devices... i have come to hate them and attempt to only
use them if i let everyone know that one is in play... normally by stating
in a loud and unmistakeable voice: "This is a plot device... please do not
touch or look at too hard... it might fall apart."
again, that's just an opinion. feel free to disagree. :)
andy
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #297
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:15 AM