Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 302
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 1:10 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #302
champ-l-digest Thursday, April 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 302
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
Pie-In-The-Face Flash
eating and sleeping
Re: That guy had some balls! (Sack of Ball Bearings Power construct)
RE: AE
RE: AE
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
RE: AE
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
RE: AE
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
RE: AE
RE: AE
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
RE: AE
RE: AE
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Recognition & Reputation Comments
Recognition and Reputation Rules
Re: say INT ain't so
Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:05:26 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)]
>> The Reputation Disadvantage shouldn't have anything to do with
this...a
>> disad shouldn't give you a bonus. His reputation, on the other hand,
should
>> have a hell of a lot to do with it. :)
>
>Yeah... but according to the book it does. So, how do you handle this? I
>think that i have heard that the Reputation disad is being re-worked in
the
>5th ED; but as I have not actually seen it, cannot say for certain.
I've heard that as well, but whether it'll be in the finished book is
another question.
One thing that might work: give Vader about a 20-25 PRE, then buy another
10 points or so with the "Offense Only" limitation and define the extra
PRE as his reputation.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:05:26 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>This is probably the real heart of the matter: the question isn't "why
>doesn't everyone use lightsabers", the question is "why DO Jedi use
them?"
>The answer seems to be linked to Obi-Wan's description of the lightsaber
as
>a "more elegant" weapon than the blaster. Blasters are easy, and the
choice
>of weapon of those who WANT to fight. Lightsabers are difficult to use
>*effectively* (in the same way that a rapier is less effective than a
modern
>firearm)
It could easily be that the Jedi had a de-facto monopoly of lightsaber
training, since they could do so much more with them (Force tricks) than
a non-Jedi. Once the Jedi get wiped out, there goes most if not all of
your qualified teachers.
There could have been non-Jedi who used lightsabers, but when the Jedi
were killed off they would have had two options: either put the
lightsaber away or be targetted by the Jedi-killer teams.
Leah
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:10:51 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>It could easily be that the Jedi had a de-facto monopoly of lightsaber
>training, since they could do so much more with them (Force tricks) than
>a non-Jedi. Once the Jedi get wiped out, there goes most if not all of
>your qualified teachers.
While I'm sure that anyone could learn to cut off arms with a lightsaber,
deflecting blaster shots with the consistency of a Jedi Knight is not
something within the realm of unaided human ability.
I don't think many Jedi would be keen on lightsabers if it weren't for that
deflection trick -- at any rate, those who were would not be around long
enough to form a tradition. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:12:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Flash 2d6
Effects groups Sight and Taste/Smell +20
NND: Flash Defense is ineffective. The Defense is a Force Wall, Force
Field, frictionless surface surrounding one's body, having extra eyes (or
no head or face at all), or hard eye coverings that can be taken off. The
character may spend Segments "clearing away" the sticky masses, which
should take some time (+1); 4 Charges (-1), Range based on STR (-1/4),
Must target head hit location (-?)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:26:14 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: eating and sleeping
Hi,
Although rarely a factor in supers games, I'm about to lean on my PC's with
a little food and sleep deprivation. Has anyone dealt with this in a heroic
game?
I was thinking I would give a penalty to all PC rolls equal to the number of
days without sleep squared. A successful meditation roll modified by this
penalty allows the PC to function normally for the rest of the day.
For food and water, I 'm not too sure. Any thoughts?
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
bwawrow@fmco.com
(905) 212 - 3055
2*3*3*37 - The prime factorization of the beast
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:07:58 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: That guy had some balls! (Sack of Ball Bearings Power construct)
At 09:54 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Beren wrote:
><<>b) AoE: Radius or Cone
>> Should it be Radius or Cone? I could see it being either.
>
> I'd make it AE:Any.>>
>
>Would it be appropriate to put something in about it being limited
>byexisting walls? If you're in a room that has a low dividing wall or some
>other solid object, you're not going to be able to cover the entire area -
>at least not easily.
I think this may be covered already by the nature of AE; that particular
point has been the topic of some debate in the past.
Basically, if you think a Limitation (probably on the AE only) would be
appropriate, then it would be.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:54:23 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: AE
I am sure someone has spent more time accurately determining the exact
volume of each area effect attack but I just wondered if anyone else
thought that the size of Area Effect: Any was far too small? Especially
compared to something like Radius (which is titanic), Any is pathetic, it
is by far the smallest of any of the area effect variants except One Hex
(and on a power up to 15 active cost it IS the same size as one hex). I
have been giving people 1 hex per 5 active points and it doesn't appear to
have unbalanced anything, just wondered what the list thought of this.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:59:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: AE
Speaking of such things, we are using the idea of AoE: Megahex (+3/4) in
one of my games. Basically, it affects a center hex and all six hexes
that connect to it. Works well for certain 'small-sized' explosions and
attacks.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an
infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even
considering if there is a man on base. - Dave Barry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:00:54 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (rough)
>> > Missile Deflection: Up to Energy Attacks (seen in ESB)
>
>> When he reflected Solo's blaster shots, did they fly off, or were they
>> absorbed? I seem to recall them just disappearing into his hand...
>
> I've been thinking about this and I think that missile deflection is
>the wrong mechanic for what happened. He has missile deflection with
>the light saber but what he did on the cloud city was somewhat
>different. Han shot at Darth who raised his hands and "caught" the
>blasts. What I would use would be force wall with gestures. If you
>call the blasters 2D6 KE, a 13 defence force wall, energy only, would do
>the trick nicely. It would need to be adjusted for visiblity details
>and other factors but it would be the best way of doing what he did.
You could model this just with a lot of extra DCV only in the right
circumstances, which would explain why light sabers were used against jedi
instead of guns. If a well trained Jedi is almost impossible to hit with
blasters (modelled by bouncing them off a hand or such) then you will find
another way.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:00:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: AE
At 07:54 AM 4/29/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>I am sure someone has spent more time accurately determining the exact
>volume of each area effect attack but I just wondered if anyone else
>thought that the size of Area Effect: Any was far too small? Especially
>compared to something like Radius (which is titanic), Any is pathetic, it
>is by far the smallest of any of the area effect variants except One Hex
>(and on a power up to 15 active cost it IS the same size as one hex). I
>have been giving people 1 hex per 5 active points and it doesn't appear to
>have unbalanced anything, just wondered what the list thought of this.
I suppose it's not a bad idea, especially if it doesn't horribly
unbalance things in practice. In fact, now that you've mentioned it like
this, this change probably should have been in 5th Edition. (It's probably
too late now.)
Remember, of course, that with AE:Any, you can vary the shape of your
area, which you don't get with any other AE.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:02:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
At 10:12 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>Flash 2d6
>Effects groups Sight and Taste/Smell +20
>NND: Flash Defense is ineffective. The Defense is a Force Wall, Force
>Field, frictionless surface surrounding one's body, having extra eyes (or
>no head or face at all), or hard eye coverings that can be taken off. The
>character may spend Segments "clearing away" the sticky masses, which
>should take some time (+1); 4 Charges (-1), Range based on STR (-1/4),
>Must target head hit location (-?)
I think an argument could be made for a pie in the face being a 0 DEF, 1
BODY Entangle that Blocks the Sight Sense Group. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:08:54 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: AE
>Speaking of such things, we are using the idea of AoE: Megahex (+3/4) in
>one of my games. Basically, it affects a center hex and all six hexes
>that connect to it. Works well for certain 'small-sized' explosions and
>attacks.
Woohoo!!! A blast from the past!! back to The Fantasy Trip! :) I always
used radius with a -1 limitation for this (seems to negate the power but
the active cost is higher and with other advantages the limitation does not
equal the advantage of Radius because of the way the math works).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:11:35 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
At 10:12 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>Flash 2d6
>Effects groups Sight and Taste/Smell +20
>NND: Flash Defense is ineffective. The Defense is a Force Wall, Force
>Field, frictionless surface surrounding one's body, having extra eyes (or
>no head or face at all), or hard eye coverings that can be taken off. The
>character may spend Segments "clearing away" the sticky masses, which
>should take some time (+1); 4 Charges (-1), Range based on STR (-1/4),
>Must target head hit location (-?)
The requirement to target the head in combat, at -8 OCV, is significant,
but as is often the case, the degree to which this is a hindrance depends
on other things about the character. What's the character's base OCV?
Does he have CSLs that would apply to this attack?
I have often thought there should be a sliding scale for several
Limitations and Disadvantages that base their final value on how
inconvenient they are for the individual character. It's not always easy
to gauge how often something will come up during play, but die roll
probability can at least be estimated.
Psych Lims, for example, are worth +5 points for Strong limitations, which
can be overcome with an EGO Roll. This is true whether the character's EGO
is 8 or 30; the point value of the Disadvantage isn't affected by how
likely the EGO Roll is to succeed.
Requires a Skill Roll is the same way (if it's characteristic-based). RSR
is always worth -1/2, whether the applicable roll is 11- or 16-.
A secondary problem with all this is that it's not easy to make one thing
harder to do than another. I can easy imagine a character with a
psychological "Achilles' heel". Two Psych Lims, neither of them at the
Total level, but one that gives the character enough grief to carry an
inherent -3 to the EGO Roll. Psych Lims do not provide a way to do this.
Characters should be allowed to take additional points for significant EGO
Roll penalties built into the Psych Lim, or to take fewer points for a
Strong Psych Lim with an EGO Roll bonus.
RSR should allow for the possibility that a Power is sufficiently difficult
to use that it carries an inherent Skill Roll penalty, over and above the
existing -1 per 10 Active Points. Actually, there may be a way to do that
already, though I've never seen it used: Apply the usual -1/2 Limitation
to the Power. Purchase the required Skill normally, then buy -1 to the
roll at a cost of -2 Character Points. It almost immediately costs less
than nothing to pay for the required Skill; this negative cost is applied
to the Real Cost of the Power itself.
EXAMPLE: 40 AP Teleport, DEX-based RSR @ -3
Power Cost: 40
Skill Cost: 3 - 6 = -3
Total Cost: 37
Using this Power now carries a total Skill Roll penalty of -7, since the
RSR has a built-in penalty of -1 per 10 AP in the Teleport.
BACK ON TOPIC EXAMPLE: 40 AP Pie-in-the-Face, OCV-based RSR @ -4
Power Cost: 40
Skill Cost: 3 - 8 = -5
Total Cost: 35
Using this Power now carries a total Skill Roll penalty of -8, since the
RSR has a built-in penalty of -1 per 10 AP in the Flash. This is in
keeping with the -8 OCV penalty required for a head shot.
Criticisms?
Damon
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|************* Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs ***************|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.txdirect.net/~griffin |
| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Computers -- Gaming -- All Human Knowledge |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: AE
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >Speaking of such things, we are using the idea of AoE: Megahex (+3/4) in
> >one of my games. Basically, it affects a center hex and all six hexes
> >that connect to it. Works well for certain 'small-sized' explosions and
> >attacks.
>
> Woohoo!!! A blast from the past!! back to The Fantasy Trip! :) I always
Yup, good ole In the Labrynth megahexes...
> used radius with a -1 limitation for this (seems to negate the power but
> the active cost is higher and with other advantages the limitation does not
> equal the advantage of Radius because of the way the math works).
I based this of of the idea that if AoE: One Hex is +1/2 and you can
increase the aarea of an attack by +1/4, then the 'megahex' would be +3/4.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an
infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even
considering if there is a man on base. - Dave Barry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:19:04 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: AE
>>I am sure someone has spent more time accurately determining the exact
>>volume of each area effect attack but I just wondered if anyone else
>>thought that the size of Area Effect: Any was far too small? Especially
>>compared to something like Radius (which is titanic), Any is pathetic, it
>>is by far the smallest of any of the area effect variants except One Hex
>>(and on a power up to 15 active cost it IS the same size as one hex). I
>>have been giving people 1 hex per 5 active points and it doesn't appear to
>>have unbalanced anything, just wondered what the list thought of this.
>
> I suppose it's not a bad idea, especially if it doesn't horribly
>unbalance things in practice. In fact, now that you've mentioned it like
>this, this change probably should have been in 5th Edition. (It's probably
>too late now.)
> Remember, of course, that with AE:Any, you can vary the shape of your
>area, which you don't get with any other AE.
Yeah well I sent a list of my top ten things I hoped would change in the
survey, but I suspect it got stacked with 1298125 others and who knows what
they got out of it. Probably linked and aid will get adjusted and they are
the LEAST of my concerns.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> At 10:12 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> The requirement to target the head in combat, at -8 OCV, is significant,
> but as is often the case, the degree to which this is a hindrance depends
> on other things about the character. What's the character's base OCV?
> Does he have CSLs that would apply to this attack?
He has a DEX of 16, and probally no more than +3 RSL to offset
range penalties with the pie, and no more than +3 OCV combination with the
pie itself and pie throwing levels to ofset location penalties.
Quick math, that's 5 OCV, +3 for pie in the face... that's 8,
with +3 RSR to ofset range penalties.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:22:47 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: AE
At 10:59 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Speaking of such things, we are using the idea of AoE: Megahex (+3/4) in
>one of my games. Basically, it affects a center hex and all six hexes
>that connect to it. Works well for certain 'small-sized' explosions and
>attacks.
If your explosion or other attack is greater than 40 AP, I think you may be
paying too much at +3/4.
What you are describing is AoE:Radius, where the radius is 2"; this is the
size area that would be affected by a 20 AP power with the +1 AoE:Radius
Advantage. Since the radius can be doubled for +1/4, it makes sense that
it could be halved for -1/4. In that case, a 40 AP Power would result in a
2" AoE:Radius, and the Advantage value would be -3/4.
Halve it again, and an 80 AP Power affects the same seven hexes for a +1/2
Advantage.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: AE
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> At 10:59 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >Speaking of such things, we are using the idea of AoE: Megahex (+3/4) in
> >one of my games. Basically, it affects a center hex and all six hexes
> >that connect to it. Works well for certain 'small-sized' explosions and
> >attacks.
>
> If your explosion or other attack is greater than 40 AP, I think you may be
> paying too much at +3/4.
>
> What you are describing is AoE:Radius, where the radius is 2"; this is the
> size area that would be affected by a 20 AP power with the +1 AoE:Radius
> Advantage. Since the radius can be doubled for +1/4, it makes sense that
> it could be halved for -1/4. In that case, a 40 AP Power would result in a
> 2" AoE:Radius, and the Advantage value would be -3/4.
>
> Halve it again, and an 80 AP Power affects the same seven hexes for a +1/2
> Advantage.
Yes, but AoE: One Hex is +1/2. I split the difference between One Hex and
the Full Radius.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an
infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even
considering if there is a man on base. - Dave Barry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:45:23 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
At 11:22 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> He has a DEX of 16, and probally no more than +3 RSL to offset
>range penalties with the pie, and no more than +3 OCV combination with the
>pie itself and pie throwing levels to ofset location penalties.
> Quick math, that's 5 OCV, +3 for pie in the face... that's 8,
>with +3 RSR to ofset range penalties.
A Combat Roll of 8-, with the requirement to target the head at -8?
I dunno, what's the appropriate value for a Limitation that brings your
base chance of success down to 0?
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:54:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> At 11:22 AM 4/29/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> > He has a DEX of 16, and probally no more than +3 RSL to offset
> >range penalties with the pie, and no more than +3 OCV combination with the
> >pie itself and pie throwing levels to ofset location penalties.
> > Quick math, that's 5 OCV, +3 for pie in the face... that's 8,
> >with +3 RSR to ofset range penalties.
> A Combat Roll of 8-, with the requirement to target the head at -8?
> I dunno, what's the appropriate value for a Limitation that brings your
> base chance of success down to 0?
Base OCV of 8... I guess that would mean he would be an effective
OCV of 0.
Let's hope he gets bonuses for suprise. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:01:44 -0400
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
Jason Sullivan wrote:
> Flash 2d6
> Effects groups Sight and Taste/Smell +20
> NND: Flash Defense is ineffective. The Defense is a Force Wall, Force
> Field, frictionless surface surrounding one's body, having extra eyes (or
> no head or face at all), or hard eye coverings that can be taken off. The
> character may spend Segments "clearing away" the sticky masses, which
> should take some time (+1); 4 Charges (-1), Range based on STR (-1/4),
> Must target head hit location (-?)
IMHO, hitting the face is really special effects (and would get no penalty);
at the very most a -1/4 if you consider that the victim could defend
themselves by shielding their head while the rest of the body is uncovered,
but I personally would make it -0. After all, most light-based Flashes already
need to hit the target's eyes.
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:30:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> Jason Sullivan wrote:
<snip>
> > Must target head hit location (-?)
> IMHO, hitting the face is really special effects (and would get no penalty);
> at the very most a -1/4 if you consider that the victim could defend
> themselves by shielding their head while the rest of the body is uncovered,
> need to hit the target's eyes.
> Mathieu
This being the case, I didn't add any "directional" limitations
(must be facing target), which is assumed with Flash.
Though, you did bring up an interesting Linitation that could be
used to simulate this mechanic:
Limitation: Can Be Blocked
I'd still like to make it so that the head had to be targeted,
even if it dosen't work out being "points efficent."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:02:01 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Recognition & Reputation Comments
I typed in the Recognition & Reputation rules as is from GAoC, with a few
minor spelling & grammar corrections. I think they could probably use some
revision, however, to fit into most campaigns.
The most glaring problem is that this system isn't quite compatible with
the Reputation Disadvantage. It can be tough coming up with points as it
is, and players won't like losing one of the less harsh Disads. And unlike
the Reputation Disadvantage, the R&R rules make no provision for starting a
character who's an experienced and well-known hero. I'd be inclined to
simply allow players to choose their initial Recognition and Reputation,
taking into account the character's history, Psych Lims, and such.
Since they come from the Golden Age of Champions, the R&R rules as written
are tailored for heroes of the 1940's. Society has changed, expectations of
heroes have changed, and the media have changed enormously since then, so I
think some changes to the charts are probably needed. I could have left
out all the 1940's examples from the text, but figured I'd leave them in as
a reminder of what these rules were originally designed for.
One problem that came up in the modern-day campaign where I used these
rules was that of newsworthy public appearances by the characters when they
were neither particularly heroic nor objectionable. In our media-saturated
modern world, the press is likely to seek out heroes for comments on just
about anything, report on their lifestyles, or use their images to promote
the city or commercial products. All of this should add to Recognition, but
does nothing for Reputation. Granted, a hero who goes around endorsing
products probably should be a little tarnished, and a sound byte can
express some ideals and hence add reputation, but even the noblest of
heroes will be vulnerable to out-of-context portrayals fairly often. I
can't suggest a rules fix, other than some leniency when comparing
Recognition & Reputation totals. It might just be a good representation of
why our society is more jaded about heroes in general.
Obviously, the media have changed a lot since the 1940's. "Newsworthy act
that is printed" should read as "Newsworthy act that is printed, broadcast,
disseminated over the Internet, etc." - and we probably shouldn't forget
the effect of word of mouth. It might be worth establishing modifiers for
the size of the news report's audience: +0 Recognition for the local paper,
+1 for the national news, -1 for an obscure e-mail list?
I imagine the adjustments for value of saved/destroyed materials should be
adjusted as well, since thousands, millions, and billions mean something
different today than they did in the 1940's. I'm not sure how far I'd
change them, though, since a hero doing thousands of dollars of property
damage is still going to attract attention.
I'm eager to hear others' opinions on this stuff, since after typing all
this up I'm giving serious consideration whether to integrate it into my
current campaign.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:01:05 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Recognition and Reputation Rules
As requested, here it is:
RECOGNITION AND REPUTATION
(From Golden Age of Champions, 1st (1985) ed., by Chris Cloutier)
What makes a Hero a Hero? Simply the fact that people recognize him as a
Hero. Bad publicity and crusades (even by one man) can make a Hero seem
like a Villain or a Villain like a Hero. The media made Joseph Stalin, the
leader of the Soviet Union, out to be "Uncle Joe," a swell guy you wouldn't
mind introducing to your daughter. They ignored or deliberately forgot
about the purge and other questionable acts. (One source estimates that
Stalin killed 10 million of his own people because they disagreed with his
policies and views.) The same thing can happen to Heroes and Villains.
There are two factors involved in determining public awareness of a
character - Recognition and Reputation. Being a Hero means nothing to
anyone if they don't recognize the character as one. Just imagine how you
would feel if no one knew who you were. Everything can have a recognition
value. A man dressed in a blue uniform swinging a nightstick will easily,
but perhaps wrongly, be recognized as a policeman. The names Boy Scouts,
Marines, police, and Mafia are all known. Individuals become celebrities.
Moviestars, Congressional Medal of Honor recipients, politicians, fighter
aces, and Superhero/Supervillains become household words. At first, a
character will be an unknown factor, just another mystery man.
RECOGNITION starts out with a base 8 or less roll on 3d6. This number will
increase as the character becomes more well known to the public. Those
characters who battle in the shadows will not be recognized as quickly and
may often be mistaken for Villains. The following chart shows how
Recognition is earned for various acts. The simple rule is "if it gets into
the news, the character earns Recognition."
- ---------------------------------BEGIN
CHART------------------------------------
RECOGNITION
Did newsworthy act that is printed...........................+1
Publicly saved or caused the loss of
thousands of dollars of equipment,
materials,
etc..................................................................+1
Directly responsible for saving or
killing many normals...................................................+1
Capture of enemy spies which is not
"hushed
up".....................................................................+1
Publicly saved or caused the loss of
millions of dollars of equipment,
materials,
etc...................................................................+2
Directly responsible for saving or
killing prominent citizen(s).......................................+2
Saved TOP SECRET governmental project * ..............+0
Destroyed TOP SECRET governmental project * .......+1
Others (GM Discretion)........................................+0 to +3
* If a Hero saves a project that's TOP SECRET, the
government will "hush it up" in the interest of the
United States Government, and so no one will know
about it. But, on the other hand, if it's destroyed
and there are no plans to continue the same project,
word will "leak out". The GM may secretly keep track
of these points and add them in when the characters
deal with the government again.
- ---------------------------------END
CHART-------------------------------------
These Recognition points are cumulative and should be recorded on the
character sheet. Whenever a character encounters a situation where being
recognized would help, the GM should make a RECOGNITION CHECK. If it is
made, help will usually be rendered, requests usually granted, etc. The
following charts detail this.
- ---------------------------------BEGIN
CHART------------------------------------
TOTAL RECOGNITION POINTS RECOGNITION ROLL
0 8-
1 9-
2 10-
3-4 11-
5-8 12-
9-16 13-
17-32 14-
32-64 15-
65-128 16-
129-256 17-
256-512 18-
513+ 19-
- ---------------------------------END
CHART---------------------------------------
At this point, the Hero or Villain has become a household word and is
immediately recognized. The Recognition Roll is modified whenever the
character is outside of his usual stomping grounds.
- ---------------------------------BEGIN
CHART------------------------------------
LOCATION OF HERO LEVEL AFFECTED
Hero is in home territory -0 levels
Hero is in neighboring territory -1 level
Hero is across state -2 levels
Hero is in another state -3 levels
Hero is across country -4 levels
Hero is in another country -5 levels
- ---------------------------------END
CHART---------------------------------------
REPUTATION is how the general public perceives the character AFTER it has
recognized him. Unlike Recognition, Reputation will fluctuate depending on
what the character does. The names Boy Scouts, police, firemen, and Abraham
Lincoln all have good Reputations. Mafia, Nazi, Benedict Arnold, and Adolf
Hitler all have bad Reputations. Such terms as politicians, soldiers, and
moviestars have mixed Reputations. The higher the Reputation index is, the
more heroic the character is (and the lower it goes, the more mercenary are
the character's methods). All points are cumulative.
- ---------------------------------BEGIN
CHART------------------------------------
REPUTATION
Action Points Awarded
Captured Villains ................................................+1
Allowed Villains to escape....................................-1
Saved or allowed destruction of
public/private property........................................+/-1
If property is in the millions of dollars..............+/-1
If property is in the billions of dollars...............+/-1
Saving normal humans before anything else...+1
Saving normal humans after the situation
is resolved...................................................
..............+0
Endangering human normals................................-1
Killing human normals...........................................-2
If they are rich/famous/prominent.....................+/-1
Solving a major crime when everyone
else is stumped...........................................................+1
Circumnavigate the law to accomplish
objective...................................................................
...-1
- ---------------------------------END
CHART---------------------------------------
Reputation establishes the character - the shock of Recognition is usually
based on the Reputation that has preceded him. Thus, whenever the character
is recognized, his Reputation is immediately known.
Reputation and Recognition totals will change constantly. Recognition will
always increase. This total compared with the Reputation total will
instantly give a feeling of the Hero/Villain. The general public and other
Heroes/police view this comparison as follows: if the Reputation exceeds
the Recognition, the character is a saintly type. Total Code of Honor,
Total Protection of Human Normals, Total Protection of Property from
Damage, and Total Code Against Killing are usual Psychological Limitations.
If the Reputation and Recognition are about the same, the character is a
True-Blue Hero, but sometimes makes mistakes. He recognizes the human value
on life and rescues them first. Codes of Honor, Codes against Killing, and
Protects Human Normals are common Limitations. If Reputation is quite small
as compared to Recognition, but still positive, the character usually
operates on the right side of the law, but is mercenary in nature. Berserks
and "to take the Villain at any cost"-type Psychological Limitations are
common. Finally, if the Reputation ever goes below zero, the character is
recognized as a mass murderer, a tyrant, or insane. "Killer", Berserks, and
"Loves to Destroy Things" are common ailments.
Villains and other nasties view Recognition and Reputation differently. If
Reputation exceeds Recognition, the Villains know hostages, time delayed
bombs, and other mass murder operations will balk the character. If they
are about equal, the same tricks apply, but only if the Hero is sure that
he can stop the incident first. If Recognition exceeds Reputation, the
"so-called" Hero is not above taking them out first. Perhaps a partnership
could be arranged as the Hero could be disillusioned about what true fame
and glory are all about. Maybe a bribe is not out of order. And if a true
Villain meets a character with a negative Reputation, he might shoot first
(to save himself.)
Not all Villains will have negative Reputation. Many Villains have their
own "Code of Honor" which doesn't differ from the Hero's by much.
Non-killers will perform acts compatible with their code. Robbing from the
rich (others) and giving to the poor (us) can be done without blowing up
half of Gothic or Manhattan.
Reputation can act as a Presence Modifier (as detailed in CHAMPIONS). A
weak Presence is one in which the character is unknown or is easily bullied
around. A strong one is as good as action (either high or very low).
Finally, remember that groups can have Reputation and Recognition totals as
well which is the sum total of their individual counterparts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:05:46 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: say INT ain't so
At 10:07 PM 4/28/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> on Wed, 28 Apr 1999
>| With this interpretation, Reed Richards with x points in SC: Relativity
>| Theory would still have a better roll than Albert Einstein with x points in
>| relativity theory. That is, in like conditions, if they each spend the same
>| amount of extra time, Mr. Fantastic always gets a better roll than Al baby.
>
>Mr. Fantastic is a superhero with superhuman scientific ablity.
>
>Albert Einstein is not.
>
>I see no problem, here.
I was using them for the sake of example, Rat. The point is that with a
strict interpretation of INT (as speed of thought), the Hero System models
a slow-thinking genius badly. But with a loose interpretation (reflect IQ
in INT), it models a slow-thinking genius fairly well - so why not just
make a loose interpretation?
I'd rather start an Einstein-like character with inappropriately high PER
rolls and such, then add a few disads, then have to pay a fortune merely to
define the character as a slower thinker.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:06:16 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Pie-In-The-Face Flash
What kind of Circus do you play in heheheheeheh
Jason Sullivan wrote:
> Flash 2d6
> Effects groups Sight and Taste/Smell +20
> NND: Flash Defense is ineffective. The Defense is a Force Wall, Force
> Field, frictionless surface surrounding one's body, having extra eyes (or
> no head or face at all), or hard eye coverings that can be taken off. The
> character may spend Segments "clearing away" the sticky masses, which
> should take some time (+1); 4 Charges (-1), Range based on STR (-1/4),
> Must target head hit location (-?)
ROTFL
fun stuff dude
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #302
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:16 AM