Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 309
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 3:53 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #309
champ-l-digest Monday, May 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 309
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (II)
Re: Another Multipower question
Re: Lord Vader's Powers
Re: Sub/unsub
Darth Vader II?
Re: Another Multipower question
RE: Darth Vader
Email Woes
RE: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Treasure update
Re: Lord Vader's Powers
CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: TK
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
TK (was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?))
Translating Adventures
Palladium Conversion (was: RE: Translating Adventures)
Re: Spock's Brain and Intuition
TK Stuff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:28:19 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (II)
arrogance was the emperors weakness, so much that he didn't even deny to
luke that it was.
"And your faith in your friends is yours!"
I'd say vader wasn't arrogant, Just acurate in his
self- assesments.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (II)
>At 12:05 AM 5/2/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>> Psychological Limitation:
>>
>>[suggestions here?]
>
> Arrogant
> Casual Killer
> Megalomaniac
> Ruthless
> Serves Palpatine and Dark Side
>
> Just some ideas. :-]
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 99 09:07:34
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Another Multipower question
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:02:40 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>According to the BBB, switching a Multipower around is a 0 phase action.
>For something I'm working on, I'd like switching the slots to take a
>half-phase. What sort of limitation (if any) would the list give that?
>Since Extra Time: One Phase is a -1/2, I was thinking of -1/4 -- sound
>fair?
Why not just us Extra Time on the MP (but not the powers)?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 02:55:30 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Lord Vader's Powers
I've had a few days to think about this.
At 02:21 AM 4/29/99 -0500, brian wrote:
>At 12:08 AM 4/29/99 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>> Today's comment is: Vader doesn't act very "Dark Side", IMO. The Dark
>> Side is all about anger and passionate response. Luke is warned that
>> if he acts out of anger it will become harder for him to resist acting
>> when he is angry. Vader, however, doesn't seem to get angry.
>
>"Anger, AGGRESSION, fear ... the Dark Side of the Force are these."
>(emphasis mine). Vader's casual, trivial use of violence, even when it
>doesn't benefit him (killing Captain Antilles at the beginning of STAR WARS,
>for example, thereby destroying any chance of extracting useful information
>from him in better circumstances) is definitely Dark Side level aggression.
>
Captain Antilles didn't know anything useful, and Vader knew it. He killed
Antilles as an example, and because his other option was to order him
killed as his only remaining use was as an example.
>> He does not kill the Admiral because he is angry with his failure, he
>> kills him because he is expendable and it will serve to make other
>> officers afraid of him. Not emotion, just effective management
>> techniques.
>
>His officers are already afraid of him, and he knows it. Being "expendable"
>is not an excuse for discarding something -- killing the Admiral is
>*wasteful* (the Empire only has so many), and waste is not the most
>effective way of handling things. I wouldn't call this effective management,
>except in the Dilbert sense where "management" means exactly the opposite of
>what the Management thinks it does.
>
Killing the Admiral was not wasteful. The Admiral had just failed at an
important task, at least in part because he had balked at the danger of
continued pursuit. Further, the Admiral took full blame for that failure,
and did not seem afraid to do so. Vader killed him in front of his men,
then promoted the Second officer who was staring agast. As a friend said
at that point, "He now OWNS that man!" From then on, the new Admiral looks
as if he expects to be killed for the slightest mistake. Basicly, it's
battered spousal syndrome: The Admiral is so desperate for Vader's approval
that he will do anything he is told without question or thought for his own
safety.
>I think it's a reasonable statement to say that Vader IS angry, but that he
>hides it well (not surprising, considering he's got virtually no human
>method of expressing his emotions).
>
I have seen Vader angry. His body language makes it quite clear when he is
ticked off. But it doesn't happen often, and the only violent response
I've seen was when he smashed his hand down on something.
Anyway, Your Milage May Vary but IMO Vader acts more like an Evil Jedi than
a follower of the Dark Side.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
"do you hear someone laughing megalomaniacally?"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 03:05:57 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Sub/unsub
At 01:05 PM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
>geoff heald wrote:
>>
>> Hello, I got another one of those messages that says someone either tried
>> to add or remove me from this list. Since i'm already here, adding me
>> would be silly and removing me would be against my wishes, so I'm just not
>> gonna reply to that. Did this happen to everyone lese like last time, or
>> is it just me?
>
>I got one to. I just deleted it.
>
>--
>Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
>ICQ #3788510
>
Now I got another one.
Sigh.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Darth Vader II?
Did people get the post of Vader Mark II I sent, I or should I post
it again?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It's not a song about drinking. It's a song about drinking alone."
George Thorogood, about the song "I Drink Alone"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 05:59:56 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Another Multipower question
At 09:07 AM 5/3/1999, qts wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:02:40 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>
>>According to the BBB, switching a Multipower around is a 0 phase action.
>>For something I'm working on, I'd like switching the slots to take a
>>half-phase. What sort of limitation (if any) would the list give that?
>>Since Extra Time: One Phase is a -1/2, I was thinking of -1/4 -- sound
>>fair?
>
>Why not just us Extra Time on the MP (but not the powers)?
That would be my suggestion, except that it's impossible to do in either
HeroMaker or Creation Workshop.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 10:08:50 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: RE: Darth Vader
>Stormtroopers can't hit anything important. Important things are _on_
>camera.
>
>Stormtroopers always wear armor, no matter what, when we can see them.
>
>What does this mean? Stormtroopers do well when they aren't on camera.
>When on camera, they always wear masks and shoot like crap.
I thought you were going to say that when they are off camera, they take
off their masks, have clear vision, and therefore shoot much better. :)
"Helmets on, men, here comes the camera crew!"
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:18:13 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Email Woes
For a variety of reasons, my supposedly permanent email account at
filkhero@usa.net has gone belly up. My new account is
filkhero@deskmail.com.
If anyone has sent me anything, or expected me to reply on the list to
anything, it arrived in an account where I _may_ be able to retrieve
it, later. So far, my subscribe to the Hero List from this account has
had no results.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:31:07 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: RE: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Lance Dyas
>
<snip>
>
> Einsteins Inventive Genius normally gets blopped into his
> intelligence, he invented
> whole hog much of the support Math and the Physics without
> experimental basis it is
> totally flabbergasting, Put the points where you want to
> but he should come off as
> having a wierd mind. Based on what Ive heard the man had an
> estimated real world iq
> of 180.
I have been following this thread for some time, but I didn't intend
to make any comment. However, I did notice when people claimed that
INT rules didn't match what they were used for in the game, and
decided to compare what Einstein was known to be good at compared and
what Einstein was known to be bad at to INT and various skills.
INT grants: Einstein
Perception Notably not perceptive.
Decision-making abilities Notably poor decision maker
Quick thinking in crisis Always stopped to consider before answering
even simple questions in his field.
The ability to understand the world Notably easily confused by
real-world events around him.
Einstein had:
Deductive abilities Deduction. (INT-based, not INT)
The ability to create new theories Inventor. (INT-based, not INT)
Mathematical intuition PS: Mathematician; SCI: Mathematics
(_Optionally_ INT-based, not INT)
Understanding of Physics PS: Theoretical physicist; SCI: Theoretical
Physics (_Optionally_ INT-based, not INT)
Mastery of chess PS: Chess (_Optionally_ INT-based, not INT)
In short, as best I can determine, every mental ability that Einstein
was known for being good at is a _skill_ in the HERO System, and every
mental ability that he was known to be bad at is part of INT.
Now, you could simulate this with Limitations on INT. However, A) if
you eliminate most of what INT does for you directly, but not what it
does indirectly, I would say that, regardless of what the character
sheet may say, the character _is_ a low INT character, and B) you
could do that with DEX, PRE, or EGO, too, if you wanted a lot of
skills based upon them. But I think it is nothing but taking advantage
of a loophole in the rules, and I'd probably reduce the costs no
further than to the same as if you had bought just the appropriate
skill levels. In cases where skill levels cost more, I'd forbid it
entirely.
Some people noted that Einstein would be expensive if he didn't have a
high INT in the game. Not necessarily. The Skill Level rules indicate
that for 5 pts, he should be able to buy +1 to all INT-based skills.
Additionally, since he was notably bad at some INT-based skills
(Non-theoretical, actually-in-the-real world _anything_), you could
simply give those 5 pt levels a limitation (-1/4: Only with purely
mental skills, for example), and have him cost _less_ than otherwise.
In short, if a player came to me with a character who had a high INT,
but none of the abilities granted by high INT except the skill roll
increases, I would probably simply turn him down. And if I allowed it,
I would _not_ say that the character had a high INT, only that that
was a cheap way of buying something else.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:12:11 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Treasure update
http://www.viser.net/~joelat/fhero.htm
Done some editing and slight modifications to the charts, updated version
now available, and I even put the URL on here!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 03:39:30 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Lord Vader's Powers
- -----Original Message-----
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Captain Antilles didn't know anything useful, and Vader knew it. He killed
>Antilles as an example, and because his other option was to order him
>killed as his only remaining use was as an example.
>
Not Really. There would be a wealth of information to be tortured out of
him.
Yo're mistakening vader's brutality for the calculating evil of characters
like thrwn and tarkin. Vader did hate, a lot.
>Killing the Admiral was not wasteful. The Admiral had just failed at an
>important task, at least in part because he had balked at the danger of
>continued pursuit. Further, the Admiral took full blame for that failure,
>and did not seem afraid to do so. Vader killed him in front of his men,
>then promoted the Second officer who was staring agast. As a friend said
>at that point, "He now OWNS that man!" From then on, the new Admiral looks
>as if he expects to be killed for the slightest mistake. Basicly, it's
>battered spousal syndrome: The Admiral is so desperate for Vader's approval
>that he will do anything he is told without question or thought for his own
>safety.
>
. . . . at the cost of a highly experienced and responsible fleet
admiral. They, unlike tie fighter pilots, are not a dime a dozen.
>>I think it's a reasonable statement to say that Vader IS angry, but that
he
>>hides it well (not surprising, considering he's got virtually no human
>>method of expressing his emotions).
>>
>
>I have seen Vader angry. His body language makes it quite clear when he is
>ticked off. But it doesn't happen often, and the only violent response
>I've seen was when he smashed his hand down on something.
>
>Anyway, Your Milage May Vary but IMO Vader acts more like an Evil Jedi than
>a follower of the Dark Side.
>
An evil jedi is a follower of the dark side.
That dark side is not nesecarily wasteful or
less competent just because it's passionatly
evil- It seems mr spocks' myth of logic
without emotion rears it's ugly head again. . .
>
>============================
>Geoff Heald
>============================
>"do you hear someone laughing megalomaniacally?"
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:52:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
[Here he is. All done. Well, maybe. Did I miss anything?
Everything look okay?]
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have constructed.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the
Force"
DARTH VADER
Dark Lord of the Sith
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
30 STR 20 15- 1600kg; 6d6
21 DEX 39 13- OCV: 7 / DCV: 7
23 CON 26 14-
15 BODY 10 12-
15 INT 5 12- PER Roll 12-
23 EGO 26 14- ECV: 8
20/30 PRE 10 13-/15- PRE Attack: 4d6 / 6d6
6 COM -2 10-
8 PD 2 Total: PD / PDr
7 ED 2 Total: ED / EDr
4 SPD 7 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
9 REC 0
46 END 0
50 STUN 10
Total Characteristics Cost: 155
Movement: Running: 6" / 12"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
21 Combat Skill Levels: +4 with all Combat
Martial Arts: Lightsaber dueling; use Art with Lightsaber
Maneuver OCV DCV Damage
4 Cut +0 +2 Weapon +1 DC
4 Disarm -1 +1 40 STR Disarm
4 Parry +2 +2 Block, Abort
5 Thrust +1 +3 Weapon Damage
5 Slash -2 +1 Weapon +2 DC
Force Powers:
300 Force Manipulation Variable Power Pool: 150 Point Pool
No Skill Roll (+1), Can Change Powers as 0 Phase Action (+1),
Limited SFX: Force Powers (-1/2)
58 Force Sensitive: Detect: Force Activity, Discriminatory, Ranged,
Sense,
Telescopic +16, 360 degrees, 15-
9 Force Sensitive: Mental Awareness 15-
9 In Tune With the Force: Combat Sense 15-
Equipment:
48 Lightsaber: RKA: 2d6, AVLD [DEF: Non-physical 'force fields',
hardened armors, parrying with another lightsaber etc] (+1 1/2),
Does BODY (+1), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2), OAF (-1)
18 Armored Costume: Armor: +6 DEF
3 Rebreather: Life Support: May breathe in an unusual environment,
OIF: Armored Costume (-1/2)
Background Skills:
5 Fearsome Reputation: +10 PRE, Offensive Only (-1)
3 Acrobatics 13-
3 Astrogation (Navigation) 11-
3 Breakfall 13-
7 Combat Pilot 15-
5 KS: Jedi Knights 14-
5 KS: The Force 14-
2 PS: Jedi Knight 11-
3 Systems Operation 12-
2 TF: Space Vehicles
3 Weaponsmith: Lightsaber 11-
3 WF: Lightsaber, Small Arms
532 Total Powers & Skills Cost
687 Total Character Cost
100+ Disadvantages
20 Dependence: His suit (internal life support mechanisms), 1d6 per
Segment
Distinctive Features:
10 Force Signature (NC, only detectable by other force sensitives)
20 Great height, armored costume (NC)
Psychological Limitation:
10 Loyal to Palatine (C, M)
20 Megalomaniac (VC, S)
20 Ruthless (VC, S)
20 Reputation: Darth Vader, the Emperor's right-hand man (Ext) 14-
15 Secret ID: Annakin Skywalker
10 Watched: Emperor Palatine (MoPow, NCI) 8-
442 Experience
687 Total Disadvantage Points
Designers Notes:
This writeup represents Darth Vader based on the only 'true' source of
information about the character; the original "Star Wars" trilogy. I used
information from that series, as well as the scripts from the movies (ie.
my three "Art of" books) as well as input from the Hero Mailing List, to
create this character sheet.
As far as I know, Vader's history runs like this: Darth Vader was born
Annakin Skywalker on Tatooine. He showed a powerful gift for the Force
from an early age and eventually became the student of Obi Wan Kenobi, a
Jedi Knight. Eventually, he went on to train under Yoda and was made a
fully-fledged Jedi. At some point, Annakin was seduced by the power and
the promise of the 'Dark Side' and turned against his fellow Jedi. He
betrayed them to the Emperor, and helped to hunt down and destroy the
once-proud Knighthood. During these events, he had a final battle with
Obi Wan Kenobi, during which he was grievous injured (reports vary) and
was only able to survive the experience by being rebuilt as a virtual
cyborg.
Now, given the title Darth Vader, the man formally known as Annakin
Sywalker is now the Emperor's righthand-man, enforcing the Emperor's will
across the galaxy.
Description:
Vader is over 2 meters tall, which makes him a good 6'6" in height (at
least). He dresses in a solid black suit of 'armor', that he might not be
able to take off. On his chest is a control panel for his life support
systems, and on his head he wears a helmet and breath mask that bears some
resemblence to helmets worn by the samurai. Black gloves, boots and a
long, flowing black cape complete the image.
Powers Notes:
Vader is a master of the Force and a former Jedi Knight. Thus, even
though he has turned to the Dark Side, he has not lost his control of the
Force, in fact, he might have even gained a little more power (but, at
what cost?).
Some of Vader's Force Powers include:
Missile Deflection: All Jedi can deflect energy weapons with their
lightsabers. Vader goes one step further. In "The Empire Strikes Back",
Vader hold out his hand and effortlessly stop's Han's blaster shots. This
is obviously Missile Deflection, with the special effect that the the
shots don't 'deflect' anywhere, they just vanish. Note that Vader than
yanks the blaster out of Han's hand, which brings to the next of Vader's
powers -
Telekinesis: Vader can move objects with is mind. Based on the
size of the objects he hurled in "The Empire Strikes Back", as well as how
far he threw them he looks to have about a 40 to 50 Telekinetic STR. This
TK is "Invisible to Sight" and "Indirect". One may want to use the rules
about BOECV TK from "The Ultimate Mentalist", in which one applies a +1
Advantage for "Based on Ego-Combat Value" as well as the "Indirect"
advantage. Since 50 STR of TK bought with these advantages comes to about
150 Active Points, that is how I came up with the size of Vader's Power
Pool.
Telekinetic Choke: There are several ways to do this. One is a
simple application of TK. Another would be a NND EB with Invisible
Effects. If using this power, the Game Master would need to use the
choking rules from "The Ultimate Martial Artist", in which a character
will take BODY once all of their STUN is gone. A final way is to buy
Vader a Ego Attack that "Does Body" for an extra +1 advantage.
In order to choke someone on another starship, Vader would need to find
the offending party with Mind Scan, and then attack with his Ego Attack.
It is highly likely that this power require Concentration, which is why
Vader doesn't use it in combat.
Other, possible, power for Vader's power pool include: Precognition (he
knew that the Rebels were on Hoth), Mind Control (witness Obi Wan's trick
with the storm troopers in Mos Eisley), Telepathy, Levitation (ie. Flight)
and Spatial Awareness.
Other, non-Power Pool Force powers include:
Force Sensitive: Vader is very aware of other users of the Force
and of the flow of the Force itself. He states "The Force is strong in
this one" when pursuing Luke Skywalker at the end of "Star Wars", and he
knows that Obi Wan is on the Death Star. This exact range is open to
speculation, since Obi Wan felt the death of Alderann from lightyears
away.
Mental Awareness: This ties into his Force Sensitive abilities.
Combat Sense: Since Luke was able to fight blindfolded (if only
for a short moment), there is no reason why Vader can't do likewise.
Vader's 'armor' provids some defense versus weapons, as well allwoing him
to breath normally. His helmet may (or may not) have extra devices built
into it, such a IR Vision, UV Vision or Flash Defense.
The lightsaber is built to cut through most anything. I gave it the AVLD
advantage, specifying several different defenses that *can* stop a 'saber.
A lightsaber blade cannot cut through another 'saber blade. Since this is
so, logic states that you can't cut through a deflector shield with a
'saber either. It also seems likely that 'hardened' defenses will be far
more resistant to a lightsaber blade. Thus, hardened armor would work as
normally vs a lightsaber, rather than providing no defense.
As there is no one true way to define a lightsaber (at least, the Star
Wars version), Game Masters should feel free to tinker with the design.
Other methods include HKAs, No Range RKAs, NND RKAs and RKAs with large
amounts of Penetrating or Armor Piercing.
Disadvantages Notes:
As a man consumed by the Dark Side, Vader is also consumed with anger.
His is not a volatile anger, but one that seethes below the surface and
issues forth in more subtle ways. Vader is very ruthless, he kills a
number of Admirals (or starts to) several times in the series, usually in
response to failures or disobedience on the part of these Admirals. He
rules by fear, fear of him and fear of the Emperor. On the other hand, he
is willing to over throw the Emperor, as witnessed by his attempts to
persuade Luke in "Empire Strikes Back" (although he could have been lying,
you never know). Another aspect of his ruthlessness is the fact he is
willing to see his own daughter tortured and killed, virtually before his
eyes, and not show any sign of emotion of this fact (although one could
argue that he many not have known that Leia was his daughter at that
time). Vader is also very much a megalomaniac, wanting nothing more than
to crush the rebellion (and if his taunts to Luke are true) depose the
Emperor and gain control of the Empire for himself (with Luke replacing
Vader's place?). Interestingly enough, Vader is still rather loyal to the
Emperor, at least, right up until the end, where he returns to the Light
and literally overthrows Palatine (tossing him down the air shaft).
(Darth Vader created by George Lucas, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook and the Hero Mailing List)
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:10:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>
> Telekinesis: Vader can move objects with is mind. Based on the
> size of the objects he hurled in "The Empire Strikes Back", as well as how
> far he threw them he looks to have about a 40 to 50 Telekinetic STR. This
> TK is "Invisible to Sight" and "Indirect". One may want to use the rules
> about BOECV TK from "The Ultimate Mentalist", in which one applies a +1
> Advantage for "Based on Ego-Combat Value" as well as the "Indirect"
> advantage. Since 50 STR of TK bought with these advantages comes to about
> 150 Active Points, that is how I came up with the size of Vader's Power
> Pool.
>
I'm probably getting 'telekinesis' confused with the Hero effect Telekinesis
again, but what does the 'Indirect' advantage give you in addition
to normal 'Telekinesis' ?
Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
blocked by intervening substances....
Curt Hicks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
> > Telekinesis: Vader can move objects with is mind. Based on the
> > size of the objects he hurled in "The Empire Strikes Back", as well as how
> > far he threw them he looks to have about a 40 to 50 Telekinetic STR. This
> > TK is "Invisible to Sight" and "Indirect". One may want to use the rules
> > about BOECV TK from "The Ultimate Mentalist", in which one applies a +1
> > Advantage for "Based on Ego-Combat Value" as well as the "Indirect"
> > advantage. Since 50 STR of TK bought with these advantages comes to about
> > 150 Active Points, that is how I came up with the size of Vader's Power
> > Pool.
> I'm probably getting 'telekinesis' confused with the Hero effect Telekinesis
> again, but what does the 'Indirect' advantage give you in addition
> to normal 'Telekinesis' ?
Allows you to attack from any direction and to affect objects behind
barriers.
> Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
> blocked by intervening substances....
By the rules, yes, it is.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:15:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
> > I'm probably getting 'telekinesis' confused with the Hero effect Telekinesis
> > again, but what does the 'Indirect' advantage give you in addition
> > to normal 'Telekinesis' ?
>
> Allows you to attack from any direction and to affect objects behind
> barriers.
>
> > Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
> > blocked by intervening substances....
>
> By the rules, yes, it is.
>
Explicitly ? Or because it's a standard power ?
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:19:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
> > > blocked by intervening substances....
> >
> > By the rules, yes, it is.
>
> Explicitly ? Or because it's a standard power ?
Yes, it is a standard power, and by default it is blocked by barriers,
force walls and so on. It is not a LOS power, either. TK can be
manything, to mkae it like 'classical' TK (ie the Force , anime
psychokinetics, most TV telekinetics) it needs to be invisible and able to
ignore barriers.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:33:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
>
> > > > Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
> > > > blocked by intervening substances....
> > >
> > > By the rules, yes, it is.
>
> >
> > Explicitly ? Or because it's a standard power ?
>
> Yes, it is a standard power, and by default it is blocked by barriers,
> force walls and so on. It is not a LOS power, either. TK can be
> manything, to mkae it like 'classical' TK (ie the Force , anime
> psychokinetics, most TV telekinetics) it needs to be invisible and able to
> ignore barriers.
>
Hurmm.. I'll have to reread the rules, but this makes TK even less desirable
as a power.
(I'd like to think that a character with TK could unlock a car after he
accidentally locked his keys inside without buying 'Indirect'. I guess
a 'telekinetic' character could, but it seems a character with just straight
Hero system 'Telekinesis' could not. Actually, this makes the Stretching
with Invisible Power Effects a better alternative in some cases.)
Curt
p.s. Now I'm wondering what *other* power misunderstandings I've got...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:39:16 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: TK
>> > I'm probably getting 'telekinesis' confused with the Hero effect
Telekinesis
>> > again, but what does the 'Indirect' advantage give you in addition
>> > to normal 'Telekinesis' ?
>>
>> Allows you to attack from any direction and to affect objects behind
>> barriers.
>>
>> > Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
>> > blocked by intervening substances....
>>
>> By the rules, yes, it is.
>>
>
>
>Explicitly ? Or because it's a standard power ?
All powers are affected by barriers unless they are indirect (teleport, for
example, is indirect movement, of a sort). All TK does is allow you to
exert strength at range through some means (long arms, water movement, air,
etc).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:42:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 3 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > > Off the top of my head, I'd already say that 'Telekinesis' is not really
> > > > blocked by intervening substances....
> > > By the rules, yes, it is.
> > Explicitly ? Or because it's a standard power ?
>
> Yes, it is a standard power, and by default it is blocked by barriers,
> force walls and so on. It is not a LOS power, either. TK can be
> manything, to mkae it like 'classical' TK (ie the Force , anime
> psychokinetics, most TV telekinetics) it needs to be invisible and able to
> ignore barriers.
My friend was rather upset when he wanted to make a "Super Akira
Style Telekinetic" Japanese cool go-go gang bike riding kid.
In order to get the proper effect, he had to buy TK, Indirect,
BOECV, Does Body, Invisible to all Sense Groups but Mental, NND (The
reasoning behind NND being that if you're levitated with TK, there's no
action/reaction possible unless you have Flight or you can grab on to an
object. Also NND for "tricks" like attacking someone inside a power armor
suit). He was even more put off by the outrageous cost-- PLUS he didn't
get Flight as a "free side effect power" and he had to pay lots of END.
There's no pleasing some people. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:43:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: TK (was Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?))
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > Yes, it is a standard power, and by default it is blocked by barriers,
> > force walls and so on. It is not a LOS power, either. TK can be
> > manything, to mkae it like 'classical' TK (ie the Force , anime
> > psychokinetics, most TV telekinetics) it needs to be invisible and able to
> > ignore barriers.
>
> Hurmm.. I'll have to reread the rules, but this makes TK even less desirable
> as a power.
TK is nice, but it depends on what the GM allows. I really don't like the
1.5 points per point of STR myself, as it makes it too weak compared to
straight STR.
> (I'd like to think that a character with TK could unlock a car after he
> accidentally locked his keys inside without buying 'Indirect'. I guess
> a 'telekinetic' character could, but it seems a character with just straight
> Hero system 'Telekinesis' could not. Actually, this makes the Stretching
> with Invisible Power Effects a better alternative in some cases.)
By the book, he can't. He could manipulate the lock, if he has 'fine work'
on his TK. Stretching has many problems as well though, as it gets very
expensive to get any substantial distance. It also won't let you get
inside the locked car either.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:48:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Translating Adventures
I wish to rework an adevntures for different game system
supplements to HERO.
By doing so, I need to rewrite all of the rules and reformulate
all of the characters.
Be it in HERO, or other conversions, do you find that you have to
"gut" an adevnture to make it more workable?
I'm converting various DC, Marvel, and Palladium adventures. The
names will be changed to protect the innocent. :)
As luck would have it, the adventures are suprisingly compatible,
and the heroes will be roving from one state to another, and perhaps out
of the country. In a way, I get to give the characters a "guided tour" of
the campagin world... both in and out of their Hero/Secret IDs.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:52:04 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: Palladium Conversion (was: RE: Translating Adventures)
I posted this a couple of weeks ago, wondering if anyone had a workable
Palladium to HERO conversion. I've been working on one, but I want to see
how it compares with others that may be out there.
Thanks
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Sullivan [SMTP:ravanos@NJCU.edu]
> Sent: Monday, 03 May, 1999 15:48
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Translating Adventures
>
>
> I wish to rework an adevntures for different game system
> supplements to HERO.
>
> By doing so, I need to rewrite all of the rules and reformulate
> all of the characters.
>
> Be it in HERO, or other conversions, do you find that you have to
> "gut" an adevnture to make it more workable?
>
> I'm converting various DC, Marvel, and Palladium adventures. The
> names will be changed to protect the innocent. :)
>
> As luck would have it, the adventures are suprisingly compatible,
> and the heroes will be roving from one state to another, and perhaps out
> of the country. In a way, I get to give the characters a "guided tour" of
> the campagin world... both in and out of their Hero/Secret IDs.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:50:55 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Spock's Brain and Intuition
At 09:39 PM 4/30/99 -0400, Len Carpenter wrote:
>I like Bill Svitavsky's idea for an Intuition talent. I think the game
>could benefit from a few more talents to represent those intangible or
>difficult-to-measure aspects of characters not easily represented by gross
>characteristics. (I previously mentioned my notion of eliminating
>Comeliness as a stat and making a high Comeliness a talent instead.) Don't
>want to overdo it, though, lest Hero start looking too much like GURPS.
>
I'm glad you like my Intuition talent. I included it in my response to the
5th edition questionnaire, so perhaps there's a remote possibility it (or
something like it) might even get some official sanction. It seems to me
like a pretty significant ability of fictional heroes that could use
representation.
Interestingly, I have a tougher time coming up with superheroes from comics
who are exceptionally intuitive than I do thinking of heroes from film or
text fiction. I mentioned my favorite film & TV examples: Luke Skywalker,
Fox Mulder, and Twin Peaks' Agent Cooper. And Jim Kirk is what brought this
topic up in the first place. Can anybody think of any good examples in
comics, though? It comes up occassionally with mystical heroes, but there's
a fine line there between intuition and mystical senses. "I feel
something is unusual here..." Jack Knight (Starman) is certainly more
intuitive than his deductive father Ted, but that's more a personality
trait than it is a significant ability.
Comics problem-solvers seem to be primarily deductive types; perhaps that's
because thought balloons are so often used to give readers a clear
representation of thought processes, but don't allow enough room for more
complex stream-of-consciousness.
Still just about every hero goes with a gut feeling once in a while - maybe
Intuition 8- should be an Everyman ability?
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:52:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: TK Stuff
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> My friend was rather upset when he wanted to make a "Super Akira
> Style Telekinetic" Japanese cool go-go gang bike riding kid.
Akira (or better yet) Tetsuo is *very* expensive. My version was a cool
900+ points.
> In order to get the proper effect, he had to buy TK, Indirect,
> BOECV, Does Body, Invisible to all Sense Groups but Mental, NND (The
> reasoning behind NND being that if you're levitated with TK, there's no
> action/reaction possible unless you have Flight or you can grab on to an
> object. Also NND for "tricks" like attacking someone inside a power armor
> suit). He was even more put off by the outrageous cost-- PLUS he didn't
> get Flight as a "free side effect power" and he had to pay lots of END.
Whoa. I think you over did it. By my figuring, you could go the simple
route and but it as Invisible and Indirect. I don't see the need for
"Does Body" or NND. Long discusses what BOECV TK gets you in TUM, and he
didn't remove the ability to damage objects with it. The NND part goes
against hte idea of NND, what is the defense? Having TK? In the Akira
world, anyone with TK had enough to render anyone else's STR moot, so you
didn't need NND. In a super's world things should be more balanced
between characters.
In my Kazei 5 book, I discuss how to simulate the anime psychokinetic and
how to modify the rules to make it easier on the point bank. Part of this
is by allowing TK to be 1 point per i point of STR and making it
'inviisble' by default.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #309
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:53 PM