Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 31
Desmarais, John 
From:	owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent:	Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:56 AM 
To:	champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject:	champ-l-digest V1 #31 
 
champ-l-digest       Thursday, November 5 1998       Volume 01 : Number 031 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
    Re: MUCH-OVERUSED FANTASY RPG CLICHES 
    Re: GURPS: GURPS 
    Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions) 
    RE: something still odder 
    Re: OFF TOPIC: Software Upgrade (was: Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted) 
    RE: Everyimmortal [Dr. Nuncheon] 
    Re: Favorite NPC's 
    Re: Look Out!  It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets) 
    Re: Possession? 
    Re: Combat Skill Level 
    Re: home grown 
    Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions) 
    Re: TK in the USA 
    Re: Automatons 
    Re: metal armour 
    Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
    Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
    Re: Old Email showing up again from list 
    Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
    Re: something odder 
    Re: Star Trek Campaigns (was Re: Howdy!) 
    Re: Blade 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 05:02:58 -0500 (EST) 
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu> 
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
 
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, qts wrote: 
> >Cannot Move In Phase When Power Is Used (-1/4) for especially cumbersome 
> >spells where upon failure could result in a disasterous result. 
>  
> That's just Extra Time: Full Phase 
	The character, if trying to make a half-move before using a power 
with this Limitation, or taking KB or KD in the same Phase before he gets 
to use his power, he should suffer substantial minuses to hit his target 
(at least -3), and at the GM's option, may even be injured with his own 
attack. 
  
> >Cannot Use Targeting With Spell (-1/2) for speels that are so complex, 
> >their casting takes precidence over aiming. 
>  
> How is this actually a limitation? If it's an attack spell, you need to 
> target it; if it isn't you don't. 
	The character cannot "call shots" against hit locations or 
otherwise try to hit one specific location or target. 
 
> >...and the ever popular Restrainable (-1/2) for spells that require 
> >complex but easily restrainable somantic components. 
> Oh no, that's plain Gestures. 
 
	Actually, for the cost, Restrainable is a much more cost efficent Lim. 
Gestures indicates that you would need to make obvious gestures, the power 
will not work if grabbed, the power will not turn on if attacked during 
gesturing, -1/4 for turing on, or -1/2 for constant.  Restrainable is not 
necessarily obvious, does noy work (normally) if grabbed or entangled, but 
may be used if attacked.  Restrainable may also be used as part of the 
attack roll, unlike Gestures. 
	Any advice on how to clarify this? 
- -+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+- 
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."  
	-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers.  Line 6.  
- -=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:06:53 -0500 
From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net> 
Subject: Re: MUCH-OVERUSED FANTASY RPG CLICHES 
 
On 8/10/98, at 5:25 PM, B.C. Holmes wrote:  
 
>Guy Hoyle wrote: 
>>  
>> On 8/10/98, at 8:16 AM, Rob Davenport wrote: 
>> >But then that brings up the issue of 
>> >how best to have players know what their PCs know - "expository lumps" 
>>  
>> >of text handed out when starting the character or game; note on slips 
>> of 
>> >paper during the game; rumors etc. heard from NPCs and being told "you 
>> >remember having heard that as a child". 
>>  
>> If you can work it in as NPC knowlegde imparted to players during the 
>> course of play, that's preferable.  
> 
>	In a writer's group that I belong to, this is known as the "As you know 
>Bob" device, when handled particularly badly.  Basically, one character 
>quips up, "Well, as you know, Bob, faster-than-light travel has been 
>around since the late 21st Century... ever since we first encountered 
>the Xoxoll Empire!" 
 
Ewgh. Truly bad. Absolutely deplorable. 
 
 
>> All the other methods you mentioned above work when something 
>> unexpected comes up. 
> 
>	Depending on the information, sometimes I use scene flashbacks.   
 
Flashbacxks are used far too infrequently in RPGs. I think there's a tremendous potential going to waste here. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:03:04 -0700 
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com> 
Subject: Re: GURPS: GURPS 
 
thomas deja wrote: 
 
> Conidering that I'm willing to bet that the GURPS licensed stuff allows 
> SJG to do original stuff (you wanna bet GURPS: Vampire outsold all the 
> Illuminiati and Voodoo and Atomic horror, etc...combined?), why are we 
> so down on it?  It's like the comic company Dark Horse doing Star wars 
> books to allow it to do obscure mangas and Andrew Vacchs 
> adaptions--doing these adaptions frees them up to do stuff SJG wants to 
> do. 
 
    HEY! Don't be slamming Dark Horse! 
 
    I am the one first to admit that Dark Horse built itself on Licensing. 
Mike Richardsen, the owner and publisher and owner, is also one of the first 
to admit it. They found a niche in the comic book industry and laid claim to 
it, with very little serious opposition Licensing and tie-ins with movies and 
other material does make a whole ton of money. And they have devoted a 
tremendous amount of resources to it. 
 
    But this also allows them to print their own original material. In fact, 
much of the movie tie-ins are actually original material. And then there are 
their own original characters and booksl. No, that section of their line does 
not sell as much as the tie-ins. But it does give them a strength that pretty 
much will keep them going with no threat to their stability. They have the 
ability to experiment very well and still remain at the top of the industry. 
 
    Comparing Dark Horse and SJG is something I don't believe is apropriate. 
They operate completely differently when to comes to licenses material. Dark 
Horse produces entire lines of new stories and new material based on the movie 
tie-ins. SJG just adapts the existing material and goes no further. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:33:24 -0700 
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com> 
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions) 
 
> >> Over the past several years, DC has been systematically revising 
> >> histories of their characters, replacing conventional religious symbols 
> >> with "Lords of Order" and such. 
> > 
> >       On the other hand the current Supergirl comment involves her having a 
> >very christian guardian angel. 
>  
> Interesting! I didn't know about this, having pretty much ignored 
> "Supergirl" since DC killed her off and replaced her with that Matrix 
> creature.  I'll have to go grab a few back issues and have a look. 
 
	I've been trying to find an excuse to collect the title for months now; 
but each time I open a copy at a comic store I end up dissapointed. 
However I know that the current issue; which I think was #25, had a 
little kid who was actually an angel going around and making sure one of 
DNPC's stayed christian. Or something like that. It could have been 
anywhere from 18-28 though. Issues 18 up to current are still on the 
racks at the local store and I flip through them when I'm bored on my 
lunch hour and trying to find a new comic to collect. As yet I haven't 
been able to justify the title as the writing is not in the tastes I 
prefer. 
 
	Besides I can't stand it when people use comics to push a religious 
agenda. 
 
- --  
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{>< 
 __  Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html 
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html  Super Hero Links 
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/              Super Hero RPG Site 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:36:21 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: RE: something still odder 
 
On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Brian Wawrow wrote: 
 
> > by the time we buy Galactus's ability to transform people into 
> > heralds, were paying 45+ points per dice, because it's ranged, 
> > plus other limits or advants. If we pair that cost with an active 
> > point limit, suddenly this puts a new perspective on abuse, I feel. 
> >  
> 	Sure. Buying a Major Transform to crank up someone's ability is 
> expensive. That's beside the point on the question of abuse. To me, this 
> is openning up a huge can of worms. So you take MT human being into any 
> high powered freak. You buy 1 die cummulative. It takes extra time, 
> concentration an immobile focus, eat the baby, yatta yatta yatta, next 
> thing you know, you've spent 4 points and it takes you all day to turn 
> your buddy into a high powered mutant freak. If there's no mechanism in 
> place to regulate how tough the freak is, you've lost all sense of scale 
> and balance in your campaign.  
 
True.  Maybe you need to reach a certain level of effect (over and above 
the Transform level) to add a certain number of points. 
 
Alternately, talk your GM into allowing it as an Aid to powers the target 
doesn't have.  Aid (Cosmic Power Pool), fade rate of a century or so, at 
the proper levels (+umpteend6) might do it. 
  
> 	I'd accept this MT with higher points concept if the power cost, 
> say 1pt. extra for every 5pts. you were going to add to your target. 
 
I seem to recall that one of the HEROguys said that Transform was going to 
change in 5th Ed, and you were going to have to pay more points if you 
were transforming something into something more useful - maybe that will 
address this problem? 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:38:20 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com> 
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Software Upgrade (was: Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted) 
 
> >	It's at: 
> >	http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/BrightFuture.html 
> > 
> >	for those who don't believe me or are curious. It's a Champions PBeM 
> >	I play in set in the CNM universe but under 4th edition. Won't load 
> >	under IE 3.0 or lower though (needs netscape 3.0, or IE 4.0) due 
> >	to a script I put in that crashes on old IE browsers. But then, there's 
> >	no valid excuse to not upgrade anyway. What with free software and 
> >	all... 
>  
> <rant> 
> Of course there's a reason not to upgrade.  IE 4.0 has a MUCH large installation size  
> than IE 3.0., and, if this can be imagined, is even less stable (same for NS 4 vs NS 3). 
> </rant> 
> 
	(rant) 
	DOS is more stable than windows. However Netscape 4.0.5 is more stable 
than 3.0, runs all the modern languages, and is smaller than 4.0, though still 
larger than 3.0; simply due to the number of real and usable features. 
 
	Given that; There's no reason to hold back design on the web for those 
few who insist on obsolete programs. Besides, even for the ludite crowd ( :) ) 
there's NS 3.0 which does run most modern languages, and doesn't crash on those 
it can't run. 
 	(/rant) 
 
	To bring this back to Champions... 
 
	Um... hmmm... 
	Well, anyway. 
 
	For those who want to put up sites with their characters, the free 
websites make a very good option. Especially since many of them will never 
expire as far as I know. 
	I may or may not move my fantasy hero site over to my geocities site 
when I go public with it. 
 
- --  
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{>< 
 __  Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html 
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html  Super Hero Links 
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/              Super Hero RPG Site 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:54:03 -0500 (CDT) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: RE: Everyimmortal [Dr. Nuncheon] 
 
On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote: 
> >In a modern game, I might be tempted to either make 'archaic/obsolete' 
> >skills cost less by fiat, or to offer a Skill Enhancer to do the same: 
> > 
> >Archaic: 3 pts. 
> >The 'Archaic' skill enhancer reduces the cost of skills that are no longer 
> >useful parts of daily society.  It can reduce the costs of Professional 
> >Skills, Area Knowledges, Languages that have changed significantly from 
> >that time period to modern day, and any other skill the GM deems to be 
> >'Archaic' or 'obsolete'. 
> >Possessed by: Immortals, dedicated recreationists 
> > 
> >This would help the Immortal character a lot - it'd let him buy Languages, 
> >old PSes, AKs, etc at a discount rate.  I might even stretch the rules a 
> >bit and let him pick up some 8- skills for 'free' using this.* 
>  
> Here again I have to ask how this is significantly different from what I've 
> been talking about with tailored ES lists; if you "stretch the rules a bit" 
> and give a character a few 8- skills free, doesn't that have the same 
> effect as my giving out a few additional AKs, PSs or TFs in the ES list? 
 
Well, in this case, they're at least paying /something/ for them. 
Although in general I favor the second method: 
  
> I did like the idea of 2 FAMs for 1 point under the Archaic Skill Enhancer, 
> though. 
 
...which I would also apply to all other Skill Enhancers.  I might up the 
cost of the Enhancer to 5 points to cover this - but if you've got plenty 
of skills of a given type, it's certainly worth it. 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 11:25:57 -0700 
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net> 
Subject: Re: Favorite NPC's 
 
At 01:29 PM 8/7/98 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote: 
>When we reminisce about that old game, my friends and I will inevitably 
>bring up Col. Taine - he's practically an old friend.  
> 
>Anybody else care to share accounts of favorite NPC's? 
 
I think the NPC that shocked me when the PCs took to him was the Golden 
Avenger, in my "Hudson Hawks" game.  I'd designed DJ Johnson as the 
consummate nice guy, but I really wasn't having him show up much.  I will 
admit they were quite skeptical in the beginning, especially since this was 
the first time he'd been introduced as the "new" Golden Avenger.  While his 
power level was lower than theirs on average, his perks and skills made him 
easily a hundred points over the PCs, and I was very sensitive to that fact 
- -- I wanted the game to be about them, not him.  I certainly didn't want 
the game to involve PRIMUS showing up all the time to bail them out!  
 
I'm not entirely sure when in that campaign he became accepted -- but all 
of a sudden, DJ was getting dinner invitations to the PCs' houses, being 
set up with female friends, called for advice, invited to the secret base 
to hang out, and when the PCs discovered some really nasty things about 
PRIMUS, they called him first.  The AI in their base still has a crush on 
him.  =) 
 
They do become old friends, you're very right.   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre 
http://www.mactyre.net 
 
A flung stone has always been a fool's favorite means of putting himself on 
a level with the wise.   
- -- Edgar Pangborn 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:27:52 -0500 (EST) 
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu> 
Subject: Re: Look Out!  It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets) 
 
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
 
>    While reasonable from the standpoint of logical construction, by the 
> time you're doing this it's a fairly complex Power for something that's 
> going to be used as the character's primary attack.  Having VSFX is plenty, 
> but also adding VA with various Limitations means that a number of checks 
> and decisions will have to be made each time it's used. 
>    It's up to the GM, of course, but that's how I see it. 
 
	Being the GM and all, when conceptualizing Mr. Fist, I thought of 
giving him Variable Advantage in addition of VSFX to simulate the various 
possible effects he could acheive with the gauntlets.  In addition, I then 
thought of slapping on Variable Limitations, for appropiate situations in 
which the power would be ineffective (such as a flame fist under water). 
	I finally realized that this would be too complex, and in my 
attempt to make a verisitle Mr. Fist, I was really just causing myself too 
many headaches.  Mr. Fist is quick and dirty, and his 'danger' lies in the 
fact that he can do additional 'stuff' like suddenly set a building on 
fire with a Flame Hand, or electrocute a hostage with a thought, or form 
wrecking ball type globes on his knuckles for bashing down a wall.  Too 
many advantages and limitations would bog it down a tad. 
 
	There is always a possibility of a VPP being developed for 'drill 
fists' (tunnling) or 'climbing hooks' (for climbling), or even limited 
distance attacks, such as 'the old electric fist' (EB, only along metal), 
and other such effects that surpass the limits of minor SFX.  Though that 
dosen't solve the advantage problem... 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:30:09 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Douglas Uptegraft <s002cdu@discover.wright.edu> 
Subject: Re: Possession? 
 
On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, James Jandebeur wrote: 
 
> One way to get the other effect, which requires GM Fiat to work, is to 
> define the target's mind as another dimension, which you just dimensionally 
> move into while the mind control is operative.  When they break out, you pop 
> back out.  40 points of dimensional movement, for various minds. 
 
You might be on to something there, James.  
  
How about making the MC Transdimensional and giving the character a Linked 
Extra-Dimensional Movement to a "pocket dimension" that is EXACTLY 
parallel to the Earth Dimension (sort of like an astral plane or 
something)? One could even limit the E-DM to only working if such-and-such 
a level of MC is in effect (making the power Uncontrolled by the PC?).... 
  
It would take some work between the player and the GM, though.... 
 
> Karma, unlike Jericho, is just Mind Control, though.  You probably need 
> Continuous on it to be able to give different orders each phase, like you 
> said, which is a bit of a pain. 
 
You think that would work? I would also think that the MC would have to be 
successful at like the maximum level possible the first time to establish 
the possession. That might be a Limitation on the Power. 
  
Thanks. *Smiles* 
 
@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'- ******* -'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@ 
| "Every day is a new chapter." *****      C. Douglas Uptegraft       | 
|                                ***    s002cdu@discover.wright.edu   | 
| http://www.wright.edu/~s002cdu  *        OHMagick@hotmail.com       | 
@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'-----------'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:14:59 -0700 (PDT) 
From: miq@teleport.com 
Subject: Re: Combat Skill Level 
 
JayPHailey@aol.com says: 
>  
> <<      I was talking with one of my gamers last night, when he brought up a 
>  topic to me that I had been thinking of earlier in the day.  Can you purcahse 
> CSL's for ECV? >> 
>  
> JPH> As a GM I'd say yes, but at 8 points per level. 
>   
> BG>   Why at 8 points per level, when one can still get an 8-point level with 
> BG> All Combat that would still apply to ECV? 
>  
> Because It's so unusual and rare that it would tend to screw up my carefully 
> balanced mentalists.  So I am going to make you *pay*!!!! </crazy mode> 
>  
> But that's just it.  I shave half dice to give evil mentalists just the right 
> percentage of getting the effect on the usual PCs. If PCs start turning up 
> able to change thier own personal balances like that then it will have a 
> relatively big effect on my b'guys and games. 
 
This is your house rule, hardly canonical.  Just because it works in your 
campaign, doesn't make it universal. 
 
Aside:  were you the one that played Mental combat as being able to ignore 
the physical world--creating fantasy landscapes and whatnot while in the 
physical world the combatants were motionless (and thus DCV 0)?  If so, its 
not wonder you have a "mental block" (pun intended) to using all combat 
levels for either dcv or decv (or ocv or ecv for that matter) 
interchangably.  Of course being non standard, should mean that it doesn't 
necessarily apply to the rest of the world. 
 
 
 
 
- --  
__ 
Miq Millman   miq@teleport.com   
Tualatin, OR 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:16:27 -0700 
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com> 
Subject: Re: home grown 
 
Christopher Taylor wrote: 
 
> >So how many people on the list DO run or play in "published settings" rather 
> >than making it up yourself ?  Personally, I've always played 'home-grown' 
> >although with elements picked from Hero products, Marvel and DC. 
> 
> I use something similar, with enough differences to keep players on their 
> toes.  The full writeup isnt ready yet, but my house rules are at 
> 
> www.viser.net/~joelat/herostuf.htm 
 
    I looked at your house rules, and all I have to say is: DAMN! 
 
    I thought the trend in Hero System games of creating house rules that were 
basically a rewrite of the Hero System Rulebook was not as much of a wide-spread 
practice. But yours convinced me otherwise. 
 
    My own set of house rules are about as large. But I did nopt go to the depth 
and breadth you did. It seems that you have rulings on practically every power, 
skill, advantage, limitation, framework, and even most of the combat system. This 
is very extensive. Horrendously extensive. I have seen 3 cases where this level 
of exteniveness has actually been done. Mine, yours, and a case in the old days 
of Red October where someone actually literally rewrote the rulebook for their 
campaign. 
 
    This is personal opinion: Any game that takes this type of effort to actually 
make playable in a group setting has something severealy wrong with it. A GM 
should never have to go to these lengths to make a game system playable. 
 
    I make jokes constantly that my house rules could be a game supplement of its 
own. Well the joke is actually true. And jusdging from what I saw on your 
website, yours fall into that same catagory. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:55:46 -0500 (EST) 
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu> 
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions) 
 
On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Michael Nunn wrote: 
 
> When I created the Super team Rising Force for Herozine, I tried to go 
> against as many stereotypes as I could.  The team leader and Martial Artist, 
> 
<snippage> 
>  
> Eclectic?  you bet, diverse? you bet, the first letter I got about them said 
> "This bunch could never work together." 
>  
> What do you think? 
 
	There is something to be said about 'too much' diversity.  If your 
limiting the adventure to a certain geographic area where the character 
types are all drawn from said area, you mighty be delving into a problem 
dealing with the plausibility of said team ever existing with those 
'types.'  Also, even if all those types of people did exist within said 
geographic area (it could happen in a big metropolitan city), would they 
actually -want- to work together.  Differing personal philosophies dealing 
with evey thing from religion to government to how to deal with criminals 
could be dividing factors in a team.  Of course, if ths is a 'world 
spanning' campagin, if the characters are drawn together to fight a 
mysterious enemy, or something that effects each of their lives, you're 
giving them a unified purpose, in which case it would be mutally benefical 
to work as a team. 
 
	Just as a side note, putting in a buch of different flavors in a 
superhero sundae can be just as unrealistic as having cookie cutter 
flavors of the month.  There is somthing to be said for ambigious 
cultural identity, race, sexuality, and even gender.  In fact, if everyone 
has a 'label' it does less in defining them as individuals and more to 
make them into icons that people can harp on as an 'examplar' of <insert 
race here>. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:15:52 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: TK in the USA 
 
On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Sullivan wrote: 
 
> Two tedious TK things to take time thinking about (help me define these): 
>  
> 	There was a construct for TK in a previous edition that let you 
> 'animate' things, such as vines, rope, etc.  Can someone please help me 
> with the mechanics and the name of said construct? 
 
It was called "Animate Object" and was a -1/2 lim on your TK.  Basically 
it let you only use your TK to manipulate objects around you and you could 
only move an object up to your TK STR.  Thus, you could move ropes, or 
rugs or curtains or animate a chair or a lamp or something.  At really 
high levels you might be able to animate a car or an earthmover. 
  
> 	I don't have TU Mentalist, yet there is a power called 
> Psychokenesis that differs significantly from normal TK.  How,  
> mechanically, does it differ from normal TK and is it specifically only 
> meant for Mentalist campagins. 
 
Steve Long is on this list, if you direct your question to him directly 
(put his name in the header) he can answer this best. 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:45:42 -0500 
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: Automatons 
 
Jason Sullivan wrote: 
 
>         Automations need to be fixed between sessions.  Does any one have 
> any quick rules as to how you would restore BODY to a damaged Automaton? 
>         Could you have an Automaton that heals?  (An example being a 
> living bio-mech)  If so, how much would one need to pay for 'normal' 
> healing at the human rate. 
> 
>         When you combine an AI brain with an Automaton body, how do you 
> calculate DEX and SPD?  Do you buy them seperately?  Just purchase DEX and 
> SPD for the Automaton?  Use the lower/higher of the two? 
> 
 
Both the AI and the Automaton have to buy them.  It makes things easier when both 
the AI and the Automaton have the same dex and speed, but this is not required.  If 
they are different then the lower one is when actions occur.  I've got automatons, 
vehicles and bases with controlling AI's in my campaign where the AI has a higher 
dex then the equipment they are controlling.  This allows the AI to do things that 
are mental in nature when they are not using some physical power. 
 
This reminds me of a question I keep forgetting to ask.  In my campaign one of my 
house rules is that computers can be bought with the 5 point doubles the number of 
computers.  This is done to simulate a network of computers.  The big 
server/mainframe/AI being the base cost and all the workstations being paid for by 
the doubling rules.  MS based machines are disads to the networkd do to their 
inherent design flaws :).  Does anyone consider this an unreasonable house rule. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 16:23:40  
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: metal armour 
 
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:03:03 -0700 (PDT), Anthony Jackson wrote: 
 
>qts writes: 
>> >However...the metal only protects to the degree that it actually provides 
>> >a path to the ground (or wherever the electricity is going).  As such, if 
>> >you were wearing a chainmail vest and got hit by lightning, a significant 
>> >portion of the electricity would be transmitted by the vest -- until the 
>> >mail stopped, at which point the easiest path to the ground is probably 
>> >through your leg...  
>>  
>> Exactly. 
>>  
>> >The net effect is that metal armor should probably provide full defense 
>> >against electrical attacks (dealing with the ability of a shock to hit 
>> >multiple hit locations is probably not worth the effort); _however_, the 
>> >real disadvantage of metal armor against lightning is that metal armor will 
>> >make electrical attacks somewhat more likely to _hit_ you (figure -1 to -3 
>> >DCV).  
>>  
>> An interesting take. However, it still doesn't take into account 
>> metal's near-transparency to electricity. Yes, I might give them 1 DEF 
>> for the clothes underneath, but that helmet is in full contact with 
>> your skin... 
> 
>Ok, it's probably more accurate to say that metal armor gives 1 DEF _and_ 50% 
>damage reduction, rather than just providing DEF -- the primary way electricity 
>kills is by scrambling the central nervous system (stopping the heart, etc) and 
>chainmail will do a _fine_ job of protecting the torso from that effect.  
>Electrical burns to the legs aren't likely to kill you. 
> 
>As for 'transparency', metal _isn't_ transparent to electricity.  It conducts 
>it, which is completely different.  It is, in fact, almost completely opaque. 
 
OK, bad phrasing on my part for the general case, but if you pump in 
enough energy, it *does* become transparent to electricity (and light). 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 13:03:52  
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
 
On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 05:02:58 -0500 (EST), Jason Sullivan wrote: 
 
>On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, qts wrote: 
>> >Cannot Move In Phase When Power Is Used (-1/4) for especially cumbersome 
>> >spells where upon failure could result in a disasterous result. 
>>  
>> That's just Extra Time: Full Phase 
>	The character, if trying to make a half-move before using a power 
>with this Limitation, or taking KB or KD in the same Phase before he gets 
>to use his power, he should suffer substantial minuses to hit his target 
>(at least -3), and at the GM's option, may even be injured with his own 
>attack. 
 
Nope: if he gets hit, the spell fails to go off. If he can't move for 
the whole phase then he gets ET: Full Phase 
  
>> >Cannot Use Targeting With Spell (-1/2) for speels that are so complex, 
>> >their casting takes precidence over aiming. 
>>  
>> How is this actually a limitation? If it's an attack spell, you need to 
>> target it; if it isn't you don't. 
>	The character cannot "call shots" against hit locations or 
>otherwise try to hit one specific location or target. 
 
- -0 Limitation. 
 
>> >...and the ever popular Restrainable (-1/2) for spells that require 
>> >complex but easily restrainable somantic components. 
>> Oh no, that's plain Gestures. 
> 
>	Actually, for the cost, Restrainable is a much more cost efficent Lim. 
>Gestures indicates that you would need to make obvious gestures, the power 
>will not work if grabbed, the power will not turn on if attacked during 
>gesturing, -1/4 for turing on, or -1/2 for constant.  Restrainable is not 
>necessarily obvious, does noy work (normally) if grabbed or entangled, but 
>may be used if attacked.  Restrainable may also be used as part of the 
>attack roll, unlike Gestures. 
 
Restrainable isn't a standard limitation. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 08:14:42  
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
 
On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:54:55 -0500 (EST), Jason Sullivan wrote: 
 
>On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, qts wrote: 
><snip> 
> 
>> We have -0 if the effect can go off if the caster is restrained etc as 
>> above. 
> 
>> We can add Extra Time to take account of lengthy gestures/incantations. 
> 
>> We can add RSR or Concentration to take account of difficult 
>> gestures/incantations. 
> 
>> We can add Increased END to take account of energetic 
>> gestures/incantations. 
> 
>> Gestures are already 'clearly visible' (ie no PER roll required), so 
>> there shouldn't be any  extra bonus here. 
>> qts 
> 
>You might be able to add to this list: 
>All Unused Charges Are Lost (-1/4) for Continous spells, to represent the 
>energy invested in a spell is lost if the spell is interrupted. 
 
Nice one. 
 
>Cannot Move In Phase When Power Is Used (-1/4) for especially cumbersome 
>spells where upon failure could result in a disasterous result. 
 
That's just Extra Time: Full Phase 
 
>Cannot Use Targeting With Spell (-1/2) for speels that are so complex, 
>their casting takes precidence over aiming. 
 
How is this actually a limitation? If it's an attack spell, you need to 
target it; if it isn't you don't. 
 
>...and the ever popular Restrainable (-1/2) for spells that require 
>complex but easily restrainable somantic components. 
 
Oh no, that's plain Gestures. 
 
>Of course, you can model a number of negative spell casting techniques 
>with Disadvantages. 
> 
>	Accidental Change (when struck, distracted, grabbed, reatrained, 
>or entangled) from a Magic Using individual to a Non-Magic Using 
>individual to model a magican who can cast spells until his overall level 
>of concentration and 'inner tranquility' has been broken. 
 
Side Effects are a GM's best friend. But that's an interesting use of 
Accidental Change. 
 
 
 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 02:57:28 -0500 
From: Gypsy <klgeorge@mindspring.com> 
Subject: Re: Old Email showing up again from list 
 
Brian Wong wrote: 
>  
> Hello; 
>  
>         I'm I the only one who's getting all the list email from 
> October 16th resent to them? 
>  
> -- 
> Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{>< 
>  __  Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html 
> /.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html  Super Hero Links 
> \(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/              Super Hero RPG Site 
 
It gets worse. I've received over 400 messages, dates ranging from July 
something to present. 
 
- --  
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow. 
ICQ #3788510 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 18:46:33  
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations 
 
On Mon, 7 Sep 98 12:40:25 -0400, John P Weatherman wrote: 
 
>Jason Sullivan ravanos@njcu.edu 9/7/98 12:40 PM 
> 
>>On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, qts wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Restrainable isn't a standard limitation. 
>>	What makes it 'non-standard'? 
> 
>Restrainable isn't in the core rules but was added in  
>the system almanac (1 I think).  Many people don't  
>count those publications as cannon so it is legitimate 
>to argue that Restrainable isn't standard.  I get the  
>impression most people do use it however and that  
>gives rise to an interesting question. 
> 
>Restrainable just means that a grab or entangle can  
>disable an ability.  The clasic is wings that can't 
>be extended and/or are entangled.  This is rated as a 
>-1/2 limitation. 
 
Ah, I see. 
 
>  Now compare this to gestures,  
>particularly as represented in this thread.  Gestures 
>disable an ability due to any successful hit (much  
>easier than restrainables criteria) and are necessarily 
>very obvious which hinderable doesn't have to be (say  
>an internal weapon that has to be extended to work.   
>A grab stops the extention, hence hiderable, but the 
>extention doesn't have to be obvious to anyone in LoS). 
>That should mean that gestures is a much more limiting 
>hinderance, but it only provides 1/2 the benefit as a  
>-1/4 Limitation.   
> 
>Is it possible that gestures should be upgraded to 1/2 and 
>then allow it to cover the "non-standard" restrainable 
>limitation as well?  Or does restrainable need to be  
>downgraded to 1/4 and used with Visible, an additional -1/4, 
>to represent wings that are quite obvious when used, current 
>gestures then becomming Visible & Restrainable by default? 
 
I think I'd go along with this, but perhaps more appropriate would be 
making Restrainable a Superheroic Limitation only, just as Gestures and 
Incantations are Heroic Limitations. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:28:38 PST 
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Re: something odder 
 
>Hmm.  Well, I know not everyone likes Aaron Allston's work on Ninja  
Hero, 
>but I believe he did just this - there was a sorceror who could turn 
>normal people into super-powered martial artists, and if I remember  
right 
>he did it using Transform.  So it would seem that the 'no point  
increase' 
>has been removed from the official rules and relegated to the arena of 
>GM's discretion. 
 
Ahh, yes.  The Super-Boxers.  I remember that guy.  I think he may well  
have been the inspiration for the Guiding Hand, from Daedalus' Feng Shui  
RPG.  I read the description and said, "Wow.  That's kinda neat.  I  
might use him in a campaign once.  Or even twice if the campaign went on  
for several years."  There's a villain in Fantasy Hero who does a  
similar thing, turning villagers into demons.  It's in one of the sample  
adventures.  Again, a fun one-shot menace.   
 
Still, I wouldn't want to do it too often, as it would inevitably lead  
to arguments with your players.  "We're tired of getting beaten up by a  
50-point villain!", "We're sick of fighting innocent bystanders who've  
been turned into brainwashed villain-zombies!", "We want to do it, too!" 
 
I guess I'm of the school that I prefer not to have my villains do  
things I won't let my players do.  It's one thing to have Galactus  
running around creating heralds, 'cause everyone knows that Galactus is  
a badass.  But, like the Thanatic Rod from Mystic Masters, the Galactus  
effect really should be a plot device, and not something the players can  
dream of creating/using.  Unless you're into that sort of thing, of  
course.  Personally, I get really sick of Marvel's penchant for "immense  
cosmic threats" that wind up getting resolved, MacGyver-like, with a  
rubber band, some tin foil, and a rousing speech from Captain America.   
Don't even get me started on Phoenix... 
 
Jesse Thomas 
 
haerandir@hotmail.com   
 
> 
 
______________________________________________________ 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:39:43 -0500 
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: Star Trek Campaigns (was Re: Howdy!) 
 
Lockie wrote: 
 
> ---------- 
> > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
> > To: 
> > Cc: Champions List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
> > Subject: Re: Star Trek Campaigns (was Re: Howdy!) 
> > Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, B.C. Holmes wrote: 
> > 
> > >     I also ended up converting my FASA Star Trek campaign to Hero, so I 
> had 
> > > a bit of trouble with some of these skills: 
> > > Starship Tactics (as a different skill than Small Unit Tactics) 
> > 
> > Yes. 
> > 
> 
> alright, here's a constructive point- would you starship battle people 
> allow the captain (or tactical officer, or AI) of a ship to take find 
> weakness with capital ship weapons? 
> what about danger sence-'during starship combat'? i have a super-admiral 
> character with both of these, does this sound valid? or is it an issue 
> batter dealt with by aplication of skils like tactics? 
 
Yes.  If the gunner/AI/computer have find weakness and the ship has also paid 
for the ability/lab, then it can be done.  If the gunner is using computer 
assistance to fire the weapons then all three must have the skill.  In short 
any entity that is involved with targetting and firing the weapon must have 
paid for the ability.  This is also reflected in my campaign in the fac that 
anyone who has find weakness must have paid hero points for the attack that 
they are using the find weakness with, ie you can't have find weakness with a 
gun unless you have paid hero points for the gun.  In short you cant use weapon 
familiarities with find weakness. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:10:57 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Re: Blade 
 
At 03:06 PM 8/29/98 -0500, Donald Tsang wrote: 
>><<Has anyone done a write up of the movie verions of Blade? >> 
>> 
>>If they have, I want to see them!!!    
> 
>Just wondering, but... why? 
> 
>His powers seem thoroughly uninteresting. 
>High Dex and Spd, Medium Str, good Con and Pre (and Com, except for his 
>stupid haircut).  Martial arts.  Weapons.  Vehicle.  Superleap.  OIF armor 
>(not very good activation, or not very good against silver stakes). 
>KS:Vampires.  A couple of followers, perhaps.  Dependency on "serum" 
>(dmg = transform).  DF: BMF.  Hunted: vampires on sight.  Many Psych lims. 
> 
>Buy to a certain scale (275 seems about right).  Chill, serves 6. 
> 
> 
>  Donald 
> 
> 
 
ALso some slow regeneration as it was stated his wounds from being staked 
would be healed by the next day. High level Acrobatics and Breakfalls 
skills, Defense manuver. I'd put his strength at high human, bordering on 
superhuman. He did chuck that doctor a pretty good way and grabbed a 
speeding subway train wiithout getting his arm torn off. Actually I'd put 
all the physical stats high. I'd say some enhanced senses or a perception 
boost. Other skills demonstrated or implied would be stealth, concealment, 
combat driving, wfs, Streetwise, interogation among others. The KS Vampires 
could be fleshout if you wanted more detail. Lang:Russian and  1 pt with 
Vampire Tongue, not literate. I got the impression his abilites improved 
after drinking human blood but that might have been dramatic licence and 
anger (IE:He was pushing alot.)   
 
 
As to way I'd like to see them is sheer curiosity. I'd like to see how well 
the character comes across in translation. Besides, if I can get the write 
up someone did of Buffy the Vamprire slayer, think of the cross over 
possbilities! :)  
 
 
 
I know violence doesn't solve all problems... 
	But it sure feels good! 
		Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior 
 
------------------------------ 
 
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Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 02:54 PM