Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 314
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 1:33 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #314
champ-l-digest Tuesday, May 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 314
In this issue:
CHAR: Purple Worm
Re: Duplication and Multiform
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: CHAR: Purple Worm
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: Cumulative effect question
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: Cumulative effect question
Re: Duplication and Multiform
Re: TK Stuff (fwd)
Re: Cumulative effect question
CHAR: Purple Worm (fwd)
Re: AVLD
Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
Re: Power Construct: Bow
Re: CHAR: Purple Worm (fwd)
RE: Cumulative effect question
Communications Down During System Upgrade
Re: Cumulative effect question
RE: Cumulative effect question
Lady Archer Power Construct
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:18:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Purple Worm
PURPLE WORM
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
45 STR 0 18- 12.8 tons; 9d6
10 DEX 0 11- OCV: 3 / DCV: 3
30 CON 40 15-
20 BODY 6 13-
1 INT -9 9- PER Roll 9-
3 EGO -14 10- ECV: 1
30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
0 COM -5 9-
14 PD 12 Total: 16 PD / 2 PDr
9 ED 3 Total: 11 ED / 2 EDr
2 SPD 0 Phases: 6, 12
8 REC 0
60 END 0
40 STUN 0
Total Characteristics Cost: 81
Movement: Running: 6" / 12"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Tunneling: 3" / 6"
Cost Powers & Skills
Purple Worm Powers:
47 Giant Size: Growth: 7 Levels, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2),
Always On (-1/2)
+35 STR, +7 BODY, +7 STUN, -4 DCV, +4 to PER vs, +2" Reach, -7" KB
80 Bite: HKA: 2 1/2d6 (4 1/2d6 with STR), AoE: One Hex (+1/2),
0 END (+1/2)
22 Stinger: HKA: 1d6 (2d6 with STR), 0 END (+1/2)
84 Stinger: RKA: 4d6 RKA, NND: Defense is Immunity, Alien Metabolism
or Anti-venom (+2), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2), Only vs Living
Beings (Animals) (-1/2), Stinger Must do BODY Damage (-1/2)
6 Thick Hide: Armor: 2 DEF
20 Great Size: Damage Reduction: 1/2, Energy, Stun Only (-1/2)
20 Great Size: Damage Reduction: 1/2, Physical, Stun Only (-1/2)
18 Burrowing: Tunneling: 3", DEF 4, END 1
30 Sense Vibrations: Detect: Vibrations, Sense, Ranged, 360 degree,
14-
5 Heat Vision: IR Vision
332 Total Powers & Skills Cost
413 Total Character Cost
75+ Disadvantages
20 Distinctive Features: Gigantic purplish worm (NC)
Physical Limitation:
10 Cannot leap
15 No fine manipulation
15 Psychological Limitation: Always hungry (C, S)
278 Experience
413 Total Disadvantage Points
Appearance:
A purple worm is an immense (50' long or more) worm that is -as it's name
implies - a dark purple color. Their mouths is a gaping maw filled with
many sharp teeth, while their long tails end in a large stinger. Although
not very intelligent, they are very hungry, and hence can be very
dangerous.
Ecology:
Purple worms are subterranean creatures. They burrow through the ground
devouring anything organic they can find, and leaving tunnels 3-6' in
diameter. When the worm returns to it's lair, it will them purge itself
of anything inorganic it may have eaten, such as mineral deposits. In
such a lair - which is usually a fairly large cavern dug out of the
surrounding earth, one can often find up to a dozen eggs, or immature
worms ranging in size from 5' long to over 20 feet. Worm lairs are often
raided by umber hulks, who prize the tender young as food.
Motivations:
Normal animal motivations. The intelligence of a purple worm is virtually
nonexistent and they are driven only by the desire to feed and propagate
the species.
Combat Techniques:
A purple worm will attack by biting, it's large mouth more than enough to
swallow a small target whole. If given enough room, it will bring it's
stinger into action, striking at the largest (or most annoying) target
first. In wounded or heavily out numbered, a purple worm will try to flee
by burrowing.
Other Names: Dhole, Earth Worm, Mottled Worm, Sand Worm
Rumors:
There are rumors of sand-dwelling worms that reach almost unimaginable
lengths. Stories have also been told of worms that grow so large as to
riddle an entire world with their tunnels.
Designer's Notes:
The purple worm is a fairly simple creature, at least with regards with
what it can do. Like many AD&D creatures, it can swallow a target whole,
a power I didn't try to define here. The main reason why was I didn't
really have a solid idea of how to define the power (Entangle?) and I
didn't feel it as totally needed. Naturally Game Masters should feel free
to further customize this creature as they see fit.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Duplication and Multiform
On Tue, 4 May 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> OK so you dont find any need to demonstrate your premise, I guess I'll let
> that go. I just would like to understand why you think it is allowable and
> not unbalancing for someone to make a 'multiform' character with shapeshift
> and a power pool (for example) and yet it is so to use multipower to do
> this. You don't have a problem with someone making the power by bypassing
> the power in the book intended for this (read the definition again, I'm
> sorry you don't want to agree that is what it is there for, but it quite
> simply WAS the intent of the authors to make a power that allowed you to
> have different forms with different abilities, there isn't any limit on the
> number of forms other than cost, which at this point in the rules is far
> too expensive to allow more than 2 or 3. This does not mean that this was
> their intent from the beginning, rather that the cost prohibits it). You
> just seem to dislike the idea of someone using MULTIFORM to do this, which
> seems oddly inconsistent.
>
> You still have yet to show me in the rules how it was never intended for
> that. Its not possible to do that undermost cost limitations, but nowhere
> can you demonstrate that wasn't the intent. Clearly the intent of the
> power was to allow you to build characters that had several diverse forms,
> one at a time. I cannot conceive how you come up with the idea that this
> was intended to be limited to a small number. The only reason it tends to
> be is that campaigns don't give out 1500 points to build a character with.
> This is a cost issue, not a concept issue for the power. You dont mind
> people building that power bypassing multiform, so it clearly isnt a power
> level issue either.
As far as multiform vs. shapeshift/vpp linked, I take it this way:
Example 1: Bobby Buttons can change shape from a gawky teenager into
Captain Cornhusker, The Mightiest Man in Nebraska! While
technically he's changing shape, Bob keeps all of the skills
and knowlegde he has as a teenager, his physical stats increase
markedly.
How do we do this? Shapeshift? Multiform? No! It's obviously
an OIHID situation, and a classic example of the genre.
Example 2: Todd the Werewolf has two forms, one is a rather confused
accountant, and the other, a vicious, slavering beast.
Under the influence of the full moon, Todd becomes the
hideous wolf-monster, and loses a good deal of his intelligence
and skills in the process.
This one is a clear multiform. The two forms are quite
distinct, and have entirely different and exclusive abilities.
Example 3: xPlmw, the thing from outer space, is an alien being with
a remarkable capacity for mimicry. It can change shape into
any animal it's had a chance to study, but keeps its own mind
throughout, and gains no new skills, although it has full
use of whatever body parts/natural weapons the creature its's
mimicking has.
Obviously it would be far too expensive to build "any animal"
using multiform, but the character doesn't actually change into
a particular instance of a given animal type, but more mimics
the type. I'd do this with shapeshift linked to a VPP (and this
will get quite expensive enough, given that you have to buy it
down to 0 END to keep the shape changed for any amount of time.
Essentially, if the change is really significant and involves a complete
change in powers, skills, stats, and possibly even personality, I'd go
with the multiform. If the change is just the sfx of being able to do
lots of different stuff, go with the shapeshift/vpp.
Again, look at the results you want, Hero is effect-based, and there's
almost always more than one way to simulate a power.
- -Ben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 02:37:13 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
To: happyelf <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Cc: Hero List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
>
>
>happyelf wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
>> To: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
>> Cc: Hero List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 11:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
>>
>> >Thank you Bill... I've pretty much given up on this argument, you and I
>> seem to
>> >be agreeing
>> >entirely something I usually consider a good sign ;) Some people
>> > seem to want to tow the party line... with regards to INT ,
>> >
>> >Yes there are no real world indications that people think faster as
they
>> age or
>> >even anything in our Comic Book Mythology to impy this either. There is
>> >indications in the real world that they gain more knowlege but think
slower
>> ;)
>> >and become crystalized less adaptable in their understandings.
>> >
>>
>
>Excuse me but I didnt make up the ideas of fluid and crystalized thinking
its
>common psychology
>
what disipline? here i was thinking psyc was my area of study.
>> Nope. Intelect is a type of skilll, and skill is specialised.
>
>Skill is not specialized, I can accomplish the same or strikingly similar
result
>by many routes using different skills,
no, you can acomplish reults in an abstract sense. but the skills used
are each specialised, even if they are part of of a concept. There are
many ways to kill someone, but each is their own skill.
>and intellect is so more broad or general
>than any other definition what are you talking about?
>
erm, what are you talking about? that didn't make much sense.
Intellect is not broad. The her stat intelligence may be, but it's
not real. G.e. has yet to be genuinly substantiated in the real world.
>>
>> Skill in a given area rarely crosses over to another area, BUT
>> skill in a given area very very rarely or NEVER results in a
>> limitation or impedement of skills in other areas
>
>Becoming set in ones ways is a frequently developed personality trait in
human
>beings over time
>and impedes learning to do things in new ways.
>
That's got nothing to do with what they learn in terms of
task expertese. it's a state of mind. And it's a subjective
deffinition.
>Picture this mind set:
>It is the old "I can bust down that door in two seconds why in hell would I
>spend 8 months learning how to spend ten minutes picking the damn lock"...
"I
>know there are advantages to the new method (stealth etc)
>its just they are so subtle and not right in my face and don't match well
with
>the definition of who I am which I spent 30 years developing, and is it
really
>worth spending the 8 months?. And the person may be subconciously doing
some of
>this not really trying to learn because they don't really want to and give
up
>frustrated after 2 months even though they think they "want to learn to
pick
>locks" and they are intelligent and dextrous enough but learning it really
does
>involve a subtle change in their outlook they deep down dont really want to
give
>up.
>
Well done. is this a case study? Or just your opinion?
>See where this is coming from the existing SKILLS do not directly impede
other
>skills. Its more like they decrease the percieved cost effectiveness of new
>skills because they do indeed overlap for achieving many goals, in this
case
>getting to the other side of that damned locked door.
>
That would only occur based on the persons state of mind, and many people
would not be so resistant to change. In particular certain fields
have in the last few years made a clear move from a 'conventional wisdom'
point of view to a regimine of constant re-traning and skill assesment.
>>You can argue that an academic
>>is less skilled in day-to-day matters due to his life experience,
>>but claiming his academic skills impede his other functions is baseless.
>
>Sorry I wasn't arguing this? In this instance we were discussing the
affects of
>aging and how in HERO the aging rules accelerate your max INT (as in Mental
>Quickness and Perception) and this does not correspond to anything
noticeable in
>real life or the Myth.
>
Which myth? And in any event it does. As i said, these stats are actually
conglomerations of skill sets. An older person who remains mentally active
in say,
a fantasy campaign, may very well be more perceptive.
>Unless INT also represents broad general knowledge which allows cross over
and
>application of general principles to the new area of learning , which is
what
>you were arguing I think (DIE in the WOOL definition lovers can't agree
with
>this) and I think we agree?
>
>Does that explain it better
i suppose it'll have to do.
>
>Lance
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:34:28 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Purple Worm
At 12:18 PM 5/4/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Designer's Notes:
>The purple worm is a fairly simple creature, at least with regards with
>what it can do. Like many AD&D creatures, it can swallow a target whole,
>a power I didn't try to define here. The main reason why was I didn't
>really have a solid idea of how to define the power (Entangle?) and I
>didn't feel it as totally needed.
This is a problem I've wrestled with before. I prefer to do this sort of
thing with the Grab maneuver, tossing in advantages on STR as necessary.
For the Purple Worm, perhaps an Area Effect on STR, only for Grab would get
the basic effect. But then we also have to work out the effects of a
character attacking from inside the digestive tract - perhaps a Physical
Limitation: Reduced Defenses vs. Grabbed Characters?
Another even weirder way to do this might be to define the digestive tract
as an Extra Limb.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 02:44:37 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
>> >
>> >This would portray fluid thinking becoming crystaline thinking rather
well.
>> >
>>
>> it's just a pity there's no such thing as 'fluid thinking' or 'crystaline
>> thinking'.
>> (in my hho. In psycs' hho, too.)
>>
>
>Its a valid concept according to the Psychology I read.. ofcourse that was
10
>years ago or
>more. I answered this with an example of "being set in ones ways: mind set"
in
>another post
>
I see.
>>
>> no. . children have yet the mental faculties to fully understand the
>> nature of the self and others.
>
>OOOPs I was being poorly inspecific in my definitions.. and being an old
cooot
>I wasnt thinking of children as children.....just young folk
>
riight. . .like greyhaired conservatives aren't legendarily arrogant, to the
point where they accuse people of egotism for not following their status
quo.
>> These faculties develop over time,
>> as clearly shown by current developmental and life-span studies.
>> This is partly why teenagers are so painfull aware of other people
>> being aware of an percieving them- it's a relativly new process.
>
>Arrogance as a responsive behavior often in retalitory reaction to
>that excessive awareness of how you are percieved by others,
>sometimes the behavior gets reinforced because it works.
>
or. . . the beginnings of assertive behaviour,
characterised as arrogance by peple who are used to
calling the shots in the household.
>Rebellious teens who claim to know everything... (I remember knowing
>everything around age 15) seems to represent egotistical behavior
>by classic definitions.
>
Whoose more arrogant- somebody who 'claims to know everything'
(read: have opinions, heaven forfend) when they're young and inexperienced,
or people whove been through life and STILL insist they're the best source
of 'truth' (albeit wiht the obligitory 'i'm nto saying i know everything'
type statements).
Anyone can roast the other team. You'll pardon me if i cherish the middle
ground.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 02:47:57 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
make the storm an entity of it's own, and give all the creatures aids?
better yet, just allow them to combine their efforts
ae and tk wise.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 11:48 PM
Subject: Cumulative effect question
>Okay, I'm working on an idea for a creature that summon storms. The trick
>is, the more creatures you have, the more powerful the storm can be.
>So... obviously the storm itself is a mixture of Telekinesis and Change
>Environment (representing wind and rain), but how would I build the
>increased intensity effect?
>
>Do I buy the whole power and then apply a lim that you get so many active
>points per creature, or do I but a base amount of power and then add in an
>Aid (with a massive top end) that is used to pump up the power?
>
>Suggestions welcome.
>
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
>Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
> many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
>Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
>
>_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:41:47 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
At 02:37 AM 5/5/99 +1000, happyelf wrote:
>From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
>>
>>Excuse me but I didnt make up the ideas of fluid and crystalized thinking
>its
>>common psychology
>>
>
>what disipline? here i was thinking psyc was my area of study.
>
I believe this is a component of developmental psychologist Jean Piaget's
theories.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
On Wed, 5 May 1999, happyelf wrote:
> make the storm an entity of it's own, and give all the creatures aids?
> better yet, just allow them to combine their efforts
> ae and tk wise.
The storm is not it's own entity, it is something created by someone else.
Besides, how do your write up a storm as a character? Also, combine TK
and AoE is fine, but how do I do that according to the rules? Two guys
with 6d6 EBs can't combine to make one 12d6 EB.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:03:03 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Duplication and Multiform
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> You don't have a problem with someone making the power by bypassing
>the power in the book intended for this (read the definition again, I'm
>sorry you don't want to agree that is what it is there for, but it quite
>simply WAS the intent of the authors to make a power that allowed you to
>have different forms with different abilities, there isn't any limit on the
>number of forms other than cost, which at this point in the rules is far
>too expensive to allow more than 2 or 3. This does not mean that this was
>their intent from the beginning, rather that the cost prohibits it).
That's like asying the intent of followers is to control the earth's
population.
There's no maxmimum to the number of followers. I't's posible, but the cost
prohibits it?
yes, because it's a very powerful ability.
>You
>just seem to dislike the idea of someone using MULTIFORM to do this, which
>seems oddly inconsistent.
>
Not if you grasp the entire POINT of this game. An energy blast is not
nesecarily a blast of energy. Many killing attacks do not sucessfully kill.
Teleport is not an alchaholic beverage that doublee as a phone.
>>Only when you're using it for something it was never intended for.
>
>You still have yet to show me in the rules how it was never intended for
>that.
Compromise- both options are valid. But neither can be reformed based soley
on a parties refusal to accept the other option as possible.
>Its not possible to do that undermost cost limitations, but nowhere
>can you demonstrate that wasn't the intent. Clearly the intent of the
>power was to allow you to build characters that had several diverse forms,
>one at a time.
and like all powers, that effect is limited by the points available.
>I cannot conceive how you come up with the idea that this
>was intended to be limited to a small number. The only reason it tends to
>be is that campaigns don't give out 1500 points to build a character with.
>This is a cost issue, not a concept issue for the power. You dont mind
>people building that power bypassing multiform, so it clearly isnt a power
>level issue either.
>
yes it is! a vpp/shapeshift is far mroe limted than a distinct character.
multiform c's can have an immense amount of points total.
>>Yes. He could easily deal out many times the damage the equivelent energy
>>projector could, at compareable accuracy.
>
>Ah he had more damage dice? Or he had multiple attacks (like, say
>autofire... for example?)
>
look, the more guys you have, the weaker they have. You can't have a whole
team
in one c with the same points as a comparable c. That isn't fair.
>Unless they pay the points to be able to do such a thing with, say,
>autofire, or area effect. Are those grossly overpowered? Agents would
>drop his underdefensed self in a hurry, unless you misrepresented his
>defenses.
yes, after all, he's a wimp. sorry, but if you want a mass-dupe
or mass-multi with the powers of a 250pt character, you need a game with
higher point totals. OR, you can take advantage of the powers.
A team of dupes can kick ass, if their player thinks a bit.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:09:17 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: TK Stuff (fwd)
- -----Original Message-----
From: AndMat3@aol.com <AndMat3@aol.com>
To: jeffj@io.com <jeffj@io.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: TK Stuff (fwd)
>In a message dated 5/4/99 9:36:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jeffj@io.com
>writes:
>
>> Which is true in 4th Edition - it's only for attack powers. NND Running,
>> for example, is meaningless. But NND Flash and Drain are certainly
>> logical constructs, and I'll be disappointed if they're not officially
>> allowed in the new addition.
>>
>> Example: Master Lee the martial artist can deliver a nerve strike that
>> causes the victim's vision to black out. It's not delivered to the
eyes,
>> so any kind of normal Flash Defense (polarized goggles, for example)
isn't
>> going to help. Master Lee should buy an NND Flash vs Sight, requires a
>> Physiology roll, no range, with the defense being rigid protection over
>> the appropriate nerve endings.
>
>I totally agree with Flash... but problems arise with powers like Entangle.
>20points of entangle can place any villain (or hero or whoever) in limbo
>forever... or until Mr. Plotz Device comes by.
>
>andy
>
ge.e. . so much for any entagle power sfx that isn't based on strength
and damage. . .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:05:03 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
At 12:48 PM 5/4/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Wed, 5 May 1999, happyelf wrote:
>
>> make the storm an entity of it's own, and give all the creatures aids?
>> better yet, just allow them to combine their efforts
>> ae and tk wise.
>
>The storm is not it's own entity, it is something created by someone else.
>Besides, how do your write up a storm as a character? Also, combine TK
>and AoE is fine, but how do I do that according to the rules? Two guys
>with 6d6 EBs can't combine to make one 12d6 EB.
>
This probably isn't how I'd handle your situation, but I had to respond to
this as I recently created a sentient cloud group mind as a villain. It's a
pretty complicated character, but essentially I constructed the entity
("Cumulus") as a large group of Always-On Desolid characters with
stretching (to cover multiple hexes) and Mind Link with one another.
Cumulus also has (have?) a cumulative Transform attack to create servant
drones. Each unit can only do a few pips, but get a thousand of them
together and they can create an army.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: CHAR: Purple Worm (fwd)
>Designer's Notes:
>The purple worm is a fairly simple creature, at least with regards with
>what it can do. Like many AD&D creatures, it can swallow a target whole,
>a power I didn't try to define here. The main reason why was I didn't
>really have a solid idea of how to define the power (Entangle?) and I
>didn't feel it as totally needed. Naturally Game Masters should feel
>free to further customize this creature as they see fit.
The HERO Beastiary covers the swallowing thing with a self
Entangle.
M.S., didn't you have an eat/swallow mechanic on your home page
under Beowulf's "Grendel"?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:13:38 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: AVLD
>> (As an aside, it would be nice if you could buy AVLD at different levels
>> depending on the commonality of the defense...)
>
>I'd like to second that idea!
Id like to strongly and heartily third that idea. Consider AVLD as
compared to vs ECV. Vs ECV ignores all defenses except mental defense, and
optionally has LOS rather than range, costing +1 advantage. Now AVLD costs
+1 1/2, and hmmm, it seems to me it ignores all defenses except mental (if
you chose that defense) and doesnt give you LOS, and costs more, there is a
problem here eh?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:24:16 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
To: Hero List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: The Acceptance of Powergaming (was re RE:Darth Vader)
>At 02:37 AM 5/5/99 +1000, happyelf wrote:
>
>>From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
>>>
>>>Excuse me but I didnt make up the ideas of fluid and crystalized thinking
>>its
>>>common psychology
>>>
>>
>>what disipline? here i was thinking psyc was my area of study.
>>
>
>I believe this is a component of developmental psychologist Jean Piaget's
>theories.
>
>- Bill Svitavsky
>
>
*cough* oh i see. Well, as log as you guys don't start talking about
castration complexes and reinforcement schedules I suppose i can bear
a little erm, 'nostalgia'.
(that is unless somebody wants to suggest alternative settings
where old psyc theories are true, which would make for some pretty
wierd rping. Example of this is the super-behavoiuralist somebody
suggested a while back)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:19:26 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Darth Vader (fini?)
<< suming that Vader's costume gives him any powers at all? All
of Vader's 'powers' come from either the Force (not affected by the suit
and not removable) or his cybernetic body >>
>The suit IS his cybernetic body. Which makes it non-removable, IMO. which
makes it impossable to get Dependency points for.
The suit is his body, but the make with life support should give him a
dependency on the mask. I wouldn't make it a focus though.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:14:07 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: Bow
>> The reason I made it HKA is so the weapon can be used at 0 Range in hand
to hand combat to stab... and the reduced STR (from not using the bow)
causes less damage.>>
>can't you use a RKA at no range... like a gun at point blank? and you would
not get ANY str when using it at this (or any) range.>
I believe the idea is that a strong person can stab with greater amounts of
force than a weaker person, thus using the HKA over the RKA, which is a
fixed damage amount.
I have used HKA at range to represent someone who can throw or stab with
knives.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:22:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Purple Worm (fwd)
On Tue, 4 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >Designer's Notes:
> >The purple worm is a fairly simple creature, at least with regards with
> >what it can do. Like many AD&D creatures, it can swallow a target whole,
> >a power I didn't try to define here. The main reason why was I didn't
> >really have a solid idea of how to define the power (Entangle?) and I
> >didn't feel it as totally needed. Naturally Game Masters should feel
> >free to further customize this creature as they see fit.
>
> The HERO Beastiary covers the swallowing thing with a self
> Entangle.
Guess I'll have to rered my Bestiary.
> M.S., didn't you have an eat/swallow mechanic on your home page
> under Beowulf's "Grendel"?
Yeah, it was a 6d6 HKA, Must follow grab. Grendel didn't swallow anyone
whole, he ate them.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:25:01 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Cumulative effect question
I think the easiest way to do this is with Usable by Others. This way, you
would almost have a geometric increase in storm violence with new people.
Check it out.
Here's the base power...
15 TK STR 10 [Explosion +1/2] [only 'round n' 'round -1/2]
10 Change Env. dark and stormy [1 hex]
Then you add the cumulative element...
25 +10 STR to TK [Explosion +1/2; UBO - many others +1*][only 'round n'
'round -1/2]
20 X4 radius to Change Env. [UBO - many others +1*]
So, on your own, you can make a little 1hex thunder cloud with a STR10 wind.
When your buddy shows up, you both do a 4hex radius cloud with a STR 20
wind, when the third guy shows up, each of you do a 16hex radius cloud with
a 30STR wind and when your whole posse show up, you're sinking ships and
sending farm girls to Oz.
*I don't have my BBB here at work so forgive me if the numbers aren't
precise.
Tah dah!
] The storm is not it's own entity, it is something created by
] someone else.
] Besides, how do your write up a storm as a character? Also,
] combine TK
] and AoE is fine, but how do I do that according to the rules?
] Two guys
] with 6d6 EBs can't combine to make one 12d6 EB.
]
] --
] Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
] http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
]
] Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades.
] Now, I have
] many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
] Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
]
] _Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:23:21 EDT
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: Communications Down During System Upgrade
Gold Rush Games is currently upgrading its computer system to fix a
technical problem and as a preventive measure against potential future
problems. During this upgrade we will be experiencing a brief interruption in
our telephone communications system, which is integrated in our computer
system.
During this period, callers will be unable to access our voicemail system
or place telephone orders. We will still have access to e-mail (via a
different computer), so customers can still contact us by e-mail in the
meantime.
We expect this upgrade to be completed Wednesday evening (May 5th) and our
communications system should be operating normally again by the morning of
Thursday (May 6th).
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our customers and we
appreciate your patience as we complete the upgrade.
Mark Arsenault
President
Gold Rush Games
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:35:08 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
>On Wed, 5 May 1999, happyelf wrote:
>
>> make the storm an entity of it's own, and give all the creatures aids?
>> better yet, just allow them to combine their efforts
>> ae and tk wise.
>
>The storm is not it's own entity, it is something created by someone else.
like say, an android? ok serious example, like a missile?
Sometimes a power gets so big that it needs a character
sheet. Examples include a huge sucking void
(summonm: sucking void) or an annoying genre convention
that makes sure 'lil billy never seems to get killed
(desolid invisible ultra-shrunk entity with tk, missle deflection, ect.)
>Besides, how do your write up a storm as a character?
it's not a c, it's a sort of automaton. All it is in terms
of sfx is a storm, but it has a character sheet, with
a standard 'nonentity' power set (invisible, automaton,
desolid, really small maybe, ect, ect, ect)
as well as the storm powers.
this would also allow the storm to 'do stuff' without the creatures
having to concentrate, if that was the intent.
It's a wierd idea,
but i've used it once or twice for things like
this. So yeah, if the pc's fire a really wide-burst
effects desolid at the sky they might 'kill' it, and there
are other problems with making a phenomena a character,
but it is a possibility for hard to model 'background'
effects like this. Also, if the pc's aren't going to
do anything like that, what does it matter wether
it's a character of a power? it would make it easier
to manage things.
>Also, combine TK
>and AoE is fine, but how do I do that according to the rules? Two guys
>with 6d6 EBs can't combine to make one 12d6 EB.
>
well, tk is easy- two tk-ers can help each other lift, right?
So based on how the storm effects things, different animals
should be able to help with the 'storm effort' pretty easily,
in whatever way a single creature would.
the Problem is the ae, which has a radius in the power description.
Perhaps you coudl model it on AE;any, which costs more i think,
but gives the creatures the ability to mesh their field of effect.
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
>Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
> many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
>Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
>
>_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:30:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: Cumulative effect question
On Tue, 4 May 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> I think the easiest way to do this is with Usable by Others. This way, you
> would almost have a geometric increase in storm violence with new people.
> Check it out.
<snip>
> Tah dah!
I'm diggin' that design! It might be just waht I'm looking for! Thanks!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Elric: "Not long since, I counted myself without comrades. Now, I have
many. For that reason alone I will fight beside them!"
Erekose: "That is, perhaps, the best of reasons."
_Elric: Sailor on the Seas of Fate_, Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:32:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Lady Archer Power Construct
I decided to use the normal RKA instead of the STR/HKA w/ range construct.
Below are constructs. Slots 1 and 2 I took almost directly from Dark
Champions's character Crossbow. (Does anyone know if Steve Long, the
Author, created all of the characters in the book? If so, I'd like to
credit him.) Slot 6 is almost directly taken from the Tombstone Kid in
the Champions book. Slots 3 and 4 are exclusively attack powers. In
campaigns where RKA can not be bounced, slot 4 should be replaced with 3d6
EB instead of the RKA. Slot 5 is used to represent the "arrow hitting the
incoming object." I was thinking this could be done as a TK block... but
Missile Reflection does this pretty well. Slot five is still a little
"thin", falling below the 60 point AC maximum.
New shots are fairly easy, and cheap, to learn... with a maximum of
60 AC and a max ultra-slot cost of 6.
60 point Archery Skill Multipower, 8 Recoverable Charges (0), OAF
(-1)
1) "Arrow Meets Gun Barrel"
6u 15d6 Dispel (3), any firearm (+1/4); OAF (-1)
2) "Pinning Shot"
6u 2d6 Entangle (10), Takes no Damage (+1/2), Backlash (+1/2,
Backlash damage is the same as Linked RKA); OAF (-1), Only works when
target is near a wall or other large, sturdy object (-1/2), Victim may
still be able to use some Accessible Foci (-1/4), Cannot create "walls"
(-1/4);
1d6+1 RKA; Linked (-1/2)
3) "Maximum Pull Shot"
6u 4d6 RKA
4) "Various Accuracy, Skill, and Trick Shots"
6u 1d6 RKA, Variable Advantage: +2, (+3)
Any number of combinations are possible with the Variable
Advantage, within reason.
5) "Intercepting Shot"
6u Missile Deflection (10), thrown, arrows or projectiles, Ranged
(+1); One attack per charge Only (?)
Reflect certain SFX (thrown items such as gas canisters, grenades,
and bombs... not arrows, knives, axes, etc. need Limitation appropriate
for this)
6) "Disarming and Skill Shot"
6u TK (15, +2/3), Fine Manipulation (+10), Useable only
for knocking things over and knocking weapons out of hands (-1)
Can TK be used to represent anything else with a bow an arrow
aside from knocking things over and knocking weapons out of hands?
Any comments or additional contributions would be appreciated.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #314
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