Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 324
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 8:05 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #324
champ-l-digest Friday, May 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 324
In this issue:
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Superman weaknesses
Re: How hot is hot?
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Superman tecnicolor
Re: Superman weaknesses
Classic Super Team
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: Superman weaknesses
RE: Stroms - hurricanes
Re: How hot is hot?
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Classic Super Team
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
RE: Elementals & Archetypes
CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
RE: Storms
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
RE: Storms
RE: Storms
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: Storms
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:47:38 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
In a message dated 5/7/99 2:20:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Akirazeta@aol.com
writes:
<< See, i have no problem with HERO, so much as i have a problem with a few
of its stats, and the use of them in game. >>
Perhaps I missed it, and if so I apologize, but it would be helpful
if, rather than just saying, "There's a problem," you told us exactly *which*
parts of the system you have a problem with, and *why*, so that we can all
discuss them in a rational and enjoyable manner. :)
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:54:12 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Superman weaknesses
I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its effect,
but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 13:52:51 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How hot is hot?
At 03:09 PM 5/7/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>On Fri, 7 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>> So, what sort of an RKA would 4000 degrees C (or 7200 degrees F) produce?
>>
>
> Someone on this list posted rules for converting real world heat
>units (joules) to Champion's dice of damage.
>
> I'm actually _actively searching_ for these rules, as they were
>really neat and will probally want a nice happy home in my house rule
>section.
It was Len Carpenter who did this. I've saved the article twice, and
apparently lost it again.
If memory serves correctly (and it probably doesn't), my old rule of
using 2d6 for 100 degrees C and adding 1d6 per 2X temperature held more or
less correctly, so 4000 degrees C would be 7-1/2d6, give or take a bit.
Converted to Killing damage, that'd come out to about 2-1/2d6.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:58:28 -0400
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
At 04:54 PM 5/7/99 -0400, Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its effect,
>but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
>
There were various colors of Kryptonite that he had problems with,
but no ... there were no problems with particular colors themselves.
Perhaps you're thinking of Green Lantern?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:02:39 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
At 04:54 PM 5/7/1999 EDT, Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its effect,
>but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
No, that would be Green Lantern (who was helpless against anything
yellow).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:57:35 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
In a message dated 5/7/99 4:50:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SteveL1979@aol.com writes:
<< Perhaps I missed it, and if so I apologize, but it would be helpful
if, rather than just saying, "There's a problem," you told us exactly
*which*
parts of the system you have a problem with, and *why*, so that we can all
discuss them in a rational and enjoyable manner. :) >>
Id be glad to, but i think weve spent the better part of two weeks duscussing
them. If i must say it one last time, though, id be glad to. The whole
intelligence issue, and how its used in game i have issues with. The fact
that everyone buys 20+ dex just because it will make them stronger in combat,
i have an issue with. the fact tha strength is practically free, i have an
issue with.
:)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:03:33 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Superman tecnicolor
>> No, that would be Green Lantern (who was helpless against anything<<
>>yellow). <<
It was yellow. Ahh. I think i was thinking of Green Lantern, because it was
yellow that i was thinking of.
Or it might have just been a delusion of mine. i havent read anything DC in
years and years.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:01:56 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>
> I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its effect,
> but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
That would be Green Lantern and the color yellow.
Unless you're thinking under a Red Sun at which point he becomes a normal.
"That laser is at a similar frequency as a Red Sun! That hurt!"
(By the way, my stuff is from the '70s. I think this is all different now...)
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:08:35 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Classic Super Team
ive passed the 2009 campaign on to my friend Chuck, who is the one who got me
into supers rpg's. Hes agreed that i can do the creative part better, and i
know that almost anyone could do the power building and such with the HERO
system better. Its now a joint effort.
So, next ill do things the 'normal' way. Im gonan run a 'generic' game, and
build the world as the characters encounter the diffrent parts. As opposed to
contriving an entire world before hand, and than letting them loose in it.
Now, i need to know what the formula comic book team is, with 4 or 5 diffrent
characters. just generalizations will do, like 'brick', 'fire projector' blah
blah.
Lets have it!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:11:21 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
|> I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its
effect,
|> but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
|
|That would be Green Lantern and the color yellow.
|Unless you're thinking under a Red Sun at which point he becomes a normal.
|"That laser is at a similar frequency as a Red Sun! That hurt!"
|
|(By the way, my stuff is from the '70s. I think this is all different
now...)
Superman is like a living solar battery; he doesn't immediately lose all
his powers when under a red sun, but they don't get replenished except
under a yellow sun. A couple of years ago a sun-eater completely blocked
out all the Sun's radiation, and Superman ran out of juice in a few days.
Of course, he was really, really busy those few days...
- --_
Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)
At first I thought, "Mind control satellites? No way!"
But now I can't remember how we lived without them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:14:16 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
<< Superman is like a living solar battery; he doesn't immediately lose all
his powers when under a red sun, but they don't get replenished except
under a yellow sun. A couple of years ago a sun-eater completely blocked
out all the Sun's radiation, and Superman ran out of juice in a few days.
Of course, he was really, really busy those few days...
--_
Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net) >>
So, superman has an END pool that runs his powers, and it has the limit "can
only replenish under yellow sun" ?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:19:13 EDT
From: MWStrong@aol.com
Subject: RE: Stroms - hurricanes
I have seen footage where hurricane force wind has knocked over (not lifted)
a semi truck. I would base the TK off the STR requirement of the truck, and
subtract maby 5 to 8. As a check, apply a TK "punch" to plywood (used to
protect the windows of buildings during a hurricane) a few times. If it does
some body occasionaly, you have the right setting. You might also apply the
special effect (x2 effect vs large / wide targets or 1/2 effect to small
areas) as wind force depends on the cross sectional area.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:21:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: How hot is hot?
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >> So, what sort of an RKA would 4000 degrees C (or 7200 degrees F) produce?
> If memory serves correctly (and it probably doesn't), my old rule of
> using 2d6 for 100 degrees C and adding 1d6 per 2X temperature held more or
> less correctly, so 4000 degrees C would be 7-1/2d6, give or take a bit.
> Converted to Killing damage, that'd come out to about 2-1/2d6.
So... that's a max of ~15 BODY, so a Chthonian has a resitant DEF of 18 ED
and 75 percent DR vs heat/fire... <scribble, scribble>
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Kids -- they're not easy, but there has to be some penalty for sex."
Bill Maher
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 17:29:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
The World of Darkness's _Demon Hunter X_ by Jim Moore suggests the
following as being atypical of Anime, but I think it rings true of
American hero groups as well:
"There is the Handsome Leader, who is so sparkly clean and
moralistic it almost hurts to see him in action; there is the Rebel, who
argues constantly with the Handsome Leader and could, one suspects, beat
the snot out of the Handsome Leader if he ever set his mind to it.
Despite their constant jabbering at one another, however, they work well
in a team situation. The Rebel works almost to keep the Leader from
growing to lazy or confident. Throw into this mix the Bruiser-- a large,
hulking figure who seems amiable enough until circumstances piss him off,
and whose loyalty is the stuff of legend. The throw in the Geek, who is
normally too skinny, a little bit of a jabbermouth and technically adept
at coming up with whatever device is needed to stop the Bad Guys before
it's too late.
There lie the markings of a pretty good group, but that isn't
enough. No sir, because now it's time to add the reinforcing bond that
holds them all together: the Beautiful Girl. Beautiful Girl always has a
kind word for the Bruiser and Geek, though it's understood that they
haven't a chance in hell of winning her affections. She is their friend,
and she gives them confidence the Handsome Leader could never hope to
inspire. She is also--one can see though it never is written down-- the
main source of trouble between the Handsome Leader and Rebel. Although
she may never even kiss either one of them, it's a given they'd face face
the worst flames of Hell to win her affection, and just as obvious is that
she basks in the attention. No matter what either of them does, they both
try to do it better and a little more impressively because Beautiful Girl
might be watching.
For this reason, the Rebel has withstood the desire to beat the
snot out of the Handsome Leader and, conversely, Handsome Leader hasn't
kicked Rebel off the squad-- well, that and the fact that the Rebel is the
best fighter in the group, and even makes Bruiser sem like sort of a wimp.
But, Beautiful Girl might take his actions poorly, thus removing anuy
chance of Rebel ever winning her affections.
The aforementioned group dynamics are just a few conventions of
what has evolved over the years into modern day anime adventures. But
those dynamics can work for the players as well as adding to the spice of
an adventure."
It goes on to say that they "live" the best in the following ways,
and should be regarded with experience or bonus points for doing the
following:
Handsome Leader: Keeping the team alive through another battle,
and through decisions he made as to how they approach the situation.
Rebel: Beats an opponent, but does so in a way that once again
proves his physical superiority over the Handsome Leader.
Geek: Saves the day with another gadget, or by cracking the case
while surfing the Internet for clues, etc.
Bruiser: Prevents injury of another team member by taking the blow
himself or tackling the Bad Guy(s) in the nick of time.
Beautiful Girl: manages to keep them all together and stop them
from killing each other.
My hands hurt now. I want my wubbie.
But... look at the X-Men, or F4, or ANY group... I bet you'll
find something similar to this.
In fact, I'll think I'll do writeups using those code names! :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:36:20 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
>Wrong, though i agree with the statement. I detest GURPS with a passion
>seldom dedicated to a gaming system. It may be because of bad experiences,
or
>it may be bacause GURPS is just an abomonation. Either way, i wont go near
it
>with a 2 mile stick.
Oh I don't think its so bad, I just find it considerably less 'realistic'
than they claim and Ho considerably more so.
>See, i have no problem with HERO, so much as i have a problem with a few of
>its stats, and the use of them in game.
>
>And you know what they say about when you assume things. :)
Well I dont know how it would make an ass out of YOU but... *grin*
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:38:34 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
Id have to say that is a fantastic formula. Im printing out a copy of that
for refrence. Matches up with most every team i can envision, except gen13.
Now, stick some powers on there.
Handsome Leader (or Fearless Leader)
Rebel
Geek
Big Guy
Beautiful Girly
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:38:47 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
>>He started out with a comment on how broken the system was, so I suspect
>>not. GURPS probably, it seems to be a common thread in GURPS players to
>>slam on Hero, and not really talk about how good Gurps is at all.
>
>Funny...I use GURPS for all my non-supers and non-super-agent games, and I
>don't seem to have a problem with Hero. Or maybe that's because they
>published something I wrote, I dunno....
>
>But seriously, do we really have to get into this particular pissing
>contest? Can't we go back to arguing about linked or something equally
>amicable? =)
That's probably because you view things in their own merits rather than
bashing one and holding the other up as sent from God. Rules are rules,
most systems can be used for an enjoyable game and each set has it's merits
and problems. I just happen to find Hero to be flexible enough and overall
good enough for any game I have ever run or played in with the exception of
Call of Cthulhu.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:40:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
That is a very useful tidbit to have around. I'm going to keep that as a
reference for later.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Kids -- they're not easy, but there has to be some penalty for sex."
Bill Maher
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:42:06 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
At 04:54 PM 5/7/99 -0400, Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its effect,
>but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
I believe he has the defenses a normal person does against magic. He just
isn't superhuman against it (so his bulletproof -- but not apparently gun
proof (see Robert Wuhl bit for more on this) -- skin is just skin against a
magic blast). As far as I know there is no such color restriction on
Superman, but the original (and in my opinion best) Green Lantern could not
affect wood or natural materials. The Silver Age Green Lantern could not
affect yellow.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:47:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> The World of Darkness's _Demon Hunter X_ by Jim Moore suggests the
> following as being atypical of Anime, but I think it rings true of
ITYM 'typical'. 'Atypical' would be 'not typical'.
> American hero groups as well:
This is an old theory called '5 character theory', although the original
form I heard it in was: Hero, Other Guy, Big Guy, Chick, and Pet.
The 'Pet' is not always a geek, but is almost always a 'comic relief'
character. There's also an optional 6th character: the "Mentor'.
The best examples actually come from Star Wars rather than from anime...
Hero: Luke
Other Guy: Han
Chick: Leia
Big Guy: Chewbacca
Pet(s): R2D2, C3P0
(Mentor: Obi-wan)
Sometimes the genders aren't always the same - the 'other guy' can be a
girl, or in rare cases (Shurato: Heaven War Chronicles) the 'chick' role
can even be filled by a guy (usually an effeminate one)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:48:58 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
><< Perhaps I missed it, and if so I apologize, but it would be helpful
> if, rather than just saying, "There's a problem," you told us exactly
>*which*
> parts of the system you have a problem with, and *why*, so that we can all
> discuss them in a rational and enjoyable manner. :) >>
>
>Id be glad to, but i think weve spent the better part of two weeks
duscussing
>them. If i must say it one last time, though, id be glad to. The whole
>intelligence issue, and how its used in game i have issues with. The fact
>that everyone buys 20+ dex just because it will make them stronger in
combat,
>i have an issue with. the fact tha strength is practically free, i have an
>issue with.
OK Im only gonna post once on STR. In a superhero game, strength cannot
cost more than it does or Bricks are not viable, and a great deal of the
comic books feeling and the genre ideas are lost. In Heroic games, the
maximum on the cost that doubles it prevents any character I have seen in a
game from having anything higher than 30 (and boy was he a wierd
character... but fun to play). Strength does not appear to be broken in my
experience and understanding because it works as written!
DEX levels might be a problem in the game you play in, although I have my
doubts that it really is all that much a problem. I see ranges from 15-33
DEX in Superhero games (low being a slow bricky type and high being a
speedster with 12 speed.... dang he was an annoying character from a GM's
perspective heh heh). The thing is, if you spend your life being an
adventurer or hero, you will take some time working on physical aspects of
your character, especially if you want to be capable and skillful in
combat. This is reflected in the DEX stat, in superheroes, they are ALL
represented as being considerably more agile and faster than normal humans
(and stronger and tougher, etc) because they are SUPER heroes. Even guys
like 'slim' Summers, Cyclops, could take a pretty impressive hit and was
very agile, even though he had no such powers. Now of course, he is Arnold
Summers, the ripped terminator with veined muscles, but I digress.
The stat that I have a problem with in Hero is not DEX (unless you look at
Rainbow Archer), but CON. Everyone has a superhuman CON just cause its
cost efficient and you want those stats, regardless of the character
conception. Oh well :)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> "There is the Handsome Leader, who is so sparkly clean and
> moralistic it almost hurts to see him in action;
Codes of Honor, Honorable, Psych Lim: Moral, always weighs moral
actions of his decisions, Psych Lim: Compelled to do good Cak,
Superpatroit, etc.
Decent stats, some form of non-Killing Damage, good combat (but
not better than Rebel).
Think Cyclops, Superman, and Captain America.
> there is the Rebel, who
> argues constantly with the Handsome Leader and could, one suspects, beat
> the snot out of the Handsome Leader if he ever set his mind to it.
A little crazy, a little feral. Takes things personally.
Enraged, Psych Lim: Short Fuse, Likes Combat, etc.
Great stats, especially DEX, load up on Talents, Perks, and Powers
that simulate Martial Attacks. An HKA might not be out of the question.
Sneaky is good.
Most likely a messed up past.
Think Batman, Wolverine, and other vigilantesque Dark characters.
> Throw into this mix the Bruiser-- a large, hulking figure who seems
> amiable enough until circumstances piss him off, and whose loyalty is
> thestuff of legend.
Brick with Resistance (or Mental Defense, only to be loyal to
friends). Enraged when friends attacked. Psych. Lim: Looyal to friends.
Give him some HA (someone threw out a NICE brick Multipower less than a
month ago), a "grab stuff and throw/use park bench as baseball bat" power
construct, plusses to Move By/Move Through/Haymaker.
Think Hulk, Collusus, Ogre, and other goliaths.
> Then throw in the Geek, who is normally too skinny, a little bit of a
> jabbermouth and technically adept
> at coming up with whatever device is needed to stop the Bad Guys before
> it's too late.
Phys Lim: Skinny, DF: Jabbermouth Geek, high INT, SC, KS, etc.
Add a VPP.
> holds them all together: the Beautiful Girl. Beautiful Girl always has a
> kind word for the Bruiser and Geek, though it's understood that they
> haven't a chance in hell of winning her affections. She is their friend,
> and she gives them confidence the Handsome Leader could never hope to
> inspire.
High PRE and COM. Lots of nice non-combat abilities, like AID and
mentalist abilities.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:52:46 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
>Handsome Leader (or Fearless Leader)
>Rebel
>Geek
>Big Guy
>Beautiful Girly
Actually there is another one, the Ingenue, or Little Kid. This character
serves the purpose of being the innocence of the team, the hostage, and the
reason they get into adventures. Often a sidekick, usually younger than
the rest of the team, and sometimes combined with the Beautiful Girly.
Incidentally this is what most pulp stories are based on, its a very old
formula.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:52:45 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
In a message dated 5/7/99 5:48:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeffj@io.com
writes:
<< This is an old theory called '5 character theory', although the original
form I heard it in was: Hero, Other Guy, Big Guy, Chick, and Pet. >>
Hero: Cyclopse
Other guy: Wolvie
Big Guy: Colosis
Chick: Jean
Pet: Beast
Mentor: Xaiver
Hero: mr. marvel
Other guy: flameboy
Big Guy: thing
Chick: inviso-girly
hmm. looks pretty good to me :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:02:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Super Team
On Fri, 7 May 1999 Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 5/7/99 5:48:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeffj@io.com
> writes:
>
> << This is an old theory called '5 character theory', although the original
> form I heard it in was: Hero, Other Guy, Big Guy, Chick, and Pet. >>
>
> Hero: Cyclopse
> Other guy: Wolvie
> Big Guy: Colosis
> Chick: Jean
> Pet: Beast
> Mentor: Xaiver
I'm not sure that Beast would be best as a 'pet' - usually they're
annoying comic relief, and far less competent than the other characters.
If someone's going to get kidnapped, it's probably them. Think Spritle
and ChimChim from Speed Racer. With all of that...Dr. McCoy doesn't
really fit...
J
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:46:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
> Anyway, I'm not bitter about any of this. I think New Millennium is an
>excellent setting (I know this is not the right mailing list in which to
>proclaim such a belief), but the Fuzion rules were, frankly, a sloppy mess.
It may not be, but I agree with you completely. If I didn't have an
established campaign setting, I'd likely be using the New Millenium one
myself. Personally, I think some of the hostility to it because people
associate it with Fuzion, which, true or not, many people consider to have
been an attempt to abandon the Hero System. Some more is people overly
fixating on the art style and deciding it was and Image Comics knockoff
settting. In practice, other than the catastrophe in the recent past of the
setting, it seems pretty much a traditional superhero setting with a lot of
nice twiddly bits to me.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:06:09 -0700
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Elementals & Archetypes
> For the new age elementals, I 'd recommend: Time, Space, Order, Chaos.
>
> This gives two pairs of 'related opposites,' just as fire/water and
> earth/air are.
Ooh, very elegant. I like it!
The four classic elements were arranged in a square:
Fire HEAT Air
DRY WET
Earth COLD Water
> Fire: Space + Chaos
> Water: Time + Order
> Earth: Space + Order
> Air: Time + Chaos
Using your definitions we can place the "new" elements as follows:
Fire Chaos Air
Space Time
Earth Order Water
It would be useful to define their attributes. Maybe something like:
ENERGY Chaos QUANTUM
Space Time
DETER. Order ENTROPY
Blight ...... Order (inevitable corruption)
Deviance .... Chaos (energetic and unpredictable)
Progress .... Time (adaptive)
Firepower ... Space (industrial juggernaut)
You could stretch this and say that the "entropic" aspect of Order is
vulnerable to Fire, while the "dry" aspect of fire is vulnerable to Time.
I dunno. It certainly isn't perfect, but maybe it'll give someone an idea.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:06:46 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
This is a rule i have lived by with every character ive made, or supervised
since i got the bbb. It is used to explain how all the super chicks, and some
of the super guys, are slimmer than your average human, but can toss around
oldsmobiles like baseballs, and why other supers of equal or compairable
strength is the size of the oldsmobile.
If the character buys theyre strength up stat as a base stat, they are huge.
If they buy theyre strength as part of theyre power package, they can dictate
size.
Basically, i used Gen13 for all my models, just cause i happen to like the
feel of that particular comic over all others ive found.
The leader of em is a trim and fit girl, with a super model figure. She also
fills the Brick slot.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 17:28:13 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 1999 HeroGames@aol.com wrote:
>
> > >>> I expect that Hero has lied to us at least once because they needed
> > >to
> > >>> create a particular media image and I don't really mind that.
> > >>
> > >>Well, that's not lying, that's marketing (-;
> > >
> > >Same thing, the latter being lying to make money.
> >
> > I realize that's supposed to be a joke, but marketing should not be lying...
> > not good marketing. If you're lying about something, eventually you'll get
> > tripped up and be worse off than if you didn't lie. Good marketing means not
> > lying to others or lying to yourself about the selling points of your product.
>
> Dunno, Steve, Bill Gates has been getting away with this stunt for years.
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
> questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
> "Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
> "Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
> (c) Doug Robarchek
That's only because Gates had a monopoly bestowed apon him by IBM and
his mommy and it far easier to keep a monopoly by lieing then by any other
means. Hero Games hasn't had the golden goose lay and egg in thier laps so
they must continue to try and please their customers.
As far as the fuzion thing is concerned, I got to rules for free so I didn't feel
like I had wasted anything when I decided not to use them for anything. I too
was under the impression that it was going to eventually replace the BBB
rules. If I had been forced to pay for it and then they did their about face, I'd
have been pissed. As it turns out, Hero Games is supporting the only RPG
I still play and run so I will continue to buy their products. They may make
a few missteps along the way but as long as my investment is completely
wasted I will continue to support them with my purchases.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: Storms
>I found something similar to what you're trying to do in the Mystic Masters
>book. It is a focus called the Thanatic Rod. It has a transfer used to
>increase it's own power. This doesn't fit exactly what your trying to do but
>maybe it will give you some more ideas ...
>
Turns out according to a clarification in Fantasy Hero that the Rod doesn't
work, though. An Area Effect Transfer will reduce the attributes of all the
targets in the area, but only increases the recipient _once_.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 17:38:58 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Geoff Speare wrote:
> At 03:07 PM 5/7/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >To answer the question... "Is Champions dead?"
> >
> > My answer is "Yes, 4th edition Champions is dead."
>
> It's not dead, it's just burning STUN as END. :)
>
> Geoff Speare
ROTFLMAO
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 15:38:00 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: Storms
At 03:10 PM 5/7/99 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>I found something similar to what you're trying to do in the Mystic Masters
>>book. It is a focus called the Thanatic Rod. It has a transfer used to
>>increase it's own power. This doesn't fit exactly what your trying to do but
>>maybe it will give you some more ideas ...
>>
>
>Turns out according to a clarification in Fantasy Hero that the Rod doesn't
>work, though. An Area Effect Transfer will reduce the attributes of all the
>targets in the area, but only increases the recipient _once_.
Heh, assuming you buy that. There appears to be some conflict, since both
sources say opposing things, eh?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: Storms
>At 03:10 PM 5/7/99 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>I found something similar to what you're trying to do in the Mystic Masters
>>>book. It is a focus called the Thanatic Rod. It has a transfer used to
>>>increase it's own power. This doesn't fit exactly what your trying to do but
>>>maybe it will give you some more ideas ...
>>>
>>
>>Turns out according to a clarification in Fantasy Hero that the Rod doesn't
>>work, though. An Area Effect Transfer will reduce the attributes of all the
>>targets in the area, but only increases the recipient _once_.
>
>Heh, assuming you buy that. There appears to be some conflict, since both
>sources say opposing things, eh?
Since I heard the same answer officially from Rob Bell back when he was
editor, I tend to believe it.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:17:07 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
anybody got a shot synopsis of the sun-eater thing they did in dc? sounded
interesting, but i never got to read it. . . also, anyone wiht commments
about the dc heroes game, feel free to shell them out, i'm playing it nxt
week, .. . . also there was the time supes went into space after killing the
three pocket dimension kryptonians and going a bit nuts. he eventually ran
into moguls warworld and fought in an arena and stuff, before be replenished
by a solar-collector array built to charge a shuttlecraft.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses
>
>|> I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its
>effect,
>|> but wasnt there a certian color that he couldnt defend agianst also?
>|
>|That would be Green Lantern and the color yellow.
>|Unless you're thinking under a Red Sun at which point he becomes a normal.
>
>|"That laser is at a similar frequency as a Red Sun! That hurt!"
>|
>|(By the way, my stuff is from the '70s. I think this is all different
>now...)
>
>Superman is like a living solar battery; he doesn't immediately lose all
>his powers when under a red sun, but they don't get replenished except
>under a yellow sun. A couple of years ago a sun-eater completely blocked
>out all the Sun's radiation, and Superman ran out of juice in a few days.
>Of course, he was really, really busy those few days...
>--_
>Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)
>At first I thought, "Mind control satellites? No way!"
>But now I can't remember how we lived without them.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:33:49 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Storms
compromise- allow for it to enhance, only if you buy a high maximum rating.
otherwise, it's limited to the maximum
rolled like other adjustment powers? just a thought.. .
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: RE: Storms
>>I found something similar to what you're trying to do in the Mystic
Masters
>>book. It is a focus called the Thanatic Rod. It has a transfer used to
>>increase it's own power. This doesn't fit exactly what your trying to do
but
>>maybe it will give you some more ideas ...
>>
>
>Turns out according to a clarification in Fantasy Hero that the Rod doesn't
>work, though. An Area Effect Transfer will reduce the attributes of all
the
>targets in the area, but only increases the recipient _once_.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 18:38:29 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> > > From: Akirazeta@aol.com
> > > << However, I'm not responsible if someone misinterprets what I say, or
> > > misremembers something I said. Which does happen. >>
> > >
> > > Ahh, the "politician" line. heh. i love it when people say they dont lie,
> > > than pull this line.
> >
> > You *are* or *are not* a fan of the Hero system ? I'm sure comments like
> > these are great motivation for Steve Peterson and the other Hero
> > rep's to be straight forward with us.
>
> I don't think he is, considering how hard he's been hammering on about how
> flawed the characteristcs are recently.
>
Now Michael... I love Hero... but I have to fight for improvements never the less
wanting the game to be the best it can be and presenting house rules and
similar proposals to better balance what already is one of the best.
Lance
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 19:01:37 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 1999 Akirazeta@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I don't think he is, considering how hard he's been hammering on about how
> > flawed the characteristcs are recently.
> >
> > Im something of an undecided at this point, though i feel that the base game
> > mechanics are flawed. I like the concept, and it IS the only supers game
> > engine in town. Im not going to give credit to ANY system where it isnt due,
> > and if there is a problem, i wont ignore it. :)
>
> If you feel the base game mechanics of Hero are flawed *and* you are
> looking for a superhero game engine then I don't quite know what to say.
> Hero has been voted the best RPG of all time in one poll and is considered
> the best supers RPG going. And if you think Hero is flawed, I'd hate to
> see what you'd have to say about Marvel's old RPG
I think the best one could say is Marvel RPG was based on interesting comics ;)
> or DC Heroes
Actually interesting mechanics... though the process of creating characters
was really convoluted... and the powers weren't nicely modular like hero
> (or GURPS).
> I will admit that GURPS is probably better for low-end gaming
Hmmmm I waffle about GURPS... but it does seem a little better at times
for designing real world people... design your self in GURPS is a fun excercise
> (such as
> wild west type adventures, pulp action and/or horror, TV detectives) but
> (IMO) Hero handles the cinematic style of gaming prefectly. Yes, it's not
> perfect, but it is far better than just about anything else.
SUPER HERO may be Heros specialty, but It's potential for doing well defined
totally customized Magick is also quite Extraordinary.. making grand scale fantasy
also quite up there
> About the
> only thing that does the wild-action style of gaming better is Feng Shui.
>
I'm not familiar with it?
>
> > As for being a long time, or hardcore HERO fan, i believe in the statement
> > that STARTED this entire thread, I stated that my interest was little more
> > than curiosity of systems i havent yet played, and an intereest in playing a
> > super game.
If you want to play supers in "general" then there is really no other game.
In my opinion other games have things to exploit and inspire how you play
Champions or... but for super hero games that are just what you want them to
be Hero, really is the system It encourages grand scale tweaking and is built for
it, Nothing else is so customizeable , unless you count FUDGE and that is hand
waving not a
system.
Lance
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #324
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:55 PM