Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 329
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 10:01 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #329
champ-l-digest Monday, May 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 329
In this issue:
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Alchemist
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
RE: CHAR: Succubus
Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Alchemist
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 17:14:24 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alchemist
In a message dated 5/9/99 1:09:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mitchels@megsinet.net writes:
> The UBO is there because what you have is a PC giving other PC's powers.
> The special effect is just that it's a potion bottle. If the wizard casted
> a barkskin on another PC, but made him hold a piece of oak, would you
> require the caster to by the armor/force field as usable by other. You
> probably would, even though there is a focus of a piece of oak involved.
good point. thanks,
andy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 14:16:00 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>| -1 1/4 OAF: Expendable, Hard to recover.
>
>Ish... fork over the money and you have a replacement. Not hard to recover
>at all, especially if your friendly neighborhood alchemist happens to be a
>PC.
I'd say all this depends on the value of the items that make a potion up,
and how difficult they are to recover. How rare alchemists are, etc, its
campaign based. If you are in a typical AD&D world where potions roll down
the streets like rain, probably its not worth anything.
>| +1/4 Usable by self or one other.
>
>If you are using Focus, then you do not really need this, either.
>
>[...]
>| What does everyone think....do you see any holes?
>
>If no Charges, where does the END for the powers come from?
Charges seems valid for this, IF you build it as an indepedant, as most
would. Independent points do NOT have to come from the owner. I.e. you can
make a potion using someone else's xps if the cough them up, and in my
campaign at least some ingredients and rituals give you free points for
making items.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 14:24:30 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>>| +1/4 Usable by self or one other.
>>
>>If you are using Focus, then you do not really need this, either.
>
>You do, because a focus can be personal or universal. Only and independent
>item is truly free form its owner.
Rat will handle this well but you need to rethink how foci and independant
items work. Any item that has a power that is not part of a person is a
focus. By its very nature any person can use a universal focus, and thus
can take your gun and fire it without you being even alive or present. You
don't have to pay points for a focus to be used by anyone other than
yourself, its simply a part of the nature of Foci.
>>If no Charges, where does the END for the powers come from?
>
>The End is paid by the spell caster when he makes the potion and sets up the
>trigger. Don't you know how triggers and delayed effects work?
This would be true if you were building the potion the way you did, but you
spent points needlessly. As it presently is built, each potion that the
alchemist makes goes against the suggested (and I second strongly) rule
that you can only have one power/spell active per 5 points of INT. It also
means that if the alchemist passes out (you didnt buy persistent) the power
shuts off, or if the alchemist dies it shuts off -- the potion becomes
useless. In other words, its not really a potion in the usual sense at
all, its a spell in the form of a potion. Independent cuts that off from
the user totally, live, die, anything happens, the power still is ready to
use. Add in charges (1, used up) for each one and that potion is a
separate entity that requires no END at any point to create or use.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 17:23:29 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alchemist
In a message dated 5/9/99 2:55:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SteveL1979@aol.com writes:
> 6. Brewing up a potion involves a lot of procedures -- throwing
ingredients
> into a pot, chanting, concentrating, scribbling formulae, and whatnot --
> that
> drinking the potion does not. The best way to simulate this sort of
thing,
> IMO, is Delayed Effect. This also limits the number of potions Ye
Alchemist
>
> can walk around in the game with (to INT/5 potions, or what have you),
> providing a balancing factor
Ok... why do you like this as Delayed Effect rather than trigger?
andy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 14:26:39 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>| The Alchemist is a good PC class. Imagine the adventures a good GM can run
>| for a PC Alchemist searching for spell components.
>
>Imagine how annoyed everyone else will be playing second fiddle to the PC
>alchemist's frequent quests. No matter how much you sugar-coat it, some
>people will chafe at the idea of having to do all of the work while another
>PC reaps all (or at least most) of the reward.
That all assumes that nothing else on the adventure makes you money. I
actually second his statement from personal experience, it makes for
another motivation and kind of party, everyone is out to get pieces of
components and such for the business, and on the way you get loot,
adventures, etc. It works well, but can wear thin if the GM doesnt keep
variety involved.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 17:32:11 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alchemist
In a message dated 5/9/99 5:23:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AndMat3 writes:
<< > 6. Brewing up a potion involves a lot of procedures -- throwing
ingredients
> into a pot, chanting, concentrating, scribbling formulae, and whatnot --
> that
> drinking the potion does not. The best way to simulate this sort of
thing,
> IMO, is Delayed Effect. This also limits the number of potions Ye
Alchemist
>
> can walk around in the game with (to INT/5 potions, or what have you),
> providing a balancing factor
Ok... why do you like this as Delayed Effect rather than trigger? >>
You could do it either way. I just find Delayed Effect more
thematically appropriate and balancing.
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 18:01:28 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
> Ok... why do you like this as Delayed Effect rather than trigger? >>
>
> You could do it either way. I just find Delayed Effect more
>thematically appropriate and balancing.
>
>Steve Long
I personally think Trigger is the correct advantage. With trigger the
Alchemist is not limited to the Int/3 and once cast is not longer in the
Alchemists control. So it might be days, weeks, or months before the
trigger is activated on the potion.
With the Trigger it doesn't matter if the alchemist is dead or not, it will
stay active until triggered.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 18:10:10 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
3. The person who brews the potion doesn't necessarily have to be the
person using it. For the most part, anyone can drink, and obtain the
benefits of, a potion. To me, this primarily sounds like the Focus is
Universal. In some games the GM might want you to apply Usable By Others to
get that sort of effect, but that doesn't seem necessary to me because of
the special effects involved here. YMMV.
Yes it could go either way, but I still sight the barkskin example I used
earlier.
>4. There is a limited number of doses of each potion; once they're drunk,
the alchemist has to get more components and brew up another batch. This
sounds like Charges to me.
I would work under the assumption that he would have to make them one at a
time and that each bottle only worked once. I always thought it was kind of
stupid that the user had to break out his shot glass to make sure he only
took one dose out of the flask.
>5. The effects of a potion typically last for a certain period of time
>(perhaps a long one). Continuing Charges sounds like the best way to go
here, but for some Constant/Persistent Powers maybe the drinker simply pays
the END for the Power.
I would do it so that Each alchemist invoked a certain amount of endurance
into the potion instead of continuing charges. This gives the effect that
the greatest alchemist can make longer lasting potions because their skill
and magic is superior to lesser alchemist. That way the Alchemist needs to
become more powerful to make better potions. I think this adds more
mystique to the character types.
>6. Brewing up a potion involves a lot of procedures -- throwing
ingredients into a pot, chanting, concentrating, scribbling formulae, and
whatnot -- that drinking the potion does not. The best way to simulate this
sort of thing, IMO, is Delayed Effect. This also limits the number of
potions Ye Alchemist can walk around in the game with (to INT/5 potions, or
what have you), providing a balancing factor.
I believe Trigger works better. It separates the potion from the Alchemist
and means that anyone can find the potion and trigger it by drinking, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 18:16:24 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>Rat will handle this well but you need to rethink how foci and independant
items work. Any item that has a power that is not part of a person is a
focus. By its very nature any person can use a universal focus, and thus
can take your gun and fire it without you being even alive or present. You
don't have to pay points for a focus to be used by anyone other than
yourself, its simply a part of the nature of Foci.
As I stated this is a personal preferance for me. A wizard in my campaign
who makes his own staff, has the advantage that no one else can use it
unless he buys it independant or usable by other.
The same goes for a sword. This way weapons can be tailor made for specific
individuals or races. When not being used by that person the magic
broadsword works like a regular broadsword, etc.
>This would be true if you were building the potion the way you did, but you
spent points needlessly. As it presently is built, each potion that the
>alchemist makes goes against the suggested (and I second strongly) rule
that you can only have one power/spell active per 5 points of INT.
With the trigger effect I disagree with this premise.
It also means that if the alchemist passes out (you didnt buy persistent)
the power shuts off, or if the alchemist dies it shuts off -- the potion
becomes useless. In other words, its not really a potion in the usual sense
at all, its a spell in the form of a potion. Independent cuts that off from
the user totally, live, die, anything happens, the power still is ready to
use.
If feel that the trigger handles this also.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:18:14 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>> Ok... why do you like this as Delayed Effect rather than trigger? >>
>>
>> You could do it either way. I just find Delayed Effect more
>>thematically appropriate and balancing.
>
>I personally think Trigger is the correct advantage. With trigger the
>Alchemist is not limited to the Int/3 and once cast is not longer in the
>Alchemists control. So it might be days, weeks, or months before the
>trigger is activated on the potion.
Actually it is 1/5 INT, and I would suggest you use this with Trigger as
well if you are GMing any mages, the reasons of which will become very
clear if you do not.
>With the Trigger it doesn't matter if the alchemist is dead or not, it will
>stay active until triggered.
Mothing about trigger says this or implies it. Trigger does not make a
power persistent, nor Independent (the only way other than Transformation
to make a permanent effect like you suggest in Hero terms)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:28:20 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
At 06:16 PM 5/9/99 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>>Rat will handle this well but you need to rethink how foci and independant
>items work. Any item that has a power that is not part of a person is a
>focus. By its very nature any person can use a universal focus, and thus
>can take your gun and fire it without you being even alive or present. You
>don't have to pay points for a focus to be used by anyone other than
>yourself, its simply a part of the nature of Foci.
>
>
>As I stated this is a personal preferance for me. A wizard in my campaign
>who makes his own staff, has the advantage that no one else can use it
>unless he buys it independant or usable by other.
The thing is, you can use that house rule in your campaign :) and more
power to you! But you did ask if there were any things bought incorrectly
and according to the rules, that is how it works.
>>It also means that if the alchemist passes out (you didnt buy persistent)
>>the power shuts off, or if the alchemist dies it shuts off -- the potion
>>becomes useless. In other words, its not really a potion in the usual sense
>>at all, its a spell in the form of a potion. Independent cuts that off from
>>the user totally, live, die, anything happens, the power still is ready to
>>use.
>
>If feel that the trigger handles this also.
Again, if you want that as a house rule that is fine, but that isn't in the
rules, you have to pay for that.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 19:38:17 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>>I personally think Trigger is the correct advantage. With trigger the
>>Alchemist is not limited to the Int/3 and once cast is not longer in the
>>Alchemists control. So it might be days, weeks, or months before the
>>trigger is activated on the potion.
>
>Actually it is 1/5 INT, and I would suggest you use this with Trigger as
>well if you are GMing any mages, the reasons of which will become very
>clear if you do not.
I know that. I'm sorry, it was a typing mistake on my part.
>>With the Trigger it doesn't matter if the alchemist is dead or not, it
will
>>stay active until triggered.
>Mothing about trigger says this or implies it. Trigger does not make a
>power persistent, nor Independent (the only way other than Transformation
>to make a permanent effect like you suggest in Hero terms)
I think you did not read trigger correctly. This advantage will allow
someone to set up a power and pay the endurance for it when it is set up.
Then when someone triggers the power, it goes off.
This could be the Great Mage Taylor who sets a web spell at the entrance to
his magic library and then promptly dies. One hundred years later the
Master Mystic Thief Mitchel comes across Taylor's library and accidentally
sets off the web entangle, trapping him in the entrance to the library.
That's how trigger works. There is no time limit because the spell caster
spends the endurance for the power when he sets it up.
This make the advantage perfect for someone who wants to set up Glyphs,
Potions and even single shot scrolls.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 19:59:48 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>>>With the Trigger it doesn't matter if the alchemist is dead or not, it
>will
>>>stay active until triggered.
>
>>Mothing about trigger says this or implies it. Trigger does not make a
>>power persistent, nor Independent (the only way other than Transformation
>>to make a permanent effect like you suggest in Hero terms)
>
>
>I think you did not read trigger correctly. This advantage will allow
>someone to set up a power and pay the endurance for it when it is set up.
>Then when someone triggers the power, it goes off.
>
>This could be the Great Mage Taylor who sets a web spell at the entrance to
>his magic library and then promptly dies. One hundred years later the
>Master Mystic Thief Mitchel comes across Taylor's library and accidentally
>sets off the web entangle, trapping him in the entrance to the library.
>
>That's how trigger works. There is no time limit because the spell caster
>spends the endurance for the power when he sets it up.
Yes actually there is. That only means he doesnt have to pay END again
when it goes off, it says nothing about making the power persistent (a
specific advantage and an important part of the game that they felt
compelled to describe in the power summary list). You are assuming
something that is not given nor implied, and its not part of the advantage.
You COULD add Persistent to the potion, but it still would go away when he
died. Thats just how the powers work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 23:34:36 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alchemist
In a message dated 5/9/99 7:47:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ctaylor@viser.net
writes:
> Mothing about trigger says this or implies it. Trigger does not make a
> power persistent, nor Independent (the only way other than Transformation
> to make a permanent effect like you suggest in Hero terms)
i think (and this is from memory, i cannot find my FH book) that once a
triggered spell is cast it is considered "complete" for purposes of skill
roll, END... etc. this would tend to say that once the triggered power is
cast, it will go off whenever the trigger is activated. if someone has their
book handy... see if you can find this... or maybe i was reading the wrong
book.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 23:15:38 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
>Yes actually there is. That only means he doesnt have to pay END again
when it goes off, it says nothing about making the power persistent (a
specific advantage and an important part of the game that they felt
>compelled to describe in the power summary list). You are assuming
>something that is not given nor implied, and its not part of the advantage.
> You COULD add Persistent to the potion, but it still would go away when he
died. Thats just how the powers work.
I think you and I have a disagreement about the Trigger advantage. The
example I sighted was the same one used in the Hero System Rules book with
the thief and the mage. No where does it state that the trigger has a
limited time frame.
If Steve or someone else from Hero has been following this discussion, I
sure would like to know how this advantage works. Perhaps you could give us
a brief statement?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:26:13 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
>Note I wasn't talking about Fuzion, though. I was talking about using
the
>C:TNM setting for a regular Champions campaign.
What ever works for your campaign. Why not? It's rare for me to use a
setting straight out of a book though. Usually I am either changing a
pre-fab setting around quite a bit or lifting several elements and
putting together a home brew.
And you?
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:23:45 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
>>Do you not approve of house rules and making your own home built
>>modifications to the HSR?
>
>I don't approve of bringing them into general discussions of rules
problems
>as defenses of those problems. At that point any rules problem can be
blown
>off because someone's got a houserule to fix it to suit them somewhere.
But
>that has nothing to do with the game as written, which is the common
>ground.
Well there's one problem with that- You're defining the problem as *you*
see it as inherent to the game system an the common ground. While I will
cheerfully agree that on level of STR in HSR costs on CP, I do not see
this as a *problem*, and you do. Therefore while the system is a common
ground your problems anfd the solution for those problems are not.
In short, your STR problem is not mine.
>>Because if there came a system that was tuned specifically to your
>>campains right out of the box, it probably wouldn't fit my campaign.
>
>Please see the phrase 'that's nice for your campaign' in the paragraph
at
>the top. It means just that. It also means it's essentially a useless
>response when dealing with the rules in general, which is what I'm
>addressing.
No, you're not. You're addressing *your* perception of the game system
which is not universal. if you, yourself have a problem then fix it for
yourself. Don't fix the HSR for me when it's not broken as far as *I*
(Speaking only for myself and my useage of the game) can see.
>>So we have to change thing, interpret things, and alter things. No
system
>>is perfect out of the box.
>
>And no system can be discussed intelligently if you try to talk about
every
>set of house rules for it in existance at the same time. All the common
>ground you have is the published rules.
now we're getting into the idea of what constitutes "intelligent"
discussion. I think you labeling House rules as off topic as solutions
to your pronblems misses the point
Your problems with the HSR are just that, your problems. If some people
agree with your POV then there ae people like me who don'tin a general
sense.
"Fixing" the game system as a whole to suit *you* would break it from my
POV, since we don't see exactly eye to eye on these matters.
So whose POV controls what goes into HSR? My guess woukld be the folks
down at Hero games, informed by feed back from their customers...
>>My major change to HSR has been to adopt certain GURPS-like usages and
>>interpretations to the use iof HSR. But veryyone will have their own.
>>
>>I do not see this as a bad thing.
>
>I don't either. I just don't see it as relevant to my point. As
written in
>the Hero System Rulebook, if you take off the figured stats, CON is too
>expensive at 2 points per point of CON.
Too expensive from whose POV and from which useage? And why take off the
figured stats?
For you the answer is one thing (maybe change the cost to 1.5 CP?) and
for me the answer is something else (It ain't broke, I don't fix)
So what's the answer to that? Whose opinion weighs more?
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
>
>>I don't approve of bringing them into general discussions of rules
>problems
>>as defenses of those problems. At that point any rules problem can be
>blown
>>off because someone's got a houserule to fix it to suit them somewhere.
>But
>>that has nothing to do with the game as written, which is the common
>>ground.
>
>Well there's one problem with that- You're defining the problem as *you*
>see it as inherent to the game system an the common ground. While I will
>cheerfully agree that on level of STR in HSR costs on CP, I do not see
>this as a *problem*, and you do. Therefore while the system is a common
>ground your problems anfd the solution for those problems are not.
Actually, I never said anything about that. You're confusing me with
someone else. What I said was that if you remove the figured
characteristics from Constitution, that the other things it does under the
standard rules do not make it worth two points per point. If you disagree
with that, then respond to it...not a point I never made.
>>Please see the phrase 'that's nice for your campaign' in the paragraph
>at
>>the top. It means just that. It also means it's essentially a useless
>>response when dealing with the rules in general, which is what I'm
>>addressing.
>
>No, you're not. You're addressing *your* perception of the game system
>which is not universal. if you, yourself have a problem then fix it for
>yourself. Don't fix the HSR for me when it's not broken as far as *I*
>(Speaking only for myself and my useage of the game) can see.
Since I was addressing a suggested _fix_ for the problems with some stats,
perhaps you could actually look at what I'm saying rather than missing my
point? I'm not talking about a current cost feature at all. I'm talking
about the fix Steve Peterson was suggesting for people who dislike some of
the stat costs and saying why I thought _that_ was a bad idea, unless you
changed other things.
If you aren't paying attention to a thread, it'd be really nice not to
respond to it.
>>And no system can be discussed intelligently if you try to talk about
>every
>>set of house rules for it in existance at the same time. All the common
>>ground you have is the published rules.
>
>now we're getting into the idea of what constitutes "intelligent"
>discussion. I think you labeling House rules as off topic as solutions
>to your pronblems misses the point
Labelling them off topic for a discussion about why changing a rule in one
specific way without changing others, on the other hand, is a simple attempt
to keep the discussion to a manageable level.
[Much snippage of stuff showing a complete misunderstanding of what I was
talking about]
>Too expensive from whose POV and from which useage? And why take off the
>figured stats?
See my point about not having paid attention to what the thread was about?
I'm sorry if this is surly, but it really is hard to have a discussion when
someone is responding to your post in effectively, a non-sequitor.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
>>Note I wasn't talking about Fuzion, though. I was talking about using
>the
>>C:TNM setting for a regular Champions campaign.
>
>
>What ever works for your campaign. Why not? It's rare for me to use a
>setting straight out of a book though. Usually I am either changing a
>pre-fab setting around quite a bit or lifting several elements and
>putting together a home brew.
>
>And you?
Other than with game settings where playing them at least mostly straight is
pretty much the point in the exercise, I rarely use a predone game setting.
I will occasionally use chunks of material from one when useful, but even
that's uncommon. That's one reason I was impressed by the New Millenium
setting; it's one of the few I've seen I could see using pretty much 'as is'
albiet with Hero rather than Fuzion.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:38:25 -0700
From: "David W. Salmon" <dwsalmon@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Succubus
How about making the "Kiss" with invisible power effects so that the victim
doesn't realize what's going on until it is too late. If the damage was felt
when kissed, then I sure as heck would try to back off. This way they just
keep getting more run down until they just die.
Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org [mailto:owner-champ-l@sysabend.org]On
Behalf Of Michael Surbrook
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 12:24 PM
To: Champions Mailing List
Subject: CHAR: Succubus
[aka the world's most expensive Playboy Playmate [point-wise])
SUCCUBUS
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
20 STR 10 13- 200kg; 4d6
17 DEX 21 12- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
18 CON 16 13-
13 BODY 6 12-
15 INT 5 12- PER Roll 12-
18 EGO 16 13- ECV: 6
20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
30 COM 10 15-
7 PD 3 Total: 15 PD / 8 PDr
7 ED 3 Total: 15 ED / 8 EDr
3 SPD 3 Phases: 4, 8, 12
8 REC 0
36 END 0
32 STUN 0
Total Characteristics Cost: 103
Movement: Flight: 9" / 18"
Running: 6" / 12"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Teleport: 10" / 640"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
16 Combat Skill Levels: +2 with Combat
Succubus Powers:
40 Kiss: Drain: 2d6 vs BODY, Continous (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Must
follow grab (-1/4)
8 Claws: HKA: 1/2d6 (1d6+1 with STR), Reduced Penetration (-1/4)
70 Charm: Mind Control: 12d6, Telepathic (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
Humanoids Only (-1/2)
36 ESP: Telepathy: 12d6, 0 END (+1/2), Receive Only (-1/2), Surface
Thoughts Only (-1)
24 Demonic Hide: Armor: 8 DEF
30 Demonic Resistance: Damage Reduction: 1/2 vs Energy, Resistant
15 Demonic Resistance: Damage Reduction: 1/2 vs Physical, Resistant,
vs gas based attacks only (-1)
30 Demonic Vitality: Life Support: Full
14 Strong Self-Will: Mental Defense: 18 DEF
102 Magical Resistance: Dispel: 17d6 vs Any single power with a
magical SFX (+1/4), Damage Shield (+1/2), Personal
Immunity (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Always On (-1/2)
20 Astral Travel: EDM: Astral Plane, END 2
20 Become Ethereal: EDM: Ethereal plane, END 2
30 Plane Travel: EDM, Related Group of Dimensions: Planes of the
Abyss, END 3
12 Wings: Flight: 9", Restrainable (-1/2), END 2
60 Instantaneous Movement: Teleport: 10", x64 NCM, x2 Mass, 1
Floating Location, END 2
60 Clairaudience: Clairsentience: Hearing Group, 1,600" range,
0 END (+1/2)
25 Summon Abyssal Darkness: Darkness vs Sight Group, 2" radius, END 2
5 Heat Vision: IR Vision
30 Shapechange: Shapeshift: Any humanoid form, 0 END (+1/2)
104 Open Demon Gate: Summon upto a 1000 point creature, Limited Group:
Demons of the Abyss (+1/4), Activates 10- (-1 1/4),
Extra Time: Full Phase (-1/2), END 29
Background Skills:
32 Speaking in Tongues: Talent: Universal Translator 18-
3 Acting 13-
3 AK: Native Abyssal Plane 12-
3 Conversation 13-
3 Interrogation 13-
5 KS: Demons and Demonic Hierarchy 14-
5 KS: Sorcery and the Occult 14-
3 Persuasion 13-
7 Seduction 15-
2 WF: Common Melee Weapons
817 Total Powers & Skills Cost
920 Total Character Cost
75+ Disadvantages
15 Distinctive Features: Extreme beauty, bat wings (Con)
15 Physical Limitation: Cannot pass specific magical circles and
barriers (I, F)
Psychological Limitation:
10 Cruel and domineering (C, M)
10 Prefer to act alone, don't care for others of their kind (C, M)
15 Repelled by holy artifacts and objects (U, T)
10 Reputation: Seducer and destroyer of men, ext 8-
10 Rivalry: With other demons or equal or greater rank
Vulnerability:
10 x2 BODY from cold iron
10 x2 STUN from cold iron
8 Watched: Demons of greater rank (Mopow) 8-
732 Experience
920 Total Disadvantage Points
Appearance:
Succubi normally appear as tall and very beautiful women. In their
natural form they tend to have reddish skin and inky-black hair with small
horns and large bat wings. Once shapeshifted, they can appear as any type
of humanoid they desire, both male or female, as long as the new form
isn't all that different from their original height and weight.
Naturally, their shapeshifted form can have any color hair, eyes andskin
that the succubus chooses.
Ecology:
These demons tend to live among men, and are active mostly at night.
Succubi seduce men (and women) and attempt to turn them to acts of greater
evil in doing so. When not active on the mortal plane, they lair in the
Abyss, where they rule over the lower demons.
Motivations:
A succubus desires to seduce mortals into committing more and greater
evil. They also try to create pacts with mortals, exchanging power and /
or favors in return for mortal souls. As their main purpose is to sow
confusion and create chaos in the mortal world, succubi will try to use
their influence over seduced mortals to urge them to commit acts that the
demon realm would find beneficial (or, particularly cruel and evil).
Combat Techniques:
The succubus tries to avoid open combat, preferring to kill by stealth and
guile. If they so desire, a succubus may drain her target's life force
through her kiss, leaving an empty and dry husk. The succubus can also
mentally dominate others, and usually do so in order to further their
seduction attempts. Succubi can also read the thoughts of others, as well
as hear what is being said remotely, two powers they put to great use when
selecting and corrupting their victims.
As with all demons, the succubus is very hard to harm, and are highly
resistant to magic of all sorts. They are nearly impervious to fire and
lighting as well, and even their naked skin can turn most blades. If
needed, a succubus can gate in another demon, although they tend prefer
summoning lesser demons as opposed to another succubus.
Other Names: Incubus
Rumors:
It is said that a succubus in female form will collect the seed of a man,
transform into a male form and then seduce a woman, implanting the stolen
seed. Children born of such a union are said to be marked and are to be
feared.
Designer's Notes:
As with the Type V (aka Marilith), the succubus includes all the standard
powers of demons, as well as powers specific to the this demon. I did
drop the psionic powers, as well as a few powers that were virtually
identical in Champions terms. Once again I will admit ot not being highly
cost-effective with this write-up, although I will also admit to being
uncertianhow to cnstruct a logical Power Framrework.
A few notes on the powers:
The Characteristics (such as DEX & SPD) might be a bit low. Technically,
the AD&D Teleport allows *any* distance to be traveled, which could easily
be 100 or more points of teleport in Champions terms. As it is, 640" is
almost a mile. Finally, the Summon power does allow the succubus to
summon itself. The AD&D version doesn't, but it *can* summon demon lords
(which are probably 2000 point characters!). Game Masters should feel
free to alter this Summon power to fit their campaign.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Kids -- they're not easy, but there has to be some penalty for sex."
Bill Maher
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:32:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
On Sat, 8 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Back on topic (and the main reason I kept this on list), I think it'd be
> an interesting exercise to come up with a group of characters (heroes, I
> think) based on Yul Brynner movies. One could have the robot gunslinger
> (West World/Future World)
Actually, the character should probably be a human gunslinger (Magnificent
Seven), but he's got a Hunted: there's a robot gunslinger out there that
looks just like him. Sort of an 'Evil Twin' disadvantage. (The
gunslinger from Westworld, IIRC, was wandering around killing people...not
very heroic...)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:41:20 -0400
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
geoff heald wrote:
> Another female brick can be found on the team The Southern Knights (it was
> a small press comic). She looked like a cheerleader but could punch out a
> building.
Yep, the Southern Knights were an interesting team. Only one real
"superhero" on the team, supported and abbetted by an Olympic fencer
with a stun-only psionic lightsaber, the aforementioned beautiful and
rich brick, a retired dragon, and a 17th or 18th century teen
mage-in-training who spent the past coupla centuries sleeping behind
their fireplace.
And the local Viper-equivalent crime boss was another dragon.
- --
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:52:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
On Sun, 9 May 1999, Lance Dyas wrote:
> SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hmmm. This is an interesting discussion; perhaps it would help to
> > focus things if we determined what potions are, how they're made, and how
> > characters use them. Here's the way I'd describe it all:
Here's what I had in my notes for my FH game (reconstructed from memory,
though, so they may not be totally accurate)
Alchemy was handled as a VPP: changes only in appropriate circumstances.
All powers in the pool were required to have the following limitations:
One Charge (can be continuing)
Extra Time (for brewing the potion)
OAF (usually fragile OAF) potion vial
Requires Skill Roll (type of potion) (skill rolled at time of making)
And the advantage Trigger (potion is used - drunk, applied, whatever)
I didn't have to worry about Delayed Effect (or Trigger being used
multiple times), because each potion only had one charge - to brew two
doses of healing potion, you bought the entire power twice, and you were
limited by the points in the Power Pool.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:55:03 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor
Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
> Nope. That was X-Kryptonite...it was the cause of the powers Streaky the
> Supercat exhibited for years.
I always loved the line from Streaky, well thought balloon.
"Yipe, that was darn unfriendly!"
It was from some Legion of Super-Pets story.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:58:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
At 08:32 AM 5/10/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Sat, 8 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> Back on topic (and the main reason I kept this on list), I think it'd be
>> an interesting exercise to come up with a group of characters (heroes, I
>> think) based on Yul Brynner movies. One could have the robot gunslinger
>> (West World/Future World)
>
>Actually, the character should probably be a human gunslinger (Magnificent
>Seven), but he's got a Hunted: there's a robot gunslinger out there that
>looks just like him. Sort of an 'Evil Twin' disadvantage. (The
>gunslinger from Westworld, IIRC, was wandering around killing people...not
>very heroic...)
True, quite true. And the way you have it here does indeed make for an
interesting subplot. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:56 PM