Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 32k
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:30 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #32
champ-l-digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 032
In this issue:
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
[Off-Topic] Racism/Cinderella (Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions))
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Power Questions
Re: Followers/Vechiles/Automatons/AI in a VPP
Re: Layout questions <mark II>
Re: Scorpion like Battle Vehicle
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Need help with plot [long]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:44:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, happyelf wrote:
> qts wrote:
> > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:37:28 -0500 (EST), Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > > However, when they re-did the animation style, updating
> > >characters, they turned bats old' brown eyes blue! We're talking sky
> > >blue! And they made him more pale! Thinner! More chiseled features!
> it was minimalist! gothic! film noir!
The cartoon was already minimalist. Gothic is usually dark, as is
film noir. If they wanted to keep it that way, they wouldn't have
'streamlined' Bruce Wayne and they would have kept the black mattes they
used to animate the series on (they used black mattes for a darker feel,
which they abondoned for the newer series. The new series is much
brighter and four colorish).
> > >It's bad enough that the only Kryptonians we see are caucasian in the
> > >animated series (and in the normal Superman comic book back in the 70's,
> > >the only place on Krypton you'd find black people was on a tiny island
> > >called Vathlo).
> well ermn, isn't that a good thing? based on the setting, and if i remember
> correctlythey were kinda super-advanced. . .?
Ethnic segration is advanced? What's advanced about one race not
interacting with another? Persoanlly, I think super-advanced Kryptonians
would have had no qualms about inter-racial relationships, and by the time
it blew up, you'd have all the seperate 'racial types' of Krypton whipped
up together.
> more realistic that say. . .100% of the homosexual people potrayed being
> hyper-competent, neat and morally perfect? or 100% of women who
How about we start with SOME homsexuals, barring sterotypes...
> are in competition with a man within a scenario winning said contest,
> while said male is depicted as some form of lower primate?
How about the contest in won on merit rather than gender?
> it makes more sence for a hero to know martial arts if they
> are from the area of the world who originated them. And it's unlikely
> from a traditional story pov that the secrets of tai-dim-mak will be
> taught to a select coven of jamacian people in the depths of brooklyn.
Very true... but ethnic sterotypes fall into comics when EVERYONE
in an modern Asian city can go into 'Kung-Fu fighting' like Jackie Chan,
and often when everyone has dated ideas as to what an ethnic Asian city
looks like, it grates on my sensibilities.
...and I agree. While the tai-dim-mak scenerio is possible (in
the most extreme of circumstances), it is highly improbable.
> erm, huh? like most characters motif's aren't culture-based?captain america?
> the fantastic four? thor? all the products of their
> culture. then there's the animal people, who are similarly representitive.
Captain America 'theme' and nation of origin, as well as his
patroitism, are part of his motif. He's not WASP-man. The fact that he
is blond haired and blue eyed doesn't make him any more American (dosen't
make him any less, either). No one doubts that Captain America is no less
Captain America because he is American.
I don't get the Fantastic Four reference. They were people who
were hit with Gamma Rays and got powers.
Thor is a Norse diety. He's Norse. He also comes from a time
before political correctness (though I don't know why he dosen't have RED
hair like he's supposed to).
Animal people are their own thing. The writers can do what they
want with them.
> > Must most Russian hero have some sort of
> > >Nationalist theme?
> if you live in the old ussr, and have super powers, you either join the
> party or get squashed by some guy with a big hammer after
> being hamstrung by a guy with a big sickle. propaganda shapes
> these character. valid, i'd say..
This is why I think heroes should have PR agents... the heroes could have
- -good- propaganda surrounding them, like less cheesy costumes! :)
> how many non-attractive people are there anywhere in fiction?i'd say it's
> a bit of a genre convention. .
...but it's a dated genre. Only thin, attractive, buxom females
get mutant powers? Only muscular, heroic looking males get bitten by
radioactive click-bugs?
...and if your talking about non-superheroic fiction, yes.
Somtimes the heroes are less than handsome.
<snipped very good points>
Good input. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: [Off-Topic] Racism/Cinderella (Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions))
This is offtopic. But several do seem to be following it, and this is my
attempt at a non-flame war ivoking response.
>> What movie is this? I have a new disney Cinderella movie with Witney
>> Houstin as the fairy godmother, and Brandy as Cinderella. But the prince
>> is phillipino, his advisor is white. The stepmother is white. The queen
>> is black, the king is white.
>> Doesn't sound all black to me. Sounds multiracial. Genetically
>> unrealistic in the case of the prince; but it otherwise espouses your
>> "genuinly equal system" as far as race goes. However it seems that when
>> presented with a "genuinly equal system" that doesn't make whites more
>> equal than everyone else; this disturbs you.
>
> You noticed that as well, eh? Actually, I've noticed many (not all,
> not necessarily most, but many) Whites feel this way. They like the
> idea of everything being equal, as long as Whites are just a bit more
> equal than most. I think it's a case of old feelings and ideas dies
> hard.
Maybe my comment was a little harsh and out of line. But the way he
mentioned going off to do Othello seemed to be stating that the only reason
to do a response to a perception about Cinderella.
I don't think it's a white thing; it's a human thing. When a person
grows up as a member of a privilaged group; they are often unaware of this.
Especially when the privillages deal with relatively fine matters being
applied over a long period. It's not part of our nature to see how difficult
what privilages we may have make life for those around us.
My wife comes from a country where 99% of the people are of the same
ethnic group. As a result foriegners are the general target. But having
come from there she did not see this. It been a situation of pointing out
things on a case by case basis and showing this to her. When she go to the US
suddenly she was the target for the time in her life. Her initial reaction
was that american whites were very racist. But I've slowly been able to mirror
it to the way foriegners are treated in her home country.
This same experience, btw; was one I had had many times with the white
americans I met in asia. Being the targets of racism for the first time in their
lives; they felt outrage and all but a few refused to see it for the same
treatment minorities in the US got. Only with a new target. Most non whites I
met over there hardly noticed the difference of going from being a target of
one group to the target of another.
None of that is meant to condone any sort of racism. Merely to highlight
that it is quite real and an unfortunate part of our nature.
>> BTW, music and acting wise; it's the best version of the story I've
>> ever seen.
>
> Most of the credit deserves to go to Rodgers and Hammerstein of
> course. It is their version.
>
> The only thing I really _didn't_ like was Brandy as Cinderella. Her
> voice was fine, but her acting had no real depth to it. Houston was
> good as the godmother, but I would have rather seen an older actress
> play the part. It should have been a bit more grandmotherly, not
> vixen-like. (Though that may be the influence of the cartoon on me.)
I dunno. I kinda liked it the way it was. Though I can see the age
bit for a fairy GODMOTHER. I kinda like Brandy though; so maybe I skipped
a few faults in her acting.
> very good, and Whoopie was great as the queen. Jason Alexander stole it
> for me as the assisstant, however.
He was the show's real treat. The last place I ever expected to see
him was in a musical. And he was good at it. Good enough that he might just
have a career after something as big and 'typecasting' as Sienfeld.
> Yeah, a great production. However, it was no where near controversial,
> IMO.
Yeah. On both counts. Someone else mentioned some other musical version
that was all white. I've never seen or heard of that, so I have no comments on
it. I will mention another musical that has black and white versions.
The wizard of Oz. The old all white version was merely a sign of it's times.
The 70's all black (I think it was all black) one however is purposefully set
up as a racial parody and could be seen as racist. Though it is comedy; which
is often both the birth of civil movements, and typically the last holdout for
prejudice. Sometimes in the same example.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:53:29 +1000
From: m <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Jason Sullivan wrote:
> > > >It's bad enough that the only Kryptonians we see are caucasian in the
> > > >animated series (and in the normal Superman comic book back in the 70's,
> > > >the only place on Krypton you'd find black people was on a tiny island
> > > >called Vathlo).
> > well ermn, isn't that a good thing? based on the setting, and if i remember
> > correctlythey were kinda super-advanced. . .?
> Ethnic segration is advanced? What's advanced about one race not
> interacting with another? Persoanlly, I think super-advanced Kryptonians
> would have had no qualms about inter-racial relationships, and by the time
> it blew up, you'd have all the seperate 'racial types' of Krypton whipped
> up together.
>
well, that's an elitist view of history. . the idea that anyone truly
'advanced'would be behaving the way we think is right. the group had good
background-
a 'lost land' of techniologically advanced persons, fit in well with the
'pulp adventure' style of the whole tales of krypton deal. To say that all
advanced
cultures are automatically polotically correct is a fallacy. For all WE know,
kryptonians may have actually been a seperate species from the valtho. . .
do they STILL have to live together in harmony, tra la la la la? where do
you draw the line?
> > more realistic that say. . .100% of the homosexual people potrayed being
> > hyper-competent, neat and morally perfect? or 100% of women who
> How about we start with SOME homsexuals, barring sterotypes...
> > are in competition with a man within a scenario winning said contest,
> > while said male is depicted as some form of lower primate?
> How about the contest in won on merit rather than gender?
>
> > it makes more sence for a hero to know martial arts if they
> > are from the area of the world who originated them. And it's unlikely
> > from a traditional story pov that the secrets of tai-dim-mak will be
> > taught to a select coven of jamacian people in the depths of brooklyn.
> Very true... but ethnic sterotypes fall into comics when EVERYONE
> in an modern Asian city can go into 'Kung-Fu fighting' like Jackie Chan,
> and often when everyone has dated ideas as to what an ethnic Asian city
> looks like, it grates on my sensibilities.
> ...and I agree. While the tai-dim-mak scenerio is possible (in
> the most extreme of circumstances), it is highly improbable.
>
> > erm, huh? like most characters motif's aren't culture-based?captain america?
> > the fantastic four? thor? all the products of their
> > culture. then there's the animal people, who are similarly representitive.
> Captain America 'theme' and nation of origin, as well as his
> patroitism, are part of his motif. He's not WASP-man. The fact that he
> is blond haired and blue eyed doesn't make him any more American (dosen't
> make him any less, either). No one doubts that Captain America is no less
> Captain America because he is American.
> I don't get the Fantastic Four reference. They were people who
> were hit with Gamma Rays and got powers.
> Thor is a Norse diety. He's Norse. He also comes from a time
> before political correctness (though I don't know why he dosen't have RED
> hair like he's supposed to).
> Animal people are their own thing. The writers can do what they
> want with them.
>
> > > Must most Russian hero have some sort of
> > > >Nationalist theme?
> > if you live in the old ussr, and have super powers, you either join the
> > party or get squashed by some guy with a big hammer after
> > being hamstrung by a guy with a big sickle. propaganda shapes
> > these character. valid, i'd say..
>
> This is why I think heroes should have PR agents... the heroes could have
> -good- propaganda surrounding them, like less cheesy costumes! :)
>
> > how many non-attractive people are there anywhere in fiction?i'd say it's
> > a bit of a genre convention. .
> ...but it's a dated genre. Only thin, attractive, buxom females
> get mutant powers? Only muscular, heroic looking males get bitten by
> radioactive click-bugs?
> ...and if your talking about non-superheroic fiction, yes.
> Somtimes the heroes are less than handsome.
>
> <snipped very good points>
>
> Good input. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Power Questions
On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> > Creating Solid Objects: The character can concentrate and eventually
> > produce a solid object. I'm thinking Transform, Major, Cumulative, Limted
> > Class of Objects (simple technological devices). Limitations to include
> > Extra Time, Concentrate, No Range and Activation.
> >
> > Now, how do people feel about this sort of power application? The
> > character could summon things like flashlights, a baseball bat, a handgun
> > and other 'simple items'. Do people feel this is an abuse of Transform?
> > If not, should I use the Body listing in the Champions book to determine
> > how long it takes to create something? If this sort of power *is*
> > abusive, I presume a gadget Power pool is the way to go.
>
> I'd do it as a variant gadget pool, personally - assuming of course that
> it's a superheroic game and thus players have to pay points for equipment.
> If they don't, I might be tempted to use Transform, just because it'd be
> faster/easier (and for that matter less abusive - it's one thing to create
> a sword out of nothing in a Fantasy Hero game, but to be able to do it in
> a Supers game where that attack would normally cost you points is a bit
> off)
Hmmm... this is a character ment to be built on a superheroic scale, so
the Gadget Pool looks like the way to go.
> > Mass Mind Control: If you have an Area of Effect Mind Control and use Mind
> > Scanning to locate a mind to affect, then you should be able to hit
> > everyone in the Radius of Effect even though you didn't locate these minds
> > in the first place?
>
> Um...sure, as long as the AE wasn't Selective or Nonselective. You'd
> center the AE on the person you've found, and control everyone around them
> as well.
Well, it should work with Nonselective as well, but I agree that Selective
shouldn't be allowed.
> > Extra-Dimensional Movement: First, if somone can create a 'gate' (I plan
> > on using the Mystica Master/USM gate modifiers for this) big enough to
> > 'drive a truck through' one would use a simple mass multiple to represent
> > this, right? You don't need Area of Effect, right?
>
> Hmm. At first glance, it looks like you would need AE, /but/ after
> thinking about it a bit, I don't think you would. After all, if you could
> take the truck with you using EDM without the Gate modifiers, then unless
> something in the Gate power limitations prohibits it, you should be able
> to drive it through the gate with you as well.
I was trying to figure out if there was a size issue with EDM or is it
just mass.
> Doesn't the Gate power already include AE: One Hex or something? I don't
> own either book so I don't have the writeup...
I'll have to check later.
> > Second - is EDM: Mars abusive? Or should I buy just insane amounts of
> > teleport?
>
> Assuming that the gate or whatever can only go to Mars, I think that this
> is a fine use of the power. I suppose you could buy lots of teleport with
> the limitation 'Only to Mars and back', but since the ability to go from
> Earth to Mars is more like the ability to go from Earth to, say,
> Pellucidar than it is teleportation*, I'd let you use EDM.
Okay.
> * - EDM has no direct control over the destination - you'd presumably go
> to an analogous point on Mars to the point on Earth & vice versa, because
> otherwise you could use it as a teleport-substitute**.
>
> ** - "Hmm, I need to go from Florida to Canada. I'll teleport to Mars and
> then back..." - that's abusive if you're buying it as EDM.
Yeah, that's abusive. The idea is the EDM opens a gate to Mars and on the
Earth side the gate is locked to one place.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:04:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Followers/Vechiles/Automatons/AI in a VPP
On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 opal@technologist.com wrote:
> > Summoned creatures not necessarily "friendly", summoned creatures
> > not specific unique creatures specifically "trained" by the spawner to
> > assist in specific tasks.
>
> Niether are critters you grow in a vat... the mad
> scientist's creation turning on him is classic...
> well, or a cliche, at any rate.
I'm thinking more along the lines of Temco's _Monster Rancher_.
Trained creatures are friendly, and are trained to be so... After all,
the concept could be one brain, many bodies... and you could have an
extremely well trained, specific brain. The bodies need to be made, but
the brain stays the same.
> > And since he would be able to build just about
> > anything, and model it to the point of painful clarity [violating the
> > Summoning rule of 'roughly outlined creatures'] the prices get
> > awfully steep. ...and how will a Dispell or Supress Summon 'return the
> > creature home?'
>
> The F/X of Summon doesn't have to be calling a critter
> from a different place - it could be creating it from
> nothing... and 'returning' it could simply be exploiting
> some weakness in the creation process to destroy the
> critter.
...and what about the SFX of Summon clashing with the SFX of
Dispel: Summon? How is Bogart's Benificent Banishment going to 'undo'
Jungle Guy's animal followers or Artie Stein's stiched up dolphin-man?
> > MECH VPP
> > > Buy them. You get 2x the number of followers for +5 points. Besides, if he
> > > has a bunch of mechs in his garage/hanger/whatever you call the building mechs
> > > hang out in, then wouldn't others be able to come in and use some of them?
> > MECHS are vechiles, and since each MECH would be a distinctive
> > vechile with different powers, ye would need to pay full price for each
> > MECH, even if the variance in powers was as simple as the lack of JumpJets
> > and the addition of a Submersible Rig.
>
> I don't think that's how it works... or at least, I'd
> say it's also a valid interpretation to say that each
> follower can be different - they're just all built on
> the same points. At least there's nothing I've seen
> yet to indicate otherwise. So, you could have rather
> a varied fleet at your disposal.
>
> > The MECHs are stored away, and
> > often times are simply the same MECH chassis modified for a specific
> > situation.
>
> Or, you could use Multiform, VPP, or Multipower to
> customize a single MECH.
Can Automatons themselves have Power Frameworks?
> > > > Automaton VPP: BoneLord the Necromancer lives in the Valley of Skulls,
> > > > where he may animate any number of strange sketeal creatures to do his
> > > > bidding.
> > > Summon.
> > Again, not 'friendly.' Also, they're automatons, not truly
> > creatures, and while I wouldn't split hairs in a game, the book states,
> > under Summon, that you can only Summon 'a creature' with the basest of
> > human stats and perceptions for 30 points. There are no guidelines for
> > Automaton Summoning as of yet in the 'offical' HERO rules.
>
> OK, point taken. Still, it's a lot less of a stretch
> to Summon automata than to put followers in a VPP.
> Afterall, Automata have point totals, just like
> creatures.
...but Automatons are built differently than Summoned creatures.
> > Also, Dispel and Supress Summon come to mind.
>
> Actually, vs the Undead legions of a Necromancer,
> Suppress and Dispell make a *lot* of sense.
For a holy spell or a magical sispell summon.
> > > > AI VPP: MainFrame the TechnoLord can construct a variety of operating
> > > > systems with a number of programs and bring them into sentience with
> > > > his uncanny mutant abilities.
> > >
> > > Um... Summon.
> > Same as above, except non sentient AI's have no chance of
> > 'rebelling', and can not be 'friendly' or 'hostile' since they're
> > hardware.
>
> Non sentient AI's? But you said 'bring them into
> sentience' so I suppose that once they're sentient,
> they're free willed, to some extent. Though I'm not
> sure if your talking about some sort of followers that
> exist like Netrunners in some computer-web virtual
> reality like in Cyberpunk fiction, or just creating
> multiple computers...
My error... they start off as 'Computers' who are non sentient...
Transform changes them into sentient programs temporarily.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:54:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Layout questions <mark II>
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> OK, most (though not all) of this is from video games, and not all of it
> is really "wild martial arts stuff" (a few bits are just things I've seen
> that aren't clearly defined in Hero); some of it will be relatively easy to
> model, while some will be more difficult:
I certainly hope Mike doesn't mind me sticking in my 2c - especially if it
gives him ideas.
> Bouncing a thrown weapon off multiple targets, doing damage to each.
> (OK, I'll admit that Xena is my best example of this, but I've seen other
> examples of it as well.)
I can think of several ways to do this. The first would simply be an AE:
Any, Selective on your attack power. You'd probably want Indirect as
well, since you could presumably ricochet the whatever off of a wall/the
ground/whatever to start off with. Hmm - actually, you'd want the full
level of indirect, with a minor limitation on it: 'knockback points away
from last hit'
The second way, which is a bit more 'realistic' (ha ha) would be some sort
of variant on Autofire, with the limitation 'only one consecutive hit per
target' (meaning that one could not hit a target 5 times in a row - the
whatever would have to hit something else first. One could continuously
bounce the whatever between the target and a wall, I s'pose...) and of
course, Fully Indirect as described above.
> Directly and intentionally damaging an opponent's weapon -- slicing a
> sword's blade, cutting the haft of an axe, chopping a quarterstaff in two,
> etc.
Wouldn't this already be covered under 'damage to Foci' rules?
> Doing Knockback straight upward with an initial strike, and then
> following it up with a powerful blow while your opponent is still in the
> air so that a lot of Knockback is done by the second one.
Hmm. I can almost see this as two Linked powers - the first one is the
'initial strike', the second the followup - the second strike can have
'Requires To-Hit Roll' if you like.
Alternately, try this construct:
Attack Power, KB straight up.
Attack Power #2, Trigger (hitting with first attack power)
You'd have to take an action to 'set up' the trigger, but it would
effectively allow you to get both attacks in the same phase. You might
also put on a limitation 'trigger must be set off next phase' so you don't
have people setting up the trigger and walking around with it set up for
hours (which makes no sense in this case)
Alternately, could just be SFX for a big, x2KB attack.
> Hit your opponent so hard that his armor falls off. (I think this one
> actually got its start in "Peanuts.")
> Jumping up and down on an opponent who's knocked down.
Do we really need a separate power for this? I'd just call it some sort of
strike maneuver, and give the prone/dazed/whatever combatant the
appropriate minuses to DCV. And if you're hitting him hard enough to do
KB, he'll of course take that too.
Speaking of which, are there rules for doing extra damage when the target
is 'braced' against something? Or would that just effectively be the KB
damage?
> Pile driver -- Grab the opponent, Superleap up in the air, and do a Move
> Through on the ground landing on your opponent's head. ("Elelator go up...
> elelator go down the hole!")
I'd build it as a Martial Arts maneuver - some sort of damaging Sacrifice
throw, since you both wind up on the ground.
> Slicing something with a sword (or similarly bladed weapon) so finely
> that the damage isn't noticed until the target is moved or used in some way.
Hmm...interesting one. Here's a couple ideas:
* Invisible SFX: invisible to touch - they don't feel themselves getting
hit, possibly combined with a 'Does no STUN' limitation - if they didn't
feel the sword slicing through them, it must not have hurt very much.
* Time Delay and/or Trigger - you do the attack, but nothing happens (or
seems to happen) until the unlucky target moves. Then, wham! they get
hit with the damage from the attack.
> Using a sword as a stilt for a defensive move, so that an opponent's
> legsweep (or other below-the-hips attack) ends up damaging the attacking
> opponent.
SFX for a Damage Shield power, I'd think. I'd do something like this:
xd6 Damage Shield, Requires successful block roll (-1/2, probably more
since it's effectively not a Constant power anymore, you have to actively
use it), only for below the waist attacks (-whatever, get an equivalent
activation roll from the Armor charts), and possibly 'damage done based on
Attacker's strength' (I'd call it a -0). Oh yeah, and whatever modifiers
you have on your sword, like OAF, etc. Buy it up to 2x your 'normal'
sword damage, and it'll act just like the guy took your sword and attacked
himself with it.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Scorpion like Battle Vehicle
On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Silky the Wonder Pimp wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> I am rather new to the list and champions. If anyone cares I am located
> down in columbia, SC.
>
> I was curious how someone would build a scorpion litle vehicle in the
> champions system. I was thinking about giving it the power of Extra
> limbs for the legs and possibley for two claw like arms. I assume I
> would have to buy the power Charaistic STR seperately for the claws.
>
> Is this right? Any thoughts or suggestions?
Here is a spider/scorpion-like vehicle from my anime-cyberpunk game
KUMO (SPIDER) INFILTRATION MECHA
Val CHA Cost Notes
30 STR 10 1600kg
14 BODY 2
2 SIZE 10
9 DEF 21
21 DEX 33 OCV: 7 / DCV: 6
4 SPD 9 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
Total Characteristics Cost: 90
Movement: Ground: 10" / 40"
Swinging: 8"
Abilities and Equipment
Mecha Body Abilities:
7.62mm Machinegun Pod: RKA 2d6+1, Autofire 10, +1 Stun, +1 OCV,
+2 RMod, 200 Shots, OIF, Limited Arc of Fire: 60 degrees (-1/2),
(43) [200c]
Heads Up Display: +1 OCV with Ranged Combat (5)
Heads Up Display: +2 RMod with Ranged Combat (6)
Mecha Limbs: Clinging (10)
Mecha Hands: Extra Limbs (Hands) (5)
Movement:
Running: +2", x4 NCM (10" total) (9)
Climbing Cable and Pulley: Swinging: 8", Uses accessible, external
cable (-1/2) (5)
Climbing Cable and Pulley: Stretching: 8", No-noncombat
stretch (-1/4), Can only be used for ascending/descending
building and walls (-2) (12)
Shielded Optics: Flash Defense 7 pts (7)
Life Support: Sealed Systems, Heat/Cold (13)
Communications Gear and Sensors:
Coded Transmitter: Mind Link: Related Group (any other Kumo
Infiltration Mecha), One mecha at a time, Mecha must have Coded
Transmitter installed (-1) (5)
Internal Clock: Absolute Time Sense (3)
Internal Locator: Bump of Direction (3)
Internal Radio: High Range Radio Hearing (10)
Low-light Amplifier: UV Vision (5)
Thermographic Sensors: IR Vision (5)
Thermographic Sensors: N Ray Vision, IR Vision only (-1/2), Only
through relatively thin walls, or in areas of high heat
contrasts (13)
Thermographic Sensors: Tracking Scent (IR Vision) (10)
Ultrasonic Hearing (3)
Telescopic Hearing, +4 vs Range Mods (6)
Telescopic Vision, +4 vs Range Mods (6)
Total Abilities and Equipment Cost: 184
Total Vehicle Cost: 274
Disadvantages:
Physical Limitation: Can't Punch (10)
Physical Limitation: Requires specialized piloting suit (10)
Description:
The Kumo infiltration mecha (the name means "spider" in Japanese) is a
multi-legged, insect-shaped mecha. They are designed to sit low to the
ground and move either by their legs, or a set of recessed wheels. Kumo
are noted for being very agile (as far as mecha go), although their armor
is rather thin in order to make this possible.
The primary use of the Kumo is infiltration, security and anti-terrorist
work. To further this end, Kumo come equipped with an extensive sensor
package, enabling them to operate in almost any environment. The Kumo's
thermographic sensors are its most important feature, as they are
sensitive enough to pick up heat traces through thins walls or other
cover, as well as traces up to several hours old.
To assist in infiltration, Kumo utilize a rear-mounted cable and
grappling hook that allows them to ascend and descend buildings with ease.
With a little practice, the pilot of a Kumo can use these cables to swing
the machine across wide open spaces. The cable system uses an automatic
braking and retrieval system that will recover the cable within seconds of
release.
For offensive purposes, the Kumo mounts a 7.62mm machine gun in a pod just
under the "head". This weapon uses a 200-round belt and can fire on any
target within the mecha's front arc.
A Kumo stands about three feet high, is ten feet long and weighs close to
800 pounds. There are two three-fingered grippers on the front of the
machine, useful for grabbing and manipulating objects, but too fragile to
fight with. The mecha can be of any color, and are often painted in some
sort of camouflage pattern. About the only drawback to the mecha is that
its extensive electronics and piloting systems require the pilot to have
some form of direct neural interface (such as a Datajack or Vehicle
Control Link) in order to operate it properly.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:04:26 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 12:13 PM 8/20/1998 -0500, Michael Nunn wrote:
> >When I created the Super team Rising Force for Herozine, I tried to go
> >against as many stereotypes as I could. The team leader and Martial Artist,
> >is a Latino, woman, who just happens to be a rocket scientist, she Catholic.
> >The team Mentalist is a black man, who loves Bob Marley, and secretly county
> >music and is Jewish.
> >The team Mage is from Scotland and is into Heavy Metal music, and is
> >Agnostic.
> >The team energy projector is a Blonde Haired Blue eyed beauty... she is also
> >a card caring member of the NRA and a devoted listener of Rush Limbaugh and
> >she's from Boston.
>
> You're giving me some info here that I didn't have before (and I've not
> only read, but given "official" expansions of, these characters). I didn't
> know that Dreadmon was Jewish (any Davises in his family?), or that Gun
> Bunny likes Rush (though it makes sense, given her view on guns) and is
> from Boston.
> Ascension isn't just a Latina, by the way; by her original description,
> she's half Latina, and half Philipino. While she does know Escrima like
> any good comic-book Philipino, she also knows boxing, karate, and a couple
> of others.
>
> >The team brain, and general do all is a 12 year old Japanese American boy,
> >who loves the Power Rangers.
> >The brick of the group is the only stereotypical member, he is a white, male
> >who can fly and is very strong, he is also half alien.
> >The team also has a half demon, half angel, androgenis (sp?)member.
> >The speedster is a Bi-Sexual female, boy is she fast...
> >And finally another female member who doesn't have all that great personal
> >hygene.
>
> I suppose that's one charitable way of describing GrungeGrrl.... :-]
>
> >Eclectic? you bet, diverse? you bet, the first letter I got about them said
> >"This bunch could never work together."
>
> And that was before the last three joined up.
>
> >What do you think?
>
> When I choose to address stereotypes at all, I try to skewer them. I
> don't go against them per se so much as give odd little twists.
> In some science-fiction stories I've written (and will one day publish),
> I have a medical specialist who is Native American and likes to use herbal
> medicine. The twist is that he adheres to Chinese herbal medicine. He's
> also fond of announcing with a mysterious air, "Here's a trick my
> grandfather taught me, that his grandfather taught him," and then doing
> something based on twentieth-century technology (like lighting a fire with
> a butane lighter).
> There are also two characters who are old friends, one a large black man
> and the other a Vietnamese woman who emigrated to the United States as a
> little girl. It turns out that she's a lot tougher in a fight than he is
> -- and she *doesn't* know any martial arts, other than the Commando
> Training she learned in the military.
> Then there's the guy who grew up in rural Tennessee as part of an
> extremely large family; he's the chief engineer, and he's very good at it
> to. (Of course, it helps somewhat that his father was one of the country's
> most successful industrialists.)
> Coming back around to RPG characters, my Seattle NPC hero group, Second
> Authority, has an interesting twist on racial issues. They get a lot of
> criticism because, with the exception of one member who is an alien, its
> membership is all-white. However, this is a misperception; the
> power-suited leader (who is female) and a member who goes into action as a
> blue, four-armed Creature are both African-American. They just can't
> reveal this fact, or it would compromise their Secret IDs.
> Oh, and the Creature has none of the typical African-American
> stereotypes. He listens to Mozart and Liszt, loves to crack puns, and is
> the top computer expert at the corporation which sponsors Second Authority.
Ok, since we've started down this thread I might as well continue it. I like
using cliches's and stereotypes as a starting point, then mixing something to
throw the characters off when they assume the stereotype applies. I have a
martial artist who's mother is from Argentina and father is Japanese. A negro
civil rights lawyer who's also a flying brick. A computer expert energy
projector intravert who's out to destroy both Primus and Viper. A hot headed
college football star fire elemental. A Primus agent wanna be mutant flying
brick and an Irish police officer lycanthrope. How are these for sterotypes with
a twist.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Need help with plot [long]
On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >> [snipping anything from this fascinating post that I'm not responding to
> >> directly]
> >
> >Fascinating? Really?
>
> Absolutely. I'd love to see a chronicle of how this works out.
I'll see what I can do. Hmm... remember when I was asking about strange
vanishings and the idea of setting normal people into a fantasy world and
giving them powers? I've actually run that one (once), I could offer a
summery of how that is working out.
> >> >PLOT NOTES: Why did they kill TJ? A: Because he was in the way. Why now?
> >> >A: Uh... because the stars are right? RD feels it's the 'right time'?
> >> >This isn't as important. 2033 isn't the anniversary of much of anything
> >> >as far as Amara goes. No...wait, she's been in the AMP 5 years as of
> >> >now... is RD that sort of sick bastard?
> >>
> >> I'm answering these as I read the post, and this would seem like a good
> >> way to tie in Tenchi as the artifact Hwu Dye is after. They killed TJ
> >> because that would bring his father, and his father has Tenchi.
> >
> >TJ is a former PC who is getting axed becuase the player is no longer in
> >the country and becuase I needed a way to write him out of the current
> >game. I'd rather *not* cneter large portions of the plot around him.
> >Amara will be a reaccurring character (I hope). I'd like to link this to
> >a PC directly if I can...
>
> Actually, it might be a decent "last hurrah" for the character,
> especially if the character was a good one.
No... people didn't care for the method used to build the character.
Several people are more than happy to see him go.
> >> If you're really sold on TJ being "just in the wrong place," then my
> >> idea (Tenchi being The Artifact) won't work. But please consider the idea;
> >> I think it'd be an interesting (and classic) twist, especially if not
> >> revealed until near the end of the story.
> >
> >Yes, but as I said, it clashes with some pre-established stuff created way
> >back when... I'm not to crazy about pulling a Marvel trick and redoing
> >history elements like this.
>
> You could always do it like on The Highlander, where they add stuff to
> Macleod's background without disturbing the rest. For instance, in this
> case, the essence (or soul, or what have you) could have been trapped at
> some point in the sword's history after its creation.
Hmmm... possibly.
> However, using the PC-owned artifact as The Artifact (which you
> described as a possibility in a portion is snipped) would still work out
> better. It gives a more solid and personal connection to the events.
Yeah, I'm hoping for this angle.
> >> My thought in this case is to present the PCs with a bone of contention
> >> between the two main baddies, and let them run with it if they pick up on
> >> it. Even if they don't, things can deteriorate enough to give the PCs a
> >> hole to punch through.
> >
> >Yeah, well, the trick here is figuring out what the bone is.
> It could be that each side secretly intends to betray the other. This
> is yet another staple of the genre, almost to the point of being cliche
> (and it may even be well over that line). She intends to keep The Artifact
> to keep him under her sway, while he intends to rise to absolute power and
> obliterate her... then the PCs can reveal to each the plot of the other,
> and go hide under a very large rock until the blasts die down.
I noticed that in Silent Mobius the various baddies screw each other over
*constantly*! One of the monsters pics a fight with one of the officers,
looses and a second monster blows him away. A sorcerer has his apprentice
distract the good guys, and when he distraction runs its course the
sorcerer blows him away. A sorcerer gets some woman to aid him complete
a spell, and when she talks to the good guys he sacrifices her to the
monsters (creepy scene BTW). A sorcerer a monster and a sorcererss
combine to whack the good guys and the sorceress fries the sorcerer, only
to find that the sorcerer had swapped bodies with the monster, so he turns
around and sics his pet sorceress on the first sorceress!
<whew>
This cliche is very much a standard for the series.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #32
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Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 02:57 PM