Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 332
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 10:15 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #332
champ-l-digest Monday, May 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 332
In this issue:
Re: How much can I lift?
Re: Yul Brynner (et al)
Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
Re: Godzilla (was How much can I lift?)
Re: How much can I lift?
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
Re: Female Bricks (was CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks)
Re: Alchemist
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
Re: How much can I lift?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:12:15 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: How much can I lift?
At 06:40 PM 5/10/99 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>At 06:08 PM 5/10/99 -0400, chrisopher spoor wrote:
>><<Okay.... if a character has a 250 STR, what is there lifting capacity?
>>I ground t a hault somewhere around 800 Gigatons (what's after that?).
>>
>>25 metric teratons (or, 25000 metric gigatons) >>
>>
>>How does this compare to the weight of the earth? How many can he
>>juggle? :)
>>
>
>According to the 1999 World Almanac, the Earth weighs about
>6,590,000,000,000,000,000,000 short tons, which is
>5,977,130,000,000,000,000,000 metric tons; It's easier just to say about 6
>zettatons.
>
>In the days before I forgot how to do logs, I once calculated how much STR
>would be required to lift that mass - I think about 400 STR. Consequently,
>somewhere I have a write-up of the Pre-Crisis Superman with STR in that area.
Yeah I built a guy called Ironmonger who had STR of 150 and 250 TK strength
(lets him do things like pick up the Sphinx without shattering it, etc)
with no range, a contact TK that they used for Superboy (seems like every
idea I have gets used before I can publish it :(( oh well). He could not
punch for the full 400 STR, but he could crush someone to the tune of 80D6,
however, which atomizes anything he can wrap his hands around (large hands,
but he was only 9 feet tall). He was an alien who crash landed, and
couldn't communicate in any way humans were comfortable with, and the
heroes basically couldnt hurt him, they had to find a way to deal with him
that wasnt beat to a paste.
He demolished half the city trying to build words out of mangled buildings
and such in gigantic sculptures, which nobody could read.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:17:13 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Yul Brynner (et al)
At 01:08 PM 5/10/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 03:30 PM 5/10/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>>Other actors who I think might be interesting to do this sort of thing
>>with: Errol Flynn, Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, Rutger Hauer, Harrison Ford,
>>Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi, Alec Guiness, Sean Connery, Mark Lenard,
>>Christopher Lloyd, Kurt Russell, Kenneth Branaugh. Some action favorites
>>wouldn't work particularly well, though - Clint Eastwood's characters
>>really don't have that wide a range of abilities.
>
> Possibilities I can think of offhand (and each probably has more movies
>that would be good source material that I just don't know of):
>
> Rutger Hauer - Blade Runner, Ladyhawke, Blind Fury
Three very promising forms - an android brick, a medieval warrior, and a
martial artist. He's also played a skilled modern mercenary on more than
one occasion, a vampire in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a couple other
medieval or ancient warriors, and I think he was some kind of unstoppable
alien killing machine in "I Come in Peace", though I never saw it.
> Christopher Lloyd - Back to the Future, Star Trek II, Deadly Games [TV
>series], My Favorite Martian
He was also an alien in Buckaroo Banzaii, Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger
Rabbit, and Uncle Fester in the Addams Family movies. Lloyd's burnt out
Reverend Jim Ignatowski form (from Taxi) wouldn't have much power to offer,
but it would be pretty good for undercover work.
And speaking of Star Trek, I included Mark Lenard in my list because he
played not only Spock's father Sarek but also a Romulan (in the original
series, prior to playing Sarek) and a Klingon Captain (in the first ST
film.) And since you suggested Roddy McDowall, I'll mention that (as I just
found out) Lenard played an ape in the Planet of the Apes TV series.
> I'm not sure about the others you listed, though with Kurt Russell you'd
>have not only his more recent action flicks, but some earlier Disney movies
>too (like The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes).
>
Yes, those Disney movies would be a great source of super-powered forms.
Kurt was "the Strongest Man in the World", turned invisible (I think in
"The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes), and I'm sure did a lot of other wacky
stuff. Plus, there'd be enormous potential for humorous role-playing in
going from the unbearable wholesome Dexter Riley to "Snake" Pliskin.
> I've also had the concept of having a group of superpowered NPCs (not
>sure whether heroes or villains -- probably just over-obsessed fans) based
>on Elvis Presley songs. I was thinking of Jailhouse Rock (martial artist),
>Teddy Bear (brick with a big squeeze of a hug), All Shook Up (vibration
>powers), Way Down (tunneler), and The Great Pretender (shapeshifter) to
>start.
One or more of them could have Enraged if anyone steps on their blue suede
shoes. And how about Hound Dog - either someone with canine powers, or with
a Transform (inevitably accompanied by the words "You ain't nothin' but a
hound dog")?
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:59:28 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
At 07:17 PM 5/10/1999 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>At 01:08 PM 5/10/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> Christopher Lloyd - Back to the Future, Star Trek II, Deadly Games [TV
>>series], My Favorite Martian
>
>He was also an alien in Buckaroo Banzaii, Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger
>Rabbit, and Uncle Fester in the Addams Family movies. Lloyd's burnt out
>Reverend Jim Ignatowski form (from Taxi) wouldn't have much power to offer,
>but it would be pretty good for undercover work.
I don't know how I forgot about Judge Doom. I never would've really
considered Uncle Fester, nor Reverend Jim, until your points here; yes,
Fester would have some interesting abilities, though I'm really only
familiar with the Jackie Coogan version (not even the original guy from
Charles Addams' comic strip).
I didn't know about the Buckaroo Banzai connection.
I wonder if anything could be drawn from his roles in Suburban Commando
(with Hulk Hogan) or Clue?
>And speaking of Star Trek, I included Mark Lenard in my list because he
>played not only Spock's father Sarek but also a Romulan (in the original
>series, prior to playing Sarek) and a Klingon Captain (in the first ST
>film.) And since you suggested Roddy McDowall, I'll mention that (as I just
>found out) Lenard played an ape in the Planet of the Apes TV series.
A look at the Internet Movie Database ( www.imdb.com ) could probably
turn up a whole load of interesting bits for all of these.
>> I'm not sure about the others you listed, though with Kurt Russell you'd
>>have not only his more recent action flicks, but some earlier Disney movies
>>too (like The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes).
>>
>Yes, those Disney movies would be a great source of super-powered forms.
>Kurt was "the Strongest Man in the World", turned invisible (I think in
>"The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes), and I'm sure did a lot of other wacky
>stuff. Plus, there'd be enormous potential for humorous role-playing in
>going from the unbearable wholesome Dexter Riley to "Snake" Pliskin.
My thoughts exactly. (I'd been going to mention "The Strongest Man in
the World," but couldn't remember the title.)
>> I've also had the concept of having a group of superpowered NPCs (not
>>sure whether heroes or villains -- probably just over-obsessed fans) based
>>on Elvis Presley songs. I was thinking of Jailhouse Rock (martial artist),
>>Teddy Bear (brick with a big squeeze of a hug), All Shook Up (vibration
>>powers), Way Down (tunneler), and The Great Pretender (shapeshifter) to
>>start.
>
>One or more of them could have Enraged if anyone steps on their blue suede
>shoes. And how about Hound Dog - either someone with canine powers, or with
>a Transform (inevitably accompanied by the words "You ain't nothin' but a
>hound dog")?
Oh, how could I have forgotten about Hound Dog? That was the first one
I came up with when I originally thought of the idea (I was leaning toward
canine powers for him at the time).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:37:11 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Godzilla (was How much can I lift?)
At 09:17 PM 5/10/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: How much can I lift?
>
>It's needs to be stronger than Godzilla (115 STR) and Grond (90 STR). I'm
>thinking 250 is a bit too much... so maybe 150 STR. Ypu see, dholes
>really do *eat* planets (abet from the inside out) and in the CoC game are
>given a damage bonus of "Can crush a battleship". Maybe 30d6 from the 150
>STR and some extra dice of HA to represent sheer mass?
>
>Yes, this is an excersize in the immense.
Along these same lines, and speaking of Godzilla, just how many levels
of Growth would ol' Big, Green, and Scaly have? (I'm thinking here of the
original one from the Japanese movies, not the one from the recent movies
nor either of the two animated shows. This is for a similar-sized creature
I'm building, by the name of Dairisu.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:00:27 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How much can I lift?
At 06:08 PM 5/10/1999 -0400, chrisopher spoor wrote:
><<Okay.... if a character has a 250 STR, what is there lifting capacity?
>I ground t a hault somewhere around 800 Gigatons (what's after that?).
>
>25 metric teratons (or, 25000 metric gigatons) >>
>
>How does this compare to the weight of the earth? How many can he
>juggle? :)
According to my Britannica, Earth has a mass of just under 6X10^27
grams, which comes to 6 zottatons.
Kilo - Mega - Giga - Tera - Exa - Yotta - Zotta - Banana Nana Fo Fotta
(I'm *reasonably* sure I got that right -- except the last one, of
course.) ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:49:19 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
At 02:39 PM 5/10/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>Personally, I don't like the idea of decoupling figureds, but that wasn't
>what I was arguing per se.
[Gives Wayne a round of applause for spelling "per se" correctly.]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 10 May 1999 20:32:35 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
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* "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Mon, 10 May 1999
| Why do I get that ability for free, while you pay 9 points for the
| privelege? Doesn't that strike you as a bit unfair? Why aren't spells
| counted as 'common equipment'? Where is the line drawn between 'common
| equipment' and 'stuff that must be paid for'?
In a world in which simple spells are the norm and swords are rare,
everyone gets some simple spell casting ability for free -- an everyman
ability -- while a character with a sword would have to pay character
points for the privelege. The utility of a sword in such a world is not
the determining factor. It is the nature of the world that specifies the
demarcation.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> I missed (accidentally deleted) the first part of this conversation, but
> (assuming nobody else already mentioned it) I think this is relevent. There
> was a comics mini-series (or was it a short-lived series) in the 80's
> called Silverblade which featured an old actor who could assume the form
> and abilities of any character he'd ever played. He'd been an Errol Flynn
> type in his early days, had played monsters in 40's horror movies, an so
> on, so he had quite a range of abilities to chose from. That could work
> nicely in Champions (with Multiform or Shapeshift & VPP), and could be even
I have a character called the Swashbuckler who was a 1930-1940's
actor with a public ID who was "master of the sword" (spawned from a
on-list topic I spawned called "The Untimate Swashbuckler.")
His arch nemesis, Stan Jaeckel, who acted as a spy for the US and
stole plans for an experimental "fear" weapon became the Master of Terror,
who encorporated horror themes into his costume. A rival actor, he
eventually got the Swashbuckler blacklisted for being a communist. He,
himself, eventually became an infulential politician, until the side
effects of his fear gadgetry drove him insane.
Both characters are encorporated into the fictional account of the
world's history, and in their individual histories I included the world's
"history of Hollywood" alternate timeline (which I'm still polishing). It
includes Hollywoods most heniously notorious moments and a number of
"changes" in movie trends, including types of movies and casts...
Including Bela Lugosi's recasting in Dracula... with Lon Chaney as
Count Dracula (in his last starring role before his death)!
Media, cinema, and literary fiction have major effects on my game
world, and are vastly different due to the events that transpired...
...do you modify from the real, but have most movies basically the
same, or
...do you create your own stuff?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
>> Then defend why 2 points for CON that, in the game system as written with
>> the addendum I was addressing, does nothing but defend against stunning.
>> Bringing your house rules into it has nothing to do with my point.
>
>On the other hand, if it is desired that this fix be discussed, suggesting
>house rules as fixes to the problems would not be inappropriate. If CON
>rolls and mental attacks based on CON are as common as EGO rolls and regular
>mental attacks, is it still overpriced at that point? In that case, for that
>game, maybe EGO also has to be reduced in cost...
>
>Hmm, another fix. Ah, well. This could probably go on for a while.
I don't have any problem with someone suggesting the way to address it was
to make CON more worthwile. I just didn't think his response engaged with
my point as he presented it. All too often, I see people respond to a
criticism of a mechanic by saying, in effect, "Well, I don't think that's a
problem because in my campaign I do X, Y and Z," when the latter part of the
statement is _why_ they don't think that's a problem...but since X, Y and Z
aren't part of the published rules, that doesn't have much to do with why
it'd be a problem for most people.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
>>Well, the latter is a non-issue because a 'pure' cyberpunk setting
>>isn't of much use to me.
>
>Ah. is this a function of the types of games you play? if you were to GM
>a game of 'pure' cyberpunk whtsystem would ou use?
It's hard to say. I'm not particularly enamored of the genre on the whole,
so I'd probably be unlikely to want to. If I did, I might well use Alternity.
>
>> The advantage to the New Millenium Universe over the old
>>Champions Universe is that it feels coherent;
>
>Okay, noted. Thank you.
>
>> supers come into existance in
>>a lot of different ways, but if of a type, the way things work seems
>>consistent ('mutants' for example, only come from two sources, and
>>thereforyou can talk about what constitutes one and what common traits
>>they're expected to have intelligently)
>
>And this isn't so for C:U?
Nope. There's no explained rationale for mutants at all. Part of the
problem (which of course is a virtue to some people) was there's no real
underpinning to the C.U. The stuff is just there. That might be fine if
you want to build those underpinnings yourself...but as I noted, I tend to
run to one extreme or another, using a universe largely as-is, or creating
it mostly from the ground up. The middle case doesn't seem to have much
point to me.
>> The C.U. suffered from the fact it was, in practice,
>>patched together from a piece of a campaign here, a piece of a
>>campaign there...and all too often showed it.
>
>Okay. I never used the C:U mysef exept as another source of ideas to
>bporrow for my own homebuilt setting, And since I know what mutants are
>and etc, for the purposes of my setting I tend to edit out anything that
>doesn't agree subconsciously...
But there you. That's why I wouldn't use it; if I want to do that kind of
work, I'll do it myself all the way (though I'm not shy about snagging the
occasional bit to save myself work. For example, even though I don't use
Viper per se, Scott Bennie's book on same was such a tour-de-force on the
costumed badguy superagency that I stole the vast majority of it with a
different background, name, and rationale when I was doing one of the two I
do use. )
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:13:44 -0500
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Female Bricks (was CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks)
Mighty Girl... you can see her stats and a comic story at
http://fly.to/RFP
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:08:35 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 3:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Alchemist
>
> >At 11:37 AM 5/10/99 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
> >>>That's why as a GM I allow certain substances, rituals, and time periods
> to
> >>give character points for making items. Most of them actually give points
> >>only if they are spent personally, but not all. The way I look at it
> also,
> >>is that a Machine Gun made in our world is independent (it has no
> >>>connection to its creator, if someone takes it he loses that item and has
> >>>to make a new one (or buy one)).
I think in a realistic campaign the ability to make unusual things should cost
points
rather than paying because you have them. Perhaps using some variation of the
summoning rule to "bypass" the problem.
Embedding points for use in making specific style of magic devices in objects
and findable as treasure is a perfectly reasonable method for a heroic style
game.
And is a good way to send folk on quests. GMs are free to give players points
and independent objects are an excuse to take them... if they got them by way of
adventure losing by misadventure shouldn't hurt anyones feelings too much.
I don't think either of the above breaks the rules.. though using "Summonation"
as
"Create Unusual Thing which Fits into the Game World" is atleast stretching the
rules ;)
Lance Dyas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
>>Then defend why 2 points for CON that, in the game system as written
>with
>>the addendum I was addressing, does nothing but defend against stunning.
>>Bringing your house rules into it has nothing to do with my point.
>
>It doesn't just defend agfainst tunning though. CON is a measure of the
>robustness and stability of the PC's physiology. Using CON in this way is
>not invalid simply because it's not mentioned directly in the rulebook.
It's not invalid, but it's also outside the scope of the rules as written.
If someone is going to tell me that X is worth Y, then they need to show me
in what way, and in and of itself that's not the case with the rules as written.
>
>So you're saying that if you count in Figured Stats, then STR costs too
>little, while if you *don't* count the figured stats, then CON costs too
>much?
Generally. STR after all, does a lot of things just by itself. It's a
movement power, a no-range attack power, and a utility power. And it gives
you a bunch of figured stats that almost everyone wants on top of it. CON,
on the other hand, as written, prevents you from being stunned, and gives
you a bunch of figured stats.
>
>Huh? (Jeez, you just can't please some people) The way I use CON it's
>balanced at 2 points per levelsinmply because it does have secondary
>effects that are useful as well as being a measure of something that's
>vital to PC's but a little hard to define rigourously in RL terms...
But my point was that your way isn't in the book. That's why I say if you
just remove figures stats, it's too expensive. If you remove figured stats,
and then deal with a bunch of other things you let CON effect, that's
another discussion...and one that gets much more complex since it will also
depend on how often people run into the things your CON rules effect in the
typical campaign.
>Again we get to the question of whose opinion weighs more.
That can be said on every rules discussion that has ever been had. And so
far it doesn't look like, contrary to what you've said, you _do_ disagree
with my point...you're disagreeing with it from the perspective of someone
who's given CON a bunch of extra features. Since how it works in your house
rules is not what I was talking about, we're effectively having different
discussions. That's why I blew off your houserules form the start...it
wasn't the discussion I was trying to have.
>The same gross effect perhaps, but not that would measure and imply the
>same things about the PC.
Which given the Hero System, that shouldn't make it cost more. If two
things have the same effect in the Hero System, they should cost
approximately the same. That's the underpinning of the system.
>A mistake *for you*.
No. A mistake. You're disagreement does not make it less of a mistake.
There is always someone who likes any rule, no matter how stupid. That does
not require me to call it anything but a mistake. It simply requires me to
explain why I say so, which I've been quite willing to do.
>>He seemed to suggest it was a solution to the STR problem. I was
>>pointing out it created an entirely different problem.
>
>Then what's your solution to the STR problem?
I personally don't think there is one, short of tearing up the roots of the
system. Charging 2 points per point for Strength can work for a Heroic
game, but my observation on doing the numbers was that it created it's own
difficulties in the superheroic games. On the whole, I decided the least
harm was done simply leaving it alone.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:43:34 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
"Dr. Nuncheon" wrote:
> On 10 May 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> > * "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Mon, 10 May 1999
> > | Or, why does the alchemist get to make a healing potion for 'free' when a
> > | mage needs to pay points to be able to cast a healing spell?
> >
> > Because an alchemist makes common equipment. Said equipment has magical
> > special effects, but it is all still common equipment. Common equipment is
> > not paid for in heroic games.
>
> ...which is exactly the thing that I am challenging.
>
> Let's say I have a bow and 8 arrows. The bow does 1d6+1 killing damage at
> range. It can be taken away from me, and I have to have my hands free to
> use it.
>
> Let's say that you have a magical spell that you can cast 8 times. It
> does 1d6+1 killing damage at range, and it requires material components
> that can be taken away from you, as well as gestures that require your
> hands to be free.
>
> Why do I get that ability for free, while you pay 9 points for the
> privelege? Doesn't that strike you as a bit unfair? Why aren't spells
> counted as 'common equipment'? Where is the line drawn between 'common
> equipment' and 'stuff that must be paid for'?
>
> J
The best magic system for hero I've heard of has you paying for a VPP... that is
essentially
you paying for your magic talent/power/raw ability, each spell you have knowledge
of is then bought
like a skill, based on your magic skill... casting unfamiliar spells.. is -3 ;)
obviously you would have to elaborate
a structured set of magic effects further. Creating a new spell is a skill, spell
craft, the quality of the
roll might govern how close to the maximum (VPP) that you're magic applied in
that form would take.
Spell Craft could require whatever time reasonable.. improvised magics are just
those you took
less than optimal time to create the spell for.
Yes the above is a rules variant but if you are looking for solutions rather
than arguments ;) What do you think of it
Lance Dyas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:59:38 -0400
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
>geoff heald wrote:
> Another female brick can be found on the team The Southern Knights (it was
> a small press comic). She looked like a cheerleader but could punch out a
> building.
>
> Yep, the Southern Knights were an interesting team. Only one real
>"superhero" on the team, supported and abbetted by an Olympic fencer
>with a stun-only psionic lightsaber, the aforementioned beautiful and
>rich brick, a retired dragon, and a 17th or 18th century teen
>mage-in-training who spent the past coupla centuries sleeping behind
>their fireplace.
> And the local Viper-equivalent crime boss was another dragon.
IIRC the local Viper - equivalent was called... Viper. Their uniforms
looked like Viper uniforms from Hero. They used five person teams. The
leader was called the supreme serpent. They had lots of NCI.
I always though the southern knights was comic based on a hero campaign. I
thought it semi-official. Like the old Hero Graphic comics. Champions,
Marksman, Flare, Eternity Smith, etc. that took place in a Hero Games
universe. The old Hero Graphic comics even had Hero System character sheets
in them.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:51:07 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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hmm, trans-dmensional loonie...this strikes me as a burgeoning=20
archetype of it's own, since i've got one in each fo the games
i'm involved with (incl;uding a pc). .wht type of loonie? mr =
myxerplix-type,=20
toon-type, ect?
-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Giese <henrik.giese@lgp.se>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
=20
=20
Hmm... Sounds like my current batch of PCs: a 30,000 year old alien, =
a 3,000 year old elven mage, a trans-dimensional loonie and his =
demon-posessed sidekick, a psionic private eye, an ex-russian =
ex-assassin and my own character, a were-dragon mage...
/Henrik=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Stephen B. Mann [mailto:smann@cnsvax.albany.edu]=20
Sent: den 10 maj 1999 15:41=20
To: geoff heald=20
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org=20
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks=20
=20
=20
geoff heald wrote:=20
> Another female brick can be found on the team The Southern Knights =
(it was=20
> a small press comic). She looked like a cheerleader but could =
punch out a=20
> building.=20
Yep, the Southern Knights were an interesting team. Only one =
real=20
"superhero" on the team, supported and abbetted by an Olympic fencer =
with a stun-only psionic lightsaber, the aforementioned beautiful =
and=20
rich brick, a retired dragon, and a 17th or 18th century teen=20
mage-in-training who spent the past coupla centuries sleeping behind =
their fireplace.=20
And the local Viper-equivalent crime boss was another dragon.=20
--=20
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu=20
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln=20
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<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><TITLE>RE: CHAMP: muscular men and slick =
chicks</TITLE><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>hmm, trans-dmensional loonie...this strikes me as a =
burgeoning=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>archetype of it's own, since i've got one in each fo =
the=20
games</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i'm involved with (incl;uding a pc)</FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>. .wht=20
type of loonie? mr myxerplix-type, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>toon-type, ect?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Henrik Giese <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:henrik.giese@lgp.se">henrik.giese@lgp.se</A>><BR><B>To:=
=20
</B><A href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A> =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A>><BR><B>D=
ate:=20
</B>Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:03 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: CHAMP: =
muscular=20
men and slick chicks<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Hmm... Sounds like my current batch of PCs: a =
30,000 year=20
old alien, a 3,000 year old elven mage, a trans-dimensional loonie =
and his=20
demon-posessed sidekick, a psionic private eye, an ex-russian =
ex-assassin=20
and my own character, a were-dragon mage...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>/Henrik</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>From:=20
Stephen B. Mann [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:smann@cnsvax.albany.edu">mailto:smann@cnsvax.albany.edu</A=
>]</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>Sent: den 10 maj 1999 15:41</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>To:=20
geoff heald</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Cc: =
champ-l@sysabend.org</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick =
chicks</FONT>=20
</P><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>geoff heald wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
Another=20
female brick can be found on the team The Southern Knights (it =
was</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> a small press comic). She looked like =
a=20
cheerleader but could punch out a</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>=20
building.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2> Yep, the Southern Knights =
were an=20
interesting team. Only one real</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>"superhero" on the team, supported and abbetted =
by an=20
Olympic fencer</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>with a stun-only psionic =
lightsaber,=20
the aforementioned beautiful and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>rich =
brick, a=20
retired dragon, and a 17th or 18th century teen</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>mage-in-training who spent the past coupla centuries =
sleeping=20
behind</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>their fireplace.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
size=3D2> And the local Viper-equivalent =
crime boss=20
was another dragon.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>-- </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Stephen B.=20
=
Mann &nb=
sp; =20
smann@cnsvax.albany.edu</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>SUNY Learning=20
Network <A=20
href=3D"http://sln.suny.edu/sln"=20
target=3D_blank>http://sln.suny.edu/sln</A></FONT> =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:54:41 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
At 09:59 PM 5/10/99 -0400, dflacks wrote:
>
>I always though the southern knights was comic based on a hero campaign. I
>thought it semi-official.
Interesting. I remember seeing Southern Knights in the comics shops, but
never read it. Now I wish I had.
> Like the old Hero Graphic comics. Champions,
>Marksman, Flare, Eternity Smith, etc. that took place in a Hero Games
>universe. The old Hero Graphic comics even had Hero System character sheets
>in them.
>
>
I once heard that most of the original players from the campaign the Hero
Graphics series was based on were quite offended by what was done with
their characters. I could certainly understand that; some of the story
developments were in extremely poor taste.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:08:11 -0600
From: Trevor Gunther <gunthert@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
dflacks wrote:
> I always though the southern knights was comic based on a hero campaign. I
> thought it semi-official. Like the old Hero Graphic comics. Champions,
> Marksman, Flare, Eternity Smith, etc. that took place in a Hero Games
> universe. The old Hero Graphic comics even had Hero System character sheets
> in them.
Actually I think you're right I've got a couple of the old "Hero" comics and
there is a crossover story with the Champions and the Southern Knights. Now that
I've been reminded of them I've got to try to find them......Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:18:09 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
well then, just do yer game in superheroic, and give all the c's
'aquisition' vpps,
kinda like a gaget pool but they have to find stuff to put in it. If
somebody wants to cart something like a sword around longer than a
single adventure, they have to place it in the pool.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com>
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Alchemist Ver 1.1 and My replies
>On 10 May 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>> * "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Mon, 10 May 1999
>> | Or, why does the alchemist get to make a healing potion for 'free' when
a
>> | mage needs to pay points to be able to cast a healing spell?
>>
>> Because an alchemist makes common equipment. Said equipment has magical
>> special effects, but it is all still common equipment. Common equipment
is
>> not paid for in heroic games.
>
>...which is exactly the thing that I am challenging.
>
>Let's say I have a bow and 8 arrows. The bow does 1d6+1 killing damage at
>range. It can be taken away from me, and I have to have my hands free to
>use it.
>
>Let's say that you have a magical spell that you can cast 8 times. It
>does 1d6+1 killing damage at range, and it requires material components
>that can be taken away from you, as well as gestures that require your
>hands to be free.
>
>Why do I get that ability for free, while you pay 9 points for the
>privelege? Doesn't that strike you as a bit unfair? Why aren't spells
>counted as 'common equipment'? Where is the line drawn between 'common
>equipment' and 'stuff that must be paid for'?
>
>J
>
>Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
>Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:19:43 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: How much can I lift?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: How much can I lift?
>On Mon, 10 May 1999, John Desmarais wrote:
>
>> > > Dunno, I gotta ask the Dhole. I think he wants to eat Phobos.
>> >
>> > Seriously, I'm building a dhole, a Lovecraftian creature that's easily
>> > 800-1000 feet long (or longer). Thinkk the sandworms from Dune (that
get
>> > to be a kilometer in length) is 250 STR waaaaaaay to much, or two
little
>> > or what?
>>
>> 1000ft. That's about 305 meters, or about 22 levels of growth. 22
levels of
>> growth will impart an extra 110 STR. On top of 10-20 "Base" STR that
really
>> sounds like enough to me - it's up above that "I can juggle battleships"
range
>> where my ability to visualize how strong something is begins to fade...
>>
>> But then again, in my Champions games the strongest PC to ever exist had
a STR
>> of 90, so 120-130 STR is "really, really, really strong" to me.
>
>It's needs to be stronger than Godzilla (115 STR) and Grond (90 STR). I'm
>thinking 250 is a bit too much... so maybe 150 STR. Ypu see, dholes
>really do *eat* planets (abet from the inside out) and in the CoC game are
>given a damage bonus of "Can crush a battleship". Maybe 30d6 from the 150
>STR and some extra dice of HA to represent sheer mass?
>
>Yes, this is an excersize in the immense.
>
i'd say just give it size based str and mach it with hka. you heard me!
If it's blitzing planets and stuff it'll need it either way
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> "10,000 of them...four of us. Those unlucky bastards!"
> Andy "the Buffalo" Bartalone
>
>
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