Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 335
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 4:17 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #335
champ-l-digest Tuesday, May 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 335
In this issue:
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
CHAR: Amberites, Part I
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: File Sought
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Amberite Question
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Amberite Question
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Amberite Question
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Amberite Question
Re: CHAR: Amberites, Part I
Re: Amberite Question
Re: Amberite Question
Re: CHAR: Amberites, Part I
Re: Amberite Question
Re: Amberite Question
Re: Amberite Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:02:49 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
At 12:45 PM 5/11/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How's this?
>
>Farie Fire: Images: vs Sight, +4 to PER, Useable against others (+1),
>Ranged (+1/2), Only to counteract darkness penalties (-1),
>Gestures (-1/2), One Use Lasting One Turn (-1 1/4)
When I use Images to make things more perceptible, I don't use UAO; and
I don't think Ranged would be needed either (I'm assuming anyway that you
included that mainly to go with UAO).
Otherwise, for this particular effect, it looks OK.
That said, though, shouldn't there be something to reduce DCV, according
to the description you originally sent out?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:11:39 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
At 12:14 PM 5/11/1999 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>>At 11:28 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>>>>It's got it's own sourcebook. I liked it, but someone is bound to
>>>>mention that Viperia is really gross. She's a Supergirl clone. I
>actually had to toughen her up for an appearence in my game...
>>>
>
>>>Yeah, I had the same problem with Viperia. Most of the characters in my
>campaign could easily beat her one on one.
>>
>>dang you guys have a lot of points in your campaigns... you probably
>>whupped on Genocide's 250 point 'agents' too
>
>
>Yeah, neither, Genocide nor Viper have been a problem for quite awhile. The
>heroes all fall within 600 and 1000 points. It's hard to believe that just
>9 short years ago these people were just 250 point beginners.
>
>It becomes more and more challenging to find threats great enough to require
>more than one or two members of the group to show up.
Maybe you guys can have Doctor Destroyer make clones of Hach-U-Rui? ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Farie Fire: Images: vs Sight, +4 to PER, Useable against others (+1),
> >Ranged (+1/2), Only to counteract darkness penalties (-1),
> >Gestures (-1/2), One Use Lasting One Turn (-1 1/4)
>
> When I use Images to make things more perceptible, I don't use UAO; and
> I don't think Ranged would be needed either (I'm assuming anyway that you
> included that mainly to go with UAO).
Except UAO is needed to cast it on another target. And yes, I included
Ragned because of UAO.
> Otherwise, for this particular effect, it looks OK.
> That said, though, shouldn't there be something to reduce DCV, according
> to the description you originally sent out?
I guess so... it looks like time to Link <gasp> one power to another!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"...Nothing is a coincidence if it happens to bolster the conclusions we
already seek. This is how we professionals discover the messages hidden in
seemingly disparate objects or events."
James Finn Garner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:43:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> > >Farie Fire: Images: vs Sight, +4 to PER, Useable against others (+1),
> > >Ranged (+1/2), Only to counteract darkness penalties (-1),
> > >Gestures (-1/2), One Use Lasting One Turn (-1 1/4)
> >
> > When I use Images to make things more perceptible, I don't use UAO; and
> > I don't think Ranged would be needed either (I'm assuming anyway that you
> > included that mainly to go with UAO).
>
> Except UAO is needed to cast it on another target. And yes, I included
> Ragned because of UAO.
>
> > Otherwise, for this particular effect, it looks OK.
> > That said, though, shouldn't there be something to reduce DCV, according
> > to the description you originally sent out?
>
> I guess so... it looks like time to Link <gasp> one power to another!
Actually, if Faerie Fire only removes darkness/invisibility penalties (as
someone suggested it did) then the current construct is sufficient, IMHO.
If it gives bonus at any time, then you'll need the other power.
J
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
- --- "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> > I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand and
> > grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
> > year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
> > power?
>
> Superman grew in power so much from his original appearance that they took
> advantage of resetting the universe to tone him down.
Actually, for what it's worth, that was the second (or maybe third) time that
Superman was toned down.
- -=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:03:29 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
>> I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand and
>> grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
>> year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
>> power?
>
>Superman grew in power so much from his original appearance that they took
>advantage of resetting the universe to tone him down.
>Spider-man might not have gotten any more powerful, but he has picked up a
>lot of new tricks. When he first started out, he didn't have
>Spider-Tracers, for example, and I think his web-shooters/web fluid has
>been redesigned.
>
>Magneto increased in power to ridiculous levels over many years.
You know as well as I do that these are all exceptions and hardly the rule,
comic book characters, characters in books, movies etc by the great
majority do NOT grow in power over the years (the notable exception being
characters that are children or the story is specifically about their
training), especially compared to how it works in role playing games. The
fact is, RPG's do not accurately represent the source material in this.
>Iron Man has redesigned his suit for greater/different power many times.
Dozens, perhaps hundreds of times, but you see the same villains and the
same level of difficulty for him, dont you? He changes design but really
doesn't get any more powerful.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:03:26 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
At 01:43 PM 5/11/99 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> > >Farie Fire: Images: vs Sight, +4 to PER, Useable against others (+1),
>> > >Ranged (+1/2), Only to counteract darkness penalties (-1),
>> > >Gestures (-1/2), One Use Lasting One Turn (-1 1/4)
>> >
>> > When I use Images to make things more perceptible, I don't use UAO;
and
>> > I don't think Ranged would be needed either (I'm assuming anyway that you
>> > included that mainly to go with UAO).
>>
>> Except UAO is needed to cast it on another target. And yes, I included
>> Ragned because of UAO.
>>
>> > Otherwise, for this particular effect, it looks OK.
>> > That said, though, shouldn't there be something to reduce DCV,
according
>> > to the description you originally sent out?
>>
>> I guess so... it looks like time to Link <gasp> one power to another!
>
>Actually, if Faerie Fire only removes darkness/invisibility penalties (as
>someone suggested it did) then the current construct is sufficient, IMHO.
>If it gives bonus at any time, then you'll need the other power.
>
If you're aiming for an exact translation of the AD&D spell, you might want
to keep in mind that the "To Hit' number in AD&D is not exactly the same as
Hero's Attack Roll; Armor Class encompasses PD & ED as well as DCV. So,
while a DEX/DCV Drain could simulate a bonus to hit, so could a PD & ED
Drain. This doesn't seem that much more implausible an effect of a wreath
of flames than the DCV penalty, and it's easier to construct.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:10:11 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
>If you're aiming for an exact translation of the AD&D spell, you might want
>to keep in mind that the "To Hit' number in AD&D is not exactly the same as
>Hero's Attack Roll; Armor Class encompasses PD & ED as well as DCV. So,
>while a DEX/DCV Drain could simulate a bonus to hit, so could a PD & ED
>Drain. This doesn't seem that much more implausible an effect of a wreath
>of flames than the DCV penalty, and it's easier to construct.
Also don't forget the difference in targeting mechanism; I don't remember
if Faerie Fire rates a saving throw or not, but whether it hits certainly
isn't based on DCV.
And make sure you get the right number of Segments of Extra Time. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:14:39 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: CHAR: Amberites, Part I
When I finished my run of Tolkien characters a while ago, I said that
I'd soon move on to characters from Roger Zelazny's "Chronicles
of Amber". I'm now ready to do that. Unlike Tolkien's, Zelazny's
characters deserve some initial discussion and definition, so
here goes.
First of all, I should confess my biases. In addition to Hero System,
my other favorite game is The Amber Diceless Role-Playing Game
by Erick Wujcik and Phage Press. I recommend it for Amber play.
Nonetheless, being a gamer, I feel compelled to fiddle with games
and their genres.
Second, despite the above, my versions of the Amber characters will
be based on the novels themselves, not on the ADRPG.
Third, the writeups will be in light of -both- Chronicles of Amber, despite
the apparent universal preference for the first over the second. This is
more for completeness than to express any personal preference.
Fourth, I want to define the limits of what an Amberite can do. They are
not gods or superheroes. Tricky chains of logic to the contrary, Gerard
cannot outwrestle The Hulk. The Amberites are not so much superhuman
as they are the extreme outer edge of human capability, physically. As
one friend puts it, you never see Corwin do anything that you'd blink at
twice if you saw Arnold Schwarzennegar do it in a movie.
So now, on to our show...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:36:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
> >If you're aiming for an exact translation of the AD&D spell, you might want
> >to keep in mind that the "To Hit' number in AD&D is not exactly the same as
> >Hero's Attack Roll; Armor Class encompasses PD & ED as well as DCV. So,
> >while a DEX/DCV Drain could simulate a bonus to hit, so could a PD & ED
> >Drain. This doesn't seem that much more implausible an effect of a wreath
> >of flames than the DCV penalty, and it's easier to construct.
>
> Also don't forget the difference in targeting mechanism; I don't remember
> if Faerie Fire rates a saving throw or not, but whether it hits certainly
> isn't based on DCV.
>
> And make sure you get the right number of Segments of Extra Time. :)
Okay, that's enough of that. I'm going to go with the basic intent of the
spell, which is to make a target easier to hit in dimly lit situations.
So, I'm going with Images (only to reduce darkness mods) and a Dex
Suppress (only to reduce DCV). How's that?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:39:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >> I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand and
> >> grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
> >> year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
> >> power?
> >Superman grew in power so much from his original appearance that they took
> >advantage of resetting the universe to tone him down.
> >Spider-man might not have gotten any more powerful, but he has picked up a
> >lot of new tricks. When he first started out, he didn't have
> >Spider-Tracers, for example, and I think his web-shooters/web fluid has
> >been redesigned.
> >Magneto increased in power to ridiculous levels over many years.
>
> You know as well as I do that these are all exceptions and hardly the rule,
On the other hand, the exceptions are some of the most popular and
well-known characters in the comics. Let's go over some more:
Batman - I think his skills and stats have gone up. He's certainly a
better fighter now than he used to be. Plus, he's added lots of items to
his gadget collection and about 90 jillion vehicles and the like. Plus,
he's dropped a lot of pointage on Contacts and Favors since he first
appeared.
Flash - Barry Allen just kept getting faster and faster and faster...
Green Lantern - Another excellent example of someone who grew - a lot - in
raw power.
Heck, I'll go out on a limb: I would be surprised if you could find a
single character who has their own book, yet has not developed any new
powers, new uses for their powers, changes in their powers, or something
else that, in a game, they would have spent XP on.
> comic book characters, characters in books, movies etc by the great
> majority do NOT grow in power over the years (the notable exception being
> characters that are children or the story is specifically about their
> training), especially compared to how it works in role playing games. The
> fact is, RPG's do not accurately represent the source material in this.
>
> >Iron Man has redesigned his suit for greater/different power many times.
>
> Dozens, perhaps hundreds of times, but you see the same villains and the
> same level of difficulty for him, dont you? He changes design but really
> doesn't get any more powerful.
That being my point: XP ought to be used to /broaden/ the characters
abilities rather than for more raw power. Instead of spending those 5 xp
to get a more powerful Repulsor Ray, Iron Man decides to stash them away
to help pay for a new set of 'Space Armor'. (Of course, IM's repulsor
rays are a lot more powerful now than they were when he first appeared...)
BUT...if your game fails to work that way, it is the GM's fault and the
player's fault, not the system's fault. The GM should be saying, "You
don't need to put any more points into Energy Blast. Why don't you take a
new power instead?"
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:39:14 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
At 03:36 PM 5/11/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
>> >If you're aiming for an exact translation of the AD&D spell, you might
want
>> >to keep in mind that the "To Hit' number in AD&D is not exactly the
same as
>> >Hero's Attack Roll; Armor Class encompasses PD & ED as well as DCV. So,
>> >while a DEX/DCV Drain could simulate a bonus to hit, so could a PD & ED
>> >Drain. This doesn't seem that much more implausible an effect of a wreath
>> >of flames than the DCV penalty, and it's easier to construct.
>>
>> Also don't forget the difference in targeting mechanism; I don't remember
>> if Faerie Fire rates a saving throw or not, but whether it hits certainly
>> isn't based on DCV.
>>
>> And make sure you get the right number of Segments of Extra Time. :)
>
>Okay, that's enough of that. I'm going to go with the basic intent of the
>spell, which is to make a target easier to hit in dimly lit situations.
>So, I'm going with Images (only to reduce darkness mods) and a Dex
>Suppress (only to reduce DCV). How's that?
>
Sounds okay to me. I personally would leave it at Images to reduce darkness
mods.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:42:40 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: File Sought
In a message dated 5/11/99 12:23:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, golem@fred.net
writes:
> Some several months ago, during a major push to assemble articles on the
> now-assured 5th Edition, someone had posted a serious redo of Regeneration,
> with advantages and additions for being affected by conditions, regen of
> limbs, etc., etc., and based the Regen on the REC of the affected
> character. I have had some serious system troubles of late, and at present
> cannot access my jazz disk copy of my old hard drive, which happens to
> contain said mail files. So, I was hoping some kind, generous, wonderful
> soul out there might know what I'm talking about, and be willing to either
> send it to me privately, or repost it. Please?
Re-posting the file would be nice.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:46:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> Heck, I'll go out on a limb: I would be surprised if you could find a
> single character who has their own book, yet has not developed any new
> powers, new uses for their powers, changes in their powers, or something
> else that, in a game, they would have spent XP on.
Miyomoto Usagi (Usagi Yojimbo) isn't all that much different than when he
first appeared. About the only thing he's spent his XP on is some
contacts.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:31:28 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Amberite Question
Puh. After that grandiose introduction, I find myself at a loss for two
of the Amberite's powers. The easier of the two is the tendancy of
shadows (dimensions) to become more 'real' with exposure to an
Amberite over time, such that they take on a reality of their own.
I'm torn between not modelling this at all, any more than I'd model
another character's ability to leave footprints or write his name on
a blackboard, and calling it an Aid (but to what?)
The more difficult question (for me) is how to model the Amberite's
ability to seek things out in shadow. For instance, without knowing
the location in infinite shadow of his sword, Greyswandir, Corwin is
able to simply move to its location. Is this a form of summoning?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:01 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
At 10:49 AM 5/11/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 12:14 PM 5/11/99 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>>>At 11:28 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>>>>>It's got it's own sourcebook. I liked it, but someone is bound to
>>>>>mention that Viperia is really gross. She's a Supergirl clone. I
>>actually had to toughen her up for an appearence in my game...
>>>>
>>
>>>>Yeah, I had the same problem with Viperia. Most of the characters in my
>>campaign could easily beat her one on one.
>>>
>>>dang you guys have a lot of points in your campaigns... you probably
>>>whupped on Genocide's 250 point 'agents' too
>>
>>
>>Yeah, neither, Genocide nor Viper have been a problem for quite awhile. The
>>heroes all fall within 600 and 1000 points. It's hard to believe that just
>>9 short years ago these people were just 250 point beginners.
>>
>>It becomes more and more challenging to find threats great enough to require
>>more than one or two members of the group to show up.
>
>I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand and
>grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
>year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
>power? Its only in recent years that heroes suddenly had a surge in power
>level -- and the villains did too, effectively negating their increase
>(sort of like a video game, yes you are more powerful but so are the bad
>guys, and you dont notice a change really). I dont like experience.
>
I agree with your basic premise (that comic book heroes get better slowly
if at all) but I disagree with the comment that large growth of power is a
recent phenomenon.
Superman started out with much less power than he has today.
In color cartoons from the 1940s, Superman is still just a really strong
guy in a bulletproof SUIT who can leap so far it seems as if he's flying.
By the late 1960s, he was riddled with god-like power (inhale the ocean to
blow out the forest fire).
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:54:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
> From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
>
> The more difficult question (for me) is how to model the Amberite's
> ability to seek things out in shadow. For instance, without knowing
> the location in infinite shadow of his sword, Greyswandir, Corwin is
> able to simply move to its location. Is this a form of summoning?
>
>
Some kind of extra-dimensional detect maybe.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:56:26 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
>>Yeah, neither, Genocide nor Viper have been a problem for quite awhile.
The heroes all fall within 600 and 1000 points. It's hard to believe that
just 9 short years ago these people were just 250 point beginners.
>>
>>It becomes more and more challenging to find threats great enough to
require more than one or two members of the group to show up.
>
> Maybe you guys can have Doctor Destroyer make clones of Hach-U-Rui? ;-]
I'm afraid Dr. Destroyer is no longer with us. When he attempted to take
over the teams Spacestation, the resulting battle killed the arch-villain
and destroyed the station.
Of course once Dr. D's computers realized that he was no longer living, they
initiated his doom's day device. If he can't have the world no one can!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:57:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> Puh. After that grandiose introduction, I find myself at a loss for two
> of the Amberite's powers. The easier of the two is the tendancy of
> shadows (dimensions) to become more 'real' with exposure to an
> Amberite over time, such that they take on a reality of their own.
>
> I'm torn between not modelling this at all, any more than I'd model
> another character's ability to leave footprints or write his name on
> a blackboard, and calling it an Aid (but to what?)
I'd call this a Cumulative Transformation Attack that works very slowly.
> The more difficult question (for me) is how to model the Amberite's
> ability to seek things out in shadow. For instance, without knowing
> the location in infinite shadow of his sword, Greyswandir, Corwin is
> able to simply move to its location. Is this a form of summoning?
Well, to move to another shadow would be EDM. The problem is (of course)
that Corwin is moving to a local he knows nothing about. This could
almost be a limitation (along the lines of No Concious Control) or an
advantage (can go anywhere in shadow as long as something he wons is
there). Now, there is the point that an Amberite can summon almsot
anything to him, this is a gadget pool with extra time (since it takes
time to form the object you want and retrieve it).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:57:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Miyomoto Usagi (Usagi Yojimbo) isn't all that much different than when he
> first appeared. About the only thing he's spent his XP on is some
> contacts.
Isn't Usagi Yojimbo a bunny rabbit?
...and, aside from a furry tail and floppy ears, the Usagi
univerise is Heroic based with supernatural thrown in once in a while.
Pretty much Furry Samauri and Ninja.
I think it all boild down to:
Captain Amazing is the most Amazing man in the universe.
Captain Amazing can do Amazing things that no one else can do
(and see Amazing things that no one else can see).
Captain Amazing must push the limits and boundries of his Amazing
powers, so he can continue to do Amazing things that no one else can do
(and see Amazing things that no one else can see).
Thus, Captain Amazing must be _more_ Amazing each and every time
(which means an increase of abilities and power) so he can pust his
Amazing-ness. If he doesn't, he is no longer "Amazing" because he
stagnates in his own (still greater than normal, but consistant -read
predictable) Amazing-ness.
Push the letter, pump the hype, wait for the next Amazing episode.
Four Color Superheroics.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> > Miyomoto Usagi (Usagi Yojimbo) isn't all that much different than when he
> > first appeared. About the only thing he's spent his XP on is some
> > contacts.
>
> Isn't Usagi Yojimbo a bunny rabbit?
Basically yes.
> ...and, aside from a furry tail and floppy ears, the Usagi
> univerise is Heroic based with supernatural thrown in once in a while.
> Pretty much Furry Samauri and Ninja.
Uhm... I didn' think that mattered based on the question. And Usagi may
be Heroic level, be he's a lot of points Heroic level (not to mention a
good read all things considered).
> I think it all boild down to:
>
> Captain Amazing is the most Amazing man in the universe.
> Captain Amazing can do Amazing things that no one else can do
> (and see Amazing things that no one else can see).
> Captain Amazing must push the limits and boundries of his Amazing
> powers, so he can continue to do Amazing things that no one else can do
> (and see Amazing things that no one else can see).
> Thus, Captain Amazing must be _more_ Amazing each and every time
> (which means an increase of abilities and power) so he can pust his
> Amazing-ness. If he doesn't, he is no longer "Amazing" because he
> stagnates in his own (still greater than normal, but consistant -read
> predictable) Amazing-ness.
> Push the letter, pump the hype, wait for the next Amazing episode.
>
> Four Color Superheroics.
Which is why Supes gets so out of hand. DC loved to hand the tag of
'fastest', 'strongest', 'most powerful' on their titles, setting absolutes
that were sure to get out of hand. Marvel settled from more restrained
adjectives, which allowed for a little flexability (ie the 'Amazing'
Spiderman, the 'Fantastic; 4, the 'Uncanny' X-men).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:45:51 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
At 03:57 PM 5/11/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Well, to move to another shadow would be EDM. The problem is (of course)
>that Corwin is moving to a local he knows nothing about. This could
>almost be a limitation (along the lines of No Concious Control) or an
>advantage (can go anywhere in shadow as long as something he wons is
>there). Now, there is the point that an Amberite can summon almsot
>anything to him, this is a gadget pool with extra time (since it takes
>time to form the object you want and retrieve it).
I don't think an Amberite can summon anything. He has to move
to it, not the other way around.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:06:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Amberites, Part I
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> When I finished my run of Tolkien characters a while ago, I said that
> I'd soon move on to characters from Roger Zelazny's "Chronicles
> of Amber". I'm now ready to do that. Unlike Tolkien's, Zelazny's
> characters deserve some initial discussion and definition, so
> here goes.
>
> Second, despite the above, my versions of the Amber characters will
> be based on the novels themselves, not on the ADRPG.
Good.
> Fourth, I want to define the limits of what an Amberite can do. They are
> not gods or superheroes. Tricky chains of logic to the contrary, Gerard
> cannot outwrestle The Hulk. The Amberites are not so much superhuman
> as they are the extreme outer edge of human capability, physically. As
> one friend puts it, you never see Corwin do anything that you'd blink at
> twice if you saw Arnold Schwarzennegar do it in a movie.
I think your friend didn't read very closely, IMHO. Some of the things
that I remember:
Corwin picks up a huge overstuffed chair with one hand and throws it
across the room hard enough to break someone's back.
Corwin and Random lift a Mercedes. That's probably at least 2 tons of car
- - there's a '99 M-B 4-door sedan that weighs almost that much, and that's
with modern technology.
(These two things alone argue for a strength for Corwin of somewhere in
the 25-30 range, if I remember my lifting capacity right. And Gerard is
even stronger. I suppose you might consider that 'peak human' but to me
it's just a bit beyond.)
Corwin and Random fence for 24 hours straight, and could have kept going.
(Time to check the Long Term Endurance rules...)
I'm only halfway through Guns of Avalon on my current re-read, but I think
there are probably more instances like this. I personally think the DRPG
went a little overboard in how powerful the characters were, but there's
no reason to go too far the other way...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:05:52 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
At 12:31 PM 5/11/99 -0400, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>Puh. After that grandiose introduction, I find myself at a loss for two
>of the Amberite's powers. The easier of the two is the tendancy of
>shadows (dimensions) to become more 'real' with exposure to an
>Amberite over time, such that they take on a reality of their own.
>
>I'm torn between not modelling this at all, any more than I'd model
>another character's ability to leave footprints or write his name on
>a blackboard, and calling it an Aid (but to what?)
>
That's a tough one. You could build every shadow as a really, really big
base, then make it an Aid to Base. Or, since Shadows are shifting
realities, and shifting reality is what Transform does, you could build
each Shadow as an Independent Continuous Transform, and give Amberites an
Aid to that. That would be pretty cool, though you're probably better off
leaving the whole thing as SFX.
>The more difficult question (for me) is how to model the Amberite's
>ability to seek things out in shadow. For instance, without knowing
>the location in infinite shadow of his sword, Greyswandir, Corwin is
>able to simply move to its location. Is this a form of summoning?
>
Maybe. Or Detect linked to Extradimensional Movement? Or Luck?
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:11:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> At 03:57 PM 5/11/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> >Well, to move to another shadow would be EDM. The problem is (of course)
> >that Corwin is moving to a local he knows nothing about. This could
> >almost be a limitation (along the lines of No Concious Control) or an
> >advantage (can go anywhere in shadow as long as something he wons is
> >there). Now, there is the point that an Amberite can summon almsot
> >anything to him, this is a gadget pool with extra time (since it takes
> >time to form the object you want and retrieve it).
>
> I don't think an Amberite can summon anything. He has to move
> to it, not the other way around.
It's been a while since I read Amber, but doesn't Corwyn summon some money
*to* him at one point? The effect being described that he reaches into
shadow to find what he wants?
I know this becuase at one point I was going to run a Amber-like PC (a
*long* time ago) and he has a mini-gadget pool to siumlate that power.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:51:18 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Amberites, Part I
At 03:06 PM 5/11/99 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>> Fourth, I want to define the limits of what an Amberite can do. They are
>> not gods or superheroes. Tricky chains of logic to the contrary, Gerard
>> cannot outwrestle The Hulk. The Amberites are not so much superhuman
>> as they are the extreme outer edge of human capability, physically. As
>> one friend puts it, you never see Corwin do anything that you'd blink at
>> twice if you saw Arnold Schwarzennegar do it in a movie.
>
>I think your friend didn't read very closely, IMHO. Some of the things
>that I remember:
>
>Corwin picks up a huge overstuffed chair with one hand and throws it
>across the room hard enough to break someone's back.
>
>Corwin and Random lift a Mercedes. That's probably at least 2 tons of car
>- there's a '99 M-B 4-door sedan that weighs almost that much, and that's
>with modern technology.
>
I've seen Arnold do both of these things.
>(These two things alone argue for a strength for Corwin of somewhere in
>the 25-30 range, if I remember my lifting capacity right. And Gerard is
>even stronger. I suppose you might consider that 'peak human' but to me
>it's just a bit beyond.)
>
>Corwin and Random fence for 24 hours straight, and could have kept going.
>(Time to check the Long Term Endurance rules...)
>
>I'm only halfway through Guns of Avalon on my current re-read, but I think
>there are probably more instances like this. I personally think the DRPG
>went a little overboard in how powerful the characters were, but there's
>no reason to go too far the other way...
I don't think I am. That's my point. Amberites have 'movie hero' strength,
but not 'movie superhero' strength. I'd list Benedict at 25 STR and Gerard
at...you'll see.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:12:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> Puh. After that grandiose introduction, I find myself at a loss for two
> of the Amberite's powers. The easier of the two is the tendancy of
> shadows (dimensions) to become more 'real' with exposure to an
> Amberite over time, such that they take on a reality of their own.
>
> I'm torn between not modelling this at all, any more than I'd model
> another character's ability to leave footprints or write his name on
> a blackboard, and calling it an Aid (but to what?)
I'd say that this is the way to do it. After all, what does the 'becoming
more real' /mean/? Not a lot. It means that the realm might cast some of
its own Shadows, and that's about it AFAIK.
> The more difficult question (for me) is how to model the Amberite's
> ability to seek things out in shadow. For instance, without knowing
> the location in infinite shadow of his sword, Greyswandir, Corwin is
> able to simply move to its location. Is this a form of summoning?
Actually, he knew that the sword was back in Amber, but he made it appear,
hidden in the tree. You don't see this much later on, although Logrus
initiates can reach through Shadow to 'grab' things (as Merlin
demonstrates). It could be that most Amberites can only do that to things
they have some connection with - after all, Corwin has to physically go
through Shadow to get his guns, etc. Possibly the only reason he was able
to 'conjure' Greyswandir was that he was connected to it in a metaphysical
sense.
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:14:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
> I don't think an Amberite can summon anything. He has to move
> to it, not the other way around.
Corwin summons a pair of birds to carry messages for him at the end of
NPiA. (Oberon also creates the bird out of Corwin's blood, which could be
counted as a form of Summon, but I don't think that was Shadow-walking
related.)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:15:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Amberite Question
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> It's been a while since I read Amber, but doesn't Corwyn summon some money
> *to* him at one point? The effect being described that he reaches into
> shadow to find what he wants?
Random changes the car, clothing, and Corwin's money as they drive through
Shadow in NPiA. That might be what you're thinking of...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
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