Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 338
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 7:36 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #338
champ-l-digest Wednesday, May 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 338
In this issue:
"Living Champions" and STR/CON cost
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: My problems... as per your request
OT: Was Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Was Re: VIPER: What is it?
Re: Lady Champions...
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
RE: Farie Fire ver 2.0
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
RE: More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
RE: More Celebrity Champions
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
Re: More Celebrity Champions
Ciao!
Re: "Living Champions" and STR/CON cost
Re: Diceless (was CHAR: Benedict)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:38:25 -0700
From: david_mckee@filemaker.com (David McKee)
Subject: "Living Champions" and STR/CON cost
I've read a bit about the "Champions is dead" thread and I'd thought I
just echo
a few things others have touched upon.
First, I'd have to disagree that the Champions somehow fails in it's
implementation
of STR and CON.
I've used the HGS for everything from Spies (remember Espionage! ?) to
Fantasy,
to Sci-Fi, although mostly SuperHeroes. Many, many different levels.
I've tried a lot of other game systems, too. And HGS beats them all.
When I was first learning the HGS, it seemed very complicated, but now
that
I look back, it's surprisingly simple for what it does.
I think the system as presented/written is very carefully balanced, but
*flexible*.
Yes, using powergaming techniques one can abuse the system easily.
However,
I don't think there is any system that doesn't have "holes" to abuse. I
don't
think I'd enjoy playing a system that was so tightly locked down there
were
no holes even if it was possible.
The key here is that even assuming STR and CON are overly important in the
game, let's remember this is a ROLE-PLAYING game. Not a CRPG, or card
game.
Just because you can crunch the numbers to get an advantage in your
characters
doesn't mean you do it, or that it is a flaw in the system. If all my
players
were buying High STR and CON I'd worry about myself as a GM.
Sometimes good role-playing is doing exactly the OPPOSITE of what is good
or
optimal for the character point-wise or combat wise.
Not to mention the fact I don't have a problem with STR in the slightest.
Having a high STR is much more easy to acquire than a "cosmic sense".
Therefore,
it is easier to obtain and be more powerful in. (Hence the cost).
Realistically,
STR and CON are of course primary factors in combat, since most people
assume
damage is physical, as is death. (And it is the majority of the time).
But I don't do non-stop battles in my RPG games, do you? I have a lot
of non-combat play in my sessions with my players. Sure, combat usually
is the crux of plot-points, but not always.
Does that mean all my players have brick characters? Of course not.
I think the difference in perspective is, don't shape your character by
the
mechanics of the system, but shape the mechanics of the system to your
character.
HGS does this elegantly, and I've NEVER had a character conception that I
couldn't "do" in the HGS. 90% of the time I've never even had to bend my
strict rules, or how I believe the HGS was written/intended. The other
10%
of the time I've only bent things slightly, or added a small skill/talent
etc...
For what it's worth...
- -Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:55:25 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >> I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand and
> >> grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
> >> year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
> >> power?
> >
> >Superman grew in power so much from his original appearance that they took
> >advantage of resetting the universe to tone him down.
>
> >Spider-man might not have gotten any more powerful, but he has picked up a
> >lot of new tricks. When he first started out, he didn't have
> >Spider-Tracers, for example, and I think his web-shooters/web fluid has
> >been redesigned.
> >
> >Magneto increased in power to ridiculous levels over many years.
>
Yeah, and what about Batman? The guy went from great physical specimen, world's
greatest detective, to anything you can do I can do better. There isn't anyone
Batman cannot beat given the time to study. He annoys me alot more now.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:03:20 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
But to be truthful Spiderman is the only hero whose schtik is that he can't
truely be happy. Probably his biggest "Superpower" is the ability to have his
metaphysical ASS kicked every twelve issues.
Your parents are dead
your uncle is dead
your girlfreind is dead
no one likes you
your old costume wants you dead
YOUGETMARRIED
your aunt is dead
your child is dead
YOURPARENTS ARE ALIVE
no there not they're robots...and their dead again
you are a clone
no your not....the clone is dead
you wife wants you to stop being Spiderman
Norman Osborne returns
Aunt May is alive
you are going back to highschool (just kidding)
MJ is a walking target.....
yeeesh!
happyelf wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr. Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com>
> To: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 4:22 AM
> Subject: Re: VIPER: What is it?
>
> >On Tue, 11 May 1999, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >> I agree, and thats my basic problem with experience. Its fun to expand
> and
> >> grow your character, but in all honesty, read the comics, in the 70 or so
> >> year history of comic books, how much have the characters really grown in
> >> power?
> >
> >Superman grew in power so much from his original appearance that they took
> >advantage of resetting the universe to tone him down.
> >
> >Spider-man might not have gotten any more powerful, but he has picked up a
> >lot of new tricks. When he first started out, he didn't have
> >Spider-Tracers, for example, and I think his web-shooters/web fluid has
> >been redesigned.
> >
> >Magneto increased in power to ridiculous levels over many years.
> >
> >Iron Man has redesigned his suit for greater/different power many times.
> >
> >Personally, I think that experience is better used to broaden a character
> >rather than increasing existing powers. A great example is the
> >spider-tracers - it's taking something based on the powers/SFX of the
> >character ('spider sense') and making a new power out of it.
> >
>
> . . .not to mention spidey's mass of contacts, favours,
> perks and so on, and a gaget vpp he rarely uses,
> but has sometimes, especially reguarding costume variants.
> Another option for vpp's is the 'power stunt', where a super starts
> thinking really laterally about their pwers and using them in
> all sorts of clever ways.
>
> >J
> >
> >Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
> >Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
> >
> >
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 03:14:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: aregalad@miami.edu
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request
> In a message dated 5/10/99 8:36:06 AM, aregalad@miami.edu writes:
>
> >Anyway, I was wondering if you guys address the INT "problem" at all in
> >5th Edition?
>
> The costs of stats in 5th Edition have not changed from 4th Edition, nor have
> the formulas for figured characteristics.
Hm...I guess the answer is no. :[ I already knew the above to be the case,
but I was wondering if you had any house rules that might address this
problem. The stat changes I mentioned was just a sharing of the house
rules _I_ use, but I was wondering if there was going to be something else
that was "more official" so to speak.
See ya,
Dragonfly
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 02:53:47 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com>
Subject: OT: Was Re: VIPER: What is it?
Okay, this post reminded me - I picked up an issue of spiderman recently and
noticed that Aunt May had returned. How the hell did THAT happen? They gave her a
decent send-off the first time (just before dying she reveals that she has known
for quite awhile that Peter was Spiderman). What cheesy "bring her back from the
dead" method did they use THIS time??
Todd
Chad Riley wrote:
> But to be truthful Spiderman is the only hero whose schtik is that he can't
> truely be happy. Probably his biggest "Superpower" is the ability to have his
> metaphysical ASS kicked every twelve issues.
> Your parents are dead
> your uncle is dead
> your girlfreind is dead
> no one likes you
> your old costume wants you dead
> YOUGETMARRIED
> your aunt is dead
> your child is dead
> YOURPARENTS ARE ALIVE
> no there not they're robots...and their dead again
> you are a clone
> no your not....the clone is dead
> you wife wants you to stop being Spiderman
> Norman Osborne returns
> Aunt May is alive
> you are going back to highschool (just kidding)
> MJ is a walking target.....
>
> yeeesh!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:07:05 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Was Re: VIPER: What is it?
who cares? it's just the same crappy old 'lets go back to the good old days'
formula that's obliterated some of the best spiderman stories there are.
no more ned leeds hobgoblin, no more dead green goblin, no more dead doc
ock,
no more dead aunt may, no more scarlet spider- hey! that was a GOOD thing!
they didn't have to disintergrate him *yeesh* they may as well have had
petey
wake up and say 'wow, it was all a dream!'
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com>
To: champs <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 5:50 PM
Subject: OT: Was Re: VIPER: What is it?
>Okay, this post reminded me - I picked up an issue of spiderman recently
and
>noticed that Aunt May had returned. How the hell did THAT happen? They
gave her a
>decent send-off the first time (just before dying she reveals that she has
known
>for quite awhile that Peter was Spiderman). What cheesy "bring her back
from the
>dead" method did they use THIS time??
>
>Todd
>
>Chad Riley wrote:
>
>> But to be truthful Spiderman is the only hero whose schtik is that he
can't
>> truely be happy. Probably his biggest "Superpower" is the ability to have
his
>> metaphysical ASS kicked every twelve issues.
>> Your parents are dead
>> your uncle is dead
>> your girlfreind is dead
>> no one likes you
>> your old costume wants you dead
>> YOUGETMARRIED
>> your aunt is dead
>> your child is dead
>> YOURPARENTS ARE ALIVE
>> no there not they're robots...and their dead again
>> you are a clone
>> no your not....the clone is dead
>> you wife wants you to stop being Spiderman
>> Norman Osborne returns
>> Aunt May is alive
>> you are going back to highschool (just kidding)
>> MJ is a walking target.....
>>
>> yeeesh!
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 05:55:24 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Lady Champions...
At 08:32 PM 5/11/1999 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>It sounds like some ladies do indeed have a series of heroic roles in modern
>cinema..
>Sandra Bullock in Speed 2 and in the Net, Practical Magic, The Demolition Man
>who knows maybe this isnt that gender limited
Oh, absolutely not. It's just harder to come up with women who have
enough variety in their roles, especially since most who qualify at all
have concentrated on just one kind of action. I think Michelle Pfeiffer
wins the award for best variety, of those we've discussed so far.
Something else just occurred to me, too: if someone's been archiving
this thread (as I haven't), it might be good to forward it to Aaron
Allston. The Producer, a villain in his Strike Force Universe (at the time
of the original book, at least), could make great use of these lists.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:14:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> 15 Tactics 18-
Only? You ought to throw Strategy in there, too.
> 80 Army of the moment 16, 000 50-point Followers
Heh.
> 3 Life Support, immune to aging
> 3 1 BODY Regen, recovery rate: per decade
Actually....I'd put the regen as higher - Amberites always recovered darn
quickly. What would be limited would be the amount of regrowth - Benedict
has his full Body when Corwin meets him, but the arm won't regrow for a
while.
> 22 MP (45), "Trump Powers", OAF
> 2m Mind Link, related group, any distance, any dimension, Opens
> psychic Link (+0)
> 4m XD Move, group of dimensions, Only to person/place pictured
> on Trump, Usable By Others, doesn't lose power
I would actually write up a generic Independent trump, and say that the
Amberites have access to them sometimes.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:24:30 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Farie Fire ver 2.0
> Actually, no, you don't need UAO to cast it on another target, because
>Images already affects targets other than self as written.
I guess it was in an older version of Champions (presumably v.3) where it
was explicitly mentioned that to have an area effect power center on a
person and remain with that person, that UAO was needed. Or else it's just
the opium talking. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:26:02 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Farie Fire ver 2.0
I think this is specifically mentioned for Darkness. The idea being that you
can target Darkness on a hex or yourself but can't have it stay centered on
a moving target without UAO. The same logic could easily apply to Images.
or... it could just be the pot talking. 8P
BRI
] > Actually, no, you don't need UAO to cast it on another
] target, because
] >Images already affects targets other than self as written.
]
] I guess it was in an older version of Champions (presumably
] v.3) where it
] was explicitly mentioned that to have an area effect power center on a
] person and remain with that person, that UAO was needed. Or
] else it's just
] the opium talking. :)
]
] Geoff Speare
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:47:55 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
At 09:14 AM 5/12/99 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
>> 15 Tactics 18-
>
>Only?
Don't forget that he has 3 overall levels, giving him a Tactics of 21-
if he isn't involved in something else. In point of fact, a GM should
just give Ben about 5 more levels of Tactics than anyone else in
in the campaign.
> You ought to throw Strategy in there, too.
I'm trying to stick wtih standard skills. Tactics covers both tactical and
strategic skills.
>> 80 Army of the moment 16, 000 50-point Followers
>
>Heh.
>
>> 3 Life Support, immune to aging
>> 3 1 BODY Regen, recovery rate: per decade
>
>Actually....I'd put the regen as higher - Amberites always recovered darn
>quickly. What would be limited would be the amount of regrowth - Benedict
>has his full Body when Corwin meets him, but the arm won't regrow for a
>while.
Okay. Possibly true. How would you model that?
>> 22 MP (45), "Trump Powers", OAF
>> 2m Mind Link, related group, any distance, any dimension, Opens
>> psychic Link (+0)
>> 4m XD Move, group of dimensions, Only to person/place pictured
>> on Trump, Usable By Others, doesn't lose power
>
>I would actually write up a generic Independent trump, and say that the
>Amberites have access to them sometimes.
Why?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:31:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
On Wed, 12 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> Don't forget that he has 3 overall levels, giving him a Tactics of 21-
> if he isn't involved in something else. In point of fact, a GM should
> just give Ben about 5 more levels of Tactics than anyone else in
> in the campaign.
Good idea.
> >> 3 Life Support, immune to aging
> >> 3 1 BODY Regen, recovery rate: per decade
> >
> >Actually....I'd put the regen as higher - Amberites always recovered darn
> >quickly. What would be limited would be the amount of regrowth - Benedict
> >has his full Body when Corwin meets him, but the arm won't regrow for a
> >while.
>
> Okay. Possibly true. How would you model that?
Well, if this were 5th ed, limit the 'Regrow lost body parts' portion of
the power.
Since it's 4th ed, and there's no clear ruling on whether Regen lets you
regrow things...hmm...it's rough. Maybe just note that it happens and
takes about this long? Pay a nominal fee? With the time span, it's not
going to come up in play /too/ often...
> >> 22 MP (45), "Trump Powers", OAF
> >> 2m Mind Link, related group, any distance, any dimension, Opens
> >> psychic Link (+0)
> >> 4m XD Move, group of dimensions, Only to person/place pictured
> >> on Trump, Usable By Others, doesn't lose power
> >
> >I would actually write up a generic Independent trump, and say that the
> >Amberites have access to them sometimes.
>
> Why?
I was under the impression that the Trumps were innately magical. Don't
some non-Amberites use them? (I can't recall if Merlin gave a Trump to
Bill Roth or not...)
Now /drawing/ Trumps (or whatshisname's ability to 'eavesdrop' on them)
might be innate powers.
Also, I think technically you need to add Teleport into the Trump power
listing, since you can Trump from place to place in one dimension as well
- - but with the limitations on the power, I don't think it's really a
problem.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:47:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: More Celebrity Champions
I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a good
start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
contribute stuff.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
On Wed, 12 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a good
> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
> contribute stuff.
I'd like to nominate Christopher Lee, who in addition to Dracula and the
like, also showed up in the title role of _The Man with the Golden Gun_,
and as German officers in things like _1941_.
- -Ben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:18:58 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 09:58 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Ben Brown wrote:
>On Wed, 12 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
>> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a good
>> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
>> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
>> contribute stuff.
>
>I'd like to nominate Christopher Lee, who in addition to Dracula and the
>like, also showed up in the title role of _The Man with the Golden Gun_,
>and as German officers in things like _1941_.
>
And since we've mentioned Lugosi, Karloff, Chaney, and Lee, we might as
well add Peter Cushing. His long list of roles includes Dr. Who, Sherlock
Holmes, Grand Moff Tarkin, Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Van Helsing.
With all these suggestions, it seems to me a whole group of actors, each
with a multiform of past roles, would make for a pretty cool campaign. It
might be particularly fun if the base personalities were played with the
flaws one might expect of stars - rampant egotism, addictions, etc. Imagine
using People Magazine as a gaming aid.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:22:22 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
At 11:31 AM 5/12/99 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Wed, 12 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>> >> 22 MP (45), "Trump Powers", OAF
>> >> 2m Mind Link, related group, any distance, any dimension, Opens
>> >> psychic Link (+0)
>> >> 4m XD Move, group of dimensions, Only to person/place pictured
>> >> on Trump, Usable By Others, doesn't lose power
>> >
>> >I would actually write up a generic Independent trump, and say that the
>> >Amberites have access to them sometimes.
>>
>> Why?
>
>I was under the impression that the Trumps were innately magical. Don't
>some non-Amberites use them? (I can't recall if Merlin gave a Trump to
>Bill Roth or not...)
Good point. Still, Trumps are rare. Benedict isn't paying for the ability
to use them, so much as he is paying for the deck itself. As for the
limitation: Independent, I admit that I have a personal hostility to this
mechanic. I think it is illogical.
>Now /drawing/ Trumps (or whatshisname's ability to 'eavesdrop' on them)
>might be innate powers.
Brand. Yes, I agree.
>Also, I think technically you need to add Teleport into the Trump power
>listing, since you can Trump from place to place in one dimension as well
>- but with the limitations on the power, I don't think it's really a
>problem.
Pleah. True. Supposedly, the 5th Edition will include very long-range
teleports. I may just cobble together my own version for now.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:01:03 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a
good
> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
> contribute stuff.
Don't forget "Real Genius," in which Val plays one of the top ten minds in
America -- "Someday I hope to be two of them," "The Doors," in which he's
Jim Morrisson, and "Thunderheart," in which he's an FBI agent, I think?
How about Brendan Frazer (George of the Jungle, The Mummy, Encino Man,
Dudley Dooright, Airheads, anyone else think he'd be a perfect live-action
Tick?), Steve Buscemi (Armageddon, Con Air, Fargo, Escape from L.A.),
Wallace Shawn (Princess Bride, Deep Space 9, Mom & Dad Save the World, Toy
Story), or Tom Hanks (Big, Apollo 13, Toy Story, Forrest Gump, Mazes and
Monsters, Man With One Red Shoe, Dragnet, That Thing You Do, League of Their
Own).
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:00:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
On Wed, 12 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> At 11:31 AM 5/12/99 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> >On Wed, 12 May 1999, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >I would actually write up a generic Independent trump, and say that the
> >> >Amberites have access to them sometimes.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >
> >I was under the impression that the Trumps were innately magical. Don't
> >some non-Amberites use them? (I can't recall if Merlin gave a Trump to
> >Bill Roth or not...)
>
> Good point. Still, Trumps are rare. Benedict isn't paying for the ability
> to use them, so much as he is paying for the deck itself. As for the
> limitation: Independent, I admit that I have a personal hostility to this
> mechanic. I think it is illogical.
Ah. With the frequency with which decks are found/lost/stolen/used in the
series, I figured they'd just be 'common equipment' for an Amberite, like
a sword or a pair of shoes.
> >Now /drawing/ Trumps (or whatshisname's ability to 'eavesdrop' on them)
> >might be innate powers.
>
> Brand. Yes, I agree.
Actually, I think it was Caine, although Brand might have been able to do
so as well.
The other thing...how are you going to model the 'psychic duel' that Eric
and Corwin engaged in via the Trumps? I got the impression that that was
a property of the Trumps as well, or at least a side effect of the way
they were used.
Hmm...considering the way they were described, one could even say that the
Trumps had Mind Scan + Telepathy rather than Mind Link...Corwin had to
actively fight to /not/ have the Trump contact open.
> >Also, I think technically you need to add Teleport into the Trump power
> >listing, since you can Trump from place to place in one dimension as well
> >- but with the limitations on the power, I don't think it's really a
> >problem.
>
> Pleah. True. Supposedly, the 5th Edition will include very long-range
> teleports. I may just cobble together my own version for now.
Well, since it's a single fixed location (IMHO) and you /can't/ use it for
anything else, and if it's a Trump of a person you need their cooperation,
I'd say the 'only to the location of the card' would be a big, big
limiter. Then again, since it's only to one single place, I don't think
X-Dim movement is a bad idea either. (Since it can take you to any one
time, why not any one place?)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:06:21 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: RE: More Celebrity Champions
I'd vote for Kurt Russell. Tombstone, Executive Decision, Escape from New York, Escape from LA, Big Trouble in Little China (one of my all-time faves), Tango & Cash, Soldier, Backdraft, Breakdown, Stargate, The Thing... could go on, but let's face it, he's made a few turkeys. But then, hasn't everyone in Hollywood?
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past
- ----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Mattingly [SMTP:dave@haymaker.win.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 May, 1999 14:01
> Cc: Hero Mailing List
> Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
>
> > I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
> > Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a
> good
> > start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
> > Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
> > contribute stuff.
>
> Don't forget "Real Genius," in which Val plays one of the top ten minds in
> America -- "Someday I hope to be two of them," "The Doors," in which he's
> Jim Morrisson, and "Thunderheart," in which he's an FBI agent, I think?
>
> How about Brendan Frazer (George of the Jungle, The Mummy, Encino Man,
> Dudley Dooright, Airheads, anyone else think he'd be a perfect live-action
> Tick?), Steve Buscemi (Armageddon, Con Air, Fargo, Escape from L.A.),
> Wallace Shawn (Princess Bride, Deep Space 9, Mom & Dad Save the World, Toy
> Story), or Tom Hanks (Big, Apollo 13, Toy Story, Forrest Gump, Mazes and
> Monsters, Man With One Red Shoe, Dragnet, That Thing You Do, League of Their
> Own).
>
> Dave Mattingly
> http://haymaker.org
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:52:14 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 09:58 AM 5/12/1999 -0700, Ben Brown wrote:
>On Wed, 12 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
>> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a good
>> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
>> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
>> contribute stuff.
>
>I'd like to nominate Christopher Lee, who in addition to Dracula and the
>like, also showed up in the title role of _The Man with the Golden Gun_,
>and as German officers in things like _1941_.
Good one! And didn't he also appear in Star Trek VI and/or Star Wars,
and do a lot of Westerns as well? (Or am I thinking of someone else?)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:03:25 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 05:50 PM 5/12/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
>Cc: "Hero Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
>
>> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
>> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a
>good
>> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
>> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
>> contribute stuff.
>
>Don't forget "Real Genius," in which Val plays one of the top ten minds in
>America -- "Someday I hope to be two of them," "The Doors," in which he's
>Jim Morrisson, and "Thunderheart," in which he's an FBI agent, I think?
>
>How about Brendan Frazer (George of the Jungle, The Mummy, Encino Man,
>Dudley Dooright, Airheads, anyone else think he'd be a perfect live-action
>Tick?), Steve Buscemi (Armageddon, Con Air, Fargo, Escape from L.A.),
>Wallace Shawn (Princess Bride, Deep Space 9, Mom & Dad Save the World, Toy
>Story), or Tom Hanks (Big, Apollo 13, Toy Story, Forrest Gump, Mazes and
>Monsters, Man With One Red Shoe, Dragnet, That Thing You Do, League of Their
>Own).
How about:
Jerry Lewis - Which Way to the Front?, The Delicate Delinquent, The
Disorderly Orderly, The Nutty Professor, The Bellboy
Peter Sellers - Casino Royale, Dr Strangelove, The Pink Panther, The
Mouse That Roared, Murder By Death
Maurice LaMarche - Splitzy/Dr Splitz (Captain Simian & the Space
Monkeys), The Brain, Egon Spengler, and I'm sure there are plenty of others
Richard Dean Anderson - MacGyver, Legend, Stargate SG-1
Mandy Patinkin - Princess Bride, Alien Nation, Dick Tracy
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:05:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 01:18 PM 5/12/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>With all these suggestions, it seems to me a whole group of actors, each
>with a multiform of past roles, would make for a pretty cool campaign. It
>might be particularly fun if the base personalities were played with the
>flaws one might expect of stars - rampant egotism, addictions, etc. Imagine
>using People Magazine as a gaming aid.
There are other possibilities as well, two of which are:
- Nigh-literal "celebrity champions," where the actors all have a
conglomeration of powers and abilities from their roles.
- A fantasy or science fiction setting where each individual that the
PCs meet is a different role that has been played by the same actor.
(Maybe each society is made up of clones?)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:06:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: More Celebrity Champions
At 02:06 PM 5/12/1999 -0400, Johnson, Adam wrote:
>I'd vote for Kurt Russell. Tombstone, Executive Decision, Escape from New
York, Escape from LA, Big Trouble in Little China (one of my all-time
faves), Tango & Cash, Soldier, Backdraft, Breakdown, Stargate, The Thing...
could go on, but let's face it, he's made a few turkeys. But then, hasn't
everyone in Hollywood?
Yeah; plus, in the previous discussion on Kurt, we mentioned his early
movies with Disney, with The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes and The Strongest
Man In the World at the top of the list.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:17:15 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 12:05 PM 5/12/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 01:18 PM 5/12/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>>With all these suggestions, it seems to me a whole group of actors, each
>>with a multiform of past roles, would make for a pretty cool campaign. It
>>might be particularly fun if the base personalities were played with the
>>flaws one might expect of stars - rampant egotism, addictions, etc. Imagine
>>using People Magazine as a gaming aid.
>
> There are other possibilities as well, two of which are:
> - Nigh-literal "celebrity champions," where the actors all have a
>conglomeration of powers and abilities from their roles.
> - A fantasy or science fiction setting where each individual that the
>PCs meet is a different role that has been played by the same actor.
>(Maybe each society is made up of clones?)
>---
Yeep. Just imagine Gilbert Gottfried World, where everyone & everything,
including birds & toasters (Iago from Aladdin and the toaster from that
Eggo commercial) has that annoying screechy voice. And the Internet Movie
Database informs me that he did the voice of Mr. Mxyzptlk for the Superman
cartoon...
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:20:29 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber - Rough Draft
At 06:39 PM 5/12/99 +0000, Curtis A Gibson wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 1999 15:46:19 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>22 MP (45), "Trump Powers", OAF
>>2m Mind Link, related group, any distance, any dimension, Opens
>> psychic Link (+0)
>>4m XD Move, group of dimensions, Only to person/place pictured
>> on Trump, Usable By Others, doesn't lose power
>>
>>6. The Trump powers require a pack of cards known as trumps. The
>>Trumps show all the members of the family and allow mental contact
>>when concentrated on. The family member can attempt to refuse
>>the contact, which requires a psychic conflict (an EGO v. EGO roll).
>>
>
>Overall a very good write up. I'd up the dex but that is just me.
Why?
>how are you modelling the psychic fights that can make one member of
>the family a mindslave of the other? I'm refering to the commentary by
>corwin when he trumps eric, during the sea battle if I'm not mistaken
Well, more specifically, they can immoblize each other. Caine couldn't
bend Corwin to his will (although I'm not saying another couldn't accomplish
this). Clearly, it's a form of limited mind control. I was hoping to get by
with noting that it was possible with the trumps and not really model it at
all. But since so many have asked, I'll put out a post at some time that
explains how such things should be modelled in my opinion.
>I like the way you handle the trump and pattern powers. I can't wait
>to the the logrus versions (I liked the second series.. unlike most
>others I know). I've toyed with the idea of an amber campaign and I
>plan to use your modelings of the powers. Thanks. (I can't stand
>diceless games, and a number of the design choices for the ADRPG just
>annoy me. that's why I do it in hero)
>
>Can't wait to see the rest.
Thanks. It is funny how much antipathy there is between diced and
diceless games. Hero is occasionally maligned on the Amber list. I see
them as two different ends of a spectrum. I like the whole spectrum.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:42:44 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More Celebrity Champions
At 09:58 AM 5/12/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Wed, 12 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> I thought of another one last night: Val Kilmer. With Moses, Batman,
>> Simon "The Saint" Templar, and "Doc" Holliday to his credit, one has a good
>> start; roles in "Willow," "Top Gun," "Top Secret!," "The Island of Dr
>> Moreau," and various other films that I'm less familiar with might also
>> contribute stuff.
>
>I'd like to nominate Christopher Lee, who in addition to Dracula and the
>like, also showed up in the title role of _The Man with the Golden Gun_,
>and as German officers in things like _1941_.
>
>-Ben
>
Also found in the movie Circle of Iron playing a martial arts master,
though we never see him fight.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:12:27 -0700
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net>
Subject: Ciao!
I'm leaving for a week or two, as Matthew and I are moving from Reno to
Portland this week (I know now why my parents always hired
packers...ugh!) I'll re-subscribe when things are more settled. =)
Anyone wanting to hook up for a Champs/Hero game in a few weeks in the
Portland area, do e-mail!
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
http://www.mactyre.net/shelley/
Look! An updated homepage!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:14:02 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: "Living Champions" and STR/CON cost
<Plenty of excellent points snipped>
Ditto.
> For what it's worth...
> -Dave
It is worth a lot, thank you.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:16:15 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Diceless (was CHAR: Benedict)
At 04:20 PM 5/12/1999 -0400, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
>Thanks. It is funny how much antipathy there is between diced and
>diceless games. Hero is occasionally maligned on the Amber list. I see
>them as two different ends of a spectrum. I like the whole spectrum.
Next time someone disses Hero for its use of dice, you can refer them to:
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original/diceless.htm
My system for Diceless Hero isn't for everyone by any stretch of the
imagination, but it's gotten some good reviews. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #338
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:57 PM