Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 340
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 3:47 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #340
champ-l-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 340
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber -Second Draft
Re: CHAR: Drow (background)
Re: CHAR: Drow (background)
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: The Hero system
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:15:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Benedict, Weapons Master of Amber -Second Draft
I would add KS: Analyze Combat Technique, if he studies combat and
fighting arts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:38:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Drow (background)
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Equipment:
> The drow use mail armor of the finest quality, as well as swords, daggers
> and maces of a strange alloy. The mail is superior to human made mail (+1
> DEF) and yet weighs less (1/2 normal weight). Their arms are noted for
> their sharpness (+1 Damage Class) as well.
You didn't mention the cloak and boots of Elvenkind here (but you do later
on), and you also don't mention the other thing that makes Drow equipment
notable: they lose their magical properties (and I think even eventually
disintegrate) if they are exposed to sunlight.
Drow Cloaks and Boots are probably best done as skill levels in Stealth
and Camoflage with the limitation IIF (boots) and OIF (cloak). (I chose
IIF for the boots since I can't think how it would be Obvious that the
boots are what makes the wearer stealthy...on the other hand, the cloak
actually does the chameleon thing so it's a bit clearer that it's magical.
YMMV.)
The loss of power under sunlight is a bit tougher to model - ideally, it'd
be a sort of Susceptibilitythat slowly drains away at the BODY of an item
as well as at its magical powers. I suppose you could hack something
together out of Limited Power or even Side Effects.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:43:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Drow (background)
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > Equipment:
> > The drow use mail armor of the finest quality, as well as swords, daggers
> > and maces of a strange alloy. The mail is superior to human made mail (+1
> > DEF) and yet weighs less (1/2 normal weight). Their arms are noted for
> > their sharpness (+1 Damage Class) as well.
>
> You didn't mention the cloak and boots of Elvenkind here (but you do later
> on), and you also don't mention the other thing that makes Drow equipment
> notable: they lose their magical properties (and I think even eventually
> disintegrate) if they are exposed to sunlight.
Yeah... well... uhm... this is Drow lite?
I was thinking about writing up the equipment, but then decided to abadon
that idea, as not everyone will have the same opinions as to how it works,
or if they want to use it. Myself, I'd probaly keep the drow powers, but
dump most of the equipment.
> Drow Cloaks and Boots are probably best done as skill levels in Stealth
> and Camoflage with the limitation IIF (boots) and OIF (cloak). (I chose
> IIF for the boots since I can't think how it would be Obvious that the
> boots are what makes the wearer stealthy...on the other hand, the cloak
> actually does the chameleon thing so it's a bit clearer that it's magical.
> YMMV.)
Except the drow can move silently anyway... so who needs the boots? The
cloak is probably Images (only to conceal form).
> The loss of power under sunlight is a bit tougher to model - ideally, it'd
> be a sort of Susceptibilitythat slowly drains away at the BODY of an item
> as well as at its magical powers. I suppose you could hack something
> together out of Limited Power or even Side Effects.
I'd say a Limited Power, or just SFX.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:20:11 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 07:00 AM 5/13/99 -0700, Tracy L Birdine wrote:
>To let you in on a little secret, I have--had, been developing a
>roleplaying system based on an SF novel I had been writing at the time.
>I started way back in, oh, about 1989 or thereabouts.
[clip]
>I looked at the Hero system with its infinite flexibilty and immediately
>came to the conclusion I was trying to re-invent the wheel. Hero did
>exactly what I wanted it to do and far more elegantly than *I* could ever
>come up with. I was introduced to the segmented combat table and my draw
>dropped. It's simulates simultaneous action with characters of varying
>speeds far more realistically than I'd ever seen before.
A similar experience happened to me. I had an idea for a SF campaign, and
had been experimenting with several SF game systems (FASA's Star Trek, TSR's
Star Frontiers, Megatraveller, etc.) to see if I could get a "close enough
for jazz" model of the campaign within their rules. I ended up griping about
my difficulties one day to my brother, who just says offhand, "Why not just
use HERO?"
Boy, did I feel dumb. :]
>1997 I run into the Hero System (which heretofor I had been avoiding
>'cause I *thought* it was only for SuperHero gaming for which, except for
>a few exceptions, is a genre I generally dislike).
(Yes, this is excerpted out of order.)
IMO, this is the biggest problem HERO faces in the market -- NOT its
complexity, NOT its "broken mechanics", but the simple fact that
Conventional Wisdom holds it "only good for superheroes" ... and apparently,
superheroes isn't a genre lots of gamers are burning to play to the
exclusion of all else. (To which I ask, why not? :] :])
- --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:22:40 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
> One would hope that the widely acclaimed Incomplete Character Rules would
> be brought into 5th Edition and used to "unify" vehicles, bases,
computers,
> ghosts, etc., but it's only a hope as far as I know...
I don't think so: I asked Steve Long about that very thing. That was almost
a year ago when I asked, but I doubt that it's changed.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:34:52 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 May 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>
> > At 09:59 PM 5/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
> > Hey Mr. Surbrook! Since you're doing Hero stats for everything under the
> > sun, how about turning an eye to the Southern Knights? Myself, I just
> > wanna see Carl & Larry. (They were very popular, despite being hitmen.)
>
> I don't have any of my Southern Knights stuff anymore...
>
> Hey, if anyone else out there does, I'd love to stick 'em up on my
> website.
I know I still have the first dozen? issues, but I'll have to dig them
out. I think we need to see a write-up of Ant-Boy as well. The backup
feature for Captain Confederacy. It shouldn't take very long...
While I'm at it, I'll post Red Basher and Captain Maximum.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:42:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
On Thu, 13 May 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
> > One would hope that the widely acclaimed Incomplete Character Rules would
> > be brought into 5th Edition and used to "unify" vehicles, bases,
> computers,
> > ghosts, etc., but it's only a hope as far as I know...
>
> I don't think so: I asked Steve Long about that very thing. That was almost
> a year ago when I asked, but I doubt that it's changed.
So...where can I find these Incomplete Character Rules?
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Mark Lemming wrote:
> Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > > Hey Mr. Surbrook! Since you're doing Hero stats for everything under the
> > > sun, how about turning an eye to the Southern Knights? Myself, I just
> > > wanna see Carl & Larry. (They were very popular, despite being hitmen.)
> >
> > I don't have any of my Southern Knights stuff anymore...
> >
> > Hey, if anyone else out there does, I'd love to stick 'em up on my
> > website.
>
> I know I still have the first dozen? issues, but I'll have to dig them
> out. I think we need to see a write-up of Ant-Boy as well. The backup
> feature for Captain Confederacy. It shouldn't take very long...
>
> While I'm at it, I'll post Red Basher and Captain Maximum.
Mark - that would be great. May I place them on my site? I'd like to
turn it into a character archive much like Deejay's old site.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:41:56 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 09:58 AM 5/11/1999 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >
> >I had an easy time thinking of actors for the Silverblade-style past roles
> >multiform, but at first I couldn't think of any appropriate actresses.
> >Women in genre movies tend to be in need of rescue, so not a lot of
> >actresses have roles in their past that would have useful powers. It
> >occurred to me, though, that Daryl Hannah does. She was a mermaid in
> >Splash, a replicant in Blade Runner, a cave woman in Clan of the Cave Bear,
> >a ghost in High Spirits, and she had the title role in the 1993 Attack of
> >the 50 Foot Woman.
> >
> >Uma Thurman would have a few powerful characters to choose from, too: Emma
> >Peel in The Avengers, Poison Ivy in Batman & Robin, and the goddess Venus
> >in The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
>
> I think Michelle Pfeiffer would have some good ones too, with the title
> role in Ladyhawke, Catwoman in Batman Forever, and an ex-marine high school
> teacher in Dangerous Minds for starters.
Gena Davis: "A ghost in Beetle Juice", a pirate captain in "Cutthroat
Island", and an assassin in "A long kiss goodnight" to start.
Kathleen Turner has enough of a range as well from "Serial Mom" to "??? Blues"
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:49:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Celebrity Champions (was Yul Brynner)
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Mark Lemming wrote:
> Gena Davis: "A ghost in Beetle Juice", a pirate captain in "Cutthroat
> Island", and an assassin in "A long kiss goodnight" to start.
> Kathleen Turner has enough of a range as well from "Serial Mom" to "??? Blues"
"Undercover Blues" with the world's greatest insult for Prof Murte
"Hey Morty, howya doin?"
"That's MURTE!"
"Yeah, whatever Morty..."
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I registered my copy of the Bible. I'm hoping to get an upgrade
in the mail."
Darren Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:11:18 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>So...where can I find these Incomplete Character Rules?
They are on a webste somewhere...I'd love to link to them from my site, as
they have my vote for the "If I could put one thing into 5th edition, what
would it be" contest.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
- --- "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>
> > > One would hope that the widely acclaimed Incomplete Character Rules would
> > > be brought into 5th Edition and used to "unify" vehicles, bases,
> > computers,
> > > ghosts, etc., but it's only a hope as far as I know...
> >
> > I don't think so: I asked Steve Long about that very thing. That was almost
> > a year ago when I asked, but I doubt that it's changed.
>
> So...where can I find these Incomplete Character Rules?
A quick check in my list-o-links yields:
http://www.best.com/~jimalj/incomp.html
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:17:37 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>>1997 I run into the Hero System (which heretofor I had been avoiding
>>'cause I *thought* it was only for SuperHero gaming for which, except for
>>a few exceptions, is a genre I generally dislike).
>
>(Yes, this is excerpted out of order.)
>
>IMO, this is the biggest problem HERO faces in the market -- NOT its
>complexity, NOT its "broken mechanics", but the simple fact that
>Conventional Wisdom holds it "only good for superheroes" ... and apparently,
>superheroes isn't a genre lots of gamers are burning to play to the
>exclusion of all else. (To which I ask, why not? :] :])
That's why I purposely try to run odd games like Vietnam and such at
conventions, to show the flexibility. It will literally run any type of
game but there are SOME systems that do it better at what they do (Toon,
Call of Cthulhu).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:33:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>
>>Question though: Will there be any *major* changes in the vehicle rules?
>> I've got a slew of vehicles waiting to be done up on actual sheets, but
>>waiting to see what 5th E will do about the rules...
>
>One would hope that the widely acclaimed Incomplete Character Rules would
>be brought into 5th Edition and used to "unify" vehicles, bases, computers,
>ghosts, etc., but it's only a hope as far as I know...
I seem to recall that someone (Bruce Harlick?) said that they had looked at
those, but not elected to include them. Generally speaking, remember that
very little entirely new has been added/changed; it's mostly adjustments in
the margins, addition of a few more custom modifiers, clarifications, and
discussions of ways to use the extent rules in more detail.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:55:10 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>I seem to recall that someone (Bruce Harlick?) said that they had looked at
>those, but not elected to include them. Generally speaking, remember that
>very little entirely new has been added/changed; it's mostly adjustments in
>the margins, addition of a few more custom modifiers, clarifications, and
>discussions of ways to use the extent rules in more detail.
Yeah, I know, but they seem to change the vehicle rules every edition
anyway. :)
Since the Incomplete Character rules would help roll in stuff like Spirits
and cyberspace, it seems like it would be a good "investment" to have them
in the core rules.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:06:13 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Hero system
In a message dated 5/13/99 4:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
writes:
<< >I seem to recall that someone (Bruce Harlick?) said that they had looked
at
>those, but not elected to include them. Generally speaking, remember that
>very little entirely new has been added/changed; it's mostly adjustments in
>the margins, addition of a few more custom modifiers, clarifications, and
>discussions of ways to use the extent rules in more detail.
Yeah, I know, but they seem to change the vehicle rules every edition
anyway. :) >>
Well, not this time. :)
<< Since the Incomplete Character rules would help roll in stuff like Spirits
and cyberspace, it seems like it would be a good "investment" to have them
in the core rules.
But I'm not holding my breath.>>
Good, I (for one) wouldn't want you to pass out. :)
Seriously, though, as the authors of Incomplete Characters themselves
admit, what they did really wasn't "new," specifically, so much as it was
bringing a bunch of stuff together and unifying it in a fine and useful
fashion (for which they are to be commended!). Since we had to exclude the
Spirit rules entirely (they'd have taken up too much room), some of the
updated/revised/whatever you want to call it material in the 5th Ed. covers
some of the information in the IC article or provides way to do it which the
IC authors weren't aware of, and there's always the possibility of delving
into all of this in thorough detail in an Ultimate book or some future
product, it was deemed better not to take up any space in an already-crowded
book by trying to wedge something like the IC rules in there in some form.
So, in short, no, you won't see it. But there's always the
possibility of looking into the subject in future books. :)
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:08:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>>>1997 I run into the Hero System (which heretofor I had been avoiding
>>>'cause I *thought* it was only for SuperHero gaming for which, except for
>>>a few exceptions, is a genre I generally dislike).
>>
>>(Yes, this is excerpted out of order.)
>>
>>IMO, this is the biggest problem HERO faces in the market -- NOT its
>>complexity, NOT its "broken mechanics", but the simple fact that
>>Conventional Wisdom holds it "only good for superheroes" ... and apparently,
>>superheroes isn't a genre lots of gamers are burning to play to the
>>exclusion of all else. (To which I ask, why not? :] :])
>
>That's why I purposely try to run odd games like Vietnam and such at
>conventions, to show the flexibility. It will literally run any type of
>game but there are SOME systems that do it better at what they do (Toon,
>Call of Cthulhu).
I'll go on record with the heretical thought (for a Hero fan) that outside
of superheroes, there are probably individual games that have been
customized to most very specific genres and do the job better than Hero. On
the other hand if you have anything other than the specific sort of take
they're trying for, you may very well need to do more work with those
specific games than you do with Hero. I tend to think of Hero as the Swiss
Army Knife of game systems; it may not always be the best tool for the job,
but then, you may well not own the best tool for the job, and it may not
even exist.
This isn't even going into the issue of not having to relearn a new system
all the time instead of using one you know quite well...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:16:27 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
> So, in short, no, you won't see it. But there's always the
> possibility of looking into the subject in future books. :)
Which just leaves the possibility that someone somewhere may get a chance to
write a new book. Not necessarily a bad thing.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:51:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Wayne Shaw wrote:
> I'll go on record with the heretical thought (for a Hero fan) that outside
> of superheroes, there are probably individual games that have been
> customized to most very specific genres and do the job better than Hero. On
I agree. IMO, these games are: Call of Cthulthu, Toon and Feng Shui
(maaaaybe Paranoia).
> the other hand if you have anything other than the specific sort of take
> they're trying for, you may very well need to do more work with those
> specific games than you do with Hero. I tend to think of Hero as the Swiss
> Army Knife of game systems; it may not always be the best tool for the job,
> but then, you may well not own the best tool for the job, and it may not
> even exist.
A very valid point and very true. Also, Hero is very intergrated, so that
characters from different games can mesh together very weill with little
reworking.
> This isn't even going into the issue of not having to relearn a new system
> all the time instead of using one you know quite well...
Heck, play GURPS. You might have to relearn the system everytime you
switch genres...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Maybe I haven't destroyed enough stuff..."
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:29:02 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>I'll go on record with the heretical thought (for a Hero fan) that outside
>of superheroes, there are probably individual games that have been
>customized to most very specific genres and do the job better than Hero. On
>the other hand if you have anything other than the specific sort of take
>they're trying for, you may very well need to do more work with those
>specific games than you do with Hero. I tend to think of Hero as the Swiss
>Army Knife of game systems; it may not always be the best tool for the job,
>but then, you may well not own the best tool for the job, and it may not
>even exist.
I really like that line :) It fits rather well for Hero, honestly there
are systems that are pretty good at what they do, Runequest, for example,
but Hero handles it all rather well too. Hero has its faults, and I dont
have any trouble noting them, but some of the faults that loom large in our
eyes are rather mole-hilly. Its nice to hear from a recent convert because
they love all the things that attracted us, and they are fresh to them (wow
the stats make sense!!! wow the combat system rocks, I can do ANYTHING!!
Wow, I can make my own character and learn different skills along the way!!!)
>This isn't even going into the issue of not having to relearn a new system
>all the time instead of using one you know quite well...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:58:47 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>Initially, I was a little miffed because I had *just* gotten Edition
>4.1 and learned a few days later that 5th Edition was coming out. I
>automatically assumed it was going to make all my character sheets
>instantly obsolete. (I'm a real late comer to the system)
While I started hacking HSR in the late 1980's with 4th edition, I have
read back to some 2nd and 3rd edition stuff. The changes between the 1st
edition rules and 4th edition are pretty large, but mostly tweaks.
Although you'd about have to rewrite a first or second editon character
to make it work, the changes wouldn't be that big. The stats could stay
the same, a lot of the skill and popowerrs would stay the same, they'd
just operate under under more refined rules.
Some powers have been altered and/or changed, so the things such a
character might be able to do would change, and some powers would have to
be yanked out, rebuilt and reinstalled.
I also saw Hero 4th edition and deluxe hero 4th edition. Even though the
rule bule was basically rearranged (new graphics, new layout), and some
cases were rewritten (there were subtle additons to how things were
intrepreted.) it didn't change a lot so much as refine what was already
there.
I am willing to bet that the 5th editon ruules will be the same sort of
deal. An over all refinment but no real earth shaking changes.
IMHO there woukld be no way to improve the 4th edition system with a
major change. Refinements are all it needs.
And then you have to remember the the programmers rukle entymology-
There's always one more bug.
As soon as 5th editon hs been out for a week, they'll have to open up a
file for suggested fixes for HSR 6th editon...
>Whew! I am happy to see that will not be the case. Not that that I'm
>not going to purchase 5th E anyway, 'cause Iyam!
I may have to wait a while for financial reasons, but eventually It will
be mine as well.
>I looked at the Hero system with its infinite flexibilty and
>immediately came to the conclusion I was trying to re-invent the
>wheel.
That's the same process that led me to replace GURPS with HSR as my
default system. There's nothing I'd want to game that couldn't be
adequately modeled with HSR.
> Hero did exactly what I wanted it to do and far more elegantly
>than *I* could ever come up with. I was introduced to the segmented
>combat table and my draw dropped. It's simulates simultaneous action
>with characters of varying speeds far more realistically than I'd ever
>seen before.
It's very complex, but works for mutli character movements well.
>Oddly enough, I'll probably never ever use Hero for Superhero gaming
>(I still dislike the genre as a whole, but that's just simply a
>personal preference and not because there's anything wrong with it.)
>I'm just an SF/Fantasy/Contemporary Adventure kinda guy.
Really? You used to do some superhero work back when you were an artist.
I recall a very brawl Hawk291 drew between Iron Man and Dr. Doom...
>I looked at the fusion rules and went, "eh." Hero is just fine.
Me too
>|- /\ \\/ |<
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:09:49 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 01:17 PM 5/13/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
>That's why I purposely try to run odd games like Vietnam and such at
>conventions, to show the flexibility. It will literally run any type of
>game but there are SOME systems that do it better at what they do (Toon,
>Call of Cthulhu).
Well, Horror Hero didn't come out too badly IMO; and one of the projects
I have burning in the back of my mind is Saturday Morning Hero... :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:12:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 04:55 PM 5/13/1999 -0400, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
>Since the Incomplete Character rules would help roll in stuff like Spirits
>and cyberspace, it seems like it would be a good "investment" to have them
>in the core rules.
>
>But I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe if the Hero Guys decide to revive the Hero System Almanacs
(something which I, for one, would be strongly in favor of), maybe the IC
rules can appear in the first new one. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:08:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 07:00 AM 5/13/1999 -0700, Tracy L Birdine wrote:
>
>First off, I don't remember reading anywhere in the rules book that you
>*have* to follow *all* the rules chapter and verse. After all, what do
>you think *House Rules* mean?
I think that, somewhere along the way, someone on the "inside" (one of
the Steves, I think) remarked that the new rulebook will include a
statement that basically legitimizes all house rules. (Not that house
rules were ever really illegitimate before; this would just make the
philosophy explicit.)
>To let you in on a little secret, I have--had, been developing a
>roleplaying system based on an SF novel I had been writing at the time.
>I started way back in, oh, about 1989 or thereabouts.
Interestingly, I did the same thing with a fantasy setting I was toying
with writing stories in at the time.
I also have a set of science-fiction novels I've written (I say "set"
rather than "series," because it consists of three interlocked series)
whose setting would be beautifully represented by the Hero System.
(The fantasy setting is actually better represented in Fuzion; those on
this list who play Fuzion and have seen my Matrix Magic Plug-In can
probably understand why.)
>I looked at the Hero system with its infinite flexibilty and immediately
>came to the conclusion I was trying to re-invent the wheel. Hero did
>exactly what I wanted it to do and far more elegantly than *I* could ever
>come up with. I was introduced to the segmented combat table and my draw
>dropped. It's simulates simultaneous action with characters of varying
>speeds far more realistically than I'd ever seen before.
I actually came up with a similar system for my fantasy setting that was
even more realistic, but not as "accessible" (for lack of a better term)
than Hero's SPD system because mine required more on-the-fly math.
>Oddly enough, I'll probably never ever use Hero for Superhero gaming (I
>still dislike the genre as a whole, but that's just simply a personal
>preference and not because there's anything wrong with it.) I'm just an
>SF/Fantasy/Contemporary Adventure kinda guy.
That's OK. While most of my Hero gaming has been superheroic, I've also
done fantasy, super-agents (a la GI Joe), sci-fi, and a couple of things
that would be hard to define with it. And the sci-fi setting I'm working
up includes elements of mecha, military action, space opera, hard sci-fi,
martial arts, and even a little superheroic stuff.
For me, the coolest thing about the Hero System is the ability to mix
and match genres without breaking a sweat. Fuzion could probably do that,
but would need a bit more work. I can't speak for GURPS, Palladium, or
other systems, but I'd assume that a *lot* of extra work would be needed
for those.
>Question though: Will there be any *major* changes in the vehicle rules?
> I've got a slew of vehicles waiting to be done up on actual sheets, but
>waiting to see what 5th E will do about the rules...
Fifth Edition will probably not change the vehicle rules appreciably;
I'm expecting what changes there are, will be mostly cosmetic.
On the other hand, you might want to watch for The Ultimate Vehicle (by
yours truly). I have a bunch of extra rules in that book which you may
find helpful in one way or another.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:36:50 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
I still like AD&D for fantasy. I play Champions for everything else. I loved
the concept of Palladium's Rifts, but in practice it was horrific. I couldn't
convert Heroes Unlimited Characters to RIFTs without Completely rewriting them
and vice versa....its a shame too 'cause Palladium is so prolific in their
suppliments. You can really pick and choose what you want to do and their ideas
are pretty cool. I'd hate to try and write a character generater for them as
each book has dozens of OCC/PCC/RCC's yeesh.
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 07:00 AM 5/13/1999 -0700, Tracy L Birdine wrote:
> >
> >First off, I don't remember reading anywhere in the rules book that you
> >*have* to follow *all* the rules chapter and verse. After all, what do
> >you think *House Rules* mean?
>
> I think that, somewhere along the way, someone on the "inside" (one of
> the Steves, I think) remarked that the new rulebook will include a
> statement that basically legitimizes all house rules. (Not that house
> rules were ever really illegitimate before; this would just make the
> philosophy explicit.)
>
> >To let you in on a little secret, I have--had, been developing a
> >roleplaying system based on an SF novel I had been writing at the time.
> >I started way back in, oh, about 1989 or thereabouts.
>
> Interestingly, I did the same thing with a fantasy setting I was toying
> with writing stories in at the time.
> I also have a set of science-fiction novels I've written (I say "set"
> rather than "series," because it consists of three interlocked series)
> whose setting would be beautifully represented by the Hero System.
> (The fantasy setting is actually better represented in Fuzion; those on
> this list who play Fuzion and have seen my Matrix Magic Plug-In can
> probably understand why.)
>
> >I looked at the Hero system with its infinite flexibilty and immediately
> >came to the conclusion I was trying to re-invent the wheel. Hero did
> >exactly what I wanted it to do and far more elegantly than *I* could ever
> >come up with. I was introduced to the segmented combat table and my draw
> >dropped. It's simulates simultaneous action with characters of varying
> >speeds far more realistically than I'd ever seen before.
>
> I actually came up with a similar system for my fantasy setting that was
> even more realistic, but not as "accessible" (for lack of a better term)
> than Hero's SPD system because mine required more on-the-fly math.
>
> >Oddly enough, I'll probably never ever use Hero for Superhero gaming (I
> >still dislike the genre as a whole, but that's just simply a personal
> >preference and not because there's anything wrong with it.) I'm just an
> >SF/Fantasy/Contemporary Adventure kinda guy.
>
> That's OK. While most of my Hero gaming has been superheroic, I've also
> done fantasy, super-agents (a la GI Joe), sci-fi, and a couple of things
> that would be hard to define with it. And the sci-fi setting I'm working
> up includes elements of mecha, military action, space opera, hard sci-fi,
> martial arts, and even a little superheroic stuff.
> For me, the coolest thing about the Hero System is the ability to mix
> and match genres without breaking a sweat. Fuzion could probably do that,
> but would need a bit more work. I can't speak for GURPS, Palladium, or
> other systems, but I'd assume that a *lot* of extra work would be needed
> for those.
>
> >Question though: Will there be any *major* changes in the vehicle rules?
> > I've got a slew of vehicles waiting to be done up on actual sheets, but
> >waiting to see what 5th E will do about the rules...
>
> Fifth Edition will probably not change the vehicle rules appreciably;
> I'm expecting what changes there are, will be mostly cosmetic.
> On the other hand, you might want to watch for The Ultimate Vehicle (by
> yours truly). I have a bunch of extra rules in that book which you may
> find helpful in one way or another.
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:12:23 -0700
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:58:47 -0700 jayphailey@juno.com writes:
> >Initially, I was a little miffed because I had *just* gotten Edition
>
> Really? You used to do some superhero work back when you were an
> artist. I recall a very brawl Hawk291 drew between Iron Man and Dr.
> Doom...
OH GAWD!! I remember those pages!! Back from when I was trying to get
into Marvel Comics! Iron Man was a favorite at the time and I dug Doc
Doom. I did say there were exceptions to my dislike of the genre.
Anything Frank Miller wrote and/or drew. The Watchmen. Certain story
arcs of the X-Men like Dark Pheonix and the Proteous saga. Independants
like Libby Ellis, Border Worlds, and that time travelling hero Ken Steacy
did. Everything Mobius did.
I realize these are names that only old-timers like myself and Jay
remember...
|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ] ghostwalker@ifr-inc.org
CO/4th Batt., The Horsemen, Black Horse Regiment
*---===( )===---*
Black Horse Webpage: http://www.ifr-inc.org/staffpages/tb.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:39:37 -0700
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
On Thu, 13 May 1999 18:08:07 -0700 Bob Greenwade
<bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
> At 07:00 AM 5/13/1999 -0700, Tracy L Birdine wrote:
>
> >To let you in on a little secret, I have--had, been developing a
> >roleplaying system based on an SF novel I had been writing at the
time.
> >I started way back in, oh, about 1989 or thereabouts.
>
> Interestingly, I did the same thing with a fantasy setting I was
toying
> with writing stories in at the time.
> I also have a set of science-fiction novels I've written (I say
"set"
> rather than "series," because it consists of three interlocked series)
> whose setting would be beautifully represented by the Hero System.
I'm finding the same thing happening here. I'm working on a sequal to
the first book and a novel with two of the main characters, but its set
in a much earlier period of their lives. Sort of a prequal...
> (The fantasy setting is actually better represented in Fuzion;
> those on
> this list who play Fuzion and have seen my Matrix Magic Plug-In can
> probably understand why.)
A while back I posted some character sheets for the characters in the
fantasy novel I'm currently doing as a work-in-progress for the RPG
Times...
> >Oddly enough, I'll probably never ever use Hero for Superhero gaming
(I
> >still dislike the genre as a whole, but that's just simply a personal
> >preference and not because there's anything wrong with it.) I'm just
an
> >SF/Fantasy/Contemporary Adventure kinda guy.
>
> That's OK. While most of my Hero gaming has been superheroic, I've
also
> done fantasy, super-agents (a la GI Joe), sci-fi, and a couple of
things
> that would be hard to define with it. And the sci-fi setting I'm
working
> up includes elements of mecha, military action, space opera, hard
sci-fi,
> martial arts, and even a little superheroic stuff.
Same here, except my Mecha will be limited to sort of a
anthropormorphized (natch) cross between starfighter and tank. Lot's of
military action. Lot of character stuff. Hard SF. Metaphysical stuff.
and of course the grand space opera.
I actually wrote a short story featuring one of the main characters. I
wonder if the folks on the list would mind overly much if I posted it?
> For me, the coolest thing about the Hero System is the ability to
mix
> and match genres without breaking a sweat.
Ayup.
> Fuzion could probably do that,
> but would need a bit more work. I can't speak for GURPS, Palladium,
or
> other systems, but I'd assume that a *lot* of extra work would be
needed
> for those.
Yes. Except GURPS does have excellent sourcebooks...
> >Question though: Will there be any *major* changes in the vehicle
rules?
> > I've got a slew of vehicles waiting to be done up on actual sheets,
but
> >waiting to see what 5th E will do about the rules...
>
> Fifth Edition will probably not change the vehicle rules
appreciably;
> I'm expecting what changes there are, will be mostly cosmetic.
> On the other hand, you might want to watch for The Ultimate Vehicle
(by
> yours truly). I have a bunch of extra rules in that book which you
may
> find helpful in one way or another.
Oh, do come out with The Ultimate Vehicle! It'd probably make liife much
easier... :-)
>
>
|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ] ghostwalker@ifr-inc.org
CO/4th Batt., The Horsemen, Black Horse Regiment
*---===( )===---*
Black Horse Webpage: http://www.ifr-inc.org/staffpages/tb.html
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #340
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:57 PM