Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 341
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 6:48 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #341
champ-l-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 341
In this issue:
Re: The Hero system
Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
KAZEI 5!!!
Re: KAZEI 5!!!
Re: KAZEI 5!!!
Re: The Hero system
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: The Hero system
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: The Hero system
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: KAZEI 5!!!
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: The Hero system
Re: The Hero system
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
'Hero Points' in HERO
Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition (fwd)
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
Re: Cumulative effect question
Off Topic = mail crashes ?
Re: Cumulative effect question
Re: Revamping Secondary Characteristics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:52:29 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 06:12 PM 5/13/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Maybe if the Hero Guys decide to revive the Hero System Almanacs
>(something which I, for one, would be strongly in favor of), maybe the IC
>rules can appear in the first new one. :-]
I second the motion. All in favor? Motion carries.
Begin chant:
BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
(continue chant until hoarse)
At our next rally, we'll rewrite the lyrics to "Give Peace a Chance" and
"We Shall Overcome", turning them into pleas for HSA's and other products
we want.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:41:10 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Fifth Edition
For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing
and layout....
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:46:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999 SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
> that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
> Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing
> and layout....
Yahhhoooo!
Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 8:49:30 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
> that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
> Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing
> and layout....
Now back to your real job developing the DS9 book for LUG?
:)
DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:03:04 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 01:38 PM 5/14/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
>
>Yahhhoooo!
>
>Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
Well, according to last Tuesday's website update, he already has, and
it's available for purchase.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:04:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 09:41 AM 5/14/1999 EDT, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
>that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
>Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing
>and layout....
Yay! It looks like this *may* actually be available for GenCon....
I'm hoping TUV will be completed and ready to go at around the same time
(like, maybe, the book right after it?).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:08:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Yahhhoooo!
> >
> >Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
>
> Well, according to last Tuesday's website update, he already has, and
> it's available for purchase.
WHHHHHAAAAAAT!
He did tell me that!!!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:29:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > >Yahhhoooo!
> > >
> > >Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
> >
> > Well, according to last Tuesday's website update, he already has, and
> > it's available for purchase.
>
> WHHHHHAAAAAAT!
>
> He did tell me that!!!
I feel like a total idiot. I meant to say "He *never* told me that!"
Arrgghhhh...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:35:07 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
>I feel like a total idiot. I meant to say "He *never* told me that!"
You're just giddy because 5th Edition is finished. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
> >I feel like a total idiot. I meant to say "He *never* told me that!"
>
> You're just giddy because 5th Edition is finished. :)
That must be it...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:36:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: KAZEI 5!!!
I am very pleased to announce that:
KAZEI FIVE is Finished!
Kazei Five, Michael Surbrook's anime gentre/campaign book is finally
ready! K5 covers the cypberpunk/powered armor/psychic power end of the
anime spectrum, and is full of rules, campaign background, psychic powers,
powered armor suits, cyborbs, cyberwear, gear, cyberspace, and more. Kazei
<cybrobs? Hey! Bruce!>
Five is a Hero Games Electronic Book. It sells for $15.00, and the stock
number is HP015.
The book (in PDF format) can be ordered from Hero Games at
www.herogames.com.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 9:39:58 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: KAZEI 5!!!
> Kazei Five, Michael Surbrook's anime gentre/campaign book is finally
> ready! K5 covers the cypberpunk/powered armor/psychic power end of the
> anime spectrum, and is full of rules, campaign background, psychic powers,
> powered armor suits, cyborbs, cyberwear, gear, cyberspace, and more. Kazei
cyborb? "cybernetic orbital satellite"?
DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:46:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: KAZEI 5!!!
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Don McKinney wrote:
> > Kazei Five, Michael Surbrook's anime gentre/campaign book is finally
> > ready! K5 covers the cypberpunk/powered armor/psychic power end of the
> > anime spectrum, and is full of rules, campaign background, psychic powers,
> > powered armor suits, cyborbs, cyberwear, gear, cyberspace, and more. Kazei
>
> cyborb? "cybernetic orbital satellite"?
Blame Bruce, man, i didn't write that.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And
I am unsure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:52:24 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 11:36 PM 5/13/99 -0700, Chad Riley wrote:
>
>I still like AD&D for fantasy. I play Champions for everything else. I loved
>the concept of Palladium's Rifts, but in practice it was horrific. I couldn't
>convert Heroes Unlimited Characters to RIFTs without Completely rewriting
them
>and vice versa....its a shame too 'cause Palladium is so prolific in their
>suppliments. You can really pick and choose what you want to do and their
ideas
>are pretty cool. I'd hate to try and write a character generater for them as
>each book has dozens of OCC/PCC/RCC's yeesh.
>
I use Hero for just about everything. I wouldn't want to use anything less
flexible than Hero for a fantasy game, since I like my fantasy worlds to be
genuinely fantastic. I can certainly see the value in using another system
if it has an appealing world of its own to offer. But I really prefer
creating my own worlds. I aim to make my fantasy settings unfamiliar and
original. While I often start from folklore, I don't fall back on warmed
over Tolkien or D&D's mishmash of Tolkien, Vance, Lieber, etc.; to me, a
world revolving around elves, dwarves, "halflings", familiar-looking magic,
and clerics with healing magic misses out on the possibilities the fantasy
genre has to offer.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:21:07 -0400
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
Steve Long wrote:
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
> that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed
> 5th Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time
> for editing and layout....
Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
who's beating Seeker up on the cover....
- --
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:22:39 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
> Steve Long wrote:
> > For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
> > that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed
> > 5th Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time
> > for editing and layout....
>
> Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
> who's beating Seeker up on the cover....
All I know is SOMEONE better be beating up Seeker on the cover or I'm
not buying it. I know how to identify a GOOD HERO product when I see
it!
(ok, I'll buy it anyway - but I'll be somewhat reluctant...)
The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:25:25 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 12:21 PM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Steve Long wrote:
>> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
>> that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed
>> 5th Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time
>> for editing and layout....
>
> Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
>who's beating Seeker up on the cover....
Just as long it's multi-genre. Seeker should not dominate the cover.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:26:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Don McKinney wrote:
> > Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
> > who's beating Seeker up on the cover....
>
> All I know is SOMEONE better be beating up Seeker on the cover or I'm
> not buying it. I know how to identify a GOOD HERO product when I see
> it!
> The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
> ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating up on Seeker?
Hmm... has Grond gotten a cover yet?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Go-Go-Gadget Thermonuclear Device!"
William K. "Bushmaster" Bushway
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:52:54 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
>> Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
>> who's beating Seeker up on the cover....
>
>All I know is SOMEONE better be beating up Seeker on the cover or I'm
>not buying it. I know how to identify a GOOD HERO product when I see
>it!
>
>(ok, I'll buy it anyway - but I'll be somewhat reluctant...)
>
>The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
>ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
You know I must not be cool enough or something but I just don't 'get'
Foxbat. What IS the draw?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:00:16 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 12:15:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
smann@cnsvax.albany.edu writes:
<< Hey, would you know if artwork has been done yet? I'd like to know
who's beating Seeker up on the cover....>>
I have no idea if the art's been done, or what it's like. I'll leave
that one for Steve P. to field.
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:04:15 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
>Foxbat. What IS the draw?
He's loony. To run him properly, imagine Daffy Duck or Woody Woodpecker with
second-rate superpowers, but a first-rate ego and zeal.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:07:41 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
Chad Riley wrote:
> I still like AD&D for fantasy.
Yuch chad the magic system is so blechy, the montrous Hitpoint system
the basic assumption regarding relative ability level progression........
everything how could you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:06:42 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Fri, 14 May 1999, Don McKinney wrote:
> > The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
> > ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
>
> Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating up on Seeker?
>
> Hmm... has Grond gotten a cover yet?
I think Enemies 1, he's on the cover. For some reason, I think he may of been
on Champions 2 as well, but that might be the lack of coffee.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:26:27 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 12:07 PM 5/14/99 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>
>Chad Riley wrote:
>
>> I still like AD&D for fantasy.
>
>Yuch chad the magic system is so blechy, the montrous Hitpoint system
>the basic assumption regarding relative ability level progression........
>everything how could you.
>
It seems like everyone comes down on D&D's magic system. The magic system
is one of the things I like best about D&D. It's distinctive, it has an
interesting logic to it, and it is explicitly unlike modern
pseudo-rationalistic notions of psionic powers (which is why D&D has room
for its own psionics.) If D&D hadn't borrowed its ideas of magic from Jack
Vance's Dying Earth books, I might borrow them myself sometime for a campaign.
(Hit points and levels, however, I'm not defending. )
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:30:08 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 10:06 AM 5/14/99 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 14 May 1999, Don McKinney wrote:
>> > The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
>> > ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
>>
>> Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating up on Seeker?
>>
>> Hmm... has Grond gotten a cover yet?
>
>I think Enemies 1, he's on the cover. For some reason, I think he may of
been
>on Champions 2 as well, but that might be the lack of coffee.
>
I do believe there's an absence of coffee on Champions 2's cover, but I
don't think Grond is on it. As I recall it's a danger room setting with all
heroes - Marksman, Flare, etc. Grond is definitely on the Enemies cover.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:33:47 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
Stuart Axmaker wrote:
>
> > > Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating
> > > up on Seeker?
> > >
> > > Hmm... has Grond gotten a cover yet?
> >
> >I think Enemies 1, he's on the cover. For some reason, I think he
> >may of been on Champions 2 as well, but that might be the lack
> >of coffee.
>
> No, Enemies I had the unnamed helmet villian holding an unconscious
> female hero in his arms; Grond appeared with Oculon, Foxbat and one other
> villian on the cover of Enemies II. Extra credit for those who can name the
> four heroes on the wraparound back cover who were opposing them.
Going off memories now: Flare, Marksman, Goliath, & ???
Now I'm wondering what was on Champions II. I'm almost tempted to drive
home for lunch...
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KAZEI 5!!!
- --- Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> wrote:
> I am very pleased to announce that:
>
> KAZEI FIVE is Finished!
Congrats.
- -=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
- --- Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> wrote:
> Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating up on Seeker?
I vote for a couple of common other-genre archetypes (like some pansy elf and a
little gtreen spaceman) beating up Seeker, thus making it a multi-genre cover.
- -=>John Desmarais
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:19:48 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
>I vote for a couple of common other-genre archetypes (like some pansy elf
and a
>little gtreen spaceman) beating up Seeker, thus making it a multi-genre
cover.
And an anime mecha, a gadget-laden spy, and a monkeyman!
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:25:58 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 01:26 PM 5/14/99 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>At 12:07 PM 5/14/99 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>> Yuch chad the magic system is so blechy, the montrous Hitpoint system
>> the basic assumption regarding relative ability level progression ...
>> everything how could you.
>
> It seems like everyone comes down on D&D's magic system. The magic system
> is one of the things I like best about D&D. It's distinctive, it has an
> interesting logic to it, and it is explicitly unlike modern
> pseudo-rationalistic notions of psionic powers (which is why D&D has room
> for its own psionics.) If D&D hadn't borrowed its ideas of magic from
> Jack Vance's Dying Earth books, I might borrow them myself sometime for a
> campaign.
While the Vancian magic philosophy (spells as concrete units of stored
energy to be released at will) is an interesting idea, it DOES suck that
this is basically /hardcoded/ into the mechanics. This means it's a pain in
the rear to adapt the system to anything that *doesn't* use that philosophy
... which might not be so bad, except that category seems to include /all of
TSR's own campaign worlds/. Dragonlance novels seem to be using
GURPSish/TFTish magic; Forgotten Realms (at least, those few I've read)
books seem more like strict talents, or HERO Powers (learn "fireball", and
you can cast fireballs all day until you run out of components).
- --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:45:55 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
At 01:25 PM 5/14/99 -0500, Bryant Berggren wrote:
>At 01:26 PM 5/14/99 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>At 12:07 PM 5/14/99 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>>> Yuch chad the magic system is so blechy, the montrous Hitpoint system
>>> the basic assumption regarding relative ability level progression ...
>>> everything how could you.
>>
>> It seems like everyone comes down on D&D's magic system. The magic system
>> is one of the things I like best about D&D. It's distinctive, it has an
>> interesting logic to it, and it is explicitly unlike modern
>> pseudo-rationalistic notions of psionic powers (which is why D&D has room
>> for its own psionics.) If D&D hadn't borrowed its ideas of magic from
>> Jack Vance's Dying Earth books, I might [have] borrow[ed] them myself
sometime for a
>> campaign.
>
>While the Vancian magic philosophy (spells as concrete units of stored
>energy to be released at will) is an interesting idea, it DOES suck that
>this is basically /hardcoded/ into the mechanics. This means it's a pain in
>the rear to adapt the system to anything that *doesn't* use that philosophy
>... which might not be so bad, except that category seems to include /all of
>TSR's own campaign worlds/. Dragonlance novels seem to be using
>GURPSish/TFTish magic; Forgotten Realms (at least, those few I've read)
>books seem more like strict talents, or HERO Powers (learn "fireball", and
>you can cast fireballs all day until you run out of components).
>
I certainly agree that the "hardcoding" is a drawback; I consider it pretty
insignificant compared to the problems in the class and level system,
though. I'm surprised to hear that TSR's own worlds depart so drastically
from their core magic system. That seems pretty misguided to me.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:40:28 -0700
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 09:41 AM 5/14/99 EDT, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
>that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
>Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing
>and layout....
>
>Steve Long
This just begs the "yay" cheer, to whit:
Yay fifth! Yay edition! Yay yay fifth edition! Edition! Fifth! Fifth
edition yay!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:37:50 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 9:43:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SteveL1979@aol.com writes:
> For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know
> that, after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th
> Edition HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for
editing
> and layout....
>
congrats!!!!!!!!!! how are the lash marks healing?
andy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:39:32 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 10:07:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
> >Yahhhoooo!
> >
> >Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
>
> Well, according to last Tuesday's website update, he already has, and
> it's available for purchase.
as i recall... Chris Avellone didn't know when Asylum was finished and for
sale either... maybe they should start some kind of writer notification
protocols... :)
a
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:25 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 12:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dmckinne@itds.com writes:
> The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
> ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
D@MN SKIPPY! that cover would rule!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:45:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: 'Hero Points' in HERO
It occurred to me, after seeing a post mentioning 'Hero Points' on USENET,
that while HERO does not have an official system for handling this sort of
thing, the rules framework actually provides everything you might need to
actually create your own system of, well, 'HERO points'.
Consider: One Charge, Never Recovers has been seen as a -4 Limitation.
(Duck Champions, I think among others - used for a self-destruct charge).
5 points with a -4 limitation conveniently goes down to 1 point. This
potential HERO Point system would let you buy one-use powers at 1/5 the
normal cost at any time, provided you have unspent XP.
Obviously, the GM should approve any such expenditures - but certain
standards could be set up in advance, to allow quick judgement calls. For
example:
"I've got to make this shot or the city will be destroyed!"
1 unspent XP will get a +1 to a particular attack (5 AP, 1 RP) The amount
of points that could be spent on any particular attack would be dependent
on the campaign style, of course.
"If he hits me, I'm dead! Got to keep dodging!"
Similarly, 1 unspent XP can give you a +1 to DCV for a phase, with the
same restrictions as above.
"Can't...pass out...now...Must...keep going..."
1 point will get you 1d6 of Healing Aid - spend a few points to force
yourself back onto your feet to continue fighting. (Technically, you
could add 'self only' to this, but the additional limitation wouldn't save
any points unless you let the players spend more than 5 hero points on
healing at one time.)
"No! No! You can't be dead! Live, damn you! Live!"
Alternately, other people could be allowed to use unspent XP to help out a
wounded or dying comrade.
(These last two might need to be altered if Aid's cost has changed in
HERO-5.)
POWER STUNTS
This brings about another possibility for the simulation of Power Stunts.
This was one of the elements of Marvel Super Heroes that I really liked -
the ability to use your power in new and unusual ways.
Power Stunts don't necessarily have to have the 'never recovers'
limitation (if the character thinks it might ever be used again.) Other
limitations can easily be added, although I suggest a total of -4 to keep
the useful 5:1 ratio present.
Example: Dynamo wants to try to break up a fight without hurting the
participants - but his Energy Blast is not an ideal tool for doing so.
He'd like to use his beam ray to merely dazzle the combatants, blinding
them momentarily, but he doesn't have Flash. Fortunately, he /does/ have
unspent XP.
Dynamo decides on 2d6 of Flash - that should be enough. At 20 AP, he pays
4 RP. Since he'd like to do it in the future, the Ref decides to let him
take other limitations as opposed to 'charges never recover'. "We'll
discuss it after the game." Dynamo flashes one fighter and manages to
pull the other one off of him.
After the game, the GM and Dynamo's player discuss the options. Because
it's a new power, Dynamo decides that he can't do it very often, so 1
Charge (-2) and Costs End (-1/2) are added. Even when he tries it, it
doesn't always work, so Dynamo adds an Activation Cost. (It would be
Burnout, but he's only got one charge.) With earned XP, he plans to
eventually buy off the Activation and Charges.
POSSIBLE PROBLEMS
People with Multipowers can get off even cheaper - if Dynamo had one, he'd
have been able to pack a lot more Flash into a lot less point expenditure.
If the Ref is OK with that, though, no problem. It may lead to increased
use of Multipowers...
So...did I just reinvent the wheel? Has anyone else done things this way?
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:55:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
On Fri, 14 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> It occurred to me, after seeing a post mentioning 'Hero Points' on USENET,
> that while HERO does not have an official system for handling this sort of
> thing, the rules framework actually provides everything you might need to
> actually create your own system of, well, 'HERO points'.
>
> POWER STUNTS
There have been House Rules with things similar to this.
I know of at least two, one, having them refered to as special
magical points, the other as a standard superhero type thing.
Extra Lives (construct anyone?), is defined as a special one use
Luck.
As far as Power Stunts, I suggested something similar a long, long
time ago in a post (that wasn't to well received- but I still thought it
was a dandy idea).
I siggest you compose these and post them, as I've been passively
searching for these rules to assimilate in to my own House Rules.
Perhaps then, you could tweak and get feedback from the fine
individuals on this list.
- -Jason
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:45:23 PDT
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Fri, 14 May 1999 AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 5/14/99 12:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>dmckinne@itds.com writes:
>
> > The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his
> > ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker.
>
>D@MN SKIPPY! that cover would rule!
>
Personally, I'd buy a dozen.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:44:53 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 9:47:55 AM, susano@dedaana.otd.com writes:
<<Maybe Bruce will finish with Kazei 5 sometime soon, too...
>>
Actually, it's done. It should go up for sale next week.
- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:50:49 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
In a message dated 5/14/99 1:00:57 PM, SteveL1979@aol.com writes:
<< I have no idea if the art's been done, or what it's like. I'll leave
that one for Steve P. to field.
>>
The cover has not been done yet, but we're working on an abstract design.
This is the Hero System rule book, not Champions. The book is not specific to
a genre, and therefore the cover art will not be specific to a genre, either.
- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:07:54 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition (fwd)
> In a message dated 5/14/99 1:00:57 PM, SteveL1979@aol.com writes:
>
> << I have no idea if the art's been done, or what it's like. I'll leave
> that one for Steve P. to field.
> >>
>
> The cover has not been done yet, but we're working on an abstract design.
> This is the Hero System rule book, not Champions. The book is not specific to
> a genre, and therefore the cover art will not be specific to a genre, either.
Abstract? oooh... "For the first release of the new edition of the HERO
system, the Editors have chosen to test the Fates."
The release date for this isn't 5/5/2000 or anything, is it? When's
that planetary conjunction supposed to start?
Wait - how about Seeker being crushed under weight of multiple worlds,
each representing a different genre? That'd be abstract, while still
fulfilling the requirement of Seeker being beaten up.
DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:16:31 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
> You're just giddy because 5th Edition is finished. :)
>
> Geoff Speare
>
No, let's not get carried away. It isn't finished yet. It still has to be
edited.
BTW, the Hero System Glossary defines "Edit" as "To liberally sprinkle with
errors."
Just kidding...... I hope.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:46:03 PDT
From: "Jack Scarecrow" <themadharlequin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
The article:
A.R.P. : Alter Reality Points Optional Experience Rules for Hero System by
Keven Wiley can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7347/arp
These rules were based off of an original posting on the Fantasy HERO board
of the RPGWEB, in a posting called Spirit Points by Wolfram.
Also, the rules for Extra Lives was either in an old issue of AC or Dragon
Magazine.
Again, I would appreciate any assistance in tracking these items down.
- -Jason
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 99 16:36:19
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
On Tue, 4 May 1999 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Okay, I'm working on an idea for a creature that summon storms. The trick
>is, the more creatures you have, the more powerful the storm can be.
>So... obviously the storm itself is a mixture of Telekinesis and Change
>Environment (representing wind and rain), but how would I build the
>increased intensity effect?
>
>Do I buy the whole power and then apply a lim that you get so many active
>points per creature, or do I but a base amount of power and then add in an
>Aid (with a massive top end) that is used to pump up the power?
>
How about using a Cumulative Transform?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:31:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Off Topic = mail crashes ?
Has anybody else gotten incoming mail from the list that causes problems
with their mailer ?
Curt Hicks
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:44:58 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
>>Okay, I'm working on an idea for a creature that summon storms. The trick
>>is, the more creatures you have, the more powerful the storm can be.
>>So... obviously the storm itself is a mixture of Telekinesis and Change
>>Environment (representing wind and rain), but how would I build the
>>increased intensity effect?
>>
>>Do I buy the whole power and then apply a lim that you get so many active
>>points per creature, or do I but a base amount of power and then add in an
>>Aid (with a massive top end) that is used to pump up the power?
>
>How about using a Cumulative Transform?
How about using Summon? Pick some sort of house rule about how multiple
identical Summons combine, and then build the storm as a living thing...
maybe each doubling of the number of storm creatures gives the Storm
a +5 STR, double radius, +1 DC to its lightning bolts, etc.
Donald
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 99 23:55:22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Revamping Secondary Characteristics
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:58:39 -0500, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>I had a thought awhile back about secondarycharacteristics and how they're
>computed. Let me toss it out to everybody for some feedback. This has not
>been playtested.
>
>Currently, most secondary characteristics and character-based skills are
>computed based on a single characteristic (except, of course, for Recovery,
>Endurance, and Stun). What if we reworked that a little bit so that the
>other Secondary Charcateristics and the Characteristic-based skills were
>based off of more than one characteristic?
>
>PD=(STR+BODY)/5
>ED=(CON+BODY)/5
>SPD=((DEX/10)+(INT/5))/2 (INT doesn't contribute as much to SPD as DEX
>does, but it's a component)
No f***ing way! You forget that INT is 1/3 the cost of DEX.
>CHARACTERISTIC-BASED SKILLS
>SKILLS: Remains 9+INT/5
<snip>
For superhero games; for heroic games, I like 8+Stat/3
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:57 PM