Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 343
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 1:28 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #343
champ-l-digest Sunday, May 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 343
In this issue:
Re: The Magus
Re: Trigger
Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
First Characters (was Magus)
Re: Trigger
Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
Re: Cumulative effect question
Re: Trigger
Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
Re: Trigger
Re: Trigger
Re: Trigger
Re: First Characters
Re: Trigger was Alchemist
Queries
Persistent
Re: Persistent
Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
Re: First Characters (was Magus)
Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
Re: First Characters (was Magus)
Re: Trigger
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 00:10:20 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Magus
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
>Never got off the ground tho' But the Characters are fun to look at.
>
>Any of you guys look at old characters and either try to update them or
>use them in you campaigns?
My oldest 'set' of characters are, oddly enough, also based
in an interdimensional setting. It's basically a large
organisation of trans-dimensional mercenaries, who's
elite units are made up of superhumans from numerous
worlds. They turn up occasionally in my games, usually
when the pc's start mucking around with the timeline.
I'm planning to put them in uniform format
once hero5 comes out, though i might collate
my write-ups before then if i get a spare weekend.
I started her with the 4th edition, so i don't tend
to have converrsion problems.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:15:27 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trigger
In a message dated 5/15/99 12:12:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ctaylor@viser.net writes:
> OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the rules
> where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at the
> base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest (coupled
> with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
> Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems like you
> are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but seems
> awfully odd.
ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned on.
persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as normal.
so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
trigger.
once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:14:37 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
At 06:37 AM 5/15/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> As of recent, I've been coming up with many, many write-ups.
> In order to make organization a bit easier, I've decided on using
>a particular format to list character information.
[snip]
>SFX:
> The "special effect" of the character's powers (Innate Mutation,
> Learned Magical Abilities, Alien Physiology, Psionic and Psychokinetic,
> Special Training, Body Manipulation, etc.)
[snip]
> Any advice or suggestions on what you include orhow you go about
>character creation?
Other than calling the above-quoted category Origin Type (I think of SFX
as the manifestation of a Power), I can't think of any changes I'd
recommend. In fact, I think this looks great.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:04:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
At 02:45 PM 5/14/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
[condensed version]
>Consider: One Charge, Never Recovers has been seen as a -4 Limitation.
>
>"I've got to make this shot or the city will be destroyed!"
>
>"If he hits me, I'm dead! Got to keep dodging!"
>
>"Can't...pass out...now...Must...keep going..."
>
>"No! No! You can't be dead! Live, damn you! Live!"
>
>POWER STUNTS
>
>POSSIBLE PROBLEMS
>
>People with Multipowers can get off even cheaper - if Dynamo had one, he'd
>have been able to pack a lot more Flash into a lot less point expenditure.
>If the Ref is OK with that, though, no problem. It may lead to increased
>use of Multipowers...
I like this whole idea, though I don't think I'd worry too much about
the Multipower problem. Instant expenditure on new Multipower slots for
"power stunts" can be perfectly legit.
It's too late for this to go into HSR5, but I do think that it would
make a good article for a Hero System Almanac if those are revived (and
there does seem to be a good movement in favor of it).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:17:39 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 11:00 AM 5/14/1999 -0700, John Desmarais wrote:
>--- Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> wrote:
>> Hey, we could take a vote! Who do *you* want to see beating up on Seeker?
>
>I vote for a couple of common other-genre archetypes (like some pansy elf
and a
>little gtreen spaceman) beating up Seeker, thus making it a multi-genre
cover.
Gweenies. It's gotta be Gweenies. ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:44:09 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: 'Hero Points' in HERO
At 07:04 AM 5/15/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 02:45 PM 5/14/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>>
> [condensed version]
>>Consider: One Charge, Never Recovers has been seen as a -4 Limitation.
>>
>>"I've got to make this shot or the city will be destroyed!"
>>
>>"If he hits me, I'm dead! Got to keep dodging!"
>>
>>"Can't...pass out...now...Must...keep going..."
>>
>>"No! No! You can't be dead! Live, damn you! Live!"
SUPERBABES: The Femforce RPG allows characters to accept "bimbo points"
during play. Gotta make that shot or else? Fine, no need to roll, you
made it. Take a bimbo point. Periodically the GM makes a percentile roll
against your bimbo point total and if the roll equals your total or less,
you suffer a Bimbo Event (this is ususally embarrassing or annoying rather
than dangerous, and amounts to an Unluck roll).
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:03:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: First Characters (was Magus)
Come, come, now... let's all sit down and share stories about our
First Characters.
If we're talking first characters ever... I had a Spiderman
fetish since kindergarten. My first Clone hero was Web Line, a rather
garish Spidey type with green "venom" energy blasts.
In the second grade, I took a shot at originality. I has a number
of Power Suited heroes who lived in an under water complex created by an
Alien race to evolve certain creatures mixed with alien DNA to make a
sentient race. The aliens had long since abondoned the project, but it
didn't stop the team of four scientsists from messing with the "chambers."
One character wore a brown and black suit and has Superspeed and
Acidic powers (forgot his code name), another scientist wore a dark blue
and red costume and could control temperature of liquids and chemical
catylists, and the third, their leader, called Wavelenth (in red and
blue), could control the Electromagnetic spectrum.
Their first accident was a mutated rabbit that looked like a
creepy muscular gray alightly shorter than the average human who moved
through the service shafts and stole stuff to make equipment out of. The
other was a dolphin who was practically human.
After that phase ended, I started role playing, and thus the
heroes poured out, one after another.
My first HERO heroes were as follows:
A young actor (Christoper Bartel) with outrageous Luck (9d6) was
on a movie shoot during Halloween in New Mexico when a sandstorm (do they
have those in Mexico?) forced him into a cave, where he was witnessing a
ritual to kill a girl. He rushed to help her, and was half in/half out of
the circle when a spirit possessed him.
He could transform into a pink skinned white eyed silver maned
demon w/ a lion's tail looking thing called (drum roll) Samhain
Silvermane (later changed to Gegethesmane, for obvious reasons). Minor
flame manipulation powers, great STR (25!), some resistances, Extra Limbs,
all nicely packed into an EC: Demon Powers. (ack)
The second characetr was your basic friendly super-scientist
turned Vigilante with an every-Advantage EB gun. Unfortunately, the gun
ended up costing too much each and every time I rebuilt him. I changed
his name many times, and would probally settle on Hand Cannon now.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:11:45 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Trigger
>> OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the rules
>> where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at the
>> base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest (coupled
>> with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
>> Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems like
you
>> are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but seems
>> awfully odd.
>
>ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned on.
>persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
>
>triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as normal.
>so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
>trigger. once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
I like that thought, seems to work ok with me, but would that mean a
delayed power does the same thing? You can cast all your spells one day
and just keep them waiting through days of sleep and such til you cast them
again? Seems trigger is kinda cheap for that effect, but its a thought
anyway.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:53:00 EDT
From: WyldWsel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
In a message dated 5/15/99 6:38:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ravanos@NJCU.edu
writes:
<< Name:
The character's name.
Type:
The general type of character (Superhero, Hero, Neutral,
Vigilante, Criminal, Villain, Supervillain, etc.), and brief
description of character type (Brick, Speedster, Gadgeteer, etc.)
SFX:
The "special effect" of the character's powers (Innate Mutation,
Learned Magical Abilities, Alien Physiology, Psionic and
Psychokinetic,
Special Training, Body Manipulation, etc.)
Powers:
A description of the powers in laymen's terms.
Mechanics:
A description of possible mechanics.
Modus Operand:
Tactics, strategies, and a general profile of how the
character operates.
Morality:
What ideology the character fits in best in.
Depth:
A gauge of how well developed the character's personality and
motivations are.
(1) The character has lacks defining traits and
motivations.
(2) Fluid- The character has flexible traits and
motivations.
(3) Balanced- The character has a degree of distinctness
in regard to personality and motivation.
(4) The character is very distinct, and has clearly
defined motivations. The character has a history that is
somewhat flexible.
(5) Static- The character is distinct and greatly
motivated. The character's history is not flexible,
and is integral to the concept.
Realism:
What genre type the character is best suited for.
Seriousness:
What attitudes the character is best suited for.
I'm also trying to compile a larger bio and history sheet, with
possible motivations and other things (like quotes, personality tests,
moral questions, etc.) to try and "flesh out" a character.
Any advice or suggestions on what you include orhow you go about
character creation?
>>
I belive all of these things might be a good guide for anyone to use
before evean considering stats,powers,ect... I have seen a lot of "the
system dosent work" "its broken here or there" I find often , not always but
frequently, these complaints come from folks building heros then defining the
concept. I find if you stsrt with a well developed concept HERO will almost
always work well , build to concept not concept to what you built and it
works better than anything else I have run across. I belive some kind of
concept help section would benifit new players more than any other single
addition to the 5th ed . I think 2nd ed or somewhere around there had such a
sheet to fill out, its been a while scince I have seen the old books so I may
be off here.
First in last out
The Wild Weasel
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:30:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
On Sat, 15 May 1999 WyldWsel@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
> I belive all of these things might be a good guide for anyone to use
> before evean considering stats,powers,ect... I have seen a lot of "the
> system dosent work" "its broken here or there" I find often , not always but
> frequently, these complaints come from folks building heros then defining the
> concept. I find if you stsrt with a well developed concept HERO will almost
> always work well , build to concept not concept to what you built and it
> works better than anything else I have run across. I belive some kind of
> concept help section would benifit new players more than any other single
> addition to the 5th ed . I think 2nd ed or somewhere around there had such a
> sheet to fill out, its been a while scince I have seen the old books so I may
> be off here.
I hope to archive suggestions, "borrow" from other games, read up
on articles, and add my own infulence to flesh out characters.
I also want to locate various psychological and personality tests,
personal questionaries, and the like and attach them to this.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Epawtows <epawtows@acm.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Cumulative effect question
> On Tue, 4 May 1999 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> >Okay, I'm working on an idea for a creature that summon storms. The trick
> >is, the more creatures you have, the more powerful the storm can be.
> >So... obviously the storm itself is a mixture of Telekinesis and Change
> >Environment (representing wind and rain), but how would I build the
> >increased intensity effect?
Had a home-brewed advantage used occasionaly: +1/2, "Can combine
active points with someone elses's power" (you have to name the other
person). Needed GM permission, and was typicaly only used or
cases like identical twin superheros who had a combined attack
more powerful than anything either of them could do. If they
had different SFX, the SFX sometimes combined. Two characters
who had it were a rock-elemental type and a human-torch type,
their "combined" power was a lava blast. (Their father was a
Hawaiian Volcano God, his son was *supposed* to have volcanic
powers, but having twins messed things up).
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:50:41 -0700
From: "Ron Abitz" <abitz@richpoor.com>
Subject: Re: Trigger
> >ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned
on.
> >persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
> >
> >triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as
normal.
> >so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
> >trigger. once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
>
> I like that thought, seems to work ok with me, but would that mean a
> delayed power does the same thing? You can cast all your spells one day
> and just keep them waiting through days of sleep and such til you cast
them
> again? Seems trigger is kinda cheap for that effect, but its a thought
> anyway.
Trigger can only be set off by the defined triggering event. Where with
delayed Effect you can chose when to set it off and its what its target is
at that point. Trigger does have the advanage of the "caster" does not need
to be around when it goes off.
Ron Abitz
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:18:05 -0700
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Catagorizing Heroes (for creation purposes)
On Sat, 15 May 1999 12:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Jason Sullivan
<ravanos@NJCU.edu> writes:
> On Sat, 15 May 1999 WyldWsel@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I hope to archive suggestions, "borrow" from other games,
> read up
> on articles, and add my own infulence to flesh out characters.
>
> I also want to locate various psychological and personality
> tests,
> personal questionaries, and the like and attach them to this.
>
I have a kind of 20 questions sheet for the characters to help flesh out
who they are and where they came from, followed by a personal timeline.
But then I *have* to do that, for I use the character data when I'm
writing stories...
>
|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ] ghostwalker@ifr-inc.org
CO/4th Batt., The Horsemen, Black Horse Regiment
*---===( )===---*
Black Horse Webpage: http://www.ifr-inc.org/staffpages/tb.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 99 22:32:26
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trigger
On Fri, 14 May 1999 21:12:18 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>> It also
>>>means that if the alchemist passes out (you didnt buy persistent) the power
>>>shuts off, or if the alchemist dies it shuts off
>>
>>Nope, the Trigger Advantage obviates that.
>>
>> -- the potion becomes
>>>useless. In other words, its not really a potion in the usual sense at
>>>all, its a spell in the form of a potion. Independent cuts that off from
>>>the user totally, live, die, anything happens, the power still is ready to
>>>use.
>>
>>So does Trigger.
>
>OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the rules
>where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at the
>base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest (coupled
>with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
>Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems like you
>are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but seems
>awfully odd.
You're not getting Persistent for free - you have to pay the END up
front. Also, don't forget that the Trigger will activate when the
trigger conditions are met, not necessarily when you want it to.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 99 22:33:15
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trigger
On Sat, 15 May 1999 10:15:27 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/15/99 12:12:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>ctaylor@viser.net writes:
>
>> OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the rules
>> where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at the
>> base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest (coupled
>> with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
>> Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems like you
>> are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but seems
>> awfully odd.
>
>ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned on.
>persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
>
>triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as normal.
>so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
>trigger.
>once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
That's how I use Trigger.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 99 22:35:16
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trigger
On Sat, 15 May 1999 08:11:45 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>> OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the rules
>>> where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at the
>>> base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest (coupled
>>> with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
>>> Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems like
>you
>>> are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but seems
>>> awfully odd.
>>
>>ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned on.
>>persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
>>
>>triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as normal.
>>so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
>>trigger. once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
>
>I like that thought, seems to work ok with me, but would that mean a
>delayed power does the same thing? You can cast all your spells one day
>and just keep them waiting through days of sleep and such til you cast them
>again? Seems trigger is kinda cheap for that effect, but its a thought
>anyway.
Nope: if you want to have control of when the spell goes off, that's
Delayed Effect; with Trigger, you set the conditions, but *any
circumstance* which meets those conditions activates the spell.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:51:57 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: First Characters
> Come, come, now... let's all sit down and share stories about
>our First Characters.
When I was ten I attempted to write a story in which my best friends and
I got sper powers. I stole powers from the FF. Stretchy powers have
always been some of my favorites.
I also have a thing about Superman.
My first out and out super hero was a very, very minor clone of Miracle
Man, Using GURPS Supers rules. He was never played.
My first Champions character was an attempted Superman Clone. I am
surprised the GM let me play the thing. I screwed the math into the
ground, and some of the things he could do were simply unreal.
I rewrote Kalvin a number of times eventually making him comply with the
"jeramie-test" I mentioned earlier. He was killed by vampires, But I was
able to acquire an alternate universe verion of him and bring him into
play...
> The second characetr was your basic friendly super-scientist
>turned Vigilante with an every-Advantage EB gun. Unfortunately, the
>gun ended up costing too much each and every time I rebuilt him. I
>changed his name many times, and would probally settle on Hand Cannon
now.
My second character was a speedster framed around a bad stereo-typical
new york tough italian kid. Vitto Giarelli had SPD 10, DEX 30, running
of 19" per phase and a big, big gun.
And again I screwed the math into the ground. He had a VPP for various
guns, and the math became quite surreal. I also borrowed the idea of a
force-field-belt from another game and it really unbalanced things.
But the character although retired, still appears occasionally in the
game (again rewritten for Jeramie-test) and struts his stuff. Vitto and
his wife Tia, a Mentalist begot an entire extended family into our Omega
Squad game. New characters are still turning up.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 99 22:37:50
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trigger was Alchemist
On Mon, 10 May 1999 09:10:35 -0500, bobby farris wrote:
>The way I always understood Trigger is that you pay endurance for the
>power and do everything except actually have the power "go off". As part
>of the Trigger you declare an event that causes the power to "go off."
Yep.
>Someone has said that this doesn't make the power persistant. This might
>be. However, I would like to know then how you make a land mine? The
>only way you could do it is make it Independent?
Simple RKA with Trigger: Being stepped upon and No Range.
I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post: smart GMs mandate Extra
Time when using Trigger.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:09:58 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Queries
Two Questions:
First, how would you suggest building a Force Field that acts like a Force
Wall (as in a force field that is in a line, distant from the creator and
does not prevent passage. This would not collapse if the wall was
breached, and could be moved, the special effect in this case is actually a
'wall of winds' that swirls and deflects attacks).
Second, could we get an official word on Trigger from the Hero people? I
would like to see it resolved more or less.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:15:46 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Persistent
Am I alone in this, or does anyone else think that Persistent costs too
much? I don't really see it being equal in utility to Armor Piercing or 0
END cost, for example. It used to be a +1/4 advantage and it looks like
the only reason its a +1/2 now is that it makes 0 END cost/Persistent a
nice round +1 for most powers.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 19:29:32 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Persistent
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I don't really have a problem with the cost of persistent, especially =
when you consider that most of the time it can only be used on defensive =
powers such as Force Field, etc. Its main strength is to keep that =
Force Field, Flight, whatever, up when the player is unconscious, or if =
the player has also added usable by others and gave it to someone else. =
There's nothing worse than someone giving you a handy Force Field and =
then falling unconscious a few seconds later making it useless.
A lot of people try and use it for offensive powers, but continuous is =
the advantage for that. Now a continuous-persistent offensive power is =
something else entirely, not to mention VERY expensive.
Mitchel Santorineos
ICQ# 22259362
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 7:21 PM
Subject: Persistent
=20
=20
Am I alone in this, or does anyone else think that Persistent costs =
too
much? I don't really see it being equal in utility to Armor =
Piercing or 0
END cost, for example. It used to be a +1/4 advantage and it looks =
like
the only reason its a +1/2 now is that it makes 0 END =
cost/Persistent a
nice round +1 for most powers. =20
=20
=
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- -
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
=
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I don't really have a problem with =
the cost of=20
persistent, especially when you consider that most of the time it can =
only be=20
used on defensive powers such as Force Field, etc. Its main =
strength is to=20
keep that Force Field, Flight, whatever, up when the player is =
unconscious, or=20
if the player has also added usable by others and gave it to someone =
else. =20
There's nothing worse than someone giving you a handy Force Field and =
then=20
falling unconscious a few seconds later making it useless.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A lot of people try and use it for offensive powers, =
but=20
continuous is the advantage for that. Now a continuous-persistent=20
offensive power is something else entirely, not to mention VERY=20
expensive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>Mitchel Santorineos<BR>ICQ#=20
22259362</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Christopher Taylor <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ctaylor@viser.net">ctaylor@viser.net</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A> <<A =
=
href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A>><BR><B>D=
ate:=20
</B>Saturday, May 15, 1999 7:21 PM<BR><B>Subject:=20
</B>Persistent<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Am I alone in this, or does =
anyone else=20
think that Persistent costs too<BR>much? I don't really see it =
being=20
equal in utility to Armor Piercing or 0<BR>END cost, for =
example. It=20
used to be a +1/4 advantage and it looks like<BR>the only reason its =
a +1/2=20
now is that it makes 0 END cost/Persistent a<BR>nice round +1 for =
most=20
powers. =20
=
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Christus Corum=20
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Deo<BR>------------------------------------------------------------------=
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Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: SURGAT <RAVANOS@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistant powers non
Persistant?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:10:41 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
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>How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistent powers non
Persistent?
I assume you mean Continuous powers? People very often confuse =
Continuous and Persistent. Continuous means that it continues working, =
even when the character has no action. Ex. A Force Field protects =
someone, even on his non-action phases.
Persistent means that the power stays on, even when the character is =
unconscious or stunned. Ex. A Persistent Force Field will stay on when =
the character is stunned. All powers that use endurance, even if bought =
to 0 end will go off when a character is stunned. Buying persistent =
negates this problems.
The question is, why would you want to make a constant power instant? =
You don't want your Force Field to shut off every phase, do you? Or =
your Darkness to turn off at the end of each of your action phases?
If you do, then I would give your Constant power a -1/2 to -1 =
limitation, depending on the usefulness of the power. EX. A Force Field =
that shuts down at the end of each of your action phases is a big =
problem (-1). But if you have an 8 speed it doesn't effect you that =
often, only 4 non-action phases per turn (-1/2).
Mitchel Santorineos
ICQ# 22259362
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<DIV>>How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistent powers=20
non<BR>Persistent?<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I assume you mean Continuous powers? People =
very often=20
confuse Continuous and Persistent. Continuous means that it =
continues=20
working, even when the character has no action. Ex. A Force Field =
protects=20
someone, even on his non-action phases.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>Persistent </FONT>means that =
the power=20
stays on, even when the character is unconscious or stunned. Ex. A =
Persistent Force Field will stay on when the character is stunned. =
All=20
powers that use endurance, even if bought to 0 end will go off when a =
character=20
is stunned. Buying persistent negates this problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The question is, why would you want to make a =
constant power=20
instant? You don't want your Force Field to shut off every phase, =
do=20
you? Or your Darkness to turn off at the end of each of your =
action=20
phases?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If you do, then I would give your Constant power a =
- -1/2 to -1=20
limitation, depending on the usefulness of the power. EX. A Force =
Field=20
that shuts down at the end of each of your action phases is a big =
problem=20
(-1). But if you have an 8 speed it doesn't effect you that often, =
only 4=20
non-action phases per turn (-1/2).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>Mitchel Santorineos<BR>ICQ#=20
22259362</FONT></DIV>
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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:24:00 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)
> Come, come, now... let's all sit down and share stories about
our
>First Characters.
Halfway through college, one of the people in my AD&D group got hold of
the blue-box edition of Champions and decided to put together a campaign.
I don't remember where starting points were at, but there were no limits
on disads -- you could take as many as you wanted, and they were all at
full value. Kiai was a stunt actress with some martial arts ability,
mutated by a sonic blast (the only villian sourcebook we had was the
Deathstrike adventure), who gained superhuman combat abilities at the
expense of her hearing. Eventually I want to rewrite her according to
the rules, though I may wait for 5th edition. (I didn't mess with the
rules as badly as some of the other players, though. We had one guy who
had three different origins: one subset of his powers were techno, the
second he was born with, and I think his third power set came from
exposure to chemicals.) Needless to say, this game fell apart under its
own weight.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:04:44 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@actonline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
SURGAT wrote:
>
> How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistant powers non
> Persistant?
Do you really want to do this? Making your armour non-persistant can
be very dangerous. To answer your question, it would depend on what the
limitation is applied against. You get knocked out amd your IR vision
no longer works would be -0 as you cant see anyway and to turn it back
on would be a zero phase action. You get knocked out and your armour
doesn't work would be at least -1/2.
And now I remember that its not only getting knocked out but getting
stunned that will turn off non-persistant powers makes it even more
dangerous.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:17:20 EDT
From: Pat10355@aol.com
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)
My gaming group laid its hands on first-edition Champions in our sophomore
year in high school. I actually did not participate in the first campaign ...
I hadn't read any comic books in years, and wasn't that interested. Yes, the
truth comes out. :)
The first PCs, like Leah's, were all no point-limit jobs with maxed out
Disads to squeeze every possible point into the powers. The first batch
included:
The Moose: A brick with density increase and a 100 STR. Once he superleaped
across a reservoir, landing on the dam the heroes were trying to protect and
cracking it with his astronomical weight. Oops.
Midnight Cloud: A desolidifier. As I recall, he didn't turn out to have very
many useful powers.
The Badger: A Wolverine knockoff with 5d6 or 6d6 HKA and Tunneling. He really
got a chance to shine in the adventure in which a magic necklace animated a
pile of dirt in the basement of the hero team HQ.
My first PC came along later. I can't remember his name anymore, but he was a
cross between the Shadow and the Green Hornet. He was an investigator who
wore a trenchcoat and carried a high-tech blaster pistol.
Hey, I said I hadn't read many comics for awhile! :)
In his first adventure, my PC teamed up with a robot named Fission to stop a
madman who, believe or not, had threatened to blow up the moon with a big ray
gun on Alcatraz unless he was paid off. Rather than just wait for the moon to
go down, our heroes fought our way into his lab and busted up his big gun.
Patrick Sweeney
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:27:12 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trigger
In a message dated 5/15/99 11:12:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ctaylor@viser.net writes:
> >ok. here's a thought. trigger allows a power to be cast but not turned on.
> >persistant allows a power (once activated) to run without restarting it.
> >
> >triggers hang around until they are used. and then the power acts as
normal.
>
> >so, the potions (since they are not in use in the bottle) should be on a
> >trigger. once consumed (trigger activated) they act as a normal power.
>
> I like that thought, seems to work ok with me, but would that mean a
> delayed power does the same thing? You can cast all your spells one day
> and just keep them waiting through days of sleep and such til you cast them
> again? Seems trigger is kinda cheap for that effect, but its a thought
> anyway.
>
trigger and delayed effect are similar but... trigger is more for (but not
limited to) making trip wires and such as that. delayed effect is more for
fantasy games where casting something can be time consuming and tiring. the
delayed effect advantage allows those kinds of spells to be cast in advance.
i also think that delayed effect is only for games where a "stack your rack"
rule is in place (active powers = INT/5). triggered powers do not count
against the "rack".
andy
------------------------------
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