Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 347
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 10:54 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #347
champ-l-digest Monday, May 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 347
In this issue:
Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Asian Elements (was Elements)
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: Is this legal?
Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Yaen Bousou-Saru, Wild Running Monkey power construct
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Yaen Bousou-Saru, Wild Running Monkey power construct
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
An experiment (was Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat))
Magic systems
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Danger Sense Q
CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Re: NCM Move By/Through
Re: Danger Sense Q
Conversions
Re: Magic Systems (Was Re: The Hero system)
Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:14:41 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>That is about what I think the police would have by early morning,
>when Mr. Smith will start asking to be released. He has no ties to the
>District of Columbia and is quite clear that he intends to leave the
>jurisdiction within a day. I know what I think the police would do,
>but ask where you think they would go from here?
>
><------------------------------------------------------->
>Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
The Cops from our Vista City campaign (heroic, PC police deal with odd
unusual, nmad science/supernatural threats) would dredge the canal for
the truck (too much information there.) Run a paper tail on the house.
Who owns it? For how long? How was it paid for etc? Ask the Insurance
Company nicely. The insurance company doesn't *have* to give out any
information to the police, but may not know this or may elect to share
information of their own free will. Has the professor ever filed
insurance claims before? Priority ONE identify those bodies! Send them
round to the medical examiner's office. take dental and finger print
records. DNA samples too. Once those are in, compare them to the NCIC,
and the pentagons Identifaction lab, (I forget where that is. You'd have
to ask thjem nicely to compare your results to their records, they have
no obligation to help. but they might on the off chance that JD#1 and
JD#2 are ex-military people who need to be indentified...) Have a
forensic team go over the house with a fine tooth comb. It looks like
some one was using it for some sort of hide out. If so they spent a long
time there. People who spend long times in places tend to leave finger
prints in the oddest places.
Impound the professor's car. After all it's evidence in an extremely odd
attempted murder case. Get complete ballistics and forensics data from
the bullets stillmin the car. If the forensics team finds anything else
worth following up on, well...
Either get the ruins of the truck out of the Canal or try to enhance the
patrolman's dash video enought to get a Liscense plate on the Truck.
Begin to back track that one through the dept of Motor vehicles (whatever
the name of the institution is) who owned it? where is that person now?
Although frightening from a privacy perspective, our moder bureaucratic
age is a boon for PC and NPC investigators. If you know the right
questions to ask, you'll find that people leave huge, great trails
through their lives.
A lot of the questions I ask are time and money intensive. NPC
investigators may actually be told to lay off for budgetary reasons.
In our game people "in the know" that odd stuff is happening tend to
either be recruited or cultivated as allies...
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:07:02 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?
>In our game these huge NCM move bys bcame a self correcting problem.
>Anyone who could do them tended to wiped themselves out pretty
>thoroughly.
True, it tends to balance when used in character vs. character situations,
which is probably why it's never been fixed.
On the other hand, once you start getting involved in non-character objects
(structures, vehicles, etc.), things start getting silly. Try figuring how
much damage a fighter jet would do if it slammed into the earth...
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:13:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?
On Mon, 17 May 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
> >In our game these huge NCM move bys bcame a self correcting problem.
> >Anyone who could do them tended to wiped themselves out pretty
> >thoroughly.
>
> True, it tends to balance when used in character vs. character situations,
> which is probably why it's never been fixed.
>
> On the other hand, once you start getting involved in non-character objects
> (structures, vehicles, etc.), things start getting silly. Try figuring how
> much damage a fighter jet would do if it slammed into the earth...
I guess you could institute the DEF+BODY rules for that as well. (Can't do
more dice than the DEF+BODY of an object) That would stop jet planes from
blowing holes through the earth, even if you did use the 80 BODY figure...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:44:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
At 11:31 PM 5/16/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>> The cover has not been done yet, but we're working on an abstract
>design.
>>> This is the Hero System rule book, not Champions.
>>
How about going with this.
Take Seeker, the Harbinger of Justice and the Golden Avenger and
place them all
with their backs to one another. Have them be ing a urban setting and have
them surrounded by C.L.O.W.N. I think that it might be interesting.
Visit us at http://www.avalon.net/~brat-inc/ ....
"In the words of Socrates... I drank what?" ... Real Genius
------------------------------
Date: 17 May 1999 16:59:40 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Asian Elements (was Elements)
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* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Mon, 17 May 1999
| Japan is very similar, but thay also had 'void' (I think).
Void is emptiness, a distinct lack of physical things. Japanese alchemy
uses the same elements as Chinese.
| If you are working mainly with Chinese / Japanese myth (of which the
| latter steals a great deal from the former over time), you might want to
| consider foxes as well. Fox spirits caused a great deal of trouble in
| both Japan and China.
And kappa.
| Dragons are identified with water, and live in lakes (or the sea). They
| don't 'steal' water, although they might hoard it. Supposedly, tigers and
| dragons don't get along.
That is correct.
| Demon is very genric, BTW. In Japan, that might be 'oni'.
There are many, many types of demons. Oni (ogre) is but one type.
| Ghosts are common in both countires, with the most common name for ghost
| in Japan being a 'Yurei'. There is a 'ghost' that steals your breath in
| Japan (it is supposed to be the ghost of a drowned child) that is probably
| a manifestation of the 'old hag syndrome'.
There are a variety of 'monsters' of this sort in Chinese and Japanese
myth: the kyuketsuki which consume blood, the baku which consume dreams...
there is a monster of this sort for almost any aspect of human life you can
distinguish from another.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:04:37 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
Brats Incorporated wrote:
> How about going with this.
> Take Seeker, the Harbinger of Justice and the Golden Avenger and
> place them all
> with their backs to one another. Have them be ing a urban setting and have
> them surrounded by C.L.O.W.N. I think that it might be interesting.
Better yet! A cover displaying a big box with the corpses of C.L.O.W.N in
it, and Foxbat passed out from shick on the floor, with a visible emblem signed
by the Harbinger Of Justice.
(In case it wasn't very clear before: I hate C.L.O.W.N. to the Nth degree.
I think they were one of the worst ever ideas Hero ever published. I don't use
them, I won't use them. And if I never see them again, it will be too soon!)
Sponsored by the commitee to change Genocide's crusade against mutants to a
crusade against C.L.O.W.N. (Though I am betting most heroes would be
sympathetic to Genocide if that ever happened...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:09:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition
On Mon, 17 May 1999, Brats Incorporated wrote:
> At 11:31 PM 5/16/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >>> The cover has not been done yet, but we're working on an abstract
> >design.
> >>> This is the Hero System rule book, not Champions.
> >>
>
> How about going with this.
> Take Seeker, the Harbinger of Justice and the Golden Avenger and
> place them all
> with their backs to one another. Have them be ing a urban setting and have
> them surrounded by C.L.O.W.N. I think that it might be interesting.
I think the point was that having just a superhero cover wouldn't give the
right impression - it's HERO 5th, not Champions, so it's a generic RPG,
not a Superhero one. Now, if you had Seeker, a robed & bearded wizard
carrying a staff (with a knob ont he end), a gunslinger and a 1920's-type
G-man fighting their way through a horde of Nazi space ninja pirates -
/that/ might imply multi-genre...
On a different issue, I'm not sure an abstract cover would attract new
fans, though - maybe if it were unusual enough to stand out on the store
shelves...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Is this legal?
>
>>In our game these huge NCM move bys bcame a self correcting problem.
>>Anyone who could do them tended to wiped themselves out pretty
>>thoroughly.
>
>True, it tends to balance when used in character vs. character situations,
>which is probably why it's never been fixed.
>
>On the other hand, once you start getting involved in non-character objects
>(structures, vehicles, etc.), things start getting silly. Try figuring how
>much damage a fighter jet would do if it slammed into the earth...
As long as you use the maximum object damage rule as is applied with
throwing, it's not too bad, though still a bit larger than it should be.
After all, the sum of defense and Body of most vehicles tops out around 20.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Just curious about something...
Campagins often have write ups for characters that run the gamut
of deadly serious to very light and jovial. Often times, they're assumed
to "cohabitate" the same universe, despite that fact that their genres
clash quite a bit.
Case and point: Harbringer of Justice and Foxbat.
Vigilante and Loon. Deadly Serious and Very Wacky.
Would you:
a) Adjust both characters to better fit in your campagin.
b) Make HoJ or FB more 'serious' or 'lighter' to accomidate
the more central character.
c) Keep them the way they are.
...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
Would they clash? What would each do to the other? Who would win
if they did clash?
...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
On Mon, 17 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> Case and point: Harbringer of Justice and Foxbat.
> Vigilante and Loon. Deadly Serious and Very Wacky.
>
> Would you:
> a) Adjust both characters to better fit in your campagin.
I don't use either. I might use Foxbat, but not HoJ.
> b) Make HoJ or FB more 'serious' or 'lighter' to accomidate
> the more central character.
You can make Foxbat more serious, I don't think you can help the
Harbringer of Bullets.
> c) Keep them the way they are.
Maybe.
> ...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
> Would they clash? What would each do to the other? Who would win
> if they did clash?
HoJ would kill Foxbat. End of story.
The thing is, the two may be inthe same univese, but they shouldn't be
in the same campaign. I mean, Ambush Bug doesn't run into Batman, now
does he?
> ...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
Easy. GM's fiat.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Yaen Bousou-Saru, Wild Running Monkey power construct
Would you allow this ability for a Martial Artist chatracter who is
particularily good at dodging attacks after fighting with an opponent?
PD vs. Martial Attacks, Only up to ammount rolled on Absorbition
(-1/2)
9d6 Absorbtion: Martial Attacks (Goes into DCV), Not vs. Suprise,
Invisible, or "tracking" attacks (-1/4), Must have room to move and free
movement with all limbs (-1/4)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
> Case and point: Harbringer of Justice and Foxbat.
> Vigilante and Loon. Deadly Serious and Very Wacky.
>
> Would you:
> a) Adjust both characters to better fit in your campagin.
> b) Make HoJ or FB more 'serious' or 'lighter' to accomidate
> the more central character.
> c) Keep them the way they are.
>
> ...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
> Would they clash? What would each do to the other? Who would win
>if they did clash?
> ...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
>
I don't think there's any intrinsic assumption clash in having them exist in
the same campaign _world_, though I don't think they'd be appropriate for
the same campaign within that world, if you understand the difference.
Foxbat is just a loon who happens to be a reasonably competent criminal
super when he doesn't get distracted by his latest loopy idea. Harbinger is
an extremely capable vigilante with a very bloodthirsty attitude toward
criminals.
My own suspicion is if they happened to operate in the same area (which
strikes me as unlikely given their personalities) that Harbinger would for
the most part ignore Foxbat. He's got much nastier and bigger fish he's
interested in frying. If they actually crossed, I suspect he'd at least
hurt Foxbat bad, but I doubt he'd go out of his way to kill him. This is,
after all, a villain who uses gas rounds and punches people most of the
time. Even Harbinger isn't so far gone that he thinks that would mandate death.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
- --- Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu> wrote:
>
> ...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
> Would they clash? What would each do to the other? Who would win
> if they did clash?
> ...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
Personally, I would probably NOT use Foxbat in a Dark Champions game (which is
where you would expect to find HoJ) - if I did, I would be tempted to Joker-ize
him (i.e. He'd become lie Batman villain, a silly goofball who kills people
with his "antics").
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:31:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
> The thing is, the two may be inthe same univese, but they
shouldn't be
> in the same campaign. I mean, Ambush Bug doesn't run into Batman, now
> does he?
Funny how that works... I never liked that about comics.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Yaen Bousou-Saru, Wild Running Monkey power construct
>
>Would you allow this ability for a Martial Artist chatracter who is
>particularily good at dodging attacks after fighting with an opponent?
>
> PD vs. Martial Attacks, Only up to ammount rolled on Absorbition
>(-1/2)
>
> 9d6 Absorbtion: Martial Attacks (Goes into DCV), Not vs. Suprise,
>Invisible, or "tracking" attacks (-1/4), Must have room to move and free
>movement with all limbs (-1/4)
>
I think I'd just have him buy DCV levels only useable after X phases
fighting with a given opponent, personally.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:39:56 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
Umm, http://web.ndak.net/~theala/stick.html
It also has commentary about near-noncombat movethroughs (known in
one group I was in as "doing a Linedrive"), and the *marvelous* piece
entitled "Alicia vs Ignoth".
(Theala's site is great...)
Donald
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:41:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: An experiment (was Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat))
Anyone on the list want to help me with an experiment dealing with
fundamental Archtypical characters in regards to scenerios?
I'd like to see individuals take up certain character
"Philosophies," like Vigilante, Dark Justice Seeker, Crazy Blood Lusting
Feral, Super Patroit, Golden Age Moral Super, Sanctioned Law Abiding
Moderate, etc. The individual characters would then have to respond to
various similar scenerios where they would play out their archetype (with
appropiate Psychological Limitations, backgrounds, etc.), and discuss the
results with other individuals afterwards.
Something like a PBEM, but more limited in scope (one encounter),
and with a discussion afterwards.
Feedback?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:53:42 EDT
From: MWStrong@aol.com
Subject: Magic systems
Have any of you D&D players seen or read the suppliment "Players Options:
Spells and Magic"? They offer alternitive magic systems like a spell point
system with a few options, and different "sources" of power like preserver /
defiler, shamanism and alienists. They also offer the "channeling" rule.
This system (how we use it in half of our campaigns) says that a wizard knows
how the magic works, does not forget it, and that (s)he just channels the
magic energy through the user like a lens. Forcing so much power through the
body required the mage to roll on a table (based on the spell level and
caster level) to see if the caster coughs up a lung. The mage can cast any
spell in the spell book but must spend a certian amount of time in the
morning "cramming" reviewing all of thier spells instead of memorizing
specific ones.
It really is a good book.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:54:33 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
At 09:15 PM 5/17/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
>
>The thing is, the two may be inthe same univese, but they shouldn't be
>in the same campaign. I mean, Ambush Bug doesn't run into Batman, now
>does he?
Actually, the two did meet, once. ("Nine letters, two words, 'Nusiance
one cannot be rid of.'" *POP* "Hi, Bats!")
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:02:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
At 05:17 PM 5/17/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Just curious about something...
>
> Campagins often have write ups for characters that run the gamut
>of deadly serious to very light and jovial. Often times, they're assumed
>to "cohabitate" the same universe, despite that fact that their genres
>clash quite a bit.
>
> Case and point: Harbringer of Justice and Foxbat.
> Vigilante and Loon. Deadly Serious and Very Wacky.
>
> Would you:
> a) Adjust both characters to better fit in your campagin.
> b) Make HoJ or FB more 'serious' or 'lighter' to accomidate
> the more central character.
> c) Keep them the way they are.
I'd take C. For me, that kind of contrast is not only interesting, but
a necessary element in worlds I run.
> ...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
> Would they clash? What would each do to the other? Who would win
>if they did clash?
> ...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
Chances are, even though I'd keep them in the same world, I'd never use
them in the same scenario, or even the same campaign storyline. In other
words, if I used either one of them, it's very likely that I'd use only one
in the actual gaming, and let the other one be background.
Similarly, HoJ is so caught-up in dealing with street crime and the
really dangerous stuff that he'd leave a mostly-harmless loon like Foxbat
for the police and four-color types to handle.
If the two ever met, the result is an easy call: Foxbat would die, and
so would his gang if they're present.
Putting Seeker in the middle of it is also an easy call -- just decide
that he'll be there, and he will. In a comic book world, it's easy enough
for him to "just happen" on the scene.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:56:56 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Campagin Styles (Harbringer of Justice vs. Foxbat)
At 05:17 PM 5/17/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Case and point: Harbringer of Justice and Foxbat.
> Vigilante and Loon. Deadly Serious and Very Wacky.
>
> Would you:
> a) Adjust both characters to better fit in your campagin.
> b) Make HoJ or FB more 'serious' or 'lighter' to accomidate
> the more central character.
> c) Keep them the way they are.
Leave the Hoj as is. I'm *really* unlikely to use Foxbat, but if I did I'd
keep him as is.
>
> ...let us extend this. HoJ and FB are in the same city.
No problem. It's a big city.
> Would they clash?
No. I'd run HoJ as a nocturnal animal, while Foxbat up to no good during
the day. Foxbat would also limit his operations to the safer parts of
town. They two would never meet.
>What would each do to the other?
Foxbat would wet his pants. The Harbinger would glare and walk off...not
worth the bullets.
> ...and how can we put Seeker in the middle of the carnage?
Well, first you have to take the position that Seeker exists, and I don't
subscribe to that viewpoint in my campaign. :)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:07:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Danger Sense Q
What limitation would you goodly folks give 'Danger Sense: only to detect
Danger to <specific person>'? The particular effect I'm looking for is
for a sort of magical bodyguard, who will always know if the person
they're attuned to protect is in danger - but the sense doesn't help them
at all (unless they're in danger from the same thing as the protectee)
The construct I was thinking of:
Danger Sense, mystical level (20), 14- (6), any area (15), only detects
danger to <specific person> (-?)
I'm wavering on the cost, because although it will remove a significant
amount of utility from the power, the character and his protectee are
likely to be near to each other much of the time, and any 'general danger'
that would hit the protected would also get the protector.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:15:57 -0400
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Darrin Kelley wrote:
> (In case it wasn't very clear before: I hate C.L.O.W.N. to the Nth degree.
Hey! I *like* C.L.O.W.N.! I've only ever used them once, but they
were a blast!
The characters: a Wolverine-clone, a Mr. Fantastic-clone, a Ghost
Rider-clone, and an NPC mage.
The situtation: the PCs are guarding an auction. CLOWN wants one of
the items. Snapshot is sitting in the front row pretending to be a news
photog, with Marbles, Toe-Tapper and Dot as backup. Tag is waiting
outside, and Buford is in Tee-Hee a couple of blocks away.
Dot starts the attack with a Flash, blinding the PCs. CLOWN starts
for the door with their prize. Mr Fantastic and Ghost Rider slip and
fall on Marbles' marbles, and Wolverine gets whacked by Toe-Tapper's
cane and starts dancing uncontrollably. The mage falls on the marbles
and knocks himself out.
Mr Fantastic and Ghost Rider finally make it to the door just ahead
of CLOWN. Mr Fantastic stretches himself to block the door, Ghost Rider
stands behind him (outside the door) and braces him. Marbles calmly
walks up to them, smiles at Mr Fantastic, reaches around him, gently
taps Ghost Rider and yells "TAG YOU'RE IT!", then steps back.
Tag pops up from where he's been hiding, and whallops Ghost Rider
in the back. Ghost Rider slams into Mr Fantastic, Fantastic stretches
(still trying to block the door), slams into the opposite wall, and then
rebounds back into Ghost Rider. Both are now unconscious, Fantastic
lying stretched out like a worn rubber band atop Ghost Rider.
Fantastic's head is perched precariously on the seat of a nearby
motorcycle.
Back inside, Wolverine is still dance, and becoming more and more
berserk as Toe-Tapper keeps whacking him with that cane. I'll also note
that the *player* is becoming incredibly frustrated. Wolverine can't hit
Toe-Tapper, and Toe-Tapper is dancing circles around Wolverine.
Toe-Tapper finally runs out to make his getaway.
Once Wolverine stops dancing, he runs (screaming) after Toe-Tapper.
Reaching the outside (stomping on the bodies of his unconscious team
mates), he sees CLOWN making their getaway in Tee-Hee. Howling in
frustration, he jumps up on the motorcycle seat (flattening Mr
Fantastic's head) and leaps for Tee-Hee.
Landing on the roof, he punches his claws through the roof and
starts slashing his way in. Tag keeps punching his claws back out of the
roof, further enraging Wolverine (and the player). Then...Tee-Hee runs
up the side of a tall building to shake Wolverine loose. Wolverine tries
to hold on, but Tag punches him loose, 15 stories off the ground.
Not wanting to kill the berserk hero, Snapshot takes his picture,
transforming him into a photograph. The next thing Wolverine knows, he's
standing knee-deep in developing fluid, with all the members of CLOWN
standing around him. CLOWN figures on calming Wolverine down,
congratulating him on his attempt to stop them, and treating him to
dinner. Wolverine, still berserk, screams and leaps. April Foolmaker
mind controls him into unconsciousness.
A couple of hours later, a nondescript van pulls into Times Square
and pauses at an intersection. The back doors open and a figure drops
out before the van speeds away. Left behind is an unconscious Wolverine;
he's wearing a frilly calico sundress and glass slippers, a lacy bonnet
with a blonde wig, rouge, lipstick, mascara, a corset and padded bra,
and several yards of super-adhesive Red Tape (wrapped especially tightly
around all his hairy parts). Overlaying all this is a sign hung around
Wolverine's neck that reads: "SORE LOSER"
The PCs get a call from the cops. It seems that when Wolverine woke
up, he was still berserk, and the cops didn't wanna unwrap him from the
Red Tape. So the PCs had to go down to the police station, subdue a
berserk Wolverine (the player kept flubbing his EGO rolls), and pull the
really sticky Red Tape off his hairy parts (and Wolverine is hairy all
over)! They had to do all this without trashing the police station, and
with the cops laughing their asses off outside the room!
Eventually Wolverine calmed down to where he only growled loudly
when somebody mentioned CLOWN, and he only got slighly hysterical when
he smelled developing fluid....
- --
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:52:21 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: NCM Move By/Through
>>That is why I used Move By as an example. It's only -2 to OCV. In
>>your example using a character with a low average DEX of 18 and
>>no Skill Levels he would have a final OCV of 2. Assuming the target
>>DCV is also 6, you need a 7 or less to hit, but it can be done. Now,
>>toss in some Skill Levels and the odds start to even out.
>
>True. But what about the DCV mods for speed? Throw thos in and
>things un-even again.
I assume you mean the _optional_ velocity DCV table? This would help the
guy moving at high speed to have a better DCV, but it doesn't make things
uneven. It has no effect on the DCV of the target. Not unless your using a
house varient of an optional rule.
>>As I wrote, this is an extreme example. For a more realistic one,
>>use the running instead of flight, as there is no Turn Mode to deal
>> with.
>
>Oh, no, no, no. High speed running almost demands a turn mode. Other
>wise the character would have ankles, knees and hips as powerful as the
>strongest bricks and then more.
While an individual GM might require this, neither the game nor system do!!
These are comic book Superheroes we are writing about not reality! :-)
For the record though, I'm one of the GM's who probably would reqire it, as
I like things a little more "real-world."
Keep in mind that in my original note, I was simply pointing out that high
speeds for flight and running _can_ have an impact in combat. That was all
I was trying to do.
~ Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:07:35 PDT
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Danger Sense Q
On Mon, 17 May 1999 "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> wrote:
>The construct I was thinking of:
>
>Danger Sense, mystical level (20), 14- (6), any area (15), only detects
>danger to <specific person> (-?)
>
>I'm wavering on the cost, because although it will remove a significant
>amount of utility from the power, the character and his protectee are
>likely to be near to each other much of the time, and any 'general danger'
>that would hit the protected would also get the protector.
I suppose it's really a question of who has the power. If the protector is
a PC, then it's a relatively large limitation, in that he's going to develop
goals in addition to his role as protector. That'd be worth something in
the -1/2 range, maybe more if he doesn't have any overriding psych lims
regarding the protectee. If the character is an NPC Follower/DNPC or
something like that, then his only campaign function is likely to act as a
protector, and it's worth -1/4 at most.
That's how I'd do it, anyway.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:17:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Conversions
Would anyone here be willing to help me convert a very short and
mirthful AD&D adventure to Fantasy HERO?
Please contact me, as I do not have any Fantasy HERO books, and I
would find Magic Use troublesome.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:07:08 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Magic Systems (Was Re: The Hero system)
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> At 12:39 AM 5/15/99 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
> >
> >
> >Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> [snip]
> >>
> >> It seems like everyone comes down on D&D's magic system. The magic system
> >> is one of the things I like best about D&D.
> >
> >pfah... sure cast and forget it, mindless pish posh
> >
> >> It's distinctive, it has an
> >> interesting logic to it,
> >
> >no logic whatsoever... waving your hands actually does the magic?
> >sure confusing the ritual
> >
> >> and it is explicitly unlike modern
> >> pseudo-rationalistic notions of psionic powers
> >
> >Every mage... in every fantasy and every one in the real world who ever
> claimed to
> >be mages, the mage emphasizes the mental and the spiritual aspect of what is
> >done... DND turned it into the ritual does the
> >magic and you just cant remember how you did it that is so gauche and so
> wrong
> >
>
> I think you're overgeneralizing here.
> Lots of magic systems depend more on
> ritual than on understanding, including many folkloric understandings of magic.
> Gestures don't do magic? How about knocking on wood, keeping your fingers
> crossed, or tossing salt over your shoulder? Magic words often have power in
> themselves as well.
No thats just how non practicioners percieve the situation
> The Xanth books are full of magic with very
> little mental or spiritual understanding involved.
Anyone using Xanth as a model for their magic is shooting for humor not magick
> Faust got his abilities
> by following a summoning ritual, then getting everything else from
> Mephistopheles.
Over looking the spiritual corruption and insanity that channelling nastiness
gets you, turns diabolism into silliness.
> Zatara and Zatanna cast spells by saying words backwards.
That is just their personal foci for doing something, thinking that is all
and I suppose if anyone in their world talked backwards magic would happen
that is so funny.
> Not all magic is like using the Force. In some systems, all magic derives
> from spirits, gods, or magical beings.
The force is a lot like in functionality the most notable power you can gain from
deities spirits etc.... the other is a question of them doing the magic not you,
and
in that case.. they still require an appropriate mental state in those they deal
with
and it requires that mental state to contact them... etc.
> Some magic depends on altered
> perceptions (e.g. Zelazny's Changeling & Madwand).
ah drugs or what do you mean? more details please, ofcourse perceptions
usually imply the mental state and this is in keeping with my argument
not in conflict with it.
> In other systems, the
> power resides exclusively in ritual;
I doubt it
> knowing the right names, right
> inscriptions, right materials, and right procedures is what's important,
> not understanding their nature.
from the ignorant outsiders point of view I'm sure this seems true ;)
actually I'm a purely unbeliever but... read P. I. E. Bonewitz's
Authentic Thaumateurgy.... I'm not particularly fond of his game
mechanic ideas, but his magical theory is the closest thing you
can get to the "R word" for magick ;)
> >> If D&D hadn't borrowed its ideas of magic from Jack
> >> Vance's Dying Earth books, I might borrow them myself sometime for a
> campaign.
>
> > strict using of Vances writings might result in an interesting campaign
>
> I think so, too. And D&D certainly does take some liberties in borrowing
> from Vance. I do think it captures some of the interesting aspects of
> Vancian magic, though.
>
> - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
The problem with CLOWN is only the GM thinks everything is funny. Myself,
I'd hate to be made an idiot of in a game. Especially considering how
CLOWN seems virtually untouchable in many ways. I mean, where's the fun
in that?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Suppose you were an idiot...And suppose you were a member of
Congress...But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:42:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
On Mon, 17 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> The problem with CLOWN is only the GM thinks everything is funny. Myself,
> I'd hate to be made an idiot of in a game. Especially considering how
> CLOWN seems virtually untouchable in many ways. I mean, where's the fun
> in that?
Perhaps the fun could come in trying to figure out how to
circumvent their "untouchableness." It's a good lesson... even Bricks
need to think sometimes.
It might also give more intellectual characters, or characters
that are more conceptually effective than mechanically effective a chance
to really shine.
I'm sure CLOWN has an Achilles Heel of some sort. If not, I'd
make one.
I'd also like to have a toe-to-toe battle with my own "Circus of
Crime" take place some time...
Knife throwing, giant wooden soldier marching, bag of marbles
dropping, animal attacking, mallet stomping fun!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:01:28 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
ok- question- did the players have fun, or was it more of a
'hee hee, i'm so funney' job?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen B. Mann <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 10:11 AM
Subject: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Darrin Kelley wrote:
> (In case it wasn't very clear before: I hate C.L.O.W.N. to the Nth
degree.
Hey! I *like* C.L.O.W.N.! I've only ever used them once, but they
were a blast!
The characters: a Wolverine-clone, a Mr. Fantastic-clone, a Ghost
Rider-clone, and an NPC mage.
The situtation: the PCs are guarding an auction. CLOWN wants one of
the items. Snapshot is sitting in the front row pretending to be a news
photog, with Marbles, Toe-Tapper and Dot as backup. Tag is waiting
outside, and Buford is in Tee-Hee a couple of blocks away.
Dot starts the attack with a Flash, blinding the PCs. CLOWN starts
for the door with their prize. Mr Fantastic and Ghost Rider slip and
fall on Marbles' marbles, and Wolverine gets whacked by Toe-Tapper's
cane and starts dancing uncontrollably. The mage falls on the marbles
and knocks himself out.
Mr Fantastic and Ghost Rider finally make it to the door just ahead
of CLOWN. Mr Fantastic stretches himself to block the door, Ghost Rider
stands behind him (outside the door) and braces him. Marbles calmly
walks up to them, smiles at Mr Fantastic, reaches around him, gently
taps Ghost Rider and yells "TAG YOU'RE IT!", then steps back.
Tag pops up from where he's been hiding, and whallops Ghost Rider
in the back. Ghost Rider slams into Mr Fantastic, Fantastic stretches
(still trying to block the door), slams into the opposite wall, and then
rebounds back into Ghost Rider. Both are now unconscious, Fantastic
lying stretched out like a worn rubber band atop Ghost Rider.
Fantastic's head is perched precariously on the seat of a nearby
motorcycle.
Back inside, Wolverine is still dance, and becoming more and more
berserk as Toe-Tapper keeps whacking him with that cane. I'll also note
that the *player* is becoming incredibly frustrated. Wolverine can't hit
Toe-Tapper, and Toe-Tapper is dancing circles around Wolverine.
Toe-Tapper finally runs out to make his getaway.
Once Wolverine stops dancing, he runs (screaming) after Toe-Tapper.
Reaching the outside (stomping on the bodies of his unconscious team
mates), he sees CLOWN making their getaway in Tee-Hee. Howling in
frustration, he jumps up on the motorcycle seat (flattening Mr
Fantastic's head) and leaps for Tee-Hee.
Landing on the roof, he punches his claws through the roof and
starts slashing his way in. Tag keeps punching his claws back out of the
roof, further enraging Wolverine (and the player). Then...Tee-Hee runs
up the side of a tall building to shake Wolverine loose. Wolverine tries
to hold on, but Tag punches him loose, 15 stories off the ground.
Not wanting to kill the berserk hero, Snapshot takes his picture,
transforming him into a photograph. The next thing Wolverine knows, he's
standing knee-deep in developing fluid, with all the members of CLOWN
standing around him. CLOWN figures on calming Wolverine down,
congratulating him on his attempt to stop them, and treating him to
dinner. Wolverine, still berserk, screams and leaps. April Foolmaker
mind controls him into unconsciousness.
A couple of hours later, a nondescript van pulls into Times Square
and pauses at an intersection. The back doors open and a figure drops
out before the van speeds away. Left behind is an unconscious Wolverine;
he's wearing a frilly calico sundress and glass slippers, a lacy bonnet
with a blonde wig, rouge, lipstick, mascara, a corset and padded bra,
and several yards of super-adhesive Red Tape (wrapped especially tightly
around all his hairy parts). Overlaying all this is a sign hung around
Wolverine's neck that reads: "SORE LOSER"
The PCs get a call from the cops. It seems that when Wolverine woke
up, he was still berserk, and the cops didn't wanna unwrap him from the
Red Tape. So the PCs had to go down to the police station, subdue a
berserk Wolverine (the player kept flubbing his EGO rolls), and pull the
really sticky Red Tape off his hairy parts (and Wolverine is hairy all
over)! They had to do all this without trashing the police station, and
with the cops laughing their asses off outside the room!
Eventually Wolverine calmed down to where he only growled loudly
when somebody mentioned CLOWN, and he only got slighly hysterical when
he smelled developing fluid....
- --
Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #347
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