Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 351
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 6:45 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #351
champ-l-digest Wednesday, May 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 351
In this issue:
Re: 5th edition changes
Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
Re: The Hero system
Re: What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
One character, two super IDs
Re: One character, two super IDs
Re: What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
Re: Magic Systems (Was Re: The Hero system)
Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
Re: One character, two super IDs
Re: One character, two super IDs
Non-Combat Skill Levels with Limitations
Tachyon Blast NND
Re: Non-Combat Skill Levels with Limitations
Re: Tachyon Blast NND
Re: Tachyon Blast NND
Re: Tachyon Blast NND
Magic VPP & END Pool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 01:17:28 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: 5th edition changes
In a message dated 5/18/99 5:10:27 PM, jmeunier@indiana.edu writes:
>What are the changes between 4th and 5th? I just dusted off my old 4th
>edition rules and am looking at organizing a campaign/recruiting some
>players. Are we all going to have vertigo when 5th comes out?
>
None of the basic mechanics of the game are changing. All Characteristics=20
cost the same. A few powers have changed cost (notably Aid, which has become=20
10 points/d6), but most have the same cost. A number of powers have more=20
options, such as Enhanced Senses and Change Environment. Some "new"=20
Advantages and Limitations are present, though most have been seen before in=20
Hero System Almanacs and other places. The most important change is a=20
thorough rewrite for clarity, and a whole lot of sample powers.
Existing characters will generally need no changes to work under 5th Edition=20
rules, but in many cases you may want to rewrite them in order to take=20
advantage of new options.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 May 99 18:48:35 PDT
From: "Richard O'Marro" <hbcraft@impulsedata.net>
Subject: Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
> >> > - What was going on at the house? What is your involvement?
> >
> >> Again, this is not reasonably justified as being connected to Mr. =
> >Smith in any way shape or form and he can not be held for it unless =
> >more substancial proof other than "it was nearby" shows up.
>
> He was not nearby, he was the subject of a violent attack that ended =
in
> the deaths of two people.
Ah but if you read the original text, The police helecopter flying overh=
ead happened to notice the burning car ON A NEARBY STREET, then noticed =
the house with the open cuppola. It was a cooincidental thing to happen =
nearby, but there is no factual evidence to tie the two things together, =
or Mr. Smith to the events at the house. Trying to implicate Mr Smith wit=
h such a line of questioning without a shred of evidence to back it up =
is both unprofessional and passible harassment. Unless something more to =
tie him to the scene of the house (Such as a neighbor witness seeing him =
at the house, or his car in the driveway, or even him ON THAT STREET) Now=
depending on the neighborhood would determine how hard it is to find wit=
nessess. A Quiet middlecalss neighborhood probably have quite a few witne=
sses at the first sound of an accident, gunfire, or even sqeeling tires. =
A gang-ridden neighborhood would probably have few, both for the fear fac=
tor, and the fact that such things are not so out of the ordinary for peo=
ple there adn are thus not a curiosity factor.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:47:46 -0700
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
I seem to remember it being said that the cost of HA was going to be
changed in 5th Ed. Is this true, and if so, what is it's new cost.
Max Callahan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:46:05 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
there's a difference between a change of pace and a
blatant whipping by the gm. and there's more to funney than
the pc's being humiliated. check out the old jli titles
for some entertaining but not tiresomly slapstick views
of humor.
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Alan Easley <alaneasley@email.com>
To: HERO System List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: CLOWN (was Re: Fifth Edition)
>> C.L.O.W.N., to me, is a complete waste of time. Because the "joke" is not
>funny
>> to the players. It is a "joke" that only the GM gets. Which, to me, is
>pointless to
>> have in a group setting. It does not entertain the players. It causes
them
>to become
>> angry and indignant.
>
>Depends on the group.
>
>>Which can actually hurt the vital trust necessary in a game group.
>
>Certainly, if your group is not of a mindset to appreciate the change of
>pace.
>
>Alan
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:05:07 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Hero system
- -----Original Message-----
From: jayphailey@juno.com <jayphailey@juno.com>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: The Hero system
>>That's why I purposely try to run odd games like Vietnam and such at
>>conventions, to show the flexibility. It will literally run any type
>>of game but there are SOME systems that do it better at what they do
>>(Toon, Call of Cthulhu).
>
>I have run Heroic level cop-show/weirdness game, a heroic level western,
>a Heroic level Star Trek game and the Omega Squad supers, which, at one
>point turned into a dimension hopping game where I was challenged to come
>up with many dimensions and I naturally ripped off every gaming book I
>could beg, buy, borrow or preuse long enough to get a hint of the
>setting, as well as anime and etc.
>
do you have a list of general dimension concepts on hand?
I'm doing the champs-3d thing currently, but i could
do with a few more good worlds. Which genres worked
best?
>What sort of odd settings have you used HSR for?
>
>
short list:
group of alien amnesiacs living in texas, acting
like stereotypical rednecks off of tv because that's what
they modeled their humans brains on.
'real wrestling' based on the wwf and similar
shows, where the wrestlers were 125 pt characters.
constant subplots and vendettas made for
quite a bit of roleplaying.
Aforementioned interdimensional mercenaries.
Involved superheroic level characters and lots of varying
psudo-physics for how time and dimensional
travel worked. oh, and guns. lots of guns.
>Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
>
>Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
>
>http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:53:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
At 12:47 AM 5/19/1999 -0700, Max Callahan wrote:
>I seem to remember it being said that the cost of HA was going to be
>changed in 5th Ed. Is this true, and if so, what is it's new cost.
The last I heard, it was going to be 5 points with a mandatory -1/2
"Hand Attack" Limitation. That may have changed, though (given, among
other things, that it has usually been noted right along with Aid, which
Steve P. didn't do on his most recent post about Powers changes).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 06:19:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
At 09:11 AM 5/19/1999 -0400, Robert A. West wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> At 06:31 AM 5/18/1999 PDT, Richard O'Marro wrote:
>> > OK, I'm from Arizona, not DC, but here's the errors I see right off hand
>> in the handling of this.
>> [snip]
>> >> Shortly thereafter, there was an explosion and disturbance nearby. A
>> >> police helicopter spotted two supine figures next to a car whose
>> >> upholstery was on fire. Nearby, the cupola on top of a three-story
house
>> >> showed signs of forced entry. The figures rose, extinguished the flames
>> >> and attempted to leave the scene, but were apprehended. Both driver and
>> >> passenger had burns and multiple injuries to hands, chest and face, and
>> >
>> > OK, first off, the Supers were not seen starting the car o fire, but
>> witnessed trying to PUT IT OUT. They could not be held for arson to the car
>> unless more substancial proof was found. Same goes for the open door on the
>> roof of the three story building nearby. Unless they had something on them
>> immediately identifiable as from that building, the police could take names
>> and addresses for witness statements and furthur investigation, but could
>> not hold them.
>>
>> Couldn't they be charged with leaving the scene of a crime, fleeing
>> police officers, or something similar?
>
>Why go so far? They were spotted by a helicopter sprawled next to
>rifles with silencers, which are illegal in DC. They had injuries that
>were consistent with holding the unlawful weapon when it exploded. I
>don't think that the inference that they fired the illegal weapons is
>too far-fetched for a Probable Cause hearing. It may even be enough for
>conviction on weapons charges.
>
>Robert A. West
Were the silencers and injuries really visible from the helicopter? The
text above doesn't even indicate that the chopper pilot even saw that they
were holding weapons -- only that they were supine.
From what I could tell, the police didn't know about these until *after*
they were caught and detained, and they should have some solid reason for
doing so.
Of course, since this has already happened in the context of the game in
which it was played, it's all water under the bridge. The real issue is
how it's going to be handled from here.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:14:48 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: One character, two super IDs
One of my players has expressed an interest in having a second paranormal=
ID for the same character--his intent is that this 2nd identity could be
used to infiltrate the criminal organizations that are responsible for th=
is
father's death.
How would you do this? The character doesn't have any sort of variable
power pool or variable special effects or anything, nor does he have
multiform or disguise skill or anything. The only thing I've been able t=
o
come up with is for him to use his experience to buy gadgets which give h=
im
powers he doesn't normally have, then when he has enough of these he will=
be ready to pretend to be a different cape.
Here are the character's current powers (just the main ones), if it helps=
. =
The concept is supposed to be darkness control, but as you will see, this=
character has a terrible, unexplainable concept. I just allowed it becau=
se
this is par for the course for this player, and I get tired of arguing:
* Darkness, 2" radius
* Teleport
* Hand-to-Hand Killing Attack, Penetrating
* Desolidification
That's the main stuff he has... his HKA is just a punch, and why it is
penetrating, I have no idea. Anyway, bad concept is a completely differe=
nt
message....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:25:53 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: One character, two super IDs
David Stallard wrote:
> One of my players has expressed an interest in having a second paranormal
> ID for the same character--his intent is that this 2nd identity could be
> used to infiltrate the criminal organizations that are responsible for this
> father's death.
>
> How would you do this? The character doesn't have any sort of variable
> power pool or variable special effects or anything, nor does he have
> multiform or disguise skill or anything. The only thing I've been able to
> come up with is for him to use his experience to buy gadgets which give him
> powers he doesn't normally have, then when he has enough of these he will
> be ready to pretend to be a different cape.
>
> Here are the character's current powers (just the main ones), if it helps.
> The concept is supposed to be darkness control, but as you will see, this
> character has a terrible, unexplainable concept. I just allowed it because
> this is par for the course for this player, and I get tired of arguing:
>
> * Darkness, 2" radius
> * Teleport
> * Hand-to-Hand Killing Attack, Penetrating
> * Desolidification
>
> That's the main stuff he has... his HKA is just a punch, and why it is
> penetrating, I have no idea. Anyway, bad concept is a completely different
> message....
let him spend them points on a holographic device to change a couple of
his powers to look different:
Desolid could be made to look like armor... his hka normally lookin like a
punch?
could become claws... he could even make an image of himself flying straight
away
while he actually teleports to a new location... so he might want some range on
that
holographic projector....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:46:22 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: What has happened to the cost of HA in 5th Ed.
>I seem to remember it being said that the cost of HA was going to be
>changed in 5th Ed. Is this true, and if so, what is it's new cost.
I still think that the price structure ought to look like this for attack
powers:
Normal Attack: 3 pts/D6, does 1D6 normal damage with no range, cannot add
STR to the damage.
Killing Attack: 10 pts/D6, does 1D6 killing damage with no range, cannot
add STR to the damage.
- Ranged +1/2
- STR adds damage +1/2
Voila, neat, clean, more generic than presently written up.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:55:09 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Magic Systems (Was Re: The Hero system)
At 08:22 PM 5/18/99 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
[snip]
>
>Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>> I've known plenty of "practitioners" of the knocking on wood, finger
>> crossing, & salt-tossing methods
>
>heheheh and how many actually believe or do the just practice because its fun
>and how many real affects do you see..... sorry I forgot I was putting
aside my
>general scepticism.. as I said I'm a <die in the wool> (sp) unbeliever, I
have to
>appologize
>for being imbalanced in this discussion.
>
I don't believe in magic either - not literally, anyway. I do think human
notions of it are pretty fascinating, though. As for how many actually
believe, and how many do it "for fun", I'd say there's a very blurrry line
between superstition and mock superstition.
>> , and I'm sure they didn't require any deep
>> spiritual attunement to perform these rituals. (I believe knocking on wood
>> started as some sort of invocation or abjuration of wood spirits, but
>> people with no idea of this history still attach power to the ritual.)
>> Magic isn't always something exclusive to gifted or trained magi.
>> Especially in primitive societies, magical rituals are commonplace and
>> practiced by virtually everyone.
>
>Ummm my scientist self argues in the real world all magical thinking is a
form
>of irrationality I will respond later.
>
Yes - exactly! Magical thinking is irrational. That's what's wonderful
about it. Ideas of magic stem from parts of the mind other than the logic
of consciousness.
[snip]
>> >Anyone using Xanth as a model for their magic is shooting for humor not
>> magick
>> >
>>
>> I don't think they're mutually exclusive categories.
>
>I guess they are to me, magick is about mysteries which do not hold up
>to humor...
>
I certainly can't dispute your personal tastes; I, too, enjoy stories which
treat magic seriously. But I enjoy a humorous magical tale as well; I find
Vance's Dying Earth books hilarious.
>> >> Faust got his abilities
>> >> by following a summoning ritual, then getting everything else from
>> >> Mephistopheles.
>> >
>> >Over looking the spiritual corruption and insanity that channelling
nastiness
>> >gets you, turns diabolism into silliness.
>> >
>>
>> Silly or not, Faust overlooked them.
>
>foolish was probably the word I was looking for but hey
Yep, foolish is probably a better label. (Especially if you consider the
etymology of "silly", which originally meant "blessed"!)
>> >> Zatara and Zatanna cast spells by saying words backwards.
>> >
>> >That is just their personal foci for doing something, thinking that is all
>> >and I suppose if anyone in their world talked backwards magic would happen
>> >that is so funny.
>> >
>>
>> Actually it is a personal gift for them.
>
>One of the elements oft attributed to Mages but not ADnD wizards..
It's a common element, but not a universal one. I have no problem with
either approach.
>
>> But in their comics stories, using
>> that gift clearly doesn't require understanding; Zatara cast his first
>> spell accidentally, reading aloud from the backwards-written works of
>> Leonardo DaVinci.
>
>You got me comic books can present magic as stupidly as ADnD ;)
>stupid as in not involving mental elements
>
If you are acknowledging that "stupid" magic sytems do exist, then we're
really arguing over your personal tastes. You have a perfect right to
prefer "thinking" magic systems. However, it seems to me you've been
claiming that there's no precedent for a magic system in which mages don't
have deep understanding of how their magic works; that's what I take issue
with.
By the way, I also think you've been overstating the nonthinking nature of
D&D mages. Their prime requisite is Intelligence, after all. And they do
have considerable knowledge and skills. Not anyone can read a spell book or
scroll; only the learning of magic users allows them to do so. They also
know how to use wands & staves, and can even create spells. So it's not a
situation in which their entirely ignorant of magic's workings, it's just
one in which more than an intellectual understanding is necessary to make
magic work.
[snip]
>> One particularly interesting book I have on my shelf is
>> Magic in the Middle Ages by (I think) Richard Kieckhefer; flipping through
>> it last night, I found lots of descriptions of magical beliefs,
>
>Belief is an element of mental state... you sure make my argument some times
But the beliefs I was referring to were beliefs in the existence of certain
kinds of magic. That's a mental state in the society which gives credence
to the magic, not a mental state necessary for the magic to actually work.
>>
>
>> and no
>> mention at all of a mental state necessary to carry out rituals.
>
>Common human or culturally specific experience sometimes generates the right
>mental states
>out of rituals even without one being explicitly told... I doubt the book was
>intended
>to actually teach the magick in and of itself anyway.
Of course not. The book was intended to describe what people thought about
magic in the Middle Ages as a matter of historical interest.
>> And one of
>> the classic descriptions of magic is from Sir James George Frazer's Golden
>> Bough. Frazer identifies the principles of Sympathy and Contagion, but
>> makes no mention of a necessary understanding.
>
>knowing about the connections those rules supposedly make and belief in
them is
>used to generate
>and is a part of the mental elements, this is a form of understanding. You
talk
>about some of the things
>a mage is supposed to understand and claim in the same sentence that the
mage is
>supposed to use
>it without understanding?????? what on earth do you mean. The rules affect
the
>forms of the
>ritual.... they are how the mage designs his ritual. Understanding and
belief in
>Sympathy and Contagion and a Dozen other rules are some of the mental
tools of
>wizardry as well as the methods in designing the ritual
>
But these are more than "tools of wizardry." These are basic assumptions of
societies which believe in magic. The magic Frazer describes operates
according to certain principles including Sympathy and Contagion, just as
the magic of a given fantasy world might always require incantation, always
be colored green, or must necessarily be cast by someone gifted with
magical talents at birth. Knowing these things isn't part of knowing how to
perform magic, it's simply a matter of knowing the ways in which magic works.
>Belief in "as within so without" one of the rules of magic probably listed
in the
>book you mention... unfortunately I dont have that one on my shelf, which
allows
>internal states to affect the external reality is pretty fundamental
>or one might say underlying to magic.
>
>OOOPS That last sentence should be in IMHO but Bonewitz seems to agree,
sorry for
>using one source so much, it really is un scientific of me ;)
>
I checked out Bonewitz in a library catalog and at Amazon.com. I couldn't
find the book you're citing, but most of what I did find was on crystals;
he appears to be a New Age type proclaiming his own notions of magic. (That
would account for the modern bias I suggested; IMHO, New Agers and
Neo-Pagans tend to skew a lot of old beliefs with 20th-century
assumptions.) If his approach works well as a model for magic in your
games, I say go with it; but I doubt that his ideas are truly universal to
the various beliefs in magic that have existed throughout history and
throughout fantasy fiction.
>> It sounds to me like you may be projecting a modern bias onto archaic
ideas of
>> magic. In the Middle Ages, authority counted for a lot more than original
>> thought. A society that thought that way could easily believe that a magic
>> ritual could work just by following instructions; the word of
authorities was
>> the basis for their entire intellectual life.
>
>> If you want further proof that ritual does not require understanding,
>> consider the Catholic Latin Mass. Up until a few decades ago, the Mass
was held
>> exclusively in Latin,
>
>which the priest understood perfectly well, you are going to make my
argument for
>me again ;)
Priests with poor understanding of Latin are notorious.
>> and Latin Masses are still held frequently. The majority of people
attending
>> these masses do not understand Latin, yet find meaning in the ritual
anyway.
>
>They are emotionally swayed by the mystery of it and the sounds in the
same manner
>people are influenced by music. Want to bet they dont know what "mental
state"
>they are looking for ;)
>
>> Certainly this ritual *induces* a particular mental state, but that is
the power
>> of the ritual,
>
>Yes ritual induces a mental state and that mental state is used to work a
magic
>
>> not what powers the ritual,
>
>No magic does not power a ritual... rituals affect a mental state which
aids in
>the performance of a magik
>
>> and it is not a state of conscious understanding.
>
>Bonewitz gives a rather in depth description of how the masses in a mass
>heheheheheh are
>being prepared mentally by the priest to provide and transmit mana to
their deity,
>the priest who knows what he is doing is massaging the mental state of the
masses
>and the mana is being generated/allocated by the mental states of the
>practitioners.. and the mystery of not knowing what the priest is saying
can in
>itself generate some interesting mana flavors... As can orgiastic witch
dances ;)
>different ritual different flavor mana nearly identical magic heheheh.
>
>Transmition of flavored mana to the godhead
This notion of gods & worshippers is popular in gaming, fiction, and
evidently in New Age belief, but I'm sure it is not at all the Catholic
understanding of a Mass.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:47:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: What would your NPC LEOs do?
I think this was meant for the list, though it came directly to me.
>----------
>> At 09:11 AM 5/19/1999 -0400, Robert A. West wrote:
>> >Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> >>
>> >> At 06:31 AM 5/18/1999 PDT, Richard O'Marro wrote:
>> >> > OK, I'm from Arizona, not DC, but here's the errors I see right off
hand
>> >> in the handling of this.
>> >> [snip]
>> >> >> Shortly thereafter, there was an explosion and disturbance nearby. A
>> >> >> police helicopter spotted two supine figures next to a car whose
>> >> >> upholstery was on fire. Nearby, the cupola on top of a three-story
>> house
>> >> >> showed signs of forced entry. The figures rose, extinguished the
flames
>> >> >> and attempted to leave the scene, but were apprehended. Both
driver and
>> >> >> passenger had burns and multiple injuries to hands, chest and
face, and
>> >> >
>> >> > OK, first off, the Supers were not seen starting the car o fire, but
>> >> witnessed trying to PUT IT OUT. They could not be held for arson to
the car
>> >> unless more substancial proof was found. Same goes for the open door
on the
>> >> roof of the three story building nearby. Unless they had something on
them
>> >> immediately identifiable as from that building, the police could take
names
>> >> and addresses for witness statements and furthur investigation, but
could
>> >> not hold them.
>> >>
>> >> Couldn't they be charged with leaving the scene of a crime, fleeing
>> >> police officers, or something similar?
>> >
>> >Why go so far? They were spotted by a helicopter sprawled next to
>> >rifles with silencers, which are illegal in DC. They had injuries that
>> >were consistent with holding the unlawful weapon when it exploded. I
>> >don't think that the inference that they fired the illegal weapons is
>> >too far-fetched for a Probable Cause hearing. It may even be enough for
>> >conviction on weapons charges.
>> >
>> >Robert A. West
> OK, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, bu I don't htink so. From the text,
it sounded to me like the driver adn passanger were found INSIDE the car
that was just put out, along with the weapons. And FYI, Rifles with
silencers attached are pretty much illegal anywhere unless the possesser
has a class three FFL for it.
>
>>
>> Were the silencers and injuries really visible from the helicopter? The
>> text above doesn't even indicate that the chopper pilot even saw that they
>> were holding weapons -- only that they were supine.
>> From what I could tell, the police didn't know about these until *after*
>> they were caught and detained, and they should have some solid reason for
>> doing so.
>> Of course, since this has already happened in the context of the game in
>> which it was played, it's all water under the bridge. The real issue is
>> how it's going to be handled from here.
> Good point. Here's a couple of my suggestions. Because both incidents had
the use of illegal regulated firearms, the ATF would most likely be brought
in, and the case could possibly be turned over to them and the FBI for
investigation, both for the errors made by the police in investigating
thusfar, the greater resources adn fundings of these other agencies, and
the fact that there could be a possible link across state lines if more
evidence is found connecting Mr. Smith to the other incidents, thus marking
it a Federal juristdiction case.
> Secondly, an internal investigation would most likely be launched to look
into why Mr Smith was held for 72 hours against his will. This is both to
cover the supervisor's posterior and the department's. If it is found that
the officers did not act within policy of the department, for this case
here, they will very likely be suspended for a couple weeks without pay.
They will also find themselves personally liabel for any lawsuits that
could stem from Mr Smith's extended stay.
>
>
>
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:51:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: One character, two super IDs
On Wed, 19 May 1999, David Stallard wrote:
> One of my players has expressed an interest in having a second paranormal
> ID for the same character--his intent is that this 2nd identity could be
> used to infiltrate the criminal organizations that are responsible for this
> father's death.
>
> How would you do this?
Through roleplaying.
> The character doesn't have any sort of variable
> power pool or variable special effects or anything, nor does he have
> multiform or disguise skill or anything. The only thing I've been able to
> come up with is for him to use his experience to buy gadgets which give him
> powers he doesn't normally have, then when he has enough of these he will
> be ready to pretend to be a different cape.
Heck, he /could/ just use his existing powers in different ways, wear a
different costume, and nobody would notice. Lots of people duplicate
powers in the comics.
> Here are the character's current powers (just the main ones), if it helps.
> The concept is supposed to be darkness control, but as you will see, this
> character has a terrible, unexplainable concept. I just allowed it because
> this is par for the course for this player, and I get tired of arguing:
Actually, I can make all of these work with 'Darkness Control'...he may
just be bad at expressing his character concept, or be unsure how to
explain it to you, instead of having no concept at all.
> * Darkness, 2" radius
Well, duh.
> * Teleport
Stepping through the 'Darkness Dimension', perhaps?
> * Hand-to-Hand Killing Attack, Penetrating
If his Darkness powers are like Marvel's Darkforce, maybe the HKA is
partially on another plane, which would help it go through armor easily.
> * Desolidification
Shadow form.
Anyway, if I were going to try to be a different character, I would do the
following:
1) get a different costume
2) buy Acting skill or Disguise skill to help seem like someone else
3) pretend to limitations on my powers that don't actually exist
4) cultivate an air of mystery
For example...let's say I want to 'make a lesson' of someone. I call the
Darkness to surround them, then teleport into the center of it and pound
them into unconsciousness. Then teleport back and release the darkness.
If done right, it could look like I turned into a dark cloud that sucked
the life out of someone.
While I was a hero, though, I'd use completely different tactics. Focus
on using the insubstantiality to get in close and then punch & kick. Use
the darkness at range.
I'd also buy Change Environment: 'Gloom' and only use that when I was in
my secondary secret ID...but /always/ use it in that ID...so people think
it's always there. That would throw them off the track.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:22:47 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: One character, two super IDs
At 03:09 PM 5/19/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: One character, two super IDs
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l-digest@sysabend.org>
>
>One of my players has expressed an interest in having a second paranormal=
>
>ID for the same character--his intent is that this 2nd identity could be
>used to infiltrate the criminal organizations that are responsible for th=
>is
>father's death.
>
>How would you do this? The character doesn't have any sort of variable
>power pool or variable special effects or anything, nor does he have
>multiform or disguise skill or anything. The only thing I've been able t=
>o
>come up with is for him to use his experience to buy gadgets which give h=
>im
>powers he doesn't normally have, then when he has enough of these he will=
>
>be ready to pretend to be a different cape.
If he has all-innate powers, and wants to be a different individual,
then using some extra Experience Points to buy gadgets for the variation
would be how I'd do it as well.
I'd also allow the character to take a second Secret ID Disdvantage and
use the points from that to buy some of the extra gadgets, since the two
are related to each other (though that's just me).
Or, he could just take the second identity with a different costume
(with or without the second Secret ID Disad) and use the same powers,
perhaps disguised in some way or with different tactics.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:06:46 +0100
From: "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
Subject: Non-Combat Skill Levels with Limitations
What are the rules for buying (non-combat) skill levels with limitations?
Can a character buy 2 or 3 point skill levels with limitations such as
"Costs END", or are they limited to buying full 5 point levels?
The specific case I'm thinking of is a sorcerer who can increase her chance
of successfully casting a spell by expending more Mana (END from an END
pool) than normal. An alternative way of achieving the same effect would be
to use a "Variable Limitation" which could be either "Requires Skill Roll"
or "Increased END Cost", but I'm not sure the character would ever bother
with skills rolls in that case. What does anyone else think on this subject?
Simon Taylor
beron@unforgettable.com
http://start.at/labyrinth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:44:49 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Tachyon Blast NND
I'm thinking about giving a tachyon-based character an NND Energy Blast.
Between the hypothetical nature of tachyons and the amount of
pseudo-science I'm applying to them, though, I'm stumped as to what a good
defense against the NND might be. Anybody have any suggestions?
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:08:41 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Combat Skill Levels with Limitations
At 10:06 PM 5/19/1999 +0100, Simon David Taylor wrote:
>What are the rules for buying (non-combat) skill levels with limitations?
>Can a character buy 2 or 3 point skill levels with limitations such as
>"Costs END", or are they limited to buying full 5 point levels?
Currently they have to be 5 point (or larger) CSLs, though this may
change in Hero5.
>The specific case I'm thinking of is a sorcerer who can increase her chance
>of successfully casting a spell by expending more Mana (END from an END
>pool) than normal. An alternative way of achieving the same effect would be
>to use a "Variable Limitation" which could be either "Requires Skill Roll"
>or "Increased END Cost", but I'm not sure the character would ever bother
>with skills rolls in that case. What does anyone else think on this subject?
Personally, I don't mind smaller than 5-point CSLs with Limitations.
Consult with the GM on this (or create a house rule if you're the GM).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:10:43 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Tachyon Blast NND
At 05:44 PM 5/19/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about giving a tachyon-based character an NND Energy Blast.
>Between the hypothetical nature of tachyons and the amount of
>pseudo-science I'm applying to them, though, I'm stumped as to what a good
>defense against the NND might be. Anybody have any suggestions?
Some random thoughts for possibilities:
time-travel powers (an obvious one)
magic powers
having time-travelled within the past 10% of lifetime
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:27:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Tachyon Blast NND
> From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
>
> I'm thinking about giving a tachyon-based character an NND Energy Blast.
> Between the hypothetical nature of tachyons and the amount of
> pseudo-science I'm applying to them, though, I'm stumped as to what a good
> defense against the NND might be. Anybody have any suggestions?
>
I had a speedster named Tachyon on an NPC hero team. He also had a
tachyon blast. It was defined as momentarily super-accelerating his
target. The defense was having a certain amount of speed or a certain
amount of movement, the reasoning being that targets with the defense
were already used to super-acceleration and thus weren't stressed by it.
Hopefully we can ignore the question of whether having X points of whatever
is a legitimate NND defense this time around.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:36:38 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Tachyon Blast NND
At 05:27 PM 5/19/99 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
>> From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
>>
>> I'm thinking about giving a tachyon-based character an NND Energy Blast.
>> Between the hypothetical nature of tachyons and the amount of
>> pseudo-science I'm applying to them, though, I'm stumped as to what a good
>> defense against the NND might be. Anybody have any suggestions?
>>
>
>I had a speedster named Tachyon on an NPC hero team. He also had a
>tachyon blast. It was defined as momentarily super-accelerating his
>target. The defense was having a certain amount of speed or a certain
>amount of movement, the reasoning being that targets with the defense
>were already used to super-acceleration and thus weren't stressed by it.
>
>Hopefully we can ignore the question of whether having X points of whatever
>is a legitimate NND defense this time around.
>
You just made me think of one myself: having FTL! Since this is a very
high-powered campaign, that might actually be a rather common power. I may
include Bob's time travel stuff as a defense, too, especially since I also
need to figure out what blocks my Tachyonic (N-Ray) Vision
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Magic VPP & END Pool
I'm working on an NPC for my current Fantasy HERO game.
His name is Gregor Aulfwyrd. Because of his heritage, he can
cast magical spells of a combative nature with great ease. He can only
change spell selections in combat (as is per standard VPP).
I ma using a VPP worth 60 points. Unless there are any
suggestions, I'm writing it up like this:
Crimson Mage Magic Pool
84 60 point VPP: Offensive Magical Powers Only [No Defensive,
Illusory, or Movement] (-1/4)
Now, powers like Absorbtion, Armor, Change Enviornment,
Clairsentience, Clinging, Damage Reduction, Damage Resistance,
Desolidification, Duplication, END Reserve, EDM, Exta Limbs, FTL, all
Movement Powers, Force Field, Force Wall, Images, Instant Change,
Invisibility, Life Support, Mental Defense, Mental Illusions, Mind
Control, Mind Link, Mind Scan, Missile Deflection & Reflection, Multiform,
Power Defense, Regeneration, Shapeshift, Shrinking, Skills, Stretching,
Telepathy, or Transfer are not going to be included.
Powers that are clearly attack based, such as RKA, HKA, EB, and
HA, would be.
What of Adjustment Powers, Entangles, Darkness, Density Increase,
EGO Attack, Flash, Growth, and any other power I neglected to mention?
To fuel the magic, I am giving him an END pool. My questions are:
How much END should be suficent to be effective in combat?
Also, I want to place a limitation on the END Pool that will only
Recover while out of combat. How much of a Limitation is this?
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #351
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:58 PM