Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 356
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:37 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #356
champ-l-digest Tuesday, May 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 356
In this issue:
Re: Final Fantasy Hero
Supersonic Flight (fwd)
Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
Re: VPP and Fantasy Hero
Re: CHAR: The Olympian [help requested]
Re: Final Fantasy Hero
Supplement suggestion
Michael Surbrook
Re: Final Fantasy Hero
Pasifistic Staff Fighting
Re: Pacifistic Staff Fighting
Re: Pasifistic Staff Fighting
Re: Pacifistic Staff Fighting
Re: Pasifistic Staff Fighting
Re: Supplement suggestion
Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
Re: [FLUFF] A question of 10
Packages
Re: Packages
Re: Supplement suggestion
Re: Packages
Re: Packages
RE: Supplement suggestion
[none]
Re: (null)
5th edition and other things
House Rules:
Re: Packages
Re: Packages
test
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:34:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy Hero
On Sun, 23 May 1999, Chad Riley wrote:
> I remember a while back that someone on this group was going to do a
> "Final Fantasy Hero" with level packages and such. I never heard from
> them again. Did this individual ever attempt the game? how did it turn
> out?
That was me. Sadly, it never generated the enthusiasm among my players
that it did in me, and so my own energy gradually waned and I shelved it.
*sigh* It was more appropriate for my college group, which has scattered
to the winds (as is the way of such groups).
I've still got all of the notes, though. Maybe someday...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:27:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Supersonic Flight (fwd)
This came to me from afriend who just got CW. Any more odd powers tucked
away in the software?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Subject: Supersonic Flight
Anybody else noticed that Creation Workshop lists Supersonic Flight as a
power? 10 pts. gets you 750 mph at 1 END. Nani?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:39:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
The 'greater' gods don't need write ups, because they usually stay
out of mortal affairs in regards to being in this plane and directly
(personally) interacting with it.
There are 'lesser' evil gods (and much like, as Michael brought
up, the Greek or Elric mythos, the heroes can fight, and even kill, these
gods).
They include:
The God of the Undead, Cannibalism, and Bloodlust, Dagoth.
The God of Vengence, Cold, and the Emotionless, Cepik.
The Goddess of Lustful Carnality, Seduction, and Devils, Maelith.
...in addition to these "Gods" there are also Demons, who are
quite nasty, and usually Giant sized abominations with multiple arms and
great strength (big monster quality).
Each of the Gods has an extraordinary array of abilities
(superhuman). Dagoth would have certain Necromancy powers, ccould mimic
the abilities of other undead, and raise legions of dead bodies. Cepik
would be immune to emotional control and would have verious ice powers.
Maelith would have flight (wings), some Diabolic magic, and Seduction
abilities.
Dagoth, in and of himself, could probally fight a small group
of experienced heroes (75 base + 75 disads + 75 points experience, three
to six of these individuals) and win with little difficulty. His ability
to raise undead allows him to amass an army (which he normally does if he
is plotting something). He rules in the Land of Darkness.
Cepik, in and of himself, could probally fight just as many heroes
as Dagoth using his various interpersonal abilities... however, his
ability to manipulate cold weather and incapicitate people with such
allows him to harm many more people over a wider area. Unlike the other
two evil gods, his "magic" is innate, causes him no stress, no
concentration, and no components to use. Cepik can often eliminate a
willing person's emotions so they can complete a mission of vengence. His
onlt legions are ice elementals. He rules the Northern Ice.
Maelith is not so much a great fighter in a conventional sense.
Without her magic, she could probally fight a standard character (75
points + 75 points disads). Her strength lies in her seduction and
manipulation skills, coupled with her ability to Shapeshift, and certain
limited magical abilities. She can often manipulate or seduce specific
individuals to do her bidding, or use her devilish minions to fight for
her. She rules across the planes in the Great Prison, where the
rebellious Seraphs have been bound and their soldiers dwell.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
What you have so far looks good enough (IMO) for the game. Only if you
are plannnig for your characters to confront a god directly should you
start worrying about his write up. If the game is oly beggining, then
leave it was written and just give it time. By the time the PCs actually
confront / fight / meet one of these guys, you will probably have a much
more concreate idea of what they can do.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Derek: "But why should I be the one to apologize?"
Rogers: "Because we're husbands! It's what we do! We hunt, we fish,
we watch sporting events, and we *apologize!*"
from _The Swan Princess III_
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:34:27 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: VPP and Fantasy Hero
>> And lastly, if you want the two to be balanced, then make magic work the
>> same way as weapons: spellcasters buy a skill to use magic, but don't have
>> to pay points for their spells...
>
>OUCH!!!
>
>IMO, that would *not* result in a balance between Swordsman and Sorcerer,
>but in a game of Sorcerers, with Swordsmen on the side: useful as
>lackeys, bodyguards and to deal with the riff-raff.
>
>Assuming that Hero is balanced to begin with, the only point-cost
>difference between spellcasters and non-spellcasters is that spellcasters
>are unlikely to find much use in Swords, heavy Armor and other things
>on a typical purchasable-equipment list. Fine. Just make sure that there
>is purchasable equipment of use to spellcasters. If the spellcasters can
>place their spells in Power Frameworks, then they should outstrip the
>non-spellcasters in utility.
I have been using a spell pool system for over a decade now and it has
worked very well. The pool and skill is bought, the spells are learned and
not paid for by points (must like weapons and armor are not). The Spell
Pool results in the mage having spells of real and active cost LESS than
not having a pool and thus the over all power is equivalent or lower than a
warrior.
Mages are very flexible and capable but cannot stand toe to toe with a
warrior unless he has a lot of time to prepare. And probably not then either.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:59:38 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Olympian [help requested]
At 08:09 AM 5/21/99 -0400, golem@fred.net wrote:
>As for other gods and their powers:
>Artemis - Hunting, Tracking, and an RKA with some advantages and
>limitations - divine archery
>Apollo - Slight COM boost, flight, fire or sunlight/laser based EB/RKA,
>maybe a force field.
Apollo is a god of truth as well as light. High INT, Detect Lie, and
Precognition would all be appropriate. And he's a god of music, and has
some healing capacities, so you can do as much as you please with Apollo
powers. I'd make the COM boost pretty substantial.
Athena is another one with whom you could justify a wide range of
abilities. Her Perception and deductive abilities have already been
mentioned, but she's quite the warrior as well. And very level-headed;
easily high EGO as was as INT.
>Zeus - big PRE boost, some PRE skills, and a lightning EB/RKA
>
And Shape shift (with Seduction skill in every form!)
>There are others, which I am sure folks on the list can provide given the
>opportunity. The goddess whose daughter married Pluto, who is responsible
>for spring and growth and such, would do well with some 'plant control'
>powers. Then of course, there is Pluto himself, god of the underworld/land
>of the dead.
>
Pluto is the Roman form, by the way; Hades is the Greek. It's in keeping
with comic book tradition to mix the two up, but that always bugs me. If it
matters to you, you might want to put some effort into sorting out the
Roman from the Greek beliefs. Pluto is a god of wealth, for instance, but
I'm pretty sure Hades isn't.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:52:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Kevin Eav <ukyou@maison-otaku.net>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy Hero
On Mon, 24 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 1999, Chad Riley wrote:
>
> > I remember a while back that someone on this group was going to do a
> > "Final Fantasy Hero" with level packages and such. I never heard from
> > them again. Did this individual ever attempt the game? how did it turn
> > out?
>
> That was me. Sadly, it never generated the enthusiasm among my players
> that it did in me, and so my own energy gradually waned and I shelved it.
> *sigh* It was more appropriate for my college group, which has scattered
> to the winds (as is the way of such groups).
>
> I've still got all of the notes, though. Maybe someday...
I was sort of thinking of doing the same thing, actually; but focusing on
Final Fantasy games 6 and 7.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:16:48 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Supplement suggestion
There's a concept that some RPGs have implemented which seems like a grea=
t
way to attract players to the game. What they do is present an
introductory book. This book has a simplified version of the rules,
several complete character writeups, and a complete adventure--everything=
you need to play the game and get an idea for the mechanics and the
setting. And best of all, these introductory adventures are usually very=
cheap. Below are three examples that I'm aware of:
* Ars Magica (Atlas Games) -- they have a free adventure on their web sit=
e,
plus they sell an expanded adventure as a paper book, "Return of the
Stormrider", although it runs a little steep for an intro at around
$15-$16...still, that's only half the price of the full rulebook. Also,
they recently added an entire free mini-campaign to their site (still wit=
h
characters and simplified rules included).
* Waste World (Manticore) -- They published an introductory book called "=
A
Fist Full of Credits" which only costs $5!
* Earthdawn (FASA) -- Apparantly they handed out three free pamphlets whe=
n
the game was new, and later they put these on the web for anyone to grab,=
for free. The Earthdawn line has been cancelled, but I believe this
adventure is still on their site (they also gave away the whole Earthdawn=
rulebook on CD-ROM for free, but that's not what I'm suggesting here).
Anyway, I think this would be an excellent project for Hero to pursue in
order to draw new customers. There could even be two versions of
this--Fuzion and Hero System, or else one book could contain both systems=
(I suppose Instant Hero/Instant Fuzion could be used, but I'm not sure if=
this would give an accurate feel of the "regular" HS rules). I think a l=
ot
of curious gamers would pick up a $5-$10 book that was in fact a complete=
game unto itself...it serves as a little "sampler" for people to try befo=
re
shelling out more significant funds for a large rulebook.
In a way, the "Wildstrike!" arena combat game fits this bill, although it=
really only presents the mechanics. If a full adventure were bundled wit=
h
this, it could be an excellent introductory set for people who are curiou=
s
about that superhero RPG they keep seeing on the store shelf. I think a
bundled adventure is just as important, if not more so, than bundled
mechanics, because it gives the player group a chance to get a feel for t=
he
setting, which is often a more important factor in the decision to play
than the mechanics behind the setting.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:26:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Michael Surbrook
For some reason, whenever I try to send Michael Surbrook a
message, it bounces.
Michael, if you're out there, are you getting the list message?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:29:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy Hero
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kevin Eav wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> > On Sun, 23 May 1999, Chad Riley wrote:
> > > I remember a while back that someone on this group was going to do a
> > > "Final Fantasy Hero" with level packages and such. I never heard from
> > > them again. Did this individual ever attempt the game? how did it turn
> > > out?
> >
> > That was me.
> >
> > I've still got all of the notes, though. Maybe someday...
>
> I was sort of thinking of doing the same thing, actually; but focusing on
> Final Fantasy games 6 and 7.
Mine was actually closer to 6 than it was to any of the others (since I
liked 6 better than 7, and haven't yet played the earlier games),
especially in the magic system. I also like characters that have built-in
special abilities rather than having to have Materia - I didn't feel a lot
of differentiation in the character's abilities in FF7.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:31:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Pasifistic Staff Fighting
I lack The Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero.
Are they any special rules for "non-damaging" attacks?
A character I am creating has a 20 point CAK, and I would like to
give her maneuvers with a staff based on defense and attacking without
hurting an opponent.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:37:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Pacifistic Staff Fighting
There's always the 'pulling your punch' maneuver which presumably works
with martial arts as well. Otherwise, you've got the block throw grab
options and depending on your definition of 'hurt' the NND's / pressure point
/ chokes...
Curt Hicks
> From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
>
> I lack The Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero.
>
> Are they any special rules for "non-damaging" attacks?
>
> A character I am creating has a 20 point CAK, and I would like to
> give her maneuvers with a staff based on defense and attacking without
> hurting an opponent.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:41:03 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Pasifistic Staff Fighting
At 05:31 PM 5/24/99 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> I lack The Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero.
>
> Are they any special rules for "non-damaging" attacks?
>
> A character I am creating has a 20 point CAK, and I would like to
>give her maneuvers with a staff based on defense and attacking without
>hurting an opponent.
>
Is this a superheroic level game, or a heroic level one?
Also, how do you define not "hurting" an opponent? Not causing injury? In
that case, nerve strikes doing NND damage might do the job, even though
they're causing a lot of pain. (This fits Hero System-wise, anyway;
realistically I'm not sure.) If you want to cause neither injury nor pain,
that's pretty difficult. I could imagine a grab with a staff, but it would
be hard to base a martial art off of that. Trips (throws) I could see a lot
easier, but calling that not injuring an opponent ("The ground is what
injured him!") seems pretty shaky.
Pulling your punch is a very effective way of not injuring opponents, by
the way. Maybe she should buy a few levels with it.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:55:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Pacifistic Staff Fighting
On Mon, 24 May 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> There's always the 'pulling your punch' maneuver which presumably works
> with martial arts as well. Otherwise, you've got the block throw grab
> options and depending on your definition of 'hurt' the NND's / pressure point
> / chokes...
"Pulling the Punch" works, as does tripping, grabbing (though this
character is unlikely to "grab" anything due to the fact that she is
has an average STR), and perhaps "throwing."
I was thinking along the lines of doing STUN only damage, or
acheiving a knock out without bleeding, so the wounds could be taken care
of with little to no difficulty.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:57:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Pasifistic Staff Fighting
On Mon, 24 May 1999, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> Is this a superheroic level game, or a heroic level one?
Heroic.
> Also, how do you define not "hurting" an opponent? Not causing injury? In
> that case, nerve strikes doing NND damage might do the job, even though
> they're causing a lot of pain.
That might work.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:21:30 -0400
From: "David Utter" <neo@prolaunch.com>
Subject: Re: Supplement suggestion
- ---- Begin Original Message ----
There's a concept that some RPGs have implemented which seems like a great
way to attract players to the game. What they do is present an
introductory book. This book has a simplified version of the rules,
several complete character writeups, and a complete adventure--everything
you need to play the game and get an idea for the mechanics and the
setting.
<examples snipped>
It would be interesting to see the Gurus' take on this.
I have another example, but due to the nature of the example some readers on the list may find it not to their personal liking. If you are of a sensitive nature, I urge you not to scroll down, but instead delete this message and go on to the next message.
- ---
- ---
- ---
- ---
GURPS Discworld. GurpsLite rules plus Terry Pratchett.
.)
David Utter
"Is that air you think you're breathing?"
Visit www.ProLaunch.com - cool sites, free stuff, free E-mail on your start page!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:47:29 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Gods... (continued)
Hmmmm Norse gods are pretty humanish.. all be it in a grand scale they were
only
young forever by periodically taking a bite of Iudins youth fruit ;), they
fore-saw their own
deaths (they were killable), some of them had specific powers some werent more
than a typical
marvell super heroe class(others were more DC heroes).. they could toe to toe
with Giants... yet they included amongst their number Alfar an older god race
(aka ealves ) I believe Aesir and Alfar could be played as fun player
characters.
They mingled with humans somewhat, atleast Thor did alot, re-incarnating on
midguard
as Sig Fried and others(supposedly Odin was teaching Thor humility)... in
these stories he seemed somewhat human but quickly began showing signs of
transcending the bounds of humanity.
The Celts also had gods who in many cases seem describable as high end super
heros.
Gods as fantasy superheros seem perfectly plausible. Many of these gods were
subject to maiming injuries and similar effects, ancient peoples attributed to
gods many of their own problems and many gods achieved agelessness only
through specified routes and many were killable, If you like doing god stats
like they do in the dreaded DnD there does seem real world precidence.
Lance
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:51:49 EDT
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [FLUFF] A question of 10
In a message dated 99-05-22 13:15:15 EDT, werther@hilander.com writes:
> Random thought that popped into my head the other afternoon.
> You're relaxing somewhere - the beach, the mall, Main Street, study hall,
> pick some place appropriate. Suddenly, three aliens with big heads and
> pastel-colored skin appear to you and inform you that, as a reward for
> living an examined life or some other pretext, your life is about to
> change. And, coincidentally, these big-headed aliens happen to view the
> world in Hero System terms.
>
> The upshot? You - yes, you - have ten points to spend. On yourself. Any way
> you like.
> What would you buy?
Two possibilities:
A. 5 pts Wealth
3 pts Immunity to Ageing
2 pts Immunity to Disease (3 active pts, -1/2 lim "gets sick but always
gets better")
B. Extra-Dimensional Movement with 2x mass to some suitably cool and
optimistic alternate world (my first thought was for L Neil Smith's world of
*The Probability Broche*) 25 active pts, Extra Time (1 turn)(-1), Concentrate
(-1/2), 10 real pts.
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:10:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net>
Subject: Packages
Was wondering how many packages a character could have at one time?
thanks.
Visit us at http://www.avalon.net/~brat-inc/ ....
"In the words of Socrates... I drank what?" ... Real Genius
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Packages
On Mon, 24 May 1999 21:10:14 -0500 (CDT), Brats Incorporated wrote:
>Was wondering how many packages a character could have at one time?
As many as the GM lets you get away with having.
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:35:10 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Supplement suggestion
At 05:16 PM 5/24/99 -0400, you wrote:
>There's a concept that some RPGs have implemented which seems like a great
>way to attract players to the game. What they do is present an
>introductory book. This book has a simplified version of the rules,
>several complete character writeups, and a complete adventure--everything
>you need to play the game and get an idea for the mechanics and the
>setting.
I believe the Hero equivelent of this would be called: Any Fuzion product.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enimies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:49:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Packages
At 09:10 PM 5/24/1999 -0500, Brats Incorporated wrote:
>Was wondering how many packages a character could have at one time?
>
>thanks.
As many as the GM will OK. I GM'd a PC with three packages once, and
nobody particularly suffered for it.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:12:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Packages
On Mon, 24 May 1999 19:49:03 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 09:10 PM 5/24/1999 -0500, Brats Incorporated wrote:
>>Was wondering how many packages a character could have at one time?
>>
>>thanks.
>
> As many as the GM will OK. I GM'd a PC with three packages once, and
>nobody particularly suffered for it.
In fact, if you are using the package deals in Fantasy Hero, three packages is not
uncommon for a character (racial, cultural, & archetype).
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:19:46 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Supplement suggestion
David Stallard wrote:
> There's a concept that some RPGs have implemented which seems
> like a great
> way to attract players to the game. What they do is present an
> introductory book. This book has a simplified version of the rules,
> several complete character writeups, and a complete
> adventure--everything
> you need to play the game and get an idea for the mechanics and the
> setting. And best of all, these introductory adventures are
> usually very
> cheap. Below are three examples that I'm aware of:
>
> [examples snipped]
>
The HERO system mechanics really don't seem that complicated to me. They
were taught to me fairly quickly, and I have (with the help of my players)
taught others with little RPG experience also pretty quickly.
I think the "difficult" part of HERO system is character creation, and this
is really only difficult with superheroes. At the heroic level, you simply
buy characteristics and skills. Whoopee.
[I may be oversimplifying things because I haven't played anything but HERO
since I came back from college in 1991. I really don't have anything else to
compare it to.]
Anyway. If HERO Games developed more campaign-specific materials (like I
think GURPS does--oooooh bad bad) these sorts of "starter" supplements might
be useful. Right now, it seems to me that everyone who plays HERO does so
because they WANT to build their campaign from the ground up, so they have
little interest in a game to play out of the box.
I wonder if HERO system stuff was "packaged" so much of the power-building
stuff (points/advantages/limitations) were hidden (i.e., players build
characters by choosing stuff with prefigured costs), the game might shake
some of its undeserved reputation as overly complex. Of course, I think this
is what they tried to do with Fuzion, and we know how happy that made
everyone. :)
I think it is in all our interests to keep HERO system popular and to
increase its popularity. I'll think about this more.
grant
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:37:21 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: [none]
I recently played a game with people I had never played with before for the
first time in seven or eight years. It was a very strange experience, and it
(and David Stallard's post about out-of-the-box supplements) raised some
questions about gaming with the HERO system.
HERO system was introduced to me shortly after I returned home from
college--thanks Christopher :)--and I was fortunate to play with players and
game masters who were, on the whole, mature, creative, experienced, and fun.
I had some really great times running and playing various games. It may be
odd (I've since realized) that we (almost?) never used a system besides
HERO: we all knew it, so why learn something new when we can just adapt
campaign material to HERO? And we had our share of house-rule quirks, though
we all managed to play more-or-less comfortably no matter who ran the game.
We even managed to get some new players involved over the course of those
several years.
So what's the point? :)
Well, I just played with a group I'd never played with before, and things
were SOOOOOO different from what I was used to. It was really hard to have a
good time.
Since I've never played at a convention or anything, I wonder: what DOES a
HERO game look like? Has it been so long since the 4th edition rules were
released that every GM has modified the system so far that it's difficult to
go from one group to another? (The rules these players used were different
enough from what I'm used to that I was really confused.)
On top of different house rules and systems, what about different styles of
play? I can play all kinds of different characters. Currently I enjoy
playing "heroic" characters, but that can be Han Solo as well as Captain
Marvel (playing human-eating monsters does little for me right now). But
what about all our varying conceptions of "role-playing"? The feuds that
rage through rec.games.frp.* over plot-driven games versus simulationist
ones, and dice versus diceless testify that gamers hold strong opinions
about how they play whatever game it is they choose to play.
So I've moved and I want to game, and the problem I see is this: I want to
play HERO system games, but I want them run fairly close to how I'm
comfortable already with them; I also want a particular _style_ of play. The
chances that I find a group who enjoys the same style of game I do and who
uses the same system I do seems pretty slim. (And I don't have time to run a
game.)
Does anyone else see similar problems or have encountered them before?
Does anyone have any ideas what to do about them?
thanks,
grant
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: (null)
On Mon, 24 May 1999 20:37:21 -0700, Grant Enfield wrote:
>I recently played a game with people I had never played with before for the
>first time in seven or eight years. It was a very strange experience, and it
>(and David Stallard's post about out-of-the-box supplements) raised some
>questions about gaming with the HERO system.
>
>HERO system was introduced to me shortly after I returned home from
>college--thanks Christopher :)--and I was fortunate to play with players and
>game masters who were, on the whole, mature, creative, experienced, and fun.
>I had some really great times running and playing various games. It may be
>odd (I've since realized) that we (almost?) never used a system besides
>HERO: we all knew it, so why learn something new when we can just adapt
>campaign material to HERO? And we had our share of house-rule quirks, though
>we all managed to play more-or-less comfortably no matter who ran the game.
>We even managed to get some new players involved over the course of those
>several years.
This type of experience is why I take great pains to NOT introduce house rules into my
games very often. The bulk of my gaming experience has been with an amorphous
mass made up of half a dozen inter-related gaming groups (you think it's hard to get 6
people to agree on a house rule, try 60).
>So what's the point? :)
>
>Well, I just played with a group I'd never played with before, and things
>were SOOOOOO different from what I was used to. It was really hard to have a
>good time.
>
>Since I've never played at a convention or anything, I wonder: what DOES a
>HERO game look like? Has it been so long since the 4th edition rules were
>released that every GM has modified the system so far that it's difficult to
>go from one group to another? (The rules these players used were different
>enough from what I'm used to that I was really confused.)
Most of the convention gaming I've done has been with GMs who ran a very clean
(rules-wise) game and told you up front whick optional rules would be in use.
>On top of different house rules and systems, what about different styles of
>play? I can play all kinds of different characters. Currently I enjoy
>playing "heroic" characters, but that can be Han Solo as well as Captain
>Marvel (playing human-eating monsters does little for me right now). But
>what about all our varying conceptions of "role-playing"? The feuds that
>rage through rec.games.frp.* over plot-driven games versus simulationist
>ones, and dice versus diceless testify that gamers hold strong opinions
>about how they play whatever game it is they choose to play.
>
>So I've moved and I want to game, and the problem I see is this: I want to
Moved where?
>play HERO system games, but I want them run fairly close to how I'm
>comfortable already with them; I also want a particular _style_ of play. The
>chances that I find a group who enjoys the same style of game I do and who
>uses the same system I do seems pretty slim. (And I don't have time to run a
>game.)
Depends on your style/system preferences. Hero Systems (as the name implies)
lends itself strongly to "Heroic" role play (I love having characters that are sturdy
enough to survive stupidly heroic actions) so you should be pretty safe there - I would
guess that the "heroic" players outnumber the "human-eating monsters" players in the
Hero System community.
>Does anyone else see similar problems or have encountered them before?
Yep.
>Does anyone have any ideas what to do about them?
* Don't use house rules if possible.
* GMs need to be very clear on what house and optional rules are in use.
* Know what type of game it is before you start (nothing quite like epecting four-color
and getting World of Darkness).
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:13:52 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@actonline.com.au>
Subject: 5th edition and other things
Any chance of the 5th edition being available in the States by the
middle of July?
Yep, thats what I thought...
Seriously, I am heading across to the States in about three weeks and
while over there, thought I would get in some decent aquiring at
reasonable prices.
Could anybody in the Seattle area get in contact with me off list as to
the locations of decent gaming shops and computer suppliers, parts more
than complete units. I will also be in LA, San Fransico, Orlando and
Chicago (plus a few others)from middle of June to the middle of July,
but Seattle is my last stopping point before heading back to Australia.
If there are any gaming conventions going on in those places, I'll
accept them as well.
Thanks for your time and sorry for disturbing you.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:00:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: House Rules:
On the House Rule subject, I have a house rule idea that I would like
some feedback on. For background it will be for a very high power JLA
type game I was thinking of allowing a player to use any official
optional rule for +/-5pts., and use any published optional rule ( either
magazines or webpages ) for +/-10pts. or more, and any other house rules
for a minimum cost of 10pts., and a successful PERSUASION roll against
me personally. :)
I think this makes some sense because an archer wold be more likely to
want Hit Locations, while a speedster would look at long term endurance.
Also a Martial Artist may take the bleeding rules as a disadvantaged
while a Brick wouldn't want to.
I know I'm asking for headaches, but other then that how does this
sound? Should I charge more or less? Would it be better to preprice all
the optional rules. Any suggestions besides to listen to the nice men in
white coats :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:07:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Packages
At 11:12 PM 5/24/1999 -0400, John Desmarais wrote:
>On Mon, 24 May 1999 19:49:03 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>>At 09:10 PM 5/24/1999 -0500, Brats Incorporated wrote:
>>>Was wondering how many packages a character could have at one time?
>>>
>>>thanks.
>>
>> As many as the GM will OK. I GM'd a PC with three packages once, and
>>nobody particularly suffered for it.
>
>In fact, if you are using the package deals in Fantasy Hero, three
packages is not
>uncommon for a character (racial, cultural, & archetype).
It was Fantasy Hero (actually a fantasy-adapted Champions game, since
Fantasy Hero hadn't yet been released), but the character was human --
these were three archetype packages, fighter/mage/techno IIRC.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:17:13 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Packages
In a message dated 5/25/99 9:12:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
> It was Fantasy Hero (actually a fantasy-adapted Champions game, since
> Fantasy Hero hadn't yet been released), but the character was human --
> these were three archetype packages, fighter/mage/techno IIRC.
is there not some kind of rule allowing the maximum package disad per
character to be 3 points? or is that just per package?
andy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: test
test
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We're Americans -- with a capital 'A', huh? Do you know what that means?
Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent
nation on Earth. We are the wretched refuse!"
John Winger (Bill Murray), from _Stripes_
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #356
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Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 03:59 PM