Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 36
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 5:28 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #36
champ-l-digest Tuesday, November 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 036
In this issue:
Re: Comeliness / Perception
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Comeliness / Perception
Re: Comeliness / Perception
Re: Character help, Arclight
Re: Negative Sight
[Humor] Gamer's Purity Test
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Negative Sight
Shrinking Question
Re: Negative Sight
Re: Shrinking Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:08:50 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Comeliness / Perception
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
>At 10:04 PM 11/8/98 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>>From: Kim Foster
>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>> I might be in the minority, but I prefer Com as a stat.
<snip>
>>Not quite. In HERO there are some Talents, like Speed Draw, which are
>>treated like skills. Not everyone with them is the same.
>
>The diffrence here is that Fast Draw can have diffrent levels of effect
just
>like a skill. The Beauty "talent" is generally a straight a modifer per
>level. Every one thie, say +2 Beauty is the same.
Which is exactly how characteristics and skills in Fuzion are set up. In
fact, the same is true of characteristics in HERO, all people with a COM of
18 have the same attractiveness. It is just more obvious in Fuzion, where
the same spread as HERO has between 1 and 30 is reduced to 1 to 10.
>>
>>In Fuzion, they did the Fuzion equivalent with Beauty. A mere mortal
>>can have up to five levels in it; presumably the goddess of beauty has
>>even more.
>>
>>Filksinger
>>
>
>
>I think thats a maximum of three levels of beauty for anyone unless the GM
>says otherwise, unless its been errata'ed it somewhere.
The original web release said 5 levels. I know, because my wife had a
world-class stunningly beautiful superheroine character, and I was wincing
at how much it would cost to translate what was only a few points.
Under the present rules found on the web, however, there is no limit at all
that I can find.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:36:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
On 9 Nov 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>
> F> He wants someone who sees darkness, even like it is in our universe,
> F> as if it were light.
>
> Well, you can't see darkness, per se. Darkness is a relative absence of
> light. How can one perceive something that is not there?
Yes, but this is comicbook darkness, not 'real' darkness. If it helps,
think of it as 'negative light' - it acts like light, but to normal human
eyes, it obscures rather than illuminates.
Similarly, cold is just an absence of heat, but comicbook characters can
'project' cold, 'create' cold, and do lots of other things that make cold
act more like a thing rather than the absence of a thing - same theory,
it's comicbook physics.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: 09 Nov 1998 18:02:37 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
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"N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
N> Yes, but this is comicbook darkness, not 'real' darkness. If it helps,
N> think of it as 'negative light' - it acts like light, but to normal human
N> eyes, it obscures rather than illuminates.
When I did that, Filk jumped all over me for bringing reality into it.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:49:59 -0600
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: Comeliness / Perception
> From: Lockie <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>
> >At 07:50 AM 11/8/98 -0500, C. Badger wrote:
> >>At 08:38 11/07/98 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >>> If they're both nearsighted and absent-minded, then this is
> consistent,
> >>>since the game functions of INT ("the ability to take in and process
data
> >>>quickly") don't really reflect one's IQ or knowledge.
> >>> At the same time, "Nearisighted" and "Absent-Minded" are both
> >>>Disadvantages (both Physical Limitations, though some would consider
the
> >>>latter to be Psychological), and not really affected by
Characteristics.
> >>> The real question is, if a character is more able to "take in and
> >>>process data quickly," then would that character logically be more
able
> to
> >>>notice things that come within his field of perception (visual, audio,
> >>>olfactory, or otherwise)?
> >>
> >>some would fall into that category Bob, but I know some people who are
> just
> >>about as dumb as a rock and yet very perceptive. Good hunters but you
> >>wouldn't want them doing any mental based work for you because there
would
> >>be quite a few mistakes. But they can usuallt get their limit of deer
> with
> >>in the first couple of days of deer season.
> >
> > These, of course, are the guys with low INT and Enhanced Perception.
> :-]
> >
>
> general intelligance irl, simply doesn't exist. Skill show very little
> crossover,
> even when they seem identical- like addition and subtraction in
differrent
> contexts.
> They did tests of these street kids who sell stuff in. . um south
america
> somewhere,
> comparing their skill in figuring proper change with *identical* sums in
a
> lab context.
> VERY clear differences, which lessened a bit when the math questions were
> phrased
> as sales and change, ect. This is just one example, but there are many
> others. So the
> entire 'general int stat' idea is pretty silly from a realist
perspective,
> but so is general
> str, and especially general coordination, ect.
>
I'm with Lockie on this one. How many of you are naturally unobservant,
but went around trying to immitate Sherlock Holmes when you were 12? Ever
tried it? It's hard! Quick, think of every set of stairs you encounter at
home, work, friends, etc. How many steps in each flight? What colors and
types of clothes do your coworkers typically wear, with what frequency
(assuming you don't work in a hospital)?
In reality, there is a big difference between good eyesight and good sight
PER, because "perceiving" also denotes a certain amount of understanding.
Ditto for other senses. It just depends on the level of detail you want in
the game.
When I wanted more details here, I left PER based on INT, but inserted the
"Mental" skill/enhancer (however you care to think of it) between them. So
a mage can have a high INT, but still observe like Dr. Watson. OTOH, a
ranger may not be that bright, but he is sharp when it comes to intuition,
deduction, PER, etc. (Note that this also, intentionally makes PER less
broad than nomal. Instead, it is more straight ability with senses.) In
Holmesian terms again, Mycroft is brilliant (much higher INT than
Sherlock), but his brother has the total package--high INT coupled with
great powers of observation. (He's mentally sharp.) If one doesn't care
or need to make that distinction, then high INT is sufficient for both.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:12:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Comeliness / Perception
A
>
>The original web release said 5 levels. I know, because my wife had a
>world-class stunningly beautiful superheroine character, and I was wincing
>at how much it would cost to translate what was only a few points.
>
>Under the present rules found on the web, however, there is no limit at all
>that I can find.
Maybe it has been changed since. I was going by what was in the
Champions:The New Millennium release and I've heard somethings have been
changed.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:30:14 -0600
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
Subject: Re: Character help, Arclight
qts wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Nov 1998 18:37:02 -0600, Tim Statler wrote:
>
> >11 1d6 Flash, Vari Adv(+1 1/2)(Adv must be same as MP
> >slot)(-1/4), linked to MP(-1/2), OIF (-1/2) END 1
>
> This bit doesn't look right.. You need to put a Partial Limitation on
> th Variable Advantage, so we get
>
> 9 1d6 Flash, [Base 10] Linked to MP (-1/2) OIF (-1/2) [5 CP so far]
> Variable Advantage for Flash (+1 1/2) [Active +15],
> Adv must be same as MP (-2)
> OIF (-1/2) Linked (-1/2) [=+4 CP, 5+4=9 Real]
>
>
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Sorry it took so long in replying you message got buried the the junk.
I did put the limit on the on the Vari Adv. That is why it was in
parenthesis. I only gave it a -1/4 value though. I take it you think it
should be higher.
Tim Statler
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:27:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
On 9 Nov 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> N> Yes, but this is comicbook darkness, not 'real' darkness. If it helps,
> N> think of it as 'negative light' - it acts like light, but to normal human
> N> eyes, it obscures rather than illuminates.
>
> When I did that, Filk jumped all over me for bringing reality into it.
Well, as I recall, that was when you were claiming it would have no effect
- - i.e. that his eyes would work just like ours in this universe - which
was not at all the effect the player seemed to want.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:30:31 -0800
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Subject: [Humor] Gamer's Purity Test
This is not a survey; this is not a quiz; this is a bit of fun. Rate
yourself. Rate your players. Pass it around. There are one hundred
questions: score one point for every 'yes' answer.
Do you:
1. Own more than 20 dice?
2. Own more than 100 dice?
3. Have dice that are so used their corners are completely worn
away?
4. Remember when there were no D10s, only D20s?
5. Remember when the only D20s you could get were numbered 0-9
twice?
6. Know what 'THAC0' stands for, without checking?
7. Know what 'GURPS' stands for, without checking?
8. Know what 'TSR' stands for, without checking?
9. Know what 'FUDGE' stands for, without checking?
10. Know what 'EPT' stands for, without checking?
11. Know where you'd find the starship 'Beowolf'?
12. Know where you'd find the starship 'Warden'?
13. Know what 'The Owl and Weasel' was?
14. Own more than 5 RPG rulebooks
15. Own more than 20 RPG rulebooks
16. Have no idea how many RPG rulebooks you own, but it's still not
enough?
17. Know the Gazebo story?
18. Had the Gazebo story happen to someone in your group?
What's the actual printing date on the oldest RPG book or boxed set you
own? (4 points total)
19. 1990 or before?
20. 1984 or before?
21. 1980 or before?
22. 1976 or before?
23. Did you buy it the year it was published?
24. Is it signed by the designer?
25. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the RPGA?
Have you ever:
26. Played a live-action ('freeform') game out of costume
27. Played a live-action game in costume, with padded weapons for
combat?
28. Played a MUD?
29. Played a solo adventure?
30. Been in more than two on-going campaigns at the same time?
31. Been in more than five on-going campaigns at the same time?
32. Used a rulebook so much that its pages fell out (no points for
'Feng Shui', 'SLA Industries', 'Mercenaries, Spies and Private
Eyes' or first-edition 'Vampire: the Masquerade')
33. Totalled a character sheet by spilling a drink or dropping fast
food on it?
34. Stood on a D4 while wearing no shoes?
35. Swallowed a dice?
36. Been physically injured or scarred by something that happened
during a gaming (not live-action) session?
37. Been in a campaign that has been running more than two years?
38. Been in a campaign that has been running more than five years?
39. Been in a campaign that has been running more than ten years?
40. Been in a campaign which has been running more than twenty
years, has some of its original players and some of its
original characters, and is still going?
41. Attended a games convention?
42. Worked on a booth at a games convention?
43. Gophered for or organized a games convention?
43. Attended a games convention in another country?
44. Gone to another country just to attend a games convention?
45. Spoken to a 'name' games designer or artist?
46. Shaken hands with or kissed a 'name' games designer or artist?
47. Had sex with a 'name' games designer or artist? (Note to games
designers and artists: this has to be someone else, not
yourself).
48. Role-played past midnight?
49. Role-played past dawn?
50. Role-played solidly for more than 24 hours?
51. Role-played solidly for more than 48 hours?
52. Missed your favourite TV programme because you were
role-playing?
53. Missed an important deadline because you were role-playing?
54. Missed a date because you were role-playing?
55. Missed a guaranteed 100% dead-cert opportunity for sex because
you were role-playing?
56. Been on first-name terms with the person who owns your local RPG
store?
57. Worked for a RPG store?
58. Owned or managed an RPG store?
59. Created a worldwide web site which featured role-playing?
60. Written your own RPG system?
61. Edited a fanzine or APA?
62. Been paid for writing or drawing RPG stuff?
63. Written an RPG book and had it published?
64. Run an RPG company?
65. Run an RPG company that didn't go bankrupt?
66. Role-played in a moving vehicle?
67. Role-played whileat work/in class?
68. Fallen asleep while role-playing?
69. Got drunk while role-playing?
70. Got stoned while role-playing?
71. Got laid while role-playing?
72. Been stopped by the police while in character?
73. Been arrested while in character?
74. Been arrested while in costume?
75. Had a relative think you're into amateur dramatics because you
couldn't explain role-playing to them properly?
76. Heard, 'My kid brother used to do that D&D stuff till he grew
out of it.'?
77. Heard, 'Isn't that the game that the kid in Michigan died
playing in those steam tunnels?'
78. Watched the movie 'Mazes and Monsters'?
79. Read the book 'Mazes and Monsters'?
80. Read the book 'Shared Fantasy'?
81. Been told that you'll go to hell because you play RPGs?
82. Dissed a game you've never read or played?
83. Got into an argument about a game you don't know anything about?
84. Won an argument about a game you don't know anything about?
85. Cried when your character died?
86. Attempted suicide when your character died?
87. Argued so much with a GM that they brought your dead character
back to life?
88. Argued so much with a GM that they killed your character out
of spite?
89. Actually thought that you could do something because one of your
characters had done it in a game?
90. Had a girl/boy-friend who was a gamer?
91. Met a girl/boy-friend at a gaming session?
92. Met a person you married at a gaming session?
93. Lost a girl/boy-friend because you role-played too much?
94. Lost your job/been suspended from school or college because you
role-played too much?
Has a character you were playing or a group you were GMing ever:
95. Accidentally killed the guy who was going to give them the
information they needed?
96. Really, really needed to roll one particular number on
percentile dice, and hit that number exactly?
97. Met a god?
98. Become a god?
99. Met Cthulhu?
100. Beaten Cthulhu?
Geek Code
****************************************************************************
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y**
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:54:49 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
>As an aside to certain individuals on the list: Don't get so hung up on
>physics, not in Champions or Fantasy Hero, at least. When was the last
>time you saw a character in any comic book who had more than a nodding
>acquaintance with the laws of physics as they actually funciton? Yes, I
>know you can find upwards of a dozen examples if you apply yourselves,
>but there are literally thousands of super-powered characters in the
>longer-running comic universes. If you express the relevance of
>physical laws in a fantasy universe as a function of the portion of
>characters to whom they apply, you would find them to be a very minor
>consideration. Now, if someone wrote the list with the question, "What
>would a brick with the Phys Lim 'Strength obeys laws of physics' expect
>to encounter on a daily basis?" then all of this would be interesting
>and relevant. As it is, I suspect there's a large element of science
>geek bragging rights at issue, and very little else. I expect there's a
>list for that somewhere.
>
aww! well i tend to hope that they're not that far out of line. .
okay, they are. .
*sniffle*
even spider-man?
>And, as long as I'm carping & making enemies, one other thing. It's
>spelled 'etc.' not 'ect.'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's an
>abbreviation of the Latin phrase 'et cetera', not 'ectoplasm'. I
>manfully ignore most of the spelling mistakes I see in e-mail, but I
>don't think I've EVER seen this done right. Certainly not in the past
>month or so.
>
really? dang. . but you'll note the letter 't' is also AFTER c in that latin
doobe.
do you have clear evidence of the priorities in latin abreviation?
heh heh heh. . .
>(If you hard science types can correct each other over the laws of
>motion and special relativity, us humanities grunts can at least make a
>big issue out of the rules of language.;)
>
can we yammer about a neural-construtionalist view of character creation?
>Jesse Thomas
>
>haerandir@hotmail.com
>
>PS: Yes, I do take the time to proofread my e-mail before it goes out.
>What's it to you?
>
well, it makes me look bad. . . ..
>jt
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1998 09:15:16 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
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"N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
N> Well, as I recall, that was when you were claiming it would have no effect
N> - i.e. that his eyes would work just like ours in this universe - which
N> was not at all the effect the player seemed to want.
"If it helps, think of it as 'negative light' - it acts like light, [...]"
Your words. I did exactly that. Darkness in his universe acts just like
light in ours.
And I got jumped for it.
Sometimes I just can't win.
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\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:44:20 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
Lockie asked:
>can we yammer about a neural-construtionalist view of character
>creation?
Sure. Just so long as you have all of the "c's" in
"neural-constructionalist" in the right position and quantity.
>
>>Jesse Thomas
>>
>>haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:33:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
On 10 Nov 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> N> Well, as I recall, that was when you were claiming it would have no effect
> N> - i.e. that his eyes would work just like ours in this universe - which
> N> was not at all the effect the player seemed to want.
>
> "If it helps, think of it as 'negative light' - it acts like light, [...]"
>
> Your words. I did exactly that. Darkness in his universe acts just like
> light in ours.
Right...you just seemed to forget that it was still /darkness/. The way
you suggested treating it meant 'this is the same stuff, we call it
darkness over here instead of light'.
Imagine the situation were reversed, and you went to a land where it was
almost pitch black when the sun came up, (except if you stand so a
building is blocking a sun - then you're in the light, of course) where
people carried flashdarks to see when it's too bright out, etc. That's
what our world is like for this guy.
In that world, you'd have incredible night vision, but you'd be
practically blind during the day. That's the sort of thing that he's
trying to simulate - it's a radically altered form of perception, not
just 'light by another name'.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:34:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Shrinking Question
How would one buy STR (and other characteristics) that go down as one uses
Shrinking? The character I'm working on has both Growth and Shrinking and
the stats are supposed to be proportional to size.
Any suggestions?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:32:31 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Sight
At 01:33 PM 11/10/98 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>Imagine the situation were reversed, and you went to a land where it was
>almost pitch black when the sun came up, (except if you stand so a
>building is blocking a sun - then you're in the light, of course) where
>people carried flashdarks to see when it's too bright out, etc. That's
>what our world is like for this guy.
>
>In that world, you'd have incredible night vision, but you'd be
>practically blind during the day. That's the sort of thing that he's
>trying to simulate - it's a radically altered form of perception, not
>just 'light by another name'.
Yes. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I've found, by reading
the discussions here, that perhaps the best way to do it is to pick
out some of the base powers that he'll use (He can control shadows
for instance) and choose a physical disad that limits his sight
during the day ... and don't worry about the physics (which cease
to make any sense very quickly).
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:11:24 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Shrinking Question
At 03:34 PM 11/10/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>How would one buy STR (and other characteristics) that go down as one uses
>Shrinking? The character I'm working on has both Growth and Shrinking and
>the stats are supposed to be proportional to size.
The elegant solution is to set your starting STR at the lowest amount. Buy
Shrinking and extra STR in a 2-slot Multipower. Your STR will now be equal
to the Active points of Shrinking you DON'T have activated.
This does have a slight problem in that it forces "DAFC" on the extra STR,
and that the points get out of whack if the Shrinking has any Advantages on
it (most commonly 0 END and/or Persistent) -- though I don't believe there's
any rule against buying "naked advantages" as additions to a multipower,
rather than within it. (Don't quote me, though).
The quick-and-cheap solution is to buy the extra STR with a flat limitation
"Not w/Shrinking", and have the GM adjuticate the ratio of Shrinking to STR
as a special effect.
Either way, you may find yourself wanting to "break the rules" by buying a
negative starting STR. That's between you and your GM.
- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #36
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Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 02:58 PM