Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 369
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:46 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #369
champ-l-digest Wednesday, June 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 369
In this issue:
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Gaming Humor
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Hero Games Website Still Down???
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Anyone need these OOP books?
Re: GRG site updated
Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
- --- "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com> wrote:
> Joe Mucchiello writes:
> > How many times a year does this idea come up on the list? Is there
> a
> > FAQ yet? Something like:
> > ---
> > I'm not knocking the idea. But to make something 1) workable, 2)
> that
> > covers enough genre's and power levels, and is 3) balanced would be
> > nearly as complex as and far less eligant than the HERO system
> itself.
>
> Hm, I think we differ on a few points. First, I've only seen
> two
> or three attempts at this and they were rather sketchy (the "random
> powers" rules come to mind as a good (bad) example).
No, not the random powers rules. I think the most serious attempt was
tried about a year ago. I've been on and off this list for nearly a
decade. The one about a year ago generated messages for at least a
month and still nothing came of it. I'll go look it up if you really
want to know about it.
The discussion was based around 30/60/90 point power packages that
could be mixed and matched to form characters with 10-15 points to
spare for window dressing your characters. The idea broke down when
you considered all of the limiting factors a GM should require of his
characters: max DCs vs max Defense vs max CVs. My problem with the
power packages was END usage. Giving a character a 12D6 EB without a
corresponding boost in END/REC is going to create an annoying-to-play
character. (I take another REC!)
> Second, I'm not interested about making something as elegant as
> the hero system, I'm interested in making something that introduces
> people to the power of the hero system without requiring that
> up-front
> committment in time.
The problem is balance. Lists of powers are not balanced without
expanding the number of lists into too much complexity.
> Tihrd, I don't think that using a narrow scope is necessarily a
> Bad Thing, as long as that narrow scope has enough material within
> it.
> In other words, having a set of characters for a single adventure is
> too narrow. Having in essence a shrink-wrapped campaign may seem
> useless to somebody steeped in the Hero system, but to a beginner it
> makes a ton of sense.
Yes, this part I agree with. Making a chinese menu for character
generation as a part of a single adventure is probably possible. But,
what happens when you make the second introductory adventure which
assumes a different power level and someone tries to mix and match the
power lists?
>...A booklet full of power packages;
This is exactly what the discussion I was talking about wanted to make:
a 250 page list of all powers book. I don't remember who thought that
was a good idea but I assume he is locked in a padded room by now if he
tried to write it. :-)
>... a set of
> villains groped by power levels, along with advice for the novice GM
> on how to run the villains as stand-alone characters, members of a
> villian group, or flunkies for master villains. A set of scenarios
> gradually increasing in scope and power level, with recommedations
> for
> which villains to use with them.
This part of the idea is a good idea in general, with or without the
menu characters.
> In essence, a campaign in a box. Boring? Not enough of a
> challenge to seasoned Hero gamers? Perhaps. But then again, we're
> not exactly overflowing with seasoned *or* new players. There has to
> be *some* lingua franca, a pidgin that's accessible to new players
> and
> acceptable to seasoned players.
There are not a lot of newbies in the HERO system. Probably because it
lacks an easy entry point. However, how does this lingua franca really
become pidgin HERO if none of the seasoned players speak it?
> I'd like to see those archives; I suspect the topic was never
> well-explored, and frankly I can see why. It's not exactly a
> fascinating project for an expert Hero gamer. On the other hand, it
> may be the kind of project that Hero Games needs to grow and
> flourish.
> Even if they need to foster and/or tackle it themselves.
No, it was discussed for over a month. No, it wasn't very fascinating.
I gave it a stab for a few days and then when the discussion took a
turn that I thought could not work (or would lead to madness), I
dropped out of it. If I'm bored tonight or tomorrow, I'll see how big
it is and let you know.
> Maybe Hero needs to look at trying an "open source" style
> net-based collaboration? Maybe appoint a handful of people they know
> and trust to run editoral control; the reward for contributors would
> be the committment to publish a paper product based on the project
> (and the knowledge that they're furthering and fostering the
> development of something they like).
This was also discussed in the other discussion. Person A could do
movement power and Person B could do whatever. They only discussed a
HERO Plus version to start with because the size of the problem dwarved
sane economics of printing.
Steven, if I don't get back to you privately or on the list about this
in a few days and you find that you are still interested, send me a
reminder email.
Joe
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:04:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
OK...so, they're kind of Guardians of Order, then. I think it'll be
important to decide which one is still asleep - that would be the one
whose help /wasn't/ needed to quell the war, etc. Hmmm.
> > Well...you could base them on the Seven Deadly Sins (or the Seven Deadly
> > Virtues, I suppose)...but I think I'd like more information on why exactly
> > they were created and what their purpose is in more detail before I'd
> > offer concrete suggestions on powers and personalities.
> Can't be sins, because they are predominantly "good." What are
> the Seven Virtues?
Lemmee think. (Runs through Mordred's song from "Camelot" in his head.)
Courage, Purity, Humility, Honesty, Diligence, Charity, Fidelity.
One idea that just sprang to mind - if you don't object to a Biblical
connection (that probably won't be completely obvious to the players).
There were seven days of Creation according to Genesis, and there are
seven Dragons. This would make them:
Day & Night, Heaven (sky?), Earth (includes seas and plants), Sun & Moon,
Animals of Sky & Water, Animals of Earth & Man, and the seventh,
unawakened Dragon (some sort of holiness or sanctity)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:39:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
So far we have the following:
Color, Personality, Abilities, Domain, Direction, Element, Virtue,
and Correspondance with Event.
I'd like to add: Planet and Day of the Week.
Any other suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:54:26 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
At 06:39 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>So far we have the following:
>
> Color, Personality, Abilities, Domain, Direction, Element, Virtue,
>and Correspondance with Event.
>
> I'd like to add: Planet and Day of the Week.
>
> Any other suggestions?
If you'd like, Jason, I could collect these as they're finished and try
to sort them into some logical combinations for you.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> For some time, I've been toying with the idea of combining the Chinese
> and Greek elements, with a long-sought and elusive Seventh Element. The
> basic six would, of course, be Air, Earth, Fire, Metal, Water, and Wood;
> for the seventh, I was going to assign spirit.
You could also go with Void, which Musashi used int he Book of Five Rings.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is
make sure we keep talking."
Dr. Stephen Hawking, in Pink Floyd's "Keep Talking"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 06:39 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >So far we have the following:
> > Color, Personality, Abilities, Domain, Direction, Element, Virtue,
> >and Correspondance with Event.
> If you'd like, Jason, I could collect these as they're finished and try
> to sort them into some logical combinations for you.
So far we have
Colors:
Red
Orange
Yellow
Green
Blue
Indigo
Violet (*)
and White would be Taug
Domain:
Sky
Sea
Mountains
Plains
Forrest
Swamp
Deserts
and the extra-dimensional Planes would be Taug
Directions:
North
South
East
West
Up
Down
Center (*)
and Taug would be All Directions (extra-dimensional)
Elements:
Air
Earth
Fire
Metal
Water
Wood
Mana (Magical Energy) (*)
and Taug would be Daath (Knowledge)
Virtues:
Courage
Purity
Humility
Honesty
Diligence
Charity
Fidelity
and Taug would be Enlightenment
(*) Suggest for the seventh, or sleeping, Dragon lord
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:55:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > For some time, I've been toying with the idea of combining the Chinese
> > and Greek elements, with a long-sought and elusive Seventh Element. The
> > basic six would, of course, be Air, Earth, Fire, Metal, Water, and Wood;
> > for the seventh, I was going to assign spirit.
> You could also go with Void, which Musashi used int he Book of Five Rings.
In the world's cosmology, there is the known world, then the Sea
of Chaos, where things are forever changed and various Cthuluian beasts
lurk (it also happens to be a place where other worlds may be reached),
and beyond that lies Void and beyond that Oblivion.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:02:06 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
I'm interested in buying Cyber Hero and Fantasy Hero, but they're out of
print. Does anybody know where I can buy them?
Also, (or maybe "Or") is anybody here enough of a legal expert to tell
me how legal it is to make photocopies of a book that's out of print so
that I can use it?
Thanks in advance,
Tonio
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:05:30 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
At 08:02 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I'm interested in buying Cyber Hero and Fantasy Hero, but they're out of
>print. Does anybody know where I can buy them?
>
>Also, (or maybe "Or") is anybody here enough of a legal expert to tell
>me how legal it is to make photocopies of a book that's out of print so
>that I can use it?
It is not legal at all without permission from the publisher.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:12:33 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Hokey day... no problem... know where I can buy it then?
- --Tonio
"Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
>
> At 08:02 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
> >
> >I'm interested in buying Cyber Hero and Fantasy Hero, but they're out of
> >print. Does anybody know where I can buy them?
> >
> >Also, (or maybe "Or") is anybody here enough of a legal expert to tell
> >me how legal it is to make photocopies of a book that's out of print so
> >that I can use it?
>
> It is not legal at all without permission from the publisher.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:10:11 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
At 08:12 PM 6/1/99 -0300, Juan Antonio Ramirez wrote:
>Hokey day... no problem... know where I can buy it then?
I take it that you are outside the U.S.? Try one of the many online
gaming supply houses. They often have old stock. You can also
ask the list real nice. Maybe someone will see it in their game store
and offer to pick it up for you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> > > For some time, I've been toying with the idea of combining the Chinese
> > > and Greek elements, with a long-sought and elusive Seventh Element. The
> > > basic six would, of course, be Air, Earth, Fire, Metal, Water, and Wood;
> > > for the seventh, I was going to assign spirit.
> > You could also go with Void, which Musashi used int he Book of Five Rings.
>
> In the world's cosmology, there is the known world, then the Sea
> of Chaos, where things are forever changed and various Cthuluian beasts
> lurk (it also happens to be a place where other worlds may be reached),
I'm getting to those...
> and beyond that lies Void and beyond that Oblivion.
Then the 7th Dragon should be the Guardian of the Void and the Gateway to
Oblivion.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files.
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I have
a computer to do all that. I have a Macintosh, not a hobby."
Fritz Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:13:09 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
At 07:53 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> At 06:39 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>> >So far we have the following:
>> > Color, Personality, Abilities, Domain, Direction, Element, Virtue,
>> >and Correspondance with Event.
>> If you'd like, Jason, I could collect these as they're finished and try
>> to sort them into some logical combinations for you.
>
>So far we have
[the accepted lists]
For correspondences of the Seven, I'd suggest:
1. Red, Sky, Up, Air, Courage
2. Orange, Desert, East, Fire, Purity
3. Yellow, Plains, West, Earth, Fidelity
4. Green, Forest, North, Wood, Charity
5. Blue, Sea, Down, Water, Diligence
6. Violet, Mountains, Center, Mana, Humility (this is the dormant Dragon)
7. Indigo, Swamp, South, Metal, Honesty
Some aren't necessarily clean fits, but I think you have some fairly
good ones there. Combining these in this way can be suggestive of certain
abilities and/or personality traits; for instance, the Orange Dragon may
have a certain way of using his flame breath that cleanses out behavioral
deviances, the Indigo Dragon could be able to instantly recognize the
purity of metals, etc.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:23:48 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
Oh, and pwetty pweeze if anybody sees it in a game store, could you
pweeeze email me privately so that I can send you a check or something?
That would be greatly appreciated... 8)
Thanks,
Tonio
"Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
>
> At 08:12 PM 6/1/99 -0300, Juan Antonio Ramirez wrote:
> >Hokey day... no problem... know where I can buy it then?
>
> I take it that you are outside the U.S.? Try one of the many online
> gaming supply houses. They often have old stock. You can also
> ask the list real nice. Maybe someone will see it in their game store
> and offer to pick it up for you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:27:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Gaming Humor
Maybe you've seen this, maybe you haven't, but the character sheet at the
end is the best part about it:
http://www.theonion.com/onion3121/billgates.html
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files.
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I have
a computer to do all that. I have a Macintosh, not a hobby."
Fritz Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:28:44 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
At 08:23 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
>store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
In, as far as I'm concerned.
>Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
>online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
http://www.discountgames.com
you might also try:
http://www.amazon.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:44:18 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
amazon doesn't have it... well, they sorta do, they'll look for it, I
guess...
I could try that.
I'll check discountgames...
Thanks a million...
- --Tonio
"Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
>
> At 08:23 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
> >
> >Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
> >store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
>
> In, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> >Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
> >online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
>
> http://www.discountgames.com
>
> you might also try:
>
> http://www.amazon.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:11:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Seven Dragon Lords (Fantasy HERO; continued)
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >So far we have
...but wait! I looked up the Cardinal Virtues, which are listed
as:
Prudence
Justice
Temperance and
Fortitude.
In addition, I found some alternates to the seven, which are:
Chastity
Effiacy
Goodness
Honesty
Integrity and
Justice.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:09:49 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
qts wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 1999 22:57:45 -0400 (EDT), Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> >
> > You have to forgive my ignorance when dealing with the Heroic 75
> >base + 75 point Disadvantages Fantasy HERO standard campagin. I'm very
> >used to using the 100 point base + 150 point Disadvantage Superheroic
> >Campagin rules from Champions.
> >
> > My first question arises:
> >
> > What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."
> >
> > For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
> >fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
> >(the other knife), and Limited Power: Uses seperate Levels and attack
> >rolls (-1/4) to simulate the ginsu-type chopping action of the two bladed
> >attack.
> >
> >In Fantasy HERO, this is not so... you don't pay points for
> >standard weapon attacks.
>
> >My question is: How do I resolve this?
>
> The 'two weapon' is SFX. You only get one hit on the opponent.
> Otherwise you'd have people fighting with two katana. For the first
> strike or two, you'd probably get an OCV bonus for the surprise of the
> unusual fighting style - unless your opponent knew beforehand (eg
> Reputation).
>
In the real world the most skilled of Martial Artist Samurai do indeed use
two katana. I am sure they do so for some other reason than special effects
;)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:50:55 -0400
From: Arthur McMahon <artmc@icubed.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Dsicountgames is currently closed, it will reopen, but I have no idea when
!!! :-(
Try the following: ( In no particular order )
http://www.CrazyEgors.com/
http://www.roleplayer.com/
http://www.arpeegy.com/
http://gameguild.webrpg.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/JustSayGame/
http://www.titan-games.com/
http://www.hitpointe.com/
< My personal favorite of recent history !!!! They found
several
really out of print TSR products for Al-Qadim, all but one
in fact !! >
http://members.aol.com/aleeder454/
http://www.dragontrove.com/
http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html
< This is a goofy link, it links, but it maybe sending you to
another link !! >
* art *
"Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
> At 08:23 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
> >
> >Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
> >store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
>
> In, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> >Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
> >online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
>
> http://www.discountgames.com
>
> you might also try:
>
> http://www.amazon.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:46:53 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Arthur McMahon wrote:
>
> Dsicountgames is currently closed, it will reopen, but I have no idea when
> !!! :-(
I noticed... hee hee
>
> Try the following: ( In no particular order )
>
> http://www.CrazyEgors.com/
>
> http://www.roleplayer.com/
>
> http://www.arpeegy.com/
>
> http://gameguild.webrpg.com/
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/biz/JustSayGame/
>
> http://www.titan-games.com/
>
> http://www.hitpointe.com/
> < My personal favorite of recent history !!!! They found
> several
> really out of print TSR products for Al-Qadim, all but one
> in fact !! >
>
> http://members.aol.com/aleeder454/
>
> http://www.dragontrove.com/
>
> http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html
> < This is a goofy link, it links, but it maybe sending you to
> another link !! >
>
Whoa. Okie dokie.... thanks... 8)
> * art *
>
> "Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
>
> > At 08:23 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
> > >store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
> >
> > In, as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> > >Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
> > >online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
> >
> > http://www.discountgames.com
> >
> > you might also try:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com
Tonio
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:45:01 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Hero Games Website Still Down???
Greetings!
Well, I guess my main concern is adequately summed up in the Subject line.
Dale A. Ward
*******************************************
* If swimming is so good for your figure, *
* how do you explain whales? *
*******************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:09:12 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
Woo woo!
Found 'em.. thanks!
- --Tonio
Arthur McMahon wrote:
>
> Dsicountgames is currently closed, it will reopen, but I have no idea when
> !!! :-(
>
> Try the following: ( In no particular order )
>
> http://www.CrazyEgors.com/
>
> http://www.roleplayer.com/
>
> http://www.arpeegy.com/
>
> http://gameguild.webrpg.com/
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/biz/JustSayGame/
>
> http://www.titan-games.com/
>
> http://www.hitpointe.com/
> < My personal favorite of recent history !!!! They found
> several
> really out of print TSR products for Al-Qadim, all but one
> in fact !! >
>
> http://members.aol.com/aleeder454/
>
> http://www.dragontrove.com/
>
> http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html
> < This is a goofy link, it links, but it maybe sending you to
> another link !! >
>
> * art *
>
> "Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
>
> > At 08:23 PM 6/1/99 -0300, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Well, I'm in Puerto Rico, which depending on the point of view and the
> > >store could be considered part of the U.S. or outside U.S.... ;-)
> >
> > In, as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> > >Could you (or anybody else who knows) please send me some urls for
> > >online gaming supply houses? Or names, I can search them up...
> >
> > http://www.discountgames.com
> >
> > you might also try:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:02:03 -0700 (PDT), Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>No, not the random powers rules. I think the most serious attempt was
>tried about a year ago. I've been on and off this list for nearly a
>decade. The one about a year ago generated messages for at least a
>month and still nothing came of it. I'll go look it up if you really
>want to know about it.
I wouldn't say nothing. I did end up with a system of "bolt-together" templates for quickly building
super-heroes that I'm pretty happy with.
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:35:51 -0700 (PDT), Steven J. Owens wrote:
> I'd like to see those archives; I suspect the topic was never
>well-explored, and frankly I can see why. It's not exactly a
>fascinating project for an expert Hero gamer. On the other hand, it
>may be the kind of project that Hero Games needs to grow and flourish.
>Even if they need to foster and/or tackle it themselves.
Unfortunately, the bulk of the discussion took place during one of the annoying gaps in
my archive of the list (http://www.sysabend.org/champions/champ-l/archives). I have a
some of the individual posts related to that topic in a separate archive, but not all of
them.
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
p.s.
Anybody have copies of the posts to teh list Feb-Mar 1998?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:13:52 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
In a message dated 6/1/99 5:08:10 PM, tonio@prtc.net writes:
>Hokey day... no problem... know where I can buy it then?
>
You can buy Cyber Hero directly from Hero Games; we still have a few copies=20
left. Fantasy Hero is out of print, but after the 5th Edition of the Hero=20
System is out we'll be working on a new edition of Fantasy Hero.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:15:15 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero...
The Hero Games web site at www.herogames.com will let you order Cyber Hero=20
directly from us; the site should be back up in a couple of days.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:49:48 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Anyone need these OOP books?
While on vacation in Atlanta this weekend, I picked up Cyber Hero for $10
and Star Hero for $7. Anyone who wants these books can pay me that amount
plus postage.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 01:47:24 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: GRG site updated
At 04:20 PM 6/1/99 EDT, you wrote:
> The Project Update page has not yet been created. However, you can still
>check the updated release dats of our products on our Product List.
>
> For the latest info and updates, head to the GRG News page. We've added
all
>the announcements and press releases from April and May. Check it out!
>
> We've also fixed the link to and updated the Legacy page, fixed the
>Azteca.cha link on the Free Stuff page, and added a little surprise to the
>Free Stuff page as well; look under "Usagi Yojimbo" on the Free Stuff page.
>
> Mark @ GRG
>
>
Your main page has a grey background. While I like this just fine, grey is
the default HTML background and your other pages have an image as the
background, so I suspect there is a problem with the background image.
View Source is broken on my browser, so I cannot verify this.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:53:18 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
At 09:45 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>Greetings!
>
> Well, I guess my main concern is adequately summed up in the Subject
line.
Personally, I'm going to just keep checking periodically (every few
hours or so) until it's back up.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:57:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 09:45 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
> >Greetings!
> >
> > Well, I guess my main concern is adequately summed up in the Subject
> line.
>
> Personally, I'm going to just keep checking periodically (every few
> hours or so) until it's back up.
It's simple rally, *soooo* many people tried to getin and order my Kazei 5
book that it crashed the system!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I hope next time when we meet, we won't be fighting each other.
Instead we will be drinking tea together."
from _Rumble in the Bronx_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:15:27 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
In a message dated 6/2/99 8:57:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
susano@dedaana.otd.com writes:
> > At 09:45 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
> > >Greetings!
> > >
> > > Well, I guess my main concern is adequately summed up in the Subject
> > line.
> >
> > Personally, I'm going to just keep checking periodically (every few
> > hours or so) until it's back up.
>
> It's simple rally, *soooo* many people tried to getin and order my Kazei 5
> book that it crashed the system!
Yep... that's what happened... you are *the* man. :)
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:21:26 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
as posted in the AOL Hero board
- ----------------------------------------------------
1. This list is based on my final draft manuscript, and the editing=
process
may ::sigh:: result in changes which would invalidate items on this list.
2. #1 is NOT, let me repeat NOT, to be taken as an excuse to bombard me,=
or,
more importantly, the Hero Games staff, with suggestions or complaints
regarding something you don't like. We already had an incredibly lengthy
period of comment and input (and once again, my thanks to all who
participated); at this point we need to concentrate on simply getting the
book finished. :) Of course, feel free to discuss things here in this=
forum
if you'd enjoy
doing so.
So, briefly, here's some of what you'll see.
Skills: Several new Skills, including Power, Teamwork, and Rapid Attack.
General Skills eliminated; all appropriate Skills now based on
Characteristics. A number of Skills broken down into subcategories (like=
TF
and WF).
Perks: Several new ones, mostly adapted from the Dark Champions line or
previously-published works. An expansion of Contact. A new "Reputation"
Perk for positive reps.
Talents: Talents see some significant changes, in that we wanted to make
clear that they are, in a sense, non-powered Powers -- "Powers" which even
normal people sometimes have. Put another way, they're a sort of a halfway=
step between Skills and Powers. As such, you should be able to build=
Talents
either with Powers or Skills or some combination of the two. Former=
Talents
which couldn't be constructed with Powers or Skills (such as Defense
Maneuver, Fast Draw, Find Weakness, Luck) become Skills or Powers.
Powers: Aid now costs 10 points per die. HA is 5 Active Points per die=
with
a mandatory Limitation (it's what it always was -- a Limited type of STR,
really -- broken out into its own category for ease of conception and=
play).
Sense-Affecting Powers like Flash/Darkness now have differing costs for
Targeting and Nontargeting Senses, and affect entire Sense Groups at their
base level. Flash costs 5 points per d6, but works for a number of=
Segments,
not Phases. One new Power, Healing. Regeneration folded into Healing;
Instant Change folded into Transform. Substantial expansion of Transform=
to
answer many (I'd say "all," but I'm not going to kid myself) of the=
questions
surrounding that Power. A general expansion of most of the Powers to do=
the
same thing and provide a lot more options (either as base rules, or as
Adders/Advantages). Duplication and Multiform revised to make them easier=
to
use (and, hopefully, more "player friendly" without being unbalancing).
Expansion of Change Environment to allow minor combat effects.
Power Modifiers: More discussion of and options for Advantages and
Limitations. A new Advantage, MegaScale, to allow Movement Powers and=
other
abilities to work over vast ranges. Boostable Charges and Fuel Charges
options for Charges. The "Great Linked Debate" put to rest (but no doubt
leading to round 2 :) ).
Power Frameworks: Extended discussion of the restrictions on ECs.
Discussion of how Advantages apply to slots and reserves, what it means to
lose a slot (e.g., have a gadget broken), and so on.
Disadvantages: Expansion of several, including Dependence, Distinctive
Features, and Rivalry. A new Social Limitation, into which Secret ID and
Public ID are folded.
Combat: Mostly just greater discussion and options. Clarification re: the=
use of multiple attack powers in a single Phase. More Combat Maneuvers
(mostly taken from Dark Champions/Ultimate line).
Other stuff: A chapter on the environment which, among other things,=
provide
some guidelines for many uses of Change Environment. A chapter on=
tinkering
with/changing/adapting the system to do what you want.
Those are the high points which occur to me off the top of my head.
Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the final draft, and I hope you'll be
equally as pleased with the published book.
As I mentioned above, thanks to everyone who participated in the
comments phase, either via questionnaire or some other method. I can't say=
I
found something worth adapting in every questionnaire, but I *did* find=
every
single one thought-provoking, and thus useful.
Steve Long
- ---
If I may clarify, what we've done with Talents is make them buildable with
either Powers or Skills. The Talents list becomes something that a GM (or=
an
author) creates for a given campaign. We've included the 4th Edition=
Talents
list as an example. Essentially, making something a Talent allows=
"ordinary"
characters to buy Powers that the GM feels should be accessible to them in
the campaign; or, in the case of Skills, it makes a Skill something
unusual. A working rule we suggest is to make each Talent unique in the
campaign; that is, once one player-character has a particular Talent, no
other player-character can buy it (this is an optional rule, of course, and=
shouldn't apply to all campaigns).
Also, one other thing that I particularly like in the 5th Edition: We made
all the Enhanced Senses buildable. So now there's a huge range of possible
senses you can build.
- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games (www.herogames.com)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:21:12 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website Still Down???
At 08:57 AM 6/2/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> At 09:45 PM 6/1/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>> >Greetings!
>> >
>> > Well, I guess my main concern is adequately summed up in the Subject
>> line.
>>
>> Personally, I'm going to just keep checking periodically (every few
>> hours or so) until it's back up.
>
>It's simple rally, *soooo* many people tried to getin and order my Kazei 5
>book that it crashed the system!
>
That must have been it. It was like trying to get first day tickets for the
Phantom Menace online all over again.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:42:53 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 08:21 AM 6/2/99 -0500, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>as posted in the AOL Hero board
[snip]
>Skills: Several new Skills, including Power, Teamwork, and Rapid Attack.
A Power Skill sounds intriguing. I've considered something along those
lines myself, but never found a satisfactory implementation. I have grave
doubts about the Rapid Attack skill; I didn't care much for the Rapidfire
Maneuver in Eye for an Eye, and I'm afraid this will be something similar.
On the other hand (so to speak), it would be nice to have a standard
mechanic for multiple weapon fighting.
>General Skills eliminated; all appropriate Skills now based on
>Characteristics. A number of Skills broken down into subcategories (like TF
>and WF).
>
>Perks: Several new ones, mostly adapted from the Dark Champions line or
>previously-published works. An expansion of Contact. A new "Reputation"
>Perk for positive reps.
>
These all sound like good additions.
>Talents: Talents see some significant changes, in that we wanted to make
>clear that they are, in a sense, non-powered Powers -- "Powers" which even
>normal people sometimes have. Put another way, they're a sort of a halfway
>step between Skills and Powers. As such, you should be able to build
Talents
>either with Powers or Skills or some combination of the two. Former Talents
>which couldn't be constructed with Powers or Skills (such as Defense
>Maneuver, Fast Draw, Find Weakness, Luck) become Skills or Powers.
>
This makes a lot of sense. I've always treated Talents pretty much like
Powers anyway, tossing advantages and limitations on them as I pleased.
>Sense-Affecting Powers like Flash/Darkness now have differing costs for
>Targeting and Nontargeting Senses, and affect entire Sense Groups at their
>base level.
Presumably this means the cost is based on whether the senses are normally
Targeting or Nontargeting. A logical change, as anyone who's ever built a
Flash vs. Smell can tell you.
Flash costs 5 points per d6, but works for a number of Segments,
>not Phases. One new Power, Healing. Regeneration folded into Healing;
>Instant Change folded into Transform. Substantial expansion of Transform to
>answer many (I'd say "all," but I'm not going to kid myself) of the
questions
>surrounding that Power. A general expansion of most of the Powers to do the
>same thing and provide a lot more options (either as base rules, or as
>Adders/Advantages). Duplication and Multiform revised to make them easier to
>use (and, hopefully, more "player friendly" without being unbalancing).
All very promising.
>Expansion of Change Environment to allow minor combat effects.
I wonder if there's any influence from the version I built with the help of
people on this list.
>Power Modifiers: More discussion of and options for Advantages and
>Limitations. A new Advantage, MegaScale, to allow Movement Powers and other
>abilities to work over vast ranges. Boostable Charges and Fuel Charges
>options for Charges. The "Great Linked Debate" put to rest (but no doubt
>leading to round 2 :) ).
>
MegaScale sounds interesting; I'll have to see it to know if I'll like it.
Maybe it will finally let you build an interplanetary teleport right. The
charge options sound promising; I'll be very pleased if something helps
you build an air supply that lasts an hour or so.
>Power Frameworks: Extended discussion of the restrictions on ECs.
>Discussion of how Advantages apply to slots and reserves, what it means to
>lose a slot (e.g., have a gadget broken), and so on.
>
>Disadvantages: Expansion of several, including Dependence, Distinctive
>Features, and Rivalry. A new Social Limitation, into which Secret ID and
>Public ID are folded.
>
It's about time Social Limitation became official.
>Combat: Mostly just greater discussion and options. Clarification re: the
>use of multiple attack powers in a single Phase. More Combat Maneuvers
>(mostly taken from Dark Champions/Ultimate line).
>
I hope we don't get many of the Eye for an Eye maneuvers; a lot of them
violated Hero System logic.
>Other stuff: A chapter on the environment which, among other things,
provide
>some guidelines for many uses of Change Environment. A chapter on tinkering
>with/changing/adapting the system to do what you want.
>
I hope the CE guidelines are fairly explicit. It will be nice to see the
environment linked more closely with the CE power. The chapter on tinker
sounds nice in principle, though I'll be pleasantly surprised if it has
much to offer experienced GM's who do what they please regardless.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #369
*****************************
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:10 PM