Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 374
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 9:59 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #374
champ-l-digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 374
In this issue:
Re: CHAR: Shoggoth
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Instant Change
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Instant Change
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Instant Change
RE: A really bizarre request
RE: A really bizarre request
Re: A really bizarre request
RE: Instant Change
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
RE: Instant Change
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: The Ultimate Unstoppable Immortal Entity
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:18:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shoggoth
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> In Regards To Shoggoth from 1st edition _Deities & Demigods_:
>
> "Originally created by the Primordial Ones as servants , the
> Shoggoths eventually rebelled and destroyed the civilizatio of theor
> masters. Shoggoths resemble huge, intelligent amoebae, able to form
> almost any shape out of their near transparent bodies, including legs,
> eyes, mouths, huge weapons, or whatever is needed. The few remaining
> Shoggoths lurk in distant, long deserted areas, sometimes aiding servants
> of Cthulhu or other Old Ones."
Sound about right.
> Azathoth is accompanied by "satellite creatures that provide eerie
> music"; "idiot flute players," which, in my best recollection, look like a
> bipedal combination of frogs and goblins with rabbit ears. They can lure
> people to Azathoth with their music.
Actually, CoC makes them look like a squid. You might be thinking of a
Moon Beast, which looks a lot like a faceless frog.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Geoff Speare writes:
> >Suppose I want a character that is truly unaffectable while Desolid?
>
> To me, this hits up against the "Hero doesn't do absolutes" principle. I'm
> a proponent of getting rid of Affects Desolid though, so I would say with
> GM permission a character could get Desolid that's affected by very very
> few things.
I've had the thought in the past that Desolid should be broken up
into at least two different powers:
One for moving through solid objects; I'm not entirely sure this
one couldn't be handled with some sort of advantage on or tweak to
tunnneling - tunneling will fills-hole-in-behind and the stipulation
that the solid object being tunneled through feels absolutely nothing.
Another for being transparent to attacks (preferably split up
into energy/physical/mental subpowers; if you want all three, just buy
all three). Come to think of it, why couldn't this be handled with
normal defenses, limited not vs. some common attack type? Or maybe
building in with some flavor of missile deflection would make more
sense.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:27:46 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 07:37 AM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>While I would like to see all of the changes in their completely
>written up form before the book comes out, I know that is not going to
>happen. It would be nice if the dozens of experts on this list could
>help with the "editing", though. I must ask about these:
>
>> Instant Change folded into Transform.
>
>Does this mean that the manuscript has power categories and Instant
>Change is a special form of Transform? Transform explicitly use to say
>that you could not Transform yourself. Will Instant Change cost more
>for characters with higher BODY scores?
>
I think the notion here is that Instant Change is basicly Transform:Any
Clothes to Costume.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:51:34 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 01:08 AM 6/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:40 PM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 05:23 PM 6/2/1999 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
>>>Incidentally, I think that the one-phase costume change is way too short...
>>
>> Agreed. One minute is probably the best, if not five minutes. (That's
>>how long it took me when I was at my peak of health, such as it is.)
>>---
>>
>
>Depends on how prepared you are. If you dress like Peter Parker or Clark
>Kent, we're talking about slipping out of penny loafers, taking off your
>shirt, pulling off your pants, and maybe pulling on a ski mask. A little
>practice and I'll bet I do it reliably in under 30 seconds.
>
I decided to test this out. My 38 year old brother (wearing sneakers, an
Izod shirt, and jeans with a Navy belt) said, "I'm not dressed too unlike
Peter Parker, wanna test it?" 10 seconds and he even took off his socks.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:12:48 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>>>
>>>Personally, I don't think it's that big a deal; if you target it on most
>>>normals, most serious flashes are still going to get them for at least a
>>>Phase. After all, even 30 points is six segments if I understand it right.
>>
>>
>>Maybe ... I'll need to see the actual text before I agree. :-) If so, it
>>makes Flash Defense sort of mandatory ... like having resistant defense.
>
>Not really. At least no more than currently. Under the current rule, a 60
>point Flash will take a character out for the wholre round at least.
>
>>
>>I still don't like the fact that a power you attack with affects characters
>>with a higher Speed to a greater degree then ones with a lower Speed.
>>Agents better start stocking up on those Flash grenades now, since they will
>>work better on Supers than on normals! :-)
>
>Not really. Not in absolute terms.
>
Okay, it used to be that if I did 5 Body with my Flash, I took out a spd 5
guy for 1 turn, a spd 1 guy for 5 turns, and a spd 10 guy for 1/2 turn.
Now, unless I set off my flash on segment 3 through 7, a spd 1 person is
completely unaffected. The best I can do against spd 5 is cost him 3
actions (I don't really cost him actions, but blinded people tend to just
stand there). And the best I can do against spd 10 is 1/2 turn. So I'll
do as well or close to it against a speedster, but worse against the middle
of the speed spectrum and almost nothing to the bottom end. Agents will do
much better against Flash than they used to, and better than Heros.
Now, with the new cost, I can get twice as much Flash for my points, so I
get 10 body instead of 5. The Speed 10 guy is now affected for most of his
actions for the turn. The spd 5 guy is affected for at least all but 1 and
possably all of his actions. The spd 1 guy for 1 action (which is all he
gets).
So normals will be almost unaffected by a flash which is actually MORE
effective against supers.
So basicly a Flash that does a Body of 10 now gets just about everybody for
one turn.
Which isn't a bad thing. It's just that Flashing the guards used to take
them out effectively forever.
I would like to point out that a Flash which, on average does 5 Body, costs
100 points in 4th ed as will the 10 Body one under 5th ed.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:14:29 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>>>
>>>Personally, I don't think it's that big a deal; if you target it on most
>>>normals, most serious flashes are still going to get them for at least a
>>>Phase. After all, even 30 points is six segments if I understand it right.
>>
>>
>>Maybe ... I'll need to see the actual text before I agree. :-) If so, it
>>makes Flash Defense sort of mandatory ... like having resistant defense.
>
>Not really. At least no more than currently. Under the current rule, a 60
>point Flash will take a character out for the wholre round at least.
>
>>
>>I still don't like the fact that a power you attack with affects characters
>>with a higher Speed to a greater degree then ones with a lower Speed.
>>Agents better start stocking up on those Flash grenades now, since they will
>>work better on Supers than on normals! :-)
>
>Not really. Not in absolute terms.
>
Okay, it used to be that if I did 5 Body with my Flash, I took out a spd 5
guy for 1 turn, a spd 1 guy for 5 turns, and a spd 10 guy for 1/2 turn.
Now, unless I set off my flash on segment 3 through 7, a spd 1 person is
completely unaffected. The best I can do against spd 5 is cost him 3
actions (I don't really cost him actions, but blinded people tend to just
stand there). And the best I can do against spd 10 is 1/2 turn. So I'll
do as well or close to it against a speedster, but worse against the middle
of the speed spectrum and almost nothing to the bottom end. Agents will do
much better against Flash than they used to, and better than Heros.
Now, with the new cost, I can get twice as much Flash for my points, so I
get 10 body instead of 5. The Speed 10 guy is now affected for most of his
actions for the turn. The spd 5 guy is affected for at least all but 1 and
possably all of his actions. The spd 1 guy for 1 action (which is all he
gets).
So normals will be almost unaffected by a flash which is actually MORE
effective against supers.
So basicly a Flash that does a Body of 10 now gets just about everybody for
one turn.
Which isn't a bad thing. It's just that Flashing the guards used to take
them out effectively forever.
I would like to point out that a Flash which, on average does 5 Body, costs
100 points in 4th ed as will the 10 Body one under 5th ed.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:16:22 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 09:31 PM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>
>> >Sense-Affecting Powers like Flash/Darkness now have
>> differing costs for
>> >Targeting and Nontargeting Senses, and affect entire Sense
>> Groups at their
>> >base level. Flash costs 5 points per d6, but works for a
>> number of Segments,
>>
>> Good. The single sense thing was always middlin' annoying...and often
>> irrational.
>>
>
>
>If I'm remembering correctly, this also encouraged players to buy the silly
>"Flash vs. Normal Hearing and Sight Group" because the single sense came for
>free when you purchased a whole sense group.
>
Not totally silly: I always figured this was a bright flash of light
accompanied by a loud popping sound.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:26:51 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>Now, with the new cost, I can get twice as much Flash for my points, so I
>get 10 body instead of 5. The Speed 10 guy is now affected for most of his
>actions for the turn. The spd 5 guy is affected for at least all but 1 and
>possably all of his actions. The spd 1 guy for 1 action (which is all he
>gets).
>So normals will be almost unaffected by a flash which is actually MORE
>effective against supers.
In addition to "# of phases lost", you can also measure the effectiveness
of the Flash by "length of time target is at 1/2 DCV". Even if a SPD 1
character only loses one action, he's at 1/2 DCV for most of a Turn, which
gives people plenty of time to attack/run away/switch the poisoned goblet
with the pure one.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:48:37 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 03:14 PM 6/3/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>
>Okay, it used to be that if I did 5 Body with my Flash, I took out a spd 5
>guy for 1 turn, a spd 1 guy for 5 turns, and a spd 10 guy for 1/2 turn.
>Now, unless I set off my flash on segment 3 through 7, a spd 1 person is
>completely unaffected. The best I can do against spd 5 is cost him 3
>actions (I don't really cost him actions, but blinded people tend to just
>stand there). And the best I can do against spd 10 is 1/2 turn. So I'll
>do as well or close to it against a speedster, but worse against the middle
>of the speed spectrum and almost nothing to the bottom end. Agents will do
>much better against Flash than they used to, and better than Heros.
No matter when in a Turn a character is Flashed, that character is at
1/2 DCV versus all attacks until he recovers from being Flashed. Thus,
under the previous Flash rule, the SPD 5 guy was at 0 DCV for 1 Turn, the
SPD 1 guy was at 0 DCV for 5 Turns, and the SPD 10 guy was at 0 DCV for 1/2
Turn.
>Now, with the new cost, I can get twice as much Flash for my points, so I
>get 10 body instead of 5. The Speed 10 guy is now affected for most of his
>actions for the turn. The spd 5 guy is affected for at least all but 1 and
>possably all of his actions. The spd 1 guy for 1 action (which is all he
>gets).
On the other hand, the number of opponents' actions for which the
characters are affected are equal in all cases.
>So normals will be almost unaffected by a flash which is actually MORE
>effective against supers.
Not quite. It only *appears* that way to you, because the only thing
you're taking into consideration is the respective affected characters' own
action phases. However, in my experience, being at reduced DCV versus
others' attacks is actually the more significant effect of a Flash, and by
quite a bit.
>So basicly a Flash that does a Body of 10 now gets just about everybody for
>one turn.
That's about right. (And I can't think offhand of any logical reason
that people with faster reflexes should also automatically recover more
quickly from sensory overloads.)
>Which isn't a bad thing. It's just that Flashing the guards used to take
>them out effectively forever.
It still will. All you gotta do is hit them real hard! (And since you
won't need those Combat Skill Levels for OCV, you can use them for extra
damage!)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:49:34 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 03:26 PM 6/3/1999 -0400, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
>>Now, with the new cost, I can get twice as much Flash for my points, so I
>>get 10 body instead of 5. The Speed 10 guy is now affected for most of his
>>actions for the turn. The spd 5 guy is affected for at least all but 1 and
>>possably all of his actions. The spd 1 guy for 1 action (which is all he
>>gets).
>>So normals will be almost unaffected by a flash which is actually MORE
>>effective against supers.
>
>In addition to "# of phases lost", you can also measure the effectiveness
>of the Flash by "length of time target is at 1/2 DCV". Even if a SPD 1
>character only loses one action, he's at 1/2 DCV for most of a Turn, which
>gives people plenty of time to attack/run away/switch the poisoned goblet
>with the pure one.
So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...? ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:51:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 01:51 PM 6/3/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>I decided to test this out. My 38 year old brother (wearing sneakers, an
>Izod shirt, and jeans with a Navy belt) said, "I'm not dressed too unlike
>Peter Parker, wanna test it?" 10 seconds and he even took off his socks.
Okay, a Turn, then.
Razza frazza razza frazza.... ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:57:07 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
> So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...? ;-]
Get it?
Got it.
Good.
:)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:57:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
> > So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...? ;-]
>
> Get it?
> Got it.
> Good.
Uhm.. I think I missed that, can we start over?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:34:33 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
At 09:03 AM 6/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, so this is a strange question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
>
>At one point, it was discovered in the local Maryland area that a lot of
>stores have Dr. Pepper knockoffs. All of these sodas are named 'Dr.'
>something and, well, after a while we realized we had a super-team in the
>making.
>
>Here's the current cast:
>The Nefarious Dr. Zing
>The Magnificent Dr. Pepper
>The Dynamic Dr. Rocket
>The Invincible Dr. Thunder
>The Flamboyant Dr. Skipper
>
>(yes, we added the epithets).
>
>Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen similar sodas in
>their local grocery stores, and is so, what?
>
>Oh, and yes, we will probably be turning this bunch into a fully written
>up super-team.
>
Well, nationally there's Mr. Pibb, and locally we have Dr.Perky.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:40:31 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
At 06:52 AM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:41 AM 6/3/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>>Notice that there are some Dr. Pepper knockoffs without the "Dr." There are
>>a few Mr.'s, for instance. And I think Southern Lightning (Wal-Mart's
>>clone) would make a fine superhero name.
>
> I'm pretty sure that the "Mr" knockoffs are from "Mr Pibb," which IIRC
>is a different formula base altogether. (At any rate, more than one
>company, Shasta among them, has knockoffs of each.)
>---
How different could it be? They're both prune sodas.
I had noticed, however, that Mr.Pibb and Dr.Pepper are rarely available in
the same area.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:03:31 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
I think the vessel with the pestle has the pellet with the poison; the=
flagon with the dragon holds the brew that is true.
Guy
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 6/3/99 at 3:57 PM Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
>>
>> > So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...?=
;-]
>>
>> Get it?
>> Got it.
>> Good.
>
>Uhm.. I think I missed that, can we start over?
>
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> "Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
> Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:06:14 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
At 03:40 PM 6/3/99 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>At 06:52 AM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 09:41 AM 6/3/1999 -0400, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>>
>>>Notice that there are some Dr. Pepper knockoffs without the "Dr." There are
>>>a few Mr.'s, for instance. And I think Southern Lightning (Wal-Mart's
>>>clone) would make a fine superhero name.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that the "Mr" knockoffs are from "Mr Pibb," which IIRC
>>is a different formula base altogether. (At any rate, more than one
>>company, Shasta among them, has knockoffs of each.)
>>---
>
>How different could it be? They're both prune sodas.
>I had noticed, however, that Mr.Pibb and Dr.Pepper are rarely available in
>the same area.
Gasp! Could it be that the nefarious Dr. Pepper is really mild-mannered Mr.
Pibb in disguise?!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:09:43 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
On 6/3/99 at 3:40 PM geoff heald wrote:
>How different could it be? They're both prune sodas.
>I had noticed, however, that Mr.Pibb and Dr.Pepper are rarely available in
>the same area.
Except that there's no prune in Dr. Pepper, nor was thre ever.
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:10:32 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 03:03 PM 6/3/99 -0500, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>I think the vessel with the pestle has the pellet with the poison; the
flagon with the dragon holds the brew that is true.
>
Only because they broke the chalice from the palace.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:01:24 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
geoff heald wrote:
> since Captain Marvel was taller, looked different, etc, I'd
> say Multiform
> is fair game.
The Human Torch looks very little like Johnny Storm. Or what about Janet Van
Dyne's Wasp form?
Now that I think about it, I'm having a hard time coming up with examples of
comic-book heroes who actually change forms rather than just put on a
costume. Here I thought it was a staple of the genre. . . . :)
Anyway, I agree Multiform is appropriate when the personalities of the
characters are substantially different. Since the Multiform Power allows the
player to play more than one character (like Duplication allows more than
one character at the same time), the guideline I use is this: if the
character's forms are actually separate characters (like Bruce Banner and
the stupid, angry Hulk were/are) then use Multiform; if not, use Only In
Hero ID.
In this case, Captain Marvel is just an enhanced version of Billy Batson
(they share motivations and Billy is fully aware of himself as Captain
Marvel), so OIHID seems more appropriate to me.
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:06:32 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: A really bizarre request
> Here's the current cast:
> The Nefarious Dr. Zing
> The Magnificent Dr. Pepper
> The Dynamic Dr. Rocket
> The Invincible Dr. Thunder
> The Flamboyant Dr. Skipper
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen
> similar sodas in
> their local grocery stores, and is so, what?
Um, my wife and I found some "Dr. Smooth" at a regional grocery in
Washington state.
Try adding him to your roster. I see "interesting" dynamics between him and
the Flamboyant Dr. Skipper. . . . ;)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:09:57 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: A really bizarre request
> So, do they all h ave costumes the color of a Dr. Pepper can?
Of course not.
They're all cheaper, tawdrier shades from the same palette though. ;)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:25:01 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
At 03:09 PM 6/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On 6/3/99 at 3:40 PM geoff heald wrote:
>>How different could it be? They're both prune sodas.
>>I had noticed, however, that Mr.Pibb and Dr.Pepper are rarely available in
>>the same area.
>
>Except that there's no prune in Dr. Pepper, nor was thre ever.
>
>Guy
>
It sure tastes like prunes. I think it's called "natural and artificial
flavor".
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:36:57 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
At 01:01 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>geoff heald wrote:
>
>> since Captain Marvel was taller, looked different, etc, I'd
>> say Multiform
>> is fair game.
>
>The Human Torch looks very little like Johnny Storm. Or what about Janet Van
>Dyne's Wasp form?
>
I realize that I'm being pedantic, but Johhny Storm has Public ID at least
in part because he looks just like the Human Torch, except that the Human
Torch is on fire.
And the only costume I've seen for Janet VanDyne as Wasp was after she
became a Public ID and it had no covering for her face or head at all.
Being smaller was one of her powers, not a disguise of any sort.
Captain Marvel seemed to be a full grown adult, both physically and
mentally. Billy was an angst-ridden teen. Like Thor and his alter ego the
feeble doctor, they share memories and motivations, but they are seperate
people.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:43:47 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
>>Unless I'm mistaken, you've basically described what Dave Mattingly has
>>already said he's planning on doing with the Fifth Edition Champions genre
>>book. :-]
>
>Dave... any news on when that Champions Genre book is coming out?
Having already missed my first target date by quite a bit, I don't feel that
I can say.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:54:33 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net&>
>At 01:01 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>geoff heald wrote:
>>>since Captain Marvel was taller, looked different, etc, I'd
>>>say Multiform is fair game.
>>The Human Torch looks very little like Johnny Storm. Or what about Janet
>>Van Dyne's Wasp form?
>I realize that I'm being pedantic, but
Thou? A pedant? Why, for sure I can eclipse your paltry
pedantry (see below)...
>Johhny Storm has Public ID at least in part because he looks just like the
>Human Torch, except that the Human Torch is on fire.
Exactly. And I'm going to snip the Wasp comment and agree with
that, too.
>Captain Marvel seemed to be a full grown adult, both physically and
>mentally. Billy was an angst-ridden teen.
Actually, here I have to differ. He's physically an adult but
mentally still Billy. The writers often have other heroes noting
how innocent and/or childlike Captain Marvel is.
>Like Thor and his alter ego the feeble doctor, they share memories
>and motivations, but they are seperate people.
Now, Thor is definately a multiform. Among other things, Thor did
not seem to have access to his medical training as a hero.
- -S
- --
|Now you, too can say "I've been to Hellenback!" Just drop by
|http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy/helnback/index.html
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>
>>I don't agree; it's a very selective alteration of an extent power in a way
>>defined in the advantage, and no worse in practice than some of the odder
>>use of extent powers I've seen. And frankly, I think the portability of
>>Champions characters is questionable at best, and for reasons that have
>>nothing to do with disagreements about Advantages.
>
>Hm, let me rephrase. I think it makes it harder to move /players/ between
>games, if the system is being changed by the frequent introduction of
>custom Advantages.
I'm not sure I buy that either; after all, the presense of a specific
Advantage tells someone up front that this is _not_ the default case, and
the fact it's not in the rules spells out it's an unusual case. I'd
certainly never assume a specific Limitation was assumed to be worth the
same in another campaign than the one I originally used it in, why would I
assume it for an Advantage.
>
>The ability to add custom advantages /is/ already within the system: a GM
>house rule. IMO, that promotes the proper frequency of custom advantages:
>if the book had "Advantaged Power", I think they would be too common.
>
And I think people are too hesitant to do them because it isn't in there. I
think it would eliminate some of the more convoluted constructions you see,
and I would consider that a good thing.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:06:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> Okay, it used to be that if I did 5 Body with my Flash, I took out a spd 5
> guy for 1 turn, a spd 1 guy for 5 turns, and a spd 10 guy for 1/2 turn.
> Now, unless I set off my flash on segment 3 through 7, a spd 1 person is
> completely unaffected.
Actually, he is still affected - he's blind! His DCV drops through the
floor (what's your DCV against an attack you can't detect?) , he certainly
won't be aborting to any defensive moves, and he's basically a sitting
duck.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>I would like to point out that a Flash which, on average does 5 Body, costs
>100 points in 4th ed as will the 10 Body one under 5th ed.
>
How's that? 1D6=1 Body on the average, so that should be 50 points in both
cases.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:26:15 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Just wanted to get my 2 energy-credits in on the 5Ed.
1)They ARE including 'Social'! The list is heeded!
2)They AREN'T including 'Advantaged'! The list is ignored!
3)I would like a notation about 'adding new derived statistics'. For
example 'Mana' (equal to 2*INT) to power spells, instead of Endurance,
or 'Humanity' (EGO+PRE) for use in horror or cyberpunk games, as a
means of adding 'gengre flavor' that is sometimes lacking in Hero.
Ah well. With luck, there will be regular 'Hero Companions', ala the
old RM companions.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chuk Goodin <cgoodin@sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> >At one point, it was discovered in the local Maryland area that a lot of
> >stores have Dr. Pepper knockoffs. All of these sodas are named 'Dr.'
> >something and, well, after a while we realized we had a super-team in the
> >making.
> >
> >Here's the current cast:
> >The Nefarious Dr. Zing
> >The Magnificent Dr. Pepper
> >The Dynamic Dr. Rocket
> >The Invincible Dr. Thunder
> >The Flamboyant Dr. Skipper
> >
> >(yes, we added the epithets).
> >
> >Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen similar sodas in
> >their local grocery stores, and is so, what?
> >
> >Oh, and yes, we will probably be turning this bunch into a fully written
> >up super-team.
> >
>
> Well, nationally there's Mr. Pibb, and locally we have Dr.Perky.
I love Mr. Pibb! They don't sell it up here in Canada, though...I get my
sister to bring me some when she comes up (if I ask my mom and dad to get
me some when they go down, they bring Dr. Pepper, which we _do_ have here.)
We also have Dr. Skipper here (which tastes good), and we have Mr. Buzz
(which tastes good for about the first 2 sips, and then gets really
disgusting).
chuk
(former reader of alt.fan.dr-pepper)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:28:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Michael Surbrook writes:
> >
> > > So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...? ;-]
> >
> > Get it?
> > Got it.
> > Good.
>
> Uhm.. I think I missed that, can we start over?
Danny Kaye. _The Court Jester_. Hilarious. Go see if you can rent
it. Excellent fodder for a low fantasy campaign.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:29:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Dave Mattingly writes:
> >>Unless I'm mistaken, you've basically described what Dave Mattingly has
> >>already said he's planning on doing with the Fifth Edition Champions genre
> >>book. :-]
> >
> >Dave... any news on when that Champions Genre book is coming out?
>
> Having already missed my first target date by quite a bit, I don't feel that
> I can say.
Why Dave, as a past professional tech writer I can assure you
that you're quite allowed to say, even after missing your first target
date (and second, and third, and... ) :-). Don't let it sweat you;
creative writing isn't easy.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:02:25 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>> > > So the flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison...? ;-]
>> >
>> > Get it?
>> > Got it.
>> > Good.
>>
>> Uhm.. I think I missed that, can we start over?
>
> Danny Kaye. _The Court Jester_. Hilarious. Go see if you can rent
>it. Excellent fodder for a low fantasy campaign.
Although, given how good it is, why rent? The video retails for $15
(it's $13 at Amazon.com); the DVD for $30 ($21). You'll want to show,
or at least lend, this to lots of friends.
Donald
PS I do work at Amazon.com, but I mostly buy LDs, which they don't carry.
In this case the $30 LD is pan&scan (DVD is 1.85:1), analog mono. Blech.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:09:48 -0400
From: Gypsy <klgeorge@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Here's the current cast:
> The Nefarious Dr. Zing
> The Magnificent Dr. Pepper
> The Dynamic Dr. Rocket
> The Invincible Dr. Thunder
> The Flamboyant Dr. Skipper
>
> (yes, we added the epithets).
>
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen similar sodas in
> their local grocery stores, and is so, what?
My local stores carry one called Dr. Chek
- --
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
ICQ #3788510
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:35:03 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Unstoppable Immortal Entity
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
<snip>
> Thats a thought :) Although Trolls, etc with regen in fantasy dont
die
> when hacked to bits either, it takes fire or some such. It's hard
for me
> to imagine any example of regeneration where the person who has it
dies
> when 'fatal' damage is done to them, it just seems to be an
assumption of
> the power.
Actually, I always thought that was the default for the Power. It fit
perfectly what I saw as the most straightforward and basic form of
Regeneration - rapid healing.
Essentially, I assumed that Regeneration's most common SFX would be
"He heals fast". That being the case, the last time I looked, healing
ended when you died; thus, this would happen with people with
Regeneration, too. Even many other forms of Regeneration would stop
when they were no longer fed raw materials via the blood to create new
cells and repair old ones, and the raw materials would stop when your
heart did.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:50:51 -0400
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net>
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Geoff Speare wrote:
> >Suppose I want a character who can missile /reflect/ at range?
>
> Should be covered in the Missile Reflection rules.
Nope...it's specifically disallowed. The character can /deflect/ at
range by buying an 'adder', but the only way to /reflect/ at range
is to buy the missile reflection UAO and/or AE.
> >Suppose I want a character who superleaps without a chance of missing?
>
> Change Superleap to Flight with a Limitation and you have no
> problem. :)
...except that the character now has to deal with acceleration/deceleration
times, rather than leap durations. The mechanics work out a bit
differently.
> >Suppose I want a character who can teleport without risking death by
> >missing?
>
> I generally do this one by giving the character a Targeting
> Sense "only for determining whether an area is occupied", so that a blind
> teleport is not really blind...
<nod> That or Clairsentience are the usual methods I've seen for dealing
with that problem. Basically, the trouble I see is that the system is
imposing a mechanic for dealing with an effect that players/GMs might want
to work in a different fashion. I think it would be better if a missed
teleport simply failed by default. Limitations could easily be imposed to
apply damage as desired. This would allow a broader range of constructions
than trying to jury-rig a way to get around the current built-in mechanics.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #374
*****************************
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:10 PM