Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 375
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 9:54 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #375
champ-l-digest Friday, June 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 375
In this issue:
RE: A really bizarre request
Re: A really bizarre request
Re: Instant Change
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: A really bizarre request
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Instant Change
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Instant Change
RE: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Instant Change
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: Instant Change
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
RE: Instant Change
Flash
Re: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Swapping stats
DR Pepper HEroes
Re: Flash
Re: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Instant Change
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Instant Change
Re: Swapping stats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:19:17 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: A really bizarre request
> Gasp! Could it be that the nefarious Dr. Pepper is really
> mild-mannered Mr.
> Pibb in disguise?!
That's really funny :)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:33:17 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
- -----Original Message-----
From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
>On 6/3/99 at 3:40 PM geoff heald wrote:
>>How different could it be? They're both prune sodas.
>>I had noticed, however, that Mr.Pibb and Dr.Pepper are rarely available in
>>the same area.
>
>Except that there's no prune in Dr. Pepper, nor was thre ever.
>
>Guy
yeah, like there's any actual food product in any of these drinks.
next you'll be telling us there's meat in a cheseburger :->~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:34:39 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
- -----Original Message-----
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
>
>In this case, Captain Marvel is just an enhanced version of Billy Batson
>(they share motivations and Billy is fully aware of himself as Captain
>Marvel), so OIHID seems more appropriate to me.
>
>
>
>grant
>
>
there is no 'more apropriate' in hero.
if it works, it's an option. leave it up to
the player and gm on the spot.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:40:38 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott A. Colcord <sacolcor@ic.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>
>Geoff Speare wrote:
>> >Suppose I want a character who can missile /reflect/ at range?
>>
>> Should be covered in the Missile Reflection rules.
>
>Nope...it's specifically disallowed. The character can /deflect/ at
>range by buying an 'adder', but the only way to /reflect/ at range
>is to buy the missile reflection UAO and/or AE.
>
or buy stretching.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 99 16:17:44 PDT
From: "Richard O'Marro" <hbcraft@impulsedata.net>
Subject: Re: A really bizarre request
- ----------
> Okay, so this is a strange question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
>
> At one point, it was discovered in the local Maryland area that a lot =
of
> stores have Dr. Pepper knockoffs. All of these sodas are named 'Dr.'
> something and, well, after a while we realized we had a super-team in =
the
> making.
>
> Here's the current cast:
> The Nefarious Dr. Zing
> The Magnificent Dr. Pepper
> The Dynamic Dr. Rocket
> The Invincible Dr. Thunder
> The Flamboyant Dr. Skipper
>
> (yes, we added the epithets).
>
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen similar sodas =
in
> their local grocery stores, and is so, what?
>
> Oh, and yes, we will probably be turning this bunch into a fully writte=
n
> up super-team.
I seem to remember Pepsi having on that no one's mentioned yet, Dr. Slic=
e...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:33:42 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Also, one other thing that I particularly like in the 5th
> Edition: We made
> >all the Enhanced Senses buildable. So now there's a huge
> range of possible
> >senses you can build.
>
> Now, this I like very much! I'd like to see what it consists of
> specifically, but it looks like this will make for some very
> distinctive
> characters in terms of sensory enhancement! :-]
This is certainly welcome. Though I wonder if the senses are "buildable"
like they are (i.e. by adding points together), or "buildable" like other
HERO powers (i.e. with Advantages). Of course, I'm not trying to hide my
bias here, I think all the Powers should use Advantages/Limitations, so the
few holdovers should get revised to work like all the rest instead of with
points added to purchase more effect.
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:38:15 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
SteveL1979@AOL.COM wrote:
> First off, before I delve into answering Curt's
> questions, a fact to
> be aware of: IC was *never* supposed to work on anything but
> clothes. Prior
> editions didn't explain it well, didn't conceptualize things
> correctly, or
> what have you.
Okay.
I'm one who has misunderstood this forever and assumed that Instant Change
was required for heroes with a "hero form." (Human Torch I've taken as the
example of this: in the old days he'd say "Flame On," and then his powers
would work.)
So how do you build one of these characters now? And what's the OIHID
Limitation supposed to represent exactly?
Normally I don't think I'm a moron, but suddenly I feel lost. . . .
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:41:42 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Wayne Shaw wrote:
> >And I guess we can still Limit Flash to work only versus
> Normal Sight if we
> >don't want to Flash IR or UV vision as well.
>
> Though I still have trouble figuring out what that would be.
> In the case of
> Darkness or Invisibility, it's easy to picture what's going
> on, but Flash?
> It might make sense for creatures with totally seperate
> sensory organs for
> those, but not with anything like a human with extended vision.
I just assumed that no one's Flashing the entire electromagnetic spectrum,
so if you can make your flash stop at radio waves, why not at infrared or
ultraviolet light?
I though it would feel sort of like putting on sunglasses (or another sort
of filter): part of the spectrum disappears.
Anyone else have a better background than I as an English lit person do in
this?
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:50:56 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
geoff heald wrote:
> >The Human Torch looks very little like Johnny Storm. Or what
> about Janet Van
> >Dyne's Wasp form?
> >
>
> I realize that I'm being pedantic, but Johnny Storm has
> Public ID at least
> in part because he looks just like the Human Torch, except
> that the Human
> Torch is on fire.
> And the only costume I've seen for Janet VanDyne as Wasp was after she
> became a Public ID and it had no covering for her face or head at all.
> Being smaller was one of her powers, not a disguise of any sort.
I've always assumed "Hero ID" included characters that change forms as well
as those that change only costumes to assume their heroic personas. I have
also always thought that having both a Public ID and a Hero ID was
completely possible, so the way I looked at it was that certainly everyone
knows that Johnny Storm is the Human Torch, but I thought Johnny way back
when good only use his fire powers when he was on fire. The "on fire" form I
assumed was his Hero ID.
Maybe Colossus makes a better example. Certainly Peter has growth when he's
in his "normal" form, but when he changes to his armored form, he gains
Armor and maybe some Density Increase, that would limit Only in Hero ID.
Of course, I'm admittedly one of those who was confused about Instant Change
and Hero ID, so we're probably just seeing the situation differently.
Maybe 5th Edition explains this all better. What are some other people's
ideas about what constitutes a "Hero ID"?
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:59:11 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
Lizard wrote:
> 3)I would like a notation about 'adding new derived statistics'. For
> example 'Mana' (equal to 2*INT) to power spells, instead of Endurance,
> or 'Humanity' (EGO+PRE) for use in horror or cyberpunk games, as a
> means of adding 'gengre flavor' that is sometimes lacking in Hero.
I think 5th edition is more a revision of form and presentation than rules
content.
I would like to see another edition that includes rules for adding/deleting
characteristics (sort of like--gasp--Fuzion) and revises the powers so they
all work on the same model. I've mentioned this before, but it always bugs
me that Images, Darkness, and Invisibility work differently and that
Darkness has its own rule for area effect rather than just using the Area
Effect Advantage that most of the other Powers use.
Of course, I'm sure I'd be as unhappy with some of these changes as I would
be happy with others. :)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
>> Though I still have trouble figuring out what that would be.
>> In the case of
>> Darkness or Invisibility, it's easy to picture what's going
>> on, but Flash?
>> It might make sense for creatures with totally seperate
>> sensory organs for
>> those, but not with anything like a human with extended vision.
>
>
>I just assumed that no one's Flashing the entire electromagnetic spectrum,
>so if you can make your flash stop at radio waves, why not at infrared or
>ultraviolet light?
>
>I though it would feel sort of like putting on sunglasses (or another sort
>of filter): part of the spectrum disappears.
>
>Anyone else have a better background than I as an English lit person do in
>this?
That doesn't work because most forms of eye don't have seperate receptors
for different frequencies. If I make a real bright flash just in the blue
spectrum, you still can't see the red; your optic nerve is still traumatized
no matter how narrow the frequency.
Like I said, you have to have a totally seperate organ for reception before
it matters.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:13:39 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
> So how do you build one of these characters now? And what's the OIHID
> Limitation supposed to represent exactly?
Can't know about the 5th Edition, but there are examples in the comics
of characters with OIHID with and without Instant Change:
Captain Marvel: Says "Shazam!" and is his spiffy tights, as well as his
powers all turning on. This to me is an example of OIHID and Instant
Change: his clothes change to the super identity, and he can use his
powers. Since he has a Secret ID, and since he probably wants to grow up
eventually (or at least normally), he has to be in his normal ID
sometime. The powers turning on have nothing to do with the Instant
Change and it is not needed, only the fact that his clothes change
instantly causes it to be required.
Iron Man: In many portions of the series, years would go by before he
would be put at disadvantage because it's not his own inherent powers,
but those of the armor, so it's difficult to call it a Focus. At least
once he got it on. Outside of it, he was and is threatened on numerous
occasions, but once inside, the vast majority of the time no one thinks
to get it away from him. In fact, it used to have significant security
to prevent being removed if he was rendered unconscious: OIHID, rather
than Focus, and no Instant Change for most of his carreer because it
takes time to change outfits. And he's too interested in certain
pursuits to wear the thing all the time.
As for the 5th Edition, it sounds like the power is not changing: it
changes your clothes, regardless of whether it is rolled into Transform
(the minimalist in me really likes that) or not. OIHID should not be
changing if it will still exist: it only represents that if you are
caught in some other ID, and you must be caught that way at times for it
to be a limitation, you won't have your powers. The change to IC should
not matter to that, other than to indicate the level of convenience of
changing from one form to the other.
Hmm. Nitpicking coming up. Instant Change is Transform. Transform is an
attack power. Therefore, it can't take a 0 phase action. But it must to
be the same power. I wonder if there is going to be some sort of
advantage that takes a inoccuous power that is normally considered an
attack and makes it into a non-attack power? Or something like that. I
mention this not entirely to nit-pick, but because some rules of that
nature could be useful elsewhere.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:18:24 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
> I just assumed that no one's Flashing the entire electromagnetic spectrum,
> so if you can make your flash stop at radio waves, why not at infrared or
> ultraviolet light?
With the human eye, if its blinded it can't use those other spectrums,
either. That, however, could be considered due to the fact that we can
only see outside that spectrum with artificial aid: those devices
translate the energies we can see into something we can. So, if you
flash our normal sight, you also flash everything else for all intents
and purposes.
So, what you'd really want is a Flash that effects the full
electromagnetic spectrum but only against someone using artificially
enhanced vision or who has something like the normal human eye structure
to see it with, which gets a little wonky. Probably not worth much of a
limitation in most games.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:26:53 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
> Maybe Colossus makes a better example. Certainly Peter has growth when he's
> in his "normal" form, but when he changes to his armored form, he gains
> Armor and maybe some Density Increase, that would limit Only in Hero ID.
Colussus wouldn't have Instant Change: His clothing doesn't change when
he assumes his heroic form.
I also wouldn't generally make his powers OIHID, because it's more a
matter of turning powers on than changing into some other identity.
However, many of his powers might be less points than his Persistent (I
think - it might be only 0 END) Density Increase, so they could get the
Linked limitation.
This one's really a fine line, though: it's probably more cost effective
to have an EC: Metal Body, and have all the powers have OIHID. Which is
still a limitation even though, by special effect, his change to hero ID
is instantaneous because he will spend time outside of it and can be
blindsided.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:04:56 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 01:57 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>I would like to point out that a Flash which, on average does 5 Body, costs
>>100 points in 4th ed as will the 10 Body one under 5th ed.
>>
>
>How's that? 1D6=1 Body on the average, so that should be 50 points in both
>cases.
>
Math error. I was doing this in my head and messed up.
50 points.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:10:13 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 04:06 PM 6/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>
>> Okay, it used to be that if I did 5 Body with my Flash, I took out a spd 5
>> guy for 1 turn, a spd 1 guy for 5 turns, and a spd 10 guy for 1/2 turn.
>> Now, unless I set off my flash on segment 3 through 7, a spd 1 person is
>> completely unaffected.
>
>Actually, he is still affected - he's blind! His DCV drops through the
>floor (what's your DCV against an attack you can't detect?) , he certainly
>won't be aborting to any defensive moves, and he's basically a sitting
>duck.
>
Well, while I agree he is an easy target, he still gets the same number of
actions this turn. If my plan was just to remove him from combat for a
while, I failed.
In my experience, Flash is used mainly like it was a stun-only attack.
Everyone I ever had in the party with Flash had it as an area of effect and
would use it on the bad guys right at the start so that most of them would
just stand there blinking while you took out the first to recover.
Similarly, bad guys used it to dazzle the bank guargd so they could get in
and get out with the money. This was especially useful because a decent
Flash vs a Spd 1 normal left him blind until after the police arrived.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:30:53 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 07:41 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>> >And I guess we can still Limit Flash to work only versus
>> Normal Sight if we
>> >don't want to Flash IR or UV vision as well.
>>
>> Though I still have trouble figuring out what that would be.
>> In the case of
>> Darkness or Invisibility, it's easy to picture what's going
>> on, but Flash?
>> It might make sense for creatures with totally seperate
>> sensory organs for
>> those, but not with anything like a human with extended vision.
>
>
>I just assumed that no one's Flashing the entire electromagnetic spectrum,
>so if you can make your flash stop at radio waves, why not at infrared or
>ultraviolet light?
>
>I though it would feel sort of like putting on sunglasses (or another sort
>of filter): part of the spectrum disappears.
>
>Anyone else have a better background than I as an English lit person do in
>this?
>
>
Sounds very workable. Problem is, most folks don't have seperate sensors
for IR or UV light.
Think of it this way: I falsh a bright yellow flashbulb in your face. Are
you now:
a)unable to see the color yellow
b)unable to see yellow objects or
c)unable to see at all.
If you use your eyes to see and are just able to see into the IR or UV
range, a flash vs normal sight will _logicly_ blind you. It's hard to
imagine a rationalle for why it doesn't.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:47:07 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
At 07:50 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>geoff heald wrote:
>
>> >The Human Torch looks very little like Johnny Storm. Or what
>> about Janet Van
>> >Dyne's Wasp form?
>> >
>>
>> I realize that I'm being pedantic, but Johnny Storm has
>> Public ID at least
>> in part because he looks just like the Human Torch, except
>> that the Human
>> Torch is on fire.
>> And the only costume I've seen for Janet VanDyne as Wasp was after she
>> became a Public ID and it had no covering for her face or head at all.
>> Being smaller was one of her powers, not a disguise of any sort.
>
>I've always assumed "Hero ID" included characters that change forms as well
>as those that change only costumes to assume their heroic personas. I have
>also always thought that having both a Public ID and a Hero ID was
>completely possible, so the way I looked at it was that certainly everyone
>knows that Johnny Storm is the Human Torch, but I thought Johnny way back
>when good only use his fire powers when he was on fire. The "on fire" form I
>assumed was his Hero ID.
>
>
Okay, I see what you are getting at. Johnny Storm would be an EXCELLENT
example of OIHID. That is, he has to "flame on" before he can fly or use
other powers. He'd be a lousy example of Multiform, because the Human
Torch is obviously no different from his normal self except for the being
on fire and having powers bit.
Or maybe this is just Linked. He has to turn on his Flame-Armor before he
can activate any of his other Fire Elemental Control powers.
>Maybe Colossus makes a better example. Certainly Peter has growth when he's
>in his "normal" form, but when he changes to his armored form, he gains
>Armor and maybe some Density Increase, that would limit Only in Hero ID.
>
I'm not sure aboout that. I mean Peter is just really big, and has the
stats to support that. As Colossus, he's even bigger, but again has the
stats to support it. His Str goes up, he gets armor, he picks up the
disadvantages of being a metal man (vulnerable to magnetic attacks).
Sounds a lot like OIHID.
>Of course, I'm admittedly one of those who was confused about Instant Change
>and Hero ID, so we're probably just seeing the situation differently.
>
Aren't we all.
>Maybe 5th Edition explains this all better. What are some other people's
>ideas about what constitutes a "Hero ID"?
>
One can hope.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:59:21 -0300
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Flash
Just an idea... I read something about how illogical it was for a more
dextrous character snap out of a flash faster, and I agree. The new
flash seems to correct this, but now, though how dextrous (fast,
whatever) you are doesn't affect how long it takes you to snap out of
it, it does make it worse for you (in proportion) if you are more
dextrous. True, regardless of SPD you're still affected for the same
time, but you lose more actions if you have a higher SPD. So I don't
believe it's correct to say a higher SPD character is affected the same
as a low SPD one.
Well, the idea I had was, why not base it on REC somehow? You get one
post-12 "for free", which might make you snap out of it in one turn, or
you can take recoveries during your phases, helping you snap out of it
faster (say like rubbing your eyes and blinking, or sneezing and blowing
your nose (for a smell flash), the kinds of things we do IRL when
'flashed'). Of course, now we would need to cound 'stun' instead of
'body' on the dice, and probably (haven't worked it out yet) adjust the
cost of flash... but it might work. That might even fix the 'all or
nothing' problem with flash def.
- --Tonio
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:52:34 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 09:13 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Iron Man: In many portions of the series, years would go by before he
>would be put at disadvantage because it's not his own inherent powers,
>but those of the armor, so it's difficult to call it a Focus. At least
>once he got it on. Outside of it, he was and is threatened on numerous
>occasions, but once inside, the vast majority of the time no one thinks
>to get it away from him. In fact, it used to have significant security
>to prevent being removed if he was rendered unconscious: OIHID, rather
>than Focus, and no Instant Change for most of his carreer because it
>takes time to change outfits. And he's too interested in certain
>pursuits to wear the thing all the time.
>
<picky mode>
Before the 1980's, medical reasons required Tony Stark to wear at least the
Iron Man breastplate at all times, but apparently it was no problem to
conceal under clothes.
</picky mode>
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:55:55 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 09:26 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> Maybe Colossus makes a better example. Certainly Peter has growth when he's
>> in his "normal" form, but when he changes to his armored form, he gains
>> Armor and maybe some Density Increase, that would limit Only in Hero ID.
>
>Colussus wouldn't have Instant Change: His clothing doesn't change when
>he assumes his heroic form.
>
>I also wouldn't generally make his powers OIHID, because it's more a
>matter of turning powers on than changing into some other identity.
>However, many of his powers might be less points than his Persistent (I
>think - it might be only 0 END) Density Increase, so they could get the
>Linked limitation.
>
>This one's really a fine line, though: it's probably more cost effective
>to have an EC: Metal Body, and have all the powers have OIHID. Which is
>still a limitation even though, by special effect, his change to hero ID
>is instantaneous because he will spend time outside of it and can be
>blindsided.
>
During one of those planet sweeping mutant massacrees, Colossus got changed
so that he has to concentrate to remain flesh and would automaticly become
metal if startled.
How to reflect THAT?
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 01:06:31 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Swapping stats
I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
need special dispensation in Hero.
The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
Multipower?
The Beast. Infected with a mutagenic virus, he got very strong and every
time he used his strength he got stronger, but got dumber too. This is
just like above, but permanent.
Any clever ideas on how to construct this?
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:26:27 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: DR Pepper HEroes
Sorry, i have a slight glitch that won't allow me to reply to messages.
Over here we had a couple of DR Pepper knockoffs that aren't around.
DR Wild
Dr Diablo
Actually this is not a bad way to name characters
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Flash
>
>Just an idea... I read something about how illogical it was for a more
>dextrous character snap out of a flash faster, and I agree. The new
>flash seems to correct this, but now, though how dextrous (fast,
>whatever) you are doesn't affect how long it takes you to snap out of
>it, it does make it worse for you (in proportion) if you are more
>dextrous. True, regardless of SPD you're still affected for the same
>time, but you lose more actions if you have a higher SPD. So I don't
>believe it's correct to say a higher SPD character is affected the same
>as a low SPD one.
I don't say he does; I just say I don't see any reason he shouldn't be
effected more. After all, who is effected more by taking enough stun to go
to the recovery per round level? But no one wants to fix that.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:30:06 PDT
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
On Fri, 04 Jun 1999 geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
>During one of those planet sweeping mutant massacrees, Colossus got changed
>so that he has to concentrate to remain flesh and would automaticly become
>metal if startled.
>
>How to reflect THAT?
>
Accidental Change: When Startled, 8- ? It's a little kludgy. Wonder if
you could modify it to include an EGO roll?
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:55:56 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Instant Change
>Miracleman, a sort of British clone of the original Cap, dating to the
50s,
>was originally mostly identical to his American counterpart; when Alan
>Moore revived him in the 80s, it was found that his mortal form, Mickey
>Moran, had had a mindless but powerful clone genetically engineered by a
>secret organization and stored in infraspace. A code phrase would switch
>the location of the two, while transferring Mickey's mind into the
>earthbound body.
>
>Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)
I Loved Miracle Man! I am so sorry the series seems to have petered out.
And yes, I think the Miracle Man/Mike Moran switch is the veryt
definition of "Multiform" I also borrowed the skin field/TK explanation
for his powers from Mircale Man and John Byrne's Superman rewrite and the
FX for some of my characters.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:33:33 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hero Overhaul, Simplification, etc.
In a message dated 6/3/99 6:30:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, puff@netcom.com
writes:
> > >Dave... any news on when that Champions Genre book is coming out?
> >
> > Having already missed my first target date by quite a bit, I don't feel
> that
> > I can say.
>
> Why Dave, as a past professional tech writer I can assure you
> that you're quite allowed to say, even after missing your first target
> date (and second, and third, and... ) :-). Don't let it sweat you;
> creative writing isn't easy.
But don't think that we won't stop harassing you. that's our job...
we want the book. (repeat with hand clapping)... but we're not
putting any pressure on you. :)
andy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
> need special dispensation in Hero.
> The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
> control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
> Multipower?
A INT Drain as a Side Effect to his STR Aid?
> The Beast. Infected with a mutagenic virus, he got very strong and every
> time he used his strength he got stronger, but got dumber too. This is
> just like above, but permanent.
Swapping INT for STR on his character sheet? This one is a bit tough,
since this is long term and not easily expressed via a power construct.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Windows 98, n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit
of competition.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 06:29:37 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 01:06 AM 6/4/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
>need special dispensation in Hero.
I had no clever ideas on how to construct this, but it doesn't seem to be
necessary.
>The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
>control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
>Multipower?
I'd just give him a Psych Lim to reflect the loss of control, and allow him
to have the upper levels of STR (say, the upper 15 points, broken into
groups of 5) with the Limitations: Only when angered -0, Only when enraged
- -1/4 and Only when Seriously Hacked Off -1/2. I started with a value of -0
because this isn't all that different from ordinary Pushing, except that in
the example I gave I used increments of 5 rather than 10.
>The Beast. Infected with a mutagenic virus, he got very strong and every
>time he used his strength he got stronger, but got dumber too. This is
>just like above, but permanent.
When you cash in XPTS to raise his STR permanently, lower his INT at the
same time. Under these circumstances, I'd allow you to recover the
character points from the lost INT and spend them on something else.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:10:38 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>
> The way I understand it, the latter two will be handled with Transform,
> while the first will have some modifier (an Adder, perhaps?) to Multiform.
Transform? TRANSFORM? <involuntary shudder>
I hope you meant Shapeshift.
- --
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:34:23 -0500
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>
> > I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
> > need special dispensation in Hero.
> > The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
> > control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
> > Multipower?
>
> A INT Drain as a Side Effect to his STR Aid?
This is the way I have seen it done. I think it is the best way to do it is make
the person create both powers giving the INT drain limitations saying that it is
only usable when the STR Aid is used. Then give the STR Aid a major limitation
for the INT drain.
This is one problem I have had with Champions in the past. Any power that causes
harm to the character actually ends up costing the character points. Sometimes
the power has an advantage, but in this case the INT drain is useless (only
usable on self -???). A house rule I have used to help solve this is I let the
player take the cost of the power off of his disadvantage total. Therefore if
the INT drain cost 15 real points then he would only have to come up with 135pts
worth of disadvantages in a 100+150 campaign.
> > The Beast. Infected with a mutagenic virus, he got very strong and every
> > time he used his strength he got stronger, but got dumber too. This is
> > just like above, but permanent.
>
> Swapping INT for STR on his character sheet? This one is a bit tough,
> since this is long term and not easily expressed via a power construct.
Same as above, but move the time way down on the chart..say to 100 years...in
effect it is permanent. An interesting character would be to make the BEAST get
REALLY dumb and REALLY strong for a short period of time. Then when it wears off
he is not as smart as he was before the short peroid of total idoicy. Of course
he would be stronger, but not as strong as he was for the short period of time.
To do this I would just make two sets of powers up the same as above. One set
would have a short time peroid on the drains and aids the other, smaller
powers, would have a long time on the drains and aids.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 06:49:41 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 01:06 AM 6/4/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
>need special dispensation in Hero.
>The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
>control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
>Multipower?
That's how I'd do it, but NCC (or at least LCC) on the Multipower (at
half value to reflect that it only affects the Pool control, and not the
individual slots).
>The Beast. Infected with a mutagenic virus, he got very strong and every
>time he used his strength he got stronger, but got dumber too. This is
>just like above, but permanent.
Not sure on this one. If it was a one-time switch, it'd be easy; it's a
Radiation Accident. But each time he uses his STR? I don't know.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 06:45:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 08:10 AM 6/4/1999 -0700, Robert A. West wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> The way I understand it, the latter two will be handled with Transform,
>> while the first will have some modifier (an Adder, perhaps?) to Multiform.
>
>Transform? TRANSFORM? <involuntary shudder>
>
>I hope you meant Shapeshift.
As Steve's original post pointed out, Instant Change (the changing of
one's clothing instantly) has been rolled into Transform, not Shapeshift.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:53:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, bobby farris wrote:
> > > I've just thought of two Marvel Heros who had a power construct that would
> > > need special dispensation in Hero.
> > > The Hulk: The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But he loses rational
> > > control. So he's basicly trading Int for Str. What do I do, put them in a
> > > Multipower?
> >
> > A INT Drain as a Side Effect to his STR Aid?
>
> This is the way I have seen it done. I think it is the best way to do it is make
> the person create both powers giving the INT drain limitations saying that it is
> only usable when the STR Aid is used. Then give the STR Aid a major limitation
> for the INT drain.
>
> This is one problem I have had with Champions in the past. Any power that causes
> harm to the character actually ends up costing the character points. Sometimes
> the power has an advantage, but in this case the INT drain is useless (only
> usable on self -???). A house rule I have used to help solve this is I let the
> player take the cost of the power off of his disadvantage total. Therefore if
> the INT drain cost 15 real points then he would only have to come up with 135pts
> worth of disadvantages in a 100+150 campaign.
Note I said "Side Effect". In this case use the Side Effect limitation to
lower the cost of the STR Aid in the first place. I've talked to Steve L
and I understand that 5th Ed Side Effects will go into greater detail on
how to do this.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"You are about 10% as cool as you think you are...
and if you live to be a million years old,
you will *never* be as cool as Chuck Berry."
Henry Rollins
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #375
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:11 PM