Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 383
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 7:33 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #383
champ-l-digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 383
In this issue:
Re: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Re: Cost of Flash
Re: Instant Change
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
RE: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
Re: Instant Change
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
Re: The Mummy
Re: Speed is SPD isnt it?
Re: Instant Change
CHAR: Cecil, The Dream Master
Re: Instant Change
Re: Instant Change
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
CHAR: Chthonian (fwd)
Re: Instant Change
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
Re: The Mummy
Re: The Mummy
Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09 Jun 1999 14:30:11 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Wed, 09 Jun 1999
| There is that. But is has been confirmed as official, so perhaps we could
| look at it from that POV>
It ain't official until it is in print and we see exactly what is printed.
[...]
| I disagree. There is nothing different between using Transfrom to turn a
| set of PJs into plate armor and using Transform to turn a stick into a
| sword.
I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3XrKzgl+vIlSVSNkRAvr2AJ963m+jXN5K3Qd8JO4tZ6Ig734m7wCgtniT
7d62d5aabG2lkd4oUsTkkys=
=10AX
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:38:16 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
>I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
>Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
>with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
Both are legal under 4th ed. Transformation. As GM, I doubt that I would
allow either one, but I'm sure there are campaigns where I would.
As a hypothetical 5th edition Transformation, Transforming clothing to a
specific power armor suit which the character has paid points for does not
seem unreasonable.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:42:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
On 9 Jun 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> | There is that. But is has been confirmed as official, so perhaps we could
> | look at it from that POV>
>
> It ain't official until it is in print and we see exactly what is printed.
Right, I can see that was pointless.
> | I disagree. There is nothing different between using Transfrom to turn a
> | set of PJs into plate armor and using Transform to turn a stick into a
> | sword.
>
> I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
> Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
> with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
Okay, allow me to make a comment. Your examples are such that you will
almost certainly get a yes (I have a problem) from me, meaning that you
win. If I say no, you tell me I'm an idiot and you win. So, your staw man
is a bait I won't rise to. I will state that you nicely snipped out the
rest of my comments where I stated that Transformation may not be the
power to use regrading these concepts, which makes my position looks less
solid than it should. So, I'm not even going to bother.
Now, if Transformation can't be used to turn a stick into a sword, then
what do you sue Transform for? And, what power would be used to turn a
stick into a sword?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Having term limitations is like having freedom of the press, but
only for ten pages."
Frank Benlin, _The Daily Feed_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:28:11 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Cost of Flash
At 11:38 AM 6/9/1999 -0600, Kevin Criscione wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> Not quite right; Flash is now 5 points/die. So the SPD 6 characters
>>will end up recovering the same from a Hero5 12d6 Flash (average 12
>>segments) as from a Hero4 6d6 Flash (average 6 Phases, which for them is 12
>>segments). Characters with greater than 6 SPD will end up being Flashed
>>under Hero5 for longer than they would have been under Hero4 (12 segments
>>vs 6 segments, respectively).
>
> Since the cost of Flash is changing, has anyone suggested that Flash cost
>15 points per d6, but you count the pips as segments of flash, rather than
>counting the "body" done? {It does make the counting easier. It also makes
>the power slightly more powerful, given the average damage and the minimum
>of 1 segment.)
I don't think it was suggested, and I certainly don't think that the
idea is without merit. However, it is now too late; the final draft has
already been turned in, the comments phase of the writing being over long
ago, and it's in the final stages of production.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:31:36 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 01:05 PM 6/9/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Tue, 08 Jun 1999
>[...]
>| I don't see how that answers the question. Do pajamas have powers that
>| a power suit would not?
>
>Maybe (depends on how silly the campaign is). But a power suit does have
>powers that pajamas do not. You cannot use Transformation on your pajamas
>to turn them into, say, Armor that provides you with DEF. You can use
>Instant Change to change your pajamas into your suit of armor, but you
>cannot use Transformation to do it.
While arguably true, this was not the question. The question was about
turning a power suit into pajamas, not the other way around.
(FWIW I once allowed a magical prankster character -- a literal pixie,
it so happened -- with Instant Change, Usable Against Others at Range. The
player thought it'd be funny to zap Armadillo with it, turning the poor
guy's armor into a tutu. That got a good chuckle from all present, but
that turned into guffaws when Armadillo blasted the pixie with his tutu's
weapon systems. That became the most powerful tutu in the world....)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:38:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 01:16 PM 6/9/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Tue, 08 Jun 1999
>| But I /have/ paid character points for it. I paid for a Transfer from
>| END to END Reserve.
>
>There is a "right way" to charge an END Reserve: buying Recovery for it.
It occurs to me that the "right way" to the above would be to buy REC
for the END Reserve, but make the REC cost personal END.
>| Does this mean that I could not use an HKA on myself? Is seppuku
>| impossible in Ninja Hero? If you can normally use attack powers on
>| yourself, why is Transfer an exception?
>
>There is no such thing as an "attack power". And I find the idea of
>suicide as anything but "normal".
Ignoring the ridiculousness of the first remark for the time being, I've
seen plenty of cases in fiction (movies, TV, novels) where characters had
reason to turn a weapon on themselves. One of the clearest examples is a
recent story where a "loose cannon" cop shot herself so she'd have an
injury to take to an unlicensed back-alley surgeon that she and her partner
were looking for. Then there are the various Klingon self-mutilation
rites, and similar rites in other fictional and even real-world
religions....
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:38:53 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 01:11 PM 6/9/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Tue, 08 Jun 1999
>| Does using Aid on oneself, then, not require an attack roll and get to
>| be used as a zero-phase action? Or how does that work, in your campaign?
>
>That is just about the size of it.
>
>Now you begin to see why I believe Aid should cost much more than it does.
Well, word is that the price is about to double.
Personally, I think that a character should be able to use any attack
power on himself, without requiring an Attack Roll but taking up a attack
half phase. But that's just me; I have no idea if or how that's going to
be addressed in the new rulebook.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:50:29 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Instant Change
Mr. Rat,
Have you been on vacation? It's just occurred to me that the list has been
unusually noncombative and free of ridiculous examples lately.
Obviously, the Hero system has loopholes that can be exploited by abusive
players. Any GM that lets a PC take a free suit of indestructible armour is
a fool. In my experience, Transform is best used as justification for buying
another power in the interest of maintaining concept and special effect. If
you presented me with a write-up that included a transform that granted free
abilities, I'd mock you without mercy or compassion.
Have a yummy day,
BRI
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Stainless Steel Rat [mailto:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 2:30 PM
] To: Champions
] Subject: Re: Instant Change
]
]
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
] Hash: SHA1
]
] * Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Wed, 09 Jun 1999
] | There is that. But is has been confirmed as official, so
] perhaps we could
] | look at it from that POV>
]
] It ain't official until it is in print and we see exactly
] what is printed.
]
] [...]
] | I disagree. There is nothing different between using
] Transfrom to turn a
] | set of PJs into plate armor and using Transform to turn a
] stick into a
] | sword.
]
] I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
] Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into
] a 4D6 HKA
] with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
] Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
] Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
]
] iD8DBQE3XrKzgl+vIlSVSNkRAvr2AJ963m+jXN5K3Qd8JO4tZ6Ig734m7wCgtniT
] 7d62d5aabG2lkd4oUsTkkys=
] =10AX
] -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
]
] --
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball
] may suddenly
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:04:49 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Instant Change
In a message dated 6/9/99 2:38:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, geoff@igcn.com
writes:
> >I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
> >Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
> >with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
>
> Both are legal under 4th ed. Transformation. As GM, I doubt that I would
> allow either one, but I'm sure there are campaigns where I would.
>
> As a hypothetical 5th edition Transformation, Transforming clothing to a
> specific power armor suit which the character has paid points for does not
> seem unreasonable.
Problems with the initial question:
1) using a power to simulate another power is illegal. and, at
its heart, isn't that what you are doing?
2) While it might be legal (see above), as a GM, just disallow the power.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:08:51 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
> 1) using a power to simulate another power is illegal. and, at
> its heart, isn't that what you are doing?
Just out of curiosity, where in the book does it actually say that? I know
that comment gets bandied about and is in the FAQ, but where is it in the
book?
And even if it is in the book, there have been many a time I've seen this
idea taken to extremes where it doesn't fit any longer. I thought the rule
was to prevent abuses, like replacing a more expensive ability with a
cheaper alternative, not as an absolute rule: sometimes a different power
does the job better because of the mechanics of it.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:28:06 -0500
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: Instant Change
>Mr. Rat,
>
>Have you been on vacation? It's just occurred to me that the list has been
>unusually noncombative and free of ridiculous examples lately.
>
>Obviously, the Hero system has loopholes that can be exploited by abusive
>players. Any GM that lets a PC take a free suit of indestructible armour is
>a fool. In my experience, Transform is best used as justification for
buying
>another power in the interest of maintaining concept and special effect. If
>you presented me with a write-up that included a transform that granted
free
>abilities, I'd mock you without mercy or compassion.
>
>Have a yummy day,
>BRI
The sort of thing you refer to here is precisely the reason Rat has been in
my killfile for months and will remain there.
- -Logan
- ---------------------------------------------------
"You can never forget the personal. Or else what are you fighting FOR?
The person who fights only for the cause is always in danger of becoming
a fanatic, or of losing any reason for fighting at all. But the person
who fights for his family and his home fights just long enough to win,
without losing himself to the violence or the cause."
Ambassador Jeffrey Sinclair
Babylon 5
"To Dream in the City of Sorrows"
- ---------------------------------------------------
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:33:25 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
In a message dated 6/9/99, 4:18:37 PM, james@javaman.to writes:
<<> 1) using a power to simulate another power is illegal. and, at
> its heart, isn't that what you are doing?
Just out of curiosity, where in the book does it actually say that? I know
that comment gets bandied about and is in the FAQ, but where is it in the
book?
And even if it is in the book, there have been many a time I've seen this
idea taken to extremes where it doesn't fit any longer. I thought the rule
was to prevent abuses, like replacing a more expensive ability with a
cheaper alternative, not as an absolute rule: sometimes a different power
does the job better because of the mechanics of it.>>
I'm at work and don't have my book infront of me... so I cannot tell you what
page to look on. but i can tell you this.
using a 1d6 transformation to turn my blue oxford shirt in to 100pd/ed chain
mail is an abuse ... perhaps even rules raping gone to seed. And that was my
point.
There are few rules in the book that are absolute. I believe that most
everything
is up to the GM.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:44:50 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: The Mummy
>> Why not?
>
>Uhm... 'cause I've got a mess of other projects I'm working on? And
>having talked to Steve L, I think some of his powers will work better
>under 5th Edition?
>
>I'll keep him in mind though.
>
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
>http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
Please do. I enjoy your interpretations of characters in HSR form
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:51:00 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Speed is SPD isnt it?
At 01:26 AM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>geoff heald wrote:
>
>> While I cannot speak for others, when _I_ say Flash penalizes high SPD
>> characters more and low SPD characters less, I mean "than it used to."
>> The numbers I have posted support that point, whether you measure the
>> penalty in lost phases or time at reduced DCV, low SPD characters will
>> recover much more quickly that they would under 4th edition and high SPD
>> characters will not.
>
> True, low speed characters will recover quicker than they have before,
>three or four times quicker. I am ignoring speed 2 NPC's because if
>they only have 2 speed, they are not much better than cannon fodder,
>anyway. Speed 6 characters recover twice as fast, hardly what could be
>considered being ripped off. The only ones that wont have any change
>are those mythical 12 speed characters that you keep hearing about
>--
>Rick Holding
>
Speed 2 cannon fodder is precicely what I'm talking about. Under 4th ed, a
5d6 AOE Flash would remove a group of SPD 1 guards from the fight for 5
turns, on average. That leaves plenty of time for the heros to fight the
superbeings present and maybe even make their escape ("The Shadow was here?
Why didn't you arrest him?" "All I know is there was this bright flash of
light, and when I came to, the bank robbers were tied up over there.").
Under 5th ed, the corresponding 10d6 AOE Flash will only stop the guards
for 1 turn.
This means that the tactical uses of Flash have changed, and it is no
longer a fairly cheap way of removing all normals from a fight without
risking them bodily harm.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:04:59 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 01:05 PM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>[...]
>| I don't see how that answers the question. Do pajamas have powers that
>| a power suit would not?
>
>Maybe (depends on how silly the campaign is). But a power suit does have
>powers that pajamas do not. You cannot use Transformation on your pajamas
>to turn them into, say, Armor that provides you with DEF. You can use
>Instant Change to change your pajamas into your suit of armor, but you
>cannot use Transformation to do it.
Instant Change
A character with this Special Power can instantly change from one
identity to another and back again. The character can change into one other
set of clothes for 5 Character Points. The character can change into any
set of clothes he wants for 10 Character Points. This is a useful Power for
getting a character with a Secret ID into the fight without an awkward
search for a telephone booth or a restroom.
So if you use Instant Change to change into a suit of armor, you probably
better have Armor (OIHID) or it won't do you any good. All Instant Change
Changes is your clothes. Instant Change into Iron Man's armor does NOT
automaticly give you all of its powers and abilities. If it did, I've got
some really abusive characters to post.
In a heroic campaign where characters do not always pay points for their
stuff, I might allow Instant Change into Armor, but in a superhero campaign
you pay for your powers.
In both cases, Transform works just as well, and exactly the same.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: CHAR: Cecil, The Dream Master
THE DREAM MASTER
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
6 STR -4 10- 100kg; 1d6+1
14 DEX 12 12- OCV: 5 / DCV: 5
13 CON 6 12-
10 BODY 0 11-
11 INT 1 11- PER Roll 11-
18 EGO 16 13- ECV: 6
13 PRE 3 12- PRE Attack: 2.5d6
12 COM 1 11-
5 PD 4 Total: PD 10 / PDr 5*
4 ED 1 Total: ED 9 / EDr 5*
4 SPD 16 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
6 REC 4
23 END 0
29 STUN 10
(*) Modified below w/ Activation roll of 15-. Otherwise, use base PD &
ED.
Total Characteristics Cost: 70
Movement:
Running: 6" / 12"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Cost Powers & Skills
Skills:
2 AK: Dreamscape 11-
2 PS: Kid 11-
5 +1 OCV with Wand Multipower
Scepter:
25 Multipower: 50 point pool OAF: Scepter (-1)
2u 4d6 HA, Effects Physical World (+2), Affects Desolid (+1/2),
Penetrating (+1/2); STR Does Not Add (-1/2), OAF: Scepter (-1)
2u 4d6 Dispel Summon, Effects Physical World (+2),
Affects Desolid (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2); OAF: Scepter (-1)
2u 3d6 EGO Attack; OAF (-1), 4 Recoverable Charges (-1/2)
2u XDM: Nightmare Dimension, UAO (+1), Ranged (+1/2); OAF: Secpter
(-1), 4 Recoverable Charges (-1/2)
2u Summon 80 point Dream Creatures (+1/4); OAF: Scepter (-1), 4
Recoverable Charges (-1/2)
2u 4d6 Mind Control, Effects Physical World (+2), No Verbal Component
(+1/2); One Command: "Sleep" (-1/2), OAF: Scepter (-1), 4
Recoverable Charges (-1/2)
Cape:
9 EC: Flight Powers; IIF: Cape (-1/4)
13 Flight: 6", x4 NCM, 0 END (+1/2); IIF: Cape (-1/4)
9 FTL: 64 Light Years/year; IIF: Cape (-1/4)
Pajammas:
20 Resistant Physical & Energy Damage Reduction: 25%; OIHID: Pajammas
(-1/4), Activation: 15- (-1/4)
10 +5/+5 Armor; OIHID: Pajammas (-1/4), Activation: 15- (-1/4)
Dream Powers:
23 EC: Dream Form Powers: Only work while asleep or unconcious,
powers cease to function if awakened (-3/4);
Individual powers can not be voluntarily shut off to interact with
the corporeal world unless the character awakens (-1/4)
15a Desolid: Physical and Mental, 0 END (+1/2), Persistant
(+1/2); Leave Physical Body Behind (-1), Dreamform Disads (-1)
20b Invisibility: All normal senses and Mind Scan, 0 END (+1/2),
Persistant (+1/2); Only works on Dream Form, not Physical Body
Left Behind (-1/4), Dreamform Disads (-1)
15c Extra Dimensional Movement: Any Personal Dream Dimsnsion (30); 0
END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/2), Trigger: When asleep (+1/4), UBO at
Range (+3/4); Leave Physical Body Behind (-1), Dreamform Disads (-1)
Total Powers & Skills Cost 180
Total Character Cost 250
100+ Disadvantages
15 Enraged: When the lives of innocents are threatened (Common, 14-,
8- to recover)
20 DNPC: Any Dreamers he encounters (Normal, 14-)
20 Distinctive Features: Young child in pajammas and a cape carrying
a wand (Not Concealable, Major Reaction)
20 Hunted: Nightmares (More Powerful, Limited Geographic Area, 14-)
20 Normal Characterristic Maxima
20 Physical Limitation: Age stymies character socially (PRE rolls),
legally, and physically (Frequent, Fully)
10 Physical Limitation: Sucessful flashes wake character up
(Infrequent, Greatly)
15 Secret ID: Cecil Leapman
10 Vulnerability: effect EGO and BECV attacks (x1.5) (Uncommon Group)
Experience 0
Total Disadvantage Points: 150
Designers Notes:
I thought it would be fun to make a charcater with powers he would
get from his pajammas.
All of his Foci appear in his "Dream Form" but have mundane
equivalents.
Power Notes:
His wand powers are primarily used in his Desolid Dream Form.
He takes great joy in striking unwary opponents (he like to call
it "bopping") while Desolid and Invisible, but strikes not to harm so much
as to distract.
His Dispel Summon is used to Dispel Nightmares that may enter the
physical, corporeal relam through unknown means.
His EGO Attack is only used against Nightmares or Dreamers, since
he rarely has his wand in his corporeal form.
If he wishes, he can banish Nightmares, Dream Creatures, or
Dreamers to the Nightmare Dimension, which is the collective conciousness
of Nightmares. A very, very scary place.
He can also summon Dream Creatures, which include fluffy Cloud
Bunnies, Animated Toys, Gingerbread Men, and all sorts of unlikely and
weird animals. Most are content playing and dancing around, and very few
are violent (though, often times, mischevious). Few may be used for
certain functional purposes.
The Mind Control is often used to induce sleep, and then Cecil can
enter that person's own Personal Dream Dimension.
With experience, Cecil will develop other powers, like Mental
Illusions, so he may actually induce lucid dreams.
Cecil's Cape and Pajamas were enchanted by the Princess of Dreams.
The Pajammas grant him a great resistance to injury (but do not protect
his head). The Cape allows him to fly (and in many Dream Dimensions
[which lack atmosphere] travel past the speed of light).
Cecil's Dream Form Powers only function when asleep or unconcious.
If someone wakes his corporeal body up, he instantly disappears from what
ever location he is at and reappears in his normal body.
Cecil can't voluntarily shut his powers off. Once activated,
Cecil is stuck in Dream Form, even if Desolid and right beside himself, he
would be hard pressed to wake himself up if he were, say, surrounded by
fire in a burning building.
Cecil is either Desolid and Invisible while leaving his body, or
in a Dream Dimension. Each person sleeping has his or her own Dream
Dimsnsion. Cecil can enter those dreams if he sleeps beside that person
and they wish him to enter.
Description:
Cecil is your standard eight year old child.
Cecil loves to sleep. He can often be seen with his footie
pajammas on and a bed sheet tied around his neck. He also carries a
scepter.
Cecil has the ability to enter the Dream Scape. The Dream Scape
is a realm made up of dreams. Each person has their own facet of the
Dream Scape. Recently, Cecil was approached by the Princess of Dreams in
a desperate plea to save the Land of Dreams from some unknown evil from
the Land of Nightmares. She enchanted Cecil's blanket and gave him a
scepter and dubbed Cecil her champion- The Master of Dreams.
Every night, Cecil fights Nightmares and helps Dreamers.
Additional Notes:
Depending on your campagin, Cecil could be a powerful mutant whose
abilities actually construct these relsm from subconcious energies-
meaning the Foci are merely that: Foci. The Princess, Nightmares, and
Dimensions are all parts of Cecil's and the collective subconcious.
Disadvantages Notes:
Cecil is a very heroic child. He will risk himself courageously
to protect any innocent. He also feels responsible to protect any
Dreamers he encounters.
As a Superhero, even among other Superheroes, he stands out. He's
a young child, which some find silly or amusing. Others may be horrified
that an eight year old is fighting crime. Cecil can not hide the fact
that he is young, and is always treated "like a child." This occasionally
causes him some trouble, as he can't get into bars, can rarely intimidate
others, and still thinks a bit like a "normal" kid. If his parents were
to find out that the Dream Child was Cecil, they would try their best to
get him "cured." There is also the everpresent chance of child
exploitation by villian groups. Because he is young, Cecil mind is very
simple (thus the additional effect from EGO based and BECV attacks).
Cecil is easily startled by loud noises. Any power that Flashes,
or loud noise, either by his resting body, or in his Dream Form, makes him
wake up.
Nightmares are continually chasing Cecil, and they are fated to
clash.
(Cecil, the Dream Master created by Jason Sullivan, character sheet
created by Michael Surbrook)
- --
This character is dedicated to Stainless Steel Rat, who has always
made me rethink the HERO system-- and whose posts inspired me to make a
hero that wears pajammas other than Forebrush Man.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:02:53 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 02:30 PM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Wed, 09 Jun 1999
>| There is that. But is has been confirmed as official, so perhaps we could
>| look at it from that POV>
>
>It ain't official until it is in print and we see exactly what is printed.
>
>[...]
>| I disagree. There is nothing different between using Transfrom to turn a
>| set of PJs into plate armor and using Transform to turn a stick into a
>| sword.
>
>I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
>Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
>with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
if one is valid, the other must be.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:05:21 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change
At 02:38 PM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>I use my 1D6 Transformation to turn my pajamas into a suit of 100 DEF
>>Armor. I use my other 1D6 Transformation to turn a twig into a 4D6 HKA
>>with 0 END Cost. And you have no problem with either of these?
>
>Both are legal under 4th ed. Transformation. As GM, I doubt that I would
>allow either one, but I'm sure there are campaigns where I would.
>
Which is why Transform has a Stop sign next to it.
>As a hypothetical 5th edition Transformation, Transforming clothing to a
>specific power armor suit which the character has paid points for does not
>seem unreasonable.
Here, here.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:09:47 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
At 04:33 PM 6/9/1999 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 6/9/99, 4:18:37 PM, james@javaman.to writes:
><<> 1) using a power to simulate another power is illegal. and, at
>> its heart, isn't that what you are doing?
>
>Just out of curiosity, where in the book does it actually say that? I know
>that comment gets bandied about and is in the FAQ, but where is it in the
>book?
>
>And even if it is in the book, there have been many a time I've seen this
>idea taken to extremes where it doesn't fit any longer. I thought the rule
>was to prevent abuses, like replacing a more expensive ability with a
>cheaper alternative, not as an absolute rule: sometimes a different power
>does the job better because of the mechanics of it.>>
>
>I'm at work and don't have my book infront of me... so I cannot tell you what
>page to look on. but i can tell you this.
>
>using a 1d6 transformation to turn my blue oxford shirt in to 100pd/ed chain
>mail is an abuse ... perhaps even rules raping gone to seed. And that was my
>point.
This isn't using one Power to simulate another, but rather using one
Power to give another one for free.
The Hero System has long had at least one Power that can be used to
simulate another as part of its basic description: Telekinesis, as written,
provides an Energy Blast for free (this being a large part of the excuse
for making it as expensive per STR as it is).
>There are few rules in the book that are absolute. I believe that most
>everything
>is up to the GM.
Yes, quite. In fact, I'd say that this is the one absolute rule that is
a constant throughout all RPG systems.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: CHAR: Chthonian (fwd)
>21 Summon Earthquakes: TK: 10 STR, AoE: Radius x16 (+2),
> Personal Immunity (+1/4), 1/2 END (+1/4), No Range (-1/2), Only
> affects things in or on the ground (-1/2), Only can be used to
> simulate the effects of an earthquake (-1), END 2
Isn't it somewhat redundant to have: Only affects things in or on
the ground (-1/2) and Only can be used to simulate the effects of an
earthquake (-1), since Earthquakes only Affect things in or on the Ground?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Instant Change
>Problems with the initial question:
>1) using a power to simulate another power is illegal. and, at
>its heart, isn't that what you are doing?
I have to debate this point as always; it may be illegal to use one power to
precisely copy another power in the effect sense, but there are plenty of
cases where it's not only legitimate, but proper to buy something called
'invisibilitily' with a power other than the one called Invisibility. I
realize this wasn't your point, but I've seen a lot of pointless resistance
to power constructs for no reason other than someone was using, for example,
Images to produce an invisibility effect that was different in mechanical
effect than the power Invisibility would have been.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:35:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
> >There are few rules in the book that are absolute. I believe that most
> >everything
> >is up to the GM.
>
> Yes, quite. In fact, I'd say that this is the one absolute rule that is
> a constant throughout all RPG systems.
With the oft-noted exception of _The World of Synnibar_, in which the GM
(or whatever they call him) has to stick to the rules, as well as his plot
notes, or the players can call him on it and get great rewards.
But that's off-topic.
To get back to the point, I can, right off hand, think of one instance
in the BBB where it mentions that a power can not be used for effects
of other powers, this being Change Environment.
Other than specific cases like this, I can't think of any outright
prohibitions.
- -Ben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:59:19 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
> using a 1d6 transformation to turn my blue oxford shirt in to 100pd/ed
chain
> mail is an abuse ... perhaps even rules raping gone to seed. And that was
my
> point.
Well, of course. This was a proper use of that rule, whether it is in or out
of the book. But I have also seen it quoted for things that are much more
reasonable in order to disallow them.
That's why I changed the subject line, you must understand: I was not
arguing that point, or even continuing the discussion about Transforms. The
thread simply reminded me of something I wanted to bring up.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:09:32 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
> With the oft-noted exception of _The World of Synnibar_, in which the GM
> But that's off-topic.
Oft-noted? Gads, I'm out of touch. Could someone please send me a bit of
information about this off-list?
> To get back to the point, I can, right off hand, think of one instance
> in the BBB where it mentions that a power can not be used for effects
> of other powers, this being Change Environment.
This is true, though it sounds like CE is undergoing a major overhaul in the
next edition: it might end up being like Transform, covering a variety of
effects, and probably just as despised for it. Hopefully not that last.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 18:26:57 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com>
Subject: Re: The Mummy
"Daniel P. Pawtowski" wrote:
> >
> > Our Hero was a ton of points too though
> >
> So... just why _did_ his player decide to buy "Fastdraw: Housecat"? :-)
And how hard did his GM have to work to come up with a way to make the skill
useful??
;)
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:19:33 -0400
From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman)
Subject: Re: The Mummy
At 8:56 AM 6/9/99, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Daniel P. Pawtowski wrote:
>> > Our Hero was a ton of points too though
>> So... just why _did_ his player decide to buy "Fastdraw: Housecat"? :-)
Another scene from that movie inspired me to take the "Hurl Inanimate
Object with Panache" skill for my pulp hero. :)
yours,
- -J
"So tell me again why he took the eyes from the nearsighted guy..."
- ---
jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life)
werther@hilander.com (play)
jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Different Powers, same effects [was Instant Change]
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
> > To get back to the point, I can, right off hand, think of one instance
> > in the BBB where it mentions that a power can not be used for effects
> > of other powers, this being Change Environment.
>
> This is true, though it sounds like CE is undergoing a major overhaul in the
> next edition: it might end up being like Transform, covering a variety of
> effects, and probably just as despised for it. Hopefully not that last.
Maybe, maybe not. no more than it's despised currently for having no
significant game effect no matter what you do with it.
- -Ben
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #383
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:12 PM